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Britain Advises Against Vista, Office 2007 for Schools
An anonymous reader writes "The British government's educational IT authority has issued a report advising schools in the country not to upgrade their classroom or office systems to Windows Vista or Office 2007. According to this InformationWeek story, the British Educational Communications and Technology Agency says costs for Vista and Office 2007 'are significant and the benefits remain unclear.' Instead, Becta is advising British schools to take a long look at Linux and open source suites like OpenOffice.org."
I guess that they gonna say that Britain has Weapons of Mass destruction very soon...
This was not done in a vacuum but because of hard work. Well done to the Open Rights Group, UKUUG, Dr John Pugh MP, FSFE, the LUGs and everyone else who has been trying to get Becta and the government to know that there are alternatives to Microsoft.
My little Linux and tech blog
Sounds like they are negotiation with Microsoft for cheaper licenses
The head of IT at my sons school (here in the UK) recently told me of their irritation at being told they had to use Microsoft only software for their network and teaching. The result was a network that was a nightmare to keep secure (you try and keeping hundreds of enthusiastic kids from finding ways round microsoft security), and poor quality teaching tools. Had he had his way there would be a linux sever running the network and email, XP classroom machines (not linux just yet), openoffice, and python in the programming classes.
As it is they have windows server, Exchange, MSoffice, Dreamweaver (after a successful revolt against frontpage), and VB.
I've started teaching my kid myself....
In a related story, an agency of Her Majesty's Government advised against poking a sharp stick into one's eye.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
PWNED!
Get your PostgreSQL here: http://www.commandprompt.com/
Shame my school is so bloody useless and has an IT department so incompetent it is painful.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Having used both Office and OpenOffice.org extensively, I'm not really convinced that OO.o is really superior. Now, it is of course better in that it's open source, and it uses openly-documented file formats. But the user experience of OO.o is still lacking in many respects. Even on fast systems, it's slow and bloated.
I think it would be better to teach these children how to use LaTeX. It offers the openness of OO.o, but allows for the preparation of much more professional documentation. It would also be very useful for those students who wish to pursue university studies, as most math, science and engineering papers are formatted using LaTeX.
The interesting thing is the timing.
Every single technology-aware teacher in Britain is at the BETT show at the moment - the trade fair for the educational IT industry. And the Eee PC is the star of the show. Rebadged it may be under various resellers' names, but it's the same old Linux-based Eee PC, complete with OpenOffice and - more significantly - 802.11g and Firefox, ready to access any number of educational webapps. Of course, it doesn't hurt that in a time of reduced Government spending, the Eee is also ridiculously cheap.
So along comes Becta and says "actually, you should look at free alternatives to Windows/Office". When they said that three years ago, everyone went "uh-huh" and carried on buying what they'd always bought. This time, there's an alternative. This is the first serious challenge to Microsoft in UK schools since the demise of the Acorn Archimedes.
BTW here is the report in glorious PDF:
http://learningandskills.becta.org.uk/download.cfm?resID=35275
My little Linux and tech blog
Common sense people! That's exactly what my school does, right down to the openoffice.
The actual report
The cost of vista and office 2007 are pretty significant without much benefit over what's already out there. Vista doesn't have any extras that I imagine would be beneficial for an education environment unless they're running some really old crap. If they switch to something like open office, which is a fine word processor, their students can work on their documents at home for free without buying MS Office.
A Government department suggesting schools investigate the use of Linux? That's rather encouraging and should be seen as significant.
So what? People like me have been saying the same thing for a long time. Schools are too ignorant to listen to nonsense like that though, after all an UPgrade is an improvement right?
HA!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The UK Newspaper the Guardian says more than a million kids in the UK don't have access to a computer at home.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7210652,00.html/
The supported use of FOSS software could make a radical difference. Recycled hardware running free operating systems and applications could reduce the cost of student PCs to almost zero, and truly put computing within the reach of every child.
I have several computers at home that my children use for school-related activities. TOTAL cost of each (hardware, OS, office suite, image manipulation) is that of the monitor. These boxes are absolutely fit for purpose, and would otherwise be landfill.
My children regard computing at home as a commodity, which funnily enough, it is, if you step outside the wierd monopolistic force-bubble that is our educational computing practice.
The only excuse for the situation in our schools, the only reasoning that could possibly hold water, is 'They should use what they'll use at work'. This is short, snappy, and is accepted easily by those only peripherally involved in the question. I don't think it bears examination though. Some thoughts:
A trite one:
I don't believe any otherwise suitable candidate has ever been passed over because they were trained on the wrong spreadsheet, but if they were they should count themselves lucky to have escaped. They are more likely to be passed over if they didn't do well on the coursework because their parents couldn't afford to give them access to a PC.
A less trite one:
Office 2007's new UI, if it achieves the any sort of foothold on corporate desktops, will render all experience of word processing at schools until now totally obsolete. Or will it? No of course not - conversion courses will help the latest intake drive the latest software.
If this change can be handled between versions of the same product, then exactly the same case can be made for conversion between products. So (for example):
Train on OpenOffice (or other product if it's free at least for educational and domestic use, and runs on a free operating system.) With the money you save on buying no Microsoft Office or Windows licences build and deploy short conversion courses for people about to leave school, getting them up to speed on the current commercial favourites. This would spit out kids with more up-to-date experience of the commercial softwarescape than the current policy.
The benefits of this approach come from breaking the lock-in: commoditisation spreading children's access to computing in a way that otherwise only massive subsidy could (fail to) achieve; our children, their teachers and parents able to take advantage of the freely-given, high-quality work of a global community, while ending their education better trained on the latest commercial tools than they are today.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7210652,00.html
"Becta is advising British schools to take a long look at Linux and open source suites like OpenOffice.org." I'm sure they will take a look at Linux and promptly forget about it as soon as they realize that they would have to fire their existing Windows-only IT staff and/or hire new staff to support it. After that they will take a long look at their agreement with Microsoft and realize that just ditching MS Office will not help either since their current volume license agreement is a package that includes Office too.
In order to *really* save money you have to go for the full monty and almost completely ditch all Microsoft products, which requires a talented IT staff. My experience with K-12 Education IT is that most IT staffs in this category can't make this work.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
I'm an ICT teacher in the UK and I totally agree. We are trying to teach skills and not packages. But it is more than that, you can;t teach kids everything in school and being able to access the skills and tools that you implement in school at home is essential to complement what they are learning in school. After two years of quite severe debate, our school now uses several OSS packages and the kids are given copies of the OpenEducationDisc. Teachers and students can't believe it is free. I now have kids making music, 2D and 3D graphics and actually able to complete written assignments at home as they have something to write with and open word docs with (OOo). For me propriety formats do not have a foot to stand on when you take the home situation into hand.
"all through my house i set up traps, it seems like the rats have a map, so now i feed the rats crack" - Donald D
The MS-Office 2007 interface isn't really innovative. It's more the bastard love-child of several new interfaces, including (but not limited to) Apple's iWork interface. So it's not new, it's not innovative.
It's better, that's for sure. But really, MS has done what they've always done: based their work on others', and called it their own.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Better article here:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/11/Dont-upgrade-to-Vista_1.html
Also, follow the article's links. New York extended their deadline to submit public comments to Friday January 18th.
http://www.oft.state.ny.us/oftnews/erecords-study.htm#Part_II_-_Detailed_Questions
That's not an excuse, I'm not wasting tax so they can become an extension of Microsoft's sales dept!
They should be learning about IT! They should learn a little about different Operating Systems, maybe a bit of html, how to read a manual (very important for anything tech related), etc.
What do we currently have you might be asking? 1 year of learning that a monitor is an output and a keyboard is an input. The IT education in England is a joke.
IT education should start from primary school, it's far more important then some other subjects learned. If my 4 year old niece can navigate the BBC's kids section and play the flash games (I only visit her, no help from me) I'm sure that schools could teach much older kids in primary school.
BUT. Lets not kid ourselves, this is an education system that is having problems teach kids to READ. Yes, read. There are some children that go through a whole 10/11 years of education without being able to read and NO ONE NOTICES!!
They want their excuse back.
No, really. I'm tired of answering your fucking phone.
Perhaps you might have been "insightful" two years ago, but Linux (and FOSS in general) is much more accepted and deployed in real-life situations these days. Nowadays, especially with Vista, people are serious when they talk about switching to Linux. It's no longer a negotiation tactic. It's *fact*. It's honest.
I've helped with Linux migrations for businesses that didn't even know Linux existed two years ago. Believe me, people are *tired* of taking it up the ass from Microsoft.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Let's see: the demise of HD-DVD was a blow. Then the fact that MS is associated with those trying to undermine a charity (OLPC) will certainly not generate a whole lot of good will. Then this little chink in the armor, in the british schools. And then there was that class action lawsuit against Microsoft because of the Xbox Live network downtimes. A year that barely started, and already generated all this sh*t for MS!
However will this year continue, for MS? I hear that a lot of disillusioned users of Vista just decided to get macs. A little number, perhaps, but still an erosion of Microsoft marketshare. And then there's Firefox that's increasing its marketshare every month a little bit.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
As long as we're questioning the educational value of a "standard" OS, let's question the educational value of "standard" end-user software. Face it, 10 year olds aren't very interested in playing with a word processor or spreadsheet. How about something that will actually engage and challenge them? Even if they don't go for the XO, schools should consider installing some of the software from that system. Which is not terribly tied to the OLPC project, or even to Linux. OLPC's innovative user interface also deserves a close look.
In the British public sector, people don't get fired.
Well, they do, but they tend to have to commit serious crime for it to happen. Kiddy-fiddling, murder, that sort of thing (little things like defrauding the taxpayer of tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds tend not to cause much of a fuss).
It also doesn't matter two shits what the IT staff want, because they don't make the decisions. That's why we have organisations like BECTA, who (thankfully) have a relatively level head about such things and can tell local authorities what the deal is.
Of course, local authorities are typically in the supplier's pockets, and there's only so much BECTA, et al, can do about that, but at no point do they actually care what the skills of the IT staff are. As far as the local authority's concerned, the IT staff are employed to manage and maintain whatever the hell it is that they've decided should be in place this year.
I know the parent poster is joking, but often you find Microsoft equals US economy. Microsoft is actually not even a US company anymore, as they launder their money in Ireland or wherever to pay less US tax.
I would like to point out that Red Hat, Sun Microsystems, Novell, FSF, Linux Foundation are all based in the US. So good for US.
My little Linux and tech blog
twice in one day... Look at my timestamp. (No, I'm not grousing, just pointing out things...)
I guess / only wants journalistic firehose submissions. And, can't seem to want to rotate through as wide a number of readers' submissions... Oh well...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I do not deny for one minute that there are a minority of specialised MS Office users who write macros and VB programs for which OpenOffice would not be suitable - but for the majority of MS Office users that do use only about 10% of its features, OO is a perfectly good substitute.
And dare I mention one important fact. I work in the IT industry and have a large group of friends who also (mostly) work in high tech industry. All of them have MS Office on their home PCs but not one of them has actually paid for it - they've either borrowed a corporate license from their workplace or use cracks of the Internet. In my experience, when these people compare MS Office to OpenOffice, they forget that MS Office should probably have cost them a couple of hundred dollars/pounds/euros whereas OO is entirely free. If they were forced to pay for their copies of MS office, they would be a lot more inclined to at least give OO a try.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I do not deny that IT staff who support Windows day-to-day in the Public Sector would need to be trained to support Linux. But I'm sure this additional cost would soon be outweighed by the monies that no longer need to be spent on Microsoft licenses, anti-virus software and new PCs everytime a new MS OS is released.
If it does turn out that deploying Windows is cheaper than Linux, then I'm more than happy to see them stick with Windows - but the fact is that, so far, estimates of migrating to Open Source are just guesses without any real truth in reality.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Why wasnt France the first to object? Even the asthestics suck. They should be the ultimate UI freaks!
News: Charles is switching to opensource...
At least in the United States, computer training in schools is already lacking. More and more students lack general or even useful knowledge of using business software. With many businesses already using Microsoft Office products (Maybe not 2007), wouldn't it be in the best interest for everyone to teach kids what the working environment actually uses? Sure OpenOffice and Linux is used, but 90% of OEM machines use Windows and Office. About the same percentage of businesses use the same. The cost of upgrading computer systems may not be cheap, but logic would dictate that you upgrade every 3-5 years. How ever popular Linux and OpenOffice may be, the schools shouldn't be dictating "standards" for computer software. School is supposed to prepare students for life and work, and until Linux or OpenOffice become the majority operating system or office program, I can't see it being worth the school's time to retrain and waste time switching. For example, the state government I work for uses Microsoft Exchange, Active Directory, Windows XP and Office 2003/7. If the local schools switched to Linux and OpenOffice, the time spent training students on OpenOffice and Linux to get jobs with the state, which provides 70% of the jobs in our state, the four years spent doing business computer classes would be almost wasteful.
There's a difference between "borrowing" and "ripping off." Usually it's involved in the character of the person doing the deed.
In Microsoft's case, they rip off. They don't really even improve. They have built a (very successful) business around stealing other peoples' ideas, while contributing *nothing* back. It's not like they are building on the work of others. They copy the works of others, and pretend *they* invented it. They don't give credit (part of the obligation of "borrowing"). They don't admit they are taking. They have a "not invented here" mentality when it comes to execution, but they definitely follow a "wait 'til the market proves it" mentality when following creativity.
So, they are risk-averse. (Understandable.) They are no creative. (Many companies aren't.) The problem is when they try to take claim, either implicitly or explicitly, for other people's inventions. *That's* the problem.
It's not BS. It's truth. In literature, we call it plagiarism. That's where Microsoft has been most successful. (To the point where I've heard *many times* that Microsoft invented the Internet.) They are good at stealing ideas, but very bad about giving ideas back.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Well, they do, but they tend to have to commit serious crime for it to happen. That's pretty much how it is here is the U.S. too. at no point do they actually care what the skills of the IT staff are. As far as the local authority's concerned, the IT staff are employed to manage and maintain whatever the hell it is that they've decided should be in place this year. Then the local authorities are idiots if they don't care what the skills of the IT staff are.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
The ribbon just reminded me of the toolbar in iWorks. Maybe it's the organization, or the simplicity or the layout. There's just something to it that seems reminiscent of iWorks.
Really, I should've mentioned Adobe's recent products, which are more of a direct rip-off than the iWorks stuff. I guess I'm just more sensitized to iWorks since I've been using it (and been very impressed by it).
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
The site's in French, but FF numbers are the lower in the UK than anywhere else in Europe -- and according to this report, it actually shrunk this fall. (Search for "Royaume-Uni" for the UK's numbers).
Last time I checked, IE's still number one in the UK, and its share seems to be growing. Anyone know why?
And yeah, I know FF isn't Linux or OO -- but its IS free, and it IS open source. And IMHO, its MUCH more accessible for the laypeople than Linux or OO.
Now, if we could only be more like the Aussies . . . .
"Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Well if the IT skill of the current school staff is something approaching zero (with outstanding exceptions) or they have little budget for staff at all, then replacing badly supported Windows with badly supported Linux might not be too bad, at least the kids can't fill them up with spyware, pirated games and so on.
My little Linux and tech blog
I guess things do change.
LyX?
As long as you had some "IT" it was good. The type, or brand or style of IT was irrelevant...as long as it worked, no one cared. Microsoft cared. That's how they got into their position. Nobody cared in management (but they loved being taken to dinner and strip clubs).
Now people are feeling the hurt that is caused by Microsoft. They are feeling it in many ways and from every direction. It has the attention of government! Let's review why that's significant:
Things that get government attention:
* Things that involve money and personal wealth
* Things that are real problems in the world
(In that order)
Somehow, all that money Microsoft has been spending hasn't been enough to distract government any longer. Somehow, the weight of the problems that Microsoft causes has eclipsed the amount of money they throw around. Now it's too late. Their money is becoming dirty and politicians can't take it as readily as they could before.
Do you have a link to a MS Word version of the report?
My university in the US has already upgraded to Office 2007 and all future purchased computers are to be bulked up to run Vista. Current computers will eventually roll over to a KMS (corporate) Vista as well. Considering most labs run only Office or Adobe applications, and the labs having anti-virus and Deep Freeze to keep the computers clean, I wonder what is the point of updating to Vista so soon. Seems like a waste of time and money.
I just setup a Vista box for my cousin. Of course it had 17 updates waiting for it but it was the 32 bit version. He's disable so I also had to install Dragon Naturally Speaking. That runs fairly well on Vista.
The thing that struck me is that out of the box it took over an HOUR for Vista to set itself up. That's completely unacceptable.
I'm sure they will take a look at Vista and promptly forget about it as soon as they realize that they would have to fire their existing Windows-only IT staff and/or hire new staff to support it.
Like my edit? I'm surprised that you did not mention the high cost of retraining the teachers themselves, who you would insult as so droolingly stupid that they can't learn to push Open Office buttons. Face it, every new version of Windoze requires retraining equal to or greater than that required to shift to free software for users and administrators. The tools to make administration easy have been available from companies like Red Hat for more than ten years. Institutions that have made the move invariably discover a world that's easier and cheaper. Vista is bigger and badder than most M$ upsells and they were dumb enough to couple it to a complete Fuck You elimination of old shortcuts. Things don't get any better than they are now and they have not really been in M$'s favor for a decade.
You mean like when they "borrowed" blueJ and then tried to patent it?
For schools, probably not. Lots of companies are using Office 2007 though.
It's amazing that M$ did not just fund some more "Get the facts" style reports and make a case.
If they had done that, would you be happy?
Your joke is more of the same kind of arrogance.
Statements like these, coupled with your use of that annoying "M$" thing that stopped being funny in 1998 are probably why you have already ground two Slashdot accounts into negative karma territory. One of these days the editors will wise up to your shenanigans and sockpuppets.
The twitter monologues. Click on my homepage and be amazed.
Well, I can't comment on the state of the UK's school computers.... But I am 3/4 the way through a PC rollout for the coucil/local governement that I work for. We are now, more than ever a Microsoft shop, because our new Finance system and Document system are both MS SQL based. For desktops our new spec's are 3GB RAM on each PC - just to keep up with the new systems (won't get into how we were oversold on the products here!). I have had to write new doco for the new PC's as we are *JUST* moving to XP SP2, and Outlook 2003 - but still running Office 2000 for everything else. I have had a fair few comments about just moving from Outlook 2000 to Outlook 2003! Our software vendor has just informed us (unsurprisingly to me) that they are no longer supporting their platform on Office 2000. Got a spare $150K for Office upgrade? As far as Vista goes, we are on a total "wait and see" - as we have some serious legacy applications that still have to be supported before they can be migrated over to the new system. As far as the new "features" of Vista's Areo and Glass, it is lost on our environment, as most of our users are happy enough to log in, check email, browse the internet - but primarily launch the main Financial package and be done with it. We would still be on 2000 Pro, but that is no longer supported on the newer hardware - at least with our fleet of HP desktops, getting XP drivers is still an option.
This is BECTA's final report, the result of a two year study. Last year, they practically begged M$ for case studies and pilot projects to prove Vista's worth. There are only two reasons M$ failed to answer BECTA's concerns:
Well, it's a good thing you can count.
As for the UK school system being too small a customer... Excuse me?
If the Croatian school system isn't too small a customer for MS to worry about, I really can't see the UK system being considered irrelevant.
Especially since MS wants MS software in schools: "give me a child of seven" and all that jazz.
Really, twitter, your blind hatred of M$ even makes you blind to what they really are doing.
Chill out, why don't you?
Ignore this signature. By order.
When I was at school in the seventies, the bright kids got an education. The less bright girls learnt to type, because there would always be work for copy typists, and the less bright boys learnt to use a lathe, because here in Birmingham (England, not Alabama) there would always be work in the car industry.
I wonder how that's working out? I was taught transferrable skills, like how to learn, and thirty years later I'm still learning. Meanwhile, there's no car industry and copy typing, shorthand and the rest may as well be candle making for all the traction they have.
I don't know what software my children will use in the workplace in ten or twenty years' time, and if I did I'd be making a fortune producing it. I don't know what JOBS they'll be doing in ten or twenty years time, perhaps (indeed probably) in a very different landscape to where we are now. What I do know is that flexibility, adaptability, the ability to learn and reskill and change, are going to be vital in a world where the linear career is dead. And that's why the best thing you can learn is how to learn.
So as a matter of policy, whatever software the kids are using at school, we use something else at home. School right now is Office 2003 on XP, so home is iWork '08 on Mac. Spreadsheet problems I show them how to do by hand, and I'm about to start showing them how to knock up code to do it (and I'm choosing a language they're highly unlikely to use in school: I'm torn between Scheme and Processing). We did a poster project with Keynote, but also with a razor blade and cowgum.
You can teach your children ``the workplace'' if you like. I think you Americans call those sorts of lessons ``shop''. Someone who has a good degree in a pure science or a legitimate humanity can learn to use Word to a sufficient standard in a morning. Someone who knows Word, but can't use a library or do calculus, is welcome to try learning those in a morning. How many successful authors can touch type, and how many just did hunt and peck? Same principle.
How did Brunel build the Great Western without the help of Office? Which was more important: using Office, or being a great engineer?
And before anyone makes the point, I realise these aren't binary, black/white choices. But in terms of mentality, they are: do you regard education as about learning the direct skills of today, or the ability to learn the skills of tomorrow? There's a word for people with the first sort of education, or indeed training, and the word is `poor'.
ian
Thank you for your well argued response. I agree with you 100% and I wish I had mod points!
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
This is BECTA's final report, the result of a two year study. Last year, they practically begged M$ for case studies and pilot projects to prove Vista's worth. There are only two reasons M$ failed to answer BECTA's concerns:
No, three reasons:
Our four...no... Amongst our reasons.... I'll come in again.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
This is brilliant news if they switch to Linux instead of Vista!
http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
OK, time to piss on everyone's parade.
Sorry to spoil the party but what BECTA say counts for bugger all as they have no power beyond recommendation.
I, am the admin of a UK school that has been running Linux on all of our servers for the last three years. It's brilliant! Uptimes are long, hacking is minimal and we save a bloody fortune in licences. Centos backend running LDAP,DHCP,DNS, Mandriva boxes for Samba and Zimbra (Open Source version) running on our mail server. The desktops (much to my despair) are still running XP but the curriculum software our teachers use won't run via WINE. The IT club however is going to be running Ubuntu or Fedora 8 so at least some will get the point but I digress from the point that I wish to make which is "Building Schools for the Future" or "Fucking-up Schools for the Future" as it's often to referred to by those of us that the council claim have been fully consulted when in fact we haven't heard a word.
Building Schools for the Future (BSF) is the governments plan to scratch build new school buildings for every school in the UK. Sounds great doesn't it but what they don't mention is that the building of these schools is a PFI (Private Finance Initiative) project that will lead to these schools; a) costing more long term than keeping them public and b) being run by private companies with the tax payer footing the bill (and the CEO's bonus).
On an ICT front, computing services will be tendered out to private companies along the lines of Capita and RM. Let's play spot the Linux oriented company in this lot shall we? Oh right, they're aren't any and that probably explains why leading edge BSF schools aren't running Linux. Whole counties are run on SIMS (School Information Management System) and it doesn't run MySQL or Postgres as the backend (Take a guess). The collection of data from schools will also be centralised to the governments education department which will require compatible software and all this is happening now.
And here folks is the problem. BECTA have been spouting on about Linux for years now and you will be hard pressed to find anything except Windows in schools because once you get to a certain level of decision maker no-one cares as it's just a few extra zeros on the end of number that's already very large. Part of this is probably down to the fact that no-one actually seems to know how much BSF is going to cost even though they are trying to sign service companies up to it. You can probably throw whatever figure you want at it and it will get paid because, like the Olympics, it's a Government prestige project that the tax-payer will underwrite. Obviously, if Linux did look too promising, educational XP licences would be extended and discounted to ensure that whatever converting cost, it would be more than the status quo.
I'll believe Linux in schools when, and only when I see it. Until then it's a fairy tale.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
Just so you know, the only person that gives a fuck is you. Cheers.
An excellent point, with one problem - the vast majority of UK schools have no IT staff, they use science/maths teachers who are interested in IT. That's certainly the experience I've had with the many schools my kids have attended (we move a lot with work).
Now you may be right that these teachers know little about Linux but they really don't have to, given that the networks they are typically supporting are far from complex. This is the entire reason for people complaining about MS products and Dell PC's in use in the first place because a huge support contract for a handful of PCs and a printer is excessive. Especially when the majority of software that is used is web based in any event.
A thistle is a fat salad for an ass's mouth...
and we had an 'offer' from MS, basically we could get a copy of Office 2007 to use at home for about £10/$20. Was never quite sure what the intention of this was, but interesting..
Oh, stop being rude! It's the sock puppet of a known troll.
Completely different.
Because he's right, you knob.
This is not news. If anyone asks me if it's a good idea to upgrade to Vista and Office 2007, they get a resounding NO from me. Nothing but problems, but I'm sure they'll tell me that I have no idea what I'm doing. Funny how my machines don't crash like theirs do .....
I've been a Linux user since '96 and I start a new job doing IT support at a school in NW England on Monday so this is fantastic news for me as I have zero respect for V**** and so wasn't looking forward to being forced into using Big BrOS where Linux would've done the job better, faster and for free.
2007 was such a good year for Linux - 2008 will be even better!
I'm Head of UK special school, in London. To clear a few things up - the timing of this is very strategic - coincides with the BETT show at Olympia - the main education ICT event of the year in the Uk, Next BECTA are influential in that they're (one of) the voice(s) of Government - they don't dictate what individual schools do Schools aren't obliged to adopt any particular system - most of them buy into services provided by local councils under "Service Level Agreements" - which give the impression of a locally controlled system - but actually the schools can opt out any time (some do - only the ones brave and knowldegeable enough) My own school has an SLA for ICT with our local authority - it's frustrating but we stick with it because it's cheap. On new machines we're buying we're sticking with XP and Office 2003 - this is starting to become difficult on our laptops - however since laptops for individual staff are not routinely given log ons to the net we go with Vista. We can still get Desktops from Dell (our ICT depts. preferred suppliers) with XP - but no longer lap tops - we could if we wanted do a full re-install anyway - our ICT people set all new machines up for us. The office problem is more interesting - we're currently purchasing licences for Office 2007 with each new machine - but deploying the old version in practice. However we're routinely getting people bringing in files created on their own machines, which obviously aren't instantly compatible with older Office versions. Office offers a prompt to download a plug in to convert files - however very few users have enough priveleges to install these, and our ICT people are now deploying the plug-ins on an authority wide basis as soon as they are able. Individual schools will, I am sure, for the most part stick with latest versions of Office and Vista - UK education was badly bitten in the past by sticking with non industry standard systems - notably the Acorn systems in all UK schools in the 80's and much of the 90s. Despite being a far superior system, it died the death, due to commercial pressures - and most school leaders are only too well aware of the dangers of moving too far away from an industry standard. So they won't do it. In a special school like mine (special schools in the UK have often been at the forefront of ICT developments) - it's important that we are able to run some extremely specialised software - much of which is written by fairly small companies and is unlikely to be versioned for Linux - but will clearly be eventually available for Vista. Ironically much of the American software is for Apple - who apparently gained a foothold in US special ed in much the same way as Acorn did in the UK. Don Johnston being a notable famed provider of specialised software. A problem which my school (and I know of others) is having is the cost of providing MS Exchange server and other back office software to enable shared diaries with Outlook or similar. It truly is extortionate, and although we have devices such as Palms etc to do our own diaries it's very difficult to synchronise them with other staff, and we tend to rely on a much scribbled on A4 desk diary which is usually misplaced from the main office. Consider for a moment if Microsoft decided to bombard schools with loss leading deals on Office 2007 and Vista (which they can easily afford to) - the schools would bite their hands off so quickly it wouldn't be true. So although there are some very noble words in Becta's report, in reality it's about getting MS to bring their prices down. And I guess in the wider market if MS were to sell Vista for $50, or £25, then it would more or less put a stop to the adoption of Linux by the average punter. They'll do it if they need to I guess - but not unless.
Is "M$" still funny or subversive after 1998?
You forgot reason #5:
5. MS is under no obligation to work with them, or to "justify" their existence.
Hey, if this school wants to start cranking out graduates totally unprepared for the global job market... why is it MS's job to stop them?
So please, spare us from this "we need Microsoft to save us from ourselves" self-pity act. It's old already, which is why Slashdot's user base is shrinking as services like Digg and del.icio.us are now eating Slashdot's lunch. Slashdot used to be about tech, now it's just a MS-hate propaganda outfit. Hell, it can't even help save Teh Lunix, since OSX is eating Lunix's lunch now.
So since this school is asking MS to justify it's existence... how about Lunix justifying it's existence? Just saying "we aren't MS, and M$ is Teh Evil" simply isn't good enough anymore. People want an OS which can actually do something well, which is why "we aren't Windows" can't get traction.
I really feel bad for these kids, and the kids having the OLPC craptop forced on them, that their education and futures are being torpedoed just so they can be used as pawns in the FOSSie's war against Microsoft.
Go on, read the report, it's interesting:
From the executive summary it seems that Microsoft's stubborn refusal to read/write ODF is coming back to roost (is that the correct idiom?). The report is'nt really very negative but says there's no strong case to buy this new expensive software (MS Office 2007).
<slightly-offtopic-rant>
Imagine a world where everyone can always read each other's documents, no incompatibilities or "you must buy the newest version of your office program". It just saves everyone a bit of bother, this is not difficult to understand. Instead all I hear around me is comments how "Open Office ate the MS Word document that people e-mailed me" instead of the other way around.
</slightly-offtopic-rant>
<wildly-offtopic-rant>
I can't wait until that situation changes, until we're in the IMHO "lower-energy-cost" of these two bi-stable states. There's some "activation energy" movement though, recently (well, here in Europe).
Hey, what do you think of this comparison I just came up with (I'm having a bad cold and can't think straight today so please bear with me a bit longer):
Which is better for the kids in British schools? If you're still in doubt or American, read this nice explanation: link.
</wildly-offtopic-rant>
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
I'm pro-OSS and yet I also think that homosexualism is an affront to humanity. I don't see the contradiction.
It strikes me as incredibly strange that Vista (and Office 07?) have backward compatibility problems. Isn't this the first rule writing software, that changes don't disturb existing functionality? Or, more specifically, that version updates don't piss users off by making it harder to do their work than the previous version?
As a programmer myself, the Vista mess feels rather surreal! I mean, this is 2008, we've all learned from our mistakes now, surely? How could a company like MS make such simple business blunders?
The only possibility I see is that this was a traditional MS "upgrade strategy" gone terribly wrong. If so, it was the worst idea, considering all the competition emerging now. Such is the result of "old thinking" I guess.
They should have made it a "no brainer" for gods sake. All product updates should be no-brainers.
Sorry to disappoint some of you OpenOffice fans but for work like assignments I will use MS Office over OpenOffice. For the rest I use OpenOffice. The same applies for the work environment. Jusy my humble opinion.
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Hi Anubi. I just noticed that you left a journal entry for people to write back to you. However, you need to make a new journal entry from time to time because slashdot closes stale discussions (after a week or two I think).