Hacking Asus EEE

An anonymous reader writes "Torsten Lyngaas has published a set of instructions with photographs on his personal wiki that describe the steps he took to install $450 worth of extra hardware, including a GPS receiver, an FM transmitter, Bluetooth, extra USB ports, 802.11n, and an extra 4GB flash storage drive."

Comments

Honest question

[Pojut]

Why do laptops not have any kind of universal form factor similar to desktops? Is it because of the varying shapes and sizes of the cases? Couldn't laptop manufacturers just design the case around standardized hardware, thus making it easier to upgrade them (or are they already doing this?)

For example...say I wanted to upgrade the video card in my old laptop (provided it wasn't one built into the motherboard)...why isn't there a universal way of doing this, similar to how it is done on a desktop? Cost?

Re:Honest question

[Malevolent Tester]

Couldn't laptop manufacturers just design the case around standardized hardware, thus making it easier to upgrade them

And who'd buy a new laptop then?

Re:Honest question

[Hatta]

Because different people have different needs.

Re:Honest question

[Actually, I do RTFA]

For example...say I wanted to upgrade the video card in my old laptop (provided it wasn't one built into the motherboard)...why isn't there a universal way of doing this, similar to how it is done on a desktop? Cost?

Because then you couldn't get a really, really thin laptop?

Re:Honest question

[schnikies79]

Wouldn't that be the point?

People have different needs and wants with desktops and you can build any way you want. Full atx down to itx, 15in screen, 21in, etc. Why not the same options with notebooks?

Re:Honest question

[TheRaven64]

It's mainly about size. Every laptop I have bought has been smaller than the one it replaced. A fixed form factor would make this impossible. That said, there is a standard for miniPCI Express and if your GPU is on one of these cards it can be upgraded. Quite a few older machines came with miniPCI slots for things like WiFi or crypto accelerators. They're not often used though, since laptops tend to have everything the designers thought might be useful soldered on to the motherboard.

Re:Honest question

[LynnwoodRooster]

Cost and size. Connectors take both, and in a price and space constrained thing like a laptop - which tend to be more "disposable" in terms of longevity than desktops - it's simply a better choice to solder the graphics chip on to the motherboard.

Note too that laptop motherboard chipsets tend to have the most integrated peripherals, compared to desktops - integrated video, LAN, ports, etc. simply because of the need to save space.

Re:Honest question

[Nimsoft]

Some already have upgradeable hard drives, memory, graphics cards via MXM modules, socketed processors and expansion cards via mini PCI express or expresscard.

That's pretty much everything, not bad! The trouble is all these sockets and expansion slots and connectors add to the size and weight so smaller laptops are unlikely to use them.

Re:Honest question

[gEvil (beta)]

Not to mention the power and heat issues...

Re:Honest question

[Hatta]

Because if I don't need an internal optical drive on my laptop, it would be dumb for me to buy a case that has one. Extra weight and bulk for no benefit. But there are plenty of people who do want internal optical drives, so there really is no one size fits all solution. Is this not obvious?

Re:Honest question

[Vellmont]

Why do laptops not have any kind of universal form factor similar to desktops?

Because the size, shape, weight, etc of a laptop matters in a laptop, and it doesn't matter terribly much in a desktop. Compatibility and flexibility matters more in desktop design, as it allows manufacturers to pick and choose based upon need and cost without having to re-design everything.

A laptop is packed so tight, that the space considerations are a lot different, so the needs of flexibility in packing things together, differing battery sizes, etc overweigh the needs of making it all cheap and pluggable.

Re:Honest question

[Arthur B.]

Why not make laptops break after a month then, they'd sell even more laptop!

A laptop that is easy to upgrade is worth more to the consumer, so you could sell it for more by pointing out you won't need to buy another laptop. Why doesn't it happen ? In a way it does, there are laptop manufacturers that produce these kinds, but they are not really popular, they're a bit bloated etc.

I think laptops are going to diverge between a desktop replacement that you can easily carry - transportables, and those will come with standardized hardware, and ultra-portables where people won't care about the upgradability enough to sacrifice weight or volume.

But the point is, the argument from planned obsolescence works only if the consumer is unable to think mid-long term (which is different from *caring about long term*). Used car sell for much less than new cars so they seem to have that ability.

Re:Honest question

[Pojut]

My apologies for pissing you off. I had a legitimate question, and in my question I even offered up reasons as to why I thought this hasn't been done yet (and those same reasons were echoed in the responses to my original post)

It would be one thing if I was trolling. I wasn't. I was curious as to what other slashdotters thought about the subject. Don't be an ass.

Re:Honest question

[wwwillem]

I would love to see (and willing to pay extra) if for starters standardization appears for laptop batteries and power bricks. Now that we (the world) are using for laptops for 10+ years, I guess nearly everybody has drawers full of old power bricks that are incompatible with your new and different brand notebook. Why can we standardize on 110 resp. 230 volt in our homes, but not on 18 Volt (or whatever) for a notebook.

Notebook designers can still make their own power-bricks, but the plug and voltage should be standardized. Hey, VGA and USB are also common accross the industry, so why not the power as well.

Same with batteries. Why do I have AAA / AA / C / D cells for my transistor radios and flashlights, but not the same thing for my laptop. Everex and Mallory should be ones where you buy your battery from. Laptops is now a mature product and the time is over where customized batteries were needed because of the constraints.

I know of course why this doesn't happen, it's all about profit. But because it all ends up in our landfills, this is something where IMHO governments should step in and regulate. If they can regulate the CO2 emissions of my car, they should also be allowed to take on this.

Re:Honest question

[schnikies79]

I know that, but why not different sized laptop bodies and such.

Why not have say, the itx version of the laptop body which has no optics and then the atx version which has room for all the bells and whistles, with a few options in between? I'm not saying a one-size fits all size laptop body.

There are all different sized desktop cases, why not a selection of like 5 or so different laptop body sizes? Every size has more or less room, size, options, etc.? Then you pick and choose your parts, screen size and do what you want?

Re:Honest question

[calebt3]

they'd sell even more laptop They would be selling their competitor's laptops.

Re:Honest question

[drew]

Laptops (even carefully used ones) also take more more of a beating than a desktop system, so their life expectancy is less. A desktop can run for 10 years with occasional upgrades if your needs are not too demanding (my parents current home PC is a PIII that I originally got in 1997 or 1998 and it's still going strong). I've yet to have owned a laptop that needed to be upgraded before it started to show significant physical signs of age- loose power adapter plug or bad charging circuits, busted hinges or case, missing keys, etc. Three years seems to be about the limit (for me) of how far you can get on a laptop before it needs to be replaced. Unless you're a hardcore gamer (in which case, you're probably not after a laptop anyway) it's not too hard to buy a computer that will last you three years without upgrades.

Re:Honest question

[LandKurt]

It's not just the size of the connector, it's the size you have to devote to an unknown future upgrade board.

Just look at the amount of empty space inside the average tower PC. You can't add that much upgrade flexibility to a laptop without ballooning its size.

Laptops are optimized for low size and weight. Desktops are optimized for upgrade flexibility. This naturally leads to two distinctly different products. Even hard drives and memory, which you can usually upgrade on a laptop, use different form factors in a laptop.

Re:Honest question

[Sockatume]

On-board graphics cards and CPU slots are becoming increasingly standardised, and memory and hard drives are thankfully pretty much all the same these days. A few of the bigger laptop manufacturers are collaborating on a standard for the rest of the components ("common backplane" or something), including the LCD panels and keyboards which often make laptop overhauls a nightmare. As an example I have a 6-year-old Toshiba at home, and main thing I'm worried about is the death of the LCD backlight, which I can't replace. Hopefully it'll take off.

Re:Honest question

[Catbeller]

Interesting. Is it possible that manufacturers pursue ever-shrinking devices mainly so that standardization cannot occur? Is the ever-"free" market arranging the furniture to keep prices high and interchangeability of parts impossible... yep.

Well, it won't last forever. (I may underestimate the power of rich people wanting more money). Optical interconnects will eventually evolve to the point where components can be swapped by simply unplugging and replugging, or perhaps components could communicate by simply "seeing" each other and transmitting data via light. Any number of factors will shrink CPUs and storage and RAM. We will see a standard laptop or table case in the next ten years or so, I feel.

Re:Honest question

[PFAK]

No, they do the opposite. IBM and the like actually whitelist what Mini PCI cards you can put in a machine.

Lame, I know.

Re:Honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

-1 Makes too much sense

Re:Honest question

[misleb]

For example...say I wanted to upgrade the video card in my old laptop (provided it wasn't one built into the motherboard)

I think you just answered your own question. To make the stuff fit into the smallest possible space, they need to build just about everything into the mainboard. You'd more or less be buy a new computer when you "upgrade" anyway. Might as well replace the shell too. And the battery is probably not going to be very good buy the time you get arund to upgrading. Might as well replace that as well. I think modular laptops would be less desirable than you think.

-matthew

Re:Honest question

[sbrown123]

I remember opening a friends computer many years back to help him upgrade the memory. After close examination we noticed that the memory was soldered in to place. Later someone asked me to help them upgrade their graphics card. I opened the case and noticed the AGP slot looked funny. I quickly figured out that the slot was actually backwards. So to answer your question about laptops: the answer is vendor lock-in for hardware upgrades and limit choices. Until customers start demanding standards the manufacturers are more than happy to keep dishing out the closed solutions.

Re:Honest question

[Bartab]

I may underestimate the power of rich people wanting more money

I, however, will never underestimate the ability of People With A Cause to see conspiracies.

Re:Honest question

[avronius]

Just build the laptop case out of spandex - might learn more than you ever wanted to about it's anatomy, however...

Re:Honest question

[TheRaven64]

Interesting. Is it possible that manufacturers pursue ever-shrinking devices mainly so that standardization cannot occur? No, manufacturers shrink devices because they are still a fair distance away from the ideal form factor. When they get there, standardisation will bring down costs and the non-standard models will be consigned to niches, exactly as happened with desktops.

Re:Honest question

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Desktops have plenty of room, size and weight aren't a concern. You can have liters of dead space and it doesn't matter. If space and weight did matter, then we wouldn't be stuck with full height cards and space for full-length boards.

Notebooks need a heck of a lot of optimization to fit that power into a space that's less than 2" thick and a carryable weight. Sure, there's MXM for video, but that's only part of the problem.

Re:Honest question

[TheRaven64]

I upgrade my laptop roughly every three years. Last upgrade, pretty much everything got upgraded. The WiFi added support for .n, the CPU got faster (and dual-core and 64-bit), the RAM got faster, the optical drive supports writing dual-layer DVDs (the previous one was single-layer only), the GPU got significantly better. The screen, while the same physical form-factor, got a higher resolution and the machine got a slightly smaller box. The USB and FireWire ports are the same speed as is the Bluetooth, but the PC-Card (PCI) slot was replaced with an ExpressCard (PCIe) slot.

What would I gain from being able to replace components in an ad-hoc fashion?

Re:Honest question

[misleb]

And who'd buy a new laptop then?

Probably the same people who buy brand new Dell desktops rather than upgrade anything more complex than RAM or a hard drive.

-matthew

Re:Honest question

[khraz]

Why do laptops not have any kind of universal form factor similar to desktops? Is it because of the varying shapes and sizes of the cases? Couldn't laptop manufacturers just design the case around standardized hardware, thus making it easier to upgrade them (or are they already doing this?)

I think that Intel has already started that trend with their VBI standard, and so does nVidia with their MXM graphics card form factor.

Re:Honest question

[ACMENEWSLLC]

I would guess that the added cost of creating a standard for doing this, putting the connectors in for this (versus soldering everything in) would make it not cost effective.

A Dell laptop can be found for $400-$500 entry level. If They are going to add the ability to put in a better video card, then they also need to allow for upgradeable power circuits (or do that from the beginning) to carry the draw of whatever video card you may put in. This would include the brick and any circuits on the mobo that may not be designed to carry such a load.

Then you have to account for the additional heat. So you either need to allow the user to upgrade the fans, or have the ability to cool the laptop for the hottest video card from the get go.

So how much more will that Dell cost to allow for all that? Would it be worth it to be able to upgrade, when in 6 months you are likely better off just buying a new laptop to get faster/bigger HDD, better LCD, faster CPU/RAM too? Would you have been better off just buying a laptop with a decent video card to begin with (at 2X the cost?)

If anything, I'd like to see a standard output jack that would allow me to plug in an external video card. I'd like a multimedia laptop ($1000 range) with a power saving video card built in, but a jack to allow me to game when I am at home.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/28/ati-to-release-power-hungry-external-video-card/
http://www.everythingusb.com/iogear_usb_2.0_external_video_card_12787.html

Re:Honest question

[misleb]

A laptop that is easy to upgrade is worth more to the consumer, so you could sell it for more by pointing out you won't need to buy another laptop.

Most laptops are relatively easy to upgrade. That is, for the things that are important: HD and RAM. Some even allow you to upgrade the optical drive without too much trouble. Might have to have someone with some skill do the work, but it isn't impossible. Beyond that, what would you upgrade? CPU? Yeah right, CPU sockets change on a weekly basis. Even on a desktop, your motherboard is probably going to be obsolete by the time you want to make an upgrade. You'll need a new one. And with that, all new RAM. So what on a laptop is really good long term? The GPU? I suppose you could have a standard slot for that, but it would add to the bulk. The display? The keyboard? Certainly not the battery.

-matthew

Re:Honest question

[pragma_x]

or perhaps components could communicate by simply "seeing" each other and transmitting data via light.

I've dreamed of this for a long time. Everything just plugs into "the bus", by mating lenses, GND and +5V rails. Plus, optical interconnects have just silly amounts of bandwidth at their disposal, all interference free. The major problem is having a cheap-but-good UART of sorts that can drink from that firehose.

The neat thing about this is that your tech problems then devolve into rather trival territory:

- "Don't plug that into slot 5, the lens is scratched."
- "I can't use that, I need a few more mA on my power supply, plus my bus manager has feckity power management."
- "I had a device conflict since that network adapter was factory preset to 'blue' - I switched it to 'red' and off I went."

Anyway, you're right: this'll be a huge boon for portables. Removing the sheer number of metal-to-metal contacts on devices would be a huge step towards proper miniaturization of a lot of devices. You may also see some broad compatibility between desktops, laptops, palmtops and cellphones, depending on the level of miniaturization involved.

Re:Honest question

[Sancho]

Hey, VGA and USB are also common accross the industry, so why not the power as well. It's partially inertia, I'm sure, but also the fact that each computer maker doesn't want to compete in every peripheral's market. Dell doesn't want to compete on external hard drives, external TV cards, external fingerprint readers, external mice, external keyboards, external keyboard lights, etc, particularly when doing so would preclude providing industry standard ports on their devices. However it's pretty easy to keep proprietary batteries and cables simply because there is no industry standard that a large percentage of the industry has agreed upon.

Peripheral support with standard connectors has been a staple of PC computing for a very long time. Before laptops even came out, computers had serial ports, and it made sense (when creating laptops) to provide one. However batteries are somewhat unique to portable computers, and it makes sense to use a proprietary one to discourage third-party competition.

Re:Honest question

[evilviper]

Why do laptops not have any kind of universal form factor similar to desktops? Is it because of the varying shapes and sizes of the cases?

Laptops are largely standardized. You can swap RAM, miniPCI devices (usually for graphics) WiFi, modems, keyboards, PSUs, etc.

As for motherboards... desktops really aren't standardized either. It's just that ATX is so large to begin with that making cases a few inches larger than an ATX motherboard (...is supposed to be) is hardly noticed, so cases are significantly oversized in both depth and width to ensure every motherboard out there will fit... and nobody cares. With laptops, size is a big selling point, so there's no room for several inches of such a fudge-factor.

When prices on the tech go down much further, so that top of the line motherboards can be made extremely tiny (say, 4" diameter) at only nominal expense over larger boards, you'll see laptops standardized just like desktops were, when the technology advanced to the point where ATX was more than big enough for everybody.

Re:Honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, just because your notebook has graphics card is a miniPCI, it doesn't mean any miniPCI graphics card will work. When it comes to notebooks there are a lot of compatibility issues and parts are MUCH more proprietary.

Re:Honest question

[evilviper]

I would love to see (and willing to pay extra) if for starters standardization appears for laptop batteries and power bricks.

What isn't standardized about batteries and power bricks?

I've got 3 power bricks from different laptops, and they're all almost identical (+/- 1V DC) and power my current laptops just fine. There are a few manufacturers that insist on funky connectors from time to time, but clearly you're happily buying from them despite this, so it must not matter to you as much as you say it does, otherwise you'd only buy the standard units.

Why do I have AAA / AA / C / D cells for my transistor radios and flashlights, but not the same thing for my laptop.

You might notice that you DON'T have Li-Ion AAA/AA/C/D cells... They're too tricky to just have loose cells, and hope users don't do anything stupid with them.

And laptops batteries ARE pretty well standardized, too, though not like you are thinking... If you crack open the casing on two different laptop batteries, you'll see that, though they may be in a different arrangement, and possibly a different number of them, the cells are both physically and electronically identical (give or take a few mAHs depending on age). You can't just swap batteries between laptops, as form factors differ, but if you could, you'd find that feature to be less than desirable, anyhow. It does allow, however, for numerous 3rd parties to compete easily for sales of OEM and after-market batteries, cheaply.

Re:Honest question

[Snaller]

Why? Money! They can make a lot more because they have trained the foolish buyers they have to buy a whole new machine each time.

Re:Honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

A nice idea!

Have you thought of something like starting an open hardware project around this idea? If only to get some knowledgeable people together to research what is possible and what isn't? :)

An Optical Bus Interface Wiki or something like that? ;)

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Optical_data_network_relay :D :D

Re:Honest question

[Hal_Porter]

Mini PCI express only has a x1 PCI Express link. Graphics cards usually use x16. Graphics cards need far more power than you can safely dissipate in in Mini PCI Express slot.

NVidia tried to introduce MXM - essentially a standard for small x16 PCI Express cards. It's not particularly popular compared to Mini PCI express or Express Card as far as I can tell - most laptops still have a soldered GPU. Some MXM laptops are actually locked to only accept a small number of approved cards.

Re:Honest question

[pragma_x]

BTW, you're entirely too nice to be posting AC. Get an account already, we need fewer trolls around here. :)

I don't have the hardware chops, but someday, I'd love to have the cash to work on something like that. I'll carry this little tidbit with me until the day I do.

Really, I look at it this way: a fully capable device with the absolute minimum number of external connections (contacts, buttons, etc) is the lowest possible point on the manufacturing vs use curve. The problem, is that it's not the current local minimum (mini-pci, firewire, SATA, depeding on your point of view), so it'll take some effort to get there, since you have to climb out of that valley. In the end, we'll have this - networking tech is already headed in this direction.

But yea, a wiki might be cool. Thanks, I'll consider it.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Optical_data_network_relay

How about that. I like me some good trek-tech.

Re:Honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

Notebook designers can still make their own power-bricks, but the plug and voltage should be standardized. Hey, VGA and USB are also common accross the industry, so why not the power as well.


No.

If there was a single standard, we wouldn't have Apple's magnetic power coupling. That alone is enough to refute your claim.

That's not even considering the voltage issues, or variations in battery chemistry...

Re:Honest question

[Eddi3]

"You might notice that you DON'T have Li-Ion AAA/AA/C/D cells"

O RLY?

Re:Honest question

[tlhIngan]

I would love to see (and willing to pay extra) if for starters standardization appears for laptop batteries and power bricks

There was a standard, briefly, in the mid-90's. Pushed by Duracell, I believe (who obviously wanted to sell laptop batteries), and was used in a few laptops (Toshiba?). Alas, it died mostly because it was "Yet another battery" and very few people used it. Plus, since the battery determined the formfactor, it was somewhat constraining in that all laptops now had a fixed minimum size in two directions (the last one isn't very constraining, since you need the rest of the laptop hardware). Of course, it probably lasted a few years, then people realized that they either didn't bother buying extra batteries, or if they did, it sat on the shelf, and by the time they needed it, it was as bad as their current one (such is the life of Li-Ion/LiPo batteries - their life decreases as they get older - so if you bought an extra battery when you bought the laptop, in 2 years, they both will hold very similar capacities if treated well).

A laptop that is easy to upgrade is worth more to the consumer, so you could sell it for more by pointing out you won't need to buy another laptop. Why doesn't it happen ? In a way it does, there are laptop manufacturers that produce these kinds, but they are not really popular, they're a bit bloated etc.

Perhaps. BUt as we see with desktops - people don't upgrade their computers much. Sure they may stick in another hard disk or change the memory, but that's about all. Video cards, other accessories are added way less often nowadays (especially since everything's gone USB or Firewire), so upgradability is less of a concern now than it was. Laptops offer portability and enough power, and with all the external hard drives, capture cards, etc. etc. etc., all the functionality that was once in a desktop without having to install cards and all that.

A modern laptop is designed to upgradable within a limited range of parts (see the "customize" button on every manufacturer's page? They just pop in different parts), which for most people is OK. Incremental upgrades are done less and less these days because it's not worth it.

Re:Honest question

[marcello_dl]

Well you see the conspiracy at work here: GP thinks the problem is between rich people and poor people, while the issue is between people who want money as a weapon of control and demolish all competing value systems and all the rest. Many rich people are simply the slaves that believe the "Life is a game and money is how you keep the score" propaganda.
And you dismissing conspiracies in general. Maybe you have seen some debunked? So? Maybe you find other possible explanations? So? Conspiracies are part of history, is there a reason why they should all have stopped now?

Of course what I call a conspiracy might be just convergence of interest. Fine, but the net effect is the same. The effect is that WE are too easy to manipulate. We are naive when it comes to look at the world.

Re:Honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

This may explain the "backwards" agp slot without resorting to conspiracy theories.

Re:Honest question

[oakgrove]

The link you provided is a Google search for lithium batteries. Not lithium-ion batteries like the ones generally used in laptops, cell-phones, etc.

There are several important differences. The practical difference between Lithium batteries and Lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries is that most Lithium batteries are not rechargeable but Li-ion batteries are rechargeable. From a chemical standpoint Lithium batteries use lithium in its pure metallic form. Li-ion batteries use lithium compounds which are much more stable than the elemental lithium used in lithium batteries. A lithium battery should never be recharged while lithium-ion batteries are designed to be recharged hundreds of times.

Lithium ion batteries are not available in standard cells sizes (AA, C and D) like lithium batteries are.

This post was shamelessly ripped from here.

Re:Honest question

[clem]

Why can we standardize on 110 resp. 230 volt in our homes, but not on 18 Volt (or whatever) for a notebook. Your friend didn't realize that here in East Germany we use 220 Volts current. He was found in his hotel room impaled on a large electrical device. Our surgeon did what they could but it took them 2 hours just to get the smile off his face.

Re:Honest question

[00lmz]

They are already doing this. It's called Common Building Blocks. Seems to me like it's mostly used by the smaller players in the market however...

Re:Honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh a government regulated laptop design! great... also why dont they just regulate the keyboard size and screen design also so the waste can be more accuratly accounted for. the government is better to regulate everything! right!?

"next thing you know theyll take my thoughts away"

Re:Honest question

[petermgreen]

Why do laptops not have any kind of universal form factor similar to desktops? Is it because of the varying shapes and sizes of the cases? Couldn't laptop manufacturers just design the case around standardized hardware, thus making it easier to upgrade them (or are they already doing this?)
Take a look at a standard desktop and monitor. Now take a look at a mac mini. and one of dells slim buisness desktops.

the standard desktop is hugely expandable and customisable but you pay a huge size penalty for that flexibility. The dell slim desktop is smaller and still has some room for customisation. The mac mini has similar customisability/upgradability to a laptop.

Laptops do actually use quite a few standardised parts. Wireless cards are generally minipci or minipcie. Hard drives are IDE or SATA with standardised form factors and connector arrangements. CD drives are generally IDE again with a standardised form factor and connector arranagement (though some manufacturers devite from it for various reasons such as wanting a slotload with the slot being an integrated part of the case or wanting to make things slimmer). CPUs where socketed are standardised though a lot of manufacturers use ball grid array processors soldered to the motherboard. Graphics is afaict ususually integrated on the motherboard.

laptop manufacturers differentiate themselves by form factor, ulitimately the quality laptop manufacturers aim is to squeeze as much as possible into as little space as possible and to do so as robustly and/or cheaply as possible. That doesn't tend to sit well with standardised form factors especially for the larger parts (motherboard, screen,battery, keyboard etc).

Re:Honest question

[Confuzzled]

Honest question: How is there not a single highly moderated comment in this entire discussion that's relevant to the article?

The hack is overkill (and the kitchen sink too!), impossible for al layman to understand (those tiny numbered switches do what?), but one cannot deny that it is nerdy, and therefore cool.

Why isn't there a discussion of improvements, cool things you could do with it, etc.

This is really sad.

Re:Honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

Here here. Instead companies do the opposite...like changing the shape of the connector for no reason or... Like this Dell I use from work--and all dell D series I'd bet. The power adapter has a pin (my guess is the one in the middle) that is a communications pin...it tells the laptop "hey I'm a dell branded PS with these specs"....While I guess this could be useful...for say charging at different rates and supporting different devices..they don't concentrate on that. I was on vacation and had to buy a travel adapter, the damn thing didn't charge the battery...oh and the CPU ran at the low speed--that was a fun work week. So the net effect is use a dell power supply or your battery will be useless and the cpu will be slower than you paid for. On the other hand....the dell docking station I use at work warns against using the smaller output AC adapters from dell....Wait wait wait, couldn't they use the info the AC adapter provides via the communications pin? So it looks to me that their priorities are on forcing you to buy Dell branded accessories rather than making their devices more functional. -Glen

Re:Honest question

[evilviper]

http://www.google.com/search?q=lithium+AA+batteries&hl=en&show=dd&sa=N&tab=fw

"Lithium" and "Lithium Ion" are completely and totally different things. Note those "Lithium" batteries are disposable, and NOT rechargeable.

Re:Honest question

[petermgreen]

we wouldn't have Apple's magnetic power coupling.
Magsafe has always seemed a little pointless to me, how often do you see a laptop with only the power cable plugged in?

Re:Honest question

[HuguesT]

The power cable for a laptop is usually the only one dropping all the way down to the floor, likely to trip you and damage the cord and the laptop. I've never seen someone tripped by a mouse cable.

Mice, USB, FW, video and whatnot cables stay on the desktop. I don't know about you but I don't usually walk on my desk.

Re:Honest question

[InakaBoyJoe]

That makes a lot of sense, and in fact, if you bought a mobile phone from NTT DoCoMo in Japan within the last year or so, the AC adaptor was not included by default. Most users are upgrading from a previous phone anyway, and the connector has been standardized for a few years now, so there are lots of options -- even a power brick shaped like Hello Kitty that lights up when your phone is charging.

Anyway, your vision of standardiation in terms of power has been realized for the most part with mobile phones in Japan. It would be so great if notebook manufacturers can get their act together in the same way!

Re:Honest question

[MSZ]

Some Toshiba laptops had an option to remove optical drive and put second battery in it's place. I think other manufacturers also offer this - however you always have to buy that CD/DVD anyway and the battery is extra.

Re:Honest question

[Zebedeu]

I think Dell allows you to configure it without an optical drive and with either a secondary batery or another hard drive. There may be other options, but I don't remember.
You can play with all of these options at their website, it's pretty cool.

Re:Honest question

[petermgreen]

yeah but network cables do and they have this nice little locking tab that ensures if the cable is tripped over it takes the laptop with it.

Re:Honest question

[bhtooefr]

O RLY?

It's not 1.5V, but...

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1336

Re:Honest question

[bhtooefr]

And, Alienware, nVidia, and DAAMIT all have their own specifications for expandable GPUs on their laptops.

Re:Honest question

[misleb]

And, Alienware, nVidia, and DAAMIT all have their own specifications for expandable GPUs on their laptops.

But they are upgradable. So what's the problem?

Re:Honest question

[evilviper]

It's not 1.5V, but...

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1336

It's not 1.5V, it's not in some standard device size, and not sold over the counter at retail stores. That is sold specifically for experts and smaller companies designing and making their own battery packs. You can't use it in ANYTHING in it's current form.

If you look hard enough, you can find all manner of dangerous things online that are not for, and would NEVER be sold to average consumers.

Re:Honest question

[doc_doofus]

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/lithion/ Panasonic makes them, but they are not available to consumers due to safety issues.

pages

[Anonymous Coward]

There are times where splitting an article into multiple pages is overdone, a la Toms Hardware. However, there are also times where it makes sense to split an article into multiple pages. This wiki page with about 50 pictures on it could stand to be split up. (Cue the pedants who will point out that this wiki page isn't actually intended to be presented as an article.)

Is he serving that page from his EEE?

[damn_registrars]

Because it already seems to be slashdotted.

Re:Is he serving that page from his EEE?

[mypalmike]

It's basically a single web page with a hundred photos on it. Bad idea.

Available in the 2nd quarter

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a real shame they did not anticipate the demand for these devices. The latest update is that they will be available for sales in april or so :-( Painful long wait...

Re:Available in the 2nd quarter

[tomkost]

I bought 3 last week. look on pricegrabber.

Do I smell a burning server?

[Anonymous Coward]

A single wiki page full with photos. Who is the sadist that posted this story?

Corel Cache?

[Razed By TV]

There are something like 92 pictures on that page. I don't think his personal wiki is going to be able to survive the onslaught of /. readers. May want to corel cache that next time.

http://beta.ivancover.com.nyud.net:8090/wiki/index.php/Eee_PC_Internal_Upgrades

Hopefully it gets all of the pictures.

Re:Corel Cache?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh, good ol' Corel and their magnificent caching software to the rescue...

It looks like he should have added hardware...

[Anonymous Coward]

to his server!

Slashdotted already!

from Bender's top-10 word list:

[everphilski]

Pimp-mobile!

damn. That was quick.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

I was gone for what - 10 minutes? I come back to check some news, and hit the shortcut to /. bby accident (I was going to NYT), but I figured - OK - I was here 10 min ago, but - Oh Look - an article on the EEEPC - I've been tinking of getting one of those - looks interesting!

Bingo - article was slashdotted. Damn that was quick. 10 minutes. amazing. I think with some effort slashdot could bring the internet itself to its knees...maybe...possibley...kinda...sorta...almost...not really...never happen...fuhgeddaboutit...

RS

Re:damn. That was quick.

[enigmatichmachine]

if your thinking about getting one let me say... do it! I got 2 when they first came out, they work great. 1 is now a linux router (w/usb 10/100 ethernet) and the other is currently running windows XP. works great. I'd go back to the Linux that came with it, as its a great web browser, but oddly enough it boots really fast with winxp, and my t-mobile shadow is a modem in XP. so I've got a laptop with internet that I can fit in my pocket. why bother with 802.11n, bluetooth, gps... phone does gps, usb cable to phone, and 11g is plenty for that little thing to do web browsing.

Re:damn. That was quick.

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember the days when Slashdot, Themes.org, and Freshmeat were all struggling to get better servers.

Back then, even Slashdot would get Slashdotted.

Re:damn. That was quick.

[compro01]

it still does at times. i still get 503 errors every so often.

Re:damn. That was quick.

[windex]

An exception to the above, I have an eee running XP and I did a bluetooth hack, which was totally worth it in my case because I can use my blackberry as a bluetooth modem.

Bluetooth is pretty easy as the extra express card pin out has an integrated USB port and works well, it's actually a little easier in the eee's they removed the express card socket from, since you no longer have to build an adapter and can instead just solder it right to the board.

It's also not odd that it boots XP (or linux, or anything) fast, because it's got a solid state drive. No seek time leads to fast I/O responses, and 90% of booting windows is I/O.

Re:damn. That was quick.

[arth1]

Bingo - article was slashdotted. Damn that was quick. 10 minutes. amazing. I think with some effort slashdot could bring the internet itself to its knees...

Nah, logically that can't happen, because first slashdot itself would get slashdotted, after which there would be little slashdotting for a while.

Re:damn. That was quick.

[CheechWizz]

This time it wasn't slashdot that broke it. That page has been overrun with traffic for the last couple of weeks. I tried 2 weeks ago and it took 15 minutes before all the pictures were loaded.

Re:damn. That was quick.

[Constantine XVI]

I'm pretty sure you're referring to MiniPCI-Express (mPCIe), not ExpressCard. ExpressCard is the PCMCIA replacement, and is external usually.

Re:damn. That was quick.

[RpiMatty]

Can I trade you my Buffalo wireless router for your EEE PC that is being used as a router??
That seems like such a waste of a machine.

Hackaday

[kcbanner]

This was on Hackaday first. FYI.

Looks nice, but does it close back up?

[schnikies79]

Thanks for the coral cache.

It all looks great, but he never shows it back together. Does the keyboard and palm rest actually fit back down on the computer correctly now?

Hacking a laptop is fine, but it should be useful as a laptop.

I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC

[Anonymous Coward]

The eeePC is a nice device. I was on the verge of buying it as a take everywhere device for quick surfing/email checking, perhaps viewing a divx file.
Now I changed my mind and I'd rather go for the iPod touch. Roughly the same price, roughly the same usage (esp when the SDK comes out). And even more portable.

Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC

[Hatta]

How is the ipod touch even in competition with the eee when it doesn't have a Qwerty keyboard?

Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC

[iLogiK]

It kind of has a keyboard (better than most phones, but still no match for an actual keyboard)
If you really want to compare the EEEPC and the touch, it kind of depends what you want from it. If you want something stylish and cool, get an iPod, but since this is /. you'd probably want something more hackable. I'm not talking about adding GPS and stuff like in TFA, but getting your own distro, and your own software easily on it seems more important to me.

Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC

[PrescriptionWarning]

The iPod touch is still by far more difficult for normal internet usage than the eee. The only reason to wait for eee is to get the next gen that will likely have touchscreen and maybe a larger screen.

PS i am currently typing this from my eeePC and I love it :)

Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC

[Anonymous Coward]

the touchscreen keyboard is ok enough for brief emails.
and not having a "real keyboard" makes the ipod touch several times more compact than the eeePc

Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC

[blugu64]

Just for reference, I've been using my 4gb EEE as my main work machine since December, as a replacement for my MacBook. It's exactly what I wanted. The iPod touch in noway can be compared to it, as the EEE would be horrible at being a Touch replacement; and vice versa.

Re:I prefer the iPod Touch over the eeePC

[malevolentjelly]

Yes, but- I am replying to this post on an eeepc... I do lots of schoolwork with it that require office applications. It's actually much more useful than an ipod touch for that reason. It is definitely a step up from an internet device.

Oblig.

[hairykrishna]

Is he running his website off it?

This website hosted by...

[WwWonka]

...my hacked Asus EEE. Feel free to brows%&&&a6 G66HH*78 (*(jjjjjj.....

connecting.....

Not quite done yet

[oddaddresstrap]

The thing won't ready for prime time until it's got a kitchen sink.

Re:Not quite done yet

[Anonymous Coward]

I cannot access the site so I am making some assumptions here but given the initial price and now a 450 upgrade, wouldn't he have gotten more for his money just purchasing a laptop?

299 + 450 a 700 dollar machine?

Assuming he got the low end machine. He could purchase a 500 dollar laptop and spend the 200 dollars on the GPS etc. Dunno guess being broke you kind of look at the practical end and not the geeky wow factors.

Re:Not quite done yet

[oddaddresstrap]

So what if you can buy a laptop and add GPS (and an FM transmitter plus other stuff)? Anybody can do that, all it takes is money and the ability to plug something into a USB port. It's like hiring an architect and contractor to design and build a nice house and then acting like you had some part in the actual construction. Anybody with money can buy a Ferarri, but it takes skill and craftsmanship to actually make one.

This fellow, Torsten Lyngaas, has done something that takes no small amount of skill and knowledge. And did a nice, clean job of it. Hell, most people would be hard-pressed to teardown a laptop and successfully put it back together.

Re:Not quite done yet

[petermgreen]

how many laptops are there in a similar form factor to the eeepc? The only other laptops I know of in that category are the librettos (which are no longer made), some of the smaller vaios (which are iirc larger and a LOT more expensive) and the OLPC (which is afaict even lower spec than the EEE and can't currently run windows).

IIRC the cost of a refurbished final model libretto is about double the price of an eepc plus a big SD card plus a whitebox oem copy of XP pro.

Hackaday link

[Paul Rose]

http://www.hackaday.com/2008/01/19/add-everything-to-your-eeepc/

But what about the power?

[SkOink]

After reading through the Corel cache of it, I can't help but wonder how all of these peripherals affect the battery life of the EEPC. It doesn't look like this guy built in any way to turn the devices _off_ when they aren't in use, which means they probably draw an additional 4 or 5 watts of power continuously. In a laptop PC that might draw 15 watts by itself, that's a significant power drain.

Re:But what about the power?

[FliesLikeABrick]

Did you miss the DIP switches he added in so that he can turn them on/off as he wishes (one switch per device)?

Re:But what about the power?

[peterprior]

Yes he did - half way down ish he describes the process of fitting an 8 switch DIL package that he can access from the memory upgrade panel.

Re:But what about the power?

[Constantine XVI]

IIRC (when I first saw TFA), he put in a switch somewhere to shut off the GPS and BT.

RAM vs. battery life?

[Just Some Guy]

I just got issued an Eee PC for a travelling laptop. So far I'm planning on leaving it in "Easy Mode" - when in Rome, right? I want to spend more time actually using it than hacking on it.

Having said that, 512MB RAM just isn't enough when there isn't swap to fall back on. Anyone know how much the extra capacity will increase power consumption and decrease battery runtime, assuming it takes more current to keep 2GB refreshed than .5GB? And in such things, is CAS 4 any different than CAS 5? Finally, higher speed RAM (such as 667 vs. 533) just means it's specced to run faster, and once you reach the FSB speed you don't act get any benefit, correct?

Sorry for asking here, but most forums I've seen are along the lines of "how do i make the fonts smaller" and are silent on more technical questions.

Re:RAM vs. battery life?

[glop]

Actually, I have read some pretty interesting stuff on the eeeuser.com forums.
They notably explained that when in sleep mode the RAM is refreshed normally (i.e. not with a special low power technique) and uses 2W.

This forces me to turn my EEE off to avoid running out of battery after a day or an night of sleep mode.

I did not see if the 2GB stick made things worse or not... Maybe there is more about this in the eeeuser.com forums.

Re:RAM vs. battery life?

[Drooling Iguana]

The 8G EEE has twice the RAM of the 4G model but it has the same battery and is rated for the same amount of battery life, so I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Re:RAM vs. battery life?

[compro01]

1. good question of ram power use. i can't really find any meaningful stats on the power usage of ram, besides the rule-of-thumb of 15-30W/GB for desktops, which definitely doesn't apply to laptops.

2. i wouldn't think the CAS would make any difference. the performance difference is marginal and i wouldn't think it changes the power use any.

3. yeah, no change in performance, but i also wouldn't using faster rated ram running at the same speed as lower-rated ram would make any difference in power use.

Re:RAM vs. battery life?

[xj]

RAM is a bunch of memory chips stuck on a circuit board. Those chips are rated at how fast the memory can be accessed in nanoseconds. A stick of ram operating at X frequency and X CAS latency will correspond to a given access time in nanoseconds. CAS latency is the number of clock cycles that the computer must wait between accessing the RAM. A company can use lower cost memory chips and sell ram rated at a higher frequency but at the expense of a higher cas latency. If you want the fastest ram possible get the highest frequency and lowest CAS latency. There is nothing to stop you (other than the BIOS settings) from running fast ram at slower settings and lower voltage to save power.

The faster you run a stick of ram the more power it is going to burn. I don't know of a way to figure out exactly how much power a stick of ram is going to use short of testing it or looking up the part number of the memory chips used.

Higher frequency at the same CAS latency = faster
Same frequency lower CAS latency = faster

When you get to slower frequency at lower CAS latency it is not as clear cut, because now the clocks you are using to measure the latency are not the same so even if the latency was the same the CAS latency would not be.

Re:RAM vs. battery life?

[Zerth]

Be aware that the default OS kernel only sees 1 gig. There is a precompiled 2 gig kernel on the eeeuser wiki, or roll your own.

Re:RAM vs. battery life?

[wild_berry]

The only guide I've seen that makes sense about DRAM has timings was at LWN.net and was part of a massive series called What every programmer should know about Memory. Part One explained how dynamic ram picks the words it reads from an access matrix, so requires time to energise the reading portion of the memory cell. IIRC, the answer to your question is in that link, but I can't remember the exact details to recite here.

Re:RAM vs. battery life?

[Just Some Guy]

When you get to slower frequency at lower CAS latency it is not as clear cut, because now the clocks you are using to measure the latency are not the same so even if the latency was the same the CAS latency would not be.

Well, apparently the Eee's FSB is locked to 70MHz, so I'd imagine that the stock DDR2 533 is about as fast as it could possibly take advantage of. I guess what I was really wondering (but expressed poorly) is whether "faster" RAM was the same as "slower" RAM, just certified to work at higher clocks, or if there was some fundamental difference that would affect power consumption (such as earning the higher spec by drawing more voltage or something like that). Crappy car analogy that triggered this question: a Prius at 30MPH gets better mileage than a stock car at 30MPH because they're actually made differently, and holding them back to the same speed won't erase the difference.

Asus aaaw

[ukemike]

Asus aaaw. As in "aaaw my battery is dead already!?!?!"

Re:Asus aaaw

[vux984]

Asus aaaw. As in "aaaw my battery is dead already!?!?!"

Good thing he thought of that and added external power switches so he could turn off the devices he didn't need at any given time, but don't read the article, its much more fun to see off-the-cuff wit like this repeated ad nauseum. ;)

Re:screen?

[digitig]

Use the VGA port on the side, then you can upgrade to any size monitor you like.

screen res

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be all over one of these eee PCs, if they had a model with better screen resolution. 800x480 just doesn't cut it for what I'd be using it for. I think I'd need 1024x768 as a minimum, and would pay more for that res in the same form factor of case.

Oblig part deux

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, but does it run linux?

Re:Oblig part deux

[Anonymous Coward]

yes. yes it does.

And I prefer the N800 over the iPod touch

[DingerX]

no need to wait for no steenkin' SDK!

Seriously, don't underestimate the Eee. The N800 is great for when you're not using a computer, and the Touch works when you want to impress teh b4bes with your disposable income and disposable toys.

What about the EEE 700 (2G Surf), not 701?

[Hobart]

It's not clear from the page whether he's working with the 700 series or the 701 series, although I'm guessing since he didn't have to solder in more RAM (yet he mentions buying a 2GB DDR2 module) he's working with a 701.

Anyone heard about upgrading a 700? (They're $300 off NewEgg)

Re:What about the EEE 700 (2G Surf), not 701?

[Constantine XVI]

AFAIK, the only thing the 700s are missing is the RAM slot and camera. In that case, you should actually have a extra USB header. Note, however, that the 700s have a weaker battery in addition to the soldered-on RAM, so I would keep that in mind.

Hacking the name

[MECC]

Hacking ASUS EEE

Will ASUS come out with an iEEE laptop?

Re:Hacking the name

[juhaz]

Will ASUS come out with an iEEE laptop? No, but they will be shortly releasing AIEEEE -laptop for the whatcouldpossiblygowrong crowd.

Even desktops are not totally standardized...

[RockClimbingFool]

Not every desktop case can fit the latest and greatest video card. I think the main factor is cooling. There is such a wide variety of notebook processors and video cards, you would have dozens of standards. Do you want straight up desktop performance? Mobile gaming? Mobile gaming with battery life? Ultra portable? Large screen with battery life? There are so many ways to optomize a laptop you would have dozens of standards. Not just ATX, Mini-ATX, mid tower, full tower, etc. Actually, that is exactly what you have right now. There are many brand name companies out selling re-branded, "standardized" notebooks.

Who doesn't love Corel?

[copponex]

Free with purchase of any Packard Bell PC. Finest machines ever made.

Offtopic, but relevant to slashdot

[e2d2]

Why is almost every post lately labeled "what could possibly go wrong". Who the fuck is doing that and what is the purpose? Every single thing you do could go wrong, wtf is your point? Do we halt progress you son of a bitch! I throw my hate at you sir!

That being said, what could possibly go wrong?

Re:Offtopic, but relevant to slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is almost every post lately labeled "what could possibly go wrong". Who the fuck is doing that and what is the purpose? Every single thing you do could go wrong, wtf is your point? Do we halt progress you son of a bitch! I throw my hate at you sir!

That being said, what could possibly go wrong? I, sir, tip my hat to your hate throwing. There has been enough mindless cynicism and these naysayers must be stopped!

Re:Offtopic, but relevant to slashdot

[TheBrutalTruth]

Thanks! I need about 500 mod points to mod up your comment, it was overdue... Is Slashdot a trendy - type place now, and I never noticed? Or is it one asshole doing it over and over?

Re:Offtopic, but relevant to slashdot

[EnsilZah]

Am I the only one not caring about tags and unaware of their utility?
I've never seen a "what could possibly go wrong" tag but I've seen quite a few posts complaining about them.

Must be because I'm using RSS and haven't visited the main page in weeks.

Re:First Tits!

[imadoofus]

No they're not! I'm a tech geek! I've got two of them!

OT -- re: your sig

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget to add "whining about slashdot" to your list!

Power bricks

[upside]

One small positive experience for me was IBM Thinkpad power supplies, which stayed the same for years. Until Lenovo came along, that is.

Re:Power bricks

[benplaut]

On the plus side, the new power adaptors work with both the laptop and the dock. Still, I've got three of the old ones sitting around useless.

EeeUser.com first

[hack slash]

Actually the details and link to the users wiki was posted by himself to http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=6380

my IBM Z50 laptop w/NetBSD runs off AA batteries!

[bball99]

- still going strong after all these years... still working via WiFi, still serving up pages, working as a serial controller for high-frequency transceivers and receivers, and still supported by new LiIon batteries...

- but it also came with a AA adapter, which uses (8) AAs and provides five hours of runtime!

mirror

[AngryPenguin47]

mirror, takes awhile but it loads. http://beta.ivancover.com.nyud.net:8080/wiki/index.php/Eee_PC_Internal_Upgrades

Size and heat dissipation

[Rix]

In a desktop, you really only have to worry about fitting in the box. In a laptop, you have to carefully manage a lot less space, and make sure heat generating components are properly ventilated.

I think there may have been a few Dell laptops with a specialized video adaptor, but otherwise they're all part of the motherboard.

Thank you

[Cervantes]

Thank you, to the submitter, and the editor who actually approved it, for finally posting a REAL hacking story. Not some wussy "I changed a config line and now i'm 1337", but a real honest to god hard hack.

Plus, this now sounds like a really cool device. Built in GPS and FM transmitter?
Awesome.

I wanna go dust off my soldering gun now.

Impressive

[gweihir]

Very professionally done. Shows what is within reach without expensive tools. Jusat some dedication, dexterity and insight into electronics needed.

Why no screen upgrade?

[timchampion]

The first thing I thought when I saw the EEE was "Cool, but I bet you could put a much bigger screen on that thing!" And now I see this guy hacking the EEE, and he doesn't put a bigger screen in it? or even mention the possibility!

I think that's the first thing I'd do. Problem being, my hands are too shaky for soldering small things. :(

Re:Why no screen upgrade?

[soulfury]

You can connect it to an external monitor. The resolution is a bit limited though, but it's probably OK. YMMV.

Re:First Tits!

[Anonymous Coward]

He wasn't talking about manboobs!!

dishonest question

[xzvf]

Personally I love my eee. Now I didn't do any hardware upgrades, but changed the OS to Ubuntu and added a Bluetooth dongle, and it is slick as a second PC using my cell for internet access. The key to your question is very few people upgrade their desktops anymore. Most do so via USB. While I'd love open standards for laptop hardware, an easily upgradeable laptop just isn't in demand. Most people don't change their OS when they buy a computer or upgrade when a new version comes out. There are some exceptions, Apple has great success selling point upgrades, PC gamers have buy newer and faster parts, but median users? Nothing. The real issue I have with this guy, is he put Windows XP on a really cool Linux laptop.

ALL wallwarts!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's even more ridiculous when you have a wall-wart and battery (AA/AAA/C/D...) operated device. They'll take 2 AA or 4 AA batteries (which can be 1.2-1.6V depending on whether it's a rechargeable or not). Yet they all say "only use the right adapter for mains use" when the adapter has to have anything (for a 4AA system) 3.2V, 3.6V, 4.5V, 5.2V or 6V. I've seen them at that range. WHY????

Then add on different shapes (different sizes is easy to see: a thin device can't have a thick power connector, but weird shaped ones?) to make sure you can't use a multi-volt adaptor...