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UK Reconsiders 1986 Decision To Ban Astronauts
An anonymous reader writes "The British space agency, BNSC, is reconsidering its 1986 decision to reject all human space missions. The decision has dominated British space policy ever since, leaving Britain out of many American and European space projects. The UK is the only nation in the G8 group of leading economies that does not have a human space flight program. But space enthusiast groups like the British Interplanetary Society are trying to persuade the British government to participate in both manned and unmanned space activities."
David Lister.
Too many viewings of Doctor Who.
maybe they should work on those first.
The real reason we Brits don't send people into space is because you simply cannot get a decent cup of tea there! Manufacturing Bowler Hats to fit over those helmets has proved rather tricky too.
Awful UID - but I have been here ages...
They have too many hands in the British government.
'Same speed C but faster'
Pathetic whimperings of a dying civilization.
If one takes the British position that 'man has no business in space' then there isn't a point to sending robots beyond geostationary orbit either. The whole point of sending robots is that they are cheaper and more expendable to send than humans, thus they are good for the early scouting missions. But if humans aren't eventually going, what is the freaking point?
Democrat delenda est
How can Britain not have a astronaut program, when a country like Nigeria already has astronauts in space. I got an email from one of their astronauts describing the funds to get him back down were in an account that needed to be transferred out of Nigeria in order to gain access to it.
Ok, I read it at first as UK government reconsiders ban on astroids. I've heard of some ridiculous bans, but that would be pretty out there...
living in suburban wasteland, but I can break out, I can be free.
"Gun-toting lard arses in Outer Space"
Stereotypes?.
If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
Maybe they're afraid that they won't be able to keep tabs on the astronauts in space? What's to prevent British astronauts from putting some duct tape over the cameras and engaging in terrorism?!
Ban something, and you may choose to regret not having the option later. The solution? Ban nothing. Or, ban banning.
Sending a person into outer space would put him or her beyond the reach of police surveillance.
That's just not on. What do you think we are in the UK, some kind of namby pamby democracy?
I guess the UK got tired of the United States government's fancy spy stations spying on the rest of the world :)
So the Koreans sent up kimchee, the Japanese had ramen. What wonderful food can the British send up to space with their people?
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Then how do they explain Space 1999?
(Holds up sack.)
England, do you know what these are? Perhaps not. It's been a while, hasn't it. Let me explain: these, dear friends, are your balls. You had them for a while once, back when you were a colonial power, you had big titanium steel ones while you fought the Nazis, and you had pretty good sized ones when you kicked the crap out of Argentina. But ever since you stopped sending humans into space, they've been sitting quietly in a burlap sack, growing old, gathering dust, completely unused while you drink beer and make funny movies and wonder what the hell happened to the England that was.
You know you want them back. You know you want to feel them again, along with the rush and thrill of going places where human beings just weren't designed to go. You know you want it, because that's where we've always gone as a species: where we're not supposed to.
Go on England. Explore space again. Get your balls back.
Until you do, I'll keep them in my lock box, along with the brains of the people who designed City of Heroes. They won't be needing those anytime soon, I assure you.
Love, MAX.
Finding God in a Dog
whoops, that's almost as annoying as someone leaving the caps-lock on, sorry
We've had those for a long time. We call ourselves Americans - though the ones we send up are usually in peak physical condition and might not care much about guns - and we're very proud of our astronauts.
So, who's going to make the crack about missing their vodka and finding orbit warmer than winters back home?
Have we shot any cheese-eating bistro crawlers into space yet?
Mod parent up - seriously, as a brit, it's NOT a troll. It's actually funny, insightful and factually accurate. UK National Health Service dentistry is a bad as it gets.
See hundreds of years ago the equivalent to space exploration was sending a ship around the world. The UK was a leader in this effort. In 1770 a guy called Cook discovered a place called Australia and in 1788 a colonising fleet was sent from the UK to this new world. The new colony succeeded beyond the UK's wildest dreams. It's inhabitants evolved into bronzed, suntanned titans, with physical and mental capabilities beyond anything the UK was remotely capable of. Worst of all they repeatedly whopped the UK at all sports. The final straw was when the Australian colony sent back this thing called Neighbours and destroyed the Queen's English, the foundation of the UK's national identity, culture and pride.
The UK resolved "never again".
:-)
that there will be no scurvy.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Why would they send a man back into space after what happened to Major Tom, and all?
You just need enough dilithium to regulate the warp drive. You'll be there, and back, in no time.
Duh.
I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.
Where there's a will, a rich guy will find a way....
- Eddie Izzard, Dress to Kill
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Now shut the fuck up, stick a damn firecracker up your ass and blast your goddamn way to the moon. If you want I can form a society to do it if you like, we may even get a few dollars from people to do it.
I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
Are you telling me Moonraker wasn't real???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonraker_(film)
WHAT? But Roger Moore is British! It even says so in Wikipedia, so he's been up in space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Moore
It's on Wikipedia. It must be real!
What do you mean that's not real life? I don't understand! That can't be right. If it is how can I ever aspire to having sex in zero G with a gorgeous Russian spy?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
i lol'd
...Keith Richards has already boldly gone where no man has been before.
Shortly after kicking the crap out of Argentina, we realized that nobody liked a bully and decided to stop kicking the crap out of smaller countries. After a short discussion we (as were a small country so we all sit down with the queen for tea and make these decisions), have decided that as a nation we would rather be neutered and not act like a stupid tomcat, that keeps running into danger and getting itself injured. While grand displays of bravery/stupidity were useful when intimidating the rest of the world and creating an empire, we've been their and done that. In this age, we would rather just go to the pub with our friends and drink some REAL bear (we still have a recipe if you want some)and sit around in mediocrity, however were not that fused about it so if all your spending on a space race ruins your economy well make an offer of £100 for our balls.
your sincerely,
England
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Why not? They banded my little tabby here - and I got 'er back after she run off once, when the man who pours linseed oil into the duck's carcasses forgot to slam the lid shut on th eold coal-chute. That's another story there, that is. But it worked for my tabby, and I hear there gonna' band schoolchildren, too. That'll show 'em. Something to find the criminals in jeans, they're saying on Sky. An Astronaut ought to be easier to band than a tabby. And I bet they don't sit under the couch, trying to rub the thing off over their ears all night long, either!
What? You said "ban"? What's that, then? Well, If they're Astronauts or not, I don't think we should let foreigners in, if they can't respect our ways, now. They're no better than the rest of us and that's the truth.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
The reason bureaucrats hate space programs is because it's the one guaranteed area where you can dump as many billions as you want and you will get no measurable progress. All this probery doesn't count- yes it's scientifically invaluable, but it's just enough to keep American voters happy that their tax money is hiring very smart people to make progress in space. No matter how many soil samples we take, launching probes will never get us to Mars, or back to the moon.. and that's just the way it's going to stay because an elected official would have to bring an economy to its knees to do it, and they're not going to stay elected for long.
At this point human spaceflight is at best a propaganda exercise and at worst a complete waste of money. Why should the UK change their stance on the issue? Has human spaceflight become more interesting in the last 20 years? More strategically important? More affordable?
I realize human spaceflight is inspiring but that in itself isn't enough to justify the expenses.
Perhaps that's why manned space flight is banned. Old Pec comes from heaven and we aren't giving it back.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Dear England, We, as an even smaller country, have never kicked the crap out of anyone. (Although for some reason we keep getting asked along as some sort of stupid sidekick) Anyway as a country of avid pub patrons we really want the 'REAL bear' recipe you mentioned. Usually we drink beer in our pubs but we do have a problem with an overpopulation of drop-bears and any demand for their tasty meat would be of great use in culling their numbers. Yours Sincerely, Australia
Actually G7 is when the Finance Ministers of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, United Kingdom and the United States of America meet to discuss economic policy.
G8 is when the heads of government of those countries plus Russia meet to talk about a wide variety of things.
One thing is for sure. They don't have to worry about a dental plan for their astronauts.
Libertas in infinitum
I could be wrong, but I think there actually was a "G8". It was the G7 + one intermediate-level "floater" that changed every year.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Have we shot any cheese-eating bistro crawlers into space yet?
Russia did, and so did NASA.
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/chretien.html
Not to mention others.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Thanks. I'm here all week. Please tip your waiters.
HelLLLOOOO? I mean, it was funny - kudos and all that - but was modded Score 4, Insightful? Weird mods tonight on the Internets.
You guys didn't get it. Torchwood is not real, it's a TV SHOW BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
Unless...
Planning on watching two epis tonight. Heads up, don't watch the episode "Meat" if you're having a late-night snack. Just saying.
So, here's a reference some of you may get: Wasn't Dr. Evil in outer space? He was British! HA HA HA +5 Informative!
OK, stepping off my off-topic box now.
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of my employer, my spouse, my children, or my cats.
Interesting... kind of like the plot of The Producers!
My truck is like a series of tubes.
To the back of the double-decker bus with him!
Also. . . I just have to point out that anybody who complains about racism while exercising religious intolerance in the very same breath probably wouldn't know what to do with an actual fact if they ever happened to find one.
-FL
They have a problem even looking into space as they can't get permission from countries all over the globe to install surveillance cameras pointed at the Space Station. I hear things get pretty wild when the Vodka starts flowing. Who knows what terrorist plots they may be making up there in space.
... of the US just changed the citizenship requirement specification for astronaut candidates. Where is says "Applicants for the Astronaut Candidate Program must be citizens of the United States" add "or of those countries which are allies in space exploration." and have a treaty drawn up that these ally countries can sign so their people can train and fly from here while retaining citizenship. NASA gets more candidates in its pool, UK (probably, eventually) gets some astronauts to brag about.
They could build their own training facility and equipment and staff it, or send them to Baikonur for 5 megapounds each. The former will require they finish training at the site of their choice (or by selection), US or Russia, to be able to fly one one of their missions, the latter gets them fully trained, but to fly on Russian missions only. Doing it themselves would cost a great deal more, because they have to train the trainers; not having a program of their own yet, they don't have anyone qualified to teach it to others. Even if they did, to fly on US missions they'd still be required to train here after initial qualification. In light of this, it seems patently absurd to require they get basic qualification at home when they have to come here for mission training.
I suppose they could send their people to one of the more reasonable countries who have their own training and are willing to take Brits in. But NASA administration has become so politicized that those people probably wouldn't be selected for mission training. When NASA says "you can't" they tend to mean something like "you can't, unless you ask real nice, and you can't a whole lot more if it's with someone else."
And before those who work for or contract to NASA, hacking hardware (including the kind that makes fire at the bottom), software and people get riled and tell me the people who work there aren't like that, yes I know. I know people who work there, and the engineer and scientist types are worthy descendants of the steely eyed missile men with pocket protectors. But you can't deny the political games go on at the top -- I know some that work there, or at least have to work around and with them. A treaty-based program would give the politicreatures something to do, which keeps them happy, and after that training and flying can proceed.
This is all based on the assumption that they're not going to develop a hardware program also. Personally I'd like to see them and the rest of the European Space Agency buy capsules from Russia (so training there becomes a foregone conclusion) and fly them on their own boosters. Hell, they could hire the Russians to build a crew capsule in one of their new Automated Transfer Vehicles and send up a whole squad of their own.
One has to wonder, since so many other ESA countries have had their ESA trained astronauts fly on NASA missions, why UK as an ESA nation doesn't also? It's a fair cop, guv. I'm thinking it's not likely Belgium, with 2 astronauts accepted for NASA missions, has its own astronaut training program. If this is the case, UK doesn't need a program of their own, they need to get with their ESA pals and do the same things.
Or do it the hard way, by yourselves for yourselves. The hard way is good. We chose to go to the moon, not because it was easy, but because it was hard. That was our challenge, but we don't own the concept.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
I'm sure most of our endeavours have been for purely mercantile reasons anyway. We sell foreigners weapons (or simply sail around their country in them) and teach them banking, they sell us spices at knock down prices. Typically we didn't find the foreign countries ourselves, we simply 'won' them from other empires.
No doubt we'll send a gunboat up there in due course, but the robots will have to find something in space that makes a good return on the outlay first. In any case, doing anything for the glory of it is seen as terribly vulgar.
Even Phileas Fogg couldn't stand travelling, desperately wanted to send a droid.
Damned silly bet, almost lost the money his family made from slavery.
Yeah, I was saying that Russia is not a leading economy and does not deserve to be a member of the Gn.
It has the 9th largest GDP in the world by volume, it's growth rate is 8.1% and the percentage of the population below the poverty line is 7%, less than in the United States.
So please forgive us for not understanding your joke since it made absolutely no sense.
You realise that NASA is a US government agency, don't you? Those 'worthless bureaucratic tax feeders' were responsible for just about every advancement into space that the US has ever made...
...with the exception of SpaceShipOne of course. Well done. Of course, SpaceShipTwo will be a joint venture with Virgin Galactic, a British company.
Ironically, you could say that British manned flight is more skewed towards private enterprise than it has ever been in the US.
Crikey... I honestly had no idea we had a space agency. What do they do all day?
"We live in a global world" - Harvey Pitt, former Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman
Hahahahahahahahah!
I would like to know how you could do _anything_ in the uk without bureaucratic intervention, let alone spaceflight.
You can't even leave a vehicle on blocks in your shed without filing a 'Statutory Off Road Notification', good luck assembling rocket propellant and testing radio telemetry gear.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Really, not at all. Only about 11% of voters think the space program should get more, and 44% think it should get cut (source: general social survey); its not the weight of the voters that will keep it funded. For the most part, NASA is funded as a result of a few bureaucrats. Large aerospace contractors are the major reason for funding. The US likes having people have the jobs that support it in the case we need that infrastructure all of a sudden, say in a massive war. Tom Delay, when in office, was a massive supporter of NASA, as he had the appropriate district in Houston. The result that anything science gets funded is almost a wonder; it is more the result of past policy and agreements. NASA also puts a nice face on 'the space program' so the defense department can more easily get away with their quite large program. NASA will get to the moon; it would have been easier 20-30 years ago then now, but the relative expense to the rest of the budget is hardly something to bring 'an economy to its knees.' NASA's budget (~17B a year) makes up around 0.5% of the federal budget. We won't get to Mars because of cosmic rays, not rockets.
Given that the Research Councils have been well and truly done over by the government, to the point where STFC tried to withdraw the UK from Gemini to save money - where the hell are we going to find money for astronauts?!
Reality Show?
:).
:) )
How about "Vote them off the planet!".
We present our candidates:
1) George W Bush
2) Tony Blair
3) Simon Cowell
Get your phones ready to vote.
send <candidate number> to 33333 for return trip
send <candidate number> to 44444 for "one way".
50p per vote, you can vote as many times as you want.
Alternatively visit votethemoff.theplanet.com to vote on line
Conditions and terms apply. Not all candidates will accept the wonderful opportunity to go to space, in which case the organizers will have a good laugh all the way to the bank.
Visit the Hall of Fame at votedoff.theplanet.com to see our past winners.
(note this is not for real - there's no such site or show yet
Anybody who has watched Hyperdrive or Red Dwarf has seen what a disaster the future will be if the Brits are allowed to become a space power!
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
That's what I was thinking. A huge, unwieldy, Kafkaesque nightmare that, on top of everything, really doesn't do anything, is a bureaucrat's wet fucking dream.
Uh, like having better health care for half the cost is not measurable progress?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I'm pretty sure i've heard "Bad teeth in outer space" before. It's a quote from something ... tried googling but got nowhere. Austin Powers?
.
Especially after the problems that the British Experimental Rocket Group had in the 1950s with those three astronauts and that incident in Westminster Abbey.
R Tape loading error, 0:1
The NHS is a bit broad, but the IT project in particular is a gigantic waste of money.
http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/3120062419.htm
My favourite bit of the article is the advert for BUPA.
I've got the spirit, lose the feeling.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I think you parsed his argument wrongly. As I understand it, the argument is that the NHS allows the UK to provide comparable care to the USA at approx. one-half to one-third the cost per capita.
This graph supports that interpretation... http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/images/figure-1.gif
I will not state that the argument is correct or not, only that you misinterpreted it. In my opinion, he is correct in that it is "measurable" as far as an elected official is concerned - he can provide metrics to bolster his claim. Other metrics might be longevity, time spent in hospitals, and so on. That is less the case with a space programme.
Britain has a space agency???
Oh sorry, that bit wasn't the news?
I'm British and even I know St. Patrick's day was yesterday, not today.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
The NHS if horrifically inneficient, at every level. Just like a government agency in fact.
It gets cheaper healthcare, sure, but there's nothing to crow about. It's just tight budgeting. It's not 'better'. The staff are demoralised, the patients are lucky to get 5 minutes with a doctor these days (they're on quotas and must get through as many as possible) and because of this the standard response has become 'take these antibiotics and go away' - leading to other problems - not only rampant misdiagnosis, but the growth of antibiotic resistant diseases.
Case in point - prescriptions. A consultant puts you on a long term drug, but he can't issue it. That has to be done by a GP. For this they require written notice (no email, web, or phone allowed and they don't open weekends of evenings so you have to take time off work to do it). Having received this request it takes them 3-4 days to sign a little piece of paper, which you then have to take more time off work to collect, and manually walk 20 feet to the chemist next door to have it dispensed (which typically takes over an hour). This has to be repeated every month. I know, I go through the whole charade repeatedly.
The amount of waste in just that simple process is horrendous. There's also the lost work time, which doesn't get counted in the cost of the NHS but is a cost nontheless.
It's not just at the patient level - I have friends in the NHS and they talk about the stupid rules where something 1 person could do very quickly but because of the beaurocracy takes days and has to go through multiple people.
We like to think the NHS is the best in the world, but that's just the propoganda. I'd rather be treated in a 3rd world country than some of the hospitals I've seen.
Now that th' space tourism be gainin' momentum, 'tis time t' raise th' swashbuckler jolly rogers!
Yes, and we're also talking about the same agency that forgot that there is a difference between metres and feet.
with their Tang and freeze-dried space food. I wouldn't want them in my neighborhood, or even my country either. Let them stay in space if its so special and wonderful out there.
/Oblique Upright Citizens Brigade reference
Eat the cheeseburger astro-boy!
EOF
After reading "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", the British Space Agency came to conclusion that it's too dangerous to send an english person to the space.
So say we all
unemployed astronauts is quite crowded.
Oh wait, it's just your regular pub, with the usual wretched hive of scum and villainy.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
Notmysig
I'm sorry, but you're really stretching it there. To assume that his one-sentence quip referred exclusively to the NHS budget and was not comparing it to the US model is absurd. There is not enough information in his one sentence to support your claim.
His sentence could be interpreted in many ways. He did not claim "halves the budget" but "is half the cost", and is thus open to interpretation. The one I showed would have been a more valid debate point, but you have chosen to parse it in a way that makes you look smug. Your lack of generosity is revealing.
Wow, is it really that bad? A few years ago when I was younger, if I had a fever or bad stomach ache, my mom could drive me to the family doctor's office and see a doctor within 15 minutes. If I needed a prescription medicine, the doctor wrote it on the spot, and we could take that little slip of paper to any pharmacy in the area to get the medicine within an hour. I think you can even call the pharmacy and tell them to fill the prescription, and they'd have it done by the time you get there, and they just check the prescription before they give anything to you.. and health insurance usually covers most of the cost of the doctor's visit and medicine. I worked as a cashier in a supermarket/pharmacy and saw dozens of little pharmacy baggies where the copay was $15 and the insurance company was paying hundreds or thousands of dollars. Of course that money has to come from somewhere- I bet health insurance is horrifyingly expensive.
I don't know why your consultant won't sign a prescription, my neurologist would do it regularly so that I could pick up the new medication from the hospital pharmacy. Any repeat prescriptions after that are done by my GP though.
*pharmacies aren't government controlled; if the one you go to takes over an hour, visit another one; I rarely have to wait over 15 minutes, even on the rare occasions I have to visit Boots they take a maximum 30 to 45 mins. Get to know your local independent pharmacist, he'll give you better customer service for it.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
So, tone it down a little. OK, then I want to be shoe salesman. /better not be obscure
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
Um, your link isn't quite right. Try this.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Very well. I shall not argue this point any more. I only wished not to argue, but to point out that there is not merely one interpretation. Comments here tend to be worded ambiguously, and I only thought it wiser to be generous in interpreting. Most likely I took you as more earnest, and left no room for interpreting your comment as playful. The ironic part is that I ignored the very advice I wanted to give!
Not all bureaucrats are corrupt. The vast majority do a good job. No, I'm not a bureaucrat, but I've known thousands over the years and they are almost always hard working honourable people. The few exceptions make the rest look bad - just like in politics.
Only boring people are ever bored.
How does that graph support any interpretation? All it shows are costs - it doesn't say anything about quality or level of care.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
The graph supports the meta-argument that health care (in this case, the NHS since we're talking about UK politicians) provides metrics that the politician can use. As the poster said, "good health care for half the cost". The politician could use statistics like this to justify NHS spending. This was less the case with manned spaceflight, making it harder for the politician to show direct benefits from the programme.