Hawking Searching For Africa's Einsteins

nuke-alwin writes "Stephen Hawking has traveled to South Africa in search of Africa's Einsteins. The project will create Africa's first post-graduate center for math and physics. The British government has unfortunately decided not to back the project, which is hoping to fight poverty by identifying the kind of talent that can create wealth." Neil Turok is deeply involved as well; he was recently named to head the Perimeter Institute in Canada, whose server we brought to its knees this morning.

Comments

Wrong choice

[Anonymous Coward]

Africans don't have the brain capacity to be like Einstein.

Re:Wrong choice

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have brain capacity to be like africans.

Re:Wrong choice

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have the brain capacity to be like Africans

Fixed that for you, you dumbass nigger.

Re:Wrong choice

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, now THAT was funny.

Niel Turok

[moderatorrater]

Niel Turok was quoted as saying, "I'll also help defend the starving African children from rampaging dinosaurs, free of charge."

Re:Niel Turok

[Anonymous Coward]

I see you idiots are all clinging onto the work "Turok", anything but admit - there are no 'Einsteins' in Africa. Africans have an average IQ of less than 85, in some African countries the average is less than SEVENTY.

What do blacks offer WHITES when they come to OUR countries? Nothing but crime and misery.

Re:Niel Turok

[beckerist]

If you look at his pic (grabbed here from here, he looks like an "if they mated" with Tom Hanks and Bill Nye the Science Guy.

Is this old "news" they on slashsuck

[lennyhell]

CmdrTaco, you suck ass. Also: Niggers Niggers Niggers.

Re:Is this old "news" they on slashsuck

[moderatorrater]

I don't know how this got modded down considering the two insightful points he brought up.

Slashdot effect 2.0?

[Anonymous Coward]

Neil Turok is deeply involved as well; he was recently named to head the Perimeter Institute in Canada, whose server we brought to its knees this morning. Is this the Web 2.0 Slashdot Effect, which crashes servers twice?

Re:Slashdot effect 2.0?

[sm62704]

Servers got knees? What's a server need knees for?

Oh, you mean server. I thought you were talking about the computer. Silly me.

Brain drain, ver 0.1

[CogDissident]

So, if these math geniuses get a degree there, whats to keep them from just moving out of country? Nothing? Honestly, if I were born in an absolutely impoverished country, and ended up being a genius and getting a graduate degree in mathematics, I'm sure I'd hop on the first chance at a big corporate job in some other country.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they're not tools. I know many Indian (real India) and Chinese nationals who plan to move back to their "impoverished" countries to work and play.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[yodleboy]

that may be true, but i've notice that a lot of smart, wealthy successful people eventually "go home" in some sense, not always physically, of course. They may donate to local causes, invest, become involved in politics or advocacy. whatever they do, they probably would not have been able without opportunities like this.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[CRCulver]

A lot of people who get big corporate jobs in wealthy countries send money back to where they came from, benefitting the local economy. Go to Moroccan villages and you can see loads of fancy houses being built by people currently working in France who plan on coming home and retiring early. Software engineers from India who have come to the U.S. after training in India have gone home after a few years and founded companies with the money they saved. Cities in Romania like Cluj enjoy higher standards of living than other parts of the country because, thanks to the good education and English-language skills, people work hard abroad and then come back to indulge themselves. The list goes on and on. If you train people in a poor country, many will go and never return. However, some will make something of themselves abroad with their education and come back, which is a win for the local economy.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Morris Thorpe]

That's you - and many others I'm sure.

You don't know what it's like to grow up in an impoverished country. Hence you don't know what it's like to hurt for your country and to have a sense of duty to make it better.

Also, just because the talent is exported, people can still do great things to enable others to become great. You see this in soccer all the time. African talent is being exported to the top clubs in Europe but many players go back home to establish soccer academies, schools and the like.

Hats off to Hawking.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[edisrafeht]

Whether they go back home or not is not as important as providing the opportunity for these gifted individuals. They may still contribute something to the world, regardless of their location.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[MightyYar]

I personally know someone who attended a good college here in the states, got a job with MS back in the late 80s/early 90s, cashed out, and moved back to Africa to found a college.

Some people do genuinely have a feeling of responsibility.

That aside, it is an established fact that people living outside impoverished areas send a lot of money back home. In some countries, this is the primary source of foreign currency.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[WaltBusterkeys]

i've notice[d] that a lot of smart, wealthy successful people And how many of those wealthy successful people were mathematicians and physicists? Smart, certainly. But wealthy?

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[nxsty]

Perhaps you'd feel some kind of loyalty to the country where you where born? If I where in that situation I'd probably try to do something to help the country rather than just leave.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Tablizer]

So, if these math geniuses get a degree there, whats to keep them from just moving out of country? Nothing? Honestly, if I were born in an absolutely impoverished country, and ended up being a genius and getting a graduate degree in mathematics, I'm sure I'd hop on the first chance at a big corporate job in some other country.

I have an urge to make a comment about H-1B's, but I'll resist this time.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Nibbler999]

Maybe in western countries, but in less advantaged places people have the opinion that their country has not done anything to help them so they owe it nothing.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[CogDissident]

Not as much of a win as keeping them in-country the entire time. The countries still loose out overall. They're starting with college degrees already, and these people could help significantly by being engineers and such in their home countries.

Honestly, I don't begrudge them wanting better for themselves and their family if they send money home (would do the same myself), I'm just looking at it from a national perspective.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Cairnarvon]

I'm sure the family you leave behind in said poverty would love you for it, too. Nobody grows up in a vacuum.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[JaredOfEuropa]

So, if these math geniuses get a degree there, whats to keep them from just moving out of country? Nothing? Honestly, if I were born in an absolutely impoverished country, and ended up being a genius and getting a graduate degree in mathematics, I'm sure I'd hop on the first chance at a big corporate job in some other country.

Would you? Perhaps for a while; a good many graduates from both first and third world countries fancy the idea of working abroad for a while. But not many people have the blood to permanently settle somewhere else.

Also remember that as a good scientist in the employ of a western corporation, you may make a decent income in "the west", but at home you'll live like a king. I know a few western expats who have trouble returning to their own wealthy countries for just that reason.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

Because -as hard as it may be to believe this for you- some people actually have an attachment to their birth country.

Why ? Because big corporate jobs are lonely, strange and unfulfilling. A wife and family in your birth country is what most prefer.

And some people have morals and see that as a chance to give back.

Or they get older and take a teaching position in their home country.

Lots of reasons.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[k33l0r]

Actually a lot of people living in poorer countries would like to help their own country. In fact a lot of the foreign students studying with me (here in Finland) ultimately wish to return to their home countries.

Just 'cause you're a selfish bastard, doesn't mean that everybody else is.

What's more, most of the big corps are eager to get to the up and coming markets of developing nations.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Missing_dc]

Your statement sounds like a lack of pride in your country and people.
The administrators of this program would do well to foster that pride and perhaps make a contributory stipulation where those who benefit from the schooling have to make a contribution to their country's wellbeing.

just my $.02

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[joeman3429]

The more you know *rainbow star goes by*

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[ne0n]

Why would you try to stop someone from leaving Africa to pursue of a better life?
I mean, wouldn't that be kind of a ripoff.. go to school, work hard to get out of the ghetto (or ghetto continent, in this case) and then be told by a first-world wanker that you can't leave?

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[the brown guy]

I'd hop on the first chance at a big corporate job in some other country. In my village in Northern India, more and more people are moving back to the village, after going to universities in Canada, the USA and England, and having become (relatively) rich. My dad is a first generation immigrant to Canada from India, and we are a middle class family, my dad drives a taxi (I know, stereotypical,) and my mom works in a bank. My dad just went back to India last month to build 4 3 story houses in our village, one for him (when he goes back) and 3 for his brothers and their families. A little money goes a long way in these impoverished regions, and not only does this stimulate the local economy with all the construction, but when I went there my dad paid for a year of broadband internet for the local school, and I am saving up for a dozen or so cheap desktop computers to bring there next time I go.
The point is that when people go back to the poor areas where they or their ancestors grew up, the feel a duty to improve the quality of life for the residents there.
The lucky few that get out, generally will try and make it easier for others to get out, and as time goes on the quality of life can only get better.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[LWATCDR]

What is to prevent them from sitting around and doing nothing?
Some will get out and never look back. Some will go and work someplace else and send money back. Some will leave and work someplace else and then go back. Some will stay and become teachers or start there own companies.
The thing is that more educated people should make the whole world better. It will probably make some African nations better.
But as they say on Long Island. It can't hurt.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[HungSoLow]

Corporate job? You've lived a sheltered life.

I grew up near the poverty line, mind you nothing like the troubles many Africans face. I've done my undergrad and masters in EE, purely on academic scholarships and internships. I'm currently starting my doctorate and plan to stay in Canada for my academic life. I've been offered 60k, 75k, 80k high-tech positions etc.. by headhunters and I've turned them all down. Why? Because money doesn't drive me, because I know how meaningless it truly is. You would be surprised about people who are destitute, and how they view life. It *could* be because you've grown up with money around you your whole life, but I wouldn't want to presume your intentions. It is, however, the problem with many people making the same choices you propose.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[klagermkii]

Despite how people play the "brain drain" story, how many people in any country even feel that the job they're doing REALLY benefits their country directly? Sure you may feel you're benefiting your company/boss, but your contribution feels so diluted by the time it reaches the country level it doesn't even matter.

One can talk about "some kind of loyalty to the country" but calling that into question based on taking a overseas job because you want better pay to help support yourself and your family is utterly unfair. We all want to see our country do well, but sometimes you can help more by becoming an export that keeps paying the country back. If you want to use nonsense metrics to compare ones sense of civic duty, why don't you compare voter turnout: US voter turnout in 2004 was 56%, compared to South Africa at 77%.

(I am South African, I have worked in the UK, I am now living back in South Africa and did bring money back.)

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[ChrisA90278]

Yes many would leave. But typically what they do they send money back home. And then there are the really smart ones. they find ways to make maoney right at home by building solar heating systemd from junk or something along those lines

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Ihmhi]

I'm pretty sure there's loads of math involved in economics and things like managing hedge funds. Don't CEOs make something on the order of 10 trillion dollars a second?

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Metasquares]

If this is the same person I'm thinking of, he gave a TED talk on Africa and his university not long ago.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[zippthorne]

Well.. certainly more math than you've demonstrated the capacity for...

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[FLEB]

It's a jumpstart, and certainly better than either doing nothing or sinking money into "give a man a fish, feed him for one day" type aid. Even people who leave would be more likely to send money, start projects, or focus valuable influence toward their homeland.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Original Replica]

India and China have seriously better prospects than say Sierra Leone or Ethiopia. By contrast to many Sub-Saharan African countries where there is no wealth to be had, China gained 50 new billionaires in 2007 and India has three of the world's ten richest people. While they aren't yet at the EU's standard of living, to call modern day China or India impoverished is laughable.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Original Replica]

They are only more of an asset to their country by staying home, if the countries problems can be solved with math. Brilliant engineering isn't going to make Darfur a good place to live. Ethiopia's famines are not brought on by a lack of agricultural knowledge. Proving corruption mathematically isn't going to make corrupt government officials suddenly altruistic.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[uranus65]

This guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harris_Simons/ uses math to bring in the big dough.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[puto]

What impoverished country are you from?

And if you are, how long did you live there, and where are you now and how long have you been there?

Many people who make it big do go home to help, but it is do to tax breaks and PR ops. There is very little altruism involved. I am not saying there are not good people out there, but money and fame tend to make you forget where you come from.

I grew up in New Orleans, which is the third world, and my dad is from Colombia. I go to Colombia and live for six months to a year at the time teaching technology and english, and I do not toot my own horn, I just help the people from my own particular background. I have done five years straight working for pesos and living in my fathers country. I did not pay it lip service, I went native.

Though i will give you that you like william gibson. The third and first world are coming togther. The us is becoming Cases' playground, and Dubai could perhpas Straylight. I live in the strand.

Puto

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[ppanon]

The philanthropy is also just a smart move. If you've acquired a lot of riches and move into an impoverished area, you'll be a big target for any of the less ethical elements of the population. If you've spread enough of your money around in good works in your neighbourhood, then you'll have acquired a good reputation. People will look more favourably on you and will be more likely to provide support if you become a target of criminal elements. It's a lot harder for a criminal to portray himself as Robin Hood when he targets your belongings if you already do good works to help those poorer than you.

Now I'm not trying to belittle you or say that's the sole reason why you would be performing such deeds; I'm sure you're also motivated by altruistic empathy for those in your village. But it doesn't hurt either.

BTW, what is the state of the caste system in your area? Will all population members have equal access? If there is still caste stratification, have you made any efforts to liberalize people's attitudes? I think that's another area where returning expatriates could have a big influence.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[MightyYar]

Ha! That's him! And here I was being slightly vague trying not to reveal too much about him :)

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[0111 1110]

Ah. Locombia. My favorite Latin American country. Where the girls are pretty and the people are some of the nicest and friendliest on Earth. Living in the USA is good for making and spending money (the internet!!), but it's not so good for just living your life. If you just want to be happy and are not very materialistic I think Colombia is a much better place to live. Of course it sucks to only get paid $10/day. But I think many Colombians would be unhappy here. There are any number of third world countries that I would rather live in than the US or Canada.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[corbettw]

Not as much of a win as keeping them in-country the entire time. Except that impoverished countries are missing another critical element to escaping poverty: capital. When their best and brightest go forth and earn lots of money, then either send it home or come back, it acts as a catalyst that can fuel further development.

Even in countries with lots of natural resources (Nigeria, for example), there's very little if any capital floating around. You can't expect someone to create a multi-billion dollar company from scratch.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[andrewm_za]

So, if these math geniuses get a degree there, whats to keep them from just moving out of country?

Moving to a first world country on an African passport is easier said than done. Even a PhD needs an H1-B visa to get into America, and applying for that is literally entering a lottery. The UK is more lenient if you have British ancestry, but that doesn't help the black folk.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[the brown guy]

One of the issues that I have with my dad building the houses etc is that there will still be people who are basically servants, who are of a lower caste. We are traditionally farmers, Jatts, and are normally pretty average on the caste hierarchy, but because so many Jatts moved to Canada/England and the US, they have become more affluent and returned with their newfound riches to try and better the lives of the people who can't leave. I would like to say that there is no classism, but classist undertones are felt throughout the community. The kids of all castes go to school together, there are affirmative action-like programs to try and get people of lower castes to get government jobs (where they will probably become corrupt/rich, the dream of way too many Indians.)
My close family is comparatively liberal and accepting, but far from perfect. My uncle married a white woman, I have some cousins who are half Filipino etc, but inter caste marriages are hard to come by, personally, I would try and avoid "shaming" my family, because I know that my extended family would be pissed, and being alienated is basically a guarantee.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[eennaarbrak]

O FFS, using extreme examples like Sierra Leone to generalize about Africa is just ridiculous. I live in South Africa, and there are a lot of bright people here, both South Africans and from other African countries. We need an initiative like this - if some of the people choose to leave with their skills, so be it, but many will choose to stay and apply their knowledge here. With your reasoning: Maybe the USA should stop building universities, because we all know Noth American countries like Nicaragua and Honduras are dirt poor and just a waste of any attempt at excellence.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[eennaarbrak]

I grew up in New Orleans, which is the third world

You're kidding, right?

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[LurkerXD]

But that brings another point - having a more educated populace tends to help with governmental problems as well. The reason being, smarter people are in a lot better equipped to notice and speak out when their government is screwing them. Also, assuming they do go elsewhere to make their fortunes, they then have financial resources to potentially do something about the issue.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Hal_Porter]

Yeah, but I've met math PhDs who look at you resentfully if you say "Do you want fries with that? That'll be $15.97 in total, which by the way is a the Phi times Pi to 2 decimal places"

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Hal_Porter]

That's a bit patronizing. I suspect most of people in these countries notice their government is screwing them, and if they're educated they're just more likely to know exactly what is likely to happen if they speak up.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Hal_Porter]

Why? Some countries are going to succeed and some will fail. Some cultures are good and some are bad. Why give welfare to failing cultures? If people from those cultures want go somewhere else where they'll be appreciated let 'em.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Anonymous Coward]

70% of India population live under the poverty line... I call this artificially impoverished... the potentials of the nation are there, as well as the greedy bastards.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[ppanon]

Understood. Thanks for the honest reply.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Doctor O]

It might not have occurred to you, but they might actually *like* their country. It might suck in several ways, but it's still their *home*.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Undead NDR]

So, if these math geniuses get a degree there, whats to keep them from just moving out of country? Nothing? Honestly, if I were born in an absolutely impoverished country, and ended up being a genius and getting a graduate degree in mathematics, I'm sure I'd hop on the first chance at a big corporate job in some other country.

You know, some people might prefer to stay at home and help improve their own country.

Also, some might feel indebted to their own country for the free education they received, thanks to taxpayer money.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Builder]

South Africa is absolutely NOT representative of Africa. I've been to Nigeria, Niger, Togo, Benin, DRC, Congo Brazzaville, Ivory Coast and Central African Republic in the last 6 months.

Not ONE of these places comes anywhere close to even swaziland!

The GPs issue was surrounding brain drain. As in, once these people have the degree, why won't they run off elsewhere. The above countries are absolutely shit with very redeeming features that I found and I know that most of the people that I was dealing with in these places are desperate to get out.

Hell, even SA is suffering from a major brain drain today with hundreds of thousands of young citizens of all races living and working in the UK, Canada, the USA and Australia just to name a few places.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[BECoole]

You should look into getting some computers donated. Companies are always looking for ways to get rid of old equipment. Call some of the schools in your area and ask them if there are organizations that take these computers, fix them and then donate them to the schools.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Builder]

Fuck national loyalty. When the country passes laws and sets up industry bodies that mean I can't get a job just because of the colour of my skin, loyalty goes out the window.

Feeding my family comes first, and there are plenty of companies in other countries that seem happy to employ me despite my lack of a degree or paper qualifications.

I served my time there - I got shot at for my troubles. I did my bit to change the place, signed on as a police reservist with all the shit that this brought with it for me and my family. Then the government started making rules that said I couldn't get a job with a big company because I didn't go to university, so I started my own business. Then the government made rules that said if I wanted to trade with certain bodies or made more than a certain amount of turnover per year, I had to give half my company to someone. So I left and took it all with me - well thought out there guys!

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah. Locombia. My favorite Latin American country. Where the girls are pretty and the people are some of the nicest and friendliest on Earth. Yes, where they'll disappear your ass straight into the third world abyss in record time. Hopefully you have contacts in the first world with 100k dollars for the "ransom".

Living in the USA is good for making and spending money (the internet!!), but it's not so good for just living your life. I'll take my first world medical care and semi-corrupt cops over your third world medical care and completely corrupt (and by some accounts illiterate) law enforcement any day of the week.

Try again.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[totallyarb]

...whats to keep them from just moving out of country? Nothing?

It seems that your views are popular among policy-makers in Africa.

In April 2004, South African Minister for Education Kader Asmal called for "a stricter regulation of the international movement of professionals," in an effort to counter brain drain. This year, unannounced, the government put into place the first example of this regulation by pressuring its Universities into forbidding foreign-based companies from contacting students with a view to recruitment.

I'm a South African working for a small London-based consultancy. I was hired because the company's Technical Director, a graduate of the University of Cape Town, had dropped an email to his old lecturers asking if they had any students who might be interested in a job in London. Last year, I used the same approach to hire a new member of the technical team, and that worked out so well that I thought I'd try it again this year. Unfortunately, this time around the powers that be intervened, telling me that contact was forbidden.

It seems that rather than trying to hold onto graduates by making working life in South Africa more attractive, they're gone for the quick-and-dirty fix of trying to shield them from the outside world. If you can't see the grass on the other side, how do you know it's greener?

As many other posters on this thread have said, that kind of short-term thinking is counter-productive. How would you feel if, as a skilled African, your government tried to make it harder for you to get a job overseas? Would it inspire a sense of national pride or loyalty? No. You'd be more inclined than ever to leave, and less inclined to come back one day.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah! It worked for T'chaka in the tiny nation of Wakanda!

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[shutdown -p now]

I wish I had mod points to mod you Informative. That is precisely the reason I seek to leave my country, and I absolutely do not feel obliged to help it in any way. The people here essentially screw themselves over again and again, they've had real democracy, they've had the vote - and they voted against ever having to vote freely again. Well, it's their choice - and I'm not going to waste any more time on trying to change that.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Hognoxious]

Go to Moroccan villages and you can see loads of fancy houses being built by people currently working in France who plan on coming home and retiring early.

Chomeurs can retire early?

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Anonymous Coward]

/yep
Africa is a big continent will all kinds of people and governments.

Bottom line is while extremely intelligent people are rare, the distribution of people with potential for greatness, among the worlds peoples (assuming proper nutrition and equal educational opportunity) is probably dead even.

Diet and lack of educational resources are the only things holding them back.

Not finding the geniuses hurts the entire world, not just the country where they live since if they are allowed to flourish their work can have immeasurable benefit to all of mankind. It's a sin to let this type of potential go to waste.

-AC

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[fugue]

1. "If we educate our people, they will leave. So there's no point in any investment in mobile assets."
2. There are plenty of nationalists/patriots/racists who will stay.
3. There are plenty of people, especially the well-educated, who have forsaken the petty ideology of competing countries and instead see a big picture encompassing the world. More educated people in the world is a Good Thing. Do I need to explain why?

If you educate n people, m n will leave. I wonder what this system will cost...

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[T.E.D.]

So, if these math geniuses get a degree there, whats to keep them from just moving out of country? Nothing?

Helping their countries isn't nessecarily the entire point of the effort. What about the benifit to the rest of us in finding these people and nurturing their talents? I've met enough people from Africa to understand that they have the same range of intelligence as people in my country. So simple mathematics says that a large proportion of the greatest minds in the world are today being wasted simply working out how to survive from day to day.

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[Original Replica]

I wasn't saying that any one should stop building universities, I was pointing towards a likelihood of graduates using their new degrees as a tool to leave the country and never return. South Africa is a country with plenty of possibilities to make real progress and have a good life if you are equipped with a good education, there are reasons for graduates to stay. I would hope that SA would be the home to many fine universities, and like the US, SA is entirely capable of establishing a new university without major outside assistance. That makes SA the exception in sub-Saharan Africa. The majority of the other countries on your continent are severely lacking in the stability and reliability of government and other social institutions. This is a major cause of continuing poverty:

World Bank environmental economist Kirk Hamilton and his team in the bank's environment department have found that most of humanity's wealth isn't made of physical stuff. It is intangible. In their extraordinary but vastly underappreciated report, Where Is The Wealth Of Nations?: Measuring Capital for the 21st Century, Hamilton's team found that "human capital and the value of institutions (as measured by rule of law) constitute the largest share of wealth in virtually all countries."

Re:Brain drain, ver 0.1

[jacquesm]

actually, you'd be wrong about the medical care, which in Colombia is some of the best that you could get anywhere on the planet.

try again :)

You're somewhat right about the kidnappings though, I've been to Colombia and have not been kidnapped so maybe I got lucky...

and the take home lesson is?

[circletimessquare]

Neil Turok is deeply involved as well; he was recently named to head the Perimeter Institute in Canada, whose server we brought to its knees this morning.

go in search of africa's einsteins, find africa's botlords?

And when they find one, the headline will be

[Anonymous Coward]

Hawking finds some African math guy.

Einstein didn't create much wealth

[melted]

If he's looking to create wealth, he needs to be looking for an African Warren Buffet.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[SBacks]

Unfortunately, theoretical physics is not very practical and therefore does not create much wealth. Additionally, any students this program does identify will most likely leave the country as South Africa is not known for their research centers/universities. It seems like this is more of a way for bright students to escape an impoverished area rather than an actual benefit to the area itself.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[qbzzt]

He's Hawking, identifying investment talent is not one of his skills.

The whole fighting poverty line is probably just marketing. It's a good thing to help potential brilliant scientists, but the economic payoff can often decades or centuries in the future and it will be reaped by whoever develops the technology that uses the science.

To fight poverty, you need to encourage business initiative, which gives a much faster payoff.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[sm62704]

Some of us prize knowledgs and wisdom far more than money. Not everyone worships at the alter af mammon.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

While Math, Science, and Engineering are important and should be bolstered, they don't drive business, but are rather the tools or business. Their money would be better spent on starting up entrepreneurial MBA programs.

I wish it were different (I have a MS in science), but lets be realistic. Hawking has blinders on and equates the world to his experience.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[bsDaemon]

So, then you'll have a country full of managers without anyone around to actually make products?

South Africa has enough problems of its own without trying to imitate America in the current race to the bottom.

You need both engineers and business people, or you have nothing.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Complete with 4 spelling errors in two sentences. It's clear you don't worship at the "alter" of Collin's English Dictionary.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[megaditto]

Unfortunately, theoretical physics is not very practical and therefore does not create much wealth. You are kidding, right?

I don't even know where to begin, but here are some counterexamples of theoretical physics being quite practical: nuclear fission reactors, fusion weapons, transistors/microchips, computers, internet, TVs, sattelites/GPS, cell phones and wireless comms, MRI and PET scans, electron microscopy, LASERs...

See, I think you are making the same mistake of underestimating theoretical physics as the Germans did in the 1930s...

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Singularitarian2048]

Considering the fundamental role Einstein played in the eventual invention of nuclear reactors, and his role as one of the pioneers of Quantum Mechanics, couldn't you argue that Einstein was one of the greatest wealth creators of all time?

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[TerranFury]

I was going to point out something like that too, but you beat me to it. Still, I'll point out another angle:

It's true: Einstein didn't make much money for himself. In fact, the statue of him in Washington DC looks like a homeless man.

But "didn't create wealth?" I'd say that in the bigger picture, he did create wealth -- even under the narrow economic definition, "wealth = money." His theories have advanced technology and helped society to create a great deal more wealth: GPS for instance has obvious economic benefits, and depends on General Relativity (since the satellites orbit higher in Earth's gravitational well, the clocks at the heart of GPS run at different speeds. No Einstein, no General Relativity, no GPS.) I'm sure this isn't the only example, but it's the first to spring to mind.

Of course, you can also make the point that there is more to wealth than money. Artistic works represent cultural wealth, for instance; so does science. But others have made that point, so I won't spend more time on it.

That said, I'm not discounting your point: Great ideas that come from African geniuses will surely enrich the world, but they will most enrich those nations with the money to turn those ideas into profitable products. Even if the discoverer collects some sort of royalties, it will simply make him individually wealthy; it will not create industry in Africa.

But Hawking's search is still a good thing. It may not do much in the immediate term for Africa, but it's still good for humanity, and so, eventually, for Africa.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[SBacks]

That's a very good point.

But, there's a bit of a leap when you go from laying down the theory to turning it into consumer products. And, that leap usually requires a large corporate/government R&D program with huge budgets and teams of people from a wide range of disciplines.

One or two "Einstein"s are not going to be able to take an idea from pure conceptualization all the way to an end product where the wealth return really happens. S Africa, unfortunately, doesn't have that large corporate or government infrastructure to achieve this.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[bitrex]

Something like: "Theoretical physicists turn money into ideas. Engineers turn ideas into money."

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

>If he's looking to create wealth, he needs to be looking for an African Warren Buffet.
I'm pretty sure cannibalism is frowned upon in most places in Africa these days.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really think physicists in a poor country can create wealth to its country?

I'm a physicist from Argentina. It is not a really poor country and we have plenty of physicists (and lots of scientists).

No physicist I know could make an electron microscopy, laser, satellite, computer or even a transistor. Even if most of them know the basics behind each of those technologies, it is more an engineer work to build one (and you need millions of dollars probably just to build a prototype). Indeed, there is a national hi-tech company here called INVAP (check the wikipedia entry). It builds satellites and nuclear reactors mainly. But most of its employees are engineers.

That company took decades of work and lots of public funds to be able to develop something they could sell. And of course, a high level university with hard working mediocre graduates (mediocre as opposed as enlightened geniuses). And we are talking about physical theories that were half a century old when INVAP was funded.

So, if Hawking finds a genius in South Africa, and if the guy decides to stay there, and if he develops a theory that could be the next big thing... Do you think a third world country would have the funds, manpower and industrial politics to develop and patent the actual technology? Keep dreaming.

I think allowing people to have a post graduate title is right from a human perspective since everyone deserves a chance of growing to his full potential. And it is even better if he doesn't have to leave his country to do so. It is also great for the world as a whole if that post graduate turns out to be the next Einstein. But it doesn't mean anything in terms of wealth to a third world country.

Think about my country. Invap was the exception of a company surviving state coups, hyperinflation, privatizations and all sorts of economic disasters. Not only the exception in Argentina, but it is an exception in Latin America as a whole.

In terms of industry, we can't even get to build a competent industry around agriculture (our main source of income).

We don't need a genius, we need to put our s**t together and decide what are we going to do about our future, and then keep that vision during decades in order for it to flourish.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[eennaarbrak]

South Africa is a developing country - and I mean developing as in development is taking place, not as in third world backwards etc. There is a lot of well paying work here for people with maths and science. Engineers are also in short supply. A bright African student, with otherwise no hope of advancing his education in maths/science, will jump at an opportunity to attend a local center of excellence, get an education, and apply for one of these jobs. And not everyone is aiming for the Einstein level of excellence when it comes to scientific career - many people (most, in fact), would settle for a secure, well paying, satisfying job.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Hal_Porter]

That's what happens to you when you fuck with Mammon!

Now if you excuse me, I feel the need to do some shopping.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[MadMidnightBomber]

Why do you hate America?

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[sm62704]

Touche' - but I see one misspelling (altar) and one obvious typo (knowledgs). I assume you're perfect and never make any mistakes at all when you employ your ad hominem attacks, mister anonymous?

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Hognoxious]

You need both engineers and business people, or you have nothing.

I used to think the worst possible situation was when you have technical people making business decisions - until I saw it done the other way round.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Bastard of Subhumani]

couldn't you argue that Einstein was one of the greatest wealth creators of all time?

If you used to own any real estate in Hiroshima you'd probably have the opposite point of view.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[bsDaemon]

Intel was started by engineers who left Texas Instruments after having invented the microprocessor... they seem to be doing pretty well, honestly.

Re:Einstein didn't create much wealth

[Hognoxious]

Are those same guys still running it on a day to day basis?

Remind me again...

[Facetious]

Where did Einstein do his post-graduate work?

Re:Remind me again...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did Einstein do his post-graduate work? The same place he did his undergraduate work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Zurich

Re:Remind me again...

[ppanon]

He didn't. He graduated with a bachelor's degree in physics from ETH Zurich. But so what if he didn't have a graduate degree?

It was 1900, and most of what was known then about about physics (and much that wasn't known then) is now taught in the first three years of bachelor's in physics. The field has advanced substantially since, so that you now need to learn more than what's in an undergraduate curriculum before you reach the bounds of knowledge and can add to it. Such was not the case in 1900.

Maybe Hawking's concern is that the world could be missing out on the skills of another Srinivasa Ramanujan. That said, from the Wikipedia article, it appears that Ramanujan was Brahmin caste and thus had educational opportunities not available to most people in India.

Also, mathematical ability at that level seems to be the combination of a rare gift of aptitude with a certain intensity to cultivate and develop it. It's possible that we in the first world have - for the most part - become too rich, contented, and easily distracted to dedicate ourselves to that pursuit.

Re:Remind me again...

[Facetious]

He didn't. He graduated with a bachelor's degree in physics from ETH Zurich. But so what if he didn't have a graduate degree?

From TFS

The project will create Africa's first post-graduate center for math and physics.

Thank you for taking the bait. My point was that Einstein's genius didn't need post-graduate work, and I suspect (though I obviously can't prove) that post-graduate work for Albert would mean we wouldn't know the name "Einstein" today.

Re:Remind me again...

[ppanon]

My point was that Einstein's genius didn't need post-graduate work, and I suspect (though I obviously can't prove) that post-graduate work for Albert would mean we wouldn't know the name "Einstein" today. And my point is that the field has changed a lot in 100 years. There probably wasn't a lot of people getting graduate degrees in molecular biology or electrical engineering back then either.

What was necessary to advance the field back then and what is necessary now isn't the same. That doesn't mean that Einstein, if he had been born in the 1930's (like Richard Feynman) or even now, wouldn't have been capable of advancing the field if he had had to get a graduate degree. Sure, he almost certainly wouldn't have been able to make as many diverse contributions to it from quantum mechanics to relativity, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been able to make contributions to science.

Maybe he would be making it in protein folding or molecular nanotechnology instead of basic physics. Who knows?

Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

Stephen Hawking has traveled to South Africa in search of Africa's Einsteins.

Good look to him. Perhaps he will find some Einstein from the white European settlers, but if he is looking amongst the blacks and negros, he's shit out of luck. Jenkem, rape, HIV, murders are about the only thing these creatures excel in.

This seems like another one of those stupid liberal program that exists to boost negro's self esteem. It is not enough to have 'magical negros' in TV and cinema, we also have to reduce the educational standards to accomodate these beasts.

Visit The Truth About Africa if you want to read more about Negros and truly understand them.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Monkey]

I had to look Jenkem up. God damn!

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[sm62704]

Race has nothing to do with it. Look at yourself; dumb as a box of rocks.

Put any kid of any race (say, your kid) in a third world country with little food, no medical care, and have unlearned people raise him, and don't send him to school, and he'll be just like the native Africans.

Take one of those African kids and raise him in an enlightened industrial society and he'll excel as much as anyone. It isn't about self esteem, it's about quality of life.

As to your own stupidity, racism is a tool of the rich to keep everyone else at each others' throats so they won't notice who's really using and abusing them, tool.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

If race is irrelevant how do you explain the obvious widespread advanced technological achievements of certain races vs others who, if left untouched, would most likely still be living as primitives for the next thousand centuries? You can't blame the natural evolution of the people of any continent on "social conditions". The greatest determining factor in the course of any civilization/society is the intellect of its inhabitants.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[TerranFury]

Like 'Monkey,' I had to look up this 'Jenkem' stuff. It is apparently a hoax which has been debunked. See Monkey's link.

No reply to the rest of your post.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

It is apparently a hoax which has been debunked. Keep telling yourself it's a hoax. Otherwise, you'd have to question whether they really deserve to be called "human".

"It's a hoax! We're all equal! Race doesn't matter! Please, don't rape my white daughter! We're all equal, brother!"

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

So. What's your excuse sir? Not to mention that Africa became a war torn cesspool of a continent after European intervention. But you keep up with your unfounded hatred while the rest of us get on with our lives. Sucks to be you.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[speculatrix]

rising to the bait, there are fundamental problems to Africa, the two key ones are corruption in the governments and the continuous fighting within and between countries (for resources and between tribes). The D.R. Congo should be one of the richest countries in the world with its unequalled wealth of mineral resources, but years of corruption, greed and fighting have ensured its ability to exploit those resources are minimal.

another key problem is that foreign governments have caused major problems. for example, when Belgium controlled one part of Africa they deemed it unncessary to have much if any higher education, so there are very few universities, and thus people's education plateaus.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[joeman3429]

I don't want you to rape my daughter either.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

Race has nothing to do with it. Look at yourself; dumb as a box of rocks. sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. But then people on /. aren't that smart overall, they just think they are...

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that Africa became a war torn cesspool of a continent after European intervention. Whereas they were a thriving, technologically advanced continent prior to that?

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

it also has to do with what the cultural values. Backwards cultures value physical strength and strong domineering personality types, whereas more technologically advanced cultures tend to value intellectual pursuits and achievements as much or more that physical prowess.

Backward cultures often keep themselves backward by focusing on the very things that make them backward.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Monkey]

Well it certainly brings new meaning to the term "Woah, this is some good shit!"

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[icegreentea]

This is why the best football and baseball players don't get paid more than our top engineers... wait, what?

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

"Racism is a tool of the rich to keep everyone else at each others' throats so they won't notice who's really using and abusing them."

The jew

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I think the nature vs nurture debate has been done to death. Yes, environment has an impact; and the belief that environment alone determines someone's abilities died out decades ago.

That being said - the key differentiator is in opportunity. I agree that if a kid of any race and of reasonable potential was in the same situation you described above, he would probably not do well -- but not strictly because of how he was raised; but rather the lack of opportunity available for him to learn about his own potential.

Take one of those African kids and raise him in an enlightened industrial society and he'll excel as much as anyone. It isn't about self esteem, it's about quality of life. This is patently incorrect - look to any inner city of an enlightened industrial nation for tons of examples of some very intelligent individuals who never realize their potential. (This is independent of race.)

As to your own stupidity, racism is a tool of the rich to keep everyone else at each others' throats so they won't notice who's really using and abusing them, tool. I agree that GP is stupid, but as to the rest... must be some good stuff you're smoking there.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[TerranFury]

If a black man did something horrible to you or your family, you have my sympathies.

A member of my family was beaten to death by a black man in the street. It happened before I was born. Routine mugging gone awry. She spent the rest of her "life" in pain and a vegetative state. It was the woman who raised my mother.

I don't blame race. I blame human nature. Most people of any color are just vicious animals running on fear and greed and desperation.

But I like to think -- or, I hope -- that I am a man and not a beast. And I believe that to be this I need, constantly, to overcome the paranoia that would make me a fearful animal and not a man. I believe abject racism is just one more form of animal paranoia.

I do not believe in a utopia where race does not matter. I learned that again in college, and it was my saddest lesson. You see, racist Chinese people say the same things about white men that you say about blacks -- that they (we) are fetishists, perverts, rapists, deviants, and worse. I learned this the hard way when, for six months, I dated a nice and good-looking girl from Shanghai. People said nasty things, whispered snide comments -- particularly two kinds of people: (1) uneducated whites, and (2) racist Chinese people. My mind's eye saw the caricature of the racist white man -- sitting on his front porch, spitting tobacco, and saying, "Watch out! Them watermelon-eating niggers take our women!" morphing into a Chinese student who was pointing at me, and the "nigger" becoming a stereotyped "Westerner" with my face. She was a nice girl, and though we did not have enough in common to continue the relationship -- our value systems were moving rapidly apart, and it became more and more clear that we, in basic philosophy, wanted very different things -- we certainly did not deserve the kind of comments we received. It was insulting to me and dehumanizing to her: The assumption by her "own people" seemed to be that she could not possibly be appealing as a human being, that the only reason anyone could want to date her was that he were sick, that he were some kind of twisted pervert and that the only appealing quality she could possibly have was the ethnicity she happened to come from. She had warned me when we started that people would say these things, and I had replied naively that it didn't matter, but I guess in fact I had really thought it wouldn't happen enough that it could matter. I had to learn the hard way that this wasn't true. It was severely disillusioning.

I do not want to be like those people who spoke insults and acid. I do not believe in utopia, but I reject their petty tribalism, and I am a better man than they were.

Are you? Are you a better man? A thinking, reasoning being with thoughts as well as instincts? Or are you a beast yourself?

I'm not asking you to change your mind immediately. I'm not telling you to discard what you think just because people call it "racism:" having a name for an idea and saying "it's bad" doesn't by itself mean it's wrong. I'm just asking you to moderate your thoughts for a bit, to let the man overcome the beast. Because I think -- or hope -- that in time and with thoughtfulness, you will conclude differently than you do now -- and I don't think bitterness is a very good route to peace for society, or to happiness for yourself.

Cheers.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[geekoid]

"
As to your own stupidity, racism is a tool of the rich to keep everyone else at each others' throats so they won't notice who's really using and abusing them, tool."

that's just stupid.

The super wealthy need people to be educated so they can make money and buy there stuff.
Racism is the tool of cowards and the weak of mind.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

So instead of battling each other for tribal territory with spears, before being ruled-over by Europe, they were battling each other for tribal territory more efficiently with guns, after Europe left?

It's the same situation, with different, more destructive weapons.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why the best football and baseball players don't get paid more than our top engineers... wait, what? It's why scientists get laid so much more than professional athletes, too!

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Eli Gottlieb]

Yeah, how do you explain how far ahead of everyone else the Jews are?

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[McGiraf]

"If race is irrelevant how do you explain the obvious widespread advanced technological achievements of certain races vs others who, if left untouched, would most likely still be living as primitives for the next thousand centuries?"

Read Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond, (or download the torrent of the movie the made from the book if reading is too hard for you) and you may become less ignorant.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

Read Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond

What a shocker, Jared Diamond (JEW) telling whites how all our accomplishments were based on geography and had nothing to do with hard work, morality, and intelligence. Next thing you know you'll tell us we should read other Hebrew anti-white propaganda like Howard Zinn.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[XchristX]

[quote]
Put any kid of any race (say, your kid) in a third world country with little food, no medical care, and have unlearned people raise him, and don't send him to school, and he'll be just like the native Africans.
[/quote]

Absolutely true. As an example, look at the Kalash tribal people of Pakistan. They're basically white-caucasian (descended from Greeks), but they are among the poorest ethnic groups in the region.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[Anonymous Coward]

Put any kid of any race (say, your kid) in a third world country with little food, no medical care, and have unlearned people raise him, and don't send him to school, and he'll be just like the native Africans.

Nonsense. That does not explain why the Negros in USA suffer so much in education, and need all kinds of help just to get passing grades. That does not explain why Negros tend to commit the highest amount of murders and rapes.

Actually, Just read a few sites to clear all your doubts once and for all:

American Ren. StormFront.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[eennaarbrak]

Well, a more interesting question might be - does the average engineer get paid more than the average football player?

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[eennaarbrak]

I guess you've never met a black person before. Let me put it in your terms: most of them are actually amazingly smart! Almost like us! Amazing!

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[sm62704]

I must not have been clear. You are correct, the key differentiator is indeed in opportunity. Have one of Bill gates' kids, as a newborn, raised by a crack whore in the Detroit ghetto, and he'll most likely wind up in prison.

Environment counts for far more than genetics.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[sm62704]

The super wealthy need people to be educated

I didn't say ignorance was a tool of the rich, I said racism is a tool of the rich. It's a political tool. Racism hurts the poor, whatever the poor person's race. It helps nobody except the rich.

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[sm62704]

Pathetic. I joke thet "everybody knows wikipedia is unreliable" and then link to uncyclopedia, "the content-free encyclopedia", but those links you present parody themselves! From the link:

Africa
From Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search
"Africa is" ... "piss" ... "You'll get your balls cut off." ~ Totally accurate quote from a native African (source)

"The only thing positive about Africa is HIV." ~ Oscar Wilde

"Africa is the scariest part of the Epcot." ~ George W. Bush

"Only in the board game risk does Africa truly shine" ~ Risk Champion Rob Schneider on Africa

"How did we get internet access to write this?" ~ Africans

Africa is widely agreed to be Earth's shittiest continent, in more ways than one. For one thing, most of the land is wracked with hunger, poverty, disease, genocide, and hopelessness. Also, it is caked in feces. Not a pleasant place to be, all things considered. It's got exotic animals though. Suh-weet!

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[mdielmann]

Every region in the world has great works that have lasted for thousands of years, with the arguable exception of Europe. Africa has some ruins that were built by the ancestors of the Zulus. Asia has a number of works in China, India, Cambodia, and others. The Middle East has a number as well, including the pyramids and a city carved into stone in the middle of a desert, which had canals and cisterns to collect the inch or two of rain per year for miles in every direction to support the city. South and Central America have their own pyramids as well. North America has the Pueblo cities in the US mesas.
The place where you don't find a lot of stuff going back much over a thousand years, and even less from over 2 thousand years ago is Europe. Besides Stonehenge, which barely compares to the pyramids, to name just one, is the only thing I've heard of that comes close.
If you're looking for advanced civilizations, look to people who weren't fair-skinned and blue-eyed. And yes, all of them collapsed at one time or other. Do you really think the current one will do much better?

Re:Einstein is over-rated

[XchristX]

Like 'Monkey,' I had to look up this 'Jenkem' stuff. It is apparently a hoax which has been debunked. See Monkey's link. Actually, it's not quite a hoax. It really exists in sub-saharan Africa. There was a hoax perpetrated that it was spreading to the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenkem

But it does exist, unfortunately. Extreme poverty often breeds extreme desperation. It's also very poisonous. sad.

Watson

[philspear]

Turok and Hawking hope that Aimss students will help to overturn the negative stereotypes of Africa that were recently given expression by James Watson, the co-discoverer of DNA.

Not to go off on a tangent, but I wouldn't call Watson the "co-discovererer of DNA," for two reasons.

1. My understanding of research history was that DNA was discovered long before, and also long before was identified as the genetic material.
2. He likely didn't even co-discover the STRUCTURE of DNA so much as steal credit for that from Rosalind Franklin and Raymond Gosling.

Re:Watson

[smellsofbikes]

Watson is overcredited, in part because of sexism and in part because he and Crick made very sure they were credited while others (Franklin, Wilkins) were painted as just assistants.
However, Watson and Crick did figure out some vital stuff. Before they came along, DNA was considered some strange stuff that only had four constituents, so it was considered highly unlikely that it did anything useful. Rosalind Franklin showed that it had a helical structure, and Watson and Crick synthesized that knowledge, along with Pauling's incorrect suggestions that information was encoded in helical structures of collagen.
Crick came to the fundamentally important conclusion that the x-ray crystallography indicated an antiparallel double helix, and everything else depended on that realization.
(Many good summaries exist. this one is pretty good.
But Watson did have a central influence on the discovery of what DNA did, as did, to a lesser extent, Franklin, Wilkins, Gosling, and Pauling, any of whom could've figured it out if they'd gotten to work with each other, as Crick and Watson did.

Re:Watson

[Anonymous Coward]

2. He likely didn't even co-discover the STRUCTURE of DNA so much as steal credit for that from Rosalind Franklin and Raymond Gosling.

Franklin, Crick, and Watson were supposed to be working together. Franklin was discovering certain things and withholding the information from the others, and they knew this. She may have had an (understandable) fear of being sidelined because of her gender, but her actions ended up pissing off Crick and Watson and turned them into enemies instead of research partners. The entire situation was a mess. Blatant sexism in the workplace didn't help.

If all three of them could have just "grown up" a little bit, they might have all shared the prize, but instead Franklin sank into obscurity.

The purpose?

[InvisblePinkUnicorn]

If the purpose is to somehow stimulate the local economy, I think it would make more sense to help build and expand the underlying infrastructure that would eventually lead to the desire to have top math/science experts in the region. Otherwise they will most likely just move somewhere where they're actually wanted and can be sufficiently compensated. Is there a need for physics experts when the region is severely lacking in agriculture?

Re:The purpose?

[magarity]

Exactly - they need civil engineers and agriculturalists, not physicists. Sounds like this project is a symptom of 'when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail'-itis though the principals do have good intentions and it probably will help some individuals move up and out.

Re:The purpose?

[jedidiah]

Yes, because we all know that they NEVER use physics in the engineering disciplines.

Re:The purpose?

[theJavaMan]

I think the purpose of this is to move real talent from horrid conditions to somewhere where they can achieve their full potential. Theoretical physics does not help the local economy. It helps the whole of human race.

Re:The purpose?

[PikachuMolester2007]

Not quite sure why people assume all of the Africa is starving or lacks critical infrastructure. Take a look at the pictures on the wikipedia entry for Johannesburg, for comparison sake. There are definitely places in Africa where physicists, engineers and scientists of all types can, and are, earning a decent living.

Re:The purpose?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, 150 year old physics. Certainly no one needs to worry about 11 dimensional strings when building a fucking toilet. Use your noodle.

Re:The purpose?

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting that you use Johannesburg as an example of great place in Africa. It just so happens to be in South Africa, which until the mid '90s, was run by whites.

Fast-forward to present day, where things are not so rosy. From the Wikipedia link above:

Thousands of poor, mostly black, people, who had been forbidden to live in the city proper, moved into the city from surrounding black townships like Soweto. Many immigrants from economically beleaguered and war torn African nations flooded into South Africa, with Johannesburg the most Northerly major city and therein a logical choice. Crime levels rose, and especially the rate of violent crime. Many buildings were abandoned by landlords, especially in high-density areas, such as Hillbrow. Many corporations and institutions, including the stock exchange, moved their headquarters away from the city centre, to suburbs like Sandton. By the late 1990s, Johannesburg was rated as one of the most dangerous cities in the world.

I leave the obvious conclusion as an exercise for the reader.

Re:The purpose?

[azaris]

Not quite sure why people assume all of the Africa is starving or lacks critical infrastructure. Take a look at the pictures on the wikipedia entry for Johannesburg, for comparison sake.

Would that be the "most dangerous city in the world with respect to street crime" Johannesburg? Hardly a place where international researchers would flock to live and work in.

I've also heard Internet connections are plentiful and inexpensive in Mogadishu, but I wouldn't start a research center there.

Re:The purpose?

[magarity]

Physics PhD's do research. Civil engineers use physics in calculations to design infrastructure. Which activity is more needed in impoverished countries? Thanks for trying to be sarcastic.

Re:The purpose?

[turgid]

I leave the obvious conclusion as an exercise for the reader.

So you [I assume you by the tone of your post] oppress and exploit a certain group of society for a century and are surprised what happens when the lid finally gets blown off?

Re:The purpose?

[Deadplant]

sooo, British physicists should go to Africa and teach farming? .... or just stay put and shut up?

We can all contribute with our own skills.

The idea here is not to create an economic effect. That is secondary.

The point of the project is to find and empower the brilliant potential mathematicians and physicists in this poorly served region. The purpose of finding and empowering these people is to empower the human race and to advance our knowledge and understanding of the universe.

Re:The purpose?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, to make it clear... it is not about "hoping to fight poverty by identifying the kind of talent that can create wealth." but to "advance our knowledge and understanding of the universe".

I think the second is a noble goal on its own. But you must understand the problem with the article is that it mentioned wealth and poverty.

I don't think creating a graduated institute will create wealth on that country. But I think it is great Hawking is doing that.

Re:The purpose?

[Anonymous Coward]

They did, however, need general relativity to get the GPS system right. You need quantum mechanics and special relativity to work out how to make nuclear reactors. And amazingly those with research degrees tend to be pretty good at TEACHING that 150yr old physics that all the rest need...

Re:The purpose?

[eennaarbrak]

Jeeze, you made me laugh! "..severely lacking in agriculture?". Very good one.

South Africa doesn't need agriculture (if you're in Europe, go to the local fruit store and count the number of fruit imported from SA. Here's a hint to find them - they're usually the biggest, best ones). The infrastructure is here. We need skills to enable us to grow the economy. Skills like maths and science - corporations here pay good money for scientific skills, in quality of life terms probably better than Europe and the USA. You may argue that you were talking about the rest of Africa - fact is, economic growth has to start from somewhere.

Re:The purpose?

[eennaarbrak]

I was born and lived in Johannesburg all my life. We don't need international researchers (they are welcome, of course) - we need local people with skills that can be applied to grow the economy. And there is plenty of work here for mathematicians and physicists (and engineers, and software developers). The infrastructure in SA is well developed, we need skilled people to grow it. The crime problem still exists, but I honestly think calling JHB the most dangerous city in the world is a bit excessive. I have seen more street muggings in Paris than in the streets here.

Re:The purpose?

[SickHumour]

Won't postgrad students be encouraged to deal with issues affecting the country?

Usually incentives are provided for relevant topics in the form research grants. On the other hand, if the research is relevant to the international community it could attract international funding, which won't be a bad thing either.

Re:The purpose?

[Viol8]

Yes , obviously aparthied is still the reason for the problems now there. Just look at the rest of Africa for a model of how countries in the region should be run after 50 or more years of self rule ... oh wait...

Re:The purpose?

[KlausBreuer]

Johannesburg? In South Africa?

Well, I lived there for seven years. Long ago.
By now the entire economy is rapidly falling, inflation is climbing, the state is spectacularly corrupt, some of the leaders are positively moronic (the Minster for Health was kicked out of a Canadian HIV meeting when she brought up her very own methods for fighting aid, involving, if I remember correctly, potatoes and cucumbers or somesuch) and every bright chap I know is definitely trying to leave.
No future for you in there.

However, the weather is lovely, and the people are very friendly - but stay in the Western Cape (Cape Town), avoiding the Pretoria/Johannesburg mess: highest criminal rate in the world per km.

Re:The purpose?

[InvisblePinkUnicorn]

The center is located in South Africa, but the stated purpose is to find Africa's geniuses. Understand the difference?

Re:The purpose?

[Deadplant]

You are correct. my bad. I must admit I was kinda ignoring the article and concentrating on Hawkings own goals which he has spoken about a number of times.

Re:The purpose?

[GWBasic]

If the purpose is to somehow stimulate the local economy, I think it would make more sense to help build and expand the underlying infrastructure that would eventually lead to the desire to have top math/science experts in the region. Otherwise they will most likely just move somewhere where they're actually wanted and can be sufficiently compensated. Is there a need for physics experts when the region is severely lacking in agriculture?

From the summary:

fight poverty by identifying the kind of talent that can create wealth

Stimulating an economy is a short-term solution. Fostering talent that's able to identify ways to create wealth is a long-term solution.

Pandering...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pandering to the blacks. This is Hawking's appology for being white.

Re:Pandering...

[CyberData4]

If he were looking in China, no one would bat an eyelash. But because it's Africa it's suddenly pandering?

Re:Pandering...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to troll or anything, but China has a rich history of innovation and a rather large and obvious talent pools. When we're talking about Sub-Saharan Africa, we're talking about a place that never invented the wheel. Somalia didn't have a written language until the 1970s.

Conditions through out the continent were so abysmal that Africans crossed fences and landmines to put up with Apartheid rather than be "free" in their own countries...until they bitched and bitched and bitched for "democracy" in South Africa.

South Africa and Rhodesia have now gone from countries with major infrastructure and agricultural output to cesspools where the average woman can be expected to be raped 2.5x in her life, and over a quarter of the population has HIV.

But hey, they have democracy!

Subsaharan Africa is not a has-been, its a never-was. The cradle of humanity, and all it has to show for itself is dung huts and STDs.

China has its problems, but at least it can accomplish things on its own. Gun powder, rocketry, etc. They were there first.

Intelligence in Africa? WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Has Steven lost his mind now too? Nothing there but a bunch of uncivilized jungle bunnies that barely even deserve to use the worlds resources.

Their only value is as an expendable physical labor source.

Re:Intelligence in Africa? WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Go Team!

Re:Intelligence in Africa? WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Has Steven lost his mind now too? Nothing there but a bunch of uncivilized jungle bunnies that barely even deserve to use the worlds resources. Their only value is as an expendable physical labor source.

WRONG!! They are too full of Aids and too lazy to be valuable for even that.

Of course they won't fund it

[eln]

If Hawking wants to get money for this sort of thing, he needs to make it into a reality show and get a TV network on board. Some ideas:

Africa's Next Top Physicist. Every week, contestants will be tasked with solving a major problem in physics. Their efforts will be judged by a panel led by Hawking, using Tyra Banks as a body double. The loser will be eliminated from the competition and thrown into the African savanna, where he will be eaten by a lion.

African Idol: Physics edition. Auditions will be held in various tribal areas throughout Africa. Hilarity will ensue as the ever-caustic Hawking mocks contestants' failures to adequately explain string theory. Losers will be thrown into the African savanna, where they will be eaten by lions.

Deriving With the Physicists. Contestants will be paired up with professional physicists and tasked to derive the Unified Field Theory. Each week, progress will be gaged by a panel of judges. Losers will be thrown into the African savanna, where the lions, fully sated from contestants from the earlier shows, will ignore them. They will then be shot by poachers.

Survivor: Africa. Contestants will spend the entire show dealing with extreme heat, drought, and the ever-present threat of starvation and disease while trying to scrape up enough money to attend school while keeping his family fed and not dying from malaria. The one who can manage to survive long enough to attend a post-graduate physics program wins.

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[Anonymous Coward]

"The one who can manage to survive long enough to attend a post-graduate physics program wins."

And if none do, then the season ends early? Or is the rest of the season to be filled up with Tyra Banks dancing?

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[value_added]

The Physics Whisperer

Learn how to stay calm and assertive when you learn that your pack leader really does play dice.

Living Physics

And you thought physics was just for boring old fuddy duddies. Listen and learn while Martha Stewart explains how in her house, the laws of thermodynamics are obeyed, and with style.

Oprah, Physics Edition

Move over Newton! This new hit show has Oprah tackling quantum mechanics, while her guests provide tips on how photons can be empowering. Every audience member gets their very own Big Bang to take home and share with their families.

Dirty Dirty Physics

Stephen Hawking and Mike Rowe explore the mathematical mysteries of sewer system design and animal husbandry techniques.

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[kabocox]

If Hawking wants to get money for this sort of thing, he needs to make it into a reality show and get a TV network on board. Some ideas:

The really sad thing is that it would work. O.k. remove the feeding them to the lions if they do wrong. I think it was a Saturday night live where they were just offering bags of food to those that got it right. Well, offer a years supply of food for those that win the chemistry, math, physics, or what ever other subjects that you want them to compete in. I don't know how much "the years supply of food" would cost, but a first world cable station should be able to afford it and just let the locals compete.

The really bizarre thing is that companies could use this as a brain drain lure. The top winners get to have a US min wage job for a year!

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[gnomeza]

+6 funny. Parent post is full of win.

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[Anonymous Coward]

Africa's Next Top Physicist. Every week, contestants will be tasked with solving a major problem in physics. Their efforts will be judged by a panel led by Hawking, using Tyra Banks as a body double. As long as they use his real (synthesized) voice, that's a WIN!

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[Anonymous Coward]

Survivor: Africa. Contestants will spend the entire show dealing with extreme heat, drought, and the ever-present threat of starvation and disease while trying to scrape up enough money to attend school while keeping his family fed and not dying from malaria. The one who can manage to survive long enough to attend a post-graduate physics program wins. That last show is a little too close to reality to be funny.

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[ross.w]

there is the 419 alternative... Dear sir, I hope you will forgive me for writing to you like this but I was assured that you would be interested in a mutually beneficial business proposition. etc. etc.

Re:Of course they won't fund it

[Hal_Porter]

I do like the way 4chan-isms like "full of win" are slowly spreading into the rest of the net.

Africa - made of fail and AIDs ;-)

Who's smarter?

[Anonymous Coward]

He's actually looking for more Hawkings to pass his legacy onto, not Einsteins.

Good luck...

[Anonymous Coward]

Start with the mountain gorillas - at least they aren't shooting each other and won't shoot the seeker.

Why Hawking will fail

[Anonymous Coward]

If finding a genius in relatively educated, developed, Western nations is like finding a needle in a haystack, then finding one in Africa is hopeless.

With thugs like Mugabe and nuts like Mbeki

[swb]

...all the physics in the universe won't help them.

A major dose of population control is necessary as well, as a lot of Africa's civil unrest and political instability can be traced to overpopulation. Tribal lands get subdivided until they can't be subdivided anymore, and landless youth head to the cities where they are unemployed and easily pressed into whatever militia the local revolutionary, tribal rival or kleptocratic government is organizing today.

Building infrastructure, handing out OLPCs, curing malaria, etc. isn't going to help.

Re:With thugs like Mugabe and nuts like Mbeki

[elrous0]

Just don't tell them about condoms. You'll piss off the Catholic Church and the Bush administrations.

Re:With thugs like Mugabe and nuts like Mbeki

[Anonymous Coward]

A major dose of population control is necessary as well, as a lot of Africa's civil unrest and political instability can be traced to overpopulation. what shit. What they need is a major dose of gun control and for western nations to stop propping up the murderous "leaders" of the region with guns, guns and more guns. The African continent is deliberately being kept unstable so western nations can plunder its resources.

Re:With thugs like Mugabe and nuts like Mbeki

[Khaed]

I agree that Mugabe and the like need to go, and so do the voters in Zimbabwe, but I don't know that population control is necessary. There are population issues in China and India, as well, and they manage to avoid the same sort of hell that a lot of Africa is in.

Education, infrastructure, and Mugabe hanging by his feet like a piñata would be a good start.

Re:With thugs like Mugabe and nuts like Mbeki

[Hal_Porter]

Actually population control may be a disaster for China. Other, richer neighbouring countries like Japan and Korea have a problem of shrinking, aging population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_of_Japan

Now it seems like the One Child policy China has may cause a nightmare situation where Japan-like demographics happen before the country gets rich enough to support all the retired people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy#The_.22Four-Two-One.22_problem

I think the basic lesson is that people don't have enough information to implement things like population control. It's easy to extrapolate a high birth rate to Malthusian chaos in a few decades, but a lot can change in that time. And it rich countries the problem is birth rate being too low, not too high.

Re:With thugs like Mugabe and nuts like Mbeki

[swb]

Population control isn't a disaster; famine and ecological collapse are disasters that are seldom correctable, outside of long-term time horizons where widespread death and possible collapse of a civilization are considered acceptable corrections.

Think of it this way -- the NY Times recently quoted a Canadian agricultural professor as saying that 40% of the world won't get enough to eat without the continued global use of nitrogen fertilizer. So we've already outstripped the ability of the land to provide food for the world's population; we're relying on juking it chemically to provide for us. A widespread reduction in fertilizer production is enough to induce famine.

"Too small" populations are primarily economic model estimates based around GDP and government payments; many of the details are simply policy matters or even lifestyle choices (ie, the expectation that retirement means a condo in Florida, daily golf and expensive medicines to prolong terminal illnesses.)

Re:With thugs like Mugabe and nuts like Mbeki

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't be that stupid. Guns are just a tool to make killing easier. Removing them does not remove the reasons why people want each other dead. Without guns, other methods of killing will be used.

No more Einstein's

[sweetser]

There was one Einstein, there will not be another, ever. Nor will there be another Newton, Maxwell, Bohr, Dirac, Feynman, Weinberg, or Hawking. Very accomplished folks, but all over the place with their personalities, like how they would be in a bar (a topless bar if it was Feynman).

I support the project, not the marketing of the project.

Re:No more Einstein's

[Chapter80]

There was one Einstein, there will not be another, ever.

I call bullshit on that comment.

Re:No more Einstein's

[Anonymous Coward]

Albert had 2 children (there was a third conceived out of wedlock whose plight is not known). Eduard developed schizophrenia, a debilitating condition. Hans Albert Einstein became a civil engineering professor at UC Berkeley who made contributions to the analysis of sentiment.

There are many Einstein's out there, as well as Einstein Bros Bagels, which will cost "from $492,050 to $883,350, depending on your market and build-out costs" should you choose to open a franchise.

Einstein changed how we understand gravity. None of the folks cited, nor his children, have done a similar thing.

Re:No more Einstein's

[pclminion]

Hawking is a very smart physicist, but I think most physicists would take issue with putting him in the same list as all those others.

If you asked me to narrow down that list to the "true geniuses" I'd have to say Einstein, Newton, Maxwell, Dirac, Feynman, and I'd insert Bethe and Oppenheimer.

The idea of "genius" is a romantic concept which has been dismissed in almost all of the sciences except physics, where people still revere some of their own as demi-gods.

I remember a quote, which I cannot attribute, and I will paraphrase. "An ordinary genius is someone that you or I could be just as good as, if only we were hundreds of times better. An extraordinary genius is someone whose capacity is simply beyond reach." Hawking might be an ordinary genius, but that is still categorically different from the kind of genius exhibited by Einstein.

Re:No more Einstein's

[Chapter80]

None of the folks cited, nor his children, have done a similar thing.

I never said they did. I said that the claim that there are no Einsteins and will never be another, ever, is bullshit. And I provided evidence.

You mentioned Albert. I didn't, and neither did the post that I was replying to.

I hope he finds them soon

[seanonymous]

So that I, for one, can welcome our African Einsteinien overlords.

Re:I hope he finds them soon

[Anonymous Coward]

So that I, for one, can welcome our African Einsteinien overlords. I wouldn't. He'll use the intelligence to murder, rape, steal, and spread AIDS without getting caught.

no post-grad center on the whole continent?

[bzipitidoo]

That's the most stunning part. I would never have guessed that Africa was so backward that it didn't have so much as one math or physics post grad center in the whole dang continent. While there isn't anything like the LHC or Fermilab, seems there has to be more to Africa than the headline suggests.

Re:no post-grad center on the whole continent?

[sayfawa]

If TFA (which I haven't read) suggested that there's no post-grad physics or math department in Africa, it's wrong. I have personally visited several physics departments in various African countries that had Ph.D programs. For example, here's a math program and here's a physics one.

Re:no post-grad center on the whole continent?

[Anonymous Coward]

South Africa has at least different 8 universities all offering Phd programs in Math and Phyisics.

We get some influx from other African countries, where honours students come to do MSc and Phd studies. For example, about 1/4 of students at Rhodes University are Zimbabwean.

I work with 6 African students from outside S.A. at MSc/Phd level. At least 5 of them will go back to their universities back home to teach after completing Phd's. They all feel very responsible for their countries and its development.

Re:no post-grad center on the whole continent?

[Anonymous Coward]

And if we're talking about stuff like LHC and Fermilab, there's iThemba Labs. Not on the grand scale of the major European and American facilities, of course.

The High-Energy Physics section at UCT's physics department (the one sayfawa linked above) is actually involved in one of the components of the LHC.

The University of Cape Town offers as full a range of undergraduate and postgraduate study as what you would find at a good American or European university, and was listed as one of the top 200 universities in the THES-QS rankings. There are several other universities in South Africa with a similar range and quality of research.

Re:no post-grad center on the whole continent?

[acheron12]

Most of the traditional universities on Wikipedia's list of universities in South Africa have postgraduate programs in all major subjects.

However a South African (or British, or Australian, or in general, Commonwealth) postgraduate program is quite different to an American postgraduate program. In South Africa, one does a Masters degree before a PhD and both can be purely research based. In America a PhD program effectively includes a Masters program in its first few years and usually has significant coursework requirements.

mod parent up!

[fmobus]

Funny with a realistic and sad twist. Brillant post. Thread over, you may all go home.

Re:mod parent up!

[Anonymous Coward]

>you may all go home.

Apparently you don't realize where you are.

Small Pool of Healthy

[Tablizer]

I doubt he will find much because it is such an undernourished and politically unstable place on the whole. You likely need a large population of relatively healthy people in order to produce sufficient geniuses. Poorly-fed brains with too few toys are not likely to end up at the top. Einstein traced his thought process back to a compass that his dad gave him.

If only say 10 percent of Africa's population fits that bill, then you'd get about 10% of the hits compared to a similar population of mostly middle-class countries. This is not being racist, but merely observing the health of Africa's population as it is.

Re:Small Pool of Healthy

[crazybit]

Many exceptional athletes: soccer players (Didier Drogba), marathon runners, sprint runners, long distance jumpers, etc. come from Africa.

If their eating habits didn't stop them from becoming champions, why should the same food affect possible geniuses?

Re:Small Pool of Healthy

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to remember that those skills were a result of evolution: thousands of years running from lions and other predators, or more recently, the police.

It not about what they ate; it's about what they stole.

Re:Small Pool of Healthy

[Anonymous Coward]

"Einstein traced his thought process back to a compass that his dad gave him."

Then let's send them all compasses. The world needs more Einsteins.

Re:Small Pool of Healthy

[quantaman]

I doubt he will find much because it is such an undernourished and politically unstable place on the whole. You likely need a large population of relatively healthy people in order to produce sufficient geniuses. Poorly-fed brains with too few toys are not likely to end up at the top. Einstein traced his thought process back to a compass that his dad gave him.

If only say 10 percent of Africa's population fits that bill, then you'd get about 10% of the hits compared to a similar population of mostly middle-class countries. This is not being racist, but merely observing the health of Africa's population as it is. The population of Africa is a bit under 1 billion, there are still 100 million Africans who fit that bill.

Far more than health I'm worried first about the intellectual climate, and the mechanisms for picking out the real smart ones. I know there are a lot of African countries with substantial middle classes, who should have the mechanisms to stimulate the young brains. But I don't know if the culture is one that will foster that stimulation, or the career lines such that those young brains can be picked out for further learning.

Re:Small Pool of Healthy

[Anonymous Coward]

Permit me to voice disagreement. I would like to argue that it is precisely because there are "too few toys" that Hawkins believes he would be able to find what he is looking for. Even though "poorly-fed", their brains have to rely on their own imagination much more than ours do. They are not spoiled by Hollywood's *consistent* violation of laws of physics. They don't need Blizzard/Square Enix to create fantasy lands for them. At the same time, they have a real and pressing incentive to become better educated. Virgin minds! Just imagine sowing contemporary scientific knowledge on such arable field. The benefit you reap then may very well be the next Einstein. It's not as if Einstein was an excellent student either. I say, that he himself was a "Virgin Mind" questioning scientific dogma. Maybe that is what we need, a fresh perspective.

Re:Small Pool of Healthy

[ppanon]

Brain development is extremely dependent on good nutrition in the first few years of life. Malnutrition is common in many parts of Africa with periodic famines in such areas as the horn.

On the other hand, in a continent where there is (relatively) little motorized transportation and walking is a primary mode of transportation. travelling on foot is a basic survival tool and the body naturally directs its energies to that purpose because it gets significant use. It therefore shouldn't be surprising to find a strong aptitude to the athletic competitions that you mention, The core skills for those sports are developed by everyday activities common there.

So sub-Saharan Africa is an environment which strengthens one set of aptitudes (for your "counterexample") and weakens another. And man is an animal which adapts to its environment.

Well, there goes my eugenics grant

[elrous0]

Thanks a lot you crippled bastard!

Einstein In The Hood

[Anonymous Coward]

found here

At home in his crib chilling with his chick. I heard this in a conversation between a male and female hoodster this afternoon at lunch. I'd take a Russian or Chinese student at random over ANY U.S. educated student.

U.S.A. - Superpower - Truly a delusion

Africa and its genetic diversity

[crazybit]

New studies show there is more genetic diversity between humans in Africa:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1288178
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050310103042.htm
http://www.science.psu.edu/alert/Tishkoff1-1999.htm

It might be easier to find a genius among very different subjects, than finding one in a group where everybody is similar.

Hawking is a genius

Re:Africa and its genetic diversity

[Anonymous Coward]

Devil's advocate here...

I sense a flaw in your reasoning. Just because there is more genetic diversity in one population than another does not mean that there will be a greater prevalence of a certain trait in the more heterogeneous population. Indeed, by definition, the homogeneous population will posses certain traits in greater abundance. It is just a question of what. As an example, chimps have more genetic diversity than humans, yet you wouldn't expect them to harbor a higher proportion of geniuses.

Re:Africa and its genetic diversity

[dookiesan]

Europeans will have a skewed distribution of African haplotypes, but my understanding is that the population bottlenecks that lead to this also allow for evolution. I don't know if large populations evolve unless it is due to sexual selection.

Don't you think Europeans and Asians are disimilar as well? As a pooled group we are less diverse than the Africans. It's all statistical nonsense; the way genotype data is analyzed is extremely crude. They literally discard data because the models are so piss poor that they actually perform worse when you give them more information!

Re:Africa and its genetic diversity

[Insightfill]

New studies show there is more genetic diversity between humans in Africa:

...

It might be easier to find a genius among very different subjects, than finding one in a group where everybody is similar.

Hawking is a genius

Therefore, Hawking is African?

An African Einstein would move out of Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

The smartest people in Africa, leave Africa :)

This is to build wealth in Africa?

[DesScorp]

Look, I'm all for helping Africa get great colleges and postgrad institutions. It's a good thing, and certainly can't hurt. But if these people think that a postgrad center for math and physics is going to help pump great wealth into Africa, I'm afraid they'll be dissapointed. They'd be better off building business and engineering institutes. People like Patrice Motsepe will do far more to bring wealth to Africa than someone like Hawking.

Re:This is to build wealth in Africa?

[quantaman]

Look, I'm all for helping Africa get great colleges and postgrad institutions. It's a good thing, and certainly can't hurt. But if these people think that a postgrad center for math and physics is going to help pump great wealth into Africa, I'm afraid they'll be dissapointed. They'd be better off building business and engineering institutes. People like Patrice Motsepe will do far more to bring wealth to Africa than someone like Hawking. Certainly a postgraduate institution alone won't solve all the problems but I do think it will help more than you expect.

I suspect one thing sorely missing in a lot of Africa right now is pride. Political strife, poverty, and lack of education are common, it seems the only thing African nations can occasionally succeed at on a world stage is athletics.

If they do get a real legitimate world-class research institution I think it gives two main effects. First is pride, they see an African research institution with African scientists young kids now have a good intellectual role model to strive for. They won't be world leading, that will probably take a long time, but if they can really participate on the world stage I think that's a huge boon for African pride.

Second you get a group of actual scientific authorities who are able to influence public policy. Right now I don't know if you have a well established and intellectually rigorous set of African academic institutions available to educate the public. Creating one could very well help combat misconceptions about a lot of scientific concepts and diseases like AIDS.

Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[MOBE2001]

OK. Name one thing that Stephen Hawking has invented that created any wealth other than the sales of his books and related articles.

Isn't Stephen Hawking the guy who, like Carl Sagan, David Deutsch, Kip Thorne and many others, believes that Einstein's GR does not forbid time travel? Yep. It remains that nothing can move in spacetime by definition. Surprise! This is the reason that Sir Karl Popper (or falsification fame) compared spacetime to "Einstein's block universe in which nothing ever happens". It is also the reason that Robert Geroch wrote the following in his book "Relativity from A to B":

There is no dynamics within space-time itself: nothing ever moves therein; nothing happens; nothing changes. [...] In particular, one does not think of particles as "moving through" space-time, or as "following along" their world-lines. Rather, particles are just "in" space-time, once and for all, and the world-line represents, all at once the complete life history of the particle.

Isn't it Hawking's job to understand and know these things? Read Nasty Little Truth About Spacetime Physics to learn the truth about spacetime physics and time travel crackpots. It is time we stopped putting fallible humans on a pedestal and turn them into the superior gods that they are not.

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what you're bitching about. The guy's creating a school in Africa to better their education and improve their quality of life. Whatever you said doesn't have any relevance.

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[MagdJTK]

OK. Name one thing that Stephen Hawking has invented that created any wealth other than the sales of his books and related articles.

Because wealth creation is the only important thing in the world right? I guess that's why people love Bill Gates and hate that stupid Mother Teresa.

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[Anonymous Coward]

For the impoverished, wealth creation is absolutely the most important thing in the world.

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[Zorque]

... what?

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[cobaltnova]

Care to cite some APS articles? Maybe something on the arXiv? No? I didn't think so. Because you're not reading physics, or science. Don't bother citing bullshit physics and/or math that claims:

The assumption is that, since no Newtonian force is required to keep a body in inertial motion, nothing is required. It is a rather foolish assumption because it overlooks the fact that Newtonian force is, by definition, only associated with macroscopic acceleration as seen in the equation below:

Fn = ma
(where Fn = Newtonian force, m = the mass of a moving particle and a = acceleration.)

In other words, Newton posited a cause (force) for the observed accelerated movement of a massive body but failed to do the same for inertial movement.

I'm not sure what crap this site is spewing, but the "inertial movement" (which I could only believe is the MOTION) is related to the acceleration by ITS DEFINITION:

a:= dv/dt = d^2x/dt^

And I've got news for you, and it's called the uniqueness of solutions to linear systems of differential equations: stating a derivative and its initial conditions determines the motion (in many cases, see self-force in classical E&M for examples where other principles are used to determine motion).

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your link reads like Time Cube. STEPHEN HAWKING IS EDUCATING

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[MOBE2001]

You can jump up and down and foam at the mouth as much as you want, it remains that "nothing can move in spacetime" is as true now as it ever was. Spacetime does not allow time travel. It forbids it! Why? By definition, that why. Contradict this truth at your own detriment and see if I care.

My position is clear: Hawking is a time travel crackpot and so are his followers. I am not in the habit of kissing ass and tell it like I see it. If you don't like what I write, don't read it.

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot that we humans are the supreme arbiters of what goes on in the universe and that our laws of science are based off of observation of events around us. I guess it just totally slipped my mind that we can see the entire universe and the entire history of time and know exactly what's happening and what causes it. You win.

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[cobaltnova]

I know I'm biting this flame bait, but...

Spacetime does not allow time travel. It forbids it! Why? By definition, that why.

The definition of space-time is that it is the structure which forbids time travel? I haven't taken a class in GR, but I'm pretty sure that's not the definition.

Contradict this truth at your own detriment and see if I care.

I'm quivering.

My position is clear: Hawking is a time travel crackpot and so are his followers.

Having looked at his results, I must tend to disagree.

If you don't like what I write, don't read it.

Fear not, for I have no intention of wasting any more time on it.

Re:Black Holes Create Wealth? How?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever the true metric of how worthwhile an activity is, I'm sure that bitching on slashdot doesn't rate very highly on it.

Nice idea but not going to make any real change.

[kiatoa]

It is kind of like trying to cure a broken leg with antibiotics. You might need the antibiotics but you'd really better get a splint on there first.

I.e. start by identifying the **real** root cause and work on that.

African First Post!!!

[BlindSpot]

My browser width meant the first line happened to break after "Africa's first post-", leading me ever-so-briefly to ponder "What's so special about African first posts?"

African Einsteins?

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, good luck with that.

Whoosh...

[Anonymous Coward]

racism is a tool of the rich to keep everyone else at each others' throats so they won't notice who's really using and abusing them OMG... racism is a conspiracy by the rich to get us to hate each other?

I just *knew* the Jews had to be behind this!

Re:Whoosh...

[Anonymous Coward]

(Oh yeah... disclaimer. As the AC who posted the crap attempt at ironic humour above, I should have made clear that I'm not the original AC sm62704 was replying to. Just in case you were thinking about taking it seriously :-/)

Re:Whoosh...

[Eli Gottlieb]

Thank you, thank you. We try our best.

Yours,
TEH JOOZ

Re:Whoosh...

[sm62704]

They didn't even have to construct the tool. And not only did you not have to conspire, you didn't even have to think about it, let alone talk about it.

Picking up a stick to beat someone with requires no conspiracy, requires little toolmaking ability, and absolutely no thought at all.

Look at any poor redneck's politics: almost all of them are Jimmy Swaggart-watching neocons who blame the blacks and the Mexicans for their poor standards of living. Then look at a black person in the ghetto with his hatred of white people for "discriminating against him" despite the fact that such discrimination is a Federal crime. If he speaks of rich people, he speaks of rich WHITE people. Boith these buffoons are racists, and are both blaming other of their oppressors' victims for their oppression.

Meanwhlle Oprah Winfrey and Bill Gates laugh all the way to the bank, secure in the knowledge that the people they are keeping down will blame each other.

It's obvious that you still haven't given it any thought.

Re:Whoosh...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's obvious that you still haven't given it any thought. Well, this shows one problem with "Anonymous Coward" posts in general. I'm the person you were replying to immediately above, but *not* the same AC that posted the original "Einstein is over-rated" troll.

I realised that this might have been a problem after I'd hit submit, so I posted a follow-up disclaimer. Mind you, even if you missed the fact that my comment was actually a crap joke (due to your thinking it came from the other guy's mouth), I'm surprised that you didn't at least pick up on the blatant irony of blaming racism on the Jews :-/

Noble cause but will fail due to IQ distribution

[Anonymous Coward]

For such intelligent people being involved with this, they sure do *not* have a grasp of basic statistical analysis and the well-documented distribution of IQ scores between demographic population groups.

If we assume the "Einstein-level IQ" they're looking for is around 160 (with any arguments about Einstein's scientific credibility aside for the moment):

Using Excel's NORMDIST function properly, this means that out of a population of 100,000 blacks and 100,000 whites:

3.35424599 people from the white group will have an IQ greater than or equal to 160

0.00093792910105250400 people from the black group will have an IQ greater than or equal to 160 (essentially meaning that out of even 100,000 black people, you are not likely to find one with an IQ that high).

If I increase the population size to 922,011,000 (population of Africa), then there are 8.6478 people with an IQ of at least 160.

So I have to ask, seriously, what do they hope to accomplish here? This isn't going to work the way they hope, just like every single other egalitarian dream that has been cooked up from decades past.

BTW, I got my standard deviation and averages from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

The only problem with this calculation is that the average and SD for American blacks is a good bit higher than the ones for African blacks, so you can guess what that means for these calculations!

Hey!

[PhetusPolice]

When did we lose faith in finding an American Einstein, huh?!

You need to know where to look

[Jeff1946]

Would anyone have looked in the patent office in Switzerland in 1904?

Neil's TED wish video

[PopeJM]

here is the link to Neil Turok's TED talk where he wishes for the next Einstein to be African. http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/232

Can Anything Move in Spacetime, Yes or No?

[MOBE2001]

If the answer is no (and it is), then you, Stephen Hawking, quantum computing crackpot David Deutsch, and a bunch of other famous physicists and scientists are bona fide crackpots. That is all there is to it. Take it or leave it.

Also, mod me down and see if I care. You can muffle the truth or hide it. The truth always wins out in the end. ahahaha...

Re:Can Anything Move in Spacetime, Yes or No?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you missed the entire point, which is that we absolutely don't know if anything can move in spacetime. We only are pretty sure it can't based off our observations, but our observations are pretty damn limited considering that spacetime is a construct of the human mind and not an actual physical object or plane which can be monitored.

What kind of smart?

[Duncan Blackthorne]

I certainly hope for his sake that Hawkings doesn't fall prey to some 419 scammers.

niggas don't know math

[Anonymous Coward]

shiiiiit, unless it be countin' crack rocks

Re:niggas don't know math

[vajaradakini]

Why aren't comments like this being modded down? There are at least two others below this one that require it as well.

Re:Noble cause but will fail due to IQ distributio

[Anonymous Coward]

I take offence at your comment; you should've used OpenOffice Calc.

africa needs the whiteman back

[Anonymous Coward]

seriously, africa is FULL of failed nigga republics. they get given control, kick out all the smart white people, then go on a rampage killing their policial enemies because their monkey brains can't absorb the concept for democracy.

it makes me furious when idiots have the hide to turn around and blame the west for them killing each other. fuck make people take some responsibility for their own countries. and no dickheads, i'm not from america.

OLPC as Einstein detector

[Russ Nelson]

The OLPC was designed to be an Einstein detector, IMHO.

Re:OLPC as Einstein detector

[Kenshin]

Does it start flashing when one is detected, and does a helicopter land outside shortly after that?

Godwin!

[onion_joe]

See, I think you are making the same mistake of underestimating theoretical physics as the Germans did in the 1930s...

GODWIN! sorry...;-)

Lol finding gold in a shit hole

[Anonymous Coward]

you won't find einsteins in a group of nig nogs.

Dyslexia

[Savione]

I keep reading that as "Hawking Searching for Africa's Intestines." Seriously, this is the SECOND TIME.

trolls

[timmarhy]

I am very disappointed in the quality of the trolls. this is a subject just begging for a good trolling and you losers can't even manage a 1/2 way decent black troll?

Yeah but

[buss_error]

What I really want to know is if it's really Stephen Hawking in this ad or if it's someone else. (near the end, a quick camio, right after Adam sets Jamie's arm on fire with a blow torch.)

.

I can see Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman doing this ad, and I can see where having Stephen Hawking would totally rock, but I can't quite wrap my mind around Dr. Hawking having such a... flexable sense of humor. One doesn't expect to see someone with that amount of sheer brain power to have feet of clay... or even a sense of humor that I could understand.

Totally rocks though, if true.

Re:Yeah but

[Ambiguous Puzuma]

It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Stephen Hawking has had guest appearances and cameos on a number of TV shows, including "Alien Planet" on the Discovery Channel:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0370071/

From everything I've read Stephen Hawking is quite good-natured and has a remarkable sense of humor. He has commented that he's flattered by "MC Hawking", and he showed he was willing to poke fun at himself on the Futurama episode "Anthology of Interest I".

Nichols: It's about that rip in spacetime that you saw.
Hawking: I call it a "Hawking hole".
Fry: No fair! I saw it first!
Hawking: Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?

Fry: So then my chair tilted back and I almost fell into this freezer thingy.
Hawking: I call it a "Hawking chamber".

(Al Gore got the best line of the episode, though, with "I'm a 10th level Vice President!")

Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[turing_m]

DNA is a program. It is a program that has features (and bugs) that vary in different regions. These features cluster together, and those larger clusters we call "race".

You are basically saying that if you take notepad.exe and stick it in a xeon, suddenly it is going to grow all sorts of features beyond "find and replace". The converse holds, because if you take vim and put it into a system with not enough memory to run it, sure, it probably won't run, or maybe a few features won't work. It would still probably be more featureful than notepad.exe though.

Either that or you are making an argument that intellectual capacity is something not coded for in DNA (why are humans more intelligent than slugs if not for DNA?), or that the different clusters of people all have the exact same average potential intellect (seeing how every other aspect varies by race, why would this aspect be an exception?). While unsound, the argument is certain to garner you +5 insightful from the PC faithful.

Re:Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[WrongMonkey]

DNA is a program. It is a program that has features (and bugs) that vary in different regions. These features cluster together, and those larger clusters we call "race".

You've already failed to demonstrate intelligence in your first paragraph. Definitions of race have next to nothing to do with "clustering" of genetics. As a very applicable example, Africa has extremely high genetic diversity compared to other human populations.

Is there a gene for intelligence? I don't know. But it's beyond ludicrous to suggest that a gene for intelligence has anything to do with the genes for skin color. Any attempt to justify your brand of racism through genetics has fallen flat on its face.

Re:Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[rhakka]

DNA is not a program. there is more to it than that.

if you chronically do not get proper nutrition growing up, for example, whether you had einstein DNA or T.Rex DNA, you won't be able to realize the full potential of your natural abilities.

just watched a perfect example of that this evening; the fistula epidemic in africa. girls who don't get enough calories growing up working hard grow up small. They can't birth easily and have massive complications. They would have grown taller if they had enough to eat for the work they were doing, but they did not.

Likewise, intelligence is only useful, truly useful, with an education. Otherwise, it can just as easily be turned to figuring out how to kill people as to how to help them.

DNA just gives you an upper boundary. Environment, lifestyle, culture reduce that to some degree; more in some situations than in others, but some reduction in all cases.

Re:Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[H0D_G]

by your argument, all migrants are stupid. like your analogy. intellectual capacity is a)undefined genetically and b) undefined in your comment

Re:Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[Hal_Porter]

Maybe Africa is a brutish place that selects for brutish people? You can sort of see a hint of this in this article. Non brutish people exist in Africa but they won't do very well. Either they'll stay poor or leave for Europe or the US. I've met lots of them running businesses and raising familes in London, and none of them had any intention of going back 'home' because they couldn't do either there.

Brutish people get rich and powerful but mostly from corruption. Rich and powerful people tend to have lots of kids and those kids have a greater than average chance of being rich and powerful. In fact Kenyans have a word for people like this, Mabenzi for Mecedes Benz driver.

http://www.mambogani.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t2760.html
Kip,

You are not going to destroy the only living legend Kenyans have had in a long time without me saying something. If Kip Keino had an ego, he would be in politics not in charitable organisations. Mark my word Kip, if Kip Keino decided to stand for elective office, he would win by the largest margin in Kenya's history.

I am one of the many Kenyans who felt cheated that I never saw the man run. I only realized how great Kipchoge Keino was when I left the country. I have met many non-Kenyans who would recite all the great Keino races as if it happened yesterday. I had a chance to meet Keino twice, once in Kenya and another in the USA. What a contrast? In the USA he was being mobbed and I only saw a glimpse of him. In the country of his birth, I could not believe what I was seeing.

This was on Kenyatta Avenue next to the GPO. The busiest thoroughfare in the country. Kip was crossing the street just like any other Kenyan minding their business. Here comes a Mabenzi with his stolen wealth arrogantly shoving his way past the great one and almost knocking him off balance. The great one just smiled and continued with his majestic walk. The Mabenzi couldn't even smile. Kept looking over his shoulder. A sure sign of stress and unease.

Kip walked from GPO to New Stanley and very few people recognized him. Which is a good thing. The bad of it is that we worship European soccer players but do not recognize our own.

Smart Africans like the ones I met in London don't want to have their businesses confiscated by these parasites so they leave. The end result is a mass of poor people and a few Mabenzi with all the money, power and women. So you could say that evolutionary pressure selects for Mabenzi.

And before you suggest more aid from the West, it's aid that sustains the Mabenzi. The Economist did a wonderfully cynical study that showed the correlation between sales of high end European cars to Africa and aid money.

Re:Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[Viol8]

You're making the age old mistake of assuming that genetic diversity somehow precludes common traits arrising - such as similar skin colour, nose shape, hair type - whenb clearly it doesnt. Ergo theres no reason to presume it would preclude a lower average IQ than other areas in the world.

Btw , calling someone racist simply because you don't happen to like their views that different races may be different is pathetically childish, though standard tactics for people of the right-on persuation.

Re:Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[Viol8]

"ntellectual capacity is a)undefined genetically"

Really? So physical attributes are undefined genetically too? Or is intelligence somehow magic and is unrelated to our DNA? In that case how come homo sapiens are so much smarter than other animals if its not genetic? You can't have it both ways pal.

Re:Go ahead, mod me troll and flamebait

[sm62704]

First, human DNA is 99% the same as a chimp's.

Second, it has been mathematically proven (and sorry, I'm too lazy to google) that every person alive now is descended from every person alive 1000 years ago who have descendants alive today. That means that all of us share DNA with everyone of all races.

Third, likening DNA to a computer program is anthropomorphising computer programs.

Intellectual capacity isn't coded for in DNA, MAXIMUM intellictual capacity is. Your ability to learn can only diminish after birth. Ingest the wrong substance, suffer an injury, or high fevers, and you will suffer brain damage which will decrease said capacity.

If you're born with down's syndrome you're not going to be a rocket scientest. But if you're born of two genius parents and suffer a high enough fever, just once, and you're going to be in the same institution as the down's syndrom kid.

Good luck Stephen!

[Anonymous Coward]

As if a bunch of ISLAMIC NIGGERS can think about anything other than killing each other for the white man's table scraps.

Well, then...

[Anonymous Coward]

The next time Oobla Boobla breaks something, Mr. Hawking can pay the bill.
That's right, Git-R-Done!

Hawking is on a fool's errand

[Anonymous Coward]

Proof positive that expertise in one area does not translate to others. Hawking knows nothing or won't admit the real reason for Africa's being a black hole for human achievement.

It's culture. Other places were colonized, some quite brutally. China, Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, all come to mind. Other places knew starvation and tribalism and despair that dwarfs that of Africa. A third of German speakers were slaughtered during the Thirty Years War.

Africa's problem, besides tribalism to the extreme (a problem in Europe till the 1600's, China until Mao, and Korea until the 1950's) is Big Man culture. There is no cooperation, no rule of law, no work hard get ahead. No space for guys like Einstein. When your continent consists of variants like Idi Amin or Charles Taylor etc. all you're going to get is guys who are good at fighting other guys, and not much else.

This is Africa's problem, it's deeply rooted, it's not going to change any time soon. Hawking is wasting time and money, but it's his to throw away. Only Africans themselves can fix this, and I don't see that happening any century soon. "There's a lot of ruin in a nation." And there is.

Searchiing through Africa....

[rts008]

Dr. Livingston, I presume?

No, generally, I'm relatively sure I'm Al Einstein. You haven't seen that Hawking fellow have you. I heard he was looking for me, and figured he'd never find me here! You won't tell him will you?

South Africa needs help with maths?

[AHuxley]

"first post-graduate centre for maths and physics"
South Africa built a few air drop nukes and maybe tested one too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
They also built Secunda, a neat coal-to-liquids plant.

I was there, and blogged

[andyr]

I was there, it was great, I blogged about it.. I was very pleased to meet and listen to Michael Griffin - head of NASA. One doesn't often have all these important people milling around for two days - they are usually at the other end of a red carpet for 5 minutes.

math and physics can make you rich?

[tinkerton]

That's a rather strong claim they're making there. Dear mathematicians, don't quit your day job yet is what I'm thinking. Oh, you're teachers!

good time to be a lion

[pbhj]

If anyone wants to buy futures in reincarnating as an African lion drop me a line.

Boom time on the African savanna is just around the corner. Don't miss out on this once in a lifetime opportunity.

Call now!

Bwahahahaaa

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in South Africa and I think this is hillarious. Most South Africans are so clueless, that this didn't even make the news! And did you read the line up of speakers? It's a list of people who are brilliant and want to improve the sitation around here and then the idiot most responsible for the fact that its going downhill fast. Bwahahaha

I Heard They Found

[Anonymous Coward]

some chimps smart enough to use twigs to dig for termites.

The Premise is Incorrect

[geekbeater]

Wealth has never been created by geniuses per se. Unless they have two other elements that need to exist. Extreme motivation, and the opportunity for capitalism. Most of Africa is controlled by socialist / communist governments, and never in the history of the world has socialism built and promoted wealth. The countries with the most freedoms, owning property, basic human rights, etc. are the wealthiest nations. Don't give me "China" either. Per capita they are a third world country. The government controls who has the wealth, and only if it benefits the "state". If Hawking wants to promote the creation of wealth in Africa, he should be there promoting freedom. Worked for us over 200 yrs ago.

Doomed to Failure

[MSTCrow5429]

Einstein was a Jew. Jews have a natural tendency towards high IQ due to environmental variables that encouraged endogamy and a culture that highly prized intellectual and educational achievement. Africans, unfortunately, are not known for high IQs, and the environmental variables that would give rise to high IQs are not in place. It would take thousands of years of natural eugenics, as with Jews, to create an outcome where an African Einstein is within the realm of possibility. You cannot take a person and mold them into something else by tossing them into a school. You cannot rewire their brains to such an extent. It would be better to simply seek out the most intelligent Africans you can find, and see how far they can go, without burdening them with a near impossible goal for anyone, of any race.

Re:Doomed to Failure

[MSTCrow5429]

Note, 10-year old Jewish boy attending college: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080514/D90LCS4G0.html

Re:Doomed to Failure

[mweather]

I think you're confusing IQ test scores with actual IQ. Give an IQ test designed for Africans to non-Africans, and they'll score low too. Cultural bias in IQ tests is hard to eliminate. Autistic children are smarter than many of their peers, but score sub-retarded on IQ tests. Kim Peek (not autistic, I know) scores below average on IQ tests, for another example.

Re:Doomed to Failure

[MSTCrow5429]

"Cultural bias" is a non-starter. IQ tests are not subject matter tests. They are patterns, shapes, numbers, etc. If an IQ test designed by Africans somehow magically made them better scorers, the test would almost certainly be invalid as an IQ test. While it may be hard to take an actual IQ test, there are decent facsimiles floating around the internet. Tickle.com has one that, for me, seemed within the margin of error. Try that. Other than being in English, there's no cultural artifacts involved.

do western values exacerbate Africa's problems

[GIS.thrills]

since when does math and science create what Africans consider wealth? their quality of life is not tied to their gdp. Hawking's Einsteins seem like another African resource to exploit.

Re:Einstein didn't create much Quantum Mechanics

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm.. I'm not sure Einstein was much of a pioneer in Quantum Mechanics.