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Big Rigs Go High Tech

pottercw writes "Trucking may not seem like a high-tech industry to the casual observer, but major carriers are starting to adopt an array of emerging technologies to combat rising fuel costs, tighter regulation and fierce competition. The technologies include systems that monitor and communicate vehicle conditions and performance, enhanced GPSs that keep tabs on tractors and trailers, and safety systems which issue warnings or even take action to help drivers avoid an accident — all working in real time. Computerworld has a cool mouseover diagram highlighting some of the gadgets we're beginning to see on high-tech trucks."

288 comments

  1. You cannot let this article stay posted! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Once everyone finds out that the Semi Trucks drive themselves, the truckers' union will overthrow society!

    1. Re:You cannot let this article stay posted! by eln · · Score: 1, Funny

      Nah, they'll just find some other scam like bootlegging Beanie Babies.

    2. Re:You cannot let this article stay posted! by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The California prison guards will beat' em to it.

    3. Re:You cannot let this article stay posted! by Neanderthal+Ninny · · Score: 1

      Good luck. I drove one college and even with all of this technology they are not easy to drive. None of them have automatic transmissions and stirring through the gears takes some getting used to. Also the air brakes are not like the hydraulic braking in your car, air brakes don't give you feedback and slamming on the brakes will just jackknife your rig since the load (trailer) will still want to keep moving while you (in the tractor) will want to stop, hence, the ass meeting the face the hard way. For those who like to cut in front of those semi's, it takes over 300 feet to stop an semi under good conditions and a average load so unless you want to be payment sandwich I would think twice.
      This stuff will not help actually driving (ie shifting gears and steering) the rig but will assist the driver by reducing the workload of monitoring the mechanical systems, where you are going and best way to get there, and keeping within the safety range of the vehicle.

  2. Big Red by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot really needs to get with the times. The Navitron Autodrive System is nearly ten year-old news, though remains a little known secret known to many truckers falling asleep at the wheel.

    If only it could have saved poor Red from beef poisoning at Sirloin A Lot, sadly that feature was still in beta.

    -Matt

    viva Homer!

    --
    --- Need web hosting?
    1. Re:Big Red by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot really needs to get with the times. The Navitron Autodrive System is nearly ten year-old news, yeah, but what are YOU gonna do about it?
    2. Re:Big Red by slashtivus · · Score: 5, Informative

      My last neighbor (still keep in touch) was a big rig driver. He would park the corporate truck out by our small apartment complex sometimes, and let me have a look from the driver's seat. I was amazed at all of the controls and dials for every little thing: 4 exhaust temp sensors can tell you health of engine or proper gear, axle temps + oil levels, wheel pressures etc etc. This was all recorded and uploaded to corp HQ as well. Little things add up to big money when you run a trucking company, and it is really worth the little extra to purchase the extra sensors and avoid wasted fuel and prevent unneeded repairs when maintenance would do. This was 10 years ago when fuel was cheaper. Old news.

    3. Re:Big Red by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Yes, but, will any of these advances help you find hookers or some meth, to help on those LONG hauls...

      :-)

      Well.....at least the hookers, not everyone does drugs.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Big Red by neoform · · Score: 1

      Haha, I clicked this story just to post that. You beat me to it ;)

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    5. Re:Big Red by lgw · · Score: 1

      I just hope that for the "adaptive cruise control" mentioned in TFA, trucker usage drives this technology to somehting better that we have today. Today's systems seem to go into "ZOMG I GONNA DIE" mode when ever you're on a freeway offramp or otherwise catch a safety railing in the radar while turning.

      Similarly, lane departure warning doesn't work today when you'd really like it too, like when it's raining very heavily and it's hard to see the stripes on the road.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Big Red by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 3, Informative

      In trucker jargon the "hookers" are known as "Lot Lizards", you insensitive clod!

    7. Re:Big Red by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Lane departure is being done all wrong. We need to get the various road authorities to start mixing something like this into the paint that they paint the lines with. Then vehicles could use RFID readers to no only know when they are departing a lane, but they could use this instead of GPS to identify where they are.

    8. Re:Big Red by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't want anything stopping what happened near chicago the past week, a semi loaded with oreos crashed and sent those lovely cookies all over the road, i have like a basket full of em!

    9. Re:Big Red by sporkme · · Score: 2, Funny

      My father was in charge of international maintenance for Celadon trucking for several years, ending something like ten years ago. Certain incidents involving roadway accidents fell under his purview, including bridge entrapment (remotely authorize the release of air pressure from tires), accidents suspected to be caused by equipment failure, and one particular snarl that required his travel to the accident scene:

      This predates graphical GPS navigation systems, but efforts had been made in this direction to facilitate the on time arrival of loads. Someone would have to travel the route in advance, marking significant coordinates and noting instructions to be carried out as they are reached. One note was made, "turn left at the railroad tracks."

      One driver made the judgment that this meant that he should actually steer his rig onto the railroad tracks. He succeeded. Fortunately, a passing motorist called the police, who contacted the rail authorities who stopped the trains. It cost the company significantly in delayed rail freight costs and such, and the driver was found to be heavily influenced by drugs.

    10. Re:Big Red by Gertlex · · Score: 1

      Do we even want to know what happened to your other neighbors?

      I'm not implying anything, oh no, definitely not. :)

    11. Re:Big Red by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 4, Funny

      They solved that years ago with CB radio...

      I'm heading west, and I'm looking for a whore!

    12. Re:Big Red by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so you should have sent that in 10 years ago.

    13. Re:Big Red by zippthorne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it didn't crash into a Milk truck, it isn't news.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    14. Re:Big Red by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You still end up with the same problem as optical devices for detecting the pavement edge. As the paint wears, the RFID tags end up in the ditch or storm drain rather than on the edge of the pavement. The paint is the weak link. The tag reader can't detect what's not there.

      Some companies are developing very accurate digital models of the earth. A combination of GPS and dead reckoning may supplement an optical system for detecting rigs or cars that are heading off the road.

    15. Re:Big Red by roblarky · · Score: 0

      My wife and I drove team for a few years, and I hate lot lizards. Nothing worse than being awakened at 2AM by some skanky, teeth missing, crack whore. What's worse, I say I'm married and she says we can do a three-way. After that, I bought the stickers for the windows you can get from truck stops, it's a lizard with a cigarette and a international red circle with a line through it. Worked most of the time..

    16. Re:Big Red by sjbe · · Score: 2, Funny

      The father of a classmate of mine many years ago owned a trucking company and as you might expect he occasionally got calls to deal with accidents as you might expect. One evening he gets a call that one of his trucks was stuck under a bridge that was too short for the truck to fit under. He goes to the scene and sure enough, the driver had rammed the truck nice and tightly underneath even though the bridge was clearly marked as having too little clearance for the truck to make it. When asked the driver reportedly said "I thought if I sped up I could make it."

      !!!

      I'm not sure if any drugs were involved but gross stupidity clearly was a contributing factor.

    17. Re:Big Red by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What we NEED is a combination of every road being divided, and a millimeter-wave radar system capable of locating road boundaries and paint that has been covered in rubber from some skidding dipshit. Then this whole autodrive thing is easy :)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Big Red by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      What you are asking for is not going to happen in the next twenty years. Putting RFID into the paint could happen tomorrow.

    19. Re:Big Red by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe I'm not reading your post right, but it seems to me a truck should not be on cruise control while on a freeway offramp.

    20. Re:Big Red by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What you are asking for is not going to happen in the next twenty years. Putting RFID into the paint could happen tomorrow.

      But will it really help? Will the tags really hold up? I doubt it. I suspect solar activity will be enough to fry 'em. It seems to kill everything else over time (esp. transformers.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Big Red by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I would guess that they would hold up pretty well. The only concern would be heat. UV and whatnot would not matter because it is IN the paint. Completely covered. Also, since there would be millions of them, it could easily be very robust when it comes to dealing with even very high failures. If a section of road lost enough of the tags to overcome the massive redundancy, repairing the system would only entail bringing out a lane striper to paint a new line. Also, proactivly testing the system would only require that driving the road in question. You could even probably automate the testing with cheap robotics, as making a line following R/C sized car is cheap and simple. It's the kind of thing you might see in a 6th grade science fair today.

    22. Re:Big Red by ittybad · · Score: 1

      I believe the PR term is "recreational reptile."

      --
      No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood.
    23. Re:Big Red by kendric · · Score: 1

      I'm the head of IT for a trucking company, and I like to think we are at the forefront of technology. We have built into our GPS systems all those sensors that will phone back home and anyone in the main office can track all those sensors. A big thing that we like with the auto phone back, if the truck gets into an accident it will automatically contact rescue and get ambulances on the way. We have been lucky, our company averages about 10 million km a year and we have never had the thing have to phone for help yet other than testing the system to see if it work. My favorite bit of technology that we have are multiple screens. Our bigger trucks have at least 3 or 4 cameras on them routed the the cab of the truck to an LCD screen that allows the driver to avoid blind spots and drive with precision and accuracy that was unheard of years ago. With our specialty hauling of oil field equipment, we find that items need to be loaded and unloaded to within 10cm based on engineers and geologist's recommendations. I never really thought that our technology was that interesting or unique, but looking at the positive response to some of the mundane technologies, I should put a technology section on our companies website to show off some of our biggest and best trucks and the technology in them.

    24. Re:Big Red by slashtivus · · Score: 1

      Putting up a section on the tech that your trucks use might get more hits than you would imagine. Even a picture of the dash instrumentation would be interesting to people simply because they have never seen it. I was suprised by it, but immediately understood the usefulness for fuel-efficiency and preventative maintenance. Hadn't heard of the cameras before, thanks.

  3. Am I the only one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who read the title and thought "OH NO, A SEQUEL!?"

    1. Re:Am I the only one... by Mesa+MIke · · Score: 1

      You mean, a sequel to this?

    2. Re:Am I the only one... by sporkme · · Score: 1

      You can't beat me on the grade!!!

      "I play meat."
      "You play meat?"
      "That's sick man, sick!"


      Spielberg's finest hour.

    3. Re:Am I the only one... by danwat1234 · · Score: 1

      Alright! Duel is on Google video! http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=duel%201971&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv# Man, thanks guys for letting me in on this film!

    4. Re:Am I the only one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phew, I'm not the only one it seems.

    5. Re:Am I the only one... by Novus · · Score: 1

      That would still be an improvement over a sequel to this.

    6. Re:Am I the only one... by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 1

      No, but your winner for thinking of it first.

    7. Re:Am I the only one... by somersault · · Score: 1

      Haven't heard of that one before.. they should have just open sourced it and it may have turned into a semi-playable game.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    8. Re:Am I the only one... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      I, for one, am waiting for "BJ and the Bear: The Movie".

      --
      That is all.
  4. Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this help with the fact that a lot of stuff can be shipped more efficiently by train?

    1. Re:Fuel Efficiency by fishbowl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No... and it doesn't help the transportation industry one bit that transportation costs are approaching a threshold where locally produced goods can compete.

      For generations, moving goods around has been treated as nothing but a small marginal cost. This means we have been able to take for granted the origin of goods.

      Of course the fact is, margins still allow us to take it for granted, and they still would, even with a doubling of the current prices of fuel. Fuel does not yet dominate the cost of transportation, and the cost of transportation does not yet dominate the the cost of agricultural commodities.

      But, don't listen to me. Listen to the voices that really want you to be angry about fuel prices. Maybe there really is some conspiracy driving up the prices (while staying hidden within the competitive, transparent marketplace where the value is established, and where the prices can only be explained by investor behavior, since the only other factors of supply, demand, and reserves do not explain it.)

      Oh, that's scarier than any boogeyman can possibly be: what if the market really does bear $136/bbl crude, without any nefarious or criminal interference in the market?

      Well, it's the only commodity that has a scoreboard on every corner, and the only one where people honestly expect me to get upset about it, to make it a priority.

      Tell you what: When fuel reaches 1% of my annual budget, I'll give it a line item. When fuel reaches a level that it is a significant marginal cost in delivering goods to retail marketplaces, I'll buy locally produced goods. Local economy will be happy. /me stands by for the screams about cartels and oil company profits.

      If you have experience in commodities or degrees in economics, you might be able to persade me.

      I've been called clueless for my opinions. I do happen to know a thing or two about the transportation business, particularly trucking, particularly in the ag sector.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    2. Re:Fuel Efficiency by outcast36 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      fuel isn't 1% of your budget? I'm impressed. If you have to fill up your tank once a week, then you're spending at least $40. This is a weekly income of $4K, or over $200K/annually. I consider myself a conservative driver. I hate cars and I hate traffic, but between my wife & I, fuel costs are far above 1% and even approaching 5%.

    3. Re:Fuel Efficiency by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Transportation is already factored into about 24% of the economy. From the manufacture of cars, planes, etc., to the cost of moving people and goods, fuel for police cars and fire trucks, fuel for the construction equipment that paves the roads, removes the snow, delivers mail and packages, runs the trucks that install and maintain your internet access, etc. So, unless you're not paying taxes, not buying anything, not eating, never sending or receiving mail, or surfing the net, you're already paying more than 1% of your income, either directly or indirectly, in diesel and gasoline.

    4. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When fuel reaches 1% of my annual budget, I'll give it a line item. Pretentious asshole. Fuel is already 10% or more of most Americans' budget. Every tick higher means working is less effective, because even if any recreational fuel use is excluded the cost of showing up every day is on the rise, and that means less money in citizens' pockets. So even before you start insisting that despite fuel costs for transporting goods having more than doubled in the past year, the cost of goods isn't really going to go up: people have less money to spend on goods regardless of where they came from. But you wouldn't have any concern for that, your house on the hill is far enough away from the cries of the peasants, that you don't need to be bothered with trivia like the lifeblood of the economy drying up (by becoming scarce) and leaving the middle class to fend for themselves.
    5. Re:Fuel Efficiency by RexRhino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some of us live in these places called cities, where we can walk to places, and if that is too far we can take a bus or subway for next to nothing. :)

      I don't know about the guy who posted the original message, but many people in cities don't even own cars. I own a car, but I only use it when I want to move furniture or buy a lot of groceries... my gas expenditure is nowhere near 1%.

      1% is low for the suburbanite / rural folk, but not for the urbanite.

    6. Re:Fuel Efficiency by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      > "fuel isn't 1% of your budget? I'm impressed. If you have to fill up your tank once a week, then you're spending at least $40. This is a weekly income of $4K, or over $200K/annually. I consider myself a conservative driver. I hate cars and I hate traffic, but between my wife & I, fuel costs are far above 1% and even approaching 5%."

      Do you live a LONG way from work? Do you drive something that gets bad gas mileage?

      I'm not sure the distance to work..but, with not much traffic except in one area..takes me about 22 min to work. I fill up about once every 1.5 weeks or so..depending on how heavy a foot I have in the turbo. It costs about $30-$33 to fill up I think....I really don't look at the pump very often. So, I basically spend about $90/mo on gas. That's less than 1% of my salary yes....

      My car gets roughly 23 mpg in the city..I've been riding my motorcycle a lot now that the weather is nice...it gets abotu 33-34mpg (big engine, Yamaha Roadliner)....

      Man...I have the feeling that SUV resale prices are gonna get pretty much nil soon....what is trade in on one of those going for these days?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Fuel Efficiency by himurabattousai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      fuel isn't 1% of your budget? I'm impressed. If you have to fill up your tank once a week, then you're spending at least $40. This is a weekly income of $4K, or over $200K/annually.

      I consider myself a conservative driver. I hate cars and I hate traffic, but between my wife & I, fuel costs are far above 1% and even approaching 5%. I only wish I had the money to where less than one percent was for gas. In my case, it's almost ten percent, and that's with a car that gets better than 30 mpg city (a '96 Saturn--1.9L I-4 w/5 a speed gearbox). Granted, I don't make much money, but unless you get obscene gas mileage, you'd have to pull down six digits to spend less than one percent of that on gas.

      I'd guess that the vast majority of households are at least 5 percent of income to fuel. Figure that based on average yearly fuel costs on the following minimums: two fill-ups per month at 50 dollars (12 gallons E to F) to 70 dollars a visit (17 gallons E to F), plus an extra two visits because there are four weeks extra spread over twelve months, for a yearly total of 1300 to 1800 dollars at current prices. That's just for one typical (Accord, Camry, etc) car, and before taxes are taken out. If taxes suck away a third of your income before you see it, then that almost doubles your percentage of income for fuel.

      Thank the piss-poor US dollar, inflation, needless war in Iraq, greedy oil execs, or whatever else suits your fancy. The 1920's will look like a cakewalk compared to what awaits us on our current course, and those of us who still have money will wish they could only spend a handful of percent of it on gas.
      --
      "osake no hou ga, biiru yori ii" to omotteiru.
    8. Re:Fuel Efficiency by imboboage0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Disregarding everything else you said (I just don't feel like typing =] )...

      When fuel reaches 1% of my annual budget, I'll give it a line item.

      I just graduated from high school yesterday. I don't exactly make bank, but it's not minimum wage by a longshot. However, just in fuel to get to school, work, and home, i was spending up to 40% of my income. Even if I were just going to work, it would be nearly 30% of my income.

      I think the price of fuel hits harder for those in the lower classes, but I'm not an expert so take it with a grain of salt.

      --
      Honesty may be the best policy, but by process of elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.
    9. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      Your weekly budget is the same as your income? Don't you have such a thing as savings?

    10. Re:Fuel Efficiency by afidel · · Score: 1

      The cost of almost all other commodities is driven by the cost of energy! It takes energy to mine and refine metals, it takes energy to fertilize, harvest, and transport grains, etc. Of course there has not been a huge move in the cost of energy worldwide, it is mostly the devaluation of the dollar increasing the cost of oil for US consumers, the cost in Europe for instance hasn't significantly risen due to the strength of the euro vs the dollar.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    11. Re:Fuel Efficiency by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >If you have to fill up your tank once a week

      I don't. I made choices in life in order to be less sensitive to the price of gas. You could do the same.

      5% eh? So, no doubt, still not your biggest worry.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    12. Re:Fuel Efficiency by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >Pretentious asshole.

      I *will* take the benefit of choices I make in life.

      I *will not* read anything you have to say, after you go to the level of personal insult.
      Whatever you wrote, went away, after "asshole."

      I *never* sink to this level, and I *will not* engage in dialogue with anyone who does.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    13. Re:Fuel Efficiency by fat_mike · · Score: 0

      I live in a "city" and I don't have public transportation. I stressed for 10 months trying to decide whether to buy a house in a nice place or one in an okay place closer to work because of gas prices. I decided on the latter.

      Have you actually looked at a map and seen just how big this country is? Have you seen how spread out cities that aren't situated in areas where they have no land to expand to are?

      I almost forgot :)

    14. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bitch eh?

    15. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hated cars and traffic so much I moved to a city, so I spend virtually nothing on fuel. I drive my car once or twice a week, and I plan to cut down on that, too. I buy fuel a couple times a year.

      But even when I lived in the suburbs and commuted every day, I didn't fill up once a week -- only about once a month. At $50-70/tank, it was around 1% of my income (but yes, well over 1% of my budget).

      I can't imagine driving so much that I'd need to fill up once a week. That seems a bit insane.

    16. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good job on the H.S. thing. It can only get better, for now.

    17. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have to agree, at least in part, with this. Transportation used to be an almost too small a portion of the price of a product. I did about a year as a long haul truck driver a decade or so back, and I was amazed by how much of what is shipped around the country is just paper...literally! I would take paper from a mill in Maine, deliver it to a warehouse in North Carolina, then pick up another load of paper and deliver it to Wisconsin, where I would pick up yet another load of paper! There were a couple months in which I only hauled paper products back and forth across the country. I was constantly astonished that businesses could find it cheaper to buy cardboard boxes or toilet paper from a thousand miles away rather than the mill ten miles down the road.

    18. Re:Fuel Efficiency by floodo1 · · Score: 0

      well thanks for sharing your extremely rare personal experiences. I'm glad you live in some urban environment where you can avoid being sensitive to the price of gas.

      Too bad that everyone else is orders of magnitude more sensitive than you. Thanks for wasting our time.

      --
      I KUT J00 M4NG!!!
    19. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Omestes · · Score: 5, Informative

      Your thinking of those vertical, high population density cities on the east coast right?

      My city is 550 square miles, not counting the suburbs (around 9000 square miles, including the full metropolitan area), and has around 2000 people per square mile. Compare to New York city, with 300 or so square miles, with TWICE the population (27,282 per square mile, more and an order of magnitude larger).

      Most cities in the west are huge sprawling behemoths. Even with public transportation, it still would add around an hour to the average commute, or more. Sadly, Phoenix doesn't even really have that. Our bus service is spotty, infrequent, and unreliable, and barely covers most of the central part of the city, much less the outskirts.

      We also have the same problems as other cities, the closer to the city center (thus jobs) you are, you either have to cope with high prices, or nasty ghetto. The only middle-class compromise is to move further and further out, thus increasing trip times, and eliminated public transit as a viable, and timely option. Statistically, only 3% of people in Pheonix use public transit to commute, while 72% drive their own cars to work.

      There is much more to the US than the east coast.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    20. Re:Fuel Efficiency by drspliff · · Score: 1

      To put this into perspect, in the UK people are starting to complain that it's costing them £80 a time to fill up, thats nearly $160 USD.

      We don't have so much of a car culture or the need to drive obscene distances every day, so it's much less of a problem.

    21. Re:Fuel Efficiency by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Does this help with the fact that a lot of stuff can be shipped more efficiently by train?

      However, as we have learned since moving to Switzerland, "efficient" does not necessarily mean "fast".

    22. Re:Fuel Efficiency by quantumplacet · · Score: 1

      you *will* make sure to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are in fact a pretentious asshole

    23. Re:Fuel Efficiency by darthflo · · Score: 1

      Depends. Try driving from Berne to Zurich around 1700. Train (station to station, both quite centralized) takes 58 minutes while driving (Highway on- to offramp, rather off centre) at an ideal 124 km/h (120 km/h legal limit plus 4 km/h safety margin for laser measurements) those 121.5 kilometers will take 0.8 minutes more. Assuming a very optimistic 110 km/h, driving will actually add about 15% to your travel time.

      Berne - Zurich may be a somewhat unfair example as it's one of the most important sections -- but large parts of the swiss train network are similarly fast and extremely on time. Going by train will get you to most places equally fast as driving and let you do work, eat relaxedly, enjoy a movie or enjoy some quality time with your significant other joining the rail high club. Or so I heard. Heh.

      Also, regarding your sig: Wine 1.0 is scheduled (and apparently moving ahead on time) for release in june, 1.0-rc1 is out.

    24. Re:Fuel Efficiency by somersault · · Score: 1

      The guy says he hates cars too, so he probably doesn't even know how to be fuel efficient with his driving..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    25. Re:Fuel Efficiency by somersault · · Score: 1

      Maybe someone who has to spend 10% of their income just to commute needs to look at a more efficient method of commuting? Motorcycles, or even bicycles? And if they have to commute 50 miles or something to work then they should look into either relocating their house, their job, or looking into telecommuting. I know that is very difficult for a lot of scenarios, of course - but Americans tend to drive unnecessarily large cars with unecessarily large engines, and think that 30mpg is 'fuel efficient'. My diesel hatchback was getting 36mpg even though I thrash it all the time. If I drove like an old lady I could probably get more 40mpg out of it even around town, and about 50-60mpg out on intercity roads.. likewise when I had my little motorbike I probably got 70 mpg or more. The only reason I don't still have a motorbike is that it got stolen so I realised I'd need a place with a garage if I wanted to have a motorbike :(

      I understand that the distance between cities, or even travel distances inside cities, are much higher in America - but the price of fuel is still insanely cheap compared to over here in the UK (though at lot of the difference is tax). I saw diesel for £1.30 a litre.. that's like $10 a gallon isn't it? It's sad to hear people whine so much when they don't realise just how good they have it. "Oh no, I can't drive my SUV to work any more! I need all that space in the back and front to .. uh.. hmm". People who need an SUV for work should have their fuel paid by their employers anyway. Other people who just use SUVs to occasionally haul wood or whatever excuse they use, would be better off driving a smaller car and renting a truck whenever they really need it. And by 'small' car I don't mean a BMW 3 series or equivalent. I mean like Honda Civic size or even smaller. I couldn't believe how big the roads and cars were when I visited Canada.. and I imagine the US is very similar.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    26. Re:Fuel Efficiency by somersault · · Score: 1

      The price of anything hits harder for those that make less money (apart from income tax or equivalent). Unless you want to become communist or socialist then you can't do much about it. How far do you have to travel to work? I think for just commuting I'd spend less than 1% of my gross salary per year, but that's only a commute of about 3 miles a day.. I'm now making almost twice what I made as a student though :) I think including all the fuel I buy each year it would come to about 3% total of my wages.

      I've just been banned from driving anyway so I don't have to worry about all this just now :p

      --
      which is totally what she said
    27. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Torvaun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please, allow me to translate his comment from jerk to English.

      Good for you, to be able to manage 1%. Unfortunately, for most Americans, it's closer to 10%, if not higher, and even if we can cut out all extraneous driving, going to work is getting less and less profitable due to the increased costs of going. I respectfully disagree with your position that our sharply rising fuel costs are not going to increase the costs of transported goods, but even if that is the case, the supply of money people have to buy said goods is going down. This -is- a problem, and it's a problem that's going to affect just about everyone.

      --
      I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
    28. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And now you know exactly how your insolent post sounded. Your assumption that the entire nation is as well of as you is both ignorant and insulting. The mirror is shiny indeed.

      Oh, and don't feel obligated to respond, despite the fact that you insist you will not engage in dialog in the very post which engages in dialog. The point of this is to shine a little light at the pathetic upper class that's choking the life out of society, and you don't have to say another word in order for this to be illustrated.

    29. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your city must be in Europe, possibly eastern Europe. In most US mass transit systems, fares are at least a dollar each way. Ten bucks a week is 1% of a $52,000 annual gross income, which is certainly in the middle-class ballpark, though on the low side for a technology professional.

      I personally live in a dense east-coast US metropolis that happens to have the most expensive mass transit in the US, and found a good job that happens to be in the burbs. I can spend almost ten bucks a *day* if I commute by subway. It does keep the *gas* expenditures down to do that, so I guess I can compete with all the other urbanites on that score.

      Exercise for the reader: Name that metropolis!

      --
      2*3*3*3*3*11*251
    30. Re:Fuel Efficiency by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      That's an incredibly low estimate. The average household in 2001 (the latest data I could find on short notice, today's number is probably higher) bought a little over 1000 gallons of gas a year. Let's just plug in 3.69 a gallon and we arrive at $3690 per year, per household (on average) for gas. What's the median household income? before taxes, $45,016. We can then arrive at a good estimate, 8.1%. That's pre-tax; if you figured it on a slice of spendable income it would be even higher.

    31. Re:Fuel Efficiency by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Depends. Try driving from Berne to Zurich around 1700.

      I was actually making a more generalised comment about "Swiss efficiency" and how that, while the Swiss may well be "efficient", you shouldn't count on anything happening particularly quickly (took 2 months to get my ADSL running, been waiting over 5 months for my B permit to appear - and I'm an EU citizen employed on a good salary, so it's not like there's anything "weird" - very annoying, since we need it for my wife to get hers, etc).

      However, it's also directly relevant. Trains certainly can move things at a "more efficiently" in terms of "energy expenditure per kilogram" or some such, but to do so in terms of freight, they need to be full, which means they can't leave "right now" to get your delivery to your ASAP. In terms of passengers, trains need to run on a schedule - so if you want to arrive or leave outside their schedule, then your trip may well turn out "faster" by car.

      Also, regarding your sig: Wine 1.0 is scheduled (and apparently moving ahead on time) for release in june, 1.0-rc1 is out.

      Indeed. Seems there's only 3 Horsemen of the Apocalypse to go.

    32. Re:Fuel Efficiency by darthflo · · Score: 1

      The gov't bureaucracy takes it's time, speeding that up is usually impossible. Usually, there are interesting alternative routes, though. (I, for one, got a passport in less than 48 hours from asking about for it to holding it in my hand)
      The same goes for our telcos, though insisting on a delivery date and generally being a pain in their lower back will help things (as oppossed to the B permit).

      Well, anyways: Welcome to Switzerland, enjoy your stay ;)

    33. Re:Fuel Efficiency by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Berne - Zurich may be a somewhat unfair example as it's one of the most important sections -- but large parts of the swiss train network are similarly fast and extremely on time. Going by train will get you to most places equally fast as driving and let you do work, eat relaxedly, enjoy a movie or enjoy some quality time with your significant other joining the rail high club. Or so I heard. Heh.

      I forgot to say that, yes, the Swiss Rail system is indeed awesome (although more so the intercity stuff than urban stuff). It takes me ~15 minutes door to door to get to work (Zollikon-Zurich) and the handful of times we've "needed" a vehicle, Mobility.ch was quick and easy.

      We have no plans of purchasing a car - although I am going to get myself a motorcycle to enjoy some of those alpine roads.

    34. Re:Fuel Efficiency by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The specific problem in the USA is that the car companies bought up trolley lines and bus lines and shut them down in order to increase demand for private automobiles; they also bought legislation to terminate rail subsidies and create highway subsidies for the same reason. Thus our public transportation system was actually systematically dismantled between the 1920s and 1950s or so.

      Another problem is that most existing public transportation is useless. When I lived in San Francisco I could drive from home to work and find free parking in 15 minutes or less on most occasions. In order to get to work on public transportation I had to take a bus, light rail, and another bus; this took about an hour and fifteen minutes in the very best case (everything moving fast and don't miss any connections) which was rare; usually more like an hour and a half or even an hour and three quarters. We're talking one of the biggest cities in the country here, with public transportation only useful on your day off. Thanks, but no thanks.

      You do have one salient point though; SUVs are shitty, and the vast majority of people would be able to save a huge bundle every year by driving an econobox and then renting a pickup when they need to haul something.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    35. Re:Fuel Efficiency by himurabattousai · · Score: 1

      It looks like my guesstimates weren't that far off, really. I only did the math for one car; given that most families have two (or even three) cars, your numbers and mine line up rather well.

      Thank you much for providing some (more) concrete numbers.

      --
      "osake no hou ga, biiru yori ii" to omotteiru.
    36. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      You obviously live nowhere near California.

    37. Re:Fuel Efficiency by stubob · · Score: 1
      --
      Planning to be moderated ± 1: Bad Pun.
    38. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 24% and 1% numbers are apples to oranges. Parent said fuel and you said transport costs, which includes labor capital etc.

      Here's a banana. US GDP is $13,840 Billion and we use 20.8 Million barrels per day of oil. 20.8M*365*$130 is $987 Billion a year. So roughly, at current prices US is using 1 Trillion dollars of oil a year in a 14 Trillion dollar economy (ouch). Roughly have the oil used in the US going into transport. So at these prices about 1/28th of US GDP goes to oil for transport. So seems that the orange above is closer to reality and a couple years ago was reality.

      https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

    39. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The well to do are a bit clueless on this. They're thinking it's going to be bad when gas gets past $10-15 a gallon. But I figure the proverbial shit will hit the fan quite a bit sooner. Sure the yuppie might be just fine tooling around (and being a tool)in an SUV with operating costs still as a negligible amount of his income. But good luck with shopping when the drive-thrus, Wal-Mart, big box stores are all closed because all the low wage employees just stopped showing for work. (Maybe some businesses will try to stem this with better wages, company provided transportation and/or a more aggressive car-pooling network, but it may not work well in all cases. Also those just eking by may downgrade to a used econo-car like a Metro, but that's not always possible either.) Not sure if it will get to that point, but it's not completely irrational either. Of course when this does start to happen, expect to see it hitting the rural and suburban areas first. (Longest commutes obviously.) Older more vertical cities should cope a bit better, since there's more min-wage employees having public transportation or being in walking/bicycle distance. And if it's not the minimum wage earners commute costs shutting things down, it still might be the truckers again.

      Infrastructure/transportation really needs some affordable alternatives made available, and soon.

    40. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is much more to the US than the east coast. Right! There's the west coast! Oh, and a lot of crap in the middle.
    41. Re:Fuel Efficiency by somersault · · Score: 1

      Well, I didn't actually mention public transport, I have never really liked that myself either. To get into town from my parents house used to take 25 minutes by car, but since I didn't have a license back then I spent one summer on the bus 1.5 hours each way when getting to work! These days I live in town anyway, but I prefer to walk for 40 minutes uphill to work rather than take a bus when I don't have access to a car!

      Lighter cars are definitely the way to go as fuel prices increase. In places with good weather and good drivers (nowhere?) then 100% motorcycles could be good - with sidecars or trailers for families :p

      --
      which is totally what she said
  5. Huge costs lead to early adoption by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Big rig trucks are very expensive to operate. Time is money. As a result, big rig operators have always been looking for anything that can help them improve efficiency a performance and this makes them into early adopters.

    Communications (CB radios and trunked radio) have always been associated with truckers.

    Big rigs were also the first to use significant engine management. J1939 (one of first uses of CAN) was originally done for big rigs.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Huge costs lead to early adoption by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Big rig trucks are very expensive to operate. Time is money. As a result, big rig operators have always been looking for anything that can help them improve efficiency a performance and this makes them into early adopters. Communications (CB radios and trunked radio) have always been associated with truckers."

      A year or two ago..for fun (and for talking to other car club members when on a run), I got a CB radio and put it in the car. It is fun on the odd long trip I take...to talk with the truckers, and trade 'smokey' reports. I find that by doing this...I often know where the speed traps are LONG before my radar detector goes off.

      That and when riding alone, is kinda fun to just be able to talk to random people.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  6. Technology? Where!? by SeeSp0tRun · · Score: 0, Troll

    What's next Slashdot... are you going to tell me NASCAR is complicated too?

    --
    Something witty.
    1. Re:Technology? Where!? by Grimmreaper74 · · Score: 0

      That's funny, I hate nascar too!!! Dumb redneck bastards driving in a circle and getting paid 7 digits to do it, WTF?

      --
      Live life to the fullest, you only get one chance at it.
    2. Re:Technology? Where!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      7 digits? Where do I send my application again?

  7. I'm a believer in the railroads. by iminplaya · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I don't care for long haul trucking. Especially those damn double trailers. It's insane! Like most accidents the cause is the driver. Will all these gadgets keep him awake? Automated rail is the only way. I just cannot imagine riding your hog, and getting smacked by that goddamn retread coming apart in front of you. It's only a little bit better than some guy leaking his load of gravel on the interstate.

    --
    What?
    1. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      It's only a little bit better than some guy leaking his load of gravel on the interstate. I've always been partial to the effluent spillage from stock trucks. It's dirty, it stinks, AND it can tip you off mid-corner.
      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    2. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Parent a bit heavy-handed but I think the troll mod is unfair since the article romanticizes long-haul trucking.

      Truckin' is still a dirty and unsafe business. BTW, the "retread" parent is referring to is the practice of dremelling new grooves into balding tires(which is legal if the tire was designed for it, but is often done unsafely and illegally, like much truck maintenance).

    3. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      No, actually retreading is the recapping of an old carcass with a new tread. They might be safe, but not enough for my tastes and experience.

      --
      What?
    4. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Wrong, retreads are recaps ie the old tread is removed from the tire casing and new tread (strip of rubber)is added. The glue that hold the cap gets hot
      from under inflation, heavy loads , hot days. Most of the time retreads are put on trailers. If you look closely at the tire you can see the seam.

    5. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by himurabattousai · · Score: 1

      So, you've had to dodge steel-belted at 60+, too? That is some scary-ass shit, regardless of what you're driving.

      The strange thing is that most truck tread carcasses I see appear to have plenty of tread on them. My guess is that, since rubber ages, it's the underlying rubber, and not the tread, that's unsafe. Putting a new tread on a degraded tire is like using masking tape to hold on an outisde mirror.

      --
      "osake no hou ga, biiru yori ii" to omotteiru.
    6. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by Aczlan · · Score: 1

      as others have said, Retreading is adding new rubber, what you are talking about is Regrooving, http://fleetowner.com/equipment/tiretracks/fleet_resist_temptation/ which is different.

      --
      "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote
    7. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by spauldo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Regarding the article you linked to: this is extremely rare. You can't make any money operating equipment like that, except for certain short haul dedicated stuff like construction haulers. Trucks require constant maintenance or they break down in extremely expensive ways.

      Regrooved tires are dangerous in general, and there's no benefit to using them. It costs a lot more to have a tire truck come out than to just buy a retread (not regroove) tire and have it done at a shop. You can't use retreads on the steering axle, and many trucking companies don't use them on the drive axles. Trailers are a different thing - you can go cheap on trailer tires because if one blows out, you can still go down the road for a bit. The other seven are adequate for getting you to the nearest tire shop.

      Now as far as the "dirty and unsafe" part - that doesn't describe the modern trucking industry. Most trucks on the road are less than five years old, with hardly any older than ten. Emissions have been lowered dramatically compared to the old days, and the new fuels are almost sulphur-free. The black stuff you see coming from the stacks? That's soot - unburned carbon. It's not particularly dangerous, although it can contribute to smog. You only see that when the engine is doing something dramatic, like changing gears or taking off. Most of the time a truck is in motion, the engine is working as efficiently as possible and minimizing unburned fuels.

      Most trucks are moving towards having small "lawnmower" engines called APUs (axillary power units) that power the heat/AC system and provide electricity when the truck would normally be idling. I don't have one, but hopefully I will when the lease runs out on my truck. (You have to idle or have one of these APUs in inclement weather - a trucker needs to be fully rested to drive, and that's hard when you're in a truck in the middle of the desert during the summer with no A/C. Not that California cares.)

      Drivers have strict rules they have to follow regarding hours of service and inspections, and while every driver breaks the rules from time to time, you develop a sense of when you need to get off the road. A wreck can destroy your career, and equipment failure can delay your load (and your paycheck). DOT inspects trucks randomly, and they're pretty thorough. Safety is a huge concern for truckers as well as trucking companies, since accidents translate to lost money. It's not worth pushing your drivers past the rules, since DOT can audit you at any time and any accident can turn into a million dollar lawsuit.

      Bear in mind this article is talking about the port of Los Angeles, which just recently banned owner-operators and trucks more than a few years old. California is a very truck-unfriendly state in general and I wouldn't be surprised if this article you pointed out was just propaganda pointing out the worst case.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    8. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      So, how many miles have you driven as a trucker?

      I spent a year as a trucker. How long were you one?

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    9. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by Single+GNU+Theory · · Score: 1

      Most trucks are moving towards having small "lawnmower" engines called APUs (axillary power units) that power the heat/AC system and provide electricity when the truck would normally be idling. I don't know how widespread it is, but in Knoxville, TN there is a company called IdleAire which provides a honkin' big umbilical hose that connects to a truck's window at truck stops. The hose carries power, data, and HVAC into the cab. It's got a touchscreen so you can watch movies on demand or surf the web, and RJ-45 jacks if you want to surf from your own laptop.

      Knoxville has perennial poor air quality, and this was developed to allow truckers to shut the big engines down when overnighting.

      --
      Little Debian: America's #1 Snack Distro!
    10. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by spauldo · · Score: 1

      IdleAire is pretty much everywhere at the big truckstops (TAs, Petros, maybe some Flying Js) these days. There's also the advantage that trucks aren't allowed to idle or run their APUs next to you, which keeps some people awake (can't do anything about reefer units though).

      There's also attendants on duty, which I imagine keeps the hookers and panhandlers away. I'm not sure on that one though - they're pretty persistant.

      It's a neat deal, and some companies will pay for it rather than have you idle your truck. I know Arrow has a deal with them where their drivers don't pay anything for it. Dunno who else does though.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
  8. fuel costs still not high enough priority by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Combat rising fuel costs? They aren't serious, yet. Otherwise, we'd be moving everything we could via railroad, not road. We'd see a lot more aerodynamics. It'd be so easy to make a few small aerodynamic changes to the trailers. That's seriously low hanging fruit, and it's been almost entirely ignored. As it is, while many of the tractors aren't too bad, the average truck trailer has all the aerodynamics of a brick. We'd also see lighter trailers with more aluminum and composite carbon fiber in them, more efficient engines, and better tires.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    1. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

      rail does not go all over the place and trucks are needed for delivering goods locally.

    2. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by QBasicer · · Score: 1

      Well, at least not anymore. A lot of places have had their rails taken up in the late 80s, early 90s in Canada. I personally think rail should be the choice for long hauls, and using trucks for local delivery. I've always preferred taking a train over taking a bus, however since they took up the tracks to my university town, I have no choice.

      --
      x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
    3. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by GeigerBC · · Score: 1

      Mod GP up. He's so correct with "Otherwise, we'd be moving everything we could via railroad, not road." You realize how many long-haul truckers there are in the States? More than is needed. Most of these could be moved to rail which is much more energy efficient. I agree that you would still need trucks for local and short deliveries, but so much of the industry is long haul or multi-state trucking. They have rail cars that you can just pick up the trailer off the rail car and hook it right up to the truck for the first few miles to the rail yard and the last few miles from the rail yard. At least that's my understanding of it.

    4. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There also isn't nearly enough capacity on the rails, A customer of mine is paying a 30% premium for road over rail because there aren't enough reefer cars. Even with the rail lines that were removed, you can still move more stuff at a time over the road.

    5. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

      True, but that doesnt change the fact that most of the goods around the country USED to be carried by rail, untill the automotive companies bought up the rail companies and began to ship everything with the trucks they built.

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    6. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Squalish · · Score: 1

      "You know how many long haul truckers there are in the States?"

      is a completely different statement from

      "You know how much long haul trucking there is in the States?"

      The addendum "Most of these could be moved to rail which is much more energy efficient" only applies to one.

      A 100 car freight train is far less labor intensive than 100 semis.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
    7. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by winwar · · Score: 1

      "True, but that doesnt change the fact that most of the goods around the country USED to be carried by rail, untill the automotive companies bought up the rail companies and began to ship everything with the trucks they built."

      Automotive companies didn't buy up rail carriers.

      We built this great transportation system (highways) that allowed people to live everywhere and get goods from anywhere. Railroads couldn't keep up. Trucks are more useful. It will take far greater prices and much time to change this.

      I suspect that most goods used to be created and used locally. Which worked great when we were mostly farmers.

    8. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Squalish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's because since WW2, we've spent a hundred billion dollars a year constructing, expanding, and maintaining the roads, and ten million dollars a year tearing up rails so that people wouldn't trip over them.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
    9. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by winwar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Most of these could be moved to rail which is much more energy efficient."

      Companies care about cost and time. If it were cheaper and faster to ship via rail they would. It isn't, so they don't. Except for large bulky shipments.

      "I agree that you would still need trucks for local and short deliveries, but so much of the industry is long haul or multi-state trucking."

      And you would have the same amount of drivers. Except that you can pay the local ones less.... Trucks are far more convenient than rail lines. That's worth increased cost to many.

      "They have rail cars that you can just pick up the trailer off the rail car and hook it right up to the truck for the first few miles to the rail yard and the last few miles from the rail yard."

      Sure, if you don't want your cargo in a timely manner. I've worked in a warehouse-containers via rail are slow. It's quicker to ship cargo from LA to Seattle via truck.

      In the end, efficiency is only important to companies if it reduces cost.

    10. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by belmolis · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the interstate highway system is only cheaper than railroads for most goods because it is so heavily subsidized by the federal and state governments.

    11. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

      No, the highway system was also pushed by the auto makers and as a public works project and as an integral part of national defense. Link.

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    12. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by LoRdTAW · · Score: 5, Informative

      We'd see a lot more aerodynamics.

      Aero? Peterbilt 378, Kenworth T2000, International Prostar, Freightliner Century/Colombia/Cascadia, Mack Vision. And more are to follow.

      It'd be so easy to make a few small aerodynamic changes to the trailers. That's seriously low hanging fruit, and it's been almost entirely ignored.

      Aero Trailers are not always feasible in the eyes of the trucking industry for one simple reason: weight. Most tractors today have proper wind deflectors on top to allow to the air to deflect around the trailer reducing drag. Side skirts have been tried since the 70's but did not yield enough of an increase in fuel savings to warrant their cost or added weight.

      We'd also see lighter trailers with more aluminum and composite carbon fiber in them

      Trailers are already as light as possible and are full of composite materials and aluminum, you just haven't bothered to look. Aluminum is popular in flatbed trailers that can be upward of 100% aluminum and many trailers are of a mixed construction of both aluminum and steel. Aluminum frames used to be popular in trucks of the 70's. But after a few years of running on roads that are salted in the winter, everyone learned real fast that aluminum was a poor material for frames. Carbon fiber isn't a material your going to find on a truck as it has no desirable properties other then low weight.

      more efficient engines

      Diesel engines have for years been very efficient. The average today is about 6-6.5 MPG for tractor trailers. Older diesels that were mechanical could also yield similar numbers but were very dirty (but fun and simple to maintain and work on). EPA 2007 and the looming EPA 2010 has created a whole new school of diesel design and many companies are about to or are going to release some real seriously high tech engines. Compacted graphite iron, turbo compounding, ingenious heat management, acoustic tuning, over head cams and integrated engine brakes is whats in the mix. International's MaXXForce, Detroit Diesel's DD15, and Paccar's MX engine are some of the most technologically advanced engines out there. They are ready to be deployed soon here in the USA and will meet EPA 2010 emissions which will make gasoline engine look filthy.

      and better tires.

      Ever hear of super singles? They are wide base tires that replace the dual tires found on both drive and trailer axles. They have less friction than a set of dual tires and can bring about a noticeable and beneficial savings in fuel economy. They are also lighter which allows the truck to carry more fright which increases efficiency. Adoption has been pretty good but safety is a bit of a concern as with duals if one tire blows the other can support the weight of the axle so the truck can be safely stopped. Cost is also an issue and they aren't useful outside of LTL, long haul and bulk haul. Vocational work still demands dual tires for the high weights and abuse involved.

    13. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by sr180 · · Score: 1

      A major quality international electronics brand started shipping all their TV's and electronic equipment in Australia by rail for a small cost saving. However, their equipment failure rate jumped by over 300%. Rail is great for bulk materials, but not as good for the sensitive stuff.

      --
      In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
    14. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by cibyr · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Aluminum is popular in flatbed trailers that can be upward of 100% aluminum and many trailers are of a mixed construction of both aluminum and steel. Upward of 100% aluminum? I'm sure there are some chemists who'd love to heard about how they do that!

      --
      It's not exactly rocket surgery.
    15. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The cost part of the equation is skewed a bit ... trucks get to travel on taxpayer-funded roads, whereas the railroads have to build and maintain their own tracks.

      If that were evened out, rail would see a lot more use (which would in turn make it quicker ...)

    16. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for that post. As a B.Sc in Comp Sci, and now driving truck, you said everything I wanted to. No repeat necessary.

      BTW at 79,700Lbs I was getting 7.5mpg from Detroit to Georgia in a Volvo tractor (I ran maxed out loads for a 53ft dual axle box)

    17. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Computershack · · Score: 1

      Diesel engines have for years been very efficient. The average today is about 6-6.5 MPG for tractor trailers. OMG - is that all you're getting out of US trucks that aren't even pulling the same weight as the EU ones? That's disgusting. Running at 40 tonnes (88,000 lbs) I can average just short of 10MPG in the UK. Running at the maximum 44 tonnes (96,800lbs) I average high 8's to low 9's. I consider a very bad run to be 8MPG and even on the old trucks, the worst I ever had was 7.2MPG on a 10 year old rig. Hell, I even get 8.5MPG on a 16ft high double deck trailer.
      --
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    18. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aluminum is popular in flatbed trailers that can be upward of 100% aluminum and many trailers are of a mixed construction of both aluminum and steel. That sounds a little unlikely.
    19. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to thank everybody who's commented on this post; it seems that everybody has a lot to bring to the table on this subject!

    20. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by aembleton · · Score: 1

      A UK gallon is equal to 1.2 US gallons. So his 6-6.5 US MPG translates to 7.2-7.8 UK MPG, which is better but still falls short of what you get.

    21. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by aproposofwhat · · Score: 1

      US-ian gallons are smaller than ours :o)

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
    22. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by turing_m · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Probably the biggest bang for buck is driver education, training and incentives. Truck drivers are better than the average person, but they still are pathetic as far as driving to save fuel. The biggest things truck drivers can do to save fuel are:
      1. Slow down - go minimum legal speed on the highway. (This lowers air resistance, and the energy expended to combat air resistance is proportional to speed squared.
      2. Anticipate to avoid braking at all costs.

      The amount of energy wasted in stopping a truck is phenomenal. And I see avoidable stops all the time when I am driving. Worst is when there is a red light at the bottom of a hill, and the truck is accelerating towards it. If the truck driver were to bide his time, hopefully the light will have changed to green by the time he gets there, if not, he at least hasn't wasted energy in accelerating only to have to brake. If you see stopped cars up ahead lay off the gas! If the light has been green far ahead and you can see it - lay off the gas, it's going to turn red.

      We have to realize that the biggest, most efficient batteries on the roads are the hills (gravitational potential energy). Every time you get to the top of a hill, you have charged up that battery. If you don't have to brake at the bottom or on the way down the hill, you have successfully used that stored energy. If you have to brake, you have wasted that energy. If you accelerated on the way down, or started with too much speed at the crest, you have just wasted even more energy.

      It would be dead simple to track fuel volume/distance per driver. At the end of the month, rank the drivers. Pay a bonus on a sliding scale for saving more fuel, give the best trucker a small prize, and also require the rest of the drivers under a certain rank to drive with the best drivers for training.

      Once you get your truck drivers to have a clue and paid accordingly, you will also get more buy-in when it comes to things like aerodynamic improvements that involve some work from the driver.

      But really, this is only a stop-gap measure to trains, localized production for everything bar high $/kg items, reduced consumption, etc.

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    23. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      flatbed trailers that can be upward of 100% aluminum

      Like 110% aluminum? Neat trick.

    24. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Kijori · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Aluminum is popular in flatbed trailers that can be upward of 100% aluminum That's a lot of aluminium.

      Now I need to get back to work, I've been spending over 100% of my time on Slashdot.
    25. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      Side skirts have been tried since the 70's but did not yield enough of an increase in fuel savings to warrant their cost or added weight. I have been traveling by car quite a bit lately, and just the other day, I noticed some rigs were using side skirts.
      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    26. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by GregPK · · Score: 1

      Small problem with your theory on gas consumption. Truckers are more often than not paid based on getting the cargo to a destination at a specific time. Walmart makes you set an appointment 48 hours in advance and you have to be there +- 20 minutes. It's all automated, if you miss your window you have to wait another 48 hours to get into the DC.

      It's really a horrible system. I'll bet money if a DOT officer stood at the gates of a Walmart DC he would find 30 percent of drivers are at the limit or worse.

      Trucking companies in general, hate Walmart with a passion. You only take on Walmart contracts if you really have no choice due to a less than stellar record or something. Truckers have no care about their Walmart cargo either. Thus, part of the reason most Walmart products fall apart in a spectacular fashion.

    27. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      Oh christ. I should have realised this is Slash Dot. I have to spell everything out so it isn't taken literally.

      Ok By 100% aluminum I mean that the trailers frame, cross members and decking are all aluminum alloy. The axles, king pin and kingpin skid plate are the only steel parts on the trailer. There happy now? They are called all aluminum trailers or 100% aluminum construction in the industry.

    28. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by turing_m · · Score: 1

      Small problem with your theory on gas consumption. Truckers are more often than not paid based on getting the cargo to a destination at a specific time.
      That's true at $3/gallon. I'm not sure whether Walmart will have the same policy at $10 or $20/gallon. All business models rely on assumptions and when those assumptions change, superior business models will emerge.
      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
  9. This isn't new by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most of this stuff has been on trucks for ten years. Eaton's VORAD anti-collision radar goes back further than that. But now, everybody with more than one rig has some kind of tracking system.

    1. Re:This isn't new by RLmitchell · · Score: 1

      Yes, many of the technologies have been around for years. The problem, fleet owners told me when writing this story, is that up until recently they haven't gotten much traction with fleets. For some technologies, design improvements and lower costs have made the difference. In other cases rising fuel prices have drawn increased attention by fleet owners. --Robert L. Mitchell

  10. Anti-collision by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    Warning: You are about to experience a collision. Now applying automated force feedback controls and intelligent brake assistance on a large vehicle hauling an unpredictable, possibly liquid or poorly secured load to avoid detected hazard.

    Problem?

    1. Re:Anti-collision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Maybe. As big a problem as the driver doing it himself? Maybe, maybe not. What about if you have half a brain when you're engineering this thing and figure out some ways to mitigate it?

      It needn't even be integrated into braking/steering/etc. For anti-collision, I'd imagine that knowing is half the battle.

    2. Re:Anti-collision by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Warning: You are about to experience a collision. Now applying automated force feedback controls and intelligent brake assistance on a large vehicle hauling an unpredictable, possibly liquid or poorly secured load to avoid detected hazard.

      Problem?

      "Bridge out" error. (R)etry, (A)bort, (I)gnore?

      Thanks but I'd rather have my shipments delivered by rickshaw.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    3. Re:Anti-collision by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      The driver has more information about the world around the truck than the truck; the truck has more information about itself than the driver. For example it only knows things like road and tire conditions based on the anti-lock brake sensors detecting one wheel starting to spin slower than the rest (must be slipping), while the driver knows he has damn good tires but he's on bad road and can feel the truck vibrating before it loses traction (at which point he's starting to back off the brakes, but then there's a little slip and ABS kicks in).

      There's more to it now, the truck has radar and sonics and all kinds of shit, but it still can't see or make intuition-based decisions. The truck also has no driver experience; it's the best we could come up with at the time. It won't get smarter.

  11. What will the future bring? by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe some day, hundreds of truckloads of shipments will be piloted by one (maybe two) people. Who knows, maybe there will be just one engine for a hundred containers, and it will be smart enough to generate energy very efficiently, regulate it's own speed, and react to hazards. Maybe they will even make special thoroughfares criss-crossing the nation, on which these super-movers of the future will ride on... The future is bright indeed! I just have one question: what might we call them?

    1. Re:What will the future bring? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      Trains are, indeed, great for great big bulk things (notice how you sometimes see freight trains carrying coal and gravel and timber and such), but for actually delivering things the last mile (or the first) it's a lot trickier. Being able to go over surface roads buys you a lot of flexibility, too - routing, pickup dates and times, things like that.

      But it's not as if rail isn't already in the middle of a comeback and spending a billion dollars a year or so on new infrastructure. (Freight, that is, of course; people-rail is not so fortunate).

      --
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    2. Re:What will the future bring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you live in the Northern Territory of Australia they call that a B6 ( a Prime mover with 6 trailers ) and they don't need special tracks , they just use normal roads, just keep out of their way (they do take some distance to come to a stop).

    3. Re:What will the future bring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A train isn't going to dock at your distribution warehouse or make deliveries to all your branches.

      trucks are still and will always be needed.

    4. Re:What will the future bring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, I don't know... what about "road trains"?

    5. Re:What will the future bring? by Jellybob · · Score: 1

      That sounds terrifying. I'm sure they're not actually so bad, but I'd hate to have to overtake one of those things.

    6. Re:What will the future bring? by barzok · · Score: 1

      It depends upon how big an operation you are.

      The chemical plant I worked in during college had rail spurs right into some of the buildings. The factory around the corner from my house has its own spur as well.

    7. Re:What will the future bring? by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      Agree that trucks will always be around but rail is still vastly under utilised. There's no reason why the railway can't go to your distribution warehouse and in many cases ( in the UK ) this does happen.

    8. Re:What will the future bring? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      And.. they're not even all that great for bulk things. If there is *any* water nearby, it's usually orders of magnitude more efficient to ship goods.. by ship.

      Rail: Almost all the limitations of cargo ships (you *can* build new rail lines to places without navigable waters), and also many of the limitations of trucking: frequent starts and stops, must be carefully coordinated all along the rigid routes, summer heat makes for a bumpy ride....

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  12. I don't understand. by freenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How can locally produced goods compete with the shipped in versions? Raw materials have to be shipped in, even in agriculture where fertilizer and fuel are real costs. My impression was that goods from China were inexpensive because they had a large supply of very cheap and poorly treated labor. Just about everyone now uses material from there if they bother making anything. What is left of US and Western manufacturing? If you know so much about Ag shipping, can you tell me why so much cheap food at the grocery store now comes from China?

    What competition do you see in the oil market after the merger of Exxon and Mobil? They closed half of their stations, major refineries and fired plenty of people so they could tighten up the market. Their "Project for the New American Century" has been a disaster for the rest of us and may even bite them in the ass when the US economy collapses under the cost of the Iraq war failure, Iran refusing to sell oil in dollars and persistent problems in Afghanistan. Sooner or later our weakened prestige and currency will ruin their string of "best year ever" profits.

    I don't have a fancy degree in Economics nor do I trade commodities but the ruin of the US economy is easy to see. Excuse me while I drive my H2 to pick up another load of Chinese stuff at Walmart.

    1. Re:I don't understand. by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Well, shipping wood is much cheaper than shipping finished furniture, and slightly cheaper than shipping paper. Shipping flour and sugar is much cheaper than shipping the resulting cake (and time isn't critical either).

      This doesn't apply to everything of course, and there are many industries where other factors are more important (labour cost, power supply, weather, regulations, ...).

  13. Trucking technology is extremely sophisticated by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The summary underestimates the technology development in the trucking industry. Since at least the early 70's oil crisis, no effort has been spared to wheedle out ever last cent per lb-mile. The engine controls are exceptionally sophisticated and the scheduling/routing software is similarly complex. This is not a bunch of stereotypical yokels. Most people here would go broke if they tried to do it.

            While we are at it, a lot of people might be surprised how sophisticated trains and train operations are - modern locomotives were the prototypes of Prius' and othe hybrids, complete with regenerative braking.

              Brett

    1. Re:Trucking technology is extremely sophisticated by Computershack · · Score: 1

      The summary underestimates the technology development in the trucking industry. Since at least the early 70's oil crisis, no effort has been spared to wheedle out ever last cent per lb-mile. If that's the case, why are US trucks still 25-40% per lb-mile WORSE than the EU despite having more MPG friendly terrain?

      --
      I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
    2. Re:Trucking technology is extremely sophisticated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While we are at it, a lot of people might be surprised how sophisticated trains and train operations are - modern locomotives were the prototypes of Prius' and othe hybrids, complete with regenerative braking.

      You mean they have huge batteries? If not, how do they store the energy from regenerative braking? I think this energy is wasted as heat, not stored.

    3. Re:Trucking technology is extremely sophisticated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most locos dont have regenerative braking, thats a very new, pilot technology on a test platform.

      Locos use dynamic braking, which feeds power generated from braking over a large bank of resistors to give the motor load.

    4. Re:Trucking technology is extremely sophisticated by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      It's regenerative braking, not dynamic breaking. If you are feeding back the power from braking, the diesel generator load is greatly reduced and the throttle setting is greatly reduced, saving fuel. Excess returned power is shunted into resistors and shed as heat. Full hybrid locomotives are nearing operation, see http://ge.ecomagination.com/site/products/hybr.html

            Brett

  14. Emmisions. by westbake · · Score: 1

    I wish they would clean up their emissions. Too bad there's no financial incentive or laws to force that.

    --
    I am a name troll of Westlake. Visit my homepage to learn why.
    1. Re:Emmisions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have any idea what you are talking about.
      The transportation is very regulated emission wise.
      The diesel fuel now has less particulate count than gas does. And No, I will not give any cites. Do some fucking research for yourself. Most fines for bad exhaust runs in the 10's of thousands.

    2. Re:Emmisions. by LoRdTAW · · Score: 4, Informative

      They have been emissions laws in place for Diesel engines for a long time already. The EPA 2007 emissions were a huge step forward from the EPA 2002 emissions in using a diesel particulate filter DPF to filter out the soot and aggressive exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to reduce NOx emissions.

      My beef with the EPA and the government is how they handled the enforcement of the 2007 emissions law. In Europe they have the Euro emissions standard for diesel engines and they are currently at Euro 5. But that does not mean that truck makers must only offer Euro 5 engines to its customers. See the EU was smart and rather then force everyone to switch they said you can still buy Euro 4 and 3 engines but you pay higher registration fees and I believe even higher road usage taxes (can anyone clarify?) for the Euro 3 and 4 engines.

      In the USA the EPA forced all the engine makers and truck makers to only offer 2007 emissions rated engines in all trucks made after October 2007. Now the 2007 rated engines add another six to eight thousand dollars to a truck so guess what happened? Thats right, in 2006 trucking companies scrambled to purchase pre-2007 trucks not only because they were cheaper but the reliability of 2007 engines was unknown and untrusted. So now you have plenty of 2006 sales but sales were dead in 2007 threatening truck makers here in the states. If the EPA did what the EU did they would have eased the pain in transitioning and we would have more cleaner trucks on the road.

      Now just wait till EPA 2010 when we will most likely combine the 2007 DPF and EGR systems with a selective catalytic reduction (SCR) system. Also Europe will combine a DPF system with their Euro 5 SCR/EGR system for Euro 6 emissions. At that point diesel engines will be cleaner than gasoline engines.

    3. Re:Emmisions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yes, there is: we finally got ULSD here in the states in late 2006 (in most places). It's significantly lower (500ppm vs 15ppm) in sulfur, which is a good thing by itself, but also allows newer diesel engines to have more advanced emission-control systems.

      Diesels are *much* cleaner now than they were 10 or 20 years ago, thanks in part to the EPA, and it's only going to improve.

    4. Re:Emmisions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi twitter! Karma whoring the last of your sockpuppets that's not posting at -1? Good luck!

    5. Re:Emmisions. by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      In the USA the EPA forced all the engine makers and truck makers to only offer 2007 emissions rated engines in all trucks made after October 2007. Now the 2007 rated engines add another six to eight thousand dollars to a truck so guess what happened? Thats right, in 2006 trucking companies scrambled to purchase pre-2007 trucks not only because they were cheaper but the reliability of 2007 engines was unknown and untrusted. So now you have plenty of 2006 sales but sales were dead in 2007 threatening truck makers here in the states. If the EPA did what the EU did they would have eased the pain in transitioning and we would have more cleaner trucks on the road.

      Sounds to some extent like a replay of the transition to unleaded gasoline. In 1975, manufacturers were required to start installing catalytic converters; cars so equipped can only run on unleaded as lead-based anti-knock compounds inhibit the operation of the catalyst. This created a seller's market for unleaded gasoline, which throughout the second half of the '70s and into the '80s a bit was almost always of lower quality and higher price. (Remember how, in addition to the "cop motor" and "cop shocks," one of the Bluesmobile's features was that it'd run on regular (leaded) fuel?) The auto industry and the oil companies eventually wrapped their heads around the performance characteristics of unleaded and started shipping products that worked well together, but the first few years were painful.

      Contrast that with how the Europeans managed the transition. AFAIK, nothing was mandated until (maybe) fairly recently. When I moved to Germany in 1986, unleaded was just beginning to show up at gas stations. It tended to be a bit cheaper than leaded fuel, so there was an economic incentive for you to buy it if your car ran well enough on it. Over time, more and more cars on the road were capable of running on unleaded. At some point (late '80s or early '90s), they started installing catalytic converters. I think they're now selling only unleaded fuel, just as we've been doing since the mid-to-late '80s, but their path to getting there has been less painful than ours.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    6. Re:Emmisions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work in the Breakdown department of a trucking company with over 1000 tractors and 2500 trailers. Satellite technology tracks our trucks and trailers to the point that if we need to recover one, I can grab latitude and longitude last reported and find the street the truck is on Google maps. That's the technology that works...

      The part that doesn't work makes me itching to get back in the cab and run over every enviromentalist nutcase out there. These new 2008 Big Yellow Engines are the most unreliable trucks in our fleet. The average fleet mileage is 5.6 miles to the gallon, but it's closer to between 3 and 5 with these new emission control engines. So, we burn way more fuel in them because of all the emissions crap added, and marvel at how technology has 'improved" to the point where modern diesel technology involves the use of a spark plug. Yes, it's true. There is a container that collects the unburned or partially burned particulates and dumps about half a gallon at a time of raw diesel into this afterburner, utilizing the sparkplug to ignite this to burn at 1300 degrees for 50 minutes, and our truck can't move anywhere. Nor do we get any freight moved for this fuel that burns. It's killing our company and the only way we are able to survive is to hold off buying any new tractors until some other big companies do, so that the level of suffering levels the field, in terms of fuel mileage. Everything we can do is either being done or has been done, not only by us, but by other trucking companies, and these these new engines are killing us. Some of these trucks have spent 3 days out of 15 on the road, and the other 12 in the shop. It's not just one, it's the whole 100 of them like that.

      Technology can be a good thing, but wait until your food prices double because of the environmental factors of technology that cause mileage to be reduced by a third and causes trucks to breakdown more than they operate properly. That's where we're headed, if these first 100 trucks and last ten months are any indication.

  15. Reducing Oil Costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    High tech isn't just digital. Plenty of other folks out there are finding ways to save on overall oil usage. Filters that can extend the time between oil changes can save thousands for long haul, and extended operation vehicles.

    http://www.ctifilters.com/

  16. Can all this tech by hansoloaf · · Score: 0

    Can all this tech stuff prevent truckers from swinging in front of me in the left lane when there's no one behind me for miles?
    And then they would proceed to take forever to pass the slower vehicle and move back in the right lane so I can finally move on.

    1. Re:Can all this tech by Computershack · · Score: 0

      Obviously you're stupid and drive with your eyes closed. If one truck is catching up on another, what's the most likely thing it's going to do? Oh, let me think all of a nanosecond. Yes, that's right..overtake it.

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  17. hmm another no sh#t sherlock moment by TheDreadedGMan · · Score: 0, Troll

    Trucks high-tech??? who would have thought??? WOW I would never have thought!!

  18. Rig emmissions are very low by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Informative
    if you measure them on a per pound of cargo basis. Way, way better than any car carrying a few pounds of cargo.

    If you look at the emissions associated with the delivery of a new TV, most of it is in the last leg from the store to the buyer's home. Trucking 500 TVs across the state using a big rig produces less emissions per TV than that last ride home.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by amRadioHed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And yet the emissions are still way, way worse than they would be for transport by rail.

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    2. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by epseps · · Score: 2, Informative

      Rails are great but they cover a limited area. Some trucking companies integrate rails and road pretty well with trailers just being transported by rail and then picked up by cab at the most convenient location.

      But that requires very precise dispatching and monitoring, so only the biggest companies with the best inventory systems can handle. Hopefully with technology getting cheaper more companies will do this and more geeks will get jobs in the freight industry running those systems.

    3. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by Geezle2 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yep, emissions are much lower for rail even if you are only using diesel power units. If you develop your infrastructure to the point where you can use electric locomotives or EMUs, your emissions drop by another order of magnitude and your emissions end up coming from a single, non-mobile, more easily managed location (the electric power generating station).

      Trucks can only compete with rail for long haul freight services in the US because much of the nation's rail infrastructure was ripped up over the last hundred years. Now that the heady days of cheap gas and diesel are gone for good, America is faced with rebuilding this strategically critical infrastructure from scratch. So much for letting the Free Market prepare you for the future.

    4. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by swillden · · Score: 1

      Now that the heady days of cheap gas and diesel are gone for good, America is faced with rebuilding this strategically critical infrastructure from scratch. So much for letting the Free Market prepare you for the future.

      This isn't a failure of the free market, because it wasn't a free market. The truckers were subsidized; the railroads were not.

      What killed the railroads was the interstates -- the largest public works project in the world. While railroads were built and maintained solely by their users, the taxpayer built a huge transportation network for use by truckers, and built it strong enough to support the weight of big rigs. It was built that way to facilitate the movement of road-based nuclear weapons and other military assets during the Cold War, which has never really mattered, but the result was perfect for the trucking industry.

      Without the interstates, truck transport would be slower and more expensive, even if states didn't notice that the heavy trucks do nearly all of the non-weather highway damage that requires road maintenance. If they did notice that, and realize that they need to build the roadways three times as thick in order to withstand the pounding, and passed the resulting cost increases on to the truckers, truck transport would be MUCH more expensive than rail. It would still exist, because it occupies a natural middle ground between slow and massive train cargo, and fast and light air cargo, but its niche would be much smaller.

      And, of course, if the trucking industry were required to build and maintain all of its own roads, like the railroads do, it simply wouldn't exist.

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    5. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by stubob · · Score: 1

      I disagree. What killed the railroad was the suburb. Even today, to get to the nearest light rail line in Denver (shared public transportation line along commercial freight line), I have to drive five miles. Then I can take the train downtown for $3 one way. Or, I can keep driving the 10 miles to downtown and pay for parking. If I'm taking my wife along (which I usually am), anything cheaper than $10 for parking is saving money and time.

      What's more, now that I've committed almost an hour to drive to train station, I'm more inclined to keep driving rather than waiting to catch an intercity train (Amtrak) somewhere.

      The problem is the same in the opposite direction. Even if goods are shipped by rail, they won't get that close to their final destination. So they have to be trucked. If the trip distance isn't that far, there's more incentive to just truck it the whole way and avoid an extra transfer from rail to truck.

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    6. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "And yet the emissions are still way, way worse than they would be for transport by rail."

      I don't have a rail spur near my house. Shipping via rail really means unload and break bulk before truck delivery elsewhere.

      --
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    7. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by swillden · · Score: 1

      I disagree. What killed the railroad was the suburb.

      Well, arguably, what created the suburb was the Interstate Highway.

      The factors are interrelated, certainly.

      Even if goods are shipped by rail, they won't get that close to their final destination. So they have to be trucked. If the trip distance isn't that far, there's more incentive to just truck it the whole way and avoid an extra transfer from rail to truck.

      Not with "piggybacks". They're the large cargo containers that are stacked on rail cars and container ships, and fit onto a wheeled frame for trucking. The transfer is very quick and easy.

      But for most cargo the price difference between a mixture of rail and truck and pure truck isn't that large -- and that's because the roads are subsidized.

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    8. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by llefler · · Score: 1

      The truckers were subsidized; the railroads were not.

      The railroads weren't subsidized? You couldn't be further from the truth if you're discussing US railroads. In the 1800s the railroads were give huge land grants. Millions of acres were granted to the railroads that they used both to build their routes and to sell to raise capital.

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
    9. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by llefler · · Score: 1

      Not with "piggybacks". They're the large cargo containers that are stacked on rail cars and container ships, and fit onto a wheeled frame for trucking.

      Actually, the origin of "piggyback" is putting a full, normal semi trailer on a train. The complete trailer is lifted or driven on/off of the rail car.

      What you are describing is simply the cargo containers that were built for sea transport. With the rail container cars and truck container chassis, it allows them to go from China to your local Walmart without breaking the seal.

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
    10. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by swillden · · Score: 1

      That's true, but truckers are essentially given land already covered with nice roadways, which are assured to be available wherever people (and hence potential cargo destinations) were. The railroads have to build and maintain their own tracks, and they haven't gotten much free land in nearly a century. As populations grow in new locations today it's extremely difficult for railroads to get the land they need to build rail access. Truckers don't have to worry about any of that, because the roads are ALWAYS just there, paid for by the taxpayers.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    11. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by swillden · · Score: 1

      Actually, the origin of "piggyback" is putting a full, normal semi trailer on a train. The complete trailer is lifted or driven on/off of the rail car.

      You're right. Got my terminology confused. Thanks for the correction.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  19. GPS by Repton · · Score: 2, Funny

    Will it stop directing them through tiny villages with roads too narrow to cope?

    --
    Repton.
    They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
  20. Truckers invented the Internet! by tomRakewell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Truckers may not be able to pronounce "Illinois" real well, but they did adopt CB Radios back in the 1970s. That was the closest thing to the Internet until... the Internet.

    In case your memory is short: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaammaHevT0

  21. This really isn't that new... by jcwren · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back in '91, IBM won a contract from J.B. Hunt to develop a satellite based system for trucks. It used a Qualcomm satellite system, a 486SX based tablet computer (I designed the keyboard controller, power management processor and did a lot of the BIOS work on it), and a docking station.

    The tablet ran a program designed by a sub-contractor that allowed the trucker to do things like checklists, fuel management, figure his trip earnings, report emergencies, etc.

    One of J.B. Hunts driving (heh) reasons was that after a driver delivered his load, he might spend 30 minutes thumbing the same quarter into a payphone trying to call the dispatcher. With this system, he could send a communique that he was done, and the system would turn around with new orders in less than 2 minutes.

    One of the other neat things was the Qualcomm dish could do triangulation that was accurate to a few hundred yards. At least twice I know of, rigs were stolen and recovered because of the satellite tracking.

    Now the little antenna packages are ubiquitous on trucks. Look behind the air dam on the roof, or the back of the cab, and you'll see a white dome that's about 12" in diameter, and 10" tall. Odds are that's a Qualcomm satellite link.

    The tablet system was pretty neat, too. It was an extremely dense PCB at the time, 16 layers. It supported the original Sundisk (before they became Sandisk) 2.5MB flash drives, touch screen, used Peltier devices to allow operation in extreme temperatures, had RS-232, RS-422, infrared, keyboard & mouse port, expansion connectors, LCD controller, all that stuff, in an aluminum frame with this heavy duty rubber covering over it.

    The holster interfaced to the trucks wiring harness and could pick off speed (we were pre-GPS), RPM, voltage, stuff like that. Our group didn't handle the holster, so I only know vague details about it, but I do know that while they were considered some of the vehicle data busses for the future, they interfaced the old-fashioned way.

    Most of the drivers were moderately receptive to the system, since it sped up their turn-around time, which meant more money. However, since it could tattle on exceeding maximum allowed drive time, over-revving, and of course speeding, there were some drivers that had real problems with it.

    Incidentally, at that point in time, J.B. Hunt was a VERY large customer of IBM main frames. For the previous 7 years, they upgraded every year to IBMs newest mainframe offerings. Their big data center was somewhere in the Mid-west, I believe. With their route planning, logistics management, service records system, dispatch system and everything else, they burned a lot of CPU cycles.

    Somewhere in my basement, I have one of the docking holsters and the tablet computer, and as of about a year ago, it powered up and booted into DOS.

    J.B. Hunt and IBM learned an important lesson from this, too: Don't let the driver be able to see the tablet. Before they started positioning them where the driver couldn't read it while in motion, at least one accident occurred because of fixation.

    While new technologies have brought more to the table, what the system offered 17 years ago isn't all that drastically different. Satellite is still the best choice, since cell phone coverage is not 100% pervasive.

    The project name was Road Rider. Naturally, we called it Road Kill internally :)

    1. Re:This really isn't that new... by jrumney · · Score: 1

      J.B. Hunt and IBM learned an important lesson from this, too: Don't let the driver be able to see the tablet. Before they started positioning them where the driver couldn't read it while in motion, at least one accident occurred because of fixation.

      This is the same reason Volkswagens and Audis have the OBD-II connector positioned so it is accessible from the back seat, and not under the dash, where most cars position it. US regulations don't help though, as they require it to be within three feet of the driver.

    2. Re:This really isn't that new... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      J.B. Hunt is based in Lowell, Arkansas... just a few minutes down the road from Walmart HomeOffice.

  22. Train by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    A train? Welcome to the 19th century. James Watt will be proud.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Train by bjackson1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      A train? Welcome to the 19th century. James Watt will be proud. Wooosh!
    2. Re:Train by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOOOSSSHHHH!

    3. Re:Train by aproposofwhat · · Score: 1
      James Watt probably wouldn't be interested - his main area of work was in stationary engines for industry.

      Robert Trevithick or George Stephenson might be relevant.~

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
  23. Freight prices have not gone up in years by tomRakewell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been getting full semis delivered to me from Ohio to Minnesota for exactly $1050. This price has not changed in the past 4 years.

    Just the other day, I had a competing trucking company come in and quote out the job. Their quote was... $1050.

    The price of diesel fuel has quadrupled in this time.

    I can not believe that technology is making the difference here. I think truckers are getting screwed.

    I know there were some threats of a trucking strike a month or two ago that came to nothing. I would not be surprised to see this happen, and if it did, the country would be brought to its knees.

    1. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by timmarhy · · Score: 1
      fuel isn't the big cost in freight though, even though the transport industry makes a big deal out of it.

      registrations and regulation costs + wages is the big ticket items. all things considered fuel is still very cheap when you look at just how much work it does.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by Zerth · · Score: 1

      I can not believe that technology is making the difference here. I think truckers are getting screwed.


      Or you were getting screwed 4 years ago.

    3. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by fatboyslack · · Score: 1

      I can not believe that technology is making the difference here. I think truckers are getting screwed. It's the same in Australia, initially a lot of companies had contracts with oil companies etc but those are being renegotiated and the smaller companies are really struggling to make ends meet. Nearly all profit has been cut out.
      --
      Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -- Leo Tolstoy
    4. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see. Ohio to Minnesota? Say that's 900 miles and 15ish hours of driving. Median freight trucker wage is, oh, $15ish, so only about $240 of that was going to pay the driver to begin with. The other 80% of the money is "not driver" expenses. It doesn't cry out as the place you'd apply the squeeze, as the guy you're paying 20% is what a lot of your success hinges on.

      Also, truckers have an ungodly union.

    5. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by spauldo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fuel is the largest expense in trucking. Wages is #2, and tires are #3. After that, I don't know for sure, but my guess would be maintenance and truck purchases.

      Wages used to be the #1 expense. Diesel also used to be $1.30 a gallon three or four years ago.

      The grandparent poster is right - it's all a bidding game, and if you try to raise your rates, someone else will do it cheaper. Rates will increase, but probably not until a lot of the little guys are out of business. I know my company is struggling.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    6. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      That's competition for you. Look at the airlines, the price of fuel increased but the airlines didn't raise their prices because they were afraid their competitors would steal all of their business. A short time later, the less efficient airlines started going out of business. It's a prime example of survival of the fittest. In the trucking industry, being the fittest likely means investing in the technology mentioned in TFA.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    7. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why so many owner-operators and small companies are going out of business now. Its cheaper for them to just park their trucks than to run freight that cheap.

      The problem with a trucker strike is they can't get organized. The OO union (OOIDA) wont support a strike and the company drivers are afraid of losing their jobs.

  24. But does it have... by Megane · · Score: 1
    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  25. Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's because rail travel is the most energy-efficient we have, with respect to transporting massive amounts of materials across land. Such a comeback would require double-tracks between all pairs of destinations. And regular reliable schedules, heh.

    1. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      If rail is so efficient, how come the price is the same for a rail trip from Boston to DC as it is for a commuter flight for the same trip?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    2. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Tanktalus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Transporting 250lbs of flesh and 50lbs of luggage doesn't really show a train's ability to pull cargo cheaply since that 300lbs of cargo needs to be in a multi-ton box car with many niceties (food, water, sleeping area, toilet, possibly shower).

      Try comparing costs of carrying 100s of tons of cargo (such as grain, oil, furniture, vehicles) where the overhead of the train is a smaller percentage.

      Try even comparing the cost to the environment: both the air (burned fuel) and, for comparing with "Big Rigs" (to stay loosely on topic) the damage caused to the roadways (vs damage caused to railways) for the same load.

      I've been hoping for more railways for years...

    3. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by houghi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with trains is time to deliver. This is often much longer then when you do it by road. At least in Europe.
      You have both the loading and unloading still to do.

      Also trains are very interesting when you have a large load going from place A to place B. However many times you only have one or a few containers going from place A to place B. So you wll need to wait till others are going from A to B as well, because the traibn is not going to drive just for you.

      As you still need road transport from office till A and from B till the other place, the time you loose in having to be there, waiting till the whole train is loaded, waiting till the train is unloaded, waiting some more for papers, is probable too great and the road is still cheaper.

      I have seen times of a week, where via the raod is would be one day.

      We always say time is money and a week is thus a lot of money.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    4. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Fumus · · Score: 1

      Because few people like to travel by train and thus the price is higher? (In order for the companies to make a profit)

    5. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by notgm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      i was under the impression that the real problem in the u.s. is that there are laws making it difficult/impossible for railroad companies to own semi-trucks, put into place to help a fledgling trucking industry at some point, and never rescinded.

      i've been searching for something to back up this theory - i heard it several years ago, but cannot find anything concrete.

    6. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You need to learn to ballance. Why do people think that there will be one silver bullet that will fix everything.
      They do use the rail system. Don't you see trains with rows and rows of Semi-trailers on the back? Then they take them and put them on trucks to go to their particular location.

      How ever sometimes people need it there faster then the trains can handle (Being trains are only effecent in delivering bulk products) dilivering small amounts like one tractor full would be much cheaper and quicker and efficent by using a truck vs. Loading it on a train waiting for the train to load and have it roll 50 miles to the next stop to be unloaded, then hoping at that spot there will be something to replace the empty spots.

      If you take any major highways chances are you will see a semi-truck with 2 trailers hooked up. then they break them off to smaller ones when they get into the city areas.

      Trains and Freighters are only part of the equasion. Some companies even go smaller then the trucks after they empty the truck they load up vans or smaller trucks to deliver it to each location.

      The Railroads never left. Commuter Rails are dieing not comerical.

      As well we have a polital problem with rails is that noone wants them in their back yard or comunity if they are already there they sertonly dont want them expanded so there is more noise.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    7. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Black-Man · · Score: 1

      >The Railroads never left. Commuter Rails are dieing not comerical.

      Commuter rails are booming. Ridership is up across the board. $4 a gallon gas will do that. What is "comerical"? Wow.

      >As well we have a polital problem with rails is that noone wants them in their back yard >or comunity if they are already there they sertonly dont want them expanded so there is >more noise.

      Noise from rail versus highway?!? I have heard/seen the new aluminum cars? They are so quiet you can only hear the sound of the engine passing. And passenger trains are very quiet.

    8. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by TRS80NT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The full-load scenario is also a factor in trucking though.
      A few years ago I moved from Calif. to Wisc. After my stuff was loaded onto the van (about a fourth of the space) the driver said "See you in a week." I wondered why. I was planning on driving the same distance in a couple days. When he said "...maybe more" I asked why. "I can't afford to make the trip without a full load". So as I was hitting the road he was holed up with his cell phone, waiting to hear from the moving company for another east-bound load.


      --
      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.
    9. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by The+Snowman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I live a few miles from the Ford and Chevy plants here in Cleveland. They both have multiple tracks going directly into each factory, pumping out fully loaded trains full of parts, probably driving off to other plants for assembly or further production. I would hazard a guess that they have no problem with scheduling the logistics, and I bet it is far cheaper and more efficient than trucking it out there.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    10. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Railroads never left.

      The rails DID leave, because funding for rails was cut in favor of spending it on the federal highway system as a system of corporate welfare designed to benefit the auto companies. Don't let history get in the way of a good argument, though.

      Obviously we still have rail, for purposes that cannot reasonably be served by truck, like feeding major concrete plants raw material or, ironically, getting materials into and cars out of automobile manufacturing plants. Oh, the humanity.

      As well we have a polital problem with rails is that noone wants them in their back yard or comunity

      And you have a spelling problem. Do yourself a favor and switch to Firefox.

      PRECISELY the same problem exists with freeways.

      The simple truth is that rail can be efficient. If we hadn't dismantled the rail network to the extent that we did - which is to say, we made it less profitable in a number of situations by eliminating subsidies, while spending horrific amounts of money on the interstate highway system. On top of that, the increased truck traffic means that small roads never designed to carry trucks have tons of freight on them (literally) and break down faster. You can especially see this happen in hilly/mountainous states, like California.

      Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. How many times do you typically turn around to check if you turned the oven off?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by tha_mink · · Score: 1

      You need to learn to ballance Really? Why would Ballance help anyone? I think you need to learn spelling...perhaps you meant balance.

      How ever You mean however?

      dilivering Really?

      dieing Um....

      noone I give up
      --
      You'll have that sometimes...
    12. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      Really I don't think any of this is really truthful. When you ship freight by train you usually don't worry about the logistics. The freight company picks up the stuff, brings it to the train yard, figures out how to pack it, drives the train the the nearest station near the destination and then drops off the load at the destination by truck. You don't have to think about anything and it's WAY cheaper. The times when you want to ship freight by train include anytime the distance is long (like more then a few hundred miles) and there is a hub nearby (which is almost always). Trucking ONLY makes sense for short distances of less then a few hundred miles. If this model was adopted by Government then thousands of trucks would be off the roads and freeways in California INSTANTLY making almost all traffic problems disappear.

    13. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? You could make up all the excuses in the world... and in the end... it doesn't have to be that way.

    14. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by rossifer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      However many times you only have one or a few containers going from place A to place B. So you wll need to wait till others are going from A to B as well, because the traibn is not going to drive just for you.
      I used to work at a lumberyard in Dayton, Ohio that had a rail spur for deliveries of building supplies. The train did stop just for them. It would stop, cut out the two or three cars for them, then continue on. They paid for the spur to be installed, leased some rail equipment (a yard dog to maneuver the cars around) and also paid fees for the cars that were idle on the spur.

      It was a money-making investment for them. It was also at least as fast as getting the supplies via truck. They used the same forklifts to move the supplies on and off the rail cars as they did for the trucks.

      The problem with rail is that trucking is heavily subsidized by the interstate highway. Trucking companies get much more value from the highways than they pay in taxes and fees. So much more value that the railways, which have to maintain their own "roads", can only compete on the largest, bulkiest cargoes.
    15. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by bluie- · · Score: 1

      I bet if we made a serious investment in rail transit it could be an excellent way to get goods around the country. With maglev technologies we could probably move stuff faster and cheaper.

      With the right incentives maybe we could come up with a way to replace local delivery trucks with electric versions, that way getting stuff from train stations to the final destination wouldn't involve expensive fuel.

      --
      life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think
    16. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One word - Ethertrain!

    17. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Calinous · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Rail transport was big in my country in the past - the big manufacturing companies had rail tracks inside their yards.
            However, lacking this, railway transport means road transport to the train station, load transfer to boxcars, railway transport (which might take a while, as passenger trains have priority over cargo), then load transfer to trucks at the destination, and finally transport to destination.

            As long as your transport can take a long way on the road, and you can send a train or at least several boxcars, using trains is a good idea. On long distances, trains might get faster than trucks (trains can go all day long, changing engineers, but truck drivers must sleep).

    18. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by prog-guru · · Score: 1

      I have heard/seen the new aluminum cars? They are so quiet you can only hear the sound of the engine passing. And passenger trains are very quiet. The horn is still loud, even if the car is made of aluminum.

      They should build more monorails.
      --

      chris@xanadu:~$ whatis /.
      /.: nothing appropriate.

    19. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      I've been wondering about why cargo rail hasn't made a comeback, too. The funny thing is, even in Germany, which has a great rail infrastructure, you are seeing more and more trucks on the road.

      Apparently, the railroads couldn't handle the extra load and they are too bureaucratic to adapt to the higher demand. My hope is that the US is a little more adaptive. The savings in energy and environment would be huge and getting the trucks off the highway would improve the roads.

    20. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      True, there is no silver bullet for everything. But, as oil prices continue to rise, it will start making more sense to use rail for longer hauls.

      Once that starts happening, the rail infrastructure will expand to reach more remote areas, related industries will spring up to handle the last mile which will enable even more to be shipped by rail and so on.

    21. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      There are railroad tracks going through my home town (Plymouth, NH). Growing up (in the 70's) it was an undesirable area. Now, it's the up-and-coming place. Granted, we don't have a lot of rail traffic going through - if we did it would probably be different. But, you don't see people moving to be next to the highway.

      The biggest drawback currently to the railroad tracks is that they are used by snowmobilers in the winter, which creates infinitely more noise than the comforting sound of the railroad.

      The train station was recently renovated and the whole depot area has been populated with new shops and a park. It's very encouraging.

    22. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      And you have a spelling problem. Do yourself a favor and switch to Firefox. Firefox has saved my butt on almost every post I write.

  26. Who says truckies are stupid? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once everyone finds out that the Semi Trucks drive themselves...

    Most people who have only ever driven cars fail to appreciate that driving heavy trucks is actually quite a demanding job, and not one for dummies. Those rigs are expensive, and no factor that saves fuel or wear and tear can be neglected. It may be popular to label truckies as ignorant yokels, but it is a fact that they need to be quite technically astute. For instance, tyre wear alone is a huge factor when you consider the cost of replacing over 40 tyres on a multi-combination rig.

    As an aside, this reminds me of one time back in my trucking days, some idiot tried to steal my rig. He might have thought he was a shit-hot car driver, but couldn't even muster the coordination required to get the crash box into gear. He was still struggling with it when the police arrived... :-)

    1. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      Woooosh...

      Obviously you are not a fan of The Simpsons.

    2. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Obviously you are not a fan of The Simpsons.

      No.

      [Tempted to make snide remark about Slashdot readers and attention span less than that of a flea, but I won't...]

    3. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Yes you did.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by couchslug · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Most people who have only ever driven cars fail to appreciate that driving heavy trucks is actually quite a demanding job, and not one for dummies."

      Professional truckers are quite capable and skilled people, but many "truckers" aren't professional.

      I don't assume that just because someone passed a quickie driving course and got a license that they have a clue. (Lurk on a few towing forums if you want to see how much business "truckers" generate for towmen recovering the results of their mistakes!).

      Of course, since your post refers to "tyres" you may be in a country with stricter standards and enforcement than the US. :)

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    5. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "tyres"? What is this, 'Beowulf'? Write American!

    6. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by The+Snowman · · Score: 1

      Of course, since your post refers to "tyres" you may be in a country with stricter standards and enforcement than the US. :)

      I saw that and wondered why he was not talking about "lorries."

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    7. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always find it ironic when someone -on- Slashdot makes a sweeping generalization about Slashdot readers...

    8. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      I saw that and wondered why he was not talking about "lorries."

      ...because I'm living in Australia, where heavy vehicle licences are neither quick nor cheap to obtain. Sure, there have been messy cases where drivers have fucked up, but for the most part they go about their business pretty responsibly.

  27. Pretty old tech by fatboyslack · · Score: 1

    The technologies listed here are pretty old now.

    You now have systems where you have one truck with a driver is followed by several driverless trucks. You also can have automatic parking / reversing.

    I can't find any links at the moment but I've seen them demo'd at tradeshows.

    --
    Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -- Leo Tolstoy
    1. Re:Pretty old tech by spauldo · · Score: 1

      You now have systems where you have one truck with a driver is followed by several driverless trucks. You also can have automatic parking / reversing. Driverless trucks? That won't make production, at least on the American interstate system. It would work fine if it wasn't for all the cars on the road. My bet is that an automated driving system wouldn't make a thousand mile trip before it ran someone off the road.

      Automatic backing sounds interesting though. There's a lot of places that are difficult at best to back up to (grocery and department stores are in general really bad about that - blind side backing with no space) and it'd be interesting to see if a computer could do a better job. It'd probably require equipment mounted on the trailer itself though, and I doubt that would be adopted very quickly.
      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    2. Re:Pretty old tech by fatboyslack · · Score: 1

      Driverless trucks? That won't make production, at least on the American interstate system. I know it's being trialled in mines around the place. Would take a *lot* of work before you allow that on highways, but it's not impossible.
      --
      Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -- Leo Tolstoy
  28. Balance that by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1, Insightful
    With the impact of installing a rail link to every town and to every industrial area. Ultimately trucking is needed for some flexibility.

    Rail sure is way better where it can be used.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Balance that by xaxa · · Score: 1

      And balance that impact with the price of building bigger roads!

      Rails take up much less space, there's no rubber pollution from tyres, and no emissions if you use electricity. There's almost certainly less oil dripped onto the ground. And less accidents.

    2. Re:Balance that by Jellybob · · Score: 1

      no emissions if you use electricity

      So where's the electricity coming from then? There may be no emissions *from the train*, but at some point in the chain, emissions have been made generating the electricity that is powering it.

      Unless of course it's entirely solar/wind powered, but somehow I doubt that's the case.
    3. Re:Balance that by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I meant no local emissions. In a city, maintaining the air quality is important.

      I used to live in an apartment block in London (UK) between a major railway line (the one into King's Cross station) and a busy road (also going past that station). The air was always much nicer on the railway side of the building -- almost all of the trains were electric. Occasionally, there'd be a diesel-powered freight train and they stank, although still not as bad as the road. The road smelled oily/greasy, the diesel trains smelled smokey/sooty. The windows above the road were covered with oil and needed to be cleaned quite often, the windows above the railway didn't need cleaning that much, and the dirt was like soot.

      Other comparisons: the railway was much quieter than the road, and the noise from trains was much easy to sleep through. There seems to be a train about every 2½ minutes during the day. There were very few trucks on the road in the day, most deliveries to central London are at night (you can't park in the road outside most shops until nighttime, and it's probably hell driving a truck through London daytime traffic).

    4. Re:Balance that by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      Rail can be used a lot more often then you think even with existing railways. In addition don't we want progress as a society. Building Railways infrastructure especially with bridges so it doesn't obstruct traffic pays off in a huge way. Will it be expensive to build? Yes. But that is called progress. Really trucks should only be used for short hauls.

  29. Very true by epseps · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to be a truck driver before I got into Unix Administration (long story but backing up is now a lot safer). When I left the profession in 1999 the truck stops were just putting rj11 jacks for dial up in the trucker section of the restaurants...Not exactly fast but computers had not hit the real of being personal communication yet....which truckers adopt pretty fast. In 1995 I used to feel like a big shot for walking around with a cell phone when I was among non-truckers but truck drivers already had them and owner-operators began to depend upon them immediatly.

    But back then fuel was relatively cheap and the only modifications we had on our engines were a governor that restricted top speed (mine was annoyingly set at 68). Now I hardly recognise the cab of a modern truck ...I had gauges that used dials and not a single LCD was present and I relied soley on mirror placement and use to avoid accidents.

    Oh, and laminated maps. That was the top technology for finding my way around Houston.

    1. Re:Very true by roblarky · · Score: 0

      This is what they have now: http://www.idleaire.com/

  30. Only read the mouseover diagram.. by AngryLlama · · Score: 0

    but an onboard computer AND handheld computer. Impressive!

  31. Truckers not High Tech??? by hyperz69 · · Score: 2, Informative

    A small while ago I had an occasion where a friend was giving me a lift *don't worry he got the OK from his company first* as I thought it would be a fun experience to go on a run. I was expecting some run down, greasy, loud U-haul type experience. I was blown away by his Modern Machine. It was Swankier the my damn apartment.

    He had a Built in computer with LCD in the sleeper.
    High Speed Internet
    A HIdeaway full shower.
    A mini drink fridge.
    A GPS System
    Hands Free Cell hooked up to his stereo
    2 Reverse Cameras
    20 Inch DVD Entertainment system with Xbox 360
    ect... ect...

    This doesn't even include the major Job enhancing features he pointed out. They have some sort of wireless system where Weigh Stations are not even needed anymore. His dash has a little blinking light to let him know he can drive right past. The downside was some sort of "Tattler" that over the internet was sending all sorts of info to his company. It had a little screen that showed when he had to stop. He hated the damn thing. It even did all his logging for him, but somehow he said it was a bad thing.

  32. Not everyone thinks this is a good idea by Whuffo · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As more and more high-tech monitoring equipment gets loaded into "big rigs" the drivers get more and more unhappy. All arguments about efficiency and protecting against hijacking aside, how would you like it if your employer was monitoring every movement, every moment, your position at any time - all day, every day. Even things like missing a gear change; imagine getting a message later asking you why you let your RPM exceed corporate limits.

    I worked for a large (LARGE) national trucking corporation for seven years in their IT department. Occasionally, I'd go to the terminals to talk with dispatchers / drivers to see how IT could make their jobs easier or faster. What I heard a lot about was how much they hated the invisible boss watching over their shoulder, monitoring every little detail of their workday and questioning them about anything that wasn't according to the way the corporation wanted it to be. "Why did you stop at the rest area off of 101 for 15 minutes at 12:33 PM on August 3?" "I needed to take a leak" "It shouldn't have taken you 15 minutes to take a leak" - and you can imagine where it goes from there.

    Does all this monitoring and control increase efficiency and reduce costs? That's open to debate; while it may cut out some unscheduled downtime, it also cuts out some unscheduled overtime and / or supra-legal speeds. Net effect at the bottom line? Who knows, but it's mighty close to a wash. Where the real difference is - the drivers attitude about their job. They used to be "captain of their ship", piloting their load of valuable cargo to its destination - using the routes and methods that their years of experience had shown to be best. Now they're just cogs in the machine; follow the route you're given, operate the tractor according to corporate policy - and we're going to monitor you carefully to make sure you do - and punish you for every transgression. How can you take pride in your job under those conditions? Very dehumanizing and it just gets worse year after year. Each year the corporate overlords refine their expectations of what it takes to operate a truck at maximum efficiency.

    Ultimately, what the corporation is thinking about is how much they pay those drivers - and how they could reduce that expense. Refining the task of "drive a truck" to the point where it's just a matter of following instructions is the first step. Once they've achieved that, there'll be no more need for those highly experienced drivers - someone with a new commercial license could do the same job at about one third the salary. This would cut those labor expenses and allow the corporation to post increased profits.

    But how would you feel about no longer being able to assume that those big trucks are being driven by professional drivers. How would you feel to know that 80,000 pounds of freight in the lane next to you is being driven by a dropout that's talking on his cell phone?

    This isn't idle speculation - this is the way things have been going for quite a few years now. All that's changed is the price of fuel; as that climbs, the transportation companies are faced with a hard choice - cut expenses to compensate or raise their rates. Raising the rates enough to cover the new improved cost of fuel would chase away a substantial number of customers so the pressure is on to cut labor expenses. After numerous reorganizations and cuts it's now the drivers turn on the hot seat. Next time you see one on the road, give him a smile and a wave. Those guys work long hours for not a lot of money and do all they can to keep everyone around them on the roads safe. Everything you buy - EVERYTHING - got to you in the back of a big rig. Think about the people who have dedicated their lives to making sure your store has an adequate supply of canned beer and what's being done to them in the name of "increased efficiency" and tip your hat; these guys deserve your gratitude.

    1. Re:Not everyone thinks this is a good idea by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      The *real* problem I see? When you take up a career of being a truck driver today, you're essentially signing up for a job of playing "robot".

      The next logical step for trucking companies is to automate the big rigs so they can drive themselves on auto-pilot to their pre-programmed destinations.

      The railroads have done a lot of this already. We have a big railroad yard not far from my workplace, and signs are all over the railroad crossings around here, warning people that the trains may be unmanned.

      As technology progresses, new jobs are created and old ones become obsolete. Truck driving is well on its way out, as we learn enough details to monitor and understand the "ideal" set of circumstances we expect all trucks to operate under while in transit, etc.

      I realize there are still technical hurdles to pass before an un-manned semi on our highways would be feasible, but work is being done on all of this as we speak. Perhaps they'll even dedicate a special lane just for this purpose on all the major roads/highways, and put up a tall concrete barrier preventing any cars from crossing over and using it? That would seem to solve a lot of issues right there, of concerns over a computer being able to safely deal with unexpected human driver behavior.

    2. Re:Not everyone thinks this is a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And just how exactly do you 'take pride' in... driving? Are you serious? Or are you an uneducated monkey who's bitter because a machine can do what used to be your job? You take pride in solving problems that few people or no other people can solve, not in 'driving'. Educate yourself and get a real job, one that exercises your mind and your problem solving ability if you have what it takes. If you remain uneducated, you are effectively a cog in the machine. And a replaceable one, of course.

    3. Re:Not everyone thinks this is a good idea by Datameister · · Score: 1

      I think you raise a lot of good points here. Driver retention has been and continues to be a serious problem in the industry. Excessive/invasive monitoring only makes that worse. If you overuse or abuse those technologies, your driver turnover will increase.

      On the other hand, there are some things that technology has brought to drivers over the last several years that they really like. Online access to load information is a big hit. So is the ability to transmit paperwork - via images in our case - back to the home office instead of overnighting it. The drivers at the company I work for like it because they get paid faster.

      The bottom line is that if a company wants to take care of its drivers it has to use these technologies responsibly. If not, drivers will leave.

  33. Re:GPS and moron drivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All they need to do is to tell the Navigation System not to use small roads. i.e. in the UK stick to A and B roads.

    As usual it's not the technology it's the morons unable to read the instructions that come with them.

  34. Re:Pretty old tech? HOLD ON by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    ...when did they invent mouseover??

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  35. American trucks are pathetic by Computershack · · Score: 1
    US built trucks are pathetic. They're gutless fuel guzzling behemoths compare to European trucks.

    In the UK with have heavy goods vehicles typically with 420-480BHP pulling 44 tonnes (88000lbs) and managing to return 8-10MPG despite the fact that the geography of the UK means we don't benefit from the long straightish free-flowing road system the USA has.

    --
    I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
    1. Re:American trucks are pathetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the third time you've posted the same comment on this article. I agreed with you the first time, started to think you were a little over-eager the second, and start to think you're a jerk by the third.

      Yeah, yeah, American trucks are worse than EU trucks. We know. Of course they are. Now shut up.

    2. Re:American trucks are pathetic by maxume · · Score: 1

      Have you accounted for the difference between the US gallon and imperial gallon yet (this is your third post about fuel use...)?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:American trucks are pathetic by JFrizzle · · Score: 1

      Because "American" brands like Mack (owned by Volvo) and "Freightliner" (owner by Daimler) have nothing to do with that. And in case you didn't know, Mack is heavily involved in developing hybrid trucks which is EXTREMELY useful in vocational style trucks (e.g garbage, construction, etc.)

    4. Re:American trucks are pathetic by Computershack · · Score: 1

      Yes. And the fact we run at higher weights, have far higher traffic congestion and don't benefit from the long free flowing highways the US has.

      --
      I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
    5. Re:American trucks are pathetic by maxume · · Score: 1

      I wonder what the reason is, truck owners and operators in the US are as greedy as anyone else, I don't know why they would be using anything less than the best available trucks.

      (Part of the reason could be road engineering, less roads with more traffic means better roads and higher weight limits. Around here, there are several months of the year with significant weight restrictions, especially on side roads, due to snow melt)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  36. Oblig by Project2501a · · Score: 1

    You and Ayn Rand!

    --
    ----
    1. Re:Oblig by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ayn Rand hasn't been hoping for anything for quite a while.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Oblig by LilGuy · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I know we're way off topic but who is John Galt?

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
  37. all working in real time by Evildonald · · Score: 1

    "help drivers avoid an accident, all working in real time" The trouble they had with the old systems was they weren't real-time. "*beep* You should have avoided that collision."

  38. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by Omestes · · Score: 5, Informative

    My father is a life long trucker, and when I was younger I went with him on several trips, learning the business.

    Most trucking companies with their own trucks have regulators in them with limit the speed to California highway spec for semis(I think 55). Swift is the biggest one I can think of that does this. These companies generally charge per-hour or trip, and not per hour, which also minimizes speed. They also have pretty good safety enforcement, and trip monitoring. The ones to worry about are the independent contractors. They are paid per mile, or make money based on the speed of their delivery, thus have an incentive to speed, and be reckless. They also have far less safety and maintenance requirements than corporate drivers.

    The margins in modern trucking are pretty damn slim, so sometimes people cut corners.

    If you want to be afraid, just wait until the foreign trucking provisions of NAFTA come through, and we're flooded with Mexican truckers, driving Mexican trucks, completely immune to American safety, and EPA standards, much less CDL standards.

    Most of my "bad trucker" experiences were due to morons in cars acting recklessly. People don't realize that trucks have a MASSIVE stopping distance, miles of blindspots, and the empty trailers REALLY suck. I see so many people change lanes 10ft in front of trucks going 75mph, thinking it is safe. Sometimes I hope that something terrible happens, just so I can feel good about Darwin.

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  39. Who else read it like this? by jm91509 · · Score: 1

    Blah blah blah... ...cool mouseover diagram...

    blah blah blah

  40. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by aproposofwhat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to be afraid, just wait until the foreign trucking provisions of NAFTA come through, and we're flooded with Mexican truckers, driving Mexican trucks, completely immune to American safety, and EPA standards, much less CDL standards.

    Let me second that from a UK perspective.

    Since the inclusion of the former Eastern European states into the EU, we have seen a huge rise in traffic accidents caused by foreign drivers, especially Eastern Europeans with badly maintained rigs.

    Disclaimer - I'm not a trucker, but I regularly do about 40,000 miles a year on the roads, and have never had an accident while moving (been rear-ended twice, but hey, what can you do?).

    --
    One swallow does not a fellatrix make
  41. Summary Behind the Times by ShakaUVM · · Score: 3, Informative

    Slashdot is even further behind the times than that. Well, the submitter, but still.

    Before Qualcomm made it big with CDMA, their first major product was a satellite based truck tracking/logistics systems (called OMNITrack). It came out, oh, in 1985 or thereabouts.

    Amazing that the summary said we're just now seeing high tech stuff appear in the world of trucking... pfft.

    Of course, I only knew about that since I went to college at UC San Diego, and Qualcomm was the local high tech company that hired a huge number of our engineering graduates.

    1. Re:Summary Behind the Times by Datameister · · Score: 1

      There are still a lot of tractors on the road today with OMNITracs units in them. It's hard to believe how long those things have been around. However, laptops with nationwide cards and smartphones are replacing them every day.

  42. US truckers should drive cabovers by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    If america truckers weaned themselves off their love of conventionals and used cabovers where the engine goes under the cab (like 99.9% of euro trucks) that 2 metre hood/bonnet at the front could vanish and with it about 1 or 2 tons of unnecessary dead weight. Not only that - a shorter tractor is more manouverable and because its lighter can haul a larger load for the same engine size.

    1. Re:US truckers should drive cabovers by ijustam · · Score: 1

      How much fuel would be lost overcoming air resistance vs. the fuel gained from less weight?

    2. Re:US truckers should drive cabovers by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I seem to remember years ago, the cabover designs were a lot more popular. I'm thinking late-1970's early 1980's. Am I remembering right? Was the reason for this the oil crisis or something else?

  43. Re:Oblig response by Avallach · · Score: 1

    I wish I knew.

  44. High, for americans perhaps by wijnands · · Score: 1

    I always have to laugh when I see american trucks. They try so hard to stay a decade behind the rest of the world. They are failing though, that adaptive cruise control and lane change detection are fairly new.

  45. Re:WATERFORGAS.COM to outcast36 and himurabattousa by somersault · · Score: 1

    Isn't that more "steel/aluminium for gas"? The water doesn't get used up in fuel cell processes if it's done right.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  46. Re:WATERFORGAS.COM to outcast36 and himurabattousa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess you never heard of the second law of thermodynamics.

  47. Incorrect and impractical by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Even assuming the correct definition of order of magnitude (5th root of 100, not 10) you are not correct. Diesel-electric drives can achieve nearly 30% thermal efficiency at constant speed. Electric drive may start with a turbine system running as high as 45% thermal efficiency, but then losses in conversion, distribution and re-conversion can reduce that below 30%, even with regenerative braking. There are many benefits to electric drive - including the ability to run in tunnels and dense urban areas, easier monitoring and control, and reduced maintenance costs - but unless you live in France, Finland or Japan, with a high reliance on nuclear power, the emissions will not be reduced as much as you think.

    Much as I like trains in principle, it has to be said that trucks are not that bad especially where they can run at constant speed and be Diesel fueled. Problems come when they have to mix with other traffic, and that was the strategic error- not providing dedicated truck lanes and separating them from other traffic. One factor driving up SUV/light truck use, in Europe as well as the US is surely fear of heavy trucks.

    However, in many countries exactly the same mistake was made with rail - the traffic pattern meant that passenger trains had to be built to the same shunting capability as freight trains, making passenger trains unnecessarily heavy and lacking in efficiency.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  48. No Giant Hybrids? by evilgourmet · · Score: 1

    I thought this article would be more on the lines of a giant hybrid, maybe a modification of this: 400 hp Hybrid mini Cooper Most of that tech was on my father's truck years ago; onboard logs, gps tracking, etc.

  49. farm tractors that look like airplane cockpits by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Earlier this year I wandering around the local county fair. A compnay was exhibiting its latest in tractor cabs. It looked like an airplane cockpit. First,there were 360-view TV screens to see what what is happening everywhere. These things take a while a while to stop and start and you want to be stopping for every bump. Then they had GPS navigation for precision planting and harvesting. Not a foot of land would need go to waste. Plus there are computers and sftware to optimize energy usage.

  50. surcharges by zogger · · Score: 1

    We are getting hit with an additional fuel surcharge for every feed delivery now, that is recent over the past few months. Along with an increases in the feed itself (and propane, offroad diesel, electricity, local taxes, water, machinery repair parts, etc..all up over last year). Prices paid by the packers have remained constant. Hmmm This is the poultry biz, only a handful of packers to choose from and they all have basically the same contract they offer the growers so the point is moot there.

    Now my analysis isn't so much the oil producers (the gulf nations are barely maintaining parity with what they were getting before the recent cash infusions diluting the dollar's worth, they are complaining about it *loud*) or the other farmers (grains) who start the feed stack making more, the big increases seem to be coming from the big investment places and traders speculating on commodities now that they screwed mortgage lending so bad combined with the Fed bailing out those big investment banks and them taking that new cash and gambling with it.

    In short, rapid inflation, with the inflationary dollars going to commodities speculation driving up prices.

    Your truckers aren't complaining yet about fuel costs? You use independents or have your own fleet and hired drivers? A lot of the independents are on the razor's edge right now from what I hear.

  51. Construction Freight Pricing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the construction industry freight prices ARE going up.

    6-7 years ago some suppliers started adding a fuel surcharge to shipments.

    Just recently, one supplier instructed us to adjust the freight prices in the estimating software by adding 22% to the shipping milage. Note this supplier rarely sends LTL shipments, and often an order takes more than 1 truck.

    ABIL

  52. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apparently, you don't know any truckers, have never been a trucker, or been in a truck.

    The speed limit is fine. It is four-wheelers like you who get in the safety margin truckers leave that are the problem.

    A good example happened in LA. A trucker was sited for following too close. He fought the ticket, and his defense was that it was impossible to not follow too close because any space he left in front of his truck was immediately filled by a car. He took the judge for a ride and showed him. The case was dismissed because within 5 minutes they were at a complete stop while the driver tried to comply with the law.

    Oh, and about truckers and speeding, if you want to slow them down, change the law so they are not paid by the mile. The faster one drives, the more one makes.

    I should I know. I drove a semi for Warner for a year.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  53. Rail versus trucking by sjbe · · Score: 1

    i was under the impression that the real problem in the u.s. is that there are laws making it difficult/impossible for railroad companies to own semi-trucks, put into place to help a fledgling trucking industry at some point, and never rescinded. I'm not personally aware of any such laws but I think the reasons the rail companies don't have dedicated trucking fleets (branded ones anyway) are economic more than anything else. Barriers to entry in trucking is FAR lower than in rail and the profit margins behave accordingly.

    Rail companies do however have BIG investments in intermodal transport which usually includes trucking as well as ocean freight components. Container shipping is what drives our economy these days and the rail companies know it. The nice thing about container shipping is that there is no need to handle the freight itself directly except at the destinations which saves a lot of money; you just strap the ISO standard container to the truck/train/ship of your choice and use the most efficient transport method available.
  54. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Most trucking companies with their own trucks have regulators in them with limit the speed to California highway spec for semis(I think 55). Swift is the biggest one I can think of that does this.

    Having had to speed up to 65 in a 55 to pass a Swift truck going 60 about a million fucking times, I have to say, *cough*bullshit*cough*. In fact, if I see a trucker in California going the 55 limit, they MUST be pulling a mobile home.

    Most of my "bad trucker" experiences are related to the fact they won't use a fucking turnout when there's thirty people behind them. I live in Lake County, California and when going between Upper Lake and Clear Lake (highway 20 between the junctions of highway 29 and highway 53) I have time and time again been stuck behind truckers doing ten or more miles under the speed limit who will happily ignore the MANY extremely broad places for them to pull over and let people pass. A large number of them appear in some town when they have to go slowly anyway and it would not be exceptionally arduous.

    I understand they're under pressure to conserve every dime. I don't care - they're still assholes in my book when they do that shit. Nazis were just doing their job too - this is only a matter of degree.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  55. the theory on hydrogen injection as I understand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..it and earlier water and alcohol injection like with fighter planes in ww2, is that it improves the efficiency of the burn so much that you gain more power and better mileage. It not only helps cool the intake so you can run a leaner mixture, but if you use hydrogen and oxygen together it is an additional fuel source at the same time, in a perfect ratio. It has nothing to do with disregarding thermodynamics, it follows the "laws" completely and takes advantage of them along with chemical realityon. Yes, you lose a little with alternator drag making the hydrogen, but you get more back because the hydrogen really expands in the cylinder and acts as a big flame propagation source that insures all the macromolecules of the normal hydrocarbon fuel that have been partially atomized by the heat of the intake combined with the fuel injectors or venturi/vacuum action from the carb spreads out better inside the cylinder and burns there and not get exhausted unburnt and wasted. Ever hear of catalytic converters? What do you think they do, why are they even needed? Answer = they try to get the wasted fuel that is not burnt to finish burning so the exhaust is cleaner. A huge power waste, but it cleans the exhaust better. It is much better for efficiency and power to burn the fuel inside the engine and not outside the engine. All sorts of various schemes have been devised and are in use to increase this efficiency, multiple valves, variable valve timing, multiple plugs or sparks like the old mallory dual point, etc, whereas a hydrogen boost system just approaches it from a chemical viewpoint, not mechanical.

  56. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by spun · · Score: 1

    (been rear-ended twice, but hey, what can you do?). Lie back and think of England?

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  57. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by Bryansix · · Score: 1

    Solution: Don't allow anything over a class B truck on California Freeways. It's just not safe for full-sized Big Rigs to be on the roads here anyways.

    But what about Interstate trucking? Ship it by train. That's what freight trains are for.

  58. Truck Races by PPH · · Score: 1

    Any thoughts as to how to prevent truck races? You know, where one rig climbing a long grade at 47 MPH figures he can pull out to pass a line of other trucks only doing 43 MPH. When the speed limit, and everyone else, is doing 70 MPH.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Truck Races by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      Do *you* slow down when you come up behind slower traffic ?
      If not, then you're in no position to criticize. No1 rule when driving a truck - keep it moving. If you have to slow down or stop then it takes ages to get back up to any kind of speed again, and guess what ? Some idiot complains about being held up behind a truck. Then overtakes, pulls in in front and jams the brakes on causing the truck to go even slower. Not to mention the extra fuel that slowing down will cost, which then gets passed directly on to you the consumer. In extreme cases, having to stop on a hill may put you in the position where you *can't* get moving again. That'll help the traffic flow !
      Make your mind up, are we going too fast or too slow ?
      You do realise that the whole original purpose of the road was to transport goods quickly. The general public are relative latecomers and now they think they own the damn roads. Favourite trick of car drivers is to drive slowly at the bottom of a hill, forcing the following truck to slow down, then the car carries on at a sedate pace up the hill , while the truck has to change down three or four gears and struggle up the hill. And even if the truck gets chance to overtake, suddenly the car speeds up just enough to stop you getting past. It's all fun and games isn't it.
      Yes I drive a truck, stay out of my way and I'll do my best to stay out of yours. Unless you like having a pissed off trucker behind you with a 44 ton weight to throw around. That's metric tons BTW.

    2. Re:Truck Races by PPH · · Score: 1

      Do *you* slow down when you come up behind slower traffic ? If I'm going to block faster traffic by pulling out to pass then yes I do.
      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  59. Working in real time? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

    enhanced GPSs that keep tabs on tractors and trailers, and safety systems which issue warnings or even take action to help drivers avoid an accident -- all working in real time.

    As opposed to what?

    Alert! Alert! You are about to get into an accident, 5 hours ago when this data was collected! Take immediate evasive action 5 hours ago!

  60. Convoy... Convoy... by acecamaro666 · · Score: 1

    We gotta great big convoy!

  61. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    yeah, that will work~

    It is obvious you have no clue about transportation and logistics.

    I never had any trouble driving in CA. In fact the worst places are in the NE because many of the locations were designed with 40ft or shorter trailers.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  62. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most trucking companies with their own trucks have regulators in them with limit the speed to California highway spec for semis(I think 55).
    Trucks in most of the Eastern U.S. now go about 75+ mph and will tailgate cars that go under 70 mph. I've been traveling alot lately and I can't count the number of times I've seen semis endanger the safety of the public. Some of them are totally out of control and should be in prison.
  63. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by zippthorne · · Score: 1

    I haven't found Big Rigs to be driving over the speed limit or dangerously on the road. It's the short haul local trucks that seem to be doing the vast majority of reckless driving.

    Frankly, I feel for the big rig guys, spending hour upon hour on the road just trying to make a living safely, when they've got the fragile little minnows drafting or cutting into their carefully maintained gap.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  64. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by Bryansix · · Score: 1

    It's obvious that you live nowhere near Los Angeles or Orange County.

  65. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by Omestes · · Score: 1

    Having had to speed up to 65 in a 55 to pass a Swift truck going 60 about a million fucking times, I have to say, *cough*bullshit*cough*. In fact, if I see a trucker in California going the 55 limit, they MUST be pulling a mobile home.

    Perhaps I'm wrong on the specifics, maybe the regulator is set to 60, and not 55. Its been about 10 years since I used to ride along with my father, and he's mostly local, and short-hop now. I had two complaints about California trucking laws, both as someone in a truck, and someone in a car, restricting trucks to a lower speed limit AND to the right two lanes is daft. Especially at choke points like Needles and Blythe. Trying to merge past a lumbering line of behemoths was annoying as hell in a car, and, in a truck, it let me see just how reckless it forces drivers to be.

    It depends on the trucking company of course, as well. Probably more than half of trucks, back then, didn't have regulators. Listening to CB chatter was enlightening, since the truckers know where every damn cop and speed trap is located, thus go as fast as they feel like. If a truck gets pulled over, or even sees highway patrol, guaranteed every truck in radio range knows what mile marker to slow down to the legal limit at.

    I live in Lake County, California and when going between Upper Lake and Clear Lake (highway 20 between the junctions of highway 29 and highway 53) I have time and time again been stuck behind truckers doing ten or more miles under the speed limit who will happily ignore the MANY extremely broad places for them to pull over and let people pass.

    Is there a grade? Even a 1% grade can be a bitch in a loaded semi. I'm not sure of the terrain. But yes, truckers are just as disposed towards being asses as the rest of the population.

    Comparing trucker to Nazis might be a stretch though. They really aren't out to get you. :)

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  66. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well, if you didn't drive on the wrong side of the road...

  67. Unmanned trains by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

    The "unmanned" trains aren't being driven by robots or computers. They are being driven by traincrew who are on the ground (where they can throw track switches and couple/uncouple cars) and are using a beltpack locomotive remote control http://www.beltpackcorp.com/products.html .

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  68. Re:Correct and practical? by Geezle2 · · Score: 1
    Perhaps you misunderstood me. I was referring to emissions, not efficiency. While carbon dioxide emissions are closely related to efficiency, there are many other emissions which are fairly trivial to mitigate at a large fossil fueled stationary power plant, but pose a much more significant technological challenge in light weight, compact, mobile power plants. For example, particulate emissions, non-carbon oxides such as sulfur oxides and nitrogen oxides, and other emissions are easily and cost-effectively removed from the exhausts of large power generating installations.

    Furthermore, you compare the best case efficiency of small plants (diesels-electrics attaining 30% efficiency) with what is almost the worst case for large plants (45% at the generator and 30% after distribution). This is inappropriate for a number of reasons. First of all, transmission losses only average around 7% in the US. Even with fairly old power stations supplying the electricity this compares well with modern diesel prime movers. Modern power stations, on the other hand, can achieve efficiencies of almost 60% and can scrub the exhaust gasses of practically everything except CO2. Additionally, as you suggest, advanced nations get a fair amount of their electricity from non-fossil fuels. Over 30% of America's base load power generation releases practically no emissions into the atmosphere.

    Finally, expecting long haul freight and express passenger service to share tracks is ridiculous. This is only done in the US to maximize utilization of small investments in infrastructure. Even local routes where freight and passenger service may run on the same lines, the efficiency of the system is only lacking with respect to rail transportation on dedicated lines. In the worst case scenario (steam engines on the local lines?) passenger rail will still beat individual vehicles for efficiency and emissions.

    BTW, the factor that is driving up SUV use is not fear of commercial vehicles, but rather fear of other SUVs. Commercial vehicles, particularly in the US, are driven by skilled professionals whose actions almost NEVER result in accidents. SUV drivers, on the other hand, tend to be far from professional. Feeling secure in their Hummer, they are comfortable in treating driving as a full contact sport.

  69. Road Spray by fairalbion · · Score: 1

    European truck surround their wheels with astroturf-lined flaps that keep spray down. I do not see much in the way of road spray suppression gear around the tires of tractors and trailers in the USA. The only reason I can think for this is that encasing the wheels would lead to heat-build up, which is more likely to be a problem in the USA's hotter climate.