Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Study Says Repetitive Strain Injury Costs $600m
4roddas writes "Work-related RSI cases are at an all-time high and the cost to businesses is spiraling, new Microsoft research reveals.
Repetitive strain injury cases have soared by over 30 percent in the last year, costing businesses over US$600 million in lost working hours — and causing pain and debilitating discomfort to over-worked staff.
Microsoft claims the rapidly emerging trend of 'mobile working' — with office-based employees now working on the move for an average of an hour more per day than they did two years ago using laptops and mobile devices — is behind this alarming climb in work-related injury.
The company arrived at its conclusions in a poll among over 1,000 office workers, HR managers and office managers. This showed that 68 percent of office workers suffered from aches and pains, with the most common symptoms including back ache, shoulder pain and wrist/hand pain."
I hate to be cynical, but why would Microsoft fund this study? They sell ergonomic keyboards. I wonder if they're coming out with some new ergonomic device, if they are trying to prop up sales of their current line of ergonomic devices, or if their funding of the study was simply an act of generosity (otherwise known as a tax write-off).
Also, first post?
those actors in the porn movies who must suffer from repetitively moving to and fro, always in and out of their workplace. It must be real hard to not know where you've been or where you're going next when the threat of Repetitive strain injury starts to affect your closest of kin that lives next to the twins.
From the article: The research suggests that one of the main factors behind the high number of injuries is because not enough companies are replacing their existing office equipment with ergonomic hardware that can significantly reduce the risk of RSI.
Translation:
"...not enough companies are replacing their existing office equipment with ergonomic hardware that can run Vista."
I use a 15" at work, would much prefer a desktop with a decent screen. By the time you hook up external keyboard and mouse it has to sit so far away you need an external monitor as well.
Next they should do a study on how much extra "Your computer wants to do something mundane and we need to you click another box. Confirm or Deny?" clicks contribute to RSI.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
I have to say that this is amazing, when you give your employees the ability to work at home, they over work themselves.
That seems the opposite of conventional wisdom, and I remember reading another story here, some time ago, that said that in the office employees think that telecommuters appear to be doing less work.
Crap! I just kissed my karma good-bye.
Clearly, what we need is a new way to interface with a computer, something like speaking/yelling at it and/or a touchscreen interface.
Naively I ask, does Microsoft have any such projects in development?
hmmm....
Idiots. If they wouldn't pop up a notification every time a computer farts or a mouse is plugged in, maybe interfacing with the computer wouldn't be so, you know, repetitive!
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Let me guess... Microsoft has the answer, and it's called Surface?
they can herald the end of the mouse. Brought to you tonite by Micro$oft.
more people need to buy the Microsoft Natural Keyboard.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Microsoft admits the reinstalling Windows each day causes medical problems.
those chairs are HEAVY, dammit!
1. Write software that requires the grunt of a desktop machine to run.
2. Discredit mobile computing (where you aren't doing so well) by blaming it for a medical condition.
3. Profit!
Seriously though, how is it news that performing more of a repetitive action that causes RSI causes (wait for it!) more incidents of RSI?
I'm more interested in the phenomenon whereby technology that is supposed to make our working lives easier and faster is actually making us work more. (I know, it's not *making* us work more, but why on Earth would anyone want to do more work in more time? Doing the same work in less time, or more work in the same time I can understand).
My employer (Sabre Holdings) offers Active Release Therapy (ART) for RSI and similar problems. The doctor that does this comes into the office two mornings a week and does 15 minute treatment sessions. No complex insurance forms and the associated cost of running around and taking time off to get it treated. It's a nice benefit to have :-)
I've had ART done on me for running injuries (repetitive strain) and it's worked really well, I recommend it.
Microsoft has caused business to lose in working hours from:
* Work / time lost directly due to viruses
* Work / time lost indirectly due to dealing with spam / botnets (due to insecure Windows Machines)
* Incompatibilities between MS Office versions
* Certifying what Hardware / Software Vista REALLY supports
etc etc.
I'd have to imagine that the bottleneck would be Microsoft before anything like carpal tunnel, RSI, MS, or blindness.
The road between democracy and tyranny is paved with secrecy in the name of security.
The underlying cause of RSI is that you dont need to be very accurate to hit keys on a keyboard, and so you can be fairly indiscriminate about which keys you hit. The nerves all activate together, and, over a long period, you lose the ability to distinguish between nerve fibres.
Enbroidery requires you to be very accurate, and you re-learn the use of the individual nerves.
I leave google as an exercise for the reader, while I get back to my needlework.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Funny how the increase in workhours is mostly due to technology Microsoft introduced themselves, among others. Windows Mobile comes to mind. What a handy business model, when you're the reason and the cure for a popular problem all at once. Greatest invention since the postal undertaker.
...in something that's been known about and documented over the last 20 odd years. Any one pounding keys all day is at risk for this. I'm not sure a survey was needed. I'm trying to work out what Microsoft are doing these sort of surveys for now. Maybe even find out why they are doing it now.
According to this article from may 16th
http://www.nu.nl/news/1569649/36/rss/RSI-klachten_weer_op_niveau_van_10_jaar_geleden.html
(sorry it's in dutch) our RSI numbers are down to the same as ten years ago. So we don't see to have the problem that MS is warning us about.
I wonder why that is?
This is the sig that says NI (again)
getting random BSOD's, and IT Help Desk people from walking to and from computer terminals to fix simple issues. I guess the more that you are up and about the more likelihood of getting hurt. No wonder Linux saves money it hardly goes down and usually a simple SSH Session is needed to fix something unless SSHD is dead.
I'm on a computer a good portion of the day and really enjoy using the Dvorak keyboard layout. Some studies say they layout results in faster typing, some say not, however the amount of finger travel required to type on Dvorak is substantially less than qwerty. I've been using Dvorak for about 12 years now and haven't had any wrist trouble.
It just makes sense to use a optimized keyboard layout instead of an intentionally de-optimized layout from 130 years ago that was primarly designed to prevent typewriter hammers from sticking together. To further show how asinine the qwerty layout is, one of the marketing directives was to put all the letters to spell TYPE WRITER, which was the machines' brand name, on the top row so salesmen would have an easy demo.
This also keeps co-workers off my console in the event I forget to lock it. What's even more amusing is to change someone else's layout to dvorak and be there when they get confused. I quickly ask them to show me and I type something in front of them. We go back and forth a few times and for a split second, I take amusement in that person questioning their own sanity.
why Microsoft insists on changing user interface on each and every release - they are doing it to protect us! My heroes!
While I'm a bit dubious of why Microsoft cares, I'm also coming off two weeks of appalling pain in my left (non dominant) hand. It arrived in the middle of the night after a long day at the keyboard, with enough force to wake me up and keep me awake. A little thought revealed the culprit: A decorative metal strip (sort of like half a pipe) runs around the table where I sit, and my wrists were resting directly on it. Plenty of ibuprofen and padding with a soft towel took care of the immediate problem, but I probably lost three days of productive work. Actually I couldn't drive properly either. A padded wrist rest seems to be helping now. I think it's very easy to sit there and work while being entirely unaware of a low level of discomfort that can then become acute.
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
I've often thought Windows keyboard shortcuts poorly thought out compared to MacOS. On the Mac most shortcuts are based around the Command modifier key which naturally sits beneath your thumb, making most shortcuts a simple reach, whereas on Windows PCs many shortcuts are based around Ctrl which sits under your little finger making even the most simple of key combos more of a stretch... and not a comfortable stretch at that.
I've never had RSI issues using a Mac (16+ hours per day), whereas I often have pains in my left hand from the overreach required for shortcuts if I have to spend more than a few hours working on one of the Windows boxes in the office.
It'd be interesting to see the OS split for the data that MS gathered over this RSI issue as I'm convinced that bad ergonomic layout of keyboard shortcuts is a major factor in the problem for anyone sat for long periods of time at a machine.
I bet construction workers are sore everyday they work their whole lives. I wonder if it is more the right hand for right handed guys and the left hand for left handed guys.....
all the users repeatedly smacking their heads against the keyboard after being forced to use Vista.
Monstar L
Great, we have yet another self-promoting missive from a company that manufactures ergonomic keyboards and pointing devices.
Kriston
A psychiatrist friend of mine has a whole section in her website on whether RSI even exists. http://www.lucire.com.au/writers_cramp_main.aspx
this is from people continuously having to press CTRL + ALT + DEL
Thank you, I'm here all night! Try the veal!
Summation 2
go figure...
I wonder how much of this is an actual increase in the problem, or an increase in the reporting of the problem?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
most of these injuries are due to the poor ergonomics of stooping over a laptop placed on your lap
what i've done is devoted my eating regimen to ice cream, fast food, and sugary sodas, thereby establishing a nice shelf space, massive rolls of belly fat, on which to perch my laptop. now that my laptop is securely nestled close to my face, my wrists assume a natural curvature during typing, my back is straight rather than stooped over, and i've even reduced my eye strain
therefore, i heartily (cough wheeze) endorse a high calorie regimen to decrease RSI via belly perching your laptop for better ergonomics. its a dramatic improvement in joint health
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
About 10 years ago I started having problems with pains in one of my wrists. I was a software engineer and I'm now a sysadmin so keyboards are critical to my work. When I first started getting the pains I got one of those wrist braces and it would help for a while but when I stopped wearing it the soreness would eventually return. I knew a guy around that time who was a professional chef, and apparently they get RSI injures quite a bit due to the repetitive motions used in food preperation. He also managed the openings of some restaurants and used a computer quite a bit for that as well as to manage recipes, menus, etc. He ended up having surgery on both wrists but also got one of the first generations ergonomic keyboards from Microsoft. I tried that keyboard out myself and I've been using them religiously ever since. I find the layout of the keys & the shape of the keyboard much more natural to the way my hands naturally rest on it compared with "straight" keyboards. Now any time I have to use a regular keyboard it makes me feel like my hands are crowded and in a forced unnatural position. I haven't felt any problems in my wrists or had to wear a wrist brace in close to a decade thanks to switching almost exclusively to the ergonomic keyboards. I'm not saying that the MS keyboards will work for everybody but if you do a lot of computer work you should try out various ergonomic keyboards and find one that feels comfortable to you. It can make a HUGE difference.
... and Microsoft is responsible for 50% of the damage because they invented the double-click where 1 single click would be sufficient. Greetings, Chris
"An operating system must operate."
The RSI was not caused by computer equipment as such but the repetitive wrist movements of M$ employees during idle hours watching footage of chair-throwing-fetish videos.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
Does the story right the dreams or do the dreams right the stories?
People are constantly hearing about carpel tunnel and RSI, it's really going to get in their heads. Testing for nerve damage from RSI is a little expensive, even if it's short and easy if a little painful. People aren't rushing out to get this done.
These studies are probably based on "Do your hands hurt when you use the computer a lot?" and how many people say yes? Using keyboards and mice for a really long time hurts, it's just the way it is, but that doesn't mean it's definitely doing damage to you.
This is clearly just Microsoft bullshit. I can say that with full authority because everyone knows everything Microsoft says and does is bullshit.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
This number is meaningless. Is that a lot? It sounds like a lot, but I have no frame of reference. A 30% increase from its previous value sounds significant, but it, too, is meaningless it's based on a value that has no comparison to anything else. It might not be so significant if, for example, accidental stapling of documents to people's fingers (which rarely happens...at least, where I work) costs industry $800 billion a year.
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
Those weird martian keyboards definitely look cool, but critically fail to take into account the most important part :
/. geeks).
Nobody stay immobile the whole day with their back straight hand laid down in optimal(c) position(r) the whole day.
Or if they actually do, they're going to have lots of back and neck pain very fast.
All these device are optimised for a specific optimal position.
Whereas, changing position often is critical against back/neck pains.
Thus these devices aren't polyvalant enough for someone who's going to use them the whole day. I mean they can't even be used one handed (whereas a keyboard can... as proven by countless single
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
What they did not mention is that a side study shows that most workplace injuries come from tossed Ergonomic Chairs. Which then identifies how much sense it makes that Microsoft funded this study.
Studies are showing RSI costs $600m.
Why is it that money is more important, aside the fact businesses enslave their employees through overwork and deadlines?
RSI is not only caused by bad positioning, but also by expecting more than which can be given. By stressing the body way overtime.
What's going to be next ? Sleep deprivation costs businesses $600m ?
To my opinion the root cause should be talked about instead of the result in an entities wallet.
Treat the root-problem instead of looking to the consequences only.
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
The ratio is more like 1.7:1 according to this keyboard analysis on prose. For 250 kB of text, you travel 6.3 km on Qwerty and 3.7 km on Dvorak (only horizontal travel counted). If you don't spend too much time thinking about what you write, you might be able to type that amount in 3 days or so, so 2 versus 1.3 km per day.
(Happily using Dvorak since 1995)
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
Are you sure you want to continue? Yes / No
This will screw something up if you continue, are you really sure? Yes / No
Press "Okay" to continue.
Finger RSI from Microsoft.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
Microsoft Study Says Ballmer costs $600m.
The research stuggests that one of the main factory behind the high number of injuries is because Microsoft is replacing their existing office equipment with chairs.
-Look at this spam from my inbox of my hotmale account:
Welcome to the special bonus edition of TechNet Flash featuring content specifically selected to inform and ease your Windows Vista deployment.
You here that sound? it is the sound of very useful information speaking to you!
When we released Windows Vista, security was clearly a top priority. However, one of the implications of the increased focus on security was that compatibility with Windows Vista was not where we wanted it to be at launch. Over the past eighteen months, Microsoft and our partners have made tremendous progress in compatibility, performance, and battery life. Here are updates on a few key facts:
âWindows Vista now supports more than 77,000 printers, cameras, speakers and other devices.
-OMG THAT is just like sooooo spiffy! My current OS supports everything I have too!
â More than 2,700 software programs are âoeCertified forâ or âoeWorks withâ Windows Vista-logoed; 97 of the top 100 consumer applications are compatible.
-Holy shit! All the shit I use works with the OSes I have installed as well, what a coincidence!
â 62% of small businesses said Windows Vista saves them time, and 70% said it makes them more productive, according to an independent survey.
-8% find that it DOES NOT save them time but makes them productive! LOL!!!!
â More than 140 million copies of Windows Vista have been sold, making it the fastest selling operating system in Microsoft history. Even Macs run it.
-Sold to whom? They went out and bought it on purpose huh?
â 71 percent of Windows Vista customers like it better than their last operating system.
-71% of Vista owners just switched from Windows ME? Or DOS?
âPeople familiar with Windows Vista are two to three times more likely to have a favorable impression of it.
-When I wake up in the morning I am two times more likely to smoke a cigarette before I take a shit.
âEvery 10 PCs that switch to Windows Vista is the equivalent of taking an automobile off the road, in terms of greenhouse gases.
-Wow lets hook up every PC we can find, even if they are powered off or if they are in storage, and install Vista on them and leave them on! IT WILL SAVE THE FUCKIN WORLD!! HELL YEAH!!! WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO SAVE THE WORLD!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! YEAHHHH BABY!
Dj fuQ [url="http://djfuq.org"]djfuq urges you to listen to the beats[/url] [url="http://djfuq.org"]http://djfuq.org[
If my dad complained about an ache or a pain, while working in the factory, he would have been laughed at. If he later complained about his hands hurting from typing, he likely would have gotten his a** kicked.
I doubt the injuries are going up, if anything they are probably going down. I suspect the reporting/complaining is going up because its not a factor in maintaining your manhood anymore.
Also how people react to actual pain is different now as well. My brother is older than I am, and works in a garage. A rim blew off a truck tire and took off his fingernail (down to the root) He slapped a band-aid on it and went back to work.
Eschew Obfuscation
The number of RSI cases drops to almost zero, if you disable UAC in Vista.
Hmmm.... does answering the same question over and over count as repetitive strain? If so, I think I've got RSI of the head.
----
Not to be confused with Col.
F-U-D that spells "microsoft study"! my laws!
Now that MS has declared being against repetitive stress injuries, does this mean Slashdotters will have to be in favor of them?
I can see it now, all FOSS apps, especially Open Office, will now be marketted as not only free, but the fastest and easiest way to get a repetitive stress injury. People with wrist braces will gain even MOAR geek cred- it will become a badge by which only the hardest of the hardcore FOSSies and Stallmanistas will be known.
Pah! RSI only costs the US $600 million. That's almost two orders of magnitude less than what piracy costs !!CANADA!! (ie. $30 billion... if you don't believe me Google it). Geez Louise! All those thieving nerds deserve crippling anyway.
just wank yourself off every 30 mins or so. Take a picture of Balmer into the bogs and try and shoot him between the eyes with the pink pistol.
I don't know if this is so much an issue with bad or unhealthy hardware as it is people's lack of basic fitness. I work in an IT shop, and see a lot of guys in their early to mid 20's complaining about bad wrists, elbows, shoulders, backs, etc. Some are even complaining about arthritis already. They drop serious cash on ergonomic chairs, mice and keyboards, wristbraces, everything.
:)) to spend all day slouched in a chair typing or clicking away at a terminal. Take some time to step away from the keyboard and get some exercise. My mother has worked as a typist for the last 35 years (with periods of months of 12 hour work days) and has less health problems than half the early twenty year olds in the office who spend most of their time in front of their comptuer. Why? She works outside on the weekends and gets some basic exercise. If you neglect the human body, it deteriorates. Don't be suprised that you have back and wrist problems if your butt never leaves your computer chair. You can take a few minutes a day away from your computer and work without it being counter-productive.
So what do they do once they leave work? They go home and sit in front of their home computer for another 5 hours before going to bed, coming back to work, and doing the same thing again the next day. Yet a lot of my other coworkers (ranging in age from 20's to 40's) who regularly exercise seem to be void of these problems.
I try to make it a point to at least step out for a short lunch and spend some time at home in the evenings doing something other than sitting on the couch or in front of the PC. The human body is not designed (or has evolved, whatever your point of view is
It's not your bad keyboard or small monitor's fault you can't take basic care of yourself.
In an effort to conform with internet communication standards, please note that the above comment is 100% biased opinion
I work for UPS having to lug around packages all day. I do not have any work related injuries or show any signs of back problems, or anything. UPS takes a very active initiative to make sure everyone understands how to properly do their job with safety always being behind every action. No matter what you do, even if you have your @ss planted in front of a computer all day, be aware of the way you sit in your chair (no slouching!), and know that any repetitive action will eventually be damaging if you don't take proper steps to avoid injury.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
$600 million? I could buy 3, maybe 4 copies of Vista Ultimate with that.
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of my employer, my spouse, my children, or my cats.
Microsoft's three-key keyboard has been shown to significantly reduce BSOD-related injuries. It's not exactly a chording keyboard though...
I suspect that one of the major causes of RSI among telecommuters is reputation farming in WoW.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Once I started doing Aikido wrist exercises as part of my martials arts warmups I haven't had any problems with my wrists since. I strongly recommend them.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
And that is why people should use dvorak.
The problem is that it's not a good keyboard design. If we stick to a (roughly) flat board with buttons on it, you first of all want more space between the hands, since that's how you hold them naturally.
I'll tell you up front, I think the Microsoft ergo keyboards are better than standard ones.
The slight angle of the two halves lets the two halves line up more naturally with the way I want to hold my hands. And they do have some space between the hands.
Once I stressed my shoulder, and I found that typing on a standard keyboard gave me searing pain after a few minutes. I tried the (very first model of) Microsoft ergo keyboard and found that I could type for hours without the searing pain. This made an immediate believer out of me.
Not all their keyboards are good, but the basic design of their ergo keyboards is sound. Maybe there is something even better out there, but nothing I have tried seems like a real improvement.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
- Uninstall Vista from new PC
- Install XP and relevant patches on new PC
. . . just in order to have systems their users can boot and accomplish a task on during 8 hours at work.If companies would invest in better quality chairs, it would help reduce health care costs quite a bit.
I have bad back problems now because the past few companies I worked for had those terrible "ikea" type chairs. They look nice and all, but really hurt after sitting at them for a few hours.
So now, I am on a quest to buy one of those really crazy chairs. The bad news is, I gotta pay out of pocket because my employers are too cheap to purchase them. Yet, they complain about the high cost of our health care and encourage the employees to see the doctor less.
http://www.egoscue.com/ Egoscue solves these kind of problems. Check it out! Simple exercises to make you not hurt!
Let's see: $600M for 60M people in the UK, of which say 60% or 36M are of working age. Let's say 30M of these actually work. Divide 600M by 30M, and I get yearly costs due to RSI of $20 for each person with a job.
Those costs warrant a one-time investment of say about $100 to _completely_ get rid of the risk of getting RSI. I doubt that anybody can guarantee that.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Funny, I thought Linux was costing the software industry something like $1.6B. But of course, they don't mind RSI so much, they can keep selling you ergonomic keyboards...so they don't mind people wasting money, as long as they get their cut?
Over $60 billion in lost productivity using Windows.
Tell that to women in Mississippi where they get fired if they skin and process less than 23 catfish a minute. The people in cookie plants that that put together one cookie every second. Chicken cutting? About one every minute. It's the staggering pace of blue collar workers that should be the real problem to fix in ergonomics, not office workers with microsoft keyboards. There aren't too many 20 year-olds in offices with wrists of 60 year-olds.