Slashdot Mirror
Social Networking Sites Becoming Useful For Lawyers
chareverie writes "With how the internet has become, social networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace have become a tool for crime solvers, employers, and now, lawyers. Two weeks after Joshua Lipton was charged in a drunk driving case, the college junior attended a Halloween party dressed as a prisoner, with the words 'jail bird' on his costume. Not surprisingly, his prosecutor was able to obtain photos of him at the party that were posted on Facebook, and claimed he was an 'unrepentant partier who lived it up while his victim recovered in the hospital.' The photos were presented in a slideshow, with one of them showing Lipton holding a can of Red Bull in one hand, and an arm draped around a girl bearing sorority letters. The judge agreed with the prosecutor, and changed Lipton's sentence to two years in prison. The article also cites other instances of people getting harsher sentences from pictures of them posted online."
The laws should be defined more explicitly, so that the same punishment for the same crime can be applied.
People with certain personalities, and as we know certain races, get effected disproportionally because the law gives too much flexibility in determining the severity of the punishment.
title should be "useful for prosecutors". while prosecutors are "lawyers", this article and topic is far more specific.
https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/DPS_WEB/Sor/index.aspx?PageIndex=Display&SID=06369391
... of douchebaggery.
Last week some 18 year-old punk was speeding and hit two women who were in town from St. Louis to see the Cardinals play the Phillies. One of them later died.
The cops found his MySpace page, and it's apparently full of pics of him drinking and smoking pot, and the article even says he used a mugshot from a prior arrest as his default photo. The cops got wind of it and snagged his computer and other stuff from his house with a search warrant, and they'll probably use it to stave off any attempt at the "but he's a good boy who just made a mistake" defense.
After reading the article, I am completely disgusted... especially with his parents, under whose noses it seems much of his bad behavior has been going on. Call me old-fashioned, but I think parents should try to raise their kids to, you know, not be a colossal fuckup.
The best part, IMHO, is that for all his "I'm just Mr. Buster Badass" posturing on his MySpace page, he is apparently throwing up in jail because he's so scared (insert derisive Nelson Muntz laugh here).
~Philly
This is correct use of technology- hands down, a winning proposition.
Now, it may not be so when prosecutors dredge up photos unrelated to, older, than, or from a different person with the same name, so this only argues for more transparent ways for hosts, services, and users to find unshakeable ways to authenticate what happens under their aegis. opt-in automatic encrypted transmission watermarks, anyone?
responsibility, what a concept!
(or learn 2 anon, use 7 proxies, etc)
I don't understand the problem here either. This is two "OMG Privacy" stories that have come up in the last few days. This isn't "OMG Privacy". This is quit being a fucking moron and advertising your private life to 3rd parties or the world. In each of the three cases I am fucking glad they found those pictures. Those pieces of shit deserve to be rotting in prison instead of out partying after that crap. In case you skip the article it talkes about 3 cases of DUI, in 2 of which people died and the third almost died. Then these pieces of human filth went out partying and posted pictures showing exactly how seriously they took the fact that they went out driving drunk and murdered someone. I am personally very happy these fuckwits posted these pictures and the prosecution found them. In at least two of the cases mentioned here the bastard was probably going to get probation.
So...let me put it this way. If you are a worthless dumbass criminal making life worse for other people PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post pictures of yourself doing illegal things online. Record yourself talking about the crime and make it an mp3. Take videos of you beating hobos or other nonsense and put them on youtube. I would much rather a society where the criminals effectively go to the authority and say "Hi, I'm a fucking moron criminal asshole, please arrest me!" than the world where the cops have to wiretap, and search, and investigate. So, please, in the interest of keeping our society free, go post your stupidity online, make it easy to find, that way the authority can leave the rest of us the fuck alone since we aren't doing anything wrong.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
The amount of true remorse that a defendant feels and expresses can and should be used when determining sentencing. It's called a 'mitigating circumstance.'
I don't know about preventing prosecutors from using photos. However . . . to deter employers from viewing and abusing social networking pages, employees might post legal terms of service under which employers agree to scram. This idea should not be taken as legal advice for anyone, just fodder for public discussion. --Ben http://hack-igations.blogspot.com/2007/11/privacy-advocates-such-as-nyu-professor.html
Benjamin Wright, Dallas, Texas, benjaminwright.us
So what we have is a guy who was known for drinking alcoholic beverages, now drinks non-alcoholic Red Bull instead. Any lawyer worth his or her fee, would've pointed out this evidenced change in behaviour as a sign that the subject no longer drank, and therefore should have a reduced sentence.
It's all down to the interpretation.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
until such time as the preponderance of judges and attorneys can be embarrassed by archival pictures/movies on the Internet.
#!
[CITATION NEEDED]
Two years minus maybe 40% off for good behavior is a mere 438 days. Let's say Drool Bucket slaps his forehead and cries "Idiot!" 20 times each day (in between rapes). This is well under nine thousand forehead slaps. IT... COULD... WORK!! (file under "Forrest Gump Area of the Intelligence Curve" or "Repeatedly Learning Your Lessons the Hard Way".)
Did I get that right? He went to court, got away with a rather mild verdict, then the prosecutor showed that he is "partying" and this is grounds for a more serious conviction?
Hello? Did partying now become some sort of grounds for a harsher verdict? What should he have done? Mourn and weep for at least 2 years or whatever the court deems "appropriate"?
This is sick, people. This means you're not only judged for what you do but also for what you feel.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I work as an Orientation Leader at my college; familiarizing incoming freshman with the campus and what it's like to be a college student, etc. One of the things we warn them about is to not put anything on facebook that they wouldn't want their family to see. Of course, they don't listen and we've had RAs write kids up for things they've done just because the RA saw pictures of it posted on facebook.
When kids get their room assignments, they instantly check their roommates out on facebook. Every now and then we hear stories that even before they've met the roommate, parents ask for a new one because the roommate's facebook page makes them worry the kid might be gay.
This sig is false.
Last I checked, Red Bull was NOT an alcoholic beverage. Had he been photographed drinking alcohol I could understand the increased sentence.
Is that you, Josh?
hahaha watch the cornhole, luser.
I guess some people still can't get in through their skulls that the internet isn't some sort of silly game. If you post something, anyone has access to it, including law enforcement. It's like that woman who tried to take out a hit on someone via Craigslist a while back. What the hell is going through these people's minds?
It's shit like this that makes me want to become a defense lawyer. Fuck this prosecutor. The case needs to stand on what happened, not on the defendant's sense of humor.
I can totally see myself making light of something terrible like that. It's a coping strategy. It doesn't mean that I don't feel remorse, but what the hell? Am I supposed to sit around for the rest of my life feeling sorry? Whose business is it but my own how I handle things emotionally? It would be one thing if the guy then got in a car and drove drunk after that Halloween party, but that's not what he did. He went to the party, and he wore a costume the jackass DA didn't like.
DAs are vermin, along with the cops. You can't incentivize throwing people in jail and have a working society. The US has 1% of its population behind bars because of this kind of theatrical bullshit.
However, this is one of the problems with more photos being taken these days. You do anything, and someone has a picture of it. All of us are cretins; we just don't realize it until we see the pics.
U need to use a fake identity & gender like Heroine. Anything U say will be used against U, especially if U store your entire life on the Goog network.
"If it shows up under your name you own it," he said, "and you better understand that people look for that stuff."
Which is entirely the problem. I don't have a MySpace page, but my real name (and variations of initials thereof) shows up on MySpace. A negligent, or perhaps merely aggressive, prosecutor might use the unsavory content - posted by others, under a false name - against me should I ever be charged with a crime.
The problem, as I see it, is the public at large is not necessarily aware that anyone can register anyone else's name on a social networking site. Take my online identity, for example. Though I don't think there's anyone at ./ who would mistake me for the Microsoft billionaire, I'm not so sure about the public at large. (In fact, I chose the moniker to suggest that I was the opposite of Gates, but I'm not sure that's apparent). Many of these people choose "normal" sounding first and last names for their online identity, oblivious to the fact that there are likely many people in the world with the same name in meatspace.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
TFA said that defense counsel also uses social-network postings to discredit prosecution witnesses. This blade cuts both ways. Imagine what fun OJ's lawyers could have had if Mark Fuhrman had a facebook page.
...and I think this case is tragic. But why fudge up two lives?
I actually read the article to see if it was as bad as it sounded... and yes it is.
First of all, he was drinking Red Bull, which is non-alcoholic, and while he was at a party I'd be thinking he'd be excited to be alive. Just me though.
The other cases in the article are just as bad. A lady at a party drinking wine after a car accident? Wine just screams alcoholic!
The prosecution is saying she should be in AA? They know that she's an Alcoholic and didn't just make a bad choice? She's no longer aloud to drink anymore because of a bad choice? AA doesn't teach you to act correctly when you drink, it tried to get you to stop drinking completely
And to say "she was doing nothing but having a good time" is insane. Obviously she's been going from party to party non-stop for the past X months. How do you know she WASN'T going to AA? Just because you have a picture of something less than appealing doesn't mean you have to whole story.
I have to imagine they'd have more than that for a Judge to up the sentence to two years. Not to say I don't think they deserved it but expecting people to become inhuman because of an accident is just plain stupid. A guy drinking red bull is a good example of just how RANDOM these pictures can be and yet they are grounds for upping a sentence? give me a break.
I think most people should search the net for the potential child's name before committing to it, and like wise the govt dept should warn you if your childs new name might be in conflict with major felons and to avoid it at all costs , no matter if its wanted.
Choose weird names, like movie stars do, Moonshine,Coke,Lushchild.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Funny thing about the internet, it's not just other people's bad judgement that lives on forever but yours too. I wonder what your kids will think when they read this - after you been lecturing them on their behaviour.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Have George Bush on your friends list.
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
If people feel compelled to stick photos and information about themselves and their possibly illegal and/or immoral activities on a public website of the friggin' Internet, I have not an ounce of sympathy for them. If you want to do things that may get you in trouble with the law, wreck your marriage, engender a lawsuit, get fired from your job, etc., it doesn't take a genius to understand that it might not be a great idea to advertise those activities to the world...
"Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket." -- Eric Hoffer
Those studies you cite fail to control for the one factor that the parent explicitly listed as crucial for making fair comparisons - socio-economic background. Yes, it's true that many more blacks than whites go to jail - but this isn't necessarily because they have black skin. It's just as easy to believe that more blacks go to jail not because of their black skin, but because of their lack of money and the pursuant inability to afford a decent legal defense. These studies show a sentencing disparity certainly, but they aren't detailed enough to prove that racial, rather than economic, factors are responsible for that disparity.
This is sick, people. This means you're not only judged for what you do but also for what you feel.
Ummm, you realize that this isn't a new thing, right? The facebook part might be, but many lawyers have often pushed for lenience in cases where clients have shown true remorse for their actions, and vise-versa for the prosecutors against those who don't.
Feeling sad for your actions and being willing to change is part of the reformation process, which is part of what the justice system is about. A kid that's partying it up 2 weeks after killing somebody isn't feeling remorse, and isn't so likely to reform after a slap-on-the-wrist or token sentencing.
If you think posting photos of yourself vomiting over the cat on MyFace/SpaceBook is a good idea, don't whine if your future employer disagrees with you.
(Perhaps you know you're getting old when creating a "Who gives a shit?" macro is a useful time-saving device.)
Like his lawyer didn't dress him up and tried to pass him off as a clean living kid who just had a terrible accident happen to him while the angels are crying.
As long as the defence is allowed to lie about their clients attitude the prosecution should be allowed to use the truth to tear those lies down.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
From now on, only NORMAL pictures You will not see any SMILE in my pictures online Global Government wants us castrated huh? Fuck it's his right to party - Like any healthy human being Drowning in sorrow = Mind Raping
I'm too old to verify this but recently on the news I heard that drinks such as Red Bull are being mixed with alcoholic beverages. It was pointed out that this is very dangerous. The point is that drinking something like Red Bull doesn't exclude the consumption of alcohol and sometimes doing so simultaneously.
Good. You act like a dildo, you reap the consequences.
Chances are, if said dildo was seen in a drunken stupor, with said whore under arm with sorority letters, etc..... This wasn't his first time.
Seems said Dildo could use a lesson in how to be a bit more discreet, change his partying habits, and said dildo doesn't need to be so "popular".
Dumbass kids today. "I should be able to do whatever I want, with no repurcussions. You shouldn't be able to use anything against me I post in public to attempt to elevate my reputation:.
Welcome to reality, shithead. You make yourself out to look like a drunk, act like a drunk, post public pictures of you being drunk in public, and then act surprised someone calls you a "DRUNK".
Kid should have gotten twice the sentence he did.
YMMV, IANAL, ROFL, etc.
--Toll_Free
It's kinda sad that some people here say "if he put it on facebook its his own fault" but most people (aka non-nerds) have no idea why privacy is important at all.
Any information you put online about yourself is a invitation to hurt you in some way or another, be it finacially through identity theft or because the first thing HR does when they see your job application is type your name into google, or physically like the classic myspace-children-predator type ...
The point of this article should be "yet another way to get fucked for people with no idea about privacy", not "blah who cares, he's a idiot anyways"
Frankly, I'd rather elect someone who openly admits to behavior that may be in violation of law than someone who obsessively hides from the reality of his or her past. Both Nixon and GW Bush come to mind here.
And I wonder about Senator McCain with respect to admissions. Of course he did admit to wrongdoing with respect to the Savings and Loan scandals as well as other issues of favoritism. I have met Senator McCain and think he's a good man. Haven't met Senator Obama but I have read the thoughts of his he put into his books. Seems like an upstanding American patriot who would strive to do the right thing for America.
But what I cannot believe is that Senator McCain, after all he went through, did not do drugs and did not drink to excess. I lived across the street from a Vietnam veteran who was not imprisoned by the NVA and there were not enough drugs and there was not enough alcohol in the world for him after what he experienced as a draftee. I lived up the street from another who came back a paraplegic, and he regularly drank to excess.
Fact is, what you put on the Internet about yourself is public. So if you don't want someone to take advantage of you or to disparage your character, don't post anything that might be taken wrong. This lawyer was doing what all lawyers do in a very creative (for lawyers) way: He was raising questions as to the man's character before a jury so that the jury would disregard any testimony from him or from anyone who said he had a good character.
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
"The best part is why have Facebook and MySpace so even those of us without the brainpower to use even the simplest of markup can easily show off for the entire world what kinda of asshats we can be when we really try."
I still don't get why people even use facebook (or any social sites). Near as I can tell, it's a vestige of the adolescent misconception that you are the center of the universe and everything you do is interesting and important.
Perhaps that's not fair. It persists well into adulthood as well.
The fact that everything people do and say online lives forever and will affect you for the rest of your life seems to have not sunk in with many people. I'm glad my adolescence and early adulthood are long gone and forgotten by everyone. I can't imagine trying to explain what I did 30+ years later when I was in my mid teens.
I'm assuming this whole thing is like the hula hoop. Seemed like a good idea for a while, and then we threw them out in the late 60's.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
wikifag detected
Personal injury firms are not just using myspace/facebook etc. to check witnesses, as the parent noted, but the conduct of the person suing.
It's hard to claim you are permanently disabled from working when your facebook claims you've just finished a marathon or a roofing job or that your chronic fatigue is due to the fact that you're off your head from pot 24/7
Sometimes, people fuck up. Maybe you always lived a good life, but you just screwed up one night, and that screw up had real serious consequences (like someone died). However, that isn't necessairily reason to throw the book at you. If you show real remorse for what you've done and try to make it right in what ways you can, well then the courts can and should take that in to consideration. However the corollary to that is if it is clear that you don't care about the harm your actions have caused and indeed continue on with the behaviour that cause the problem, well then the courts need to MAKE you care with a stiff sentence.
Sentencing should be highly discretionary. Some people are really good people who just screw up, and once they do don't really need any additional punishment. The courts should be allowed to recognize that, and not punish them just for the sake of punishing them. However some people are just self centred assholes who will continue to cause harm to others until stopped. The courts should be allowed to punish them harshly, to give them a reason to keep their behaviour in line in the future.
Why it's not always a good idea to post pictures of yourself online or talk about personal things in great detail.
Ave Molech Setting
Clearly there is a case that he was just fighting for his right to party.
~Mike D
The US criminal justice system has several purposes: deterrence (specific and general), punishment, retribution, rehabilitation (incapacitation serves as all four, theoretically). US laws were originally founded in the Judeo-Christian tradition of English common law, which includes the idea of an eye for an eye.
The First Amendment came 170 years or so later to North America than did English common law.
I think if you asked any judge if punishment were part of his sentencing (which is called the "penalty phase" in many jurisdictions), he'd say you are quite wrong.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
I lol every time that somthing like this comes up. All these idiots putting their private lives up for the public scrutiny of prospective employers, business partners, invistigators, prosecuters and anyone else who might want to use your personal life against you.
I try where possible to keep my IRL and OTI presences unlinked.
I only buy pepper spray that's been tested on anti-vivisectionists.
Yes, the world is run by supreme asshats, so let's by no means punish the garden variety asshats when they hurt people and continue to be asshats. Brilliant solution there, sparky.
...photos of myself walking old ladies across the street and rescuing babies from burning buildings. That should acquit me from any future crimes.
By no means am I supporting the idea of prosecutors or defense attorneys using social networking sites to obtain proof of guilt or innocence. Multiple arguments be applied to the subject, such as the photos are faked, I didnt post them, etc. But ultimately, it comes down to lack of common sense. Some of the users on social networking sites post photos of themselves doing things they would not normally be proud to share with the general public they deal with day to day. Yet, the post the photos for millions of random users to see. If you wouldnt run thru a courtyard drunk and naked with tighty whities on your head in front of your mom, maybe you shouldnt post it for the world to see on myspace, eh? It takes years of practice to master, but, eventually, it is possible to teach oneself to think before you act.
BrickerEnterprises.Com - Innovation at work
These photos could have been posted by anybody. I've even looked at random profiles of people I don't even know and found photos with me in them. It's quite difficult to put a stop to that.
When you think of this as a victory, just keep in mind most people come out of prison far from rehabilitated; they come out ready to make your life, as a law-abiding citizen, a living hell. Your tax dollars wasted, your entire infrastructure crumbling, this is just another destroyed soul; an individual that will never regain stability, education, or employment. A true American criminal. Just like the victim, his life is screwed forever. Eye for an eye? I'm surprised Americans are at war with radical Islam with values like this! You guys would fit right in over there! Our prison system is simply a place for criminal minds to grow, and gangs to fill their ranks quicker than could be possible anywhere else. It is full of repeat offenders who lose their ability to function in the outside world, it's the same death sentence every time. Or at least, a 'completely wasted life sentence.'
Thank you, American justice system, we will soon have another bitter criminal lurking in the darkness. We're all doomed.
In general I don't have a problem of using extra sources of information like Facebook. What I find disturbing about this is that the judge's decision was influenced, even according to the judge, by photos that someone else posted to facebook. From what I can tell that photographer was never cross-examined to establish the actual context of the photograph. For all we know, someone who didn't like the guy might have coerced him into a non-representative situation for a moment so they could snap the photo to put on Facebook, then tag him in the photo to make it easy for any prosecuting lawyer to stumble upon.
Was he dragged to a party by friends to take his mind of things after 2 weeks of hell? Who else was there? Were they all close friends, and were they the sorts of people who'd try to embarrass him for his mistake? Well I hope the courts investigated that properly. Perhaps he did deserve what he got in this case, but if it's as easy to influence a judge as this article implies, it concerns me.
"It is called being social"
Parent poster's age indicates that it's a generational thing. OTOH Sitting on a computer typing about your life is about as far from social as you can get. Texting your friends on a phone is about as anti-social as you can get. Playing xbox360 online is not being social. It's anti-social.
Spending time with friends and family in person talking is being social. Sitting around a campfire having a beer is being social. Typing into a facebook about silly teenage angst is as much "being social" as playing a video game about skiing and then claiming you're exhausted from being on the slopes all day.
"If someone is trying to judge you for something that happened 30 years ago when you were a teenager, they either have some other motive (perhaps you don't belong to their "one true religion") or they are a psychopath."
The whole point of the article is that people put stuff on these website and it has consequences. You're probably very young and don't understand that if you do something really stupid (steal a car, get arrested for being drunk) and you publicize it, it will affect getting that big job 20 years from now. Right now, many kids put pictures of themselves in compromising positions (naked, drunk, and stupid.... no way to go through life). I can only imagine 20 years from now when it gets posted on the company bulletin board.
Well, at least then, people will be plenty social about it!
Jeremy Bentham would be proud of how the prison is now the size of your life.
How were the photos even relevant? A man does a bit of whistling by the graveyard (and is showing holding a can of Red Bull, which last I checked has no alcohol), and this is reason for harsher sentencing? Going to a Halloween party is sign that one is an unrepentant partier?
Oh, and to Mr. Perlin -- not everyone who drives drunk is an alcoholic. It's quite possible to do stupid things involving alcohol without being an alcoholic.
Apparently when he came back, McCain found comfort with women not drugs or alcohol.
I see your last name is "klein". That confirms your identity.
Most fucking Jew fag want to be a lawyer so they can screw up the system. No wonder now 90% of the lawyers are kikes.
This guy deserve everything going his way. And we don't need any Jew fags to defend them.
I can see someone in the public not admitting to doing drugs or something illegal. There are many minor children who could take that as a hint of "so and so did it, look at them". Those of us who did do drugs knows at least one burnout who wastes a lot of their life and most likely one person or more who lost their life to drugs. It isn't really something you want juveniles to think is ok despite others telling them it isn't. They will come to whatever conclusion without president X's admissions or claims of it doesn't hold you back.
People in public view are often role models to some degree and should think about the images they impart on the youths. Most areas have public intoxication and decency laws for much the same reasons. It may be old prudy church bitches calling for them, but the reasons are the same.
So at least consider the idea that someone might not want to admit to any wrong doing that there is no chance of getting busted for because of the impressions it might leave on younger audiences. I think Bush's answer to the question was simply not to answer it and claim something along the lines of the question not being appropriate.
The hard part of this is that it's not just what you put on the net about yourself. The Red Bull picture from the article was posted by someone else. It showed up on the defendant's Facebook page because it was tagged with his name, not because he posted it.
This is slashdot. What is this "drinking to excess" you speak of ...
You are the one who must be young. Yes, I know it may affect getting a job, but the employers who would screen you out because of something "immoral" you did as a teenager are control freaks who will burn you out. Professionals do business to get work done, not play kindergarten games of who did what. They only look at your history to find things relevant to the job. I suppose you think it is okay for them to tell you which church to attend and where to live. You may make a little more money, but the costs of dealing with them will more than overrun the value of the extra cash. I'd rather not work for someone who thinks behaving like the Taliban is acceptable. There are religions which ban coffee, tea, even soda. Why should I have to obey all of their tenets?
In a couple of years when you have gone through a few divorces and have stress related health problems, among other things, you will know what I am talking about. And as for being social, you don't know what that is. Just because you don't see a person doesn't mean you don't have a connection. I'm sure plenty of people have said the same things about the telephone and letters.
What would they think?