Dell Begins Selling Inspiron Mini 9

mocoloco writes "A week after the rumored date, Dell has begun selling their entry into the netbook/subnotebook/UMPC market, the Inspiron Mini 9. The base system for $349 includes Ubuntu 8.04 "with custom Dell interface", 512MB RAM, and a 4GB SSD. There are options with XP, one that includes an 8GB drive and a $40 instant savings, another with a 16GB drive and 1GB RAM that has a $55 instant savings. Curiously the Ubuntu systems are a pre-order at this point, to be shipped within 15 days. Also, no Red option yet."

Comments

Not in Canada

[VEGETA_GT]

Like normal its not on the Canadian site. Usually launches in the Us of product is on the same day in Canada but Dell dose not give us Canadians as many options for pc/laptops as they do to the US. HP also has a limited website for product configuration/product compared to the US. Considering how closely tied we are and how most company release Canada/us same time this would be in Canada to.

Re:Not in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

You should learn to proofread. You're giving us Canadians a bad name, therefore Dell won't sell their new products to us.

Re:Not in Canada

[morgan_greywolf]

Munitions export laws. You guys are poised to attack us. Look, you've even amassed all your population along our border. And you don't even pronounce the letter 'o' correctly in 'about'. And don't even get me started on about the beer....

Re:Not in Canada

[Imagix]

If we started you on the beer, you'd be so drunk so fast....

Re:Not in Canada

[KillerBob]

Like normal its not on the Canadian site. Usually launches in the Us of product is on the same day in Canada but Dell dose not give us Canadians as many options for pc/laptops as they do to the US. HP also has a limited website for product configuration/product compared to the US. Considering how closely tied we are and how most company release Canada/us same time this would be in Canada to.

Historically, the reason that Dell hasn't released products in Canada at the same time as the US is because they need to sell it in French as well as English. That means they have to translate the manuals, and that they need to provide French-language technical support. Doing otherwise would open themselves to a lawsuit for discrimination. They don't have French tech. support for *any* of their Linux offerings, which is what explains this one. That's what prevented the Insprion N-series Linux-based systems, as well as the XPS One from being released in Canada.

Re:Not in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point. I probably wouldn't have thought of that even. It's just another reason why having mandatory second languages hurts companies and the consumer.

Re:Not in Canada

[MoonBuggy]

You'll be glad to know we've got it available in the UK. Only £299 ($528 at today's rates) for the base model. Thanks Dell.

And, just because I know it'll come up: UK VAT is 17.5%. (528/100)*82.5=$435.60 so pre-tax we're paying just under $100 premium for absolutely nothing. The eee and the Aspire one, on the other hand, are about the same price when tax is figured. The MSI Wind is similarly inflated.

I was actually waiting to see what Dell's offering was like before going out and getting a mini laptop. Looks like it's an eee for me now.

Re:Not in Canada

[VEGETA_GT]

Generically speaking the French translation of manuals is not a long process, so I will not give them that point, that's a excuse at best. But no french tech support is a good one but also a sad point, how hard it it to find bilingual people or pure french speaking tech support people for Linux. Its Sad dell will not have that on the go by now as its not like this whole linux thing is new and again the laptop dose come with xp options why not just have that part here.

Re:Not in Canada

[wattrlz]

Yes, it's weapons-grade beer. You've also stocked up most of this continent's oil too... hmmm.

Re:Not in Canada

[MoonBuggy]

Hate to reply to myself, but it would appear that I'm mistaken.

I was comparing the UK and US pages and simply read "From $349" and "From £299" in the same place on the equivalent pages, assuming they were the same model. Turns out the UK don't have the choice of the low-spec one yet, so I was inadvertently using the price from the 16GB/1GB RAM model - looks like a decent deal after all. Windows only, by the look, but at least it should be easy enough to wipe and replace; possibly even worth trying for a refund on the cost of the license.

I'll still be waiting until they actually ship to see how it compares to the eee 901, which is slightly cheaper and comes with an extra 4GB of disc space (although if that SSD in the Dell is a single, high speed unit unlike the eee's two-part one it could be well worth the trade off) but I'm actually very glad to see that Dell aren't going down the usual road of ripping off the Brits, and I commend them (and Asus and Acer) for that.

Re:Not in Canada

[spazdor]

and the consumer.
[citation needed]

Re:Not in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked for a software localization company and we translated manuals for lots of companies. The deadlines on those projects were usually measured in months. You don't just have one person translate it it as they go and then have someone proof-read it and send it to print. There's a lot of mundane crap involved going back and forth between the client and translator.

Also, I've had the misfortune to work in tech support call centers as well and they're always looking for bi-lingual people, there's usually only a few among hundreds in on the floor at any given time. I assume there's just a lot less of them working in that field just as there are a lot less of them out there in society. Also, it may be a bit harder to find a bi-lingual person willing to work for peanuts if they have technical skills.

Re:Not in Canada

[vux984]

Good point. I probably wouldn't have thought of that even. It's just another reason why having mandatory second languages hurts companies and the consumer.

Lots of companies dealing in Canada don't have french support. Even many Canadian companies don't. Head over to to the West Coast (French is primarily spoken in Quebec eastwards, and dwindles the farther west you go.) By the time you reach Vancouver the odds of a small business having any one that speaks french above a pre-school level is pretty low.

Sure their products still have bilingual labels and instruction booklets and they'll happily ship them to Quebec, but that's about the extent of it, and its not expensive to have a translator write those for you. Point is, lots of Canadian websites and companies are english only.

Dell does have to provide french language manuals and labelling with their products which is a minor burden, but they do not have to provide french language support.

They offer french support not for regulatory reasons, but for competitive reasons, to appeal to french speaking Canadian, and also to make them eligible to sell to large Canadian enterprises and government entities that require bilingual support for practical reasons -- they want to buy computers from a company that provides support in the same languages that their employees speak.

Because Dell chooses to offer support in French, its in the interest of customer support simplicity to offer it consistently across all their products, not just some of them.

Re:Not in Canada

[catxk]

Last time I was in India, I only met one guy who spoke French. So if it's a sad point, then I guess cost minimizing schemes are sad by default. (Incidentally, this one guy had studied French only to increase his competence at the call center where he worked. But as I said, he was the only one.)

Re:Not in Canada

[KillerBob]

Their French-language support is currently done by an outsource in Montreal, but they're expecting to have a call centre in Morocco online by March. At that point, they could very well start selling Linux products with French support. For now, though, it doesn't make good economic sense to train up a bunch of contractors who won't be working for the company 6 months down the road.

You're right, though. They don't speak French in India... that didn't stop Carly Fiorina from moving my job there back when I worked for Compaq, though. :P

Re:Not in Canada

[oldhack]

Is this the MSG vegeta?

Re:Not in Canada

[Gilmoure]

Dell probably figures the potential market of Linux in Canada isn't worth the cost to hire an intern and run their manuals through an Engrish translation tool.

Re:Not in Canada

[Gilmoure]

What about bilingual English/Klingon? Should be a fair number of them.

Re:Not in Canada

[No2Gates]

Doug
I believe there will be no charge on this two-four of beer, thank you.

Attendant
Excuse me?

Doug
Ok, uh, we found this mouse in a bottle of Elsinore beer that we bought
at your beer store, eh? And we heard that when that happens you get
your beer free.

Bob
It's in the Canadian Criminal Code, eh. Like there's legal precedence
set in cases in law, eh?

Doug
So, like give us our free beer.

Re:Not in Canada

[chris_mahan]

I speak French (native, lived there (France, not Canada) for 17 years.

I came to the US in 1985, and learned the computer stuff here. I am a programmer for a fortune 200.

I know nothing of french computer terminology. I don't even know how to say modem in French.

So, not only does the person need to know how to speak french, they also need to know the French technical terms.

(how do you say: "install a device driver"?)

Re:Not in Canada

[Jorophose]

And yet they'll release to France next, right?

That's what they did for ubuntu systems, at least. =/

Re:Not in Canada

[PitaBred]

Yeah. OK, well, uh, we found, uh, this mouse in a bottle of YOUR BEER, eh. Like, we was at a party and, uh, a friend of ours - a COP - had some, and HE PUKED. And he said, uh, come here and get free beer or, uh, he'll press charges

Re:Not in Canada

[PitaBred]

Not having access to the same things as the rest of the world (or at least the US) isn't enough of a citation for consumers being harmed? Are you that stupid naturally, or does it take work?

Re:Not in Canada

[spazdor]

I'd be just as pissed off if I lived in Quebec, and was sold a product only to find out later that I'd have to learn English to get any phone support for it.

As a consumer, I would call that "bad for me".

Re:Not in Canada

[vux984]

I suggest you check out:

http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=fr&s=dhs

Re:Not in Canada

[sasha328]

That means they have to translate the manuals, and that they need to provide French-language technical support.

I'm sorry, but this is such a lame excuse. I have worked with translation agencies for technical manuals. A single skilled translator can do a full 100 page manual in a week. Considering how "hardware" doesn't change by any significant stretch of the imagination to make the translation one did for one model completely different to another model meaning that the translations will be re-hashed manuals anyway.
As for support: wouldn't they already have a support centre covering the frensh speaking world (there a lot outside of Quebec)?
I'm not Canadian, and I don't work for Dell. I don't know why they'd not release a product in Canada at the same time they do in the US, but it's not a language issue.

Re:Not in Canada

[ColdWetDog]

French support for Dell shouldn't be much of an issue:

"reboot your PC" - "rechargez votre PC"

"reinstall the operating system" - "réinstallez le du système d'exploitation"

I've got most of the work already done!

Re:Not in Canada

[PitaBred]

If it's in English only (site, product, everything), and you only spoke French, do you really think it'd be hard to figure that out?

Re:Not in Canada

[dylan_-]

And, just because I know it'll come up: UK VAT is 17.5%. (528/100)*82.5=$435.60 so pre-tax we're paying just under $100 premium for absolutely nothing.

That's not how you actually calculate the price before VAT.

Think of the pre-tax price as 100% and then you add 17.5% to get 117.5% for price+VAT.

Another way of thinking of this is that you multiply your 100% by 1.175 to get 117.5%.

i.e. price_before_vat * 1.175 = price_including_vat

So, price_including_vat / 1.175 = price_before_vat

Therefore $528/1.175 = $449* is the correct pre-tax figure.

*(I'm sure the exchange rate isn't accurate enough for cents!)

Re:Not in Canada

[mollymoo]

I agree, shocking Canadian grammar - not a single "eh" to be seen.

Re:Not in Canada

[bsDaemon]

How does a reference to "Strange Brew" get marked insightful?

Re:Not in Canada

[billcopc]

Who cares about French outside of Quebec ? Sure, it would suck for Quebecers but somehow I don't think they would care that much in the first place. They're certainly not anywhere near the front of the technology curve, their strengths lie elsewhere.

Me, I'm in perfectly English-speaking Ontario, and I'd like a unilingual Inspiron N, thank you.

Re:Not in Canada

[Brain Damaged Bogan]

It also seems that they won't be releasing the Linux version in Australia: http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=au&cs=audhs1&l=en&s=dhs
so far no netbook released in aus has come in with the Linux version... I almost found an MSI Wind the other day, but they said there were "delays" in getting the Linux version. I want choice dammit!

Re:Not in Canada

[billcopc]

Big disclaimer: French is (or was) my first language. I live 100% in English, 'cept when I visit long-time friends or family.

As an ex-Quebecer, I have absolutely no pity for unilingual French speakers. English is the de facto language of business and of the world. Chinese people speak English. Indian people speak English. Dutch people speak English. Hell, Chinese people IN QUEBEC speak French and English. So why the hell do less than half of all Quebecers speak any English ? I'll be quite frank: if they're too dumb to learn English, they're too dumb for me to give a damn. I make one very narrow exception, and that's for people who didn't have English classes in school at the time - that was a while ago!

Now don't get me wrong, I think French is a lovely, expressive, intelligent language, and I would never want it to vanish. Even our cussing is artful and rich! But less than two percent of the whole world speaks French, and the great majority of them live in France, about 90% of all French speakers, to be exact. There are roughly twice as many French speakers in France as there are Canadians in Canada! So really, why does our so-called Government force every single business to do backflips for this tiny demographic sliver of society ?

I don't know of any other non-religious nation that is so anal about language. Do English people in Japan whine to the government about not being about to read anything on the goddamned menus ? No.

Re:Not in Canada

[Free the Cowards]

I'd call that stupid for you, for not having done your research in advance.

Please explain, how is it worse for you to have a product available in a language that you do not speak than it is to not have that product available at all?

Re:Not in Canada

[Mista2]

So why can I not buy the 16GB model with ubuntu? surely that would save $100 on the OS license? Maybey after buying it I could return the Windows disks for a refund as I didn't accept the ULA?

Re:Not in Canada

[bi_boy]

If we started you on the beer, you'd be so drunk so fast....

"You know Canadian beer is like moonshine."
"Hell yes!"

Re:Not in Canada

[spazdor]

Do English people in Japan whine to the government about not being about to read anything on the goddamned menus?

No, but the government of Japan also never signed any treaties with those Anglophones' ancestors promising that their great-grandkids would be allowed to do business in their own language.

I find the backflips just as inconvenient as you do, at times. But these backflips were part of the deal offered in order for Quebec to join the nation in the first place. To renege on it now would be to cancel that deal and ask les Quebecois anew if they want to be part of Canada.

Re:Not in Canada

[jimdread]

so far no netbook released in aus has come in with the Linux version

Are you sure? Wow Sight and Sound is selling Linux version EEE PCs: https://shop.1wow.com.au/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=&idproduct=1280 It's only got 4 GB SSD, and an 18cm (7inch) screen, but it says Linux.

Re:Not in Canada

[Kingrames]

That's easy. what's Klingon for "shoot it!"? that should cover every case.

Re:Not in Canada

[quantumphaze]

Many computer terms tend to be cut and pasted from English into foreign languages, especially if the word is exclusive to computing/technology developed. Something like 'Laptop' would have a foreign equivalent since it's a word made from existing words but something like 'Modem' and all the acronyms we know and love probably won't be any different.

Re:Not in Canada

[syncmaster955]

There is also the issue of French keyboards. Computer manufacturers used to sell French and English models (particularly laptops), each with a different keyboard. Recently some manufacturers (HP and Toshiba from what I have seen so far) started selling "all purpose" models that have a "merged" keyboard intended to work for both the French and English community. Here is a photo of what they put on many laptops in Canada now: http://www.powerbrixx.com/images/SKU_6421_1_Acer%20French_Keyboard.jpg Notice the extra key to the right of the left Shift and to the right of the Enter key (there are others as well). As you can imagine, if you are used to the traditional US keyboard this makes typing a bit troublesome. My sister bought one of these and we ended up re-mapping the extra keys to perform the function of what someone accustomed to the US keyboard would expect when hitting that part on the keyboard. The only big manufacturer I found (at least at Best Buy/Future Shop that was selling laptops with "normal" keyboards at the time was Dell, and that was a major influence in buying a Dell laptop. However, Dell may be on its way to these hybrid French/English keyboards and that might be another reason for not selling the Mini M in Canada yet.

Re:Not in Canada

[salimma]

But less than two percent of the whole world speaks French, and the great majority of them live in France, about 90% of all French speakers, to be exact

The great majority of French speakers live in West Africa; in total it probably accounts for 7% of the world population, not 2%. Compared to the 11% of the world population that speaks English as first or second language, give or take, quite decent.

Re:Not in Canada

[supernova_hq]

If we started you on the beer, you'd be so drunk so fast....

"You know Canadian beer is like moonshine." "Hell yes!"

Dude, If we started you on our moonshine, you'd be DEAD!

Re:Not in Canada

[supernova_hq]

I love how "Operating System" translates to "System of Exploitation"

I speak french, and while the translation is correct, it still makes no sense...

Re:Not in Canada

[poolmeister]

Likewise on the UK site there's no Ubuntu option, only Windows XP.

Link

Re:Not in Canada

[Virtual_Raider]

Many computer terms tend to be cut and pasted from English into foreign languages, especially if the word is exclusive to computing/technology developed. Something like 'Laptop' would have a foreign equivalent since it's a word made from existing words but something like 'Modem' and all the acronyms we know and love probably won't be any different.

Which only goes to show that common sense, logic and knowledge are not the same thing. The French are ferociously territorial with their language and the make up francophone terminology for everything they can. I guess it stems from the days that French was the Lingua Franca of the the world. Spanish speaking countries for instance are perfectly happy to say "software" (although there is a little-known native word coined, programalógica, everybody I've ever known that's heard it hates its guts). But the French word is 'logicielle'. There are heaps of other examples. So, no, it doesn't apply to French.

Re:Not in Canada

[darthdavid]

Well Dells generally do use Windows...

Re:Not in Canada

[Iloinen Lohikrme]

You are wrong in few points. In almost every non-English speaking country the government has rules on using the local official language/languages. Governments also regulate local language/languages, having official rules on what words are accepted and what the grammar is. English maybe a de-facto world language, but that doesn't mean that other languages wouldn't and shouldn't be used: in example European Union has 23 official languages and every single official document is translated to every language. So, Quebec using French and rest of the Canada using English is not so unique or even troublesome situation. Also as Canada is a federal state and one of your states is French speaking, it's natural that the state of Quebec has the right and freedom to use their own language and embrace its usage as they like it. I would also like to make a note that French is very useful language to learn. If you are going to make business in France or Europe in general, its always a step up if you can speak some other language than English. Or if you are ever going to make business with European Union then knowing how to speak French is almost mandatory.

Re:Not in Canada

[Samizdata]

You also forgot "hit it", "hit it hard", and "hit it harder."

Re:Not in Canada

[cerberusss]

I don't know of any other non-religious nation that is so anal about language

Try Belgium, which has both Dutch and French as official languages. I'm from the Netherlands and I like to exercise my French. So anyway I'm visiting Brussels (capitol of Belgium) sitting on a terrace and I order my beer in French. Comes this big Flemish guy, asking me in a loud voice whether I'm not proud of my language, why order in French and the like. I was totally flabberghasted, I tell you. Lots of Belgians are totally anal about that.

Re:Not in Canada

[cerberusss]

That means they have to translate the manuals, and that they need to provide French-language technical support.

Hmm, seems hard to believe. Once the contacts are in place with translation agencies, why would such things take so long? I'm not going along with this one, and guessing that it has to do with production speed not ramping up quickly enough to service other countries straight away.

Re:Not in Canada

[mattcasters]

You're from the Netherlands? See, that would explain their behavior!

Re:Not in Canada

[salimma]

The Flemish are more anal about that than the Walloons, especially in Brussels. It's geographically part of Flanders, but is mostly French-speaking (and encroaching on Flemish-speaking suburbs), to the point that a (hypothetical, but getting increasingly likely) breakaway Flanders would have trouble holding to it.

Re:Not in Canada

[Keith_Beef]

US is a trial market for the real world. ;-)

I looked at the Dell sites for France and for the UK. Both lack this Mini 9 / Linux deal.

You can get a Mini 9 in those two markets, but only with "Genuine Windows XP Home Edition SP3" and only the version with 1GB 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM.

My guess is that Dell is waiting to see what demand is like for this product in the US, and then will roll out ditribution in other markets "if a compelling business case (TM) can be made for it"

Re:Not in Canada

[shutdown -p now]

Yeah, but in other countries, having the language as an official one usually only means that all government publications are in both, all public services are in whichever one the parties request (and translators provided as needed etc). It usually doesn't mean that businesses are forced to provide any text related to their products or services in both languages at the same time, and "give prominence" to one over the other.

Re:Not in Canada

[Iloinen Lohikrme]

Actually no. Official language has to be used by the businesses when offering products or services to their customers including minimal documentation and warnings. In example here in Finland we have two official languages, Finland that is spoken approx. 90% as a native language and Sweden that is spoke approx. by 5 - 7% of population, that both must be used by both the government and businesses. Also as the country has two official languages it is obligatory for all students to study both languages. It should also be noted that also in other European countries you can't just in example start a restaurant and put your items on English, usage of official language/languages are required.

Re:Not in Canada

[billcopc]

I take the same flak for speaking English in Quebec. I usually respond with a few French verbal threats and a shaking fist, but it hasn't yet escalated to actual violence (sadly).

Lots of visible minorities are sensitive about their dying language/religion/race. It is a sign of desperation.

Re:Not in Canada

[cerberusss]

Lots of visible minorities are sensitive about their dying language/religion/race. It is a sign of desperation.

And the funny thing is, it's displayed as a strength, something to be proud of. But it's also a weakness, a wellknown button to push to get them excited.

I rather have an eee

[thetoadwarrior]

I'm keeping it real with the EEE.

Re:I rather have an eee

[Vectronic]

Pfft... not always true, im typing this from a 6 year old Dimension 8300, thats traveled by bus and by airplane at least twice each, has been on nearly 24/7 in those 6 years, and the only problem its had is the CPU fan (Radeon 9800 Pro) ran out of oil/lube which was a 5 minute fix...

Everything that was there originally still is, ive only added, not taken away or replaced anything... and it hasnt had it easy, gaming (even new games which its relatively underpowered for) and a hell of a lot of 3D editing and rendering...

Likewise the monitor (17" CRT, Philips internals) is the same age, same package...not a single problem.

Re:I rather have an eee

[Mad Merlin]

...and the only problem its had is the CPU fan (Radeon 9800 Pro)...

I didn't know the Radeon 9800 Pro was a CPU fan.

Re:I rather have an eee

[CaptPungent]

I've never had a problem with the Dell's I've used, and I normally build my own computers anyway. Their laptops have always seemed solid to me. I had been dreaming of an Asus but I quite like this thing here.

Re:I rather have an eee

[spin720]

I have had my dell xps laptop for four years, two gx270 small form for five years, three minitowers, one for three years, and one for two, and a new one between home and business. The laptop gets abused by me and my kids and the minitowers and small forms work in two separate restaurants (think grease and dust). No hardware issues ever... just the occasional XP crash... and that rarely. Sure there are some bad units out there from any company but I actually trust the Dells I use everyday.

Re:I rather have an eee

[Zymergy]

The Eee PC 1000H is a great system. I say GO GET ONE! If the Dell is better than the Eee 1000H, I have yet to read about it...

I get about 7-8 hours of *actual* battery life with my 1000H in the field with the optional Asus AL24-1000 8800mAh battery for Eee PC 1000H (yes, I ebayed it straight from Taiwan/China). NOTE: The 1000H comes default with the Asus 6600mAh AL23-901 battery (about 5-6 hours *actual* runtime).
I yanked the OEM 1GB SODIMM and replaced it with a PC-5300 2GB Corsair Value Ram SODIMM. (After updating to the latest Asus 1000H BIOS, it detects the full 2GB SODIMM, whereas before the BIOS update it only detected as 1GB, but still worked fine at 1GB...) It appears the Atom chipset memory limit at 1GB is artificially crippled initially.
Also yanked the OEM Wi-Fi card and installed a much better Intel 4965AGN Wi-Fi card.
I am about to replace the OEM Seagate 5,400RPM SATA 80GB HDD with a 64GB SATA SSD, but the run times named above were with the factory HDD and the Asus WinXP performance profiles set to "Auto". (Note that the Asus Eee 1000H has an 80 GB HDD with two 32GB partitions, the OS is ont he first one and the second one is not used. (but present as a D drive. Ans yes, you can install any notebook SATA drive, including the 320GB Seagate model, according to my buddy). Not sure why the 32GB WinXP partition, but it can be modified by pulling the drive and using Partition Magic (or whatever) to delete the other partition and change the size of the primary 32GB partition to fill the drive...

As I understand it, Microsoft has deliberately restricted the systems that can be licensed with OEM WinXP by mandating that devices having screens smaller than something like 10" or 11", and no more than 1GB of RAM, a HDD no larger than 80GB, and a processor slower than 1.8GHz. (Someone feel free to correct me on the exact WinXP OEM Netbook licensing hardware restrictions, but I have read about there somewhere recently...)
It is probable that the *nix versions of Dell's teeny PC can have larger/better hardware installed because *nix does not cripple the Atom-based PC's hardware restrictions.
The REAL QUESTION is, will Dell do what Asus did and allow their BIOS to allow 2GB of RAM and different NICs and BT modules and HDD. (But I rather doubt that Dell will release a 8800mAh battery for their Atom-based Netbook... I would like to publicly state to Microsoft that, "I think that a hardware *restriction* policy for OEM Netbook WinXP is just a bunch of CRAP!" Maybe Linux will eat their lunch because of it... Too bad I have to have windows for my work software...

Re:I rather have an eee

[Vectronic]

GPU fan...rather...

but, you should see it, its great... 6 Radeon 9800's spinning at 3000 RPM... fantastic!... plus when the power goes out, it turns into an alternator, and powers the PC for a bit... :|

Re:I rather have an eee

[growse]

Out of curiosity, how did you replace the wireless card? Googleing around turns up a guy who had no luck with a Broadcom card, so have you documented how you did it?

Re:I rather have an eee

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're mistaken abut the 1GB memory and the BIOS update. To expedite boot-up, the eee skips alot of the hardware checks that precede the OS initialization. You can restore them in the BIOS setup.

My 2GB stick wasn't recognized as more than 1GB until I entered BIOS setup for the first time. I think that was the first opportunity the system got to say "Oh, look, new RAM."

I assume that flashing the BIOS also forces a hardware check on restart, which would explain why it suddenly started working for you.

Re:I rather have an eee

[Zymergy]

It is under the same bottom hatch as the RAM and HDD on the bottom of the Eee PC 1000H.
It had an AzureWave AW-NE766 Mini-PCIe card factory installed so just I removed the standard white and black antenna connectors and swapped cards with my Intel 4965AGN card. (because the Intel card has more features and is well-documented.) I just had no third antenna to connect to the center "gray" antenna connection on the Intel card, but it works fine.)
Here is an article of an EeePC 1000H it with the back cover off, etc... http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1474/2/asus_eee_pc_1000h_under_the_covers/index.html

Re:I rather have an eee

[PopeRatzo]

I yanked the OEM 1GB SODIMM and replaced it with a PC-5300 2GB Corsair Value Ram SODIMM...
Also yanked the OEM Wi-Fi card and installed a much better Intel 4965AGN Wi-Fi card.
I am about to replace the OEM Seagate 5,400RPM SATA 80GB HDD with a 64GB SATA SSD,... you can install any notebook SATA drive, including the 320GB Seagate model, according to my buddy). Not sure why the 32GB WinXP partition, but it can be modified by pulling the drive and using Partition Magic (or whatever) to delete the other partition and change the size of the primary 32GB partition to fill the drive...

Geez, that's a lot of "yanking" and "pulling". Are you sure you're talking about a laptop? If the processor should ever fail, I wonder if Asus is going to honor the warranty considering the case has been violated more than Paris Hilton.

By the time you're done, you could have had Steve Jobs personally build you a custom MacBook with knurled hand-rubbed walnut trim.

Re:I rather have an eee

[growse]

Just bought the 4965AGN. Found a big thread on the 901 (that I have) for replacing the wifi, everyone there is nuts about the Atheros chipset. The 4965 can do injection with aircrack so is good for warwalking :)

Re:I rather have an eee

[Sockatume]

Out of curiosity, just how much of your original Eee is left now? You could probably make a second machine at this stage. :p

Re:I rather have an eee

[Jorophose]

because *nix does not cripple the Atom-based PC's hardware restrictions.

But that's if the harsh atom limits are not hit first.

Atom and Microsoft go hand in hand. That's why I've been planning to go for a VIA netbook. the 1000 series are looking very nice, even though no other netbook is really as cheap as the dell one.

Re:I rather have an eee

[Anonymous Coward]

By the time you're done, you could have had Steve Jobs personally build you a custom MacBook with knurled hand-rubbed walnut trim.

I just read "Steve Jobs" and "hand-rubbed" and decided I want one of those.

Re:I rather have an eee

[aliquis]

If I'd be given the option to buy a Dell instead of this Macbook Pro and still run the OS 100% working and legal I'd for sure take the Dell for amount of options and price.

Re:I rather have an eee

[adsl]

The second Atom chip will be faster, but has not been released by Intel yet. I believe it's a simple matter of swapping it for the existing Atom. Ergo for about $40-50 one can upgrade the CPU eventually

Re:I rather have an eee

[metamechanical]

How do I mod +1 disgusting?

Re:I rather have an eee

[petermgreen]

It sounds like he has replaced pretty much everything that is designed to be easilly replaceable. That still leaves the motherboard, processor (which is soldered to the motherboard) and case. Those are the parts that largely define the size, weight and feel of the machine.

Re:I rather have an eee

[petermgreen]

I don't think so at least not unless you have the facilities to desolder and replace a BGA chip.

When a laptop designer is trying to save bulk the CPU socket is often sacrificed and this was certainly the case with the EEE.

http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=EeePC1000H14l.png

Re:I rather have an eee

[gwolf]

As I understand it, Microsoft has deliberately restricted the systems that can be licensed with OEM WinXP by mandating that devices having screens smaller than something like 10" or 11", and no more than 1GB of RAM, a HDD no larger than 80GB, and a processor slower than 1.8GHz. (Someone feel free to correct me on the exact WinXP OEM Netbook licensing hardware restrictions, but I have read about there somewhere recently...)

I just bought an Acer Aspire One. Around US$420 (in Mexico, I understand it's cheaper in the US). It came with a 120GB HD, 1GB RAM, 1.6GHz Atom 270 CPU, and WinXP.

Re:I rather have an eee

[The Gaytriot]

I don't know if you're talking about the small form factor GX270 or the desktop ones, but in my experience the small form factor ones have pretty bad cooling problems. The biggest problem I've had is early hard drives failures because they are running between 54-60C all the time.
It seems like the first batch or two had defective motherboards which would short and melt the intel chipset, but I think they got that taken care of.

I actually got one of them for a home server because they were pretty tiny for the time, but I run it with the case open and a USB powered fan blowing to keep it cool

Re:I rather have an eee

[spin720]

The processing load on the gx270's is pretty light as they act solely as terminals for the POS system. They do get a bit dusty and I will check the temps. Thanks for the tip!

Re:I rather have an eee

[Zymergy]

For the record, today I installed the cheapest 64GB SATA SSD I easily could find on ebay (the Transcend MLC type 64GB SATA SSD) into the Eee PC 1000H.
Basically, I had to use the Asus restore DVD (Version 3.0) to boot/format/restore setup the blank SSD drive with a USB DVD-R Drive. (It was interesting that the Asus restore DVD boots to Norton Ghost v11.0 to restore the various partitions and drive images after which, WinXP Home came right up...)

If this is the REAL WORLD performance and speed to be expected from even the cheapest of Taiwanese SSD drives, *WOW!* is all I can say. Magnetic HDDs are about to 'booted' as the preferred boot OS drive type... I am impressed.
If I can tell the performance difference in such a slow CPU as the 1.6GHz Atom, I wonder just what a boot SSD will do for my gaming box?...
I am now interested in obtaining an MLC chip'd SSD to see the differences in real world use.

The Eee PC 1000H, boots faster, and is very very crisp and snappy with an SSD compared to the OEM Seagate 5400.3 80GB HDD.
(Now to measure the actual power consumption with the SSD...)

The value of Windows

[jmorris42]

I just love it! Go price out the same specs with Linux or Windows. The Windows machines are cheaper! Gotta love this, Linux is now more valuable than Windows!

Yes I know what is actually happening, Dell is keeping Microsoft happy. But lets all spin this as Windows is now the option nobody wants and see what happens. :)

Re:The value of Windows

[MightyYar]

No kidding! Go fully-loaded with Linux and it costs $20 more! LOL. MS must be practically giving them XP.

Re:The value of Windows

[Corrado]

Yea, well couldn't you get the Windows one, refuse the EULA, and get $100 back? That sounds like the way to go to me. :)

Re:The value of Windows

[thetoadwarrior]

They probably got some sort of sweet deal from MS for that.

Linux already has a reputation for being nerdy or hard or not having their favourite programs so why create a product with that OS and then charge more which will put those people off?

Re:The value of Windows

[jbeaupre]

They are just charging extra for access to all the Ubuntu program repositories. That's not free, you know. That's a valuable service not provided by MS so Dell needs to charge more to pay for it.

Re:The value of Windows

[thermian]

lets all spin this as Windows is now the option nobody wants and see what happens. :)

Nobody wants? Lots of people want Windows. Surprising though it may be, outside of technically aware circles, there are many computer owners who don't even know Linux exists. Then even if they find out, how many shops sell Linux software on their shelves? Again, there are still lots of people who like to buy their goods in high street stores.

I'd buy the Windows version, put the backup media aside, then install Linux, in full knowledge that if I decide to I can change to Windows with ease.

I wouldn't want a machine without an option to install Windows on it if I want to, and that means getting the licence when I buy the machine.

But then I must be a freak, because I like Linux and Windows XP. Ok, not Vista, I'm a freak, but I'm not crazy.

Re:The value of Windows

[Taxman415a]

Not sure how you got that. If you take the linux option and add the same 8GB larger "hard drive" then it is slightly cheaper than the second option that has Windows with the same specs. If you add the 16gb drive and 1GB memory to it, then it is the same price as the third option that has windows and the same specs.

Funny that the build your own doesn't allow you to select the OS. It would feel so good to select one of the Windows configurations and be able upgrade to Ubuntu. But with any luck once Ubuntu isn't a pre-order, you'll be able to.

Re:The value of Windows

[dedazo]

Dell's entire product infrastructure was Windows-based until a year ago or so. An OEM license of XP Pro is going for $45 these days. Dell can't install crapware on the Linux machines. All that probably means their per-unit costs are higher for Ubuntu than for XP machines.

But lets all spin this as Windows is now the option nobody wants and see what happens

You can spin it however you want, but I doubt this is some evil Microsoft tricksie, and I very much doubt the $20 difference is swaying your potential Linux users from buying the machine in the first place.

Re:The value of Windows

[mocoloco]

When I compare upgrades on the Ubuntu model with the mid and high-price XP offerings I get Ubuntu $15 cheaper and equal, respectively. And that's with their stupid "instant savings". Wonder who's behind those, Dell or MS?

Re:The value of Windows

[jellomizer]

It is more of a fact that they need to alter the production line and put a different OS on the system. Thus costing more as it is an exception to the process. When you are mass producing things every step of customization costs more. Having Linux or Windows option means most likely the drives default come with windows on them and then there is an extra step to reimage it with Linux. This doesn't have anything to do with Linux being better or worse then Windows, or even the cost of the licenses that dell needs to pay for it is about costs of mass production. Say each Windows License costs Dell $100.00, it is quite possible the extra step in production is costing dell $120 for an exception of a Linux image (Labor Costs+Benefits, QA, support, inventory....) It all adds up.

Re:The value of Windows

[jmorris42]

> Surprising though it may be, outside of technically aware circles, there are many
> computer owners who don't even know Linux exists.

Outside of technical circles most people only know Windows exists from the PC vs Mac commercials. Try an eeepc and you will know understand that if properly preloaded the average person can use Linux just fine, especially on these new small machines where running 3D shooters isn't going to be an option anyway.

> I'd buy the Windows version, put the backup media aside, then install Linux...

Thats you. Me, I am typing on this Thinkpad that we wasted money on an XP Pro license for that MIGHT have accumulated twenty hours of use in four years, because we didn't have a choice. Then I probably blew more than a man day on getting Linux up and fully twiddled. Gimme a preload anyday and keep yer stinkin Windows sticker. Now if Dell would sell one preloaded with XP AND toss in a Linux recovery disc I'd think about it. Somehow I suspect Microsoft won't be subsidizing that option though.

Re:The value of Windows

[Shados]

They are. Having dealt with some OEM contracts, XP can end up as low as 5$ per license. Then add what companies pay Dell to install crapware, and you end up with negative cost (until people start developing crapware for Linux anyway)

Re:The value of Windows

[camperdave]

Go fully-loaded with Linux and it costs $20 more! LOL. MS must be practically giving them XP.

Really? It sounds to me like MS is paying them to preinstall XP.

Re:The value of Windows

[mocoloco]

This irks me, if you go to the "design" tab and hit "Meet the Mini" it says "Look for Ubuntu Linux 8.04 with custom Dell interface when customizing your Inspiron Mini 9, or upgrade to Genuine Microsoft Windows XP."

So XP is considered an Upgrade? Aaarrgh!

Re:The value of Windows

[LWATCDR]

Yea people don't seem to realize that the crapletts are a source of cash. Dell probably makes a good $30 more installing Windows than Linux.
I wouldn't mind paying for Windows version if only I could use that copy of XP on a different machine.

Re:The value of Windows

[dedazo]

You can always boot DSL or other minimal distro off a USB drive. I believe you can even boot off CF and other types of cards if your BIOS supports it.

Re:The value of Windows

[anagama]

Don't forget the $20 bump to get white! go that route and it's $40 more.

Re:The value of Windows

[StrategicIrony]

I disagree. Dell has a drive-image process where they pull out any one of like 500 images (for different hardware, drivers, etc) for different machines.

It can't exactly be rocket science for them to pull the "Ubuntu for mini9" instead of "Windows for mini9".

I think the price difference is that the crapware they load from Google and others almost totally offsets the cost of the Windows license AND they probably tack on an additional $20 for the required support staff for Linux. Those two things combined probably brings the cost of Linux higher than Windows.

I would be willing to bet that Dell pre-loads Windows XP for under $30 per copy FYI.

Re:The value of Windows

[corsec67]

Um, then are you saying that every single drive in every single Dell laptop has the exact same image?

I would assume there would be an image for every drive size for every combination of laptop hardware they sell.

It isn't like they get imaged hard drives from the manufacturer, they have to image them somewhere, and right before they put it into a CTO laptop seems like a good time, since they could then include any updates, regardless of the OS.

They already have like 8 colors of some laptops, so having two different versions (Ubuntu/Windows) doesn't seem very hard to do at all.

Re:The value of Windows

[drakethegreat]

Or they could just leave them blank and image it after the order is place. There by removing the need to reimage and making neither more expensive to install from the technical side. Sorry I just think $120 to reimage a system in production with the default choice is absolute bull and you are stretching it. I think the reality is simply the crapware and the cheap licenses that Microsoft provides are better reasons for the price differential.

Re:The value of Windows

[drakethegreat]

Also if they do pay $120 per machine to simply reimage a hard drive I want the job because that person is getting overpaid.

Re:The value of Windows

[Mooga]

Since I have a copy of XP pro, I might as well try to get the $100 back. Damn, even a better deal now!

Re:The value of Windows

[mombodog]

Oh, but you get the custom Dell interface with Ubuntu, definitely worth the $20 (sarcasm) http://melolabs.com/x44

Re:The value of Windows

[djfake]

well, they charge $25 for a system color of white... but I seriously doubt the linux version costs anymore. Ubuntu has as much vested in the Mini as Microsoft does. At any rate, no one has mentioned the obvious: both Windows options have a discount, $45 and $55 - Dell is paying you to buy Windows. c

Re:The value of Windows

[Fred Ferrigno]

The Windows OEM EULA leaves the refund/return policy up to the manufacturer. While some manufacturers have paid out to placate angry customers, they're not required to give refunds. Since Dell actually supports Linux on this laptop, they'd probably just ship you a Linux restore CD to wipe away Windows. (At cost to you, of course.)

Re:The value of Windows

[MightyYar]

There are enormous economies of scale in the Windows marketplace

I understand, but are you telling me that Dell's cost to install Linux on a hard drive exceeds $20 + the cost of the Windows license? Dell is legendary for cutting costs - I doubt that the load costs them anything significant... hell, they may even dump the responsibility on a vendor.

I think it is much more likely that all the income from the crapware on a Windows install more than makes up for the cost of the Windows license.

Re:The value of Windows

[jefu]

So, it seems that the thing to do is buy the windows version, get the windows refund (sigh) and install linux. (Hopefully the specs are the same so that the windows version doesn't use any windows only hardware.)

Re:The value of Windows

[thermian]

Its not that I'm scared. I too have used Vista, and found it to be ok, stability wise.

My problem is that it has a larger system resource overhead, one which in my opinion, is not justified by the small number of improvements it offers. I don't think it was well designed in that respect.

Since I have a real need to have the OS use less of the system then Vista manages, I can't use it. While XP is definitely getting a little long in the tooth, I've found that its faster and leaner than Vista, and that's a major consideration for me. Were Vista better designed I'd have it installed on my main computer already.

I'm a coder, and the class of software I develop is seriously processor and memory intensive, so my own needs are admittedly more stringent then a normal user, but still, Vista hasn't impressed me. I'm holding out for Windows 7, which I will be buying for better or for worse, because by then XP will be hopelessly outdated. I really hope its good.

Re:The value of Windows

[Repossessed]

There may be a reason for that.

Dell likes to stick Dell branded broadcom cards (which are horribly unreliable) into cheap notebooks. And more expensive, slightly less unreliable, Intel wireless cards in the more expensive offerings. The Intel one is the Linux compatible card (without involving ndiswrapper) for Dell though, which means the Linux box probably ends up having more expensive hardware at the same configuration.

I'm disappointed to see a lack of battery upgrade options as well. The big thing from the initial press releases for the mini 9 for me was going to be getting a strong battery life. Ah well, MSI or ASUS it is.

Re:The value of Windows

[adsl]

I think the going rate for the XP O/S, in these machines, is close to $40.00. It's just about money for free to Microsoft and there is no way Vista would be put on these machines so it doesn't take away sales.

Re:The value of Windows

[Whatanut]

Speaking as one that actually maintains our workstation image which covers a very large number of hardware configurations... I can say that it doesn't have to be a different image for every hardware configuration possible. It just has to have the right drivers for the hardware that's there. There are actually very few factors which dictate the real necessity for a separate image. Mainly multi-core vs. single core. Other than that. A single image is fair game.

Of course.. saying that. I will also say that Dell probably isn't dumb enough to use my system. It's a frickin' pain to keep the image updated for all that hardware. But I'd rather maintain one image (actually 12 internationally due to some random customizations for language and form factor) than 500.

Re:The value of Windows

[amohat]

People still buy software that's in a box that's on a shelf?

Not for long. Software is going wireless, or at least that's the future of people's expectations. Like the App Store.

And of course the Linux community should be ready the take the lead here, as that's the beauty of it. Don't we hop online to shop repositories? We been doing that

And most folks just want technology to work for them. There is zero loyalty. There is incredible inertia. First to convince people to trust their product wins. (extra points for maintaining it!)

Whatever, I can't wait to see how it all shakes out! Seriously...this sucks, more action, please...

Re:The value of Windows

[noidentity]

I just love it! Go price out the same specs with Linux or Windows. The Windows machines are cheaper! Gotta love this, Linux is now more valuable than Windows!

If you calculate in Windows' negative value, it makes sense. It would be like buying a new car that had soda spilled all over the seat, discounted because you'd have to clean the crap out before you can use it.

Re:The value of Windows

[noidentity]

"Look for Ubuntu Linux 8.04 with custom Dell interface when customizing your Inspiron Mini 9, or upgrade to Genuine Microsoft Windows XP."

So XP is considered an Upgrade? Aaarrgh!

They probably copy-and-pasted that from the blurb for machines that come with Vista pre-installed. Simple mistake.

Re:The value of Windows

[Johnny Loves Linux]

Whatever Any PC OEM says, they are the manufacturer so they ARE left holding the bag on the refund. Giving you a Linux install disk does *NOT* release them from the Windows refund since the Microsoft EULA says *nothing* about any other operating system being an acceptable substitute for a refund.

Re:The value of Windows

[ISoldat53]

Dell has the customer keep the image or they put their people on site to do it. That's one reason they push standard configurations for large customer.

Re:The value of Windows

[Johnny Loves Linux]

I've never worked on Dell's production line, but I'm pretty the installation of the Operating System is fairly well automated. I don't the robots give a damn which iso image they are installing, so I just don't buy the "production line" costs. Nor do I buy the "every" linux image is costing them "$120". What, you think XP is installed by some automated industrial robot production line, but Linux is installed by hiring some people who are going to manually install Linux one-at-a-time on a computer? If I was Michael I would fire the person who made that decision to piss away profits.

Re:The value of Windows

[jmorris42]

> a day twiddling? My x41 ran perfectly with ubuntu no twiddling involved.

Did ubuntu even exist four years ago? Yes some things are easier to get going out of the box now, but there is still value in a preload image. With a preload you expect EVERYTHING to just work the first time and can pik up the phone if it doesn't.

Re:The value of Windows

[Rudeboy777]

Then I probably blew more than a man day on getting Linux up

I don't know what you have planned for tonight, Homer, but you can count me out.

Re:The value of Windows

[westlake]

I understand, but are you telling me that Dell's cost to install Linux on a hard drive exceeds $20 + the cost of the Windows license?
.

I am asking you to look at Dell's costs as a whole --- production. marketing. service and support.

--- and I am asking you to look at how Dell is positioning the netbook as a $99 accessory for your new Windows PC.

This is a new product category and Linux a new OS for essentially 100% of Dell's home and SOHO customers.

Re:The value of Windows

[Free the Cowards]

I'm not totally familiar with the Windows EULA, but wouldn't that policy simply be how you obtain the refund, not whether you are actually entitled to one? I mean, I thought that the EULA said quite simply that if you don't agree to the EULA then you can return the software for a refund, end of story. The manufacturer may be able to decide how you do that (call and read them a number versus physically mailing them the discs or whatever) but I don't think that they can decide that instead of your $100 they will send you some plastic and call it even.

Re:The value of Windows

[kenh]

Dell is paying $5/license for these netbooks for WinXP Home. The support needed for WinXP Home will be leveraged on the last how-many years of WinXp Home support they already have developed. Ubuntu had to be configured, deployed, documented, and supported a new. It takes very little effort to imagine it costs Dell $5 (or more) per netbook to support that platform.

I ordered my netbook with WinXP Home, assuming I can download the install ISO from Dell after these units ship - seems a safe bet, and I'll be able to try both OS and see which is best for that platform.

Re:The value of Windows

[MightyYar]

The only place where I could see significant increased costs for Dell is "support". It is entirely possible that the people who buy Linux call in with more questions - or are more likely to return the unit.

Re:The value of Windows

[Fred Ferrigno]

Here's the relevant text from the Vista OEM EULA:

By using this software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine their refund policy for a refund or credit.

You might well contact them and determine that their refund policy is "no refunds". Even if you would say that clause entitles you to a refund, the EULA says nothing about the refund amount or additional steps you might have to take to get the refund, such as returning the hardware with the software.

When I said they might send you a Linux restore CD, obviously that's not a return or refund. However, it does obviate the need for a refund by fixing the problem with your laptop.

Re:The value of Windows

[shiftless]

I have one of the Inspiron E1505 machines that Dell began selling last year with Linux on it. The Linux version of this machine has slightly different (more compatible, and more expensive) hardware. I don't recall all the details but I know the wireless card is different from the Windows version. I would not be surprised if something similar is going on here.

Re:The value of Windows

[jellomizer]

The $120 is not just labor. Total costs are more complicated.
First lets consider Labor Say the Dude gets $12.00 per hour to image Linux drives, and he may be entitled to insurance, vacation, etc.. so just the labor alone for that one guy is costing Dell about 40k per year then you will probably need 4 of these guys
Now lets add the Manager 1 manager for 8 people so he would be doing half time. This manager probably would be paid roughly $22 per hour so with the 50% split $12 per hour then add benefits that brings it to an other 40k per year.
Now lets add his manager doing 1/8 work on the Linux process He gets paid $30k So when divided by 8 and add benefits costs it is roughly $5 per hour.
Ok in case you weren't counting dell is paying $205 per hour for Linux installs.
Now that was just normal labor. For manufacturing.
Now Dell need to train Linux support people for Desktop linux issues (and they are issues) So lets say 50 employees who are cost the company $20 per hour (As before benefits and taxes really add to the costs of hiring) Lets say it a 40 hour week training. so that is a cost of $40,000 and most likely due to turn over and such this is probably a yearly expense as well. That is $225 per hour for those keeping tally.
Chances are that one of those guys who are costing the company $40k a year will quit and will need to be replaced so turnover cost is about 150% of the replacement salary so that is an added cost of $10 per hour. So that is $235 per hour total for Linux support.
Then we got QA people to insure the Linux Laptops have Linux and the Windows has Windows An extra step in the process I would say this takes 1/8 of a persons time and say they cost 60k a year So lets add $5 per hour here to round if off $240

So for dell to break even at charging $120 extra (with a $20 difference of windows) they need to expect 18,000 system to be released per year with Linux. Now that doesn't seem like an unrealistic goal especially as windows costs cheaper many people will just install linux themselves and have a valid windows license for future use if they need it. But 18-20k of people for the ones who feel strongly about not paying the windows tax will basically pay extra because of economy of scale.

Re:The value of Windows

[MagusSlurpy]

It's considered an upgrade because you are paying money for it. Doesn't matter whether it's worth it or not.

Re:The value of Windows

[expatriot]

"blew moe than a man day on getting Linux up" but everyone says you just stick the disk in and you are ready to go in minutes ...

Re:The value of Windows

[cerberusss]

(until people start developing crapware for Linux anyway)

sudo yum -y groupremove crapware

:-)

Re:The value of Windows

[the_one(2)]

It could go the other way as well since linux would probably have fewer problems and run better

Re:The value of Windows

[quantumphaze]

I configured the Ubuntu and the better XP Dell to have the same disk space and RAM. I also added the 1.3MP webcam and Bluetooth to both.

Ubuntu: $494
XP: $534-$55=$479

Just wait for the next generation/wave of netbooks. Better hardware means they will have to slap Vista Business on them and under go the downgrade because of Microsoft's hardware limitation on XP licenses. And they will definitely have more incentive to push the cheaper Linux versions.

Re:The value of Windows

[tepples]

I'd buy the Windows version, put the backup media aside, then install Linux, in full knowledge that if I decide to I can change to Windows with ease.

Unless a company puts hardware without a free driver in the Windows version of the product to cut costs.

Re:The value of Windows

[MightyYar]

Good point - that would also explain the delay in shipping.

Re:The value of Windows

[salimma]

A bit OT, but I'm kind of curious what sort of "factory restore" functionality will be included with the device. It comes with no built-in optical drive, so perhaps .. a tool to make a backup image on Flash?

If Dell makes the Linux image downloadable, it would be really cool too.

Re:The value of Windows

[salimma]

Um, then are you saying that every single drive in every single Dell laptop has the exact same image?

Not Dell, but incidentally, Lenovo might be doing that on their current Thinkpad line-up. A pristine, newly-restored installation would spend at least 15 minutes on first boot in customizing the current configuration!

Re:The value of Windows

[ottothecow]

I don't know if there was a stable version of ubuntu 4 years ago but it is getting close (3 years for sure).

I remember making the switch from mandriva to ubuntu on my thinkpad T23 in late 2005 (without a mandatory day of twiddling). The x41 may not have been brand new as a line then but you could certainly buy one brand new at that time (I am not sure about the x series but I know the t6x line didnt start until...early 06?)

Re:The value of Windows

[Just Some Guy]

The Windows OEM EULA leaves the refund/return policy up to the manufacturer. While some manufacturers have paid out to placate angry customers, they're not required to give refunds.

Sue Microsoft and Dell together in small claims court. Let the judge decide who owes you.

Re:The value of Windows

[The Gaytriot]

Don't forget about the Acer Apire One. Good specs and it's $330 for the base model on Newegg.

Re:The value of Windows

[dhasenan]

I prefer Linux, and I want Linux to be supported by my hardware vendor. Therefore I am willing to pay a small additional fee to indicate my preference to the vendor. This will encourage them to continue supporting Linux in the future.

Getting one of those

[ilovesymbian]

Wow, I'm getting one of those. Sounds too good to be true, though.

I hope it doesn't disappoint me unlike the other Linux pre-installed laptops.

Curiously

[Thelasko]

There are options with XP, one that includes an 8GB drive and a $40 instant savings, another with a 16GB drive and 1GB RAM that has a $55 instant savings. Curiously the Ubuntu systems...

Aren't eligible for "instant savings."

Instant Savings= money we pass on to you for loading bloatware?

Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[xzvf]

The discounts on the two windows based versions equal out the cost of configuring the Linux version exactly the same. The resolution of the screen is 1024x600 making it slightly better than some competitors.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[Thelasko]

The discounts on the two windows based versions equal out the cost of configuring the Linux version exactly the same. The resolution of the screen is 1024x600 making it slightly better than some competitors.

I don't know how you configured yours, but if you specify everything:
1GB DDR2 at 533MHz
16GB Solid State Drive
Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 capability
Integrated 1.3M Pixel Webcam

Windows=$479
Ubuntu=$494

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[Piranhaa]

The MSI Wind and Asus eees (minus the 7xx versions) come with 8.9 inch screens and with the 1024x600 resolution as well. The Acer Aspire One is the same. Not sure how Dell's is any better. Now that it's released I think I may go with the 6-cell Acer Aspire One. I can't believe Dell didn't include F# keys and instead left a high 2-3inch gap above the keyboard. Poor planning on Dell's part IMO.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[TooMuchToDo]

You get $55 off on the Windows machine, bringing the cost to $424 before shipping. The $55 off does not not apply to the Ubuntu selection.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[Thelasko]

You get $55 off on the Windows machine, bringing the cost to $424 before shipping. The $55 off does not not apply to the Ubuntu selection.

No, what I posted includes the discount.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[TooMuchToDo]

I went through the build process for both types (Windows and Ubuntu) and was unable to get the discount on any machine with Ubuntu selected.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[Thelasko]

I went through the build process for both types (Windows and Ubuntu) and was unable to get the discount on any machine with Ubuntu selected.

Neither was I, what's your point?

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[Free the Cowards]

Sounds like you ought to buy the Windows one, get a refund for the bundled Windows install, and then install Ubuntu on your own. Ought to come out really cheap that way!

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[Mista2]

Well, it might be worth US$20 for the default linux install and recovery disks, as I'll be saving on not needing to buy MS Office. To get a windows box the way I like it, takes be about 2 hrs to install everything, remove the crapware, but then it is till only windows. For linux, I already have a script to add the repos and install my favourite apps. Then I just change the theme to something other than Human and I'm good to go. Hardy Heron takes me a little longer as I have to mess around with fusesmb where as Linux Mint (previous version) had fusesmb set up from the get go.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[Taxman415a]

WTF? I'm looking right at the screen right now and the 16gb SSD 1gb RAM XP Option is $449 and that is exactly the same price as what I get when I select the Linux option and add the larger SSD and extra RAM to match. Other people above reported the $20 price difference, but I didn't realize we were seeing different prices.

The other thing that would be nice is a larger batter for those prices. And any idea on the power draw for a netbook like this? I'd really like to run a truly portable solar powered system, but I'm not sure what all would be involved.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[ryanov]

Ever used an Eee? Not sure there's a comparison. And Bluetooth for me these days is big.

Re:Discounts make the Windows=Linux in cost

[The Gaytriot]

I highly recommend the Acer, I wonder why it hasn't gotten as much attention. The basic model with 3-cell battery is only $330 on Newegg right now.

They included a gimpy Linpus Lite OS which I grew weary of fairly quickly, but Ubuntu 8.04.1 formatted in ext2 works well.

Re:Needs an HD option

[jmorris42]

> SSD is cool and all, but a 80GB disk would be cheaper

And be larger, heavier and draw more power. You are missing the point of a SMALL laptop.

HTPC Capable

[hlopez]

I saw on the specs that it has a vga port. Could these computer serve to dish out divx and hi-def video from a wireless server? Is the chip-set capable of tv out with a vga2svido adapter o connected straight to a vga port on the tv?

Re:HTPC Capable

[PitaBred]

I really don't think that the Atom is capable of decoding full HD video at any reasonable rate. You might be barely able to get away with 720p DivX or H.264 video, though. The only option for 1080p might be to have a VERY fast network with some very minimally CPU-intensive encoding.

Re:HTPC Capable

[skaet]

divx is easily possible. I'm sure the WinXP systems would be able to run Media Center/WMP10 well enough (bluetooth remote anyone?) and there are various other media centers you could use for the Ubuntu version.

You're probably better off using a 3rd party media server since WMC will only play Microsoft's supported formats (go figure) and won't transcode foreign formats. Personally, I'm using TVersity on my desktop server with my Xbox 360 as the client. TVersity will transcode on the fly to whichever format your device supports and dynamically adjust bitrate for your particular network; works beautifully.

When it comes to HD media, I doubt any of the current UMPCs are capable of outputting it. For one, you'll need an appropriate HD output port and VGA just doesn't cut it these days. You could get hi-res H.264 encodes which would play fine through a media server (with the appropriate codecs, of course) and assuming you have the network bandwidth to stream it.

The best bang*buck...

[blind biker]

...is the 16GB SSD variant, which comes with WindowsXP. Turns out, if you get the one with Ubuntu, you get shafted. Wanna bet the Linux version won't be hugely popular?

I'm slightly dismayed.

"With Custom Dell Interface"

[bcolflesh]

Cue ominous music...

Custom Dell Interface?

[Corrado]

Which window manager are they using for the Ubuntu version? I hope its not Gnome; I have nothing against it but Gnome is not really designed for this type of layout. I am very interested in something like the Remix WM and would love to know if it would work on the Inspiron Mini 9.

Does anyone have any details?

Re:Custom Dell Interface?

[mocoloco]

I would guess it's a further customized version of Ubuntu netbook remix, which does use Gnome underneath everything.

Re:Custom Dell Interface?

[Taxman415a]

Or something different. In an interview I can't find now, Mark Shuttelworth referred to customizing the interface in a few different ways for interested hardware partners that he didn't mention at the time, one of which was apparently Dell. I don't recall that he mentioned it was based on the netbook remix stuff or not.

Re:Custom Dell Interface?

[salimma]

Don't worry, GNOME is not a window manager.

Re:Linux + Bigger HDD?

[nicolas.kassis]

You can upgrade everything on the linux option. Just select and configure.

Re:Needs an HD option

[jrothwell97]

And it would make it less durable. SSDs are very drop-friendly. (My own SSD-powered Eee 701 has survived many, many drops.)

$99!

[Thelasko]

If you can wait until 6 a.m. Central tomorrow, Sept. 5, youâ(TM)ll be able to get a Mini for only $99 with the purchase of a Studio 15, XPS M1530 or XPS M1330 laptop through 6 a.m. Tuesday, Sept. 9 (U.S. only).

yourblog found via endgadget.

Re:$99!

[stefanlasiewski]

Great! Think of all the money you'll save by spending that extra $1000 on a second laptop.

Available in the UK

[Dan100]

It's on dell.co.uk. Only one model listed, the XP SP3 1 Gb ram 16 Gb SSD version, for £299 ($530 equivalent).

Most higher-end EEEs come with Linux...

[SanityInAnarchy]

...whereas the higher-end Minis come with XP.

Review with video (Linux version)...

[feranick]

http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/dell-inspiron-mini-9-linux.aspx

Card reader under Ubuntu

[sensei moreh]

I'd like to know if the card reader works properly under Ubuntu. On my Aspire One 150-1570 (the 120GB HDD version that comes w/ WinXP), my xD card is not recognized with either Fedora or Ubuntu; SD cards are recognized in a slot only if that slot is occupied at boot.

The 99 dollar deal is sweet.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I wish I knew somebody who wanted a dell laptop; because the 99 dollars to add a mini to select laptop orders is a sweet deal. Aside from that, this looks like a competent but not overwhelming entry to the netbook field.

Shipping Date - GRRRRR

[superid]

I just ordered mine a few minutes ago and got my order confirmation. The anticipated shipping date is October 10Th !!!!!

Re:Shipping Date - GRRRRR

[MTrebing]

I ordered at 4 am this morning. DELL lost the order somehow, even though I received one confirmation. Re-ordered this afternoon and got the same shipping date "estimate."

Re:Shipping Date - GRRRRR

[catxk]

Dell usually overshoots the anticipation by weeks, so count on getting is much earlier.

Re:Shipping Date - GRRRRR

[DittoBox]

Same here. A total cockup. I'm considering canceling the order and telling them that's the reason, and that they just lost a sale to the cheaper Acer Aspire, even if it's a bitch to put memory into.

If you plan on running Linux and use Flash...

[RemusX2]

I would recommend going with the middle option. With Linux flash support just passing at best, the lowest model just hits the minimum requirements as specified by Adobe. http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/productinfo/systemreqs/ The middle setup with the 1GB of RAM would make this a lot smoother.

Re:Needs an HD option

[Ken_g6]

The SSD drives for this notebook in particular look awfully expensive to me. $50 to go from 4GB to 8GB?

You can get a full 16GB SSD (with USB interface) from NewEgg for just $35!

"Custom Dell interface"

[Ethanol-fueled]

Interface be damned, I'm interested only in Dell custom drivers that Just Work(tm)...even if they aren't open source.

Re:Linux + Bigger HDD?

[TooMuchToDo]

Thanks! I've been chatting with a Dell rep to buy a couple of these, and they weren't able to help.

Where are the F-keys ...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello...?? I dont want to press the "Function" button first to give me an F11 for maximum firefox screen size browsing ..... *cries*

Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[Doc Ruby]

I bought a Dell Inspiron 8000 in 2001. For $2200, it came with a 15" 1600x1200 screen, the first one in an under $5000 notebook. I knew I was buying a PC that would stay "current" for quite a while (despite its P3/1GHz and slowish CD-R). But if I want to jump to the next higher resolution now, 1920x1200 (1080p), I've still got to spend well over $2500.

After the past 7 years, in which notebooks, TVs, projectors, phones, iPods and everywhere else I look have made substantial LCDs a huge mass market, why aren't these things cheap yet?

I don't really need a palmtop PC to take everywhere. I'd rather keep my phone with me all the time, and use it as a remote and mic/earphone when I'm near a PC (maybe booting the PC off my own secured Desktop stored on the phone). If P4/2GHz/1GB/GPU notebooks with 1080p (1920x1200) screens 15" or bigger were $500 each, I'd buy a bunch of them to leave in my usual haunts, instead of schlepping them around.

How long must I wait?

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[n17ikh]

You don't have to spend over $2500. When was the last time you checked? Dell right now is selling the Latitude D830 configured with a 15.4" WUXGA screen (1920x1200) for $1,128 if the only option you add is the better screen. That comes with a 2Ghz core2duo, 2 gigs of ram, and a 120gb hard drive. That's the last-gen model as of a few weeks ago since they released the E-series latitudes, but keep in mind these are also the business laptops and are more expensive (and better) than their Inspiron crap. Now, if you want to upgrade to the latest-gen e6500 latitude, that'll cost you $1428 after adding your 1920x1200 screen. If you want a 17" monitor with that resolution, they have it in the form of the Studio 17 for $1199 after adding it. These prices are from five minutes ago. It's not $500 but it's getting there. I bet if you looked hard enough you could find these laptops refurbished on their factory outlet for near enough your target price, or elsewhere.

As an aside: All these laptops have a decently fast dual-core processor. They're C2Ds so they're not crappy like the P4 you want (Netburst was the worst mistake Intel could have made, and was one of the reasons AMD got to be so popular during that era). Core2duos are closer to being pentium 3s than they are pentium 4s, and are far more efficient per clock cycle. My Dothan (older mobile chip, an intermediary step between the Core series and the P3 series) that runs at 2.4Ghz gets the same in benchmarks as a 3.8Ghz Prescott chip, and draws 4x less power under full load and maybe 10-15x less at idle. That should give you some sort of idea on which to base P4/modern Intel chip comparisons, and the chips have only become more efficient since then (2005).

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[Doc Ruby]

I was searching the Web for just "WUXGA notebooks", not for "notebooks factory upgradeable to WUXGA". Thanks for that very clear explanation. Do you happen to have a URL for the best place to start picking among the features you mentioned?

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[Doc Ruby]

Anonymous zombie army cowards mean nothing to me. Thanks for the proof that the trollMods mean even less than that.

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[Doghouse Riley]

Admittedly it's still a far cry from $500, but I just priced this:

powernotebooks.com - 1920x1200 17", Intel Duo 2.1ghz, 3GB Corsair RAM, NVidia 8600GT 512, 160 G HDD - $1,524

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[n17ikh]

Well, that's just off Dell's website - just head over there and search for 'e6500' or 'd830' or maybe 'studio 17'. They use a strange dynamic URL structure like a lot of commerce websites so it's hard to direct-link stuff there. Actually though, I'd recommend looking at something like Asus or Sager whitebooks - notebooks that come as barebones and you or a reseller add the CPU, RAM, etc - it's how I got my current laptop and it was very inexpensive at the time. powernotebooks.com is a good place to star

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[Doc Ruby]

Thanks. Your help has just made up for so many pointless, pointlessly wrong and even pointlessly abusive Slashdot threads posted by so many others. :).

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[MojoStan]

If P4/2GHz/1GB/GPU notebooks with 1080p (1920x1200) screens 15" or bigger were $500 each, I'd buy a bunch of them to leave in my usual haunts, instead of schlepping them around.

Don't know if you're still reading replies, but the cheapest I've seen is Dell's Vostro 1510 in Dell's Small Business section. Right now, $599 (free shipping) gets you the base configuration ($499) plus WUXGA upgrade (+$150) minus "Save $50 when priced $599 or more" promotion (-$50).

Intel® Celeron M® 550 (2.0GHz, 1M L2 Cache, 533MHz FSB)
Windows Vista® Home Basic, Service Pack 1
15.4 in UltraSharp(TM) Widescreen WUXGA LCD Display w/TrueLife(TM)
1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz, 2 DIMM
Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100
24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive with Roxio Creator
Dell Wireless 1395 802.11g Wi-Fi Internal Card
6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
1 Year Basic Limited Warranty plus 1 Year Mail-in Service

Note that the Celeron M 550 is based on the original notebook Core 2 Duo, so it's way better than a P4. Also, Vostros don't come with crapware. Unfortunately, I don't know where the heck you'd be able to see and feel one before you buy. Some retail stores and kiosks have Dells on display, but they're Dell's "Home & Home Office" models, not their "Small Business" models, AFAIK.

Re:Cheaper Widescreens Yet?

[Doc Ruby]

Thanks, that's another excellent suggestion. $600 WUXGA notebooks are really cool. I wonder whether the GPU/ethernet is fast enough to play 1080p HD streamed from the network, running Linux?

Also, I wonder whether I can get a "Windows refund" and knock some $more off the price...

$99 with another Dell machine

[Sockatume]

US only, alas, but they're practically giving them away if you order them at the same time as another Dell computer apparently. Pretty damn attractive, IMO.

Smokin' deal...

[certain death]

If you order tomorrow, you can get one for US $99 when you purchase some other hardware... http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/858597/

LED Display?

[lm317t]

From YFA:

Glossy 8.9 inch LED display (1024X600)

I checked on Dell's site and it says LED also. Does this mean its using sometype of Light Emitting Diode Display? Or is this a misprint on engadget and Dell.

Re:LED Display?

[MoonBuggy]

Just means that the LCD is backlit by LEDs rather than a cold cathode. It's a good thing, as I understand it - lower power, for one thing, but not any actual new display tech where the LEDs form the pixels as in OLED displays.

Re:LED Display?

[ryanov]

It is common terminology. I'm not sure what the problem is.

More for white, windows kickbacks

[fermion]

First, it is good that Dell continues to learn from Apple. Create products with a profit margin to make a profit. While Dell has to sell the no profit, they have the voluntary contribution program in the white laptops. I hopes this helps the stock.

Second, we have never a seen a better example of the MS kickback. In exchange for exclusivity, it is clear that MS is offering some financial incentive. Linux is only sold on the smallest machine. It makes no sense for Linux not to be sold on all machines, except that MS does not want it so, and has the money to pay for the privilege of exclusivity.

Re:More for white, windows kickbacks

[klossner]

Linux is only sold on the smallest machine.

You've got that just backwards. Linux is sold on any size machine -- click "Build Yours" and you can increase disk and memory. However, Windows is available only on the machines with larger disk.

Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[TheGreatGraySkwid]

I was actually considering one of these until I took a close look at the keyboard.

They moved the quote key.

Look at it! The '/" key has been relocated from right next to your pinky to somewhere weird! How the fuck am I supposed to touch type with that monstrosity? WTF!

Anyway, buyer beware.

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[sammyF70]

If you want something in that class with a decent keyboard, check out the Acer Aspire One.
Bought one for 329 euros a few days ago, and its keyboard is really good (I can type blind with it .. that's how good it is).
Only stupid design decision is to put the page up/page down keys directly above the cursor keys.

Apart from the Linpus distro which is a bit touchy when it gets to updating some libs, I don't regret the buy

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[Blakey Rat]

I'd love to buy the new Acer Aspire One model 1447, but where in hell do I actually get one? It's been "released" now by Acer for over two weeks, and I can't find a single retailer anywhere with one to sell. (I started with Acer's own "where to buy" list.) It's just ridiculous; don't announce, then release, products that people can't actually buy.

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[RegularFry]

That's the one thing that annoys me about my eee 701 - I have to press 3 keys to get a | character. On a linux machine. Yeah, that was smart...

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[Anonymous Coward]

> Apart from the Linpus distro

I never heard of that distro before seeing the Aspire page there, but I have to say: Worst. Marketing. Name. Ever.

Linpus: Linux... new and improved, with extra pus!

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[sammyF70]

yep. Something similar crossed my mind when I read about it at the shop.

Thankfully, it's not as bad as its name. It's based on Fedora8, and uses a slightly modified xfce desktop. My biggest complaint with it is that stuff stops working if you install the wrong things from the fedora repos, but that might just be the Acer part of the pus.

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[Zebedeu]

I think I've seen it available at least at amazon.de.

That probably doesn't help you a lot, but at least now you know they're selling them somewhere* :-)

*albeit with the euro-ripoff-tax.

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[MBGMorden]

Companies have gone insane when it comes to keyboards. Generally, I don't replace keyboards very often because when I find one that I like, I typically stick with it. For years I had used an old mech switch Smith Corona, but it doesn't play well with my USB KVM that I use now (too many adapters to go through I guess). Still, I'm using a fairly plain Silicon Graphics USB keyboard from many years ago. I got it at a closeout sale for like $10 brand new long ago so I'd have a USB keyboard in the pile o stuff (this was when USB was the newest thing).

When looking at the new keyboards in stores though, not only are they screwing with the layout like you mentioned, but even desktop keyboards are now shipping with mother-frakking LAPTOP keys on them. *LAPTOP KEYS*. In the name of all things holy what idiot decided that this was a good idea?!?!? Every one I know hits those little keys that move done a fraction of a milimeter (giving you darn near NO tactile response) and have so little dip between the keys that you can barely feel the breaks. When I travel I purposefully pack a full size keyboard in my suitcase to use on my laptop (in hotel rooms anyways - I suffer they built in kb at hotspots).

Oh well. Rant off. The whole industry is going crazy. I don't know if it's the Blackberrys or mobile devices making them think that everyone hunts and pecks these days, but it's certainly getting harder and harder to actually TYPE on a keyboard.

I'm thinking of just dropping the money on a really nice USB mechanical switch unit and hoping that it lasts a few decades . . .

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[salimma]

The packages that Linpus (or Acer) customized for their laptops really ought to have an epoch-bump, so that they do not get replaced by newer packages from the Fedora repos.

That commits Linpus and Acer to provide security updates for those packages, naturally.

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[Zapperino]

They moved the quote key.

Look at it! The '/" key has been relocated from right next to your pinky to somewhere weird! How the fuck am I supposed to touch type with that monstrosity? WTF!

It looks to me like the slash key is in the same place as usual. See http://www.laptopmag.com/uploadedImages/Multimedia_Assets/Images/2008/Reviews/laptops/dell_inspiron_mini_9679g.jpg

Maybe you saw the single-quote/tilde key moved from upper-left on a standard desktop keyboard down to the right of the spacebar?

Re:Look at the keyboard before you buy!

[TheGreatGraySkwid]

That's "apostrophe or quotation-mark", not quotes around the slash.

Re:Needs an HD option

[SlashDotDotDot]

Just out of curiosity, why do you drop your computer so much? Of all the laptops I've ever owned, I think I've only dropped one once.

Re:Needs an HD option

[Prof.Phreak]

I too own Eee (and dropped it plenty of times), but I'm not impressed with SSD's power `saving' (nor heat!)---as much as everyone seems to say they're ``better'' than real HDs... I think my Thinkpad is more energy efficient than the Eee.

Durable, yes, but not altogether better.

With 4, 8 and 16 GB of RAM...

[davidsyes]

It seems that mini-laptops such as these almost REQUIRE the user to carry extra/external storage media/um. If one is to put Mandriva or PCLinuxOS, or SUSE or Fedora, etc, on it, say, and add even just 1/2 of the available popular mag-distributed DVDs, one would be short on space in a short period of time after adding personal /home/user/user's-files.

Another thing: I am soooo sick and tired of those kiss-ass computer makers running adverts such as "[Dell/Toshiba/Fujitsu/Sony/HP/et al] recommends microsoft (operating system) (for all your computing needs)", as IF there is no Linux/FreeBSD/BSD available. IF windows WERE all there was, then there'd be no NEED for ms to payola these guys to even say such slogans/subliminal types of messages.

It would be nice if some of the US advertising laws would have to follow some European laws where product placement cannot disparage or misrepresent other competing products. Even better, it would be nice if some products (such as operating systems) were required to list at least 4 (or some number of) competitors or near-competitors. This way, mshaft would not keep getting the near-free ride they get.

If those adverts said, "microsoft recommends vindoze wista instead of (Ubuntu/Mandriva/PCLOS/Red Hat/SUSE/Fedora/et al) for all your computing needs (such as surfing wired or wirelessly, burning CDs/DVDs/watching DVDs, creating web sites, writing programs, composing music, managing servers, doing some CAD, hosting content, learning to type, studying astronomy, and a few dozen other things that ALL of these OS' can do equally as well as or better than our own wista).... See you sales person for a demo/floor comparison!", why, then Linux/Open Source would probably finally get some improved/increased professional polish, Linux-specific vendor drivers, more press, and increased loosening of ms' illegally-obtained near-death-grip control of the market.

Now, if only Linux land comes up with a true end-user WYSIWYG database/front end like Lotus Approach. If only i could legally get my hands on win XP pro to replace vista (the piece of crap it is, using 1.5 GB RAM and nothing to show for it relative to XP -- and to Linux as regards graphics bells and whistles), which is crippling two of my Lotus SmartSuite apps....yeh, IBM might have released patches, but STILL....

Finally, what'll REALLY be awesome for mini-/mid-full-size laptops/portables will be unpluggable/swappable video chip modules so that users can get more out of their graphics-related task software. Not necessarily to increase time between hardware upgrades, but to give more flexibility for situations when weaker video options limit us. For example, it would be nice to not have to buy external bulky video splitters. My backpack already is at 35 lbs, what with my 8.5 lb, 17-in display, dual-hard drive Gateway, my mouse, 3DConnexion, several books, about 2 inches of 8.5x11 papers, adapters, USB tip converters, index cards, and other miscellaneous stuff, with enough space to stuff in my lunch. Hell, even when I carried my 2001 Sony Vaio, in another, smaller back pack, with a portable Canon printer and wedge-like surge strip, one of my friends asked, "Man, what the *fuck* you got in there? You look like a BACKPACK bomber"...

Re:With 4, 8 and 16 GB of RAM...

[mollymoo]

You walk around with a 35lb backpack? Are you working up to training for SAS selection or something?

Re:With 4, 8 and 16 GB of RAM...

[Just Some Guy]

It seems that mini-laptops such as these almost REQUIRE the user to carry extra/external storage media/um.

My Eee seems to assume that the Internet is your external storage.

Re:Needs an HD option

[flyingfsck]

Speed. The real SSD devices are much faster than USB or Mini SD cards.

Re:Needs an HD option

[MoonBuggy]

Depends on what flash tech they're using. For a long time I made the same mistake you are by equating SSD prices to the cheapest other flash memory I could find - turns out that the stuff they throw into cheap SD cards and USB sticks is often (always?) slow enough to cause performance issues if it's your main drive. I can't remember the technical differences off the top of my head, and I know that some companies do make 'normal' flash memory (CF cards, particularly) that run at extremely high speeds, but the general gist was that cheaper = slower.

The eee 901 compromises by using a 4GB, high-speed 'proper' SSD and 16GB of cheap flash. If Dell are doing the same then it's a bit pricey, but if they're using fast memory all the way then it's a decent deal.

Radioactivity

[AndroidCat]

How much do the mini-cards for WiFi and Bluetooth add? Integrated on the motherboard, they wouldn't add much cost, but I'll bet they charge a wee bit for the cards.

Re:Radioactivity

[PsychoElf]

WiFi is inluded. Bluetooth was $20 on Dell.com.

Re:Needs an HD option

[Sentry21]

Yeah, and why not slap a GeForce 9800 on there too, a nice big 19" LCD display, full-size keyboard, and two quad-core Intel chips! Then it would be the best subnotebook ever!

Better than their last model...?

[mgk57]

Hope its better than their last one. Dell hasn't had the best track record over the years. I won't hold my breath on this one though :)

Re:Better than their last model...?

[Blakey Rat]

What last model? This is the first netbook Dell's made. (Thus the Slashdot story; it's actually news.)

Re:Better than their last model...?

[Danzigism]

A computer is a computer. Just because people who buy Dell's get the shittiest computer they can buy for $399 with an AMD Turion and 512mb of RAM running Vista Home Basic with a 1 year limited warranty with tech support in India makes DELL the bad guys? no, it makes people cheap bastards. spend a little more money, get a decent machine with a good warranty and ProSupport and you will be 100% satisified with Dell.

Re:Needs an HD option

[jrothwell97]

Often through carelessness and/or accident (it's small, so it's easy to forget there's a functioning PC in there). The thing isn't perfect (it's currently in for repair with a busted PSU) but god, is it rugged.

Re:Needs an HD option

[Onyma]

A true HD add a negligible amount of weight and no additional size. It has nothing to do with Small, it has to do with battery life. That however should be a consumer choice. A HD option should be offered for the customer who needs storage capacity on site and doesn't care about the limited life / can run off a plug. To just offer small SSD's for the power issue is very narrow minded of DELL. Myself, their limited capacity would be a deal breaker for me. I carry around an Acer Aspire ONE and it's 120 Gig is put to full use.

vs. Samsung Q1 Ultra...

[steppin_razor_LA]

The Dell laptop looks nice. It is about an inch larger than the Q1 Ultra and weighs about the same. My Q1U has a 60GB HD in it which is rather useful. An SSD would be nice, but with 8GB you wouldn't be able to get much use of it as a portable media player on trips.

The Dell is more of a traditional laptop while the Q1U is a tablet PC. I'm not sure that I really find the tablet PC functionality very compelling in day to day use (i.e. using a tablet w/o a keyboard/mouse combination is painful for anything but the shortest amount of work).

What really tempts me is the 1.6Ghz processor. Running Vista on 800Mhz = painful!

Re:Needs an HD option

[mollymoo]

I drop my Eee a lot more than I do any other laptop I've ever had. I even throw it, open and on, onto the sofa or bed. I never used to drop my previous laptop, an iBook; I was very careful with it. The one time I accidentally pulled it off the desk I felt sick, thinking I might have just cost myself a couple of days work and £1000. When I first dropped my Eee (4ft onto concrete) I was interested to see how it fared, rather than worried. The iBook cost over 4x as much and has a shiny case and a hard drive. It's really very refreshing to have a computer which is very cheap and has no moving parts (other than the fan). I feel no need for a special padded bag or to give it any more consideration than I would a paper book. People are careful not to drop their laptops for the same reason they're careful not to drop Faberge eggs - they're expensive and delicate. The Eee is neither expensive nor delicate.

crapletts are a source of cash

[NotQuiteReal]

So, write some crapletts that someone will pay to have placed on Linux.

Oh. Never mind.

Now you see the value of Windows.

Re:crapletts are a source of cash

[LWATCDR]

You know there was a time when you got useful software when you bought a computer.
Osborne and Kaypro both would bundle a good software package back when dino's roamed the earth.

At least Apple add in iLife.

Now you get a bunch of demos for stuff and other junk.

Darn dyslexia...

[southpolesammy]

Everytime I see the brand name, it always comes through first as "Dell Imprison".

On second thought....

And we just picked up a couple Acer Aspire Ones

[ducomputergeek]

8.9" screen, 1GB of Ram, 1.6Ghz Atom processor, and 120GB regular HDD...for USD 350 with XP Home oh and a web cam. We picked them up for our two sales reps who will be on the road a lot. I can't really see how the Dell is any better than that.

xp still available as an option for this?

[monkeybrainz]

i was told by a Dell rep that i was not able to purchase a laptop with XP after i saw it came with Vista. The rep said Dell could no longer sell XP preloaded as of this July. I ended up choosing Ubuntu, but what gives?

Re:xp still available as an option for this?

[Mista2]

MS say you cant sell or preload XP, except in markets where vista can't complete or operate 8)

Re:Relatively speaking.

[Hadlock]

As anyone who's ever installed Linux knows, it's an incredibly rare event when Everything Works On The First Try

 
Whowhat? I see you've been labeled as a troll, but I can't let that comment pass, even for a troll
 
. My computer, with intel motherboard and processor on modern, circa January 2008 hardware and intel supplied drivers, can't even sleep/hibernate properly using windows. Under ubuntu I have no power option issues, on either my desktop or laptop. The only hardware issue i've ever had was the fucking ridiculous broadcom driver issue, and that's entirely due to the legalities of broadcom drivers and open source. Hell I had more issues getting my realtek audio working under windows (3 hours worth of googling, and much driver wrangling later, and i'm a championship googler), while i heard that ubuntu drum noise the first time it booted up under linux. I haven't installed linux on anything circa 1998 in a couple of years, but it has less driver issues than XP does on modern, brand name hardware.

Config and rest of the world.

[Mista2]

Sorry, just to update, I found you can configure options on the 'buntu model. 1GB RAM, and 16GB Flash, BLuetooth and 1.3Mpix camera for US$494 8) Oh I hope we get them in New Zealand!

Re:Config and rest of the world.

[Mista2]

OK, I am now confused, the top windows XP one configured with the same hardware is only US$479 So the more expensive OS is obviously being given away for free? How many are jsut going to therefore get the windows only one, blow it away and install ubuntu anyway. Dell say, "well we offered linux and noone bought it", and MS will say, "look, people are happy buying XP based netbooks!" Urgh!!

Re:Config and rest of the world.

[DisKurzion]

Guess the linux users should just suck it up and pay the little bit extra, just to show support to the platform.

Ditch the webcam, same price. Small price to pay to show the support for the linux option.

Not sure about the limitations

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought an Acer Aspire One netbook for my wife. It shipped with Windows XP Home and has many of the limits you mention: 1.6GHz Atom processor, 8.9-inch screen, and 1 GB of RAM. The hard drive, however, is 120 GB. I had read about the 80 GB limitation before, but either Acer got around it, or Microsoft has raised its ceiling.

Re:Not sure about the limitations

[MojoStan]

As I understand it, Microsoft has deliberately restricted the systems that can be licensed with OEM WinXP by mandating that devices having screens smaller than something like 10" or 11", and no more than 1GB of RAM, a HDD no larger than 80GB, and a processor slower than 1.8GHz. (Someone feel free to correct me on the exact WinXP OEM Netbook licensing hardware restrictions, but I have read about there somewhere recently...)

I bought an Acer Aspire One netbook for my wife. It shipped with Windows XP Home and has many of the limits you mention: 1.6GHz Atom processor, 8.9-inch screen, and 1 GB of RAM. The hard drive, however, is 120 GB. I had read about the 80 GB limitation before, but either Acer got around it, or Microsoft has raised its ceiling.

Yup, Microsoft did "raise its celing". The new "limits" include 160GB hard drive and 14.1" screen (which seems large for a "netbook").

Re:Relatively speaking.

[solios]

Conversely, I booted an Ubuntu livecd on a Powerbook G4 - an established, FIXED, KNOWN hardware configuration, and right off the top the damned thing was useless without a mouse plugged in to get me some right click love.

Fail. Bigtime.

Nevermind the SCREAMING BUTTHURT I've had TRYING to get various linux distros to recognize various brands of SCSI cards in my old PPC 603s.

Linux may work awesome if you're using commodity hardware you can find in the bottom of a shopping basket as you walk into a Fry's, but gods forbid the developers should ever bother to tweak their driver code for a platform that has a one-button trackpad. Or worse, SCSI.

Or even worse - suppose you have an older SGI and want to (a) run something that isn't IRIX and (b) have video support. Pick one.

The driver coding goes where the cheap, plentiful hardware is. Which winds up leaving a number of potential users out in the cold, because the people who are TRYING to try linux just can't get the shit to work even half as well as the older, shittier, markedly less featureful operating systems.

(Conversely, I ran an obsd 3.x install on a Quadra 650 and damn if it didn't recognize the mobo AAUI and BOTH NuBus NICs as well as all other onboard hardware. Now that's quality!)

15 days = better than I'm hoping

[salimma]

I just ordered one, and the estimated shipping time is 10/10 (I had to customise the base Linux model, since the higher-end models are twinned irrevocably with XP).

So if the delay is only 15 days, hopefully the quoted estimate is overly pessimistic (that tends to be the case with Dell and Apple), and it will actually ship before the month is out. Sweet.

I personally prefer black to red. Red's more striking, yes, but I don't want a "look at me" laptop.

Exchange rate

[backwardMechanic]

Gee, thanks Dell. 350USD, 300GBP. That's some odd exchange rate - it cost an extra 150GBP to add a pound sign to the keyboard?

SAS Training? Negatory!

[davidsyes]

But, i have a friend who RAN with 80-120 plus lbs in a rucksack for 8 to 12-plus miles and did numerous other exercises for over a year to qualify for Special Forces training -- and it paid off. He made the cut after several competitive screenings. He qual-jumped numerous times from airplanes, and said, 'It was awesome! It was like jumping into a fucking television screen!' He had to kill field animals for survival, but said, 'that part was nothing. We (of his Asian ethnicity) eat ANYTHING.'

Re:Needs an HD option

[Frangible]

1.8" drives aren't significantly larger or heavier and hard drives actually use less power than cheap flash memory. It's only the very best SSDs that represent a power savings vs. hard drives. A good hard drive / notebook will also have the ability to detect impacts and will retract the head, making it no more vulnerable to that. (I've never dropped a notebook, personally...)

I own a Fujitsu P1610, which is smaller, lighter, has superior battery life, speed, display, and yes, a hard drive. Of course it cost $1800 and not $450, but hey, made in Japan quality and efficiency isn't cheap.

Could I get a SSD for my Fujitsu? Sure. And it would make some things faster. But considering how little power the HDD actually draws, it would have a minor effect on battery life at best, and that's assuming I got a high-end SLC SSD that actually used less power.

No, I don't really think a hard drive and a small laptop are mutually exclusive. While flash memory is cooler, go look at actual figures and you'd be surprised how good hard drives still are.

Um, no?

[danaris]

it does obviate the need for a refund

No, it bloody well doesn't!

The need for a refund is not because you got Windows when you bought the laptop and want to get rid of it. If all you want to do is get rid of Windows, that's not difficult.

The need for a refund is because you paid for Windows when you bought the laptop. How much of the price was the Windows license? I dunno, but unless they're going to start claiming that putting Windows on something is bad and thus should make it cheaper (which I personally agree with, but doubt that most would ;-) ), it should be some non-zero dollar amount.

Dan Aris

Re:Um, no?

[Fred Ferrigno]

The need for a refund is because you paid for Windows when you bought the laptop. If all you want to do is get rid of Windows, that's not difficult.

If I buy a car and immediately replace the tires with better ones, I can't take the stock tires back to the dealership and expect a refund. You paid for the laptop as a whole because that's the way the seller offered it to you and you accepted. It probably came with a lot things you didn't need, not just Windows, but unfortunately not everything is a-la-carte.

If all you want to do is get rid of Windows, that's not difficult.

Most manufacturers only support the installed operating system because they only tested that the laptop functions as advertised with that operating system. If Windows is unsuitable for your needs, then there is no supported way to access the features advertised. They can't tell you to download Ubuntu because then you'd have a legitimate reason to call them back when Ubuntu doesn't detect your wireless card, won't hibernate, or whatever.

If you can't use Windows and there is no other supported option, then the laptop as a whole is not functional for you. The manufacturer would probably take the return at that point. But since Dell actually does have another supported option, they *can* tell you to install Ubuntu -- or at least their custom version of it. Not being able to use Windows is no longer grounds to return the laptop.

Re:Um, no?

[Adrian Lopez]

"If I buy a car and immediately replace the tires with better ones, I can't take the stock tires back to the dealership and expect a refund."

No, but you can sell those tires on the open market. You can't do the same with an OEM copy of Windows.

Re:Um, no?

[Fred Ferrigno]

I agree wholeheartedly that you should be able to resell your copy of Windows. Still, that unfortunate fact was always a condition of purchasing the laptop. If that is a deal-breaker for you, the manufacturer will probably take the laptop back and you can buy a new laptop that doesn't come with Windows.

Re:Linux + Bigger HDD?

[lightversusdark]

Also including selecting a white case. No red though.

Re:Linux + Bigger HDD?

[salimma]

Looks like Dell and Apple disagree on which color scheme is more desirable.

Nope

[mzs]

I just added the base Studio 15 ($649) and the cheapest Mini 9 ($349) to my cart and got no such discount. If this is true, could someone please detail how to get the discount.

Re:Nope

[mzs]

Hmm I guess the deal now showed-up:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/05/doing-the-math-on-that-99-inspiron-mini-deal/

The problem is that you cannot get the cheaper notebook models and need things like the $25 more expensive color case, worthless AV software, and 3 year support too and it does not really come-out much cheaper.

Just placed an order

[the420kid]

Estimated ship date = 10/13/2008 dooh

xxWHr Battery?

[egnop]

What on earth does the WHr stands for?

I'm more interested in how long it will run on this battery... but that isn't on the website.

Any clue anyone?

in view of Chrome,

[davidsyes]

That probably makes sense an cents, but to me an external drive is 'personal', not shared, and not non-physical.

Re:Soldered in place...

[salimma]

Not sure the sales rep knows what (s)he's talking about; all the reviews so far seem to indicate that the laptop is fully upgradable (though you can't put a hard drive as there's not enough space for it).