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India Joins Nuclear Market
figona brings news that India will be allowed to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG). A waiver was approved yesterday that provided an exception to the requirements that India sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty. This means India will be able to buy nuclear fuel from the world market and purchase reactors from the US, France, and Russia; something it has been unable to do since it began nuclear testing in 1974 (which inspired the creation of the NSG). The waiver does not include terms to cut off access if India resumes nuclear testing, but the US Congress drafted a letter stating their willingness to do so. Opponents of the waiver have called it a "non-proliferation disaster."
Really? How much does a nuke cost these days?
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IP Address Finding
How many minutes until Pakistan demands the same treatment?
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
As a U.S. citizen, I must say that I am utterly embarrased at the actions of my government. On the one hand, there's no way that they'll let Iran or North Korea even so much as attempt to build a reactor, but as soon as India wants on the scene, oh well, no problem. After all, we wouldn't want them to cut us off from that practically free labor force, right?
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Any danger the arsenal represents probably wouldn't even double if it increased 100 fold. Nuclear fuel is something the world needs right now, if all the hype about global warming is as bad as they say it is. Not only that, but cheaper nuclear fuel -> cheaper power -> better economy -> less poverty.
The Unicode standard is over 20 years old. Why does Slashdot not support it?
India is already capable of building nuclear weapons, and are (theoretically) more than able to sell that tech to the highest bidders if they desired (I honestly don't see them doing so - just saying they can).
I'd be a hell of a lot more worried about Iran (which has arguably sponsored terrorism) than India (which has been nothing but friendly towards anyone who isn't Pakistan, and the latter for obvious reasons). While yes things may change, I just don't see India as being the type to sell nuclear anything, to anyone, in the foreseeable future.
Iran OTOH? Well, what are the non-proliferation folks doing about that? Not much, from the looks of it. If they want to concentrate their efforts in any particular direction, I'd have them staring a bit more to the west of India...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Excellent !
If one country has nukes, all countries should have nukes. Hell every home should have it's own nuke (or two) After all they're supposed to be deterrents aren't they ?
After all if only one chimp has a big stick he can make the rules, and he's probably an idiot, so we don't want that.
Mutually Assured Destruction was the "in phrase" I think :)
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
I'll bet it looks like the Johnson Smith catalog.
Fissionable Uranium - part no. #34-88091 - Whether its to power a city or to level a city, you'll be the envy of your friends with your very own pile of fissionable uranium. Comes in high-quality display case with certificate of authenticity. Color our choice please. No gift wrapping available for this item. Monogramming available for $10
$79,999,999.99
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
I read first "Indiana Jones Nukes Market" Must have been the economy news from last week and CNN story "U.S. seizes two mortgage giants" which popped up just before.
Whoever comes to power get ready for the nucluer and other alternative energy boom ...another dot com on its way:)
--too optimistic.
The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is built on three pillars; non-proliferation, disarmament and peaceful use of nuclear technology. Only the third has had any real success; proliferation continues, with Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea having gained nukes and South Africa, Libya and Iran having got most of the way. Existing nuclear powers have yet to disarm in any significant way, with the Brits making the most progress (fewest nukes out of any of the official powers) and we've still voted to renew our "deterrent".
The only thing remaining in the NPT for non-nuclear nations is some help on power generation. I can't see it lasting long; we may see countries withdrawing en masse in the future.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
As a U.S. citizen, I must say that I am utterly embarrased at the actions of my government. On the one hand, there's no way that they'll let Iran or North Korea even so much as attempt to build a reactor, but as soon as India wants on the scene, oh well, no problem. After all, we wouldn't want them to cut us off from that practically free labor force, right?
Those countries don't have a job theft(aka offshoring) industry to protect.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Gee, why am I not surprised that an exception gets created as soon as the US re-enters the civilian nuclear market after many years of stagnation.
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
The nuclear non-proliferation treaty is in shambles due to American hypocrisy. We're basically telling countries that if you develop nukes (like India) we'll invite you into the club and reward you with more technology. Also countries like Iran will see that if you don't develop nukes you'll be invaded (like Iraq) and if you do you'll be given free oil and other subsidies (like N. Korea).
I know you right winger's won't like to hear this but it is due to: Bush's incompetence/lack of principles. When will you guys get it that he was/IS an absolute disaster for this country and the world? He cut the budget to secure Russian nuclear materials and he makes these short term deals that create long term problems. If we have another "Average" guy (gal) in the whitehouse this country has had it. Really.
Forgot Russia too. Amazing though, that at this stage the US would agree to cooperate with Russia. I guess money talks.
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
Lets find three neighboring countries that have a history of inter-ethnic and religious violence, sell them nuclear technology and then see what happens.
davecb5620@gmail.com
*bzzzt* - Russia was admitted to the original Non-Prof club during the Cold War by treaty, when they had a nuclear weapons fleet that matched the US'. When the Cold War ended, they had tens of thousands of nuclear warheads (up to many multiple megatons for some of 'em) and a damaged economic infrastructure (at the time) that lent itself all too easily towards selling a few of the warheads on the down-low.
We basically got very nice with Russia to prevent some jackass from buying/stealing a nuke or two and then using them somewhere else.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Don't buy into the propaganda about Iran getting nuclear weapons. It's just part of the hype for the Iran war. Iran abandoned its weaponization program several years ago and is member of the NPT. Furthermore, nuclear weapons are forbidden on religious grounds. India, like Isreal, is not a member of the NPT has made nuclear weapons and tested them without provocation. You can expect Iran to produce significant amounts nuclear power in the near future, but they will not produce any nuclear weapons. The U.S. is in fact rewarding nonparticipation in international institutions in some countries and punishing compliance in others simply because they represents they threat to its control over the world order.
As a certified nuclear country, does this mean they will get a permanent seat in the UN security counsil? Being the number 2 country in terms of population should also give some weight to such a claim. Or mightbe a better idea, can we simply get rid of the permanent members in the council and let them be elected like everyone else?
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
Will the Americans never learn (No because they never study histroy, even their own, Iraq, Afganistan .. any one). The only reason they are doing this is because they want to use India to keep Pakistan in check. This will work fine untill India desides to go its own way and thumbs their one billion noses at the United States. Of course by then it will have all the technology they need not to mention a growing economy.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
People in the US especially seem to think of India in terms of snake charmers and cheap IT, forgetting that we are the second largest nation on earth, with genuine security concerns.
With China sitting to our east and making noises (usually, very loud noises) and a particularly unstable Pakistan to the west who got most of their nuclear tech from China, we really don't have a choice.
Besides which, far too many other pieces of tech cannot be sold to India because they may kinda sorta have some possible application in one corner of the fine art of nuclear weapons manufacture. This can finally stop now.
Finally, the whole deal means that we can now start having safety equipment for our nuclear program, which we haven't been able to obtain for years now.
Anyway, you probably don't know the amount of flak the government has taken over this deal... There's talk from lots of sides about "selling our sovereignty", because there will now be periodic inspections of all nuclear facilities by the IAEA.
Anyway, Arbitrarily restricting possession of nuclear weapons to those nations that tested before 1967 is not exactly a solid foundation for the NPT. It should have been quite blindingly obvious right back then that several nations, even reasonably stable ones, would have severe reservations about such an imbalanced treaty.
Anyone know why India is not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty? I'm not sure if this makes a significant difference or not but it's strange that India wouldn't join it and give some measure of assurance to other countries who could be supplying the technology. There must be a good reason why though.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
I read this as "Indiana Jones: Nuclear Market" and was very hopeful that a 5th movie was coming out. This is much less exciting.
Looks like US now knows who really is against Terrorism.
The neo-con republicans sold our technology to Turkey and Pakistan back in the 80's. Pakistan never figured it out. Sadly, W has done quite the job covering for traitors. Hopefully, Obama will lift Sibel Edmunds gag order AND out ppl like pearle and other neo-cons.
I don't quite understand what this is being potrayed the way it is in the media. Especially here at slashdot where I thought it was fair assumption that most of its readers are bit more educated than average bunch that can discern fact from, "fluff". Hence are couple of things for everyone to know: India's first nuclear test was on May 18, 1974, hence a fair assumption it has had a nuclear weapon ever since. India also has a nuclear capable missile atleast since 1988.(lookup Prithvi) This nuclear deal is for fuel for Power plants Part of the deal is an agreement that India will open up its civilian nuclear facilities for inspection (Before this, it was 0 access) India also has approx 25% reserves of Thorium (nuclear fuel of future), so it'd make sense to let it in for current, "Uranium" fuel to somehow guarantee, "Thorium" supply in future. Indian government itself is taking a beating at home because its being seen as a way to suppress India's nuclear ambitions by west. Power(electricity) is one the major problems in current India, and having more of it can only be beneficial to the society at large. On the other hand, only exception I see to all this is that India's Military/Defense/Weapons Nuclear sites are still off-limits to inspections, and this deal can possibly free up more spent nuclear material for India to experiment with. That should have been accounted for in a bit more responsible manner.
I am at loss with words...
We have a huge power crisis in India. We need nuclear power desperately while we find safer means of generating power. The rich have uninterrupted power or can generate their own. The middle class gets shafted in the bargain. This is good news for the Indian middle class.
Those bombs are stockpiled there, but are not under control of those govs. We can take them out of there if something looks wrong.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
There have been several proposals on this line before, but they've always been vetoed by China.
Or dont you know the Pakistanis were given their nukes by the Chinese. The country is a feudal military dictatorship. Simply not the kind of society to be able to develop Nukes on their own. They are good enough to take Chinese nukes and rebrand them though.
**Life is too short to be serious**
BOOOOOM!!!
Please come again!
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
No, none of us ever read history.
And we are terrified of global capitalism, which is why we fight it so hard.
Think harder.
Many of the local shops near me have "No Nukes" signs in their windows. Many have been out of stock for months, or years. There's no telling when they will get new shipments of nukes.
I hope India opens an outlet in my neighborhood.
Have gnu, will travel.
Am I the only one that read the title as "Indiana Jones Nuclear Market?"
Read this latest, from the American Institute of Physics: http://ptonline.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_61/iss_9/47_1.shtml Scroll down to the bottom and look at the bullet points: # In 1982 China's premier Deng Xiaoping began the transfer of nuclear weapons technology to Pakistan and, in time, to other third world countries. Those transfers included blueprints for the ultrasimple CHIC-4 design using highly enriched uranium, first tested by China in 1966. # A Pakistani derivative of CHIC-4 apparently was tested in China on 26 May 1990. --- Why was this published only now? The US has known about this information for quite some time, but sat on it, for security reasons. But now the US is finally telling China that enough is enough, and that it can't expect to wantonly proliferate nuclear weapons technology without facing consequences.
If they were to have a signatory to the NPT, they might have stood a chance.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
ALL Nuclear powers have first strike policies. ALL OF THEM. Basically, if they are being overrun by another country, they will use them. This include USA, Russia, China, England, France, Israel, and I am quite sure India and Pakistan. In fact, if not for the nukes, I suspect that one of china, India, and Pakistan would have invaded the other by now. As it was, China had no issues with attacking India before they had the bomb. They now do a lot of subtle manipulation esp. on the eastern state, and now on the northerns.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
India has one of the largest resources for thorium. Thorium can be used in an alternative nuclear cycle that is much less wastefull and produces far less highly radioactive waste (not actinides). These reactors would probably not need solid fuel assemblies, like they are used in the west. What is for sale in the west is a technology that produces much more waste, has a risk of being turned into bombs (you can't with thorium) and keeps you dependent on delivery of very expensive fuel assemblies (that is how the nuclear companies make their money).
That last part is probably the intention: keep India (and all other buyers) dependent on a supply that you can take away again. It would be much better if India would sell some thorium reactors to the west, that would save a lot of hazardous waste.
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
How the fuck is this flamebait? This poster made a valid point. A post is not flamebait just because it disagrees with your beliefs.
than us. As it stands, the rules are set up such that ONLY the dems and pubs compete. No OTHER party will have a chance. Even now, the debates are done so that it is just dems and pubs. Really, how is that different? In Iran you have a small group of ppl deciding who can run. Same here.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It took since 1974!
This is more insightful than half the mindbendingly ignorant rants I have to read on /.
Go somewhere random
Not Pakistan -- the U.S. is doing this in order to empower India as a balance against China.
However, any weapon can be turned against its user. China will now give nuclear bomb technology to Mexico.
Interesting concept. Indy 5 already in production.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
lol, I read Indiana Jones...
Somehow I read this title not once but twice, and my brain registered:
Indiana Jones Nuclear Market
In this one, the Ruskies are trying to sell their Nukes at an outdoor market in Bangledesh. Riots ensue, hats are lost then recovered, bullwhips are used, snakes cursed. move along.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, now would it?' -Albert Einstein-
India is trustworthy unlike the islamic government of pakistan i mean the whole reason we have a problem with iran and syria is because pakistan sold them whatever they could.
India on the other hand HAS NEVER TRADED OR GIVEN AWAY ANY OF IT. They are only using it as self defense against the warmongers in Pakistan and their Chinese Overlords
It's interesting with all the things changing so fast and on their own you would think that people could've been a little better prepared. I still have faith and courage to get through this but how are you guys faring?
I've been looking at some of the numbers and some of them don't add up. Certain things like implied costs as opposed to real trade of currency. Immaterial costs not tangible ones. With the threat of big trouble among the horizon maybe we should focus on what's really going on here so we can honestly fix the problem. People have self interests but to what cost and are people really this suicidal when push comes to shove? What is their motivation to go to these extremes? Will we even listen? Should we even care? I ask because these should be important questions we need to ask ourselves.
Find the benefit to the lie and I think things could open up a bit. Miscommunication isn't always directed by intent. Sometimes it's best to appear ignorant and stupid then to be labelled as manipulative and corrupt. What do I know though. I'm a wild man within the wilderness yelling to myself. Labels always seem to win out.
One more thing outside of this sermon. For all the people talking about Indiana Jones, learn how to press the Reply button. Either that's the problem or we got massive hivemind going on here on an epic scale.
This must be a great news for American Cos. specializing in nuclear plant erection technology. With sanctions lifted this must open huge opportunities for them in a vast market like India. Having said that Indians could have waited little longer and got what they are getting now without sacrificing what they are doing now.
This is shite. How the fuck does can a treaty with the words "Non-Proliferation" in it's title allow other country to purchase Nukes at all? Note, I am not against India buying Nukes. I am against these power-crazed bullshit government officials who think that because they hold a piece of paper in their hand, they have some goddamned god-given right to 'absolve' another country and allow them nukes. The 'Treaty' should be thrown out and renamed: "Global Nuclear Cooperation Treaty", or something. FFS. This shit drives me nuts.
The whole point of the NNPT was that countries could access nuclear technology by relinquishing their access or intention to develop a nuclear weapons program. India originally didn't sign because it wanted the right to develop nuclear weapons, the international response was to not supply India with nuclear technology. India responded by developing a string of (some failed) nuclear power plants across their country to develop the technology internally.
Q. If India's intention is to only develop power for peaceful purposes then why not just sign the NNPT?
A. Because America wants to use India as a test bed for new nuclear technologies for when the political climate is more favourable in the U.S toward nuclear power plants.
A. Because India *still* maintains the right to develop a nuclear arsenal.
Neither of these political goals can be achieved unless there is a formal program to allow supply to India of nuclear technology. While I am not particularly concerned that India would use nuclear weapons first, I have *no doubt* that India would use Nukes if provoked, especially by Pakistan. This is not a good development in terms of reducing weapons stockpiles and considering the U.S establishing a nuclear warning system in Europe, it appears the stage is set for a new, multi-front, Cold war.
I grew up with a Cold war, it's a shame we can't do any better for our children.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
cut the bullshit.
yes, it was muslims who sought independence. there are lengthy documents with contemporary footage and testimonies of the actual leaders, delivering speeches at that day.
Read radical news here
in countries which adopt the state religion as islam (and naturally they have the controlling dominant population as muslim), all newborn are registered automatically as muslim. its very hard to get something else written in the record of your kid in some countries.
turkey for example. supposedly it has 95% muslim population, yet only 50% of them ever cares about any mosque, and only 30% actually practice. the only things about islam many will see in their lifetimes are funerals when someone die.
Read radical news here
Actually this incident was preceded by the gruesome murder of a reverand Hindu leader on the hands of Christian activists
http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-15973.html
afterwards, that matters.
in u.s. and france, democratic pluralist regimes were established, based on human rights concepts outlined and developed by 18th century enlightenment. (btw, you are still basing your entire society on these even today).
Read radical news here
iran is a democracy ?
all the process is controlled by the religious leaders through the real power that is the revolutionary guard.
dont ever fall into the misconception that this is a military force - rev. guard is actually ac omplete state within state complete with its own companies, enterprises, secret police force, army, intelligence agency and so on.
iran is not a democracy. its a charade.
Read radical news here
it contains 2 very valid points that noone has ever mentioned in the thread up to this point.
spending karma for your reading convenience here.
Read radical news here
I do not understand which history you are talking about. You cannot use 'history' as a generic statement to substantiate any wild theories that you can blow out! Pakistan is an 'ally' of US, has been for decades! Why would US have to go and reach out now to India, just to keep a check on their ally? Besides, the agreement if for civilian use of nuclear power and not military aid. There are far more economic reasons behind this than petty 'cold war' mentality (not saying there isn't any, china needs to be balanced out...). If you had read any of the history (which you seemed to advertise), you would know that india is one of a handful of countries with a consistent foreign policy of non alignment and peaceful negotiations. US has demonstrated lack of judgement in numerous occasions, but, then most them were military and covert actions.
They are surrounded by 2 countries that are inheritently towards them (pakistan/china). In the world, they have NO OTHER REAL ENEMIES (small countries that they do not get along with, but pose no military threat). THey said that they will not use nukes against none nuked countries. Well, other than isael, no nuke country has much to fear from another country. Then it says that it will not initiate attacks with nukes. Again NONE of the current nuke countries are going to do that. Heck, even Iran is not going to do that. Why? Because what use is the land of Isreal, if radioactive? Any bomb they make will have HEAVY radiation spread through that small country (and blowing downwind to SA and even themselves).
Nobody is going to first strike (the rest of world would at least shun them). However, ALL THE PLAYERS will strike if they believe that they are about to lose control of an attack on them, or if believe that an attack is immanent against their missiles. This is more likely for those countries that have VERY FEW missiles. They would be worried about losing their capability.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Why was this published only now? The US has known about this information for quite some time, but sat on it, for security reasons. But now the US is finally telling China that enough is enough, and that it can't expect to wantonly proliferate nuclear weapons technology without facing consequences.
Wrong. The reason is because the US economy is tanking, and this is election year. The ruling party needs to divert peoples attention elsewhere, and China is just the target of the decade.
But, guess what? The US public will just swallow it hook, line and sinker.
my eyes played tricks on me, read that
"Indiana Johns Nuclear Market"..and i said WTF!!
The lunatic is in my head
I'm calling my bomb shelter contractor first thing tomorrow morning.
Have a good one :-)
Anyone else read 'India joins' as Indiana Jones?
Indiana Jones Nuclear Market!!
No wonder Indian ministers threaten trade war with the US unless we accept more H1B outsourcing visas.
They're just being friendly.
Knowing Bush/Clinton/McCain/Obama, we will surrender to their hardball tactics.
Russia was invited into the NPT club via treaty, in order to control tens of thousands of warheads. India is being given a temporary exemption so that US (and Russian and French) businesses can quickly sell them fuel and tech.
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
At first glance, all I saw was "Indiana Jones Nuclear Market" ;)
I can't spell. Better read here how it is spelled by the hive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protactinium-233
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
You are thinking on correct lines but I would beg to differ from you slightly. You rightly said that United States has no deep love for India or any respect for its democracy, energy needs, peaceful endeavours, poverty abolishment etc etc etc as they keep on reading out to the press. US wants to check China's wicked growth by growing up India a little to par. To check Pakistan, India never needed anyone's help. Correct military data and the wars that happened in history can prove that.
On the other hand, China's military might is very comparable to US as on-date and may soon even surpass it. The kind of political scenario which China is generating in Asia(with smaller nations like Nepal going communist and getting closer to China), soon a scenario could arise when a communist Asia would be daring the west. With this fear deep inside, US wants India(the best candidate in Asia for various obvious reasons) to be of some considerable size. Hence, India growing is for your own good.
Amidst, all these stinking politics, I as an Indian am hoping to benefit at-least by few Watts of power per day to make my life better.
Major Problem in near future- WWWIII
How do feel about this?
UN once the most powerful and influential organization bring the slightest hope to a chattered person, state, or country is crippled. Is is possible to bring world order. I believe so, but people now in general have become are nothing more than the ferocious wild animals roaming in the jungles. Its in the people to demand this of their government before anything further.
please feel free to comment..........