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'Super Steel' Sought For Fusion Reactors
Smivs writes "New research shows how
steel will fail at high temperatures because of the magnetic properties of the metal.
Scientists say an understanding of how the Twin Towers collapsed will help them develop the materials needed to build fusion reactors.
The New York buildings fell when their steel backbones lost strength in the fires that followed the plane impacts.
Dr Sergei Dudarev told the British Association Science Festival that improved steels were now being sought.
The principal scientist at the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA) said one of the first applications for these better performing metals would be in the wall linings of fusion reactors."
...it will be only the third time that fire has melted steel.
Ceramics Compound Steel with NanoMesh stabilizing support. Or a couple of layers of transparent aluminium ... oh wait, we ain't supposed to have that yet.
Would the fact that we've learned something new about steel thanks to the way the Twin Towers fell, silence the conspiracy lovers?
No, of course not. What the hell was I thinking there?
So, are you speaking of shameless steel? :)
Or how useful it will be for attracting funding for science. Hate the game, not the player.
everyone knows all you have to do is strip a gundam and you can have all the super steel you would ever need.
Monstar L
These are statistical inevitabilities!!
What's really funny, is you actually said something true, and completely contradicted what you wanted to say. Self-ownage FTW! (or whatever)
What kind of nonsense is that? Anytime something undesirable in the world happens no one is able to learn anything from it? Or are you merely asserting no one can openly say they learned anything from it? Yep, science should take a back seat to sensibilities. Excuse me while I roll my eyes. And because I am a prick I must note that the world trade centers collapsing is a footnote compared to the numerous other tragedies that people don't bother to learn about let alone cry about seven years later. Terrible that those people died but it is minuscule compared to many other losses of life in other countries.
"Steel isn't strong, boy. Flesh is stronger. Look around you." Thulsa motions to some of the thousands of followers surrounding his mountain who worship him as the mouthpiece of Set. He points up to the top of a cliff, "There, on the rocks, that beautiful girl." He motions to the girl, "Come to me, my child." The girl steps off the cliff and falls to her death. "That is strength, boy. That is power: the strength and power of flesh. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength of your body, the desire in your heart. I gave you these...."
Who run Barter Town?
For those haven't been introduced to steel and its myriad properties (depending upon alloy composition), here's a background article for you.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
The highest performing 'steel' currently seems to be what's called '"maraging steel', but calling it steel seems a bit odd since the alloy contains next to no carbon.
Tungsten is a lot tougher than just about any steel, and it's often used the coating alloys of for example drill bits used in industrial CNC applications.
The point of this article eludes me.
All rites reversed 2010
I made an incorrect moderation on this comment. Commenting to cancel
siener's youtube channel
Unfastened coins. Truthiness factor 11!
If it worked and we can make Fusion Reactors. This would leave some irony to the terrorist.
The Terrist may think they won because once we go Fusion we won't need to protect our oil interests thus mostly ignoring that area of the world, except for the occasional humanitarian mission, thus reducing our influcene in their countries...
However because we are not funding those countries with money they end up bankrupt in far more trouble then with the US involved.
When the Terrorist actually win they loose, because their goals will lead to their destruction.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I disagree. I think it would be the most wonderful irony if a crucial piece of the technology required to provide humanity with a cheap source of energy came from their attacks. The only reason the theocracies in the middle east have any power is that they have a natural resource that the rest of the world needs. With commercial fusion, this evaporates (you can make oil for plastics from air and water if you have enough cheap energy).
Or would you rather that their deaths only benefited Al-Quaeda?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Everyone knows steel doesn't lose strength when heated up, it's magic and goes from being a full strength solid to instantly being melted into a liquid at 1500C!
Haven't the 9/11 conspiracy theorists taught these scientists anything???
Would the fact that we've learned something new about steel thanks to the way the Twin Towers fell, silence the conspiracy lovers?
No, of course not. What the hell was I thinking there?
Well, we're getting WAY off topic from the original story here but people deal with loss differently. Some Americans have a near psychotic desire to be a part of bringing justice to those responsible. 9/11 affected us all in different ways. From losing loved ones to losing a sense of security to losing our rights, everyone believes they've lost something.
I listened to a This American Life episode where a man whose mother was raped and killed spent a large part of his life going over what had happened. He even went so far as to go to the jail and interview one of the murderers. He was so convinced there was more to it than just a random robbery gone wrong.
The "Truthers" (as they call themselves) are trying to cope with this in a unique way where they will relentlessly seek the truth--to a fault. They won't ever be satisfied because the attacks were so inconceivable that there must be an equally outrageous explanation for them. Occam's Razor is not in their reasoning kit anymore.
Personally, I think we just need to let them have their community and leave them alone and give them the information they need. You can't change the way these people think and as Americans they have this right to believe what they want--so long as they don't go infringing on other people's life, liberty & pursuit of happiness.
Following World War II, the public's imagination has gone wild from JFK's assassination to 9/11. It's simply something that can no longer be avoided.
My work here is dung.
I know they produce stylish, compact and inexpensive wall-linings for fusion reactors, but the self-assembly is a fucking nightmare, and you always end up spending at least fifty quid on candles too.
Meta will eat itself
It is not as if high strength hasn't always been sought after in steels (iron-carbon alloy). INcluding high temperature strength. The usual solution is various nickel alloys starting with the austenitic stainless steels and going up from there (HK-40, HP modified).
Yes, we may yet find some interesting corners on phase diagrams, especially via combinatorial chemistry and high-throughput experiementation. But please do not pretent this search is anything remotely novel.
For many high temperature applications, the usual solution is cold wall designs with refractory (insulating alumina) linings keeping the load bearing steels cool. With or without a (thermal expansion problematic) liner (usually austenitic SS) as a membrane seal.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Steel is used so widely, in large part, because it's cheap... Iron is one of the most abundant elements on the planet. Many other materials exist that are stronger than steel, lighter than steel, handle MUCH higher temperatures, etc., etc.
For a fusion reactor, however, "cheap" isn't going to be all that important... More exotic materials that can better handle high temperatures would be easily within reach when you're able to generate that much power.
The article completely fails to explain why we, for some reason, MUST use some (not-yet invented) form of "steel" for the walls of fusion reactors. Boron Carbide, Tungsten, titanium, etc., sound like much better options for this application. While this article sounds like a flimsy excuse to exploit this anniversary.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
we used fusion devices to bring down the towers
Steel just isn't good enough, something like a fusion reactor needs more Magical metals, for example they could look into using Mythril or Adamantite for getting some super strong metal walls...
Translation:
My tatas are larger than my brain. I love cooked sushi. Help me Tom Cruise. I communicate with the mothershhip on the eve of the universal softball match.
At the moment its like saying "this will be really useful for when I genetically engineer a dragon".
I didn't think we were going to use some new "super steel" as the vessel lining (plasma facing component) in a fusion reactor/experiment. Current top contenders for this role are beryllium, graphite, tungsten, and moly. Most likely, some combination of them all.
The main chamber of ITER is currently set at beryllium - material with low atomic numbers are highly advantageous. I personally think liquid lithium walls are where its at, but I'm biased; thats what I did my research in.
However, a fusion reactor is going to be run with 'hot walls', where the vessel might be around 600 C, so I could see where you'd want an alloy that is still strong and can withstand 10+ T magnetic fields and not crap out. Of course, if we did come up with some low-Z refractory alloy, we'd probably use it in the first wall.
We didn't learn anything new. Whatever story you choose to believe, the only facts are that two planes flew into two of the strongest buildings on the planet, and then they crumbled like a house of cards. Structural failure, insider job, whatever; the only thing that could have provided any answers was scooped up and shipped off to China.
With all the evidence gone, all the rest is at best theories. And theories won't help you build any reactors.
Adventure, Romance, MAD SCIENCE!
Why not a month ago or a month from now Why today...?
No sig today...
The New York buildings fell when their steel backbones lost strength in the fires that followed the plane impacts. or not?
Aren't the magnetic fields in a Tokamak pretty intense? As in, you wouldn't want something ferromagnetic inside?
I thought the leading candidate was vanadium, for its low neutron capture cross section and quickly decaying activation products.
More specifically, magnetism causes steel to melt 100 stories down from the impact zone, leaving remnants like this: http://a986.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/72/l_a567c508f431db9f78e20057b5b59fb9.jpg
So your saying that the release of energy from the mass of 100 flaws of skyscraper falling wouldn't be able to shear and melt an iron girder, realy?! 9/11 was caused by a bunch of pissed off religious fanatics.
In the not too distant future, next Sunday A.D.
It's people! 'Super Steel' is PEOPLE!
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
if they build it in the USA then as long as they keep at least one high ranking fat cat and don't load the place with explosives the terrorists won't attack, so they should just build it out of united states flags they are resistant to almost every thing including corruption, theft and reason.
"bit shamefull to abuse this day, on which the world remembers the victims of this horrible disaster to make these statements how usefull it could be for science."
Every such calamity is worthy of study, because we learn things we do not expect and might miss otherwise. Had the Twin Towers been an accident instead of murder, their study would have been just as important (but with less emotional baggage).
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I think you need Rearden metal. -=rsw
There's always Rearden metal!
What do you mean, 'black magic'? A tube can be filled and if it is filled, when you fly your plane in, it gets in line and it's going to be destroyed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of fuel, enormous amounts of fuel.
...for a supply of Duke Nukems' balls of steel.
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
The 9/11 connection is just a PR plug, though -- those properties of steel have been known for a long time. (I can't guarantee they were known when the building were built, but certainly they were known prior to the event.)
There was a time when the crowd would ostracize you for answering even number one as TRUE....
1) The world is round TRUE/FALSE 2) The sun is the center of the solar system TRUE/FALSE 3) Santa is a fairy tale designed to keep kids in control during the year TRUE/FALSE 4) God is a fairy tale designed to keep kids/adults in control during the year TRUE/FALSE 5) Humans evolved from apes TRUE/FALSE 6) 9/11 was a controlled implosion TRUE/FALSE
Before writing the "truthers" off as silly, try and think back to when you believed in Santa and you slowly changed your world view as the facts started piling up against the whole idea..
Exactly there are a lot of things that don't add up in the 9/11 "attacks". WTC 7, footage of the pentagon not being released due to "security reasons", bush's presedency one of the most secret in history, e-mails a year later being destroyed. There are plenty of reasons why this needs to be re-investigated again because what the government is telling us isn't %100 Fact and thats something I would bet my life on.
The only reason why Theocracies on the middle east exist is that the USA needs them so they can pump out the resources of the country without having to care for the general population. They would not be able to do that with a democracy.
You realize the biggest theocracy (Saudi Arabia) existed long before anybody even knew there was oil there, right?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
but in reality their agenda is removing the rights of christians since they have no tolerance for that kind of action due to their beliefs
So by your logic I'm also "removing the rights of christians" if I choose to engage in pre-martial sex?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
...is NIST is correct about WTC7. If any small fire can take down a very strong steel building in a near-free-fall collapse, steel is way too unsafe in construction. This article is pure propaganda, rightly timed to maximize the inpact. You are living in a totalitarian state, my American friends. Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQSM.
So by your logic I'm also "removing the rights of christians" if I could engage in pre-martial sex?
There, fixed that for you :]
that was rejected by the status quo, and eventually became the status quo, there are about a million other fringe ideas, that stayed there
9/11 was done by al qaeda. there is no cover up. i'm sorry the real world is not as exciting as a steven seagal movie
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
in reality their agenda is removing the rights of christians since they have no tolerance for that kind of action
What kind of action? Going to church? Or whipping up homophobic hysteria?
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
I would rather have had that they did not die at all.
Good things and bad come from every major event, I don't mind them using gathered data and doing something positive with it, what i do mind is the shameless plug on this day.
Hahahaha, touche :)
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
what gays and lesbians want is the right to be gays in lesbians. what gays and lesbians do in the privacy of their own homes in no way affects you whatsoever
meanwhile, to deny what gays and lesbians want, that is, to be themselves, is "cramming down their throats", as you so homoerotically describe, the beliefs of fundamentalist christianity
in other words, to give gays and lesbians what they want doesn't negatively affect your rights and freedoms whatsoever
meanwhile, to give fundamentalist christians what they want dramatically infringes on the rights and freedoms of gays and lesbians
so you are angry that gays and lesbians do not tolerate your intolerance?
fine
but the idea is more rights and freedoms for everyone... except the right and freedom to deny someone else their rights and freedoms. understand that discrepancy?
what you want is intolerant. so to deny you is not intolerance of you. because intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. in fact, intolerance of intolerance is pretty much a good definition of tolerance
what gays and lesbians want does not hurt fundamentalist christianity at all: you are 100% free in a world of gay and lesbian rights to continue being an asshole
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
genetically engineered dragons might be very useful for fusion research
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Santa is St. Nicholas, a Catholic Saint. Therefore, FALSE. If you are a Catholic, you can pray to St. Nick (just don't get confused and pray to Old Nick, that would be bad.)
Certainly, the bizarre elements of the Santa story, such as his castle on the moon and his maniacal, laughing mechanical reindeer were added by fabulists. However, he's a genuine religious figure with supernatural powers, like Jesus, Amaterasu, Mao Tse-Tung, Prince Philip or Baron Samedi, if you believe in that sort of thing.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Super Steel? They're barking up the wrong tree.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
It's just someone trying to latch on to the inevitable 9/11 WtC links to promote their research. These facts about Iron/Steel have been known for some time. Materials research,and metallurgy, have been the subject of much research for well over a hundred years.
Carbon nanotubes and having amazing properties under tension, but aren't so great under compression. More simply put, carbon nanotubes are really strong string. But try as you might, you cannot build a building or reactor completely of tension materials (without changing the relative pressure presented by that which is to be contained. I.e, a balloon is a tension structure, but you have to fill it with pressurized air or water in order to give it structure). But tension can be used to distribute the load more favorably into compression structures. Think of the cables on a suspension bridge.
I am not an expert in materials science, nor an architect nor structural engineer nor metallurgist. Caveat Lector.
Outlaw steel in construction? You are insane. Steel is a great material. Industrial civilization is built on steel. If you want to go back to wattle and daub huts go right ahead, but if you try to make me or my society do so, we will kill you with swift bolts of steel.
is someone who willfully kills civilians in order to further an ideological agenda
its a valid definition
and furthermore, if the usa disappeared tomorrow, if the usa never even existed, there would still be "freedom fighters" in foreign lands killing civilians. because what terrorists are interested in is religious bigotry: restore the caliphate and exterminate nonbelievers. which is pretty much the opposite of what a "freedom" fighter does
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"Anytime something undesirable in the world happens no one is able to learn anything from it? Or are you merely asserting no one can openly say they learned anything from it? Yep, science should take a back seat to sensibilities."
Actually, in some circumstances, that is correct. For instance, the results of Nazi concentration camp experiments are strictly verboten, even if they do have data that could be used for the betterment of the human condition. I don't believe that data from the WTC collapses qualifies, but sometimes data IS contaminated by the means of it's creation.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
"You realize the biggest theocracy (Saudi Arabia) existed long before anybody even knew there was oil there, right?"
No it didn't. Oh, the land existed, and the House of Saud existed, but the entity we call Saudi Arabia exists solely because of the oil under their feet. Read just a little Middle Eastern history and you can learn a lot about how we got where we are today.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
I don't think they mean what you think they mean. ...and I'm sorry but I simply don't see reason whyc this was posted today, or what it has to do with the twin towers (apart from the loosest of connections).
Are people so desperate to say "Twin Towers" that any old story would do? If you want remembrance, why not do a proper remembrance article? Why this? Did this make any 9/11 victims feel like they were being remembered?
No sig today...
Yes. Are just started a project where we build eight story building out of unemployed people. It's very easy to stack them one on the other but after couple of stories they start to wobble. It seems like they don't have backbone for the job!
You don't know what you don't know.
I think it was the contents of your head that imploded.
You don't even need to think as exotic as that. Someone probably came along with a blowtorch and cut the beam during the rescue / cleanup operation. There are plenty of pictures of people doing just that. Indeed, the original picture linked was (deliberately) cropped to remove a couple of firefighters and a couple of cleanup crew standing right in front, behind and to the side of the cut beam. One of the crew is stood slightly to the left of the beam, bent over so his head is obscured but still visible.
As usual this is just another moronic "truther" picture which turns out to have a far more mundane and likely explanation. Just like their other moronic claims it will be recycled ad nauseum.
I agree with GP for two reasons:
1) That steel gets soft in fire has been known long ago, the collapse of the Twin Towers is not telling us anything new. Ask any blacksmith. For heat-resistant alloys check out things like jet engines, they already use suitable materials: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superalloy.
2) Keeping a nuclear fusion going is actually the more difficult task. If some experimental reactor (ITER?) can burn deuterium for a few minutes and has to stop only because of overheating walls, it will be quite a success.
Worry about the walls later.
C - the footgun of programming languages
10,000 years after humans destroy themselves in full up nuclear war, you'll find the parts made of MP35N lying at the bottom of the ocean. It'll be the only thing that's still shiny.
As for stronger steel; nobody in the building industry really cares. It might be nice for the nuclear industry, but I don't expect it to transition back to the original use. The problem with "stronger" is that most metals get more brittle. That's a bad thing in seismic regions, where the hysteresis of a ductile joint is used to mitigate the damage in a structure. The other problem is cost. High performance materials (and there are lots of them) generally are a significant premium over A992/A36 steel. Most owners would use bamboo and baling twine if the building code let them get away with it, if it mean being able to put marble in all the restrooms. (Oh, they'll say they want it done right, until they get the cost estimate. Then they decide they'll just do the minimum.)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
No it didn't. Oh, the land existed, and the House of Saud existed, but the entity we call Saudi Arabia exists solely because of the oil under their feet
Saudi Arabia gained it's modern borders in 1932. Oil wasn't discovered until 1939. It wasn't actively exploited until the late 40s due to WW2. You can argue that oil helps prop them up but the idea that we created these theocracies to get that oil strains creditability when they existed prior to the discovery of that oil.
Furthermore, blaming the United States as the GP did doesn't tell the whole story either. The United States didn't draw the lines on the map in the Middle East. The French, British and Turks did. The United States didn't conspire with Israel to seize the Siez Canal -- the French and British did. The United States never invaded Iran -- but the Russians and British have.
Our hands aren't clean by any means but this knee-jerk anti-Americanism that places all of the blame at our feet doesn't even survive a casual reading of history.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
At the moment its like saying "this will be really useful for when I genetically engineer a dragon".
Agreed. One of the problems to be solved if fusion reactors ever work is that the inner walls will, over time, become radioactive, which is a maintenance headache. If they could be made of some material that didn't become radioactive when exposed to heavy gamma radiation, that would be helpful, because then you could just turn the thing off and work on it, without having to use remote manipulators and robots.
So it's been suggested that running iron through an isotopic separation plant, like the ones used to enrich uranium, would be useful. The stable isotopes would be used to make the steel for the fusion reactor.
This idea might be helpful in reducing the operating costs of future fusion reactors, but right now, it's just a footnote.
"bit shamefull to abuse this day, on which the world remembers the victims of this horrible disaster to make these statements how usefull it could be for science."
For seven years now, the events have been used over and over again for political benefit, used to implement draconian legislation and launch wholly unrelated wars, and to extend the political careers of men who have nothing else going for them but fear-mongering.
Nobody that day was asking to be remembered as "true American heroes" for doing nothing more patriotic than trying to earn a paycheck in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nobody wanted to be used as political martyrs to extend the careers of politicians that, based on the returns from New York and New Jersey in the years since, they never would have voted for were they still living. At least using the incident as an impetus to more fully explore the properties of steel is actually useful and will help save and improve lives, which is far, far more noble than anything that their deaths have been used for to date.
freudian slip!
funny on a number of levels too ;-)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Huh, I had the dates mixed up - I thought oil was discovered THEN the borders were drawn.
My comment about "where we are today" wasn't blaming the US at all - the rest of the world, Europeans especially, have very convenient memories regarding how the Middle East and Southern Asia got that way. Oh, we're to blame for jumping right in the middle and taking advantage of it, and our relationship with Israel makes our lives harder. (Note that I support that relationship and believe it has been the right thing to do overall, but that doesn't make our lives any easier). But created the whole mess? Hell no.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
what gays and lesbians want is the right to be gays in lesbians. what gays and lesbians do in the privacy of their own homes in no way affects you whatsoever
I'm not so sure about that. San Francisco is clearly the leader in being gay-friendly, and look what they end up with:
Up Your alley Fair 2008
You can choose blurred, or unblurred pictures.
If this kind of public spectacle is what we end up with then maybe some stuff needs to be pushed back into the closet.
So, coincidentally, where homosexual rights have been most clearly advanced in this country, we end up with public displays of:
1. Nudity
2. Masturbation
3. Urination on other people
4. Oral sex
5. BSDM
You'll note that several celebrants are men dressed up as boy scouts. I seem to recall on ongoing issue with the boy scouts and gay scoutmasters, yet here we have a rather creepy affinity displayed for boy scouts during an event that quite clearly is about gay sexual activities.
To be fair, I haven't seen a whole lot of lesbians engaging in this sort of behavoir.
I really don't care what two dudes do in the privacy of their own home, but it's instructive to see what happens when the city and community puts the stamp of approval on what passes for a 'lifestyle.'
No decorum, no decency. No self-restraint. Pedophiles wearing their desires on their sleeves. Public sex acts. Public humiliations (pissing on each other). Masturbating onto cheering crowds from a window.
Leaving aside simple blow jobs, several of the acts that occurred in that event are evidence of deep-seated, severe psychological problems suffered by the participants. Yet in the name of 'tolerance' and 'gay rights', we end up with these deranged acts celebrated amidst cheering crowds.
Being gay used to come with a great deal of shame. We have removed that shame, and in return, we see shameful, disgusting, revolting acts in public.
The participants of "Up your Alley 2008" quite frankly justify the stigma previously attached to homosexuality.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
1)RTFA. It's not as if the article (or the scientists mentioned in it) are acting as though we just now figured out that metal softens at high temperatures; in fact it specifically mentions the "blacksmiths knew this already!" bit. It's explaining that they're studying the process of how the metal weakens and softens so that they can design that property out of future alloys (a need not obviated by the ones described in your link). So yes, it is telling us things we didn't already know.
2)Why "worry about the walls later"? It's not like we can't study more than one thing at a time, especially when the results will be useful in far more applications than just reactors.
We weakened/melted steal in the propane forges all the time.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
That'd be a great name for a hair band.
The land shall stone them with the bread of his son.
Why do you conspiracy theorists have such a hard time believing that a super massive jetliner slamming into a building at hundreds of miles an hour, and then exploding in a massive, burning fireball in a contained area could bring down a building? You talk about demolition explosives... what do you think this was, anyway? This was no different than if our military had used guided missiles on the building, and I don't think anyone would have a hard time believing that missles of equivalent mass and explosive payload would take that building down.
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
purposefully or propagandistically
the issue with this parade is public displays of sexuality, something that would be equally disgusting were it a heterosexual event
shamelessness about sexuality is a genuine problem, i agree with you. so outlaw it, i agree with you. no one wants to see you getting it on in public. if you don't understand that, you should be punished. its a valid issue
but that some people have a problem with being shameless in public is nothing unique to homosexuality
so please, outlaw this disgusting parade. i support you on that effort
but don't think this parade is a direct result of gay rights or being gay. that's not intellectually honest of you. public shamelessness about sexuality is not unique to gay people. would you be equally disgusted if everything at this parade were geared around homosexual activities? of course you would. so be honest about what you really have a problem with here, and sotp trying to substitute it for an entirely unrelated issue
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
he certainly mistakenly kills civilians with his policies, certainly. and for this there is remorse and attempt at restitution. do you see al qaeda feeling sorry for killing innocents?
not that i agree with gw bush. not that i don't think gw bush is a complete moron
but to equate what gw bush does with what a group that tries to kill complete innocents on purpose and by surprise is not intellectually honest of you
let's put it this way:
1. guy falls asleep behind a wheel of a truck and crashes into a school bus, killing 10. he feels absolutely awful about it
2. guy purposefully tracks school buses coming and going, carefully calculating and planning for months when to strike and kill as many kids as possible, but he only kills 5
guy #1 kills 2x more than guy #2. but who is more evil? it is why in most societies there is a legal difference between murder and manslaughter. one is evil, the other is stupid. gw bush most certainly is not a terrorist, just a retard
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Add to that that normally when proving someone committed a crime, you have to supply a motive. Easy with the terrorists, but I have yet to hear a plausible explanation of why the government would want to blow up a huge piece of New York city plus their own building (the Pentagon). The attacks caused a recession, the collapse of the airline industry (which the government had to bail out), huge fees for the government to the survivors and I believe New York in emergency relief, endless hearings in Washington and that associated expense, etc. I have yet to hear a "Truther" explain why the government would want to cause itself all the misery for zero gain. It doesn't add up.
And no, it wasn't so the military could invade someone either... if that was the reason they wouldn't have blown up the Pentagon. That hurts the military and doesn't galvanize the public for war as well as blowing up something like the Whitehouse or capital building, or one of the many monuments in Washington. So yeah, "Truthers" don't have much of an argument here.
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
Don't touche me there!
Put a chunk of rebar in front of the business end of your oil burner and all you will get is very hot steel, nothing more.
I built a forge using the burner from an old oil-fired boiler. I could heat a truck halfshaft hot enough to tie a knot in, within a couple of minutes.
How hot do you think it needs to be?
With Carbon Fiber Composites and other composite materials it's possible to get much much stronger then steel, be totally inert to magnetic fields, more resistant to heat and can have much higher or lower thermal conductivities.
So why are they still even considering steel?
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
Don't forget Rearden Metal...
Most fires throughout history were just conspiracies undertaken by the masonry industry. For example, in 1906 they triggered and earthquake as a cover for their city-wide arson in San Francisco. It was expensive, but over the next 10 years their plot paid off 100-fold in increased masonry sales.
Now masonry companies are trying to prove that steal buildings aren't safe, and convince everyone to build with brick and stone. Unfortunately the government hijacked their conspiracy and used it to wage war. They may have to resort to blaming animals for their arson like they did in 1871 -- it's hard to say that a cow is a terrorist or that O'Leary is muslim.
Yeah, I didn't think you were blaming the US for all that troubles that part of the world. The GP seemed to be doing so though.
Oh, we're to blame for jumping right in the middle and taking advantage of it, and our relationship with Israel makes our lives harder. (Note that I support that relationship and believe it has been the right thing to do overall, but that doesn't make our lives any easier)
I would agree. I don't approve of everything that Israel does but at the end of the day it is a democracy. More to the point I can usually see the reasons for the decisions that they make -- it's not so easy to play the game by the rules when you are a nation of 7 million surrounded by 700 million who want to push you into the sea.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I can understand the steel failing at higher temperatures, but I thought the purpose of using ceramic insulators was to shield the steel from those high temperatures. Wouldn't the research be better directed towards these ceramics?
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
They were known at the time. Also, the temperatures mentioned in the article are a bit low: "Steels melt at about 1,150C (2,102F)", as these steels would melt at about 1500 C; 1150 is more in the range of cast iron and very modern high strength steels with 15 % Mn. Also, the magnetic effects quoted in the article are of little relevance for understanding the well known effects of heat on strength of steels, apart from at a very fundamental level, which is currently of little practical use.
With the way they seem to proliferate I think that would be a fine use of natural resources.
Ursula Andress, Catherine Deneuve, and Charo, twice...
I believe that! And I believe they also had NORAD stand down, and are still in office!
From Wikipedia:
The Washington Post reported in its August 3, 2006 edition that:
"For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances... Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial account of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public... Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation. In the end, the panel agreed to a compromise, turning over the allegations to the inspectors general for the Defense and Transportation departments, who can make criminal referrals if they believe they are warranted".[13]
But whatever, *I'm* the crazy..... right?
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
You do realize that you don't need to come anywhere close to the melting point of a metal in order to weaken it, right? You only need to heat it past its annealing temperature, and it will weaken slowly over time.
Much of the potential energy in the building wound up as heat in the pile.
There was much more energy in the buildings mass then in the fuel in the airplane. I'm too lazy to do the math for you.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'd not design buildings using a stack-of-boxes template. It's not particularly strong, although it is incredibly cheap. I'd be looking more to the designs nature often uses for very strong designs - spirals, helical designs, backbones, etc. A central "backbone" (based on a spiral column) that is large enough to support the weight of the building hanging off it would seem to have several benefits:
a) If supports melt, the risk of a cascading failure is greatly reduced - and even if that did happen, such a collapse should be greatly slowed down.
b) A spiral staircase is self-supporting. Ideally, the blocks would also be locked in place by design, so that blockage of the escape route is much less likely.
c) You can add more limited "backbone" spiral columns in the design, to provide additional structural support. Ideally, you have such spiral columns at different places on different floors, dispersing any collapse and preventing a cascading effect.
It would also have three disadvantages:
a) Developers throughout the US would go bankrupt (actually, would that be a disadvantage...?)
b) Floorspace becomes horribly expensive and would be of indeterminate, inconsistant shape
c) The entire USian mindset of uniformity and conformity in business would be utterly destroyed, causing widespread panic amongst interior decorators and shoppers everywhere
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Yes please YOU should use a little bit of critical thinking skills please.
Where the 40 floors above moving downward since the 70s?
Where they being held up by one floors worth of lateral supports?
Moron! The GP tried to explain to you and provided a link. I am just flaming you. Please go back to wherever you came from.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Why, I never knew a vacuum could implode...
lets call it ceramics, nanotubes inforced
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
gunman grabs an innocent hostage, holds the innocent hostage between himself and law enforcement. law enforcement still has a shot at the gunman, but there is a real risk he can hurt the hostage
moral dilemma: do you take a shot at the gunman?
this scenario, in fact, is not esoteric, it is pretty much the dilema of all law enforcement, period. because perpetrators are always attempting to elude capture by entangling innocents in their retreat
for example: do you engage in a high speed chase with a perpetrator for a minor crime? you are in fact putting innocent lives at risk for doing this. this dilemma happens every day, in every legal jurisdiction on the planet, and will continue to happen forever
ALL perpetrators for any crime realize they can dissuade law enforcement by involving innocent victims in their retreat. your intellectual dishonesty or intellectual misperception is that it is law enforcement involving innocent people in the captruing of perpetrators. no, it is the perpetrator who surrounds himself with innocents in order to escape capture
so law enforcement continually, on a real time basis, needs to make snap judgments that take into account the relative risk of harming innocents in capturing a perpetrator, versus the amount of manpower required to do so, versus the the heinousness of the crime that demands action or not. its all one humongous grey area with a ton of moral hazard with potential horrible consequences. its not easy at all, and mistakes WILL be made. welcome to the world of law enforcement
this is real life. your scenario is not weird, it is every day. and the answer to your scenario?: get used to it. there is no answer to your scenario other than: yes, innocent people are often, and will always continue to be harmed in the capture of criminals in this world. forever
if to you this seems cold and callous, consider that letting perpetrators of crimes off without any justice is even worse for this world
furthermore, you need to recognize that is the perpetrator that involves innocents in his capture, not law enforcement
deal with it. this constant jeopardy is the way the entire world works. its not pretty
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
has no moral implications
i see
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/02/england.plea/index.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22598582/
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2007/02/2008525135351125887.html
anything else i can help you with?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
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