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Designing The Ultimate Netbook
Harden writes "TrustedReviews has an interesting take on what the 'Ultimate Netbook' ought to be. From the article: 'How to solve a problem like the netbook? To my mind, despite nearly every manufacturer taking a stab at the thing, none has yet quite distilled my idea of what the Ultimate Netbook would be. This is partly because, until recently, not everyone had a clear understanding of what a netbook was meant to do, but also because manufacturers have all been far too busy jostling for market share to put a lot of thought into the finer details.' What would your Ultimate Netbook include?"
one that can transform into either a Decepticon or a Hooker bot, and is smart enough to know when to turn into each of those.
Monstar L
Windows Ultimate of course.
Blackjack...
Leela: "Is all the work done by children?" Alien: "No, not the whipping."
The Netbook needs to be cheap. Preferably in the $150-250 range. It should have a low to medium-end CPU, at least 256 MB of RAM and should run Linux (or if it has a high-end CPU at at least 512 MB of RAM, XP). It should have Wi-Fi out of the box, and a decent video card. It should have a minimum of 3 USB ports, and should be relatively shock resistant.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
A Macbook nano. $699, 10" screen, dual-core Atom, 2 GB of RAM, 64 GB flash drive, 6-cell removable battery, Airport/Bluetooth, Snow Leopard; no CD/DVD drive. Many manufacturers already have models similar to this; with subnotebook sales at an all-time high it's only a matter of time before Apple jumps onboard.
Take off every sig. For great justice.
...welcome our new netbook overlords.
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
Why is it that the 'original' netbook - the XO1 - can get 9-10 hours of battery life, even with a basic NiMH (rather than Li-ion) battery, and yet all the followup netbooks seem stuck at 4 hours tops? Even with the new ultra-efficient Atom processor, most new netbooks seem to have a relatively heavy power draw. I wish somebody would sort that out.
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
The new Asus N10 seems to hit the mark pretty well for me.
http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/20080926939/hands-on-with-the-asus-n10-gaming-netbook.html
The only thing I would add to it would be a firewire port.
Cheers,
I want to be able to walk into Microcenter or whoever, pick my board, pick a case, pick a screen, pick the drive, etc... and then build it. And that way, when something goes wrong, I can go and get the frick'in part(s) a fix it - without having to send it away for $50+.
And WTF is it with Apple of to have to wait 3 or more days to get a hard drive - at their stores?!?
it would include a price tag of below $300... And linux please.
1) Gentoo 2) A quantum processor
...An e-ink display (several generations ahead of what we have now, grayscale or color doesn't matter, just needs a decent refresh rate) plus integrated light (something along the lines of the thinkpad thinklight, but for the screen), wi-fi/bluetooth, a trackpoint (screw touchpads), be small (maybe along the lines of an eee701, just wider to accomodate a full-size keyboard), have a 5+ hour battery life, run a very light OS that is easy to customize (and preferably open source), enough storage for basic documents/a few additional programs (I am not seeing more than 20 GB here), be very durable (able to survive a spill or a drop from a high place), and probably within the $100-$300 range.
;-)
Also, it would be real nice if it had an integrated ATM that gave access to Bill Gates' bank account
Everyone has different needs and tastes. Some want a smaller package at the cost of features and screen size. Some of us want a little more hardware available and can't see a 7" screen anyhow. Many Japanese would be happy with a 4" netbook even if it had a 200Mhz arm processor. Most Americans would complain. This is why Asus etc have so many models and sizes. Trying to jam everyone into one model is like Henry Ford with the model T. He lost market share because he thought one car would be enough choice for everyone.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
[Buy a laptop!]
I think that . . .
>
-Dave
I'd say the ultimate netbook would be a slightly ruggedized version of the Lenovo X61s I already own, plus the built-in 3G that I wish I had ordered. (not that 3G via a USB 'modem' is bad)
For that matter, how about an X200s? Starting weight of 2.5 pounds, but a 'real' computer. The only disadvantage here is that they are expensive, but the article said 'ultimate', not 'ultimate when compromised to make it cheap'.
ERROR: Null
The Psion clamshells seemed pretty popular in their day. I don't understand why that form factor went away and didn't come back! One of these with a color screen, a modern processor, WiFi and running Linux would definitely appeal to me.
Netbooks at the moment seem like the worst of both worlds - too large to be conveniently portable, too underpowered to do serious work, too small to be productive for heavily keyboard oriented stuff. They're light at least - but I don't really follow why that's a big deal. Obviously I'm wrong because Netbooks are popular. I just don't quite understand it.
--- These are not words: wierd, genious, rediculous
I suggest the "andapony" tag to apply to this, and similar, fluff pieces.
The good things about the netbook market are affordability, GNU/Linux and free software. Microsoft and Apple do not really have systems for that range.
An Apple Netbook wouldn't be affordable and it would include the usual Apple restrictions and digital rights violations. No, thanks.
CPU would be a TI OMAP 3530, and at least 256MB of RAM. It would have a smallish 200dpi screen and both composite video and HDMI out (with a small HDMI to DVI-D adaptor provided) for driving an external screen and a secondary eInk display. Apart from this, all of the standard things (802.11n, Bluetooth, USB and ideally a FireWire 800 port). Battery life would be at least 8 hours with WiFi running and the screen at a sensible level of brightness. No hard disk, but at least 20GB of flash. Oh, and it would run OpenBSD.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I like how the spin in the article description makes it feel like it's doing the industry a service when really it's just some guy politely ranting and daydreaming.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Lightweight (under 1.5kg including the power supply), 12h+ REAL battery life, built-in 3G modem, trackpoint or a *properly* calibrated touchpad, a sturdy case - steel hinges (but NOT steel fastened with screws to a plastic frame), titanium alloy or carbon fiber underside and cover - and proper space utilization (if there's space for a full-sized keyboard because the notebook is widescreen, then put this goddamned full-sized keyboard there, not a "normal" laptop keyboard and 10cm of padding on each side). Oh, and a matte screen. Glossy is OK for desktop monitors in a controller environment, laptops are being used where it's often impossible to eliminate direct, bright sources of light that make using a glossy screen almost impossible.
Actually, I think I've just described something similar to my X60, which is a very good design as far as mobility is concerned, but could be improved anyway. Sadly, I couldn't find anything better yet - Eee is nice but underpowered for my needs (no, not gaming) and too small (12.1" is optimal for me), Vaio feels too delicate and too easy to break, while HP subnotebooks are fine at first, but there's something about them that puts me off.
Disclaimer: this has nothing to do with the "desktop replacement" kind of notebook, which definitely has its place (small apartments, dorm rooms etc.), but is, in my opinion, out of scope of this discussion.
This is Slashdot. Common sense is futile. You will be modded down.
and no, I don't mean $299. i would get an eee pc right now if I could get it for $150. since I can't, I'm just going to wait.
If it was all about the brand.
Personally I don't really see the problem with the 10" Intel Atom ones? Decent CPU, almost ok resolution, and so on.
I don't like the "oh let's make it like the Macbook Air except in plastic"-designs though. I'd rather take something sharp and boxy in metal over that.
Anyway, no, I don't have any good ideas. Aslong as it's Atom I'm happy.
A "low to medium-end CPU" and a "decent video card"? What's the point? If all you've got is a low end CPU you aren't going to be doing any serious graphics anyway.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I read the article. I got about 2 paragraphs in and read this little gem:
Since when the hell was the iPhone the definitive Phone? I'm honestly not trying to troll here, but it's widely documented that although it's great for web browsing and such, the actual phone aspect of it fails on nearly all points. It doesn't do MMS, it doesn't have bluetooth for anything other than headsets - hell, the shitty Windows Smartphone I had 4 years ago did everything the iPhone does today (and more), with the only exceptions of a multi-touch screen and 3G (Because it wasn't widespread back then). Honestly, what am I missing here?
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
The categories are fuzzy, of course, but I see two main ones:
1) What I call a netbook, which is a reduced-functionality, super tiny notebook, with emphasis on wireless connectivity, startup time, and battery life, to give you a minimal terminal to access your online life from anywhere. It's cheap enough that you'd likely buy it in addition to a normal notebook, and between being rugged (SSD) and cheap, you wouldn't worry about banging it around as you take it everywhere. It doesn't apologize for not starting OpenOffice quickly, or other traditional things you'd do with a notebook (let alone gaming)... That's not its purpose, and if you miss those things, look at #2. The original Eee nailed it.
2) Sub-sub-notebooks. These are the "larger" ones, which work as super light notebook for people who travel away from their main PC a lot. More CPU, a little heavier, a much bigger screen, somewhat less battery life, and you get a tiny, convenient notebook. It costs more. It's more about "running applications" than "hop online for a second". See: Dell, or the new Eee.
For me, the perfect netbook starts with #1, and keeps going in the direction of small, light, power efficient, instant-on, connectivity everywhere, and feels no shame about its limitations. To improve, try adding one of those trick transflective flip-around displays from the OLPC, and an ultra-low-power display-only mode to make it a usuable ebook... Or just put an e-ink display on the lid. Some are adding cell data interfaces... Good move, though plan pricing will probably render it useless.
The question was asking what you would want in a netbook. Your only answer was Apple? They could make it out of cardboard and you'd still buy it.
Unfortunately I'd expect many would buy it...
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
Yeah, that's a really good point - I'd want a netbook (or any laptop for that matter) to be modular. If I can swap out parts (or blocks of parts) upgrades can be done gradually, repairs are made much easier, and reconfiguring your system would be that much less of a chore; imagine being able to swap out processors with a couple of actions, doubling the running time! Or swapping out a color, "gaming" display with a very high res grayscale "reading" display for work or ebooks...
-- Language is a virus from outer space.
I'd like to see a brand that positions itself as the "under $100" Notebook and delivers at least the same specs as the EEE PC 4G.
In other words, instead of trying to replicate a laptop, just cram everything you can for the price. They could then update the product every year; at that price you can afford the upgrade often.
Probably not going to happen, as it would kill margins. But all the current machines will be available second-hand sooner or later and should reach that price point.
The ENIAC Demo Competition
What, no mention of the Pandora?
I know it's not really a netbook but still..
- Agilo
I basically do all I need on my 61
-even writing this.
Read emaiks,RSS and googling combined with navigation: I seldom use my PC nowadays.
Ohh, and of course use it for SMS, VoIP and ordinary telephone.
/ Owen, Denmark
There's nothing to see here. The author doesn't put forward any good points about making a good netbook, he just whines about how the current ones don't suit him as well as they could.
"Do I need to play games? No" - really? Maybe I do. Maybe I don't necessarily want Crysis running on it, but I wouldn't mind the odd blast at COD4, which the Asus N10 actually runs fairly well.
"Do I need to decode 720p/1080p? No" Good for you! I actually quite like my Hi-def entertainment and considering some of these have a HDMI output, I can honestly say I'd love to be able to bring one over to my friend's house, plug it into his TV and watch some Hi-Def porn. Sure, it's not what the thing is really intended for, but if it's possible to add such a feature, give me the option for it.
I think the article proves that what we need is simply more customisation. Currently, you have to shop around for the pre-configured models that asus, MSI, etc. produce. Even Dell offers a single configuration on their site with no room for improvement. Why can't I say "Ok, I don't want bluetooth, but I do want Wireless-N. And take that tiny SSD out and put a real hard drive in there, I'm not arsed about the 5% loss in battery life"?
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
An Apple Netbook wouldn't be affordable and it would include the usual Apple restrictions and digital rights violations.
You're talking about Apple circa 1992. The MacBook is quite affordable and doesn't have any "digital rights violations" that I can see.
Nobody needs a notebook because its too bulky and requires a bag of some sort to transport, the same as a small laptop...
A Good internet enabled Phone and a Good laptop overlaps the niche of the notebook...
Overuse of the Pumping Lemma causes blindness
But I would be very happy with the following:
an Atom based machine, with
a USB host port, and an
SD card slot,
GPS,
Wifi,
Bluetooth etc,
5 hour battery life
All in the form factor of an A4 sized(maybe even A5) iphone like device. Ie Glass screen, solid build, slim design.
If i need a keyboard for the thing i can use a bt one. It would be perfect for reading books, maps, basic games, browsing. And fit into a pack or bag nicely
Oh, and finally, it would run Linux of course
(if the price was around the 500AUD mark, it would be fantastic, but twice that would also be tolerable :)
Software
easy access to more software and large repositories already activated.
All for £100-£150 ($200-$300)
Most Damage is done by people who are AWAKE
Ubuntu Netbook Remix.
Even crappy netbooks like Sylvania's are getting good reviews for the software part.
Ultimate netbook: Second hand IBM ThinkPad X40.
* Full size keyboard vs eeePC's absurdly unsable plastic thing.
* Very good screen quality vs eeePC's wristwatch reject.
* Over 4h battery time running Xubuntu (I timed this with average use, this is *not* with the notebook sitting idle).
* Not much bigger than the eeePC, and still very light at 1.2kg.
* Super durable vs eeePC's plastic trashy case.
* Half the price of an eeePC.
I wish people would cut out this rubbish Netbook phase. Netbooks, at the moment, are overpriced reject hardware.
Until a netbook is at least as powerful as a 3 year old laptop, has usable input/output peripherals and is durable enough to take anywhere (after all, that's the point of the size, right?) then netbooks will be in my mind a total waste of time and money.
I hate printers.
needs to figure out what a netsite ought to be first!
The consumer electronics catalogue/blog fails to present the facts in a consistent way, search sucks, categories not tags, overly opinionated waffle misses that leaves out important facts... click through to read more!
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I thought the point was to be small and portable with long battery life. Get a Nintendo DS if you want to play games. The most "serious" graphics I expect are some desktop effects, and maybe watching a movie.
.
Must be a slow news day....
"Oh hai I do not agree with the common definition so I shall be a dick instead."
gb2/wikipedia/
They have. It is called the Air. Just because it is large, doesn't mean it is not a netbook. I think the definition of netbook is wrong in that it requires something under a certain size screen (9-11 inches depending on who is talking).
Fits in nicely with average price range too...
eSATA!
yea, what's a decent video card for a $150 laptop? anything mid-range would cost almost as much as the laptop itself. integrated graphics would be good enough for anything you'd look to do on a netbook.
Build in high speed 3G (7.2 mbps) would be a minimum for me to have a netbook be classified as "ultimate".
The closest Apple has come to having a lightweight notebook was the MacBook Air. Yea... I'm sure they can somehow get that price down to be competitive by cutting out the whole slew of extra features the Air has... oh wait... it barely has any...
Start with the iPhone/iPod Touch's design, and scale it up to about 10x7, the same size as a typical large format paperback like an O'Reilly book. Aside from built in WiFi and BlueTooth, he device includes an Express Card slot and several USB ports, so that it can accommodate the broadband network cards offered by both the HSDPA and EvDO providers. The underlying specs will be closer to a MacBook or MacBook Air.
In iTouch mode, it will be able to do all the things the iTouch does, as well as connect to the 3G cell phone networks with the appropriate adapter. Email, web browsing, etc. are all there. This mode will operate in a low power mode.
One of the "applications" available in the iTouch interface will be an option to boot a full os, which can be some combination of Mac OS X and Windows via bootcamp. Now it becomes a full laptop. A keyboard and mouse can be connected via USB or BlueTooth. An external monitor can be connected via a mini-DVI adapter.
In my view, this would work very well for digital nomads and road warriors. The small device would fit easily into almost any bag, and wouldn't require a true laptop bag. It could be used on a plane or a park bench. It could be whipped out at a moments notice and immediately be useful. At the same time, it is easy to throw a keyboard and mouse into a bag with clothing for a business trip, and have a nice environment to work on documents and presentations at the hotel. When visiting a client, it could be plugged into a projector and run the presentation just as well as a typical laptop.
The problem with this scheme is that the price point wouldn't be anywhere close to the netbooks. This would be a $1,500 machine that would compete with ultra-portables, potentially remaking that segment. I can imagine that the technology could quickly trickle down, however.
My ideal notebook would have a 15" 4:3 aspect 1600x1200 viewing panel.
Yoghurt
That says it all.
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
I have an Asus EeePC 901.
It *is* the ultimate netbook.
It has a 1.8Ghz Atom processor, faster than my desktop's AthlonXP 1800+. It has no problem crunching numbers or playing highly compressed high-quality video.
The 1GB of standard RAM is fine. I'd rather 2GB in dual-channel, especially since ram only costs 12$/GB or so, but I also have no troubles running Windows 200 Server, Firefox with 50+ open tabs, thunderbird, Apache2 with 10 concurrent users, Trillian, Winamp, Filezilla, and a dozen other services on a local server with an AthlonXP 1800+ with 640MB RAM, so 1GB is fine.
It's 12GB of space, spanned over two internal solid state drives, plus a 16GB SD-card means I have all the space I want (and with the three USB2.0 ports, unlimited room for expansion) and can also simply leave it on all day while moving from room to room and place to place - just stuff it in my briefcase and go - as there are no moving parts (pick it up and shake it while it's running - no damage, no headcrashes).
Speaking of leaving it on all day, it averages 8h:30mins of actual use per charge. Longer when in self-initiated standby half of the day.
The screen is nice, clear, and not a glare screen. It has a slightly imperfect resolution of 1024x600, but that has not yet caused a problem in any application. The graphics card is fast enough to handle UnrealTournament comfortably, giving ~30fps @ 800x600, 32-bit color, all settings "High", dynamic lighting, etc. Since I've only installed a few LAN-games like GTA2, Starcraft, ete it works perfectly for everything I've thrown at it.
The wireless network card is not only "N"-compatible, but AiroPeek drivers exist for it, and it can put into passive mode and can be used for wardriving/wireless network analysis.
The webcam is fairly good quality, sharp, and clear.
With a 20$/month contract, I have a USB2.0 stick that provides wireless internet (3G/UMTS) flatrate between 2,000 to 7,000 kbps.
The only thing that could be better would be to use an NVIDIA Quadro 280 graphic chip instead of the silly Intel chip (compatibility and quality reasons) and to use a dual-core Atom processor (that will soon be available), and both I would consider a luxury.
Also the thing is so cheap I got it for free with a dirt cheap (15$/month) mobile phone contract.
But..But... It would be... environmentally friendly! Yeah, that's it! How can you not see that whatever Apple does is ultimately good for all of us?
The mass storage should also be a plug-in. I'd be happy with a 4GB SSD most of the time but going back to that other Slashdot discussion on what to take for a roud-the-world trip, a bigger HDD would be great for carrying photos.
Instead of the trackpad I'd probably prefer a trackpoint or a Nintendo style set of buttons, which would not be a bad use of the space around the screen.
As for OS, I like the idea of seeing Linux laptops at mainstream stores, I'm just waiting for Skype and hardware manufacturers to react to that and make voip truly ubiquitous.
No, it's not a netbook. A netbook is 1.) 10 inches or smaller, 2.) 3 pounds or lighter, 3.) has an SSD, 4.) runs a full operating system, 5.) has WiFi and a keyboard, 6.) 2 hours + battery time, and 6.) is under $600. The point is to have something that is easy to carry around, will run most undemanding applications, boots up quickly, and that you won't cry about losing or breaking. The MacBook Air is sui generis: it meets most of the design requirements for a netbook, but is 5X more expensive (with the SSD that I consider to be a requirement for the form) and has too big a footprint.
I think Apple's best response would be a flat tablet device, about 10 inches, with a touch screen and bluetooth to match up with the existing Apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse, running a full OS X, 64 GB of solid-state memory, 2 GB RAM, a single USB port, and with a docking station that acts as port replicator and stand, turning the tablet into a small iMac. Probably cost $899, so it wouldn't be a netbook, but would act as a bridge between the Air and the iPod Touch.
to the clit mouse.
If it is cheap, I can just pick up a new one if I break it. If it is strong, I don't have to worry about it breaking so much.
I just want to throw the sucker in my bag and not worry about it.
Heh, I was just going to write this, but you beat me to it. Writing this on my X40 here. I have 7 hours of batterytime if I stretch it (no wifi, just coding and playing simple games).
c++;
Something I am longing for is a cheap 9-10 inch tablet PC. Is it so hard to make a tactile screen and a hinge that will allow the screen to hide the keyboard? How about no keyboard at all? B/W screen is ok and e-paper would extend the battery life.
Or for that matter - the ultimate netbook for a given individual is pretty much ANY nice used laptop less than three years old.
I was seriously considering one of the new 1.6GHz Atom based Netbooks. The one with 1G of memory and either the 16G flash drive or the 120G IDE would run me $400~$450 new (including a legit license of XP, so I could reinstall that after playing with Linux on it to see which I liked better.)
Ended up finding a used Dell Precision M90 on Craigslist for $350 - machine was owned by an engineer that took very good care of his hardware, so this 1 year old machine ($2,600 new - dual core CPU, 2G RAM, 7200rpm hard drive, GigE NIC, Quatro FX 1500 video card, wifi, 17" LCD on a magnesium alloy frame, license for XP Pro) looks brand new. Battery holds a charge for an easy 2 hours. For 1/4th less than the cost of a new 9" Netbook.
Granted, this specific machine is a monster - I'm guessing 4kg including the 130 watt power brick, and 17" laptops aren't exactly small in size either - but it is a LOT of machine for the money.
Good clean used hardware - it's amazing the deals that are out there to be had.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
important:
good keyboard, at least 17,5x16,5mm
umts, WLAN, LAN, Bluetooth, USB
weight < 1,5kg
Linux
Expresscard
VGA with different resolutions possible
not so important:
big HD
Display 10''
battery time > 4h
modem
card reader
mic, speaker
webcam
unimportant:
color (design)
My ideal notebook would not be Intel architecture.
Let's face it, designing a notebook around an Intel processor is like designing a bicycle around a V8 truck engine. Even recent attempts to make them low-power are laughable; the Intel Atom may draw an unheard-of 4 watts, but the new generation of ARM chips have about the same processing capabilities and draw *0.3* watts (plus you get a DSP and a PowerVR 3D accelerator for free).
The only possible reason for wanting an IA32 processor is if you're going to run Windows; which is fine, if you want to do that, but I don't. So why should I, and all the people like me, be restricted to having to using hardware that's crippled by the need by a ludicrously power-hungry processor and all the heat-dissipation hardware necessary to make it go? I have an Asus eee 701; it has a *fan* in it. That's simply absurd in a machine that size.
Lose the Intel processor, and it'll be cheaper, lighter and you're probably quadruple the battery life...
The majority of the comments are focusing on the "book" part; and mostly ignoring the "net" part. Current wifi, proprietary cellular, or true-high speed wired network are not pervasive or interoperable enough to provide effectively for the "net" part.
The "netbook" is just smoke so far. No real fire.
Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
So, he says he wants:
all day battery life
HSDPA (and a contract is okay) so he can surf the web anywhere
bluetooth
He says he doesn't need:
ability to play games
great sound quality
a lot of RAM or storage
It sounds like he just wants a web-enabled cell phone. Google's/T-Mobile's Android G1 should be perfect for him.
As for me, I'd like more memory, because I know I'll use it. I don't care about HSDPA, because I'm not about to enter into yet another cell phone contract. I don't care about bluetooth, because I'm not going to use an external mouse. I want pre-N wireless, because I'm going to be using it sometime in the next couple of years.
NSFW - http://www.toyssexshop.com/products/bms4321.htm
Battery Life of the Netbooks has to exceed what normal laptops are capable of. And that is because these machines are supposed for mobile enviroment, so 3 hours is NOT ENOUGH. I'd say 7 hours would convince me to buy a netbook, rest of specs are less important.
I hope they enter this field
You mean like the Apple eMate from 1997?
Ok, its hardly a "netbook" - but ubiquitous WiFi and mobile internet weren't really on the menu in 1997. Actually, the failure of this, and also the Psion Series 7 might suggest that mobile web browsing was the missing ingredient needed to get the "small, cheap laptop" market off the ground.
As for the MacBook Air, I think Apple were a bit unlucky with the timing: it was clearly intended to compete with other "premium" ultra-compact laptops from Sony et. al. - instead, everybody seemed to put it head-to-head with the (brilliant, but more Fischer Price than Jonathan Ive) EEE PC 701.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
1. They need to be cheap. Very cheap. They should be cheap enough that they could be given away much like USB memory sticks are today. A high-end netbook should cost no more than $20. Lower-end models should cost no more than a few dollars.
2. They need to be powerful to run all the new whiz-bang Web 2.0 stuff and any other application that someone might want to run. The Atom processor may be fine for now, but newer netbooks will need four- or eight-core processors to handle loading web pages. When I press the power button, I want to be ready to go instantly. My first computer booted up in five seconds and it had a 1 MHz (that's megahertz, not gigahertz) processor. With the processors we have now, a computer should be ready to go before I take my finger off the power button.
3. They need connectivity. Cheap or free Wi-Fi or WiMax so that they can perform their primary function -- loading web pages.
4. They need to be small. Very small. I should be able to fit one comfortably in my shirt pocket.
5. They need a large screen to view websites without having to scroll all the time. A 17-inch screen should be minimal with a 19- or 21-inch screen preferred.
6. The battery needs to last a long time. Even using the wireless connectivity continuously, these things should run for a year or more on two AA batteries.
7. They need to be durable, yet stylish. I should be able to take it from the job site to the coffee shop. They need to be dust- and water-proof. Maintenance should only consist of a wipe-down with a wet rag to clean off any dust or dirt. I should be able to stick it in the dishwasher to clean it and it should be able to survive being washed and dried with my clothes if it gets forgotten in a pocket.
8. They need to be dead simple to operate. Someone operating one of these things should not need a CS degree. The interface should be navigable by a 3-year-old. It should not require an easily-lost external mouse or keyboard, but it should have expansion ports (preferably USB) to add one or both if desired.
there should be a range of computers allowing each person to select their own ultimate compromise of features and price. Collaboration works better if everyone can join in. I have been working with Elonex in the UK on a couple of computers at the low end of the price spectrum, I am not allowed to use the c word to describe them, but they are as inexpensive as chips and dirt good value. The webbook is a VIA X86 laptop running Ubuntu, fairly traditional architecture. Below that is the One and OneT. The One has an X86 again, but not very quick. It is in an unusual and inovative form factor, basically a digital picture frame with a detachable keyboard. It retails at £99 which is not a lot. The OneT is a clamshell case and it is based on the Xburst chip which is a mipsel architecture (little endian MIPS instruction set). It comes with a simplified GUI and a single user operating system (which is marketing speak for everything running as root). I have it running Debian (text mode only so far). The important point is that with Linux who cares if it is an X86? this is perhaps the ultimate Software Freedom computer, it has no proprietary BIOS, it won't run Flash or pretty much any proprietary closed source stuff because they only get compiled for X86. In fact the processor isn't even running a proprietary instruction set. It runs the bits of MIPS that are no longer covered by copyright.
If components are interchangeable, they can be mass produced, and the price of them would fall.
If you can buy cheap, interchangeable components, and build your own, fat profit margins for laptops for Dell, Lenovo, Apple, etc. would disappear.
Buy building their own, non-modular laptops, they can sell products that differentiate their features from other companies: lighted keyboards, extremely thin, whatever.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I'd like a tablet, about the size of an A4 sheet of paper and the thickness of an Iphone. I don't need to to be a powerhouse, but it needs to be able to store some offline data and run productivity apps when there is no network connectivity. I don't expect miracles in battery life, but I should be able to carry spare batteries and change them without shutting the thing down. Bluetooth/wireless peripherals to reduce wiring clutter and reduce the need for too many extenal ports. A charger with a reasonable form factor. My target price would be about $1000.
From what I've seen the technology is there to do this. The people that invest in this sort of thing obviously don't believe there are enough people like me that will pay money for this. It's far more profitable to invest in the familiar.
.. since I just made a wish list of sorts. Netbook makers, are you listening? This is what I'd like:
* a cool, low-power CPU, either the Atom or the Nano (but with x86_64 extensions)
* no installed OS, just the possibility of booting anything(DVD, flash drive, etc) over USB
* atleast a gig of ram
* 16GB+ of SLC SDD
* wifi, 10/100/1G ethernet (with a CPU that can handle that), 3G modem, SIM card module
* card reader(s), webcam, bluetooth, audio, VGA out, etc.
* 3x USB (maybe a couple more)
* internal cards with some standard (maybe Express/34 so that a lot of things could interchangeably fit (wireless modules, storage, 3G card, the works)
* good battery life - even if it means a bit more size/weight, atleast 6 hours. And flush with the base - having an angled battery sticking out is the Wrong Thing when I want to slide it into my leather folder (that generally holds paper).
* screen that's atleast 1280x800 and that remains visible in daylight. Keycuts to brighten/dim (I wish your management had this feature).
* configurable powersave options, configurable bios (i hate those goddamn bioses which dont allow you to change anything except the boot order)
* somewhere around the $450-$500 mark
* no other strings attached (maybe a carrying sleeve)
So there. /with/ CPU, I think that should be doable. Except that these money-grubbing megacorps won't really think of giving a sane machine for a sane price. All the current netbooks are lopsided (atleast till the time they're sold with the microsoft tax.
The SSD and the 3G stuff might notch up the price a bit, but with Atom noards for around $70
So there you are.
I don't think you're being fair, second hand you'll get that X40 cheap enough, but it sells for about 2000USD. You're really paying for a bit more then. The EeePC's obviously meant to be a cheap toy, and is priced respectively.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
First off, a minimum of four buttons should be in there. You listening, Apple? (and yeah, I'm a Mac evangelist). So sell the thing w/ the buttons all programmed for normal click, or two each normal and "right" click. Let the savants reprogram them.
Trackpad with programmable two-finger, side scroll, etc. like the newer machines tend to provide.
And first of all, a numeric keypad.
Second, a keyboard with action much more like a regular keyboard--personally I'd give up the extra 1/4 inch or so of overall laptop thickness for that.
And finally, a couple fold-out feet so you can prop the laptop up at a sensible angle for typing.
Give me all that and I won't even bitch about the lack of an fold-up 17inch display :-)
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
An Apple Netbook wouldn't be affordable and it would include the usual Apple restrictions and digital rights violations. No, thanks.
That would depend whether His Steveness envisioned it as a cut-down MacBook (i.e. a general purpose computer) or a souped-up iPod/iPhone (i.e. an appliance). The vast majority of those "restrictions and digital rights violations" bones of contention arise from the latter.
The only such issue I can think of with Macs is the restriction of OSX to Apple hardware - which nobody seemed worried about until the Intel switch and, IMHO, removing that would simply kill OS X.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
http://sexylosers.com/247.html
Well, now we are two with similar needs. I bought a N810 with this idea in mind... it is a bit... small to write on it comfortably, and thick, but I could live with that.
A netbook with tablet form factor should be good, Gigabyte has already made one but still not good enough. I not only want something that I can bring everywhere but also be able to use everywhere. The one from gigabyte is too big and expensive for a netbook. It also need to be cheap, after all everything I demand from a netbook is web browsing, music and some paperworks. Oh, and it will be great if that netbook can boot in less than 10 seconds (= no windows :) )
I would say the original Netbook was the Psion Netbook
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Netbook
And it already had everything I would want from a Netbook. Decent ruggedized hardware. Somewhere around 70% the size of a small notebook. And an embedded hardware and os for cheaper price and longer battery life. Smartphones already carry all the features most people would ever want. Webbrowsing, basic text editing and email. Plus wlan, bluetooth, gps, sd flash card slot and whatnot. So why not a Windows Mobile 6.1 subnotebook with flash based storage and usb for removeble storage? Bluetooth and wlan could be optional, based on price. And what about a gsm module. Heck, just any existing smartphone and add a larger keyboard and screen. And use the power from the larger battery to add the power for the larger screen. For eight to ten hours runtime.
But I am sure Microsoft prohibits that, because they don't want their five dollar os to eat away from their fifty dollar os. Symbian doesn't have a decent interface for that. Linux used to be problematic, because of the lacking powersave features.
Maybe someone will just use Android or whatever to finally build a normal Netbook again.
Nokia also has some sort of webpad with a Linux os and gui. Maybe that gui could do.
Make the device a tablet, and make they keyboard optional. Provide a nice leather or fabric pouch that folds open and holds both the tablet and the keyboard when you want a full laptop.
Other than that, I think the EEE PCs are pretty close already.
Apple has entered this field; it's called the MacBook Air.
It's expensive, it's heavy, and it has limited connectivity options.
My boss wants the fastest video processor and graphics card available, 12 hour battery life on 4 AA batteries, a total weight under 2 pounds, a full size keyboard, built in WiFi/3G/4G/WiMax networking with a free unlimited data service plan, and a total price under $300.
Oh, and he wanted it to be available yesterday. Come on, laptop manufacturers... don't let me down! ;)
Bingo. On top of what the parent said, it should also be small (less than 12.1" screen) and lightweight with a battery life of at least 3 hours.
Bingo. On top of what the parent said, it should be small (less than 7.2" screen) and lightweight with a battery life of at least three hours...
Seriously, the best laptop I've ever had was a Toshiba Libretto 100CT. It had a screen resolution of (if I remember correctly) 1024x600, a perfectly usable (though small) keyboard, and mine ran Debian. It did everything I wanted of it, well - it even ran a full Oracle 8 database - and it fit easily into a coat pocket.
If I was designing a netbook now I'd start with the Libretto form factor, use solid state memory for backing store (definitely no hard disk) and finish it with about 2mm of rubber all round, for splash proofing and increased shock protection. It would run Ubuntu (possibly the netbook special build) and weigh not more than the Libretto - which is to say 910 grammes.
If Toshiba could build that machine in 1996, it shouldn't be difficult to do the same now, with solid state storage and better battey life. A Netbook - or a Libretto - is not meant to be your main computer. It's meant to be something you have with you virtually all the time. It needs to be robust because it's going to take knocks. It needs to be small, otherwise it's awkward to carry. It needs to be light for the same reason. If it doesn't have the graphics or the horsepower to run Crysis, well, frankly, I can live without.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
If you have a 3G USB modem is your machine running Linux? I ask because I got my grandad onto an Aspire One with Linux as the OS and he can't get a (vodafone UK) 3G modem working with it. I haven't had a look myself (he's halfway across England from me), was just wondering if you could shed light?
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
If they made it out of hemp, I would buy it
I don't think you're being fair, second hand you'll get that X40 cheap enough, but it sells for about 2000USD. You're really paying for a bit more then. The EeePC's obviously meant to be a cheap toy, and is priced respectively.
But that's the whole point! A new EeePC is functionally inferior to a an old X40. The "new" price of an X40 is irrelevant.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
You almost exactly described the eee pc 1000 except the eee pc 1000 has longer battery life. Mine gets about 5 hours of video playback and a few hours longer if surfing the net or word processing. A lot of people have commented that ASUS has lost touch with the netbook with the larger models but the 901 or the 1000 was exactly what I was waiting for. It is usable enough as a main computer while out of town for a few days and still light enough to carry around with you easily.
An Apple Netbook wouldn't be affordable and it would include the usual Apple restrictions and digital rights violations.
You're talking about Apple circa 1992. The MacBook is quite affordable and doesn't have any "digital rights violations" that I can see.
$1000+ isn't "affordable" in the sub $400 netbook category.
Yes!
You recognized that some of us aren't hooked on "small is king". Web pages are being built for big screens, so why not let the "netbook" have a decent screen.
It's not supposed to handle Halo 4 or such, but "the web" still has some processing requirements.
Currently I think "last generation" notebook is perfect for "this generation's netbook". It becomes the ultimate in recycling!! (After all, Going Green is finally in with the fall of the SUV mentality.)
I practice what I promote: I just bought a "netbook" off a friend for about $100, and another $150 in addon stuff from MediocreBuy.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
My last old Windows laptop finally died 2 weeks ago. I'm still clinging to my 12.1" last generation PowerBook for most of my day to day work, but there are two applications that are windows-only that I need to run at least once a week. I was about to break down and buy a new 15" MBP, but happened to be at Best Buy and saw the Acer One.
Specs:
1.6Ghz Atom
1GB Ram
120GB HDD
Built-in wireless
Built-in Web Cam
XP home
Price: $375 after all taxes.
I get a good 5 hours of battery life, it runs the two applications I need to run, and for the price, it was worth every penny.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
I'm posting this from my boat, by the way. My 3G modem is at the top of the mast, where it works well. At deck level, no signal. Same thing last week at a meeting; I actually had the dongle hooked over a picture on the wall, because at desk level I wasn't getting a good enough signal. Steel framed buildings can be a pain. People can move around to get a good mobile phone signal, and the phone is at a relatively high level, but netbooks do not lend themselves to working so well that way.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
a slightly larger OLPC XO, with their nifty screen advantage, with at least two gigs of ram, 10-20 gigs of flash, and the original idea of an additional crank charger built in. And wireless, including a place for a SIM card. And it can run any modern linux or bsd distro, it doesn't need any sort of special tweaked version.
To me a netbook is-should be- like a wide PDA and phone combo. You should have the ability to access any sort of network, wired or wireless, and it is a full computer with a "big enough" keyboard so it doesn't completely suck. Ya, it will mission creep to small "normal" laptop/notebook size, oh well, that's around the sweet spot I think that balances very portable plus very practical, somewhere around a ten inch screen, that allows for a more normal sized keyboard as well.
lol. The air?
Too big. Thin != small. A netbook should be small enough to fit in a bag.
*way* too expensive. A netbook should cost $400.
Other specs don't really matter. 3G built in would be nice (that's starting to happen) as the USB dongles look ugly sticking out of the side.
HSDPA/UMTS built in .... not in a stupid dongle.
So really then the definition of a netbook should be too small to use and too cheap to be of any use. Is the Air way too much for what you get? Yes, but price should never be a characteristic of a class of devices unless the scale is based solely on luxury. Is it too big? No. If an asus is too big to fit into your pocket, you may as well make it big enough to use comfortably. The Air fits in a bag and frankly it fits into what most people use as brief cases these days and not much bigger than a a few legal pads stacked together. Why a netbook needs to be thicker but with a smaller screen size is beyond me. The function between what you call a netbook and the Air is the same. A small, light portable PC with enough capability to run office and communications applications. That's the function. The bulk of this std definition is about physical characteristics which are not germane (or are tangentially) to the actual function. If you can get the same function in various packages, they are the same thing.
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
If it was cheap and lightweight and made of cardboard, it would make an interesting ornament.
As much battery as you can pack in, even if it makes it a bit thicker, and the battery pack should snap on somewhere near the back so that you can add a third-party "fat pack" battery. If there's any space left, add a slot that can hold a second drive, so you can use it as a laptop replacement when the net's not available, without dragging around a USB dongle. A full sized CF slot for a microdrive would work. But worry about that after you've loaded it down with all the battery you can carry.
Couldn't disagree more. A full size notebook is not good enough for people who want a netbook. If you've ever flown coach, the reasons are obvious. With a typical laptop, if you place it on your tray table and open the screen to a comfortable viewing angle, the edge of the screen neatly tucks in where the tray table was with very little extra space. This becomes a problem only when the person in front of you leans back and your screen gets compressed between the back of the seat and the tray table. In a panic, you have to yank the computer out of there or risk the screen breaking.
I desperately want a laptop that is about 1.5 inches shorter off the table when fully open so that it isn't at risk when using it on a tray table. A netbook would be perfect for that. Here's what I want in a netbook:
There's my list as a frequent traveler. In other words, a size-reduced (screen-border-reduced) MacBook with ExpressCard, no optical drive, and an Atom CPU instead of a Core 2 Duo CPU.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
as close to instantaneous as possible. I should be able to pull my netbook out of my bag in the middle of a conversation, boot it up, and look up the definition of a word in less than 30 seconds. Also, netbooks should come with more utilities prominently placed by default, like dictionaries, and calculators. The sort of widgets that are absurd and cumbersome on a desktop might find their use in a place where you can whip out the computer, check the weather, and then stow it away again.
Yes, His Steveness is not a pioneer in restrictions. iTunes is DRM free, AppStore does not exist, EULAs are very reasonable (for example you can use software you own on any hardware), iPhone can be legally used in any network, developers do not have to sign NDAs.
VIA Nano U2400 1 GB DDR2-800 RAM 12GB Solid-state storage 1280x800 screen "Friendly" (92%-scale) keyboard 802.11a/b/g(/n?) wireless Runs Linux (of course!)
As to why...well, the Nano supposedly gets almost twice the performance per watt that a Celeron-M does, and the U2400 takes about 1.5 times as much juice as the Celeron-M in the Eee 900 and company. That's offset by (at least in this theoretical model) being paired with a much more efficient chipset than the power-hungry ancient ICH Intel decided to stick the Atom and Cel-M with. As to the screen, the HP Mininote can already do 1280x800. The one thing I hate about my Eee 900 is the 1024x600 screen. And of course, it should be 100% Linux compatible.
A machine like this would be about on par with, or maybe better than, an Inspiron 600m as far as processing power goes, and probably faster with its solid state drive and 1 GB of DDR2 RAM. I could even see myself installing Gentoo on it (shunting /var/tmp/portage off into tmpfs of course).
~Eien no Inori wo Sasagete~ Searching for my Hatsumi...
Why is it that the 'original' netbook - the XO1 - can get 9-10 hours of battery life
Psion released the netBook in 2000. I have a Psion Series 7 (upgraded to netBook firmware). It runs Opera on Epoc, is wireless compatible (well, only to 802.11b and only with two wireless cards ;)), has a wonderful keyboard (the best I've ever typed on at that size), gets 8-10 hours of battery life, has a 640x480 4096 colour touch screen with stylus, has an email client, third party instant messaging solutions, Office-compatible word processor and spreadsheet, and a JVM (which is stuck at about Java 1.2 I think). It has no HD (but does have a CF card slot and since you can get CF up to 32GB now...) and is instant off and on. I bought the docking station to sync with the PC through PsiWin.
I wonder why the form factor has been so neglected after it was done so well eight years ago? I can only speculate that it didn't sell all that well at the time. The original design doesn't need much done to it - were you to give me:
If I want to write a quick note, surf a web page, or Google (r) a search, what I miss most in my computers today is the ability to turn the thing on and be ready to work in a few seconds. Give me a quick booting machine and I'll buy now.
Apple has entered this field; it's called the MacBook Air. It's expensive, it's heavy, and it has limited connectivity options.
For heaven's sake folks, the Air isn't a Netbook - its a regular 13.3" widescreen form-factor laptop (which is about the minimum size for a full-sized keyboard and better-than-XGA display) that's been made super-slim, and then made to look even slimmer by clever design. Its aimed squarely at well-off Mac users who want a small laptop to supplement their iMac, don't want a MacBook Pro (pretty, but relatively hefty) but fancy something a bit more "executive" than the regular MacBook. Its no power-house, but it has considerably more grunt than most netbooks. The connectivity is stripped out because it is assumed that you'll use WiFi and Bluetooth (there's a clue in the name). The seriously expensive SSD option is intended to give HD-equivalent capacity. Its main competitors would have been smaller, sexy and equally expensive ultra-compacts, and the killer features would have been the keyboard, and that it slipped into a briefcase designed for A4/Letter documents better than a smaller-but-thicker computer. Yet, somehow, the reviews always put the Air head-to-head with the $300 EEE PC 701, rather than $3000 worth of carbon-fibre bonsai from Sony.
Just for the record, I own 0 (zero) MacBook Airs and 1 (one) EEE PC 701 (and am tempted to upgrade to a 901) - but I just find the comparison bizzarre.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Most of the current crop of netbooks seem to have settled on WSVGA resolution (1024x600). IMO this is just a little bit too small for serious work. WXGA (1280x768 or 800) would be so much nicer. And it's not like it can't be done; my several-year-old Fujitsu P2120 fits 1280x768 pixels into 10 inches. If only it didn't have a crappy 933 MHz Crusoe, and had more up-to-date wireless (802.11b only with no WPA support), and some more memory (1GB or so vs. the 256MB it came with), it would be the perfect netbook. And with the 6-cell main battery and the media bay battery installed, it literally will run all day long.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Is a tablet with SSD, touchscreen and a pretty design... Pretty much like the internet tablet techcrunch wanted to design...
But I think the keyword for a successful netbook is to have a pretty design, drop x86, and tightly integration software!
Everybody seems to be forgetting the most important thing software... Make a netbook that will be remotely administered by manufacturer... Screw customers freedom, unless they ask for it, and let the manufacture own the root account... Don't give users a root account!
A pretty design and a system supported, as in remotely administered by manufacture, promoted through capabilities not system specs, is the key to success...
Tell the user that the browser will open in 0.5 sec and the wordprocessor in 0.8 sec... And that the system will boot in 10 sec... And that they don't have to worry about updating software and installing applications, because they can't do that it will be remotely administered by the manufacturer...
Okay, I'm not sure about the "remotely administered" which means not root access for user... But for the average Joe it might be good... One might allow root access but tell users that it breaks software support warranty.
Nevertheless, the key to sucess which I think everybody is forgetting is that lowering system specs requires serious software/hardware integration in order to work good...
-Resolution of 1024x768
-3G and WiFi and WiMax (seamless)
-big enough keys& separations
-500 grams weight so I can take it with me
anywhere.
- can be my cellphone too with
bluetooth earphone+mic
- Fits into pocket
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
I'm also jealous. You got a smoking deal on that laptop.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Maybe I'm alone here but I see a "netbook" as being ultimate productivity wherever and whenever with a little ability for fun(most people don't want to work during the whole plane or train trip). I was thinking something like:
atom dual core for netbooks
2 gb ram
30-40 gb of some type of solid storage
decent onboard audio and video (playback simple movies and music)
9" screen that is a rotatable touchscreen (I really need this for chinese character writing and I'm sure someone else could us it for on the go designs)
wireless n, bluetooth, 3g, gps
and a 6 cell 5hr battery
This should be doable under the 600-650 usd mark
but maybe I'm crazy
I'd like to make an argument that the ideal combination for most of the young net-using population would be a combination of a docking laptop and a netbook.
Consider it on a "piece of equipment" basis. Having a desktop, a power notebook, a light notebook, and a (light) netbook respectively each gives you specific capabilities and have costs attached to them. Owning one of each would be ideal, but they cost.
I'd firstly discount the power notebook as a viable mass-market proposition. For the purpose of at-home use, power can be had at twice the amount for half the price if getting a desktop instead. For the purpose of distance use, portability and battery life is both horrible. Thus, for the "cost saving" of two in one, you really get a very poor version of both. The only situation this looks viable is someone who moves around a lot and with no fixed address but still wants power, i.e. working from hotel rooms and somesuch. This is not a large portion of the population.
Light notebooks and netbooks simply can't give the power of a desktop, so for a number of very popular and often desired purposes (screen resolution, processor speed, graphics card), desktops have capabilities that can't be duplicated. If you want portability as well, a light netbook is an additional option. Or... is it possible to top that?
I would think it can be topped - if you combine a desktop docking station (containing additional storage space and a high-powered graphics card) with a laptop with a solid-state disk, large screen and a powerful processor with excellent power management ability. That should let you get battery power very high. The total cost of this would be in the range of an expensive desktop. For the best multimedia watching, you could connect it to a TV. You could also get a netbook in addition, although this isn't strictly neccessary.
Thus the initial purchase, although somewhat expensive, would give you power and portability in one, making for some a netbook superfluous, until you can afford one.
the USB dongles look ugly sticking out of the side.
I always wonder at this when people bring it up. When I got my 3G modem from Verizon, I specifically got the USB720 USB dongle for the specific reason that it is what it is. An easy way to get any computer on the internet that has nothing more than a USB port to stick it in. I can't tell you how many times I've run different desktops and laptops with it while troubleshooting to get them on the net for drivers, software, etc. Most modern Linux distro's have drivers for it built right in. I believe OSX does too. Of course, Windows doesn't but, I just boot a live CD to work with those. In fact, my Intrepid CD is zero config. You just load it up on the Live CD, plug in the modem and click connect. You don't have to tell it /dev/usbtty0 or whatever it is, you don't have to type in #777 or anything, it just works. I have no interest in a built in 3G modem that can only be used on the particular hardware it came on. Just added expense in my (net)book.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
I don't want a very small device because I feel that they are prone to getting broken, tedious to use, and generally leave that much less room for a decent battery. What I would like is a laptop with modern tech and the smaller form factor that was common a decade ago, rather than the monstrosities with 15" and 17" screens that are common now.
Consider the Gateway Solo 2200 (a once high-end laptop). 12" 4:3 256K-color quick-response active matrix display. Fanless Pentium MMX CPU. And it could hold a battery and a floppy drive, a battery and a optical drive, or two batteries. With two new batteries it will run for 8 hours. It would be perfect with a current-gen low-power CPU and suitable mobile GPU. Although the case could stand to be a bit thinner and more rigid also.
At least 5+hrs battery life ideally 8hrs-12hrs
and a *decent* keyboard
best thing i bought for my eeepc was an extended battery - makes it far more useful.
I'm seriously thinking of modding the case to fit a decent compact keyboard...
and lets not forget weight and size, cpu and memory are no so critical with the efficiency of Linux
there are thousands of windows applications that don't work on Linux - thankfully
from Ender's Game. Thin, large screen, portable, long battery life, highly cloud oriented, etc. That's what I've always pictured.
I'm not sure netbooks are good for gnu/linux. They are positioning it as an almost operating system for people who are too cheap to buy a real computer. That's not a good long term position to be in a marketplace.
Depends what you are looking for. Your 17" is more of a desktop replacement than a portable. I prefer something I can carry around without breaking my arm, and my hardware performance requirements aren't that great.
I agree software/hardware integration is needed... A wild suggestion from me would be to install linux... Not give the users root access and having the manufacturer administrate that machines remotely using SSH...
I am a frequent traveler. I use my ThinkPad X40 for when I'm on flights, going to conferences etc, and my ThinkPad T61p for heavy lifting such as long coding sessions, graphics work etc.
My X40 gives 4 - 5 hours on a charge.
Check.
Check, hence I travel with two laptops, one in my carry on (X40) and the workhorse in check baggage. I'm a pro at packing my stuff around the laptop, 10 long haul flights and no damage to it yet. Helped also by the fact that ThinkPad's are built like tanks.
The X40 is no MacBook Air, but were I spending that budget I'd get a X300.
No idea how big a MacBook is, but the X40 is pretty small so I doubt it'll not meet this.
Hey, I thought we were talking netbooks here? The X40 doesn't have firewire, but since when is that a concern on a small and light aircraft companion? For reading CF cards, get a $5 card reader, they're diminuitive these days, and weigt in at about 20g. The X40 has a built in SD/MMC reader, the T61p can also do the MemoryStick range IIRC.
You're having a different discussion here. No netbook will do this.
Dude. NETBOOKS.
Check.
Check. Both ThinkPads have RJ45 ethernet and RJ12 modems built in.
Check, the X40 runs quite cool, and is dead silent.
NETBOOKS! But yes, it does. What are you doing that requires >2gb of ram that also doesn't thrash the battery life?
Dunno about this one,
Stop smoking crack.
I said stop it with the crack already. MacBook Air is your only option for a small netbook here, and I think everyone agrees at this stage that the MBA is a product birthed from pure stupidity.
Your wants are not met by the current crop of products. You seem to want desktop performance in a netbook size unit, with the full flotilla of ports and no compromise in battery life when doing heavy duty work. Even if I were willing to pay big dollars for a netbook, which by definition is a *secondary* machine, there is no product that solves the absurd mix of wants in your list.
The X40 is a good tradeoff given the niche that the netbook is supposed to fill. When you're asking for does not exist, and if it did, I doubt it'd be anywhere NEAR the price range we're talking about here with netbooks.
I hate printers.
On ebay you can buy one ig good shape for 300-400USD. Even brand new x60, which is much more modern, is 1100USD on eBay. I bought my x60 in Japan, in regular computer store, brand new with warranty, for ca. 850USD. How you figured 2000USD pricetag?
This Is Not a Sig
Netbook don't need to be powerful. It's mostly about PORTABILITY and PRICE.
-Screen: 640x480 monochrome (no backlite that screw battery). That's more than enough to look at what your doing.
-Processor: Low power ARM. No need for x86.
-Sound: No internal speaker. A headphone plug is all it needs to play a few mp3.
-Storage: No internal storage. Useless. What is needed is two sdcard readers. The first one for the root filesystem and the second one for user data.
-Connections: 802.11 is a must in any netbook nowaday. 2 USB to add periphericals. Headphone. That's all.
-Operating systems: Linux, Linux, Linux.
-Battery life: You can add a bit of weight to add to battery life. I say it need at least 12 hours of battery life but the best would be 30h+ (maybe with 802.11 disabled).
-Every pieces of hardware should be fully documented for the hobbyists who want to play with the thing.
This thing would be powerful enough for:
- instant messenging
- a little bit of browsing
- mail
- word processing
- agenda
- minesweeper, commander keen, gameboy-style game.
- ect.
Obviously
The Macbook is no Netbook, and the Macbook Air is more than four time what Netbook owners would consider "expensive".
* Full size keyboard vs eeePC's absurdly unsable plastic thing.
Bah. I can touch type with it so that puts it above PDAs and smartphones while I wouldn't use it for serious coding (various misplaced keys) so it goes below real keyboards. Hmm.. that's the same class as just about every laptop keyboard in existence.
* Very good screen quality vs eeePC's wristwatch reject.
1024x768 vs 1024x600. When you take the size into account EEE actually has higher dpi. I doubt X40 has IPS so beyond that that quality difference isn't significant.
* Over 4h battery time running Xubuntu (I timed this with average use, this is *not* with the notebook sitting idle).
I'll give you that:(
* Not much bigger than the eeePC, and still very light at 1.2kg.
Twelve versus nine not much bigger? I already think the 10-inchers are too big for my taste. I don't want to carry a backpack around.
* Super durable vs eeePC's plastic trashy case.
And has a hard disk. Do you know what a head crash is and how to make one? Yeah, moving around your netbook when it's doing something.
* Half the price of an eeePC.
Used. Apples, oranges.
But hey, works for you != works for me.
I never understand how some beefy numbers on hardware influence their buying habits so much, as if bigger numbers = happier purchase. Most people who buy a netbook know they won't be needing huge RAM, a power hungry hard drice, fancy graphics or a huge screen. OTOH the very small profile has a huge impact on how they use and work with the machine.
As far as I'm concerned, anybody who I hear bragging about their hardware should justify what they need it for to maintain credibility.
If that's the case, can you explain why when Apple rejects an app from their app store, even their rejection letter is protected by an NDA?
So if you've told people your developing an app, you then can't tell them why it has been rejected or even that it has been rejected. Access to the SDK requires you to agree to an NDA.
Amen on the desktop effects... touch display... slick but utilitarian interface.
It's still pointless to compare new to used though. Give it time and you'll be able to pick up used eeepc's for cheap too.
1) No more than 8" wide, but no more narrow than 6" or 7". I want it to be mostly usable for thumb typing, I want it to fit in my Maxpedition Colossus bag, but I also want it to be big enough to mostly touch type on.
2) Twist/Convertible Tablet screen. And a touch screen, obviously. Bonus if it's multi-touch capable (but not strictly required). The screen should have as little bezzel as possible.
3) Built in Wifi and Bluetooth, not on an SDIO card. Bluetooth should include HID, BIP, DUN, and PAN support. The wifi interface should support both acting as a client and as an access point.
4) PCI-Express internal module space, with antenna hookups so that you can put in an EVDO or HSPA module.
5) One full sized external SD card slot, and one external CF card slot.
6) A modest amount of internal Flash for the basic OS. Say, options for 1-8GB.
7) A 1.8" drive bay for adding your own storage option (with customization options that include SSDs, but the base model can be bought with this bay empty).
8) Options for 1GB, 2GB, and 4GB of RAM.
9) I don't care (one way nor the other) about a chat camera, but it'd be _nice_ if it had a photo camera.
10) 2 USB host ports, that support OTG (they can be full sized, mini, or micro ports though).
11) 1 Micro-DVI port, with DVI-I (ie. support for both digital and analog connections, so that you can use it to connect to analog TVs, VGA monitors, DVI monitors, and HDMI monitors/TVs).
12) Internal resolution can be as small as 800x480, but 1024x600 might be nice. External resolution should support 640x480, 800x480, 1024x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, and whatever wide-screen resolution goes with ?x1024 (1600x1024?).
13) For OS, I'd want one, or more, of the following, but they must be vendor supported in order for me to consider them to be viable options:
- Ubuntu Mobile
- Android
- Maemo
- Mac OS X
(I think that, right now, ideally it'd have Ubuntu Mobile, with Android and OpenPandora extensions, so that you could run OpenPandora games and Android apps on it)
14) I'm agnostic about CPU architecture. As long as it's fast enough to be usable, and the battery options give me somewhere around 6 hours of reliable battery life (not estimated).
15) A nice bonus: if the PCI-Express module options included a quad-band GSM/ quad-band UMTS card that could be used for simultaneous voice, SMS/MMS, and data access. It would also be very nice if the software supported running a light SIP server to manage the voice interface, and a light jabber server to manage the SMS/MMS interface.
That's my ideal right now. It'd probably look somewhat like a Fujitsu Lifebook U810. Though, to slightly veer off topic, I think I'd rather have something in the form factor of the Samsung Q1 Ultra over a netbook. Give me a Q1 Ultra that otherwise matches the above feature set (#'s 3-13, and #15), maybe a slight boost in speed over the 1.3GHz Q1 Ultra Premium, and I'd be quite happy.
That'd all get rather expensive compared to the mainstream netbook market I bet though. Right now, I'm sure I'd be happy with a Dell mini that just added an HSPA modem, and maybe a twist/convertible touch screen (and, in that case, probably changed to ubuntu-mid over ubuntu).
I'm actually somewhat conflicted lately between getting the more expensive but preferable format Samsung Q1 Ultra vs a cheap Dell mini. The Dell has vendor supported ubuntu, and clearly a much better price point, but I think it might be slightly too wide for comfortable thumb typing...
I'm fascinated how few people have commented on the weight of the netbook in this stream. There's a lot about size, battery life, and RAM, but I lug my EEEPC everywhere, and although it weighs just over a kilogram, I still wish it were lighter and thinner. A 500g (17oz) netbook woluld be fantastic...
You're last requirement's a bummer.
WTF is your point? Go pursue everyone buying second hand computer? Come on get a life!
just wonder why there are so many anonymous cowards in this world....
Your irony detector needs adjustment.
* Very good screen quality vs eeePC's wristwatch reject .
* Super durable vs eeePC's plastic trashy case .
You seriously need to learn some basic debate skills. Although all your points are valid, these pathetic cheapshots make you come across as some basement dwelling permavirgin neckbeard. And, no matter how technically correct the neckbeard might be, no sane person ever sides with a basement dwelling permavirgin neckbeard
The only such issue I can think of with Macs is the restriction of OSX to Apple hardware
Yeah, that's a pretty major restriction there.
which nobody seemed worried about until the Intel switch
Well DUH...
and, IMHO, removing that would simply kill OS X.
The same as removing DRM from music would "kill" the music industry?
Apple Newton 2100. The 2100 had great handwriting recognition (hell, it could read my chickenscratch), was fast, had a rotatable screen, worked as a great flashlight, was easy to read ebooks on, had recording built in, text-to-speech, insanely great battery life, and even had ethernet. If someone could bring that thing back, and add in wifi I'd buy one in about .1 of a heartbeat...
It's the only thing I've every owned (hell, still have it) that just WORKED. It got me through B-school, took my notes on it with the optional keyboard, and then drew the diagrams right on the screen when they came up. Could print copies for my team by aiming it at the IR port on the HP printers...
Everything was nicely searchable. I added some extra stationary forms for other interests I had - like Scanner frequencies that I ran across, or tracking when I changed the batteries on our smoke detectors/mom's/grandma's, exercise (yep, I do get some exposure to the daystar), and so on...
I was so pissed at Jobs for killing it - I have yet to buy another Mac since - and I was a Mac guy too...
Nothing, I repeat NOTHING holds a candle to the Newton 2100... everything else is a pale imitation.
Size is still a major issue in that device class (probably in any really). The eeepc can easily and safely be held in one hand, fits into a small bag, and doesn't take up space you'd use otherwise.
Price is also very important. We had very small subnotebooks for years before, but they were expensive as hell. People expect smaller but less powerful equipment to be cheaper, quite rightly IMO.
Please, an AM tuner for the redneck in me. Seriously. It can enable me to listen to local sport events.
Screen should be touch and able to rotate into tablet format.
Battery should be removeable (and run for a minute or two while battery being replaced)
Memory should be user upgradeable.
SD or storage slots should be lockable or be covered.
At least 3 USB ports.
Linux supportable 3G card inbuilt as a goot option.
Should be built rugged like a cellphone.
Heat should be piped out away from the palm rests and base of the net book.
My perfect keyboard would be a mini aluminium mac keyboard 8) Rigid, quiet, big key surface.
Small external display and external power button would be nice, but I guess getting outside of the cost of a netbook.
Good linux support for all of the hardware. Ship binary blobs if necessary!
The Acer Aspire One is the best compromise I have found so far, I just wish the hardware support was better for the SSD card version in Ubuntu. It's far too slow and can corrupt when suspending or hibernating. 8(
My eee fits in my pocket, maybe you need new pants or a new jacket.
Lose: misplace or fail || Loose: not bound together
It took me a while to find this article, which covers the agreements/demands that Microsoft placed on Netbook manufacturers who want to use XP. It explains why all of the netbooks with Atom processors are using the low-resolution screens.
Granted, some of the requirements have been reduced (namely, the maximum hard-drive capacity), but in general the manufacturers are toeing the Redmond line.
I'm an individual! Just like everyone else!
Actually, your comment points out that the "ultimate" notebook is different for everyone.
For me, an Air with 4GB and at least a 500GB HD would be the ultimate in light weight and portability, while not being so small that it's sacrificing usability. The Air has pretty much the smallest screen/keyboard I'd consider using for an extended period of time. And other than disk space, I've yet to miss any of the "missing features" most other notebooks cart around simply because it's traditional to have a VGA/serial/parallel/SCSI/whatever port.
At any rate, for someone else, a 17" Alienware "monster" notebook might be just the ticket. The "ultimate" portable desktop replacement and game machine.
You, OTO... ah, foot, might focus solely on price and size to the point that a $200 ultra-portable that fits in a coat pocket is the "ultimate" machine.
Point is that you may value price, I may value design and usability, and someone else might place more value on power or some other feature. The "ultimate" notebook doesn't exist.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
Oh I wasn't bragging - I was just pointing out that at the $400 price point there are PLENTY of used machines out there that will overwhelmingly meet the individual needs of a prospective buyer.
I thought I wanted to get a Netbook, but in reality what I wanted was a nice $350 multi-media capable 17" laptop with enough horsepower run multiple virtual machines in VMware when I want, and portable 'enough' to take with me on trips as a portable desktop replacement - including playing the occasional game of STALKER or MS FlightSim 2004, and jacking into the 'net via Wifi when I want to get caught up online.
A used laptop is really hard to beat with respect to usability / price. That's all I was saying.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
- VIA Nano 1.2GHz or 1.3GHz or better
- 8GB SSD with option for 120GB HDD or bigger
- 1GB of RAM or 2GB+
- VX800u (ULV) chipset
- 8.9" screen (HP 2133) or even 10" screen (eee 1000)
- Bluetooth standard
- Wireless G/N
- ExpressCard
- Program for a free USB (or expresscard) 3G/GSM (by the way, what's the difference?) modem when you get a mobile internet plan.
- Starts at 349$ if it's the 2133 with a 8.9" screen and the first stuff, 399$ for 10" model. Prices should climb fairly enough.
- If it's the HP 2133, an option for a non-glossy screen please.
Oh, and SDHC card reader with unionfs/aufs built-in, and the default distro should be Zenwalk, Xubuntu, Foresight, or Debian, with a specialised interface (think Ubuntu Mobile) by default and an easily accessed "advanced" interface. An option for a touchscreen would be cool. So would be a 1280x768 LED-backed screen; but likely it would be 1280x768 CCFL or 1024x600 LED (again, what's better here?)
I agree, for a net book for me, weight and thickness are no issure though the ram and Mac OS support i dont see need for. Just fairly small and cheap, with web browsing ability lots of ports for external devices and long battery life and preferrably also swappable batteies.
Why, why, why, can't we do that?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I really don't get why nobody cares about the keyboard size. Young people do not type anymore these days ?!
Basically, the netbook market is driven by cost and size. Expand either of those two parameters and you end up with a standard notebook.
Can't type with fat fingers then onto a notebook, need a big display then onto a notebook, need a huge amount of disk space ram etc then onto a notebook - and forget a 'cheap netbook'
I currently use either a P2-300Mhz or a P3-500Mhz laptop for travel and client presentations. I run Xubuntu 8.04 on them and use Open Office, Firefox, and Thunderbird. These machines were built in the 1997-1999 time frame. Other than the weight factor these machines perform well for this task. Any netbook with these specs will work well too (provided it's Linux with a lightweight window manager).
The netbook market is really the traveler that has a desktop at home/office and just needs the portability. And since you're traveling you'll need great battery life.
Apple's "Air" looks great for thin, but it's still not small. ASUS hit the form factor perfectly and this is where others will (and are) heading toward. Think how handy it is to carry around a paperback book; remember those?... : )
The market is really looking for the $100-$200 netbook, then sitting at a $400-$500 portable laptop (with more features like DVD drive to watch movies etc), and then the $1000 "Branded" or "Desktop replacement" larger form factor with lots of ram, big HDD, etc. Companies that blur the lines across these form factors and pricing will only hurt themselves..."why do I want a $400 netbook when I can get this "brandX" for the same price and it's got a DVD drive?" Easy clear steps for consumers to see. But make sure you get the low price point - people will buy several for the kids, grandkids, favorite traveler, and so on (hint... it's about big volume in those small sizes)
Really like $100-$200 (or what's the point, people will upgrade to standard laptop at $300-$400)
And about the same specs as a 1999 P3-500Mhz laptop (that can run Xubuntu 8.04 with Open Office, Firefox, and Thunderbird fine).
Size of a paperback
And battery for several hours
And get the plant capacity ready to sell a lot of them !
Such quality can be had from IBM/Lenovo's older X series Thinkpads. They last longer than the cheaply built machines out there, and don't have the speed/capacity limitations.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Apple netbook would own. I'd like to see something that was almost the resurrection of the Newton eMate, but with a more modern Mac OS X derivative OS, 802.11n, and an option for Mobile Phone Company-provided bandwidth. However...and this is a big HOWEVER...this Apple netbook would be more expensive than any of the other netbooks. It just comes with the territory of machines with better "fit and finish" than the average computer.
I would say such a machine would be sort of like the offspring of an iPhone and a MacBook. Considerably less powerful than the MacBook, but with more versatility -- and no tie-ins to a single mobile phone company -- than an iPhone.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
"WTF is your point?"
That netbooks are overpriced and stupid, and that people buying them have more money than sense.
And you are not talking about Apple's laptops or desktops, just the iPhone and and Touch. There are no restrictions on developing software for their computers. Also, you are free to play DRM-free music and movies on any of their devices.
For those of you whose reading comprehension is not up to par, we were talking about netbooks, not the iPhone. And I was offering up the MacBook as something Apple made that is affordable. The MacBook is not their netbook, and neither is the Air. The Air is clearly positioned as a boutique product, so why quote its price as proof that Apple can't make anything affordable? Apple's computers are made in the same plants as everyone else, so there is no reason the could not produce something as cheaply as everyone else. I have no doubt that Apple could produce a ~$500 netbook, I just see no reason why they would want to.
It is silly to propose that there is one ultimate notebook for everyone. The problem with current notebooks is manufacturers are lacking in imagination and there is insufficient diversity in notebook designs.
Few points:
* Use a ThinkPad's keyboard. Actually go and find one, and type on it. Nothing will ever compare after that.
* 12" vs 9" is a difference, but the tradeoff in capability is worth it for my uses.
* The screen on the eeePC is barely readable. The first gen were so bad that it defies belief it was a product from after 1995. I have no problem with high DPI screens, I've used a P series Fujitsu lifebook, which is 12" with 1280x768 res.
* You can replace the X40s hard disk with a 32gb SSD and still be less than the price of a new eeePC.
Also, whether its new or used is, in my calculations anyway, irrelevant when deciding how much value you're going to get out of it. If I can get more value out of a used item than a new one, the fact that it's used does not count against it. In fact, I get a better feeling knowing that I'm doing recycling the proper way.
The Thinkpad in question should be only about half an inch shorter when opened, assuming the hinge design doesn't eat any of that difference.
But to answer your questions, my goal in a Netbook is to have the capability to do the sorts of things I need to do when I get somewhere. That means being able to power an external portable drive for when the handful of GB of flash storage won't cut it (which is pretty much always). It would be a bit nuts to carry a smaller, lighter Netbook to use on the plane if I'm just going to have to haul around a second laptop for when I get where I'm going to actually be able to do anything useful.
Regarding the 2 GB of RAM, you really don't want to page to a flash drive, so you really need enough RAM to keep paging to an absolute minimum or you are wearing out your hardware. Also, when a bare-bones boot of Mac OS X takes about half a gig by itself (600 megs right now with one Safari window and one Terminal window open), a gig is an absolute minimum even if you aren't worried about paging traffic wearing out your flash drive.... 2 GB seems like a reasonable compromise. My current laptop has 3 GB.
Regarding 64-bit Atom, no, I'm not smoking crack. The desktop Atom variants support x86-64. IMHO, designing a new computer with a 32-bit CPU is like designing a car that required leaded gasoline after they announced that they were phasing it out....
Regarding ExpressCard, it doesn't seem that extreme to me. It's not like we're talking about a huge chunk of board real estate---you are likely to have a PCI Express chipset anyway, so it's pretty much a trivial amount of silicon plus a connector---and with the space you gain from ditching the optical drive, I think it's a perfectly reasonable addition that doesn't add much to the cost.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
The eee1000H is now around $450, and it's my new best friend. The nearly-full keyboard might as well be a full keyboard. The 10" screen is big enough to use with Photoshop in surprising comfort. Solid battery time. Great user community. --And all the other good things you've heard already from people. It's all true.
The only thing some people find is that it's a tad on the heavy side. For me, though, I actually like this. If a device is too light, I find it feels too much like a cheap toy. I use old Nortel phones which weigh a ton so they don't rattle around like Christmas tree ornaments. When I put something on a table, I like it to stay put. But it's certainly not too heavy to grab and carry with ease. --I find I treat the eee1000H the same way I might treat a smallish school text or a biggish fiction hardcover. It goes where I go, and that's the most significant and noticeable difference between it and my old lappy; the laptop is like re-deployable furniture, whereas the eee is actually immediately useful all the time no matter where I am around the house/office. I'm not actually sure what I'd do to improve it.
The last time I bought something I was this satisfied with, (to the point of smugness), was the Mini-Leatherman. --Not those silly new ones they call the 'squirt', but the original from 20 years ago. I still use that thing all the time, and it's still in excellent shape because it was built to last forever. --Of course, even the eee1000H isn't as cool as my fold-up pliers, nor will it last for anywhere nearly as long. But to be fair, proof man's divinity lies in the Mini-Leatherman, so the bar is pretty much impossibly high. The eee1000H comes fairly close, though.
-FL
I'm not sure netbooks are good for gnu/linux. They are positioning it as an almost operating system for people who are too cheap to buy a real computer. That's not a good long term position to be in a marketplace.
You mean like when Microsoft made an OS for people too cheap to buy an Apple or one of the *nix variants for a desktop? When Microsoft started off first, one of the computers they were keen to get MSDOS on was the Amstrad PC clones. They actually approached Amstrad, because they were clued in enough to know that if they got it running on as many computers as possible, they would have more users. Same applies to Linux. It is on my router, my web tablet, my PC and my laptop. And there is also a fair chance it is on my TV. The more the merrier. Apart from the Mac and the iPhone, how many places is the reassuringly expensive OSX? Nothing wrong with cheap. Especially considering the possibility of replacing "Linux.. Ohh that's the really complicated one that places like NASA use" with "Linux.. Oh yeah.. I used it on a netbook a friend of mine had?"
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
As I said earlier, the X40 I suggest competes against current netbooks, not your contrived imaginary UtopiaBook.
Netbooks will never be as powerful as full sized laptops, there will always be a relative difference.
Until technology gets to the point where netbooks can replace laptops fully in the way laptops can replaced desktops today, netbooks will never be a full computing solution.
As for the 64 bit comment, I disagree. There is no software on the market, barring scientific software and some heavy duty multimedia transcoding stuff that uses 64bit for any real advantage, and if you're doing either of those things on your netbook then, well, you're smoking crack. Perhaps in a few years, but not today.
I still don't understand your point here. The article says "Netbooks FTW". I said "Second hand X40s are the smarter choice". You said "My imaginary device is better than both!".
I hate printers.
A netbook in my opinion should have the following specs:
* the size of an EeePC 9x - if it's any bigger I would rather get a regular notebook.
* 9'' Display with good brightness - if it's highly portable I want to use it everywhere, including outside on a sunny day.
* a usuable keyboard, like the Dell one has - I wouldn't work with it a whole day but for longer text inputs it should be comfy enough.
* at least 12GB, perhaps even 20GB SSD - SSD are just more robust. I don't need tons of storage on a netbook.
* wireless lan and kind of mobile phone modem - hey, this is for mobility, isn't it?
* webcam of usable quality - I don't want to record a movie but for vid-phone usage it should be sufficient for most enviroments.
* should be able to run Linux without losing any features - I don't mind if the netbook is offered with Windows, too but I prefer the penguin.
* don't forget at VGA and Sound out
* 4 hours on battery should be minimum
I wouldn't use the netbook for photo or videoediting nor for gaming but for email and www, some text editing or calculations, perhaps as a presentation machine when connected to a beamer. Might also be nice as a playlist controller for a party.
rgds,
MaDMaik
regards,
MaDMaik
--
Be Ernie, Be Bert - Just Be
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http://www.madmaik.
I want one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Revo with wifi*.
All I've been waiting for these past years is a PDA with an f-ing KEYBOARD, had no trouble using the word processor or spreadhseet on the revo, found the keys on it perfectly usable. At the mo my "portable internet" experience is at approx 160*200 px on my Sony Erricson phone with predictive text input. Why the massive gulf in devices from there to 12" laptop?
*USB would be nice, but color optional.
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
My point was to disagree with your statement that Netbooks had no purpose. They do---the screen size on airplanes, specifically. The rest of my post wasn't in any way related to the X40, but was addressing the original article question, which asked what I would put in a netbook type of device if I were designing one for myself.
Regarding 64-bit, many apps show a significant performance advantage when compiled for x86_64 over x86 due to the extra registers available. In a processor with no instruction reordering, register renaming, or speculative execution, I would expect that performance win to be significantly greater.
Also, Windows Server 7 is expected to be solely available for 64-bit architectures, though the client version (Windows 7) is expected to be available for both 32-bit and 64-bit machines. Whether that is still true by the time it ships or not likely depends on how many years it takes them to get it out the door. In any case, I would be very surprised if Microsoft continues to maintain all that legacy 32-bit CPU support much past Windows 7. Just my gut feeling.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
1. I want a removable battery sized graphics card that has a PCI-E x16 slot at the back. Hell maybe two in the front or side of the laptop. I would like an ultra-low power graphics card on the motherboard as well. So when I am done playing Crysis at 1600x1200 I can pull the cards, set them in their velvet lined mahogany box and stick in two battery packs.
2. I want 2 CPU's. One quad-core for when its plugged in and one ultralow voltage so when I unplug my baby goes ultra miser. What does an atom retail for? Another $80 is not going to annoy me if I just bought two 9800gtx cards. Basically if I am moving with my laptop it needs to be a web browser and MS Office and that's it for me. Hell my Nokia e71 can do both those jobs and its the size of an ipod and lasts for 4 days without a recharge.
3. I want flexible e-paper multi-touch screen that deforms on command to create a keyboard on the bottom of the laptop or a flat textured wacom stlye tablet. Kind of a cross between the Art Lebedev keyboard and those useless laser projection keyboards but the the added benefit of tactile feedback. This ones is obviously a pipe dream but what the hell you asked what I want.
4. I want the the center hinge to allow me to have the e-paper out as a tablet or the LCD. Even if both sides are clunky thick as long as they are hollow and light with the graphics card and maybe even the magnetic hard drive out of the case.
5. Up top I want a nice LED lit 1600x1200 17" LCD on top with a transflective backing.
6. I want the whole back panel behind the screen to be a fractal antenna that is massive and broadband.
6. I want either: Four CF slots with a hardware raid, e.g. 4 x 32gb @ ~$70 each: 128gb SSD with replaceable memory for $280.00, or a thinner solution of 8 SD slots, e.g. 8gb @ ~$8 each: 64gb SSD with replaceable memory for $64.00. Imagine a redundant array of inexpensive disks!
I longed for a wifi'd-up Revo in a higher up thread but will repeat myself somewhat here to bolsten your post. All i want is a PDA with wifi and a half decent keyboard, and the Psion Revo clamshell-slide-out action is *still* a gorgeous execution of it. My Revo has 8MB RAM and 8MB ROM and 16 shades of grey, why does my only upgrade path involve gigs of ram and gigs of ssd, a 10" screen and 10 mins of battery life?
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
Yeah, that's a pretty major restriction there.
Major? Its only remotely of concern to people who want to build their own "hackintosh". If you actually buy a Mac, this is no restriction at all - c.f. the iPhone where Apple and the phone company do seem to reserve the right to tell you what you can use your iPhone for.
The same as removing DRM from music would "kill" the music industry?
Removing DRM probably will kill the music industry as we know it, and the world will be a better place for it - they've been stifling it for years.
OTOH, Apple's ability to tightly link its OS to its hardware, and to use sales of premium-priced hardware to bankroll software development, has led them to be a major source of innovation in an industry otherwise dominated by a fat, lazy monopolist. The only market for commercial "hackintoshs" would be customers who would otherwise have bought hardware from Apple - they'd be wiped out and take one of the few serious competitors to Windows with them.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
(Replying anon to not further dilute my karma)
Well, I've traveled with my x40 on *many* long and short haul flights, and I've found it small enough that the extra cost and vastly diminished performance more than make up for the slightly larger size. My point wasn't that netbooks have no purpose, it was that, they are overpriced when other options are considered. In other words, the x40 does represent a compromise on the "get the smallest possible computer" front, but makes up for it with greater CPU power, more ram, better screen and better keyboard.
If your use calls for the the smallest unit at any cost then that's where our use cases differ.
Our use cases also differ in that OpenOffice, Thunderbird, Firefox and my coding text editor are not accelerated by a 64 bit OS. If your netbook use involves apps that benefit from 64bit then again, that's a difference in our uses.
I hate printers.
s/diminished/improved
I re-wrote that sentence and got confused with how it was being worded.
I hate printers.
Sure, some users might prefer a laptop over a netbook. But it's wrong to say that the ultimate netbook is a used laptop. The ultimate netbook probably won't be 17", and won't weigh over 3kg. It'll be small and light. That's what a netbook is. A big, heavy, or expensive laptop is not a netbook.
If I just had the money to produce it...
1. Make more things modular. What about replacing batteries (yes, plural) for disk modules too, or wi-fy?
2. Use 1 quad-core CPU, turn 3 cores down when you are unplugged. Bonus point for an assyncrhonous quad-core CPU, that lets you turn the voltage down. What about turning some RAM down too? It will need a custom OS anyway.
3. Ok, pipe dream. But the keyboard can be composed of several mountable modules, so you can have a big one, while keeping the laptop small.
4. E-paper back would be very nice.
5. Yeah, that would be nice, or a A5 form for a more portable notebook (two different models).
6. That's interesting.
6 (again). That is very interesting :)
Rethinking email
With some good connectivity and matte screen.
1 inch thick and 2.5 lbs.
Full-size keyboard (or at least no less that 90% full size).
carbon-fibre or bamboo frame would be nice. something that comes with a materials reclamation plan for once.
take an acer 901 and in no particular order:
- make it prettier
- add on board 3G
- support all types of flash memory card
- manual shutter close over the camera
- give it a touch screen
- make it more shock proof
- put a solar panel on the other side of the monitor to charge the battery
Major? Its the primary concern to people who would like another alternative to Windows but don't want to spend an arm and a leg on expensive hardware they don't need.
There, fixed that for you.
If you actually buy a Mac, this is no restriction at all
Yeah, DRM is no restriction at all. You just have to avoid doing the things it won't let you do and there is absolutely no restriction to think of. /sarcasm
Removing DRM probably will kill the music industry as we know it
Actually it can't, because DRM on audio is totally ineffective. On an OS OTOH, it can be quite effective.
The only market for commercial "hackintoshs" would be customers who would otherwise have bought hardware from Apple - they'd be wiped out and take one of the few serious competitors to Windows with them.
Without going into too much speculation from here, I think it would be safe to say that removing the hardware restrictions from OSX would open it up to a whole load of new markets and would have a much better chance of competing.
How that woul affect their profit margins at the Hardware Devision is another issue. Most of their revenue comes from iPods and iPhones nowadays anyway.
Actually, all the apps you list are fairly typical, largely unoptimized apps. Most apps (with the exception of apps with lots of hand-rolled assembler code) get about a 5% performance boost from going x86-64 (at least on Core 2 CPUs). Frankly, I'd be amazed if you didn't see at least a slight speed benefit from 64-bit with those apps. Whether it was enough for you to actually notice it or not is another question. I've never benchmarked 32-bit versus 64-bit on an Atom, so I can only speculate.
As I said, though, I would expect the win to be greater because the CPU can't do nearly as much lookahead in prefetching data into registers, so having more registers can allow the code to be optimized for the Atom with a larger prefetching window than would be possible in the remarkably limited register set of the i386 architecture. Of course, the amount of boost you would get will likely depend in large part on whether you compile your OS (or at least your apps) with optimization settings appropriate for the Atom.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Batteries on a 3 year old laptop are usually shot, too. And so expensive that you'd end up paying as much as a new netbook to get a new battery along with an old laptop.
So I don't know what you're talking about.
The Acer Aspire One is more powerful than a 3 year old laptop for the same price, has usable IO and is very durable.
+++ATH0
waterproof
-John Fenley