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Landing IT Work Overseas
snydeq writes "US IT workers could find considerable payoff and invaluable experience by taking their IT skills overseas, InfoWorld reports, as foreign, US, and global firms have increased the demand for a wide range of tech talent across the globe, offering positions that clearly move beyond the scut work of heads-down programming. Business fluency, industry-specific skills, and knowledge of American markets is fast becoming an invaluable asset foreign firms will pay a premium for, according to the report, which offers insights into finding IT work in a range of cities and regions abroad."
I'm dumb and lazy.
Overseas? You don't want to go overseas. There's smart asians there!
Speaking as a resident of a country where many Americans come to work in IT: if you are coming here with no intention of learning the language and the history of the country and assimilating into our society, we don't want you. Far too many Americans move abroad for IT work taking advantage of the fact that in that field they don't need language skills and don't have to deal with many normal, everyday people. That's not how you contribute to a society, regardless of how much your work produces some economic benefit.
"beyond the scut work of heads-down programming"
Commercial Bullshyt.
If I wanted to be in a third world economy, shouldn't I stay at home??
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
No doubt he is trolling for the typical response of... "That what all you foreigners do to US!!!!"
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
Right now, I'd love to start looking at working for a company in Europe, but I'm really not looking to move out of the U.S. I'm young, and single, and the idea of traveling frequently definitely appeals to me, but I really do love living in the U.S. And getting paid in UK Pounds or Euros wouldn't hurt too much. :)
Any tips for how to nail a telecommuting job overseas?
I think that moving outside one's native culture/setting is a good idea for anyone. It really helps to gain a wider perspective of the world.
All the travel I've done to this point in my life has been primarily in Asia and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I tried to get a tech job in Korea a number of years back, just after I'd gotten into the industry, but it didn't work out.
This year I had the chance to spend a couple weeks in Hungary. That was my first visit to Europe but I thought it was a great place and would be happy to live there. I kind of expected that though.
Latin America would be interesting, though I'd think that unless one is in a major metropolis that they had best be prepared for a difference in standard of living and available services. I see Costa Rica mentioned a lot - and I think an advantage there would also be that there are many people who are very fluent in English. A lot of Americans I know that want to learn Spanish quickly go there to do so.
I've been thinking a lot about spending a couple years or so in El Salvador. But I know of an opening there that I'd have a high chance of filling.
Developing countries offer a lot of neat opportunities. I think that if one goes into it with a good idea of the situation and proper preparation that it can be life changing for the better. I certainly don't think that globalization is slowing down. And for anyone planning to return to the U.S. eventually, I think learning Spanish would be wise.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
A few years ago Bob Cringely wondered the same thing, but found India won't take you.
"So I went on the web to see how easy it would be to emigrate to India. I found NOTHING. I called the Indian Embassy in Washington, DC and asked how I could emigrate to India. They didn't know what I was talking about... The idea that I'd just arrive at the Mumbai equivalent of Ellis Island looking for a job, well they found that rather amusing." http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2004/pulpit_20040226_000453.html
Rest of the developed world is in an IT slump. Time for that Career B-Plan?
We outsource ourselves?
Most of the countries on this list do not have any employment outside of a in-company transfer.
This is a shill advert for outsourcing.
I looked at the map. Too bad it does not include the Caribbean Islands. I would love to fire up eclipse from my thatch roof hut overlooking sandy beaches and crystal blue water. Just thinking about that makes me really resent my cube-farm residence.
The rest of the world does not let folks in like the us.
The EU is a socialist police state with too many laws protecting their workforce.
If you can't get a job in the US maybe IT is not for you any longer.
I have been to costa rica no booming IT industry there.
I'm a .NET / MSSQL guy (yeah, I know, I know)
anyways, family situations have caused me to move around a lot in the last few months.
When I was in Portland OR, I landed a 6 figure job in 3 weeks. I declined it and instead moved to Manhattan and got a job in 2 weeks, also 6 figures. Contract to hire, and they said they'd hire me permanently, but now due to a death in the family I have to go to Minneapolis MN. I put my resume on Dice sunday night and have 2 promising leads for jobs in the twin cities, also at a comparable rate.
Don't know what IT slump you're talking about.
Scary, isn't it?
If by "Scary" you mean "Utopia", then yes.
fail. stop being a dork
If your company is quickly expanding its army of developers in a foreign country, your willingness as a seasoned programmer to work abroad will be highly valued. If you're willing to make the move, you could be well-compensated for it, and rise in the ranks more quickly than usual.
"scut work of heads-down programming"
Uhhh wot? What does the above quote mean?
I remember when people came to America for opportunities.
...I am unaware of people who say push for Dutch in parts of Belgium...
The extent to which this is done in Belgium can border on Fascism. When Belgian politician Fernand Herman died back in 2005 his widow wanted to etch the words L'Europe est ma patrie into his tomb stone. She was advised against it because it would not be well popular by the Flemish authorities in the town where he was to be buried. They finally settled on a compromise by etching the same inscription in Latin into the stone. I don't really mind people wanting to protect their cultural heritage but when "linguistic cleansing" has been taken to the point where nationalist fanatics want to dictate in what language you can carve words on your loved one's tomb stone things have definitely gone too far. You can rest assured that in both the cases you cited, Canada and Belgium, the fanatics pushing for the languages in question get criticized and they richly deserve that criticism.
I just checked the info for Paris and they got the exchange rate wrong:
Can the rest of the article been trusted if they cannot get something so fundamental while working abroad right?
Even I remember this. Now people come to America for the handouts.
I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
I read a news article about five years ago about university graduates in Germany, who signed on for two year stints at call centers in India.
They didn't earn much by European standards, but much better than their Indian colleagues, and enough for a comfortable slacker lifestyle near the beach.
They seemed to be happy as clams. Granted, all of them said that they didn't want to spend their life there, but nonetheless it was a positive experience.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I've hired and managed several senior programmers from North America in the past, and while on some levels they were useful, I was appalled by their work ethic. To put it bluntly, they were greedy pigs and post graduate qualifications not withstanding, their attitude was such that I would not consider mixing such people with workers from civilised countries again. If all you care about is money, stay home, the rest of the world doesn't need people like you.
There are a lot of very smart and technically savvy people in the US but when "news" is posted that one can work outside the borders the rest of us to tend to raise an eyebrow and wonder.
I made the move to NZ 3 years ago. There is some outsourcing going on but it is much more limited. Skills I picked up in the US have proved invaluable here. If you are thinking of making the move, remember that people skills are critical. Further, you have to be open to new cultures and grow a bit of a thick skin (I get anti-US comments from time to time). The biggest problem is the distance from relatives. If someone back home gets sick, it is $3000 plane ticket and a 14hr trip to get back... not to mention the 5th degree you get from the dhs people in customs when returning. (I got body frisked last time I went back.. why?) P.S. the NZ dollar just broke $.60 USD.. so you can sell that house for less and still come out on top. (no kidding!) - posting anonymously as I do not need to show up on any dhs lists... geez it has gotten bad...
What employer would risk turning their place of work into a terrorist target by hiring an American?
My company is based in Scandinavia and has a couple of US offices, which is where I work. The weak US dollar and lack of local technical skills makes it very attractive for us to staff IT work in the US.
Having previously worked for giant US-based companies, it is interesting to be on the other side of the coin of outsourcing.
I really can't complain. My salary is above-average for the US, but relatively cheap compared to local employees. I also see some of their culture's benefits trickle over such as reasonable work-life balance and great health coverage. Plus, the company nearly shuts down when everyone over there takes their 5 week vacations in the summer. If I were willing to move there, I could work nearly tax-free (so I understand it) for a year or so.
Its not all roses...I do see plenty of xenophobia coming my way. Miscommunications are common because English is not their native tongue. My company encourages travel to combat these things. Tolerance and communication are key.
Overall, I would have to echo the sentiments in TFA.
American US dollar is worth shit now. So now you are a 3rd world country offering cheap labour. A little exaggeration never hurts :)
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
A couple of years ago I spent 6 rather pleasant months in Edmonton as an IT contractor for EPCOR -the local power company working on their main power consumption and billing system.
Great City, Great People -long commute (1200 miles one way every other week)
Between the smattering of French speakers and the large # of other European cultures it was almost like being in Europe without the language issues.
There are a lot of IT opportunities in Alberta now thanks to the Energy Boom, but you have to have a job there before they will give you a work permit and if you have priors they may refuse you entry
From the article:
"The U.S. and Europe are slowing down, but hot tech jobs beckon in China, India, and Eastern Europe."
Sure, which is precisely why all of our H1Bs returned home in waves and a large percentage of the available visas went begging this year.
Is you read a couple of paragraphs down, you'll find the story is a plant for a headhunting firm.
"According to Rob McGovern, CEO of JobFox, an international employment agency for IT, in today's global economy, people who truly understand how to do business globally are a minority."
...I'm supposed to move out of America to find a job in another country that is hiring an American?
I thought the reason that so called "guest workers" were flooding into the USA was because the wages in those world sweat shops were so horrid.
I almost got suckered into taking a job in downtown Toronto as IT Manager for a big law firm. At first it seemed like it would've been a really nice and prestigious gig, but would've been very far from home for me.
After doing a prudent amount of research, I declined mainly because of two showstopper reasons:
1) Translating the pay in Canadian dollars to US dollar value and also considering the cost of living difference would've ended up being about 12% less buying power than what I was already making in Dallas, TX.
2) I discovered that Toronto only has two seasons each year... Winter and July. (see above comment about living in Texas. Brrrrrrrrr)
When US workers must seek jobs outside of their country, something is fundamentally and woefully wrong. My heart bleeds for my fellow people in this position. It looks like 25+ years of Reagenomics has brought this serious onset of economic failure and the IT professional will likely be one of the hardest hit. The bean counters do not always see the intangible benefits that we bring as they tend to see in black and white. The bean counters see us more as a cost liability than a means of reducing the cost of revenue by streamlining the revenue earning process.
From my experience: The locals in countries where I have visited and worked basically put Americans into three groups --
1) Those who don't try to fit into the culture = Ugly Americans
2) Those who try to fit into the culture = spies
3) Those who obviously have lots of money = spouses or sources of ransom
That's my 10^100 Zimbabwean dollars...
The economies of most of Europe are fucked.
The economies of Africa and most of Asia have always been fucked.
Realistically Japan and China may weather this, though that's a big if since they sell a lot of stuff the the US and Europe, and if they do a few countries like Australia may stay afloat.
All those countries have pretty stringent immigration requirements, and to be honest, I'd be surprised if any of them are going to get out of this unscathed and times of economic trouble are generally times of intense xenophobia in even the most enlightened countries. Guest workers are never particularly popular when jobs are scarce(think about how most of Slashdot thinks about H1B visa holders).
You guys have a really freaking huge advantage in being naitive English speakers. Maybe you mostly suck at writing code, maybe your maths aren't that bright. But you still can speak and write English fluently. That alone should be enough to land you in for example a French company where I can guarantee you that most of the coders basically can say "hi" in English if even that. Use that, that is your unique selling proposition that most noone can match.
Football Odds
If your idea of a great life is hanging around airports and eating hotel food, go for it.
Foreigners can work in India. Provided they have a job and apply for a work permit. Many Indian IT companies are looking for experienced programmers who would be willing to work in India for a few years (for a start).I know people from New Zealand, Holland, UK and US who have been working in India for more than 3 years.
Indian Work Permit
In India, work permits, often referred to as employment visas can be issued either to skilled professionals or to people immigrating to India to fill a specific position for a named company.
Working permits in India are less defined than work permits in many other countries in that the Indian immigration structure does not present detailed requirements for obtaining one.
Work permits are a very subjective area of Indian visa services, however in order to live and work in India all candidates must secure one.
O this learning! What a thing it is - William Shakespeare
I don't think you'll get your hands on anything confidential now, given the enthusiasm of the US for industrial espionage via Customs seizures and tapping every communication (including this one) that they can get hold of.
You'll all be assumed evil spies, whohahahahaa..
Problem solved.
Language != Culture
Hope wisdom prevails.
About Hungary...
I'm in Scandinavia and there has been multiple Hungarians working where I've been the last year (two places). I asked them why they left (I might be home blind but, frankly, Hungary seems much more interesting than Scandinavia!) and they answered that more or less the same politicians were in government as before 1989. Really bad taxes and everyone good tried to leave.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
I suspect there's been a bit of a global financial meltdown since they worked on this report and now large numbers of people are losing their jobs through compulsory redundancy. Sorry guys, missed your window of opportunity,
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
I moved to Japan last year and took a gamble...
With only my education, experience (11 years) and some high level certs (CISA, CISSP, Cisco); I was able to land a job in Japan within 1 month. (I know someone will ask: My visa was processed in-country and I just had to wait for 2 weeks to finalize the working visa - You used to have to leave the country to receive a visa status.)
Granted, I didn't exactly do it "by the book" but most companies in Japan will barely talk to you if you are not already here. In my case, I saved some money and made some logistical decisions about my home in America and took the plunge. (I later flew back to America and sold off or donated most of the stuff I didn't care for... car & old furniture)
And I'm glad I did.
I've been taking Japanese lessons for 1 year and my Japanese is right at general conversation level but I still use English as it is required by my job in Tokyo. It's been a wonderful experience and I don't plan on returning to the states unless something comes along that is rock solid and is willing to pay for full relocation costs. (So, very much not likely to happen)
English & Skills are an easy sell, the guys that can't speak English or Japanese, have a very hard time making it work here.
On living in Paris:
"Financials: The cost of living in Paris is high. Salaries at first seem comparable, with a $75,000 position in the United States typically paying about EUR75,000 in Paris -- but with the current exchange rate, that's just $48,000."
Umm.. it's the other way around. EUR75,000 is more like $103,200 at current exchange rates.
U jacka**es must be halucinating. Its all about your big fat luxurios life running on loads of plastic overflowing out of your pockets.. It was bound to happen sooner or later since there there is no concept of an infinte treasury.... bloody hell man... u just exploited the freedom and misused and abused the financial system.... now that u have strected the elastic too far, its got comeback and hit u!! so bear the pain...
"When shit hits the fan, some run and some stay... If u wanna run and suffocate to death... do that" else its time to move on and fun jobs in better prospective locations... since isnt it all about survival? What is the use of ego if cant get u and your family a loaf of bread and a shelther everyday?
Nobody who is law abiding in Western Europe carries a gun.
What about Switzerland? Last time I checked, they were still considered to be in Western Europe.
I did this...went to China to work for an outsourcing company for 2 years. It was a great experience! I got to learn about the Chinese way of business, as well as the whole language/culture. It's amazing how culture effects how you do business, and it was extremely interesting to throw yourself into the middle of that and learn by doing.
Working for a software company paid peanuts by US standards, but was a fairly good income there, so we got to live in a beautiful modern apartment complex, and didn't feel financial burdens. I'd highly recommend the experience to others; it was great.
Okay, I am exaggerating, but England has a fairly high level of thuggery and knife violence even in nicer parts of London.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
The infoworld links in the summary are crap -- anyone have a real suggestion or article or website or whatever? Not necessarily or exclusively about IT (c.f. How To Get Laid In Japan -- caveat, that's many years old by now. I'm sure japanese sexual mores have completely changed and they're all puritans now) although IT is what I and most other /. readers would be most interested in, obviously.
FreeBSD for the impatient.