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Passport Required To Buy Mobile Phones In the UK
David Gerard points out a Times Online story that says:
"Everyone [in the UK] who buys a mobile telephone will be forced to register their identity on a national database under government plans to extend massively the powers of state surveillance. Phone buyers would have to present a passport or other official form of identification at the point of purchase. Privacy campaigners fear it marks the latest government move to create a surveillance society. A compulsory national register for the owners of all 72m mobile phones in Britain would be part of a much bigger database to combat terrorism and crime. Whitehall officials have raised the idea of a register containing the names and addresses of everyone who buys a phone in recent talks with Vodafone and other telephone companies, insiders say."
We've recently discussed other methods the UK government is using to keep track of people within its borders, such as ID cards for foreigners and comprehensive email surveillance.
When signing up for a new mobile phone contract, you're pretty much asked for two forms of identifications, such as a driving license, passport, utility bills, etc. so this is nothing new. The new part is the national surveillance database. Thank god I'm moving out of this country.
I had a similar problem when I wanted to by a SIM card in provincial Russia last month. The clerk wouldn't give me one, claiming that not only would I have to show a passport, but a Russian passport. I then just asked a friend to buy the damn thing for me. I thought it was stupid considering how, in most of the civilized world, travelers buy a SIM card from a local kiosk as a matter of course. It's sad to see the UK limiting the ease of travel, then.
Are the USA and the UK in some sort of competition to see who can do the more thorough job of obliterating their citizens' rights to privacy?
Lately there's been a morbid tit-for-tat article exchange going on here on slash, like the USA and UK are trying to outdo one another. Just when you think the USA or UK is as bad as it gets, there's a reply.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
In whose name they doing this? Is it to stop terrorists, or to make us think of the children?
...Cellphone call resgisters YOU!
Oh, it seems in the UK as well...
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
I have purchased phones in many countries through out Europe, and Thailand as well, and have always been forced to provide official ID.
Made the decision not to purchase a phone now that I have moved to the USA, so I have no idea about the States. But since I can't even get through the switchboard at my utility company without my SSN, I imagine it might be difficult to buy a phone or have a contract without ID.
Of course, that's a guess. Not saying I agree with this regime - just observing a fact.
Ebay has high end phones on it so you can use it.
...How the headline is accurate?
Same here, which is why there are services where you can send prepaid SIM cards and get back a different one, registered to someone else. Some risks might be involved, though.
Fleur de Sel
Cell phone theft and street robberies are about to rise very rapidly in the UK.
Another excellent idea from the UK government.
From the same people who brought you the excellent "don't bring bottles of water on a plane" legislation. Go UK!
Seriously, please do something about this, join Liberty:
http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/
Criminals steal phones. Criminals can buy phones abroad.
And they will know your name and address, or at least your address.
The British are each day taking a step closer towards the society envisioned in 1984. Orwell predicted this would happen forty years in the future -- he should've bet on 65-80 -- but still not so far off.
If this is coming true, when will we see an invasion from Mars?
Someone once asked a while ago how much freedom will we be willing to surrender for a false sense of security.
It seems that in the US and UK this very scenario is playing itself out and all we can do is sit, horrified and watch in spite of ourselves.
It's like sitting in the passenger seat of a car that is being driven by a lunatic - you squint your eyes closed but keep peeking because you know what is bound to happen, but you cant help but look and hope you will be somehow wrong.
And safe.
One thing proponents of all this gathering of data on people keep forgetting is that data gets lost, stolen or otherwise compromised on a daily basis.
The UK is a shining example of data getting lost.
How long before a terrorist hacker steals the info and spoofs a phonecall to a bomb that is detonated via cellphone?
Suddenly the possibilities of being wrongly implemented in a terrorist plot is so much more possible.
This is a bad idea all around.
I am glad that I do not live in the US or the UK - if my country implements this kind of policy I would start browsing using the TOR network, set up my own mailserver to do direct relay and eventually fall back on using older means of communication - snail mail and pretty much nothing else.
Who is it that said "As soon as we change our way of living the terrorists have won"?
I tell you now - terrorists are holding the citizens of the US and the UK captive via proxy, and the proxy is ironically the very governments they are battling.
They win on all fronts at this moment.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
Will soon be the safest country in the world to live, or the scariest.
Safety hasn't been a problem for the UK for quite some time now. I'm putting in my vote for scariest.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
...this was the case from the beginning of cell phones. And it is not enough to show some ID, the service providers even photocopy it. I think this is standard practice in most european countries (maybe except the photocopy part).
Government cannot make man richer, but it can make him poorer. - Ludwig von Mises
Yes, it extends to prepaid. RTFM.
It's aimed at de-anonymising prepaid, over-the-counter sales, since those of us who signed a contract and pay for our phones monthly by direct debit can already be tied to the phone number with a little digging.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
100 miles below the surface a thriving society of Martians, little green men, plot our eventual demise. They are advanced enough to escape detection by our puny remote controlled buggies.
Why is NO ONE from UK protesting against this monstrous humongous assault on rights and freedom?
I mean this UK government is incapable of fulfilling everything that people yet is perfectly capable of converting everyone into a criminal and shooting innocent people in subways and the like.
Why doesn't the stupid holier-than-thou BBC question the government over this massive haul?
First it was ISP snooping and 3-strikes law, next it was throttling, next it was email provacy gone, next it was bedroom privacy gone, next it was laptop privacy gone and now it is this.
Everyday we hear massive new amounts of such assaults against human rights in UK, which puts China and even Korea to shame.
Pretty soon to walk down the street with your dog, the cops would require a passport; for the dog.
And instead of US where privacy and freedom is enshrined, UK depends on courts which seem more likely than ever to side with the stupid government which can't look after its own employees who visit prostitutes and lose their laptops.
Why doesn't the Lords do something?
The commons is made up of Common riff-raff which are more concerned with nailing down the next highest-priced whore who comes their way, while public servants regularly lose private information and then ask us to check our bank accounts.
Why isn't there a law which imposes mandatory criminal jail sentences for people who lose private information.
If an employee loses a laptop, he goes to serve bubba in prison for 12 months or more with free lube given by people.
Why isn't there a law which prevents people from entering a home or accessing someone's private property without authorization from Lords or the Queen herself. in that way if something goes wrong and an innocent person is shot dead because he jumped over a ticket barrier, she is forced to face jail.
Dumb ass citizens! Wake up!
70 years ago, a failed austrian artist did the same thing and propagated Reich. He was atleast intelligent and brilliant.
Your current crop of leaders can't spell their own properly let alone build a reich. The max they can build is what Viagra builds for them!
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
...in recognizing fake passports?
That being a low paying job, I am guessing it employs many immigrants.
From like... I don't know... Nigeria?
And what are the current UK laws on creating and carrying around a obviously fake passport?
You know... kind that would have big red letters saying "FAKE PASSPORT! NOT REAL! NOT A FORM OF IDENTIFICATION! FOR JOKE PURPOSES ONLY!" on it?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
1. Wait in front of mobile-selling location.
2. Spot mobile-buying victim.
3. Follow victim for a while.
4. Club victim on the head, grab bag, run.
You get: one or more mobile phones and cards, one or more forms of ID, money, credit card(s), car and/or house key(s), one or more packet(s) of tissues, one or more packet(s) of gum, various other bonuses.
Or are you perhaps one of those pussy terrorists that is afraid of hitting people on the head and only does suicide bombings?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
It was over a decade ago when they were getting happy with CCTV cameras in London. We talked about how creepy that was and that they should be careful that they were not sliding down a slippery slope. We were dismissed, we were laughed at, and now look. We were right.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
UKers should be in their politician's faces over this. Send an email. Mail a letter. Fax them. Phone them. Preferably all of the above. Political pressure is the only remedy against the constant erosion of your rights.
As long as I am not required by law to carry a charged mobile at all times when I leave home I don't see a problem.
This would have prevented Jason Bourne from buying a phone and planting it on Simon Ross to talk to him covertly without the CIA being able to trace the call.
My guess would be the UK government watched the movie and decided this loophole need to be closed.
Someone needs to tell the PM in England that Orewell's book 1984 was never meant to be a handbook on how to run a country. It was intended to be a warning against such control.
Sigh.. it's a slippery slope until those in the US begin looking at these with genuine interest, with the intent to deploy these measures within our own borders.
However, if you're planning $LARGE_SPECTACULAR_JIHADIST_ATTACK, and you steal a phone, it makes you a little more likely to be caught/fail.
You don't. You get a sympathizer to buy one for you, and then claim it was stolen. Enough phones are stolen anyway that this won't look suspicious.
Open societies are going to be vulnerable to terrorism. We can accept that, give up our freedoms, or be so scary nobody will want to mess with us.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Andy
Another belated movie plot threat response. Specifically, The Bourne Ultimatum, in which Bourne arrives at London's Waterloo station and immediately purchases a pre-paid cellphone to give to his journalist contact. If he had to show a passport to buy that phone... he could have been delayed by a couple of seconds, while he decided which of his fake passports to use. Gee.
(this is not a
Because the bad guys cannot steal cell phones.
\u262D = \u5350
What I still don't understand is if there are 72 million mobile phones in use in the UK, how come the UK population is only 60,776,238 (July 2007 est.)?
I'm not convinced that almost 20% of the population have two mobiles they use at the same time.
Has anyone got a more up to date figure?
Anyone remember when typewriters had to be registered in several Eastern European countries? Being mechanical devices, each had its own unique signature (character shapes, weights, and so forth). The idea was to be able to track the origin of unapproved newsletters etc. which were typically produced via typewriter and stencil or carbon paper. This was all rendered irrelevant by the arrival of PC-based communications (a rear-guard action was fought over printers, faxes, and so forth).
Looks like the UK has just revised those old Soviet-era laws for current technology. Anonymous communication must be considered to be really subversive in the UK.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
It strikes me that ham radio operators world-wide have lived with citizenship requirements from day one. I suspect that would be true of a great many other fixed and mobile services. Why should cell phones be any different?
I am posting a link to 2 petitions that people in Britain can sign opposing such action. Please sign it and pass it on to as many people as you can: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/privacy-matters/ http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/edatabase/
I wonder how the legislation will impact of software radio mobile phone clients? After all the same device that 5 minutes ago was a mobile can, at the flick of a switch, be a radio-control car controller.
Gotta start getting ready for 2012, just gotta do it, can't let those chinese show them up, right?
Perhaps the New Labour party is thinking if they become the laughing stock of security during 2012, they risk a quicker return to the wilderness years...
And what are the current UK laws on creating and carrying around a obviously fake passport?
You know... kind that would have big red letters saying "FAKE PASSPORT! NOT REAL! NOT A FORM OF IDENTIFICATION! FOR JOKE PURPOSES ONLY!" on it?
Who cares? If you're looking to acquire an untraceable mobile phone for criminal purposes, the crime of carrying a fake passport isn't a big deal.
And getting hold of a pretty convincing fake shouldn't be that hard.
I'll bet phone salespeople won't be looking terribly closely at the passport photos. Stealing a passport or doing a half-assed job of faking one if probably sufficient. It's a good thing them thar terrorists have no interest or talent in faking or stealing passports.
That was a good point. The more often you carry your ID everywhere, the more easier that your ID can be owned.
See my journal, I write things there
"...I don't see why this is such a bad idea."
Then you're a retard.
You and your 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' mates are the reason why Britain will be a fascist hell-hole in ten years. Having emigrated a couple of years ago, in no small part because of your beloved 'security' measures, I dread having to go back in case next time I can't get out again.
"Sure, I've been hacked off for getting three points on my driving license and a £60 fine for driving at 7mph over the speed limit past a speed camera"
Then you're a criminal retard; you claim in one sentence that you're law-abiding, and then in the next state that you break the law. How stupid can you get?
You're willing to hand the keys to total surveillance of the British people over to the government in the hope that it will reduce spam and 'nuisance calls'? Are you fucking insane?
Even if you're crazy enough to trust Labour, what the fuck do you think a party like the BNP will do if they're ever elected and have these kind of surveillance measures in place? And don't say it can't happen; the neo-Nazis are gaining power across Europe, and a major European recession will lead to a major backlash looking for scapegoats.
In this case, yes. If you would point out the flaws they would fix it, leaving it alone means it will collapse under its own weight of incompetence and greedy consultancies soaking up the budget so there's nothing left for the actual system.
I call it the "Yes minister" effect.
The sooner the country loses the incompetent clowns that run it now the better. There is an economy to fix which is presently a LOT more important than this (no, I don't think Brown will "lead the UK out of the crisis" - he's the one who led the UK into it in the first place).
Insert
All the networks bar stolen IMEI numbers. Most likely what will happen is that people will just find ways to acquire both phones and SIM cards without using ID.
As it stands this wont cause any problems in the short term. I've got quite a few SIM cards lying round for various networks, none of which are associated with any names. As it happens my current PAYG sim is registered to my name just so I can use the control panel on my networks website.
Trading mobile phones and accessories happens to attract a fair few dealers (it's a big cash in hand business so easy to make it look like your making money selling phones, not coke) so I think as soon as word of this law hits then people will just start stockpiling SIMs. In the short term this wont make any difference, it's only over the longer term as unregistered SIMs start to become scarce that it'll cause problems. Getting unregistered mobile phones, however, will be as easy as a trip to mainland Europe.
Nick
The TFA doesn't mention it but it'd be ridiculous if they didn't apply the same rules to acquiring SIM cards.
Nick
Why are they now the most paranoid country in the world. Even Iran and N. Korea are not as bad as Britain, nor was the USSR. Perhaps it was the demise of Monty Python's Flying Circus that put them over the edge. I suppose that show would be illegal now along with Benny Hill. Too subversive, you know, the giant breasts and all.
I know of a working O2 SIM, 2yrs old, unregistered. I also got, last year, at least one working unregistered Fresh SIM and I assume the 6 others still sealed worked too; they only accept top-up via card payment making anonymity a moot point unless you get one of those prepay debit cards you can top-up using PayPoints in shops. I've been on T-Mobile PAYG for about 4 years and I only had to register my SIM because I wanted to use the features on their website.
Are you sure that's really meant to be the case for all SIMs on all networks?
Nick
Your address can just be a mail box / drop box
The UK really is becoming the police state I was so scared it would become. I'll be moving away as soon as I can, I think.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Not a problem :)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3098104.stm
(article from 2003, but they are beurocrats, it probably stil works)
Oh they will really get under the skin of those terrorists by making them live without the convenience of a cell phone. That's likely to make most of them reconsider their professions. I mean they are used to living in caves with no heat, hot water, electricity or plumbing. But take away their cell phones and they will have had it!
Yeah that takes care of the foreign terrorists entering UK. But now how do you stop the terrorists who were born and grew up in the UK like the ones responsible for the bus and metro bombings? I'm more than certain hey had their own mobiles, and I doubt in those cases knowing they bought cellphones would have prevented crap.
Yes, I'll be more than pissed off if someone in a black suit comes knocking on my door with a piece of CCTV footage or taped phone call but I'll worry about it when it happens.
It'll be a bit late then to do anything about it.
You're absolutely right that a) you probably have nothing to hide, and b) it's likely nothing bad will happen to you directly as a result of this, but... doesn't that still seem like a bad reason to hand over another tiny bit of personal freedom to the government? Do you really think this will make your lives any safer?
And you're right - we Americans have our own issues to deal with as well. I think a lot of us get nervous about the current happenings in the UK, because of the similarities in our cultures and values. As such, it's easy to think "if it could happen there..."
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
The answer for those of us not in the UK is to stay away from "The Village" and let Patrick McGoohan (#6) fight off #2 and the "water balloons".
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
My thoughts exactly. I've just wrapped them in couple of layers of sarcasm.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Up till recently, you could buy a phone in India with no ID. In fact, you could buy phones that have no IMEI. The second part is going to be changed soon, but the first isn't going anywhere. The only reason they're requiring phones to have IMEI is to keep the cheap Chinese makes away.
There simply is no point, the real point to capture someone is the SIM. That's the bit that's hard to get without ID, here. And even that isn't too strict. It's too easy to get a connection on fake ID, at least in India, and I don't think people in other developing countries have a hard time either.
Do Jacqui Smith and the rest of the fucktards (I've just added 'fucktard' to my Firefox dictionary - I have a feeling I'll be using it more in the coming months) at the Home Office not understand anything?
Can they not see how easily these measures will be circumvented? Have they not learned anything from the data-loss scandals? Are they actually that naive?
When the ex-head of MI5 says we're over-reacting to the terrorist threat, I'm inclined to think we're over-reacting.
With any luck the Lords will take a quick scan over the legislation, wipe their asses with it, and throw it straight back in Jacquie Smith's stupid face.
C-x C-s C-x k
1984 isn't a fucking instruction manual.
You and your 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' mates are the reason why Britain will be a fascist hell-hole in ten years. Having emigrated a couple of years ago, in no small part because of your beloved 'security' measures, I dread having to go back in case next time I can't get out again.
So if you've already emigrated then why do you care what is happening in Britain? And I don't accept your statement - nobody leaves the UK because of surveillance, they leave because of warmer weather, a better job, maybe even meeting a new spouse.
And yes, I already have a second home overseas and at some point I'll be emigrating too - not because of surveillance but because I'm getting close to thinking about retiring early and just enjoying the rest of my life in a nice warm climate.
Then you're a criminal retard; you claim in one sentence that you're law-abiding, and then in the next state that you break the law. How stupid can you get?
I doubt the criminal justice system views me as a law breaker purely for a minor driving offence - besides which, a speeding offence does not give you a criminal record. You've probably been too long out of the UK such that you need to do some reference reading before to bone up on current laws here before making facetious comments.
You're willing to hand the keys to total surveillance of the British people over to the government in the hope that it will reduce spam and 'nuisance calls'? Are you fucking insane?
With an English mother, I am born-and-bred "Berkshire" British - but I'm alive today because my late father, as a Ukrainian POW, was allowed to settle here after the war despite having fought alongside the Germans to fight back the Russians who were marching all over the Ukraine. Technically, he was an "enemy" of the British, was a POW over here for a few years after the war but was one of the lucky ones not sent back to be murdered by Stalin.
So you will pardon me if I actually recognise that Britain does actually have some things to make me quite proud of being British.
Even if you're crazy enough to trust Labour, what the fuck do you think a party like the BNP will do if they're ever elected and have these kind of surveillance measures in place? And don't say it can't happen; the neo-Nazis are gaining power across Europe, and a major European recession will lead to a major backlash looking for scapegoats.
Now that you know a bit about my personal history, don't you now feel rather stupid for making such a stupid assumption about what my political leanings possibly are? For you information, I am very pro-European unity, I think that the worst possible scenario for this country is the "limbo" state we are in now of neither being "in or out" and, quite frankly, I do not want to see Britain opting out the EEC only to be absorbed by the United States as a new member state.
I actually haven't been pro-Labour in years, Bliar made sure of that - and whilst I think Gordon Brown is not a particularly strong prime minister, the fact is that he's a damn good chancellor and a good example for Europe as to how to deal with a financial crisis. In other words, in the past few weeks I've become more pro-Labour than I have been in many years.
And based on the above, I won't even lower myself to comment on the BNP. I think you'll recogonise what my likely feelings are about those people.
Please do not make assumptions about someone purely on a few lines of opinion - you'll only end up making a fool of yourself.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
But hey, it's your freedom. I left because I saw it coming, that's the advantage of working in gov and military. No bloody way.
Like I said to the other poster, give me 5 to 10 years and I'll be out as well. Not because of surveillance but because I've earnt enough money from being an educated British person (and paid enough taxes also) that I can then give up working and live near a beach in Spain for the rest of my days. (Oh, and before you say anything, I'm just about fluent in Spanish and have more Spanish than English friends in Spain so let's not have any "Englishman abroad" comments either.)
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I take your point but, quite frankly, I think there's much bigger things to worry about in Britain today than registration of mobile phones.
There's already huge dissatisfaction in this country about the lazy good-for-nothings who lack any form of personal pride and live on state benefits together with the high immigration - and a stupid government that doesn't realise that they can kill two birds with one stone by forcing the idle bastards to do the jobs that immigrants currently do, thus doing something positive about immigration as well.
Yes, I digress but the point I'm trying to make is that honest people here are totally pissed off whether or not mobile phones are registered or unregistered - so it's a minor issue in the whole scheme of things.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Well, everyone know about history that UK liked the NAZI ideas. Hitler already think UK was at your side ( just read history to know that). If was not come to GERMAN CRAZY NAZI side was a kind of decision ( The UK QUEEN AND FAMILY like this ideas). So, why not now with the idea spread about TERRORISM/PEDIFLES/ELETRONIC PIRATES put this ideas on? Dont know other ones here. Reading and writing ..
but for who dont live at UK and visit there., some crazy things scares. More than the CRAZINESS from russia/CHINNA.
TODAY IAM less worried to visit Russia, and china ( thing i already do a lot this year).
There i know exact what i can and i cant do.
But UK.? Australia? If a airport guy look bad to me he just can arrest me. ( this happens all time, but news dont speak so much about this there UK and CLOSED MEDIA/NEWS COUNTRYES like US).
Or if you have a more black skin whit a more like mid orient face and live in the wrong place on UK.
IF you just do something suspect, they SHOT IN YOUR READ in subway or SEND YOU out country in a expatriation. This happens and seems just at BROADCAST NEWS outside this places show this.
I visited UK this year for 5 times and same living outside Europe and having a GERMAN/EURO PASSPORT ( iam living Brazil. ) THEY LOOK ME BAD BECAUSE IAM COMING FROM OUTSIDE WRONG BORDER. The UK government start to become CRAZY, like in a kind of HISTORY BIG BROTHER BOOK.
When something happens piece by piece, seems not be a big things.
But soo, not much distant, UK will build a big WALL around the island and talk about what you can use or not at your day by day ( because morality), and what you can read or note ( because this can influence BAD your kid).
When they will start to put CAMs inside home just to ALREAD be certain you are not doing something BAD for your kid?
DUDES this is something to worry. and worry already,..
HITLER come to POWER BY ELECTIONS, like a SALVATORE. and become what we know.
The luck our was at this time. The world was so polarised of ideas ( FASCISM/COMMUNISM/FREE WORLD/NOT KNOW WORLD) that the craziness become visible. but today? the ideas mean MONEY. If UK, AUSTRALIA, some Nordic countries , and EVEN US with this TOTALITARIANISM IDEAS start do it, one will do nothing.
NO MORE THE CRAZY YANKEE WITH BIG IDEAL OF LIBERTY TO PROTECT US.
TODAY WE ALREADY KNOW AT UK:
HAVE BLACK SKIN, this is BAD.
HAVE A FACE LIKE MID ORIENT, THIS IS BAD.
SPEAK LANGUAGE SOMEONE AT STREET NO HAVE IDEA, this is BAD.
RESEARCH, TALK, or EVEN TRY TO THINK about speak against government, THIS IS BAD.
SPEAK ABOUT TERRORISM, EVEN IF YOU ARE AT UNI, a PHD AND DOING A RESEARCH. THIS IS BAD.
What more?
WE NEED TO WAIT they start speak about the JEWISH?
Just a point of VIEW, Italia that are easy to pursuit this kind of ideas to. Catholic church started the MARCH for the UNIVERSAL HUMAN HISTORY change ( OF COURSE, CHANGE THE VIEW POINT OF THEM, WHERE CHURCH IS MOTHER, CHURCH IS FATHER, WE NEVER DO NOTHING WRONG, EVER)., Here in Brazil this is more evident. Where they use MONEY, POWER AND TV to SAY THEY NEVER KILL NO ONE, ALL RELIGION ARE THE WRONG ONE BESIDES WITH A OTHE FACE EVERYTHING IS OK, WHO KILL JESUS WAS JEWISH. Here this already starting to happens.. When will happens in UK?
Iam worried about the world future, where who in past, give us a sign of hope, and ALREADY SUFFER a lot because this kind of IDEAS AND ACTS ( maybe the govern not, if iam not wrong ROYAL family/palaces doesn't loose so much in war, but the people, HUU they know well, what WAS FIRE, BOMBS AND TERROR).
IN A CRAZINESS future we will need to ask help to russia and chinna agains the totalitarianism of UK/US and friends.
JusT a view point.
In between paroxisms of fear, the paper makes it clear that this is a purely hypothetical plan and, like most things the government does, will probably come to nothing. It's not surprising that the government has people coming up with ideas like this, and it's certainly not all that scary.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
They used anti-terror laws against Iceland, who are not at all terrorists.
When? Do you have a cite on this?
Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.
From TFA:
The proposals have sparked a fierce backlash inside Whitehall. Senior officials in the Home Office have privately warned that the database scheme is impractical, disproportionate and potentially unlawful. The revolt last week forced Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, to delay announcing plans for the database until next year.
Bear in mind that the Government has already had to delay and dilute the ID card scheme and it's relevant that Jacqui Smith (hiss!) is delaying this too. It's also comforting that civil service mandarins are up in arms about it.
It's a Good Thing that stuff like this comes up on Slashdot as the more people who can kick up a fuss about stuff like this the better, however I'd remind American readers that regardless of Brown's mini-bounce back in the polls, IMHO it's likely that New Labour will be out of power before they can implement this.
I'm no fan of Cameron or the Tories, but chances are they're going to be as populist as possible to get back into government, and creating a massive surveillance database is not a populist move. With any luck the Union will be toast in a few years anyway and the newly independent ex-UK states can start behaving like grown-up modern democracies.
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
I'm not understanding why Britain wants to be so much like North Korea. Britain is trying to create terror in its own civilian population and yet claims to be fighting against terrorism. There's something not right here.
The BBC had an article on a guy who was running a fake ID setup for illegal immigrants, it's not like anyone determined can't get one.
Secondly, my passport doesn't have my address on it anyway, so conceivably neither do any of the fake ones. If it is linked to any address, that address, like my driving license, will be my parents' address. They could have moved in the meantime (or passed away or something) so the database still wouldn't know where I live. If you were fairly careful I'm pretty sure that even with perfectly legitimate ID you could still at least keep your address unknown.
At the end of the day I can't see how it's going to prevent terrorism. Some of them are muppets I'll grant you, but they are more likely to blow themselves up in a toilet, or set themselves on fire and get beaten up by Scotsmen than to cause any major loss of life. Look back a few years to when we had the IRA. The amount of effort that went in to tracking and surveillance of the IRA did not stop them from blowing up a fair amount of stuff. This approach of surveying everyone will not work no matter how hard people try. It may prevent a few attacks but it will not prevent all of them and it will not preserve the freedoms that we want protected.
I bought a prepaid SIM on Sept 27th at Carphone Warehouse and I was asked for my passport.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Apparently Britain and the U.S. fought and defeated the Nazi's, and Soviet Communism out of jealousy. They wanted to be the top fascists on the block.
No wonder the US still hates Cuba. Pure envy and jealousy.
Is there an English speaking country left on this bloody planet which has a sane government? I'm about ready to vote with my feet and quit the UK, assuming I can find anyone stupid enough to take me.
Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.
I had to provide ID to Virgin Mobile before they'd even sell me a prepaid SIM card, some 6-7 years ago. Though I don't know if that was legislation or their own policy. I don't remember if Telstra required ID but I certainly had to provide details to activate.
On the other hand, in New Zealand I was able to get a Vodafone SIM card, put it in my mobile and use it right away. That may have changed by now, though I doubt it because I'm not really sure that terrorists would want to attack New Zealand anyway.
In any case, isn't it possible to get a rough location of a mobile anyway? If it's being used in a single location for long enough then it's probably enough for authorities to track down the address. Besides, terrorists (and criminals) will just resort to identity fraud, so overall it's pointless and will just mean that law abiding citizens are the ones being denied privacy/anonymity if they desire it.
Jeremy
Melbourne, Australia
Jabber Australia
I've recently bought two prepaid phones at a large chain store in the Netherlands, and there is absolutely no ID required or even asked. 100% anonymous.
Bart
The UK is doing all they can to become the first country in the world to fully implement Mr. Orwell's nightmare-ish vision. It looks they're quite successful in this enterprise, although they should watch out for the runner-up USofA.
Wait until they're being used to track protest organizers... err, I mean riot inciters.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
If a law is rushed through because of the "thereat of terror", and we are all told that it is necessary to bypass scrutiny because of that it does not make it better if they later say "of course it was not just for terrorism". In my books that makes it worse, a general law should definitely be given full scrutiny.
Next time you vote, vote the 4th, and write, No no nazi style modern govts.
I hope all of todays pollys are proud of them selves, their grandparents would be screaming bloody murder.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I have hard evidence that London Underground overcharges PAYG to quite a substantial degree (at least at the time when I discovered it, this was almost a year ago), and I checked with two different cards just to be sure. I managed to spend £17 over a 2 day period, only traveling inside zones 1..4 - you can work out for yourself just how much more that is than is required.
When I started talking to customer support about paying some of it back, they came back with a killer line: "I should register the card online" or "give them my details over the phone" before they could do anything. When I asked them which part of "unregistered" they didn't understand they told me "it was for my protection because someone could have found my card". When I finished laughing I asked them how they were going to prove that *I* wasn't the finder, and this was when the service guy finally went off script and admitted he couldn't work that one out either :-).
I could have gotten the money back but it wasn't enough to bother. I don't live in the UK so I would cost me more to go after the money than just write it off as a business cost.
Last but not least, isn't it impressive how well they are set up to take your money well in advance, but how hard it is to get some of it back? Since John Mayor came up with the Customer Charter they have been actively hiding the fact that you can get your money back for delayed journeys, and this must have saved them millions over the years. Just consider:
- you have to know the scheme exists. Even as much as 5 years ago, I did a check at a station. Out of 35 brochures there was ONE which mentioned the scheme in a one-liner, but then omitted to describe what it actually did.
- with ticketed travel you have to retain the ticket. What happens when you pass the gate? Yup - extra effort for you to hang on to the ticket..
- somehow, the opportunity to directly and automatically refund onto the Oyster PAYG and prepay cards has been "omitted" - the whole process is still voucher based
- handing in a voucher means manual labor, the ticket office has about a million forms they need to fill in so you're the one holding up the queue. Accident or social engineering? Your choice..
Ripoff Britain. It took New Labour to turn it into an art, and combine it with the type of state 1984 had been trying to warn us against. Instead, they treat 1984 like a blueprint..
Insert
Its mainly the old stupid fugs that vote for the current gung ho admins.
Come on young people, tell you grand parents to smarten the f up, and vote for freedom, print them out stuff from the internet, and tell em, if you dont vote right, we'll burn the govt down and trash your history.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Blair was hoping to revive the Empire day glories.
Thatcher would have jumped at that chance.
She was a realist, but her actions in office showed her unstinting loyalty to US, especially Reagan.
She would have steamrolled opposition to war and by now instead of 4,000 US soldiers it would be british who would be paying the ultimate sacrifice.
Disraeli would have told W. to stick it in his ass.
So would have Mountbatten, but sadly those are gone.
Churchill would not have supported, but he would have allowed Gitmo to be built in Gibraltar.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Newer Nokia phones, in fact newer phones in general are quite hard to change the IMEI on. They've started storing it in a proper write-once ROM. Having said that, I suppose one could just get a compatible ROM chip and install it.
The 5yr prison sentence for changing IMEI is quite justified. The only reason you'd want to change your IMEI is because your phone is stolen which means your knowingly handling stolen goods and most probably reprogramming stolen phones for other people too. I can't think of a single legitimate reason to change your IMEI, it's not like ethernet where MAC spoofing is useful for lots of reasons.
Nick
...in recognizing fake passports?
Real UK passports are kind-of easy to spot. They have a translucent hologram over the page with your identity info on it, which would be very hard to fake up.
Who cares?
I do.
I don't want to have to commit a criminal act in order to have anonymous phone calls. I'm concerned that a lot of my legal but unusual activities would single me out for police harrassment if they knew what I did. I don't want them trawling through a database of my phone calls (including my location when I made/received them) and text messages with automated data mining algorithms looking for "terrorists" (which will, of course, be prone to producing false positives).
Luckily for me, I already have an anonymous phone, and the legislation being discussed sounds like it would only require registration for new customers. But it's only a single step further to require the phone companies to switch off all those old, unregistered phones. And I'm also concerned for people like me who haven't already acquired such a phone, but might need one in the future.
You'd me amazed how often people see "a translucent hologram" as just a "shiny thingy". Which is very similar to any other shiny thingy.
And lets not forget older/sight impaired people.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority, rather than personal or individual freedoms. ..."
doesn't describe the rhetoric from 'strong on defense' from both the US and the UK.
Oh, right, the "well, somebody else had it worse, so we're not really doing that bad" defense.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?