Slashdot Mirror


Compromising Wired Keyboards

Flavien writes "A team from the Security and Cryptography Laboratory (LASEC) in Lausanne, Switzerland, found 4 different ways to fully or partially recover keystrokes from wired keyboards at a distance up to 20 meters, even through walls. They tested 11 different wired keyboard models bought between 2001 and 2008 (PS/2, USB and laptop). They are all vulnerable to at least one of the 4 attacks. While more information on these attacks will be published soon, a short description with 2 videos is available."

277 comments

  1. No comment.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I won't type what I think about that...

    1. Re:No comment.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I won't type what I think about that...

      That's ok, we have laser microphones and bugs to pick up how you really feel.

      Sincerely,
      NSA

    2. Re:No comment.. by walt-sjc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Great - now I have to tinfoil my house as well as my head!

  2. TEMPEST by michaelhood · · Score: 5, Informative

    This appears to be related to why TEMPEST attacks work on monitors.

    1. Re:TEMPEST by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. Already a decade ago I was hearing people claim that the best way to enter passphrases and the like would be an on-screen keyboard whose keyboard map changes after each letter is input, all ideally displayed with a TEMPEST-resistant font. Even back then people knew anything wired was snoopable.

    2. Re:TEMPEST by __aajxax2722 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree. I don't see the big "News Flash" on this. This was well known back in the mid 80's when I fixed computers for the military. They had to be Tempest certified before and after the fixes. It was common knowledge that EMF emissions would be able to be picked up and recorded some distance away from the host computer.

    3. Re:TEMPEST by Hoplite3 · · Score: 3, Funny

      The TEMPEST attack is nothing compared to the TEMPEST 2000 attack. Pew pew pew!

      --
      Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
    4. Re:TEMPEST by FiveDozenWhales · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Perhaps something like The Optimus Tactus would be ideal?

    5. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You know something, it would be a total bastard to get a virus for those kinds of keyboards.

      Just imagine you're sitting there, working away, then BHAM, massive penis replaces all your key-set.

      Or 5 goatse...s, goatsii? What would that be?

    6. Re:TEMPEST by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't see the big "News Flash" on this.

      I think the big news flash on this is that they actually performed four different, real attacks on real, physical keyboards. Theory is one thing, someone actually saying "hey, we can really do this on the cheap now to 11 different keyboards sold at your local Best Buy; here's how..." is another. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider that "news for nerds."

    7. Re:TEMPEST by anagama · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How about using Xmodmap -- I could see a script that generates a random keyboard layout, a key-to-character chart would have to printed on the screen (which could be a problem I suppose), then you poke out your password, and then revert to the usual layout.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    8. Re:TEMPEST by anagama · · Score: 1

      On second thought -- is it the actual key being pressed that creates the signal, or the sequence of bits for a particular character being transmitted that creates the signal? I'm guessing its the latter in which case randomizing the keyboard is only annoying.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    9. Re:TEMPEST by ATMD · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh great, now you've given them the idea.

      One goatse was bad enough :(

      --
      Nobody else has this sig.
    10. Re:TEMPEST by anagama · · Score: 1

      On third thought, the keyboard doesn't transmit a character -- it sends a signal which software interprets as a character. So randomizing Xmodmap should work.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    11. Re:TEMPEST by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Kind of in the range of Duh isn't this. Tempest goes back into the 80s and maybe even past that.
      Seems very odd to me that this is news. I remember seeing an article on slashdot about reading modem leds, and all sorts of other methods.
      I guess you could wrap your keyboard cable and monitor cable in a conductor and ground it to help cut the effective range down. Or just not worry about it.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    12. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I think a better solution is to use true multi-factor authentication, so they need something more than sniffed information to be able to use your log-in credentials.

    13. Re:TEMPEST by Amouth · · Score: 1

      i say fuck it.. and throw caution to the wind..

      *i use wireless keyboards/mice - because they are convient

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    14. Re:TEMPEST by ThisNukes4u · · Score: 1

      Xmodmap like you suggest would work. Another idea I just had is some sort of scrambler/descrambler on each end of the keyboard(one embedded inside the keyboard right after the controller, one on the end of the PS/2 or USB wire) that could encode the bits using some predetermined input such as the date(could be encoded in an EEPROM for over a year's worth of codings easily). Would require hardware hacking but the result would be essentially the same as your idea, except everything typed would be encoded and you wouldn't have to give up your touch-typing abilities. Or even potentially you wouldn't need a descrambler at the PC side, you could just use an xmodmap script depending on the day.

      --
      thisnukes4u.net
    15. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-577.html

    16. Re:TEMPEST by lbgator · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...I could see a script that generates a random keyboard layout, a key-to-character chart would have to printed on the screen...

      INGdirect does this with their log in. Users have a numeric password, they can enter it by:
      -using the mouse to click the number pad displayed on the screen, or
      -typing the letters that are randomly assigned to the numbers on the screen

    17. Re:TEMPEST by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Perhaps something like The Optimus Tactus would be ideal?

      "Optimus Tactus"... What a wonderful name for something that has absolutely zero tactile response...

      I would have loved something like that back when I was a kid watching "Star Trek: The Next Generation", wishing I could be Wesley Crusher and hang out with all those cool Trek people doing all those cool Trek things... But there's really something to be said for having a proper physical switch...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    18. Re:TEMPEST by VorpalRodent · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not a virus...a security system. No password, just hit the button hidden in the one place that no one wants to go.

      On second thought...I need to go wash my mind out with bleach now.

      --
      Take it to the limit, everybody to the limit, come on, everybody fhqwhgads.
    19. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus, when you think about how pricey the current keyboard by them is, just imagine how much more it will be to have an entire OLED keyboard with touchscreen...
      I don't want to imagine the price, for the sake of my health.

    20. Re:TEMPEST by Jay+L · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think the big news flash on this is that they actually performed four different, real attacks on real, physical keyboards.

      When the first mass-transit-quality teleporter is installed in a major city, there will be a commenter on Slashdot, sneering at it: "This isn't news. They've been doing that at the quantum level for years."

    21. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just use one time passwords and you're safe. Wrote a little script that prints me out a card of passcodes which are asked after regular password/code. Banks around here use this all the time and it's still unbreakable if user does not submit passes to random phishing attack.

    22. Re:TEMPEST by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      And I need to go wash mine out with a .357...

    23. Re:TEMPEST by ORBAT · · Score: 2, Funny

      "If you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into you"

    24. Re:TEMPEST by aliquis · · Score: 1

      And exactly how do you block the signal before the scrambler and after the descrambler in a way which can't be used without either of them?

    25. Re:TEMPEST by ThisNukes4u · · Score: 1

      You can't, but you don't need to, since most of the electromagnetic radiation that is being emitted is from the long cord between them. So as long as that information is scrambled/encrypted well enough it should be good enough protection. Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.

      --
      thisnukes4u.net
    26. Re:TEMPEST by orkysoft · · Score: 1

      People weren't very impressed by the first telephone either. Now, when they built the second telephone, however... ;-]

      --

      I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
    27. Re:TEMPEST by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Gives new meaning to the term "brown eye", I guess.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    28. Re:TEMPEST by FlyingGuy · · Score: 1

      As the parent says, it is no big news flash. I was in the navy in the 70's and the 80's.. The machines we got were basically PC-AT's but they were re-worked with shielded EVERYTHING, everything had copper mesh around it, and if is was used for any seriously classified information it was in a room with the same mesh in the wall's, ceiling, floors etc.

      Remember the movie "Enemy of the State"? The Gene Hackman character lived in an old warehouse and ALL of his electronic goodies were in a Faraday cage the size of an office.

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
    29. Re:TEMPEST by p0tat03 · · Score: 1

      Well... your data certainly isn't safe... if your coworker sets up a large antenna in his next-door office, and you painstakingly make sure that your keyboard is the only possible EM source in your office.

      Seriously, this isn't anywhere close to something that can happen in real life. In real life you'd be hooked onto DC power (oops, noise!), have a monitor (oops, noise!), have a cell phone (noise!), land line (noise!), ethernet (noise!)... need I go on? To get any intelliglbe signal out of that soup would require more skill and dedication than your keystrokes are worth. So unless you are a secret agent of some sort, you shouldn't be losing sleep over this.

    30. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but this cannot save you from some trojan that logs what you do on the Web App (and the fact you are in HTTPS doesn't save you from some JavaScript and client trojan).

      the only secure authentication is a two factor auth. with something you have like a OTP token...

    31. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was occuring even earlier. These sort of attacks were being used against diplomatic cipher machines back in the fifties!

    32. Re:TEMPEST by MilesAttacca · · Score: 1

      The MMORPG Maple Story uses this method for entering your PIN. It's highly annoying to input, personally, but apparently botting the game is big business and they have to go to these extreme measures to stop it. No, they aren't afraid someone's gonna pull a Van Eck on a user's keyboard, they're worried about the user himself. :)

      --
      98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smoke, and have sex. Put this in your sig if you like bagels.
    33. Re:TEMPEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      smart

  3. Dubious claim by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is this going to be another one of those hollow claims backed up by a viral video, like unlocking car doors with a tennis ball?

    1. Re:Dubious claim by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this going to be another one of those hollow claims backed up by a viral video, like unlocking car doors with a tennis ball?

      step 1: wrap a string around a tennis ball and a brick so they are tightly snug; I suggest to use the "1337 h4x0r knot" for extra tightness.

      step 2: throw the tennis ball-brick at the driver side car door window.

      step 3: place your hand past where the window once was and move the locking switch on the door from its locked position to its unlocked position.

      step 4: open the door.

      You forgot

      step 5: ???

      step 6: Profit!

    2. Re:Dubious claim by erayd · · Score: 0, Redundant

      step 5: ??? step 6: profit!!!

      --
      Forget world peace, bring on -1 pointless
    3. Re:Dubious claim by Kamokazi · · Score: 1

      Probably...something while technically possible, is not very feasible for practical use.

      I really just posted to comment on your sig. I think there is a worse oxymoron: Military Intelligence

      --
      As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
    4. Re:Dubious claim by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      step 1: wrap a string around a tennis ball and a brick so they are tightly snug; I suggest to use the "1337 h4x0r knot" for extra tightness.

      step 2: throw the tennis ball-brick at the driver side car door window.

      "Like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon"












      "wrapped around a large gold brick."

      --
      Squirrel!
    5. Re:Dubious claim by swestcott · · Score: 1

      how is this going to work just think about how many keyboards are in a 20 meeter area try to filter out just one and I am guessing the faster you type the harder this type of filtering would be there would be all kinds of over-lapping signals

    6. Re:Dubious claim by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes it is.

      But it may work if you've got a giant antenna pointed at the keyboard, a known keyboard, a user who types 1 character per second, and there are no other sources of EMF around, like, I don't know, a monitor or another person at another computer.

    7. Re:Dubious claim by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      One could create a filter to zero in on a specific emitter. IIUC, TFA's mechanism records a broad spectrum, and then filters through that looking for certain properties. For low-cost devices, there will probably be enough variance within a set of devices to be able to filter out surrounding systems and lock into just the one that you want.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  4. Hmm... by pzs · · Score: 3, Funny

    I might have to extend my tinfoil hat to some kind of head-mounted lead telephone box.

    1. Re:Hmm... by Tetsujin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Chief, don't you think we should use the Cone of Silence?

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  5. TEMPEST in a teapot - - - ANYONE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Hello? Is this thing on?

  6. If it only works on Wired keyboards... by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...why should I worry? I work for BoingBoing.

  7. Time for a Faraday cage? by apathy+maybe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    To determine if wired keyboards generate compromising emanations, we measured the electromagnetic radiations emitted when keys are pressed. To analyze compromising radiations, we generally use a receiver tuned on a specific frequency. However, this method may not be optimal: the signal does not contain the maximal entropy since a significant amount of information is lost.

    Our approach was to acquire the signal directly from the antenna and to work on the whole captured electromagnetic spectrum.

    Looks like a room or building size Faraday Cage (a foil hat the size of your house!) might be the only defence...

    Especially considering that you can also detect what is shown on monitors (again, by detecting the electromagnetic radiation), and so on screen "keyboards" operated with a mouse become not so useful.

    It's not clear from the article whether they have have the keyboard before hand to be able to record which key-press outputs what radiation, or if they can use this (and by that I mean one of the four) technique on any old keyboard, including ones they haven't seen before.

    Anyway, this shouldn't be too surprising to anyone, electronics emit electromagnetic radiation, which can be captured.

    --
    I wank in the shower.
    1. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Being the only house on your block not radiating all sorts of data sounds like an excellent reason for the DHS to perform a no-knock raid with a legions of SWAT teams and an armored troop carrier or two.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Which is why you move to Pennsylvania and live among the Amish. Also, your crazy hacker beard will look a little less crazy.

    3. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      I know you're not serious, or I hope you aren't, but how would they know the difference between you intentionally blocking transmissions and just not having stuff turned on?

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    4. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by deander2 · · Score: 1

      damn... and i was hoping for security on my desk AND a working cell phone in my pocket. =P

    5. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by FiveDozenWhales · · Score: 1

      Or a Faraday cage the size of a keyboard. From TFA, "We conclude that wired computer keyboards sold in the stores generate compromising emanations (mainly because of the cost pressures in the design)." E.G., these things COULD be shielded, but what fool would shell out an extra $25 for that?

    6. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Funny

      The solution to this is simple. Have at least one computer outside the cage. If you have a teenage, even better. Cause nothing would drive those eavedroppers crazy than listening in on teenage conversations:

      No way!
      4sho!
      LOLZ
      idc. let's go w bff jill

      Of course, this might be one of those cases where the solution is worse than the problem.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    7. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      I know you're not serious, or I hope you aren't, but how would they know the difference between you intentionally blocking transmissions and just not having stuff turned on?

      Probably because it's not just computers that emit electromagnetic radiation. Even the mains wiring will emit a certain amount.

    8. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by apathy+maybe · · Score: 1

      Not to mention it would probably be more expensive to shield an entire house then merely one room within that house...

      But, why is anyone monitoring what houses are radiating or not? Are there really government folks wandering around with electromagnetic radiation detection equipment?

      I know I sometimes sound paranoid (hey, they are out to get me), but that sounds crazy.

      --
      I wank in the shower.
    9. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Oh, yeah... I'll just need a monkey playing solitaire on a computer that isn't shielded all the time.

      Privacy is so damned expensive...

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    10. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because SWAT is totally raiding all those people without TV's and computers . . .

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    11. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      Thanks for advise. I guess it should work for Muslims w/ beards, like myself, too. /Once I tried a straw hat in a store.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    12. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your crazy hacker beard will look a little less crazy.

      Alan Cox has released his beard under GPL so it is now that much easier.

    13. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      That's no problem, just use two AI bots chatting with each other instead of having a teenager.

      The snoops would have to monitor for a significant time before they'd realize the difference.

      If they're choosing to monitor your house for hours, they probably have something else on you.

      --
    14. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      They need a reason to do that?

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    15. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by d3ac0n · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Looks like a room or building size Faraday Cage (a foil hat the size of your house!) might be the only defence...

      This is actually easier to do than you might imagine. My old house was essentially a Faraday Cage. You could NOT get a wireless signal more then 1 foot outside it. Why? Aluminum Siding. Add in aluminum powder tinted windows (triple layer UV and thermal glass) and the only leakage was straight up through the roof.

      So you could get an OK cell-phone signal on the second floor (2 bars), but almost nothing on the first floor. Walk out the front door, 4 bars. Same with WiFi. Full strength "g" signal anywhere inside, walk outside and the connection drops.

      My current home has asbestos siding (bleah!) that does nothing to attenuate the Wifi signal, so I actually had to encrypt my wireless for the first time ever when I moved. I can pick up my wireless signal about 2 doors away now, and it's the same wireless device I used in my old house, located in a roughly similar spot (close to the center of the house, in the basement, on a shelf near the basement rafters)

      If I could I'd re-side in Aluminum again, but the costs to re-side an asbestos tile sided house are astronomical, and many places simply won't do it.

      Regardless, if you really want to attenuate any wireless signals going into or out of your home, slap on some aluminum siding. You'll kill those pesky wireless signals, AND make your house look really nice at the same time.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    16. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, yeah... I'll just need a monkey playing solitaire on a computer that isn't shielded all the time.

      Check the cube next to yours, you might already have the equivalent.

    17. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      Good luck to them if they try spying on my typing.

      "Backspace (bsp), bsp, hith, bsp, bsp, hi theree, bsp..."

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    18. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Probably because it's not just computers that emit electromagnetic radiation. Even the mains wiring will emit a certain amount.

      So what if you just shield the room where the PC is? They'd still see emissions from your TV and other appliances but none from the PC. I'd also say let em knock down my door. If they can't compromise my encryption key then seizing my PC isn't going to be very useful.....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    19. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by "not serious"? Do you mean have I removed the Faraday cage that used to surround the inside of my home in fear that the Department of Homeland Security would send in great numbers of heavily armed men into my home? Or do you mean "not serious" in that I would have never put up a Faraday cage in first place? Or "Not Serious" in that I would be surprised if this reported in the news? Or "Not Serious" in that the DHS would not decide a US citizen did not fit a certain profile and then proceed to detain them in spectacular fashion? Or "Not Serious" in that simply not radiating is not a good enough reason for a judge to issue a no-knock warrant over the phone, in the middle of the night?

      In answer to those questions: I have not installed a Faraday cage which completely encompasses my home, nor removed one. However, I do try to keep pretty tight computer security. I would be completely *unsurprised* if tomorrow's news carried an item describing in vague detail how the DHS, or proxy, pumped a few dozen rounds in a retiree when they broke down her door in a no-knock raid. I would be absolutely astounded if the DHS had not long since singled out great numbers of residences of US citizens for extra investigation based on an incorrect "profile" of remotely measured Emissions or Emanations. I also would be pretty damned surprised if they actually caught a terrorist using these methods. I think it is far more likely that they are instead detecting a lot of common criminality with their wholesale surveillance. Which they simply alert local police of, probably by way of FBI liaison, which are then pursued with more legal law enforcement methods. I also would be completely unsurprised if judges do not already routinely issue such warrants as they do so on far less evidence already.

      And to answer your last question: They know by going into your home and looking.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    20. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by ddusza · · Score: 1, Funny

      We got them Amish here up nort in Indiana, ya. Ya know how hard it is to get a computer to keep working when the wind isn't blowing the windmill? Really hard, ya. Besides, we aren't allowed any of those electric things. It's harder to hack an abacus, now ain't it!

      --
      Don't fear the penguins
    21. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 1

      I'd say the existence of encryption is ample evidence to convince a judge to compel you to reveal your key.
      I'd also say that most enforcement agencies, which are going to participating in such a no-knock raid on a domestic terrorist, have some pretty damn interesting forensic tools designed to circumvent encryption (Preventing the computer from ever going to sleep is one common tactic employed).

      So if you are going to bother encrypting you had better brush up on forensics tools and prepared to go jail for not reveling your key (on top of whatever else they charge you with).

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    22. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      or directly use napalm instead

    23. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you're a basement dwealing weakling unable to swing an axe...

    24. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      What about installing a microcontroller in the PSU that checks the AC line frequency, and if it's not within the range of what you get at your house (there's slight variances everywhere, after all,) send +120VAC straight into every DC line?

    25. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Interesting.

      One thing I've been curious about is how effective just putting the wireless router in the basement would be --- my house is on quite a bit of a slope, but there'd still be ~10--15 feet of earth (and rocks, mostly sandstone, lots and lots of rocks) between the router and anywhere one could get a signal outside.

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    26. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 1

      I say we nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    27. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I'd say the existence of encryption is ample evidence to convince a judge to compel you to reveal your key.

      Umm, in the United States the case law so far suggests that they can't compel you to turn over the key. Even if they did compel you to turn off the key what's to stop you from adopting the Bush Administration approach of "I can't recall"?

      I'd also say that most enforcement agencies, which are going to participating in such a no-knock raid on a domestic terrorist, have some pretty damn interesting forensic tools designed to circumvent encryption (Preventing the computer from ever going to sleep is one common tactic employed).

      Well, I'm a little confused as to why you felt the need to bring up the 'T' word, but regardless, how can it be assured that the PC is on when they raid the house? If the PC isn't on then what good does having access to it do? The big concern that I've read about is a cold boot attack -- but that seems to be a moot point if the PC is already turned off. Is there some other method that can be used to attack encrypted drives that I'm not aware of?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    28. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Assuming you're holding data that would get you in significantly more legal trouble if it were revealed than if it were to remain concealed, would it not make more sense to avoid using a computer of your own altogether for anything dubious?

    29. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 1

      If you don't, the guy in the cube next to you might already have the equivalent. ;)

    30. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Pahalial · · Score: 1

      This comment being modded +5 Insightful scares me more than any other part of this discussion. The idea that simply not wanting to be easily snooped upon is legitimate probable cause and justification for any kind of police action, in the eyes of both law enforcement and the public... chills me to the bone.

      --
      Stuff.
    31. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Being the only house on your block not radiating all sorts of data sounds like an excellent reason for the DHS to perform a no-knock raid with a legions of SWAT teams and an armored troop carrier or two."

      Set up appropriate systems to radiate innocent bogus data on the first floor.
      Lining the basement with copper roof flashing (an innocent purchase) would be easy enough, though Mom may grumble about paying for it.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    32. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the roof itself. I don't have aluminum siding, but I do have an aluminum roof. I have to lean against a window to have a mobile phone conversation. I have to leave my phone on a windowsill in order for people to call me. And it doesn't just affect signal propogating in/out of the house. Signals generated within the house (like from a WiFi access point) don't travel very well. I physically wired my home after getting tired of all the dead spots.

      I imagine that if I had aluminum siding as well, the place could withstand a nuclear blast.

    33. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 1

      I'd read a lot of arguments and schemes along these lines. In honesty I have no idea if AC line frequency is a good metric to decide if the device is still at home or not. However I don't think that that is downfall with the idea (I do like it though, it's clever). Rather, it has the fault all such automated schemes: variation of AC line frequency is not a positive indicator that some TLA has broken into your home and is confiscating the device (either without your knowledge or holding you in severe duress). You neighbor's son (or you) could be plugging in their shiny new 1.21 gigawatt guitar amp... or some other 0.01% likely event. And then you come home to more or less a complete catastrophe.

      More importantly it is my assertion that by devising such strategies you will convince the goons at the DHS, of whatever TLA proxy, that you are not hiding evidence of misdemeanor criminality or failings of predominant morality which for now are entirely legal. But, more alarmingly, that you are engaged in activities which currently negate the constitution, the bill of rights, various international treaties, and hundreds of years of precedent in criminal law: Sexual deviancy involving a minor, however distantly; Plans or desire to commit an act, which by thin and bizarre legal convolutions can be construed as terrorism; A peaceful and conscientious objection to the current administration's prosecution of various occupations of dubious legality and or their treatment of people who they detained.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    34. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 1

      In all seriousness I would urge everyone to avoid engaging in criminal activities. You can get on just as well, if not better without them.

      However, The ideas of computer security are still really interesting!

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    35. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Aphoxema · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, wow, I don't know how it happened but you're both right, and I'm not even in a cube!

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    36. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Aphoxema · · Score: 2, Informative

      The + on the 120VAC is extraneous.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    37. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Deagol · · Score: 1
      We got them Amish here up nort in Indiana, ya.

      You mean there's more than corn in Indiana?!?

    38. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Aphoxema · · Score: 0

      Is there some other method that can be used to attack encrypted drives that I'm not aware of?

      Uh, duh yeah, a hammer.

      You'd think people on Slashdot would be a little more, like, knowing obvious stuff.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    39. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 1

      I know you two are probably joking... but chaff should not be considered effective

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    40. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      No, I meant 'not serious' as in you DID NOT JUST SERIOUSLY take the last donut. It was more of a threat, because now your long winded retort has landed me on your fans list.

      And in question to your answer to my last question, isn't there already something wrong if they're going into your house to check that kind if thing?

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    41. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my God, what kind of encryption was that? Has anyone tried sending it to Bruce Schneier for decryption?

    42. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Well, I was originally typing that as +12VDC, and then I realized, wait, there are some components in there that normally run on +12VDC that you also want to fry, and forgot to take out the +. ;)

    43. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Uh, duh yeah, a hammer.

      Well I guess you can break AES-256 encryption with a hammer if you really want to ;) Can you decrypt it though? ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    44. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Well, #1, I was working under the assumption that the person doing this would rather lose their machine and data accidentally than get caught with said data.

      #2, there are improvements on this idea. For one, installing a device in the distribution box that fluctuates voltage by +2 volts (well within the margin of what the PSU can handle) every 15 seconds for one second, and detecting that.

      Of course, the flaw with this plan is... while it destroys the hard drive CONTROLLER, it doesn't destroy the data on the drive at all. And, that's only if they don't follow proper forensic practice and pull the drive - then nothing happens.

      So, instead of using this to destroy the computer... use it to destroy the drive. Have the PSU's microcontroller send a pulse as long as it's getting the line voltage pulse, there's gonna be unused cables in there to send it on. Now, run that into a spare pin on the hard drive. (PATA hard drive preferable here, a lot more wires to play with.) Wire that spare pin into a microcontroller connected to a thermite charge. If the drive is powered up for 30 seconds without receiving a pulse, thermite charge lights.

    45. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bhima · · Score: 1

      I am not sure I would depend on this case too much. As I understood it the state was not required to pursue to the key to secure a conviction but rather the guy was convicted based on the testimony of the customs guards. I would expect that unless absolutely required you would not see a full court press from the state, as they would be keen to keep their capabilities (technical, legal, or otherwise) unknown. I would also point you to the criminal who used the (Seagate?) hard drive encryption and got convicted anyway (mostly of being an ass I think)

      I used the "'T'-word" because I assumed it would be under this guise some TLA would driving around snooping in this way. And the ease people get labeled as domestic terrorist these days. However, it just as easily be drug enforcement.

      As far as I can tell the main tactic has been avoiding direct attacks on encryption. Given the resources of a TLA, I'd assume that there are number of methods to determine if a computer, particularly one attached to the internet, in use. From there they simply keep it alive.

      I don't think the cold boot attack is likely to be used by domestic TLAs or local enforcement but I would not rely on such assumptions.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    46. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Jim+Hall · · Score: 1

      This is actually easier to do than you might imagine. My old house was essentially a Faraday Cage. You could NOT get a wireless signal more then 1 foot outside it. Why? Aluminum Siding. Add in aluminum powder tinted windows (triple layer UV and thermal glass) and the only leakage was straight up through the roof.

      My in-laws have a similar accidental Faraday cage around their house. Except in their case, they have stucco siding. It's the steel mesh all around the house that provides the cage.

      Just try to get a cell phone signal more than a foot from a window on the first floor. In the basement, you get nothing whatsoever.

      Their 2nd floor is another story (no pun intended.) The roof slopes quite severely, so about 1/2 the 2nd floor is actually surrounded by "roof". No steel mesh there.

    47. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by ddusza · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ya, we has them soybeans too...

      --
      Don't fear the penguins
    48. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I am not sure I would depend on this case too much. As I understood it the state was not required to pursue to the key to secure a conviction but rather the guy was convicted based on the testimony of the customs guards.

      How does that change the fact that the ruling was based on the right against self-incrimination and held that he couldn't be compelled to turn over the key? And what of the Bush defense? What are they going to do if you say you can't recall the key? I suppose they could hold you in contempt for a time but what if you honestly couldn't recall the key? My encryption key is >20 letters and I'm not sure if I could remember it if my PC was seized and I wasn't typing it in on a daily basis.

      I would also point you to the criminal who used the (Seagate?) hard drive encryption and got convicted anyway (mostly of being an ass I think)

      Do you have a link? I'm not familiar with that case.

      As far as I can tell the main tactic has been avoiding direct attacks on encryption

      That is the main tactic. Which is why I'd be much more worried about a sneak-and-peek warrant being used to install a hardware key logger than I would be by a cold boot attack or some other effort to compromise my already running system. If you are truly afraid of the Feds then you'd better be sleeping with your computer under your pillow or have a team of armed guards watching it 24/7.

      I'm not nearly that paranoid -- the main reason my hard drive is encrypted is because it has all of my financial data on it and I've had neighbors who have been burglarized. I can't stop some dimwitted criminal from breaking into my house and stealing my PC but I sure as hell can stop him from recovering my sensitive information.

      From there they simply keep it alive.

      How does keeping it alive help them if you are running a secure OS? If there is a way to bypass the authentication system of a properly configured Linux box I'm not aware of it. Hell I'm not aware of one for Windows either but I take that with a grain of salt (closed source and all that). Granted if it's running then you've probably already lost -- the aforementioned cold boot attack vector -- but I'm curious how they would go about doing it otherwise?

      I don't think the cold boot attack is likely to be used by domestic TLAs or local enforcement but I would not rely on such assumptions.

      My experience with local law enforcement leads me to think that a decoder ring from Ovaltine would be enough to beat them ;) Well, maybe not to that degree, but I had an experience a number of years ago where I was accused of a computer-related crime. It's a long story that I've told here before but what sticks out in my mind is how they never even bothered to get warrants to seize and search any of my PCs. There wasn't anything incriminating on them but I've always found it interesting that they didn't bother to at least look for evidence. They went to Grand Jury with a bunch of screen shots and a MAC address (that wasn't even mine -- not that it matters because we all know how easily those are spoofed or changed) and couldn't even get an indictment.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    49. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Who said it was legitimate in the eyes of the public? bhima seems to me to imply that it's a bad thing, not that it's legitimate.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    50. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by jep77 · · Score: 1

      I would guess that the keyboard used for the video was scoped before and the software was looking for that keyboard's particular output. I noticed that the program expected a set number or characters to be captured "trust no one" is twelve keystrokes. The program terminated after the last character he typed, which I thought was odd. If it wasn't sort of rigged to work the program would have continued listening for input until it was told to stop...

    51. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, more than you would think actually.
      No need to feel crazy for being paranoid.

      You can never be too safe.

      And if you are in the UK, even more so. (especially those TV licence people..)

    52. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      "Are there really government folks wandering around with electromagnetic radiation detection equipment?"

      Yes, I see their vans all the time. The play happy propaganda music and sell brain washing sweet treats to children as they drive around.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    53. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Ortega-Starfire · · Score: 1

      So you have an external pentium box with an unpatched version of windows xp with an unfiltered internet link. Now you look like 80% of the houses out there.

      --
      ---- Liquid was a patriot ----
    54. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever heard of a Lustron? I'll bet it would work well too.

    55. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even better: use brick-face. The first layer they put on is a heavy steel mesh which acts to hold the brick material on the house. Instant faraday cage, and can't be ripped down in spots to cause "leaks".

    56. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by HTTP+Error+403+403.9 · · Score: 1

      Well I guess you can break AES-256 encryption with a hammer if you really want to ;) Can you decrypt it though? ;)

      Yes, use the hammer on the person with the password.

      --
      I'm not a Troll, it's reverse psychology.
    57. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by denobug · · Score: 1

      Using American Teenager culture to convert extremists? Brilliant!!

    58. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Thank God someone has their head on straight here.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    59. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by GWRedDragon · · Score: 1

      That was exactly was I was thinking. The automatic termination of the program immediately made me think hoax.

    60. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, my (teenaged) conversations go:

      "What's up?"
      "Nothing really, you?"
      "Ah yeah, not much."

    61. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by pacinpm · · Score: 1

      Looks like a room or building size Faraday Cage (a foil hat the size of your house!) might be the only defence...

      Not really. You have to shield keyboard only and make it send encrypted information to computer. Much easier than shielding the house.

    62. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by uigrad_2000 · · Score: 1

      Looks like a room or building size Faraday Cage (a foil hat the size of your house!) might be the only defence...

      Sure, that would work, but it wouldn't be as effective as simply adding noise into the system.

      For starters, just have another keyboard connected to a usb hub, and press 50+ random keys per second on it. Those would all appear on the attacker's equipment, and would effectively hide your keypresses. Building a "noise creation" machine should probably be even easier.

      --
      Free unix account: freeshell.org
    63. Re:Time for a Faraday cage? by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > It's not clear from the article whether they have have the keyboard before hand
      > to be able to record which key-press outputs what radiation,

      For the initial version, they probably did, because going in they probably didn't have the experience to know what they were doing really, and knowing what's going on really helps with the debugging process.

      Ultimately, though, they could almost certainly get around the need for this with a standard known-plaintext attack and/or or statistical analysis based on letter and word frequency. So no, having an uncommon model of keyboard would not provide any real protection.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  8. Easier way to open the car... by MindKata · · Score: 5, Funny

    "like unlocking car doors with a tennis ball".

    Its much easier with a cricket ball. Just use it to break the window.

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
    1. Re:Easier way to open the car... by nacturation · · Score: 5, Funny

      Its much easier with a cricket ball. Just use it to break the window.

      That may be how the Brits do it, but using a bowling ball generally meets with smashing success.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    2. Re:Easier way to open the car... by ddusza · · Score: 4, Funny

      No wonder my car is always unlocked when I get out of the tennis club....

      --
      Don't fear the penguins
    3. Re:Easier way to open the car... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, you'll have to turn the car upside-down if you're going to use a bowling ball. Some people would find that inconvenient.

    4. Re:Easier way to open the car... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Obviously, you'll have to turn the car upside-down if you're going to use a bowling ball. Some people would find that inconvenient.

      Canadians seem to find it easy enough: they use curling stones. Maybe it's easier to flip a car on ice?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    5. Re:Easier way to open the car... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Breaking the window doesn't unlock the door.

    6. Re:Easier way to open the car... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Breaking the window doesn't unlock the door.

      But it does gain access to the interior unlocking controls.

      What it doesn't do is disengage the car alarm.

      (I haven't tried climbing in through the window to see what triggering the occupant weight sensor first does.)

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  9. all i did by Bizzeh · · Score: 0

    all i did was point a hidden camera at the keyboard.

  10. You can never have too mutch Faraday cages. by jack2000 · · Score: 0

    Simple, next gen of high sec keyboards will have metal mesh in the cable and plug, and also either be made of metal or have metal casing.

  11. Cryptonomicomics by argent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh no, we will have to learn to type code by tapping on a single key and read the results in the flickering of the hard drive light.

    When they can manage the same trick in a noisy office environment with dozens of keyboards and monitors in use, then I'll worry.

    1. Re:Cryptonomicomics by Sockatume · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On that subject, I recall that certain brands of modem lit the activity indicator by flashing it on for a zero and off for a one. The LED was quick enough to allow an attacker to read off all the data from across the room.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:Cryptonomicomics by argent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most modems back in the '80s just ran either RD, TD, or (RD|TD) through the LED. It was cheap and easy and gave you a good activity signal. Nobody cared about people sniffing the data through the LED, and really hardly anyone is ever going to be in a situation where they're even potentially exposed. And for virtually all the rest, this is hardly the low hanging fruit... if you can get close enough to read the LED, you're close enough to see what the target is doing any number of easier ways.

    3. Re:Cryptonomicomics by mikael · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or you could always get a second keyboard and a monkey. Combined together, they should generate enough random data to disguise what you are typing.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    4. Re:Cryptonomicomics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you can get close enough to read the LED, you're close enough to see what the target is doing any number of easier ways.

      Like looking at the screen over their shoulder?

    5. Re:Cryptonomicomics by jep77 · · Score: 1

      I love it! Primate-Based Emanation Disguising! (P-BED)

    6. Re:Cryptonomicomics by sshir · · Score: 1

      No, the point of it is that it's a covert channel.

    7. Re:Cryptonomicomics by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Of course, it's of more use as a novel way of spying on your flatmates than a serious security vulnerability.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    8. Re:Cryptonomicomics by argent · · Score: 1

      Peer and Kate read, "Leopold Bloom wandered through Dublin."

    9. Re:Cryptonomicomics by Suhas · · Score: 1

      ...and you just may end up with a new shakespearean comedy!

  12. Not too bad by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

    Now all you have to do is talk your target into removing all possible sources of interfering EM from their computer (like the power supply, the screen, etc.) and to pause between each character that they type.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  13. laptops only? by ikirudennis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    These videos indicate that the powersupply interferes with the signal, so they only test on laptops running on battery. Does this mean that it doesn't work on desktop computers?

    1. Re:laptops only? by rishistar · · Score: 1

      It may be the process of the battery being charged while its plugged in that inteferes with signals - it certainly can affect recording audio via a mic input in a laptop.

      --
      Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
    2. Re:laptops only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That, or the power supply provides ground, which could shield the keyboard's cable (if it has one)?

    3. Re:laptops only? by tsvk · · Score: 4, Informative

      I understood that the disconnecting of the charger was because of that the "victim" laptop computer and the "attacker" desktop computer were connected to the same electrical mains network of the building.

      By disconnecting the laptop charger it was proven that the keyboard signal was truly intercepted from over-the-air electromagnetic radiation, as the laptop was "independent" and not connected to anything. There was not any chance that the signal could have leaked or transmitted any other way.

    4. Re:laptops only? by mollymoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      These videos indicate that the powersupply interferes with the signal, so they only test on laptops running on battery. Does this mean that it doesn't work on desktop computers?

      I think they only removed the power supply and monitor because sniffing monitor and power supply emissions are known attacks. They wanted to demonstrate that it really was the keyboard they were sniffing. I guess we'll have to wait for the paper to see how well it works when the other emissions you get from a complete system are present.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    5. Re:laptops only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe they remove any an all common links (like AC power) to prevent any interferece from being propagated to the listening equipment.

    6. Re:laptops only? by citizenr · · Score: 1

      on battery AND with no screen

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    7. Re:laptops only? by anagama · · Score: 1

      Well, in that case it would have been nice if they ran the attack with a complete running setup and tried to type at least 30 wpm. After watching the videos, I had the impression that the impression that the decoding software and/or hardware was simply not sensitive enough to capture real data -- this doesn't rule out future refinement, but it makes the current demo less impressive.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    8. Re:laptops only? by bhtooefr · · Score: 0

      That's what they want you to think, except I see a ridiculously huge flaw in this that isn't addressed, and can't be until they release their full paper.

      They used a laptop.

      What do many laptops have? Wifi.

      Personally, my suspicion is they had a script running on the laptop, sending the keystrokes from the laptop to the desktop that was "intercepting" the keystrokes. Or, even worse, they just had a script set up to show those messages after given delays?

      Also, note that the time it took to walk from the second room back to the first in the second video was about the same as it took for the program to finish decoding "trust," (but not the rest of "trust no one") but "password" was fully decoded. Maybe they got sloppy?

    9. Re:laptops only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not running off the battery to prevent interference.

      They're running off the battery to remove the possibility of the keyboard signal propagating down the mains. In other words, they're showing that the signal pickup is solely due to the keyboard/computer connection and not due to a lack of filtering components on the power supply.

    10. Re:laptops only? by SparkEE · · Score: 1

      What I thought was strange was that in both videos, the the decoding program exited after decoding exactly what was typed. I would have expected it to sit there waiting for more keystrokes. Really made me think this could be nothing more than a program with a lot of sleep statements.

    11. Re:laptops only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why isn't anyone screaming "wifi!" ???

      the auto-termination can easily be explained by the listen/poll loop terminating after a period of inactivity. But still....

    12. Re:laptops only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've also noticed that my laptops are more electrically noisy when not plugged in. With my old HP, I could hear a faint high-pitched whine from the speakers whenever I moved the PS2 mouse plugged in while it was on battery. Plug into the mains, and that's gone.

    13. Re:laptops only? by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Why am I not surprised I got modded down?

      (Took off the karma bonus for this one... but I don't like posting anon...)

  14. Encryption by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 1

    Couldn't this easily be mitigated with an encrypted keyboard link?

    1. Re:Encryption by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Or just have a monkey type stuff out on another keyboard all the time.

      TsaqggaRahdfjhadfY Tafhnae4na76O aRangsdEa4636AanyhryD T4gmbjjhnozbsHyaengjasdojgboI4asbjgsx5yS YsdgbajrnlynrOrayeryreU Byaery5hbeautrAuntrauahShaheTahkapdfhAgaeiyp45RfwdgDS

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    2. Re:Encryption by fprintf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Holy smokes. Either a coincidence or you have been snooping my network, but that is exactly the beginning of my AES key...

      --
      This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    3. Re:Encryption by gerardolm · · Score: 1

      I'm not a bastard :(

    4. Re:Encryption by Aphoxema · · Score: 2, Funny

      I see you shelled out for the decoder monkey.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    5. Re:Encryption by legirons · · Score: 1

      Couldn't this easily be mitigated with an encrypted keyboard link?

      If your definition of "easy" involves persuading your PC supplier to ship with the most niche market of keyboards ever... (can you even buy DVORAK from dell, nevermind tempest-resistant?)

      And if you don't mind the keyboard only working on a particular OS (at least until encrypted-USB-HID protocols become common enough to be standardised)

    6. Re:Encryption by zxsqkty · · Score: 1

      Bastards! That's the combination of my luggage!

      --
      Caution: May contain nuts.
  15. There is always a method of attack by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

    I like this method:

    Setup a microphone (directional is preferred) and direct it at the keyboard you would like to monitor. Record the sound of the person typing their password a few times. Then send them an email and a response request. Record that sound and use it to determine the sound of each key. Because of wear, finger position, and angle of attack, each keypress sounds a little different than the rest.

    Now, thanks to the email responses, you have a sample of what the keys should sound like.

    Of course, a simple video camera is often much easier.

    --
    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    1. Re:There is always a method of attack by moranar · · Score: 1

      That assumes no typos and no editing.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea!"
      Gandhi, about Internet Security
    2. Re:There is always a method of attack by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Or you could, you know, just ask the guy his password.

      What, no good?

    3. Re:There is always a method of attack by nacturation · · Score: 1

      That assumes no typos and no editing.

      Because of the silent backspace key?

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    4. Re:There is always a method of attack by moranar · · Score: 1

      No, because you don't know which of them is backspace if you have to compare what's written to what's recorded. Or maybe I'm getting it wrong.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea!"
      Gandhi, about Internet Security
    5. Re:There is always a method of attack by nacturation · · Score: 1

      No, because you don't know which of them is backspace if you have to compare what's written to what's recorded. Or maybe I'm getting it wrong.

      It makes it a bit tougher, but it's a basic substitution cypher. Assuming you can match up any correctly-typed portion of the text with sounds, finding the parts that don't match up will allow you to determine which is the backspace. Just think about how unique the spacebar sound is. If you can even match up the number of non-spacebar keypresses with the spacebar keypresses, you've just about solved it right there and the rest is a trivial exercise.

      Of course, it's much tougher if someone is constantly using arrow keys and such to change position, but with any sufficiently long response you're likely to have more than enough source data.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    6. Re:There is always a method of attack by Neoprofin · · Score: 1

      You might be able to figure out the backspace but good luck if your target is a little scatter brained and likes to hop around sometimes. You may be able to pick up a mouse click too but you'd have no idea from sound alone where characters had just been removed or added.

    7. Re:There is always a method of attack by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like this.

      There truly is nothing new about this. Van Eck attacks are Cold-War stuff. Tempest was in IBM displayWriters, and everything after that, as well as all the PC stuff of course.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    8. Re:There is always a method of attack by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Or check the post-it note under the keyboard.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  16. Features win over Security (again). by geekmux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Instead of trying to put 72 hot keys, along with a volume knob, EQ, and 17 LEDs emitting a dizzying array of light colors, how about just a keyboard?

    Without all the extra crap, there just may be a chance to reduce the overall voltage required to drive a keyboard, and therefore reduce the eminations. Could go hand in hand with all this talk of going "Green" with PCs.

    Of course, that will never happen, because we're far too fascinated with keyboard bling. After all, feature-creep isn't a problem, it's a lifestyle, right?

    1. Re:Features win over Security (again). by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the other hand, all the extra blinkenlights would create more interference, reducing the effectiveness of this attack.

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    2. Re:Features win over Security (again). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC, current induces EMI.

      You would want a keyboard that still uses little power, but rather is powered from your 120 VAC house outlets (with chips that run at that voltage, rectified, of course!) This would reduce the current requirements for the keyboard, although spilled drinks might become just a little bit more dangerous...

    3. Re:Features win over Security (again). by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Check out the Apple Aluminium keyboard. It only has a led for Caps Lock and the multimedia keys are the same as the function keys. I don't know if it helps but the whole top is aluminium, which could shield a bit of EMI.

    4. Re:Features win over Security (again). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "IIRC, current induces EMI."

      Interesting. I had always assumed that voltage induces EMI more because AM radio stations use linear amplifiers (i.e. those which change output voltage based on input voltage) and they appear to change output strength based on the input voltage of the signal.

    5. Re:Features win over Security (again). by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      The bottom is plastic, as are the keys. Assuming the aluminium Apple keyboard they have pictured on their page isn't a red herring, I suspect that was one of the ones they attacked.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    6. Re:Features win over Security (again). by blhack · · Score: 1

      or just build a robot that punches random keys on a couple of other machines in your office/van.

      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    7. Re:Features win over Security (again). by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Of course, that will never happen, because we're far too fascinated with keyboard bling. After all, feature-creep isn't a problem, it's a lifestyle, right?

      This was a known phenomenon even with some of the earliest keyboards. There are many ways to observe what is going on at a distance that aren't just related to emission strength.

      It is all about learning the profile of a given device. Once you know the profile, it is only a matter of time before its contrasting behavior with the ambient conditions gives you a good idea what it is doing.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  17. Nothing new by thered2001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I saw this demonstrated about 10 years ago while working for a military contractor during a demonstration to increase awareness of security risks. They were able to capture video and keyboard data through a wall adjacent to the PC being monitored. (I can't elaborate on who 'they' were...but I'm sure astute readers can guess correctly.)

    --

    If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.

    1. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tempest is old as mccain

    2. Re:Nothing new by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's called van Eck phreaking, and it's been applied to monitors for a while now, but no-one's really talked about sniffing from the keyboard.

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    3. Re:Nothing new by FishAdmin · · Score: 1

      (I can't elaborate on who 'they' were...but I'm sure astute readers can guess correctly.)

      "They"...you know, "them."

      --
      Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door went nuts.
    4. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called van Eck phreaking, and it's been applied to monitors for a while now, but no-one's really talked about sniffing from the keyboard.

      audio a while back.

  18. Painfully typical by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    This certainly doesn't surprise me, I've only taken apart one keyboard in my life that appeared to be properly shielded, something I wish was more popular. I actually managed to break a PS/2 port once through a static discharge that left my finger black, and this was back when USB keyboards were a really new thing.

    Same with mice and a million USB peripherals, plastic isn't nearly enough, everything should have a proper faraday shield, yet even the most expensive stuff doesn't.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    1. Re:Painfully typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... one keyboard in my life that appeared to be properly shielded
      Which one?

    2. Re:Painfully typical by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Some ancient thing that weighed more than a... uhh... I don't got anything witty. It was heavy. Or something.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    3. Re:Painfully typical by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      The IBM Model M is ancient and heavy.

      Then again, so am I.

    4. Re:Painfully typical by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Even the Model M isn't shielded at all...

      However, the Northgate Omnikeys did have metal casings, IIRC...

    5. Re:Painfully typical by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      PS/2 is a powered port, it should be shut down before removing the plug, it wasn't designed to be hot plugged.

    6. Re:Painfully typical by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Excellent point, I'll remember to shut down my computer first next time before I accidentally touch it after walking across carpet in winter.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  19. Damn! by ale_ryu · · Score: 1

    I'll have to encrypt mentally now.

  20. Truecrypt refuses to deal with this.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    The developer of truecrypt (hard drive encryption software) has been made aware of these issues in the past and so far has refused to include any kind of graphical keyboard interface in the software. It is extremely frustrating when you have a problem like this staring you in the face and they refuse to deal with it.

    1. Re:Truecrypt refuses to deal with this.... by apathy+maybe · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and it isn't like the same issues don't come up with computer monitors...

      Not to mention, MS Windows XP (at I seem to recall earlier versions) come with an on screen keyboard. Programs > Accessories > Accessibility > On Screen Keyboard.

      So, if you use MS Windows (and TrueCrypt was written originally for MS Windows, and based on earlier code written for MS Windows), don't complain. And if you are using GNOME, I just found at least two programs available in Ubuntu repositories, I'm sure that there are plenty more.

      I wrote a program back in high school which was basically an on screen keyboard, sure you would have to copy and paste what you "wrote", but it's still there. (It wasn't hard, any programmer could do it.)

      OK, you're worried should surfers, I didn't do it, but it wouldn't be hard to obscure what is being "written", and still make it possible to copy and paste it (unlike "password" fields in HTML forms).

      So basically, quit fucking complaining and thing about other options you muppet.

      --
      I wank in the shower.
    2. Re:Truecrypt refuses to deal with this.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      could that be because every major operating system comes with an onscreen keyboard if you're paranoid enough to want to use one?

    3. Re:Truecrypt refuses to deal with this.... by dieth · · Score: 1

      Windows & Linux already have software keyboards, don't know why you would need one built into the interface.

      Windows XP&Higher: osk.exe

      Linux:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/linux/keyboard/keyboard_easy/screenkeys/on_screen_keyboard_gnome.shtml

      I also believe TrueCrypt is opensource, so if you really want an OSK in the interface, write it yourself, or pay someone else too if you are incapable.

    4. Re:Truecrypt refuses to deal with this.... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, MS Windows XP (at I seem to recall earlier versions) come with an on screen keyboard. Programs > Accessories > Accessibility > On Screen Keyboard.

      So, if you use MS Windows (and TrueCrypt was written originally for MS Windows, and based on earlier code written for MS Windows), don't complain. And if you are using GNOME, I just found at least two programs available in Ubuntu repositories, I'm sure that there are plenty more.

      None of that helps you if you are using system encryption and the truecrypt bootloader......

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:Truecrypt refuses to deal with this.... by apathy+maybe · · Score: 1

      A challenge for you then: Write an on screen keyboard in under 512 bytes. And it has to be independent of any external libraries as well.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record

      --
      I wank in the shower.
  21. Speed by asCii88 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Has anybody noticed that he types really slow? I believe it might not work correctly if many keys are pressed in a short period of time.

    1. Re:Speed by Daimanta · · Score: 1

      If it is possible to do, higher speed tapping will be just a matter of time. This is just a proof-of-concept setup.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    2. Re:Speed by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      I noticed the same thing. I'd love to see what happens if someone types a sentence at about 60wpm even.

      But I suppose what they've done is proven the concept... anything after that is simply refinement of the filtering algorithms and noise attenuation.

  22. My Model M (01DEC92) is immune by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its output is a stream of small stone tablets bearing glyphs.

  23. But did they test with a Model M? by sirwired · · Score: 4, Funny

    As everyone should know, the IBM Model M is the One True Keyboard. Surely all of the steel plating inside that thing must be good for something! If all else fails, the relentless clicking while they listen to your bugged cube or house should drive them completely insane.

    Even if it doesn't prevent snooping, you could still use the thing as a self-defense weapon when Mysterious Men From the Shadows come to capture you.

    SirWired

    1. Re:But did they test with a Model M? by thered2001 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm not so sure...I would expect that the Model M probably produces a spark-gap kind of effect which can be picked up on AM radios a block away.

      --

      If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.

    2. Re:But did they test with a Model M? by Bromskloss · · Score: 1

      If all else fails, the relentless clicking while they listen to your bugged cube or house should drive them completely insane.

      Unfortunately, that sound leaks information too, but you could use that to make your keyboard wireless. Just let your computron listen to it with a microphone!

      --
      Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
    3. Re:But did they test with a Model M? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Actually, wouldn't twisted-pair wiring defeat that? I thought that was the whole reason behind the twisting. As far as the Model M, I love mine and would never willingly give it up, but I'm pretty sure the Western Union office across town can transcribe everything I'm typing.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    4. Re:But did they test with a Model M? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but if you had a Model M, you could hunt down the spies and beat them to death with it. That thing is a hand-held WMD.

    5. Re:But did they test with a Model M? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...whether you are tuned to it or not

  24. Posters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are the motivation posters on the wall on video #2? I mean, does anybody know if they are for real or the parody ones?

    1. Re:Posters by dltaylor · · Score: 1

      I don't work for them, but I have bought a custom calendar:

      http://www.despair.com/

      In particular:

      http://www.despair.com/ambition.html

  25. MI5 & Intelligence Agencies by Manip · · Score: 2, Interesting

    MI5 have had this for years. I mean at the range talked about in the article they can also get a good picture quality from your monitor too. This problem has been known about since the 1980s and is the reason why the security services use magnetic shielding either in an entire building or just in private rooms (such as those that exist in every British Embassy internationally).

    EM leaks have no real solution at this stage except to shield like crazy. There is potential for some kind of white noise generator but different pieces of electronics would require one tuned to them and the levels required would make a blanket device expensive, or overly large.

    I wouldn't worry about people listening in to your keyclicks at home just yet. Perhaps if you work a big corp and there is money on the line. Corporate espionage is big business arguably even bigger than legitimate government work.

    1. Re:MI5 & Intelligence Agencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Longer than the 80s. I first encountered TEMPEST training in the Air Force in 1973, don't know how much before that it went.

    2. Re:MI5 & Intelligence Agencies by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      CRT monitors used to leak a lot of EM. Is it still working with LCD screens ? I doubt it

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:MI5 & Intelligence Agencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      CRT monitors used to leak a lot of EM. Is it still working with LCD screens ? I doubt it

      http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/pet2004-fpd.pdf

    4. Re:MI5 & Intelligence Agencies by pclminion · · Score: 1

      EM leaks have no real solution at this stage except to shield like crazy. There is potential for some kind of white noise generator but different pieces of electronics would require one tuned to them and the levels required would make a blanket device expensive, or overly large.

      Every emitter is also a receiver. Generating white noise sufficient to disrupt eavesdropping could potentially disrupt the device itself. I don't think that's generally a good solution even if it was possible.

    5. Re:MI5 & Intelligence Agencies by blhack · · Score: 1

      I think the implication here is that a couple of geeks did this in their office. Previously, the NSA could do it (as well as every other intelligence gather org, i'm sure), but they employ lots and lots and lots of PHDs, and have an unlimited budget.

      This IS really scary because now its mainstream.

      Think ATMs. I've never had the opportunity to take one apart, but I would be interested to find out if the mag-stripe reader and keypad are also vulnerable to this sort of attack.

      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
  26. Shenanigans? by tdc_vga · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you watch the video he sets the keyboard.eavesdropper into a listening/polling state waiting for keypress information. From there it's filtered and decoded --fine. Now the part that seemed odd to me is it exits as soon as it finds the 'e' in 'trust no one', why?

    If the eavesdropper is in a polling state it should continue looking for more keypresses, unless something there are some smoke and mirrors going on. Also, if you listen there's no termination sent --no keypresses heard on camera.

    1. Re:Shenanigans? by Seth024 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It was probably set to stop listening after a few seconds to make the demonstration easier.

    2. Re:Shenanigans? by macbuzz01 · · Score: 1

      Good catch, I wondered about that too. But then again, the point is that it can be done.

      Also, why type so slow? Does reading the signal depend on it? Would you have less detectability if a person typed faster?

    3. Re:Shenanigans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you notice how slowly and rhythmically they typed? Even the two "s" presses in "password" were done the same way. I bet if you touch-typed at 30 wpm it would fall apart since they can no longer count on the timing to tell the letters apart.

    4. Re:Shenanigans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had the decoder set only to look for a certain number of characters.

    5. Re:Shenanigans? by natx808 · · Score: 1

      i thought the same thing, why would ./decode just end after typing that phrase?

      it also appears that the laptop isn't on =)

      not that I'm saying you can't obtain information (I have a printout of the van eck phreaking files from 15 years ago heh) but this video is pretty hokey. must be european.

    6. Re:Shenanigans? by Techogeek · · Score: 1

      I'd have to call it that for this reason. 1, who is going to notice an antenna on a tripod while they are typing their "s3kr37 c0d3z" and 2, he smashed the keys so hard while he was typing I bet even a deaf person could have heard what he was typing. I do see the logic behind how it works but it did look a little suspicious to me.

    7. Re:Shenanigans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      could be his flow graph is set up to only listen for X chars, which was pre-determined.

    8. Re:Shenanigans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention testing. Judging by how slowly it processed the keystrokes, I'm sure it speeds up testing quite a bit to have it time out and start working while you are walking back from the target machine.

    9. Re:Shenanigans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now the part that seemed odd to me is it exits as soon as it finds the 'e' in 'trust no one', why?

      At the top of the screen, before it started decoding the letters, there was a list saying that it noticed and logged keystrokes. I guess that it started to decode the keystrokes after it had collected them all. So when it finished the last "e", it turned off because there were no more keystrokes that it had already collected to decode.

  27. Up to 20 meters? by fortyonejb · · Score: 1

    The question is, how realistic is it that anyone can really get anything useful doing this? In an office there are so many of us typing away that it would be a total jumble. If you lived in an apartment complex, its quite likely their would be enough external interference that even in the next apartment they couldnt pick anything up. That leaves my house, and a 20 meter radius puts you on my property, good luck setting up your equipment without me noticing you on my front lawn. It sounds neat but highly unlikely that it can be an actual problem.

    1. Re:Up to 20 meters? by fprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Think of this as a proof of concept, with additional range yet to come. To you it might not be a big deal, but to others (e.g. the tinfoil hat crowd) it is likely a very small distance in time between the current 20 meter range and a 100 yards or more. And yet to others still, it is of concern now, for example apartment blocks, condos or dormitories where you may be less than 20 meters away from several other residents.

      --
      This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    2. Re:Up to 20 meters? by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

      The question is, how realistic is it that anyone can really get anything useful doing this?

      Set up a repeater unit outside of an executive's house, then do trades on the stock market. You could hide all the electronics in a small box, and make it look like a piece of phone or telco equipment. No one would touch it for 20 years.

      The harder activity would be to disguise the trades so the SEC doesn't figure it out.

      I bet someone has already tried something like this. There are too many security agencies in the world for it not to have been tried at least once ...

    3. Re:Up to 20 meters? by rhsanborn · · Score: 1

      20m isn't too bad in an office environment for the corporate espionage that someone mentioned earlier. I also wonder if there might not be some very minor frequency shifts between different brands of keyboards and at different ranges that may allow someone to tune in on one and stay there...

    4. Re:Up to 20 meters? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      By using directional antennas and doing some signal processing they should be able to filter out the other devices.

      Analogy: you can listen to a particular person in a noisy restaurant, and it usually easier if both your ears work well.

      If they have to they could use two or more vehicles parked outside. Or just rent a room or two nearby.

      There are so many ways of snooping it isn't funny, here are some examples:

      ** Light
      Copying a screen from a CRT by the light it "smears" on a wall - CRT images are generated by an electron beam, so the smear actually is only a smear if you average it over time with your eyes. Add a telescope and you can pretty much snoop at CRT screens from quite a distance.

      Snooping data from modem and similar LEDs - LEDs can be rather bright and narrow band, so you might be able to snoop from reflections even if they're not directly visible.

      Eavesdropping on conversations/sounds in a building far away by bouncing a laser off the window (sound waves from the conversation make the window vibrate - and the vibrations are measured by the laser.

      ** Sound
      Good old fashioned dishes and microphones.
      Recreating keystrokes from the sound they make - the keys on your keyboard don't actually sound the same.

      ** EM
      The "tempest" stuff they're talking about - all those electronics give off snoopable signals.
      The wired keyboard stuff is old stuff.
      The "modern" wireless mice and keyboards make it even easier.

      ** Trash
      Collect the trash and dig through it.

      ** Bugs
      Your "office cleaner" while cleaning your keyboard could install a "keyboard plug" that captures all your keystrokes and pick it up the next day.

      So many other ways.

      --
  28. Oh well, how realistic might that be? by Niedi · · Score: 1

    I'm wondering if this is really an issue.... I mean come on, they used a damn HUGE antenna for the setup with the wall inbetween, always disconnected the psu and typed really carefully and slowly. It would be interesting to see how much you can still recover with a more realistic setup, like a faster typer, plugged in psus, some other electronic equipment in the room and an antenna that can be put in/ontop one of these neat little dark vans.

    1. Re:Oh well, how realistic might that be? by PIBM · · Score: 1

      Actually, pluging in the PSU or an LCD monitor increases the number of ways they could recover what you typed.

    2. Re:Oh well, how realistic might that be? by Niedi · · Score: 1

      Howso? I think that it would rather increase the amount of background noise, making it harder to get any usable results... Now if you had an old CRT I would agree, but I don't see how unplugging an LCD and the PSU would decrease the chances of decryption.

    3. Re:Oh well, how realistic might that be? by PIBM · · Score: 1

      They could tap on the electrical line to read any disturbance, that might give out information. For the LCD, those ugly & cheap DVI or VGA cables are often not well shielded (same as the keyboard) and there are many more parts which could emit EMI to tap onto.

  29. Maybe time for a DVORAK keyboard by thered2001 · · Score: 1

    That'll keep 'em busy! (Or at least keep the /. crowd busy debating whether it would help or not.)

    --

    If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.

    1. Re:Maybe time for a DVORAK keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wouldn't.

    2. Re:Maybe time for a DVORAK keyboard by rhsanborn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It shouldn't keep them busy for long. I haven't been able to get to the description yet, but I assume a Dvorak layout, or any other layout for that matter would look like a simple replacement cipher and wouldn't take long to crack.

    3. Re:Maybe time for a DVORAK keyboard by legirons · · Score: 1

      Does DVORAK keyboard send the same codes over its USB cable?

    4. Re:Maybe time for a DVORAK keyboard by jonadab · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Substitution ciphers are *at worst* O(n), where n is the number of distinct characters, and can usually be broken much more quickly than that with simple statistical analysis, because keys like e and the spacebar generally get hit somewhat more often than ones like ` and F6. You could go to a chording layout, I suppose, but it still wouldn't be cryptographically significant in the modern era.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  30. Thinfoil as a poor man's solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I would wrap my keyboards cable with thin foil would that solve the problem?

    Which other simple tricks could make it much more difficult to (try to) stop these type of attacks (to some level)?

    1. Re:Thinfoil as a poor man's solution? by fprintf · · Score: 1

      You can wrap your keyboard in tinfoil, or the cable or even put a tinfoil hat on your head. You can bet once it is proven effective that the government will invent new laws to make it illegal to possess tinfoil shielded computer equipment. The premise will be that such tools are "proof" of criminally minded activities. Never mind your right to privacy or your innocence until proven guilty.

      We used to have anti-radar detector laws in my State - the reasoning was that anyone who used a radar detector was defacto guilty of speeding because a radar detector serves no other legitimate purpose. Fortunately the voters had enough and the state legislators repealed the law (Connecticut) about the same time the speed limit went up to 65.

      --
      This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
  31. Apple Aluminium Keyboard by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    This thing has an aluminium top (but a plastic back), would it be safer than a 100% plastic casing keyboard?

    How about those new unibody MacBooks and MacBook Pros?

    No, I didn't RTFA.

    1. Re:Apple Aluminium Keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably not, it's most likely that the signal is coming from the cable.

      And no, I didn't RTFA either. :)

  32. Does it work.. by inotocracy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ..when you operate the computer like a normal person? You know, powered on machine, typing at a normal rate..

  33. Soft Iron in the Keyboard? by DnemoniX · · Score: 1

    Would it help if the keyboard was lined with oh I don't know...tinfoil perhaps? Or use a plastic with soft iron embedded into it? I mean I am just spit balling here, but this shouldn't be that hard to reduce emissions on.

  34. Nice theory, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we supposed to believe this on the grounds of this "proof"? There are countless ways to cheat, including:

    * The program is just a fake.
    * The laptop's wifi.
    * Some kind of transmitter in the keyboard itself.
    * Dude running into the other room and feeding the program the same data.
    * Advanced voice recognition ("I am going to type blah").
    * "decode" is the da vinci virus.

  35. Worlds slowest typist by Xandar01 · · Score: 1

    Seriously can the guy type faster than 3 words a minute? Can his decoding software only work up to a certain speed? I am betting most people enter there passwords in less than a second, not with second long pauses between each character.

    --
    Life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. -FB
  36. fishy by norpan · · Score: 1

    The video looks fishy, how does the computer program know when to stop collecting keyboard input? The video shows someone going to the other keyboard and when coming back the program has quit.

    And what about the electromagnetic interference of the whole computer running close to the antenna, and the keyboard of that computer?

    Fishy

    --
    Opinions expressed above are mine, and not my employees'.
    1. Re:fishy by geogob · · Score: 1

      I agree. I would say this looks fake or very fishy. First the oscilloscope showing stopped images of some pulses is a typical make believe setup. On the second video, after the camera comes back to the eavesdropping setup, the oscillo did not trigger on any signal and is still stopped. Granted, this doesn't prove any wrong doing.

        But the process terminating by itself immediately after decoding the last character is strange. Why would the process stop recording and start processing after the last typed letter?

      Why do the process have different names in the two video? One is "decode" and the other is "decode8characters" or something like that. From a programming standpoint, if you are having difficulties triggering the acquisition start and stop, why build different hard coded processes for different numbers of characters? If knowing when to stop recording and start decoding is a problem (and I suspect it would be), why not use parameters on standard program?

      If you are using full spectrum analysis, how can you know how many characters you received (hence, when to stop at x characters) before you decoded the acquired characters?

      Too many incongruities to convince me. I'm ready to accepted the idea this might be real, but I'll need better proof of concept than that.

  37. Butterflies by cerelib · · Score: 1

    Until they come up with a way to compromise butterflies, the only thing they will pick up from from my keyboard is: C-x M-c M-butterfly

  38. DRM! "HDCP"! by sam0737 · · Score: 1

    I bet it's the long cable that acts as an antenna? Though that doesn't explain how Laptop models are affected.

    Any how...may be we could apply HDCP-like end-to-end encryption protocol down to the keyboard, or even to each physical key...Microsoft did an ASIC for the blue-ray mouse, could they make one for each keys too? I am thinking if The FBI might want to order thousands of them...

  39. I DEMAND DRM!!! by bjackson1 · · Score: 1

    Why isn't my keyboard and monitor DRM-laden? I demand a rotating 1024 bit cipher on my keyboard!

    WHERE OH WHERE IS THE RIAA TO PROTECT ME?!

  40. Fake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find it interesting that somehow the program knows when to shut down... Especially in the second video: Before the guy with the camera gets back, the program already has finished and is returned to the command line.

  41. The thing I'll be watching for... by eimsand · · Score: 1

    Were any of these attacks against a TEMPEST certified keyboard? If that's true, then it's *extremely* noteworthy. I suspect these were against traditional keyboards, in which case this finding is only mildly interesting. Many gov't contracts have been requiring TEMPEST compliant keyboards for a while, illustrating that this has been on the radar for a while.

  42. Try using a ferrite bead. by m.dillon · · Score: 1

    Since the protocol is effectively just a low-speed digital signal... almost a square wave, the keyboard cable will radiate broad-spectrum noise around the 16 KHz band (A PS/2 keyboard clocks at around 10-16 Khz from a quick google lookup).

    That frequency might be too low for a ferrite bead to stop but its worth a try anyway. The keyboard cable is going to be too short to act as an Antenna at that frequency but because it is a square wave there are going to be a lot of harmonics. And because the base frequency is so low it could very well be that the noise generated from the computer itself would not interfere so much. So a ferrite bead might actually work.

    They could also be measuring HF generated by the keyboard processor or matrix. The keyboard matrix itself is being scanned continuously, probably in the high KHz or MHz range, and those *ARE* long wires running in a matrix. Hitting a key will shortcut portions of the scan and produce discernable frequency spikes. Since the keyboard is constantly scanning it would be possible to resample multiple times to kick down the noise floor before the user lets go of the key.

    I don't know any easy way to protect against that short of wrapping the whole keyboard in tinfoil, or typing very quickly. A keyboard designer could simply go with a 4-layer board with power and ground planes on the outside, that would put the scanning traces in a faraday cage.

    It could be that other effects are being measured as well. When you type there is always a reaction from the computer, such as burning cpu cycles to process the interrupt as well as a reaction from the application being typed into. I doubt those could be translated into actual key codes though.

    -Matt

  43. The Romanes go your whole *house*? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    Looks like a room or building size Faraday Cage (a foil hat the size of your house!) might be the only defence...

    Would it be feasible and useful to shield only the keyboard case and wire? If it isn't useful by itself, could it be a necessary part of a bigger useful prevention measure?

  44. Strange program.... by sunderland56 · · Score: 2

    Isn't it odd how the program knows ahead of time how many keys you are going to type, and conveniently exits after decoding exactly that many?

    Sure - it *could* have an exit condition where it quits if it hasn't seen a keystroke in n seconds. But, on the second video, it doesn't time out while the camera goes to the other room - but it does time out while the camera comes back. And besides - who would create their program that way? Just have it decode anything received in an infinite loop - far easier to use.

    1. Re:Strange program.... by isyc · · Score: 1

      So I wasn;t the only one that was thinking that. For us sceptics theres a few too many things that are a little vague for some serious consideration. I'd like to see the results with a desktop pc and monitor sat next to the keyboard emitting their interferance. That demonstration looks a little too sterile to prove that it is a practical attack against a standard machine. I'm not saying that its not possible, but cleaning the signal with the rest of the interference won't be as simple as grabbing the EM rad. and converting it back to a single ascii value - particularly on the cheap. When the van with the blacked out windows decides to spend a few days parked up outside my house, I may consider taking a few shielding precautions. Until then, its hardly an attack I shall fear.

    2. Re:Strange program.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus the laptops are closed; most PC laptops will not even provide power for the keyboard if they are clam shelled.
      Also I did not see a numlock light in either of the two videos.

    3. Re:Strange program.... by timothyb89 · · Score: 1

      Notice at 00:24 in the second video- where the program run is named "decode8char". The decoded word was "password", which was 8 characters long.
      Its possible that they needed it to stop after n characters (possibly to disable the antenna in some way?), where ctrl+c would just stop the program. Also, I would imagine decoding the characters would take a fair amount of time- there can be a LOT of noise to sift through.

    4. Re:Strange program.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you look more closely, you will see that there are in fact two loops involved in that program. The first one is responsible for the data acquisition (and this is presumably the one that exits when there isn't a keystroke in n ms), the second one is responsible for the filtering/decoding of the data.

      On the first video you can clearly see that mechanism with : keypress n acquired, then you see that a total of 12 traces were acquired, then you see that 1250000 points acquired from the source. Only then does the filtering/decoding occur.

  45. Does it work backwards? by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 1

    Capturing emissions is one thing and only half the battle. An attacker would have valuable knowledge, but still requires a vector to use it. Since they are 1-20m away, physical access seems likely, but then they really didn't need to sniff KBs to break into a system, did they?

    How about creating some 'emissions' ? Maybe even creating some when no one is looking? No IP stack to trace, no logs to reveal. Now that would be much more elegant.

  46. pre-2001 keyboards by theodicey · · Score: 1

    11 different wired keyboard models bought between 2001 and 2008

    I'm assuming my IBM Model M is safe, then...security through obscurity is your best friend.

  47. Encryption.. by Tmack · · Score: 1
    I use a wireless keyboard (Logitech s510). Sure, I may be broadcasting every key I type, but the keyboard encrypts the signal (via software on the comp, so not when I use it with my mac). To sync it with the software on the computer that it talks through, you do a few special key chords and then enter the encryption key as it tells you (shared secret). Not sure how strong this really is, but probably makes it a little more difficult than sniffing the raw USB/PS2 traffic (unless they can infer directly from the keypad controller chip before it goes to the encryptor).

    Tm

    --
    Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
  48. IBM Model M? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure my Model M is transmitting kilowatt-range signals but maybe the cast-iron chassis absorbs them...?

    --
    No sig today...
  49. Same Codes? by dunc78 · · Score: 1

    Does a computer need to know whether or not you are using a Dvorak layout or not or are the codes sent to the computer the same? Seems like if they have the same keys, then they could send the same codes, and therefore the physical layout of the buttons would be irrelevant. If this is the case, you wouldn't even need a replacement cipher. Seems to me that it would be like saying you need a replacement cipher for an ergonomic keyboard, but again, don't know if you need a special interpreter for a Dvork keyboard.

    1. Re:Same Codes? by rhsanborn · · Score: 1

      I'm not an OS programmer, so someone in that capacity will have to chime in with a definitive answer. But I'll throw out a guess that in general a keyboard would send the same signal based on position of the key and would let the OS handle the translation of that location to a specific letter/function.

  50. Asbestos Siding by dunc78 · · Score: 1

    My parents just had their house with asbestos siding resided and the cost wasn't any more expensive than any other house. I believe what was done for theirs is just put the new siding over top of the existing siding with some foam board in between. The more expensive part would probably be finding aluminum siding... do they even make it anymore? Figure vinyl siding has all but eliminated aluminum.

  51. Roboform to the rescue! by TavisJohn · · Score: 1

    No keystrokes, it auto fills PW's! And can be run from a USB flashdrive. Problem Solved.

  52. use a Phantom Keystroker by Satanicolas · · Score: 1

    use this : Phantom Keystroker
    wire the +5 and gnd signal and put a long wire on the data+ pin
    this should keep them busy for a while

  53. Forget the EM... by florescent_beige · · Score: 1

    All you need to do (apparently) is listen to the clicks:

    http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/13/0238204

    --
    Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
  54. Good timing.. by cheros · · Score: 1

    I've spent the last month eradicating everything which transmits other than my mobiles. No more wireless keyboards & mice, bye bye WiFi - back to good old cable. Oh, and no more ethernet over power either. that was a temp measure to sort out a problem but I stopped that when I could plug in in the basement - whilst I live on the 3rd floor..

    The main advantage so far is that everything just works. No WiFi collisions, no keyboards and mice to discover (and you can use the cable to find the mouse under a heap of paper :-), no piles of batteries to swap - nice.

    Worth the effort..

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  55. Not shenanigans. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the number of keys to decode is an argument to the program. It'll stop after the Nth key.

    The reason for this is because the capturing process is so intensive (I assume they are grabbing the full 32MBytes/sec that the USRP is capable of) that they don't want to run the decoding in parallel, so they capture (then decode) a fixed number of keys.

  56. .. and then he woke up .. by cheros · · Score: 1

    I obviously hit my least creative time - hitting Submit too early. Caffeine! More!

    Anyway, I'm not too worried about this new threat yet - at present it involves a lot of specialist kit and there are still enough people downloading spyware to make this too much effort for little return.

    I do, however, wonder what anyone at home can actually do. Would a cable ferrite dampen enough emissions or does one need to go into full Tempest mode?

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  57. Typing Volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and to be honest, who apart from ham fisted retards types like the guy in the video did.

    Would that increase the signal strength emitted from the keyboard allowing it to be snooped easier?

    If he typed in a normal fashion would the signal be any less detectable?

  58. You're kidding right? by Red_Chaos1 · · Score: 1

    Seriously, get back to me when you can do this accurately without removing power sources and other standard bits of equipment which add to the background EMI. It is one thing to detect keystrokes from a keyboard hooked up to a laptop using a battery (IE the most ideal conditions for producing the result you want), and another to detect those keystrokes with a tower and requisite LCD(s)/CRT(s) before it (dealing with real life factors and interference). Not saying it would be impossible to do, but this kind of comes off as fear mongering to me. "Look what we can do under the perfect conditions!" As if perfect conditions are found everywhere. I'm also curious about the slow and heavy keystrokes used to type things out. Who types out at 1 character per 2 seconds, with the stroke of a hammer? I'm not a touch typist, and I type between 50 and 60 wpm. Could that program fetch my keystrokes amidst the noise of my 2 CRTs and my PC?

  59. I call BULLSH** by n9pkl · · Score: 1

    5 minutes of bash scripting and i have exact replicas of the BS scripts they ran, including matching the timing of the first one that shows "trust no one". What is scary is that there seem to be many that actually thought this was a real demo. Two different bash scripts, both have different "captured text", and oddly both have the same 1250000 points acquired from source 'CH2'. Well at least they got their 15 minutes of fame.

  60. Secure Keyboards by Blowfishie · · Score: 1
    The keyboards in the demo use the PS/2 protocol - a very simple serial protocol which should be a doddle to decode. Notice the large(ish) pause between each keystroke in the demo? That's to give the oscilloscope time to trigger and dump the waveform to the PC. USB keyboards would be harder to crack because you've got to decode the USB protocol and filter out the chatter - triggering on just the keystrokes would be tricky.

    In 1994, I worked for a company called 'Keycorp' who made keyboards for banks and other POS equipment.

    Among their products were the full-size K32S and the smaller K34S. These were secure keyboards which continually pulsed the keyswitch matrix in a random way and continually communicated with the host PC in an encrypted way. It wasn't possible to trigger on a keystoke because you couldn't tell them apart from the random noise.

    The point is that even in 1994, people knew that keyboards could be tapped or wirelessly snooped. It's a shame that you can't buy those keyboards - they had real keyswitches, too!

  61. hoax? by Uzik2 · · Score: 1

    I notice the decoder program exited by itself. How did it know when to exit?
    I think it's a rigged demo to yank people's chains.

    --
    -- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
  62. What I use for security at work by Dripdry · · Score: 1

    What I use at our home office is a token. I just press a little button on it and I use the password (which is good for about 30 seconds) that pops up on the screen. Granted, i connect to work through a vpn, but having the token makes for a new password every time I log in.

    Of course there are other passwords that are static, but does anyone know whether this would be a better solution, having one-time-use passwords more often? Probably much more expensinve on a number of levels.

    --
    -