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Magnetic Levitating Trains Get Go-Ahead In Japan
An anonymous reader writes "They've been on the drawing board for 40 years but the politicos have finally approved routes for the 500kph maglev trains to replace bullet trains." I wonder if they'll let me test out maglev rollerblades on the track.
So maybe you forgot to mention the jet pack? Or you plan on lighting your farts?
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Rather astonishingly for anyone used to most Western trains, the Japanese technology has been in the pipeline since the 1960s, with a major publically viewable 20km test track to the west of Tokyo since 1997.
Still, we mustn't get too excited - the Japanese say they won't be ready to put a maglev train into service at those speeds until 2025 at the earliest and that's at a cost of around ¥5 trillion ($50 billion).
That acclaimed members-only dating site seems much more promising than some route plans.
leave it to the japanese to set the bar.
500kmh eh? wouldn't that be more useful in places with HUGE distances to trek, like, canada or usa, or the russian frontier? haha.
i'm sure we westerners will steal the technology when it become cheap enough to implement. it's gonna be a looong while.
This sort of project makes a lot of sense in a place like Japan where there are a few places with very dense population separated by rural areas.
America is one of very few places in the world with sprawling suburbs that make transportation projects like this unfeasible. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but it will be exponentially more difficult than for us than for a country like Japan, or even most Eastern European countries.
Anyone know how the energy usage per passenger compares with a large jet?
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
Our university has had this technology on our campus for almost 10 years now. If you're wondering how it works check out Dr Lawrence Weinstein's page on maglevs. Our current problem is vibration which makes riding at any speed intolerable. AEN
You were able to take out 3 letters from Magnetic but you got Levitating right...?
About seven years ago I would have thought this was the epoch of cool. Now I think it's cool, but not even in the top 100 of cool civics works projects. Once I started riding my bike to work fast doesn't impress me like it once did. On the other hand Copenhagen has redid it's infrastructure to have protected bike lanes all over the city and residential districts are close to work. Now that's cool.
We are the Borg...
Anyone else read that as "Magic Levitating Trains" ?
Not really. Though now you reminded me of Hogwarts Express.
To make it worse, I had to concentrate so I wouldn't type "Hogswatch Express", which would have been pretty embarr... oh, never mind.
Ignore this signature. By order.
Well, to most people, they would be Magic Levitating Trains...
http://truckbearingkibble.com/comic/2008/09/22/doctor-anachronismus/
Freudian DiscWorld slips are more embarrassing than reading Harry Potter?
I like both, but DiscWorld definitely has more geek-chic.
which is totally what she said
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook. And, by gum, it put them on the map.
I didn't think the Japanese could do anything to make the bullet trains (Shinkansen) any more awesome. Those things are fun to ride. Smoother than France's TGV.
Thanks, no really - I wanted my milk to come out my nose
Never let a mediocre career stand in the way of a good time
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
What are you going to mistake 'Levitating' with?
That's all I can think of.
Was that supposed to be funny? Do you really want to travel 500kph on rollerblades? If they're "maglev", can they still be called "rollerblades"? Why do people post interesting articles and then follow it up with a f*cktard-ish comment like that?
Well at least their trains will go faster than their server!
Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
Those are really hard to kill.
Anyone else read that as "Magic Levitating Trains" ?
I read that as "Magnetic Leviatans"... whatever that means.
And I hate those stupid blog stories anyway.
Here's a real article with actual information:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20081022a1.html
Let my new 7-digit UID be a lesson to all - write down your passwords.
Well, looks like Transport Tycoon Deluxe is a few years late in its estimates, strangely. I guess that makes up for SimCity 2000 being (apparently) more than a few years early with microwave power.
Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
Or the poor woman might have to go on another shopping spree, causing McCain to pull his ad buys from yet another state.
I want to shoot the messenger!
"...approved routes for the 500kph maglev trains..."
/. seems to eat it when I use it)
What the hell kind of unit is kph? kilos per hour? What is that supposed to mean? I appreciate trying to use SI units, but this is just silly. How hard is it to do km h[sup]-1[/sup]?
(obviously make the [sup] bit an HTML tag.
we have a ballot measure this November to borrow $10 billion dollars (and receive matching amounts from fed) to build a bullet train line half a century after the Japanese did it. According to the planners, maglev was rejected because there are no large-scale deployments. Why do we never get to leapfrog technology in the US?
Not only of the passengers, train, and endpoints/stations, but now you have to protect the entire track too. All it takes is some terrorist group with RPGs going around blowing up sections of track, causing train derailments.
Great, it finally looks like we might start catching up to where the Japanese were 40 years ago, and now they have to go and make the jump to MagLev.
Yeah, I'm voting for Prop 1A - been following it since '97 or so (the proposition was originally supposed to appear back in 2000 or so, but they keep pushing it back). Expensive, and I doubt it will get the ridership they are projecting until a lot of additional work has gone into local transit in the destination cities, but I'm hopeful that it will kick-start our state and local governments into looking at options besides "build more roads".
500 kph(km/h) = 310.685596 mph
I wanted my milk to come out my nose
Milk out of nose? Okay...
NOSE
Change N to P: POSE
Change S to L: POLE
Change P to M: MOLE
Change O to I: MILE
Change E to K: MILK
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
The Transrapid technology is still ahead - it already has a running commercial system in Shanghai, China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transrapid
Anyone else read that as "Magic Levitating Trains" ?
Glad i'm not the only one going crazy and read it that way. Is it the weekend yet?
I've only heard of it moving, not actually winessed the act. And it's outside my window...
Deaths and injuries from train derailments due to poor maintenance and simple human error vastly outnumber deaths and injuries due to terrorists.
In fact I'd go so far as to say, to the best of my knowledge, the number of deaths and injuries due to terrorist attacks on trains in the United States is, ummm, zero.
And that's with virtually no security at all.
... would be only 250 kph with zero wait, nonstop direct. The huge expense (and questionable success... see what happened at ODU) of maglev would not be necessary.
To do that, you have a main line, and then side branches with stations. On the side branches, people get on, and an engineer takes them out onto the main line in front of the train. The trains dock (basically at full speed), and lock together.
Meanwhile, the back unit drops off the back, to proceed to the next station. Trains could go through, basically every half hour, and all rides would be one way, nonstop, direct at 250 kph (150 mph).
When you get on the train, you slide your ticket through a reader, and are instructed which car to proceed to. Additional color coding can also help.
That's for Japan, which would use a basically linear system.
It's slightly more complicated for continental countries, requiring the main trains to travel in circuits -- but basically the same.
With electric propulsion, and today's computers, GPS, and measurement, the system shouldn't be all that difficult.
You end up with less wait than a nonstop flight, much cheaper transport, a lower carbon footprint, and comfortable travel.
Add into that the possibilities for ordering meals and having them delivered piping hot, and it would replace most of your short-hop air travel. Now use the meals to make the tickets significantly cheaper the way Vanderbilt did on his NJ-NYC ferry, and you'd have a huge commercial success.
That's not to say that one wouldn't need to design in certain protections, and that there wouldn't be hurdles to overcome, but the design would far outperform a 500 mph train that travels twice a day, at costs close to that of airfare.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
I know we post on slashdot but at least a couple of us can do the conversion...
Wow. I did maglev trains as a science fair project in 1982. I predicted they would reach speeds of 400kph and radically alter the real estate markets.
I almost killed myself making one seriously intense transformer while making a metre long magnet from flat bar and plugging it into the wall. Pop! A 12v car battery was the better solution.
It's about time!
MySQL ERROR:
Error Number: 2013
Description: Lost connection to MySQL server during query
Query: SELECT field_id, field_name FROM exp_category_fields WHERE site_id IN ('1')
Muggle spotted!
Discworld has geek chicks in it?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Japan is becoming a nation of old people because they embraced zero-population growth theory while taking advantage of technology that keeps people around longer.
Can the old Japanese people handle the ride on a train that fast? Perhaps the maglev trains will be good for shuttling the geriatric care droids around.
LOTR was one of the most boring books I have ever read. I didn't even reach the third book, I stopped about 20 pages from the end of the second. It's one of the few books where I consider the movie to be better (despite not being a fan of the movies either). I hope they don't screw up the Hobbit anyway, which I have always enjoyed. All fantasy stories these days could be referred to as a poor man's Tolkien, if you're going to think of things that way.
The Harry Potter books are much better than the movies. I'm glad I read the first 4 before the first movie was out, otherwise I probably would have a low opinion of the whole thing too. The last movie was particularly poorly directed I thought.
which is totally what she said
You can do it in fewer steps.
Change S to L: NOLE (means "head"; also a municipality in Italy).
Change N to M: MOLE
Change O to I: MILE
Change E to K: MILK
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
It's not the flying car I wanted but this will have to do for now.
How hard is it to do km h[sup]-1[/sup]?
/. seems to eat it when I use it)
(obviously make the [sup] bit an HTML tag.
It appears you answered your own question.
You forgot "at taxpayer expense".
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Is it safe to bring my laptop or any magnetic media storage device?
But... the future refused to change.
I used to ride on SkyTrain in Vancouver BC, which is maglev, but only enough to provide propulsion, not a float cushion.
Is the lift and reduced friction worth the extra energy to actually levitate it?
And, if we put the new invisibility cloaks on these ... won't they kill stray cows and small boys and girls trying to flatten pennies on the tracks?
(meanwhile in the US, we get zilch)
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
America is one of very few places in the world with sprawling suburbs that make transportation projects like this unfeasible. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but it will be exponentially more difficult than for us than for a country like Japan, or even most Eastern European countries.
The 'exponentially more difficult' part is why we shouldn't try to use rail to solve transportation problems. We're just too spread out. Rail only connects a very narrow corridor of people, and moreover, fixes their location indefinitely. If cities re-configure, the rail can't be reconfigured without lots of money.
If, on the other hand, we reconfigured cars so that they were capable of forming dynamic trains, we could get a lot of the benefit of trains without the drawbacks. For instance, trains move lots of vehicles more cheaply than a single vehicle because the locomotive bears the cost of pushing air out of the way. That not inconsiderable expense rises exponentially with speed. In a train, it's spread out over the vehicles following the locomotive but in a car, the single car bears the entire expense.
If cars drafted behind each other, they could share that savings that trains have. For that to work, it would require the cars to be able to communicate between themselves to sort out common destinations and speeds.
In practice, you'd jump on the highway per normal and your car would start querying other cars how far down the road they're going. When it found another car that was headed the same way for more than a mile or so, they'd sort out who would be lead car and who would draft and arrange themselves accordingly. The person in the lead car would continue to drive, but all the cars trailing him would be tucked in within an inch or two of each other. Their car's computers would be telegraphing to each other what the lead car was doing in terms of accelerating/decelerating so that they would do the same at the same time. When someone's destination exit arrived, the car would telegraph to the following cars that it was peeling off and the other cars would momentarily disconnect while the car pulled out of the train and then the remaining cars would re-connect. In the case of the leader, second car up would become the leader. Tail car peeling off wouldn't affect the train at all.
For a car to be allowed to join a train, it would have to carry a digitally signed certificate saying when the last time it was checked out for safety so members of the train would be confident that one of the cars wouldn't fall apart while they're within inches of it and that it was able to stop itself within a standard distance. If you didn't want to join a train, or you joined a train that made you uncomfortable for some reason, you'd turn off the feature and just drive yourself. But if you're a commuter, letting someone else drive the same route day after day, has a lot of appeal. A common commute of 20 miles would give you 20 minutes to yourself to do whatever while someone else drove.
With reaction times removed and cars bunched up within inches of each other, highways can carry more cars at higher speeds. Currently, we slow down when the highways get congested because we have to account for reaction times to propagate down the road. With the cars handling reaction time issues, they can speed up quite a bit.
Add a little intelligence to our cars and suddenly our highways become much greener.
Cherry Littlebottom and several of Vetinari's female friends should qualify.
Regular commuter trains are just as good a target, and instead of fancy high-tech attacks you can dump piles of rock or logs on the tracks to derail them. (I think one of the US militia-wannabee groups did that once in the 90s, but it's really rare.)
The real problem has been that maglev trains are fabulously expensive, and the couple of them that have been deployed around the world are typically showpiece airport people-movers. While the US probably could have built one in the late 1990s boom when there was free tax money and venture capital falling from the sky, but now that Bush has added about $5T to the Federal debt and the Crisis is costing us another $1-2T, we won't be able to afford that for a while, even if Obama does get elected.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Chic and chicks are different but I wouldn't worry about it as neither concept are relevant.
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
I wonder if they'll let me test out maglev rollerblades on the track.
If you keep cracking these jokes, and it comes down to money, we'll chip in.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Besides the fact that LOTR is a set of three books, boring is completely perceptual. Tolkien wrote as though he were a storyteller, speaking to his audience. His target audience was not you, rather adults with a higher reading level in a time where attention to detail was well-regarded and the story-teller style was somewhat popular. Besides this, one can get a very strong insight into how Tolkien felt about property from his traditionalist standpoint.
The Hobbit was written for children - more specifically, his kids. It has a much lower reading level, slightly above the Harry Potter books.
"Little is much when little you need."
40 years after they can use it because politicos already got paid enough... If weren't because of intrusive governments we could have got better technologies a lot time ago...
ghostbar page.
oh sure, -1 just cuz you didn't get the reference..... ah well, thats what I get for posting before coffee
Sorry, neither obscure Shakespearian words nor proper nouns are allowed.
Or just dyslexically transform "levitating" into "lactating".
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
"They've been on the drawing board for 40 years"
And how on earth did they not get erased by the over-zealous janitor?
the 500kph maglev trains to replace bullet trains
The maglev trains will NOT replace the bullet trains; they will take an alternative route between Tokyo and Nagoya, which will increase the bandwidth between the two cities. The current route is very close to being saturated with bullet trains.
Actually, jetlineners glide just fine, they have big long wings and a very low drag streamlined shape. LD ratio (= lift/drag ratio = roughly the same as glide ratio) of a Boeing 747 is about 17. That translates to gliding about 110 miles from an initial altitude of 35,000 feet with no engines. Not as good as a modern sailplane (LD > 50) but a lot better than our most expensive and famous glider, the Space Shuttle which has an LD of about 4.5. For a truly amazing example google "Gimli Glider"
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
I'm currently in the 2nd week of my 2 week vacation in Germany. I've gone 300 kph on a conventional train powered by electricity from overhead power lines (ala SanFran Trolly lines). In fact, the only lines I've ridden on that weren't electric were "the last mile", and they were diesel electric (a middle diesel generator providing power for adjoining electric trains). Wonderful system. Never want for a car (maybe a bicycle though).
The US needs to start building high-speed rail between cities and funding those rail systems at the same (or higher!!!!) levels then they currently fund the interstate system. If so, maybe in 20 years we'll have a public transportation system that matches Germany today.
Pissed that I have to return to the congestion and pollution in American cities in a couple days...
Or you know familiar to anyone posting here.
Cherry Littlebottom? Sounds like the sluttier sister of Strawberry Shortcake.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Besides the fact that LOTR is a set of three books
This is obviously some strange usage of the word 'fact' that I wasn't previously aware of. It is a set of six books in three volumes.
not to be confused with the other MLT.. Mutton lettuce and tomato. Especially when the mutton is real nice, and the tomato is fresh...
- Mike
Once you've lost your temper, you've lost the argument - Me
not for Gnome 2.22.2
On the flip side of that, one would need MASSIVE bridges to cover many of the dips and rivers in Quebec and Ontario.... It is just all around cheaper to fly over it all.
Google for "rail cost per mile". You're talking tens of millions per mile. Of course it's cheaper to fly.
Deleted
Yes, in a technical sense, there are three volumes of six "books", but, as for almost the entire history of the printing of the tale, these six books were printed in three volumes, there are effectively three books. In case you care, Tolkien himself called it a trilogy.
English speakers should note that when a volume is bound for the purpose of distribution, it is called a book.
book: a set of written, printed, or blank sheets bound together into a volume (m-w)
"Little is much when little you need."
Cuugh, it's more then 3 books bound into three covers.
The publishers at the time felt each book was too short.
The reading elvel is the same, but the harry potter books are more intense, appeal to what a child experiences, and have more action.
I just finished readng 'The Hobbit' to my son, and there are some pretty long and non relevant parts in 'The Hobbit'. We find out a lot about Bilbo
s family we dont need to know, the same thing with LOTRs.
Is knowing Lobelia stole silverware any way relevant to the books?
I mean, giving someone who stole your silverware a parting gift of silverware is funny, but only if you have a connection with the character.
I enjoyed the books, but 'The expected party' is not relevant until the last few pages.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
So whats an eBook?
In the process of typing up a scathing post telling you exactly why you are wrong, filled with insult and facts that would cut you to the quick...I realized that you are correct, and that I am wr..wr... well less correct!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Peak oil is here to stay. Flying will soon become just for the rich as fuel prices rise. Mag Levs on the other hand will run on whatever kind of source you care to use, and it could be green from solar and wind. The buses in Calgary AB run on wind power now. These giant projects would produce a boom in tourism, travel, commuting, transportation, shipping, and more. Building them would create not just jobs and wealth but new technologies. And it just might be the kind of dream that people could get behind. Are you listening Obama? Can you hear me Mr. Harper?
In about one week, my gaming group will hate you.
...MLT.. Mutton lettuce and tomato. Especially when the mutton is real nice, and the tomato is fresh...
MLT.. Mutton lettuce and tomato. Especially when the mutton is real LEAN, and the tomato is fresh...
There, fixed that for you, AND sentence you to watch "Princess Bride" 2 more times...
Impetuous! Homeric!
doh!
at least I know someone got my reference!
- Mike
Once you've lost your temper, you've lost the argument - Me
You were able to take out 3 letters from Magnetic but you got Levitating right...?
It was a net loss.
Your courageous and selfless spelling corrections have made me a better person.
> Anyone else read that as "Magic Levitating Trains" ?
no
So what would one do with a magic lactating train?
lol let me know how it turns out
Maglev? That's so 20th century. Wake me up when they're building a vactrain across the Pacific.
Getting 'lactating' from 'levitating' would fall under the "hearing what you want to hear" department, not dyslexia.
"So what would one do with a magic lactating train?"
I don't know.
But I DO know there are probably pictures on the internet!
I DON'T wanna know, so I ain't gonna Google it!
The U.S. really needs an English to Wisdom dictionary.
Liability. It is the problem that will kill any idea that moves liability from the driver to anything else. A fully automated machine? It's the company that makes the machine. In the train scenario, it's the lead driver.
I'd prefer that the vehicles automatically follow, and closely, however I want better roads. We need to add track-like features to our roads for two reasons:
1: Gives automated vehicles a chance and being able to stay in the lane.
2: Gives better stopping performance.
A regular asphalt/concrete road greatly limits how fast a car can stop. We need some kind of a track that will allow us to lower our stopping distance. So many accidents would be avoidable with a decent way to stop quickly (3g-4g deceleration. Previously I'd thought that sucker cars might be the way to go, however those tend to throw rocks around and would have difficulties with our pothole filled roads.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
We have loads of places for maglevs. We just do not have loads of places for EXPENSIVE maglevs. The GA's approach is a fraction of the price. In fact, the GA may actually be cheaper than putting in more highways in a number of places.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
How about long-distance train systems with railcars where I can drive my car up on and park (similar to the ferry system in the puget sound area of seattle), then get off and walk into the passanger area. That way I could train from seattle to los angeles for X amount of dollars and still have my car available to drive around without having to rent.
It would be cheap, fast, and convenient. Especially for us long-distance vacation loving americans.
What are you going to mistake 'Levitating' with?
That's all I can think of.
Magic Lactating Trains FTW!
Shit happens and it's usually caused by assholes
but by 2025 ... the French/European TGV "traditional" train on wheels will probably travel at the same speed.
If I left a car floating on top of a pair of very strong opposing "permanent" magnets (made of the kind of stuff driving tiny headphones or those potent little refrigerator door magnets, but large enough to float a car with its wheels off), how long would they stay pushed apart? After some years or decades, would the magnetic force on each magnet eventually force the magnets back to a disorganized magnetic domains state, and let the magnets to lose repulsive force, so they eventually didn't push apart at all, and collapsed?
Or are these magnets really "permanent"?
--
make install -not war
Hello America.. it's Kilo meters per hour. This and the original article seem to assume the unit is meters, by specifying Kilo only. Why levitate on a speedy train if you do not even know the basics for measuring your speed?
I don't mean to be a dick but to our UK/North American friends: it's called km/h (kilos per hour doesn't make sense).
I am the lawn!
When I was reading up on LOTR on wikipedia it actually said that Tolkien wrote is as one book, but split it into 3 parts because of the war going on, maybe people at the time had less to spend on buying books, or making books.
I perhaps would be able to get through LOTR better these days as I have better spacial awareness and geographical knowledge than when I first tried to read it, but the idea still doesn't entrall me. There are hundreds of other books that I'd rather read or even re-read first.
which is totally what she said
Though she does qualify as a geek (CSI dwarf), her name is Cheery, later modified to Cheri.
Ignore this signature. By order.
Kind of.
Then again, so does Harry Potter. Not just Hermione, but all the Ravenclaw girls as well.
Ignore this signature. By order.
I had no idea jetliners could glide at all - for (literally) decades I figured they dropped like rocks.
Good to know this isn't so.
best to all who set me straight on this.
Rs
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
eBook - has its own definition now, sadly.
You would think that, by combining the two words 'electronic' and 'book' one would be able to safely figure out what an e-book is.
Unfortunately, the idea that comes across when one says that is something like an electronic tablet via which you can read a book.
It is too bad that those puissant word-makers seem to be able to control even what we say. They should be called oBooks or even iBooks (Apple would have a fit though). Oh well, next time the Academy calls me for word acceptance, I will disallow bastardizations like that!
Ship it!
"Little is much when little you need."
When life gives you magic lactating trains, make magic milkshakes.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Anyone else read that as "Magic Levitating Trains" ?
I was thinking Magic Bus myself.
I WANT IT, I WANT IT, I WANT IT, I WANT IT!
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.