Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Pushes Windows To Battle Linux In Africa
ThousandStars writes "According to the Wall Street Journal, Microsoft has been making a concerted effort to promote Windows in Africa, pushing Windows over Linux in very poor countries that haven't been locked into a single operating system. From the article: 'To that end, it has established a presence in 13 countries, donated Windows for thousands of school computers, and funded programs for entrepreneurs and the young. It also has used aggressive business tactics, some aimed at its biggest threat in the region: Linux ...'"
Linux is like the electric car, not a chance and only in a few places..
The first hit is always free.
Is it possible to read the entire story without subscribing to the Wall Street Journal? How am I supposed to RTFA if I don't have a subscription?
Why is this thus? What is the reason for this thusness?
They didn't say they were running Windows.
It's Microsoft, nobody expects you to RTFA.
When has reading or thinking stopped any slashdotter from a good anti-MS ranting?
A rich Nigerian prince gave them 25 million dollars because they helped him transfer some funds. Microsoft gave him copies of Windows in return.
...Microsoft is using underhanded business tactics to ensure that their operating system is the most widely used? This is new.
WSJ get it wrong again:
Wrong. Linux is not a Windows alternative. Windows is a poor imitation of GNU/Linux.
See full article here
http://www.mediainfocenter.org/story.asp?story_id=122760705
Sell your MS licenses and most of the other tech on ebay. then use that money to buy books and pay for teachers.
It's far more important to teach basics like math, reading, basic science, hygiene, and life skills, than how to move and click a mouse.
What is it with people thinking that what the 3rd world needs are computers? What they need is clean water, learn better agriculture, and to get an education that will allow them to live a better life.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
And then you end up addicted to freedom and all you can play is tux racer.
Later on, the article covers the Mandriva / Microsoft in Nigeria battle that was covered here before:
"TSC approached Mandriva SA, a French company that sells a Linux version. Believing Microsoft had offered its $3 package, Mandriva proposed a $3 price for a Linux operating system, plus about $2 for other software, say people familiar with the situation. In August 2007, TSC issued a purchase order for Mandriva Linux, and the laptop's Taiwanese manufacturer began loading it.
Microsoft continued to push Windows. It offered its XP and Office software for about $45 per machine, says Nyimbi Odero, then TSC's chief executive.
Mr. Odero says Microsoft wanted TSC to delete Linux from the initial shipments of Classmates. He says Microsoft proposed a way to "make it worth your while" through a joint-marketing agreement. According to a draft agreement Microsoft sent to TSC last Sept. 13, Microsoft would pay TSC to fund "certain marketing activities to encourage the sale and distribution" of Microsoft products. Mr. Odero says Microsoft made it clear that TSC wouldn't really be expected to market the products, but could keep the money as an incentive to replace Linux with Windows."
(for anyone who doesn't know, I work for Mandriva).
Our point is MS sucks, that's all.
Nobody wants to use Windows. It just comes "free" with the computer, just like MS-DOS before it.
The 90s? You mean back when Windows literally was just an MS-DOS shell?
It's almost the "teens" here. It's time to update your FUD.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I tried installing redhat a few times back in the 90s
Right, because nothing's changed since then.
The first OS featuring a Jew Screen of Death.
I can't wait to see how Apple takes advantage of this:
PC: (pushing computers into African kids (starving))
Mac: Oh that's nice PC, I see you're donating to the needy in Africa
PC: Uh, yeah (suspiciously). This has nothing to with Vista finding a user base that is happy to have it.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I tried installing redhat a few times back in the 90s
Replace redhat with Ubuntu, and 90s with 2008, and I think you'll have a much different experience.
wow, isn't it great that a company who's poured billions into developing a product and spends millions monthly marketing it has to 'ramp up' marketing against the free product in order to get people and businesses to use it?
Way to go Microsoft. But after MS Vista and considering your handheld OS( Windows Mobile ) still crashes regularly on phones, do you really think you can keep this up forever? Smart move going after those very poor and mostly unconnected to the outside world. They'll have little to compare your product to until they eventually get online and see/read how good GNU/Linux is, how cheap it is, and how easy it is to use. Because as soon as they find out and unless their incomes have increased dramatically, they'll switch or have to revert to piracy to stay with your Windows products. Products that are probably already close to 10 years old. Hello Windows XP, I'm talking about you and your new life on computers not capable of running your new brother, Windows Vista.
Ya gotta love it when a company must keep paying people to use their products. Especially when the alternative is something originally put together by a whole bunch of people in their spare time. Ouch, that's still gotta be pissing olde Steve Ballmer off. But then again, he's used to paying people to use their products since they've had to do this for like 20 years. IMO
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Yeah, it's really a shame that they can't sell it.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Your impression is based on your attempts sometime in the 90s. I see. Thanks for sharing it.
Is Microsoft really trying to help, is there even the pretense of this by their employees? Or does everyone, at the very least, agree that this is purely for the purpose of profit (which is ok if we don't pretend otherwise)
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
It amuses me that you review the present state of GNU/Linux based on your experience a decade ago. Particularly "I have yet to see Linux platform blah blah blah..." followed by "tried installing in (the era that everyone already knows all the distributions were a real bitch to work with in".
You should also mind the inclusivity of your comments, not all GNU/Linux users play WoW.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Well like the grandparent my attempts at a switch to linux have also always ended in failure. The biggest failure of linux I ran into, however, is community attitude. Wherever I looked for answers on forums for technical issues, I always was met with vehement hostility. Everyone adopt Linux, where we hate all newbs. No thanks. I have not had a single issue work or home that has not had to do with proprietary software that could not be solved in Windows as well as Linux.
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you.
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do...
'a';DROP TABLE users; SELECT * FROM DATA WHERE name LIKE '%'... if you're reading this, it didn't work.
It has to be especially nettlesome since Microsoft managed to slowly strangle out all of its profit-driven competitors by the late '90s. Other than the boutique / couture PCs Apple offered, the only way to compete with Microsoft was with free software. There's no debating that it's taken Linux a long time to get into a competitive position on the desktop, but its flexibility and nimbleness are starting to overcome Microsoft's inertia and the sheer size and increasing unmanageable nature of the Windows codebase.
so so it's all very well and good giving them computers.. at least it gives them a chance to come on here and give us their opinion... BUT DON'T THEY NEED A CERTAIN ELECTRICITY SUPPLY FIRST??
this is a virtual insanity that always seems to be governed by our love for this useless twisting of our new technology.
OK, I did, except my replaced OS was Slackware.
Ubuntu is worlds ahead, but it still has a steep learning curve.
Like, it took 2 days to get it to reliably connect to my wireless AP.
And that was after having to go get a project, compile it, take a "reading" of my wifi cards bios (or whatever FWCutter does), and get it to run.
Thank GOD I had a working WinTel machine to sit next to the Ubuntu machine.
In Ubuntu's favor, I DID have 100Base Ethernet working "out of the box".... That was something I DIDN'T have in Slack.
Ubuntu automagically WON'T connect to unsecured AP's. This is a pain in the ass.
Windows is set up for the Lusers. Linux is set up for geeks. Until it "just works", it will need work. THAT'S the user experience people want.
Install, it works. If it comes with basic, stripped down versions of everything, so much the better (IE, wordpad, etc).
Don't believe me, look at the sales figures. Giving away a "superior product" that requires becoming a geek just to get your hardware to work (if it EVER does work) isn't what most people want... And most people, unfortunately or fortunately, tend to vote with their wallets. The fact people are STILL purchasing Windows means volumes.
Here's to the next revision of Ubuntu letting ME decide how I want my network set up, instead of the people at Ubuntu deciding how my wifi network should be.
Get the simple shit worked out, and Linux on the desktop will be a reality. But as long as people see the steep learning curve (and it IS there, believe me), it won't. Just common sense here.
To put it in an analogy that people here understand, it's like a girl. Most users here have no ideas about women, as most common computer users have no idea how to make Linux work. Just ask my roommate. He gets laid CONSTANTLY, but couldn't get Ubuntu to install and work.
disclaimer: I was able to get Ubuntu to pretty much work, and I have 3 kids, so I've been laid. I'm one of the minorities here lolol.
--Toll_Free
I have yet to see Linux platform DELIVER ANYTHING the entire world wants to use, in an easy to manage, easy to interact with format. I tried installing redhat a few times back in the 90s and after banging my head a few times to actually get it working I thought to myself "Oh. Sweet. Free Civ and data management I DONT NEED."
The 90s? That is relevant how? It is about as useful as my telling you that Mandriva 2009 is much better than Windows 3.1. What is relevant is how current Linux versions compare to current Windows versions.
There is a lot of software for Linux, and obtainning and installing it is much easier and faster than for Windows.
I guess what Im really saying is, most Linux/open source advocates do it for the rebellion not because they have a better product to promote
Wrong. Most Linux users use it because they think it is better. Those who want to use open source have good motives to do so (avoiding lock in, auditable security). The biggest advantages of Linux are that it is easy, and that it is flexible. All your software is managed an upgraded using a single GUI interface, some distros can even do major version upgrade with a few mouse clicks - try upgrading from XP to Vista that way!
As for the flexibility you can get distros for geeks (Gentoo, Slack, Arch), normal users desktops (Ubuntu, Mandriva, SuSe), servers (Debian, Red Hat), old hardware (Puppy, Damn Small Linux).
As a (primarily) Linux user myself, my best advice to you is that you shouldn't use Linux unless you can think of a reason to do so.
But please do not tar those of us who do use it as "rebels". I myself work for a telecoms company where Linux has "swept the floor" as the core OS for most of the telephony products that we sell. No, it hasn't particularly displaced Windows in doing so, more the commercial UNIXes like Solaris and HP-UX and, if anything, we use Windows to handle most of the client-side stuff for integration into corporate networks.
But please don't pretend to have any understanding of why people like me use Linux as their primary OS at home because your comments show your ignorance. I fully accept that Linux lacks a lot of the Adobe-type applications and other things that a lot of existing Windows people currently want to use but please remember that it is not Linux's fault that is the case - rather the Adobes of the world who just haven't decided to port those apps across as of yet.
However, for most users like me who just do a bit of photo and graphics work, The GIMP more than suffices. Likewise, I need to do a few relatively straightforward spreadsheets, documents and presentations so OpenOffice is good enough for me. Plus I'm a shell and PERL monkey so I have access to tremendous automation power at the Linux shell prompt which, even if I wanted to do something similar in Windows, would need a steep learning curve with VB, DotNet or something else, assuming it was even possible.
I also like gaming and there's plenty of Linux games that I play, thanks mostly to the Open Sourcing of games engines like Doom and Quake. Yes, I keep XP around to play some more modern stuff (and because sometimes I need MS Office also) but even if you look at my XP machines, you'll see most of the tools I use are OSS or free ones like Firefox, OpenOffice, PuTTY, WinSCP, The GIMP, Irfanview, ImgBurn, etc. etc.
Unfortunately, you've made two very obtuse comments which only serve to highlight your total lack of Linux knowledge:
1. Linux is a lot more mature now than the last time you installed it during the 90s (just like Windows XP is a much better OS than Windows 95 and 98 were), and
2. Linux is really just the kernel and most of the other nice useful bits that go into an average Linux distro also happen to have Windows ports as well - so choosing not to use free software on the basis that "if it was good you could sell it" is just doing yourself a dis-service, no-one else.
Yes, I'd love to be in a situation where one OS could do everything I needed to do but the fact is neither Linux or Windows fit that requirement at this moment in time. However, because I'm not a zealot and prefer just to use the "right tool for the job", I really don't give a toss whether an application needs Linux or Windows to run - I just get on and use whatever I need to when I need to, satisfied in the knowledge that most of the stuff I use is truly free to use, and the commercial software I use is fully licensed.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
And so MS is doing just like the gas companies: make the world addict to their product, brignin' the price VERY high, and when everybody is thinking about alternatives, lower the price or, in the case of MS, paying people to use the product.
I would have thought it's more like when Nestle pushed milk powder in Africa. (see second item) and here.
most Linux/open source advocates do it for the rebellion not because they have a better product to promote.
No, most OSS advocates do it because the software is THEIRS; by being part of the community that develops it they are personally involved with the software, and are justifiably proud of it. "Look what we built"
What I don't understand is why Microsoft apologists like you bother. You didn't help build Windows, MS has no loyalty to you; evidence shows they do not even LIKE you. They only want you to stay on the treadmill. And yet still you sing their praises. "Look what I paid for". Doesn't make any sense.
I'm picturing the battleground - Steve Ballmer against an army of the Ubuntu release name animals, led by Mark Shuttleworth on an African plain somewhere.
BUZZER !!!!! WRONG!
Been in Africa. The threat out there, honestly, isn't Linux. 'Coze - whatever they say about it - Linux is still not ready for the desktop. Specially in places where education is still a lagwagon. Don't expect anyone who can barely read to figure out why on earth their network isn't working, because their Linux distro doesn't support their cheapo noname network card.
Linux is not a threat to Windows in Africa. Pirated Windows is.
exactly. I was stunned when Windows Vista was released and it was not modularized like GNU/Linux or even Windows XP embedded. It did not scale down at all and that is enough evidence in my mind to see that they've bloated themselves into a big tumble downward. Pulling 8 year old tech, Windows XP, out of retirement to compete with GNU/Linux on the new-ish Ultra Mobile Devices(UMPs) was the next indicator but unfortunately, the press/media just brushed this off. It should be a big red flag showing how Microsoft does not have new technology to compete with GNU/Linux. More and more are seeing this so eventually they'll get it.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
That's not true, actually. I -chose- Windows for my Tablet PC because Macs cost too bloody much (Modbook) and Linux doesn't handle Tablet PCs well.
I also -chose- Windows for my gaming machine, since Mac and Linux don't handle those well, either.
However, for my 'work' machine at home, I chose Linux because it does what I want best.
So yes, people do -choose- windows for things. It's not just that it came with the computer.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
I always thought that MS gained marketshare/dominance through piracy. And I sill believe that that piracy is much more relevant in the adoption of Windows in emerging markets than anything else by a long shot.
Even if other systems come pre-installed. I guess the situation is now different because a large number of machines will come preinstalled with a very useful and useable os, which could prompt people to not just install pirated version of Windows on these machines as soon as they get them.
Microsoft decided to battle Linux in Africa when it learned that it recieves 3 bonus armies for every turn in which it manages to hold the entire continent.
The thing about climbing a steep learning curve is that very soon you are higher up than the man cycling around Holland.
I agree that the slope will put many off though.
I have a very nice MythTV installation ; at the time I did it, I had to use Gentoo with bleeding-edge kernels to support my hardware. These days I suspect the same configuration would be supported by a Mythbuntu disk, which is a world easier, but still beyond the average Joe.
I didn't use MythTV because of a lack of other offerings ; I used it because Free software offered me features that Big Media were not willing to let me have - the ability to retain recordings at my discretion, not theirs, the ability to transfer recordings to the device of my choice, edit, burn, etc.
I prefer to rely on my ability to resolve technical issues in a way that satisfies me, rather than a huge faceless corp who view support as a cost rather than an opportunity to learn, and having the source code allows me to do that.
My work project at the moment has 2 types of component ; ones I have the source for, and ones I don't. Both classes of component have had issues, but I was able to patch or customize the open-source ones to suit our purposes (and typically much cheaper than the support contract for the closed-source ones which would pay my wages for 4 months). That for me is a better product.
how Bill Gates and his "Foundation" (read: stock laundering scheme) are oh so concerned about the poor areas of the world - while the rip-off outfit that funded that Foundation steals the entire world blind.
It's a joke.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Its funny because you all:
A) modded me a troll for simply telling the truth and my own point of view. Very classy.
B) You all seem to be ignoring the main point that none of your "distro's" have anythign for the public.
Where are the games? The easy to understand GUI? Easy to configure and understand without a Comp Sci degree? The only way you can prove my point wrong is to give Windows and Linux to an average user and have them give you honest criticism on their experience using both. And guess what. Sales have shown that the experience with windows is just better.
And guess what, you aren't being unique or sparing your individuality by complaining just the same as every other guy who uses Linux and thinks hes sticking it to the man because he didn't pay one red cent for it. And on the subject of cost. You cant afford 200$ for your OS? You will blow 6000 for a state of the art rig you put together and then complain about paying for the OS? I am the only one who can see the childishness of this?
Well enjoy your Ubuntu and all that data management boys. Im gonna go play Fallout 3 without having to reconfigure WINE every Thursday, just as soon as Im done at my cushy job managing a windows network full of PCs that may have their individual problems but are terribly easy to manage and keep an eye on.
And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious!
Thank GOD I had a working Ubuntu partition that could actually communicate to the ethernet card so I could actually search for the proprietary Windows drivers on the net.
Have you ever actually tried to get a Windows installation to work without the benefit of the proprietary driver discs? Starting from the same clean slate (an OS ISO), I'd wager you'll have better luck with Ubuntu these days.
Microsoft pushes Windows in Africa...
Microsoft should be pushing mosquito netting in Africa - Windows will just let the Malarial mosquitoes in.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Here are some statistics that might bring Microsoft's "charitable marketing" into perspective:
African GDP/capita (Currency): $671
African Population livingon under $1 per day: 36.2%
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Africa
Geographical Distributions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GDP_PPP_Per_Capita_Worldmap_2008_CIA_Factbook.svg
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
Microsoft shouldn't be giving schools computers,they should be giving these children and teachers there daily needs (Food, Water, Clothing, ect.). Also, I think Africa should be using Ubuntu as their main OS. For two reasons. One, it's free. Two, we need to break away from the evil Microsoft empire. Man, I wish we use Ubuntu in High school...were stuck with XP. (Yes, Slashdot has a few 14 year old readers ;))
"Mama always said life was like a box a chocolates, never know what you're gonna get" - Forest Gump
What exactly was underhanded here?
Have you ever actually tried to get a Windows installation to work without the benefit of the proprietary driver discs?
Slipstreaming DriverPacks into the install disc doesn't completely take that pain away but it helps considerably. I've had absolutely horrible times with new SATA controllers and DriverPacks REALLY helps with that one but even so I did have one machine that absolutely refused to load until I made the disc and dragged out the USB floppy drive that XP likes (and it only likes certain older ones). The other one that will absolutely kill you is the drivers for some WinModems. They may not work in Linux but even finding the correct driver for a lot of them is hell in Windows too. More than once, I've had the OEM modem installer fail to work and then have to hunt and hunt before I find an out of the way dusty generic version of the driver that does.
"My name is Ballmer. Just...Ballmer. From God, to Gates, to Ballmer. I am his right hand, and I have a task for you. This is Stallman. He has caused the Corporation much grief. His views do not coincide with ours, and that makes him dangerous. Silence him."
Perhaps Microsoft will hire the Janjaweed to drive Linux out of Africa. At least then they will leave the Darfur region alone.
Have gnu, will travel.
It makes perfect sense when you consider that Microsoft simply has the better product. There's no need to apologize for that.
Yeah? Well I tried installing Windows CE a few and gave up out of frustation also, whats your point?
Windows Vista Ultimate, SP1.
HP Turion X2 based system. I had NO driver disks, as originally it had x86 based os on it, and I upgraded to Vista Ultimate X64.
Machine booted after install, no problems, touch pad worked, quick keys worked, remote control worked.... Come to think of it, everything worked.
So yes, I have. Ubuntu, I actually had to compile a program to get the drivers to the wifi card. Complete rediculousnous.
Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE fan of *nix, cut my teeth on SCO XENIX (on a x86 based POS system, Engineering for Tandy in the 80s. I also understand about having proprietary drivers needed (I have an HP printer lol), but I've still had more trouble getting a linux install working on relatively current hardware, vs getting VISTA (of all things) to work flawlessly on this machine (IOW, no driver issues at ALL, on 64 bit install at that).
--Toll_Free
Adobe picture and movie editing is the major things that keep me tethered to Windows. Fanboys who say Linux provides the equivalent are nonpersuasive. The only other big consideration, for me, is the ability to share MS Office products. This latter consideration is fading very fast.
I'm not much of a programmer, but I think that Linux now has the tools for even me to make stuff that I think is cool. That is why I now dual-boot with Linux and that is the very powerful pull of Linux to me.
I think that most computer users in the huge diverse continent of Africa would probably favor Linux because multimedia and MS Office would be considered less valuable than a stable operating system with the tools to make cool stuff.
If Microsoft gave away complete development suites along with Office and Vista for $45 dollars, then Microsoft could fairly compete with Linux in Africa. Otherwise, Linux ought to grab huge computer-share.
If cheap, useful (solar, wind, water powered?) devices with embedded hardware were effectively marketed in Africa, then that would, I suspect, really speed up the adoption of Linux in Africa. Local ingenuity would soon take over from there.
In the event you are actually ignorant and not just trying to pick a fight, I can assure you that as someone who hasn't run Windows in several years, and does most of his computing on Linux (along with OS X on a laptop), I am not doing so out of any sense of "rebellion", although I don't see anything wrong with that mindset under certain circumstances.
If your primary reason for using a computer is to play games, you certainly should just stay with Windows. If I wanted to play games I think I'd rather have one of those thing you hook up to your TV.
I used to support Windows users for a living, and before that OS/2 users and before than DOS users and before that mainframe users.
I used to be quite a fan of Windows because it ran on several hardware platforms, was fairly fast, had a reasonable feature set. Interestingly enough, Linux does all that now, and Windows does not. So you see it is Windows (or Microsoft) that rebelled against me when they decided only to support Intel boxes, allowed the code to get bloated, buggy and slow. If you like being forced to buy a new computer every few years just to get the OS to boot in a reasonable amount of time, then by all means go ahead and do that. Not only are you having to pay, in most cases, full price to get the latest version of Windows (over the years MS hasn't been able to make up its mind regarding upgrade-only versions of Windows, but as I understand it these days it's better to go with the full release) but you are also required usually to get a whole new computer as your old one is maxed out on memory that is no longer easily available etc. Again, for gaming, having the fastest processor, and the mos memory, fastest bus, etc. are all important for running the game, regardless of your OS. For ordinary web browsing, light office work, photo-shop type stuff, my vintage 2000 machine does quite well. In fact, when Windows users see me on it they ask how I got it to be so fast. I am quite sure that if I tried to run Windows on this machine it would be a very frustrating experience.
Also, I'm not running Linux because it is "free". I purchased my first few versions of Linux in the form of Red Hat and Suse. Eventually found I liked Debian better (even purely for desktop use) and so I settled on it. Of course it's nice not to have to pay for your OS, but even if each major release of Debian cost as much as Windows I'd still be coming out way ahead both in terms of the hardware I'd need to run it and in terms of time wasted on virus scanning, defragging, cleaning my registry and of course mandatory upgrades. Of course if you are paying $3 for it in Africa, maybe you don't mind all the overhead. I'm sure those people paying $3 are getting full telephone support from Microsoft for that too.
We had a guest speaker here at my university just last week talk about this. He's setting up wireless mesh networks in rural Zambia. It's essentially the only communication system they have. Cell phones cost 66 cents/min and the locals make $1/day..
Anyway, they have very limited internet access, with a few hundred machines behind a 128 kbps link. They pay $1100/month for it. No way in hell are they gonna keep downloading all the patches needed on Windows. As such, a Windows machine is only useful for about two months (tops) before the worms eat it.
boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse
Quit using Gentoo and Slackware and get a distro where people actually help on the forums. ;-)
Linux handles gaming just fine, and Mac isn't bad at it either. What sucks is game developer support for those platforms, not the support of the platforms for graphics, networking, and simple AI.
1) download Puppy
2) install Puppy
3) have working system
There is no ???.
Similarly, replace Puppy with Mandriva, Mint, Ubuntu, or Fedora.
My troubles were Redhat and Mandrake, but I have been creeping towards changing an old xp box into a ubuntu box because we don't use it. I'm just looking for the free time.
Linux does offer equivalent alternatives for those apps -- for novices and low-end hobbyists. It's when you actually need certain professional features that you're SOL.
Wherever I looked for answers on forums for technical issues, I always was met with vehement hostility. Everyone adopt Linux, where we hate all newbs.
Did you try searching the information you need, before posting to a forum?
What often happens is that a person - one who never bothered to search for the information he/she needs - simply post their problems and expect to be served as if they were paying for something.
Sorry, but such person is not expecting community support, that person is abusing it.
I don't know your case specifically, but if the hat fits in...
woah .. you ARE a troll. Too bad I can't mod you down right now
Games : lots of them, some with flashy grafics too. Of course, you won't find Fallout3 or Mirror's Edge ... disgressing. I forgot to whom I was talking to, Crysis and WoW for Linux, but quite a few of the newer windows games DO run in wine. On the other hand, nobody stops you from dual booting to windows. That's what I do personally : boot windows if I want to play somethign I can't play in Linux, Linux for everything else
Easy to understand GUI : Gnome, KDE, even XFCE aren't exactly brain surgery (or rocket science if you happen to be a brain surgeon, which I very seriously doubt in your case). On the other hand, you'd probably say tha OSX isn't easy to understand, as it's NOT windows neither (as a side note, I find GNOME to be easier than OSX)
Basically, you're ranting, talking gibberish, and obviously stuck in a time warp that doesn't let you get away from the early 90s, but somehow I felt like I needed to feed you. By the way, you don't need a US$6000 rig to run linux comfortably. Actually, you don't even need that for VISTA, and that's telling much
"DRM is like the Ford Pinto: it's a smooth ride, right up the point at which it explodes and ruins your day."-C.Doctorow
All your software is managed an upgraded using a single GUI interface, some distros can even do major version upgrade with a few mouse clicks - try upgrading from XP to Vista that way!
Ehm.. FYI: to do a mayor OS upgrade with just a few mouse clicks, works just fine, even in Windows. The only difference is with Windows, those few mouse clicks are a hell-uv-a-lot more expensive.
ahh .. you're definitely not new here. You already learnt when not to read TFA in case it might contradict your opinions.
Most users here have no ideas about women, as most common computer users have no idea how to make Linux work. Just ask my roommate. He gets laid CONSTANTLY, but couldn't get Ubuntu to install and work.
disclaimer: I was able to get Ubuntu to pretty much work, and I have 3 kids, so I've been laid. I'm one of the minorities here lolol.
Er... What being laid has to do with the ability of installing Ubuntu or any other Linux?
A working Windows is pretty much a pain in the ass to install (reboot, reboot, install drivers, reboot, driver fail who-knows-why, reboot, install program, reboot etc etc).
About the fact you have a "roommate" and the ending "lolol"...
How old are you? And you have three kids?
Did you forget the condom or are you simply idiot?
Slipstreaming DriverPacks into the install disc......
I thought the discussion was about setting up Linux is for geeks, while Windows can be done by anyone?
MS will be making a thumping loss on this ... are there are not anti dumping laws to stop this sort of thing ?
I tried installing redhat a few times back in the 90s and after banging my head a few times to actually get it working I thought to myself "Oh. Sweet. Free Civ and data management I DONT NEED."
I tried installing Windows a few times back in the 90s, and after banging my head around the TCP/IP stack to actually get it working I thought to myself "Oh. Sweet. Viruses and an annoying paperclip I DONT NEED." It may surprise you to learn that computers have advanced over the last two decades.
And then Linux users go out of their way to do things like make World of Warcraft work on their PC. Look buddy. Ya great you got it working but you are very knowledgeable in Linux, which has a steep learning curve. And most users dont want to spend 2 weeks getting their drivers to work just right to play a game.
The thing is, it only took that one guy 2 weeks to get WoW working, and now hundreds of Linux users get it working with far less effort. Open source beats proprietary not because it's easier to make it work, but because only one person has to put in the effort for everyone else to benefit.
After all if your open source was a decent product, youd be able to SELL IT
People don't sell Linux, not because nobody is willing to pay for it (people pay millions for Unix), but because people don't _have_ to pay for it. Would you pay for a car, even a good one, if you could get it for free from a different dealership?
http://www.mhall119.com
Yes this happened in South Africa guess what all the schools are now suddenly trying to find money to pay the yearly M$ licenses.
Interesting ?
Why are you replying to me complaining about moderation? I can't mod you and comment at the same time.
There's plenty of games, the blockbuster hits are for Windows because Vivendi and company seem explicit on only working with other corporations who's existence can actually be dumbly understood. Ask them where the fuck the games are.
Anyone who uses GNU/Linux to be a rebel are only fooling themselves. There are some people who actually care about the nature of their software, particularly licensing.
I'll play Fallout 3 as well, because thanks to Ubuntu's awesome installer I didn't have one ounce of trouble dual booting it with XP.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Yes and that would be my second biggest gripe. When searching I would find 20 "correct" answers often one was the correct answer. When none of the "correct" answers worked for me then I would post on a forum. However the forums seemed to carry the same assumption you just assigned to me, that I didn't bother to search and hadn't just wasted multiple hours of my life searching for something that seemed to be trivial.
Phase 1) Allow Microsoft to indulge in their usual anti-competitive behaviour.
Phase 2) Prosecute them.
Phase 3) $1.4bn profit!
Microsoft makes risky predatory investments in the grossly uncertain future of poverty stricken countries while its product line turns to shite, its US market share continues to slip, and its cash reserve continues to dwindle. Makes me feel good all over.
You mean if he's taller than average, his head might be above sea level?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I had this problem like, one time in my life. That was back when I tried to use words I didn't know the definition to.
RAM THOSE GIGABYTES!
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
The poor countries cannot afford the high powered new machines required to run windows even if they get it free, most need linux because it will actually run on their hardware.
Actually I've found the forums for both of those, particularly Gentoo, to be quite helpful.
After a while though, you get to the point where Linux is Linux. A few files get placed in some different places, but if you know how to use the find command that's not a problem. These days I find it much more useful to visit the forums (or mailing list as it may be) of the specific application or program I'm having trouble with, rather than a distro's forums.
I started out on Debian, then went to Red Hat, then Mandrake, then Slackware, then Gentoo, then Ubuntu, and now I'm currently using Mint (it's like Ubuntu without a color scheme that makes you want to blow your brains out!). After a while what applies to one applies to another. I'll admit though, that a lot of what I do in Linux would not be suited to a regular user. I drop to the command line and do hand edits of config files pretty regularly. It's not complicated per sé, but that's in the eyes of someone who's been using computers for 20 years and Linux for 10. I'll admit that the process for a lot of things could be cleaned up and simplified for normal users.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Google hasn't always been as good as it is now, it used to be when I tried to search "refresh rate somemonitormodel xfree86.conf linux slackware" or whatever I was having Hell with it, often it was just my keyword selection because I didn't understand there were less ambiguous terms to use.
I ended up going to IRC #s and stuff asking what I should look for on Altavista or Yahoo, sometimes people would just give me the right answer instead. It took years of this before people started pointing me at Google instead, which I finally turned to and loved.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Are because of software patents, not ability.
Pantone colours, for example.
The comment about being laid was a joke. Guess you are above having a sense of humor.
And as far as attacking me personally, dildo, I have a roommate because I was involved in a motorcycle wreck a few months ago, and have sole custody of my kids. Not being able to walk kind of necessitates having some help, at least, here in the real world.
How old am I.... Let's see, I was a Systems Engineer in the 80s, so probably, older than you... More along the lines, of the same age as your parents, give or take.
So, jr. Go to your room. Mommies gonna get mad if she finds out you where using her computer again :)
All these problems you have installing windows, I don't see. Then again, I don't attemp to use outdated crap. To each his own, I suppose... Nor do I prefer to have "bleeding edge" or have to have the best, meaning drivers are nonexistant.
Nice attempt at a troll, however. 3 points for trying.
--Toll_Free
ahhhh. it does the soul good to see yet another linux digressor get modded down for being honest. too bad the zealots here don't realize that microsofts defective by design moniker is a step up from linuxs defective by incompetence slogan.
Couldn't MS be subject to legal ramifications because of dumping?
kadaji, fire up de generator!
.. i had to :)
But why?
To play de new vista box!
I just sold eet!
For what?
FOOD DUMBASS!
Sorry
New in Africa! Buy a computer with windows Vista and get a box of free ice cream sandwiches!
Go go Gadget Nailgun!
i learned it from the linux fanboys
Foremost, I have to say that I enjoy chinese philosophy a big deal. In that spirit, let me formulate it that way: I see Linux as the air or water of operating systems. Sure you can bottle it, make it popular and sell it for a price, but you will always have to compete with what is available for free.
Linux can, in this regard, never win. Have you ever seen water winning? As a businessman, I can always prey on the naivety of the uneducated, and make them believe that my bottled water is better than what comes out of their tap - and in some cases that may surely be the case.
Still, Linux will survive every operating system that exists and will exist in the marketplace. On the one hand you have labels and trademars. On the other hand you have a free platform that is always there if none of the other options seem to be feasible.
As long as there is a need for operating systems, its development may stagnate, but it will never end. Linux may change shape, name and direction, but it is impossible to defeat, just as it is impossible to destroy water.
So, please, do not worry too much about what these silly businessmen are doing. Persistence, attention, openness and honesty are key to success here. Microsoft may have a few more years, we have centuries.
Do not trust this signature.
You do know there is a lot of hardware supported out the box with Linux, and some that isn't.
You tend to have more success when you buy hardware that is supported.
(assume samual jackson voice)
Did your computer come with anything that said it was designed to work with Linux or any particular version of Linux Brad? No, So why did you decide to treat it as if it was.
Now Brad it said designed for Windows Vista, didn't it Brad and when you gave it Vista it ran perfectly fine, now why are we not surprised?
Thats right brad it was designed to run vista.
So what have learned brad? Don't bitch when you buy hardware without knowing if its supported or not. Thats right brad but don't feel too bad because that computer can't run XP! Wwwhat! yes brad there are no drivers for XP because everybody was supposed to be happy with Vista.
Well Don't be too sad brad install virtualbox and XP and Ubuntu will run without complaint or any need to compile anything...
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
"This is Stallman. He has caused the Corporation much grief. His views do not coincide with ours, and that makes him dangerous. Silence him."
"Your main opposition will be Battle Linux - a Linux distribution specifically formulated to counteract and incapacitate Microsoft software..."
Bow-ties are cool.
Funny. I chose linux for my tablet pc because windows didn't handle it any better. I'll admit that windows is better for playing some games but for playing games in general, linux isn't that bad either.
Even though many people choose windows for a reason, it's usually just being lazy or not knowing better, with not knowing being more common.
FreeCraft was headshot because its recent incarnation worked StarCraft gameplay into the fray, and all revisions of StarCraft after 1.0 were going out of their way to prevent a measly opensource project from allowing its user to play on over 20 different operating systems free from Microsoft code. And this was back in year 2001! Just imagine how much code Vivendi Blizzard scans through to make sure they are a 100% Microsoft Apple footprint! It's ridiculous, but Microsoft gives the incentive by kickbacks.
Just think of all those wasted hours of StarCraft competition through all the performance bottlenecks if only people could use FreeCraft. And what is even funnier is FreeCraft originally allowed WarCraft 1 & 2 data to be used, so this would evolve into an Orc vs Protoss battle really quick. Oh for shame! Sam Lantinga should be shot for working for Blizzard.
Aren't you the idiot who claimed the Apple store didn't fully refund opened software, and when proven wrong about that, then claimed they didn't sell games, and when proven wrong about THAT, started whining to the mods that the proof of you being wrong was "off topic".
And the whole time you were quoting from the very document that proved you were full of shit but you were too stupid to scroll down to see it?
Yes, yes you are that fucking idiot.
I hope this turns out like Far Cry 2, that would be epic.
I can just see linux pulling bullets out of its flesh with pliers while mowing down the foreign MS mercenaries.
What?
Huh? $800 per seat? 800 what, USD? If those are client machines then that's insane. Even for Microsoft. I mean, the in-store windows pro for ~$200US gives you five licenses right? So I'd think, starting from $40US/license, then with an educational discount, then with a it's-frickin-Africa-and-we-have-to-pretend-to-have-a-heart-discount, it should be $10-20US max.
$800 license for Windows and Office? Are these server licenses maybe? Or is it a misprint and that's the price of an entire machine? I tried looking on Microsoft's licensing page, but their prices are obfuscated behind a 10-foot thick wall of PHB-speak. Ok, google produced this excel file that puts what is (I think) win pro at $311/4= $77.75US per seat. Can someone anointed with the licensing voodoo enlighten me please?
OT: the excel file linked from microsofts site is named: Copy%20of%20Price_List_Report.xls LOL
Billy Brown rides on. Yolanda Green bypasses Gary White.
Aren't you the idiot who claimed the Apple store didn't fully refund opened software, and when proven wrong about that, then claimed they didn't sell games, and when proven wrong about THAT, started whining to the mods that the proof of you being wrong was "off topic".
And the whole time you were quoting from the very document that proved you were full of shit but you were too stupid to scroll down to see it?
Yes indeed you are that fucking idiot.
AND NOW you all KNOW why gates donated money to fight aids.
So he can say oh i want that cash back now.
hardware isn't "designed" for any platform, only the drivers are. your argument is rubbish.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
It takes an eternity and a half to start. Bash is instantaneous.
Writing something in powershell automatically makes it an incredible resource hog. Shell scripts should not be that way.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Well in every poor country there are always some very rich. Of course those rich can afford the download of M$ patches - with there huge M$ bribes in there pocket.
Kinda reminds me of the story of Nestle giving free samples of baby formula in poor 3rd world countries ("it's much more modern, scientific and better for your child than breast milk"), and once the mothers' breast milk dried up, they couldn't necessarily afford the expensive formula, resulting in starving children.
Microsoft, you baby-killers!
Small correction... People do sell Linux. Redhat and Novell to say the least sell Linux with support. People also sell linux in netbooks and mobile devices and sell linux based services in places you never realize its linux at the bottom of the stack.
Well, at least they're doing something positive, even if it's for the sake of not wanting people to use Linux...
But it'd have been a much better idea to spend this money on being able to do something for the poor countries' economies somehow.
I am not devoid of humor.
I stand corrected. Games designed for Linux run perfectly.
But since almost nobody designs the big commercial games for Linux, my point stands. I chose Windows for my gaming machine because it's what best runs the games I want to play. I tried the Wine method for a while, and for older popular games it worked great. It just doesn't do what I need for the newest games, including the casual games from BigFish, etc.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
After all if your open source was a decent product, youd be able to SELL IT
People don't sell Linux, not because nobody is willing to pay for it (people pay millions for Unix), but because people don't _have_ to pay for it. Would you pay for a car, even a good one, if you could get it for free from a different dealership?
We buy linux all the time for our business, because it is illegal for us to use it for free. We have support contracts in place for most of the Linux vendors. We also buy Windows, but given the problems we are having with it from a security and technical standpoint (and we haven't even tried upgrading to Vista,) we are very close to dumping Windows for Linux. Quite a few of our networks are Linux only.
We buy linux all the time for our business, because it is illegal for us to use it for free.
It is legal for you to use Linux for free, there are many places where you can obtain a copy of Linux for free.
The particular distribution that you use may be bundled with additional proprietary software or support guarantees, in which case that is what you are paying for. But GNU/Linux itself is rarely sold, because it's widely available for free.
http://www.mhall119.com
My experiences with Linux have been a very mixed bag. My current install was about as easy as they get, but I've had many problems in the past, including with older versions of Ubuntu.
So far, I've never had a trouble-free installation with Linux on a brand-new, fresh from WorstBuy computer. Until that happens, I don't consider Linux ready for "Joe Sixpack".
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Last I heard, most distros CAN'T do seamless version upgrades, at least not very well. I saw a website with instrustions on upgrading from Fedora 7 to 8 that looked like something out of a wizard's spellbook. Mandrake was well-known for upgrade problems (admittedly my knowledge there is outdated; last time I used it it was called Mandrake), and even Ubuntu has a mixed track record for that.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Effectively, Linux had already offered you a world wide unlimited license to the binaries and source with free updates for life all for the tidy sum of ZERO. That doesn't leave a lot of cash for visits. Ask MS how many hundred billion USD they would charge for the same license (that is, strip all DRM and publish the source to their OS and other software, make it freely copyable).
That must have been a damned good lunch!
without a driver you can't use the hardware, anything designed to be used by Vista has to include drivers for Vista it doesn't have to include a driver for anything else including other versions of windows.
It certainly doesn't have to have a driver for linux.
hence your box full of hardware that doesnt work under linux. There is no liking about it, just an unwillingness of the Hardware manufacturer to get a driver produced.
Pretty much your options are to buy hardware designed to work with Linux or to research carefully.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
The problem with the wireless is just a vendor not playing nice and releasing firmware. It's not that wired lan vendors played nice or anything, they just got reverse engineered until the linux drivers worked better than the vendor provided windows drivers ever did.
OTOH, installing Linux on a new HP laptop w/ an Intel wireless card, it just worked first try.
Windows is set up by OEMs because Lusers can't get it to install at all without help.
If you don't want a hassle with the hardware, avoid it the same way Windows users do, buy a machine pre-installed with Linux.
I'm currently teaching English in a rural secondary school in Namibia, and helping with the computer lab as I can. We're one of the lucky schools - we have internet access through a radio link and often have as many at 15 working computers (power supplies and monitors seem to have short lifespans out here).
All of our computers use Linux (either Open Lab or Edubuntu) as part of the SchoolNet distribution. The problem? Our computer curriculum is specifically designed with Microsoft products in mind (Office and Publisher) and the teachers here don't have enough of a background to transfer the learning objectives to Open Office in the classroom.
So MS (or whoever set the curriculum to MS products) has managed to create a situation where the teachers are actively campaigning against the free alternative. It's insidious and hard to fight.
More and more people and governments in Windows orientated western countries switch to Linux. Why? Because it is an open platform. Microsoft may push it's software to new markets but in time people will realize the mistake they made and eventually switch too Linux too.
Read the Microsoft internal "Halloween" documents on how to deal with open source software http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/
Mandrake cannot do upgrades from the Mandriva One CDs (which is what I usually use for the small download size) and has not done version upgrades from the repos like Ubuntu does (although I think that may be possible with the latest version). I full CD sets do have upgrade options, but I have not tried them.
People obviously don't know shit of what is happenning in Africa. Just last week there were more violence in the DRC. People have responded to the current economic collapse by eating less. How much will it matter to them whether Linux or Windows are installed on their computers?
Power cuts here in Nigeria happens every day. You have malaria, aids, corrupt politicians and a hundred other problems here. The roads are in dire need of repair. The Niger delta is in a state of emergency thanks to MEND.
Trust me, it doesn't mean shit. Anyways, when people want something here, they do not care about things like copy protection, they just take it.
Why are people always so emotional about the small things, and totally miss the big things?
Penny wise, pound foolish.
"Ubuntu automagically WON'T connect to unsecured AP's. This is a pain in the ass."
Read that out loud. It's LINUX. It's not supposed to connect to ANYTHING unsecure by default. That's Microsofts job.
BTW: My Lenovo T61 worked out of the box. Everything, including WiFi. Since you have three kids, I've probably been laid more than you.
I say things which affects my Karma negatively. (and I don't care) For instance; All religion is false.
Dear Microsoft supporter,
My group runs (owns) 30 linux servers and 8 linux clients at work. We use it for high end trading applications for a wall street firm. As far as I know, Linux is now "the custom of the industry" for trading applications -- because it is technically superior in every way. My firm has literally thousands of Linux machines. So do all our competitors and the exchanges.
I do run one Microsoft client workstation (XP) for each person in my group. These run predominately brain dead applications that are provided for us by backwards looking vendors in Microsoft only. We also run Cygwin as an X server so that we can use the Microsoft machines as dumb xterminals to the linux applications if we need another screen. (The closed source Hummingbird Exceed X server does not function as well, as cost is no object.)
At home, we have two linux PC's that are shared among three users (myself, my wife, and my 12 year old). I do all the "system administration". They don't know better that there might be some proprietary apps. Games are not an issue -- I won't buy them or let my twelve year old play them -- he has more than enough homework and other non-academic activities. I'm going to outfit a third machine for my 7 year old daughter.
I run linux at home because it costs less time for me. The fact that I don't have to purchase an expensive software component from some monopoly manufacturer (think backup software, virus checking software, or Office upgrades) for each machine every two years is also a factor in that it "just bugs me" that they charge so much for something that should have been included in the operating system.
The machines just keep running without problem. Never had a detected piece of malware.
So, for the use that I know, Linux is the most economically effective choice.
Maybe in your business you use predominately vendor locked in software on Microsoft. Then Microsoft might be economically the more effective for you.