T-Mobile G1 Faster Than iPhone 3G

An anonymous reader writes "CNET UK have run some very simple in-house tests comparing the T-Mobile G1's 3G connection against the iPhone 3G's. Result? The G1 loaded Web pages almost twice as fast as the iPhone's. Of course, the test only applies to the CNET UK offices if you're being scientific about it, as stated, but it's still impressive nevertheless."

Comments

The thing is still ugly

[FatJuggles]

I'd buy it if not for that awkward looking track ball

Re:The thing is still ugly

[MikeDirnt69]

I still believe iPhone is all marketing, the product itself is just average. But that's only my opinion...

Re:The thing is still ugly

[0xdeadbeef]

Yeah, I hear you. I'd buy a car if weren't those ugly wheels.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

By average you mean the rest of the market is a sea of similar phones?

Re:The thing is still ugly

[CannonballHead]

I would be tempted to say that about most Apple products. They do have some good ones, and they have some overpriced hyped ones that really aren't that amazing... although, with some (like the iPhone) there wasn't much competition for a while.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[koutbo6]

Marketing gets the product noticed, it doesn't ensure that people will come back and buy the 2nd generation of a product.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[MikeDirnt69]

No, I mean it's resources/capabilities should be a lot better.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Austerity Empowers]

The track ball I can ignore. I wouldn't buy it because I have never met a happy HTC owner.

Plus, 90% of the time I own such a phone I will (want to) have it plugged into my laptop at work. So far no one is exactly embracing this usage model.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[sveard]

I remember when the iPod first came out its competition was (IMO) pretty worthless.

Apple seems to be a good innovator, but they are (again, IMO) not able to compete with the products that imitate them. A lot of Apple's competitors release decent products inspired by Apple's products, but in a (much) lower price range.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

Better than what? The average phone is the RAZR, so in THAT standpoint the iPhone is better than the average.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[EdipisReks]

I still believe iPhone is all marketing, the product itself is just average. But that's only my opinion...

have you used or owned one? as an owner of an iPhone 3G, and having used many other smartphones on the marked, i'd have to say that ya-ya-ya-ya-you're on crack.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[AshtangiMan]

In terms of hardware capabilities I agree. But the iPhone is a really great design, which the G1 has not matched. The trackball, moving screen, tilted bottom piece, lack of standard 1/8th" audio jack of the G1 are awkward in the end. I would like to see something with the simplicity of the iPhone with an open architecture and cutting edge hardware. Disclaimer, i realize that there are drawbacks to the iPhone design, battery service comes to mind, but that is a sacrifice I would make due to the elegance of the rest.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

Its userinterface looks awesome. It's not worth the insane price asked though.

But yeah, unless it's open for all kinds of applications it still sucks.

I'd prefer G1/openmoko over any phone, but G1 isn't released here :/

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

five years ago?

Re:The thing is still ugly

[RiotingPacifist]

you would think that £150 for a handset and an extra £15 a month would get you something more than looks though.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

I will be moderated troll/flamebait as always in this kind of threads but I don't care.

So, could you tell me which ones are the good non-overpriced ones?

Imho:

Nano - non-good.
Classic - non-good.
Touch - somewhat good, but there are better and more price worthy players out there.
iPhone - insane price.
Mac mini - are you kidding?
Macbook - somewhat good but over-priced.
Macbook Pro - Good but really over-priced.
iMac - Good and decent price at release for 24" ones, only product worth it's price if you're not an übergamer and actually need the screen.
Mac Pro - Over-priced (don't give me this "omg just compare it to another machine of similar spec"-bullshit. I don't give a shit, I would never configure a machine that bad. I could get much better performance for less.)
Airport Express - Rather cool if it could play audio even outside iTunes, but I don't think it can so overpriced.
Airport Extreme - Very overpriced.
AppleTV - Why?

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

Forgot the Air, good for its purpose but really really way to much overpriced.

All the LCDs are way to overpriced as well, buy one from Dell instead. WFP2807 or something like that is MVA I think.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

What, GPS, WiFi, web browsing, email, maps, chat, video, music, YouTube, and the lightsaber app don't count as more than looks?

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

the trackball rocks. kicks the shit out of trying to click on a link in a tight cluster of links with your big fat finger, having to zoom all the way in to click links on my ipod touch is tedious at best. but if you are buying your smartphone based on how it looks, that might be irrelevant to you.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[binarylarry]

I've had a G1 for about a week and I don't think your comments make much sense.

The trackball is very convenient, it gives you mouse-like control over the screen. On the G1 and the iPhone, the touchscreen is good but it's no replacement for a mouse. The iPhone would be better with a trackball. The moving screen is handy, because there are so many good apps for Android already, you'll run out of room. The titled bottom piece causes absolutely no issues whatsoever. The only complaint I'd give credit to is the audio jack thing. They should have included a regular 3.5mm jack.

I've used both the G1 and the iPhone and I like the G1 a lot more so far.

It has a nice smooth interface, in the same ballpark as the iPhone. It has an easy to use app store, which is nicer than Apple's because it already has apps that you'd have to jailbreak the iPhone for. It uses standard mechanisms for thinks like uploading music, etc. Instead of locking you into their stupid iTunes product. As a developer, you get to develop on any platform you want and the dev kit is free.

So, honestly, the iPhone is a decent product, but it's been bested by Android already IMO. It will be interesting to see just how awesome Android becomes on future products.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[dyefade]

Other than the lightsaber app, that's pretty standard on most high-end phones. I pay a lot less for my Nokia N95 8GB, and on features alone it beats the iPhone. Naturally, it can't compete on interface, but it's not as bad as people tend to report. In some ways I prefer the interface even - buttons have their advantages.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[dyefade]

Should add a caveat to this rant: I am not at all familiar with the app store. My comments about features may be redundant.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[EagleRock]

I have an iPhone myself (first gen), and it I wouldn't say it's all marketing. It is an excellent phone by the virtue that it is enjoyable to use, as opposed to other phones which feel clunky and, well, unusable. It does excel at its core functionality and wraps it up in a beautiful interface. However, I do feel Apple's role in the market isn't as a market leader, but as an innovator. The iPhone really helped point cell phone developers where the phone market should be heading. That being said, I think the G1 is the first real response to Apple's innovations. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that it is a horrible mp3 player compared to the iPhone, I'd probably buy one right now.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

the phone itself is only $200, how is that insanely overpriced?

sure the plan is around $80 with unlimited data/texting, but unlimited data plans and texting isn't all that much cheaper on other networks.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Dog-Cow]

You forgot what it is that Apple sells. You just listed a bunch of parts.

Apple sells an integrated interface to as many digital devices as they've come up with components for. Music, video, TV, the computer, phone, and whatever else I'm not recalling.

That's what people are paying for.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[theaveng]

Just for gits and shiggles, I decided to try the same tests on my Windows XP Laptop with Netscape 56k modem, and on my Commodore 64's 2400 "baud" text-only browser:

>>>Our first test, timed by the venerable Rupert Goodwins, involved visiting eHam.net
Commodore 64 == 40 seconds
Netscape ISP == 5 seconds
G1 = 13; 3G == 24 (CNET test)

>>>this time visited CNET UK's sister site silicon.com
Commodore 64 == 100 seconds
Netscape ISP == 15 seconds
G1 == 21; Omnia == 45 (CNET test)

>>>we visited barackobama.com.
Commodore 64 == 60 seconds
Netscape ISP == 200 seconds (stupid Flash)
G1 == 45; 3G = 1:38 (CNET test)

So in most cases, the Netscape with Image Compression was faster than the Internet-capable phones, except when it had to deal with annoying Flash animations. And the ancient 1982 Commodore was about the same, so long as you don't mind doing text-only web browsing.

Man I'm bored.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[paanta]

No, I mean it's resources/capabilities should be a lot better.
Well, you're not really paying for resources and capabilities with an Apple product.
Apple has become a design-oriented company. They try to make sure everything looks and feels consistent. They make things as intuitive as possible, even if that means sacrificing some functionality. They don't add unusable junk to their products just so they can have the largest feature count. They spend real money on good industrial designers who make products that are nice to hold and look at. I think it's worth a price premium to get something that, even if it doesn't 'just work' as the ads suggest, has clearly been thought about for a good long time by people who know about creating a well rounded product.
I honestly don't care if the G1 is faster than my iPhone, just like it didn't bother me much that my old iBook's G3 processor was MUCH slower than the processors in Windows laptops of the era. You might not understand why people purchase Apple's stuff, but at least understand that those of us who do are not retards who don't carefully consider the pros and cons before spending $600 on a cellphone. :)

Re:The thing is still ugly

[OldeTimeGeek]

I don't have mod points, but I wouldn't mod this as troll because it isn't one. It's your opinion. Opinions are nice. Thank you for yours.

Incidentally, the $400 that I spent on an iPhone a year ago after the first price drop was almost exactly the same as I spent on a Treo 650 a year previously. Smartphones are more expensive than regular phones. That's the way it is.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

I don't hate macs, I hate the limited amount of options and the high prices (in europe/sweden at least.)

I'd take better graphics and panels over faster cpus and exotic memory options. Cheaper prices would be nice to, and closer service (no Apple stores here) but I can understand that the market is to small for the later / that it's mostly an american company and the software makes up for some of the extra cost.

I'd take Cowon D2, O2, Sandisk Sansa Fuze and Sony NWZ-series over iPod though, and a much cheaper phone than the iPhone (with subscription.)

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

Ok, but I'm a nerd, not a technology-moron.

Also I really doubt the Sony NWZ-series interface is harder to work with than iPhone, haven't seen much about the AppleTV so can't comment, most people seem to be able to use Windows just fine, iPhone IS cool but it cost 3-4 times to much including the subscription for me and the G1 is much more open so I wouldn't care for it anyway.

I like capable gadgets with options, not limited ones which force feed me their decisions and ways of doing things.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[rinoid]

Slashdot is dead to me. DEAD TO ME YOU HEAR??

(well ok, i'm a casual poster...)

That this guy's post got rated up to 5/Informative is craaaazy.

iPhone happens to have a very fast processor. Have you seen it run one of the many 3D games?

And yea, what of wifi, bluetooth, phone, ipod, safari, mail, chat, video capabilities make it average????

I've seen trolls and you sir are a troll.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[mc900ftjesus]

Ever hear of Windows Mobile or S60? ALL of that was available well before the iPhone was ever announced (except lightsaber, but who really cares?). It's really nothing special, just more idiot-proof and much less flexible.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[TheWGP]

Sounds to me like you'll be an Apple fanboy once you get a new job and start making more money! :)

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

No it's not, what I pay when I get the phone doesn't matter. Total cost does.

Or do you think a 54" TV with "pay $100 now and split the rest over 36 months" only cost $100 as well?

I can't understand how people can be that stupid.

"omg look I got this phone for only $1!!!!"

Morons.

Also I don't need unlimited data or phone calls, or 3000 SMS. I can see how much data makes sense for the iPhone but in general I'd much rather pay for the very limited amount of calls I do.

And if the iPhone do or did Wifi I would had access covered most of the time anyway.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

wtf, not my day today. Than the iPod, not than the iPhone. Sony NWZ are music players not phones.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Old97]

I wouldn't say this post is a troll, but it's definitely not insightful. It's just some opinions without any supporting arguments. Fine, but "insightful" should be reserved for posts that tell you something that can deepen or change your understanding of a subject or demonstrate that the poster has something out of the ordinary to share. This is just an opinion! So if I write that "Zune is good" do I get mod-ed as "insightful" or "insane"? I think that on /. "insightful" too often means "it agrees with my opinion".

Re:The thing is still ugly

[g0rAngA]

There are plenty of phones that perform better the Mr iPhone that have all those things (except the lightsaber app, though that isn't necessarily a deal-breaker).
Web browsing, email, maps, chat, video, music, YouTube...they're all data. GPS is hardly a cutting-edge feature either, though it is far from standard. Same goes for WiFi.
What sets the iPhone apart in my eyes is the looks and the touch-screen, both of which are impressive.

Don't misunderstand me, I think its a decent phone. Its just not as revolutionary as all the hype would have you believe.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

The configurations still suck, and I don't like being "fooled."

Why can't the offer competitive products instead of cripple them on purpose to make insane amount of money from the people actually buying the stuff anyway?

I ran a hack earlier instead of this real one and since the hacks seems to be even easier to use by the time and not stop working my next machine will likely be a hack. Or FreeBSD + KDE but I'd like a couple of pro apps to.

Windows isn't that bad nowadays either, was worse in 3.11 / 95 era.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[cthellis]

The plan is $70 before tax ($40 for the lowest-price voice plan, and $30 for UL data), but there is no SMS included. It's unlimited data, not texting. (Which, IMHO, is retarded.)

If course you can certainly SMS out of other iPhone apps, so at least for sending them you never need to accrue a SMS charge. ;-)

Offhand, the UL data plan is pretty competitive. Certainly it's better than Verizon's continued bullshit (which was much of why I wasn't on a Treo years before), and it seems right in line with the others. (Sprint you seem to be able to do a lot better with if you know how to get the SERO plan.)

In the end, that's pretty much the point, though. It's worth it if you plan on taking advantage of what UL data and online-access-everywhere can bring you. If THAT isn't worth the money to you, then certainly the iPhone (or just about any other smartphone) isn't worth it for you. You might as well get a regular cell phone and pick up a Touch if you want to hop on the platform, rather than cart around the data charge.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[MikeDirnt69]

Man I'm bored.

Man I'm bored.[2]

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

Yes. Considering that more RAZRs were sold in the US than iPhones?

So in four years we can complain when iPhones become "average" and the new G2 is completely uninspiring.

Average only means something because it is established. 5 years ago the RAZR was NEW, not average.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

Yes, but as per the original poster, we're talking about average. Your N95 isn't the average phone in the US (where the G1 exists). We are comparing to the Motorola RAZR, which last quarter was the #1 selling phone, followed by the iPhone. The iPhone is competing against the average phone. If you want to qualify against the average smartphone, that means the Blackberry!

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

Feel free to drop me an e-mail and I can explain all the reasons ;D

dospam at that mail service on g.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[PopeRatzo]

"Apple-fans...MOBILIZE!

I'm not really sure, but I think something in this article says something bad about iPhones.

You know what to do..."

Re:The thing is still ugly

[mario_grgic]

I don't know about that. I have Mac Pro and at the time I could not buy any other machine with same performance, fantastic design (and it matters to me: the cooling solution is brilliant, everything is accessible and above all, the machine is ultra quiet).

Now just buy the base config from Apple and upgrade the rest yourself for much less.

Of all the things Mac Pro does and has, the fact that is is running cool and with NO NOISE or rattle of any kind is worth a lot to me.

People will easily pay (and I have) several thousand dollars extra for a quiet case, quiet hard drive enclosure, quiet power supply etc and still won't have as quiet system.

I built my PCs for ages, and spent up to $5000 and still could not have as well made system.

Macbook and Macbook pros are beautiful machines and a joy to use. Everything from the looks to the OS is well put together and to some of us that is worth the money.

I have not seen a single PC or laptop that I would want to buy at any price segment. Just look at those God awful keyboards with 15 letters written on each key, and non standard layouts, and the whole things creaks when you hold it. Thanks but no thanks.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

How many boards would the Mongols horde if the Mongol hordes got bored?

Off-topic, but shouldn't that first 'horde' be 'hoard'?

Re:The thing is still ugly

[PopeRatzo]

You might not understand why people purchase Apple's stuff, but at least understand that those of us who do are not retards

There's a marketing slogan:

"Apple Customers: We're not Retards"

Re:The thing is still ugly

[konohitowa]

It's not the checkmarked list of features. It's the implementation.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[PopeRatzo]

You forgot what it is that Apple sells. You just listed a bunch of parts. Apple sells an integrated interface to as many digital devices as they've come up with components for.

It's not just a computer, it's a Way of Life.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Orange Crush]

I'd buy it if not for that awkward looking track ball

I've got the G1, and actually rather like the track ball. It's helpful for selecting tiny links on webpages rather than having to zoom in and use the touch screen.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[BlackSnake112]

I thought a few people took apart the Dell 20 inch LCD and the Apple 20 inch LCD and they each had the same samsung screen. I don't remember seeing a check on the 24 inch ones.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[garaged]

About better than touch, please tell us any good alternative, I don't know anything besides PSP that can do what touch can do.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[plague3106]

I see you're familar with Apple products.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

Yes, and none of those were average phones. The iPhone and G1 are actually competing against the likes of the Motorola RAZR or the Blackberry phones.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[esampson]

I agree that I would like a 3.5" jack but at the same time I also understand why there isn't one. This is sort of the elegance in design AshtangiMan likes in the iPhone. Everything is done through a single port on the G1 rather than having to place multiple ports on it. If you want to use earphones other than the ones provided or plug it into your car stereo you can get an adapter fairly inexpensively.

I know that's not a perfect solution but then what is? It is six of one (single port with adapters) or half a dozen of the other (multiple ports).

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

Huh. Still, what do you make of the fact that the iPhone is the #2 selling phone in the US (not #2 smartphone, but #2 phone)?

I'm just replying to the guy who said the iPhone was just average... maybe average among smartphones (I don't deny that it isn't cutting edge in terms of features), but among phones in general, it's part of the cutting edge (including the G1 and N95/N96 class of phones)

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Oldstench]

I wouldn't mod you as 'insane' for liking the Zune. I have a Zune and like it quite a bit more than any iPod I've ever used.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Yeorwned]

That's a pretty good example of Apple fan intelligence. Buy overpriced MP3 players and defend them until their battery dies to make up the difference.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[leighklotz]

I'd buy it if not for that awkward looking track ball

Last time I was at the Silicon Valley electronics flea market I found a vendor selling plastic demo model cell phones for $1 each. None of them did anything, of course, as there was nothing inside. But plenty of people were pawing through the basket and looking at them all.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[EagleRock]

Yes, I fixed it. Thanks. I can see someone else likes Calvin and Hobbes. :-)

Re:The thing is still ugly

[cgenman]

By the rest of the world, we're still trapped in 10 years ago.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Jerry Beasters]

How about the people who enjoy it and aren't apple fans? How are you going to try to discount our opinions, because of course only yours matters. I don't own a single Apple product other than the iphone, never have and have no plans to. That doesn't change the fact that I love the iphone over every other phone, and it is cutting edge - at least as far as UI and other usability features go.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Jerry Beasters]

And how well do things like web browsing, maps, youtube, etc work on phones without a GUI as good and easy to use as the Iphone's? Looking at the competition, they don't do well at all.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Jerry Beasters]

Every single version of the firmware can be jailbroken quickly and easily with no damage to the phone. How is this not open to all kinds of applications?

Re:The thing is still ugly

[lorenzino]

People who buy Apple are constantly increasing and the variety is quite large.
From the designer, to the geek, the lawyer , student.
I would (and I was) and Apple boy, so until I understood my limit in freedom and I switched to
my home made desktop machine. With Ubuntu.
Apple limits my freedom by selling locked iPhone, iPod Touch (locked as in software via the Apple Store, or the Sim card, or iTunes (thank you banshee).
Couldn't buy a Mac Pro, too much, iMac, too litle, Mini too ..
Hackintosh is too much of a Frankestain to my taste.
Damn, even my AppleTv, had to unlock it to make it worth while .. you know, DivX, browser, just apps damn it.

And I repeat, people who don't know (and some don't care) still buy a lot of it and I see more and more, devs, advertising, normal people (two brothers)

I agree with your last argument.
I mean, that is how much I would pay no problem for a G1.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

Because it's not intended/reliable/Apple try to make it not work/not supported by the manufacturer/there are more developer-friendly companies out there/3G could at least not earlier be jailbreaked as easily but maybe it can now? If it can't your point fails since that's the one they are selling.

But why use crap even if it's somewhat fixable/may work if you are lucky? Apple still suck.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[peragrin]

I have tried to use windows mobile maps, gps several times, it is nothing but a pain in the arse. the iphone does well what apple always does well make things easy to use for the average person on the go,

The notable feature of the iphone isn't the hardware, but the softare which makes it a 100 times better than every other phone on the market. iphones get used more often and have out sold every other smart phone on the market for a reason. in the first quarter of the iphone 3g they are outselling RIM.

it is more than trend it is because you can use the iphone without being a geek. there are no complicated menus, shortcuts or keys to memorize.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

I don't know about that. I have Mac Pro and at the time I could not buy any other machine with same performance, fantastic design (and it matters to me: the cooling solution is brilliant, everything is accessible and above all, the machine is ultra quiet).

Back in the days it looked nice, but now it's quite mediocre / dull / boring imho. The design has never been good for space usage.

Take this case for example:
http://www.coolermaster.com/products/product.php?language=eu&act=detail&id=5366

And then a graphic card cooler like this:
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=147

And something similar for cpu, or water cooling which you can easily get within the same budget.

Q9550 is really cheap now, quad 2.83 GHz 12 MB cache, what does the current Mac Pro have?

DDR2 memory are more or less given away.

Similar HDDs and DVD-burners won't cost much at all.

HD4850 / HD4870X2 will kill the Mac Pro and still don't cost much.

Get a Corsair power supply. Feel free to tell me where mac pros performance is superior or where the cooling solution is better or where it's more affordable.

Now just buy the base config from Apple and upgrade the rest yourself for much less.

FB-DIMMs cost a lot, you can't get whatever graphics card but only special old slow ones for a huge markup from Apple, and you still pay a lot for the crap you get even at base configuration.

Of all the things Mac Pro does and has, the fact that is is running cool and with NO NOISE or rattle of any kind is worth a lot to me.

And you don't think the $1000 saved can buy you a better cooling solution?

People will easily pay (and I have) several thousand dollars extra for a quiet case, quiet hard drive enclosure, quiet power supply etc and still won't have as quiet system.

Uhm, VGA cooler 40 dollar or so, CPU-cooler something similar, then what? I think 100 dollar or so would be enough for a similar air cooled solution.

The case in question will make some noise FROM THE AIR MOVING THRU IT, but the fans are 23 cm at 1500 rpm so I doubt they make much of a noise, and the VGA cooler is passive, and if you don't over clock a passive CPU cooler probably works just fine in it as well.

Water cooling will of course be even more quiet.

I built my PCs for ages, and spent up to $5000 and still could not have as well made system.

Too bad you suck at getting good parts then.

Macbook and Macbook pros are beautiful machines and a joy to use. Everything from the looks to the OS is well put together and to some of us that is worth the money.

Yeah, I especially like how Safari use all my ram within a day, how applications crash all the time since Safari is using all RAM, how hot the machine gets.
How shitty the TN-panel is and the low 1440x900 resolution of it, how the keyboard makes marks on my screen.
The poor audio quality of the headphones output, the annoying super bright white diode keeping me awake at nights while the machine is at sleep.
How frickin' noisy the machine is since Safari and Flash for OS X sucks balls and how insanely hot the bottom of the enclosure gets since they have pressed it all together within 1 inch without sufficient cooling.
The poor quality of the build (excessive thermal grease and lose aluminium frame around the button releasing the screen.)
And how much bad configuration the machine was with 128 MB vram for an 8600m GT but still top of the line 2.2 GHz CPUs. No way Apple could had put an extra 30 dollar on getting a decent amount of VRAM in all models!?!

I have not seen a single PC or laptop that I would want to buy at any price segment. Just look

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

Dampen the case won't help much, but except that rather insightful troll :D

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

The Dells usually cost like 2/3s of the cost, and often have extras like better comfort settings (tilt, height, ..) and usb-ports and such.

I have no idea what Apple uses now, there are no cheap "small" IPS-panels, there exist PVAs but they suck for gaming. The few MVA and IPS ones which can be found are rather expensive. But as I said I think Dell sells a 28 or 30" one with decent specs for a quite affordable price. Not as cheap as a 22" TN one but still affordable. 110% color gamut to!

Re:The thing is still ugly

[lucifuge31337]

From where do you draw this opinion? Not trolling here....if the iPhone is average, that means most phones have it's basic functionality. "Most Phones" certainly do not include Blackberries, Qs, etc. The average (mobile) phone is more like a Razr or a low end Nokia.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

Feel free to check how all my posts are moderated now :D

Apple fanatics are so retarded and ugly. Can't handle the least of criticism even though the products sucks. Makes me feel so bad that I actually bough an Apple machine. Never again. I don't want to belong to the deaf and idiotic camp.

* Tell the truth about Windows? Get moderated up a point or so.

* Make excessive bullshit talking about Windows? Get moderated all the way up to 5.

* Mention the truth about Apple? Get moderated to hell.

* Lie together whatever crap about how superior Apple is? Get moderated both ways but in the end you still end up great.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

Depends on what you need.

Sony NWZ, Cowon D2, Cowon O2, Sansa Fuze will all have better sound.

D2/O2/Fuze will have a memory card slot and therefor more storage.

D2 and especially O2 will offer waay superior format support (O2 can kind of play anything, videos up to 720p if you want to, in divx or whatever.)

Neither of them require a special software to work.

All of them lack Wifi, but for instance Archos have players with Wifi if you want that, I don't care since I'd use it as a media player and now as a browser. Creative got players with Wifi to.

Touch got custom applications, more if you break it. But for instance the O2 have an SDK to and I doubt you have to pay for or sign up for some evil NDA to use it. Q5W from Cowon ran WinCE, I don't know what O2 runs but maybe WinCE to? All players which run WinCE should be quite easily to add applications to, or?

I think there will be lots of more developers for touch and iPhone than the O2 though, but it's still possible to develop for the O2 and as a portable media player it kills the touch multiple times.
(Cheaper, superior format support, bigger memory with extra SD-card, support higher res video with no transcoding, tv-out, better sound quality, ..)

If you want something really open for development and capable to play all I guess something like openpandora is for you, but then it's not really a portable media player longer ...

So well, depends on what you need.

Personally I just want to put whatever series and movies on it and play them with no work.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[g0at]

I agree that I would like a 3.5" jack but at the same time I also understand why there isn't one.

Of course. A port the size of a floppy disk would be almost as big as the phone itself.~

Re:The thing is still ugly

[mario_grgic]

Well, to each his own. I'm tired of looking for reviews, getting parts from zillion different sources, and then spending my valuable time building a franken machine that sucks in the end anyway. Install Windows on it and you have a shitty package...

My time is important to me now, and I'd rather pay someone else for a good product, and enjoy my life. Apple is giving me an affordable product that gives me what I need. Obviously not everyone sees the value, but life would be boring if we all thought the same.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless of how the trackball works, I'm still surprised that it actually works well.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

I too understand why there's no 3.5" jack -- 3.5" is the [i]whole phone[/i].

Re:The thing is still ugly

[SETIGuy]

I think you misread him... The proper slogan would be

"Apple Customers: we're retards who carefully consider the pros and cons but still are willing to spend $600 on a cellphone."

:) for the humor impaired.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[$random_var]

Half of marketing is figuring out what product to make. The other half, which you're talking about, is telling the world which you've made it. It is by far the more boring half. Is the iphone a technological revolution? No. It's all marketing. But it's damn GOOD marketing.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[mgblst]

I know that's not a perfect solution but then what is? It is six of one (single port with adapters) or half a dozen of the other (multiple ports).

Or, two ports, one for headphones, one for everything else.

If you argument relies on going to extremes, that is when you know you are wrong.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Barsteward]

Not really, iPhone still can't natively "cut and paste" so its still not really a smartphone, more of an enhanced mobile with pretty pictures..

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

raaaaaaaaaaaage

Re:The thing is still ugly

[N Monkey]

I still believe iPhone is all marketing, the product itself is just average. But that's only my opinion...

In that case, at least in the graphics department, the G1 is less than average. Assuming it is equivalent performance-wise to the HTC Touch diamond (since they seem to have the same chipset) then the in GLBenchmark, it would likely score around "99"

The iphone, OTOH, scores 527.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[mario_grgic]

You are kidding right? You are actually comparing that helicopter sounding fugly plastic case to the beauty, simplicity, silence and elegance of Mac Pro? Some people just don't have taste and I suppose you can't make them see :D.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

HTC Touch Diamond is a different phone, and a different OS, so to even SAY it has the same GL benchmark, you are talking crap. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

We are comparing to the RAZR here, which due to age and popularity defines average well enough for me.

The RAZR has cut and paste ability? Compared to the RAZR, the iPhone is definitely smart, with the ability to install apps, customize the phone, do email and web browsing, YouTube, etc.

In other words, by definition it is more like a computer that can make phone calls than a phone with limited web capabilities.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[smilindog2000]

The iPhone has that huge display, way better than the G1, and it's super thin, like a razor. I've owned an iPhone and now own a G1, so I'm no Apple fan, but the iPhone is simply better hardware.

There are good reasons iPhone is on top. However, I'm putting my money in Andriod phones from now on. The software is pretty comparable from an average user point of view, and better for developers.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[smilindog2000]

Yep, it's a damned fine phone. If it were also an open platform, it'd dominate forever. I guess I should be happy that Apple's too dumb to turn their dominance into a Microsoft-like monopoly. I'm pretty confident that Google Android will win out in the end, simply because it is a free open platform. Apple on the other hand, continues to insist on owning all the software and hardware.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[2nd Post!]

We will have to see how quickly Apple develops their iPhone! If this is anything like OS X vs Windows, Apple will always be one release ahead (in terms of UI and consumer features). If this is like OS X vs LInux, make that two steps ahead.

Apple vs Google should make for some excellent phones in 2009.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[aliquis]

I think it looks nice and I care more about what is inside anyway. I don't think it's plastic either.

Antec P190 are somewhat cleaner, but the holes for the fans probably don't work for you.

What about the Ultra 20 then?
http://www.cadbell.de/images/i1_hw_ultra20_lg.jpg

Re:The thing is still ugly

[mario_grgic]

Of all the Antec cases, I have used the Sonata ("silence is beautiful" TM) series of cases. However, they are not that sturdy and will rattle if loaded with 4 hard drives.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[esampson]

Multiple ports wasn't meant to refer to an extreme. Even 2 ports is 'multiple'.

Re:The thing is still ugly

[esampson]

Doh. I meant 3.5mm, obviously. :)

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Yeorwned]

Well, if you we're indeed not a fanboy, you would have not spent the time to defend your purchase. I hope you got the welcome fruit basket for the new club you just joined!

Re:The thing is still ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

You're out of your fucking mind. That trackball is the greatest thing about it. Makes navigating webpages a breeze. GTFO, moron.

Buy the Service plan.

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy because of the service plan; not because of "cool" technology.

Re:Buy the Service plan.

[grahamsz]

I think you are on the wrong site

somebody read it

[alta]

and tell me if it's because of:
1. Faster Network access of the device
2. Faster network the device is connected to
3. Faster processor
4. faster browser.

Re:somebody read it

[BobMcD]

3 and 4, per the conclusions of the author.

Don't worry, though, I'm sure some apple fan will be along shortly to debunk it.

Re:somebody read it

[dnwq]

From TFA:

Taking into account that we tested it against another 3G phone with a T-Mobile SIM in it, we believe that it's not a network factor, it's the G1's browser and processor being able to render pages much faster. So if you're looking for a fast Web experience on the go, we strongly recommend checking out the T-Mobile G1.

Re:somebody read it

[blowdart]

You can't really tell. The iPhone 3g and the G1 comparison were on different networks. They also compared against a Windows Mobile phone on the same network as the G1; and the G1 turned out faster.

That doesn't stop them concluding

we believe that it's not a network factor, it's the G1's browser and processor being able to render pages much faster.

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

TFA doesn't state, but I'd venture to guess that it's as much about RF performance than anything. CDMA technology (which 3G is based) has drastic penalties for poor RF performance, which can translate directly into data rates.

Re:somebody read it

[Locke2005]

That justifies the conclusion faster than the Omnia. But I see no indication that the iPhone was on the T-Mobile network. iPhones in the US are tied to AT&T/Cingular; what network are they tied to in the UK?

Re:somebody read it

[dnwq]

Gah! I read it again and what they actually did was run a T-Mobile Samsung Omnia against the T-Mobile G1 on silicon.com and barackobama.com. The G1 wins... And then they run the (O2-locked) iPhone against the T-Mobile G1 on eHam.net, and the G1 wins.

Great for the G1 and all... but seriously? CNET, you fail at comparisons. Different sites? For the love of the experimental method, why?

And there's absolutely no way to conclude that the G1's processor or browser beats the iPhone's on this test alone... maybe O2 just really, really sucks? Who knows?

If you really want to do a comparison... just unlock the damned thing and put in SIM cards from the same network!

Re:somebody read it

[goombah99]

The author tries to conclude it was not the network (offering no reasons) ans was the browser's "page load speed".

But this is mentally ill. The page load too 1.5 minutes versus 30 seconds. SO is he trying to say it took the apple iphone 1 minute to render the page?

this is absolutely illogial. Of course it's the network. They did not even check to see if the iphone was on a 2G or 3G network.

retards.

Re:somebody read it

[alta]

From the story, it sounds like the article doesn't even bother to consider a scientific method and all comparisons are apples to oranges (wow, multilevel pun)
Glad I didn't waste my time.

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

If they think it's the proc/browser speed why not just test over the same wifi network?

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, it is enough to RTFA. The iPhone was using O2, and the faster phone T-Mobile...

Re:somebody read it

[grahamsz]

o2 has 3g coverage for 80% of the country. I find it very hard to believe that the skipped "London" when they were doing that.

T-Mobile UK is delivering a 7.2Mbps connection whereas O2 are still at 3.6Mbps - either way i find it hard to believe that download speed is a major issue.

Quite why they didn't use wifi - i dont know

Re:somebody read it

[Toll_Free]

Or, website built to load faster on the Android browser.

Simple to skew these results.... Give markup language or use a language the IPhone will have troubles with.

I'd MUCH rather see how they stacked up with a computer tethered to them, to see total BPS throughput.

Oh, what's that, the IPhone won't tether?

Thank GOD I don't believe hype. I have an HTC based phone and LOVE it.

--Toll_Free

Re:somebody read it

[Enderandrew]

O2 I do believe, unless they are unlocked.

Re:somebody read it

[RiotingPacifist]

IIRC they are tied to O2 here. but because apple used to run the browser as root many are jail broken.

Re:somebody read it

[aliquis]

Why didn't they just unlock either phone and tested it on the same network?

Can the iPhone 3G be unlocked yet?

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they can test with another browser like opera in the iphone to confirm the crappy safari performance, if is not immoral, illegal or antiamerican to do so.

Re:somebody read it

[RiotingPacifist]

because the ability to get a page fast over a low bandwidth connection is important to most perspective buyers (ability to deal with compressed pages, pipelining etc) and at the end of the day if you live in the UK you will get iphones & G1s on their respective connections.

Re:somebody read it

[beelsebob]

The massive irony here is that both phones use WebKit to render pages, so unless there's a *major* version difference, the rendering engine is essentially the same!

Re:somebody read it

[beelsebob]

Well, it's got nothing to do with the rendering engine -- both of them use the same WebKit engine.

Re:somebody read it

[grahamsz]

The g1 can be unlocked. Apparently people have succeeded by calling and asking nicely.

Of course we could just go to germany or the netherlands since i think t-mo carry both phones there.

In fact, they seem like they'd have been the sensible choice for apple all round. They must have the furthest reaching network of anyone out there.

Re:somebody read it

[thedonger]

For the love of the experimental method, why?

they hosed up the experimental method right off the bat with the extremely limited scope of their test. 3 web pages?

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget variability and chance. The author didn't say anything about reproducibility. If you're intent on misrepresenting the situation, this is one of the easiest ways to lie with statistics.

On my iPhone 3G, barackobama.com loaded in 38 seconds the first time, which is nearly 20% faster than the 45 seconds Andrew Linn saw for the G1. On subsequent reloads, I got 58 seconds and 48 seconds, both of which are slower.

Re:somebody read it

[MsGeek]

I hate to say it, but maybe it's an embedded Linux vs. a cut-down Mac OS X issue. Maybe the version of Mac OS on the iPhone is not optimized enough vs. embedded versions of Linux.

Re:somebody read it

[mc900ftjesus]

The G1 has a 7.2Mbps HSDPA modem, the iPhone has a 3.2Mbps modem.

The 3G iPhone is behind every other phone in its price range in terms of hardware.

Re:somebody read it

[mybecq]

Or, you could just do the same test over WiFi to reduce the network bandwidth issue.

Re:somebody read it

[WCguru42]

I don't think the British would care so much about it being anti-american, but that's just me.

Re:somebody read it

[chrb]

Of course it's the network. They did not even check to see if the iphone was on a 2G or 3G network.

retards.

Given that both phones are network locked and provided on contract in the UK, for most people (who don't hack their phones) the phone and network are intrinsically linked, and they will judge the performance of one by the other.

But note the article update:

"we have now run a set of tests and concluded that, indeed, both phones load pages at a similar speed over Wi-Fi. This means there's little difference in processor or browser performance. Clearly the G1 is a superior Web phone to the Omnia, but it seems to be O2's network that is holding the iPhone back."

Re:somebody read it

[dgatwood]

T-Mobile UK is delivering a 7.2Mbps connection whereas O2 are still at 3.6Mbps - either way i find it hard to believe that download speed is a major issue.

They have since corrected their article in response to reader feedback to that effect. The update states that both browsers are roughly equally fast when tested via Wi-Fi, ergo the performance difference is caused predominantly by the network, not the phone's CPU performance. You can't compare browser performance when you are using two different networks. If you want to compare the devices' 3G performance, you'd have to crack one of them and run it on the other network. Since you can't do that, the best you can realistically do is compare browser performance, which can only be done realistically via Wi-Fi, not 3G.

Re:somebody read it

[dgatwood]

They have since corrected their article in response to reader feedback to that effect.

And by "to that effect", I was referring to your next sentence about Wi-Fi that I failed to quote. Oops. :-)

Re:somebody read it

[Achromatic1978]

Why? Until the average man on the street is able to use his iPhone 3G on another network, give me one reason it ISN'T a valid real world comparison. You're not going to be using your iPhone on T-mobile's network, you'll be using it on O2. End experience and perception. "Oh, it's not my iPhone, it's the network!"? Seems reasonable to me.

Re:somebody read it

[x102output]

my iPhone 3G tethers just fine. It's called "PDANet" and it turns your iPhone into a wireless router. It's awesome!

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

"Quite why they didn't use wifi - i dont know"

Yes you do but you don't want to admit it because you are either in denial or don't want to be labelled a Jesus phone zealot. It is the same reason they didn't unlock the iPhone and test it with the T-Mobile sim from the G1. Simply because the headline "G1 and iPhone browsers perform almost exactly the same under same conditions" is not going to get people flocking to it and viewing the supporting ads.

No doubt their follow up story will be about how two iPhones made prank calls to an ageing actor and made lewd statements about his granddaughter.

Re:somebody read it

[lucifuge31337]

Quite why they didn't use wifi - i dont know

Because that would have made the story a non-story.

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

cue the steve job cocksucking apple fanboi cunts who are going to bitch and moan now hahahah what now bitches!

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

The HTC device that is the G1 is has a cat 8 HSDPA modem (up to 7.2Mbps)

The 3G iPhone has a cat 12 HSDPA modem (up to 1.8Mbps), and not a very good one at that.

I fully expect the faster modem to be, well, faster.

Re:somebody read it

[ME-tan]

I work just around the corner from the C-net offices in Southwark, and walk around the whole area listening to internet radio (mp3/shoutcast) using 3g on my N95 so I know the 3g signal is pretty good. This is using T-mobile. I'm considering this device when I get my upgrade in December. The 02 signal WILL be pretty good in that area too as it is just on the other side of the river from the City of London (i.e. the city centre/finance district for the merkins reading this) If they wanted to test it on Wifi there is free wifi access at the Island Cafe which is a 2 minute walk from their offices, and do a rather nice full english breakfast to make the most of their testing. I use it to test the VPN software for my end users and naturally I have to have a full english when i'm there, it's only fair ;)

Re:somebody read it

[shutdown -p now]

Android has a different JS engine though, no?

Re:somebody read it

[Anonymous Coward]

One reason is that they might just get poor reception on one network in the particular place they did the test which might not be representative of the networks typical coverage.

Chrome vs Safari

[ekimd]

Is it any wonder given the speed difference between the two?

Re:Chrome vs Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that they're both based on WebKit, right? The same core rendering engine? The dramatic differences between Chrome and Safari are the shell (Chrome really scores here on Windows) and the JavaScript engine. Neither are likely to be relevant on the mobile platform.

Back to the desktop: sure V8 is faster than the engine used by Safari 3.1, but if you're comparing products that aren't yet complete you might want to look at a Safari nightly build. The SquirrelFish Extreme engine is even faster than the Chrome V8 engine in the Chrome beta.

Re:Chrome vs Safari

[__aamnbm3774]

You do realize that they're both based on WebKit, right?

Sure I do, they each have their own implenetations of Webkit. Much like how sorting an array can be done with Bubble Sort or QuickSort.

Apple = Bubble Sort in this case.

Re:Chrome vs Safari

[TheRaven64]

They're both based on WebKit, but there are some huge differences between the two WebKit branches. They have different JavaScript implementations, and they have completely different code in the platform-dependent layer. This layer is responsible for, among other things, network connections, URL parsing / handling, text glyph loading, and drawing.

Re:Chrome vs Safari

[Dog-Cow]

Webkit *is* an implementation. Of an HTML renderer, to be precise.

Of course it's fast, no one is using it

[Anonymous Coward]

Try putting all the current iphone users on their network and see how fast it is then.

Re:Of course it's fast, no one is using it

[RiotingPacifist]

really nobody in the uk is on T-mobile? quick somebody tell me as ive been using them for years.

How would it fare elsewhere?

[MikeRT]

The first time I saw an iPhone in person was in rural Virginia. It wasn't fast, but it actually worked out there. T-Mobile doesn't even really have any service out there, so I guess it really is just a moot point for a lot of people.

Re:How would it fare elsewhere?

[multipartmixed]

Look in the top left-hand corner(ish). If it says "3G", you have a 3G connection. If it says "E", you have Edge. Edge is roughly dialup. It works, but it's slower'n'piss.

I have a Rogers iPhone, I live in a rural area, and get 3G on one side of my house and Edge on the other. The difference is astounding.

Re:How would it fare elsewhere?

[Teilo]

Edge is roughly dialup.

BZZZZT! Wrong.

GPRS (2G) is roughly dialup. EDGE (2.5G) is more like slow DSL, in the 128K to 230K range. GPRS can actually do better than dial-up. It maxes out at 59K.

The G1 does all three, and it distinguishes between them on the display. Perhaps your iPhone doesn't.

Re:How would it fare elsewhere?

[multipartmixed]

Around here, you can't get GPRS without Edge, so I have no idea what the display says in GPRS-only mode.

And 110K per second -- what I've clocked my Edge connection at -- DOES feel like dialup. Sure, it may be faster on paper, but waiting 10 seconds for a google map to load is crazy slow to me. Hence the "roughly dialup" comment.

Of course, I could be time dialated, the last time I actually used a dialup modem for 'net access was 1999 or so.

Re:How would it fare elsewhere?

[MadMidnightBomber]

GPRS is roughly dialup (speed-wise) if (latency-wise) your ISPs modem bank was handily situated on the moon.

Re:How would it fare elsewhere?

[Anonymous Coward]

Though most users rarely see it, the iPhone distinguishes between all three, by showing a "3G" for 3G service, "E" for edge, a dot for GPRS, and (in REALLY bad areas or while on a 2G call) just no icon for no data service.

In my day, we had to use acoustic couplers over voice channels.
While walking uphill both ways in the snow.

Re:How would it fare elsewhere?

[rsmith-mac]

Around here, you can't get GPRS without Edge, so I have no idea what the display says in GPRS-only mode.

GPRS is a single large dot.

Oblig

[Anonymous Coward]

Results likely to be invalid as CNET's offices are outside of the reality distortion field.

phone or network

[phrostie]

but does this determine the quality of the phone or the network?

Re:phone or network

[Praxx]

but does this determine the quality of the phone or the network?

They test the phone against another T-Mobile phone too, with the same results (the G1 is faster).

Re:phone or network

[jcwynholds]

From the article:

{article snip}

Taking into account that we tested it against another 3G phone with a T-Mobile SIM in it, we believe that it's not a network factor, it's the G1's browser and processor being able to render pages much faster.

{/article snip}

I love my G1. It feels very fast. When 3g is up, it's almost as fast as a fat client on broadband. I'm glad someone did some tests.

T-Mobile's 3g network is still in the rollout phase, I've heard that most of it will be up (at least here in Cali) by the beginning of the year. That was from T-Mobile salesman, so some salt should be taken with that information.

The phone is really why I bought it, but I must give props to T-Mobile for not making people pay through the nose for the service. AT&T seems to want to fleece the iPhone buyers. Thanks to T-Mobile for at least trying to sell their service at a more decent price.

Re:phone or network

[16K Ram Pack]

Does it really matter? You can only buy the iPhone on 1 network in the UK, and only buy the G1 on 1 network in the UK. There's no way of having a different experience.

Re:phone or network

[Tony Hoyle]

The iphones browser does have speed issues, probably down to the processor. It seem to pause for a few seconds whilst loading pages, so for example I can bring up the bbc.co.uk page in under a second on this network in firefox, on the iphone over the same wifi it takes 15 seconds - I can't believe the data rate of the iphone is that poor (I expect it can't do a full 54g but I'm only on a 10meg connection anyway) so that leaves the processor.

If the M1 has a faster processor it's going to be faster.. there isn't much to argue about. Whether it's a better phone is subjective - I don't choose my phones based on browser speed :p

Re:phone or network

[Lars T.]

From the updated article:

Update: A previously published version of this article concluded that the G1's browser and processor were able to render pages faster than the iPhone's. In response to reader comments regarding a Wi-Fi test, we have now run a set of tests and concluded that, indeed, both phones load pages at a similar speed over Wi-Fi. This means there's little difference in processor or browser performance. Clearly the G1 is a superior Web phone to the Omnia, but it seems to be O2's network that is holding the iPhone back.

So a little further testing brings a complete about-face.

Re:No it's faster because:

[b96miata]

I can see how that would come into play at the CNET UK offices.

Re:No it's faster because:

[HateBreeder]

Too bad the tests were done in the UK...

(It's even in the summary for crying out loud...)

Re:No it's faster because:

[Anonymous Coward]

Tmobiles 3g network is teeny tiny in the US.

this was the UK. But even so your point still holds. Faster depends on where you are sitting. No one gives a crap about marginal peak speeds when its the typical speed you care about. Until 3G is everywhere this test is meaningless.

I actually quite like the trackball

[grahamsz]

I didn't think i would, but it's a nice touch.

Still by the time it's got a keyboard, a touch screen, some buttons and a trackball... it feels like it's perhaps over doing it.

Do you think it's ugly in person? Like my last HTC device, it's much nicer in your hand than in pictures.

The integration between the phone and third party apps is wonderful.

When a call comes in that isn't in my phone book, the whitepages app does a reverse number lookup and shows that on screen.

I can use shazam to identify music and then go straight to youtube or the amazon mp3 store to buy or listen to it.

I can scan the barcode of a book, compare the prices at online stores and it'll tell me which local booksellers have it and give me driving directions to the store (although it only seems to work for b&n)

Of course that's all mostly android and not the device.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[JCSoRocks]

You've just given more useful information about the phone than I've found in all the billions of hypefest articles on the 'net. It actually sounds really appealing now.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[mcgrew]

I can use shazam to identify music and then go straight to youtube or the amazon mp3 store to buy or listen to it

I don't get it - where does the music you're identifying come from? And why do you "buy" MP3s when you can sample the top 40 from the radio and legally download indie music for free?

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[Lemmy Caution]

The music comes from wherever you are - watching TV, on a bus, sitting next to some guy in his car who is playing his stereo too loudly, whatever. Shazam identifies music in your environment that you record. Pretty neat, really.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[grahamsz]

It records it from whatever radio station, coffee shop or party that it's being played at. It then analyzes the audio and identifies the band.

However rather than leaving you with a song id, you can buy it on amazon and download straight to your phones music library or you can hop over to youtube and find the video for that song.

I get my music from a mix of sources, sorry for not towing the slashdot corporate boycott line.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[Toll_Free]

Hey man,

Thanks for the info you shared. It's got more "meat and potatoes" than any press release or Luser admission I've read so far.

Really, it does barcode recognition? I know an ENTIRE company that would purchase them based upon that in and of itself (they use barcode on the manufacturing floor, and have to replace barcode scanners all the time due to shitty equipment / shitty employees sitting on them / losing them).

Again, thanks.

--Toll_Free

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[grahamsz]

It does it with the Camera and it's not great. It's fine if you've got a second or two to hold it steady and let the image focus, but it's nowhere even close to the performance of a proper barcode scanner.

I've done a lot of work for a manufacturing facility on the .Net compact framework and Symbols MC3900 platform. It's been absolutely rock solid and a dream to work with. The devices aren't cheap, but I'm impressed by them

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[afabbro]

I know an ENTIRE company

Whoooaaa! An ENTIRE company? Omigosh!

that would purchase them based upon that in and of itself (they use barcode on the manufacturing floor, and have to replace barcode scanners all the time due to shitty equipment / shitty employees sitting on them / losing them).

Because, of course, a cell phone is ruggedized for a warehouse floor.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[Dorceon]

It can also scan QR codes. I suppose that's because you couldn't sell it in Japan without QR support.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[Me! Me! 42]

Really?? that's incredible!!!
http://www.shazam.com/music/web/pages/iphone.html
BTW 2d and URL BC scanning apps are also available for the iPhone.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[esampson]

I think part of the reason that the articles don't give you these specifics is that he's referring to functions granted by third party apps. Shazam (the app that identifies music) and ShopSavy (one of the programs that will read bar codes) aren't made by T-Mobile/Google so for them to say 'the G1 lets you do this' might get them in some legal trouble. Also there's simply the fact that when these articles were written the apps might not have been available or the reviewers didn't know about them.

Think of it this way, when you see an ad or an article for a computer from Dell they won't tell you that you can play World of Warcraft on it. The writers have no idea if you own World of Warcraft and if you should it is pretty much assumed you can do so unless there are special circumstances (which the writers probably will tell you about). The G1 is much more like a computer than other phones. What you are able to do with it is limited by the hardware, which most articles and ads are happy to describe, and the software, which can be a big unknown.

In the interest of full disclosure I have a G1 myself and have had it for about a week and think it is overall the greatest phone design in the world right now. The shape is comfortable for use as a phone and it has all the hardware I currently want, like a real keyboard instead of a touch screen substitute. This is important since those features can't change. As for the rest of the design, yes, there are bits that irritate me. Currently the only bluetooth service supported is earpiece. I can't send audio from the music or video player to the earpiece. The main button on the earpiece does not begin voice dialing and I'm not wildly crazy about how their voice dialing works. When I am viewing where I am on a map I would like to be able to search for things around me like gas stations or bookstores and when it is tracking my location on the map I wish it would hold my location in the center of the map and smoothly scroll rather than moving to the edge of the map and then sliding everything over.

However these are all pretty petty annoyances for the most part and because the software is so open people are able to write replacement apps to fix these problems. Already someone has taken the existing mail app and modified it to include some left out capabilities like BCC.

Yes, it is possible to do the same thing with the iPhone but it is (as I understand it) considerably more problematic.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[e4g4]

Sure is. I have it on my iphone and have identified a couple of new (to me) bands that I'm very fond of that would have taken me forever to identify any other way. It's definitely one of the apps I don't want to be without, ever again.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[grahamsz]

I *think* this holds true, but i'm not completely familiar with the APIs yet.

The whole thing is architected around "intents" which are resolved between applications.

My understanding is that after identifying the music it hears, the Shazam application somehow queries the platform to say "I have details about a song, who can use these?" and then the platform lists the amazon mp3 store and the youtube viewer as candidates.

With that in mind, I believe someone could write an app that searches shoutcast playlists for stations that have played the band you just heard recently. When it got it's result, it would then be able to ask the platform which applications can handle mp3 streams and let the user choose how to connect it.

Feel free to correct me, I may be way off base but this seems to hold true.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[grahamsz]

But if you have a program that perhaps finds song lyrics, can you attach that to Shazam as one of the options to do with what's found? Or would you need to go back to the developer and have them do it?

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[mcgrew]

That sounds like an incredible app, haven't heard of it before.

I'm not boycotting all corporations; I had lunch from Ronald McFatass' dollar menu today (supersize me!). I am, however, boycotting the RIAA labels because of their propensity for stupidly suing the people who spend the most money of CDs, and I don't know if you'd call it a boycott but I'll never EVER buy anything again with "Sony" written on it anywhere after they rooted my computer with their XCP music CD rootkit that my daughter ran.

I want Sony in bankrupcy court. That damned rootkit cost me 175 in hardware and software (didn't have driver disks for audio and video, bought an Audigy and the vid card mfg wouldn't support 98 so I had to buy XP) plus an afternoon of my time installing XP.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[Toll_Free]

Yup.

They standardize on a single platform.

And most employees are MUCH more careful with their phones than they are with the barcode scanners.

Phones = out of pocket expense when they break them.

Barcode scanners = not out of employees pockets.

So, smart ass, anything else to add that might be actually helpful?

--Toll_Free

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[xaxa]

In the UK you can call 2580 for Shazam on any mobile phone. I've only ever called in nightclubs, so all I've ever done is wait until the call ends -- I don't know if they give instructions or something. The call ends after 30 seconds or so, and a few seconds after that you receive a text with the name of the song.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[Anonymous Coward]

I get my music from a mix of sources, sorry for not towing the slashdot corporate boycott line.

So long as the mix of sources heavily leans towards indie it doesn't conflict with /.'s general feel on the issue.

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[afabbro]

Phones = out of pocket expense when they break them. Barcode scanners = not out of employees pockets.

So then it's either

• "Welcome to Bigco. If you want to work here and make $13 an hour on the warehouse floor, please buy a $400 G1 phone out of your own funds before you start." Good luck with that.
• "Please be careful with these fancy new phones, like you were with the barcode scanners."

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[rickb928]

"sorry for not 'towing' the slashdot corporate boycott line"

I grimace when people mangle perfectly good metaphors, but I like your version better than the original in this case. In my mind's eye, I see you with a banner streaming behind you... "Another happy user, doing what I want..."

you go there...!

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[grahamsz]

D'oh - i usually spot things like that. That'll teach me to /. while i work

Re:I actually quite like the trackball

[Toll_Free]

Done trolling yet?

Cellular phones are provided to the employees free of charge, the first time. If warantee covers any problems, your good. If the warantee or insurance deems it a problem on YOUR side (dumping it in water, etc), YOU replace the phone, at your cost.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

Barcode equipment, OTOH, is a company expense, regardless. And because of that, typical 20.00/hour employees can't be bothered to take care of it. HOWEVER, as soon as it becomes part of their expenses after the initial "freebie", then employees tend to take better care of things.

I've seen personal laptops sales figures had that where taken EXTREMELY well care of. Those same guys COMPANY laptops typically had scratches, missing keys, etc. after so many hours of (ab)use.

Human nature, in a manufacturing environment. You don't have tech geeks doing barcode scanning of equipment leaving the floor (if you do, you are soon out of business, cuz China can do it WAY cheaper). Nor do you have idiots that can hardly handle a barcode scanner building out your infrastructure (something the Chinese can't do... until they perfect teleportation.)

--Toll_Free

Which does not help us in the states

[fermion]

In the states, T-Mobile has almost no 3G coverage outside of several major cities. And data coverage itself, which is often sparse west of the Mississippi, all but disappears when one gets to the middle United states.

All reports indicates that Google has built a very good smart phone OS. Now that it is open sourced we are likely to see a great number of smart phones of varying quality, some which will be very fast and put the propriety guys to shame on certain benchmarks, and with features the proprietary guys would never include. But until we see these phone, on all the networks, I do not see the G1 as anything as an experimental device on a small network. To see if Android really works, we have to see in work in the mass marketplace on a top tier network.

Re:Which does not help us in the states

[Urza9814]

Uh, AT&T doesn't have much 3G coverage either...

Re:Which does not help us in the states

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

I'm not sure that having most of Colorado covered with EDGE counts as "all but disappears".

In my experience, people sell T-Mobile's coverage short. AT&T is noticeably inferior throughout the Fort Collins and Boulder areas.

Re:WOOHOO!

[Anonymous Coward]

They already have. Please remain where you are, citizen.

Re:No it's faster because:

[Anonymous Coward]

What part of CNET UK do you have trouble understanding?

one key iphone advantage

[jollyreaper]

Apps written expressly for the iphone run faster than the java apps on the G1.

I can't really afford either phone right now which is just as well because I don't know which one I like more. The iPhone is slick, has nice integration but Apple also locks down 3rd party apps. The G1 represents more freedom but is newer than the iPhone and so has more kinks to work out by the time they get to the G2.

My biggest hope is not just that competition between these phones improves hardware features and functionality, they can also do something to break the backs of the mobile carrier monopoly. The profit-sharing for the iPhone store is as revolutionary as the phone itself, not to mention it's a far friendlier platform to develop for versus previous phones. But damn, the monthly bills on these phones is disgusting.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[Stan Vassilev]

Apps written expressly for the iphone run faster than the java apps on the G1.

Where's your benchmark to prove it? The truth is Java runs "on hardware" in most mobile devices. There's a chip which translates the Java opcodes to native ARM intructions without any delay or slowdown whatsoever. Naturally nothing less could be expected on a device so strained for power and speed.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[Anonymous Coward]

But damn, the monthly bills on these phones is disgusting.

This will never change as long as people keep paying for it. They don't have the patience, the will, or the imagination to make the carriers improve. They are consumers; suckers through and through.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[0xdeadbeef]

Apps written expressly for the iphone run faster than the java apps on the G1.

Prove it.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[0xdeadbeef]

Actually, the Dalvik VM doesn't JIT (yet).

Re:one key iphone advantage

[Teilo]

I love generalizations.

In the first place, Android apps are not Java apps. They are compiled to a different byte-code and run on a different VM, which is Android-specific.

Yours is the typical VM FUD. If it's a VM, it MUST be slower, right guys? Please. Look what native code has gotten the iPhone: no multi-tasking for custom apps, no garbage collection, developers saddled to an antiquated language (ObjectiveC). These things can be worked around, and there are lots of great iPhone apps, but native-code is not everything it's cracked up to be.

VM's are a GOOD thing, and the Android implementation is excellent. The system-wide event model is outstanding, allowing one to write apps that stay running, and do things, say, when you change locations (your physical location), flip the phone upside down, run too fast, receive a phone call, etc. The VM has made all of this much easier to accomplish, because the code is managed.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. Jazelle (the hardware ARM Java bytecode accelerator) is heavily restricted by license. I doubt they could use it in the open-source Dalvik VM, and furthermore it's not particularly portable since not all ARM chips support it (and definitely not non-ARM chips).

Now the Sun J2ME/CLDC family of VMs used in many phones does support JIT translation, but Google's going with Dalvik, which as 0xdeadbeef pointed out, doesn't have a JIT yet. I'd also imagine that Android apps are a lot more demanding than your typical cell phone app.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[binarylarry]

Also, Dalvik isn't Java, so Java hardware execution technologies (Jazelle, etc), aren't compatible.

JIT is the only way to get good performance with Android and Dalvik.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[0xdeadbeef]

JIT is the only way to get good performance with Android and Dalvik.

So why is the performance so good now?

Re:one key iphone advantage

[Dog-Cow]

No garbage collection? That's funny. When I wrote my app, I couldn't compile without it.

And Objective-C is head and shoulders above Java.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[chrb]

Android apps are not Java apps

That's a bit of a stretch - Android apps are written in Java, compiled to Java bytecode, and then converted to the Dalvik bytecode.

But anyway, yeah, VMs don't necessarily suck, like everything it depends what you do with them. How many times have we heard that Python was the language to use for rapid development, and that speed didn't matter because only 1% of CPU time is spent in the interpreter, whilst the other 99% is spent in custom C libraries. It's the same with Dalvik - the speed constrained Java classes like video decoding are written in C (or maybe even ARM assembler), and then called from the Java code. At the end of the day Flash is all over the web and its performance isn't great, so I doubt this is going to hold Android back. Having said that, I'm still looking forward to native C code running on Android, which I expect will happen once Skia and Dalvik are running on the Neo Freerunner. If you're interested in details there's a lot of info on android-internals.org

Re:one key iphone advantage

[IamTheRealMike]

Huh what? I think you're confusing the Objective-C shipped with Leopard, which does (finally) do GC, with the Objective-C you have to use in the iPhone which apparently does not. That's pretty shocking. I had no idea the iPhone SDK was that far behind but it appears to be true.

It's pretty ballsy to ask developers to do phone development without a GC these days. Manual memory management is just pain for users and developers. I guess the lack of multi-tasking makes memory leaks less of an issue because apps won't live very long, but on Android it'd be essential - you don't want the system to be constantly recycling leaky apps. You especially don't want apps to crash because they double-freed an allocation.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[Teilo]

No garbage collection? That's funny. When I wrote my app, I couldn't compile without it.

Come again? There is no automatic garbage collection in the iPhone. You, the developer, have to release memory. ObjC 2.0 has automatic garbage collection. The iPhone does not. Reason, according to Apple: resources.

The only garbage collection I know of in the iPhone, is in the WebKit Javascript core.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[geekoid]

"...translates the Java opcodes to native ARM intructions without any delay or slowdown whatsoever"

um, unless it violates the known laws of physics, it does slow down.

Not enough to matter.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[geekoid]

"If it's a VM, it MUST be slower, right guys?"

Yes, actually it must be slower. Enough to notice? not really but It is slower. However speed isn't the primary reason to use VM.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[Teilo]

I'm dealing with generalizations. In this case, the generalization is "G1 has VM. iPhone has Native code. Therefore G1 slower."

Of course, the iPhone runs on a single-core 620Mhz ARM11 core CPU.

The G1, on the other hand, has a dual-core 528Mhz Arm11 chip, PLUS a GPU.

Overall, the G1 has a lot more number-crunching power than the iPhone.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[binarylarry]

Well, its been optimized quite a bit.

I wouldn't say good performance, but I'd say decent for an entirely interpreted platform.

Re:one key iphone advantage

[chgros]

There's a chip which translates the Java opcodes to native ARM intructions without any delay or slowdown whatsoever.
Given the difference in level of abstraction between the java bytecode and the typical CPU instruction set, I highly doubt this is possible.
You might be thinking of a JIT (which, as others pointed out, doesn't even exist), but a JIT takes time to compile the bytecode down to native code (this usually means startup is slow)

Re:one key iphone advantage

[laddsky]

There's a chip which translates the Java opcodes to native ARM intructions without any delay or slowdown whatsoever.

Umm, no it doesn't

Not sure about the US...

[l0ungeb0y]

But I actually called AT&T and talked to the apple rep and BEGGED for an option to turn off 3G, it's beyond a joke. I'd rather have EDGE only, the 3G is so bad it actually causes my phone to take 3 or 4 times as long as my 1st gen EDGE iPhone to load a web page. Thats because the signal is next to worthless in podunk areas like DOWNTOWN FREAKIN SF and I have to wait for the phone to decide... "ohhh... this take too long... me switch to edge and retry"

I hope someone brings about a class action against AT&T for their shitty 3G network and against Apple for deceptive advertising. It's not twice as fast, if anything, it's twice as slow.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are having problems with the 3G network and want EDGE only - go into the network settings and switched off the 3G.

I thought this was /.!

Re:Not sure about the US...

[PeterChenoweth]

Why did you call AT&T? In an attempt to get the old $20/month data plan? Because it's trivial to disable 3G on the 3G iPhone....

Settings->General->Network

Where it says, "Enable 3G" slide the switch to "Off"

Problem solved.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Lally Singh]

Um... you can turn off 3G in the iPhone preferences.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

But I actually called AT&T and talked to the apple rep and BEGGED for an option to turn off 3G, it's beyond a joke. I'd rather have EDGE only, the 3G is so bad it actually causes my phone to take 3 or 4 times as long as my 1st gen EDGE iPhone to load a web page. Thats because the signal is next to worthless in podunk areas like DOWNTOWN FREAKIN SF and I have to wait for the phone to decide... "ohhh... this take too long... me switch to edge and retry"

I hope someone brings about a class action against AT&T for their shitty 3G network and against Apple for deceptive advertising. It's not twice as fast, if anything, it's twice as slow.

there's really not an option to go edge only on the iphone? :O

My G1 usually is set to edge network for battery, then 3g on the bus, and when it knows I'm home, turns on the wifi.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[thetzar]

Settings -> General -> Network -> Enable 3g [off]

What's the problem here?

Re:Not sure about the US...

[kegger64]

But I actually called AT&T and talked to the apple rep and BEGGED for an option to turn off 3G,

You mean like "Settings, General, Network, Enable 3G"?

Re:Not sure about the US...

[puto]

My first generation Samsung Blackjack hits the ATT 3g quite well in downtown San Fran. I do not live there but I work for a company on Market Street, and I am there a week at least once every two months and have had no issues with it. Same speed as Jacksonville, Fl where I am located.

My blackjack defualts to 3g if it is there, or edge if not. Or I can choose.

Sounds like hardware.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

Settings > General > Network > Enable 3G = Off

Sorry that was too much effort for you.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you posting on Slashdot if you can't figure out how to disable 3G or upgrade your firmware to fix the problem?

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can turn off 3G, idiot.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, you can turn off 3G yourself.

Settings->General->Network
And change "Enable 3G" to OFF.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Dog-Cow]

It is /.

I thought the mindless and idiotic bashing of a company that already has given him the exact option he wanted was a dead give-away.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[cgenman]

I think it is fair to say that 3G is more hype than substance. Comparing the Edge to 3G iPhone in descent coverage circumstances (Cambridge, MA, with lots of bars) the whole thing still leaves me ready to throw the thing out a window and go wardriving. Before the iPhone I had a 3G LG, and browsing on that also felt like dial-up.

The Jump from Edge to 3G is a jump from "Way too F*ing slow" to "basically too F*ing slow."

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

Go to your network settings on your iphone and select EDGE. Done.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[secretcurse]

Umm... Click the home button, click settings, general, network, and then slide the 'enable 3g' slider to off... How complicated is that? I do it all the time to conserve battery life if I don't actively need the 3g connection.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

Er what?... I do not have an iPhone but I swear I have seen a screen on one that allows you to switch off 3g....

Re:Not sure about the US...

[lucifuge31337]

Not sure about the rest of the world....but in the US out iPhones have a slider to turn off 3G in Setsings->General->Network.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[geekoid]

I understand you problem, it's frustrating.. If you promise to keep it quite I can tell you of a hack that can turn of 3g...for you, I'll only charge 1000 dollars.

Re:Not sure about the US...

[Darby]

Where it says, "Enable 3G" slide the switch to "Off"

Waaaaaaaaa my first gen iPhone doesn't have that option. I'm going to call TMobile and complain to them about that.

T-Mobile in NYC

[C_Kode]

I've been with T-Mobile since they were Voice Stream back in 2000 when I was living in Dallas. In Dallas they were great, but I've been in NYC since early 2005 and their service sucks in this area. Most of the time my Internet access doesn't work at all.

Re:T-Mobile in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had T-Mobile since 2004, and I lived in NYC all my life. The service is great for me. I've never had a single problem AND I get reception where verizon doesn't.

Re:T-Mobile in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

What did you do, sign a 3-year contract? Get new service!

O2 vs T Mobile 3G in one office?

[Eganicus]

Can't we use the same network and compare? At least that way we could rule out the network. Android is open source, or.... try Wifi? Not a very scientific article.

And the reason is....

[Anonymous Coward]

drumroll please! ...nobody has one yet!

compare it again when there are millions of these bogging down the network.

Cue Fanboys

[16K Ram Pack]

Here's your opportunity to ignore Occam's Razor and instead blame everything else.

Re:Cue Fanboys

[Anonymous Coward]

I Blame You!

Dubious results

[amasiancrasian]

I'm a little bit dubious. The 3G used in T-Mobile USA operates on an odd band that only T-Mobile USA uses. Most of the world operate on the standard bands, so it's still difficult to say if this is an apples to apples test. The iPhone is compatible with most of the GSM/UMTS networks around the world, while the T-Mobile phone 3G features are more likely to only function in the US. Somebody needs to investigate this.

Re:Dubious results

[Toll_Free]

The test was done in the UK.

Somebody DID investigate. You didn't comprehend TFA.

--Toll_Free

Re:Dubious results

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone is compatible with most of the GSM/UMTS networks around the world, while the T-Mobile phone 3G features are more likely to only function in the US.

The test was done in the UK. The G1 supports two 3G bands, the one used by T-Mobile in the US and the one used by almost everybody almost everywhere else (including T-Mobile in Europe). Which is why they'll also sell it in Europe soon.

Also AT&T uses a band which is not used for 3G/UMTS in most parts of the worlds. This is why the iPhone also supports two bands: AT&Ts (used I think eg also in Canada) and the Europe/Africa/Asia one.

Re:Dubious results

[athakur999]

FYI, the most common 3G frequency is 2100MHz. Neither ATT or T-Mobile uses 2100MHz in the US market. ATT uses 850/1900 and T-Mobile uses 1700.

Both the G1 and the iPhone 3G are capable of working at 2100MHz though, which means both phones can operate on the 3G network in most of the world.

Simply... awesome.

[s13g3]

My room mate, a senior T-Mobile Engineer, did a test just last night of his new G1 on T-Mo's 3G network versus his iPhone on AT&T's network and saw a full 150kbps difference between the two, with advantage going to the G1. On a later test they ran the G1 against the iPhone with both on T-Mobile's network and saw between a 50 - 75kbps difference between the two, again, advantage G1.

So far I'm rather impressed with the device. The trackball is very functional, easy to use, and seems well made. The device is fast and responsive, and while the screen may not be quit as big or pretty as the iPhone's, it's still plenty nice enough. Ok, it doesn't have multi-touch (as far as I can ascertain), but it's fast, very functional and I really really want one now. Web-browsing was a wonderful experience (first time I can say that about a phone), and did I say it was fast? Also the native console and SSH functionality was awesome, and I was very surprised by how well it represented my SSH sessions, including irssi - I must have one.

It really does look better in the hand than it does on photos. Ok, not quite as slick as the iPhone, but I'm also not one of those people who will shell out an extra $X just to get a pretty PC case when all I want is functionality - I don't need my mobile device to be sexy in an artistic way, I want it to be sexy in a functional, useful and powerful way. The teenage emo girls on 4chan can have the iPhone, it's G1 for me.

Don't forget open standards for the phone too, and the fact that with the time and effort you can make it do anything you want to, and not have to be beholden to what Apple thinks you should be able to do, or a glorified pager that is the Blackberry.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[16K Ram Pack]

Quite. I want to be able to write emails or text messages quicker than I can now. I've tried the iPhone and instantly hated the touch keyboard.

Some people may be happy to self-justify how good the iPhone is to be part of the herd/have a pretty phone, but I won't.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[mcgrew]

My room mate, a senior T-Mobile Engineer, did a test just last night of his new G1 on T-Mo's 3G network versus his iPhone

Now THERE'S an unbiased test!

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Teilo]

Yeah, because, as we know, T-Mobile employees have special SIM chips that enable secret Traffic Shaping protocols for T-Mobile branded phones.

Please.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[mcgrew]

Everyone knows that T-Mobile employees are totally unbiased, and that there is only one way and one way only to test a device.

Two words: tabletop fusion. Two more words: Korean cloning. Two more words: McCain Obama.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[foo fighter]

Why does it have a trackball?

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Teilo]

You put cold fusion and human cloning in the same category as trying out two different phones on the same network? Well then, more power to you. Carry on, Jeeves.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

Given how the speed of 3G varies with distance to the tower and other traffic within the cell, unless you're testing on the same network from the same spot those results are nearly entirely meaningless.

That said, I can well imagine the G1 being faster.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

You put cold fusion and human cloning in the same category as trying out two different phones on the same network? Well then, more power to you. Carry on, Jeeves.

In your original post you stated that the G1 was tested on T-Mobile's network, and that the iPhone was tested on AT&T's network. That implies different cell towers at different distances from where you tested from, and different utilization of the networks tested (more/fewer other devices within the same cell) - all factors that would influence the result.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Teilo]

And somebody cannot read, evidently.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

...and, yet, I doubt you would've complained if the results turned out differently. Please shut up.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[multipartmixed]

Did you just imply that senior T-Mobile engineers can't even afford their own apartments?

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

The post you're replying to left this out, but obviously the next part is to point out that testing both on a T-mobile network still doesn't give a complete picture.

"testing a T-mobile phone on a T-mobile network gives better results than testing an AT&T phone on a T-mobile network"

Huh, ya think? It's almost as if the T-mobile phone is optimized based on the T-mobile network, and the AT&T phone is not?

This is of course getting overly nitpicky, and the G1 is most likely faster for some reason, but the point remains that this is hardly a conclusive and unbiased test.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Teilo]

"testing a T-mobile phone on a T-mobile network gives better results than testing an AT&T phone on a T-mobile network"

And that is total BS. I've just spent the last year using an unlocked Blackjack (AT&T Phone) on T-Mobile. I bought it used to replace my Dash which had died. The Blackjack was more stable, but the GPRS/EDGE speed was identical. If anything, it felt faster on the Blackjack, but that's probably just a snappier UI.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[IorDMUX]

Ok, it doesn't have multi-touch (as far as I can ascertain), but it's fast, very functional and I really really want one now.

Sadly (for the rest of us phone developers), Apple went trigger happy on patents for anything that *looks* like a multi-touch touch-screen. There are ways around these patents, but it will take a while before you'll start seeing them spread beyond the iPhone.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

they ran the G1 against the iPhone with both on T-Mobile's network

Well that would be hard you see. T-Mobiles network uses these nifty little bands for 3g called AWS that range in the 1700/2100mhz bands. The iPhone can only use 850/1900mhz(for US 3g). So how your engineer buddy got an iPhone running on T-Mobiles 3g network seems a bit unlikely. Actually I know for a fact its impossible.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[lorenzino]

This is odd.
You see, I'm not sure I understand the subtle/or non-subtle meaning of what you said.
Yet, I find it funny in both cases and is just great.
But please, tell me, did you mean, that the card of the engineer with the secret traffic shaping had better performance because of that or you're saying that because of that he worst performance and therefore the G1 is much better than what he described ?

The please at the end is like ... not .. but that could be the funny part in it self ..

I'm sorry .. I should go install Intrepid.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see where the OP stated that the latter test was over the 3G network.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[naetuir]

Psssh.

Unbiased does not mean incorrect or fallible results. It just means they have something at stake. ...and the engineers? They're usually the first ones to cry fowl. It's the marketeers and the business people pitching their fancy frilly words that you have to worry about. Not to mention the PR people.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

As a matter of fact, you can select different speed profiles on the HLR. So yes... you can have different SIM cards with different speed settings according to the profiles in the HLR.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Lars T.]

Why does it have a trackball?

That's a GPS - gonad positioning service.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[mcgrew]

True, but one has to look at a non-unbiased test with more suspicion than if an uninterested party did the test.

Re:Simply... awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is because he did not drink the koolaid that allows users to appreciate all Apple's goodness

uhhh..

[Anonymous Coward]

I can name about 100 phones faster than a 3G iphone.....

Re:No it's faster because:

[Anonymous Coward]

Additional generic insult about the story being in the UK!

Seriously dotters, read the fucking previous comments first.

Re:No it's faster because:

[rugatero]

(It's even in the summary for crying out loud...)

Twice...

My bad,

[Anonymous Coward]

I forgot this is "early adopter" central.

G1 + WiFi

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's what I want to know: How much of the neat whiz-bang functionality of the G1 works just fine without a cellular data plan? It's got WiFi, there's wireless everywhere, why bother paying all that cash for a data plan you're unlikely to really need all that often?

Re:G1 + WiFi

[yincrash]

A lot of apps just ask for access in terms of "internet access" which doesn't care whether it is 3G, EDGE, or WiFi. So, you don't have to have a data plan. It even works on just the $5.99 unlimited plan according to some people. However, I think I get my value worth in NYC. All I need left is tethering...

Re:G1 + WiFi

[Teilo]

Even if you remove the SIM chip, all the network apps still work just fine on WiFi. GPS, etc., still functions.

Re:WOOHOO!

[EncryptedSoldier]

who actually modded me down 2 for that as flamebait? I like google, it was a joke, jeezzzzzzzzz

Re:No it's faster because:

[RiotingPacifist]

Until 3G is everywhere this test is meaningless.

this was the UK

We have pretty good 3g coverage, hell its probably just the 1 satellite up there anyway.

You all fail at controlled experiments.

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost everybody here is comparing phones on different networks. The only way you can say anything useful about the phones is if they're using the SAME NETWORK.

"3G" is not a bandwidth value. Neither is "Edge". For both of these, data transfer rate depends mainly on how far you are from the cell company's antenna, and how many walls and trees are between you and it.

Unless those factors are identical for both phones, your comparison says nothing about the speed of the phones, and nothing useful about how the phones will behave for someone else. The only person here who's made a sensible comparison is dnwq, who said

If you really want to do a comparison... just unlock the damned thing and put in SIM cards from the same network!

Re:You all fail at controlled experiments.

[chrb]

Almost everybody here is comparing phones on different networks. The only way you can say anything useful about the phones is if they're using the SAME NETWORK.

It depends what you want to test. Most (probably >99%) people are incapable of unlocking their phones and switching to an alternative data SIM, and since these phones are locked to a single network, most people in the real world are going to evaluate them together as a single product.

If you are a phone manufacturer, and you sign an exclusive deal with a single cellular provider, it's hardly a big surprise that most people will evaluate the complete experience that they receive from the combined package, rather than fiddling around trying to unlock their phone and obtain an alternative SIM.

Re:WOOHOO!

[Anonymous Coward]

no, but they are building an airforce...it's a bird, it's a plane, omfg it's a googlebomb!

AT&T throttles 3G for iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps because AT&T has chosen to throttle down 3G access for iPhones to only 1.4Mbps?

Re:AT&T throttles 3G for iPhone

[dunkelfalke]

how can at&t throttle down the 3g access of t-mobile uk?

Re:WOOHOO!

[megamerican]

Google HQ is right next to Moffett Federal Airfield, which used to be an active military base. It is now used by NASA Ames, which is a giant research facility. Earlier this year Google announced a joint venture with NASA and are leasing space inside the AMES research facility. The founders also pay a lot to have their private commercial jet to be housed there. I find it interesting that the 7th Psychological Operation Group is also stationed at Moffett Field.

So Google is already working together with the military and military industrial complex very closely in an airbase that could easily become active at any time.

Your joke wasn't as far off as you thought! Pity you were modded flamebait.

FreeBSD

[iphone luvs ssh]

C'mon guys, do I need to point out that this OS is a BSD derivitive.. excuse me its way past my bedtime and I don't want to shout at anyone. Proof of browser speed's?? network speed's?? we see this in Intel v AMD and Nvidia V AMD all the time. How about some real world benchmarks.. and I'm not talking about those GPU based rort for this fan boy stuff... BAH.. Go Obama... from Oz land ;)

Re:WOOHOO!

[EncryptedSoldier]

that is some scary 5h1t!

It's about more than a feature list

[sjbe]

Other than the lightsaber app, that's pretty standard on most high-end phones. I pay a lot less for my Nokia N95 8GB, and on features alone it beats the iPhone.

My primary phone these days is a Nokia E70. Nice phone overall and I like it. The features are roughly identical to my wife's iPhone 3G - but only if you are just doing a checkbox feature comparison. Technically it has the "same" stuff but not all of it is usable. In actual usability there is a pretty wide gap for most people. Why? The interface.

The interface on Nokia's S60 phones just sucks in comparison. Yes, a geek like me (and presumably you) can make it work just fine but ONLY a geek like me would bother. Getting an iPhone configured is a breeze by comparison - not to mention using it. It took me hours of navigating obscure menus to get my E70 working "properly" and I've had a series of Nokia phones for 10 years so I'm plenty familiar with their interface. The physical keyboard is nice but the iPhones virtual one works adequately. Particularly galling were:

• the poorly considered default options
• the need for special headphone adapters to use the MP3 player
• the need for special Nokia specific cables
• the lack of attention to the interface in many of the applications including the MP3 player and the camera

By comparison, setting up my wife's iPhone took 30 minutes and I had never held one before hers. Is the iPhone perfect? Heck no, but I've spent quality time with plenty of S60, Blackberries and Treos and for 9/10 people I'd recommend the iPhone over any of them if they have a choice. It's just less hassle. Fortunately it seems to have gotten the handset manufacturers off their rear ends so we are seeing a nice wave of innovative new phones coming out.

Re:It's about more than a feature list

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up. "Generic phone X has the same features" is missing the point completely.

Re:It's about more than a feature list

[Grishnakh]

I agree completely. As a technically-inclined person, I may be able to get along with a hard-to-use phone, but a typical nontechnical person can't. My wife also has an iPhone 3G, and loves it. It took me no time at all to figure out how to use it (she still needs my help sometimes). I tried out a Blackberry Pearl when we bought her the iPhone, and it was horrendous. Sure, it has the features, but actually figuring out how to use them is a real endeavor on that device. The Pearl was $100 cheaper than the iPhone, so the choice was easy (plus, the iPhone's screen is much larger). $100 for a device that's easy to use is money well spent.

As you said, the iPhone isn't perfect, but at the time it came onto the market, it was a giant leap over all its competitors, and still is. This doesn't mean some other company won't be able to come up with a device that's even easier to use and better featured than the iPhone, but it sure doesn't seem like they're trying much.

Re:It's about more than a feature list

[Kazin]

Man, I'm so glad I ditched my E70 for a T-mobile G1. WAY better phone overall. Many times faster too.

I'll ignore the part where I can't check my self-signed-certificate-TLS-only IMAP/SMTP mail with the G1. I'm sure they'll fix that. Guys? Please?

(anyone want a used E70 with a slightly sticky joystick?)

Re:No it's faster because:

[halivar]

Dude. That is so retarded. Every American knows we beat Englind in the Revoution, and so they're, like, a tortilla of the United States of USA.

I learned it in Allamance County public schools, NC.

Featuritis is not (necessarily) a Good Thing

[sjbe]

It's really nothing special, just more idiot-proof and much less flexible.

Flexibility in a mobile device is a two edged sword. It might give you capabilities but the designer isn't careful the cost is usually a degradation in usability. I have an S60 based phone and my wife has the iPhone 3G. I'm a geek with plenty of technical skill and if given the choice today I'd take the iPhone over my Nokia without a second thought. It's just easier to use for the stuff I actually use a smartphone for. All that "flexibility" bites Nokia in the ass when it comes time to actually use the device since they paid (IMO) so little attention to how people actually use these things.

CNET's Update Negates Their Findings - Phones Same

[laoudji]

Turns out it's an O2 network issue: From TA: "Update: A previously published version of this article concluded that the G1's browser and processor were able to render pages faster than the iPhone's. In response to reader comments regarding a Wi-Fi test, we have now run a set of tests and concluded that, indeed, both phones load pages at a similar speed over Wi-Fi. This means there's little difference in processor or browser performance. Clearly the G1 is a superior Web phone to the Omnia, but it seems to be O2's network that is holding the iPhone back."

TMobile reduce res of images on 3G

[jobsagoodun]

I've tested the same web-site on wired & 3G tmobile connection, & tmobile reduces the (byte) size of all image files on the fly in their transparent proxy. Might improve performance a tad! A proper test would use https as this cannot be interfered with in this way.

Informal Counterpoint

[slimjim8094]

I have the WifiRouter (jailbreak) application on my phone and have a tested 1.4MBps while moving. My Motorola RAZR of a year or two ago (also HSDPA, and explicitly supported tethering) has the same performance in the same area.

So although I know the article says it's due to rendering speeds (which are noticeably bad on the iPhone at times), some people have been bitching about the network. It's not the network, or network hardware.

Re:Simply... bullshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

On a later test they ran the G1 against the iPhone with both on T-Mobile's network

And Im pretty sure your T-Mobile "engineer" buddy knows that T-Mobile uses the 1700/2100 mhz band for 3g, right?? Which means its impossible for an iPhone(850/1900mhz) to run on that said 3g network.

So that leads me to conclude that you are either 1 of 2 things; a liar, or an idiot.

Re:WOOHOO!

[Chris Burke]

You know that actually sounds like a great idea. Their army would be clean and efficient and scalable. We could send them to Iraq to replace our poor beleaguered and exhausted troops, and when the Iraqi government says they want the Google Army to be subject to Iraqi laws, we could just tell 'em "Hey, it's still in beta!"

Plus I'd love to see what uniforms they'd wear on various holidays.

Helium

[Mathness]

The G1 loaded Web pages almost twice as fast as the iPhone's.

If the same could be applied to voice communication, even an angry boss would be unintimidating with his, now, high shrieky voice.

Sprint EVDO-A Beats Both, Handily,for Total Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been enjoying Sprint's EVDO-A on my HTC Titan WM for a while now. The network speeds seem to be a low multiple of AT&T's "3g" service, maybe 1 Mbps down and 500 up (but the upstream seems to vary wildly between 100 Kbps and 700 Kbps). It's fast enough to put the phone into router mode, share out the connection as WiFi, and then download high-availability torrents through it *while* doing VOIP. If I do that, and bypass the phone's weak CPU, the bandwidth actually rises to occasionally approach 2 Mbps. This is probably a sad reflection of the unpopularity of Sprint's network relative to the investment Sprint put into it.

Re:No it's faster because:

[Ant P.]

Maybe he has the same problem I do - every time I see "CNET" it gets interpreted as "CUNT"

Who gives a shite about speed, it's the coverage..

[egnop]

that's mostly the issue...

...but has concentrated awesomeness

[aurispector]

I'm paying tmob about $60 a month for a g1 @$179 with 300 min & 400 txts compared to $55 for a free razr from at&t with no data plan at all. I looked at the data plans and tmobile was definintely cheaper for comparable voice/text/data features. This is FAR more than I use on average and the unlimited data was the kicker for me - there's no way I would want a pay per data plan. I live and work smack in the middle of a tmob 3g zone so coverage basically isn't a problem.

There was a review that pigeonholed the G1 to tech geeks since it isn't fully outlook compatible for business users and was harder to use than an Iphone. This is basically true, but feature wise the G1 is concentrated awesomeness that makes my geek soul feel all warm and tingly. Android still has quite a few rough edges so be prepared to fiddle a bit. Also with all the radios on the battery sucks more juice than a cheap hooker. Still, this is a device that replaces my cell phone, gps unit and music player and also gives unlimited web access. The individual features may not be revolutionary but having it all in one package rocks.

Watching Google maps updating live satellite images while driving is amazing and I still giggle every time I scan a barcode.

The upshot is that I can't believe how much more functionality I'm getting for about $5 more a month. At&t had great coverage but that's it.

o2 vs tmobile?

[CreepingEye]

also, how many more people are on O2 than tmobile? Either which way... i love my iphone,,, but kudos to the tmobile people:)

I want a phone that can do this.

[tigueraje]

I'm on the Sprint network using the HTC Touch and the HTC Mogul. With the Mogul I'm able to use an app called WMWifiRouter (http://wmwifirouter.com/)which turns my phone into a WIFI-router and lets me share my EVDO connection with more than one device. I have tried to switch phones a few times but at the last minute, when I think about my friend's pretty Ipod touch, my other friend's elegant Iphone, and my own laptop, all being able to watch streaming video (ALL on my ugly and clunky Mogul's connection) I just say: NOT A CHANCE!.

Re:Sprint EVDO-A Beats Both, Handily,for Total Spe

[tigueraje]

I'm on the Sprint network using the HTC Touch and the HTC Mogul. With the Mogul I'm able to use an app called WMWifiRouter (http://wmwifirouter.com/) which turns my phone into a WIFI-router and lets me share my EVDO connection with more than one device. I have tried to switch phones a few times but at the last minute, when I think about my friend's pretty Ipod touch, my other friend's elegant Iphone, and my own laptop, all being able to watch streaming video (ALL on my ugly and clunky Mogul's connection) I just say: NOT A CHANCE!.

The thing that really gets me about the iPhone

[dkixk]

I've got one of the 3G iPhones and I like an awful lot about it, especially the multi-touch screen and accelerometer. I also like how seamlessly it integrates with Mac Mail, Address Book, etc. To be honest, I'm really not all that concerned about the speed of page renders or downloads. Of course, it always nice for things to run faster, but having the right features which are "fast enough" is more important.

So the thing that really pisses me off about the iPhone is the way that there are so many features lacking because Apple/AT&T artificially cripple the phone. I can't believe that it doesn't support MMS messaging out of the box. That's just insane. Everytime a friend sends me a MMS, it gets treated as if it were a legacy phone, with an SMS message pointing me at a web-site from which I can view the image. Legacy treatment on fscking iPhone. Another thing I find severly annoying is that I can't use the iPhone's internet connection from my laptop unless I'm willing to jail break the phone, which carries it's own problems what with Apple trying to brick the phone with every update if it's broken free.

It is this which is peaking my interest in my coworker's new G1 than anything else. And that's too bad, because I really like a lot about my iPhone but it seems like Apple/AT&T want to drive customers away with bad business decisions.