New Xbox Experience Goes Live

Today, Microsoft launched the New Xbox Experience for Xbox Live. The list of new features includes the streaming of TV shows and movies through Netflix, the ability to install games to the HDD, an avatar system, and the Community Games platform. The launch itself was shaky at first, but most issues have been smoothed out. Sony-owned Columbia Pictures immediately pulled their movie selection, though it may return when a licensing deal gets worked out. Halo 3 developer Bungie pointed out that not all games will run faster when installed to a HDD because of the way the games already interact with the drive.

Comments

it's pants

[maudface]

The Blade system worked fine, having played with the new one for a little while I have to say it appear to blow goats, it's not particularly intuitive and it doesn't make brilliant use of screen real estate. The mii creation rip is reasonably well implemented though, I managed to make someone who looks remarkably like myself, which I've never managed on a wii.

Re:it's pants

[Frac O Mac]

The old blade system has been turned into the new guide menu, just with all the useless extras stripped out. While I myself don't like having to relearn where everything is, I think its an improvement overall.

Re:it's pants

[maudface]

Fair enough, I rarely use my 360 these days so I found it only to be an annoyance while trying to navigate to my arcade games, I just liked the simplicity of the blade system and how I didn't feel like I was having media thrown at me.

Re:it's pants

[wild_quinine]

The Blade system worked fine, having played with the new one for a little while I have to say it appear to blow goats, it's not particularly intuitive and it doesn't make brilliant use of screen real estate.

The blade system always looked like a bunch of building blocks for the under fives. From day one it has been cursingly ugly. So, whilst it 'worked fine' I don't think that was quite enough. Not when the competitors' alternative looks and drives like an Aston Martin.

The new system is much more sleek, and appealed to me instantly. I do share your concern about screen real estate, though. Whilst it doesn't cause me any problems, I'm not sure I would be saying that if I was playing on a standard def screen.

I managed to make someone who looks remarkably like myself, which I've never managed on a wii.

So did I, but my wife started to cry, so I changed it to look like someone else. There's a t-shirt for your avatars with the Xbox 'green circle of light' on it. I know this is kind of an obvious comment, but I genuinely looked for the red one to go with it, before realised why it would not be there.

So iconic is that red circle, that I consider its presence to be missing in xbox related merch.

Re:it's pants

[iainl]

Really? It's precisely the navigation to Live Arcade games that's my favourite improvement. The old system used to take an age to display the full list once I got past ~30 games - the new system is almost instant.

Re:it's pants

[neokushan]

Not to mention that there's now a dedicated "quick launch" option in the new guide so you can quickly get to all your Arcade games from ANYWHERE.

Re:it's pants

[adam.bower]

Interesting, as we can't get any of the crappy xbox avatars to look like anybody we know, in all honesty I really dislike them and it annoys me that Microsoft are forcing me to have an avatar that looks nothing like me, I'd rather have the choice of using non-human types or nothing. This is compared to the 10 Mii's we have on the Wii which all look very much like the real world person they are supposed to represent.

Re:it's pants

[D4MO]

It didn't scale.

Re:it's pants

[bigman2003]

After using NXE for a few hours, it was obvious that the entire system is just better. The navigation, the organization, the amount of information displayed....everything is better.

Despite what the first poster said, Arcade games are easier to get to. AND, you can remove demos/zero gamerscore games from your history. Just that alone is worth the download.

Re:it's pants

[bigman2003]

Exactly.

I was tired of digging deep down into menus that no longer made sense.

The original interface was created before the Marketplace expanded.

It was time for a change.

Re:it's pants

[darkcmd]

I agree with the comment on the Red Ring being an integral part of the community, I've went through 4 systems due to RRoD.

Re:it's pants

[Anonymous Coward]

It's new. Therefore, it's lousy and it sucks because I have to learn something new. I hate it and it sucks and it's new. Why doesn't everything stay the way it was it sucks. It changed and it's new so it sucks. I don't own an XBox. HATE

Re:it's pants

[Anpheus]

Yes, it's that good.

Re:it's pants

[orclevegam]

The layout and navigation is better, but the actual aesthetic and use of screen real-estate blows. I'd be much happier if they went back to the look and feel of the old blade system (large flat panels to use the most of the screen instead of those silly psuedo-3D panels with all that dead space around them), but kept the overall layout of NXE. There was absolutely no reason to switch to the stupid 3D panels to display what is ultimately 2D information, it's an absolute waste of space and doesn't even look particularly good. I'm also pissed that the themes which used to offer a little variety from blade to blade have now been reduced to what is essentially a static wallpaper.

Re:it's pants

[nschubach]

Apparently the "can't take a joke" crowd is out in full force looking at the modding that happened.

Re:it's pants

[MBraynard]

That's a great idea for an ironic T-shirt. I will pass it on to one of the people I know who has an ironic T-shirt company.

Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Tei]

It seems games already use the HD, if exist:

"In a post on the Bungie forums, engineer Mat Noguchi explains that the slower loading after a full HDD install is a direct result of how the game was designed to use the HDD in the first place. "When Halo 3 runs, if a HDD is present, we copy maps from the DVD to the utility partition on the HDD," says Noguchi. "And as a result, it means that even if Halo 3 is already installed to the HDD, it will still copy maps to the utility partition."

The problem is games that still try to use the harddisk ....again. For a PC game, this looks like really easy fix, but I have no idea for a console, as a console is locked down hardware ..for the user and the game dev.. I don't know.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[KDR_11k]

The 360 automatically downloads patches for games, not a big issue. I guess MS will allow devs to patch stuff that doesn't work well with this NXE stuff.

I like the improvement to the load times in EDF2017, the menu had annoying load times before but they're almost zero with the install. Not sure if level load times have really improved much though.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Anonymous Coward]

remember, kids: when your mom says do not use the HDD as a cache, it surely meant it!

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Hasney]

Bungie already said in their comment from one of the linked FA's in the summary, that "The risks of [patching Halo 3 to make it faster when installed] and the resources required has to be carefully considered against what could really be a rather insignificant change to the player experience"

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Dorkmaster Flek]

Actually, the problem is that even though the game is "installed" to the HD, it's not really installed. It's just a disc image copied to the HD and mounted so the game thinks it's accessing the disc, same as before. This way, no games have to change their code to work this way. The downside is the case of Halo 3 (and some other games) where they used the HD already. Now it's using the HD as a "disc" and for caching, which wouldn't be necessary if they knew they were running entirely from the disc. There's no easy fix to make it work in both cases.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[CambodiaSam]

I gave this a try with Call of Duty 4. After installing it to the HD the most noticeable difference was not with performance, but that the jet engine noise of the DVD reader was gone.

That improvement alone is worth it for me. Has anyone tried installing GTA4 to the HD? That's a game that might have a significant improvement in performance.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Hal_Porter]

Bungie has demerged from Microsoft and Halo 3 is very much a Microsoft project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie#Independent_company

Halo and buyout

In 1999, Bungie announced its next product, Halo, as a first-person action game for Windows and Macintosh.[14] Halo's public unveiling occurred at the Macworld Expo 1999 keynote address by Apple's then-interim-CEO Steve Jobs (after a closed-door screening at E3 in 1999).[14]

On June 19, 2000, soon after Halo's preview at Electronic Entertainment Expo 2000, Microsoft announced that it had acquired Bungie Software and that Bungie would become a part of the Microsoft Game Division under the name Bungie Studios. Halo would be developed as an exclusive title for the Xbox. The reasons for Bungie accepting Microsoft's offer were varied. Jones stated that "I don't remember the details exactly, it was all a blur. We'd been talking to people for years and years â" before we even published Marathon, Activision made a serious offer. But the chance to work on Xbox â" the chance to work with a company that took the games seriously. Before that we worried that we'd get bought by someone who just wanted Mac ports or didn't have a clue."[15] Martin O'Donnell, who had joined Bungie as an employee only ten days before the merger was announced, remembers that the stability of the Xbox as a development platform was not the only benefit.[6] Around the same time, it was discovered that Asian versions of Myth II could entirely erase a player's hard drive; the glitch led to a massive recall of the games right before they shipped,[7][8] which cost Bungie nearly one million dollars.[8] O'Donnell stated in a Bungie podcast that this recall created some economic uncertainty, although accepting the offer was not something "Bungie had to do."[6] Seriopan and Jones had refused to accept Microsoft's offer until the entire studio agreed to the buyout.[8]

As a result of the buyout, the rights to Oni were sold to Take-Two Interactive as part of the three way deal between Microsoft, Bungie and Take-Two; most of the original Oni developers were able to continue working on Oni until its release in 2001.[16] Halo: Combat Evolved, meanwhile, went on to become a critically acclaimed hit, selling more than 6.5 million copies,[17] and becoming the Xbox's flagship franchise.[18]

Halo's success led to Bungie creating two sequels. Halo 2 was released on November 9, 2004, making more than $125 million on release day and setting a record in the entertainment industry.[19] Halo 3, the final installment in the Halo trilogy, was released on September 25, 2007 and surpassed Halo 2's records, making $170 million in its first twenty-four hours of release[20] and becoming the most pre-ordered game in history.[21] Bungie also established partnerships with Ensemble Studios and Wingnut Interactive to produce two additional Halo titles, Halo Wars and Halo: Chronicles respectively.

Independent company

On October 1, 2007, a mere six days after the release of Halo 3, Microsoft and Bungie announced that Bungie was splitting off from its parent and becoming a privately-held Limited Liability Company named Bungie LLC.[22] As outlined in a deal between the two, Microsoft would retain a minority stake and continue to partner with Bungie on publishing and marketing both Halo and future projects, with the Halo intellectual property belonging to Microsoft.[23] Although non-Halo projects in the future are unknown; Bungie has stated that Halo 3 is probably not the last Halo game they will make, and that Microsoft is still working with Peter Jackson of Wingnut Interactive on Halo: Chronicles.[24] No other projects have been officially announced; while Bungie planned on an announcement at E3 2008, Bungie studio head Harold Ryan announced that the unveiling was canceled.[25] Since then, Bungie has announced one new project, a prequel to Halo 3 entitled Halo 3: Recon. Community manager Brian Jarrard has stated that several projects of varying sizes are also in various stages of production.

Reading between the lines I'd be surprised if Bungie would do any more work on Halo 3.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Hasney]

I'd be surprised if they didn't, especially with a real Halo sequel from them not coming in some time.

Their relationship with the Halo community has been excellent and while I don't forsee them making a patch for HD loading speed improvements, I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least new maps in the future for Halo 3.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[superstick58]

The noise issue is a definite draw. In fact, the update information from Microsoft explicitly states the reduced noise as being a direct benefit for copying to the hard drive. Probably the biggest impact. Plus... would running on HD lower heat usage due to not using the disc drive? Maybe it will improve product life.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3 games regularly get downloadable patches, I'd be surprised if the 360 didn't get something like this. But the spanner in the works is the rather suspect decision from MS to not include a harddrive as standard. The many maybe getting screwed over because of the cheapskates buying the arcade model.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[drhemi]

I've installed GTA4 to the HD and didn't notice any improvment in load times. It was nice to be able to play without it reading the DVD though.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[not already in use]

I also tried with COD4 and that was my reaction as well - the noise reduction alone is worth it. I will be testing with fallout to see how it affects load performance.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[shlepp]

There's no pausing, or scenery pop-up's anymore, it plays EXACTLY like the ps3 version does, the initial loading of the game when you start it up is the same no matter what system or drive its played from, that's just the intro. Its just those black screens that say "loading" that are reduced by several seconds, can expect more improvements as they roll out patches for the games to optimize them for this feature.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Anonymous Coward]

Tried it with Fallout last night here. Load times when zoning are down maybe 5-6 seconds, but that's just icing on the cake of the newly quiet drive.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[shlepp]

I installed Mass Effect, and also noticed it no longer has the random "loading" segments, I'm pretty sure Oblivion and larger games will no longer have the random 1-2sec pauses to load data.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[aftk2]

I'm pretty certain this feature was created just for Fable 2: that game does more disc seeking and has more stuttering problems due to the disc loading than any I've seen. Installing it to the hard drive seems to have improved load time and menu performance.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Doogie5526]

Isn't that something a software update could take care of? I know it's not reasonable to expect development resources for a game that's been out awhile, but Bungie seems like a fairly large company that would have the resources to send a few guys to look at that scenario.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[vux984]

Actually, the problem is that even though the game is "installed" to the HD, it's not really installed. It's just a disc image copied to the HD and mounted so the game thinks it's accessing the disc, same as before. This way, no games have to change their code to work this way. The downside is the case of Halo 3 (and some other games) where they used the HD already. Now it's using the HD as a "disc" and for caching, which wouldn't be necessary if they knew they were running entirely from the disc. There's no easy fix to make it work in both cases.

You mean like mounting an iso image as a file? That should be trivial to detect. The xbox is still essentially a windows system right, and its 100% standardized hardware, right... so it could simply be a case of checking the drive letter. If its running from whatever the standard dvd drive is, its on the CD, if its running from whatever the standard virtual drive letter is, its running from the hard disk...

Or perhaps something more robust...

I mean its not like Microsoft would be trying to mask the fact that its running from a virtual drive in this scenario, so there are probably a number of other simple things it could do, like query the driver, and see if its called 'microsoft xbox virtual drive' or whatever.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[The Analog Kid]

GTA IV doesn't gain much improvement, but something like Mass Effect which does not use the HD at all even for cache, gains significant improvement in reducing texture popping.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[KDR_11k]

I tried with EDF2017, the game has annoying several-second menu loadtimes (every time you select a menu item) but with the install those practically went away. Loading the levels wasn't any faster AFAIK though.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Anonymous Coward]

You could fix the problem by hiding the hard drive from games that are installed on th
e hard drive.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[Babbster]

I'm pretty certain this feature was created just to sell more high-priced 120GB hard drives during this Christmas season, and then 250GB hard drives next year (I'm predicting March or April for the introduction of a new hard drive). Accessories = big bucks in consoleland.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[cube135]

It depends on how much access the game code has to the OS code, though. Also, you need to remember that the HDD technically standard equipment for the system. It's "optional", as in you can buy a 360 without an HDD, but you need it for all the important stuff.

If it's anything like the way that Windows is for file mounting, it's pretty transparent-all you know is that the drive mount can access data from somewhere.

I'd wager that the 360 OS maps the HDD ISO to the same file mount as the DVD drive normally is whenever a game is started. Since all 360 games at this point did not have the option to install, I'd imagine that they're hard-coded to read from the "DVD drive", which, in the case of an install, would be wherever the ISO is mounted from. This would be pretty transparent from the game code standpoint, so it's probably hard to detect the install.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[WCLPeter]

but that the jet engine noise of the DVD reader was gone.

Not only that you don't need to worry about read failures encountered over long play sessions.

It keeps happening to me. If I play a game for more than a few hours the drive will all of a sudden get *very* quiet and then the window pops up telling me that the disc is dirty and can't be read anymore. Of course it keeps happening just as I'm about to beat the level, boss, mission, etc...

I've taken it in to get it repaired under warranty but since it works just fine in the store I can't get them to swap it for a new one, let alone repair it.

So I put a copy of Civ Rev on the hard-drive last night just to test it out and the game was so much quicker, more responsive, and didn't inexplicably slow down whenever you changed menus. Unfortunately I have one of the old 20 GB models, which only ends up being about 16 after the MS bloat for the file system. Throw in a few videos, a couple of ripped CD's (for games that don't have soundtracks), and some Arcade purchases and I don't have much space left!

If only the 120 GB drive didn't cost so much!!!

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[sincewhen]

Couldn't MS just source a quieter DVD drive?

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[auspiv]

My Halo 3 run incredibly faster now- although it isn't really mine. My Halo 3 disc got really scratched somehow, so I borrowed a friend's copy and installed it to my 360's HD. Now, with the image mounted up, load times are much faster, because it doesn't have to sort through scratched sections of the disc. Before, some levels weren't even playable, and now they are, all because I can install a game and only use the disc to prove I own the game. This feature will be very, very useful for people who have scratched discs who also have friends who can lend them a copy. Rip friends' disc -> play a previously unplayable disc.

Re:Duplicity: theres already a "utility parition"

[jseale]

So did I with Madden 09. The game copies to the HD rather quickly, twelve minutes in this case.

Progress

[iamapizza]

The world needs more US-only movie streaming sections!

Re:Progress

[aussie_a]

Have you seen the rubbish the rest of the world is producing?

Re:Progress

[aussie_a]

Have you seen my name?

Re:Progress

[The End Of Days]

You must really like those hair care products

defectivebydesign

[robvangelder]

I'm so sick of this tag showing up under each microsoft article.
we're at 3 comments posted, and already the tag exists.

either installed by an alliance of hardcore slashdotters, or by the admins themselves.
the preferences bug prevents hiding tags. it feeds the conspiracy theorist in me.

either way, it smacks of the behaviour politicians employ just before losing an election.

Re:defectivebydesign

[N1AK]

The tag functionality in Slashdot is pretty defunct due to exactly that kind of thing, I don't really register them anymore in the same way I know adverts are there but the get processed out as noise.

Re:defectivebydesign

[MBraynard]

Tags on slashdot are non-functional. They are like the new joke, the new 'from the xxx dept' line.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

>it feeds the conspiracy theorist in me.

so naive of you: the true conspiracy theorist thinks you or your pals put the tag where it isn't appropriate, to discredit it where it is.

Re:defectivebydesign

[ari wins]

the preferences bug prevents hiding tags.

That's not a bug! It's defectivebydesign!

Re:defectivebydesign

[DRACO-]

I agree with the tag. I have a xbox 360, lasted 3 months. Last night after playing a dvd the video went bad at the power down menu and has not came back. I spent half an hour trouble shooting. Defective by design, I belive so. Innefective cooling = dead components. The gpu probably has fried.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

But it's true!

Re:defectivebydesign

[Xs1t0ry]

Some tags are just plain facetious... I personally get a lot of lulz out of them and like it just the way it is. I don't think they're part of any conspiracy.

Re:defectivebydesign

[MasterOfMagic]

"Defective by design" is one of the phrases the FSF uses to describe DRM. The Xbox 360 has DRM, there's no question about that. You can't just copy a game using a DVD burner and play it even if you own a copy of the game. It makes backing up your games (and yes with a bunch of drunk frat boys, it makes sense to not have to sink $60 into another copy of the game because someone got drunk and played Frisbee with it) impossible without modifying your console. If you modify your console, however, Microsoft has said that they will ban you because they assume that you will be playing "pirated" games or are cheating on Xbox Live.

While the NXE helps a little in this regard (you can copy games to the hard drive), it also doesn't completely solve the problem (you need to have the original game in the drive to start the game).

Don't even get me started on the Xbox Live Marketplace.

Re:defectivebydesign

[halcyon1234]

either way, it smacks of the behaviour politicians employ just before losing an election.

So... you're saying that the tag system won't be our next president? I'm confused.

Re:defectivebydesign

[elrous0]

If we're going to start slapping that label on everything that has any DRM in it, we had might as well just make it appear by default on every story on /. There is very little software, media, or hardware released today that DOESN'T have some form of DRM attached.

Re:defectivebydesign

[cowscows]

Every console has copy protection of some sort. If you put the defectivebydesign tag on every story that's console related, then that tag quickly becomes useless for its intended purpose, which supposedly is to make certain topics easier to find.

Instead, tags pretty much immediately became just another way of making "political" anonymous comments.

I guess my point is that tags on /. are a complete failure, and should be removed.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Artifex]

I think the tag's fine. I still can't plug in any hard drive I want to the USB port and have it download content to it. It'll read my content, but won't let me add the stuff I buy online. I have to spend tons of money on an official 360 drive that I then have to swap out for my current one, rendering it obsolete, if I want more space.

It's got intentional limitations placed on me that have no need to be there. It's defective. By design.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Having to install the update to play Call of Duty 4; since updating - bugs have shown themselves that have not before (and I've played a lot of COD4 :)

Re:defectivebydesign

[superstick58]

You have just described a supposed hardware flaw. This article is about a software update. Unless there is a fundamental defect designed into the software update, your argument does not apply to this article.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Hal_Porter]

Evolution could have probably built a human body that would live for hundreds of years but our current lifespan is enough to breed and that is good enough. Are we defective by design?

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

To me it sounds like that is a CoD4 bug and has nothing to do with the XBOX.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Hatta]

"Defective by design" refers to the deliberately broken nature of DRM systems. i.e. they took special effort to ensure that some features would not be available. The design of your Xbox may be defective, but that's not the same thing.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

And not only is the FSF meaning (DRM) relevant here, but the article itself is about a design feature that causes undesired (defective) behavior in games -> that's quite accurately "defective by design".

So, although it shows up a lot for MS, here at least (and in many other cases, although perhaps not all) it is entirely appropriate.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

So many Microsoft shills that are oh so sick of all the well deserved and accurate Microsoft bashing, awwww! Complaining about the DRM driven by Microsoft is one thing, but taking offense when people mention its existence is another entirely.

Re:defectivebydesign

[orclevegam]

Well, yes and no. Although a human could potentially live for hundreds of years, doing so would lead either to much slower breeding cycles (and thus slower evolution), or massive overpopulation (even with out limited lifespans this is an issue). Although it's true that a longer lived human could contribute back more over their lifetime, it would also tend to cause the species as a whole to stagnate on a genetic level. From an evolutionary standpoint it makes sense to have shorter lifespans, although given our relative genetic stability at this point combined with our massive numbers a longer lifespan with a much slower and shorter breeding period would probably be preferable, sadly evolution doesn't work on the sort of time scales that would make that change naturally, before such a change would likely be obsolete.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Blakey Rat]

Yes, but no game console in history has allowed you to do that, so it would be hard to argue it as being "defective". I mean, a Model T didn't have seatbelts, does that make it "defective by design?"

Maybe when talking about the Xbox 360 they should make the tag "lacking-a-feature-I-would-like-to-have-by-design." Not as catchy though.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with the tag. I have a xbox 360, lasted 3 months. Last night after playing a dvd the video went bad at the power down menu and has not came back. I spent half an hour trouble shooting. Defective by design, I belive so. Innefective cooling = dead components. The gpu probably has fried.

That doesn't make the tag applicable to this situation. This is not a defect of the design. It's the result of a new feature not giving the benefit to games that had already worked out how to get that performance boost under the older situation in a manner that was applicable to their game.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone tried installing games to the HDD, and tried using a copy of the game?

Re:defectivebydesign

[doesnothingwell]

Xbox hardware is so bad the tag is justified. Xbox hardware is so bad it should never be forgotten or glossed over and thrown in Microsoft's face at any mention of Xbox. Its another piece of mass produced crap that after year one only the truley stupid would purchase.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, you're calling it "defective" that you can't just go and download all the Xbox 360 games, burn them, and play them on Xbox Live without having to pay a cent.

You know what else is defective by design? ATMs. They have money inside, but they don't just let you take it when you want it. Oh, and the law too, since you can't just go into a store and take whatever you want.

Moron.

Re:defectivebydesign

[MasterOfMagic]

Bad analogy. First, I own the Xbox 360, so I should be able to hack it any way that I choose. I purchased it, it is my property. If Microsoft wanted to retain control over the machine they sold me, they should call it a lease, not a sale.

Second, who said anything about not paying for games games? Certainly not me. As much as I dislike the current IP laws, I obey them. My beef is that I cannot make my own games for the system without using Microsoft's proprietary tools and play backups of the games that I have purchased to avoid damaging the original discs.

I do not own the ATM or the bank. The property in the store is not mine. I have no right to do whatever I please with it. I purchased the Xbox 360, so I should be able to do whatever I please with it.

Moron.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

You are able to do (almost) whatever you please with the Xbox. Microsoft ain't gonna come knocking on your door if you take a sledgehammer to it (They might if it was a lease).

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, you're calling it "defective" that you can't just go and download all the Xbox 360 games, burn them, and play them on Xbox Live without having to pay a cent.

Show where he said that, or anything implying that. If you say anything else, including nothing, it will be the same as shrieking "I MADE THAT UP BECAUSE I AM A LYING SHITHEEL" at the top of your lungs.

Re:defectivebydesign

[yyr]

The 360's DRM is very well-designed and not at all intrusive. It is set up in the best way possible to prevent piracy without bothering the end user. Content purchased on Marketplace can be used on your console, on an unlimited basis, by any user of that console. But if you sign into Xbox Live from ANY Xbox 360 console--no matter who owns it--you can still access all of the content you purchased on your account. (Other users of that console, however, can not.) Furthermore, if you buy a new console, send yours in for repair and get back a different one, etc. you can transfer all of your licenses to a different console. This can only be done once a year but it's a nice ability to have. This is way more lenient than the Wii's DRM, which locks all content to your console no matter what. You can't transfer licenses under any circumstances, and you can't back up your purchased content and play it on a different console. The PS3 uses two different DRM schemes dependent on the content you're buying. One is too lax (allows five installs on any consoles, with no protection against piracy of the other four installs), the other is too strict (only allows the purchaser to play; other users of the same console are locked out). Individual games like SingStar also have their own DRM schemes on top of that. So yes, I'll gladly take the 360's DRM any day.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

You're reasoning is typical of the retards here on slashdot. You agreed to the terms and conditions, if you dont, you should have returned the xbox (or any other console for that matter). And you dont own the game, you own rights to play that particular game using particular technologies. Its understandable that you are unable to process any legal details due to the limited capacity of your brain. But If you dont like the current situation, setup a paypal fund where FOSS zombies can donate $40 and then give it to someone to create an OSS game. In short, stop being a fucking 12 yr old. Maybe thats too much to ask.

You: "I dislike DRM on principle but I agreed to the terms and conditions anyway and then let me me go ahead and bitch about it online."

Re:defectivebydesign

[harl]

You can hack it anyway you want. Microsoft won't do anything to you. However you can't go on live if you do since you must sign a contract stating you won't use live with a modified console.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

Straw man arguments are lies.

Re:defectivebydesign

[dfn_deux]

You can do whatever you want with the console, you do own it. Likewise Microsoft owns their own game network and they can, likewise, do whatever they want with it. The problem with arguments like yours is that you don't see that inherently the rights of the consumer and the rights of the retailer are essentially the same. If you don't like the terms then don't go into a transaction.... If you want some sort of anarchistic gaming system/network then I recommend you get to work programing and designing hardware; there are like minded people out there.

Re:defectivebydesign

[KDR_11k]

He talked about backups which are impossible for the console to differentiate from a pirated version. Therefore, yes, he is complaining because he cannot use a burned game.

Re:defectivebydesign

[MasterOfMagic]

You agreed to the terms and conditions, if you dont, you should have returned the xbox (or any other console for that matter).

The terms and conditions weren't on the outside of the box and I couldn't review them before I opened the box. Once the box was open, the retailer and Microsoft wouldn't take the console back. Sounds like the textbook case of an unenforceable contract to me.

And you dont own the game, you own rights to play that particular game using particular technologies.

So if I don't own the media, if the media gets scratched and I own the rights to play the game on the technology, does that mean that Microsoft has to send me a replacement disc? If not, then I didn't buy the rights to play that particular game using that particular technology, did I?

Re:defectivebydesign

[KDR_11k]

The Wii also comes with a TOS stating you must wipe the license data (thereby permanently losing access to all games you bought from their online store) before reselling the system. I'm not sure how many people actually read that.

Re:defectivebydesign

[KDR_11k]

Well, Dreamcast maybe... It did kill Sega's console business though.

Re:defectivebydesign

[MasterOfMagic]

I don't mind them doing what they like with their game network. What they expect of me is spelled out in a contract that I can read before I purchase the item, not inside the box the item comes in under shrinkwrap that, once the shrinkwrap is broken, is nonreturnable.

My problem is that the terms for the Xbox 360 console itself are not known until after you can't return the console. Regardless of if you subscribe to LIVE or not, you cannot play legitimate backups and you cannot develop your own games without Microsoft's proprietary tools.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

He's NOT complaining about not being able to PIRATE games, which is what the craven liar I responded to said he was doing.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Artifex]

Yes, but no game console in history has allowed you to do that

Doesn't the PS3 allow you to connect any drive and save to it? I thought so, but I don't have one so I can't be sure.

Re:defectivebydesign

[dfn_deux]

Now you are just playing dumb. I don't think anyone here honestly believes that you didn't know what you were buying and it's limitations when you bought it. It doesn't advertise having any of the features you've mentioned and it hardly seems that not supporting features you've never claimed to have is any sort of deceptive practice. If you want to hack away at your xbox to add those features then you should go right ahead and do that. Mostly it just sounds like you are doing a whole lot of bellyaching for naught.

Re:defectivebydesign

[MBraynard]

So it's not a tag, it's a political statement.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

Once the box was open, the retailer and Microsoft wouldn't take the console back. Sounds like the textbook case of an unenforceable contract to me.

Typically you have to return the entire thing within X days. If such a clause is not present in the EULA, then its potentially illegal and I'm surprised nobody has sued them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EULA#Shrink-wrap_and_click-wrap_licenses

So if I don't own the media, if the media gets scratched and I own the rights to play the game on the technology, does that mean that Microsoft has to send me a replacement disc?

Yes, you should be able to get one if the license is worded that way. I got one for vista. My grad school gave me a free copy of vista. I had to download the ISO from an intra-net 'portal' and subsequently I lost the file. All I had was the serial number and I was able to get a replacement disk. YMMV.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Namarrgon]

You can replace the internal drive with your own, but you can't connect one to the USB port and download to it.

Re:defectivebydesign

[B4D BE4T]

The 360's DRM is very well-designed and not at all intrusive.

I disagree. The hardware could be used as a very good, inexpensive general purpose computer. And why shouldn't this be possible? After all, I paid for it. However, DRM inside the CPU prevents the console from running anything but the Xbox 360's OS. I once looked into booting Linux on it, but it turns out it is only possible to do this using a combination of a bug in a specific version of the Xbox 360's OS and a bug in the King Kong game, among other things. If your Xbox 360 came with a later version of the OS, there is no way to downgrade it. So the DRM effectively makes it illegal to use the Xbox 360 as a general purpose computer (thank you DMCA) and impossible to do this unless you can find an older Xbox 360 that has not downloaded any of the updates.

Re:defectivebydesign

[B4D BE4T]

The problem is not that these extra features are missing. The problem is that the hardware/software was specifically designed to prevent anyone from modifying it to include these features.

Using your example, I think a Model T would be considered "defective by design" if it were designed to prevent people from installing seat belts themselves.

Re:defectivebydesign

[mattack2]

Why shouldn't it be possible? Because their business plan (presumably) relies on users essentially subsidizing the cost of the hardware by buying new games which cause Microsoft to get license fees.

So you don't agree with their plan... you could get something else..

Re:defectivebydesign

[rtechie]

The hardware could be used as a very good, inexpensive general purpose computer.

No it wouldn't. The weird architecture means you'd have to recompile every app you wanted to use and very few applications would have the Power4-based CPU as a target, so anything you compiled would be buggy unless you modified lots of source yourself. I've done this, it's a major PITA and isn't worth it. You CAN get entry-level PCs for $350.

The only console that was ever useful as a general purpose computer was the original XBOX, which was architecturally an Intel PC. You could easily run several Linux distributions or Windows on it, and the excellent XBox Media Center, was developed to give hacked Xboxes a real use (as a front end to a MythTV or Windows Media based PVR). Also being based on Intel means a wide range of stable emulators were available. The emulation of Nintendo games on my Xbox is dramatically superior to the emulation offered on the wii, for example.

Re:defectivebydesign

[KDR_11k]

He didn't mention it directly but the console's rejection of burned copies from P2P is what caused his complaint because it also affects backups. Yeah, yeah, arguing semantics is pointless, I concur.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the PS3's policy too lax? What if you have more than one console you play on? (either multiple consoles in a house, or multiple friend's houses you play at)

Why should you be restricted in how you use your content (as you pointed out, other users of that "other" console can not use the content).

So, if I buy a few songs for Rock Band, and decide to use them with friends, but we've all been playing together on someone else's XBox, with their account, does that mean we can't use those tracks there? That doesn't sound "better" to me.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

You can replace the internal PS3 hard-drive with any 2.5" hard-drive (its user serviceable).

You can also plug in a USB drive and download your saved games (which are normally saved to the HD), movies, pictures, and whatnot back and forth between the internal hard-drive and the USB drive.

You can not however download games to a USB drive. On the other hand, most games already use the PS3 HD for caching game data, and the optical drive is much quieter than the XBox DVD drive (not saying it s silent, just quieter), so its not a feature Sony hasn't been rushing to implement.

MS has been trying to address complaints of how noisy the 360 is. Instead of fixing the hardware, they've decided to introduce a work-around. This has the advantage of being "backwardly compatible" with all their systems, but it doesn't seem like it addresses the underlying problem (noise of the optical drive).

On the other hand, now that they've released this "fix" they can work on fixing the optical drive noise and then announce, "Oh yeah, users of the new XBox Ultra-Elite don't really need that feature, its just there for the convenience of our older model customers." :/

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

"You can't just copy a game using a DVD burner and play it even if you own a copy of the game."

You mean you can't play copied games without modification, just like every game console ever made? Fucking shocker!

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't semantics at all, you dribbling cretin. Read the post I replied to again:

In other words, you're calling it "defective" that you can't just go and download all the Xbox 360 games, burn them, and play them on Xbox Live without having to pay a cent.

The guy was EXPLICITLY saying Masterofmagic was mad about not being able to PIRATE all the games he wants. That was a lie, he is a liar, and YOU are defending him. This makes you either an idiot or another liar. Which is it? Those are your only possible choices, and any other response you give, including none, will only confirm that it is "both". Make your choice.

Re:defectivebydesign

[Anonymous Coward]

Both, then. Not that any other outcome was expected, or even possible.

Re:defectivebydesign

[B4D BE4T]

I didn't mean "general purpose computer" in the "grandma's email box" sense. I meant "general purpose computer" -- as in something that will compute the output of any given input. I don't care whether any of those applications work. As long as GCC works, I'm happy. And if it takes some modification to get that to work, I would be OK with that too. My problem is that this thing refuses to compute the output of anything except Microsoft-approved input.

Re:defectivebydesign

[B4D BE4T]

Understood. Although I believe that this business practice is unethical and possibly illegal. Their plan effectively locks out any competition in Xbox 360 hardware and software. Microsoft has already been fined for similar licensing practices.

So you don't agree with their plan... you could get something else..

I see what you're saying. In a free market we can choose not to buy the system that locks you into buying the vendor's own after-market items and go for the slightly more expensive system without the vendor lock-in. In reality, most will buy the cheaper system without realizing that they have been locked into buying the more expensive add-ons from the same vendor. Competing companies will be forced to lower their prices to stay competitive. But without the extra add-on revenue, they will eventually go under. So in the end, you don't have a choice.

Imagine if car manufacturers tried to pull this same stunt. You buy a Ford because it is the cheapest. But, Ford has designed their car so that it doesn't start unless it is using Ford-licensed tires, which sell for a lot more than competing tires. There is already proposed legislation to stop this type of business practice in the automobile industry. I think that the software industry should be held to the same standards.

New features rock.

[Frac O Mac]

Quite a few of them should have been implemented long ago but if nothing else, this makes the xbox just that much better. Its not mentioned in the summary but the new party system is awesome; I can chat with all my friends at the same time even if someone has to leave and come back, and we don't even have to go through all the menus. While this update may not be too newsworthy for many out there, for people like me who play their 360 far too much (left 4 dead ftw atm!) this is a huge increase in overall functionality.

I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[philspear]

I'm slightly embarassed to say it, but I really like the update.

I love the streaming videos more than I probably should. In fact, I'm going to say I love it for the exact reasons I play games on the console rather than the PC in the first place: I don't like messing around with the PC settings at all when I'm trying to entertain myself. The netflix streaming videos didn't work instantly on my PC and I never bothered with it again, on the console it worked immediately. Call that laziness if you want, I'll just turn around and call you something else.

I was entertained for about 10 minutes with making an avatar even though it was a blatant ripoff of the wii and somehow cheesier.

The running games on the hard drive on the other hand was a letdown, as Halo immediately told me I should not be running the game off the HDD. For offline games it still sounds like a good thing, as the disc drive on those things crap out frequently.

The new menu is really a tossup and not that important either way.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

Call that laziness if you want, I'll just turn around and call you something else.

Is it "competent"?

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[fahrvergnugen]

Pros:
+Netflix streaming video works like a charm.
+Avatars have potential and are reasonably customizable, very similar to the Mii.
+It's great to see the party system extended beyond COD4 / Halo 3.
+Playing from HDD instead of from CD will certainly cut down on wear & tear.
+In-game dashboard is much nicer.

Cons:
-We've gone from 5 tabs to 50+ screens. It's crap.
-The menu defaults to the "showcase" channel, which advertises Microsoft's newest games. This means that Microsoft, not content with getting us to pay $300+ for a console and $50 / year for Live, feels the need to advertise to us every time we go to the dashboard.
-Old themes port very poorly, stretched across the background in awkward ways.
-Many links to premium content have been pushed to the front page.
-"Autodownload" feature for the Arcade releases is gone.
-Haven't fixed the glaring file management bugs - it's not possible to do something like, say, delete 150 old Oblivion saves to reclaim disk space while keeping 5 of them without pressing 4 buttons for each individual savegame. Not a problem until you realize they're over a megabyte apiece, and on a 20gb hard disk this adds up fast.

On the whole I hate it. The ui is completely cluttered now, but the defaulting to advertisements behavior and the up-front sells for premium content are a dealbreaker. I'm changing my 360's default behavior to "boot what's in the drive" from "default to dashboard" and I'm never looking back.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

Cons:
-The menu defaults to the "showcase" channel, which advertises Microsoft's newest games. This means that Microsoft, not content with getting us to pay $300+ for a console and $50 / year for Live, feels the need to advertise to us every time we go to the dashboard.

Exactly what I thought, until I realised that to start a game, the button presses have gone from something like "down-down-down-down-down A" to "up A". Ok, not a huge difference, but it all feels so much smoother - *and* it either logs you into Live earlier, or it doesn't reset the menus when it logs you in, which changes it from "down-down-down-down dammit down-down-down-down-down A" to "up A".

Or have I lost you all? ;-)

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[EvilIdler]

The showcase channel can be switched off. I did that soon after not making an avatard.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

Halo tells you not to run it from the drive, because MS hadn't internally finalized the feature before Halo 3 went gold.

Halo 3 doesn't know what it is being run from, so it always copies files to the HDD. Which means.. it's copying from the HDD to the HDD. Which slows things down.

Bungie has a writeup here

http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid16252

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[neokushan]

No, that's the "welcome" channel, two completely different things.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[neokushan]

I'm with you on that one. What's more, previously the dash used to be cluttered with ads everywhere, now they're all in one section that can be much more easily ignored. Sure, it's annoying that it's the default section, but it's a small price to pay and a much better way of integrating adverts, if you ask me. Plus it seems to be the only way to advertise new features, like the photo sharing app - I actually went looking for it before it appeared there and it must have taken me a good 15mins just to find where it was hidden (it's under "Game add-ons" for some reason).

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[KDR_11k]

The pre-release news on the system talked about how you can set it to use the old menu again, I didn't read that part though.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[cra]

Cons:
-Haven't fixed the glaring file management bugs - it's not possible to do something like, say, delete 150 old Oblivion saves to reclaim disk space while keeping 5 of them without pressing 4 buttons for each individual savegame. Not a problem until you realize they're over a megabyte apiece, and on a 20gb hard disk this adds up fast.

I agree on this one. A posibility to tag files for deleteion and *then* remove them would be nice. Or at least make use of the red and green buttons for No/Yes instead of having to mothe the damn stick up to yes and then press A.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[ergo98]

The running games on the hard drive on the other hand was a letdown, as Halo immediately told me I should not be running the game off the HDD.

Halo was self-aware that it was running from the HDD? I had thought they'd sandboxed these things sufficiently to block that sort of storage awareness.

Though Microsoft has been very forthright with statements about the limited benefits of installing to the hard drive, honestly stating that load times will see little or no change (whether because the hard drive and it's bus is particularly slow, or the optical drive is very fast), however I ran out and stuck a hard disk drive on my so-cheap-I-had-to-buy-it (and have been amazingly impressed since. Despite generally being a Microsoft detractor, I am sold on this little box, and marvel what 3 year old technology can achieve graphically) Xbox Arcade-

• Your unit is a lot quieter, which is obvious immediately. Purportedly it runs cooler as well (which I haven't measured
• Your disc won't be gouged to hell if the unit is moved in any way, which is a known problem with the xbox 360. I accidentally moved mine (after it had sat for probably an hour doing "nothing", and I presumed was idle), to discover that it was still inexplicably spinning the GTA IV disc. Instantly the disc had its little polycarbonate guts eviscerated by the unforgiving head mechanism.
• Possible way to "save" broken discs? (see below)

My GTA IV is currently unusable, and I'm too lazy and irritated to send it cross-border to Ohio (with all packaging), and all of the customs shizzle, paying $7.50 to get the disc replaced. With this new HDD install functionality I'm going to try renting GTA IV, installing it to the HD, and see if my b0rked copy is sufficient for the minimal copy protection check it does at the outset. [Crossing Fingers]

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[dhavleak]

+It's great to see the party system extended beyond COD4 / Halo 3.

The party system always did extend beyond these games (to most games in fact). The party system in NXE is different. You can be in a party with some friends, but doing different things (playing a game, watching a movie, etc). You can switch to the party channel if you wish to only communicate with people in your party, or the game channel if you want to chat with the people you're playing with. So if you want to play COD4 but you're tired of dealing with obnoxious gamers, you can first start a party with your friends, and then play COD4, and stay on the party channel -- no need to deal with obnoxious ppl. Same for any game, in NXE now.

-We've gone from 5 tabs to 50+ screens. It's crap.

Why compare tabs to screens? We've gone from 5 tabs to 6 channels. Panning left/right in a channel is like scrolling up/down in a tab.

-The menu defaults to the "showcase" channel, which advertises Microsoft's newest games. This means that Microsoft, not content with getting us to pay $300+ for a console and $50 / year for Live, feels the need to advertise to us every time we go to the dashboard.

Turn off the Showcase channel :). It's in the settings somewhere.

-Old themes port very poorly, stretched across the background in awkward ways.

Hrm.. I didn't have that experience. I did see the wallpapers being obscured below the horizon (no idea what the correct term is) though. Considering the magnitude of the upgrade, I'm hardly concerned about this though. I do agree it's irritating if you've actually purchased a theme, for it to not be as pervasive as it was earlier.

-Haven't fixed the glaring file management bugs - it's not possible to do something like, say, delete 150 old Oblivion saves to reclaim disk space while keeping 5 of them without pressing 4 buttons for each individual savegame. Not a problem until you realize they're over a megabyte apiece, and on a 20gb hard disk this adds up fast.

Sounds like an issue with Oblivion rather than NXE. If Oblivion allows you to create so many game saves, Oblivion should offer a good UI for cleaning up it's junk.

On the whole I hate it.

I'm so surprised that anyone can actually hate it! The old blades are just one button away at all times, and they've not lost any functionality, and they've only gotten zippier. And it doesn't have ads. So you have everything you want, a single button away, and wonderful eye candy on the other hand (you gotta admit it -- NXE is gorgeous). Best of both worlds! Not to mention, the sight of a bunch of avatars standing in a group (because they're in a party) is pretty cool. Very cool that you can just click on that group to see party options. And that for people who you game with regularly online you'll actually be able to recognize the avatars at a glance and get an idea of who's in the party -- rather than having to read a dry spreadsheet-looking list of friends. And from the cover-art, you know what the party is doing too. Super-cool.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Xs1t0ry]

Not a bad +/- list. Thanks. I think it's worth a mention that - to no fault of MS - Sony pulling Columbia pictures is a big deal. Columbia has A LOT of movies. That's a big hole in content. I hate when corporate squabbles end up screwing over the customer. Hopefully they can get something sorted out. Does Sony honestly think that this move will make more people buy a PS3/less people buy a 360? The irrestible incentive of some Columbia pictures? The whole idea is retarded... Sony is just making me hate on them some more.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Have Blue]

The auto-download feature is going to be replaced with "remote download"- you will be able to go onto Xbox.com and select things for download later, and they will automatically start the next time you turn the console on.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[dhavleak]

Possible way to "save" broken discs?

Not likely -- you still need to put the disk in the drive to play the game. My guess is that performance and noise are only "fringe benefits" of this feature. The big deal (for microsoft) is probably that this will allow them to make multi-disk games.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[ergo98]

Not likely -- you still need to put the disk in the drive to play the game

There are two small rings that thwart actual playing, but it seems unlikely that they just happen to be exactly the areas that it checks to validate ownership. Maybe, but probability hints to otherwise.

Who knows, though. Maybe when sitting idle that's all it does is sit on the copy protection sectors. We'll see.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[ergo98]

My guess is that performance and noise are only "fringe benefits" of this feature. The big deal (for microsoft) is probably that this will allow them to make multi-disk games.

Meant to comment on this.

Discs are going out very, very quickly. Microsoft and gamemakers have no interest in sharing profits with distributors and warehouses and fork lift drivers and then retailers, which is why there has been a massive (and logical) push for downloaded games. The fringe benefit in this case is enough for many to think "Gee, maybe I should get a hard drive", and the next step is for them to start buying games online.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[ProppaT]

We've gone from 5 tabs to 50+ screens. It's crap.

Not true. There still are 5 (maybe 6, I'm at work) tabs. They're what you get when you go up and down. Each tab presents you with screens which make it simple to get where you want to go. In UI design theory, we have the rule of 3's (or 5's depending on who you prescribe to). You should never have to go through more than 3 menus to get to something and, with the old dash, I found myself having to go over 5 layers deep at times and, even then, I wasn't sure I was doing it the right way. There were multiple ways to get to everything which was unnecessary.

-The menu defaults to the "showcase" channel, which advertises Microsoft's newest games. This means that Microsoft, not content with getting us to pay $300+ for a console and $50 / year for Live, feels the need to advertise to us every time we go to the dashboard.

Welcome to 2008.

The ui is completely cluttered now, but the defaulting to advertisements behavior and the up-front sells for premium content are a dealbreaker.

How so? For the first time, it's actually logical how to find things and you don't have a thousand different options, some taking you to the same place, on the screen at the same time. It's understandable that you don't like it and aren't used to it, but calling it cluttered (especially put up to the old blade system which was the epitome of clutter, IMO) is a little harsh.

I'm changing my 360's default behavior to "boot what's in the drive" from "default to dashboard" and I'm never looking back.

Why didn't you have it set to that to begin with?

I would also like to say that you can pull up a screen that works like the old blade system. I forget the button combination, but you can still browse your xbox the old style way. They haven't cut off the oxygen yet.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[AlexMax2742]

-We've gone from 5 tabs to 50+ screens. It's crap.

No, you've gone from 5 tabs to 5 main menu items, it's only that instead of going left to right it goes up and down.

-The menu defaults to the "showcase" channel, which advertises Microsoft's newest games. This means that Microsoft, not content with getting us to pay $300+ for a console and $50 / year for Live, feels the need to advertise to us every time we go to the dashboard.

Are you new to 360's in general? The OXE was cluttered with advertisements in more traditional form, banner ads. And I'm pretty sure the default menu item was the game I had in my DVD drive when I turned it on from a fresh start last night.

-Old themes port very poorly, stretched across the background in awkward ways.

Paid themes were for suckers anyway, they usually looked awful even in the old system. Is the NXE not a new enough theme for you?

-Haven't fixed the glaring file management bugs - it's not possible to do something like, say, delete 150 old Oblivion saves to reclaim disk space while keeping 5 of them without pressing 4 buttons for each individual savegame. Not a problem until you realize they're over a megabyte apiece, and on a 20gb hard disk this adds up fast.

I might be mad except for the fact that one of my biggest issues with the old system, the way it loaded the list of arcade games you had installed, has in fact been 100% fixed. Personally, I play my games far more often than I delete saves, so I can understand if their engineers put priority on different things (and avoid playing awful games like Oblivion period).

Overall, I'm a huge fan of the NXE because it makes the interface a good deal more responsive. The old blade system seemed to always be one or two steps behind you and I was never a big fan of its stylings, and now it feels quite polished and slick.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[svendsen]

You had me at...up up down down left right left right B A select start

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[nschubach]

Sounds like an issue with Oblivion rather than NXE. If Oblivion allows you to create so many game saves, Oblivion should offer a good UI for cleaning up it's junk.

That's like saying it's the responsibility of any application on your PC to do file management. You'd have to learn Adobe's menus for cleaning up Adobe files, Microsoft Office's methods for managing your word docs and Visual Studio's methods for managing project files...

It's up to the OS to allow you to clean up files if you need to, not each individual application.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[fuckinshitmotherfuck]

Advertising does serve a purpose. I don't read gamer magazines, websites, etc. The only time I actually think about gaming is when I am sitting in front of my xbox... I could not think of a more logical place to see gaming ads. I never hear anyone complaining about the television studios advertising their own shows *gasp* while you are watching television.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

You are so right. I hate when people hate and criticize a new product that is good, badly. Most people will look for any small excuse to hate on the product. I bet they love its ease of functionality. I bet they love more options it gives. I bet they love all the party features. Why are they killing themselves over themes that are not displayed well. ARE THEY PLAYING THEMES? DOES IT HAMPER GAMEPLAY? No. So they should stop worrying about small issues and appreciate it because the update was good.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[HAKdragon]

I have a similar issue. I'll be playing the game fine and all of a sudden *bam!* I get the usual "unable to read disc, clean it and restart" message. I used to get that playing GTA4 as well. I'm half tempted to call up MS and get it serviced, but that will cost me nearly $100 since the unit is out of warranty.
 
As an aside, this the second 360 I've had. My first one RRoD'd, and I got this unit as a replacement, with a noticably louder DVD drive.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

I downloaded it last night--after incessant prompting from the MS overlord--and it feels like someone tried to take pieces from the Wii and PS3, throw in some MS coloring and handed it out. The slide panes were much more efficient.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[shlepp]

-Haven't fixed the glaring file management bugs - it's not possible to do something like, say, delete 150 old Oblivion saves to reclaim disk space while keeping 5 of them without pressing 4 buttons for each individual savegame. Not a problem until you realize they're over a megabyte apiece, and on a 20gb hard disk this adds up fast.

This is why you make 4 save games and just keep overwriting them instead of making a new one everything, a habit Ive gotten into since Ive started playing games, i never have more than 3-4 save games which i just overwrite in a certain order. There's no need at all to have more than 5 saves for whatever reason.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[brkello]

Or up to the user not to save 150 times then complain about having to delete them. In any case, you seem to not play games. On a PC, it is easier since you can just go in to folders, highlight a bunch of files, and drag them to the trash. But this isn't a PC, it is a game console. The interface to your save games is designed by the game companies (this is how it is on the PC too, just you have more options on how to deal with the files). You don't want the user accidentally hitting the wrong button and deleting the game they have been working on for 60 hours. So you have to add in confirmation screens to prevent the user from doing it. So, really, I wouldn't say it is the game companies fault...I'd say it is the users fault for having some sort of saving addiction.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Blakey Rat]

I agree; but on the other hand, Bethestha knew when they were developing Oblivion that deleting masses of saves would be awkward and annoying and could have worked around it. As a person who frequently makes "running logs" of saves (I had 300+ Oblivion saves at one point), I completely agree that the Xbox file manager BADLY needs a "rubber-band" selection. Or a "select all" button, or something.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

Then disable "Microsoft marketing" and "Partner marketing" in your privacy settings. You have ALWAYS been able to disable advertisements from Microsoft on every iteration of the Xbox 360 dashboard, and the NXE is no change to that policy.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

The party system always did extend beyond these games (to most games in fact). The party system in NXE is different. You can be in a party with some friends, but doing different things (playing a game, watching a movie, etc). You can switch to the party channel if you wish to only communicate with people in your party, or the game channel if you want to chat with the people you're playing with. So if you want to play COD4 but you're tired of dealing with obnoxious gamers, you can first start a party with your friends, and then play COD4, and stay on the party channel -- no need to deal with obnoxious ppl. Same for any game, in NXE now.

Kind of, but parties did not transfer between games before, IIRC. If you wanted to do that, one of you would have to move to the new game, and then reinvite everyone else. This is far more convenient.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[MikeBabcock]

Sounds like an issue with Oblivion rather than NXE. If Oblivion allows you to create so many game saves, Oblivion should offer a good UI for cleaning up it's junk.

I disagree. Saved games are universal in the sense that all games have them, and therefore managing them should be the duty of the platform, not the individual game.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

The menu defaults to the "showcase" channel, which advertises Microsoft's newest games. This means that Microsoft, not content with getting us to pay $300+ for a console and $50 / year for Live, feels the need to advertise to us every time we go to the dashboard.

you realize that it prompts you to decide if you want to disable that when it first displays, right? it was on my screen for about five seconds before I changed the setting, and now it never appears.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow that's alot more convenient than auto download! Thank you, Microsoft!

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[nschubach]

I do play games, however, on my PS3 I can go into the save folder, check a bunch of files I want to delete and select "Delete Selected" and they are gone.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[illumin8]

The party system always did extend beyond these games (to most games in fact). The party system in NXE is different. You can be in a party with some friends, but doing different things (playing a game, watching a movie, etc). You can switch to the party channel if you wish to only communicate with people in your party, or the game channel if you want to chat with the people you're playing with. So if you want to play COD4 but you're tired of dealing with obnoxious gamers, you can first start a party with your friends, and then play COD4, and stay on the party channel -- no need to deal with obnoxious ppl. Same for any game, in NXE now.

While that is indeed a cool feature, I'm surprised by how far behind the PC gaming experience console gaming is. My friends and I have been doing this for years now. We have a Ventrilo (or Teamspeak) server and we all log in and talk about whatever games we're playing in a channel we all hang out in. Some days we might even be playing completely different games from each other. In fact, some people I know even run multiple copies of Ventrilo at the same time so they can participate in team chat in whatever game they're playing, as well as talk to their friends in another channel.

It's about time console gaming caught up to PC gaming.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

> Turn off the Showcase channel :). It's in the settings somewhere.

Where?

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[dhavleak]

It's still not the same thing -- no console game (PS3/Wii/xbox) should permit 150 save points without a good way of cleaning them up. Most console games allow only one save point per profile. How is a non-savvy user even expected to know which files to delete? How do they know they're not deleting some important game file? Oblivion is the only game I've heard of with this issue -- it's clearly their bug.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[dhavleak]

Sounds like an issue with Oblivion rather than NXE. If Oblivion allows you to create so many game saves, Oblivion should offer a good UI for cleaning up it's junk.

I disagree. Saved games are universal in the sense that all games have them, and therefore managing them should be the duty of the platform, not the individual game.

Except that most games (oblivion is the only counter example I've ever heard of) allow just one save per profile - so they don't leave junk like that to clean up. As I stated elsewhere -- how is a non-savvy user to know which files to clean up? How does the user know they're not foobar-ing some important game files? How did the user even know where to look for the files? So you see - it does make sense for the UI for this to reside in the game. The game knows what files to delete, can present the information in a convenient and meaningful way, and the requirement is unique to this game.

To put things in perspective -- I would hardly complain if we got some good file management UI options in NXE -- I'd welcome it. But it's certainly not a core scenario, and it's definitely not a bug (as OP called it), and it's a really silly point based on which to criticize NXE, especially if the old blades behaved exactly the same way

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[nschubach]

It's not a bug. You can save at any point. There are a lot of branching stories and even I have the urge to save, try something then go back. Sometimes I don't go back and then don't need the saves again. The game itself shouldn't be making 150 saves. Mine has a quick save, an auto save and whatever saves the person makes. So a minimum of 2 saves and a maximum of however many I want.

Maybe the XBox version if like this, but no other version I know of has this behavior.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[xenocide2]

Civilization allows ten saves per profile, and prompts you once per "age". If you don't overwrite it'll fill fast anyways.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[KDR_11k]

Plus using one division to push another can be an antitrust issue.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[KDR_11k]

I can't speak for others but I tend to be more interested in downloadable games than retail games, I spent a LOT of money on Wii points cards and my first "game" for the 360 was a points card (which bought Cv SotN and Braid).

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[philspear]

No, the types who would call me lazy for not wanting to work to watch a movie are typically what I would call "computer geek snobs." "Geeks who have more fun installing drivers than doing actual fun things" is less catchy, but more precise.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[philspear]

I got that part, the note that appears when you turn on halo explains it okay. But knowing why it is that way doesn't make it not that way: it's still dissapointing.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[philspear]

Halo was self-aware that it was running from the HDD?

Probably not, the note actually sounded like bungie put it up on everyone's screen when they logged on after the update went into effect, whether they had installed halo or were running it from the disc.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[harl]

This.

Fuck me for posting in this thread. You need the mod points more than I need to run my yap.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Babbster]

I like having the best of both worlds. I bought my Xbox 360 last week (after going without for 2 years when I sold my first 360 for a cash infusion), and one of the first things I downloaded was Sid Meier's Pirates! for the 360, a boxed game that's now downloadable. All of this made me glad that the first person on Craigslist who offered to sell me a used 360 was selling an Elite. :)

When we start getting into the 500GB/1TB capacity territory in consoles, combined with high-bandwidth broadband, physical game discs are truly going to be obsolete, much as they're becoming obsolete in terms of video with increased streaming/downloads.

Developers could also optimize their products so that gamers could start playing before the download is complete to compensate for slower downloads. For example, GTA IV installs to the 360 at 6.8GB. When you start the game, you don't need every cutscene, radio station and location, so a downloadable version could probably start being playable at, say, 300MB downloaded.

I'm going to be very happy when discs go the way of, well, all that other stuff that we've replaced with much better stuff. :)

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

-The menu defaults to the "showcase" channel, which advertises Microsoft's newest games. This means that Microsoft, not content with getting us to pay $300+ for a console and $50 / year for Live, feels the need to advertise to us every time we go to the dashboard.

Turn off the Showcase channel :). It's in the settings somewhere.

There is no option to turn off the Showcase channel. You can turn off the Welcome channel. I searched all through the options to turn off Showcase, or at the very least default to the My Xbox channel, and you can't.

I don't turn on my 360 to go shopping, I turn it on to play a game. It's annoying and they really should at the very least add an option to default to My Xbox.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[CronoCloud]

On the PS3, game saves are in a separate "folder", and have info that you can see when you highlight them. For oblivion it shows Level, time spend playing, name of character and a timestamp.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, the PS3 has done this for a long time now.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[ToasterMonkey]

While that is indeed a cool feature, I'm surprised by how far behind the PC gaming experience console gaming is. My friends and I have been doing this for years now. We have a Ventrilo (or Teamspeak) server and we all log in and talk about whatever games we're playing in a channel we all hang out in. Some days we might even be playing completely different games from each other. In fact, some people I know even run multiple copies of Ventrilo at the same time so they can participate in team chat in whatever game they're playing, as well as talk to their friends in another channel.

It's about time console gaming caught up to PC gaming.

Right, so what about the other twenty players on a server that can't hear you? What about the people on the OTHER TEAM eavesdropping on you? (on the public vent servers) On a console, the voice chat is integrated, and has been fairly standard for quite a long time now. On consoles, headsets are the defacto standard, Bluetooth wireless for this generation even. I bet half the people you run into on Vent are trying to pick voices out on their main speakers.

The console's advantage is standardization. ALL players on a server can hear other players with headsets (on the same team, where enforced), nobody is using a $5 PC mic without a headset (with the possible exception of those using the PS Eye as a mic to prove it wasn't a waste of money). The remaining 3.1 sound channels our sound systems support are actually USED, even in low end games.
The PC will NEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVEERRRRRR beat the console when it comes to standardization.

Wild guess, you don't/haven't played console games online much? Cause I played the shit out of PC games the last decade, online and off, and I have no delusions as to where consoles have progressed.
PC games today are basically console games now, with a mouse and keyboard. Most of your big PC title are cross platform (but hey it's an excuse to ship more PC games with surround sound, look on the bright side)
The days of playing on public servers with modded textures, models or sounds are gone. Launching games from your IM or IRC client is mostly (all?) gone. Client side scripting in online games is gonzo.
What made PC games stand out from console games back when consoles started to match PCs in terms of features is mostly gone now. Modems used to be pretty much exclusive to PCs. Consoles all have the same broadband access a PC does now, they all have more ubiquitous, integrated features that PC players have to configure manually. PC game modding is mostly commercialized, shit, I can buy what started as a PC MOD for my playstation right now... WTF is that about? PC's even killed the f'ing joystick!!!! How do you propose a game like Warhawk be created for the PC? It couldn't happen today, or maybe it would, players would just be lumbering around clumsily like in Descent. Ahhh, good times... Descent, back when PCs DID have the advantage... Where did all the multiplayer (on single system) PC games go? Where are the quality (not three year old) $10 PC games? $10 console games display at 1080p with online ranking - standard (Playstations anyway). Where do we find most surround sound systems, on PC's or in entertainment centers? How many PC gamers use headsets? What was the last PC game to ship with bundled headset? That gaming rig come with Bluetooth? And you want to tell me the console is behind when it comes to voice chat, ROFL. Please try again, at least pick text chat, multitasking, web surfing, anything to redeem yourself.

Face it, once game console vendors start pitching mice... PC games wont die, I'm not saying that, but the PC game's uniqueness will be long gone at that point. There will be no need to cater specifically to PC gamers. I'm not just talking about losing RTS exclusivity, I mean at a deeper level, there will be nothing unique to commercial PC games because it won't be special anymore, the nerdy PC game culture would be history. Let's just hope indies can

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[dhavleak]

There is no option to turn off the Showcase channel. You can turn off the Welcome channel.

You're right -- I take that back. I must have been thinking about that option (to turn off the Welcome channel) when I posted that.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Anonymous Coward]

$10 console games display at 1080p with online ranking - standard (Playstations anyway)

1080p my ass. Just because your TV can do it doesn't mean the games are up to that standard. There's a relative handful that display at a native 1080p resolution. The rest just get upscaled.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[Danse]

There are thriving mod communities around many PC games. The mod community saved Oblivion on the PC from remaining the boring trudge-fest that it was upon release and still is on the 360 today. There are somewhere around 10K mods for Oblivion now. Everything from small tweaks to huge compilations that make expansive changes to the world and even add more areas to it. They've changed the game from top to bottom into what it could have been if Bethesda hadn't made every wrong decision possible. Now it's a fantastic game that I still play regularly today. Bet you don't see that happen on consoles anytime soon.

The PC landscape is certainly suffering due to consoles being the most accessible and profitable gaming devices. But PC gaming isn't going to go away. There will always be profit to be made and so some studios will always be around to make PC games. I don't remember who it was now, but one PC developer said that they're welcoming the idea of some of the other studios giving up on PC gaming. Means more sales for them if they keep building games that cater to the unique tastes of PC gamers.

Re:I love it but feel stupid for doing so

[MikeBabcock]

Let's see, Burnout and Super Stardust appear to only have one save game, whereas Armored Core, Oblivion, Devil May Cry, TimeShift, and many others all appear to have multiple saves on my system under my profile. Other games like Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and Dirt have multiple save files for their vehicle customization and time attack saves.

Thae marketplace is now ACTUALLY usable

[Hasney]

My god, someone at MS found the wonder of the alphabet!!!

Honestly, browsing to find DLC is now easy as you don't have to scroll through every game to find the game that you want, you just click on the letter then find the game. That, to me, is by far the NXE's best feature.

Re:Thae marketplace is now ACTUALLY usable

[Anonymous Coward]

My god, someone at MS found the wonder of the alphabet!!!

Honestly, browsing to find DLC is now easy as you don't have to scroll through every game to find the game that you want, you just click on the letter then find the game. That, to me, is by far the NXE's best feature.

They had to wait for someone else (like Sony) to do that a year and half ago with the PSN Store before MS could properly "Innovate" (steal) the concept.

Same as they had to wait for someone to come up with Avatars 2 years before them (Wii) before they could "Innovate" that idea.

Re:Thae marketplace is now ACTUALLY usable

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Sony invented the alphabet, and Nintendo invented avatars.

Sony has probably "borrowed" more from other companies (especially Nintendo), than any other game company.

Re:Thae marketplace is now ACTUALLY usable

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, about time Microsoft discovered the value of a first-letter bucket sort.

Nice small improvement

[kilauea]

It's quite a nice refresh I think. Takes a little getting used to, and I know how people HATE doing that. But it's a useful update to IMO a not very important part of the console.

I mean ffs - you don't even see it if you boot up a disk!

Re:Nice small improvement

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean ffs - you don't even see it if you boot up a disk!

Sure you do, just press the guide button while in the game or movie.

Re:Nice small improvement

[Frac O Mac]

Actually they updated the guide menu (that you often interact with in nearly every game) and the addition of the cross-game party system was a very nice addition. But yes, it does take some getting used to.

Re:Nice small improvement

[kilauea]

You don't *need* to do that though. You can play a game perfectly fine without ever noticing the update has occured is the point.

Re:Nice small improvement

[neumayr]

Except for those games that didn't bother implementing a savegame management system, assuming it's not too much to ask for everyone who wants to try a game to make their own gamer id.
Assasin's Creed does that, and it's annoying as hell.

I hated it.

[Xest]

But I have to admit after 30mins or so of playing around, getting used to where everything had moved to and customising it it's growing on me.

The party system is a nice touch, being able to join a group voice chat with a bunch of friends then taking that group into whatever game you all decide to play is pretty cool. You can make parties private or public with the latter allowing you to jump into an existing party on your friends list, see what they're doing and join a game they may be playing.

Community games wasn't working right for me last night, but what I saw looked decent.

There's a few minor changes people have wanted for a while such as being able to remove zero achievement games such as trials you never went on to buy or games that turned out to be crap that would previously just clutter your achievements/played games list.

The avatar thing isn't bad, although it doesn't really seem to be overly useful yet, apparently the true extent of it's usefulness is still to come. Unfortunately my first attempt at creating an avatar ended up looking like Stalin, and the second like Hitler so I think we need more customization of them, I think this came down to there being a severe lack of shorter hairstyles, apparently Microsoft think 99% of the population have pony tails or just generally long hair whether male or female. Still I did come out with an avatar that looked fairly normal at the end of it but unfortunately as my friend pointed out you can't in fact have green skin.

It's certainly more responsive, some people complaining that now only one of the theme pics you bought gets used rather than one per blade and you can't choose which. I can see why this would be annoying for anyone that paid for a theme but also I can't help but snigger to myself that they were foolish enough to spend money on a theme in the first place.

Old gamerpics can still be used contrary to popular belief, you just have to change back to them after creating your avatar.

So right now to sum up, it's certainly not groundbreaking and it definitely doesn't do anything to make the experience worse. All the useful new features are nice, but nothing that couldn't have come in with the old dashboard whilst all the not-so useful new features such as avatar makes interesting fluff at least if nothing else. Effectively I think it's an attempt to reach out to female and casual gamers with this sort of stuff and the games that will use avatars which is fair enough and it doesn't really infringe on their hardcore gamer userbase either- they will at least appreciate the party system and just jump into game without ever really using the dashboard much. So yeah, good but not in any way groundbreaking, at least yet anyhow, maybe some of the up and coming avatar related stuff will be as cool as Microsoft are telling us or maybe it simply wont. As long as they don't try and make me run round with my avatar in Gears of War 2 or whatever I'll be happy!

Re:I hated it.

[cra]

As long as they don't try and make me run round with my avatar in Gears of War 2 or whatever I'll be happy!

I agree; that would be "The Big Suck", to quote Dizzy. It might be a good laugh for the first few seconds, though. I don't see how my avatar would fit in any of the games I've bought the last year, as they are all rated 18+. I can imagine that my kids would love to have "themselves" running around in *their* games, though.

Re:I hated it.

[endemoniada]

Are you kidding? I would LOVE running around as bad-ass Marcus Fenix and blasting the crap out of all the whimpy new avatar-people. I would laugh all the way to hell :)

I've only played with the dashboard for half an hour, but I like it overall. It's fast, responsive and looks so much better than bland, 2D cardboard slides being pushed around on my screen.
The first thing I did was use the new "install game to harddrive" feature. Since I only have the 20GB harddrive, installing Gears of War 2 pretty much took up half the disk. Even so, I appreciated not having to listen to the DVD drive whine while playing.

I'm looking forward to trying out the party system as well, as soon as my lazy friends get their update and come online.

Re:I hated it.

[SplayedAsterisk]

exactly. my favorite part of the nxe is the relative quiet of running a game from the hard drive. especially when playing at night when the game volume had to be down in order to not piss off the room mates, that roaring disc drive drove me up the wall. the netflix stuff is pretty nice too.

Re:I hated it.

[naoursla]

> As long as they don't try and make me run round with my avatar in Gears of War 2 or whatever I'll be happy!

er... feature cancellation request filed...

Re:I hated it.

[neokushan]

Right, next time a new version of Linux/Windows/MacOS comes out that you upgrade do, DON'T spend time looking around the interface or playing with the new features - take up a new profession, instead!

Re:I hated it.

[KDR_11k]

I don't think many devs will support avatars (or Miis on the Wii) because they want to follow their own art direction. I'm sure with the right design for the game the player's avatar wouldn't look out of place but that limits what the developer can do with the player's character (e.g. force a personality on it).

Re:I hated it.

[cra]

I agree, although I think quite a few of the platform kind of games could do just as well with a custom avatar as with Super Mario, Sonic, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger etc. Not that the games can't benefot from a specially made character, but kids would love having "themselves" running around.

Personally I currently only play games like GoW2, Fallout 3, Rainbow Six series and so on, and my avatar would most definately be out of place in any of those. (Perhaps with the exception of in the brochures, bobbleheads etc in Fallout 3. They are pretty cartoon-like already.)

Re:I hated it.

[sqlrob]

It's certainly more responsive, some people complaining that now only one of the theme pics you bought gets used rather than one per blade and you can't choose which.

More than one do get used, I'm just trying to figure out the rhyme and reason of it. If you go deeper, it does change pictures. By and large, only one does get used in the bulk of the interface.

At least the themes are usable now. I never used any because the text always became unreadable.

Re:I hated it.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a few minor changes people have wanted for a while such as being able to remove zero achievement games such as trials you never went on to buy or games that turned out to be crap that would previously just clutter your achievements/played games list.

What? Where? How? This has been one of my wants for quite some time!

Re:I hated it.

[Blakey Rat]

Unfortunately my first attempt at creating an avatar ended up looking like Stalin, and the second like Hitler so I think we need more customization of them

I think that says more about you than Xbox Live. :)

Re:I hated it.

[not already in use]

Microsoft think 99% of the population have pony tails or just generally long hair whether male or female.

Agreed, and they apparently have no interest in obese avatars. This was a serious disappointment to me. I wanted to create the fattest, ugliest guy I could, balding, not-shaven, shirt not covering belly. No luck. So instead I created a guy so emo the only thing he's missing is a knife to cut himself.

Re:I hated it.

[Xest]

Apparently go to your achievements from the dashboard and find a 0 achievement game and then you should have the option to delete. There was a description of it on www.majornelson.com

Re:I hated it.

[elrous0]

No way. I couldn't stand the indignity of getting fragged by someone with a Hello Kitty avatar.

Re:I hated it.

[Babbster]

Agreed, and they apparently have no interest in obese avatars. This was a serious disappointment to me. I wanted to create the fattest, ugliest guy I could, balding, not-shaven, shirt not covering belly. No luck.

Yeah! I wanted to see myself on the screen, not some slim guy with good hygiene and well-fitting clothes! Viva la fat loser!

Re:I hated it.

[Babbster]

Personally I currently only play games like GoW2, Fallout 3, Rainbow Six series and so on, and my avatar would most definately be out of place in any of those. (Perhaps with the exception of in the brochures, bobbleheads etc in Fallout 3. They are pretty cartoon-like already.

Actually, since the avatar options are fairly limited (I hope this changes to some extent), it wouldn't be that hard for a developer to create models that match up to the various parts of the avatar and then generate an in-game character that looks more appropriate to the setting but still is identifiable as one's avatar. This would be perfect for a game like GTA IV where you could be wandering out Liberty City and see representations of your and your friends' avatars running around.

Great Update

[lucas teh geek]

I'd be really curious to know how they are able to release an update that adds some quite significant features without having to charge for the update. Every time Apple brings out new features on the iPhone, they charge iPod Touch owners for that same update claiming that the Sarbanes-Oxley act means they cant add the features for free (with some sort of contract loophole for the iphone ).

Perhaps Microsoft could let Apple know what their accountants are doing that Apple's cant figure out.

Re:Great Update

[neokushan]

It's simple - the cost of making the update is significantly lower than the estimated revenue gained from all the "casuals" who want an Avatar.

Re:Great Update

[YourExperiment]

Perhaps Microsoft could let Apple know what their accountants are doing that Apple's cant figure out.

Yeah, because Microsoft are well known for giving away stuff for free, rather than charging full price for what should basically be a patch (cough, Windows 7).

Point taken, however, that Apple are even worse for doing this, and kudos to Microsoft in this particular case for giving us something for free.

Re:Great Update

[bigman2003]

Microsoft does give a lot more away.

A more direct comparison would be Zune updates.

Someone who bought the first Zune has all of the functionality of the current Zunes...because the updates are free.

How much does each OS X update cost - vs. a Windows update/service pack?

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

How much does each OS X update cost - vs. a Windows update/service pack?

$0 vs. $0 â" 3 service packs (xp sp 3) vs. 5 (10.5.5)

oh, you were try to troll because you dont understand OS versioning? oh sorry, I guess I fucked that up for you

I guess now mightnt be the best time to let you know there werent actually 94 versions of windows prior to windows 95 either, because versioning is arbitrary. you can pretty much merge the 10 and then first point if it makes it easier to understand for someone with such a low capacity for comprehension. mac os 15 service pack 5, but if they called it that they'd lose the cool name mac os x any more because the x is roman for 10. but you know that already, you're just a low intellect troll

Re:Great Update

[bigman2003]

Over the last 5 years, keeping up with Windows releases would mean that a person would pay for one upgrade- XP to Vista.

On the Mac, the same time period would have a person upgrading from 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 to 10.5.

You *could* merge all OS X releases, if they were free.

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be really curious to know how they are able to release an update that adds some quite significant features without having to charge for the update.

Heh, the one feature you don't want Microsoft to steal from Apple.

Re:Great Update

[sqlrob]

They already have

95->95OSR2
98->98SE->ME

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

Regarding charging for Touch updates:

âoeItâ(TM)s an accounting requirement that if you upgrade a device thatâ(TM)s not on a subscription, you have to charge,â Needham and Company financial analyst Charles Wolf said. âoeApple has a choice of what to charge, but they have to charge.â

As someone who doesn't own a 360, I'm not sure how this applies for XBox owners. Are non-XBox Live users able to get the update for free?

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what version of windows you're buying, but every copy i've ever bought cost $399 or less...

Re:Great Update

[Anpheus]

I paid nothing, but I digress :)

OEM licensing is $170 for Vista Ultimate and cheaper for the other editions, and 6 copies of OSX is $900 ($150*6.)

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha, you think Windows is $600? And you really have to pay each time you update OS X?

Jesus Christ... I knew Apple was a piece of shit company, but I didn't know that they pulled crap like that too.

Seriously, can people stop buying crap from Apple. I am SO sick of Mactards with their "Oh no, this new cool product doesn't support my shitty DRM infested files, it sucks!"

Re:Great Update

[Ohrion]

Kind of obvious actually. Apple had problems because their customers for iTouch weren't subscribed for a SERVICE in association with their device that included updates/patches. iPhone users are though, through their contract with their carrier, and the carrier's contract with Apple. XBox 360 owners are also subscribed for a service through XBox Live, whether through Silver or Gold memberships.

Re:Great Update

[illumin8]

I'd be really curious to know how they are able to release an update that adds some quite significant features without having to charge for the update. Every time Apple brings out new features on the iPhone, they charge iPod Touch owners for that same update claiming that the Sarbanes-Oxley act means they cant add the features for free (with some sort of contract loophole for the iphone ).

This just depends on how the company would like to realize revenue for that particular product. Some companies realize revenue monthly (ie. iPhone), which means they can say any updates are part of your monthly service fee, so they don't need to charge. Xbox Live is also an example of this. You pay a yearly fee, so the NXE is just an extra "service" delivered as part of that fee. Other companies realize the sales revenue all at once (ie. iPod touch), so they need to charge for additional updates. This is more so that they can't claim that all the work they did on updates was a loss in the future and get a tax write-off.

Re:Great Update

[ajdowntown]

Perhaps Microsoft could let Apple know what their accountants are doing that Apple's cant figure out.

Well that's simple. Microsoft is bleeding money and Apple is not. Apple, despite it's best efforts, cannot manage to bleed money like Microsoft.

Re:Great Update

[pandrijeczko]

Can I have your email address please?

I was planning on buying a cheap £400 laptop (=$600) that will probably come with a Vista license that I won't use as I will install Linux on it.

But I'm more than happy to sell you the Vista license at a "bargain price" of $500!

Re:Great Update

[lucas teh geek]

Xbox Live is also an example of this. You pay a yearly fee, so the NXE is just an extra "service" delivered as part of that fee.

if only gold members got the update then that would make sense, but users with silver accounts get the update too. having a silver account is on pretty much aligned with having an account on apples app store, neither costs a cent and you pretty much need one to use either product to it's full extent.

Re:Great Update

[lucas teh geek]

Kind of obvious actually. Apple had problems because their customers for iTouch weren't subscribed for a SERVICE in association with their device that included updates/patches. iPhone users are though, through their contract with their carrier, and the carrier's contract with Apple. XBox 360 owners are also subscribed for a service through XBox Live, whether through Silver or Gold memberships.

but silver memberships dont cost anything. xbl silver is no more of a subscription than having an account on the app store is a subscription

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the fucking Gabe and Ernie Pennie Arcade and stuff adverting has something to do with it?

Re:Great Update

[radish]

You'll also get the update from game discs if your console isn't online.

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft does give a lot more away.

A more direct comparison would be Zune updates.

Someone who bought the first Zune has all of the functionality of the current Zunes...because the updates are free.

How much does each OS X update cost - vs. a Windows update/service pack?

Each Mac OS X update is free (there were 10 or 11 updates for 10.4).

Each new version costs $129. Just because they increment by only .1 has nothing to do with what is added in each release. I do think they have released a bit too frequently in the past though, but the gap between 10.4 and 10.5 was much more reasonable.

Besides, you do realise that Windows versioning from 2000 and XP was was .1 also - from 5.0 to 5.1 - how much did going from 2000 to XP cost?

Re:Great Update

[bigman2003]

I'm not sure why all the Apple fans feel the need to 'educate' me on the OS X updates. I know how it works.

My only point was that there have been 4 non-free Mac updates in the same time that Windows had one.

Re:Great Update

[Anonymous Coward]

My only point was that there have been 4 non-free Mac updates in the same time that Windows had one.

And everyone was saying how MS had to come out with a new OS already because its core OS was getting long in the tooth and that Apple was much better for updating more frequently.

Of course, none of the updates from either company were "mandatory".

Can't get it

[Peregr1n]

Unfortunately I bought the Arcade version of the xbox a few weeks ago, so have a pitiful 256mb of memory to play with. With all my saved games and a bare minimum of downloaded content, I have nowhere near 128mb free to get the new front end.

I know, I know, I can just buy a bigger card or HDD... but it just bugs me that a) the update doesn't write over the existing front end, and b) Microsoft has known the release date for this for a long time, but still sold the Arcade with inadequate storage.

Re:Can't get it

[KDR_11k]

The console with the HDD is 50€ more than the Arcade bundle, you really saved your money on the wrong end there.

I don't think the new frontend offers much for you anyway, it's more about all the downloadable stuff you can buy and installing games to your HDD so with just a memory card (nice feature if you have a game with annoying load times, still requires inserting the disc though) you probably don't have a use for it.

Re:Can't get it

[NoobixCube]

I think they had a promotion going with cheap hard drives for Arcade and Core system owners, though I may be wrong. If I had any choice at the time, I probably would have bought an Arcade or Core system, since a memory card would have been more than enough for my saved games; but I've since fallen victim to the marketing machine, and I regularly download demos and sometimes buy stuff with MS points.

On a side note, is it any coincidence that Microsoft share an acronym with a degenerative, terminal illness of the nervous system?

Re:Can't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has known about it for a long time yes. Thus they created an upgrade scheme for those who would have insufficient memory space.

http://www.xboxstorageupgrade.com/hh/web/home/hhauthentication.jsp

Based on your serial number and console id it will offer you what it can. I think if you had 256MB memory cart, they would give you a free 256MB, if you have a 256MB you get offered a refurbished 20GB for $25 AUD inc postage - however theres a bit of a wait on them.

Re:Can't get it

[antonlacon]

HDD Upgrade Program

Re:Can't get it

[EnglishTim]

You can get a very low cost reconditioned hard drive from Microsoft:

http://www.xboxstorageupgrade.com/

I can't remember the details, but I seem to remember you can basically get a 20GB hard drive for £12.99 or something like that.

But yeah - it is weird that they're still selling the Arcade pack. My guess is that it's useful for them to have that £130 pricepoint. Also I guess there will be people who don't even have their Xbox networked and the Arcade version would suit them.

Re:Can't get it

[neokushan]

the update doesn't write over the existing front end

As a matter of fact, it does. The update comes in two parts - an 8Mb dash update and a 128Mb "content" update. The "content" update contains little more than the Avatars as far as I can tell, the dash update (which requires no extra space) contains everything else, including the interface. You can get by just fine with just this, but you wont be able to connect to live. Considering you only had 256Mb of storage, live was clearly never a priority to you, anyway.

Re:Can't get it

[Peregr1n]

Thanks for that, it's been genuinely useful... now all I have to complain about is that Microsoft haven't let me know about that program themselves!

Re:Can't get it

[powerlord]

Considering you only had 256Mb of storage, live was clearly never a priority to you, anyway.

Yeah ... its not like XBox360 Arcade users might want to communicate with friends, or play games on-line or something.

Re:Can't get it

[spire3661]

ACtually MS went so far as to offer a free HDD or mem card to those that bought units with not enough memory to run NXE. You DO have the hardware to run it, you choose not to.

I just got done making my new Mii

[NoobixCube]

Everyone says they "stole" the whole Mii concept from Nintendo, but Nintendo hardly invented the idea of a customizable avatar for interacting with the world. I was disappointed at the absence of a Vault-tec jumpsuit (or any set of overalls I could pretend was a Vault-tec jumpsuit) in the outfit section. I guess I'll have to buy one if I want it that badly. Also, clothes lack customizable colour as far as I can see. If you choose a shirt, and it happens to be red, you can't just change it to blue, you have to choose a blue shirt.

Re:I just got done making my new Mii

[iainl]

I can see why, with the clothing colours. Otherwise everyone would use the Ring of Light T-shirt, and change it to a red one.

Re:I just got done making my new Mii

[gEvil (beta)]

Everyone says they "stole" the whole Mii concept from Nintendo, but Nintendo hardly invented the idea of a customizable avatar for interacting with the world.

No, Nintendo wasn't the first to use avatars. However, the ones they did make were fairly unique looking. Now Microsoft's look almost identical to them. If that's not ripping off the Mii, then I don't know what is.

Re:I just got done making my new Mii

[prockcore]

MS's avatars look closer to those IMVU instant messaging avatars than to Miis.

Re:I just got done making my new Mii

[MBraynard]

It's not called 'ripping off,' it's called 'embracing and extending.'

Re:Does it work on the train?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did you even bother to post then? If you're not interested in this update, what makes you think are people are interested in knowing that?

...yes you can

[muel]

Dude, Microsoft has been offering free memory cards and cheap hard drives to folks just like you: http://www.xboxstorageupgrade.com/ ... If your system's serial #/console id check out as "arcade," then MS will offer you a 20GB hard drive and 3 months of XBL Gold for $30. Not free, but not shabby, either.

Re:...yes you can

[Anonymous Coward]

OOo free 512MB card or $20 for a 20GB hard drive?

Even giving things away, MS comes off cheap.

512MB is barely enough to install the new interface and still have something useful. Its literally the least that MS could do without it being blatantly obvious that they've been screwing everyone who bought a XBox Arcade. 1GB of flash is still ~$5 through newegg, and I doubt the bulk prices are that much cheaper for 1GB than 512MB. MS is just trying to hook people on smaller things so they'll be forced to pay more for an upgrade later.

For $50 I could get a 150GB laptop hard-drive and replace the old 40GB hard-drive from a PS3.

sound missing over hdmi

[masterQba]

There have been some reports of people having issues with missing sound when using HDMI. I have the same problem and would like to give a heads up to anyone who is going to upgrade or had the same bug appear. To my knowledge there's no sure fire way of solving the issue. A workaround is possible by using a different sound output.

Re:sound missing over hdmi

[Anonymous Coward]

I've only had that issue once, removing, and replacing the HDMI cable worked like a charm (just took it out and put it back in) I'm not sure what happened in the first place, just one day it wouldn't play any sound. Not saying this is the issue... but it worked for me.

Re:sound missing over hdmi

[masterQba]

it's been one of the things i tried but no dice... kinda sucks

Re:sound missing over hdmi

[lngshot1988]

You know my roommate had the same problem and he went to the audio and it was set on dolby 5.1 when he was playing out of tv speakers. It worked perfectly after that. Just a small check that could help with the sound.

Re:sound missing over hdmi

[Anonymous Coward]

I use HDMI and haven't had any issues.

Overall I like NXE... it isn't doing anything to blow me away, but then I'm getting it for "free" so it's great. Being able to stream Netflix and do group chats are great. Found the avatar customization options a little lacking, but then I'm kind of a customization freak.

Did Sony pull the selection or was it Netflix?

[DrXym]

If Sony movies are not being streamed to the 360, it's probably because there was a clause in the original contract agreed to and signed by both parties that prohibits it. I can't blame Sony if they added a clause saying forbidding streaming content to a competing device covered by some kind of exclusivity deal. If true, it's smart and prescient of Sony to have done it considering Netflix then went and signed such a deal with Microsoft.

Re:Did Sony pull the selection or was it Netflix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Streaming rental video isn't going to shift PS3 units. It's not in their interest to restrict 360 owners from their content. It's probably a simple legal oversight that will be rectified in due course. Each territory will need addressing too.

Re:Did Sony pull the selection or was it Netflix?

[DrXym]

You say its not in their interests, but clearly it is or they wouldn't have added such conditions.

I'm sure it sucks a lot if you want to stream movies without any of this BS, but this should not be unexpected. Netflix knew full well what they were signing to and must have been aware of the repercussions if they later signed an exclusivity deal with Microsoft. I'm sure their deal MS has all kinds of clauses and restrictions if Netflix decided to allow Netflix on the PS3.

This kind of contractual bullshit and DRM is always going to affect streaming platforms, especially when one of the players tries to moneyhat exclusivity. It's more proof if any more were required that digital downloads have a long way to grow up, including adopting a common platform for DRM and format, before they're going to get more widespread adoption.

Re:Did Sony pull the selection or was it Netflix?

[maxume]

Please do not call treating customers like gibbering baboons "smart and prescient".

Re:Did Sony pull the selection or was it Netflix?

[DrXym]

Netflix customers are customers of Netflix, not Sony. Netflix pays money to Sony for streaming its movies. The terms under which that arrangement is handled is defined in a contract. It is absolutely in Sony's own interest to include a clause that stops a major competitor (e.g. Microsoft) buying up exclusivity and getting to stream Sony's movies to a competing device and prohbits streaming to their own. Therefore it was smart and prescient for Sony to include the clause because Netflix has indeed accepted a large money hat from Microsoft. The situation would have been intolerable otherwise. Take solace from the fact that at some point contracts will be renegotiated and movies will probably turn up on the 360 at some point.

Re:Did Sony pull the selection or was it Netflix?

[maxume]

I don't own a 360, so I could give a shit (well, I would factor the behavior into purchasing decisions and so on).

Really, there isn't any reason Sony should worry about Netflix going exclusive or whatever, they should be licensing the movies at a price where they make money and not worry about it after that (making contracts that try to create revenues for other divisions is what I am talking about with the gibbering baboons).

I don't like the idea that Netflix would sign such an exclusive agreement, but given the availability of upteen other devices that work nearly identically, I suspect that the term is rather short, or that it is only exclusive on Microsoft's side (that is, Microsoft agreed not to bring in a competitor and Netflix is free to do whatever).

Re:Did Sony pull the selection or was it Netflix?

[Anonymous Coward]

No it's not smart.

Because it's one of the most fitting situations I've ever seen for the saying "cutting your nose of to spite your face".

Sony really aren't going to lose out on PS3 console sales IMO over this but will lose a massive cut of the profits they could've gained by keeping their selection in there. I understand they don't necessarily want to help a competitor but to do something like that to spite a competitor at your own expense does seem rather foolish. It's certainly not going to harm Microsoft that's for sure.

I hate it

[Spacelord]

I applied the update yesterday, even though I wasn't wild about the screenshots I had seen so far. The announcements by Microsoft did however promise I could still use the old blade interface if I wanted, so I thought: why not give it a try?

The install went fairly smoothly, taking only a few minutes. Then I had to create an avatar *ugh*, this was my first turn-off. I've never been a fan of avatar systems, but if they're going to make it mandatory they could at least have thrown in some models that don't look childish and cartoonish. So I just selected some random character, hoping I could switch it off later.

Then I played around with the interface. It is fairly easy to figure out, and I could quickly find most functions I was looking for, however I couldn't help but think that the blade interface felt simpler, more intuitive and more mature. In the blade system, if you were looking for something, you just had to select the right tab and everything was available from there. In the new system, you have to navigate in 2 "dimensions", first select the right channel, then look for the right tab, then go into the tab. The blade system also made better use of screen real estate. A lot of screen space is wasted now because they chose to work with some kind of 3D representation.

After using it for a while other things started to annoy me. I find the color scheme rather ugly for instance. It's all dull grey or migraine inducing green and selecting a different theme doesn't seem to change it. The sound effects got on my nerves too, instead of the cool muted *swish* sounds of the old blade system, the new sounds are much more *bling bling* and in your face (I don't know how else to describe it). Then, there's no way to get rid of your avatar. It's not like it does anything useful, it just stands there looking silly and generally being an eyesore.

Then I started looking for new features. Netflix doesn't work outside of the US, so I couldn't use that. The install to HDD option could be handy, but I don't find it essential. The loading times never really bothered me that much anyway, it's having to switch discs when you want to play a different game that bothers me. To my disappointment no new video or audio codecs have been added, so some divx and mp4 files still don't play, there's still no support for 5.1 surround sound in divx files and still no support for subtitles. As a media player, it has not become more useful to me.

So after a few hours of playing around with it, I decided that I didn't like it, and I started looking for the option to revert to the old style interface. Only, there wasn't one! Sure, when you push the big X button a menu pops up that looks remotely like the old blades, but it's not fullscreen and in no way a replacement interface. Now I feel cheated.

My conclusion is that Microsoft spent way too much time and effort trying to invent a completely new interface, which in many ways is worse than the old system, when they could have just offered an upgraded blade system and spent all the time and effort on real features that are actually useful.

Re:I hate it

[greebowarrior]

I concur. I much preferred the blades, the new 'experience' is far too fisher-price for my liking.

I installed the update with an open mind, and proceeded to explore. After roughly 30 seconds, my initial curiosity was replaced with anger.
The whole 3d panels interface isn't particularly intuitive, and my existing heroes theme looks like utter arse now, with over 70% of the artwork covered up by the pointless grey 'floor'
Hopefully, they'll give us an option of having the blades back in a future update.

It seems like the only point of the update was to get some use out of the money they'd spent on designing Aero/MCE

Re:I hate it

[tcolberg]

You weren't forced to make an Avatar. When I did my update, I wanted to get to test Netflix as quickly as possible, so I just pulled up the guide and exited out of the Avatar builder to the dashboard. Just like before with any other application.

You're complaining about having to do too many clicks around the interface? With the old blades, you had to cycle to the blade you wanted, say Marketplace, and then scroll down to the category you wanted. Same with the new system, but instead of moving through the categories horizontally, you scroll through them vertically and then choose your category or item by scrolling horizontally. Except now the categories and items are laid out in only two axes rather than having items scattered all through out the blade they were on. The layout is cleaner and more logical because of the changes.

MSFT didn't promise that they were keeping the blades. They specifically said that the NXE was to replace the blade system and that the blades would only be preserved in the Guide system.

The Avatars may be useless and silly, but really, an "eyesore"? Maybe you should make a better looking one?

I'm happy to finally have an OS that's responsive and allows me to scroll through and read descriptions for items quickly. I think you're a bit worked up over the idea of "change" so much that you can't see the improvements.

Re:I hate it

[EvilIdler]

When the avatar creation pops up, press the guide button, then Y. No avatard!

Re:I hate it

[Anonymous Coward]

avast! I'd never miss the opportunity of using the cartoonish fag avatar in fallout!

Re:I hate it

[MMMDI]

Here's some food for thought. I've had my Xbox for a couple of years now, and in that time, both the woman of the house and my daughter have had no interest in it. Sure, they watch me play every now and then, but that was really the extent of it.

Yesterday, they saw me playing around with the avatar. My wife then wanted to make her own avatar, which led to her getting her own account on my box, which further led to her checking out the arcade and buying a couple of games ("I didn't know they had Pac-Man! Frogger! Whoa!"). My kid, not content with her own account on my box, now wants one for herself for Christmas.

Funny how that silly little system brings in the casual crowd, eh?

Re:I hate it

[Anonymous Coward]

that's one hell of a well written troll you have there. so well written, in fact, you seem to have suckered some moderators into believing it's insightful. if only they could cut through overly verbose bullshit to see your complaining about having to pick an avatar (did having to choose a gamer pic traumatise you on the previous dash?), immaturity of the dash (let me guess, you're in late high school and trying to prove you're all grown up is important do you? you will grow out of it) and not liking the default colour (cry me a fucking river, pick another one), perhaps they would have modded you correctly: troll.

oh, and I have to ask you, you complain about the sounds on the new dash board leading me to think you're fussy about sound (fussier than me), but then completely ignore the biggest draw of installing to hdd; the lack of dvd drive noise. loading speed improvements are just an added bonus, being able to shut that jet engine of a dvd drive up is a feature that should have been there from day one... yet somehow you fail to even acknowledge it?

Re:I hate it

[Anonymous Coward]

true enough

my girlfriend isnt a non-gamer, but not up to my levels (she only just has an 360, my old one, since i bought an elite two weeks ago), and she somehow didnt understand the blade interface (i dont see how, it was a bit cumbersome, but quite clear), and after the update she couldnt stop raving to me on the phone about how nice the new dash is, she just made a live acount, and will be getting a gold subscription and all that...

I personally like the update as well, some things could be better (avatars seem a bit gimmicky, the 'ground' obscures the theme with some bland colour), but the speed gain in accessing the marketplace (which still could be better... but ill take any improvement), the (perceived) speedup from the hard disk install (CoD3 did seem to load much quicker) and faster acces to just about anything make it well worth it imho.

now if only MS would publish some cool xbox originals (that i dont already have for the original xbox)... All the worthwile ones i already own.. (maybe halo, but i still feel weird paying â 17 for it..)

Re:I hate it

[Spacelord]

You weren't forced to make an Avatar. When I did my update, I wanted to get to test Netflix as quickly as possible, so I just pulled up the guide and exited out of the Avatar builder to the dashboard. Just like before with any other application.

That's not really very obvious is it? I didn't even know you could do that. There was just no obvious way to say "skip avatar creation".

The Avatars may be useless and silly, but really, an "eyesore"? Maybe you should make a better looking one?

You don't get it. I dislike the whole idea of having an avatar (why do I need one?), *and* I don't like the cartoonish cutesy style in which they are implemented, "fisher price" style as someone called it here. There is no way to change that, no matter which hairstyle or sunglasses you put on it. And even if I could make a better looking one it would be like having a better looking Clippy in Office, still pointless ;)

MSFT didn't promise that they were keeping the blades. They specifically said that the NXE was to replace the blade system and that the blades would only be preserved in the Guide system.

Well that's not how I interpreted it. I remember reading an interview by one of the MS guys who said that they were keeping the old interface around because there would always be people who would not dig the new interace.

I'm happy to finally have an OS that's responsive and allows me to scroll through and read descriptions for items quickly. I think you're a bit worked up over the idea of "change" so much that you can't see the improvements.

It's not that I'm worked up about the idea of "change", I just don't like this particular change. I do see the improvements, but they are minor things compared to the things that bug me about the new interface.

Re:I hate it

[svendsen]

Question for you. When you created an account for your wife does that account need to pay for gold membership? Or xbox live arcade games?

For example my Account A I bought Worms (hmmm violent worm goodness) but when I set up another account it could only play the trial version of it.

Re:I hate it

[MMMDI]

You do need to pay for the gold membership for that account if you want that extra set of features (can't speak for your household, but my ol' lady doesn't need it). You do get a free month when you make the account, though.

For arcade games, I didn't notice a problem... I just tested again with Doom (which I bought on my account), and I could play the full version from her account with no problems. I've heard of that getting screwy if you buy the game on one hard drive, replace said drive, and redownload the game, but I've never had to replace the drive so I don't know how it works.

Re:I hate it

[TheBracket]

I've been in contact with MS support this morning over the dull greens. I'm partially red/green color blind, and it is IMPOSSIBLE to read some of the text on the green squares. Changing theme makes the background work, but I can't seem to figure out how to not have green boxes with white/yellow text. Since that's basically invisible to me (I had my wife read the text for me last night!), the update has rendered the interface unusable for me. :-(

(Thus far, MS support has been apologetic and promised to get back to me -we'll see how it turns out!)

Re:I hate it

[Sporkinum]

I pretty much agree with most everything you said. Our 360 is pretty much only used as a media center extender. The new interface has made it difficult to get to the area you want. The menus for music and videos use larger fonts and graphics, so you see fewer items on the screen at once. The highlighted text bar is bright green with light grey text. Makes it difficult to read. There is no option to sort directories before filenames, so directories are mixed in with the file names now. Videos didn't work initially, and required a re-download of the codec pack. Codec support is still weird, in that videos that play fine by going through the videos menu, won't play inside of the media center interface. It also seems to have too much of the "are you sure you want to do that?" Vista UAC type crap.

I didn't know about bypassing the avatard creation. Too bad you can't delete the 'tard and do without.

The simplified blade interface by hitting the silver "X" ball is nice, and would be better if you could make that the default.

Re:I hate it

[MistrBlank]

Welcome to the death of hardcore gaming. Everyone is cashing in on the casual crowd now, and why not, you get more cash out of the masses than you do a small core geek crowd.

Re:I hate it

[Grimbleton]

My fiancee was pretty lukewarm about the 360 (She loves my Gamecube and Wii games though, and Final Fantasy on the PS2) but I had the same experience as you today.

Although, she's also pretty hardcore about MMOs and RTS games on PC, so she's not really all that casual, just the 360 never caught her attention.

Re:I hate it

[Blakey Rat]

Accessibility is FAR too neglected in the gaming field. I'm not color-blind myself, but I've sometimes felt like a heel playing against a couple of my best friends who are. In Starcraft, for example, the dots on the mini-map are virtually useless for color-blind gamers. And virtually every game uses Red/Green on the HUD to indicate friend or foe.

The really sad thing is that other groups at Microsoft have excellent accessibility features. Xbox 360 developers must not work very closely with them.

I hope they get you squared away.

Re:I hate it

[Anonymous Coward]

The way it works is thus:

When you purchase something from the Marketplace, the rights management tags it with two keys - one associated with that account, the other with the hardware key of the Xbox it was purchased on. You can then play/use that content with your account on any machine you actively log into XBL (say, carrying your gamertag account over to a friend's house and logging in there), or any other account on that particular machine can use the content (online or offline).

Re:I hate it

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say mod parent up, but they're already +5 Insightful.

The thing that really bugs me, beyond the avatars which just piss me off, is that this new interface has all the same problems that Vista's "flip 3D" task switcher has. You can only see the option you're on, plus a bit of the next few. That's a terrible menu system. The blades at least worked like a tiered menu system, where you can see all options on your current level at once, making it easy to navigate. I just wish the "quick launch" blade-like interface could be made the default in the NXE.

Re:I hate it

[PaganRitual]

Yeah and to most of us this was blantantly the point from when it first started up. Forced to create stupid avatars, even given the option to take a photo for your gamer picture, 'games summary' pages that are simply even more achievement information than before, rows of constant marketing and HAY COME BUY MORE STUFF WHATS THAT YOU WANT TO PLAY A GAME (yeah okay thats over there whatever).

They actively distract you from wanting to play a damn game. Even the 'Play Game' option itself is simply a simple disc picture with the game icon teeny tiny in the corner. Much better to go the prettier looking next page over with full screen game box pictures on your 'game collection' that then allows it to load all the related DLC that might be there for your game.

Yes, we appreciate that all you want is our money, and that's adorable, but it's starting to get blatant and kind of pathetically desperate, guys.

Re:I hate it

[Dash-o-Salt]

That's why I found it interesting when looking through the settings for Left 4 Dead that they provide a 'color blind' option. Switching it on apparently swaps the color of the health bars etc. to a color that's more easily visible for these people.

This is the first time I've seen such an option in a game, and I think it's a cool trend I'd like to see continue.

New Xbox "Experience", Eh?

[BlueStrat]

So how *did* they manage to change the color of the "Ring Of Death" over the 'net?

I keed, I keed! :P

Strat

Re:New Xbox "Experience", Eh?

[Ash-Fox]

So how *did* they manage to change the color of the "Ring Of Death" over the 'net?

Now you've gone and angered it.

Re:New Xbox "Experience", Eh?

[BlueStrat]

        So how *did* they manage to change the color of the "Ring Of Death" over the 'net?

Now you've gone and angered it [quickfox.org].

"Dr. Chandra taught me a song..."

"Dai- sey.....Dai- sey....."

"I can feel it, Dave. I can feel my mind going..."

:D

Strat

Re:Does it work on the train?

[iainl]

Wake me up when your laptop can make toast. Until then I'll stick with my toaster. And I bet you care about that just as much as I do about your opinion on the dash update.

Where does this leave XBMC?

[Pugwash69]

Now they'll have to change MC360 for XBMC...

Re:Does it work on the train?

[Bert64]

Are you referring to the Playstation 2 (PS2), or the old IBM system known as the PS/2 ?

If it's the latter as your post suggests, it's not surprising it hardly gets used...

What's after NXE?

[IBBoard]

If this is the "NXE" system (the New XBox Experience) then what will it be when they re-engineer it again? The NNXE (the New NXE)? While NXE might look "cool" to some people, putting "New" in the branding of something isn't a great idea for the future!

Re:What's after NXE?

[Hasney]

Probably UXE. ULTIMATE XE.

Re:What's after NXE?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows NT = 'New Technology' also.

Re:What's after NXE?

[B5_geek]

Well it has worked ok for New Coke, and great for New York.

Re:What's after NXE?

[IBBoard]

There's a "New New Coke" and a "New New York" (other than Futurama)?

Re:What's after NXE?

[psydeshow]

Well it has worked ok for New Coke, and great for New York.

Given recent budget cuts due to Wall St. collapse, I think they're about to bring out York Classic and switch us back to the old-school flavors of graffiti and gun violence.

In a few years, you may not even be able to get New York any more.

Re:Does it work on the train?

[N1AK]

The comment at the end of your post made me laugh especially as you are currently modded Troll when offtopic would be more appropriate.
No one gives a shit about your families mobile gaming habits, even less so those who are reading articles about a completely unrelated subject.

Re:Does it work on the train?

[Ross D Anderson]

Then you're completely missing the point in a console...

The best new feature: 16:10

[davidbrit2]

I was fully gung-ho as soon as I read I'd be able to run my 360 at my monitor's native resolution (1680x1050). Yes, it's letterboxed (very slightly), but I can finally play stuff at the proper aspect ratio, and without any excessive smoothing performed by the monitor itself.

Go to the top of the class !

[ciderVisor]

Microsoft have been very, very clever with this update. Whereas previously, they were touting a high-def console as a loss-leader, they've now turned everything on its head and made the Live Experience itself the 'killer app'. As you point out, the avatars will pull in the casual crowd and the slickness of accessing the important parts of multi-player online games will make other systems appear very clunky by comparison.

If you want a great upscaling DVD player / BD player, go for the PS3. If you want a great gaming experience, get the Xbox. I never thought I'd find myself saying that !

Re:Go to the top of the class !

[Anonymous Coward]

The 360 Elite upscales dvd's right out of the box, which is fine for the vast majority of consumers. So you could say the 360 is close to the complete entertainment system. I don't think Blu-ray is going to be around very long, before something better comes out anyway, so I don't see the point in buying a Blu-ray player when I can upscale regular dvds and it still looks awesome.

Sony should be charged with something

[erroneus]

It can't be right that Sony, a company that makes a competing game console, should also pull the entertainment content from one of the markets because that market allowed a competing game console in as well. This smacks of wrongness though I am sure sure it qualifies as anti-trust, they are certainly linking one completely different product/service offering to another as leverage against a competitor. There is something really broken about Sony's behavior.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony should be charged with something

I suggest you charge them with a pitchfork.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[theaceoffire]

Somehow I feel that buying exclusives and preventing competition is far worse than denying access to some of your movies.

Hell, it probably would have been *easier* to make a PS3 interface, since it comes with a web browser and flash9 support.

My annoyance aside, I have no doubt if/when Netflix creates a PS3 interface, MS will influence some content to not play there.

On a side note, you noticed the "Order Dominioes from your TIVO" stuff? I am going to go ahead and predict a version of that for both the 360 and ps3.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[gEvil (beta)]

My annoyance aside, I have no doubt if/when Netflix creates a PS3 interface, MS will influence some content to not play there.

I seriously doubt that will happen since the new Netflix interface uses Silverlight (and the old one used WMP/WMV).

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[sanosuke001]

Are you talking about the NetFlix "Not Available on XBOX" issue?

If these items are available on their console and not on the XBOX, don't you think the PS3 would be a better choice? Why would Sony want to HELP the 360?

Seems like a very logical business decision to me...

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix will never come to the PS3: Sony offers a competing service on the PS3 already.

Granted it's nowhere near as nice as Netflix, and you have to pay for every single title individually, and you have to use the retarded PlayStation Store to use it.

But it exists, and Sony does not play well with others, so Netflix will never be released for PS3. There's a reason you should never buy hardware from a content company.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[erroneus]

Columbia [owned by Sony but is not Sony] had a deal with Netflix. Columbia has nothing to do with Netflix other than this deal. It is to the benefit of Columbia employees and shareholders that the deal remain in place. However, since Sony owns Columbia, Sony has decided to wield its Columbia as an anticompetitive weapon against Microsoft and its XBox 360. Sony is effectively using a 3rd, uninvolved party, as an anti-competitive weapon against Sony's competitor.

If Columbia is wholly owned and is held privately by Sony, the matter is still somewhat questionable. But if Columbia is still publicly traded, then a whole slew of charges could be filed against Sony for this move. You realize that it is a matter of law that a corporation should act in the best interests of its shareholders and not at the direction of a simple controlling majority shareholder. At the very least, presuming Columbia is public and shares are owned by parties other than Sony, then there is room for a tremendous lawsuit which could result in all manner of chaos including the removal of top executives at Columbia.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Anonymous Coward]

But it exists, and Sony does not play well with others, so Netflix will never be released for PS3.

Well ... these guys http://www.themediamall.com/playon have a media server you can install on your PC that will stream Netflix (and Hulu, and others), to your PS3 (and XBox and soon Wii).

You're right, its not a "Native" app on the PS3 (and probably won't be)) but it seems to work just fine for Hulu (don't have Netflix so I can't comment).

Personally I like the PSN Store and have found it pretty responsive and intuitive (especially since the revamp ~april).

There's a reason you should never buy hardware from a content company.

I'll try to take the high-road and not make comments like "There's a reason you should never buy hardware from a software company." ... darn. I'll have to try harder next time.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Anonymous Coward]

All this, despite the fact the pictures held by Sony Pictures itself are still available for streaming via NetFlix on the 360? Knock it off with the damn conspiracy theories. Bash Sony all you want, there's more than enough material floating around out there, but this just makes you sound like a retard.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Anonymous Coward]

Bollux.

Its not much different from when NBC pulled out of iTunes.

... However, since Sony owns Columbia ... Sony is effectively using a 3rd, uninvolved party, as an anti-competitive weapon against Sony's competitor.

Can't have it both ways. If Sony owns Columbia then they are not an uninvolved third party.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Anonymous Coward]

It can't be right that Sony, a company that makes a competing game console, should also pull the entertainment content from one of the markets because that market allowed a competing game console in as well. This smacks of wrongness though I am sure sure it qualifies as anti-trust, they are certainly linking one completely different product/service offering to another as leverage against a competitor. There is something really broken about Sony's behavior.

Not really sure if I am getting your meaning right since that post is really hard to parse.

You do realize that MS has made a deal with Netflix to exclusively have the service on the Xbox and not the PS3. So MS says 'Sony, you can't do ANY Netflix movies on the PS3' and Sony goes 'MS you can't have any Sony Netflix movies on the Xbox'. IANAL (and you aren't either) so I won't speak to legal terms, but I find it hard to get upset with Sony over this issue.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[spire3661]

Also, Sony OWNS those movies, MS owns no movies

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[gEvil (beta)]

Well, yeah, there's obviously that aspect, too. But wait, don't they have some stake in the Dungeon Siege movies? Not that anyone would want to pay to see those... : p

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Xoth]

Well yea I think the mention of mega-corps duking it out is spot on... and that is the problem! As I see it sony and microsoft are not part of the film industry and shouldnt be in a position to dictate film distribution. So this issue to is like other online distribution venues in that no one place can offer "all" the film content that is available due to separate corporate ownership.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[Anonymous Coward]

...sony and microsoft are not part of the film industry...

Except for Sony, who does play a large part in film and television production and distribution.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[mweather]

I've been watching Netflix on my ps3 all week. Just pipe it through your media server.

Re:Sony should be charged with something

[erroneus]

This is where you get into that unfair leveraging of one market to influence and affect another. Say, leveraging your operating system dominance to clear out the competition in the browser market... or to create a dominance in office software. In this case, it is leveraging one's pull in the film entertainment industry to degrade the service offerings of a competitor. "Competition" is all about doing better than the next guy, not preventing the next guy from succeeding. At the very least it is "cheating" and morally wrong... in some cases, it's anti-trust and potentially punishable in criminal court.

DD install

[rreay]

I don't really care if the HDD install make games load faster. I want them to run quieter. The XBox optical drive is loud.

Love it!

[svendsen]

And so does my fiance. She wanted to try Netflix. So after 10 sec. download netflix was running. Joined Netflix in under a minute. Clicked on the first move to stream now 1 second later it was in my queue on my 360 hit play and wow...

Turned it off. Told my fiance what to do (turned off the 360 so she had to start from scratch). 1 min later we are watching Panâ(TM)s Labrynth in HD never missed a beat. bye bye cable!

Fallout 3 is faster on the loading screens, and less popups Ive noticed. The only thing I have an issue with is I couldn't get my USB keyboard to work in the 360...

Re:Love it!

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix doesn't offer HD in their "Watch Now" selection.

Re:Love it!

[svendsen]

Yes it does...go to watch now..click genres...and there is an HD section....7 pages worth of stuff but it will grow

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

The party system is good but needs work.

[whoismoses]

I first thought that the party system we could all join a party and then join a game and we would be in a party of the game. Not sure if this works for all games as two friends and I were in a party a joined a Left 4 Dead (OMG this game is intense) game and I had to still invite them. So we where playing with some other guy we didn't know and he wasn't talking. We were pissed that he wasn't talking but later we realized that we were all still in our party chat. I guess that is my fault though. I didn't try HALO3, GOW2, or COD4 so I don't know if the party system works with some games and not others.

Netflix

[elrous0]

I love the Netflix feature. The only problem I had with it was that only 7 of my 11 playable videos in my queue actually showed up on my 360. The rest must have been owned by Sony, who in typically Sony douchebag fashion, refused to allow Sony videos to be streamed to 360's. Other than that, it worked flawlessly for me. I loved that the setup was so simple (just enter a simple one-time code when you're logged into your Netflix account and whalla, you're all set!)

Re:Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, this is the last time I see that word abused and just stand by watching. It's VOILA; not 'wallah', not 'wahlah' and NOT 'whalla'. It's a real word. It has a proper spelling. Seriously.

It's French.

Re:Netflix

[elrous0]

Sorry, like all decent people I only write in English.

Animal Crossing: City Folk

[tepples]

although I think quite a few of the platform kind of games could do just as well with a custom avatar as with Super Mario, Sonic, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger etc. Not that the games can't benefot from a specially made character, but kids would love having "themselves" running around.

Running around as yourself? I thought that was called "Animal Crossing: City Folk".

some nice features

[juenger1701]

but all the good things in the update could have been added to the blade system or at least leave the blade system as an option for those of us that prefer it

juenger1701

Install to HDD

[baker_tony]

That's the best feature in my book, only because it makes the XBox 360 a lot quieter!
Might be a bit faster too, didn't really notice.

a new market for xbox live

[Earthpaladin]

You know too bad microsoft couldn't allow ps3 users to use xbox live. It would be interesting playing with people who had a ps3.

Where is my Internet browsing?

[Anonymous Coward]

When will XBOX catch up to Wii? Can't they just make a WebKit-based browser?

Re:Where is my Internet browsing?

[Anonymous Coward]

When will wii have HD?

I love it but feel relaxed for doing so

[Ostracus]

"I love the streaming videos more than I probably should. In fact, I'm going to say I love it for the exact reasons I play games on the console rather than the PC in the first place: I don't like messing around with the PC settings at all when I'm trying to entertain myself. The netflix streaming videos didn't work instantly on my PC and I never bothered with it again, on the console it worked immediately. Call that laziness if you want, I'll just turn around and call you something else."

The word you're looking for is "appliance" as in "My DVD player is an appliance". It's not a bad thing unless you like challenges getting work done. Personally I'm tired of TELNETTing in to use my washing machine.

Can it play more videos?

[pance]

Does anyone know if the NXE fixed the bugs in their avi player? I've been using my desktop to watch videos on my tv, but would much rather just run it through the 360 so I can navigate menus with the wireless controller. Sometimes when watching some .avi movies (xvid I think) it would play for a few seconds, then give an error along the lines of "Play has stopped because 360 may not be able to play this file".

Re:Can it play more videos?

[DJKaotica]

Sounds like your computer may be having some problems streaming the video to the Xbox. I tried TVersity and had some issues with this.

I ended up installing uShare on my DLink DNS-323, and I haven't had any problems since (if you have one, or are looking at getting one, check out Fonz's fun_plug, and search for the uShare plugin for that). The only issue with it, is that you have to restart uShare to get it to reindex the files....there may be a way to fix / change this, but I haven't found one yet...it was pretty simple to write a restart command though, that I just have to run whenever I add new files.

Also, I'll note that uShare can be a little finicky, and the configuration file actually has a few mis-named settings (they don't load properly, for example the Xbox setting is supposed to be USHARE_XBOX_STREAMING or something like that, instead of XBOX_STREAMING), so it takes a little tweaking. Once you've got it working though, it's a great program!

If you're running linux on your primary box then you should have no problems getting uShare working on that (I've set it up on my linux server as well).

QWERTY???

[altek]

Anyone know if there's a way to change the onscreen keyboard (for typing messages to friends) to QWERTY?

The current layout is absolute shite.

Slow...

[Ash-Fox]

I watched the various videos demoing NXE and I am not impressed. You see stuff loading infront of you instead of it being loaded in the background.

From shirt images to God knows what. Sure, it might take just 2-3 seconds to load, but this should be loaded in the background, before you click 'next' or 'previous'. Personally, I find such things extremely annoying with an interface that has no excuse to do so.

Saving, saving a character created from 400 different customizations leaves you waiting 3-9 seconds, what the hell? How can a hard drive be that slow? How can a website storing data be that slow? Are we seriously moving backwards in technology? It doesn't take me that long to write a large amount of data to my hard drive, it doesn't take that long to store something in a SQL string.

Re:Slow...

[prockcore]

Several million people were creating avatars and messing around with NXE yesterday... and you are wondering why it was slow?

Re:Slow...

[Ash-Fox]

Several million people were creating avatars and messing around with NXE yesterday... and you are wondering why it was slow?

I was talking about the demo videos which were created before NXE was released. Additionally, I still don't see why things like shirt designs can't be preloaded before click next/before buttons.

NXE is a welcome change

[Xoth]

Microsoft is in a strange place with xbox. Making hardware like this? A live service to support? Game development? Considering gaming and consoles they have faired pretty damn well.

Believe me with MS and their history of bloatware I was worried they were going to bloat the hell out of the interface. They resisted the urge and NXE is good step forward to enhancing the interface of their successful game console.

Admittedly I was a little lost at first but thats what happens with something new. Wheres this and what happened to that questions were quickly answered by the guide button. BAM you got everything right there. And in the interface I started noticing the nice little touches like the description of games themselves with full screen slide shows.

Avators are fun and actually made mine look like me which works in a social networking context. Although I would like a choice of boxer shorts and 5 oclock shadow.

Not Really...

[EXTomar]

As the distributor of those movies, Sony has a right to distribute them in the way they see fit. If for some reason they don't think Netflix and Microsoft are treating their content properly then why can't Sony pull the plug on content they are responsible for? As long as Sony isn't forcing Netflix (or Microsoft by extension) with money to not distribute Sony content then that is fine. Illogical but fine. Sony shouldn't get paid for content they didn't deliver from Netflix by way of NXE.

Of course none of that has anything to do with consumers and what they want or desire where this is really a squabble about two mega-corporations who really give only passing thought about what their consumers really would like.

Try Community Games!

[yyr]

For anyone who didn't know, one of the new features is Xbox Live Community Games, a service that allows independent developers to create games and upload them to the service.

So currently there are 32 games up and 8 more should hopefully join them sometime today. There's a lot of variety in there. You probably won't like them all, but you can try them all for free.

Among the games that should hopefully go live today is Snake360, a new 3D version of Snake that I put together myself over 11 months. 200+ levels, 4-player battles, co-op play, Internet Ranking, blah blah blah. =) You can see more at www.snake360.com; the full version costs the equivalent of $5.

I definitely think my game is worth buying but it's most definitely not the only one. Enjoy them!

Re:Try Community Games!

[xenocide2]

I think it's a little ridiculous that they won't let you publish games for free. I understand it's hosted on their dime, so is there some side band of publishing I'm not aware of?

Re:Try Community Games!

[prockcore]

Care to give us some insight into how many people have purchased the full version? And can you tell how many people have done the trial?

I've been messing with XNA myself.. but I haven't ponied up the money to join the creators club yet.

Speaking of performance...

[AdamThor]

Speaking of performance - did anyone notice a difference post update? At a gathering last night I played some Halo 1 in a mixed XB1 / XB360 environment. The 360 has always had a rather odd time keeping up with the initial xbox on xb1 games, but last night the peeps on the 360 complained particularly bitterly of the lag. Perhaps it was because of the terrible drubbing we gave them, or maybe the 360 was less able to play some networked halo1?

I have to change the name of my console...

[avatar139]

...It's now an Xbox Wii60!

P.I.T.A.

[hitman213]

Has anyone else had issues playing games that the did not install? After downloading the update, I was playing Fable 2 and it froze every couple minutes. Some times I'd be able to get back to the dashboard, but other times required full restart. Once the game was installed to the hard drive there were no problems. Does this mean I'll have to install all games to the hard drive. I don't get much time to play, and waiting over 20 minutes for an install cuts into it big time.