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Computer For a Child?
jameswing writes "I am thinking of buying a UMPC, such as an Eee PC or a Wind for my son, and wanted to get input from Slashdot. He is almost 2 and really curious about our computers, and anything electronic. I want to foster this in him, without having him on my desktop or laptop. I also don't really like the idea of getting one of those cheap 'Learning Laptops' that have a tiny screen and are really limited.
Does anybody have one that they use with their children? How sturdy is it? Will it stand up to a 2-year-old? If not, what are good alternatives?
What are your thoughts? Suggestions?"
Your son is not a prodigy. At "nearly 2" he's about ready for playing "What sound does this animal make?" games. With you though, not with some electronic babysitter.
This question is nonsensical. Come back in 3 years, and we can talk.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
You're joking, right? It sounds like this is more for you than for your son. Look, we all want our children to be interested in what we're interested in, but don't you think that this is a little overkill and a little pushy? All children are interested by lights and sounds, etc. but that doesn't mean that he is ready for his own real computer. Buy him one of those toy ones that make sounds and have big flashing lights, he'll like it better and when he breaks it, you'll only be out twenty bucks.
My suggestion is to just let him be a kid for a little while. You really don't want him getting that pasty complexion this early in life...
I gave my 1½ YO daughter an old IBM Thinkpad from the late 90's. It's not useful for any real application, but it does run - and she can do whatever she wants with it, it's hers.
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
I'm a first day Give One Get One (G1G1) buyer of the OLPC, and although it certainly doesn't match the specs or convenience of the newer UMPCs, it is amazingly good at what it is designed for - an easy to use and super durable computer for children. Two is pretty young, they need to know not to smash the screen, but aside from that the OLPC has an excellent interface. There really isnt any competition. They just restarted the OLPC G1G1 on Amazon, but you can probably find one at a decent price on eBay - dont be in a rush and you'll get a good deal. You'll find it fun to play with too!
Why not just spend $300 on an old Thinkpad? They were built pretty tough, and are probably too heavy for a small kid to carry around so he won't be able to drop it.
The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I ordered Elonex ONEt+ http://www.elonexone.co.uk/ for my neice.. She will be 3years old in March.
It is currently available only for pre-booking and will be delivered by Christmas.
Give him one of your old computers, an internet connection, and a Gentoo boot disk. Let him figure it out from there.
Let's get realistic here. The kid doesn't read or even understand what the different keys on the keyboard are at this age. A conventional computer won't teach him that. Maybe you should set the bar within his reach for the next couple years. A toy computer that presents him with challenges that are appropriate for his cognitive level will be far more educational.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
I would not want him staring at a computer screen. Show him printed text and he may read. I was before that age.
Interacting with a laptop is not the basis you want his brain to grow around.
However, there are infant games for computers. I had one for a mac years ago that drew things in red, black and white as small children are most attracted to red.
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Two-year-olds are not old enough to understand how to treat things gently. I don't think it's possible to make a laptop that can stand up to a two-year-old unless you encased the whole thing (including the keyboard) in about a two-inch thick layer of plastic. Two-year-olds throw terrible tantrums. They're known for it. They'll often smash things up when they're angry. When my step daughter was two and upset, she ripped every page out of Blueberries For Sal. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. Whether or not he's curious about computers, age two is too soon. Wait, at least, until he gets to an age where he doesn't throw tantrums (which will probably be a little before age three if you don't make a practice of giving in when he throws tantrums and will probably be about age fifteen otherwise).
At three, he'd at least be less likely to break it quickly. Personally, I'd probably wait until age four or so since he's more likely to have the needed cognitive skills to do things like recognize symbols at that age. But regardless of whether you wait until age three or age four, "almost two" is significantly too early for a computer.
A two year old is going to have a hard time manipulating the keyboard and touch pad of any netbook. Consider one of the Fisher Price things you hook to a regular TV. If you are insisting on a real computer, the XO-1 from OLPC is available on Amazon for $400 ($200 tax break for the G1G1 program). Sugar bothers most adults but my five year old (now six) took to it well, and it has lots of interesting software. For the less adventuresome, the Classmate from Intel (distributed by CTL) is also available on Amazon. It uses a modified Edubuntu build so has a lot of educational applications. Unless your kid is some kind of bio mechanical freak, that can handle mice, keyboards and touch pads at two, I'd suggest buying something designed for that age and holding off on the netbook for a couple of years.
You need to "foster" Computer & Gaming interests in kids? Ever read the news? You need to force them to stop playing video games and DO HOMEWORK or go outside! You don't need to "teach" them to look at shiny blinking lights..... Why does this person as a parent frighten me?
I have a nephew around the same age (slightly over two). He loves playing with my Nintendo DS and Mario 64 on the Wii (which, of course, he doesn't quite know how to control yet, but the freedom to just run around is fun even to him).
What would be a good portable I could get him that would be more his age? I don't think he's a prodigy or anything, I just want to get him something fun.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
A box of crayons and a cardboard box big enough to sit in. Turn it on its side for cave-y goodness (2 is a bit too young for spaceship goodness).
--
Lost you job? Keep one eye open on craigslist.com http://www.bigattichouse.com/oneeyeopen.html
meh
My daughter who is almost 3 has been really interested in electronics as well. I picked up an old used laptop (I think it's a Pentium III 800 or something) that someone was giving away. I loaded it up with Debian and installed GCompris. She absolutely loves it - and GCompris is great. Problem is (like most kids her age) she picks it up to move it and drops it, tries to forcefully "integrate" her other toys with it, occasionally spills something on the keyboard... you know - normal 2 year old stuff.
Unless you've got the cash to not care about your kid wrecking and mucking the thing up in 6 months of use - I say load linux on an old used beater. The kid doesn't know the difference.
Just disrupt the deflector shield with a tachyon burst.
I learned to read with that age, which was considered a prodigy in my city (and a freak, BTW, in equal proportions).
I really dug into encyclopedias, and was very interested in science. Until I stole a book from a dad's friend.
It was COBOL. I was 4. Now I'm a sad CS teacher finishing my ph.D. in high-performance computing. And I have 12 euros in my bank account right now.
Let him live. And when time comes, guide him to a law school.
Buy the Magellan laptop (Magalhaes) that is based on the Intel Classmate framework. This computer is being supplied to every child in Portugal from the ages of 6-10. It's a very robust laptop that keeps working after more than 1 meter (3 feet) falls.
However, you should analyze if 2 years-old isn't a bit too soon to have a laptop.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Two is too young for real mouse and keyboard control, although they might be enthralled by pictures on the screen. I'd argue that spending the money on some books and other play equipment (cheap and good: some big plastic "tweezers" and some little plastic objects to pick up - develops the quite specialised muscles and coordination they'll need to hold a pen for writing later on really well) would be a better course of action though.
Buying them their own laptop's a dumb idea if you expect them to take care of it. It'll get pulled off the table or have the lid shut with an object on the keyboard, and it'll die. Also, if you're giving them access to the charger, they might pull the AC cable out and stick it in their mouth, which wouldn't do them any good. Or they might accidentally short the battery and cause a fire. Or tip their juice over it. Or (as just happened to my other half's brand new Palm Centro) decide they like it so much they're going to dip it in the bath to clean it. I could go on. They're just not toddler-proof/friendly/suitable.
I've a two year old and a five year old. I wouldn't buy either a "real" laptop although my five year old likes sitting on my lap and playing simple kids web games sometimes, and can use a mouse and a keyboard. She'd rather draw with a pen, though, and learning to read and write is something best done on paper. My two year old is currently literally jumping up and down with sheer joy at the marble run we've just bought her.
My advice? If you want a netbook for yourself, buy one. If you want a toy for your kids, buy something else.
Having said all this, an iPhone is great for distracting small children by showing them pics of the family!
Then when he gets the hang of that, take off the training wheels and let him use vi.
he says he's going to 'check his email' and sits down at the computer. i dont know where he got that from. not me, cause i never say something like 'ima check my email'
then he proceeds to remove keys from the keyboard. he's gotten quite good at this, even employing other objects as a lever to pop the keys off. i then find them scattered about the house, in his mouth, outside, in the toilet, in the refrigerator...
if you have a child of this age, the only computers that are going to stand up to them are made by fisher price etc.
i don't think it would be worth it until about 5 at the earliest
The best thing to do is read to him every night. By doing so, he will learn that reading is a rewarding activity. When he gets older, reading will not be a struggle, and from there he can do whatever he likes.
And he will want to use Daddy's laptop, even if he has his own.
Give the 2 year old a fish & you have fed him for today.
Teach him how to fish & you have fed him for life.
Why buy him a computer. Take him to Frys or something.
Let him pick out the parts & make his own computer.
Once he is done, point him to one of the Linux sources - he
can build his binaries & install it.
An Asus EeePC or an MSI Wind are not to be considered UMPC. The concepts are different. UMPC are overgrown palm devices (or shrunken tablets, depending how you see it), with a touchscreen, and an emphasis on watching/listening media. Hence the name. They are usually quite expensive, do not have a normal keyboard or lack one completely - you are supposed to use the touchscreen for that, and since you are not expected to type a lot, that should be ok.
The category you are talking about should be called netbooks. They are notebooks which are smaller, cheaper, and slower than a typical notebook. Most of all, they are very portable without the price premium associated with an ultraportable notebook. The points here are price, form-factor, and intended purpose. Your typical netbook has a (smallish) notebook keyboard, perhaps not so much storage, but it will let you do - and expects you to - all the things you do with a normal notebook, providing you can put up with the small screen and keyboard.
, Ok, I will stop being a dick now and answer your question. Since so many people told you not to get any kind of computer, I won't do the same, but... anyways, consider an OLPC machine. It is supposed to be more sturdy, and the Sugar interface is (IMHO) a great way to teach children what computers are all about without being tied to the dominant GUI/OS.
That said, no matter how gifted your child is, he is still a 2 year old and so he is bound to shred the computer to little pieces. And eat them. So either get the cheapest one, or get a very sturdy one.
Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
2 year old child? Computer? What?
...
Furthering your kids natural curiousity should start with the regular things like nature and people. Why don't you find some friends for him to play with or have him memorize each species of every zoo in your range of travel? Seriously, there are TONS of other things you should get your kid involved in before plugging him into the naval cord of all evil in the world, what we like to call the internet. You know what it's for
If you really have to go through all that just to say "look he's 2 1/2 and compiles his own kernel" buy an old ruggedized laptop. They'll be affordable, powerful enough for the needs of every gaming enthusiast 2 year old. And they're less likely to end in a tragedy when you son decides he wants to show his good friend "sippy cup" what awesome gibberish he just posted on his myspace page. Jeez.
Talk a lot, play and bond, and let it learn directly from you. Computer is not a substitute for parenting.
That said, once your child is ready and interested get HP 50G programmable graphing calculator and let it master it! (RPN and simple but powerful programming constructs are available).
The device is still small and capable, but there is nothing like the satisfaction of knowing how it truly works.
Computers of today are too abstract and too separated from the metal, and you can't really feel you intimately know it any more (you know that feeling we had back in our childhood when we knew our Commodore 64's ROM addresses and functions they do. You don't get that any more).
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
Have you got him his slashdot account yet? Since the UIDs are already in the millions, by the time he's in his teens and ready to really start using slashdot, OK- ten, that number might be as high as 2 to 2.5 to maybe even 3 million. So save that "low" single million UID now so he'll have built in cred in a few years.
Just imagine that proud moment in only a few years when he's asking you about Natalie Portman and hot grits! Or when he wake's you in the middle of the night because he clicked on something expecting to see a goat. Good times! And why wait when you can get him started now?
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
give him a break... for a couple more years...
and btw. he will always end up on your laptop (even if you give him 10 alternative computers to play with) since forbidden fruit is always the sweetest...
Your child is interested in you, what your interests are. If you give him something that you don't use, he will lose interest fast. You are a father and, presumably, a husband... NOTHING IS YOURS ANYMORE. Get over your materialism, and let him play on your computer.
The Admin and the Engineer
I purchased an older laptop on Craigslist, installed a self customized live CD with childrens games, drawing, noise makers etc... Buy a $5 mouse and $10 or less keyboard. Next, open the machine flat and place it at a small kids table with only the monitor sticking up into view. This works great to keep the machine safe and monitor at the back of the table almost out of reach. Next, zip tie the cords for the mouse and keyboard to the leg of the table so when they send it flying it does not damage the connector on the laptop. One more thing, break off a toothpick under the right mouse button. If you skip the toothpick it will take a long time before they figure out that only one of the mouse buttons actually works. Laptop travel mice come in smaller formats and fit great in a childs small hand. For a while, my daughter who is now 3, went through a phase where she liked to pull the keys out of the keyboard. This was great, she is learning how things go together and come apart. She had long quit putting things in her mouth before she was strong enough to do this. Now she likes to sit and paint on a Reader Rabbit game for about 10min a day. Really, to her it is just another toy. The nice thing is, it is a toy she understands. She also has a basic understanding of the relationship of mouse and screen as well as icons and activities. My son went through this same phase but never pulled the keys out. Both of my kids are very active. They prefer to ride bikes in the yard, build forts from the couch, color with crayons, throw paper airplanes from upstairs to downstairs and watch their favorite programs on TV when allowed. My nephew, who is about 8 months younger than my son is never allowed to touch a computer. At family gatherings, he will stand and stare at a computer for hours while the other kids run around, play with tracks, hot wheels, dolls and toy kitchens. I don't think it is solely the lack of computer exposure, but I do think if he had exposure it would help get him away from it when there are other fun activities. I think computers for this generation are as basic a household item as a TV was for us. Helping them understand it early will give an advantage of understanding in the future. It will also make it less magical to them. If there are other kids around, my kids still prefer to run and play. So my point is that you need to limit and be in control of your childs computer time, right from the beginning. I do not believe this is going to ruin a child any more or less than a TV set. Just do not forget that you are the parent and you know what is best. Here is a live CD I made that opens Firefox to the Disney games page on the web with no address bar and no exit other than powering down. Basically it becomes an unofficial Disney Kiosk. It is the last item on the list of files. http://www.homesopen.com/slax581/other/ Keep in mind that everyone will be quick to give you advise about how to raise your kids. You know best what your kids are capable of and what you want to do for them. Just don't forget that you are the parent. Always be in control of your child, not the other way around and you will be OK. - Parent of two happy healthy kids.
Because a computer is pretty limited for them until s/he is able to read. Reading to your child from a book is a great way to not only socialize and bond with them, as well as getting their imagination active.
He might still want on your computer, which is fine, but find something simple for him to do (you might consider having a look at http://virtualapple.org/ for some old, but good games.) and put him in your lap while he does it so you can help guide him, and keep your equipment from getting destroyed. No 2 year old should be on a computer alone.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Come on folks! Less than two is a preschooler and a very young one at that. The preschool years are VERY important. They should be learning about social interaction not computer interaction. They should be learning their FIRST language not a computer language. They should be learning how to get along with others not get along with a computer. A young child has a lot of important learning to do and a computer is not one of them. There is a whole lot of time later on to learn about computers. This is not one of them.
We've got one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Vtech-Tote-Go-Laptop-Plus/dp/B000E1PY6U
And it serves it's purpose just fine. Our 2 1/2 year old can recognize most of the letters already. She's obviously not using all the games (some are a little beyond her, frankly), but it's nigh-indestructable, and $20 if they happen to destroy it.
We don't really encourage its use, but she picks it up from time to time anyway. I still have more fun with the blocks, personally.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
A C64 takes WAY more knowledge to get started with than Linux or Windows. I gave my son his first computer soon after he turned 1, and he ran Ubuntu just fine. It took less than 10 minutes of instruction and a day of him fiddling for him to get comfortable with it. Install gCompris, which starts out with 'move the mouse over squares to display the picture' activities, and you are ready to go. My kid didn't get into C64s until he was late 3. Even now at 4 he is not ready to start programming, which is where the Apples and C64s will shine. If you go with Windows, I would also recommend GameTap. They have more than 75 educational titles in their catalog, and many of the purely entertainment titles are simple enough for a two year old. Things like Pac-man and Burger Time. After all, sometimes kids just need to play.
Set up an old desktop (not too old) in the corner. Install Ubuntu and gCompris, and let her go at it. Desktops are metal boxes, so she isn't likely to break that. Use a CRT monitor so that touching the screen isn't a problem. Set it up on an end table so that it is all at her height. The only items that you need to worry about breaking are the mouse and keyboard since other than the power button, those are the only items she will use heavily. Keyboards and mice are cheap, so if they break, it isn't the end of the world. They are also really durable. Finally, when you get a mouse, 1) make sure it really works. I have seen parents give kids their old mice that stick. If a broken mouse is a source of frustration for you, it will likely be one for your child, and 2) Go get one of those small 'laptop' mice. They will fit your daughters hand WAY better than an adult sized mouse. I got my son one of those at 1, and it is still running fine at 4. I recently asked him if he wanted a full size mouse, and he was adamant that the smaller one was more comfortable than my large mouse.
HE IS 2 YEARS OLD FOR F*CK SAKES, THIS I WHAT'S WRONG WITH PARENTING TODAY...TV AND MACHINES DO NOT SUBSTITUTE PROPER CARE, NOR XBOX, NOR PS3.
He is 2 , he needs to learn to walk, even read if you can get him to understand letters.
I had taught my niece to count and do the alphabet phonetically by the age of 2. She may not
have known what it is, but by 3...letter association went very quickly, and by 3...could actually know what letters were which if you held out the letter, no matter which letter it was...by 4..she was
already writing her name, and understanding that letters make up whole words. In kindergarden, she was the first to read and write...I am sure it was not because we plunked down in front of a screen.
Sure, a kid can pop in a cd or dvd and watch his movie, or play his game at age of 3...but
the advantage comes at too great a loss, how many kids can't write or read properly for that matter.
Signatures are handwritten , yet I see so many people just use block letters to sign for something thinking that this is a signature, there is no association to writing skills any longer.
As well, how much vocabulary is being lost because kids of today, are strikingly going towards less is more, where abbreviations for everything seem to exist....lol,rofl,gtg,brb,owm, etc.. etc.
I am sorry for being too blunt about it, but kids should be outside playing being active, not becoming obese, in front of the screen learning to hack their parents credit cards, etc.
wake up and realize that children as young as 2 need to develop various skills:physical, social, metacognition. a computer can capture their attention, and the ability to focus on something is an important step in metacognitive skills, but you're gonna turn your kid into an idiot if his early childhood development is poorly balanced with a computer at it's center...
buy your child toys that require him to exercise his brain and hands, like duplo/lego blocks, wooden stacking blocks, a trainset, or for that matter any early learning toy (there's alot of great early learning toys from germany, why don't you use the intertubes to look them up).
instead of buying him his own computer, let him use your computer TOGETHER WITH YOU, for carefully measured durations of time. in the mean time YOU need to LEARN how to interact with your child in meatspace, man. talk and sing and teach, build legos, take walks, fly a kite, be physically INTERACTIVE, not VIRTUAL.
deeper computer learning, and maybe his own computer might be more appropriate at age 5-7, not 2.
figure it out.
three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
The sort of response you are chastising is very typical of ask slashdot responses. And there is nothing wrong with using the computer (or the TV) as a babysitter now and then for a short time, in the same way that you give a child a toy to play with by themselves.
If you spent every waking moment with your child you would both go insane, and you'd never get anything else done - meals still have to be cooked, dishes have to be cleaned, clothes have to be washed, etc, and everyone needs a few minutes to chill out and relax for a few minutes.
Obviously if you expect your child to spend every waking minute in front of a TV or on a computer then something is wrong, but the OP never said that, and never even implied that.