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Brand Names Take On Generics In PSU Showdown
The Raindog writes "The power supply is perhaps the most overlooked element of a modern PC, and yet it's the one component that can irreparably damage the rest of a system. The market is littered with generic PSUs that are often much cheaper than name-brand alternatives, but can you trust them? The Tech Report aims to find out in its latest power supply round-up, which compares the performance, efficiency, and noise levels of a collection of reputable PSUs with some budget, no-name competition. As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run."
And before you think that all your PSUs are failing because you bought them on the cheap, you should also check your UPS. I had 13 PSUs die at Suso and thought it was just horrible luck with power supplies, until I realized that the 5 year old UPS that those servers were on was having issues. Since I replaced it, haven't had any problems since. *knock* *knock*
That's about it. Buy Seasonic.
Buying cheap crap that's pumping out power to sensitive electronics can damage the things it's connected to can make things go horribly wrong!
In other news, your computer is not a good thing to use as a coffee table, puppies should not be left unsupervised near cabling, and you should not leave your cell phone in your pocket while washing your clothing.
Is this surprising anyone?
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
I have owned several HP/Compaq machines and NEVER have lost a PSU. And all of the ones I have built myself with parts (Antec) have had a PSU fail multiple times...
Generic power supplies are an awful plague upon our fair world. Why, just last week I was using my homebrew PSU rack to power my uncle's hospice life support system. Now I'm going to his funeral this weekend. Tragic, just tragic...
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Is there any hope that we will get a non-schizoid titling scheme? This one seems more worthy of a Seventeen or a Teen People than of a Slashdot.
Ninjas and pirates. How piquant.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run..."
To such statements, I say "Ohh puhleeze!" I use generic power supplies for all my PCs, which I never switch off by the way. Apart from increased noise after about 3 years of constant humming, I have no complaints for a product that costs me about 18 dollars.
I heard Google uses the same stuff too.
There aren't very many factories that actually make PSUs. You'll find that a great many PSUs share designs. So you can have cheapies that look like brand name PSUs. Ok so what's the money difference? Parts quality. The company making generics says "Ya give me the cheapest caps, fan controls, etc. I need lowest cost no matter what." The good brands say "Give us higher temperature parts, better quality, etc." Just because they look the same, doesn't mean they are built ot the same standard.
The difference between good and crap in electronics can often be as simple as the parts used. However, good parts cost more money so you are going to pay more for the finished product.
Personally, I'm a Corsair fanboy. They seem to spec really high grade electronics in to their powersupplies and those things do a great job.
They should have checked each power supply for a UL marking, and an entry in the UL Certification Database. Things seem to be getting better, though; the power supplies tested did not blow up or catch fire at full load. That's a big improvement from a few years ago.
The basic UL requirements are 1) no overload problems at full load, 2) no explosion or fire under output overload/short conditions, and 3) no single component failure can cause a fire (i.e. there should be a fuse of some kind in there.) It's permitted for an overloaded unit to fail and never work again; that's not a safety issue. Some no-name power supplies had real problems meeting those basic conditions.
This site has some really detailed stuff: http://jonnyguru.com
haveing a good UPS... or two. one set on low sense, and the 2nd set on high sense... keeps my machines running. :-) but i also live in a 1950's neighborhood where i can tell when my neighbor's dryer turns on.
bored? try this http://jadmadi.net/blog/2005/01/27/linux-wine-how-to-running-windows-viruses-with-wine/
Why does every article on power supplies feel the need to remind us that power supplies are probably the most overlooked component? Judging by the number of online reviews and by the 560 (!) power supplies available at Newegg, I think it's safe to finally retire the "overlooked" cliche.
You can get the best brands for the least amounts of money. Seriously, the prices for PSUs and other computer components have dropped drastically, as long as you are smart enough to stay away from dying retail stores with their aged inventory at horrible pre-Recession prices, and do your due diligence on online price engines you can score some insane bargains. Newegg and a bunch of other onliners kick Frys and Best Buys ass every time.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
I've noticed a few computers that had a Bestec PSU fry their motherboard. I'm not sure if they're sold stand-alone, but they used to be found in HP and eMachines.
Granted, they might have been vastly underrated for upgrades, but still, two machines! That has to be, like, common?
*shrug* It's soured me on the brand, and pre-built computers, at least.
This techreport.com round-up is a joke. If you really want to read a detailed review check out Stephane Charpentier's review of 105 PSUs. Each of his reviews includes everything you'd expect plus a complete assessment of the electronics used in the PSU with very detailed explanations.
Is better capacitors. Good PSUs use higher quality ones, and often ones with a higher thermal rating. This is important since electrolytic capacitors degrade over time. If you have crappy ones, they can degrade faster. At some point, their performance drops to the point where the PSU doesn't work right or at all. Good caps are well worthwhile in a power system.
my generic cheap PSU I bought 5 or 6 years ago (rated 300W) still works fine. It sometimes gets noisy for a 10-15 seconds but then goes back to 'normal'. It powered my Duron 650, then XP 2000+ / 2600+ and now X2 4400+. I must be very lucky.
Taking an old 300 watt atx power supply apart to make a variable 0-5v and 0-12v bench power supply for electronics projects will teach you what you will need to know about quality of components if you have a decent DMM, or better a USB scope to see the difference when you switch out caps and other components. An often overlooked problem with cheap power supplies is that bad soldering and cheap PCBs cause the capacitors to work harder to move the same amount of charge. This effects voltage as it relates to capacitance's formula C = Q/V and its integral (dammit give me MathML) sigh read Wikipedia's definition. Doesn't matter how good your caps are if the circuit was soldered by someone being paid slave wages working 14 hour shifts. The real cost of the plenitude of cheap electronics is going to be an interesting story. Besides the obvious horrors of the places of manufacture in Asia and the dumping grounds in Africa where similar autoimmune disorders, cancers and genetic abnormalities are rampant is the story of what happens between those two places. It is not just the disposable aspect that technology plays in our culture that fascinates me but how little knowledge of the design and manufacture of technology is present in the people that purchase it, sell it or even repair it. PC techs without any electronics understanding are the worse, "Who needs an anti-static work area when I can use any flat surface including a pizza box?" and than wonder why they have half a dozen motherboards laying around the house that won't work. /rant
If I have the time before Xmas I will post my pics and schematics on my blog. Did it for an EE project. Working on LCDs and circuitry to display voltage and amperage (currently have 4 lobotomized dmm pcb w/ attached backlit lcd doing a reading each.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Nobody panic, it's just a pumpkin this time.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
buy a generic for $15 that might fail...
Or
buy an expensive one for $60+ that might fail...
So far i've had better luck with the total generic ones that come with cheap cases. Most of them are still around and still working too. All the way back to the original xt supplies i can't seem to throw away.
Yet the few times i've actually bought "good" expensive well known brands.. FAIL. And no. i don't count just the fan dying as a failure. It's always something major.
Name brand is for suckers in this case. The price diffrence isn't worth it at all.
Maybe it's that all my computers run 24-7. Or i've been damm lucky. But i've never had a plain ol generic supply fail.
I think most problems would be with older equipment made in the days when both the US and the EU countries were trying to make inroads in the Chinese suppliers. For a time the certification bodies seemed to go a little crazy and let the Chinese get away with murder because they all wanted to be the primary Chinese certification body. One of the best incidents I remember was an auditor going around a Chinese plant with ISO 9002 certification. All the documentation was there, all the procedures written up. In English. And no-one in the entire factory spoke English. I doubt this is the case with electricals any more.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
"You can hide a multitude of sins behind one of those "Warranty void if broken" paper seals. ;)"
Slashdot has one of those.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
If you look, that supply is only "UR" component recognition, i.e. it is not UL approved as a standalone item. UR just means that, if a UL tester finds it inside a computer being tested as a whole, he does not test the PSU individually but treats it as a single component. Replying to my own post, below, I should clarify that this seems to be a loophole that I have encountered before. Nobody should sell a UR assembly to an end user, it should only be sold to an OEM to replace an identical item in a UL piece of equipment. I hope this clarifies things.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
"We've narrowed our focus on PSUs in the 350-500W range, which should be enough power for most budget and mid-range systems."
This isn't quite true. The more important question is the amps on the +12V Rails? Even better if yours has a monorail design were all the power-hungry parts can get what they need. Also sustained rating is important. Not peak. And last even the better brands can be/go bad. My PC Power & Cooling 750 silencer was recieved DOA. It happens even to the best...much like hard drives.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
I need a new PSU for an old P2-450 SCSI server, could anyone recommend me a not-so-expensive one?
The current one still works, but the fan makes some annoying loud clicking noise for the first 5-10 minutes it's turned on, which is why the server is down at the moment, it doesn't sound trustworthy.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the conclusions of this report, but I feel compelled to point out that The Tech Report probably doesn't get a whole lot of advertising revenue from the makers of generic power supplies. If their tests found that some generic no-name unit performed just as well as the more expensive name brands, would they necessarily report it?
I just checked and my box (2.4Ghz Athlon 64, 1GB 533Mhz ram, one pata hard drive, nvidia 7300gt video card) uses a 400W Duro supply. I've had this thing for about 5 years or so with no problems. It looks more like the $20 models than the expensive ones.
So, uh, go Duro...
I definitely agree with the last part
"As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run."
On my last creation I had to change PSU three times because the cheap one failed, the store wasn't too happy when I got in for the third time and asked for a refund. I ended up with a Corsair PSU. It was much quieter and I havent had any PSU related problems ever since.
Well, I mean really, there is no other component in your PC that touches everything as much as your PSU does and there is hardly a component that gets less attention (for many the case gets less but that is OK). As such there is a market for cheap PSU's. A bad PSU can ruin *any* component in your PC (including itself), not even your motherboard can boast that.
We know that there can be HUGE differences between top and bottom end if for nothing more than quality of soldering. Next we know that that both skill and time are needed to make high quality joints and skill and time are not cheap. We also know margins have to be kept such that the company turns a profit. Therefore we can pretty much assume that high end PSU's will be expensive and low end ones cheap (though, of course, expensive doesn't necessarily mean high end), especially given that there are places where the high end are are a *requirement* and thus people will spend whatever is needed, that is where margins are made so that the low end stuff can still be sold and mostly work.
*shrug* having been bit once in the past (around 2001 or so) by some cheap PSU's in a small-medium (64 node) computational cluster I know what bad ones can do. We had our server room (halon fire suppression system) call us one day that one of the nodes was smoking and what should they do: "umm that big red button? Push it, then run". It was all nice and melty when I took it apart (halon system didn't deploy thankfully so it was just an amusing story), I used to have a nifty picture of it and the scorch marks but I can't find the picture anymore - however it was obviously it had an actual flame.
Later on when we moved to large clusters then MTB of all the components started to become important. Even then the PSU was one of the higher failure rate parts, I always assumed that this had something to do with the few nodes we had with redundant hardware always had more PSU's than they really should need (other components being just as important yet not having a main and three backups).
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
The review isn't even worth reading because they don't compare a PC Power and Cooling PSU. I don't trust anything else because even the other big name brands use a bunch of gimmicky crap in their PSUs.
Time makes more converts than reason
This PSU could be perfectly safe mounted in the top of a steel PC chassis, but dangerous in a plastic chassis. That's why it should not be sold to end users.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
After several bad experiences, even with UPSs, I have adopted the superstition of avoiding power supplies made by companies with "spark" in their names. Since this decision several years ago, the worst failure I've suffered is a drive that spewed SMART warnings for months -- but kept working -- until I finally RMAd it.
There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
Among other things granted to the Chinese during the Clinton administration was the relaxation of having to meet FCC part 15 subpart B for electronics. Some Chinese power supplies put out tremendous amounts of RF all across the spectrum. Might check that too if you are having problems with radio reception. When I can get them I always buy Taiwan made power supplies because #1 they are better engineered and built, and #2 they do not radiate RF. They have to meet the RF emissions requirements. So far I've had a large failure rate of Chinese power supplies because of being under engineered and the poorly made components. Electronics are like everything else being made in China today. They cut corners and mismanage and put out crap clothes, electronics, baby food, pet food, toys, medicines, and every body just keeps letting them get by with it. Most of my Chinese made shirts don't come with pockets anymore, the thread count of the cloth is lower, the sewing thread is smaller diameter and of poorer quality. The seams are sewn right up against the edges so they rip out in the washing machine and buttons disappear after a few washings too. And if you take medicines ask your pharmacist what the country of origin is. It might surprise the hell out of you. Almost everything I take now (blood pressure and kidney meds) are made in India. That scares the bejesus out of me too but not nearly as much as Chinese made meds.
Too lazy to create a sig...
I would like to recommend these brands:
Enermax (http://www.enermax.com)
Hec (http://www.hec-group.com.tw)
Acbel (http://www.acbel.com)
Our HP servers uses Acbel.
Indian pharmaceuticals are up to 1st world standards. The major manufacturer recruited a British CEO years ago to make sure of it. India has a long tradition of civil law and administration (in fact the legal system was overhauled by Lord Macaulay, of all people, at the start of the 19th century.) China (excluding Taiwan and Hong Kong) is only just starting to develop a civil law system. That's the key difference. The Bhopal scandal is not about a failure of Indian civil law, it's about the (disgraceful?) failure of the US government to return Union Carbide execs to India for trial. The Chinese product safety scandals have been about Chinese business as usual. Let's just hope the economic downturn does not slow the rate of improvement in China.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I bought a REAL PSU, one with no fan at all inside.
It has cooling ribons and doesnt make any sound.
okay it had cost me some bucks.. but in return i got a lot more silent PC
Its from silverstone, it even has logic inside to protect angainst short circuits.
And that actualy helped a few times.
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run.
The money I saved buying a generic PSU, I spent buying a midrange UPS. Come on, any benefit that expensive PSU is supposed to bring you will likely be negated by bad power from the wall. Think of the PSU as a bullet-proof vest, and the UPS as an armored car. I would feel more secure inside an armored car without a bullet-proof vest, than wearing a bullet-proof vest outside an armored car.
Heres a good contrast between a high quality build and results you get from such, and a VERY poor quality build:
The Good
vs
The Very Bad
My personal favorite is when they compare one to the "showgirl" that everyone knows... lol
After ~20 years in the industry, through thousands (probably tens of thousands) of PCs - everything from no-name dsektops to high-end IBM blade servers, I think I've witnessed (or received direct reports of) 3 or 4 PSU failures ever.
Heck, if someone asked me to rank the components most likely to fail in a computer, the PSU would probably be sitting just above screw holes and mounting posts.
WTF are you people doing to your computers ? Is the power supply in Australia really that much better than the rest of the world ?
I've always used Nexus power supplies mainly for their silence, but they look to be decent quality as well.
Self awareness - try it!
Yes, I agree that jonnyguru.com is the best review source for PSU stability (noise and transients are measured with oscilloscope and compared with ATX specs) and build quality (inside pics and commentary on components used). If you additionally care about the noise your PSU is making at various loads, silentpcreview.com has those measurements. I bought a couple of power supplies based on the review on to those two sites, and never had issues stability or noise wise.
I need my coffee. Shaxwell House brand coffee.
I had a (350W?) PSU that came with the Sonata case (1st version), which made an annoying high-pitched noise with Radeon 9800 from the get go. It eventually started to exhibit instability after three years or so, and then would not even power off properly.
I also have a 430W Antec that comes with NSK 6500. This one is a Seasonic OEM (hat tip silentpcreview.com). No issues with this one in a couple of years of service.
So, like with other rebranded OEM products, it depends who built the PSU for Antec.
in this brand vs generic PSU showndown the generic PSUs fail horribly.
over the last 10 years, I've killed 4 different PSU. One system with a dual CPU alone caused 3 PSU's to fail. I attribute it heat, but that's just my guess. The other was due to the fan dying twice. The first time the PSU fan died, I replaced the fan. The second time I didn't bother and got a new one. I've bought cheap PSU and expensive units. could be I just had bad luck.
I've also been working on computers for about 20 years, and I agree with you. For PCs, I've only ever seen one or two PSU failures, and in the enterprise world, I had 3 of 12 PSUs fail in a big Sun rack. None of my personal machines have ever had a PSU failure.
Is there a recommended brand/model of PSU that emits no/little/minimal RF interference for clean audio? I'd love a power supply I can't hear(fan), but also can't hear in my system's audio output or recording. Surely there's some better PSU that has the modular power cables(oh that is nice).
I've had 2 SilentPSU's from Yesico before, they were "ok" but not perfect at all.
Be aware, your silentpsu might still do the same while thinking different ...
Over the 10 years we've had to replace EVERY case PSU we've bought and we've had many cases in stock ;) and we've had to replace only a few of the higher price range.
Maybe it's superstition although I've had best result with the high range series of Chieftec; they even got a supersilent PSU with large fan which is as good as the SilentPSU for me. .. bliss compared to these vacuum cleaners nowadays!
I'm only hearing my pump of my watercooled system and that's about it
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Let's say your typical uses are web forms, reading/composing emails or documents, and not turning the computer off until the end of the day. You want a PSU that is effient when idle. You may even want the one TFA says is too expensive because that one has the best efficiency at low power draw. On the other hand, the PSUs which are efficient during load are great if you tax the computer for some significant part of the uptime. The PSU review is great but I don't know why the conclusion didn't include a blurb like this.
kudos to the site for actually going to the trouble of building a test rig that can actaully load down PSUs in controlled increments.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
The pizza box works sometimes. I've got a dump here of mainboards, graphics cards and other stuff; they didn't die on the pizzabox but before.
My three holy rules:
Had a few times a bad PG every 4-5 restarts of a PSU which drove me crazy until I've used a tester .. You will have to pry it from my dead cold hands !
Look at the prices like everything dropped ; budget cases won't have high-quality PSU's. .. it just doesn't look good all that green&blue with red sause! ;)
Over the last 10 years it was needed to replace every PSU in every case to a higher grade PSU in our cybercafe and office.
Most problems started at the PSU, of some which even made a professional Martin smoke-fog-machine jealous!
Some were even that witty to kill a videocard together with a few other components...
Of all of these PSU's the soldering is awfully done; some PSU's even died just because of bad soldering connections!
Best is to not mix pizza with electronics
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Did anyone else notice the Enermax PSU they chose? They could easily have had about a dozen ones that would be better made by the exact same company for the same amount or less money. They intentionally went out of their way to make Enermax look bad. (I do not work for them, I'm just a happy longterm customer)
Is anyone else annoyed that every power supply review written in the last ~5 years has started with some variation on "The power supply is perhaps the most overlooked element of a modern PC, and yet it's the one component that can irreparably damage the rest of a system"?
Enough! I get it!
Good article. They covered actual vs advertised power, efficiency, noise, ripple etc. But they only tested the performance of the units for a short time.
They did not test MTBF or useful life.
Yes, I know that most MTBF ratings are actually calculations and estimates, but they still have value.
My concern with cheepo power supplies is component quality.
Electrolytic capacitors can be very troublesome. Even the good ones are nowhere near as reliable as semiconductors, and the bad ones are truly awful.
Fans are another problem. Semiconductors tend to follow a decaying exponential reliability curve. After the initial "infant mortality" period, the longer they run, the less their chance of failure. But mechanical devices wear out. And cheepo fans were out quickly
It probably depends on the quality of your powergrid, too.
I've heard the american grid, on average, delivers much more fragile and "dirty" electrons than, for example, the european grid.
I guess it makes a difference whether your PSU has to deal with spikes and brownouts on a daily/weekly basis or whether it's just humming along on nominal line voltage.
Wow. I think I could do a better solder job with a torch and 1/4" plumbers solder.
The image on that site isn't good enough to allow reading the certification number below the UR symbol. After some enhancement in Photoshop, it looks something like "E??430?", but I can't be sure.
Product reviewers: please provide a clear photo of the nameplate on anything you review.
The UL database does have an entry for this item.
1ST FL
18 WU CHUN 7 RD, WU GU INDUSTRY AREA
WU GU SHIANG, TAIPEI TAIWAN
The UL certification database has UL's test numbers, and they're above the ones from "jonnyGURU.com". But the UL database lists this as a supply intended for 230V power only. They list all the other Allied power supplies as "115/230VAC", but not this one. JonnyGuru reported that the primary side blew out, not the secondary side. Running on 115V, the primary side has to draw twice the current required at 230V. (Yes, that's how switching power supplies work.)
So this thing is mislabeled, or was submitted for testing with a different label. It went through UL testing as 230V only, and won't work on 115V.
If a UL-rated power supply blows up on you, UL wants to know. There's a form for reports. They accept pictures (.JPG or .GIF). If you're willing to ship the failed product to UL, they'll send you mailing instructions.
They mention in the article that PC Power & Cooling was bought by one of the companies whose product they DID test. I don't recall which brand it was. You'll have to actually RTFA to find out. (I know, I know -- how embarrassing! :)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
My experience here in America is exactly the reverse -- in OEM systems, the single most failure-prone component is the PSU (followed by the mobo, I think partly due to stress from the OEM's very crappy PSUs).
OTOH, in *clone* systems, failed PSUs are pretty rare. Not coincidentally -- so are failed mobos.
Dunno about how dirty our grid is, but I make my clients invest in a UPS or at least a good surge protector, and funny thing, none has ever suffered a major component failure. :)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
That's a good analogy...until your bulletproof vest explodes while you're wearing it inside the armored car.
No-name PSUs are built cheap-- lowest-bidder capacitors, heatsinks, fans, and circuitry. Even getting 100% solid voltage from a UPS, they have trouble staying within spec'd voltage ranges, especially under sudden loads.
Under any real loads, budget PSUs will fail out with a good chance of killing your system, it's only a matter of time. Even before they go up in smoke you're, likely to face a nightmare of unexplainable system freezes and data corruption.
Compare that with a high-quality PSU guaranteed to run off of AC input 100V-240V while supporting full rated load. Active power-factor correction implemented properly brings everything you get from a UPS except the battery. Mine runs happily through minor voltage problems-- lights dim for a second, my computer continues to run, roommates with weaker PSUs and an old half-dead UPS go down.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
You seriously think you are going to fry your motherboard if you pay less for a standard designed product that may possibly have a slightly shortly life due to lower grade components ?
Yes. Buy a cheap generic PSU, and you don't know what you'll end up with. It may work. It may not. It may be so deficient that catastrophic failure fries components downstream. "Lower quality" works against you in two ways-- lower rated performance specifications for the components, and greater allowable variance within the components supplied. The problem is that you have no information about what you are actually getting.
Your system is spinning up a HDD and suddenly wants 20 amps of current for a short time. Your cheap PSU is rated to handle 16A on that rail, but a temporary spike just stresses it a bit and heats things up. Normally it would survive, but one of the capacitors running that rail is on the lower end of the reliability curve and shorts. *POP*, acrid smoke, a series of short circuits, and depending on the layout and where in the AC input cycle that happened, you have either a dead PSU or a dead PSU that sent out a voltage spike and took something else with it.
Sure, that's a worst-case scenario, and it's remarkably bad enough that our minds are wired to see that as a much lower-probability event than it actually is. So, I'll say that it doesn't take catastrophic failure to dissuade me from purchasing a cheap power supply.
All it takes is the knowledge that even minor variations in output voltage are like little gremlins in your computer. Transient under-voltage to your RAM? Oops, some of the bits may have flipped! Hopefully that wasn't anything important, like a HDD write queue order or the handle for core operating system components.
Slightly wonky power supplies are the #1 cause of untraceable system instability. You get what you pay for, and spending $30 more on a name-brand PSU with quality components and active power-factor correction instead of putting that money toward another 5% CPU speed jump just makes sense.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
THat's what I look for in my PS, anmd so I tend to use Seasonic (Made in Taiwan? I think)
Very power efficient,
Very quiet.
The current one I've been using, has been on for about 5 years now.
Add to this the practice of recycling metal which should be classified as low level radioactive waste. I have heard that some metal products are slightly radioactive. Not highly radioactive but enough to set off a radiation meter.
Depends on how you measure reliable. I probably have 3 power outages a year due to storms. I have probably 5 days a year with brownouts significant enough to cause my UPS to kick on one or more times that day (sometimes it jackhammers on and off).
I've had one UPS fail on me causing no further damage, and one UPS not provide power due to an old battery. So far in 8 years I have never had a UPS cause damage to equipment.
I've replaced a lot of PSUs in my day, mostly since I can buy a lot of $20 PSUs that each last me a year for what someone else would spend on a "nice" PSU.
Oh, and I've never had a failing PSU damage anything else. Replace the PSU, and on I go.
Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
Except it's not $30 more, it's $130 more. Because I only paid $90 for the motherboard, the $20 PSU I bought could completely take it out and I would STILL be saving money over the name-brand PSU.
Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
The problem is that you have no information about what you are actually getting.
Yes, I see... would you like to buy this reputable brand PSU from me ? its only got a markup of 200% and you can finally sleep at night.
Actually, we have another model here that is encased with rubber - latest secure fashion, only costs another $50
Sarcasm aside, the designs are the same, all PSUs I have used work until they fail. Your paranoia is not held up by stats, you are also attributing untraceable hardware issues to fluctuations in the PSU, which is akin to writing books on string theory.
Even if it were true that standard PSU current fluctuations affect that accuracy of RAM, you would still have no idea when you buy a black box, what you are actually getting. Did you get 1 of the lucky 2-5% that fail too soon, or maybe you got the moron built one.
I don't think paying more money will protect you from such unknowables that afflict all PSU manufacturers.
This is my next purchase:
http://www.corsair.com/products/hx1000/default.aspx
These are solid for less demanding systems:
http://www.corsair.com/products/vx/default.aspx
Solid all around:
http://www.corsair.com/products/tx/default.aspx
For me it's always been the other way around. First, let's examine the irreparably damage the rest of a system: I've never had a system failure before I had to pull the system before it was too ancient to work well for us. So in our case the PSUs aren't causing catastrophic failure.
In fact our oldest running systemn, which we keep running (but not on the 'net) because it runs the version of PageMaker we still use for print and pdf materials, is about eight years old. While I no longer have receipts, the case and power supply together cost us under $40 then.
Now lets' move on to the power supplies themselves:
For many years we bought the cheapest PSUs we could find, until about two years ago. They all ran as long as did the computer in which they were installed.
Then about four years ago we started buying cheap private-label systems from Frys for our staff. We still do. The entire system generally costs us about us$200, less than some good power supplies. They're all still running. Including two I gave new to family as gifts. I just checked with them, and neither are connected to UPS systems at all; both to really cheap (circa us$20) 'surge protectors' (I put that in quotes because I understand they're really not effective at surge protection at that price point)
For myself I build state of the art systems. My last one was built about three years ago; a state of the art (when built) system can easily last that long. It's gone through two PSUs, and is now on it's third. The first one came with the (circa us$60) case. The second, installed about a year ago, not because there was anything wrong with the first but because I wanted something quieter; I paid also circa us$60, and got one with an adjustable speed 120mm fan positioned right over the processor. It lasted, with the fan running at full speed (still vey quiet) until a few weeks ago.
Then after the system shut down twice becaue of heat problems within two weeks (almost a month ago), I took a look at it and discovered the fan was no longer running. Rather than replacing the fan, I replaced the entire power supply, with a cheap one from a friend's stack of extras. Let's see how that one lasts.
Now I'm building my system for the next three years and I've bought for that one an Antec Neopower 500. Let's see how long that one lasts.
We run our systems behind APC SmartUPS systems; perhaps they're better at keeping our power clean than cheaper units from other vendors.
While I realize this isn't a scientific review by any means, it might at least be interesting to some slashdotters.
Dust is the big PSU killer (and UPSs too). I know that in the hospitals plaster room the PC's PSU is replaced about every 6 months. And twin PSUs have problems too, the other day one blew and tripped out the UPS. Well at least all I had to do is boot, recover filesystem and then database. This 5 yr old server has had 3 'new' PSUs in the last year! Are there PSUs designed for dusty environments?
Because I only paid $90 for the motherboard, the $20 PSU I bought could completely take it out and I would STILL be saving money over the name-brand PSU.
Right. So you build crap computers out of junk parts. Good for you. But many people have standards and don't want to put up with that shit. Yay, you'll be saving money! But what about the hassle (and potential data loss) of having your system die? It's worth money to avoid such headaches.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Sarcasm aside, the designs are the same,
Except that they aren't. Where did you get this idea from?
all PSUs I have used work until they fail
Well there's an informative comment. All cars go until they stop, so therefore all cars are the same, right?
... and then they built the supercollider.
Sarcasm aside, the designs are the same,
Except that they aren't. Where did you get this idea from?
Oh sorry, I forgot about the all important rubber encased model.
all PSUs I have used work until they fail
Well there's an informative comment. All cars go until they stop, so therefore all cars are the same, right?
Well, some moron had the idea that their PCs RAM reliability was most likely due to the amount of cash forked out for their model PSU, hence running of the engine, so to speak. I quite seriously have had nil issues related to power supplies other than it works or it doesn't.
I strongly believe that a faulty PSU can be found in any batch and most likely fairly quickly. If it works at all once, it has no reason to change other than wear. They all wear. Your experience maybe different, I really doubt it was anything other than luck.
Still, we've probably both being doing this for years, I've been diagnosing faulty SCSI cables, close to dead HD's, loose connections, not once have I seen RAM that could not be fixed by replacing it, nor Have I seen my computer's screen suddenly refresh differently due to some bits flipping out over a varied voltage - if a voltage is going to flip out of range of the system, the system will freeze - never has this happened to me due to a PSU, heat - yes but PSU, if the PSU dies, it dies, get it ?
Wake up and smell that statistics.
If you're not backing up your important data, the quality of your PSU is the least of your worries...
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