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Security Checkpoints Predict What You Will Do

An anonymous reader writes "New security check points in 2020 will look just like something out of the futuristic movie, The Minority Report. The idea of the new checkpoints will allow high traffic to pass through just as you were walking at a normal pace. No more waving a wand to get through checkpoints — the new checkpoint can detect if you have plans to set off a bomb before you even enter the building."

369 comments

  1. And with a 100% conviction rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Trials will be deemed unnecessary in 2025.

    1. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      According to the last group in the White House, trials became unnecessary on Sept 11, 2001.

      --
      I hate printers.
    2. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      ...the last group in the White House...

      Clinton?

    3. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by mrsquid0 · · Score: 1

      Let's hope that Bush's band isn't the "last group in the White House".

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    4. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...the last group in the White House...

      Clinton?

      The last group in the White House was the 1st Term Bush administration. Right now the group is the 2nd Term Bush admin, and in a short while we'll have a new group in there.

      Oh, & it's pretty common political terminology to refer to the current Lame Duck administration to already BE the last administration.

      And before you freak out, I'm not calling Bush a lame duck, From Jan 1st until the swearing-in ceremony any administration is considered to be in a "Lame Duck" status.

      But yes Bush is a lame duck, and worse, and if you think it's gonna take until 2020 to get this type of half-assed Big-Brother security you're delusional. It'll be in place by 2012.

      But thanks for Trolling.

    5. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And before you freak out, I'm not calling Bush a lame duck

      How about a twat, can we call him a twat?

    6. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by enjoyoutdoors · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As long as we keep taking these simplistic approaches to terrorism we will never actually make progress. We have so many more tools at our disposal than creating a police state. It's tragic for future generations that we can't think in more than one direction.

    7. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      My question remains this: How do you pass through an airport without stress? If stress is the indicator of hostile intent, then it seems all parties present are hostile. Either that, or this system will suffer from an extremely low signal-to-noise ratio.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    8. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As long as we keep taking these simplistic approaches to terrorism we will never actually make progress. We have so many more tools at our disposal than creating a police state. It's tragic for future generations that we can't think in more than one direction.

      What makes you think they even care about catching terrorists? The police state *is* the goal.

    9. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Funny

      That would be FAIR trials were deemed un-necessary in 2001. 2025 the officers will be upgraded to judges and will have flying motorcycles and it will revolutionize justice by allowing the Officers to be judge, jury and executioner.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    10. Re:And with a 100% conviction rate by Ihmhi · · Score: 2, Funny

      Huh. Mayans were right, it seems.

  2. hhhmm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah right.

    1. Re:hhhmm. by linhares · · Score: 1

      Today is April one, or January one?

  3. finally! by InsertWittyNameHere · · Score: 5, Funny

    finally! we'll know what women want!

    1. Re:finally! by mikewas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, we'll only know what they think they want.

      --

      "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." --Napoleon Bonaparte
    2. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sex and then get married to the guy she slept with?
      Good old oxytocin...

    3. Re:finally! by Daimanta · · Score: 2, Funny

      Diamonds and shoes.

      The rest is of lesser importance.

      Disclaimer: This post has an error margin of 22%

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    4. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They want to have a lot of attention. If that means sleeping with you to get it, they do that. If you're willing to give them the attention they want without them having to sleep with you, they're all about that, too. That's why the friendzone sucks.

    5. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My sister says her favorite objects are swimming pools and anatomy labs. Yeah. Your error of margin excludes the idea of whole families of slashdot readers.

    6. Re:finally! by Zacobi · · Score: 1

      If I had mod points i'd mod that insightful. Only because it took me about 10 potential lays to work that shit out.

      Good advice.

    7. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, we'll only know what they think they want.

      Yes. Like why do women fake orgasms? Because they like to think men care.

    8. Re:finally! by strawberryutopia · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'll give you a hint:
      we like huge diamonds cut into the shape of shoes! But we tend to settle for chocolate.

      --
      I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar...
      -Lucy-
    9. Re:finally! by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      If she wanted a fat cock in her pussy, would she tell you? Yeah. Your anecdote excludes families that aren't into inbreeding.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    10. Re:finally! by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Yes. We want to be left alone, not having to go through a gauntlet of boys' toys that see through our clothes, weigh and measure us, and treat us like we're a deli food item just because we want to go see mom for Christmas!

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    11. Re:finally! by Isotopian · · Score: 2, Funny

      You seem like a very bitter person who overuses the bold tag.

      --

      It's poetry with a beat behind it! And guns! They're like beatniks with automatic weapons.

    12. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If she wanted a fat cock in her pussy, would she tell you? Yeah. Your anecdote excludes families that aren't into inbreeding.

      Actually, she did tell him that, but in a typical fashion she said it in a round-about way, and he plain old didn't get it.
      From his own post:

      My sister says her favorite objects are [...] anatomy labs

      Exactly what do you think is IN an "anatomy lab"? I'll give you a clue- the term "lab" doesn't necessarily mean a building & most likely is not an abbreviation of "Laboratory". If you conduct an "Anatomy Lab" it could mean doing anything related to examining, or performing experiments involving, anatomy.
      "Lab" could also be an abbrevation for "Labia".

      Dude, your sister is a Lesbian Slut.

    13. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, girlintraining, are not a credible source - yet. Come back after the operation.

    14. Re:finally! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Which is in no way related to what they want. :)

      Best example: "I want the nice guy that makes me laugh."... said she, before dating another ass that only wants to fuck her and then threat her like crap.
      If that was true, we'd all have girlfriends fighting for us right now.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    15. Re:finally! by nfc_Death · · Score: 1, Interesting

      BWAHAHAHAHHAHA you actually think its men that are making you compete for attention? Try looking at your own gender, you silly women are all the same, claiming men make them dress up and watch their appearance and are judging them. Men enjoy women almost no matter what they are wearing or look like. Its women who are the catty, judgmental mental-cases who eviscerate each other with their in-gender-competitiveness. Oh and BTW if you want to be left alone, move to the woods, dont cry about men looking at you when you live in a society of 6 billion individuals.

    16. Re:finally! by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      You seem like a very bitter person who overuses the bold tag.

      Bite me.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    17. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I want the nice guy that makes me laugh." NO WOMEN WANT THAT. What they really are saying is that they were attracted to that exciting scumbag who fooled them; but when they say "i just want a nice sincere guy" what they mean is "I want an exciting scumbag who will be dominated by me and will treat me better than he has treated the other 30 women he's had last year". Just a lesson learned through tough times...

    18. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, fucking her and treating her like crap makes me laugh, and laughter is contagious...

    19. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sir, win the Golden Hammer award for hitting the nail squarely on the head.

    20. Re:finally! by Isotopian · · Score: 1

      Ooh, italics now!

      --

      It's poetry with a beat behind it! And guns! They're like beatniks with automatic weapons.

    21. Re:finally! by trolltalk.com · · Score: 2, Funny

      BWAHAHAHAHHAHA you actually think its men that are making you compete for attention? Try looking at your own gender, you silly women are all the same, claiming men make them dress up and watch their appearance and are judging them. Men enjoy women almost no matter what they are wearing or look like. Its women who are the catty, judgmental mental-cases who eviscerate each other with their in-gender-competitiveness. Oh and BTW if you want to be left alone, move to the woods, dont cry about men looking at you when you live in a society of 6 billion individuals.

      Keep in mind that you can be replaced with a turkey baster and a carton of Hagen-Daaz.

    22. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we'll only know what they think they want.

      Men always know what women want, it's just hard men to give women what they want :)

    23. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The expected /. response. Girls? UGH. They give you cooties.

    24. Re:finally! by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 2, Funny

      Girls? UGH. They give you cooties.

      What are these "girls" of which you speak?

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    25. Re:finally! by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 2, Funny

      Keep in mind that you can be replaced with a turkey baster and a carton of Hagen-Daaz.

      Wait, you mean that's not ice cream?!?

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    26. Re:finally! by trolltalk.com · · Score: 2, Funny

      Tim Allen: "I just finished milking the cow":
      Amish guy: "We don't have a cow."

    27. Re:finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The friendzone sucks? Really? Cool. I can hardly imagine a nicer circle of female friends, even if they don't "sleep" with me. Please PLEASE let me subscribe to your newsletter...

    28. Re:finally! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1
      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  4. Skin temp = stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or just a raging hangover?

  5. Bullshit by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > No more waving a wand to get through checkpoints -- the new checkpoint can detect if you
    > have plans to set off a bomb before you even enter the building.

    In other words, anyone who looks Islamic will be stopped and searched as will a few others chosen at random.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Bullshit by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      Islamic people come in different colors. My cousin is married to a Muslim who's pasty eastern European. One of my friends from high school as a black Muslim and another was an Afghan Muslim (not sure if that's arabic or not).

    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So it's business as usual I guess?

    3. Re:Bullshit by miknix · · Score: 1

      all your future actions are belongs to us

    4. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's precisely the kind of point that will be (and, in fact, already is) lost on TSA screeners, cops and the like.

    5. Re:Bullshit by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      In other words, anyone who looks Islamic will be stopped and searched as will a few others chosen at random.

      I know no one reads TFA, but doesn't it bother anyone that the screenshot is Windows XP?

      How long before the system can detect people who don't pass the Windows Genuine Advantage test, or it detects an image of a penguin or a logo from any one of the numerous Linux distributions--and then flags you as "terrorist, shoot on sight"?

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    6. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just force anyone who wants to fly to watch a short gay porn clip. Slightly inconvenient to most of us who are straight and a pain in the ass to the fundies (of no particular religion). Sounds like a plan to me.

    7. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As it should be; sorry but it isn't racial profiling when the majority of terrorist are of a certain group.

    8. Re:Bullshit by Spatial · · Score: 1

      effective, efficient, speedy and cheap, in that order.

      Hah! You got the order backwards.

    9. Re:Bullshit by GooberToo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Seriously - what goals do airport security checkpoins have?

      It gets even worse. The TSA is actively working to ensure pilots are now screened before they can enter the tarmac/airplane or leave the tarmac/airplane to enter the a terminal area. It seems the TSA has decided the pilots who fly the planes are a higher threat on the ground where they can do less damage than a pilot in the air flying a jet full of fuel and passengers. Remember, in smaller airports, people (including pilots) still walk on the tarmac to board/deboard the plane.

      This of course all ignores the fact TSA agents have been caught damaging critical pitot sensors on many commercial planes. Some of those planes continued to fly dozens of hours before the damage was detected. If in doubt how critical these sensors can be to the safety of a flight, here is a video of what happens when one becomes overly contaminated with moisture or is simply not calibrated properly - no physical damage required.

    10. Re:Bullshit by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah, the shortsightedness of youth. Sit down at grandpa's knee and let me tell you of my youth, when airplanes were hijacked to Cuba by almost everybody, and Japanese people shot up airports, and German and Italian terrorists were almost as feared as the Irish, never mind crew-cut Americans driving rented trucks.

      Sure, you can grab all the Muslims, and that might bag you two-thirds of the world's fanatics, but that last third will still kill you dead.

      --

      This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

    11. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, because 'the americans force homosexuality on people' does not make great propaganda at all.

    12. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I'm nowhere near that paranoid/crazy, I do think running XP is a problem. This kind of system makes their network security a huge issue, and running XP where security is extremely important makes me uneasy.

    13. Re:Bullshit by rabbit994 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      XP is bloody operating system for personal computer, not operating system for AI that operates terminator drones. Microsoft probably didn't even build the system they are using and doesn't know their OS is being used for said system. Like most things done for government, a contractor build the system, they developed in Windows because A. Government is more then happy to spend your tax dollars on Windows licenses. B. Windows programmers are dime a dozen.

      Try not seeing evil conspiracy where there is none. You can probably walk through check point wearing a Linux TShirt and system isn't going to deploy ceiling mounted turrets and blow you away. You might want to try removing the tinfoil, I think it's cutting off circulation.

    14. Re:Bullshit by dafrazzman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      99 percent of any and all past and present attacks against airline travel perpetrated - through passengers or baggage! - were committed by people who a) claimed they were doing it for Islam and b) who have declared as being of Muslim faith.

      All "airline terrorists" - against which airport security can provide any protection - are a proper subset of "People is Muslim faith".

      Therefore, it is not only logical to exclude non-Muslims from security checks but beneficial, as it wastes less resources and security staff to search improbable suspects.

      Yeah, it's not like there were ever any non-Muslim hijackers that endangered countless lives for non-religious reasons, like, say, money or anything. That wouldn't make any sense. (I know you know are aware of some, but it is hardly 1%)

      Even if this were the case, the lack of any non-Muslim terrorists does not mean that there never will be any. Your logic is intensely flawed. "It's [almost] never happened before so let's just assume it never will."

      As a third objection, I don't believe in justified racism (or religious discrimination, I don't see any moral difference). You're saying "a few Muslims hijacked planes before, and I don't remember anyone else doing it, so let's just check any and all Muslims and nobody else." People shouldn't be persecuted and harassed (and that's exactly what it would be) because of what they believe, or because of how they were born (Arab, for example). Even if it did make sense (it doesn't) to let everyone else through, the thing is, it's just not fair. Maybe my ideals of equality, be it racial, religious, or whatever, are a little old fashioned for you, but I stand by them.

      --
      My preferred name is frazz, but someone keeps taking it. If you see him, tell him I said hi.
    15. Re:Bullshit by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      It gets even worse. The TSA is actively working to ensure pilots are now screened before they can enter the tarmac/airplane or leave the tarmac/airplane to enter the a terminal area.

      You mean they'll be breathalysed instead of the usual 'smell n steady' check the stewardesses currently perform?

    16. Re:Bullshit by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      it bases on how "shifty" or "worried" you look. I'd guess this would serve as a good suggestion.

      I'd wonder if they've REALLY tested this... put it in front of a union auto plant or police station on layoff day and watch the false positive roll in! I'd bet there are places a lot of upset, pissed off, scared people are that don't do anything wrong. As long as they view this as "one more hint" at selecting people to question it will be OK... if they start using this as the sole reason people will get upset rather quickly.

    17. Re:Bullshit by Torvaun · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, that -is- racial profiling, but that doesn't mean it's ineffective or wrong.

      --
      I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
    18. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're "discrimination is never justified" is an intolerant attitude. And you don't really have that attitude.

      I'll point out "darfur" : muslims massacring blacks, for "religious reasons", exactly as their "holy" texts dictate.

      So you're not really against racism. You just think for some reasons in a sort of "victim hierarchy". Muslims are victims, and so are blacks. But blacks are less, so muslims get to kill blacks.

      That attitude is, of course, racist.

    19. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then what you do is hire a white guy and dress him up as a Catholic priest.

    20. Re:Bullshit by tristes_tigres · · Score: 1

      "show me one non-Muslim passenger with a bomb and then we'll talk" Louis Posada Carriles.

    21. Re:Bullshit by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      And reality continues to move closer and closer to the worldview in Team America, World Police.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    22. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck yeah. I work at an airside store in an airport and getting through security every day is a massive nuisance. I know there must be a random element to the metal detector because i've been through with nothing metal on me and it has gone off several times (forcing a thorough "pat down"/"frisk" of one's person. Quite frustrating if it happens several days on the trot). Also, they occasionally check any bags randomly.

    23. Re:Bullshit by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your logic is the only one that's flawed. Clearly an indicator of how terrorist someone is is his (/her) faith. Or rather : his/her ideology. Compared to christianity, islam is a political party, after all. That's what "no separation between mosque and state" means.

      Let's just do what any intelligent algorithm does : look at the statistics, and derive from there without ANY regard for any political sensibilities, current, past. Imagined or real. If it turns out that being a muslim is a good indicator of trying to attack innocents, then let's use it ! Why, exactly, must people die (that's what happens if security checks have a false negative), just so you can feel good about yourself ?

      Let's just look at the statistics, year over year. The year after muslims stop killing innocents "for their faith", the searches of muslims stop.

      THAT would be fair. Excluding them from checks would be stupid, dangerous and grossly racist (towards both them and everyone else).

      After world-war 2 holocaust victims were imprisoned due to cholera infections. Not all were infected, but the tests were too expensive to separate the infected from the rest, so this added allied imprisonment was for more than a few of them a death sentence. And if they hadn't done that, several millions of innocents would have died in all major cities, because the economy didn't allow for any large-scale treatment of people. And they would have died for no good reason other than politicians feeling good.

      Let's not be idiots, just because you're too narrow-minded to admit that, yes the obvious truth is indeed true : ideology matters. Religions and political theories are not equal : some kill to prove they're right. Some love. Some simply work. islam is in the first category.

      And let's not kid ourselves, the faith that is eradicating black people for their skin color in darfur is not (at all) tolerant. Tolerating racist killers is not tolerance at all.

    24. Re:Bullshit by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Islamic people come in different colors.

      I'm aware of that. Tell it to the assholes in the Department of Looking Under the Bed.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    25. Re:Bullshit by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      You are correct that right now at the start of 2009; with the data we have being Muslim is a pretty good predictor of the likely hood your or I are would be terrorists. I agree with you that it therefore makes sense to focus some additional attention on Muslims(when that can be identified) around high value targets like airports. That does not however mean its at all unlikely that a non-muslim terrorist with attack. Yes the data says we should focus more attention on Muslims but we would be doing a HUGE disservice if we for even one moment forget we are fighting terrorism and think we are fighting Muslim terrorism. Experience can teach us where trouble is most likely in many situations it can't eliminate other possiblilites.

      Sure look at the Muslims first; but don't stop looking after you are done there.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    26. Re:Bullshit by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      XP is bloody operating system for personal computer, not operating system for AI that operates terminator drones. Microsoft probably didn't even build the system they are using and doesn't know their OS is being used for said system. Like most things done for government, a contractor build the system, they developed in Windows because A. Government is more then happy to spend your tax dollars on Windows licenses. B. Windows programmers are dime a dozen.

      Try not seeing evil conspiracy where there is none. You can probably walk through check point wearing a Linux TShirt and system isn't going to deploy ceiling mounted turrets and blow you away. You might want to try removing the tinfoil, I think it's cutting off circulation.

      Whoa...settle down man--it was a joke.

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    27. Re:Bullshit by dafrazzman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It can, perhaps, be established that being a terrorist means you are likely a Muslim. However, that does not mean that being a Muslim is a good indicator of being a terrorist. This is a logical inverse error (p implies q, therefore q implies p). When faced with millions of Muslims and maybe hundreds of Muslim terrorists, it makes little sense to generalize.

      Again, maybe I'm just discriminating against discrimination. I don't think we should emphasize certain minority groups without very good reason. I think it's worth going a little out of our way to treat people equally (without compromising security).

      --
      My preferred name is frazz, but someone keeps taking it. If you see him, tell him I said hi.
    28. Re:Bullshit by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 3, Funny

      99 percent of any and all past and present attacks against airline travel perpetrated - through passengers or baggage! - were committed by people who a) claimed they were doing it for Islam and b) who have declared as being of Muslim faith.

      All "airline terrorists" - against which airport security can provide any protection - are a proper subset of "People is Muslim faith".

      Take this thread to Cuba!

    29. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheers.

    30. Re:Bullshit by maxume · · Score: 1

      Not crashing is essential to successfully running an airline. If the sensors are truly critical, it is the airlines' fault that they are not paying better attention to the random people that have access to their planes.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    31. Re:Bullshit by maxume · · Score: 1

      Also, an effective Muslim detector would awful hard to actually build.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    32. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, it is established that, for now, being a terrorist means you are likely a Muslim. There is no "perhaps". IRA, ETA and other non-muslism terrorist groups or individuals are a tiny minority and are not very active.

      Second, the whole problem has nothing to do with logic, but with statistics and practical reasons. It is impossible to screen everyone, so there is a need for a quick way to select a small and manageable subset of the people. No, this is not fair and no, this is not a 100% reliable, but from a practical point of view it is a lot better than pure random screening.

    33. Re:Bullshit by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Funny

      There will be no one left to tell. Fundies decay to ashes when rays of gayness fall upon them. Didn't ya know?

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    34. Re:Bullshit by linhares · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ALL terrorists had noses. If the person has a fucking nose, that is a clue right there. See the logic?

    35. Re:Bullshit by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Also, an effective Muslim detector would awful hard to actually build.

      Well, I can think of one way to do it, but it might give you false positives and only works on males ;)

      +5 funny or -1 troll? Let the mods decide!

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    36. Re:Bullshit by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      This is a logical inverse error (p implies q, therefore q implies p).

      And your point is a logical fallacy, because it deliberately obsures information that would render it invalid. Yes the absolute is wrong, there are non-muslim terrorists. However the point was simply : does believing in allah (the choice a muslim make), believing in islamic doctrine, make someone more likely to be a terrorist ?

      And the answer is a simple, and overwhelming, yes. Maths has quite a bit to say about the problem, more than just "you can't reverse the decution". You CAN reverse the deduction, if you don't require 100% certainty.

      In fact reversing the deduction is the very basis of everyone's spam checker here. Let's use Bayes theorem and calculate how much claiming belief in islam's paedophile prophet changes the chance of being a terrorist :

      You have 2 partitions in the population that you want to compare for overlap : muslim vs non-muslim and terrorist versus non-terrorist. Let's say 90% of the terrorists are muslim (which is generous, since it's closer to 99% in the last 10-20 years) and simply fill in the values. Let's say there are 10.000 terrorists we should catch (which is most certainly an understatement), and 900 million muslims (which is certainly an overestemate if you exclude secular muslims, and the various sects that don't commit terrorism, in fact it might easily be only half that). 6 billion people alive (which is an underestimate, some people say 7 billion is already passed).

      terrorist divisions :
      90% muslim = 9000 people
      10% non-muslim = 1000 people

      So the chance that someone is a terrorist given that he/she is muslim is :

      P(T | M) = P(T AND M) / P(M) = (9000 / 900 million) / (6 billion / 900 million) = 1e-5 / 7 > 1e-6

      Given that someone's muslim there's 1.5 chance in a million that he is currently attempting to randomly kill others. (meaning in the US there are at least 7 people hard at work killing other americans for allah, given the 99% figure, that would be 70 people for america alone, and for europe the figures are just dismal)

      P(T | NM) = P(T AND NM) / P(NM) = (1000/5100000000) / (5100000000/6000000000) = 1.960784313725490196e-07 / 0.85 = 2.3e-7

      Given that someone's not muslim the chances that he(/she) is trying to kill others is 0.25 chance in a million.

      So there we have it : that someone's muslim raises the chance that he's trying to kill others randomly by a factor of 6.

      And that's given very, very kind numbers to begin. If we were to take 99% of the terrorists as muslims, which is closer to the true numbers that would make muslims 60 times more likely to be terrorists.

      You also, obviously need to take into account the absolute values of these chances, which are small. But clearly, bayes, a neutral system because it does not have politics, it is a fucking equation, would use the fact that someone's muslim to try and assess the probability that he's a terrorist.

      It would probably be less important than someone's age (there has yet to be a terrorist over 40), but more important than his/her nationality or looks.

      So there's the verdict : belief in islamic doctrine makes someone at least 6 times (and more likely 60 times) more likely to be someone who likes to randomly kill innocent people.

    37. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's also not forget the doctrinal difference. An IRA terrorist states "may God forgive me" at his trial.

      A muslim terrorist states "allah will kill you all" or makes some statements about jews being apes and pigs. (it's funny how "tolerant" we've become of jew-hatred due to a paedophilic desert "prophet")

      It can hardly be considered an accident that islam breeds more terrorists.

    38. Re:Bullshit by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      99 percent of any and all past and present attacks against airline travel perpetrated - through passengers or baggage! - were committed by people who a) claimed they were doing it for Islam and b) who have declared as being of Muslim faith.

      Even if the above statement were true...

      Therefore, it is not only logical to exclude non-Muslims from security checks but beneficial, as it wastes less resources and security staff to search improbable suspects.

      The above conclusion would be terribly short-sighted. Assuming that only Muslims need to be checked as potential terrorists is like holding up a giant "BOMB HERE" sign to the next Timothy McVeigh or Aum Shinrikyo.

      In short, just because a condition is true today doesn't mean it will be true tomorrow. Especially if you start cutting corners in such a way that makes it very easy for non-muslim terrorists to, well, terrorize.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    39. Re:Bullshit by Blublu · · Score: 1, Funny

      I want "bacon and a kiss airlines", where you eat a strip of bacon and give someone of the same sex as you a kiss. This proves you're not a muslim, and you can get on the airplane without any additional security theatrics.

      --
      meh
    40. Re:Bullshit by davolfman · · Score: 1

      At least it will be QUICK security theater. Which is what we need. Best of course would be to simply require all flight crew to carry a gun loaded with frangibles.

    41. Re:Bullshit by Idarubicin · · Score: 1

      ...pilots who fly the planes are a higher threat on the ground where they can do less damage than a pilot in the air flying a jet full of fuel and passengers.

      While I fully agree that much of what the TSA does is near-useless security theater, the statement I've quoted isn't necessarily as absurd as it appears at first glance. Sure, a pilot in the air with a jet full of fuel and passengers could do a tremendous amount of damage. But - and this 'but' is key - he can only do that damage by sacrificing himself.

      On the other hand, a pilot on the tarmac doesn't have to expose himself to death or near-certain capture to be a very useful accomplice in a malicious act. Being able to move contraband freely from tarmac to terminal could be quite useful.

      That said, if you're at the point where your security depends on catching airline pilot conspirators as they smuggle bomb-making materials or firearms in from the tarmac, you might as well just give up.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    42. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grandpa, isn't time for your medicine?

    43. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let us just suppose that;
        There are 12 terrorist attacks committed in a three week span. Of these 12 a full eleven were witnessed, and all said the terrorists were men about 5'10" and had long red hair. These men had strapped liquid nitrogen bombs to their inner thighs. If you were in charge of security, would you be more (or less) inclined to give much closer scrutiny to any men with red hair?

      If you did indeed look more closely at men with red hair, would you be profiling?
      Suppose dyeing their hair red was part of their religious beliefs. If you looked at them as potential terrorists, would this be religious discrimination?
      If the only way to detect the bomb was to 'pat them down' , would you do this to everyone who passed through your security check point, or just red heads. Would women be exempt? How about people 6'5" or 4'3"?

      Albiecy4

    44. Re:Bullshit by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Godwin's Law calls for mentioning HITLER, not Castro or Cuba.

      Didn't you get the memo?

    45. Re:Bullshit by phoenix321 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Interesting link, thank you. Although the incident is 30 years past, it's nevertheless good to know that there really were non-Muslim airline bombers.

      With a ratio of 1:400 including incidents from 30 years ago were looking at a pretty distinct group where airline terrorists come from, but still.

    46. Re:Bullshit by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      That's not a small risk, you're right.

      But you'd be wasting costly resources protecting against very unlikely threats.

      Anyway, I think we're all agreeing on the simple fact that it's impossible to identify the religion (or any other mindset) of all possible passengers. Orthodox Jews, Catholic Nuns, Shia Imams clearly stand out, but people in business attire could belong to any possible group and whose look would not yield any clues.

      We should conclude that we don't do equal searches of all passengers to not hurt anyone's feelings but to protect against idiots from all sides. Strip searching even Buddhist monks would otherwise make no sense.

    47. Re:Bullshit by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      That's what I meant, exactly. If you see a clear pattern yielding clues to prevent further attacks, you have to use that pattern, wisely, of course.

      You'd not even need to know the reasoning behind the connection of red hair and bombings, if it is by chance or essential part of a cultish behavior - it's just there and clearly identifiable.

      If you only protect against redheads, you're vulnerable when all cult members dye their hair blue - you're protecting against the color of last week, so to say.

      But having clues and doing nothing with them would be infinitely stupid. Doing nothing with these clues just for the reason to not hurt anyone's FEELINGS would be criminal negligent, though.

      Dead people don't scream "racism!" but in my view life and limb trump feelings all the time.

    48. Re:Bullshit by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Great posts like yours are the reason why intellectuals of every kind are usually sent to re-education in socialist revolutions. You know too much and present hard facts, which ideologists avoid like the plague.

      Thanks for this calculation.

    49. Re:Bullshit by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      "Well, here I have this delicious grilled medaillon of pork. To qualify for speedy check-in, you have to eat it."

      Works for all ages and genders, except for Jews, Buddhists, Vegetarians and Vegans. Has a catch-22 side effect on Muslims: eat pork to get through security easy, but not to Heaven and the 72 virgins afterwards - or not eat pork and be security-checked and probably not get the virgins, either.

      Win-win for pork eaters, hard times for innocent non-pork eaters mentioned above.

    50. Re:Bullshit by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      And all the people you mentioned either tend brown, yellow or liberal, so where's the problem, right?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    51. Re:Bullshit by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Wrong.

      TSA trumps pretty much everything else. The airlines were not informed of such *illegal* access to their aircraft. What the TSA agent did violated federal law and regulation.

    52. Re:Bullshit by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, a pilot on the tarmac doesn't have to expose himself to death or near-certain capture to be a very useful accomplice in a malicious act. Being able to move contraband freely from tarmac to terminal could be quite useful.

      Then they need to do the same to air marshals and all TSA agents. Pilots are already investigated as well as federal air marshals. So if we take the next step in logic, federal air marshals are now likely accomplices to malicious acts. I can only assume you didn't realize the background checks pilots now go through. Of course, this means every TSA agent is a covert terrorists waiting to strike. This is just dumb.

    53. Re:Bullshit by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      No, that's not what I mean. I mean exactly what I said.

    54. Re:Bullshit by maxume · · Score: 1

      No, if anybody accessed the airplanes without the airlines noticing, they have an operational problem.

      The airlines might not be able to prevent the TSA from stomping in and breaking shit, but they damn well better notice that it happened. That the TSA fails to announce what they are doing is irrelevant to what the airlines should be doing.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    55. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And because you want to be fair to everyone, we all have to pay the price of Muslim fanaticism. OP is right, the current threat today isn't Russians or Japanese or Cubans, it's Muslims. Now if for some reason India (chosen arbitrarily here) decide they hate us and want us all dead, then we should start searching them, too. This wouldn't be the first time PC has caused a lot of people to die and a whole lot more to be very, very annoyed. And don't speak of your ideals of equality. No one is equal. We never have been, and we never will. And trying to hide from the truth is only making the problem worse. The best solution is to do what makes the most people happy. Unfortunately, PC makes everyone unhappy while only partially preserving a few's right to be not offended.

    56. Re:Bullshit by zen_sky · · Score: 1

      TFA doesn't say anything about skin color. Its only 200 words or so long, try reading it. At least you labeled your post correctly!

    57. Re:Bullshit by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      XP is bloody operating system for personal computer, not operating system for AI that operates terminator drones

      Obviously - the terminator drones are very reliable.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    58. Re:Bullshit by BDJones · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's amazing. A person that thinks technology is incapable of determining terrorist intent by measuring respiration, heartbeat, and other tell-tale physical indicators with dispassionate objective sampling tests, nevertheless thinks he can determine motivations without reviewing the design specs. That is indeed ironic.

    59. Re:Bullshit by BDJones · · Score: 1

      So basically you are willing to risk other peoples lives to ensure a politically correct approach to security. I wonder what would have happened to your precious civil liberties if, during WW II the federal Govt had decided not to focus their security efforts on German people seeking to kill non-German people and had instead spent billions of dollars on say, screening Muslims as they entered the country. HMMM...I wonder how effective that would have been? And how would the non-combatant Muslims of the WWII era have reacted to being treated like Nazis? If you want to survive in war time, you focus mainly on the current threat, not some historic threat or a theoretical future threat. Or as liberals in Congress whined after 9-11, you "connect the dots." As one Louisiana State Guard commander once said: "Don't get stuck on stupid."

    60. Re:Bullshit by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      That's why they're searching everybody all the same right now.

      Searching everyone and ignoring differential clues for not hurting feelings of intelligent and reasonable adults is pretty retarded.

      Everyone has a nose. Not everyone is Muslim. Yet almost every terrorist is Muslim. So why should we ignore this strong pattern? Because of someone's sissy feelings?

      Insightful, my ass.

    61. Re:Bullshit by linhares · · Score: 1

      Because correlation is not causation and the day you find yourself being on the other side of the equation, i.e., being prejudiced against, you just might understand why it is fucking wrong to bully 99.9% of a population.

    62. Re:Bullshit by ultranova · · Score: 1

      But you'd be wasting costly resources protecting against very unlikely threats.

      By that logic, it doesn't pay to search anyone. People willing to die just to take a few hundred strangers with them aren't exactly common.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    63. Re:Bullshit by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And so what?
      In the UK in the 1970s 99% of serious terrorism was by the PIRA, this didn't mean the government could simply pick on anyone Irish and treat them as terrorists.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    64. Re:Bullshit by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You'd not even need to know the reasoning behind the connection of red hair and bombings, if it is by chance or essential part of a cultish behavior - it's just there and clearly identifiable.

      It still wouldn't justify victimising all people with red hair though.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    65. Re:Bullshit by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1
      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  6. Retarded by drsmall17 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is retarded. Suppose I have to go to the bathroom and look nervous like I won't make it time? I'll probably set off the scanner as a suspected terrorist.

    --
    Oday ouyay antway otay ayplay away amegay?
    1. Re:Retarded by xOneca · · Score: 1

      Then they'll keep you more time...

    2. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I would venture that 78% is based on hits out of total targets... meaning they're running 22% false negative, not 22% false positive. From a security standpoint, that's a lot worse.

    3. Re:Retarded by ccguy · · Score: 2, Funny

      You can always count on some other slashdotter trying to trick the system and settings off alarms.

      Since I have to be at the airport 2 hours before take off, at least I'll now something to do.

    4. Re:Retarded by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 5, Funny

      When I was flying back home after visiting a client, I ran towards the men's room at the Cleveland airport and set off an explosion.

    5. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Suppose I have to go to the bathroom and look nervous like I won't make it time? I'll probably set off the scanner as a suspected terrorist.

      I'm afraid so. Wanting to get to a smoking area for a long overdue cigarette would be another good example (from my last encounter with DHS on entry to the US).

    6. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is retarded. Suppose I have to go to the bathroom and look nervous like I won't make it time?

      Ideally, a robotic porta-potty would be dispatched post haste to relieve your discomfort. A C3-pee-oh or a C3-poo-oh, depending upon your need.

    7. Re:Retarded by qbast · · Score: 1

      Just hope it won't be the last thing you will ever do. Or at least last thing before being shipped to whatever hellhole replaces Guantanamo.

    8. Re:Retarded by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes. TSA agents are so known for their sense of humor.
      Enjoy your encore in the backroom and the trip to Gitmo.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    9. Re:Retarded by peragrin · · Score: 2, Funny

      wouldn't that be you dropped a bomb in the men's room at the cleveland airport?

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    10. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A new line for anti-tobacco lobby: "Smoking gets you arrested at gunpoint!"

    11. Re:Retarded by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt the USA, or the Balkenized version that will likely exist in the future, will be able to afford any checkpoints. Somebody isn't paying attention to national and global finance......

    12. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the bright side, if you set of the security alarm because you're constipated, the full body cavity search will really help cure your problem!

    13. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then piss yourself when security attacks. this world is going in such a bad direction with this kind of stuff.

    14. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those dirty bombs are murder!

    15. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few years ago, I got my private pilot's license. I haven't used it in awhile, but if this ever goes into effect, I just may pick it up again.

    16. Re:Retarded by it_begins · · Score: 0

      Yeah, what If I'm just trying to smuggle my bong through security? That might make me look nervous too.

    17. Re:Retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife is quite terrified of flying. Were she forced to travel by plane, she could do it, but I doubt she could get through the airport without being strip searched if they look for stress.

  7. False-Positive Rate? by FranklinWebber · · Score: 4, Interesting

    FTA: "We are running at about 78% accuracy on mal-intent detection..."

    And that's supposed to be good? What fraction of the remaining 22% can we expect to be false positives?

    [begin sarcasm]
    I look forward to a future in which the police stop me more than they already do.
    [end sarcasm]

    1. Re:False-Positive Rate? by wjh31 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      i would assume accuracy of mal intent detection only refers to false negatives and true positives (so 22% would be the fraction of false negatives, rather than false positives), it says nothing of the false positives (or true negatives, but they are not of much interest) which could be anything if no numbers are otherwise provided

    2. Re:False-Positive Rate? by FranklinWebber · · Score: 1

      Hello wjh31,

      I am using the terminology as described here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_error

      In this case:

      A) True Positive:
        the alarm goes off and I'm carrying a bomb;
      B) True Negative:
        the alarm doesn't go off and I'm not carrying a bomb;
      C) False Positive:
        the alarm goes off but I'm not carrying a bomb;
      D) False Negative:
        the alarm doesn't go off but I am carrying a bomb.

      Although the article doesn't say, I'd hope that "accuracy" means (A) and (B) only. Then the article should tell us how much of "22%" is (C) and how much is (D). As noted below in the "Love the accuracy" thread, both (C) and (D) are problems, but we can fully expect that government will underestimate the cost to society of (C). Based on past experience with systems of this kind, we can expect that the cost of (C) ("False Positives") will be high.

    3. Re:False-Positive Rate? by flappinbooger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What fraction of the remaining 22% can we expect to be false positives?

      Those can be justified away. It's the false negatives that folks will (ahem) have a hard time living with.

      Seriously now, isn't todays smart terrorist working on "projects" that don't involve airports, airlines, airplanes, and going through an airport security checkpoint?

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    4. Re:False-Positive Rate? by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      So I assume they don't shoot to kill all people they think have mal intent; they just taze 'em bro.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    5. Re:False-Positive Rate? by calmofthestorm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well even if we'd kept everything the same, 9/11 couldn't have happened again. Once the hostages know they're going to die, they tend to fight back. Up until then they'd just been told to cooperate.

      And yes, you're right. We all know this is security theatre. The thing is, without it people get scared and the nation suffers economic and social loss. These aren't necessary to protect us from the boogeymen but they are necessary to protect people from (semi) rational fear.

      Of course then you have the /real/ problems facing this nation and the world, but there you go.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    6. Re:False-Positive Rate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ell even if we'd kept everything the same, 9/11 couldn't have happened again. Once the hostages know they're going to die, they tend to fight back. Up until then they'd just been told to cooperate.

      This is exactly why one of the planes never got to a target. That plane contained Americans, who acted like Free people. Every one of them should be a National Hero.

      The other planes contained Sheep, who believed that the government acts in their best interests, knows what they are doing, and protects the population.

      The 'right to bear arms' was never intended to be a mechanism to allow the population to overthrow the government, like many nutjobs claim. It was intended to be a statement that ultimately, the government can never fully protect the population, even with a huge, bloated military, & in order to stay secure the citizens should have the right & responsibility to defend themselves on an individual basis.

      The solution is simple: let people carry guns on the plane, and put a bullet-proof door on the cockpit.

      The cold, harsh truth is: we will never be 100% secure, ever. People get weapons & drugs into Maximum Security jails, what makes you think they won't figure out how to get a boxcutter onto an airplane?

      So yes, 9/11 could (and eventually probably will) happen again, except next time the 'terrorists' will just kill everyone onboard first, and crash the plane later.

      Oh, and as a side note, I find it interesting that the the only difference between a "Terrorist" and a "Freedom Fighter" is whether the US government supports the group, or hates who they target.

    7. Re:False-Positive Rate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're still wrong.

    8. Re:False-Positive Rate? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      78% is probably quite good for airport security. I know I once took a sharp craft knife on to a plane (in 2007) by accident (forgot I packed it inside a bag which went inside by carry-on bag) and no-one noticed.

      The ban on liquids over 200ml is another good example. Even if you get caught, all they do is take it off you and you are then free to try and sneak more on again, and again and again. Or, just find four like-minded individuals and you can take on a combined total of 1 litre.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:False-Positive Rate? by ResidntGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That plane contained Americans, who acted like Free people. Every one of them should be a National Hero. The other planes contained Sheep, who believed that the government acts in their best interests, knows what they are doing, and protects the population.

      The difference between Flight 93 and the other three hijacked planes is that the passengers on Flight 93 communicated sufficiently with the outside world to know that other planes had been hijacked and subsequently flown into buildings. They weren't better people, they weren't unusually brave "National Heroes", and the passengers in the other planes weren't sheep.

      And you're an idiot, for thinking so strongly enough to apparently never even attempt to find out the real reason.

      Next time you want to find information, you should read a book instead of making it up out of thin air. In this case, I might particularly recommend the 9/11 Commission Report, as you apparently think yourself capable of commenting on those events.

      --
      ResidntGeek
    10. Re:False-Positive Rate? by glyn.phillips · · Score: 1

      This device sounds a lot like a non-contact polygraph. Now polygraph testing has been somewhat discredited of late, but that does not mean that it's useless.

      It could become a useful supplement to the current search process by indicating who the agents should spend extra time on, or who needs to be checked by a more experienced screener.

    11. Re:False-Positive Rate? by jsiren · · Score: 1

      The false-positive and false-negative rates depend on the frequency of the real event. Suppose an accuracy of 78% as stated in the article. Let's imagine two scenarios of 100 bombs each.

      Suppose one out of every 10 passengers is carrying a bomb. Out of 1000 passengers, 100 will be carrying bombs. 22 will slip through as false negatives; 78 will be correctly detected, along with 198 false positives. To find the 78 bombs, you must sort out 276 alarms.

      Suppose, then, that one out of every million passengers is carrying a bomb. Out of one hundred million passengers, 100 will be carrying bombs. 22 will still slip through as false negatives; 78 will still be correctly detected, but this time with 21999978 others. To find the 78 bombs, you must sort out about 22 million alarms.

      Feel free to correct any mistakes.

      --
      Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
  8. Love the accuracy by Xelios · · Score: 4, Insightful

    78% accurate in a controlled setting is nothing to be proud of. I'll grant the fact that they're still in the early research stages, as they say, but I'd need to see an accuracy rate of over 99% in a real world application for me to consider it a valid option. Otherwise there will be far too many false positives for it to be useful in a high-traffic situation.

    I'll leave it to other people to point out everything else wrong with this kind of system.

    --
    Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
    1. Re:Love the accuracy by slim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      False positives aren't too bad. You just fall back on the old method.

      False negatives would be a bigger problem.

    2. Re:Love the accuracy by arotenbe · · Score: 1

      False positives aren't too bad. You just fall back on the old method.

      Yes, but would they?

      </cynicism>

      --
      Tomato wedge sperm darts that are Republican.
    3. Re:Love the accuracy by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I remember one of the founding fathers saying something about innocent and guilty men and which should go free. But that was probably just a dream; catching all the criminals to save the children is what matters!

    4. Re:Love the accuracy by blueg3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not at all, depending on your false positive rate and the predictability of the false negatives. If false negatives are random and you don't let people who are marked as "dangerous" leave and try again, you don't need your false negative rate to be that low -- it still presents a very significant problem to a potential attacker.

      False positives, on the other hand, are a big problem. The enormous majority of people are negatives, so with any appreciably large false positive rate, nearly all positives will be false. You then need a secondary system to separate real positives from false -- otherwise all you're doing is marking lots of random people as dangerous.

      Granted, all they cite is their "accuracy", which is ambiguous -- it's neither a false positive nor false negative rate.

    5. Re:Love the accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's not necessarily true.

      False positives will breed false negatives if the second layer screening can't keep up. Plus, the more false positives you get, the less vigilant your second layer screeners will become. And the rarer the 'hits', the worse the situation becomes.

      Given the high-volume nature of airports, no automated system will ever realistically reach the level of accuracy you would want. You either have a torrent of false positives so thick you might as well have the current system or the threshold is set low enough that a hypothetical hit has a better than even chance of going undetected. In a statistical context, the only solution to this kind of problem is meta-analysis, which is kind of difficult to perform in an airport context.

    6. Re:Love the accuracy by mbone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      False positives also affect secondary screening - if you have too many of them, it's hard to get people to take them seriously, and they are likely to miss true positives.

    7. Re:Love the accuracy by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's say you have a system that has a 99.9% accuracy rate. What that means is, 99.9% of the time, it catches the terrorist if s/he goes across your magic line. And let's say you have 1 terrorist per million. What this means is that for every million people that cross the line, 1,000 people will be pulled aside for interrogation. Your 99.9% accurate profiling system is 99.9% inaccurate when it comes to discriminating the terrorist from the 9,999 look-alikes.

      Oops.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    8. Re:Love the accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but I'd need to see an accuracy rate of over 99% in a real world application for me to consider it a valid option.

      At 99% accuracy and moderate traffic on a highway, you'd have to deal with terrorist vehicles being detected approximately once every 2 minutes at each checkpoint. How quickly can you cope with all those suspects?

      (of course, at their stated current accuracy, you'll be getting a terrorist suspect every 4 seconds on every checkpoint, so goodluckwiththat)

    9. Re:Love the accuracy by mdmkolbe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even 99% accuracy is useless when the thing you are attempting to detect occurs only 0.000...001% of the time. See False Positive Paradox and Procutor's Fallacy.

    10. Re:Love the accuracy by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This kind of system exacerbates the problems that currently exist. Currently 100% of all searches are performed on non-terrorists and almost 100% are performed on innocent people. Wrap your head around that for a bit. The quality of the searching is based on facts from incidents where terrorists were not caught, not based on terrorists who were. That is to say, oh, if people *can* put explosives in their shoes, we'll search all peoples shoes. All a terrorist has to do is try something that has not been tried before and they will be successful - more or less. I can't wait till someone sneaks a liquid explosive on board a plane inside a bladder that encases their crotch. Yes, the TSA's reaction to that will be awesome!

      This machine will search 100% of all travellers (for a given set of travellers) and any who are pulled aside for further searching is supposedly equal to a smaller number than are searched now. They will still be innocent, but this justifies the inconvenience to them because a machine detected something. What is the accuracy of lie detectors BTW?

      Since there appear to be no stories of Gitmo prisoners being loaned out to security equipment manufacturers the probability that any 'real terrorists' were used to test the machine is zero. Does anyone have the statistics handy? How many terrorists that have been caught since 9/11 have been caught anywhere near an airport, never mind trying to board the plane?

      This seems to amount to a lie detector test that you are forced to take because you choose the criminal activity of traveling from one place to another by air. Apparently, if you wanted to bomb a bus there is no one to stop you. If you want to poison a water supply there is no one to stop you. If you wanted to sabotage an underwater cable there is no one to stop you. If you wanted to car bomb a public building there is no one to stop you. Think about that for a second or two. Airport security as it is currently implemented is 99% waste of time and resources. It inconveniences all, catches no guilty persons, and robs resources away from efforts to protect other infrastructure etcetera.

      What would I suggest we do for security? The same thing we do for security for any other public transportation. The goal of terrorism is to make you waste resources, to make a violent statement that circumvents any implemented security. It's a whack-a-mole game. Catching terrorists should be done long before they strap on the explosives. That's the only effective way to catch them. I don't have links, but I can't remember any story about a terrorist being caught by airport security measures. The only ones that were caught were caught with normal pre-9/11 police measures. Right now, the terrorists are winning.

    11. Re:Love the accuracy by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apparently, if you wanted to bomb a bus there is no one to stop you. If you want to poison a water supply there is no one to stop you. If you wanted to sabotage an underwater cable there is no one to stop you. If you wanted to car bomb a public building there is no one to stop you.

      Ah, sir? Would you mind stepping over here for a minute?

      We have a few questions we'd like to ask you.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    12. Re:Love the accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do a PCA on the original experimental data and implement a layered system to measure the components of resulting subspace. Automatic sensitivity analysis could reveal significantly more information after the layered passive system have been triggered. There is a reason for those security guards at Israeli public places. They perform the sensitivity analysis by creating a stimulus for a possible suicide bomber. The bomber reacts early out of fear and reaveals his/hers intention possibly killing the guard in the process.

    13. Re:Love the accuracy by AusIV · · Score: 1

      From that respect, I can't see it being any worse than having everyone go through screening. If everyone is screened, the default assumption is that a person's intentions are benign. If only people flagged as malicious go through secondary screening, the default assumption is still going to be that the person's intentions are benign, but that assumption will carry a lower weight.

    14. Re:Love the accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the other 999,000 of us are safer. Hence the utility of the system.

    15. Re:Love the accuracy by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      To play devils advocate, there's a difference between letting a guitly man escape jail and letting a man with a bomb blow up a plane.

      Whether false positives are a problem depends entirely on how they handle positives. If setting this thing off means you immediately go to jail, get a cavity search, or end up getting shot, then it's most definitely a problem. If on the other hand they have a secondary process to weed out more false positives which isn't overly invasive, then it's probably perfectly alright.

      Airport security doesn't immediately jump on you and do a cavity search if you set off the metal detector, they use a hand held scanner first to determine whether it's just something silly.

      Doing tests like this isn't fundamentally bad, it's not even really all that different than what's going on now. Experienced folks will still pull you up if you look suspicious now, the only major difference is that suspicious at the moment can mean "the wrong colour".

    16. Re:Love the accuracy by alienw · · Score: 1

      What a dumb argument. Airplanes are obviously a much bigger target than trains or buses, given the carnage that a hijacked plane can cause. And while the airline security measures are far from perfect, they are a HELL of a lot better than they used to, and they make it VERY difficult to sneak enough weapons through the checkpoint to hijack a plane. Just because you find something inconvenient doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing it.

      And hey, a lock on your house door is pretty much a waste of resources, too. It can easily be picked, and 99% of the time, nobody is trying to break it. But that doesn't mean it's useless.

    17. Re:Love the accuracy by zappepcs · · Score: 1

      Just a couple of observations:

      How many times have terrorists used planes as weapons before or since 9/11? Anywhere in the world? That's not even addressing the concerns of those that think it was an inside job which would make airport security the biggest joke. ever. period.

      How many houses are broken into daily across the country? Way more than the number of airplanes being hijacked by terrorists!

      Why would an airplane be a much bigger target than a train loaded with chlorine gas or other toxic chemicals while it's moving through Chicago or some other metropolitan area? I don't want to scare anyone, but there are a shit-load of ways to do more damage than flying an airplane into a building.

      18 organized terrorists with good timing and good planning could bring any US metropolitan area to it's knees in about 45 minutes, at which point they would have their choice of targets, both human and infrastructure. It would not take hi-tech gadgets per se' and would be unstoppable once initiated. All that could be done is triage in the wake of the 'disaster' initiated by the terrorists. I do mean ANY US metropolitan area, including Washington D.C.

      The math on your 'waste of resources for a door lock' statement is farcically fallacious. A one time $40 expenditure. This is not the case for TSA/DHS efforts in airports. We spend more money NOT catching terrorists every month than is believable. Upgrading equipment, installing new screening equipment, new checkpoint equipment, check point employees etc. The weakest point in the whole system is TSA itself. More specifically, the more people they need to hire, the more chance there is of an airport or TSA/DHS employee being a terrorist plant, and who could easily bring a bomb into the airport and put it on a plane. There have been incidents of TSA failures that are unbelievable, and make mockery of your opinion of the current airport security systems. I seriously doubt that we are any safer as a country now, than we were before 9/11, and in some ways we are less safe because of misappropriated resources for security.

    18. Re:Love the accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citing the 'founding fathers' of the US in a terrorism thread makes me laugh: they were the terrorists of their day against the then legitimate government of the UK ;-).

    19. Re:Love the accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not really, only occurring 0.00000001% of the time does not garuntee it will occure only on the 1% that you miss. 99% accuracy will ensure you catch 99% of 0.000000001% of the total.

    20. Re:Love the accuracy by StarsAreAlsoFire · · Score: 1

      Uhm. No. Current security measures are worse. Because they are even MORE pointless. NOBODY is going to sit still and let someone hijack a plane ever again. Period.

      So, there's the "Airplane as a weapon" reason right out the window.

      So, what. A bomb on the airplane. If *perfectly* timed, a rather large bomb could be used on takeoff to crash the plane into a populated area. Otherwise, no glory. Couple hundred people die. Bummer. But for the same time and effort *and bomb materials* a terrorist could, say, blow up an airport terminal, in the middle of the security checkpoint line.

      But a bomb that potent would by needs be large - say, an entire laptop case full of C4. If you can stand up and place your shaped charge, you could probably down an airplane with half that, I'm not sure (I know airplane structures well, but explosives only so so). But, you know, other passengers might kinda wonder what you were up to.

      Your analogy almost works. But the deadbolts on my home cost 50 dollars, total. At most. The cost to the individual traveler, for a single round-trip ticket, is more than 50 bucks. That 50 dollars reduces my chance of dying in a plane from, lets say, 50 million to one to the NTSB number of 52.6 million to 1.

      Now, how far would 50 dollars go to improve my chances of survival on the road? NTSB notes a 1 in 6500 chance of dying in a car wreck in a given year.

      A better analogy would be a full home alarm system with video surveillance. Why don't I have one? Because I live in a low-crime area and they are expensive. If they were free I probably STILL wouldn't have one, because my limited experience with them has been filled with false alarms.

      If we solve all the other problems in the world, then we can start spending money on making the safest way to travel even safer. Until then, put the money somewhere it is needed. Like highway safety.

    21. Re:Love the accuracy by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      78% accurate in a controlled setting

      Um. You mean ... they performed a test where they brought a real terrorist intending to blow up a plane in front of the detector? Hell, now I have to RTFA I guess ;-(

    22. Re:Love the accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well it's a good thing they're waiting on your approval to launch this thing, then!

    23. Re:Love the accuracy by alienw · · Score: 1

      I'm not exactly sure why you think that. First, while planes have not been intentionally used as missiles until 9/11, there have been many hijackings. Tighter airport security was always a good idea, 9/11 just made that obvious. Second, if the TSA is now the biggest security threat, that means the screening efforts are working. Sure, it's not perfect, but again, it's a hell of a lot better than it used to be. Before 9/11, I'm sure you could sneak a loaded gun onto an airplane and not get caught 95% of the time. These days, it's pretty hard to even sneak a small knife through.

  9. I feel safer already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... nobody could ever be unaware they're carrying a "disruptive device" (is that like a crackberry?) through a checkpoint?

    What we really need is a machine to identify ahead of time all those fucknozzles who are likely come up with or approve of futile ideas like these.

    1. Re:I feel safer already by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      What we really need is a machine to identify ahead of time all those fucknozzles who are likely come up with or approve of futile ideas like these.

      There is already a mechanism to get rid of such people. It was called the Constitution. Pity you guys broke it by electing Bush twice.

      --
      I hate printers.
    2. Re:I feel safer already by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      So... nobody could ever be unaware they're carrying a "disruptive device" (is that like a crackberry?) through a checkpoint?

      The one time I've flown in Europe recently, I was approached by security staff flying home from Italy. They asked me whether I had left any prohibited containers in my backpack, as something had apparently triggered their scanner. I thought for a second, and then realised that I had left a small bottle of sunscreen tucked in one of the back pockets, along with various other things you'd want to have with you while out for the day.

      I apologised, and in the next few moments I went from embarassment to fear of what they were going to do because I'd inadvertently tried to take something banned onto the plane. But then they said they'd have to remove it because of the liquids ban, and just through it into a huge container (full of mostly unopened bottles: many more suntan containers, drinks, and other harmless things) and let me go through without another look.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  10. As if I weren't different enough by holophrastic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, when I walk into the airport, in December, at minus twenty, in shorts, nad my skin temperature is about ten degrees colder than the average, and my heart rate is about 20 points higher than the average, and I'm not sweating, and there's snow in my boot, I'm going to be intercepted every time -- for being different. Great.

    But really, this time I read the article, and welcome to the same stupid problems for the same stupid solutions. The system is basically a remote polygraph. So you can walk at full speed while it assesses you. So we'll have longer corridors, but the exercise will be nice.

    Of course the tests get to measure people's personal intents. Great. So anwser two questions. . .

          - do you think trained criminals can learn to pass polygraphs? C.E.O.'s don't seem to have much trouble. Frame of mind and all that.

          - so crime will once again shift back to the days of slipping something into someone else's bags. that someone else has no idea that they're carrying a bomb. The criminal may set off the system, but he's got no evidence on him anymore. So what exactly are you going to find? And which plane are you going to check? Even the criminal may not know which random passenger was marked.

    This is why security never learns. Criminals have an arsenal of techniques from thousands of years of history. And those criminals get to pick what they want to use today. And those criminals have a darn good reward for picking the correct one. On the other hand, security personnel, and I include this system's designers, try to solve the current problem, and ofter forget the old problems. The criminals know exactly which systems are presently in place, as well as any routines being used by personnel.

    So once again, we've managed to stop the dumb criminal with nothing to gain, and amused, or worse challenged, the intelligent criminal with lots to gain.

    1. Re:As if I weren't different enough by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      in December, at minus twenty, in shorts,

      Finally! Someone who mirrors my shorts-in-every-season dress style.

    2. Re:As if I weren't different enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're called Minnesotans. Nice to meet you.

    3. Re:As if I weren't different enough by holophrastic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      REALLY? I'm not alone?!

      I just don't understand. I live here. This is my native habitat. Why should I be any more uncomfortable during in expected weather conditions than any other animal?

      So, let me ask you -- because I've never been able to ask anyone before: what's on your list of reasons? I routinely stop traffic within two minutes of shovelling the driveway. I've had couriers pull over and get out just to tell me that I'm crazy. And I've had A&W staff refuse to sell a burger to me because I must be clinically insane.

      My more recent responses to "why are you wearing shorts" include:
            - I find it more convenient to raise my heart-rate than to carry extraneous clothing.
            - I prefer natural methods over artificial ones
            - I can't afford pants (while wearing $125 shorts)
            - "government project"
            - I'm originally from the arctic circle/yukon/canada (this one seems to satisfy just about everybody)
            - why is your wife so ugly? just a genetic trait I guess.
            - millions of years of evolution
            - I have a genetic mutation, my core is thermally regulated (I'm warm-blooded you lizard.)
            - I wouldn't stand so close when calling me crazy for fear that I actually am.
            - I'm better than you. It's not like I could be worse.
            - You can show off your legs, I can show off my legs. My calves are gorgeous. (works for women. substitute legs with clevage as appropriate)
            - The same way you enjoy being hot on a summer beach, I enjoy being cold in the winter snow -- with more oxygen, less polution, and no radiation.

      Have any of your own that I might borrow?

    4. Re:As if I weren't different enough by karmatic · · Score: 1

      Finally! Someone who mirrors my shorts-in-every-season dress style.

      So I'm not alone!

      My legs don't really get cold. I've been perfectly comfortable with snow boots, a heavy coat, and shorts - I'm quite comfortable.

      I don't know why it bothers people so much.

    5. Re:As if I weren't different enough by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      My more recent responses to "why are you wearing shorts" include:

      . . .

      Have any of your own that I might borrow?

      I'm making vitamin D

      I just do what the voices say

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    6. Re:As if I weren't different enough by jefu · · Score: 1

      And while there may be a high reward for the criminals/terrorists, there are only small rewards for the security people for finding the bad guys and small punishments for not finding them.

      As you say, this means that the bad guys learn the effective techniques - and usually quite quickly (the ones that don't are often culled quickly) but the good guys are, by necessity, always trying to catch up, but with only poor feedback as to how effective the catching up actually is.

    7. Re:As if I weren't different enough by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      I like it! And I'll, at least initially, enjoy seeing their frustration as to why vitamin D has anything to do with exposed skin.

    8. Re:As if I weren't different enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, AFAIK at least, your heart rate goes down in the cold. The reason it goes up when you're hot is that, along with the dilation of veins close to the surface of skin, it can pump more blood towards the skin. The blood cools down and is circulated through the rest of your body etc.

      This is totally irrelevant to the point of your argument but I had to mention it (sorry, hopefully at least some of you will understand)

    9. Re:As if I weren't different enough by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1
      • I can't be bothered to buy pants.
      • Women would love to have a metabolism like mine. Keeps me rail-thin, but at the cost of radiating heat faster than sweaters/jackets/coats can let it out.
      • Body hair (or more accurately, extremities hair. On my arms, it begins where the tshirt ends)
      • It's fun to observe people bundled under three layers of thick clothing and shivering.
      • It's a pleasant 43 degrees outside right now.
      • I am indoors most of the time, where extra clothing is even more uncomfortable.
      • I don't have space for clothing I am going to wear for only half a year at the most.
      • There is no such thing as "cold". Just an absence of heat.
      • I found this great technique for keeping yourself warm, called exercise.

      I do have a weakness to wind, which goes right through me (and anything I try wearing to block it, so why bother?)

    10. Re:As if I weren't different enough by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      Nice. I'm stealing the body-hair, the indoors, and the exercise. And I'm changing the clothing space for "My wardrobe has more selection by not having clothing only useful half of the year".

      I agree with the wind. I can produce my own body heat, but at some point the wind takes it away far too quickly. But you're right, it does so from any exposed area, so unless I'm bubbled, there's no use.

      Oh yeah, "you wouldn't be happy in the winter without a space suit".

    11. Re:As if I weren't different enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always been partial to:

      (pre-emptive) How can you walk around in that in this heat?!

      I'm a fire man.

      If it were any warmer I'd be in a speedo.

      (if questioner is female) I'm just hotter than you.

      My name is Johnny Storm. Don't tell anyone I said this, but the Fantastic Four are real!

      Hellspawn don't get cold.

      I'm wear-testing a new line of experimental invisible pants, but we just can't seem to get the formula right.

      I'm a cybernetic organism: living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

    12. Re:As if I weren't different enough by jsiren · · Score: 1

      And I've had A&W staff refuse to sell a burger to me because I must be clinically insane.

      I can understand somebody clinically insane cannot buy weapons, but burgers?

      --
      Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
    13. Re:As if I weren't different enough by querist · · Score: 1

      > Have any of your own that I might borrow?

      (Best said in a slow, monotone voice) "Because my Rice Krispies(tm) told me to wear shorts today."

      If they thought you were crazy before you answer, that should remove just about any doubt.

    14. Re:As if I weren't different enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aldrich Ames had passed at least two polygraphs, while spying for the russians!

  11. false negative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, you get a bomb planted on someone without their knowledge.

  12. Behavior isn't enough by evanbd · · Score: 1

    You do have to actually check for the bomb or other weapon at some point.

    All a terrorist group would have to do would be get the suicide bomber to not know whether or not the backpack contained a bomb *this* time, while knowing that it eventually would. The details of the attack are left to the reader...

  13. Tin Foil Helmet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Foiled Again

  14. 2020 will look futuristic ? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Its 2009, so the future will be futuristic compared to now? Go figure.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:2020 will look futuristic ? by Aranykai · · Score: 2, Funny

      2020 will also be the year of linux on the desktop.

      --
      If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    2. Re:2020 will look futuristic ? by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2, Informative

      2020 will also be the year of linux on the desktop.

      But still no "Duke Nukem Forever"

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    3. Re:2020 will look futuristic ? by hack++slash · · Score: 1

      See sig.

      --
      To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
    4. Re:2020 will look futuristic ? by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

      No, but starting next year instead of saying two-thousand ten, we'll be saying twenty-ten. ONLY THEN it will be the future.

  15. stupid idea by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sounds pretty hokey to me... As a frequent air traveler, give me the old fashioned pat down search with full baggage inspection - in fact I felt safest after 9/11 when they did random searches at the gate too - I have seen more than one person lead away from a gate in handcuffs after a random gate search turned up illegal drugs or other such nonsense. So the fact that they made it through the gate in the first place points out the fallibility of the current process. IMHO we need MORE hands on security not less, more sniffers and x-ray machines - I can easily factor in a longer wait at the airport, the peace of mind is worth it to me...

    1. Re:stupid idea by clarkkent09 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The chances of being on a plane blown up by a terrorist are so minuscule that to willingly submit to a demeaning treatment and long waits in order to have "peace of mind" seems irrational.

      As we saw in India terrorists can just as easily walk into a train station or a hotel and open fire on everyone in sight, so would you like every public place to install metal detectors and strip searches for even more peace of mind? Whatever you do there is some risk involved. I suggest you learn to live with it instead of supporting making everybody life gradually more and more miserable until perfect safety is achieved, which of course will never happen.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    2. Re:stupid idea by evanbd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in fact I felt safest[...]after a random gate search turned up illegal drugs

      What does that have to do with your safety?

    3. Re:stupid idea by mbone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have seen more than one person lead away from a gate in handcuffs after a random gate search turned up illegal drugs or other such nonsense.

      So, what, illegal search and seizure makes you feel safer ?

    4. Re:stupid idea by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      As we saw in India terrorists can just as easily walk into a train station or a hotel and open fire on everyone in sight

      Sounds like the best argument I've ever heard for opposing gun control. Didn't the photographer who caught the only picture of the attackers say that he wished he had a gun instead of a camera?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:stupid idea by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 0, Troll

      It seems to me that the people that bitch the loudest about illegal search and seizure are people who desire to break the law if they wish and don't want to get caught - do you REALLY care if some TSA agent goes through your dirty underwear and socks, I find it satisfying, especially if its been a long trip and the cloths are really smelly...Hell, Ive thought about carrying a really huge dildo in my luggage just for the entertainment value

    6. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't care about illegal drugs. Lets look for actual threats. What has someone on drugs done but bother you? Let us concentrate on real threats.

    7. Re:stupid idea by Mr.+Jaggers · · Score: 1

      So visually observing the use of the patriot act (for combatting terrorism) made you feel safer when used to bust people for other crimes (packing a dope pipe in their bag)?

      Treating an average traveler as an enemy only makes that traveler feel safe if they are deluded into believing that this treatment reduces attack frequency.

      In truth, it's far more likely that the infrequency of hijackings since Sep. 11th is due to some of the very earliest action, i.e., frozen terrorist funding sources during the run-up to the Afghani conflict, and possibly the early bombings on known training camps. Beyond that, TSA's real mandate is to make the public "feel" safer without really addressing the problem, other than the most superficial reduction in makeshift weaponry.

      --

      When I grow up, I want to have Christopher Walken hair.
    8. Re:stupid idea by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that the people that bitch the loudest about illegal search and seizure are people who desire to break the law if they wish and don't want to get caught

      So all we need to do to catch the bad guys is round up all the complainers? It sounds almost too easy . . .

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    9. Re:stupid idea by TheLink · · Score: 1

      There might be other reasons to allow your citizens access to guns, but "killing terrorists" is not it.

      In the Mumbai incident far fewer than a thousand were killed by the terrorists.

      If your country is a relatively safe place, it's rather silly to allow your citizens easy access to guns just in the hope that they could stop some terrorist.

      If your country is an unsafe place, then maybe let the citizens have guns (many will probably get them anyway ;) ), but it is a sign that the Government has failed badly in keeping people safe.

      Would allowing citizens easy access to guns really reduce the number of deaths/injuries a year? I doubt it.

      --
    10. Re:stupid idea by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I suggest you learn to live with it instead of supporting making everybody life gradually more and more miserable until perfect safety is achieved, which of course will never happen.

      Indeed. The local municipality recently replaced a really nice and wide slide in our local park. (I'm lucky enough to live in a place where taxes are devoted to working and maintained public playgrounds.) The reason: It was too wide. So now instead of a cool slide I can slide down together with the kids there's a boring standard slide which is one person at a time only. Cause somehow two persons on a 1,5 meter wide slide at the same time is dangerous? WTF...

      Unfortunately the safety argument seems to work every time, including those when it makes _no sense_.

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    11. Re:stupid idea by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Sounds pretty hokey to me . . . As a frequent air traveler, give me the old fashioned pat down search with full baggage inspection . . . I can easily factor in a longer wait at the airport, the peace of mind is worth it to me...

      Well, I cannot. Therefore, let me propose an alternative: you sedate yourself heavily for "peace of mind", while I just walk on the plane? OK?

      Or does that sound like I'm putting my own personal peace and comfort ahead of that of others?

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    12. Re:stupid idea by Kindaian · · Score: 1

      Perfect security = house curfeu

      Nobody is allowed to leave home. Period.

      Robots will shoot to kill on any human in the streets.

      Security problem solved 100%.

      No more bombing at the government building!

    13. Re:stupid idea by Thiez · · Score: 1

      Sure, great. You hear shooting, 10 random people in random places near the shooting get out their guns and start hunting for the shooter. When you see someone with a gun, the odds are 9 out of 10 that they are not the shooter. Will you take that chance, or will you shoot anyone with a gun? Will they? Will you be fooled when the 'terrorist' points in some direction and shouts 'He went that way!'?

    14. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You DO know that there are some things people would rather keep secret but aren't illegal. Maybe somebody has a particular political lean that isn't popular, or has a hobby that is pretty taboo but isn't illegal. Don't keep constantly giving out this bullshit about "if you got nothing to hide, don't worry about it". The Government shouldn't be subjecting people to this security circus because of something that probably won't happen. Do you think "the terrorists" are going to do the exact same thing as they did on 9/11? Those guys aren't stupid, it will be something different, probably not even on a plane. However, you seem to think that pissing on the 4th amendment is ok because some kid might get away with taking some pot on the plane.

      do you REALLY care if some TSA agent goes through your dirty underwear and socks, I find it satisfying,

      Ahh as usual projecting your own personal feelings on the rest of society. Lets keep this TSA bullshit because YOU find it satisfying! Yes let's enact other useless bullshit measures because Dolphinzilla finds it satisfying.

    15. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds pretty hokey to me... As a frequent air traveler, give me the old fashioned pat down search with full baggage inspection - in fact I felt safest after 9/11 when they did random searches at the gate too -

      What I tell people is that I would be happy if I could pay to fly on a plane with no security except for a locked cockpit door. People think I'm joking but actually I'm serious. You fly with the terrorists and the ninnies, and I'll fly with the drug dealers, bikers, and the old lady who feels safer with a snub nosed 38 in her purse.

      One other point, behind every terrorist group that plants bombs is a state security agency. The key to ending terrorism is to start putting their handlers at the security agencies in jail.

    16. Re:stupid idea by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK - let me re-word this, at any commercial airport there are signs up that clearly say that your bags and person are subject to search - YOU make the decision if you wish to enter the airport premises, it is NOT an illegal search, you consented to it by entering the area. This is not a gray area in any way. I work in a place that has signs up on the gate that state that I am subject to random search of my car, person, laptop bag etc.. I have NO expectation of privacy there - if I bring something prohibited to work (guns, drugs, etc) and I get searched its MY poor judgment in bringing said illegal items on the premises. An airport is exactly the same situation..

    17. Re:stupid idea by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      If your country is a relatively safe place, it's rather silly to allow your citizens easy access to guns just in the hope that they could stop some terrorist.

      See, I look at it from a different vantage point: It's rather silly to tell law-abiding citizens that they can't defend themselves. I wasn't advocating citizens hunting down terrorists -- but I'd rather be hiding in my hotel room with a gun ready to shoot the SOB who kicks the door in with the intent of killing me than hiding in my hotel room with a cell phone praying that the cops find me before the bad guys do.

      Would allowing citizens easy access to guns really reduce the number of deaths/injuries a year? I doubt it.

      Tell that to the people who had no choice other than cowering in their hotel rooms and waiting to be executed.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    18. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You hear shooting, 10 random people in random places near the shooting get out their guns and start hunting for the shooter

      Did I advocate "hunting" for the shooter? I have a carry permit -- if I heard gunfire I wouldn't go "hunting" for the shooter. That's the job of the police.

      What I would do is defend myself and those in my neighboring area. I'd rather be hiding in a hotel room with a gun and the ability to defend myself if the terrorist kicks the door down than hiding in the hotel room with nothing other than a phone.

    19. Re:stupid idea by tmosley · · Score: 1

      He forgot to mention that he is a TSA employee, and that he was talking about the safety of his JOB.

    20. Re:stupid idea by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Sir, I need you to step this way please...

      And here, lets put this stylish black bag over your head.

    21. Re:stupid idea by tmosley · · Score: 1

      So if we post signs out in public, we can just search anyone in the streets anytime we like?

      Man, I better invest in Kinko's stock.

    22. Re:stupid idea by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 1

      Flaimbait ! mods on crack !! - give me a break, someone posts that airports are doing illegal search and seizures which is total BS - I post a factual statement and its flaimbait ?

    23. Re:stupid idea by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 1

      there are public places and there are private places, in a public place such as a street what you describe would be a violation of the constitution - however if it was on private property then by entering the property you would be consenting to search or whatever was stated on the sign

    24. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sad part is that you actually think about that situation as though it was likely to occur. I guess you don't drive anywhere or even walk near a road since you must know that the chances of getting killed are orders of magnitude higher in those situations.

    25. Re:stupid idea by dr80085 · · Score: 1

      Also, any checkpoint will provide a crowd of unsecured people waiting to enter - perfect for a terrorist to attack.

    26. Re:stupid idea by dr2chase · · Score: 1

      Terrorist attacks are extremely rare. Letting rare things determine policy/law is generally not such a good idea.

      Or to put it another way, have you had your flu shot? Do you get 2-3 hours of aerobic exercise each week?

    27. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Letting rare things determine policy/law is generally not such a good idea.

      You don't need to determine anything. It's already spelled out in plain English, in this country anyway.

    28. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      You *do* know that the police have no legal obligation to protect any single person, right?

      You can call them while being attacked, give them your exact location, and they aren't obligated to hurry up and rescue you. A murderer can steal your children and kill them. The cops don't have to do anything but take a report. It's up to *you* to defend yourself, your family, and your property. The cops are only obligated to keep the peace, investigate reports of criminal activities, and arrest folks committing crimes *in* *sight* of an officer of the law. They have an enormous amount of discretion when prioritizing the distribution of their limited manpower.

      Examine the decision of Castle Rock v Gonzales for more information:
      http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=04-278

    29. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with you? Are you trolling?

      Do you wear a seatbelt while driving? Why? The odds of you needing it are vanishingly slim! I suppose that you also don't walk anywhere near roads or carry any money or other valuables with you while you go outside.

    30. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Unless you evade the robots!

    31. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Let's say that I'm driving my car down a US highway. Inside a small, opaque, zippered bag is an old bottle of Xanax that was prescribed to my friend. My friend gave it to me of his own free will. That bag is contained within a large duffel bag full of dirty clothes, electronics, and other bags that contain cables and chargers and the like. The duffel bag is closed and is in the back seat of my car. I come up on a sobriety checkpoint. (This is where the cops stop all cars on the road and look at the drivers to determine if they're drunk.) One of the officers at the checkpoint looks at me, determines that I'm not drunk, then asks me to pull to the side of the road and get out of my car. I comply. The officer requests to search my vehicle. I refuse. He conducts a thorough search of my vehicle anyway. He finds the bottle of Xanax, hauls me off to jail, and informs the DEA.

      Was this officer in the wrong? Did his search of my car overstep the bounds of the search permitted by the State? Is the bottle of Xanax admissible in future trials against me?

    32. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      I work in a place that has signs up on the gate that state that I am subject to random search of my car, person, laptop bag etc..

      Unless you are speaking about a secure facility that does work for the DoD or other similar agency, you *still* have the right to refuse to be searched. If you refuse the search (and the searcher has no reason to suspect that you are a thief or are jeopardizing the safety of the employees) then he may *not* search you. You probably could be fired for refusing the search, but that's about it.

    33. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      *nods* All it would take is some explosives with screws embedded in it.

      The "terrorists" are gone. Their work here is done. They don't need to expend any more of their men, they already have the desired effect. :/

    34. Re:stupid idea by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I'd rather be able to walk in public areas _every_day_ knowing that the very same people who can barely control their cars, don't have easy access to guns.

      Better that, than to have access to guns just on the chance that one day I'd be caught in a hotel room with people outside about to kill me.

      From my point of view, I'm more at risk from members of the public than from terrorists. If I can easily get a gun, it means they can easily get one too. Giving them guns would reduce my chances of survival far more. No thanks.

      As for protection against criminals. People get robbed in my area quite often (it's hard to legally own a gun here). Yes it sucks, but so far most of the time they don't kill you - they don't have to. If more people had guns, the robbers would just start shooting first (already some robbers are doing the "slash them first" method). Then everyone would have to be on "super alert" mode all the time - so that the robbers don't shoot them first. You may think that's a great state to be in, but it's likely to be bad for most people's hearts.

      Having to live "Hollywood Cowboy Style" is not my idea of progress and civilization. Might as well be living amongst wild dangerous animals in Africa.

      If you think everyone should have guns, then by similar reasoning, every country should have nukes - so they can defend themselves against rogue nations that attack others without approval from the UN.

      --
    35. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah I'd like to point out my being drugged on the plane contributes greatly to your safety. Trust me on this one.

    36. Re:stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... it just drives the price up for the rest of us. Damn boy scouts!

    37. Re:stupid idea by pipoca · · Score: 1

      Would allowing citizens easy access to guns really reduce the number of deaths/injuries a year? I doubt it.

      Tell that to the people who had no choice other than cowering in their hotel rooms and waiting to be executed.

      Easy access to guns decreases deaths from some things (e.g. the terrorists probably wouldn;t have killed as many), and increases deaths from other things (e.g. crimes of passion - bar fights that escalate too much, or arguments that get out of hand, and most importantly suicides - suicides done with a gun are the minority of suicides but the majority of successful ones, IIRC).

      It would be interesting to see which way the total number of deaths go with increased/decresed access to guns. Does the number of suicidal people who would choose to eat their gun outweigh the number of violent criminals who would be stopped sooner or be more cautious if their victims could more easily kill them? And which would you rather have an increased number of?

    38. Re:stupid idea by dr2chase · · Score: 1

      I can't have a personal nuke, so I don't think the English is as plain as you claim. It appears that there's a line drawn between the arms that I can and cannot have, and the location of that line seems to be the tricky part.

    39. Re:stupid idea by dr2chase · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid I'm not following your "logic".

      Murders are in the 30K/yr range; auto deaths are more nearly 40k/year, flu is closer to 90k, and diseases of the smoking and/or unfit are in the hundreds of thousands per year. Guns carry their own substantial risks (when compared to the murder rate) of use in suicide.

      So I just don't see where you're going with this. If the police did a perfect job (compared to how well they do now -- and "perfect" = preventing murders from even occurring), they'd reduce the general risk of death only 1/3rd as much as comprehensive flu immunization. Whoopee. The risk of death from unfitness is huge and underappreciated -- if you include heart disease, stroke, and diabetes in your "dangers", a BICYCLE is 10x safer (for the operator -- this "safety" ignores the anyone the bike/car might hit) than the average car, unprotected crashes and all.

      And terrorists? Feh. Total lightweights, compared to the flu virus and tobacco companies.

      I'm really, really tired of "ooh-scary" logic. When in doubt, check the body count.

    40. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I misunderstood. Were you speaking out against permitting civilians to carry handguns and rifles? If you weren't, then your comments are a little bunny-trail of a derail. If you were, please read on.

      The way I read it, Shakrai was claiming that we're better off being able to defend *ourselves* than if we're left defenseless.

      It's rather silly to tell law-abiding citizens that they can't defend themselves.

      I agree with him. Unarmed folks -especially in rural areas- are -statistically speaking- at the mercy of an armed criminal who wishes to do them harm. There's a phrase that I'm pretty fond of. "When an armed thug is at your door, the police are only minutes away."

    41. Re:stupid idea by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      And if you *are* advocating an unarmed populace, let's check the body count. :D
      Gun death vs. traffic death straight from the CDC:

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021887&cid=25681405

  16. Horse Shit by DynaSoar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The FAST system detects physiological signs of stress. In testing it detected "hostile intent" in volunteers. The obvious question is how can volunteers have valid hostile intent? You can't test deception with fake deception. The generalizability of physiological response to stressors is a basic tenet of physiological psychology (the folks who brought you FAST's grand dad, the polygraph).

    The volunteers knew they were volunteers in a study and in no danger. In practice, this device will trigger on every person who is nervous about flying, because the physiological markers for stress are the same regardless of the reason. There will be many, many more of those than with 'hostile intent'. The test study was unable to have adequate control (real, naive persons) to prove its claim.

    Most people can learn simple biofeedback techniques to control physiological reactions to some degree. Those with hostile intent don't need to get very good at it, they just need to be able to control it better than an untrained person with a fear of flying.

    FAST isn't supposed to work. Its owners know it can't. It's just supposed to be believable enough to convince the public that it could catch bad guys to increase public confidence, and to convince the government that further funding is warranted.

    Stick the designers in it and ask them if it can tell hostile intent from fear of flying (and base GAO investigation of the program upon the result, to make it more salient). They'll say yes. Either it'll trigger and show them to be lying, or it won't and so it doesn't work.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:Horse Shit by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Stick the designers in it and ask them if it can tell hostile intent from fear of flying (and base GAO investigation of the program upon the result, to make it more salient). They'll say yes. Either it'll trigger and show them to be lying, or it won't and so it doesn't work.

      That might end up being the most valid and useful test of all. I like it.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Horse Shit by dcollins · · Score: 1

      I agree. It's very much like the Halting Problem proof.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    3. Re:Horse Shit by Mr.+Jaggers · · Score: 1

      Further, what if a passenger wants to kill someone? As in, their express intent is to hop an airplane, fly to a location and kill someone on the ground?

      Certainly we'd like the local legal system, in the state they fly to, to prevent that crime. But is it a crime to fly with murderous intent?

      Worse, does doing so immediately make one a terrorist who, presumably, has then given up the "privilege" to request habeas corpus, amongst all the other suspended constitutional "privileges"?

      --

      When I grow up, I want to have Christopher Walken hair.
    4. Re:Horse Shit by mdmkolbe · · Score: 0

      Except that at least as phrased it is an invalid proof. I.e. it is circular on the assumption that it doesn't actually work, where as the Halting Problem proof is not circular; it is proof by contradiction.

    5. Re:Horse Shit by Kindaian · · Score: 1

      They will answer: "i don't know"

      Because the company has forbidden them to investigate that (if they have any hope to do a business).

    6. Re:Horse Shit by Adam+Jenkins · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes apparently the project used to be called Project Hostile Intent, but was re-branded as FAST.
      See http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2008/09/precrime-detector-is-showing-p.html

    7. Re:Horse Shit by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Except that at least as phrased it is an invalid proof. I.e. it is circular on the assumption that it doesn't actually work, where as the Halting Problem proof is not circular; it is proof by contradiction.

      Yes, but on the other hand, what the people who are promoting this high-tech clone of the polygraph are doing isn't particularly valid either.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  17. 80% of deception "detected" by mjtrac95570 · · Score: 0
    In the article, a Homeland Security spokesmodel says "We are running at about 78% accuracy on mal-intent detection, and 80% on deception."

    I'd be very curious to see their testing protocol. Is it like the War Department, which straps big bullseyes on simulated enemy missiles and then straps them to the backs of giant turtles, so that they can claim a great interception rate?

  18. it does not detect intent by aepervius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Firstly, they don't say the false positive rate , they only say the true positive rate. By now many poster here will have picked that up. Even at 1% false positive , pass 10000 person thru the check point, 100 false positive, yada yada law of great number etc...

    Secondly It only does detect external signs of nervousness at best and nothing else. Such sign of nervousness MIGHT be displayed by people with malevolent intent, but certainly not only by them. Consider where such detector might be implanted : courtroom, IRS, FBI buildings, airports before boarding. A lot of place where people WILL be more often than not nervous. And what will happens ? Terrorist or any other mal intended smart persons will get an additional training : 1) meditate to lower all sign of nervousness 2) take a nyquil or whatever calm you down.

    Thirdly, as the various western governments seem to go toward more and more security of that type, TV camera, drone and whatnot, I have long stopped fearing terrorist (and I barely missed getting in a bomb blast in Paris metro by a few dozen minutes...). Nowadays I fear the police and the governement and their big-brotherisation more than not. I fear that the time for the third box (the munition one) will come way sooner than I ever expected in my dystopian nightmare.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:it does not detect intent by ortholattice · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Moreover, is there evidence that potential terrorists (on a suicide mission in particular) even exhibit nervousness? Could it be that an Islamic martyr on a suicide mission, who truly believed in the cause and the religious brainwashing, might actually be overcome with a sense of great peace and calm, believing that he'd soon be rewarded in paradise with 72 adoring virgins at his beck and call? I mean once you're at that point, your brain just isn't working normally. Did the 9/11 hijackers exhibit any of the signs of stress or anxiety that this system is supposed to detect?

    2. Re:it does not detect intent by Eskarel · · Score: 1
      Well, even presuming that any individual can believe so absolutely as to not have any fears or doubts when he or she is about to die, how often have you seen anyone at an airport who was that absolutely serene.

      Testing for people boaring a plane who are absolutely happy, calm, and confident would probably have far fewer false positives than testing for people who are stressed, angry, or generally unhappy. Flying isn't exactly a wild party for anyone. Most folks who have never done it are at least a little nervous, and most folks who have done it a lot know how much of a PITA it is, and aren't particularly thrilled either.

    3. Re:it does not detect intent by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      Add to that the possibility of taking some drugs (prescription, alcohol, whatever) to reduce anxiety and thus affect the readings such that they pass.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
  19. Looking for Malcontents? by gznork26 · · Score: 1

    So they'll be able to set up covert checkpoints that people walk past without knowing they're being assessed, and they're looking for 'malcontents'? In other words, this is a system for picking out people who are not thrilled with whatever the current government (or junta) is doing, so they can be charged and locked up in those shiny new detention centers that Cheney's company Halliburton have built in the US. That's an easy way to cut down on the possibility of protests in general, and of 'undesirables' at any sort of public or private gathering. Private companies will want to install them in their facilities to monitor employees. This sort of thing has no redeeming social value.

    ---
    I write pointed political short stories at klurgsheld.wordpress.com

  20. Didn't they read God Emperor of Dune? by savi · · Score: 1

    This will just cause the evolution of undetectable people who will then topple the Empire.

  21. Surely this is similar to... by Skiron · · Score: 1

    ... Arnie in 'Total Recall'?

  22. Civil disobedience mobs by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    100's of freedom fighters bum rushing the airpor,t all acting like undesirables.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  23. creators' newclear kode KNOWS what we'll do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    &, is very useful in helping us do the same (knowing what we're doing, & why).

  24. Agreed, it seems pointless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...as a replacement for existing security stations, at least, but if it was an extra layer of security then I suppose it might actually be somewhat useful.

    I'd imagine this would prove somewhat useful after people have gone through security, perhaps when walking to their gate, the automated system can have one quick check to see if anyone's acting suspicious (really, that's all this is, an automated "suspect" detector, something veteran police already do anyway) so they can have one more quick pat down before they get on the plane. So what if it's only 70% accurate, if we assume that the security gates are 90% effective at not letting "terrorists" through, then that's going to potentially catch about 7% of the remaining 10% that do get through.

    Still, I think it'd be better to just train a few people to keep an eye out via CCTV and whatnot. Probably a lot cheaper, too.

  25. No gait analysis? by Have+Blue · · Score: 2, Funny

    And here I was thinking we finally had a reason to properly fund the Ministry of Silly Walks.

  26. .. on Thursday Januaray 01, @01:27PM by highfreq2 · · Score: 1

    "Security Checkpoints Predict What You Will Do on Thursday January 01, @01:27PM"
    Damn it's already passed. Oh well, "eating lunch" wouldn't have been a revelation.

    1. Re:.. on Thursday Januaray 01, @01:27PM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not for you, you of course were there. But for the rest of us it was important information. ;)

  27. By 2020 ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... security checkpoints wil look like the compound gate in Mad Max.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  28. right... by owlnation · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So basically what this article is really saying is, that by 2020 the West's gradual transition to total fascism will be near completion.

    1. Re:right... by mrsquid0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And anyone who objects will be called unpatriotic.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    2. Re:right... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      So basically what this article is really saying is, that by 2020 the West's gradual transition to total fascism will be near completion.

      I have a better idea. Let's give up our "empire", withdraw from the World and adopt the Swiss stance of armed neutrality. Back it up with our nuclear deterrent.

      Nobody is going to invade us -- nuclear weapons combined with a ridiculous amount of firearms should be a sufficient deterrent. Terrorists will lose their motivation for attacking us when we stop interfering in their countries. Let's see how long the despots in the Middle East can cling to power when they can't blame the United States for everything that's wrong in their countries.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a better idea. Let's give up our "empire", withdraw from the World and adopt the Swiss stance of armed neutrality. Back it up with our nuclear deterrent.

      Right after we figure out how not to depend on any imports, sure.

    4. Re:right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you're just unpatriotic if you don't like paying taxes.

    5. Re:right... by Spatial · · Score: 1

      Patriotic being accepted to mean "blind obedience and support of government" seems like a pretty big problem too.

    6. Re:right... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have a better idea. Let's give up our "empire", withdraw from the World and adopt the Swiss stance of armed neutrality. Back it up with our nuclear deterrent.

      Right after we figure out how not to depend on any imports, sure.

      I was thinking the same thing for the longest time. But I visited Switzerland recently, and I was surprised to find that despite their neutrality and non-belligerent foreign policy, they were still able buy and sell goods and services from and to other nations. So despite conventional wisdom, it may be possible for the US, too.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    7. Re:right... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Thank you. I wasn't advocating isolationism. There's no reason why we couldn't trade with the rest of the world but maintain a non-interventionist foreign policy.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, go on telling that to the uneducated masses of politicians who don't believe you can trade with people before bombing them to the stone age first. When they learn that there can be such a thing as free trade perhaps then something will change.

    9. Re:right... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And anyone who objects will be called unpatriotic.

      Or a supporter of "Islamo-fascism"...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  29. In 2020... by Kindaian · · Score: 1

    There will be robots around all over doing chores... and they are impervious to all checkpoints!

    On the other hand, for mere humans, there will be makeup that makes the sensors moth...

  30. my hope is the morally bankrupt governments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    will become financially bankrupt well before they choke their peoples rights even more. Happy New Year!

  31. As if you were actually different by SuperKendall · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    So, when I walk into the airport, in December, at minus twenty, in shorts, nad my skin temperature is about ten degrees colder than the average, and my heart rate is about 20 points higher than the average, and I'm not sweating, and there's snow in my boot, I'm going to be intercepted every time -- for being different. Great.

    Get over yourself. You aren't that different. You certainly aren't different enough from any other human to register with a system looking for subliminal actions and behaviors.

    You think you are the ONLY ONE that dresses down for a trip from a cold place to a warm one? Once again - get over yourself.

    do you think trained criminals can learn to pass polygraphs?

    Possibly but these are not polygraphs we are talking about, but very subliminal actions you cannot block.

    so crime will once again shift back to the days of slipping something into someone else's bags.

    (a) You can't put a bomb into anyones bag that can drive a plane into a building.

    (b) I dare you to even try approaching another persons bag in an airport. People are paranoid about their luggage, and if anything it would be far harder to do this than to get something through security today!

    This is why security never learns. Criminals have an arsenal of techniques from thousands of years of history.

    And this is why people like you never learn. Because throughout history, a policy of defense in depth has shown to be mostly effective while a policy of zero security has shown to end in disaster.

    You like to throw water on this plan, fine - what is your plan? Strip search everyone? Perhaps arrest anyone dressing funny? Why is behavioral analysis not the preferred method of detecting potential problems when it's the least prone to unfair (and dangerous) profiling?

    So once again, we've managed to stop the dumb criminal with nothing to gain

    Considering that's 90% of them - sounds good to me.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:As if you were actually different by Ian+Alexander · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (a) You can't put a bomb into anyones bag that can drive a plane into a building.

      (b) I dare you to even try approaching another persons bag in an airport. People are paranoid about their luggage, and if anything it would be far harder to do this than to get something through security today!

      Who says a terrorist has to want to fly a plane into a building? I imagine you could spread terror pretty effectively if you started salting baggages with bombs...

    2. Re:As if you were actually different by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "Get over yourself. You aren't that different"

      Uh but that's the big problem. If he was the only false positive then it works.

      Lastly, it's pretty easy to put a bomb on a plane. I can think of plenty of ways.

      For example: the plane doesn't have to a be a conventional airliner to cause big problems.

      As for the other ways, go figure them out yourself if you're a terrorist.

      --
    3. Re:As if you were actually different by holophrastic · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I'll take yours one at a time, to show that you're the idiot. And then I won't respond to your next post.

      I am that different. I don't dress down, I'm always dressed down -- not going ot a warmer climate you clod, going to any climate. I wear shorts in the snow. (that's a period back there). I know I'm that different because within a ten minute period, I'm currently stopped at least three times by random strangers wondering from where I've escaped. I stop traffic when shovelling the driveway, and people say the most inane things. When it comes to these remote polygraphs, my skin temperature -- excuse me, galvanic skin response -- will be wildly different.

      Polygraphs measure subliminal actions that you cannot block. It's not about blocking them. It's about their not being there. You have to be thinking about your lie in order to appear to be lying. Having told a lie to your wife yesterday doesn't make everything you say forever get caught as a lie. Similarly, believing something is true doesn't trigger the sensor. I can say that 13 * 13 = 168. It's not a lie if I can't do basic math. Sesame Street stops at 12. Sales personnel are very well trained at selling a product on its features, whether or not those features are true. Welcome to method acting, organized debates, politicians, and con artists.

      Slip something into someone's bag you say? No problem. Remember the old question "has anyone handled your bags for you?" Yes. The taxi driver loaded them into and out of his trunk. With his two hands. Think it would be difficult for him to slip something from his hands into the bag that he's holding while you are already in the taxi, not watching him, because that's his job, and it's cold outside? Oh, and you're an 82 year old woman in a wheel chair and your bag is 50 pounds.

      You're simply the ignorant one here. You think you're secure. I've been on flights all around north america in the last few years -- new york three times. Onto every one of them I've brought a two-inch blade. And get this, this'll really bother you. Not only did the blade go right through the metal detector, and being steel must have shown up, the persons watching never noticed; better than that, I did it by accident each and every time, because I wasn't thinking that I've got a utility blade on my key-ring when I was too busy taking off my shoes!

      No one's saying that zero security is better than some security for preventing security threats. You're an idiot if you think that anyone proposes no defense as a solution to someone else's offense. We're talking about something so much bigger.

      We're talking about defending against something dangerous that simply doesn't happen. We're talking about security that compromises freedoms. We're talking about security to prevent reasonable and acceptable risks.

      The shoes thing is a great example of the first. They check shoes because you may have a bomb in your shoes. They do that because once someone was caught with a bomb in their shoes. So basically, no one has ever set off a bomb in their shoes. The old system seemed to work just fine. But now, now there is a whole pain in the ass to avoid something that never happens. It's not that bombs in shoes aren't dangerous, it's that eagles having heart-attacks mid-flight and falling through your sunroof killing you on your way to work is also very dangerous, it simply doesn't happen with any degree of frequently that it's worth the expense of caring.

      Freedoms are also something that you people used to value. Apparently you've forgotten the difference between "papers please" and "photo id please" -- nothing. Your own car can now tattle on you in terms of speeds you were travelling, gps locations, and everything else. Good luck justifying why you were speeding seven months ago. Hard evidence says you were speeding. You don't remember why. Oh yeah, your daughter is seven months old, by the way. So, in your opinion, what's the difference between being strip-searched, interrogated, and

    4. Re:As if you were actually different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With airport security these days, a terrorist would cause more terror putting bomb residue into baggage than real bombs.

    5. Re:As if you were actually different by Reziac · · Score: 1

      You cannot possibly be any weirder than the guy we used to see around in Billings, Montana... in winter, wearing only a kilt and boots, even in -30F weather. And whistling the most beautiful tunes as he roller-skated through the downtown alleys during the lunch hour.

      Word around was he was some big muckity businessman, and this was how he relaxed.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    6. Re:As if you were actually different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (a) You can't put a bomb into anyones bag that can drive a plane into a building.

      (b) I dare you to even try approaching another persons bag in an airport. People are paranoid about their luggage, and if anything it would be far harder to do this than to get something through security today!

      Who says a terrorist has to want to fly a plane into a building? I imagine you could spread terror pretty effectively if you started salting baggages with bombs...

      Or by installing Fascist security checkpoints with color-coded "Terror Alerts", and constantly tell people to be afraid, very afraid, because the Terrorists are coming to get you.

      The point of 9/11 was not just to blow stuff up, it was to scare people & get us to spend huge piles of cash on "security", and throw away all the freedoms which we love & they hated.

      So far they've done a pretty damn good job. Or rather, we've done a pretty good job for them. They don't NEED to hijack planes at this point, their work is done.

      Yes, we needed to "beef up" security, but quite frankly if you can't keep weapons & drugs out of a maximum security prison, how do you plan on keeping them off an airplane?

    7. Re:As if you were actually different by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying the current security theatre is effective, or a good idea, but actually there's a rather big difference between being strip searched and having a remote polygraph or a infrared camera, and it has everything to do with your awareness of the incident.

      Being strip searched is demeaning, embarassing, and generally fairly traumatic for most of the people who have to undergo it. Cavity searches are worse. They single an individual out and make them feel a certain way.

      The awareness of what is going on is what makes it a terrible experience, as well as the way it is carried out, not the actual result.

      There's also a very big difference between "papers please" and "photo id please" at least at the moment. Despite all the general libertarian quoting, the systems are very different. The USSR required papers to travel anywhere, by any means, they were more than identification they were also permits to travel. They issued said papers to almost no one(because they didn't want people travelling).

      The US on the other hand, despite all its failings, does not require permits to travel within the country(only identification and even then only for certain forms of travel such as driving a car or flying on a plane), and does not use the issuance(or lack thereof) of this identification to control population movement.

      The US government is taking away the people's freedoms, some of this loss of freedom is indeed extremely worrying, but having to identify yourself and submit to some reasonable inspection to board an aircraft is far from the most worrying example.

      Free speech zones, illegal wiretapping, or as a more applicable example no-fly lists are all much more worrying and much more unreasonable.

      The world is a big place, and the vast majority of modern prosperity is a direct result of cooperation between individuals on a large scale. Cooperation between individuals sometimes requires compromise, sometimes compromise you don't like. It's important to recognize the difference between necessary compromise and true loss of freedoms. The days where you could ride off into the sunset and create a brand new identity are long over, but their passing has come along with a large number of very important benefits.

    8. Re:As if you were actually different by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      I agree with everything that you've said, and none of what it means. I ask you to do one favour. Look at the present world, and write down what limit to those freedoms, or what enforcement would indeed be too much. Figure out what you think is the end of what you call reasonable. Write it down. Keep it somewhere safe.

      My point is that the concept of what acceptable and reasonable to compromise or sacrifice is a poor game because it allows gradual change with no limit. There's always a reason to spend one dollar on something that's worth two dollars. But if I asked you to spend one million dollars on something worth two million, you'd say that you don't have the one million to spend.

      That's how companies like mobile telephone, cable television, and satelite radio work. You could have radio fo free. But if you spend only $30 per month, you can get so much more radio. And $30 is definitely reasonable, so you do it. And you can have ten television channels, or you can have 30 for $30, or you can have 100 channels for $50, or you can have 500 channels for $100 per month. You can also upsize your popcorn, have unlimited text messages, and voice mail.

      Each one is perfectly legitimate value, and worth every penny. But with the items above, each perfectly nice, you're already spending in excess of $150 per month on entertainment.

      So where does it end?

      You've made your list, you've checked it twice. Now consider what kind of things would be on the list for someone living in 1908. Or in 1983. I'll bet that "take off your shoes, your belt, and put everything you have in this tray, we'll look at all of your stuff" is probably on that list. I'll bet "if this machine beeps, because it's set for false positives over false negatives, we'll rub this wand all over your body" is likely another. Oh, and we may take your laptop and look at your business data too. Oh yeah, we'll have you stand in line for two hours. Then we'll interrogate you at customs. Oh, and you'll be standing for the whole of those two hours. And your plane will be delayed intentionally.

      Again, each one of those is perfectly justified. But when you add them all up, and take them all together, you're approached by a system that is simply over-burdening.

      So what's on your list? Let's get it documented here. And then we'll check on it in ten years.

    9. Re:As if you were actually different by Eskarel · · Score: 1
      Things change, sometimes because society changes, sometimes because technology changes, sometimes for the very same slippery slope argument you've raised.

      In 1908 they didn't have planes, they didn't have the television, they didn't have the internet. In 1908 well over half the population didn't have the right to vote(women, and most southern African Americans). In 1908 the Model T had just been invented. A few decades later they interned the majority of the Japanese American population in camps.

      Things change, some for the better, some for the worse. I think you'd be surprised to find that historically Americans have been even less concered with civil liberties than they are now, the 1908 list might be a lot less stringent than mine. Certainly the folks in the 50's were willing to charge people for thought crime, and John Adams(one of the founding fathers) signed the Alien and Sedition acts(which make the Patriot act pretty tame) in 1798.

      Every time you put someone elses rights over your own you are compromising, but that compromise is the root of civilization.

      This technology can be used badly, it could be used to harass innocent people, it could be totally ineffective, but it's not anything new. If you look particularly dodgy now, any reasonably competent airport security(which I'll admit there isn't very much of) will tag you for further questioning, which is all the machine is doing. The big difference is that the machine, if it works at all, should at least be filtering you on reasonable criteria as opposed to the random prejudices of the security guards.

  32. Gadget security by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    Gadget security, no matter how good the gadget, is ever going to provide security. The false positives will be worse than Vista UAC and pretty soon people will start ignoring them or turning the sensitivity down to the point it's nearly useless.

    Anything that's uses behavior can be fooled. Even lie detectors can be spoofed with training.

    Once again Homeland Insecurity spending billions to provide the most sophisticated false sense of security money can buy.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Gadget security by freesword · · Score: 2, Funny

      Gadget security, no matter how good the gadget, is ever going to provide security.

      Go Go Gadget Terrorist Detector!

  33. how about solving the real problem instead? by theblondebrunette · · Score: 1

    How about working towards the reason someone would try to bomb a plane?
    Or, make non-bombable planes.. Hammering at only one side of the problem doesn't lead to the best solutions.

    1. Re:how about solving the real problem instead? by Dallas+Caley · · Score: 1

      great idea, but easier said than done though

      Sure i agree the U.S. (and the "western" world) has not been very nice in the past and we've given a lot of people reasons to bomb us, but even if we could all of a sudden start being really great people, you would still not be able to stop every single crazy person from wanting to bomb a plane.

      And regarding a non-bombable plane, unfortunately i think a non-bombable plane would also be a non-flyable plane. And if i remember correct the terrorists on 9/11 didn't have any bombs (or at least thats what i've been told)

  34. Minority Report? WTF? by Kuroji · · Score: 1

    Is it me or do all the 'in 5-10 years' tech stories lately say that everything is going to look like Minority Report? Did this suddenly become the only sci-fi movie that might represent what things are going to look like a decade from now? Nevermind that it's probably going to look almost the same as it does these days unless Obama decides to tear down and rebuild every city in the nation.

  35. Guess I won't be flying again with good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Been there done that. I had my car stolen years ago. The police put me through hell getting it back so I was a little uneasy with police. About a week later I pulled up to a light and saw a cop facing me coming the other way. I looked away nervously because of what they had just put me through a week earlier. Well he turned around and followed me right up to where I was working. He tells me not to move handcuffs me and sticks me in the back of his car. It took me 20 minutes to get him to admit why he handcuffed me. Turns out the license plate was reported as stolen. When I bought the car it was missing the front license plate so when it was recovered they wrote it up as stolen without telling me. I explained it never had a front plate but he wasn't impressed. After another 10 minutes I convinced him to check the registration and sure enough it was registered to me. He never did get a call back I so asked if he could remove it from the stolen list when he finally let me go? He said no I'd have to replace the plates and there was nothing stopping me from being re-arrested on my way to the DMV. Just to spike the ball my employer saw me handcuffed and gave me a grilling about it. Needless to say I avoid the police, the cop was a real dick about it, and anytime I see one I stare them straight in the eye and smile.

    Using blinking and tense responses as a means of screening means that people that are having a bad day get a friendly strip search just to brighten it up. At some point you have to say just fuck it and stay home. I know it makes their jobs easier harassing us and invading our privacy but in the end I'd rather not fly and I sure as hell don't want to hear the airlines whining about falling numbers of bookings when we are treated like animals. They can bite me.

  36. Sooper Checkpointz by rhizome · · Score: 1

    No more waving a wand to get through checkpoints -- the new checkpoint can detect if you have plans to set off a bomb before you even enter the building."

    Let me (apparently) be the first to treat this claim with skepticism. Oh, anonymous submitters and their mysterious technologies that come out of the blue on a New Year's Day. I think there should at least be some disclosure that the author has a vested interest in people thinking that this is possible, but the practical effect is just going to be a technologizing of the "Idiot Security Guard" model they have going at the moment. What difference does it make if you are hassled for no reason because a computer randomly selected your boarding pass or if some slug of an official thinks your laptop bag is just a little too lame. You're still being hassled randomly.

    The truth is that all of the DHS procedures produce only false positives. Why not economize and pay only union wages for this service rather than jillions for an overblown /dev/random?

    --
    When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
  37. The Big Picture Problem. by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We all seem to have figured out that this system is a joke, so I won't address that.

    The bigger problem is that the DHS really thinks something like this kind of system will work. We've seen several different screening systems, fingerprinting systems, etc, and they all share the same "whiz-bang technology" attribute. That is that somewhere, there's some great piece of hardware, software, or black box that's going to save us from "the terrorists" Real Soon Now. I guess I'm more than a little skeptical of this approach to the problem.

    I don't know enough about the problem to know what the solution is (maybe just human operatives). But I do know enough about "whiz-bang" technology to know that it's snake oil.

    --
    AccountKiller
    1. Re:The Big Picture Problem. by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 1

      The people approving this system are the same people that think there is lack of evidence for evolution and that carbon dating is junk science so we should just turn to a book that says eating shellfish is sinful and that rain comes from the sphere of water around the earth. Does it surprise you that this misinformed group of morons gets the science dead wrong again and is buying snake oil?

    2. Re:The Big Picture Problem. by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Unless you're claiming that Jacqui Smith (Home Secretary of the UK) is secretly from the south of the USA, I think you're going to have to provide a bit more evidence that Bush's beliefs are relevant. IMO it's actually a lot simpler: politicians want there to be a solution and so when someone says to them, "We can sell you a solution," they believe that it's genuine. The pressure of feeling a nation's eyes on you and of an opposition ready to accuse you of neglecting to care for the populus somehow buries the knowledge that salemen lie.

    3. Re:The Big Picture Problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DHS knows this won't work. Their job is to sell to the public the illusion of security. After 9/11, more people died in car crashes because they were afraid to fly than died in the WTC towers. People worry about the wrong things, and the DHS can't change that. All they can do is make people feel better about living in a risky world.

    4. Re:The Big Picture Problem. by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      I don't know enough about the problem to know what the solution is

      The politically unsavory reality is that in a reasonably free society, terrorism cannot be entirely eliminated. It becomes a question of how much risk, versus how much is paid in money and liberty.

      Sadly, governments around the world seem to be happy to use terrorism as a tool to reduce freedom, and thus encourage scare-mongering.

      If they instead reassured you that the chances of being caught in a terrorist incident were 10 times less than dying of septicemia (in 2001, much less in most other years), which no-one worries about, then everyone could probably go about their lives much happier, and government money could be spent more productively. Like, perhaps in investigating and reducing the causes of terrorism?

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    5. Re:The Big Picture Problem. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The politically unsavory reality is that in a reasonably free society, terrorism cannot be entirely eliminated

      Highly oppressive socieites can't do it either. France learned that lesson in Algeria when they used the tactic of execution without trial of supected terrorists and managed to wipe out all terrorist groups three or four times over and still found that more and more people were opposing them. People that believed in justice and the rule of law started to oppose them violently instead of just anarchists and extremists.

    6. Re:The Big Picture Problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct - there is no whiz bang technology to solve this problem - the only solution is questioning by very well trained human operatives - as anyone who has flown to Israel will know. The Israeli's rely on one thing only - well trained people. They question everyone and rely on their training to detect the people wil "mal-intent". That way, they'll detect not only all the existing methods, but any new modus apporandi the terrorists come up with.

  38. White nerds rejoice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank god for being an absurdly white nerdy looking guy with no fashion sense whatsoever, that is built like a ballerina.

    I never realized how handy that is up until the security craze started.

  39. Spare me the hyperbole by JonTurner · · Score: 1

    Then you'll be questioned and/or searched, deemed to not be a threat and sent on your way. And I suppose you'll learn to go wee before the flight.

    >>Suppose I have to go to the bathroom and look nervous like I won't make it time?

    1. Re:Spare me the hyperbole by LandruBek · · Score: 1

      Then you'll be questioned and/or searched, deemed to not be a threat and sent on your way.

      That's exactly the problem.

      --
      $META_SIG_JOKE
    2. Re:Spare me the hyperbole by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I take it you've never been the guy they stopped by mistake. Being questioned and searched under such circumstances is not a trivial experience. It can be deeply unpleasant, and for some people it can leave mental scars that take a very long time to heal.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:Spare me the hyperbole by JonTurner · · Score: 1

      Then I would suggest this hypothetical person is too emotionally fragile and delicate to live! If the psychological "trauma" of being asked some questions about where you're going, what you've packed, how long you plan to stay, chit-chat about the destination, the weather, etc. leave, as you say, "mental scars" then that person is an emotional basket case already and probably unfit to travel anywhere, by any means.

      Your comment is exactly what I meant when I said hyperbole. Emotional scars? Puh-leeze. Your silly hypothetical trivializes those who have endured real trauma.

      It can be deeply unpleasant, and for some people it can leave mental scars that take a very long time to heal.

    4. Re:Spare me the hyperbole by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's escaped your attention, but typically the kind of people who are in charge of security at these places have far greater powers than simply asking you a few questions. Depending on how serious they think the threat is, you are potentially going to be held at gunpoint, strip-searched, and allowed to watch as they pull apart any of your luggage they think contains anything they don't like, as well as being arbitrarily delayed, potentially reported in the media, etc. And the best part is, they usually have little accountability for their actions, while you are typically not entitled to any compensation even if they cause your entire holiday to fall apart or cause expensive damage to your property. It's basically subject to their professional (or otherwise) judgement. Now, do you think installing a warning system liable to significant numbers of false positives is going to make this situation better or worse? And if you think any of the specific possibilities I have mentioned here is only hypothetical, please be very clear about which of those powers you do not think the security people have at most Western transport hubs, and I'm sure someone here can enlighten you.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    5. Re:Spare me the hyperbole by zeropointburn · · Score: 1

      airport security. tazer. fatality. google is your friend.

      --
      -1 raving lunatic; +6 subGenius... Things even out...
  40. checkpoint fun by icepick72 · · Score: 1

    New game: Which driver having a BJ can get through the checkpoint without detection. That person will have the ultimate poker face.

    1. Re:checkpoint fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New game: Which driver having a BJ can get through the checkpoint without detection. That person will have the ultimate poker face.

      If this system can't detect that someone walking though the checkpoint is currently receiving a blow job, it's even worse than the comments here expect.
      Although there should be no problem getting volunteer test subjects.

  41. No more "shoes off" on US flights? by billsf · · Score: 1

    If there is anything I don't like about flying, its taking off your shoes when flying from the US. Seriously, airports have watched people in a number of different ways long before '9-11'. What I fear is two-fold: Security will rely too much on non-proven technology and anybody who'd blow themselves up or hijack a plane is a psychopath and probably won't show outside signs of intent. As one reader correctly said: "This is a remote polygraph." How many courts of law accept that as evidence?

    Its not the 1% false-positive rate, but rather the apparent 12% false negative rate. There will always be a need for some sort of human security. Surely it can be better than the TSA's song and dance. Security is better at many airports of the West. Flying has been and always will be the safest way to travel -- even if there was no security at all. Its those very few psychopaths that make the headlines that make people actually believe terrorism is a problem.

    BillSF
         

    1. Re:No more "shoes off" on US flights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just make sure to wear your most stinky unwashed socks. They'll get the picture.

  42. Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    As if that's a bad thing.

    Let's see now... just who sets off bombs on aircraft, takes hostages, hijacks, etc. What primary distinguishing characteristic can we find to help predict who will do that? Eye color? Favourite sports team? /sarcasm

    For those who slept through Modern History class, I'll tell: religion. Specifically Muslims.
    They are the most likely group to set off a bomb on an airplane or hijack it. We can pretend that's not the case (and continue with the current "security theatre" at airports) in order to protect the delicate sensibilities of the PC crowd, but that doesn't change facts.

    And for those peaceful muslims who are offended at what I've just said, perhaps you should be more troubled by the actions of your fellow muslims and do more to reform your religion.

    >>...anyone who looks Islamic will be stopped...

    1. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1000 Underrated

    2. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Thiez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > For those who slept through Modern History class, I'll tell: religion. Specifically Muslims.
      > They are the most likely group to set off a bomb on an airplane or hijack it. We can pretend that's not the case (and continue with the current "security theatre" at airports) in order to protect the delicate sensibilities of the PC crowd, but that doesn't change facts.

      Let's assume for the sake of argument that you are more than correct and ONLY muslims will ever hijack or blow up an airplane. How do you propose we do this security checkpoint thing? "Hello good sir, what is your religion? If you are a muslim you have to go to that checkpoint there but the good god-fearing christians can skip it." I doubt having to lie to airport personel is going to stop someone who plans to kill dozens of people. Are you seriously suggesting that all muslims can be recognized on sight and that it is impossible for, let's say, a white woman to be a muslim?

    3. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't say "only".

    4. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We apologize for the inconvenience, but your attempt at humor has failed.

    5. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It looks like we need to update Pastor Niemoeller's famous poem. First they came from the Muslims...

      Here are a few other conclusions from a non-PC but apparently somewhat more objective observer.

      Probably the most violent recent religion looking over its history is Christianity. Should we detain all Christians? I bet that'll go down well in the US.

      Actually, speaking of the US, they are the only nation ever to have actually used a weapon of mass destruction at a cost of numerous civilian lives, and they have repeatedly demonstrated their willingness to go to war other than to protect themselves from an immediate physical threat. Maybe the rest of the world should just nuke the whole US and be done with them?

      Then again, the administration of any country that had WMDs could lose the plot and use them based on such dubious arguments, and any administration that has been in power for more than a short time and retains the option apparently has a willingness to consider using WMDs. Maybe it would be better for all of us if they just turned on each other to remove the threat against everyone else?

      I'll stop there, because I've pretty much killed the entire world in only three steps by applying the kind of tragic, fear-driven thinking exhibited by the parent post. But I truly hope that 2009 offers us more than a binary choice between PC security theatre and the kind of indiscriminate fear-mongering we see here.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    6. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Damn, missed a rather important typo. s/from/for/, obviously.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    7. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Your post is full of it.

      Indeed it was, in the parts you criticised. That was the point! By replying to debunk my obviously unreasonable claims, you reinforce my point rather well: of course we shouldn't use selective evidence and sweeping generalisations to make sound-bite judgements about large sections of the human race and then take draconian steps as a result. Unfortunately, the post to which I originally replied seemed to think that sort of plan was a good idea.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    8. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Thiez · · Score: 1

      I wasn't trying to be funny. The whole 'us versus them' mentality is ridiculous.

    9. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wasn't trying to be funny. The whole 'us versus them' mentality is ridiculous.

      Wow. How incredibly insightful.

      Too fucking bad you weren't a Jew in Germany in the 1930's to share that insight. A horrible tragedy might have been averted. Or maybe a German stormtrooper would have buttstroked you and then kicked you in the head until your brains ran out your nose and ears.

      Newsflash: While your thought is surely a noble one it really doesn't fucking matter as the other side doesn't think like that and they really do want to kill people who don't follow their twisted ideology.

    10. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One, and only one, of the following can be true:

      1) Every single Muslim wants to kill every single non-Muslim, and you have incontrovertible, non-speculatory evidence proving it.

      2) You're retarded.

    11. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by icegreentea · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with your post. But it should be noted that Saddam did deploy chemical weapons against Iraqi Kurds.

    12. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here are a few other conclusions from a non-PC but apparently somewhat more objective observer.
      [...]
      Actually, speaking of the US, they are the only nation ever to have actually used a weapon of mass destruction at a cost of numerous civilian lives [...]

      I assume you're referring to the atomic bombings of Japan, in which case it seems distinctly inequitable to criticize modern US practices based on the actions of a few dozen people over 60 years ago. That's just guilt by association. Oh, on a related note, it turns out that the factual premise of this claim is completely untrue, since the Japanese used biological weapons (e.g., plague-infested fleas) during WWII and Iraq used chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq war (the Halabja attack, among others).

    13. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by lpq · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously suggesting that all muslims can be recognized on sight and that it is impossible for, let's say, a white woman to be a muslim?

      Just have pictures posted of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad and see who complains about Mohammad and starts killing the people adjacent to them.

      Reminds me of when the did the prophet cartoons, and Islamic-fundie crowds had riots and scores killed -- I thought "Gee -- the anti-islam folks found a cheap way to wage war against islamic extremists -- just publish a cartoon and let the masses kill each other in mass protests.

      Eventually the world will see that Darwin was right...

    14. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      You know, it was the Nazis who marked people as enemies of the state for having the wrong religion, not the German Jews.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    15. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      As opposed to extremist christians, who are equally numerous, and like to set off bombs in clinics, synagogues, and other fun places.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    16. Re:Stopping muslims is a good thing by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with your post.

      Actually, I kinda wish you did. I was trying to demonstrate how far you can take arguments based only on unreasonable generalisations and selective evidence (such as glossing over the smaller scale WMDs that you mentioned). Everything I wrote does have elements of truth to it, but the post as a whole and the conclusions it drew didn't consider the complete picture — exactly the problem with the Islamophobic post I was replying to.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  43. From the DHS website by Jairun · · Score: 1

    http://www.dhs.gov/xres/programs/gc_1218480185439.shtm#9 Project Overview: The Homeland Security Advanced Research Project Agency (HSARPA) and S&T Directorate Human Factors Behavior Sciences (HFBS) Division Future Attribute Screening Technology (FAST) Project is an initiative to develop innovative, non-invasive technologies to screen people at security checkpoints. FAST is grounded in research on human behavior and psychophysiology, focusing on new advances in behavioral/human-centered screening techniques. The aim is a prototypical mobile suite (FAST M2) that would be used to increase the accuracy and validity of identifying persons with malintent (the intent or desire to cause harm). Identified individuals would then be directed to secondary screening, which would be conducted by authorized personnel. This project is part of the HFBS innovations portfolio (Homeland Security Advanced Research Project Agency Program).

  44. scary title... by whopub · · Score: 1

    I wasn't logged in when I read it, so it looked like this:

    "Security Checkpoints Predict What You Will Do on Thursday January 01..."

  45. Odds of this working? Approx 0 by CharlieG · · Score: 1

    I expect that this won't work - typical of any government research project 11 years out.

    It's an idea they have - won't work

    --
    -- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
  46. Missing the BIG point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out the screenshot, the scariest thing at an airport will be running on WINDOWS!!

  47. Oh god it's running on Windows... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I ever have to be waiting in the security line for 4 hours due to it crashing every 10 minutes, I'm gonna be pissed.

  48. Like a Polygraph Test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Polygraph tests can be easily fooled by someone who knows what they're doing. What's to say this system is any different?

    https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf

  49. Little Old Lady by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am so nervous of being detained and having something which I cherish confiscated even though it is not dangerous, that I get extra attention every time, meaning I am even more nervous the next time.

    I have given up flying (which I used to enjoy) because it is too stressful to pass through security.
    I have significantly increased the likelihood of dying or being injured, by driving instead.
    And the airlines wonder why they are losing customers?

  50. I can see this in conjunction with Verichips by Mipsalawishus · · Score: 1

    By 2020 everyone will be chipped with something similar to the Verichip. Walking through the entrance of one of these scanning stations your chip is scanned, the terminal does a query of your ID and factors the background information in with FAST. This if VERY plausible. We are soon to tagged like cattle. First we will be asked in the form of incentives such as easier commerce transactions. Then it will be mandated in the name of domestic security. There are too many technical reasons for this to be a bad idea. I don't see that as being a barrier to politicians pushing forward with this complete invasion of personal liberty. We are already in the first stages of living in a police state and most people do not even realize it. I have to admit that 2020 is a VERY conservative estimate, as computing power is getting cheaper and faster. In 11 years we will look back at 2009 be thankful for the amount of unmonitored freedom still we had.
    I will continue to wear my tinfoil hat even when it's not in fashion.

  51. Absolutely useless against true fanatics. by GlobalColding · · Score: 1

    Just like lie detector tests are useless against most sociopaths, this type of crap is useless against true fanatics, people who are calmly resolved to their fate. Instead of dumping billions of dollars into creating a better curtain, how about fixing the shit behind it? P.S. Apologies in advance to those who didnt get the Wizard of Oz reference.

    1. Re:Absolutely useless against true fanatics. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I have to break it to you - lie detector tests are useless against anybody really. The thing was designed by the guy that wrote Wonder Woman and sold to the notoriously corrupt J. Edgar Hoover who was rather fond of kickbacks for spending taxpayers money. Due to the unaccountable nature of DHS it is quite possible we are seeing the same thing.

  52. Autism? by Inquisitor911 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What about people who have Autism or other disorders that cause them to express emotion differently? Are you going to lock me up just because I don't seem like a regular Joe Sixpack?

  53. ...and if you're super pissed off when you go thru by moxley · · Score: 1

    I find this sort of thing to be kind of scary.

    Measruing pupil diameter, heart rate, facial expression, etc - these things are not soley indicators of mal intent - we can say that sterotypically people who DO end up blowing things up may have had a faster heart rate or disalted pupils, etc....But we cannot say that if someone seems stressed out or angry or nervous (which a lot of people are, especially when going through a government checkpoint) that they are planning on blowing something up....

    I can see it now...You're having an extremely bad day, maybe you suffer from a serious anxiety disorder, or just got in a fight with your significant other...you go through the checkpoint and they are ON YOUR ASS....(your day just got a whole lot worse because now you're being detained and questioned).

    Just another stop on the surveillance society express.....If this continues at the rate it hsa been going, then eventually life in public may be like a giant jail with no bars....With cameras and 'wardens' everywhere, new technology to detect anyone who is out of the norm in apperarance, behavior, word, deed, maybe even your very thoughts......so that anyone who isn't a good productive little citizen who toes the party line is singled out for harrassment and eventually assimilated or constantly watched.

  54. Security Checkpoints Predict What You Will Do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    My name is Schroedinger. My cat's in the bag. :)

  55. False Positives Galore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    After reading how this system will operate, it will only generate legions of false positives, and properly trained terrorists -- all two of them -- will be able to fool this silly system easily by remaining calm, even if they have to take some drugs to do it.

    And once more we see the government creating technology to harass people over a paper tiger. The chances of anyone in the US being injured or killed by a terrorist attack is vanishingly small, yet 41,000 or so still die on our highways each year.

    Oh, but it will keep the Military Industrial Complex going. And it will cost billions to implement. But the ROI sucks rocks.

  56. Re:Not at all, depending by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not at all, depending on your false positive rate and the predictability of the false negatives. If false negatives are random and you don't let people who are marked as "dangerous" leave and try again, you don't need your false negative rate to be that low -- it still presents a very significant problem to a potential attacker.

    False positives, on the other hand, are a big problem. The enormous majority of people are negatives, so with any appreciably large false positive rate, nearly all positives will be false. You then need a secondary system to separate real positives from false -- otherwise all you're doing is marking lots of random people as dangerous.

    Granted, all they cite is their "accuracy", which is ambiguous -- it's neither a false positive nor false negative rate.

    Is that like, jumbo shrimp?
    Professional (bus/1st class) tourist?

    Obviously not a pilot
    or a concerned citizen.
    Maybe just a travel agent
    trying to make a killing
    or, a mischievous teenager.

    Certainly, no statistician.

    Political analyst. That's it.

  57. This won't work for health workers. by Gonoff · · Score: 1

    Have you seen the speed that hospital staff walk?

    I think my walking speed has increased >25% since I started to work in one. Unfortunately, it has not made me loose any weight yet...

    --
    I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
  58. Nelson Mandela, Gandi, Menachem Begin etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When it becomes technologically possible to sort one's opponents from the supporters, and by other technological means, to prevent them travelling, communicating, or learning about events, there will be no need for those who already have power, to listen to the opposition and no need to keep up the pretence that they favour democracy.

    We will only keep our democracy if we prevent the ruling classes ( and especially their executive ) from putting these mechanisms in place.

    Too late for much of it.

  59. And that's why there's no better fetish than... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    ...light foot fetish. To us it's like if all girls would run around (nearly) topless on every occasion they could get, and be perfectly normal about it. :D

    Transparent diamond shoes... perfect! Only completely barefoot beats that.

    Did you know that diamonds come in many different colors?

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  60. Stories from 2020... by w0mprat · · Score: 1

    I'm running late for a job interview, I'm also nervous as hell about it. I'm walking briskly through the foyer ... oh, hello offic... *TASER*

    Or a boss, who has mal-intent bubbling in his mind as he strides into the office to yell at incompetent staffers.

    A Mother is angry with her child from hell, wishing she never had it. She steps through the security checkpoint as a sniper recieves targetting information... *HEADSHOT*

    DHS seems confident about the potential efficacy of the system even this. I'm sure this system would be plagued by false positives even with 2020 technology.

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    1. Re:Stories from 2020... by sweet_petunias_full_ · · Score: 1

      A while back (I don't have the link) there was a story about a mind reading machine as well, but that one required quite a bit more energy, so maybe by 2020 things will be so bad that false positives will be the least of our problems. Here's my version:

      TSA worker: Please enter our xray/intention/mind-reading/magnetron machine.

      The passenger enters amidst a zapping sound but jumps back smarting from third-degree burns.

      Passenger 1: Ouch!
      TSA worker: What are you doing? You were supposed to pass through there.
      Passenger 1: I'm burned, I'm badly burned. What happened to my brain?
      TSA worker: (into his sleeve) Security, code polka dot, over. Intention meter is off the scale and the mind reader registers dark thoughts.
      TSA worker: TSA worker: You must follow procedure and get into the mind-scanner machine or you will be strip searched!
      Passenger 1: No way.

      A bunch of soldiers with machine guns, mortar rounds and RPGs show up. One of them can barely hold back a three-headed police dog, who begins to snarl fiercely.

      The first passenger keels over and dies, so she is dragged off to be strip searched. Eventually someone figures out that the machine isn't working and two technicians show up to fix it.

      Tech 1: I think the volumetric irradiated power knob must be turned all the way up.
      Tech 2: No, no, it's turned all the way *down*. The problem is that the ray focus knob is turned all the way down.
      Tech 1: Like hell it is. If you think so then turn it up and get in there yourself.
      Tech 2: Hell no, YOU get in there and test it.
      Tech 1: Uh, whatever dude... I really don't feel like arguing about it. Just switch the settings however you want and let's see what happens this time.

      The yellow tape is removed and the techs duck into a lounge.

      TSA worker: NEXT!

      --
      You can't send a takedown notice to an already printed newspaper.
  61. excellent by JonathanPerelmann · · Score: 1

    another excuse to pull brown people aside for additional screening.

  62. Just what we need by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    to detect Terminators instead of using dogs...

    Call John Connor.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  63. Need to follow the money by dbIII · · Score: 1

    J. Edgar Hoover was in charge when the polygraph was sold to the FBI by no less an expert than the artist that drew Wonder Woman. So who would be getting the kickbacks this time?

    1. Re:Need to follow the money by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

      J. Edgar Hoover was in charge when the polygraph was sold to the FBI by no less an expert than the artist that drew Wonder Woman. So who would be getting the kickbacks this time?

      Not sure what the point is. How can a person's expertise elsewhere have a bearing on their expertise in this subject? The puppet maker and performer that made Jerry Mahoney and Knucklehead Smith household words in the fifties invented the artificial heart. So, did the person who drew Wonder Woman know his electrophysiology or not? You've done half your homework, finish it up. And while you're looking, did he not promote polygraph for interrogation of suspected criminals rather than screening for intent as it came to be used?

      --
      "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    2. Re:Need to follow the money by dbIII · · Score: 1

      How can a person's expertise elsewhere have a bearing on their expertise in this subject

      It wouldn't if the thing was recognised internationally as actually working. Instead it remains a sad scam and a reason for people to shake their heads at those sections of US law enforcement that are stuck with it and say "only in America".

      It's the widest deployed use of "silicon snake oil" - gadgets that say they solve a problem when there is no actual evidence that they work. Since you have suggested I do some homework I suggest the same - please name a court where polygraph evidence is actually admissable.

  64. I find this so odd. by e-scetic · · Score: 1

    If I were religious, which I am not, and was embarked on a suicide mission on behalf of [insert deity here], convinced it would please aforementioned deity and I'll be richly rewarded for it somehow, wouldn't I be rather calm, unafraid, maybe even happy to be about to reap my reward?

    Does it seem like this sort of "mal-intent detection" apparatus would be easily defeated by simple faith or belief?

    They're wrongly assuming terrorists think and behave like criminals.

  65. Parent post is the best use of deductive reasoning by Phil+Urich · · Score: 1

    If she wanted a fat cock in her pussy, would she tell you? Yeah. Your anecdote excludes families that aren't into inbreeding.

    Actually, she did tell him that, but in a typical fashion she said it in a round-about way, and he plain old didn't get it.
    From his own post:

    My sister says her favorite objects are [...] anatomy labs

    Exactly what do you think is IN an "anatomy lab"? I'll give you a clue- the term "lab" doesn't necessarily mean a building & most likely is not an abbreviation of "Laboratory". If you conduct an "Anatomy Lab" it could mean doing anything related to examining, or performing experiments involving, anatomy.
    "Lab" could also be an abbrevation for "Labia".

    Dude, your sister is a Lesbian Slut.

    Parent post is the best use of deductive reasoning in the history of mankind. Also the logic is unassailable.

    --
    I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
  66. that takes care of the individual terrorists ... by soporific16 · · Score: 1

    ...so what do we do about the state-sponsored ones? I'm so sick and tired of being asked to fear the negligible threat, when its the State that i should be worrying about.

  67. Bullshit.... by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Stop ripping off movie plots and start getting realistc. Current scientific state-of-te-art is that it is entirely unknown whether this can be done, ever. 12 years from a fundamental question being unsolved to its answer being used in a working product is completely unrealistic. Typical times in the past are in the 20-50 years range, and only after the fundamental question being answerd.

    Will this type of stupidity in the press ever end? I doubt it.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  68. "Our checkpoint says... by drolli · · Score: 1

    that while you where waiting in front of the gate for your unknown terrorist friend, which we cant locate, you notified him that you suspect you have been discovered by not calling him, and then consequently you acted completely like a normal traveler. Our checkpoint software says that your intentions are very clear, and now we have figure out how you managed to hide things from us besides the DHS searching your house for five times. The absence of any hints for explosives or communications proves that you are not only a terrorist, but also extremely dangerous."

    Hello? I am on my behalf am always getting a little bit suspicious if people invite me to visit wonderland.

  69. Same old story: 100% snake oil by golodh · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Again we see this snake oil gizmo. It's stupid. Perhaps it's a US fascination for anything that solves a problem so that you no longer have to think about it. Make that: "no longer have to think, so that we can have total morons man all our checkpoints".

    According to the article all the much vaunted device does is measure heart-rate, blink rate, direction of gaze, perspiration level. All somatic quantities linked to anxiety levels. Nothing else.

    And there's the rub. You can't catch someone who's calm and at peace with what he's about to do. Now that is a state of mind. Does "religious fanatic on a righteous mission" ring a bell? They have high levels of anxiety do they?

    Or someone with naturally low anxiety levels who has been trained to commit violence and is at ease with that? Or someone who is able to take his mind off something? Or even someone who has been sedated?

    This sort of monitoring might get an 80% success rate on ordinary Americans who are asked to carry an incriminating device through a checkpoint, but it was never tested with professional criminals. Like pick-pockets. Or fraudsters. Or even politicians for that matter.

    That's why this scanner seems to be a bit useless against pre-meditated acts of terrorism committed by dedicated terrorists. It may have some success against people who are planning to spray grafitti on the wall of the office loo though. Nice going to counter a high-impact threat.

  70. Brilliant work by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 1

    Now people can move through as if they weren't being screened at all, as opposed to just being delayed and harassed and having their bags checked as if they weren't being screened at all.

    2021: With no change in effectiveness of security measures since introduction of the "just walk through and don't bother being screened" system, the whole thing is declared a success. Thousands of unionized screeners at airports across the country continue to receive paychecks until 2221.

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
  71. Go jump out from a window by unity100 · · Score: 1

    didnt hear something that is as idiotic as this.

    we couldnt even implement a good man-machine interface using brain waves, or even eye motions, but some people are predicting motive predicting checkpoings in 2020.

    ok. ill take that. and add a $5 trip to andromeda galaxy for me in addition to that.

    human motives and emotions and behaviour is complex. bodily responses are COMMON. the same physiological reaction of body to two different conditions can be the same. one may be blowing up a bomb, one is anxiety over some serious situation.

    yet, a checkpoint will tell them apart. despite the entire science of psychology is in infant stages of analyzing human emotions and physical responses.

  72. Re:Bullshit - All Terrorists have Noses by Cuppa+'Joe'+Black · · Score: 1

    Well, except for Anwar "No Nose" Al Hakam. But the face recognition scan should snag him.

    --
    Technically, murder-suicide does not violate the golden rule.
  73. As if terrorists will be nervous! by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, but the people who commit these crimes are generally NOT nervous, they're resolved and committed, thus perfectly calm and focused on the task at hand.

    They've had their time of angst before they got close to the building. To them it makes no difference whether they're caught, tried, and killed by execution, because in their minds they're dead already 1 minute AFTER going through the checkpoint.

    Heck, given the checkpoint is also a chokepoint they will be equally effective detonating their devices near the scanner as anywhere else. What do you do then mr security officer?

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  74. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  75. Compare to polygraph tests? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's interesting research, but I'm guessing this can be proven to be just as fallacious as polygraph tests. In short, you can fake a physiological response through training.

  76. Fun idea by phorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about everyone comes through quickly - person by person - enters a bomb-proof enclosure, and is subjected to measures that would set off about 99% of bombs for premature detonation.

    Maybe every 1 in 1,000,000 times you might get a *whoomph* followed by the need for a clean-up crew and a dust-bin, while renders the room unavailable for a time and everyone else has to go through the other enclosures, but it'd still be faster and more effective than the current methods :-)

  77. That's going to be fun with the flu.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's going to be fun - there will be more delays then ever when the usual waves of flu strike (bird flu!), or when someone carries an extra packet of cigarettes. What's more, what are the effects of false positives? After all, you are about to accuse someone of nefarious motives without evidence, which is somewhat wide of the mark of the constitution and possible of their Human Rights.

    If all that money spent on this nonsense was spent on (a) trying to identify a way to accept that other nations may just view life differently, (b) mass collaboration amongst newspapers to keep any terrorism off the front page and (c) human intelligence on discovering where someone is still planning to sponsor attacks I am willing to bet it would have been a more efficient use of the funds.

    But that would be like hard work, no?

  78. Out of curiosity by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

    What would be your recommendation for preventing terrorist attacks?

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    1. Re:Out of curiosity by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      Once again, when people ask me for solutions in my industry, I have them, and they work. Pay me to be in the "preventing terrorist attacks" industry, and I'll work on it.

      Today, I'm successfull in my industry, and I expect others to be successful in theirs. Anything less would be irresponsible.

    2. Re:Out of curiosity by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Ok, good to know.

      If I ever need some help in the "question dodging" industry, the "making lame excuses" industry, or the "criticizing things I don't understand" industry, you'll be my first call.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    3. Re:Out of curiosity by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      That's no question dodging, and it's not a lame excuse, and I'm not the one criticizing anything.

      Stating that something is not my expertiese and is therefore not my forte is called responsible. When you finish growing up, you'll learn that being "independent" is for rebellious teenagers; adults mature to become inter-dependant. We depend on others for the vast majority of things so that we can focus on a much smaller set of items. It's called specialization, and it's a big part of any complex organism -- societies and civilizations included.

      See, I don't grow my own corn, and I don't milk my own cows. But I certainly get to comment when the corn is rotten and the milk is sour. That's how inter-dependant systems work. Those knowledgeable in an area work to solve the problem defined by those specifically not in the area. It makes sense this way because typically those within the area have the knowledge and ability to not require those problem to be solved.

      Similarly, I needn't solve half of the problems in my industry for myself, because I'm far too skilled in my avenues to need any sort of efficient solutions to most problems. But my clients, my family, and my friends aren't at all skilled in these areas. So the smallest problems require efficient solutions -- simply because they aren't small problems in their eyes. So I work, hard, to solve those problems.

      I expect the same thing from those skilled at providing security from terrorist threats. I can't tell them how -- I lack the resources that they've been given specifically to solve such problems. In this case, the terrorist security industry has been given a few BILLION -- that's with a capital "B" -- dollars, unlimited amounts of time, personnel, space, and all available technology to get the job done. And you expect me to have a solution with absolutely none of that, and with all of the burdens placed upon me by my own industry?

      It's good that I'm also inter-dependant with you, I depend on you to be a jerk -- so that I don't have to.

    4. Re:Out of curiosity by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry. You argued so persuasively and authoritatively against the TSA, who has not allowed a single terrorist attack against the airline industry, that I mistook you for someone who knew what he was talking about.

      I apologize with deepest sincerity for jumping to that unfortunate conclusion. Rest assured that from now on, I'll take you at your word that you do not at all know what you are talking about. Feel free to go back to your php scripting.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    5. Re:Out of curiosity by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      I'm not a php person.

      And, um, there have been plenty of terrorist attacks against airline. The TSA isn't new, it's just a new name for something that's always been around.

      And, again, I never argued against the TSA. All I said was that this system will flag me as different, for no good reason.

  79. Greeeat by pyrote · · Score: 1

    So, From what I can gather from this article is:
    It detects Thermal differences and mannerisms as you approach the portal.

    So if you have to take a raging dump because you have a FLU and your nervous about this new "don't worry, act normally" sign you see ahead of you, and your worried you'll get stopped and cause even worse embarrassment to you and your travel partners, your likely to get picked up.

    This make me wanna fly just that much more.

    --
    THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!! eventually.
  80. Well, duh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's high probability that any given person was sleeping off a hang-over Thursday.

    -ghostis