Family Dog Cloned, Thanks To Dolly Patents

patentpundit writes "BioArts International announced today that they have delivered the world's first commercially cloned dog, a 10-week old Labrador named Lancey, to Florida residents Edgar and Nina Otto. According to the press release issued by the company, 'BioArts International is a biotech company focused on unique, untapped markets in the global companion animal, stem cell and human genomics industries. The Best Friends Again program is a collaboration between BioArts and the Sooam Biotech Research Foundation in South Korea, home to the best and most experienced dog cloning team in the world.' The technology that makes this animal cloning possible stems from the cloning patents developed at the Roslin Institute for the cloning of the now famous, or infamous depending on your view, Dolly the sheep."

Comments

Why?

[gnick]

A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Monkey]

Because that was the best tasting dog ever and I want seconds.

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

"A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?"

If you have to ask, then you couldn't possibly understand.

I dunno about cat people, but, as a 'dog person'...I can tell you that my animals really have become a part of the family. They aren't treated like 'dogs' or animals, they are really more just little fuzzy people that don't talk much in our homes.

When I lose my pups....I grieve over them like I would a friend or family member that is close to me.

In fact...I've often though, if you don't feel this way about your pets....why own one?

Re:Why?

[gnick]

I understand loving your pets. I love my dog and, when he goes, it will be exceeding painful. If I could have him return as a puppy when he dies it would be great.

But genetically identical != same dog. The fact that I don't need a clone doesn't mean I don't love my dog, just that I accept that he'll die one day and that nothing (not even cloning) will bring him back. Well... Maybe burying him in that old Indian burial ground a short hike from my back yard... But that just seems like I'd be asking for trouble.

Re:Why?

[donnyspi]

Seems to me it cheapens their value if you can just replace them. I have a dog whom I adore, but I would never clone him so I could replace him when he goes. Gah, it's a creepy thought actually. His memory will live forever in my heart when he goes. That said, if other people want to do it, then good for them.

Re:Why?

[stokessd]

The old and tired bumper sticker sums it up nicely:

"The more people I meet, the more I like my dog"

My dogs and cat are members of the family. I'd throw my neighbor's sprogs under a train to save my dog.

But with so many animals in shelters, it seems a bit odd to clone one (other than to say you can). Go give a new one a good home.

Sheldon

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

But what is the advantage of getting a clone of your Labradoodle, v.s. getting a new Labradoodle pup? The clone isn't the original, it is an entirely different animal that has the same DNA. So getting another dog of the same breed will have pretty much the same DNA also. And many traits aren't determined by DNA, such as location of certain spots -- it can be as random as fingerprints.

Re:Why?

[malkir]

A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?

There are more people that own and are compassionate towards their dog they've had for 10 years...lives in your home, maybe even sleeps at the foot of your bed.

ex. The dog I've had all through childhood is nearing her last year and a half or so, shes almost deaf and her vision is going - still happy ever. Now, if I wanted to you know...clone my beloved dog, it's just a fiscal barrier away.

They are tapping into a market with guaranteed buyers, much larger I would think then horses which are larger and probably more difficult to breed properly. A slow dog isn't really considered a waste of money.

Re:Why?

[squiggleslash]

Because until it was fossilized, it was your best and only friend and always sat there outside of the pizza shop waiting for your return?

Re:Why?

[vux984]

If you have to ask, then you couldn't possibly understand.

If your cat mittens died, its dead, you grieve, and you get a new pet. You don't go around trying to reanimate your dead cat do you? \

When I lose my pups....I grieve over them like I would a friend or family member that is close to me.

er... so if your wife died, you'd clone her too? I happen to know for a fact that mine thinks that's creepy on multiple levels.

Re:Why?

[mcgrew]

I see you've never had a beloved dog or cat. I feel sorry for you.

My cat (actually my daughter's cat) got me through a divorce, a home foreclosure, and a bankrupcy. A dog or a cat will give love without demanding anything from you except food, water, and a place to take a shit.

A dog won't nag, a cat won't scold. They're always there for you. Their love is unconditional. I'd clone Little One in a heartbeat if I had the money.

Re:Why?

[jollyreaper]

Because that was the best tasting dog ever and I want seconds.

Watch out, this guy can probably kick your ass at Starcraft, too.

Re:Why?

[pete-classic]

Grandma is part of the family too . . .

-Peter

Re:Why?

[SatanicPuppy]

I think trying to xerox the dog kinda misses the point. You're going to spend the entire dogs life wondering why he's not exactly like his progenitor.

Get a new dog, and you can keep your good memories of the previous dog untainted.

Re:Why?

[alexborges]

Yes yes, this is precisely the point.

A dog is a guy, one loves them. True. But they are an experience that changes your life.

What you want to do if you loose a great companion dog is grieve... and then, when youre ready, go and have a new adventure with a new dog! Why the exact same genome?

The genome means nothing to human emotions. Nothing at all. We can adopt and love our children as our own. We can love people that are not in our family and will never be.

The genome is only a code that generaly states how the hell the thingie will look, what diseases it inherits, what inheritable strenghts can it inherit. But its not, at all, the same individual (it really CANT be the same individual, you see? Not in this universe. To quote Dr. House "ive complained, but there you have it").

Re:Why?

[ianare]

er... so if your wife died, you'd clone her too?

Depends. Are there certain parts of her anatomy that I can ... 'enhance' ?

Re:Why?

[gnick]

Not at all the case. I love my dog dearly (the cats are OK too I guess...) But that's really part of the problem I see with this.

I accept that you love your pets and accept them as members of your family. That's great and I understand completely - I'm in the same boat. But, if another member of your family died, would you also clone them? Cloning a beloved pet only strikes me as slightly less creepy than cloning a beloved child that died too early...

Like I said in a post above, genetically identical != same animal. We (typically) outlive our pets. That's just the way it is. Forming an emotional bond to an animal just because it shares genes with an animal that you loved just seems unhealthy.

Re:Why?

[Mr. Slippery]

I can tell you that my animals really have become a part of the family.

If your sister died, would you have her cloned? What about your son or daughter?

I love my dogs very much. I would think it an insult to them to think that cloning would "bring them back" any more than it would bring back a human family member.

Re:Why?

[ucblockhead]

If I lost my kid, I wouldn't want a clone of that kid. That would be sick, as the clone wouldn't be the same person as the kid I lost. You can't replace a kid, cloning notwithstanding.

Same goes for pets. If your pet dies, it is gone. To think cloning brings that pet back is a lie.

Re:Why?

[Feanturi]

Except that you've missed the point that "Little One 2" would not resemble the one you already know, personality-wise. Did you know that with a cat clone, the fur colour wouldn't even necessarily be the same? Get a new one and grow some love for that one as well, you'll be emotionally richer for it. With a clone you'd be forcing expectations on an innocent animal that only wants to love you unconditionally, while you're still looking to find "Little One" in them. That's just wrong.

Re:Why?

[morgan_greywolf]

Maybe burying him in that old Indian burial ground a short hike from my back yard... But that just seems like I'd be asking for trouble.

Don't do it. Those Indians couldn't even SPELL sematary!

Re:Why?

[yancey]

Think of it as very expensive therapy. Having something that looks similar, but does not have the same personality should gradually allow the owner to let go.

Re:Why?

[e2d2]

You want to have a good laugh? Walk into a shelter and ask for 55 lbs of cat.

Re:Why?

[Hal_Porter]

When I was in Korea there was an English punk fanzine that run a phrasebook every now and again. One of the entries was "Dog eating savages!", clearly a handy phrase to know in Korean.

Re:Why?

[fyoder]

The genome is only a code that generaly states how the hell the thingie will look, what diseases it inherits, what inheritable strenghts can it inherit.

But there are also elements of personality which are genetic. No, a clone won't be the same dog, but it will be effectively its identical twin and more like the old dog than any new dog could be.

Re:Why?

[knghtrider]

A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?

Wouldn't that be cheating? After all, with a prize show animal, you're looking for the best BRED animal; and with a race horse, it's a matter of genetics as well. To clone a prize animal seems to cheapen the sport. Granted, show animals and race horses have 'off days'; but still, it weighs the odds to heavily.

Re:Why?

[garett_spencley]

I realize you're being funny, but in the true geek spirit, and being someone who loves to cook and has considered changing careers and becoming a chef, I can not resist the urge to get serious and rip this hypothesis apart.

There are actually a lot of factors, outside of the breed, that influence the taste of meat. The feed being the most important. So we'll assume that you feed it the exact same diet (and that the manufacturer of said feed does not alter it's ingredients). Then hope that the dog never gets sick and requires medication. But then, maybe your original dog got sick and needed medication and that contributed somewhat to it's flavour. Environmental conditions also play a vital role. Did the dog get lots of exercise ? Muscle strength contributes immensely to the texture, tenderness and flavour of the meat. Was the dog ever abused (maybe a previous owner) ? Stress releases all kinds of hormones and chemicals in the body that can affect flavour. Leave the dog alone for a day, get him all worked up and upset, and come back to have a completely different tasting animal.

Farmers who compete on quality and taste (as oppose to cost) have come up with all kinds of theories and practices (some proven, some superstitions, some plausible but untested) that they claim gives their meat a superior taste and texture. For example, some cow farmers actually massage their meat with electric massagers, claiming it produces more tender beef.

Ultimately I must side with the GP. Cloned Animal != Same Animal.

Re:Why?

[sortius_nod]

For that you need fast fossilization... and the very power of nature itself.

Re:Why?

[garett_spencley]

To further this thought, some people might not actually want the SAME dog, but a dog with the same temperment and behavioural tendencies.

But then, I'm not a pet person at all. So I might not "get it". I do know that I would want a dog that can be easily trained not to bark or crap in my house, though.

So if you had one that was a breeze to train why not get it's genetic identical ?

Re:Why?

[elrous0]

I feel the same way about my identical twins. I've already told them "Boys, if one of you dies, I'm killing the other one too." It would just be too creepy to keep the other one around.

Re:Why?

[geekoid]

Except a cloned dog will not be the same as the original.

If it was an identical clone physically, mentally, and behaviorally then I could see, but this is just another dog that happens to look like another dog.

Re:Why?

[e2d2]

Nonsense. The dog spirit transfers from one body to the next just like any other. I should know, in my last life I was a malamute. At least, that's my excuse when I play with my balls.

Re:Why?

[IainMH]

I totally hear that. I would be devastated if something happened to my cats.

I confess that I'm now a cat person. I wasn't 18 months ago. I liked cats more after living with my friend's ginger tom for a while, but still wasn't a cat lover per se.

Then last year I got two Maine Coons. Anyone who has a Maine Coon will understand when I say 'nuff said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Coon

Best. Cats. Ever.

Re:Why?

[viper34j]

Leave the dog alone for a day, get him all worked up and upset, and come back to a completely different tasting animal.

This sentence tickles me in so many different ways...

Re:Why?

[MobyDisk]

Are you telling me that some meat producers abuse their animals to impact the flavor?

"Jeb, I think beating that sheep then neglecting it for 3 days really added to the smoky flavor. Do you think we should try shooting it and letting it bleed to death first?"

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

i love my dog and know his personality inside out. It would be kinda fun seeing the difference to me because of my environment now then when I raised my current dog. I dont think i would be looking for the EXACT dog but it would be fun to watch and see how alike/different they were and what role the genes really do play.

Re:Why?

[deathlyslow]

Assuming the animal was a registered breed, you could contact the breeder and see if they have another litter from the same or relatives to the sire and dam. It would be close just like a clone would be.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't be a problem. We all know that what happens to one twin happens to both. If one dies, well...problem solved.

Re:Why?

[garett_spencley]

Actually, yes :(

I would never buy meat from a farmer that does that, but in some parts of the world they do truly sick things to the animals (like skinning them alive) because they think it makes the meat taste better.

One extremely popular food that could count as an example is Foie Gras. It's duck liver (though you can get Foie Gras from other animals but unless you specify what animal then duck is usually assumed) that has been artificially enlarged via force feeding the animal. Whether or not gorging is actually uncomfortable for the animal is debatable (I have heard plausible arguments from people claiming that fowl will actually self-gorge before migration, and anecdotes from farmers who claimed the animals actually LIKE it), but it has been banned in some parts of the world because the gorging is seen as animal abuse.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

So if you had one that was a breeze to train why not get it's genetic identical ?

That's fine so long as you don't delude yourself into thinking it will be exactly the same as the original. However, I forsee a very strong potential for taking advantage of grieving pet owners by suggesting otherwise. It doesn't mean the technology shouldn't exist, but perhaps articles like this should focus more on what can't ever be done.

For anyone who does want a dog with known personality traits, try looking in a humane shelter first. Most reputable shelters have staff with experience on a wide range of dog and cat personalities, it can be useful to talk with them about your prefrences. The shelter may even have the kind of pet you want, if they do adoption will be far cheaper and probably just as effective.

Re:Why?

[macraig]

So does this mean you'll also be advocating cloning your wife just before she croaks from cancer, or your kid after she gets hit by a bus? Even though the result will only LOOK like your dead wife or kid, and not actually BE them? How shallow are you?

Re:Why?

[PitaBred]

The fact that you'd say that you'd kill people to save an animal is... disturbing.

An animal is a hell of a companion, and I've loved the dogs and cats that I've had, but they're animals. Period, end of story. If you get more out of your relationships with your animals than with people, perhaps the problem is not with other people, but with you?

Re:Why?

[Kingrames]

At first I thought you were a sick bastard, but I looked up the meaning of the word "Sprog" and found out it means children.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because animal cruelty is hilarious!

PS: Fuck you.

Re:Why?

[trailerparkcassanova]

Or ask them if they have any feeder kittens.

Re:Why?

[ljw1004]

The genome means a heck of a lot to human emotions.

Think of the many stories of twins who were separated at birth, raised in ignorance of each other, then are re-united and discover a deeper bond with each other than with anyone else. It doesn't always happen, but it happens often enough to show that there's something going on.

The perception of the genome means a lot to animal emotions.

Think of the finch studies (they're what I've read about in Dawkins' "Extended Phenotype") where a parent bird cares for its offspring in direct proportion to what percentage of the genome the parent thinks this offspring shares.

Think of pretty much the entirety of human history and its obsession with bloodlines, and male sons, and fidelity. Genome needn't matter, but it's a historical fact that it does.

It's true what you wrote that "We *can* love people not in our family". But at the same time the genome has an enormous effect on emotions.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the fact you're going to live another 30x365=11000 days cheapen your day today??? What does that even mean???

Re:Why?

[LWATCDR]

I agree. My wive adopted a rescue puppy that we a breeder at a puppy mill. She was the most loving animal you have ever seen.
We lost her after only a year because of kidney failure. Both my wife and I where heart broken. Three weeks later my wife and went to our local shelter and found this really sweet 10 month old puppy. She seemed to fall in love with my wife and now is a great member of our family.
I wish I could have brought back my old dog and give her a good life from beginning to end. Even with cloning I can not.
If you really are a dog person and lose your pet then I would suggest that the best way to show your love is to go to a shelter and give one of those dogs a good home.

Re:Why?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

I have to admit that episode put a tear in my eye.

Re:Why?

[Rary]

So if you had one that was a breeze to train why not get it's genetic identical?

Because simply getting another dog of the same breed will often produce the same results. Plus, it's usually not the dog so much as the trainer. If you were successful once, you'll probably be successful again.

Want a dog that doesn't bark or crap in the house? Get a greyhound. Any greyhound. You don't need to clone mine.

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

"er... so if your wife died, you'd clone her too?"

Hell no....I mean if I went to all that trouble to ki.......er.....

No..I'd not waste the money on cloning the wife.

:)

I put a LOT of value on that 'till death do us part' part of the vows.

Re:Why?

[dwarg]

Pigs are bled to death to preserve the flavor of the meat. They are usually electrocuted first to render them unconscious, then the throat is slit.

Re:Why?

[Adult film producer]

There is a natural (organic if you want to call it that) foie gras that the spaniards market.. it's a regional duckling that gorges on the local feed before moving on. The livers are not nearly as big and the flavor isn't quite the same as force fed foie gras. Besides that, the force feeding of these ducks isn't as horrible as some people make it out to be. They just open the mouth and stick a tube down the throat, filling their tummy up with beans and stuff.. takes 4 seconds and the bird hardly makes a noise (with this happening several times a day for a couple of weeks before slaughter.) I'm sure there are some youtube videos that show it.

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

"The fact that you'd say that you'd kill people to save an animal is... disturbing."

Strange isn't it?

I can watch a movie where people get blown away and slashed with chain saws with no problem, BUT let them kick one dog, and I"\'m outta there!!

Seriously..I don't know. If I saw a kid I didn't know in traffic and my dog there too about to get hit, I gotta guess I'd run to grab and save my dog first.

Re:Why?

[SnarfQuest]

So, you paid a huge sum of money on a cloned dog. How do you know you have an actual clone, and not just another dog they pulled out of the pound? Don't lab's look pretty much the same? After spending that much, I hope you've also paid for some DNA testing.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

... so if your wife died, you'd clone her too?

Over and over again. I would create a pet cloning company to both fund the effort and cover up the human cloning operation.

Re:Why?

[Rary]

I agree with your post 95%. The 5% I can't agree with is your last sentence.

I love my furry children (1 dog, 2 cats). But when they're gone, they're gone. I'll probably get more, but why would I want them to be genetic twins to the ones I had? The originals will still be gone, and there's enough animals in shelters desperate for good homes that it just seems selfish and cruel to conjure up some more in a lab.

Re:Why?

[Qrlx]

Why you gotta pick on ducks? The entire production animal ecosystem consist of animals "artificially enlarged."

Cows don't normally eat corn, antibiotics, and parts of other cows. But that's what we put in the feed trough.

The notion of "animal abuse" seems incongruous with the fact that said animals exist solely to be slaughtered and eaten.

Re:Why?

[couchslug]

"Because that was the best tasting dog ever and I want seconds."

Pat him on the head and he might let you do it again!

Re:Why?

[bar-agent]

Having something that looks similar, but does not have the same personality should gradually allow the owner to let go.

I think it's more like, "You look like Dave, but you aren't acting like Dave ever would. What are you?" You know, like your dog is a pod person now. Probably not therapeutic.

Re:Why?

[ChienAndalu]

I dunno about cat people, but, as a 'dog person'...I can tell you that my animals really have become a part of the family. They aren't treated like 'dogs' or animals, they are really more just little fuzzy people that don't talk much in our homes.

How much would you pay for, lets say, a kidney transplant for your dog? How much would you pay for a neurosurgeon or a radiation therapy in case of cancer?

Not trolling, just curious.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

That reminds me of the Gholas from the Dune novels. All you have to do is stress the clone to the point of near excruciating pain and all of its memory and personality is restored. Bad news is that if you beat your dog previously, it would remember all of the previous beatings and hopefully give you a good scar for it.

Re:Why?

[SnarfQuest]

but it will be effectively its identical twin

As I understand it, there are a lot of factors involved in the gestation, which will atter the development. Temperature, available food, etc all come together, and as one example will affect the patterning of the fur. If you look at the existing cloned animals and their "parent meterial", it's obvious that they look different.

So no, it won't be an "identical twin".

Re:Why?

[shaka999]

Please tell me you don't also baby talk to your dogs. I have a 2 year old whippet. She is great and part of the family but she is ...... a dog. Not a person.

Re:Why?

[Spellvexit]

A Korean friend of mine told me about how very once and a while her family would take a trip out to the country, and one of their haunts was a place quite near a "dog farm." Apparently, the meat is tastier when engorged with blood, but that doesn't happen well unless the animal is tenderized while alive. So occasionally their peaceful trips to the country would be punctuated by the yelping and keening of dogs being beaten to death, simply to enhance flavor.

The Korean taste for dog is probably over-exaggerated over here, but there's apparently a (quite brutal) market for it over there. Thankfully my friend was not a consumer, but honestly, I'd think a trip to the country like that would put off quite a few potential dog-eaters!

Re:Why?

[PaganRitual]

The fact that you'd say that you'd kill people to save an animal is ...

... the same as saying that you'd kill an animal to save another animal.

Yes, most people place the 'people' animals above the 'other' animals, but the fact that we're all animals. And when those animals become basically a part of the family there is an attachment similar to any other. How hard is this for people to understand.

I've never understood why it's acceptable to make jokes about, say, killing my cat, as though it's so funny. I'm sure that most people that have met people that don't like cats/dogs know what I'm talking about. If I were to joke about killing their children, I imagine they wouldn't be as amused.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

...and then that one dies. Then you need therapy to get over your therapy. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

It still doesn't make sense.

I'm a "dog person", too; I haven't had a chance to enrich my life yet since I'm still a student, but suffice to say that I want a dog at least as much as other people want children, and that I know that when I'll get one, it'll be the most wonderful moment of my life - the beginning of an era of love and companionship.

I very much understand what it's like to have a dog - and, more to the point, what it's like to NOT have one, because that's the situation I find myself in right now.

That being said, if your dog dies - and unfortunately, since dogs don't live as long as humans do, it WILL happen -, cloning him or her won't bring him back to life. In fact, it's not going to do anything at all other than giving you a new dog that happens to have exactly the same DNA as your old dog (not counting issues that may creep up during cloning; I'm not sure how error-prone the process is).

But why would you care about that? If my malamute (that's the breed I'm in love with) dies, I know it'll take me a long time until a new dog will be able to fill the void she'll have left, but once I *do* get a new dog, why would I care about whether her DNA matches that of my previous dog? What I will care about is having a loving companion again, but I don't need a cloned dog for that - I just need a good dog breeder I trust who takes good care of their dogs.

In the end, you're paying a large sum of money for something that doesn't matter - not for a new companion, but rather for the totally irrelevant fact that your new companion will have the same DNA as your old companion.

People probably believe in their sorrow that it'll somehow really be their old companion that's brought back, but it's not going to be the case. I don't want to say "they'll be in for a rude awakening", since chances are that they'll be happy with the new pup no matter what, but they could've had the same happiness for much less.

Re:Why?

[DarkOx]

I am a cat person and trust me we are every bit as much attached to our cats as you are to your dogs. I grew up with dogs and cats. I don't personally care to have a dog myself but I certainly understand your attachment. Pets do become a part of the family. My cat is certainly one of my best friends and when she is gone I will miss her terribly and grieve for her just like the cats I grew up with and still miss today, just like a people in my life that have gone.

Still I don't think I would ever want to have her cloned. There are plenty of other cats that deserve to have a good home and if there is ever a vacancy in mine I would surely adopt one of them and make a new friend; rather than selfishly try and cling to the old.

Re:Why?

[commodoresloat]

You want to have a good laugh? Walk into a shelter and ask for 55 lbs of cat.

Why would they have that much pussy laying around a homeless shelter?

Re:Why?

[osgeek]

My dad had a standard poodle that was friggin' brilliant. Everything we wanted to teach it only took a couple of training sessions. Best dog ever. I would take a clone of it in a heartbeat and when that one died I'd take another exactly like it.

Re:Why?

[commodoresloat]

If I were to joke about killing their children, I imagine they wouldn't be as amused.

Maybe you just need better material; I always get hearty guffaws from the crowd once I break out the infanticide jokes.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether or not gorging is actually uncomfortable for the animal is debatable (I have heard plausible arguments from people claiming that fowl will actually self-gorge before migration, and anecdotes from farmers who claimed the animals actually LIKE it), but it has been banned in some parts of the world because the gorging is seen as animal abuse.

I wonder if parents allowing their children to gorge is considered child abuse.

Re:Why?

[osgeek]

I've trained a lot of animals, mostly dogs. You know fairly quickly which ones are the smart ones and which ones are hopeless idiots. Sure, you can train the idiots - but it's a lot more work.

If there's one thing that's great about cloning - it's going to finally put this whole nature vs nurture issue in the realm of science. For things like basic animal intelligence, people will finally understand the truly overwhelming impact of nature.

Re:Why?

[DarkOx]

I agree with you to a point but I do think that by and large animals like children are inoccent where as people (adults at least) we might make a value judgement on. I would certainly try and save my neighbors children before rescuing my cat; and my neighbor to for that matter but there are other people I would certainly choose the cat over. I would help someone I don't know from danager I would help 99.9% of people I do know but there is thaty .01% that frankly I think both I and every thing else on this planet would be better off with out. If harm is headed there way and I am not the cause I don't think I would feel obligated to interceed.

Similarly if say someone tried to harm my cat for no reason, well I consider the cat part of my family I would consider it the action the same as if they acted against me and I would respond just as visciosly.

Re:Why?

[SpecBear]

That's the first thing I thought of when I heard of people cloning their pets. Since clones aren't necessarily identical in appearance or personality, this has the potential to be a great scam. I think I've finally figured out step 2:

1. Collect $150K to clone dog.
2. Send mass email with picture to shelters: "Will pay $1000 for puppy that looks like this."
3. Profit!

Re:Why?

[osgeek]

That kind of assumes your goal is to give some animal a home.

To me, that's like saying "Why go buy the new snazzy gaming computer you want when there are so many old 486's going to land fills? Why not go get a used/refurbished one to give it a desk to sit on?"

Re:Why?

[Cyberax]

Also, look at pressed duck ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressed_duck ) - it is disgusting, because ducks are slowly strangled to retain blood.

Re:Why?

[aliquis]

... because playing Red Alert made him too hungry.

Re:Why?

[osgeek]

Insult to them? What does that even mean? You think they're in doggy heaven looking down feeling mournful over your desire to play god?

As for people cloning, I guess if you really think the genetic make-up of a person is something worth going through the trouble of raising that person from a baby, knock yourself out.

Maybe when I die, one of my grand-kids might want to raise a clone of me... dunno. Might be what they want... might make them feel I was there again. I find strong value judgments on the idea to be superstitious and overly-emotional.

Re:Why?

[renegadesx]

I love you sarge?

Re:Why?

[Vivika]

A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?

In the event a beloved pet dies, would you not want a second chance?

Re:Why?

[tkrotchko]

It still doesn't make any sense.

Cloning a human or animal will not make it like the old animal. Oh sure, the animal may look the same, but unless you raised it precisely the same way, then it will be different, and probably by a lot. Look at identical twins... they are clones, and they're often nothing alike. I think a lot of people think a clone will be a snapshot of the first animal. Perhaps they watch too much television.

You can get the same effect by just buying a new animal of the same breed. It will look pretty much the same, and you have about the same chance as a clone of getting a similar temperament.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

An animal is a hell of a companion, and I've loved the dogs and cats that I've had, but they're animals. Period, end of story. If you get more out of your relationships with your animals than with people, perhaps the problem is not with other people, but with you?

The problem is not with him, but with you. My dog is a known quantity. She's actually saved my ass on one occasion, and we've had years of fun and companionship together. I respect her as fellow lifeform. She has earned it.

What have you or your snot-nosed children done for me? Why should I trust you? Are you better because you walk upright, procreate heathens, and fuck over your friends using subterfuge, all of which dogs do not?

Watch the news.. sure, some would say it's sensationalized, but I disagree: it simply shows us humans for the shitbags we are.

The short version: I do not trust people by default, but I *do* treat them with a basic level of respect and courtesy until they warrant otherwise. This does not place you above my dog in my food chain. Four decades of living in major cities on two continents and seeing what people are capable does that to you.

I've been flamed for it, but I'll say it again: If my dog and your children fall from the same collapsing bridge into the icy river, my athleticism is going to save my dog, not your kids. They're your problem. The dog is my concern.

And woe to the poor bastard that kills my dog: I've got a piece of piano wire with their name on it. It will not go well for them.

Re:Why?

[squiggleslash]

That would be because you're a human being.

Puny human!

Re:Why?

[shutdown -p now]

An animal is a hell of a companion, and I've loved the dogs and cats that I've had, but they're animals. Period, end of story. If you get more out of your relationships with your animals than with people, perhaps the problem is not with other people, but with you?

I agree with GP (it's s/dog/cat/ for me, though), though with a clarification that it depends on the people. I've seen enough whose lives certainly worth less to me than the life of my cat.

Re:Why?

[rts008]

"If your cat mittens died, its dead, you grieve, and you get a new pet. You don't go around trying to reanimate your dead cat do you? \"

No, wrong answer....Turn in your geek card at the door on the way out.

The true geek would just install Linux on the dead cat, using this protocol. (note: you may have to hack a script or two due to the differences between a dead cat and a dead badger...YMMV)

Re:Why?

[rts008]

LOL!
That's bound to be an effective way to teach them to look out for each other!!

Re:Why?

[MyrddinBach]

Also in Japan some of the boats that hunt dolphin will beat the dolphin to death while it's on the boat before storage because they believe it causes the pain of the beating causes it to release chemicals that make the dolphin meat taste better.

Re:Why?

[cusco]

During my first trip to Peru I got talking to a kid who was excited because they were going to kill and eat the turkey for Christmas. I asked him whether it was hard to kill the turkey, and he said, "Well, not normally, but sometimes they don't want to drink the wine." Huh? Turns out they get the turkey falling-down drunk before slaughtering it because they say it tastes better.

Re:Why?

[Tomfrh]

It's true. Producers know this too. If they want to prove someone is a real cold blooded evil son of a bitch, they get the character to shoot a dog.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I also recall reading somewhere (can't find it now) That research was done on cats where the conditions of the female changed the the color of its offsprings coat?

Re:Why?

[estarriol]

"I've never understood why it's acceptable to make jokes about, say, killing my cat, as though it's so funny. I'm sure that most people that have met people that don't like cats/dogs know what I'm talking about. If I were to joke about killing their children, I imagine they wouldn't be as amused."

It's easy to extend this logic as a prime argument for vegetarianism. I don't expect I'd get many laughs out of asking meat-eaters whether they'd eat human children, although in context this is an entirely reasonable question. This is why I avoid discussions as to why I became a vegetarian.

Re:Why?

[estarriol]

"And woe to the poor bastard that kills my dog: I've got a piece of piano wire with their name on it. It will not go well for them."

I'm with you on this. I feel fortunate that nobody has ever hurt one of my pets, as "he maimed my cat" is not usually a good legal defense for attempted murder.

Re:Why?

[syousef]

But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?

- Familiarity. Similar looks will bring out similar emotions. (Reminds me of a couple of guys I know that dumped or were dumped by one girlfriend only to find another that looked and acted almost identically)

- Similar temperament. Eliminates non-environmental variance. Same breed, perhaps similar inherent tendencies and trainability

- Similar to having the animal's offspring - you feel like you have a part of them

- Curiosity. To see how similar or different the new dog actual is to what you remember of the old

- Inability to accept or deal with the loss of the pet

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

But then Arnold will come and shut you down, any pretty much everybody involved with the program will die, except the Arnold clone.

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

"How much would you pay for, lets say, a kidney transplant for your dog? How much would you pay for a neurosurgeon or a radiation therapy in case of cancer?"

Well, much like I'd do for a human...I'd first consider quality vs quantity of life. Given that the answer is quality...I'd spend as much as needed pretty much.

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

"Please tell me you don't also baby talk to your dogs. I have a 2 year old whippet. She is great and part of the family but she is ...... a dog. Not a person."

Not so much baby talk...but, I DO talk to my dog.

She does seem to try and listen and understand most of the time....

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cc the cloned cat.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

same 1000 KM to the north. Acctually it works. And I think the animal suffers less.

Re:Why?

[indi0144]

that was the admitance test for early south american guerrilla recruits.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the event a beloved child dies, would you not want a second chance?

Of course. But that's not the way that the world works and the replacement would not be the same creature.

Re:Why?

[Jeremy Visser]

Get a new dog, and you can keep your good memories of the previous dog untainted.

Says the SatanicPuppy.

Re:Why?

[Macrat]

If your cat mittens died,

Isn't it required to kill the cat before making mittens out of it?

Re:Why?

[alc6379]

Heck, bull baiting, the practice of tying a bull to a post, then sicking attack dogs on it, was once mandatory in Great Britain. The reasoning behind the practice was that baited bull meat was considered to taste better.

Of course, this practice was banned, but it just goes to show you that there's nothing new under the sun.

Re:Why?

[ColdWetDog]

Then get a dog of the same breed - behavioral traits are fairly inbred in dogs.

And just to point out something that seems to have dropped from the wayside here - THESE AREN'T TRUE CLONES. At least I'm pretty sure of that. Unless they've changed technologies, they implant a magically adjusted nucleus into an egg of ANOTHER individual. That egg has mitochondria which has DNA which has been implicated in gene regulation (look it up if you're interested).

A TRUE clone would have both clonal nucular (thank the FSM we can say that in jest) and mitochondrial DNA. This is close, but not cigar sharing material.

Not a clone! Not!

Re:Why?

[alc6379]

...You're not playing devil's advocate here, I know, but I do just want to point out there's a big difference between saving THAT animal vs. attempting to re-create a copy of that animal.

If given a choice between paying $150k for cancer treatment for my dog, or paying $150k for a clone of that same dog, I'd choose paying for cancer treatment, even if the dog didn't recover from it.

If after all of that, I'd get another dog from a shelter. There are plenty of other good companions out there right now without me having to go and create a new life on this earth.

Re:Why?

[syousef]

Then get a dog of the same breed - behavioral traits are fairly inbred in dogs.

Temperament varies wildly within a breed. Consider the number Labrador puppies that fail seeing eye dog training. Consider the amount of money people will pay for a show dog based on it's parentage.

And just to point out something that seems to have dropped from the wayside here - THESE AREN'T TRUE CLONES. At least I'm pretty sure of that. Unless they've changed technologies, they implant a magically adjusted nucleus into an egg of ANOTHER individual. That egg has mitochondria which has DNA which has been implicated in gene regulation (look it up if you're interested).

A TRUE clone would have both clonal nucular (thank the FSM we can say that in jest) and mitochondrial DNA. This is close, but not cigar sharing material.

That's just pointing out the current flaws and limitations of the technology. It is not addressing why people would want to do it, which is the question I was answering.

Not a clone! Not!

Happy to concede that the process is less than perfect and the use of the term "clone" might be misleading. It does depend on your definition of clone.

I'd love a clone of my current pet dogs to share with my infant son. (They'll be dead before he's old enough to appreciate them). Then again I also look forward to the adventure with a new dog (if my son grows up liking dogs), and I wouldn't mortgage the house to clone my dog.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why clone any Labrador Retriever when they are all the same, SLURPY-DUMB-AND-HAPPY! (Really, aren't all "labs" the same? I can't tell any difference from one to another.)

Re:Why?

[Teriblows]

bingo, people confuse things thinking all animals are alike. many birds do things like swallow whole fish all the time. they don't have the same kind of gag reflex we do. if you tried to swallow an equivalent size fish you'd choke to death. ducks and geese dont chew with their beaks:P the whole fois gras is cruelty thing is ridiculous and based on very limited understanding of nature.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know what you're thinking. But sometimes dead is better.

Re:Why?

[AngelofDeath-02]

Breeds themselves are already pretty genetically controlled to have tendencies one way or another.
My personal objection has more to do with how many are euthanized because people wont adopt them... It doesn't make much sense to clone a dog when so many good dogs will die because there's no place for them to live.

Re:Why?

[ChienAndalu]

Sorry, but I still don't believe you can equate pet life with human life.

If you went to a funeral of a 10-year old child, would you tell the parents "I know exactly how you feel, my poodle just died" ?

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

I don't do funerals.

Never been to one...

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, yes :(

I would never buy meat from a farmer that does that, but in some parts of the world they do truly sick things to the animals (like skinning them alive) because they think it makes the meat taste better.

One extremely popular food that could count as an example is Foie Gras. It's duck liver (though you can get Foie Gras from other animals but unless you specify what animal then duck is usually assumed)

That's only regionally correct, if at all.

Foie Gras without a qualifier would usually refer to Foie Gras d'Oie - Foie Gras of Goose - and the cheaper duck variant would be explicitly referred to as Foie Gras de Canard. However, in the American market the duck variant is more common and I guess that the above poster is correct for that market - that "Foie Gras" without a qualifier would refer to Foie Gras de Canard in the US.

Oh, and fried Foie Gras d'Oie is wonderful with fried duck breasts. Just a tip.

Re:Why?

[Rogerborg]

This is why I avoid discussions as to why I became a vegetarian.

Hello, it's ex-POW John McCain calling. As an ex-POW, I don't like to talk about my experiences as a POW, even though I was one. I don't know why non-POWs keep bringing up the issue that I, famous ex-POW John McCain, was a POW.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I thought you said that the Spaniels market. Mmmm, Spaniel. On a side note, I did threaten to roast our Black Lab on a spit. She should have been a Blonde Lab, she was stupid as dirt.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The genome means nothing to human emotions. Nothing at all.

I understand that this belief is something we'd like to be true and that might seem true - but it is unfortunately just plain wrong.

I can recommend Homicide by Wilson and Daly as some background on this topic; you'll find more examples all over the place if you go look. Trivially obvious other examples are the influence of smell on falling in love and the influence on beauty on attraction (and genetics on beauty).

A not so obvious example is the mother's brother effect from antropology.

All of these are well documented. They're just the simple examples off the top of my head. I expect there are lots more, since I'm not an expert in the field, but I expect you'll agree that they're enough to show that there is an effect. The only question is how large it is.

Re:Why?

[estarriol]

You're quite right, I should have said "This is why I avoid discussions as to why I became a vegetarian face-to-face, with people whose feelings I care about as opposed to random idiots on the internet who enjoy taking offence at anything."

Re:Why?

[e2d2]

Grow a sense of humor jerkie. I got 3 cats at home and treat them like little brothers. So go get ya shine box.

Re:Why?

[CarbonShell]

I agree 100%

Lost my share of friends, family and companions over the span of my life but I would not want to have the cloned.
Animal or human.

Just like single cell twins are not the same people, neither will a clone.

Think about it for a minute:
What if the person we love woke up tomorrow and was completely different person?

Or the reverse (and the ultimate test of love):
What if the person we love had an accident and was completely visually scarred (f.i. burn victim).
Would we still love them?

Yes, dieing sucks, but it is a part of life and we have to learn to cope with it.
If you cannot let go you should seek help.
Let go!
If you clone them you only show how much you disregard them by making their first life seemingly useless.

Life is not a game that can be start/stopped/restarted because something did not go as expected.

How selfish can someone be to create a life just for their own pleasure, regardless of how the life will be for the one created?

Life might just be the carbon shell we live in, but what makes us 'us' cannot be cloned.

If a hurricane destroys your house you can rebuild it, but it won't be the same house.
Living is like the furniture and your experiences are the pictures. They cannot simply be replaced or recreated.

Re:Why?

[CarbonShell]

No life is worth more or less then that of something else.
That is a slippery slope slide to Concentration Camps.

But I do agree in general with GP.
The actions to which 'supreme beings' will resort to puts even the wildest animal to shame.

Re:Why?

[mog007]

I think this whole idea of cloning a child vs cloning a pet is predicated on the alternative to cloning.

Instead of cloning a pet, you can save some money and go to an animal shelter, and get a pet that might even have the same appearance.

Instead of cloning a child, it's much more fun and better for the grieving process to just make another one.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was in Korea there was an English punk fanzine that run a phrasebook every now and again. One of the entries was "Dog eating savages!", clearly a handy phrase to know in Korean.

Indeed. It is important to be able to inform those savages if there is a hungry feral dog loose.

Re:Why?

[Mr. Slippery]

Insult to them? What does that even mean? You think they're in doggy heaven looking down feeling mournful over your desire to play god?

What, you're unfamiliar with the concept of "insult to memory"?

I don't believe in any sort of direct psychological continuity after death. But if you start cutting on, say, my grandfather, I'm going to get pissed.

Maybe when I die, one of my grand-kids might want to raise a clone of me... dunno. Might be what they want... might make them feel I was there again.

And what of the rights and welfare of the clone? Rather than being permitted to develop into its own person in a healthy and normal fashion, it will be pressured to conform to very specific notions of behavior and personality.

Re:Why?

[voseman]

If I had $150,000 laying around that I could throw away I would use it to clone the morons that cloned their dog and then I would take my new clones and the originals and throw them off a cliff.

Use your money for something noble instead of rubbing it in the faces of have nots your rich pricks.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, yes :(

I would never buy meat from a farmer that does that, but in some parts of the world they do truly sick things to the animals (like skinning them alive) because they think it makes the meat taste better.

One extremely popular food that could count as an example is Foie Gras. It's duck liver (though you can get Foie Gras from other animals but unless you specify what animal then duck is usually assumed) that has been artificially enlarged via force feeding the animal. Whether or not gorging is actually uncomfortable for the animal is debatable (I have heard plausible arguments from people claiming that fowl will actually self-gorge before migration, and anecdotes from farmers who claimed the animals actually LIKE it), but it has been banned in some parts of the world because the gorging is seen as animal abuse.

Geese are force fed, why didn't you pick goose? Ducks in the US are simply fed in the dark where they self-gorge, like their owners at a buffet. The fact you do not have to force ducks helps keep duck Foie Gras cheaper than goose.

If you want to talk about potential cruelty, pick goose or you are simply wrong.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

"A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?"

If you have to ask, then you couldn't possibly understand.

I dunno about cat people, but, as a 'dog person'...I can tell you that my animals really have become a part of the family. They aren't treated like 'dogs' or animals, they are really more just little fuzzy people that don't talk much in our homes.

Still, would you clone a family member?

Re:Why?

[joelmax]

Exactly. I got my cat from a shelter when she wa a kitten, had her 5 years now and it is just like having an impetulant daughter some days, and others its like having a nagging mother.. and others still its like having an incredibly loyal dog (She has some dogish mannerisms). When she dies, its going to suck terribly, but you know what, when it happens, I wont get her cloned, it just wouldn't be the same cat. Sure it would look the same... but it just wouldn't be the same cat and that would creep me out. Instead, I'll end up marching back to the same shelter, play with some more kittens, and take home whichever one picks me. I'd rather do something to help a cat/dog that is in need than to have a creepy clone of my cat that turns out to be crazy as opposed to cool.

Same plan for when I have enough living space for a dog as well.

Re:Why?

[FiveDozenWhales]

In the case of foie gras, the goose or duck is kept cooped up to prevent exercise or use of fat as fuel, and the force feeding is done to promote unhealthy fatty growth--in neither case does the actual discomfort contribute directly to the taste of the meat.

Re:Why?

[esobofh]

Because it's not right to "own people" - even fuzzy people that don't talk much.

I think the we abolished the ownership of people some time ago.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

If what you are implying is true, then wouldn't the GP be an expert in such matters?;)

Re:Why?

[Mr. Firewall]

For example, some cow farmers actually massage their meat with electric massagers....

Well, where I come from most of them massage their meat with the cow herself.

But my GF massages her meat with one of those electric massagers, and it definitely does make her more tender!

Re:Why?

[Golddess]

My thoughts similarly. You're not cloning the same loving individual that you shared part of your life with, you're cloning the biological creature that grew into your cherished companion.

I love my kitties, and I wish they could live forever, but having them cloned wouldn't produce the same loving individuals I'd come to know over the 10-20 years of their lives. Just like if you were to create a clone of Einstein or George Washington, they would not be the same individual that they were when they died. Memories can't be cloned (yet), so having my kitties cloned after death would be no different than adopting new kitties.

Re:Why?

[Golddess]

It depends on how you learned it I suppose. Whether or not this is actually a/the way to make Fois Gras (lets just say for the sake of argument that what I was told back in French class in Middle school was incorrect), if you were told that the ducks were force-fed until their livers explode, you'd probably think that cruel.

Re:Why?

[shutdown -p now]

No life is worth more or less then that of something else.

It's easy to say, but every now and then people get into situations where the decision is essentially between lives of two or more people. Unless the only course of action you personally consider for yourself in that case is throwing a coin to determine who lives and who dies (consider especially a situation when one of those people is a woman... or a child... or your mother), you have to be honest with yourself and admit that you do assign different values to lives of different people.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually just watched some anthony bourdain clips and came upon this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABeWlY0KFv8

Doesn't seem all that horrible.

Re:Why?

[againjj]

It would really be funny if it translated as "Dog-eating savages".

Re:Why?

[againjj]

Tortoise shell cats have different colorings due to environmental conditions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortoiseshell_cat

Re:Why?

[LunaticTippy]

You'll probably get around to it eventually.

Re:Why?

[Mr. Firewall]

If you went to a funeral of a 10-year old child, would you tell the parents "I know exactly how you feel, my poodle just died" ?

Why, yes! I said that just last week to my neighbors when their kid died right after he'd killed my beloved poodle.

Re:Why?

[Raenex]

No life is worth more or less then that of something else. That is a slippery slope slide to Concentration Camps.

I have this built-in immune system that doesn't agree with that. Even if you are a vegetarian you eat plant life to survive. How many bugs do you think died in the construction of your habitat?

Re:Why?

[abbyful]

Because dogs (and children) are "innocent", so it gets to us more.

And also we expect adult people to die in movies, so we're desensitized to seeing it, we even expect it in movies.

Re:Why?

[abbyful]

"Temperament varies wildly within a breed. Consider the number Labrador puppies that fail seeing eye dog training. Consider the amount of money people will pay for a show dog based on it's parentage."

Temperament shouldn't vary widely. Personality varies, but for the most part, temperament within a breed is pretty consistent (of course, there's the outliers, as with anything).

Certain breeds are known for being more high-strung and nervous, other breeds are known for taking everything in stride, some breeds are notoriously independent, etc. If all dogs had the same chance to be of various temperaments, we wouldn't have all the breeds we do now. Breeds were selectively created for certain traits, temperament being one of them.

Show dogs should also have the correct temperament for their breed. The purpose of conformation shows is to test the physical correctness of breeding stock. Physical correctness is only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to proper breeding, dogs to be bred should be also have the proper temperament for their breed, be screened for genetic health issues, and have working ability if the breed requires it, among other things.

Re:Why?

[duckInferno]

Fun related fact: the "Maine Coon" pet cats in World of Warcraft were renamed to "Black Cat" after someone complained about the use of the word "Coon" (it's a racial slur in america). I think the backlash from players was magnitudes greater than anything the complainant could have conjured (probably not even black, too).

I would...

[cayenne8]

If I had the cash...I'd do it for my dog. She's starting to get a bit older now, and I would definitely like to have another one of "her" when she goes...

Re:I would...

[BlueParrot]

If I had the cash...I'd do it for my dog. She's starting to get a bit older now, and I would definitely like to have another one of "her" when she goes...

Sorry, won't happen. Clones are not copies of each other any more than identical twins are the same people. Cloning a dog or cat will not give you a replica of the cloned animal because in addition to genetics the traits of an animal are very dependent on environment and even pure chance. As a rather extreme example there's not always correlation between the gender identity of mono zygotic twins. That is, it is perfectly possible, and has happened, for one twin to feel transsexual and desire a sex-change, while his or her sibling does not. It is only in movies that clones are identical copies. In reality there's a lot more to "who we are" than our genetic makeup.

Re:I would...

[LaurensVH]

Please note that even though you clone (ie geneticaly copy) an organism, you do not copy what you 'love'. There is no guarantee (in fact, it is exceedingly likely, sort of depending on who you ask) that many of the mannerisms that you've learned to recognize in your current dog will not happen in the 'new' version of it -- because those mannerisms were learned from a very specific set of events that can impossibly be reproduced. Bad human analogy: if you were adopted by a rich/poor family, you (same genetic makeup) would have a completely different life.

Re:I would...

[abbyful]

You can't clone personality. You would end up with a different dog. Same DNA, different personality.

You can't "replace" a living animal. You can get another one, but it won't replace the previous.

I would never clone my dogs, as much as I love them. They are individuals. When they are gone, I'll cherish the memories, and I'll make new memories with future dogs, but to want a "copy", I find disrespectful to both the deceased pet and the clone.

Arnold Schwarzenegger's First Post

[CompMD]

I'm looking for a golden retriever for my son, you can make one for me here at RePet, right?

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger's First Post

[ccool]

And I am looking for a pet Arnold, can anyone clone him?

I think Hollywood would want a few of him too.

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger's First Post

[pak9rabid]

I'm looking for a golden retriever for my son, you can make one for me here at RePet, right? GET ON ZE CHOPPA!

Fixed that for ya.

Would that be...

[rodney dill]

K-10 then?

Re:Would that be...

[$RANDOMLUSER]

K-9++

Re:Would that be...

[JCSoRocks]

I think it would just be a minor version change. So K-9.1

Re:Would that be...

[morgan_greywolf]

ADD 1 TO K GIVING K

Re:Would that be...

[dredwerker]

I think it would just be a minor version change. So K-9.1

more like K(n)

Cost is a factor

[hardburlyboogerman]

Of course I would like to get Sugar Byte back if something were to happen to her,but I could not afford a huge fee for doing so.

I'm barely able to keep myself alive as it is.

Amazing!

[poot_rootbeer]

Out of all of them, "Family Dog" was my favorite "Amazing Stories" spin-off show that was animated and had theme music by Danny Elfman.

RePet?

[Anonymous Coward]

The first thing I thought was 6th day...

The second thing I thought was "good, can we just clone cow flesh now instead of raising cows?"

Re:RePet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Suffering tastes good.

Re:RePet?

[orclevegam]

The second thing I thought was "good, can we just clone cow flesh now instead of raising cows?"

First a minor nitpick, what you're describing isn't cloning, but more accurately described as vat growing. Cloning implies you'd reproduce the entire animal which defeats the purpose as you'd still need to raise the cloned animal. On the topic of vat grown meat, it's currently not economically viable (or maybe even technically possible, I don't know, haven't really researched it) as you would need an entire support system to provide nutrients to the cells and carry away wastes while it's growing. Not to mention you'd also need to develop some sort of re-usable support structure to grow the meat on, and possibly an exercise system to ensure the muscle develops properly. Plus you would need a system to process and distribute nutrients for the muscle tissue.

In other words, you'd spend a lot of money and effort re-producing all the things naturally provided by the rest of the cow.

Re:RePet?

[karmatic]

In other words, you'd spend a lot of money and effort re-producing all the things naturally provided by the rest of the cow.

True, but it would remove some of the ethical concerns. If you take a few cells from me, I am not dead (nor necessarily harmed). If you were to grow that into tissue, then eat it - I am not harmed, and it lacks sentience, so you aren't killing anything, nor causing pain to something that can feel pain.

As a nice side effect, it could be legal to eat many things that otherwise really shouldn't be - endangered species, human, etc. There might actually be some money in it. Depending on the personal beliefs, it would also make meat available to some vegetarians, and some vegans. If the reason for not eating meat is the exploitation of the animal, a small tissue sample followed by a life of free-ranging would be acceptable to some people.

As for me, I eat meat - we have chickens, cows, a goat, etc. We eat eggs, dairy products, but I have no problem with eating meat. That being said, given the choice between meat that resulted in the death of an animal, and meat that didn't - I would choose the meat that didn't, even if it came at a (reasonable) premium. No, I won't pay $100/oz, but I would be willing to pay 50% more to reduce the amount of suffering involved in the process.

Also, if such a system were built - the nutrients could be more tightly controlled - would make certain types of changes (for flavor and/or nutrition) easier.

Exactly the same as the original, except...

[Fartypants]

evil?

Re:Exactly the same as the original, except...

[LMacG]

> evil?

Only if it has a goatee.

Re:Exactly the same as the original, except...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean dogee.

Uh oh

[eln]

The cloning didn't involve any ancient burial grounds beyond a deadfall from a pet sematary did it? If so, they might want to watch their backs.

What I'd name the dog, no matter the sex.

[Typingsux]

Dolly the dog.

Herman was before Dolly

[Anonymous Coward]

Herman the Bull was created 6 years before Dolly the sheep.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_(stier)

This American Life

[gEvil (beta)]

This American Life had a great piece on a cloned show bull a while ago. You can listen to the episode here (click on the orange 'Full Episode' link -- it's the second segment, so you'll need to skip ahead), or you can watch/rent/torrent/buy Episode 1 of the Showtime version of the show. Interesting stuff....

Its not the same pet, folks...

[tnk1]

It may look the same, but its not the same.

Heck, the pet may not even look the same, depending on if some of the factors in coloration are environmentally induced.

More importantly, behavior is very much a factor of the pet's environment. It certainly isn't going to know who you are without the same amount of work you'd have to put into a puppy or another dog.

I'm not totally against cloning technologies, but I wish people would invest in shelter dogs instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars to add another animal to the existing population. Your old pet had a good life with you, why don't you share that with a pet who never had the same chance?

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[SL1200MKII]

I completely agree with you. Millions of animals are put to sleep each year in shelters. Many of these animals come from irresponsibly breeders that do not see the value of life, but rather only care about making a quick buck. They could care less about what happens to the animals once they are sold.

When cloning becomes commercially viable on a larger scale, what is to stop unethical companies from producing more than just 1 clone? After all, it is more "efficient" to have the surrogate produce a litter of 6 pups. This brings the puppy mill industry to a whole new level.

FYI, the company is charging $180,000 to have a dog cloned. http://bestfriendsagain.com/order/index.html

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[ianare]

You could use the same logic for many other things :

• Why go to a fancy restaurant when so many people are hungry ?
• Why have a baby when you could adopt ?
• Why drive a SUV instead of compact when 90% of the time you are in it by yourself ?
• Why alienate your family working long hours, when you already have millions in the bank ?
• Why spend $10 000 on shoes, when some people go barefoot their entire lives ?

And in the end, the only real answer is : "Because it makes me happy"

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[sortius_nod]

In some ways an environment of "you're not like " said in a turse way would influence behaviour massively. The dog (or cat) would end up very very different. I would even go so far as to suggest temprement and personality would almost be polar opposites (giving encouragement & positive attention vs giving repremands & negative attention).

Cloning has it's uses... this is not one of them.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[MeBadMagic]

Simple really. I was going to post a reply to the OP, and saw yours. It would seem better as an answer here than a statement there.

Call me a kook, however, my loved dog has Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome....

She has done remarkably well in her 7 years. She is a wonderful dog. If I could have her DNA again, I would like to see how different she ~could~ be. Not better, different. I'd be curious to see if her dental problem shows up again. See how different our training could be without the damage control.

That would be my motivation anyway. Curiosity, and the chance to protect her more.

B-)

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[kungfugleek]

And in the end, the only real answer is : "Because it makes me happy"

But you also need the follow-on supporting thought: "And my happiness is more important than everybody else's."

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[mewshi_nya]

1) By nature, cloning a dog creates a new dog and eliminates the opportunity another dog could have. Eating at a restaurant, on the other, only deprives the establishment of food, food which the hungry masses wouldn't get in time anyway.

2) It's a biological thing to want to have a baby of your own (however, I really think more people on should be adopting)

3) Again, doesn't deprive anyone of anything material - only of clean air.

4) Because to some people, those extra 0s on the bank statement are primary, the kids and wife secondary.

5) Still doesn't deprive anyone of anything.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[hansamurai]

No one's happiness but my own is in my power to achieve or to destroy.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[D Ninja]

5) Still doesn't deprive anyone of anything.

I don't necessarily agree. If I go out and spend extra money in a month (say, on a vacation for example), I may not donate the same amount of money to charity/church/what-have-you. Of course, that does assume you donate money in the first place.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or because YOU THINK it will make you happy... but it won't.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[kartan]

I think the answer is: "because I'm a selfish asshole"

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[PitaBred]

Hell yeah! If it makes you happy, do it! Why care if it's "right" or not, or encourages horribly unhealthy perceptions, both societally and personally.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

That... doesn't really make sense. That's like saying any action you take will have no consequences on anyone else.

Taking it one step further, if I run down some kid's pet dog, I'm preeeetty sure their happiness would be affected.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[crndg]

I would be interested to hear some follow-up details as the dog grows. This would be an excellent opportunity to discover how much of a dog's "personality" might be genetically determined. It would be a poor scientific study, because Lancey's owners are far from impartial, and indeed assuming they raised the original, their methods may not have changed much. But wouldn't it be interesting to know if the copy chases his tail the same way, or has the same favorite food?

When our lab was a puppy, he would only turn around to the right. We couldn't, for the life of us, get him to turn a circle to the left. He outgrew it, but that's such an odd quirk, I wonder if a clone would do the same thing.

I don't wonder $155,000 worth. In fact, I'm in the camp thinking how much the local humane society could have done with that check. But since they chose to buy a clone puppy, I would be interested to know how it turns out for them.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Stormx2]

:( that's the most upsetting comment I've ever read.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

then you are weak or ignorant. Most people have plenty of control over other people's happiness. The reflective individual acknowledges this and treats this power with respect.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[shutdown -p now]

No one's happiness but my own is in my power to achieve or to destroy.

That is quite obviously wrong. You can help someone achieve happines for himself, and you most certainly can destroy someone's happiness, as well.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[aztektum]

Would this really make a person happy or simply "satisfied until...".

This is just another form of addiction. It's giving ourselves a temporary boost that needs to be refreshed by buying a second dog (cause knowing he has a playmate makes us happy) or perhaps a new television. We're all addicts looking for the next hit.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[rts008]

"When our lab was a puppy, he would only turn around to the right."

I don't really know about 'left/right-handedness' applying to dogs(don't see why not), but this is definitely the case with horses.
Most will show a marked preference for turning one way over the other.

It can be overcome, but does add another layer to the training involved.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[juancnuno]

It's the same pet like identical twins are the same person. Likely less so because at least identical twins tend to grow up at the same time in the same environment.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

No one's happiness but my own is in my power to achieve or to destroy.

Very sad this got modded to +4 Insightful.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[fprintf]

But the $10,000 on shoes goes to support any number of other people. Sure, it may not go *directly* to barefoot Africans, but it will go to support any number of people along the way. The same can be said for $80,000 rugs and gold plated commodes - the money doesn't disappear, it just gets redistributed differently.

Personally I am glad of this, as I draw my own livelihood from the productivity of other people. If they don't work and earn money, neither do I. For that matter, that is probably true of everyone unless they are homeless or a self-sufficient farmer living off the grid.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

It is the lack of the follow-up thought: "And my happiness is more important than everybody else's." that leads to the response thought: "Jerk!"

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

not to mention that adoption is *way* more difficult than screwing, managing to survive each other's company for the next nine months, and then finally giving birth. far less paperwork involved, and no background checks, etc. also, i suspect you can get financial aid with the costs of giving birth. for some reason, i would not guess that you get such incentives for adoption.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll go for the more direct "exactly!"

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Happiness" from such things is very temporary, and shallow. It's far more expensive, difficult, and less satisfying than the happiness you get from eliminating your attachment to material posessions, and cultivating compassion for all life.

Betting Pool on children now opening...

[jeko]

Now accepting bets for how long it takes before the first replacement child is cloned. If they can do a dog, they can do a kid, and the article reads just fine if you replace "our dog" with "our child."

I'm glad I lived long enough to see Dick Tracy's "wrist radios" and William Gibson's "matrix" become reality. I'm sorry I lived long enough to see this.

Re:Betting Pool on children now opening...

[discord5]

Now accepting bets for how long it takes before the first replacement child is cloned.

I can just see the slogan for the advertising already: Who needs Lassy ? When Timmy falls down the well, we'll clone him for $99.999,95.

Warning: Replacement Timmy may not be exactly like original Timmy. Do not feed replacement Timmy after midnight. Education not included.

Re:Betting Pool on children now opening...

[RockWolf]

I'm sorry I lived long enough to see this.

Easily fixed...

Same genes, different dog

[mschuyler]

Even if you did clone Fido(1), he wouldn't be the same dog any more than identical twins are the same person. Chances are, if he were parti-colored, he wouldn't even have the same spots. He also wouldn't have the same experiences as Fido(1). You are older and the unique experiences that made Fido(1) what he was are gone forever. In short, Fido(2), though he may look more or less like Fido(1), is not Fido(1) and never will be. If you simply must have a pure bred, go to the same breeder and get Fido(X) in the same genetic line as Fido(1) for a few hundred dollars instead of tens of thousands. It's a pretty expensive way to fool yourself.

Re:Same genes, different dog

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if you did clone Fido(1), he wouldn't be the same dog any more than identical twins are the same person.

If you travel around the world with a person for two years, you will have a very different person in the end. If you do the same thing with a dog, you will have the same dog.

And identical twins who have not yet reached intelligence beyond that of dogs, are indeed very similar.

Re:Same genes, different dog

[mschuyler]

Fido takes a year to travel around the world, sniffing Panda poop and kangaroo poop, meeting exotic dogs, eating different food, and you maintain it is the SAME dog after a year? Just because you can't tell doesn't mean the dog has experienced nothing. I maintain that Fido(1) and Fido(2) are going to be different dogs regardless of their genes. Whetehr it is the experience of havin small kids around the house with Fido(1) and no kids around the house for Fido(2) or traveling around the world, the two dogs will have different experiences affecting their personality and be no different than identical twins who experience life diffrently.

They probably just scammed them

[elrous0]

"Jim, find a puppy that looks like this one in the picture and we'll split $155,000."

Re:They probably just scammed them

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you can't find an exact match, just find one close enough and pick up a can of spray paint.

Re:They probably just scammed them

[Al Al Cool J]

That's why a thought the whole Dolly cloning thing was highly dubious. Sheep all look alike! Clone something that is obviously rare and unique, then you've got something to brag about.

Weird, I just watched

[supermegadope]

The 6th Day yesterday..... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0216216/

Alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a story about a somewhat different method of dog cloneing (Seattle PI):

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/397774_dogporn29.html

Extras

[conejito_andarin]

From the headline I read, I thought they were producing a line of cloned dogs for sale. If Lancey (TM) is such a great dog, why shouldn't everyone have a chance to own one? Even a few extra copies would sell out fast. On the "beloved" point, I can't see loving animals like people. People grow and change and love you in unexpected ways. I love my cats and dogs, but they aren't my family. They don't drive me crazy enough!

Re:Extras

[CannonballHead]

On the "beloved" point, I can't see loving animals like people.

Strange as it is, people tend to treat their pets better than their family. Dog does something "bad" and it is cute or somehow bad but usually the dog is treated sternly and nicely. Kid does something "bad" and gets yelled at.

Re:Extras

[Real1tyCzech]

The dog won't go to jail or cost the family fortune if he doesn't and gets caught by someone else...

Re:Extras

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the difference between how humans are expected to act and how we can communicate exactly what the issue is. With a dog, you can't really expect them to behave up to human standards, nor do they remember what it was they did 10 minutes ago that made you mad when you found out about it 9 minutes after it happened.

I think the dog lives only in the moment. Yell at them about something they did 10 minutes ago and all you do is confuse them.

Re:Extras

[PitaBred]

Amen. And that's why I don't like letting certain members of my family bring their dogs over. Or children. They can't figure out how to properly relate to or control either.

I wonder..

[Anonymous Coward]

..how many Fidos they tried this out on before they could tell the kids that Fido made it through the pancreas surgery.

It's a trip back to the family farm...

[clawsonb]

Man, I'm glad I made this treasure map to where my best dog ever was buried. Now I just wonder if the current residents will mind me digging up the yard...

You too?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you took the red pill, eh?

Er...wait....William who?

Um, yea

[PalmKiller]

Just don't make a copy of the copy

So the patents cloned a dog?

[Gerzel]

Wow I didn't know IP laws could get up and work in a lab much less do genetic/biologic engineering.

Re:So the patents cloned a dog?

[internerdj]

I knew that had to be good for something. Otherwise why would we have them?

Ummm

[FirstNoel]

I have a cat that nags and had a dog that scolded. Pets can give you just as much shit (literally and figuratively) as any other member of the family. But they keep coming back... Now they can keep coming back forever. Sean D.

Re:Ummm

[VoidCrow]

My dog used to scorn me for being so useless at chasing rabbits. Except when we used the the 4WD. Then, he was Rommel, and I was his tank driver.

Odie

[messner_007]

Maybe they could clone Odie, so Garfield would have two or three of them ...

I don't think so

[willoughby]

I think most dog owners feel the same way i do. I wouldn't take a million dollars for my dog, but I also wouldn't give you twenty-five cents for another just like her.

And a clone? No, thanks.

I just can't support this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me start by saying that I am an animal lover. I do enjoy dogs and cats, having had both. (well, maybe not so much the shedding of fur) I can understand caring very much for that pet and the unconditional love they give you back. But...

Any animal you clone won't be like the original. It won't even necessarily look like the original. They've found that out with cats already. It's not like you're making a photocopy of the animal. Genetically it may be the same, but physically and mentally it's a different creature. And what if something happens to this cloned pet? Do you go have it done again and get a second clone? I'd feel like I was cheapening the original by trying to make a perfect copy.

Besides, that $150,000+ could make a world of difference to the animals in the local shelter. Or any homeless shelter or charity of your choice would love that money as well!

Re:I just can't support this.

[SnarfQuest]

Do you go have it done again and get a second clone?

And if you do clone again, which one do you clone from? The original or the copy?

Didn't Dolly die of Cancer?

[MobyDisk]

Didn't Dolly die of Cancer? Have they solved that problem?

modular cows

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, you'd spend a lot of money and effort re-producing all the things naturally provided by the rest of the cow.

How about a modular cow system then?

You use a set of organs in a separate "body"to do all that support stuff, a simple electronic/mechanical system to provide "exercise", some plumbing between the organs and the meat, and you just harvest off a layer of meat every few months, if it can be made to regrow.

Chromosome pairs

[Idiomatick]

Oh wow this is a pretty big step. Dogs have 39 chromosome pairs whereas humans have a measly 23. So its quite the feat or so scientists boast. I remember seeing a documentary explaining we'd be waiting a looong time before dog cloning because of this. Sheeps by comparison have 27.

Hollywood youth, forever

[PolygamousRanchKid]

All those Hollywood folks seem to spend a fortune every year on trying to look young.

Why don't they just set up a pipeline of clones of themselves instead?

Starting to look your age? Time to replace yourself with the next one of you in line.

Sixth Day come true?

[ChessKnught]

Looks like the writers of "Sixth Day" (Schwarzenegger) are partial prophets. Welcome to "Re-pet".

Longer Living Pets

[GHynson]

Why are they wasting time on cloning? Spend time researchng ways of extending the life of a dog from 15-18 years, to more like 30-40 years or more.

As a twin.

[tdwMighty]

As a twin I find this ridiculous, sad, ignorant and just plain stupid. Obviously, having the same DNA as my brother in no way makes me the same person. This is no different. Why the hell don't people understand that? More science education and less time wasted on religion!

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

Either your a vegetarian or a hypocrite ... and I'm betting you eat meat.

Cat is just cheaper meat!

The cruelty isn't in killing them, but in HOW you kill them :D

mala mute?

[commodoresloat]

An evil person who can't speak?

Re:Why not?

[aliquis]

Why would it be so impossible that he's vegetarian?

I don't know if cats are necessary cheaper either.

/ Vegan

Wrong

[Thaelon]

The first commercial cloning happened back in August. And if you thought cloning a dog was odd, wait till you read about the crazy mormon-stalker-rapist-criminal-conspirator-minor-delinquency-contributor lady whose dog it was.

The source is here but dlisted really boils it down to the interesting bits for you if you do not mind the profanity.

Ahh, that explains Family Guy

[Anonymous Coward]

am i rite? Get it? They cloned Family Dog, the show to make Family Guy - olo right? You know the show I'm talking about - and if you don't then your a nub, gtfo.

Come with me if you want to live.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Repet" anyone? (6th Day reference in case you don't love Sir Govenator.)

Reality Check - Chance the Bull

[binarybum]

Anyone considering this kind of service should be required to watch or listen to "This American Life - Reality Check" the NPR show where a pet bull "Chance" was cloned. As much as we might miss a lost pet, I think in the grand scheme of things it's actually nice to know that this simply doesn't work - that the pet we loved was something truly unique and irreproducible.

dunno knoe abought dogs

[luther349]

never liked em cats are more intelligent. yes you could clone it it would look the same but i have to agree its personalty would be different. its like identical twins they have the same genome and looks but 2 different personalty's.

Worldwide license for US patterns ?

[snowtigger]

Was I the only one who found this ironic ?

BioArts has been granted the sole, worldwide license for the (US patents only) cloning of dogs, cats and endangered species.

So they have a US patent portfolio (that can only be enforced in the US) but provide a worldwide license ? What would stop me from building a competing production facility next their own in South Korea ?

I might have one.

[tkrotchko]

"I'm looking for a golden retriever for my son"

Well, you could get a golden retriever for your son, but I'd hold out for a golden retriever and a car, depending on if your kid is cute or not. Kids are worth a lot more when they're cute.

My dog is Puerto Rican

[Anonymous Coward]

We got him from a pet rescue program and he is from Puerto Rico. If we clone him, no Puerto Rican dog. The first 6 months of his life were spent there as a stray. He could hardly be the same dog. Kinda pointless.

Family dog? the psychodelic one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ho!! yes

Family dog: one of the finest late 60s rock club

but Grateful death, Jefferson Airplane and Santana will never play together again :-(

The Sixth Day

[Anonymous Coward]

RePet

That's all I have to say.

Liam Lynch

[Shaitan Apistos]

A musician/movie director named Liam Lynch had his cat cloned a while back by Genetic Savings & Clone.

He's had some interesting things to say about the differences and similarities between his original cat and the clone on his podcast.

Re:Money!

[Macrat]

But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?

Because some people have more money than they know what to do with.

Remember

[daveime]

Remember, a dog is not just for Christmas.

With luck, there'll be enough left over for Boxing Day.

Seriously though, why go through all the hassle of cloning an old family pet ? Are they expecting to get the same dog again next time ? Animals, like humans, are just glorified conditional response networks. Unless that dog is going to experience exactly the same things as the first one, and form the identical neural patterns, it WON'T be the same dog.

The same could be said for human cloning ... apart from a good source of compatible replacement organs, a clone will never be the same as the original.

Because

[celtic_hackr]

Well, you haven't thought this through. The reason you might want to clone your dog is if you have an exceptional dog. Genetics plays an important part in intelligence and behavior. While upbringing does also.

One the one hand, cloning makes sense. The dog has the desirable and known genetic build. While buying a new one, gives no guarantee that you'll get the same kind of genetics the original had.

One the other hand, if the original dog was born into and spent it's first 12 weeks living in the home of a responsible breeder and the cloned dog lived it's first 12 weeks in a laboratory with an uninformed caretaker. Then you'd certainly be off to a bad start in reproducing the original pet.

However, if the original dog came from a puppy mill, then cloning the dog in a laboratory could possibly be no worse, and you'll get a closer match to the original makeup of the original dog.

So, genetics matter and environment matters. Emphasis must be added to "early" environment matters. Certainly negative effects of environment can be overcome with proper training. An added bonus on cloning would be that mistakes learned with the original dog can be corrected with the cloned animal.

So your claim that cloned != same isn't necessarily true. It could be done with a high degree of accuracy and a great deal of planning.

Finally, a program could be developed to produce consistent personalities via cloning, by duplicating the environment in which the original dog developed. A process that could be applied to any cloned animal, including humans. Hopefully we will never go down that path.

How many imperfect clones were euthanized?

[xiphosuran]

This is the most important reason why cloning of humans is completely unacceptable.

"cloning mammals by nuclear transfer is still highly inefficient, with Dolly the only lamb that survived to adulthood from 277 attempts"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_(sheep))

Is the company that does the cloning being open about this aspect of the procedure? If they are trying to pretend that they can evaluate the embryos created by nuclear transfer and only bring the least damaged ones to term, they are making a preposterous claim. The problem of evaluating a DNA sequence for all possible DNA damage is fantastically complicated, probably formally undecidable in the Alan Turning's terminology.

How many copies of these treasured pets are living a few pain-racked days in a laboratory?

Re:How many imperfect clones were euthanized?

[Mr. Firewall]

This is the most important reason why cloning of humans is completely unacceptable.

Actually, there is one reason why human cloning IS totally acceptable, and it trumps all of your "not acceptable" reasons.

I once worked for a man whose secretary was the most babe-licious ever. OMG she was eye candy; I could have stared at her for hours if I could've gotten away with it.

Of course, she had a boyfriend. ALL the good-looking ones are already taken, and always by some asshole who has more money than you do. Damn.

I remember thinking that if I could just get a DNA sample... and if they made like 500,000 copies of her... maybe, just maybe, they would run out of rich assholes for her to date, leaving ME with a chance at one of them.

As I said, totally trumps all your reasons not to clone. Hell, I'd even settle for an "imperfect clone," depending on just where that "imperfection" might be....

commercial opportunities

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, they should start up a company that clones pets and call it... I dunno, maybe RePet!

Good for divorcees

[dukeofurl01]

I know lots of divorced couples that had a hard time deciding who gets the dog, now there's one less thing they have to argue about.

Re:Good for divorcees

[Mr. Firewall]

Hell, if she's hot, clone the ex! The new one doesn't have to know anything about the old one....

Meh...

[LanMan04]

I just don't see human cloning as that big a deal. A clone is exactly the same as an identical twin, except delayed.

Now, the treatment the clone gets for being a clone (notoriety) will fuck the kid up, but not the fact that he's a clone. What's unethical about it at the core? Just because all your babies aren't made from different mixtures of DNA is no big whup.

But I can see the temptation

[IdahoEv]

This is exactly what I will do when my puppy passes on - he is getting pretty old. He was a street rescue, and my next dog will also be a rescue (though more likely from a shelter).

However, I can certainly understand the temptation. I've had a lot of dogs, but none ever with such an ideal temperament as my current loyal companion:
    * Energetic enough to run and hike
    * Totally mellow the rest of the time
    * Never destructive / chewing of anything other than plush toys
    * Never slobbery
    * Doesn't lick
    * Very independent - with food and water I can leave him alone for even 2-3 days, much like a cat.
    * Very gentle. Extremely good even with children who pull his fur.
    * Not a barker at all.
    * Implicitly trusting of humans, never aggressive or fearful of guests.
    * Very polite - no begging for food (ever!)
    * He ask for attention/petting but give up quickly and lie by your feet if you're busy. (which is good, since I work at home).

This combination of traits I've never seen in any other dog or breed ... not even close ... and I've known dozens of dogs. He's a mix, and we're not sure of what - my best guess is 50/50 Malamute/Border Collie, but with none of the collie hyperactivity or neuroticism, and all of the malamute sociability.

This dog I would be seriously tempted to clone, if it were possible, or even establish a new breed. His temperament makes him a perfect pet for many kinds of people.

Bullshit

[Mr. Firewall]

And in the end, the only real answer is : "Because it makes me happy"

But you also need the follow-on supporting thought: "And my happiness is more important than everybody else's."

Excuse me, but in the examples cited in the GP (going to a fancy restaurant, buying expensive shoes, building wealth etc.) have nothing to do with diminishing anyone else's happiness.

And that's related to the reason why I'm getting such a kick out of reading this thread -- especially the naysayers. Hey, if you don't want a cloned dog, DON'T BUY ONE! If someone else wants one, it's no skin off of your ass. It's none of your business what kind of pet someone else wants; just move on and fuggettaboutit OK?

Not quite analogous...

[cromar]

There's nothing wrong with treating yourself to a fancy meal every once in a while. That isn't really analogous to paying $180,000 to have your dog cloned. And for the record, you shouldn't be driving that SUV, you should be content with your millions in the bank, and spending $10,000 on shoes is wrong too. There's a difference between "making yourself happy" though minor indulgences and "making your self happy" through wanton displays of waste and thoughtlessness.