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Hackers Clone Passports In Driveby RFID Heist

pnorth writes "A hacker has shown how easy it is to clone US passport cards that use RFID by conducting a drive-by test on the streets of San Francisco. Chris Paget, director of research and development at Seattle-based IOActive, used a $250 Motorola RFID reader and an antenna mounted in a car's side window and drove for 20 minutes around San Francisco, with a colleague videoing the demonstration. During the demonstration he picked up the details of two US passport cards. Using the data gleaned it would be relatively simple to make cloned passport cards he said. Paget is best known for having to abandon presenting a paper at the Black Hat security conference in Washington in 2007 after an RFID company threatened him with legal action." Apparently this is a little unfair — he sniffed the data, he didn't actually make a fake passport.

251 comments

  1. I feel deja vu.. from monday by uncledrax · · Score: 3, Informative

    Jules Verne called, he wants his time-machine back.

    Dupe story:
    http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/02/2224255

    --
    ----- The internet has given everyone the ability to have their voice heard equally as loud.. even if they shouldn't be
    1. Re:I feel deja vu.. from monday by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's how good these hackers are. Not only did they dupe a passport RFID, but they duped the news of their hack too!! Soon they will duplicate themselves and all kinds of deja vu is going to happen.

    2. Re:I feel deja vu.. from monday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      H. G. Wells called. He wants his story back.

    3. Re:I feel deja vu.. from monday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posted by CmdrTaco... it's not like he has any clue what goes on at Slashdot anymore...

    4. Re:I feel deja vu.. from monday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      circumventing an anti-circumvention device: not a good idea on video. makes the government's case quite simple.

    5. Re:I feel deja vu.. from monday by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Soon they will duplicate themselves and all kinds of deja vu is going to happen.

      All over again...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    6. Re:I feel deja vu.. from monday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thats how good these hackers are. Not only did they dupe a passport RFID, but they duped the news of their hack too!! Soon they will duplicate themselves and all kinds of deja vu is going to happen.

  2. Passport? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    They're not real passports and nothing was cloned. Nothing new.....

    1. Re:Passport? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      No. Nothing new until this is used to clone a passport that will withstand scrutiny by US Immigration officials. Now THAT will be news.

    2. Re:Passport? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Nothing new until this is used to clone a passport that will withstand scrutiny by US Immigration officials.

      You seem to have a lot of misplaced faith in these immigration officials.

  3. Why is this unfair? by jimwelch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The RFID is the most important part. Check the rest of the web for more info.

    --
    Never trust a man wearing a coat and tie!
    1. Re:Why is this unfair? by von_rick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True. Your computer records matching up is becoming increasingly more important than you actually showing up. A matching RFID would make things much easier.

      --

      Face your daemons!

    2. Re:Why is this unfair? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And who really cares? Are you more worried that someone will dupe your information so that when they do "bad stuff" in the overseas country you are in you get nailed hard? Or because it is trivial for a terrorist to rig a bomb on a vehicle to detonate only when three Americans are within range? If you haven't thought that last one through it is very scary. You could plant bombs thoroughly in buses, private vehicles, trains, etc., then watch the spectacle. Random acts of violence with no bomb expert anywhere near the scene of the crime before they blow.

      In the US you would likely get a coordinated response and vehicle searches to this sort of tactic, but if the devices are planted widely that can freeze transportation as every moving vehicle has to be inspected. In countries with a less coordinated response you wouldn't freeze transportation as effectively, but it would instill quite a bit of fear and having a longer lasting effect.

      But no, I'm sure you're right, the only issue is being able to duplicate someone's passport.

    3. Re:Why is this unfair? by Erikderzweite · · Score: 1

      With this technology widespread it will be so much easier for a nerd criminal to create an alibi or set somebody else up.
      Hell, if we had RFID's spread a couple of years earlier, we would have a stable in-kernel version of Reiser4 now.

    4. Re:Why is this unfair? by von_rick · · Score: 1

      Carrying a passport along with you on your way to committing a crime is a pretty dumb thing to do. Reiser is a pretty slick programmer, but he was quite a dumb criminal. Tracing a RFID trail to the crime scene would've alerted the detectives of an obvious set up. But I digress.

      --

      Face your daemons!

    5. Re:Why is this unfair? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      alibi, not frame...

      using RFID Reiser would have been able to get his passport RFID registered at some completely different place at the time of the murder, making it seem he was really at customs on LA-X rather then cutting up his wife into tiny pieces..

    6. Re:Why is this unfair? by jlarocco · · Score: 1

      That's just not true. Maybe *you* should check the rest of the web for more info. The RFID chip only stores a database key - everything else is grabbed from the database using that key. In other words cloning somebody else's RFID is pointless because then it'll be showing the original owner's photo on the security guy's computer display. If the security guy isn't paying attention, then that's a problem with or without the RFID.

      Also, the passport card isn't even required. With a regular passport you can destroy or remove the chip and use it as traditional passport. So if you're really that paranoid, skip the card, get a regular passport, destroy the chip and STFU while the rest of us enjoy the extra convenience. I really don't see why people are crying about this so much.

    7. Re:Why is this unfair? by orclevegam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's just not true. Maybe *you* should check the rest of the web for more info. The RFID chip only stores a database key - everything else is grabbed from the database using that key. In other words cloning somebody else's RFID is pointless because then it'll be showing the original owner's photo on the security guy's computer display. If the security guy isn't paying attention, then that's a problem with or without the RFID.

      Ok, so instead of grabbing the RFID of the first guy that walks past, instead they wait around until they see someone that fairly closely resembles them and take that RFID instead.

      Passports aren't even the biggest concern here though, it's more the move to put RFID into all manner if inappropriate items like credit cards, phones (which are then tied to credit cards), clothing (yes really, and not just for inventory tracking), and probably lots of other things we haven't thought of yet. It's one thing for them to clone your passport, it's another entirely for them to clone your credit card.

      Also, the passport card isn't even required.

      ... yet. Pretty soon it will be mandatory, and destroying the RFID chip in your passport will invalidate the passport and earn you a full body cavity search for your trouble no doubt.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    8. Re:Why is this unfair? by crabboy.com · · Score: 3, Funny

      Check the rest of the web for more info.

      I've been checking the rest of the web, and so far I've come up with almost nothing but porn. I don't see what that has to do with RIFD's...

      --
      The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money
    9. Re:Why is this unfair? by jlarocco · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      ... yet. Pretty soon it will be mandatory, and destroying the RFID chip in your passport will invalidate the passport and earn you a full body cavity search for your trouble no doubt.

      LOL! Tinfoil hat on a little tight today? You don't even even seem to know what the passport card is or you would realize why it will never be mandatory. It's a passport replacement for people who live near the border, who frequently need to travel accross the border. It allows you to get into/out of Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and a couple of Carribean countries. Making it required would just be silly. Get a clue.

      And about regular passports... Do you have any evidence at all to support the "destroying the RFID chip will invalidate the passport" claim? I think you're just making shit up to scare people.

    10. Re:Why is this unfair? by swillden · · Score: 1

      The RFID is the most important part. Check the rest of the web for more info.

      Particularly since trying to actually clone the card is pointless. The data retrieved from the card is all digitally-signed and includes the legitimate owner's image. So just copying all of that to a fake card won't allow you to cross the border under another's identity, unless you can change your appearance to be a sufficiently-close match.

      The real value in grabbing the data is for non-passport identity theft uses or for people tracking. Well, and RFID-hacker publicity uses. None of those require actually putting the data on another card (which is trivial in any case).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    11. Re:Why is this unfair? by Znork · · Score: 1

      cloning somebody else's RFID is pointless

      Not at all. Reading and storing peoples RFID keys would be a great way to make targeted IED'd. RFID passports and ID cards have to be the assassins or terrorists wet dream.

    12. Re:Why is this unfair? by orclevegam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't even even seem to know what the passport card is or you would realize why it will never be mandatory. It's a passport replacement for people who live near the border, who frequently need to travel accross the border. It allows you to get into/out of Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and a couple of Carribean countries. Making it required would just be silly. Get a clue.

      And about regular passports...

      You missed the point entirely. I wasn't saying the passport card would be mandatory, but that they'll try to make having a RFID enabled passport mandatory. That is, there' won't be a "regular passport", only RFID passports.

      Do you have any evidence at all to support the "destroying the RFID chip will invalidate the passport" claim? I think you're just making shit up to scare people.

      I'm not claiming it's currently illegal to do so, or that doing so will invalidate the passport currently, I'm just saying that's the way I think they'll steer it. If it becomes regular practice to destroy the RFID chip they'll pass legislation making it illegal to destroy it, and if it isn't a regular thing, doing so is guaranteed to earn you extra scrutiny at security checks. At the very least they could claim a fried RFID as probable cause for any search they feel like carrying out. That's just the way the government works, they pass a vague ill-defined law and when people object that it will have all kinds of side effects they get told "don't worry, we won't use it that way", which lasts all of about 10 minutes before yes, they use it in exactly that way.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    13. Re:Why is this unfair? by sirius-one · · Score: 1

      The RFID is just a key into a database that Padget has no access to. And the $250 figure is specious, as the device needed usually costs over $1000 on eBay (he bought one that was broken and fixed it). There are real dangers with the wider adoption of RFID, but this hack was more show than substance.

    14. Re:Why is this unfair? by profplump · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you just wrap your passport in tinfoil, so that the RFID chip only worked when it was open? Then it would still work for valid uses and would be undetectable the rest of the time.

      Seesh. I think governmental monitoring is a terrible idea, but people like you make it hard to take the real threat seriously.

    15. Re:Why is this unfair? by orclevegam · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you just wrap your passport in tinfoil, so that the RFID chip only worked when it was open? Then it would still work for valid uses and would be undetectable the rest of the time.

      Maybe, not sure how well that would actually shield it. That's not really the point though, as putting RFID in anything you wouldn't want to be publicly available is just plain stupid. It's not even a question of government monitoring so much (even though that is a concern) as it is stupidly misapplying a technology to situations it's not suited to. As someone else has commented even if you shield your passport/creditcard/whatever at all times except when you use it, you still need to take it out to use it, and during those few minutes its broadcasting to anybody with the right equipment in range. Is it so hard to imagine someone sitting in a parking lot at a store sniffing credit card numbers of shoppers (or more plausibly at the next pump over at a gas station), or someone sitting near the security checkpoint at the airport with a sniffer hidden inside their luggage? Would it really draw any attention if someone came in, sat down for a while, said "whoops, this is the wrong terminal" and then left?

      What people seem to be forgetting in all this is that RFID is designed to replace what is essentially a large publicly viewable label, so anything you wouldn't want glued to the front of your shirt in 60 pt. font for everyone to see, should not be done using RFID.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    16. Re:Why is this unfair? by Ironica · · Score: 1

      Passports aren't even the biggest concern here though, it's more the move to put RFID into all manner if inappropriate items like credit cards, phones (which are then tied to credit cards), clothing (yes really, and not just for inventory tracking), and probably lots of other things we haven't thought of yet. It's one thing for them to clone your passport, it's another entirely for them to clone your credit card.

      But what if RFID technology was used to ensure that your credit card would stop working if it was outside of your wallet for too long, for example? Or too far away from your driver's license?

      I think that, rather than creating a scary woo-woo they're going to get me scenario, ubiquitous RFID will actually dilute the effectiveness of privacy invasions, cloning, etc. I don't gather that these things broadcast a whole lot of data; if everything in your wallet has a tag, how does the cloner figure out what he's looking at and what to do with it? In a crowded place, how does he match people with tags?

      Besides... if everything everyone carries has an RFID tag, it will only take a few cloning/counterfeiting debacles before every wallet has built-in masking. As long as its only used for a few specialized circumstances, ThinkGeek will remain the only supplier of such things (and I want one in a more ladylike format!)

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    17. Re:Why is this unfair? by Ironica · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you just wrap your passport in tinfoil, so that the RFID chip only worked when it was open? Then it would still work for valid uses and would be undetectable the rest of the time.

      Maybe, not sure how well that would actually shield it.

      You could just follow the instructions for building your own sniffer/cloner, and test it yourself....

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    18. Re:Why is this unfair? by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The passport card is just a stop-gap measure for use until the DHS can bludgeon all the states into implementing the Real ID requirements. Once everyone with a driver's license is Real ID'd, they'll start adding the RFID (they've already specified a lot of information has to be added to the "MRZ" - machine readable zone, they just haven't yet specified that the MRZ has to be implemented with RFID). Once they get the facial recognition stuff working right, they won't need the reader to track you, they'll have a database of everybody's face, and will know where you are at all times. Check out Connecting the dots .

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    19. Re:Why is this unfair? by techess · · Score: 3, Informative

      You may not even have to find someone who looks all that similar. My husband and I just got our passports renewed and the new "theft prevention" measures makes id'ing someone by the photo difficult. There are so many wavy multicolored lines over the picture that it is very difficult to make out any distinguishing features. We can barely recognize ourselves.

      --
      Don't anthropomorphize computers. They *hate* that.
    20. Re:Why is this unfair? by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      It's probably illegal to do it anyway as it's defacing an official document. Your passport remains the property of the issuing nation at all times.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    21. Re:Why is this unfair? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      That doesn't quite work like that. Phone calls from cell phones in certain areas at certain times aren't enough on their own to convict or release anyone. It takes someone talking to the person to verify that they actually had the phone at the time otherwise it's just circumstantial.

      In other words, your cell phone being 2 hours away and making a call the night of a crime doesn't mean that you were with it. However, someone claiming they were contacted by you on the cell phone at that time or near it will show that you were with it. Anything else is only in support of some other evidence and doesn't prove anything in and of itself.

      Having a passport or credit card or anything with an RFID somewhere else when the crime was committed is not enough to establish that you were with it or away from it. Someone has to support that you were somewhere at the time. With something like credit cards, they ask the store clerk if they remember you, look at store video and anything else they can find. As far as cloning it to implicate someone else goes, they still have to establish that you had the RFID device at the time. And this gets even more complicated when they can find your RFID device in two locations at the same time. Your not going to go down for blowing up a federal building because they got your RFID tag from your passport at some reader when your at the border talking to a customs agent at the same time 2000 miles away.

      Furthermore, if everyone has RFID devices, what is going to make the authorities look at your tag over anyone else's? Certainly being in the area isn't a crime, so something would have to connect you to the act or crime. Something would also have to connect you to some other place if you where there too. All it can do is support other evidence that neither in their own right would necessarily prove anything.

  4. Who carries their US passport in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slim pickings methinks.

    He might have better luck sitting outside the international departures terminal(s) at the airport. I'm sure he won't attract much attention there.

    1. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Is his gear fast enough to sniff passports from cars moving at highway speeds? He could drive on public highways leading to the airport, or just sit in the parking lot of gas stations close to the airport.

    2. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Dammit, you've just ensured that next time I'm a little early to pick someone up from the airport, I'll be moved on from the nearby gas station's carpark by Homeland Security officers and forced to pay the exhorbitant rates for short term airport parking instead.

    3. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by thered2001 · · Score: 1

      Depending on the range of the device, he'd just have to drive around a residential neighborhood. But how many Americans actually have passports these days?

      --

      If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.

    4. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by dasunt · · Score: 1

      If he's traveling at highway speeds as well? I presume so, since the relative speed difference would be minor.

    5. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Grimbleton · · Score: 1

      What's the point? The US has enough climate and scenic diversity from one end to the other to make leaving the US unnecessary unless there's a specific thing you want to see outside of its borders.

    6. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      DHS reads /.?

      I didn't think they were that creative....

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    7. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

      I was thinking more about a narrow stretch where the oncoming lanes were really close, just across the jersey barrier kind of thing. You could drive around for a day and get within range of thousands of cars, maybe 10s of thousands.

    8. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, nobody wants to see Aztec pyramids or Roman ruins or Greek temples or Uluru or Victoria Falls or Stonehenge or the Rose Window at Chartres, etc.

    9. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Canazza · · Score: 2, Informative

      if it's RFID then the speed of the sources shouldn't really matter all that much. You're not going to get much doppler shift on a source moving 70mph.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    10. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      I believe he covered that under: "unless there's a specific thing you want to see outside of its borders". Anyhow, many people are quite content without seeing those things, and will go their whole lives without doing so.

    11. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's about response time of the tag, not doppler shift. If it doesn't respond fast enough you could be out of range already.

    12. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see goatse on my computer. Everything else pales in comparison.

    13. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by el_gordo101 · · Score: 1

      Anybody who wants to travel to Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean needs either a passport or passport card now where before a valid drivers' license and/or birth certificate was sufficient. So to answer your question, lots of people.

      --
      TODO: Insert witty sig
    14. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by dbcad7 · · Score: 1

      What's the point? California has enough climate and scenic diversity from one end to the other to make leaving California unnecessary unless there's a specific thing you want to see outside of its borders.

      It's surprising the numbers of people in the US that rarely leave their own city or state and are fat, dumb and happy. Yes the US has a lot do do and see, and it is not "necessary" to leave it.. Going to your local Oktoberfest, or going to Paris in Las Vegas can be fun, but nothing like doing the real thing. There is more to it than just climate and scenery.

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
    15. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, nobody wants to see Aztec pyramids or Roman ruins or Greek temples or Uluru or Victoria Falls or Stonehenge or the Rose Window at Chartres, etc.

      I thought that's what Las Vegas was for?

    16. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by SevenHands · · Score: 1

      My parents basement has enough climate and scenic diversity from one end to the other to make leaving my parents basement unnecessary unless there's a specific thing I want to see outside of its borders.

    17. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      Or Second Life, or Imax, or cable TV , or ...

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    18. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Grimbleton · · Score: 1

      That I did.

    19. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point? The US has enough climate and scenic diversity from one end to the other to make leaving the US unnecessary unless there's a specific thing you want to see outside of its borders.

      culture?

    20. Re:Who carries their US passport in the US? by thered2001 · · Score: 1

      -- assumes table 'world'

      begin

      declare @usculture varchar(max), @usactzn varchar(30)

      select @usculture = culture
      from   world
      where  interesting not in (
      'video game',
      'shopping',
      'ebay',
      'television',
      'porn')

      if @usculture is not null

        set @usactzn = 'ok'

      else

        set @usactzn = 'typical'

      select @usactzn

      end

      -- btw, did I mention I'm a DBA?

      --

      If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.

  5. There is a very good reason he didn't clone it. . by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Recall the man who made his own airline tickets
    not all that long ago?

    Recall the sh*t storm that brought about ?

    Folks are learning the best way to keep the
    lawyers and police off their back is to prove
    the point, but don't go as far as producing any
    thing illegal.

  6. Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by redelm · · Score: 3, Informative
    Seriously ... not tinfoil hats but around your wallet. These RFIDs seem to have greater range than advertised and that is a huge security risk for sniffing.

    Some sort of Faraday Cage will block RFID, or at least their power supply. I do not know whether ferromatnetics like iron and steel are more effective than non-magnetics like aluminum.

  7. How's it unfair? by jc42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The summary clearly says:

    During the demonstration he picked up the details of two US passport cards. Using the data gleaned it would be relatively simple to make cloned passport cards he said.

    Anyone with even minimal English fluency would understand this as saying that he collected the data but didn't do anything with it.

    We don't even need an automotive analogy, since the data was collected from one car by reading passport RFIDs in other passing cars.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    1. Re:How's it unfair? by furby076 · · Score: 1

      Stealing data, even if the person is not going to use it for anything malicious, can still land said person in dog shit land. What he should have done was use this on his and his friends passport. Maybe asked a few colleagues to help. But instead he collected the information of innocent bystanders. How would you feel if it was your info? How do you know this guy won't sell the information, leak it, or accidentally lose it? Now these people (hopefully they will find out it was them) will need to get new passports to be sure this guy doesn't have up-to-date info. Even worse these people may get flagged so the next time they try to board a plane they get the extra TLC from the TSA.

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    2. Re:How's it unfair? by Hyppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure what your definition of "stealing" is, but he certainly didn't deprive the people of their personal information.

      The RFID chips in the passports are designed to spew forth their data when asked for it. You can't accuse someone of "stealing" information that they read off a billboard, which is effectively how the RFID chips in these passports work. (I said effectively, so don't go down the tired road of debating which perfect analogy fits)

    3. Re:How's it unfair? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like taking a photo of a car and claiming you can now manufacture them.

    4. Re:How's it unfair? by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Stealing data in this case being akin to reading a sign glued to someones forehead.
      If you write your social security number on your chest and walk around the public streets you have no right to bitch if passing researchers write it down as part of a study into how retarded it is to walk around with your SSN on your chest.
      They didn't hack anything, they didn't crack any security. They read something that was being broadcast to all and sundry.

    5. Re:How's it unfair? by blueskies · · Score: 1

      I think their data was being shouted across a crowded room...unencrypted.

      Maybe they shouldn't be broadcasting their data if they care about it being private?

    6. Re:How's it unfair? by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      might land them in dog shit land, but it's not illegal in the US. IE I look at the company web page all the time to match a photo with a persons name, if you carry something that willingly broadcasts your name and photo that's your business, all these guys did was let you know thats what your doing carrying a passport that is not held securely closed, or wrapped in a conductor.
          The FCC is the only one allowed to impose laws against wireless communications (in US), and outside the cellular bands "as long as the communication is not divulged or does not `benefit' the interceptor."

      So collect all the names photos, etc of everyone you can, business cards, etc. As long as you don't start using those in a criminal manner, your good.

    7. Re:How's it unfair? by BuhDuh · · Score: 1

      Actually from the video three RFID keys can be seen, and unless I'm wildly mistaken, no actual private, identifiable data was gleaned. [That is if the screen is actually showing data captured - we never see the radio/software in action]

      --
      Enlightenment? It's just a flush in the pan.
    8. Re:How's it unfair? by SausageOfDoom · · Score: 1

      Copying information? Piracy!

    9. Re:How's it unfair? by Khyber · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      See, that's the problem with just about every 7-digit UID here on Slashdot, total lack of reading comprehension PLUS total lack of knowledge about the technology being discussed.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    10. Re:How's it unfair? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Does the RFID tag provide any security, though? RFID is just a barcode. If I were designing such a system, the RFID would contain a database key, and which would be used to look up a photo and other important information in a centralized passport database.

      So cloning a passport would be pretty worthless, because you can't change the photos and such in the database.

      Didn't they do it this way?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    11. Re:How's it unfair? by rts008 · · Score: 1

      Actually, five numbers total, but only three were passport cards.

      If you had listened to the audio, he explains that one number is his bosses card (he said he was not allowed to have a card of his own...he did not say why), and the other two cards were the two he scanned.

      There are also two other numbers that he said could be any RFID chip, but were not the passport cards he was hunting.(top two numbers on his display)

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    12. Re:How's it unfair? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beware, the k1dd13z have mod points, too! :-(

    13. Re:How's it unfair? by jc42 · · Score: 1

      This is like taking a photo of a car and claiming you can now manufacture them.

      Good start at an auto analogy, but we can do better.

      It's more like taking photos of passing cars, and showing the world that you can capture information such as the license number, the make and model, the colors of various parts of the car, and so on. In your press interview, you point out that this would enable various people to build an auto that looks exactly like yours, including a fake license plate. You'd probably admit that you didn't capture any vehicle ID numbers, but since those are visible through the windshield, you could get that info if you could walk up to the car with your camera. All this would enable someone with a good auto shop to buy a car from a dealer and doctor it so that it would pass as your car in any inspection. This dup car could then, for example, be left at a crime scene to implicate you in the crime.

      This is purely hypothetical, of course ... ;-)

      It is sorta funny that people get so excited about someone showing that they can capture information from a device that was designed to broadcast the information. I sorta wonder what sort of world they live in, that they'd be surprised that such a thing was possible. How will they react when they learn that their government has been installing such broadcast equipment in things like passports and other such ID gadgetry? And that the interception hardware is being installed in retail stores all over? This is just going to shake a lot of people's world views.

      It reminds me of a cartoon I saw recently, in which one person described his equipment that intercepts TV shows out of the air and displays them on a screen, without paying any cable subscription. Another character opined that this was "piracy" and was illegal.

      Earlier today, while I was driving my car, I listened to some music that was similarly captured out of the air without me paying anything at all. The music was decrypted, and broadcast through speakers in the car. This was all done by some electronics that were installed by the auto dealer. I can hardly wait to hear what the RIAA will say when they hear that such equipment is sold openly in this country. And I can imagine the flame war that'll follow my admission that I know how to get and install such music-pirating hardware.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    14. Re:How's it unfair? by instarx · · Score: 1

      Anyone with even minimal English fluency would understand this as saying that he collected the data but didn't do anything with it.

      Actually, no. It implies he didn't use it, but nothing in that sentence actually says he didn't.

  8. Protective Sleeve by Jamie's+Nightmare · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Passport Card comes with a protective sleeve lined with foil on the inside designed to prevent such an intrusion.

    Per usual, security usually fails because of the user.

    --
    "When you see a unixer brainwashed beyond saving, kick him out of the door." - Xah Lee
    1. Re:Protective Sleeve by clickety6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The protective sleeve only works if you never have to open the passport.

      Of course, you might want to open the passport to, say, actually use it as ID. Or maybe just to let something read the RFID chip...

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    2. Re:Protective Sleeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Passport Card comes with a protective sleeve lined with foil on the inside designed to prevent such an intrusion.

      Didn't they already show that tinfoil hats don't work?

    3. Re:Protective Sleeve by houghi · · Score: 3, Funny

      The thing is very small. I have embedded it in a pilots cap, that way I have an alibi that I was elsewhere when I actually am somewhere completely different. The governement things they are smart, but I am one step ahead of them.

      Be explaining more later, but there is a knock on the door.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    4. Re:Protective Sleeve by qazwart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Making security difficult and then blaming people for its failure is no solution.

      For example, computers could be much more secure if people change their passwords every month and passwords must be a string of at least 120 random letters. Except that everyone will write down their password or never log out or let their computer go to sleep. You now have your nice super-duper security protocol all set, but your computer is less secure than ever because you've made it impossible to use.

      How many people will use that sleeve if you have to struggle with it every time you have to show your passport? How long will that sleeve last? How vulnerable do people understand their passport to be? Do people even understand that their passport could be read while riding in a taxi?

      A better solution would be to put this "sleeve" inside the passport. The pages where the RFID chip is on should be the sleeve. When the passport is closed, the chip is protected. The chip can only be read when the passport is opened.

      Of course, that's even if this type of security even works.

    5. Re:Protective Sleeve by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Passport Card comes with a protective sleeve lined with foil on the inside designed to prevent such an intrusion.

      Per usual, security usually fails because of the user.

      I don't know about the Passport Card, but the US Passport comes with no such sleeve.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    6. Re:Protective Sleeve by Shadow-isoHunt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually the sleeve tends to make the passport stay partially open and act as a parabola, amplifying the signal from a distance.

      --
      www.isoHunt.com
    7. Re:Protective Sleeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as you never take the passport out of the sleeve, your ok. This, of course, defeats the purpose of a passport, since you can't take it out and show it when travelling, but atleast it's safe.

    8. Re:Protective Sleeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      neither did my UK-issued passport (Peterborough office, England,September 2008)

    9. Re:Protective Sleeve by Cynonamous+Anoward · · Score: 1

      I can confirm this as well. My fiance just got a passport (received in the mail two days ago) and it came with neither a sleeve nor any kind of warning that this kind of attack was possible and needed to be guarded against.

      Three cheers for the brilliance of modern man. We can make tiny chips that transmit information from several feet away, but we can't figure out how to make "basic security procedures" work.

      --
      "The GPL is viral by design, like any good religion."
    10. Re:Protective Sleeve by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      1) FYI, US passports it's not a sleave, it's a metal cup that will enclose the rfid chip when closed tightly.
      2) California has a dual purpose rfid passport/drivers license that doesn't have this protection.

      It was demonstrated that the metal cup in the us passports gives almost no protection if the passport opens even slightly. Which it always does when not held shut (ie placed in a pocket or purse, with out a rubber-band or similar holding it shut.)

    11. Re:Protective Sleeve by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      True, but why the hell is the data not encrypted. I've worked with security RFID cards in the past, and I saw encrypted communications at least a decade ago, that something as important as a passport should be responding to queries in plain text is just insane.

      Moreover, exactly how useful is the RFID tag for a passport? The entire point of a passport is that you have to present it at the borders and have it verified by a, hopefully, well trained person examining it. If you need to have other data in it, why not a barcode? Speed-wise it's only slightly slower to hand the passport to the guard who will hopefully spot the low end copies, and then the guard runs the passport barcode under a laser array to get the other data.

      And a barcode is much harder to swipe than an RFID tag which will respond to any reader which interrogates it. As demonstrated, the RFID tag info can be swiped covertly from a distance with basic off the shelf parts and a small mistake in storage by the user. For a barcode, it would at least require a good camera and catching someone with the passport out and open. Still not fool proof, but nothing is, it can only be more fool resistant.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    12. Re:Protective Sleeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The passport card does have a foil sleeve. And if I understand correctly the newest RFID passports are foiled on the inside of the covers so they can only be read when open.

    13. Re:Protective Sleeve by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I believe the foil sleeve is actually built into the binding. My girlfriend got a new passport, and the cover and back are a lot thicker than the old passports. It seems that there is some extra layer in there.

      I haven't tested the efficiency of the new passport design, but I'll be getting a passport carrier that is lined with foil.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    14. Re:Protective Sleeve by sjames · · Score: 1

      So, if the user takes a security measure that was never before required, the RFID is only slightly less secure and convieniant than a barcode from the '70s or a magstripe from the '60s?

      I suppose that makes the bonehead that thought this up look merely depressingly stupid?

    15. Re:Protective Sleeve by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Actually the sleeve tends to make the passport stay partially open and act as a parabola, amplifying the signal from a distance.

      I think that was an attempt at a funny. But the Passport card is a flat card like your driver's license or a credit card. It's designed to be more convenient to carry for people crossing the border by land or sea. People who do that tend to live near the border, so cross frequently, and a regular passport is kinda bulky to carry with you all the time. The passport card will fit in your wallet like all your other cards.

    16. Re:Protective Sleeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's already true. When the passport is closed, it's not able to be read... then the geniuses went and designed a passport that WILL NOT STAY CLOSED on its own. Seriously. Try it. Set down a passport, it will open up enough on its own (due to the binding and paper rigidity) to leak out the RFID information. A rubber band solves the problem. Way to go, Federal Government. :(

    17. Re:Protective Sleeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't try to walk through security with it. It'll set off all the metal detectors I've been through. You'll still have to take your passport out of its case to go through security.

    18. Re:Protective Sleeve by Shadow-isoHunt · · Score: 1

      Nope. The standard passport (not the card type) has a foil lining in the jacket, which makes it stay open. Renderman's covered this at HOPE, Shmoocon, and Defcon. It's really bad. Look for his "How do I pwn thee, let me count the ways" talk.

      --
      www.isoHunt.com
    19. Re:Protective Sleeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many people will use that sleeve if you have to struggle with it every time you have to show your passport? How long will that sleeve last?

      How often do you have to show your passport?

      I lived just on the border and had to cross the border every day for work. So I had my passport in my pocket for ~2 years. I also rode a bike to work. So it's been soaked in sweat and jostled. I would have loved a protective sleeve. I'm sure the sleeve could be made to last. My passport survived. It's frayed and all markings on the outside is worn off, but the inside is fine.

    20. Re:Protective Sleeve by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      The passport card does have a foil sleeve. And if I understand correctly the newest RFID passports are foiled on the inside of the covers so they can only be read when open.

      Then why have an RFID chip in there at all? What is the advantage?

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  9. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by jo_ham · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was going to post this too. A simple solution would be to make a passport holder that blocked the RFID signals, that you could purchase if you wanted to be sure your details weren't being scanned from afar.

  10. Unfair?? by GerardAtJob · · Score: 1

    Sniffing is actually a good way to get the data... it's not unfair at all... What is a shame is the RFID company that sued him... instead of working on a solution with him.

    --
    I can't call that English ;-)
  11. Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by Bearhouse · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a very frequent traveller, (including to some fairly scary places), I always keep my passport on me. I've stuck some plastic tinfoil (use an emergency blanket) inside the wallet pocket where I keep the passport. Works a treat. Why do this, well:

    1. FTA:

    Using the data gleaned it would be relatively simple to make cloned passport cards he said. Real passport cards also support a âkill codeâ(TM) (which can wipe the cardâ(TM)s data) and a âlock codeâ(TM) that prevents the tagâ(TM)s data being changed.

    However he believes these are not currently being used and even if they were the radio interrogation is done in plain text so is relatively easy for a hacker to collect and analyse.

    2. What information can they get? Well, depending on the passport type, at least your picture, and sometimes your fingerprints too.
    See:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

    And all this while you are having a drink at a roadside café with your passport 'safely' in your pocket...

  12. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 1

    How did you test this to make sure?

  13. Unfair for what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Unfair because he didn't make a fake passport? What are the editors gonna say when he DOES make an illegal fake passport? That too is unfair because he didn't actually attempt to fly with it to prove it would pass the passport security checks?

    He got the data. He can write it back into another cloned RFID chip. Good enough I say to prove the point that it can be done. No need to go further, I'm sure the gov't already wants to silence him, don't give them a good ripe excuse to do so!

  14. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by martijno · · Score: 1

    Well, depending on the passport type, at least your picture, and sometimes your fingerprints too. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

    US Passport card != ICAO passport

  15. People, we have tools to solve problems like this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bam! Problem solved. Nothing more to see here folks, let's move it along.

  16. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

    A simpler solution would be for the U.S. government to stop paying taxpayer money to embed RFID chips into passports. That saves money and eliminates the risks to everyone, not just the tech-savvy.

    I wonder how much money the government would save if they just stopped doing everything that is stupid. (I realize that in order to do that Congress would have to agree on what constitutes stupidity, and agreeing on things ain't their strong suit. Still, I wonder how much money.)

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
  17. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by dlaudel · · Score: 3, Informative

    Thinkgeek actually makes a passport holder that blocks RFID signals. http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/910f/

  18. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And not only passports, I just won a fight with my credit card company (Chase) about their use of RFIDs in their new credit cards. I refused to carry them and came close to canceling the account before they finally sent me a new card without one. By that time I had two useless cards with the RFID chips in them, so I stuck them in the microwave to see what would happen. It was spectacular. A couple of seconds and they burst into flame! And to my surprise, there was an embedded loop antenna in the cards that extended most of the card's length and about half the width. Someone could have read that card from a hundred meters with even simple equipment. Oh, and the icing on the cake: every time I called about this issue they tried to sell me extra "protection" against identity theft. I think it was "only" $9 a month.

    BillyDoc

  19. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by MollyB · · Score: 1

    Yes, but your linked page also states

    Availability: [ info ]
    Out of stock. (Est. 1-3 Weeks)
    [ Email me when available ]
    This product is not available
    for purchase at this time.

  20. Forgery is illegal.. how is it unfair ? by brufar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apparently this is a little unfair- he sniffed the data, he didn't actually make a fake passport.

    Of course he only sniffed the data and didn't make a fake passport.. If merely sniffing the data proves your point, why would you subject yourself to penalties for forgery ?

    U.S.C. Â 1543 provides:

    Whoever falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, mutilates, or alters any passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, with intent that the same may be used; or

    Whoever willfully and knowingly uses, or attempts to use, or furnishes to another for use any such false, forged, counterfeited, mutilated, or altered passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, or any passport validly issued which has become void by the occurrence of any condition therein prescribed invalidating the same

    Shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

    I certainly would have stopped at successfully sniffing the data. besides all a terrorist has to do is rig the bomb so it will automatically go off when it detects a pre-specified number of US RFID passports in the vicinity.. Now, don't you feel that RFID in your passport has made you more secure ?

    --
    far...out
    1. Re:Forgery is illegal.. how is it unfair ? by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      What about the "with intent that the same may be used" qualifier? Making a forgery doesn't seem to be illegal, as long as it's not used.

    2. Re:Forgery is illegal.. how is it unfair ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I certainly wouldn't want to test that in court..

      "Yes I went through extremes to counterfeit it, but I was never going to use it honest !!! "

        I just don't think they would buy that as a defense no matter how true it may be. remember you are presumed guilty until you spend a shitload of cash to plead to a lesser charge.

  21. Security threat by grolaw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Imagine how easily US Citizens can be found in a crowd. I wonder if the RFID "lighthouse" in my passport will put me at a higher risk than other nation's citizens?

    1. Re:Security threat by vlm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Imagine how easily US Citizens can be found in a crowd. I wonder if the RFID "lighthouse" in my passport will put me at a higher risk than other nation's citizens?

      RFID passports are the ultimate tool for terrorists. You have to wonder if the government people pushing them are sleeper cell agents or something. Maybe just good ole americans but taking bribes from terrorists.

      In the old days they set off IEDs using switches. Follow the wires back to they hidey hold and shoot them. End of terror threat.

      Then they moved to cell phone (a most impressive "ringtone"). With some cooperation w/ the phone company, you track down the caller and shoot them (only the stupid ones of course, the smart ones smash the caller phone seconds after the callee phone goes boom and both will have clean records)

      Now you just build a mine that waits for a passport RFID. No need to decode fully, just, is there a passport signal, if so kaboom. No way whatsoever to stop them anymore.

      You're doing a heck of a job, american passport design department! Heck of a job stacking up american corpses I mean.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Security threat by powerlord · · Score: 1

      The one problem with this type of mine is that RFID requires energy.

      Most RFID tags do not just actively broadcast, they are passive devices that only transmit when you hit them with a signal.

      This means:
      1) Your mine now needs a much bigger power source (depending on how long it needs to broadcast looking for an RFID).

      2) It is BROADCASTING A SIGNAL which might make it very easy to find (once you know to look for it).

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    3. Re:Security threat by NoisySplatter · · Score: 1

      Sure, the RFID enabled mine could probably be considered a terrorist's wet dream. Think about it for a bit though.

      It's going to need to be inconspicuous and run off of battery power. Because of these requirements the antenna is going to be less than optimal and it won't have much power at its disposal. If you compensate and let it draw lots of power it won't have much run time.

      It's also going to need a logic package to analyze the signal it's getting back from the tags and determine if the situation is explosion worthy. This also needs power, further decreasing the run time.

      You will never get the components back in the event of a successful detonation, so there's the cost factor of the ingredients. Every time one is used that's going to be a few hundred dollars of equipment going with it.

      Basically, it would be way easier to keep using the current method with human observation. The RFID bomb is too impractical.

      --
      In Soviet Russia meme tires of you!
    4. Re:Security threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine how easily US Citizens can be found in a crowd. I wonder if the RFID "lighthouse" in my passport will put me at a higher risk than other nation's citizens?

      RFID passports are the ultimate tool for terrorists. You have to wonder if the government people pushing them are sleeper cell agents or something. Maybe just good ole americans but taking bribes from terrorists.

      In the old days they set off IEDs using switches. Follow the wires back to they hidey hold and shoot them. End of terror threat.

      Then they moved to cell phone (a most impressive "ringtone"). With some cooperation w/ the phone company, you track down the caller and shoot them (only the stupid ones of course, the smart ones smash the caller phone seconds after the callee phone goes boom and both will have clean records)

      Now you just build a mine that waits for a passport RFID. No need to decode fully, just, is there a passport signal, if so kaboom. No way whatsoever to stop them anymore.

      You're doing a heck of a job, american passport design department! Heck of a job stacking up american corpses I mean.

      So what you are saying is that with RFID a terrorist could plant a mine and it wouldn't go off until a passport signal was close to it?

      Kind of like the way your run-of-the-mill standard mine waits for an object to trip the device with pressure before it goes off, except with a "normal" mine the person is in direct line of fire because of how close they must be to trigger the mine before it goes off?

      I think an old school mine would work better and do more damage to the intended target. I don't think you were modded "interesting" for the reasons you think.

    5. Re:Security threat by adolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're missing the point.

      It doesn't need a very large power source. It's still a landmine, and it needs to be very near to its target to have maximum effect. So, use weight or inductance or whatever to trigger the thing, not to explode, but to look for RFID tags. The rest of the time the added parts can be powered completely off.

      The antenna isn't really much of a problem. RFID is generally UHF, which penetrates stuff pretty well, while still high enough in frequency that a surprisingly high amount of antenna gain can be contained within a very small package.

      And the point is this: You can plant it on a roadway, and avoid killing the locals, but still have a fair chance at killing civilians of whatever RFID-toting nationality you choose. It's like a smart bomb for terrorists. And so, much like a cruise missile, it doesn't matter if it is expensive.

    6. Re:Security threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't seen, imagined, or heard about a situation you're talking about, but it does appear to be somewhat easily doable --- which is kinda alarming.

      I keep wondering what was wrong with the old method? I also wonder why its so hard, with democracy at stake, to count our votes by hand.... But I'm not being influenced by people with money, so that might have something to do with my lack of understanding.

    7. Re:Security threat by Perf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Except...

      How do you know the person with the RFID passport is an American or a fellow terrorist who replicated a RFID passport?

    8. Re:Security threat by NoisySplatter · · Score: 1

      My point was that the "Keep It Simple Stupid" rule still applies. I've seen people get blown up by their own bomb they were trying to plant. Not a suicide bombing, just a big fuck-up.

      It's far less complicated to just keep an eye on the bomb and detonate manually. You can avoid killing the locals even better that way because barring a malfunction you have complete control. Also, with manual detonation if someone finds it you just blow it up.

      --
      In Soviet Russia meme tires of you!
    9. Re:Security threat by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      2) It is BROADCASTING A SIGNAL which might make it very easy to find (once you know to look for it).

      If it broadcasts continuously or just frequently enough to be noticed. Instead it stays silent most of the time, and when it does transmit, it can receive the RFID data and detonate far faster than you can react if you detected the signal.

      So even running a drone vehicle with 500 US passport RFID tags on board ahead of your convoy won't guarantee that the road is clear.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    10. Re:Security threat by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't need a very large power source. It's still a landmine

      And generally installed outdoors where there's a very large fusion power source accessible all day long. They make receptors for this power source that are so small that they fit in pocket-sized computing devices!

      Of course, they're already quite willing to blow up cell phone batteries, so....

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    11. Re:Security threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're doing a heck of a job, american passport design department! Heck of a job stacking up american corpses I mean.

      <paranoid>Maybe that's the plan? Oh noes, a few more Americans have died, now we have to invade Iran!</paranoid>

    12. Re:Security threat by grolaw · · Score: 1

      Parse the data stream for "american."

      I'd also expect that a directional antenna with a directional RF signal squirt could pick people out of crowds - and if mounted on a sniper rifle......

    13. Re:Security threat by digitalsolo · · Score: 1

      So, just douse the area ahead with RFID routinely (or send something automated through) and you'll keep popping all their bombs.

      Seems like an easily removed mine to me.

      --
      Just another ignorant American.
    14. Re:Security threat by forkazoo · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is that with RFID a terrorist could plant a mine and it wouldn't go off until a passport signal was close to it?

      Kind of like the way your run-of-the-mill standard mine waits for an object to trip the device with pressure before it goes off, except with a "normal" mine the person is in direct line of fire because of how close they must be to trigger the mine before it goes off?

      I think an old school mine would work better and do more damage to the intended target. I don't think you were modded "interesting" for the reasons you think.

      The issue is that while an old school mine could do more damage to whoever stepped on it, there's no particular justification for expecting that it was the intended target. If you want to be sure to get an American in a city full of your countrymen, you don't want to use a standard mine. You'll just kill your own side, and probably never actually hit an American. The issue with an RFID passport sensitive mine is that you can have it only blow when an American walks by. You could even configure it to trigger only with a certain threshold of Americans.

      And, you don't need them to physically step right on a small object like a mine. And, since you don't need any physical contact with the target, you don't need to have your weapon sitting out in the open where somebody can see it. You can hide it much easier. You don't need your own people to be near the bomb when it goes off like if you wanted to have somebody with a remote control watching for an American.

      I don't generally get in a huff about silly threats, but IMO RFID triggered mines in foreign cities targeting Americans would be a reasonable tactic. You need some power, but an RFID reader can run on pretty low power. You can probably get substantial lifetimes on battery. Worst case scenario - just plug it in. I'd expect that sweeping for an RFID reader would be pretty damned difficult, given the low power levels involved, and the fact there there will be similar legitimate equipment in the city as well.

    15. Re:Security threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RFID passports are the ultimate tool for terrorists. You have to wonder if the government people pushing them are sleeper cell agents or something. Maybe just good ole americans but taking bribes from terrorists. ... Heck of a job stacking up american corpses

      Isn't it time for your medication?

  22. The biggest risc is not cloning by chrisarn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But the fact that you could use this technique to drive around and look for American citizens. Maybe combined with triangulation and there is your kidnap victim...

    1. Re:The biggest risc is not cloning by kdubb1 · · Score: 1

      You don't need triangulation; for RFID to work you have to be somewhat close. Add to that the ability to access the holders picture (which is apparently possible) and now you are fairly close to the person with a high quality image of their face. Shouldn't be too hard to find them.

    2. Re:The biggest risc is not cloning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's simpler than that. You don't need a specific photo. Just look for the one wearing a baseball cap, a jogging suit and crocs.

    3. Re:The biggest risc is not cloning by Builder · · Score: 1

      Why bother with kidnapping ?

      As I said at the time when the UK and the USA introduced these, they've just made their shitizens very attractive bomb targets - just set your bomb to only go off when a UK or USA passport is within reading distance.

    4. Re:The biggest risc is not cloning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean looking for overweight, white people with a sense of entitlement isn't easy enough?

    5. Re:The biggest risc is not cloning by Ozymandias_KoK · · Score: 1

      Because kidnapping is a source of money for continued operations, that's why.

  23. Proof of concept though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if he didn't go all out making a passport (which would get him in a world of trouble), he showed proof of concept for getting the data and how simple it was to do so.

    If I build this device and go sit outside an airport, I won't pick up most passports due to the RFID chips being "blocked". I don't think that's hard to imagine. But if I'm looking to steal data, all I need is that 1% (or less) to have their RFID passport "open".

    I understand the want of the RFID chip in a passport. The guard can easily scan it and pull up all relevant data he needs on me. But there still needs to be a second verification of some sort in place.

    It's important to remember, no security is flawless. We can just do the best job we can with the tools we've got.

  24. recycle by daxia · · Score: 1

    just use one of those innocuous bags or envelopes that hard drives and PC boards come in. They block the signals pretty well since they block static electricity, they'll block the signal as well. Unless the "cruiser" uses a signal strong enough to penetrate, which would mean that it would probably be detrimental to the person holding the passport, too, it might give them away. (As if the giant power supply wouldn't.)

    1. Re:recycle by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Probably not. They're only slightly conductive (it doesn't take much to drain off static), and do not represent an effective Faraday shield or bulk attenuator.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  25. Re:There is a very good reason he didn't clone it. by bytethese · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, they moved on from cloning RFID tags to cloning
    tags!

  26. European Union Passports by miknix · · Score: 1

    The new standardized EU passports have digital biometric information on them too. Although I don't think it is RFID.

    Last time I used my passport, I had to specifically show the first page (where my photo is) faced down to the reader. Other page/orientation combinations didn't work.

    So I think they read the information by infra-red. I didn't Google, it's only a guess.

    1. Re:European Union Passports by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1
      The reason you had to show the first page was because the security key to read biometric data from the the chip is in the additional characters tacked onto the Machine Readable Zone line with your name.

      The encoding of the tag data is spelled out in ICAO Doc 9303, Parts I, II, III, which used to be downloadable. Now you have to buy them. Humm....

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  27. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    I have such a wallet that I bought from Ebay. To test it I put my cellphone in and called it. The phone rang just like it should. Is there a better way to test the effectiveness of these wallets?

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  28. More details by Muad'Dave · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The information he read was from an EPC Class1 Gen2 encoded UHF tag. It was encoded as a Global Document Type Identifier (GDTI-96). The Company Prefix is 0893599002, and the Document Type is 1. The serial numbers of the documents are there, but I'm not going to post them. I don't have access to the GS1 Company Prefix database, and it's not searchable here. - anyone else have those mappings?

    It is trivial to program an arbitrary tag ID into a blank Gen2 tag - I do it all the time wrt DOD-encoded tags.

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  29. Why do passports need RFID? by Logical+Zebra · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What is the point in putting RFID into passports other than to make them easier targets for cracking?

    Why not just use a smart card similar to the Common Access Card (CAC) used by the U.S. Department of Defense? Those things can store a lot of data, are very easy to use, and cannot be hacked remotely via RFID equipment.

    --
    I have a bad feeling about this...
    1. Re:Why do passports need RFID? by swillden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why not just use a smart card similar to the Common Access Card (CAC) used by the U.S. Department of Defense [wikipedia.org]? Those things can store a lot of data, are very easy to use, and cannot be hacked remotely via RFID equipment.

      The chips in passport books (not cards) ARE the same sort of device that's in the CAC. The old CAC cards are contact-only, which doesn't work well for a passport book because it would be difficult to build a reader. The CACs are being replaced by PIV cards which are dual-interface (contact and contactless).

      Other than the contact vs RF interface, though, these so-called RFIDs in passport books (not cards) are exactly the same sort of technology as CAC cards. The chips have plenty of storage and provide cryptographic authentication capabilities.

      It appears that a different, longer-range technology with no cryptographic authentication requirements was used for the passport cards.

      Don't get one. Get a passport book. It costs a little more, but it can be used for visiting countries other than Canada and Mexico, and it doesn't have these security issues.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  30. A politician needs to consult an engineer by Demonantis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The sin cards used in cellular phones use an algorithm to confirm identity. The network will transmit a number that is then manipulated to form a new number by the phone. The number is transmitted and compared to what the network was expecting from the individual the phone is claiming to be. If they match then the person is who they say they are. The algorithm is impossible to duplicate without having the sin card and brute forcing to find the algorithm(still next to impossible). The credit card industry is now introducing this because it makes it impossible for someone sniffing the data transferred to use it productively.

    1. Re:A politician needs to consult an engineer by Erikderzweite · · Score: 1

      I also heard there are bombs which react to people's brainwaves. Now if one of THOSE is deployed, it will be very scary.

      Probably nothing to worry about if you are of US origin though. And to disarm a high-sensitive version you can always call George W. Bush and tell him tere are salty crackers inside -- chances are, he'll break it in no time.

    2. Re:A politician needs to consult an engineer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Duplicated sim cards is a major problem. If you needed to physically steal the sim to duplicate it, it wouldn't be, as you could just use the stolen one instead. Besides, the stolen one would be locked when the owner notices his phone is missing.

  31. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by jo_ham · · Score: 2, Informative

    A cellphone has a powered transmitter, and a boosted receiver with a specialised antenna. An RFID chip must rely solely on the radio energy it receives to power itself up and transmit back, so I'm not sure that a cellphone is an adequate test.

    The signal power you're talking about for a phone is going to be so much higher, and likely at totally different frequencies.

    I think the only way to test it effectively would be to see if the RFID reader at the airport still works with the wallet, assuming the person working the desk doesn't mind you testing it out.

  32. -1, Wrong by u38cg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Security doesn't fail because of the user; if the user is getting it wrong then it is bad security. Theoretical security is (in principle) not hard. Practical security is very hard indeed, and easy to get wrong. Is there any reason this card needs RFID as opposed to a standard credit-card style chip which requires physical contact?

    --
    [FUCK BETA]
    1. Re:-1, Wrong by speculatrix · · Score: 1

      a well designed security system will take typical users into account, e.g. two-factor authentication, to avoid security breaking by stupidity... but it can only mitigate some of the problems unless the user wants to cooperate with the security.

    2. Re:-1, Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't say hard when you mean difficult.

    3. Re:-1, Wrong by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is there any reason this card needs RFID as opposed to a standard credit-card style chip which requires physical contact?

      You can't expect government workers to have the motivation to slide a card into a reader. Next to the reader is the best you're gonna get. It's in their contract or something.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:-1, Wrong by natoochtoniket · · Score: 1

      s there any reason this card needs RFID as opposed to a standard credit-card style chip which requires physical contact?

      Yes, of course there is a real reason. It's the same reason as in many other government procurements:
      The company that makes the chips wants to sell a hundred million of them to the government for $100 each. The government bureaucrat who made the decision also owns the company, and wants to transfer the $10,000,000,000 to that company. That's a real reason, indeed.

  33. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Ioldanach · · Score: 1

    Like the one at Thinkgeek?

  34. San Francisco? by fulldecent · · Score: 1

    If you want results, try it in Washington DC.

    --

    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

  35. It's not about the passport data. by Animaether · · Score: 1

    I don't think that Mr. Paget was trying to make a point for "hey, look, Passport data!" at all. In fact, he states in his video himself that all he got were the unique IDs for the RFID, which have a prefix which indicates whether it is, say, a passport.

    What I got from his video - and which is a perfectly valid argument against RFID *in general* - is that he now -has- that unique ID. Presumably, you are the only one with your (passport) ID. Next up, link that to an RFID scanned at the very same time.. except this time it's just some grocery store's RFID. It doesn't come with encryption up the wazoo - why would it.. it's just for you to get grocery 'discounts' and for them to know wtf a person may be buying throughout periods of time. But instead of a store ID that correlates to name data somewhere in their database, they decided to just store the name right on the card itself.

    Now you have a name to go with the ID from the passport. Congratulations, you can now track not just an ID, but a person.

    Yes, I know, you're still 'only tracking that one RFID chip', and sure.. it could be on somebody else's person. Again, though, with a (passport) ID - how likely is that?

  36. EPIC FAIL, Taco by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    Proof once again that the "editors" don't even read Slashdot any more. Dupe from yesterday, Taco. Yesterday.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  37. Re:The kill bit testing by Technician · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How did you test this to make sure?

    In a link in the old article was the full testing. In a nutshell, they cloned some Washington Drivers licenses into the same chip. Then tested sending the kill command at low power, when there is not enough power to complete the operation, the chip reports a low power comman fail. After the power needed to produce low power fails and kills, it was tested on real licenses to see if the kill was enabled or protected by a PIN. It is unprotected.

    Here is the info;
    PDF alert http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/staff/bios/ajuels/publications/EPC_RFID/Gen2authentication--22Oct08a.pdf

    See table 4 in the PDF for the kill bit testing on Washington State Drivers Licenses.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  38. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RFID blocking wallet --> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/8cdd/

  39. Proof of concept is enough by thethibs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apparently this is a little unfair- he sniffed the data, he didn't actually make a fake passport

    Perhaps he wanted to avoid going to jail? This is a case where it's sufficient to show that a forgery is possible, without breaking the law and actually doing it.

    --
    I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
    1. Re:Proof of concept is enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, in California, just sniffing the data is enough. Its illegal if you're not in law enforcement to sniff RFID data in public. If you go to the Register and read the original article you'll see a link to an article about the Governor signing the law into effect in October.

    2. Re:Proof of concept is enough by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      actually, in California, just sniffing the data is enough. Its illegal if you're not in law enforcement to sniff RFID data in public. If you go to the Register and read the original article you'll see a link to an article about the Governor signing the law into effect in October.

      That may be, but the political fallout from making anything out of this would be unpleasant at best. That's particularly true given that he's basically provided considerable justification for the law in question.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  40. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just replying to confirm that the ThinkGeek wallets DO, in fact, work as advertised. I realized this after trying to leave my office's parking lot by fruitlessly waiving my newly-acquired RFID-blocking wallet (with parking pass inside) at the entry gate's sensor.

  41. Story title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why make up a story title whose claims are unsupported by TFA? Nothing was 'cloned' here. And the 'cloning' that is mentioned in the summary refers to the RFID chip, not the passport as a whole. Does Taco not understand the difference, or does he see his role as editor in making stuff up? Neither possibility is very flattering, IMO.

    1. Re:Story title by Technician · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why make up a story title whose claims are unsupported by TFA? Nothing was 'cloned' here.

      The cloned chip article is here;

      http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/staff/bios/ajuels/publications/EPC_RFID/Gen2authentication--22Oct08a.pdf

      It was on pasport and Washington Driver license chips.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  42. Re:There is a very good reason he didn't clone it. by dwarg · · Score: 1

    It was a poem you insensitive clod!

  43. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by swillden · · Score: 5, Informative

    I always keep my passport on me. I've stuck some plastic tinfoil (use an emergency blanket) inside the wallet pocket where I keep the passport.

    Note that you're talking about something completely different.

    The US passport CARD is different from the passport BOOK which you use in international travel. The passport card only works when traveling between the US and Canada or Mexico; it's not accepted anywhere else.

    If your passport BOOK is a US-issued one, you don't need the tinfoil because it's already built into the cover. Even if it weren't, the BOOK requires a cryptographic authentication using a key derived from data printed on the inside of the book, so someone has to either see the inside of your book or guess the data.

    The CARD does not require cryptographic authentication and has no closeable cover.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  44. Changing passwords by thethibs · · Score: 1

    For example, computers could be much more secure if people change their passwords every month

    Really? What happens on day 32 that I need to change my password to prevent? What threat cannot be realized in a month, but can be realized in two?

    The idea behind changing passwords is to have a new password before the current one can be broken by a determined attacker. The current reality is that a weak password can be broken in hours, and a strong password can't be broken in anyone's lifetime.

    Changing passwords monthly (or daily for that matter) is not effective if you use weak passwords and it's not needed if you use strong passwords.

    --
    I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
    1. Re:Changing passwords by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      If you're using a strong password that is compromised by methods other than brute-force discovery, changing it on a regular basis reduces the window in which the attacker can access the system relatively undetected.

    2. Re:Changing passwords by thethibs · · Score: 1

      This opens up a cascade of conditional probabilities.

      What's the appropriate strategy? Should I assume that my password is compromised "by methods other", distinguishable from magic, the day after I change it, and choose my password change interval to match my anxieties about how long someone might have access to whatever the password protects?

      What's the probability that "methods other" will compromise my password within N days? Are we looking at a Poisson distribution or normal? Give n that it's compromised, what's the probability it will be used without being detected for M days?

      As you can see, this is all very confusing and how do I know that a month is a good time between changes? It could be woefully inadequate or grossly pessimistic.

      --
      I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
    3. Re:Changing passwords by CKW · · Score: 1

      No shit. Considering how full most production server logs are of "permission denied" errors because users *normally* mistype their passwords at the ssh and sudo prompts, I argue that, in practice, this does nothing to help admins notice intrusions earlier. No actual intruder would keep hammering away with the wrong password. Only users do that, because they KNOW they know their own password, and they must have just mistyped it.

      A better method of noticing intrusions is to SHOW THE USER when and where they did things, and let them tell you - "hey, I wasn't here last night at 2am, why were my credentials being used"? That and audit pattern matching. "SoandSo doesn't have access to the HR systems, why are there login attempts? SoandSo doesn't work the midnight shift, why are there login attempts?" etc.

      Would someone who is in IT Security please confirm or deny that, IN PRACTICE, regularly changing passwords has clearly and unequivocally exposed an intrusion?

      I've never heard of it. Sounds like something a senior beaurocrat thought up. "Hey, I betcha this is more secure, let's do it and call it a best practice."

      Sounds like "false security for show", we all know just how fond senior beaurocrats are of "for show" vs "EFFECTIVE IN PRACTICE".

    4. Re:Changing passwords by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      Should I assume that my password is compromised "by methods other", distinguishable from magic

      Don't be an ass. There are plenty of other ways to acquire a user's passwords than trying "joe123", "joe124", etc. These can include keyloggers on public terminals, users who like to write their passwords down, social engineering, alternative attack vectors that expose passwords on an unsecure system, etc.

      As you can see, this is all very confusing and how do I know that a month is a good time between changes? It could be woefully inadequate or grossly pessimistic.

      Or... it could be a best guess compromise that balances usability and security.

    5. Re:Changing passwords by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      I've never heard of it. Sounds like something a senior beaurocrat[sic] thought up. "Hey, I betcha this is more secure, let's do it and call it a best practice."

      The senior "beaurocrats" at the NSA trump your security credentials.

    6. Re:Changing passwords by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Also, when confronted with having to change passwords on a regular basis, most people will configure their passwords to reflect how often the are required to change, and how many passwords are needed before reuse.

      I worked at a place that required new passwords every month, and the service calls increased to have passwords reset by people who couldn't remember their password they set two weeks ago.

      So the helpdesk was instructed to give them this idea: Use the following as an example only ....

      mY$up3r$3cr3tPa$$word0902

      Where 0902 equals the current year/month. The problem is that this kind of Password Convention doesn't solve the "change password monthly" problem because only two digits need to change each month, and two only need to change each year. This gives you the same basic password with lifetime reuse, and doesn't make anything any more secure.

      If you make something difficult, the workarounds end up exposing the silliness of requirements.

      MY suggestion for passwords are as follows. Set up Security level passwords.

      1) Low level. Use something simple to type, easy to modify (see example above), and is easy to remember. I share this password with wife/kids etc. e.g. mypassword0902. Used for meaningless "online" crap.

      2) Moderate level. Use something slightly more difficult to type. My wife might know this one. Used for meaningful online / moderate secure stuff.

      3) High Level. Use something that is not prone to dictionary style brute force. I usually use acronyms for sentences, obfuscated with the odd symbol or number. I only have one. Used for Secure things like banking. Nobody know it but me. The only way it will be compromised is if it is saved as plaintext by my bank's db. If thats the case, the bank has more problems than I do.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    7. Re:Changing passwords by CKW · · Score: 1

      Well come on, provide a bloody reference then! nm, page 19 of some huge *policy* pdf. No, that couldn't have been produced by bureaucrats, could it?

      Still outstanding are the real world cases where it's actually been useful in catching intruders. All I hear of it doing is causing people to keep their passwords written down, or form slightly-more-complicated forms of non-repeating but clearly linearly progressing passwords.

      > beaurocrat [sic]

      Damn, I've *never* been able to learn how to spell that one right, despite how often I used it. Came close this time though, finally remembering that it's got water in it :)

  45. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

    To test they can't read it? Simple, asked the guy at the airport to try and read my passport while it was still in the wallet.

  46. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by miserere+nobis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...except when you pulled your passport out of the holder to use it, and got it scanned not only by the customs agent, but by the guy sitting on a chair nearby stealing your info, who knows that the airport is a great place to come and do that. Seriously, why would they think it is a good idea to put your data into a form that broadcasts over the air? There are lots of good uses for RFID, and I can't see how this is one of them.

  47. Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Relying on the end user for security is a bad idea. It is very easy for example to overestimate the user's intelligence. In practice people often simply don't understand what security issues there are and what to do about them, even after being told of said issues. And if they do, it is often very hard to understand the implications, not just because it's hard, but also because the consequences can be out of reach of most people's imagination. This then leads to the security issue sinking on the user's priority ladder, causing the user to disregard it in favour of, say, convenience. And even if you can make them grasp all that, you've still got to remember that the end user probably comes in contact with lots more products, each of which may have something associated with them to be mindful of, security related or otherwise. Can you really expect people to juggle all that in their heads all the time? I think even highly intelligent people will unavoidably have a security lapse every now and then if you rely on them to be mindful of it all the time.

    1. Re:Mod parent up by ROU+Nuisance+Value · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quite. And in a more general sense: Can (we) geeks in general PLEASE stop referring to users as "stupid" simply because they are NOT AS DEEPLY INTO THE SAME SHIT WE ARE?! I'm highly intelligent (recorded IQ over 160), and frankly, I HAVE OTHER STUFF ON MY MIND when I'm traveling (like "Where's the freakin WC?", and "After 19 hours in the air, I'm hungry and tired and miserable."). For dear FSM's sake, if there is anything wrong with security design -- or product design in general -- all over the Earth it is this same ignorant, even STUPID, attitude on the part of the designers.

    2. Re:Mod parent up by ElAurian · · Score: 1

      Damn right!

      Incidentally, Killing Time OWNZORS Nuisance Value all the way.

  48. *US Passport Cards*, not real passports by lobsterturd · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's absolutely worth noting this is about cloning US Passport Cards, which are completely useless outside the US, not real passports.

    Passport Cards use a simple RFID system (EPC) where the chip simply spits its ID number out.

    Passports, on the other hand, require a reader to authenticate by passing a hash of (passport number, date of birth, date of expiry). I don't think that's nearly enough information to ensure security, but at least it's better than nothing.

    1. Re:*US Passport Cards*, not real passports by HikingStick · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's also important to note that real U.S. passports actually have shielding (effectively, a Farraday cage) built into the covers so that the RFID chip is only able to be powered and transmit when the passport is opened.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
    2. Re:*US Passport Cards*, not real passports by The+Salamander · · Score: 1

      How are they completely useless outside the US?

      They are valid for land and sea travel between the US and Cananda/Mexico.

    3. Re:*US Passport Cards*, not real passports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to remember there being some testing of this that indicated that:
      A. if the cover wasn't completely sealed, they could be picked up using normal RFID equipment.
      B. If the cover WAS completely sealed, a big enough antenna could penetrate the casing and trigger the RFID tag regardless.

      This was on slashdot a while back so I may be remembering things wrong.

  49. Signing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't they just put a little cpu in there to add some random numbers (maybe a timestamp) and sign the whole message - changing every minute or some such interval?

  50. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by slushdork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I believe the article is talking about passport cards , and not about passport books . It's quite a bit harder to read RFID data from a passport book since "the passport cover contains a radio-frequency shield, so the cover must be opened for the data to be read."

  51. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would require we as humans stop doing stupid things. Putting on makeup in a car, talking on a cell phone, having sex. All done in a car moving at highspeed usually.

  52. FTARD ALERT - HE ISNT CLONING! by Phizzle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He is just skimming IDs, not cloning or even collecting any information of worth. Its no different than some retard driving around with a wifi scanner collecting SSIDs and MACs for a bunch of WPA2 networks - its not the same as getting into the systems behind them. I guess I am new here, but I expect this kind of cheap overblown title from trash like Wired, not from /.

    --
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
    1. Re:FTARD ALERT - HE ISNT CLONING! by swilver · · Score: 1

      I don't know, but I'm still not happy about anyone with some equipment being able to find out my name without even having to ask for it. Atleast encrypt it.

  53. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by ubercam · · Score: 1

    My province, Manitoba, has just come up with these ID cards that will let you cross US land & sea borders. They're apparently credit card sized, but a bit thicker, and work on RFID. Supposedly the RFID chip only contains a unique identifier. If that's the case, an attacker would have to have physical access to your card to clone it, because the unique identifier would do nothing.

    The province includes a protective sleeve which must be removed to be read by RFID readers at the border crossings. Even the envelope they mail it to you in has RFID protection. Obviously their consultations yielded a bunch of people who were concerned about this, not to mention the Privacy act and other considerations.

    These are only for people without passports, and are not valid for air travel, or entry into any country other than the US.

  54. How secure is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What kind of encryption do they use? Do they just unlock the chip, or is the actual data encrypted? Can I build my own passport reader to see what's stored on my passport?

  55. MOD PARENT UP by Bryansix · · Score: 1

    NT

  56. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's draw a line between "stupidity" and "selling off the entire human race into slavery."

  57. Re:There is a very good reason he didn't clone it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the post is also a poem?

  58. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by cadrell0 · · Score: 1

    I have a passport card and they give you a foil lined sleeve to keep it in.

  59. -2, Extra Wrong by ROU+Nuisance+Value · · Score: 1

    Haven't looked at your passport or traveled outside the country much lately, hm? There are machine-readable bar codes in US passports now, in addition to RFID. The "government workers" you unfairly malign regularly open and slide passports through readers/recorders, in the US and lots of other countries.

    1. Re:-2, Extra Wrong by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Canadian passports too. I think there's some sort of international protocol for it, and they're probably in most first world passports now.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  60. Re:There is a very good reason he didn't clone it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had assumed it was a terribly awful haiku.

  61. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by profplump · · Score: 1

    Once you pull your passport out and open it, anyone in line-of-sight can read it with or without RFID. As it turns out, light transmits your password information over the air well.

    If you want to bash RFID feel free, but please pick a threat that's actually related to its use.

  62. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Faraday cage for your passport, only $50... http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/gear/a7a2/

  63. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Wizworm · · Score: 2, Informative

    A Faraday cage, must totally enclose the device, i.e. no magnetic flux lines can leave the cage, and terminate outside the cage.
    so unless you have a tiny phone I doubt a wallet was designed to totally contain an object the size of a phone

    --
    I always thought of Creationism as the Raving Right's version of the Loony Left's Anthropogenic Global Warming-brightmal
  64. This is exactly why... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Informative

    this kind of technology makes people and their information LESS secure, rather than more. Because it makes it far too easy to read someone else's information and clone it.

    The RFID Nazis will be quick to tell you that there is also a unique encryption key in the passports, but as has been pointed out elsewhere, only 5 of the 45 signatory nations supply their keys to the international database, and as long as any of those 45 nations fail to do so, the keys are meaningless because it is possible to clone passports from any of the non-compliant nations.

    And we KNOW that it is possible to physically duplicate passports effectively... after all, that was the justification for using RFID in the first place. So that isn't an argument.

  65. Not so. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    First off, RFIDs in passports do vary by region, but there is an international standard. The RFID actually carries a lot more than "just" the database key (I will get back to the key in a moment). It also carries other personal information that the passport contains, such as name, address, and physical characteristics (height, weight, hair and eye color, etc.). Failure to carry that additional information would drastically compromise any "security" that the RFID promised.

    The RFID also carries an "ID" number in addition to the database key. Unfortunately for the RFID concept, the ID number (not the unique key) of a blank RFID can be given whatever value the writer wishes. The upshot of this is, ALL the information from a passport (ID, physical and other information) can easily be read and cloned, except for the key. This cloned information can also be altered before it is written to another RFID chip.

    Now, as for the database key (which is not the same as the ID): the database system is based on an agreement between 45 countries to form a standard, common database for passports. Here is the problem: as of today, only 5 of those 45 countries are supplying the database with RFID keys. And -- as anyone knowledgeable about the passport system will tell you if they are honest -- as long as ANY of the signatory nations fail to comply by supplying their unique keys, the database system is completely useless, because it is possible to clone all the other information and thus create a fake passport from ANY of those other 40 countries.

    And if you know anything about international politics, you would know that it is about as likely as a snowball in hell that all 45 nations will ever comply.

    So today -- and for the foreseeable future -- the "unique key" of a passport RFID is effectively useless for security. Anyone knowledgeable about the system can read an RFID remotely, clone (and alter) the personal data contained, and forge a passport from any of the 40 nations that do not comply with the database standard.

    1. Re:Not so. by sirius-one · · Score: 1

      You seem to know what you are writing about, but I would like to see at least one reference. The notion that passport RFIDs contain a copy of the passport info seems beyond the pale, that is, too stupid to be true.

    2. Re:Not so. by swillden · · Score: 1

      The upshot of this is, ALL the information from a passport (ID, physical and other information) can easily be read and cloned, except for the key. This cloned information can also be altered before it is written to another RFID chip.

      Cloned, yes, altered, no.

      The data is hashed and the hash is signed with the issuing country's private key. The chip also contains the public key certificate of the issuer, signed by an ICAO root key. Any agency accepting the card should be validating that signature chain. If they are (and there is evidence that most are not; but that doesn't invalidate the scheme, it just means that *they* don't yet feel the need to check, something that could change at any time), then any alteration of the data would be detected.

      Now, as for the database key (which is not the same as the ID): the database system is based on an agreement between 45 countries to form a standard, common database for passports. Here is the problem: as of today, only 5 of those 45 countries are supplying the database with RFID keys.

      What database key is this and what is it used for? Please reference where it's described in the ICAO specifications.

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    3. Re:Not so. by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      The notion that passport RFIDs contain a copy of the passport info seems beyond the pale, that is, too stupid to be true.

      Sure! While light on tech details, it IS a starting reference point.

      --
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  66. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by jvkjvk · · Score: 1

    You must have some kind of super vision to be able to read a passport, or any other normally written characters at 25 feet. Definitely line of sight, definitely in range of RFID readers. Probably not in range of your eyesight.

    Sure, this breaks down at ~10 feet or so, but come on, your response seems lacking in sense.

  67. NOT! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    See my comment above. The digital "signing" of the passport IDs is effectively useless for security against a knowledgeable forger.

    This is "feel-good" security, or as Bruce Schneier calls it, "Security Theater". It makes people feel safer but in effect (because it does give a false sense of security but is so easily circumvented), the ACTUAL effect is to make people less secure.

    1. Re:NOT! by swillden · · Score: 1

      I assume you mean this comment. If so, see my response there.

      BTW, if you're going to refer someone to your other posts, it's polite to provide a link, rather than make them go searching your post history.

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  68. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.passport-stronghold.com/products.html

    They already exist and I've seen more stylish ones than these.

  69. Also NOT! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    There is much more to a passport RFID than just that, and in fact the "key" is effectively useless against a knowledgeable forger. See my comment further above for more explanation.

  70. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by miserere+nobis · · Score: 1

    I wasn't bashing RFID, and said so in my post. I was pointing at, to put it in your sort of wording, a threat related to this particular use of it. You point out exactly the problem with your own argument: line of sight. Turns out that most people, if another person is peering over their shoulder at a document in their hands, will believe that their documents are being read. Whereas if you're holding it closed, or handing it to one specific person to be examined, you don't expect some person near you, who can't see the contents, to be able to read them.

    Do you really not see a security difference between a passport that someone else can read only if they are near enough to see it clearly, manage to maneuver themselves into a position to be able to read it,if all the relevant pages are turned for them, and one that someone can read fully just by being nearby? You can exert some control over who visibly can see the pages of your passport, and you expect to shield sensitive information from view in public environments. You have no control over who can read your passport's radio transmissions.

  71. You have misunderstood by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    In general, what people have been calling "stupid" here are the "security experts" who have designed this fatally flawed system, and the government wonks who caused it to be implemented. I don't think cries of "stupidity!" have often been aimed at end-users, however you must admit that the average citizen knows little about these issues. In which case the term "ignorant" is more appropriate than "stupid" anyway.

    1. Re:You have misunderstood by ROU+Nuisance+Value · · Score: 1

      Not sure I did get it wrong, Jane Q. I was agreeing with the AC who posted "Mod parent up" and violently taking issue with Jamie's Nightmare, who did, after all, say this: "Per usual, security usually fails because of the user." But I also agree taht many people on the thread are aware that design is the main issue.

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  77. Its illegal in California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It has been illegal in California since October to sniff for RFID unless you're in law enforcement. What Chris did is illegal.

  78. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by swilver · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Although the cover may protect it, data encryption by itself won't protect you from malicious people keeping track of your movements. It's an easy thing to keep track of say everyone's movements at some kind of gate, and later adding a photo to whatever unique encrypted data is read from the chip. I could gather a few months worth of data at a public place, then pinpoint someone in a crowd and see exactly how often they were there, how long, and so on. All it takes is one easy unique way to distinguish a person (not necessarily identify, although coupling it with other systems may make that possible), and it opens up a lot of interesting ways to keep track of people.

  79. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by lgw · · Score: 1

    When you stay in a hotel in most countries, they keep your passport for a while. And they don't keep it in your tinfoil wallet. They ability to read your passport from the hotel lobby is bad for a number of reasons, from simple cloning to identifying the guests of some nationality before the shooting starts.

    --
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  80. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by swillden · · Score: 2, Informative

    Assuming the document ID (any identifiable string) can be determined at a distance, yes.

    There are two solutions to this. The first is the fact that the RF technology used by these chips does not work well at long ranges. In lab environments it's possible to get distances of up to a meter, but in the real world the limit is around 10 cm, assuming nothing is between card antenna and reader antenna (and assuming reader antenna is a high-gain type). The super long-range stunts you read about use a battery-powered repeater placed within a few centimeters of the card.

    Note that the above applies to the passport books. I'm not sure what the passport cards use, but it appears to be a different RFID technology which supports longer-range operation. It's highly likely that they also do not contain the same level of personal information that is in the books, simply because the 900 Mhz RFIDs (unlike the 13.56 Mhz contactless smart cards) don't provide the same storage capabilities.

    The other solution is ATR randomization. When powered by the reader field the chip transmits an "Answer To Reset" which includes some unique identifying information. Many researchers have called on the ICAO to specify that this should be randomized, exactly to prevent the sort of thing you describe. Manufacturers produce chips that do randomization. AFAIK, the US state dept. is not yet using them, although it's not unlikely that within a few years there will be no chips on the market that do NOT randomize their ATRs.

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  81. A simple solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A simple solution would be public key cryptography. Not storing any data about the person on the RFID, just a govt. issued digital signature of e.g. holders dob, name and passport number. Then an attacker would need to be able to read (as in take a look at it) the passport to be able to duplicate it, which would make this type of sniffing attacks useless. It would also allow anybody _shown the passport_ to verify the authenticity of the signed, printed information against the public government CoA.

    While it would still be possible to copy the signature with access to the printed-only information that was signed, this could be mitigated by distributing blacklists for known dupes.

    Alternatively, if you are government, index the passport data by the signature for easy wireless retrieval from a central database at a secure terminal. That way you don't necessarily need to even look at what's printed on the passport, just compare the facial features/fingerprints/retinal scan vs whatcha got in the database.

    Can't believe the stupidity of the RFID passport schemes in most 'civilized' countries.

  82. Good for him! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

    Paget is best known for having to abandon presenting a paper at the Black Hat security conference in Washington in 2007 after an RFID company threatened him with legal action."

    Revenge is a dish best served cold.

    Apparently this is a little unfair- he sniffed the data, he didn't actually make a fake passport.

    So what? The fact that he so easily grabbed that data is unnerving, and the availability of such personal information has ramifications far beyond a mere fake passport. It's good that he's showing the State Department's plan for what it always was: defective by design.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  83. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by legirons · · Score: 1

    I was going to post this too. A simple solution would be to make a passport holder that blocked the RFID signals, that you could purchase if you wanted to be sure your details weren't being scanned from afar.

    So it should be OK if you could trivially clone anyone who didn't want to spend extra money protecting themself?

    (scans passport) - "well, either you are who you say you are, or you're one of the 98% of americans who didn't bother to implement electromagnetic jamming on their wallets"

  84. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

    Well, the option is there to sate all the "government can't tell me what to do!" types, leaving it up to the individual to decide if it's worth it.

  85. The last time this was discussed on Slashdot by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    to any great extent, it was an article about someone who had cloned a passport, altered the data, and then tried the RFID on an airport reader, which showed the passport holder to be Elvis Presley.

    The important part of course being that the personal data (not just an ID) can be altered. I have already discussed the problem with the encryption key.

    Here is a link to an article about the prior data diddling that has been done:

    http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/10/rfid-passport-hack-has-scanners-seeing-visions-of-elvis.ars

    With very little effort you can find more information via Google, for example about the 45 signatory countries and the difficulty of not having them all aboard. That's how I found out about the situation... a few minutes with Google.

  86. The database key is the unique key by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    that is included on the chip, for lookup by readers according to the ICAO specifications. It is NOT the "ID" of the RFID chip, which can be given any value when the data is written to the chip by the burner. The unique keys are implanted in the chips at the time of manufacture and are in fact the only data on the RFID that cannot be written with custom data.

    But once again, it has been admitted that as long as any of the 45 signatory nations do not supply their IDs to the database, it will be possible to forge passports from those countries. Without the unique number in the database, the readers don't have anything to look up except the data that is on the chip itself.

    I don't have time to go hunting for citations right now. If you are truly interested in finding out about this you can spend a few minutes on Google and find it yourself, from sources that are plenty reputable enough to convince any reasonable person. It wasn't hard for me to find it, at all. But I am not going to go look this evening, I have other things to do.

    1. Re:The database key is the unique key by swillden · · Score: 1

      that is included on the chip, for lookup by readers according to the ICAO specifications.

      Where in the specifications? I can't find any reference to a database key.

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    2. Re:The database key is the unique key by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      It is a matter of terminology. People have been calling it a unique key into the passport database. In fact, it is simply a number that is unique to each RFID. These are the unique numbers that are given to each chip by the manufacturer, not an "ID" that is burned into the chip later. Much like MAC addresses in networking chips, each number is globally unique. I presume that, like MACs, manufacturers are assigned blocks of numbers to work with.

    3. Re:The database key is the unique key by JCota · · Score: 0

      Well we know that Bond, James Bond will be from one of those 40 countries and doesn't really have to change anything but that 'ID' to change the country he's from, because we all know his appearance as 007 only changes about every 10 years.

    4. Re:The database key is the unique key by swillden · · Score: 1

      It is a matter of terminology. People have been calling it a unique key into the passport database. In fact, it is simply a number that is unique to each RFID. These are the unique numbers that are given to each chip by the manufacturer, not an "ID" that is burned into the chip later.

      Ah, so you're talking about the chip ID.

      Those have little to nothing to do with the security of the data on the chip. That data is secured by two mechanisms:

      (1) Access control to it is secured by a cryptographic mutual authentication process using a key derived from the MRZ, an optically-readable string printed on the inside of the passport (for passport books; AFAIK this doesn't apply to the cards).

      (2) Integrity of the data is assured by a 2048-bit RSA private key signature. The data in the chip is in multiple "files". Each file is hashed and the hash values are placed in another file which itself is hashed and signed. Any alteration of the content will invalidate the signature. If you claim otherwise, you're claiming that RSA has been broken. That's a whopper of a claim.

      Perhaps there is some registry of chip IDs that's intended to be kept, but isn't referenced in any of the three chapters of ICAO doc 9303. And perhaps countries aren't providing those IDs. In spite of working in this field, I'm not prepared to say absolutely that no such thing exists. However, I will say that it's irrelevant to the authenticity and integrity of the personal data stored on the chip.

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  87. Whatever can be done, will be done! by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    Do you trust that unknown guy across the side with his scanner?
    He might just have cloned your cards without you knowing it ...

    This is a proof of concept which is very close to an authentication reality disaster ...

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  88. Don't forget about the Kill-Pin .. by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    The Kill-Pin can be used to hide tracking information without the owner of the password knowing this.

    It has already been proven before.

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  89. I don't know ... recent example .. DECT phones.. by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    Heise Security has been proving before the cordless phones in Europe working with the DECT algorithm are all vulnerable to easy eavesdropping.
    SIM Cards are only smartcards; which can still be copied over with enough funds a/o materials.
    I don't really know if we can rely fully on this...

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  90. More info about DECT eavesdropping by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    here and pdf.

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  91. Unfair for all of us ! by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    Now we got nobody to test the RFID security in jail! ;)

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  92. Sorry, but it HAS been done. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    See the link to the article above. Believe me, this was all hashed out before, when that article first reached Slashdot, and they did indeed do it.

    1. Re:Sorry, but it HAS been done. by swillden · · Score: 1

      See the link to the article above. Believe me, this was all hashed out before, when that article first reached Slashdot, and they did indeed do it.

      You're saying they broke RSA?

      That would be HUGE news. Earthshattering.

      Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about.

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    2. Re:Sorry, but it HAS been done. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Have you been keeping up with the news at all?

      Nobody has "broken" RSA, in the sense you mean, but keys HAVE been "borrowed" (obtained elsewhere), and also "guessed" through brute force.

      I do in fact know what I am talking about, and if you had been keeping up with the news, you would know too. But I will not respond further to such insulting comments from people who obviously can't be bothered to keep up with what is happening all around them.

    3. Re:Sorry, but it HAS been done. by swillden · · Score: 1

      Nobody has "broken" RSA, in the sense you mean, but keys HAVE been "borrowed" (obtained elsewhere), and also "guessed" through brute force.

      I think you're confusing the RSA signing keys with the MRZ-derived authentication keys. Those have been guessed because they're comprised of non-random user-identifiable data, which means their entropy is low. I and many others pointed out that was a bad idea even before someone demonstrated that they could be guessed with only a little brute force.

      2048-bit RSA keys cannot be brute forced, not with any technology we have today. And the notion that they could be borrowed is ludicrous. Those keys are generated and managed inside of highly-secure devices (FIPS 140-2 level *4* compliant devices, to be precise) which are configured never, EVER to divulge the private keys no matter what authorization is given. The only way to get those keys is to take the physical device, and the physical security around those is very high. Not to mention that mere possession of the device is inadequate to get it to sign things for you. You also have to have the right authentication credentials to prove to the device your authority to request those signatures.

      I do in fact know what I am talking about, and if you had been keeping up with the news, you would know too.

      LOL. You realize this is what I do for a living, right?

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  93. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's right. After all it is more convenient to have cards with special RFID blocking cases, then to go through the hassle of having to hand over a card so its magnetic strip can be swiped.

    I love ssergorp

  94. HOWEVER, by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    I find it pretty surprising that in one message you can write such things as "you don't know what you are talking about", and then in another message try to pump me for information.

    It looks like you will either have to do your own research on the matter, or remain ignorant, because the one insult is plenty, thank you very much. You can go get your information elsewhere.

    I will cut an anticipated reply ("you won't answer because you can't") off at the pass, and state that yes, I could in fact explain this all fully for you (now that I am back and have some time), and cite references, but now I have no reason to do so, so I shall not. Find them yourself.

    I will give you just one hint and say that at least some of the information is linked to in the LAST Slashdot thread that had to do with this very same subject. In fact much of what you are saying was echoed, several times, in that discussion, by people who weren't up on the technology or policies.

    1. Re:HOWEVER, by swillden · · Score: 1

      I find it pretty surprising that in one message you can write such things as "you don't know what you are talking about", and then in another message try to pump me for information.

      Dude -- I have copies of the ICAO specifications, because a couple of years I worked on implementing them. I'm telling you there's no "database key" referenced in them. I'm asking you to tell me where it is, because as far as I can tell, it's NOT THERE.

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    2. Re:HOWEVER, by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "DUDE"?

      Did you read the specifications with the same attention to detail that you used when reading my name?

      Or how about this: "I will cut an anticipated reply ('you won't answer because you can't') off at the pass..." Can I call them, or what? Granted, that is not exactly what you say here, but close enough. I was going to explain all this more clearly for you when I got back from my meeting last night, but changed my mind when I saw that "you don't know what you are talking about" comment.

      Did you even read the part where I explained that by "database key", people were referring to the unique identifier? Apparently you did not.

      You also ASSUMED that when I mentioned that actual passports had been compromised and altered, that I was implying that RSA (and by that I believe you meant DES) had been "broken". Even though I explained that this was not the case and why.

      And the many other assumptions you made, not to mention your attitude.

      I could explain it all in detail for you, now that I have the time, but I am not going to because of your insults and your attitude. Go find your information elsewhere.

    3. Re:HOWEVER, by swillden · · Score: 1

      "DUDE"?

      Did you read the specifications with the same attention to detail that you used when reading my name?

      (a) It's a gender-neutral expression these days (my daughter and her friends call each other 'dude' all the time) and (b) nicks' indications of gender are unreliable at best.

      Did you even read the part where I explained that by "database key", people were referring to the unique identifier? Apparently you did not.

      I THINK you're referring to the chip ID. However, it has nothing to do with security. So, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by thinking that perhaps you actually mean something else, and I'm inviting you to explain.

      You also ASSUMED that when I mentioned that actual passports had been compromised and altered, that I was implying that RSA (and by that I believe you meant DES) had been "broken". Even though I explained that this was not the case and why.

      You didn't explain why that was not the case. And, no, I did not mean DES. RSA is used for signing the data. DES is used for authenticating to the chip to RETRIEVE the signed data. That authentication requires no chip ID database to perform, however, since the information needed to generated the DES (actually 3DES) key is printed on the information page of the passport book. Anyone who can open the book can authenticate and read the data out of the chip. As several researchers have pointed out, people who are good guessers can authenticate even without seeing the information page of the book.

      Once the data is read out, however, it still cannot be altered without invalidating the signature.

      I could explain it all in detail for you, now that I have the time, but I am not going to because of your insults and your attitude. Go find your information elsewhere.

      Lady (happy?), I've been nothing but friendly here, in spite of your aggressive attitude. It's becoming increasingly clear that you're really just trolling. You have clearly won. I'll have a nice day (which I was going to do anyway).

      If you're not trolling, I guess we just have different definitions of the word "information". I like facts, not random, half-understood rumors gleaned from misinformed news sources.

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    4. Re:HOWEVER, by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Okay, I will accept your explanation. Can we start from here?

      Each RFID has, embedded in the chip, a unique identification tag. This "number" (if you read the specification carefully you will see the call for this, whatever they choose to call it) is unique among all RFID chips that are to be manufactured, anywhere, as part of the ICOA.

      Are we okay so far? This UID (unique identifier) is intended to be global in scope. A very similar scheme is used for the MAC addresses of network chips (a block of globally unique identifiers is assigned to manufacturers according to their need.) So: no great surprise so far, yes?

      I am not trying to be patronizing, I am just trying to make sure we are on the same channel, one step at a time. And in fact it is 1:00 am here, and I will have to continue later. But I will. (But actually, as I have mentioned before,

    5. Re:HOWEVER, by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Gah. Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding: I am referring to chips that are manufactured specifically for use in RFID tags to be used under the ICOA specifications.

      I will also state that we are both referring to "security" measures that are each difficult to defeat, and in combination seemingly undefeatable, but when I put it all together I believe you will understand that in practice the system can be defeated. Not easily... I didn't say that.

    6. Re:HOWEVER, by swillden · · Score: 1

      Sure, chip IDs are globally unique. This isn't something unique to ICAO-compliant passport chips, it's a normal characteristics of all smart card chips and has been for 30 years. I've never noticed any mention of chip IDs in 9303, but perhaps that's because they're just -- quite reasonably -- taken for granted as an ordinary, fundamental feature of the technology.

      In fact, chip IDs ARE referenced in ISO 7816-4 (in the description of the standard GET DATA command APDU), and ICAO 9303 does reference ISO 7816.

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  95. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Ecyrd · · Score: 1

    There are multiple technologies, all called RFID. Some of them have very short range (like the ISO 14443 used in the passports, also known as NFC), which has pretty much a maximum distance of one metre (due to the coupling it uses).

    However, there are other technologies which allow far longer reading range - such as the one used in these inconveniently named "passport cards". The EZPass cards can be read from the range of several metres fairly easily.

    Don't confuse these "far field" and "near field" RFID technologies. They are physically quite different beasts.

  96. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Ecyrd · · Score: 1

    Or just buy one of the Nokia phones which already have an RFID/NFC reader in them (yes, it can read passports).

    http://europe.nokia.com/A4991361

  97. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by Ecyrd · · Score: 1

    Yes, correct. Some of the passports out there already provide ATR randomization providing random anticollision IDs for each query, so there's no unique data which can be used to identify the passport.

    Unfortunately this is not widely used yet, though in all honesty, following your cell phone IMEI or Bluetooth code is far easier than trying to read the passport anticol id - you need a really large and expensive infrastructure in order to have any sort of massive tracking capability for this near field RFID...

  98. Re:Tinfoil is the answer. Seriously! by swillden · · Score: 1

    in all honesty, following your cell phone IMEI or Bluetooth code is far easier than trying to read the passport anticol id

    Excellent point. I wonder how many of these people that wrap their passports in tinfoil are carrying a powered-on cellphone which, as you point out, is not only nicely unique but transmits a nice, strong signal that is -- by design! -- detectable for tens of kilometers, rather than centimeters.

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  99. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    A Faraday cage, must totally enclose the device, i.e. no magnetic flux lines can leave the cage, and terminate outside the cage.

    so unless you have a tiny phone I doubt a wallet was designed to totally contain an object the size of a phone

    I see, thanks. I'm no electrical engineer, so this was not all that clear to me. Tell me, assuming average human adult cranial dimensions, what size should a real tinfoil hat be then?

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  100. Re:Bring out the T I N F O I L ! by Wizworm · · Score: 1

    Think of a Tyvec painters suit, but made out of tinfoil, with see through mesh screen.. Caveat. Mesh will only work for specific wavelengths. A modern laser microphone is impervious to your tinfoil sillyness

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    I always thought of Creationism as the Raving Right's version of the Loony Left's Anthropogenic Global Warming-brightmal