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Post-Beta Windows 7 Build Leaked With New IE8
CWmike writes "A post-beta version of Windows 7, Build 7022, leaked to Internet file-sharing sites also includes an updated version of IE8, according to searches at several BitTorrent trackers. With Microsoft halting new Windows 7 beta downloads on Tuesday, and blocking all downloads as of noon (EST) today, users are again turning to illegal sources to get the new operating system."
>users are again turning to illegal sources to get the new operating system."
I suppose it's almost obligatory, but "why"?, for heavens sake? Other than having a shiny new toy, who really cares? It's just the latest entry in a quarter century of same-old, same-old.
Ho hum ...
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
...has always been that they contained malicious software that will slow down my computer and drain my bank account...this simply proved it!
Post-beta is really relative. I consider all windows OSes beta until 2 years after the initial release.
Who's leaking the builds?
Either way, Microsoft are getting a lot of good free press from them so far, I don't think they'll really have to worry about piracy cutting into their profits too much.
I'd be pretty surprised if this latest leaked build ends up giving us a sneak peak at what Microsoft's plans to butcher up Windows 7 into 5+ "versions" is. I'd like to try to use my computer with a 2-process limit, just to see how stupid that would be!
But, I suppose that would be BAD press...
I guess you have never tried it, I could recommend some distros that are on very mature and dont require you to learn command lines to use...check the following and then say again whatever you want, if, they havent changed your mind al together:
www.kanotix.com
www.debian.org
http://fedoraproject.org
http://www.opensuse.org
http://www.ubuntu.com
http://www.gentoo.org
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org
http://www.knoppix.com
just to name a few, most of them can run from a CD on the fly ( boot from CD) and most if not all of the new stuff configures itself, wanna try?
I can't understand WHY users would break the copyright to get this heap of crap on their computers... No, really.
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
I've heard this before, google came up with nothing. Someone care to explain?
http://CryoLANparty.com/ A lan I'm staff on!
It's a troll, I think.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Sorry, you're not cleared for that.
It's a meme some AC's have been trying to start; so far it has been a "no go". But I for one am happy that it has been failing, slashdot really doesn't need to have another crappy meme.
Know thyself. -- Delphic Oracle, 8th century BC
You are a big ol' fat doo-doo head.
Thanks you, unfortunately I cannot mod you up, but I hope someone does give you at least +1 Informative.
http://CryoLANparty.com/ A lan I'm staff on!
So do we really need to have a Windows 7 article every day? It's in beta, it changes -- and it's not exactly eagerly awaited anyway.
So, other than MS promoting this as much as the possibly can -- is there any need to have any articles on it at all, unless there's a major change?
"The Googles, they do nothing!" ...or something like that.
I still cannot fathom why people scramble to get the latest copy of a Windows OS way before it's really even declared "ready."
It's not like your development software is really going to work on the thing; and for that matter--we all know once it finally gets pressed to a DVD the first Service Pack is already on its way out the door, so QA-testing is moot.
BREAKING: Microsoft critically wounded by Internet assailant
In what appears to be yet another PR nightmare for the software giant, today Internet user macraig made scathing comments on the highly reputable Slashdot ORG site. Calling all Microsoft operating systems after Windows 2000, "a job poorly done" and noting that Windows has family and friends "hand-cuffed" to it, macraig assaulted the company with fierce textual blows. He even implied he would not infringe copyrights to obtain the newest Windows 7 operating system, a rather heinous indictment in this Web 2.0 world of P2P. "It was wanton, it was unnecessary," said one page viewer. Another user by the name of Anonymous Coward said he didn't know what to think after he read macraig's comments, only remarking on how "gruesome" the spectacle was.
Whether Microsoft will fully recover from this battery of attacks, no one will know. They were unavailable for comment. We will continue to keep you posted on this breaking news story.
Next, do you let your children go outside? Stay tuned as our team exposes the shocking link between sexual predators and children going outside!
I don't get this - If you haven't used a windows OS since 2000, how can you say it a "job poorly done".
For my 2c, XP is a very well rounded operating system - part of the reason MS is finding it so hard to move people from it.
Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
That's simply because the average penis size of a GNU/Linux user is 20", it's limp because if it gets hard: we pass out from lack of blood.
Lunix just isn't ready for the desktop yet. It may be ready for the web servers that you nerds use to distribute your TRON fanzines and personal Dungeons and Dragons web-sights across the world wide web, but the average computer user isn't going to spend months learning how to use a CLI and then hours compiling packages so that they can get a workable graphic interface to check their mail with, especially not when they already have a Windows machine that does its job perfectly well and is backed by a major corporation, as opposed to Lunix which is only supported by a few unemployed nerds living in their mother's basement somewhere. The last thing I want is a level 5 dwarf (haha) providing me my OS.
Ironically, this post is almost on-topic for once, given the fact that the article is about the upcoming Windows release. Too bad it's posted in most of the commentaries where it IS off-topic.
By the way, I've never heard of Lunix. Would you care to explain what it is?
Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
the new operating system
You'd think that, but you'd be wrong.
Please don't feed the trolls.
You lie! It's only 19.5 and you're rounding up.
Get a fscking clue here people, This "leak" is a marketing project from the word go.
Step 1: Build a virtually-nonfunctional but highly stable show-off OS with all of the important (and wildly unstable) compatibility turned off.
Step 2: Leak said software as your next great release and bemoan the loss of your great surprise unveiling.
Step 3: Pay lots of reviewers to fill comment sites about how terrific the fantastic OS is before most have ever seen it.
Step 4: Enjoy a *positive* rollout on the heals of your abomination of a release called 'Vista' and that horseshit "not vista" campaign that followed.
Step 5: Profit
ZZZZZZZZZZZ it's so interesting ZZZZZZ it's so l33+ zzzzzzzzzzzzz
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
I still cannot fathom why people scramble to get the latest copy of a Windows OS way before it's really even declared "ready."
Mostly because it's going to be the dominant OS for the next 5+ years and maybe, just maybe, they want to get familiar with it as soon as possible.
Windows still has about 88% of the market. That means, on average, out of 100 people, 1 uses linux, 9 use MacOS, 2 use another OS and 88 use Windows.
Think about that for a moment, 88% vs 1%. The question should be, why do we care about the latest build of anything else?
haha, Obama is hot isn't he?!
When you snap out of being in denial we'll be there for you honey.
I guess you have never tried it, I could recommend some distros that are on very mature and dont require you to learn command lines to use.
http://www.gentoo.org/
So out of all the user friendly distros you pick... Gentoo?
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Want to bet how quickly someone releases patched files to unlock this 3 app limit?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
More likely - Microsoft is "leaking" the new build to create a buzz of anticipation in the user community.
So you're saying Vista was "New Coke"?
I heard plenty of theories that New Coke was a gimmick to get people excited about Coke Classic and still pulling people from Pepsi. In other words, a few people actually like Vista and maybe MS are banking on Windows 7 to win back the flock that Vista drove off. I can guarantee I will never switch back to Microsoft, but a lot of people might if Windows 7 sucks a lot less than "Visturd".
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
The leaked beta is 32bit only.
The Ninnle stuff has been posted for years now. You must be new here.
I avoided Vista, in part because of all the negativity surrounding it here, and in part because of actual experience with it running on what should have been lightning fast hardware (dual core CPUs, 4gigs of RAM but integrated, onboard video). I've used the Windows 7 beta, and now I'm not too concerned about moving off of XP when the time comes. That isn't to say that I'm leaving XP anytime soon (much like I didn't leave Win2000 until long after XP SP2 was out.) However Windows 7 is to Vista what Win98SE was to WinME. In other words, they got it right, after a serious misstep.
Gentoo is actually a distro I recommend sometimes to people who are interested in installing Linux on their computer for the first time, and it's not because I'm some MS shrill who is trying to scare people away from Linux. ;-)
But if you have someone who has used Linux on someone else's computer or a school computer or something so that they are not scared of the command line and are have become pretty sure this is something that they'll actually be using rather than just installing because they want to try it and think they might like it, and they are willing to put in a little bit of effort, Gentoo is a really good choice. (That's a lot of 'if's, but Gentoo isn't exactly your typical newbie distro.)
I'm a big Gentoo fan (well, to the extent I'm a fan of any OS, which is not very much), because I think it is a solid distribution, but the main selling point for someone who can and is willing to deal with it is that in my experience, the documentation has just been outstanding. It's been a bit since I have really done any adminning of my own Linux box so this may be out of date, but I would do searches for Linux problems without specifying I was running Gentoo, and it seemed that half the time I would hit something on the Gentoo site anyway.
no idea, mario.
I'm sticking with XP. I've had a chance to try Vista, and I really hated it. It reminded me too much of a Mac. Flashy graphics make for slow processors. Also, I have 1GB RAM on my lappy, which means that I could just barely run Vista. No thanks, I'll stick to running XP comfortably. There is plenty of product support and compatibility, and it gets the job done for me. As far as people downloading the new windows over BitTorrent, don't they realize that you have to have a genuine copy to get the updates? Or is there a crack out already?
Eh, I never said it was new, just that it was a failed meme. Though you're right, it's a couple of years old, the oldest post I found was in 2004. But I have better things to do than debate the time line of slashdot memes, or at least I would like to think so.
Know thyself. -- Delphic Oracle, 8th century BC
On Soviet Slashdot, memes fail YOU!
Maybe. I think there's a thread of truth in there, but one thing I can say for sure: Microsoft hates software piracy and they will never -- at least officially -- admit that that version was leaked on purpose. And maybe even it wasn't.
My blog
and it seemed that half the time I would hit something on the Gentoo site anyway
May be because google personalized your search even when you're not logged in?
Who cares? It's Windows. Screw it. Never again. 10+ Windows free and LOVING IT!
slashdot really doesn't need to have another crappy meme
In Soviet Russia another crappy meme has you!
Errrr....
Trolling is a art,
Gentoo is surprisingly intuitive, even for a computer illiterate as me, I simply can't do code, Im dense, but I can use Gentoo with ease...why?
I downloaded Windows 7, Build 7000 via MSDN. It comes with IE 8 BETA, version 8.0.7000.
I accidentally downloaded Vista from the MSDN and installed it. I was using it for almost a day. I thought I needed to buy a new computer it was so slow. I have an AMD Dual Core 4200+ with 1 GB of RAM... then I realized this wasn't Windows 7.
I downloaded Windows 7 and quite frankly MS has a lot to be proud of. It's much snappier then Vista. It definitely feels like this will be the next corporate desktop OS. It's not much slower than Ubuntu which I used on the PC for almost 2 years.
However Windows 7 is to Vista what Win98SE was to WinME. In other words, they got it right, after a serious misstep.
Sorry, are you saying that 98SE was the dog and ME got it right??? (ME was the successor to 98SE)
I think most people would say it's the other way around
Ever stop to think
You might want to add Linux Mint on that list..
http://www.linuxmint.com/
It is definitely one of the "just works" type of Linux distribution. (based on Ubuntu)
BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War. It is based on a program called "xenix", which was written by Microsoft for the US government. These programs are used by hackers to break into other people's computer systems to steal credit card numbers. They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music, using the "mp3" program. Torovoltos is a notorious hacker, responsible for writing many hacker programs, such as "telnet", which is used by hackers to connect to machines on the internet without using a telephone.
Your son may try to install "lunix" on your hard drive. If he is careful, you may not notice its presence, however, lunix is a capricious beast, and if handled incorrectly, your son may damage your computer, and even break it completely by deleting Windows, at which point you will have to have your computer repaired by a professional.
If you see the word "LILO" during your windows startup (just after you turn the machine on), your son has installed lunix. In order to get rid of it, you will have to send your computer back to the manufacturer, and have them fit a new hard drive. Lunix is extremely dangerous software, and cannot be removed without destroying part of your hard disk surface.
...and how it took ME (an abomination) to get people to move to XP, much like it's now taking Vista...
You avoided Vista partly because of all negativity surrounding it here?
Everything on this site that concerns MS is surrounded by negativity.
Uhhh... 98SE came out BEFORE WinME... seems to me they got it right and then misstepped and fell flat on their face. Bad example. Or are you saying that.. LOL.. you liked WinME?
Right, I stopped reading right here. What builds of Windows 7 have had "the important and unstable compatibility" turned off? I'm using the beta right now and it runs all the same stuff Vista does, which contrary to popular belief, is MOST things. I've yet to find an incompatible program that wasn't Daemon tools (Because it needs to install some weird SPI driver or something and it doesn't like 7).
Yes yes, of course you're right. Linux is only good for TRON fanzine and AD&D sites. That's exactly why IBM is moving it's web servers off AIX and onto zLinux servers. This is why less than .5% of IBMs internal servers run on Windows, which have over all the worst uptime of any system.
It's also clear that Linux isn't ready for the desktop when it supports more hardware "off the shelf" than XP does, and meets nearly every need a typical user needs.
The one thing that Linux does suck at, is games. So if that's all you need a computer for, keep playing till the RSI cripples you and you leave the rest of us alone.
Not a good troll, but a nice first attempt. You insult nerds with tron fanzines and Dungeons and Dragons websites, but you know what a CLI is and you know about compiling packages? Although, it was kind of cute.
well i knew internet explorer was bloated, but i didn't realise that it was so overfilled with crap that an entire operating system got leaked with it!
oh wait, maybe i read that wrong...
Once the public learned about the 3 app limit
The "three app limit" applies only to the Starter Edition - a Windows OS and a small suite of programs localized for beginners in third world countries.
The Sugar GUI originally designed for OLPC allows only one task to run.
It makes no sense to allow inexperienced users to randomly launch multiple apps on systems that will very quickly run out of the resources needed to run them.
Sigh....I am probably going to get flamed for this, but what the hey, my karma is great and I hate half truths. There is NO Linux OS that you don't have to learn CLI. NONE AT ALL. Folks like to say that there is, but there really isn't.
If you want proof, here it is. Pretend to be an Ubuntu user. Ubuntu is a friendly Linux distro that doesn't need CLI, right? Install it to a PC. Now let us say that something doesn't work. You are completely free to pick the something: Network/Audio/Video/multi card reader, whatever. Now go to the forums like a good Windows user would do and ask for help. Your answer will ALWAYS start with "Bring up Bash and....."
And it is at THAT moment you have lost. You have failed, the game is over, the fat lady has sung, please hit the lights on your way out. You will NEVER get your average Windows user to use CLI. Hell even the power users usually avoid it like an STD. Believe me, of this I know. As a Windows repairman with over 15 years in the biz I have tried teaching a little CLI to users. It is not going to happen cap'n. They don't WANT to learn the CLI, they HATE the CLI, and frankly the vast majority doesn't even know that Windows HAS a CLI, because in Windows you can always do what you need to by GUI. But it just ain't so in Linux.
The day that you can have a problem in a Linux distro and go to the forums and NOT get "bring up bash and..." as the standard answer then it might be ready for Windows users. Oh, and make those damned Lexmark printers work, but that is another story. But until Linux reaches the point that you can fix problems without ever needing to know the CLI exists it just won't be ready for most Windows users. Honestly I don't think it ever will be, simply because Linux under the hood is really built for servers and servers are CLI based. Nothing wrong with that, servers are a big market. But those shelling out the big bucks to write all the nitty gritty down and dirty internals that all the distros have in common are doing it for servers. And an emphasis on removing CLI dependence simply isn't something they are the least bit interested in. But the second you tell the vast majority of Windows users to "bring up bash and..." they will be bringing the PC to me to have it wiped and Windows installed. Sorry.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I guess the past has gotten hazy. I thought that ME came out after 98SE.
I don't know what to think about this post. It's such a gruesome spectacle.
Of corse he picked Gentoo. Gentoo are penguins. And penguins are cute and fuzzy. And anything cute and fuzzy must be friendly and easy to use. Right?
Be relentless!
The number of times I've had to use a CLI to fix something in Linux is about the same as the number of times I've had to use the Registry Editor to fix something in Windows.
So I suppose I can switch your argument around a bit: The day that you can have a problem in Windows and can go to a forum and not get "Start > Run... > regedit" as the standard answer is that day that it might be ready for users.
No existe.
course*
Damnit, I should have hit the preview button!
Be relentless!
like the FOSS cock up your ass? ME hardly sold any copies. Since Linux fags are used to being in the 2% of morons who use some weird OS which is useless on the desktop it seems like ME was a huge success, but in reality nobody even bought it. Oh yeah I've seen some smelly hippie "demonstrate" linux (aka prove that its useless) by showing people in the office some spinning cubes or some other crap by typing shit in the command line. Most people laugh and go home and play Assasins Creed or fuck their girlfriend while the hippie goes home and comments on slashdot how he "converted" people to linux and how "amazed" they were. hahaha.. i mean what a fucking joke. You fags cant even keep the OS running through the newyear -> http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/612/
But whats funny is bugs like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/257666 Even my 2yr old niece can crash linux. Put in a SD card.. BOOM instant crash.
In closing - ME is unlike Vista, which is a success. In terms of marketshare, anyway. Win 7 will be too. Unless the market gets scared of some commenters here. What do you think? LOL. To any non-tech person reading this, most /. comments; ranting about micro$oft are like white noise. Very peaceful and can be ignored....
It's new coke all over again. When will we learn!
It must be a really failed meme then. As you can see from my UID, I'm not new here, and I don't remember ever hearing this one before.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
I cut my teeth on Gentoo in Junior High. My only command line experience before that was DOS and an apple station or something (when I was like 6).
You should try Arch (http://www.archlinux.org/), it has all the advantages of Gentoo and less hassle if you don't feel like compiling every single package.
Gentoo is not that hard to install, configure and use, thanks to its excellent documentation. The only prerequisite is that you are willing to learn and to spend some time to make everything work.
I used to run Gentoo exclusively, but I got tired of waiting for the packages to compile...
Nope, Successful Troll
Collateral damage is an essential part of a good incite-full troll.
is actually not for developing markets.
And the Sugar GUI runs on a computer that is powered by a Geode, with minimal RAM, that's low even compared to the netbooks.
Got, installed it on a secondary partition on a custom rig that Vista seemed to hate. So far, FANTASTIC! I haven't been on vista in about 6 months, so maybe vista got better, but W7 so far seems awesome. The taskbar is pretty sweet with the whole pinning, the my computer shell seems pretty great, and the control panel so far seems really nice. It's too early to say, but so far I am way more impressed than I was trying Vista for awhile. Too early to say, but in comparison to my last experiences, performance seems great.
~ just one sheep's feedback
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You know, sometimes a CLI is just the best and easiest solution...
Have you ever used an operating system besides XP (and I am not talking about Vista/7.0)? XP was ok 5 years ago.
With XP, you can turn off the stuff that makes it annoying (theme, welcome screen, system restore, etc) and you've basically got win2k again.
With vista, reverting to classic theme shows that the glossy "refresh" and "go" buttons in explorer and other places are hardcoded in and look way out of place, and the dimensions of the start menu and other screens (mostly control panel) look very odd in classic. The welcome screen can't be changed from the ugly default, or reverted to nt logon. It's next to impossible to configure a 2k-like system from vista. I'm sure the same will be true of win7.
Why does my post history abruptly stop? I want to laugh at the stupid things I posted as a kid.
Remember the flying toasters screensaver? This version has flying chairs.
They have so much money coming from their other products...
Dont worry. They will fix that problem with XP in a couple patches.
retard. Linux is written from scratch which means that there is very little connection to any of the bugs in Unix and its derivatives or variants. Bugs are specific to specific implementations. If Linux contains any code from Unix or any other commercial codebase it basically means "Goodbye GPL" and every linux vendor would get sued to oblivion.
Its so painfully obvious you've never worked on, let alone shipped anything written in C. What the fuck has happend to slashdot? (No, that was rhetorical) Its filled with windows fanboys and retarded linux cheerleaders... Damn I need to find another technical forum.
And that is precisely the problem with Linux. Once in a blue moon a user not experienced with a CLI must use that godforesaken spew of Unix vomit. They won't remember what they've learned last time because it was too long ago. How come you Unix jocks cannot gui the damn CLI so those of us who have something better to do than recall arcane Unix commands can simply guide ourselves to the missing piece of trivia the unix or linux gods decided was too far beneath them to properly abstract and make evidently available?
The problem with your argument is this: and it is another really big problem with Linux. With Windows they often don't HAVE to use reg edit, even for a nasty problem. Why? Because there is usually an uncle/cousin/nephew who is a "power user" and has no problem doing that for them. Or if they are one of those that don't have someone like that in the family they can bring it to one of the multitude of friendly Windows repairmen like me. And we don't support Linux. Frankly it is just too much of a PITA. If you talk to a Windows repairman they'll tell you that like me they tried Linux and left because of something them just drove them batshit insane.
In my case I went so far as to try to sell low cost Linux boxes, boy what a mistake that was! Why was it a mistake? Five words: Lexmark all in one printer. You ever try to get one of those bastards to work in Linux? Good luck with that! And can you guess what the most popular consumer printer is? That's right, you guessed it! I was able to sell the machines with Win98 and Win2K easier than a nice shiny new Kubuntu because what good is a PC that you can't print from? And you can forget bundling a printer because nobody is going to pay $300 for a 1.4GHz PC with 512MB of RAM simply for the privilege of using Linux. So from a business perspective it is easier to only carry Windows. Even if the machine is Win2K a good 99.5% of the time there is a driver for it. As I just pointed out there is a whole class of consumer product that you will be lucky to get to work at all in Linux.
Is it the fault of Linux? Nope, not at all. But consumers don't care. They want it to work or they are wanting their money back. As I said Linux is great for servers. All the major server hardware is supported out of the box and it is easier to lock down than Windows. But until I can be assured that everything my customers is likely to pick up in Walmart will work in say Kubuntu out of the box I simply can't deal with it. And talking to local shop owners none of them deal with Linux either. So while your Windows user can drop it off at a "power user" or slip a little cash to a repair shop and have their problems magically disappear, the Windows user trying Linux for the first time is alone, with a big blinking Bash cursor that frankly scares them that they are going to do something wrong. It is TOO powerful for them. So they bring it to me to wipe and put Windows on where they feel safe that they know what they are doing and can get real live help when they need it. Sorry, no sale.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Microsoft hates software piracy and they will never -- at least officially -- admit that that version was leaked on purpose.
That begs the question, does Microsoft hate software piracy? Or do they just have to go to herculean efforts to convince us that they do?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
With Windows they often don't HAVE to use reg edit, even for a nasty problem. Why? Because there is usually an uncle/cousin/nephew who is a "power user" and has no problem doing that for them.
If you need some remote support, which is often the case, you have to hope someone will make you a .reg file. But then, they could be making you a .sh file.
Anyway, lots of instructions don't have you drop to the commandline. I've seen lots where they have you click to gedit to edit a configuration file. You are simply wrong.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It doesn't HAVE to be a failed meme! Anyone can spread the world about Ninnle! Even in SOVIET RUSSIA!
.reg files are really easy... it's just a couple of hierarchical keys with their values. .sh files on the other hand, require much more knowledge of how the distro is laid out, and you have to test them before deploying (.reg files can be extracted from an already functioning machine)... which is a big part of the problem of having someone with no clue operating the CLI. If you ever guided someone around the CLI through the phone you know you can't take anything for granted (working directory, press ENTER, what kind of quotes, what kind of slash, etc.).
As a Slashdot discussion grows longer, the probability of an analogy involving cars approaches one.
Gentoo is actually a distro I recommend sometimes to people who are interested in installing Linux on their computer for the first time, and it's not because I'm some MS shrill who is trying to scare people away from Linux. ;-)
But if you have someone who has used Linux on someone else's computer or a school computer or something so that they are not scared of the command line and are have become pretty sure this is something that they'll actually be using rather than just installing because they want to try it and think they might like it, and they are willing to put in a little bit of effort, Gentoo is a really good choice. (That's a lot of 'if's, but Gentoo isn't exactly your typical newbie distro.)
I'm a big Gentoo fan (well, to the extent I'm a fan of any OS, which is not very much), because I think it is a solid distribution, but the main selling point for someone who can and is willing to deal with it is that in my experience, the documentation has just been outstanding. It's been a bit since I have really done any adminning of my own Linux box so this may be out of date, but I would do searches for Linux problems without specifying I was running Gentoo, and it seemed that half the time I would hit something on the Gentoo site anyway.
I won't diss Gentoo, but I prefer Arch. Don't flame me, I know what I am going to say is wrong, but I think of Arch as a binary Gentoo. It's fast, lean, bleeding edge, and on a rolling release like Gentoo, but without all time waiting for it to compile. I tried Gentoo for a while, but I got tired of the compile time, and I find Arch more user friendly since so much can be controlled with a few config files in etc, and they have a really nice source repo (AUR) with compile/installer scripts.
bravo
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
I was quite happy with Windows NT - The first version of Windows that was stable ....
I upgraded to Windows 2000 because of the new interface and better tools
I upgraded to XP because I was promised better compatibility and a new user experience
I have one machine *still* running win2K because I hate the interface, and don't need the extra compatibility
Vista did not tempt me, W7 will not either ....
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
It's Simple. Lets look at it in Star Trek Film terms:
Windows 2/286 & The Motion Picture = Crap
Windows 3.x & The Wrath of Khaannnn = Good
Windows 95 & Search for Spock = Crap
Windows 98(SE) & The Voyage Home = Good
Windows ME & Final Frontier = Crap
Windows 2000/XP(1) & Undiscovered Country = Good
Windows Vista & Generations = Crap
Windows 7 & First Contact = Good
Which means...
Windows 8 & Insurrection = Crap
Windows 9 & Nemesis = Good
See? It's easy to work it out when you look at it :)
(1) I consider 2000/XP to be the same thing as they share the same underlying OS (and it also made my Trek metaphor work...)
-Jar
Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
Well, the whole story of Microsoft and piracy goes all the way back to its early, early days of BASIC on the MITS Altair. Bill Gates wrote his Open Letter to Hobbyists in 1976. The whole idea that software piracy is theft and indeed the entire concept of software piracy goes back to this letter.
Understand that before Bill Gates came along demanding money for Altair BASIC, in general, software was commonly and freely passed around. This is exactly what Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchey did with Unix and C starting around the early part of that same decade. Applications software was something you paid programmers to create for you in-house. Systems software came with the hardware. No one thought anything of passing software around. Bill Gates essentially single-handedly created the idea of retail software out of whole cloth.
So the anti-piracy stance is something that is and always has been part of the Microsoft ethos practically from day one. That's why I tend to doubt those who take Bill Gates quotes out of context and then turn around and say that Microsoft condones piracy. I don't think they do.
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Anyway, lots of instructions don't have you drop to the commandline. I've seen lots where they have you click to gedit to edit a configuration file. You are simply wrong.
I think, perhaps, you're missing the overall point here...
DING DING DING!!!!!! I sure wish I had mod points......Oh wait...I do....bummer....
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
The number of times I've had to use a CLI to fix something in Linux is about the same as the number of times I've had to use the Registry Editor to fix something in Windows.
Either you don't use Linux much, or you use Windows a helluva lot.
So I suppose I can switch your argument around a bit: The day that you can have a problem in Windows and can go to a forum and not get "Start > Run... > regedit" as the standard answer is that day that it might be ready for users.
Except resorting to regedit has never, ever been "the standard answer" on Windows forums, not even technically oriented ones.
I just found it to be a less polished Ubuntu (with more bugs).
I'd still recommend Ubuntu over Linux Mint, how hard is it to install Flash anyway?
Don't expect an unbiased review of the new Windows OS. This is a first hand account, no friend of a friend saying.
I work for a major newspaper in Canada, owned by a major media company. The guy who does the consumer electronics, computer reviews and stories took a buyout last year and is no longer beholding to the publishers rules. He freelances now but still contributes weekly to the newspaper chain.
A little while ago he came into the newsroom and started chatting. He was bragging about how he got a high end laptop loaded with the new windows OS to keep. That is right. Review the OS and keep the laptop.
Do you ever expect unbiased reviews when you end up getting four or five thousand dollars put into your pocket? Because he is not a full time employee of our company, he must figure that the rules of accepting anything more than a meal don't apply to him.
FWIW, this is unusual in the mainstream press in Canada. It is frowned upon but this guy has long had a reputation of being less than upstanding.
Yeah, I guess maybe Linux needs a nice user friendly interface to fix problems like windows. Seems like every time I have a problem with windows, when I call that 1900 number for tech support they always tell me to open the registry editor. Boy, that registry editor is so much more user friendly. And whenever I need to install something searching the internet for the installer and then running through the wizard where you have to click next a gazillion times and reboot and then close all the new nagboxes is so much easier than just typing "apt-get install [name-of-program]". Yeah, windows sure is better. Nice that it generally runs slow enough that I can keep up with it. Man, love that registry editor. Nothing like a thousand clicks to replace a good ol' trip to gedit and changing part of a line in a file. And I love overpaying for tech support too. Yep, sure am glad I never have to type 1 or 2 lines in bash once in a random occasion (and yes, it is possible to go without for normal use (mint, not ubuntu. more stuff works in mint.)). RegEdit is so much better indeed.
thats funny everytime i need to fix ppls windows remotely i make em bring up the CLI.
its so much easier to say type "blablabla" +enter
than go to menu xx click on zz add snapin yy and click th 293 button on the left then right click for context menu and use subitem 2093
yeah..
same reason people say "click terminal and copy paste this line"
cause its so much more simple
If you talk to a Windows repairman they'll tell you that like me they tried Linux and left because of something them just drove them batshit insane.
That's just a result from having Bill Gates' (or Steve Ballmer's) dick far down your throat already. Or was it maybe Bill Gates' dick down your throat and Steve Ballmer's dick up your a**?
Now go to the forums like a good Windows user would do and ask for help. Your answer will ALWAYS start with "Bring up Bash and....."
That's not because fixing stuff is impossible in the GUI, but because it is the simplest solution to describe in writing. If you want to describe how to do stuff in a way that even a noob can understand, you'll have to create screenshots and the like.
If you won't accept a CLI answer, I'm not going to care enough about your problem to take the time to create screenshots and the like. You either get the CLI solution, or none at all. Take your pick.
Gentoo has great documentation and is wonderful for learning Linux internals and such. It sucks for users who simply don't care how the computer works, only that it does. Ubuntu is a better choice for them.
Now go to the forums like a good Windows user would do and ask for help. Your answer will ALWAYS start with "Bring up Bash and....."
And it is at THAT moment you have lost.
An awful lot of MacOS fixes also require you to enter stuff in the terminal yet I hardly ever see Mac users complaining about having to learn how to use a command prompt. It's just there if you want or need it.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunix
Greatest OS ever?
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
YES! Thank you!
The day I don't have to open the cmd prompt on Windows or Regedit on Windows is when it is ready for market! Now we're talkin'.
Viva Ubuntu . . . and open source!
Most of the CLI commands/steps that the blue moon people will run into are well documented or not rare so if they google what they are trying to do they can get answers and how/what to type in.
It would be nice to be able to download a file, run it, and the CLI steps are done and the printer/fax/sound card/video card/what ever is now working. If that was the case, we might have linux == windows in usability. That would be a good thing. Then script kiddies might start loading up scripts that would fix the problem and add in a back door to root the box. So which would you rather have: a little bit harder and a safe OS or really easy and, well, windows?
I'm just wondering where you read about Starter Edition being meant for netbooks. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable claim, but I was under the impression that Starter Edition was for emerging markets and wouldn't be sold in developed countries. Did Microsoft and/or a netbook manufacturer announce that they intend to supply the machines with Starter Edition pre-installed?
Except resorting to regedit has never, ever been "the standard answer" on Windows forums, not even technically oriented ones.
However, it very often is "the standard answer" in Microsoft's own knowledge base articles. Those articles happen to commonly be the canonical source for the trickier problems.
To solve the icky issues in Windows, you need to muck about in the registry more often than you do not. Need I remind you how dangerous it is to muck about in the registry?
Five words: Lexmark all in one printer. You ever try to get one of those bastards to work in Linux? Good luck with that! And can you guess what the most popular consumer printer is? That's right, you guessed it!
Oh, you mean those printer which cost 20$ a piece, and after 2 months will cost a whole 200$ *PER INK-CARTRIDGE* just to re-fill the ink ?!?
Seriously man, if you try to help your users use Lexmark printers, you're doing them a DISSERVICE !
It's just criminal for you to let your clients buy this crap.
Most of these pieces of junk which use ink cartridges with built-in proprietary print heads are just a PITA in the long term. The costs for ink are horribly high. And drivers tend to break after major OS change (but the average windows users are used to re-buy everything on major upgrades).
You should prefer something more standard that uses cheap plain ink or even better laser. It costs more upfront, but over the time the ink is order of magnitutde cheaper. And most of these non "lock-in maniacal" printers tend to speak standard protocols and thus are also better supported in Linux and have a higher chance of being better supported through generic drivers in the next revision of Windows.
If the users *really-really-really* want printers that are cheaper that their own ink (which I personaly find stupid : you buy a printer only once, but buy constantly ink during the lifetime of the machine - cost per page is much more important than initial cost), at least advise them to buy HP's inkjet crap.
It's similar lock-in marketed (if your users as so much into BDSM). But at least for the past several years they've spoken a standardized protocol (PCL) are better supported across major upgrades (and, you guessed it, happen to also have a better Linux support).
But you should get shot, hanged and drowned for letting your users buy a Lexmark.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
"web-sights"
web sites.
I have to disagree with you _entirely_.
I've grown up with Windows, and I've used the Registry Editor maybe half a dozen times in my Lifetime... and most of those were just to do cool tricks like change the start menu icon. Most other things are fixed by hitting up the control panel, installing new drivers, messing with the active devices, and usually downloading and installing patches.
I've used Ubunutu for about 2 years, and its CLI almost every day.
Grandparent has a point, and I think it can be summed up like as this: Linux needs a REAL "Control Panel." The one that they have now is too shaky and doesn't cover enough ground.
Shouldn't you be on the ledge of a building somewhere...
Get a fscking clue here people, This "leak" is a marketing project from the word go.
Step 1: Build a virtually-nonfunctional but highly stable show-off OS with all of the important (and wildly unstable) compatibility turned off.
Step 2: Leak said software as your next great release and bemoan the loss of your great surprise unveiling.
Step 3: Pay lots of reviewers to fill comment sites about how terrific the fantastic OS is before most have ever seen it.
Step 4: Enjoy a *positive* rollout on the heals of your abomination of a release called 'Vista' and that horseshit "not vista" campaign that followed.
Step 4.5: ...
Step 5: Profit
> I have one machine *still* running win2K because I hate the interface
Did you know that, in Windows XP, you can switch back to the Windows 2000 interface (visual theme).
Have you heard of OSX? I doubt most Mac users spend too much time in the CLI.
It's been said before, but the reason (good or bad) that the standard response begins with "bring up a terminal" is not often because it can't be done via GUI. The reason is that saying, "Press alt+F2 and run 'nm-applet'," is far easier than saying, "Click Start, then Control Panel. Now click Administrative Tools, then Services. Now look for 'Wireless Zero Configuration', right click it, and hit start."
Why, oh, why *must* GNU/Linux cover more ground? Why must every desktop use it? GNU/Linux is FOSS which means it doesn't require users/slaves that pays money all the time, right? Just a humble thought.
Different selection of a certain bell-curve? :P
Uuuuhhhh.......Hate to inform you dude, but Walgreen's refills them for a whole $10 a cart. And they get a printer/scanner/fax for $30. That is lexmark is #1 around here. Now go price a Linux all in one.....It's okay I'll wait..........It's about 4 times the above price, isn't it? The cheapest i was able to find one that was supposed to work in Kubuntu was for $98. There is a big difference between $30 and $98, especially when you are living on the margins like most shops are.
And are you actually advising me to tell customers to buy a laser printer. Are you high? The cheapest color laser is over $300! That is TEN TIMES the price! And you expect folks are going to do that for the privilege of running an OS they never heard of that none of their apps run on? Can I have some of what you are smoking?
If folks want to know why you will never get the shops on your side THIS right here is the answer. Because when we go on the forums trying to solve a legitimate problem we get told "tell them to buy a real printer..Lol Lusers". Folks still have the balls to say Linux is ready to be sold at retail when one of the largest brands in the entire country won't work in Linux? Are you going to set up a 24/7 Linux apology line and take those millions of now useless printers and recycle them? This is why MSFT rules the home desktop and will for the foreseeable future. Because when a guy like me who frankly Linux needs a lot more of selling the product on actual shelves instead of online where nobody can see it work, talks about legitimate problems we get remarks like the one above, or the one above that accusing me of a three way with Gates and Ballmer(thanks for that image asshole).
If you want Linux to succeed then just stop. Stop pretending the problems don't exist, stop blaming the customer when your OS don't work. If I was to try that how long do you think I would be in business? Now you know why I don't sell Linux. Admit the problems and rally the developers to come up with a solution. It don't have to be pretty, hell it don't even have to support more than one revision. I'm sure the users wouldn't mind not upgrading CUPS if it meant their printer will actually print, along with the scanner scanning and the fax faxing. Somehow you guys have managed to defeat the Winmodem and the Winwireless, now you have to defeat the Winprinter. Because if you don't you can kiss market penetration goodbye. MSFT has done taken the Netbooks away from you. But in this economy there is a lot of shops that would be happy to learn Linux so they could sell low cost machines. But until a company as large and as popular with the consumer as Lexmark is supported it just isn't worth the support nightmare. I bet if you asked Walmart that is why they don't carry the gOS PC anymore. Too hard to explain to the customers that none of the printers they buy there will actually work with their new PC. This can be done. But it requires that the elitist attitude gets shitcanned and that developers are actually willing to help Linux succeed. The ball is in your court.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Except nobody actually uses those KB things. Have you tried to read one? Japanese stereo instructions are more clear and concise than that. They either go to a forum filled with "power users" where there is some guy who has run into this before and "knows a trick" that can fix it or they take it to a shop that makes it "go away". For example a problem I have run into often is Windows not seeing the audio even with the driver installed. It simply says "no hardware". So when I was working on one of those forums me and another guy cooked up a .reg file that they could simply download and run that fixed the reg problem with the audio service. No need to actually know how to do anything-just clicky clicky,reboot, and voila! If they don't go that route they have the choice of "power users" in the family or the friendly repair shop down the street.
Now let us compare this to a 'best case" scenario for someone new to Linux. They find their stuff don't work and are told to "bring up bash..." and then you are going to have to explain to the what Bash is, what it does, how to use it, etc. Of course by then the snarky ones have gotten on and are telling them to "RTFM..LOL..Luser" or like I was talking of my own experience "tell them to buy another printer...LOL...Winblowz". And then they bring it to a guy like me to wipe and put Windows on it. Because the simple fact is even during the bad old days when I was working a chat room for Windows 9x problems from work I can't think of a single time I told anyone to open regedit. Either myself or one of the other mods would be happy to cook up the reg file and send it to them. And as another poster pointed out you simply can't do that with .sh and Linux. But saying that those crap KB pages is what a Windows user will use is like saying all the Linux user gets is a Man page. Nobody uses either one.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
By the way, I've never heard of Lunix. Would you care to explain what it is?
UNIX for the C64.
And this is the exact reason why Linux will never catch on with non technical people..... that kind of attitude.
You either get an OS that is techie used only or have to care enough to spend more time helping others.. Take your pick..
http://www.tomandemily.com
The New Coke / Coke Classic scam was so Coca-Cola could switch from using cane sugar to sweeten their cokes to using high fructose corn syrup.
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
You might have missed the fact that there was an official, non-leaked build of Windows 7 available before, and all the positive reviews and such so far were using that, and not this new leaked build.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Just when I think I've come across the dumbest person in the world... I read a post like yours.
To be fair, opening a config file isn't nearly as daunting to a user as using the command line. They are already familiar with finding and opening files.
The other point is very important, too. A registry fix usually has a little .reg out there, and the user just double-clicks it, and that's it. A .sh file is analogous to some .bat hack someone wrote to fix something in Windows. It may work most of the time, but it takes a lot more effort to create. Even with that comparison, there are only a few versions of windows, but countless linux distros. I will even submit that it's much easier to create a VBScript file to fix or change something in Windows than it is to make a shell file or perl script to fix or change something in linux.
And if we're talking about barely-clued users prowling through support forums, something you can just double-click is an amazing resource, versus having to try and follow dodgy instructions on how to use the command line.
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
No, but you might suggest a Kodak printer instead, which costs a little more upfront, but has sanely-priced ink. The other problem with the lexmarks is that they suck. That can't be overlooked, either.
I don't know the state of linux drivers for Kodak, though. I do know that HP makes good, reasonably-priced printers, and they are known for linux support. The ink is a little costly, but like you said, the refill business is booming. I hope it forces printer manufacturers back to a more honest business model.
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
Because of that attitude, the users will pick Windows.
Like what? "An awful lot" implies you'll have an awful lot of examples to offer.
If you want proof, here it is. Pretend to be an Ubuntu user. Ubuntu is a friendly Linux distro that doesn't need CLI, right? Install it to a PC. Now let us say that something doesn't work. You are completely free to pick the something: Network/Audio/Video/multi card reader, whatever. Now go to the forums like a good Windows user would do and ask for help. Your answer will ALWAYS start with "Bring up Bash and....."
And it is at THAT moment you have lost. You have failed, the game is over, the fat lady has sung, please hit the lights on your way out. You will NEVER get your average Windows user to use CLI. Hell even the power users usually avoid it like an STD. Believe me, of this I know. As a Windows repairman with over 15 years in the biz I have tried teaching a little CLI to users. It is not going to happen cap'n. They don't WANT to learn the CLI, they HATE the CLI, and frankly the vast majority doesn't even know that Windows HAS a CLI, because in Windows you can always do what you need to by GUI. But it just ain't so in Linux.
But people are encouraged to open up the registry and made changes?
I'll second that.
As a windows power-user and a geek since well before the windows days (Ive still got my TRS-80) I am not afraid of a CLI by any stretch. But it seems like every time i monkey with a linux problem & the answer deals with CLI... I may as well hang it up, because if the solution is that complex, its probably not going to work anyway.
Dozens of times ive tried to make the switch over to various distros, & it seems theres always some aspect of my hardware that shit gets fucked up on... I apparently have some pretty odd hardware, many distros wont handle my dual-display properly, some get confused about my onboard soundcard (which is disabled in BIOS but still manages to fuck linux up anyway)
Anyway, ill usually spend a week or so twiddling with this and that, trying to get everything to work at once (once i finally fixed my sound problem only to discover that the solution somehow buggered up my network connection) but in my experience even when i follow CLI instructions TO THE LETTER, it usually still doesnt work.
Im no command-line newbie, i spent a great number of years computing with little more than dos & a few batch files... but linux's CLI isnt nearly as user friendly as DOS is/was. Its horribly confusing, and like i said, in my experience any solution that requires going to CLI is 99% guaranteed to not work.
Additionally editing configs seems to be just as hit-or-miss. most of the time when i edit a config (just like it said to do on the walkthru or whatever) it results in some corruption here or there, stuff stops working, and in some cases ive had to do a complete reinstall to get the OS running again.
I guess im just doing it wrong, but when i see i have to go into a CLI to fix something, im not intimidated or anything, just disappointed that whatever problem im working on just cant be solved.
The problem with your argument is this: and it is another really big problem with Linux. With Windows they often don't HAVE to use reg edit, even for a nasty problem. Why? Because there is usually an uncle/cousin/nephew who is a "power user" and has no problem doing that for them.
This is like saying "using linux isn't a problem because there's a linux expert hanging around that helped them install it to begin with"...
Five words: Lexmark all in one printer. You ever try to get one of those bastards to work in Linux? Good luck with that!
As I just pointed out there is a whole class of consumer product that you will be lucky to get to work at all in Linux.
Funny, I have a HP 5600 all-in-one printer that was specifically designed for a Windows environment, yet it barely works in Windows 2000 (if at all). And yes, that's using HP's official Windows 2000 drivers.
Microsoft's drivers were non-existent.
Is it the fault of Linux? Nope, not at all. But consumers don't care. They want it to work or they are wanting their money back.
Except they can't get their money back. Read the EULA sometime. This is not a new situation either; it's been ongoing for over a decade.
It is TOO powerful for them.
Spot on. You're giving them a whole-hog instead of a toy power drill. Frankly, they shouldn't be using it, someone might poke their eye out.
But regedit has a graphical interface. Its actually a very straightforward and simple way to edit a hugely complex part of the OS. Can you imagine trying to navigate that mess from a CLI?
Just. Wow. I spend time in Windows forums. In Microsoft's Vista forum there are 356 pages of entries. If you search for regedit you get less than one page of results. 'Nuff said.
For me (browsing at -1) the first post is a "Lunix sucks" anti-Linux post. At the time GP and I wrote our comments, it was moderated to -1(redundant). My post, and presumably GP's post, were comments about "redundant" being the wrong moderation.
BTW it is moderated to -1(Troll) now. On second thought, this fits even better than "offtopic".
C - the footgun of programming languages
Then all the people who are pouring money into it would vanish. You think you can create an OS without money? Try paying the bandwidth fees yourself. Or try paying the kernel developers. Linux is FAR FAR FAR from being developed inside some basement. Big name companies pour millions into it. IIRC Almost a billion has been poured into Linux to date.
Its not a "hobby" and "freedom" OS any more. Its been thoroughly corporatized. The moment corporates stop footing these massive bills is the day linux dies.
"servers are CLI based"
Huh? Who has set that rule??
"what good is a PC that you can't print from"
Right. I cannot think of a single use for a PC that doesn't involve printing!
Until GMail Paper launches for real...
If the printer is cheaper than the ink, then why not just buy a new printer when it's time to change the ink? A lot of printer sales and no ink sales will send quite a strong message to the manufacturer...
(1)DOCOMEFROM!2~.2'~#1WHILE:1<-"'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"
M$ Windoze just isn't ready for the desktop yet. It may be ready for the malware servers that you M$ addicts use to distribute Pron and personal information across teh intarwebs, but the average computer user is sick of spending months reinstalling M$ Windoze and then hours reinstalling non-free software so that they can get a workable machine to check their mail with just to get it pwned once again in a few weeks, especially not when they can get a workable GNU/Linux machine that already does its job perfectly well and is backed by freedom, stability, and security; as opposed to M$ Windoze which is only supported by M$ and char-throwing execs. The last thing I want is a chair-throwing fucktard providing me my OS which can be pwned in a mere minutes.
--
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Friends do assist M$ addicted friends in committing suicide.
Same here. I've learned from trying to install once gentoo more then I've learned installing any other distro. And I plan to do it again. But first I want to setup a small NAS, but I can't decide what to use.
The "Classic Style" is NOT the same as the Windows 2000 interface .....
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