Japanese "Hate" For the iPhone All a Big Mistake

MBCook writes "AppleInsider has posted a great article explaining that Wired's story about Japanese iPhone hate was completely false and has been edited at least twice. The comments in the article were recycled and taken out of context, with those interviewed blogging about the mistakes. The piece then goes on to analyze the iPhone's standing in Japan, as well as some of the major factors working for and against it. At last it points out that the Wall Street Journal tried the same myth of failure just after the phone's launch in Japan, recycled from a myth the year before, pushed by a research company with a possible anti-Apple agenda."

Comments

Everyone hates congress too

[peektwice]

but they keep re-electing their congressmen. Same thing applies here.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[gravos]

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products? Apple absolutely dominates the MP3 category with the iPod here, and the Macbooks sell like gangbusters. US cars don't sell well because a) they don't sell well in the US either b) half of the overseas models don't even come in RHD versions. Of course they don't sell. I won't consider an iPhone for all the reasons others have listed. Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Jurily]

but they keep re-electing their congressmen. Same thing applies here.

Are these people elected? You're right bout the lack of responsibility though.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[rolfwind]

That makes absolutely no sense. And out of that bunch, this article was the most interesting to read:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/02/28/japanese_hate_for_iphone_all_a_big_mistake.html

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[tjstork]

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products? Apple absolutely dominates the MP3 category with the iPod here, and the Macbooks sell like gangbusters.

US cars don't sell well because a) they don't sell well in the US either b) half of the overseas models don't even come in RHD versions. Of course they don't sell.

I won't consider an iPhone for all the reasons others have listed. Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products?

Because its not a myth. By and large, it is easy to bring goods into the USA because the USA has a tradition of a generally free trading country. Do a google and see what's involved into bringing goods from the USA into Japan, and then see what's involved in vice versa. If they wanted to bring in more competition and other goods, you'd see those doors being opened. But they aren't.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[TubeSteak]

Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

Because the iPhone is a status symbol and your SoftBank isn't.

Like I said in the last thread, I was traveling overseas when it came out and people were going crazy for it.
Why would anyone buy a 2G phone in a country(s) blanketed by 3G towers?
People who want to show off their wealth.
/Not to mention that SoftBank phones are all just rebadged from major manufacturers.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Reality Master 101]

Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

The reason I bought it was that it had one feature that actually worked, unlike other phones -- a web browser that didn't suck. I had been waiting for that for a LONG time.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[beelsebob]

Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?
Because less is often more.

Take for example the most commonly cited complaint about the iPhone â" no MMS. Why would you want MMS? You have email. All MMS does is adds another option to the menu system and makes life more complex. Not only that but because there's no fixed standard, it more often than not sends messages that the receiving phone can't read. And finally, MMS is massively more costly to send than email.

So there you go, you'd buy something with fewer features, because often, fewer features but well implemented is better.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[commodore64_love]

Status symbols are for fools. I have no interest in "keeping up with the Joneses" or even what they think about me using some ten-year-old phone. Most of today's economic recession was caused by people boring money they didn't have to try to impress others with shiny new gadgets/homes. AKA fools.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[DNS-and-BIND]

You know, I've often thought that "newspaper editor" should be an elected position. It's at least as important as any elected official, and the way that newspapers are slanted these days needs some new faces and fresh viewpoints.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[pohl]

Do trade barriers count as "cultural opposition", though? Political and economic opposition, sure. But cultural?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

wtf bullshit... do a google search? you do a google search, and then give us links; don't just make unfounded claims. USA has plenty of trade barriers and domestic subsidies, while denying their smaller trade partners the same

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[hitmark]

complex? depends.

with mms you do not have to know two pieces of info about a person. only one, the phone number...

there is a standard, but its largely ignored as its somewhat outdated (most specific in its image size limitation).

and i have yet to see a mms that a reasonably modern phone cant read. now, if you send from a recently bought phone to a phone that was new when mms was first introduced, you may have issues. but hey, thats always a problem with legacy equipment.

as for price, not a tech issue, but a greedy operator issue. if they could get away with it, they would nail a special pr message email rate on their plans...

all in all i suspect its a culture thing more then a tech thing tho.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[MrMista_B]

...except they don't.

In case you didn't notice, a little while back, Congress went from mostly Republican, to mostly Democrat.

I'd hardly call that 're-electing' their congressmen.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Runaway1956]

Status symbol? How frigging juvenile. Not to mention outright STUPID. But, what can be expected of a culture that admires reality TV, the Biggest Losers, and American Idol. Sweet Jesus, no wonder the economy is such a mess - - -

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[machine321]

You know, I've often thought that "newspaper editor" should be an elected position.

It is an elected position... elected by the newspaper owner.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[beelsebob]

with mms you do not have to know two pieces of info about a person. only one, the phone number...
Yes, but then if your phone has a well designed address book (like the iPhone) then all you need is one piece â" their name.

if you send from a recently bought phone to a phone that was new when mms was first introduced, you may have issues. but hey, thats always a problem with legacy equipment.
Really? I can send email to machines from the 1990s and they'll read it just fine!

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Mr. Slippery]

Apple absolutely dominates the MP3 category with the iPod here, and the Macbooks sell like gangbusters.

Where's "here" for you? I saw so many tiny cheap music players in Osaka's Den-den town that I'd have to question any iPod dominance. But yes, Macs did seem to be common, and the Apple store doing good business.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[mdwh2]

Because the iPhone is a status symbol and your SoftBank isn't.

Ladies and Gentlemen, next time you hear someone saying that people don't buy the Iphone to be cool, we can all reference the parent post.

(I dispute that anyway. Sure, you might think it's a status symbol when you get it out and say "Look everyone, I'm dialing numbers and talking to someone who isn't here on my IpHoNe - isn't that cool?" but the rest of us just use our phones without making a fuss about it, suggesting we don't care. After all, if we did, we'd buy one too.)

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[filthpickle]

This is the same reson I got it. And I haven't been disappointed at all...and I just paid the bill about 2 minutes ago.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[mdwh2]

Status symbols are for fools. I have no interest in "keeping up with the Joneses" or even what they think about me using some ten-year-old phone.

I entirely agree. Although having said that, I always love it when I show that my crappy old cheap phone can still do the features that they've just bragged about their Iphone doing.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[mdwh2]

Yes, but then if your phone has a well designed address book (like the iPhone) then all you need is one piece â" their name.

That's not what he means. If you know someone's number, but not their email (either on your phone, or at all), then even with the best address book ever (like the Motorola V980), it won't help you.

Also the problem is that many people don't have phones that can read email attachments.

Really? I can send email to machines from the 1990s and they'll read it just fine!

Well, that's very handy for contacting all those people who lug 1990-era PCs around with them! Who needs a phone, I'll just log on with my 286! Oh wait, I don't have an Internet connection, so how will that help you anyway?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Mr. Slippery]

In 2006 -- the year that Congress went from GOP to Democratic control -- there were 33 Senate races. Six Republican incumbents and no Democratic incumbents were defeated. There were three open seats. So 24 Senators out of 33 were re-elected.

In the House, twenty-two GOP incumbents got the boot and there 34 open seats (including primary election losers); 379 out of 435 got re-elected.

So in a particularly "revolutionary" and "tumultuous" election, 72% of Senators and 87% of Representatives were re-elected.

I'd have to call that people "re-electing" their congressmen.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Except, for better or for worse, phone e-mail is what's popular in Japan. Changing that would be like trying to get Americans to quit sending each other text messages and start using phone e-mail.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[tjstork]

wtf bullshit... do a google search? you do a google search, and then give us links; don't just make unfounded claims.

Look, if you don't know how to use Google, then, I really don't need to rationalize anything for you, do I?

IF there is one achilles heel in the Japanese domestic market that Americans have a good brand name in, its housing. For all of its other good points, Japanese housing sucks compared to American housing. You would think an American company could export a house to Japan.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Archimonde]

You are missing the point of what MMS is (or was) all about. It is very similar to instant/push e-mail. You can write as many text as you want, add some pictures and recipient will get the message virtually instantly, *on their mobile phone*. I can imagine that the e-mail is clearly superior if you have push system installed (exchange, mobileme, whatever) and you receive the e-mail immediately. But, if I'm not very much mistaken, large majority of mobile phones don't have push mail. I can see "smartphones" fairly frequently, but a very small fragment of those people even know about push mail, even less than those have it configured to work that way. I'm talking about Croatia here though, it probably is different from country to country.

I'm all for using e-mail for text communication between mobile phones but telecoms don't think the same. Apart of the push mail problem, the data charges are extremely expensive (especially for teens who probably send pics more than other part of population) so you are left with sms (which is not that much expensive, user-wise), and mms for sending your pics. MMS in the beginning was very expensive but they did lower the price a bit, but my observation is that it is seldom used.

My point is that the MMS is the push mail for the majority of people with non-push mail mobile phones. It is a bit arrogant in a way not to include it in the default sms iphone app. Other mobile phones handle mms pretty much as the sms with attachments. That means you don't need to have special mms apps nor additional interface bloat. I personally don't miss mms much on my iphone, but I do hate it when somebody asks "have you seen the $cool_picture, I've sent you 10 minutes ago?".

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Archimonde]

If e-mail is so much better (and I agree, with that part), why does the iphone have SMS?

If e-mail is better than MMS, then it must be better than SMS too. One could consider MMS legacy they don't want to support. But why support SMS then? Is there a reason why would you support only one part of the "legacy" system, and the other part you discard even though 99% of other mobile phones support it?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[taskiss]

"Look, if you don't know how to use Google, then, I really don't need to rationalize anything for you, do I?"

tjstork, the person making the claims is the one needing to substantiate those claims, not the one challenging them.

You were wrong when you identified a trade barrier as a cultural one, now you're trying to avoid responsibility for making unsubstantiated assertions.

As of this moment, you've shown no basis for your opinion. Someone telling you "Put up or shut up" would be entirely justified in doing so.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Savage-Rabbit]

So there you go, you'd buy something with fewer features, because often, fewer features but well implemented is better..

That pretty much sums up the iPod/iPhone's appeal. Not that the feature crazy among us will ever understand why.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that a joke? The American houses are bigger, sure. But you can't export that. I'd take a Japanese-built house over an American-built one any day.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[wlt]

this is a guy you'd know, otherwise you wouldn't have his phone number (and in any case, he wouldn't want to get your MMS if he doesn't know you). if it's an MMS worth sending, why not just call/message him and ask him for his email address? And once you've got it you don't need to ask him again (same as how you got his phone number in the first place)

(there's actually a practical problem here in the iPhone's lack of copy-paste, but that's another matter :-)

Yes, but then if your phone has a well designed address book (like the iPhone) then all you need is one piece â" their name.

That's not what he means. If you know someone's number, but not their email (either on your phone, or at all), then even with the best address book ever (like the Motorola V980), it won't help you.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do people keep believing the myth that truthful, objective journalism is well in America? Wired has always been a pompous self-impressed rag, not least because it always gave me migraines to read it.

Objective truth is possible, and extant. But you're not going to find it in the established newspapers, periodicals or TV/radio networks. Money and politics controls them; not ethics.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[beelsebob]

Because the number of phones that can receive emails is roughly the same as the number of phones that can receive MMS, while the number of phones that can receive SMS is massively higher. I fully expect SMS to disappear in favor of an instant messaging app on the iPhone in a few years.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[MrCrassic]

Then how do you explain the inability to delete ALL SMS or mark ALL email messages as read? This still doesn't answer back the missing copy and paste.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[beelsebob]

(there's actually a practical problem here in the iPhone's lack of copy-paste, but that's another matter :-)
Actually, in this case, this won't come in, because the iPhone will recognise the email address as such and let you add it to your contacts from there. But yes, I do think the lack of copy/paste is one of the iPhones few *actual* handicaps.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Val314]

Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

I had a "smartphone" a view years ago that had pretty much everything: GPS, web browser, UMTS,...
But nothing was usable. it was expensive, slow, confusing, huge, crashed constantly and had a poor battery life.

I've switched to a "dump" phone that can do one thing: make phone calls (and Sync with my Computer)

So (for me) more features are not important. it has to have the right features and those have to work.

(and no, i wont buy an iPhone anytime soon, because its plans are way to expensive)

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[ScrewMaster]

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products? Apple absolutely dominates the MP3 category with the iPod here, and the Macbooks sell like gangbusters.

US cars don't sell well because a) they don't sell well in the US either b) half of the overseas models don't even come in RHD versions. Of course they don't sell.

I won't consider an iPhone for all the reasons others have listed. Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products?

Because its not a myth. By and large, it is easy to bring goods into the USA because the USA has a tradition of a generally free trading country. Do a google and see what's involved into bringing goods from the USA into Japan, and then see what's involved in vice versa. If they wanted to bring in more competition and other goods, you'd see those doors being opened. But they aren't.

Bad example. Japan doesn't want anyone (U.S. or otherwise) entering their country at will and damaging their domestic industries. You know, like we let them do to us. I know you want to show that there's a specific bias against U.S. products, but you'll have to do better than that.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

From what I could tell (from internet, since I haven't been there) is that there isn't that much cultural opposition in Japan. They seem happy to accept things from foriegners in that regard. (They had no problems taking in Victorian influences when they industrialized, and likewise other western ideas post WWII and currently.) It's just that they take what parts they like and remix it completely into its own weird-ified Japanese equivalent. Look how well they accepted a corporate icon like Ronald McDonald and made it their own for instance.

Now where I'd see "cultural opposition" is in parts of the mideast. They're happy and open to trade and goods, but try bringing up anything involving some aspects of western style freedoms -- you might want to duck a shoe or two, if not running away from an all-out stoning. Even simple things like equality and freedom of speech/thought don't seem to go all that well in some places over there.

As for the iPhone in Japan, they don't so much hate it as rather they have better options already. It's like trying to give a wind-up toy to to a kid that has really cool R/C robots n' stuff.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[cybernanga]

Just an example of when MMS is better option:

I'm selling something, via ebay, classified ad, craigslist etc. I receive a phone call from some random interested party who has some questions about the item for sale. I figure the best way to answer his question is to send him a picture.

I have his number, so it's easy to send him an MMS. all I have to do is ask if he can receive MMS.

Without MMS, I have to ask him for his email address, and have to remember/write it down somewhere (no copy/paste on iPhone), or get him to send me a text message with his email address. This just adds more steps to the equation.

Additionally, they may not be able to receive email on their phone, or even if they can, they may not have it set up to do so. which means they have to wait until they get to a computer to see the pic, by which time, the item may have already been sold.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I can send email to machines from the 1990s and they'll read it just fine!

Yes - when the owner gets round to checking their e-mail. The most interesting part of MMS is that it combines rich content similar to HTML mail with the speed of SMS.

Push-based e-mail is nowhere near as broadly supported on handsets released over the past 5 years.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Galactic Dominator]

Why not?

If barriers exists that limit the exchange of ideas and customs, why would that not be considered a cultural barrier?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Because it's not a myth."

And how ma' brotha! Someday I hope there will be McDonald's restaurants all over the world, that Marlboro cigarettes will be prized by overseas citizens, and that Levi's will be a world reknowned brand, but until then, we just have to accept the truth and stop thinking it is a myth!

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

the number of phones that can receive emails is roughly the same as the number of phones that can receive MMS

I can't believe you just said that. You must really have drunk the kool-aid.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Why would you want MMS? You have email.

It actually turns out that it is not good enough to have E-Mail, the other person with whom I wish to communicate needs to have it too. Since that is often not the case, MMS is extremely useful, and you just gave me reason 1001 why the G1/Android Platform is far superior to the iPhone.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[seventhevening]

I have been there. I never saw any cultural opposition at all. The iPod was popular there, mcdonalds is pretty popular (and has some cool exclusive menu items), several english books were recently translated into Japanese and were very popular. Hollywood movies can perform well in Japanese box office. MLB seems to be more popular there than here. I think really the Japanese applaud things that are new or that fit the attributes they want. Where it comes from isn't that important. We just like playing a xenophobe card everytime the iPhone doesn't do well because it lacks features the Japanese want, or when the Xbox and 360 sell poorly because it lacks the kinds of titles the Japanese like best. It strikes me as extremely arrogant to complain that the only reason a product designed by the mighty Americans isn't selling MUST be because of xenophobia and couldn't be because they just don't WANT it.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[drinkypoo]

Take for example the most commonly cited complaint about the iPhone â" no MMS. Why would you want MMS? You have email.

I don't have email on my phone. If you want to send me text, you're going to have to send me a SMS. (I don't pay for MMS...)

The end of SMS and MMS can't come soon enough. But it hasn't come yet...

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you want MMS? You have email.

But other people may not have e-mail. So if you want to send something to someone else, all they may have is MMS. What then?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Zero__Kelvin]

"and i have yet to see a mms that a reasonably modern phone cant read. now, if you send from a recently bought phone to a phone that was new when mms was first introduced, you may have issues. but hey, thats always a problem with legacy equipment."

"Really? I can send email to machines from the 1990s and they'll read it just fine!"

If you send E-Mail conforming to RFC 822 you'll be fine, bit if it uses MIME (RFC 1521) you will have at best a 50/50 chance. You see the MIME standard wasn't written until 1993, and it wasn't deployed instantaneously and globally. But hey, thats always a problem with legacy equipment^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H software.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Zero__Kelvin]

"this is a guy you'd know, otherwise you wouldn't have his phone number"

Yes. I see your point. If only there was some way to discover a phone number without having to know the person or company personally!

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Darkness404]

Why would you want MMS? You have email.

Lets say I have a picture I want to show someone, this someone doesn't have a smartphone so no instantly getting e-mails on their phone. If I send them a MMS, they will get the picture on their phone in 1-2 minutes. Replace picture with video and its the same thing. Sure, e-mail is "better" but unless everyone I know carries around a BlackBerry or iPhone, MMS is the only way for them to instantly get pictures.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[jaavaaguru]

Everyone I know has a phone that can do email, and GMail is available for some of the older Nokias too. Anyway, if I'm taking a photo and want a friend to see it, it'll go directly to Flickr, Facebook or TwitPic. I wouldn't want to email it to someone or MMS it. And my Blackberry handes that just fine. No iPhone required there :-)

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[JimboFBX]

My problem with mms is that I dont like looking at blurry postage stamp sized pictures and 5 second video clips.

And actually, the iphone indirectly supports MMS because you get a text message and link that works in the web browser. Just click the link, then practice having good memory as you have to memorize an 9 digit alpha-numeric username and 2 word + 1 digit password. Instantly shows up in the web browser if you got it right, which is undoubtedly the hardest part of the process. It also expires in a week unfortunately.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason I bought it was that it had one feature that actually worked, unlike other phones -- a web browser that didn't suck. I had been waiting for that for a LONG time.

That depends on your criteria for a non-sucky browser, I guess. Other phones (that support J2ME) have Opera Mini, which was released in a much-improved version 4 shortly after the iPhone was announced.

With Opera Mini the pages are compressed on Opera's servers before they're tranferred to the phone, which makes things a lot faster than on the iPhone. It's also much, much cheaper to use if you don't want to pay for unlimited data transfer. Safari is nicer to use, of course, but it's not unequivocally better.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Darkness404]

Because the number of phones that can receive emails is roughly the same as the number of phones that can receive MMS,

Errr... No. While a lot of phones can use e-mail, few can use push e-mail like the iPhone and BlackBerry. In fact, taking out the iPhone, BlackBerry and some other smartphones (Android, Windows Mobile, Symbian), the list is very short. Compare that to where every phone made in the last ~5 years can get MMS messages, from low-end freebies to the latest in technology (obviously excluding the iPhone).

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Lars T.]

Bad example. Japan doesn't want anyone (U.S. or otherwise) entering their country at will and damaging their domestic industries.

Quite unlike the USA.

Why yes, I was being sarcastic.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

... foriegners ...

Another victim of the "i" before "e" except after "c" rule.

Don't these foreigners know about the weird science that is English syntax?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Reality Master 101]

Other phones (that support J2ME) have Opera Mini [opera.com], which was released in a much-improved version 4 shortly after the iPhone was announced.

I haven't used Opera Mini, but keep in mind that it's not just about the browser software. I think a very underrated part of the iPhone experience that people don't appreciate is the multi-touch screen and the integration with it.

What makes the browser so reasonable to use is the fact that you can instantly pan with one finger and adjust the zoom with two fingers in a very intuitive way (note the iPhone can scale the whole browser image to any width). This is critical when you're dealing with a small form factor. And don't underestimate things like double-tapping a part of the screen, which makes it instantly scale the window to the size of the screen. It's just the whole experience is incredibly well done.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Lars T.]

Without MMS, I have to ask him for his email address, and have to remember/write it down somewhere (no copy/paste on iPhone), or get him to send me a text message with his email address. This just adds more steps to the equation.

Actually, you could just ask them to send an MMS to your email address, and then reply. Heck, tell them to contact you that way instead of publishing your phone number where every phone spammer can see it.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Veggiesama]

Status symbols are for fools. I have no interest in "keeping up with the Joneses" or even what they think about me using some ten-year-old phone. Most of today's economic recession was caused by people boring money they didn't have to try to impress others with shiny new gadgets/homes. AKA fools.

Correction: most of today's economic recession was caused by profit-driven lenders allowing people to borrow money and purchase homes that were beyond their means.

You can't fault people for taking a good opportunity when they see it (stupid people or not), but you CAN fault snake oil salesmen for knowingly pushing shitty products onto stupid people for short-term gain.

I don't mind fools as much as I mind people taking advantage of fools.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[esocid]

several english books were recently translated into Japanese and were very popular

You mean Super Karate Monkey Death Car?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Owned.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

> Because less is often more.
The RDF is big in this one.

> Why would you want MMS? You have email.
Because email needs a wifi connection or a 3g connection. These do not exist unless you are in a highly dense population. For alot of people this is not often the case.

> All MMS does is adds another option to the menu system and makes life more complex.
It only makes life more complicated because you don't have it default to begin with. If it is simple to send MMS with other phones and yet "complicated" with the iPhone, what does it say about the design?

> And finally, MMS is massively more costly to send than email.
Is this the case in Japan? Are you sure about this?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Because, we are talking about Japan. MMS is generally free between phones of the same carrier (read: families have the same carrier). Email on the other hand uses "packets". Your phone bill is calculated by how many "packets" you send a month. Different country different system. Look it up.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[mdwh2]

Everyone I know has a phone that can do email

Good for you. How does that help me when I want to show an image quickly to a friend, who doesn't have email on their phone?

Anyway, if I'm taking a photo and want a friend to see it, it'll go directly to Flickr, Facebook or TwitPic.

Not all of the photos I might want to show someone, are necessarily ones I want the whole world to see ... and anyhow, that still misses the point - if their phone doesn't support email with attachments, it probably doesn't do browsing of Facebook very well either.

Sure, email might be a preferable system to MMS. But until every phone in existence supports that, it's not a good thing to throw away compatibility.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[mdwh2]

this is a guy you'd know, otherwise you wouldn't have his phone number

Well, there are many people for whom I have their numbers in my phone, but not their emails.

if it's an MMS worth sending, why not just call/message him and ask him for his email address?

Because it's simpler to just send it and expect it to Just Work. I thought that was what was supposed to be so great about the Iphone? - And here we are proposing workarounds such as having to call them and get them to tell you extra details for it to work...

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Scrameustache]

By and large, it is easy to bring goods into the USA because the USA has a tradition of a generally free trading country.

[Citation needed]

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

(...)
It's just the whole experience is incredibly well done.

Yes, I've used it and I agree. I was trying to get across that Opera Mini is

• free for the phone you already have,
• cheaper to use,
• quicker at loading pages,
• also quite well done given the contraints of cheaper phones

and therefore doesn't suck. Check out the demo.

Anyway, some of my friends have iPhones, which I've tried. I agree that it's very nice, but it's far from perfect and has both advantages and disadvantages compared to other phones and browsers. It's certainly not the revolution in mobile web browsing Apple make it out to be.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[earthbound kid]

Yes, but the Japanese web is mostly designed for use with crappy cellphone browsers, so it already sucks. Because their phone company charged by the minute, no one used dial up internet back in the day, but their cellphones were really good, so everyone used cellphones. So, their web has always had the assumption that your browser sucks built in.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[kklein]

I think I just sprayed coffee all over my monitor.

Have you ever lived here (Japan) man??? The construction is shit! Absolute, unadulterated shit!

Buildings are built to last 30 years, not 100, and are torn down between owners. At the heart of that, whether people realize it or not (they don't), is a strong latent cultural belief that used things are "dirty," which stems from Shinto. People don't like the idea of moving into a house that has been "used" (have you ever considered a house "used?"), so they tear it down and build a different shitty one that someone else will tear down. They aren't built to last, but no one seems to care.

They are also profoundly energy inefficient. Just now, we are finally seeing double-paned windows. Just now. The first house I lived in that had those was a cheap modular my family moved into in 1980, and it was almost 10 years old then! Japanese people often clack their tongues at us "wasteful" Americans who heat our entire homes with a central furnace, not realizing that the furnace is far more efficient than the awful little camp heaters we heat individual rooms with here (I'm running mine right now--mmm, smell the fumes), and that, since the heat doesn't just disappear right out the windows, it doesn't take much energy to just keep it warm. My utility bills here are always substantially higher for a substantially smaller place (energy is a little more expensive here than the US, though).

What Japanese houses do have that I would love to incorporate in a house should I ever have on in the US are:

• "Washlet" bidet toilet seats. People snicker at them, but after you start using one you can't figure out why Americans like to scrape poop remnants off their anuses and then walk around all day with what they missed. Washing with warm water is both more comfortable and more hygienic.
• Heat-on-use water heaters. I have sometimes seen these in the US, but they are uncommon. Imagine drawing a bath and taking a shower and doing the dishes and everyone else in the family getting a shower, all in the space of an hour, without ever running out of hot water. It's heaven. I just got back from a 2-week trip to see friends and family in the US, and every damned morning, it seems, the hot water ran out when it was my turn to shower. Why do we put up with that?
• Two things. That's it. And they have nothing to do with home construction.

Please stop believing that everything in Japan is great and wonderful. It's not. I have lived here for a long time; I like it here, a lot, but my first year here (10 years ago, yikes!) was a solid year of having every image of Japan I'd ever fostered smashed to smithereens. It is not efficient, it is not technologically advanced, and workmanship on just about everything (aside from consumer electronics and automotive--you know, the things they are famous for) is pretty godawful poor.

However, the people are wonderful, I enjoy the Japanese work philosophy (they are actually serious about team-building, and your co-workers start to feel more like family), you're not called a commie because you think that tax money should be able to fund social services for everyone--and actually the government doesn't even have to force these things because people in this country understand that they live in a society--a stark contrast to the greedy sociopathic American culture of "individualism", and the food is great.

Don't believe everything you see on the news. News crews covering Japan take the Narita Express from Narita Airport to Tokyo Station, change to the Yamanote Line, stop at Shinjuku and Shibuya to shoot some footage just outside the stations, and head home.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Piazzola]

Because it's imposed by an authority acting with certain interests in mind, rather than reflecting the overall trends, preferences, and interests of the culture as a whole?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

what apple's music domination!?

most of ppl i see use either their phones or weird named (probably) chinese mp3 players to play music on the go.

the only person i know that uses ipod is my best friend, and he is constantly being made fun of for spending 50 eur on something that he could have gotten for free or 5 eur.

btw, it's not anti-amrican thing! i don't know why, but majority of ppl in my country (serbia) think apple is irish!? (i guess apple has something to with it - anti-americanism is unfortunately plentiful in my country and, until recently, ireland was seen as a roll-model for our economic recovery).

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Jeeeb]

Because its not a myth. By and large, it is easy to bring goods into the USA because the USA has a tradition of a generally free trading country. Do a google and see what's involved into bringing goods from the USA into Japan, and then see what's involved in vice versa. If they wanted to bring in more competition and other goods, you'd see those doors being opened. But they aren't.

The US has a long history of imposing trade barriers on Japan. Generally they came in the form of "VER"s (Voluntary Export Restriction). Basically an export quota which blanket covers a particular industry. In the 60's there was US Textile makers complaining to the US government and the US government pounding their chest and issuing threats on the behalf of the textile makers until the Japanese makers agreed to export quotas. In the 80's it was automobiles and Japanese car makers were forced to setup factories in the US. In the 90's Bush Snr was threatening to extend US anti-trust laws to attempt to prosecute the 6 large Japanese corporate keiretsu. Never mind that they weren't actually monopolies and that a lot of the US academics of the time seemed to mix up the various keiretsu type and not actually understand what on earth they were talking about.

That's just dealing with past US-Japan trade relations. There's also the significant subsidies and protections afford to the agricultural sector. Then there's the new stimulus plan signaling a new round of protectionist trade policies...

The US doesn't practice what it preaches and Japan has made significant efforts to remove non-tariff barriers to trade after the collapse of the 80's-Mid 90's bubble economy. Japanese protectionism is an old-story and the iphone is failing because the Japanese don't want to buy it.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

"My point is that the MMS is the push mail for the majority of people with non-push mail mobile phones. It is a bit arrogant in a way not to include it in the default sms iphone app." Are you kidding me? MMS (and SMS) need to die and die fast. Email is much more practical for communicating longer pieces of info and perhaps sending the occasional file. I ran a few ad-hoc tests with an SMS beleiver and my email message was actually sent and received faster than his SMS.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Idiomatick]

Really? America must be pissed at Canada on and off then (softwood lumber, cattle). Oh and hate anyone living in a poor country.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[damaki]

Yeah and did you really compare Opera Mini 4 and iPhone's Safari? I use Opera Mini on a daily basis on my S60 because it's less crash-prone than any other browser on it and I am forced to admit it's the least bad browser on this platform. I thought that the one column rendering stuff on it was good enough until I had a look at the same websites on an iPod Touch. The fonts look amazing, the text always fits the width of the screen and the navigator works well on ajax-only websites. Opera Mini feels like it's the browser that all phones with a small screen should have, but not the new phones.

Sure the iPhone has less functions than my N95 which can make my computer go wirelessly on the internet wherever I am, but its browser is just f***ing amazing. Apple did bad on the extensibility part but that was not the point of the iPhone. The point is that you have an ipod, an easy to use phone and the web minus flash on the same device.
I like my phone but it feels like a poor hack...

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

I would suggest that the trade barriers were created by PEOPLE with an AGENDA. You, through your remark, are obviously oversimplifying. The agenda probably has several concepts behind it... I am betting that cultural opposition is part of it, mostly because Japanese I have known have very much revered their history... One which includes Nationalism like no other... So, prior to making a guess and stating the politically correct line, consider researching fact.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[damaki]

I do totally agree. MMS are a solution to a problem we do not have anymore. Even my already oldish N95 can send a mail with a full resolution (5 megapixels) picture in it, and my unlimited data plan too. We are in an era of integration. I can put my picture on facebook from my phone to share it with as many friends I want or send it to only one friend by mail. Same goes for videos.

MMS was good enough for low res photographs but pricey.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Joren]

Thanks for saving me the rant. I was about to chime in, but then I saw you had beat me to it. My Tokyo apartment is also ridiculously poorly insulated, and in fact open holes to the outside are left in our wall ON PURPOSE to allow for dissipation of gas fumes and, incidentally, any leftover comfort as well! I do pay much less here for energy than I did in America, though...and with a good cover I don't really need the heat...but it would be nice to not have to put on a coat to walk into my own kitchen.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[the_B0fh]

Using Einstein's one example can prove you wrong, I have two:

1) When I first came to .us ~20 years ago as a student, I wanted to buy the easy-to-use-pen-form of "liquid paper" that I have been using for over 10 years prior. Couldn't find it. Liquid Paper + thinner bottle were all over the place though. It wasn't until the mid-90s when catalogs started talking about the "innovative" and "spill-less" and "no-thinner required" pen form of these things. Why?

2) I was trying to find a nice walkman. In the late 80s, I had a nice Aiwa walkman model something-303. Size of a casette box (obviously in only 2 dimensions - it was just a tad thicker than a good casette box). Came with a remote control, all digital controls, etc. Walked in to circuit city to get one for my wife. Only had the cheap junky crap. Apparently only stores like the sharper image *might* have the _midrange_ models that were available in Asia.

I asked why in both cases, and were told that it was difficult to bring things in. Forgot exactly what was the reason given.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Kristoph]

with mms you do not have to know two pieces of info about a person. only one, the phone number..

You also have to know if the person's phone has MMS, and if the person in question paid for MMS on their phone, and if your network talks MMS to their network (at least in the US).

I had MMS on my phone while living in Europe. I never once got an MMS. I did get lots of email though.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Kristoph]

MMS has weaker support and weaker opt-in then email so you can't really send MMS unless you know the recipient can receive it.

Anyway, you can use an MMS gateway on the iPhone in case you MUST send MMS for some reason.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[CoolMoDee]

I guess the difference is that in Japan, all phones have had push email accounts for years. Instead of being @mobileme or @yahoo.com they are @carrier.jp and are created when you purchase your phone. Instead of being charged per message, you are charged per packet. So if you like to write very long winded messages, they will end up costing you (marginally) more. In Japan, the push problem is solved without MMS. It just takes all the carriers to cooperate with each other for the benefit of everyone. And as a Tokyoite, I thank them.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[AbRASiON]

I'm sorry but this is the most apple loving bullshit response I've seen on slashdot EVER.

For goodness sakes the man is in Japan! Do you know about the telephones they have there, seriously? Do you have any concept of the features, functionality and low cost?

Take your damned apple blinkers off for a moment, what an insulting suggestion "less is more! it's from apple"
Good lord.....

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[complete loony]

Correction: most of today's economic recession was caused by economists providing flawed models of the economy that ignored excessive debt and encouraged wild asset speculation on borrowed money.

Banks wouldn't have lent the money if they knew the real long term risk, but their models were completely broken.

This debt bubble has been building for the last 50 years. After each recession, the worst effected parties stopped borrowing as much. Governments and banks then kick started the economy again by finding another sucker to lend money to.

The problem is, the world has run out of suckers willing to foot the bill.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

USA citizens don't classify themselves as foreigners...

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[gullevek]

That depends how you use your mobile phone. There a gazillion of mobile pages optimized of japanese mobile phones, and mostly they are of japanese people. If you can't read japanese you are probably not really interested in them.

On the other hand there are a gazillion of pages a foreigner might want to read, in PC format. But japanese people mostly don't care about them.

Hence, unless you have proper full browser on your phone, you won't be able to see them.

Then of course the iPhone is usefull.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[gullevek]

well in japan you just send a mime mail with an attachement.

MMS is something I only know from places where they use SMS.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[gullevek]

Except Softbank, none other carrier actually uses SMS/MMS. They all create a normal MIME email and attach the image to it.

They same way they create "deco-mail" which is nothing else than MIME HTML mail + text + images.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[k-macjapan]

Another reason for that US cars do not sell well here is that the government imposed insurance which is every two years on Japanese cars is every year for imports. For a mid sized car it costs about $1500.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[hitmark]

the more i learn about how US operators handle things, the more im glad i do not live there...

i guess it proves my "culture" comment at the end...

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[ltrm]

Well I really miss MMS on my iPhone especially as I know people who don't have email on their phones.

I miss it every time someone sends me an MMS message and I have to go to a webpage to view it.

Doesn't sound too bad does it? Except that the person in ivory tower who decided that the iPhone won't do MMS also decided that it can't do cut and paste, so I have to remember two long, cryptic strings to type into safari to view picture messages. Hardly friendly.

Also, why can we still not forward SMS messages? These are basic features but you never no what a pain in the arse it is to not have them if everyone you know has a blackberry, iphone or other phone with email support.

In the real world email support is sadly only setup in a minority of products.

So, sorry, but fewer feature is still worse.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[intheshelter]

So you've taken the position that the iPhone is the one at fault because it doesn't have MMS rather than other phones aren't at fault because they don't do email? I've never used MMS nor do I see why it is attractive to people. If I want to send text I send SMS or an email. If I want to send a pic then I send an email.

MMS seems a bit ridiculous to me. A narrow subset of functionality that another application (email) supports. Why not create a new app that only sends out the letter Q? That way when I want to send a Q to my friends I can use that, because not all of them have email, but they should have this severely limited Q App on their phone.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[master811]

You are assuming that EVERYONE has easy to access email on their phone, which simply isn't the case. Smartphones still hold a significantly smaller proportion of the market compared to any other phone type.

In addition depending on your tariff, MMS could be cheaper than sending an email due to inclusive messages given to you by the network for your contract.

So why would I want MMS?, because then I can send a picture message to someone who DOESN'T have a smartphone and who DOESN"T have a data tariff.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[ltrm]

Actually, I do take the position that Apple is at fault here because the functionality is not replicated by email.

It's all very well invoking some hypothetical Q application but that wouldn't be in almost every other phone in the market anyway. How, exactly, do you use email to receive an MMS message someone has sent to you? Apple/$PhoneCompany could set up a gateway to forward your MMS to you email account but they don't.

Email doesn't replace MMS because MMS is a more widely distributed standard (WRT mobile phones), available to many who don't have access to email on their phones.

I don't control the way in which other people send me images. I knew the iPhone didn't support MMS when I bought it and my next phone will probably also be another iPhone it but it's still a PITA that Apple could easily fix if they weren't they weren't trying to force the market to abandon MMS.

One software update would solve the whole problem.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[intheshelter]

But again, you choose to place the blame on Apple for not including MMS when you could just as easily place the blame on other handset manufacturers who didn't include email.

"Email doesn't replace MMS because MMS is a more widely distributed standard (WRT mobile phones), available to many who don't have access to email on their phones. "

- Email can replace the functionality of MMS just fine. MMS is a more widely distributed standard? Than email? And your next sentence is telling. . . . "available to many who dont' have access to email on their phones" . . . .so it could just as easily be the fault of other handset makers who chose to try and (by your own convenient logic) force the market to abandon email.

Tell me, why are those handset makers trying to force others to abandon email? Why didn't they put the accepted standard of email on their phones?

You see, it's all in how you spin it? Could Apple add MMS? . . . Yes. Could they also add my Q Application? . . . . Yes. Are that many people really clamoring for this? . . . . I dont' think so.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Anonymous Coward]

Do trade barriers count as "cultural opposition", though? Political and economic opposition, sure. But cultural?

Yes. Even before war, trade emabargos reflect that *cultural* opposition; anti-Nazi and anti-Japanese-hegemony over Asia for starters. See the WW2 and embargo sections at your local library for more information concerning both.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[ltrm]

LOL I'm choosing to blame Apple because that's where the blame lies!

When someone sends me an MMS picture I don't think "why are they using MMS when email is so much better" (and I would agree with you that email is better but MMS is a fact of life).
Instead I think "I wonder what that is, bugger, bloody iPhone. Why doesn't it support MMS ...or some simple way to view this ...or even just cut and paste so that I can paste the SMS details into Safari".

It's going to take an awful lot of spin to change that.

And if you really think that MMS was left out for design simplicity rather than either marketing or budget reasons then please explain the design genius behind leaving SMS forwarding out too.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[intheshelter]

See, now I think, "I wonder why didn't include email on their phone? Email can be used for text or pictures. Why would they instead choose to include a feature limited app like MMS instead of a full featured app like email?"

"And if you really think that MMS was left out for design simplicity rather than either marketing or budget reasons . . . "

I'm not sure how you're attibuting this to me since I never addressed it? As for why MMS was left out, I can't speak to that, but it does seem a bit silly to include an app just to send pictures when email already accomplishes that task. I wonder why the iPhone should be forced to dumb itself down to support other crippled phones' lack of email support when it already has the much better email interface that accomplishes far more?

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[Starayo]

mcdonalds is pretty popular (and has some cool exclusive menu items)

Japanese McDonalds is better than Australian McDonalds. :(

I miss Japan.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[beelsebob]

Oh come on, my 5 year old non-smart phone from when cameras were first coming in and WEP access was the next big thing is capable of receiving email... Notably, it's not capable of receiving MMS.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[master811]

So does mine, but I don't have a data tariff, so I try to keep any data usage to a minimum. On the other hand it costs me nothing to receive an MMS and its free to send one within my allowance.

The issue isn't so much phones not being able to support email, but the data costs and anyway I'd block attachments for the same reasons above.
 
The other issue is that unless you have push email setup (which drains my battery and not every provider supports it anyway) I wouldn't check my email often enough to make it worthwhile.

Lastly, you assume everyone has en email account setup on their phone already, most people don't, where as nearly everyone WILL have MMS setup automatically as it just uses the standard settings from when the phone is first setup by the network.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[DaGoatSpanka]

Correction: most of today's economic recession was caused by profit-driven lenders allowing people to borrow money and purchase homes that were beyond their means.

Most of today's economic recession was caused by the government guaranteeing mortgages taken out by greedy consumers who wanted bigger houses and greedy lenders who wanted more money.

Greed goes around a lot further than just greedy lenders.

Government doesn't make a good catalyst.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[ScrewMaster]

I have been there. I never saw any cultural opposition at all. The iPod was popular there, mcdonalds is pretty popular (and has some cool exclusive menu items), several english books were recently translated into Japanese and were very popular. Hollywood movies can perform well in Japanese box office. MLB seems to be more popular there than here. I think really the Japanese applaud things that are new or that fit the attributes they want. Where it comes from isn't that important. We just like playing a xenophobe card everytime the iPhone doesn't do well because it lacks features the Japanese want, or when the Xbox and 360 sell poorly because it lacks the kinds of titles the Japanese like best. It strikes me as extremely arrogant to complain that the only reason a product designed by the mighty Americans isn't selling MUST be because of xenophobia and couldn't be because they just don't WANT it.

Wrong. You're focusing solely on luxury consumer goods, which is a mistake and not all that relevant to a major industrial economy.

There's trillions of dollars of industrial trade in other areas (machine tools, heavy equipment, construction materials, textiles, food, etc.) that are far more important to a successful economy and overall quality of life than iPhones, iPods, big screen TVs or anything like that. They're also things that the Japanese are heavily invested in, and very good at producing. The reality is that the Japanese do not easily grant outsiders access to their important domestic markets, because they would risk those industries. Unlike, for example, the United States, which foolishly allowed Japan to decimate its electronics manufacturing sector from top to bottom. We've been trying for decades to get the Japanese government to open up some of those markets to foreign competition (namely us), but they're very reluctant to do so.

Just goes to show that some people are too smart to fall for the whole "free trade" crap that's been foisted on us. The Japanese deal in the global economy all right, but they do it on their terms. Gotta give 'em credit for that.

Re:Everyone hates congress too

[seventhevening]

Wrong. You're focusing solely on luxury consumer goods, which is a mistake and not all that relevant to a major industrial economy.

Yes, luxury consumer goods is not relevant to a major industrial economy. But I'm not wrong. The article mentions the Japanese rejecting a luxury consumer good because said luxury good was created/designed in America. I'm not arguing any point about economics or the Japanese trade sector, but rather arguing that the average Japanese consumer does not care where their product was made. This article implies (as have some users) that the Japanese will be less inclined to buy a luxury consumer solely due to it not being Japanese made. While it is very difficult to break into the Japanese market, Apple (the topic of the article) and Microsoft have both succeeded in getting their foot in the door. So your comments on the trade industry of Japan is insightful, but actually irrelevant in the scope of the article.

Uhg

[nametaken]

Nice work, Wired.

Re:Uhg

[reSonans]

It's par for the course for them, IMO. The tone of the magazine is that of an ADHD fanboy with access to a very large marketing department.

Then again, maybe I shouldn't be too hard on Wired, as the ever-increasing irony of their name is amusing.

Re:Uhg

[jo42]

Wired has missed that they have been in the [Really] "Tried" column since before the dot-com bust.

Apple Damage Control

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the feeling that there were a half truths and full lies like Apple says.

But does anyone have any sales figures (DNRTFA) of the iPhone in Japan. I get the feeling that Apple is jumping on a couple of mistake and throwing out the baby with the bath water.

  We all know that apple has a history of leading with its marketing department. http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/08/03/0031228.shtml
 
  And it is common knowledge that apple censors its forums.
 
-jgtg32a

Re:Apple Damage Control

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Read the first blog response link.

Essentially, the guy says he was taken out of context, but if you read the note he fired off to correct the error, he also goes on to explain that the iPhone is simply not selling well in Japan. He claims this is Softbank's marketing problem, but it points to a larger problem that the demand for the product has already been filled in the first few months after release.

Those who want it have it. Everyone else is indifferent.

Re:Apple Damage Control

[BuhDuh]

TFA says:

The perception of iPhone being a failure was created by a newspaper in Japan, Sankei Shimbun, Hayashi noted in his original reply to Wired. Last fall, it wrote although Softbank tried to sell one million units by the end of 2008, they only sold about 200,000. This article was wrong in two fronts. One is that Softbank nor Apple never publicly claimed they would sell 1 million units. Second, their estimate of 200,000 units were also wrong. Although Apple nor Softbank releases the real number of shipment, today, it is strongly believed that they have shipped more than 300,000 and possibly near 400,000 units in Japan.

(My emphasis)
shipped!=sold

An aside on the death of print media.

[yotto]

Oh woe is me! How will we ever survive if all print media dies from the internet? Where will we get our hard-hitting, guaranteed-factual news from then? /Yes, I know Wired isn't a newspaper.

Re:An aside on the death of print media.

[peragrin]

it is simple Wired was just fulfilling a contract obligation they have when they bought windows corporate licensing from MSFT. Isn't it obvious that it came out at the same time that Ballmer stated that the Iphone wasn't going anywhere, even though the iphone is selling more units by itself than all windows mobile handsets combined?

Or maybe i should loosen the tinfoil around my neck and head.

Re:An aside on the death of print media.

[Anonymous Coward]

...and bloggers aren't real journalists.

Re:An aside on the death of print media.

[commodore64_love]

>>>Yes, I know Wired isn't a newspaper.

When I was in college Wired used to hand-out free magazines to the students. Do they still publish a magazine?

Re:An aside on the death of print media.

[jaavaaguru]

Yes, they do. My local Borders has it.

Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

Who gives a fuck? Japan hates the iPhone, Japan doesn't hate the iPhone; it's a god-damned fucking piece of electronics, not an economic programme or school of politico-philosophical thought. Is it really so important for your sense of self-satisfaction that people you'll never meet in a country you never go to buy the same plastic shit as you do? Fucking Christ, what a sorry species.

Re:Either way...

[BadAnalogyGuy]

It is instinctive that people want to feel that they are making the right decisions. So when other people act similarly they receive validation that their choices are correct, even in minor lifestyle choices like buying Apple products.

So when a whole country (well, not really) rejects a lifestyle choice that an iPhone user made, it makes them uncomfortable and they try to find reasons why their choice is different from the foreign norm. In this case, either they try to invalidate the data (which is hard to do) or they try to explain away the problem by diminishing the importance of the data.

It is just a phone, but for many people it is also an expression of their personality. They don't want to be diminished, so they seek out those who are like-minded. This is the same type of behavior that can be seen at comic book conventions, furry conventions, and Star Trek conventions. Those of us who have no horse in this race should probably just stay as far away from the commotion as possible.

Re:Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

You have anger issues. Get help quickly before you take it out on loved ones. Oh wait. This is

Re:Either way...

[commodore64_love]

>>>So when other people act similarly they receive validation that their choices are correct

Yeah but most people are Idiots who make BAD choices. I can understand the need to "fit in" when you're in high school, copying the same style as everyone else, but you'd think people would grow out of that phrase by the time they hit 30. Apparently not.

Re:Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what? Were you going to finish that sentence? Maybe next time you should try using a real keyboard, not a touchscreen.

Re:Either way...

[JustOK]

whoooosh

Re:Either way...

[mxolisi06]

Or else you'd think people still are social animals when they hit 30, feeling good about belonging to a group, being gratified by their group's members having a good opinion of them.

Re:Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

whoooooooooosh

Re:Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

What I came away with from the original story was that American consumers were less sophisticated and less tech savvy then Japanese consumers.

That would be an interesting observation and it would be news, and, if you are an American, we would have a horse in the race.

Re:Either way...

[khallow]

Yeah but most people are Idiots who make BAD choices. I can understand the need to "fit in" when you're in high school, copying the same style as everyone else, but you'd think people would grow out of that phrase by the time they hit 30. Apparently not.

Since we're kind of on the subject, when are you planning to stop making BAD choices? The rest of us who make BAD choices, need a little guidance here.

Re:Either way...

[mdwh2]

I agree, exactly - trying to claim that Japan "hates" the Iphone is buying into the pro-Apple Iphone hype just as much. As you say, it suggests that people in the US are offended that the Iphone isn't the best selling phone elsewhere (if it is even in the US - that seems to be another myth based on hype), and it implies that even for people who don't like it, they view it as a special case, in the same way that people "hate" Windows. People might hate Windows because it's the dominant platform, but it's laughable to suggest that the Iphone is anywhere near comparable (if the article was about the Ipod, sure, that would make sense.)

The reality is that lots of people, especially outside of the US, just don't care about the Iphone, just as they don't care about most other arbtirary models of phone. ("But, but, it I can browse the web, and look at maps!" I hear someone cry - yes, just like every other phone that's been around for years.)

And now we have this joke of an article trying to spin the so-called Apple "hate" as being some kind of agenda. Um, as opposed to the pro-Apple stance that most of the rest of the media take (e.g., the way we get an article about the Iphone everytime it does something that isn't anything special - consider the joke of an article yesterday, Use Your iPhone To Get Out of a Ticket)?

It a nice refreshing change to see an article pointing out that not everyone is mad about the Iphone, and that phones in other countries have had the hyped features for years. Sorry, that's a fact - no amount of whinging that this is an "anti-Apple agenda" will change that fact.

Re:Either way...

[mapkinase]

"It is just a phone, but for many people it is also an expression of their personality."

I'd rather have my personality described as "Soup Nazi" than by mere fact of the ownership of some overmarketed gizmo I do not need.

Re:Either way...

[Mr. Slippery]

So when a whole country (well, not really) rejects a lifestyle choice that an iPhone user made

And that's the other reason why Apple nauseates me. (The first one being that they're a bunch of patent-abusing bastards dating back to the old "look-and-feel" lawsuits.) Somehow, according to their marketing, the choice of which brand of gizmos I buy is supposed to be a "lifestyle choice."

Thank you, but no, I don't need a multinational corporation to set my "lifestyle choices".

Re:Either way...

[Mr. Slippery]

Or else you'd think people still are social animals when they hit 30, feeling good about belonging to a group

Yes, humans are social animals. But anyone over the age of sixteen who defines their group membership by the brands of the products they own is a hopeless idiot, someone who needs to be institutionalized for their own protection and the protection of others.

Defining yourself as an "Apple" or a "Nike" or a "Chevy" person is even dumber than defining yourself in terms of what sports teams you're a fan of. And that's pretty damn stupid.

I'm not saying people don't have a preference in brands, or shouldn't root for the home team. I'm saying that defining who you are in those terms, makes you a stunted human being.

Re:Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is brilliant: convincing people to self-define themselves through the things they buy is the American dream for corporations. And a lot of consumers, too. These companies practically own these people's hearts and minds. You see it to a lesser extent with luxury cars, musical instruments ("ooo a GIBSON LES PAUL!"), clothes...everything. It is why MS can never be Apple, regardless of quality: they have never sold their products like Apple does. Actually, it reminds me a lot of dating in that sense: it oftentimes isn't the product itself you sell, its the promise of an experience -- assuming no fatal flaws.

Re:Either way...

[ScrewMaster]

Those of us who have no horse in this race should probably just stay as far away from the commotion as possible.

Truer word were never written. Then again, I'm one of those people who will probably end up with an Android G2 just because it isn't an iPhone.

Re:Either way...

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Who gives a fuck? Japan hates the iPhone, Japan doesn't hate the iPhone;

I don't think that is the story here. I think the story is that the longer Fox owns the Wall Street Journal, the last we can trust their articles to not be utter fabrications or intentionally misleading. The real question to ask is what caused this particular bias.

Re:Either way...

[vadim_t]

People might hate Windows because it's the dominant platform, but it's laughable to suggest that the Iphone is anywhere near comparable (if the article was about the Ipod, sure, that would make sense.)

Actually, not all of them. I'm currently a 100% Linux user, only booting Windows when I need to get Windows development done.

I started as a DOS user, and I didn't hate it at all. I learned its quirks, and how to use it. I was "that guy who can fix your computer" in school. I had Win 3.1 back then, which I also knew in quite good detail, but my opinion was mostly "meh", and I generally stuck to DOS.

I tried OS/2 Warp and actually liked it, though it was a bit heavy for my 386 with 4MB, but the way it worked was much better.

Then Win95 came, and things started getting annoying. Lots of reboots, BSODs, GDI resources running out... I bloody hated the thing.

I messed with NT, and though no games ran on it I liked its stability. Then I settled on Win2K, but back then it was quite buggy still, and downloading service packs over a modem was a huge pain.

So I tried Linux. Initially I didn't really like it, functionality was limited, drivers were hard to find, things were complicated to configure... I could figure it out mostly but it was a bit of a pain. But every time Windows really got screwed up I gave it another try and it kept getting better and cooler (Enlightenment caused impressive reactions in people).

At some point, Linux got way ahead for me, and I can't stand Windows anymore. Installing Linux is straightforward. Installing XP takes a day, to get all the patches applied. Linux is functional from the start, XP needs lots of extra tools. Linux doesn't get into your way while working with popups and update requests, in Windows something keeps wanting to be updated.

Also, Linux looks consistent, Windows is... ugh. I recently installed Avast and saw the "themed" interface. I don't understand why an antivirus company wastes time on coding crap like that. Why don't they let the interface alone, and just make a good antivirus? On Windows every third app has themes of some sort, it's annoying as well. In Linux that seems to have died with XMMS many years ago.

I tried Windows plenty. I wasn't an instant Linux convert. When I say I don't like Windows it's not because it's popular, it's because I used it, in many of its versions, for a long time, and find Linux much more usable.

The reality is that lots of people, especially outside of the US, just don't care about the Iphone, just as they don't care about most other arbtirary models of phone. ("But, but, it I can browse the web, and look at maps!" I hear someone cry - yes, just like every other phone that's been around for years.)

True. Here nobody seems to care. I've seen a total of one, and my mother, who works in tourism asked me several days ago what it was. Her phone company offers it for free, though probably with some expensive plan.

What annoys me is this idea of that there's something special about it. What is it about the iPhone that I should care how it's doing in Japan? Why aren't there articles about how the N95, or some other phone was received?

Re:Either way...

[jaavaaguru]

even in minor lifestyle choices

I'm a geek, you insensitive clod. The gadgets I buy are major lifestyle choices :-)

Re:Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. Although it is certainly dumb to define oneself by the products one prefers, it is even more dumb to define oneself by one's favorite sports team. Of course, it depends on the reasons for the preferences. A sports team preference really makes no practical difference beyond the social interactions it generates. A product preference can tell something about a person. For example, one can compare a Prius person to a Hummer person and learn something from those preferences. Comparing a Yankees person to a Dodgers person, one learns nothing because these preferences are arbitrary and meaningless except for some correlation with living location.

Re:Either way...

[rantingkitten]

So when a whole country (well, not really) rejects a lifestyle choice that an iPhone user made

It's. A. Goddamned. Phone. It's not a "lifestyle choice". The only people who view buying Apple products as a "lifestyle" are the raging fanboys -- the same ones who obsess over every word Steve Jobs may have been rumored to casually utter in passing. And you can find obsessive freaks for pretty much everything under the sun -- that doesn't mean anything.

If someone is defining their lifestyle by which company's products they purchase, that person has a far, far larger problem than worrying about what people in Japan are doing.

It is just a phone, but for many people it is also an expression of their personality.

William Shatner needs to revisit his SNL sketch, I think, and explain something to people like that. Get a life.

Re:Either way...

[wickerprints]

I mostly agree with you, but the furor, if any, should be about the fact that it's yet again another example of yellow journalism. We get enough slanted reporting in the political media as it is; it's all the more absurd that the same tactics and biased reporting occurs over a phone.

Re:Either way...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly! who the hell should care whether Japan or any other nation hates or loves the freakin iPhone? it's just a freakin phone ffs.. not a cancer cure! get over this.. all this hype is doing is giving more publicity for Apple..

Re:Either way...

[kklein]

I think you may be missing the point. Basically, the Wired writer cobbled together an article without doing any real research (just pulling notes from interviews much earlier) and made a strong claim that was wholly unsupported by the evidence cited.

At least, that's what bothers me here. This is the problem with journalism. In academia, where I work, if we make a claim in something we write, we either have to back it up with data we've collected and analysed, or we have to cite the person who did. Journalists can just pull whatever they want out of their asses and vomit it out into the world, and people believe them. In this case, yeah, it's not the end of the world (although I love my iPhone--as does everyone I know who has one), but it could have a negative impact on Apple's stock price, which could mean jobs lost, which could add to the unemployment problem in the US where the company is based...

Everything is connected, and in the information age, putting out bad information from a position of authority, whether it be deliberate or negligent, is serious business. Wired is supposedly a respected and respectable technology magazine. In this case, a writer abused that reputation to try to get away with just throwing some crap on paper and cashing his paycheck.

And that's not right.

Re:Either way...

[Yaztromo]

Who gives a fuck? Japan hates the iPhone, Japan doesn't hate the iPhone; it's a god-damned fucking piece of electronics, not an economic programme or school of politico-philosophical thought. Is it really so important for your sense of self-satisfaction that people you'll never meet in a country you never go to buy the same plastic shit as you do?

No, but it is useful data if you're a software developer who is considering sinking some funds and time into doing a Japanese localization of your iPhone/iPod Touch software.

After all, this is /., right? There are at least a handful of actual software developers who still visit and might care about such technical issues, aren't there? Or is it just a pile of sit-at-home wannabe armchair anthropologists?

Yaz.

Re:Either way...

[Nekomusume]

True that. In order for Japan to "hate" the iphone, it'd have to be important enough for them to really care about in the first place. And it isn't. It's just another electronic device, and to them, it's simply not that impressive. The iRobots (aka apple fanboys) need to suck it up and move on.

Re:Either way...

[dogzilla]

Yeah! And it's just a goddamned piece of code that runs a computer! Who cares if anyone else runs the same OS as you, regardless of whether it's Linux or FreeBSD or Windows?!

Of course, that means you've just argued this site out of existence, and subsequently, your post is irrelevant.

Re:Either way...

[intheshelter]

That was beautiful . . . . and wrong.

The reason people (okay, iPhone/Apple fans) are interested in this story is because Wired allowed a false hit piece against the iPhone to run on it's site. People who are buying Apple products are increasingly noticing what seems to be a concerted effort to falsely portray Apple products as incompatible, insecure (in comparison to a certain monopoly), proprietary, and difficult to use. I never noticed it until I bought my first Mac in 2004, and then when I fell in love with it I started to notice all the innacuracies that "journalists" were perpetuating. I wondered how they could make some of these patently false claims if they had actually used the product and done any research, and then I started to realize that this smacks of either complete incompetence on the part of "journalists" or a disinformation compaign by a competitor. I now believe both forces are at play, but I am happily seeing that the false "news" from sites such as Wired has not foiled Apple's rise, and more people are having the chance to experience Apple products so they can judge for themselves.

So while your eloquent soliloquy on human nature does have a strong grain of truth in it, I don't believe it is the main reason why people have a strong opinion on this story, or other Apple stories. Apple is not perfect, nor are its products, but they lead the customer satisfaction surveys for a reason, and Apple product owners who are satisfied tend to get annoyed when they see repeated false attacks on Apple products.

Re:Either way...

[iamthelaw]

For me, the reason that I am curious about the difference is that I wonder whether there is a much better "secret" phone and a conspiracy to prevent it from reaching the American audience.

Either it's just a cultural bias, in which case I can buy an iPhone and not worry about missing out, or it's a real difference, and I want to know more about these phones that are so much better.

The final possibility is that this is just Wired Magazine, publishing the usual made-up story.

Re:Either way...

[ScrewMaster]

I mostly agree with you, but the furor, if any, should be about the fact that it's yet again another example of yellow journalism. We get enough slanted reporting in the political media as it is; it's all the more absurd that the same tactics and biased reporting occurs over a phone.

Yellow, slanted journalism? What do you have against the Japanese anyway?

Old news

[Anonymous Coward]

On D1GG on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, snore.

Leave iPhone Alone !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apologies to Britney

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better

[hackstraw]

and that you have set the people in Japan and Wired straight.

Keep up the good work Steve, and take care of yourself.

-hackstraw

58% of ipod owners may choose Zune

[goombah99]

Uh did you actually look at the well-sourced article pointing out how bad these sources are. One of them published a piece saying "58% of ipod owners may choose zune".

Re:58% of ipod owners may choose Zune

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh did you actually look at the well-sourced post pointing out how they did not RTFA?

Wired Blatant Errors

[olafva]

This shows just how shoddy WIRED stories are fabricated and sensationalized. I can't help but take that into account in reading future WIRED stories. WIRED credibility is seriously called into question by such blatant errors which articles source denies.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors

[samkass]

Yeah, that's par for the course for Wired these days. I used to think they were at least halfway credible until they did an article last year on a topic about which I know quite a lot. The article was, in most respects, the opposite of true. And it also "quoted" people who told me they'd said no such thing and stated as fact things that were verifiably false.

Wired is pretty much The Inquirer of the tech world these days.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors

[mrsquid0]

I am not sure if Wired has ever been credible. I read it for a while in the mid-90s, not long after it started up, and it was not a reliable source of information even then. I have no idea what Wired is like now, but my early experiences with it were not good.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors

[Anonymous Coward]

i find it ironic that someone from slashdot is questioning the integrity of wired. slashdot is the land of sensationalism where entire mindsets are fabricated and assigned to tech's upper echelon to keep together false alliances and create a technocracy that never existed.
 
fuck, it's so routine at this point that even the pizza delivery boys see it as old hat unless it means using stale jokes against their least favorite pet project/os/corporation/file system etc etc etc.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors

[The Living Fractal]

This is what happens when you read about wireless devices in a periodical called WIRED...

Re:Wired Blatant Errors

[mdwh2]

Because obviously an article from AppleInsider is completely trustworthy and unbiased when it comes to the Iphone!

Next article:

[Junior J. Junior III]

Why Slashdot Hates Journalistic Standards

Re:Next article:

[Anonymous Coward]

"brought to you by kdawson"

Re:Next article:

[Anonymous Coward]

Why Journalistic Standards hate Slashdot?

comparing prices of xPhone apps

[v1]

$344 of actual examples of popular Windows Mobile apps included on the iPhone:
-Dashboard: WorldMate Pro $75 "world clocks and weather forecasts, flight and travel information"
-real email client: Pocket Informant $25 "replacement for Pocket Outlook on the Pocket PC"
-real web browser: none seem to exist.
-real contacts: Photo Contacts PRO $30
-Photo browser: Imageer $15
-iPod: Pocket Player MP3 player $20
-Movies: Pocket DVD studio $30
-TV: HandiTV $20 "watch TV from mobile devices"
-Dial up networking: PDANet $34 "use your mobile as a modem!"
-Calculator: Revolutionary Calculator $30
-Touch screen type input: Full Screen Keyboard $10
-PDF: PDF Reader $25
-Notes: List Pro $30 âoeManage your notesâ

Wow... I had no idea windows mobile apps were so expensive! I just got a touch recently and have about 20 apps installed on it, all but three of which were free. The three I bought were $0.99, $1.99, and $2.99. The most expensive app I saw while browsing was an incredible VNC client that does everything plus makes breakfast, for $24.99. over 1/2 the apps in the above list are more expensive than that.

Does MS get some insane cut on the apps or what? Why are they so incredibly more expensive?

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[Anonymous Coward]

"real web browser: none seem to exist."

So Internet Explorer, Opera, Skyfire and the coming Fenric are not real web browsers? What's your definition?

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[mdwh2]

I think that list just shows you how biased that article is - and people are complaining about Wired? I think this shows who the real untrustworthy ones are.

I don't know about Windows Mobile particularly, but large numbers of phones have decent built in browsers for free, and even for non-smartphones, anyone can (well, except Iphone users) download Opera Mini for free. Just about every phone on the market plays mp3s and views photos as standard.

I suspect what they've done is track down expensive applications on Windows Mobile, and presented them as if these were typical or the only ones available. Big deal - I could write an expensive but useless application for Windows Vista - or indeed, OS X - and then claim that therefore applications on that platform are a rip off! Yes, on the Iphone, applications are limited - the downside for all other phones is that anyone can write a rip off application, but that's a rather stupid argument to make, as no one forces you to buy it. The upside is that I can download any application from anywhere, and it Just Works.

Are we supposed to take seriously an article that throws around claims like "The mobile software market is a joke." and "It's nearly all absolute crap! Most existing mobile apps fit into one of these pathetic categories".

The only ones throwing around myths are the articles featured in this new story, not the original one.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, as an owner of a smartphone with Windows mobile I have the same or similar apps, for the most part, and they came free with the phone too. So what's your point?

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[DavidD_CA]

I have no idea what that list even is. I have a Windows Mobile phone from HTC and it came with nearly everything on that list. Opera Mobile, Pocket Outlook (which is a dame fine mobile email client), Contacts w/ Caller Photo ID, TouchFlo 3D which makes everything snazzy looking, Windows Mobile Media player plays MP3s movies and more, Internet Sharing and dial-up (who uses that anymore anyway?), the built-in Calculator is just fine, the built-in keyboard is fine, it came with Mobile Acrobat Reader, and a Notes taker which does text, drawing, and speech. And tons more.

And it was all free with the phone.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[Blakey Rat]

The list is misleading in a few ways. For example, IE on Windows Mobile is a "real" web browser, and it's included. (Although I don't know what definition of "real" they're using, I'm guessing it's one specifically designed to include mobile Safari and not mobile IE.) There's also a free Firefox version for Windows Mobile which I can't remember the name of right now.

Also, the iPhone has dial-up networking? Seriously? WTF. I have one and I've never noticed that "feature" if it indeed exists.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[NJRoadfan]

Wow... I had no idea windows mobile apps were so expensive! I just got a touch recently and have about 20 apps installed on it, all but three of which were free. The three I bought were $0.99, $1.99, and $2.99. The most expensive app I saw while browsing was an incredible VNC client that does everything plus makes breakfast, for $24.99. over 1/2 the apps in the above list are more expensive than that.

Does MS get some insane cut on the apps or what? Why are they so incredibly more expensive?

They receive no such cut, WM is an open platform. Besides, any decent Smartphone comes with most of the above apps already pre-installed. Just about every device maker now installs a "real" web browser too. Even comes with a Flash plug-in.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[Anonymous Coward]

-Dial up networking: PDANet $34 "use your mobile as a modem!"

iPhone doesn't do that.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[Colonel Korn]

$344 of actual examples of popular Windows Mobile apps included on the iPhone:
-Dashboard: WorldMate Pro $75 "world clocks and weather forecasts, flight and travel information"
-real email client: Pocket Informant $25 "replacement for Pocket Outlook on the Pocket PC"
-real web browser: none seem to exist.
-real contacts: Photo Contacts PRO $30
-Photo browser: Imageer $15
-iPod: Pocket Player MP3 player $20
-Movies: Pocket DVD studio $30
-TV: HandiTV $20 "watch TV from mobile devices"
-Dial up networking: PDANet $34 "use your mobile as a modem!"
-Calculator: Revolutionary Calculator $30
-Touch screen type input: Full Screen Keyboard $10
-PDF: PDF Reader $25
-Notes: List Pro $30 âoeManage your notesâ

Wow... I had no idea windows mobile apps were so expensive! I just got a touch recently and have about 20 apps installed on it, all but three of which were free. The three I bought were $0.99, $1.99, and $2.99. The most expensive app I saw while browsing was an incredible VNC client that does everything plus makes breakfast, for $24.99. over 1/2 the apps in the above list are more expensive than that.

Does MS get some insane cut on the apps or what? Why are they so incredibly more expensive?

The vast majority of WinMo apps are free. If you work hard, like the GP did, you can find pay-versions of the free software.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[nine-times]

What's worse is how many phone applications come as subscriptions. I know people who get charged $20 a month for an email application. And then sometimes they make it somewhat difficult to cancel.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[jaavaaguru]

I've used IE on WinCE, and Opera on Nokias and Blackberries... I have to say that while they are better than the other browsers (like Nokia's own and Blackberry's own), they are nothing compared to the iPhone's browser. Having web pages rendered like they are on your computer should be standard on phones now, not a feature only available on one phone.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[FreelanceWizard]

I suspect what they've done is track down expensive applications on Windows Mobile, and presented them as if these were typical or the only ones available.

That's exactly what they've done. A stock Windows Mobile phone without any carrier customization comes with everything listed except for TV, a full-screen keyboard, and a PDF reader, and most carrier-customized phones come with software to cover those as well. There's also a wide variety of free as in beer and free as in speech software to cover those deficiencies; GSPlayer is an excellent media player, Adobe has Acrobat for Pocket PC as a free download, etc. Part of the reason for this is that Windows Mobile is an extremely open system for software development, and the other part is that carriers don't lock down their Windows Mobile phones.

Of course, if you have a strong iBias and want to claim that "only software you *buy* counts as 'real' software because the iPhone is awesome and Windows Mobile sucks," then sure, you might have to spend some money... but on the other hand, no one I know who's used a Windows Mobile phone is complaining about its lack of functionality or how it needs a "real" e-mail client, for instance.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[BollocksToThis]

Fuck, my killer feature, MISSING!

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[DECS]

Actually that listing of software was taken from the top most popular software titles from the Windows Mobile site Microsoft was recommending to its developers at the time (before it decided to cut its "ecosystem" down to launch its own store, sort of like it killed PlaysforSure with the Zune, before failing there too).

And "bias" is something you can evaluate. Anyone with a fair intellect can learn from biased sources. Nobody needs a tard warning them of "bias," so do us a favor and return to playing games in your mom's basement on your tricked out Windows PC.

More Absurd iPhone Myths: Third Party Software Panic

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[DECS]

The software distributor takes a cut. In this case, Handango takes 50% to 70% (really!) of developers' revenues.

Obviously Microsoft can't take a cut if it's not even involved in the transaction. Which is why the company is now getting ready to launch SkyMarket to destroy the ineffectual WiMo stores and replace them with a place WiMo developers can pay Microsoft to distribute their software, just like Apple.

And Adobe Flash on mobile devices is a liability, not a feature. Try browsing the web without Flash on your desktop browser and you'll realize how fast and less shitty the web is without Adobe's crapware layer of ad distribution and anti-HTML web sites.

Microsoft plans 'Skymarket' apps store for Windows Mobile 7 in 2009

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[Idiomatick]

nope those numbers are just all BS. World clocks for 75$ clearly BS. Anyways this was clearly written by a pro-mac person. Like blatently they looked for the most expensive options available. And they put that WindowsMobile doesn't even have a web browser. The whole list is a lie. Windows mobile obviously comes with IE, wmp a photo browser and so on. On my phone (that has only windows installed no extras) I have almost everything on that list. Just missing part of worldmate, tv, a good mp3 player. Thats it. And i'm sure you can get those cheap enough.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[cthellis]

He's quoting from an earlier article by the same guy who wrote that AI article, which at this point is pretty dated. (Right after the iPhone was announced.) It's the one referred to in his recent article when alleging ABI Research shenanigans.

Obviously no, he didn't consider IE Mobile at that point particularly "real." Opera was probably the best alternative, but didn't really compare back in the mid-8 releases. Skyfire wasn't even an inkling back then, and wouldn't release anything for over a year. Fennec, obviously, would be about 2 years from a preview release.

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps

[cthellis]

The points you're complaining about are over two years old, and part of the chatter that was sounding about immediately after the announcement of the iPhone, so you'll have to read it in that context.

Peruse to the bottom of the article and follow the link where the author is alleging shenanigans from ABI Research if you're interested.

I have to ask

[Sycraft-fu]

Who cares? Not who cares that Wired fucked up, but who cares if the Japanese do or don't like the iPhone? I mean Apple cares, because they want to sell as many as possible, but why does the average person care?

It seems to me like there is some misguided ideal in the US of an extremely tech savvy Japan. That the Japanese are far advanced technology wise, and if they don't like something, well it must be no good. Well, not really. Japan simply has a different set of tech priorities than the US. Huge surprise there, it's a different culture, and a different environment.

Well what this means is that if something succeeds or fails in Japan simply means that it is something the Japanese do or don't like/find useful. That has no bearing at all on how good of a product it is. Something very well may bomb in Japan and do well in the US, or fail in the US and have huge sales in Japan. Sometimes it is just because of different needs. High end headphones are more common in Japan because of the small living spaces. For the same reason, full sized speakers are not. If you live in a 200sq ft apartment, it matters that your sound gear doesn't take up too much space. If you live in a 2000sq ft house, it really isn't a concern.

Personally, I don't give a shit what the Japanese do or don't like. Doesn't affect me at all. They can do as they please, and I'll do as I please. If I look at a cellphone I am going to get it based on if it does what I want, not how popular it is, and certainly not how popular it is in a country I don't live in.

So regardless of the truth of Wired's story, who cares? Get the iPhone because you like it (or don't because you don't), not because it gets the approval of anyone else.

Re:I have to ask

[MrMista_B]

Why does any 'average person' care about ANYTHING that's posted to slashdot, or all places?

'News for Nerds', remember. Doesn't mean if you personally don't care, given slashdot's small but focused tech audience, probably some here will.

Re:I have to ask

[fan777]

Something very well may bomb in Japan ...

Tooooo sooooooon.

Re:I have to ask

[Blakey Rat]

That's the way I respond every time someone tells me that the Xbox is a failure because it doesn't sell well in Japan. As if selling well in the other 200+ countries doesn't matter a bit. It's ridiculous, and I also don't understand why I should give even a third of a shit that the Xbox isn't selling well in Japan.

Re:I have to ask

[ukyoCE]

Agreed. I went to Japan expecting it to be time travel. They would be flying around in cars miles above the city, teleporting from place to place, and tentacles would be all over the place just like deer or squirrels in the US.

The WIRED article intentionally promotes this false view of japan. In reality, I didn't find anything in Japan we don't have in the US. A few niche items (like the R4 card for the DS) are easier to find in Tokyo than in the suburbs of the US. But it would be just as easy to find in a major city like New York or Chicago.

So of course the article is claiming the iPhone is hated in japan (false) and the reason is because they have such great amazing phones (false) that Americans won't see for a decade.

If the second premise were true, I could see that being reason for US consumers to care about the Wired article. Why buy an iphone if some crazy awesome japanese phone will be arriving in a couple months?

Fortunately for Apple, that isn't the case. I didn't think Wired was this trashy, especially reading about the dishonest quotes that were preserved (in some form) despite the complaints.

Re:I have to ask

[wickerprints]

Wired didn't just "fuck up." That implies the reporting bias was unintentional. Brian X. Chen intentionally distorted the facts and misrepresented the statements of those he quoted. That is way, way beyond a fuckup.

Re:I have to ask

[Anonymous Coward]

The tentacles are pretty much only in restaurants and on naked women.

Re:I have to ask

[Scrameustache]

It seems to me like there is some misguided ideal in the US of an extremely tech savvy Japan. That the Japanese are far advanced technology wise, and if they don't like something, well it must be no good. Well, not really.

Yes, really.
I've been there: It's the not-so-distant future... TODAY!

Their cell phone offerings make what we have in north America look like retro junk, and their toilets make you feel like you're an astronaut (or like you're having a shit in a row boat, depending on your choice of "traditional" vs "western" toilets).

Re:I have to ask

[kklein]

A few niche items (like the R4 card for the DS) are easier to find in Tokyo than in the suburbs of the US. But it would be just as easy to find in a major city like New York or Chicago.

Indeed.

I live in Japan, and actually, in many cases, it is easier to find tech gadgets in the US than here. And it is always cheaper. I just got back from the US, where I spent 2 weeks seeing friends and family, after an almost-two-year hiatus. During that time, I purchased my first HDTV over here. My 37-inch Mitsubishi LCD HDTV was just over $1000--that was almost half-price because they were phasing the model out. My wife and I kind of want to replace our dying bedroom TV with a small HDTV, but aren't thrilled by the $700 price tag for the cheapest, smallest one.

In the US, for $1000, I could have gotten a 42" Sharp Aquos. That TV is over $2000 here. I could also, for $700, put a 27" TV in the bedroom. I picked up a nice US-region DVD player (my old one died) for $40. Also, a 16GB USB flash drive for $40. Both of those are closer to $100 here.

Japan is not a technological wonderland. In fact, it's quite backward. People don't typically know how to use computers, and the cellphones are crap (yes, they have long feature lists, but I've never gotten them to work--that's why I was giddy when the iPhone finally came out here--I'll take a shorter feature list if all those things are actually usable).

I would like to create a nonprofit that pays for Western geeks to actually come over here for a few weeks and live with normal Japanese people and get over their Japan fetish. Don't get me wrong; I love Japan, and don't want to move away any time soon. But it is not the technowonderland we've been told it is.

Re:I have to ask

[Joren]

[...] who cares if the Japanese do or don't like the iPhone?

Apparently Slashdot editors cared, because they posted two stories about it. Is that the same as the general public caring?

Re:I have to ask

[DECS]

The Xbox failed in Japan and Asia largely because of cultural differences in gaming preferences.

Considering how much of the worldwide market for gaming is based in Asia, yes market share and installed base does matter in console gaming as it has a major impact on how much attention Microsoft can get behind its console from developers.

Also, given that console sales are initially sold at a loss, failing to sell large volumes in Asia means that the console price can't come down as quickly as if it were selling globally in high volume.

There is less cultural resistance to the iPhone because Japanese developers can build games suited to the Asian audience with relatively little overhead (it's much cheaper to develop $1 mobile games than $70 game console titles).

Apple has pretty decent market share going into Japan, as many users get an iPhone in addition to their existing phone, much like BlackBerry users often carry two phones. The meme about the iPhone not being well regarded in Japan because there are fancier hardware handsets available was a key flaw in the original story; that's simply not the case. UI matters.

And third, Apple's ability to sell the iPhone in large volumes, along with the iPod touch, means that the company has enormous economies of scale working to its advantage in bringing down iPhone costs and advancing its hardware in 3.0.

How Apple Is Changing the PC Software World... Back

 

Re:I have to ask

[Blakey Rat]

Yes, but people bring it up as if I, an American, should *not* buy an Xbox for that reason. "The Xbox isn't doing well in Japan, you should buy a PS3." What I'm saying is that that doesn't make any goddamned sense, and it's a stupid argument.

And hey, maybe a little bit of national pride in that an American company is actually in the field again. I think that's the first since Atari bit the dust.

Re:I have to ask

[Joren]

Agreed. I went to Japan expecting it to be time travel. They would be flying around in cars miles above the city, teleporting from place to place, and tentacles would be all over the place just like deer or squirrels in the US.

Yes, my Japanese friends laugh when I talk about the stereotype many of my American friends have about Japan being so advanced. However, it is true that phones tend to be very different here.

My first enduring image of this reality was getting on the trains and realizing that many people were watching live video broadcasts on their phones...for free. Anyone with a 1seg receiver can receive live broadcasts.

When friends want to share their contact info with me, they open up their phone and send it to me via infrared. Unlike bluetooth, infrared requires that the two phones point at each other over a small distance. The range is very limited and so it's only useful for transmitting from one phone to another. However, this also means you don't have to exchange Bluetooth security codes, have Bluetooth names for your phone, figure out which one belongs to the person you're actually trying to talk to, etc. Interestingly, Bluetooth is not very popular here. I don't see people using the headsets, and my impression is that many phones don't even support it.

As for messaging, most people use their cell phones as their primary e-mail providers. E-mails are near-free on many plans and messaging is therefore irrelevant. However, in my experience it's easier here to experience disconnections when receiving e-mails, and sometimes there are unexplained delays that I did not experience with SMS in America. But, it is free (for me anyway), I can send and receive messages to non-cellular e-mail addresses, and I also don't seem to get any spam at all.

It is common for phones to have other features such as English dictionaries, games, etc. Of course cameras and audio are universal. There are also various payment systems that now use the cell phone as a debit card, this is true...but I don't often see people use them. Perhaps this has yet to take hold as a part of mobile culture here.

And, of course it is true that 3G was first implemented here and is widespread to the point where phones don't need to be backwards compatible and can therefore be smaller and more efficient.

There's also a crazy variance in terms of cost. I remember doing a poll of students to find out how much they pay for their phones...I heard anywhere from 2000 yen a month to 15000 yen a month (yes, that $150 US dollars.) Ironically, the feature set wasn't that different. People are willing to pay more for a phone that is more fashionable...even if the tech is more or less the same. In my case, my company has provided me with a cell phone and a contract. Mine is 3000 yen a month, and while it is not a smart phone (no GPS, no video) it does everything else listed here.

The downside of all this is that the mobile market here has effectively created its own little ecosystem, outside of which Japanese phones cannot survive due to different standards or different customer priorities. What good is 1seg outside of Japan? Why would you want a 3G-only phone in a country where you can only get 3G in the cities? Similarly it would be hard for an overseas maker to break into the Japanese market without investing in a ton of infrastructure that wouldn't be useful elsewhere. It seems that unlocked phones are very hard to find here, and since contracts are usually required foreigners are sometimes locked out. Some laws were passed to restrict the prepaid phone market because they were afraid of 'criminal activity'. Oh well.

So no, I wouldn't say that the tech is necessarily more advanced or that they are inately 'better' somehow...but in many cases it does tend to be more usefully implemented, with more availability. And it can lead to unexpected results or clashes with one's expectations. For example, unlike my cheap American phon

Re:I have to ask

[Joren]

Oh, and for what it's worth I remember hearing about the Japanese iPhone frenzy when it first came out. There were lines of people waiting to get in just like everywhere else. Like I said, people are all about the fashion, and there are definitely Apple otaku here, but as technology goes the iPhone isn't all that unique.

P.S. - My Japanese isn't that good so some of my observations above may be influenced by my lack of awareness. I experience cell phones mostly from the viewpoint of a foreign consumer, not as a technology insider. Feel free to correct me.

Re:I have to ask

[Sycraft-fu]

I think it would be a great idea. In general I think it is a good idea for people to do some travel and see that other countries are both different and the same, and that people are still people no matter where they live. However you are particularly right about geeks and their Japan fetish.

I find it funny because when you look in to it, you discover that a lot of the major technology companies, particularly those that do lots of research, are in the US. The US is the center of plenty of technology. Computer processors would be a big one. Both Intel and AMD are US companies so as far as all desktops and laptops, and most servers go, that is where you get those. IBM, Motorola, Freescale, and I'm sure others I can't think of right now, also American. The only major CPU maker I can think of that isn't is Hitachi. It isn't as though the US doesn't do plenty of technology, just like Japan. Often it is just different areas. You want a camera lens? Well then you are buying from Japan, they make all the best. You want a CPU? 999 times out of 1000 it is an American product.

Of course the funniest thing to me is that even when you get special, market specific things, it isn't as though you can't get them in other countries. The world is very small these days, commerce is global.

For example I mentioned high end headphones. Indeed the market is much larger for them in Japan than America (at least as a percentage of population). You can find them much easier. Perhaps because of this, Japanese companies don't always offer their entire lineup in the US. Audio Technica is that way. While they have national distribution in the US, they mostly sell their professional products. There are many of their audiophile products that are not available.

However, sitting on my desk next to me are some Audio Technical ATH-AD900 headphones. Not for sale on the US market, and the box they came in has Japanese lettering all over it (English too though). So what did I do, fly to Japan to get some headphones? No, of course not. The lack of these in the US market has created an arbitrage opportunity, and someone has stepped forward to take advantage of it. They buy the headphones in Japan and sell them to Americans through the Internet. So though Audio Technica may not sell them direct, they are still available.

At any rate, the Japan-lust that many geeks have has always been a source of annoyance for me. This idea that they have much better technology that they just hide from the rest of the world is silly.

Re:I have to ask

[gullevek]

To be honest. Japanese tech is geared towards the japanese user. It is not for westerners.

Sad but true. If you pay a TV here, you get all the nifty features for the japanese market. A lot of the features here are only for japanese people and follow the japanese mind.

That is why 90% of the foreigners were weeping tears that they could finally get an iPhone.

I didn't get one, because I already figured out all the small things what my phone can do and what I would miss on an iPhone.

Regarding TV buying. You need to look them up in kakaku.com and then haggle. Plus be careful how to compare lines from US to Japan. I tried to that from Japan to Europe but the model I bought here does not exist in their European line up. So I couldn't do 1:1 price compare.

Re:I have to ask

[gullevek]

They are all more or less correct.

I just see more and more people pay with their Suica or Pasomo than with their mobile phone.

I haven't seen many combining them on their phone, thought this is the most usefull stuff ever invented since sliced bread :)

Japanese Gadget Love

[erroneus]

I'm not sure I could go as far at to say that the Japanese practically invented gadget love, but they certainly contributed a lot to its present state. One interesting aspect of Japanese gadget love is that the duration of any given infatuation is typically a LOT shorter than in the U.S. In the U.S., our gadgets tend to range in age from 0 to 10 years. In Japan, my experience shows that the age range is about half of that and they REALLY care about features. Apple's features are "old news" to the Japanese and far more restrictive.

But with all that said, Apple's popularity is a mixed bag and not easily defined. The Japanese like the computers, but I am not so sure about their other gadgets. Another interesting observation to make is the approximately 50/50 split opinion of Sony gadgets. Half of Japan passionately hates Sony because their stuff breaks or fails to function too often. The other half loves Sony and is nationalistically proud to buy and own Sony gadgets.

Brand recognition and reputation is extremely important to the Japanese, but they also care that it works. In the U.S., these things are important but less so. And when it doesn't work, we usually blame ourselves or anything but the manufacturer and so bad products don't affect the reputation of the brand or company.

Re:Japanese Gadget Love

[gullevek]

Actually an average phone usage time is between 6 months and 1.5 years. It is rare to see phones beeing popular for longer.

The most high usage time is mostly around 6~8 months.

I do mobile phone stats for my clients since around 2004 and it is really interesting to see how fast new phones get adapted and become top device. It can go in 1~2 months for very popular models.

Ai Phone

[BladeDaughter]

Nihon no iPhone = ai denwa... nai desu. i only know one person who has it.. i think apps are more intresting to american market.. ganbate!!

Re:Ai Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to punch you for that "pun."

They don't hate it.

[girlintraining]

But they don't use it either. Here's the facts: The phone market for Japan is the tightest in the world. Frankly, the phones sold there are generations ahead of what's sold elsewhere in the world. These phones do video teleconferencing, can be used to do wireless credit card transactions, digital TV, some of them can be used as train/bus passes, and even interface with vending machines (just point and click, and viola). The "iphone" frankly has a poor feature set, and oh yes -- it is not a flip phone. The japanese love their flip phones from everything I've read. But as I'm sure there's someone who actually lives in japan around on the forums, please post back and tell us what the real story is... I only talk to people online.

So no, Japan doesn't hate the iphone, there is no conspiracy, Apple is simply behind the times in that country. But hey, if it makes you feel any better -- I doubt Comcast is making any inroads there either. ;)

Re:They don't hate it.

[Garse Janacek]

...from everything I've read...

...which apparently didn't include TFA. Wired fabricated a quote about how the iPhone is lame compared to Japanese phones, and tried to attach it to two separate Japanese "authorities" on the subject, and both of those people then repudiated Wired's attribution and said that actually the iPhone is their favorite phone. The whole point of the article is that the iPhone is doing fairly well and people like it a lot over there -- the main thing holding it back is its carrier, which is sort of an underdog. And it turns out the iPhone is primarily responsible for major growth in that carrier anyway.

So, you're basically repeating the same myths that the entire article was written to refute, since the article explicitly responds to most of your points... but by referring to "everything you've read", you still got modded informative. Oh well...

Re:They don't hate it.

[Reapman]

Agreed... I spent 6 weeks in Japan so although not very scientific, the people I met there were interested in seeing my iPhone because they've never seen one in use over there. I saw almost everyone there had a cellphone, never saw an iPhone. In Canada here I see them all the time. I agree my iPhone just doesn't have a lot of features compared to one of theirs.

Re:They don't hate it.

[mdwh2]

I entirely agree - and similar is true for Europe.

I would argue that trying to claim they "hate" the Iphone is still pro-Apple hate in a way - "If they're not buying the Iphone, it couldn't possibly be that they're happier using existing phones that have already been doing what the Iphone does, and more - no, it must be because they have an irrational hate for it", rationalises the Iphone fan.

And then, for bonus points, we can follow up with an article whining that this is part of some "pro-Apple agenda" - which is indeed, just what's happened.

Re:They don't hate it.

[Improv]

Regardless of whether the articles about it were built on fabricated quites or not (and if they are, it is a pity), given what I have seen of Japanese phones and conversations I've had, it is true that mid-to-high-end Japanese phones have a much richer feature set than the iPhone (even if their interface is not as nice). Is the iPhone hated? I doubt it - it's overpriced for the pricerange it's in, but it does have a very nice interface (and Apple has pushed the envelope enough here that other phone vendors are going to pay more attention towards their interfaces as well). It can't compete well with mid/high-end Japanese phones on features though.

Re:They don't hate it.

[kumanopuusan]

But as I'm sure there's someone who actually lives in japan around on the forums, please post back and tell us what the real story is... I only talk to people online.

Ok.

But they don't use it either. Here's the facts: The phone market for Japan is the tightest in the world. Frankly, the phones sold there are generations ahead of what's sold elsewhere in the world. These phones do video teleconferencing, can be used to do wireless credit card transactions, digital TV, some of them can be used as train/bus passes, and even interface with vending machines (just point and click, and viola).

Most phones have a video call option, but I've never used it, nor do I know anyone that uses it. Digital TV (called 1seg) is popular now, and it might be a feature that effects purchasing decisions. Pasmo/Suica (digital train pass cards) are already widely used, so there's not a real need to add the feature to a phone. Vending machines are everywhere, but the kind you're talking about must be pretty rare. So, yes, Digital TV is an important feature, but that hardly equates to the iPhone having a poor feature set. You'd be hard pressed to find any phones that truly outshine the iPhone here.

The "iphone" frankly has a poor feature set, and oh yes -- it is not a flip phone. The japanese love their flip phones from everything I've read.

Rather than characterizing the Japanese as flip-phone lovers, you should realize that fads are very important to them. The iPod is (was?) popular and trendy, and so is the iPhone. People will just buy whatever everyone else is talking about, until their friends start talking about the next big thing.

So no, Japan doesn't hate the iphone, there is no conspiracy, Apple is simply behind the times in that country. But hey, if it makes you feel any better -- I doubt Comcast is making any inroads there either. ;)

The iPhone seems to be pretty well received. It's sold by Softbank, the mobile carrier that uses Brad Pitt in its commercials (although not in its iPhone commercials), so I guess that means it's trendy.

Re:They don't hate it.

[mdwh2]

I would argue that trying to claim they "hate" the Iphone is still pro-Apple hate in a way

Gah, I meant pro-Apple hype.

Re:They don't hate it.

[NJRoadfan]

The "iphone" frankly has a poor feature set, and oh yes -- it is not a flip phone. The japanese love their flip phones from everything I've read.

Isn't this also the case in the US? I seem to recall Nokia having to produce more phones in the flip form factor due to the American preference. Must be the Star Trek Communicator influence... or Americans just can't be bothered with keypad locks or are concerned that the screen will be damaged.

Re:They don't hate it.

[girlintraining]

Just because an article was written to refute my points doesn't invalidate them. And the article was about what one person said or didn't say, and what one journalist did, or didn't, interpret those comments to be. Sorry if being a bit more broad in my analysis than the dick waving between a journalist and a self-styled expert has irritated you in some fashion. The iPhone's market share in Japan supports my assertion better than all the articles thus far submitted -- and my source is a bit less biased than "Apple Insider"... citation.

Re:They don't hate it.

[Estanislao Mart�nez]

The whole point of the article is that the iPhone is doing fairly well and people like it a lot over there -- the main thing holding it back is its carrier, which is sort of an underdog.

I didn't quite read it like that. Yes, I did get the impression that the carrier is holding it back, but also that the feature set isn't really tailored toward the Japanese market.

And it turns out the iPhone is primarily responsible for major growth in that carrier anyway.

Yup. My impression was that the iPhone is facing some significant obstacles over there, but doing reasonably well regardless. It sure sounds like Apple could improve its sales over there if it thought more carefully about the feature set and the carrier deals.

Re:They don't hate it.

[cthellis]

Kinda the point. The AI article treats it pretty realistically (if perhaps overly-hopeful) and in an actual, informed context, whereas the Wired article smacks of yellow journalism.

If Mr. Chen at Wired had actually used information and opinions from the reply sent to him by the guy he specifically asked "I was wondering if you could happened to know why the iPhone is failing there?" it would have been... you know... a decidedly different article. At the VERY least, a decidedly different quote. (Though I rather imagine he wouldn't have been mentioned at all, because his reply was in the opposing direction of the tale Chen wanted to tell.)

WIRED credibility?

[hwyhobo]

WIRED credibility is seriously called into question by such blatant errors which articles source denies.

WIRED credibility? I don't want to be disrespectful, but do people take WIRED seriously as a news source? I always thought it was just hundreds of pages of ads with a few fillers here and there masquerading as articles.

To be sure, they didn't invent it, they were just particularly blatant about it. PC Magazine & others have done it before, but at least they tried the "comparo"-style fillers to attract readers and create a pretense of content. WIRED never bothered to go to such lengths. To quote WIRED is a bit like using one of those supermarket stand recycled-paper car trader brochures as a source of auto industry news.

Re:WIRED credibility?

[db32]

WIRED is a f'ing joke. They are clueless sensationalists. My favorite is anything regarding the military. First they go on a huge rant about how security on military networks is a joke and the military is stupid and blah blah blah and they are wasting tax payer money surfing the web. Then a few months later they run a story about the Air Force locking down the proxy and blocking social networking sites among other things and suddenly it is all how they are crushing freedom and stealing free speach from people by blocking websites on military networks. They spend so much time mocking the military and the internet it is almost like they forgot what the D in DARPAnet stands for.

Those car trader things at least have relavent information in them. WIRED is more of the computer variant of the supermarket tabloids.

Re:WIRED credibility?

[ScrewMaster]

WIRED credibility is seriously called into question by such blatant errors which articles source denies.

WIRED credibility? I don't want to be disrespectful, but do people take WIRED seriously as a news source? I always thought it was just hundreds of pages of ads with a few fillers here and there masquerading as articles.

To be sure, they didn't invent it, they were just particularly blatant about it. PC Magazine & others have done it before, but at least they tried the "comparo"-style fillers to attract readers and create a pretense of content. WIRED never bothered to go to such lengths. To quote WIRED is a bit like using one of those supermarket stand recycled-paper car trader brochures as a source of auto industry news.

Wired is just about as accurate and trustworthy as The Onion, I think ... only not so entertaining.

IMO

[thexile]

The rebuke comes from AppleInsider. How partial can it be?

Re:IMO

[Garse Janacek]

The rebuke comes from AppleInsider. How partial can it be?

Good point. If only it cited its sources, thus allowing some way for its claims to be verified.

Come on now. This story is about blatant journalistic fraud. They give explicit documentation on how Wired completely fabricated important facts in order to make a sensational-sounding story. If their claim was "The iPhone is the best thing evar and EVERYONE LOVES IT", you'd have a point, but the article is mostly about how Wired repeatedly lied in its article, and then they present data to basically argue "the iPhone is doing pretty okay in Japan". They aren't making particularly inflated claims...

Re:IMO

[techprophet]

[![REBUKE]!]
You forgot the formatting.

Good point though....it's like Microsoft coming out and saying that businesses hate Linux...it's totally partial.

Re:IMO

[Anonymous Coward]

No it's like exposing Microsoft's Linux-bashing astroturf FUD campaigns at a site called LinuxInsider.

Tech prophet? How about Douche Bag?

#1 Music App

[sabernar]

My partners and I had the #1 Music app in Japan for several weeks last month (Boombox - http://tiny.cc/Lrd5g), so they are definitely interested in the iPhone. Just because they don't buy the phone in the same numbers as in the US doesn't mean they hate it. It seems like it's doing fairly well over there.

Re:#1 Music App

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you provide actual sales numbers, that only proves there is at least one person in Japan who bought your app and less persons who bought the other apps.

Re:#1 Music App

[sabernar]

I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was in the magnitude of several thousand downloads per day.

iphone....

[Anonymous Coward]

if we could just fit the iphone into the constitution america wrote...

An slashdot article turns out badly edited?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean that the story was badly edited and based on no trustworthy sources at all?

I wonder what this will do to the reputation of slashdot...

Re:An slashdot article turns out badly edited?

[Anne Thwacks]

I wonder what this will do to the reputation of slashdot...

You must be new here.

The corner of Irrelevant and Nonsensical

[Doomstalk]

As BoingBoing Gadgets' Rob Beschizza points out the fact of the matter is that the iPhone's not selling in Japan. You can argue all you want about why this is, but unless you're Apple's Japanese marketing director, it's largely irrelevant. No amount of ranting about perceived bias on Wired's part will change the numbers, all it does is prove that diehard Apple fans are immune to reality.

Re:The corner of Irrelevant and Nonsensical

[Anonymous Coward]

As BoingBoing Gadgets' Rob Beschizza points out the fact of the matter is that the iPhone's not selling in Japan.

No, he doesn't point out the fact. He merely makes a statement with ZERO supporting documentation from anyone. He doesn't even make up fake statements like WIRED might. He doesn't quote sales figures from ANYONE. He doesn't even say that he heard this from his cousin's friend's brother.

At this point, the article you link to is nothing more than a statement by a guy. In other words, it looks to me that Rob Beschizza JUST MADE IT UP in order to push some more buttons.

So what's your point?

Re:The corner of Irrelevant and Nonsensical

[Anonymous Coward]

Rob Beschizza is a complete douche bag for writing up a defense of Wired's complete lack of intellectual honesty in which he does not IDENTIFY HIMSELF AS A FREQUENT WIRED WRITER.

Wired is full of asshats who make shit up and invent quotes and then vigorously defend each other when called out on it, deflecting attention to stupid comments from angry readers.

Wired is so fucking lame and disingenuous.

Re:The corner of Irrelevant and Nonsensical

[Bushcat]

iPhone is popular in Japan, but the market works against it: It's carried by Softbank, the #3 player in the market after Docomo and au. Softbank's market share means that the #1-selling phone on the Softbank network for any particular month is around #25 among all phones in Japan. For most new phones, the peak sales period is the first 6 weeks after release. After that, the numbers plummet. In contrast, iPhone has been Softbank's best-selling phone month after month. So, among the people who are in a position to buy it, it's popular. SB's got around 18 million subscribers. Because of the way phone contracts are written, people keep their phones for just over 2 years. So each month, iPhone's maximum potential market is only 720,000 people.

Hypocrite Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

That's pretty rich coming from someone who wants to get sick more often so he can consume more health insurance dollars than the Joneses. That's foolish posturing if I ever saw it.

iphones just a usa thing

[Anonymous Coward]

As I said on the last article - the japanese and europeans don't really "hate" the iphone, but it's just another phone, and not a particularly great one, in those markets. It's only in the USA where it was somehow amazing, due to the incredibly crap nature of the US phone market prior to its introduction.

Go to the website of a typical UK mobile phone supermarket and check out the sort of phones the eurotrash gets. Yes, the Apple iphone is there. But it's just another phone among *many*, and due to its lack of functionality that europeans expect like java, and its well-known lock-in, it's not wildly popular. It's not the prettiest (check out the motorola jewel), and certainly not the most featureful (see, well, most of the other comparably priced phones)

It hasn't really "failed", it's just failed to live up to hype, apple have to compete as just another vendor in non-US markets.

Re:"posslble anti-Apple agenda"? are you kidding m

[Trillan]

It's hard to justify "58% of iPod users would buy a Zune instead!" as a fair and balanced study.

Idiot Alert

[mdwh2]

I'm more concerned that someone is so petty as to trawl someone's posting history, just to make an ad hominem attack based on something that is completely irrelevant to the original post.

You fail basic reading comprehension anyway, since he was talking about health taxes, not insurance. He was talking about getting his money's worth from his taxes that he has to pay anyway - if Iphones were, heaven forbid, ever handed out to people, funded for taxation, then you can bet that he, and I, would be picking up our Iphones, since we paid for them anyway. Not to mention that his post was clearly not meant to be serious.

Here, however, keeping up with the Jones means throwing away money. If you can't see the difference between throwing money away, and taking what you've had to pay for anyway, no wonder you're happy to spend money on Iphones just to be cool.

A shame you aren't willing to be honest about your posting history, Anonymous Coward - what hypocrisy are you hiding?

Re:Idiot Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical slashdot "argument". You attack the messenger while completely ignoring the point. You can complain about my posting as AC (I haven't bothered creating an account). You can call me a petty hypocrite, and an idiot. Why don't you throw "doo-doo head" in there too? Do you think it might strengthen your point? The fact that you must resort to such attacks is a sign that your argument is too weak to stand on its own merits.

Clearly then, you must subconsciously realize that my argument is solid. One who criticizes wasteful consumption in others surely must be a hypocrite to endorse it in oneself. Taxation is irrelevant; consumption happens at the time the money is spent, not when it is taxed. If you waste public resources you waste everyone's resources. If you waste money on debt spending you ruin the economy for everyone. It is the exact same thing, motivated by the exact same competitive egomania.

Re:Idiot Alert

[Idiomatick]

A healthy person getting sick so that he can use the tax money he paid results in no net gain or loss for the individual. But results in a net loss for the country and temporary discomfort for the individual. So it IS throwing away money. But instead of getting a pointless novelty out of it all you get is hurt. So he proved that commodore64_love is vindictive to the point of idiocy if nothing else. That and he is made irrational by his ideals. Though it totally is ad hominem since i do agree with "Status symbols are for fools". I also learned that crazy right-wingers can also be anti-culture anti-spending which seems unusual.

I don't think it matters though, he adhominems himself in his sig (pro fox news is worse than any views he could possibly hold on healthcare).

The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[zerojoker]

I am sorry, but this is not true anymore. Or rather, it depends on how you define "ahead".
Japanese cell-phones are all about the "bling".
Take my phone for example, which looks great on the feature-list: 3 MP Camera, Japanese-English dictionary, Web-browser etc. etc.
Thing is, that most of the features are so hard to use, that noone ever uses them.
The Web-browser is a joke. It works in theory, in practice it completely fails at every second web-page.
Sure, you can view i-mode pages (which is quite a big thing in Japan) but in the "western"-world everyone is interested in the "real"-web.
There is basically no function to synch the calendar/mails with the PC. No software as far as I know (docomo). Nobody synchs his cellphone with the PC, that's why.
There is no bluetooth, even among the latest models, so, how to connect to your PC, i.e. for sharing mp3/pictures etc.?
It's so hard to enter a word in the dictionary (you have to go through 4 or 5 layers of menus), that you're faster looking it up in a paper-dictionary.
Japanese people use their phone for three things: Phone, e-mail/messaging and surfing i-mode.
That's it. In 2000, that was maybe 10 years ahead. Nowadays it's a joke.
btw, you know what was the comment of my gf, when I said that I would like to have a phone with a full qwerty-keyboard, complaining that, at that time, no phone was available?
Who would've want that anyway? It's too bulky, it looks ugly!
It's all about the bling (TM). If the iPhone sells reasonable it's not because of the revolutionary way of actually being able to use the features. It sells because it from Apple and considered "cool" and "western". Brand recognition, like Starbucks.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[filthpickle]

It's all about the bling (TM)

I think that the forums here have conclusively proven that only Americans could be so crass. Are you suggesting that acting that way is just part of the human condition for some people? A bold statement sir.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

I lol'd.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[techprophet]

Brand recognition, like Starbucks.

Same thing in many areas. I mention Halo and people know what I am talking about, but Crysis and half my friends have never heard of it. Clothing, software, hardware, food. It's all the same in that regard.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[Blakey Rat]

How do phones like Blackberries do in Japan? I find it really, really hard to believe that businessmen don't sync their phones with their email. That's a huge segment of the cellphone market here in the US. (And the smartest thing Apple ever did with the iPhone is adding in Exchange sync, so they could eat away at Blackberry.)

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[SectoidRandom]

Japanese are not concerned with "Bling", conclusively proven?

Are you kidding?

Have you been to Tokyo?

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[SectoidRandom]

I don't know how well Blackberries do in Japan, but having just moved to Canada from England I am astounded by the number of Blackberries I see here!

In Europe the only people who have one of those are the poor people who's boss has suckered them into accepting one so that they can be "at work 24/7". :) Well more seriously, the Blackberry market in Europe is driven entirely by BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server) which was up until only 2 or so years ago the only reliable way to get corporate email on mobile devices in a controlled fashion (Excluding Nokia's similar software which was far more expensive). Fortunately now Exchange does all that out of the box so the field has opened right up and anyone can download a £10 application to enable Push sync with Exchange on just about any phone.

It surprises me how many consumers in North America have Blackberries, but of course constant marketing and the whole first to market thing does have considerable weight..

Personally the day I again accept a mobile device with my corporate email on it again is the day I give up on my happy life. :)

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[filthpickle]

"the forums here" was the joke. But to answer your questions, sorta and no.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[Scrameustache]

the features are so hard to use, that noone ever uses them.

And that's why Apple gets away with higher prices for similar devices: Their interfaces are polished and shiny and functional.

There were MP3 players before the iPod, but none that worked so elegantly.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[earthbound kid]

btw, you know what was the comment of my gf, when I said that I would like to have a phone with a full qwerty-keyboard, complaining that, at that time, no phone was available?

The Japanese I know prefer cellphone-style input for Japanese to qwerty. The Japanese alphabet just so happens to split up logically into ten groups, so it makes a lot of sense to use a number pad to type them. Combined with predictive text, it's pretty quick. On the other hand, the layout of the qwerty keyboard is basically random. So, the Japanese aren't really interested in using micro keyboards when a number pad works well enough and doesn't hurt your thumbs.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[kklein]

A few niche items (like the R4 card for the DS) are easier to find in Tokyo than in the suburbs of the US. But it would be just as easy to find in a major city like New York or Chicago.

Maybe (although I don't think "Western" is as big a deal as just "new"--let's get over ourselves, shall we?).

However, what I have noticed is that when someone gets it for its novelty, they don't like it. This is because it does not work the way that they are used to. It works like a computer (which is why I like it), and they are used to thinks working like a cellphone (i.e. barely).

Once I show them how to get around, and the power of applications, their outlook changes and they come to really like it.

That being said, only people like you and me, who do mostly roman-character input, would like a QWERTY keyboard (real or virtual). Japanese text entry with a numeric keypad is actually really easy, especially for people who are used to that as their primary input method (surpassing actual keyboards). This is probably the biggest hurdle to Japanese iPhone adoption--it was designed partially out of the understanding that the user hates text entry on the numeric keypad, and that just isn't the case here.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

There is basically no function to synch the calendar/mails with the PC. No software as far as I know (docomo). Nobody synchs his cellphone with the PC, that's why.

You didn't look far enough.

There is no bluetooth, even among the latest models, so, how to connect to your PC, i.e. for sharing mp3/pictures etc.?

DoCoMo has historically had relatively few Bluetooth-enabled models, but several of the latest models do--P-01A and SH-01A both do, for example. Softbank has better selection of Bluetooth models, mainly because of their Samsung/LG/Nokia lineup. And there's also this thing called an USB-to-FOMA cable....

It's so hard to enter a word in the dictionary (you have to go through 4 or 5 layers of menus), that you're faster looking it up in a paper-dictionary.

I think so too, but surely you have seen how fast teenage girls navigate through those menus. Admit it. You are a luddite. So am I.

btw, you know what was the comment of my gf, when I said that I would like to have a phone with a full qwerty-keyboard, complaining that, at that time, no phone was available? Who would've want that anyway? It's too bulky, it looks ugly!

Completely agreed. It can be convenient, but it's butt ugly. I have a BlackBerry for work, and it's convenient, but it's still ugly, and the only reason it's not even uglier is because the keys are so small I can barely press them without making mistakes. You want a nice keyboard? Grab a Sharp Zaurus before they run out of stock. That was an ideal keyboard for two-thumb typing, but apparently no one wanted one besides me.

It's all about the bling (TM). If the iPhone sells reasonable it's not because of the revolutionary way of actually being able to use the features. It sells because it from Apple and considered "cool" and "western". Brand recognition, like Starbucks.

Bwa-hahahaha! Tell us another one! You westerners always amuse us with your hubris!

No electrical appliance in this country sells because it is "cool" and "western," except maybe for hi-fi audio and German cameras. Fashion, definitely; food, sometimes; cars, in rare cases; home electronics, furgitaboutit. Apple sells not because it is western, but because A) it is Apple, and B) they market their product as as well-engineered, compact cute, and premium, all of which are what the Japanese like in their own product. Nokia tried hard to break into the Japanese market by being "cool" and "western," and was sent packing earlier this year because they failed to appreciate the above.

The iPhone is indeed selling badly in Japan--Softbank recently reduced both the selling price and the monthly tariff to stimulate sales. I'm not surprised at all, and I say that as someone who bought one on Week 1 and still use it every day. It's a great web terminal, yes, but a clunky phone, and integrates terribly with the existing mobile web in Japan. If anything, it is proof that there is no such thing as an infatuation with the "cool" and "western" in the Japanese electronics market.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no bluetooth, even among the latest models, so, how to connect to your PC, i.e. for sharing mp3/pictures etc.?

No bluetooth? My SH901 from 2006 certainly has it.

Japanese people use their phone for three things: Phone, e-mail/messaging and surfing i-mode.

And one small thing... watching TV. The lack of one-seg support was the main reason many of my friends didn't consider it - but the ipod made a deep impression these last four years, and there was a lot of interest in the iphone. I even know half a dozen people with one now.

btw, you know what was the comment of my gf, when I said that I would like to have a phone with a full qwerty-keyboard, complaining that, at that time, no phone was available?

Did you ever consider that for the Japanese, it is bulky, pointless and ugly? Learn to type using the ha-hi-fu-he-ho method with predictive matching, and suddenly you find yourself agreeing. Japanese as a language was tailor made for emailing on a cell-phone. If I need to write an email in English, I probably don't need to be writing it from my cellphone anyways...

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[MMInterface]

It's all about the bling (TM)

I think that the forums here have conclusively proven that only Americans could be so crass. Are you suggesting that acting that way is just part of the human condition for some people? A bold statement sir.

No, many people in Tokyo would describe the situation the same way, so its not an American thing, it's really just common sense. In fact it's more of an American thing to consider this a bold statement because the standards for political correctness are different in Japan. Also I'm not sure if he is American. The formatting of his post looks Japanese, so I'm not sure. Other than that it was the most accurate post I have seen on the subject here, down to the quotes.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[filthpickle]

yeah...I agreed with him too. The post was more about the forums here than the actual situation in Japan...since this is the 2nd time I've had to explain it further I'm willing to accept that it was obviously poorly written.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead

[dimension6]

As for the syncing on DoCoMo, try "datalink", available here: http://datalink.nttdocomo.co.jp/

RoughlyDrafted? Lunatic Fringe!

[Anonymous Coward]

Any submission that has to use not one, not two, but THREE RoughlyDrafted.com links to fortify its thesis is automatically full of 100% FAIL.

Dilger's RoughlyDrafted has always been the "lunatic fringe of Mac fandom". His writing is obnoxious, pedantic, unhinged, and needlessly and personally insulting. He's a loon, and people who use his "arguments" to validate their own are risking being lumped into the loon category as well.

Re:RoughlyDrafted? Lunatic Fringe!

[DECS]

At least I'm not an anonymous coward when I'm "obnoxious, pedantic, unhinged and needlessly and personally insulting."

What an outrageous hypocrite you are. Your quote, by Ian Betteridge, was part of his tirade in sad blog posting that didn't say anything of substance, but was just stringing together insults as you did. You sure sound a lot like Ian.

Greenpeace also used that quote, all they could find on me after googling for hate mail, in its desperate attempts to suggest my expose of its grandstanding pseudo-environmental attacks on Apple were best ignored by potential contributors.

Join Don Quixote's barking dogs far behind me.

Re:RoughlyDrafted? Lunatic Fringe!

[cthellis]

Prince McLean is the pseudonym Daniel Eran Dilger uses for articles on AppleInsider. He cross-links pretty liberally.

Speaks kind of poorly that the Wired author can get so utterly and obviously humiliated by "lunatic fringe," though, don't it? Not to mention the people he "quotes" in his article. (And has since modified.) Not to mention having his points specifically contradicted by the June 2008 Wired article he links to.

Re:RoughlyDrafted? Lunatic Fringe!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look, it's the fully paid-for astroturfer attempting to peddle his crooked numbers and outright lies again. Big surpise,

The only thing keep this pathetic waste of human flesh from a thousands libel lawsuits is the mass of Apple corporate lawyers he has backing him.

Why don't you disclose your ties to Apple? Why don't you tell the nice people how much money you're paid to flood the internet with your ridiculously flawed 'data', laughable 'essays', and outright incompetant attempts at FUD?

I guess if people knew the truth, it would hurt Apple too much. No way anyone at corporate would want to be associated with a pariah like yourself.

Now we can look back at the comments...

[Karganeth]

...And laugh at all the idiots who thought it was "obvious" the iPhone was doomed to be a failure in Japan.

He's correct

[Anonymous Coward]

Japan has HUGE import restrictions, they are as protectionist as it gets this side of just banning imports. He's speaking commonly known in economic circles truth, YOU go do some research and keep up with things if you call bullshit. This is SUCH common knowledge that it ain't funny. China is the same way, they have much larger import tariffs and other hoop jumping for imports than the US does. This crap about free trade and the US being overly protectionist is joke, we don't even have across the board equally balanced *fair* trade yet, which would be equal or zero tariffs. The US is more or less crippled for most products and exporting now, one of many reasons we have such a huge trade deficit. Now I am speaking in general terms, I know there are a few discrepancies, but by and large we have one of the planet's more liberal import policies compared to all the other major industrialized nations and we by far make it a lot easier for outsiders to actually *own* the factories and so on here outright without having a major percentage being domestically owned. And that is one of many reasons so many manufacturers went overseas, those nations make it much easier to produce there (by basically giving away most of the ownership to local fatcats as a form of bribe) than to just import there, so that is what happens. Now recently their import restrictions have been changing, because so many outside nations were really starting to complain to Japan about their policies, but it hasn't totally changed yet, because a lot of ther manufacturers simply can't compete on cost with China and some other Asian nations. And forget agriculture, Japan will do whatever it takes to keep their farms intact, for instance, there is a 700% import tariff on rice. That's right, seven hundred per cent.

Re:He's correct

[Dogtanian]

He's speaking commonly known in economic circles truth, YOU go do some research and keep up with things if you call bullshit.

No, the person who originally made the claims is the one responsible for backing them up. Period.

If it's as obvious as you claim, it should hardly be onerous to do so.

Not saying I necessarily disagree with you or the OP, but you're mistaken in who the burden of proof lies with.

Re:He's correct

[SvnLyrBrto]

> And forget agriculture, Japan will do whatever it takes to keep their farms intact,
> for instance, there is a 700% import tariff on rice. That's right, seven hundred per cent.

You were doing good until this bit of rubbish led you to fall flat on your face.

Yes, Japan goes out of their way to keep their local agriculture in business. But that has nothing to do with protectionism or bigotry against other countries food products. You should see how much they're willing and HAPPY to pay for foreign produce. It's because they're an island nation. And there are very good (and very obvious) strategic reasons for an island nation to keep their local agriculture up and running, even if other countries can produce foodstuffs cheaper. And that applies even more when said island nation is on the doorstep of such nuclear armed and aggressively hostile neighbors as China and Russia and one completely batshit insane country which may or may not have nukes and has the habit of periodically firing missiles over Japan.

cya,
john

Why Americans Hate the P905i

[carlzum]

The Japanese phone of choice, the Panasonic P905i, would be a tough sell in the US. Sure, a big screen and TV tuner are nice features, but it's big and ugly. Americans spend their time in their cars and homes, surrounded by televisions. A handheld TV may be useful in Japan, but I doubt many people in the US would waste their time uploading videos to their phone. The iPhone has a thin case, simple interface, and applications Americans want on the go (email, web, youtube, etc). Surprise, people in Japan and the US have different preferences.

Re:Why Americans Hate the P905i

[trawg]

Heh, most of the rest of us outside the US find American cars big and ugly as well, and they seem to do OK over there :)

Re:Why Americans Hate the P905i

[carlzum]

they seem to do OK over there :)

You must not have seen US automakers' stock prices lately ;)

Re:Why Americans Hate the P905i

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm ugly in your sense of beauty?
And you speak for the whole human race? American? European? Or just for Carlzum? So what should I care about your thoughts on its beauty?

  You know what is beautiful?
The fact it
"the P905i runs the LiMo open-source Linux mobile OSand supports Windows Media video and audio files. Thereâ(TM)s a full internet browser, document viewer, Bluetooth and the ability to record mobile TV direct to a microSD card. As a triband GSM (900/1800/1900MHz), W-CDMA/HSDPA (800MHZ, 1.7/2GHz) device you could probably pick one up on import, but donâ(TM)t expect all the shiny features to work. No, just covet from a distance like the rest of us.

fennec

[zogger]

I think you mean Fennec for the mobile browser. The name follows a theme, the Fennec is a small African fox.

not credible

[Anonymous Coward]

appleinsider.com is supposed to be a credible information source, especially in debunking an article critical of an Apple product?

That's like using the Tehran Times as a "credible information source" to debunk articles critical of the clerical-fascist regime in Iran.

No, the irrational claim is to be pro-free trade.

[tjstork]

You were wrong when you identified a trade barrier as a cultural one, now you're trying to avoid responsibility for making unsubstantiated assertions.

Can you identify for me the date when US and Japanese trade will be balanced? See, that's the problem, you can't. And in fact, trade with them has been in deficit for 40 years, and I'd venture to say that, they have no desire to trade equally. Otherwise, it would have been accomplished.

Just when's trade going to be balanced? Please, let's have a date.

That's fair.

[tjstork]

Bad example. Japan doesn't want anyone (U.S. or otherwise) entering their country at will and damaging their domestic industries. You know, like we let them do to us. I know you want to show that there's a specific bias against U.S. products, but you'll have to do better than that

Alright, that's a fair observation. It's an anti-foreign thing. I can buy that. That's weird thing for Americans to grasp, as acceptance of foreign is so entrenched that I've been to dinner with people bitching about Japanese cars and Mexicans, as they drive their Toyotas and order burritos, corn chips and salsa. In America everything is foreign.

Re:That's fair.

[ScrewMaster]

Bad example. Japan doesn't want anyone (U.S. or otherwise) entering their country at will and damaging their domestic industries. You know, like we let them do to us. I know you want to show that there's a specific bias against U.S. products, but you'll have to do better than that

Alright, that's a fair observation. It's an anti-foreign thing. I can buy that. That's weird thing for Americans to grasp, as acceptance of foreign is so entrenched that I've been to dinner with people bitching about Japanese cars and Mexicans, as they drive their Toyotas and order burritos, corn chips and salsa. In America everything is foreign.

Well, I think it's not so much an expression of xenophobia (although that may be a factor, I really don't know) as it is a recognition that other countries and their corporate overlords have their own agendas, and that allowing said countries to decimate your key industries is a bad idea. I wish we'd played matters a bit closer to the vest ourselves, but we didn't and now we're paying a price for it.

Acceptance of foreign, as you put it, is something any nation which has achieved a level of international trade comparable to the U.S. has to achieve. Those foreigners are people who invest in us, buy our products, and ultimately help pay our salaries. So it's really hard to justify a generalized anti-foreign attitude under such circumstances. I know that runs contrary to the apparently popular belief among (ahem) foreigners that Americans are all xenophobic and hate anyone who wasn't born here. That's really not true, although I must admit I'm taking a dislike to my Hispanic next-door neighbor who's belting out a couple of kilowatts of dance music at two a.m. every night. But it's not because he's Hispanic ... it's because he's a dick.

Wasn't always that way, of course ... my grandfather, back in the day, wouldn't allow any "japanese junk" in his house. To be fair, back in those days most of what the Japanese manufactured was junk ... that's certainly changed.

No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[tjstork]

I'd take a Japanese-built house over an American-built one any day.

See, there is a cultural bias! That would prove my point. I mean, American houses are built larger, last longer, have central heat and central air, larger bathrooms, working bathtubs, often have fireplaces, features which Japanese houses tend to lack, and you want the Japanese house, because you are a bigot. Like I said, there is a cultural bias there and that's why we can't have free trade.

But you need to read on:

http://www.debito.org/?p=2111

In Japan houses are built to last 30 years, at most, and have generally no resale value. They are more consumer items, like cars are in the USA.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[multimediavt]

Wow, it's just bigot-on-bigot action here! As a trained architect I can tell you that all of the size and amenity differences you pointed out as being better in American homes are all based in Western cultural norms. The data you used for housing longevity differences is also incorrect. In the U.S. homes are built to last 30 to 40 years (the average lifetime of a roof in a temperate climate).

You're just batting a thousand on this topic tjstork. I think it would be best for you to stop typing now.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, take a moment to think before you call somebody names. It is unnecessary to the discussion. Also, try to compare items not just by your culture's view. Japanese houses are far more energy and resource efficient, which has only just started to come into mainstream American thought (I mean in the last decade). Also, materials are far more expensive in Japan, as is land cost.
So, in your post calling a person a bigot and showing that he has cultural bias, you show many of the same characteristics. I do not mean to pick a fight, or get anybody angry. I just want to point out that the vast cultural and societal differences between countries causes their populations to focus on different things.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bollocks. Japanese houses rarely have proper insulation, and the ridiculous heating is lulz-worthy. Of course American homes aren't usually designed with a keen eye toward efficiency either, because it usually increases upfront costs. A lot of differences that would annoy Westerners are optimizations for space in a culture that tries to shove almost half of the U.S. population into a few urban centers.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[tiananmen tank man]

You are assuming BIGGER is better.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Ilpalazzo]

But Japanese construction workers build things very fast. If they can rebuild Tokyo after Godzilla destroys half of it by the time I put the next disc in; rebuilding a house should be easy.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Concerned Onlooker]

Or perhaps he's not bigoted but simply lives in Southern California, where construction quality is an absolute joke, especially for new housing. My wife and I moved into a new condo that subsequently required $30,000 of repairs to make it mostly rain proof (there's still some work that needs to be done). That money came out of our pockets as the builder refused to correct the situation, and as it turns out lawyers are absolutely worthless when it comes to getting anything results when it comes to "small" jobs like this.

Lest you think this is a one-of-a-kind situation, this is the second new building we've been in in the past 7 years. The first one was exactly the same situation. Pretty building, crap construction that you can't see because it's hidden behind the walls and under the roof. So, yeah, I'd love to try a Japanese built house. Built to last only 30 years you say? That would be an improvement over the one we're living in now.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[riperrin]

I live in the UK. When my house was built there where only 31 states in the USA. I wouldn't consider this unusual for my neighborhood. During my visit to the states, Massachusetts, buildings that where considered "really old" over here would be considered "well I suppose its old really if you think about it, but not in comparison to the local pub". You get the jist. Where my Grandparents live; houses that have been up for 30-50 years are being torn down and rebuilt. As such they live in a street where most houses have been built in the last 15 years. The difference between my area and my grandparents area is they had the shit blown out of it during WWII and my area didn't. As a consequence the area in which they live was rebuilt rather hastily in the 50s and 60s. Poor planning, building techniques, materials and added social change has meant that these areas where awful to live in. As such these areas are being regenerated. I have no idea what things are like in Japan, but I would imagine this could be a possible explanation for "houses being built to last 30 years at most". Maybe they where built to last, but it's time to change and move on.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

This information is incorrect and what is more out of date. The Debito housebuilding story is also dated, and, typically, exaggerated.

Japanese build houses to last 15 years, not 30 years. Or, rather, that was the practice back in the day. Now it's a completely different story. You get a massive tax credit for building a 100 year house, in fact. So, policy has done an about face, and the stress in now on building houses that not only have durability, but also adaptability. Some of the principles espoused in this new way of thinking are reminiscent of PATH, for instance the forced separation of structure from services (wiring and pipes in chases where possible, instead of buried in walls).

As for rapid depreciation in market value of the existing house, this has nothing to do with build quality. It's again rooted in taxation and other regulatory policy. Such rapid depreciation does not exist with commercial structures, which demonstrates that with residential it's artificially induced.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[stephanruby]

I'd take a Japanese-built house over an American-built one any day.

This is spoken by someone who has never staid in a Japanese-built house, a traditional Japanese-style hotel may be, but not a real Japanese house.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Idiomatick]

How'd this get modded up? The GP was saying you can't export houses. Which should be pretty fucking obvious. And he gets modded up for being offtopic?

Anyways its apples and oranges. Japanese places are usually apartments and their value is based on how close it is to a train stop. Alot of japanese places have smaller baths because space is expensive as fuck if you are living in tokyo. And their are public onsen or pools that people go to. Fireplaces would be really stupid in most of japan and are unavailable in alot of new houses in the us anyways. Its a relic of a historical period in the US why would they exist in japan? You'd have to go miles to get wood and you would really look insane chopping down a tree in japan its something that is not done. Cultural differences. US houses last longer, Japanese houses are newer, its a trade off. Japanese places are more communal. They have way faster internet(for the /.ers) they have better appliances and are convenient! In the US you can live in endless suburbia where you drive a few miles past houses until you get to the city. In japan you walk 2minutes, wait at a station for 2minutes and read the paper, watch tv or text people while you wait to get to work. This wouldn't be possible if Japan used the US' system. Totally different beasts.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[tjstork]

How'd this get modded up? The GP was saying you can't export houses. Which should be pretty fucking obvious. And he gets modded up for being offtopic?

What can't you export houses? I mean, theoretically, you could prefab them so they lay in flat sections, and assemble them overseas. The Japanese are very good at exporting all the pieces of a car for assembly in some other country. There's no reason the same could not be done for houses, which I think are simpler devices. I mean, if you wanted to build a house for export to Japan, you could load up a ship with all the prefab parts, understand their culture and have some design options and amenities that they don't necessarily have, partner with a local supplier for the electronics, and even market it as using Japanese tools, and you'd be off to the races. I rather think that the Japanese consumer might be as ready for an American style house that lasts longer and hold their value more just as much as Americans were, well ready for cars that last longer and hold their value more.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[tjstork]

In the U.S. homes are built to last 30 to 40 years (the average lifetime of a roof in a temperate climate).

Yeah, but its not really -that- much money to throw a new roof on a house, and that's actually only for the midrange houses. And, if you want to pay for it, you can get much, much longer lasting roofs if you want to pay for the upfront costs of it.

And, the thing is, there's a lot of 100 year old houses in America, and quite a few houses in the 70 year range and up.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[tjstork]

Or perhaps he's not bigoted but simply lives in Southern California, where construction quality is an absolute joke, especially for new housing

Actually, its the opposite. California just has a huge amount of pressure because it was booming in population for so long. But I've been to LA and yeah, a lot of it was pretty rough looking stuff.

See, I live in the northeast where you still have construction companies that are family owned and have been in business for quite a long time. I owned a McMansion for about eight years and found it to be rather well built. The advantage was that I had it built and so if there were problems, I could get things sorted out before the drywall went up.

Still, I wanted something smaller, cashed out and am renting a 75 year old brick house with a kick fireplace and real hardwood floors. This is a neighborhood where down the street from me are a number of stone houses that were built around 1900 or so for managers at the then up and coming DuPont. Those things are beautiful.

So, yeah, I'd love to try a Japanese built house. Built to last only 30 years you say? That would be an improvement over the one we're living in now.

You need to move the East Coast or at least to the midwest. I'd recommend the "old burbs" of any major American city and find yourself a 75 year old or older house that has been modernized. I'd bet the charm and character of the place would win you over.

and as it turns out lawyers are absolutely worthless when it comes to getting anything results when it comes to "small" jobs like this.

Yeah, pretty much if you buy a brand new house, once you get the mortgage, there's really not anything you can do to get it fixed after the fact. In Delaware, Capano is famous for screwing people like that. Granted, they make a beautiful house but if something goes wrong, they bail completely after they get your money. You really do have to know the builder and the track record. Blenheim is a good builder and they actually bring some California design elements into their work but without all the crap. A really good builder is also AP Orleans. They were actually founded by a guy who survived the holocaust and came to America, started out building really good houses.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Nekomusume]

I want a Japanese-built house too! Mostly because i'd much rather live in Japan than in the US.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[multimediavt]

Yeah, but its not really -that- much money to throw a new roof on a house, and that's actually only for the midrange houses. And, if you want to pay for it, you can get much, much longer lasting roofs if you want to pay for the upfront costs of it.

Ummm, wrong again. A new roof for a home will cost anywhere between 10% and 20% of the assessed value of a home depending on the extent of decay/damage and the type of roof being put in place.

And, the thing is, there's a lot of 100 year old houses in America, and quite a few houses in the 70 year range and up.

Have you ever been to Japan?!?!?! There are structures there thousands of years old! You REALLY need to stop typing now.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[PixetaledPikachu]

But Japanese construction workers build things very fast. If they can rebuild Tokyo after Godzilla destroys half of it by the time I put the next disc in; rebuilding a house should be easy.

They rebuild their city on daily basis, scheduled by the currently running super sentai series.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[kimvette]

You can however invest in more efficient heaters. I installed a vent-free natural gas heater and heat all winter to date cost me under $200, keeping my apartment at 75*F and some days warmer. Last year I kept the temp under 60*F much of the time and heat cost me over $1,500 using oil.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Concerned Onlooker]

Yes, I'm sure I did paint that comment with my widest brush. Of course there are good builders. Just probably not in Santa Monica unless you're in the multi-million dollar range. And I should mention that I did in fact grow up in the midwest, where stuff had to be built well to withstand the winters. :-)

Man, your neighborhood sounds charming....

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[mako1138]

The Japanese are very good at exporting all the pieces of a car for assembly in some other country.

That's not how it works. Lean manufacturing is based on having your supply chain located geographically close to the main factory, and running on close to zero inventory. Nowadays nearly every car company has realized that this is the way to go.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I certainly hope you are lying about being a trained architect, or at least that you don't work in my state. If what you say is true, there must be a *massive* market for rebuilding all those 30 and 40 year-old tracts. Oh, wait.... there isn't. It's true that your typical *roof* is designed to last 30 to 40 years, but that's just the shingles and underlayment, not the structure.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[gullevek]

I tend to differ, plus I would take debito with grain of salt.

It depends what house you buy. There are houses built with steel girders and special earth quake resistance, and then there are much cheaper ones.

They do not have central heating in Tokyo or southern parts, but up in the north they definitely do. But they will all have Air conditioning, electronic controlled bath-tub water fillers + reheating, security systems and what not else.

Do they have a resell value? No idea. Most the time I see them torn down after the last old person dies and be replaced with something else.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[FictionPimp]

Hmmm cost of a new roof on my house (under 10k) cost to build my house new on todays market over 160k). Which one is my best bet?

Roof prices could be cheaper if I head to home depot and pick up a truck load of 'undocumented workers'.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[stuntpope]

The contention that a house's longevity is measured in the duration of its first roof is silly.

It's not uncommon for a house to undergo at least one roof replacement during its useful life. My house's total roof replacement, with quite a bit of rotted wood replaced, cost less than 1 percent of the assessed value. My house was built in 1935. Nearby is a town with homes built in the 1700s, and they are lived in.

Who in Japan is living in 1000 year old houses? You are confusing the length in years of continuous habitation with the age of homes today's people are living in. North America has 1000 year old structures, but nobody is living in them.

And I've been to Japan. Missed the "thousands of year old" houses, though.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Gilmoure]

The advantage was that I had it built and so if there were problems, I could get things sorted out before the drywall went up.

Yup, for our second house (after leaving Fla in 2004), we went with a local builder, not a large track house builder), but using standard track house plans. We made a couple small changes (door/window locations) but, like you said, were able to catch things by going out every day and looking things over. The carpenters were a husband wife team that were friendly and amazingly quick with their work (and didn't mind my helping out on weekends), the electricians were easy to work with and even allowed my low-voltage cable work to go under their permit (my work was up to code). Sure, was pain in ass, as opposed to just moving in, especially getting permits for road/water/electricity, before builder took over, but now I have a house that I can repair, and have plans and photos of every stud, electrical line, plumbing line, etc.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Yuuki Dasu]

Not to argue with your specific claims which, quite accurately, show the shortcomings in the GP's post, but Japanese houses, for the most part, really fail at insulation. I say this as someone who lives there. My apartment is bad at it, my friends' new apartments are bad at it, my other friends' houses are bad at it. In many ways, it's pretty frustrating.

Of course, as you say, things are largely due to Japanese cultural norms, and here is no exception. In Japan, the winter pastime is to sit around with you legs under a short table with a heavy blanket over it, with a heater built into the table. It keeps you nice and warm, but you get REALLY sedentary.

To get (briefly) on topic, Japan is, if anything, foreign-crazy. People mention ipods, etc, but that's not even the whole story. You know the anime-lovers back home who wear clothes with kanji they can't read on them? In Japan, it's the opposite. Most Japanese don't go to quite the unwashed extremes of their American brethren for their love of foreign culture, but it's a lot broader; everyone has clothing, bags, etc with English on them, and about 95% of them don't understand what their own clothes mean. They cram down their hamburgers and hotdogs like champions. They watch our TV shows and movies.

The iphone isn't popular here because it doesn't fit the lifestyle, and also because Softbank is a horrible, horrible service provider.

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bigotry? Using the word bigotry where bigotry doesn't exist cheapens the word. What word will you use when bigotry does exist? Choose your words properly.

By the way, roofs only last 10-15 years. Shingles labeled "30yr" are not supposed to last 30 years - it's just a rating system that shingle manufactures use... Are you saying that when the roof is old, the house old and shot?

Re:No, bigot, Japanese houses suck.

[ScrewMaster]

You are assuming BIGGER is better.

It is. Just ask any man. Women often feel differently however.

3 RDM URL's == Epic FAIL

[Anonymous Coward]

3 Daniel Dilger URL's in one subby == EPIC FAIL.

DIY house

[Anonymous Coward]

often have fireplaces, features which Japanese houses tend to lack

A giant open flame in a place where earthquakes occur. Great idea.

In Japan houses are built to last 30 years, at most, and have generally no resale value. They are more consumer items, like cars are in the USA.

Is that such a bad thing? Notwithstanding the whole "green" thing (energy to tear down and build-up, etc.), I wouldn't mind having a place to myself that was built to my own specifications.

From an American that's been in Japan for over a decade (and is married with two kids):

... houses are generally built from scratch, starting with an architect who will create a design based on your specifications and budget. Of course, houses in Japan don't go up in value like they (historically) do in the U.S. and Europe [...] so when you build a home you're building just for yourself and your family. Which is actually kind of nice, since your house becomes a place to live in and enjoy, rather than a potential source of stress.

As for central heat, historically that's because Japan is very prone to earthquakes, and until recently most sources of heating were some kind of flammable substance: not something you want in great quantities laying around during an earthquake. Electric heaters don't have this problem of course.

Personally, while I may not want a Japanese-built house, I do like some of the aesthetics. The Modernism of Le Corbusier is way to austere for me, but things like Japanese gardens are simple and harmonious without being plain. I wouldn't mind elements of that in my own place.

In general I would say you (and the GP) are drawing a black/white line, where the design in each country has pros and cons (like any other engineering/design decision).

see what's involved into bringing goods..

[da5idnetlimit.com]

French cheese ? (roquefort) 300% import tax.
Goose liver ? (foie gras) 300% tax.

Reason ? France doesn't want to import "hormon treated" veal meet. (ever had a piece of veal that lost 50% of it's size when cooked ? => doped veal grow much much faster...)

Importing french wine ? 50 different laws (one per state), named importers that all ask for exclusivity and try to dictate their prices because, well, they are the only ones you can pass through to import wine...

Opening a good french restaurant in the US with imported french delicacies ? bliss...

too successful

[NicknamesAreStupid]

So it is obvious, the reason that the iPhone is not selling in Japan is because the LOVE it too much. The need of a computer, the lo-res camera, and complete lack of video recording (and 2 camera video phone, which has been common there) are just too adorable to buy. I just get goosebumps thinking about it. Of course, Microsoft has jumped on the "more Apple than Apple" bandwagon, as usual, and will offer a Windows Mobile 666 with a green monochrome screen that is 8-bit ASCII only VT100-style, and it will weigh 30 pounds. Japan will have as orgasm over that and worship it so much that they will be banned from the country.

Simple...

[WiseWeasel]

There's no easy-to-use/access app store for WinMo, with considerable technical skill required to find and install software, and so much less software gets sold, forcing developers to charge more per unit to make up for this.

Wired's Apple opinions are worthless

[Anonymous Coward]

Wired lying about or twisting info on Apple and Apple products? Again? Gee, who's surprised?

They love iPhones here in Japan!

[Oyume]

I live in Japan and have been here for just over 9 years. And just about everyone I know (Japanese and foreigners alike) either have an iPhone or are dying to get one. Yours truly included.

Re:They love iPhones here in Japan!

[Requiem18th]

Bullshit, the standard Japanese user would want something smaller, or a camera and TV tuner at *least*, either you are completely making shit up or you limit your circle of friends to Apple zealots only.

That is it

[tjstork]

Well, the postwar reconstruction is actually the reason for Japanese housing being what it is. They built the country back up in a hurry as while the UK got some bombing damage from the Germans, it was nothing like the incendiary missions run by, well, the USA and towards the end, we thank you, with help from our British allies. So, they had a lot of homeless people and had to rebuild in a hurry. From there, the need to keep a lot of people employed sorta fed into the construction economy, and now that construction industry has quite a bit of political pull.

So, as much as I soured on free trade, now I'm starting to think, there's a huge opportunity to export houses to Japan. It's almost like their construction industry has some of the culture that our automotive industry has had. I bet there's a way to sell houses to those people. I mean, come on, everyone used to say in Detroit that the Japanese had no shot because Americans liked to have to buy new cars every three years and enjoyed working on them. I'd be willing to bet that central heat and central air would sell if you could control the room. But you couldn't just go in all US made. You would have to leverage the perceived longevity of US housing design but in a country that takes pride in its electronics and tools, you'd have to find a Japanese partner(s) to work with. I mean, even if you could crate it up in the USA, you'd have to say that it works with some Sony home control system, would be hauled to the site by a special Toyota tractor, and was already set to go with NTT phone hookups. You could make a mint, if you could go in gracefully, I think.

So yeah, I've argued myself into a circle. You probably could export to Japan, but you'd have to do it with houses. But, its not that crazy. I mean, the Japanese are beating Detroit at exporting cars to the USA and they have 0 natural anything to make steel with, and the USA is sitting on top of a mountain of iron ore and coal to make steel with.

Re:That is it

[Anonymous Coward]

Well said. A good argument usually winds up circular in the end.

Re:That is it

[Terminology Man]

There is a company in the UK that is doing just that, exporting solid oak framed houses to Japan (and other countries) in kit form. Check it out: http://www.oakframedbuildings.co.uk/ Don't know if they are any good.

Some proof...

[tjstork]

Wikipedia

"Foreigners in Japan renting apartments on their own often face discrimination from real estate agents or landlords who refuse to rent to foreigners. Some agents will explain to foreigners directly that it is difficult to rent to them. Finding a guarantor is also difficult for many foreigners."

IF that's not a cultural predisposition to imported goods, then what is?

so Wired hasn't changed since Gore hit piece

[Uberbah]

You know, the one that started the "Invented the Internet" urban legend for wingnuts.

Let's have some history.

[tjstork]

Have you ever been to Japan?!?!?! There are structures there thousands of years old! You REALLY need to stop typing now.

I was thinking that not too many houses survived the fire bombings. All told, 67 of the most populated Japanese cities were firebombed by the United States during World War II. This process basically involved two passes of bombing. First you dropped incendiaries into residential areas to start massive fires due to the use of really dry wood and paper construction. Then, you used other munitions to kill all the firefighters and responders. Basically the fires would spread out of control, and thousands of people would be killed. In fact, as much as everyone complains about the atomic bombs, the atomic bombs did not kill or destroy as much as the fire bombings did. For various reasons, both the Japanese and Americans are believe to have underestimated the casualties caused by firebombing, but the firebombing of Tokyo alone easily killed 100,000 people, wounded 1,000,000, and destroyed at least 250,000 homes.

It's easy for us in the west to ignore this, particularly in America, and I'm not saying that to say I regret what the United States did, because I don't.

But it is to say that an awful lot of Japan was destroyed and, after the war, the Japanese had to come up with homes for a lot of people and in a hurry, and in doing so enshrined some building practices that persist to this day.

RE: Reverse Racism ...

[Anonymous Coward]

PS 3 "IS" Nihon, Jappon, and the clumsy Gaigan minds of Europe and America can not, by birth, understand!

Any Nihon, Jappon, expert specilizt, is 20 time valuable compaired to dirty monkey brained European and American.

Spirt of Jappon WILL conqure dirty European and American Slavers.

Sig Jappon, Sig Jappon, Sig Jappon

Apples and oranges

[dmizer]

IF that's not a cultural predisposition to imported goods, then what is?

I can't believe you got modded up for this. You're putting humans on the same value level as a purchasable object? Please. Wanting, or not wanting our stuff has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they want or don't want us personally.

I'm a recovering academic.

[mosb1000]

Your "economic programme" and "school of politico-philosophical thought" are actually every bit as relevant/irrelevant at the iPhone. You think they're special because they're all scholarly, but they don't really accomplish anything more than the iPhone does. At least the things accomplished by the iPhone can be stated in concrete terms without a bunch of hand-waving and excuse-making.

I apologize if this is a bit over-the-top. I'm a recovering academic.

You can regret doing something bad....

[jotaeleemeese]

"It's easy for us in the west to ignore this, particularly in America, and I'm not saying that to say I regret what the United States did, because I don't." ... even if it was the only viable option.

I would regret to kill somebody, even if it was in self defence.

Re:You can regret doing something bad....

[tjstork]

I would regret to kill somebody, even if it was in self defence.

You can mourn what you had to do, but not regret it. Regret it implies that you think it was a mistake to do it. The Japanese really should have surrendered after the Marianas campaign, would have saved many lives on both sides. But the peace feelers they sent out via Russia argued for a preservation of their conquered territory and keeping their political structure in place. A peace at that time would have left Japan in control of China and vast sections of the Pacific. Unacceptable.

The one thing that I do believe was foolish on the Allied part was the 5-5-2 agreement at the Washington Naval Treaty. This utterly humiliated Japan, who at that time was actually an ally of the British, and there was absolutely no need to do that.

Hate? Maybe not. Love? Unlikely.

[jotaeleemeese]

Lets look at this:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/july-sales-figures-show-iphone-fourth-in-japan-458742

So Apple is selling 4% of the overall market.

That is 4 out of 100 Japanese people buying a phone, chose to buy an Apple phone. Hardly earth shattering success if you ask me.

Keeping in mind Apple exclusivity deals, we can be pretty certain about these numbers, keeping in mind that Apple partnered with the 3rd biggest company in Japan, who holds around 15% of the market at most, not all of them are iPods of course.

At this point, after looking at the hard facts, I can almost see the replies using the characteristic market speak Apple fans are so fond of ( you know, "paradigm shifting phone", "intuitive", "elegant", etc, etc, etc, all soft words devised to remove our attention from the real issues and faults of the gadget, in spite of the numbers which are telling us the iPhone is nothing but an expensive niche product which most people, sensibly, chose to steer clear from)

Re:Hate? Maybe not. Love? Unlikely.

[meringuoid]

That is 4 out of 100 Japanese people buying a phone, chose to buy an Apple phone. Hardly earth shattering success if you ask me.

Not bad for a high-cost, high-end, new entrant to the market, though.

I don't know what the Japanese phone market looks like, but in the UK mainstream it's pretty much a straight fight between Sony Ericsson and Nokia. The mass market expects to get the phone free in exchange for signing up for a 12 or 18 month service contract at a reasonable monthly fee. That's where you get big sales figures. Sony and Nokia provide these. The iPhone is pitched at people who are willing to pay extra for the Jesus Phone: unless you sign up for a truly astronomical tariff, the iPhone has a fee up front. Who'll go for that? A small minority, that's who.

I don't think the iPhone was intended for the mainstream. It's competing with things like the Nokia N95 - phones on steroids jammed with nerd toys. That's a niche market. I look at phones like that and I think sure, that would be cool to have - but then I look at the price tag and think maybe not, and then I look at the enormous size of the screen and picture it cracked in my pocket, and then I look at the battery life... And then I go back to the other shelf and pick up the latest Ericsson phone and buy that instead. They provide what I want - good phone functions, good camera, passable internet functionality (enough to get the football scores and web mail), long battery life, physical durability - and they provide it cheap.

This isn't like the iPod, where mp3 players were a niche market that the iPod could make mainstream. The iPhone is trying to break into a market that is already mainstream and already saturated, a market characterised by vicious, cut-throat competition. That the iPhone has made it to 4% in Japan... well, I'm damn impressed by that.

Objects and people and racism

[tjstork]

. You're putting humans on the same value level as a purchasable object?

A purchasable object is the embodiment of someone else's culture and an acceptance of them. This is why, in the USA, we celebrate the breakthrough of Jackie Robinson in baseball, or the early work of musicians such as Duke Ellington. Those people, making sport and entertainment products, lead the way for integration of black american into society and ultimately laid the groundwork for civil rights. You can't like a product without having some measure of fondness for the people that made that product. One area where free trade has been successful is in integration of cultures in countries that do import.

It's why, in the USA, anyone with any sort of brain views hostility towards immigrants with a skeptical eye. Indeed, there are some who have argued and on this board that suppression of free trade is a form of racism.

I live in Japan and I don't have an iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

But it is not because I don't want one, it is because it is expensive, the cheapest here in Nakatsu it cost over $400USDs, I really like to know where are they giving them away... as the story says.

Re:No, the irrational claim is to be pro-free trad

[taskiss]

I don't have a date, and I don't have a date when the US will put a man on Mars, either, but the inability to forecast isn't cause by any cultural bias. The reason you were wrong is simple - you didn't provide evidence to support your claim, and in fact you changed the goal posts and switched the argument from cultural bias to economic trade barriers.

Also, I'm not challenging the assertion of cultural bias, I'm pointing out that as the one who made the assertion, the monkey is on your back to provide validation when challenged.

When you make a case and you're called on it, you have to make that case. The monkey's on your back, not the other way 'round. You did nothing other than try to shift the burden to someone else.

Shipped and Sold are different

[marcybots]

Whoever wrote the anti-wired article is obviously someone with a vested interest IN the Iphone. You notice they take issue with how the Wired article claims only 200,000 Iphones were sold in Japan, but they claim 300,000 400,000 were shipped. Shipped and sold are different as anyone can tell you, its comparing apples and oranges. This person is intellectually dishonest. As for the original wired article, I have no idea about its veracity, but I know this person is dishonest.

It's not about free trade

[Swift2001]

It's about some guy who had an obvious anti-Apple agenda. Don't like Apple products? It's a free country. But this article was twisted unfairly to make the facts fit the conclusion. That's unacceptable to tech journalism, if it actually exists. If there's a story about the iPhone's acceptance or lack of acceptance in Japan, then tell us the facts.
It's getting so bad that even Wired is as useless as Fox or CNN to the provision of information. Enough yellow journalism, whether its source is the Hearst papers of yore or the hip Wired. Stop throwing sand in our eyes, you bastards.

AppleInsider

[Daver555]

Yeah. Like AppleInsider was unbiased. I own an iPhone and I agree with the Wired article.

Flip Phones vs. Candy Bar

[Anonymous Coward]

Just back from Tokyo, there were iPod's everywhere and a lot of Apple laptops in the cafes. What I really noticed, though, was how many flip phones there were. And how few candy bars, and even less iPhones.

I think this boils down to the simple fact that Japanese like flip phones, and have ever since the first NEC hit product (NTT Docomo N500?) in '97?

--yarri

Re:boring to impress

[Anonymous Coward]

today's economic recession was caused by people boring money they didn't have to try to impress

fascinating. no wonder i can't get money to jump into my pockets, i'm boring and unimpressive.