Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Shoots Own Foot In Iceland
David Gerard writes "The Microsoft Certified Partner model is: an MCP buys contracts from Microsoft and sells them to businesses as a three-year timed contract, payable in annual installments. Iceland's economy has collapsed, so 1500 businesses have gone bankrupt and aren't paying the fees any more. But Microsoft has told the MCPs: 'Our deal was with you, not them. Pay up.' The MCPs that don't go bankrupt in turn are moving headlong to Free Software, taking most of the country with them. (Warning: link contains strong language and vivid imagery.)"
and BSOD you!
I bet they're proud of that Microsoft partner banner at reception...
Task Mangler
What would Bjork do?
Article has been online for 5 minutes and the site is already down - gotta be a record!
AltSlashdot. Because f'k the beta
Oh god, a 500 error! MY EYES! THEY BURN!
Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?
You know what, I'm not even going to bother clicking on a link composed of obscenities, even if it is about Microsoft making another PR blunder.
I'd like some anti-Microsoft news that at least appears reputable, and not overly sensationalized "ZOMG Balmer blew up M$ eats babies" crap like the stuff I've seen here for the past few weeks.
Give me something to read, please, not something designed to assimilate me into another angry mob.
"Hey, I only joined the military for the free college tuition. I never said anything about shooting people!"
These MCP's were all happy to sign up, resell MS's products and take their cut for doing almost nothing. Now they're not selling and they don't want to pay their bill? Puh-lese. The cheese section is apparently in Iceland, along with the whine.
Strong language, indeed! I don't see any imagery, however...
Wow. Another instant SlashDoting.
Dose anyone have a cache of the story?
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Business People tend to remember the company that pushed them into bankruptcy. They don't forgive and forget easily.
I can't see everyone "just switching" to Linux, but this could create much motivation to try. Survival in business is a strategic imperative. If someone threatens that survival, then business people tend to connect the dots, and adapt accordingly.
I guess when the economy is down, the slashdot crowd gets fired up! Otherwise why do I get this message?
Internal Server Error
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Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@smari.yaxic.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
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Ewww... i tought that i was prepared for any rudeness and strong language, but this? Slashdot should start putting stronger warnings in the articles, things like this could have adverse effects for the rest of your life.
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:X9gxL2vZ5soJ:smari.yaxic.org/blag/2009/03/06/microsoft-skull-fucks-icelands-economy-contracts-syphilis/+http://smari.yaxic.org/blag/2009/03/06/microsoft-skull-fucks-icelands-economy-contracts-syphilis/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
xkcd is everywhere...
"The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request."
Maybe Microsoft revoked their license on the webserver? Possible?
LOL.
Ah well, it seems somebody over there saw this article and decided to pull it to save grace.
Link to Google Cache of article Full text available in replies
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
I think it's rather impressive that Microsoft hasn't run out of feet to shoot. Nor bullets, apparently. Then again, they may have amassed an ample supply of peg-legs in their fight against piracy.
From TFA: "So with the Navision thing going on the situation normally pans out like this: Company/institute X switches to Free Software nominally, installing Ubuntu and OpenOffice.org on all computers, except those of the top management who need to have access to Microsoft Navision Financials. The middle management then complains that theyâ(TM)re important enough to have Microsoft Office and that they feel devalued as employees for being forced to use the free, open alternative that doesnâ(TM)t suck. Eventually the middle management gets their way, and then the lowest employees start heaving the same sighs. Before you know it Company/institute Xâ(TM)s Free Software policy is a piece of paper rotting in a drawer somewhere."
Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. Fire the entrenched middle managers. If they don't want to liberate their departments from this morass, save their countrymen a pile of kronas, and just generally improve their situation, well...who needs 'em?
Time for them to head to the conference room where Bob Slydell and Dom Porterwood are waiting.
Here's my translation for ya:
[rumor] Microsoft [rumor] Economic Crisis [rumor] I can't confirm this but [rumor]. Open Office is better than Microsoft Office. [rumor] [bad logic] [rumor] [rumor] Pitiful prediction.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Microsoft has made a business out of selling licenses to run software that can be copied at no marginal cost, this everybody knows. Essentially, they manufacture software, but their product isnt computer code, its legal code. Contracts.
They make deals with companies, the most common type being three year non-exclusive non-transferable usage rights contracts for the Microsoft Windows operating system and the Microsoft Office software package. A severe amount of licenses for Microsoft Dynamics NAV (formerly Navision Financials, and I shall refer to it as Navision) are sold as well.
The companies and institutions that buy these generally dont buy these directly through Microsoft. Instead, they sell contracts in bulk to Microsoft Certified Partners (MCPs), which are local companies that lobby the software, generally at a loss to themselves, as they know that Microsofts lock-in is powerful enough that they can only get service contracts from the company if they offer a substantial discount on the Microsoft products.
Now, the licensing term is three years, but the licensing fee is made in the form of annual payments. Here is where the fun begins.
Now, say an economy collapses. Say some fifteen hundred companies in your local economy go bankrupt. Now, say that Microsoft comes to collect its annual fee from the MCPs. The MCPs say, of course, âoewait, the company that we sold this license to has gone bankrupt, we shouldnt have to pay.â
âoeAha!â says the suit from Redmond. âoeYou made a contract with us, and another with them. Their inability to uphold their end of the contract does not invalidate your commitment to us.â
This is what Ive heard from pals in the industry. Pals whore being screwed over right now. In short, the MCPs have to pay the licensing fees for the bankrupted companies.
The sheer shock of having to do so is starting to hit the Icelandic economy, hard. Already battered by the collapse of almost all privately held financial institutions and the subsequent bust of nearly fifteen hundred companies, Icelands MCPs are next.
The devil here is in the details. Microsoft was just collecting what was due, forcing an issue that, for most places would be perfectly reasonable to do. Well, no. But it could be argued. Hey, this is about revenue.
But the backlash effect has been astounding. Several of Icelands largest MCPs are now fighting for survival in a sea already at significant turmoil due to the economic depression. Shit had already hit the fan, but now theyre being skull-fucked by Microsoft to boot.
And what would you do? Well. My sources tell me a lot is afoot. Several MCPs are bailing out, switching over to Free Software and restructuring their business model. Keep the revenue inside Iceland, sell better technical services for less money and yet double their revenue. âoeWhy didnt we do this earlier?â
Why indeed. With Microsofts stranglehold on the economy, a long series of lock-ins has made life difficult for the dozens of people involved in trying to push free software in Iceland. With the government alone spending in the vicinity of 1 billion Icelandic kronas annually on Microsofts wares â" a number not even taken together separately in the accounting books, as it is all written up as âoemiscellaneous running costsâ â" itd be a really smart move to switch, if only they could.
The easiest switch would be to go to OpenOffice.org from Microsoft Office. This switch is easy because not only is OpenOffice.org superior software in every respect, its also feature-compatible with Microsoft Office, supports reading and writing of Microsofts file formats â" even the ones that Microsoft Office itself no longer supports â" and is free to boot, both free as in freedom and free as in price. The only important difference is that OpenOffice.org doesnt support all of Microsoft Offices weird macros, and it doesnt come with a drop-in replacement for Microsoft Access, the only database software
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
I'd stay out of the financial newsgroups for the next year or so.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
"Oh, and very inflammatory article. Seems more of a manifesto/hack job than a reporting piece."
Wait, is he thinking that an article entitled "Microsoft skullfucks Icelands economy" might be a mainstream piece of professional journalism?
Just because I hope to get modded up for a post containing the phrase 'skull fucking':
Microsoft Skull-fucks Iceland's Economy, Contracts Syphilis
Microsoft has made a business out of selling licenses to run software that can be copied at no marginal cost, this everybody knows. Essentially, they manufacture software, but their product isn't computer code, it's legal code. Contracts.
They make deals with companies, the most common type being three year non-exclusive non-transferable usage rights contracts for the Microsoft Windows operating system and the Microsoft Office software package. A severe amount of licenses for Microsoft Dynamics NAV (formerly Navision Financials, and I shall refer to it as Navision) are sold as well.
The companies and institutions that buy these generally don't buy these directly through Microsoft. Instead, they sell contracts in bulk to Microsoft Certified Partners (MCP's), which are local companies that lobby the software, generally at a loss to themselves, as they know that Microsoft's lock-in is powerful enough that they can only get service contracts from the company if they offer a substantial discount on the Microsoft products.
Now, the licensing term is three years, but the licensing fee is made in the form of annual payments. Here is where the fun begins.
Now, say an economy collapses. Say some fifteen hundred companies in your local economy go bankrupt. Now, say that Microsoft comes to collect its annual fee from the MCP's. The MCP's say, of course, âoewait, the company that we sold this license to has gone bankrupt, we shouldn't have to pay.â
âoeAha!â says the suit from Redmond. âoeYou made a contract with us, and another with them. Their inability to uphold their end of the contract does not invalidate your commitment to us.â
This is what I've heard from pals in the industry. Pals who're being screwed over right now. In short, the MCP's have to pay the licensing fees for the bankrupted companies.
The sheer shock of having to do so is starting to hit the Icelandic economy, hard. Already battered by the collapse of almost all privately held financial institutions and the subsequent bust of nearly fifteen hundred companies, Iceland's MCP's are next.
The devil here is in the details. Microsoft was just collecting what was due, forcing an issue that, for most places would be perfectly reasonable to do. Well, no. But it could be argued. Hey, this is about revenue.
But the backlash effect has been astounding. Several of Iceland's largest MCP's are now fighting for survival in a sea already at significant turmoil due to the economic depression. Shit had already hit the fan, but now they're being skull-fucked by Microsoft to boot.
And what would you do? Well. My sources tell me a lot is afoot. Several MCP's are bailing out, switching over to Free Software and restructuring their business model. Keep the revenue inside Iceland, sell better technical services for less money and yet double their revenue. âoeWhy didn't we do this earlier?â
Why indeed. With Microsoft's stranglehold on the economy, a long series of lock-ins has made life difficult for the dozens of people involved in trying to push free software in Iceland. With the government alone spending in the vicinity of 1 billion Icelandic kronas annually on Microsoft's wares â" a number not even taken together separately in the accounting books, as it is all written up as âoemiscellaneous running costsâ â" it'd be a really smart move to switch, if only they could.
The easiest switch would be to go to OpenOffice.org from Microsoft Office. This switch is easy because not only is OpenOffice.org superior software in every respect, it's also feature-compatible with Microsoft Office, supports reading and writing of Microsoft's file formats â" even the ones that Microsoft Office itself no longer supports â" and is free to boot, both free as in freedom and free as in price. The only imp
My pics.
Oh god, a 500 error! MY EYES! THEY BURN!
Here you go, ya' big baby!
Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
We'll shoot this foot
What?
What happened in Iceland seems to be a general liability for Microsoft. It strikes me that almost all of Microsoft's products, whether you believe they're a net good thing or net bad thing for the IT industry and other sectors, have two things in common: 1) they cost money; and 2) they're optional in the sense that there are free alternatives that are at least usable, if not superior.
Faced with an economic downturn that's more or less worldwide in scope, and likely several years in duration, does anyone see any possible way MSFT's revenues can be maintained at current levels? Organizations looking to lower their costs will eventually notice the money hose going to Redmond, and wonder if it can be turned down or disconnected altogether. In almost all cases the answer to that question is "Yes."
It seems that one way to take advantage of a bear market like this one is to identify large-scale players with vulnerable bottom lines and short-sell them. Thoughts?
Oh god, a 500 error! MY EYES! THEY BURN!
Are you kidding? This is Slashdot, a 500 error practically constitutes foreplay. Strong language indeed! :-)
Insert witty comment here
Hey MS are a business. If you do not like their product or business practice then go elsewhere.
All businesses play hardball - that is a fact of life. There is some give and some take. deal with it.
(And yes MS do give - just because it is not what you like or as much as you like doesn't make it untrue.)
...looking for free alternatives to overpriced stuff. News at 11.
Nothing new really. We know Microsoft is going to die sooner or later. They've had their run in the industry but just like the RIAA their current models don't work well anymore in the current economies so they'll either adapt or die kicking and screaming in the courtroom. They chose the latter (just like the RIAA) because it seems to be the easiest way out (short term goals). The other way requires retooling and reshaping a lot of company structure, eliminating unnecessary management.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
(Warning: link contains strong language and vivid imagery.)
Although, I'm not sure it'll work...
SIGLOST && SIGUNUSED && SIGQUIT
Did anyone else read that as Master Control Program?
The MCPs that don't go bankrupt in turn are moving headlong to Free Software
Software resellers are moving headlong to Free Software? What is their business model supposed to be?
I'm going to assume this line is trying to say "The MCPs that don't go bankrupt in turn are going to bankrupt themselves for the Free Software cause, for no particular reason".
Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
OpenOffice.org from Microsoft Office. This switch is easy because not only is OpenOffice.org superior software in every respect, itâ(TM)s also feature-compatible with Microsoft Office
Hm. no Can't agree with Open Office being superior. At the least a significant amount of re-learning is require. I know every time I use it I find it a frustrating experience.
And no if Word is the baseline then OO Writer is not feature complete. Once I learnt to use it the outline view in Word was the killer feature, which made editing large documents doable. Without outline view I could not imagine working on documents of a comparable size.
As for spreadsheets their are two keybindings I need. Insert current data and insert current time. Apparently their are third party macros for this. But tts something that's never available without additional effort when I try to use calc.
So no OpenOffice is not a simple drop-in replacement for Microsoft Office. Then Again if it where a drop-in replacement then Microsoft would undoubtedly be suing.
read my mind at http://the-willows.blogspot.com/
Ahh, yes. An article entitled "Microsoft Skull-fucks Iceland's Economy, Contracts Syphilis". That's real classy. It's the kind of mature and dignified attitude I've come to expect from the FOSS/Linux community at large.
"When you see a unixer brainwashed beyond saving, kick him out of the door." - Xah Lee
I think Open Source Software is great, I recommend them to any client that can safely be moved away from Windows. Most homes and business, only need an office suite (OpenOffice.org), a Web browser (Firefox) and just few other applications, which have a parallel in the Open Source world.
To keep them comfortable, during this transition, I usually install the Linux along the Windows partition, so they have access to both. Most have decided to stay with Linux!!!
I do strongly encourage them to support the said OSS, however much they can. It's the ethical thing to do.
Good Luck...
Still viewable via ye olde Coral Cache: http://smari.yaxic.org.nyud.net/blag/2009/03/06/microsoft-skull-fucks-icelands-economy-contracts-syphilis/
The MCPs that don't go bankrupt in turn are moving headlong to Free Software, taking most of the country with them
and teh websight with them
You have to keep a sense of scale. Iceland is a very small 'country'. It really was just a second rate tax haven and compares unfavourably with many Caribbean islands - especially nowadays. So in the greater scheme of things it is just a blip on a old TV screen.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Microsoft has been trying to commit suicide for 20 year, and people are just now realizing it. How many company's to they have to kill, how many people do they have to piss off before people start looking elsewhere. A lot!
The above is not worth reading.
This switch is easy because not only is OpenOffice.org superior software in every respect, it's also feature-compatible with Microsoft Office, supports reading and writing of Microsoft's file formats Ã" even the ones that Microsoft Office itself no longer supports Ã" and is free to boot, both free as in freedom and free as in price.
To be fair, I used to think sort of the same thing - why use MS Office when OpenOffice is there and does most of that stuff?
Then I got MS Office at work - mostly to combat problems we had with compatibility with our clients sending us 'real' .doc files. OpenOffice would spit out something that didn't maintain the exact formatting, which pissed everyone off.
But the main thing for me is just the sheer awesomeness of the whole thing. I never used 2003 so didn't struggle at all with the new 'ribbon' thing, which I think is great. I find the whole Office package shits all over OpenOffice in terms of usability and performance.
I thought I'd get MS Office and only use it for stuff that had to be interoperable with our clients and use OOo for everything else - but I've switched to using MS Office for everything. Sorry, but it's better.
If you have to interoperate with anyone doing high-end Word stuff you might struggle to switch to OOo. But if you can make EVERYONE you deal with use it ALL at once and the formatting stuff isn't that big a deal - then sure, it'll work for you.
So let me get this straight; several MCPs in Iceland decided to dance with the devil, buying three-year software contracts from Microsoft for Office and some other applications. After purchasing said contracts directly from Microsoft, these MCP then turned around and sold the same contracts to other companies in Iceland, charging an annual fee to those companies while, I imagine, paying Microsoft on some type of installment plan. Now, when the economy tanks and the folks who paid last year aren't around this year when the bill comes due, these MCPs are surprised, shocked if you will, that Microsoft wants them to pay for the contracts they purchased directly from Microsoft? Truly, am I missing something here?
It doesn't take even a back-of-the-envelope calculation to see that, if you buy a three year contract from vender 'A' and sell it with an annual maintenance fee to customer 'B', you have in fact become a creditor for customer 'B'. It should therefore come as no surprise to these MCPs that, yes, Microsoft really does want them to pay for the contracts they purchased from Microsoft. I can't imagine anyone at Microsoft stuck a gun to their heads and said, "Sell Microsoft software contracts or die." If you dance with the devil, and willingly did business with Microsoft, than you'd better be prepared to pay for the software contracts you purchased from the company.
Perhaps I'm just not enough of a Microsoft-hater, but I fail to see the 'skull fucking' here. What I do see is an angry rant from, I assume, someone who's likely receiving calls from bill collectors in Redmond. I'm sorry that MCP thing didn't work out for you, and if you want to switch from plugging Microsoft products to promoting Open Source Software, than more power to you. But please don't ask me to overlook the poor business decision you made in becoming a de-facto creditor to your customers. If you don't like the way Microsoft does business in Iceland, you don't have to join their game. Take your marbles and go play in some other park with rules more suitable to your taste.
I feel quite badly for iceland, they are suffering under a significant economic downturn affected by just a few banker types. However, even if/when the entire country goes to Open Source, Microsoft won't even notice the 20k annual licences or so that go with them. Only 300k people live in Iceland. More people live within 10 miles of me, and just about everyone else reading this. They just don't matter in the global scheme of things.
--why?
values('reason', 'fairness', 'forethought');
Error: ORA-00984:column not allowed here
Help stamp out iliturcy.
They'll lie in it.
If some employees of their company go on to found a company that's not so foolish, they will have learned.
But the company that danced with the devil and doesn't want to pay? Why would you trust them now? Maybe tomorrow they'll decide the service contract you paid them for requires too much effort or cost to fulfill.
As we used to say back when I was in this game, a deal is a deal is a [expletive deleted] deal.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
For all the bad behavior on Microsoft's part, since when has it ever really hurt them significantly?
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
says it all.
Be Obscure Clearly
There are visual errors in time as well as in space.
402; 416; 410
But Microsoft has told the MCPs: 'Our deal was with you, not them. Pay up.'
I would think 10 kilos or so of kæstur hákarl would be a fair exchange for each of the MS contracts.
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
I know you're joking but it's not like Russian women are bad. It's that the ones, most of them, who advertise themselves in those bride ads are not worth a dime.
Most Russian women won't care you're from US-whatever-rich-country, things get worse if you're you're a beer-belly average US guy.
I wouldn't have high hopes with Icelandic women either, no matter how broken they are.
If you're slightly serious about such stuff, try going to a medium-small city in Mexico during your vacations. That people have a different mindset (though you'll find skunks too, like elsewhere). Unless you're really unattractive and/or a complete loser, I guess you may have a chance.
Certainly I'm no expert in Icelandic contract law, but frankly, why is this any different than any other form of reseller?
If I am a local grocer (the MCP) in a town, and I have just bought 10 tons of corn from the local farm (Microsoft) on agreement to pay for the corn over the next 3 years, but then suddenly all the area folks (other local businesses) cannot afford to buy corn from me anymore - what kind of nonsense suddenly absolves me of having to pay for the corn?
Sure, maybe Microsoft could be doing more negotiating on the contracts to help keep people in business - but guess what? They're a business too. Just because you don't like them doesn't make their contracts any less valid. Just because it's software and not a commodity doesn't make the contracts any less valid. If you take on the risk (the agreement to pay over 3 years, assuming you have revenue to pay for those 3 years), and your risk goes sour - you damned well better have to eat your sour grapes.
Incidentally, that's what is wrong with the bailouts in the US - the US goverment - ie, G W "Idiotboy" Bush and his Republican cronies told all the Wall Street CEOs - take on all the risk you want with other peoples' money, we got your back if it goes bad.
Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
Welcome to the world of the delusional hippie-geek.
Seriously, I know ./ sets a low bar for the reliability of content, but this is half masturbatory fantasy, half geek gossip column OSS fanboi wanking.
The minute an FPP is made of furry slash between Linus and Darl, I'm outta here!
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
(Warning: link contains strong language and vivid imagery.)
Excellent way to get people to RTFA :)
What a nut!
Phase 1: MCP's selling MS licenses at cost to get the service contracts with a country that went economically tits up. MS demands MCP's pay for the licenses they bought and resold. MCP's now have dick caught in wringer.
Phase 2: Nutter imagineers a future where NCP's and tits up country have no choice but to embrace Linux and Free Software thus bailing the country out with service contracts back in the pink. Microsoft dies in days.
Phase 3: Reality sets in.
Phase 4: MCP's open Ebay account for slightly used Icelandic XP+Office licenses. Pro versions... Cheap.
Phase 5: MCP's get kicked off Ebay for illegal sale of licenses.
Phase 6: MCP's setup Hacks, Cracks & Serials website. Give away keys. Make metric butt loads of coin hawking porn ads and Iceland's ex-secretary escort services.
Phase 7: MCP's use profits to import world class recreational drugs and hookers.
Phase 8: Icelands tourism industry explodes. Economy revives. Clothing optional.
Phase 9: Iceland invaded by geriatric hippies escaping the U.S. Clothing optional ordinance; rescinded. (Damn man, cover that wrinkled and blue shit up.)
Phase A: I forget. Didn't matter, just a hassle anyway. Where's Lois?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes
402 Payment Required
416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable
410 Gone
Huh, what does it mean??
Or have I just earned a huge whoosh?
And what does it mean by "practically constitutes foreplay"?
So lets say one of those MCP companies buys heaps of licenses and sells them to anyone who wants them for like 1 cent each, then goes bankrupt. Could Microsoft now demand payment from the people who bought them? Doesnt seem they could, as they state "Microsofts contract is with you not the companies you sold the licenses too..."
Who wants free MS licenses?
The funny thing about these posts is that they only evoke anti-racist emotional responses. Go for it, retarded trollers!
If only they had aimed for their head...
"Business bad? Fuck you, pay me.
Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me.
Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me.
Your country's economy imploded, all your clients went out of business, and your currency is worthless? Fuck you, pay me."
Airplane Photos, Airline News, Planespotting Guides
Microsoft made its money by shitty contracts with iron clad loopholes that fucked you over if you signed. If you didnt sign, you paid more. They used their strong arm tactics because there was no real alternatives at the time. Things are better, but still not quite there yet. And m$ did a good job at killing off anyone might compete.
Maybe now is a good time for people to start hitting up companies and explaining all these expensive microsoft contracts are hurting them.
"Oh, and very inflammatory article. Seems more of a manifesto/hack job than a reporting piece."
Wait, is he thinking that an article entitled "Microsoft skullfucks Icelands economy" might be a mainstream piece of professional journalism?
Why not? As opposed a piece that's just an expanded version of a press release from a company? Or some article with no fact checking and plenty of lies and made up facts? For example: Every article I've checked in one field, about people related to the air travel industry, was mostly garbage. The so called "journalists" don't care either, if you present them the facts, they never respond or rectify, and the magazines/newspapers will print the junk from those people, and the liars they quote, again and again. Examples here in NL are:
Simon Rozendaal: A pseudo journalist in the magazine Elsevier.
Benno Baksteen: A pilot and serial-liar who's often been interviewed in magazines, on TV etc.
Professional journalism? Don't make me laugh.
If you dice with the devil...
OO.o's "Base" is not even close to being an Access replacement, and a lot of small businesses run at least some mission-critical parts of the business on Access apps. They are important enough that they need to be kept in operation, but the business can't afford to rewrite them.
...Microsoft brilliantly continues to make money where the economic situation would normally result in zero sales. How exactly this is shooting your own foot is apparently left as an exercise for the reader.
Economics - there's a glut of MCP licences. Nobody is buying them. The resellers have the choice of selling them at a loss or keeping them. They'll make more money selling them at a loss than not at all, so they will.
The summary warned about strong language, but I didn't expect THIS. :P
---
Anyway, the real danger for Microsoft is that if Iceland can rescue its economy by moving to free software, other countries with less busted economies might decide they could get the same boost.
The population of Iceland is less than 350,000, barely as big as a medium-sized town. It's less than a single pixel on Microsoft's profit graph. I bet that not only do they not care about Icelandic MCPs going bust, but they don't care if the whole country - all 350,000 of them - does or does not use Microsoft software.
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
The problem with your analogy is that there are no farms in Iceland, it's a small volcanic artic desert with a population of less than 350,000 and the whole country has gone bust.
Everyone's assuming Microsoft is proactively deciding to pursue a particular course of action.
Frankly, I think quite the opposite. I think that the whole of Iceland accounts for less than a single pixel on Microsoft's accounting graph, and that Iceland is so small that Microsoft haven't noticed yet.
We're in a situation where a country's monopolistic software provider is several orders of magnitude larger than the country itself.
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
I've never heard of SmÃri before. Thank you, sir, this makes it all worth getting out of bed! :)
And you can still find a shield-chewing beserker...
I provide as much proof to that as you did for your statement.
Nil.
Iceland might well become the first 100% open source country! Totally free of Microsoft! I am an systems administrator, and our IT partner has recently invited us to a grand lunch where all sorts of Open Source solutions will be presented. This has never happend before, they used to promote Microsoft software. Yay!
Dealing with Microsoft is like being a pig.
They'll feed you and make you fat in the good times, but they'll have no qualms about cutting your neck open, draining your blood, gutting you, cutting you up into bits and then cooking you.
This has always been the number one rule of dealing with Microsoft - as a business or individual. Make sure you have a back door on your pig sty.
I'm going postal if one more person uses an apostrophe to pluralise "MCP"
It's "MCPs", not "MCP's", unless of course you are using the term MCP in a possessive manner, which isn't the case 9 times out of 10 in the article & comments
FFS!
'Software resellers are moving headlong to Free Software? What is their business model supposed to be?'
'The open source business model relies on shifting the commercial value away from the actual products and generating revenue from the 'Product Halo,' or ancillary services like systems integration, support, tutorials and documentation.)'
'Open Source as a Business Approach'
Just say "414" and waggle your eyebrows suggestively ...
Jorge
Assuming that is the same 'David Gerard', did you have to post links to those sites. I'm feeling very disturbed here .. :o
davecb5620@gmail.com
Today's kdawson Gem is brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.
Warning: link contains strong language and vivid imagery
This is the internet, we'd be surprised if a blog post DIDN'T comtain strong language and vivid imagery (especially when it's a MS bash-fest) !
But do we really need to be WARNED about it ? What's next, warning people that webpages may contain flahing banner ads that may cause seizures ?
Those poor, poor, pegless pirates...
As if it was not enough that they lost their legs, now MS takes away their pegs as well?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
> You had to read 13 paragraphs of an article titled "Microsoft Skull-fucks Iceland's Economy, Contracts Syphilis" to decide it's not impartial?
Well, it sounded pretty NPOV to me until I learned that it was written by David Gerard ;-)
- I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property
Hi Dave, do you mind telling me if you are the maintainer of lemonparty.org and if so, do you think some people don't share your sense of humor.
davecb5620@gmail.com
I was more or less in agreement with the article until he got to this part: Microsoft can redeem themselves towards the Icelandic economy if and only if they immediately reduce the price of all of their products to zero, permanently.
I am not sure that would really do anything. It certainly doesn't make any sense for Microsoft. He starts off wanting a break for the MCPs and ends up wanting Microsoft to set the price of everything to zero.
The article is mostly about Office (I Love the quote about Access*). What do Exchange Server, SQL Server, Sharepoint, etc have to do with this?
*The only important difference is that OpenOffice.org doesnâ(TM)t support all of Microsoft Officeâ(TM)s weird macros, and it doesnâ(TM)t come with a drop-in replacement for Microsoft Access, the only database software on the planet thatâ(TM)s better at printing mail-merged stickers than it is at storing data.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Sounds like the foreplay was with a prostitute. Then she demanded payment. Then you offered her too little, and she left.
Just a guess.
I am no lover of Microsoft, but I fail to see how they are at fault here. If I went to the Chrysler dealership and leased a fleet of cars for my company, and then the company went belly up, I'd still owe for those cars. They wouldn't care that the company was gone; they'd want their money from whoever leased the cars. Or at the very least they'd want their cars back plus the contract breaking fees. It's hard to give software back...
788652 = 2 x 2 x 3 x 3 x 19 x 1153
It doesn't take even a back-of-the-envelope calculation to see that, if you buy a three year contract from vender 'A' and sell it with an annual maintenance fee to customer 'B', you have in fact become a creditor for customer 'B'. It should therefore come as no surprise to these MCPs that, yes, Microsoft really does want them to pay for the contracts they purchased from Microsoft. I can't imagine anyone at Microsoft stuck a gun to their heads and said, "Sell Microsoft software contracts or die." If you dance with the devil, and willingly did business with Microsoft, than you'd better be prepared to pay for the software contracts you purchased from the company.
You must have noticed the financial party we have been having for the last few years. Why should MCPs be any more sensible than the rest of us? Being sensible wasn't fashionable. The MPCs, like almost everybody else, have been busy buying into the mass delusion that boom lasts forever and recession is a thing of the past. When people are partying anybody being sensible isn't listened to and that usually doesn't change until the partygoers get a major reality check such as being arrested for drunk driving. In Iceland that reality check came in October 2008 in the rest of the world it will probably sink in more slowly.
Perhaps I'm just not enough of a Microsoft-hater, but I fail to see the 'skull fucking' here. What I do see is an angry rant from, I assume, someone who's likely receiving calls from bill collectors in Redmond. I'm sorry that MCP thing didn't work out for you, and if you want to switch from plugging Microsoft products to promoting Open Source Software, than more power to you. But please don't ask me to overlook the poor business decision you made in becoming a de-facto creditor to your customers. If you don't like the way Microsoft does business in Iceland, you don't have to join their game. Take your marbles and go play in some other park with rules more suitable to your taste.
What usually happens in a situation like this is that the distributor and the supplier reach an agreement where some of the debt is perhaps written off and the rest is paid back according to some sort of payment plan. The idea being that you as a manufacturer of a product are better off taking a hit which isn't good but results in the survivial of the network of distributors that you have built up over decades. If you don't do this the competition will swoop down and soak up your market share faster than you can say "negative EBITA". With a whole slew of IT people being unemployed you can rest assured that if Microsoft starts killing off MCPs, dozens of FOSS start-ups will pop up like mushrooms on a forest floor over the next few years to take their place and compete with Microsoft. These MCPs are companies with massive experience in selling MS products, servicing them and lobbying government into buying MS products instead of deploying FOSS. For Microsoft the party is over for the time being just like it is for their customers. Over the last few years Microsoft's corporate customers have become accustomed to burning through borrowed money as if it was firewood but over the foreseeable future that will change. Businesses will be lucky if they can get any credit at all and that, more than anything else, will make FOSS a more attractive option. I am not saying that FOSS will take over the European software market but Microsoft could lose some ground if they don't play their cards right.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
that MS is reading that posting, now that it is on /..
Most likely, they are contracting MCP's and backing off the money issue. I would also guess that they are trying to make certain that plenty of low costs software is running around there about now, that will remain low costs while OSS looks to gain a toehold. All this will be funded by American companies and American's.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
MCPs: That was never a condition of our agreement... ...No.
Darth Bill: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly?
MCPs:
Darth Bill: Good, because it would be unfortunate if I had to leave a Ballmer here
Watch how during this economy, people like M$ will become as greedy as they can be, because they know they need their money, and think this is the way to do it. Watch Linux in this economy grow in market share because of this same reason, and that no one wants to pay these outrageous prices. Watch as many more IT admins get used to the linux environment, and get passed the usual starting jitters of accepting linux as their work environment. Watch as linux becomes a more stable choice amongst home users as they see less expenditures on anti virus and anti spyware etc...
Watch and see our new linux overlords....sorry got carried away there for a minute....but you get my drift.
Gott at síggja Íslendingar velja frælsi enn einaferð !!!
Translation: Congratulations - Good to see the Icelandic People Choose Freedom once again!!!
The standard response to that is 417.
Maybe if she's 5'3!
Excepting that this is Microsoft, there's really nothing new to see here. A contract is a contract, no matter whether if it's with a 500 pound gorilla or with Guido from downtown (though the similarity is striking).
I had a relative that owned a wholesale food delivery service. Business was good, though the profit margin was small. During a small downturn in the economy back in the early 70s he had a couple restaurants declare bankruptcy on him. Unfortunately they were a couple of his biggest customers, and left him with pretty big bills. Well, guess what? He still had to pay his supplier, and that small fact finally drove him under (which would have happened anyway with the advent of Sysco, but that's a story for another day).
I guess the reasons we're complaining are that:
Granted, I like to get in on a little Microsoft-bashing myself, but I think that here they have them by rights. A little compassion would be nice, but perhaps they can appeal to the Gates Foundation for some of that.
Dt
Is this thing on? Hello?
I've often wondered if "kdawson" is like the /. equivalent of Allan Smithee (a pseudonym used by directors who want to take their names off a bad film). Maybe all the questionable stories and bad summaries just get the generic "kdawson" label to avoid embarrassing the real editors.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Real acid?
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Iceland has far worse problems. This is a very minor issue.
Iceland's entire economy has collapsed. At one point, food imports stopped and grocery stores were empty because the country was too broke to pay for food. All the major banks and most of the major businesses have gone bankrupt. Most of the "guest workers" have gone back to their home countries. A third of the population is considering emigrating to another country.
That some Microsoft resellers are in trouble is a minor issue. If they bought in dollars and sold in krona, without hedging against currency risk, they were currency speculators.
They should just pay Microsoft the original price in Icelandic Kronas. Right now (10 Mar 2009), the exchange rate is 225 Kr/D - so if the contract was for 10000 Krona, that's only like 4 dollars.
Yeah, slight brain hiccup - my approximation was off by a factor of ten, I meant to put 40 dollars, not 4 dollars. . . but, hey, what's an order of magnitude between friends?
Are they now looting cyberspace?
I've GOT to quit posting those journals, they're rotting you guys' brains. Sheesh!
Free Martian Whores!
I dont drink coffee. 418
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
If an MCP doesn't pay his renewal fees, doesn't he just stop being an MCP? As far as I can see the only point to being an MCP is that it's a piece of paper that's supposed to be impressive, and some companies have policies that will prohibit them from hiring people who have not obtained such certification. However, if one is not actually employed with such a company, why would Microsoft even care about the fee?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
That's some strong language if I ever saw it. It's forceful, effective, to the point. I like it.
It's strangely silent on both Microsoft and Iceland, though.
Huge "woosh" indeed...
Let me lay it out for ya (pun intended): Foreplay is something you would typically do before sex to get your partner in the mood. Except of course when you pay for sex (402). Regardless of what women say, they do care if you have a small penis (416) and if the chick was purely in it for the sex, then obviously she'd GTFO as soon as you are done (410), notice that I said YOU are done (refer back to 416).
There.
~Syberz
So people that live in the cold are not obligated to live up to the terms of a contract they agreed to. Legal contracts can be nullified because "hey, my customers aren't coming into my store any more..." Icelanders have no sense of responsibility to live up to their end of a bargain? "Hey times are hard - I ain't gonna pay you like I agreed" WOW - these Icelanders are such responsible, honorable, noble people. Remind me to never do business with someone who DECIDES it is no longer convenient for them to honor their agreements and legal obligations, goes public with childish wailing of how it is OK to back out of a deal when it doesn't go his way. My four year old son has been raised to take more responsibility than most adults.
"not only is OpenOffice.org superior software in every respect, itâ(TM)s also feature-compatible with Microsoft Office..."
Huh? Office is like the only MS application that is unarguably better than everything else!
A wholesaler buys from the manufactures and sells to the retailers. If the retailers go bankrupt, fail to pay, etc. the wholesaler is still responsible for paying the manufacturers.
Microsoft is the manufacturer.
The MCPs are the wholesalers.
The MCPs' clients are the retailers.
And, the same situation can be made to new car dealers who do self-financed leases.
The dealer buys the cars from the manufacturer and leases the cars to the customers. If the customers can't or don't pay, the dealer still owes the manufacturer money.
The only reason anyone is pissed off is because it is software and Microsoft is in the picture.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Excel, maybe.
Word is a pile of manure.
Unfortunately, anything that's Word-compatible is forced to be a pile of manure as well because they have to be compatible with Microsoft's appalling excuse for a file format and document structure.
So there's no non-fragrant alternatives to Word currently on the market, except maybe editing raw HTML in Emacs/vi/Wordstar/paper-tape-paste-and-scissors...
Well the article does seem like a rant over Microsoft but it does raise an interesting issue:
Does the Open Source business model create a better potential for profits than the closed sourced model?If anything the article does reveal the way that Microsoft's business model extracts cash from their partners operating capital. If the same businesses were Open Source shops not only would more capital stay within the business (due to an absence of licensing fees) and make them more profitable but a larger economy would reveal itself in terms of client businesses becoming empowered to drive the innovation within the software they are using.
It seems like a no-brainer that this would be a good thing for employment within the IT industry as all software houses would be positioned to employ people who are able to make contributions to the Open Sourced software base. In comparison, in the closed model innovation is forced to be from one place (like Microsoft) and come from a limited amount of minds. Clearly a lot of contractual artifices are constructed that generates animosity, but they are entitled to collect.
Even if the article has a little bit of truth it's pretty obvious why Microsoft generates a lot of hostility in the business community, it's all about Microsoft - it's not really about business.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. Microsoft has a long history of screwing over their partners. Usually it comes in the form of releasing a product to directly compete with any product a third party demonstrates as profitable. Can't the MCPs simply refuse to pay the fees and let Microsoft revoke the licenses?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Seriously, open office is not better than microsoft office. And this guy is nuts.
418 I'm a teapot!
Who gives a shit if the Icelanders are getting fucked by Microsoft? They deserve to be fucked. Those stupid greedy cocksuckers went out and completely fucked their economy by going into international banking, a field that they had no understanding of, in a huge way. Go read the Vanity Fair article Wall Street on the Tundra to see just how badly Iceland fucked itself with its greed and arrogance. These assholes make the fucks at Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns look smart, chaste and pure in comparison.
Yeah, I'm sure that Microsoft is quaking in its boots about the fact that a country that's smaller than Cleveland might adopt open source software. And why Microsoft should do jack shit for the Icelandic economy, which was fucked up by greedy, stupid and arrogant Icelanders on their own without any help from other countries, is beyond me. Smari McCarthy is even more of an arrogant fucking shit if he thinks that the collapse of Iceland's economy or his blog post are going to cost Microsoft any sleep, and the OP is a complete fucking tool if he believes in this shit either. McCarthy is like Steve Ballmer, except without any money nor with a track record of helping to build a huge software company. Smari McCarthy is just another Icelandic welfare shit who refuses to accept any responsibility for the state his country is in and wants someone else to pony up for Iceland's mistakes. Fuck him and fuck his useless country full of pogues.
You are of course right - whatever they contractually agreed to, they are still contractually bound to it.
They won't pay it though, because they can't. Microsoft needs to be flexible, or it will simply lose them. Comparing this to the bailouts is nonsense.. nobody told the MCP's "we've got your back", but now that this has happened, Microsoft has the option to press the issue and go to court, or work with their customers and try to salvage something.
The next move is Microsoft's, all other discussions of reasons and responsibilities are irrelevant.
what the fuck do you expect the deal is with them not the end user.
Squidguard blocks it by default. I bet a lot of corporate firewalls do.
(And that's not even because it says "Microsoft" in it!)
It would make more sense for the MCP's to sign a contract that guaranteed M$FT a percentage of the MCP's revenue stream. If they actually signed a contract that obligates them to M$FT no matter what, then they deserve to go out of business.
You can't make shit like that up. News indeed.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
This switch is easy because not only is OpenOffice.org superior software in every respect,
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
Haha how can you "run out of other peoples money"? :D
Or are you implying that socialists secretly eat money instead of trading them? I mean it doesn't take more than half a retarded rat brain to understand that this woman carried the other half.
xxxx....
...a stunned silence fell upon the hall.
All these comments, and not one TRON reference? Come on, what about the big bad MCP everybody's been talking about!
its content
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what would superintendent chalmers do ....
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