Slashdot Mirror
iPhone 3G Finally Available In US Contract-Free
Engadget is reporting that the iPhone 3G is finally available contract-free if you are willing to pay a much higher premium. Without a contract consumers are looking at $599 for an 8GB model and $699 for the 16GB. AT&T has the added restriction that you must be an existing AT&T customer, but Apple (retail stores only, sorry) will sell one to anyone willing to pay the premium. This change brings the model much closer to the prevailing European model where phones are sold as hardware and the plans are handled completely separately.
I love how marketers in North America continue to push the idea of "European". We've all seen the infomercials where they state "This is a best selling product in Europe..." or "In Europe this retails for $60 but..."
The way that it really works in Europe is that you pay for your phone over the course of your contract. For example, if you want a phone that is $600 and you are on a 3 year agreement, you pay $16.67 as a line item on your monthly bill to pay for the cost of the phone. That's much better than the hidden subsidy cost that most (if not all) North American carriers provide.
The contracts WERE in order to subsidize the cost of the phone... and the whole time I thought it was so they could lock me in and deliver shitty service. But seeing that the phone is $400 more without a contract pretty much proves what the cell phone companies have been saying all along.
I'm not sure, but there is almost always someone in the US who will sell you something where you make monthly payments. Of course, there usually is an unreasonable interest rate.
Well, yes, they *can* give them away in Japan. The problem is that giving them away is the only way to reduce inventory.
The iPhone only seems to be a hit here in the US. Everywhere else it has been a middling failure. Sure, the first rush to get the phones gave the impression of huge demand, but after the fanboys got their satisfaction, the numbers went right back down.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple gave up on the iPhone in the next couple years and instead focused on producing a better iPod touch.
And it will then "just work" with T-Mobile?
The UK must not be in Europe then.
In the UK the phone is "free" (or not) and then you get contracts that provide you with minutes/texts that do cover the cost of the phone, but it's still hidden.
Most phones are available without a contract if you want to pay that much, and you can get contracts without phones that are considerably cheaper. But it's not necessarily the most economical way of doing it.
No, the UK way is to have the phone covered by the contract but the contract only lasts a single year, after which the companies are obliged to SIM Unlock the phone for a nominal fee.
Or of course just to use pay as you go, if that's your thing.
Does it work with other carriers? They may sell it but they never said it will work with other carriers.
To me, this product from Samsung is better in every way compared to the latest iphone.
Do you still have to jail-break the phone yourself to use on another GSM carrier? If the phone is still locked into AT&T, then you aren't really gaining much here.
If (and this is a big if), on the other hand, it was a fully-unlocked iPhone, that could operate on any GSM carrier straight out of the box, then it might be worth the money. After all, what warranty obligations does Apple have for a hacked iPhone from the current lots? My guess would be none.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Doesn't sound like there is any advantage to doing it this way, since you still have to use it with AT&T. I'd rather amortize some of the phone cost over the contract.
I won my iPhone in a contest, and that's the only reason I still have it, I didn't pay for it. The thing is a hamstrung, nerfed piece of junk thanks to Apple's very restrictive development and usage policies. I want something I can tether, and something that I can run apps in the background with, something I can use as a USB drive, etc. etc. Not the right thing for a geek. It's fine for the secretary crowd. Also, the original one I had died, and they replaced it for free, good on apple for that. Had they charged I wouldn't have bothered. It's an intriguing technology demonstration, but not very useful.
Unfortunately, you pay "full" price, but the phone is still locked to AT&T. Dumb move in my mind, but maybe that is what we will end up seeing in another month.
well, that is not true AT ALL. I've been living in 4 different countries so far, with mobile phones bought in the 4 of them (spain, france, england and germany so far). Pretty much each country does different: in some of them the higher the forfait you agree to pay monthly, the cheaper the phone is, in others there is not such an agreement (well, allways a 5 euros or so), but I've NEVER seen paying money just for the line (and with that I mean money that does not come, or can not be spent in calls) The parent is shimply lying.
Its cheaper to buy the phone and break the contract if you want a "no contract" iPhone, as its only $400 or so that way.
Test your net with Netalyzr
T-Mobile and ATT use different frequencies for 3G. T-Mobile uses 1700/2100, ATT uses 850 and 1900. You can connectivity with EDGE but you won't be able to do 3G.
Anyway, just because it's contract free doesn't mean the phone is unlocked. It probably still has the ATT SIM card restriction in place.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Mostly. AT&T had to enhance their network slightly to implement features like Visual Voicemail. I expect most normal features of a cell phone would work. Some of the smart phone features may or may not work.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
In any case, I hope this will make all the people shut up about having to buy a contract. The iPhone is not the second coming, and if one does not want to have an ATT contract, then don't buy an iPhone. I mean, how lame does one have to be to need such a superficial level of validation to actually need a certain phone. But I am sure some people who considered themselves entitled to such expensive toys will complain about the price instead of buying a cheaper phone and finding self worth through other means.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Apple products "just work".
It isn't their fault that the MOs use different bands. Apple can't be held at fault for not supporting multiple bands.
I don't understand how they can charge so much for these when I can get an ipod touch for $200. iPod Touch + Blackberry curve is a winning combination. Better email/messaging experience on the BB and web browsing for emergencies. If I'm in a hotspot I use the itouch. Plus the touch is much sleeker and nicer than the iphone, with a more powerful processor.
I just don't get it. This is terribly overpriced, just for the addition of a cell radio?
Here in France, the G1 is sold 99â with contract, 400â without. I don't think we can really say that it is handled "separately".
Pretty much ditto here in Germany, although most contracts go for 24 months.
No, it does not work like that, at least not everywhere. There is one provider in Italy that does this, I know of no one in any other country.
You can either:
1. Buy a phone, then use the card you want; or
2. You get a subsidised, locked phone with your contract - the preferred way in Germany, where people end up paying much more for the iPhone than the americans, even.
In italy route 1 means that the iPhone is factory-unlocked, in Germany it will cost you more than in Italy and still netlocked to T-Mobile. I bought my iPhone in Italy and have used that several times in Italy, UK, north america and even Chile. With prepaid cards - sometimes even international sims (and will end up spending much less). In Germany and Italy I even have pay-as-you-go data plans that allow me to purchase 500Mb (italy) or 1Gb (germany) for about 10 euros.
Roberto
I love how marketers in North America continue to push the idea of "European". We've all seen the infomercials where they state "This is a best selling product in Europe..." or "In Europe this retails for $60 but..."
The way that it really works in Europe is that you pay for your phone over the course of your contract. For example, if you want a phone that is $600 and you are on a 3 year agreement, you pay $16.67 as a line item on your monthly bill to pay for the cost of the phone. That's much better than the hidden subsidy cost that most (if not all) North American carriers provide.
So the same as everywhere else then.
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
Yes, the cost is subsidized over the length of the contract but that's an excuse for a locked phone, not a reason.
If you sign a contract to pay $40 per month for 2 years and walk away with a free phone, it don't matter if you use it or not, or switch provider or not.....you STILL have to pay the $40 per month you agreed to, with all the usual debt collection / court hassles for defaulting.
If you switch carriers and set up a separate contract with a separate sim card you need to pay for that in ADDITION to the contract you signed. Not only that, but your $40 per month contract would include free minutes / SMS as part of the deal which you wouldn't use. The propaganda they use would have you believe that if you switched the sim card and started using another carrier the contract you signed would be void and they wouldn't get paid. This is bullshit, and they need to be called on it.
The only reasons I can think that you'd want to pay for both at the same time is if you either object morally to the contract company (in this case AT&T, or Apple's iPhone partner in the UK O2) or if you don't get a strong enough reception from them. You may have a long term deal through your employer, or even a number you've been using for a long time that all your contacts know....why should you be forced to change? Yes you can often bring your old number to the new phone but it's not the point.
Locking you in is inexcusable. An unlocked phone would mean they have to actually compete to keep you. The point here is that a locked phone to enforce at least the cost of the phone on a contract is a red herring. It's even more of an insult to have a pre-pay phone locked to a carrier.
Personally I live in an area where O2 is the only constant strong reception, so my carrier is dictated by signal strength. I refuse to buy any locked phone, even if it is locked to O2.
Mobile phones should ALL be unlocked, sold as phones on their own at full price, or with a contract with the provider of your choice, with a selection of deals / prices / free stuff on offer, with an optional cheaper rate per month by buying the phone at the start or a subsidy at a higher rate per month. This is not rocket science.
Come on apple we all know it's just a freaking HCSD card in there and they do not cost that much.
In the not too distant future, next Sunday A.D.
Your only choice is to be with Rogers (nevermind Fido, they got bought by Rogers). Whatever new iPhone comes out and even if it were free, the monthly bill from Rogers is too expensive and too limited.
I bet the iPod touch outsells the iPhone by a bigger margin than in the USA because of this.
Since you did win it in a contest, you know that you could abandon it now at no cost to you and just use what you'd prefer, a Nokia, Blackberry, whatever. But it would appear that you get enough use out of this "hamstrung, nerfed piece of junk," (and Apple's been providing pretty decent support to you on it) that you haven't gotten rid of it.
No snark, but how bad could the thing possibly be if you haven't replaced it? I have known some pieces of junk in my time... I do not think this term means what you think it means.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
It's a phone. I understand the iPhone is a cool toy. I've used one a lot that a friend has. Games are cool, video player is cool. But he's paying over $2000 for the phone and two years of service.
Wow.
My phone is from Net 10. I paid $60. It's decent, does what a phone should and has IM/SMS and can send/recv photos.
I pay $15/MO. That is $360, after taxes, for 2 years of service and 150 minutes a month. 10c a minute for more minutes, 5c for messages.
As much as I like gadgets, I just can't imagine paying $90/MO for the iPhone. I'd much rather put that money towards my mortgage. Am I alone in this thinking?
I don't understand what the point is. What are you going to do with your no-contract iPhone? Pay AT&T a monthly fee to use it on their service? Do they charge you less since they aren't subsidizing the phone?
No, the UK way is to have the phone covered by the contract but the contract only lasts a single year, after which the companies are obliged to SIM Unlock the phone for a nominal fee.
Or of course just to use pay as you go, if that's your thing.
It ain't necessarily so. Last time I upgraded I had to take an 18-month contract to get the phone I wanted. And being obliged to unlock "for a nominal fee" is news to me -- I have been quoted unlocking fees that were higher than the contract-free price of the handset.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
I'm still predicting and hoping that the iPhone will become more open as time goes on. I doubt they really wanted to be tied to a single carrier in the first place, but they had to make some deal with someone to get their foot in the door of a pretty closed-off industry. I suspect that some of the closed-off nature of the iPhone's development is a combination of deals that they have with AT&T and a tendency toward wanting to control a new product until it's more clear where things are going.
Personally, I'd love to see the iPhone eventually be a product that you buy outright, have reliable high-speed coast-to-coast wireless access, and your own choice of VoIP services. I bet that sort of thing would be appealing to Apple, too, if anyone were actually offering high-speed wireless dumb-pipe service.
Maybe I need to turn in my geek card, but all I expect from a phone is the ability to communicate by voice and very occasional text messages. I'll stick with an el-cheapo cell.
Well you know that Sham-Wow is made in Germany and Germans always make great stuff!
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
I think it's useful for those who broke or lost their iPhones. Like all Apple stuff, it'll cost you an arm and a leg, so you'd do darn well to take darn good care of it.
Urm, no. There's lots of business models; for exmple, the one I'm on (in France) accumulates 'points' related to my consumption (monthly fees) then lets me upgrade to a new 'phone. Depending on thetype of phone and the number of points i have, I may have to add some cash.
Of course the catch is that I have to agree to keep my subscription for the next 12 months. So, really the same as getting a 'free' phone with a new line, (also very cmmon in Europe)
I got a 16gig iPod Touch for $300. Does it really cost another $400 to add the cellphone components, camera, and mic? Really?? I have my doubts.
AT&T's real problem is:
They can't compete on 3G performance.
They can't compete on 3G coverage for all users.
They can't compete on price.
So they buy off Apple and force people to use a carrier that they wouldn't have chosen otherwise (Apple is scum for going along with this), on a data plan they wouldn't have selected, because AT&T can't win without cheating. So much for capitalism and may the best company win on the prices and performance.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Or, are they maybe trying to sell the current phones they have on stock out now, and this is a ploy to sell them faster?
Yup. I bought a 2G 8GB'er from AT&T back when they were selling "refurbished" units. Barely a few months later, the 3G came out.
"Refurbished" goods are a nice little pricing ploy used by a lot of consumer electronics companies. First, they get to sell to a different market- ie people who don't buy new things or have a low 'budget'. Second, they get to clear out old inventory, without hurting their price point; if they sell current iPhones at a cheaper price, the next iPhone will be "more expensive", even if it is the same price the previous model was when it was first released. Last but not least, consumer expectations on product reliability and support are lower on refurbished goods.
Please help metamoderate.
Not at all! All that the $400 higher price for the unlocked iPhone is proving is that Apple is still charging a premium price for what they feel is a high-demand item without competition for as long as they can get away with it. Look at Apple's profit margins on the bare iPhone and you'll see that they could market it at a far lower price and still make plenty of dosh if they had the manufacturing capability (they don't) to produce that many more of them, and the support staff (they don't) to handle that many additional new customers.
Remember that the iPhone itself isn't the only profit that Apple makes from this device. In addition to kickbacks from AT&T on the contracts, they collect a hefty percentage from all sales from both the Apps Store and iTMS. More iPhones out there means more sales from all these channels as well.
Apple just prefers to screw you in every way possible, and will continue to do so as long as fanbois buy the line: "We have to charge more so that we can continue to bring all these wonderful devices to you."
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Every phone I got with a contract was simlock free. Only the prepaid one I had had a simlock.
if you want a phone that is $600 and you are on a 3 year agreement, you pay $16.67 as a line item on your monthly bill to pay for the cost of the phone.
So the same as everywhere else then.
The difference is that the networks in mainland Europe are more likely to itemize this charge, and they don't bill it to people who bring their own phone.
For all those Americans who think that AT&T offers a lousy deal, look to the Great White North:
Mandatory 3 year contract. There's no option for an unlocked phone or a shorter contract.
$60 + sales tax for 500 Mb
$75 + sales tax for 1 Gb
Pretty lousy, eh? There's not even an option for an unlimited plan. Rogers had a temporary 6 Gb plan for early adopters that's no longer available.
This space left intentionally blank.
I love how marketers in North America continue to push the idea of "European". We've all seen the infomercials where they state "This is a best selling product in Europe..." or "In Europe this retails for $60 but..."
Infomercials? Your example might as well be a Craigslist add.
The way that it really works in Europe is that you pay for your phone over the course of your contract. For example, if you want a phone that is $600 and you are on a 3 year agreement, you pay $16.67 as a line item on your monthly bill to pay for the cost of the phone. That's much better than the hidden subsidy cost that most (if not all) North American carriers provide.
This is what Comcast does for people who don't want to use their credit cards on modems or other equipment. Unless I am missing something I don't see anything different here. Also there are hidden cost in the European plans, they are just put in different places. An example might be subsidizing roaming plans by increasing other charges.
Completely offtopic, but...
Have you seen those commercials with Kate Moss advertising some face make-up or something, and at the end, she presents the tagline "Get the London Look!"
Well, who the hell wants to pay for a freckled face and bad teeth?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
A line-item for the phone would be a great feature for us in the U.S. Currently, your phone is "subsidized" by the lock-in to the contract. Theoretically, this means that after the initial 2-year lock-in, your monthly price should go down as they aren't subsidizing the phone anymore. In reality, of course, the price stays the same and they keep the difference as added profit. Or, you can take your existing phone into another contract and have your already paid-for phone subsidized again.
A refreshing blend of nerd and cool.
C'mon, are you really trying to deliberately move the bar to create your own virtual logical fallacy? "You call it junk, but you're still using it, so you must be lying!"
A more reasonable, less flamebait analysis would be "It's junk, but not such bad junk* that you want to throw it away as long as you didn't pay for it... and you would have to pay for its replacement."
*Credit where credit is due, of course.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
The only other GSM-style carrier in US is T-mobile. Which has limited coverage and relatively poor service quality.
It's not like getting an unlocked iPhone in US opens limitless possibilities. There is Coke and there is Pepsi. I just don't see a point.
I'm an AT&T customer. I looked at my billing options and upgrade options, and nowhere did I find a pay-as-you-go plan or an I-already-own-a-phone plan that was less expensive than the plan I am already on. Plus if I actually want to use all the iphone's features I would have to pay an additional $30/month for data. How does owning this phone outright help me in any way? I can't change carriers or get a reduced monthly fee.
It's all relative. My phone was $6.50 refurbished from Virgin. I pay $90 pre-paid each November for a year of service. That's $186.50 for 2 years of service at about 75 minutes a month.
As much as as I like gadgets, I just can't imagine paying $15/MO for a phone. I'd much rather put that money towards blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blackjack. Ah, screw the whole thing.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Do you still have to jail-break the phone yourself to use on another GSM carrier?
In the United States, which other major GSM carriers are there? Do speeds and coverage on T-Mobile come near AT&T's?
OMG they try to make a profit on a popular item? How dare they. They should hire you immediately to teach them that their responsibility as a company is to satisfy your poorly explained whims.
I thought the iPhone was being sold without a subsidy already, so by saying you are paying a premium is actually an even worse deal than it is already.
If you read this, please reply to my email address.
I have been meaning to do what you were talking about. But it has been told to me that everytime I switch SIM I need to resynchronize with iTunes. Is this true? What are the problems?
Please email with an answer when you can, ok?
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Same here.. In regards to the iPhone itself, I seem to recall Spain's Telefonica offering (through Movistar) several options for contract (usually the same duration, but different SMS/data/voice minutes package -- and obviously different minimum monthly payments) as well as different options for pay-as-you-go cards (operators usually have more than one type of PAYG cards that try to tailor different usage habits). Check it out here (flash page).
Now, when I did look into it (before deciding it wasn't really worth it -- not saying the iPhone isn't a decent piece of hardware, but it's not THAT great either) most iPhone-specific fees (like the ones Movistar applies) relate to the heavy use of mobile internet.. And to cash in on the thing, but at the same time making the actual mobile bandwith costs reasonable, that fee was applied on top of existing ones.
You can get pretty much the same deals on any other smartphone on the market, it's just that the hype the iPhone generated prompted some operators to really look at the whole thing in a more sane way -- which is a Good Thing(TM). Now, most plans come with a reasonable ammount of web traffic included and you can pay separately to up the montly cap (a-la iPhone fee) if you typically need it, or just pay the excess at the penalty rates.
As for the rest: here in Portugal, it's very rare for people to actually buy the hardware itself. The subsidized phone is far cheaper, you ARE going to spend money on usage anyway, so why not have the operator partially subsidize the cost of the equipment required to use their services? Now, that means that technically the phone isn't really yours until the 2-year period expires, but that's ok. It also means that the phone is usally sim-locked to only allow usage of that particular operator's SIM cards, which isn't so great, but you CAN pay for a legal unlock (it usually runs about €100 over here).
As it stands right now, we have a 16+ year running multiple phone contract (actually, more like 3 different package deals) going with our operator, which we routinely negotiate and keep getting the best deals in town.. Sometimes the competition offers better terms, but that's usually fixed by getting our operator to at least match their offer. Oh, and we can buy any phone we like (not just limited to whatever the operator is offering at the moment), locked or otherwise, and get fully credited on our account -- not just for minutes that we have to use, but on the actual balance (ie, there was a point late last year where we went two months without paying because we had too much accumulated credit -- we could either use it to order products from them, like phones, or get a full rebate.. guess what we chose?).
Is this a cowboyneal type troll? But you haven't compared it to the Nomad or called it lame.
has support for that now
That too - apparently they had scalability problems which is why it was postponed (not exactly background, but push)
there's an app for that you can buy or hack your phone
I refer you back to the hacking of the iPhone - if your really a geek, that shouldn't scare you.
I'd beg to differ (I don't have one now, but I had one for a while when it first came out & it was really useful - didn't even need to bother looking up directions beforehand, IM was easy, etc). Now that was the only smartphone I've used so far because in Canada there's really no point unless you wanna pay like $100/mo for internet usage in your plan.
I've seen some really cool stuff with the hacked iPhone (and it seems like some of those features got into the latest 3.0). There are reasons not to buy the iPhone, but to call it a bad phone or a trinket isn't really fair. And they do keep working on it, so it keeps improving.
No, but your argument is still pointless.
Some people don't have a mortgage to worry about. Some (like myself) don't consider buying a house a priority (especially not these days.)
The supercheap phone works for you? Great! But that's not an argument against an iPhone, or any smartphone for that matter.
It's like saying "I don't need it, how could anyone else!"
I have a first gen iPhone that I unlocked and stuck a T-Mobile sim into. The only feature that doesn't work is the Visual Voicemail, but the phone has a non-visual voicemail mode that works perfectly fine (it's not like it locks up or anything, the phone just automatically dials in to your voice mailbox when you hit the voicemail button). The only other caveat is that if you turn the phone off and then back on, you will have to go and listen to the voicemail to clear the "new voicemail" indicator.
I read the internet for the articles.
Let's be clear on this: The phone is $199 or $299 with a 2 yr plan. The AT&T voice and 3G data plan will cost you $2000 over the lifetime of the plan. What AT&T charges for 3G data plans is outside Apple's control, but to note this 3G data plan is nearly same price whether you have an iPhone or a Blackberry or a Windows Mobile device.
In your case, you wanted fewer features. You paid less for a phone and plan. Some people want more features and pay more for the phone and the plan.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Well your usage is extremely low. What would you pay if you used between 500-1000 texts/month + 1200 or so minutes and then 500-1000mb of data?
Ask any British person, and they'll tell you it isn't.
Silver Clipboard: Time Management Tips
Google sells the G1 directly without a contract, fully unlocked, and with a root password.
It is aimed as a developed device, but do what with you you want.
http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/device.html
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
T-Mobile and ATT use different frequencies for 3G. T-Mobile uses 1700/2100, ATT uses 850 and 1900.
And yet people are unlocking their iPhones and using them on T-Mobile all the time.
I have unlocked an iphone and no, you don't have to resync when you change SIM cards. There aren't any downsides at all if you have unlocked iphone.
Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
So, there aren't any competing products out there? There aren't a dozen touch-screen phones now that have many, if not all of the same features?
I think there are few if any people who buy Apple products and don't recognize that they pay a premium.
The thing that gets me though, is you're acting as though Apple is somehow doing something wrong by charging as much as they do. It's up to them how much they charge, and if the market weren't willing to accept that, they would not be successful. Apple's not being deceptive about what you get with an iPhone, so where's the fault?
Of course, there's no such thing as "how it works in Europe". Yes, in Europe a phone is generally more detached from the subscription than what seems to be the norm in the US, but there are almost 50 different countries in Europes, all with their own little quirks and specialities when it comes to how mobile telephony has been implemented. Some countries have laws requiring GSM phones to be unlocked while allowing 3G phones to be locked. Some countries do not allow locked phones at all. Some countries let the market decide. The EU may harmonise the market a bit within its 27 member states, but generally lets the local governments decide how they want to implement things (and it's worth remembering that there are still some 20 European states that are not part of the EU).
Evidently, I'd be paying with my life, since I certainly wouldn't have one any more being tied to a phone that much :P.
So if I pay the full price of the phone up front, how much will they reduce the price of service?
Why should I pay the same monthly rate as someone who got a discount on his phone?
I second that. Coming from Continental Europe, visiting Britain - it is more akin to visiting US or Australia than Spain or Poland. Things are done differently, and engineering practices are compatible with continental Europe only when they absolutely have to be. Personal experience about engineering practices - In continental Europe - workmanship/quality comes first - cost/time to manufacture comes second. It is usually the opposite in Britain.
Except this phone is not unlocked; it's just without a contract! You can buy the phone, but you can't use it with any provider other than AT&T (without illegally unlocking the phone yourself) and, if you do activate the phone with AT&T, you still have to get an iPhone contract (i. e. you can't buy the no-contract iPhone and activate it on a regular, voice-only plan).
I still will not pay an absurd price for a phone than I can't use on the service that I want, the way I want.
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
I never said anybody was lying, silly goose. I just think the OP is pessimistic, and maybe a little gripe-happy. It's one thing to not like a product and to stop using it. But to complain about a product and to keep using it is irrational.
Obviously he might not have any choice, he might be poor and cannot afford a cellphone to replace the iPhone, but in that case he really has no standing to complain either, since in that case he's not in the market. A feature list will be rightly ignored if the specifier can't afford the thing that embodies the features. "All I can afford is junk," is an argument against buying junk, not against selling it. Maybe Apple would stop selling "junk" if it couldn't sell it, but it would appear that there's a pretty huge market for its "junk."
Sorry if this is abstruse, but nothing irritates me more than the typical nerd pose/social shibboleth of complaining about the product you regularly buy and use and rely on. Smart hackers build their own solutions and work with others to build their own solutions; dumb consumerist gadget whores bitch about vendors and lock-in. If you don't want it, don't buy it, don't use it, STFU.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Engadget didn't "report" this, they blogged Boy Genius, which blogged an original story by AppleInsider.
Another successful linkjack promoted by slashdot.
Europe's cell phone networks are technically homogeneous: Barring any artificial SIM/network locking, you can use a cell phone on all European networks.
That said, there is no European model. Europe is a bunch of countries with different people who speak different languages and have different preferences. We are moving closer together, but it's a slow process. The cell phone markets vary a lot between different European countries. Until 2007, using a cell phone in a different European country would have cost you an arm and a leg. Then the EU set an upper limit for roaming costs. It is still treated as roaming though and it still costs much more than "normal" usage.
Subsidy policies for phones also vary between countries. While most network operators are nowadays active in several countries, the markets have developed differently and what one company does in one country, the same company doesn't necessarily do in another country. There is both a tendency to reduce subsidies in favor of cheaper minutes and a tendency to make exclusive deals with phone manufacturers so that a customer can only get certain phones tied to a limited list of plans. At first the iPhone wasn't available without a contract in several European countries. In other European countries, which don't allow such forced bundling, you could also buy an iPhone contract-free, but at a wholly unattractive price. (The iPhone was and is neither the first nor the only phone with that kind of limitation.)
A relatively new kind of subsidy scheme emerges with affiliate marketing: Cell network operators pay hefty commissions to merchants who sell 24-month plans with relatively high fixed monthly payments. Some of these retailers pay out a share of that commission to the customer. That way the customer can use the payout to effectively reduce the monthly cost or to buy a new phone. Nevertheless, if you can find the phone subsidized directly by an equivalent plan, that is usually the cheaper option. It probably depends on the country whether you're going to see the monthly phone cost itemized on the invoice. Usually it's just rolled into the monthly base rate.
No Open Source advocate should have ANYTHING to do with iPhone until Apple COMPLETELY TOTALLY removes any form of DRM and makes all source code completely open.
Don't forget, Apple STOLE YOUR OPEN SOURCE CODE to make Webkit, which is part of the core iPhone software! Every person who carries an iPhone carries a VIOLATION of the spirit of the GPL.
Apple makes a living on closing Open Source, and they must NEVER be allowed to forget it!
GO ANDROID!
File a complaint with Ofcom. The unlocking fees are capped at either £10 or £15 (I can't remember which). Any network trying to charge more will be slapped with expensive penalties if Ofcom finds out.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
None of these looked particularly attractive, so I switched to pre-pay.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
after which the companies are obliged to SIM Unlock the phone for an extortionate fee
There, fixed it for you.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Correct, the UK is not in Europe. For example, it doesn't use the euro.
Considering how much iPhones sell for second-hand, if he's really that unhappy with it he could sell it and buy something he likes more - effectively with free money, since the phone was free.
Of course, he may simply have the same opinion as me with respect to the iPhone (and most Apple products); it sucks, but the competition sucks a whole lot more.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
to do anything useful with it. Jesus, I want an Android Dev phone. Why did I buy this POS?
Yes and they cannot access the 3G network. Just like what was said.
Ah, screw the whole thing.
Isn't that the point of hookers? *confused*
IN the US, you might as well do the contract with the subsidized phone.
From what I've seen...most cell phone companies here don't offer cheaper contracts if you have your own phone....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I've never had a cell phone with a SIM card in it. I'd really never heard of such a beast, till I heard of the iPhone...etc.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
If you've ever had a GSM phone, you've had a phone with a SIM card. You might not have realized it as the card is usually installed by the carrier when they give you the phone. And since the card is often shoved up into the phone from behind the battery, it can be invisible to someone who's not looking.
Now if you've used a provider like Sprint or lived in Japan your entire life, that would explain why you've never seen a SIM card.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Yep....never had a GSM phone.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I'd hate to see what kind of hooker $15/month gets you :p
Unlocking phones is not illegal. Don't keep perpetuating this myth.
> The UK must not be in Europe then.
No arguing that point, is there?
Except this phone is not unlocked; it's just without a contract! You can buy the phone, but you can't use it with any provider other than AT&T (without illegally unlocking the phone yourself) and, if you do activate the phone with AT&T, you still have to get an iPhone contract (i. e. you can't buy the no-contract iPhone and activate it on a regular, voice-only plan).
Unlocking a cell phone is not considered illegal in the US. There have been recent challenges to that, but it currently is considered legal. Here is the first link I found from searching for it online: http://www.darknet.org.uk/2007/04/legal-to-unlock-cell-phones-since-november-2006/
And it was soft as a baby's bottom!
Well actually, it may very well have been a baby's bottom, now that I think about it...
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Except this phone is not unlocked; it's just without a contract! You can buy the phone, but you can't use it with any provider other than AT&T (without illegally unlocking the phone yourself) and, if you do activate the phone with AT&T, you still have to get an iPhone contract (i. e. you can't buy the no-contract iPhone and activate it on a regular, voice-only plan).
Unlocking a cell phone is not considered illegal in the US. There have been recent challenges to that, but it currently is considered legal. Here is the first link I found from searching for it online:
http://www.darknet.org.uk/2007/04/legal-to-unlock-cell-phones-since-november-2006/
Yeah, I know. I meant "illegal" as shorthand for "in violation of the EULA supplied by the overbearing lawyers at Apple and AT&T, voiding your warranty, potentially making your life difficult after future software updates, and of questionable enough legality that you may face lawsuits from which you can't affordably defend yourself".
I wish Apple would sell an actually unlocked iPhone; I might well buy it at $600.
Let us look at the population penetration of iphone sale with your own statistic:
Japan population 128 million ; 70,000 iphone ; penetration (iphone/total pop) 0,055%
US population 300 million ; 600,000 iphone ; 0,2%
german population 82 million ; 70,000 iphone ; 0,085%
Granted I did not remove the people less likely to have an iphone (pop distribution is different in Japan/US/germany) but yes, japan despite being an heavy mobile phone user, has a lower penetration for iphone than any other. If Despite what appleinsider may say, if iphone was a sucess, sale penetration in the population would be higher. It is discutable whether it is a flop or not, but it certainly isn't a sucess. And we are not seeing the latest sale....
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
It does seem to be a relatively new phenomenon here too, previously I guess "Pay as you go" was the option, or one of the smaller, reseller firms (virgin etc.)
Its pityful to see that the great Western nations have shackled their people. One of the reason that the US mobile phone market ( and the telecom market in general ) sucks is because of the anti-competitive nature of businesses. And you ask why people are out of work? All companies mandate that people either pay unrealistically high costs for the freedom of choice or they offer pretty cheap plans if people are coerced into signing a contract. And if you try to get out of, you end up paying through your... ( you know ;) )
Look at India. The market has shown extremely good competition. The regulator makes it a point to stand with the consumers rather than join the telecom cartel. The market has shown phenomenal growth. People have true choice - of the operator, the cell phone they wish to own etc..
So in short, maybe its time that westerners look at the east as a role model. FCC has to sit up and take notice. Look at your country! You have hardly 2 telecom players. The market is consolidated. There is no competition. Your companies ( AT&T, Verizon ) are all money grabbing thugs who use unfair contracts and unfair, coercive means to keep consumers with them.
This article just goes to show that Apple would rather ask people to pay $600 / $800 for a substandard ( YES SUBSTANDARD ) piece of equipment ( You got Multi-touch but you dont have copy-paste?? COME ON!! ) with all sorts of locks in place? I'd not buy it even if someone paid me to use it! haha...
Americans have little or no choice when it comes to buying unlocked phones or . The US government has no right to talk about "freedom" or "democracy". Geez when will the American public realize this? /me laughs away with my amazing UNLOCKED Nokia phone :)
Oh BTW and you ask WHY the US economy is in recession? AT&T, Comcast, RIAA, MPAA and unregulated capitalism... Blame 'em all!! Oh yes and the people are to blame the most, to allow such idiots to jeopardise their livelihoods.
Does this mean we're one step closer to getting iPhone with Verizon? Could I buy this in the Apple store and then take it to a Verizon store and say "here, make this my phone"?
As I understand it, in other countries, when the iPhone is offered without a contract, the phone is unlocked. Does this mean that a $600 iPhone from an Apple Store in the US is now unlocked as well?
[Other smart phones] don't have enough memory to support a decent music library.
But some of them have microSDHC slots. SanDisk.com is selling 8 GB class-2 microSDHC cards for under $32.
Is this a US thing? the iPhone gets 3g speeds on T-Mobiles network in Germany
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
iPhone needs to be unlocked so we can use it with other carriers! Need competitions!!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
In fact, the iPhone is the only handset I know where you can hot-swap the SIM cards - I never switch it off, I just pop one off and put the new one in. VERY handy. No resyncing. Just works. Very smooth - and Apple implemented it in an amazing way. That's why simlocked or netlocked iPhones are a technological crime!!!
Roberto
In Belgium, I just go out to the store, by myself a cellphone of my own choice, pop in a sim card of whatever operator and buy prepaid cards. Want to switch providers? No problem, you can keep your number and everything.
As far as I know (seem to remember reading something about this in the paper around the time the iphone first came out), it's even forbidden here to couple contracts to cellphones.
I donno, I'm kinda interested.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
The iphone is 850/1900/2100 for 3g, so it depends on where they are. In a 2100 area they should be fine for 3g.
This would be more newsworthy if they offered it AT&T free...
"I won my iPhone in a contest,"
gratz.
"and that's the only reason I still have it, I didn't pay for it."
so you can't afford another phone. That's cool.
"The thing is a hamstrung, nerfed piece of junk thanks to Apple's very restrictive development and usage policies."
IT doesn't do what you want it to do? fine, nothing pleases everyone.
That doesn't make it a piece of junk.
It just means this free expensive phone you got doesn't ahve a few features you would like.
It is incredible useful, as is seen by the number of people using it, the number if apps, and it's continued growth in sales.
I can some up your post:
"I won something for free, and it's not exactly what I would like to have. It's junk."
Whiner.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Wrong. It is not a phone, it is a communication device. The 'phone' part is a subset of it's full use.
In fact, what you describe is a limited communications device and not a phone. Yes, it has phone features.
I have a G1, and having nice looking photos, 4 gigs of music, movies to watch, games to play, the ability to text with anyone I want, GPS, a map, Internet etc. clearly the phone is just one set of features.
Saying these devices is a phone is a bit like saying my computers is a network card.
For the record:
I only has a cell phone for about a year back in 2004. I love gadbets, but phones never did it for me, and I scoffed at thse phones with all this extra stuff. Until I got a touch iPod. I could do all this great stuff, if only it had a phone!
I don't have an iPhone becasue:
A) AT&T is teh suxors
B) And there is a certien appeal to me of plugging in a phone and being able to use it has a hard drive.
That said, I wish the G1 had an iTunes interface. That makes managing them really easy.
No, I am not trying to convince you to buy anything. Just pointing out that it isn't a phone.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Hrm.. while I'm dubious that apple has the only hot swappable SIM card, I think the main reason was probably that every other phone manufacturer decided to put their SIM card _BEHIND_ the freakin' battery.
and arguably, you can say that Apple's implementation sucked cause you have to have a paper clip to replace the SIM card. Not so in other phones.
If you sign up as a developer with Google ($25), you can get a SIM and bootloader unlocked G1 phone for $399. So for $415 plus free shipping (whoa, thanks Google) you can get your GPhone that you can do anythign with, flash, install any unsigned app. WHY are we still messing around with the IPhone. Lets pull together and make the G1 a success. As a side note I heard the G1 is a little slow, but HTC is coming out with newer hardware this June for the next revision of the Google Phone. Not sure if they will offer this newer hardware as part of the developer program though... Check it out here: http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/device.html
can get contracts without phones that are considerably cheaper
Not available in the US, which is why we're always changing phones. If you're going to pay the same each month, and you're reasonably happy with your carrier (and thus don't mind the contract), why not?
Yes, it is a different country. Just as going from Italy to Germany, things are done very differently. But, Germany, France and UK are not so different. Nor are Italy and Spain.
Your other observations are not true at all. It is just workmanship is cheaper in those countries.
Not quite... In 3G, the two frequencies are used together. One is for the uplink and one is for the download. 2100 in this case is the downlink. An iPhone wouldn't be able to establish the uplink via 3G making it unable to connect at 3G speeds at all.
ATT uses 850 for the uplink and 1900 for the downlink. Europe uses 1900 for the uplink and 2100 for the downlink. Hence the iPhone will work fine with ATT in the US and with carriers in Europe but not with T-Mobile (for 3G, that is).
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Who is gonna buy this shit for $699 anyways?
Nobody has a problem with them making a profit, what he's saying is they are screwing people over on the price, as it didn't cost them that much to make it. Hey they are free to charge a 500% markup, but when somebody else comes around with a competing product, we should hope they wouldn't run buy American Campaigns. Or if they should have fiscal problems down the road, we should hope they wouldn't ask us to bail them out. If the company is anything like the ones we see today though, that is highly unlikely.
If they charge more than 10, or 15 pounds, report to Ofcom. Ofcom will slap them to the moon and back.
They are not supposed to charge any more than 10 or 15
Have a nice day!
It's a phone.
It's a smartphone.
I understand the iPhone is a cool toy.
No, it is a smartphone.
I've used one a lot that a friend has. Games are cool, video player is cool.
Well, you just had a look at the iPhone, probably by somebody that bought it just because it is cool. Okay, this is okay.
But: it has the best browser by far on a small mobile device (the Palm Pre is still vaporware, and since it uses the same html engine, it probably gets performance improvements only by using caching), and it has a lot of useful applications. I use my iPhone to browse the internet, to get timetables, to get weather info, as a currency converter and a maps application, to keep track of my appointments, as a gps device, a pocket calculator, as a portable database of my 4500 classical music CDs, as a portable english, spanish, german dictionary, as a multilingual medical dictionary (useful if you travel a lot), as a remote control for my mac-based multimedial setup at home, a mobile 3g modem (yes), as an iPod, I also have the european Michelin guide and the Wine Guide, and also have a few toys and 12 or so games.
I spent 569 eur on it, factory unlocked, and I use it with prepaid cards in Italy, Germany, Chile, Canada, France- the countries I travel most often to - otherwise I use an international prepaid SIM card. In Italy, Germany, and Chile I can use very inexpensive prepaid data packages.
Now, if I did not do all the things mentioned above, it would have been foolish to spend so much money for a beautiful, very expensive phone. At least for me, I am not rich. But I am using it as much more than just a phone. I do not use it as a camera because I usually have my DSLR with me. But I also took a couple of quick shots (like correspondence - shoot it and keep it - quite handy).
Now, for all the things I do, yes, it still is not a cheap gadget, but it is a very flexible and very useful tool with an apparent premium price that goes in making it thin (I do not like to look like I am carrying a baseball ball in my trousers) and with amazingly well thought ergonomics.
But he's paying over $2000 for the phone and two years of service.
Depends how much he uses the phone. To spend $1500 or more for two years of service is not uncommon in north america, and if you do use all the minutes in the plan, it can actually be a deal.
My phone is from Net 10. I paid $60. It's decent, does what a phone should and has IM/SMS and can send/recv photos.
I pay $15/MO. That is $360, after taxes, for 2 years of service and 150 minutes a month. 10c a minute for more minutes, 5c for messages.
As much as I like gadgets, I just can't imagine paying $90/MO for the iPhone. I'd much rather put that money towards my mortgage. Am I alone in this thinking?
Well, you are not alone. It is not the gadget for you. You would not be using the iPhone for what it was designed - but just as a mobile phone. Which, by the way, it does in a very, very good way. The address book is the best I have seen so far on a cell phone. With a group management application I bought separately, it is just fantastic. But using it only to call and text, that's an expensive toy. You can get a Razr for much less, and for that only it is just as great - just an example, I like think phones. Roberto
Sure, if you buy from the network's that's the case. But you can also buy phones SIM-free and unlocked if you go elsewhere. Play.com has a good selection - they even sell imported iPhones SIM-free and unlocked now.
It's right to say that, for example, selling phones SIM-free in Belgium is 'the Belgian way', because subsidising phones is illegal there, but to say that subsidising is 'the UK way' is misleading.
Yep....never had a GSM phone.
well, my phone has 5-6 year, and it use the sim card of the phone before that, so i could not understand how you do NOT KNOW of the sim card...
other side of the world maybe :)
While correct for some subscriptions (some are hidden here to) the actual marketing always mention the "pay now" fee without any kind of sign up fee or something such over here, so it doesn't help much.
All phones are marketed as really cheap even though they aren't.
I think the common price over here is 350 sek, so just over 30 euro, better get a phone which you can unlock reasonable easy yourself.
(For instance I think it's quite easy with Sony-Ericsson W595.)
Ask any British person, and they'll tell you it isn't.
No, they are the sub-country of USA ;)
Because...no phone I've every owned HAS a sim card. No such thing on the networks I've always been on...In my case Sprint.
Hard to know about something you've never had. Kinda of like asking an only child if they miss having brothers and sisters. How would they know?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
EU/EMU isn't Europe ..
It's most definitely the dominant way of going about it. Even with PAYG the phones are tied to the network and subsidised to a small extent.
I miss your point. How is paying $16.67 a month for 36 months better than paying $600 once?
The UK is indeed in Europe (I can't believe I even have to write this). There are plenty European countries that don't use the Euro, so that's a dumb-rationale: Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, and Sweden, to name a few.
Europe is a one of the seven continents and the UK belongs to that particular one.
Did I miss the sarcasm somewhere?