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Judge Says Boston Student's Laptop Was Seized Illegally

You may remember a case we discussed this April in which a Boston College student's computers and other electronics were seized after he allegedly sent an email outing another student as gay. The search warrant made sure to note the student's ever-so-suspicious use of "two different operating systems," one of which was "a black screen with a white font which he uses prompt commands on." Now, the EFF reports that a Massachusetts judge has thrown out the search warrant and declared the search and seizure illegal. Quoting: "In her order Thursday, Justice Margot Botsford rejected the Commonwealth's theory that sending a hoax email might be unlawful under a Massachusetts computer crime statute barring the 'unauthorized access' to a computer, concluding that there could be no violation of what was only a 'hypothetical internet use policy.' Thursday's decision now stands as the highest state court opinion to reject the dangerous theory that terms of service violations constitute computer 'hacking' crimes. Justice Botsford further found that details offered by police as corroboration of other alleged offenses were insufficient and did not establish probable cause for the search." The court order (PDF) is available for viewing, and the EFF has broken down the significant arguments against the Commonwealth's claims.

190 comments

  1. So Linux isn't suspicious by Norsefire · · Score: 5, Funny

    And it's not only used by rebels wanting to dodge the law? Bah, I'm going back to Windows.

    1. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can just imagine the investigation:

      "your honour, we had to shoot him! He was using the Command Prompt! He could have... given commands! Only a hacker would know how to do such mysteries!"

    2. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait until they see my cp [source] and [destination]

    3. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just wait until they see my cp

      The Federal Bureau of Investigation has logged a record of this chat along with the IP addresses of the participants due to potential violations of U.S. law. Reference no. 8429l271. Your IP address has been entered into our suspect database and may be sent to Child Protective Services. Please wait while memory ref. code 90637895 is entered into the database.

    4. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by AlexBirch · · Score: 1

      He threatened to ctrl-alt-del us!

    5. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by centuren · · Score: 1

      Don't forget Action Man. Elite hackers work in Windows, too.

      c:\dos> vol

      Volume in drive C is DOS
      Volume Serial Number is 12A1-1C20

      c:\dos> label
      Volume in drive C is DOS
      Volume Serial Number is 12A1-1C20
      Volume label (11 characters, ENTER for none)? 3L1T3H4CK3R

      c:\dos> vol

      Volume in drive C is 3L1T3H4CK3R
      Volume Serial Number is 12A1-1C20

      c:\dos> damn i rool
      Bad command or file name

      c:\dos> root
      Bad command or file name

      c:\dos> give actionman root
      Bad command or file name

      c:\dos> password root actionman
      Bad command or file name

      c:\dos> FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK
      Bad command or file name

      c:\dos> whyamisolameohgodpleasesomeonekillme
      Bad command or file name

      c:\dos> ohgodimafourstarloser
      Bad command or file name ]

    6. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by FreakyGreenLeaky · · Score: 1

      This would be funny if it wasn't so scary...

    7. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by instarx · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...and by the way you are now on the Federal no-fly list.

    8. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by Whiternoise · · Score: 2, Funny

      I call to the defence: "Early nineties sci-fi films!" If they've taught us anything, it's that the terminal is clearly an evil mechanism for hacking government computers.

    9. Re:So Linux isn't suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait until they see my cp

      The Federal Bureau of Investigation has logged a record of this chat along with the IP addresses of the participants due to potential violations of U.S. law. Reference no. 8429l271. Your IP address has been entered into our suspect database and may be sent to Child Protective Services. Please wait while memory ref. code 90637895 is entered into the database.

      And just what is wrong with my images and movies of Captain Picard?

  2. FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now when does he get his equipment back? What happens when they hand him a box of busted parts and walk away? (Like Steve Jackson Games)

    It is great that we have this victory for our rights. But how do we keep the police from doing it over and over again? The out of control police need oversight to make sure they don't do this again!

    1. Re:FInally someone has a clue by jerep · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Rights? I think they are more like privileges. They revoked his privilege when they seized his laptop out of sheer ignorance, and restored it after admitting they were wrong, nothing new here ;)

      It's like George Carlin once said, rights aren't rights if they can be taken away from you at any time they wish.

      Now I wonder what would've happened if he resisted the seizure and told them he's keeping his laptop and explained he didn't do anything wrong.

    2. Re:FInally someone has a clue by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He can more than likely proceeded civil claims against against the constabulary there. The thing is its up to him to do that and it may prove costly. If he wins he can probably stick the police department with reasonable court costs as well but he will never get his time back.

      The moral of the story here folks is that are justice system is an adversarial one at all levels. You should never never cooperate unless you feel it is in YOUR near term; best interest to do so. Its never a good idea to help law enforcement simply out of some concept of civic responsibility you will only find yourself on the wrong end of it for your trouble. They have long forgotten (systemically not always individually there are plenty of good cops out there) their job is to serve and protect the people. They now mostly exist to serve government and its all controlling pervasive aims.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    3. Re:FInally someone has a clue by InsertWittyNameHere · · Score: 4, Funny

      Finally, we can safely return to our nightly rituals of eating Cheetos, drinking Jolt and sending out emails from Xmail accusing people of being gay.

    4. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As far as I am aware very few people actually ever get seized equipment back (or if they do, it's not in working order), even when nothing infringing was found on it, or the seizure was deemed illegal, etc.

      Sadly there are no checks and balances in the system. If the police had to issue the equipment back in original working order, proof that all analyses had been eradicated, provide compensation for the lost time and presumably the replacement computer the student had to buy and publish an apology in the wide-spread media, then maybe they would stop and think before acting, or at least have a more measured response.

    5. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now I wonder what would've happened if he resisted the seizure and told them he's keeping his laptop and explained he didn't do anything wrong.

      They would have taken it anyway and arrested him for obstruction of justice. That charge would not have been thrown out, regardless of whether or not the court order was later found to be illegal.

      You don't get to pick and choose which court orders you respect, you have to challenge them in a proper forum.

    6. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      nothing new here

      See, how you simply accepted their reality as true?
      That's the power of their delusional confidence, and your belief that, if everybody says it, it must be true.
      Same thing as with the guys who get women. They don't look better, or are richer. They simply are more confident in their reality.

      I, for one do not follow that made-up shit.

      2 + 2 = 5 :P

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    7. Re:FInally someone has a clue by hedwards · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps the moral of the story is that if you behave like a dick you can get into trouble. Seriously, this guy was a dick and he ended up having a huge inconvenience. Sure the police action was inappropriate, but it's not like he was acting in good faith from the start.

      I'd be surprised if he ends up with any windfall over this, if by some chance he does successfully sue, I'm sure he will himself be sued by the person that he outed.

    8. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, well if it's the way it is then I guess we can stop caring. It's OK everyone, he said it's the way it is. Or, how about we make it the way it should be?

    9. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Thiez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What is the point of your post? GP says 'the police need oversight because they screw people' and then you come in and say 'the police doesn't need oversight because they screw people and get away with it'.

      How does that even make sense?

    10. Re:FInally someone has a clue by peektwice · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Simply being a dick doesn't warrant getting the cops all over you. You may think so, but you'd be what I like to call "wrong". I will now wait for the search warrant, since I was a dick.

      --
      Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
    11. Re:FInally someone has a clue by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 1

      from a quick read of the TFAs it seems that there was a grudge-holding roommate (maybe the one he outed?) who did his best to grossly exaggerate the "hacker" aspect to the police. Ah the joys of petty arguments.. Why couldn't they just punch each other a couple of times? or get new roommates?

    12. Re:FInally someone has a clue by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      They had a warrant, they would take them by force and arrest him as well.

    13. Re:FInally someone has a clue by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      either way the person should have just sued for slander/liable/defamation.... the cops should have known the matter was not theirs to deal with.

    14. Re:FInally someone has a clue by ancient_kings · · Score: 1

      At the very least. Police that illegally seize equipment should be arrested. They are walking perps. They should be held to a much MUCH higher standard since they are trained officers.

    15. Re:FInally someone has a clue by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Ah, but that would seriously fuck up their ability to sieze property and later auction it off as proceeds of crime. The county I live in relies heavily on the proceeds of police auctions to fund the sheriff's department. They haven't quite gotten to the point of zero tolerance siezures, but they're getting there.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    16. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Nitage · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wrong. The judge didn't revoke the search warrant - she ruled that it had never been legal in the first place.

    17. Re:FInally someone has a clue by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 1

      good point. but they were dealing with a "hacker", or that was their excuse for a power trip. In fact I bet there was a power trip aspect, and maybe a little of "nipping things in the bud"? "The police let a hacker keep his equipment after a previous incident and now 2 years later he broke into the CIA...." makes a good story. Mostly power trip, I suspect.

    18. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      He's saying "that's life" rather than "that's a good thing". Or maybe he is just trolling...

      --
      $ make available
    19. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      Me:(calls 911) Officer, my TV is broken!
      Dispatcher:Not my problem
      Me:Some hacker did it!
      Disp.:OMG! (picks up radio) Calling all cars!

      Time passes

      Officer:So a hacker did this?
      Me:Yeah, look at that static! That's totally unnatural for this TV, it's magic!
      Off.:OMG! Who could have done this!
      Me:My next-door-neighbor (the same neighbor who acts like a dick all the time)
      Off.:(goes next door) You're under arrest!
      ??:Profit!

      --
      $ make available
    20. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Thinboy00 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Sadly there are no checks and balances in the system.

      Of course there are! IANAL. Just sue the city/county/whatever for the value of your stuff. If they won't reimburse you/you can't sue them/whatever, whine to the newspapers until they do (otherwise they (the politicians) risk not getting reelected, though that works best if they're not democrats since ~all media outlets other than Fox are in bed with the dems).

      --
      $ make available
    21. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      How about a Strategic Lawsuit Against Government Participation next time they get out of hand? Having to field a lawsuit every time they seize something illegally might make the county more careful...

      --
      $ make available
    22. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...though that works best if they're not democrats since ~all media outlets other than Fox are in bed with the dems).

      Seriously? Partisan politics shit in a story that has nothing to do with them? Get a clue, man.

      The notion of the media's liberal bias that conservatives whine about is nothing but smoke and mirrors. The media has one bias: sensationalism. Headlines/stories/etc are chosen/wrote to grab attention and to inflate their impact on people's lives to make it seem like a person just has to read it or they'll be missing out on something vital.

      In summary, please stop injecting this nonsense into discussions as it makes you sound like a mouthpiece.

    23. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Workaphobia · · Score: 2, Funny

      There are five lights.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    24. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DarkOx,

      The moral of the story here folks is that are justice system is an adversarial one at all levels.

      Its never a good idea to help law enforcement simply out of some concept of civic responsibility you will only find yourself on the wrong end of it for your trouble.

      I hope you never have to report a crime (like a stolen car) because I would expect you to NEVER call the police even should you need them.

      You should never never cooperate unless you feel it is in YOUR near term; best interest to do so.

      Yeah, that's the rub, isn't it. You giveth, and you taketh away. Never, unless it is convenient to. What kind of absolute is that?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    25. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The lost time thing won't fly, period. People aren't even compensated for time spent in a jail cell! Forget about compensation for lost computer time, or anything remotely similar for automobiles, apartments, homes, tools and equipment.

      But, yes, the automobile, apartment, tools, equipment, AND COMPUTERS should be returned in working order. If not, the state SHOULD BE LIABLE.

      Most definitely.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    26. Re:FInally someone has a clue by nbauman · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's like George Carlin once said, rights aren't rights if they can be taken away from you at any time they wish.

      No, rights are something you fight for. It's a line in the sand. You let people know that if they try to take away your rights you'll fight for them.

      Take away my rights and I'll fuck you, motherfucker.

      And I'll bring my boys to fuck you. Tough dudes from Slashdot.

    27. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps the moral of the story is that if you behave like a dick you can get into trouble. Seriously, this guy was a dick and he ended up having a huge inconvenience. Sure the police action was inappropriate, but it's not like he was acting in good faith from the start.

      This comment reinforces my opinion of you, which is that I think that you're an asshole. However, that doesn't mean that I believe you should be harassed by the police, get cancer or die in a fire. One of the biggest problems we have is that the self-righteous think that they have the right to treat others as they wish, and that it's OK to do so if the person is a "dick" (or, not of my race, religion, gender and so forth).

      That doesn't mean that you have to allow the assholes of the world step on you, but it does mean that they can be assholes and still be permitted to live.

      It's called tolerance - try cultivating some.

    28. Re:FInally someone has a clue by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Well, with seized electronic equipment, you should certainly get it back, and in the condition it was seized in. Now of course, you likely won't get it back until after it's no longer needed as evidence. (A business may be able to demonstrate that the loss of the equipment significantly impacts their ability to do business, and have a judge order the originals returned after duplicates are made.) If it's an illicit-data case, your equipment will be returned scrubbed of all data. (See n.b. above re: businesses.) If you're convicted, you generally don't get your stuff back.

      If you don't get your equipment back and in working order, you have good grounds to sue the police. At least among the computer forensic analysts I know, this is certainly a concern. A number of procedures -- like jailbreaking an iPhone to get its data -- are potentially destructive to the equipment and are avoided because the device may need to be returned to its owner.

    29. Re:FInally someone has a clue by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      I know you can't sue the Feds unless you first sue them to get permission to sue them. Not sure about local government, though.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    30. Re:FInally someone has a clue by el3mentary · · Score: 1

      2+2=5

      For significantly large values of 2.

      --
      I reject your reality and substitute my own.
    31. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      BUT, there's legal assumptions as long as there's reason to believe the warrant's valid.

      IE You challenge it in court, not on site.

      Same with false arrest - sure, the arrest can be ruled illegal later, along with various penalties and payments, but you're still going to be screwed if you resist arrest.

      I think it's along the 'two wrongs don't make a right', and that you don't want people resisting arrest/warrants left and right on the basis that they're invalid - before their invalidity is proved in court.

      Heck, this ruling is still subject to appeal - overruling at higher courts is still possible.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    32. Re:FInally someone has a clue by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      No, there are four.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    33. Re:FInally someone has a clue by blindseer · · Score: 2, Informative

      either way the person should have just sued for slander/liable/defamation.... the cops should have known the matter was not theirs to deal with.

      I believe that defamation only includes telling lies. Telling people that a certain presidential candidate used illicit drugs is not defamation if in fact the person did inhale. That candidate may not bring up defamation charges but only qualify or clarify the situation, such as pointing out how it happened long ago, the person completed rehabilitation, and/or the candidate feels such a substance should no longer be controlled as strictly.

      Off topic but pertinent to my example:
      I find it odd how many of our elected officials feel the need to demonize certain substances because "it will ruin your life" or "it's so powerful no one can truly be free from its influence" when so many of them and their colleagues have been known to take these substances in the past. By this logic getting elected president is "ruining your life" and these elected officials are still taking cocaine, marijuana, or what have you. Considering the state of our nation I would tend to believe that many of these elected officials are in fact still taking drugs as it is difficult to explain some of their actions otherwise.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    34. Re:FInally someone has a clue by HiThere · · Score: 1

      He wasn't claiming it was a good system. Merely that this was the way the system way.

      Yes, he was claiming that acting for the general good would only get you in trouble, so you should only act selfishly. I hope he's not right. Unfortunately, there's more that a modicum of evidence that at least occasionally he IS right (about this).

      Yes, police oversight is needed. But also just laws. When even idealized police enforce unjust laws, the result is not justice. And a just court system. When a party can prevail in court merely because he's wealthier, or has less to lose, then you don't get a just legal system.

      See any problems with our current system?

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    35. Re:FInally someone has a clue by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You *can* sue them, but it can be dangerous. Best move out of the county first, and try to get the venue changed to your new address.

      (Caution: IANAL)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    36. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Police arrested my brother while I happened to be renting a room in his basement. They took two of my computers and all my backups as well, basically my entire web design business.

      Took me three months to get them back, minus the hard drive they dropped on the floor and rendered useless. Literally, they let me into the 'recovery room' that they use to give people their property back, and my broken hard drive was on the floor. The rest of my equipment was on a cart.

      Not even a 'sorry'.

      The only nice thing about it was they didn't care at all about the mp3s and movies I had downloaded from bittorrent.

      Fuck the police.

    37. Re:FInally someone has a clue by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but that isn't true. Sensationalism is, I'll grant, the main media bias, but it isn't the only one. Editorial policy is quite strong. (If you think FOX is the only Republican media, you are quite wrong. But all the major media have a "conservative" agenda, because they are all owned and operated by organizations controlled by wealthy people [and usually men]. These people have much to lose if things change. They may disagree on the best strategy for maintaining their dominance, but they agree on the goal.)

      P.S.: If you think EITHER the Republicans OR the Democrats are the good guys, you need to take a closer look at either history or current affairs. Anywhere you look proves that they are both self-serving bastards, and that very few of them have the welfare of the citizenry at heart.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    38. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Admiral+Ag · · Score: 4, Funny

      So he used computer technology to announce that someone was gay... and he got into legal trouble. Well, the courts are going to be swamped if the police ever find out about Halo 3.

      --
      "by that I mean people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots" DECS
    39. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I see lots or problems with the current system. Where would you like me to start?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    40. Re:FInally someone has a clue by LaskoVortex · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps the moral of the story is that if you behave like a dick you can get into trouble.

      Calling him a dick is rather dickish, don't you think?

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
    41. Re:FInally someone has a clue by hustlebird · · Score: 2, Informative

      People aren't even compensated for time spent in a jail cell!

      They typically are when it is longer periods due to a wrongful conviction.
      A man in San Diego, CA awarded $100/day for the time he spent in a jailcell
      A man in boston served 18 years, eligible for up to $500,000
      An Australian man seeks 7.5 Million in damages from 12 years served, West AU offering 3.25

      Not that I dont agree the lost time thing will ever work, just wanted to point out that people are infact compensated for jailtime they didnt deserve

    42. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I have never heard of anyone being compensated - this is worth looking at. Certainly, our local county jail compensates NO ONE. State prison system? I highly doubt it. Thanks for the links.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    43. Re:FInally someone has a clue by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Many officers of the law behave like dicks from the get-go. Can we use that to justify our own behavior towards them?

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    44. Re:FInally someone has a clue by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      I would be VERY surprised if he gets it back.. Law enforcement nowadays LOVES to civily seize property EVEN if there is no criminal conviction.. I'm gonna bet he's going to have to spend a large amount of money to hire an attorney to go after these shitstains.

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    45. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as I am aware very few people actually ever get seized equipment back (or if they do, it's not in working order), even when nothing infringing was found on it, or the seizure was deemed illegal, etc.

      I'm posting this anonymously due to the circumstances ...

      I did some stupid stuff back in the mid-90's that caused the police to get a warrant for my computer/equipment. They took anything electrically related (had a bunch of 74xx series chips and such for electronics).

      After I got sentenced to 1 year probation, I had my lawyer ask for my equipment back, prosecution didn't have a problem with it, so the judge ordered my equipment back.

      Went down to the police station, and they mentioned they had to send some of my stuff to the FBI, and they only had part of my stuff, and I took back the main computer and about 6 boxes of floppy disks. Of which that day bought a powerful electromagnet and wiped everything. :)

      What the police sent to the FBI included: monitor, joysticks, keyboard, mice, 74xx DIPs, printer, etc. Everything else was returned about 2 months later.

      Needless to say, everything worked correctly, didn't have anything damaged that I was aware of.

      YMMV

    46. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This bullshit only happened because he dared to upset one of the 'chosen class' of people - known as 'gays'. (The other 'chosen classes' are blacks, hispanics, illegal aliens, and, of course, the scum behind all of this UNDEMOCRATIC bullshit - the 'precious' JEW).

      Gays are sick perverts, and EVERYBODY knows it, especially them. So we have to be FORCED to pretend that we think they're just normal and wonderful, when everybody knows they are sick...

    47. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah the rare lesser brained right wing AC, who is so incredibly pathetic he blames others for his own inadequacies.

    48. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Let me guess, American?

      In the British, Australian, NZ, and possibly Canadian legal system, you have a legal right to use reasonable force to resist an unlawful arrest. (p464 The English Legal System, By Gary Slapper and David Kelly)

      In the US police _can_ arrest you without good reason, and then simply charge you with resisting arrest which is natural and reasonable behaviour for most people.

      To my mind, this just leads to a police state.

    49. Re:FInally someone has a clue by operagost · · Score: 1

      All wealthy people are conservative? Heck, Rupert Murdoch OWNS Fox News and he isn't conservative. But basically I can dismantle your argument with two words: George Soros.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    50. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he used conservative in a broader sense.

    51. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now when does he get his equipment back? What happens when they hand him a box of busted parts and walk away? (Like Steve Jackson Games)

      It is great that we have this victory for our rights. But how do we keep the police from doing it over and over again? The out of control police need oversight to make sure they don't do this again!

      I see you also never bothered to read the warrant. I really don't see how this one was thrown out, since it really had little or nothing to do with him slandering the other student.

      Just as a refresher, he did not send "an email" about another student being gay. He MAIL BOMBED the entire campus, and the system admin shut him off for it.
      Then he was also investigated for hacking into the student grade database & altering people's grades.
      There were also several reports of him possesing stolen laptops, installing rootkits on other people's machines that he was "fixing", and using several intimidation tactics to keep people quiet, including a former roomate who turned him in.

      The whole bit about using multiple OS's was just some minor side detail to the whole thing, and was not one of the reasons detailed for getting the warrant.

    52. Re:FInally someone has a clue by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      If you're convicted, you generally don't get your stuff back.

      I don't understand this at all. The only punishment the state can impose on you is the once given out by the court.

      Yes, often there are laws about things purchased with the proceeds of a crime, but this is an entirely separate concept from things collected as evidence. They might be the same thing, or they might not.

      Same with asset seizure laws. Things that they can seize, may, or may not, be evidence, and things that are evidence may, or may not, be things they can seize.

      But regardless, I often hear about things taken as evidence, not 'seized' but used a evidence, never being returned when the person is found guilty. There's nothing in the law that would allow such behavior that I can see.

      If I commit a murder, and carry the body in my car, and they (quite reasonable) take my car in as evidence and use it to prove I committed the murder, and I'm found guilty, fine. But it's still my fucking car, and I should get it back.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    53. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      In the US police _can_ arrest you without good reason, and then simply charge you with resisting arrest which is natural and reasonable behaviour for most people.

      They sometimes try; it normally gets thrown out in court if there's not reasonable cause to believe that it was actual, serious resisting arrest. That's supposed to take serious fighting/evading the police, not simply failing to obey an officer's every command instantly.

      Besides, isn't there are term for a non-arrest arrest in Britain? I've heard there's a not-really stated policy to do this to as many people as possible to get them into the DNA database.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    54. Re:FInally someone has a clue by Loko+Draucarn · · Score: 1

      Man, I've got to get my eyes checked. I'm only seeing three. Occasionally three and a half.

  3. Now that I have the courts behind me by UncleWilly · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot is gay.

    1. Re:Now that I have the courts behind me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Slashdot is gay.

      No, Anonymous Coward is gay

    2. Re:Now that I have the courts behind me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot is gay.

      Perhaps.

  4. Is he gonna get compensated? by Zapotek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or can the police kick down your door, seize whatever they want and when the court deems their actions as illegal they just say "Oops, our bad."?

    1. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      yes.

      because, until you're proven innocent in a court of law, you're just a goddamn dirty crook who doesn't deserve to have anything because obviously everything you have is an ill-gotten gain.

    2. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by squarooticus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Compensation for what? In the modern Western world, quaint notions of property rights and due process have been deprecated in favor of civil forfeiture, eminent domain for transfer to other private parties, stare decisis, and political connections.

      You can't really own property anymore so much as lease it from the government for a yearly fee. (If you disagree with this viewpoint, try not paying your property taxes: then you'll find out who the real owner is.) Therefore, since the government owns all your stuff anyway, they have no need to compensate you for damages, since the government only damaged their own stuff.

      </snark>

      --
      [ home ]
    3. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by owlnation · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or can the police kick down your door, seize whatever they want and when the court deems their actions as illegal they just say "Oops, our bad."?

      The thing I find curious, is that the press and the more hysterical government representatives (in most western countries) are so keen and quick to blame violence on TV and in computer games as being the cause of violence in society. We know that this isn't the case of course.

      However, no-one seems to be quite so quick to suggest that shows like "24" have a negative influence over Police and Security Services behavior.

      It seems that black ops, and seize it now -- find a crime and apologize later, is a more common occurrence then ever before -- again, in several countries.

      Does TV influence cop behavior? Probably not any more than TV violence affects society -- but how come it never gets mentioned? I know why, of course, but it's interesting to raise the point I think.

    4. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Yup, that is how it works.

      Or stop you on the street and if their drug dog acts suspicious, they can tear y our car apart there on the street, complete with cutting your seats and ripping the dash out of your car. "oops, no drugs, have a nice day" and drive off with you standing beside your now 'totaled' car.

      Of course you can sue to be compensated after the fact, but good luck winning.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    5. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Bearhouse · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the other hand, in most 'developed' nations, those same taxes pay for people to protect you and your property. (If you disagree with this viewpoint, try living in a lawless state: then you'll find out why we used to live in castles, or their modern equivalent, gated communities).

      You're absolutely right though in your main point - the systematic erosion of civil liberties by these same 'developed' nations is very worrying, and must be resisted otherwise we'll end up with the worst of both worlds. Who was it who said something like "eternal vigilence is the price of democracy"? Churchill?

    6. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      And you may mean this in a sarcastic way, but by even allowing this p.o.v. to exist, you actively support putting it in people's brains, that this even can be seen as normal (even if you don't).
      Please stop that. We do *not* live in such a world. In is *not* that way.

      It only is that way, if you join that new made-up reality!
      People *have* to believe crap, and that some "authority figure" is right, for something like that to even exist.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    7. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Simple: Because we are not that ruthless and unethical, to be able to make up such crap, and believe in it strongly enough, for whole groups (like the news media) no fall for it.

      And that is why evil will always triumph. Not because good is to stupid. But because it follows some ethics, and does not have that delusional confidence.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    8. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by hedwards · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course, they had a warrant to do so. In most parts of the country having a warrant is sufficient to shield from liability. The check to the police action is in the process of getting the warrant. If the warrant turns out to be bunk, the police aren't going to get into trouble unless they provided false evidence.

      Misinterpreting evidence is not sufficient in most cases.

    9. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by nametaken · · Score: 1

      I know I'm goofy this way, but I've always liked to think that it only happens just as much as it always did, or even less often.

      It seems like the difference is much greater access to information. It wasn't that long ago that this sort of situation would have happened and you NEVER would have known. It just wouldn't have been big enough news to take up space in some newspaper halfway across the country.

    10. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      So why do people move to gated communities guarded by PRIVATE security as soon as they get some real money? Why do they send their kids to PRIVATE schools? Seems like they prefer services offered by private companies to the tax funded government provided goodness.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    11. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by JediTrainer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      However, no-one seems to be quite so quick to suggest that shows like "24" have a negative influence over Police and Security Services behavior.

      That's an excellent point. Has anyone tallied how often Jack Bauer ("the hero") demonstrates that it's ok to use torture, and even murder (shoot and kill a prisoner right in the CTU boardroom) if it's for his cause?

      --

      You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
    12. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, in most 'developed' nations, those same taxes pay for people to protect you and your property. (If you disagree with this viewpoint, try living in a lawless state: then you'll find out why we used to live in castles, or their modern equivalent, gated communities).

      What your OP is talking about is basically allodial title vs. limited allodial title or fee simple which is what most US practically has.

      Of course, you swing to the extreme to counter about "if we had no taxes" which is no counterargument at all since he didn't argue for 0 taxes anywhere. I can have a $500,000 car in my $100,000 home, yet in most states that car will not cost me 1 penny more in non-excise taxes after I purchase it because I own it outright. Yet, if that situation is reversed and I have 500k home and a 100k car, I would get charged up the rear in taxes.

      Would you argue I should pay more taxes on that car or if I kept 500k in the bank, that I should pay property taxes on either? Would you come out swining that taxes are good for us as an argument that I should start paying taxes on either of those things?

      Your logic is incomplete and flawed.

      In Germany, property taxes are low. I'm talking about paying maybe $75 on a house per year. Germany is not a low tax country, school revenue come from their high sales tax AFAIK which is okay but not ideal. However, I do know property/school taxes is a very screwed up thing a lot of times. Especially when I see the elderly lose houses they lived in for 40 years because they have no more income and can't afford it anymore.

      I prefer all taxes to be excise, personally, and I support this:
      http://www.apttax.com/

    13. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by rastilin · · Score: 1

      Compensation for what? In the modern Western world, quaint notions of property rights and due process have been deprecated in favor of civil forfeiture, eminent domain for transfer to other private parties, stare decisis, and political connections.

      You're right, things were better and fairer in the past where the king owned everything and allowed other people to manage things for him, the Barons; who had a legal ownership of everything on their land up to and including the Serfs living on it.

      --
      How do you kill that which has no life?
    14. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they weren't far better because it is essentially the same system we have today. Sure, you pretend that the king doesn't own everything up to and including your life because you can't see him, but what do you think the entire government is when you put it together? Nothing but a goddamn king who can seize your 'private' property at a moments whim and send you to die in a war you don't believe in against your will in order to protect his sovereignty.

      We need to move FORWARD to a time where people own themselves and as such are responsible for themselves.

    15. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by ancient_kings · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Totally untrue in other countries. Most countries do not have realestate taxes. I have friends whos relatives in Greece have owned their little humble house for hundreds of years and haven't paid a dime in all those years. Geeez, even in CHINA, (a "commie" country) there is NO REALESTATE TAXES for a family who owns one house. Once you purchase a house, you own it and nobody can take it away. Don't pay your real-estate/property/IRS taxes in the US and your house is gone, so who is the real "commie" country now? Maybe Obama can change this?

    16. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      Jefferson

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    17. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by selven · · Score: 1

      And try building something on "your" property without first seeking permission like a good little child in grade 1.

    18. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by selven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Speaking of 24, I love how the one person who tried to express concern for the Bill of Rights (this is around 02:00-05:00 in the bioweapon crisis) was portrayed as a villain who only wants to slow the police down and kill thousands of innocent people.

    19. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Thinboy00 · · Score: 2, Informative

      --
      The earth's orbit is an ellipse, with the sun at one of the two focal points. WHAT IS AT THE OTHER FOCAL POINT?

      In response to your sig:
      The other focal point orbits the sun in a circular orbit very slowly AFAICT.

      --
      $ make available
    20. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by ion.simon.c · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...and send you to die in a war you don't believe in against your will...

      *looks around*

      We USians haven't had a conscript army since Vietnam. Perhaps you were talking about another country?

    21. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by RunsWithMatches · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes, there are a lot of rules we must follow, but it's for your own good... Or it's for the children. Either way... Government knows best. Right?

    22. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Curien · · Score: 1

      Try building something on your property that doesn't in any way affect your neighbors' property. Go on, I'm waiting.

      --
      It's always a long day... 86400 doesn't fit into a short.
    23. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-military-tells-jack-bauer-cut-out-the-torture-scenes--or-else-436143.html

      "The United States Military Academy at West Point yesterday confirmed that Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan recently travelled to California to meet producers of the show, broadcast on the Fox channel. He told them that promoting illegal behaviour in the series - apparently hugely popular among the US military - was having a damaging effect on young troops.

      According to the New Yorker magazine, Gen Finnegan, who teaches a course on the laws of war, said of the producers: "I'd like them to stop. They should do a show where torture backfires... The kids see it and say, 'If torture is wrong, what about 24'?"

      Every 20 something guy with a uniform and a gun from Campus Cop to 1LT now thinks they are Jack Bauer. Yes, this is a problem.

    24. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by zenyu · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of places in the US with low property taxes. I'm in NYC and my property taxes for the year on my near million dollar home practically non-existent. The main difference between NYC and the places with high property taxes is that we have a local income tax and a local sales tax which pay for the schools. Unlike property taxes, the city needs to ask permission from the state to implement these taxes so we bribe, err "influence", the upstate legislators with a few billion dollars a year in pork for their communities.

    25. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GODDAMMIT! Haven't you been listening to Pelosi? It's what they do.

    26. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      According to the New Yorker magazine, Gen Finnegan, who teaches a course on the laws of war, said of the producers: "I'd like them to stop. They should do a show where torture backfires... The kids see it and say, 'If torture is wrong, what about 24'?"

      I've been watching 24 with a critical eye since the first episode and I think they frequently portray torture as backfiring. The example that most comes to mind is when Jack tortured his brother - this brother told him a "small truth" in order to make the torture stop and avoid telling Jack the really big truth about his and his father's central role in that season's big plot. They've also tortured innocent people on at least one occasion. My impression has been that, until this most recent season, torture and other extreme interrogation methods (drugs) almost always impede Jack -- but they do move the story along and provide plausible reasons for people to do otherwise stupid things on the show that keep the tension high.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    27. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Speaking of 24, I love how the one person who tried to express concern for the Bill of Rights (this is around 02:00-05:00 in the bioweapon crisis) was portrayed as a villain who only wants to slow the police down and kill thousands of innocent people.

      Do you mean when Garafolo's character complained about "racial profiling" because Jack wanted records of all muslims in the area? She was definitely wrong because the only clue they had was that the real bad guys were going to use muslims as fall guys. If instead the only clue they had was that the fall guys were going to be harvard graduates, then Jack would have wanted a list of all harvard graduates in the area instead.

      On the flip side, they could have given her character a valid scenario to complain about, so in that sense they did portray people concerned about civil rights as being stupid and misguided.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    28. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by selven · · Score: 1

      That's not the only instance when she speaks up. There are also those searches that Jack and Cloe were carrying out, and other things which I forgot. Look around here if you want:

      http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=UmL&q=24+season+7+episode+%22bill+of+rights%22&btnG=Search&meta=

    29. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by selven · · Score: 1

      Your argument collapses when given the fact that building codes affect the interior of a house as well as the exterior.

    30. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by sjames · · Score: 1

      ...and apologize later...

      You had me until there. They NEVER apologize. they just act like they are being magnanimous by not jailing you anyway and that you should be eternally grateful.

    31. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by hplus · · Score: 1

      Excise taxes do not work well for local units of government. People will just go to the next town over that has lower taxes to avoid paying them. Property taxes are the most popular form of revenue for local governments for this reason - as long as the property is owned by someone it can be taxed.

    32. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by operagost · · Score: 1

      Yeahhh... I'm gonna say no. Well, actually he might; because it's municipalities that impose property taxes, and he would like to take away all the state and local powers and consolidate them in one all-powerful Fed. Anyway, the federal government does not have authority to regulate property taxes, so it would take more rendering of the Constitution into toilet paper.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    33. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by operagost · · Score: 1

      That's funny, because the USA used to have a military and justice system before we had property taxes or income taxes. We don't need these taxes for simple needs like defense and justice system: it's for the bloat of entitlements and earmarks.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    34. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does orbit the sun, but it's just a point, there's nothing really there.

    35. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, here in Holland, Europe the cops can kick down your door, smash your stuff, destroy your life and then go "well we did, so we probably had a good reason, and you wouldn't want to question our information (which is secret), would you?" After which comes "Who knows what might have happened if we hadn't acted". Then, when you're proven innocent, they'll go "but imagine he/she hadn't been innocent", we would have been right". And all the politicicians stand around nodding their heads and applauding their brave cops. And the judges? You won't see a judge ever if you take cops to court. Every case is dismissed, "errroneously dropped" or "left to the judgement of the politicians". And the police complaints department? Headed by the chief of police.
      Are these paranoid ramblings? Not at all, it happens all the time.

    36. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh dear. You guys all need better tin foil for your heads. Everything you are discussing is anecdotal. This thread is about one case where the cops got over zealous (and seemed a bit clueless) and the courts, as reasonable oversight, ruled against the police search and seizure.

      Of course, the paranoid vocal minority all rise up and cry "it's rampant! My rights! Travesty! Big brother!". Give it up. There is no systematic effort to erode our rights. I've never had my door kicked in by the cyber-cops and neither have any of you. I happen to like that the cops are trying to catch up with cyber crime and go after terrorists, child porn freaks, identity theft goofs, and general anarchists.

    37. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Westcoast70 · · Score: 1

      Oh dear. You guys all need better tin foil for your heads. Everything you are discussing is anecdotal. This thread is about one case where the cops got over zealous (and seemed a bit clueless) and the courts, as reasonable oversight, ruled against the police search and seizure. Of course, the paranoid vocal minority all rise up and cry "it's rampant! My rights! Travesty! Big brother!". Give it up. There is no systematic effort to erode our rights. I've never had my door kicked in by the cyber-cops and neither have any of you. I happen to like that the cops are trying to catch up with cyber crime and go after terrorists, child porn freaks, identity theft goofs, and general anarchists.

    38. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      You may not have had a conscript army since Vietnam, but you still have to register for the selective service commission, and there have been no changes in the legal landscape since that would preclude the re-introduction of the draft.

      --
      FGD 135
    39. Re:Is he gonna get compensated? by againjj · · Score: 1

      Real estate law in the English-speaking world is one of the last bits of feudalism. This means that you do not really own the land, as you say. Instead, people own land in the US as Fee Simple. Only the government has Allodial title, which means that you really own the land, and it can not be taken from you. However, if you live in a county where the laws are different, then you can really own the land. Read the articles, they are fascinating.

  5. if this is what happens when you use 2 OS's by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 1

    the what would happen to this person(http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147959) who installed 145??

    1. Re:if this is what happens when you use 2 OS's by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Guantanamo Bay or the co supermax.

    2. Re:if this is what happens when you use 2 OS's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Your Honor, there were too many operating systems on that box for us to reliably find the one he used for his evil crimes, but we're confident it's in there somewhere."

    3. Re:if this is what happens when you use 2 OS's by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Both. Inside each other. on the moon. Nuked from earth. And then shot into the sun.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  6. My Bad... by LVSlushdat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hope the judge that issued the search warrant AND the police that executed it are severely punished... Oh what AM I saying..This is now the USSA and law enforcement does whatever it wants.. This judge with a "Constitutional" brain on her shoulders will be taken out for "re-education..."
    What WAS I thinking.....

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    1. Re:My Bad... by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      To be fair, I'm sure the actual police officers that executed the warrent were just acting on orders..... oh wait.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  7. Retaliation by StormReaver · · Score: 4, Informative

    IANAL.

    The first think I would do in this guy's situation is to sue the city under the premise that since the search warrant was illegal, all activities flowing from the warrant were performed outside of the city's normal police powers. Since the activities were carried out without any authorized police powers, they were also carried out without the normal protections granted police during the lawful execution of their duties.

    Potential charges would be:

    1) Breaking and entering.
    2) Trespassing.
    3) Illegal search and seizure.
    4) Theft of personal property.
    5) Possession of stolen property.
    6) Vandalism.
    7) Unlawful entry.
    8) False arrest.
    9) False imprisonment (note that this doesn't require actually being jailed).
    10) Dereliction of duty.

    The next two would also be levied against whatever organization the city hired to peruse through my files:

    11) Unauthorized access to a computing device.
    12) Circumvention of a copy-protection mechanism (my user and root passwords).

    I'm sure I could come up with more if I did some research.

    1. Re:Retaliation by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Funny

      12) Circumvention of a copy-protection mechanism (my user and root passwords).

      Report those police officers to the RIAA. Hilarity ensues.

    2. Re:Retaliation by Lord+Dreamshaper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      no law degree here, either, but I assume a civil suit would be laughed out of court. The police officers acted in good faith because a judge signed their warrant, and, presumably, the judge the signed the warrant in a good faith belief that a) the details provided by the police were truthful, and b) the details provided by the police were sufficient to justify a warrant

      The fact that a higher court struck it down is proof of "the system works" and there is no case unless you can prove maliciousness on behalf of the judge (alone or in collusion with the police). Maliciousness *solely* on the part of the police would never fly since the judge signed off on the warrant.

      --
      When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
    3. Re:Retaliation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But those are criminal charges, no? How do you get the city to charge itself for all of these?

      Seems more likely they'd be able to sue over civil charges.

    4. Re:Retaliation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4.5) Armed robbery.

    5. Re:Retaliation by Professional+Slacker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hold on that seems way too circular to be Kosher.
      The police are acted in good faith, because they assumed the judge would act in good faith, at the same time the judge was acting in good faith because he assumed the police were acting in good faith? How do you ever get a mis-deed out of that set of conditions?

      Somebody screwed up, an innocent man had his stuff seized for no good reason (being a linux user of all things). I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that there should be no repercussions for those involved. The police weren't competent to handle the matter and the judge wasn't competent to issue the warrant. Someone needs to be held accountable for the damaged they caused, "I didn't mean to hurt anyone" is a weak excuse for a common man, but no way in hell should that fly for those that are supposed to be trained in law enforcement.

      --
      A Free Market requires informed intelligent consumers, such people are rare, we're in trouble.
    6. Re:Retaliation by Lord+Dreamshaper · · Score: 1

      The police are acted in good faith, because they assumed the judge would act in good faith

      No. The police acted in good faith, period even if the judge then signed the warrant negligently or maliciously. The judge's decision to sign (or not) the warrant is then based on the facts, as asserted in the warrant application. If the judge felt is was insufficient cause and/or the police were acting maliciously, he would have denied the warrant.

      The argument, at face value, is that the police and the judge acted in separate instances of good faith. On that assumption, the police could not have been acting in bad faith because the judge would have shot them down. That leaves the possibilities of the police acting in good faith but the judge acting maliciously because he *should* have known to shoot down the warrant application *or* the police and judge acting in bad faith separately or in concert. There is no suggestion so far that any party acted in bad faith.

      As to your assertion that the logic is circular: well maybe, if that's where due process ended. Instead, a higher court squashed the warrant, and therefore anything discovered as a result of the search. When similar situations happened often enough that the lower courts judges (and, by trickle down effect, the police) should be *expected* to know that their warrants will be overturned, *then* you have your opening for a civil lawsuit based on negligent/malicious prosecution.

      If /. is any accurate representation of the current state of legal affairs, one would argue that case law is trending in favour of the shoddy warrants, if only due to the technical ignorance of the courts.

      Forging new law and/or correcting bad applications/interpretations of existing laws is ugly, messy business, but it's the best system we've got, since not everything can go straight to the Supreme Court.

      --
      When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
    7. Re:Retaliation by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      No, it's linear -- just the police enter in twice. The police executing the warrant acted in good faith, as a judge signed the warrant. The judge signed the warrant in good faith, assuming that the police provided him with appropriate information. In this case, the latter "the police" could well be different from the former. The former are shielded from liability, but the latter aren't.

      In this case, the problem the upper court had was that the actions (sending out e-mail) were insufficient for the charge (illegally accessing a computer system). In this case, the most-likely target is whoever made the decision that those actions were sufficient for that charge. (Realistically, there will probably be no action against the state, provided he gets his equipment back in a timely fashion.)

    8. Re:Retaliation by Jawn98685 · · Score: 1

      It was the conclusion of the appellate court that the police did not act "in good faith". They presented what were essentially lies to the court in order to obtain their warrant. Their culpability started at that point. One need not prove malice to recover damages stemming from negligence and incompetence on the part of the police department, though by my reading of the "facts", there was much more at play here than simple cluelessness. If I were a lawyer, I would definitely take the pro bono bet on the tort case that appears to be called for here.

    9. Re:Retaliation by artg · · Score: 1

      What's 'good faith' ? I was under the impression that 'ignorance of the law is not a defence'.

    10. Re:Retaliation by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      The police didn't act in good faith. When police ask a judge for a warrant, they do not present impartial evidence. They present the evidence to the judge in the manner they think is most likely to get the signature. In this case, though, it seems that they spun the evidence beyond any reasonable interpretation of probable cause in order to get a warrant.

      The judge was most likely relying on the police officers' assurances that the warrant would be issued within the scope of sound probable cause, but didn't ask the officers any meaningful questions, such as, "is it normal for someone who repairs computers to have several in his possession?" A few simple questions like that could have headed this entire thing off before it got out of hand. In that regard, at the very least, the judge seems to have been asleep at the wheel (A.K.A. negligent).

      There doesn't seem to have been any good faith (or sense) applied by law enforcement at all in this case. There doesn't have to be any malice on their part to make them liable for the consequences. They just have to be shown to be negligent. The county where I live was sued by the family of a jail inmate who died while incarcerated. The family got a bundle of money (multiple millions) in settlement not because they claimed the jail staff was malicious, but solely because they claimed the jail medical staff didn't monitor him closely enough. I'm not going to elaborate since it would take too long, but the death was sudden, and due to pre-existing conditions that the inmate never disclosed to the staff.

      Don't be so quick to assume local governments are immune from prosecution over their actions. The legal system behaved terribly in the Boston student's case, and the possibility of ramifications is very real.

    11. Re:Retaliation by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Just because the judge was acting in good faith doesn't mean he should be allowed to continue to be a judge.,P> Judge who sign off on warrants where the material facts, as presented by the police, are true, and the warrant is later ruled invalid on other grounds, should not continue to be judges.

      And, of course, the other way around...police (and DAs) that apply for warrants with untrue facts, even if they're mistakes and not malicious, should no longer continue to be police or DAs.

      You can't just look at the system and go 'Well, everyone was acting in good faith, so it's fine.'. People can act in good faith and still be incompetent.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    12. Re:Retaliation by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      The former are shielded from liability, but the latter aren't.

      They're 'shielded' if what they told the judge was factually true. Which it appears to be.

      The problem was the judge deciding that the facts of 'sending email' supported the charge of 'illegally accessing a computer system', which they do not. That is not the police's call, they are supposed to be aggressive in tracking down crimes, which is why they have to present evidence for a warrant instead.

      Basically, in any abuse of people's civil's right, if there's a judge involved and the police didn't fake evidence or lie to said judge, blame the damn judge. It's their job to say 'As far as I can tell, this isn't even a crime'.

      Don't go blaming the police unless they're doing stuff with no legal authorization at all (like randomly tazering people at protests) or have started forging evidence and lying to judges to get legal authorization to do things.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    13. Re:Retaliation by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      The police aren't supposed to present 'impartial' evidence to get warrants. They are supposed to present honest evidence.

      If they think someone did something, but he is alibied by his girlfriend, but the police think she's lying, etc, we could have, essentially, the entire fucking trial for him in the damn warrant hearing, without him being present, and him having to be 'convicted' before they can search his house.

      Clearly, that's a crazy and stupid concept. Warrants don't work that way.

      There is a standard of evidence the police has to met to get them, and that's it. Any opposing evidence to the crime will come out in the trial for the crime. The right to search people's house and collect evidence is a much lower standard, one that doesn't require the presentation of opposing evidence.

      Now, if police start wasting everyone's time by searching places that they should logically deduce don't have any evidence in them, or if they're getting search warrants solely to harass people, that's another thing. But the DA will clamp down on them before that.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    14. Re:Retaliation by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      I think this clarifies your point:
      As I understand it, 'good faith' shields them from criminal charges, not civil liability. IANAL, etc.

      --
      FGD 135
  8. caugh... bahhahaa (was:Retaliation) by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Potential charges would be...

    Right. You expect the prosecutor to smite itself and its minions? Dream on.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  9. Need Massachusetts tags by kimvette · · Score: 5, Funny

    There is so much stupidity going on in our state, including spending and tax increases in the midst of the worst recession since the great depression, knee-jerk reactions to viral advertising campaigns using lite-brites (which did NOT cause an overreaction in much larger, more vulnerable cities), and so forth. Therefore, I propose the following tags for stories involving stupidity here in Massachusetts (even in the event where a sudden outbreak of common sense occurs, because it was masshattery which got us there in the first place):

    taxachusetts
    massholes
    masshattery

    I hope you welcome and endorse this proposal. I, for one, am ashamed of what is going on here in my state and even as a business owner I am hoping that the sales tax and income tax and fuel tax increases in the midst of this recession break this state financially just to prove to the lawmakers that one cannot tax one's way back to prosperity.

    What we need right now is deep spending and tax cuts, and that INCLUDES firing the moron police officers who resulted in this moronic case.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by Lunatrik · · Score: 1

      Yes, deep spending and tax cuts is precisely what our state needs - after all, who needs welfare programs (only the irresponsible, right?), decent schools (only those with.. irresponsible parents unable to put their kids into private school, right?), *better trained* police forces, firemen, public transportation (some of the best I've used in the country, despite the various flaws with the MBTA), extensive crews to salt / deice during the winter, road and pothole repair folks to avoid soil creep issues, ..... ect?

      Also, I hate to break it to you, but in November us citizens voted overwhelmingly *AGAINST* a tax decrease. Sure, we have corruption, waste and other such problems, but the corruption found in our government is *nothing*, and I mean *nothing*, compared to the waste we have seen on Wallstreet. If I'm going to throw my money somewhere, I'd much rather it be to an institution designated to provide services to me rather than the capital-hungry fellows on Wallstreet that got us into this mess.

    2. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The tax they increased was a sales tax, a regressive tax. (Meaning those with the least ability to pay are affected the most.) Plus, last I checked, Massachusetts was a rather small state and fairly close to New Hampshire, with no sales tax, and Connecticut and Vermont, with lower sales taxes.

      So, to help with a reduced overall consumer spending, Massachusetts decided to force business into neighboring states because it's cheaper there. Brilliant!

      Also, I hate to break it to you, but in November us citizens voted overwhelmingly *AGAINST* a tax decrease.

      Thanks to a giant disinformation campaign - including statements from the governor that repealing the income tax would change Massachusetts into Darfur. You also forget to mention that before that, the ballot measure nearly passed in 2004 - which is why there was a giant disinformation campaign in 2008)

      extensive crews to salt / deice during the winter, road and pothole repair folks to avoid soil creep issues, ..... ect?

      I find that statement hilarious because New Hampshire has no personal income tax - and yet their roads are kept in far better condition and their snow removal is far superior to Massachusetts. Why do you need high taxes for that, again?

    3. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by noidentity · · Score: 1

      taxachusetts
      massholes
      masshattery

      masspanic

    4. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by paazin · · Score: 1

      [...]
      I find that statement hilarious because New Hampshire has no personal income tax - and yet their roads are kept in far better condition and their snow removal is far superior to Massachusetts. Why do you need high taxes for that, again?

      Clearly you don't own property in New Hampshire, otherwise you'd realize where those tax dollars came from. ;)

    5. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupidity happens everywhere my dear, not just in Massachusetts.

      Though we can't do much to increase our intelligence, we definitely can change our attitude and treat each other with respect. Perhaps by doing so, cases like this won't even happen to begin with.

    6. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by kimvette · · Score: 1

      The promise was if we kept the income tax, tolls, sales taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, and so forth would not increase. They are ALL going up. We are going to have the highest fuel tax in the nation.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    7. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by kimvette · · Score: 1

      That is an excellent one as well.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    8. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it's just that stupidity happens at a far greater density in Massachusetts than it does anywhere else in the nation. I honestly can't think of a single intelligent thing that state has done, ever.

      Let's see, in Massachusetts:

      - Truth isn't a defense for libel
      - Lite Brites are bombs
      - John Kerry and Mitt Romney
      - Raise taxes to deal with a bad economy
      - Force people to buy insurance (both health and vehicle), then wonder why prices aren't competitive in either market
      - Launch point of 9/11
      - Marriage isn't between a man and woman
      - Patriots cheating scandal
      - Red Sox steroid scandal
      - Non-compete agreements are enforceable across state lines
      - Sales tax can be collected on purchases made out of state
      - "Blue laws" still on the books

      I could go on. Safe to say, nothing useful has come out of Massachusetts since - well, ever. Sadly, Puritan beliefs HAVE come out of Massachusetts and continue to infect our nation to this day.

    9. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by tbuskey · · Score: 1
      I find that statement hilarious because New Hampshire has no personal income tax - and yet their roads are kept in far better condition and their snow removal is far superior to Massachusetts. Why do you need high taxes for that, again?

      I grew up in NH and moved to MA after college & I've wondered about the roads and snow. I think there are a few reasons:

      • Less traffic - I lived a long ways from the MA border and there is less traffic. But Southern NH is practically a suburb of MA and has just as much traffic or more.
      • Better budgeting/planning - my town in MA shifts budget items from various dept to the highway dept all the time. I never notices that up north.
      • Ownership - in NH, the town/state owns the plows and maintains roads. Poor roads damage plows so there's incentive. In MA, plowing is contracted out. The town/state has no stake in maintaining roads to not damage plows. Also, the state pays the contractors in July (Sept?) for work done as far back as December.

      I think the NH plows tend to start plowing sooner then the MA trucks. There's a delay to organize the contractors and assemble them. I think the NH crews own the plowing more and might have a more personal stake in cleaning up the storm. I'm not saying they work harder - my brother in law plows for MA. I think NH might have fewer rules imposed on them by groups that are not doing the work. MA had a whole scenario of GPS tracking of drivers that never happened that would never have occured if the drivers were state employees.

    10. Re:Need Massachusetts tags by paazin · · Score: 1

      A well thought-out and informative counter-response to a brash generalization? You know you're on slashdot, right?

  10. "prompt commands" by moxley · · Score: 3, Funny

    Command: "give my laptop back, you fascist fucks."

    Prompt Command: "give my laptop back RIGHT FUCKING NOW you fascist fucks!"

    1. Re:"prompt commands" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      sudo give me my laptop back ; get fucked

    2. Re:"prompt commands" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux command: "give my laptop back, you fascist fucks."
      response: "no way"
      Linux command: "sudo give my laptop back, you fascist fucks."
      response: "password:"
      Linux command: [password]
      response: "of course"

    3. Re:"prompt commands" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sudo give my laptop back, you fascist fucks

    4. Re:"prompt commands" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you mean "sudo give me my laptop back"

  11. TITCR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Credited

  12. I wanted to laugh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be so nice if your statements had no issue... but this kid bought the laptop which was taken from him. A laptop is a machine, much the same as a car or telephone, and could even be compared to a simple folder of handwritten notes.

    Since when did property bought and OWNED by an individual become a "priveledge" as the police treated it in this case? I know the judge has somewhat corrected the issue so far, but what gave those officer's supervisor the idea he could confiscate the kids right to his property (2nd ammendment I believe) based on simple hearsay? I mean shit, hearsay isn't even allowed in the mass murdering terrorist military tribunals anymore...

    We treat our own worse than our enemy now?! WTF!?

    1. Re:I wanted to laugh... by Gnavpot · · Score: 1

      Since when did property bought and OWNED by an individual become a "priveledge" as the police treated it in this case?

      Moderation: "-1 Sarcasm detector broken"

    2. Re:I wanted to laugh... by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      Don't worry; it's not like it was a real useful invention.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
  13. Please stop whining, Timmy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "meanie" police aren't going to get you.
    "But, Mommy Slashdot..."
    The "meanie" police aren't going to get you. Go to bed.

    1. Re:Please stop whining, Timmy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the Nazis came for the communists,
      I remained silent;
      I was not a communist.

      Then they locked up the social democrats,
      I remained silent;
      I was not a social democrat.

      Then they came for the trade unionists,
      I did not protest;
      I was not a trade unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews,
      I did not speak out;
      I was not a Jew.

      When they came for me,
      there was no one left to speak out for me.

  14. I smell a lawsuit coming by Luscious868 · · Score: 1

    And justifiably so. This entire thing is a joke. This guys lawyers are going to have a field day suing the overzealous assholes involved in this clearly illegal search and seizure and I'd go after the government lawyers that should have known better than to try and defend their actions as well.

  15. Doesn't mean the perp isn't a moron by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    If he did what he has been accused of.
    And an uncivil b@st@rd.
    For the record.

    Let's not lose that point amidst
    the discussion of the incompetence of
    the police in the case.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re:Doesn't mean the perp isn't a moron by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      To hell with people like you that think that being a moron justify government action against it's citizenry.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  16. It had a battery behind it, and wires. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And two operating systems! Clearly the work of a terrorist!

  17. two injustices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Though I detest the injustice that happened to the Boston student whose computer materials were seized, I equally detest the injustice that happened to the other student who was outed (his real sexual orientation is immaterial).

    One student may ultimately get back his equipment, with the help of the justice system. But will the other ever get back his dignity?

  18. Motion to Supress Denied? by mdmkolbe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    On the last page of the court order why is the motion to suppress evidence denied? Isn't evidence from an illegal search warrant usually suppressed? Is there some technical distinction between quashing a warrant(*) and suppressing the evidence that I am missing?

    (*) And why did the judge order the motion to quash be allowed instead of just ordering the warrant quashed?

    1. Re:Motion to Supress Denied? by yuna49 · · Score: 1

      I think Botsford denied the motion to suppress because no criminal proceeding has (yet) been brought against Calixte. Botsford makes this point in her Discussion on page 5:

      "1. The Commonwealth argues that none of Calixte's three motions is properly appealable
      at this point, where the Commonwealth has already executed the search warrant and has not yet
      filed any criminal charges. I agree with respect to Calixte's request that any evidence flowing
      from the execution of the search warrant be suppressed; these suppression issues can be more
      appropriately considered in the context of a future criminal proceeding, if there is one."

      Remember no charges have been brought against Calixte; this proceeding is purely procedural and concerns the legitimacy of the search warrant itself. If the Commonwealth were silly enough to bring charges at this point, then Calixte could file to suppress the evidence in any consequent criminal proceeding.

      As for why she ruled that the motion to quash be allowed, I think this is something of semantic issue. Calixte moved to quash; the Commonwealth replied and said his motion should be denied. She ruled that his motion be allowed, and she ordered the return of his property. That's really all she can do at this point since there isn't any criminal proceeding against him.

    2. Re:Motion to Supress Denied? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      On the last page of the court order why is the motion to suppress evidence denied? Isn't evidence from an illegal search warrant usually suppressed? Is there some technical distinction between quashing a warrant(*) and suppressing the evidence that I am missing?

      The evidence can only be suppressed if the police is stupid enough to try to prosecute him for something and use evidence that was gathered through this illegal search. Evidence that isn't used by the police cannot be suppressed. Yes, it sounds weird, but it is logical.

  19. In almost every case by symbolset · · Score: 1

    It costs more to get your property back than the property is worth. This story from 12 years ago is still happening. Category 270 in this pdf is 2005 budget of $96K. This year the budget is $409K and they haven't seized that much money yet so they're going to have to find it somewhere. I wouldn't recommend doing any DWB while passing through that county - their needs grow ever more sophisticated with time, and next year's budget is even bigger. "These monies are to be used exclusively for equipment, personnel, and training as designated by the Sheriff." Gotta love the name of the budget item though: "Law Enforcement Equipment Equitable Distribution Special Revenue Fund". Because the sheriff taking people's stuff and money to spend however he pleases is "Equitable".

    Are we winning the war on drugs yet? Or is the war winning us?

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  20. He's running Linux? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    He's a witch! burn him!

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  21. I still stand by the prediction I made in April: by macraig · · Score: 1

    http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198771&cid=27578621

    This is one roommate sucking overeager and gullible police and campus authorities into his crusade to get back at his roommate. There's PLENTY of blame to go around here.

  22. "Serve and Protect" is a slogan, not a law. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    They have long forgotten (systemically not always individually there are plenty of good cops out there) their job is to serve and protect the people.

    Their job is not, and never was, to "serve and protect the people". It is to "maintain public order" - with the bulk of the decisions about what that consists of left to the police (though there's lots of law about what they aren't supposed to do).

    There are plenty of court decisions on this. It usually comes up when somebody is threatened by crookies and demands protection, or when the cops take a long time to arrive. The cops have no obligation to protect any particular person (except in very limited circumstances where the cops' actions put the person in exceptional jepoardy.)

    (It also comes up in debates over whether private citizens should be able to arm themselves to protect themselves. Those saying "no" often claim that the cops will take care of it. Those saying "yes" point out that there's no mandate for them to do so.)

    They now mostly exist to serve government and its all controlling pervasive aims.

    Which is what government power always gravitates toward, and why fighting for your rights is an ongoing matter, rather than something a bunch of revolutionaries do and make it stick for centuries or all time.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  23. As a BC student... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a BC student who uses Linux (and OSX), I guess I should be a little concerned... I got this email... I think the warrant had less to do with his use of two operating systems, and more to do with the fact that the student hacked into the computer system and sent out emails impersonating one of the groups on campus, and the email had links to a gay porn website, and BC knew which student was doing it. The Jesuits generally don't look to kindly to sending out gay porn to the entire student body, especially at the expense of another student...

  24. Misleading comments on EFF page by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    I read the EFF article that was linked to, and it seems to me that it is quite misleading.

    First, the judge noted absolutely correctly that sending of emails from public email services does not constitute the crime of obtaining computer services by fraud or misrepresentation. Nothing wrong with that. Then the judge said "the claim that such an email might be unlawful because it violates a hypothetical internet use policy goes well beyond the reasonable inferences that may be drawn from the affidavit". Let's examine this: The police had an affidavit from the guy's roommate that he sent emails. These emails may or may not have violated someone's internet use policy - but as the judge correctly said, the police only had the roommate's affidavit, they didn't have any statement from Boston College about their internet use policy. The EFF now states "This appears to be the highest state court to address the question of whether a terms of service violation can itself constitute a "computer hacking" crime, an argument that the district court and jury got wrong in the Lori Drew case". It doesn't. It addresses the fact that the police only imagined such a terms of service violation. They had no good reason to believe that such a terms of service violation existed, according to the facts that they had.

    Contrary to what the EFF says, whether such a violation would be a crime is not part of this case. There are two questions: "Did he do X" and "is X a crime". As the judge said: The police had no reason to assume that he did X, based on the information that they had, and that is enough to throw the search warrant out. The second question "is X a crime" was never discussed.

    The second conclusion that the article draws is also wrong. The judge observed that the police further tried to justify the search warrant by mentioning that in one and a half lines someone claims they observed that the guy hacked into BC's computers. That was thrown out as justification for a search warrant for a very simple reason: The affidavit never mentioned where the alleged hacking happened. He worked at a university. He could have performed the hacking from his home computer, from a computer lab at the university, from an internet cafe. The affidavit said nothing about it. The police couldn't raid his home, because they didn't actually have any information that the hacking happened at his home!

    The EFF claims the court was "Rejecting the Commonwealth's argument that the unsupported allegation of "grade hacking" constituted probable cause". This is misleading. The judge stopped looking further when he noticed that the place of that alleged hacking wasn't specified, and therefore there was no good reason to believe that searching the guy's home could show up any evidence.

    All in all, the search warrant was declared unlawful because the police did not actually have any information that would have justified a search warrant. There is nothing in this decision that would be any precedent for other cases; the police just didn't do their homework.

  25. No, that actually is true in Japan by kklein · · Score: 1

    I live in Japan, and let me tell you, that you should never deal with the police, unless you are in immediate physical danger.

    Japan has a 93% conviction rate. They like to tout this as a good thing, but here's the way it works: Something bad happens, we send someone to jail. Someone. It doesn't need to be the person who did it.

    Speaking from experience, when a call comes in reporting a crime, if they can't find who did it (hard to do when you don't show up until the next day), they'll go after the only name they have associated with it: the person who called. Also, they have been known to have interesting ways of getting confessions out of people, which helps with the 93% conviction rate.

    If you mind your own business, you don't need to worry in Japan. Because the police are inept and untrustworthy, no one calls them and they don't find out about anything but the worst crimes. This is good for the Japanese self-image of being a totally safe, crime-free country, but it also means that you don't have Big Brother staring over your shoulder all the time.

    1. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by mi · · Score: 1

      Also, they have been known to have interesting ways of getting confessions out of people

      Could you elaborate?..

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    2. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      They better not be waterboarding again. The US has made it perfectly clear that waterboarding is unacceptable for Japanese people to do.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    3. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by mi · · Score: 1

      The US has made it perfectly clear that waterboarding is unacceptable for Japanese people to do.

      Waterboarding civilians is certainly a crime. Enemy combatants — that's a different story...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      No, it is unacceptable for the Japanese to waterboard enemy combatants.

      People who do so will be charged with war crimes.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    5. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by mi · · Score: 1

      People who do so will be charged with war crimes.

      Well, maybe in the future. But in the past they have not — contrary to your earlier posting.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    6. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Um, tell that to the people who waterboarded Lieutenant Chase Jay Nielsen.

      Oh, you can't. We hung them for doing that.

      Seriously, you think they just waterboarded civilians? I'm not actually aware of any civilians they did that too. (I wouldn't doubt it, I just don't know of any.)

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    7. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by mi · · Score: 1

      Um, tell that to the people who waterboarded Lieutenant Chase Jay Nielsen.

      He was a Prisoner of War. Doing him any physical harm was a war crime — something, the Japanese were pretty awful at in general. Of the British and US troops captured by Germans, only about 4% have died. That figure is 27% for the Americans captured by Japan.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    8. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Doing him any harm was a war crime under what law? The Japanese were not a party to the Geneva Convention.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    9. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by mi · · Score: 1

      Doing him any harm was a war crime under what law? The Japanese were not a party to the Geneva Convention.

      So some other law was found under which plenty of Japan's war-criminals were tried and convicted as such. You really ought to stop beating around this bush — there were seven people captured by the Japanese along with lieutenant Chase Jay Nielsen. Four of them (50% !!) died in captivity. No civilized country has treated whomever they captured this way in decades — waterboarding has nothing (or very little) to do with the case.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    10. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      'Oh, please stop talking about the time we charged the Japanese with a war crime for waterboarding soldiers, because that refutes my point that didn't charge the Japanese with war crimes for waterboarding.'

      Um, no. The Japanese waterboarded enemy soldiers, we included that fact as part of the charges against them as a war crime. Yes, there were other charges, but that really doesn't have anything to do with anything. We charged them with waterboarding, or at least doing the same procedure of laying people down and simulating drowning by pouring water on their face while actually keeping them from drowning. (The term 'waterboarding' was invented in 2003.)

      And you're about to invent a distinction between 'enemy combatants' and 'POWs', but let me cut you off at the knees and point out that the Japanese had not signed the Geneva convention and thus had not pledged to treat 'prisoners of war' in any manner whatsoever. If it was legal to do to 'enemy combatants', it was legal to do to 'POWs'. There were no protected POWs.

      We concluded that torture wasn't legal to do to anyone, period, and that it was in fact one of those war crimes that was illegal regardless of treaty or domestic law, like genocide.

      At least, we concluded that for the Japanese.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    11. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by mi · · Score: 1

      And you're about to invent a distinction between 'enemy combatants' and 'POWs', but let me cut you off at the knees and point out that the Japanese had not signed the Geneva convention and thus had not pledged to treat 'prisoners of war' in any manner whatsoever.

      Japanese' not signing something or other does not eliminate the distinction between non-state combatants and a state's military. Contrary to your implications, that distinction was not created by Geneva Conventions — it was merely reflected in it.

      We concluded that torture wasn't legal to do to anyone, period

      (How clever of you to stealthily substitute "simulated drowning" for "torture". Let's not try to broaden the scope again, Ok?) Regardless. We have not executed Japanese for waterboarding — we tried them for (gross) mistreatment of detainees. So bad was the mistreatment, that 50% of the prisoners have died. It is awfully convenient for you (and other foes of the previous President) to concentrate on the waterboarding part of that verdict, but it is not any more instrumental to that case, that, say, intoxication is to a charge of "public disorder".

      The high percentage of the dead — and waterboarding was simply evidence, that the mistreatment was deliberate — is the crime "regardless of treaty of domestic law".

      At least, we concluded that for the Japanese.

      No, we have not.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    12. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Japanese' not signing something or other does not eliminate the distinction between non-state combatants and a state's military. Contrary to your implications, that distinction was not created by Geneva Conventions â" it was merely reflected in it.

      Ah, so you agree there are obligations that exist towards captured prisoners that exist independent of the Geneva convention. (And presumably the convention against torture, which Japan hadn't signed either.)

      Interesting, interesting...

      So bad was the mistreatment, that 50% of the prisoners have died. It is awfully convenient for you (and other foes of the previous President) to concentrate on the waterboarding part of that verdict, but it is not any more instrumental to that case, that, say, intoxication is to a charge of "public disorder".

      If someone is charged with intoxication and public disorder, yes, we have in fact charged someone with intoxication.

      The high percentage of the dead â" and waterboarding was simply evidence, that the mistreatment was deliberate â" is the crime "regardless of treaty of domestic law".

      So you agree that waterboarding is mistreatment.

      Also very interesting.

      However, you're wrong. Simulated drowning was treated as a crime. It was not treated solely as 'evidence of intent', but an actual crime in and of itself.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    13. Re:No, that actually is true in Japan by mi · · Score: 1

      Ah, so you agree there are obligations that exist towards captured prisoners that exist independent of the Geneva convention.

      Yes.

      (And presumably the convention against torture, which Japan hadn't signed either.)

      No, not necessarily. The treatment ought to be "humane". What that means is rather stretchable. 50% mortality rate is not humane, that's fairly obvious...

      If someone is charged with intoxication and public disorder

      Intoxication is not a misdemeanor. One can not be charged simply with it. But if one engages in public disorder, his being intoxicated is duly noted as aggravating circumstance... Similarly, carrying a (licensed) weapon is not by itself wrong, but using one in a commission of a crime is a separate charge.

      So you agree that waterboarding is mistreatment.

      Depending on the circumstances it may or may not be.

      Simulated drowning was treated as a crime. It was not treated solely as 'evidence of intent', but an actual crime in and of itself.

      Citation needed.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  26. Which makes me wonder by phorm · · Score: 1

    Simply calling somebody "gay" (or outing them as) online hardly seems enough to make it a police matter. The police really *would* have their hands full if they dealt with every time this happened online. So what I'd like to know is:

    a) Who had it in for this kid?

    b) What "important person" was outed as being gay? The mayor or police chief son?

    Because without either (a) or (b), I can hardly see why this would have even gotten anyone to even try with a warrant+seizure, even an ill-formed/illegal one.

  27. Thoughtcrimes by mi · · Score: 1

    ... accusing people of being gay.

    That's an increasingly dangerous pastime of late... Freedom of speech is not what it used to be now that the fighters for tolerance are increasingly intolerant and opponents of hate overwhelmingly hateful. Even speaking out against gay "marriage" will cost you...

    The old sentiment of "I disagree with your opinion, but I shall fight for your right to express it," — is long gone... Consider, for example, the opening sentence of this highly moderated posting.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  28. Seizure Warrants by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    I think it's particularly misleading the way that "search" warrants have now turned into "seizure" warrants. People still have this impression of the police just looking around, so they still have public support - the reality is that you can kiss goodbye to all your electronic equipment for a period of months, if not forever.

    Even if it's not necessary for business, the Internet is becoming an essential part of people's lives for communication. Not to mention personal items such as photos that are lost.

    Perhaps we should call them as what they really are: seizure warrants.

  29. Judge speaks but did the cops act? by sglines · · Score: 1

    The real question is: Was the computer returned? I'll wager not.