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North Korea Conducts Nuclear Test
viyh writes "North Korea conducted a nuclear test on Monday, South Korea's Yonhap news agency quoted a ruling party official as saying.
A magnitude 4.7 earthquake was recorded by the USGS in North Korea.
South Korean President Lee Myung-bak has called an emergency meeting of cabinet ministers over the test, Yonhap said."
i for one welcome our north korean overlords
Nukes test you!
Soooo ronery....
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." --Mark Twain
Weapons that can destroy the planet are never a good thing so long as there's so much tension in the world.
The musings of just another geek and his junk.
Yeah, but it only takes one person with access, opportunity, and a death wish to take everyone with them.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
It's time to send in Liberty Prime! Just need to reprogram him to yell about North Koreans and their "Juche" government, whatever that means.
It might be a good time to invest in all those radiation toys you've been thinking about.
http://ki4u.com/
Its a fun clip that should give slashdot readers some smiles, but
the last line is haunting, "keep on throwing I dare you.. "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpF5-mBmI0c
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/2308/the-second-north-korean-nuclear-test provides a sober view of the latest test as well as other Korean and arms control related http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/acw?q=korean&sa=Search topics.
The problem of world peace is one of leadership. It's not only a struggle for resources, but a struggle for supremacy, which guides our national policies. America believes it cannot continue to exist without controlling others. And NK believes that it must dominate its enemies in order to survive.
This can't be fixed so easily, I'm afraid. It's simply human nature. So it's up to each and every one of us to work towards that goal. I'm starting with the man in the mirror. I'm asking him to change his ways. And no message could have been any clearer: if you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make a change.
It'll be interesting to see if this latest provocation makes Japan finally go nuclear.
A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
This whole North Korea situation sounds like a broken record.
Every U.S. administration since Clinton has been dealing with these sorts of North Korean threats. The Republicans criticized Clinton for his handling of the situation, and they found themselves in the exact same position.
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I hope the North Koreans love their children, too.
you know, if the media and politicians stopped making such a big deal of everything north korea ever does, i kind of think they'd stop... it's like angelina jolie adopting babies, or britney spears showing her sexual organs - it's all about attention.
weinersmith
Whole N Korea thing is something like a troll guy who begs for ''replies'' or getting banned until he gets the ultimate attention.
There were no news about N Korea for a while and bam, they explode a nuke.
Can a country troll? They seem to be able to do it.
This cannot possibly end well...
I hate to burst you bubble of ignorance, but, North Korea's first nuke test was on Oct. 9th, 2008. You know, when that other guy was still in office. And it was in development for a long time before that. Barry has been on the job three months. He's barely had time to get into the front door of the White House. You can't pin this on him at all. Kim Jong Il has always been one to do as he pleases.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." --Mark Twain
Like change is always for the better. Heh.
People claimed Bush was able to stage/provoke 9/11 in just nine months. It's perfectly fair to blame this on Obama, it's all part of the job.
I'm not referring specifically to nuke tests. I'm referring to the threats that North Korea has made to the West, mostly relating to medium-range missile tests. Also, I'm not American and I couldn't care less about partisan politics in that country. As far as I'm concerned, there are very few differences between the two major parties as they're both financed and mostly controlled by major corporations.
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since north korea ignores sanctions and doesn't care about their citizens who are suffering from famine and the obsessive control of their despotic leader, we should give them of something that kim jong il will understand -- launch a missile strike on one of his palaces, and tell him if he doesn't halt work on nuclear weapons immediately -- including divulging information on these weapons to Iran and Pakistan -- we'll have no other choice than to take him out of the game permanently.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
News not yet confirmed by THE OFFICIAL NEWS SOURCE.
See? Absolutely nothing new happened since Kim Jong Il received a gift from UK figure.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
That wasn't in response to you, javacowboy. It was in response to the "Barry's Fault" comment from an Anon. that's been modded down already. :P
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." --Mark Twain
Strange....I didn't see that comment. I doesn't even appear as "1 hidden comment". It's totally invisible.
Still, sorry for the misunderstanding.
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The he only way countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan etc can be sure they wont be invaded is to get nuclear weapons.
It would have been much easier arguing against these countries getting nuclear arms of the west had not invaded countries right and left for no reasons. Stupid decisions brings terrible effects.
I very highly doubt these weapons will ever be used. The only country that has ever used an atombomb so far is the US so i would watch them more closely than North Korea.
HTTP/1.1 400
Does this effect levels of radioactivity in air of S. Korea (or Japan, China) ?
839*929
Hee Hee! Shamonuh. Chickah chickah.
What a wonderful way to remember those that died by kicking it off with the most destructive force man has come up with.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." --Mark Twain
They don't need to be used in order to cause harm. Now, no one will stop Kim from doing whatever he wants. Not like they would "help" them anyway, since theres no oil there, but its a general idea.
Who knows if USA wouldn't have been invaded long time ago if not for their nukes. A lot of people hate them for good reasons, but can't "fix" them, cause they simply have nukes.
every country has the right to cheap nuclear electricity especially a country such as north korea whos people are starving.
they would never build a bomb... oh wait ....
on another note.. good thing restrictions from the well update (1968) nuclear arms proliferation treaty place restrictions all signing states... opppss north korea forgot to sign...
Now that I think about it, my comment looks like redundant. Ah, give me "unsubmit" button :(
64 years ago the USA conducted two nuclear tests over Japan on two cities killing thousands of innocent civilians.
Given that precedence, it doesn't sound slike much of a big deal that a communist bankrupt country is conducting some nuclear tests.
A magnitude 4.7 earthquake was recorded by the USGS in North Korea.
If memory serves their last couple tests didn't generate much of a yield. But that big of tremor likely indicates they have overcome that problem. They got it working now.
Lovely.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
we would have to run the line of succession until we found a person we could live with and then somehow take out a whole mess of stuff.
99.999999% of the battle plans include Seoul Korea as casualties in the first couple hours.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
And no message could have been any clearer: if you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make a change.
In my estimation, more misery has been created by reformers than by any other force in human history. Show me someone who says, "Something must be done!" and I will show you a head full of vicious intentions that have no other outlet. What we must strive for always! is to find the natural flow and go with it. - The Reverend Mother Taraza, Conversational Record, BG File GSXXMAT9
In the Bush era, I suppose I would have really worried about this and even posted on slashdot that this proves how dumb liberals are at reading the intentions of dictators....
but, electoral disasters have a way of clarifying political ideas and I have to ask, why is the USA even bothering to defend North Korea? Since half of South Korea hates the USA and the other half riots at the prospect of having more open trade on their side, one has to ask, why is the USA in Korea at all? Right away, if North Korea and South Korea destroyed each other, it would be better for American car companies. We wouldn't have as many Hyundais and Kias running around the USA.
At some point, the USA needs to let go of trying to run the world. There's no gain in it for America, and the world doesn't want to be run anyway.
So North Korea gets the bomb. I don't care. Neither should you. The USA can build a missile defense system based on Aegis that can stop some ballistic missiles, and anyway has a pretty good retaliatory capability.
This is my sig.
So far US, UK, Russia, France, China, and maybe Israel all have nuclear weapons capability.
There is no reason to invade North Korea just because they are trying to develop nuclear weapons.
There was no reason to invade Iraq either even if there was suspicion that they "might" have nukes.
What gives the right to countries that have nuclear arsenal to enforce their dominance over other countries that don't and prevent them from development?
North Korea has not committed any act of war, and neither did Iraq at the time, let them be - who are we to assume supremacy over other nations and act on suspicions (like we did with Iraq)?
If US invades NC on it's own without FULL support from international community, then we are not better than Nazi and I will from one be ashamed to be American.
When China finally wakes up and realizes that having a somewhat unstable next door neighbor armed with nukes is a bad idea, this sort of thing will stop - North Korea survives only because China keeps giving them tons of aid.
Perhaps the North Koreans are interested in China's continued aid supplies over the long term? As in, after they get a credible, deliverable weapon, 'If you stop the gravy train, we take out Hong Kong, even if we're glass 8 minutes later. That whole "we don't like the west" thing was just so you would let us build nukes.'
I really don't get China's motivations. Once the nuclear genie is out, they won't be able to stuff it back in. It's like the U.S.A. helping Haiti to get nukes because they don't like Cuba. Does it not occur to the Chinese govt. that once North Korea has a real nuclear capability, they could aim it anywhere they so wished?
More information about this can be found on the official news website of North Korea:
http://www.kcckp.net/en/news/news_view.php?6+510
New Mushroom Cultivation Technologies Developed
The mushroom institute of the State Academy of Sciences has achieved a lot of successes in scientific research, which are helpful towards the improvement of dietary life.
They make it possible to popularize and intensify the mushroom production without much effort to suit the natural and climate features of Korea and the raw-materials and cultivation conditions. The researchers there are striving to introduce the technologies on an expansion basis.
In particular, the agaric cultivation technology in a semi-vaulted greenhouse is popular, with which a large quantity of mushroom can be produced even in the temperature below zero.
They made quality supplementary nutrients and substrate ferment with deposit of sewage from pig farms, which considerably increase the mushroom yield.
The researchers have completed the method of cultivating agaric with waste matters after its cultivation as the main raw materials and proved successful in the research into introducing two-crop farming of mushroom.
This method, which doubles the utility rate of raw-materials, brings about a great huge profit upon its application.
It's not good, but all this means is North Korea can't be invaded, and who would want to? Altruism is not a good enough reason to sacrifice troops in a country that would be prepared to use Nukes against an invader. The leadership is weak and in a time of turmoil. I'm fairly certain that Kim Yong-il suffered a stroke recently so he can't lead the country there forever so someone has to replace him. They will inherit a country with weapons, but no bread. How sad for the North Korean people.
So while the leadership of North Korea is at it's weakest, it beats it's chest with it's weapons forcing improving their position of bargaining. This can be summarised with the wisdom of Sun Tzu: "the clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him." and the North Korean leadership is doing the opposite of "masking strength with weakness is to be effected by tactical dispositions."
They are masking weakness with strength.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
They're way too small. They could only destroy civilization.
Deleted
All the nukes in the world (literally) won't do more than scratch its surface.
Best Slashdot Co
I hear a rumour that the American government is working with Exxon and BP to fabricate geological evidence that North Korea possesses, or is about to discover, oil.
This could get nasty.
Oh, of course this wasn't known earlier in the usual "well informed circles". I can even see the dialog in the NKR supasekret mission room.
(cue 2D-TV graphics)
General: Divine Leader, the black man has won the election.
Kimmie: Excellent. Start working on the bomb immediately!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
you ripped that off michael jackson! boo
Most species on the planet would be better off if humans ruined their own civilizations; it's the asteroids and supernovas they're really afraid of.
I knew the Bene Gesserit had to have something to do with it!!!
And we don't have confirmation yet of a nuclear test, so we can't tell whether they're bluffing with a mountain full of dynamite. But if it was a nuclear test, it's about time we break their nuclear facilities and keep them broken. It's not safe to do weaponry trolling of the world's military.
"A magnitude 4.7 earthquake was recorded by the USGS in North Korea."
When did they sneak in there? Okay, being a grammar bammer, but really it should read:
"A magnitude 4.7 earthquake in North Korea was detected by USGS sensors in [some_place]."
Going on means going far
Going far means returning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
October 9, 2006, not 2008.
But honestly... are we going to debate whether a US president, sitting or past, is responsible for the actions of KJI? That guy is a nutjob and an egomaniac and to pretend that he's only that way because of the behavior of the US is dangerously naive.
Textbooks and Open Educational Resources
Only on Slashdot could a post that is half Michael Jackson lyrics be listed as insightful.
Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
This doesn't surprise me a bit. John Bolton predicted this a week ago. "Oh, but they dismantled their nuke program!" Um, sure, the stopped trying to make fissile material because it's probably far cheaper to buy it from the Iranians. And I have no doubt that North Korea traded with Iran for the designs and other essential technology. So in fairly short order we'll have two extremist countries with nukes. WW3 is coming, folks, but keep believing you can talk them out of it.
I hate to burst you bubble of ignorance, but, North Korea's first nuke test was on Oct. 9th, 2008.
You mean first successful nuke test. They could have been firing duds for decades and we wouldn't know.
Actually LOL it's funny you mention that. My mother in law is from South America and down there a whole bunch of people believe Osama Bin Ladin and George Bush staged the whole 9/11 thing and are friends. I mean I am not a fan of Bush, I think he's a complete idiot who can't even do Arithmetic (aka tax less spend more). But even I don't believe that, I don't think he's smart enough.
Also I think the guy is delusional and belongs in a mental institution. He seemed to think he was Jesus's second coming or something and with the hand of god he would smite all those violent Islamic people who dare occupy the holy land, they're all terrorists. But I think he needs to believe his delusions. I don't even think with GWB logic he could justify planning 9/11.
But anyway it is amusing how bad the sentiment against the whole US is in the rest of the world. Especially South America. They're still a bit pissed off over the whole keeping dictators in power and training their armies to murder/torture people. Ronald Regan the hero of the Republican party here is a mass murderer down there guilty of crimes against humanity. Personally I was just a kid when Regan was in office, all I remember is the guy took a lot of vacations LOL....
hmmm... problem is when you ask us americans to look in the mirror and make a change, we go and get a tummy tuck, or a boob job, or a face lift.
As someone who voted for McCain and would prefer to have McCain handling this specific situation, I still have to agree with your point. In this case, like so many other cases, there are no good solutions, merely a few that are that are a little bit less excruciatingly horrible.
Maybe you're just not thinking hard enough, although we can't all agree on the best solution, there are several that are better than letting mass murderers do whatever they damn well please.
Seriously, who appointed the USA the world wide stopper of mass murderers? I would think that if China and Russia were concerned about North Korea having the bomb, they would actually not be blocking action in the UN. But they are. Since they are both close to this insane new nuclear buddy, and can live with it, then why should we worry about it.
It's not our corner of the world. Let China deal with it.
This is my sig.
It's a valid observation, whether you like it or not.
The odd thing about North Korea is that even without nukes it is offlimits for US military action for three reasons
First most people think the North Korean army would fight if attacked, unlike the Iraqi one. Their equipment is outdated, but they have numbers and determination would most likely kill enough Americans to trigger a Vietnam style withdrawal. I'd guess China would keep them supplied too.
Secondly North Korea has vast amounts of artillery aimed at Seoul, the capital of South Korea. It is theorized that if attacked they would shell Seoul. By the time the artillery had been destroyed by US airpower millions of South Koreans would be dead, and probably thousands of US pilots. The US government would most likely not be able to accept that loss.
Finally it's widely believed that China has told the US that NK is under its protection and that attacking it would move the US and China into an open state of hostility.
Now they do have nukes they could use them on US forces, Japan or South Korea. Actually I think that Japan or the US would probably be able to shoot down NK missiles or destroy them on the ground as they are liquid fueled and thus take time to set up. Also there are questions of whether they would be able to build a warhead that would fit on a missile. So compared to their conventional military and powerful allies, their nukes are not particularly useful.
Of course even a few dummy missile launches at Japan may trigger an extreme overreaction on Japan's part. Their current pacifism could be revoked quite quickly and while pointedly non nuclear it is widely believed that they could build a large nuclear arsenal very quickly if threatened. China would no doubt react by building up its own military. So an attack on NK would most likely leave South East Asia looking like a much more threatening place.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I thought after World War II, Japan wasn't allowed to have a military anymore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_military
Ach, beat it!
I cannot believe someone quoted Michael Jackson in Slashdot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_in_the_Mirror). Furthermore, I am amazed that it is so relevant (see video).
Your premise that the USA has historically been "buddies" with Japan is entirely wrong. The USA sailed in Japan with a fleet of modern warships in the 1850s and forced Japan to essentially surrender without so much as half a fight.
"The black ships" was one of the most humiliating episodes in Japanese history and there are plenty of Japanese that haven't forgotten it.
The deal is, historically, if anything, the USA has had a much better relationship with China. We accepted numerous Chinese immigrants and we went to war with Japan because of Japanese atrocities against China.
The thing is, I really don't see, long term, why the USA should set itself up against China. Keep them out of the pacific, yes, but if China wants to play hard with Korea or Japan, then, is it really our problem?
This is my sig.
If world stability was even remotely important we would "solve this problem" like we solve the non-existent WMD problem in Iraq. It's all about oil or revenge (Iraq and Afghanistan, respectively).
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
dude i dunno if you have worked at a big company, but they pretty much pay people the same no matter what they do, as well. except for certain jobs, like some managers... they typically try to pay as little as the market allows, and give as much as possible to their top brass and CEO. the people who improve processes or do good work on projects get no bonuses or raises, and often the credit for their work gets stolen by brown nosing butt lickers who climb the corporate ladder.
I think the difference here is that only a few nutjobs are dumb enough to claim Bush orchestrated 9/11.
Just like only a few nutjobs are stupid enough to claim Obama is somehow responsible for North Korea nuclear testing.
Or that Obama is responsible for the current economic situation, or responsible for "government spending" (including bailouts) that started before he ever entered office.
The more sane conspiracies re: Bush+9/11 are regarding how his administration used it to take political control over the country and stir up a nationalistic fervor and point it at whatever HE wanted to do (ie: attack Iraq). And of course, use it to paint anyone who disagreed with their policies as terrorists or "soft on terrorism". Which you'll notice, Cheney is continuing to do even after leaving the white house.
Not so sure. As far as I know there's only one country who has ever used nuclear weapons against inocent civilians...twice. Yet that doesn't necesarily implies that any other country could become equally insane.
Taxes, health care, and education are socialist ideals.
No, those things are not inherently socialist. They can be applied in a socialist manner, but taxes, medical care, and education were around long before Karl Marx. Taxes are used in every economic system in some form. So is health care. So is education. It's how you implement those things.
You could possibly make an argument that American public schools are used in a semi-socialist model... and I wouldn't argue with you too much about that. But a government service implemented for "the general welfare", as the Constitution puts it, isn't socialist by definition. See the postal service.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Yes! That's the right answer. We need to be strong enough to defend ourselves, but peaceful in every way. People are working on world peace, it is not as far off as you may think.
Qxe4
... South East Asia...
I think you mean North East Asia.
That's because uncomfortable truths on Slashdot are censored by way of being modded down.
The fact is that if Bush or another Republican were president still, Slashdot and hordes of whining, screaming leftist would be blaming this on the lack of appropriate diplomacy.
Secondly North Korea has vast amounts of artillery aimed at Seoul, the capital of South Korea. It is theorized that if attacked they would shell Seoul.
This point can't be emphasized enough: not only are there literally thousands of (somewhat crude) artillery pieces along the North/South Korean border, but it's widely believed that they are equipped with chemical warfare shells. In practice, North Korea doesn't really need nukes to bring massive devastation and megadeaths to South Korea: their artillery can do much more damage than a dozen 50 Kiloton nukes. Before taken out, the Korean artillery can bring pandemonium to the South, and the NK leadership wouldn't hesitate a second to do this - after all, they didn't much mind about millions of their own people who starved to death, or hundreds of thousands being killed in their concentration camps.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Denial of human rights doesn't work, whether through communism or oligarchy parading as democracy.
Once people demand and establish direct democracy and stay active in it, no other solution will come close. The more decentralized enforcement it has, the longer it will last. You'll notice how countries where people stay active in unions - France, Germany, Italy - have less wealth disparity, happier citizens, and have tended to be more pacifistic and less colonialist than the UK and the US.
Marx had it right in some ways - workers must have a huge stake in the places they work. Capitalists have it right in some ways - where there is a sensible regulated market, which allows competition by making everyone play by fair and moral rules, you will have a more efficient economy.
The problem is that for thousands of years a very small class of people has had control over the direction of the world, and unsurprisingly, they try to force it to bend to benefit themselves. Technology is undoing their hold on what can be valuable, and the internet is taking their control over propaganda away. The printing press destroyed monarchies and the catholic church. I think the internet will destroy corporatism and fundamentalism.
You seem to be referring to the 2006 test. I was in the USA when that happened, and it was absolutely fascinating comparing the US news with the rest of the world. The newspaper that was delivered to my hotel every morning had some variation of 'OMG North Korea Has Teh Nukes!!111eleventyone' on the front page for a few days. Then the BBC ran an article pointing out that the 'nuclear' test had not registered on seismographs in South Korea or Japan, and there was no sign of increased radioactivity anywhere around the test site. This story did not appear in any US news sources I read, but news stories about North Korea's nuclear weapons very quickly vanished from the newspaper.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
USSR was a socialist country, not a communist one. There's a big difference between the two. Communism was promised, eventually, but they never got there. Just because the ruling party was CPSU, doesn't mean they had communism.
Can you show me a single nation that followed, or even approximated, Communism? All I see is a bunch of fascist dictatorships using Karl Marx's Rhetoric to excuse their power grab.
What about all those Iranian observers they were stepping through the build process for a little hands-on knowledge transfer. Do we want to consider that at all here?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
get swatted like a bug?
Its really too bad that there will be no unified (peacful) Korea, but NK's stupidity has just about guaranteed that will not happen.
China has a lot of reasons for wanting to keep NK from destabilizing the region and as an up and coming superpower, they may feel the need to take action. I know I would NOT support sending my fellow Americans to NK's aid if China invaded (in fact, I hope we would side with/assist China if such action occurred to help us learn to cooperate closely in the future.)
So compared to their conventional military and powerful allies, their nukes are not particularly useful.
A nuclear arsenal can be viewed as a deterrent to enemy ground invasion. North Korea's nukes are useful for this purpose, just like their massive artillery. With the capability to annihilate a few nearby cities like Tokyo and Seoul, North Korea can effectively prevent a conventional attack.
Nuclear arms also earn a country respect. India and Pakistan both endured negative response from other countries before they got theirs. Once they had them, the bluster and threats of sanctions from other countries disappeared. Or am I remembering this wrong?
do NOT welcome our new North Korean Overlords...
It's a cold war term for overlapping the blast radius of multiple nuclear weapons (such that it looks like footsteps "walking" across a map.) This would likely be the result for a large portion of NK's geographic area as a result of them doing any nuclear attack on the US or its allies.
I think the most likely scenario would be something like this:
USA: Bad NK! We are gonna invade! Booya!
China: If you do, we will demand you pay your debt to us.
USA: That would totally fsck our economy man!
China: So don't do it then.
USA: Lets get Iran! Booya!
Intersting. Do you think Karl Rove or Dick Cheney are smart enough for that kind of strategy?
How about evil and cold hearted enough?
Personally I'm going to have to say "yes" on both parts.
You have that so incredibly backwards the only thing I can think is that you're posting that as a psych experiment of some sort.
Is this a freshman class project or phd thesis research?
Will you please post a link to the paper when you're done?
Thanks!
OK that is one thing I don't quite get. They (Korea and Japan) seem to hate each other (or so I hear), but I don't quite get why.
Why do the hate each other so?
Come on over and "fix" us asshole. I'll fix ya just like my fucking dog is fixed.
>Secondly North Korea has vast amounts of artillery aimed at Seoul
Is it really possible for North Korean artillery to fire at Seoul? When looking at a map, Seoul seems to be almost 50 km from North Korean borders. Now, I think WW2 battleships could fire at targets over 15 km away, but is there artillery with almost 50 km range of fire? Or do you mean some kind of rocket based weapons? What's the maximum range of artillery, anyway?
Thinking back on history and all of the human interactions I've observed, it seems that true violence stems from a perceived imbalance of power. When one individual or group seems to hold an advantage and the motivation to employ violence...violence ensues. If my theory is correct world peace is not likely to come to fruition until every nation has effective nuclear strike capability.
In response to today's nuclear weapon test by North Korea the United Nations has activated their Quick Reaction Typist Team to being drafting the customary firmly worded letter. Expert linguists will be holding meetings for the next few months to refine a specification for verbiage of appropriate strength to correctly and effectively deal with this issue. Iran will chair the committee, and Libya will sit. Venezuela has already filed an objection to the process as discriminatory and inappropriate.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Ignoring insightful people on Slashdot is. Think about it.
I hate to burst you bubble of ignorance, but, North Korea's first nuke test was on Oct. 9th, 2008. You know, when that other guy was still in office.
You should really check your facts before you call someone ignorant. I'm also wondering why pointing out that someone else was in charge when the first test happened is a good counter to the OP's claim that the current test is Barry's fault.
Don't worry. I won't make fun of "you" bad english.
The problem with this idea is that it might get things done. The point of the US government, and I would say most governments today, is everything is supposed to be debated endlessly by multiple bodies. Often as not, the result is a lack of agreement and it turns out that nothing is done.
That is the whole point. You don't want to make government "efficient". The structure of the system is designed to place as many roadblocks as possible in the way of accomplishing anything. The point is that if it is extremely difficult to get anything done, then only the very most important things that almost everyone can agree on will get done.
If it wasn't this way, if we had "efficient" government, we would have government involvement in every aspect of life and commerce. I don't care where you live - if there is more than single deliberative body that is involved in lawmaking it is a system that is designed to do as little as possible. And for the most part, it is working just fine.
We neither need or want lots of new laws, regulations and government guidance.
I think your figures are wrong. When I made my military service in the artillery our guns could shoot about 21 km and they where of an older model. The newer model could shot further and this was standard 15 cm artillery.
As far as I know, battleships of WWII could fire to the horizon and could possible fire beyond it today with better aiming - according to Wikipedia an Iowa class battleship could fire it's 40cm guns at targets 39km away.
I wouldn't be suprised if NK has artillery that can reach at least 40 km which is close enough to hit Seoul if you add chemical or biological weapons.
Yep, the stuff is still front-loaded. Several years ago on Nightline, when Ted Koppel was still host, he asked the retired American general who had been in charge what would happen if worse came to worse and the balloon went up. The old warrior thought for a moment, and responded "We would see a period of high-intensity warfare not see since WWII, if then." I still think that that's the scariest thing I've ever heard on television... and it's a scenario which might yet play out. The DPRK couldn't sustain high-intesnity warfare for as long nowdays, but punching big holes in Seoul would be the least of it...
October 9, 2006, not 2008.
But honestly... are we going to debate whether a US president, sitting or past, is responsible for the actions of KJI? That guy is a nutjob and an egomaniac and to pretend that he's only that way because of the behavior of the US is dangerously naive.
But honestly... are we going to debate whether a foreign national leader, sitting or past, is responsible for the actions of [GWB and his cabinet]? That guy is a nutjob and an egomaniac and to pretend that he's only that way because of the behavior of any other nation is dangerously naive.
...
League of Arab States: If you do, we'll switch oil trading to euro completely, and stop selling it to you.
USA: That would totally fsck our economy AND industry, man.
LAS: So don't do it then.
USA: Let's get... mmm... Somalia?
Yeah, perhaps you're right. But these are people who were dumb enough to vote away their democracy and eagerly install a dictator (Hugo Chavez). Who fucking cares about their opinions?
True democracy is where everyone votes on every decision. What we have instead is representational democracy.
North Korea doesn't have a "government" as we think of a government. It's a totalitarian regime controlled entirely by Kim Jong Il. Anything you've heard about them having elections, having choice, etc., are all lies. The people in the country are all under the thumb of communist party.
If you want a semi-entertaining (if not scary) look inside North Korea, check this video series out
Also, this book gives some pretty frightening details:
North Korea is actually playing a dangerous game with China now. They might even loose there support because of there nuke test(s).
However, there are 50% chance of war anyway. There is a good chance that North-Korea is going to attack South Korea when there current crazy leader dies.
The current status provides no good for South Korea in terms of solutions regarding North Korea.
Damn right so. Nuclear weapons seem to be great way for countries to make sure other countries arent going to attack them and that is probably why other countries are so afraid of North Korea having nukes. I really doubt they will use them for anything other than having them around for defence, because if they do there will be many countries attacking them and nuking the whole place to shit right away.
Its also a nice note that only US has so far used nukes against other countries and then they attack other countries making their own ones. quite a hypocrisy, would I say.
The grandparent's post appears to have a distorted view of the situation. The reaction against the Japanese are not just from Koreans. The Japanese did far worst atrocities (both in terms of numbers of people affected and the seriousness of the crimes) than the Germans did. Can you imagine the reaction in the western world if Germany started honoring they WW2 veterans along with Hitler and erected a monument? (I know I'm hitting Godwin's law on this, but it's the truth) Why is it unfair for Non-Japanese Asians to criticize Japan for having a monument dedicated to war criminals?
>The problem of world peace is one of leadership. It's not only a struggle for resources, but a struggle for supremacy, > which guides our national policies. America believes it cannot continue to exist without controlling others. If your leaders were fair enough to declare it this way, there would be no tensions with Russia. At least, all tensions would fit in a concise dialog: US: We have a right to control everything. Russia: Fuck off. After which we could focus on discussing stuff that really matter.
boom goes the dynamite
>So when you hear people chanting Death to America, its meaning is more along the lines of "Fuck those assholes" than "We want to kill all Americans".
Then they might want to re-think what they are saying and to whom they are saying it.
When some boy comes to my door and say, "I'd like to rape your daughter" when he really meant, "I'd like to take your daughter out on a date" he shouldn't be surprised at the reaction he gets.
>Have you ever said "I'm going to kill somebody"?
No.
>Ever said "Damn it"
Yes, though I don't think hammers, nails, etc., mind too much about that one.
>"Damn them"?
No.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
If there were no wars, how would we know what peace is?
Actually from a strategic point of view, you've got to admire the North Koreans in this respect. They had some artillery from the Russians and Chinese from the Korean war. They bought some since, and manufactured copies locally. None of this was very expensive, even for a basket case like North Korea. And yet it gives them something which can deter American or South Korea just as effectively as a stock of ICBMs.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I have had a theory that the US would not need to engage from a military standpoint at all to crush NK. All that would need to be done is to drop un-ending planeloads (for maybe six months, so not totally un-ending) full of rice, in nice 10-lb bags on parachutes, into the country. Everyone in NK would be so damn happy to stop eating wood and dirt (and have the energy that comes from real food) that they'd rise up. Rice bombs, my friends. Let's kill 'em with kindness.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
It just goes to show you can't take the crazy out of crazy.
What could China do with our debt, sue us? We know the serial numbers of every bond theyve ever bought from us, and we could simply declare we are keeping those payments in escrow because China is the worlds biggest human rights violator. As long as they play our game, we keep the interest checks coming.
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
I wouldn't use the word "admire". I'd say I respect them as one would respect something or someone truly dangerous, capable of inflicting great harm. I do agree that it was a good strategy, from the position in which they were (and are). The fact that they placed themselves squarely in the position of a pariah state allowed them also to massively deploy chemical warfare, which amplifies the devastating effect of aforementioned artillery. All in all, "well played".
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
OK look at this issue at the micro level.
If you as an individual borrow a LOT of money, and then default on it what happens?
A) The person that you defaulted on stops lending.
B) Others either stop lending or slow lending.
C) Guildo breaks your legs.
Now what happens if your lifestyle is say a 1000$ a day crack habit, yet you only make 100$ a day? You are also unable to get anyone else to lend you the 900$ shortfall.
Well lets just say your lifestyle will change, probably with the addition of a cardboard box. Also your ability to buy crack will be limited, because no one will trade with you. Your currency is worthless, because you don't pay your debt, and you just print money of no value, hyper inflation occurs. You are now forced to use other methods of trade to feed your crack addiction.
Colourful as that description is, if you want a macro example, look at the USA, UK, Egypt and the Soyuz Canal after WW2. The UK wanted control of the Soyuz Canal, and together with France were willing to invade Egypt to get it. The USA fearing further instability and owning the largest portion of UK debt (which from the war was a lot) told the UK if they did this they would have to make good on their debt. The UK knowing that this would essentially destroy their economy quickly capitulated and did not invade Egypt. Does any of that seem remotely the same? Sure does to me.
The key factor in distance artillery is barrel length. This is a big problem since artillery is already big, and fixed artillery can only hit things that don't move (like cities) and it's easy to target with airstrikes. So the only use of these types of guns is to shell a large, fixed target from behind heavily fortified lines (eg the 28m Paris Gun for Paris, 46m/156m "Project Babylon" for Jerusalem).
You can hit damn near any range with a long enough barrel. The acceleration may destroy a sophisticated projectile, or deform the projectiles so that the CEP is too large for anything other than "terror bombing." For hitting city sized targets, North Korea could probably build a gun to shell Okinawa if it was really dedicated to the idea. Tokyo is a humongous target, even with 10km CEP, the guns would still be effective with nearly every round fired.
Seoul is so close to the front lines, tactical weapons could be used to annihilate it in weeks. Most field artillery can hit targets 25km away, and NK probably has mobile artillery that can hit 75km to 100km. Seoul is about 40km from the border.
Thirty million people in metropolitan Seoul, drop maybe five thousand shells around the city (one gun, 3 rnds/min for one day), and you might get a panicked refugee hoarde of maybe ten million people in the course of days. That many refugees will face huge attrition in inadequate water, sanitation, and medical care within a couple weeks, and maybe 5% will die within the month. Of course, NK has more like 8000 artillery pieces, not one. So they can use this tactic on a massive scale.
"Terror" attacks aren't designed to kill directly, just to scare the crap out of you into doing stupid things...
Oh and as for the escrow idea and bad human rights.... I personally think credit card companies are a buch of jerks, but I still have to pay them. If I don't I will certainly get in trouble, not only with the one I don't pay, but ALL of them, and any other institution that lends me money, as my Credit Score will be shot (which is really just a representation of confidence).
Also the thought of Human Rights influencing business brings a tear to my eye.
That excuse would never hold water. China has been a human rights violator for a long long time, yet business is good. The USA does business with all.
ALSO on top of all that the USA has about zero international credibility in so far as human rights violations go right now. So unless they want to bring down the comedy house and drop the mike, they might want to hold off on that statement.
Newsflash, there are other countries besides Venezuela. Countries like Chile and Columbia (supposedly US allies interested in free trade), middle countries like Brazil and Argentina (not Chavezlike but certainly not interested in free trade). But there are a lot of poor people there and often the poor people far outnumber the rich people. Here in the US many of the poor people don't even bother voting, in fact many of the rich people don't even bother voting. In some south american countries (like Argentina) voting is mandatory. Every disinterested poor person or rich person has to vote. So rather than pandering to older people with a pole up there ass like here (and the corporations who donate money), politicians need to pander to the typical poor demographic with policies that benefit them at the expense of rich people.
And Hugo Chavez is actually pretty smart (though he appears as a bumbling idiot on the international stage). It's not the smart people who vote for him. It's the poor people who he keeps making social programs for. They'll keep voting him until the end of time. There are many more poorer people than wealthy ones so he is set.
In the US we have a similar thing. In the north generally democrats are voted in no matter how badly they suck in many cases and in the south generally republicans are voted in no matter how hard they suck. Then there is room to swing things occasionally. But generally the presidential election comes down to a few states. Things like trying to make abortion/gay marriage/etc. election issues also serve to polarize people into voting for a candidate even if 99% of that candidate's platform is total crap. So basically welcome to reality.
I'm going to say yes as well. But I think even G.W. wouldn't be able to allow that to go with his Bible he is the next coming of Jesus complex.
Basically I'll give him some credit. After all he did graduate from a good college, so I think on some level he can think for himself. And even though he may be delusional there is a limit where even he will realize HEY I can't do that...I think Bush meant well and was just a bumbling idiot.
Cheney and Rove I don't know. Cheney is no idiot. I think funneling money to is company Haliburton or whatever was no coincidence. And even now he defends torturing people. So he is quite willing to abandon his humanity when it suits him. And like Scooter realized he's also ready to throw other people to the wolves as long as it suits his purpose. Basically he should be Emperor Cheney.
If congress wasn't such idiots they should pass further laws checking the VP's power immediately to make sure there are no future emperors. And while at it the president's power should be scaled back....
What? Like Kamchatka and Pevek?
I'm gonna need a spec.