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Best Mouse For Programming?
LosManos writes "Which is the best programming mouse? Mandatory musts are wireless, and that it doesn't clog up like old mechanical mice. Present personal preferences are for: lots of buttons, since if I have moved my hand away from the keyboard I can at least do something more than move the pointer; sturdy feeling; not too light, so it doesn't move around by me accidentally looking at it." What would you recommend?
Since when can you use a mouse in Emacs or VI?
I use my mind to program. Mice are pre-occupied with
fleeing from cats to be bothered with the mundane tasks of
programming.
Yours Monadically ( If you'll excuse the pun),
Kiglore Trout
I've found most KVMs make it so my wireless input devices don't work. :(
Just stick with Dell stuff, that solves the problem of it moving when you look at it, cause shortly it won't move at all! It'll feel like a brick, so it won't be too light! If you've moved your hand away from the keyboard...well we all know what your actually doing, but calling it programming is a novel idea anyway!
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Isn't this kind of like asking, "What are the best training wheels to use on the Tour de France?"
Elite programmers should be using an environment where they don't have to use the mouse at all, or use it minimally. They know key commands for everything, except maybe when you want to test out a mouse feature, in which case you can't assume the user has a cool mouse anyway.
Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
I use a keyboard with an IBM trackpoint so i don't keep moving my right hand between keyboard and mouse. It takes a little to get used to it, but it worth the try! http://www.pc.ibm.com/ww/healthycomputing/trkpnt.html
I never want to have to worry about replacing batteries, recharging, or waiting for the mouse to make up from sleep on anything as core to my workflow as a mouse.
Personally I think that any good gaming mouse works well for coding. You've got your extra buttons (which mostly just give you an extra forward/back in your browser) and good accuracy. I'm a fan of my Razer Diamondback, although by this point the grippy paint they put on it is coming off so it looks a bit shabby.
I would say with 100 certainty that your keyboard is ten times more important than your mouse for programming. The mouse just has to not get in your way.
Seriously, once you get used to key bindings, you end up being much faster in ide's like vim and emacs than with a mouse (yeah, I consider them ide's).
It takes some time thought, but believe me, it's worth it.
There simply isn't a better mouse in the world. All the fancy X11/Compiz shortcuts you actually need can go on it, rechargable batteries, easy to move and most of all, incredibly ergonomic.
Plus that endless scroll feature is perfect for grokking long walls of code.
The Logitech Marble Mouse trackball has four buttons, sturdy, and won't cause your neck to get strained from the fine motor control required to move a regular mouse. Mine has a USB cable; I do not know if a wireless version is available.
Wireless with built in rechargable battery that lasts several days easily for me. Lots of buttons, the scroll wheel is very nice, you can keep it in standard click mode, or use free scrolling, or toggle between the two easily; automatically or manually.
Fully programmable with lots of buttons, forward/back, and the cool thumb quick flip thing.
It contours very well in the hand, and I really like the extra lip under the thumb. It has some nice weight to it, but it's not too heavy to be tiresome. Overall it's the best mouse I've every owned.
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I do all my programming by floating through a giant VR simulation of the computer's memory with various bits of code randomly located in countless giant towers. I don't see why you would need a "mouse" for such a thing.
First of all, I'd suggest not wireless if you are worried about it 'moving' around with you not looking. Almost any wireless mouse I've used does that sometimes, with the exception of Gyration. (Microsoft, Logitech, and several off brands) Second of all, if you want sturdy feeling, you might go for one of the cases based on the Logitech mx500 (including the G5) or some of the similarly shaped Microsoft mice. (Unless you are left-handed.) The Logitech mx518 I'm using has at least 3 buttons which can be mapped to something useful. (Intended as forward, back, and app-switch. I think you can remap the +/- resolution buttons, but I haven't bothered)
C'mon guys, give him a break. After all, he couldn't really ask which keyboard was best for it, now could he?
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
I recently finally broke my last Logitech cordless mouse, which had lasted a good 200 three foot drops onto a hard surface (dogs, clumsiness, etc). I finally gave in and tried wireless (I hate wireless in nearly all its forms), and picked up a Logiitech MX Revolution. Apart from the fact that I have to keep a clear line-of-sight between the mouse and receiver (stupid for an RF device if you ask me, but whaddyagonnado)...the mouse has been fantastic. It has a shedload of buttons and two, count em, *two*, mouse wheels. Good stuff.
Wireless or not doesn't matter.
Small footprint for usage.
Easy to clean by popping out trackball.
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/2987&cl=us,en
the mouse I use for programming is an older variant of this one. I've been quite happy with it. scroll wheel has nice feedback for flipping thru code, it's heavy and has a nice solid feel.
I am in no way affiliated with logitech, I just like their stuff.
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
I had a Kensington wireless mouse that you could charge while you were using it through a simple USB cable. I thought it was great because I didn't have to worry about putting it in some silly dock and wait every time I forgot to charge it and it went dead on me.
Of course, it didn't take long before I just started using it plugged in all the time, giving me an overly expensive wired mouse.
I'm enjoying my Logitech MX Revolution, has 3 buttons, a thumbwheel and a scrollwheel with swivel(so, 5 buttons total).
The click lock is the best feature for the scroll wheel. I hate not having it on my other system.
I have been programming since 1971.
Back them I used punch cards.
Then, teletypes.
Now, I use a mouse and keyboard.
I definitely consider myself a "real" programmer.
Times change, so do tools.
Quite possibly the worst ask-slashdot question ever. While we're at it, let's also discuss the best mousepad for programming as well as the best type of wood for desks for programming.
Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
Been using one for 6+ years. Won't use anything else.
Stick Men
You really have those problems? First, changing batteries once every few months isn't exactly a big hassle. Second, who goes around dropping their mouse? Do you have some sort of seizures where your hand just spasms? Third, if you're troubleshooting why you just suddenly lost your signal, here's the answer: it's because the batteries ran out. Troubleshooting over. I've used a wireless mouse with my development laptop for the past year and a half and have zero problems, other than needing to change the batteries every few months (which isn't really a problem, since every day I can take advantage of the fact that there's no cord). In other words, I have zero mouse-related problems with my laptop, wireless or no.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
You're welcome.
Additionally, a wired mouse is easier to find when buried somewhere in the clutter on your desk: just follow the cable back from where it is connected to your computer.
Admit it, you don't really want a mouse, you want jedi powers.
My mother-in-law bought this for me when I switched from a desktop to a laptop. I thought it was ridiculous, especially since she spent 70 bucks on it. 2 years later and I hate having any other mouse in my hand. Good weight, fits well with my hand (hope you're not a lefty), plays well with Mac, doesn't eat batteries, has bindable keys, etc.
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/165&cl=us,en
"My fingers Emit sparks of fire in Expectation of my future labours." William Blake
A serial Mouse Systems mouse with a middle button. Goes along great with your IBM Model M keyboard.
I made my mind up about wired/wireless things a while back, and went with wired. For the sake of a single cable, I don't have to worry about recharging things, or buying batteries, and all that wankery. It just works. It sits there. Hell, it plugs into the USB hub on the keyboard, or the USB hub on the monitor. I've never had programming issues with a wired mouse. Mostly because I know a couple of keyboard shortcuts in the software I use...
You're better off getting a keyboard without a numberpad, so that the mouse is closer to your right hand when you are typing and switching to the mouse. Numberpads should be on the left side of the keyboard, for this reason (for right handed people). Take Excel - left hand - numberpad for numbers, right hand mouse or cursors for moving. Sorted.
Howdy.
While taste in mice and features vary, one thing I would vouch for, if you're right handed and have a full keyboard, is to learn to use your mouse with your left hand. I worked with Gene Korienek in the early 1990s and we discussed how to optimize mouse motion. Since the page navigation, Return key, and numeric pad are all on your right side, using your mouse with your left hand will make you more effective for some activities such as using spreadsheets, Photoshop, web surfing, etc. I went "mouse southpaw" since then -- super-comfortable.
Now... for programming I use MacVim and a number of plug-ins and extensions. When I'm programming, unless it's something that's got a GUI or it's iPhone/Mac specific, I seldom use the mouse. One of the biggest advantages of using a keyboard instead of a mouse is sensory memory. There are actions in Vim (and possibly TextMate, emacs, etc.) that you can execute automatically, without thinking about the exact key press sequence, and without having to lift your hands off the keyboard. Check into any of these editors, add the appropriate plug-ins (e.g. "UNIX is my IDE") and see what works best for you. I went from keyboard-only (TurboPascal, Turbo C, vi/UNIX) to GUI IDE (Smalltalk/V, Symantec Cafe, Visual Studio, IDEA) back to keyboard-only for most programming tasks. Now my coding is split between keyboard-only (scripting, Java, C, assembler) and GUI/mouse for only a few environments that leave you no other option (Xcode/Interface Builder).
Cheers!
E
http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
I would absolutely recommend going with a gaming-grade mouse like the Logitech G9, Creative Fata1ity 2020, or one of the new OCZ mice if you need something less expensive. The ones I mentioned have user-adjustable weights, lots of buttons, and ultra-accurate laser tracking. They are wired (reliability, etc...) but you might be able to find something comparable in wireless trim.
Best of luck - a good mouse is a very valuable computing asset.
Real Programmers are recognized by their "smart laziness".
So then why would they be fiddling with a mouse when you can do everything faster with a keyboard shortcut?
Don't give the game away, man!
Works good and is super easy to navigate once you get used to it. It resists crud build up - and it's stationary on your desk. Knowing how free desk space is at a premium in the real world of programming, this works out very, very well. My biggest use of it? The scroll wheel is invaluable for paging through long docs.
While mildly funny, this reeks of elitism and untruth. You are associating memorization of esoteric editor commands and customization options with programming skill. While there's likely a good correlation, one can have one without the other.
On a separate note, modern IDEs, such as Eclipse, require the use of the mouse. I would argue that this streamlines the coding process, leaving the developer to focus on the actual design and logic.
My Thinkpad X61's touch point is perfect. It's in the middle of the keyboard, so there is minimal hand movement to move the mouse when typing. It moves much better than the touchpad because you don't need to reload once you reach the edge of the sensitive location. It also takes up very little room, so it works on the plane, etc.
I don't think I've ever heard of any real programmer needing a mouse to code
Well how the hell else are you supposed to join up the tables in Access?
Because modern, non-crap wireless mice almost never have those issues, and jerking on the mouse cord for slack, or having the cord push back against your movement because you have too much slack is extremely annoying.
I mean seriously, have you used a modern wireless mouse? I change the battery in my laptop mouse at work once every year. No exaggeration, in fact it was a bit longer. I just change it last month, and the time before that was when I got back from my overseas trip in February 08. I use one Energizer Lithium AA, and I use the mouse 8-10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
My rechargable mouse can go a week without needing to sit on the charger, and I usually charge it more often than that, so the battery is never an issue.
Interference for high-frequency mice is either a) happens once every blue moon and is solved by a quick on/off or b) you end up with bad luck and something specific in your evironment messes with it.
I've been using wireless mice since the early Logitech Optical wireless...you know the silver and blue one with massive reciever from like 1999. I used a MX700 after that. Then I picked up another Logitech one I can't remembe rthe name for that I used on my 2nd PC, then I snatched the G7 the first second it popped on newegg, and used that up until a few months ago when I bought a Razer Mamba. I use a Logitech VX Revolution with my laptop at work, and a MX Revolution on my workstation at home, before that a MX 610 with the workstation. Oh, and a MX Air with my HTPC.
So I would say I have a little experience with wireless mice, despite them overwhelmingly being Logitech. Basically after the MX700, all the newer mice got much better with interference, mostly because they switched to higher frequencies. Battery life too. On my original optical, battery replacement was monthly.
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I agree. Wireless made sense when we had to reach back and plug our mice and keyboards into the back of the computer and deal with the cramped space and dust every time we needed to unplug it or plug it back in, not to mention the danger of bent pins trying to plug it in blind. These days, with USB being ubiquitous, and just about every computer having multiple USB ports on the front and the back, it doesn't make as much sense.
Logitech MX-518 is the best gaming mouse I've ever used. High precision, no drift, works great on a variety of surfaces.
When I showed up for my first day of a programming job a few years ago (at a game development company), guess what mouse was plugged into my machine? Yep, an MX-518.
I have one at home, one at work and I've always been more satisfied with them.
I like the Logitech VX nano. While the flame bait of using a mouse while programming is quite tempting even to myself, in a rare moment of reflection, I realized I don't know everything, and occasionally I have to use the intrawebz to learn that which I do not know. Also, sometimes I must slashdot. On such occasions, I like the vx nano. The spinny scroll wheel, and right left scrolling ... lots of buttons. Very tiny receiver.
I think there is a happy medium somewhere between totally eschewing the mouse and copy pasting individual letters to form words and lines.
I happen to love this mouse. have two of them, one for the office and one for home.
I've converted a friend of mine as well. He now has 3 for office, home and travel.
Don't be put off by the gamer-mouse facade, it's a workhorse... for a mouse anyway.
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/187&cl=US,EN
The real question is... What's the best type of chick to give a blow job so you can crack ssl encryption faster when you have a gun pointed at your head?
because the dark hair won't reflect into your eyes and distract you from the computer monitor so you can hack it in 60 seconds. unless you need the challenge.
Evoluent Vertical Mouse
If you have to use a mouse, it might as well be one that isn't going to destroy your wrist.
It might clash with your stereotypical clicky keyboard but it'll fit right in with that ergonomic keyboard that you actually use.
Logitech MX series.
Light, precise, lot of programmable buttons and lag free.
Do not use wireless if you need reliability.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I don't get why you would need a mouse for programming.. programming languages are typed, no?
I think there is a happy medium somewhere between totally eschewing the mouse and copy pasting individual letters to form words and lines.
Why would you copy paste individual letters? Do you not know how to do line selects? It's a pretty basic shortcut in almost any code editor.
Sorry for being off-topic, but what do you guys think is the best keyboard out there? I recently got a Model M keyboard (from Unicomp) and I can't say its worth the price. Also, I feel like the newer the keyboard is, the harder it is to program in (due to location of the arrows and/or the buttons gives little tactile feedback). Anybody else feel the same way?
Oh yes, because only your way is correct, making you a super dude of a programmer.
No, it's not just my way. It's pretty much the way you see any efficient programmer uses.
Actually, the scroll wheel is pretty handy.
Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
"Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
The only time I ever use a mouse is when I'm trying to aim for the middle of a line so I can edit something there (I'm sure real programmers have ways to do this really efficiently with a keyboard but I haven't bothered with them, just using gedit myself). For that your only need is accuracy. How high can you score in an FPS with your mouse? Trackpads are, of course, right at the bottom.
I don't know about you, but most of the time I can't think nearly as fast as I can type. When I really know what I'm doing, I just type, and don't worry about a mouse. The rest of the time, hand efficiency is not a limiting factor.
I suppose some people have to work on stuff so easy and trivial that typing efficiency matters, though.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
This is so dumb it isn't even funny. There can be 100 answers to the question, each of which gives a slightly different perspective, or different information. By comparing their needs to the information and perspectives given in the answers, the questioner can make a more informed choice about what will suit them.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
The mouse was invented for throwing at other programmers. That's why they have wires. So you don't have to get up to retrieve it.
While mildly funny, this reeks of elitism and untruth.
No, it's very much true. The "developers" who use a mouse when coding are always slower when writing code and are also usually poorer programmers.
You are associating memorization of esoteric editor commands and customization options with programming skill. While there's likely a good correlation, one can have one without the other.
Well yes. Actually knowing how to use your environment as efficiently as possible would be a sign of good skill.
On a separate note, modern IDEs, such as Eclipse, require the use of the mouse.
Only if you have no clue what you're doing.
I would argue that this streamlines the coding process, leaving the developer to focus on the actual design and logic.
I'm sorry, but I've never once been sidetracked from designing and coding by not using a mouse with my code editor or IDE.
Wow, a preposterous post by a goofy new age programmer who hasn't the faintest idea of how to actually program a computer. Only green horn programmers (see: script kids) like 'Tardo Jones use keyboards. REAL programmers use FORTRAN and PUNCH CARDS!
are for red wines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
How can I make the mouse pointer ARROW fade away?
You know, like magic somehow?
I am building a kiosk and that pblm is killing me (winDoz).
Not that I don't want to get in this wonderful discussion, but damnit, someone point me to a trick or sw solution...!
Scroll wheel
Scroll bars
Select for cut/copy and paste
Menu options
Setting and going to bookmarks
Navigating the various browsers and dropdowns
Hovering over a variable in the debugger to see its value
Many more..
Yes...they all probably have keyboard equivalents, I just consider them awkward workarounds.
Remember, you can pound in a screw with a wrench if you really want to...
A mouse is sometimes the right tool for the job
Not using the mouse doesn't make you a better programmer, it makes you a better code monkey.
Really? I would also say, WHY?
I use a microsoft mouse... with cable. No need to recharge or change batteries. I keep my workspace clean and just the most minimal stuff, and it's so much better than when I let it be cluttered. If you have so much mess, you have worse problems than the mouse cord. Begin there.
The cord NEVER tangles, I don't even notice it at all.
Wireless are BULKIER, HEAVIER, more EXPENSIVE and the ones I bought have frizzled out. They might be prone to interference with other mice or other stuff. It's really annoying to sit down to work and find your mouse does NOT work, and you have no fresh or charged batteries.
Really, the cord does NOT get in the way. Well, not if you use it right.
Personally I like my G7 because it's wireless but has two Li-Ion batteries that are easy to change. One is recharging while the other is in use.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
Yep, they should build cordless mice that beeps when you whistle at them, like those keyrings I have seen that do just that ;-) For my cell phone, I just dial the cell's number to make it ring ;-))
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
But don't the 'trodes itch after a while?
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I just want to say: WTH. Slashdot, really.
That's what I was thinking: "A mouse for programming, WTF?"
The best mouse I have ever owned is my Logitech MX518. Previously I was a big fan of the regular Microsoft ball mice. I am a "twitch" gamer so I value high performance and accurate mice. Anyway, back to the MX518. As it's optical it never "clogs up" and it's wired so it always works 100% of the time with no batteries and no matter what interference is around. It has a variable sensitivity right in the mouse (no software needed) and has a high sample high for quick movement.
I have a Logitech Nano (VX or something) that I adore. Batteries (2xAAA) last several months and I don't recall ever having "lost" a signal. It just works. Your complaints were more valid several years ago, I think.
I rather enjoy the texture and customizability of the Logitech G5. It's got a DPI controller on the top so when I need to do some precise photoshop work I can move slower. It's got a variable weighting system so you can have as much inertia as you prefer. It's teflon feet are very easy to slide, and the wheel has left and right tilt as well as Logitech's great scroll feel. In the end though, the G5 is a desktop mouse, with a braided wrapped cable that reaches forever and would seriously get in the way of a portable notebook environment. If you absolutely must have a wireless mouse, I have to recommend getting one of Logitech's non-bluetooth mice, the responsiveness when coming off idle time is faster than the bluetooth models. Any of them will work great and have good battery life, but the ones with the nano-receiver are better for portable use, just leave it in your notebook and don't worry about losing it. Regardless though, if you're developing at a desktop, get the G5, it's the best mouse in the history of Logitech.
Virtual albino mice are useful for viral assessments.
Now I play (and work) with my wireless optical rat in front of my Logitech S510 keyboard and shoulder pain is a distant memory.
I hate wireless. Wireless needs to die a horrible death. For a mouse / keyboard it's just silly to have a wireless one unless you're planning on spending most of your time on the couch or giving presentations. Speaking of being on the couch - Bring back wired game controllers too please. I spend a ridiculous amount of money on batteries for rockband / various other wireless console controllers. It seems like I have terrible luck finding rechargeables that are any good and charging cables are always just a little bit too short. (Don't even get me started on how awful the wireless is for rockband on the Wii. When I play at my friend's house we spend the first 20 minutes of every rockband session figuring out why the wireless isn't working.)
PS - I have long wished that the number pad was on the left hand side of the keyboard. It makes much more sense for gaming as well as desktop applications.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
I have the Logitech VX Revolution (not the same as the nano), and I love it. The battery (AA) lasts a month or more. Occasionally my mouse gets confused (or something) and moves more slowly than it should, but turning it off/on or changing the battery always fixes it. It has seven buttons besides the standard right,left,middle,scroll-up,scroll-down. (I'm counting some of them multiple times, because they can be pushed in multiple directions.)
This is a laser mouse, so it pretty much works on any surface.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
I found this little gem at Best Buy (and got my girl to get me a discount ;) and it really is nice and comfortable, 6 buttons (left, right, wheel click, wheel scroll, and a button on the left near the thumb) - I use the thumb button to scroll through multiple tabs in Notepad++..
The precision on it is good enough for gaming and Bluetooth means standards compliant and goes everywhere (i.e. not any stupid "2.4GHz" custom protocol USB dongles or so floating around which you need to carry with you. The MS BMfN doesn't come with any transceiver, it assumes you already got one. I got a cheap $7 pico BT 2.1 adapter (the one where it's about 1/6th of an inch bigger than a USB connector) which works great with it.
I like my logitech MX Revolution. plenty of buttons, and super fast scrolling when you need
Any mouse that makes your hand happy, and pleases you.
I happen to really enjoy my Razer Copperhead, and the Logitech mouse I have at work. I like that they are symmetrical, and not at all tied to whether I use them left or right handed. Some people love "ergonomic" mice, I don't. Go to the store and feel some mice. Not everyone holds a mouse in the same way, so you will want to find one that works for you. You've already cut off many (all) mice that I like by requiring a wireless mouse ... but as with all interface devices, your preferences are more important.
Consider a trackball, also.
"Numberpads should be on the left side of the keyboard, for this reason (for right handed people). Take Excel - left hand - numberpad for numbers, right hand mouse or cursors for moving. Sorted."
EXACTLY!!!
The only reason it seems to make sense now, is that it fits well in the FPS Gamer's WASD layout.
You have no idea how many times I've wanted to take a hacksaw to the keyboard and lop off the numberpad. That said, I never use the top row numbers, I nearly exclusively use the numberpad.
Such a love/hate relationship!
(does anyone know why it's on the right side anyways? makes no sense to me)
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
You guys are arguing like this is a boolean issue. It's not. I use corded mice for my desktops, and a Bluetooth mouse for my laptop. Both work flawlessly for me in each environment. The Bluetooth mouse is lighter and smaller than either of my corded mice (almost too light, as I prefer a bit of inertial feedback.) I've never had a reception issue with the Bluetooth mouse, and I've had it for over six months and have not had to change the batteries.
As for wired, cord routing isn't really a problem if you deal with it correctly. I use a binder clip with about a foot of free play between it and the mouse, and it's never been an issue since. And I do like the look of a lit-up mouse, which I can't get with a wireless mouse. (A glowing, battery-sucking mouse doesn't make much sense.)
Seriously, it's not worth getting all defensive over. There are easy solutions to the corded mouse problems. And spending about $40-$50 can get you a very reliable, very precise Bluetooth mouse. Paying $9.99 for a cheap-ass cordless mouse out of the bargain bin at Micro Center is going to set you up for serious disappointment. And I've found that paying $9.99 for a cheap-ass corded mouse can give me hand cramps. Don't be a cheap-ass and you won't have the problems.
John
On my desktop, I use a wired "razer copperhead" gaming mouse because I occasionally play FPS games and enjoy the higher accuracy and the number presence of side buttons. The mouse is very comfortable for daily use because it's light and slides well on my desk. I think the mouse I use is very good for its technical qualities.I'll say I've never tried modern wireless mice. The ones I tried were the older, bulky models, with all the problems that could come with wireless (lost signal, frequent battery replacement, etc.). I do agree with other posters, however, that even if you could guarantee that a modern wireless mouse did not have any of those issues, it would not be an incentive to change.
My mouse just works. It does everything I want and it does it well... And well, it *never ever* needs any kind of charging or battery replacement. For me to want a wireless mouse, it would have to somehow provide an advantage over this one. I suspect laptop users get more benefit from wireless mice than me, because in their case, the wire and the plugging/unplugging is an actual concern... Me, I just love my big desk. To each their own.
My desk with my computers is always immaculate...I am ungodly anal about that. My other work areas are absolute trash, but the area around my workstations is a sanctuary, and I meticulously manage all wires with zip ties and adhesive clamps. It's not about workspace, I just hate the cord. It pushes the light optical mice, somtimes you need a little slack to use it from a different angle showing stuff to people, somtimes you want to slouch back and pull it back a lot futher than normal, and besides it's just one more annoying cord to manage.
I used corded mice for many years before wireless mice, and being IT responsible for plenty of end user support, I have to still use a lot of wired mice. And the cord always drives me nuts.
These downsides your speak of are almost nonexistant. I basically never worry about the batteries on my mice...they either last forver, or putting them on my recharging stand is just something I do as second nature. And if I forget once or twice, no big deal, the battery still has plenty of juice. Interference and connectivity issues are extremely rare, and happen maybe once a month at most, and I use 3 different wireless mice daily at least. I have yet to have one actually 'frizzle out', even the early ones. I used my MX700 for 3 years, my G7 lasted me almost 4 years, including a Grand Marshal grind in WoW (8+ weeks playing so much I am almost ashamed of it). I have not had a single wireless mouse die on me.
I'm not saying wired mice are crap, some people prefer them and that's just fine. What I'm saying is anyone who complains about wireless mice in general, batteries/interference/etc. is just being ignorant based on early or crap wireless mice, or has a case of the "get off my lawn"'s.
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Do you often spend time typing before you know what you're going to type?
Me, I think about what I'm going type, then I know what I'm going to type, then I type it. Efficiency in completing the typing allows me to get back to thinking.
I wouldn't give up a mouse (unless you're giving me a nipple to replace it), it's handy for many situations, but the less I have to use the mouse, the happier I become.
Happy workers are productive workers.
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
The Kensington "expert" trackball. Here Big and sturdy, stays in one place so you can whack the scroll ring or paste button without looking. Most of the time my hands are on the keyboard, and when they're not I don't want to go mouse hunting. Not cheap, but TANSTAAFL.
off-topic: Code Monkey!
regarting TA: I prefer my Razer Copperhead over anything else(wired or otherwise) I've used so far.
Given, I don't own a laptop, so for that a wireless would probably be a better choice, but I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time programing on it even if I did have one.
I bought a Microsoft-branded bluetooth mouse for use with my laptop 18 months ago, and it was great. Wireless mice, especially bluetooth ones, are fantastic if you move around a lot - e.g. home -> work -> school -> home - and you bring your laptop with you everywhere.
Fun side story: the bluetooth hardware in my Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop pretends my mouse is a USB-connected two-button mouse in Linux even if (only if?) there's no bluetooth support in the kernel.
Now that I use a desktop most of the time, though, I use a wired mouse (Logitech G5).
All that said, I don't see how the mouse you use (on a desktop) affects programming very much. When I'm programming, the only things I use the mouse for are scrolling (when I don't just use Page Up and Page Down), selecting text (when I don't just use Ctrl+Shift+arrows), and switching editor tabs (for which I can rarely remember the keyboard shortcut).
Other than that, if I'm grabbing the mouse, it's to do something that isn't programming (e.g. solitaire, web surfing, etc).
I'm rather fond of this one:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-EM500GPL-Ergonomic-Mouse-EM500GPLLARGE/dp/B00008KWWF
It has a couple of benefits over the EVM:
1) it has a base that your hand can rest on.
2) the main buttons are thumb-activated, which is good if you were getting pain from finger movement.
The main disadvantage is the lack of a scroll wheel, but I've gotten so used to button scrolling that I don't find this to be a problem.
A mouse is a very personal thing, and a new one typically takes some getting used to. Some people will like it, others will not.
p.s. They have a wireless version too now, apparently.
Yeah, the scroll wheel on mine lets you push side to side as well. Very cool feature, but not often used for me.
Oh, I forgot the reason your post prompted my post: even using my bluetooth mouse all the time, I only had to charge the mouse once every three weeks or so.
That doesn't work when your cell phone is your only phone :( You have to hop on your laptop and hope someone on messenger that has your phone number is online... ... assuming you can find your laptop :)
Save from the stupid name, and about a second or two of delay it takes to "wake up" after not being used for something like a hour, I must say I love it.
Bluetooth means no range problems ever, which is absolutely abysmal with "normal wireless" mice (I had both IR and radio and both sucked totally). It has a very decent optical system. It's big, rather heavy but ergonomic (for righties, thumb space very comfortable but right-hand only.) It has two extra assignable buttons (though downloading some 50MB of drivers to do that that is somewhat silly). The wheel moves very lightly but not too lightly. A pair of some 2000mAh accumulators lasts about a week until recharge (I keep two sets, one always in the charger, one in the mouse.)
BTW, the mouse is suboptimal for gaming, because it has pretty low resolution and minimally delayed response time, but I found these not to matter the least bit with normal usage - web, programming etc. The delay and resolution problem is noticeable only when sniping, doesn't affect normal usage.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
If you're reinstalling drivers and rebooting Windows when your batteries die, well, that's not exactly the fault of the batteries. I definitely prefer a wired mouse at my desktop, because there's no reason I'll ever need to move it, but my laptop already has enough cords spouting off it, I don't need to add another one.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Any IDE that require that you use a mouse is crap.
I think in Eclipse you can do everything without a mouse.
You can certianly work without a mouse in Visual Studio.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
No, it's very much true. The "developers" who use a mouse when coding are always slower when writing code and are also usually poorer programmers.
that's false.
In fact, typing should be the least amount of time spent on a projects. If it isn't then, you my friend, are the crappy programmer.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Who will say what language is best for a particular kind of programming?"
Me.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'd mod this up if I could. It's the best peripheral I have ever used. It feels like a big old vintage trackball from Missile Command or Centipede, and it has a bunch of good options for the 4 buttons and the mousewheel. It's very precise and easy to control. Great for massive copying and pasting jobs.
Here's some related desk pr0n...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/simoncarr/3415723327/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/simoncarr/1691475117/
-- The unsig...
But, he does not do C#.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
I have to agree with the "no mouse" posts here. If you think about the things you usually do with a mouse, they're mostly all incredibly time consuming compared to keyboard actions.
Selecting menu options is a big one: how much faster it is to type "CTRL-s" rather than moving the mouse to the "Edit" menu, clicking, moving the mouse to "Search" and clicking again. Not a big deal for casual web browsing, but if you're doing hundreds (thousands?) of searches every day it adds up.
Navigating (scroll wheel or scroll bar) is another mouse thing. Using search (from the keyboard shortcut) can usually make scrolling unnecessary. How much productivity is wasted every day by people scrolling through a code listing, searching visually for a specific string that could be located in less than 1 second with a search.
A few years ago I removed the menus and scrollbar from Emacs and would leave my mouse upside down so that it was inconvenient to use. After getting used to how fast everything could be done, it's painful to work "over the shoulder" with most other coders (everyone else where I work uses Eclipse and frequently resorts to mouse usage.)
... also, I can kill you with my brain.
I'd recommend a Logitech Cordless TrackMan. It has more buttons than are useful, and even has a scroll wheel.
> You have to hop on your laptop and hope someone on
> messenger that has your phone number is online
Doesn't messenger allow you to give your number to anybody that doesn't have it ??? ;-))
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
I was going to ask:
"What question can I ask that so lame as to be pointless, and will still enrage enough people to cause a flamewar?"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Suprisingly it seems that HP still makes a good 3 button optical mouse. http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=2545791&pagemode=ca
Just go to the store, pick up every mouse you find and speak directly into it.
"Computer?"
The first one that answers you is the one you want.
I really am hooked on my logitech g9.
It's got an ass-load of buttons, on-the-fly sensitivity, and it's weight adjustable.
You can buy different grips to get a good hand-feel.
Yes, it's meant for gaming, but it's very functional. Though it's corded.
It's not cheap enough to try out though. It requires acclimation since it is a radically different design from any other mouse.
It's like a street rod. dropped and chopped.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Ah, this is why I don't read /. any more! I'd forgot. Pointless comments to a straightforward question by know-nothings thinking themselves savant.
I don't need to use the mouse ever. Spotlight and expose allow you to never leave the keyboard when you need to launch the app, switch the app, or go to a different window of an app.
I also edit my stuff in Vim in terminal. And nothing is faster to edit text than VIM. Even in Eclipse I have (somewhat limited) vi plugin, and Netbeans has proper vim plugin implementation in nbjvi.
Seriously, you should avoid the mouse as much as you can if editing text (which is what programmers do 99% of the time) efficiently is your goal.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
a mouse that works and has a scroll wheel is about the only requirement for programmers.
Now if you find yourself editing images in Photoshop or GIMP for your programs, a mouse with a tilt-wheel can be really handy for moving around in zoomed in fat-bits mode to review your graphics or touch up pixels.
But generally I think a keyboard is the tool that programmers must be particular about. Generally the less you use a mouse the more programming you may be doing. Programmers love obscure hot keys for common actions, and will spend the time to build up muscle memory with their important tools. A mouse is for selecting stuff (you shouldn't be cutting and pasting too much, that's not code re-use), and you may find that you perform a dozen or so regular tasks that can be done through hotkeys in your IDE or editor.
(note: I use nvi, zsh, gdb, cscope, doxygen and make for my development environment. my opinions are not likely mainstream.)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I have been using the logitech MX Revolution for a few years now and i have never had a problem with it. It has a great feel and with the ability to flick the scroll wheel and spin down a long page of code you can move around the page very quickly. Best mouse i have ever used. I am thinking about buying another one for my laptop. Kinda pricey but the battery life is really good.
I don't know how any mouse would benefit programming, but for serious computing IMO one needs a 3 button mouse. Not these half-button-half-wheel monstrosities that seem to have permeated the market nowadays. For a good old model I can't go past the A4tech 4-button mice like this one.
Pros:
Three actual buttons on top, requiring the same amount of pressure per button is a must-have feature AFAIAC
Natural locations for each finger, without requiring heavy sideways movement.
Two scroll wheels (okay I only use one, but just emphasising the fact that it is *separate* from the buttons)
Thumb button is nice
Wired. Though not so popular now I consider this a pro since I don't like replacing batteries.
Cons:
Opto-mechanical, ie not optical. This is a show-stopper for many.
Obsolete. They're PS/2 only and hard to find these days.
Any modern mouse that had three proper buttons on top would probably do just as well. Does anyone know of any?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I love basic Microsoft mice: Simple, wired, two buttons, and a scroll wheel. No drivers, extra buttons, or other weird stuff. I even use them with my Macintosh.
No, I will not work for your startup
Yes, but there are people on my messenger list that I would prefer not have my phone number.
I use a trackball myself. While coding I practically only use it while scrolling. It's easy on the hands, it doesn't move around (and during long programming and terminal sessions you might actually forget where you left the mouse) and you can program your mouse that for example if you click both left and right at the same time that you want your balls to do the scrolling - in any direction.
I currently have a Logitech TrackMan Wheel (cordless version exists) and a TrackMan Marble.
If you want a classic mouse I would suggest the Apple Mighty Mouse: it has a trackball in the middle that you can use for scrolling - in any direction.
There are also keyboards that have trackballs built in but I don't like them. The ball is in the wrong position, is too small and/or is mechanical.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
That is an excellent point about number pads. I'd love to be able to get a keyboard that had a number pad on the left side; there's no reason that even right-handed people such as myself couldn't get up and running in relatively short order.
While I think it would benefit a programmer to learn the keyboard shortcuts in order to make his or her life easier, as an animator (a profession that also benefits from keyboard shortcuts), I prefer the Logitech MX1000 wireless laser mouse. It meets all of your requirements for clutter, weight and button-ry, and works smoothly even with my KVM.
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
AND... its ambidextrous, which is REALLY rare with decent quality mice.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
I have been thinking of getting an external number pad for this reason. For a while I shoved my keyboard all the way to the left side of my desk so that I could use it in game. Now I just use the letter keys because my desk does not have room to shove it all the way to the left.
I've been using the Mouse-Trak Professional for over ten years, daily use (coding and gaming). It looks awesome, it feels awesome, it IS awesome. I think they even make one with a USB interface nowadays.
logitch vx and mx are my mice of choice for many years. not too hot for the nano.
Forget a mouse, forget wireless unless you're using a laptop.
The best dang "mouse" I've ever found is a Microsoft Trackball Explorer. Five buttons plus scrollwheel. I've used xmodmap to remap the buttons to help alleviate some nascent carpal tunnel symptoms. I own two of them, using one at work, and one at home. It does tend to get a bit gummed up on the trackball bearings, but about once a week I just swab around them with whatever pointy object is handy (paper clip, pen, thumbtack), and all is well. It'd probably help if I didn't eat junk food while working on the computer, and thus get all that goo on the trackball itself.
Unfortunately they stopped making it a few years ago. And when I say "unfortunately", know full well that I refuse to give Microsoft a dime for anything other than Trackball Explorers and keyboards, so you know the Trackball Explorer has to be awesome to overcome my loathing of Redmond.
Cyrano de Maniac
Actually, I don't like this feature. The fact that Logitech mouse wheels "tilt" means you need to take care when clicking to ensure it goes straight down. I'm used to it, but simpler mice are more ergonomic in this sense. I would rather bind "horizontal scroll" to some other button or not use it at all...
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
Since my Apple II days 20 years ago, the Kensington Expert Mouse easily fits into the top 5 best money ever spent on a peripheral.
In case you wonder what the other four are: Sound Blaster Pro (on a 486), 64KB 80 column card (on an Apple), a Dell 2005FPW IPS LCD, and the original Mockingboard (Apple)
Back to the topic, for the attention-deprived, a plug for my recommendation: Logitech Trackman Wheel. It's not actually manufactured any more, but is still available through any number of sources. And it's so robust, it'll last forever.
I have been offering this device to users for almost ten years. For some, it is uncomfortable for a day or two after which users become grateful disciples and permanent customers.
Scrolling can be accomplished using any finger with or without bending the finger.
Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
My laptop trackpad functions as my mouse. What makes this different is that it's the only human interface device I use on the laptop.
I send the video to a separate widescreen monitor. I use an old school keyboard connected via AT-PS2-USB connectors (yes, it works, even numeric keypad with numlock). The laptop monitor is turned off, and the case is open wide enough for me to put my hand in there; but not wide enough to get in the way of anything else or obstruct the monitor.
So, I get all the ergonomic advantage of a full-sized PC with a trackpad. Once you go trackpad in this situation, you'll wonder why anybody would ever want to slide something around on a surface. The laptop is heavy enough to keep the pad still. I guess this might be why you don't see separate trackpads sold very often. They'd need weight or sticky pads to keep them in place on your desk, and it's hard to sell dead weight or a sticky desk to people.
In the past, my laptop saw much service as a truly mobile device; but recently it's stayed "docked" most of the time. It's nice to know I can take it about and use it like a regular laptop. So. Not only do I never want to slide something around my desk again, I really don't want to go non-mobile again either.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
you are obviously someone who hasn't witnessed the sheer beauty of a 24" iMac with an Apple bluetooth keyboard and a wireless mighty mouse.
http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/micro-innovations-launches-battery-free-wireless-mouse/
Cheap, economical, 5 buttons, scroll wheel, wireless, battery free, optical, good resolution and sensitivity. Did I miss anything?
As a software developer, the biggest risk you'll have is just wearing your hands/arms/wrists out. The "best" device of any kind should be the one which minimises the amount of strain.
For the mouse, the first thing is to avoid it as much as possible. Learn your keyboard shortcuts. Reaching for the mouse on a regular basis will only strain things. Placing 20 buttons on the mice will only encourage you to use it, when in reality your hands should be staying put on the keyboard.
The second thing is to get a mouse that places the minimum strain on your arms. I use an Evoluent Vertical Mouse, but I imagine you can find similar (and less extreme?) mice around. I spent a few hundred dollars on physio due to wrist pain, and it didn't go away. I spent $80 on the mouse and the pain evaporated in two weeks. That was the "best" hardware investment I ever made.
Any optical mouse by logitech. I prefer fast RF wireless.
You already have this feature if you bought a Logitech mouse. Just double click on the mouseware icon and then click on the "Locate Mouse" button. It will make your lost mouse beep until you press both mouse buttons at the same time.
A keyboard shortcut can only go so far. Why not combine them with mouse gestures for even more possibilities? Or I've came to like using my touchpad on my laptop to use gestures to do various tasks as I type. Also usually I'm using three different computers at once and it's easier to use a mouse at an odd angle than it is to use a keyboard and KVMs switch to slow so I type on one computer and use the mice or touch pads on the others.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
(does anyone know why it's on the right side anyways? makes no sense to me)
Speaking as an old IT hand, I suspect it's because the keypad is a primary data entry device, which was used more than the alpha keys in many commercial applications for many years. Having it on the right is ergonomicaly right for a lot of people.
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
just ask your girlfr... nevermind. forgot this was slashdot.
i forget
You must go to better parties than I do. I've never lost my laptop.
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
Or maybe instead of trying to move the unmovable thing, do the easier thing and just move the freely movable mouse to the left side of the keyboard....no?
Ever been the guy to take the screw out, and realize all your company bought in the first place was a single wrench?
If you haven't, then it's only a matter of time.
Oh and those awkward workarounds could make you 100% more profitable, if used correctly. I'm not saying I'm the keyboard wizard myself, but it's hard to beat proficiency ratings.
Yeah, there's an emacs command to do that, good 'ol C-x M-c M-giantVRsimulation:)
Two main mouse buttons, a scroll wheel that also tilts and acts as button #3, and two convenient thumb buttons on the side. I have two now, one for the desktop and one for the laptop. Say what you will about their OS division, but MS makes (or puts their name on, anyway) damn fine hardware.
I've recently gone through a mouse buying binge. Most of them have a right handed ergo shape, I use the mouse with my right hand, so it's not an issue for me. My hands/fingers are probably larger than average, but I use a claw grip, so most most sizes work fine. Strangely I hadn't ever really noticed there were categories of mouse gripping before starting this odyssey.
I started with a somewhat ancient but excellent:
Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Which I had recently replaced the buttons on. As a result it was feeling just a bit off, brand new buttons are harder to press. Also my desktop resolution had increased from 3200x1200 in 2002, to around 6500x1600 today. And I knew a higher DPI mouse would speed up navigation around the larger space. So I decided it was finally time to go mouse shopping.
I tried, in order:
Razor Deathadder
Logitech G9
Logitech VX Nano(this one is left handed friendly)
Logitech MX 518
Logitech MX 1100
Logitech VX Revolution
Criterion for selecting the above, were either wired, or if wireless, a multi-month battery life with user replaceable standard(aa or aaa) batteries. I mostly use low self discharge(Sanyo Eneloop) NiMH batteries in the cordless mice, and they do last 2+ months without needing a recharge. The lack of user replaceable batteries ruled out the MX Revolution, which I otherwise probably would've given a try.
The Deathadder: Nirvana, if I'd stopped here, I would've thought it was perfect. This mouse is super comfortable, and awesome for long term use. It's nearly identical in shape to the IE 3.0, so the learning curve was virtually nil. I immediately noticed an advantage to the higher DPI, especially on the desktop, but, not as noticeable when gaming. The only slight problem was the scroll wheel, it feels a bit rougher, than the old, well broken in, IE 3.0 scroll wheel. But... I had already ordered a G9 before I received it, so the saga continues.
The G9: Nirvana++ but with one large annoyance. It looks very different compared to the IE 3.0, but with a claw grip, it feels similar enough. And I found it very comfortable for long term use. It's ++, a free scroll capable scroll wheel, which I immediately fell in love with. The on the fly DPI switching is nice, but I pretty much found the fastest that was not too fast, and stuck with it. The large annoyance with the G9, the middle mouse button is entirely too hard to press, both in desktop apps(opening new tabs in a browser), and games(selecting menu items and such). Another note on this mouse, I found the precision grip body to be very abrasive feeling, it feels like sandpaper to me. But I've had other people try it without issue, so it must be me. Luckily, the default wide grip doesn't have that issue. I haven't messed with the weights, the default weight seemed fine to me.
So at this point I had a clearly defined goal, a comfy mouse with a free scrolling scroll wheel, that doesn't take extreme force to click, so on with the search.
The VX Nano: This mouse has a separate middle button, which is nice and easy to press. Instead of acting as a button, pressing the scroll wheel, allows you to enable/disable free scrolling. This mouse is quite comfy, and in general lives up to the 4.5-5 star reviews it has received everywhere. Problems, it takes me a minute or 2 to retrain myself when I switch between it, and a mouse with a clickable scroll wheel. The forward and back buttons are in a sub optimal location, not a big issue for me, since I almost never use them. Though I really should start using them. The main reason I never got used to them was due to the use of a KVM switch that only emulated a 3 button mouse for the last 6+ years. The nano receiver is really nice, plug it into your laptop and forget it. So I stuck it on my personal laptop, and bought a second one, which I used it with my desktop for a few weeks, while I waited for something else to go on sale. I currently use the second one with my wor
You're better off getting a keyboard without a numberpad, so that the mouse is closer to your right hand when you are typing and switching to the mouse.
I totally agree on this, but what I recently discovered is that there are no affordable curved keyboards such as this one from MS available.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Bought my girlfriend an IBM USB keyboard with Ultranav, which is just the silly marketdroid name for the pointer stick. This is about the most effective way to avoid moving your hands off the keyboard, short of a head-mouse. I bought one for my girlfriend with RSI. She also has a SmartNav head mouse, but she uses the *keyboard*!
http://amzn.com/B00009APTK
You'll probably reduce your movement of hands off the keyboard by a factor of 3, at least!
Screw the mouse! Just about any programming task that might use a mouse can be done more quickly (and less irritatingly) with a keyboard once you learn how. My optimum setup is a Kinesis Advantage keyboard, paired with a Wacom tablet.
While pricy, I've found the Kinesis to be worth every penny. The plethora of thumb keys allows me to keep not only my hands at the keyboard, but also my fingers positioned at the home row. No big moves for backspace, delete, page up/down, home. Ctrl and Alt are also thumb keys, eliminating the little Cut/Copy/Paste dance. The keys are also closer together, ergonomically positioned, and have delightful response. My only complaint is that the ESC and the Function keys are tiny little rubber buttons on top. Still, compared to the standard, and even "natural" layouts, it's far, far superior imho.
But I digress. Next comes the usefulness of the Wacom tablet. While excellent for graphical apps, I've found it exceptionally poor for programming-type tasks. Which is why I use it. The sheer irritation of having to move my hand, pick up the pen (if I can locate it!), hover over the pad to find the pointer on screen, do my business, then set the pen down before returning the keyboard is motivation enough for me to learn, remember, and use keyboard shortcuts as often as possible. A bit painful for the first few days, but a huge time saver in the long run. Any minor task that I might otherwise use the mouse for, after using it once or twice I'll be giddy to find a keyboard replacement.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
I expected you to said that you did not know your own phone number because you never dial it ;-))
O.K. lets settle for this then:
> You have to hop on your laptop and hope someone on
> messenger that you want to give your phone number to is
> online
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
A classic tale:
Me: Type dir then enter
User: it says bad command or filename
Me: huh? retype it. dir then enter.
User: it says bad command or filename
Me: Type this exactly, D-I-R then hit the enter key.
User: OH! I was typing in direnter.
"Good news, everyone!"
I've witnessed that, and I found it to be sheer crap, not beauty. Give me a MS Natural keyboard and Bluetooth mouse any day. The "Mighty" mouse is too touchy, if you have a finger resting anywhere on the left hand side it thinks every click is a left-click, and it just doesn't have enough buttons anyway. As for the Apple keyboard, it has no number pad, which is horrible, and is also missing a whole lot of keys that Apple have just decided that you don't need, such as a delete key. Cmd-Backspace is not a decent alternative.
Are there any other applications that offers similar functionality to emacs' secondary selection?
When programming, I'm mostly using the keyboard. So the most important feature for mouse is that it's very fast to switch between mouse and a keyboard. The integrated touchpad of my laptop wins any external mouse on this.
When you code, at least when you do things like I do, that is, you are using vim and a lot of xterms, it's best to have something that enables you to move your pointer without you having to move your hand a lot. What I have at work is a Thinkpad keyboard (Lenovo/IBM make those) which has a pointing stick in the middle. It's not made for accuracy (for that I have a separate mouse next to the keyboard. Which is a simple Razer Copperhead gaming mouse. The point is, you shouldn't have to move your hands too much when you code. Especially when all you do is changing xterm.
For those that use other development environments the answer may be different.
Why, I'm right handed and don't use the numberpad often (it's been a while since I played nethack I confess). I want to rest my right hand on the mouse. Right now that means having my right arm at an unergonomic angle.
Remember originally the numberpad doubled as cursors, and there was no middle cursor area on keyboards. The numberpad was what you controlled the screen with, and it was right by your right hand when typing, a quick movement.
Then the cursors got added, and the upside-down T shape is required - note to all the keyboard manufacturers who think a diamond pattern is in any way reasonable. This means one use of the numberpad was eradicated, and now it exists as a large area dedicated for accountancy use. What a waste of space.
Yet keyboards that remove the numberpad often compress the cursors and other keys into the main keyboard, or otherwise compromise the main keyboard. It's depressing really.
There is a reason why there is no such things as programming mouses...because programmers rarely using mice...
A better solution would be to learn how to use keyboard shortcuts.
Nano VX has a wheel and a separate middle button -- pressing on the wheel switches between clicking and smooth scroll modes.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I'm happy with 2 buttons and a gesture utility (StrokeIt for Windows, xGestures for Mac OS X) especially when combined with a macro utility (QuicKeys for Mac OS X).
clitmouse.
It's not a mouse really it's a trackball, and it's not wireless, but it is the best pointing device I've used for programming.
I like to keep my eyes on the code, and I use vim so I don't reach for the mouse a lot, but when I do I want to find it in the same place on my workstation every time. That's the best thing about a trackball, they don't move, the wires don't move and don't get snagged or tangled so who needs to mess with batteries or recharging. Give that ball a flick and the pointer scoots across the screen, so much better than doing push, lift, pull, drop circles with my poor old wrists.
Long time ago when I worked on Windows I used all four big buttons programmed for click, double click, hold down, and left click. Now I work in KDE, use the mouse much less, and almost never double click.
If you can find one get the old Expert Mouse. The new Expert Mouse Pro has extra buttons and a wheel and has suffered much cost reduction, it's is cheap crap compared to the original.
An important thing to remember, mice are for poking and hoping, exploring programs you have not seen before, when you know what you are doing working with a mouse versus a keyboard is like pointing and grunting versus fluent conversation.
It took a real world war to end the airplane's patent wars. - Fâché Rouge -
If you need a mouse you're doing it wrong.
You make a good point, but I think you misinterpreted mine. In Eclipse I do not go the Edit->Search to search. I go to Ctrl-F to do that. The difference, in my mind, is that Eclipse has a more comprehensive set of functionality, much of which does streamline the coding process. It seems that these are the ones that one has to use a mouse for.
There are some tasks that, for sure, the mouse is better suited for. For example, instead of typing Ctrl+B, , TAB, ENTER, I can click on the tab that I already see. Another example is highlighting. If I wanted to search for something I see on the screen, I shouldn't have to type it in, nor should I have to navigate to it in some other fashion first.
But that's all examples besides the point. The point is the GP absurdly trolled to disqualify users of modern IDEs. While I agree that in depth knowledge of vi or Emacs is usually indicative of programming skill, usage of Eclipse or Visual Studio is not indicative of the lack of similar skill.
I use a Contour Roller Mouse and like it very much. It takes a bit of getting used to since its motion is somewhat different than a conventional mouse or trackball. This keeps my hands close to the keyboard at all times. The newer models have a number of buttons. I originally got it on the advice of an industrial ergonomist to address shoulder and neck pain from long hours at the computer (something that it has, indeed, improved significantly), but now find that I am more productive in all applications except CAD and graphics work. It is a bit expensive, but constitutes an interesting alternative.
I use a mouse to get from window to window sometimes, but most of the time I use hot keys in my editor. I guess no mouse at all is really required.
Even john Guber, a mac user, sais, " every time you move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse, god kills a hamster." It might have been someone a different mac programmer . Any way, EVERY IDE, and programmers text editor makes provisions for you to use the mouse as little as possible: from allowing EMACS or VI(M) bindings or just having good keybindings in the first place.
I can't stand the lag on wireless mice, so I never touch them if I can avoid it.
But anyway, if you are using a mouse for development you are probably doing it wrong. Keep your hands on the keyboard as much as possible. Learn how to do everything from the keyboard. Reaching for the mouse is a cache miss, and it is going to be at least an order of magnitude slower than performing the same action with keyboard shortcuts. Really, it's true. If you have a local Emacs or vi guru, watch him/her and see how fast they go. The editor becomes and extension of the body, kind of like driving a car.
Unfortunately, a lot of IDEs have very fundamental flaws requiring the mouse, or discouraging the keyboard. One of the best, and most common examples of this is the search dialog box. If and editor brings up a new little window for search, rather than an integrated one, find a new editor because that one is crap. It's slow, meaning you can't hit ctrl+f or whatever and immediately type your search in because there is a delay. It also has focus issues. And it probably doesn't search incrementally either.
I switched to a trackball at home and love it. Considering picking one up at work. No real need for wireless with a trackball as you don't move the device. No huge mousepad needed. Fits next to my huge IBM Model M keyboard and takes up a little less space that a slim keyboard and normal mouse. There is a bit of a learning curve, but once you get used to it there is no going back. Haven't yet tested it with games, but that isn't really my main concern as I've been playing my PS3 and Wii more of late anyways. It's also REALLY funny when people try to use my computer. :D
The Revolution has that feature, too (scroll one increment at a time versus a smoothly spinning scroll wheel, if I understand you). But I'm talking about the "tilt wheel", where you can use it to scroll left and right, in addition to up and down. I don't like tilt wheels, because they make it slightly harder to perform a middle click. This matters more on Unix than on Windows, because middle clicking is more common on Unix.
In fact, if I could find this mouse without the tilt wheel, I'd be really tempted to buy another to replace my current VX. I could bind other buttons to do horizontal scrolling, if I wanted it.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
...for programming, but for everyday tasks (which include pouring down code), i keep coming back to the Microsoft basic optical mouse. Very cheap, rugged, accurate and damn comfortable.
I know bashing Microsoft is sort of a recreational activity here, but they sure sell some nice hardware.
I love my mouse. I play starcraft and it's great for that, and I customize it and make it do a lot of stuff. But some of the things on your list, I just couldn't let slide:
- scroll bars in programming are totally useless. Page Up / Page Down, various shortcuts in vim and Emacs make them basically obsolete. Interactive search and proper knowledge of navigation techniques including setting bookmarks in your code is WAAAY more efficient than scrolling
- select for cut/copy and paste. Try learning VIM, seriously.
- menu options. This is my biggest objection. Shortcuts!! In well designed menus they're listed right next to the menu item
- setting and going to bookmarks - firefox has a great way of handling this. You add keywords to your bookmarks and then just type them in. I got $10 that says I can Ctrl+L + + Enter faster than you can click on your bookmarks
I strongly recommend the pandimensional mice who had the earth ordered to the Magratheans. Their grasp on all things technological is unmatched, just don't let them talk you into selling them your brain - the replacement brain they'll try to push on you is a low-end model that can only say What? and Where's the tea?
I meant Bookmarks in the IDE, not the web browser.
I use all of the available tools, including scroll bars. I like scroll bars. I like the wheel even more.
Years ago, we used to joke that VI is the only text editor approved for use by the Turkish Penal System as a torture device. Seriously, it feels like going back in time to the 70s. Why not go all the way back to punch cards?
If I was forced to use VI, I would quit programming.
If possible lose the mouse. Programming is always faster when time lost moving your hand between the mouse and keyboard is eliminated. Try using Vim or Emacs and learn the hotkeys. You'll be quick in no time and learn some great text-wrangling.
I am developing a Kinetica OmniHamsterMouse, that uses small coils and weights that function as a little dynamo to charge the battery. It has a (detachable) USB wire as well, so any excess power generated by violent Hamstermouse moves will charge a laptop battery. Additional solarpanels can be placed on top of the mouse, so when your hand is on your keyboard (or somewhere else), the last bit of light in your room is captured to charge the battery ! Inside the HamsterMouse, you can replace the optical sensor module with a HamsterRunningWheel (tm) and actually place a small hamster with GPS in it, so it will act as a sort of powersteering for your crazy mousemoves.. no more RSI ! Of course it comes with sedative pills to keep the hamster from running amok. Modulair hydrogen and -nuclear power units are being developed, so you will no more risk running out of power! If you place orders now, you will receive 2 genuine OldSchoolMice. You know, the ones they used back in 2008. Always works!
I use Wacom's smallest tablet (so I can reach any part of my screen without having to move my arm too much). I hold the pen in my hand even while typing since I don't use my right index finger for typing (I'm a quick 4 finger typist).
Anyway, I find it really easy to highlight lines of text. It also has 2 programmable buttons on the pen plus 4 programmable buttons on the tablet.
Most people give up too quickly on tablets. Making the switch will absolutely slow you down for a week or two, but once you get used to it, you'll never use a mouse again.
People who say "money does not buy happiness" are just people without money trying to make themselves feel better.
For programming, use vim and stay away from the mouse. For general use, though, I'd go with one of these: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/trackballs/devices/166&cl=us,en
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?
Last for three days straight of very hard use without needing the recharging cradle, that is.
I place it in it's recharging cradle every night - and missing one or two isn't a problem.
Since the "middle" button is not the wheel and switching modes happens very rarely, there is no need to avoid tilting the wheel while you press on it -- because you almost never press on the wheel in the first place!
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Since this thread is recognizing the 'real' question, I'll add one of the Kensington Trackballs to the list.
It doesn't matter that it's wired because you never move it. It's always where you expect it, it works with large hands, saves on RSI, has lots of buttons, a scroller, and these days they're optical and USB.
I hate mouses.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Thank you for the correction, I understand now. Which button performs a middle click? That is, where is "button 2" located? I can't easily reprogram mice, but if there is a "middle click" button in the mouse's default configuration, the Nano may be a big improvement over the VX Revolution.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
Favourite mouse I've ever used: Razer Diamondback.
It's exactly the opposite of everything you think you need, but probably difficult to find anything better.
Light, well balanced, has a nice thin cord, so you don't notice it's there, but still don't have to deal with wireless lag/dead batteries.
Stay away from the lachesis though. I got one of those, and it's junk compared to my old Diamondback. Tracking issues, and problems with the wheel/centre button. Twice the $, and I'd trade it for another diamondback any day.
Also, don't overlook the importance of a good keyboard. It'll make way more difference than your mouse. My favourite cheap(ish) board is the fujitsu 4725 (or 4726, etc.). If you're willing to spend the $, something with cherry microswitches is best. one of the Das Keyboards, or if you like to code in the dark, Deck legend. I have one of those and it's great. Unfortunately they only have the red with linear keys.. It's easiest on the eyes in the dark, unlike the overrated retina scorching fugly blue that's so popular lately. I'd like to get another one with the tactile keys, but I've either gotta wait until they have them in red or green, or I'm going to have to transplant the diodes myself (btw, they have the schematic for download, and don't void your warranty if your mods are competent)
It's the button aligned with the wheel, closer to the back of the mouse. Wheel is small enough for the finger to easily switch between wheel and the button. Pressing the wheel switches the smooth mode on and off mechanically and is not recognized as any kind of input.
There are also two "forward/back" buttons on the left edge of the mouse, I map them to forward/back browser history but end up using them very rarely.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I prefer the types that charge via swappable battery packs. You just hit a button, and it pops out, then you replace it with one in the receiver- have to do it once a day, but it easily charges in that time.
I agree that wireless keyboards are mostly pointless- but I like wireless mice because with wired you constantly have to adjust that cord, and it kind of pulls on the mouse at certain angles, and you have to keep your computer closer to you in order to keep it plugged in in many cases. I agree that double-a and regular rechargeable mice are crap. I like the ones that have their own type of battery pack. It comes with two, and you just swpa em out every so often.
On a separate note, modern IDEs, such as Eclipse, require the use of the mouse. I would argue that this streamlines the coding process, leaving the developer to focus on the actual design and logic.
Any tool that requires you to use it in a particular way is just plain broken. I should be able to dictate to the tool how I will use it, not the other way around.
What's so great about a poorly thought out mouse that's effectively single-button, and probably the worst non-laptop keyboard made in the past 20 years?
There's really no reason that the mouse has to be to the side of the keyboard. I find it comfortable to push the keyboard back a bit and use the mouse in front of the keyboard. This seems to be more ergonomic - though usually this means you're using it at an angle relative to the screen so you may have to get used to that. The only problem I find is sometimes the mouse gets in the way when I want to type.
Thanks! If my mouse ever dies, I'll consider getting a VX Nano.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
I just love that feature on my Logitech Revolution: you give the wheel a spin and zzzooom down the page. But that one uses a proprietary dongle, which sucks. Finally, finally (!) they released a Bluetooth mouse with "hyper-fast" scrollwheel: the m555b. I just ordered one on ebay today (they aren't showing up in stores just yet). We'll see how it turns out.
Of course you also need a middle mouse button. With the Revolution you can use the wheel (as with most mice), only if you have remapped the action to toggle between free-scroll mode and click-to-click (the mode I never use anymore) to some other button. (If you succeed in changing the mapping to toggle modes, the mouse remembers, so you only need to do it once.) But the wheel is harder to press than most mice. The m555b though appears to have a real middle button, so I will find out when I get it whether it acts like a normal middle button on Linux.
There is also a corded cheap USB version, the RX1500, so I got one of those for work, too. Again, we'll see about the middle button...
My previous choice has been the Evoluent vertical mouse. At least it has 4 buttons plus the wheel, and it's very comfortable and ergonomic, and the wheel click is kindof loose and easy, but it's not free-scrolling. The one I have at home is getting worn out (keeps dropping off the USB bus randomly) and the one at work doesn't get along with the slick desk surface that I have now, since it's not a laser mouse.
The best mouse is no mouse at all, and use as many keyboard shortcuts as possible. If you are a GNU/Linux user, that won't be of much problem, since the only cases when you have to use mouse are with using a web browser, or transitioning between applications. If you are a Windows user, you may simply activate the "Mouse Key" to mandate most of short-range mouse work to your keyboard numeric pad. In addition, Windows has much better GUI keyboard support in Vista, and it may reflect that Microsoft sees the needs from advanced users and programmers. Although having a Logitech cordless mouse at moment, I have my hands on keyboard for some 70 percent of all my time. I use both Windows Vista and Ubuntu (in a VM). It is so cool to finish most of tasks via a keyboard while others around you are moving their hands and pointing like a fly. Andrew S. Tanenbaum (author of MINUX, which in turn Linux derives from) wrote on his homepage that "Mom told me that it is impolite to point others".
I've been using computers for 2 decades now, and find the OLD 101-key layout to be most efficient. I too despise the cutesy diamond layout for the cursor keys...I think that the numlock button should be abolished, having the number pad be dedicated (with parentheses and equals button included nearby). The number pad isn't just for accountants. I have always found the number pad very useful since I first used a computer. Number entry is far less efficient across the top of home row.
Whoever had the infantile idea of F-Lock needs another hole in their head. That's the most useless thing I've ever seen on a keyboard.
Quit juggling the Home/End/Insert/Delete/PgUp/PgDn buttons, I don't need a logoff or sleep button, Word/Excel buttons never get used...by anyone...
Logitech still puts out a decent "unfuckedwith" keyboard
He isnt saying you dont need a mouse. He is saying WTF is a programming mouse vs just a frigging mouse. Its just plain stupid.. A mouse is a mouse.
Different mice could be differently suited to certain purposes. For example the Razer mice generally have features that would make sense to gamers but are generally irrelevant or even distracting to non-gamers. I believe the OP was trying to identify mice that seem better suited for use during programming.
mouse? i use the keyboard to program... i prefer trackball, everyone says its crazy :D
wireless?
if you program a lot, you will have to stop and recharge all the time.. me, i program pretty close to my monitors/keyboard so.. i use wired mouse * ~
good luck finding your uber programming mouse!
i think the thing here is that knowing 'esotoric editor commands' usually implies programming skill :D it is generally not memorization so much as learned behavior or something.. that is to say, so-called 'script-kiddies' are not very likely to have 'memorized' 'esotoric editor commands' of course, most of the 'esotoric editor commands' that I use, I make myself.. That being said, i think its a bit silly to think that there is some mouse that magically makes you a better programmer, as most of the business is done with the keyboard.. you can use the keyboard to do a whole lot.. e.g. you can configure your computer to magically do things when you press certain combination of keyboard keys *~ While I don't use the macs myself, I like their single-button mouse. I'd recommend a single-button mouse because they are neat.
first year CS undergrad? 'that's false.' As if saying this makes it so :D
In fact, typing should be the least amount of time spent on a projects. If it isn't then, you my friend, are the crappy programmer.
--define 'projects'
--define 'programmer'
depending on the size of the 'project' and the role of the 'programmer', it may be that you had better be clackity-clacking all day long :D