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Is Cataclysm the Next World of Warcraft Expansion?

ajs writes "There has been no official announcement yet, but a number of moves by Blizzard Entertainment seem to indicate that the next expansion for World of Warcraft could be titled Cataclysm. Speculation began when Blizzard trademarked Cataclysm recently, and then later when a test server briefly popped up with the word 'Maelstrom' in its name. If true, the name would fall neatly into the WoW lore and expected expansion list. The Cataclysm is another name for the Great Sundering, an event that created a swirling vortex of water and mystical energies (the 'Maelstrom') that has appeared on the world map in-game since release. There are also indications that early design work included some of the islands in this area, which has long fueled anticipation of a Maelstrom-based expansion involving the former Night Elf noble, Azshara, queen of the Naga and the Goblins whose main city is in the south seas."

259 comments

  1. The next WoW Expansion... by omgarthas · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... and probably the last

    1. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by HBI · · Score: 1

      I think they'll milk it for as long as they can.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ... and probably the last

      Yeah, they're really hurting in subscriber numbers these days... Oh wait...

    3. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Dr.Horrible+Protoge · · Score: 2, Informative

      They've already said that max level will be 100... so there's at least 2 more. And with 10 million players I very much doubt that 2 will be the end.

    4. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Dr.Horrible+Protoge · · Score: 2, Informative

      ALSO... Blizzard has also been working on a BRAND NEW IP MMO that has yet to be announced.

    5. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by koolfy · · Score: 1

      why ?
      Is the amount of gamers dramatically decreasing ? Are they running out of money ? Are they doing bad marketing moves ?
      I don't play it, so I'm honestly curious

      --
      Segmentation Fault in "Life, Universe and Everything" at line 42. Don't Panic.
    6. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by omgarthas · · Score: 1

      They are moving all their major content developers to a new franchise, and I don't see Blizzard just milking its best brand until it's R.I.P. because nobody plays it

    7. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by jadae · · Score: 1

      This is true. Look at the original EverQuest. They are still making expansions for that.

    8. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Hubbell · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, with all wow servers in china being shutdown for the foreseeable future, they only have ~4 million subs.

    9. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, with all wow servers in china being shutdown for the foreseeable future, they only have ~4 million subs.

      If by 'shut down' you mean 'continue running while owned by a different company'.

    10. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Shamenaught · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no point in losing your userbase. As long as they update graphics and add stuff every once in a while, everyone's happy.

      Everyone, that is, except those who've realized it's basically just a big time and money-sucking void.

      --
      mysql> SELECT * FROM `places` WHERE `place` LIKE 'home`; Empty set (0.00 sec)
    11. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by happyemoticon · · Score: 1

      Naah. They'll keep coming out with new content as long as it's profitable for them to do so.

      The only foreseeable problem is that, with the expansion packs, they're slowly going through every big bad they established in Warcraft 3, which makes it difficult to pull the story back together if they ever decide to do another game in the Warcraft world.

    12. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Cookie3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      They've never said 100 is the max level. That statement is GENERALLY attributed to the fake "expansion list" that people keep linking to. Here's the original source for that list:
      http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=21;mid=119012268058738816

      It's fake. The 1st expansion, Burning Crusade went live in January 2007 -- but Wrath of the Lich King was announced (INCLUDING zone information) in August of that year. By September, all of that info was everywhere, including approximate level of the zones, preliminary notes about possible raid zones, etc. Basically, the list used readily available data based on RPG sourcebook material, in-game quests, and instruction manuals for previous Warcraft games.

      Further, even if the list was legitimate: It makes no sense why a multi-billion dollar company would continue to base its video game's success or failure on a sole wordpad document transformed into a PDF.

      --
      present day... present time... hahahaha...
    13. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 2, Informative

      By 'shut down' he meant that the company that should have taken over, still haven't gotten all their ducks in a row, meaning that the people there can't play on the servers unless they move to Taiwanese servers.
      So you're only partly right.

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
    14. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are correct that they never said the max level is 100. The developers HAVE said that all of their equations and formula were designed to be able to scale up to at least level 100 though. They've acknowledged that they didn't plan for beyond that, but I'm sure they could tweak them if need be, given how much money it's bringing in.

    15. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by bubkus_jones · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everything can be described as a big time and money sucking void, really.

    16. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by HBI · · Score: 1

      Actually i'd say their deepest problem is that, since you have to buy every expansion to proceed in level, they are slowly but surely locking out all but the most committed players from sticking around long enough to access their new content. If you look at a given server, you'll find tons of level 80s and a few low levels proceeding along. It is inconvenient/undesirable for the high level types to do much hanging around with the low levels. This means that absent people making twinks, the low level zones are pretty well deserted. The game looks like no one plays it a lot of the time when you are running through low level zones. This doesn't encourage people to want to start playing, which ultimately will kill the game, though the way down will be slow and extended.

      I believe in the short term it costs them money. If they wanted to extract more cash from people, they'd be well advised to make all but the latest expansion free. When the number becomes 3 expansions to buy to get to current, it'll be a huge deterrent for a new player or an additional account, even more so than now.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    17. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Shamenaught · · Score: 1

      Everything except expencive hookers. They're a big money cock sucking void.

      --
      mysql> SELECT * FROM `places` WHERE `place` LIKE 'home`; Empty set (0.00 sec)
    18. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by happyemoticon · · Score: 1

      Well, one nice thing they are doing is making mounts available at level 20 (and epic mounts at level 40 if I recall), and the whole start-at-level-55 thing for Death Knights is pretty cool.

    19. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [Citation Needed]

    20. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That problem was probably also part of the motivation behind 'heroic' classes that start at higher levels --e.g., DeathKnight at 55 --so maybe we'll see more of those.

    21. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      Possibly-- or they want to move on to the next MMO. Ever wondered why the patches and class balance and new content have been coming slower and slower?

      It's entirely possible they don't want people to become MMO'd out. Too much of a good thing...
      My guess-- next is World of Starcraft, with not two, but THREE factions. That will make it very interesting. Timing would be perfect, too, they could release it just one or two years after the last Starcraft 2 Campaign is released, and just ride the wave of that marketing blitz.

    22. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This is true. Look at the original EverQuest. They are still making expansions for that.

      Yup, and another is due out this November. And, while this will probably be modded as flamebait, WoW was the best thing that ever happened to EverQuest, from my perspective as someone that's played it continuously for nearly 10 years now: It lured many assholes from EQ, and the remaining population is, overall, much better for it, at least in my experience.

    23. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by thesandtiger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The next MMO is, according to statements from Blizzard sources, to be a new IP - not based on any previous franchise. Given that 3 of their upcoming products are sequels or expansions (Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, next WoW expansion) it stands to reason that they might want to try to launch a new franchise - they need to keep the future markets in mind.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    24. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter, really. At the end of the new expansion I still won't be able to afford epic flight.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    25. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Denihil · · Score: 1, Funny

      Agreed. Wedding? Girlfriend? Job? All pointless time sucking voids. Oh, and if you reroll irl, can i have your stuff? It's not soulbound, trust me.

      --
      WÌÌfÍ--ÍSÌÒÍ...Í...ÌHÌÍfÍÍÍ--ÍÍÍ
    26. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Dr.Horrible+Protoge · · Score: 1

      They are working on a new MMO but they've stated it will be BRAND NEW IP. So sorry fan boi's no World of Starcraft... besides.. teh initails would be WoS... pronounced, wuss?

    27. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Dr.Horrible+Protoge · · Score: 1

      Flying at 60 now too... And there is RUMOR that people with max level characters will be able to roll new characters starting at a higher level... They already allow you to share weapons and armor that have higher level stats with your lower level characters.

    28. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Golbez81 · · Score: 1

      and dont forget Bliz already announced last year a separate "Super secret" MMO they've been working on since last year when they started on Diablo 3.

    29. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by f0dder · · Score: 1

      Money sucking? You obviously are the one who needs to go out more. I quit WoW in January and real life is not cheap.

    30. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe not but I bet your colon thanks you.

    31. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by ildon · · Score: 1

      Every expansion so far they've changed the stat scaling formulas. Every expansion. You can literally look at every stat/gear/whatever scaling formula in the game, and you get 3 piecewise functions that go from 1-60, 61-70, 71-80 (with a couple stats having either odd or non-scaling formula for sub 20 or 30).

      There's no need to plan past any arbitrary level number when you change all the numbers in the entire game every level increase to match whatever you want.

    32. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The playerbases of EQ1 and EQ2 are quite top notch players. In WoW, you take a risk at a random pickup group. However, in the EverQuest versions, anyone who doesn't know their class's role in a group doesn't last long.

      EQ1 is considered extremely hardcore, but these days, the reputation is somewhat unfounded. You can start a character at level 1, pick up some mercenaries (NPCs that can tank, heal, even res) and grind solo (although grouping is a lot better) to 85. All EQ2 classes can solo, although you can do well for grinding exp if you mentor a lower level and go through lower level dungeons.

      I highly recommend either EQ game for someone who is sick of WoW's animish-look, and who wants to level and raid with people who know their stuff. No game is perfect, but on average, the playerbase quality is much higher in Sony's MMOs.

    33. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by selven · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Please stop saying "based on new IP". Based on "a new fictional universe", "new ideas" and "new franchise" are all acceptable, but every time you casually use IP to refer to a collection of related fiction you're only furthering the concept that everything created automatically becomes property.

    34. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other MMOs have a way to help with this. Everquest 2 has a game mechanic that when you get one of your chars to 80, every alt on that account receives a 10% exp bonus. Two chars, 20%. This stops at 50%. EQ2 also has the equivalent of BoA gear, heirlooms, where you can earn a lot of void shards (roughly similar to emblems in WoW) on one character, pass them to another to buy that alt some good gear.

      EQ1 and EQ2 also have a good mechanism for expansions. Recently, if a person buys the latest expansion (online or a physical box), they receive every previous expansion. This is a good thing because EQ1 has 15 expansions, EQ2 has five, so someone getting started with the game can play with their friends who have been playing since release.

      WoW has had very few expansions, so they can go with a system of requiring BC before WotLK is made usable. However, this is going to become untenable after a couple expansions. Instead, Blizz likely will sell bundles similar to the Diablo Collection, or the Warcraft Warchest.

    35. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It's the standard term in the Game industry to represent what you just said, build a bridge and get the fuck over it.

    36. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Starcraft Universe. So 'su' - you can't tell me that's not 'uber'. :P And I didn't think they said it would be a 'brand new IP', just that it wouldn't be based on Warcraft. Got a link to the 'new IP' blue post?

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    37. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Morlark · · Score: 1

      Actually, even assuming that all of the Chinese players just stopped playing WoW, that still leaves Blizzard with in the region of 6 million subscribers. And why would they just stop playing? They've all moved over to the Taiwanese servers now, so the drop in subscriber numbers isn't nearly as large as people make it out to be.

      --
      Santa's suicide mission go!
    38. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We can only hope this is the last. Due to the increased focus on PvP since the game was launched, as well as the ever increasing levels of gear, and what will be a third expansion of talents and abilities, balance between classes has become a sad stumbling juggling act. WoW is showing its age more and more. I think it's fair to say that a significant portion of WoW's population only continues to play because of the online friendships that's it created. I know couples that have married who met in my guild. We've had a real life convention, for lack of a better word, where we all got together. The game itself has become boring.

      Blizzard is working on a new IP mmo. Their top people moved from WoW to it. I have no doubts that Blizzard will continue to milk WoW for all they can, but it will continue to coast downhill as they prep their new game to hopefully take over as King of the Mountain.

    39. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by goonerw · · Score: 1

      Nah. MS have that acronym already for their intranet update services.

      --
      LOAD ".SIG"
      PRESS PLAY ON TAPE
    40. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by zwei2stein · · Score: 1

      Or they would allow old classes start right at 'heroic' levels.

      Archmage class - mage starting at L55.
      Blademaster - warrior starting at L55.
      Ranger - hunter starting at L55 ...

      --
      -- Technology for the sake of technology is as pathetic as eschewing technology because it's technology.
    41. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Kartu · · Score: 1

      Well, fake or not, it also states that Maelstrom comes next... ;)

    42. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Talderas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think it's going to be World of Starcraft. Even if it was, you could pick out anywhere from 3 to 7 fractions potentially depending on how it is done. You have Arcturus Mengsk and the Terran Dominion. You have Jimmy Raynor and his bunch of guys. You have the UEF (can't count them out). You have Kerrigan. You have Artanis and the Protoss survivors. You have Zeratul and the Dark Templar. There's also always an opportunity for another Overmind causing a split of the Zerg forces.

      No, I think Blizzard isn't doing World of Starcraft, but I can't see them doing another fantasy genre MMO. They're going to do a different genre in order to pull in more subscribers while potentially preventing a mass migration from WoW to this unnamed MMO. So I sit here looking at the various genres that Blizzard could do, and I'm left concluding that this new MMO is going to be a scifi MMO. The genre is underdone at best, and it's ripe for a good developer to come in and make a killing on it.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    43. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      I'm going to say sci-fi or horror (pleasepleasePLEASE be a Zombie theme!). Though, horror might be too close to fantasy for some.

      An interesting easter egg from WoW: in some of the skins for certain devices (shredders and other things like that), there seems to be a part that looks sort of like a display, and Kerrigan is shown repeatedly.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    44. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by idontgno · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's going to be World of Starcraft.

      I agree, but it's a shame. The ominous proclamation "Nuclear launch detected" would have a lot more visceral impact if you knew you were standing around ground zero.

      but I can't see them doing another fantasy genre MMO

      Well, they do have the Diablo milieu, but I don't see much opportunity for innovation there. Besides, they can't even get the 3rd title in the normal isometric-scroller game series out the door.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    45. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you are level 80 or not, but once you hit 80, how can you not have enough money to afford your epic flight training? Blizzard has practically made making money easy. Questing generates a lot of gold. Dailies at 80 give a lot of gold. Unless you are raiding non-stop and wiping out to create huge repair bills, it isn't hard to get the money for epic flight. Even with raiding and wiping, all you need is a gathering profession and you'll offset that cost too.

    46. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No chance. Blizzard management keeps dangling that paycheck carrot out and the developers will continue to grind out new content for us players to grind away at.

    47. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Dr.Horrible+Protoge · · Score: 1

      "We have nothing to advertise for the new MMO because itâ(TM)s a shell of a game thus far. Weâ(TM)ve already stated itâ(TM)ll be a brand new franchise, which means the lore, art, and game play are being developed entirely from scratch. Itâ(TM)s an overwhelming process, but a process through which we excel. Our track record supports this." ...response from Blizzard community manager Zarhym clarifying that Blizzard's unannounced fifth project is an MMOG based on an entirely new intellectual property. "The idea of a new franchise is very intriguing to employees of the company," said Blizzard chief operating officer Paul Sams..." That enough for you?

    48. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Toridas · · Score: 1

      They've already said that max level will be 100

      No, they haven't.

    49. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Dr.Horrible+Protoge · · Score: 1

      It was based off of the Devs saying all of their systems are based off of 100 being the max cap. It was already established that I was incorrect and you're not the first to point it out. I'm glad you fell better about yourself now.

    50. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      If you dally, it now takes about 3 hours per level in the 20s and 30s. So figure *maybe* 150 hours of gameplay to get to 60. And possibly as low as 100 hours. So you're only looking at maybe a month to get to 60.

      You can then cruise through the 60s in another 30-45 hours. Figure 2 more weeks.

      And the 70s take about 5-7 hours per level. So there's another 50-70 hours.

      So, within 3-4 months of starting from scratch, you're pretty much caught up with the existing players. At which point you have to figure out what you're going to do for the next 1-2 years in the game. Do you do battlegrounds, arena, raids, crafting, exploration, questing, achievements, socialize or roleplay?

      Back prior to Burning Crusade, most people said that it took about 6 months to get to max level (60). So Blizzard has basically doubled the leveling speed to get to max level (80).

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    51. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by HasselhoffThePaladin · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that. I recently explained to a friend lamenting the same thing--no epic flyer yet--that it takes damn-near active laziness to not be able to buy your artisan riding skill after a month at 80. You can make at least 100g just from spending 15 minutes doing the four Argent Tournament chapmion's dailies.

    52. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Possibly-- or they want to move on to the next MMO. Ever wondered why the patches and class balance and new content have been coming slower and slower?

      Errr.. they have?

      The patches/class balance and such seems to be proceeding along a similar pace to that established at the start of The Burning Crusade. When the original came came out, patches (but not content) were fast and furious. They did a lot of major class rebalances (each class had its own "patch") where the classes were redesigned, but every since that initial redesign, major changes have usually only come at the expansion release. Each major patch here contains a number of class tweaks, but for the most part there aren't any major changes because the devs are comfortable with how the classes are functioning. When they aren't, they tweak various classes to bring them in line.

      As for content patches, here is the major schedule for the game:
      Original:
      Molten Core, Tier 1: Release (Nov 2004)
      Blackwing Lair: Tier 2: Patch 1.6 (July 2005 - 8 months since the previous dungeon)
      Ahn'Qiraq: Tier 2.5: Patch 1.9 (Jan 2006 - 6 months since the previous dungeon)
      Naxxramas: Tier 3: Patch 1.11 (Jun 2006 - 5 months since the previous dungeon)

      The Burning Crusade:
      Karazhan/Gruul's Lair/Serpentshrine/The Eye/Mt. Hyjal: Tier 4 and Tier 5 and Tier 6: Patch 2.0.3 TBC release (Jan 2007 - 7 months since the previous dungeon) *** See below note.
      The Black Temple: Tier 6: Patch 2.1 (May 2007 - 4 months since the previous dungeon)
      Zul'Aman: Patch 2.3 (Nov 2007 - 6 months since the previous dungeon)
      Sunwell: Tier 6: Patch 2.4 (Mar 2008 - 4 months since the previous dungeon)

      Wrath of the Lich King:
      Naxxramas: Tier 7/7.5: Patch 3.0.3 WotLK release (Nov 2008 - 6 months since the previous dungeon)
      Ulduar: Tier 8/8.5: Patch 3.1 (Apr 2009 - 5 months since the previous dungeon)
      Coliseum: Tier 9? Probably not?: Patch 3.2 (Unknown -- not for a few months yet. Currently 3 months since the previous dungeon).

      So far all the major content releases have followed the same roughly 6-month release cycle, sometimes 4 months, 8 months in the case of the first release since the original game launch. It's worth noting the difference between the releases of The Burning Crusade and Wrath -- in TBC, dungeons for Tier 4, 5, and 6 were -all- in the TBC release, but were protected through attunements -- requirements that you complete the earlier dungeons before you're even allowed in the later ones. Because of that and dungeon difficulties, the world-first-kills for the first boss in the Battle of Mount Hyjal didn't occur until 5 months after the content was released, since it took so long for even the highest-end guilds to through the previous content and get attuned. Most guilds took much much longer. Wrath of the Lich King has definitely taken a different approach -- less content released up front, easier content in the form of Naxx, with additional content released on the same cycle.

    53. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by CapnStank · · Score: 1

      That's fine and dandy for those who can afford to spend 2-3+ hours a day playing. There ARE still casuals (scrubs if you will) like me who can only find a few hours on weekends to enjoy the game.

      I enjoy leveling toons because I always do it with friends but for someone attempting to get into the game this could suck... a lot. Not only would they not have countless hours to play but they're also new to the content and have no clue how to properly level, the good zones, the tricks to grinding quests quickly, helpful addons, etc. etc. etc.

      They've done a lot increasing rewards and introducing the recruit-a-friend reward but its still a HUGE damper for newer players. Hell, I dropped my main when WotLK came out and still don't have an 80 because of it. Why would I want to invest in another expansion? Sure, this may be just ME but I have ~4 friends in the same boat. I'm sure there's other small collectives out there sharing the same experience.

    54. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Questing and leveling seems to be primarily designed around solo play. IT si actually much nicer to levelin a zone void of other players then it is to fight for spawns with too many around you.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    55. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by HBI · · Score: 1

      I agree, actually, but I don't think this is necessarily good for the game. Forcing people to be social usually helps player retention.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    56. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      I would think WoW is proving otherwise. There is very little you need other players for in the game and they seem to be doing a good job of keeping people playing.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    57. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      Ever wondered why the patches and class balance and new content have been coming slower and slower?

      Perhaps because the code base has matured and most of the issues have been ironed out at this point?

      Or maybe they finally realized that most of the "class balance issues" are really just someone who doesn't know how to play their class whining about getting their ass handed to them by someone with some skill?

      As for new content, there seems to be more of it, coming faster, than ever before.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    58. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      Well, they do have the Diablo milieu, but I don't see much opportunity for innovation there.

      Diablo is not significantly different from Warcraft as a basis for an MMO. I could see them pulling from it to create expansions to WoW, say based in a new world (ala Outland) that for the players to defend from the Burning Legion. it would be way to much work to create a whole new game off Diablo I think, with little payoff.

      I would definitely be interested in World of Starcraft though.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    59. Re:The next WoW Expansion... by bckrispi · · Score: 1

      I don't see that. I've been playing since this past April, and for the most part, I've had plenty of interaction with other lowbies. Less populated low-level zones can actually be a "good" thing. You don't have to wait for quest bosses to respawn. You're not competing with dozens of other players for gathering herbs/mining. And you're not perpetually looking over your shoulder for a player from the opposite faction. When it comes time to group up for instances, I can usually put together a 5-man team in less than an hour. Of course, some of my friends who have been with the game since the beginning will reminisce with me about how "Blackrock Mountain used to be a PvP bloodbath." - it's very lightly travelled now - but I'm sure I'll get that experience once I get to Northrend.

      My only complaint: It is next to impossible to get a group together to do the lv55-60 dungeons and Classic Raids. By this point, everyone's moved on to the BC content. The only way I got to do Scholomance and Dire Maul for my epic mount was to have a couple of 80 guildies run me through them. I've been trying to find a raid group to hit Blackwing or Molten Core for weeks without any luck.

      --
      Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
  2. Hopefully for the Druids... by samriel · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hopefully for all of the druids who have been (whining|complaining|asking) for The Emerald Dream for so long, Blizzard will add it into this one.

    /dr00ds represent!

  3. Does anyone care? by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm fairly sure that it will need a neat 4-letter-acronym, but aside of that, nobody will care for its name, its story or anything else RPG or WC-story related it might bring along.

    What matters is, how much of a level cap increase will it bring (ok, the usual 10 levels, that one is a given), what is the new socket or gizmo you can tack onto your gear (we had sockets and runes already, so this time they'd have to come up with something really new, at least I can't think of anything else that's been done before) and whether they manage to dumb it down any more.

    Fanboys, flame away.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Does anyone care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is *some* truth to what you are saying: mainly the part about rather or not they manage to dumb it down. I've played WoW since July 2005 and it gets more casual by the patch. Seems to me that they are beginning the end for it, slowly phasing it out so everyone will move to the next Blizzard MMO whenever it rolls around.

    2. Re:Does anyone care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4-letter-acronym? Cyst.

    3. Re:Does anyone care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or - shock - they're actually trying to bring in new players instead of making it harder to get into as it goes along, a problem other MMOs have. I have thought about trying FF11 on my 360, but from what I read and see you pretty much have to have been playing since day 1 to be relevant in the game.

    4. Re:Does anyone care? by Talderas · · Score: 1

      One of my friends plays FF11. According to him there aren't very many, if any new players coming in, and most low level jobs/players are people raising subjobs. I've wanted to go back and get my AF for Dragoon (Galka Dragoon Represent!), but unless my friend was willing to help me out in leveling, I'd be disinclined to go back.

      The truth is that all MMOs are just pieces of money sucking crap, but we still go back to them because as players most of us desire multiplayer content, and a lot of us also desire multiplayer content that requires a number of players to cooperate in order to achieve it. Right now, sans MMOs, my top multiplayer game is current Resistance 2. I've been playing the cooperative mode in it a lot, and that supports up to 8 players. My biggest problem with the cooperative aspect of MMOs is that it can be a crapshoot when dealing with PUGs, or being a PUG. Let's take WoW. I PUG a regular dungeon, there's no penalty to me if I don't complete it, I just reset it and get some new PUGs. A Heroic Dungeon? We get 1 or two bosses down, I'm now locked in when the PUG abandons. If one of the other PUGs gets some other people to finish it, I got screwed until tomorrow on being able to running that heroic. Let's progress to normal raids, Normal Naxxramas. I PUG this, we fail miserable and only clear 2 bosses in the spider wing. I am locked to this. I try looking for more PUGs to finish it, in the meantime one of the PUGs just gets a bunch from his guild goes in and clears it. I just got screwed out of how many boss kills for a week?

      That system is just irritating. What I would like to see is for instances that save a player to them, record which bosses the player killed. That way if someone else goes and ninja steals the instance ID and clear it they essentially get a splinter ID. How the hell can they expect players to learn how to perform in raids when after one or two fails their raid disbands and someone else ninja steals the ID?

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    5. Re:Does anyone care? by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 1

      Maybe the intent is to push people toward guilds? If you form friendships in the game, chances are you'll stay with the game. Socialization is a big reason to stay in the game as well as content. When I first started the game, I found that as I leveled, I was getting into groups with the same few people. As one of them joined a guild, they pulled the rest of us into it. The guild wasn't very good, but the friendships that developed have kept some of the players together for quite a while. I've even seen where players stopped playing the game (life changes: military deployment, school, marriage, etc...) that hop onto the game or the guild vent server just to chat. Maybe the difficulty with solo content is intentional.

    6. Re:Does anyone care? by dontPanik · · Score: 1

      nobody will care for its name, its story or anything else RPG or WC-story related it might bring along.

      I see this as a huge problem in WoW.
      It's a shame that people don't care about the lore in WoW or why they are running the instance that they are running.
      One can sympathsize with them, they play the game for their own reasons, which is to play a game, devoid of any meaning to the game besides that it engages them.

      But I feel that if the game was designed differently, people would pay more attention to the lore.

      People are conditioned by the games they play. They see rewards, and they work towards those rewards.
      In Oblivion, people don't just work towards the main quest line, because they recieve side quests from NPCs, and those offer alternative rewards. They get to define their own fun.
      But in a social arena like WoW, your rewards are pre-determined for you before you play the game, because the community already exists, and the community more than the game decides what you see as a reward (and the game decides the community, but that's not my point).
      So, what I'm saying is, when little Timmy plays WoW, he's prolly not going to play it to explore and have fun, he's going to play it to keep up with his friends in level and engage with his guild, which is not a bad thing, I'm just pointing out where his rewards lie. Notice Timmy has no reward for knowing lore.

      So long story short, my idea is that the game developers could create rewards for knowing lore. That way it would become integral to the game to understand the game.
      How to do this? I dunno, I'm not a developer. Quizzes for bonus lootz? To know where to go for a quest you have to know the lore associated? Just ideas, but my point is that if lore is to be relevent to a game, it has to become integral to the game.

      --
      "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso
  4. Re:The next World of Warcraftt Expansion by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but do you realize how long you have to farm 'til you can afford THAT? It's hoarded by the effing chinese farmers (ok, they're russian here and called pimps), and last time I tried to get one myself, just as I was charging one and started my attack combo the GMs suspended my account by locking me in a little room. Ok, not so much different from my normal dwelling, but WITHOUT A FRIGGIN' COMPUTER!

    RL sucks. When the GMs side with the farmers that hog the resources, you know it's a game not worth playing.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. A new book also kinda confirms it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    when coupled with the "Cataclysm" name, one of the Lich King's visions in the new book "Arthas, Rise of the Lich King", everything gets a lot clearer and more certain: ...the silver waters of a vast expanse of water... a sea... ...Something was roiling just beneath the ocean's surface. The hitherto-smooth surface began to churn wildly, seething, as if from a storm, although the day was clear. A horrible sound that Arthas only dimly recognized as laughter assaulted his ears, along with the screaming of a world wrenched from its proper place, hauled upward to face the light of day it had not seen in uncounted centuries...

    Cataclysm most likely doesn't refer to the Great Sundering, but a new event, Azshara raising Nazjatar to the surface.

    1. Re:A new book also kinda confirms it by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Funny

      Cataclysm most likely doesn't refer to the Great Sundering, but a new event, Azshara raising Nazjatar to the surface.

      But before she can, she needs you to collect 8 pale seahorse manes and 6 crystal jellyfish extracts.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re:A new book also kinda confirms it by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Just posting to say that I enjoyed this joke very much.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  6. Not News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This isn't news for nerds. Hell, it's not even NEWS. It's a lame conjecture. I think even WoW nerds would wait for something to actually -happen- before considering it news.

    1. Re:Not News by Vectronic · · Score: 1

      It's sunday...

  7. Re: the islands by mauthbaux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are also indications that early design work included some of the islands in this area,

    It's true that a couple of islands appear on the map near the vortex. I heard a rumor about them once indicating that they were at one point accessible to players. Swimming there wasn't possible due to the fatigue that resulted from the deep water. However, if you had a couple stacks of elixirs of water walking, you wouldn't be affected by the fatigue since you weren't swimming. According to the one player I knew who had claimed to have been there, it took about 45 minutes of wandering around with nothing but waves in sight. Once he got to the island, he looted a chest that contained a full tier set of paladin gear. 20 minutes later his account had received a 72 hour ban, and all his recent loot had been removed from his inventory. His theory was that the island was a place where GMs could perform in-game testing of items and whatnot. Obviously this is all unconfirmed at best. and I still have some serious doubts about the story, but anyway, that's the only thing I've ever heard about the islands.

    And just so that this post isn't entirely off topic, here's a link to some of the current speculation on the lore which will be experienced with the expansion. As an added note, it's doubtful that this will be the final expansion of the game. Most are speculating that there will be a 5th chapter in which players will get to enter the emerald dream. Again, this is all just rumors and lies at this point.

    --
    "Operating systems suck: you're better off using only the BIOS" --trainsaw.com
  8. South Seas Lore by MEDIEVALDRAGON · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is some lore of each isle in the South Seas:
    http://wow.incgamers.com/blog/comments/south-seas-lore-the-eye-maelstrom/

    1. Re:South Seas Lore by ajs · · Score: 1

      Excellent stuff. I've added a link to this to the original article. Thanks!

  9. Will Interest Wane? by HalAtWork · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Will interest wane in WoW simply because it seems like just an extension to the treadmill? Are people getting tired of the aesthetic? These are questions from someone who doesn't see the attraction in the first place.

    1. Re:Will Interest Wane? by k_187 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think for a lot of players interest waxes and wanes within each expansion cycle. I played from launch for about a year. Stopped until the 1st expansion, played that until bored. Stopped until the 2nd expansion, played that until I got bored again. The coming back to things is a lot of fun, until you've seen the new sights and get back on the treadmill. I'm not the only person I know that's played like this. I had a lot of fun when I came back to the last expansion. Not so much by the time I left. I'm sure it'll be the same way again.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    2. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

      Heck, I'm falling into this cycle while waiting for patches. I'v done Uldar a few times, I know I'll never finish it. So now I'm bored and waiting for the next patch to come out and give those raids a try.

    3. Re:Will Interest Wane? by ildon · · Score: 1

      Will interest wane in WoW simply because it seems like just an extension to the treadmill? Are people getting tired of the aesthetic? These are questions from someone who doesn't see the attraction in the first place.

      No, no, and uh, no.

    4. Re:Will Interest Wane? by mellestad · · Score: 1

      It did for me. Honestly, I lost interest before I came close to the first level cap. The expansions might be awesome, but there is no way I am going to waste months of my time grinding for levels just to get to the new content. If they let you start out now and pick a mid-range point for your character maybe I would consider it. People might say, hey it only takes a couple weeks to level up to 50! Well, yea, but some of us have jobs and families. If the gameplay was fun it might be different, but I get tired of playing about two days after I start. Just the same thing over and over and over and.....

    5. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Kingrames · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Then you'd have been impressed by the latest expansion, which made all the questing very story driven, interesting, and added memorable moments to just about every quest.

      One of the WORST quests in the northrend expansion has you free a storm giant, and ride his back while he runs around squishing legions of the undead and exacting revenge on his captors. Then you set him free, and unlike the old world quests, he's not back in the cage when you run around there later. He's actually free.

      Then there's the dungeons, where you fight bosses with all sorts of fun abilities, like the one that renders the entire party insane - forcing you to kill your teammates twice, or the one that you ride a dragon to fight the boss, or the one that gores party members at random forcing you to play without a party member for a short while.

      They've come a long way from the boring version of wow. Even though I did get burned out after the expansion hit, it wasn't because of the game, but the people in it. I think that makes it as much a success as any game can be expected to be.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
    6. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whether people will get tired of it will, IMO, mostly depend on how long Blizzard manages to keep the cardinal sins that have been commited before at bay. And arguably it gets harder with every expansion.

      1) New players vs. old players and catching up
      One of the most devastating problems of MMOs so far was that old players quit over time, but new players are not drawn into the game. The main reason being that it's hard to catch up to the old players, so why bother trying? So far they managed to make it easy for new players to catch up. With the last expansion you already saw a few cracks in that shell.

      2) Acceptance of new players
      Veterans quickly zipped through the "normal" levels of the instances or bypassed them altogether. This was possible because the raid gear from before added so many "levels" (essentially, equipment is additional levels, I'll elaborate if necessary, but I think that's something everyone figured out by now) that they could easily step over the "lower", normal mode, new dungeons. This in turn meant that new players eventually hit a wall. They could not get the "normal" level gear (or raid gear from the previous expansion) because nobody did those dungeons, and they were not accepted into heroic instances because they lacked the gear.

      3) Equipment power inflation
      This is tightly tied with the previous points. The gear has to be more powerful than the one from the previous expansion. Else, why bother getting it? On the other hand, too much power in the gear opens up the aforementioned player gap. The power gap was quite noticable between BC and WotLK, probably because of the complaints from old players that the green crap level 71 blew the snot out of their gold raid gear they fought so hard at level 70. The power inflation will go on and become worse and worse with every expansion.

      4) Additional "equipment slots"
      This can be a boon or a killer. So far, again, WoW managed to use it beneficial. New players could easily "overequip" compared to the low level monsters and zip through them. It was not unheard that you could easily solo heroics at your level until you reached the expansion levels, because you could now add so much more boost to your character than you could before the expansions. It can be quite a problem for new players who cannot get those goodies easily (unless they have high level friends who equip them) because that stuff simply does not drop easily, or at all, from old time monsters, or can only be crafted altogether.

      In short, how long WoW will survive will not depend how much goodies they toss at old players. Sorry, not intending to hurt your feelings if you're an old time WoW player, but you will stay anyway, as long as they don't stop producing any content altogether. Some will quit over time, and whether or not WoW will stay to be the top game will depend on whether it manages to fill those ranks of quitters with new players.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Will Interest Wane? by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      1) New players and catching up: I'm not sure we're playing the same game. They announced Refer A Friend, wherein a veteran can refer a new player (well, a new account) and when they team up, both characters get a huge boost to their experience up to level 60. This lets new players get into the game, learn from their friends, and generally get to explore a lot of stuff. It also lets older players level that other class they've always thought about but never done. Plus, they also re-itemized the quest rewards for 1-60, cut the total amount of xp to level, and basically make that less agonizing than it was in vanilla WoW. In Outland, the leveling rate was substantially sped up, and I can only imagine the same thing will happen with the next expansion with regards to Lich King stuff.

      2) Instances are a strange case. Some people REALLY like 'em, some people just don't care. Personally, I hope that the next major update to instances would be something like what they did to the battlegrounds - a way to let people within server clusters run instances together. Obviously there would need to be a lot of stuff done to make this workable and not exploitable or really miserable for people who like to grief other players, but it would be huge for people who want to run instances but cannot seem to find groups. Certainly even a less than perfect implementation of this would be better than nobody ever running the early instances at all.

      3) They handle inflation in two ways: gear resets and adding different mechanics. The next patch looks like it's going to let even reasonably casual players catch (nearly) up to the hard-core raiders so they can see the new content too. I think Blizzard learned that the poop-sockers will beat any raid they make very quickly, and so aren't worried about the hard-core players as much as the almost certainly much larger casual raider group. They shift up the mechanics of how things work frequently that people who haven't played the game for 3 years will be able to start (kinda) at the same general level of understanding as people who've been playing since launch.

      4) They have given newbies a LOT of really kickass gear and removed "heroics" (actually, I think you're thinking about "elite" mobs) from the old world. Any class should be able to handle any quest in the game in the old world using ONLY quest reward items. The only benefit that being an experienced player will give you is that you'll know the world and the quests already, and some items that might boost the speed with which you level by 20% or so. Special "twink" equipment is absolutely not necessary to be able to level - it's nice, but really overkill.

      I agree with you that they need to keep new players coming in for WoW to continue being so successful. They seem to be doing exactly that: making the initial levels easier, giving mounts to players earlier (and cheaper) than before, making the early quests less difficult, and creating new tools (a built in quest map kind of thing that shows you where to go for your quests is HUGE for newbies) that will even the playing field a bit between vets and newbies. The only real difference between a vet and a newbie is the store of knowledge that vets have built up - where things are, how they work, etc. The only items that vets have that newbies cannot get are really more flavor items - stuff from the past - but they don't really give any kind of advantage. Of all the multiplayer games I've ever played, WoW is the most newbie friendly, and continues to get moreso as they go along.
         

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    8. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I said that the catching up problem has been the killer for many games before. WoW so far, as you point out, managed to give the new players a way to catch up. The "bring a friend" program is ok, but only works where you already have friends playing WoW. In that case, you will already keep playing, if for nothing else then to stay with your friends.

      The problem WoW faces now is the problem all aging games (hell, pretty much all human interaction) face: Clique mentality and a very, very tough time to get into it as the new guy. You will spend a fairly long time alone. Even if you're taken up by the odd group, they will probably just let you tag along without you becoming part of the group at all.

      I've made that experiment, try it, it's interesting. I've been playing WoW (off and on) from the beginning. I was one of the first lv 60 holy clerics on my server. Of course, a lot of people knew me. Some even remember me from "those days". And it's anything but hard to get help, even with alts. Despite not being in a guild anymore, and not "really" playing for at least two expansions.

      I tried to see how far the clique'ish side of WoW had grown. So I created a totally new account without anything in common with my old one. Call it an experiment in sociology. I started to play. I tried my best to be "social" (ok, I'm not the most social person in the world, but I did what I could). I greeted fellow players, I tried to invite players (after asking, I know what an invite out of the blue is like...) that happened to play in the same areas I did... no avail. Asking for groups for low level instances (20-40) yielded, essentially, "what for, get past it and get to 80".

      So the experience a new player gets is that he is supposed to play alone for 80 levels. And while this is anything but long for an experienced player (how long does it take you from zero to hero? 50 hours? If that?), he doesn't know his routine, he doesn't know the areas and where to go when, he doesn't know the quests. And it's likely that these 200 hours he has to invest compared to you mean a month or two of gameplay.

      Solo gameplay. In an MMO. I don't know about you, but there is very little that's more boring.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Canazza · · Score: 1

      Ah, the Occulus...

      I don't know anyone who's ever done the occulus twice, except those going for the achievments. It's a horrible instance mainly because of the free-form nature of the dragon riding.
      It is the WORST instance to go into with a pick-up group, as undoubtably someone will not know what to do and the final boss turns into a horrible clusterfuck. Assuming you get that far.
      Arguments over how many green drakes we need, who gets to tank on the red drake, who gets to do this, who gets to do that... and I play HORDE, the supposed 'mature' faction.

      Doing the dungeon with a team who knows what they're doing is just boring, there is very little to actually do on the dragons other than sit there mashing two buttons and occasionally moving. It's also more fruststrating knowing how easy it is as to how badly some people seem to be at it.

      But yes, the first time we did Azjol Nerub with the final boss creating evil clones of your friends was an excellent moment, as was the blender-boss in the Nexus, where you spend half of the fight being tossed around in a glass cage, or fighting a being of pure Troll Mojo, or cursing the name of Drakkuru, the last expansion had countless moments of pure glee just from questing. An excellent narative thread that introduces both friends and foes, as well as successfully creating and building up the malicious threat of the Lich King in such a way you are *truely* disapointed that you can't go beat his blue lipped face in from the start. He's a pantomime villian really, poping up at opertune moments to screw you over, threatening you, and then popping out of the room, leaving you shaking your fist in the air.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    10. Re:Will Interest Wane? by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      That's been entirely different from my experience - maybe it's a server thing? I've rolled alts on maybe 20 different servers since launch and generally people are reasonably helpful and friendly. If I want a group for a dungeon, I'll generally find people in about 10-20 minutes, tops (general chat if the zone is busy, in a nearby city if it isn't, but I do think they can make this less of an issue). There are often leveling guilds that advertise looking for recruits in the main cities. I guess I just don't experience that cliquishness - the only time people are less than welcoming is when you're a fresh level 80 and you're starting to do heroics/raid - some ridiculous people will insist that you link achievements pointing out that you've done the instance before or look your armory profile up. Personally I think that's absurd, and take it as a sign that I don't want to be in that group even if I do have whatever it is they're looking for.

      Maybe it's a peak time vs. off time kind of thing? If I play at hours most people in the US are at work or in classes or asleep, then yeah, it's much slower.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    11. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's an Euro Server thing... Or maybe I'm just antisocial even when I try to be social.

      Hey, I have to uphold my geek status somehow, now that I'm forced to wear a suit!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Will Interest Wane? by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      The obvious answer is to completely uproot yourself and come to the US so you can use our servers, of course.

      If you roll on Sentinels or any of the other servers I play on, I'll stake ya 100 gold to get started.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    13. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks, that was a very interesting answer and it gave me more of an idea of what the game has to offer. I like games, and if there's fun to be had, I want to have it. Now I understand a bit more how it can be more fun than the average MMO.

    14. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      No problem. Get me a greencard and a job and my ass has to take the next plane 'cause I'll be already gone.

      Man, the lengths people go for a game...:)

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:Will Interest Wane? by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Why not find a good guild and finish Ulduar? And then start working on hard modes. Plenty of challenging fights in the game.

    16. Re:Will Interest Wane? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Heck, I'm falling into this cycle while waiting for patches. I'v done Uldar a few times, I know I'll never finish it. So now I'm bored and waiting for the next patch to come out and give those raids a try.

      Ulduar is not that hard. Our casual, roleplay oriented, guild on Moonguard are steadily working our way through it. We beat General Vezax two weeks ago. It requires folks to pay attention, move when needed, and target the right things at the right time. By casual, I mean that most folks are only raiding for 3-8 hours per week.

      Now at the start of 3.1, Ulduar-10 was stupid-hard. There were a lot of bad design decisions on mobs like Ignis, Iron Council, etc. that were definitely unbalanced. And the linear design of the dungeon with very few optional bosses makes for a long crawl that is difficult to clear unless you take 2 nights.

      (Our best clear time for Naxx-10 was a shade under 4 hours. Which was nice because it made Naxx a lot more enjoyable when we weren't spending 2 nights in there.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    17. Re:Will Interest Wane? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      I suspect it's server-specific.

      You might find an easier time on a roleplay server like Moonguard. There's a larger portion of the player base who are no just rushing to 80.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    18. Re:Will Interest Wane? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Hell, just take up Herbalism or Mining along with Skinning at the start and sell the raw materials at the AH. A pair of gathering professions will quickly bring in enough gold to play in comfort.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    19. Re:Will Interest Wane? by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      I wonder if the H1-B visa program here would accept "Has Ulduar experience" as a necessary technical skill?

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    20. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

      Even if I do finish Uldar I really dont care for running the same raid over and over again. Also, all this raiding stuff is made kinda pointless because the next patch regular heroics (that me and some friends have been 4 manning for the past 3 months) will start dropping emblems of conquest. That fact alone makes grinding Naxx and early Uldar kinda pointless.

      Come 3.2 I can go back to doing 5 heroics in a evening and I'll be able to get 2+ pieces of Uldar class gear a week. And that's not counting the next tier with the Argent Tournament instance.

      It is nice to know what is coming in the next patch but sometimes I wish it was more like Final Fantasy 11 and not knowing 90% of what is in the patch until everything has been .dat mined the day of the patch.

    21. Re:Will Interest Wane? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      probably because of the complaints from old players that the green crap level 71 blew the snot out of their gold raid gear they fought so hard at level 70.

      Um....what? My BT /Hyj / ZA gear lasted well up until level 76-77 or so. Even at 80 there were a few pieces I continued to use. When they added sockets at level 70, one side effect was that pieces with TONS of sockets scaled fantastically well--most quest gear doesnt have sockets. The vengeful/brutal PVP gear likewise blew the snot out of most pieces until I hit 77-78.

      The irony of the whole system, actually, was that due to how they did combat ratings, that +48 crit rating from sockets at level 70 is way better than it is at 80--it goes from being 2% to 1%. So as I leveled, my gear got worse and worse.

    22. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Wow, I disagree with you on the linear/etc nature of Naxx vs Ulduar. There are a few skippable bosses in Ulduar (Razorscale, Ignis, Iron Council) that make getting through to the end areas faster. Not enough optional bosses, but no Blizzard instance has more optional than non-optional bosses, except for Vashj and Kael'Thas at the end of the content cycle. You want to kill Kel'Thuzad? Well then.. you have to fight evvveeerrry boss in the instance. Even though we wanted to kill Kel'Thuzad for our guildies, we just didn't want to slog through all of the earlier parts of Naxx (the four wings) full of bosses with loot that no one wanted. Ulduar is a bit different... there is no realistically attainable "end boss" of the instance (Algalon doesn't count) who has better gear than the rest -- every boss drops items of the same ilvl, and "best in slot" gear seems evenly distributed among regular bosses and hard modes throughout the instance.

    23. Re:Will Interest Wane? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Also, all this raiding stuff is made kinda pointless because the next patch regular heroics (that me and some friends have been 4 manning for the past 3 months) will start dropping emblems of conquest. That fact alone makes grinding Naxx and early Uldar kinda pointless.

      Well, assuming you can get everything you want from Badges of Conquest. There's not that much you can get from there, and quite a few of the items are sub-par.

      However -- doing anything in the game could be considered "pointless" because changes down the line will make what you get now obsolete. EVERYTHING is transitory, everything is set to be replaced, all the time. There is no time when you sit down and say.. "well, ok, I'm set."

      It is nice to know what is coming in the next patch but sometimes I wish it was more like Final Fantasy 11 and not knowing 90% of what is in the patch until everything has been .dat mined the day of the patch.

      I suppose we agree there!

    24. Re:Will Interest Wane? by CapnStank · · Score: 1

      Generally "Good guild" entails scheduling. I cannot commit to a given schedule due to work, school, and social life which I value higher than WoW. So its a sacrifice I'm more than willing to take. I give up trying to hit cutting-edge content for the option to hang out with friends whenever I want without being penalized for absenteeism etc.

    25. Re:Will Interest Wane? by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      One way to look at it is expansions being an annoyance. But done right and at the right time, your players are getting bored and have finished the last expansion's content, and are thinking about quitting because they're out of things to do. An expansion gives them more to do.

      Blizzard has done great at increasing leveling speed and taking a lot of the "treadmill" out of the game. The downside is that some people with too much time on their hands complain that they WANT to have to grind for 2 months straight to get 1 level.

      Thankfully, Blizzard is mostly ignoring those people, or at least diverting them onto options like Hardcore Mode that aren't required for every player to make progress.

      It used to be that only the REALLY hardcore players had more than 1 character at max level. Nowdays most people have 2 or 3 or more. IMO this is a very good thing, and indicates the fun and pacing have been improved.

      There's also huge benefits to people rolling alts in that they get a much better perspective on balance than the standard "Buff my class!" demands.

    26. Re:Will Interest Wane? by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      Not meaning to be snarky here, but if you can't get through Ulduar and get loot from it, how do you expect to do the next raids after it? Typically content requires you be (mostly) geared from the previous tier of content.

      Have any alts? I find raiding to push my tolerance to its limits for waiting on and relying on too many other people. 10-mans aren't so bad, 25-mans...imo they deserve the loot if they can coordinate that many people :)

      But I've got way too many alts, and find it a lot of fun learning the other classes and seeing how they compare.

    27. Re:Will Interest Wane? by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Judging by PuGs, it is a skill that yo uare not able to find within the current population!

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  10. It has a story? by dj245 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I might be convinced that the game has a story, but it is presented in such a tedious and boring way that I could never be bothered to pay any attention. All I ever saw was "NPC: blah blah blah kill 20 other NPC's blah blah blah". I can think of many games with poor storylines, and many games with great storylines, but WOW is one of the only games in which I didn't care at all about the storyline.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:It has a story? by spire3661 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The storyline is awesome, but it takes a LONG time to really get to know it. Not only that there is alot of lore that goes back to WCIII. If you played that you have a much greater understanding of the lore and events.

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:It has a story? by blahplusplus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "but WOW is one of the only games in which I didn't care at all about the storyline."

      I think the problem is that the the storyline gets garbled because anyone who never played warcraft series (from the first on) won't have a damn clue WTF is going on. World of Warcraft is REALLY bad at what the RTS games were good at: Story telling.

      I really think the MMO genre is not suited to storytelling unless you go the way of Guildwars. Guildwars with more story polish would have been an outstanding single and multiplayer game, even though it's primarily "multiplayer" because the groups are so small and everything is instanced.

      Plus there's no rule saying you can't play the campaign by yourself, and they BOTS/NPC characters you can add to your party, and play in your own instance. Guildwars is pretty much one of the only games that got instancing dead on right out the gate.

      WOW is really a crap MMO from a lot of standpoints outside the aesthetics of the cartoony graphics, I couldn't stand wow when I first played it. I forced myself to play it for 2 or 3 months and it still didn't hold a candle to Blizzards previous games like Warcraft and Starcraft in terms of fun and quality.

      Most WoW'ers I suspect have really awful gaming tastes. I call it the "bottom feeders" MMO. If you're used to single player RPG's of yesteryear it breaks all the conventions and sticks in maddening things like extended travel time (instead of town portal like in say diablo 1+2 another blizzard game).

      It seems in many ways MMO's are sabotaging all the lessons learned about making fun games to extend playtime for $.

    3. Re:It has a story? by osu-neko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, there's "story" and then there's "story". I believe the GP would refer to what you're referring to as "setting" or "backstory". Lore is an important part of the setting, but it is not itself a storyline. It's the backdrop behind the main plot, but it's not the main plot.

      Nearly all MMORPG's (and some non-MMO RPG's, e.g. Morrowind), suffer from having a fabulously well developed setting and rich lore, but almost no actual story. If you're used to playing traditional RPG's, where there's an actual plot that you progress through and are an active part of, WoW will definitely leave you flat. Diablo, simplistic as it was, had a richer storyline than WoW...

      If you're looking for an MMO with a decent storyline, I'd recommend Guild Wars. It's not exactly high art, but it's a great deal better than any other MMO I've ever seen in placing you at the center of events that actually move and change the world as you go along.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    4. Re:It has a story? by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      cartoony graphics

      Has anyone else noticed this as a shibboleth of WoW-haters? I can't help wondering if there is some sort of deep neurological structure that makes certain people immune to the uncanny valley effect of supposedly "realistic" video games, as if they are in some way autistic. Perhaps they see it all as an abstraction, so that the lack of jumping and the environment-on-rails nature of Guild Wars doesn't feel constricting, and the insta-port towns conform to a conception of the game as a graph of objectives points, and not a virtual place to inhabit and explore.

    5. Re:It has a story? by Hubbell · · Score: 0

      Uh, Asheron's Call to this day still has the best lore, and even when the story arcs were shitty as fuck, the best story lines in any MMO.

    6. Re:It has a story? by mellestad · · Score: 1

      Yea, there is a lot of lore, but you could literally pick up all the interesting lore in a couple hours of reading, rather than play for a year to get it all in game. The gameplay is too drawn out and tedious. It was alright when I was younger and didn't have anything better to do, but now I just can't justify spending the amount of time WoW takes. If you can only play for an hour a day, WoW sucks. At least games like Warhammer online let you log in and have some fun, even if you only have half an hour.

    7. Re:It has a story? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      Your post had no points in it, the idea that MMO's are all about socializing is BS

      ".. and not a virtual place to inhabit and explore."

      This is the most vaguest thing I have ever read on slashdot it says nothing and it really shows how non-savvy you are about games and gaming in general. Games are about interactivity and experiencing "the best parts of the movies" where you are *in control*, the more abstract and robotic and automatic you make a game, it becomes a 3D rendered movie on a computer with only minimal input from the end user.

      After you've explored a world once it gets really fucking boring treading back and forth, and you're wasting real world time that could be spent on other games, the idea of "inhabiting a world" is bs, unless you are ultra nerd fringe gamer with no life, there's hardcore, and then there is *fringe* gamers in the casual and hardcore segments who are just F'd right up.

      They wouldn't have the RPG elements, if it was not about things to *do* within the game, fighting and equipment, quests, etc. MMO's were attempts to take single player RPG's and put them online, look at the history of RPG's

      Ultima online, before it existed - there were countless ultima single player games

      Final fantasy 11, before it existed - countless single player games.

      World of Warcraft, there are 3 prior games (and all strategy games /w small rpg elements to boot) Yet WoW absorbs the lore and story of the strategy games but it doesn't hardly do any of the great story telling the RTS games did.

      I have no issue with the cartoony graphics, I love blizzards aesthetic style and artists, my problem was with the gutting of RPG gameplay that most MMO's have done to make it easy so any idiot and non gamer can "play", by automating most of the interactive things avatars can do outside of navigation and menu clicking. Try really playing the lineage of MMO RPG's before you comment because... you are a shining example of my comment:

      "Most WoW'ers I suspect have really awful gaming tastes..... If you're used to single player RPG's of yesteryear it breaks all the conventions and sticks in maddening things like extended travel time (instead of town portal like in say diablo 1+2 another blizzard game)."

      All of which is 100% true.

    8. Re:It has a story? by mellestad · · Score: 1

      I think I agree. At least for me, WoW is just a time sink, and it is designed that way. I know lots of people love it, but it reminds me of TV sitcoms, it is just designed to be involving enough to keep you staring at the screen, but never deep enough to actually make you think enough to really become enjoyable. So in summary, WoW is like McDonalds.

    9. Re:It has a story? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Story does not matter in an MMO. Period. Simple as that. Yes, you may enjoy it if you like, but it's not important.

      WC3 was, story wise, a single player game. And there, story is an important element. Else... well, what's the difference between WC3 and any other RTS out there? The story that drove WC3 was critical to its success. Without it, it would have been just another RTS.

      In MMOs, what makes or breaks the game is rarely the story. Mostly because you can only make it so credible that you, some lowly level 1ish character, make some difference in that world. Kill 30 wolves, bring this trinket to my loved one, all "worthy" tasks for someone as low as you are at the beginning, but if you're into epic, heroic stories, you'll quit before you reach a level where you would be part of the epic, heroic story.

      It already takes a fair lot of ability to disbelieve that you're tasked with cleaning out a band of pirates when you hit 20. The first thing I'd ask is "hey, look, they are around level 20 like me. Umm... why do you sign up the five of us, send in a single level 40 and he'll do the job easily, without any danger to him, and you can rely on him being successful!"

      I mean, it's like sending in a troop of marines instead of ordering an air strike.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:It has a story? by Amorpheus_MMS · · Score: 1

      There isn't so much of a storyline (the "plot" of progression has become more pronounced in every expansion, and WOTLK did a good job at this) but most of what people call story serves purely as background. Most characters in the game have at least some that's conveyed through quest texts, and often this expands through series of quests. In an MMO the possibilities of storytelling could be much better utilised, but the world is fleshed out on such a scale that it would be a simply gargantuan task to play (not to mention develop). I can't imagine a KOTOR-style game that takes a magnitude longer to play through would keep players' attention better.

      That's the beauty of the current, sort of simple presentation there is in WoW: If all one wants to see is how many spider eyes need collecting, that's that. If somebody is actually interested in the virtual world they're exploring they'll see more than an empty void when they pull back the curtains.

    11. Re:It has a story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems to me like you were looking for Final Fantasy 7 or Diablo rather than an MMO.

    12. Re:It has a story? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "Story does not matter in an MMO. Period. Simple as that."

      You're missing the point completely, it's called world of WARCRAFT, if it was a new MMO and IP you'd have a point. And mostly I was just pointing out the fact that developers took their RPG properties and cajoled them into the "MMO" genre (if it can even be called that) while butchering the single player aspects of the IP in the process.

      You're missing the point that all MMO's heritage are from single player RPG's, so people who played the previous games in the genres have expectations about gaming conventions and good game design built up the last 20 years that "mmo designers" throughout the window just to extend playtime NOT because it is fun or entertaining, they've added annoyances and unfun things back into the game merely to milk the drooling masses for $ that is what is why MMO's tend to take game design a step back because the focus is not on making the best product but extending monthly payments of your customers.

    13. Re:It has a story? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      You summed it up succinctly, right on the money. I agree 100%, I did the details, you condensed it into a powerful phrase.

        "it is just designed to be involving enough to keep you staring at the screen, but never deep enough to actually make you think enough to really become enjoyable"

    14. Re:It has a story? by bertoelcon · · Score: 1

      The storyline is awesome, but it takes a LONG time to really get to know it. Not only that there is alot of lore that goes back to WCIII. If you played that you have a much greater understanding of the lore and events.

      Actually there is lore all the way to Warcraft: Orcs Vs. Humans, aka WC1. But only if you play the Orc campaign since the events of the human one didn't happen before the beginning of WCII.

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    15. Re:It has a story? by myowntrueself · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, something that I think a lot of people fail to notice is that extremely high detail graphics in a computer game, eg Age of Conan or Crysis, are HARDER on the eyes than the simpler graphics in, eg World of Warcraft.

      The graphics in WoW are VERY high contrast.

      This means that its very easy for the eye to pick out the details it needs in order to see what is around you.

      In high-quality graphic games the contrast is usually pretty low, they seem to compress the color palette quite a bit. This means that the eye has to work faurly hard to pick out the details of a scene.

      Age of Conan was particularly bad in this respect (ignoring the other ways in which the game was 'bad'). Almost everything in AoC is a washed out brown or green. I couldn't play for more than a few hours at a time without my eyes aching. Yes, I have a decent monitor, yes I have decent graphics card and computer.

      I can play WoW for hours on end because its very easy to look at.

      Cartoony graphics ftw!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    16. Re:It has a story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nicely put.. and it keeps changing in anachronous ways, so even if you did your homework and tried to follow it (and.. good luck with that)... you still get the odd situations where you kill boss x, then the next expansion you get to kill him when he was young, then you kill his ghost, then you're actually on his side killing an even bigger foe.... but before that... ad nauseum ad infinitum. Its so much more rewarding just to turn off your brain and concentate on instance/pvp progression and getting phatter lootz... the rest is just a DND hangover.

    17. Re:It has a story? by Akzo · · Score: 1

      Warcraft has a story and even numerous books based around it, World of Warcraft is just meant to fit into that setting. Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos had a storyline that I really liked and would recommend it if you want to learn some backstory of whats meant to be happening in other Warcraft games.

      --
      Sig is for Signature, so you don't have to manually sign every post.
    18. Re:It has a story? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Actually Blizz has been really pumpimg up the in-game story. All throughout the new Xpac you see the Lich King, and you take part in scripted epic events (Death Knight LHC confrontation, Wrath gate). Not to mention the Thrall/Garrosh fight, the Dalaran incident with Varian and the upcoming Crusaders Coliseum story.

      They have gotten much better about getting the STORY out there, a vast improvement over Vanilla/BC. In those 'xpacs' almost all story was advanced through quest text and it was hard to stitch it all together.

      --
      Good-bye
    19. Re:It has a story? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Yeah i know, but a 'literal' fuck ton of anything before WCIII has been retconned to hell and back. I knew my statement would draw this argument out right around when i was hitting submit. :)

      --
      Good-bye
    20. Re:It has a story? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "I'm not sure how I came to read your shit dribbling because it's only at 1 as I'm responding to this."

      Your post is one big long fanboy wank because you can't take any kind of WoW criticism, not only that you can't fucking read.

      I said : "WOW is really a crap MMO from a lot of standpoints outside the aesthetics of the cartoony graphics"

      Note I said : Outside the aesthetics, most of WoW is crap outside of the art and theme of the game, it's nothing new to the RPG genre and has been done better by other games years before.

      Hardly not a major point when we're rehashing the same genre and making it worse and dumbing it down so everyone with a pulse can "play".

      It's obvious that anyone that criticizes wow must be retarded isn't that right?

      You're exactly what I'm talking about: Bottom feeding gamers who can't see anything but glitter in WoW, having so little gaming experience that anything that's easy as shit and you can get up and leave the fucking room and still have the game play for you, must mean you are a very savvy gamer!

      I've watched the RPG genre decline over the years as gaming became more massified to cater to the lowest common denominator. I was hardly trolling or I would have got an instant negative mod. Mods just left it because it was true but didn't want to see me get flamed into oblivion by WoW fanboys like yourself that can't take any kind of criticism of your beloved game.

      When you can get up and go to the fucking bathroom in the middle of "the game" while in the middle of battle that is proof positive that you are not 'playing' the game, merely navigating a character from point A to point B while much automation handles the rest. Perhaps blizzard should put in "demo play", similar to the Wii will be doing soon because if certain people can't be bothered to play the game at least they can watch the robot do it all for them, at that point why not just render it out, or watch youtube videos and save the $15 a month?

      The problem with WoW is:

      "it is just designed to be involving enough to keep you staring at the screen, but never deep enough to actually make you think enough to really become enjoyable."

      And that's the whole problem with MMO's in general, for those who have not played the plethora of games over the years and seen the genre's evolve it will seem great and fun, but for those of us who have many years of games under our belt the genre is by and large a step back because they are breaking things intentionally to create needless timesinks so gamers don't whip through the content and hence this is why they are a step back in terms of game design and fun.

    21. Re:It has a story? by PaganRitual · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I was hardly trolling or I would have got an instant negative mod. Mods just left it because it was true but didn't want to see me get flamed into oblivion by WoW fanboys like yourself that can't take any kind of criticism of your beloved game.

      This is just amazing. You really are in some fantasy world where you're this all knowing fountain of gaming knowledge aren't you? This is better than I thought. A true post gets insightful mods. Your incredible self delusion that a post left at 1 is not simply because no one is reading it but actually because the mods know it's the truth but don't want to see it sullied by ... positive karma? is just amazing. I don't really know what to say, but anyway, picture me reading that with slack jaw and a head slowing turning side to side in pity.

      Shit like yours gets left at 1 because no one reads it. This is mainly because criticising WoW is what all the pseudo-intellectuals do, because itâ(TM)s such an easy target, and shooting fish in a barrel doesnâ(TM)t make for insightful or interesting reading. The same garbage is re-hashed over and over, when is issue people are taking to task are the core elements of a streamlined, casual MMO. Yours is there with the people that shit up these comments with stuff like telling people to go outside and get a life. People that play MMOs want to have an easy game experience where they can feel a sense of achievement for a lower level of input than a proper RPG. Thatâ(TM)s the whole point of the game, and if your main arguments are that MMOs arenâ(TM)t enough like single player, dynamically changing RPGs then youâ(TM)re going to have find little argument because youâ(TM)re not making an actual valid point. All people can do is take issue with the fact that youâ(TM)re completely missing the point, and that your trolling bullshit is just that, at which point people are apparently just getting defensive about their beloved game. Describing people calling you out for being stupid as WoW fanboys that canâ(TM)t take criticism of their game makes it sound like you just dribble shit and go la-la-la-canâ(TM)t hear at any responses.

      You want to blame someone? Blame the action-RPG. Blame Blizzard, but blame them for Diablo, not WoW. WoW is little more than a 3D client for a Diablo game model, but with quests tacked on so itâ(TM)s isnâ(TM)t as transparent an XP grind. Action-RPGs are the bane of the core-RPG existence, and MMOs just allow everyone else to see your purple gear instead of you gently caressing the screen by yourself. The funny thing is that the action-RPG genre like Diablo or Titanâ(TM)s Quest is much more lowest common denominator than your standard MMO, itâ(TM)s just bare bones kill/loot/kill with no interesting background outside of âStay a while and listenâ, yet that phrase is known much more than anything Minsc might say. Yet dumping shit on MMOs is what all the blowhards do because it makes them feel like theyâ(TM)re making a point - when they really arenâ(TM)t - because they are much more popular in the general gaming, and casual gaming, population.

      I had my âoesick of bullshit on the internetâ release with my first response, so I canâ(TM)t be bothered going any further than this. We argued on the internet, so, just like the special olympics, even though you believe you won (and that the mods donâ(TM)t +1 you because of ⦠I just canâ(TM)t get over the fact that you believe that, have I just fallen for an amazingly good troll?), from the outside looking in, weâ(TM)re both so very retarded.

      Ha ha ha do I need to comment on the fact that youâ(TM)re now +1 and Iâ(TM)m flamebait. OH NO THIS MUST MEAN THE MODS DONâ(TM)T AGREE WITH YOU, or something. How does this work in your fantasy world again?

    22. Re:It has a story? by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Death Knight introductory sequence has another odd moment to it - something I found novel and rather fun. When you walk into Orgrimmar to face Thrall after your "conversion", the locals want to lynch you. They don't, but the tension it builds is remarkable. I've never seen another game where you were hit with rotten fruit and insults by NPC's on a quest, rather than swords clubs arrows and spells (sounds like a card deck, eh?).

      "The Scourge killed my family, you monster! (FWAP)". You finally get to Thrall and face "You have seconds to live." I nearly wee'd meself.

      In my opinion the game play has become more complex, the UI change on the various quest mounts is refreshing, the game play changes a lot - jousting takes an entirely different skill set, for example. This is not the button mashing your parents knew! Add in the "world instancing" of places like Icecrown and we have moved far, far beyond the old kill-loot-sell-equip of MMORPG's of old.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    23. Re:It has a story? by irix · · Score: 1

      After you've explored a world once it gets really fucking boring treading back and forth, and you're wasting real world time that could be spent on other games

      You do realize that WoW has put in city portals, a 30-min CD on hearthstones, summoning stones at instances and given Warlocks what effectively amount to portable summoning stones. Right? Or is this a rant about WoW from 3 years ago?

      Most WoW'ers I suspect have really awful gaming tastes..... If you're used to single player RPG's of yesteryear it breaks all the conventions and sticks in maddening things like extended travel time (instead of town portal like in say diablo 1+2 another blizzard game).

      I played the single player RPGs of yesteryear in to the ground and I loved many of them. Besides your extended travel time canard do you have anything else to add besides insulting the game taste of 11 million people with one broad stroke?

      --

      Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
    24. Re:It has a story? by ajs · · Score: 1

      If you want to follow the story behind wow, can I suggest WoWWIki? It's got just about everything about the WoW lore all in one place. Good places to start are outlined in a recent post on my blog about WoW lore and what to browse through on WoWwiki.

    25. Re:It has a story? by ajs · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, there's "story" and then there's "story".

      Just to give you a sense of how seriously different WoW (as of the Wrath expansion) is on this point, let me describe the events of the Wrathgate from the Horde point of view (warning, spoilers):

      • FIrst you do some generic questing.
      • Then you are sent to the Wrathgate to help with the effort against the Lich King
      • In a cut-scene, the Lich King appears, slaughters a major character and is then attacked by a rogue faction of the Horde, killing another major lore character
      • Once the dust has settled (cut scene is over) you are now in the same place, but there are burning bodies everywhere
      • You are sent back to the Horde home city, which now has refugees who were never there before and you're informed that the Horde has descended into a civil war and a major city (Undercity) has been lost to opposing forces
      • You then proceed to join two of the horde leaders to wipe out the incursion, where you kill another major lore character who has been working along-side the leader of Undercity since the game was launched.

      The ability to personalize a zone to a particular player's progression through a quest line means that they can change anything they like, and to some extent things change expansion-to-expansion as well (e.g. the return of King Wrynn on the Allinace side, which replaced the faction leader for the Alliance, a major change to the World PvP game).

    26. Re:It has a story? by ajs · · Score: 1

      WOW is really a crap MMO from a lot of standpoints outside the aesthetics of the cartoony graphics,

      Such as....

      it still didn't hold a candle to Blizzards previous games like Warcraft and Starcraft

      Not MMOs...

      If you're used to single player RPG's of yesteryear it breaks all the conventions

      You're comparing apples to oranges and complaining that apples don't taste anything like oranges. Well... yes, but not really relevant to the quality of apples or oranges.

      Out of curiosity, how far did you get in WoW? If all you did was level grind, then I can see why you didn't enjoy it much. Did you try out PvP, tradeskills, gathering, exploring the world, roleplaying, world events/holidays, Darkmoon Faire? If you played now, you could also explore the achievement system, daily quests, arena, and a number of other features added since launch.

      Level grinding is there to slow you down so that by the time you get to max level, you've learned how to use your abilities. It's boring for a reason, but that's just a good reason to take breaks and try other aspects of the game.

    27. Re:It has a story? by ajs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your post had no points in it, the idea that MMO's are all about socializing is BS

      MMOs are about ... well, they're not about anything. They're what you put into them. WoW can be about raiding every week to get a shiny new toy.

      It can be about taking out opposing players in the arena.

      It can be about building the perfect "RP set" of gear with the perfect look to match the background you've written for your character.

      It can be about crushing the competition in the auction house.

      It can be about collecting every non-combat pet in the game.

      It can be about exploring the world (more on that below).

      For many people I know, WoW is just where they log in to talk to their friends.

      After you've explored a world once it gets really fucking boring treading back and forth

      There's an achievement in WoW for having explored the entire world. One of my characters has it, and it's a bit of a lie because you only have to visit the major parts of each zone. Even after questing in every zone while I leveled, there was still a good solid two weeks of evenings I put in going to all of the places that were left. WoW is *huge*... exploring isn't something you just do in a week and are done. Amusingly, even after having done that I found myself, today, in a cave saying, "oh hey, I've never seen this cave before!"

      You're really not speaking with any authority, here.

    28. Re:It has a story? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "You're comparing apples to oranges and complaining that apples don't taste anything like oranges."

      Games are fun or they are not, you don't say "Is an x type game, so I have to believe it is fun".

      You've also missed the gestalt of what I was saying.

      These games came well before "MMO's" (really RPG's with n many more players, except with the gameplay dumbed down to make it easy for the lowest common denominator to access the game).

      The companies shoe-horned their single player properties and bastardized them into everquest clones because they saw the money being made. Not the other way around they were not "MMO's", MMO's are not "their own genre", all MMO's are single player games shoe-horned and bastardized to fit the "any idiot can play" model where they take a formerly singleplayer game gut it of it's more complex elemeents, make sure it plays like past RPG MMO's, gussy it up and call it an "MMO" and pretend it is its own "genre".

      There was ultima before there was ultima online, there was final fantasy before there was FF11, they were both RPG's before and after and not much changed. Hence my points being made about how devs took all the lessons they learned universally about what makes a game fun and then taking the ginsu knife to them when they bastardize their single player games and shoehorn them into for pay "MMO's". I hate the term personally because it's *not a genre* since most online rpg's shard their playerbases so they aren't so "mmo".

      RPG Games or games with RPG elements or universal elements of gaming don't suddenly stop being games or having comparable elements because they are labelled "MMO's", the term "MMO" just means sharded multiplayer RPGS that allow many players to connect to the RPG world, but they are still RPG's and still videogames with common universal elements across all genre's (cinematics, story telling, RPG elements, quests, etc). They share all the same conventions with single player RPG's.

    29. Re:It has a story? by zwei2stein · · Score: 1

      Cartooony graphics? Oh noes! Serious gamer can't be seen playing something that look cartoony that just can't be fun!

      That is *prefect* graphics for this game for these reasons:

        * Pretty much anyone can run it. And have great performance. Whole point of looking cartoony is that it lets artists get away with low-poly and low-res models that would look terrible if they attempted realistic look.
        * It is iconic and stylish and well made. Very recognizable, very easy to look at.
        * It avoids uncanny valley.

      I'd take this anytime over boring, resource-hog, uncanny valley dwellers.

      --
      -- Technology for the sake of technology is as pathetic as eschewing technology because it's technology.
    30. Re:It has a story? by Braintrust · · Score: 1

      "Mods just left it because it was true but didn't want to see me get flamed into oblivion by WoW fanboys like yourself that can't take any kind of criticism of your beloved game."

      I, for one, would have modded you down.

      --
      Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
    31. Re:It has a story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaks much, says little... Must be what blahplusplus means...

    32. Re:It has a story? by Canazza · · Score: 1

      Most memorable quote ever: "SCOURGE! Gamon will protect you!"

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    33. Re:It has a story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just have to say: It's "MMORPGs" and "RPGs", not "MMORPG's" and "RPG's".

    34. Re:It has a story? by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      i love the way GW handled moving the story forward. If you help the farmer get the bees back in their apiary, they STAYED in the apiary. The didn't reset. i hated that in WoW. No matter how many whatsits i kill, there's always more. i found the hirelings to be useless in the second phase of the game (where i quit).

      The cartoony graphics makes the game easier to make look good on low end machines. It's basically inspired by Warhammer. i found MRPGs that when for realism (like Vanguard) to run slower and look uglier. Going for a stylized look makes (most) viewers easier to please.

      You might want to check out Aion (by the same company that did GW). It's BEAUTIFUL. Aside from adding flight, it's a reskinned EQ/WoW.

      For a truly different MMO experience, check out PlanetSide (an MFPS). Runs on old machines, no noob stomping (shallow power curve), no grinding, no farming, no twinking, no gathering flowers to you can gather other flowers, no quests to bring back rat spleens. It's all about skill, understanding the game and being in an organized team. You can solo, but it'll be dull unless you're a cloaker. It's pure PvP. The only AIs are the robotic turrets. There are only two instances, North America and Europe.

      Make a Vanu Sovereignty character on the Gemini (North America) server. Log in around 730 eastern. Go to the tower next to Warpgate tower B. You'll see 30 to 50 of us gathering for the raid. Look for an outfit (guild) called Ghosts of the Revolution.

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    35. Re:It has a story? by itof500 · · Score: 1

      I think this post is really quite insightful. I play with our family quild that consists of Dad (me), Mom, Son, Daughter, Daughter-in-law, and various uncles, aunts, nieces and nephews. There is a large range of ages and interests in the game. I'm continually amazed that WoW can accommodate my raiding son, my pvp nieces, and the wife who loves nothing more than doing dailies and accumulating accomplishments. The game has an enormous breadth of appeal. Really a remarkable piece of work.

      Garn of Stormwind, out

    36. Re:It has a story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems in many ways MMO's are sabotaging all the lessons learned about making fun games to extend playtime for $.

      Really? It seems Blizzard is focused on smoothing out the amount of grinding that needs to be done, gaining money is no longer running through lower level instances like Scarlet Monestary, but you can do dailies and what not. It's kind of difficult not to be able to acquire a few thousand gold at any one point.

      The time is takes to level from 1-70 was also cut down when Wotlk was coming out. There is also heirloom weapons and shoulders (and a chest piece coming in 3.2) that levels with your character and the shoulders and chest will stack together giving you 20% extra XP on mobs, plus another 10% if you are rested.

      They've also undertuned Naxxramas in Woltk so players can get into the raiding scene without having to run endless amounts of heroics like it used to be.

      It sounds like they are really trying to make the game more fun while making money at the same time, and if you don't find the content challenging there is always hard modes. (although some people claim they aren't that hard, but unless you are downing Algalon weekly, I don't see how that can be the case)

      If anything there are too many bad players that are walking around in the game, who don't want to put and time into their character.

    37. Re:It has a story? by Deosyne · · Score: 1

      When I created my first Death Knight, some Alliance folk had rolled through and killed off Thrall just prior to my arrival. I spent about a half hour sitting around the throne room taking dozens of apples, bananas, and spit balls to the head intermingled with a fusillade of insults before I logged out and came back later. It wasn't that bad since me and this chick who was also waiting to turn in a quest to Thrall were cracking jokes the whole time, but it is one hell of a bottleneck.

    38. Re:It has a story? by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      sounds like you are saying that motorcycles (Single Player games) are like Buses (MMOs) because they both have wheels, engines, and seats (story telling, RPG elements, quests). However, it is the multiple people part that makes a big difference between the two.

      Although I do beleive that PvP games truely embrace the MMO part of MMORPG then PvE games. Simple because in many PvE games, liek WoW, you can play it as a single player game. However, in a PvP game, ther eis no single player mode.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  11. Re: the islands by Wingman+5 · · Score: 1

    Bullshit. All you need to do is jump off the zeppelin that goes out of UC at the last second, feather fall and you can walk on the edge of the map. where the zone ends. you can not swim across the ocean. Yes there is a dev island, if you are on a private server you can warp yourself there. but there is no way to get there using the public realms.

  12. In other news... by Eil · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Are questions as headlines overrated? Film at 11.

    1. Re:In other news... by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      I wish I could get a "punctuationpunditry" tag going on here.

  13. How the... by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How the hell did speculation about the -name- of a possible future WoW expansion make the front page? I like games and MMOs, but this is beyond boring.

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    1. Re:How the... by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      News for Nerds.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
    2. Re:How the... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stuff That Matters

    3. Re:How the... by tiger32kw · · Score: 1

      better than michael jackson news... but not by much

    4. Re:How the... by ajs · · Score: 1

      The speculation about the name, had you read even the rest of the summary (not suggesting you have to go out of your way to RTFA, here), has lead to quite a lot of information about the expansion itself. If it is, indeed "Cataclysm" that almost certainly means that the next expansion will focus on the central ocean of Azeroth and the swirling vortex at its center which was formed in an even of the same name (AKA The Great Sundering where the single continent was split in half 10,000 years prior to the game's timeframe).

      Thus we know that the the primary antagonists would be the Naga and there are almost certain to be strong Goblin involvement in the expansion.

      If you want to learn more, perhaps you could RTFA.

  14. Re: the islands by mauthbaux · · Score: 1
    Okay, I need to get my facts straight. After doing some reading up on the topic (too late obviously) it is not clear to me that this guy's story was crap. The GM island *does* in fact exist as confirmed by WoWwiki. The islands are in fact, closed zones; Tel Abim and Zandalar specifically. The exploit to get these islands (here I go with the crazy theories again) is covered in a Thottbot post on the Levitate spell.

    [...] I mounted, and as I lept off into the horizon, I casted levitate. I came to a point where the map disappeared, but the water continued to stretch out into the distance.
    Some theorize that this is where GM Island is located.
    Okay, so we all know that GM Island is in an instance now. But like any instance, there's a non-instance version of it. Like when you set old world instances to "Heroic" and walk behind the portals. GM Island wasn't always an instance, and programmers just don't delete environment from the game. Case in point, Old Ironforge and Ironforge Airport.
    Granted, you'd have to walk pretty far, assuming GM Island IS in that direction...
    Moving on, it's unreachable alone...attempted it. However, multiple priests together could do this easy. Have 5 or so in a group together so they can heal off of each other with renew and circle of healing. Another tip, wear +healing gear that has no stamina. Fatigue hits for 20% of your max health every 1-3 seconds. Low health means low damage, high healing means you can heal over it. 5 priests means you can have a few of them sit back and relax while the others cast, so not everyone wastes mana.
    If you are really interested in doing this, make it 4 priests and a warlock.
    "Harmonex wishes to summon you to GM Island." [...] Of course, this is all under the assumption that GM Island even exists on the main map...

    --
    "Operating systems suck: you're better off using only the BIOS" --trainsaw.com
  15. Re:I hate WoW players. by Dutchmaan · · Score: 4, Funny

    "So, WoW losers ... grow up. Ditch the game, have a real life, and hang out with real humans"

    I find this statement ironic coming from someone posting an entire books worth of trolling on slashdot.

  16. Re:The next World of Warcraftt Expansion by Ifandbut · · Score: 5, Funny

    You might even find some +12 Real Pussy...

    In my experience, not only is +1 Real Pussy extremely hard to obtain, it is often not worth the effort.

  17. Re: the islands by CRiMSON · · Score: 1

    Bullshit, Jesus do you believe anything someone tells you?

    --
    oogly boogly!
  18. Re: the islands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your friend lied to you. Water walking never prevented fatigue.

  19. Re:I hate WoW players. by Ifandbut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why does anyone play a game? To have fun. To some people playing a game is alot more fun then dealing with awkward social situations. My best friends are people I have met through MMOs. When you met someone in a MMO you at least know that they also enjoy the game, so you have that much in common. When I met a random person in the "real world" I have no idea if I'll have anything in common besides the need to breath, eat, and sleep.

    Believe it or not, there IS hope. I have a buddy who gave up WoW entirely. Now he has a life, a job, and GASP - even a girlfriend. He is actually winning at life and says that he can't believe how much time he was wasting on such a stupid game.

    You can't win at life either. All you can do is attempt to pass your DNA on to the next generation and figure out a comfortable way to live until you die. I have come to realize that 90% of life is just trying to pass the time until you die. The other 10% is in pursuit of some "legacy" that will never matter or even be recorded in history.

    Playing life is just as pointless as playing WoW. They are both treadmills and neither mater when all is said and done. However, life is 10000x more boring then WoW could ever be.

  20. He has no idea what he's talking about by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maybe it is a lame joke, maybe he's a WoW hater who wishes it was the last, whatever the case it has no basis in reality. Currently, there are over 11 million subscribers to WoW where a subscriber is defined as someone who has paid to play in the last month. That number continues to increase, and accounts for about 60% of all MMO players. Eventually, it's popularity will peak and numbers will start to wane, but not at this point. Right now, it is still extremely popular.

    Well, as you can probably guess, Blizzard and more specifically Vivendi (their parent company) aren't stupid and wish to make as much money as possible. That means they'll keep releasing expansions and content for WoW because they want to keep all those subscribers. They aren't going to say "Let's just let the game atrophy and have everyone run off to play something else." They want those dollars, they will keep developing it.

    What's more, an MMO doesn't even have to be growing to be worth developing content for. It just has to have enough players such that the money pays the bills to run the game, pay the developers of the new content, and make a profit. Thus you find even old games are still under active development. Everquest released their 15th expansion last October, and they've got a 16th planned for this November. It has been running for a decade, and the sequel has already been out for a couple years. However people still want to play, so Sony is still making content for it.

    So no, this isn't the last WoW expansion. They are going to keep working on that game to keep getting subscribers for as long as it is profitable. To do anything else would be to incur the wrath of their shareholders.

    1. Re:He has no idea what he's talking about by Binary+Boy · · Score: 1

      Just one minor correction - Vivendi is no longer Blizzard's parent; Activision Blizzard is.

    2. Re:He has no idea what he's talking about by 2meen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, you're both correct. Blizzard used to be owned by Vivendi Games, who in turn was fully owned by Vivendi (a French company). Vivendi Games and Activision merged to form the publicly traded Activision Blizzard. Vivendi currently own 54% of Activision Blizzard ( http://www.vivendi.com/vivendi/-Group- ).

    3. Re:He has no idea what he's talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Although I agree with your general points - WOW remains popular and this is not going to be the last expansion, you are inaccurate on several points. There are not 11 million subscribers by your definition, more like 5 million since the Chinese players were blocked (over one month ago)and it is unlikely they will be back anytime soon. http://www.marbridgeconsulting.com/marbridgedaily/2009-06-29/article/27358/rumor_netease_wow_approval_process_postponed The idea that WOW accounts for 60% of all MMO players is a fantasy. Possibly WOW accounts for 60% of western subscription model games, certainly nothing remotely close to that when one includes ftp MMOs - which are played by MMO players. There is also evidence that the ftp/microtransaction model is the growing business model for MMOs. I speculate it will become the dominent MMO business model in the next five years or so.

    4. Re:He has no idea what he's talking about by Vicegrip · · Score: 1

      It may be popular. But in my limited sample of the world, on my server, there is a lot of frustration with the way the game is currently being developed. Many of the long standing players I know quite frankly are already bored just months after the last expansion. Bored because in five years, Blizzard hasn't changed the formula of the game on bit. Bored and frustrated with the way Blizzard is managing changes to character classes.

      Ultima Online, back in 1997, had more variety for game content and far less resources.

      In addition, Blizzard appears to be getting quite a bit more touchy dealing with community feedback. Mass deletions of forum posts that are complaining about an issue might look good for forum maintenance, but it doesn't actually stop the bitching.

      Maybe it's arrogance from their successes.. who knows. What I do know is that it's currently debatable whether many of the people I know will still be around when the Lich King content is introduced. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a collapse in their subscribed base over the next year for Warcraft.

      --
      Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
    5. Re:He has no idea what he's talking about by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      You have to realize that people have been saying the exact same things since launch day basically. Sure, someday WoW will cease but you can be sure it's not going to be anytime soon.

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
  21. Ummm 11 million people care by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That you don't like WoW is fine, but it is a rather stupid thing to say "Does anyone care?" Yes, WoW players care and there are a LOT of WoW players. It is one of the best selling games of all time and is THE best selling MMO of all time by a wide margin. Thus, a lot of people care what is going on with it.

    So if WoW isn't your thing then don't play it. However don't act surprised that a large number of techies are interested in it. It is an extremely popular game.

    1. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by Xtravar · · Score: 1

      Michael Jackson died. Apparently millions of people care. But really, who cares?

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    2. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by Opportunist · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I'm fairly sure most WoW players of today will not care. They will care that there is new content, they will care that there are new areas, they will care that there is a higher level cap, they will care that there is new stuff, they will care that there is some new additional goodie they can tack to their character...

      They will not care what it's called. I'm fairly sure you could call it "The quest for even more loot" and people will buy it. You could call that endboss drop "the superspecialawesome axe of leet" and they will go in and farm it, they will equip it and be proud to have it.

      Name does not matter. Neither does the story. Not at all.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      For techies the tech could also be interesting, keeping all those servers running with all those players is quite an achievement in my opinion :)

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
    4. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, that's pretty much wrong. A lot of raiders care about the story and the lore, and many players absolutely love the graphics of a zone like Grizzly Hills or Nagrand. A plot about something that happen a LONG time ago is pretty interesting, as is the speculation over which new class will likely accompany such an expansion... a new healer of some sort? From the past?

      There's a hell of a lot of stuff outside of the few kids that play the game just for bigger numbers. The rest of us like bigger numbers but also want context!

    5. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by ajs · · Score: 1

      Michael Jackson died. Apparently millions of people care. But really, who cares?

      No, what you mean is "really, I don't care." That's fine, but again, you're dead-wrong if you think that there aren't a chunky fraction of those 11 million who care In fact, I suspect they care even more now that China managed a world-first takedown. That will likely spur a new wave of Asian interest.

      For me, mostly it's about the lore. I really enjoy seeing where they'll take it. Sadly, most of the really good bits (like the curse of flesh) are spoiled for me when the beta hits, and I never get to discover them on my own for the first time.

    6. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by ajs · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly sure most WoW players of today will not care. They will care that there is new content, they will care that there are new areas, they will care that there is a higher level cap, they will care that there is new stuff, they will care that there is some new additional goodie they can tack to their character...

      They will not care what it's called. I'm fairly sure you could call it "The quest for even more loot" and people will buy it. You could call that endboss drop "the superspecialawesome axe of leet" and they will go in and farm it, they will equip it and be proud to have it.

      Name does not matter. Neither does the story. Not at all.

      There are certainly players that match your description. They *might* even be a majority, but I doubt it. There's a lot of investment in this game, and many players are just as invested in the lore as the size of their sword. Sure, you have the "must have latest goodie" types, but Blizzard changed course on design in Wrath because the community didn't think TBC felt "Warcraftish". There are streams of complaints from the community, not that the art was bad, but that it didn't feel like Warcraft, and rocketships, however cool, don't really feel right in the setting.

    7. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Yea, that's pretty much wrong. A lot of raiders care about the story and the lore, and many players absolutely love the graphics of a zone like Grizzly Hills or Nagrand. A plot about something that happen a LONG time ago is pretty interesting, as is the speculation over which new class will likely accompany such an expansion... a new healer of some sort? From the past?

      There's a hell of a lot of stuff outside of the few kids that play the game just for bigger numbers. The rest of us like bigger numbers but also want context!

      Agreed. It was the lore that originally got me interested in Warcraft, and a large part of what keeps me playing is the new content that they bring out at roughly the speed I can experience it.

      The larger numbers are starting to worry me, though. Level cap damage numbers in the hundreds, as happened in the vanilla game, are fine. You start by hitting for 8-10 or something, so after 60 levels, hitting for a few hundred is a nice amount of progress. Vanilla -> Burning Crusade wasn't that much of a jump damage-wise, although it was a huge jump in player health. Now, in Wrath, the damage has jumped hugely. I understand the "gear reset every expansion" mentality but I think they've taken it a little too far for mid-gear-level characters. A level 70 in Kara gear could put out around 1000dps, a level 80 in 10-man Naxxramas gear can put out 3000-4000dps for some classes. If they're going to reset gear as savagely for the next expansion, we'll have players in level 90 blues doing 10k DPS. This is OK in principle, but numbers are getting too big to give the same 'gut feel' response that they did when they were three digits. Think about any of the vehicle fights where you're doing 6+ digit damage every swing - it stops being "woah, I crit for 1450, that's a new personal best" and starts being "big string of yellow numbers".

      Honestly, if they're going to go for more than one expansion after the current one they're going to need to do some kind of renormalization. Maybe like they did with boss health numbers in WotLK, they'll start displaying damage numbers as "132k" or "365k (Critical)".

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    8. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by Talderas · · Score: 2, Funny

      My experience shows that a lot of the top raiding guilds are full of people who don't care about Lore. Since the lore conclusion comes through the end raids, that means the fraction of players that can witness the end of the lore, is made up largely of those that don't care. When I start talking about the relevance of certain parts of a raid to lore I usually get the following responses on vent. "That's nice Tald, now shut up and tank." "Tald, no one cares about lore, shut the fuck up." "Tald, it's cool that you like the lore and all, but you're never going to get a girlfriend talking like that." That last one usually comes from a female guild member. =(

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    9. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Bah, ignore 'em. There's one kind of girl that *loves* a scholar, even (especially?) a video game lore scholar. And that's a librarian chick. And you know how hot librarian chicks are when they take off their glasses and let down their hair! :D

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    10. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by Talderas · · Score: 1

      I don't play WoW to find chicks that live across the nation from me. That's why I take fencing lessons.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    11. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by brkello · · Score: 1

      No, you are wrong. Lore is a big part of the game and the name gives away a lot of what the expansion will cover. It will cause a lot of speculation on what major character will play a role and what areas will be used. A lot of people love this stuff and the speculations.

      So again, you don't care. Other people really do.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    12. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      Hah, wow. Relevant to both fractoid's and Taldren's posts, I met a librarian while taking fencing lessons. We began dating, and she eventually broke my heart for reasons I still don't know, 20 years later. So, be careful - it could happen to YOU :-).

    13. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Fencing? You mean, like, selling stolen jewelery or something? :P

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    14. Re:Ummm 11 million people care by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      I don't care about MJ. However, there are a lot of people that DO care. All of those tabloids that you and I think are trash, well, there are a lot of them all selling the same stories because people buy it. Why do people buy it? Because they care. So yes, people care.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  22. Expansion List by cyxxon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Haven't seen this posted, so here we go... this list was "leaked" or whatever before TBC, AFAIK remember...

    - Draenor Set

    Azuremyst Isle - 1 to 10
    Bloodmyrk Isle - 10 to 20

    Eversong Forest - 1 to 10
    Quel'thalas - 10 to 20
    Hellfire Peninsula - 58 to 62
    Zangarmarsh - 60 to 64
    Terokkar Forest - 61 to 65
    The Deadlands - 63 to 67
    Nagrand - 64 to 68
    Blade's Edge Mountains - 66 to 70
    Netherstorm - 67 to 70
    Shadowmoon Valley - 69 to 70

    - Northrend Set

    Borean Tundra - 67 to 70
    Howling Fjord - 67 to 70
    Dragonblight - 69 to 72
    Grizzly Hills - 70 to 73
    Crystalsong Forest - 72 to 75
    Zul'drak - 73 to 76
    Sholazar Basin - 75 to 79
    Storm Peaks - 76 to 80
    Icecrown Glacier - 78 to 80

    - Maelstrom Set

    Gilneas - 77 to 80
    Grim Batol - 78 to 81
    Kul Tiras - 79 to 82
    Kezan - 81 to 86
    Tel Abim - 83 to 85
    Zandalar - 84 to 87
    Plunder Isle - 86 to 88
    The Broken Isles - 87 to 90
    The Maelstrom - 89 to 90

    - Plane Set

    Pandaria - 1 to 10
    Hiji - 10 to 20

    Wolfenhold - 1 to 10
    Xorothian Plains - 10 to 20

    The Green Lands - 88 to 91
    The Dying Paradise - 91 to 94
    The Emerald Nightmare - 94 to 97
    The Eye of Ysera - 97 to 100

    Deephome - 88 to 91
    Skywall - 91 to 94
    The Abyssal Maw - 94 to 97
    The Firelands - 97 to 100

    - Legion Set

    K'aresh - 96 to 99
    Argus Meadowlands - 97 to 100
    Mac'Aree - 99 to 100
    Maw of Oblivion - 100+

    1. Re:Expansion List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Expansion List by ajs · · Score: 1

      You should note that that came from a forum post on Alakhazam, and that it's almost certainly a fake. However, it's also brilliant. It outlines the future of WoW with the kind of detail that only someone who had spent a lot of time on the lore could. I doubt that it was real, but I also wish I knew who did it so that I could congratulate them.

    3. Re:Expansion List by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      They did a really good job, but yeah, it's fake.

      Blizzard will NEVER release the Pandarans as a playable race. Too bound up in the politics of China, a major player base.

    4. Re:Expansion List by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      What if they release it as Pandarans in the US/Europe/etc. and just use a slightly different model+word in the Chinese version to avoid any reference to pandas?

      Make em the grizzlies or furbolgs, something close enough to share content, but far enough to avoid any political nonsense.

  23. Re: the islands by mauthbaux · · Score: 1
    From my original post:

    Obviously this is all unconfirmed at best. and I still have some serious doubts about the story,

    and

    Again, this is all just rumors and lies at this point

    And from my subsequent post

    Okay, I need to get my facts straight. After doing some reading up on the topic (too late obviously) it is not clear to me that this guy's story was crap.

    Now, what part of all that indicated that I "believe anything someone tells [me]?" I apologize if my post came across as if I were preaching doctrine from the mouth of God Himself, but I thought I was pretty clear that this was all speculation.

    --
    "Operating systems suck: you're better off using only the BIOS" --trainsaw.com
  24. Re:I hate WoW players. by Moridineas · · Score: 1

    Playing life is just as pointless as playing WoW. They are both treadmills and neither mater when all is said and done. However, life is 10000x more boring then WoW could ever be.

    I think this is why many people are religious :-P

  25. Re: the islands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I admitted as much in a later post.

    You are correct that water walking does not prevent fatigue. However, prior to patch 1.7 (2005-09-22) damage absorption abilities did reduce the damage received from fatigue.
    From the patch notes, under the "General" heading we see the entry: "Damage absorption no longer protects against falling, drowning, or fatigue damage." In addition, fatigue damage can *still* be healed thru. From WoWwiki:

    Damage done by fatigue can be healed. It is possible for a low level healer to swim through the fatigue whilst healing itself and regenerating sufficient mana to continue infinitely, and reach often unrendered places that are otherwise impossible to reach.

    So while I was incorrect in the mechanic, and the story I was told was a lie, it's still fairly likely that some of these places are in fact reachable; at least in theory.

  26. Re: the islands by mauthbaux · · Score: 1

    Yes, I was incorrect. Please see the clarification I've since made. I'll accept the blame for having posted something for which I don't have sufficient justification or evidence. Feel free to mod down the original comment and the disinformation it contains.

    --
    "Operating systems suck: you're better off using only the BIOS" --trainsaw.com
  27. What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like how the summary goes through the trouble of explaining the backstory of the Maelstrom and islands and what not.

    As if everyone here doesn't already know.

  28. Test Server named Maelstrom by VGPowerlord · · Score: 3, Informative

    peculation began when Blizzard trademarked Cataclysm recently, and then later when a test server briefly popped up with the word 'Maelstrom' in its name.

    A test server named Maelstrom? Now I know they're pulling shit out of their ass, as Maelstrom is an existing RPPvP server that launched in September of 2006.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    1. Re:Test Server named Maelstrom by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      It says it has Maelstrom "in" the name. It doesn't say the name "is" Maelstrom. Big difference.

    2. Re:Test Server named Maelstrom by ajs · · Score: 1

      The test server was called "Maelstrom Test" which could be a copy of the existing live server, but given that it was yanked immediately and that it's the likely subject of the next expansion which Blizzard has said is in the works, it's more likely to be their internal test host for the expansion.

    3. Re:Test Server named Maelstrom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would someone mod this up. There have been plenty of reports and even a thread on the WoW Forums (which got deleted) about this test realm that appeared for a few minutes.

      Just because there is a realm already named Malestorm doesn't mean they can't make a test server with the same name. There's a lot of EU server names that share the same names with US servers.

  29. Re:I hate WoW players. by Doctor+Morbius · · Score: 1

    Tae Kwon Do is a waste of time. Sitting around shooting the breeze with friends is a waste of time etc. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it sucks. Other people can say the same thing about stuff you like to do. The only legitimate comment you can make is that you don't like to do it. To each his own.

    --
    If I disagree with you it's because you are wrong.
  30. I've got Another Name For... by Xin+Jing · · Score: 1

    "an event that created a swirling vortex of water and mystical energies...", but it's the result of a much more mundane lowering of a toilet flush handle.

  31. Re:I hate WoW players. by Gravedigger3 · · Score: 1

    life is 10000x more boring then WoW could ever be.

    I agreed with everything you wrote save this. If you think killing 30 bears and ripping their hearts out to bring back to some random guy is fun in a video game I assure you it is 10000x less boring to do in real life.

    --
    All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be. -PF
  32. Hahahaha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NO LOVE FOR PILLAR HUGGERS !

  33. Re:The next World of Warcraftt Expansion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might even find some +12 Real Pussy...

    Shouldn't that be 12+ Real Pussy?

  34. Re:The next World of Warcraftt Expansion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For real, the economy on this server is way broken cuz the +1 real pussy is soo overpriced.

  35. Re:I hate WoW players. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WoW vs Real Life?
    It's relative. If you doing nothing but idle by killing boars & bunnies all the time, eventually your going to have that meaningless suck feeling. If you do the same in RL eventually it's going to suck also. WoW & RL both provide enjoyment based upon your characters quests & leveling and both only give you what you put into it.

    But RL, unlike WoW, your character loses leveling over time if you don't keep grinding.
    Now get out there, do some job quests, pickup some sweet loot, treat yourself to some sweet gear every so often and keep on leveling that RL character.

  36. Sony / Everquest vs competition by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
    The Everquest franchise is still being vigorously defended by Sony. I have more than a strong suspicion that Sony scuttled Vanguard to keep the old EQ rolling. I moved to Vanguard after EQ. It was fun for a while, even got my little Raki Sorc "Glert" up to 50. But the day Sony bought out the Sigil IP and sacked the original development team, things went down hill in a hurry. Bugs weren't fixed, the wrong things were developed, the quality of rendering didn't cover the tendency to log on inside a rock. I am morally certain Sony bought and trashed the franchise to protect EQ.

    In the mean time, WoW carries on with it's cartoonish graphics and enormous content and I think they've managed to break the gold farmers that killed EQ for me. Bind on account gear at the very high level that you can pass down to yours - and nobody else's - twinks are a rare bit of gaming insight. I am just very glad that Blizzard is too large for Sony to buy, and I will probably continue to play WoW even after seeing it all through two level 80's. I'm still discovering new content.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  37. Nerf Paladins! by NoSleepDemon · · Score: 1

    I'm far off topic here, but I couldn't but help notice your cool sig, I've used that very sound in the beginning of some electronica I made, it is awesome.

  38. Re:I hate WoW players. by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

    Now get out there, do some job quests, pickup some sweet loot, treat yourself to some sweet gear every so often and keep on leveling that RL character.

    I had a decently well paying "engineering" job after college. You know what I realized, that I'd rather be running naxx for the 100th time then doing the same boring job every fucking day. At least I can watch tv while raiding.

    Either way it is all pointless. Just a way to waste time till you die.

  39. Umm... what? by tsmit · · Score: 1

    I really have no idea what this post just said. You kids and your new fangled technology these days. Tweets and facebooks and night elfs...

    --
    Yes, my girlfriend is a BitchX
  40. No. not fucking naga please. by unity100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    one of the shittiest creatures in-game, which many people cant fit into a place and come to like. it would be another gnomeragan.

    1. Re:No. not fucking naga please. by discord5 · · Score: 1

      one of the shittiest creatures in-game

      Those are called murlocks, or as I used to call them "annoying fish things that are goddamned everywhere". When TBC came out I resubscribed, and cheered in guildchat that I was finally free of the abominations, only to discover that the third creature I was going to run into was a murlock.

      It wasn't just the look, nor was it their abundant presence in the world, but the annoying sound they made without fail whenever you aggro'd one.

      I'll take naga over murlocks any day.

    2. Re:No. not fucking naga please. by LanMan04 · · Score: 1

      The Naga are a hell of a lot cooler than the stupid "I be jammin, mon" trolls.

      Troll lore is the worst, imho.

      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    3. Re:No. not fucking naga please. by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      I put the murloc aggro sound on my phone and set it to a ringtone. Everyone now commends me for answering so quickly.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  41. Cataclysm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I certainly hope not, as "The Cataclysm" is the name for the war-ending event in Beyond War, a game that has had that fiction posted since 2001. If so, then their PTO filing violates knowing prior use by an MMO publisher and damages will be high regardless failure to perform a correct due diligence search by the PTO. They should stick with Maelstrom if they want to keep the money.

    1. Re:Cataclysm by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      I certainly hope not, as "The Cataclysm" is the name for the war-ending event in Beyond War, a game that has had that fiction posted since 2001. If so, then their PTO filing violates knowing prior use by an MMO publisher and damages will be high regardless failure to perform a correct due diligence search by the PTO. They should stick with Maelstrom if they want to keep the money.

      Here is Sierra's Trademark on Cataclysm:

      Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
      Cancellation Date April 4, 2008

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  42. Re:I hate WoW players. by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

    You're so full of shit. They arent all dragons.

  43. Re: the islands by NoName+Studios · · Score: 1

    The islands you speak of were actually located north west(Game Master Island) of Kalimdor and north east(Developer Islands) of Eastern Kingdoms. The Developer Islands were removed early on from the files and did have some interesting game breaking developer only items. The Game Master Island still exists, but was later functionally split off from the rest of the world. It requires map editing to reach it now. However, it never had any thing of interest. An early design for a guild housing building, a white room with a chair in it under the land mass, and a dock.

    Now, there are some land masses near the Maelstrom that were and still sort of accessible from the Eastern Kingdoms. They are mostly blank land masses though. In the beginning to reach them it require a priest or warlock to fear another player off the boat in Booty Bay. This would cause the player to glitch and move incredibly fast towards the western edge of the continent map. I will attempt to explain the technical aspects of why that worked now. Each continent is contained in its own map file. The boats and zeppelins are contained within their own independent continent map files that are loaded on top of the real continent. Ever notice how a NPC that is chasing you can not path on to a boat or zeppelin? NPCs can not see these boat continent files in front of them. All they understand is that the player they are chasing is there at a certain location, but can not figure out how to path out of the real continent.
    This is where the priest or warlock fearing comes in. When under the effect of fear the PC is temporarily treated as a NPC for the duration of the fear. When the PC gets feared off the boat past its very small continent border, since NPCs can not path from one continent to another, the PC glitches "falling" very fast in one direction.

    There are many technical aspects of WoW that make all of these hacks and glitches possible. Personally examining how parts of WoW work it obviously shows that this was definitely Blizzard's first attempt at a MMORPG. There are some aspects that could have been programmed differently.(To note, many of those have been changed or improved over the past expansions.)

  44. New Races? I'd like that! by Vastad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Goblin City? Hmmm...does this mean the Horde will finally have their comic-relief counterpart to the Gnomes?

    What would the Alliance have as a new race? Pandaren?

    1. Re:New Races? I'd like that! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worgen

    2. Re:New Races? I'd like that! by dontPanik · · Score: 1

      I think it's bullshit that Goblins will be a playable race.

      Even if they were, why would they end up on the Horde side? That would ruin the idea of all the Goblin towns being neutral.

      --
      "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso
    3. Re:New Races? I'd like that! by Vastad · · Score: 1

      You have a point there. I forgot that Blizzard don't follow the usual trope of all greenskins being related and they are more like mad-scientist Phoenicians with dollar signs in their eyes.

      The Naga perhaps?

    4. Re:New Races? I'd like that! by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      What would the Alliance have as a new race? Pandaren?

      No, I don't think we're ever going to see Pandaren as a playable race. China is a major market for Blizzard, and they're not going to release something major that will greatly offend them. Riding into the Pandaren capital city, slaughtering pandas wholesale.. I don't think it would be illegal, but it would spark a lot of outrage in China.

      There was little amusement over there when Blizzard announced Pandaren as a race for The Burning Crusade as an April Fool's Joke.

      I'm think a redesigned Worgen is a possibility, Naga less so (it would break the armor system... they have no legs and feet!). I would love dragonkin, but there's little chance of that either. ;) Maybe something that's completely new, not in the existing lore.

  45. Re:I hate WoW players. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, I used to play WoW until recently, and your hate is missplaced.

    I was able to play WoW, have a job, a wife, friends,a RL and only did quit because we now have a baby and it effectively takes up all my time.

    It's not the game's fault that your friends got so heavily addicted, it's theirs. I used to play no more than 2-3 hours in most days, with days off and maybe a bit more sunday evening. My wife had the right to give me a 10 mins notice and i had to stop playing in that interval, because i considered time spent with her more important than a game (ofc, i would tell her about a raid and we would make our schedule around this, so i was able to confirm or not my attendance to the raid without leaving my guild tankless with a 10 min notice).

    The ideea is that Wow is a fun game, but someone can play it without ruining his/her life. The ones that lose to it would probably lose to another time consuming hobby if there were no MMO's around.

    Oh, and i intend to start playing Wow again when the little guy grows up a bit and i start having some 1-2 hours of free time again.

  46. Re:I hate WoW players. by emanem · · Score: 1

    This makes me sad...
    Personally I think that such argument is for people without willing to fight, to do real things.
    How do you find more entertaining a (virtual) world where all is designed to (easily) have success for everyone?
    It's like success free for all.
    Ask yourself, isn't a bit depressing that every character owns a dragon?
    Isn't a bit depressing that every character has killed the same bosses, fought in the same valley/basin for 10000 times?
    Isn't definitely depressing that everyone is dressed the same, everyone is basically anonymous?

    WoW is good to play with friends just because you can have a chat (on TS/Ventri) while doing stupid things. Without friends to chat with WoW is the worst game ever.
    But maybe wouldn't be better to go and play some real games (football, basketball, ...) at the park with your friends or have a laugh at the pub?

    Good luck with that

    Cheers,

  47. An expansion called Cataclysm? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

    Sierra might be a little upset by that.

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  48. Re:I hate WoW players. by _2Karl · · Score: 1

    However, life is 10000x more boring then WoW could ever be.

    I recently went on holiday to France (Amelie-Les-Bains, in the Pyrenees). While there I climbed a mountain in a thunderstorm. IT was at once the most exhilirating, exciting and terrifying experience. I have played WoW in the past and got bored after a few months. I can assure you, mountains in thunderstorms are far from boring.

    Perhaps you feel life is pointless because you're not actually playing it, just watching the teaser trailers?

  49. Re:I hate WoW players. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The other 10% is in pursuit of some "legacy" that will never matter or even be recorded in history.

    I'm Hitler, you insensitive clod!

  50. More useless content? by kenp2002 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Great more content that 80% of the players will never see. I still have friends that still haven't seen Molten Core, Naxx, or any other raid instance. The irony is when you release an expansion, none of the established players go tot he old content anymore (as a whole) which means new players coming in never see any of the old content because no one runs them anymore. I recently ran a new player through UBRS (Upper Blackrock Spire) and he never knew there were any other instanced dungeons outside of Outlands (He was a new player and started post-burning crusade.)

    When Lich King came out the only Outland instances anyone ran anymore were heroics. New players coming in would never get to actually do those instances because, frankly the established players were at the point that only heroic mode was worth their time.

    As plotted: Take the month to month changes in population (rather then total volume) and compare the data. Every MMO with an expansion gets a 3 month spike in uptake but every time the annual trend goes down every expansion.

    Expansions are great for $$$ but bad for longevity. It becomes a drug addict's exercise in "Chasing the Dragon". Eventually you have to start churning out expansions quicker and quicker to maintain the high but ultimately you lockout new players and hit "the point of no return" on the decline.

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
    1. Re:More useless content? by brkello · · Score: 1

      So what if they don't get to see the old dungeons. The new dungeons are generally better designed and more interesting. If you really want to see the old content, join a guild that occasionally runs that old content.

      Your statement makes no sense. If a game doesn't have longevity, it doesn't make as much money. Yet you try to claim that expansion is good for money, but not for longevity. Expansions breath new life in to a game that has become a grind for a large number of players. The last expansion made just questing on your own really fun. That content is easily accessibly to everyone. So either you don't play or you just lack any deep insight on what is occurring.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    2. Re:More useless content? by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, it's not. Cataclysm will be their new MMO.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    3. Re:More useless content? by kenp2002 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are looking at total volume numbers. You need to look at the month to month and over a year for growth. a 2% growth rate, in general isn't growth. Inflation eats a certain % of new players. Given a 3% rate of inflation you need to clear at least 1.5% subscription growth per year just to cover inflation. So on a chart the first 1.5% is wiped out (inflation adujsted).

      So lets say we have 100,000 subscribers for something in January. The next month we have 101,000 subscribers. That is 1% growth. The chart investors and executives look at shows +1000. They could care less about the total volume on a month-to-month report. Now for Febuary we have a total of 101,500 subscriptions. The chart now shows +500 (50% reductino in new enrollment). The next month we see 102,000. Again +500 (0% change).

      That is the longevity of an MMO. The month to month change. What happened with EQ, Shadowbane, ... , DAOC, Warhammer, and AOC is that the month to month growth eventually tapers and hits 0 (no loss, no gain.) They dump the expansion and temporarily for the first 3 months or so they get +20,000, +15,000, +10,000 but rapidly decline back to 0. Then the problems start. the normal non-expansion month to months start to drop even more rapidly. Instead of +500, +480, +320, and such you get +500, +250, +80, -20, - 60.

      Then you have to dump another expansion and Get +12,000, +8000, +250, -120, and so on.

      The highs get lower and lower and the rate of decline faster and faster. After about the 4th expansion so far based on observation and analysis, you are litterally in the hole at all times save the expansions. There amount of content is too vast for new players to get in and STAY in.

      Eventually the annual report comes out and your only up, say, 4% of the population.

      Operation costs went up 6% and the mandate comes down to cut costs by 3% to bring it back to parity cost wise.

      Devlopers then have to try and augment newer players with an easier experience in an effort to better control retention which alienates long term players more often then not (easy mode) which causes more of the long term month-to-month players to drop (they'll show up at the end of the year.)

      Rentention number are important, just as much as new enrollment but the enrollment numbers tend to be inversly proportional to the volume of content. Too much and you don't get new players to hold on more then 3 months (They get lost in the content.)

      Expansions breath new life in to a game that has become a grind for a large number of EXISTING players.

      So either you don't play or you just lack any deep insight on what is occurring.

      Neither. It's called statistical analysis based on their reported population and account numbers across all servers using regression analysis (specifically we used Autoregressive integrated moving averages [ARIMA]) using expansion release dates, reported populations, sales figures, and information provided in shareholder conference calls as well as quarterly reports as regessors.

      I have no interest in insight or speculation, I'm interested in analysis.

      --
      -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
    4. Re:More useless content? by brkello · · Score: 1

      Interesting, but it strikes me as rubbish. WoW has around 11/12 million subscribers. Yeah, there is inflation which cuts in to profit, but when your profit is so ridiculously high, it doesn't really matter that you are making slightly less each year. This isn't a game that is near the breaking even point. The amount of content not being visited is not even a factor. Most people just skip the dungeons not even away of their existence. How does unused content detract from the player's experience? Those dungeons are't being tweaked or balanced still so they aren't using resources either.

      If your "analysis" is telling you that World of Warcraft is in trouble in the short term, then I question the metrics you are using to analyze it. There is not a single company in the world that wouldn't want to be in Blizzard's position right now. You can talk about trends all you want, but there has never been an MMO as popular as WoW. So you can pretty much take your numbers and throw them out the window. WoW certainly has a few more years of very profitable life in it.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    5. Re:More useless content? by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you're suggesting, exactly. It sounds like you're saying that, eg. Id Software shouldn't release a Quake 5 because there are people who haven't played Quake 1-4?

      With LK Blizzard has decreased the timesinks, grind, and difficulty of dungeons in the game substantially. They've stated publicly that MANY more players are getting to see the full content than ever before. This is in large part due to improving questing, and making dungeons more accessible while including Hard Modes to keep people challenged when they have better gear or more experience.

      It does kind of suck to see content left behind. But if you actually hop in game, you'll notice people in trade chat LFG for all the old instances. People have always been interested in going back to see old content, and the Achievement system and some rare drops (mounts off raid bosses) help give people the feeling of completion that RPGs like this rely on heavily to incentivize people to experience (fun) content.

  51. Re:I hate WoW players. by dontPanik · · Score: 1

    Your post makes me sad.

    You should look on the sunny side of life.
    Maybe get a new hobby? Bike riding? Fishing?

    --
    "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso
  52. OT by dontPanik · · Score: 1

    OT: Climbing mountains while there is a storm is really dangerous.

    Maybe you need to get a thrill out of life, but that's no reason to risk your life.

    --
    "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso
    1. Re:OT by _2Karl · · Score: 1

      The storm didn't start until I was halfway up. My life consists of a great deal of self loathing and I have rarely accomplished anything, so I resolved to make it to the top regardless of risk.

      I stopped short of Yelling "all gods are bastards" when I reached the top, but I did mutter "you can't stop me" under my breath after every thunderclap.

  53. Re:The next World of Warcraftt Expansion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my experience, not only is +1 Real Pussy extremely hard to obtain, it is often not worth the effort.

    Ah, but it's fun to grind, eh?

  54. you heard wrong by darrenkopp · · Score: 1

    i heard it was called modern warfare 2.

  55. Re:I hate WoW players. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not to mention, not all of the bears you kill have hearts.

  56. EQ.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    reminds me of playing Everquest, it was a lot of fun and me and all my buddies with about 12 accounts (2 full groups) would quit between each expansion. By the time they released Planes of Power which had to be the 4th expansion the game was running out of Steam and WoW was beginning to get ready to be released. In essence what killed EQ, which by the way much to my shock still has a population has begun to merge servers. The moral of the story is that EQ began to pump out expansions and people began to tire of it. Then WOW was released. Anyone wanna take bets thats what will end up killing WoW? Someone is gonna come through with a better MMO and that will be the end of WoW.

    Just for a point of reference EQ is releasing another expansion for the original Everquest, which puts them at 15, and they even made Everquest 2 which has more expansions than WOW. Must be following the lessons they learned from the first game.

  57. For loose definitions of "Cataclysm" by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Funny

    > Cataclysm

    As opposed to, oh, I don't know. Some idiots opening a 30-story portal into a demon world where the demons are eternally on the verge of taking the portal and coming through?

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  58. Re:I hate WoW players. by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

    You should look on the sunny side of life.

    Maybe get a new hobby? Bike riding? Fishing?

    How are those anything other then a way to waste time just like WoW is?

  59. Re:I hate WoW players. by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

    This makes me sad...

    Personally I think that such argument is for people without willing to fight, to do real things.

    How do you find more entertaining a (virtual) world where all is designed to (easily) have success for everyone?

    Because WoW is designed to be fun >50% of the time. Whereas, as far as I can tell, real life is only fun ~10% of the time.
    The most fun I ever had was going to school for a summer in Japan. I met new people, learned a new language, explored a new country. But that was only for 3 months. At the time I was 20. So those 3 months was 1.25% of my life at that time. Currently those 3 months are 1.04% of my life thus far and will only decrease.

    As far as I can tell, life is a lot of boring time with momentary burst of enjoyment. Those burst are fleeting and you can never predict when one will happen.

    WoW, on the other hand, may not have as fun of burst moments. However you can somewhat predict when those fun moments will come (raid times) and the time between those moments may be dull you can at least find some way to occupy your mind (like grinding dailies, helping random nubs). In real life you have to stare at the wall of your work box waiting for the clock to hit quitting time just to wake up and do it again for the next 4 days. When you finally get to the weekend your realize that you only have 2 days to get everything done that you could not do during the week.

    When I was working I found it hard to focus on one task during the weekend because I had thought of like 4 or 5 other things I wanted to do during the week but was unable to due to time constraints or unable to think after a day of work.

    WoW is good to play with friends just because you can have a chat (on TS/Ventri) while doing stupid things. Without friends to chat with WoW is the worst game ever.

    But maybe wouldn't be better to go and play some real games (football, basketball, ...) at the park with your friends or have a laugh at the pub?

    I, however, was not gifted with great social skills. Therefore I have no "RL" friends and find them almost impossible to make. The only friends I have are the people I have met in Final Fantasy 11 or WoW.

  60. Re:I hate WoW players. by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

    Perhaps you feel life is pointless because you're not actually playing it, just watching the teaser trailers?

    Or, because like teaser trailers, life is only really exciting for a few moments after months and months of nothingness.

    How long did it take you to save up for and plan that trip to France?

  61. Re:I hate WoW players. by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

    Thank you for the Godwin. I dont think that has ever happened to one of my post before.

    This also points out some irony. People preach about trying to be good and helping people, however it is the truly Evil people who's names will be remembered long after the good people's names have faded.

  62. Where's the who gives a flying f*** thread? by GuyverDH · · Score: 1

    Blizzard could turn off every WoW server that they own, and I wouldn't be bothered one iota.

    --
    Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
  63. Re:I hate WoW players. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

    Playing life is just as pointless as playing WoW. They are both treadmills and neither mater when all is said and done. However, life is 10000x more boring then WoW could ever be.

    What an apathetic observation. If that's your conclusion, then you're doing it wrong.

    There's a constant refrain among MMORPGers (of which I've been counted as one for nearly 10 years) of "we're having fun, just leave us alone." The thing is, you'll find lots of people who have left MMORPGs and literally gotten a life, who will never look back, but you'll never find anyone who's given up their life to play MMORPGs and said "Holy shit, I've really been missing out. Hey everyone, check out these murlocs, they make a funny sound when they agro!"

    Don't get me wrong, games have their place, but that place should be as a part of life, not a substitute for it. Even Stephen Hawking gets out, and he's a 67-year old quadriplegic who can't speak.

    If you're bored, then you're boring. Create your own challenges and stop expecting the world to dance for your sole entertainment. Stop making excuses and start making up for lost time.

  64. Re:I hate WoW players. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a feeling the reason they ignore you isn't because of WoW.

    It sounds like you're one of those insecure, controlling, judgemental pricks who thinks anyone who doesn't do what you say or fall somewhere within your narrow notion of as being "normal" can be defined.

    If I were your "friend", then I too would rather share my time with 24 other less obnoxious "virtual" people, than one "real" you.

  65. what a joke by xmvince · · Score: 1

    people still play this miserable life sucking game? "Playing life is just as pointless as playing WoW. They are both treadmills and neither mater when all is said and done. However, life is 10000x more boring then WoW could ever be." Very very sad thing to say. You are wrong my friend, life is great as long as you have friends. Hell, you don't even need pussy if you don't want it or can't get it - maryjane is the most loyal girl you'll ever come across. Smoke that shit every day with my friends while I maintain this decent IT job and my life is quite enjoyable. I do play games and such with my i7 920 + radeon 4870X2 but I specifically stay away from those MMORPG's as they are wayyy toooo addicting!!

  66. Goblins the next playable race by scottnix · · Score: 1

    Re: TFA. I believe that he's right about Goblins being the next playable race. Reason: Goblins are in the same 'folder' in the WoW data files as the other playable races. With WoW model viewer, you can put armor on them, weapons, and even have them ride mounts. They even have their own dance.

  67. dragonlance by artificialj · · Score: 1

    Not trying to be a troll, as I really know almost nothing about the Warcraft franchise or lore, but it seems as if these ideas, that is, the pairing of Cataclysm and Maelstrom, are directly from the Dragonlance AD&D books (Weiss, Hickman, etc.). Is this bit of lore just a blatant ripoff?

  68. Re:I hate WoW players. by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

    If you're bored, then you're boring.

    And people don't like to be around boring people. Now you can see my proublem.

  69. Re:I hate WoW players. by _2Karl · · Score: 1

    Planning, what's that?

    Besides, you're missing my point. I didn't specifically go to France to climb a mountain in a thunderstorm. It's just one of the many wonderful experiences I had there. And I've had exhilirating experiences in my home town too.

    "Months and months of nothingness" I find tend to spring up when you do nothing but sit behind a computer expecting something to happen. Get outside, go walking at night with no lantern, lie out back and watch the stars - there's a wealth of possibilities, but always remember you get out what you put in.

    Life serves the risk-taker

  70. Cataclysm = Battle.net 2.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't believe no one has speculated that Cataclysm may be the new name for battle.net 2.0.