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Most Expensive JavaScript Ever?
ekran writes "A while ago Opera Software needed more servers. Not just a few servers either — they were planning Opera Mini's growth, implementing Opera Link, and My Opera was also growing quickly.
Most of the major hardware vendors grabbed their specs and came back with offers and sample servers shipped all the way to Oslo for testing. One of the biggest vendors, however, did not do their homework. They shipped the server, but when the Opera sysadmins started up the web-admin interface, they were met with a JavaScript statement that managed to piss off the whole company including the CTO. The script, apparently, locked out the Opera web-browser."
I browsed the comments on the Opera blog and I could not find any definitive answer although HP and Dell are mentioned as possible culprits.
So who was the culprit company ??
Now that it is on /., I am sure that a member of the Slashdot intelligence community could come up with the answer. I offer a reward that will be paid in SMP currency, not in NOK. Sorry about that but I do not have any NOK at my disposal.
currencies:
NOK = Norwegian krone
SMP = Slashdot Mod Points
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
A while ago Opera Software needed more servers
I think they still do.
But since they are insignificant in the browser market I'd probably do the same thing. This is a lame piece of news, companies blow larger deals on much sillier situations than this. It's just Opera trying to drum up some users.
Had the same thing on the webadmin interface for one of their ILO's. Or more precise, it wouldn't work on anything but IE. Hadn't seen that for quite a while.
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
I'm quite sure microsoft did it to make them switch to IE...
And if it was outsourced.
it's not HP as the link to what they actually buy shows they bought HP blades (http://www.digi.no/504306/her-kjores-egentlig-opera-mini&bid=6)
my money is going on Dell.
Having tested web based software for IBM before, I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess it was IBM. Anyone here ever use SCM (Storage Configuration Manager)? It's utter shite; slow, buggy, and unsupported on anything other than firefox and IE.
Remember kids, IBM Hardware = Good. IBM Software = Kill it with fire.
Skiffy is Spiffy, but Ort is tort.
if (is.opera)
{
window.location.href="config/error.htm";
}
Conspiracy theorists unite!
Free Martian Whores!
spoof the agent, just like everyone else who uses Opera
if (is.opera) { window.location.href="config/error.htm"; }
And someone sent this on a server for Opera? I marvel at the stupidity of the developer for that niceness, as well as the hardware vendor for not testing their software before shipping.
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
Heh
Not that Opera doesn't have serious funding... but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this javascript would be more expensive, most of the time
.
.
if (is.explorer)
{
window.location.href="config/error.htm";
}
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
The British cartoonist Giles is said to have made himself practically sacking proof by one of his cartoons. The Duke of Edinburgh remarked that "The [Daily, owned by Beaverbrook] Express is a bloody awful newspaper."
Giles promptly did a cartoon of his employer being led off in chains by Yeoman Warders, watched by the Duke, with the caption
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
This nonsense would never happen.
I started as a web developer in the mid-90s. I know how hard it is to develop for multiple browsers and versions. When Netscape and Internet Explorer 4.0 came out, they quickly gained the majority of market share. Many colleagues did not want to keep their sites compatible with 3.x browsers because they felt it was a pain. I would always hear the sentence, "They only have a 5% market share."
To me this was and still is a ridiculous attitude. You're OK randomly raising your middle finger to 1 in 20 potential customers visiting your site? What if that 1 in 20 is the wrong person? Obviously, in this case, they definitely raised their middle finger to the wrong people.
But this gets even worse, because Opera is not obsolete and is fairly standards-compliant. To top it off, the vendor specifically broke the web site for the browser they were too lazy to design for, rather than doing something that makes sense -- like investing time and money to reach a small but tech-savvy segment of the population.
All told -- shamefully -- it makes me feel a little Schadenfreude that it bit them in the rear.
The Institute of Incomplete Research has determined that 9 of out 10
"since they are insignificant in the browser market I'd probably do the same thing. This is a lame piece of news, companies blow larger deals on much sillier situations than this. It's just Opera trying to drum up some users." - by sulfide (1382739) on Tuesday July 21, @08:53AM (#28768555)
Not knocking FireFox/Mozilla really, they do a nice product & I've worked with their teams fixing bugs on various sites etc. et al, but... they're NO OPERA, in terms of performance, memory footprint, speed overall consistently, & security vulnerabilities patching (as well as meeting standards, but, here? FF seems to do more pages 'correctly', but, that's a matter of useragent string as a fix usually (report as IE, hassles go away many times), + webpage devs building MOSTLY around IE &/or FireFox instead)...
Considering Opera's OVERALL faster (when all factors are tested, Opera USUALLY comes out "on top" of the competition, for more speed & efficiency in various tests of browser speed (such as this one -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html + others such as -> http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/ & more (available upon request, just ask, I will put them out))?
It keeps Opera's competition on their toes, so-to-speak - they "steal" ideas from Opera, rampantly, & yes FireFox has surpassed Opera in javascript parsing + processing speeds lately, but, that same "gain" turned up a loss in the next url below (1st one):
AND, that Opera is overall the most secure (i.e.-> consistently bearing less known & unpatched security vulnerabilities, for YEARS now no less, this HAS been the case) than BOTH of its main competitors in FireFox (yes, even v.3.51 lately, has "holes again", per this url from here @ /. no less) -> New Firefox Vulnerability Revealed http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/19/169206/New-Firefox-Vulnerability-Revealed & Microsoft Internet Explorer -> http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/ vs. Opera -> http://secunia.com/advisories/product/10615/
That anyone, with ANY SENSE, that is, knows which webbrowser not only performs the best, pound for pound, but also which one keeps you safest online (& has features natively "built-in" that other webbrowsers have to use addons for, or imitate, to achieve the same levels of excellence in 1 package)...
APK
P.S.=> Lastly, considering Opera generally makes passing the "ACID tests" (for browser std.s compliance) a snap usually, & they are usually the first OR amongst the first that pass it? Well... to quote Microsoft? "Where do YOU want to go, today?"... Opera! apk
I've been a Dell user for a long time but I have never used one that shipped with a web interface. But the specs probably called for some pretty special stuff and it may not have been loaded with Windows at all. So I just have to know. Who was it? Was it my Dell? I could sort of believe it if it was Dell... sometimes the people there leave me scratching my head wondering what they were thinking and if they listened to me at all. But my preference for Dell is due in large part to my experience with HP whose support and sales are very unmoving and inflexible. (I am sure others have had different experiences and that's fine, and I believe you too... it's just not my experience. No need to discuss.)
Of the big two, HP and Dell, which one of them is "more beholden" to Microsoft? It's hard for me to tell since I have Dell leanings and haven't dealt with HP for a few years. Both offer Linux on servers. Both offer Linux on desktops and laptops. Both are pretty beholden to Microsoft and have to walk lightly when it comes to offending them. I really haven't a clue who it could be...
The headline is misinformative. Based upon the headline I would have expected to read about a company hiring a bunch of developers for a lot of money to code something cool in javascript. Perhaps a more appropriate headline is "Javascript locked out Opera, Opera locked out the company."
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.d672f9d7f0f64fefdf0b21e696b41e21.7a1&show_article=1
Funny, the "study" claims that commercial fishing isn't a significant factor in the shrinking of the average fish size, yet it was just last night that I was watching an Animal Planet show that claimed the opposite! I am tired of these contrived "studies" with predetermined outcomes. No, you may NOT use Church of Gaia dogma to revoke my God-given rights as defined by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Neither the federal government nor some international shadow government like the UN has any business trampling on states' rights.
Classic case of a company not knowing what their product is used for.
Opera != Work Browser.
Opera == Bestest P0rn Browser ! Swift image resizing, superior mouse gestures, and remaining responsive even after a gazillion tabs are opened.
It's like turning up with your purpose-built race car at the city center, and whining about speed humps.
currencies:
NOK = Norwegian krone
SMP = Slashdot Mod Points
The uncyclopedia will explain:
Free Martian Whores!
http://www.digi.no/504306/her-kjores-egentlig-opera-mini&bid=5
Notice anything odd about the large 48v DC power cables? Like the '+' and '-'... on the wrong lines...
Forget a javascript issue, that there is a pretty huge installation issue.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I've already found a defect in the revised sniffer. The variable names "fire" and "moz" appear to indicate that the code above this line would fail on Iceweasel, IceCat, SeaMonkey post-renaming, Fennec, K-Meleon, Epiphany, and other browsers using the same HTML/CSS/JavaScript engine as Firefox. Why is it testing for "fire" and "moz", not "gecko"? Having an alert() pop-up on (I'm guessing) every page is an improvement against immediate redirection to an error page, but it's still an annoyance.
I'm not sure who to feel Schadenfreude towards. The company that sold a server with pre-installed web-admin software that locked out the company's own browser, or the Web browser company that needs their servers to be pre-installed with web-admin software...
Remember kids, IBM Hardware = Good.
Is Lenovo hardware good too? Do you think IBM choose a good buyer for its PC division?
IBM Software = Kill it with fire.
Would this include IBM BIOS, IBM BASIC, and IBM OS/2?
It's kinda funny, but it also shows the ignorance of some people who used to (and maybe still do) think there is only one web browser out there and it's IE. Good thing times are changing!
See subject-line above, & realize this: NO MATTER WHAT YOU MOD my topic as? The facts in my last post just do not "go away", because they're fact... & "the truth shall set you free", especially from "fanboy fanatic down-modders", who don't realize 1 thing:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "BAD PRESS"...
Mod it down, others get attracted to it, to see WHY it was modded so... & once they see what's inside of my post?
Well... you know!
APK
P.S.=> LOL, amazing... apk
Well, at least the installer was consistent. But yeah, ouch!
This guy's the limit!
can only guess on wheter the colors or the labeling is wrong
Many years ago, we were bidding on a US Postal Service contract to supply computer equipment to all of their offices. We had several pallets of bid material on the loading dock, ready to go. Fortunately, one of the program managers made a last minute check and discovered (in time!) that nobody had bothered to tell the shipping department to ignore the standard, "Ship all contract proposals FedEx, overnight", procedure in this case.....
Maybe that's why the page is in this weird language...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
48V DC is an odd beast, with odd standards going back to the early days of the Bell System.
In a 48V DC system, the positive side is grounded. This is to prevent corrosion on phone lines in the ground that happens more readily if the system is negative ground.
Since positive is ground, the "live" wire is negative, or -48VDC. Since this is the wire you don't want to lick, or allow to touch the chassis when powered, it is colored red in many deployments. The black wire is ground, you can lick* it all you want.
* -48V DC won't really sting you much if you just touch it unless your hands are wet or you touch it with a wet part of you like your tongue.
HP's not much better though:
// supported browser; do nothing
var detect = navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();
var ie = detect.match(/msie ([\d\.]+)/);
var moz = detect.match(/rv:([\d\.]+)/);
var fire = detect.match(/firefox\/([\d\.]+)/);
if(
( ie!=null && ie[1] >= "6.0" ) ||
( fire!=null && fire[1] >= "1.0.2" ) ||
( moz!=null && moz[1] >= "1.6" )
) {
} else {
alert( "Integrated Lights-Out 2 supports Microsoft Internet Explorer version 6.0 or greater, Firefox version 1.0.2 or greater, and Mozilla version 1.6 or greater. Some functionality may not work and pages may not format correctly on other browser platforms. This browser platform reports it is \""+navigator.userAgent+"\""); }
Of course that's just a warning, not just dumping them to the error page. It IS annoying that we do such stupid browser detection tricks instead of coding to standards. In an ideal world that statement would be something like:
If browser.supports(HTML4) do {} else alert ( "upgrade to a modern browser" );
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Let's see: So far, my post went from +2 INFORMATIVE, to +1 INFORMATIVE, down to 0 TROLL status?
LMAO: Guys, please - Give us a break...
(AND, keep blowing your mod points, because once somebody sees the inside of my post & the facts it extolls via valid backing postings from reputable sources?? Well, again: YOU KNOW - See my P.S. below, & whoever's "modding me down", all I can recommend is a really GOOD tune called "Policy of Truth" by Depeche Mode - listen to it, "drink it in, & digest it"...!)
APK
P.S.=> "And, the truth shall set you free..." FREE - of 'fanboy down modders' & FREE - of the trolls that like to do this to me, regularly lately here!
LMAO: Hey, personally? Well, I think they're HILARIOUS actually, because they can do so, namelessly, but when it comes down to facing my points directly, mano-a-mano?? They simply prove themselves to be what they are "The 'NOT MEN' Online" is all... TOO easy! apk
[Old versions of popular browsers] "only have a 5% market share."
To me this was and still is a ridiculous attitude. You're OK randomly raising your middle finger to 1 in 20 potential customers visiting your site?
They probably did a business decision that people in the last 5 percent to upgrade their web browsers buy less. You see, older browser versions tend to run better on obsolete PCs, and people who don't replace an obsolete PC are probably misers: people who stretch their dollar so far that they are less likely to demand your luxury product. Case in point: PCs running IE 6 or Firefox 2 are likely to be at least eight years old.
... who was expecting this to involve the new recovery.gov?
Thanks for that, now I feel kinda like an idiot. At least I am now a smarter idiot than I was half an hour ago.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Actually, those pictures are old. That they had HPs before making the purchase doesn't mean that they chose them again.
Wow, so this proves someone actually does use Opera!
Ah yes, Dell Remote Access Controllers have a shitty as hell web interface that only seems to work in IE. I think it's supposed to work in firefox but it never has for me.
Photos.
Amazing... see my subject-line, & the moderation scores on my initial posting bouncing like a rubber ball... lol!
From +2 INFORMATIVE
To +1 INFORMATIVE
To 0 TROLL
To +1 INFORMATIVE
To 0 INFORMATIVE...
LMAO! Amazing...
APK
P.S.=> Keep it up, blow those mod points downmodders, because sooner or later? YOU RUN OUT OF THEM, & that's when the REAL FUN begins + where I will just use facts (above & beyond what's in my initial post) to utterly destroy & discredit the "down modder", big-time (of course, that assuming the worms will come out of hiding, & they usually don't but... when they do? LMAO... well, you know (truth sets you free))... apk
Weird language, that would explain a lot of /.
In general, not supporting a 5% market segment because it would cost too much development effort may be a reasonable decision.
In this case, the real WTF was submitting the product in a bid for the vendor of said 5% market segment. And simply throwing an error if Opera is detected. That's like opening a business in a black neighborhood and putting up a sign that says "Niggers not allowed" ;-)
C - the footgun of programming languages
It was Dell.
Dumbest reason ever? I agree. However, on the flip side...
How often do some FOSS advocates set out to prove that they have marketing savvy by pointing to the dumb, weird names of FOSS apps as a barrier to adoption by "normal" organizations?
We can't have it both ways. The name of a piece of software either does or does not influence people. I think it's clear that it does and if some office, somewhere made Opera the standard for that reason, then such an outcome should not be unexpected. Rare, perhaps, but not unexpected.
Please... there's nothing wrong with NOT investing time / money which you will never see back. Sending a server like that directly to Opera when trying to win a bid is stupid... but for the most part that 1 in 20 is inconsequential.
I never understood the reasoning behind not just warning the user once and continuing.
I once played a game that had a check for processor speed using GHz and flat out refused to play on a fast processor running at a lower GHz.
I've also had software that was written for Windows 2000 and requires SP4. I expect it will start working properly in XP once XP SP4 is released because they were too stupid to check the OS version properly.
donkey cock!
What a "wild ride"... lmao! My post went from these ratings of my initial post here:
+2 INFORMATIVE
+1 INFORMATIVE
0 TROLL
+0 INFORMATIVE
+1 INFORMATIVE
"AMAZING"... lol, not!
To whom it may concern: To whoever's wasting their "mod points", modding me down? Keep it up, it only attracts others to my posting, & they mostly have been "modding it back up" again is all! Keep wasting your mod points...
(AND, when you finally face the points I put up in my init. reply, & the ones I have ready for you ontop of those? Well - once you DO show your face here (probably via a registered user 'sock puppet' account, one of your many ones you use no doubt, in order to facilitate this type of madness N lunacy on others' posts)? Well - we'll see then (provided you DO have the "balls" to face me, directly, that is (which clearly, you do not)).
APK
P.S.=> Gotta love it when you have a pack of trolls that chase you all over a site, lol... almost like having a "fan club"! Too, TOO easy... but, all the downmods in the world aren't standing up too well, vs. the facts, now are they...? Nope - nuff said! apk
Back in the 90s I was a field engineer for a three letter storage array manufacturer based in Hopkinton, MA. One of our sales guys had verbal agreement from UPS to purchase quite a few of our disk arrays instead of our competition, HDS. If I recall correctly, the deal was about $2million. Anyhow, all that needed to be done was to have the paperwork/contracts signed. So the salesguy told his administrative assistant to overnight the contracts to the customer for signing.
We lost the contract because the assistant FedEx'd them to UPS.
One 48VDC install I saw used blue for the ungrounded 'live' wire, seemed like a good idea since it forced an inexperienced tech to measure
yes! _____ http://forum.arthacking.net/ http://arthacking.net/
(b)If deploying a system like this, IEC says the positive wire should be BLUE and the negative should be GREY. If the wires are completely isolated (i.e. neither is grounded or connected to PE) the positive wire should be BROWN. In the US (Opera isn't in the US) the wiring convention is WHITE for the return and BLACK for the negative wire. Just DON'T ever use red and black and reverse their normal functions. 48V can make very impressive arcs.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Someone sent them shitty US cables, since they're european they figured black is really just dark grey so lets use the black cables as grey. That leaves the red cables to use as brown.
And hope that is an IEC guy ever sees it he is colour blind.
anyone that is using Opera can just switch over to another browser to perform the task at hand*.
Except Opera has a significant exclusive presence on appliances. For instance, I don't know of any other web browser that can be installed on a Wii or Nintendo DS system without a jailbreak, and there are plenty of phones for which Opera Mini or Opera Mobile is the best web browser. Or was this your * ?
I'd mod you "-1, Annoying as hell typing syntax".
hmmm they have a firefox plugin which works fine with 32 bit ubuntu..... I think you might need the java5 plugin as well. I do use my Ubuntu laptop to connect to our DRACs.
... dominate the web development arena, anyway. BHC computers (big hardware company), like so many others of their size, try to maximize profit by doing things such as hiring the cheapest people. So they get HTML, CSS, and even Javascript, that is not standards compliant and bases its functionality on the specific behavior of specific browsers. Developers that are in the browser specific mode are then further restricted to at most one or two browsers to "support".
I've seen well done web pages, even ones that don't waste space by fixing the size to a subset of the screen, done in ways that look great and consistent across Explorer, Firefox, Konqueror, Opera, and Safari. So it can be done right. The question is whether there is the management willpower to achieve it.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Anything else is just beyond their ken. Rendering engine? Gecko? KHTML? What the hell are those?
KHTML? When work bought you an iPhone, that's where the WebKit in the iPhone originally came from.
They were demo servers for trying out. Of course they should come with everything ready to go.
... and it worked. It displays just fine. Are they trying to make their competitors look good or something?
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Some of their ethernet switches block non-IE browsers as well. I forget which is which, but I think the PowerConnect 6000s warn about the browser but let you through, and the 5000s just refuse to let you in when running firefox on linux.
My experience is from a few years ago and perhaps they have fixed their firmware since then, I know I filed a complaint.
"I'd mod you "-1, Annoying as hell typing syntax"." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Tuesday July 21, @10:21AM (#28769543) Homepage
That's SIMPLY a "matter of opinion" on YOUR part, @ best/most, because first of all?
This is just a forums... not any legal correspondence, nor "my last will & testament", nor is it even a GRADE for an academic paper even... so, so much for YOUR opinion!
IF you have a brain deficiency such as ADD/ADHD or DYSLEXIA? Then you are excused, & my comment above need not apply to the likes of you, because you cannot help it (that is NOT your fault, though, not staying w/ whatever 'treatments' are administered for that? That'd be YOUR FAULT though...)
Funniest part is this: IF you're hoping the "10 posts per 24 hour limit on AC's" takes hold of me? Don't hold your breath - I can beat it, with ease mind you, & be RIGHT BACK IN HERE, to kick you around the block a little more, lol...
(TOO easy... but, then again, I suppose it's just as easy for the trolls to maintain sock puppet accounts to mod me down with, & then use their OTHER 'sock puppet accounts' thru an anonymous proxy or Onion Routers (TOR), etc. et al, to remain undetected as well - & then, for them to come in here, FINALLY, under some other alternate login account here, as you have, with your "typical trollish 'no PHD in English' yet troll sees fit to critique others' writing style' b.s.)
In fact? Well, geee - Just as YOU have now... lmao, predictable:
(BUT, no matter WHAT you do? It doesn't matter - you HAVE to stay "off-topic", in order to attempt to attack me, but to no avail... as you can see? My post has gone back UP to +1 INFORMATIVE, yet again (the truth DOES set you free))
APK
P.S.=> Also, since you "see fit" to critique my writing style on forums? Well - care to produce proof of your PHD in English for us?? OH, that's right - you don't HAVE one to your name... oh well!
(TROLLS - they're ALL the same, & "TOO EASY" to put in their place, everytime, with the same 'disposal methods', like usual)... apk
I've run it on windows in FF and had issues as well, even with Java installed. Of course some of my DRACs are fairly old, but even the DRAC5s have been problematic for me. Maybe I need to update the firmware, an operation which, surprise, doesn't work right on ubuntu (Dell really only supports RHEL and their firmware upgrades sometimes refuse to work on ubuntu).
Photos.
Common sense is something individual human beings have (at least potentially). Large corporations are lumbering beasts that aren't governed by such rules.
Dell DRAC 4 and up controllers work fine with firefox provided you set the console to use Java in the Remote Console -> Configuration screen. Most of the DRAC firmwares dont have a native console plugin that works with firefox though I have found a few variations that do. Your best bet is just to use the .jnlp version with Java Webstart.
--X
Honesty may be the best policy, but apparently by elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.
Well, as you can see, my "trolling fanclub"?
My posts' back UP to "+2 INFORMATIVE" - &, thus, the 'truth DOES set you free'...
Along with others modding me back up, that is (thanks to those that did so).
(Argue with the numbers trolls - & keep blowing those mod points to mod it down, because as you can easily see? Others ARE "modding up" my initial post once again, offsetting your b.s. mod downs)
Funny also, how I never see any REAL FACTS put against that which I often post here, only "not men online" trollish mod downs (men like that? They're the problem with the world today - it's no longer a world of great men, only 'committees' (of trolls, lol))
Nice part is, I archived the post in ALL of its moderations as both screenshots & .mht single file webfile archives... just for my OWN records & proof thereof, of this kind of lunacy going on here!
(Now, of course? I also, could "adopt" their tactics, using sock puppet registered accounts, but... that'd "drag me down to my naysayers' level", & idiots drag you down to THEIR level, & beat you with experience... no, no senor: That's NOT going to happen here!)
AND, registered accounts? Love to have one, but, as one can see - they make the registered user FAR too easily tracked, for trolling... that's not going to be something I will give my 'trolling fanclub', no way (want to find my posts? You WORK for it, lol, because I use AC it's MUCH harder for them to do, & I LOVE IT!)
And, as YARNEK put it (as far as the concepts of "good vs. evil") in Star Trek the original series?
"Your GOOD and your EVIL use the same methods, achieve the same ends... can you explain?"
I could do the same & use 'sock puppet' alternate logon registered user accounts to dispense points... even to MYSELF, but I won't & don't... & I certainly do NOT dispense them period, posting as AC as I am wont to do!
(Because were I do use the same means my detractors down? Hey, again - That'd be 'staining myself', & becoming like the 'not men' online, & their unjustified mod downs that have no facts behind them... &, I won't allow that, so you won't see me "stoop to their level", wherever THAT is, somewhere down SO FAR below? I can't even SEE them... lmao!
APK
P.S.=> Now, this one? Heh - it ought to be good to "get another rise" outta the down modding trolls, eh? Keep blowing your mod points boys, because like I said before?? You'll run out of them, sooner or later, & others mod my posts RIGHT BACK UP (lol, probably to a TRUE +5 by now in fact, considering it's been modded up +2 once, & +2 again, & + 1 after that too)... ah, as usual? "TOO easy"... apk
If you won't name names its not news.
See my other post on this thread.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
What's the current SMP/NOK exchange rate?
The same as the current SMP/ATD (Alterian Dollar) exchange rate. The problem here is the Vogons mod everything down except their own poetry.
Reply to That ||
If you have to point & click to administer your network / device / whatever, you have no place as an administrator. CLI rocks. ;)
See above, & I got the screenshot in .jpg format, & also a single webfile .mht archive to supplement it.
(This is in case my "flock of trolls" decides to try to "collect up all my 'modded down posts'" to use them against myself, which is I am pretty much sure, their "end game"/ultimate goal, & simply because I have around, oh, 120 or so put together here that go from +1 (hard on us AC's since we start @ ZERO) thru +5 on a range of mod ups from Informative, to Insightful, etc. et al, & they're rampantly trying to discredit me).
Sounds nuts, I know... but, proof is below as to my conclusions, & I can produce FAR more than the quote below to supplement this conclusion of mine as well, if need be.
Good luck on that too, in collecting up down mods of mine, because I have guys following me here (aren't I priveleged) such as this one who ADMITS he does this to me:
----
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1300193&cid=28765737
"I stick around "trolling you" because I've seen how you troll others. I've seen your tactics." - by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19, @04:16PM (#28749759)
----
From here this week (this has been going on with this particular AC psycho here, for around 2-3 weeks now (& he goes by "AMERICANO" usually)) - again, aren't I just the "special/priveleged one", complete with my own troll fanclub? LMAO...
APK
P.S.=> Nuff said, on ALL accounts noted... I am 10 steps ahead of you boys, period, everytime... it's hilarious! Get your IQ's up past "10 below plantlife", because the down modders are clearly "hovering around that Intelligence Quotient"... you'd be lousy chess players, or field generals, in my estimation @ least! apk
I work for HP. The iLO team wants web pages that work right, look good, and load quickly for the majority of their customers. They're not interested in standards compliance as an end onto itself, or in crusades to get people to "upgrade to a modern browser". As long as IE 6 is widely used in corporate environments, iLO must continue to target it.
Sounds like something Dell would do. Like the time they sent a Cadillac limo to pick up the Ford CTO or the time they use Airbourne to deliver the contract to UPS.
True story:
When I was in college, I was hooking up my modem in the dorm so we could play Warcraft against each other.
I had both hands full, so I stuck the end of the phone line in my mouth for a second. Someone called me, and I learned why you don't have to plug a phone in for it to ring when someone calls...
Stupid practice.
The reason for standards isn't to keep companies like Microsoft in check, though it has that result, and that is good for the marketplace. Standards are supposed to reduce costs. In this particular example, the way your iLO team *should* do the job is to first check for html compliance, then check for IE6 - as the largest-share noncompliant browser, then check for any other non-compliant browsers you can't afford to ignore. At that point, you have 3 ways to branch in your code - compliant, IE6, and unsupported.
The software industry is pretty nearly hopelessly fouled up, because of the lack of clear and properly used standards. A large part of this is Microsoft's fault, though not all, by any means. Unfortunately, rather than software getting better, other industries are getting worse. Customer lock-in is an addictive drug, and in the long term is probably as wise, even from a business sense.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Browsers for mobile devices are the fastest growing segment of that "market" and Opera is doing quite well there. And a lot of people jump through hoops to replace whatever crappy browser came with their mobile device with opera mini now, just because it works. And that is one of the main points of the article as well about why they needed more servers..
I've seen Opera do some funny things with some RIA's I've written, the same code works on webkit, trident, and gecko with no problems, but Opera does some funny things. My code is probably wrong(it's a hack job on some badly designed pre-existing code, not a clean rewrite), but nevertheless it works fine on everything else.
Seeing that I basically have 3 options.
Any of these three options can be correct, depending on the needs of the business and the severity of the problem. In all reality, no matter how big this guy thinks there server order was, it was probably only a drop in the bucket overall, and in all reality no one was fired and nothing really happened, they lost a sale. They lost it on something stupid, but it's only one sale no matter how big it is(and it likely wasn't really all that big).
Opera is not infallible, they've come up with a few fairly innovative design ideas, but they've always been crippled to a certain extent by ideology. Part of why Opera was and is so fast, and so light is that it is basically incredibly anal about exactly correct HTML syntax. In theory this is a good idea, but in practice it means that Opera has been plagued by pages which don't render correctly for it's entire lifespan. A lot of the web is sort of kludged together because the standards defining how to do things properly are always 2-3 years behind what people are actually doing, a lot of WYSIWYG editors spit out bad code, hand coders make mistakes. All these things happen, and Opera has never been even the remotest bit forgiving(oddly enough firefox is by far the most forgiving, substantially more so than IE) of any of it, which is one of the prime reasons IMO why it never really gets much market penetration despite generally speaking having most of the innovative web ideas before the competition. The fact that until fairly recently it was ad driven or cost money, isn't open source, and doesn't come installed on anyone's PC are of course others. There's really no need to switch to another browser which results in more broken pages, isn't free as in speech, and until very recently wasn't even free as in beer, no mater how innovative it is.
That doesn't surprise me. It seems like everything HP makes is defective.
Browser detection is almost always the wrong way to do things anyway. Test for existence of specific JavaScript properties/methods on objects to find out if they exist. You can generally check for IE-specific behavior just by testing for the presence or absence of JavaScript properties/methods.
if (document.getElementsByClassName) {
/* IE and old browser version */
elts = document.getElementsByClassName("resulttablerow");
} else {
}
By doing this, you won't have to do a browser check at all and your page will "just work" for any browser that implements either the standards-compliant behavior, the IE behavior, or both. You can do the same thing for CSS properties by trying to add the property, then going and trying to read it back for verification. If it isn't there when you go back and check for it, the browser doesn't support the CSS property.
I'm not familiar with Opera's behavior, but in my experience, roughly 99.5% of CSS and JavaScript that works with FireFox also works with Safari and vice versa (as long as you don't try to use bleeding edge HTML5 or CSS3 features). Any browser check that only tests for FireFox is almost always just guaranteed to make a bunch of users mad for no reason.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Early cars and farm machinery used to do that for the same reasons too- to control corrosion especially in salt water environments. Of course they were primarily 6 and 12 volt system with a few occasional 24 and 48 volt implementations. But the principles were primarily the same.
This is exactly why I've shied away from doing any extensive JavaScript programming. Indeed, anytime I have to create websites, the most annoying thing is to get it to look good in all the major browsers, with IE being the greatest pain in the ass.
Ruby Neural Evolution of Augmenting Topologies
Does this really work? For the given example, does "if (document.gelElementsByClassName)" really mean that it will work the way you expect, for any and every implementation? That's the other part of standards - there's following the standard, and then there's "following the standard", which aren't necessarily interoperable... like Kerberos and a certain unnamed implementation.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
This has nothing to do with web standards. The alert message says it's not _supported_ on other browsers. Here "supported" means "someone has actually tested it on every supported version, if it something doesn't work, call us". If anything breaks and you call support, they can't say "that's a bug in your browser". If it is a browser bug they have to work around it.
fortune favors the lucky
Except the Cadillac doesn't specifically forbid Ford executives from riding in it, nor does Airborne refuse to deliver to UPS clients.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
You asked for it, ladeees and gentlemen! It may not be that grand masterpiece, Ode to a Small Lump of Green Putty I Found in my Armpit One Midsummer Morning, but I think this little joy from Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz should be enough to warm your hearts:
Oh freddled gruntbuggly, ...[drowned out by moaning and screaming]
Thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits
On a lurgid bee
That mordiously hath bitled out
Its earted jurtles
Into a rancid festering
Now the jurpling slayjid agrocrustles
Are slurping hagrilly up the axlegrurts
And living glupules frart and slipulate
Like jowling meated liverslime
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes
And hooptiously drangle me
With crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or else I shall rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon
See if I don't.
Cheers!
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
So you taste test a live wire?
Glad to know I am not alone.
So you taste test a live wire?
Glad to know I am not alone.
So you taste test a live wire?
Glad to know I am not alone.
So you taste test a live wire?
Glad to know I am not alone.
So you taste test a live wire?
Glad to know I am not alone.
So you taste test a live wire?
Glad to know I am not alone.
Ooh shiny!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Wrong country. Norway is Sweden's richer cousin. The Pirate Bay is in Sweden, where the currency is "krona" not "krone" (crown).
Actually the US economy is smaller than the EU economy. The EU does not include Norway.
Cisco routers and switches do this as well although they at least let you continue anyways.
D-Link does one better.
Not only does the DES-1228 (cheap web-managed switch) web interface not function properly with Firefox 3.0 (e.g. the VLAN settings), the switch will outright crash (i.e. stop switching traffic, even after a reboot) if configured using FF3.0 instead of, say, FF1.5 (which works fine).
We even ended up sending one back for a warranty replacement when it stopped working after one reset too many (thankfully the warranty service program is good).
The web-based mgt interface on my PowerConnect 3024 gives FF no problems. (On any OS platform in the house: CENTOS, Kubuntu, or MS Windows.)
Dell must have broken it after that point.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
No, that's correct. Black indicates ground, and red indicates power (which is -48V). This is a -48V system, so it's backwards from what you're used to looking at.
Except the Cadillac doesn't specifically forbid Ford executives from riding in it, nor does Airborne refuse to deliver to UPS clients.
Mod: Insightful :)
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
This may come as a shock to you, but when Mozilla orders servers, they don't write the OS themselves.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
TFA links to a photo tour of Opera's in-house data center, which Google can translate pretty well for some extra information:
Translated photo gallery: http://72.14.213.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=no&tl=en&u=http://www.digi.no/504306/her-kjores-egentlig-opera-mini%26bid%3D3&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhi9EJIJDyjFQXWO9b78y47p_hBSaQ
yes, the concept does really work. Check for the presence of a method or property, otherwise fallback to something for non-compliant browsers. I do it all the time. Generally, its check for the method or property, otherwise alert with an error telling them their browser has issues. I will say, however, that I do DOM scripting that alters the document itself and Asynchronous JS calls to power it all the time. I seldom run into real browser issue. Might be because I do not have to support IE6, per se, just a recent version of IE, like 7 or 8, which are much better.
Aren't dead bodies also a unit of volumn?
As in "my car has a huge trunk. It would hold 6 bodies"
"UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED"
Screenshot & Archive backup, for posterities' sake, you understand, lol... must REALLY be pi$$ing my detractors amongst us all here, right off!
(One for the recordbooks, thank you to those who up modded my initial posting to a +4 INFORMATIVE, up from -1 Troll (done, by the TRUE trolls around here)... yea, my favorite troll who's been down modding my posts must have run out of mod points with which to down moderate with via his alternate logon sock puppet accounts... lmao!)
APK
P.S.=> Onwards & Upwards - "NEXT!" ...apk
Just like old cars. ( pre 1955 non GM , pre 1970s English mostly) all had positive ground.
Who came up with the idea of negative ground anyway? It is somewhere between nonsensical and stupid. No not Ben Franklin, I'll bet it was Edison.
All those school children being taught that current goes one way and the electrons go the other way. That's if they are lucky, usually they just get taught it wrong.
Of course that's just a warning, not just dumping them to the error page. It IS annoying that we do such stupid browser detection tricks instead of coding to standards.
I really do wish it were that easy. Unfortunately the guys in sales always bitch when something does not look perfect in all crummy versions of IE you dig up back to 6 at least. Then marketing bitch that it looks crummy on their MAC. Ultimately however much you try to avoid it, you are almost always forced in some godawful hack.
Even if IE8 was the most standards compliant browser (I think its not bad) on the planet we are still going to have to do this until every corporate browser in the world has been forced to upgrade from IE6. Microsoft are never going to do this though as it will piss off people who do not understand what a crummy browser it is to develop web sites for.
I dont read
and why you ask ? because they have there browser an ability to get around certain types a code and , it breaks protections of sites. Thus if you want a secure site BAN opera.
Maybe instead a getting all upset they should fix the issues or be banned and its a statement that javascript is very widely used and ill be banning more opera soon.
We're sorry - we are over capacity - try again in a month.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Then use a library like jQuery or Mootools. The overhead is low (30-50kb) and the gains in speed, cross-browser support and extra functionality (jQuery's CSS3 selectors in IE!) is enormous.
Even if you're a veteran who knows how to code your way around all the different inconsistencies, it's so much nicer to let a library handle that and focus on what you really need to get done.
You'll eventually run into something or even find that the library maybe working against you in some way. But I want to say that 99% of the time it'll save you time and headaches.
If you can't mod them join them.
whenever they try and get a new computer the websites don't work in their web browser.
The pages about entry-level PCs on a web site like Dell.com or Lenovo.com would hit a different demographic. In this case, marketing would tell the web programmer to make sure the pages advertising "high end 3 years ago, entry level today" PCs work on older web browsers, so that customers don't go to a competitor like eMachines. Not only are they selling to late upgraders at home, but they're also trying to catch people buying their first home computer using the computer at work or a terminal in the public library. But then, major PC makers can still fall back on phone sales.
Less sarcastically, assuming there is a correlation between "runs new web browser" and "buys my product" is not the same as having actual data (and I've never seen anyone with actual data make this kind of decision).
But if your analytics software gave you the landing frequencies and conversion rates per browser version, wouldn't you want to optimize the site for the user agents that best improve profit or goodwill?
I don't know who the fuck hired the morons who decided to implement timed-out sessions with fucking HTTP authentication when they could just have used a form+cookies like everybody else, but he deserves a long, slow, painful and debilitating death. Basically, when you click "Log off," you can't log back in any more until you quit and restart the browser. How usable!
That, and their LDAP auth is broken, and has been known broken for a couple years, and they don't seem to be bothered to fix it any time soon. Basically it only works if there's only one group in the directory. I guess that got covered by their shitty test plan. Seeing how the interface is brain dead, it's quite likely that the underlying code is a steaming pile of crap and anyone but the mental patient who wrote the first version would jump out the window in horror after looking at it.
It mostly works. It's possible, but not likely, that IE's version of getElementsByClassName does something differently than Firefox's version, but the odds are if they implemented it at all, it's correct.
There are lots of places where a check like this won't help you at all, though. For example, try to figure out which mouse button is pressed when an event occurs-- IE and Firefox/DOM use different methods: http://www.quirksmode.org/js/events_properties.html#button
Now here comes the place where I get modded down for trolling: the IE way of doing things frequently, in fact almost always, makes a hell of a lot more sense than the W3C way. Examples:
1) The existence of "document.readyState" allows a Javascript to know if the document is ready for DOM manipulation even if the Javascript was injected into the page after the ONLOAD event already fired (for example, a Javascript which can either be included in the page or as a bookmarklet.) There's no way to do this using the standards.
2) The IE property name "innerText" makes a hell of a lot more sense than "textContent", since "innerHTML" is already in the standards. "innerHTML" should match "innerText", or "textContent" should match "HTMLContent". The standards make no sense here. Given, IE should implement "textContent" (and in fact I think IE8 does), but FF should also implement "innerText".
3) The above-mentioned mouse button handling code. In Firefox and other standards compliant browsers, there's no way to tell if two buttons were pressed simultaneously. Additionally, there's no (reliable) way for the browser to communicate that no button was pressed at all when the event occurred. The standards on this are retarded.
4) The way IE handles events makes it possible to include static event handlers (i.e. event handlers hard-coded into the HTML) and still receive an event object. As far as I can work out, there's no standards-compliant way to do this.
Comment of the year
As the guy who invented it, more than 10 years ago, I'd say this is:
<script>alert(document.cookie)</script>
Otherwise known as the cross-site-scripting proof-of-concept. Top vulnerability on the intartubes for way too many years.
Sigh, because 'looking good and loading quickly' is best acheved with SIMPLE html pages. Which gives standards complance.
"As long as IE 6 is widely used in corporate environments, iLO must continue to target it."
Not quite right. Support, yes. But target? No. If there's standard HTML way of doing something that works fine in IE6 and there's also an IE6 specific way of doing said something, for goodness sake, use the standard HTML version! Besides, thankfully, IE6 does not exist on Vista or Windows 7 so days are numbered..
Fantastic! I nominate yours for a Slashdot Achievement (which if they don't have then they certainly *should* have!)
Most Tortured Car Analogy of the Year ;)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Try Seamonkey around version 1.09 - install plugin as root if necessary. works for me, don't use the java version either. I did this on CentOS 4.3
However, the system most liable to disruption by electric current is in fact the heart. Years ago I was designing a system which had to protect users of a piece of test equipment against an accidental current pulse. I worked with an expert in the UK Health and Safety executive, and he told me that a current of a mere 2.5mA is enough to induce fibrillation in some people. In fact, there is no lower safe limit and in sensitive individuals it can be much less. Get a current of 5mA through your chest and you have a significant chance of dying if there is no intervention.
In the end we fitted our system with a very sensitive earth leakage detector which could divert the current in under 500 microseconds as soon as it reached 1mA. But we still had to include a warning.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Lack of using standards is as much the fault of the IT people who choose products and technologies as the vendors who sell them. The number of times that IT staff either don't consider whether the product uses standards - or worse they intentionally choose proprietary solutions because they like the vendor - exceeds the imagination. It's as much a demand problem as a supply. In this instance, the potential customer was the vendor who was being locked out so it kind of bit the manufacturer on the ass.
Ahhhh... how this brings me back;
Endless, negotiations, technical discussions, proof-of-concepts and adaptations to a customer that (in the end) totally failed to see the value that was delivered to them.
What mr. Steen so gloriously neglects to include in his little story, is that the Opera team was put in direct contact with the sub-contractor, to let implement the changes that would enable Opera (amongst others) as an alternative for remote management access.
The remote access module ran an old fw, that had little support for anything else than IE. You can't really blame the subc., because back when the fw was made; Opera was nothing but a start-up. Anyways; Opera's people now had the opportunity to help develop full Opera-support for the new fw which would be pushed forward into production.
What he also "forgets", is that the decision had *nothing* to do with tech specs, or any kind of browser support (or not), but it was a (weighing my words)... "financial agreement" directly between the vendor of a major hw-component in the servers, and Opera that tipped the scales in the direction it went. Funny, when you see what kind of lawsuits that sort of thing could bring...
Thirdly, when the said vendor totally failed to deliver a functional product, the whole situation became even more bizarre. Now *that* is the epic FAIL! in this story... :-)
So, at best mr. Steens story is exactly what it is; a story. It has little to do with what *really* happened back then. I know.
In cases like this, it seems to me that someone should go back to the standards body, give them a dope-slap upside the head, and say, "Fix it!"
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I honestly believe half of the items above are "standard" simply because the W3C (and Mozilla) always do things the exact opposite of the way Microsoft did them. Mostly out of spite. Especially blatant ones, like "textContent"... seriously, it might as well read "textContentToBreakInteroperability".
The lack of a readyState and a sane button definition are just due to the W3C being ivory tower occupants who have zero imagination and even less practical experience building websites. Nothing else explains the moronity that was XHTML.
I mean, it takes imagination to conceive of a Javascript that needs to know if the DOM is ready without hooking into the ONLOAD event (since the event may have already fired), since it's not exactly the most common scenario. The fact is, though, IE supports that scenario and standards-compliant browsers don't, and can't.
Comment of the year
Don't worry, corporate browsers will be upgraded as soon as YouTube drops support for IE6.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
Maybe there's some NIH, maybe there's some fear that Microsoft has patented their way. Sometimes the standards come first, and it's Microsoft that does it differently. None of it is a good situation.
Unfortunately the "new model" is more of this type of stuff, not less.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Blacks are a minority in my area, and they rarely seem to come by my store. And what with those crazy ebonics, I'm not gonna try to make sense of any of that. Figured the best solution would be to just put up a big sign outside my store telling them they're not welcome.
What do you mean I didn't solve the problem?
Wow man, relax. It was just a joke - i didn't even bother to read your post. The syntax was too weird to understand, and your thoughts are all over the place.
Also you worry too much about how you're modded.
"Wow man, relax. It was just a joke - i didn't even bother to read your post." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @06:00AM (#28805001)
I'd try reading what others wrote, in their entirety, before you go & "joke around"...
----
"Homepage The syntax was too weird to understand, and your thoughts are all over the place." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @06:00AM (#28805001) Homepage
Your lack of reading others' words & offering "critique" or "humor" beforehand is all over the place (as are your pills for your dyslexia treatments most likely, so, stop spilling their bottle, ok? That's just a joke too - you like?)
----
"Also you worry too much about how you're modded." by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @06:00AM (#28805001) Homepage
I worry about nothing, because I only spoke truth (verified by concrete, verifiable facts, from reputable enough sources), & that ought to be good enough for anyone... well, anybody normal that is, who is not a troll.
APK
P.S.=> Gotta love trolls & all their various "techniques": First, they bust on you, & THEN? Then, they try to play "the victim"... give us a break! apk
If I were a troll, you would be successfully trolled.
"If I were a troll, you would be successfully trolled." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @08:15AM (#28805541) Homepage
BOTTOM-LINE: You are, off topic, which clearly DOES make you a "TROLL" (& yet, You were not "modded down" for it? Please...)
(Whereas, by way of comparison, I was modded down for simply defending myself & my points here, & vs. quite clearly "invisible detractors" (the TRUE 'anonymous cowards' around this website really), & for merely stating facts the "fanboys of FireFox &/or IE" could not handle well, apparently)...
Trolls make 1 HUGE mistake: They think folks are stupid... Newsflash/"new NEWS":
People DO read downward modded posts too ("no press is bad press" in other words) + decide for themselves what is what in what is being stated by BOTH parties (provided both DO reply, & the "not men" that only use down mods of posts are stuck with that only, OR, saying "you cannot write"), & to that point in parenthesis specifically?
LOL, that is truly the 'last resort' of the troll, via their 'writing style critiques' as you had. This isn't my "last will & testament", nor other form of crucial or legal correspondence, nor even a grade for an academic paper even, for Pete's sake!
So, to that type of "critique" & my naysayesr on THAT account? I can only say this, in reply/response:
Please - Take your dyslexia or ADD/ADHD meds, & get that PHD in English, before you critique others' writing styles (as the latter especially might lend you some credibility on THAT puny account).
APK
P.S.=> Again - give us a break: Sometimes, the trolls here amaze me with their "effete down moderations" & "ad-hominem" style attacks of myself, but, not my actual proofs & points I noted, & never any actual TECHNICALLY BASED proofs & substance in fact, vs. points I make...
No biggie - I say that, simply because anybody with any sense & that can read, reads my points, & possibly my detractors' as well (well, when they DO reply that is, above their downmods of my posts), & can decide for themselves, as to "what's what" here - I freely welcome it in fact... apk
"No, being off topic merely makes me off topic." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @10:12AM (#28806587) Homepage
Your ADMITTING to being off topic does the job for me, thank you!
(However, you're "StRaNgELy" NOT being "modded down" for it? That does 'raise some questions/doubts' no doubt by this point, in the eyes of others... no questions asked)
APK
P.S.=> Trolls are TOO EASY to expose, especially off topic AD HOMINEM attacking ones, & especially ones that attack others' 'writing style' (minus a PHD in English to the attacking trolls' credit no less) PERIOD, instead of the points I or others raised.
Trolls seemingly always fail to use facts to disprove said points I or others stated when I or others get unjustifiably down-modded by such trolls: Does your kind actually THINK they're fooling anyone? Guess again, & "TOO easy"... apk
"There's no point for me to claim that I'm not off topic. Anybody can see that." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @10:57AM (#28807159) Homepage
You admit you're off topic, & that's all I need to see, along with you not being down modded for it as I was no less - I was modded offtopic & yet I am ON TOPIC, with my statements on Opera... odd that, eh? NOT!
----
"I've managed to piss you off thoroughly with minimal effort." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @10:57AM (#28807159) Homepage
\
You haven't "pi$$ed me off", in the least - it's just a forums is all, no biggie...
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"Nobody is modding me down because nobody wants to waste their mod points in a three day old article discussion.
Hmmm, well, with THAT said by you... then, why are YOU here still then?
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"you're way too invested in this discussion." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @10:57AM (#28807159) Homepage
Not really... I merely stated facts, with backing proofs of those from reputable enough sources as well, & about Opera is all...
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"I think I'm just going to call it a day and declare your flawless victory over me." - by KingOfGod (884633) on Friday July 24, @10:57AM (#28807159) Homepage
I agree...
APK