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Why Developers Get Fired

jammag writes "Other coders get canned — but never you, right? From a developer who's now a manager (and who admits to being fired himself) comes the inside story on how the Big Ax might sneak up on you. To prevent it, he recommends some strategic bragging, keeping a CYA (Cover Your ...) folder to document your efforts, and making sure that your talent isn't frittered away so much that even your most mediocre colleagues look good. "

406 of 535 comments (clear)

  1. From My Simpleton Point of View by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Informative
    After reading this article, it sure puts things into perspective about how I was raised. It seems that Eric Spiegel and I have very different perspectives and work ethic. If you do a good job, you will be rewarded. Three things that will do nothing for you are bitching, bragging and blaming. Avoid them like the plague -- that is, of course, unless they're listed in your job description.

    However, some people truly have their heads buried in the sand (or their code).

    Yes, imagine the shock and horror that you would see on people's faces if I spent my time doing what I'm getting paid to do: develop code. Yes, I'm young. No, I've never been fired but I've been "hired then unhired" out of college because of a poor job environment in the locale of my origin. No matter, plenty of jobs were out there for me.

    Spiegel claims he's fired people. I wonder how he would have chosen people if he saw through an employee's thinly veiled attempts to make himself look better? Or if he knew that employee spent time trying to cover his or her own ass instead of -- you know -- just get work done? These points aren't addressed in the blog.

    So for those of you reading this, I will offer you an alternative to what the blog suggests. I imagine most developers (even agile developers) have a system for tracking completed requirements and also for fixing reported errors/bugs. If you spend your time chewing up those outstanding items and forget about all this near-Machiavellian bullshit manipulation Spiegel is proposing then you've got nothing to worry about. If your manager wants to fire you, just pull up the numbers if he or she hasn't already and show them. You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements. It's that simple. Skip the drama and get to work.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ducomputergeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It depends, if said developer is completing the most work, but also one of the highest paid, then the next round of down sizing it goes something like this:

      PHB: Hmmm, Bob is making over $X. I see he's the most productive, but we could higher two new grads and an intern for the same amount. They'd be at least that productive right?

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    2. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree that good metrics are the way to go, but be careful on what you measure, no tracking system is complete enough to follow all relevant parameters (and if it were, it will be such a pain to have it up to date that it would be useless).

      Metrics are useful to prove a point, but are not the point.

    3. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Herkum01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      His advice seems to be "If you are a great programmer, you still have to get out and market". Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all? It is like these guys think marketing is the best way to do everything.

      Got a crappy product, market more; Sued for incompetence? Create a press release.

      Yes, this crap bothers me.

    4. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

      Alex Trebek: "Hmmm, Bob is making over $X. I see he's the most productive, but we could higher two new grads and an intern for the same amount. They'd be at least that productive right?"
      Contestant: "What is the final nail on a project's coffin, Alex?"
      Alex Trebek: "Right you are!"
      Contestant: "I'll stay in the same category and take 'Stupid Managers' for $800."
      Alex Trebek: "The answer is: Half your team has been fired and your manager has moved software modules to be developed in this country."
      Contestant: "What is India?"
      Alex Trebek: "Correct again!"

      --
      My work here is dung.
    5. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Nkwe · · Score: 1

      You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements. It's that simple. Skip the drama and get to work.

      Sure you can.

      In a really large company or a public service sector job you may have a Human Resources department with policies that offer some protection, but otherwise you manager can fire you just because he or she feels like it. Did your original job offer letter mention anything about employment being "at will"? if so you can be fired for any reason or none at all.

      If you want to keep your job you need to make it politically unfeasible to be fired (in addition to doing your regular work). The TFA mentions a couple of ways to do this.

    6. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      Even the most competent developers do get fired. No matter what you do you can get fired.

      Well, there is one thing you can do to avoid firing: become a manager. The number of managers never go down (due to Parkinson's law).

    7. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Jurily · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you do a good job, you will be rewarded.

      Wrong. If the boss thinks you do a good job. Unfortunately, the amount of brainpower used when debugging can't really be measured, and wildly varies based on outside factors, like your API working correctly, the quality of the bug report, the type of bug (ever had one of those that only come out when you gave up looking for it?) etc.

      Bragging and blaming will let the boss know about those factors, so he may appreciate your 3 fixed heisenbugs where you had to hunt down the reporter who was on vacation more than your coworkers' 10 off-by-ones taking 5 minutes each. If you ignore office politics, you'll be on the wrong end of it.

    8. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by qbzzt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      His advice seems to be "If you are a great programmer, you still have to get out and market". Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all?

      In a word, no. The reason they can't do it is that measuring the value of n programmers on a team would require reading and understanding all of their code. Managers have too much other work.

      You need to make the job of the people around you easier. That includes your manager.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    9. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by kaoshin · · Score: 1

      Just because something is a bad decision doesn't mean someone won't make it. It all rather depends on who you work for, and it is probably a bad idea for people to overgeneralize office politics.

    10. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by EvilBudMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      --Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all?--

      I appears that they can't. I haven't seen one in a long time that even had a clue as to who did what. It's just whether you are liked or not and not what results you produce.

    11. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or just not give a shit. I'm a good programmer, and I deliver. If my manager for some idiotic reason or another wishes to fire me, I'm happy to find a new job where I'll be appreciated without political bullshit.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    12. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by alexborges · · Score: 1

      Sorry.

      It doesnt work that way.

      However, I do wonder what kind of a coder you'd have to be if you didnt care about the quality of your work more than office policy. Kudos to you, but I anticipate a bumpy ride in your beginings. In the end, though, I stillbelieve the best stay ethical and get to the top (of the coder food chain: you cant be ethical and be a C*O).

      --
      NO SIG
    13. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      PHB: Hmmm, Bob is making over $X. I see he's the most productive, but we could higher two new grads and an intern for the same amount. They'd be at least that productive right?

      Ahh, PHBs. Good thing they hire real people, who can spell the word 'hire'. :)

    14. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Pandare · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, there's no specific contract term necessary in most states. If you work in the US, the presumption is that you are at will. Now, there are some exceptions, but those are usually contracted (read: hidden disclaimer) around anyway. Unless you're in a union job (Unions? In my tech industry?) You can get fired for basically anything, since it's not always a lucrative or an easy case to prove. Generally the cost of the litigation is less than finding a new job, anyway.

    15. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by shentino · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately no amount of merit is going to save you if your PHB has a chip on his shoulder, thinks you are incurably rude, or otherwise has a motivation to get rid of you. He will do everything he can to find an excuse to be rid of you if he wants to.

      Being a nerd is unfortunately no excuse to duck out on social graces or office politics.

    16. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Yokaze · · Score: 1

      >> However, some people truly have their heads buried in the sand (or their code).

      > Yes, imagine the shock and horror that you would see on people's faces if I spent my time doing what I'm getting paid to do: develop code.
      > I imagine most developers[...] have a system for tracking completed requirements and also for fixing reported errors/bugs.

      I'd put this not under developing, but programming. Developing code encompasses more than those facts, which you can extract from a commit log.
      Also, the commit log can be safely filed under CYA.

      > You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements.

      There is only one programmer leading in resolutions, the others aren't. So shouldn't the developers, as they are writing the requirements.
      If the commit log is considered as a metric for productivity, you have to exclude the developers as this would create a conflict of interest.

      --
      "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
    17. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by siloko · · Score: 1

      Just because something is a bad decision doesn't mean someone won't make it.

      If we take bad decisions to mean illogical decisions then you can't mitigate against them, simple as that. They come out of the blue and no amount of hand waving is gonna change the decision. And if you think presenting evidence of your good work will turn the tables then you don't understand the meaning off 'illogical'. So like the GP says, just do your job and you'll be fine . . .

    18. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I had a manager once I didn't get along with, and our 1-on-1 meetings weren't very pleasant. I actually got up and walked-out on one, when she told me "this isn't an 8 to 4 job, you know". The previous night, I'd actually been up until midnight working on a particularly difficult problem.

      But when I thought about it, I was being the ass-- not her. How could she have known I was up until midnight working? I was working from home. I didn't send out any emails saying I was working that late. At that time, our company didn't have timecards, and even if it had this was the next day, long before the timecard would have been submitted.

      Anyway, the next day I apologized, and since then I've always managed to find some excuse to send out an email (CCing my management) whenever I'm working extra late, just so they're aware that it's happening. Since then I haven't had any problems.

      The moral of the story: don't "brag" brag. Be smart about it. Managers can't judge you based on things they don't know about. This article basically says the same thing. I know we're all geeks and we hate actually talking to people, but the time you spend communicating to your co-workers is golden, slack on whatever else you want, but never hesitate to pop off an email.

    19. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Dan667 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      in the end, the people who are going to make decisions are people and most of them have no idea if a Programmer is a good or bad one. If you don't make sure people know what you are contributing you are asking for it. Especially if you have to work in a place with a low ethical standard where people will take credit for your work without even a second thought.

    20. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by dfetter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      After reading this article, it sure puts things into perspective about how I was raised. It seems that Eric Spiegel and I have very different perspectives and work ethic. If you do a good job, you will be rewarded.

      You clearly need to get out in the world a little more. What happens when, not if, your boss doesn't see things quite your way? What happens when your hard work feels threatening to your co-workers, who may not work quite so hard, and leads them to do all kinds of stuff to undermine you. You're not working in splendid isolation with some fairy-tale objective criteria, assessed by equally mythical perfectly fair assessors, for success. You're in reality land, and while working hard is one thing to do--sometimes it's not even a good thing--it's far from the only one.

      One example of "working hard" that's not good to do is when you, through your diligence, pile more technical debt onto a project that's already got unsustainably much of it. Another is working hard to accomplish something that's illegal and/or unethical.

      --
      What part of "A well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    21. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by pcraven · · Score: 5, Funny

      I couldn't get past the 'higher' grads.

    22. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      In other words, help your manager do their job instead of you doing yours.

      That is why you do employee evaluations, to see the good, the bad and the ugly. All your talking about is self-promotion in the guise of productivity. It may make your managers job easier but it is has nothing to do with productivity, competence or effectiveness.

    23. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by DrGamez · · Score: 1

      The problem is, "in this economic climate" that second job might be hard to come around.

    24. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by DocSavage · · Score: 1

      Coincidentally, I recently realized around review time my manager does not have any recollection of the things that I did well during the year. I started updating my yearly goals (we use "SuccessFactors") with things that I've done well, improved the process on or saved the company money by doing on my own as they happen. I think that that a manager should be doing that if they are interested/care but it is really my responsibility. In the last so many years I think that it's become evident that you are your best advocate (and should be).

      --
      I wish that I had done what I liked years ago (Internet, WWW, Linux) instead of what I was supposed to do.
    25. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Ritchie70 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As you say, you are young. Apparently also naive about the ways of the world.

      The problem with your theory is that you need to manage the boss's impression of you before they go into the "who do we get rid of" decision making process.

      Once they've decided to get rid of you, no amount of waving statistics at them is going to stop it.

      1. It makes them look weak.
      2. It makes them look stupid.
      3. There's a risk of you taking revenge on them for wanting to get rid of you (especially if you have access to production systems.)

      There's also a practical problem with your suggestion.

      At my workplace, we put one "defect" in the database for each major feature. That "defect" may represent 30 pages of requirements document. We create the defect because we have a rule of all source control submissions having an associated defect.

      If I get that "defect" assigned to me, and complete it successfully, I show one closed "defect."

      If, however, I screw it all up, the testers are going to write 20 defects against the work, and they're all going to be assigned to me. I ultimately fix them all and have 21 closed defects.

      Who's the better developer - the guy who closed one defect or the guy who closed twenty-one?

      --
      The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
    26. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Bill+Dog · · Score: 1

      You must be one of the hirer paid developers. ;)

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
    27. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by qbzzt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other words, help your manager do their job instead of you doing yours.

      Not instead of your job, but in addition to it. Overall, an organization where people go the extra mile to help those they work with tends to be a lot more productive than one where people stick to doing their formal jobs and nothing else.

      And yes, this also means helping your co-workers and the people you manage (if you're a manager).

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    28. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, except it doesn't actually work that way. Here's what happens:

      1. Board level manager's meeting.
      2. [New person] is eager to prove themselves and suggests [bad idea] from [trade magazine].
      3. Nobody else in the meeting has had enough time to read something other than [trade magazine], and so believe [bad idea] is a good idea.
      4. Vote passes unanimously.
      5. Middle management, who has read something other than [trade magazine] tries to politely tell [new person] that [bad idea] won't work.
      6. [new person] ignores cries of pain and suffering, stiffens their resolve to ram [bad idea] down organization's throat, backed by the full power of the board.
      7. Middle management stalls as long as possible, warning everyone of the impending apocalypse.
      7a. Except you and anyone on the lower rungs.
      7b. Those who do find out, bail from the company like rats from a sinking ship.
      8. Costs suddenly rise, due to a sudden vaccum of experienced workers and a drop in efficiency. The effort can no longer be stalled.
      9. A week later, you're asked to fill out some forms and update the knowledge base.
      10. You're so focused on your job, you think nothing of it.
      10a. Alternate: Your manager is kind and says something to you.
      11. Regardless, you're still let go before you can swim to another piece of floatsam.
      12. Upper management cries victory -- everything costs less now!
      13. Middle management develops a drinking habit, but says nothing.
      14. The new people hired in [Country X] think everyone over here is a bunch of idiots and drunks.

      Ta-Da! The end.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    29. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by antifoidulus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, if the two college grads are hot women, and the boss likes snorting cocaine out of navels then maybe....

    30. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      measuring the value of n programmers on a team would require reading and understanding all of their code.

      It's beliefs like this that differentiate the PHBs from the sane.

      There are many, more or less accurate ways of doing this. If you want to see the amount of code and the level of quality (essentially what you were suggesting), record it all and review random samples. Alternatively, give targets to achieve and see how many the programmer can do and what level of bugs are caused by the programmer's commits. I'm not even trying to say that these are the best ways to do it, just that even the measure

      You need to make the job of the people around you easier. That includes your manager.

      There's definitely something to say for this. Thinking of your manager as your primary customer is often wise. However, if your manager is so incompetent that he lets you spend a large amount of time sucking up to him and doesn't say "get back to work" then he has a problem and, given that he's still directly managing coders (rather than a manager of managers somewhere high up who's ass licking skills are clearly his key asset), he's probably someone to get away from fast. Even if he's right about how wonderful you are, he won't be able to tell which other coders in the group are good but straight talking or terrible but good at showing off. His chance of success is low.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    31. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      who hadn't done her job, and needed a scapegoat

      Unless you own the company, and often even then, your job IS scapegoat. You WILL be sacked for no other reason than your face fits the bill, and no amount of employment legislation will save you. thats life.

      Your best bet is a stiff nerve! If that fails, try a stiff dick!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    32. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by eldavojohn · · Score: 1, Troll

      Yeah, except it doesn't actually work that way.

      Actually, yes that is how Jeopardy works. Both on TV and in corporate America: Stupid people get something wrong and lose.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    33. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by maharb · · Score: 1

      It proves you can be a manager :)

    34. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by pedalman · · Score: 1

      I agree that good metrics are the way to go, but be careful on what you measure, no tracking system is complete enough to follow all relevant parameters (and if it were, it will be such a pain to have it up to date that it would be useless). Metrics are useful to prove a point, but are not the point.

      Obviously, you have never worked in a call center. :p

      --
      Friends don't let friends line-dance.
    35. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by russotto · · Score: 1

      Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all?

      In my experience, managers hate doing them and employees hate getting them. So they often simply don't get done.

    36. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by selven · · Score: 1

      Just like many other jobs where multiple people are working on one thing, if you add more people the productivity of each individual goes down a lot.

    37. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ToasterOven · · Score: 1

      You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements. It's that simple

      Sure you can. If you have any measure of intelligence or ethics, you shouldn't... but you can.

      I was laid off from a job after working there for five years, having completely rewritten most of our code from scratch, and ultimately being the *only* person in the company who knew how to interface with the various systems we had to generate reports and performance metrics for both of the company's call centers.

      My final months there, I worked my ass off (often working overnight shifts) generating custom reports that my manager requested at the last minute, so that he could provide data to the CEO, often times giving me 15 minutes notice that he needed some outlandish custom data for a meeting. With the short notice, it wasn't uncommon for the manager to get his ass chewed for not having provided the data ahead of the meeting and for not being able to give any additional details (since he had no clue what was going on with the department outside of the data I had to provide to him).

      So when the time came to make cuts, my manager decided to pass on the blame and selected me, claiming that I didn't do anything. Pretty much everyone else there knew differently, since they actually worked with me daily on different projects, but because senior management was under the impression that the manager was providing the data himself, they didn't question the claims against me. And since it was a layoff instead of termination, I really had no recourse anyways.

      Or if he knew that employee spent time trying to cover his or her own ass instead of -- you know -- just get work done?

      I have to agree with the article on the point of keeping documentation. It's a good idea, though you shouldn't be spending more time doing that than doing actual work. But if you find yourself in a situation like mine, where they choose to mask it as a layoff instead, all the documentation in the world will probably not help you much. I could have easily proved what I did, but luckily I didn't have to, since they soon found out once I was gone and the manager wasn't able to come up with the data he needed, and got himself fired just a couple weeks later.

      By that time, I had found out the actual reasons behind my termination (since I was initially told it was just a routine layoff) and had heard what had happened after I left, but the company chose not to hire me back citing pay as the reason, just like ducomputergeek commented.

    38. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by courseofhumanevents · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm not sure if this is a particularly clever troll or just a grammar nazi in training, but the GP was using "past" correctly as an adverb, not a verb.

    39. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      IMHO, blaming things on "this economic climate" is utter idiocy, if you're a competent programmer. Last November, I applied to exactly one company at a school career fair, and I was offered a job a few days later. I knew several people who weren't putting their eggs in one basket, and as a result were looking at three or four job offers. The situation repeated itself last March (minus me getting another offer, as I had already accepted the other).

      Sure, if you're a sucky programmer (e.g. it becomes clear in the interview that you think "Java Beans" are what coffee is made from) you're going to have a hard time finding a job. But if you're competent it's going to be fairly easy, even "in this economic climate".

      Now half of you are going to tell me that anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything... but you know, Amazon.com (whose standards are high) is looking to hire lots of developers right now, and they're certainly not the only company in that position.

      Oh, and just so I have my bases covered: YMMV

    40. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Mozk · · Score: 1

      What the hell? The correct form is "get past", like the OP said. The grads aren't getting passed to him, nor is anything passing him.

      --
      No existe.
    41. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ToasterOven · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh, so so true. It's really sad to listen to managers say "who is Bob, and why are his percentages so low?" And you answer something like "his calls are much longer because he handles [x] queue" or "he's a bilingual agent, so he gets more calls than other agents" and then they lay him off because he isn't performing.

      Yup, I've been there, done that :-)

    42. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Get them to implement a proper bug tracking system. Then when you fix other people's bugs you have a paper trail indicating that you fixed the bug, and who was responsible for the original code that contained the bug. Then you don't need to brag; you have hard metrics that fewer bugs are found in your code than in other people's and you are fixing more bugs than you are creating. If this is true, of course...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    43. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Seems like you could fit my cocaine in a fat girls navel. And the same logic applies to body shots. You're a real man if you can curl lift a 200lb girl to your face to drink a 1.5oz body shot.

      (actually, I don't think I would drink anything off some random bar skank, no matter how sexy she is. I guess I'm just not manly enough)

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    44. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by jsebrech · · Score: 1

      Think of yourself as a part-time salesman. You're not just building ideas, you're trying to sell them too. How do you sell ideas? The same way you sell anything else: marketing.

      What you call bragging I would call a marketing campaign to soften management up for future ideas. It's the reason I'm a team leader even though I'm one of the most recent hires. It's also the reason why I have control over the feature roadmap of the products I'm developing, which is a rare perk in software engineering. I would have never been allowed to build the stuff I've built the past year if I hadn't learned to talk with management in their language instead of mine.

      And yes, that does mean you have to do powerpoint presentations sometimes. Deal with it.

    45. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by rubi · · Score: 1

      That would be just about right in an ideal world. The truth is that managers, especially up high in the "executive" (the PHB's PHB's PHB) meetings they only care about reducing $$$ and not completed work by any one person, they see the work as a sort of big picture that IT has to do no matter who is assigned the task.

    46. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Osty · · Score: 1

      In my previous job, I was spending more time helping other people fix their bugs, since my stuff mostly worked fine. Of course perhaps I got the easier stuff to do - but since I still managed to fix their bugs or help them find and fix the bugs, maybe I wasn't that crap either...

      That's a good situation, but it's up to you to let your manager know what's going on. Have frequent one-on-one meetings with your manager, and in those meetings let him or her know how much you're contributing to other people's projects because your own code is working just fine (but make sure that's because it's been fully tested and really is bug free, rather than the lack of bugs being due to a lack of actual testing and usage to expose the bugs). You're doing the right thing, helping others out since there's not a lot to do with your own stuff. You just need to go that extra step and let management know how much you're contributing. You'll go from being seen as the lazy guy who doesn't do anything to the team superstar who is always available to help others out of a jam.

    47. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      I'm sort of young (considerably closer to 30 than I am to 20.) Probably not naive, though. More jaded and nihilistic than anything else. If playing office politics is what it takes to succeed or even just to keep my job, I'd rather get fired. I'm not altogether happy with the job I have now. If I were to engage in even a modicum of self-promotion, I could probably find a better position in the same company. That game sickens me, though. It fills me with disgust for the status quo and contempt for the people who play it. Naivety would suggest that I believe that my idealism is shared by others or that it ever will be. I recognize that it isn't, however, never will be, and that as a result, I will languish on the bottom rung forever. C'est la vie.

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    48. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by rubi · · Score: 1

      __deleted__ Contestant: "I'll stay in the same category and take 'Stupid Managers' for $800." __deleted__

      Exept that usually 'stupid managers' are the ones doing the firing and hiring and cashin bonuses for work done, not for where the work is done. Bugs? of course, but that is more work to be done and more bonuses!

    49. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      And that is a huge problem. Losing a job would be no big deal if it was easy to get another. Whatever doesn't have competition doesn't have to be good. Management doesn't have nearly enough competition. Back in the 50's and 60's, weren't there plenty of blue collar jobs available just for the asking? No competing with the 20 candidates left after weeding out the several hundred obviously unqualified people spraying their resumes everywhere, just walk in and 10 minutes later be hired.

      I've ended up stuck under bad management many times over the years. I think it's partly bad luck, partly me missing and excusing the signs that management is incompetent, and I suppose partly that bad management is shockingly common and that because of the lack of competition. What do they teach in management school these days, that is, if it's still a respected subject? "It's good to be the king"?? And there are plenty of manager shills out there who basically blame everything on the poor employee, offering coaching on how to work with difficult bosses and the like, how to be a good, obedient little employee. As if there is no such thing as a boss who cannot be worked with, and no such thing as a situation that is best handled by exiting as quickly as possible. That sort of thinking only enables more abuse. My main regret about the worst situation I was in was that merely by hanging in there as long as possible and keeping my head down, I empowered them.

      When your boss decides, on no basis whatever, that your ass is bare, that some work you did could have been done better in half the time, and in his opinion doesn't help the project reach the goal (even though it does) and you should have figured that out and done something different, all the documentation in the world won't help you cover your ass up again. Boss right, you wrong. It's real cold comfort to be able to mutter "told you so" when, a few months after firing you, they go down in flames.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    50. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Cromac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The larger the corporation the less results actually matter. What REALLY matters at review time is what people, especially managers other than your own, think you've done. It doesn't matter if you've written 100,000 lines of bug free code if you've been quietly flying under the radar and getting your job done you will be rated lower than the person who speaks up at every meeting, sends emails to everyone in sight but really produces very little. Microsoft is especially bad for this, as you can tell by their products. What counts is how well you market yourself to the team and senior managers, not your results.

    51. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by HighFalutinCoder · · Score: 1

      So for those of you reading this, I will offer you an alternative to what the blog suggests. I imagine most developers (even agile developers) have a system for tracking completed requirements and also for fixing reported errors/bugs. If you spend your time chewing up those outstanding items and forget about all this near-Machiavellian bullshit manipulation Spiegel is proposing then you've got nothing to worry about. If your manager wants to fire you, just pull up the numbers if he or she hasn't already and show them. You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements. It's that simple. Skip the drama and get to work.

      That's a double-edged sword though. You might think it would be great if you were simply judged based on a metric like how many bugs you fixed or how many requirements you completed the code for, but metrics like that can also hurt productivity. If employees know they are being judged by these metrics, they will often search for ways to inflate their appearance as far as the metric is concerned. This almost always comes at the cost of actual quality, and can really get in the way.

      Managers that know this tendency might very well fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements if that manager goes beyond the metric to see the real quality of the work that developer does. Not that I disagree with your final point (skip the drama and get to work), but ass kissers and bullshit artists often make it difficult to do.

    52. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by LordAndrewSama · · Score: 1

      Not even bothering to RTFA from the summary alone. I don't care if I get fired. My first job, I was hired a day after the interview, got a raise in 3 months, another raise in 6 months. I didn't bitch/complain/cover my ass. I worked. that's all. hell, if I was at fault, I'd stand up and say "yeah, that bug was me, I'm very sorry and I'll fix it" no matter how bad it was. and I did. regardless how late I stayed. then I moved country. same story, hired day after interview, work, don't bother covering my ass/complaining/bitching and just get to it. I was taken off probation a month and a half early and given a raise.

      I read an interesting article, basically, you are being paid what you're worth, if you want more, prove you're worth more, don't expect them to pay you more and then you'll start doing more work. covering my ass? waste of time. if my boss wants to fire me, he can go ahead, I'll find another job where i'll contribute and be paid what I'm worth. if I don't feel my salary is what I'm worth, then I'll simply start sending my CVs out, see what other people would consider my skills worth.

      so yeah, I agree, a much better alternative is to just do the work, and if you feel you aren't valued, send your CV around, see what others would consider your skills to be worth.

    53. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements.

      That's very idealistic, but it doesn't reflect reality in the business world. I've seen the (by the metrics) best developer in a company or on a team fired many times.

      In none of these cases would I say this was a smart choice by management, but they were nonetheless the choices made.

    54. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, my dear fellow, replacing the "bug tracking system selected by the VP to generate pretty charts" is often a social art form of the highest importance and the greatest difficulty. And the manager often has tremendous power to game the system, by deciding what the engineer's priority list or success criteria should be.

      And getting the code into that source control and bug tracking system is often a huge project that "the bottom line" doesn't justify, at least in smaller environments. This is especially the case when the manager wrote the original code, and didn't put it in source control, so you can't prove the goofs are theirs. I just saw that happening, in a case I mentioned in another post: the manager's code wasn't under source control to start with, and cleaning up the mess introduced new bugs or tripped over strange, undocumented workarounds that the developer was blamed for.

    55. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by caluml · · Score: 4, Insightful

      we could higher two new grads and an intern for the same amount. They'd be at least that productive right?

      And nine women could have a baby in 1 month.

    56. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by caluml · · Score: 1

      but otherwise you manager can fire you just because he or she feels like it

      Not in most modern countries.

    57. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by joebagodonuts · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Manager's have too much other work? I disagree.The first order of business is to mange the people you are paid to manage. Either that, or get out of management.

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    58. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Yeah, except it doesn't actually work that way. Here's what happens:

      1. Board level manager's meeting...

      Congratulations, in not seeking it you have achieved the Tao. Please turn over your existing duties and report to the Yellow Emperor immediately.

      Seriously, I wish I had mod points just now. That one caused sinus damage.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    59. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      Layoffs hit middle management harder than anyone else. It's safer in the rank-and-file, if safety's what you want.

    60. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Now, there are some exceptions, but those are usually contracted (read: hidden disclaimer) around anyway.?

      You can't contract around following labor laws, fortunately.

      Unless you're in a union job

      With some exceptions for governmental and quasi-governmental jobs, the inability to fire union employees at will is a contractual one, which is something you can get without being part of a union. I think the vast majority of slashdotters would be surprised about how common it is for executives to bargain quite thoroughly in their employment contract. Honestly, a tech worker in demand could do the same thing, though they don't usually think of it beyond the basics (salary, for example).

    61. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by TekPolitik · · Score: 4, Informative

      Contestant: "What is India?"

      China for me. I built a team of top notch loyal coders (many with 10 years+ service). We got acquired and the new owners wanted me to (and the CEO) to move development to China. The CEO said "you'll have to get rid of me and the CTO before that will happen". Their answer was to the effect of "your terms are acceptable to us". A year and a half later, development is in China, the local team down to 25% of original strength (with the rest looking) and the product has been written off by every analyst. They bought the company for the technology (and the most signficant technology has been written off by the company, which is now rebuilding that part in a language that is not capable of getting the same result).

      Software development is not a commodity - software businesses that treat it like one may reduce costs, but obliterate the value in the product.

    62. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by nomadic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or just not give a shit. I'm a good programmer, and I deliver.

      99% of programmers think they're good, and that they deliver. What if you're wrong? Might help to market yourself a bit better just in case you're not as good as you think you are.

    63. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by joebagodonuts · · Score: 1

      But it DOES. Management decides what is Productive, Competent, and Effective. I don't always agree with their assessment, but it's their job to make those calls. That's why their job title is "Boss", and mine is "Employee".

      If it's intolerable, then perhaps consider working somewhere else. It really is only a JOB.

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    64. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      If you do a good job, you will be rewarded.

      Well... Someone gets rewarded; it's not always you.
      Fair? No. Reality? Yes.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    65. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny

      Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all?

      Evaluations. What a wonderful tool. I'm a Software Engineer at a large defense contractor. A few years ago on my evaluation, for "Future Position" I put "International Space Station" as a joke. It was there for three years before anyone noticed.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    66. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by vandit2k6 · · Score: 1

      Ha sorry budy, you will not be appreciated anywhere unless you become higher then a developer. I haven't worked for long but you can do a great job and you can get awards at week one but week two (right after week one) you will be terminated. Makes sense? Not to me! Maybe you can enlighten me.

      --
      Its nice to be important but its more important to be nice
    67. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing is, a preponderance of managers are stupid, and it's getting _worse_ not better, so these kinds of decisions are being made more and more often.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    68. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Silver+Surfer+1 · · Score: 2

      --Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all?--

      I appears that they can't. I haven't seen one in a long time that even had a clue as to who did what. It's just whether you are liked or not and not what results you produce.

      Whether you are liked or not is a big part of the puzzle in keeping a job.
      Sad but true..

    69. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Jarik_Tentsu · · Score: 1

      Isn't it obvious that in your job, or anywhere else in life, competency and skills only account for a *part* of your success? My parents always drilled into my head that regardless of how good I was, if I had bad social skills, didn't present myself well or didn't create a good impression, I'd never go anywhere. And from my experiences so far, that seems easily correct.

      I'm not saying you shouldn't be competent, but marketing yourself seems to be a big part of life in general. You can't expect people to go out of their way to try to find out how awesome you are.

    70. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Kneo24 · · Score: 1

      Why would I take the time to promote you when I don't know when you've done something particularly awesome in regards to your work? If you can't communicate with your lead/manager effectively, yeah, you will stay at the bottom.

    71. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Sentax · · Score: 1

      Wow, you described my last job. I swear it was like high school because if you were in the "popular" click, that's where the raises and promotions happened on a more than regular basis.

    72. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ekhben · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I use "at 23:47 mail boss@company imworkinglol.txt" too.

    73. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by DoninIN · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Your Job" Is largely to make sure your manager succeeds in his job. Period. Never forget this, seriously.

    74. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      I can't believe you got marked down as troll, while overly agressive you are dead on. Self promotion while you may feel awkward and uncomfortable doing it is essential, especially in a large team environment. My manager has 24 Evaluations to do, there is no possible way she can fully evaluate every persons work without some self promotion, it is also actively encouraged, you do something good you tell her about it for the record. Self promotion is about making sure your value to the company is known, it doesn't matter if you think your too important to sack, it only matters what your managers think.

    75. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      But hasn't the world proved MS right? Microsoft as a whole heavily markets a mediocre product, but still rules the world in computing (so to speak). So it would make sense that to get ahead in that company, marketing is king.

      More on topic, I do think marketing yourself is a very good idea. Yes, produce great results, but make sure the right people see those results. Many developers have a hard time with marketing. (That's why a successful software dev company should hire a marketer.)

    76. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by noidentity · · Score: 2, Funny

      I couldn't get passed the 'higher' grads.

      Fixed that four you. One good deed deserves another, write? These days highering is at an awl-thyme low.

    77. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm young. No, I've never been fired but I've been "hired then unhired" out of college because of a poor job environment in the locale of my origin. No matter, plenty of jobs were out there for me.

      Yep, you're young and idealistic. Enjoy it.

      When your idealism dies, it makes a little sound as it shrivels away into nothing. Once you're an old developer, you'll realize this sound isn't something odd in the air handling system.

      The problem is the advice is good. Just like Machiavaelli's advice is good, but unpleasant.

      Apparently you're too new to have run into the developer who can't code at all. You will. And you will be amazed that this person has not only managed to survive for years, but there one of the top-paid people in the group. Why? They're following the article's advice. Their boss knows they suck. However, their boss's boss thinks they're a hero. Your boss can't fire the incompetent because his boss will fire him for it.

      When layoffs come, and they will come, this terrible person is untouchable. The boss can't fire them, because his boss loves him.

      On the other hand, nobody's heard of you. Sure, you crank out great code, fix lots of bugs, and in an objective world are a great asset. But 6 months after you've been fired, someone might say "Hey, do you remember John? Whatever happened to him?".

      Fact is we're all in sales. The sooner in your career that you realize this, the better off you will be.

      You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements.

      Ah, time to start listening for that noise.

    78. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      "Unfortunately no amount of merit is going to save you if your PHB has a chip on his shoulder,"

      Ooh I dont know, putting the 3 "P's" on the bosses desktop and then reporting him to mangement should do the trick.

      3P's = Porn, piracy and phising.

      Thanks to the BOFH.

    79. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by mgblst · · Score: 1

      My question is, why would you be aiming to be at least as productive, but now you have to deal with 2 people, 2 computers, etc... How is that a good thing, ever?

    80. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      which is now rebuilding that part in a language that is not capable of getting the same result

      Unless that language isn't Turing complete, I'm gonna have to call bullshit, here.

    81. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by jimbojones71 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Having just spent the last decade working for large multinationals (IBM, EDS, Fujitsu, etc) I have to say that in effect most employee evaluations come down to "work harder not smarter". It is much easier to measure and rate how many hours an employee has worked, than to evaluate in detail the quality of their work.

      This is pretty much how it goes down in my part of IBM:
      - Once a year, the senior guys for your area get together to finalise the ratings for all of the plebs
      - They have a basic set of criteria that are key, such as "productive utilisation" (= did said pleb work themselves nearly to death for the greater glory of the company), "give back" (= how much unpaid extra work did the pleb do for the company), and compliance with corporate regulations (no trivial event in the monsterous bureaucracy of IBM)
      - Occasionally, a manager will try to get some recognition for one of their direct reports who has delivered quality work. Typically they are unable to quantify this in 30 seconds or less to the satisfaction of the rest of the managers present.
      - As you can imagine, with 200 people to evaluate not much time gets spent on each pleb

      Which is a long way of responding to your question "can't companies do employee evaluations at all?" with the answer "no, not really".

    82. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by maxume · · Score: 1

      Why? What if performance is an issue? And so on.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    83. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      Similar story, only with Russia in the hot-seat of countries. Development moved to Moscow, "high-cost non-core" locations cleaned out of any significant development resources (in my case, Sydney). And now I hear they're asking the few that remain where the abandoned codebase was checked in, while they bring on twice as many (but at half the cost!) to replace those who were unceremoniously shown the door.

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    84. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Similar story, only with Russia in the hot-seat of countries. Development moved to Moscow, "high-cost non-core" locations cleaned out of any significant development resources (in my case, Sydney)

      NetCracker network on-boarding software, right? Client company starts with a capital "T"?

      If so, I can corroborate that. Drove that one in Melbourne during a certain um, minor restructuring...

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    85. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by tsalmark · · Score: 1

      "Getting the same result" maybe more that just the output, say like resources consumed - time take.

    86. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's just whether you are liked or not and not what results you produce.

      However, if you are liked and can produce, you've probably got a better chance than those who see them as mutually exclusive.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    87. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by J4 · · Score: 1

      Ah, youth. Eventually you'll find out that you
      do indeed need to CYA, because shit happens. You are not special.

    88. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by PopCultureDiva · · Score: 1

      "I know we're all geeks and we hate actually talking to people", LOL!

    89. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Again, unless we're talking an HPC application, I'm calling bullshit. I can't think of a language these days that won't produce sufficient performance for most applications. After all, the vast majority of performance for any application comes from the selection of appropriate algorithms/data structures. And for those few cases where performance needs to be carefully tuned, most languages provide an FFI that can be used to call out to C or some other lower-level language.

    90. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see the data to back that up.

    91. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      When the layoffs come, it will order of magnitude easier to fire a department/product which is not making profit than trying to find out whether Tim is better programmer than Bob.
      Sure manager can hand pick one or two best, but not more.
      Not that much easier for the manager, but easier for those programmers who *STAY* in the company.

    92. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by jamstar7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is, a preponderance of managers are stupid, and it's getting _worse_ not better, so these kinds of decisions are being made more and more often.

      Not so much stupid as not thinking everything through. Most American jobs were designed with interchangable workers. In fields like software development, talent isn't a recognisable commodity to the boards of directors. Want to cut development costs? Dump the expensive American coders with interchangeable $OFFSHORE_NATION coders. They're cheaper.

      Since talent isn't looked at, from the beancounters' viewpoint, outsourcing is win-win. And they're the first to bitch when the $OFFSHORE_NATION coders have problems understanding the initial design of the application.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    93. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Go ahead, rewrite Open Office or Firefox using an actual Turing Machine. Have you ever seen office productivity or other complex software written using a Turing Machine?

      The rest of us who live in the nonacademic world will say it's not "capable". It may not be the "strict math/computer science" meaning of the word, but that's the way it is.

      --
    94. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by KalvinB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I got fired a couple months ago from a corporate company doing development. The idiot manager who fired me put in the signed document of reasons I was fired two days of me not being there. Turns out I was there. Both days. Subversion logs prove it. He also lied about doing reviews with me. The whole document had zero to do with results. Seeing as how I met all my deadlines and helped other employees out it's hard to lie about that.

      It all boils down to whether or not your immediate supervisor likes you. Mine was an idiot who couldn't meet deadlines for a development cycle and methodology he himself implemented. So he needed someone to blame. When he fired me I yelled at him for a good 15 minutes. I've never talked to anyone I've worked for like that in my life. When he tried to say he was going to escort me out of the office I yelled at him some more. I demanded access to my computer, cleared out everything and when he tried to give me lip for having access to personal accounts I yelled at him some more. I saw him on Facebook that morning. I said goodbye to everyone and walked out on my own.

      I absolutely refuse to play games with people. I am not going to work for a company where I can't just do my job and be appreciated. If some jerk wants to fire me because he's got problems that's not on me. I ended up with a new job about 2 months later.

    95. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      "
      "Your Job" Is largely to make sure your manager succeeds in his job. Period. Never forget this, seriously.
      "

      10 years ago my older brother was a manager. One of his talking points was the inverted pyramid perspective of an engineering organization, and how it was management's #1 job to support the engineers above them. This is the exact opposite of what you said, though perhaps both may be true. My brother is now a VP-Engineering at Google. Though of course I can't speak for what his current opinion of that historic perspective is. Though clearly believing it / touting it then seems to have worked out for him.

    96. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by iammani · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For the first 9 months, no. But from then on its possible, just impregnate 1 woman a month. And wait for 9 months time(which may or may not be acceptable depending on the case) and 9 women would have a baby in a month. All you have to do is forget the first nine months, and hope that you will survive the first 9 months without loosing too much.

    97. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by KalvinB · · Score: 1

      This is why when I got fired from my last company I yelled at the manager who had the nerve to fire me for BS reasons and I have no intention of ever working for a corporation again. I refused to be escorted out and took my sweet time leaving. I went to every coworker individually and said my goodbyes. He accused me of not being at work on a couple days where subversion logs prove that in fact I was there. He had no idea what I was working on when he himself assigned me to the tasks. Grade A Jerk. Nothing in the termination agreement had anything to do with actual work I did.

      As a young but experienced developer I have one goal and one goal only: do things that you can highlight on a resume. If your jerk of a boss doesn't recognize that work while you're working for him the next company will see it clearly highlighted for them and you'll easily be employed somewhere else where you have a better chance of being appreciated.

      You can't hurt real talent. You can only displace it to another company. There is no shortage of work for developers even in this economy.

    98. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Helping other people fix their bugs is not the same as fixing the bugs for them.

      A bit like the old adage, teach a man to fish vs give the man a fish.

      And most bug tracking systems don't allow something like research paper citations ;).

      Yes you can add "Thanks to XYZ for the great tip on fixing this ****ing bug", in the bug comments - but few managers will see that.

      --
    99. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ralphdaugherty · · Score: 1

      Unless that language isn't Turing complete, I'm gonna have to call bullshit, here.

            same result includes such things as response time, not just whatever Turing complete comes up with whenever it comes up with it.

        rd

    100. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ralphdaugherty · · Score: 1

      I can't think of a language these days that won't produce sufficient performance for most applications.

            I have a long list of technical news articles of web based projects that were unusable because they didn't provide sufficient performance to replace mainframe apps.

        rd

    101. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Informative

      Whether you are liked or not is a big part of the puzzle in keeping a job.
      Sad but true..

      Why is that sad? Respect from your peers is an important thing.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    102. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by gfody · · Score: 1

      you know a turing machine is theoretical and doesn't actually exist

      --

      bite my glorious golden ass.
    103. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by quotationspage · · Score: 1

      Bingo. PHBs prefer to hire Highly Qualified Wage Slaves

    104. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by TheLink · · Score: 1

      It exists in the minds of people who say "Unless that language isn't Turing complete, I'm gonna have to call bullshit, here."

      --
    105. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by PiSkyHi · · Score: 1

      I know you're right and it does make sense - I also try to follow this line as well. It just feels that trust is worth so little between managers and employees when we are forced to either punch a clock or waste working time on performance reporting.

      I'll always be in 2 minds on this one.

    106. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by julesh · · Score: 1

      Unless that language isn't Turing complete, I'm gonna have to call bullshit, here.

      There's more to a language than turing completeness. Others have already pointed out performance and resource consumption, but even that's just a drop in the ocean. You'll also have to consider developer-friendliness (try rewriting a project that's 1 million+ lines of high-level OO code with garbage collection in assembly language: you'll never finish the job), integration with other systems (sure, you *could* rewrite it in modula-3, but you'll never get it to talk to the Java RMI-based services that the rest of the company is running on), and platform portability (you could choose to write your code in VBA using Access, but good luck getting it to run on the solaris servers you need to deploy it on).

    107. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by syousef · · Score: 1

      "Your Job" Is largely to make sure your manager succeeds in his job. Period. Never forget this, seriously.

      What if your manager's success depends on eliminating your position and destroying everything you hold sacred?

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    108. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by julesh · · Score: 1

      Again, unless we're talking an HPC application, I'm calling bullshit. I can't think of a language these days that won't produce sufficient performance for most applications. After all, the vast majority of performance for any application comes from the selection of appropriate algorithms/data structures.

      We're still talking about more than an order of magnitude between the fastest languages and the slowest, plus potentially 2-3 times memory consumption. And if we're talking about a desktop application, you can't just say to throw more hardware at the problem, because somebody else is likely to have a solution that _doesn't_ require more hardware, and nobody's going to upgrade their systems (at a potentially huge cost if we're selling to a corporate environment) to use your solution rather than somebody else's.

      The only time you can get away with shit like that is if you have a monopoly in the market area. And most people don't.

    109. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by julesh · · Score: 1

      Manager's have too much other work? I disagree.The first order of business is to mange the people you are paid to manage. Either that, or get out of management.

      The point is, though, that to completely and thoroughly evaluate the work of a single programmer is going to take nearly as much time as the programmer took to do that work. A single manager could do this for maybe 3 or 4 programmers. I don't know about where you work, but I've never seen anywhere with that high a ratio of managers to developers. Whether it's the first order of business or not doesn't make the impossible possible...

    110. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      You'll also have to consider developer-friendliness (try rewriting a project that's 1 million+ lines of high-level OO code with garbage collection in assembly language: you'll never finish the job

      Hint: write an interpreter. You can even pick and choose your OO semantics if the original language's don't appeal.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    111. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      I have seen people being fired because they would not recognize their mistakes and constantly brag about their work and put the blame on someone else. This is why I chose technical stuff instead of sales or management : the results are here to see for all. Good work is visible. I have seen people trying to make up for a lack of technical skill by societal skill. I have seen people lying about their technical skills. They didn't last.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    112. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by dintech · · Score: 1

      What if the language chose is a Turing Tarpit such as Whitespace, Branfuck or worse still, Visual Basic for Applications? Turing completeness seems like the most obtuse way of defining a language as "fit for purpose" that I've ever heard of.

      You earn extra brownie points for "calling bullshit" (no pun intended) without even knowing what the problem domain is. Well done that man.

    113. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by julesh · · Score: 1

      Hint: write an interpreter. You can even pick and choose your OO semantics if the original language's don't appeal.

      Well, sure, but then you aren't really implementing it in assembly language are you?

    114. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      I am afraid I found your "couldn't" so perturbing that I simply could not go on.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    115. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by billhuey · · Score: 1

      Yes, that kind of thing happens a lot. It's the "blame game". I've been caught in it more than once. The first time was dealing with a manager that was very politically conservative and really clashed with software engineering types.

      The times I've been fired to been put into very bad professional situation were with folks that were either completely nuts managing me or were very judgmental and too narrow minded.

      For the sane case, they fail to understand that other folks with very good technical backgrounds can do things completely different than they do can also get important work done. There's a loss of mutual respect there out of their own ignorance.

      I left a job because of these circumstances where I was blamed for failing to get stuff done in a manner that an enemy faction would have liked. I eventually showed it to them that I didn't fit that negative image of me that they had, but by then I happily had submitted my notice and moved onto an all our better job, higher paying, more interesting work. :)

    116. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      It seems that Eric Spiegel and I have very different perspectives and work ethic. If you do a good job, you will be rewarded.

      Huh ?

      Maybe it's a good work ethic but it's not one that actually flies in the real world. That's certainly not how actual corporations work outside of small shops (and if you found one that's nice and pays ok, by all means stay there).

      In any large "Fortune 500" type of corporation, quality has as much to do with rewards as sunspots.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    117. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by TekPolitik · · Score: 1

      Why? What if performance is an issue? And so on.

      In this case, performance was the biggest issue, but not the only one. It wasn't solely about the speed of the algorithms - memory footprint and smart memory management were extremely important. Some languages (probably most) by design separate you too far from the hardware to be able to do that. Sometimes there is just no substitute for getting in at the low level. Even if you can break out into a low level language, you're bringing along the runtime of the higher level language and whatever it has had to load into memory (and the rest). That alone can cripple you if you're producing real performance sensitive software.

    118. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      You earn extra brownie points for "calling bullshit" (no pun intended) without even knowing what the problem domain is. Well done that man.

      I like him! He's a straight shooter! Put him in charge of the Perl UMTS stack project project being run in North Korea.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    119. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by maxume · · Score: 1

      Is Branfuck a derivative of brainfuck that replaces the commands with the names of various grains?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    120. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      What if your manager's success depends on eliminating your position and destroying everything you hold sacred?

      Put women's contraceptive pills in his coffee and then try to keep a straight face while he grows tits. It'll make him much calmer too. Seriously it's like neutering your dog only much, much better.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    121. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The ugly truth is that bosses are people and people like taking the easy way. The easy way is, unfortunately, not to dig into "what do my workers do?" but to simply look at "what do I see without digging". And you usually see the braggarts.

      Then again, I never cover my ass. I simply don't do it. Fire me and keep the braggart, you'll see where it leads you to. Fortunately, there's anything but a shortage of jobs in my field of expertise. Funny enough, the companies where I tend to stay longer usually fare better in the economy. They tend to keep the doers, not the braggers.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    122. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by jasoncar · · Score: 1

      So you worked there too?

    123. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by EatHam · · Score: 1

      You can't fire a developer that's leading in resolutions and completed requirements.

      Boy are you going to be disappointed someday.

      I wonder how he would have chosen people if he saw through an employee's thinly veiled attempts to make himself look better?

      Just so you know, there is a reason why a lot of places ask you to do a self evaluation. As a manager myself, I find them useful because sometimes I miss things. I may *think* I have all of your accomplishments listed, but I may not. Or I may over or understate the relative importance, or the success. Sometimes I look at them and think that the person is more accurate than I am. I try to keep track of everything, but since I have to do it for so many people, things can get missed despite my best efforts. If you don't tell me, you might be missing out on raises or bonuses.

      Keeping track of what you do, and the outcome of it is no more Machiavellian or bragging than putting together a resume is.

    124. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      I imagine most developers (even agile developers) have a system for tracking completed requirements

      What was that you were saying about not bitching? :)

    125. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by gadget+junkie · · Score: 1

      we could higher two new grads and an intern for the same amount. They'd be at least that productive right?

      And nine women could have a baby in 1 month.

      Don't tell the PHB's, they'll try to lobby for poligamy in no time.
      On a more serious note, think about this: if you tell that phrase to any adult, it's a joke; if you tell it to a 4 years old, it's not, and his/her parents will give you hell for the rest of the week.

      --
      "If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
    126. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, here's another piece of advice for geeks everywhere: You have to cope with the world you're in. To paraphrase Rumsfield, you interact with the world you have, not to the world you want.

      You can't make up some simplified, logical, world in your imagination and then cope with that, that doesn't work. Geeks seems to be particularly guilty of this. And when someone doesn't agree with their imaginary world, they declare that person is "stupid". Like my friend who won't accept the term "AJAX" for web programming-- despite it being a useful term to describe something that had no one-word description before, despite millions of people knowing it and thousands of articles and books using it, he thinks everybody who uses it is an idiot.

    127. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Is Branfuck a derivative of brainfuck that replaces the commands with the names of various grains?

      Yes. Just make sure you don't try to use the "flax" operation... instant core dump.

    128. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by pankkake · · Score: 1

      Microsoft only proved that it is possible to sell poor products through marketing, but that's not the subject.

      --
      Kill all hipsters.
    129. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by stuntpope · · Score: 1

      I agreed with his tips and have seen their usefulness in action, and the detriment of not following them.

      Bragging doesn't mean bullshitting. I worked on a team where one member was very extroverted, whereas I'm an introvert. I do my work and deliver it, but don't say much about it along the way. He was the opposite - every little feature he implemented he would point out to a passing manager or CTO (it was a very small company) and declare "hey, look at this! Isn't this cool?" He gave the impression of being enthusiastic, not pompous or a loudmouth jerk.

      And when the layoffs came, the ax fell on me and not on him.

      I've seen similar in jobs since. It helps to get noticed, and merely performing well and cranking out great work isn't always sufficient. Self-promotion and being your own advocate can make a difference. It doesn't mean becoming an insufferable blowhard, but it does mean not being content to fade into obscurity. Not doing it doesn't necessarily mean you'll get fired, but it could make the difference between getting on good projects versus being left behind to wither.

      YMMV

    130. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by 0racle · · Score: 2, Funny

      You have attributed intelligence to middle management. Your scenario can not possibly be correct.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    131. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      You program by eating various breads. Hardest language to program in EVER. Don't ask what you need to do if you need to backspace...

      --
      It's been a long time.
    132. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      And you *really* believe that was because of the toolset they chose, as opposed to the scaling architecture and software design? Please.

      Once again: the *vast* majority of performance is determined at the architecture- and design-level stages of a project. The right choice of algorithm can result in an order of magnitude difference in performance, while fine tuning a hot spot might give you a small multiple, in the very best of cases.

      The real problem is that most people don't know how to design for performance and scaling. But that's an entirely separate problem.

    133. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      The rest of us who live in the nonacademic world will say it's not "capable".

      And the rest of us who live in the non-dogmatic world realize that most languages are basically equivalent these days (hence my tongue-in-cheek comment about turing completeness), and that performance is determined primarily by algorithic and architectural decisions, and not the choice of toolkit.

      The truth is, when it comes right down to it, Ruby, Perl, Python, C, C++, Lisp... given a well-architected and designed solution will do just fine meeting the requirements of your average application. Now, if you're out on the fringes, doing high performance stuff, or extreme scaling, then yeah, Ruby or Python is probably out... that said, <some large percentage> of the time, even in those cases, you can probably use <insert language here> for most of the application logic, and then drop down into a lower-level language when things get tight.

      The point is, being dogmatic about language is a great way to completely miss the fucking point. The real issue is design and architecture. Doing those things right will do far more for improving performance than whether you pick C or Python.

    134. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by rehtonAesoohC · · Score: 1

      Where's the /sarcasm tag when you need it?

    135. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      For my self review at a previous employer (I was employed as a developer), I had no set objectives, so created one. "Wash hands before returning to work". I gave myself a performance rating of 99.44%. Nobody ever noticed it.

    136. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

      I heard it expressed as "Your job is to make your boss look good.". It's equally true regardless of how it's expressed.

    137. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by science_gone_bad · · Score: 1

      ....Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all? ....

      Simple answer..no way in heck!!

      Best evaluation I ever got was worded directly from the old Catbert Mission Statement Generator.

      The reviewer even had the gall to suggest that the 1 non-random (read real) part of the review was the one bad part of my evaluation!!

      --
      "I never get lost because everybody tells me where to go"
    138. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      hey ignored both the evaluation form and you as an employee for a few years.

      No, they simply don't seem to actually read the thing. I got good raises each year (and after my manager finally noticed it and removed it) and a promotion during that period. So there.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    139. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

      (actually, I don't think I would drink anything off some random bar skank, no matter how sexy she is. I guess I'm just not manly enough)

      Well, when you want to disinfect something, you use alcohol. Right? Right.

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    140. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by mcvos · · Score: 1

      It depends, if said developer is completing the most work, but also one of the highest paid, then the next round of down sizing it goes something like this:

      PHB: Hmmm, Bob is making over $X. I see he's the most productive, but we could higher two new grads and an intern for the same amount. They'd be at least that productive right?

      They wouldn't. Research has shown that good programmers are 10 times as productive as mediocre programmers. If the guy is completing the most work and his work is good, pay him whatever he asks.

    141. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Panaflex · · Score: 1

      Actually, talent is very much recognized at many American companies, even at the board level. Generally the tech staff is recognized as an indispensable unit - but most upper managers don't get to see "why" something works or doesn't.

      The business problems you see develop are generally:
      (a) Inability to predict sales
      (b) Overwhelming pressure for growth
      (b) Paranoid fear of competition
      (c) Feast or famine based short-term planning

      Keep in mind that overwhelmingly, most IT based companies are single-product beasts. When they see two quarters of down profits they look at their product and think "something must be wrong" or "how can I make this cheaper/more profitable." They're thinking that it's better to loose a few good people than to loose everything. And it's a credible business decision.

      The disconnect between customers, product(developers) and management is the real culprit here.

      If you work at these kinds of shops, you need *real* reporting and one *very good* no bullsh*t communicator who can move information about production problems, customer satisfaction and management worries between groups. Often times you have upper managers running CYA to the CEO and the board has no idea that the world is on fire until it's too late. Or one group (sales/marketing) is yelling about the apocalypse and another (development/product) can't give honest deadlines or real solutions.

      My advise? Do your primary job well, then document problems, generate a customer buglist plus a needed feature list. The business needs real feedback in order to make good long-term decisions.

      Another good practice is giving your manager a short, one page report documenting the good and the bad each month, AND after each major project (I call it a project post-mortem) give a quick one-pager showing accomplishments, roadmap feedback and ongoing issues.

      If you see short term problems turning into a real issue, grab your boss and let him know as soon as you're sure. That way your group doesn't seem "spaced out and unprepared." Being on the ball, conscious of the business, and showing measured performance and efficiency makes you much more valuable to your boss and to the company.

      You don't have to be a superstar, but being on-time, honest and communicating well will get you very far. If you're an amazing coder then you'll be even more valuable.

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    142. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Touvan · · Score: 1

      I really do wonder why so many people work for companies like this. I think American's in particular, but maybe the rest of the western world, have a fear of competing. Come on. If it's that bad, start your own agile small business, and compete against all the corporate hacks. It sounds like it should be easy.

    143. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Golddess · · Score: 1

      If Bob got more calls than other agents, wouldn't his percentages be higher? Or does a PHB calculate percentages differently than total # calls Bob took divided by total # calls?

      Or something else I just thought of, would the PHB assume something like, the more calls Bob takes, the less likely it is that he is serving the customers properly?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    144. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but I'm thinking of a batch job that needs to run over the weekend and be *done* by Monday AM. Reliably.

      If the've taken a C/C++ app and decided that it should be a .NET C# app (it's still C language right;), and yes I've encountered that) then I could see this making the product no good.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    145. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Oh, and just so I have my bases covered: YMMV

      For starters, you won't get anywhere near the same mileage out if you're a programmer with 3 years of experience, because those unlucky folks (according to the various headhunters I chat with on occasion) are considered more-or-less unhireable. And yes, that's having a significant effect on young programmers being able to break into the market.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    146. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Two people have incorrectly whined about "passed". There must be a web page of common mistakes somewhere with a crappy description of this.

      Grammar Nazi wannabees should leave it in the hands of us professionals.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    147. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by PiSkyHi · · Score: 1

      I think that's generally good advice, but then again I can think of a counter example where following my own logical world view against the tide has made me a rich man, and I'm not talking money.

      Linux.

    148. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Proof isn't that hard -- could you write a C (or Pascal or Fortran or LISP or ...) interpreter in it? If so, it's Turing-equivalent.

      Hehe, and of real interest would be that it's impossible to write an interpreter of that language in C and so on.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    149. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      What makes programmers with three years of experience less hireable than programmers with zero years of experience?

      FWIW, I had three years of experience myself (concurrent with school), and I didn't have any trouble getting a job.

    150. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by kbielefe · · Score: 1

      And nine women could have a baby in 1 month.

      Well, productivity is a measure of throughput, not latency, and nine women can indeed make one baby per month.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    151. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      It's more like an unprogrammed FPGA.

      You could code up a Universal Turing Machine, which is capable of running any other Turing machine possible, with any given input possible, and thus show Turing-equivalence.

      But yes, efficiency of either could suffer. One wonders if some versions of MS Word or Windows weren't written in Universal Turing Machine. Oh, and this is only a little bit of an exaggeration. Windows, etc. did and does way too much using scripts on scripts on scripts. Some things do feel like they're java text-script executing on a java interpreter executing on a C++ interpreter executing on a java interpreter executing on Visual Basic for Applications.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    152. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Again, unless we're talking an HPC application, I'm calling bullshit. I can't think of a language these days that won't produce sufficient performance for most applications. After all, the vast majority of performance for any application comes from the selection of appropriate algorithms/data structures. And for those few cases where performance needs to be carefully tuned, most languages provide an FFI that can be used to call out to C or some other lower-level language.

      Frankly, you sound like somebody who has done a CS course but not written much real world, shipping software.

      How many desktop apps does the average person use that are written in Java? The answer is .... none. If you attempt to write a useful desktop app in Java you will soon understand why. Of course, the language is turing complete. It is also designed in such a way that memory usage/working set size is dramatically greater than the equivalent program written in C++, and it's close to impossible to fix this.

      About a month ago, I wrote some code that processed a large quantity of data (it was locating tree-like structures within a large graph). The initial version was written in Python because the implementation I inherited was written in Python. However its runtime was measured in hours. I rewrote it in C++ and it now completes in around five minutes. The previous version was impossible to work on: a combination of terrible performance and weak/loose typing meant that if there was a typo near the end of the algorithm, I might only find out about it 6 hours later. This is clearly impractical.

      Final example, read up on the Chandler project. One of the biggest problems they had was performance. Python is [a] single threaded [b] interpreted [c] a memory pig and [d] damn near impossible to optimize or compile. This is death by a thousand cuts .... it really doesn't matter how smart your algorithms are if every time you want to do some non-trivial thing your gui stops responding for a few seconds. Works great for simple scripts though.

    153. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by pushf+popf · · Score: 1
      I own a small consulting firm. We do software development, business intelligence reporting and general technology support for small ($5M->$100M) businesses.

      Got a call today from someone in India on the domain "tech contact" cell phone (I guess its their custom to piss people off before trying to sell something). Crappy connection sounded like it was routed though Moscow while the spammers were having a slow day:
      • Telemarketer: "Hello, I'm calling from [can't understand] something somthing India would like to partner with you"
      • Me: It's very hard to hear you. What do you want?
      • Telemarketer: We are an outsourcing firm in [somewhere] and can lower your development costs.
      • Me: Our business requires face-to-face contact with the clients. You really can't help us.
      • Telemarketer: We are very competitive and can lower your development costs.
      • Me: Can you show up at a client's location in 2 hours or less to meet a Service Level Agreement?
      • Telemarketer: We can lower your development costs.
      • Me: [Click]

      Just for shits and giggles, has anybody ever outsourced for a significantly comlplex project and had it come back on time, under budget, without boatloads of annoyances?

      I've worked for three separate companies that have outsourced for software development. The results ranged from disastrous to mediocre. why do they keep doing it?

    154. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by doc_u · · Score: 1

      In a previous job, after having spent the majority of the previous year flying around North and South America managing cabling and infrastructure projects, I got a series of emails from my boss asking me to please complete the self-review form and return it.

      I finally opened the document, typed "walks on water" and saved and sent it.

      He wrote the best review of my work (of which he was completely informed) that I have ever seen, and garnered me a nice raise and a promotion as well.

      I still tell people he was the best boss I ever had. He'd ask what I needed to get the job done, give it to me, and expect the job to be done on time.

      Whenever I'm someone's boss, I always try to be that type of boss...

    155. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Frankly, you sound like somebody who has done a CS course but not written much real world, shipping software.

      Think again, bucko.

      How many desktop apps does the average person use that are written in Java? The answer is .... none. If you attempt to write a useful desktop app in Java you will soon understand why.

      Agreed. Because it's tough to deploy (not everyone has a modern JVM installed), the GUI is non-native and rather ugly (this is fixed in later versions, but alas, Java's legacy lives on), and there's no clean way to install/uninstall apps such that it integrates with the OS.

      'course, that doesn't stop Azureus and Eclipse from shipping, but they're certainly in the minority.

      Wait... you don't actually think it's because of performance issues, do you? Because it's 2009 now, not 1999. The "Java is slow" meme is rather old.

      The previous version was impossible to work on: a combination of terrible performance and weak/loose typing meant that if there was a typo near the end of the algorithm, I might only find out about it 6 hours later. This is clearly impractical.

      Absolutely. That's why real software engineers test with small data sets first before firing up a 6 hour run. You *did* test with small data sets first, right?

      However its runtime was measured in hours. I rewrote it in C++ and it now completes in around five minutes.

      Then you did something wrong. No offense, but if the difference in implementation is that massive, you clearly fucked something up.

      And let's say for a minute that, no, you did everything you could and, somehow, Python introduce a 100-times speed penalty. Big deal, write the performant bits in C++ and use Python for everything else. The software development world invented profilers for a reason. Use them!

      This is death by a thousand cuts .... it really doesn't matter how smart your algorithms are if every time you want to do some non-trivial thing your gui stops responding for a few seconds.

      And that's a completely separate issue. Have you never heard of threads? Or forking?

    156. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 1

      So 9 women have 9 babies in 18 months! That's almost 1 every 2 months. You're getting closer, damn I love math, how about we give fertility pills for the 9 new octo-moms. Then we could get 72 babies in 18 months or 9 months, you choose! ... but why were we trying to make 9 babies to begin with again?

      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    157. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Binestar · · Score: 1

      Not in the real world though. After pregnancy a woman doesn't start ovulating for a couple of months. Most women don't start ovulating until they are close to done breastfeeding. Add in the fact that most women don't get pregnant in the first month of trying you add more time to that.

      Even the Duggar family with 17 kids took from 1988 to 2009 to do it. so 21 years for 17 kids. You can be sure they're a fertile horny couple who doesn't bother with contraception.

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    158. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Cramer · · Score: 1

      can't companies do employee evaluations at all?

      As a general rule: No, no they cannot. I've been at a number of (stupid) companies where they ask the employees to do "self evaluations", which then goes up the tree for signatures. The employees hate wasting their time on the bullshit, because they're never questioned and very rarely read. In other places, the manager(s) do the evals -- which amounts to filling in a form. Problem there is they aren't fully qualified to evaluate anyone's work, and most times don't fully understand what their minions do.

    159. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by DoninIN · · Score: 1

      You're screwed. It's one thing to sit and make fun of your boss when he/she isn't around and make fun of how little they know about your day to day job duties, how little skill they have etc. That's all well and good, even a bit of dystopian dilbert-speak is fine, but when it becomes true, or when you really believe it to be true, you're screwed.

    160. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      Nope, but interesting that my former employer wasn't alone in moving to Moscow... is it really that cheap? From all I hear, Moscow's one of the most expensive places in the world...

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    161. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by ToasterOven · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It really all depends on the particular metric that the management is concerned with at the time. If the abandonment rate (the percentage of calls where the caller hangs up before reaching an agent) is too high, the management would want the agents to keep their calls short, so that they can handle more calls in an effort to reduce the number of calls that are abandoned. So if they see an agent with an average call time that is even a few minutes higher than the rest of the call floor, they are going to scrutinize them.

      You point out an interesting problem that many call centers face though. There isn't always a perfect correlation between the number of calls a given agent takes vs. his ability to service the customer. If he is manning a queue that is responsible for first-level or tier 1 support, his job may be quite simple, requiring him to do some very basic troubleshooting in an effort to appropriately route or escalate the customer's issue, while solving the very basic or simple problems so that the other departments have more time to troubleshoot more detailed issues. In that case, he will take a higher number of calls than agents in other queues simply because the nature of his calls means they will be shorter, but he can still effectively service the customer at the same time.

      Even in longer staffed queues, an experienced agent may take more calls because he is able to resolve issues quicker than a newer agent in the same queue, and quite possibly provide the customer with a better experience than they would have had with a different agent. On the same token, someone who takes fewer, longer calls in a queue that typically sees quick, short calls may catch the eyes of management because of their metrics, but they may be a better agent who spends a couple of extra minutes per call ensuring that an issue is resolved, and preventing additional calls for the customer. Yet they will probably be fired/laid off purely because of their metrics, although the metrics don't accurately reflect their ability to service the customer.

      It's because of things like this that management often incorrectly bases their decisions off of incorrect or incomplete data, because they simply draw incorrect conclusions or don't take a deep enough look at an employee to find out why their metrics differ from the baseline that they have (often arbitrarily) set. And it's not just limited to call centers. I've seen managers do the same thing for developers, attempting to judge what kind of employee they are purely based on superficial things like how many lines of code they produce or how many SVN commits they do, instead of judging them by the actual quality of their work.

      Things like serious attention to detail, efficient production of code, and being able to quickly and easily resolve complex problems in a few lines of code or a few commits is MUCH more important than writing lines and lines of redundant code or recommitting your project 10 times before you finally get it right. Problem is, the best way to measure that is to have someone managing you who actually understands what you are doing, and that sadly just doesn't happen as often as it needs to.

    162. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by k8to · · Score: 1

      That's true, but the converse is also true. And more so.

      I don't even mean that in some sort of selfish fashion. I mean managers need their team to be succesful for them to be successful. An underling *can* be successful despite management. That's just how it works.

      Me? I try to actively create, promote, and maintain a healthy atmosphere of assistance and improvement with my team and my manager. I encourage my manager to improve in areas that the team needs, and I actively solicit requests from managers. I prefer to look at our relationship as one of mutual assistance in different roles. So long as they are well adjusted and don't look at their staff as peons, we get along well.

      --
      -josh
    163. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by k8to · · Score: 1

      I agree that your decision is wise for your personal situation, but i disagree that you're being an ass for rejecting her '8 to 4' attitude. She was the ass. Programming isn't an 8 to 4 job. It's a getting-things-done job, while also being available to colleagues. If you were doing those things and she thoughtlessly questioned your commitment without INQUIRING first, then she's a shite manager.

      But most of them are. Manage your boss.

      --
      -josh
    164. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Panaflex · · Score: 1

      Man, I dropped the ball... thanks for the correction!

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    165. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Fixed that for you (ignoring intentionally bad grammar). "Past" is correct there.

      Whoosh! Going back to the beginning, ducomputer geek wrote

      I see he's the most productive, but we could higher two new grads and an intern for the same amount.

      pcraven caught this and wrote

      I couldn't get past the 'higher' grads.

      Then I replied with my "fix" of "passed", in keeping with the original mistake of using "higher" instead of "hire". And finally, you replied thinking I was actually correcting usage. :)

    166. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      You need to make the job of the people around you easier. That includes your manager.

      No, you don't. Your manager needs to make YOUR job easier. That's the whole and only reason management should exist.

    167. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      Hmm, octomom did 14 kids in only a few years while on welfare. Let's hear it for crazy bitches with fertility doctors!

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    168. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      he initial version was written in Python because the implementation I inherited was written in Python. However its runtime was measured in hours. I rewrote it in C++ and it now completes in around five minutes.

      With a profiler and judicious use of python's ability to nativize cod, you could have saved lots of dev time.

      The previous version was impossible to work on: a combination of terrible performance and weak/loose typing meant that if there was a typo near the end of the algorithm, I might only find out about it 6 hours later. This is clearly impractical.

      So bundle up a small dataset and use it for unit tests. Simple.

      Final example, read up on the Chandler project. One of the biggest problems they had was performance. Python is [a] single threaded [b] interpreted [c] a memory pig and [d] damn near impossible to optimize or compile. This is death by a thousand cuts .... it really doesn't matter how smart your algorithms are if every time you want to do some non-trivial thing your gui stops responding for a few seconds. Works great for simple scripts though.

      Python is intended as a perl substitute. Why are you so shocked that it behaves like it? Works fine for large volume data processing.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    169. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by qbzzt · · Score: 1

      Your manager needs to make YOUR job easier. That's the whole and only reason management should exist.

      Reciprocity. My manager makes my job easier, and I make his job easier.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    170. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Seems like you've worked at my company before where I work,
      your real name wouldn't happen to be Bill now would it....

    171. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      That's a philosophical issue, not a computing one. Assuming the original implementation's data structures are nicely normalized, any implementation is going to have to "the same" data structures. As long as they preserve the normalization of data structures, there is no substantive difference between functions that take "high level OO" to ASM.

      All you really have to do is parse the code, and implement semantics for the parse tree. You will have written a "high level OO to ASM" translator. An "assembler".

      Repeat this mantra: there is no difference between data and code.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    172. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      And they're the first to bitch when the $OFFSHORE_NATION coders have problems understanding the initial design of the application.

      They're also the first ones to bitch when the project is going nowhere in the hands of the $OFFSHORE_NATION coders and they decide to bring it back to the US but the few people who managed to avoid the ax on the first go round take longer than 48 hours to decipher the lunacy that the $OFFSHORE_NATION coders did to their codebase.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    173. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      They ended up rotating the Russian development team through residence in Melbourne, because the communications paths rather suckethed. Naturally this totally negated the value proposition of offshoring. They weren't any better than local people, and we got to see a premium to their unit costs just to get them to the meetings. They had no IP advantage, they were just as new to the product as we were. It turns out that inappropriate HR choices are inappropriate HR choices whether they be offshore or local.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    174. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by initialE · · Score: 1

      I always thought of it the other way around - Your job is to deliver the product, your manager is there to make sure you succeed in your job. An no, this is not soviet russia.

      --
      Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
    175. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by TheSunborn · · Score: 1

      It's not tough to deploy java applications on windows, you just bundle the jre with the app, and use a small tool to convert the jar to an exe that use the included jre bundle. That way you always know and control exactly what java version your application is running on, and you don't mess with any of the users existing java installation if he got one. Only problem is really that your installer will be ~8MB larger.

    176. Re:From My Simpleton Point of View by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      (I know, old thread)

      Sorry, I made a slight mistake, and intended to say "less than 3 years of experience".

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  2. a better idea by ILuvRamen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is kinda vicious but my strategy is if someone else's coding isn't good enough or they make massive mistakes, I don't just let it fly. You don't have to be their boss, you only have to be working on the same project as them because you're the one putting up with missing object methods and bad documentation and poorly written code. Tell em to rewrite it before you can use it and correct them and generally let them know that it has to be acceptable or they get to fix it. If anyone asks about project delays, don't hesitate to throw them under the bus and accurately report that they were the reason for the delay because their code didn't work. Soon it'll become really obvious that they're the inferior employee who should be replaced if possible. Do note that if you're the one always screwing up, I hope you expect the same thing to be done to you. Get better at programming or get a different job.

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:a better idea by IANAAC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is kinda vicious but my strategy is if someone else's coding isn't good enough or they make massive mistakes, I don't just let it fly. You don't have to be their boss, you only have to be working on the same project as them because you're the one putting up with missing object methods and bad documentation and poorly written code. Tell em to rewrite it before you can use it and correct them and generally let them know that it has to be acceptable or they get to fix it. If anyone asks about project delays, don't hesitate to throw them under the bus and accurately report that they were the reason for the delay because their code didn't work. Soon it'll become really obvious that they're the inferior employee who should be replaced if possible.

      Or, you could just come off looking like a jerk to both your team and to your boss. You're on a team for a reason: to work together, not complain about how bad someone else's code (or any other work, for that matter) is.

      If you are a team member and not in a lead role, you're not in a position to decide what's acceptable and what's not. And you'd be foolish to believe that you are in that position.

      Yes, you should let the other person know that improvement is needed, but "throwing them under the bus" isn't the way to do it.

    2. Re:a better idea by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree, give your coworker sufficient warnings. Ask him if he needs help with techniques, maybe a little mentoring. Only rat somebody out as a last resort.
         

    3. Re:a better idea by quantaman · · Score: 1

      This is kinda vicious but my strategy is if someone else's coding isn't good enough or they make massive mistakes, I don't just let it fly. You don't have to be their boss, you only have to be working on the same project as them because you're the one putting up with missing object methods and bad documentation and poorly written code. Tell em to rewrite it before you can use it and correct them and generally let them know that it has to be acceptable or they get to fix it. If anyone asks about project delays, don't hesitate to throw them under the bus and accurately report that they were the reason for the delay because their code didn't work. Soon it'll become really obvious that they're the inferior employee who should be replaced if possible. Do note that if you're the one always screwing up, I hope you expect the same thing to be done to you. Get better at programming or get a different job.

      Of course if I end up working with you on a project I'm now going to have to be paranoid that you'll throw me under the bus the first chance you get. And as a result I'm going to be that much less forthcoming about issues I'm encountering as I don't want you to be able to use them as ammunition against me the next time you talk to the boss.

      The assumption that people are perfectly rational, completely fair agents is something that will consistently get you in trouble, we have social mores for a good reason.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    4. Re:a better idea by djlowe · · Score: 1

      This is kinda vicious but my strategy is if someone else's coding isn't good enough or they make massive mistakes, I don't just let it fly. You don't have to be their boss, you only have to be working on the same project as them because you're the one putting up with missing object methods and bad documentation and poorly written code. Tell em to rewrite it before you can use it and correct them and generally let them know that it has to be acceptable or they get to fix it. If anyone asks about project delays, don't hesitate to throw them under the bus and accurately report that they were the reason for the delay because their code didn't work.

      Based upon this comment, I think that you're an asshole (though I think it's correctable), and here's why:

      If you're not the boss/manager/project lead, it's not your place to tell them to rewrite it, nor your place to "throw them under bus", should a project encounter delays because of them. I've always preferred to offer to help, first, when I saw a problem with someone else's performance, before involving our boss, and it's proven to be beneficial to me in the long term (though that wasn't the reason I did it at the time [1]): I've gotten jobs after having done so, sometimes YEARS afterwards, and, in addition, "word of mouth" is a POWERFUL thing - the last thing you want is to earn a reputation as someone that will "diss" others, first, before analyzing and criticizing your own performance (I note, with no rancor, that you admit to no shortcomings whatsoever in your post with regards to your abilities).

      But, should that fail: Your responsibility then is to communicate the problems that you see to your boss as you see them - and preferably tactfully. This may come as a surprise to you, but, your boss probably already knows, if he/she has a clue - your approaching them, and doing with tact and respect, only reinforces that knowledge... but doing it by being a jerk may well backfire: Not only did you confirm what they already knew, but you also showed them that you're a problem, too.

      However, by approaching a peer directly, and basically telling them to "get their shit together", you're assuming a role that is not yours, without any authority to enforce your demands, and in addition, almost certainly alienating the person you approach as well, which has future ramifications for the project.

      If anyone asks about project delays

      The first rule, on any project, when you're not the person responsible for delivery dates is this: If ANYONE outside of the team approaches you and asks about such, you refer them to your boss. It's almost certain that you're not fully informed, and doing otherwise is a disservice to your entire team. Tell 'em to go to your boss - that's what he/she is for, after all (among other things [2]): They are responsible for the project, overall, and (even better, from my perspective), referring such to them will save you time.

      When you offer your view to anyone that asks, you're affecting everyone on your team, and, especially since you've already admitted that you have no problem throwing others under the bus, you're doing so from a prejudiced viewpoint, because, someone that has no problems sacrificing others has only their best interests at heart, by definition.

      My advice to you - grow up. I doubt you're the best programmer that ever walked the face of the planet, regardless of your opinion of yourself. When you're part of a team - BE part of it, and work to ensure that it succeeds as a whole. Help those that need it, and, accept help from those that offer it, should there come a time when you are struggling (Yeah, yeah, I know - it'll *never* happen).

      If you cannot, well, you can always go it on your own: If you're as good as you seem to think that you are, then riches and accolades await!

      I wish you well in your future endeavors.

      Regards,

      dj

      Notes:

      [1] Call it "noblesse oblige", I su

    5. Re:a better idea by coldtone · · Score: 1

      This is kinda vicious but my strategy is if someone else's coding isn't good enough or they make massive mistakes, I don't just let it fly. You don't have to be their boss, you only have to be working on the same project as them because you're the one putting up with missing object methods and bad documentation and poorly written code. Tell em to rewrite it before you can use it and correct them and generally let them know that it has to be acceptable or they get to fix it. If anyone asks about project delays, don't hesitate to throw them under the bus and accurately report that they were the reason for the delay because their code didn't work. Soon it'll become really obvious that they're the inferior employee who should be replaced if possible. Do note that if you're the one always screwing up, I hope you expect the same thing to be done to you. Get better at programming or get a different job.

      What is your strategy when joining a successful project, (Version 3.0 just shipped and makes the company money) and you consider the existing code-base and developers to be of low quality?

      I can't see how you could throw anyone under the bus in this case.

    6. Re:a better idea by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Or, since you're on a team, you can actually take the time to help your coworker to improve instead of "throwing him under the bus". That way, you get someone else to work with who has a clue (lessening the load on you), and you don't have to worry about heavy metal poisoning via coffee.

    7. Re:a better idea by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      That's what he said.

      If work is unacceptably bad it is helpful to get in that persons face and explain why. They likely don't know. Help them setup a unit test.

      If after you took the time to help them realize the problem it remains unresolved it _is_ time to throw them under the bus.

      You are there to point those who can learn in the right directions, not to spoon feed them knowledge.

      Net negative producers are the bane of all teams and belong under the bus or better still digging ditches where they can be productive.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    8. Re:a better idea by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      This is kinda vicious but my strategy is if someone else's coding isn't good enough or they make massive mistakes, I don't just let it fly. You don't have to be their boss, you only have to be working on the same project as them because you're the one putting up with missing object methods and bad documentation and poorly written code. Tell em to rewrite it before you can use it and correct them and generally let them know that it has to be acceptable or they get to fix it. If anyone asks about project delays, don't hesitate to throw them under the bus and accurately report that they were the reason for the delay because their code didn't work. Soon it'll become really obvious that they're the inferior employee who should be replaced if possible.

      Or, you could just come off looking like a jerk to both your team and to your boss. You're on a team for a reason: to work together, not complain about how bad someone else's code (or any other work, for that matter) is.

      If you are a team member and not in a lead role, you're not in a position to decide what's acceptable and what's not. And you'd be foolish to believe that you are in that position.

      Yes, you should let the other person know that improvement is needed, but "throwing them under the bus" isn't the way to do it.

      Why should I spend all my time fixing someone else's mess instead of doing my own work? It's perfectly reasonable to tell a dev that it's their mess to fix - this is a fairly effective way to make poor devs a self limiting problem.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    9. Re:a better idea by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Spoken like someone with alot of practice, and many years of wisdom behind them...would love you to be part of my team any time of the week!!!
      Cheers (raise the beer mug)

      ps-I tend to agree about most except, that sometimes helping others too much becomes itself a chore that is not part of your work week and might get you some demerit points with the boss..
      I have some practice at ditching work that someone else gives me, by asking they ask my boss for some time, which he will then give me a special task in my project planning allowing me the 3 hours gobbled up.

    10. Re:a better idea by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

      it was pretty obviously implied that the person has been helped and warned in the past and they're still writin crap. People either are good programmer or they aren't and I only want to work with perfect programmers like me who don't make mistakes and if they do, they catch them in testing. People that completely forget parts of modules and write horribly incorrect, non-working code shouldn't be programming and shouldn't be working with me.

      --
      Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    11. Re:a better idea by djlowe · · Score: 1
      Hi -

      Spoken like someone with a lot of practice, and many years of wisdom behind them...

      Yeah, lots of practice, though I'm not quite willing to call it "wisdom": Hell, I still haven't figured out what I want to be when I "grow up" *grin*

      would love you to be part of my team any time of the week!!!

      Well, thanks! However, I'm happily employed ATM. Should that change, I'll be sure to look you up :)

      ps-I tend to agree about most except, that sometimes helping others too much becomes itself a chore that is not part of your work week and might get you some demerit points with the boss..

      Yes, and that's why I said "Should that fail", etc. - the point was (and is): Help as best you can, first, and only involve your boss *after* you see that it isn't working. Where/when that is, and when you draw the line on such is highly circumstantial, and unfortunately something that everyone has to decide for themselves.

      However, being willing to throw someone under the bus just because they're not as "good" as I am, without doing more than just telling them they're messing up and not trying to help them? Sorry, I can't do that, and I'd not want to have to work with someone that can (nor have anything else to do with them, for that matter - life can be tough enough on its own without such).

      Regards,

      dj

  3. Doesn't help. by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wasn't fired because I didn't toot my horn. I got fired because I knew the system too well -- and when upper management was told about this, specifically about a distinct lack of guidance in their security policies and documentation, they canned me. The reason developers get fired is either for the same reason most people get fired -- namely that they piss off the wrong person and they find someone in power to make their dream come true (and someone else's nightmare to begin), -OR- they learn too much about the system and not enough about politics and get caught by surprise when they try to implement a change that is a political hotbed. My last job: In-house developer doing network/system administration, deployment, and integration tasks.

    Very often, developing stuff (especially in-house) has conflicting political goals, which are distinct from the design goals. Each team wants a certain piece of the pie and wants assurances they are "indespensible". Well, the problem is that in every project people need to work together and so there is always some overlap or need for integration -- which is fought tooth and nail because once things are integrated and made redundant (as business should be) -- people stop being "indepensible". So those that are slightly more politically aware find ways to strategically delay the project or insert superfluous technical considerations. And should a really good developer see this and figure out a way to convince others (by the strength of his/her design argument) -- this person will very quickly find a surprise pink slip for some random reason.

    Keeping your job as a developer is as dependent on your ability to design well as it is on your ability to know when to duck.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Doesn't help. by _PimpDaddy7_ · · Score: 5, Informative

      I got laid off in 2002 specifically because I was vocal and did my best to try and make for a better work environment. The problem was that management was TOO political. The parent poster is 100% accurate. After that I learned, never to be vocal. Give simple opinions and never give negative feedback, or try not to do so.

    2. Re:Doesn't help. by nomadic · · Score: 1

      I got laid off in 2002 specifically because I was vocal and did my best to try and make for a better work environment.

      Maybe they thought your being vocal was making a worse work environment for everyone else.

    3. Re:Doesn't help. by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      Ever heard the saying too many chiefs and not enough indians...?

      Yeah, that's what you'd be. An indian trying to be a chief. And chances are you are gonna get fired a lot.

      Have fun :)

    4. Re:Doesn't help. by fractalspace · · Score: 1

      You are paid to do what you are told to do. Making a stand against the management on your personal philosophy is not exactly "...Highlighintg distinct lack of guidance in their security policies and documentation". If you want your personal agenda implemented, then start your own company. If I find something wrong in how things are done, I make sure all the stakeholders are aware of my objections. My actions however follow what my manager would finally ask me to do. Cant argue with the dough. - myself

    5. Re:Doesn't help. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I got laid off in 2002 specifically because I was vocal and did my best to try and make for a better work environment.

      What do you mean by being vocal? If you are constantly suggesting changes to the way people work, people may start to see you as a troublemaker even if your suggestions are good. I've seen the type: young, over-eager and making many good suggestions... to the wrong people. Going over their bosses' heads. Upstaging senior teammates. Even claiming credit for team efforts. That sort of thing.

      On the other hand... celebrate success! That is what the article is on about. When your team completes an objective, send an email to the stakeholders: "Today we rolled out system xyz, thanks to the hard work and dedication of the team!", something like that. And make sure you are in a position to send that mail! If you are the project manager, it'll likely be ok. If you have someone above you who is also closely involved with your work, check with them first. And if they prefer to handle such announcements, make sure they do it!

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    6. Re:Doesn't help. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Of all the places I've worked, 100% of the small outfits (5-15 people) have had rampant cutthroat office politics with a heaping side of subterfuge. 100% of the large outfits (multi-department) have had a refreshing lack of politics and subterfuge.

    7. Re:Doesn't help. by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      God forbid that technical people make the technical decisions.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    8. Re:Doesn't help. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with this one. I've worked in small, medium, and large companies. The small companies were the worst for office politics. The huge ones had office politics, but they were at the upper levels, and didn't affect us rank-and-file engineers at all unless our team got laid off.

      My view of small companies is that, unlike big companies, they vary greatly. Some might have nice work environments, and others will be nightmares; it's all up to the owners. Big companies, OTOH, are much more homogeneous. They can't treat employees too badly, because they'll sue and get a gigantic judgment (after all, the big companies are the ones with the deepest pockets), and they're the ones that have put the most effort into making their workplaces as employee-friendly as possible to avoid lawsuits and to maximize productivity: they have mandatory classes on things like diversity and tolerance, how to have effective meetings, etc., and are also the fastest to can your ass if you do anything that can be interpreted as sexual harassment, whereas at many small companies that behavior is the norm.

    9. Re:Doesn't help. by mgblst · · Score: 1

      You have to be careful in this situation, or you come of at best as a dick, at worst as a non-team player. You need to remember that you don't have the full picture, you don't know what the company will be doing in a month, that could negate all your attempts, and will actually annoy a lot of people.

    10. Re:Doesn't help. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to hear your manager's side of the story. I've never seen anybody get fired for pointing out a security vulnerability. In fact, I used to point them out all the time.

      One thing you might want to keep in mind is that what's important isn't always what you say, but the way you say it (and the forum in which it's said). I once nearly got fired for saying something that desperately need to be said--just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      In a nutshell, I headed up a tool-selection process, selected a tool, wrote up a report, only to have our choice overruled because the vendor was supposedly about to go out of business (they didn't, and this was about 10 years ago). Despite my protestations to my immediate management layer, I was asked to cobble together a demo of the inferior tool, in what turned out to be a dry-run for a client-facing demo (but nobody bothered to tell me that higher purpose).

      During the demo, higher-ups were grilling me on why the tool couldn't do what it needed to do, and finally I got sick and tired of defending the inferior tool and I just lost it. I finally had everyone's attention, and I emitted a painfully detailed explanation, replete with 4-letter-words, of why their chosen solution was inferior and would never meet the project requirements. Toes were stepped on, egos were bruised, and I spared no one. If the client had been there (not that I would have ever done this in front of the client, but how could management know this?), my firm would have lost millions of dollars.

      It's a miracle I wasn't fired for that little stunt. I was spared only because they had nobody who could replace me on their tight timelines. Those managers never trusted me again after that.

      So my point is it's not that you need to know when to duck. It's that you need to know how to state your case, when to state your case, and to whom to state your case. Furthermore, you need to understand when rank is being pulled on you, and when your helpfullness crosses the line into insubordination.

      If you look at your situation impartially, can you objectively claim that you followed the above rules about stating your case? Or did you conduct yourself unprofessionally as I did during that demo?

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    11. Re:Doesn't help. by Bob_Who · · Score: 1

      Keeping your job as a developer is as dependent on your ability to design well as it is on your ability to know when to duck.

      Welcome to the machine.

    12. Re:Doesn't help. by mrbester · · Score: 1

      "If the client had been there (not that I would have ever done this in front of the client, but how could management know this?), my firm would have lost millions of dollars."

      And it would have served them damn well right. First they lie about why the inferior tool is being used, maintain the lie when you query the decision, then they ambush you with the inferior tool somehow being your fault at a demo when they already knew your thoughts about it (unless your immediate manager didn't convey them). The icing on the cake is when they have the nerve to not trust you after you decide "enough of this bullshit" and tell them categorically and artistically where they are wrong. Fuck 'em. I wouldn't have hung around with that bunch of tossers long enough to call the non-firing a miracle.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    13. Re:Doesn't help. by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      It's funny, I've been finding myself in this situation lately. Every time someone says to go to me with questions because I know the entire system, I think of some advice I once heard: "If someone in the company is indispensible, it's time to replace them." For those that haven't heard that before, it's about having someone in your company that can hold it for ransom at a critical moment. I do -not- want to be in that position and I've been trying to do everything I can to force things on others that would normally have been done quickly by me simply because I know it best.

      Oddly, the company -used- to try to keep everything rotating so 1 person didn't end up with all the knowledge in a single area. I'm not sure where that policy went.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    14. Re:Doesn't help. by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      It depends on the situation. At my workplace, I'm the only one in the department (other than the manager) that will stand up to the owners of the company and say 'That's a bad idea.' In the last few meetings, one of the owners has said how valuable that input is. (I think he's finally realized that nobody else thinks they can do it, or something. I think they are scared to, for the same reasons given in several posts here on why not to do it.)

      I'm not always right, but at the very least, I end up with a better understanding of the project.

      Actually, there was once recenty where I lost the argument by a 'do it and you'll see' and the project is completely un-used because nobody can figure out what it's really for. Including the tester who went directly to the owner and asked what it was for. Still scratching my head over that one... At least it was quick and fairly easy to build.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    15. Re:Doesn't help. by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      The reason developers get fired is either for the same reason most people get fired -- namely that they piss off the wrong person and they find someone in power to make their dream come true (and someone else's nightmare to begin), -OR- they learn too much about the system and not enough about politics and get caught by surprise when they try to implement a change that is a political hotbed.

      -OR- they're not good at they're job -OR- they have a primma donna attitude/no people skills -OR- they're not meeting deadlines -OR-... well, you get the picture. While the reasons you've listed are valid, they're far from the only reasons; and I'd argue that in spite of your personal experience, they may not even be the most prevalent.

    16. Re:Doesn't help. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      "If the client had been there (not that I would have ever done this in front of the client, but how could management know this?), my firm would have lost millions of dollars."

      And it would have served them damn well right.

      That's not really an acceptable answer. An employee's job is not to select tools--his or her job is to provide value to the company. An unprofessional employee that costs the company into the 7 figures is not providing positive value to the company.

      I understand your point, and I appreciate you coming to my defense, but I still maintain that my behavior, while understandable given the circumstances I was placed in, was still improper and unprofessional.

      The correct response would have been to say something along the lines of, "I, too, share your valid concerns about the gap between our project requirements and the tool's capabilities--so much so that I have written a gap-analysis which I will ensure you receive at the conclusion of this demonstration. In the meantime, why don't you give me an opportunity to run through the rest of the demonstration of what the tool is currently capable of, and we should set up a followup meeting to detail what's missing and approach the vendor with our concerns. I recommend we get those concerns addressed before we start getting this type of question from the client."

      Do you see the difference, and why my suggested reaction is more professional than what my actual reaction was? Flying off the handle is rarely the correct response to a business scenario (and is rarely a correct response to just about anything life hands you).

      Incidentally, I did arrange to switch projects about 6 months after that incident because the pressure-cooker atmosphere just never dissipated. I wasn't enjoying the work, and I missed my family.

      But I do notice a bit of an attitude-shift on the part of kids fresh out of college these days. Helicopter parenting has resulted in young people who grew up insulated from the reality that life isn't always fair. If they got a bad grade, mommy and daddy would fix it. If they didn't get the teacher they wanted, or make the team they wanted, or get the part they wanted, mommy and daddy would go to bat for them. I get calls from parents of college grads about personnel decisions. College grads! That never would have happened 20 or even 10 years ago.

      Anyhow, your "fuck 'em" comment hit a bit of that nerve for me because life doesn't get handed to you in a neat little package with a bow on top. You don't get paid the big bucks to do easy, well-defined work--you get paid the big bucks to handle challenging situations.

      With a few more years' experience under my belt, I could have easily diffused the situation and turned a huge negative position into a positive outcome. But back then, I didn't have the experience I needed, so I threw a tantrum. Not very professional.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    17. Re:Doesn't help. by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      That's not really an acceptable answer. An employee's job is not to select tools--his or her job is to provide value to the company. An unprofessional employee that costs the company into the 7 figures is not providing positive value to the company.

      It is when they head up a tool selection process. Management's job is not to select tools for developers, but to set goals and standards and enable their reports to meet them.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    18. Re:Doesn't help. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      It is when they head up a tool selection process. Management's job is not to select tools for developers, but to set goals and standards and enable their reports to meet them.

      Whether or not my managers were managing effectively is not in dispute. I will happily agree with you that my managers were not meeting their responsibilities. Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make.

      The point I'm trying to make is that while the world is imperfect, and managers don't always do their jobs well (or at all), it is still each employee's responsibility to conduct themselves in a professional manner.

      We can't control the actions of others, but we are always in control of our own actions. To blame my temper tantrum on the actions of others is just making excuses. They weren't paying me more than the average salary for a family of 4 to be a peevish little snot.

      Thankfully, I took that lesson to heart, and I have not since repeated that performance, despite facing my fair share of challenging workplace situations. Now, I relish being the lone voice of reason in a room full of unreasonable people.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  4. Programming is simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Programming is relatively simple compared to the complexity of human interaction. While we might consider it lame that software development is heavily influenced by purely social factors, it doesn't change the fact that we live in a social world. Too many developers think of themselves as the lone console cowboy, churning out brilliant code few others can understand. Too many developers think if they simply write good code, the rest falls into place.

    The hardest part of software development has little to do with computers, but everything to do with people.

  5. Bragging by qbzzt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Spiegel claims he's fired people. I wonder how he would have chosen people if he saw through an employee's thinly veiled attempts to make himself look better? Or if he knew that employee spent time trying to cover his or her own ass instead of -- you know -- just get work done? These points aren't addressed in the blog.

    I think it's a matter of semantics. Bragging as a thin attempt to make yourself look better when you suck is worthless. Managers are not stupid.

    However, managers are busy. In most organizations, too busy to do too much work managing their employees. Business bragging simply means to inform your boss when you do something good. Don't lie. Don't stretch the truth. Just provide information the boss might be too busy to notice.

    Managers like when you make their jobs easier.

    --
    -- Support a free market in the field of government
    1. Re:Bragging by Lained · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if you're really that good, just take some vacations and make yourself notice (or rather, your absence). Took 3 weeks in a row a couple of years ago, and my boss plead not to take so many days again.

      Oh, and no, I'm not a coder, but what he wrote was quite familiar.

    2. Re:Bragging by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Bragging as a thin attempt to make yourself look better when you suck is worthless. Managers are not stupid.

      Not stupid, but ignorant. Trouble is that if you're good at bragging/bitching/backstabbing when you're worthless, you can make a career out of it until you're promoted to project manager. I've seen it happen 3 times now I think it happens far to often for me to trust PMs :)

    3. Re:Bragging by SuperMog2002 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It doesn't even really need to be bragging. Every few days or so, I'll run in to one of my managers and have a conversation along the lines of:

      Me: "Oh hey, I finished $module for $client. Did you want me to do anything else on that project?"
      Manager: "Nah, just give the exe to $tester so they can test it, and then I'll have $supportPerson install it at the client site. By the way, have you had a chance to work on $otherModule yet?"
      Me: "It's been on my back burner for a couple weeks. I've toyed with a few ideas on how to implement it, but haven't coded it yet. Why, is it becoming urgent?"
      Manager: "I was hoping to have it ready to go by the end of next week."
      Me: "Alright. I need to finish $module3 first as it's due this Friday, and then I'll get on that one. I should be able to have it done by late this week or early next if I hit a snag."
      Manager: "Great, thank you."

      Great, now my manager knows I'm getting projects done and knows what I'm currently working on, and now I know what from my mile long to-do list needs to get done sooner rather than later and can prioritize accordingly. No bragging required. A few weeks after I started this habit, I even had the CEO (who, in my small company, is one of the ones I have these chats with) call me in to his office and thank me for keeping them in the loop.

      --
      Sunwalker Dezco for Warchief in 2016
    4. Re:Bragging by dossen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why does it seem, that the entirety of American business is set up to fall to pieces if employees take more than a few days vacation? Here (Denmark) we are actually entitled (by law) to have five weeks vacation a year, and we can take up to three of them together as summer vacation. This year I even combined it with some comp-time, and took 29 days in one go. And that didn't cause any major problems, since my manager knew he had to plan for it (it did cause him a spot of bother when I quit a week after coming back from vacation - but that's besides the point). I just truly can't imagine working in an environment where you are expected to put in long days (standard workweek around here is 37 hours, give-or-take) without compensation and not even get to take proper vacations...

    5. Re:Bragging by Bed42 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a pretty 'hands off' manager and a bad one who doesn't (1) know on a daily basis what you're currently working on and the rough ETA to having it finished, (2) have ready a prioritised list of tasks to schedule to you or your co-workers. They should promote you immediately and let you take over because you're doing their job.

    6. Re:Bragging by radtea · · Score: 1, Troll

      Great, now my manager knows I'm getting projects done and knows what I'm currently working on,

      Why do you think that? I've rarely had a conversation with a manager that has actually changed their state of knowledge. Just because you've had a conversation with your manager doesn't mean your manager has had a conversation with you.

      Furthermore, your manager's statement that he needs $otherModule is simply because he just got off the phone with someone who mentioned it, not because there is any actual business urgency.

      You're touchingly naive about what is going on, and maybe in your small company you've got good people, but in any large organization you are necessarily dealing with mediocrities who have no interest in what you are doing and no clue what is important.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    7. Re:Bragging by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why does it seem, that the entirety of American business is set up to fall to pieces if employees take more than a few days vacation?

      Same reason you don't give managers coffee breaks that last more than 15 minutes ...

      Because it takes too long to retrain them.

    8. Re:Bragging by mgblst · · Score: 1

      You have just demonstrated how replaceable you are. Looks like you might be next to get fired.

    9. Re:Bragging by mgblst · · Score: 1

      So you have to go have a casual chat with your manager to find out when products are due???

    10. Re:Bragging by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
      Denmark, hey? What's the job market like up there? Darn. Here in Australia we only get four. Oh, forgot about long service leave.

      Never mind ;)

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    11. Re:Bragging by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      It doesn't even really need to be bragging. Every few days or so, I'll run in to one of my managers and have a conversation along the lines of...

      Aye, excellent. And in the trade we refer to that as "good communications skills". I appreciate a good heads-down worker, but one who can produce *and* is able to actually talk, is golden.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    12. Re:Bragging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Another scenario:

      You: "Oh hey, I finished $module for $client. Did you want me to do anything else on that project?"
      Manager: "That's great. Did you see the Bills' game last night. Ah, that call in the third quarter was sh*t. What an *sshole that ref was."
      You: "Uhh. No, I was doing a raid with my clan in WoW. I got some good drops."
      Manager: "Yeah, whatever. I'm having a party at my place Sunday to watch the game. Wanna come? I've ordered a keg of Coors and we're going to get totally f*cked up! Ha ha ha."
      You: "I'm ushering at church on Sunday, but thanks for the invite."

      When review times come, Manager, remembers you as "not a team player" and you slip down the totem pole.

    13. Re:Bragging by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      However, managers are busy. In most organizations, too busy to do too much work managing their employees.

      A manager's job is to manage his employees. That's why we call that job position "manager"!

    14. Re:Bragging by rainmaestro · · Score: 1

      You've answered your own question: planning.

      I can't even go away for a DAY without people noticing (I'm the sole IT guy). Why? Because no matter how much warning I give, someone will wait till the absolute last nanosecond on a project, and need me to do something.

      I took two days off in July to go on a golf trip. Every night I spent VPN'ed in to the network doing stuff because something just *had* to be done immediately (the biggest problem with engineers: they can't wait for anything or ask in advance).

      I can't even *comprehend* 5 weeks of vacation.

    15. Re:Bragging by syousef · · Score: 1

      Managers are not stupid.

      I'd avoid blanket statements and generalisations as a single counter example would prove you wrong.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    16. Re:Bragging by Aceticon · · Score: 1

      It's not bragging as in going around complimenting yourself all the time.

      It's more nuanced than that, for example, celebrating your successes loudly or, when a problems pops-up that needs solving, (if you have it) pointing out your expertise and past experience on the relevant area and other such things.

      To be ethical and fair, make sure that you also mention others when pointing out past successes (as in "Me and John worked in performance optimization at the database level for project X and got the application to work 4 times as fast. Maybe we can help out with this one too?"). Mentioning those (deserving) others that also contributed to a past success also avoids that you are thought of as an arrogant asshole by your peers, makes you look like a team player to the eyes of management and might even help to make sure that if a round of cuts comes around, those co-workers you have worked with which are competent but quiet will also be recognized as valuable and be kept (instead of some incompetent butt-kisser).

    17. Re:Bragging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Many people don't like the idea that they could go away, and the company would do just fine without them for some time. They feel like they have more job security if there is some pain when they are gone, so they (consciously or subconsciously) make that the norm.

    18. Re:Bragging by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if you're really that good, just take some vacations and make yourself notice (or rather, your absence). Took 3 weeks in a row a couple of years ago, and my boss plead not to take so many days again.

      Oh, and no, I'm not a coder, but what he wrote was quite familiar.

      You'll want to be really sure you are as valuable as you think you are, before doing this. Otherwise, it may have the opposite of the intended effect..

    19. Re:Bragging by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why does it seem, that the entirety of American business is set up to fall to pieces if employees take more than a few days vacation?

      Because in any given organization, 10% of the employees are doing 90% of the actual work. The other 90% are goofing off, taking long lunches, surfing the web, talking to co-workers, ordering from catalogs, playing crosswords/solitaire/minesweeper/sudoku, posting to Slashdot, etc. If those 10% leave for a few days, everything does fall to pieces.

      I just truly can't imagine working in an environment where you are expected to put in long days (standard workweek around here is 37 hours, give-or-take) without compensation and not even get to take proper vacations

      Of course you can't. Because you live in a country where if you were to suddenly find yourself out of a job, you wouldn't be completely fucked. Here in the land of opportunity (to get fucked), your job is quite literally your life. No employment? No health insurance. No house payments. No car. No food. It's incredible (incredibly sad, that is) how rapidly you can descend from "successful" to "eating out of garbage cans" in this country.

    20. Re:Bragging by BradleyAndersen · · Score: 1

      This is unfortunately how it is the the US of A. I worked somewhere once where Admin staff all got 22 vacation days + 6 personal days + unlimited sick days. We had a guy (let's call him Zippy) who *gasp* actually used all of his vacation time. Guess what? The office was all abuzz every day Zippy took off. Zippy wasn't technically doing anything wrong, but he was 'out' frequently enough that it started to bother his co-workers, and their jealousy caused all sorta problems. Zippy left after enough of this harassment.

      Yes, in the United States, one of the perks is your boss often does not understand that sometimes one is more productive after a nice break. Sometimes inspiration doesn't come between 9 and 5.

    21. Re:Bragging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It SEEMS like that because people have no perspective when it comes to their work in this country. The reality is that most people can take a week or more with exactly zero impact on the company, but they don't want to believe that so they convince themselves and everyone around them that they're so critical to the core business that if they're out of touch with HQ for more than 10 minutes it will be a financial Armageddon.

      Same reason I have to come to work every day, really. There's exactly no reason I need to actually be in the building to do my job. I have a cell phone, a VPN connection, and a laptop. All my documents are electronic (except when people insist on printing out electronic documents and then shoving them under my door...). There's really almost never a reason for me to ever be physically present in the same location as my co-workers, but somebody, somewhere managed to convince the world that if you're not actually in the building you can't possibly be working, as if my end users will somehow not notice if I'm not doing my work from home, but will notice if I'm not doing it while I'm here.

      As far as working long days, I work about what you do, on average. I make myself available in "emergencies" or when larger projects need to be implemented outside office hours to prevent impacting the end users, but, by and large, I have no qualms telling people that I'm going home at the end of the day and I'm not going to look at their problem until tomorrow unless they can give me a good reason why it needs to be done right now.

      Same with projects and sick time. I have no problem telling people that their projects aren't going to get done in time if I'm sick. I turn my phone off when I go on vacation and only check it periodically. If whatever's on it isn't really an emergency, I ignore it altogether (haven't had a real emergency yet).

      Obviously, some people work in environments where timing is more critical, but, for the most part, American workers seem to enjoy beating themselves up to get a job done that never needed to get started. I'd have to be in pretty dire straits to choose to work in an environment where that sort of self-flaggelation is expected as a matter of course. Unfortunately, most of my countrymen don't seem to have any self-interest, or maybe they view ridiculous deadlines and artificial emergencies as some sort of "challenge". I don't have a problem working extra for real issues that require it, but I'm not going to stay an extra three or four hours after work just because somebody doesn't want to have to wait until tomorrow to do something that doesn't need done right now.

      I don't know. I think most of them are nuts.

    22. Re:Bragging by ciggieposeur · · Score: 1

      I know you hate to hear this, but what you describe is not a failure of "the system", it's a failure of personal responsibility. If a person is not willing to implement a plan for unexpected loss of income, why would you expect anyone else (or the government) to do it for them?

      No, it IS a failure of "the system" when jobs that pay enough to save up six months just aren't plentiful enough to go around. Either pay needs to be higher in general, or prices on needs (not luxuries) need to be lower. That means housing, college loan, health insurance, car loan, and car insurance. There is some wiggle room (what you'd call personal responsibility) to have a smaller house / apartment, go to a cheaper state school, get a used car, etc., but in the end most people would still need to be in the top 40% of the income distribution to have any chance at meeting those bills and then saving up six months on top of it all.

      Funny enough, those "luxury" items you mention (premium cable, touch phone) are much less cheaper than the "need" items. One months' rent in cheap-ass Texas is 6-10 times more expensive than premium cable or the nicest cell phone plan.

    23. Re:Bragging by Dragoness+Eclectic · · Score: 2, Informative

      When you're employed, try living below your means and saving the surplus. Amazing how much less of a panic losing your job is when you have $10-20K socked away in a bank account. Now you have several months cushion to search for another job; you don't have to leap at the first thing that turns up, no matter how bad. You don't have to panic, and you don't have to live in fear at your current job that you might get laid-off unexpectedly.

      Seriously, it's too useful to have a cash reserve for emergencies. Start a savings account.

      --
      ---dragoness
    24. Re:Bragging by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call that bad.
      I have three managers (and a couple wannabies). My offical manager has no clue what I'm doing, leaving my other two bosses that handle the day to day stuff to tell him I'm on-task. I am responsible for prototyping test automation "stuff". I work largely alone on a given project till I hand it off. I keep a running joke that there is a specific company award I'm hunting for that apparently I'm not allowed to have. So far no issues, and it's been a few years under this manager, 10 at the company.

      I value a hands off manager more than anything else. Give me a task, give me time+resources and let me work. I'll give you results.

      My last project was so nebulously designed that had more than one person been working on it, it wouldn't have gotten off the ground for lack of "requirements documentation". The task was:
      Do X
      Must be interoperable with Y
      Needs to produce results Z1, would like results Z2 as well.

      My prototype was so popular (reduced 2.5 man-weeks of testing down to 36 hours of machine automation) that the proto went straight to production, without the planned re-write. Thus I am glad I wrote it as if production to begin with, rather than chicken scratched something out.

      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    25. Re:Bragging by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      I hope you didn't take any vacation days. If I have to do work for a significant period, that isn't a vacation day.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    26. Re:Bragging by rainmaestro · · Score: 1

      I took them as vacation days, but still filled out timesheet entries so I got paid for the time I spent working (I'm a contractor, I don't get "paid" vacations).

    27. Re:Bragging by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 1

      Easier said than done if you're living paycheck-to-paycheck. Like 60% of Americans.

  6. You Have A Lot To Learn by Kneo24 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You must be wet behind the ears. None of what is mentioned in TFA really states you have to take these steps to the extreme. While you never came out and wrote it, you sure make the implication that the writer of the article is telling you to do this.

    Hard work only gets you so far. And guess what else? Hard work may never get you promoted. You go on to make another point on the other absolute end, that if you're a hard worker, you must be the top producer in your company. You can work hard and still fail at what you're doing. This is why people are sometimes oblivious. I've worked with a few people like this. They do work really hard. The work that they do, however isn't usually the best and no amount of training can help them out. Some of them just never got it. Some of them were the type of people who thought that their way was the best way to do things when it clearly wasn't. In either case, they worked hard but were eventually let go because of how their work turned out.

    It never hurts to chat yourself up casually every now and then. You can do this a number of different ways. I'm a supervisor where I work. All of the supervisor's used to here that the president of the company thought we were doing the bare minimum for our jobs. That we were just good little foot soldiers. I realized part of the problem was that my immediate manager didn't really have an idea of what the fuck I did every day. All he knew was that I helped my team to produce a lot of work that generated a lot of profit.

    So one day I took about an hour to sit down and type out a list of projects my team needs to address. These were mostly "as we encounter them" issues. Items where if we take half an hour, an hour even, we could figure out a few things out to help us out in the future. I send this list to my boss with updates about once a month now. It gives him an idea of what else I'm doing and how quickly these tasks are getting done. It also allows him to more easily give me help when I need it.

    So what was the net effect of me doing that besides a little extra help from the boss? The president of the company has personally told me on several occasions that he views me as a very valuable employee. That I have a bright future there and that he would rather not ever see me go.

    And honestly, if you don't spend a modicum amount of time trying to cover your ass, you may get blind-sided one day. You rail against it, but then in your last paragraph you even cite an example of how to cover your ass. Not everyone has access to raw data to pull up, so some tracking on their end might be necessary. It doesn't take a lot of time to do this.

    1. Re:You Have A Lot To Learn by mellon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What you said is dead on, but the point you didn't explicitly make, but probably intended to, is that what you are doing there is valuable. It's not just fluff. Your management needs and wants that kind of communication, and when you provide it for them, they love it. When they have to suck it out of you, they hate it. When they never feel like they have a clear picture of what's going on, it's a source of stress for them, and when you communicate well, it lowers their stress levels.

      Why don't they just trust you? Because they've had people working for them before who communicated poorly on purpose, because they *weren't getting anything done*. And they've had good people working for them who kept quiet about what they were doing because they didn't like the plan, and wanted to go in a different direction and present it as a fait accompli. And, so often, that sort of thing doesn't work out. So if you also communicate poorly, they're going to tend to assume your situation is the same. It doesn't matter how many poor communicators they've had working for them who actually got stuff done. They remember the times they've been burned, not the times they haven't.

    2. Re:You Have A Lot To Learn by radtea · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The president of the company has personally told me on several occasions that he views me as a very valuable employee. That I have a bright future there and that he would rather not ever see me go.

      Translation: we want to make you feel valued rather than pay you more, and are preparing to guilt the hell out of you when you realize how much you're worth and get a better offer somewhere else.

      I absolutely hate it when the bosses tell me how valuable I am, because it is utterly meaningless bullshit unless it comes in the form of increased pay or increased vacation or other tangibles--being sent on a course I'm interested in, etc. Words from the mouth of a human being are worth nothing, and they'll still push you over the side in a moment when it happens to appear convenient for them to do so.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    3. Re:You Have A Lot To Learn by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was going to make a more spiteful reply, but I think you touched on what I wanted to say, so I'll forgo the scorn and just come out and say it.

      Programming ...is an art. That's what we want to tell management and they don't want to hear. They see a product come out, and that's what the programmer develops, and that product can be made by anyone. The product will exist whether it's produced by a crack team of programmers, the very best, or whether it's produced by Joe's Codeshack & Office Supplies Warehouse.

      What a programmer wants to believe is that the artistry is valuable to the company. I have never worked on a company project, but I have to imagine that if you're just another guy in the line, no, it never will be. If you're a manager and can drive the course of even part of the project, then maybe; otherwise, you are filling a part that is by its very design supposed to be interchangeable. Programming is by its very nature solving a problem; there is a way to solve the problem (or there isn't), and it WILL be solved, whether it's by one person in one day or ten people in twenty. You may be better than them, but it's all relative, so you're trying to argue marginal value to people that don't care. In the meantime you're someone who was hired to be a gear, never rose above it, and is crying because you're a cog in the machine.

      What makes a person valuable to the company? Crap, I don't know, ask someone with more experience. But what makes you LESS valuable to the company as a whole?
      * Being faceless to everyone who makes the decisions (being friends with people on the same level doesn't help much)
      * Not reporting what you did
      * Not reporting what you CAN and CAN'T do
      * Not explaining things others will need to know
      * Creating more problems by being incompatable with the others
      * Being an angsty, emo "Management is PAIN" type who truly believes and acts like the company is supposed to be psychic and always pick the best of the litter even when the "best of the litter" (ie, yourself) just sits in their cubicle being oblivious to the world and thinking they're such a blasted genius and that nobody else could do it.

      America seems to have a very educated, very angsty caste of people whom the last point describes too clearly. "If you do your job well, you will be rewarded" is rather cliche; if you are VALUABLE, you will be rewarded. I don't know where the meme that keeping your head down and nose to the grindstone is more valuable than contributing meaningfully to the company--or the country--came from, but it's crap. If you want them to care, make them care. Don't just keep a wish in your heart like a teenager with a crush and hope someday middle management will suddenly admit she loved you all along and come on let's retire to Hawaii and you can write all of our code and we'll never be angry at you again or make you work overtime and have a donut and some coffee.

      I guess I didn't manage to get rid of the spiteful commentary after all. Oh well.

      Disclaimer: I'm young, unemployed, have never been a manager, but golly gee whiz, some people act like children.

    4. Re:You Have A Lot To Learn by Kneo24 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I work for a smaller company, and the smaller the companies are, the truer the words are. Still, I have no illusions based on what I've been told. I've made it very clear to them that my employment is a two way street. If they're not willing to show me some loyalty, I won't show them any. Even in the down trodden economy I could find work in the same field rather quickly. While I get dicked around from time to time, I've managed to mitigate some of that. Besides, you will get dicked around no matter where you work.

    5. Re:You Have A Lot To Learn by mellon · · Score: 1

      Dunno why you wanted to heap scorn on me - what you said sounds pretty accurate.

    6. Re:You Have A Lot To Learn by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      Not on you, really, on the GP; sorry for being imprecise

  7. Keep a diary by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Pro tip: maintain a list of everything you do: bugs you've closed, features you've added, projects you've planned, servers you've upgraded, or whatever else you've worked on. The next time your boss asks if you've been busy, you'll be glad to have a precise and detailed answer.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:Keep a diary by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      also keep a list of everything that DID NOT happen because of your efforts
      include:
      1 actual regulations that you coded for
      2 liabilities that you coded away
      3 Train Wrecks (where the code and maybe the hardware it was on would have been trashed)
      4 anything else that did not cost the company money but could have

      in short make it look like getting rid of you would cost your boss his paycheck

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    2. Re:Keep a diary by jabithew · · Score: 1

      Bang on. I've been in my job for a whole two weeks; when my manager asked me what I'd been up to at the grad drinks I honestly couldn't remember everything. Not that I'm saying I'd have pulled out a form listing everything I'd done, just never underestimate how hard it is to keep track of what you've achieved.

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    3. Re:Keep a diary by pongo000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And the corollary: Prove you've been busy, but not efficiently busy. I got laid off in 2001 from a software dev position. My co-workers on the same project escaped the ax. Why? Because I made the mistake of finishing my work (and finishing it well) before my co-workers. When it came time to tighten the belt, I was on the bench waiting for my next assignment...they were still languishing at wrapping up what they didn't finish. Guess who got RIF'd?

  8. My solution to not being fired. by wangmaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been a software engineer at the company I'm at for about 7 years now. Was in technical support before that (enterprise level development support).

    Here's my solution to not being fired. Make yourself damn good at solving the difficult customer problems no one else can solve. Do it so that customers and executives at your own company request you by name (executives at a customer knowing you by name can help here too). Yes, it makes life somewhat miserable when those ugly ass escalations come in, but you know what, when customers and company exeuctives ask for you by name because you did a great job solving problem xyz 3 months ago and saved a multi-million dollar deal, middle management will think twice about being the one to tell company executives, uhh, that person was fired last month.

    Screw making deadlines, I miss deadlines all the time and haven't been fired yet. Why? Because instead of working toward my deadlines I'm saving multi-million dollar deals that could get lost because of other people's incompetence :). It's a great way for job security, and I love troubleshooting, even if the escalations are a pain in the ass.

    1. Re:My solution to not being fired. by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

      --Here's my solution to not being fired. Make yourself damn good at solving the difficult customer problems no one else can solve. Do it so that customers and executives at your own company request you by name (executives at a customer knowing you by name can help here too).--

      This may work but it pisses off upper management. They will get jealous of you being called instead of them. That's the other way it can go in smaller outfits.

    2. Re:My solution to not being fired. by wangmaster · · Score: 1

      In my experience, when a developer is involved on a customer escalation, it becomes political and not technical. When a developer is asked for by name it becomes 90% political and 10% technical.

      In those cases, upper management and executives just want it to go away. Thus if you can make it go away, they don't care if you were requested by name or not :).

      That's just my experience working and talking with people at large (1000-2500+ employee) software companies. I imagine that in smaller, and even large but more politically motivated organizations this could piss people off. I make it a rule to try not to work with those organizations but yes, you're right, there are cases where this may not work but it's done wonders for my career so far :).

      A corollary to my original post is also that developers need to be able to talk to customers and not get a blank stare or the "whoosh" look on their faces (if in person) or pause (if on the phone). 90% of my task is setting expectations, making people understand what's happening in a way that doesn't confuse them, and 10% of it is actually getting the technical work done.

    3. Re:My solution to not being fired. by wangmaster · · Score: 1

      That's why I put a smiley after that comment.
      You do it politically correct by not pointing the finger. You just solve the problem. The reality is, you're solving a problem someone else caused :)

      You do it right, the mutineers think they did a great job. Their continued ability to do a poor job keeps me working :)

    4. Re:My solution to not being fired. by Shados · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Honestly, in the end, if your company needs to fire people for any reason, sooner or later, nothing you can do will prevent it 100%.

      The company I work for now had cuts during the recession. A member of our team, a "star" developer (actually, probably easily among the top developers in the world). Quite well known, could do the job of 10, amazing management capabilities, deep insights in the business, etc. Not a small company either, douzens of thousands of developers.

      He had abilities no one else had, and without him things would have gone sour, because there was no one in the -world- good enough to replace him. But management saw fit to get rid of him anyway, since obviously he was rather expensive (cost effective though, but they only looked at the absolute numbers).

      After he left, it took an -army- to replace him, and even then, outages occured, some data was lost, and to this day, still, he hadn't truly been "replaced" and things aren't going so well. Now obviously thats a problem with the company to depend so much on someone, and thats a big bad thing, but point is: he was irreplaceable, everyone loved him, clients knew him by name (well, technically, a big chunk of the world does), and poof he went anyway.

    5. Re:My solution to not being fired. by mellon · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, diving catch engineering. I actually like your way of doing it, because you're doing a big save for a problem someone else caused, rather than allowing a bad situation to fester and then being a hero at the last minute (right?). But really, they shouldn't have you in the critical path if that's your work philosophy. Being a good troubleshooter who can pull peoples' asses out of the fire when things go wrong is valuable in itself.

    6. Re:My solution to not being fired. by wangmaster · · Score: 1

      I like that term. Yup, dive catching describes it well, and right, it's not about letting it fail, or letting it fester, but just getting in and getting the job done. In the end, myself, and some of the more astute observers might be able to figure out the root cause, but there's no reason to draw attention to it. Even those that I jokingly call incompetent aren't really incompetent, they just have a different skill set, and mine and theirs complement each other very well.

      Definitely, pointing fingers and being an utter ass about picking up the pieces is not the right way to go about what I do.

    7. Re:My solution to not being fired. by wangmaster · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between being fired and laid off. Even then, there's no silver bullet, but there're many many things you can do to stack the odds in your favor. I think what I do is one thing good to have the your repertoire.

    8. Re:My solution to not being fired. by fractalspace · · Score: 1

      Quiet the contrary. Jealousy is always among the peers. Incompetent middle management thrives known to be associated with a valuable skilled staff. Getting into the to: list of an email chain that ends with "Great Job!! Thanks." from a head honcho, is a nice place to be in.

    9. Re:My solution to not being fired. by NewbieProgrammerMan · · Score: 1

      Make yourself damn good at solving the difficult customer problems no one else can solve.

      Just look out for the "ZOMG what if you get hit by a bus?" fretting if you're too good.

      --
      [b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
    10. Re:My solution to not being fired. by russotto · · Score: 1

      Make yourself damn good at solving the difficult customer problems no one else can solve. Do it so that customers and executives at your own company request you by name

      Doesn't always work. I've been in the unfortunate position of having to tell a customer that X was "no longer with the company", and I've seen it other times as well.

    11. Re:My solution to not being fired. by JAlexoi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are 2 types here:
      The irreplaceable - these people become a burden on any company at the end. Unless that person is one of the founders, it is better to have replaceable parts than ultra specialized person. You would probably think twice when buying a mechanical item that would need any single part to be specially manufactured, with wait time of 4 months.

      The highly valuable, but replaceable - these will be held in a company till the end. Why? Because the value does not come from the person just existing, he needs to do something valuable. And these people are not in any way easily replaceable, nor is there any political controversy over the person.


      I have been both, I quit 2 places where I became irreplaceable.

    12. Re:My solution to not being fired. by dissy · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between being fired and laid off.

      Yes, on one the company pays part of your unemployment benifits, and with the other it does not.

      Firing is just a cheaper version of laying someone off.

    13. Re:My solution to not being fired. by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      You explained the REALITY layer perfectly, Good Citizen Shados, and it usually works that way regardless of the tech speciality, etc. Early on in my IT experience, a company bought my company and immediately laid me off, just after I had patiently and tactfully explained to them that since all the programming had been mine, I was essentially the product of their company.

      No matter. And I have repeatedly observed this same scene with others over the years.

    14. Re:My solution to not being fired. by selven · · Score: 1

      When you do layoffs you try to fire the unproductive people first (unless your management is a bunch of morons, or an entire department is getting kicked out) so no, it's not a binary thing.

    15. Re:My solution to not being fired. by radtea · · Score: 1

      middle management will think twice about being the one to tell company executives, uhh, that person was fired last month.

      Sorry, why do you believe that, exactly?

      You must be assuming that people communicate with each other, or have memories longer than ten seconds, or something. It's true that some people do. Middle managers do not.

      Nothing you can do will ever prevent you from being fired. Everyone should always be in the job market, with an up-to-date resume' and at least some awareness of where the good positions are, so when, not if, you get summarily fired/downsized/laid-off/outsourced you will be psychologically ready to hit the ground running.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    16. Re:My solution to not being fired. by m509272 · · Score: 1

      Another example of a company striving for mediocrity by replacing acknowledged, talented people with "x" number of "y" people that cost as much or less. I had a similar experience. I ran the whole environment (which management should never have allowed but never wanted to pay for more staff), never a problem, only kudos, total support by the internal clientele. I even brought money in from other divisions to support their needs. 13 management changes, most were wise (or lazy) managers that were more than happy to simply sign my timesheet, ask me if they needed to do anything for me, etc. Then, of course, there's the manager that just has to make their mark. Let's replace him with some outsourcing. My client's were sold a bill of goods which I warned them about but they were getting this change rammed down their throats. Fortunately, the clients from the other divisions realized what the deal was and hired me in directly from day 1.

      So after eventually staffing up with 5 outsourcers and a year+ goes by, absolutely nothing new was developed, problems were rampant, clients disgusted, etc, I get a call. Can you come back in and help us out with this, that and the other thing. I was more than happy to be double paid working at my convenience, etc.

      For the young guy, doing a good job is mandatory. Making sure you have people that want to keep you in your job is also mandatory. Those people are generally not IT people. They are your clients and they are the ones being charged by IT to pay for you. The more important/high level your client the more survivability you have. The more breadth of clientele the better. I had clients that went 3 levels up in their management chain just to have him tell IT to go stick it for 3 years on replacing me. During that time I cultivated more internal clients and ended up where I am now. Do I want to spend my time being political, no. I just want to deliver good quality stuff quickly in support of my clients. However, it's simply unavoidable.

    17. Re:My solution to not being fired. by Bobb+Sledd · · Score: 1

      Oh, let me tell a story. Generally, I would agree with you, but the lesson I learned is that "no one is indispensable." The best you can do is to make it painful for them to get rid of you.

      I was a senior technician for a company that sold software as a subscription service. Part of the software was billing and accounting. One day Development rolled out a new version that broke the billing part on systems using Windows 98. We now had 50 subscribers who could not access their billing data, though we were told an update would come soon. (It didn't come for 8 more months!)

      So, 2 weeks after waiting for the fix, I reverse-engineered the updates and allowed the billing module to run on those Windows 98 computers, saving those customers. The customers would call in, and they were directed to speak only with me. Everyone was happy.

      Our software also had a tendency to corrupt its database files, especially if on a network. I identified, and invented a process to find the source of the corruption, and fix the corrupted data files.

      I was also Employee of the Month (out of over 100 employees at the company). It even had a cash award.

      I was well-cherished in this company, and people liked me and liked working with me. So, do you think I was fairly indispensable?

      Well, I was fired one day for being 2 minutes late -- by my manager who really liked me. I'm sure it was hard for him to do. It wasn't the first time I'd been a minute or two late over the past 3.5 years, but I'd certainly never been threatened with termination. So Why was I really fired? Because what we didn't know was that the company was downsizing, and the owner told every department they had to cut one person. In our department, I was the first one who screwed up in any way at all, and so I was the one let go.

      Vindication: They called me several months later and asked if I would consider coming back to work for them. I'll let you figure out what I told them. A year later the company tanked and was sold. (Not so much from lack of me being there, though I'm sure it didn't help matters.)

      The point is, I was pretty much as "indispensable" as you can get, I wasn't even the highest-paid, and yet I was fired for the minutest and trivial of reasons.

      --
      "They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
    18. Re:My solution to not being fired. by bjourne · · Score: 1

      Very good advice. If you are known by name to customers, your brand becomes one of their selling points. You have to have a very likable personality for that to work though, technical skills aren't that important. I met a few of those persons. Decent programmers, but the awesomeness they managed to project through humility and charisma were incredible.

  9. It's tragic... by sitarlo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good coders get canned all the time. Often it's because they have and exercise integrity which equates to shitting on the kitchen floor in today's corporate environments. The advice in the article is entertaining but probably not practical. If you're on the chopping block there is little you can do to mitigate the outcome. It really depends on your *perceived* value to the organization. People are too smart and narcissistic to change their perception of you based on your bragging. Bragging used to work back when most people with power in an organization had absolutely no idea about technology. If I walk into work and start bragging about my work and skills today, my peers and superiors are just going to be annoyed and think I'm a jerk. Bragging about the team's successes, and how the current team is a cohesive unit, is better advice that may save not only your butt, but your entire team's as well.

    1. Re:It's tragic... by Totenglocke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Too true. I work at an IT consulting firm and my boss pretty much told me flat out that I'm going to be in some serious shit if I don't start dragging my feet to bill clients more hours. Apparently I'm too productive and don't over bill. I called my boss to ask him a question about a task I was going for a client one day - 10 minute phone call (maybe 6 minutes of it being the task at hand) and he bills the client for an hour for "assisting me". Now I'm just waiting for the economy to pick up so I can get a new job.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    2. Re:It's tragic... by AlXtreme · · Score: 1

      I work at an IT consulting firm and my boss pretty much told me flat out that I'm going to be in some serious shit if I don't start dragging my feet to bill clients more hours. Apparently I'm too productive and don't over bill.

      This is the main reason IT consultants have such a bad rep. We get paid big bucks and even then we're expected to screw clients. I've seen consultants where lawyers are saints in comparison.

      I say start your own consulting firm. If you're really productive and *gasp* honest your clients are going to love you. It's tough getting started (especially if you have clauses in your current contract) but once you're underway it's smooth sailing with a clear conscious.

      Then again, it's a rough time. YMMV.

      --
      This sig is intentionally left blank
    3. Re:It's tragic... by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      This company WAS run really well by really nice and ethical people......but it seems that once the economy went down and business started to dry up, they decided to throw ethics out the window in order to keep profits up.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    4. Re:It's tragic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Integrity is the reason I'm currently interviewing. I made it clear that I would work through whatever garbage came up, but that I would not look the other way or lie when my self-respect was on the line. After being at the company for years, moving teams, and witnessing extremely unethical actions by my manager I refused to be part of it. Its quite clear that they are trying to force me out, but I'm happily trying to leave instead. The company has gone downhill since engineering became political and already many of the best people have left. The actions of management create a lot of disdain and, just in the last week, were outright discriminatory by breaking the equal employment opportunity act.

      Integrity is a critical asset to an engineer and disrespect is the surest way to lose your best people.

    5. Re:It's tragic... by jabithew · · Score: 1

      I have to say, when I read this

      Bragging used to work back when most people with power in an organization had absolutely no idea about technology

      I thought of this.

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    6. Re:It's tragic... by DoninIN · · Score: 1
      Understand this part...

      You solved the problem the customer presented in 6 minutes? How many hours did it take you to learn to solve this problem? How many minutes did it take you the first time a customer called with a similar problem? You are not really screwing over this customer by charging them an hour for solving this problem. Your job is presumably to make money for your employer after all.

    7. Re:It's tragic... by AlexBirch · · Score: 1

      As Mark Twain sagaciously penned, "Prosperity is the best protector of principle."

    8. Re:It's tragic... by ralphdaugherty · · Score: 1

      Understand this part...

      You solved the problem the customer presented in 6 minutes?

            You need serious work on your reading comprehension. The guy was a consultant who called his boss to ask a question pertaining to the client assignment, a 10 minute call of which about 6 minutes pertained to the client, and the boss billed the client 1 hour for the call, according to the post.

        rd

    9. Re:It's tragic... by Drgnkght · · Score: 1

      Then they weren't really nice and ethical people were they?

  10. Manager's perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm a former programmer, now a manager. Recently, we had to cut some dead wood. I went through all my employees and asked myself, "Would I hire this person?" (I didn't hire any of them in the first place). In many cases, the answer was no. Either they shouldn't have been hired in the first place (previous manager was borderline incompetent), they didn't work out as well as expected, or they had attitude/personal problems that outweighed their contributions.

  11. Nothing can save you! Maybe? by theGhostPony · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Speaking from previous experience, nothing can save you if your management team believes that the cure for all their department's woes can be found overseas. If slashing the bottom line is their primary concern, I don't think there's anything you can do. Short of moving to Cebu or Bangalore.

    Been there. Seen that.

    --
    /. Dissent will not be tolerated. Think like us or perish.
  12. Re:What about... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    ... not caring if you get canned?
    Have you guys forgot that developers are almost always in demand? If it's not working at one place, just find some other place. There are plenty of opportunities.

    What if they want phone references from your last job? I know some people who fake this part, but that's not my style. Also it may work when the market is humming, but tech and/or specialties are cyclical. You don't want to get canned in a down market.

  13. Has anyone noticed... by petrus4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...the horrible degree of corruption implied by just about every post under this article?

    The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work. Rather, it has everything to do with someone else's perception of you, and said perception doesn't necessarily need to have any honest or factual relationship with your work output whatsoever.

    If this is the case, I seriously wonder how much longer contemporary human society can last. Is it really so completely, unsparingly rotten out there these days?

    1. Re:Has anyone noticed... by theGhostPony · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Part of my job involved finding coding mistakes made by our overseas contractors. To put it simply, they were sloppy and didn't seem to care. When I left, the quality issue hadn't been resolved...
      and they were the ones who wound up getting my job!

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work.

      --
      /. Dissent will not be tolerated. Think like us or perish.
    2. Re:Has anyone noticed... by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      answer: a long time. It's always been, and always will be, this way.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    3. Re:Has anyone noticed... by witherstaff · · Score: 1

      Corporations are no different than Politics, it's not what you know but who you know.

    4. Re:Has anyone noticed... by oGMo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nah it just sounds like the advice of someone who sucks at what they do: and by sucks, I mean not constantly working to improve. I've seen this: people don't realize they suck and don't realize that others don't, and therefore assume the only way to get ahead is by politics and dirty tricks... even when it's not. Of course, I'm sure sometimes it is, but if so, it's time to find someplace else to work. Managers firing their resources (especially valuable ones) is more detrimental to them than to their former employees, so they need to learn how to do their job, too. There was a decent article the other day on managing geeks that may be a close miss in some cases, but ties into all of this and "why we do what we do."

      In any case, no, it's not that bad. It may be that bad some places---I haven't seen it---but there are definitely other places. It sounds more like bad stereotyping for a slow weekend story to generate some hits and sound profound. Maybe the author is serious, or maybe he just couldn't come up with better material.

      --

      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    5. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Spewns · · Score: 1

      The root of the evil would be hierarchy and capitalism. Combined, institutions of unjustifiable power and antisocial behavior are born. Things won't "always be this way" (as one of the other replies said) given enough time.

    6. Re:Has anyone noticed... by moore.dustin · · Score: 1

      It is not the case. What you are reading are low to mid-level employees that are describing either: 1) problems with middle management at a larger company, or 2) complete ignorance of technical industries in smaller companies. In these cases, perception is far more important than the actual value you deliver. However, the creme does rise to the top eventually. While the people in this thread are detailing the lessons they have learned themselves, it is important to remember that the lesson itself is being learned, right? These people have now realized how the world works and can act accordingly. Once you persevere from the more plebeian positions into the management/executive level, your body of work is far more important.

    7. Re:Has anyone noticed... by quantaman · · Score: 1

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work. Rather, it has everything to do with someone else's perception of you

      That's true no matter what, a manager, or a customer, can't measure your work directly, only their perception of your work.

      and said perception doesn't necessarily need to have any honest or factual relationship with your work output whatsoever.

      If this is the case, I seriously wonder how much longer contemporary human society can last. Is it really so completely, unsparingly rotten out there these days?

      I'm not sure I got the same impression. I think the basic message is that managers and customers can only make decisions on what they know about your work. If they have an inaccurate impression of your work that's eventually going to bite you and it's your responsibility to make sure they know what you do.

      Of course you can claim it's dishonest to say we'll only play up the good stuff, but are you really going to tell the boss you spend half an hour cruising /. ? Besides, if you over brag it's going to become pretty clear that you don't walk the walk.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    8. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      We've always been at war with Eastasia.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    9. Re:Has anyone noticed... by russotto · · Score: 1

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work. Rather, it has everything to do with someone else's perception of you, and said perception doesn't necessarily need to have any honest or factual relationship with your work output whatsoever.

      That's not corruption; thats the real world. It's the manager's job to find out the reality of the situation, but often enough managers just can't do it. Corruption would be (e.g.) if you kicked back 10% of your pay not to get fired.

      If this is the case, I seriously wonder how much longer contemporary human society can last. Is it really so completely, unsparingly rotten out there these days?

      Yes, but not just "these days". It is as it ever was.

    10. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Kalten · · Score: 1

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work. Rather, it has everything to do with someone else's perception of you, and said perception doesn't necessarily need to have any honest or factual relationship with your work output whatsoever.

      Yep.

      In fact, I was outright told that by a former manager.

    11. Re:Has anyone noticed... by russotto · · Score: 1

      However, the creme does rise to the top eventually.

      That's NOT creme.

      Once you persevere from the more plebeian positions into the management/executive level, your body of work is far more important.

      Which means the only body of work which is important is management work. Which means a developer's body of work is _never_ important. Great news for those of us with no interest in management.

    12. Re:Has anyone noticed... by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      Reality check! People vote for and against people based on "perception" and it's only logical that that will spill over into real life. Perception is very important. Image(a.k.a perception) makes or breaks companies. When you go for an interview, you wear a suit, because perception rules a lot of issues.

    13. Re:Has anyone noticed... by jjohnson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Selection bias. First, no one here is posting saying "I have an extremely fair employer who works closely with me in a very just way to ensure that I do my job well, and in turn I work very hard to please my employer so that my employment is safe and full of opportunity." The people responding here are ones with stories to share about how they got fired, and people who are fired rarely blame themselves or consider it to be justified.

      Second, geeks in general seem prey to misconceptions about how the world should operate in ways that are very logical and rational and (invariably) beneficial to them. Their collisions with real life tend to lead to anecdotes posted on ./ about how much they suffer at the hands of a cruel, cruel world.

      (c.f., any thread mentioning Hans Reiser)

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    14. Re:Has anyone noticed... by mrlibertarian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work.

      Depends on who you're working for. My boss respects me, appreciates the work I do, gives me a lot of freedom, and insulates me and the rest of his team from the politics. And we, in turn, make him look good (at least, that's what he tells us).

      My advice is, if you have a bad boss who doesn't appreciate you, then start looking for a new job. Not only will you improve your own life when you find that new job, but when you leave, your ex-employer may start to realize that your ex-boss is driving the good employees away.

      Also, try to save up a big pile of cash, because it makes every day less stressful. It's easier to say to your bad boss that you're not working the weekend, because you know that even in the worst case scenario (i.e. you lose your job), you can still live comfortably by falling back on your savings. The co-workers I know who complain very emotionally about bad bosses are usually the same ones living paycheck to paycheck. If you have the money to fall back on, then it's much easier to just forget about the politics and what your boss thinks of you. Just think of a bad boss as a stepping stone you're using to further your career. In the long-term, he has zero power over you.

      In summary, there are good bosses and bad bosses out there. It's up to us (the employees) to act as a fitness function. In other words, we must leave the bad bosses and join the good bosses, so that businesses are forced to evolve into better places to work.

    15. Re:Has anyone noticed... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      That's true no matter what, a manager, or a customer, can't measure your work directly, only their perception of your work.

      There are lots of metrics that can be used to measure a developer's work. One bad one is lines of code. A better one is, in a modular system, how many other developers use code that one developer has written. If people would rather use your code (and potentially have to debug it or extend it in some way) rather than roll their own, then that's a good thing. Another is bugs fixed, and the ratio of this to bugs caused (which you can find by looking at bugs fixed by all developers and see who was responsible for originally writing, or modifying, the code that caused the bug). Comment ratio is fairly good, but is easily abused (there's the canonical example of the assembly language programs with likes like 'add r1, 1 ; add 1 to r1'). Ideally, you need some combination of all of these metrics.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    16. Re:Has anyone noticed... by moore.dustin · · Score: 1

      Not so. For yourself, you just need to position yourself under a competent manager. To be quite honest, how important do you expect your body of work to be if you do not increase your responsibility at a company? You can only have your work seen as important if you strive to do important work. This is somewhat at odds with your desire to stay out of management, but I believe there are alternatives. Perhaps consulting for yourself may work? Often times a 'project lead' position is a non-management role with great responsibility.

      We must both admit that at the end of the day, what makes people happy varies a great deal. As we pursue our different ends to happiness, the choices we make will be in accordance with our individual pursuits. What is the answer for me is unlikely to be the answer for you. The best advise that can be applied to everyone is to take charge of your own life and get what you want, do not wait for it to be given.

    17. Re:Has anyone noticed... by misexistentialist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The same employees who complain about being fired despite their productivity would have left at the first offer of a higher salary anyway. It's true that businesses have the advantage over individual workers since they can afford to waste an enormous amount of human capital, but individual workers have their role in the universal corruption too.

    18. Re:Has anyone noticed... by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Is it really so completely, unsparingly rotten out there these days?

      In a word, yes; or at least it is for 99% of us. The only real solution is to become self-made and dependent upon nobody (difficult for a software developer). That way, when you succeed the rewards are yours and yours alone and when you fail you will know who to blame. Wealth gives one the power to do what seems best for oneself or what matters to us individually (including the power to say no). Without that power you are always, at some level, dependent upon the whims of another.

    19. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      Selection bias. First, no one here is posting saying "I have an extremely fair employer who works closely with me in a very just way to ensure that I do my job well, and in turn I work very hard to please my employer so that my employment is safe and full of opportunity."

      I've been with my current employer (relatively small (<1000 employees worldwide), German owned, privately held) for seven and a half years now, and the quote above is a fair approximation of the way I think about my job.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    20. Re:Has anyone noticed... by sco08y · · Score: 1

      You spend 99% of your time not being fired, the 1% when you are or are close to is liable to look pretty bad.

    21. Re:Has anyone noticed... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      If this is the case, I seriously wonder how much longer contemporary human society can last. Is it really so completely, unsparingly rotten out there these days?

      What makes you think this is a new situation?

      This is state of affairs has been the case as long as there has been human society.

    22. Re:Has anyone noticed... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Your metrics are all terrible.

      Code re-use: Unless you're the guy writing the core of your product, your code will not be re-used directly. Sure, another developer might copy-n-paste as a starting point, but you're all doing DIFFERENT THINGS. Thus there will be no way to associate the copied code with the original author.

      Bugs fixed vs bugs caused: I've seen tons of "bugs" where the bug was a new feature that was not required by the old system. The 'fix' was to change part of the old system, but the bug was the new feature author failing to test their code. So now the blame lands on the guy who coded to the old requirements and the credit falls on the new feature author who fixed their own error. This is also a fantastic metric to use if you want to write yourself a huge bonus.

      Comment ratio: ......seriously? This is what you come up with as better than lines of code?

    23. Re:Has anyone noticed... by russotto · · Score: 1

      The same employees who complain about being fired despite their productivity would have left at the first offer of a higher salary anyway.

      Nonsense. Very few people get offers out of the blue, and the people who employ those people know who they are. So all an employer has to do to prevent employees from leaving at the first offer of a higher salary is to keep them happy enough that they're not constantly looking for a new position. If an employee is actively looking, it probably means he's not satisfied with something about his current position.

    24. Re:Has anyone noticed... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work. Rather, it has everything to do with someone else's perception of you, and said perception doesn't necessarily need to have any honest or factual relationship with your work output whatsoever.

      If this is the case, I seriously wonder how much longer contemporary human society can last. Is it really so completely, unsparingly rotten out there these days?

      What are you, a Communist, to be asking questions like that? ~

    25. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Vexorian · · Score: 1

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work. Rather, it has everything to do with someone else's perception of you, and said perception doesn't necessarily need to have any honest or factual relationship with your work output whatsoever.

      You may call it corruption but this is 95% of how life works.

      --

      Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
    26. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      The essential implication seems to be that your longevity in employment has absolutely nothing to do with your actual work. Rather, it has everything to do with someone else's perception of you, and said perception doesn't necessarily need to have any honest or factual relationship with your work output whatsoever.

      Why is this so surprising? If the person signing your paychecks doesn't appreciate the value you are providing him, then that person is right to wonder why he's continuing to pay you. Part of your job is to ensure that your (busy) employer understands the value that you provide. "Bragging" was a bad choice of words. Really, providing a weekly status report (what you worked on, milestones you reached, what you plan to work on next week, and roadblocks that you face) to your manager is more than sufficient.

      If your boss's boss asks your boss, "Hey what does petrus4 do around here, anyway?", you want you boss to have a good answer right on the tip of his tongue. Something along the lines of, "Well, he's been working on X, and he's just completed Y, etc." If your boss's answer is, "Gee, I'm really not sure. Let me go ask him," that isn't good for your career.

      Don't make your boss hunt you down for what you're working on. That's how I read that "bragging" recommendation.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    27. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      Corruption is inherent in that this is a centrally planned and controlled economy, not one based on genuine free enterprise, but rather - depending on your viewpoint - either government-controlled corporations or corporate-controlled governments. Power and violence are used to distort markets, including most importantly the labor market, but also health care, legal services, and most of the professions, for the benefit of some and to the detriment of all others. Since governments and big corporations employ a disproportionate number of workers, most of us end up working for one or the other. These entities produce very little of value, but are able to extort money from those few productive enterprises - mostly smaller businesses - that somehow manage to survive. Since the goal is not to produce products and services that people willingly buy, but rather to destroy competition so people have no choice but to buy theirs, everything that happens is inherently and unalterably corrupt. The only real fix is to restore something resembling freedom, including something resembling free enterprise (regulated to the extent, but only to the extent, necessary to protect life, liberty and property). And since most people are completely ignorant of economics, politics, history, ethics, and law, and derive most of what they think is "knowledge" from institutions controlled by the corrupt corporate-government monolith (e.g,. public "schools," mass media, etc.), very few people even understand the nature of the problem, much less how to solve it. By their ignorance they too become part of this corruption. Frankly, we all do. It is a society-wide problem and I do not honestly see any solution besides the one that is currently under way, namely, that our society is being replaced as the dominant world power by others that are less corrupt, most notably and ironically China.

    28. Re:Has anyone noticed... by m509272 · · Score: 1

      Absolutely untrue. Most people want to avoid change. You have to factor many things in not just higher salary. Commute, hours, family, debt, environment (co-workers, office space, office location). Are there people like this, definitely.

      Where do I see it the most. Outsourcing companies. People making say 30K will leave tomorrow for 33-35K because 1) that's a huge % difference; 2) the new commute might be going to a different floor in the same building; 3) the demand is there and this is the norm. Who's suffering for this, the client. You end up with a revolving door of developers where their experience is nearly zero, have no prior knowledge of the company they're going to do the work for, etc. You could easily end up with a group of people working on something for 6 months or a year, say you need a couple of more enhancements and you have an entirely new team of people and you're back to square one.

      Where else, middle to upper management where generic manager A convinces some other company that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread, they hire him for a lot more money and after 2 years or less he's gone from your place and repeating the cycle somewhere else. Of course, after they've left your company realizes what a dolt he/she was and the cleaning up the mess begins. I know a guy that does this. He must start planning his departure a little after a year or 18 months after his arrival.

    29. Re:Has anyone noticed... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Keeping your job at most places has a lot more to do with how well other people like you than your performance.

      Your ability to get exciting work, move up the chain, gain responsibility, and get training is based on your competence.

      Subtly over a few years, one person is leader of tech, going to las vegas for conferences and another is supporting legacy applications at 6am.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  14. I'm a manager... by erikharrison · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The vast majority of my job in a management capacity is to translate from geek to suit and back again. The guy who owns my company, my direct boss, is not technically minded. The man has fantastic ideas, but couldn't write a lick of code or install a server to save his life.

    The company is lucky to have someone like me. Many do not. And in the absence of an interpreter, you bet your ass that closing a lot of tickets in the bug tracker will mean dick when it comes to convincing your boss who doesn't read the bug tracker to not fire you. And frankly, pulling out the metrics to show that you're valuable is exactly the kind of strategic bragging you're arguing against.

    You can fire a developer who is leading in resolutions and completed requirements. It happens every day. The job is not just to make sure that you're working your butt off, but that your boss knows it. Help them to make informed decisions. It may suck, but you know what, that's life.

    1. Re:I'm a manager... by syousef · · Score: 1

      The job is not just to make sure that you're working your butt off, but that your boss knows it. Help them to make informed decisions. It may suck, but you know what, that's life.

      That's not life. That's having a poor manager. The manager's job is to track what his or her staff are doing, and modify what they do to best suit the company's goals. How do you do that when you don't even know what your staff are doing right now?

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  15. Perhaps in the US... by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    ...but otherwise you (sic) manager can fire you just because he or she feels like it.

    Perhaps in the US this is true but elsewhere many countries have laws that prevent this. They can choose not to renew your contract but otherwise they can only fire you for a valid reasons, like failure to do your job, company downsizing etc. If you sack them without a valid reason you can get sued for unfair dismissal.

    1. Re:Perhaps in the US... by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

      Not in UK either

      Most certainly there is job protection in the UK. In fact there is arguably far too much job protection. To fire someone for incompetence you are required to give them written notice multiple times before you can actually fire them. The only exception is contract work where you can always opt to not renew the contract. This is how they killed academic tenure in the UK.

  16. Re:This article doesn't help me by erikharrison · · Score: 1

    1) To the person who makes the hiring decision, make it clear that the person sucks up more money than they make the company. Make it a pure business decision.

    2) Make it easy - very few people enjoy firing people. It is not only confrontational, but it often means admitting you were wrong in hiring in the first place. Give your boss as much of an emotional out as possible.

    3) Have the meeting where you solidly and without malice make your case. If your boss isn't going to fire the guy right then and there, but until X, Y, or Z are completed then your boss is going to pussy out. Institutional inertia will set in. Say "I appreciate that you're in a tight spot with this project. What can we do to make this work." When it doesn't work, have a follow up meeting that puts the decision not to fire back in your bosses line of sight, and show that, indeed, it's continuing to not work out. Do NOT say "I told you so." You'll just make your boss resistant.

    4) Once the problematic developer is gone, have a follow up discussion that shows it was the right call. Again, don't say I told you so. Say "Thanks for taking care of that. I know it was tough, but it's really working out"

    Your job is to make your boss look good by kicking this person to the curb. You're approaching your boss and assisting them in making an informed decision.

    Of course, if you're just trying to get someone fired out of spite, that's trickier.

  17. For US employees only? by stimpleton · · Score: 4, Informative

    Good article generally and good advice. But for a US audience.

    "For those who donâ(TM)t see it coming".....here in New Zealand would earn the employer a death sentence in Employment court (well, a large settlement anyway).

    NZ law states broadly 2 key points: That there is a relationship of good faith between employer and employee, and that both parties act in a fair way.

    examples from both sides:

    For the employer:
    - Theft by an employee is grounds is grounds for instant dismissal
    - A drop in income that requires a restructuring process when some employees might be shed.

    For the employee:
    - A drop of productivity can be due to various reasons. The employer must determine what those reason are. And instigate a prodedure policy known by both parties. The No.1 rule is "no surprises" to the employee.
    - Numerous instances of Case Law indicate the employer must act to prove in a fair way they are right(they are the ones with the resources). For example , allowing one employee to arrive late but then enforce it on another first time late person would show lack of process and earn punitive penalties in employment court.

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
    1. Re:For US employees only? by Radio_active_cgb · · Score: 1

      I wonder if the employer is responsible to determining that the employee has a medical condition that is impacting their work?

      My output had been suffering for quite some time (months? years?), but I was unable to determine why. I had the will, motivation, and skills, but I simply was no longer up to the task. Working harder simply wasn't cutting it. Something in my life I couldn't see was impacting my work.

      That turned out to be sleep apnea (started getting treatment for that 25 days before they let me go), but it could be any medical condition.

    2. Re:For US employees only? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      The point of the article is that geeks tend to bury their heads in the code and don't notice the writing on the walls.

      In US companies of any decent size, if the employee isn't doing anything illegal, he's going to be put on a Performance Improvement Plan, where he will specifically be told what his deficiencies are, what specifically he needs to accomplish to get off of PIP, and by when. If the goals of the PIP aren't met by the deadline set in the PIP, he will be terminated for cause.

      Geeks tend to have an overinflated sense of self and don't think they will ever actually be fired, PIP or not. Then they find out they are wrong and bitch about it.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    3. Re:For US employees only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And this PC bollocks is why its a nightmare running any kind of small software shop here in NZ. Make one bad hire and you're considered to be responsible for that individual until they die - or decide to leave you of their own accord.

      The government recently changed the law to allow a three month trial period (OMG! RADICAL!!) but even then, only when both parties opt in. And no, you cannot have a four month or more trial, even if both parties agree.

      Thinking of avoiding it by using contractors? For get that too - if you hire someone on a short term contract, and they can make a case that really its a longer term job (like the project doesn't get finished) - then they can make a string case that really, they're not a contractor - they're an employee!

      This BS is why you see a lot of faux redundancies in NZ, and why you'll seldom hear anyone get realistic information about where they're doing badly - because by giving that, the employer might be perceived to be starting down the "performance management" road, thus cutting off their option to make the person redundant later.

      Yeah I have huge sympathy for anyone who gets axed. But if you're trying to run a company, just imagine how hard it is to prove "poor performance" or the like in court when the law is designed to help people working in shearing sheds and dairy factories. If you're the employer - you're going down.

  18. Why some developers get fired by caywen · · Score: 1

    Some developers get fired because:

    - Heads: They are too pedantic about development practices in an organization focused on shorter term results.
    - Tails: They are too focused on shorter term results in an organization focused on pedantic engineering.
    - Uneven performance - productivity that tends to spike around review time but lag in the between months. Many managers aren't naive about this.
    - Embattling the lead developer. Some developers take a personal disliking to the lead for whatever reason, and take a position of disagreeing with every decision very loudly.

  19. Getting fired is so common these days by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

    sometimes you do nothing at all that gets you fired. Many times I was laid off because the company wasn't earning enough money and the companies I worked for would fire IT staff first. Usually with a 90% turn around in 4 years.

    Last two programming jobs I had I got fired because I ran up health insurance rates and got sick too much. Turns out the stress of working too hard gave me high blood pressure and other illnesses and I even developed schizoaffective disorder. When management learned about my illnesses they tried to get me to quit, and failing that had fired me for being too sick and having too many sick days, etc. Even if I had doctor's notes and was in a hospital waiting for my blood pressure to go back to normal before they could release me, my sick days got counted against me. So I got fired for being too sick, and eventually ended up on disability being too sick to work. Had I continued working, I'd be dead or in a nursing home for being so sick.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
    1. Re:Getting fired is so common these days by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

      I couldn't take a court case, I'd get so sick I'd die of a heart attack or stroke.

      One company is a law firm in my area, another is a small business with under 15 employees. The law firm would keep my lawyers busy until I couldn't afford the legal fees and drop the case. The small business is immune to the employment laws for being so small.

      Also if I sued, it would be the end of my career. Who'd want to hire me after I sued former employers, potential employers would fear that I would sue them as well and then not hire me and give a bogus reason that I didn't get hired.

      --
      Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  20. results by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

    If your boss likes you, he will set easy goals. If he doesn't like you, he will set unrealistic goals. You can be the hardest worker in the place, but getting "results" is an arbitrary and meaningless phrase, entirely dictated by the whims of your manager.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:results by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If your boss likes you, he will set easy goals. If he doesn't like you, he will set unrealistic goals

      A former co-worker complained to me that management had it in for him, and that they were setting unrealistic goals for a project he was working on. When he was fired, I inherited that particular project.

      This former co-worker was a third-level developer (meaning: his past work experience made his salary bigger than mine). I'm an entry-level developer. He spent around six months on the project, and in the end had very little to show for it. I spent just over a month on it, and duplicated most of his work but on a larger scale (he had done it The Wrong Way, of course).

      Everyone involved is surprised at the rate I'm getting results. But really, the project just isn't that difficult; my former co-worker just had very little idea how to do it, and apparently reading any of the dozens of books written on the subject was not among his list of things to do. (That's all I did - I read a book on the subject, then started implementing things based on the guidelines given in the book.)

      In other words, the goals set by management were only unrealistic to him because he wasn't good enough at his job to meet them. (He was fired for a reason, after all.)

  21. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I am simply amazed at the level of vitriol and naivete displayed in these posts. The article basically boils down to "you are your own best advocate." Of course management's perception of your performance is what keeps you employed when the economy is tough. Duh. The article says to back up your arrogance with facts and not to let your own perception of your value lull you into a false sense of security. Doesn't seem very evil or unethical to me!

  22. the key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    the key to not being fired is to have the biggest penis in the company. it solves almost all problems. just whip it out during the next meeting and people will leave you alone. i see it happen all the time. the problem is, i work in the porn industry.

    1. Re:the key by Kashgarinn · · Score: 1

      Why is working in the porn industry a problem? Unless your size isn't, ehem.. up to standards?

  23. Re:Write safe code by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    If you always just write safe code then what can really happen to you right.

    You have obviously never met a PHB on crack in the middle of the night. (Its worse than drinking Dr Pepper)

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  24. Re:People love me by NewbieProgrammerMan · · Score: 1

    I can't tell if you were going for humor or relating your actual behavior, but I can see a person with this attitude doing very well as a contractor to large US businesses, even if they really can't get shit done.

    --
    [b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
  25. getting fired vs laid off by josepha48 · · Score: 3, Informative
    I could see those reasons for firing someone. If you don't get along with your boss then you are likely to get fired.

    My question is why do good developers, that are talented get laid off?

    --

    Only 'flamers' flame!
    Does slashdot hate my posts?

    1. Re:getting fired vs laid off by Totenglocke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My question is why do good developers, that are talented get laid off?

      Because they earn more money. This goes double for if they have lots of experience. I know someone who's almost 60 and they kept incompetent people in the department but laid him off (when the last 3 months before he was laid off he was working 14 hour days to make up all the work that wasn't being done by the others in the same department) because he made too much money.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    2. Re:getting fired vs laid off by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      I could see those reasons for firing someone. If you don't get along with your boss then you are likely to get fired.

      My question is why do good developers, that are talented get laid off?

      Because many good developers don't understand that there is a difference between "promoting their ideas" and "insubordination".

      If you've got this great idea and you step on a lot of toes promoting it (going over people heads, ignoring others' valid objections (sure, your idea may be better, but if we use it, we'll never make our deadlines and we'll all look bad), or doing other things that make you difficult to work with), you probably are going to find yourself getting fired a lot.

      In short, good developers don't get fired for being good developers--they get fired for acting unprofessionally.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    3. Re:getting fired vs laid off by nervouscat · · Score: 1

      I can relate to that.

      I worked for a startup. For the first nine months I was getting excellent feedback from the manager who hired me. Then there was a shakeup in management (company was in trouble) and my manager was forced out of the company. The new manager had very high standards and told us we were going to work "with our balls against the wall." My assignments changed as well as my job responsibilities and I have to learn different work quickly. I had a learning curve and could not fix bugs as fast as people who were junior to me (they were more familiar with this particular app than me and fix bugs all the time). I started to hate my job and hate my boss and began looking around for another job. Apparently, my boss had the same idea. I saw a job ad from my employer on Monster.com that had the same job description as mine, but at time I didn't realize he was looking to hiring someone to replace me. Three months passed and I got my review. It was far worse than I expected - I was shocked. Then two weeks later I was fired. The next day I heard my replacement started. I filed for my unemployment claim and my company challenged it at a hearing. At the hearing my boss wrote a written statement saying how I was not working up to "senior level" citing the lower number of bugs fixed compared to the junior programmers. I still got the unemployment!

      Sometimes no matter what you do - especially if you are in a high pressure startup environment with a bad boss that is determined to get rid of no matter what - you're still a dead man walking. I still don't think taking these steps described in the article could have saved my job. I was never put on probation and was never given a chance to improve. The whole experience of being fired and having my ex-boss fight to keep me from getting unemployment benefits was traumatic. It took several more successful jobs since then to regain my confidence and realize that I really don't suck as a programmer. A few years after I was fired, the company went bankrupt and my boss eventually lost his job. What goes around comes around.

    4. Re:getting fired vs laid off by josepha48 · · Score: 1

      -they get fired for acting unprofessionally.

      I think sometimes they act unprofessionally because many companies do not have professional development internally and often the environment they are in is unprofessional. I used to work with a guy that LOVED to call people names when someone came to his cube. He would literally harass you when you came into the cube. He did not get laid off because they think of him as 'the only one that can do the job'. Plain and simple, I think if your boss does not like you, your screwed no matter what. My boss did not like me so I got laid off with others he did not like. Sometimes managers just want yes people and don't want people to 'promote any idea'. It didn't matter how the idea was promoted, it was that you promoted the idea.

      --

      Only 'flamers' flame!
      Does slashdot hate my posts?

    5. Re:getting fired vs laid off by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Well, there are all kinds of managers in the world, so no rule will apply in every last case. If you have a sociopath for a boss, all bets are off.

      Most rational managers like to look good, and if they have a direct report whose ideas always seem to make them look good, they tend to listen (and give credit where credit is due, etc.)

      Having a good manager who is well-respected in your company is crucial to your career development. You need someone who can and will advocate for you.

      I'll give you an example of this. At my first job out of college, I got put on a death march of a project. The VP in charge of that project was well-respected in the firm, and the project lead was well-respected by the VP.

      Typically promotions at that firm happened after 2-3 years for new grads, but the nature of the project gave me the opportunity to take on duties beyond my job title, so I spoke with the project lead about whether or not he felt it would be appropriate for me to seek an early promotion. He felt that I was definitely ready, but that it would be a tough sell given my short tenure with the firm.

      At the team dinner recognizing the project's delivery, the VP thanked everyone for going above and beyond, and said if there was anything he could do for any one of us to let him know. The next morning, I emailed him to request his support for my promotion. Sure, he confirmed with the project lead first that I wasn't off my rocker, but once I had him in my corner, it was a done deal. I got that promotion.

      I survived about 4 or 5 rounds of layoffs too, before I left to found my own company. Having well-respected people like you is important, and the best way to get them to like you is to make them look good.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  26. Re:My solution to /fired. - Follow the money by Radio_active_cgb · · Score: 1

    So the solution is to put your effort where the money is....

    Hmm. That sounds a lot like the way most businesses tend to be run.

    The projects that are expected to make the most money also get the most resources. The only time this takes a second seat is when lots of money is likely to be lost if a contract or customer is lost due to poor performance. Any resources that don't support these goals or aren't performing as needed should be re-evaluated.

    I was "re-evaluated" from my last job, and it could eventually be traced back to this.

  27. Re:What about... by russotto · · Score: 1

    What if they want phone references from your last job?

    A couple of prepaid cellphones and some voice-acting lessons?

  28. Err by OpenSourced · · Score: 1

    I'm one of the mediocre colleagues, you insensitive clod!

    --
    Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
  29. Tale of a former "star" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I too was the "star" of my team, and probably the last person that most people in my former company thought would be let go. However, my company was hit especially hard by the recent economic downturn, and as a result, I believe that I was seen as more a luxury by upper management rather than a necessity. So with that, I was laid off.

    It's been about 5 months now, and looking back I've often reflected on whether or not there was anything I could have done to change how events unfolded, and yes, there are a couple of things that I could have acted on, but it's tough to be a backstabber and that's pretty much what I would have had to resort to.

    Since then, I've also realized a few other things:

    (1) Staying in one company and being the "star" there can quickly cause a person (me) to over-estimate their worth.

    (2) In my case, working for a single employer was causing me to be lazy with regards to networking and getting myself "out there" and as a result, 5 years worth of incredibly hard work for my one company was really pretty worthless when it came to social currency to land myself my next position.

    (3) I am more thankful than ever that my parents instilled in me the art of saving my money. It turned what could have been an incredibly stressful and damaging situation into merely a nuisance and bump in the road. Nothing can quite provide comfort like having a nice pile stashed away for rainy days like getting laid off.

    Happily, since then I've contracted for a few companies, and also done some freelancing, both of which have allowed me to really expand my networking efforts, as well as learn a lot of new technologies/methods/etc.. It's really gratifying to know that I have a lot more control over my own success and career, and whether I work 40 or 80 hours per week, my pay won't always stay the same (for better or worse).

    Will I ever work for someone else again full-time as a W2? I'm not sure, right now I'm enjoying being more of a free agent and the new experiences it has provided. I'd really like to start my own company, as I think that would really be a lot of fun and a great challenge. So we'll see.

  30. Software from India?! by OrangeTide · · Score: 1, Informative

    India is way too expensive. How you can possibly compete by making software in India? You should really consider moving development to east Asia.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Software from India?! by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      hehe India is east asia. But hey, having fun with some outsourced devs in ShenZen who only really report to chinese devs. The situation is kind of fucked up, but my company is big out outsourcing, so fuck them.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    2. Re:Software from India?! by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      It's considered South Asia. Even though I'm American, I can work out where India is on a map.

      Plenty of dev going on, especially for consumer electronics software, in Shenzhen and Shanghai (two major tech hubs in China). I've only personally been to Shenzhen, it's a small city but a pretty nice place in my opinion. Perhaps I should just move there and work for cheap outsourced labor wages.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    3. Re:Software from India?! by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      India is way too expensive. How you can possibly compete by making software in India? You should really consider moving development to east Asia.

      It's interesting to read in the Indian English-speaking newspapers how people are bemoaning the problem of "their" industry being outsourced to cheaper countries (China and Malaysia, for example). The quality won't be as good, they say, and the communications pathways are too long.

      Hands up, those of you who think this sounds ironically familiar.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    4. Re:Software from India?! by quanticle · · Score: 1

      I think you're the one who needs the map. India is pretty far east. West Asia (or the 'Near East') is Turkey. The 'Middle East" is Iran (Persia), Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. and the Far East is India, China Japan and the rest.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    5. Re:Software from India?! by TheLink · · Score: 1

      No. Google it. India is in South Asia:

      http://www.mapsofworld.com/south-asia-political-map.htm
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia

      And "Middle East" is not the same as Central Asia.

      --
    6. Re:Software from India?! by Clairvoyant · · Score: 1

      We're nearly there!

      West Asia == Middle East. Middle east is just a European oriented name for practically the same region. And Turkey is just a country, not a whole continent you know. Turkey is as much WEST Asia as you can get; it's the most western country of those in West Asia. Then there is South Asia (to which India belongs) and East Asia (which is West for Americans).

      Then there is Northern, Central, Southwestern and Southeastern Asia to make things even more complicated.
      Just take a look at this for a nice map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_asia

    7. Re:Software from India?! by mcvos · · Score: 1

      India is South Asia. Vietnam is South-East Asia. China and Japan are East Asia. Central Asia is Afghanistans and stuff in that area. West Asia (though rarely called that) is the Middle East. North Asia is Siberia.

    8. Re:Software from India?! by kelnos · · Score: 1

      Got any links to online sources? I could use a good laugh to pass around at the office...

      --
      Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
    9. Re:Software from India?! by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Got any links to online sources? I could use a good laugh to pass around at the office...

      The original article that gave me that chuckle is long buried I fear, but it's not alone. I like this one, for example, out of New Delhi:

      "China has the potential but India has the edge" says Nasscom Vice-President, Ameet Nivsarkar. He adds: "Clients of Indian outsourcing vendors simply expect more out of the services. This has led Indian vendors to set up base in places like China."

      link here

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  31. Been Fired once, "layed off" once.... by paulsnx2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I got laid off once when the old boss died, and the new boss thought I was too tight with the old "administration". After I was gone, the lay offs were done. Go figure.

    Later I got fired from Microsoft. Microsoft's corporate culture is about a grading curve. No matter how good your team is, no matter how successful they are, some get "A"s, some "C"s, some "D"s, and some Fail. You get an "A" and (at the time) you could be rich beyond your dreams. You fail, and you are asked to leave.

    This makes life at work brutal, because helping others be productive doesn't get you a great grade unless you can clearly claim credit. Furthermore, making use of someone else's advances in an obvious way is going to count for them, so you don't do it. Bottom line, it makes a very productive environment cause deadwood gets tossed. But if you survive a few years, you do so because you can develop an "in" with those that grade you, and you increasingly get grades partly (but almost never solely) because of who likes you.

    The bottom line is that your first year is absolutely critical. You are almost never going to get an "A" cause you don't have the "In"s for that. But you can't fall down in visibility or you are toast.

    Now it happened that my Dad died the first year I was working there. It was a long and drawn out process with cancer. I took several trips during the year to be with him when things got bad. And for the funeral. And I found it tough to talk to people. Then I had a meeting with my group leader, a guy who laughed nearly constantly but paradoxically had no sense of humor what so ever. We met in a conference room outside the doors of the building, and I was told to simply leave. My stuff would be sent to me.

    After being tossed out the door, the project lead told me, "My dad died, and it didn't hurt my productivity."

    The bottom line is that I MIGHT have avoided this had I spent more time talking up and down the chain of command about what I was going through. I could have taken leave until I had my head back together. The environment made it tough to get any support from people around me at work, but I might have worked harder at that. But it is also possible that some situations just are not going to be within your ability to manage.

    1. Re:Been Fired once, "layed off" once.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I work in a place like this. Everyone gets ranked - someone has to be on top and someone has to be on the bottom. In an organization of reasonably competent people, higher ranking hinges on who knows you - especially other managers in the umbrella departments. Being helpful to your peers only helps as much as it raises your visibility to management - and you better make sure that management knows you're providing help.

      While there is a bitter, cynical side of this coin - it's all politics. The other side is that communication matters. If no one (in management) knows what you've done, you haven't done it. So make sure you are "bragging" and making those above you and diagonal from you know about the good work you've done. It does help to do actual good work.

    2. Re:Been Fired once, "layed off" once.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      man, that really sucks. No one's mentioned this that I've seen, but if MS had an employees' union, shit like this could not happen. No indiscriminate firing based on the whimsy of managers, but rather a clear process for warning people, giving them a chance to improve, etc.

      Unions make the whole layoff situation much better too -- there's clear system (last in, first out, eg) that makes it easy to anticipate when your number is up.

    3. Re:Been Fired once, "layed off" once.... by hab136 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Furthermore, making use of someone else's advances in an obvious way is going to count for them, so you don't do it.

      Wow, this would go a long way to explaining why different products from Microsoft refuse to reuse technology from other parts (sometimes even within the same product).

    4. Re:Been Fired once, "layed off" once.... by mrbester · · Score: 2, Interesting

      After being tossed out the door, the project lead told me, "My dad died, and it didn't hurt my productivity."

      And I hope you came back with something similar to "Unlike you, you cunt, I loved my dad." After all, what are they going to do? Fire you?

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    5. Re:Been Fired once, "layed off" once.... by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      And also explains why they are slowly self-destructing.

  32. Employee evalutions??? What universe???? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    "Jesus freaking Christ, can't companies do employee evaluations at all?"

    Geez, here in America we're in a neverending depression, and that's the question uppermost in your mind (assuming it's about Corporate America?????).

  33. Show UI stuff by chrysalis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In my experience, bosses want to see things. Working user interfaces. They want to be able to play with products as soon as possible.

    Bad strategy:
    - Choose the best tools for the job even if this is not one the company used for previous projects
    - Write solid, reliable, secure, clean, flexible, scalable, optimized and tested foundations.
    - Tell your boss that you spent 80% of the time allowed to the project writing quality code, but there's nothing to look at yet.
    - Sequentially and methodically write every part of the project, with a crappy UI just for testing
    - Polish the UI, replace images with nice-looking ones
    - Profit?

    Rewarding strategy:
    - Stick with the same old tools: no need to justify nor to demonstrate anything.
    - Write crappy foundations. Hard-code data as much as possible. You just need to get a working test case.
    - Work on the UI. Make it look cool even if it barely works. Add every possible button as soon as possible, even if they don't trigger any action. Looking at the interface is the way most people will judge the completion of the project.
    - Connect the UI to the crappy foundations. You can easily show how much progress you did on the project.
    - Rewrite the foundations so that they can deal with real data.
    - The project is ready for production, you made the deadline.
    - Plugging security holes, rewriting everything so that it can handle the real load, and fixing bugs will be dealt with after the deadline.
    - Who cares about the quality of the code ? It's closed source anyway.

    --
    {{.sig}}
    1. Re:Show UI stuff by sammyF70 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Again no modpoints when I need them. You're absolutely right.

      In the same vein, I remember something from a previous workplace. I wrote a very nifty piece of software, technically some of the best stuff I ever did for that company, asked my boss to come around so that he could take a look. His only remark, after I was "I like the look of it, but could you make the green a shade more yellowish? then it would be really great". I was quite pissed off for the rest of the day somehow

      Non-IT people generally really don't care about how code works (or even if it work at all), what matters is that they have something shiny to look at.

      --
      "DRM is like the Ford Pinto: it's a smooth ride, right up the point at which it explodes and ruins your day."-C.Doctorow
    2. Re:Show UI stuff by urbanRealist · · Score: 1

      Your strategy is the perfect way to maximize your income if you are jumping from company to company. I replaced a guy that worked like this. If you are working on not getting fired, it is a bad strategy because code quality is vital when it comes to application stability. No one likes an application that is constantly crashing.

      --
      I've seen a lot of things, but I've never been a witness.
    3. Re:Show UI stuff by weicco · · Score: 1

      A know a guy whose job was to build a hefty component library using PHP. He did good work and got the actual library working. Now enter the boss.

      She (yes, she) wanted to see if it works. Well, it's a library so he didn't write any fancy web pages to test it, just some command line scripts which produced things like FOO, BAR, BAZ, KABOOM etc. etc. You can probably imagine boss'es expression when she saw black screen full of lines like that ;)

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
    4. Re:Show UI stuff by weicco · · Score: 1

      It took me couple of hours but I finally found it! http://dilbert.com/fast/2000-02-24/

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
    5. Re:Show UI stuff by Xordin · · Score: 1

      And guess what, they're right. If you show UI early on, people get a better mental image of where you are going. You can then respond to feedback early in the development cycle, which is priceless.

      The strategy you ironically list as "unrewarding" results in an excellent code base that doesn't solve anyone's problem.

    6. Re:Show UI stuff by chrysalis · · Score: 1

      Ehm, "where you are going" is usually defined _before_ you start programming. It's called specifications.

      --
      {{.sig}}
    7. Re:Show UI stuff by m509272 · · Score: 1

      Pretty close. However, if you can bring a new tool in and quickly and clearly demonstrate the advantages of this tool you stand a chance. Did it with Cold Fusion. Demonstrated how quickly one can knock out a website versus the excruciating Java development environment that was set up. It became something of a grassroots development environment in the company and dozens of apps are written in it. They tried to get it out because they only wanted to use Weblogic but fortunately CF was rewritten to run in Weblogic and other app engines and that kept it in here.

      Your first sentence is quite accurate though. Things that can be touchy feely as soon as possible always impress. Add real data into it and they'll be putty in your hands. Beware! As soon as they see something seemingly nearly working they'll expect it yesterday so a realistic timeframe needs to be presented in advance of showing off anything.

    8. Re:Show UI stuff by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      A picture is worth a thousand words .....

    9. Re:Show UI stuff by mawe · · Score: 1

      Dead-on. Just experienced this yesterday. Had all the code ready for a project but the UI was rather simple. He was like "that's nothing". The review would've been more successful if I had spend half the day on a shiny interface mockup and pasted a jpeg into the app. I'm sure he wouldn't even have noticed it.

      --
      I'm afraid Mary is dead.
  34. Fortunately... by BigBadBus · · Score: 1
  35. Counter-tactics by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Unfortunately, the document neglects to mention bad management counter-tactics. I just watched an engineer get guided away from everything productive he did into a "primary focus" of a project to re-write the manager's old project, saw the manager completely ruin the work because it wasn't written exactly the way the manager had done it (which was dangerous stuff, and the point of the project), and block the engineer from closing any other work orders until the primary project was done. The result was that it _killed_ the engineer's productivity on all those little pie charts and project ticket reports, and got him "encouraged to resign". And it kept around that old piece of dirty garbage code, which only that manager knows how to maintain.

    I'd love to go directly after the manager for this, but it's hard. The manager knows how to play the paperwork game and the blame game and I'm not even from his company. It won't help the engineer much: I've written him recommendations and am trying to guide him to better work, but the field is still not hiring much.

  36. Toxic mindset. by Coriolis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Disclaimer: I am a lead dev/team leader.

    The first thing that struck me about that article was that I had (blissfully) forgotten how horrible, corrupt and incompetent a lot of companies out there are. I agree with the overall thrust of his article, although I'd phrase it as "Be good at what you do, be proud of what you achieve, and act accordingly". That said, I just want to take a few points from the article. This guy has been working in some toxic environments, and it's done bad things to his world view.

    Why wouldn't you see this one coming? Well, you might be thinking the missed deadlines are not your fault. Your excuses may include "the design was bad" or "the deadlines are not realistic" or "they are making me code in Java and I am a .NET expert." Guess what? Excuses don't matter. Results matter.

    • If the design was bad, well, I'm the Lead, so I had approval on the design, and I had to sell it to the stakeholders, and convince myself that it was possible with the available resources. If it wasn't, that was my fault, and I shouldn't be trying to blame them for it.
    • In a project with a scheduled deadline and fixed scope (i.e., non-agile), if you don't have historical information to work from, the only sensible way to estimate the effort is to ask the developers who are going to implement it. If I didn't ask them, and set deadlines willy-nilly, and then they couldn't meet them because I missed a whole chunk of complexity out, then that was my fault, and I shouldn't be trying to blame them for it. (The corollary being that, if I did ask them and they didn't meet their own estimates, you bet they've got some talking to do, because I'm about to have a very painful meeting...)
    • I wouldn't ask a French translator to translate Italian for me and bitch about it if they were slow ("Hey, they both have Latin roots..."). Similarly, if I ask you to do something that I know you've got a learning curve on, and I don't make space for that in the project, and don't give you the assistance you need to learn it, guess what...yep, that's my fault. It's only your fault if you didn't get off your ass and learn it (although I do expect you to be able to learn quickly—you're supposed to be a professional developer, after all.)

    The job of the manager is to make sure that you're doing your best possible work, and to make sure that all impediments to that are removed. It is not to make ludicrous promises and then blame you when they can't be delivered. If you find yourself working under such a waste of space, move as soon as is practical. If you are such a manager, please consider growing some stones and taking the responsibility you're being paid to take.

    You have to promote your work. Yes, I mean brag.

    That might work in the U.S.A. Good luck with that in, say, New Zealand.

    If you are doing good work, then you'll receive kudos when the software is implemented. And if the implementation is not a success? This is tricky because you don't want to play the blame game in public.

    The "in public" is very telling. You don't want to play the blame game at all.

    Seriously, people. If you're a good developer, for pity's sake don't work in companies like this. They're rotting your mind.

    --
    Rgasuya aata! : I have been coding Perl and cannot tell where my fingers are now!
    1. Re:Toxic mindset. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      As much as I'd like to agree, often what you want is to create a small island in the toxic sea. The company may suck but your work, when you're so reasonably left alone to do work may be good, the benefits might be good, the commute can be good and so on. Someone once said it as "The pasture isn't greener on the other side, only the brown spots are in different places". I'm not saying you should go out there as the next Machiavelli, but understanding a little corporate self-defense can make a lot more workplaces acceptable to work at and prevent you getting laid off from. In every big organization I've been at, there sometimes comes crap from the top and the managers all down the chain have to spread it around. A good manager will shield you from most of it, but it always pays to make sure he knows you're not the one to throw the rest at.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Toxic mindset. by khchung · · Score: 1

      This is the most insightful comment in the whole thread!

      I agree completely, don't waste your time working in companies where you need these tricks, life is just too short. Look for a way out asap.

      --
      Oliver.
    3. Re:Toxic mindset. by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      that was my fault, and I shouldn't be trying to blame them for it

      Assume for a moment you're a complete jerk who doesn't care who you throw under a bus in order to further your own career. Your fault or not, I can guarantee you that as a jerk team lead you're going to find some guy on your team to pin the problem on to avoid having the black mark on your record.

      Now, assume that you aren't a complete jerk, but you work for a complete jerk. Now when something goes wrong, he's going to throw you under a bus unless you can find someone else to throw under a bus. In that sort of environment, it's very easy for a middle manager to blame one of the team members to protect himself and the rest of the team. And of course, this iterative step can be applied as many times as necessary up and down the chain of command, where a jerk on any level from CEO down to team lead can cause this to happen. This isn't a mere hypothetical. A lot of CEOs are jerks, and got to where they are today by throwing their reports under a bus.

      A story to give you an idea: New programmer just started a job at a large insurance company. He had been told to make an adjustment to a report that wound up on the CEOs desk. The adjustment he had been told to make was wrong. Word came down from the CEO - "fire him". Word came back up - he had been on the job 2 weeks and the problem wasn't his fault. Word came down from the CEO - "fire him, or I will find someone who will".

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    4. Re:Toxic mindset. by Coriolis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'll give you that. But none of the steps he described in the article will actually protect you from that kind of jerk. He's going to do it to you regardless. Be smart enough to realise it, and get out before he does.

      The only way to protect yourself from a jerk that is to be a jerk. I made the decision to not be a jerk, and it hasn't got me fired yet ;)

      --
      Rgasuya aata! : I have been coding Perl and cannot tell where my fingers are now!
    5. Re:Toxic mindset. by Coriolis · · Score: 1

      sigh. "from a jerk like that". I feel this is appropriate at this moment.

      --
      Rgasuya aata! : I have been coding Perl and cannot tell where my fingers are now!
  37. Huh? by ThePhilips · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The developer who has all the talent in the world, but lacks either motivation or drive to perform up to expectations. As a manager, I expect to be able to motivate team members with money, career advancement, cool projects or even intangibles such as increased work schedule flexibility.

    LOL. This is a classical B.S. Yes, often direct (line) managers wants to motivate developers. But it still has to be approved by higher management. And this is where it goes terribly wrong.

    It either takes ages to see results or something unasked and unwanted gets done. Or worse: it gets done, but then used to motivate somebody else.

    But sometimes, the rewards just donâ(TM)t motivate.
    The result is a developer who isnâ(TM)t accountable. They consistently are late to work and meetings. They donâ(TM)t adhere to standards. Theyâ(TM)re simply complacent.

    Yep. That's me. E.g. i was dragged into three weeks of meeting about architectural problem I discovered - and I had to open every one of them by asking what the meeting is about and tens time repeating them that I have solved the problem week(s) ago. But the wheels just can't stop... They finally found something worth discussing and simply can't pass on the chance.

    Remind me again how that supposed to motivate me?

    Or performance reviews. They keep asking what I might be interesting working in future. And the whole list of things I'm interested in gets consistently shot down with "we do not do that" or "C*O will not approve." Also very motivating. Even trivial things gets shot down - because most managers are afraid to do anything on their own and have to get a nod from above for every minor thing. And obviously all the trivial things are too small to be discussed with higher management.

    The problem is when the developer gets too lazy or too cocky and starts pushing their deliverables to the last minute, causing delays.

    Oh come on!!! Are you playing idiot here??

    Tried and true solution: move deadline few days/weeks back. Or if you are more advanced, learn to manage projects better and teach people to work on "mini" dead-lines by splitting one huge deliverable into smaller project phases.

    Or they just aren't around when other developers need to talk to them. Eventually the ax will come down on them as well â" the manager must look out for what is best for the team and long term success of the organization.

    You really being too long in management. And probably got used to your position "above the mere mortals."

    If you want to become good manager, start learning how life goes. E.g. take psychology classes. Because developers are people too - they can't live in office vacuum forever. They need more *new* information. They need more diversity. Especially talented developers, as their brains burn them from inside, need even greater amount of information and diversity just to keep their brain from eating them from inside. Yet traditionally managers, to accommodate mediocre ones, filter information. Because mediocre ones get confused with too much information. But talented ones need the info to be "in touch" with work and results of the work.

    Another advise I was giving some managers is to make internal mini projects to simply keep creative and talented developers busy. That was derived from my personal experience working with extremely talented manager.

    In other words, there are tons of ways to lead people or at least to make them think you are leading them. For few exceptional people you might want to follow them or make them feel that you follow them. But few managers even consider getting acquainted with their subordinates. They'd rather wait people start going crazy.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    1. Re:Huh? by symbolic · · Score: 1

      >> Another advise I was giving some managers is to make internal mini projects to simply keep creative and talented developers busy.

      I'm not sure if I'd qualify as a "creative and talented," but that's actually not a bad idea. I've found that if I'm stuck to one project, it can get tedious, especially if there are hurdles that are blocking progress. If I have two or three things I can switch back and forth, things stay interesting and varied, and I can still get things done within an acceptable time frame.

  38. American Engineering by Pro923 · · Score: 1

    The author has managed to underscore why the state of American engineering is such a disaster. The people who are generally good at the things that the author suggests are typically also NOT the same people that are good at actual development. I worked for a company a couple jobs back that was a great example of this... The better engineers would focus and get the job done - picking up the slack for the vast majority of poor developers without bothering to mention it. Some of these poor developers spend most of their time documenting what everyone else is doing, and constantly summarizing and sending out emails to wide lists and to their managers. The sick thing is, these are the people that tend to get promoted because they give their managers a warm fuzzy feeling. Then those people become managers, and start making technical decisions which they were never qualified to make in the first place. Then they themselves start to hire and promote people in their own image - of suckage and crap enginnering, but also of great time wasting and BSing. It's really like a disease, because once it's taken a hold within a company, it spreads and you can't get rid of it.

  39. Some Times you can code, but don't fit in by phleb3 · · Score: 1

    I got hired at a well known company about a year before y2k. I had been programming about 10 years, and loved it. When I got there, I found out that the better developers had formed a 'club' and most new hires were not invited. In this case, When some of the 'club' were managers, that meant that after y2k the long knives came out. The 'club' members were smart, but petty and vindictive. It just took me a year to find this out. I don't think anything in the article would have helped.

  40. Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by DoninIN · · Score: 3, Insightful
    First. Managing people and dealing with corporate politics is something I actually know a thing or two about, developing, not so much. (although I've been mucking around programming things since nine-teen-seventy-something, among many other things.)

    Many developers imagine themselves to be unique snowflakes, who are so much smarter and better at their jobs than anyone else could possibly ever be, again, this is something I understand. (I work in manufacturing, with engineers, toolmakers and quality people, all of whom either, are smart and know how to do things you don't, or think they do, to varying degrees.)

    If you don't want to get fired remember these rules.

    Don's rules for being essential, and thus not getting fired.

    The better your boss is, the better these will work.

    1: Remember who the boss is at all times. When it is you then act like it all times. When it is not you, remember that at all times.

    1.1: Have your bosses back at all times, no matter what.

    2: When your boss asks for your input give it, argue fight scream, yell explain why he or she is utterly wrong and you are right, do not pull punches.

    3: Once your boss has made a decision, even if it is utterly wrong, accept it, go with it, do your best to make it work, if it is even remotely possible. If not, try your best to soften the crash landing. (Hint, sometimes your boss has made a doomed or stupid decision because someone told him he had to, or for some reason he can't explain to you, see rule 1.1)

    4: Do brag, do point out when you and why you are useful and what it is you do that makes the company money, and makes your bosses life easier. These are your two primary functions as an employee. Being smart, being cool, coding/designing/solving problems etc.. That's all corollary in nature to making your employer money and making your boss happy.

    5: Remember your boss may be a pointy-haired idiot, but he is your boss. (This is worth repeating.)

    6: If you feel the need to stab your boss in the back, you make absolutely certain you are going to inflict a fatal wound, and you will have a new boss afterwords. Absolutely certain. (Uhm.. Please keep in mind I mean in a business/employment sense, please don't kill anyone because of what I post on /. However if you do feel the need to kill someone, it is probably better to finish the job with a single stabbing.)

    7: Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

    8: Revenge is a dish best served cold, and anonymously.

    9: It is always better to avert any disaster or crisis from happening than it it to be sure you can blame it on someone else. Even if you have a chance to pin it on an enemy, or someone who is incompetent or stupid, don't stab anyone in the back unless it's a fatal wound.

    10: In any workplace battle or argument, keep in mind what you stand to lose and what you stand to win, there are times when it is better to cave in and accept defeat even though you are right, than it is to win a bloody hard fought victory which will leave hard feelings on both sides for some time to come.
    10.1: This rule applies even when you are smarter than the other side of the argument.
    10.2: Even when they are stupid.
    10.3 Yes this means you.

    11: In terms of internal office conflicts do not forget to give those people you are fighting with a face saving way out no matter how wrong they are, no matter how stupid they are, they are people to, if you glory in explaining and demonstrating how smart you are at their expense today, then someday in the future they will be the one's preparing you a nice cold dish full of anonymous revenge.

    Finally: Don't be a dick, don't be controversial for no good reason, like I said several times above, if I am your boss, make absolutely certain that I know you have my back at all times whether I'm right or wrong. [1] If you do this then I will fight for you to the bitter end and do everything but demand whoever wants you

    1. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by theGhostPony · · Score: 1
      My boss was an older chap from the Middle East named Mohammad. He didn't even try to hide the fact that he was a dick. After staff reductions had been announced (we were given advanced notice) he all but disappeared. We never saw him again.

      That may have been his laughter I heard in the hall that day.

      Finally: Don't be a dick, don't be controversial for no good reason...

      --
      /. Dissent will not be tolerated. Think like us or perish.
    2. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by DoninIN · · Score: 1

      "make absolutely certain that I know you have my back at all times whether I'm right or wrong. [1] If you do this then I will fight for you to the bitter end and do everything but demand whoever wants you fired meet me the parking lot" What a lovely boss you sound like. What about the not so lovely bosses who when pressured in some way from above decide the politically expedient thing that will advance their career is to cut you loose. Or perhaps I'm leaving out the portion "make absolutely certain that I know you have my back at all times whether I'm right or wrong". Which could be interpreted as "make absolutely sure you are my biggest suck-up, lackey, sycophant. Wash my car on the weekends. Babysit my kids for me. Prepare my Powerpoint briefings. Work 80 hours but report only 50."

      Well, I did say the better your boss the better these things will work, didn't I? If your boss is worth working for, or your job is worth keeping you'll make sure you get paid for everything you do, start that at day one and never compromise, I do a lot of dumb sh*t for my employer and a lot of "above and beyond" stuff, but I make sure I get paid for it all. Although of course not by the hour.

      However, I did say to make damn sure you do everything you can to convince your boss he's wrong when he's making a mistake, stomp your feet, yell scream, whatever it takes during the "open debate" period, once your boss has signed off on a mistaken course of action you do need to follow along blindly to slaughter. (I'm being a bit sarcastic, sometimes your boss will actually be right when you think they're being foolish, sometimes the course of action may still be doomed to fail, but they are still doing the right thing for reasons that aren't immediately obvious, and that may well be stupid, most PHBs have an even Pointier-Haired-Boss of their own.

      You are essentially saying to hold one's boss in no way accountable. And if you do so, make sure it is a killing blow to them.

      Yeah, pretty much.

    3. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by idiot900 · · Score: 1

      You sound like a sociopath more interested in winning at politics than delivering a good product...but you present an important perspective and good advice because there are many like you in the real world.

    4. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by Spugglefink · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow, Don, this is one to print and stick on the refrigerator.

    5. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by DigitalSorceress · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually, he doesn't sound like a sociopath.

      He sounds like a pretty bright guy who has figured out how to play the business game and survive amongst all the sociopaths, narcissists, malingerers, and general d-bags without becoming one himself.

      The fact is that he sounds very much like the kind of person I'd either like to be working with or for.

      I never really put it all into words, but it occurred to me while I was reading his post that this is more or less how I manage to get along.

      I am just about the only person in my organization who will look the head of IT in the eye and said "Dude, are you smoking crack?". Ive often found that when the the crack quotient seems high, it's due to some external (to the IT department) force, be it customer driven or from another department. Either way, there's usually very little that can be done to stop the stupid once it gains momentum... but you can often harness and direct it to some degree to end up in a semi-sane place.

      Really, there are three things I'd add to Don's rules:

      1) Know / Understand your bosses real objectives, and know / understand THEIR bosses real objective, and always keep them in mind. It will help you keep your sanity and it will make you better able to have their backs. This is especially helpful if your boss doesn't understand this rule and is oblivious to the real goals and objectives of their higher-ups. If this is the case, try and being them around. It will benefit them greatly and that will trickle down to you.

      2) Try not to care more about your task/assignment/job than your company / chain of command. I fall victim to this one all the time, but am trying to get better. Don kind of said it already - it was the part about screaming/shouting/jumping up and down on stacks of printouts while the issue was open, but accepting it once the issue was closed/decided.

      In simple terms, part of what makes a star programmer good is that they often really give a damn about what they're doing. Properly applied, this is what makes you much more productive than the run of the mill developer, but if you don't keep it in check - applying it at the wrong place/time or you're not aware of the higher-ups real objectives as stated previously, then caring too much can lead you astray.

      3a) Never cook fish in the lunchroom microwave: It really stinks up the place and everyone will hate you.

      3b) Never pop popcorn in the lunchroom microwave: It tends to bring productivity to a screeching halt as everyone takes a break to go make some for themselves. Also, anyone in the office who is on a diet will hate you.

      --

      The Digital Sorceress
    6. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      And I though they had crushed the Mafia in the US! You have a bright future in front of you boy!

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    7. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by petrus4 · · Score: 1

      9: It is always better to avert any disaster or crisis from happening than it it to be sure you can blame it on someone else. Even if you have a chance to pin it on an enemy, or someone who is incompetent or stupid, don't stab anyone in the back unless it's a fatal wound.

      Machiavelli; "If you are going to do anything at all to a man, then either kill him outright, or leave him alone."

      There have been very few times when I have been more grateful for my own situation in life, than when I have read the comments attached to this article.

      It is not that I am naive; I have read very extensively about how the game is played. It was, however, that reading, which eventually led me to the conclusion that I would literally prefer death than to play it.

    8. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by m509272 · · Score: 1

      Many good points particularly the "fatal wound" comments. I've found it useful to have your internal clients do your dirty work as well. Sometimes your boss' boss is clueless or unaware of the ineptness of your boss and you need others to perform that function for you. Mind you every effort should be made to do things the right way (good karma) before resorting to this. Sadly being nice, helping people do their job, etc frequently accomplishes nothing.

      Here's the story I love repeating. We had a "boss" that was thrust upon us one afternoon when my colleague was told he would run the project that morning. We had the expertise in the project, this guy was being unloaded from somewhere else and landed on us. We tried to get along but the guy was a total loser. Every meeting he had with others would result in a change of plans which of course we would have to re-document. At one point it cycled back to the original plan and then with the next meeting another change of plans where we decided enough was enough. We refused to make any more changes. It was a Friday and after stating "But, I'm the boss" he said take the rest of the day off and let's start fresh on Monday. After all of his crap and many beers it was deemed time to eliminate him.

      Our first opportunity (his own fault) was during a large meeting. My colleague professionally offered to present because after all we were the experts. The boss, of course, said he'll do it. Within a few minutes he was getting questions (due to his utter lack of knowledge) from the group. He would re-present the question ineptly to us (we were in the meeting) and our responses were "we're not sure what you're asking for Joe" or "we're not sure what you are referring to Joe". We, of course, commented to the attendees afterward about how well the meeting went.

      Our last effort was a couple of days before his vacation. We intentionally kept the documentation without page numbers and shuffled. He asked us if we had read anything good lately (surprising since he had seen a copy of "How to Fire your Boss" on one our desks a couple of weeks earlier). Then he asked if he could get a copy of the document to read. As we predicted that night he put page numbers on it, a cover page with only his name on it and distributed it the next day before leaving early. Later that day we went around distributing our properly titled, order and paginated document to everyone. Each person asked what it was that Joe had distributed. We advised them to read it (or try to) and then read ours.

      Joe was fired a couple of months later on Christmas Eve but after both of us had transferred leaving the project with no expertise for the effort.

    9. Re:Generic Advice, agreement and disagreement. by alexo · · Score: 1

      1: Remember who the boss is at all times. When it is you then act like it all times. When it is not you, remember that at all times.

      In most of the places I've worked, I was lucky to have managers, not bosses.
      The difference is subtle but very important.

  41. Re:Write safe code by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Its true I haven't but I'm also not just a coder I also build hardware. To be fair I should make such a general overview of a comment, as I'm still in university, but the one thing I've noticed from all my good profs who teach development based courses are keep it simple to hand it in, of course then you get the ones who don't have a clue, Cough (Ali).

    Of course it's alot different working on a RTOS then it is programming a MY SQL app (which i've never done).

  42. Re:What about... by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

    What if you're a hard-core developer? Somebody who writes back-end code -- complex SQL, libraries, etc.? Those don't have much relevance to advertising -- or anywhere outside of a purely-technology role.

    Web 2.0 development is inextricably intertwined with UI development, often publicly-facing. Hence, your switch was an organic one: you moved from one role dealing tangentially with advertising, to a role dealing more-directly with it.

    Not everybody can do that.

  43. Re:Don't leave onsite support empty handed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You paid him to work 9-5, right? You didn't pay him to be available evenings. You cannot expect him or anyone else to be available evenings or any other time they are not being paid for. Okay, so he left early one day. Who hasn't? Do you let a job interfere with the rest of your life? Do you live to work, or work to live? If you have your priorities straight, you work to live.

    Make it work in their environment? The onus was on you to either replicate the environment in house, or to fly him there so he could do the work on-site,with any custom controls or other libraries the project relied on; not fire him because you made half-assed guesses.

    Who's the asshole here in this situation? Seems to me it is you, not the "VB guy".

  44. Precisely by KalvinB · · Score: 1

    That's exactly what lead to my termination a few months ago. Perception is everything. When the unemployment insurance person called to ask me why I thought my manager didn't like me I rattled off a couple reasons and referred him to the two page document I had included with my UI application detailing the abuse and hypocrisy. At some point he said "well that's just your perception." I tried to remain calm and told him "perception is the only reason I got fired. There is nothing in my termination agreement about actual work." It was very clear I was being held to a higher standard than every other employee including the manager who fired me.

    Reality is hard so people are lazy and just pretend that their perception is "close enough."

    So yes, your immediate supervisor needs to like you. No one else matters and only their perception of you matters.

    So no matter what job you get focus on your resume. Because if your manager doesn't appreciate you, you can highlight your work on your resume and the next company will not be so blind to your value.

  45. It's not about doing a good job by kimvette · · Score: 1

    The key to success in the corporate world is NOT about high quality of work nor how much you produce. It is all about PERCEPTION.. How do people PERCEIVE your work and your productivity? You can be a slacker and come out head and shoulders above others when it comes to reviews and bonuses. You can do a lot of hard work, and shun socializing crap like company christmas parties, baseball game outings, etc. - just show up, do your job, maybe put in a few hours a week extra to get a jump on projects, but if you don't toot your own horn but have braggarts in your department who are slackers, they will come out ahead in terms of visibility.

    Now, I HATE company christmas parties (I don't do christmas. I'm not a scrooge, I just don't think it's biblical or even noteworthy), and I HATE baseball outings (I don't care much for watching baseball), and I like to have a social life with friends, not sucking up at the office,

    So the question is this: without your job revolving around work and making it your idol, how do you achieve visibility without sucking up? If you have leadership skills, take up a leadership role. This doesn't mean step on your boss's toes. This means when difficult problems come up (be it design, implementation, etc.) then volunteer to take the lead on it. Be active in organizing meetings, communicating between teams, and so forth. Use lunch to socialize with coworkers a couple of times a week. That way, your quality of work is perceived as good as it (presumably) is, and you'll even up or surpass the slackers who focus only on sucking up. The slackers are always discovered sooner or later. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later.Just make sure YOU do good work, and do what you can do toot your own horn without bragging, because the slackers are relying on ONLY that. If your boss doesn't perceive you are doing good work, then it doesn't matter what quality your output is; you may have well been doing nothing all year.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  46. Re:Really? by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 1

    Treating a Linux box as a single user box and just running everything as root is *convenient*, but not secure.

  47. Re:Don't leave onsite support empty handed by mrbester · · Score: 2
    Bang on. Blaming a coder who probably was the only one in the C(++) based company who knew a bit of VB (and probably never said he was a guru) for an environment issue makes not only you but the senior engineer a retard. Not only did the code go through invalid testing (by the senior engineer) for days, you have a completely bullshit project as you obviously lied to the client that this VB project could be done by a C++ software house.

    Then you make the entirety of the codebase reliant on one person and blame him for it not working in an environment he was not apprised of (in other words, he either wrote it to work in your environment, or a generic one). Then you arbitrarily decide that this person should be at the beck and call of the office outside office hours just because it was a VERY LARGE customer and fire him for not being contactable.

    You wankers. I hope he sued your ass off ... oh, wait, this is the States where employers can act like slavery was never abolished.

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  48. Re:Nope, you're retarded by petrus4 · · Score: 1

    Nope, you're a fucking retard. I've hired too many like you. See, there's no reason to hire you if I can outsource your work to India. None at all.

    Interesting. Very, very interesting.

    I spend time reading about the 5% Dark Side/service to self crowd, but it's very rare when I actually get one of them communicating with me directly.

    I know, though. The problem isn't actually the fact that this group exist. The problem is the fact that although they're only 5%, the other 95% of us allow them to rule the planet.

  49. That's backwards, in a well-run company by danaris · · Score: 1

    "Your Job" Is largely to make sure your manager succeeds in his job. Period. Never forget this, seriously.

    In a properly-run, efficient company, that's exactly backwards.

    The purpose of having managers in the first place is to help the line workers, of whatever stripe, do their jobs most effectively. Any manager who thinks his job is more important to the company than the jobs of the people he manages has become a bad manager, almost by definition.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:That's backwards, in a well-run company by DoninIN · · Score: 1

      Well, that's not exactly how I'd put it, your job, and your bosses job and everyone's job is to make the company money. Your boss, if he's any good at all knows that it's his job to make sure the people directly being productive, in ways that lead to sales, have what they need, get the help and support they need, etc. It's all about making money. The better a company is at making money the more room there is to have fun, relax, pay the employees etc. The more money you make the company the less likely it is someone can screw it up so badly you'll all end up unemployed, etc...

  50. Is the work environment for developers unfair? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    If you were a nurse, a cop, a teacher, or just about any kind of real career; you would have to do something really wrong to get fired.

    It that, for developers, if your productivity is not extraordinary, and if you don't play politics just right, you are seriously at risk.

    Back when developers were getting exceptional salaries, maybe the situation was worth it. But is it fair today?

    1. Re:Is the work environment for developers unfair? by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it's not fair today. In fact, in most states employment is "at will", which means among other things that if you aren't a member of a protected class of people (and often if you are a member of a protected class) you can be fired for any reason at any time. And therein lies a large part of the problem.

      Cops and teachers both have a very significant tool to protect themselves that developers as a rule lack: a union. Yes, I know, a lot of folks think of union regs as pile of bureaucratic BS, and unions as a bunch of corrupt jackasses (sometimes true), but the simple fact is that unions are very frequently a big net benefit to their members. Unions, for instance, are a primary defense that cops and teachers have against unpaid mandatory overtime.

      Nurses right now are protected by the low supply and high demand, much like developers were about 15 years ago.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  51. Re:Missed one thing by nigelo · · Score: 1

    You should have had anything you wanted off your work computer already backed up at home.

    At many places, you can get fired for that.

    --
    *Still* negative function...
  52. Firing masked as something else by djnforce9 · · Score: 1

    One thing I kind of wish this article covered was the type of "firing" that is more discrete. What I am talking about is a situation where a developer has done "nothing wrong" in order to warrant a dismissal "with cause" (i.e the axe or the sack) but the supervisor finds another way to get rid of them such as cutting away all their workload and then laying them off due to lack of need for their services. A business may do this in order to avoid having the employee contest their dismissal and/or claim it was "unlawful" in court. It's impossible to prove or even fully determine when it happens (and being dismissed this way thankfully doesn't have a negative impact on your employment record (i.e. you won't be trying to explain in the following interviews any horrible reasons you were let go)) but surely there must be ways to see it coming and avoid that as well since you will still find yourself looking for another job eventually.

  53. Another thought... by RiotNrrd · · Score: 1

    What the hell made Mr. Spiegel of XTS software think that posting this story was a good idea?

    If you were one of his customers, how would you feel knowing that the product that you just bought was developed not by the best developers but developers that knew how to play this game? Personally, I would feel more comfortable deploying software if I knew that the developers weren't spending most of their time marketing themselves internally.

    Anyone else feel this way?

  54. Re:Don't leave onsite support empty handed by RiotNrrd · · Score: 1

    Which company do you work for? Just curious.

  55. For the usual reasons: by nastyphil · · Score: 1

    - Poor interpersonal skills
    - You smell bad
    - You don't do what you are told
    - You can't actually code

    --
    Dialectician. Archology.
  56. Re:Don't leave onsite support empty handed by tonekids · · Score: 1

    Damn, where are my mod points???? Wish I could give ya a +, sir.