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Apple Wants Patents For Crippling Cellphones

theodp writes "Evil is in the eye of the beholder, but there's certainly not much to like in the newly-disclosed Apple patent applications for Systems and Methods for Provisioning Computing Devices. Provisioning, says Apple, allows carriers to 'specify access limitations to certain device resources which may otherwise be available to users of the device.' So what problem are we trying to solve here? 'Mobile devices often have capabilities that the carriers do not want utilized on their networks,' explains Apple. 'Various applications on these devices may also need to be restricted.'"

371 comments

  1. Confirmed by cabjf · · Score: 5, Funny

    This can only mean the iPhone is coming to Verizon!

    1. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My first thought!!!

    2. Re:Confirmed by ThisIsForReal · · Score: 5, Funny
      I can picture a scene of pure evil, years from now, when Apple begins suing cell phone makers once their patent has been granted.

      "Your cell phone sucks. It doesn't use all of its potential, so you are infringing on our patent and you owe us money."

      --
      -THE END-
    3. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Talk about prior art...

    4. Re:Confirmed by RichMeatyTaste · · Score: 1

      It is, next year. Bank on it.

      --


      Ever feel like you are driving the getaway car?
    5. Re:Confirmed by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Funny - I've never felt any great need to own an iPhone. But, now that I know Apple is capable of crippling and/or killing an iPhone, I feel this urge to run out and get one. Now, I know that if my iPhone tries to suck my brains out, Apple can prevent it. /sarcasm

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    6. Re:Confirmed by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This can only mean the iPhone is coming to Verizon!

      Verizon was my first cellphone carrier. I can only guess your comment has been modded by non-customers of Verizon - otherwise you'd be at +5 insightful instead.

      Seriously, anyone else remember when Verizon FINALLY offered their first Bluetooth phone (V700 I think)? Almost all of the useful Bluetooth features were disabled - when pushed, Verizon claimed it was "for security purposes"; yet they conveniently offered those same features for an outrageous fee through their own silly program. That was when I switched to T-Mobile - they're not perfect by a long shot, but at least their not overtly hostile towards their customers. With T-Mobile I could... GASP... use Bluetooth to sync my Mac's addressbook with my phone! Move pictures to and from my phone! Do my own ringtones! What a concept...

      I've heard a lot of speculation about the iPhone going to Verizon next - I really hope it's not true. If anyone can kill the iPhone, it'll be Verizon. Hmm... I wonder if Microsoft has thought about that...

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    7. Re:Confirmed by AmigaMMC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny but sad. Apple sucks end of the story. With all their bashing of Microsoft years ago they turned into something worse.

    8. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mmm. Yes. I remember modding my E815 to support OBEX.

    9. Re:Confirmed by clifyt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Almost all of the useful Bluetooth features were disabled - when pushed, Verizon claimed it was "for security purposes"; yet they conveniently offered those same features for an outrageous fee through their own silly program"

      I had the EXACT same thing through Sprint just before I canceled and switched to AT&T...but the worst part was, the phone had over the air updates, and while I paid cash for it -- I don't like these subsidized plans -- and I spent 2x what it would have cost in their store as it was unlocked, they were STILL able to disable all the features (and somehow lock the phone to their network), with the exception of bluetooth headsets...which I don't really like anyways (give me wired any day of the week...I like battery life).

      The worst part was that I bought this specifically for presentations so I could get a remote screen on the phone with the notes I needed, along with a remote control for the computer. $300 wasted. Sure, I was able to grab the firmware and reflash it, but the company would randomly update the phone again and there was little I could do about it except hope they didn't update it the night before a big presentation.

      I get pissy about my iPhone for just this reason, but at the same time, the limits Apple puts on it are FAR FAR FAR less than any company before it. When they make a bonehead moronic fucking move, I have to remind myself of Sprint....

    10. Re:Confirmed by cjb658 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hope they get this patent. Then I won't have to deal with any of this crippleware B.S. anymore, as long as I don't buy a phone from Apple.

    11. Re:Confirmed by rastilin · · Score: 1

      That's the same thing I thought of when I read the summary.

      I vote we give them these patents.

      --
      How do you kill that which has no life?
    12. Re:Confirmed by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Awww you beat me to my Bell Canada joke.

      I seriously wonder what the boardroom sounds when they make their half cocked decisions. I love how they get phones and then disable any features that consumers might want, usually on the idea of squeezing every last penny out of them. Hmmm why do none of their phones have WiFi? Jerks. For those that care, you can buy the exact same phone with working features like WiFi (different model really) at Rogers. Different mind set I guess, one looks at opportunity, the other tries to resist change to maximize short term profit. Not that I am a huge fan of Rogers at all, I just want to kick Bell Canada in the balls.

    13. Re:Confirmed by the+ReviveR · · Score: 1

      So let me get this straight:
      While Nokia is afraid that their N900 won't sell because they don't allow ANY carrier customization, Apple is patenting ways to actually cripple your device if the carriers so desire?

      I know which phone I'm getting...

    14. Re:Confirmed by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I don't know. Somehow I think that Apple is just building a patent portfolio because that's just what big companies do.

      Apple ORIGINALLY went to Verizon to pitch the iPhone but they couldn't strike a deal because Verizon wanted too much control over the device. Apple didn't want that and so they took their ball over to AT&T's house and made history. Apple is in a MUCH stronger position now, and Verizon likely wants the iPhone much, much more than they would have been then. I see no reason for Apple to cave to Verizon now, nor for Verizon to have such steep demands.

      It really does suck though because as far as coverage, Verizon is second to none. Their network really is awesome. At my home in the boonies Verizon and Nextel are the only carriers that even have a usable signal (making my choices extrmeley limited). Even when I was recently at a conference in Atlanta though, the group I was with was in a hotel with relatively thick walls - the Verizon phones were the only ones picking up a signal.

      Despite that though, their heavy handed tactics (and the fact that they use CDMA) has basically meant that the actual phones on Verizon suck. I carry my iPod Touch and a separate Verizon phone. I really wish one of the other carriers would just step up to the plate and invest in their network infrastructure. I'd switch in a heartbeat.

      The Motorola android phone coming out in the next month or two does look interesting though. Unfortunately I'm not eligible for an upgrade for another year :(.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    15. Re:Confirmed by Arkham · · Score: 1

      I work for Nokia, and I hate to tell them this, but Nokia's been doing this for years, both with device variants and with remote software (Intellisync Mobile Suite).

      --
      - Vincit qui patitur.
    16. Re:Confirmed by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Not worse. Not even quite as bad.

      But, you know, saying about a company "They're not quite as bad as Microsoft...", that's sort of carrying "Damning with faint praise" to an extreme.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    17. Re:Confirmed by indiechild · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Apple sucks" and "Apple worse than Microsoft" = guaranteed mod points.

      So how is Apple worse than Microsoft exactly?

    18. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What good is sending your contact list to your phone if you can't get a call out? Features are worthless without a network.

    19. Re:Confirmed by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Yes let's all piss on Apple to prove we're not "fanbois." Yeah Apple has been limiting the iphone, like no MMS or no tethering until recently but who was asking them to do that ? Let's not forget Apple wouldn't be the big looser if they couldn't restrict applications like Skype or Google voice, follow the money. I'm sorry, you can get back to your knee-jerking now.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    20. Re:Confirmed by DECS · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Is everyone on Slashdot really so ignorant as to never have bumped into the concept of provisioning?

      That's what corporations do when they assign employees mobile devices. They may disable the camera or require encryption features. Or if you are China or Verizon Wireless, you turn off WiFi.

      Holy Jesus, is Apple also "evil" for offering Parental Controls and MCX Managed Preferences? How about file permissions? Yeah that's right, I'm afraid Unix has been denying people their "rights" for some time now with those pesky rwxrwxrwx and execute bits.

      Sounds like a fantasy libertarian circle jerk has bukakaed Slashdot. The ignorance of this site is getting embarrassing.

    21. Re:Confirmed by reidconti · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Apple sucks" and "Apple worse than Microsoft" = guaranteed mod points.

      So how is Apple worse than Microsoft exactly?

      I think we're only hearing this from people who weren't alive during the 90s.

    22. Re:Confirmed by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      That was when I switched to T-Mobile - they're not perfect by a long shot, but at least their not overtly hostile towards their customers. With T-Mobile I could... GASP... use Bluetooth to sync my Mac's addressbook with my phone! Move pictures to and from my phone! Do my own ringtones! What a concept...

      I use T-Mobile for the same reasons. What really bugs the crap out of me is how Verizon consistently leverages their dominant network position (gained through bidding very high prices for the spectrum and then passing those costs along to the consumers with nickle-and-dime-you-to-death charges for every single feature which should already work on your phone) to quash innovations in cell phones. There is a reason why Apple went with AT&T and NOT Verizon for the iPhone. Cell phone service in the US really sucks donkey balls compared to what is available in the UK, Japan, Europe or South Korea AND for less money! Verizon is a stubborn bully standing in the way of progress here in the US and we are all paying the price, whether we use Verizon services or not.

    23. Re:Confirmed by jason.sweet · · Score: 1

      I think we're only hearing this from people who weren't alive during the 90s.

      I'm surrounded by 8 year olds? That explains a LOT!

    24. Re:Confirmed by shambalagoon · · Score: 1

      My first thought was that if Apple was granted this patent, they could force AT&T to allow tethering on iPhones, a feature Apple would love to provide but which AT&T blocks. Course, they'd be making AT&T angry but with their huge market share AT&T probably would just have to put up with it.

      Course, it could also be used as a weapon against any other phone manufacturers, either to prevent crippling (but to what purpose?) or else get a piece of the pie from every carrier that blocks and then sells back features.

    25. Re:Confirmed by pantherace · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid Unix has been denying people their "rights" for some time now with those pesky rwxrwxrwx and execute bits.

      They aren't denying you anything with rwxrwxrwx!

    26. Re:Confirmed by DECS · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's what they want you to think. Just wait till those bits turn off. Suddenly YOUR files belong to THEM.

      ---

      Well I guess I could have written --------- but that might not have been as clear.

    27. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      It's an easy thing to download and install an app that enables tethering on my Windows Mobile phone. It does not require a dangerous jailbreaking process. It cannot result in bricking the phone. By doing so I do not lose access to any sort of market place and if I did I wouldn't need it anyway as any app I want is just a website away. I've never seen Microsoft block an app. Apple has censored rss readers just because they saw an article in an rss feed they wanted to censor! They have blocked music apps because they didn't approve of a CD cover image which it displayed! Other than the slight inconvenience they created regarding tethering Microsoft seems to have taken no steps to block anything else my provider, Verizon does not allow in it's user agreement. Skype works just fine even though Verizon does not allow VoIP.

    28. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Not to defend Microsoft but how are they worse (or even as bad) as Apple? I was alive in the 90s. I was alive in the 80s too! Apple has always put out closed garbage and locked it's users into doing things their way. Microsoft tried to make it difficult to use OSs other than Windows and Office Suites other than MSOffice but at least they never cared what hardware you ran it on or what other software you might chose to add.

    29. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      As a Verizon customer I hope not!

    30. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you for real? My network provider is not my boss. I do not work for them. I pay my money for my bandwidth. My network provider is not my parent. They should not get parental controls over me.

    31. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The difference is if you own the unix box you have root. If you own the cellphone Apple or AT&T get root? Should your home internet provider get root on your computer? Why is it so hard for people to get the concept of ownership?!?

    32. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Ive had Verizon about 2 years now. Reading various internet posts I get the impression they used to be one of the worst providers for limiting their customers. I think the only things disallowed in the service agreement now are tethering and VoIP. I've done both. They work just fine. Verizon has not disconnected me either. I think they just hold those out for people who start downloading gigs of movies or who buy minimum voice minutes just to use Skype all the time. I never really did much with bluetooth though. I usually sync via internet or USB so maybe that's why my experience has been positive.

    33. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If China is going to make them figure it out and do it, they sure as hell are going to patent it so only they can comply with Chinese wackiness.

      OIC

    34. Re:Confirmed by Khyber · · Score: 0, Troll

      I was born and alive in the 80s. I used Apple then, it sucked. A few years back I had a job working as an Apple laptop repair tech. Guess what? They STILL sucked. I had never seen so many failure rates. Hel, most of the refurbished machines would kernel panic, requiring several different repairs to get in working order again. Let's not even get into the pain of trying to reimage the laptops. That froze up half of the time because the Apple Image Server SUCKED BALLS yet it had more hardware than I could piss on.

      Now they're just sucking even more.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    35. Re:Confirmed by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Not to defend Microsoft but how are they worse (or even as bad) as Apple?

      With Apple you pay up front, with Microsoft you pay on the back-end. Apple's stuff is typically better engineered and is safer for its users. Linux+KDE is even safer, but usability is still in-progress (it's really not ready, as much as I'd like it to be).

      Both are proprietary. Apple is somewhat more open - it at least sponsors a bunch of open source work.

      Apple has always controlled the whole widget for typical customers (though I've run NetBSD, BeOS and Linux on various Macs). Microsoft has attempted to do so through anti-competitive measures and monopoly pressures.

      at least they never cared what hardware you ran it on

      as long as that hardware only ran Windows

      or what other software you might chose to add.

      This is only new as of iPhone. Microsoft is always playing catch-up.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    36. Re:Confirmed by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      who was asking them to do that ?

      And why is it that Apple can't simply say "no"?

      Apple wouldn't be the big looser if they couldn't restrict applications like Skype or Google voice, follow the money.

      I see Apple making tons of money because people who want a fully-functional Skype or Google Voice would choose an iPhone.

      It's not Apple I see hurting, it's AT&T.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    37. Re:Confirmed by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Apple is somewhat more open - it at least sponsors a bunch of open source work.

      So does Microsoft.

      Except Microsoft strikes me as more open -- just compare the iPhone to Win Mobile. Even with their desktop operating systems, OS X may be better engineered, but it's certainly not more customizable than Windows.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    38. Re:Confirmed by DECS · · Score: 1

      Parental Controls and MCX are examples of provisioning features. They're not to benefit children and employees, they're there to serve parents and employers.

      If you don't like the deal being offered by your ISP, you choose a less restrictive ISP. Complaining that Apple is reaching out to the Chinese Communists and Verizon Capitalists shouldn't affect you unless you choose to live under the reign of either.

      Sounds like you prefer to complain about subjects irrelevant to you.

      Provisioning is also used to enable specific features in specific ways on different carriers, such as MMS and tethering, or to allow companies or groups to deploy signed iPhone app to a specific set of phones.

      Slashdot is starting to sound like a republican town hall. Lots of angry shouting, not much thinking.

    39. Re:Confirmed by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Sounds like someone didn't even bother to read the fucking summary.

      Provisioning, says Apple, allows carriers to 'specify access limitations to certain device resources which may otherwise be available to users of the device.'

      My carrier is not my parent, nor should they be setting Unix permissions and denying me root.

      But you know what? I wish Apple the best of luck. If everyone else but Apple is forced to stop crippling their devices (unless they're a boss/parent), the world will be better off.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    40. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The BlackBerry already has this functionality too.

      AT&T for example will not allow BlackBerry Maps on my Curve, presumably so they can sell subscriptions to their preferred partners mapping software rather than giving you the functionality for free. You used to be able to hack this by tweaking files on the device during an OS upgrade, but more recent versions of the OS allow the carrier to configure the phone via the Service Book feature, which so far as I know can't be overridden by the owner. After visiting the EU recently I was able to get the service book for BlackBerry maps while I was there, and was thus able to finally use it - and it's actually quite valuable. Similarly though, the EU carriers remove access to some other applications and can constrain some options in the browser config etc.

      I wish that at least unlocked phones would respect their owner, rather than the carrier. If the carrier decides to take action after that then so be it.

    41. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      >>Linux+KDE is even safer
      I agree

      >>it's really not ready
      That mantra is getting old. What does it not do that either of the other two do? I understood when Linux was difficult to set up but now you just pop in your KUbuntu CD and go...

      >>Both are proprietary
      Yes

      >>Apple is somewhat more open - it at least sponsors a bunch of open source work
      What does donating some money have to do with being open? As a consumer why do I care?

      >>Microsoft has attempted to do so through anti-competitive measures and monopoly pressures.
      True, and I do see how there use of formats and their monopoly has made things very difficult for open software or even closed software competitors. Still as an end user, that only slows down the market from providing me alternatives I can use. It does not prevent me from installing them or disable my device when I do. Clearly the Apple way is more evil there. I can only imagine what Apple would do if they ever did have monopoly power. Keep buying their junk!

      >>as long as that hardware only ran Windows
      Huh? I can run Windows on any PC compatible computer. I can run Linux or BSD or Syllable or etc... on the same machine. It's always been that way. Granted, I could run those on a Mac too these days. Now on the embedded side, many Windows Mobile PDAs can run Linux. You can even boot it on my own cellphone, an XV6700 though there isn't enough driver support to make it useful. I'm not exactly giving Microsoft credit for this as it certainly isn't due to anything they have done but how does your statement make any sense?

      >>This is only new as of iPhone. Microsoft is always playing catch-up.
      Yes, this particular way of being closed is currently limitted to iPhone. I suppose Microsoft could follow even. They may even have to, now with carriers empowered by Apple they don't need Microsoft as much and they can demand that Microsoft close down their platform. Still, any way this happens, even if Microsoft does this totally of their own free will it will always be Apple that did this to their customers first. How is Apple not the more evil of the two very evil companies? This sounds like such fanboy logic. If it's evil and Microsoft does it first they are evil for doing it first. If Apple does it first then Microsoft is playing catch-up by not thinking of it first?

    42. Re:Confirmed by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      The 90s? You mean the decade of cooperative multitasking, where holding down a mouse button could bring down an entire Mac network?

    43. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      >>Sounds like you prefer to complain about subjects irrelevant to you.
      Here in in communist Amerika to borrow your not so great analogy there really aren't any truly open wireless service providers to chose. Apple is empowering AT&T to be more controlling of how it's customers use the network they are paying to access.

      This applies to all US wireless customers because dit sets a precedent which very well could lead the state of US wireless service towards being even more closed than it already is. Unfortunately we do not have a history of open cellphones the way we do open computers. (Think back to the 80s, early 90s when open IBM Clones beat out closed Apples in the market). People aren't thinking about what they should be able to do with a handheld device that has a wireless connection to the internet and internals not much different from their home computer. They are remembering a plain old telephone and see all these shiny apps from the iPhone store as something really new and wonderful.

      This time the closed devices are winning the hearts and minds of the population because there is not open device to see and most don't have enough imagination to think to demand one. This starts with the carriers of course but given that Apple phones are more closed than any others it would seem that Apple, not AT&T must have ultimately made the decision to build them that way.

      >>Parental Controls and MCX are examples of provisioning features. They're not to benefit children and employees, they're there to serve parents and employers.
      Again, what does this have to do with anything? Your cellphone provider is neither your parent or your employer. Well, unless you work for your provider but most of us do not. Now, if my work gave me a cellphone and they installed security software on the phone so I couldn't abuse it that would be an entirely different matter. At 30 y/o my parents don't get that ability anymore. Maybe I will want that for my kid's phones (1st one is due next year) but that still has nothing to do with anything here.

    44. Re:Confirmed by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      And why is it that Apple can't simply say "no"?

      Remember when the iphone just came out and everyone thought they were crazy to get into an overcrowded handset market as an unproven player and Balmer said it would bomb, etc ? They weren't exactly in a position of strength yet when they went into this contract with AT&T.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    45. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the limits Apple puts on it are FAR FAR FAR less than any company before it.

      yyyyyyyeah, it's so hard to get the software you want onto a Blackberry or Windows Mobile phone, on the Carrier you want, what with the jailbreaking and unlocking, and constant fear of bricking...

      Oh, wait...

    46. Re:Confirmed by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      OK, after writing the long reply I realize a shorter version is better. I was pointing out that parental controls are a horrible analogy. An employer controlling their resources or a parent raising their child are good things. They are as it should be.

      A service provider controlling it's customer is backwards. We customers are the provider's employers. We write their checks. They get too much control.

      That is why I took issue with your analogy.

    47. Re:Confirmed by janwedekind · · Score: 1

      I think the patent office should use Amazon's Ebook-DRM so that they can withdraw the patent when they find prior art later on.

    48. Re:Confirmed by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Apple is somewhat more open - it at least sponsors a bunch of open source work.

      So does Microsoft.

      Could you elaborate?

      Except Microsoft strikes me as more open -- just compare the iPhone to Win Mobile. Even with their desktop operating systems, OS X may be better engineered, but it's certainly not more customizable than Windows.

      Apple publishes the source code for the UNIX part of its operating system under an OSI license. Isn't that dramatically more open?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    49. Re:Confirmed by DECS · · Score: 1

      "Apple is empowering AT&T to be more controlling of how it's customers use the network they are paying to access. "

      Actually you got that backwards. Apple dramatically changed the mobile landscape in the US, forcing the carriers' market to open up to a new device. Verizon rejected the iPhone, but Cingular/AT&T was in desperate need of subscribers, so it capitulated to Apple by offering unlimited data access by a handset that could actually use data (unlike any other US phone previously), while also supplying wide open WiFi access (something else US carriers hated).

      That's why AT&T's network is being so hammered by critics - they don't realize that Apple opened the floodgates for unrestricted mobile data, knocking down AT&T's network in a way that Verizon would never have allowed (and still doesn't). Apple took away carrier control and gave it to users, at a cost similar to what carriers were already charging for worthless/unusable mobile data service.

      As far as contrasting the open/closed PC market, "IBM clones" weren't open, they just had no QA standards. That's why Microsoft had to struggle to get PC makers to converge on basic "Multimedia PC" standards in the early 90s just to allow users to play basic audio, at a time when Apple's computers were capable of real audio/video and hyperlinked media.

      Once Microsoft killed off any remaining competition in PC OSs in the mid-90s, trying to argue that PCs were more "open" just makes you look silly. There is nothing open about Windows PCs. Mobile devices have even less need to be "open." Cars and game consoles and refrigerators aren't "open," and the public isn't asking for "openness," they want fun shit that works and is reasonably priced.

      Open mobile phone platforms won't deliver any of those things. They can only offer a Linux PC experience: DIY shit that doesn't work, isn't finished, and is free only if you invest your life into making it work. Which is really expensive if you don't have a lot of free time and interests that circle around troubleshooting bullshit.

      Provisioning is actually what the article is about, which is why I was addressing that.

       

    50. Re:Confirmed by DECS · · Score: 1

      It wasn't an analogy. Provisioning is a basic concept that underlies the marketing features of both Parental Controls and Managed Preferences. It relates to access permissions.

      You can think of everything in terms of "what you want" as a customer, but the reality is that mobile providers want to give you a specific packages of options. If they only sell one size to fit all, then people who don't need it all would still have to pay for it all.

      You wouldn't want to pay for a site license to Photoshop just to edit pictures at home. You might even want to get by with Elements. Those are options.

      Same applies to mobile providers. Maybe you don't want to pay for everything. Maybe you're a company and don't want or can't support everything. That's the problem provisioning solves.

       

    51. Re:Confirmed by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1


      >>it's really not ready
      That mantra is getting old. What does it not do that either of the other two do?

      Things that frustrate me on a daily basis would include: pulseaudio is always crapping out (they blame the hardware drivers that work under ALSA), wake from sleep on my netbook is hit-or-miss, syncing my phone isn't yet possible (maybe the next-next version of OpenSync will work), no detection of unplugging an external display (kms will handle this in the next xorg), DPI rendering issues depending on the toolkit/window manager in use (better in KDE 4.3 but still some problems), no usable multi-head configuration tool, crazy-hard file manager, crazy-hard file chooser (depending on toolkit), multimedia codec difficulties (improving), no tear-free video (maybe in Wayland), difficult to setup some printers (had to manually configure one wireless HP last week with lots of googling), video drivers that don't support currently available hardware, Network Manager hoses my routing table, task bar requires too many clicks. I can handle lots of these but my parents can't.

      I understood when Linux was difficult to set up but now you just pop in your KUbuntu CD and go...>>Apple is somewhat more open - it at least sponsors a bunch of open source work
      What does donating some money have to do with being open? As a consumer why do I care?

      They actively employ these guys and integrate their work into their OS. gcc is one. CUPS is another - the list is of fairly good size. As a consumer you're probably unaware. You might notice your linux apps get faster thanks to the SSA trees in gcc or your printing doesn't hang thanks to the work on CUPS, to borrow from above.

      It does not prevent me from installing them or disable my device when I do. Clearly the Apple way is more evil there.

      You're referring to iPhone here. Most of my comments were about Macintosh. I'll grant you that Macintosh has its days numbered and there will be desktop iPhones in the near future.

      I can only imagine what Apple would do if they ever did have monopoly power.

      see the iPhone.

      Keep buying their junk!

      nah, they've abandoned the cost curve - I was just posting on twitter yesterday about how a new MBP is the same price as it was 3 years ago and really hasn't improved in any significant way, plus the manufacturing costs have gone down. I bought one then, but now it's not a good deal.

      >>as long as that hardware only ran Windows ...I'm not exactly giving Microsoft credit for this as it certainly isn't due to anything they have done but how does your statement make any sense?

      See US vs. Microsoft - they threatened to revoke OEM Windows licenses if they sold competing OS's.

      >>This is only new as of iPhone. Microsoft is always playing catch-up.
      Yes, this particular way of being closed is currently limitted to iPhone. I suppose Microsoft could follow even. They may even have to, now with carriers empowered by Apple they don't need Microsoft as much and they can demand that Microsoft close down their platform. Still, any way this happens, even if Microsoft does this totally of their own free will it will always be Apple that did this to their customers first. How is Apple not the more evil of the two very evil companies? This sounds like such fanboy logic. If it's evil and Microsoft does it first they are evil for doing it first. If Apple does it first then Microsoft is playing catch-up by not thinking of it first?

      Good and evil aren't really useful metrics here. I've personally abandoned Apple over iPhone tactics and their prosecution of bloggers, but I can still recognize that they make useful contributions to the Open Source community and that they make pretty decent computers that are relatively easy to use and secure. Microsoft really does me no good at all and has a history of actively attacking the Open Source community while releasing shoddy products. The question was, "which is worse, Apple or Microsoft?", and for me, Microsoft does all harm, Apple does less and provides some benefits.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    52. Re:Confirmed by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I was alive in the 90s (and the 80s, and 70s just about). And that's precisely why I'm now concerned about Apple's behaviour - I know exactly what sort of consequences bad monopolies can have.

      On the contrary, I'd say it's those people now cheering Apple on, wanting them to become the dominant platform in mobile computing, who either have short memories or weren't alive in the 90s, when we went through this with MS on the desktop.

    53. Re:Confirmed by Omestes · · Score: 1

      That mantra is getting old. What does it not do that either of the other two do? I understood when Linux was difficult to set up but now you just pop in your KUbuntu CD and go...

      I'm not who you were replying too, but I'll bite.

      The various flavors of Ubuntu are very very nice, and have served to bring Linux much closer to the mythical "Year of Linux Desktop", but it still hasn't quite made it. Well, let me refine that previous statement, it has and hasn't made it, depending on what we're looking for. If we are looking for competition with OS X and Windows, then it hasn't. If our goal, instead, a good, stable, competent and adaptable OS environment, then it has. Sadly the latter statement is completely seperated from the former.

      Ubuntu still lacks the overwhelming "user friendliness" of its competitors, both in GUI design, and in support for 3rd party hardware, and software. This is more important to the typical Joe-Sixpack type than being a generally complete OS. Kubuntu, and Ubuntu still lack "polish", they are not sexy, and have no desire to strive towards it. Most people might be shallow, but this is still important. Notice how much MS and Apple spend on usability studies, HCI experts, ergonomics, and design, now compare this to how much various Linux distros (or at least windowing systems) spend. Part of this is shallow users following the "shiney", but HCI, usability, and aesthetics are also very important towards productivity.

      Another obstacle is that in most Linux distros, the "technical crap" is still to visible under the shell... People don't want to interact with the underlying OS anyone, they want everything to be a seamless experience within the shell. People don't care how it works, the most desirable feature of a modern OS is he ability to use it productively without EVER having to see the inner workings. They want information appliances... Push a lever, make toast. Linux isn't quite there yet, mostly because most of the contributors and users of Linux don't want it this way. No fault there, personally I don't blame them, but this detracts from its mass appeal.

      3rd party support is a HUGE hurdle. I know that most of this is the vendor's fault, but it still stands in the way. How many Linux users complain about Flash here? How often do you still run into arcane driver problems that you have to hack your way out of? Its better now, but still isn't quite there for the average lazy Windows/OS X user. And worse, this idea of having to hand type config files has become a common meme for Linux, which drives people away. Even when this gets substantially better still, its going to be an up hill battle for adoption.

      I don't see the problem though, why does Linux need to compete with OS X and Windows? It works, most people here love it and get things done on it, isn't that enough? Hell, Linux has roughly the same market share as OS X. Linux is a geek OS, a hobbyist and technical OS, and this is fine, its a niche. As far as common perception goes; "OS X is for those odd creative types, and yuppies who want to act like those odd creative types", "Windows is for normal people who want massive compatibility and a large collection of professional (for pay) software", and "Linux is for nerds who enjoy the ability to manipulate the arcane and scary inter-workings of their computers, and for business".

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    54. Re:Confirmed by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      The fact that Apple acts like what for other phones is your boss or your parents is exactly why people are criticising them.

      The ignorance of this site is getting embarrassing.

      Isn't it!

    55. Re:Confirmed by DECS · · Score: 1

      You're referencing the app store or what? That's not the issue here, but if you are, you should consider that the app store is functional, for developers and for users, in a way that "other phones" are not.

      If you prefer ideology over functionality/availability/commercial viability, then knock yourself out. But spare us the "ought" conversation and hypothetical moralizing propped up against a failed world view.

      If being "open" solved all problems, we'd be all using Linux PCs and using OpenMoko handsets. We might also be living in a communist paradise. Unfortunately, none of those things work well enough for most people to actually use.

    56. Re:Confirmed by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      The summary what written by an idiot...ignorant...wildly sensationalized bit of bullshit...

      Ok, but you have to explain why -- you seriously ranted without a point for two paragraphs there.

      you don't have true device root on any phone, including FOSS projects like OpenMoko and Android.

      How so?

      My understanding is that there are, indeed, several Android forks which can be run on an Android device. Google is not suing them because such a project isn't allowed, but rather, because they included some proprietary Google apps like Gmail.

      carriers control their own network

      That is a choice. Obviously, not all carriers insist on such tight control of every device on their network.

      the FCC mandates a closed baseband.

      Which has what to do with allowing users the freedom to tinker with their own devices?

      There is nothing approaching an "unlimited, unfettered device," for obvious reasons.

      It's not obvious. Spell it out for us.

      To say that Apple is treading on your rights... BEFORE you buy the device is simply juvenile ranting.

      I never said Apple is treading on my rights. And is any criticism of a device I didn't buy, and have no intention of buying, automatically "juvenile ranting"?

      So much for journalism, I guess...

      If you stand back, you'll realize that the smartphones that "aren't crippled" (in your view) are actually the most lame.

      Oh?

      Android, a platform that announced its SDK and store before the iPhone, but can mange to keep up with Apple

      Be specific. In what way can't Android keep up with apple?

      If you say "sales", fine, but I don't use that as a measure of "lame".

      sniveling... real world.

      In the real world, if you wish to be taken seriously, you should make an argument with facts, not a pathetic half-troll of ad-homs.

      Try again.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    57. Re:Confirmed by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Remember when the iphone just came out and everyone thought they were crazy to get into an overcrowded handset market as an unproven player and Balmer said it would bomb, etc ?

      No I don't.

      I mean, yes, Ballmer said it would bomb. That's what Ballmer does. Did anyone else say it would bomb?

      I remember this thing being an instant hit, on launch day. Maybe they didn't realize what they had?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    58. Re:Confirmed by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Could you elaborate?

      Well, aside from actively working with the Mono guys, for example...

      There's also CodePlex.

      Apple publishes the source code for the UNIX part of its operating system under an OSI license.

      There are tons of free Unixes out there, so this isn't really earth-shattering. The question is, what does it actually let you do to OS X?

      And the answer is, not much. The OS X GUI, which is the whole reason most people would want OS X in the first place, is opaque. It's been awhile, but last I checked, the Darwin included in OS X is heavily Tivo-ized -- you can get most of the source to it, but you can't compile your own version and expect it to run OS X.

      Also, I'm curious if anyone has attempted to completely remove Finder and the Dock, and have a usable system that can still run OS X apps. (If not actually remove from disk, at least ensure they aren't what's started on boot -- develop another shell, for instance.) Because you can run a replacement shell on Windows.

      Regardless, the only platform Microsoft has that's even close to as locked-down as the iPhone is the Xbox 360, and there don't seem to be nearly as many horror stories about their approval process there.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    59. Re:Confirmed by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 1

      Apple Inc. != Apple Computer Inc.

      Apple Computer was the "cool" Apple that made you want to root for the underdog and wait for the "next big thing" like a kid on christmas morning.

      The current Apple, however, is just plain evil and needs to be put down before it hurts us all. I love the mac, but I can't help but be unnerved by what the platform will become under this new "lock it all down" attitude Apple has.

      --


      8==8 Bones 8==8
    60. Re:Confirmed by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I had the EXACT same thing through Sprint just before I canceled and switched to AT&T...but the worst part was, the phone had over the air updates, and while I paid cash for it -- I don't like these subsidized plans -- and I spent 2x what it would have cost in their store as it was unlocked, they were STILL able to disable all the features (and somehow lock the phone to their network), with the exception of bluetooth headsets...which I don't really like anyways (give me wired any day of the week...I like battery life).

      Yeah, I had Sprint and they screwed me repeatedly. Kept billing me for video downloads when neither my plan nor my phone supported video playback. Plus which they spammed me repeatedly, and then had the huevos to bill me 20c for each spam when my plan had unlimited text messaging. Every month I'd have to call them up to have yet another gratuitous charge removed from my bill. I couldn't wait for my contract to be up so I could get the hell away from the Comcast of the cellular world. Why these crooks are allowed to stay in business (or to continue to operate the way they do) just shows how little authority the Feds maintain over our communications infrastructure any more.

      I switched to T-Mobile, and have a G1 running Cyanogenmod. It does everything I happen to need, and more. No, it's not as polished as an iPhone, but then again I don't buy stuff based upon glitter, nor do I willingly support corporations with blatant anti-customer practices, especially when viable alternatives exist. Now, I don't know whether Android will, in the end, be as open as it is now, and frankly Google's recent serving of a C&D on Steve Kondik rather tarnishes their image for me (a dick move on Google's part, for sure.) For the moment, though, I'm enjoying the benefits of a Linux-based cell phone that even my carrier can't muck with too much. The way I see it, smart phones are really personal computers with built-in cellular modems ... and I wouldn't let any corporation limit what software I can or cannot execute on my own PC, or restrict how I use said PC. So long as T-Mobile stays as customer-friendly as they are, they'll keep my business. Oh, and I haven't had a single goddamn billing error since I switched to them, which is a big plus for me.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    61. Re:Confirmed by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      > Or Android, a platform that announced its SDK and store before the iPhone, but can mange
      > to keep up with Apple nor attract similar interest from developers or users.

      Let's try a fairer comparison: compare Android and iPhone 6 months after Sprint launches the (Android) Hero (October 11... 8 painfully long days to go...) and Verizon manages to cripple an iPhone enough to make its management happy. THEN it will be a fair comparison. Sprint's not the biggest, but they've got the hardest-core users. Verizon's huge, but are firm believers that "WinMo's not done 'till WiFi and the built-in GPS receiver won't run". Frankly, Verizon and Apple were made for each other.

      Come next Sunday, the joy in SprintLand will make Microsoft's Win7 house parties look like calling hours at a funeral home ;-)

    62. Re:Confirmed by RedK · · Score: 1

      Apple is far from a monopoly though. It's not like they don't have to face healthy competition. And that's even more true in mobile platforms, where they are #3 in market share.

      --
      "Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
      Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
    63. Re:Confirmed by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1
      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    64. Re:Confirmed by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      The first was a nice summary, in that it showed both the "it's a failure" perspective, and the "It's done damned well in its first two days" perspective.

      The problem was more that they expected it to be a huge success, and it was only a moderate success that continued to snowball into an even huger success.

      No, it's the iPod that I remember people being underwhelmed by.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    65. Re:Confirmed by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      It's October now. A lot of them might be nine.

    66. Re:Confirmed by mjwx · · Score: 1

      So how is Apple worse than Microsoft exactly?

      Well for one, Microsoft has never sued anyone over the "look and feel". In fact they hardly ever sue anyone.

      Nor do MS make their developers sign NDA's or control what applications will and will not run on their platforms.

      Everything that MS does is driven by one thing, greed. MS's evil is entirely a side effect of their greed. Apple on the other hand seems to be motivated by control.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    67. Re:Confirmed by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Both are proprietary. Apple is somewhat more open - it at least sponsors a bunch of open source work.

      Apple contributes next to nothing to open source. They only do what they have to in order to meet the minimum requirements of the licenses they use (Apache, BSD, no real share and share alike licenses, Apple avoids those like the plague).

      MS on the other hand does contribute to open source, (Mono for one example) it just uses less of it. In this way Microsoft is a lot less evil then Apple as MS does not use OSS and then tries as hard as possible not to give anything back.

      The NDA's and law suites against ordinary people pushes Apple into the evil category whist all your examples only put MS into the greedy category.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    68. Re:Confirmed by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Nah, it will go like this: "To stay competitive", everyone licenses the patent from Apple to be able to limit the full usage of the bandwidth and tech you have to pay for anyway. And everyone passes the cost on to the consumers. No matter what phone they actually buy.

      Yay for oligopolies!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    69. Re:Confirmed by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      the limits Apple puts on it are FAR FAR FAR less than any company before it.

      The companies -- if you are referring to cell phone builders -- don't do anything like that. It's the network providers. So you're either comparing Apples (literally) to Oranges (in the UK also literally), or your statement is just false. Try a Nokia phone from a German shop like The Phone House or Debitel. They are resellers for the networks. But: No locking, no branding, no crippling. Just the device like if you would buy a laptop. Plus a SIM card. That's it. And cheaper than the shops of the actual networks.

      It's sad that T-Mobile (a German company) started to do the same shit in the US as the other providers. Because with the conditions that they offer here (not even pretty good compared to the resellers), they would have completely taken over the market in the US in 2-3 years.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    70. Re:Confirmed by qkslvr · · Score: 1

      unfortunately, they had to sign the contract with ATT *before* launch day. quite a bit before they *knew* it was a hit, and before the public had even seen the device. In fact, they were a newcomer hoping for a carrier to allow them to use their device on a network that wasn't even configured to accomodate a device capable of the kind of bandwidth and content-rich applications. now the tables are turned, unfortunately none of the carrier networks are open networks. this is why we need network neutrality. desperately.

    71. Re:Confirmed by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      They don't work because the whole stack isn't open, just the OS/apps.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    72. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1980s? was that when they had fire as a "feature"?

    73. Re:Confirmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or even 10!

  2. In other news... by Kirin+Fenrir · · Score: 4, Funny

    All iPhones will now play the Imperial March on startup.

    --
    Caffeine is my anti-drug!

    Duranin - A NWN2 Roleplaying Persistent World
    1. Re:In other news... by kenj0418 · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... will now play the Imperial March ....

      My phone does that now -- but only when my ex-wife calls.

    2. Re:In other news... by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Note to self, never update the iphone firmware past 3.0.1. Mind you, having it play the imperial march would be a tempting reason to upgrade, although I can do that myself without all the extra hassle :)

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    3. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get your iJackboots before they're sold out?

    4. Re:In other news... by qazxswedc · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ex?! Mine plays that for my current wife.

    5. Re:In other news... by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      How do you know whether that since you installed 3.0.1 you still have a choice to upgrade?

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    6. Re:In other news... by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mine plays [the Imperial March] for my current wife.

      Complaining already, eh? You better pray that she doesn't alter the agreement any further.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    7. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      English, Mother Fucker. Do you speak it?

    8. Re:In other news... by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      "How do you know whether that since you installed 3.0.1 you still have a choice to upgrade?"

      Can be rearranged as

      "Since you installed 3.0.1, how do you know you still have a choice to upgrade?"

      There is nothing wrong with my syntax, just your comprehension.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    9. Re:In other news... by Draek · · Score: 1

      You must be my old calculus teacher then :) whenever his wife called, the Imperial March started playing so he'd stop the whole class, hold the phone up so that we'd all listen to it and, after it finished playing, hang up without even answering.

      Funny as hell for us students, but how did she abstain herself from shoving his cellphone up my teacher's rectum afterwards I do not know.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    10. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that still makes no sense. He's saying he doesn't want to upgrade past 3.0.1. Since 3.1 is out, he has a choice to upgrade to that. Why would he not have a choice to upgrade?

    11. Re:In other news... by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      My suggestion was he may not have the choice to remain at 3.0.1

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    12. Re:In other news... by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      Mine plays the Mah Na Mah Na song whenever my husband calls.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  3. Queue Verizon talk in... by bytethese · · Score: 1

    Oh wow, that was quick.

    1. Re:Queue Verizon talk in... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 0

      BTW, you meant "cue".

    2. Re:Queue Verizon talk in... by bytethese · · Score: 3, Funny

      BTW, I meant queue as in "everyone is lining up to comment about Verizon" but thanks for knowing what I meant. :)

    3. Re:Queue Verizon talk in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if he was asking the Verizon talk to line up? Hmm? Nah, you are right.

    4. Re:Queue Verizon talk in... by TaggartAleslayer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nice save there chief. Real smooth and entirely believable. O_o

    5. Re:Queue Verizon talk in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You guys are dorks

    6. Re:Queue Verizon talk in... by Yamata+no+Orochi · · Score: 0

      BTW, I meant queue as in "everyone is lining up to comment about Verizon" but thanks for knowing what I meant. :)

      Not buying it.

    7. Re:Queue Verizon talk in... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      It takes one to know one!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  4. That is hardly news by warp_kez · · Score: 5, Funny

    When most phones, including the iPhone, come into contact with anything Apple, they become crippled.

    At least we can officially call it: The Apple Effect.

    1. Re:That is hardly news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Interesting"?

    2. Re:That is hardly news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you mean is, by comparison, other cell phones seem crippled when compared to iPhone.

    3. Re:That is hardly news by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that an Apple a day doesn't keep the doctor away?

    4. Re:That is hardly news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Applies to people too

    5. Re:That is hardly news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you mean is, by comparison, other cell phones seem crippled when compared to iPhone.

      HAHA HAHAH AH AH AHAHA HA HAAHHA HAH AAHAH AHH AHAH AHA HAHA HAH AHAH AHAH AHA HAHAH AHAH AHAHA HAHA...

      ::sniff:: Wow, that's great. You probably really believe that too...

      ...HAHAH AHAHAH AHAHA HAHAH AHAHA HAHA HAHA HAHAH AHAHAHAHA

      Filter error: That's an awful long string of letters there.

    6. Re:That is hardly news by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that an Apple a day doesn't keep the doctor away?

      Well, it certainly won't keep the FTC and the FCC away, at this rate...

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    7. Re:That is hardly news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fapping much over Steve's picture?

  5. "defectivebydesign" by Nemyst · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This tag has never been more appropriate...

    1. Re:"defectivebydesign" by westlake · · Score: 1

      This tag has never been more appropriate...

      Or more insignificant.

      It won't deter Apple's customers from choosing the iPhone if their cellular provider has it to offer.

  6. Not defective by design by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    This story is tagged "defectivebydesign", but what Apple wants to do is anything but.

    Operators have a hard limit on the amount of service they can actually provision. Allowing any and all devices to run willy nilly on the network would be certain death, even for the best-laid network. By throttling certain services, turning off certain capabilities, and allowing remote provisioning management, Apple is making sure that the device they are providing to users will work and continue to work on the network.

    This is a very important feature not only for the NOs, but also for businesses who would provide these phones to their field teams. Though, to be honest, restriction of features doesn't seem very patentable, at least there are other implementations that already exist. WinMo has had this since WM6.1, for example.

    1. Re:Not defective by design by cjfs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      restriction of features doesn't seem very patentable

      Haven't been around the patent office lately, have you?

    2. Re:Not defective by design by iangoldby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Operators have a hard limit on the amount of service they can actually provision. Allowing any and all devices to run willy nilly on the network would be certain death, even for the best-laid network.

      Or alternatively, why not use an appropriate charging structure, so that it becomes prohibitively expensive for the end user to consume excessive resources? And use the extra revenue earned from those users who are willing to pay for large consumption to increase the capacity.

    3. Re:Not defective by design by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 1

      That's one option, but there is still the risk of a rogue app (perhaps a virus) getting installed and bogging down a local cell before the user is hit with the excess charges. Worse if it is a popular app.

    4. Re:Not defective by design by No+Grand+Plan · · Score: 1

      Or alternatively, why not use an appropriate charging structure, so that it becomes prohibitively expensive for the end user to consume excessive resources? And use the extra revenue earned from those users who are willing to pay for large consumption to increase the capacity.

      Now that's a good business idea.

    5. Re:Not defective by design by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This story is tagged "defectivebydesign", but what Apple wants to do is anything but.

      Operators have a hard limit on the amount of service they can actually provision. Allowing any and all devices to run willy nilly on the network would be certain death, even for the best-laid network. By throttling certain services, turning off certain capabilities, and allowing remote provisioning management, Apple is making sure that the device they are providing to users will work and continue to work on the network.

      This is a very important feature not only for the NOs, but also for businesses who would provide these phones to their field teams. Though, to be honest, restriction of features doesn't seem very patentable, at least there are other implementations that already exist. WinMo has had this since WM6.1, for example.

      You don't seem to understand the flawed business model that communications providers have been running with since the beginning. They never had enough capacity for their customers. They could, but they need to pay their CEO's $20M bonuses instead of grow their infrastructure. So as it stands today, there just isn't enough network for us, which is why when there are city/county/state-wide emergencies many calls do not go through.

      The only analogy I've been able to come up with that paints a good picture about why it's such a flawed model is what I call the Coca-Cola Principle. If Coca-Cola was suddenly able to reclaim the soda in the can I just purchased before it hit my lips, they could in effect resell my can of Coke before I could even drink it. This is exactly what every single communications provider has done. Comcast (unfortunately my home ISP) is perhaps one of the worst offenders of this. Having resold the bandwidth I paid for multiple hundreds of times. Eventually instead of providing me with what I have been paying for (unlimited broadband, as in no bandwidth cap), they reneged on their deal and put in a hard cap of 250gb/mo.

      You sound a lot like a corporatist to me. Oh noes those poor Network Operators need to cripple us to continue to be able to oversell their product/service. Well, what I say is, shitcan the CEOs taking these ridiculous sums of money and grow your infrastructure to meet YOUR promises as well as the economic DEMAND.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    6. Re:Not defective by design by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't seem to understand the flawed business model that communications providers have been running with since the beginning. They never had enough capacity for their customers. They could, but they need to pay their CEO's $20M bonuses instead of grow their infrastructure.

      Wow, only $20M to put in a $1.7Bn infrastructure upgrade, with $2.3Bn extra costs to implement it with strong integration to the current infrastructure and while prematurely terminating part of the current infrastructure before value's been realized on it? You must be the best business process accountant ever!

    7. Re:Not defective by design by Mascot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Operators have a hard limit on the amount of service they can actually provision. Allowing any and all devices to run willy nilly on the network would be certain death, even for the best-laid network.

      Do you have any examples of this? Apart from the non-standard system needed to support the iPhone's voice mail stuff, I can't figure out what you might be referring to.

    8. Re:Not defective by design by arielCo · · Score: 1

      By throttling certain services, turning off certain capabilities, and allowing remote provisioning management, Apple is making sure that the device they are providing to the users who aren't cut off will work and continue to work on the network.

      There, that's better

      --
      This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
    9. Re:Not defective by design by c0d3g33k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow - didn't take long for the apologists to come out of the woodwork. Here's what I'd like to see instead: A balanced comment that takes into consideration the needs of BOTH parties in a transaction/business relationship/whatever, rather than just the point of view of the party with the most power. I think we (i.e. "reasonable people") understand that one-sided relationships that favor one party over the other aren't optimal in a civilized society. But I can't quite understand the psychology behind those that rapidly spring to the defense of the powerful. Unless you're working for them and will directly benefit from maintaining or adding further imbalance to the status quo, WHY?

      In your particular example, I would counter that the real reason for crippling devices has much more to do with control for the purpose of maximizing income than control for technical reasons. The fear isn't that willy-nilly allowance of device capabilities will bring down the network, it's that it will allow customers to create their own solutions rather than paying a lucrative monthly fee for the officially sanctioned service that optimizes monetization of the service rather than optimizing the ability of people to do what they need/want to do. Use of the term "crippling" isn't accidental - it's an accurate description of what is being done.

    10. Re:Not defective by design by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      I am not in the business, but lower the $20m to $2m and you can probably "electrify" a couple more rural areas. People making $2m shouldn't be starving and we are getting more people on the grid.

    11. Re:Not defective by design by Aim+Here · · Score: 4, Funny

      The only analogy I've been able to come up with that paints a good picture about why it's such a flawed model is what I call the Coca-Cola Principle....

      No good! Don't understand! Your analogy has no cars!

    12. Re:Not defective by design by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      Really Slashdot? A troll comparing an executive bonuses to the cost of infrastructure is modded insightful and someone calling him on it is modded flamebait? I'm a socialist and these socialist drones disgust me.

    13. Re:Not defective by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      My last phone from T-Mobile is hardware capable of MP3 playback and ringtones. It is however flashed with T-Mobile firmware locking those features out *unless* the ringtone in question is purchased from T-Mobile.

      This has nothing whatsoever with them provisioning services and everything to do with them wanting me to pay extra for permission to use my own music files or pay extra for permission to use their music files.

    14. Re:Not defective by design by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      If you don't have enough network capacity to deal with the number of users, the solution would be to stop accepting new customers. Either that, or raise prices so either you can improve your network, such that it will handle the number of people using the network. The network does have limited capacity. This means that if your network is going beyond capacity, you need to expand the network, or kick some people off. Everybody complains when their ISP throttles their internet connection, or when they don't get the speeds they are supposed to due to an overloaded network. I don't see how this is any different.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    15. Re:Not defective by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The the slashdot groupthink would complain that they are reaping huge profits and overcharging customers for service that is sub-par. Hypocrisy runs rampant on /.

    16. Re:Not defective by design by multisync · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now that's a good business idea.

      Let's patent it!

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    17. Re:Not defective by design by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      $18M is pocket change. A few million dollars doesn't solve anything; how about you stop buying the occasional order-out pizza, because $18 for a meal one night a month is outrageous when you could make some chicken soup to last the family a whole week for twice as much (making it $5 instead of $18)! That whole $216/year saved is MASSIVE!

    18. Re:Not defective by design by CaptainZapp · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Can you then explain why, in Europe, I can chuck any SIM into any (not SIM locked) GSM device and it just bloody works?

      This phone crippling crap is performed by US carriers mostly in order to maximize their profits and there are no technical reasons whatsoever to restrict any capabilities of a certified GSM phone.

      Like it or not: A phone, which is crippled by design, like the iPhone, is defective by design.

      --
      ich bin der musikant

      mit taschenrechner in der hand

      kraftwerk

    19. Re:Not defective by design by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      The carriers would need to implement it pay as you go or there would be millions of people with 4 figure bills at the end of the month saying "WTF - I just downloaded this app for $0.99 and a month later I've got a $2,500 bill? FU carrier - see me in class action court!"

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    20. Re:Not defective by design by EvilNTUser · · Score: 2

      Are you kidding? Not only does trusting client side security always end up in disaster, but European cell phone networks seem to be doing just fine.

      Stop buying into the carriers' propaganda already and start buying your phones directly from the manufacturers. You'd never be in this mess if the average American had done so from the start. The world's largest cell phone manufacturer would prefer to not sell you crippled devices, and look how much US market share it's been rewarded with.

      --
      My Sig: SEGV
    21. Re:Not defective by design by sjames · · Score: 1

      Then they should limit the amount of service they provide and not what you do with that service. They should also quit advertising capabilities they have no intention of actually providing. In the case where their network is already overloaded, they should quit advertising PERIOD. After all, if they're overloaded they don't have room to add more customers and might be better off if a few leave. They can spend those advertising dollars on expanding their network capabilities instead.

      It's amazing, when ISPs and cellular providers talk to the FCC, their networks are stuffed to the rafters with packets and teetering on the edge of collapse due to the load, but within minutes of reading their claims to the FCC I inevitably see an advertisement where they offer more and faster service. One of those is a lie.

      Most of the restrictions are a scam anyway. They want to claim either unlimited or that the limits are large and then implement a lower constructive limit without technically committing fraud (or more properly stated, make the fraud more difficult to prove in court). Of course, in many cases the features they disable have nothing to do with use of resources and everything to do with making you pay more to get them to flip a bit for you and "generously allow" your phone to do something it is already capable of at no cost to them.

      How about they just offer a simple plan at a fair price and compete on quality and price for a change?

    22. Re:Not defective by design by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      What you are forgetting(or simply eliding) is that many of the features commonly crippled by carriers are ones that reduce load on the network and whose existence creates little or no network overhead.

      Little niceties like not being able to transfer/play media files from a computer onto a phone whose hardware can support it. That takes zero network resources, while the "Vcast" option involves considerable data transfer. Same thing with not being able to transfer pictures off the thing, in order to drive MMS revenues. Or disabling GPS in order to drive revenue for your own crippled nav-app.

      If this was about the health of their precious little networks, the only control they'd have to exert would be over the cellular modem portion of the device, and they'd be encouraging as much off-network data traffic as possible(USB/BT/WiFi) and local storage of things like map data. I'm not saying that that never happens; but, empirically, the clear direction of the crippling trend is in favor of more network load, not less.

    23. Re:Not defective by design by koiransuklaa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This reasoning just doesn't hold. Some netbooks already have 3G chips, I bet that will be a standard feature in all mobile computers in the near future. The result of this is that the network operators cannot control the clients.

      It should be blindingly obvious to anyone that the network has to cope with rogue devices. Assuming that wireless clients are all well-behaved is a phenomenally stupid idea.

      The "we're only protecting the user from excess charges" idea might hold water if the same companies weren't happy to send you insane roaming charges...

    24. Re:Not defective by design by Theaetetus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't seem to understand the flawed business model that communications providers have been running with since the beginning. They never had enough capacity for their customers. They could, but they need to pay their CEO's $20M bonuses instead of grow their infrastructure. So as it stands today, there just isn't enough network for us, which is why when there are city/county/state-wide emergencies many calls do not go through.

      That's not a flawed business model. You can meet 90% of your customer's needs for X dollars, and 99% of your customer's needs for 10X dollars, and 99.9% of your customer's needs for 100X dollars, and 99.99% of your customer's needs for 1000X dollars... see the problem? Increasing capacity to a point where you can fully satisfy state-wide emergencies is incredibly expensive, and leaves half of the network unused at regular times. That is a flawed business model, which is why it's not done by any infrastructure provider - there are brownouts in summer heat waves, there are water shortages in droughts, there are network shortages in emergencies, etc. This is the trade-off we make in exchange for not having $5000/month cell phone bills.

    25. Re:Not defective by design by sjames · · Score: 1

      That wouldn't be a problem if they gave people what they REALLY want, a warning that they are about to incur excessive charges! They carefully avoid letting people know about that before it's too late and then act mystified when people complain about 5 figure phone bills.

      Besides, I thought the whole point of the App Store dane brammage was to make sure iPhone users never end up with a rogue app.

    26. Re:Not defective by design by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      It was ever thus, telecoms operators have always tried to maintain a tight grip on what devices can connect to their networks. And I think they are right to do so, allowing unrestricted software access to their network infrastructure might well be disastrous. Most computers have to connect via a modem, but the iPhone is the modem, so allowing software to access the hardware directly would remove this layer of abstraction and security.

      We have rules about the capabilities of devices that can run on our roads, this is not much different.

    27. Re:Not defective by design by gmack · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Congratulations your right on the money. My last phone from Telus disabled file transfers over USB meaning that pictures taken on the phone had to be emailed to me for a fee rather than just transferred for free. Thankfully Bitpim fixed that for me with the Motorola equivalent of a registry change. This isn't at all about reducing use of resources, it's about maximizing the use of resources that the phone company can bill you for.

    28. Re:Not defective by design by CodenameCain · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more. The problem with all these huge companies is that greed permeates from the top executives down to the business practices they implement. Stop paying execs millions of dollars and reinvest that money in the company and suddenly a smaller, reasonable service charge to the customer can make the company profitable. And guess what, the first company to do that wins, because everyone will move to use that service.

    29. Re:Not defective by design by sjames · · Score: 1

      At 20 million per executive per year plus the golden parachutes, it does add up.

    30. Re:Not defective by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is making sure that the device they are providing to users will work and continue to work on the network.

      Did I miss something? When did Apple start managing cellular networks? Ideally, network management would be handled by the owner of that network.

    31. Re:Not defective by design by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1
      Your logic explains, of course, why my current phone is crippled in the following two ways:
      1. Always returns CARRIER ERROR without actually dialing a number for ATDT commands sent over bluetooth (which would use the same service as a voice call).
      2. Always returns ERROR for any attempt to sent or receive SMS messages over bluetooth (e.g. compose a message on my laptop and send it with the phone), even with the extended AT commands that Nokia lists in the phone's technical documents.

      There is no reason for either of those features to be disabled -- they use the same services that my phone already receives! The only reason I can think of for this sort of crippling is an attempt to squeeze more money out of me and force me to pay for additional services or accessories for my phone; too bad, because I would rather go without those features than support that strategy.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    32. Re:Not defective by design by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      Right, and the PATRIOT act will only be used to protect us from terr'ists (sorry, pdf).

      More accurately, if Verizon is any judge, it will be used to block access to, or remove features that would otherwise allow users access to cheaper markets. Much like Verizon's disabling of bluetooth OBEX profiles to prevent you from sending your own ringtones to your phone, and instead pushing toward they're exorbitantly overpriced ones, where 30 seconds or less of "music" costs as much as an entire album by the same artist at a used CD store.

      --

      Question everything

    33. Re:Not defective by design by ajs · · Score: 1

      Wow - didn't take long for the apologists to come out of the woodwork. Here's what I'd like to see instead: A balanced comment

      It's hard to get much more meta than, here's the type of comment I'd like to see someone post on Slashdot about the article about the patent about the capability to limit services in upcoming devices. Wow, just wow.

      Anyway, your core point appears to confuse service providers with utilities and overall confuse a response that takes physical infrastructure into account for a defense of corporatism. It's also a rather silly point in that you seem to feel that users have some inherent right to use any feature of any device they like on cell networks.

      On the Internet, you'd have a fair point because the Internet is purely a connectivity medium where providers simply offer a way for your local infrastructure to talk to that of other parties. On cell networks you are being offered a very specific set of services which use their communications infrastructure. Providers that don't wish to provide specific features really have no requirement to do so, nor should they. If you want to use the network however you like, you can use VOIP and play with whatever features you wish.

    34. Re:Not defective by design by Disgruntled+Goats · · Score: 1

      Sure it adds up, but to nothing even remotely approaching a few percent of what an infrastructure upgrade costs.

    35. Re:Not defective by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow - didn't take long for the apologists to come out of the woodwork.

      apple-ogists?

    36. Re:Not defective by design by No+Grand+Plan · · Score: 1

      The slashdot groupthink would complain that they are reaping huge profits and overcharging customers for service that is sub-par.

      That's not happening now (the reaping and the complaining)?

    37. Re:Not defective by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is horseshit. A properly designed network can handle a load without failing, not to mention that some of the features disabled are things like GPS. GPS presents no network load to a carrier, it's just a great thing to force people to pay extra for.

    38. Re:Not defective by design by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to understand the flawed business model that communications providers have been running with since the beginning. They never had enough capacity for their customers. They could, but they need to pay their CEO's $20M bonuses instead of grow their infrastructure.

      Wow, only $20M to put in a $1.7Bn infrastructure upgrade, with $2.3Bn extra costs to implement it with strong integration to the current infrastructure and while prematurely terminating part of the current infrastructure before value's been realized on it? You must be the best business process accountant ever!

      Wow nothing. You have to try really fucking hard to make it appear that these companies are spending properly. It's blatantly clear to anyone using these communications network that something is fundamentally wrong, and to make the comment you did leads me to believe you're simply a corporatist with a hidden agenda.

      http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=CMCSA

      I don't know how much you really know about finances, but I fucking dare you to tell me that these numbers show they can't afford to grow their infrastructure to meet the demand for it.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    39. Re:Not defective by design by zrq · · Score: 1

      This is a very important feature not only for the NOs, but also for businesses who would provide these phones to their field teams.

      .... just not that good for the actual users.

    40. Re:Not defective by design by FireFury03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      telecoms operators have always tried to maintain a tight grip on what devices can connect to their networks.

      No. US telecoms operators have always tried to maintain a tight grip on what can be connected to their networks. This is not the case elsewhere in the world (although it is notable that with the advent of the iPhone, operators elsewhere in the world are starting to embrace anti-consumer ideas such as device-exclusivity contracts and refusal to unlock off-contract devices - one can only hope that the regulators get their finger out and put a stop to this).

      And I think they are right to do so, allowing unrestricted software access to their network infrastructure might well be disastrous. Most computers have to connect via a modem, but the iPhone is the modem, so allowing software to access the hardware directly would remove this layer of abstraction and security.

      You clearly don't understand how mobile phones are architected. A smartphone is basically a palmtop computer and a GSM/WCDMA modem in the same box. The computer part of it is _not_ (logically) the same device as the radiomodem, any more than a computer with a built in modem is. The "computer" side of a smartphone generally talks to the radio side through an interface that basically behaves like a serial port - i.e. it is controlled by standard AT commands.

      Allowing a smartphone to run arbitrary software is no more a security risk than allowing a computer with a 3G dongle to run arbitrary software because the logical separation between the computer and the radio is still there.

      We have rules about the capabilities of devices that can run on our roads, this is not much different.

      Last time I checked, there were no laws that claim your car is unfit to be used on the road if you're using a third party stereo, or if you're using BP petrol instead of Shell. But these sorts of things are essentially what a lot of the restrictions are all about. Placing restrictions on what the _radio_ part of the phone is allowed to do is fair enough, but placing restrictions on what the user can do with the computer part of a device isn't acceptable to a lot of people.

    41. Re:Not defective by design by srh2o · · Score: 1

      Allowing any and all devices to run willy nilly on the network would be certain death, even for the best-laid network.

      That's the same thing AT&T said to Carterphone back in the day. The more things change...

    42. Re:Not defective by design by sjames · · Score: 1

      They can take the rest from the 500 billion in taxpayer dollars they have been granted over the years that were supposed to go towards infrastructure.

      Though really, excessive executive compensation could probably pay 10% of the upgrade costs each year. That is certainly a significant figure.

    43. Re:Not defective by design by AdamThor · · Score: 1

      One might be concerned about executive pay, or about infrastructure investment, but this story isn't really about either of those. It's about control.

      Save executive pay to invest in infrastructure? Who cares? Available bandwidth isn't why I can't load user created ringtones onto my phone.

      Both Apple and cellular carriers have a history of wresting away user control. I'm not inclined to believe this patent isn't just a continuation of this policy.

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    44. Re:Not defective by design by sjames · · Score: 1

      Fully agreed. The resource use is just a tiny part of the picture though Apple and the cell providers would like us to believe that it is the whole issue. I would also like to know why the cell providers advertise so aggressively if their networks really can't handle any more load. Surely more people using resources will precipitate the crash they keep quacking about to the FCC?!?

    45. Re:Not defective by design by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I didn't make that argument; I made the argument that $20M executive pays add up to a tiny fraction of the money they need to execute those sorts of projects. If your business turns a $1M profit a year, you'll salary yourself somewhere below $1M; if it turns a $1000M profit a year, why the hell not throw $100M at the executives and throw $900M at the projects? 5 executives, $20M each, sure. Now we're talking about market-dominance telcos that turn well more than a billion a year before projects ("Operating Costs" "Expansion Costs" etc), that $20M is like ... pocket change. It's NOT the spending problem.

    46. Re:Not defective by design by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to understand the flawed business model that communications providers have been running with since the beginning. They never had enough capacity for their customers. They could, but they need to pay their CEO's $20M bonuses instead of grow their infrastructure. So as it stands today, there just isn't enough network for us, which is why when there are city/county/state-wide emergencies many calls do not go through.

      That's not a flawed business model. You can meet 90% of your customer's needs for X dollars, and 99% of your customer's needs for 10X dollars, and 99.9% of your customer's needs for 100X dollars, and 99.99% of your customer's needs for 1000X dollars... see the problem? Increasing capacity to a point where you can fully satisfy state-wide emergencies is incredibly expensive, and leaves half of the network unused at regular times. That is a flawed business model, which is why it's not done by any infrastructure provider - there are brownouts in summer heat waves, there are water shortages in droughts, there are network shortages in emergencies, etc. This is the trade-off we make in exchange for not having $5000/month cell phone bills.

      I suppose all that is fine if you intend on stagnating until something far superior and necessary blows you right out of the competition. It's almost 2010. We're trying to globalize Earth, and part of that is building a communications network that allows for ALL 6.5 billion people to communicate at once. I think it's time these corporatist fuckwads stop thinking about their pocketbooks and start complying with real world demands or face obsolescence. The stockholders can still make money while the company grows.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    47. Re:Not defective by design by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I didn't make that argument; I made the argument that $20M executive pays add up to a tiny fraction of the money they need to execute those sorts of projects. If your business turns a $1M profit a year, you'll salary yourself somewhere below $1M; if it turns a $1000M profit a year, why the hell not throw $100M at the executives and throw $900M at the projects? 5 executives, $20M each, sure. Now we're talking about market-dominance telcos that turn well more than a billion a year before projects ("Operating Costs" "Expansion Costs" etc), that $20M is like ... pocket change. It's NOT the spending problem.

      You don't seem to understand AT ALL why these CEO's get those bonuses. Epic fail.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    48. Re:Not defective by design by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      I have another suggestion. Maybe these cellular companies need to stop being a bunch of ass fucks. I know, I know, I'm expecting too much. But a man can dream, right?

    49. Re:Not defective by design by brkello · · Score: 1

      You are making me feel a little sick. Seriously, repeat what you are saying and apply that to the Internet. You can make the same argument.

      It's supply and demand. Your customers are demanding more bandwidth because these devices are being used differently. This is where this market is going....it is no longer just texts and phone calls. Instead of screwing your customers over, maybe you should be upgrading your networks as fast as possible.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    50. Re:Not defective by design by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      This story is tagged "defectivebydesign", but what Apple wants to do is anything but.

      Operators have a hard limit on the amount of service they can actually provision. Allowing any and all devices to run willy nilly on the network would be certain death, even for the best-laid network. By throttling certain services, turning off certain capabilities, and allowing remote provisioning management, Apple is making sure that the device they are providing to users will work and continue to work on the network.

      This is a very important feature not only for the NOs, but also for businesses who would provide these phones to their field teams. Though, to be honest, restriction of features doesn't seem very patentable, at least there are other implementations that already exist. WinMo has had this since WM6.1, for example.

      Conveniently, this will also allow carriers to restrict users instead of expanding their infrastructure where possible.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    51. Re:Not defective by design by brkello · · Score: 1

      It depends on your perspective. It is going to one person, and to one person, that is not pocket change.

      Obviously, applying it to upgrade infrastructure on a global scale, and it seems like a small amount. But the point is still valid. These companies are sitting on their profits instead of really pushing to upgrade their infrastructures in meaningful ways. This culture we have where it is ok to pay some useless twat millions of dollars to play golf with congressmen needs to change. Maybe if these companies would pay their CEOs less, hire more people to upgrade the infrastructure (and the purchases involved with that), our economy and the global economy would be in a lot better shape.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    52. Re:Not defective by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

      When Verizon disables the ability for my BlackBerry to use the onboard GPS with third party apps (i.e. Goggle Maps) to try and force me into paying 10.95 a month for Verizon's own GPS mapping software it's not keeping their network secure, it's being greedy.

      If Sony bought GM and started making car stereos that only played music released by Sony record labels, they would be laughed out of the conference room.

    53. Re:Not defective by design by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      They're profit sharing. The thing is, they get a huge amount of money and sink a lot of it into projects and what's left (banked) is profit. If they decided, hey, let's not create a totally new post-3G network this year ... they'd have many billions left over and lose 45% of that in taxes, so they burn it off in projects and keep 100% of it (in newly developed infrastructure). However these efforts cost money and take time.

    54. Re:Not defective by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You lease a car for 2 years. The company that leased your car also leases it to someone else & tell you to share, but you both still pay the same price.

    55. Re:Not defective by design by SchroedingersCat · · Score: 1

      Correction: WinMo has had this since Smartphone 2002

    56. Re:Not defective by design by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 1
    57. Re:Not defective by design by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      >> Apple wants to do is anything but.

      Pass me some of what you are smoking.

      On second thought - no, just keep it to yourself.

    58. Re:Not defective by design by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      The personnel isn't the bottleneck in upgrading the infrastructure. You can hire about $18,000,000 ... 180 new $100k/year salaried employees to implement a new infrastructure. It's vastly cheaper to pay a contractor to do the work, since you'll pay $200k for 1/4 of the time (==half the labor) and you're not hiring temps who do shitty work, plus you probably don't exactly need 180 people to do this (the personnel load increases and decreases to match the job).

      The problem is getting all the legal, the permits, then the hardware, then the equipment (leased) to install the hardware, the air conditioning units, the racking units, the buildings, the lines run (power lines, we need an extra 3 phases in this building to run that many racks of shit...), etc, all costs a lot more than the personnel load you need to continuously support it.

      Basically once the hardware's in place, we've freed up say $5 billion minus some $30 million ($0.03 million) to maintain it-- which probably goes to an external contractor for some parts where we don't want to maintain the tools and don't want to deal with either flexible hiring (hire you, use you, fire you) or having an employee around that's useless for 9 months out of the year but still is here just in case there's a problem. Then it's on to the next multi-billion-dollar project...

      Also, CEOs invest their money and allow banks to invest their money (know what a savings account actually does?). The people with hundreds of millions of dollars just laying around are, as a matter of fact, driving the global economy as long as that money's laying in some sort of paper investment and not stuffed in a briefcase somewhere. They're the people that allow small businesses to actually exist, and grow, and become large businesses; the money you stick in the bank eventually lands in some $300,000 small business loan that starts a local restaurant (or maybe one on the other side of the world).

      And as a final point, I'd like to see you run IBM. Be mindful that if you fuck something up, thousands of people will lose their jobs (yeah, there's multi-thousand body staffed offices all over, from headquarters to business centers to the Tokyo Research Lab), the company will lose tons of money (slowing the cash flow of the global economy), and inflation may occur (making poor people poorer and rich people slightly annoyed if anything). Oh, and it's not easy... even golf isn't easy.

    59. Re:Not defective by design by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      Wow - didn't take long for the apologists to come out of the woodwork. Here's what I'd like to see instead: A balanced comment

      It's hard to get much more meta than, here's the type of comment I'd like to see someone post on Slashdot about the article about the patent about the capability to limit services in upcoming devices. Wow, just wow.

      Now that you point it out, I'm quite proud of my uber-metaness. I see your wows and raise you a "wow - thanks, dude".

      Anyway, your core point appears to confuse service providers with utilities and overall confuse a response that takes physical infrastructure into account for a defense of corporatism. It's also a rather silly point in that you seem to feel that users have some inherent right to use any feature of any device they like on cell networks.

      *snip*

      Your argument goes out the window since the 'crippling' of devices quite often includes features of the device that have nothing at all to do with the physical infrastructure of the network and the impact cellular devices might have on them.

      GPS would be a good example. If the device is passively determining it's GPS coordinates anyway, how exactly does installing software of one's own choosing that uses that data to display locally installed maps impact the network? It doesn't - it impacts the ability of the provider to sell you their own expensive geolocation solution, whether you want it or not.

      How does installing personal data such as photos or music files on the device impact the network? It doesn't - it impacts the ability of the provider to force you to use their "upload photos to your phone" service or their "music store".

      Same with ringtones - recording myself playing a guitar and installing on my device doesn't impact the network - but it impacts the providers ability to sell me expensive ringtones.

      What about Wi-Fi? Using my device to connect to my home wi-fi network to do messaging, data upload/download or use any number of software services in the cloud doesn't impact their network at all. It does impact the ability of the provider to limit such activities to their network for which they levy a hefty monthly charge.

      Prove to me that the crippling of capabilities is limited to features that demonstrably impact the integrity of the network, and I will gladly grant you your point. The problem is, there are too many examples of capabilities which are disabled that have no such impact, so your point is diminished to the point of insignificance.

      Here's what really happens: Devices are designed and manufactured with features and capabilities that people find desirable. These features and capabilities are breathlessly hyped in reviews and adverts for the upcoming device. This gets people interested in the new features and capabilities the device has to offer that their current one lacks. Then, the actual device that ends up in the hands of people has those very features and capabilities disable by the provider unless you subscribe to the monthly service, even though this isn't necessary as the capabilities of said device are independent of the provider's network (or don't have an impact beyond affecting a source of revenue).

      So I stand by my original point - I want to see less apologism and more balanced consideration of the issues. And a pink pony that can fly.

    60. Re:Not defective by design by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I also use T-Mobile, and MP3 ringtones work just fine on my phone, transferred via bluetooth from my laptop, no less! (cheap Nokia of some sort, came free with service).

      --
      Stop! Dremel time!
    61. Re:Not defective by design by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 1

      It's as if your local petrol/gas station were to offer you "unlimited mileage" fuel contracts for a set monthly fee. This fee would be proportional to your vehicles consumption rate (mpg). However, they only receive a set amount of fuel from the refinery each month, but they oversell these "unlimited" fuel contracts based on average consumption, not reserving enough for each person to drive much farther than their calculated average. They then start watering down the fuel when their supply is low (causing serious performance issues with everyone's vehicles), or alternatively, they later tell you that what they meant by "unlimited" was actually only 1000 miles a month, after which you get no fuel, or have to pay 10 times the normal cost per litre/gallon.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    62. Re:Not defective by design by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      You can meet 90% of your customer's needs for X dollars, and 99% of your customer's needs for 10X dollars, and 99.9% of your customer's needs for 100X dollars, and 99.99% of your customer's needs for 1000X dollars... see the problem?

      The problem is your nonsensical view of the situation. It's not a matter of serving 99% of the people vs 99.9% - that's a straw man. No, it's about companies that take billions in profits yet spend millions on improving infrastructure. Then they whine about how their under-funded infrastructure is overloaded, so they jack up rates and/or implement caps after advertising unlimited access.

    63. Re:Not defective by design by afidel · · Score: 1

      $yM x number of "senior" executives = $$$$$. I know telecom isn't nearly as bad as the financial sector but there are still a lot of people making more per year then the average citizen will make in a lifetime.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    64. Re:Not defective by design by nigelo · · Score: 1

      Though really, excessive executive compensation could probably pay 10% of the upgrade costs each year. That is certainly a significant figure.

      *citation needed.

      --
      *Still* negative function...
    65. Re:Not defective by design by babyrat · · Score: 1

      Though, to be honest, restriction of features doesn't seem very patentable, at least there are other implementations that already exist

      So my new method of generating electricity via cold fusion is not patentable because there are already other implementations of power generation?

    66. Re:Not defective by design by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Ford has like 8 senior executives. If you divide their entire pay by all the Ford employees, it's like 21 cent salary raise per year for everyone.

    67. Re:Not defective by design by sjames · · Score: 1

      Guessing at 200 million in executive compensation (including subsidiaries) and 2 billion in upgrades, that's 10%. It's a rough but reasonable guess.

    68. Re:Not defective by design by indros13 · · Score: 1

      Two thoughts:
      1) This is a great explanation of why bandwidth-constrained networks have limits and why a wireless/cable/DSL network can never really offer unlimited service.
      2) I'm not sure if FiOS operates under such escalating cost structure. My understanding is that the capacity of the cable is ridiculous, and that it's only on the ends that you have to upgrade.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    69. Re:Not defective by design by cjb658 · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to understand the flawed business model that communications providers have been running with since the beginning. They never had enough capacity for their customers. They could, but they need to pay their CEO's $20M bonuses instead of grow their infrastructure.

      Wow, only $20M to put in a $1.7Bn infrastructure upgrade, with $2.3Bn extra costs to implement it with strong integration to the current infrastructure and while prematurely terminating part of the current infrastructure before value's been realized on it? You must be the best business process accountant ever!

      He probably got a government bailout

    70. Re:Not defective by design by trickyD1ck · · Score: 0

      Insightful? My iPhone is just as locked in Germany as it would be in the US.

    71. Re:Not defective by design by Snufu · · Score: 1

      $18M

      Where can I get me some 'o these "Megadollars"?

    72. Re:Not defective by design by afidel · · Score: 1

      Ford's top 6 executives made collectively over $64M last year and they have 300k employees = $213 per employee, but that is beside the point. I never mentioned Ford, I talked about the telecom sector. The top executives at AT&T listed here made $186M, slash that to a couple million and you can pay for your $B infrastructure project in 5-6 years. Do you really think the company would be any less well run if the top brass only made a few million a year instead of upwards of $80M?

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    73. Re:Not defective by design by garote · · Score: 1

      Well, if you wait long enough, technology may provide you with a pink pony that can fly.
      The rest ... well ... keep waiting.

    74. Re:Not defective by design by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      I guess, then, that you hate what Intel is doing to stop, via hardware measures, any kind of code overflow attack. Should a hacker have the "right" to crash your media player so he can do a remote code execution attack?

    75. Re:Not defective by design by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      Oh, I agtree with you there. We should have that kind of system in the U.S. But the fact is, we don't. And oddly enough, the fact that most new and innovative phones come out with exclusivity deals for a period of time in the U.S., at least, is not really Apple's doing. It COULD have insisted on that, but then its prices would have had to stay up in the hundreds of dollars. It wouldn't have been a year later that a $200 model would come out, nor another year later a $99 model wouldn't have come out. They'd still be selling a $399-$599 range of models, with sales many hundreds of thousands, or millions, less.

      I'd love it if the US industry functioned like the Internet, with all the carriers required to hand over signals from other providers for free, and all of them cooperating on common standards. We have too many gauges on our wireless railroad. But that's the function of the FCC, not of one consumer handset company, no matter how popular it's becoming. In fact, the iPhone has spurred some congressional action about limiting these exclusivity deals.

      Verizon is an interesting case. They have a very good wireless network, the vestiges of the most punkass wired phone network in the U.S., but they've adopted a deadend standard. Maybe the FCC can pressure the industry to become interoperable in a given time, but it's totally beyond one equipment manufacturer's capability.

    76. Re:Not defective by design by FireFury03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess, then, that you hate what Intel is doing to stop, via hardware measures, any kind of code overflow attack. Should a hacker have the "right" to crash your media player so he can do a remote code execution attack?

      Huh? How does that commend have *anything* to do with my post?

      But anyway, I'll bite - a remote execution attacker does not have any "right" to execute code on my computer. In fact, doing so is a crime, as laid out by the Computer Misuse Act. Conversely, my phone is owned by me - I paid for it, I get to do what I like with it.

    77. Re:Not defective by design by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Well yeah, because fuck that, I'm moving to a bank where they'll pay me $80M to run their shit. Running a small business with 1000 employees will net me $2M/year, and it's basically a cakewalk. Running a huge telco, standard oil (Exxon-Mobil), or Ford's giant mess is ... hard. Very hard. It's tough building up a small business; but when you get up there, everyone's mean and aggressive and trying to screw you. Tiny little mistakes cost billions of dollars; the slightest shift in public opinion can either hand us a $40Bn infrastructure upgrade (stock goes up 3 points, issue more stock! Do a buy-back when the market's unfavorable again...) or push those plans back 30 years... damn.

  7. Leave Apple Alone! by cjfs · · Score: 5, Funny

    They're just patenting this defect so they can sue anyone that would try to harm us.

    1. Re:Leave Apple Alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a Tru(TM) Fanboi!

    2. Re:Leave Apple Alone! by cjfs · · Score: 2, Funny

      Spoken like a Tru(TM) Fanboi!

      No, apparently I'm a windows fanboi this week.

      I'll forgive your misjudgment though, since someone modded the Apple comment insightful.

    3. Re:Leave Apple Alone! by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      Sadly, I think we need an option to mod posts as sarcastic.

    4. Re:Leave Apple Alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a Tru(TM) Fanboi!

      No, apparently I'm a windows fanboi this week.

      I'll forgive your misjudgment though, since someone modded the Apple comment insightful.

      Haha Mac consumers trashtalking Windows consumers and vice versa. I know it's old but this is truly like running for the special olympics.

  8. ridiculous... but good by jipn4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple and any inventor should be ashamed to put their name on such a crappy patent; there is not a bit on an idea in there.

    However, if this serves to keep others from implementing carrier-based restrictions, I'm all for it: implementing this is going to hurt Apple and help everybody else.

    1. Re:ridiculous... but good by LordKronos · · Score: 3, Informative

      However, if this serves to keep others from implementing carrier-based restrictions, I'm all for it: implementing this is going to hurt Apple and help everybody else.

      That was exactly my first thought. However, you know it's not going to go down like that, because everyone else is going to want the feature. Instead, all the phones will end up with the feature anyway, and you'll just pay more for Apple's licensing fee.

    2. Re:ridiculous... but good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    3. Re:ridiculous... but good by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 1

      THIS got modded Insightful?!

      1> The patent isn't on the idea of restricting phones, it's on a specific method.

      2> No, it doesn't stop carriers from placing restrictions. Nothing ever will.

      I guess actually understanding an issue before commenting is beyond the free-beer-trolls.

    4. Re:ridiculous... but good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A crappy patent from crapple. What did you expect?

    5. Re:ridiculous... but good by jipn4 · · Score: 1

      1> The patent isn't on the idea of restricting phones, it's on a specific method.

      Like all patents, it has to pretend that it is on a specific method. If you had actually bothered to read it, you'd see that it isn't.

      I guess actually understanding an issue before commenting is beyond the free-beer-trolls.

      Yeah, you should take that to heart.

  9. Are They Really Unable to Cap You? by eldavojohn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The patent component of this news aside, we've seen iPhones turned into web servers, iPhones running PHP and Apache and even playing reduced frame rate WoW on your iPhone. So, when we saw these articles it is easily suspected that they could be an abuse to the network. But how could an Apache server on my iPhone be anymore of an abuse than an Apache server on my home computer connected to Comcast? I mean, the networks are probably different but can't they institute a cap and just let my phone slow to a crawl due to limited bandwidth while everyone else doesn't even notice my usage? Are the cell phone networks really that helpless in that they cannot cap usages on cell phones?

    Either there's something about the potential abuse of cell phones on networks or Apple just wants another patent. Probably both.

    All I ask of Apple (or anyone really) is that -- if they implement this patent on a phone -- they advertise this "feature" and stay true to the numbers of what you can expect out of your potentially crippled device. My biggest problem with my ISP is that they flat out lie to me about what I'm paying for. When I see things like "unlimited data plan" on cell phones I can only laugh ...

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Are They Really Unable to Cap You? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      Are the cell phone networks really that helpless in that they cannot cap usages on cell phones?

      You've obviously never heard of that little group called the Federal Communications Commission http://fcc.gov/

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    2. Re:Are They Really Unable to Cap You? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      I mean, the networks are probably different but can't they institute a cap and just let my phone slow to a crawl due to limited bandwidth while everyone else doesn't even notice my usage? Are the cell phone networks really that helpless in that they cannot cap usages on cell phones?

      No they can't. There's no way the network can prevent your phone from sending as much data as it wants. It can refuse to pass all of that data on to the internet, but by then it's too late, your phone has already taken up the wireless bandwidth. The only way to throttle your iPhone's "upload" usage is to put software on the iPhone that does it. They can throttle your download usage, but that would have little effect on a web server app.

    3. Re:Are They Really Unable to Cap You? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how could an Apache server on my iPhone be anymore of an abuse than an Apache server on my home computer connected to Comcast?

      That's just it. Your HOME internet account isn't supposed to be hosting services like web, mail, etc. It isn't uncommon for an ISP to request that you disable your web-server, or convert to a commercial account.

    4. Re:Are They Really Unable to Cap You? by FireFury03 · · Score: 3, Informative

      No they can't. There's no way the network can prevent your phone from sending as much data as it wants. It can refuse to pass all of that data on to the internet, but by then it's too late, your phone has already taken up the wireless bandwidth. The only way to throttle your iPhone's "upload" usage is to put software on the iPhone that does it. They can throttle your download usage, but that would have little effect on a web server app.

      Umm... Since the radio bandwidth allocation is mediated by the network, not the phone, there is nothing stopping the network simply not giving you that bandwidth. For example, in WCDMA the network hands out one or more PRNs to the device on the fly, to meet the device's bandwidth demands. The more PRNs you have allocated to you, the more bandwidth you get. Of course, the more devices there are wanting to use bandwidth, the more thinly those PRNs are spread between them. So if you have a misbehaving device, the network can simply stop allocating (as many) PRNs to it. Of course, whether they have the infrastructure in place to exercise this amount of control over the network is another question, but from a technical standpoint there is no reason why they can't do this.

      So sure, the network can't ask your IP stack to stop chucking out UDP packets (or various other protocols) as fast, but it can throttle you in the data link layer.

      As far as your web server example goes, that _is_ trivial to throttle at the IP level anywhere along the route - start chucking away a proportion of the TCP packets and the TCP stack will throttle back the transfer rate.

    5. Re:Are They Really Unable to Cap You? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      ...For example, in WCDMA the network hands out one or more PRNs to the device on the fly, to meet the device's bandwidth demands. The more PRNs you have allocated to you, the more bandwidth you get.

      OK, I'm happy to be corrected, you sound like you know a lot more than me about it.

  10. I use the iPhone Configuration Utility... by Shag · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...on my own personal iPhone. Why? Well, it's easier than remembering how to hook it up to the 5 Google calendars I need it to sync and edit...

    Yeah. Just one phone. I don't have to be a big corporation to find tools like that useful.

    This makes me evil, right?

    --
    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    1. Re:I use the iPhone Configuration Utility... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No, getting to operate a telescope in Hawaii does~

      Lucky* bastard~

      *By luck, I of course mean hard work.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  11. Effectively a hardware license? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

    So, I didn't buy my iPieceOfShit, I iLicensed it? How is this even legal?

    --
    "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    1. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      No, you licensed access to the network you connect to with the iPhone. Also they COULD simply lease a cell phone to you (like a cable modem).

    2. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      No, you licensed access to the network you connect to with the iPhone. Also they COULD simply lease a cell phone to you (like a cable modem).

      I am not a lawyer but maybe the Antitrust case against Ma Bell makes it illegal to do that? Also, I'm fairly certain that the FCC remains the ultimate authority for disabling communications devices, as in, only the Federal Government has the authority to do what Apple is trying to do, under currently established law.

      Sure the service provider can cut you off for non-payment or violations of their TOS, but for example, Motorola would face prosecution if they decided to turn off my phone.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    3. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      No, you licensed access to the network you connect to with the iPhone.

      Since the device vendor has no idea what your contract is with the network, they have no business restricting what you can and can't do with your own device.

    4. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      But they CAN create a restriction mechanism that the network can use to send signals to your device saying "hey, don't fucking do that."

    5. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      No, you can always bring your own hardware. But you could lease one for very, very cheap ($10/mo cable modem vs what was a $200 device at the time, but is now $80 and prone to last a few decent years instead of 6 months...).

    6. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      But they CAN create a restriction mechanism that the network can use to send signals to your device saying "hey, don't fucking do that."

      They can, but that would be a pretty stupid design since there's no way for the network to guarantee my device will honour the signal, because it is my device and I can make it do whatever the hell I like. It's about as sensible as creating a firewall that politely asks an attacking botnet to please stop.

    7. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      No, you can always bring your own hardware. But you could lease one for very, very cheap ($10/mo cable modem vs what was a $200 device at the time, but is now $80 and prone to last a few decent years instead of 6 months...).

      You can't lease telephones. If I remember that is why the US DoJ broke up the Ma Bell monopoly. I could be wrong. I know of no home or cellphone providers that lease you the equipment.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    8. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It's about as sensible as creating a firewall to tell devices not to do $X when we have an administrative protocol like UPnP or such; it eases load on our firewall, and the 5% of devices that misbehave can be blocked forcefully (still costing 5% network and CPU load on the firewall). Hostile environments are best navigated with both a carrot and a stick.

    9. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Ma Bell was requiring you to use only their sanctioned equipment, and forbidding you from bringing your own. That was what was illegal. I'm pretty sure you can supply a leasing option, if it's totally fine to bring your own open-competition equipment.

    10. Re:Effectively a hardware license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My mother-in-law lives in Decatur Illinois. Up until last year she leased her phone from AT&T.
      30 years.

  12. I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by erroneus · · Score: 1

    It is not "their" network. It is hosted on the radio frequencies effectively leased to them by the FCC which is ultimately owned by "we the people."

    With all that said, it is within the rights of the property owners to determine how the leased property can be used. I find that it is past time that the FCC or even congress enact rules that prevent carriers from harming consumers in much the same way that Bell Telephone abused consumers.

    Apple, it is not for the carriers to say what specific services are enabled on what devices so long as the devices are compatible with the network. (Compatibility can be defined broadly so I would also urge that this is defined appropriately as well.)

    It is inappropriate for wireless carriers to determine what specific devices are inappropriate for use on a publicly owned radio frequency resource just as it would be inappropriate for any one entity to determine what specific vehicles are permitted to travel on public thoroughfares. While certain general prohibitions should be appropriately directed, they should be enforced to by a regulating body, not by carriers who often use such restrictions as leverage to sell other services.

    1. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It is not "their" network. It is hosted on the radio frequencies effectively leased to them by the FCC which is ultimately owned by "we the people."

      You're retarded. The FCC leased them access to radio frequencies; they, however, have their own hardware for everything else. It reaches the cell phone, comes down a wire, to their CO, and enters the POTS just like your land line. This is like saying you own your phone line, so your ISP shouldn't be able to restrict what you can send over YOUR network when you dial in.. i.e. you're retarded.

    2. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by erroneus · · Score: 1

      I know... I shouldn't respond to this but I will anyway. Without the radio frequency lease, they don't have a network. It is the most critical component of their business operating model. The FCC is the governing body for that component.

      The same arguments could have been and likely were offered as excuses why Bell Telephone should be able to dictate what equipment is used on the phone networks and in fact, it is demonstrable that they owned a great deal more physical aspects of their phone network than wireless carriers and they still failed on the grounds that the interests of the public and those of other businesses and innovation were being harmed by Bell's practices. What Bell Telephone didn't "own" was the right-of-way to operate their network as a monopoly. And since they were ruled an abusive monopoly, they were broken up.

      I won't say you are retarded in response, but I will say you fail to appreciate history and how precedent may be applied to present and future cases like these.

    3. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I know... I shouldn't respond to this but I will anyway. Without the radio frequency lease, they don't have a network. It is the most critical component of their business operating model. The FCC is the governing body for that component.

      Oh okay, I get you. The Sun is a universal resource and owned by all of us, so anything sunlight falls on should automatically belong to We, the People, and not be so-called "Private Property" bullshit that Corporate Greed wants you to believe in.

      Thanks for clearing that up.

    4. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 1

      It is not "their" network. It is hosted on the radio frequencies effectively leased to them by the FCC which is ultimately owned by "we the people."

      With all that said, it is within the rights of the property owners to determine how the leased property can be used. I find that it is past time that the FCC or even congress enact rules that prevent carriers from harming consumers in much the same way that Bell Telephone abused consumers.

      Actually, your basic assumption is patently false, and likely why you completely misunderstand the issue.

      When something is leased, the lessor has full rights to use it as they see fit, subject to any restrictions or covenants contained in the lease, and not otherwise prohibited.

      Obvious analogy:

      I rent a house.

      I have the right of "quiet enjoyment" - meaning my landlord cannot now decide that I can't do things with it that are not out of the norm.

      Meaning, he can't tell me how to arrange my furniture, what bedroom to sleep in, or not to lie on my lawn sunbathing - even if I'm 60, weigh 400 lbs, and am overly fond of Speedos.

      Similarly, the bar is fairly high on justification for the FCC (or congress) to change the rules on how carriers use the spectrum they lease.

      This is really a technical issue - not a legal one.

      The carriers have the right to place limitation on the service they offer.
      That's beyond dispute - and tested in numerous court decisions.
      It's not an unlimited right, but it's substantial and includes reselling and operating servers.

      So, if the carrier wants to ban web servers, they can either drop packets going to your device, or stop the device from operating a server in the first place.

      The latter is much more efficient.

    5. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by erroneus · · Score: 1

      More or less, that is heading in the correct direction. There are many legal entities and ideas that exist at the discretion of "the people." All intellectual property, for example, falls under this category. Right of way and local monopolies also falls under this category. This is why various businesses such as telephone companies need explicit permission from the local government to operate. And those that grant permission can also take it away. Even the existence of "the corporation" exists only under the permission granted to it by the people which is why the government also has the power to revoke a corporation from existence and the power to break them up into smaller parts among other things.

      You clearly disagree with these facts from a moral perspective and would prefer to treat these legal entities as being natural rather than what they are. This is called "taking something for granted" and is inappropriate and does not recognize the powers that can be enacted to control these government granted permissions. While you may wish to disagree with the facts morally, you would be a fool to refuse to acknowledge the facts in practice. To believe otherwise is to live in some sort of capitalist fantasy-land.

      I know you were being sarcastic, but the Sun is not an imaginary property and certainly not within the realm of government regulation. However, other forms of energy use are -- for example, there are government regulations restricting the rights of a business to pollute the environment and indeed the air we all breathe. So while the Sun isn't regulated, the AIR is! And so too is the water, the air-waves and even a land-owner's rights to build or operate a business of his choosing in a location of his choosing. (I refer to zoning laws that prohibit things like strip clubs opening close to public schools for example.)

      If I am retarded, you are living in dream-land.

    6. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by erroneus · · Score: 1

      It would be patently false if it weren't for practice of reality flying in the face of your statements. There are numerous examples of government at all levels invoking controls, regulations and exceptions after the fact of an agreement being enacted. New law is written by government all the time quite often superseding previous agreements and guarantees between individuals/businesses and the government of the people.

      So no, it is not patently false as numerous examples of such things are quite common.

      As to your example of what a carrier might be able to do in response, I have to disagree with you on moral and practical grounds. The regulations on POTS is a very near equivalent. Do they have the right to prevent you from using an answering machine simply because they want to sell voicemail services to you? No, they don't. How is this fundamentally different from running a server? The phone company used to restrict people from using any and all third party equipment. You had to lease your phone equipment from the phone company exclusively and you could not own your own equipment. Keep in mind we are in the early stages of matters surrounding net neutrality and consumer abuse by wireless carriers, but I expect the resolutions on the matter to reflect the wisdom of previous actions against the once abusive telephone monopoly.

    7. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Oh okay, I get you. The Sun is a universal resource and owned by all of us, so anything sunlight falls on should automatically belong to We, the People, and not be so-called "Private Property" bullshit that Corporate Greed wants you to believe in.

      More or less, that is heading in the correct direction.

      .. what?

      If I am retarded, you are living in dream-land.

      Says the guy who actually BELIEVES that touching something universal at an intermediate step means you automatically MUST open your private, self-funded, personal property up to the universe as free. Since you breath MY air, I should be free to rape YOUR ass.

    8. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by erroneus · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt anyone interpreted anything I said to mean that. I find it to be quite a stretch to have what I said interpreted that way. I never said anything about being free. You seem to be intentionally misinterpreting anything I say and then exaggerating your own misinterpretation to extremes. This is not an effective debate method and only makes you seem irrational and unreasonable and perhaps even immature with all the name-calling. As some have asked me in the past, "hyperbole much?" Simple observation of current and past government exercises of authority over permissions and property granted or sold to individuals and businesses should be all one needs to know where power and control originates. (And of course, a government's constitution is the instrument intended to protect the people from the government in case you were wondering.)

      We do indeed breathe the same air. And thankfully, there are rules and laws preventing your abuse of the air. And should you find a way to abuse the air that isn't covered by present rules and laws, you can bet new rules and laws won't be far behind.

    9. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      The carriers have the right to place limitation on the service they offer.

      Of course they can. These restrictions are in the service contract that you sign in order to use their network.

      So, if the carrier wants to ban web servers, they can either drop packets going to your device, or stop the device from operating a server in the first place.

      The contract forbids me from doing certain things - if I do them then I am in breach of contract and they can withdraw my services. If they want, they can place technical limitations on their network so that I can't do something that would put me in breach of my contract anyway (or at least alert them to the fact that I'm doing something I shouldn't). What they have no business doing is placing restrictions on a device that I own that I can't remove.

      The latter is much more efficient.

      And far less secure. This whole thing reminds me of the idiots who put javascript password prompts on web pages rather than doing the authentication on the server side - it makes it trivial for someone to bypass the security and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

    10. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      You suggested that they shouldn't be allowed to restrict you because the airwaves they use to get the signal from the cell phone to the tower is "owned by the People" (socialist statement, but arguably true due to how our government works and the reasons you stated). Their "network" doesn't use the airwaves for its capacity, it uses fiber optic cables and satellite (line-of-site microwave with a repeater, not free-air) and their own switching equipment that they buy or lease. Your implication is that, since they touch "free" things somewhere, their WHOLE NETWORK belongs to "us."

    11. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by erroneus · · Score: 1

      It is without question and incontestable that the most significant portion of a wireless carrier's network is the legal ability to operate on the government controlled airwaves. All else is supporting hardware and services. In addition to that, a great many of these services provided are related to how the network is used in communicating on the public internet.

      A carrier should not be entitled to dictate which equipment is allowed to use the airwaves based network nor the public internet. The equipment they own is ultimately a collection of devices that amount to a gateway to the public internet and the public telephone network via the public airwaves.

      Carriers seek not only to control the devices that are used and the features the devices contain, they seek to limit the services of others as well. All of this for the purpose of selling additional services that are in competition with services offered elsewhere on the public internet and public phone network.

    12. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It is without question and incontestable that the most significant portion of a wireless carrier's network is the legal ability to operate on the government controlled airwaves. All else is supporting hardware and services. In addition to that, a great many of these services provided are related to how the network is used in communicating on the public internet.

      How, exactly? If we cut the physical fiber cables, how else will my cell phone call reach your cell phone?

      Moreover, why shouldn't they be allowed to dictate how you can use their equipment? Can I hack into AT&T's network because it's mainly connected to the public airwaves and thus belongs to me, so I'm authored to access them however the hell I want, right?

    13. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "If we cut the physical fiber cables, how else will my cell phone call reach your cell phone?"

      You underestimate the powers of microwave transmission, particularly that of shortwave. I used to pick up broadcasts from China and Russia on my old shortwave radio, and those aren't using very powerful transmitters nor particularly precise receivers.

      A cell mesh network would be more than feasible. We have the hardware capable of doing it, the phone makers just don't have the software, or aren't releasing it. Well, I take that back, Skype had the option as functioning as a routing node at one time, I don't know if it still has that now.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    14. Re:I have issue with Apple's "their network" claim by erroneus · · Score: 1

      All of their equipment in among the public air waves and the public telephone network and the public internet (all of which the FCC has regulatory say-so) is irrelevant if their restrictions amount to preventing an authorized user from using his own compatible equipment to access services available on the other side of the carrier's equipment.

      When the carrier begins blocking features, functions and services of others for profit, they risk action by regulatory agencies. This has been shown in the past and in the present and likely into the future as investigations on mobile phones in various forms are still in progress.

  13. Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by agorist_apostle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...does anyone else ever get the feeling that there is a whole cabal of businesses, government organizations, etc, out there just trying to manage the piss out of them? Managed content, managed hardware, managed media...there is too much management...

    1. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The secret no one is supposed to talk about is that "management" is where all the money is going. Whether it is government, health care, education, telecommunications, insurance... you name it. All the money is going to the middle men who don't know how do anything but push papers and write contracts. There is no value added by these people at all. The health care industry is just full of people working in "business" areas. When I lived in Indianapolis an office I went to when I was sick had I think 3 doctors and about 12 people working in the office in various positions. Health insurance companies are chock full of people who know almost nothing but are making huge checks. Public school districts have huge multi-story "administration" buildings full of people who don't teach. That's where all the money is going... start hiring people who actually know some stuff and actually contribute to the bottom line and we'll start to move in the right direction again.

    2. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by c_forq · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is that in most cases these people are essential. They know something, just not in the field they are working in. I know a person who worked in one of those school administrative offices, they were paid more than any teacher in the district - but they brought over 2 million dollars into the district. Knowing how to write and win grants is very valuable. Likewise with hospitals, knowing how to make a treatment covered by medicare, and having knowledge of the multitude of forms out there (both government and insurance) is very valuable. Maybe it shouldn't be, but there also shouldn't be the Darfur situation and abject poverty in the US, but there is.

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
    3. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      ...does anyone else ever get the feeling that there is a whole cabal of businesses, government organizations, etc, out there just trying to monetize the piss out of them? Monetized content, monetized hardware, monetized media...there is too much monetization...

      There - fixed that for you.

    4. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by foniksonik · · Score: 0

      If what you say is true then the US is in for a world of hurt. All that money going to people who do nothing but push paper all day then goes out and buys things from stores who buy things from manufacturers who employ people who make things and of course all along the line there are IT people needed to maintain all the infrastructure that keeps it going... ie: lay off all those middle managers and we'd suddenly have > 30% unemployment and our economy would be in the grave.

      You better have a plan on what those people SHOULD be doing rather than passing YouTube videos around all day or plan on losing your job right along with them.

      It might be better to simply accept the mass delusion and continue as if you never came up with this idea...

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    5. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So what you're saying is that these people are only essential because they are made essential by other people like them.

    6. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, those people are just excercising their ability to communicate with other know-nothings like themselves. Who do you think the people are that decide who gets the grants? More "management".

      Its such a vicious cycle. Nuke 'em from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

    7. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good point, I think the solution to this problem is to send less of our tax dollars to the feds in the first place; so we then don't have to spend so much time and effort competing to get back those same dollars...

    8. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      That is our history and destiny - the "B" ark. 2 million years and thats it. At least our planet doesn't get potted into a black hole. You never know when you might need a clean telephone...

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
    9. Re:Maybe I'm paranoid, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever run a company?

      Ever had to get customers in the door?

      Ever had to comply with government regulations (not all of which are bad, but all of which do require your attention)?

      Ever had to send out invoices, get paid, handle payroll, set up and manage insurance?

      Complex societies create lots of middlemen that are, like it or not, necessary. Too few middlemen and the infrastructure starts to fail. Too many, and it becomes too inefficient to operate properly. But you need the middlemen.

      In fact, what defines a "middleman"? Farmers aren't middlemen. Are bankers who loan farmers money so they can buy equipment middlemen? Are the lawyers who write contracts for the bankers and farmers middlemen, when they are creating the agreement the bankers and farmers need? Is the guy who wrote the word processing software that the lawyer used a middleman, or is he creating "real" value?

      See how tricky it gets?

      Think about your job and imagine how it would look to someone who lived 100 years ago. Chances are they'd see it as superfluous, unless you're in a building trade, are a farmer, or make things in a factory.

  14. Differentiation is good by axlrosen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you don't like a company crippling a product, what are the alternatives?

    Well, one alternative is that the company couple sell different physical products with the different capabilities. Of course, that would increase costs, so both the crippled and uncrippled versions would cost more.

    Or, the company could only sell uncrippled hardware. Now, what price would they sell it for? They certainly can't sell it for the lower price of a crippled product, because they'd lose money. So now you've lost the choice between a lower-price/lower-featured product, and a higher-price/higher-featured product. In other words, richer people win, poorer people lose.

    So we should recognize that there's a benefit to being able to sell different sets of features to different consumers. More people get what they want at a price they can afford.

    1. Re:Differentiation is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you lost me. They already make the device and it has the feature. How do they lose money by NOT implementing an extra system to cripple what was already made? Honestly, we are talking about features like blocking people from using a USB cable to put a ring tone on their phone here. The devices can ALL do it, but most in the US get blocked.

    2. Re:Differentiation is good by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

      I think you're talking about a scheme similar to what IBM et al use on their servers, where they come with a bunch of processors which you don't pay for unless you want to use them.

      I agree that this is a viable market technique for price discrimination.

      However, in this case, I'm not sure that this is really equivalent. All a phone uses is bandwidth from the provider. If they can't supply enough, they should just throttle it down. The type of service consuming bandwidth shouldn't matter.

      --
      Stop! Dremel time!
  15. It is actually good for Apple PR by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now lets be realistic here people.
    You get a Cell Phone and most of them even the low end systems are more powerful then computers 10 years ago. So most phones can do a lot of stuff.
    Now you have different carriers. They can Suck and have a small limited network where only some services will properly run. So if you had a phone that can do anything on a network that cant when you try to do something that the network can't handle you get an error, or it just doens't work. The geeks like us will see this as either a reason to switch carriers or hack the system to get it to work. But for average joe it will be like. Why offer us the feature if we can't use it, or it is broken so the entire system is broken.
    So if your carrier will not support the feature then it shouldn't be on the phone. So people will be happy with your product as it works. And if they see someone on an different network with the same product and there is a new feature then you think about switching the carrier not the phone technology. So if the iPhone will be on different networks and there is one willing to support different features you need. You can switch to that vender without thinking man this iPhone sucks because I cannot tether with my computer. While the truth is the iPhone can teather it is just you stupid carrier who won't let you.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:It is actually good for Apple PR by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The parent post would actually make sense if Apple and AT&T didn't enforce a false monopoly on the market. This is another reason that exclusivity deals should be illegal.

    2. Re:It is actually good for Apple PR by rufty_tufty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that carriers and vendors in general see phone features as content. i.e. the Ipod is capable of playing any MP3, however that does not give you the right to play any MP3 without paying for it, consumers are used to paying for content and if they can be persuaded to see GPS functionality as content then that makes it easier to milk the cow that is the consumer. It is in many corporations interests to see applications and indeed all features viewed by the consumer in a similar way i.e. everything of value is paid for individually.
      Trying not to sound like an opensource zealot, this is where things like android could really save us - by keeping applications on phones free in the same way that opensource has allowed modern software to be free. True there may be a greater effort required for the user to do this, but that then becomes the price paid.

      Now if only there was a decent android phone available in the UK....

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    3. Re:It is actually good for Apple PR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On what grounds should exclusivity deals be illegal? You need to justify your assertion. The harm caused by the exclusivity deal between Apple and AT&T is purely imaginary. So you can't have an iPhone on Verizon without jumping through hoops. Do you need an iPhone? Is it somehow essential that you have a specific phone on whatever carrier you want? No, to assert otherwise is an exercise in fantasy.

      Nothing entitles you to have the phone you want working with whatever service provider you want. There is no foundation for declaring exclusivity deals illegal. The limitations they put on the market are not meaningful, only inconvenient. And if convenience is the new bar by which we determine legality then we're all in for a shit storm of epic proportions cause I alone am inconvenienced by a hell of a lot of things that rank higher than my cell phone and its service.

  16. Wait a minute... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Funny

    If Apple successfully patents this, it'll be harder for other people to do it. Why is this bad, again?

    1. Re:Wait a minute... by drkwatr · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They patent it then nobody else can do this so all that is left is to not buy an Apple product and we are closer. Right? No, seriously I'm glad these companies continue their childish ways since it will make my job easier in the future. It is time for change.

  17. Just a thought.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    So, you build this super-nifty gadget that does all sorts of cool things... but you don't want those cool things to actually be used?
     
      Why not build them without that capability in the first place?

  18. What are we purchasing then? by realsilly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I could agree with this if and only if they are giving you the phone for free and you are only buying the service. But when you are expected to buy the hardware, it is no one's business what you do with it. Too many companiess want to control what you do with the gadgets that you buy. Why are we allowing this in our society?

    Crazy scenario, if you buy a toaster with a computer chip in it that has a little app that holds memory of who you are and how you like your toast toasted, should we then allow the companies to own the rights to how you want to modify the toaster?

    I know I know, someone will say, it's about the network and keeping it clean of apps with viruses or that the apps are what make a company $$$, but it's all becoming too invasive.

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
  19. In Gulag U.S.A. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cellphones cripple APPLE!

    Yours In Ashgabat,
    K. Trout

  20. Great! by patrickthbold · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So if I want a phone that isn't crippled, all's I have to do is not buy an iphone? GO PATENTS!

    1. Re:Great! by thetartanavenger · · Score: 1

      So if I want a phone that isn't crippled, all's I have to do is not buy an iphone?

      I thought that was already the case?

      --
      Who need's speling and grammar?
    2. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if I want a phone that isn't crippled, all's I have to do is not buy an iphone? GO PATENTS!

      My thoughts exactly. Wasn't planning on buying an iPhone in the first place, but if this prevents the company whose phone I *do* buy from putting crippling DRM on it, I'm all for it!

      Get this patent approved asap!

    3. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank god Slashdot is on their bashing spree once some piece of technology becomes popular it is hated around here, nevermind that Apple has notoriously locked their stuff down and the biggest obvious one is the Apple computer.

      As of right now Iphone dominates every other phone and especially its polished application library of some 75,000+.

  21. I say ISSUE the patent... by ActusReus · · Score: 1

    ... just with the caveat that they can't license it to anyone else, and they must sue any infringers who cripple phones also.

  22. Apple seems intent on suicide by syousef · · Score: 0, Troll

    I admit it. I hate Apple. I hate their philosophy. I hate their restrictions. I hate their closed nature. I hate their smugness. I hate their marketing lies like "it just works" and "think different" (aka like a brainwashed moron).

    But lately I was very happy when my hip cool 20-something cousin who goes to clubs and uses MSN and Facebook and Twitter bought an iPhone and was cursing about it almost immediately. If they can't get the young hip crowd with their non-functional difficult to used crippled horseshit maybe there is hope that in the not too distant future the company will just fucking die. All I hear about lately is how Apple is restricting some nice neat feature or use of a device. Fuck them. Die evil turtle neck wearing turkies!!!

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:Apple seems intent on suicide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THIS anecdotal, ranting bile from someone with an admitted blind hatred of the company is modded INSIGHTFUL? Slashdot, you're ridiculous. This is almost as bad as the Fark politics tab.

    2. Re:Apple seems intent on suicide by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Personally I prefer to "think different" by not having an Ipod/phone/whatever.

      And who would settle for a device that just works? Although, considering this latest news about crippling phones, I guess they think people should think themselves lucky if works at least.

    3. Re:Apple seems intent on suicide by syousef · · Score: 1

      50% insightful
      40% Troll
      10% Flamebait

      What a wank. Half the people posting think it's insightful but they're being shouted down by Apple fanbois who come back a day later when no one else is reading and mod it down. Slashdot moderation at it's finest.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    4. Re:Apple seems intent on suicide by syousef · · Score: 1

      THIS anecdotal, ranting bile from someone with an admitted blind hatred of the company is modded INSIGHTFUL? Slashdot, you're ridiculous. This is almost as bad as the Fark politics tab.

      "Blind" hatred? I gave plenty of good reasons - informed hatred more like.

      Guess what? Everyone on the Internet doesn't need to agree with you on everything. ...and don't hide behind AC with your bil you gimboid fanboi chimp. At least I'm willing to put my name/handle on what I'm saying.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  23. So it's DRM... ON A CELLPHONE by russotto · · Score: 3, Funny

    Is "ON A CELLPHONE" the new "ON THE INTERNET"? A quick glance over the claims reveals nothing that hasn't been done with DRM before in other settings.

    1. Re:So it's DRM... ON A CELLPHONE by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Is "ON A CELLPHONE" the new "ON THE INTERNET"? A quick glance over the claims reveals nothing that hasn't been done with DRM before in other settings.

      You're right, it should never have issued as a patent!

      Oh, wait, it hasn't. Settle down.

  24. Compete with Apple if you do not like it by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

    Hey folks, you all have a path open to you if you don't like the way Apple and AT&T manage the IPhone. Simply design, build, market, and sell a competing phone and service that is as popular as the IPhone. What's holding you back?

    1. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      What's holding you back?

      Millions of dollars and man-decades of investment plus the likelihood of a patent arsenal that would ensure the investment is a failure. Or to be more clear: Lack of an even playing field.

    2. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by ZekoMal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey folks, you all have a path open to you if you don't like the way Apple and AT&T manage the IPhone. Simply design, build, market, and sell a competing phone and service that is as popular as the IPhone. What's holding you back?

      Yeah, you're right! I'll just use my millions of dollars and my full team of dedicated programmers as well as my factories and create an entirely new phone that doesn't go against any of the hundreds of patents while being competitively priced, then pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into advertising to get as much known about my phone as possible, then either find an existing company that has cell phone towers up that agree with our methods (not gonna happen) or build our own cell phone towers so we don't have to pay for the privilege to be screwed over whilst jumping through dozens of government hoops!

      Wow, it'll be so easy!

    3. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by mr_gorkajuice · · Score: 1

      There's a much simpler solution, and it's actually quite feasible. I know, cause I'm practicing it. Just get a different phone.

    4. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My boy, freedom does not mean that you get whatever you want handed to you on a silver platter. Sometimes the only choice freedom gets you is whether to survive as a slave or starve to death as a free man.

    5. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When that was the only option left, people who had any sense of dignity knew what their duty was, and it wasn't starve as a free man or survive as a slave, but to make it possible to survive as a free man by any mean necessary. If libertards can't see it, then may they fuck off, they don't deserve to share ideological roots with Proudhon and Rothbard.

    6. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      I'm glad the world is full of people that are not beaten down by your thoughts. People like Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama, etc etc etc.

    7. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by ZekoMal · · Score: 1
      All of which went into multi-billion dollar corporations...right?

      The business world is a world fraught with laws directly restricting any sort of movement forward unless you are already rich. This becomes moreso apparent when you add two things: electronics and the USA. If you trace the history, you can see many branches at the beginning, followed by a few branches reaching out and grabbing the ones around them, growing larger and larger. Then they reach into the government and have concrete built around their little trees to make sure no one else grows. Sure, a few weeds grow here and there, but new trees will struggle and be far sicklier.

      And that's avoiding the customers, who already are deeply entrenched in current technology and don't want to change unless they have absolutely no choice.

      It is easier to win the hearts of man than it is to win the hearts of business. It's the reason why when someone slams reality in your face, you reach for Ghandi, for Martin Luther King Jr., and so on. You don't reach for them because they succeeded in the situation you put forth; you reach for them because they pull at heart strings. For example, Bill Gates is an example you could have reached for; by all accounts he started with nothing and became richer than our wildest dreams. But he is far from what you would define as a hero, even though he is a successful businessman.

    8. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1

      Patents.

      --
      This space for rent.
    9. Re:Compete with Apple if you do not like it by Draek · · Score: 1

      Sure! and if you don't like the government spying on you, all you need to do is stage an armed revolution and declare your independence. Otherwise just go, drop your pants, and take what Big Brother gives you.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  25. WTF? by C_Kode · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Man, I hate Micros... err Apple. Actually, I think I just hate Steve Jobs. Most of Apple's fascist type behavior appears to be coming from him.

    1. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I think I just hate Steve Jobs. Most of Apple's fascist type behavior appears to be coming from him.

      Evidence? Or is this just your own "wisdom".

  26. RIM has prior art... by scream+at+the+sky · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You can do all of this via Blackberry Enterprise Server.

    My 'berry is so locked down by the guru's at head office that I have the same web browsing restrictions on it, that I do on our point of sale desktops, all courtesy of the BES and SonicWall routers.

    --
    I wish I was a neutron bomb, for once I could go off...
    1. Re:RIM has prior art... by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      Your "berry" or your employer's "berry"?

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:RIM has prior art... by scream+at+the+sky · · Score: 1

      Mine.

      I supply the hardware and pay the bill, which I then bill them for.

      --
      I wish I was a neutron bomb, for once I could go off...
  27. More fragmentation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hell yeah as independent developers we need more fragmentation.

  28. Re: turn-by-turn directions? by zaaj · · Score: 1
    My first thought too - My blackberry has a GPS reciever in it, but the feature is turned off by Verizon because they want to charge a monthly premium for their navigation service, which is unnecessary with GPS enabled and software installed on the handset itself. Irritatingly, it disables the GPS for other applications (GPS Trace logging for OpenStreetMap anyone?) and I don't need the navigation service enough to want to pay every month for it.

    Why the patent, I couldn't guess, unless it is as others here are saying - patent it so you can sue carriers who want to implement the system to prevent them from crippling the iPhone.

  29. From iPhone you can only call another iPhone! by JoeSchmoe007 · · Score: 1

    This is Apple's ultimate goal!

  30. Surely a typo... by clickety6 · · Score: 1

    Provisioning Computing Devices should be Poisoning Computing Devices

    --
    ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
  31. Actually I like that pretty much ! by BESTouff · · Score: 1
    If iPhones are "defectivebydesign", that means that for people with other devices (say, Nokia N900 for example) without such defects, accessing the network will be a breeze.

    Thanks Apple !

    1. Re:Actually I like that pretty much ! by nschubach · · Score: 1

      That's just what I was thinking. Maybe if we can get these companies to start patenting things that make life hard, other companies will be less inclined to implement said feature... The consumer wins!

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:Actually I like that pretty much ! by Bai+jie · · Score: 1

      1) Patent Suckiness
      2) Sue people that make sucky products
      3) Profit!!!

      I figured out number 2!

  32. Prior art? by FellowConspirator · · Score: 1

    Hasn't this sort of thing been done for years? I bought a Motorola Razr phone with AT&T some time back and a number of the standard features were disabled. Verizon takes phones all the time and mucks with the software to disable features, often so that they can rent the features back to you at some cost. So, what's new about Apple's approach that makes it patentable?

    The only thin that I can think of is that traditionally carriers would "provision" the phones by licensing the phone's firmware then writing a new variation and burning it into all the phones that they sell. I can only suppose that Apple's solution is reduced to a secured / signed configuration file so that you can simply install that and not screw with the phone's firmware/OS.

    1. Re:Prior art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's even older than that; I have heard of old time computer operators who would disable features their companies hadn't paid for on their IBM dinosaurs before field service came in to work on their machines. After field service left, they re-enabled the costly features. This was a weekly operation for much of the big iron.

  33. AT&T has prior art... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They crippled my Nokia 6582 years ago...

    1. Re:AT&T has prior art... by obonicus · · Score: 1

      A joke, but hasn't Nokia (possibly among others) been doing this for ages? I had a Nokia N73 and my carrier's unique firmware disabled features like Stereo Bluetooth and PTT. The N73 was released Q3 2006 according to wiki.

    2. Re:AT&T has prior art... by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      the point is Apple's method does not cripple the firmware the phone is completely open and fully functional except for the carrier that places limits. Take the phone to a better carrier Bam you have everything working.

  34. Slashdot Apple Logo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's high time Apple got a new logo on this site..
              Do Borg implants work on fruit..?

  35. Every cellular manufacturer has prior art btw by DomNF15 · · Score: 1

    As a former Motorola mobile devices employee, I can attest to that. All cell makers have provisioning, it is nothing new, interesting, unique, or patentable (in my opinion). Just another example of Apple thinking that it excretes golden feces...

    1. Re:Every cellular manufacturer has prior art btw by kimvette · · Score: 1

      There is even more basic prior art that makes all of this an obvious implementation to those skilled in the field: chmod. chmod predates all digital cellphones.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:Every cellular manufacturer has prior art btw by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      All cell makers have provisioning, it is nothing new,

      Apple is not patenting provisioning just their method of securing it by signing the config file.

    3. Re:Every cellular manufacturer has prior art btw by DomNF15 · · Score: 1

      Also been done before - the concept of signed binaries/config files is not new or unique to them.

  36. Wait, I've seen this before by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't that what slashdot has been ripping into the cable ISPs for? Throttling certain services, and charging for "excessive" use (bandwidth caps)? AT&T and Verizon are always bragging about their networks ... why don't we make them live up to the hype?

    Oh, yeah, because it's hype ...

    --
    I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    1. Re:Wait, I've seen this before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that what slashdot has been ripping into the cable ISPs for? Throttling certain services, and charging for "excessive" use (bandwidth caps)?

      Those things would be great if it they were advertised for and fair. And by advertised I don't mean "woohoo unlimited broadband" and by fair I don't mean "first 5GB costs $10, another 5GB $100".

    2. Re:Wait, I've seen this before by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Isn't that what slashdot has been ripping into the cable ISPs for? Throttling certain services, and charging for "excessive" use (bandwidth caps)? AT&T and Verizon are always bragging about their networks ... why don't we make them live up to the hype?

      Oh, yeah, because it's hype ...

      No it is not. Cable service advertises and unlimited service. Bandwidth caps are a limit, throttling a connection to sub-dialup speeds after some time is a limit. We are upset about the cable co's because they are lying to us. Except for Australians (and a few others) who are complaining the download caps are ridiculously low (and they are from what I hear, 1 to 10 Gb/month?).

    3. Re:Wait, I've seen this before by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      Okay, so here's how I see it:

      a) Networks have finite bandwidth for calls and data.
      b) Networks are oversubscribed, because building a network that can give each of its subscribers truly unlimited voice & data is cost prohibitive.
      c) Knowing the above, network providers nonetheless offer some form of "unlimited" plan, and often lead with this in their advertising. Thus, the "hype".

      The gamble that the providers make is simple. They know that even the most resource-intensive customers they have:

      a) shut up sooner or later, and
      b) are relatively rare compared to the run-of-the-mill subscriber who actually uses far less of the network than they actually pay for or need.

      The devices on the network are becoming far more powerful and capable, and the network providers likely see these new capabilities:

      a) as untapped revenue streams, unless they can be controlled, ie crippled until the subscriber pays more, and
      b) a potential threat to their oversubscription model.

      Of the carriers I briefly surveyed, all have some sort of "unlimited" voice or data plan, whether it is Sprint's unlimited 4g data plan, or one of the others' unlimited mobile-to-mobile plans. Paradoxically for the literal-minded, but nonetheless unsurprisingly, all of them have limits.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    4. Re:Wait, I've seen this before by fredjh · · Score: 1

      All you're really saying is they should not be able to advertise it as "unlimited."

      --
      Stupid, sexy Flanders.
    5. Re:Wait, I've seen this before by cjb658 · · Score: 1

      That's what I've heard.

      Australia is the perfect example of what can go wrong if we don't keep our ISPs under control.

    6. Re:Wait, I've seen this before by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      "Unsurprisingly"?

      What I find surprising here is that you buy something that is advertised as unlimited, and then are not surprised when it turns out to be limited.

      Of course, that's not to say they can't offer a limited plan. They certainly can. What they can't do is tell you you're paying a flat rate for unlimited data, and then turn around and place a limit.

      They can't have it both ways. Either stop telling users the plan is unlimited, or allow unlimited (as in, I can have it running all day and night for a month) use. To advertise that something is unlimited when it is in fact limited is false advertising.

      If the voice plan they offer me is that I will have 900 minutes a month and be charged for using more, that's fine! I know up front that's what I'm getting. On the other hand, if they offer me unlimited minutes, that means I can be on the phone from daybreak to midnight every day if I want to, whether or not they actually expected me to do that.

      If you're going to advertise an all you can eat buffet, you'd better be ready for the big guy that can chow through four plates like they're not even there. If you're going to cut people off after two plates, you can't call it all you can eat. The bone of contention here is the dishonesty. It's not that everyone in the world should be banned from offering a limited plan, it's that they should advertise it as what it is if they do.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  37. Good idea by argent · · Score: 1

    Tie up a crappy idea in lawsuits over bad patents.

  38. Translation: by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

    "Method for intentionally introducing flaws in products."

  39. Patent Restricted by Powys · · Score: 1

    Does that mean it would be a patent violation for any other manufacturer to limit capabilities? If so I'm all for it. Let Apple restrict their products if it means everybody else isn't allowed to!!!

  40. as in Europe by spectrokid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    you are absolutely right. That is why in Europe, where phones are not restricted, not a single Carrier has survived today. Oh wait... try again
    you are absolutely right. If users were to use their USB cable to install a free ringtone, this would totally overload the network. Oh wait... mmm; bollocks

    --

    10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then

  41. Another evil company by FridayBob · · Score: 1

    ... that's what Apple are showing themselves to be. If, occasionally, I feel interested in their innovative products, this kind of news is what always keeps me from acting upon it.

    It seems that Apple has become too successful for its own good -- somethings that seems to affect (virtually?) all major corporations these days. At first they start out with a cool product and they're good at keeping their customers happy about it. Then they become a success and make a lot of money. But, almost inevitably the company gets sold and/or one or more assholes take over the helm. Assholes? Yeah, they're the type that understand that "It's the stockholders, stupid!" Therefore, if a decision to do something differently will probably make the company more money -- even if it's likely to piss off many customers -- then it's the right thing to do. Hell, they usually don't even care about breaking the law; normally they're careful that the potential fines don't exceed the resulting profits, but that's not always the case. Not that I'm accusing Apple of ever having done anything illegal, but I see no reason to trust them either.

    Show me a successful company that has always put customer satisfaction before profits, and I'll show you a company that you can trust (at least until the next change of management). Actually, I'll bet that there are lots of them... just precious few (if any) that are publicly owned.

  42. I think this is a Good Idea by golodh · · Score: 1
    For once I am wholly in favor of a patent: the one just obtained by Apple on limiting the functionality of mobile devices.

    In my opinion, the license fees for the monetization of this proud piece of Intellectual Property cannot be set too high. A license fee of 15$ per appliance for any other manufacturers wishing to license this remarkable piece of Intellectual Property seems wholly appropriate.

    Incidentally, I do not own an iPhone or any other mobile communication device manufactured by Apple and I definitely have no plans to acquire one. I am quite happy with my 3-year-old mobile telephone, which is a prepaid model, and I have no plans to convert to a subscription. Thanks.

  43. Cancel my iphone by uneek · · Score: 1

    This makes me want to cancel my iphone

  44. Not free=flawed? by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You don't seem to understand the flawed business model that communications providers have been running with since the beginning.

    The business model since the beginning has been to build networks with business users in mind, and then selling unused capacity to consumers at bargain rates.

    At one time, a buck a minute was normal, and for business users, still a bargain compared to the "mobile phone" that Perry Mason used.

    Since the networks grew at an amazing rate, eventually reducing costs to commodity levels, that model was hardly flawed.

    They never had enough capacity for their customers.

    There have always been areas where use has jumped fast enough to outstrip network expansion.
    If you mean network resources have never been unlimited, I'll grant you that.

    So as it stands today, there just isn't enough network for us, which is why when there are city/county/state-wide emergencies many calls do not go through.

    YOUR calls don't go through - the important ones do.
    That's by design.
    Cell operators are required by Federal law to interrupt consumer cell service to prevent the network becoming unavailable to emergency responders.

    Comcast (unfortunately my home ISP) is perhaps one of the worst offenders of this. Having resold the bandwidth I paid for multiple hundreds of times. Eventually instead of providing me with what I have been paying for (unlimited broadband, as in no bandwidth cap), they reneged on their deal and put in a hard cap of 250gb/mo.

    So...what you are saying is that your monthly charge should cover 25 terabytes of transfer or more?

    The fact of the matter is that you didn't buy ALL their bandwidth - they aren't reselling YOUR bandwidth - that's pure rubbish.

    The question is how to strike a balance between use and cost.

    There is a certain cost per byte that has to be recovered, or no one gets to play.

    I probably come pretty close to the cap at times, but have never heard anything from Comcast.
    On my business accounts, I shatter that barrier every month - that's why I have business accounts that aren't subject to it.

    You should stop whining and do the same.

    Comcast COULD have simply limited your speed so that you couldn't exceed the cap.
    It would still be unlimited.

    That was rejected as a bad compromise for obvious reasons - most people don't use bandwidth at a sustained high rate.

    1. Re:Not free=flawed? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      So...what you are saying is that your monthly charge should cover 25 terabytes of transfer or more? The fact of the matter is that you didn't buy ALL their bandwidth - they aren't reselling YOUR bandwidth - that's pure rubbish.

      1MB * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30 = 2592000 (or 2.59 TB/mo)

      Unless my math is wrong, I'm now receiving almost exactly 10% of what I was paying for before being capped at 250gb/mo and they are still charging me the same rate. That means Comcast effectively is making 900% more profit simply by stealing from me instead of growing their infrastructure. Now I know I'm not the only person in the this situation. I would suspect there are at least 100,000 more people just like me paying the same rates and being capped the same way. @$100/mo, by re-selling already paid for bandwidth Comcast "added" the ability to sell to 900,000 more customers without adding a fucking thing to their network. That's $90,000,000...

      Maybe you should research some of these things before you open your mouth and remove all doubt as they say...

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    2. Re:Not free=flawed? by babyrat · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about your math, although I sort of suspect there is a conversion from bits to bytes that you might be missing, and then perhaps some multiply by 1000 instead of 1024s but regardless of your math, your logic is wrong.

      They are not stealing anything from you. The agreement you initially had with them was changed. I suspect somewhere in that agreement there was a clause stating that the price you were paying wasn't guaranteed for all eternity. They came up with a new price, and you apparently are agreeing to pay it.

      Perhaps you should consider another provider if you are that dissatisfied, or doing without the service if another acceptable provider can not be found.

    3. Re:Not free=flawed? by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      Let's start with this:

      Comcast effectively is making 900% more profit

      Even if your post was true, it's 900% more revenue. Which means more than 900% more profit, except that you have to remember that their CURRENT profits reflect having this cap, which means that not having the cap means 10% of the revenue and thus a lot less profit and possibly loss (possibly huge losses). But it's worse than that.

      Comcast isn't stealing from you, they are failing to sell their product as cheaply as you would like. I don't know why you think you paid for a monthly bandwidth of 2.59 TB / mo.

      Also, it doesn't actually work out that they can sell to 900 000 more customers by doing that. That would only be true if all 1 million customers were saturating their bandwidth continuously. It turns out it's more like they have the bandwidth for 1000 people under your model, and by selling it this way, they can sell to 1 000 000. How many people you can sell to without unduly* affecting them all is a statistical problem: what is the probability that the demand for bandwidth at time t is > X where X is an amount that will substantially impact the experience for everybody else, given an array of people p[i] where p[i] is an upper-bound constraint on their bandwidth. So it turns out the revenue multiplier by doing it this way is more like 1000x. I got the figure 1000x in a graduate-level Internetworking class, it's a rough figure; the point is, it comes out to more than 10 because this isn't like a pie being shared by 10 people, it's more like a road. It would only be a 10x multiplier if all 10 people used their bandwidth 24/7; or alternatively, if they all used 100% of available bandwidth at exactly the same times and 0% the rest of the time with no exceptions. This is the baked-in assumption that allows the pricing model as it is today to work now. There's not one consumer ISP that's making anything close to that profit margin, and therefore none that can exist with a purely reserved-bandwidth model without SUBSTANTIALLY hiking their rates for everyone.

      An analogy: how many lanes do they put on a toll road? Do they put in one lane for every car that might move across it in full traffic? After all, they paid for 60 mph road access, and that's the only way to guarantee it (I've never encountered a toll road that was cheaper in high traffic, though they may exist.). How dare they resell your highway bandwidth after selling it to you!

      Except that's patently absurd. That's NOT what they sold you. If their advertising suggested that's what they sold you, then there's a problem with either you or possibly their advertising. But you don't get to decide what somebody else sells, or for what price they sell it (except in the extremely indirect manner of just not buying it).

      And if they did the toll would have to be ENORMOUS to recoup the cost, which would drive people away from using it, which would mean less lanes to pay for but also fewer payesr to pay for it (thus likely increasing the cost because of reduced bulk), leading to another round of people driven away.

      Comcast has a lot of things wrong with it and maybe the advertising should change. Purely reserved bandwidth, however, is a thing that will send us back to the dark ages.

      *you do not get to define what unduly means by yourself; Comcast directly, and the customers as a gestalt indirectly, do.

    4. Re:Not free=flawed? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about your math, although I sort of suspect there is a conversion from bits to bytes that you might be missing, and then perhaps some multiply by 1000 instead of 1024s but regardless of your math, your logic is wrong.

      They are not stealing anything from you. The agreement you initially had with them was changed. I suspect somewhere in that agreement there was a clause stating that the price you were paying wasn't guaranteed for all eternity. They came up with a new price, and you apparently are agreeing to pay it.

      Perhaps you should consider another provider if you are that dissatisfied, or doing without the service if another acceptable provider can not be found.

      8Mbps == 1MB/s, 1MB * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30 should be a good enough estimate no? Perhaps I am wrong.

      IANAL, and certainly not an expert in contract law, but I don't think a contract with terms that change is a legally binding contract. It's stealing because they capped my bandwidth, but did not lower the pricing. I'm paying for 90% more bandwidth than I am receiving. Therefore, my previous post is fairly accurate IMHO.

      As far as considering another provider, there are none. Comcast is an effective cable monopoly in my area (but that's really a separate issue).

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    5. Re:Not free=flawed? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      Let's start with this:

      Comcast effectively is making 900% more profit

      Even if your post was true, it's 900% more revenue. Which means more than 900% more profit, except that you have to remember that their CURRENT profits reflect having this cap, which means that not having the cap means 10% of the revenue and thus a lot less profit and possibly loss (possibly huge losses). But it's worse than that.

      Comcast isn't stealing from you, they are failing to sell their product as cheaply as you would like. I don't know why you think you paid for a monthly bandwidth of 2.59 TB / mo.

      Also, it doesn't actually work out that they can sell to 900 000 more customers by doing that. That would only be true if all 1 million customers were saturating their bandwidth continuously. It turns out it's more like they have the bandwidth for 1000 people under your model, and by selling it this way, they can sell to 1 000 000. How many people you can sell to without unduly* affecting them all is a statistical problem: what is the probability that the demand for bandwidth at time t is > X where X is an amount that will substantially impact the experience for everybody else, given an array of people p[i] where p[i] is an upper-bound constraint on their bandwidth. So it turns out the revenue multiplier by doing it this way is more like 1000x. I got the figure 1000x in a graduate-level Internetworking class, it's a rough figure; the point is, it comes out to more than 10 because this isn't like a pie being shared by 10 people, it's more like a road. It would only be a 10x multiplier if all 10 people used their bandwidth 24/7; or alternatively, if they all used 100% of available bandwidth at exactly the same times and 0% the rest of the time with no exceptions. This is the baked-in assumption that allows the pricing model as it is today to work now. There's not one consumer ISP that's making anything close to that profit margin, and therefore none that can exist with a purely reserved-bandwidth model without SUBSTANTIALLY hiking their rates for everyone.

      An analogy: how many lanes do they put on a toll road? Do they put in one lane for every car that might move across it in full traffic? After all, they paid for 60 mph road access, and that's the only way to guarantee it (I've never encountered a toll road that was cheaper in high traffic, though they may exist.). How dare they resell your highway bandwidth after selling it to you!

      Except that's patently absurd. That's NOT what they sold you. If their advertising suggested that's what they sold you, then there's a problem with either you or possibly their advertising. But you don't get to decide what somebody else sells, or for what price they sell it (except in the extremely indirect manner of just not buying it).

      And if they did the toll would have to be ENORMOUS to recoup the cost, which would drive people away from using it, which would mean less lanes to pay for but also fewer payesr to pay for it (thus likely increasing the cost because of reduced bulk), leading to another round of people driven away.

      Comcast has a lot of things wrong with it and maybe the advertising should change. Purely reserved bandwidth, however, is a thing that will send us back to the dark ages.

      *you do not get to define what unduly means by yourself; Comcast directly, and the customers as a gestalt indirectly, do.

      That's a nice post that conveniently forgets that I was actually receiving my full moneys worth when I was not capped and able to pull ~2.59TB/mo. Your whole theory is flawed by Comcast capping me at 10% of what I was previously allowed, without lowering my rates. I was sold "unlimited" and when they changed the plan to "limited" they did not properly adjust the rates. They are stealing. To use my Coca-Cola Principle analogy, if I sold you a can of Coke and then the second you opened it I took 90% of the contents back to sell to 9 other people, I just stole 90% from you.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    6. Re:Not free=flawed? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      I would suspect there are at least 100,000 more people just like me paying the same rates and being capped the same way. @$100/mo

      Okay, two things: 1) either you're a dick for not choosing the best option - I pay $109/month for Comcast Business Internet at my home, and I get 20mbps down, 5mbps up. I get 8 static IP addresses, with customized reverse-resolving DNS. I get no port blocking. Outbound SMTP? No problem. Hosting a website? No problem. Bittorrent? No problem. AND no cap. In between work and personal use I am averaging around 1TB a month down, 300GB up.

      Or, 2) you're being obtuse. Because that $100 a month you say you're paying doesn't correlate to any Internet plan that Comcast offers for personal users, and you're getting snarky about it, not factoring in the fact that that amount also covers either your TV, or Voice, or possibly both, depending on your plan. Given that Comcast charges $25 a month for 15mbps down, I'd say one of these two are highly likely to be the case.

    7. Re:Not free=flawed? by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 0, Troll

      For the same thing you pay, I get a business account with 5 times the bandwith, no cap and a .240 subnet

      I was going to say that you're just a pissy little bitch - then I realized that you really ARE someone's bitch.

    8. Re:Not free=flawed? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      I would suspect there are at least 100,000 more people just like me paying the same rates and being capped the same way. @$100/mo

      Okay, two things: 1) either you're a dick for not choosing the best option - I pay $109/month for Comcast Business Internet at my home, and I get 20mbps down, 5mbps up. I get 8 static IP addresses, with customized reverse-resolving DNS. I get no port blocking. Outbound SMTP? No problem. Hosting a website? No problem. Bittorrent? No problem. AND no cap. In between work and personal use I am averaging around 1TB a month down, 300GB up.

      Or, 2) you're being obtuse. Because that $100 a month you say you're paying doesn't correlate to any Internet plan that Comcast offers for personal users, and you're getting snarky about it, not factoring in the fact that that amount also covers either your TV, or Voice, or possibly both, depending on your plan. Given that Comcast charges $25 a month for 15mbps down, I'd say one of these two are highly likely to be the case.

      Study philosophy much?

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    9. Re:Not free=flawed? by steelfood · · Score: 1

      The smarter compromise Comcast could've made is to throttle bandwidth after a certain cap has been reached. But then they wouldn't be able to make money off of it either.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  45. Oversubscription by wonkavader · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK, he's wrong and you're wrong.

    Oversubscription is a great and fine thing and keeps costs low and therefore costs to the customers low. Most of the time, providing enough service that everyone could use everything all at once (electricity, phones, water, etc) would mean building out a ridiculous level, and create fantastic waste 99.999% of the time.

    Every business oversubscribes in some way. You allow your tenant to throw parties, but don't expand the roof to cover the infinitely number of guests he might invite: so you're an evil coca cola stealing bastard?

    The problem is not over subscription -- it's the fact that it's hidden/lied about. The fact that an apartment can only hold a finite number of guests and yet there's no statement in your lease restricting the number of guests your tenant can invite to a party isn't really a problem. The lease doesn't tell him he can invite an unlimited number of people. It doesn't tell him he can invite 1000/hour all the time and so can all his guests.

    The phone companies tell us we can have unlimited bandwidth or a high amount. Then they can't provide it. That's breach of contract and fraud.

    Your last lines are getting close to the heart of the matter: "shitcan the CEOs taking these ridiculous sums of money and grow your infrastructure to meet YOUR promises as well as the economic DEMAND."

    But you're missing the point. They're committing fraud and breaking contracts. They should not lose their jobs -- that hardly matters. The companies should be sued and prosecuted for the civil and criminal aspects of this. The officers of the company should be held responsible. They should be both destitute and jailed.

    The fault, dear Brutus, is not our telephone system, but in our political/judicial system that we are kept underlings. And in ourselves, that we are unable to force a government "of the people, by the people, for the people" to stop representing only RICH people.

    1. Re:Oversubscription by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      The point about the apartment capacity may be well intentioned but it's moot. The landlord doesn't set capacity, the fire marshal does. It has nothing at all to do with the lease. So in effect, I'm right and you are wrong.

      You do raise a point though about network capacities. I completely understand that certain networks may be designed for limited capacities, most notably the US Interstate Highway network. Where your argument breaks down though is where you say the phone companies (more generally, communications providers) can't provide a network that everyone can use simultaneously.

      The year will soon be 2010. We are persistently barraged with articles about high technology, artificial intelligence, mass compute power, mass storage capacity, etc. I find it completely ludicrous to simply accept that we all can't communicate at once. The simple fact is that since we truly expect a real-time globally integrated communications network as part of the push toward globalization and the Singularity, we NEED a communications network that does not limit our communications. Period.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
  46. Wouldn't it be nice... by superslacker87 · · Score: 1

    ...if the reason Apple wants to patent this is to sit it on the shelf with the threat of a lawsuit to anyone who cripples cell phones in the future? Think about it: Apple can cripple phones because only they can.

    As a result, Verizon, AT&T, et al. all now have to have their phones open and able to allow the consumer to do absolutely anything and everything they could ever want to do with their phones. Now, would Apple continue to have the only restricted phone on the market? I doubt it. They'd lose too much money competing against all the unlocked phones they created.

    Hurry up and do it, Apple. I want a new browser on my LG env2.

    --
    I run Ubuntu skinned to look like a Mac on a PC. Go figure.
  47. Re: turn-by-turn directions? by postbigbang · · Score: 1

    On one hand, the patent enables the horrible constraints that the telcos seem to feel they have to exercise to prevent feature use.

    On the other hand, the telcos might not want to implement it because they'd have to pay royalities to Apple.

    Oh, wait....

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  48. Crippling phones? by jDeepbeep · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's an app for that.

    --
    Reply to That ||
    1. Re:Crippling phones? by GuldKalle · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, but it's not in the appstore. It's duplicating built-in functionality.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Crippling phones? by Snufu · · Score: 1

      There's a patent app for that.

  49. This is bogus by kimvette · · Score: 1

    This is bogus. When you buy an iPhone you generally pay full price. It's not subsidized so the carrier has no $(*&^ing business crippling the phone, and Apple has no business crippling it on behalf of the carrier. It's disgusting that Apple is using tethering as one of the major selling points of the iPhone (which is odd, since I can tether my ancient Samsung "Sync" without any problem - AND get more bandwidth through it!) and they cripple it with the OS 3.1 update. That is a bait-and-switch regardless of where you live.

    Maybe in reaction to this Google can make Android even less restrictive. If they do that and really support their developers, and don't place all kinds of "duplication of native functionality" or "competes with Crapple" or "app is available elsewhere" restrictions that Apple and Palm have, they'll take over the market Apple is currently occupying. It'd be neat if they do that and then shut down Apple's access to google maps.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:This is bogus by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      what planet do you live on. only a couple of countries even offer an unsubsidized iPhone and almost all iPhones sold are subsidized.

      PS tethering works just fine so shut up

    2. Re:This is bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. install 3.1
      2. enable teth- oops, it's gone!

      PS it's broken wait not just broken but missing so shut up!

    3. Re:This is bogus by mjwx · · Score: 1

      This is bogus. When you buy an iPhone you generally pay full price.

      So, you pay about A$1000 just to get the phone?

      Otherwise the phone is subsidised. You get the phone for A$10 per month subsidised by a A$50 a month contract. Some carriers here in Australia actually subsides their own plans if you bring your own phone, I get the Three $30 plan for A$25 because I bought my own phone (HTC Dream, I really didn't want to go with Optus). Compared with the Optus plan for the Dream (A$60) I'll make up the cost of buying this phone over 24 months.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  50. Prior art by kimvette · · Score: 1

    Apple, this is chmod. chmod, this is Apple. Apple, chmod's nickname in this context is "prior art"

    Obvious to those skilled in the trade, not novel and therefore not patentable - at least not by law. Of course the USPTO will rubber stamp it.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  51. Consumers to blame... by kobotronic · · Score: 1

    ...if consumers did not implicitly agree to buying these crippled phones from the providers, these practices would not remain in vogue.

    I only bought an Android phone when I know I could get a rooted one with no guff and no crippled features. It still has a dumb country-specific limitation on the market place precluding paid apps for my area, but such things as tethering and VoIP apps seem be working fine with no restrictions on which networks I switch my data traffic.

    There is not excuse for the tethering restrictions, and in Europe most providers can offer unlimited data at small premiums. Why should it be different for US providers? They should simply price their data plans to match service provisioning cost.

    Cellphone carriers everywhere are notoriously greedy, but US providers are the worst and most expensive - and do not act in the interest of their users, whom they instead nickel and dime to death with outrageous service charges and all manners of designs for captive restraints.

    That Apple chooses to embrace this culture of consumer-hostile greed rather than fight against it shows us clearly what kind of corporation they are.

  52. My Experience by Slash.Poop · · Score: 1

    Recently I went into Verizon for a new phone. I told the guy I was interested in a "smart phone" but was not interested in paying for the "data plan". He explained that "if I bought any of their 'smart phones' I would automatically be charged the extra $30/month" for the 'data plan'. I explained to the guy that I did not need the data plan, particularly seeing how the phone I wanted had wireless. Along with many features that would have ZERO effect on Verizon's network. My argument went nowhere fast.

    How does this article tie into my experience? Simple, all cell phone providers are SCAM ARTISTS!

    1. Re:My Experience by Iowan41 · · Score: 1

      AND on top of that, they load software on your phone so that you can't use GPS with say competitor Google's Google Maps, but have to pay them 120 dollars a year to use their software. But for that I could buy a dedicated GPS. Is this even legal?

  53. security sucks by TRRosen · · Score: 1

    damn Apple for making a secure phone. NOte - if you read the patent its clear its for Apple's signing of the carriers config file that prevents hackers form using fake files to access network resources they didn't pay for that would steal bandwidth and functionality from others. ie tethering This is apart of the 3.1 OS and hasen't killed an one yet

  54. oh, they are patenting iPhone firmware v 3.1? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that seems to have crippled quite a number of cellphones!

  55. Crippling for Stolen Phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There should be the ability to permanently cripple stolen iPhones remotely, rendering them unusable. This would certainly deter theft.

  56. means just the opposite by TRRosen · · Score: 0

    Apple is refusing to cripple its phone for the carriers like most other manufacturers. This method is for signing the config file...by allowing the carrier to securely set the network settings Apple sells an phone uncrippled that only lacks the features not approved by the carrier when being used by that carrier (new carrrier = limits are gone) unlike if you get any other manufacturers Verizon phone that is crippled in firmware (take those to a new carrier stuff still doesn't work).

  57. Computing Ecosystems are the crux of by Bullfish · · Score: 1

    all this really. That Apple wants to do this is not out of character as others are pointing out. Nor is this type of thing out of context for things like telecos, and other traditional purveyors of things such as music, movies etc. They are used to a take our stuff the way it is, like it or lump it. Now these companies have gone into areas where the savvy consumer doesn't have to, like it or lump it. On the computing side of the game, the hard core "I want it the way I want it" is served by Linux. Apple sells it as "have it our way", while Windows both to their folly and benefit has tried to walk both sides of the street with mixed results. They are all running into difficulty with their philosophies with all this new tech... Apple doesn't want you doing certain things... well, tough darts, jail breaking exists and they don't like it. I need not go into the RIAA philosophy of such things and the rocks they have smashed up on... MS, well, sure they have DRM, but there's a hack for that! Linux, well, those traditional industries call Linux communist for a reason (in their minds)... In their minds, convergence was never supposed to be like this... Let them patent it, who gives a flying f*ck... Like all attempts to try to curtail people from using tech for their own purposes, this is fail

  58. Earth to Slashdot. This is for company rollouts. by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    I hate to rain on the tinfoil hat brigade parade but this is for "provisioning" iPhones to corporate or government users. This allows the admin setting up iPhones to place restrictions on what applications and network services can run. It has nothing to do with carriers or Apple taking away features from your personal iPhones.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  59. Actually?! by TRRosen · · Score: 1

    This may be closer to the truth then you think. Verizion has a long history of not allowing certain functions on phones. This is why nobody wants a used Verizon phone because so much is disabled. This would allow Apple to still make one iPhone with one OS and one firmware but allow Verizion to place its own mandated limits on the ones used on its networks. Thus allowing Verizon to be known as the evil network and AT&T the freedom loving patriot ( quite a switch)

    1. Re:Actually?! by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      This may be closer to the truth then you think. Verizion has a long history of not allowing certain functions on phones. This is why nobody wants a used Verizon phone because so much is disabled. This would allow Apple to still make one iPhone with one OS and one firmware but allow Verizion to place its own mandated limits on the ones used on its networks. Thus allowing Verizon to be known as the evil network and AT&T the freedom loving patriot ( quite a switch)

      Actually, EVERY carrier has certain restrictions on features on their phones. Some are more anal than others (e.g., the "send" key must be a certain shade of green). Now, GSM carriers aren't as powerful in demanding that certain features be dropped - they can only demand it of phones sold through them. That's because a GSM carrier pretty much has to accept any phone that's compatible and takes their SIM. CDMA carriers, most of them anyhow (there's a few that accept RUIMs), can simply not activate phones that weren't bought through them. The one exception would be country-wide requirements (e.g., China and WiFi must support China's encryption standard).

      You can get fully-unlocked GSM phones with all features the carrier wanted to ban.

      The other thing is... why'd it take so long? Surely some engineer out there already saw the need to do one build per carrier (yes, I've seen this) and would want to do it so they only need one build.

  60. It's just leverage against carriers by iSynic · · Score: 1

    This is very much self-defensive. If Apple owns the patent on this, it dissuades carriers from crippling the phone. If they try, Apple makes a premium on top of whatever they're making from selling to them.

  61. old news by TRRosen · · Score: 1

    Apple implemented this in OS 3.1 and the earth still rotates around its axis.

  62. Blackberries already do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's wack-ass limitations like how many bytes can be downloaded, what can be installed, etc. I can't see how this is patentable. Its called a sandbox people.

  63. Every time a patents story runs on /. by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    . . . everyone seems to misunderstand the patent system. Now, I'm no patent lawyer, but I have at least some basic understanding.

    I believe that Apple doesn't have a grand, generic patent on any possible scheme to cripple cellphones. It's close to impossible to get a universal patent covering an abstract idea, unless the nature of the idea is such that there is only one possible way to accomplish it (which is very rare). Patent's are required to included a list of claims, which is a fairly specific, technical listing of how the 'invention' is implemented. If you can come up with a way to accomplish the same goal using different techniques, then I believe you don't infringe the patent. In fact, I think you need only differ by one claim, and the rest of the patent could be the same, and it would still be considered non-infringing (again, I am not a patent lawyer, but that seems to be what all the patent lawyers I've seen write articles about these sort of patents indicate).

    When discussing patents, the first thing anyone should do is *read the patent*, which, this being /., no one does, apparently.

      They have a patent on a particular scheme. One that involves a signed blacklist file which specifies resources/apps which *are not* allowed, while, one presumes, everything else is allowed.

    So, one way to avoid the Apple patent, it would appear, is to switch to a whitelist model where everything is disallowed unless specifically allowed by the provisioning profile. That actually sounds much more like the way the control freaks at the mobile carriers would probably prefer to screw their customers, so if they wanted to do that, I don't *think* this patent would stop them. I'm sure someone could come up with other schemes, even, which would not infringe the particular scheme Apple is using.

  64. Recursive by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I just have to Patent Patents, then the world will be mine!

    That is unless someone figures out that you can Patent Patent Patents, then I am screwed!

  65. The evil scale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How evil is Apple? Well, on a scale of Google to Microsoft, I would say that this move ranks about an SCO.

  66. WTF? by Aradiel · · Score: 1

    Only one word springs to mind here: Why? I had a sim card that didn't support MMS. Did it cripple my phone with MMS capabilities, by imposing restrictions? No, it just didn't work because the service wasn't supported as a feature. What's wrong with that system?

  67. iPhone comming to Verizon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    obviously an iPhone is comming to Verizon, as to be allowed on Verizon it must be crippled. Probably also tethering will never come to AT&T.

  68. Jailbreak / Tether Hack by Halotron1 · · Score: 1

    Sounds like they're working on trying to give AT&T a way to shut down iPhones that either loaded the tethering hack for 3.0, or are jailbroken for tethering.

  69. Cuda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wow... what a bunch of cry babies..

    None one here can see this is just part of the iPhone in Enterprise development. This anti-apple fad is getting to be nauseous.

  70. Apple did get a patent for this by KiwiCanuck · · Score: 1

    it's called the iPhone.

  71. Apple's new motto by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Funny

    Do No Evil - unless your Apple

  72. Ahhg by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    Do No Evil - unless you're Apple

    The parent was ahh ... some kind of Garden of Eden joke.

    1. Re:Ahhg by geekoid · · Score: 1

      The apple was knowledge. God was the evil one in that story.
      The serpent allowed us to think for ourselves.

      I am actually an Atheist, but I haven't always been. I have had nuns try to explain why God wasn't evil in that scenario and they never could.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  73. Crippling Renegade VOIP?? by catchblue22 · · Score: 1

    One could speculate that mobile carriers are scared to death of VOIP becoming possible on jailbroken iphones, such that they would want to be able to disable such features on phones on their networks. I suspect that this would be the ultimate reason why Apple would like the power to remotely cripple apps. It is evil behavior, no doubt. But I doubt Apple would care if it weren't for the mobile companies wanting to maintain their absurd uneven charges for different types of bits. The best way to stop such evil behavior is via government regulation. There will never be enough mobile carriers to allow true competition.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
  74. Paging Mr. Carter... by retrobob · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't this be a patent granting them the legal ability to do what the Carterfone decision forbade AT&T?

  75. Kill the smartphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps these sorts of actions will finally bring about the downfall of the abominations that are "smartphones", and we'll see a return to the sensible and logical separation of CellPhone and PDA. And that way you'll be able to get a PDA back at it's reasonable price point, rather than the 3x-4x pricing that has become the result of the rush to smartphones.

    Look at the price of a cellphone with someone like TracFone. There's the logical price a cellphone should be, the calling rates being the only thing we should be seeing the carriers competing on.

    1. Re:Kill the smartphones by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      Perhaps these sorts of actions will finally bring about the downfall of the abominations that are "smartphones", and we'll see a return to the sensible and logical separation of CellPhone and PDA. And that way you'll be able to get a PDA back at it's reasonable price point, rather than the 3x-4x pricing that has become the result of the rush to smartphones.

      Look at the price of a cellphone with someone like TracFone. There's the logical price a cellphone should be, the calling rates being the only thing we should be seeing the carriers competing on.

      What would be a reasonable price point? Can you get a PDA with a touch interface for 99 bucks? Would the PDA be able to get email over the air? If so, isn't that just a smartphone sans voice calls? I had numerous cell "phones" like you describe. No thank you. I hated their UIs. It was a pain trying to enter in contacts or to text.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  76. RIM beat them to it... by dasunst3r · · Score: 1

    From my understanding, a BlackBerry linked to a BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server) can have "policies" pushed down to them like restrictions on program installation, camera usage, etc. If that's the case, then this patent would be invalid.

  77. INteresting thought by geekoid · · Score: 1

    I can't hepl but notice, the more Jobs is in control of Apple the better it does. Most things people hate about Apple happen when Stvev Jobs wasn't running things tightly.

    When he returned to Apple he turned them around. Used BSD, created cool cutting edge devices, Apple became more open.

    Now that he is ill and not managing every detail like he used to , all the middle managers seem to be coming our and making everything mediocre.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  78. Apple - Just Doesn't Work! by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    Apple - It Just Doesn't Work!

    Apple have pioneered the new feature of Just Doesn't Work! True, many other companies have provided phones and computers with features that were crippled or otherwise didn't work, but Apple were the first ones to popularise it. They were the first ones to integrate it so it didn't work properly, and provide a seemless user experience of not working. Other phones, you have to really try to break them, but Apple have perfected it - so that crippling your phone Just Works, so that it Just Doesn't Work. That's right, it Doesn't Work Just Works.

  79. prior art? by pbjones · · Score: 1

    can't a number of pay TV companies remotely control what features/material your set-top box has or has not? Or phone companies that add features or content via SIMs etc?

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  80. Apple, AT&T, and Antics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The company logically has every right to do this. From a PR perspective, I don't think it's a good decision, but I'm a college student, so what do I know in my feeble liberal brain? Does the company ethically have the right to do this? In my personal opinion, no. But from a business standpoint, and from the POV of the carrier network (notice the singular), having so many applications accessing the network simultaneously, well, that gets expensive. Not only in terms of dollars, but also of bandwidth and resources which can lead to more costs for hardware upgrades, towers, etc. And when AT&T has to fork over 400$ per device regardless of what the user pays upfront, it takes a few months of service on their jacked up iPhone plan to cover that cost. Adding this to the cost of providing service for the numerous apps (as well as the fact that iPhone users are absolutely RIDICULOUS about texting and web surfing), the profits don't seem so large. What makes this wrong is that Apple mentions "carriers" rather than AT&T to avoid saying that AT&T has its hand up their hindparts. This is clearly collusion. AT&T is having trouble maintaining that amount of bandwidth. They analyze their traffic and report their findings to Apple. I'm sure a number of threats and nasty e-mails were sent between complementary iPhones before it was decided at Apple that they would handle this with the maximum possible amount of finesse: restrict the user and developer.

  81. prior art by alizard · · Score: 1

    I've got a Motorola cell phone with Bluetooth via Tracfone that can't be tethered. Apple didn't invent pre-crippled cellphones.

  82. Apple always has a new reason not to buy Apple by Eric+Elliott · · Score: 1

    With perfect timing Apple renews my decision not to buy Apple.

  83. Steve Jobs is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He feels a bit grumpy

  84. Please dump IPhone already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They used to do this in secretly. Now, they even tell you that we have the right of the world to do so... suck it up!

  85. Is Slashdot becoming "Coast to Coast"? by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

    Everything Apple does is Evil, obviously, because Martian hybrids are trying to have sex with you. Evil? This is about a company protecting itself when a phone is lost or stolen, and it's also about YOU being able to disable your iPhone for the f*cking thieves who stole your phone and could be phoning your girlfriend and finding out all your personal information. Screw 'em, let them have a brick with GPS. People obviously haven't been doing any critical thinking here. Can software that bricks an iPhone be used for evil? Of course. But the function has to exist. Nothing Evil here, folks.

    Oh, let's see: "it may be necessary to remove functionality of an app?" Well, what about if a bit of spyware gets put into an app? I'd like Apple to disable it, reimburse me, and toss the programmer off the store. And sue him. And brick his iPhone, too.

    Really, there are a number of people on these forums who are so sure that whatever Apple does is evil that they have to say any number of silly things.