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When Do You Fire a Headhunter?
Captain Sarcastic writes "I have been a contract programmer for a few years (with some time off when a contract-for-hire paid off and made me a full-time employee). Currently, I'm between projects, but I'm a little worried about one of the contracting companies who's helping me. First off, a little history. "Zeke" (not his real name) was with ABC Contractors (not their real name) when I first met him, and he took my resume and started processing me through the jobs that ABC had available. A bit later, Zeke left, and his replacement Yvonne (standard disclaimer) submitted me to a company (call them "Acme") for a contract-for-hire. Everything looked like a good fit, and she E-mailed me a copy of the resume they submitted to Acme. Came the interview, I realized that Zeke had left out part of my history and had mis-dated other aspects, to keep me from appearing unemployed. Like an idiot, I tried to correct this at the interview, to find out that Acme had decided that I had fabricated all of my experience, and chewed out the rep for ABC for sending an unqualified applicant. Fine, learning experience for me — double-check what the contracting company says about you, and don't try to correct things in the middle of the interview." Read below for the rest of the story. What other difficulties have others gone through with headhunters and when is it time to leave one behind?
A couple months later, Zeke contacted me from his new position with Blue-Sky Consultants (standard disclaimer), and sent me on a couple of interviews. Once again, I found out he'd "corrected" my resume — the same way he did with ABC. I raised the issue with him, and he apologized and said he'd correct the resume, and he's submitted me for other positions, but none seem to have gotten to the interview stage. I suspect that he's not trying very hard, and I wonder if he's soft-pedaling submissions for me to keep his own bosses from recognizing he'd altered my resume. So, I have the following questions:
- Am I suspecting malice and/or clumsiness where a competitive market is the true suspect? (An answer of yes would be harder on my ego, but a relief.)
- Do headhunters modify resumes, and if so, should I just shut up and go with what the headhunter says? (I was always told that eventually, the truth comes out, so I'd be uncomfortable doing that, but life isn't always comfortable.)
- Should I tell Zeke to get lost and stay that way? (I was always told that making enemies unnecessarily was "considered harmful", but I get the impression that Zeke isn't a friend).
- Have fellow Slashdotters dealt with similar situations?
We see dishonesty from head hunters all the time. Personally I'd much rather if there was a mistake on your resume as we have it in front of us, that you point it out. For this reason, it's always good to go to an interview with 5 or so copies of your resume. If you try to cover for the contracting company's rep, now you're starting your relationship with me out by lying and covering something up. Unless you really are trying to cover something up, I guess =).
Especially if you bring correct copies with you, I would easily believe the contracting company misrepresented you. If you're still a fit for the job, I'll be happy to talk to you.
Also, as soon as a contracting company knowingly falsifies data about you or otherwise misrepresents you, make it clear to them that the first time was the last time. If they keep it up, drop them. Unless you're willing to move around the country a lot, there are only so many companies in a given area which are likely to have skill sets that line up with yours. You don't want your contracting company closing doors on you.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
Should I tell Zeke to get lost and stay that way? (I was always told that making enemies unnecessarily was "considered harmful", but I get the impression that Zeke isn't a friend).
That's not 'unnecessary'... the guy screwed you. Never work with him again, and advise any friends to do the same.
Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
honesty wont get you anywhere. why the fuck did you try correct it? it wouldn't bite you in the ass if you played your cards right and worked hard. they'd just overlook it if they ever found out the truth
Look, this guy has already proved that he isn't very good. So lose him.
Find a new agency and go talk to a lawyer. Depending upon the law in your state, you may have grounds to sue the headhunting firm--and not just for money, but for a written apology and retraction to the company that you interviewed with. Your reputation in the market is crucial, and they just screwed yours.
Fire them immediately upon the first misrepresentation.
Sadly - the economy is driving some to engage in some unethical behavior.
Just last month - i was shown a job posting derived from Dice - and the agency quoted me a rate which was acceptable.
I go for the interview ( driving 480 miles ) and they call me to say there has been a restatement ( BDO ? )
The rate is now $15 less per hour.
I objected and decided to sell the job. At no time did I accept their posting.
The customer called and wanted my services - but the agency felt they could have a larger margin since the economy was bad.
They suck and I'm working - though not at the preferred assignment.
Why work with just one? Get another. Keep Zeke around in case he does something useful.
He fabricated information. That reflected badly on you.
This is beyond unprofessional, this is beyond unethical, you should not have dealt with this guy after the first incident.
If the guy you hired to represent you did so falsely and possibly did more harm to your reputation in your local market than good, you need to let them know and dump them. I think you did the right thing by correcting the resume in the interview. Anything else would have been your lie, not "Zeke's."
When do you fire a headhunter?
When you no longer trust them to represent you.
Look, this isn't a marriage - you didn't promise "...til death do you part." There are no therapists specializing in helping estranged contractors/headhunters work out their problems. It's a business relationship; if they aren't producing, find someone who will. /frank
And the worms ate into his brain.
Headhunters will change and brand your resume! It's happened to me many times. The also will demand a Word formatted resume -- which is ironic for a web developer position!
And they wonder why everybody, on both sides of the contract, hates them.
[1] they're paid on commission from the employers - so that's who they "work" for.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
I have owned a recruiting firm (sold it because I miss working in technology) and can tell you that most headhunters do not ever have your interest in mind. They are trying to fill a slot and make a commission from the company, no more. With the current economy you as a job seeker / contractor is a commodity that is fairly easy to find right now and will pass you over pretty quickly with little resistance unless you mean $$ to them.
There are all types of recruiting firms and you have to remember that they are trying to sell the contracting position twice.
1) You to the company
2) The company to you
The best advice I can give you is no matter what they tell you they are a sales people and to be cordial but always realize that they are there for one reason to place a body in position and reap the rewards. Also never put your eggs in one basket. Make contacts with many firms and find how/what fits for you.
I hope this helps!
If it isn't broke, tinker with it till it is!
I follow the three-head rule; if you can't give me three heads shrunken down and stitched up to my QA-Approved Design Specifications, then pack up your grass skirt and nose-bone buddy!
"When I am king, you will be first against the wall..."
Always take a copy of your CV or resume to an interview: I've yet to be interviewed somewhere where the agency hasn't "tweaked" my CV in some way or another (and I've been on the receiving end as well - we were looking for a PHP programmer and the agency sent someone with a good looking CV - apart from the fact they had changed all mentions of Java to PHP: totally misrepresenting the candidate). Plus it's useful to have your own CV to refer to "just in case".
Alternatively, don't forget to promote yourself on sites such as http://linkedin.com/ and http://careers.stackoverflow.com/ - build up your own client base and get to keep the 10-25% the agency "skims" for just download bunches of CVs from job sites, adding their logo and sending them on.
No matter what the headhunter or someone else does, your integrity is attached to you as an individual. If you are dishonest, nobody thinks 'ABC contractor is dishonest', they think 'Captain Sarcastic is dishonest', and that follows you when you leave ABC. In fact, if they are being dishonest or even just reckless with the truth, I would avoid association with ABC; that also might follow you wherever you go.
You also should demonstrate good judgment by avoiding embarrassing ABC, but if pressed, just say 'I'm sorry, there must have been some miscommunication, my real experience is ...' or 'there must be some mistake, let me get you a corrected resume'. Don't speculate on ABC's motives, which you probably don't know anyway. (and don't need to know; intentionally or not, ABC is unreliable). Even silently allowing important mistatements to pass is deceitful.
Integrity is a necessary trait for anyone I work with. Others certainly don't mind or even admire someone who can deceive effectively; if someone like that hires you, you know what to expect from them.
When I'm actively looking for a new gig (I'm a contract programmer too), I do not sit and wait for some headhunter I already talked to, to call me again. I continue aggressively pursuing all leads that open up to me.
So, if a headhunter screws something up for me, I just make a mental note, and continue looking. The next time he calls me, I just explain why what he did was counterproductive, and didn't accomplish anything for him, or for me. No need to get emotional about it. It's business. Because X happened, next time, I'm going to do Y, and you'll need to do Z.
Thanks for calling. Bye.
I've never had a bad experience with a headhunter, and I've never paid one a dime. The only ones I've even talked with are working on behalf of the company that is trying to hire someone. Sooooo, I would say that the moment they ask you for money you should drop them.
The only real problem I have had lately is with low ball offers trying to get
a bigger margin. You know darn well none of them are charging any less but
using the market conditions to low ball contractors. In fact I had one
today try to drop 5 bucks off a already agreed upon rate just to see
if I would take the bait to increase his margin. That is about the quickest
way to get on my ignore list.
Got Code?
Believe it or not, headhunters do this all the time. There are also these so called "consultants" that make you take an online certification exam and provide you with answers and then claim you as an expert in that area. This is disgusting, but true. Coming back to your case, in my opinion, you should 1) Get away from this guy, he is dishonest. When you go to another place, make sure you tell them that you would not like your resume altered to the point that it is incorrect/dishonest. 2) There are professional resume makers out there. Some of them are very expensive, some are reasonable. Maybe you could use their services to improve your resume and try to look for jobs yourself. There are a number of websites out there that collate job openings from other websites , this way you can see a lot of openings on one site. Job searching is pretty advanced now and its not too hard to look for positions , even contract positions by yourself.
Specialized headhunters sometimes do the job properly. At least here they have the decency to ask for a pdf-based CV and copy it by hand into their database. They also usually don't have any concrete numbers for a salary, they just send you to the company and they get paid by the companies for this.
I have built my reputation on my brutal honesty. I've been overlooked and even fired for it. I'm fine with that. Zeke would hear my wrath if I found out that he lied on my behalf. There would be no point in discussing Zeke's mistake with him if I didn't hope for an opportunity to turn the episode into an understanding. How Zeke dealt with my angry tirade will define if I use his services again.
Look at it this way: If you lie on your resume, the company is within its rights to fire you as soon as they find out, without notice and without recourse on your side, even if you are doing an excellent job, and the courts have said that the company can retract any bonus paid to you while you work for them. Altering your resume in factual areas is basically jeopardizing your employment for the entire time you work with the company that he finds for you, and potentially your entire future career. Elsewhere here there is advice to bring copies of your correct resume with you and hand them out if it turns out you are being interviewed on the basis of a fabricated one; that's a good start, as it covers your butt and warns that company against that headhunter.
Sorry to break it to you, but you're already been fired from Company ABC. Or at the very least you're now on the C squad, the guy they send in at the last resort.
Also, I would not just use one company. If I'm hunting for a job I usually go for two companies. Make sure they understand that in this market you're not just sitting home twiddling your thumbs and that they better call you before submitting a resume. Outside that, move on. If company "ABC" always calls you before a submission I wouldn't even tell them you've "Fired" them.
Headhunters provide a matching service for which you and your client (the company) will pay -dearly-. On a $45/hr bid, they'll charge $20/hr for the -life of the contract!- Pretty rich for people who scan job postings, run word matches and typically don't even read your resume before submitting it.
Indeed, that's an interesting twist. At least this guy DID read the resume. That's uncommon. Granted he lies about it, but it's still more than many do.
A lot of companies won't even take calls from headhunters. You may be shooting yourself in the foot by hiring one in the first place.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
When one of the headhunters finds what you're looking for but doesn't tell you, and then hides in your garbage, it might be tempting to fire them - but it's important to remember that headhunters are very clever - by following the target discreetly in this fashion it is more probable that the target will grow complacent, and thus vulnerable to a trap.
Bow-ties are cool.
Seriously, most people don't change so the first time I caught this guy outright lying I would have dumped him (and changing your resume is not a mistake or an oops). Who knows what other lies he is telling to other people, I would steer clear.
If a company has previously decided that a headhunter refers unqualified clients, or edits resumes, or whatever else they find distasteful, they will be less likely to consider any resume that s/he sends. Best bet is to fire Zeke and find a headhunter with a good reputation.
He once inserted random mutations into his code, just so he could have the experience of debugging.
...but I personally would not think it was acceptable for them to edit a resume without collaborating with the candidate. If they want to suggest changes and work with them, that's one thing, but changes without the candidate's knowledge are a totally different matter.
Also, from the interviewer's point, they probably don't have the time or interest to weed through "why" it's wrong. And yeah, they may check in the future, and if stuff does not line up you might be held accountable for it. So even from an interviewer's point of view, it creates a potential problem. I would find another recruiting firm if you think it is beneficial to use one (I don't, necessarily, but it depends on your career and the types of companies you are looking for).
P.S. To question 3 - the recruiter is not your friend.
Let me get this right, for almost 39 weeks now, we've been seeing an additional 500,000 people unemployed every two weeks. I can't pick up a paper without reading about more layoffs...
Rather than answer the question, I'd like to pose another one: Why are headhunters even needed?
I am an employer. I can't imagine using a headhunter right now. Why? Because there are millions of people to choose from. I don't need help finding people at all. There are more jobs than people. Call me when there are more people than jobs. That's when I need (and will pay for) a headhunter. I am 100% certain I am not alone.
Methinks the headhunters are duping people into thinking there are more opportunities than there really are. I mean just stop for a second and think about the entire headhunting business: the employer pays a recruiter to go find him qualified candidates. Note, the employer pays for this service (usually 1 months salary, ymmv)
Who the hell is doing that right now? Answer: nobody.
It just an industry that is currently unnecessary. Surely, it will be needed again. But not for a while. Anyone using one to currently find a job is probably doing worse than they could do on their own. So the answer to TFA is: fire them now.
Even a cursory reading through a job board will tell you that many people want and expect to be lied to. Now, if someone lies to you, they only lose out if you catch them. If someone tells the truth to someone who wants to be lied to, they're guaranteed to lose out. Companies that use headhunters will disproportionately, if not always be the latter.
In almost every situation, a Recruiter is not working for you. The employer is the customer, and you are the commodity. So you can't really "fire" a headhunter. You can stop working with him, though. In this case, you absolutely should-- in fact, you should have after the first time his unethical behavior cost you a job.
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Employers will quickly catch on to this type of dishonesty.
IMHO it makes you look bad to be presented to an employer by a recruiter who is doing this.
I would just find another (and more reputable) agency/recruiter.
We have a few recruiters sending us resumes. The only time we ever get good people from them are when there are lots of people sending us resumes directly. This puts us in the situation where we have to decide between someone with an artificially inflated salary and significantly higher risk profile if they quit in that first year.
We also have the very real risk that the recruiter starts playing both sides of the game and going after our employees. Far too many of them are really unethical.
We now just try and spam-block them on email and phone systems it has gotten so bad.
Always do leg work yourself and never rely on just a recruiter. More leg work gives you much better exposure than a recruiter ever will. But I am in a different industry (consulting engineering), so YMMV.
I once was working with a headhunter (after being laid off). When I sat down with them and went over what I was looking for, I flat out told them NO DATABASE -- I didn't know any DB at the time.
So they send me out on this interview. And I get to the place and guess what? When they explain what the position is for, it's a DB position. So the very first thing I do is thank them, and tell them that I'm a bad fit, and apologize for wasting their time.
The very next thing I did (after I got home -- pre Cell phone) was to call the headhunter agency, and tell them they were fired.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
You don't have to lie to meet the job qualifications. Say they want 10+ years experience with .net. Just get the job on the condition of telecommuting and outsource the job to China. You can get 10 Chinese with 1 year experience each to do your job and meet the qualifications.
If you are lying to a company in order to satisfy some requirement of theirs you think might be silly, then they probably aren't a good fit for you anyway.
Overselling yourself is just going to make life hard for yourself. We've hired a number of people who have oversold themselves and I think some do so because they are cocky (blah, how hard could it be?), or because they are simply ignorant of what the job entails. They flounder and eventually get let go.
Find companies that share your sensibilities and be honest with them about what you can do and where you want to go in the long term.
You can use what every euphemism you want... doctoring, massaging, fluffing, polishing, etc the resume (they're all as dirty as they sound). Potential employers all call it *lying*. There are several things you need to keep in mind here.
1. You probably just killed any chance of getting hired with that company, ever. If you walk into an interview and impress them, they'll usually keep you on a short list and even try to find appropriate matches for you. If you lie (doesn't matter if it was you or the headhunter), you go on the black list.
2. HR departments may not talk to each other but technical staff certainly do. I'm originally from the DFW area and it's basically six degrees of telecom employment. If you make a substantial impression, good or bad, other people are going to find out about it.
3. Ultimately... represent yourself. It's a lot more work, but you pick who you engage and how you engage them. You're going to pick engagements that benefit you. Headhunters don't care... the want their cut and then they move on. If you're serious about contracting you need to build personal relationships and trade on that reputation.
Finally, I'd report these clowns to the BBB. If you have a good relationship with a lawyer you might want to get their opinion on this. The headhunter is acting as an agent on your behalf and if they doctored your resume you may actually have some legal recourse (IANAL).
I office in the middle of a headhunter firm right now, and I just finished having lunch with one a couple days ago where she talked to me about their business. Here is the summary:
1) They just match your name and experience against a request from a client -- it's all keyword search all the time.
2) Skip the cover letter, it wastes their time -- just a 'I'm looking for work in these areas' will do fine, thank you
3) E-mailing the Resume is the way to go, there are well established processes to get your e-mail in the system
4) Send out resumes to as many recruiters as you can stomach -- companies frequently just use one recruiter, so you need to make sure that you fulfill the breadth side of the equation by getting onto as many databases as possible.
5) Recruiters hate hard questions and anomalies and prefer no hassle. This is probably why your resume is getting edited, even though it's an unethical thing to do.
Okay, so all that said, I would recommend you:
a) Make something useful sounding that you can say you've been doing in your non-work time, like an open source project, or a website catering to charities who want to learn about technology, or whatever. You can then gloss your layoff time at the end, saying "when I am not working, I volunteer with ... or build this cool ". This is the ethical version of lying on your resume
b) Complain to the recruiter's boss, but don't expect to get anywhere.
c) Think like a swinger man -- the more the merrier! Get out there and find 30 tech recruiters. They certainly aren't more committed to you than that.
The day before you hire him.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
The premise of the question asks when to fire a head hunter. That leads me to believe that they have been hired, and are being paid. I've never paid for a head hunter and I get at least one or two job offers a month. I have my resume up on Dice and a few other sites, and over the course of the last couple of years I have submitted my resume for some positions advertised on Dice. Often times those positions are just reposted by hiring agencies and when I apply for the job, they keep my resume on file. Some of them have been pretty worthless, like CyberCoders. Others have been fairly competent, like TekSystems. The TekSystems recruiter I worked with really helped me come up with a good format for my resume. My latest job opportunity came in through LinkedIn of all places.
1. Am I suspecting malice and/or clumsiness where a competitive market is the true suspect? (An answer of yes would be harder on my ego, but a relief.)
Both,
The market is competitive, and often the requirements are insane, because companies know great people are looking for jobs and they have the time to find the perfect fit. However, for each time they submit your name in the pot, he is screwing you out of a potential future job with that company. Many companies do actually keep that resume on file and match to see if you submitted before or someone else. Many do not like double submissions. If you get marked down as a liar, you might be black listed. Clearly, he screwed you with at least one company.
2. Do headhunters modify resumes, and if so, should I just shut up and go with what the headhunter says? (I was always told that eventually, the truth comes out, so I'd be uncomfortable doing that, but life isn't always comfortable.)
Many do not modify them, themselves. They have you modify them often. For example, when I used to go the head-hunter route, I would submit a 'general' resume so I hit on as many possible key words. Then when I get the call from them, I will talk about my history in more detail and the positions they have. Usually the general resume is not submittable for a job. For example, they are trying to find a Database Analyst, then I will strip out other parts and write in more the DBA work I have done. I do not lie, but I try to find where I fit. If they are modifying your resume, they are not representing you, they are only hurting you so that they may get their money.
3. Should I tell Zeke to get lost and stay that way? (I was always told that making enemies unnecessarily was "considered harmful", but I get the impression that Zeke isn't a friend).
Tell him to get lost.
4. Have fellow Slashdotters dealt with similar situations?
Yes, the recruiters are usually bulk guys/gals who do not know much, but do most of the leg work. It is the managers in those companies that actually know what they are doing. If you are not talking to them from time to time, or the recruiter is shielding you from them, they are often screwing you, especially if it continues past a first submission and no interview, or talking takes more then a week.
Because you never hire one. Because that would mean you would need to hire a headhunter first. Or else your headhunter will not be specially selected for greatness, and thus fail to select a specially selected headhunter or other person for greatness. But you can't hire that headhunter because you don't have a headhunter. Because... *fast forward* becthawomeywonethiahedutefioeyueauallnbes$i%os+n|r:r_e{e@a_... *head explodes* ...
Wait, let me start again... *rewinds* ...
Because you never hire one. Because that would mean you FAIL.
(Aaaah, that's better... No stupid reasoning and thinking. Man, the Internet is great!)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
About three fuck-ups ago.
-Peter
Yeah, it's not a good deal for employee or employer. Plus, there are a lot of recruiters who don't add any value in terms of finding you a position. They pretend to, but don't, have a better "in" with employers than you have. They troll job boards, company sites, LinkedIn and the like - which you could do just as well, and cut out the middleman. Even better, use your own network - people who know you and your skills. Personally I've never been hired through a headhunter, as employee or contractor. I have worked with them occasionally when I've been on the hiring side - sometimes they do dig up good candidates but usually not.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I've had recruiters/headhunters who read through my resume, bring me in for an interview, have me spell out for them in detail what my experience and skills are, then stare at me blankly for a few moments and ask me in all seriousness "So what do you do?". I'm not kidding you. It would be helpful if these people were more than just salespeople/paper-pushers, it would help if they had some idea of what the work entails.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
I think fudging your resume is a big red flag.
If they're lying to clients, they're probably lying to you.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
You correct it. You take your lumps with this employer. And you drop the guy who hacked your resume.
It's OK so shorten your resume. It's not OK to falsify anything on it.
You should have dropped 'em the first time. Now that you know this guy fakes resumes you should never touch him again.
You may be having trouble now because there's two versions of your resume getting to some HR departments and you're flagged as a fake. If you keep getting no-replies you may need to include a cover letter explaining that a(n unnamed) headhunter had previously "enhanced" your resume and circulated this false version, that this one is true and correct, and you no longer do business with him.
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I've known some good recruiters and a lot of mediocre ones, but I'll tell you one thing they all have in common. They all tell me how important it is for us to coordinate on making the approach to a prospective client/employer.
It's entirely possible that I will find the prospect on my own, and it's always in my interest to do so. The recruiter meanwhile gets some mileage simply from being able to say to a client, "Look, here's a synopsis of all the great candidates we have for you. Let me know if you're interested in any of them." A long and illustrious list is impressive. Having my credentials on there adds to its value, even if nothing else ever develops.
In return, I have an arrangement with the recruiter in which he or she checks in with me to get permission to send the client my resume and talk about setting up a meeting. That's our chance to be sure we're not both making the approach at the same time, because the optics if we were to do that would not be good.
Recruiters will claim that what they offer is relationship. The better ones live up to this claim, and those are the ones who understand the need for the sort of arrangement I've described. It's not me coordinating with them, it's them coordinating with me. It's not reasonable for me to call them up every time I sent off a resume to some firm. At that rate, there would be half a dozen calls a day sometimes.
I'll call them when I become unavailable. That seems like a reasonable courtesy to me, and moreover it makes me look good, so there's a logic under which that becomes the behavior expected from professionals. Conversely, it certainly would not be reasonable for them to approach a client without my knowledge and without having checked in with me. That's just dumb on their part. That's no relationship. Sending me in cold, without getting our story absolutely straight beforehand, is a good way to make them and me look bad.
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
You should have asked ACME which head hunters they have the most success getting candidates from. Ask this at every interview. A pattern will likely emerge with respect to the headhunters and the jobs you think are a good fit. These are the headhunters you should be working with.
Up to now I though a headhunter was someone who was actively looking for people for hard to fill positions, i.e., hunting their heads to satisfy special needs of the companies that pay them for this service.
Someone looking for a job for you sounds more like a pimp. Not a headhunter.
Please enlighten me.
Geeze. I've had a similar experience that I managed to skate my way through. My skills are pretty simple, C/C++, Fortran, COBOL, several assembler dialects, some embedded work and quite a bit of device driver writing. I have a super strong UNIX and VMS background. Okay, you should get a feel for it, add 14+ years of solid employment and an incomplete Ph.D. I have this slave trader, lets call him "Jim" (As in simple .. Goon show style), that decides I'd be perfect for a role that he has. Okay, what's it about?
Jim: They'd like someone with a strong programming background (check), knows a command line (check), bit of dbase (not strong..but will bring knowledge upto par very fast) and a small amount of VB.
Me: VB's my weak one there. No real commercial experience. First and last time I touched it was college and that was VB3 or VB4 for a unit called "Visial Programming" *Snort!*. It's changed a lot.
Jim: That's fine.. you'll pick it up. It's a minor thing. They're super picky and your CV pretty well dove-tails what they need *wank wank wank*
Me: Okay, put me forward. (They have to ask permission, welcome to Australia).
Interview. I get lickered up. Even showered this month! Print out half a dozen copies of my CV, plenty of sleep and roll up for the meet'n'greet.
Company is pretty much in the hiring mood and are despo due to deadlines and $OTHER_CIRCUMSTANCES. There is chat to get an emotional feel for each other. I'm interested in what they do.. environments, systems, history (I have done my homework on their products, market position, so many questions ensue). Then comes the kicker. "We're really really impressed with your 14 years of VB skills, and you've been with it for so long. Jim's company has never sent us a bad recruit this highly recommended although we've only placed with Jim once."
Wow there tiger, hang on.. VB skills? 14 years? no.. Pardon me for a moment, I believe you've been miss-led and I've been mis-represented, May I have one of your spare CV's, lets trade, here's what it "should" look like. To say "Major Radical Surgery" is a fair assessment. So, without malice we went through it calmly. I Said, "I have a completely different skill-set and do not feel competent with this role. I am though fairly interested in it, but I suspect your not in the luxurious position to let someone "train-up" so I feel I am the incorrect candidate." This hurt because I was getting a bit hungry money/food wise but hey! I've been lied about and now I have to come good on their lies if I get the thing. I also recommended that the company have a strong word with "Jim's" Dream Leader before he attempts to destroy other placements.
I didn't even get a chance to get home, through the door and phone Jim before the phone was ringing crazily. He was extremely abusive. I suspect his future at the Slave-traders was not very certain after that.
Remember, you have the skills. Be honourable. You need to measure up to their representation. If they are not being forthright and representing you honourably, pull them into line. Also, try a few. Once they know your interviewing for some other slave-trader, they tend to work harder to place you and cop the fee before joe-six-pack up the street manages to snaffle you. It's your life! :) 3
There are more jobs than people. Call me when there are more people than jobs. That's when I need (and will pay for) a headhunter.
Riiing
"Fire" a headhunter? Implying that you only have one? My experience is that some recruiters are good, some are bad and some are middling. If you're looking for work, I've always found it much more advantageous to have as many applications (to relevant positions only, obviously) out as possible, with multiple recruiters, and to keep track of what companies your application has gone into yourself, to ensure you're not double-submitted. Far more effective.
The head hunter won't have your best interest in mind, they are looking for money to act as the middle man. If they are altering your resume, I'd avoid working with them in the future. No need to tell someone to get lost, but you may want to resend your corrected resume, and only in pdf format (not fool proof, but I doubt many head hunters would change that). I tend to avoid working with people that demand my resume in Word format. And I'd only follow up on leads from them when you have nothing better to do.
And as others have suggested, have a copy of your original resume for any clients to see if you discover they received an altered version. If the client goes ballistic on you because of something the head hunter did, you didn't want to work for them anyway, so there's nothing lost.
I've been in a similar situation, and there are a few things I suggest for those hiring headhunters or contracting through agencies.
1) They should have to tell you about every company they are going to submit your resume to before they do. This deals not only with the fact that you might not want to go to a particular company, but also helps eliminate double submissions. If you have more than one company presenting you to a client, the client is likely to pass just to avoid having to pay each headhunter. Headhunters are a dime a gross, so if any of them refuse this rule or break it, don't worry; that's one bridge you can burn.
2) You should get to review the resume they are going to send out. If they misrepresent you to a client, they are committing fraud, and are making you a party to it. I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for such a thing, but it's probably happened. At the least, it loses you the job when the client finds out.
3) When you break off a relationship, for whatever reason, make sure you make it absolutely clear. I've used something along the lines of "You may not present my name or my skills as part of your company." Don't worry about badmouthing or blackballing. The truth is, unless you did something really, really bad, no one is going to risk the defamation lawsuit you could bring against them. But be careful not to defame others.
4) Networking is a million times better than using headhunters. Get on linkedin and things like that. And keep in mind that you're always networking. Do good work, even when it's hard or there seems like there's little reward. Find a way to impress your coworkers. Be pleasant to work with. Try to make the lives of those around you easier. Then, when they get a job at a new company, and that company's hiring, they might just say, "Hey, I know someone." Eventually, you won't need to hire headhunters at all.
dude.. if Zeke or whatever submitted your resume to us, and we decided we liked you enough to bring you on, we'd do a background check (we're obligated to, due to the nature of our work, and the Federal regs around the kind of people we can hire). we'd check those references independent of your headhunter. if there was an inconsistency (like the dates for your previous jobs) we'd fire you on the spot.. like escort you from the building, we'll send your stuff along in a week or so fired.
Zeke is not only costing you work, but he's costing his company money too.
dump him.
Most of the Headhunters I went to asked if they could tweak my resume. Most of them added things that were (at best) stretching the truth. Some of them did do some things (formatting, wording) that I liked which I integrated into my permanent resume. A few times after not looking into their changes enough I got called into interviews and had them ask about my experience with . Those moments were quite embaressing and needless to say I did not land those positions. I'd call the Headhunter and tell them not to have that on my resume and they would say "I thought you knew Java. OH! Javascript! I'm sorry. I thought they were the same" or something of the like. Ugh.
The last headhunter I dealt with got me a job in about two days. I was hurting for a job and was pretty darn happy at the speed in which he got me into his office, got me in to see the client, and got me employed. It was going to pay $37/hour. Nice. I went to my first week on the job, liked the environment, and generally got along fairly well with the people. My first check was a live check (until they got direct deposit set up) and I eagerly awaited it, as I was getting pretty low on money. I opened it and....wow. What did I claim on my taxes for it to be this low? Hmmmm, taxes don't seem that out of whack. Maybe I didn't get paid for the entire week yet. No, all my hours are on there. What is this? Hourly rate....$21.00.
I called the Headhunter and him and his secretary both "Clearly Remembered" that he said Twenty One and would not have said Thirty Seven. He told me I could ask the company I was working for if they wanted to pay me more, but he guessed that would upset them at this point. I cursed at myself for making a handshake agreement, sent out some more resumes, but went back to work. After a month of being there my boss sat me down to ask me what I thought of the place. I was doing a really nice job and they were really happy with me. I told him that I liked the company and figured I'd just throw out the information about the headhunter and my salary. He just about hit the roof. He grabbed the contract out of his file cabinet, called the headhunter, and asked him about my pay. Apparently he had a written contract indicating how much the Headhunter would be payed and how much the employee would pay. Those numbers were more in line with what I had expected. By the next week after some phone calls between my employer and the Head Hunter, I was out of my contract and hired on as a "permanent" employee at $37/hour but with no health benefits until I had a year with the company. I was really pleased at how the company went to bat for me despite being there for only a month. I'm in my fourth year with them now. ;)
Exactly. Juggling jobs is like juggling cops - Nobody bothers to dig deeper as long as the stories are consistent.
d'oh...got it backwards. That's what I get for posting late on Fridays
Well, I was working with a headhunter, and everything was cool till I found out he called a place I was interviewing at to see if they needed any assistance filling that position that I was applying for. That was it for me.
Let me get this right, for almost 39 weeks now, we've been seeing an additional 500,000 people unemployed every two weeks. I can't pick up a paper without reading about more layoffs...
Rather than answer the question, I'd like to pose another one: Why are headhunters even needed?
I am an employer. I can't imagine using a headhunter right now. Why? Because there are millions of people to choose from. I don't need help finding people at all. There are more jobs than people. Call me when there are more people than jobs. That's when I need (and will pay for) a headhunter. I am 100% certain I am not alone.
I am a manager at a large Fortune 500 company, and I have hired a fair number of people for accounting positions in the company. I certainly won't rule out a person who is out of work, but I certainly have a bias towards people still in their job. Here is what goes through my head when I see a person applying for my position who is unemployed:
a) Where they fired for cause?
b) Were they laid off, and thus at the bottom of the performance rankings at their previous company?
c) If they quit (to find another job), isn't their judgement sound enough to stay with their current job until they find another?
If your spouse has taken a job in another city, and you are the "trailing spouse", the question of unemployment (in the new city) is easy to answer....and I don't mind hiring such an individual.
If your previous company has outsourced the entire department to another country or location, that is also a very easy answer.
But your answer needs to address the three questions I posed. If you cannot satisfactorily answer them, I will probably lean towards hiring the guy who currently has a job (assuming you have similar qualifications). That is because you pose a risk to me (I am afraid you might be a problem employee), while I can be more confident that the guy who is currently employed can keep a job and perform.
Best wishes.
How about this. When the headhunter takes your personal references and uses them as leads. That's when you fire the headhunter.
(Actually happened)
I would never do what this guy did! I might ask you to look at how you worded something or ask you to consider saying something better but NEVER change a resume with out your knowledge. That is a train wreck in the interview waiting to happen.
I was working in Bangalore (India) for a company just the mention of a particular technology on my CV was enough for them to sell lies and
pretend they have industry's best expertise with them.
Later I applied to another company in US and moved only to find out the same thing is happening here.
At least in US they asked me whether I would like it, if they changed my CV to suit requirements.
-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle
If your HR department is unable to understand the hiring manager's needs, it's precisely in this economy that you can use the help separating the wheat from the chaff: Do you really want to go through 800 job applications? It's easy to spend a lot of time going through applicants. In a small company, spending much time in the preliminary steps of hiring might have higher opportunity costs than hiring someone else to do that for you. A good headhunter has interviewed each applicant he gets, and might be able to save you a lot of time.
The problem is figuring out who the quality headhunters are in the first place. Someone that sends you a fake resume from an applicant is a good headhunter, period.
I would fire a head hunter the first time I found one of those little shrunken heads on my desk... I mean honestly that stuff gives me the creeps!!!
stupid money grubbing idiot pimps
is wrong. NEVER deal with a headhunter. Viktor Bout has more morals than all headhunters combined.
P.S. : Bout was a cargo transporter, not a gunrunner as the nutjob media wannabe-journalists proclaim.
Yours In Minsk,
K. Trout
I haven't had a headhunter/recruiter alter my resume, but to echo some of the other comments here, I've dealt with a few that I thought were shady - mostly by submitting me to their first two clients, then disappearing (probably decided I was taking too many "resources" to place).
One in particular submitted me to two small companies (basically startups) that were looking for gui/web programmers with C# experience, meanwhile the bulk of my background is systems level programming in C++. While I think I could get by in C#, I don't have the guil/web piece which surely was the main focus of the job. So I asked the recruiter what he was thinking... I got an answer that kinda sounded like "I'm just throwing rice against a barn and seeing what sticks". It just highlighted to me he's there to try to move product (me, and other clients) along expending as little effort as possible.
So in your case I'd move on, this guy certainly isn't going to suddenly behave ethically.
First, for your next headhunter, tell them clearly you want to see and approve everything about you they send out to customers. I always do that on the first meeting, and have never had issues like yours. It was, of course, a decade ago that I last spoke to a head hunter, but I doubt things have changed.
Second, let me give you an example. My wife was working with a head hunting agency (a stupider kind than yours), which began negotiating the fees with the hiring company after the interview and the offer. Naturally, things fell apart, my wife was pissed, the other company was pissed too, and it looked bad.
I had the wife call the HH, and basically tell them - you betrayed my trust, and that is what you actually sell, so get your act in order, give me a written apology that mentions you give up all claims on any subsequent interviews I have with whatever, and call that company and inform them you no longer represent me, and are sorry negotiations have collapsed because of you. It was a long hour and a half with the HH boss on the phone, but she got what she wanted from the HH, called the people from the company that was offering the job directly after the HH call, and was able to re-start the interview process and get the job.
The HH is peddling trust. If they screw up on that by mistake, it is in their interest to make that clear to both parties, and try to recover the trust they lost. If they are a "good" company, they will understand both you firing them, and why they should work to restore the truth in this case, which is, admit they lied on your behalf. If you present your request to the HH boss calmly and reasonably, he/she will probably help you out -- assuming what you want is restarting the process with the original company from a clean slate.
If the HH are "bad", that is, they lie as a matter of policy, and refuse to help you out as I suggest above, then you've been screwed, and you share part of the blame - for not being rigorous enough when selecting a head hunter. Pay more attention next time, and see the first paragraph.
Either way, good luck
Bad headhunters will modify your resume without your permission and submit it to companies without asking you
Good headhunters will work with you to tailor your resume to each opportunity and ask you to make sure an opportunity sounds like a good fit before submitting your resume
Bad headhunters who submit your non-tailored resume first and don't tell you can cause problems when the Good headhunter submits another resume for the same candidate (you). Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about this except apologize for the mix-up and hope the hiring manager/company is understanding.
I wouldn't recommend "firing" the bad headhunter (unless you're actually paying him money, which would be odd since they usually get paid by the hiring companies) in case they luck into finding you a good opportunity. But you should firmly ask him to check with you in the future before changing/submitting your resume.
"They've canceled the show but we're still here. What does that make us?" "Big Damn Junkies, Sir!" "Ain't we just"
You knew this guy was at best incompetent the first time around, and you let him submit you again? What are you stupid?
I completely walked away from a company during the interview process because the 3rd party head hunter was a pushy jerk. I fired a guy once because he was an idiot, but stuck it out with the firm and got the job; that was a mistake.
You're never given a second chance at a first impression.
Your headhunter has placed you and your prospective employer in a difficult situation and you are the canon-fodder. If you can't trust your headhunter to honestly represent you then you need not work with them.
I, too, am a contract programmer currently between gigs. If some headhunter calls you and says you're Mr. Wonderful but refuses to pay travel expenses for your interviews then don't even entertain them. Find out before you are submitted to the client because if you are submitted first and then refuse to pay an $800.00 air fair for a Face-to-Face then you are screwed and will never get a F2F with the client. One, you are not guaranteed the position so you'd be out $800.00 based on conjecture. Very hollow, indeed. And, two; being doubly-submitted is very taboo. Depending on whether you signed a right-to-represent from the headhunter they could take you to court which makes you a risk to the prospective employer. Which leads me to my next topic.
NEVER sign a right-to-represent without fully reading the entire document. If you must sign, then ENSURE that the right-to-represent is ONLY with the single client position for which you are being submitted. Some headhunter houses are *very* shady. These hunters will, and have, sued people for not using them to get positions at locations in or around cities in which the headhunter-house operates. It has happened. Sure, it's a scam; but, desperate contractors do fall for the scam and lose out on large amounts of money. (Mostly, it's small claims court; so, usually $5000.00. No need to bring in those meddlesome attorneys.)
NDAs. Don't sign NDAs with companies simply for an interview. I did this. Epic fail on my part. Basically, I was creating similar systems on my own that a company in Missouri was creating. I, arrogantly, thought I was a shoe-in. I didn't get the job and for a period of two years I am contractually restricted from creating like-devices for that industry. Recently, the company began looking for more people. When I inquired to one of my trustworthy Head Hunters he told me who it was. He informed me that they're not looking for anyone they've already interviewed. Honest and OK enough. I asked him if they hired anyone the first time around and he said, "No, they didn't." Imagine my surprise.
Save your NDA signing for when you have already been given an offer of employment and it has been accepted.
Last and certainly not least: Never discuss your offered positions with other Head Hunters. If they find out what position you are being represented for by another head hunter they will attempt to undercut you and you will never get the job. Need an example: Here. I know a guy who was traveling to his next assignment. One of his head hunters called and began talking to him about his situation. He informed the HH that he was going to start work in 1 week at company X, 600 miles away for $X.00. They spoke for about 10 minutes. The next day the contractor that got him the job called and told him not to come as the client found somebody else cheaper.
Moral of all this: Don't slit your own throat. Lose lips sink ships.
A few years back I wondered why recruiting agencies always wanted things in MS Word format and not as a PDF. The bastards edit the things all the time and you can never be sure what is going to end up being sent to a potential employer.
With my current job an employment agency picked a match but my employer insisted on having at least three candidates to interview. They apparently inflated the qualifications for the "star" canditate (he didn't interview well at all and appeared way out of his depth apparently) and they stripped all relevant experience out of my resume and it looked like I'd done nothing for five years. Fortunately I brought a few copies of my resume to the interview. I certainly got a shock with the missing five years and numerous spelling mistakes in the modified resume.
Even if the agencies are well meaning you have to problem of your carefully prepared resume getting rewritten by recent high school graduates that don't know java from ja-ja and are working in an ethics optional environment.
Have one ready.
Use it.
Move.
Somehow, the math doesn't add up ... let's use small, easy, round numbers.
Jane goes to the store to buy chocolate bars. Instead of $1 each, they're on sale for 20% less. Instead of 4 for $4, she can now buy 5 for the same $4.
Possible scenarios:
Or maybe it's that GED math ...
I've never gotten a job through a headhunter. I've never hired someone brought to me by a headhunter.
Headhunters are a cost. I've never seen any benefit.
more cowbell
You fire a headhunter when he turns up with a decapitated head in a box!
This sounds like you are using a company to find contract work. This is a lot different than using someone to find permanent employment.
For finding contract work, you need to work with ethical people and you need to work with people that will fairly represent you. They are likely getting a chunk of the hourly rate so you are going to have an ongoing relationship one way or another. This sort of company is probably very helpful - almost necessary - and it shouldn't be impossible to shun the folks that are misrepresenting you.
However, for permanent employment, I can't imagine a need for a headhunter/placement consultant these days. There are way, way too many people offering themselves through everything like Monster, CareerBuilder, Dice and Craigslist. The fees headhunters are going to charge employers are way out of line these days and as someone that does hire programmers and other folks there is no way I would use a headhunter referral these days. There are just too many people looking for jobs to bother - the agency is going to charge me at least a month's salary if not more for a service with no value.
Sure, there are lots of guys out there that will offer to put your resume in front of the "right" people. However, everyone today is more than happy to take the 50 resumes that come in response to any ad without paying. And then you don't have to worry about unethical people.
Although I'm sure it's not the only means that headhunters use to find candidates, I have access to my own Apache logs, complete with referrers, and can tell you that many headhunters who find and eventually contact me simply query Google for resumes with certain keywords in them. This isn't necessarily something a company needs to pay a middleman to do.
There's probably a value-add that I'm not seeing.
I can tell you that having dealt with headhunters from both sides, as an employee, and as the person doing the hiring, I hate the bad ones no less regardless of my current role. I have quit good jobs because the contracting company I was working through were being jackasses. I hated to do it, but it had to be done. The problem from the interviewers side is, even if they like you, you've pointed out that the contracting company misrepresented you to them. That means that the contracting company is disreputable, and they likely won't want to do business with them anymore. If they hire you, they have to continue to do business with them, and deal with potential issues that will arise between them and the contracting company, and you and the contracting company. Unfortunately, they typically can't just circumvent the contracting company at this stage, so you might not get the job, simply because they don't like the contracting company. The two of you get hired or passed up as a team, so you need to work as a team. They need to understand that if they place you somewhere you're not happy, it won't last, so they're better off putting you somewhere you're going to be happy, and to do that, it involves working together and not lying about things to either side. As a side note, I tell every headhunter before they submit me to any job that they are not permitted to change my resume in any way. I've never had them say no to that request, however, they have gone ahead and changed it once, in which case I informed them I was no longer interested in the position. Contracting companies/headhunters work for you, which you seem to get, now the second part you need to get is that there's a million of them out there, and they're all fighting over you and the positions, they aren't in a position to pull that kind of crap, and you should be sure to let them know.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
Simple.
He's not giving his all for a job, and it's made worse that his motivation is blatant ass-covering to hide a blunder.
He is not trustworthy, get rid of him before he sells you out.
Some cautionary tales
http://world.std.com/~swmcd/steven/crypt/recruiters.html
First off, be honest. When I get a bunch of resumes I sort them into three piles: the trash can, the junk pile on my desk, and then four or five go into the "interview immediately" pile on the front of my desk. I don't care about gaps in employment, especially from contractors. Hell, if anything it means you have a life and probably went off and did something interesting. (Note: if you come into the interview, please tell me a great story about a cool beach town in Central America you hung out in. Don't come in looking like you made a pile of cash and spent three months in your bedroom with your bong.) Second, recognize that right now this job market is brutal for anyone looking for a job. If I post a job today, I'll have 100 resumes by tomorrow and small mountain by the end of the week. Therefore, I'm going to hire the guy who has a Ph.D in comp sci, who successfully led a team of 5000 developers through the most complex development ever, and did all of the architectural programming himself. And, rather than pay him, I'm going to offer him a Costco membership and a couple cans of chicken noodle soup. Hey, I lost a bunch of my budget this year but I still have to get all my projects done. Third, get out of your lease, take all the cash you have, and go sit on a beach somewhere for the next year and let all this blow over.
----- obSig
Because all the people looking to hire and all the people looking for work don't know each other. If there's 1000 of each, that's a million communication paths.
Put three recruiters as the hub and you have a maximum of 6000 paths, and each individual only needs to make 3 calls, not 1000.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Don't deal with headhunters at all. They add no value and pull crap like you describe. I haven't used one in 12 years and am happily employed in healthcare IT earning six figures.
In all honesty my experience as a whole with recruiters is that they are a lower life form than bad lawyers. I know that sounds harsh, but all they are after is a fast buck. Once you know how the game is played, play them. As someone previously said, in the UK and in much of Europe (And unless you are paying their bills, I would suggest the US) it's the employers who are their "client" and you don't count. I do however have some recruiters who I know personally and are great people who I recommend to other people because they actually do give a shit. That's rare and I always pass business to these people when I can.
If that's what he is doing to your resume, my opinion is to call him a *$%" and say that you never want to deal with him again and that he will never make any money out of you, ever. You don't know what he is saying behind your back, and if someone calls you directly, talk to them. You have no allegiance or loyalty to someone who is effectively professionally misrepresenting you. If someone did this to me, I would be *highly* pissed off.
The best part is that you will get to a position, be it project management or regular management etc where you can make this threat real. I have done it previously and it's soooo rewarding. Recruiter: "I think we just got cut off." Me: "No I hung up on you, you called me a year ago about a position and you tried to rip me off. I said I don't want anything to do with you and I still don't. Yes, I am looking for people at the moment, but I am not putting any money your way. You burnt your bridges with me" *beep beep beep*
I know all this sounds really harsh, but it's a sad truth that I faced a while ago when dealing with these people, understand that a lot of them don't care. You also have to follow these people up EVERY day, be on them like a rat in a trap.
As an aside, make sure you brush up on your interview technique, even if it means paying someone to help you with this. As a previous poster pointed out, brush up your resume, make it readable and relevant, customise it to every position you go for. Read the job description and modify as necessary then send that to the recruiter to pass on. You probably have 101 skills that aren't relevant to the position. Leave a few in, strip the rest out.
Good luck
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
You're assuming that the headhunter is even mildly competent in the field of interest that they're trying to fill the job for.
Most of them think:
So, where do these people come from? If you haven't figured it out by now, they're RealtWhores who ended up in a different job. Just like RealtWhores, they almost always add no value, you can't expect them to be honest because their interests conflict with yours, it's ultimately all about "getting the listing", and with the Internet, they're quickly becoming obsolete.
You can try to convince the headhunters to stop "polishing" your resume, although it appears its their standard operating procedure so they'll probably keep doing it. You really shouldn't put up with it, since whenever you enter an interview you have no idea what's on the resume your interviewer has read. This can make you appear dishonest or stupid and isn't going to help you a job. Also as others have stated, lying on resumes is usually a firing offense, so should your headhunter find you a job, there's no guarantee you will keep it.
Look for a new headhunter or attempt to go it alone, don't bother with them again since they're dishonest. Should you receive any more interviews due to their efforts, be upfront with your interviewer and explain that the previous headhunters have probably doctored your resume and provide a correct copy, preferably before the actual interview. This lets any prospective employer know that they need to be skeptical of resumes from that headhunter in the future and should also make you appear more honest. An employer can then take action against your dishonest headhunter, possibly blacklisting their applicants, warning other companies or calling them out on their actions.
Personally, I dislike headhunters, but I've used them in the past when I was desperate. They are a good way to get corporate work (usually with mediocre pay and low expectations. However, they take a large chunk of the pay, and usually end up making it much harder for you to get paid in a timely manner, if they operate as a body shop.
As far as I can tell, the only way to get body shops to pay you on time, assuming you are using corp-to-corp billing rather than 1099 or W2, is to tell the client you won't be showing up if the payment is late, and then to follow through and take a few days off.
Still, headhunters and body shops have access to a lot of jobs that most of us don't, so if you are desperate or useless, they can be quite helpful.
Headhunters, and all human resources oriented placement firms are a huge scam for both employers and job seekers. They are basically pimps who do little more than bleed money out of other's toil. Why should they make 30%-50% of what the client is willing to pay just for placing your resume in their hands? I no longer relinquish a chunk of my salary to these people and it hasn't really effected my employment opportunities, and I feel better at the end of a project knowing that there wasn't some middle-man using my skills and talent to get rich for doing next to nothing. I also find HR people appreciative when I approach them and let them know I'm available for work at rates far lower than they are paying to headhunters. The other thing you can do is let a headhunter know that you will only work for them if their client rate is exposed and you offer them a 10% cut. Some headhunters will actually work with you this way, but most won't which is a good indicator that they could care less about you and your career. If they aren't willing to tell you exactly how much they are making in the deal, then they are most certainly rooking you.
I've always regarded HH's as one-hit wonders. If they send you to a job (however appropriate) and you decline/fail the interview/or hate the "opportunity" then they just wander off anyway. Now, I will say I have known some headhunters for more than 15 years, but they are few - they know my disagreeable traits. In general, you just need to move on.
As for resume modifications, etc... rub behind your ears, if still damp, then "No" they never change aaanyyyything.
... presented me to a potential employer for a job that was in fact a good match, who wanted me to come in for an interview at their expense. But, he failed to notify me about it until the evening of the day before I was supposed to be there. There were two complications. 1: Where I was already working, we had mainframe hardware upgrades scheduled, and I needed to be there to reconfigure the OS for the change. 2: This interview was half way across the country and I would have had to leave within an hour to catch the flight, completely unprepared.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Seems perfectly straightforward to me. The recruiter a) made untrue statements b) knowing them to be untrue c) in writing d) that damaged the reputation of this guy (by making him appear to be dishonest). That is all the required elements in most jurisdictions of libel. The damages are simple: the recruiter sent this man's resume to an unknown number of companies. (After all, once the recruiter has your resume, who knows what he did with it?) Any one of those companies now effectively will never hire this man. His potential job opportunities just got significantly curtailed for potentially a long time to come.
When I phone a candidate for an initial phone screen to determine if I want them to come in, the very first thing I do is focus on their resume and ask them question to determine if they're lying on their resume. If I find a discrepancy between the resume in front of me and what you say over the phone, then I'll politely complete the interview as if nothing went wrong--and you will never hear from me again.
I've had this happen a few times. One person said they had strong Java experience on their resume, so I asked them what the difference was between an ArrayList and a LinkedList object in the Java RTL. When he had no idea, I finished the interview and had HR send him a rejection. Another person indicated on the resume they had been working in security for three years; when he failed to ask some rather trivial questions about security, I completed the interview and had HR send a rejection.
My initial phone screen is to get a feel for the candidate, but sadly I'd say about half of the people I have phone screened in the past few months have exaggerated their experience--and that guarantees you will never get the job from me, even if your actual experience is greater than the person I eventually hire. That's because if you're not honest, I don't want you working for me.
Period.
I had a job through some small firm (I'd name them except I might have the name wrong). Did a ten month contract, got fired, went through various stuff with unemployment.
The contracting firm had only filed paperwork and reported my income for six weeks or so out of that ten month contract.
I would not use that firm again.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
You do, however, possibly need help finding the right employee in and among those millions. Unfortunately, most headhunters won't actually provide it.
Why redact the headhunter and headhunting firm's name from your story? If the facts are true it seems they should stand on their own merits. I say spill their name and let it serve as a warning to all. Even better, submit your story with all of the relevant facts to The Consumerist.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Over the past 10 years, I have (fortunately or not) had several opportunities to work with headhunters and use their services. I'm guessing I have been presented to at least 40 different jobs over that time span by various agents and have NEVER once been employed as a result of their so called "services." In every case, I have only been successful in obtaining employment when I have represented myself and presented my resume directly. Furthermore, I have found headhunters to be generally insincere and unresponsive. They love you and treat you like gold when they think they "have just the job for you," but then they drop you like hot lead bricks once they've done their "shotgun" referral for a given position. My personal opinion is that once they have submitted a handful of candidates for a particular position, they really couldn't care less about any of the individual candidates because all they need is for ONE to be hired in order for them to get their beloved commission. Whether or not you happen to be the "one" who gets hired is completely irrelevant to them. They'll still get paid either way and they will likely never see you again, so why SHOULD they care? There is a very solid case for comparing headhunters with pimps.
Many headhunters as for your resume in MS-Word format. Now we know why.
I will likely find out during your interview. I use your resume to base my questions about your experience. I may not pick up on a missing employment gap, but I will know all about your work experience and working knowledge, so what the paper says has to line up with what you tell me, and I don't ask multiple choice questions, I ask questions on top of answers to questions. You need a copy of the resume to remember what's in there during the interview.
I have had one good experience with a head hunter. She landed me a great contract-to-hire position at a Fortune 500 company, in my area. I had just been fired, and that probably had something to do with personality, not job performance. So I updated my resume the same day, and posted it out on some job sites. I got a promising call, several days later, and found out that the head hunter was in my area, so we set up a lunch meet and she had an interview for me, the next day. I impressed the I.T. Director and the two System Administrators at the interview, and was told I could start first thing on Monday. Signed the employment papers the next day, and they set me up with decent health benefits, and a 401K through the contract company from the very start of the contract.
I was unemployed for less than two weeks. Stayed on contract for four months, until I landed a better salary job somewhere else, where I have been for three years. Gave a two weeks notice to the parties involved on the contract. I have had the same contracting company call and ask if I, or anyone I knew, was looking for work. A few of the head hunters have even said, the client you worked for is looking for someone with your qualifications and experience. Having stayed in touch with the guys there, I know they've went through a few incompetent contractors, after I left. I guess my point is that there are both, unscrupulous head hunting firms and incompetent contractors. Both give I.T. contracting and similar companies, a bad name.
I honestly believe there are some good, and competent, head hunters and I.T. contracting firms out there. It sounds like, to me, that the original head hunter, Zeke, is up to no good. You have to wonder why he left, or perhaps was asked to leave, the original contracting firm. Any head hunter that misrepresents you to the client, is not doing any favors for you, the client, or the contracting firm.
1. Am I suspecting malice and/or clumsiness where a competitive market is the true suspect? (An answer of yes would be harder on my ego, but a relief.)
Malice on the headhunters part? Maybe, or maybe just has no sense of ethic. Who knows? He may have even been forbidden to call you from a different company, due to a no-compete clause in the original companies employment contract.
Clumsiness on your part? Maybe. The awkward moment, in your interview was the head hunters fault, not yours. Interviews can be tough, it's a learned behavior. I've been told I was overqualified, in an interview. Which is a nice way of copping out, and saying "We will call you. You know the way out, right?". My response was, "Well you could hire me anyway, so that your company can take advantage of my knowledge and extensive skill set". I've also seen a jaw or two agape, when the interviewer half expected that my resume was just as full of bullshit, as everyone else they had interviewed.
2. Do headhunters modify resumes, and if so, should I just shut up and go with what the headhunter says? (I was always told that eventually, the truth comes out, so I'd be uncomfortable doing that, but life isn't always comfortable.)
Do head hunters modify resumes? It depends on the modification. Slight editing or grammatical changes are perfectly acceptable, if YOU approve the changes before the resume is sent to the client. The same goes for a standard format. Many of the contracting firms have a boiler plate letterhead or format for your resume. The head hunter sees a lot more resumes than you, and if they have some insight about the format, its probably better to trust their judgment. On the other hand, modifying dates, and embellishing experience to better match job requirements is kind of a big no no. If there is a certain job requirement that needs to be met to get the resume into the right hands, then its the head hunters job to ask you to provide some more detail on your experience in that specific area. However, its your responsibility
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
The moment the head hunters messed with your resumé, they are out of the running. Fire them so fast they get skid marks.
You can't fire a headhunter, because they don't work for you. They work for the company they place people at. You ARE the widget they are selling. They don't give a crap about you in particular, unless you help them to make a "sale". Use them if you want, but remember they are focused on filling positions and not getting you a job. Unless of course you are paying a headhunter, then you're just retarded. Only Execs can get away with that.
Remember this, too. If you are unemployed then your job is finding employment. That means you should be spending 40 hours a week ACTIVELY working towards employment. Surfing the web while waiting for a headhunter to call you does not cut it. Nor does sending out the occasional resume.
Is "I haven't had a job since I graduated university (i.e. since I entered the jobs market for the first time)" a good answer?
How about "I currently don't have a job because my last job ceased at the end of the work"?
FGD 135
And to any other "bosses" that happen to read slashdot. THIS is the type of thing that garners employee loyalty.Not necessarily the raise, but the willingness to defend an employee when he/she has been wronged (in relation to work) and thus showing loyalty in turn.
The best jobs I've had had little to do with pay and a lot to do with attitude. I had two bosses that were memorable in the fact that they went to bat for me when things were going sour. One was a work-related issue, and another was actually a personal issue (I had recently moved into a sublet and courtesy of my landlord ended up with a new "roomate" about a month in who was a dealer, the boss helped me in looking for a better location).I'm not sure if there was any statistical significance, but both bosses were female. I found that overall they seemed more aggressive than my male bosses, but also more willing to "fight for the team".
I have had a copyright notice at the bottom of my resume for a long time now - bottom of page 2 in a small font. Unauthorized distribution of derivative work (modified resumes) is a DMCA violation worth a small fortune. Never mind all those nebulous damages. If you wanted, you could also point out that a resume submission without your permission is a violation, but I generally don't talk about it.
It's a familiar attitude, and the reason I don't work in the computer industry here in Japan any more.
Waterfall? eXtreme Agile? UML?
You can't run a project period, if you don't have some kind of idea what your human resources really are.
I know what the theory is, you don't really know anyway. Geeks tend to be too negative about some of the things they've experienced. Teamwork attitude is more important than experience. Positive Mental Attitude Conquers All.
Money exceeds all reasons, especially sleep, and you really didn't want to see your family anyway, way deep down inside.
I just got tired of the games, and tired of the death marches.
Lying about experience is a really good way to help start death marches, not coincidentally.
Why did I leave? Why don't I go back?
I was back on the job market after one particularly gruesome death march experience, and an outsourcing company arranged for what looked like my dream job. I really wanted that job, but I had bad vibes about it. My wife also had bad dreams. When I told this outsourcing company about the bad dreams, they thought higher pay would make it up for me or something. That was where the illusion tore, and I took a good look at all the lies and the real reasons for all the death marches I've been on, and I realized that I've just been too willing to try to go along with the hype.
I'll still go along with the idea that there is a difference between being honest and being negative, but I'd rather try to support my family on a single man's wages, teaching English, than get back into the industry with a dressed up resume again.
Lately, I've been thinking about undressing my resume. Paring it down, admitting that all the peripheral experience was peripheral, and focusing on what I can really do. It should be a lot harder for the headhunters to dress up a focused resume, and I'll have fewer meaningless interviewers from people who are interested in the side stuff.
Since the teaching job puts food on the table (except for the summer), I can afford to look for work I can really do, instead of wildly grabbing at stuff I might be able to do, if given the chance.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
These days I don't care about resumes and I don't care what a headhunter says. I care what the candidate's LinkedIn profile looks like, what recommendations he or she has, and from whom.
You were logged in after all. (Stateful browser, refreshing doesn't necessarily tell you when you are actually logged in. Right-click and post in a new window if you aren't sure. Stupid new UI.)
And, yep. The recruiter might easily have been taking $75/h for you. How many secretaries did the placement firm have? What kind of car did the recruiter drive? Etc.
If the recruiting firm handles your insurance and cuts your paycheck, and that kind of thing, they'll be taking in a bit more, of course. Support costs, as they say.
Were you able to intuit how many people they had placed out at any particular time? How many "real" workers were supporting how many recruiters, secretaries, accountants, etc.?
I wouldn't fret about it. When the companied hired you directly and were paying you 110/h, they were still likely to be paying at least 30/h in support costs for you, quite possibly as much as 200/h, depending on the tools they were providing you, etc.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
Well, just to be clear - I divide them into two separate groups. Staffing/Headhunters have relationships with HR/Hiring managers of companies and try to find people to fill those positions. Effectively doing alot of weeding out; they are paid once. Contract companies - Manpower, Apex, Insight Global and such, tend to take a cut of the contractor's hourly pay indeterminately(YMMV). With the first type, they can be useful - there was a very nice lady who prepped and informed me about the company and the job that she was sending me to interview for. I found it much more helpful than the simple job description. Conversly, the latter kind are the devil. On a 90-day contract to hire job, they were taking 4 dollars an hour off the top of what I made. Later, a manager I knew at big blue told me that Manpower was easily the worst - charging the company twice, and then giving the contractor only half of it. Can you imagine some schmuck charging your company 50 dollars an hour and paying you 25, just for the service of placing you? Forever? Sadly, he said that even with that kind of a$$-raping, it was cheaper for them to hire contractors, because of liability issues that came with permanent hires(whatever that meant).
fuck headhunters. fuck employee managers who don't give a brother a fair shake by reading the resume with any respect.
the thing that i get is, shit interviewers that evaluate you based on what you appear to them to be...sometimes this shit has zero to do with your skills -- are you young? are you good looking? do you fucking LARP? did you go to the right fucking school/grad school? do you know this mindless twit at this other tek company...oh yeah...sweet.
fuck all.
put what the fuck you do on the resumes and stand by it. MAKE the fucking hiring manager listen to you and ask them what questions about what it is like to work with company (do you have a fucking turnover rate...if so, what the fuck is it and why the fuck are people leaving you? -- here's a good one: can i talk with the CEO? i need to know what kind of company this is by looking in this fucker's eyes to see if he's worth working for).
oh yeah...fuck headhunters. good for nothing rat fucks who will sell their baby daughter for a commission.
In the UK, lying on a CV can constitute fraud; google for "obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception".
1) Headhunters are dying like flies in a recession. That's the nature of a business cycle. Headhunters make a ton of money for picking up a phone during the boom times, but they really take it on a chin during a downturn. So - don't be afraid, tell Zeke where to shove it, and find somebody else to make a dime off of your labors.
2) Your resume is not your confession. It's an ad - nothing more or less. The function of your resume is to get you a face-to-face interview. From that point on, you're on your own. On the other hand, lying on an employment application form will get you dismissed...
The last headhunter I had to contend with called me (at work!) on spec, tried to pretend he was scouting for Microsoft and asked me if I was a "hands on kind of guy." No, I was a code with Notepad kind of guy. He didn't get the joke. Who needs 'em?
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
This goes back a ways (20+ years) but back then it was not uncommon for a head hunter to gather a pile of resumes and send them to the client. They would do so and not even ask if they could submit your resume. To cut to the chase I found out about it and called the head hunter and fired him on the spot. Another headhunter lined up an interview for me on the West coast without asking me. He called me up and told me that I had an interview set up and I was to be there like 5 days from today. I asked the head hunter OK when do I get the airline ticket and the hotel reservations. He told me that I was on my own. I told him he was fired. A few weeks later another head hunter asked if he could submit my resume to the same west coast company and I said *ONLY* if they would pay expenses. He submitted my resume and they sent me the ticket and a hotel reservation #. I went out there (side story deleted) and found out it was for a "top Secret" government installation. It was in the middle of the *** **** desert. After the interview I got the offer and told them I wasn't interested in working in that type of environment. I said if they had disclosed the basic information that I probably would not have went there for the interview. They told me that they had informed the head hunter and he did not tell me. I fired the head hunter immediately.
Almost all head hunters and con$ulting agencies modify the resumes match what the employer is looking for. In my experience I find that letting them know up-front that I want them to give me feedback on my resume and let me make changes as I see fit & that I do not want them modifying my resume works. As many have mentioned, most of the time the HR reps in the companies just look for buzz words and key words which is a reason why these middlemen see fit to *fib* on the resumes... and they want the $'s
To answer your question $4. Yes. I've deal with situations like these. I personally know consulting agencies that prey on people & border on the illegal & for the most part do illegal stuff while leaving no paper trail, making it hard to prove anything. So here is a checklist about what/how/who about these consulting agencies:
- The consulting company is run by an Indian(s). not all you say! well the next one will be a sure way to find out which ones to stay away from. :)
- They hire only Indian's graduating from US institutions and are on OPT where they need to find a job fast or recruited from India. as both types know nothing about the law here, etc
- They make changes to resumes & coach person on interview questions and ask them to *just get the job* & once they get the job and can't do it then they can get other consultants to help with the work behind the scenes
- They never put anything in writing (paper or email). All business is by phone. Ask them to email/snail-mail anything and the reply is always "We'll call you"
- They don't hire non-Indian's especially Americans (Americans know about the law's don't they
- Their concept of bench-pay is taking money out of your pay check every pay period and paying it back to you as pay when you are on the bench
- They require you to sign a contract with them that you will have to pay and arm or a leg or more if you leave them before 2 (or more or less) years
- They want you to pay a part or all of the H1b application fees
- Their idea of reimbursing your relocation costs is by paying part of your salary as making part of your pay as reimbursement so that it is not taxed. Until Uncle Sam has *paid* for your move
- They always have an excuse as to why they have not been able to return any documents, visa papers, etc you gave them for processing the H1b, and in many cases even pay stubs
i could go on... i wonder why the US Govt has not done anything, it's not like they can't know any of this...
I replied to a job description which specified "minimum, six years Java experience".
Java had only been around for four years.
I asked them whether they were negotiable on the experience, or if they'd mind me calling them back in a couple of years.
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1. Getting no less than NINE calls each from different headhunters for a position I already interviewed for, that I waited 6 months for. The interview went horrible.
2. Having a headhunter give me the usual in-person interview, then asking me a week later, "so, any new leads?". I told him that was his job.
3. Seeing a headhunter post a job ad on a local board. Guess what? It was the exact same text from the company's job ad on the first one I mentioned.
4. Daily calls from India for a job to submit me to. Oh I despised them.
5. Having a headhunter NOT submit my resume, but not telling me about it until I asked. Ditched that company after the 3rd employee from that place called me.
A headhunter is often a middleman where it is often un-needed. I would rather apply directly & keep them out of the hoops. Sadly, monster.com and friends have TONS of job ads..all made by consulting firms, with the relevant data(ie company you would be working for) left out. What do you expect when there are 10 headhunters to ONE job?
Companies always prefer to hire a Highly Skilled Wage Slaves.
Slashdot = Sarcasm
I'm now 31 and I've been employed since I was 18.
In that time I've had about 7 jobs and have worked at least 85 to 90% of those years, however there are several 2, 4, 6 month periods where I have been without work.
All you need to do is say you were at X job for a couple months longer than you actually were and started Y job earlier than you did, you can also leave a gap too.
Example left company A in October, started at B in November - they will assume you took a week or two off to chill out or go on holiday etc.
I won't deny your agency were stupid and perhaps you've got much larger holes to fill in than I do but you can bend the rules a little and not feel too guilty (well, I sure don't)
I had a headhunter try and get me to effectively marry (enter into a "living together contract" with) a Swedish guy (I'm also a guy, and I don't personally don't swing that way) in order to make it so the company wouldn't have to get me a work permit, after INSISTING that they would never do such a thing. There were a few other dodgy things proposed as well. I declined, said I didn't want to work for a company that would ask that of me; the headhunter relented, was honest with them, and they didn't have a problem with getting my permit. I now work there, but the company no longer uses the services of that headhunter.
I later learned that the same headhunter had sex with one of my (married) colleagues and there potentially was a baby involved. Some people will stop at nothing...
You stupid fucking cunt. Williamson! I'm talking to you shithead! You just cost me six-thousand dollars. Six-thousand dollars and one Cadillac. That's right. What are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it asshole? You're fucking shit! Where did you learn your trade, you stupid fucking cunt? You idiot! Whoever told you that you could work with men?
You want to know the first rule you'd learn if you'd ever spent a day in your life? You never open your mouth until you know what the shot is. You fucking child.
I never understood that idea of not hiring people because they "don't have a job". People that don't have job are cheaper as they're hungry. What is your opinion of YOUR employees looking for other jobs? After all, YOU only hire people with jobs, who's trying to hire YOUR employees? Or is that "disloyalty"?
Because there are millions of people to choose from. I don't need help finding people at all
If the latter statement (something is easy to find) followed logically from the former (there are lots of things in the search space) then companies like Google would not exist.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
None of that is unusual. First of all, it is important to point out that the contract agency does not work for you. In fact, their interests are for the most part contrary to yours. They want to place someone at the job and they want to pay them as little as possible while billing as much as possible to their client. Their client pays them, and they work for the company you are placed at. You are little more than a talking sack of meat and bones to your contract agency. That being said, it is possible to develop a good working relationship with them from time to time, and apparently you have done that. That is great. But you can still and SHOULD be working with several different agencies at any time. So to answer your questions, Yes, agencies modify resumes all the time to remove their competitors names, customize your experience to fit the job and to do pretty much anything else they think will help them get the contract. It isn't malice. It is just what they do. No, Zeke is not your friend. He never was. They want you to think they are your friend, but don't fall in to that trap. Nearly all of that is applicable to HR people also.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Your reputation in the market is crucial, and they just screwed yours.
I know some people have to keep their reputation clean, but honestly - the vast majority of people - are simply deluding themselves if they think they are actually this important.
If they lie about anything - FIRE them.
A small lie goes to their character. You don't need to work with people like that since it reflects on you.
Leaving out details is not lying.
Having headhunters screw you over is grounds for dumping them. And telling everyone you know (or might know) to avoid either the agency, or the specific person.
Don't know what the specific libel laws may be, but as long as you're detailing actual facts - you should be allowed to post publicly (a la a blog or /.) what they've done - with you original and edited CVs as examples.
Don't make anything up, but be direct. They won't like the negative publicity.
I've had a resume modified by a headhunter once. I submitted my resume to the headhunter, and got an interview with a company a week later. All well and good. The headhunter was not certain how I would do interviews (and wanted to be able to advice me if it went bad), and the company I was being interviewed at agreed to her request about her sitting in on the interview.
Half-way into the interview they asked me about my Oracle skills, and some SQL questions. I was a tad puzzled and said that I'm not very much into Oracle. They pointed out that I had it listed on my CV.. whereupon I was a tad confused and asked to see "my CV".
Much to my surprise, my minor mention of "have installed and configured Oracle IAS" had turned into "Experienced Oracle DBA".
I looked at my interviewer, then cocked my head towards my recruiter and asked "Uhm, I think someone have rewritten this for me...", whereupon the recruiters face became a deep shade of red.
The rest of the interview went very well, and I did get the job, as a Unix-admin.
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
When I was in grad school I asked one of the few practical, real-world professors I had about headhunters. He said "Do you mean the guys who kill you and shrink your head or do you mean the guys that get you a job?" I said the latter. He said "Well, you know when you have a barrel of apples?" Umm...yeah... "Well, you empty out that barrel and there's this layer of crud on the bottom." Um....yeah... "You scrape off that layer and underneath are headhunters." Oh, great. He then told me that headhunters will work hard to get you a job but they will work just as hard to make you take a job. Bottom line is that they're in it for their own interests i.e. they get paid by the employer, not for yours. I took a stab at a couple of headhunters over the years and they all were hell-bent on making me take the first job that came down the pike. One required me (in my early 20s) to move to Grass Valley, CA. Not exactly a hotbed of technology or young single women. I turned it down and never heard from that headhunter again. Another wanted me to interview for a company who told him that they didn't want a "Mac bigot". I being a Macintosh programmer at the time decided that what they really wanted was someone who would eventually switch over to the PC version of their product once they sh*tcanned the Mac version. It also told me that they were more "PC bigots" who would poo poo the Mac the first chance they got. Again I turned it down and told the headhunter that I didn't want to go into a hostile work environment from day one. Again, the headhunter blew me off. I never used one again.
I have had it happen.
I went in for an interview. it was clear that I was there due to buzzword bingo and the job they had open wasnt even in my chosen discipline. I stopped right there, explained what happened and apologized to the interviewer for the waste of his time and noting that the hunting agency would never, ever be representing me again.
The happy ending is that a few days later, the hiring company contacted me to invite me to interview for a position that *was* in my discipline. It wasnt a match but I made a good contact.
My reputation is just as important as my skillset. I complete contracts. I deliver excellent work. And above all, I dont bullshit about what I can and cannot do. Anyone screwing with that is directly harming my livelihood and I take a dim view of that indeed.
Getting a job sucks. It's always sucked, and probably always will suck. Nearly every resume you put in will be in a pile with a few hundred others, and the person reading them isn't going to spend an awful lot of time on yours. Nearly everyone fudges theirs a little and your interviewer will probably take off about 20% of what you say as exaggeration regardless.
Interviews are also hard especially in the early days or if you're excruciatingly honest, or don't have the best social skills.
It's hard to say from your description exactly what happened. Hiding periods of unemployment is quite common and acceptable. Lying about periods of employment isn't. We don't know from your story which of these it is.
Obviously, they were looking to hire someone from Sun who worked with the language for a couple of years before it was released.
The company I work for is shortly going to open source a language. I'll be able to claim 5 more years of experience with it than anyone in the remainder of the public.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Remember: headhunters are people that were judged too unethical to become used car salesmen! (I once had a headhunter hand me $1000 cash in an unmarked envelope to quit the job I'd just started and take another position that he had been working on but taken to long. I also had a head hunter promise me per diem for taking a job 70 miles from home, then when the first paycheck arrived say "We changed our mind... didn't we tell you?") You work with many headhunters at once, and use whatever headhunter can get into a paying position the quickest at the highest salary rate. I've never used the same contracting company for two positions in a row, although I have used the same contracting company multiple times. One more warning: just because a company tells you that you have a start date, doesn't mean you have a job. I had a contracting firm get me a job at Intel and give me a start date, insist that I give notice at the old contract which was not complete, then days before the start date tell me "Sorry, Intel Finance department didn't approve funding for the position." Fortunately, I was able to scramble and land a different position at Intel through a different contracting company, but the company that promised me the non-existent position was then pissed off at me for not sticking around for several weeks (unemployed) on the off chance that they could convince Intel to change their mind. In my experience, H. L. Yoh has been the least slimy as headhunters go, but I still don't trust them simply because they are headhunters after all.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Hi,
I'll caveat all of this by saying that I've never quite been in a similar position to yourself, and haven't had to deal with a headhunting agency to quite the same extent.
But I can say, based on the situation that you've described, that I'd drop that headhunting agency right now, and move to a different one. Where I live, they're a dime-a-dozen. Don't like the one you're with? Switch.
Let me put it a different way. Unless these headhunting guys are your close friends, I don't really see why you should harbor any loyalty toward them. This business is not getting the job done, has done things you don't agree with, and is making you nervous enough to write about (to complete strangers, I might add). I mention that last part only because, if it isn't already, it *should* be the big, bold underlined font running across your vision which says: "Dear Captain Sarcastic [your userid], it's time to move on."
Don't be a ploker.
Past empolyment dates are the easiet thing of all for a future employer to check up on.
There is no harm at all in saying you did tempory casual work (or claimed unemployment) during the gaps.
Log in and you notice that the relative rating drops a point. Once you're logged in, you can click on the points and see the breakdown.
Really not as bad as it looks.
About the dreams and vibes, though, I suppose I could have been less subtle.
The vibes and the dreams got me to ask a few questions I had been letting slide.
It was the answers to the questions that put the brakes on. It was the second look where I realized I was getting myself into a bad situation.
Is that plain enough?
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
I suppose I was a little oblique there, but read it again.
But about dreams, you don't have to assume dreams are supernatural to discover you can learn things from them. Check the wikipedia entry on dreams.
Shoot. What am I doing, responding to an AC? The guy that posted that misinformed attempt to defend himself from understanding himself isn't going to read this anyway.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
Is this a particularly American thing? I worked in the US from 1997 to 2005 in the contract market, and have had a few experiences like this, though the particular head-hunter I was working long term with never repeated it after the first time I confronted him, and told him that integrity was more important for me than finding a job. In the last three years, I have been working in the UK, again in the contract market, and yet to face anything like this. I still send out PDF resumes so that this happens a little less.
I have had recruiters call me back and ask me to send a version 'highlighting' a particular skill set, and that I see as fair. If I have 15 years of experience and done various things, and their client wants a particular skill set among the things I have done, I might add a paragraph or two about the particular skill set, and my relevant experience. Thats about the only types of changes I make, and I insist that it has to be me who makes the changes.
This is exactly why I have 1 copy of my resume on my own web site and it's copyleft'ed. Head hunters are free to take a copy of it and if they want alter it slightly, but they must put a pointer to the original and only official copy of my resume that I maintain. If I find they violated the terms of the copyleft I inform them of their illegal behavior and threaten suit. I'm serious about this. Any company who does not wish to work with my terms does not work with me - period.
A good headhunter is especially useful in a down economy. Not to disparage anyone who is out of work, but in a recession the first people to often lose their jobs are the people who provided marginal value. In a recession you may get more applicants but not necessarily more qualified ones. A good headhunter can help manage this.
Headhunters are like used car salesmen for the most part. They get paid to get you placed, regardless. If you are going to use a headhunter NEVER use one that you, personally, have to pay. The legit ones get paid by the hiring company. If they tell you there is a fee to you for ANY reason, walk out the door. Also, some (perhaps many) headhunters will contact you with some promising leads even while you are currently employed. Once you take the bait, they will then contact your employer letting them know that they may have to fill a position in the near future because they know one of their employees is looking for work (i.e. - YOU). Devils! If you decide that it is better for you to use a headhunter than to look for jobs yourself, then just make sure you are up front with them as to what you expect and don't expect from them. Honesty is the best policy. Just remember they are in it for the paycheck. They have no personal interest in you. You are a commission to them. That's it.
The Thing is.
I have seen this with a few headhunters, and had calls form them about experiences i have never put on my resume. I am really not impressed by headhunters and there is talk that in Alberta they will soon be regulated because of the dishonesty with them. It is bad enough that employers now want all the non essential skills including the must haves to have the situation complicated by headhunters trumping up your resume so it looks glamourous so they can glean a fat commission.
There is no way in which you can meaningfully explain what you do in such a short space of time (considering headings, that you are not using single spacing and other formating caveats).
As somebody that has reviewed his fair share of CVs and interviewed lots of people I can tell you that such advice, at least in my field, is utter nonsense.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
"And guess what. You're not as good looking as you think. More than likely you look like some one in need of attention. When I look at resumes I toss instantly the ones with photo's. Why? Most likely the person has some social issues."
It is very agreeable to me to know that there are people out there that can judge the character of a human being by guessing the reasons a person had to put a photograph on a CV.
It makes you marvel at human ingenuity.
The possibility that people put a photograph of themselves for a myriad of reasons is valiantly eluded by somebody that has cracked this sociological nut, by bining CVs of otherwise worthy candidates for only this reason.
it makes me happy to be sharing the world with such enlightened folk.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Why is that even in your CV????
IANAL but write like a drunk one.