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Plug vs. Plug — Which Nation's Socket Is Best?
CNETNate writes "Is the American mains socket really so much worse than the Italian design? And does the Italian socket fail at rivaling the sockets in British homes? This feature explores, in a not-at-all-parodic-and-anecdotal fashion, the designs, strengths and weaknesses of Earth's mains adapters. There is only one conclusion, and you're likely not to agree if you live in France. Or Italy. Or in fact most places." (For more plug pics and details, check out Wikipedia's list of the ones in current use.)
8 fucking pages with two small paragraphs on each page? fuck. off.
There already is an international standard. The problem is that no one is going to invest a ton of money to scrap their current system (pun?) and switch over to it.
http://gizmodo.com/5391271/giz-explains-why-every-country-has-a-different-fing-plug
We all save on electrolysis?
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I did not agree with the tiny 10-page article that barely had enough substance for 1 physical paper.
It's worse than that. I hate to spoil the ending for you but he comes to the conclusion that the British outlet is the greatest with a 10 out of 10 score. Why? Safety features. Features like shuttering and built in fuses. Both of which are optional on American outlets as well -- I'm sure -- as they are on outlets around the world. Maybe they're standard in the UK but they're optional in the US. I'd rather have the option than even more regulation. Also, the picture for the US is ungrounded. I'm beginning to think this article was written by someone who's never really cared to understand the diversity of plugs in countries other than his own (which I would never use in the US and very rarely see). Nationalistic garbage is about all this amounts to. Yawn.
My work here is dung.
UK plugs are about double the size, have significantly thicker pins and have a fuse built in.
Other than that, identical.
They also completely failed to mention sheer size. British mains plugs are fucking enormous. That might be fine for AC blowers and electric kettles, which are big anyway and draw a fair bit of current; but it is annoying and ridiculous for the ever growing crop of little tiny switchmode adapters that power the gizmos and gadgets of modern life.
Seriously, why don't you just post "Nothing happened today" in big letters on the front page?
UK plugs are quite a bit more sturdy -- you can't bend a prong on a UK mains plug with hand strength. They do take up a bit more wall space though.
The voltage isn't a trivial issue either. More volts to the wall means the house wiring doesn't need to carry as many amps and less fire/electrocution risk.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Of the various plugs and sockets I've spent time living with (Australian, US, European, British), my personal favourite is the Swiss one. Small, secure, strong and aesthetically pleasing. The habit the Swiss have of also integrating a socket with most light switches is also quite useful.
If there was some move to rewire the entire world with a single residential standard I'd vote for NEMA L15.
Single-phase power is a hack.
No, this one is the safest because the plugs screw in for a secure fit. Why it isn't already used in wall sockets is anybody's guess.
Article summary (score out of 10):
10- UK
9 - Denmark
8 - Italy
2 - Australia
1 - USA (no surprise)
1 - Japan (surprise)
0 - EU
I suspect bias. I also suspect this article was meant to be humourous. BTW an American plug can handle 15 amps easily; it's how I run my spare heater.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
As a British person living in the USA I notice that the majority of my sockets outside kitchen and bathroom are not GFI protected (either at the socket or the fuse panel) and that most appliances do not use an Earth Pin.
I also am in awe that socket adapters are legally sold that convert non earthed sockets into earthed sockets and light bulb sockets into earthed sockets, the safety implications are huge. I think it is a fair assessment to use 110V non earth sockets as many home have them.
I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket, none of the sockets contain safety shutters and that 110V cords to high wattage appliances such as vacuum cleaners get warm and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off. IMO the British home electrical system is much better than the USA system and I have tried to view it impartially over the years.
and the plastic guards across the power pin sockets that only open when the earth pin is inserted.. prevents little fingers etc.
oh, and they always (almost always, not on really old sockets) have a switch next to each socket so you can turn them on/off.
Yes, the British have "really decided" - a long time ago too! Stuff hasn't come with just bare wires for ages. I hesitate to suggest an actual number of years, because someone will come along and prove to me that there's one appliance left that still comes with bare wires for some odd reason or another, but I'll stick my neck out and say it's been well over a decade!
I agree that plenty of devices in the U.S. don't use a ground pin, but I've rarely seen appliances with no ground. Have you really seen a refrigerator or a microwave or something with no ground pin?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
They sell 2-prong to 3-prong adapters because you typically attach the ground to the cover screw via a small prong or wire. Since ground and neutral are tied together in the breaker box, you have the same safety of the a 3-wire system in a 2-wire system, minus the redundancy of an extra ground.
The problem is people don't hook up ground adapter.
Gone!
Worst pick-up line ever.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Oh yes, that switch, the fuse in the plug and the protective plastic cover over the live socket must add something like 1p to each socket in whatever Chinese prison they're being made in this week. Sure, they last forever and save lives, but it's just too much of an expense for me.
And you know what? The number of times the average American has been shocked by his plugs: 0.
I read the internet for the articles.
And they leak oil.
In my experience a lot of brits don't even realize we have single phase 220v to most homes.
Thus they probably aren't aware that there are US 220v sockets and plugs to compare theirs with.
But without a built-in fuse and shutters in the outlet they'll still rate theirs as superior.
OTOH, considering how many times most people actually unplug their stove, water heater, or clothes dryer, I'd wager that statistically the US plug is the safer of the two.
America gave birth to the ultimate socket.
Man up.
If you can't handle a bit of unprotected metal carrying 110V and fake grounded adaptors you're not cut out for this continent.
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
I started doing that when I saw them installed consistently like that in an industrial situation, but I didn't fully understand the reason. I do know that plugs are less likely to pull out due to weight on the plug like that.
Finally I asked an electrician. He said the reason is that if something falls on the plug, pulls it partly out, and makes contact with the prongs, it hits the earthing pin first rather than possibly hitting the hot lead first.
I dunno when you last heard that from someone. Bare wire appliances haven't been sold since the 70's or early 80's in my memory (no doubt there's an exception somewhere). And the 100 plug thing is just bizarre. It's a single UK standard plug and that's it and has been since I can remember (I'm 40).
Yay, I've above average!
Then how is it that Americans created Mac OS X while a Finn created Linux?
Actually, the little security flap adds about $0.08 to the cost of a socket (about $1 retail given markup). The inline fuse is differnt from a GFI, and instead of allowing the device to die a horrible death and trigger the GFI, it protects the devices from surges in the first place. They use GFI in the breaker box (as the breakers in my new house here in the US also do and it's not the builkding standard in this state as opposed to the expensive GFI sokets I needed all over the place in the old house). Their inline fuse is cheap and simple.
For the cost of a box, outlet, and cover plate, the UK socket might cost $2 more than a US one. Its safer and also protects devices with an additional surge protection barrier (so you don't need a surge stip for every fracking outlet you have more than a lamp plugged into).
Further, because they use round connectors, not flat, it's far less likely you'll bend up a plug, and it's also harder to find household objects you could stick in the hole in the first place. It;s not exactly often i bend up a connetor real bad, but when ui had a dog it more more frequent, and more than once I've had to solder on a new endpiece, which is really a bitch to do btw without the proper tools.
I'm not condoning everyone rip out all their outlets, I'm simply suggesting all new outlets come with a cover and fuse starting now, and all appliances start coming with a newer, better connector (and an adapter to use an older outlet).
People might compain, but they made the same complaint years ago when we added the 3rd prong and people started needing adapters for those. We got over it, and will again.
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
Min-Kyu Choi's Folding UK style plug. All the goodness of the UK plug, none of the bulky crap. http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System.html
The 2008 NEC requires shuttering outlets in the US. It's just a matter of time.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
OTOH, 110 is far less likely to whack you on your ass if you DO get shocked!
Test your net with Netalyzr
God forbid safety comes before savings.
Why should safety vs savings be immune to a normal cost/benefit analysis?
How many people are significantly (or even mildly) injured due to the design of the standard US plug? How many fewer are injured with the UK plug? Now, how much does it cost a society (taking everything into account, from the cost a table lamp to the cost of a meal at a restaurant which uses appliances with these plugs) to mandate the use the UK plug over the US plug?
Safety over savings is a laudable goal, but taking it too far or removing personal responsibility (for example, by a totalitarian nanny state) can be just as detrimental as having no safety at all.
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
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Thanks to the electrical manufacturers, "shuttering" is no longer optional for residential installations that follow NEC 2008 or later (406.11).
Well, the Canada plug is better than the U.S.A. plug!
Well, it seems that BS1363 allows non-earthed plugs also, quoting from wikipedia:
"Moulded plugs for unearthed, double-insulated appliances may substitute this contact with a non-conductive plastic pin to open the shutter." So, should a fair assessment include non-grounded plugs British plugs also?
As a native of the US, I find the items you point out incomprehensible, but acceptable just due to familiarity. I would absolutely love UL and the NFPA (the non-governmental bodies that, in reality, sets most of the standards for these things in the USA) banning 2-prong plugs and outlets. 2-prong outlets have been effectively banned in new construction since 1962; I'm sorry, but if you have an old house you'll have to rewire or buy lots of adapters.
I'd love to have 220V coming out of the wall sockets as half the world does; it's unlikely to be more dangerous than the 120 we have now, and would allow for products with twice the power of currently available one (think vacuums, table saws, etc). Alternatively, products could have thinner cords - at half the amperage, the required wire diameter is smaller.
As far as light dimming, that's going to occur in Britain also if you plug in a 13 amp device. It's unavoidable, and driven by the current being drawn; the cords will get warm also. Of course, there won't be as many 13 amp devices - my 120 volt, 13 amp vacuum cleaner would become a 240 volt, 6.5 amp vacuum cleaner; the 6.5 amps is unlikely to dim the lights and unlikely to make a noticeable temperature difference to the wire.
But I just can't get over the size of that British plug. It's got to be bigger than the cellphone that my AC Adapter would be trying to charge. How about practicality - how often do the shutters on British outlets fail, jam, or break? /frank
And the worms ate into his brain.
I haven't been able to read the article yet, but one thing which is definitely different between the US and UK plugs is that no US plug has a fuse in it.
Also, the US plugs are woefully inadequate for inflicting really serious injuries when stood on with bare feet.
Dunx
Converting caffeine into code since 1982
The British people are strangely proud of the ungainly BS 1363 plug. No surprise at all that it won the comparison.
What is it with the Americans on here? The British people are not proud of their plugs, the British people take plugs for granted. It's not like there was a national vote on what plugs to use or anything.
To warp this into a issue of national pride is just wrong.
Ever been shocked by 110? No big deal. 220? You need protection.
Never go to sea with two chronometers; take one or three.
Appliances don't have to use the earth ground pin if they're double-insulated.
Yes, you can buy adaptors to eliminate the earth pin, but they have a loop that needs to be connected to the outlet plate screw, which needs to be grounded. If you don't use that, and there's a problem, it's your own fault. However, many older houses don't have 3-prong outlets and the system has no earth ground connection, so there's not much you can do. What would you suggest, every 50+ year old house being rewired? We're already bankrupt.
As for accidental shocks, remember, this is only 110 (really 120) V here. It doesn't hurt much to get shocked if you're clumsy, as long as you're not wet (which is why kitchens and bathrooms are required to have GFCI for new construction). I imagine getting zapped with 220V is a much worse experience.
As for lights changing brightness, maybe you're living in an older house or something, because I don't see that. And for vacuum cleaners, yes it kinda sucks the cord gets warm, but not many things are like that. In the typical house, very few things use that much current (the things which use lots of power, like ovens, are already 220V and have their own circuits with huge aluminum cables). 220V is massive overkill for things like alarm clocks, small lamps, TVs, or even computers.
I don't see the advantage to fusing the plug versus a device with a replaceable fuse.
B.t.w. Christmas tree lights in the US have fused plugs with fuses on the hot and ground so that it can be plugged in upside down. Since there's no separate "device", just wires with bulbs, having the fuses in the plug makes sense.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
Then how is it that Americans created Mac OS X while a Finn created Linux?
I think what you're looking for there is VMS, Unix, OS/2, etc etc etc vs 'a derivative work based on Minux, which is a workalike student version of ATT Unix'
Due to the low price these days I use GFI outlets whenever I can. Worse case is it saves you a trip to the breaker box if you overload the circuit. Best case it stops you from doing the 110v mambo.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
This is a pretty ingenious solution to the bulk problem of the UK plug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6DvjKkGT6s
Your electrician screwed up, but not badly. There's no real standard about which way they must face, but there is a convention: they usually look like a face. However, if the outlet is switched by a wall switch (usually for plugging in a table lamp and being able to turn it on from the switch by the door), the outlet is supposed to be inverted so it's obvious which outlet is switched.
They'll only potentially save you if they are GFCI, standard breakers will let you complete the circuit quite long enough to fry you.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I kind of like Australia's socket design. In the US, our NEMA sockets are designed so that a plug for a 30A socket can't plug into a 15A socket or vice versa. In the Australian design, a higher current plug can't plug into a lower-current socket, but a lower-current plug *can* plug into a higher current socket. Which only makes sense.
Of course, all of them are pretty weak compared to EV charging connectors like J1772. Designed for 10,000 connect/disconnect cycles, and the power pins don't go live until the data pins confirm a connection. And the data pins can talk with the device to determine what kind of power to deliver.
sed "s/SJW.*$/... never mind. I was about to say something stupid, and also, I'm a troglodyte./Ig"
Well, OK, maybe we Brits are a little over-proud of our plugs. A Polish engineer I know called them "an insult to electrical engineers".
But seriously, where is someone explaining why some other plug is superior? In my experience US plugs get bent pins, can be woefully insecure in their sockets (literally dropping out) and the ground-nonground mixing that goes on on powerstrips seems clearly dangerous.
So (excluding British plugs) which plug would you choose to champion? Any?
I know it's not comfortable to admit that the US version of X is not the best in the world, but if you had another option that you preferred, I'd be more convinced.
'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
I was going to just copy and paste in my older post titled "The UK plug is the nanny state run wild", but I can't find the damned thing.
The simple fact of the matter is that the pins on the US plug are so short that by the point it is far enough out of the socket to expose enough of the pins to touch them with your fingers, it's unplugged. No partially insulated pins or other wacky design contrivances are needed.
The UK plug appears to have originally been designed by someone who was laboring under the misunderstanding that they were designing a connector for welding equipment, not domestic appliances. It can safely carry 100A of current, if you replace the fuse with a solid link. Why? The plug contains a maximum 13A fuse and the ring main circuit in a UK home is limited to about 40A if I remember correctly. Why a 100A connector when it can only ever be supplied with 40A?
Shutters on the sockets are a very recent development in the US, and a probably just being copied from the UK for no other reason than shutter envy. There's no real demand for them, because Americans are somehow able to resist the temptation that apparently so often overcomes their British counterparts to stick things in the socket other than a plug.
When my family moved from the UK to the USA back in 1982, I thought the US plug was flimsy compared to the UK plugs I was used to. But, really, a Honda Civic looks flimsy compared to a Caterpillar bulldozer, but I know which one I'd buy to drive every day. (Yes, I have to get a car analogy in.)
A major advantage of the USA plug is that it's smaller - you can plug six appliances into a power strip and not have the power strip be the size of a house. If you have a laptop bag, the USA plug isn't some great big lump in the bag. The US plug is designed for its intended use, not designed to be safe even if being used by newborn babies to plug in their industrial welding equipment.
You might say, well, the US plug can't carry as much current for heavy loads. It's true that you can't get as much power through a single US plug as you can through a UK 13A plug, but that's because the voltage is higher. The US plug can carry 15A at 125V all day long. My wire feed welder works just fine plugged into a normal US 15A outlet - the plug doesn't even get warm.
Putting moderation advice in your
They sell 2-prong to 3-prong adapters because you typically attach the ground to the cover screw via a small prong or wire.
You're supposed to, but typically people don't. In fact, they overwhelmingly don't.
Ungrounded and unpolarized sockets are grandfathered in, but no longer meet code for a new install. The adapters are SUPPOSED to be connected to the screw for grounding, but I have frequently seen that step skipped or the ground wire cut off. Grounded outlets have been the standard for decades now, but there are still a few ancient buildings that haven't updated.
"Appliances" that don't use a ground/earth pin are typically things like lamps and small DC wall-wart adapters. National electric code allows for listed and labeled appliances with double insulation "or equivalent" to forgo a grounding pin. (NEC section 250.114 if you care...) This would cover nearly all consumer grade electronics like TVs as well as small counter top kitchen appliances like toasters.
Basically there is a tradeoff: If the device can be demonstrated to have little or no risk of posing a shock hazard, it does not need to be grounded.
It is also my understanding that some appliances in the UK are also ungrounded - the earth pin is either not connected to anything or made of plastic.
It is also against NEC to install new outlets that do not have a ground pin. Essentially any house built since the 1970s or so will have 3-pin outlets. Those adapters (which are recommended against by anyone with half a brain) are for those rare occasions when you're in an old building, and used properly are still fairly safe.
I've been told the new edition of the NEC also specify Arc-fault interruption (AFCI) outlets for residences - if that's any consolation.
> I also notice that no appliance I own in the USA uses insulation on the live pins of the plug to prevent accidental shocks when the plug is slightly out of the socket
I have only ever heard anecdotal evidence of people getting shocked like this. Generally speaking, if the plug is out far enough to get your finger on the pins it's too far out to be making contact. (Maybe I just have fat fingers?) Regardless, few people seem to be in the habit of gripping the plugs in a way that would make this an issue: you only need your thumb and forefinger.
> IMO the British home electrical system is much better than the USA system and I have tried to view it impartially over the years.
It strikes me, jokingly, that the UK outlets are all baby-proof because the UK is full of babies. We call it the Nanny State for a reason :)
=Smidge=
Stuff hasn't come with just bare wires for ages. I hesitate to suggest an actual number of years, because someone will come along and prove to me that there's one appliance left that still comes with bare wires for some odd reason or another, but I'll stick my neck out and say it's been well over a decade!
I think it's 15 to 20 years. I'm sure it was made illegal to sell domestic appliances without a plug. Manufactures used to sell things without plugs to cut costs and improve profits. The shops didn't mind because wiring plugs was a nice easy money spinner for them.
Even then plugs were totally standard the GP's claims that unwired plugs were due to there being a number of different plugs to choose from is total bull.
They do have the convenient habit of only coming in "flat surface mount" variety though, so the cord is already against the wall. Or at least, the cord sticks no further from the wall than the plug itself does. Most US plus for some reason think it is a great idea to stick far further out from the wall than even the huge British plug due to plugging in perpendicular. You can get the smaller "flush mount" plugs for some things in the US (usually extension cords, sometimes computer power cables) but they're then next to impossible to remove because they become so flat (a bonus for the larger British plug).
I also don't recall the British plugs having the "plug falls out of the wall due to the weight of the cord" problem that FAR TOO MANY US sockets do. It could just be the house we lived in when we were in England had new enough sockets that wasn't a problem -- I don't know for sure. I do know I've experienced the plug-falls-out problem in many, many houses and apartments in the US.
Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
Sounds like the UK ones are massively overengineered, inconvenient, and introduce extra points of failure unnecessarily.
Hm?
I don't know that I'd say that...
The UK ones typically have a bit of insulation on the prongs. This prevents you from accidentally touching live wires or shorting anything if the plug isn't fully inserted. And I doubt if it costs too much just to add a half-inch of plastic/rubber to the prongs.
The prongs themselves are much thicker and sturdier, they aren't just metal blades. They don't fold over without a lot of effort. I'm sure those cost more than the flimsy things I've got in my house... But just about every plug in my house is at least slightly bent from use.
The fuse in the plug is very nice. For some reason we here in the US don't worry too much about that... About the only GFI outlets you'll see are in bathrooms. A lot of times you'll see outlets that aren't properly grounded. You can buy all sorts of adapters to convert lightbulb sockets into electrical outlets... Or to plug a 3-prong cord into a 2-prong outlet... It's fairly easy to do something unsafe and, at best, trip a breaker - at worst, do some real damage. Putting a fuse in the cord/outlet itself means you can stop the damage before it even gets into your wall. Again, I guess this probably costs more... But I'd gladly pay a few cents extra for the safety.
UK outlets also usually have some kind of safety flap thing, that prevents you from sticking a fork in the outlet. Again, I'm sure this extra bit of plastic costs a bit more... But I think I'd be willing to pay for that added safety.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
A shock from an American outlet will very rarely kill you (I supposed it COULD, but I've never seen it). When I was a teenager I worked with a construction (drywall) company doing random labor tasks. Several times during things like remodels I and my brother (who also worked with me) would get assigned things like tearing out a ceiling and removing the insulation. Both of us accidentally grabbed a hot wire at least once. It hurts like a sumuma-bitch, but actually inside the home that level of current is the type of shock you can just walk off. A 5-10 minute break and we were back to work.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Having lived in the US, UK, Malaysia and France, I would concurr that the British plug system is far better. It was properly thought, and universally implemented across the country 50 years ago using an act of parliment on the premise that using anything else was dangerous and therefore potentially negligent. More features have been added since then (including household earth-leakage trip sensing).
I've had problems with a French pin snapping in a socket leaving an exposed live pin for my 3-year-old son to play with (luckily I spotted it in time and managed to cover it).
In the US I almost got used to the risk of shocks off electrical appliances. I also had a lab fire destroy some of my work because somebody had knocked out the cable of the pump supplying the coolant.
In Malaysia where the national standard specifies the british plug type, the biggest issue was that cheap Chinese imports sometimes didn't use it.
When basic safety is involved, I don't think that it's over-engineering. Your comment about extra points of failure doesn't make any sense.
A device with a high current plug needs more current than a low current socket can deliver. Allowing the user to plug it in would be(at best) useless and at worst result in firey death.
A device with a low current plug needs substantially less current than a high current socket can deliver. Allowing the user to plug it in works just fine.
It's like SAS vs. SATA controllers. SAS controllers can handle SAS or SATA devices and the keying is such that either can be plugged in. SATA controllers can only handle SATA devices, so they are keyed to prevent SAS drives from being plugged in.
I'd rather have the option than even more regulation.
How can you object to something that improves safety and comes with no inconvenience whatsoever?
Capital! Socket to the Yanks, dear countryman.
Non grounded UK plugs are only allowed on items which are doubly insulated. This therefore requires two things to break before someone can be electrocuted.
If the lights dim when you switch on a 13A device then there is a problem with your wiring. Most likely because it is too thin. There are all sorts of regs here (in the UK) which dictate the losses allowed in the cables / cable thicknesses etc which if followed correctly mean that the lights should not dim as the voltage drop is minimal. Also note that here in the UK, a 13A device draw 3.1kW where as it is only 1.4kW in the US.
It is very rare for the sockets here to break and the pins on the plugs can't easily be bent unlike the US ones.
Also in the UK we use ring mains which allows the size of conductors to reduced by 30% or so which makes a considerably saving due to the price of copper.
wot no sig
Sure, but belt-and-suspenders is a good philosophy when it comes to something like this. When you take your laptop and plug it into the hotel outlet, you're trusting whoever wired that outlet to have done it to code. It almost always is, but the one time it isn't could be the one that damages the laptop or takes your life.
GFI and fuses are apples and oranges. Fuses and circuit breakers are current overload protection. Ground Fault Interruption protects against current moving in a path it was not intended to (e.g. between hot and ground rather than hot and neutral). There are plenty of ways to kill yourself with current moving between hot and neutral as intended. You can use more current on the cord than the circuit is rated for. You plug your 2A cord into a 20A circuit, and you can start a fire by drawing 10A and the GFI is happy as a clam. Your laptop is off and your frayed cord is drawing one amp because of the current that is currently melting the plastic in the cord. In that case not only is the GFI and circuit breaker happy to let you start that fire, the 2A fuse in your plug is too. You need arc-fault detection.
GFI units include a circuit breaker, so yes, there is redundancy. I'm assuming the UK codes don't let you wire buildings without circuit breakers, so it's not like the UK relies on plug fuses exclusively and the US on circuit breakers. If I am correct, then the UK has redundant current overload protection where the US does not. GFI handles ground faults, of course, but that's almost not relevant in many cases, e.g. non-grounded equipment which is supposed to have an electrically isolated case. Of course you'll want GFI if you're in the habit of using your laptop in the bathtub, but in most cases arc-fault interruption would be even more desirable.
Imagine a world where you have overload protection in your device (e.g. laptop), in the power cord plug, in the circuit breaker panel; the breaker panel also provides arc and ground fault protection. People would *still* die from electrical faults in that world, although many fewer. If you assume everything works perfectly, you can install all your protection at the breaker panel. In fact, in such a perfect world, all you'd need is current overload protection at the panel, and the odd GFI here and there to protect the people who use their laptop in the bathtub. But in the real world, you can't count on anything working, as advertised, including any of the fancy stuff you install in the panel.
In any case, the outlets in the US design wear out too quickly, in my opinion. It's a lot like the original USB design, which was fine for plugging your printer in and leaving it plugged in for the life of your system or your printer. The plug was not designed for lots of connect/disconnect cycles.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I'm no electrician
Thank goodness for that!
Compare "Major Appliances" to "Appliances". Hand mixer, blender, kettle, coffee maker, bread machine, coffee grinder, countertop boiler, ice cream maker, and so on. Plenty are made without a grounded cord.
Ground isn't "instant safety", though. Depending on circumstances, ground can make a fault worse. That's why the shift to double-insulated power tools with ungrounded plugs. (Say on a drill: the chuck is insulated from the motor, and the motor is insulated from the housing. So if you drill into a live wire, the circuit DOES NOT COMPLETE through the power tool to either ground or you--or both. (If you hit a Big Cable, it will be too much for the 16 gauge ground, so there'll be plenty of current to go through you, too.))
Mind you, I had a paper shredder "fail dangerous" when the double-insulating piece that insulated the cutters from the motor failed... and the motor fell out of its mounts... and turned on... and shorted hot to the control panel. (That unit should not have received ULC and CSA safety approval with a design that brittle. The motor should have been bolted to the case, not "propped" in place by a plastic widget.)
How many Americans have been killed, per year, by the 2" long plastic guns attached to those plastic GI Joe soldiers? Those are routinely confiscated at airports.
It must make you feel a great deal safer, knowing that plastic soldiers are not going to attack you during your next flight with their 2" long rifles.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Think about it for just a minute and it might dawn on you - you don't need to be an electrician to get this. A 15A appliance will work in a 30A socket, but a 30A appliance won't work or will cause safety problems in a 15A socket. You don't want people plugging 30A appliances into 15A sockets and the socket design ensures this. It's kind of like backward compatibility - it only works one way and it should only work one way.
The first thing I do when I land in a foreign nation is strip all my plugs and jam the bare wires in the outlet.
No it doesn't. Ordinary Romex can handle 220V fine; the insulation is rated for 600V. New US 220V wiring costs more because it requires four wires rather than three (two hots, a neutral, and a ground), but that's because it's split phase, not because of the voltage. And it's probably still cheaper than what it would take to deliver the same power with 110V.
Circuit breakers are not fast enough to save any lives, just fast enough to prevent a short.circuit from starting a fire. You need a ground fault circuit interrupter for a cutoff quick enough to save lives.
This should help clear things up a bit.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
LOADING...
READY.
RUN
One thing that Americans on their first visit to the UK are amazed at is the fact that electric kettles can boil water in about half the time as their American counterparts. The penalty for this convenience of course is that their sockets are huge and their cords are heavy duty, thick and heavy.
Is there such a thing as a 220v GFCI outlet?
Yes.
Maybe it's just me, but at a certain point I WANT the plug to come out of the socket. I know I can't be the only person in the world who's tripped over a cord sometime over another, and the plug just yanking out of the socket is a lot better than the actual wire popping or the outlet coming out of the wall. It's the real-world equivalent of a fuse - when something is obviously wrong make the system break at the safest and most convenient point rather than somewhere random.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
They can handle it - it's part of the job description. We have the same thing in Australia and I have yet to have a switch fail anywhere in my house (or houses I have lived in throughout my life). It works on high current kitchen appliances like kettles and toasters and it works on lights.
The falling out of the wall problem isn't the most alarming issue with US plugs. The falling slightly out, just far enough that the connection is still (poorly) made and you get sparks flying when you turn the device on problem is. How anyone could defend this design is beyond me.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I've used power plugs in a bunch of different countries. Most have their advantages and disadvantages. US is small, Australia it's clear which direction you plug it in, Europe has some good safety features... but the british plug has nothing going for it. It's big and ugly, and when you put two on the wall next to each other, you can't work out which way is up. The authors are retarded.
So, let's take a 100 per cent objective* look at the plugs and plug sockets of the world"
Where the attached footnote read
*Objectivity in this sentence has a one-off, government-approved change in definition. Its meaning here, and only here, is the exact opposite of what it usually means.
I'm pretty sure the article was not meant as a hard-headed, detailed comparison of different plug styles. Of course, after reading that, and seeing that it was a 10 page article with approximately 2 sentences per page, I declined to read the rest of the article.
Id like to see some kinda standard for domestic DC. USB is common for chargers, but they all are wall warts for AC of some type.. Mebbe an outlet with 1 AC and 1 DC with an internal rectifier?
I cant see using USB for things like your TV of DVD player, so something a bit more robust might be in order.
When a socket is for higher current, it doesn't mean that it always provides such high current. It means that it supports it if the device you plug requires it. So when you have a low current plug (and hence a low current device), you might appreciate being able to plug it into a higher current socket.
The opposite is not true, tho. When you have a low current socket, it can melt and cause fire if you try to use it with high current devices. Of course, your breakers will probably disarm first, but in any case you don't want to try that.
That's why both directions is not an option, while one direction is.
http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
The bedroom one is not a GFCI (ground fault circuit interruptor). It is AFCI (arc fault circuit interruptor).
and you do realize that the National Electric Code in the USA REQUIRES all circuits in Kitchens, Bathrooms, and Rooms which contain Water sources (like utility rooms) to have GFCI grounded circuits, and that a single GFCI outlet can protect all outlets wired in series after it..... right?
Oh and it has required these for many many moons....
Fuse? Who needs that when the entire house is wired with circuit breakers. Fast enough to save your life if you drop the hairdryer into the bathtub.
Because the fuse trips at 2 to 13 amps and the circuit breaker will be way higher?
I think you fail to understand the difference between a fuse and a surge protector. A fuse protects from over current only. It offers very limited protection for over voltage. A surge as you're describing comes from a sharp increase in voltage (from 120 to several hundred or thousand volts). A surge protector typically defeats a surge via a zener diode (One that only lets current flow if the voltage is over a threashold) shorted to ground. So if the voltage rises above the clamping voltage, all current is redirected to ground.
This also differs from a GFCI in operation. A GFCI detects ground faults. That means current leaking from the primary to the ground pin. In normal operation, this shouldn't happen. But if a circuit is shorted, or becomes damaged, the ground (which is usually connected to the chasis on metal items) can be connected to the primary lead. So the GFCI detects this leakage, and kills power. Surge protectors, GCFI and fuses are very different systems, each designed to protect from a specific hazard.
Now, a circuit breaker is a fuse. Their very nature only protects against excess current only. There are two important differences however. A breaker is a lot faster at disconnecting current than a fuse (it's designed to be fast), and it's resettable. So to say that the UK version is better because it has a fuse shows me a lack of understanding of practicality or safety. Fuses are designed to protect the wiring. That's it. Nothing else. A fuse prevents a short circuit from melting the wiring in the house and causing a fire. With the excess current required to trip a fuse, the damage to the equipment is likely damaged already. And it will be more than enough current to kill a person (It only takes about 0.015 amps to kill someone, regardless of voltage).
If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
Then how is it that Americans created Mac OS X while a Finn created Linux?
A computer scientist created Mac OS X and a computer scientist created Linux. That fact that one is a Finnish and one is an American had nothing to do with it.
Sorry, what?
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49303764-4,00.htm
These cables can only carry currents of up to 2.5A
WHAT? Where the hell did the author get this information?!
Here's a random picture that I found through Google, for those of you who don't know how European wall sockets look like: http://www.goodlogo.com/images/extended.info/b/bcc/wall_socket_NL_GE.jpg
Here's the miserable excuse for the British wall socket: http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00PvutNFZDbIcQM/Socket-A091-.jpg
1) The European socket has a plastic outside cone for insulation. If the cable is partially unplugged, you cannot touch it with your fingers. The British version has nothing.
2) The European socket allows you to plug the cables upside down (which is extremely helpful in certain situations).
3) Contrary to how it's portrayed in the article, the European socket *does* have grounding. In fact, it has two grounding pins, top and bottom.
4) Some people have mentioned the size of the plugs themselves. Here's the one with the grounding http://www.advin.com/uv-eraser-plug-FE-W512.JPG and here's the one used for small appliances and gadgets http://www.tuxgraphics.org/electronics/powersockets/power_plug_euro.jpg
What a stupid article... Stupid British arrogance.
Technically, the IEC power connector, as found on the back of most computers, is one of the best. You usually see a chassis-mount IEC male connector and a cord-mount female connector, but the reverse forms are available. IEC "wall sockets" are sometimes found in rackmount server outlet strips. The plug is shrouded, and the socket has an enclosing slot for the shroud, so at no time are energized pins exposed. The shroud engages the enclosing slot before the pins make contact. That's a key safety feature. It allows a smaller plug; if exposed pins are energized while the plug is being plugged in, the plug has to be made larger to keep fingers away from the pins.
IEC is a flat-pin design, which is good. Getting a large contact area on round pins is hard, so round-pin connectors of a given size usually carry less current. Flat-pin contacts just slide between two flat spring-loaded blades, which can accommodate wear on both surfaces. The split-cylinder contacts of round-pin female connectors have to match closely, so as they wear, the inside radius of the cylinder increases and no longer properly matches the pin. Round pins vs. flat contact blades are sometimes used; they wear better, but the the contact area is small.
The older round-pin European connectors are only rated for 10A, sometimes only 7.5A. At 240V, this is adequate. IEC connectors are rated for 15A, and there's a 20A form.
Today we expect connectors to just work, but it took considerable engineering to get to that point. As late as 1980, computers had serious problems with connector unreliability.
He's American.
That's not entirely true. The neutral has a current running through it and therefore is at an elevated voltage. The independant ground should have no current running through it and should be at ground potential. You can't rely on the neutral for safety. I have seen them floating as high as 8 volts due to IR drop in the system. Relying on the neutral to be a ground, you could easily become the return path for all the current.
Nonsense. Pretty much everyone in Britain has at least some of their power sockets that they use with a 3/4 or more way splitter.
Symmetry and polarization aren't enemies.
Look at a 1/4" stereo jack. Sleeve, ring, tip. -> ground, neutral, hot.
Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
Bah! Brits are just pissy because you all know that you would be speaking German if it wasn't for the big and bad USA saving your tea swilling Limey butts. Oh, and Monty sucked! if Ike would have let the great General Patton off the leash he would have taken the whole damned thing, but Ike was a politician and was trying to make it a "coalition effort", even though the USA didn't need the tea swillers anyway. Oh, and they are called FRIES dammit! Chips come in a bag that says Lay's on the side!
So you tea swilling, hot beer drinking, uppity Limeys just stay the hell away from our power cords! And keep your damned dirty metric system to yourselves! You can just keep that crap along with your baby cars that go on the wrong side of the road! How in the hell does anybody fit in a damned mini anyway? That ain't a vehicle, it is a fricking go-cart! It is a commie plot, that's what it is! You're trying to take away our freedom to drive really fast and get shitty gas mileage, which is in our constitution! What is a matter, don't you believe in freedom?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Nowdays the code is requiring Arc Fault Circuit Interceptors, (AFCI) which are even more sensitive to sparking.
GFCI sense current to ground. AFCI can detect short circuits between two hots (on opposite legs of the 240 volt entrance), or one leg and neutral.
Neutral tends to be tied to ground at the main panel, which is why GFCI works for most cases.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
there's no "objectivity" in that article.
Shoot...just look at the Dutch plug (no pun intended): Two paragraphs, one sentence each. The UK one, it's like reading a biography.
That and there were some facts missing.
Japan uses 100V not 110V
GFCI sockets exist in the US
The British mains (aka 230V mains) are much more potent so they needed shutters 'cuz it was killing kids (oh will someone think of the children!)
Besides, the shutters are in the socket not the plug and guess what, shutters exist for other types OTHER than the British type (aka Type G).
Here's another kicker: just because there's a fuse in the plug, doesn't make it safer. A 13A fuse (the max) can fit in a 3A cord. In order for the fuse to cut the power, it has to melt but in this case, the cord will melt and catch on fire before the fuse does. FAIL
A GFCI socket (which is fair to claim as the article brings in shutters on the Type G socket) will detect current even small amounts leaking to ground (a fault) and shut the power off immediately. There are even sockets that have other kinds of resettable circuit breakers as well.
And some appliances have a fuse box on the back that's connected directly to the cord.
Now as far as shuttering goes, guess what...they have 'em for Type B too, known as tamper resistant meant to protect children from shock!
I thought they sold those adapters for guitar amps. Not really. If anyone can explain why a "ground lift" helps reduce signal noise on amplified sound, I'd be glad to hear it.
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
The U.S. plugs are generally pretty solid unless your connectors are bent. Normally, the only time you bend pins is if you A. step on the plug, or B. yank the thing out of the outlet in a dangerous way. I'd rather have the cord come OUT of the outlet when I trip on it than stay in, though, making the U.S. plug actually safer than the British plug precisely because of its lack of robustness. The British plugs are too big, too cumbersome, too heavy duty for normal consumer electronics. It's like they were designed for air conditioners. The outlet adapter for British power takes up the same space in my luggage as three of the two-pin European adapters that I use for 99% of my electronic devices.
Also, this article mistakenly claims that the British plug is the only one that guarantees you put the right pins in the right holes. That's not true. The U.S. has both three-prong versions that do this and polarized two-prong versions that also do this. Similarly, the Denmark plug also does this, as does the French three prong plug (the one with the ground pin sticking out of the socket), though apparently there aren't any standards for which pin should be neutral versus hot in the socket itself, making this superfluous....
The absolute worst ones, though, I do agree, are the European standard, but not for the reasons they give. They're awful because there are at least two or three different pin spacings that look identical until you realize that you brought the wrong one and it won't fit into the socket. And there are half a dozen different standards for the third grounding pin, which is why we have such a huge rash of travel converters that don't provide the third pin. (Go ahead. Try to find a travel converter with a ground pin. Why is it that way? Because of the lack of standards in European power connectors, primarily.)
The U.S. power connector should ideally have thicker prongs for the two main prongs, and I wouldn't object to reversing the design, using round prongs for hot and neutral with a thick, flat bar for ground so that you could potentially have greater surface area for the ground contact, and thus better grounding. That said, it's still a lot better than the British connector because it doesn't weigh half a pound just for the connector.... :-D
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
I have never in my 28 years seen a British plug fall out of a socket, no matter how old. The pins, as mentioned, are very chunky and do not bend.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Admittedly, I'm an American but I will back up my points.
220V is too much for everyday electronics. Why does your vacuum cleaner or table lamp need 220V? I do understand that the amperage is lower (half) for the same wattage. However, if there's a fault in an appliance, and the current carrying lead is exposed, you can touch the conductor without anything more than severe discomfort (wouldn't even call it pain - this has happened to me with a bad light socket). I doubt you could pull this off with 220V. Obviously completing a circuit on either is a bad thing (touching between current and ground...)
Second, ring circuits are for very specific things. I understand the UK uses a ring circuit for pretty much every floor. In the US, we use home runs for important things and limit ring circuits to, say, the 4-5 outlets around the perimeter of the room, generally one room, about a foot off the floor. Those usually run at about 15 amps - enough for a powerful vacuum cleaner, but generally not a microwave. Those run off a (dedicated) 20A circuit, same as a fridge. Other appliances, generally those with electric heating elements (such as a range, water heater, furnace, machines such as a tablesaw) run off dedicated 220V circuits.
The upshot of this is the US has many more circuit breakers, and a lot more granularity. A typical house has about 30-40 circuit breakers, maybe more. But a circuit breaker controls, say, half of a room - instead of the entire first floor. UK plugs are fused, so the appliances are about as safe, but that doesn't fix the problem of not wanting to disconnect a whole floor to work on the electrical system. And you start limiting the current from the distribution point - if you drive a nail through a wire, it will only be carrying 15, maybe 20A before the circuit breaker blows. That's opposed to the 220V at 40A...
Basically, in general there's a lot less current flowing through people's walls. The appliances that need more power get their own entire circuits. I can't help but feel that this is safer, and it allows us to reduce the complexity of our plugs.
I'd honestly like to hear why people disagree - as I'm sure they will.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
The article also alleges that our (US) mains are only 110V, but in fact, IIRC, we typically have a 220V main (two 110's 180 degrees off) which can be run together to get 220V.
Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
Its because Americans are reflexively proud of everything with a US flag stamped on it, yet at the same time are culturally unable to make a better, standardised design widespread.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Grounded North American plugs generally don't bend that easily.
Some bending is designed in, so that a sharp sideways yank on the cord will bend the blades and allow the cord to disengage the outlet without tearing out the outlet and potentially shorting it.
The sooner we outlaw two prong plugs in North America the better.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Perhaps you should read it. But get yourself a sense of humour first.
US plugs are safer because they only carry 110v. That, in and of itself, makes US wiring safer. 220v is much more deadly than 110v. Since all of my appliances work just fine on 110v, in what way is 220v better?
From the stats I can find, UK deaths by electrical outlets are .486 per 100,000 and US rates are .015 per 100,000, more than an order of magnitude safer, even without massive numbers of safety features. I have grabbed live wires at a plug a few times in my life, and it just jolts your arm a little bit. I suppose it's possible to die that way, but I don't know anyone who has personally. I've never even heard of it in the US but I guess it does happen (faulty wiring in the home or workplace was included in the stats above). Bottom line, I am seriously not worried one bit about grabbing live outlet lines. It hurts a little, so I don't do it for fun, but I'm really not worried about dying or anything.
I like having very small (polarized) plugs for small appliances. Who wants to carry around a ginormous brick in your bag just to plug something in? For serious appliances like microwaves, there are serious 3-pronged grounded plugs. This gives options based on the appliance rather than a one-size-fits all system of massive plugs.
If my pins get bent, I just bend them back. This happens so infrequently, it's amazing that someone even mentioned it. Also, I have NEVER had a plug "fall out". Seriously? Fall out? If someone kicks it, I would RATHER it come out of the wall so they don't go flying head over heels and really injure themselves. I have lived in the US for almost 40 years now, and I can count on one hand the times a plug was kicked out or bent.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
The intention is that you *always* use the switch before unplugging anything. I've seen plenty of sockets where the wall around it has deteriorated to the point where the socket assembly isn't secure, but the switch and socket still function perfectly.
The first centimetre of the base of the connector of non-grounded plugs is covered with plastic. If you pull the plug enough to expose the conductor, it's not touching the connector inside the female plug.
Grounded plugs are fully exposed; but wall plugs accepting them are recessed at least 1cm, to the same effect.
Actually, there was kind of a national vote on plugs; a democratically elected government decided that this would be the standard plug design. And frankly, it is something to be proud of; an engineering problem was solved nationwide and that solution has lasted us decades without any real hiccups.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
They put these in my home (in Texas) and I don't like them. Makes it way more difficult to insert the plug and it always feels like the little plastic shutters are going to break.
I live in a sixty-five year old American house, which is all circuit breakers, and was originally built with at least one set of 3 prong, grounded outlets in every room. It didn't come with enough outlets for modern needs, but what it had, were mostly implemented well - it would have been damned hard to electrocute yourself by dropping a radio into the tub even when the house was first built.
I've replaced all the remaining 2 prong (non-polarized and non-grounded) outlets with 3 prong polarized throughout (Ground wires were provided to all the 2 prong boxes, and were metered by me to make sure during the upgrade, but every one was installed correctly by the original electricians). I've added GFI circuits to the baths and kitchen and removed two of the original 240 V circuits (the ones for the oven and dryer circuits, as we have a gas oven and dryer, and I needed the current for additional 120 V outlets), but that's about it. I still have a 240 V circuit that I upgraded in the 1970's from NEMA-10 series to NEMA-6-30 dual outlets, for some the basement power tools, but NEMA-10 was actually a very safe grounded system the way most contractors installed it, way back in the 1950's.
(Usually, people put NEMA-10 circuits in to work with all metal cased large appliances, with the case wired to the third pin for ground, even though they didn't technically have to by code, and the ground technically was only for neutral on various AC Motors inside the cases.). Many appliances were manufactured only with this system already in place, and often came with instructions to make sure your home wiring had already been done compatibly. Sure, the code didn't actually demand all that, but the typical person wiring up their own 240 volt dryer probably RTFM'ed back then, and anyone who bought the kind of power tools I still have on 240 V and didn't, probably died when the 44" inch bed planer/jointer ate their arms, usually long before they managed to get electrocuted (And I shudder to think what kind of accidents are possible with the arc welder whether it's grounded right or not.).
Comparing electrical codes doesn't tell you that much - at a guess, most places in the US that needed 240 seriously exceeded code back when NEMA-10 was common. The British code has ring-mains, and single drops off of rings. Supposedly, you're not supposed to wire a new line tee'd off of another line, just directly off of the main ring. How much would anyone bet that got followed often enough to make their systems actually safer?
Who is John Cabal?
What I find amusing with all of his boasting about "safety features" is that the real motivation behind the British outlet had little to do with safety in the first place - it had to do with economy.
Much of the electrical infrastructure in the UK was damaged during WWII and had to be rebuilt. Since there was a shortage of copper at the time, they decided that they could save wiring by putting the fuse in the plug and daisy chaining the outlets rather than connecting all of the outlets to a common fusebox. That also explains the mandatory covers: you really don't want to be shorting the outlet when there isn't a fuse to cut off the juice...
Your sad devotion to those ancient electrical plugs hasn't given you clairvoyance enough to stop the Nazis from bombing your cities or helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes.
Hokey fuses and ancient plug designs are no match for a good American socket in your wall, kid.
If this is a news site for nerds, then why is this a flamewar about A/C plugs? Commander! Tear this site apart until you've found some nerds. And bring me the women, I want them alive!
The best system in the world, for real, is a combination of the Europlug and the Schuko plug. Proper Europlugs and Schuko plugs have bodies which fit partly into the wall so the load is not taken by the pins. The Europlug pins are partly insulated so if you can see metal, it's safe. You can fit lots of them onto a power strip, so a strip for electronics can have many connectors in a small space while a power extender can give you 16A in a small footprint.
The reason the UK still has the BS1363 plug is because it has square pins, and the manufacturers thought the Chinese would not want to invest in special tooling to make them when they had the world of round pins or cheap strip pins (as in US) to go after. Then Mrs. Thatcher came along and they decided to let the Chinese make them anyway.
Every time you buy a computer in the UK you get a BS 1363 to IEC lead and a Schuko to IEC lead. That's how cheap they are: manufacturers throw them away rather than be bothered to have two different SKUs.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I don't think any of the circuits in my house are > 15A (excluding the huge AC unit, which is 30A on its own circuit).
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
This twit is annoying and incorrect! I have a 6.3L V8 in my daily driver. My wife has a 7.3L Turbo Diesel in her Excursion.
Damn Brits! Get it right and drive on the Right as well!!
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
And to clarify what fiery death means, the wire running to the outlet will try to deliver the demanded current, and it's typically too small a gauge to supply it without heating internally. The wire heats up, and either a breaker trips (or fuse blows), or a fire starts, somewhere in the home walls where you can't see it at first.
You can get this with a typical room heater, drawing about 1750 Watts. at 110 volts, that's nearly 17 Amps, just a smidge more than the standard 15 Amp circuit is rated for. Put a couple of 150 Watt bulbs on the same circuit, and the circuit wiring will heat up. A 20 amp fuse or breaker on line only graded for 15 can be quite enough to let that heat get serious.
There are tolerances built into the ratings - if you're not an electrician (or an EE who actually has some practical experience), please forget I said that, and believe there are NO tolerances built into the ratings.
Don't get me started on aluminum wiring in mobile homes, and various other criminal practices still within the older codes.
Who is John Cabal?
How many lives do the more dangerous smaller plugs cost? I'm having trouble finding any solid statistics; but most of the literature I have been able to dig up suggests that electrocution deaths are not all that common, and are heavily concentrated in occupational contexts(electricians and their minions, people coming into unexpected contact with overhead lines in agricultural and construction situations, and some industrial/mining incidents) rather than end user scenarios, where the shrouds and shutters might make a difference.
The classic "baby sticking a fork in the socket and dying a sizzly death" scenario seems remarkably thin on the ground.
I didn't realize that Apple was an arm of the government. Well, I guess we can expect compulsory vegetarianism and black turtlenecks in the future! I can't wait!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Other way around, I believe.
Building code requiring it came first.
Bank started requiring it later to make sure the building is up to code.
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
An American created open source. A Finn couldn't figure out how to get write an OS and talked other people into doing it for him.
Are we going to keep doing this nationalist crap, or can we realize it take people from every country to progress?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Cuter than the Danish smiley? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:K_plug.jpg ...didn't think so.
A proud member of the Onion-in-Hand alliance
Sockets don't kill people, electricity does!
> I actually doubt most British circuits are GFI protected
They all are. All houses have a central ground-fault trip system.
> one of the legs IS earthed
It's the other one that gets you.
> If they get misused and a fire starts, it's the owner's fault.
You could say the same about guns.
>Both are available, just not mandated. If you don't have kids, why do you need the safety shutters?
That's not very imaginative. Come on - you have no kids now, but are there scenarios between now and 2200AD where kids might be at risk - not to mention careless adults?
> Ohm's law, I think. Warm? BFD - so does British wiring, just not as much.
Heating in UK power cords is imperceptible. You just never notice it. Perhaps below perception level. In North America I was appalled to find vacuum and iron leads getting warm, and plugs getting hot.
>" and the lights change brightness when I switch such appliances on and off."
> That's the house wiring, not the system wiring.
It is the system design. At 110/120V you have double the current compared to 240V, and so double the voltage loss in wiring due to resistance (and 4x the heating due to Ohm's law as you say, since heating is prop. to I*I/R). So fluctuations are much more noticeable in 110V systems.
>The British took the Nanny state route. I'm not shedding any tears.
Not really, just good/better engineering standards (for once).
North American wiring standards talk about avoiding sharp bends in wires to reduce fire hazards. Probably due to high currents required of 110V systems.
I'd love to know the real reason, if there is one, but I've always assumed that the US went for 110V because:
1. Choice of voltage affects copper losses, combated by having more copper to carry current, so in a country with ample copper resources, why not have lower voltage and more copper?
2. Most US homes have timber construction more at risk from electrical shorting. So why not use a lower voltage to lower shorting risks? Whereas most UK homes are brick construction (used to be anyway) and a little more tolerant in this respect.
TFA is completely jingoistic, sure. It's great to read if you're a Brit but the style would get up your nose if you were from just about anywhere else, but there is some truth that the UK system is better engineered - not just for safety, but for other reasons. Perhaps it is over-engineered. UK plugs really are huge, after all. UK police are generally good too. Hmm... I'm having trouble thinking of things after that. Oh yes - pay-as-you-go minutes that don't expire - that's good.
That "current UK tech" *is* from 50 years ago - that's how our plugs have been for a very long time - since 1946 in fact. So 63 years.
We also have RCDs on our circuits in addition to fuses - Even the ancient house I live in has an RCD protecting the mains sockets and the light circuits.
Oh, don't get me started on 120V. It's a huge waste of copper and power that we only went with because it's easier to make a 120V incandescent lightbulb than a 240V. :P
Anyway, you won't find a 120V 30A outlet in your average US home because we run most higher power devices at (the more reasonable) 240V (although we do it in a weird way -- split phase). But even in that case, it'd still be useful. Homes usually have both 30A and 50A 240V sockets. But you can't plug a 30A into a 50A without an adapter, even though there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to. And you should also be able to plug a 120V plug into one phase of your 240V/30A or 50A sockets, but you can't do that without an adapter, either.
OTOH 110v 20A is a lot more common, and you can plug a 110v 15A plug into a 110v 20A outlet;
Only if you have a special 15A/20A hybrid outlet. The standard NEMA 5-20R doesn't have a T-shaped slot; it only has the horizontal on that side. This is the US trying to correct a weakness in our outlet system after it was discovered; it's a bandaid on the problem of having entirely different pin layouts on each socket. The Australian standard of having different pin *sizes* deals with this problem automatically.
sed "s/SJW.*$/... never mind. I was about to say something stupid, and also, I'm a troglodyte./Ig"
So (excluding British plugs) which plug would you choose to champion? Any?
Of those that I've used personally - Soviet, Euro, Australian/NZ, and North American - I liked the southern one most, strictly on the basis of convenience. It has 3 asymmetric pins, so you can grab it and plug it in correctly in one try without even looking at it, a feat I couldn't repeat with any other design. Plus, having a power switch on every plug is both handy and a good safety feature (and the switches normally also glow when turned on, so if you keep one that way you can find it in the dark).
Looking at pictures for British plug, it seems that its 3 pins are in a similar configuration, but there's no switch or glowing LED.
"GFCI sense current to ground"
Nope, it's a toroid which generates current to trip a switch when there's a difference in the current between the hot and the neutral. It works just fine with no ground at all. The only time you'd have a difference between these at the outlet, is if current escapes the system through a path other than the outlet.
I looked into it when the electrical code forced me to replace the illegally retrofitted three conductor grounded outlets in my house with ground-fault circuits. It didn't make any sense to me without a ground... but lo and behold, they do indeed work with no ground at all.
Americans bagging Brits. As an Australian, I'm torn as to which side to take. I guess I'll just have to bag the New Zealanders instead.
- Chuq
Nope. The electrician didn't fuck up.
If you take a look at the electrical code, and at the 15 amp outlets you're talking about you'll notice two things.
1. That 15 amp outlet is rated for 20 amps pass thru current.
2. The electrical code permits a 20 amp circuit to have multiple 15 amp outlets.
So if you want to see if the electrician did things correctly, check
1. Is the 20 amp circuit wired with 12 gauge copper wire or heavier?
2. Are there multiple 15 amp outlets on the circuit?
If both answers are "yes", he did things according to code.
Not only that, they lauded the Italian plugs for handling "up to 10 or even 16 amps". Any standard American plug will do 15, and for a couple of dimes more, you can get one that will do 20 amps.
They deride the American plug because an ungrounded (2-prong) plug can make the cord easy to pull out, laud the 3-pronged European plugs for being harder to pull out... but ignore 3-pronged (grounded) American plugs.
The shuttering that they say makes UK plugs better... is now mandatory in the USA.
I agree on the "nationalistic garbage" stuff. Maybe there's a bit of ignorance mixed in, but still... he just wanted to gripe about the Americans.
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
The shutters on UK plug sockets are built out of distilled Chuck Norris.
That's why the metal bits on the plugs are so fat and butch.
You can kill someone with a UK plug, and not only by leaving it lying around for someone to step on barefoot.
However it is a big plug, and a big socket. Someone did design a thin version though.
I liked Denmark's happy face design myself.
I like the switch on Aussie sockets, but you have to be real careful to switch off unused sockets or a lot of electricity leaks out costing you $$$.
So if an adult doesn't replace the worn out receptacles (a problem which is amusingly alien to a UK reader, by the way) then their 4 year old child 'deserves' to be fatally electrocuted? Why don't you think before you bash your fists on the keyboard next time?
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
House circuit breakers are designed to trip in the region of many amps. Trip time is dependent upon the degree of overload; 100 A trhu a 10 A breaker will trip in a few milliseconds. Where the current is flowing through your body determines how much current is requires to kill you quickly (by heart failure). I've read that currents of an amp or more won't stop your heart from beating if the current is removed promptly. (It'll be painful as hell, may do some sort of permanent damage, and there's no guarantee the heart won't stop in particular instances.) Current figures like 5 mA, 50 mA are generally quite dangerous if they take a route through your body that includes your heart. These low currents can set your heart into fibrillation. Ground Fault Interrupters can trip at 5 mA in 25 ms, which should be quick enough.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
> Well, he also thinks that a country that loses many times more people to cancer than the USA-- and has people with life-threatening conditions on waiting lists for months-- has a great health system.
Well, it's better than your free healthcare!
Seriously though, the really fantastic thing about the UK system is that it provides a baseline that you can't fall past. However bad things are, it's always there. Want better? Get medical insurance. For example, I pay Bupa ( http://bupa.co.uk/ ) £35-ish/month, which covers any tests I need done, and any surgery. That's not after an employer contribution, that's £35/month all in.
But kids will happily get their hands on pens, paper clips, random tools (screwdriver?), forks, tweezers, keys and coins. In fact, you would be amazed what kids get their hands on in the course of 30 seconds.
The plug was designed so that as well as unfolding to plug into british sockets it could plug into special sockets while still folded.
Not that I think they have much chance of getting it past the regulators and produced in sufficiant quantities to make a difference. The article doesn't even make it clear if they have a functioning prototype yet or just mockups.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Apparently, it's a common feature in the UK to have a single high current line supplying most of the house. In the US, there would be several breakers and several wires for the same purpose.
I like the UK scheme. It's more economical and more rugged. Protection is provided where it's needed, at the individual plug. The big disadvantage is that if you do manage to make a good solid short at one outlet, you trip the main breaker and the whole house goes dark.
The UK uses 240 V, which also reduces wiring losses in the house This is a big deal in these days of conservation, and it's nice not to have the lights dim when you switch on a vacuum cleaner.
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So, we're all in agreement then?
in other news, Canadians invented basketball, the minivan, the donut, and perfected bacon. Where would y'all be without us!
Making the rounds of the blogs and TV shows is the story of William Kamkwamba, a young man from Malawi who, at age 14, taught himself enough about electricity to build a windmill generator for his house. But what kills me is that he made a GFCI from ... nails, wire and a magnet. Look at this video of his appearance on The Daily Show last month, specifically starting 2 minutes in, and note his description of what it does. (here's a picture) He calls it a circuit breaker, but that is functionally actually a GFCI! Jesus H. Christ, that is brilliant!
One simple rule for its versus it's
Yeah, now you know how we feel when somebody bring up Australia! on the one hand you gave us Mad Max, one of the best damned movies ever created in the history of everything, well that's good. But on the other hand you sent over Yahoo Serious and Paul Hogan, which should have been considered a war crime or something. I mean, what did we ever do to you?
Hogan was bad enough, especially when he just kept hitting that snooze alarm on his 15 minutes, but Yahoo Serious? That is like WMD level of evil there pal, and you guys didn't even say you were sorry. It is bad enough we got those damned Canucks letting their evil spill over the border, like that harpy Celine Dion, but what in the hell did the USA ever do to Australia to deserve the unleashing of Yahoo Serious? Didn't us helping you out against the Japs in WWII count for anything?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
> Because it's not to code. A bathrooms outlets must be on a circuit unto themselves.
It depends. My house was built in 1982, and it had a single GFCI breaker that fed the outlets in both bathrooms, the garbage disposal, and the outdoor power outlets. However, when I gutted it to the studs & concrete, I redid all the bathroom's wiring, so they're now on a separate circuit. I even ran an extra neutral, so I could could make the two other second-floor circuits AFCI-protected. For the record, the biggest problem people run into when trying to retrofit AFCI breakers is the fact that every AFCI-protected 'hot' wire needs its own neutral, but most 20th century American homes run circuits with a single neutral wire shared by a pair of 'hot' wires between the circuit breaker panel and some outlet or switch box on the other side of the house where the two circuits diverge. It worked, because the two 'hot' wires come from opposite legs of the transformer, and it ironically decreases the current carried by the neutral wire to the panel (the two hot wires are always opposite in polarity, besides the brief moment every ~1/30 second when they're both at the zero crossing and equal). Unfortunately, if you share a neutral between two circuits, the AFCI breakers can't work.
everything you need for an all night hack! Thanks America!
"US plugs are safer because they only carry 110v. That, in and of itself, makes US wiring safer. 220v is much more deadly than 110v"
It makes no difference, both voltages are high enough to kill.
"I have grabbed live wires at a plug a few times in my life, and it just jolts your arm a little bit."
You can do the same thing with 220-240v with no issues in the same circumstances as 110v.
ie: keep one hand behind your back, and prevent even an accidental touch from creating a circuit across your chest. And make sure you touch things such that contracting muscles will pull you away from the current.
I know of several people that have had a hand zapped by 240v, and you'll find a lot of tv repairman that have been zapped by far worse.
It's the current that kills, the voltage just needs to be high enough to overcome the resistance of your skin, and even 110v is more than enough for this.
"Bottom line, I am seriously not worried one bit about grabbing live outlet lines. It hurts a little, so I don't do it for fun, but I'm really not worried about dying or anything."
You are ignorant or stupid I'm not sure which. It is dangerous, the fact that you have not yet been killed doesn't mean you won't be.
Ugh. Don't go calling people morons in a subject you don't know anything about.
If you're in North America, go read the local electrical code before commenting on house wiring. I can't comment if you're in an area with 240VAC, they're more strict about electrocution hazards.
Also do some thinking about your imaginary computer power supply malfunction on a non-GFIC protected outlet. All case-grounded appliances on the circuit are now case-live. Somebody leans on a radiator to plug in a fully functional case-ground vacuum cleaner. Now there's a secondary path from live on the computer, through the shared ground, into the case of the vacuum, through the right arm, through the chest, down the left arm and through the radiator going to ground.
Current doesn't travel the path of least resistance, it shares the paths. Your ground wires are not super-conductors, so while they'll create a secondary path to ground, they won't negate a third path.
That said, ungrounded outlets are not desirable. They're not safe for (unless they have a working GFIC), and they mess up shielding for devices like guitar amplifiers. They also don't have a discharge path for static electricity.
And BTW, if you short live to ground, you *will* blow the breaker unless your ground is installed improperly.
"The classic "baby sticking a fork in the socket and dying a sizzly death" scenario seems remarkably thin on the ground."
At the age of two, my son became infatuated with wall sockets (American). Despite putting plastic adapters and other security precautions, he managed to stick tweezers into a wall socket. He did not die but he never played with wall sockets again. :)
strike
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
From the stats I can find, UK deaths by electrical outlets are .486 per 100,000 and US rates are .015 per 100,000, more than an order of magnitude safer, even without massive numbers of safety features.
Does that include death by fires stared by electrical faults? I don't know the statistics, but anecdotally, household fires are alarmingly more common in the US than anywhere else I've lived.
... and then they built the supercollider.