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Cuba Jails US Worker Handing Out Laptops, Cellphones
eldavojohn writes "An American citizen working as a contractor for the United States Agency for International Development has been arrested for giving away laptops and cellphones in Cuba. The intent was to enable activists to connect with each other and spread information of what's happening inside Cuba. From the article: 'Cellphones and laptops are legal in Cuba, though they are new and coveted commodities in a country where the average worker's wage is $15 a month. The Cuban government granted ordinary citizens the right to buy cellphones just last year; they are used mostly for texting, because a 15-minute phone conversation would eat up a day's wages.' A Representative on the House Foreign Affairs Committee said the arrest was 'no surprise' while a human rights watch group cited a report outlining the Cuban Criminal Code offense of 'dangerousness,' which is most likely the one for which this individual was detained. There is at present no way to contact the individual nor official word on why he was detained." The article quotes an actvist with Human Rights Watch who said that "any solution to the contractor's case would probably be political" and that "the Cuban government often provokes a negative reaction in the United States just as [the two] countries begin to move toward more dialogue."
How is this news? Big fat DUH factor here that this would happen. It's CUBA for crying out loud!!!
Michael Moore told us Cuba should be a model for the US. I guess he meant "free" health care comes at the cost of only having $15 dollars in your paycheck at the end of the day.
There is at present no way to contact the individual nor official word on why he was detained.
He should have kept one of the phones or laptops for himself.
Oops.
This highlights exactly why the US embargo fails. Had it been lifted many years ago, perhaps Cubans would have already overthrown their dictatorship and established a free way of life. But instead the US insists on keeping a broken embargo in place that, if removed long ago, could have paved the way for Cubans to own cell phones and laptops long before this.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Chi Chi! Get the yayo!
Free laptops and cellphones huh? Any malware/spyware installed on those?
I wouldn't trust it unless I could wipe it.
just like the US would were some foreign government trying to overthrow our government.
It is instructive to note how many useful idiots keep calling to normalize relations with the sort of barbarians that lock people up for passing out cell phones.
Normalize travel and trade with these animals? Really?
Seriously, would YOU travel into such a hellhole? Do business as usual with such a morally bankrupt regime and expect them to honor contracts like civilized people?
Democrat delenda est
"Raul Castro's government has relied in particular on a provision of the Cuban Criminal Code that allows the state to imprison individuals before they have committed a crime, on the suspicion that they might commit and offense in the future. This "dangerousness" provision is overtly political, defining "dangerousness" as any behavior that contradicts socialist norms. The most Orwellian of Cuba's laws, it captures the essence of the Cuban government's repressive mindset, which views anyone who acts out of step with the government as a potential thread, and thus worthy of punishment."
Reading this, it's no wonder to me that I walked out on the movie Minority Report about 10 minutes in, because it's exactly like that. My sympathies to the poor bastard and his family, they'll probably never see him alive ever again.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Seems to me he was, so he's either playing dumb, or actually dumb.
People that don't want to get bitten don't go around pulling cat's tails.
Sent from my PDP-11
His health care while in prison will be better than that he would have in the US and is free.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
...to keep its nose of other people's business. The US government's "freedom" fighters can't wait to destroy Cuba. What right does the US have to be there trying to create chaos?
Who is this Karma guy and why is he bad ??
So here he was, an American in a foreign country who was providing material means for people to rebel, overthrow, dissent, terrorise their legal government. One does wonder what would happen if an Iranian or Iraqi came into America and provided material means for people to rebel, overthrow, dissent terrorise the American government? Maybe a book on how to achieve things? Would said Iranian or Iraqi have been imprisoned under American laws? Maybe even sent to a place where torture was the norm like Guantanamo or one of the secret CIA prison camps on European soil?
Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina
In addition to this, unsurprisingly, the Cuban government doesn't have draconian laws against copyright, trademark or patent infringement. They don't have much IP of their own to protect, and they are not keen on respecting other nations' IPR tipping their trade balance into the negative. Nobody in Cuba gets done for copyright infringement, especially not for P2P of foreign music or films.
Unsurprisingly, the US wants to get Cuba back into the mainstream of nations by getting them to adopt the legal norms of the G20, and ultimately stronger IPR enforcement.
You don't have to like the laws of other nations, but when within their borders you have to follow them or face the consequences.
When visiting the U.S. would I not be expected to follow U.S. laws. If I have a problem with this my choices are not to go to the U.S.
If you went and did the same thing in Australia you'd be charged as well, granted you'd only get a fine and not jail time the only difference is that we'd charge you under our tax and import laws (nice and civil like). The person in question went there with the express purpose of undermining the government, whether you agree with it or not it is illegal, not to mention ill thought out given the relative ease this person was caught.
Now if handing out technology to a developing nation's people was this persons goal there are many better, legal methods of doing it. There are literally dozens of charities dedicated to this goal.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Without those cell phones and laptops (paid for by the USA), how are people meant to use their training in democracy and civil society (paid for by the USA) to organize spontaneous demonstrations and peaceful non-violent provocations (paid for by the USA) to install a new democratic leader (paid for by the USA)?
Mod me down but while I think Cubans should be able to access the internet and communicate freely I think they should be left alone to work out their own problems. Cuba has been under attack (sanctions etc) for a very long time and you have to bear in mind the US relationship with central and south America hasn't exactly been hmmm how shall we say very fair. The US has been happy to triain death squads at the school of americas http://www.soaw.org/ and fund the over throw of democractically ellected goverments (Chile, Nicuragua, Guatmala most recenly the atempt in Venuzuela and not to mention Syrian and Iran) so you could see the leader ship in Cuba might be a little paranoid.
We have a similar catch-all equivalent, called "causing a public disturbance".
I wonder exactly how people would react if an Extreemist Muslim cleric was handing out anonymous cellphones to
'activists' within the US... Attempting to undermine the controling power is never going to get a positive reaction.
India has just had a big clampdown on such phones due to the Mumbai bombings (big misreaction IMHO).
Not of course that I support either action, all are IMHO bad things, but giving these things out in Cuda is definately
asking for trouble, just as the opposite would be in the US.
Thank god I am not in either place.
at least they have a better health care system in cuba! isn't that worth trading your freedoms away for?
An American citizen working as a contractor for the United States Agency for International Development has been arrested for giving away laptops and cellphones in Cuba. The intent was to enable activists to connect with each other and spread information of what's happening inside Cuba
What I see here is clumsily staged bit of agitprop worthy of Bush and Cheney - and very high risk for any Cuban activist foolish enough to become involved.
When visiting the U.S. would I not be expected to follow U.S. laws.
Of course, you neatly skip over the laws that are so hard to follow between the two countries - in the U.S. for example, we frown on you killing people and so on.
All this guy did was hand out cell phones and laptops. That the people he was handing them to could buy if they could afford them. So they could communicate.
Now why exactly is the U.S. the monster in this scenario again? If you came to the U.S. handing out laptops and cellphones, I am pretty sure you would not be jailed. Unless you tried to give out RAZR phones, in which case you might well be shot but then of course you'd deserve it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I wonder when is the US going to do anything serious about the democracy deterioration in latin america.
The list of countries where democracy is falling apart is growing year by year. First it was only Cuba, but then Venezuela's Chavez joined the club. Chavez is so determined in exporting his ideology that he has successfully used the country's wealth to build alliances and undermine democracy in Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and in less measure Argentina, and now he is trying really hard in Honduras, Peru and Colombia.
Jeez, the Cubans are getting lax. Hard to find good, old fashioned totalitarians these days.
> One does wonder what would happen if an Iranian or Iraqi came into America and provided material means for
> people to rebel, overthrow, dissent terrorise the American government?
And this kids is why you shouldn't grow up to be a marxist whore. You have to do crap like this, attempting to equate the US and Cuban system to make a case there is no real difference. Night and fricking day dude.
Perhaps you missed the President of Iran openly speaking here in the US? Not just at the UN, but at a major US University. Hell, take a look in the Middle Eastern Studies dept of most any US institution of higher education and you can find terrorist symps holding forth daily before captive audiences.
The Fracking Fundi Saudi Islamists openly operate schools in the US and teach jihad.
I don't want Nancy Pelosi in prison, I just want her removed from office. If you can't see that fundamental difference in the two political systems there just is no hope for ya.
> Maybe a book on how to achieve things?
We don't need to import that stuff, we have tenured professors like William Ayers not only writing how to manuals but actually regretting not blowing more shit up.
Democrat delenda est
Or some other high-profile douchebag who can get them out scott-free.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Reverse it. Suppose foreigners had come here and started handing out goods we labeled contraband but were perfectly legal in their respective countries. We would likely react accordingly and arrest (or at least detain and deport) them. How about we change our attitudes regarding other nations to something like this: mind our own damn business. Thank you for reading.
I wonder how somebody doing the same kind of thing would have been treated in Chile under Pinochet, or one of the other countries where the US has installed its own bloody-handed dictators. Actually, I don't wonder at all. At least in Cuba the guy has a chance of getting out alive. If Pinochet or one of the other US puppets got hold of him, he'd already be missing some body parts and rotting in a shallow grave somewhere.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I really don't know why Michael Moore got so much credit over Cuba's free health care system; their country is falling apart structually, industry is failing and their economic ways have even taken to capitalist style when he had to stick his foot in his mouth over the farming incident when socialism collapsed on their dream world.
Oh wait, it's Americas fault for the embargo and a man who stayed in power for 30+ years and than hands it off to his brother. As bad as it was with the Mafia running things in little Havana, living standards and economy was better than. Mafia did a better job than the 'Castro empire'.
If getting locked up for trying to show people the 'truth' and not a filtered censored version is a crime, than these people should be rewarded the humanitarian award.
The weak spineless cowards around here will claim that the same sentence would be handed to them if they tried that in America, except the argument doesn't work because it is really fundamental human rights at work. So I don't know why some around here try to justify it.
Were the people criminals who hide Anne Frank?
I think you're missing the point. It's about laptops per se - it's encouraging dissent.
And what is YOUR point. Here in the U.S. we encourage freedom of speech. Even people giving death threats against sitting presidents (on either side) are at worst questioned - if they are even talked to at all!
Are you saying he was advocating violent overthrow of the sitting Cuban government, and providing arms? Now THAT might get you put in the hoosegow here. But AFIAK, we was handing out laptops! And cell phones! I don't think he was even advising them to drop them from a great height onto the heads of government officials, just to talk to other people or post thoughts on the internet... which you can do in the U.S. (even about Nazis, unlike Europe).
How you can equate Cuba to the U.S., it is totally unfathomable and frankly I think calls for a complete and total re-evaluation of any worldview that leads to that conclusion so readily in this case.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You're aware that only 8.5% of US oil imports come from Saudi Arabia, right?
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm
60% of U.S. oil imports are from non-OPEC nations; OPEC nations. The single largest supplier, by volume, is Canada, followed by Mexico.
Of the OPEC nations, the biggest supplier is currently Venezuela, though they were edged out by Saudi Arabia for a couple months this year (last April and July).
Basically, if it was about the oil, we could tell them to pound sand today; we simply aren't getting that much oil from them. What the U.S. gets of of the relationship is a more or less stable Middle East.
-- Terry
Kim? That you? Thought you have no internet in North Korea?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The Cuban government granted ordinary citizens the right to buy cellphones just last year; they are used mostly for texting, because a 15-minute phone conversation would eat up a day's wages.
Ironically, in order to get the same information as a 15 minute phone conversation takes 2 hours when texting, and eats up 3 days wages.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Relevant quotes from the articles:
These were the same charges--including possession of an instrument of a crime, his cell phone--that police leveled against Sellers to argue for his imprisonment on $1 million bail this past August.
One of those arrested, a nineteen year old college student, was charged with carrying a lethal weapon, a cell phone he was talking on at the time, and has$500,000 bail.
They should just declare him a "material witness" or "enemy combatant" and then they don't have to worry about providing any proof or even saying what he did wrong.
While you're joking, IIRC, Kim actually does have an Internet connection; and he's pretty much the only person in the country who does (there's also an an Internet cafe for foreign tourists).
the reason for this is they live in democracy: their government is composed of people of their choosing. this means the american government is a legitimate representation of the will of the american people. so there's nothing to rebel against, because who is in the white house is who the american people want to have in the white house
meanwhile, in nondemocracies like cuba, north korea, china, and iran, the people are not consulted as to the composition of their government. so there is the agenda of the ruling class, and the agenda of the common man, and these are two different agendas. therefore the government has to oppress the people, because it fears the people will rebel
that's some intellectual charity for you. try to understand the fucking obvious next time. because currently, your inability to see obvious huge crimes by truly horrendous oppressive criminal regimes because you are so obsessed with prosecuting the usa's crimes only makes you look like you have some tribal hard on for the usa, and that you don't actually fight for anything like principals or a sense of justice in this world. we're glad you have a burning vendetta against the usa. who the fuck cares. when you are so blinded by your rage against the usa that you are ready to embrace far worse evil in this world, that just makes you pathetic and useless to whatever you think you are fighting for
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
At the risk of joining the flame war about free speech, I wanted to say that I appreciate free speech, and the USA clamps down on it from time to time, just as all countries do.
Don't believe me? Think about this.
As a journalist I travelled into the USA recently. Apparently as part of the US "war on terror" foreign journalists are now required to explain why they are entering the United States. They have to explain details of any stories they want to work on, and say which states I was travelling in. This is designed apparently to stop the wrong type of reporters getting news out of America.
This is nothing new. When Mike Moore travelled to Cuba as part of a documentary he was making, he was threatened with legal action, because there are restrictions in place regarding travel to Cuba. The USA is content for negative messages about Cuba, but cannot bear for a documentary to be made about the country that may tell a different story.
I remember how the US TV networks stopped running footage of Osama Bin Laden too, apparently because his hand gestures were giving coded signals to operatives about when and where to attack. Mind you it had absolutely nothing to do with the US government trying to stamp out political speech.
The fact that Al Qaeda operatives could freely watch his speeches online apparently slipped by the US govt.
Cuba clamping down on anti-government activists is nothing new, but lets not pretend the US govt doesn't play the same games when it suits them.
If the pattern goes 9am, 10am, 11am, why isn't noon 12am?
That's overstating it, there are more than a handful of people with access to Internet, and while the country's relationship with Japan and the USA is not very good, you can meet many non-deserted North Koreans studying abroad in many countries. Even Kim's kids.
I am from a NATO country but the guys I met 5 years ago didn't seem to have any problem getting their visas. We even played soccer together with my SK roommate.
Of course, that's only for trusted party and Kim family members, but no kingdom or dictatorship can support itself without sharing some of its power with the bureaucrats and the military/clergy.
-Anonymous not to undo moderation.
Or maybe the Castro brothers were just pissed at AT&T's poor 3G coverage outside of Havana.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
is a weapon-enforced petrodollar - just because the USA doesn't actually import the oil, doesn't mean there is no strategic interest in *controlling* who can buy that oil and under what conditions they do so. If it wasn't about the oil (read: greenback support), then just what the fuck is the USA doing in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place? Oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot the modern mantra: kill 'em over there so they don't kill us over here - lalalala - psychotic thieves, at best...
"There is at present no way to contact the individual"
Well he should have thought of that before handing out all those phones for free!
If you go openly and give in a non-democratic country laptop and cell phone with the explicit intent to possibly undermine the local government ("The intent was to enable activists to connect with each other and spread information of what's happening inside Cuba"), then when that said government jail you for "sedition" or whatever, you get what was coming to you. Their intent is laudable, but get real, what sort of reaction would you expect from a non-democratic government ? A smile and a tap on the shoulder ? Yeah, right.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
in contrast, in america one needs nothing to be jailed, http://it.slashdot.org/story/07/09/21/1849208/MIT-Student-Arrested-For-Wearing-Tech-Art-Shirt-At-Airport
I work for a major NGO that is heavily involved in USAID contracting. Until recently, it was my job to manage US export compliance for all technical hardware leaving the US. While we did not work in Cuba, we worked heavily in other countries sanctioned by US. There are two things about this story that don't add up. 1) The US heavily controls the export of technical equipment such as laptops and cell phones, so much that individual licenses must be granted to each item, and each item must be accounted for every single year. There is an entire office established just to control these items, called the Bureau of Industry and Security (http://www.bis.doc.gov/). Failure to comply with such regulations results in massive fines (in the millions of dollars) for the contracting agency, and even imprisonment for the guilty individuals. The theory is: technical equipment could be use for "Anti-American activities" if given to the wrong parties, and under NO circumstances are agencies allowed to freely hand out computers or other similar things. 2) I don't see anything in this article talking about repercussions from the US government. For this person to just freely hand out goods means he had special permission that is very rarely granted to any USAID partners (or any other American for that matter). It sounds like this person/agency was directly involved in activities that go well beyond USAID's mandate, and was a thinly veiled political maneuver. I don't think the Cuban government was targeting this person just because he was handing out computers, I think he was being targeted because he was supporting a subversive political tactic from a hostile party. Not that anyone didn't already suspect this, but just stating the obvious....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
Discuss.
America, land of the free. As long as you agree with the party-line. As ex-soviet reporters have commented, the differences between the soviet union and the US are not all that big. Tell me, do they still have camps for the homeless in the US? Food stamps? Waiting in line for the food kitchen?
The US has created a very smart system, it is similar to what religious groups use. Sure you can criticize, HERETIC! Just see what happens if you dare to protest against copyright... how many hundreds of millions are you fined with? No, it is not the same as being tortured and shipped to some re-education center. It is far better. People are willing to die for freedom, spend the rest of their life in poverty, not so much.
You can see the true freedom in the US with cases such as the Dixie Chicks. Freedom should be MORE then just being able to say what everyone else says. What westerners often get wrong about dictatorships like Cube, Russia, Soviet Union (Russia today is not free), China etc is that they are NOT what you see in McGuyver episodes. There isn't a commisar on every corner, not everything is monitored and controlled. Rather, they use the fear of being noticed when you dare to stand out to stop you from standing out. And they "use" a few who are allowed to stand out but are slapped down from time to time to remind everyone what happens.
Same as western society when you dare question things. Copyright, mod-chips, they might seem like minor issues but it is what the powers that be care about in the west, and if you question them, you are slapped down. For that matter, what have all dictarorships got in common? Repression of the rights of homo-sexuals (true communism would give full rights to everyone). What western country is most repressive of gay-rights? Thank you.
Be very careful about thinking you are free just because they allow you to certain freedoms. A free-range chicken still gets eaten.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
"the average worker's wage is $15 a month" - No it isn't. Cuba does not use the dollar.
This is the usual bullshit propaganda from the kind of people that want you to believe that third-world workers on two dollars a day can't afford to eat. They arrive at this rubbish by pricing first-world food at first-world prices (herb ciabatta from a New York delicatessen at $4 a loaf, instead of flat bread baked by the family where the ingredients are grown by the local farmers and sold at market for less than quarter of a day's wages).
The developing world does not price its goods in dollars, nor do they shop at the deli counter. Get over it.
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
In Soviet USA your laptop and cellphone can get you arrested if you DON'T hand them out!
it was a mistake
now would you like to criticize the cuban government for being assholes at some point? or do you wish to do nothing but continually retry old grievances from a dead era?
at some point you are going to have to pick a side in struggles actually going on today
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
And if a Muslim were passing out pamphlets in the US about atrocities done in Iraq, or under Bush, counting and naming the dead from the war there, they would be doing the same.
In fact, the mainstream media were threatened with just such draconian sanction and a senator currently sitting was nearly shouted down and he's being demanded to give an apology for merely giving out the number of people who have died from lack of healthcare in the US. Not names, just the numbers.
A SENATOR.
What do you reckon would happen to an Amnesty International worker doing the same?
just as soon as they give the cuban PEOPLE a voice in their own affairs
i respect democracies. i have no respect for regimes where a ruling class rules over the common man. simply because that regime has an agenda all of its own, and therefore does not respect the common man. only a democracy manufactures the legitimacy that a citizen of that country can respect, and therefore only a democracy is legitimate in my eyes as well, out of respect for the PEOPLE of that country on my part
concern for my fellow man does not abide petty things like tribal boundaries. i am not an american. i am a human being. this means i care about how other human beings are treated in this world. this allegiance is greater than my allegiance to any country. this allegiance gives me the moral right to oppose regimes that do not respect their own people they do not consider to have a right to their own voice in their own government
this is the only valid point of view for those of us who wish to be morally and logically coherent on questions of principles in this world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Marking you enemy combatant is completely sufficient to legaly expose you to torture.
What a country !
there is no class of people who decides who runs the place except for the common man. of course there is influence like money and celebrity which warps the process, but i would like you to create for me a democracy where celebrity and money do not warp the process. no democracy is perfect: it is made of imperfect men, therefore it is inescapably imperfect. that you point out to me that the democracy i live is imperfect is an observation of no value: its obvious to everyone, you are not telling us anything we do not already know, and already accept as unfortunate but unavoidable. we strive to improve it. what else can you do? no democracy will ever be perfect. and yet it is certainly better than any other kind of government you can offer me. so you embrace democracy, warts and all, or it is you who have issues, not the world you live in
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I lol'ed at the activist's quote. Come on. The Cuban government provokes negative reactions? How about the agent giving away cellphones and laptop not doing that in a sensitive time of negotiations between the countries? Plus with the intention of making people tell the world about what's going on inside Cuba.
How about just staying quiet and doing that after the countries settled their differences? Better yet, as a public demonstration of support to the country, donating in the name of the government.
so what?
can you offer me a better system?
so work within the framework of democracy to improve it. but unless you have a system of government which offers less of the imperfections you describe, you have to accept the warts and work to improve them, rather than complain about the system as it is, since there is no superior system in existence
we are imperfect. therefore, the government composed of us is imperfect. it is still superior to a government composed of a class of people who assume themselves better than us, even if some of those people who think like that are in our government in a democracy
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Oh, shocking ! Someone working for an hostile foreign power to undermine the authority of local government is arrested !
Since when can't spies and traitors work unchecked ? It must be a dictature !
Imagine 5 minutes someone paid by Cuban or North Korean or Iranian government (which are definitely very different from each other, but all considered "ennemies" by USA) to oppose the US government ! Sure, he would have no problems.
I just remind you that 5 cubans were sentenced to very long (including several live penalties) jail sentence for daring to... oppose the Miami-based terror networks. But USA, which sentence to life sentence someone opposing terrorism, is "land of the free" and the Cuba, who arrest people paid by an hostile government (blockading them, sponsoring terror attacks against them, ...) is the dictatorship.
Double standard, anyone ?
that's about the voting system, not political parties
in fact, the most ideal situation would be two parties using a borda or approval only voting system (a range of candidates can exist under the umbrella of one party)
third parties just represent the loss of an election for whichever main political party is closest to them ideologically
in countries with a whole universe of parties, you don't get a superior system, you get chaos and coalition governments where out of pure greed for power, politicians get in bed with ideological opponents, thereby compromising their values far more than anything that exists in a two party system
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
study mexico or japan: one part dominance has fallen apart into a healthy two party system in recent years
sure some countries are firmly held under one party dominance: but thats simply because those parties exert methods of control which artificially extend their dominance beyond the people's expression of their will. if a one party system does not submit itself to a fair contest of ideas with other parties, it is not a one party system, it is an authoritarian system that controls via coercion and force
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
....How everything on Slashdot eventually devolves into "BUT U.S. SUCKS MORE!!!!"
Regards;
as if nothing happens behind closed doors in coalition governments and nothing happens in the open in two party systems
as for multiple parties, if a third party latches onto a winning ideological formula to gain traction against the top two entrenched parties, then the major party closest ideologically to that third party has a choice:
1. coopt that third party's message as its own, therefore rendering the existence of the third party as pointless
2. don't change your message, and dry up and die and be replaced, like the whigs
either way, its two parties all over again
two parties is simply the fate of all democracies. its actually superior and inevitable in all democracies. heck: study mexico and japan: two party systems evolve even from one party dominant systems (that are open and submit to a fair and open contest of ideas rather than brute force)
it just happens evolutionarily: consolidation of smaller parties, and coopting of the messages of third and fourth and fifth parties that resist consolidation, until all that is left is the choice between two competing main messages on issues important to voters. since there is always an alternative choice on complex issues that is worth consideration to someone, two parties represents a stable balance. add a third party, and the two choices above play out. take away a second party, and the disparate voices of resistance congeal again into a valid second party again (in governments that play fair)
a two party system is simply the inevitable evolutionary result of politics playing out in democracies. why resist the inevitable, especially since it is superior on a number of measurements to the mess of many parties?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It's definitely Taiwan.
I think Mr. SEE left the name of the other island nation out of his post on purpose in order to force the reader to do some actual deductive reasoning, you know... thinking... It actually works if you try it.
and there's only a top few major parties in france, germany and australia
its not as different as you suggest
because what you are trying to propose is purely ideological plays in the existence and foundation of third parties. and it simply never plays out like that
in places like canada, something like the bloc quebecois represents an ethnic and geographic and linguistic allegiance, not an ideological alternative (of course its different ideologically, my point is simply that the source of the party's existence is not a pure ideological play). if quebec split off from canada, you'd have the political landscape of canada naturally reassert itself as purely conservatives and liberals
and so if you are intellectually honest on the matter i think you will find the source of the continued existence of so-called third and fourth "major" parties in european countries is due to the same sort of social stratification and entrenched old world classism that results in something like the bloc quebecois: voting blocks composed of constituencies that are not purely ideological in alternative composition to the main parties. and so such european parties are not a valid argument for the existence of a third or fourth party in a country like the usa whose political party landscape is purely ideological in nature (almost purely, purely antyhign is impossible)
the usa is not as socially stratified as old world countries. it used to be democratic southeast dominant, but this geographic dominance has evaporated as much of the south has now embraced the party of lincoln, simply because that party has evolved to be more conservative, and therefore more representative of much southeastern thinking
and so now the composition of the american political landscape is more purely ideological, the usa more homogenous geogrpahically in terms of rich versus poor, ethnic this and that, and it is linguistically homogenous. as opposed to europe, where some very ancient ethnicities and languages and classist nonsense still exists within a nations boundaries. this provides the basis for third and fourth parties along nonideological grounds
since the usa has less entrenched european social stratification and wild geographic differences in ethnicity and language, it is therefore more further along on the natural evolution of politics playing out in democracies towarda natural balance of two party systems
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
i'm just describing natural tendencies
what confuses me is why some americans believe salvation from whatever political woes they despise somehow magically lies in 3rd and 4th parties
when no matter what bothers you about two parties will most definitely NOT go away with more parties
pick your favorite multiparty country. examine issue {X} that you despise about american politics. you're going to tell me issue {X} does not go on in your multiparty utopia too?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Ooooh! The US vs. the Socialized planet!
Only the US will stand alone (or perhaps in a wheelchair) against the godless socialist hordes!
And the socialist hordes seem to be just about EVERYONE except Saudi Arabia, Honduras, Krazistan and the good ol' Red White an' Blue!
This looks like a job for TEAM AMERICA! (And the Dallas Cowboys - well at least, the white ones)
Let's NUKE 'Em, Big John!
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Yeah, Cuba is better than the countless "democratic", capitalist third-world nations where free trade reigns. What was your point again?
There... fixed that for ya...
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to install a new "democratic" leader (paid for by the USA)?
(sigh) once again: There- fixed that for ya.
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If he was handing out phones and netbooks to young men at a mosque. Never mind if they were too poor to afford these things, or too retarded to set them up for themselves. He would get investigated as would the young men and if they couldn't be found committing a real crime, the investigation could go on forever. And they could be held and made miserable until they confess. Sometimes the "good guys" behave like the "bad guys", when it is in the "National Interest". After writing that, I feel a little paranoid, like I should post anonymously, but I won't. If I get in trouble, you guys help me out. ;-)
Nice to see that so many see amerika for what it really is...war mongering mass murderers whose hubris and ignorance is beyond belief. Do what we say...not what we do...how dare anyone criticize amerika...land of the slaves...home of the cowards!