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Cuba Jails US Worker Handing Out Laptops, Cellphones
eldavojohn writes "An American citizen working as a contractor for the United States Agency for International Development has been arrested for giving away laptops and cellphones in Cuba. The intent was to enable activists to connect with each other and spread information of what's happening inside Cuba. From the article: 'Cellphones and laptops are legal in Cuba, though they are new and coveted commodities in a country where the average worker's wage is $15 a month. The Cuban government granted ordinary citizens the right to buy cellphones just last year; they are used mostly for texting, because a 15-minute phone conversation would eat up a day's wages.' A Representative on the House Foreign Affairs Committee said the arrest was 'no surprise' while a human rights watch group cited a report outlining the Cuban Criminal Code offense of 'dangerousness,' which is most likely the one for which this individual was detained. There is at present no way to contact the individual nor official word on why he was detained." The article quotes an actvist with Human Rights Watch who said that "any solution to the contractor's case would probably be political" and that "the Cuban government often provokes a negative reaction in the United States just as [the two] countries begin to move toward more dialogue."
Michael Moore told us Cuba should be a model for the US. I guess he meant "free" health care comes at the cost of only having $15 dollars in your paycheck at the end of the day.
There is at present no way to contact the individual nor official word on why he was detained.
He should have kept one of the phones or laptops for himself.
Oops.
This highlights exactly why the US embargo fails. Had it been lifted many years ago, perhaps Cubans would have already overthrown their dictatorship and established a free way of life. But instead the US insists on keeping a broken embargo in place that, if removed long ago, could have paved the way for Cubans to own cell phones and laptops long before this.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
You are forgetting - they had a revolution for the PEOPLE. All the poor people in Cuba benefited. It's a fine thing that Jimmy Carter went to visit there too (without the permission of the US government?)
Chi Chi! Get the yayo!
Free laptops and cellphones huh? Any malware/spyware installed on those?
I wouldn't trust it unless I could wipe it.
"Revolution for the people" is irrelevant. Single party systems inevitably lead to human rights abuse.
The message that such concentrated power is for the benefit of "the people" is pure propaganda.
"Raul Castro's government has relied in particular on a provision of the Cuban Criminal Code that allows the state to imprison individuals before they have committed a crime, on the suspicion that they might commit and offense in the future. This "dangerousness" provision is overtly political, defining "dangerousness" as any behavior that contradicts socialist norms. The most Orwellian of Cuba's laws, it captures the essence of the Cuban government's repressive mindset, which views anyone who acts out of step with the government as a potential thread, and thus worthy of punishment."
Reading this, it's no wonder to me that I walked out on the movie Minority Report about 10 minutes in, because it's exactly like that. My sympathies to the poor bastard and his family, they'll probably never see him alive ever again.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Seems to me he was, so he's either playing dumb, or actually dumb.
People that don't want to get bitten don't go around pulling cat's tails.
Sent from my PDP-11
The government of Cuba is evil.
In other news, water is wet and fire is hot.
...to keep its nose of other people's business. The US government's "freedom" fighters can't wait to destroy Cuba. What right does the US have to be there trying to create chaos?
Who is this Karma guy and why is he bad ??
So here he was, an American in a foreign country who was providing material means for people to rebel, overthrow, dissent, terrorise their legal government. One does wonder what would happen if an Iranian or Iraqi came into America and provided material means for people to rebel, overthrow, dissent terrorise the American government? Maybe a book on how to achieve things? Would said Iranian or Iraqi have been imprisoned under American laws? Maybe even sent to a place where torture was the norm like Guantanamo or one of the secret CIA prison camps on European soil?
Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina
Well, we do business with China and Saudi Arabia. Just Saying....
You don't have to like the laws of other nations, but when within their borders you have to follow them or face the consequences.
When visiting the U.S. would I not be expected to follow U.S. laws. If I have a problem with this my choices are not to go to the U.S.
If you went and did the same thing in Australia you'd be charged as well, granted you'd only get a fine and not jail time the only difference is that we'd charge you under our tax and import laws (nice and civil like). The person in question went there with the express purpose of undermining the government, whether you agree with it or not it is illegal, not to mention ill thought out given the relative ease this person was caught.
Now if handing out technology to a developing nation's people was this persons goal there are many better, legal methods of doing it. There are literally dozens of charities dedicated to this goal.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
"Animals?" Come on now, if Taliban agents were caught handing out darknet cellphones and laptops through a mosque in NYC, you just know the same thing would happen. Heck, we recently arrested some midde-east looking people just for taking home videos at Disneyland.
Without those cell phones and laptops (paid for by the USA), how are people meant to use their training in democracy and civil society (paid for by the USA) to organize spontaneous demonstrations and peaceful non-violent provocations (paid for by the USA) to install a new democratic leader (paid for by the USA)?
It is instructive to note how many useful idiots keep calling to normalize relations with the sort of barbarians that lock people up for passing out cell phones.
Normalize travel and trade with these animals? Really?
Seriously, would YOU travel into such a hellhole? Do business as usual with such a morally bankrupt regime and expect them to honor contracts like civilized people?
Yes, really. Why? Because you nominally care about the vast majority of normal people who live there. You may disagree with the ruling class, but that doesn't necessarily justify an embargo.
Also, let's keep in mind that these people locked up someone who was effectively an agitator. Or is sedition only bad when it's being done against the US standards? The Cubans locked up a man who was disruptive to their country's stability, like it or not. And again, if the embargo wasn't in place, the sheer contact between the normal citizens of each culture would have done a lot to educate both sides. People learn from contact. Leaving a country in isolation does nothing for them.
Depose or do not depose. Those are the two reasonable courses of action. The embargo at this point is nothing but pride.
"Oh no... he found the
Well, we do business with China and Saudi Arabia. Just Saying....
Well the US has to do trade with China - especially given how much US debt they own. <conspiracy>And as for the Saudi's its just another regime to get in bed with in order smooth over US interests in the ME</conspiracy>
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
> Well, we do business with China and Saudi Arabia. Just Saying....
Yea. Which is why I'd like to see us get off the imported oil habit to the point we could tell the House of Saud to pound sand.
And some of us objected to MFN status for China based on their horrid human rights record. Too bad the 'progressives' formed an unholy alliance with the big transnational corporate interests on that issue.... But no we probably can't just treat China as the total pariah they would be in a more perfect world. People who say size doesn't matter are just deluding themselves.
Democrat delenda est
In ANY democratic country an agent of a foreign power financing political groups would be declared persona non grata and kicked out. Apparently Cuba can't do it because then they are dangerous communists that eat children for breakfast.
Remove the absurd and illegal embargo you have on Cuba and then let's all talk about democracy. No country can be democratic with another country's boot crushing it. And we're talking about the USA, it's a HUUUUGE motherfucking boot.
As opposed to barbarians who lock up and torture people in Guantanamo and CIA prisons for years without trial for doing the same thing in other countries? mhmm.
Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina
Theirs is not the only system that needs replacing/overhaul. Dual party systems also lead to human rights abuse.
The message that a two party system is a "democracy" (or "republic" if you want to ride the irrelevant semantics bandwagon) is pure propaganda.
Mod me down but while I think Cubans should be able to access the internet and communicate freely I think they should be left alone to work out their own problems. Cuba has been under attack (sanctions etc) for a very long time and you have to bear in mind the US relationship with central and south America hasn't exactly been hmmm how shall we say very fair. The US has been happy to triain death squads at the school of americas http://www.soaw.org/ and fund the over throw of democractically ellected goverments (Chile, Nicuragua, Guatmala most recenly the atempt in Venuzuela and not to mention Syrian and Iran) so you could see the leader ship in Cuba might be a little paranoid.
We have a similar catch-all equivalent, called "causing a public disturbance".
People in this country were arrested and detained for the possession of cell phones during the previous two administrations. (Bush , Clinton)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Dissent/Crackdown_Dissent.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/aug2000/phil-a08.shtml
Yeah, it's not like the US imprisons people for years without charge ignoring their human rights under the Geneva convention for political reasons (in Cuba no less).
He's not only an agitator, he's an employee of a known CIA front company, Development Alternatives Inc, which worked in Venezuela on the failed coup. Last year Congress designated $40 million to "promote transition to democracy", i.e. provoke dissension, and DAI was the prime recipient of that money. Afraid that I can't feel very sorry for someone who knowingly attempts to rile people up so that they can get shot down in front of cameras.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Not just hot, VERY hot!
http://CryoLANparty.com/ A lan I'm staff on!
A lot of Canadian companies do business with Cuba and seem to be quite successful. As for morally bankrupt, seems tons of western corporations have no problems exploiting third world civilians for cheap labor. China anyone?
If you don't start somewhere you'll never get to see what changes you could bring.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
An American citizen working as a contractor for the United States Agency for International Development has been arrested for giving away laptops and cellphones in Cuba. The intent was to enable activists to connect with each other and spread information of what's happening inside Cuba
What I see here is clumsily staged bit of agitprop worthy of Bush and Cheney - and very high risk for any Cuban activist foolish enough to become involved.
In ANY democratic country an agent of a foreign power financing political groups would be declared persona non grata and kicked out.
Ah yes. In that case, it should be no problem for you to point to a case where an individual was jailed in, say, the United States, for handing out free stuff to political groups.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Oh, and while you're trying to think of a way to back-pedal out of this one, you should probably stop and think about just how despicable you look to every person who actually gives a damn about human rights. You're offering excuses on behalf of an oppressive dictatorship, just so you can squeeze in a cheap shot at nations which guarantee you freedoms that Cubans can only dream about. I don't know how you live with yourself.
When visiting the U.S. would I not be expected to follow U.S. laws.
Of course, you neatly skip over the laws that are so hard to follow between the two countries - in the U.S. for example, we frown on you killing people and so on.
All this guy did was hand out cell phones and laptops. That the people he was handing them to could buy if they could afford them. So they could communicate.
Now why exactly is the U.S. the monster in this scenario again? If you came to the U.S. handing out laptops and cellphones, I am pretty sure you would not be jailed. Unless you tried to give out RAZR phones, in which case you might well be shot but then of course you'd deserve it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Nice unsubstantiated attack there... Clinton, who signed the MFN with China is no progressive (he's a corporate-backed Dem, just like his wife). I didn't see many progressives saying MFN with China was good, if you have evidence, I'd like to see it.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
I wonder when is the US going to do anything serious about the democracy deterioration in latin america.
The list of countries where democracy is falling apart is growing year by year. First it was only Cuba, but then Venezuela's Chavez joined the club. Chavez is so determined in exporting his ideology that he has successfully used the country's wealth to build alliances and undermine democracy in Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and in less measure Argentina, and now he is trying really hard in Honduras, Peru and Colombia.
Jeez, the Cubans are getting lax. Hard to find good, old fashioned totalitarians these days.
What the heck are you talking about? Michael Moore says Cuba is a sterling example of how we should be.
Brett
Well, what did that person do from the perspective of the Cuban government? He was supporting people and organisations that tried to undermine and destabilize the government.
The US ship people that try the same to theirs to Cuba too...
Before you say that's something different, he's not a terrorist, he's just trying to bring these people freedom: He tried to give these people the means to achive a system he deems superior and more desirable. It is the same.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Or some other high-profile douchebag who can get them out scott-free.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Reverse it. Suppose foreigners had come here and started handing out goods we labeled contraband but were perfectly legal in their respective countries. We would likely react accordingly and arrest (or at least detain and deport) them. How about we change our attitudes regarding other nations to something like this: mind our own damn business. Thank you for reading.
Ask and you will receive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism#Laws_and_arrests
Now how are You going to back-pedal out of this one?
I have one question. If the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture is not in charge of Gundam, then who is?
I wonder how somebody doing the same kind of thing would have been treated in Chile under Pinochet, or one of the other countries where the US has installed its own bloody-handed dictators. Actually, I don't wonder at all. At least in Cuba the guy has a chance of getting out alive. If Pinochet or one of the other US puppets got hold of him, he'd already be missing some body parts and rotting in a shallow grave somewhere.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I really don't know why Michael Moore got so much credit over Cuba's free health care system; their country is falling apart structually, industry is failing and their economic ways have even taken to capitalist style when he had to stick his foot in his mouth over the farming incident when socialism collapsed on their dream world.
Oh wait, it's Americas fault for the embargo and a man who stayed in power for 30+ years and than hands it off to his brother. As bad as it was with the Mafia running things in little Havana, living standards and economy was better than. Mafia did a better job than the 'Castro empire'.
If getting locked up for trying to show people the 'truth' and not a filtered censored version is a crime, than these people should be rewarded the humanitarian award.
The weak spineless cowards around here will claim that the same sentence would be handed to them if they tried that in America, except the argument doesn't work because it is really fundamental human rights at work. So I don't know why some around here try to justify it.
Were the people criminals who hide Anne Frank?
I think you're missing the point. It's about laptops per se - it's encouraging dissent.
And what is YOUR point. Here in the U.S. we encourage freedom of speech. Even people giving death threats against sitting presidents (on either side) are at worst questioned - if they are even talked to at all!
Are you saying he was advocating violent overthrow of the sitting Cuban government, and providing arms? Now THAT might get you put in the hoosegow here. But AFIAK, we was handing out laptops! And cell phones! I don't think he was even advising them to drop them from a great height onto the heads of government officials, just to talk to other people or post thoughts on the internet... which you can do in the U.S. (even about Nazis, unlike Europe).
How you can equate Cuba to the U.S., it is totally unfathomable and frankly I think calls for a complete and total re-evaluation of any worldview that leads to that conclusion so readily in this case.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You're aware that only 8.5% of US oil imports come from Saudi Arabia, right?
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm
60% of U.S. oil imports are from non-OPEC nations; OPEC nations. The single largest supplier, by volume, is Canada, followed by Mexico.
Of the OPEC nations, the biggest supplier is currently Venezuela, though they were edged out by Saudi Arabia for a couple months this year (last April and July).
Basically, if it was about the oil, we could tell them to pound sand today; we simply aren't getting that much oil from them. What the U.S. gets of of the relationship is a more or less stable Middle East.
-- Terry
Yeah, scroll up and this time actually read what I wrote, ok? Then try to draft a response which addresses it. Thanks!
Treating people like 'animals' sure helps them develop. Point out the vast benefits that have come from not trading with them? ... More of the people starve or live in horrible situations, and have far less access to information. Sounds great.
Kim? That you? Thought you have no internet in North Korea?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Seriously, would YOU travel into such a hellhole?"
Hell yes, it's a stunningly beautiful country with great food, gorgeous women, wonderful climate, great music, and friendly people. It's also extremely safe, the crime rate is next to nothing, and very cheap. That's why tens of thousands of Europeans travel there every year. Wish I could go without being labeled a criminal by my government.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
What you see on T.V. may, at times, be the truth. What you see on T.V. is never the whole truth. The way Cuba is treating this man is exactly the way the U.S. treats people they deem potentially dangerous to the status quo, you just don't see it on T.V. In fact, the U.S. does far worse than unlawful imprisonment without due process.
Dunno, did they catch any of the supporters of the 9/11 attacks?
Before you reply, the intent in both cases is the same: Damaging a government considered hostile and opening the door for one that's deemed favorable.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
In ANY democratic country an agent of a foreign power financing political groups would be declared persona non grata and kicked out.
Ah yes. In that case, it should be no problem for you to point to a case where an individual was jailed in, say, the United States, for handing out free stuff to political groups.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Please read this.
Some parts are very interesting:
This law defines the agent of a foreign principal as someone who:
(. . .)
Although the act was designed to broadly apply to any foreign agent (and was first used against German Nazi and Soviet propagandists), in practice FARA is frequently used to target countries out of favor with an administration (such as Venezuela or Iraq during the George W. Bush administration).
Oh, and while you're trying to think of a way to back-pedal out of this one, you should probably stop and think about just how despicable you look to every person who actually gives a damn about human rights. You're offering excuses on behalf of an oppressive dictatorship, just so you can squeeze in a cheap shot at nations which guarantee you freedoms that Cubans can only dream about. I don't know how you live with yourself.
Yeah, when the richest super power on Earth illegally embargoes and violently harasses a small, poor country of 11 million for decades those people that give a damn about human rights rejoice. But that's not news, you did it to many small poor countries before, this one is still resisting, that's all. You come talk about human WHAT??? If Castro sucked the American cock, even if he had babies for breakfast, you would love him, like many other oppressive dictators.
Trying to bring people freedom my ass. When did the CIA ever 'bring people freedom'? If the communists were thrown out "our" government would make sure to institute a regime that would make people long for the 'good old days of Fidel'. You need look no further than their neighbors Haiti and Honduras (and almost in Venezuela) to see what happens when popular, freely-elected governments attempt to work for the betterment of their populace; the Pentagram makes sure its lackeys kidnap them in their pajamas and dump them in some other country.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Man I wish I had mod points for you.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can compare the actions of two countries so out of context.
Countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc torture people all the time. It is so pervasive that it just accepted there as the way it is. Now these countries do get some flak for it, but honestly not much.
Now the US tortured (and yes it was torture) 3-4 guys 8 years ago and people act like it proves the US is on the same level as the worst of the worst.
There is a big difference between common accepted practice and a panicked mistake. But I guess some people just aren't willing to acknowledge the difference.
Democracy vs. Republic is not an irrelevant semantics bandwagon. While dictatorships reinforce the rights of a small minority against the majority, pure democracy leads to the majority oppressing the minority. This is why a republic is necessary to protect the rights of the minority as well.
--- You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad- Neal (not Cowboy) Boortz
1. You've presented an act which requires foreign agents to identify themselves. If that's the best you've got, you're better off admitting defeat.
2. I'd oppose Castro as I oppose all dictators, regardless of US foreign policy. Just because you base your allegiances solely on your foolish political leanings, don't make the mistake of thinking that the rest of us are equally immoral.
And after all that, you managed to miss the part where all that the law actually requires is that someone doing any of those things above register himself with the Feds.
No, it doesn't provide for jailing people (even the guy working for Saddam on the Oil For Food thing was only fined).
And note this:
yah, real close parallel....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Representative democracy (what Americans usually actually mean when they talk about "democracy vs republic") does not guarantee protection for the rights of the minority. There are various examples of that in history, but the most famous one is Weimar Republic, and the state into which it ultimately transformed. Another very famous example is historical USA (remember, it was a republic while slavery was legal, and later on when Jim Crow laws were in force).
The Cuban government granted ordinary citizens the right to buy cellphones just last year; they are used mostly for texting, because a 15-minute phone conversation would eat up a day's wages.
Ironically, in order to get the same information as a 15 minute phone conversation takes 2 hours when texting, and eats up 3 days wages.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
In ANY democratic country an agent of a foreign power financing political groups would be declared persona non grata and kicked out.
Depending on their visa, kicking out is a possibility (albeit a very remote one; I can certainly remember cases of denying a visa, but I can't think of any when person was granted a visa, and then had it terminated early for political reasons). Jailing, though, is an entirely different matter.
Yeah, Cuba would never spend half a century trying to overthrow governments all over the world that didn't accomodate its economic interests, and have a global terrorist organisation as a legitimate part of its government.
Wow, do you have to work hard to stay so ignorant of what is really happening? The US has tortured several THOUSAND people, both at Guantanamo and Baghram as well as at the illegal Black Sites in other countries, dozens of whom have died under that treatment. We send tens of thousands to be tortured **FOR** us to other countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Uzbekistan (where boiling people to death is still practiced). This is not hush-hush stuff, it's widely reported even by Faux News and the Washington Post, and a number of congresscritters openly applaud it from the floor of the Congress. How is it that you are under the impression that there were "3-4 guys 8 years ago"?
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Why don't you scroll up to your own post and actually read what you yourself quoted in your post. Then try to draft a response that refutes the link that I provided.
I can add more links to the House Un-American Activities Committee, the hollywood blacklist and the Japanese internment camps if you like. That's just a small listing.
I have one question. If the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture is not in charge of Gundam, then who is?
In the U.S., you can't be charged with a conspiracy to overthrow government willy-nilly. Just because you do something, and declare that your ultimate reason for doing so is "overthrowing the government", doesn't make it sufficient. Case in point: if you print a bunch of Marxist propaganda leaflets explaining Marx economic theories of exploitation, and hand them out to people on the streets, you won't be jailed, even if you walk down to the nearest police station and tell a cop that your leaflets are intended to bring closer the revolution.
Now, if your leaflets contain explicit calls for violent uprising, then you may be charged. But this isn't what happened in this case. Furthermore, a country may well be within its rights to forbid distribution of certain items that it seems as harmful on its territory, and may equate a crime of distributing those to incitement of riot. For example, in North Korea, it is, apparently, illegal to own, assemble, or provide anyone with a radio that is not locked into the government frequency. We may argue whether such laws are good or bad, but the point is that they are laws, written on the books - you know that you're not supposed to do that, or else you face penalties. In a similar vein, Soviet Union had a written law for "anti-Soviet propaganda", and that's what you'd be charged with if you smuggled Solzhenitsyn into the USSR.
In this case, however, the guy apparently didn't broke any written law: he merely distributed laptops and cellphones, which are legal to both possess and to transfer to another person. I'm sure Cuba has some of its own "anti-communist propaganda" laws, but so long as he didn't provide any materials that could be considered that preinstalled on those laptops/cellphones, it shouldn't be applicable to him, either.
So the fundamental problem, as I see here, is that Cuba didn't consistently apply rule of law in this case. It's one thing if a state has oppressive laws on the books (U.S. itself still has plenty, and just a few years ago had absolutely barbarous stuff such as anti-sodomy laws); I can still familiarize myself with the laws of that particular state before coming there, and know what I can and what I cannot do (or decide that I cannot abide by those laws, and therefore not come there in the first place). It's much worse when there are things that aren't codified in laws, but doing which can still lead to legal prosecution and harsh penalties, with no way to find out in advance as to what they may be.
If you can't see the difference between planning and executing a plan to kill people, and giving people communication devices so they can know the truth, you are hopeless.
Come on guys, a few stories ago people were saying that internet access is a basic human right. Maybe that's taking it a little far, but I think we can all agree that freedom of speech is a basic human right.
Also, if and when this sort of thing happens in the US, we do condemn it. Even if it only takes a milder form, like a DMCA takedown notice. No one is arrested there, but we all know what kind of chilling effect that has. How much more of a chilling effect will it have when people are actually arrested?
Qxe4
Is that the definition of republic that is taught in America? I have seen it here quite often but only from Americans - others cast it in terms of monarchy vs. republic (which is certainly the historical meaning). I am quite interested to find out where it comes from.
Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
Normalize travel and trade with these animals? Really?
Oh yes. Because this is the Land of the Free, and therefore your citizens have no business going to all those un-Free countries, and should be severely punished for daring to do so, or - God forbid - trying to buy anything from those animals. After all, they're already Free, and they live in the most Free place on Earth; clearly, if they travel to that evil un-Free country, they mock the very idea of Freedom. Right?
1. You've presented an act which requires foreign agents to identify themselves. If that's the best you've got, you're better off admitting defeat.
It also says it opens the door to arbitrariness, and it was used in that way by the USA and all the others. Cuba shouldn't be bashed for using the same.
2. I'd oppose Castro as I oppose all dictators, regardless of US foreign policy. Just because you base your allegiances solely on your foolish political leanings, don't make the mistake of thinking that the rest of us are equally immoral.
I never said I support Castro. And you don't know my "foolish" political leanings. What I think is that it's highly hypocritical for you Americans to criticise the Cuban dictatorship when you've ever been all hugs and kisses with the most vicious dictators that make Castro look like a saint. Not mentioning it was you who put them in power, in many cases.
"I don't know how you live with yourself." I don't know about the other guy but breathing works fine for me. Human rights is an excuse for the U.S. to force its will on other countries and point out that they are better than them. Freedom of religion, speech and such are all agreements and inventions of the human mind made by the writers of our law to gain our support and nothing more, there is no more a right to free speech than there is an Apollo to raise the sun every morning.
every anarchist is a baffled dictator. Benito_Mussolini
I've got to say, if the only way you can justify the Cuban government's actions is by referring to McCarthyism, then you've lost.
Qxe4
If you can't see the difference between planning and executing a plan to kill people, and giving people communication devices so they can know the truth, you are hopeless.
If the DAi is a front company for the CIA, as has been announced, then I'd imagine they were doing this for more reasons than spreading the truth. If anything they would be building a list of disaffected citizens to use later. It seems pretty obvious we don't have all the facts, as they say, truth is a three edged sword.
While you're joking, IIRC, Kim actually does have an Internet connection; and he's pretty much the only person in the country who does (there's also an an Internet cafe for foreign tourists).
the reason for this is they live in democracy: their government is composed of people of their choosing. this means the american government is a legitimate representation of the will of the american people. so there's nothing to rebel against, because who is in the white house is who the american people want to have in the white house
meanwhile, in nondemocracies like cuba, north korea, china, and iran, the people are not consulted as to the composition of their government. so there is the agenda of the ruling class, and the agenda of the common man, and these are two different agendas. therefore the government has to oppress the people, because it fears the people will rebel
that's some intellectual charity for you. try to understand the fucking obvious next time. because currently, your inability to see obvious huge crimes by truly horrendous oppressive criminal regimes because you are so obsessed with prosecuting the usa's crimes only makes you look like you have some tribal hard on for the usa, and that you don't actually fight for anything like principals or a sense of justice in this world. we're glad you have a burning vendetta against the usa. who the fuck cares. when you are so blinded by your rage against the usa that you are ready to embrace far worse evil in this world, that just makes you pathetic and useless to whatever you think you are fighting for
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I would like to see some more details on this, could you please provide some links to reputable news sources?
Your world must be a horrid place. I truly do pity you. Were I of a similar mindset, I would have offed myself years ago. Death would be far preferable to life in a self-imposed prison where morality is nonexistent and all human values are utterly meaningless.
It really illustrates how easy it is to believe anything about your enemies once you regard them as "morally bankrupt animals."
Doesn't anyone here find it mildly ironic that a nation that monitors all of thier citizens data behind closed doors is sending computers to help another county overcome the exact same burden?
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
That single party system is the problem we have in America as well.
Hypocrisy doesn't make it any less wrong, or give him less of a right to criticize it.
Text messaging is much cheaper outside of the US, even in western Europe. We're getting the short end of the stick on this one :(
Yeah, I have to admit that's what I thought. when I read There is at present no way to contact the individual nor official word on why he was detained. Pretty much like a foreigner accused of "terrorism" in the US, then.
And for all the folks shouting up the way about the vacuity of moral equivalence arguments: the United States is holding innocent people today on such charges, and has been for years. The people responsible for that are evil, just as the people responsible for arresting this guy in Cuba are evil.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
"It also says it opens the door to arbitrariness, and it was used in that way by the USA and all the others. Cuba shouldn't be bashed for using the same."
So please, if it's such a perfect example of the US doing the same thing, point to the cases where people were arrested for it rather than simply required to identify themselves. Go on.
There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
And link 4 for the conclusion... "A Moroccan immigrant who was held for three years before his terrorism-related conviction was thrown out has filed a $9 million federal lawsuit against the prosecutor and two other figures in the case."
yes yeah yeah.
What with all the embargo shit going on, cuba doesn't have a big chance to improve the economy much, do they now? Suddenly the US comes in and hands out stuff for free to only those people who are in opposition of the government.
Yes ok, so they have (or had) laws against owning a cell phone, maybe there's a good reason for that in their current situation.
I'm most definitely not a communist, but if you think cuba is the bad guy here you most certainly are deluded.
Really? According to Duverger, majoritarian systems will always lead to 2-party systems, and Downs has shown that, in majoritarian systems, the 2 parties inevitably gravitate towards the center of the political spectrum in terms of ideology. G. Bingham Powell shows that majoritarian systems have greater levels of accountability, because in the lack of coalition governments it is easy to identify who made what decisions. He also shows that majoritarian systems are more representative of the values of the median voter. And, as long as the state utilizing the 2-party system has universal suffrage (as the US does), and has a large number of government positions that are open to competition (again, as the US has), then it in fact IS a democracy (or to use the technical term developed by Dahl, a polyarchy). Sure, you may sound all hip, cool, and so "against the system" by saying that 2-parties systems as democracy is "propaganda", but when you are put up against scholars who have studied and written on this subject for decades, your assertion falls completely apart. The sad part is that it was modded +5 Insightful when everything about your response was completely wrong.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Or maybe the Castro brothers were just pissed at AT&T's poor 3G coverage outside of Havana.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
You are either displaying very subtle sarcastic humor or a MASSIVE amount of IGNORANCE here. Being /., I'm betting on the latter but apologize if it is the former.
Cuba provided "advisors", training, arms and money for thirty-plus years to SEVERAL communist revolutionary groups around the world, in such places as Angola, Bolivia, Congo, Nicaragua and Grenada just to name a few. These actions were a legitimate part of their government. Does Che Guevara not ring a bell?
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
"Animals?" Come on now, if Taliban agents were caught handing out darknet cellphones and laptops through a mosque in NYC, you just know the same thing would happen. Heck, we recently arrested some midde-east looking people just for taking home videos at Disneyland.
I love how things are distorted to serve an agenda. People are dehumanized by referring to them as "animals". And situations are distorted by describing them in the most innocent terms ("taking home videos at Disneyland" - the defendants were being prosecuted for a collection of material to include the aforementioned video of Disneyland) and presented as "recent" when they actually occurred over 8 years ago.
From the Founding Fathers mostly, whether apocryphal or not. "Democracy as two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner" and other such things. Democracy as the majority taking their fill from the rights of the minority. Democracy as Ochlocracy. In a republic, some things (see "Inalienable rights") can be above governmental power (in theory at least), whereas in a democracy everyone's rights are bestowed by the will of the majority and can be revoked the same way.
Also, I remember reading something about the government at least up through FDR publishing material distinguishing democracy and republics. I got a remnant of this when I was in grade school. I don't know if it has any place in any curriculum any longer.
"There is at present no way to contact the individual"
Well he should have thought of that before handing out all those phones for free!
Single party systems inevitably lead to human rights abuse.
As an American, I can say that two party systems are constantly vying for a close second.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
If you go openly and give in a non-democratic country laptop and cell phone with the explicit intent to possibly undermine the local government ("The intent was to enable activists to connect with each other and spread information of what's happening inside Cuba"), then when that said government jail you for "sedition" or whatever, you get what was coming to you. Their intent is laudable, but get real, what sort of reaction would you expect from a non-democratic government ? A smile and a tap on the shoulder ? Yeah, right.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
A quick google reveals:
http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml
"The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly. It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit, receive or accept contributions or donations from them. Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to fines and/or imprisonment."
Imagine how your government would react if it finds that a foreign nation (eg China) has been funding the opposition party.
I think Cuba's reaction is quite normal. Cuba does have human rights violations, but I'm not sure if this is one of them.
You break all the laws of physics and you seriously think there wouldn't be a price?
so only soldiers are humans?
in contrast, in america one needs nothing to be jailed, http://it.slashdot.org/story/07/09/21/1849208/MIT-Student-Arrested-For-Wearing-Tech-Art-Shirt-At-Airport
Or like....well right now, with gays not having equal rights and all.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Funny. When you'd ask in my country what's a more important human right, free speech or free health care, you'd probably get very different answers than in the US.
I think the only thing we can all agree on is that people have different priorities and values in different countries.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I work for a major NGO that is heavily involved in USAID contracting. Until recently, it was my job to manage US export compliance for all technical hardware leaving the US. While we did not work in Cuba, we worked heavily in other countries sanctioned by US. There are two things about this story that don't add up. 1) The US heavily controls the export of technical equipment such as laptops and cell phones, so much that individual licenses must be granted to each item, and each item must be accounted for every single year. There is an entire office established just to control these items, called the Bureau of Industry and Security (http://www.bis.doc.gov/). Failure to comply with such regulations results in massive fines (in the millions of dollars) for the contracting agency, and even imprisonment for the guilty individuals. The theory is: technical equipment could be use for "Anti-American activities" if given to the wrong parties, and under NO circumstances are agencies allowed to freely hand out computers or other similar things. 2) I don't see anything in this article talking about repercussions from the US government. For this person to just freely hand out goods means he had special permission that is very rarely granted to any USAID partners (or any other American for that matter). It sounds like this person/agency was directly involved in activities that go well beyond USAID's mandate, and was a thinly veiled political maneuver. I don't think the Cuban government was targeting this person just because he was handing out computers, I think he was being targeted because he was supporting a subversive political tactic from a hostile party. Not that anyone didn't already suspect this, but just stating the obvious....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
Discuss.
America, land of the free. As long as you agree with the party-line. As ex-soviet reporters have commented, the differences between the soviet union and the US are not all that big. Tell me, do they still have camps for the homeless in the US? Food stamps? Waiting in line for the food kitchen?
The US has created a very smart system, it is similar to what religious groups use. Sure you can criticize, HERETIC! Just see what happens if you dare to protest against copyright... how many hundreds of millions are you fined with? No, it is not the same as being tortured and shipped to some re-education center. It is far better. People are willing to die for freedom, spend the rest of their life in poverty, not so much.
You can see the true freedom in the US with cases such as the Dixie Chicks. Freedom should be MORE then just being able to say what everyone else says. What westerners often get wrong about dictatorships like Cube, Russia, Soviet Union (Russia today is not free), China etc is that they are NOT what you see in McGuyver episodes. There isn't a commisar on every corner, not everything is monitored and controlled. Rather, they use the fear of being noticed when you dare to stand out to stop you from standing out. And they "use" a few who are allowed to stand out but are slapped down from time to time to remind everyone what happens.
Same as western society when you dare question things. Copyright, mod-chips, they might seem like minor issues but it is what the powers that be care about in the west, and if you question them, you are slapped down. For that matter, what have all dictarorships got in common? Repression of the rights of homo-sexuals (true communism would give full rights to everyone). What western country is most repressive of gay-rights? Thank you.
Be very careful about thinking you are free just because they allow you to certain freedoms. A free-range chicken still gets eaten.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
True democratic systems with proportional vote do not lead to 2 party systems.
Things like first-past-the-post, electoral circles and other such shenanigans are what leads to 2 party systems.
One could almost think that some point in the past the dominant parties of the time got together and "tweaked" democracy to make sure they always won ....
Text messaging is much cheaper outside of the US, even in western Europe. We're getting the short end of the stick on this one :(
Indeed, there are a lot of "free texts to 1 network", or even "free texts to all networks" price plans.
"the average worker's wage is $15 a month" - No it isn't. Cuba does not use the dollar.
This is the usual bullshit propaganda from the kind of people that want you to believe that third-world workers on two dollars a day can't afford to eat. They arrive at this rubbish by pricing first-world food at first-world prices (herb ciabatta from a New York delicatessen at $4 a loaf, instead of flat bread baked by the family where the ingredients are grown by the local farmers and sold at market for less than quarter of a day's wages).
The developing world does not price its goods in dollars, nor do they shop at the deli counter. Get over it.
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
it was a mistake
now would you like to criticize the cuban government for being assholes at some point? or do you wish to do nothing but continually retry old grievances from a dead era?
at some point you are going to have to pick a side in struggles actually going on today
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
just as soon as they give the cuban PEOPLE a voice in their own affairs
i respect democracies. i have no respect for regimes where a ruling class rules over the common man. simply because that regime has an agenda all of its own, and therefore does not respect the common man. only a democracy manufactures the legitimacy that a citizen of that country can respect, and therefore only a democracy is legitimate in my eyes as well, out of respect for the PEOPLE of that country on my part
concern for my fellow man does not abide petty things like tribal boundaries. i am not an american. i am a human being. this means i care about how other human beings are treated in this world. this allegiance is greater than my allegiance to any country. this allegiance gives me the moral right to oppose regimes that do not respect their own people they do not consider to have a right to their own voice in their own government
this is the only valid point of view for those of us who wish to be morally and logically coherent on questions of principles in this world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
nah, it's not that bad and seems to work well for a lot of people ;-)
``If a program can't rewrite its own code, what good is it?'' - Mel
And sometimes they don't kick them out because they were never there. They bring them there to be punished for something that wasn't even a crime where they were.
there is no class of people who decides who runs the place except for the common man. of course there is influence like money and celebrity which warps the process, but i would like you to create for me a democracy where celebrity and money do not warp the process. no democracy is perfect: it is made of imperfect men, therefore it is inescapably imperfect. that you point out to me that the democracy i live is imperfect is an observation of no value: its obvious to everyone, you are not telling us anything we do not already know, and already accept as unfortunate but unavoidable. we strive to improve it. what else can you do? no democracy will ever be perfect. and yet it is certainly better than any other kind of government you can offer me. so you embrace democracy, warts and all, or it is you who have issues, not the world you live in
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Yet it has been shown that preferential voting with multi-party system results in most optimal outcomes for constituents: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/06/0649217
so what?
can you offer me a better system?
so work within the framework of democracy to improve it. but unless you have a system of government which offers less of the imperfections you describe, you have to accept the warts and work to improve them, rather than complain about the system as it is, since there is no superior system in existence
we are imperfect. therefore, the government composed of us is imperfect. it is still superior to a government composed of a class of people who assume themselves better than us, even if some of those people who think like that are in our government in a democracy
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Cuba is free to trade with the rest of the world. If you blame the US' unilateral embargo for the failure of the "revolution", then I think it's you who are deluded.
Have you heard about the Cuban Five? They infiltrated a Miami-based terror network, and instead of going the Mossad way of killing them, or the CIA way of abducting them, they actually handed over the information to American authorities.
Instead of arresting international terrorist Luis Posada Carriles, the FBI arrested the agents who had done the work for them. The five were then convicted to ludicrous prison terms in a trial in Miami, while Posada Carriles is still a free man.
Ok, in this case it was not "handing out free stuff to political groups", it was more like "handing out critical security information to the host government".
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
Oh, shocking ! Someone working for an hostile foreign power to undermine the authority of local government is arrested !
Since when can't spies and traitors work unchecked ? It must be a dictature !
Imagine 5 minutes someone paid by Cuban or North Korean or Iranian government (which are definitely very different from each other, but all considered "ennemies" by USA) to oppose the US government ! Sure, he would have no problems.
I just remind you that 5 cubans were sentenced to very long (including several live penalties) jail sentence for daring to... oppose the Miami-based terror networks. But USA, which sentence to life sentence someone opposing terrorism, is "land of the free" and the Cuba, who arrest people paid by an hostile government (blockading them, sponsoring terror attacks against them, ...) is the dictatorship.
Double standard, anyone ?
That is not entirely accurate. From wiki ...
.
I believe it's you who is deluded. The US has placed very large restrictions on how Cuba can trade with the rest of the world, much to the detriment of the Cuban people. They really can't conduct fair and open trade with the rest of the world -- in Cuba, this embargo is thought or more as a blockade, since it effectively has the same result. It means they can't import a lot of goods, so the average Cuban goes without unless tourists bring it down and give it to them.
Oh, that and the fact that at one time America imposed an amendment to the Cuban constitution which gives the American government some control over Cuba that Cubans don't want and which violates their sovereignty.
Maybe you should learn a little more about Cuba instead of just spouting what you've heard and don't understand.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
that's about the voting system, not political parties
in fact, the most ideal situation would be two parties using a borda or approval only voting system (a range of candidates can exist under the umbrella of one party)
third parties just represent the loss of an election for whichever main political party is closest to them ideologically
in countries with a whole universe of parties, you don't get a superior system, you get chaos and coalition governments where out of pure greed for power, politicians get in bed with ideological opponents, thereby compromising their values far more than anything that exists in a two party system
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
study mexico or japan: one part dominance has fallen apart into a healthy two party system in recent years
sure some countries are firmly held under one party dominance: but thats simply because those parties exert methods of control which artificially extend their dominance beyond the people's expression of their will. if a one party system does not submit itself to a fair contest of ideas with other parties, it is not a one party system, it is an authoritarian system that controls via coercion and force
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
....How everything on Slashdot eventually devolves into "BUT U.S. SUCKS MORE!!!!"
Regards;
The Word "Republic" Originated with Socrates and the Republic States of Ancient Greece. Read the Treatise by Socrates' on Republics. Interesting and one of the basis the Crafters of the United States Constitution used. Another is the Ramayana, which is one of the Great Religious Documents of the World and is the basis of the "Purusit of Happiness" clause in the Constitution. There are many other Supposedly Great works involved in the crafting of the American Constitution and one book that is a "MUST READ" for all American's and anyone interested in American History are the "Federalist Papers", which are a collection of Papers written before the Revoltion. I'll have to review my copy to remind me who that author/s were but it's a damn good read and should be readlily available from any bookstore since it's that important a collection of writings. History Section where you'll find it. Government and Politics might be another section.
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
as if nothing happens behind closed doors in coalition governments and nothing happens in the open in two party systems
as for multiple parties, if a third party latches onto a winning ideological formula to gain traction against the top two entrenched parties, then the major party closest ideologically to that third party has a choice:
1. coopt that third party's message as its own, therefore rendering the existence of the third party as pointless
2. don't change your message, and dry up and die and be replaced, like the whigs
either way, its two parties all over again
two parties is simply the fate of all democracies. its actually superior and inevitable in all democracies. heck: study mexico and japan: two party systems evolve even from one party dominant systems (that are open and submit to a fair and open contest of ideas rather than brute force)
it just happens evolutionarily: consolidation of smaller parties, and coopting of the messages of third and fourth and fifth parties that resist consolidation, until all that is left is the choice between two competing main messages on issues important to voters. since there is always an alternative choice on complex issues that is worth consideration to someone, two parties represents a stable balance. add a third party, and the two choices above play out. take away a second party, and the disparate voices of resistance congeal again into a valid second party again (in governments that play fair)
a two party system is simply the inevitable evolutionary result of politics playing out in democracies. why resist the inevitable, especially since it is superior on a number of measurements to the mess of many parties?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
That is not entirely accurate. From wiki ...
I believe it's you who is deluded. The US has placed very large restrictions on how Cuba can trade with the rest of the world, much to the detriment of the Cuban people. They really can't conduct fair and open trade with the rest of the world -- in Cuba, this embargo is thought or more as a blockade, since it effectively has the same result. It means they can't import a lot of goods, so the average Cuban goes without unless tourists bring it down and give it to them.
Nothing which you just quoted says that Cuba is not free to trade with the rest of the world. It only says that companies that do business with Cuba can not do business with the United States. There is nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of companies in the world that do not do business with the United States, and there is nothing stopping someone from creating shell companies or a reseller company so that Cuba could import goods from companies that did deal with the United States. All the US did was draw a line in the sand and tell people that they had to stand on one side of the line.
The rest of the world has pretty much been telling the US to fuck itself with a pineapple over Helms-Burton. It certainly hasn't affected Cuba's trade with the rest of Latin America, especially Venezuela.
Cuba's failure is a result of the fundamental failure of one-party government and a planned economy. If the embargo ended today, nothing would change in Cuba. Citizens would still be on rationed food and power, no freedom of movement, and with prohibitively expensive (if any) access to telecommunications. Why? Because the aim of every "revolution" of the last 100 years has been "revolution". The goal of the struggle is to struggle. If you don't keep your people under the illusion of a permanent state of siege, they might just realize they have options.
Perhaps they were Sony laptops and the intention was that they'd eventually end up in the hands of Senor Castro (senior or junior). It's probably the only assassination method the CIA haven't tried yet.
At the bottom of the
and there's only a top few major parties in france, germany and australia
its not as different as you suggest
because what you are trying to propose is purely ideological plays in the existence and foundation of third parties. and it simply never plays out like that
in places like canada, something like the bloc quebecois represents an ethnic and geographic and linguistic allegiance, not an ideological alternative (of course its different ideologically, my point is simply that the source of the party's existence is not a pure ideological play). if quebec split off from canada, you'd have the political landscape of canada naturally reassert itself as purely conservatives and liberals
and so if you are intellectually honest on the matter i think you will find the source of the continued existence of so-called third and fourth "major" parties in european countries is due to the same sort of social stratification and entrenched old world classism that results in something like the bloc quebecois: voting blocks composed of constituencies that are not purely ideological in alternative composition to the main parties. and so such european parties are not a valid argument for the existence of a third or fourth party in a country like the usa whose political party landscape is purely ideological in nature (almost purely, purely antyhign is impossible)
the usa is not as socially stratified as old world countries. it used to be democratic southeast dominant, but this geographic dominance has evaporated as much of the south has now embraced the party of lincoln, simply because that party has evolved to be more conservative, and therefore more representative of much southeastern thinking
and so now the composition of the american political landscape is more purely ideological, the usa more homogenous geogrpahically in terms of rich versus poor, ethnic this and that, and it is linguistically homogenous. as opposed to europe, where some very ancient ethnicities and languages and classist nonsense still exists within a nations boundaries. this provides the basis for third and fourth parties along nonideological grounds
since the usa has less entrenched european social stratification and wild geographic differences in ethnicity and language, it is therefore more further along on the natural evolution of politics playing out in democracies towarda natural balance of two party systems
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Normalize travel and trade with these animals? Really?
The reality is it's either us or Hugo Chavez. Do you really want him 90 miles off Miami?
I was against MFN for China at the time, but it does appear that the free-marketeers were right - China is far more free today than in the mid 90's, and capitalism appears to be responsible.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
And you are a twat.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Because there are no human rights abuses in USA ? Or in Europe ? Or in the capitalist countries in Latin America ?
The country in which union leaders and journalists are killed isn't Cuba, it's capitalist Colombia. The country where hundred of indigenous people are slaughtered for daring to protest is not Cuba, but capitalist Peru. The country holding captive people, torturing them, with no trial is not Cuba, but capitalist USA on illegally occupied Guatanamo Bay. The country that drops tear gas from helicopters on peaceful protesters is not Cuba, but capitalist France.
What Cuban got from the Revolution is lack of unemployment, lack of homelessness, totally free healthcare and education. What they got from it is a life expectancy higher than the US, the lowest child death rate of the all Americas, and being the first Latin American country recognized "free of illiteracy" by UNESCO.
So yes, it is for the people. It's not perfect - but remember Cuba is a blockaded island facing the hostility of the world sole superpower. But compared to the rest of Latin America, it's undoubtly much better. And even compared with our "rich" countries, there are things which much better (and other which are less good, too, yes).
Why would you say it is a prison? I go by "what goes around generally comes back around" as my moral compass and realize that every other moral code in history has changed because it supported racism, slavery, genocide and etc. While yes some of it supported "good deed" how do you define "good" and if it is all relative then it is nothing personal against me.
every anarchist is a baffled dictator. Benito_Mussolini
i'm just describing natural tendencies
what confuses me is why some americans believe salvation from whatever political woes they despise somehow magically lies in 3rd and 4th parties
when no matter what bothers you about two parties will most definitely NOT go away with more parties
pick your favorite multiparty country. examine issue {X} that you despise about american politics. you're going to tell me issue {X} does not go on in your multiparty utopia too?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Ooooh! The US vs. the Socialized planet!
Only the US will stand alone (or perhaps in a wheelchair) against the godless socialist hordes!
And the socialist hordes seem to be just about EVERYONE except Saudi Arabia, Honduras, Krazistan and the good ol' Red White an' Blue!
This looks like a job for TEAM AMERICA! (And the Dallas Cowboys - well at least, the white ones)
Let's NUKE 'Em, Big John!
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Extracting sunbeams from
Yeah, Cuba is better than the countless "democratic", capitalist third-world nations where free trade reigns. What was your point again?
There... fixed that for ya...
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Extracting sunbeams from
to install a new "democratic" leader (paid for by the USA)?
(sigh) once again: There- fixed that for ya.
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Extracting sunbeams from
It is very true that the idea of a two-party system being by definition "democratic" to be propaganda. Many countries do indeed have two or three mainstream parties that are more or less identical to one another. Sure, they curse and criticise each other, but ultimately a regime change is usually little more than a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". Parties offering genuine alternatives are often pushed to the fringes of politics and branded "radical" or "extremist" (for the record, I'd like to mention that there are truly radical parties that would be dangerous - Nazism and extremer forms of communism are, in my eyes, dangerous).
The fact of the matter is that most capitalist countries, including America, UK, France, Germany etc. do not truly have the government at the reins. Governments allow themselves to be controlled (or in some cases, even have direct influence over them) by major economic entities. Effectively, the market "governs", with the government existing to merely fulfil the wishes of the market.
Nice to see that so many see amerika for what it really is...war mongering mass murderers whose hubris and ignorance is beyond belief. Do what we say...not what we do...how dare anyone criticize amerika...land of the slaves...home of the cowards!