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Here We Go Again — Video Standards War 2010
Andy Updegrove writes "Think of the words 'standards war,' and if you're of a certain age you're likely to think of the battle between the Betamax and VHS video tape formats. Fast forward, and you'll recall we just finished another video standards war between most of the same companies, this time between HD DVD and Blu-ray. Well, here we go again, except this time its the movie studios that are duking it out, and DRM issues are a big part of it. On the one side are five of the six major studios, dozens of cable, hardware, software, distribution and device vendors, and on the other side there's just Disney — and maybe Apple as well, and that's enough to have the other side worried."
downloading...
How is this going to affect torrents except now we'll have to wait for one of two useless DRM schemes to be stripped away?
[T]his time its the movie studios that are duking it out, and DRM issues is a big part of it.
I tend to prefer those video standards which are inclusive and unencumbered such as xvid and x264. They've survived. Our library, some of which is many years old, still plays.
No central server to authorize and track our viewing habits. No chance of having my devices' keys revoked. No need to keep all our gear connected to the net.
.
Trolling is a art,
Disney always tries their own thing... (and fails)
Its like when they tried to add crap to DVDs so that would stop working after a limited number of plays.
I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
"Whoever wins, we lose."
What side is the pr0n industry on?
Were either Betamax or VHS a standard? When I saw "standards wars", I thought of ODF vs OOXML.
As with the Betamax/VHS formats, Circuit City's DivX and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, the ace up the sleeve is that people always have the choice not to buy. If people don't want a format or technology, nothing the studios or content providers do will get them what they want (our money). They never seem to factor that in to their plans.
The more resources they waste on such posturing instead of modifying their obsolete rules of operation, the more they will have to squeeze consumers to remain afloat; also laws lobbied being more ridiculous. The more attractive alternatives will become.
Makes the probability of Big Media bubble bursting slightly more likely...
One that hath name thou can not otter
Another "slave to the server" DRM scheme. Those have a finite lifetime.
What's the longest-lived "slaved to a server" DRM scheme? Has any such scheme been working for ten years? iTunes may be the oldest, but they didn't support video until 2005, and they've been moving away from DRM on audio.
Think of what al-Queda could do with the signing key for Windows Update.
They've got some cheek, acting like letting us view the same content on multiple devices is an amazing new revolution. We could do that before DRM, and it would've been easy for them to manage DRM such that people could grab more authorised, licenced copies in different formats. That's the whole point of having a licence instead of a physical product.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
The only good news here is that is actually possible for both of them to lose ... if consumers don't buy into either scheme.
Intellectual property, with its artificial scarcity, seems like an indicator of an immature civilization. Perhaps the singularity will happen before it gets sorted out.
True standards will only be set by the end users. If nobody buys it, is it a standard?
If there are 1000 Xvid copies around for every BD copy sold... which one is the standard?
In the face of this reality, the industry has come up with a pretty practical solution: pay once for a video, and the seller will track your ownership for you, and make that information available to anyone who hosts the same content anywhere.
If you RTFA, the two "sides" in that article are really on the same side, that is, the side of removing the consumers' rights for the content the consumers purchase.
Why does DRM even matter? Whatever they come up with will be cracked in less than a week.
If you're in a hotel, say, and want to watch a video you've already purchased, the video service provider for that hotel can just check your record to see if you've already purchased it, instantaneously and invisibly.
cue hotel ads tailored to a trolling of my entire purchase history. uh, no thanx.
Could have used a better example in the first block...
http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/01/05/1331208/DVD-CSSs-Encryption-Not-Enough-Here-Comes-DECE
KeyChest isn't really DRM, it's a central repository for purchase information of DRMed files.
The idea is that companies opt into it, and then every device knows what you own. So when you go download Finding Nemo off iTunes, you can suddenly watch it on your cable box from the cable company, because they are both members of KeyChest and both know that you have a license to that media.
Basically, it solves the "tied to one format" problem. Each file still needs a "real" DRM format, the KeyChest just serves as a central clearing house of what licenses you have.
This would fix one of the MAJOR problems with DRM. It's still DRM, but it would be better than what we have now.
There was a short article on this somewhere (Gizmodo, Engadget, Ars Technica, somewhere) last week. I can't find it right now.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I really don't understand this obsession with "rights management". The bottom line is that "free" media will always be easier and more convenient to work with than "restricted" media. Also, media will always be made available via "alternative" methods; in the worst case scenario the analog hole will always exist. The world would be a better place if these people could just realize these facts. Instead of wasting time, money, and resources on all of this "rights management" cruft in a vain effort to get more people to pony up, they should look at offering additional services specifically targeted at those people. Maybe they won't make as much money, but some money is better than no money. As time has proven again and again, these restrictions only inconvenience legitimate customers. You can't please everybody, so infringement will always occur; my feeling is that you have to do the best you can to reach everybody, and after that infringement is just part of the cost of doing business.
Toshiba's HD DVD format obviously didn't win, but then it doesn't really seem like Sony's Blu-Ray did either. Plain old DVD still seems to be kicking Blu-Ray's ass, the DVDs on store shelves dominate the pathetic space where you can find overpriced Blu-Ray disks, Netflix is still geared toward DVD, etc. Nobody that cares even the slightest bit about DRM goes anywhere near Blu-Ray. So what's the deal? Is DVD going to to disappear or will Blu-Ray be like an ostracized guy in a suit at a rave indefinitely?
Look, what happened between Betamax and VHS is well know, Sony were full of themselves with their better format, and didn't want to license it to anyone whereas VHS was licensed to anyone that wanted to build that platform.
But since then it's been easier to figure out which format will win. It's not which is technically better for consumers (ie. less / no DRM), but which company has the biggest pocket to give the biggest backhanders. Follow the money.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
Update the troll, dude. Geocities is dead, man.
They keep talking about how "helpful" their new DRM will be, how it'll be ubiquitous, etc.
Format wars are never helpful. What happened to people who bought $600 HD-DVD players, and multiple HD-DVDs? Do they keep their obsolete player next to their blu-ray so they can watch 8 movies? Do they throw away the whole investment and get new blu-ray ones?
I stayed out of that format war until it was 'won.' I may have an eyepatch that helped me with that. And I think I'll be staying out of THIS one permanently, especially since it's against the oh-so-broken copyright law (unless there's some way to promise that content will always be activate-able for infinity, which there isn't.)
With the multiyear HD DVD Blu-ray battle still a recent memory, we have a new standards face off in video, just as we do in eBooks, and just as it looks like we may in on-line print, where a new consortium led by the News Corporation and others is launching a standards-based "digital newsstand." All of these devices, of course, are targeted at you and I, and each has the potential to not only extend the woes of the music/video/print vendors behind these standards battles, but to waste your money and mine as well.
Does that strike you as a shame?
Hell no. The last thing we need is easy to use, standardized DRM. Apple derailed Microsoft's attempt to make Plays for Sure the boot stamping in the face of the music lover, forever, by making sure NOBODY won the music DRM wars. It looks like they're up to their loveable tricks again, and I salute them for it. A fragmented, hard to use, unreliable DRM ecosystem is to the consumer's benefit in the long term.
The difference between this format war and the last one is that Blu Ray, while picking up speed - is not quite at the same point DVD's were when Blu Ray/HD DVD were introduced. Albeit, everyone still had a VCR and their VHSs. And people still DO have their VCR and VHSs. However now most movie collections consist of DVD's, unless you just started your movie collection a few years ago.
Some people don't even have a Blu Ray Player - let alone a sizable Blu Ray collection.
So what happens when this new form of content hosting becomes available? Do people with Blu Rays and their players get left out in the cold? Did the straglers manage to skip a step?
All I'm saying is - we're JUST NOW getting Blu Ray to really take off, I find it very unlikely that enough people are going to want to adopt a new format so soon.
And there are alot of issues since both of these would require an internet connection to fully function. The internet may now become a common household item - but not everyone's is fast enough for you to download an HD Movie by the time the popcorn is ready - I see Blu Ray still holding some advantages over content hosting.
The TFA talks about the war between Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem (DECE) from 6 of the big movie studios versus Keychest from Disney. But the important this is that Keychest is not DRM . As the name implies its a Key management service, proposed by Disney. It needs DRM such as DECE or Apple's Protected AAC stuff to work. The TFA's author doesnt seem to grasp the basic difference.
Legally obligatory sig : My opinions are my own... etc etc
i thought i read something this weekend on engadget that Disney is joining DECE and calling it Keychest or something like that
Apple, everyone knows they live in their own world
Just lower your prices, it's really that simple. A movie should cost from $1-5. The whole industry needs to take a massive pay cut as well. If they don't I will continue to take what I want for free. So will many others.
Ok, I read TFE, and it seems to me that for consumers (which is what I personally am concerned about) there's a clear choice -- buy content (if reasonably priced) from Warner Brothers, Paramount, NBC Universal, Sony and Fox, and torrent content from Disney. What standards war?
Of course, if both solutions are confining and/or expensive, neither will be adopted en-masse. For the first time, consumers have a third choice -- free -- and to compete with that, content providers will have to provide something that benefits consumers instead of annoying them. I wonder if the content providers get this yet.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Good. Let a war wage on the DRM battlefield. Any war over DRM is good for users, eventually. In time, companies will start to realize they're dumping millions and millions into a system that might not be an industry standard and, in the end, never, ever, ever works. At some point, someone within those companies will catch a hint and realize it's an utter waste of resources. The more battles that are waged by media companies over DRM, the more likely that lightbulb moment will happen sooner rather than later.
Technically, Steve Jobs is the largest single shareholder of Disney. His shares come to about 7% of Disney. He is also a shareholder in Apple but I'm not sure what about how many shares he has.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
All the major media companies except Disney and Apple are supporting a media-purchase-validation system that won't work unless your purchase is DRM'd. Disney and Apple are proposing one that works equally well with un-DRM'd media.
Jobs is at it again.
As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
and when one of these falls through and needs to shut down its servers, then what happens to all of the movies that I just purchased?
As EA games has proven by turning off the Madden 09 servers, a big company can just up and decide to shut off certain servers.
The world is how you make it
i peaked at 250 some DVDs before selling off my collection almost 10 years ago. got to the point where i would watch a lot of the movies only once or twice a year at most.
today with my 10 mbps cable internet ( i run speed tests and my cheapo time warner cable ranges 8 - 15 mbps depending on the time and day) and my 32GB iphone and laptops with 320GB hard drives i want to watch it anywhere and don't want to carry anything around and don't want to pay for things to own i may only watch or listen to once a year. i'd rather pay $20 a month and watch and listen to whatever i want when i want and where i want
So you are saying it will play for sure.
I really don't mind paying for my movies, tv shows and music. I do regret that such a big part goes to the studio vs musicians but that's the way it is in every industry.
What I do mind is not being able to use what I have as I should.
I want to be able to move recorded shows from my PVR to my laptop/ipod/psp/whatever
I want to par a reasonable price for rent vs buy and cheaper for the electronic compressed version. Why would I pay 20$ for a compressed movie when I can get a DVD for often half that price and the DVD will be easy to rip to PSP so my kid can watch it in the car?
Do you mean like AVI vs MKV?
Or XviD vs x264?
Cause the latter ones are clearly winning. ^^
Sometimes I feel like I’m on a different planet than those media companies... And theirs is just about to go down in flames. ;)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I bought the clone wars season 1 set last week. Price was the same for DVD or blu-ray and I do have a blu-ray player in the PS3. I still ended up getting the DVD because I want to be able to move them to the PSP so my kid can watch them in the car.
My wife and I quit playing their DRM "game" some time ago. We'll buy (non-DRM'd) CDs all the while they continue to exist - similarly with paper books. We don't buy DVDs, Blu Rays or anything else essentially un-copyable legally. In fact, we don't own a TV. We're not going near eBooks after the Amazon "1984" debacle (apology not accepted - it shows what they can and are willing to do with their DRM).
We do not choose to feed the DRM beast. While passive entertainment can be nice, it is very far from essential. We don't need any of their video product. Indeed, we don't need to listen to their music product. One can learn to play an instrument and be better for it. I'm trying to learn some piano. I'm not good, but it is a lot of fun.
With the books, it is a more serious matter. Many are essential for expansion of knowledge and capability. So unless we can buy any particular book in paper or unrestricted electronic form, we're not going near it.
As an aside, it's amusing to watch the reactions when people learn that we neither own nor watch TV. Incredulity and blank stares greet us. Some question what we do with our time (how sad is that?). Others start justifying their habits by saying that they only watch the Discovery channel (or some such), or they need TV to keep the kids quiet (sad again).
We find that it's much more entertaining to do, rather than to watch. There's so much interesting in the real world. It seems to us now that it's a shame not to engage in it - first hand.
Oh, no privacy issues here, nosirree.
Private companies (and government agencies) already have way too much private information on way too many people, IMHO.
I wish them all good luck in completely destroying their business. Hats off to them!
Which side has MPEGLA trying to make money on? whichever side that is bet against it
-I.E., DVD/BluRay discs, any DRM is useless and will be subverted.
Encode the bits all the way to the monitor/TV display. It makes no difference. Someone, somewhere will figure out how to convince the data stream that it's driving an encryption compliant display, while in actuality, that now unencrypted data stream is being written to a hard drive as an H.264 video/audio file.
Even if eventually, everything comes from the cloud, the Chinese will be happy to sell you a greymarket flatscreen TV/Monitor with all the audio/video out ports you could ever want on the back of the display. All ready to plug into your computer.
Until then, ffmpeg and Handbrake/MacTheRipper are your archiving friends.
As for torrents, I look at the Internet as my own personal Digital Video Recorder that automatically edits out the commercials.
Oh, and lastly, I buy almost all my DVDs used. No point in paying the studios/networks/production companies that DRM their products.
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
So I was at toys r us and wanted to get toy story 2(pixar/disney) and was surprised that it was not there since they had a pretty amazing selection of movies for kids. The employee told me they actually never had it and expect it may come out as a boxed set with #3 eventually. Until then I simply CANNOT buy it.
Did a little research and it was on amazon but the price is completely unrelated to other movies that are that old. Torrents are looking really tempting now.
I can't wait for this. When I buy a bluray film I will then be able to download the film to my iPhone and my netbook. Well, I will if iTunes and whoever also stock the film. And, of course the downloads may well be heavily censored versions of the film because you can't expect them to stock everything. Oh, and there will be lots of targetted ads that i can't ffwd through pasted into the films. Oh, yeah, and the netbook will have to be trusted so cannot be using that evil linux operating system.
But that aside, yay, woo, I have my credit card ready.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
And all of this means that NOBODY will support it. There is no way that the cable company, or iTunes will show you a movie for free because you purchased a copy from Best Buy or something and registered the key when you brought it home.
Sorry about the title, but I get really frustrated when I hear about continued efforts to pursue DRM. I believe that producers of content should be able to protect their legal rights but DRM is simply flawed from the get-go. I know this has been said and re-said on /., but I'm going to point it out again: the one requirement for all DRM technology is that the legitimate buyer of the content must be able to watch/listen to/read it. The technology is irrelevant; if a buyer can view the content, it can be re-encoded.
So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
I am perfectly capable of managing my own digital rights. I don't need someone else's server to handle it, mine does so just fine. Keep sending out encryption of the same caliber as DVDs and I'll keep supporting your industry. If you treat me like I can't be trusted, I can, will and do act like it.
You _aren't_ going to get a key for "The White Album" you are going to get a key for "the 2011 release of 'The White Album" in MP3 format from Sony Interactive for use on sPlayer #xxxxxxx" simply because they _can_ be that specific and they _don't_ want to sell anything once that they can sell a million times.
DRM == RENT, and illegal prior restraint, and a scheme that can never actually work because it is a system that violates every principle of both software engineering and cryptography. No matter how you slice it, DRM is a stupid waste of leptons, time, and money. It is a system based on a complete lack of modularity and locality.
DRM is a classic case of "who will watch the watchers?" and not just at the corporate and financial and cultural levels. As a simple exercise in software engineering DRM must fail. It is a system that must be part of every element of a system (which is the failure of locality and modularity etc) to the degree that you need to have DRM policing the DRM system.
DRM is the Perpetual Motion of Software. People keep inventing new versions of it that don't quite work because no version of it can _ever_ deliver what is promised. Companies keep buying into the hype because they are blinded by "the potential". The only difference is that we are all being forced to buy these perpetual motion machines. Sure _this_ one has a battery in it, _that_ one has to be hooked up to the electrical mains. Some other one needs a waterwheel or a solar panel, and they will all tear off an arm or crush your child if you aren't careful... but we are _almost_ there... just one more scheme and we'll have it right...
The whole thing is a tax, levied by the stupid, paid by the sheep, and ready to break businesses when, I don't know, say Microsoft (or whomever) forgets to update a certificate (or whatever) before it expires (or whatever).
Where the heck do I find the Opt-Out?
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
Except it allows users to be charged multiple times for the same content. You buy the movie from one place. Then on every other device that you try to watch it on that does not have the downloaded file, they charge you a service fee to access your content and stream it to that device (XBox 360 with Netflix comes to mind).
The only way to distribute videos online is DRM free. Yes it will be pirated just like music, but most people will pay for their content and sales will skyrocket due to the new method of distribution. The people who don't want to pay for movies will crack the DRM and share it anyway. Studios will rake in the money due to minimal cost of hosting and no physical medium. This will also create new avenues for companies to host your purchases for streaming reasons, or preconfigured and expandable home servers with STBs that handle the download and storage of your movies. Seems a little like a no-brainer to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
This would fix one of the MAJOR problems with DRM. It's still DRM, but it would be better than what we have now.
CSS is DRM, but my DVDs will play no matter if I have an internet connection or not. If DVDs needed an internet connection, you wouldn't be able to watch them from a plane, train, or even a car most of the time. As it is you can take your laptop to the park and watch a movie sitting under a shade tree. With this stupid sceme you won't be able to.
Free Martian Whores!
Instead, what's involved are two different approaches intended to help content vendors somehow survive in the face of plummeting revenues
2010 was a record year at the box office and (I believe) the video store. Where's the damage that they are attempting to mitigate?
DRM just seems like a way to force me to rebuy what I already own 10 years from now.
Have we learned nothing from them? If this DRM plan goes through, the companies will obsolete media just as fast as the drug companies obsolete drugs that are about to lose their patent. (They remix the formula slightly, and take another patent out).
So basically, that copy of Blade Runner you bought 3 years ago? The Director's cut plus? Well, that was then, now we have a completely new product, Director's cut plus enhanced, with a never before seen napkin drawing of Roy Batty's potential haircuts that never made it into the movie. So yeah, we don't carry the old one any more, but if you want the plus enhanced, that'll be another $19.99 please.
Don't for a second think these a-holes are doing anything for YOU, the consumer. Just like the insurance industry doesn't give a shit about giving you actual medical care, these people don't care about giving you anything - it's all about their profits... perpetual and guaranteed.
"If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes..." - Roy Batty
I can't wait to register every device I own with one central authority.. Especially registering all the ones that connect to the internet!.. Bye bye freedom of speech, and anonymous cowards...
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That question suggests that they are somehow a unified, discreet group that can make that decision. I would be the first to admit I know next to nothing about political structures and groups in the pr0n industry, I don't get the impression that they are organized in that fashion.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
DRM systems will live in their own insular little worlds until they fail financially (e.g. DIVX disk and self-destructing DVDs). But for everything else, it's simply a matter of firmware. There was nothing a user could do to turn a Betamax deck into a VHS deck, but as long as the disks are still round and read by lasers, it's largely just a matter of firmware, which in many cases can be upgraded without much difficulty.
For the computer/HTPC/media player box, it's even simpler. Those boxes already include CODECs for dozens of different formats, and many of those boxes include near automatic firmware upgrades to permit installing more CODECs and capabilities continuously.
My dad got my kids some godawful movie about hamsters (G-Force, I believe its called)... It wasn't the kind of content I like my kids watching, but the intention is what counts.
Turns out that the box contains 3 discs: A DVD version (which I promptly copied and gave the copy to the kids for them to use*), a BluRay disc version and a "Digital Version" in a separate disc. "Three movies for the price of one!" the box advertises.
Apparently that third disc contains a digital copy of the same movie (dunno which format) that has to be activated from a server for it to play on a Windows computer. Seems that they don't want you to play regular DVDs in your computer anymore
-
* My kids are 5 and 3 years old, and they like to use their DVD themselves... that means scratched discs, so I have them use backups.
No sig for the moment.
Or even more annoying, what if the cable or your internet is out for an extended period of time. I would usually use that time to watch movies but if they have to authenticate or stream from a web service, I'm SOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Ogg is the only video standard we need. It's nice, it works and it's open. We might as well throw everything else out. Unless we come out with a better quality, smaller open codec. In which case we should use that. And scrap ogg. Come on, the media moves fast!
DRM is the software version of Perpetual Motion. It is simply not possible to make the device described work as intended. But because of "the enormous potential income" should someone succeed, the greedy interest keep flushing money into the pockets of charlatans and charging the populace a tax for their stupid avarice.
Since DRM can only work if all the parts of the system are controlled by external DRM, including all the DRM enforcement parts, you end up with "its elephants all the way down."
So we will never be done until it is simply illegal. Just like the patent office will not accept patent applications for perpetual motion machines, and the FDA will not let unproved drugs out into the wild (in theory anyway 8-), the FTC (etc) will eventually need to refuse to let people try to sell things with this snake oil in it.
But like those remedies and limits, it will take a couple hundred years of corpses and bankruptcies cause by the offensive practice of duping companies into "DRM" before anybody finally acts to stop the scam.
And even then, people will still try to sneak it in the back door as "holistic systems engineering" or whatever.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
The difference between this format war and the last one is that Blu Ray, while picking up speed - is not quite at the same point DVD's were when Blu Ray/HD DVD were introduced.
The real difference is that it's software, not hardware. There's nothing stopping you from installing both players on your PC, or Sony licensing both codecs and wrappers for their TVs. You don't HAVE to cook all your eggs in one pan.
The advantage to the "Tied to one format" problem is that, once I've purchased that one format, no one can take away my right to play it short of making the hardware completely unavailable or coming to my house and taking it by force. If PlaysForSure or Yahoo! Music or any one of the previous obsoleted central server DRM technologies have taught anyone a lesson, it should be this: THIS IS A REALLY BAD IDEA! At least it is for the purchasing consumer. For the seller, it's fantastic.
Within a month of release, KeyChest will be fundamentally cracked. Actually, I should say "before release", but I'm being generous. Someone will use a proxy server to simulate a positive response from a faked KeyChest server. After it's been cracked, the movie studios will move on to a "more secure" technology, and KeyChest will stop being used. And once they have your one-time payment to access "Finding Nemo", remind me again of what justifies their continued operation of the KeyChest server you now utterly depend on? Do you seriously believe that a company is going to respect your right to watch it across multiple platforms for any length of time after the scheme stops being used? When KeyKeeper comes out a year or a decade from now, KeyChest will declare bankruptcy and the server that approves your PLAY button for you will be sold for scrap.
Then you'll be left with a living room media player that's full of movies you can't play without buying them all over again. Oh, and did we mention that your old media player doesn't support KeyKeeper? That'll be $200 to buy the right to rebuy all of your movies, please.
Don't come crying to me, I won't be able to hear you. I'll probably have a ripped copy of one of my CDs from the 1980s playing really loud. They still work fine, you know. And I can loan them to friends, or sell them, or just give them to someone else. Legally.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
There's a pawn shop in my town that resurfaces DVDs for $5. It works on game disks -- my 5-year-old daughter wore out LEGO Star Wars.
For home viewing, it's usually just my good ol' upconverting DVR with a USB front port. (and HDMI out) It plays AVIs without issue and can copy videos directly onto the hard drive. For the high-res stuff, my wife's laptop has an HDMI port and the /video directory is shared on the network.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
What are you paying for then? "You can totally do non-DRM ebooks". Aye, text files. So why buy an ebook reader, some of which goes to the DRM licensing?
Who says I (or the OP) aren't interested? I AM interested, but not enough to put up with the bullshit. So I have no TV. If I can't rip the DVD I give it back and I can't FIND any CDs of stuff I'd like: they don't appear on the radio and I have to have Windows to get it off the internet (and get blocked for being a bandwidth thief if I use some streaming sites that use flash).
I bought the Star Trek Blu-Ray last month. It comes with a code that lets you download a "low-resolution" (slightly below DVD) version of the movie for viewing on your iPhone/computer/whatever. To the chagrin of anti-DRM activists, that works out pretty well for me.
E pluribus unum
What format is that low-res? If its something fairly generic that would play on windows/mac/linux/ipod/psp then it would be OK for me. Somehow I doubt it works on psp and probably not on a few future devices too.
I've got around 200 DVD's in my house. What a waste. 80% of them have been watched once or twice. I've recently purchased a Blu-Ray player to go with my new TV. I refuse to buy movies anymore. Its Netflix all the way for me now. And in 5 years, I hope to be able to stream movies in real-time once my FIOS is at 100Mbit download.
And if that fails, you can place a camcorder in front of the TV. I don't know why they waste so much money with these projects. They just need something that would be a hassle for regular users and give up the rest of the battle as not cost effective. It would be interesting to see their "piracy losses" compared to what what they spend on DRM schemes.
Anything works on PSP - just get the PSP9 software and anything gets converted into PSP-compatible format.
In a world where Droid claims to do, the PSP has been doing it since before the iPhone - minus touchscreen related stuff.
I've used my PSP as a server. And I know the Droid can't control my PS3 from the internet or even from my kitchen.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
the article is meaningless, there is no standards war. this is some kind of promotional article to make it seem like DRM is your friend and the benefits are great. the author clearly hasn't a clue. suggesting that apple is working on something called 'mobileme'
Can we toss in 3D standards at the same time and make a real mess of it?
That is all.
Exactly. After readying this I've been trying to figure out why one company would want to show me a movie for free that I bought from a different company.
This would fix one of the MAJOR problems with DRM.
I would stop short of saying that, and instead perhaps say that it attempts to address two of the MAJOR inherent problems with DRM. It may sound like quibbling, but I think it's an important dinstinction in that it doesn't fix the problem inherent in the system.
What I mean is that, on a conceptual level, all of these DRM schemes come down the the same thing: content owners introduce an arbitrary additional point of failure for when the user tries to access the content, set it to fail, and then they provide a system that enables the point of failure to be fixed under specific controlled circumstances. This raises two inherent problems:**
Essentially the DRM problem can never be "fixed" because these problems are inherent in the design. The only way to allow all legitimate uses to be allowed to is allow all uses, which means that you have no more DRM. And regarding the second point, you can't design a system that never breaks.
Now KeyChest seems to be an attempt to address these problems by making the system more robust and less likely to break, and also by providing a more flexible system that allows more usages within the system. However, it doesn't "fix" the problem. If the KeyChest system breaks, then it seems like you might still be denied access to the content you've purchased. Also, there will still be restrictions which may run afoul of legitimate uses.
**(I can think of at least two more inherent problem with these DRM schemes, which is that it raises privacy concerns and opens the door to abuses such as being denied access to content you have rightfully purchased, but I won't go into those here. There's also an inherent problem for the content owner, which is that you're trying to prevent access by encrypting while also providing the key to decryption, which is a solution likely to be hacked sooner or later if people are motivated to do so.)
It is impossible to get behind any DRM scheme while a full flat ban on decryption remain in effect. Works that have fallen in the public domain but wrapped in encryption need to have a provision in law before we can even begin to talk about universal DRM.
Good-bye
Erm, the third disc was digital? What were the first two, then? Or have we gone back to LPs?
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Although another shitty battle might be ahead of us, for the first time I feel like the industry is heading in the right direction.
It might actually give us the urge to purchase our movies and music!
I'm more curious on how this will work with concepts to FOSS OS's.
On the one side we have DECE which has Microsoft on it's side whom wouldn't mind all this new DRM being used because they won't need to port it over to Linux/BSD using the answer of 'the market isn't big enough' meaning 'Windows PC's will stay Windows PC's or lose all sorts of functionality of digital media'. While something like a DeCSS hack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS) could be used to overcome these problems, it wouldn't be legal in places like the US due to the DMCA and possibly most first world nations in the future with how the ACTA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement) is shaping up with it's global DMCA policies.
On the other side we had the Keychest which has Apple on it. And Apple has shown many times they don't like the idea of there stuff being used in ways they don't appove of. This is shown through concepts of iTunes only being available on Windows and their own OS X and not on Linux/BSD. While work arounds have been made they no longer work with the newer versions of IPod/iTouch due to the modifications made to the firmwares (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/14/1831236). Mac OS only being able to be installed on Mac hardware (while this was a more non-issue when they were using the PowerPC chipsets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerpc) which were different then normal PC's x86 architecture, the newer models all run Intel x86 chips makes this a more controlling issue then a lack of useablity. Things like the iPhone and iTouch needing to be jailbroken (no doubt will be covered and made illegal with ACTA) just to make/install programs you choose.
Way I'm seeing it, this is more likely going to be bad or worse for FOSS OS's with the only 2 major companys that will be effected not caring about that problem since it will only help kill the competition, leaving us back to MS or Apple. Or maybe Google but last I heard the Google Chrome OS is being made for Netbooks not full blown PCs
Unfortunately, I only made it halfway through the article before I had to stop due to an unmatched '(' this 'bugged' me to the point I just had to quit reading...
Sure there is, they merely work out agreements similar to what happens when you call out of network on a phone - there are agreements in place for Verizon to pay AT&T to complete calls to their network, etc. This model works for iTunes paying Comcast some fee to allow those who bought on iTunes to play it on others (similarly, Comcast would pay iTunes for the iTunes version to be included in Comcast's sale). This doesn't work when physical media is involved as the DVD seller would always be the primary originator, but you might be able to pay $15 for the DVD + Digital vs $10 each for plain DVD or plain Digital (if you own the DVD you are likely to use the Digital distribution less).
One issue with this is that in theory you could continuously stream "Finding Nemo" indefinitely at non-zero cost to the digital distributor, so you might have distributors charge a nominal annual fee or have to purchase X items per year like Kodak's photo site does.
and the interesting (ironic?) thing is that the kinds of people that actually WANT to do this type of video streaming are the exact type of people that WON'T put up with DRM. I want to watch the vid on multiple devices... so waht do i do? I could either RENT this license for some fee or rip and convert my product.
The problem with DRM is that the studios, syndicate and pipes got greedy. They tried to use DRM and the law to extend existing copyright rather than just enable existing protections.
You also (generally) can't buy a DVD on a plane, train or even a car most of the time, nor under that shaded tree in the park (unless there happens to be a kiosk there). You'd have to have bought that DVD previously and physically brought it along. The same would be the case here - you buy the digital copy, load it on the relevant device while you are somewhere with internet access and play it where you want. Transferring is slower than grabbing a DVD on the way out the door, but other than that I don't see a difference.
Yes they will...You just won't be buying from one entity anymore...
You'll be sending a cut to everyone with every purchase, even if you don't have multiple devices from multiple vendors.
Your cable company will show you that movie for free because you paid them $3 when you bought it for $65 at Best Buy (You also paid Sony, Disney, and whoever else wants in). Its not price fixing if everyone only sells the one product. Then it's just a monopoly with every company in for their chunk. If all the big kids play together then no one big enough to get lobbyists can go after them for cornering the industry.
Of course they still won't be able to plug what used to be called "the analog hole" since the community will build their own damn rippers/players from the chips up if they have to to avoid these schemes.
Pirates will pirate your warez no matter what you do to try to stop them. All these battles do is hurt the consumer by increasing the cost of media and hardware, and piss them off by making them jump through hoops just to watch some shitty movie. Only the lawyers win in the end.
I'll keep watching my old laserdisc collection until these clowns figure it all out.
It is nice to have ownership of my media and have full control over it for about $2.00 per title from Ebay.
haha!
Out of order? Fuck! Even in the future nothing works! - Dark Helmet (Rick Moranis) "Spaceballs"
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That sounds like a major pain in the ass. If I have to buy one of their players just to get the content into my player, and I also can only import the data in 1x realtime, then I'm not going to bother. I'll just let the pirates handle it, and download it from them.
For them to rely on people being able to put camcorders in front of TVs just to be able to get things to work, isn't viable. Nobody's going to put up with that shit.
They solved the DRM problem decades ago. Macrovision worked. DVD_CSS works.
They both stopped people from making casual copies.
I don't understand this drive for unbreakable DRM. It can't work. At some point you must possess both the lock and key in order to view the content.
You're never going to stop the motivated ones. Someone will always break the DRM. If for no other reason than to prove they can.
Both macrovision and DVD_CSS stop the casual copier and unless you tried to copy you didn't even know they were there. You still had your rights of first sale. You could play on any device. You could lend it out.
The only flaw they both have is the physical media requirement.
I find being offended by me offensive.
As it is you can take your laptop to the park and watch a movie sitting under a shade tree. With this stupid sceme you won't be able to.
That is not necessarily the case. It could allow your device to get a cryptographically signed certificate to say that you may play your content for X days / months / years on that particular device. Low-power RTCs can keep the time for years, and could require a challenge-respond handshake with the server after a battery change to get the time (set and) authenticated.
But all this does not solve the other failings of DRM, i.e. fascist control over decripted data, dependence on a vendor or central authority to shift to new devices, and inability to tinker with your
media player, e.g. if you want to change the colour palette, or the way the sound level is adjusted.
So, instead of a single, well documented, easy to break DRM scheme we have multiple obscure DRM schemes with less documentation then a Microsoft product.
A single DRM scheme means a single point of failure for all DRMed content which is a good thing(TM) as only one DRM scheme needs to be broken. Differing interests from all the vested parties means that it will never be perfectly secure as a giant tug of war happens between those interests that have different requirements. DRM schemes only need to be broken once, this is a lot faster with a single scheme then it is with multiple ones.
Apple is a significant shareholder in Disney, Disney is one of the, if not the biggest supporter of more restrictive DRM and perpetual copyright (it's called the Mickey Mouse protection act for a reason). Apple are the last people I'd trust to help in the fight against DRM.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
As long as we are stuck with the mechanics or hard disks, using them as "backup" is sheer lunacy.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
There is no way that people with vast DVD collections will "upgrade" to Blu-Ray. Simply the cost benefit is against the new format.
And frankly, since DVD is good enough for most people, I fail to see how companies will entice users to move away from DVD.
When people were encouraged to dump tapes there was a clear advantage in using the new medium, but with DVDs we have a medium that does not degrade and that can be copied with fidelity to bits in your computer, this creates demand for DVD players that says to the media companies that they need to continue providing entertainment in the "old" format.
Unless they do a 1 for 1 swap I don't think the last incarnation of physical media will be widespread (sooner or later all access to media will be purely digital, DVDs will surely become a distant memory and Blu-Ray discs a curiosity akin to laser disc or SCD.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
" And if that fails, you can place a camcorder in front of the TV
That sounds like a major pain in the ass. If I have to buy one of their players just to get the content into my player, and I also can only import the data in 1x realtime, then I'm not going to bother. I'll just let the pirates handle it, and download it from them."
That was a suggestion from MPAA for teachers who wanted to use clips from DVDs as teaching aids.
As if a teacher could afford a camcorder!
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
So, instead of a single, well documented, easy to break DRM scheme we have multiple obscure DRM schemes with less documentation then a Microsoft product.
No, instead of a single, obscure DRM scheme (DRM used as copy protection has to be obscure by definition, because you're giving the attacker the cyphertext, the algorithm, and the key... the only protection from attack is to obscure the key or the algorithm) that's accepted by everyone and doesn't get pushback from consumers because it just works, we have multiple schemes all protecting the same content (so as soon as you break one you don't need to break the others), universally hated by the consumer (so there's an economic cost to using any DRM at all), and not protected by boobytraps and tilt switches in the Windows kernel (so the digital hole remains open).
Apple are the last people I'd trust to help in the fight against DRM.
This isn't about trust or motivation, this is about the results of their actions. The results of their actions, regardless of their motivation, are that DRM-free music is now the standard. Whether they mean to be a spoiler or not, so long as they *are* a spoiler I don't care why they're doing it.