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Scientists To Breed the Auroch From Extinction
ImNotARealPerson writes "Scientists in Italy are hoping to breed back from extinction the mighty auroch, a bovine species which has been extinct since 1627. The auroch weighed 2,200 pounds (1000kg) and its shoulders stood at 6'6". The beasts once roamed most of Asia and northern Africa. The animal was depicted in cave paintings and Julius Caesar described it as being a little less in size than an elephant. A member of the Consortium for Experimental Biotechnology suggests that 99% of the auroch's DNA can be recreated from genetic material found in surviving bone material. Wikipedia mentions that researchers in Poland are working on the same problem."
It sounds delicious.
I bet they're delicious.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
Jurassic Park edition!
I know it's no longer accurate, but for the longest geneticists thought humans and chimps were 99% similar genetically.... but there does seem to be a gulf...
OTOH, in unrelated cow developments, (not new) is the Super Cow
See, given that our genetic similarity so many known animals is at least 95%, would 99% of the dna really be enough to recreate the animal? It appears as though small differences (1% of a very large number of genes is a large number of genes) are sufficient to make a new species, or, most likely, a non-functioning animal.
Would love to be proved wrong.
Aurochs, the "ochs"-part meaning "ox" and the "aur" being a nomer for something like "original" or "ancestral"...
"The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Their small, portable, cute, and probably taste like chicken!
Doesn't some fat Roman governor serve aurochs at an orgy in Asterix in Helvetia?
Isn't this the critter the Nazis were trying to recreate as a symbol of virile bovine macho?
Since it is recently extinct with a surviving linage, I suppose it _is_ a scientifically likely candidate for this sort of thing even if it has the taint of political incorrectness.
A bit offtopic, I know, but can we please stop referring to everyone and everything as scientists? If you need better terms, try "Geneticists" or "Breeders" or "Italians." Saying that Scientists are going to do it is an overused catch-all phrase that doesn't actually add any information. What, could it have been that Creationists were going to breed the auroch from extinction? Linguists? Liberal arts majors?
The ______ Agenda
99% may not sound like a huge amount missing, but in terms of DNA with about 3.08x10^9 nucleotides, the missing 1% is a massive shortfall. Sure, they can take an educated guess at the rest, but then it will never be a real auroch.
What if they do succeed? What happens then? Do they try to reestablish the species, or will this just be a showpeice? I like cool science, but this seems to be a case of them doing it for no other reason than just because they can.
... does not mean you should.
Have these scientists contemplated what could happen if these created creatures escape into the wild breeding amongst themselves and/or other similar species.
Whole ecosystems can be destroyed by introducing one creature into them.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
A 30min radio offering via bbc iplayer http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00hc946/b00hc6xc/Jon_Ronson_and_the_Quest_for_the_Aryan_Cow/ (runs until 9:32pm Thursday 21st January 2010 ) covers the trip to Munich Zoo by John Ronson. "Jon Ronson investigates the controversial story of the work of Lutz Heck, the director of Berlin Zoo who attempted to resurrect several pure-blooded, extinct animal species as part of the Nazi programme to control the genetic destiny of all creation. He visits Munich Zoo, which proudly advertises its 'formerly extinct aurochs' - a type of large and powerful cow - but does not refer to the fact that behind this apparent triumph lies the story of Heck's collusion with Goering's aspiration to replace Europe's 'racially degenerate' wildlife and plant life with pure, 'noble' and extinct species."
the damn thing doesn't start talking to me, I hate that shit.
It's the reason I'll never go back to Milliways.
This is great and all, but it's also something that the Nazis were doing before WWII - there are quite a lot of these Heck cattle still around. There was even a radio programme on the BBC about it a week or so ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heck_cattle
Maybe the Italians and the Poles are using a technique closer to cloning, but why then talk about breeding back - the same methodology that the Hecks used?
Dunx
Converting caffeine into code since 1982
What could *possibly* go wrong?
It seems like it'd be a better idea to start with something that hasn't been extinct for that long, for practice. I hope they work it out, it'd be cool to see something extinct brought back through science.
The Italians are creating weapons of mass destruction. Send in the troops.
See, given that our genetic similarity so many known animals is at least 95%, would 99% of the dna really be enough to recreate the animal? It appears as though small differences (1% of a very large number of genes is a large number of genes) are sufficient to make a new species, or, most likely, a non-functioning animal.
Would love to be proved wrong.
I suspect that one percent is what kept the normally docile Auroch from eating congregations of businessmen.
I for one welcome our new bio-engineered bovine overlords.
It's called an aurochs. Research fail.
TFS says "The auroch weighed 2,200 pounds (1000kg) and its shoulders stood at 6'6". The beasts once roamed most of Asia and northern Africa. The animal was depicted in cave paintings and Julius Caesar described it as being a little less in size than an elephant."
Some modern horses weigh over a ton (shire horse is up to 1½ ton, brabant horse average over 1 ton, clydesdale horses typically about 1 ton), bulls in some breeds of cattle can be up to 1½ tons, and the American Bison occasionally exceeds a ton also. These animals would hardly be described as just a little less than an elephant in size, so we're looking at a certain amount of exaggeration or hoopla in TFS and TFA.
BTW, the record weight for a bull is 1740 kg, so the Auroch hardly merits being referred to as a "giant"
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I knew it a long time ago that i would live long enough to see Jurassic Park happen.
I'm here for the experience, not the Hyperbole.
well, it worked perfectly in jurassic park!
Where would it live? Between a highway and a power line maybe? There is no living space in modern Europe for wild animals. I doubt it can live in a stall either.
It is called aurochs, not "auroch", as one would realize by clicking the Wikipedia link provided. It is a German word and means "Ancient Ox".
There's more than one kind of elephant.
In fact in Caesar's time there was a third kind - the North African elephant. These were used in war, most famously by Hannibal and so that's probably the sort he was familiar with. They were pretty small, as elephants go.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I'm amazed that nobody has commented that one of the beasties is (or was) an AUROCHS, not an "auroch". Two of 'em would be auroches or aurochsen. Talking about an "auroch" is like talking about a Chinee or Portugee. More to the point, it would be like talking about "ock" as the singular of oxen, since "ox" is the second syllable of aurochs.
-- John Dierdorf, Austin TX
anyone else read this as "Auror" at the first glance? ;-)
Ever wondered whats wrong with the world? http://www.ishmael.org/
..is a load of bull!
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Trademark the name McAuroch - you'll make a fortune.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
It all began with the aurochs.
Our gigantic bovine overlords.
I'm more concerned that these biologists will implement a Tron-inspired 3D file browser that pre-teen female Unix haxors will know how to use. Other than that, I'm ready to buy my tickets to Medieval Park.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
What the fuck are 6'6''?
Seriously, we have to put an end to that non-metric system madness.
Welcome our bovine overlords.
In fact in Caesar's time there was a third kind - the North African elephant.
now they'll have to bring back the North African elephant to validate this claim. Then there's the whole "mice scare elephants" wisdom, which some researchers say was only true with North African elephants and Eastern Egyptian mice.
At which point, to get rid of the extinct Eastern Egyptian mice, they'll have to bring back the extinct European Lion, and slightly older Smilodon (saber-toothed cat).
And to get rid of them, they'll have to save from extinction the nearly-extinct Gorillas.
And to get rid of these, the scientist will have to bring back the Ice-Age winters, so the Gorilla freezes to death.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
"researchers in Poland are working on the same problem."
Problem?
back-breed from modern Texans to recover a human?
Only disaster could possibly occur when we do such thing.
Haven't any of you learned anything from the movie, "Jurassic Pauroch?"
Who's going to be the first to ride one of these in a rodeo? I'm surprised no one even mentioned this.
And later, there's the running... and the screaming...
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
With human DNA of that quality, you could as well get any other type of ape out.
Sorry, 99% is not even close to enough. Try more like 99.99999%
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Try to imagine yourself in the Cretaceous Period. You get your first look at this 'six foot turkey' as you enter a clearing. He moves like a bird, lightly, bobbing his head. And you keep still because you think that maybe his visual acuity is based on movement like T-Rex - he'll lose you if you don't move. No, not Velociraptor. You stare at him, and he just stares right back. And that's when the attack comes. Not from the front, but from the side, *fwooomph* from the other two 'raptors you didn't even know were there. Because Velociraptor's a pack hunter, you see, he uses coordinated attack patterns and he is out in force today. And he slashes at you with this...*brandishes pointy fossil* a six-inch retractable claw, like a razor, on the the middle toe. He doesn't bother to bite your jugular like a lion, say... no no. He slashes at you here...*slashes the chest* or here...*slashes the balls* or maybe across the belly, spilling your intestines. The point is... you are alive when they start to eat you. So you know... try to show a little respect.
Seriously, I couldn't read the article... every time they wrote 'auroch' instead of 'aurochs', I cringed a little.
So when these Auroch things are alive again, are the spellchecker overlords going to add them to the list? I see they get a red line for me today. Those guys read this site, right?
TFA states that they're using back-breeding techniques to breed something that resembles an Aurochs, NOT doing nuclear transfer of existing Aurochs DNA.
Call me when you have the 'real thing', not a cheap Bavarian knockoff.
[John Cleese Schweppes commercial reference; no offense to Bavarians, living or dead.]
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
The cross-breed produced republicans.
Don't feel too bad, even the guy who did his research didn't really... According to the above referenced Wikipedia article:
In 1897, a bill was introduced in the Michigan legislature asking for a ten-year closed season on passenger pigeons. This was a futile gesture. This was a highly gregarious species—the flock could initiate courtship and reproduction only when they were gathered in large numbers; it was realized only too late that smaller groups of passenger pigeons could not breed successfully, and the surviving numbers proved too few to re-establish the species.[3] Attempts at breeding among the captive population also failed for the same reasons.
So, unless they can make a very large quantity of them, it will be difficult to restart the passenger pigeon.
McFly777
- - -
"What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
Who was the brave, yet utterly retarded soul who would dare to catalogue the taste sensations?
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heck_cattle
I wouldn't claim that they have been completely successful, however this is a fairly interesting historical note.
It depends on your point of view. In science, many things are "problems", but can be quite different in scope. Everything is broken down into a series of "problems" to be solved by science. Whether you work on large-scale or very specific problems depends on your field and your specific research, but it all feeds into the overall system and advances scientific knowledge.
For example: something like climate change is a "problem" in that it affects the whole planet in a somewhat unpredictable and possibly disastrous way (for humans anyway).
To get at a solution to that huge problem, you can't really attack it head-on. You have to narrow it down to smaller problems. So for example, we need to ease off on fossil fuels. Great - for that, we need better batteries. Battery tech is a more well-defined problem, and much easier to work on than attacking climate change as a whole.
I'm not a geneticist, biologist, or anything like that (I am a geologist) so I can't say too much about TFS, but I do see it as a "problem" that's worthy of study, for a few reasons. First, for the reason I explained above - if it's valid science, it contributes to the whole no matter what the result. For example, cutting-edge gene sequencing and other techniques are being refined with this type of research, and that has applications across the whole field. Second, it's cool and interesting. As a scientist in a field that's often hard to explain the utility of myself, that's good enough for me... anything that brings us closer to Jurassic Park is awesome. Even if we just have a "Stuff Extinct Because of Humans Park", that would be amazing and extremely valuable.
I'm not accusing you specifically of anything, this is a generality - people do not understand science and how it's useful unless it directly affects their life. The thing is, even the craziest science contributes in some way to "useful" science. Cloning extinct animals isn't curing cancer, which would be a directly useful application of similar science (biology, genetics, etc.) that most will see the utility in. However, besides the improved techniques as I mentioned, we *don't know* what will come of this kind of experimentation. Scientific breakthroughs are often serendipitous - for all we know, this research *will* directly lead to curing cancer.
A final point - science requires a different mindset than engineering. In engineering, there is a distinct problem (say, crossing the river), and (usually) one best solution (a certain type of bridge). In science, it's not the outcome (the bridge) that matters, it's the process. The problem is ill-defined (there's no specific river to cross). The hard part is coming up with the questions that need to be answered (we're looking for rivers to cross, and not necessarily just because we need to get to the other side). What we find along the way slowly but surely adds to our understanding of the world.
http://wearscience.com/design/jurassic/
Proud owner of one. :)
With the first link, the chain is forged.
How much time until we get some Phorusrhacidae to take over the world?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorusrhacidae
Now that the bovine blow-job artists of SlashDot are queueing up, on their knees, to give my member a taste. Do you plan to spit, or to swallow?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Auroch is great, but I would like to see them recreate the Great Pumpkin. It was ten feet tall at its shoulders and could be turned into over 1000 pumpkin pies. Not sure if they have recovered the DNA though.
Just a thought. Assuming natural selection and all, what happens when an extinct species is reintroduced?