The Cell Phone Has Changed — New Etiquette Needed

CWmike writes to share a recent manners-rant that has some great gems about how not to be "that guy" on a cell phone. What rules of engagement are absolutely necessary and what social penalties should become standard practice for repeat offenders? "It's easy to be rude with a cell phone. A visitor from another planet might conclude that rudeness is a cell phone's main purpose. Random, annoying ring tones go off unexpectedly. People talk too loudly on cell phones in public because of the challenge of holding a conversation in a noisy environment with someone who's not present. Cell phones need their own rules of etiquette, or we'll descend into social barbarism."

Comments

Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[CrazyJim1]

"Do not use your cell phone while driving"

Cell phones cause car accidents all the time. Even if you think you're skillful enough to operate a cell phone and drive, doing so can be a role model for someone else who can't do the feat. My friend was even in a bad car accident last week where he says the other driver was on a cell phone. He had some broken ribs, a collar bone, and was pulled out by jaws of life.

If you get a ring, down answer it. Then find a pull off and call the person back.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it easier to justify it if you put it that people can't seem to *walk* and talk at the same time. Walking is something that doesn't require much mental effort, yet people are continually running into things (and other people). Funny enough that people can seem to walk and talk to someone beside them just fine, but give them a cell, and accidents galore (thankfully rarely fatal or injurious unless one walks into a manhole or something). And this is something people do naturally, and now we want to put them in a two-ton vehicle where the outcome is easily death.

OTOH, I wonder if pickpocketing is on the rise these days - with so many distracted pedestrians, you'd think a downtown core would make a target rich environment for people stealing wallets and such.

Hell, I've always wanted to grab a digital camera, and when I see people so engrossed with their cellphone texting, snapping a picture and starting a website about it.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Dotren]

"Do not use your cell phone while driving"

Or get a good Bluetooth headset and a cell phone with voice control.

My old AT&T tilt worked wonders for this when combined with a good headset (using a Plantronics Voyager 510). Voice dialing could be initiated by taking one hand off the wheel for just a few seconds and I never had to take my eyes off the road.. same thing for hanging up. Answering the phone was even easier.

Unfortunately, my iPhone 3G is a step backwards in some ways, including the lack of voice dialing without needing to pull out the phone.

Of course, this does not help the people who lose focus while talking on a cell phone. I'm not sure how this is any different than talking to someone in the car but I've definitely seen people who have this problem.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Monkeedude1212]

Fully Agreed.

I saw this test (I don't know whether it was on Mythbusters or some other show or even on the internet) where they were seeing how well a driver can steer a vehicle while not looking out the front windshield. I believe it was mostly about people programming destinations into their GPS while driving instead of doing it before hand - so it could be a few more seconds and such.

Turns out, a LOT of people can't keep it within their lane after 2 seconds, and even the most skilled people (that they tested) couldn't finish programming the GPS to a destination without being 2 or 3 lanes over.

Part of it is that your natural motions with your other hand will subliminally affect the other. If you look right, your bound to slightly turn right, its habitual for just about anyone. So that split second you spent turning and grabbing your phone from the passenger seat could mean you just bumped into that guy beside you.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[skiman1979]

"Do not use your cell phone while driving"

Cell phones cause car accidents all the time. Even if you think you're skillful enough to operate a cell phone and drive, doing so can be a role model for someone else who can't do the feat. My friend was even in a bad car accident last week where he says the other driver was on a cell phone. He had some broken ribs, a collar bone, and was pulled out by jaws of life.

If you get a ring, down answer it. Then find a pull off and call the person back.

Of course it can be quite a distraction for many drivers to try and hold a phone to their ear or type out a text while driving, What about hands free, e.g., bluetooth headsets? A quick poke of a button on your ear to answer a call shouldn't be any different than pushing a button to change the channel on your radio. If the phone is set to auto answer, it's not much different than having a conversation with a passenger in the vehicle.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[antifoidulus]

The big difference between walking and talking to someone beside you is that:

They are in the same environment you are, and if need be, can stop you from doing something stupid.

Since they are in the same environment as you they tend to lull the conversation when you are at a physical location(eg an intersection) where you need to concentrate on not dying.

Your partner on the cell phone may very well be sitting in their house eating nachos and may start to engage you in a very involving conversation right as you pull up to the intersection, thus your concentration may not be where it needs to be.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[trentblase]

The other day I was guilty of walking downtown while reading some random slashdot article. Someone coming the other direction tried to grab my phone (I imagine him saying "yoink" in his head) and I kind of instinctually pulled it away and kept reading/walking. Only later did I consider that he may have been trying to rob me. I stopped doing the reading/walking thing shortly thereafter (although I had never run into anything, or anyone... not even a close call as it really wasn't that hard to keep track of things immediately in front of me).

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

According to studies, talking on a cellphone is far more distracting than talking on a car. There are many theories as to why that is the case. The other person in the car is, well, in the car. They will notice the same dangers you will, and will start to fear for their own safety if you are too distracted. It takes more brainpower to decipher a phone conversation, with its dropouts, limited bandwidth, and lack of nonverbal cues. Those are the theories, but the facts remain: talking on a cell phone is far more distracting than talking with a passenger.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Pezistential]

Of course it can be quite a distraction for many drivers to try and hold a phone to their ear or type out a text while driving, What about hands free, e.g., bluetooth headsets? A quick poke of a button on your ear to answer a call shouldn't be any different than pushing a button to change the channel on your radio. If the phone is set to auto answer, it's not much different than having a conversation with a passenger in the vehicle.

There is a (maybe not so) subtle difference between a cell phone conversation and one with a person in the car. Passengers in a car tend to have at least partial awareness of what is happening in traffic and can adjust accordingly or even warn the driver (maybe that is worse, in some cases) Fiddling with a cell phone certainly can't help one's driving, but I think it's the conversation (with a non-present party) that is the real problem. Link below is a study... http://www.psych.utah.edu/lab/appliedcognition/publications/passenger.pdf

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just go straight to speaker phone? You can hear them, they can hear you, and best of all, both hands are on the wheel, and both eyes* are on the road.

*Assuming you're not a pirate.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spottedkangaroo]

This is fundamentally incorrect. Talking with another human takes your brain to a place that's outside the car. The radio can do this too, but not to the same extent. And the difference with talking to someone who's in the car is obvious: Their life is in jeopardy along with yours. They are more sensitive to pauses in your speech (which can indicate personal danger for them) and most importantly, they're helping you look at the fucking road.

If you think talking on a bluetooth headset is better in some way than holding it up to your year, you're dead wrong and studies indicate this (a simple google should do the trick). About the only real difference is that holding it to your head slightly limits your field of vision. It's the conversation that's distracting, not holding up the phone. Sorry.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

According to studies, talking on a cellphone is far more distracting than talking on a car.

Seems to me that talking on a car might actually be easier than talking on a Sidekick.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm talking on a car, I'm distracted by the fact that I'm riding on top of a bloody car!

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[HTH NE1]

According to studies, talking on a cellphone is far more distracting than talking on a car.

Seems to me that talking on a car might actually be easier than talking on a Sidekick.

"I resemble both of those, Michael." -- K.I.T.T.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Dan East]

"Do not use your cell phone while driving"

What if you are used by your cell phone?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Gr8Apes]

Honestly, while watching some people talk by

A) turn their head to watch the person they're talking to
B) release steering wheel to emphasize a point with both hands
C) close eyes and shake head when listening

all indicate that some people can't do more than one conscious act at a time. They can either talk, listen, or chew gum, but not 2 out of the three. (FYI: talking is the conscious act - the rest are uncontrolled unconscious learned responses)

These are probably the same people that were talking on cell phones while walking into a telephone pole so hard they wound up in the ER.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if you think you're skillful enough to operate a cell phone and drive, you're almost certainly wrong.

There, fixed that for you. People tend to overestimate their skill at certain things, especially when it comes to driving.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[CannonballHead]

But most people will say "Most people overestimate their skills, sure, but not me."

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Totenglocke]

Cell phones cause car accidents all the time.

I think you means "Not paying attention while driving causes car accidents all the time". Just because X% of people who don't pay attention are on cell phones does not mean that the problem is the phone. The problem is people who don't pay attention to the road and who think the phone is more important than driving.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[MrCrassic]

I second this. It's an especially bad idea when frustrated, as anger easily makes one unfocused on anything but the problem. I've had a few near-hits because of this, and I'm a pretty good driver.

Heck, with the amount of capabilities phones are having nowadays (and the increasing prevalence of unlimited text/minute bundles), even walking while using the cell phone is dangerous. I've lost count of the amount of time I've almost ran into someone or something simply because I wasn't looking up.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Totenglocke]

I've looked at many (not all, obviously, I doubt anyone has seen them all) and they all have one HUGE flaw - they're rigged by forcing the person to not stop talking and forcing them to keep the phone in their hand. In real world driving, you can stop talking if you need to think more, or if you need both hands you can drop the phone. Every study I've seen has prevented this, which obviously would lead to higher accident rates when talking on a phone.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

role model? what about personal responsibility? as dirty harry once said, "a man's got to know his limits."

if i am skillful enough to do something and another adult is not, and they attempt to do the same and injure themselves or others, i have no culpability in that.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[peragrin]

that's just it with headsets it varies. Holding a phone to my ear means I am missing one hand, lose peripheral vision and i have seen myself that it is a bad idea. I notice more slight serves etc. However with a bluetooth headset(mine is built into my car stereo) I have both hands on the wheel, I can move my head around and I have yet to notice a difference in my driving.

As for me it is the best time I have to talk with my sister. We both drive home at roughly the same time It is the best time for us to actually have a conversation that isn't interrupted by our regular lives.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that the roads aren't littered with the burning wrecks of CB radio users is absolute and irrefutable proof that either those studies or your interpretation of them is irredeemably wrong.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

According to studies, talking on a cellphone is far more distracting than talking on a car

I can't lift my car up to my ear, much less figure out how to answer calls on it.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[toastar]

I know Distractions cause so many Accidents every year, Therefore not only should we ban the use of cell phones, but also eating in the car, Looking at maps or even using a radio.

You don't know how many accidents have been cause my sister singing in the car to the radio, I mean you can't really have both hands on the wheel while keeping your ears plugged.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[dgatwood]

The big difference, of course, is that most CB radio drivers are primarily listening, while most cell phone users talk too much. It's not listening on a cell phone that causes problems. You naturally tune out the cell phone if something is happening around you and you can't think. It's when you try to think about something else sufficient to talk and answer complex questions that you get in trouble.

I'm not saying that cell phones cause accidents, though. People concentrating on something other than driving causes accidents, whether the other end of the conversation is in the seat next to you or across the country. Ultimately, the only real difference is that people in the car are less likely to push you beyond what you can handle because they have visual clues that you are getting distracted. That's not enough of a difference in compromisation for additional laws to make sense, though.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[ajlisows]

This is probably especially true in terms of the Slashdot crowd. When you get a call from your boss/coworker/client/relative/friend who has some major computer catastrophe they will be relieved to have gotten through to you and usually blurt out their issue about as frantic as they possibly can. It usually isn't "Hello. I'm having a problem. Do you have a moment?" It is usually "THANK FUCKING GOD YOU ANSWERED MY PRINTER DOESN'T WORK AND IT WORKED THIS MORNING AND I NEED TO GET THESE REPORTS OUT AND I TRIED REBOOTING MY PROCESSOR AND DELETING MY PRINT DRIVER AND CHANGING THE INK IN THE PRINTER AND IT STILL ISN'T WORKING"

Naturally, trying to parse information being delivered that way is going to be pretty distracting. I usually don't get people I am walking with go into that kind of frantic mode.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly enough, I came to basically the same conclusion as this. No studies needed. I just sat down and thought about it a bit and realized it. I knew that whenever I'm talking to somebody in the car, everything is usually fine. So, why not a cellphone? I thought about the difference and came to the conclusion that the passenger in your car will STFU if road conditions warrant it. They can also tell (via body language) when you're not paying attention to them, so they pause until you can give them your attention again.

So, I decided to try this out for myself. The next time somebody called me on the cellphone, I would pretend they were in my car as a passenger (this takes a bit of a mental leap to perform, but it's not too hard to do). I found that in all situations where I need to devote my full attention, the person on the phone continued to talk instead of shutting up. Ah ha!

This is basically what my side of the conversation looked like:

"Hello"
"Oh hey, how's it going?"
"Not too much, just driving to the store."
...
...
"I'm sorry, what was that?"
...
...
"Could you repeat that?"
...
...
"What was that again?"
...
...
(frustrated by conversation now)
"Tell you what, I've give you a call back once I get done driving."

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gyrogeerloose]

People tend to overestimate their skill at certain things, especially when it comes to driving.

I think you misunderestimated me.

G.W. Bush

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[obarthelemy]

it's not some people, it's all people.

first, because if you start thinking you can do it, you're wrong. sooner or later you'll be in a very engrossing or difficult conversation, combined with a very dangerous incident, which you won't be able to handle.

second, because if some can, and some can't, everybody will think they are in the roxxor category.

third, because if some do it and it's kinda socially accepted, too many will do it. so none must do it.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[HeronBlademaster]

Unfortunately, my iPhone 3G is a step backwards in some ways, including the lack of voice dialing without needing to pull out the phone.

My 3Gs lets me enter voice command mode without taking out the phone, if I'm using their standard headset. You just hold down the middle button on the headset wire (between the + and - volume buttons) for a few seconds. I assume the 3G is the same.

I'm not sure how or whether bluetooth headsets work with that setup, though.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[rolfwind]

Solution: Ignore the phone while driving and call back when at your destination.

Quicker Solution: Answer, say "Hold on for a second", ignore phone until you are safely pulled over somewhere.

Really, answering the phone is always in your power - and missing a phone call is not the end of the world. Driving the car is the driver's responsibility as well. We can't have excuses on either one, the buck needs to stop at the person with the power to make those decisions.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[obarthelemy]

nope. that's why you stop to do it.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BitZtream]

Yes, but lets face facts, with the situation you describe.

First off, its true, thats pretty much a good description of a symptom of the problem.

But ...

In reality, the driver CAN and SHOULD know to focus on his environment first and phone call second. He should know to ignore the phone call and focus on the situation when the need arises. If the driver is incapable of doing this simple thing, they shouldn't have a radio or a passenger either, or better translated, they shouldn't be driving.

Of course, in America, we're never actually going to require that people know how to drive so the next best thing is to just ban cell phones while driving because the drivers are mostly too stupid to do both.

The problem is that stupid drivers are still stupid drivers, and while banning cell phones while driving helps mitigate the problem, its not an actual solution to the problem. Of course, something is better than nothing, so I'm all for banning them.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[DigiShaman]

Spun is right.

Talking on a cell phone is a mental distraction. I don't care if you have cybernetic jack direct to the cellphone. It does not negate the fact that the cellphone user will be mentally distracted. People often think they can multi-task. This is false. It is of my understanding that we (as human beings) actually task-switch in a pipelined fashion. True parallel cognitive multi-tasking doesn't really happen. It might at the subconscious however. The problem is that often a cellphone user would get stuck and focus too much attention to the cellphone talking and comprehension and not enough time operating a vehicle. There's that saying that goes, "we look but don't see". DaVinci was right in that respect. Driving is dangerous while completely focused as it is.

Many of you will hate me for saying this, but I firmly believe it should be illegal for the driver to place and/or answer a cell phone while driving. Period!

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BitZtream]

Only because no one writes down as the cause of an accident things like:

'jamming out to the radio'

'not paying attention to the road because I was looking at the girl walking down the side of the road'

'talking to my passenger'

and a handful of other things that are really the same problem just different manifestations.

The problem being the driver shouldn't be driving because they can't prioritize the situation and they stop focusing on driving.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gyrogeerloose]

Just because X% of people who don't pay attention are on cell phones does not mean that the problem is the phone. The problem is people who don't pay attention to the road and who think the phone is more important than driving.

Got to disagree with you here--the phone is the problem.

I'm a commercially-licensed professional driver, by definition more rigorously trained, more experienced and held to a higher standard than the average driver. None the less, I've found that I can get distracted by a cell phone call no matter how hard I try to pay attention to the road. In fact, I will no longer use my cell phone while I'm driving a commercial vehicle and even in my personal vehicle will only answer calls if I can pull over safely within a few seconds of taking the call.

You may think you can use your phone safely while driving but you are wrong and your argument sounds a lot like those I've heard from people who claim to be able to drive while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Don't kid yourself; pull over before you use your cell phone in the car.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

Spun is right.

I never thought I'd hear that from you ;)

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Seemingly some people can handle driving and talking on a cell phone, while other's can't.

Most of those who can't tend to have one thing in common: they don't know who they are.

Attitudes towards driving with a cell phone are like those for driving drunk, the less someone can handle it, the more belligerent they get about doing so.

If you like to drive while chatting, you aren't an unbiased judge of your own ability, and given WHAT the problem with cell phones is, distractions, who knows how many near misses you've had that you... were too distracted to notice. It often takes the inattentiveness of two drivers to cause an accident, just because you haven't had one yet doesn't mean you're in the clear, just that you weren't in the wrong place at the wrong time. The distraction isn't a 100% thing (or people would be veering into telephone poles left and right)

Besides that, the start and stop conversation from someone driving... is darn rude to the person on the other end. (And if you can't stop talking long enough to drive, chances are you talk WAY too much and they're sick of listening to you by now anyway.)

One other thing, let's say you have an accident while on the phone, which is 100% not your fault according to every witness there... but you die in the accident. (Out of control semi etc) Your friend will forever wonder if you might be alive if only they had hung up on you. Do you want to leave that guilt trip on someone you care about?

Even if you don't respect your own life, respect the sanity of your friends.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

Well, the study I saw had people drive an obstacle course. One group had cell phone conversations, the other group had conversations with a passenger. No contest, cell phone talkers screwed up more often. In fact, they screwed up as much as people who were legally drunk do on the same types of courses. Believe what you like, the data shows that talking on a cell phone is VERY distracting.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[DigiShaman]

I always give credit where credit is due. It's an unwritten rule of Slashdotters :)

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

. not even a close call as it really wasn't that hard to keep track of things immediately in front of me).

I would argue that it *was* that hard - if not, he would not have been able to get within yoinking in range without you being aware in the first place.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[martas]

your friend had a collar bone? how unusual... is he from anywhere near chernobyl, by any chance?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

According to studies, talking on a cellphone is far more distracting than talking on a car

Maybe to the person talking, but if I saw someone talking on a car, I'd be pretty distracted.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

I always give credit where credit is due. It's an unwritten rule of Slashdotters :)

Wow, now I agree with you. This is getting weird.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[nine-times]

The other person in the car is, well, in the car. They will notice the same dangers you will, and will start to fear for their own safety if you are too distracted.

Yeah, I read an article about a study (can't find it) where they basically had two people talking about a set topic while one of them was driving. Sometimes the non-driver was riding shotgun, and sometimes the driver was talking to him via a bluetooth headset. Like many of these studies, they found that talking on the cellphone was more dangerous.

According to the article, the researchers observed that when the driver encountered some sort of obstacle or tricky situation, the guy riding shotgun would generally notice the obstacle and shut up on his own. The non-driver on the cell phone wouldn't see the obstacle and would continue talking.

The researchers hypothesized that, because the cell phone caller continued talking, the drivers attention was split and his reactions were delayed. Even if the driver stopped the caller from talking by saying something like "hold on a second...." as soon as he noticed the obstacle, it meant that there was a significant delay while the driver subconsciously prioritized how much attention to give to the caller vs. the road, made a decision on how to react to the caller, and then say "hold on a second."

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Lumpy]

I answer it, but I also am not the typical nimrod. I had installed a car stereo with Bluetooth phone integration. It rings, I see the number on the display and either hit answer or hangup. every car made can have this, It's less than $300.00 installed. Or if you want, get a bluetooth headset for $20.00 and simply tap your head and say "hello?" works great and I keep both hands on the wheel and eyes on the road...

I cant understand the idiots that hold a phone to their head while driving, or the ones that look extra dorky, they hold the phone sideways and at an angle away from their head.

On the other hand, most people out there driving are looking down their hood at the pretty lines, instead of 3-4 cars ahead of them.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[adolf]

Or, perhaps just as important:

Be willing to toss the phone/headset/whatever into the seat beside you if driving conditions dictate that you need more attention than you have available.

So what if it's rude? You'll have plenty of to explain your behavior later, after you're someplace more safe/less hairy/stopped. My boss, and my own clients, would much rather I do this and still be able to solve their problem, rather than wind up dead or hospitalized or even just distraught following a collision.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Lumpy]

He should know to ignore the phone call and focus on the situation when the need arises. If the driver is incapable of doing this simple thing, they shouldn't have a radio or a passenger either, or better translated, they shouldn't be driving.

Sorry but from the thousands of miles I drive every month, I can tell you this.....

MOST DRIVERS have no business driving a car. The ratio is over 50% of people that really should not have a license.... but here in the USA it's a god given right! We have greyhairs that are blind and have a reaction time of a snail in a jar of molasses that the govt is AFRAID of taking their drivers license away.

Soccer moms spraying hairspray and doing their nails. I love the whackjobs that drive with a foot out the window, yes the driver has a foot out the window or on the dashboard... I even saw a guy playing a trumpet while driving....

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[CrimsonAvenger]

They are in the same environment you are, and if need be, can stop you from doing something stupid.

Since they are in the same environment as you they tend to lull the conversation when you are at a physical location(eg an intersection) where you need to concentrate on not dying.

This seems to assume that the person you are talking with is paying much more attention to what you are doing than you are.

If the person beside you is as engrossed in the conversation as you are, likely he'll not see that you're about to do something stupid either.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[amRadioHed]

What gives you the idea he wasn't aware of the person coming his way? Normal people don't jump into the street to avoid being within arms reach of other people they pass.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

You must not be from around here. Collar bone is the common term for clavicle in at least US English.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Totenglocke]

If you cannot talk and drive at the same time, then there are much bigger issues here. Despite the BS claims, as long as you're not an idiot putting the phone in front of driving, it's LESS distracting to talk on the phone than it is to talk to passengers. But hey, it's not like I've ever driven a car with passengers in it or talked on the phone, so how could I possibly be able to compare the two.

Also, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm assuming by "commercially-licensed" driver, you mean you drive trucks? I've seen way too many of those guys nearly kill people by not paying attention to what they were doing, so when I hear the claims that they are "more rigorously trained", I take it with a HELL of a big grain of salt from my personal experience with them.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[adolf]

Also. We should all stop our cars to adjust the radio. Or to reposition our mirrors. Or to sneeze. Or cough. Or pick our noses.

We should always stop the car for a blowjob, even if that means that she stops too. And we should always stop to look at the fuel gauge. And we should always stop to look at the GPS to see when the next turn is coming up. We should stop to take a call. We should stop to adjust the heater. We should stop to lower and raise the windows.

Nay. The truth of the matter is that absolute statements are usually absolutely wrong. Given good road conditions, good visibility, and literally nothing around, the simple truth is that a common human can have plenty of spare attention left over to handle all manner of other little things a second or two at a time while still being a safe and courteous driver at a reasonable speed for the conditions (which really has little to do with the posted limit).

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Totenglocke]

Many of you will hate me for saying this, but I firmly believe it should be illegal for the driver to place and/or answer a cell phone while driving. Period!

I'm fine with that as long as you outlaw passengers (or at least interacting in any way with the passengers) and the radio / music as well. Both of those are just as distracting, if not more so, than a phone.

Then again, maybe it's because I drive a manual so I'm used to being much more focused on my driving, so on the rare occasions I talk on the phone, the phone is definitely NOT my priority.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[D Ninja]

According to studies, talking on a cellphone is far more distracting than talking on a car.

You know one of the advantages of talking on a car? Auto-dial.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[CrimsonAvenger]

Well, the study I saw had people drive an obstacle course. One group had cell phone conversations, the other group had conversations with a passenger. No contest, cell phone talkers screwed up more often. In fact, they screwed up as much as people who were legally drunk do on the same types of courses. Believe what you like, the data shows that talking on a cell phone is VERY distracting.

And of course we all spend a certain amount of time in our daily drive going through the obstacle course while being forbidden to drop the phone. I'd like to see a study done using a "routine" drive (like your daily drive to work, or a trip from one city to the next) rather than a completely artificial one.

Personally, I always find talking to a passenger more distracting. I've never yet felt the urge to look my cellphone in the face while I'm talking to it, but I do that fairly regularly while talking to my wife sitting next to me in the car.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I dunno, I've had people try to take things from me in passing (namely an mp3 player attached to my hip while I had headphones on) -- if you're paying attention, you can read the intent from some distance away. I agree it's possible that he encountered the rare thief who is so adept that his body language betrays nothing... but I'm voting for "he didn't see the bloke until right under his nose" as it's the more likely explanation.

It's also possible that he was walking somewhere that was wall-to-wall people, and no clear line of sight. But in that case, I'd suggest that walking along and reading /. is as rude as talking loudly on the phone in an elevator...

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I thinkt he problem that a lot of people don't realize is that it's not the physical phone that's distracting. The problems I see aren't when answering the phone (surprisingly) -- it's when talking on it. Seems to me that problem is where you're focusing your attention (the conversation), not how that conversation is being delivered to you.

Also, oddly, people seem reluctant to say "Hey, shut up for a second, I'm in a tight spot here" when talking & driving. Or even "Hold on." or "Wait". As if the person on the other end won't understand that they're... you know, driving.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[farble1670]

the goal here is to avoid being distracted when you are driving.

finding your phone, looking at it enough so you can find the "answer" button, maybe needing to unlock the phone first or flip it open, then holding the phone close enough where there person can hear you say "hold on" is not a solution.

and don't give me a bunch of hoopla about how advanced your phone is hands free and you can answer it simply by thinking about it. not everyone has that feature. the vast majority of phones requires you to press a button to answer.

the OP had it right. just don't answer it.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[farble1670]

According to studies, talking on a cellphone is far more distracting than talking on a car.

if i was talking on a car, i'd be paying really close attention not to fall off. i can see what you mean.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[farble1670]

headsets at least free up your arms to control the vehicle. that's something.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

Okay, you win the official prize for 'funniest response to spun's mistake.' Of course, out of the half dozen other entrants, yours is the only one to qualify as 'funny' at all.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Cell phones cause car accidents all the time

Drivers cause car wrecks (not accidents, wrecks or collisions). Cell phone do not. Drivers USING cell phones cause wrecks, cell phones do not. Unless you spread a shitload of them on the road, or fired one at high velocity through a window I don't see how a phone can cause a wreck. Driver TALKING on phones cause wrecks, just like DRIVERS who eat, sleep, read, change CD's, beat their kids, etc.

Get the drift yet? It's the DRIVERS, not the phones.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

When I had a cellphone several years ago [circa 2000] (I got tired of always being reachable and disconnected after contract expired), I had no problem driving and talking on the phone. I was using a headset, but the most important thing is that I was willing to give up minutes to silence in order to concentrate more on the road. My father taught me to drive and drilled into me that, while moving, driving is your job and all else is secondary to that. So, for me, talking on a phone is no different than talking to a passenger: my conversation and any mental capacity required by it are secondary to driving and I do not spend any effort on trying to recall the thread of the conversation. If I forget what I was talking about, then it is up to the other party to re-start the conversation. This also requires being willing to interrupt the other party while they are speaking to tell them to wait while you get out of whatever situation you find yourself in.

Nonetheless, I would guess that fewer than 5% of people are able to drive well AND talk to someone else, whether on the phone or not. How many people do you see driving down the road, looking at their passenger? I never look at my passenger. Why do I need to do that? So, I agree that driving and using a cellphone in any capacity should be completely illegal. I didn't used to feel this way (when I had a cellphone) because I didn't see the big deal in talking and driving, but there were far fewer people using cellphones while driving back then, too. As more people began using phones while driving, I changed my mind because of how completely incompetent it makes them (moreso than they normally are).

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Zero__Kelvin]

"talking on a cell phone is far more distracting than talking with a passenger."

You have clearly never seen my passengers tits

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

What makes you think the obstacle course WAS artificial? Or that subjects weren't allowed to drop the phone?

Your anecdotes are not data. Your feelings are untested, and not a reliable guide to what is more distracting and what is less. Sorry, but I'll take science over anecdotes any day.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spasm]

A standard method for testing the effect of alcohol on reaction time is setting up a chalk 'gun' on the rear bumper of a car and having a driver drive it around a closed course at a fixed speed. The chalk gun fires one pellet at the ground at a randomly determined time; as soon as the driver hits the brake pedal the gun fires a second pellet. You measure the distance between the two chalk spots on the road to get reaction time. You do it several times before alcohol as a control and several times after having a few drinks. It's a great test for those people who claim they're better drivers after a couple of beers, because it inevitably shows a reduced reaction time.

I always wanted to see this reproduced with a cellphone involved instead of alcohol. Especially for my wife, who claims that she's still a good driver while on the cellphone.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Zero__Kelvin]

Right. But the difference is that I really don't overestimate my abilities. I'm just that good. If you don't believe me ask the cops that failed to pull a rolling roadblock on me ;-)

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[DigiShaman]

Passengers and radio can definitely be distracting, without question. Two things however. 1) passengers can sense when a drivers attention is occupied (city vs country road driving). 2) radio is passive. It's often always tuned out of the mind when the driver needs to focus more attention to driving. It's given a low attention priority.

The above two don't really compare to talking on the cellphone so much. For example, there is no visual feedback or queues to inform each other of their attention status. As such, the driver feels compelled to maintain a constant I/O of communication because the other person will never know if the driver is comprehending at all times. So it is assumed they are 100%. Naturally, the driver reciprocates by ensuring what has been said doesn't go in one ear and out the other.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

You know the funny thing is I know I can not do this. But I also try to be considerate of others around me. So I try to move to a nice spot somewhere where I am out of earshot and out of the way.

Now here is the weird thing. People follow me there. It is like I have discovered something and they just HAVE to see what I am doing. It is funny. I can be in a store. In an isle TOTALLY empty. Whip out the cell phone and suddenly there are 3 people hovering over me. Where did they come from?! Then I have to walk and talk again. Making me look like 'that guy'. Try to do the right thing....

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Gr8Apes]

That sounds like driving on the freeway.

By your logic, since some can't do it, then none should do it.

I'm fine with that - because then I can drive alone....

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

The reaction probably prevented him from persisting!

If I were trying to rob someone, grabbed their phone, and all they did was non-chalantly - and without taking their eyes off the screen - pull it back and continue walking casually. I'd be very confused for a moment, then decide they were probably some sort of martial arts master and we're being polite enough not to kick my ass - count myself lucky and be on my way.

I can just picture the would-be thief: "Dear god, what kind of a badass doesn't even look up at his assailant - or turns their back to them and keeps walking?"

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Cell phones cause car accidents...

Cell phones don't kill people; inattentive, self-absorbed morons with steering wheels in one hand and conversation preoccupying their consciousness (who probably don't understand physics) kill people.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[CrimsonAvenger]

What makes you think the obstacle course WAS artificial? Or that subjects weren't allowed to drop the phone?

Well, the fact that I saw some TV footage of one of those tests a few months back? Orange cones in a parking lot marking out an obstacle course don't fit MY definition of "realistic"....

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

I don't think you could get the funding to do these kinds of experiments in real city streets. Or even a real mock up. But how much would you like to make a bet that there are studies comparing driver's reactions in obstacle courses to known accident rates? And we could go double or nothing that these cell phone tests take those previous studies into account when making conclusions. Most scientists aren't idiots.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gd2shoe]

if not, he would not have been able to get within yoinking in range without you being aware in the first place.

Excuse me? When you see someone walking the other way down a sidewalk do you dodge evasively to keep them out of reach at all times? It sounds like the event was immaculately routine until the stranger tried to swipe his phone. You do realize that it could be done very quickly and effectively by someone walking past him?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

The ratio is over 50% of people that really should not have a license.... but here in the USA it's a god given right!

Well, we don't have the mass transit that countries with stricter driving laws do. And we can't, economically, because we are so spread out. So what's the answer? Do we relocate everyone into cities where there's mass transit? Build mass transit to every tiny town in America, and damn the cost? Shoot people in the head when we take their license, because honestly it's better than letting them starve to death? You take away the license of fifty percent of Americans and what will you do? I mean, I kind of agree with you, many people shouldn't be driving and we pay a 55,000 person a year toll in deaths from accidents. But what's the alternative?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gullevek]

Whole generations where not be able to call each other when they were driving. As nice it is to be able to contact someone all the time, when I am in a car, I just don't pick up the phone at all.

Same when I am in the train, or on the bus, or in a restaurant.

But that is because I am in Japan, and people still know how to behave when they get a phone call.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, just get a room for chrissakes. ;)

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[jabberw0k]

You're still using Borland Sidekick? The world's first million-selling TSR (Terminate Stay Resident) DOS program?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[socsoc]

I also have a collar bone, but I didn't get it from talking on the phone.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[ppanon]

CB radios have shared channels. On those you don't tend to get into long discussions without breaks because it's not polite to anybody else that might want to share the channel, including the person you're talking to. Thus it's less likely that you'll be discussing something that will seriously grab your attention and hold it at a wrong moment. Over.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Totenglocke]

The above two don't really compare to talking on the cellphone so much. For example, there is no visual feedback or queues to inform each other of their attention status. As such, the driver feels compelled to maintain a constant I/O of communication because the other person will never know if the driver is comprehending at all times. So it is assumed they are 100%. Naturally, the driver reciprocates by ensuring what has been said doesn't go in one ear and out the other.

If a person can't figure out that when you need to concentrate, you say "hang on" and you shut up and concentrate, then they shouldn't be driving PERIOD.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[ppanon]

My condolences in advance. If you're doing this on a regular basis, it's only a matter of time before it catches up to one of you.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Yep, possible. But see my reply to prior commenter who said basically the same thing.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[indiechild]

Indeed, multitasking for humans is a myth, and in my experience it isn't true that "women are better at multitasking" either, they get just as easily distracted while driving as men.

There are some people who will engage you in serious conversations and won't stop when you enter a tricky patch of traffic -- these people are dangerous.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[newdsfornerds]

Should read, "AND I TRIED REBOOTING MY HARD DRIVE" since almost all lusers refer to their computer as "the hard drive."

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Aqualung812]

No, voice dial is a new feature in the 3G S iPhone, it is not available even with software update on the 3G.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[newdsfornerds]

I'm tempted to slap cell phones of people's hands when they are being particularly rude. It would be relatively easy to make it seem like I accidentally bumped into them. A water pistol would work at the movie theatre although if I were caught, I would probably be arrested for assault.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[noidentity]

I've never had much of a problem doing things that distract me from driving, because I can barely even carry on a conversation while doing so. Thus, when I'm driving, I'm driving and nothing else. Somehow I find driving enjoyable, because there is so much to pay attention to in order to make everything smooth and efficient. Things like looking ahead for yellow/red lights so I can let off the accelerator and not have to brake as much.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[imuffin]

If this is true, then why have traffic fatalities trended downward for the last several years while cell phones have shot up dramatically during the same time period?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Belial6]

Unless you are going to advocate the removal of all stereos from every car, you are nothing but a hypocrite. Car stereos have caused FAR more accidents than cell phones, but since they have been popular longer, the neo-luddites try to explain away why their stereo is ok, but a cell phone isn't.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

It has very little to do with skill. Humans simply make mistakes. Especially when we think that we are safe.

Skiers often injure themselves on some of the easiest slopes. I'm a bad skier, but I almost never fall in the slopes. I've had a few close calls in the line to the ski lift and I've been knocked down by the lift itself one time (luckily I didn't get stuck in it and fall down). Shit happens when you think you are safe.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

It is in Australia, fineable etc. Try policing it tho'

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Belial6]

Absolute and complete BS. Your trying to tell me that the 5 and 6 year old in the back seat that are fighting over who is on who's side of the car, and whether one of them is touching the other are going stop arguing because you are distracted? If you believe that, you are a scary person.

The fact does not remain that talking on a cell phone is more distracting. The fact remains that there are huge numbers of neo-luddites that find cell phones to be some form of evil artifact. Sometimes a necessary evil, but evil all the same. Due to this, they create 'studies' that are fundamentally flawed. Can you point me to a single 'study' that compares the quality of driving on and off a cell phone when the driver has been consistently driving for greater than an hour at night on a straight road without many distinguishing features? How about comparing the driving quality between people who have been working for the last 8 hours, and are now on a road that they have driven 1000 times before? Or, even easier, how about not rigging the 'study' to require the person on the cell phone to keep using the cell phone in tricky situation, while allowing the non cell phone driver to stop their conversation.

The so called 'studies' have nothing to do with facts. They are an attempt at beating back those evil new fangled devices. Nothing more.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[petermgreen]

It would be interesting if they introduced a rule that mobile phones in cars were only allowed to be half duplex and with an enforced clunk when releasing the talk button.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[winwar]

"I mean, I kind of agree with you, many people shouldn't be driving and we pay a 55,000 person a year toll in deaths from accidents. But what's the alternative?"

We could actually teach people how to drive. And actually evaluate them properly. I probably had a fairly rigorous drivers ed course and drivers exam (for the US) and it wasn't very good.

On the teaching front. Teach the rules, both written and unwritten (obey the speed limit but also don't impede traffic, for instance). Teach them how to actually control the car, especially in emergency situations. A basic driving school. Put them in real traffic and correct their errors. If they do something deliberately unsafe fail them and make them start over. Then evaluate them in a similar situation. The crappy drivers in this scenario would be better than most drivers today. People would take driving a bit more seriously because it would cost real money to get a license.

We could also enforce traffic laws differently. Penalize things that are actually dangerous rather than things that are easy to ticket.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6090342-7.html

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[spun]

Well aren't you the practical one? Stop being so reasonable, this is supposed to be a flamewar.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Ride a motorcycle - learn how poor most drivers are, then make that statement.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gd2shoe]

I dunno, I've had people try to take things from me in passing (namely an mp3 player attached to my hip while I had headphones on) -- if you're paying attention, you can read the intent from some distance away. I agree it's possible that he encountered the rare thief who is so adept that his body language betrays nothing... but I'm voting for "he didn't see the bloke until right under his nose" as it's the more likely explanation...

Ok, that's somewhere to start, at least. I think your points have merit, but still don't invalidate the post you first responded to.

... try to take things from me...

You seem to imply multiple occasions. You do imply having experience reading this particular body language. I don't know about trentblase, but perhaps he (like me) don't walk crowded places as frequently as yourself. Perhaps there's less crime where he lives. For whatever reason, he might not be familiar with the body language you speak of. Alternatively, you may have a streak of really crummy thieves where you live.

... but I'm voting for "he didn't see the bloke until right under his nose"

Oh, he probably did see him. It would have been through his peripheral vision. He could easily avoid him and stay out of his way (if he has sufficient read-walking skill), but reading body language would be very difficult.

Further, he's probably using a different definition of "keep track" than you are. You've stated that watching body language is part of your definition of "keep track". That's a street-smart attribute that must be developed with time and experience. Not everyone does it. Not everyone can.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I punched on a guy on Grafton st in Dublin that tried to do that to me. I didn't even mean to it was just a reaction. Floored him to, he was expecting that at all.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BrokenHalo]

Be willing to toss the phone/headset/whatever into the seat beside you...

Or get yourself a bluetooth earbug so that you can keep your hands free. I should add that while this a good solution for routine phone conversations, or allowing that bimbo to keep at least one hand on the wheel while applying her make-up, I wouldn't recommend this as a solution in a situation like an earlier poster mentioned, where the caller is making demands on your problem-solving skills.

If someone is demanding that you fix their computer or solve differential equations over the phone, you have to just say you'll get back to him.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Belial6]

Yes, that is a great example of a rigged 'study' that does not address any of the examples I showed of missing data. In fact, that very study produced data that showed driving drunk was safe. Of course, they contradicted their data with regards to the safety of driving drunk, and used that as a benchmark to show that cell phones are obviously evil. After all, we have established in our society that driving drunk is evil, so if we associate cell phones with drunk driving, that must make cell phones eeeeviiillll....

Thanks for supporting the point that these 'studies' are fixed.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[impos]

...I have yet to notice a difference in my driving.

Everybody around you actually trying to get somewhere safely would.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BrokenHalo]

Trains, buses or restaurants are perfectly OK so long as you're discreet about it, and you're not interrupting a current conversation unnecessarily.

What pisses people off are those who bellow into the instrument at length, monopolising the attention of everybody around them. This also means you have to choose your ringtone with some care, or set your phone on vibrate.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[CrimsonAvenger]

Most scientists aren't idiots.

Most scientists aren't idiots. On the other hand, "cellphones while driving!!11!!" is the latest bugaboo du jour. I always distrust reports that support the latest panic-fad....

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BrokenHalo]

We could actually teach people how to drive.

Exactly right. That would mean, of course, that drivers' licences should be harder to get, and require more training. In Australia it is common to read articles in the media complaining about truck drivers, but the fact remains that by the time you are qualified to drive a heavy combination or a road train, you have been through at least 3 separate courses of training and driving tests that provide little leeway for fuckups.

While we can't force people to pay attention while driving (which would prevent most accidents), we can insist that they have the proper skills to physically handle the vehicle, and they should know ALL of the rules of the road.

This is one area where "good enough" just isn't.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, answering the phone is always in your power - and missing a phone call is not the end of the world.

As a 911 dispatcher, I agree 100%.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

But most people will say "Most people overestimate their skills, sure, but not me."

Doesn't really count as estimating when you're drawing a conclusion from data (never had a crash on or off a cell phone).

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Psychopath]

I'm not sure I understand your thoughts around a license costing more equaling better or more serious drivers. The USA is not even in the top 10 for deaths due to vehicle accidents per capita; we're ranked #15 in the world even though, surprisingly, we're #7 per capita in the number of vehicles.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_car_occ_col_wit_car_pic_up_tru_or_van_percap-up-truck-van-per-capita

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think the "too spread out" is the true reason you can't afford mass transit. Sweden has a much lower population density than the US and still have mass transit in and between all cities and towns, only the most rural areas are without mass transit and often even those areas have a subsidized kind of taxi-service that you have to pre-order.

Also the death-toll per 100.000 PersonMiles is much lower in Scandinavia than in the US, so it's not really a question of geography it's a question about priorities, the people of USA does *not* want to pay a lot of taxes, so they chose to have high death tolls instead, and from a macroeconomic viewpoint it might even be the right choice to make, I don't know, I'm not an economist.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Naturalis Philosopho]

Yeah, the tests aren't very realistic. In real life the cones are moving, sometimes disobey the traffic laws, change speed, and are holding phone conversations of their own. So your point is?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

You let people drive a scooter without a license. At worst, they'll make a bump in your car.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Trains, buses or restaurants are perfectly OK so long as you're discreet about it

No. They aren't. Unless a close family member is simultaneously in labor, in a burning building, and being attacked by rabid monkeys you look at your silently vibrating phone to see who it is on caller id and call them back when we don't have to listen to you.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha you are wrong cuz I can drive perfeect on marijuana. well not Perfect but still better than 95% of people. I dont know if you count marijuana as a drug tho, so that may be a problem..

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Shoot people in the head when we take their license, because honestly it's better than letting them starve to death?

You'd be my new hero if it weren't for the sarcasm.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Good in theory, bad in practice.

You'd lose at least half of the driving population at large if you required them to actually know how to drive worth a damn. Probably two thirds of college students and virtually all teenagers would be gone too. This would do very interesting things to our economy. I'd almost be willing to go as far as dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[L4t3r4lu5]

So, we can't properly multitask. Are we at least Hyper Threaded?

Please don't say we're still on NetBurst...

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[wiz_80]

My preferred solution is to have tiered licenses. Bronze would get you econoboxes, lowered speed limits, and higher insurance costs. Silver would get standard cars and normal traffic laws and insurance costs, while Gold would give access to sports cars, lower insurance costs, and perhaps give an extra 10% on the motorway speed limit (not the city speed limit, of course). Each would require progressively more training and more frequent re-testing intervals.

The question is then how you would check that the Porsche barreling down the outside lane is actually being driven by a Gold-standard driver and not a Bronze-licensed script kiddy who r007ed his daddy's car's firmware...

This already exists to a point in Italy, where newly-licensed drivers are restricted to smaller engine capacities and lowered speed limits for three years. ISTR that there are also stiffer penalties for speeding and perhaps other offences. The enforcement problem, however, is similar: short of stopping every car not legal for new drivers, it's hard to enforce.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Decisions?!? But I can't make decisions!! Isn't that what the government is for?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess... you still don't know why that girl you like keeps dating assholes rather than a nice guy like yourself?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[houghi]

Phones now have bluetooth. Car radios now have blutooth. Buy a new radio and talk handsfree. It makes for a HUGE difference if you hold your phone or if you are spaking handsfree. Strangely also for your concentration in traffic.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Grundlefleck]

Not sure if you're aware of this. Just some information relating to what you've said, and putting a label on it.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[houghi]

You decided that the alternatives where no good right from the start. Indeed 100% coverage is not possible. So start with 5% or 10% or whatever. The problem is (and that is not a US thing, that happens everywhere) that the place where people live and the place where people work have changed over time.
People used to live in the cities and work in the cities. That was also the time that public transport evolved.

So if you want public transport to be successfull, you must tackle several things.
1) How do people get to where the public transport is.
2) What are the highest potentiol routes and times
3) How do get people from that public transport to the office

The shorter the distance and time is with 1 and 3, the more interesting it will become as an alternative.
And 2 should be as direct as possible.

e.g. I could take public transport. I live near a train station and where I work there is a train station nearby. However I would need to change trains twice, which will mean I will miss a connection at least 1 time a week going to work, which will mean I will need to get a train earlier, so I am in in time.

So even that I live in Belgium where public transport is not bad, it still is not an alternative for me now. It used to be at another place where I wokred and I would prefere it to driving each day.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Call it a hunch, but I'm guessing you haven't either.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Lumpy]

Make it harder to get a license. far more education in getting that license plus required classes for every renewal.

you take your classes when 16, then never EVER get more education.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[blanck]

The other week I was behind a person at a stop sign at a T-intersection. The person in front of me seemed asleep in the center of the lane. After a gentle honk on my end, she slowly crawled forward, turned left, and stopped in the center of the perpendicular lane.

As I passed, I noticed she had a 'Hang up and Drive' bumper sticker plastered to the back of her car and was talking on the phone. Some people seriously can't even pull over correctly.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, I kind of agree with you, many people shouldn't be driving and we pay a 55,000 person a year toll in deaths from accidents. But what's the alternative?

I just started wondering about alternatives.

I think up to about a 100 years ago, most USA citizens did fairly well without cars. And nowadays, we have the internet, home delivery and much more interconnectivity than ever before. You don't need to leave your home to get your pizza, or to get your shopping, or to get your furniture.

Does (almost) everyone in the US really need a car? If so, what went wrong over the last +-100 years that the need for transportation has grown so much?

(I don't know, perhaps schools concentrated and that's where you need to drive to?)

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Xest]

You can easily afford mass transit (have you seen your military budget?), the problem is, for most Americans it's not a priority and so it goes into things like the military.

You don't need mass transit to every town in America- that's not even how it works here in little old England. You just connect up the major cities with trains and coaches and have local bus services to towns close to those central hubs. Anything further away than that can just drive to the closest city with a coach/train depot and park there- if the goal is cutting road deaths then this is no big deal, if a town is large enough to have heavy traffic, it's large enough to support mass transit, if it's not, large enough to support mass transit, it's small enough that there's only so few cars that road accidents aren't such a problem.

It has economic benefits too as it often allows people to commute further, for example, including traffic, it would take me 4hrs to get to London from where I live, by the train I can get there in 1hr 50mins- I still wouldn't go that far every day personally, but you get my point. The fact it gets traffic off the road improves things for vehicles that do need to be on the road- emergency services, trucks, etc. and it also means people are less prone to delays getting to work, getting to clients and so forth improving efficiency through less lost employee time sat waiting in a vehicle.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Rubbish.

If you take a horde of chimpanzees and give them shotguns and if they then kill each other, you can claim that the chimpanzees and not the shotguns are the problem as much as you want; the fact remains that giving the shotguns to the chimps was a bad idea.

Put another way, humans are humans. Complaining that they're not perfect isn't going to lead anywhere; in particular, it's not going to solve the problems at hand. You gotta work with what you have, not what you wish you had, and accepting that humans are stupid and incapable of multitasking is a necessity. Yes, it sucks, but hey - life isn't fair.

Sometimes, you need to come off of your high horse and take a look at the real world - at least if you want to solve the real world's problems.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[dintech]

Maybe becuase of the lack of visual contact you have to think more intently about the language you use while on the phone, even if it's subconcious thought. So even even if you are only listening, your language 'processing' for want of a better word, is still in 'phone' mode which requires more bandwidth.

The driver might even spend time imagining or filling in how the other person is gesturing or what their facial expressions might be, again possibly unconciously. Conversely, a passenger in the car could pick up visual cues from the driver, even if the driver doesn't look directly at the passenger.

All this might change the dynamic of the process. I'm just hypothesizing though...

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[qc_dk]

Obviously you will never get mass transit and bike infrastructure comparable to e.g. Scandinavian standards all over the US. It will never be economically feasible to do in places like Nebraska or the Dakotas. But, it is all the metropolitan areas, like New York has started doing with bike paths.

It is a question of priorities. Only 3000 people were killed in the 9/11 attacks, yet you have spent close to 1'000'000'000'000 dollars fighting a rather pointless war in Iraq. If that amount of money had been used on infrastructure or health-care reform a lot more lives could have been saved.

What I find really odd as a foreigner is the strong emphasis put on being a devout Christian by Americans. Yet at the same time espousing values that are diametrically opposite to those championed by Jesus. And, it seems to be strongly correlated, so that the most bible-thumping southern states are also those most in favour of war and least in favour of a health-care reform.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[chimpo13]

I am in Korea, so driving, being on the bus, being on the train, walking, watching a movie, eating at a restaurant, teaching a class and having sex are all good times to answer the phone and have long and conversations.

Maybe that's why Koreans hate Japanese (besides Dokdo is ours!).

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[upuv]

My list.

1. Don't use a cell/mobile while driving.
2. Don't text on a cell/mobile while driving.
3. Don't check email on a cell/mobile while driving.

4. ( I debated about making this #1 ) Don't talk on the phone in the toilet.

5. A customer that has come to your store/shop/business in person takes PRIORITY over a fat lazy ass on the phone.

6. "HELLO HELLO HELLO, I can't hear you I'm on the train. ..... I THINK I LOST YOU .... CAN YOU HEAR ME .... I'll CALL YOU ONCE I'm OUT OF THE TUNNEL" means you are a moron for even trying to use the phone on the train in a tunnel. hang it up.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[vertinox]

Solution: Ignore the phone while driving and call back when at your destination.

I used to work for a company where management would get hostile if they had to leave a voice mail , but then again they also would fire people for not driving in the snow to work at the risk of life and limb.

Did I mention they have really good lawyers to fight employee retaliation and love fight unemployment benefits?

Then again... I suppose there is a reason I don't work for them anymore.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[ByOhTek]

Hmmm... your solution has merit.

At least more than my sisters.

I've never been in the card with her driving, and had her *not* answer the phone and talk for 5-10 minutes. She then claims to not talk on the phone while driving.

So, her solution is to lie.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[upuv]

First off small town anywhere doesn't have mass transit. That's just dumb.

Mass transit is for areas with large population centers. I'm thinking the US has a few of those. So spread out eh? It has nothing to do with spread out. It has to do with regional density and the cost of gas. The US blatantly keeps the local price of gas low. Lots of reasons. I'll mention a couple I know. One of the biggest industries in the US is auto making. Cheap gas buys votes, how many times has it been used as a political chip during elections?

The US plain and simple doesn't have a lot of "public" transport because no political leader wants to be the one that spend huge on a dead end public sector project. It's political suicide. Lets face it. Any city that does invest is going to lose money. Why? The regional/state/federal plans do not support it. Thus the cost is HUGE. Secondly you have the mindset of the people. US peoples first reaction is to grab the car keys. It's not to walk the 3 blocks. It is VERY hard to break this habit.

Now a few cities have had no choice but to invest. New York being notable. Chicago making a name for itself. Why? Well density overcame the price of gas in the equation.

Montreal in Canada has a "decent" public transport system compared to a lot of similar size US cities. Hell Athens has a darn good public transport system. And Greece is not exactly known as a world economic powerhouse.

No really there are no excuses for the US not to have public transport. Once the price of gas starts to rocket again all of a sudden you will start seeing cities in the US trying to figure out public transport solutions. It has NOTHING to do with "spread out".

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[mcgrew]

TFS mentioned only "rudeness", but you're are entirely correct. Using your phone while driving isn't just rude, but can be deadly. What's rude is someone getting upset because you didn't answer your phone -- that just happened to me last night. Worse, there was heavy traffic, in town, and the streets were slicker than snake snot.

From TFS: A visitor from another planet might conclude that rudeness is a cell phone's main purpose.

How provincial of Computerworld's writer. Rudeness varies from culture to culture. In Thailand, it is extremely rude to point your foot at someone, even accidentally. Bhudda* help you if you step on Thai money -- the king's picture is on it.

But flipping someone the bird has no meaning whatever there.

An extraterrestrial probably would not even have the concept of rudeness or manners, and if he did they would surely be different from any earth culture's mores. AFAIK, humans are the only species on earth with this concept, why would anyone think an extraterrestrial would be anything at all like us? Sometimes I think science fiction writers, especially those writing screenplays, have way too little imagination.

*Thailand is a Bhuddist country.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[upuv]

I'm not distracted. I'm disturbed and a bit freaked out.

How the HELL did I get up here? I was in the bar ... now I'm talking to god knows who from on top of my car.

( Mentally start going backward trying to figure out who spiked my drink. All I can remember is "Nice rack, Ohh nicer rack etc." I'm such an ass )

Oh crap, Am I wearing pants? Oh thank god I am.

( Wallet, check )

( house keys, check )

( Quick self body pat down assessing damage, good all good )

( Quick glance around the parking lot. Nope no one saw me. That's good Very good. )

TAXI

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[upuv]

DON'T USE A PHONE WHILE DRIVING PERIOD YOU IDIOT!

Are you honestly saying that the use of a blue tooth headset makes driving a car while using a phone as safe as driving a car while not on the phone?

You then proceed to point out that the iPhone/JesusPhone actually has distracting issues for a driver. And then you admit it caused you too loose focus on the road.

There is no safe way to use a phone and drive PERIOD.

This is all like saying while in the bar. "Well I had 2 drinks my first 30 min, Then about 1 ever 30 min after that. But my last one was a coke. So I should be good to drive in 10 minutes." If you play drink math you are not good to drive. It's simple. Don't drink/use phone/have sex/cook a pasta dinner while driving.

People get upset at me because I don't answer the phone the nano second it rings. They actually do not understand my response. "Sorry I was driving and I had to pull off the road."

STOP USING THE PHONE AND DRIVING!

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Drethon]

Around here I don't spend much time staring at people trying to determine if they want to rob me since I've never had anything stolen, ever. Different experiences, different perspectives.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

1.) We are only spread out because we let just about anyone have a driver's license. Our development paterns over the past 50-60 years have reflected this fact.
2.) Most people live in metro areas where mass transit (subway, lightrail, bus, regional train) would work for a decent percentage of people.
3.) People tend to not use mass transit because just about anyone can have a driver's license.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BrotherBeal]

Why not just handle that the same way unlicensed drivers are currently handled in the U.S.? A cop isn't going to pull every car over just to make sure that the driver is licensed - the penalty is just much stiffer if you are pulled and found to be unlicensed. In your scenario, if a policeman sees a Porsche barreling down the outside lane and pulls it over, he'll discover that the driver doesn't have an appropriate license and then can take some sort of punitive action.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[upuv]

That fact is the cell/mobile phone not matter how it is operated is a distraction. You can plain and simple shut it off. It is something we have complete control over.

We do not have complete control over the children you have mentioned. Un-fortunately this distraction will be part of many peoples driving lives. And it does cause accidents.

If we were to combine the duel distraction of phone and children in a car then I would dare say that the driver is completely negligent.

Driving a car is not a rite. It is a privilege. You are operating something that can kill, and cause serious harm in fractions of a second. Society has forgotten this.

Drinking and driving is not evil, it's Moronic. The same goes for usage of a phone while driving. Both of these you as a driver have complete 100% control over.

The cell/mobile phone is a wonderful invention. I personally have 2. It is not an evil artifact. There is a time and place to use it. And it's not while driving.

Lets put it this way. I will never feel the guilt of killing my son because I crashed the car while talking on the phone. I will never say "If I had only not answered the phone." I'm am simply not that selfish to put other lives at risk just so I can get the satisfaction of some inane phone conversation. Why? Because I do not ever talk on the phone while driving.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[wiz_80]

I think that is in fact what happens in Italy, but it's not very effective at prevention, due to a) low probability of getting pulled over at random, and b) poor decision making skills of people in the newly-eligible-to-drive age group (speaking from memory of myself at that age, here).

I'd suggest having license scanners built into the ignition or similar tech fixes, but that would suffer from two problems: drivers would find a way to bypass it, and the gummint would get involved as well, with the usual horrible privacy violations that this entails.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

But you wouldn't say that, right?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[upuv]

OK I'll bite.

Where is the proof this is a rigged study?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[mcgrew]

It is a question of priorities. Only 3000 people were killed in the 9/11 attacks, yet you have spent close to 1'000'000'000'000 dollars fighting a rather pointless war in Iraq.

It's worse than that -- Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

What I find really odd as a foreigner is the strong emphasis put on being a devout Christian by Americans. Yet at the same time espousing values that are diametrically opposite to those championed by Jesus.

Pat Robertson and his ilk are Satan's tools. The true national religion here is the worship of money, and that is the religion Robertson and his kind preach; people who actually try to live their lives as Jesus would want them to are few and far between. Hell, there was a woman I'd been pursuing who was a self-proclaimed bible thumper, yet threatened violence, on the Sabbath, toward another woman I'd been with previously who is still a friend. And she saw nothing wrong with it.

I told her she should stop thumping that bible and start reading it.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Cro Magnon]

I know that when I'm driving with my GF, there have been many times when I'd shut up in mid-sentence to focus on heavy traffic/curving road, and she could see why I shut up. A hypothetical cellphone talker might have been saying "Cro, are you still there? HEY CRO!!", which certainly would have been more distracting.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Algan]

Back where I was born and raised we used to have this law that required every new driver to have distinctive signs displayed on his or her car for the first year. It was a big honking yellow disc with an exclamation mark on it. You had to have it on both front and rear windshields. We used to call it "the lemon" and it was a source of endless jokes. It also made other drivers be more cautious around you and cut you some slack. Good thing, in an environment that could make New York and Boston drivers look positively tame.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Twice in a decade. The first was a clumsy pickpocket (probably the only reason it didn't work out), which very likely made me a lot more aware for the next attempt. I tend not to think about the reasons behind paying that kind of attention.

I did intend my comment [mostly] for amusement though that didn't come across very well. It was in response to this statement in particular...

. not even a close call as it really wasn't that hard to keep track of things immediately in front of me

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

The ratio is over 50% of people that really should not have a license.... but here in the USA it's a god given right!

Well, we don't have the mass transit that countries with stricter driving laws do. And we can't, economically, because we are so spread out. So what's the answer? Do we relocate everyone into cities where there's mass transit? Build mass transit to every tiny town in America, and damn the cost? Shoot people in the head when we take their license, because honestly it's better than letting them starve to death? You take away the license of fifty percent of Americans and what will you do? I mean, I kind of agree with you, many people shouldn't be driving and we pay a 55,000 person a year toll in deaths from accidents. But what's the alternative?

If you ignore all of the sparse states (AKA Alaska) which bring the population density figures way down, and look more at say, New York, your statement makes no sense. New York has greater population density France, and more than twice that of Spain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France

On the other hand, presence of developed public transit does not seem to affect who actually gets on the road (assuming bad drivers cause accidents):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traffic_related_deaths_-_Road_fatalities_per_vehicle-km.svg

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Cro Magnon]

As for me it is the best time I have to talk with my sister. We both drive home at roughly the same time It is the best time for us to actually have a conversation that isn't interrupted by our regular lives

I'd rather have a conversation interrupted by my regular life than by that telephone pole ahead of me. Or the pedestrian crossing the street. Or that pink-haired teen that DIDN'T put down her phone.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[harl]

Replace talking on cell phone with talking to person sitting next to them.

Is your position consistent then?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[DigiShaman]

Already been answered at the link below.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1523920&cid=30899200

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BrokenHalo]

Unless a close family member is simultaneously in labor, in a burning building... yada yada.

1. It is perfectly possible to carry on a conversation unobtrusively. (I'll resist the temptation to say "unless you're a loudmouthed American", since I have met a significant number of human beings from that nation. ;-)) Unless you are actively eavesdropping (in which case you're a creep), such a conversation need not impinge on your consciousness at all.

2. There is no need to impose such earth-shatteringly stringent conditions on use of phones in these circumstances. The technology is there for our convenience. That can happen in small ways as well as large. Where it becomes objectionable is where it is intrusive, distracting or dangerous, e.g. at concerts, theatres or whatever. Or where there is a risk of EM radiation causing something untoward.

If what you're really saying is that you don't like people who use mobile phones, then you have bigger problems than can be addressed here.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[northstarlarry]

New and untrusted drivers were forced to block large parts of their front and rear viewports? That seems more than slightly silly. Why not put it on the body of the car?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gfreeman]

Safer cars. Got any figures on the number of accidents, as opposed to the number of fatalities?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Archangel Michael]

Most people, who *CLAIM* to belong to a faith, actually are worse than those they berate for not having any.

But what is worse is that we as a society tend to promote the likes of Robertson and Westboro Baptist Church and the Jihadi Muslims.

Nothing like promoting attention seeking hypocritical whores.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Belial6]

Well, there own description of the process. Follow the link.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Richy_T]

Most towns don't get heavy traffic. That's the point.

I'm English living in Tennessee. I'd love to see more public transit but it's simply doesn't make sense except in very limited circumstances. Heck the population of Tennessee is comparable in size to the population of London alone.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[rgviza]

I have to disagree. Idiots cause accidents, not the phone. Using a cell phone is just one way an idiot can be distracted. Other ways include being intoxicated, stuffing your face, playing with the radio, doing your makeup, reading a news paper, fiddling with a GPS.

They should call them "intentionals". You intentionally pick it up, you intentionally take your eyes off the road, and you intentionally text someone.

You can also intentionally speed even though it's raining or snowing and lose control of your vehicle.

There's rarely anything accidental about an "accident". The only real accidents are outside of your control. IE you are driving along and you go into insulin shock due to undiagnosed diabetes, or maybe you have a seizure due to a new brain tumor you didn't know you had. Maybe the car in front of you kicks up a 2x4 that flies through your windshield and hits you (though improperly securing building materials on a truck is also intentional, but on someone else's part, not the poor bastard that got hit with the board)

Common misuse of the word accident is another symptom of a society that refuses to take responsibility for it's actions.

If you hit another car because you are doing something you aren't supposed to, it's not an accident. You caused it by intentionally doing something you weren't supposed to.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Belial6]

You are a hypocrite and in denial. You do have 100% control over whether you drive with your child in your car. Saying otherwise is a complete lie. You may not have the guilt of killing your son because you used a cell phone while driving, but you may get to feel the guild of killing your son because you put him in the car when because you decided to drive to the park instead of walk.

The passenger seat of a car is a wonderful invention. I personally have 5. It is not an evil artifact. There is a time and a place to use it. And it's not while [fill in any unnecessary driving you do].

Your very post shows beyond a doubt that you in fact DO see the cell phone as an evil artifact. Your claim that you don't decide when you put your kid in a car or not isn't even a good lie. You admit that you drive with unnecessary distractions that are known to cause accidents, then call people who drive with smaller distraction moronic. What does that say about you?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[harl]

"the driver feels compelled to maintain a constant I/O of communication because the other person will never know if the driver is comprehending at all times."

You're saying that they will hit a tree rather than shut up for fear of being misunderstood. That's nonsensical.

Holding a conversation is holding a conversation. If you're inattentive during that conversation it's your fault not the techs fault.

What about the head turners who drive. My mother is notorious with this. She'll turn to look at the passenger. This has lead to many instances of near rear ends.

What about talking to a passenger that's not looking at the road or is otherwise engaged with something inside the car? By the cell haters logic you shouldn't do that.

The only common theme with anything in this thread is the driver focusing on something else. This happens with the radio, wild life outside the vehicle, trying to help your kids in the back seat, anything.

Citing cellphones is luddite. If you have a hands free system to be against talking on the cell phone is to be against talking to anyone in the car. Is to be against doing anything but driving in an empty car with no radio.

Inattentive drivers are inattentive. Address them not cell phones.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[2obvious4u]

Really, answering the phone is always in your power - and missing a phone call is not the end of the world.

Hi, have you met my wife.

Some additional points:
1) Laws against cell-phones while driving are stupid. We've had cell-phones since the 1980's. Its not as bad as you're making it out to be.
2) On surface streets I don't use my cell unless its a reference for directions. Then it is a driving tool.
3) I talk on the phone while driving only when I'm on the interstate, once I've finished my merge and am cruising outside of traffic. Before I merge, during my merge, and while I'm in traffic I do not answer my phone.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[2obvious4u]

I'm sorry but you are wrong. I'm learning to play the drums and I can tell you I'm doing three distinct things at one time. It takes practice but you can multi-task in parallel. Learn the left hand, learn the right hand, learn what you're feet should be doing. Then try singing along while doing that and you're adding another level of parallel processing and complexity. Honestly there is a lot of multitasking that you can train yourself to do; but it takes practice. We just haven't been trained to do it.

Second we've had cell phones since the 1980's and cb's and radios for nearly 100 years. We've been driving with them for as long as we've had cars. Why are we just now making all these laws to ban cell-phone usage? Should we also ban two-way radios? Its a rhetorical question, but I'm going to answer it: NO we shouldn't outlaw the use of cellphones while driving. What we should do is educate people on the dangers of driving while talking on cellphones. If there was a cellphone law maybe it should be double or triple fines if you are in an accident while texting/talking on a cell phone. So only those people who do get in accidents are punished and not the 309.05 million people who don't. (310 million us population - 55,000 traffic accidents from "distracted drivers").

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[2obvious4u]

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm saying don't make a law against it, because there are times when using a cellphone and driving are safe and not only safe but needed. I've called 911 while driving many times to report road hazards such as sheets of metal in the road.

Also as a commercially-licensed professional driver, do you pull over to use your CB?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[mcgrew]

Amen to that.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[LanMan04]

Many of you will hate me for saying this, but I firmly believe it should be illegal for the driver to place and/or answer a cell phone while driving. Period!

Are you also prepared to outlaw other in-car distractions?

Audio system
Speaking with passengers
Eating/drinking
Thinking about something besides driving
Being tired/upset/in a bad mood

Otherwise this sounds like a selective "It's easy to catch/observe so let's make it illegal", instead of actually doing an analysis. Just as speeding is easy to catch, but not the chief cause of most accidents.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[trentblase]

Yeah, thanks everyone for playing. To clarify, I was aware of the guy generally, and we were on course to pass by each other. In other words, he was not "immediately in front of me" and there was no collision risk. I never claimed to be able to do threat-assessment on all passers-by, which is in fact why I changed my behavior, as stated in my OP.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[DigiShaman]

drunk drivers are drunk. Address them not alcohol.

Fixed that for ya. You get the idea now?

Talking on cell phones can be just as dangerous. Here's a nice write up on CNET about it.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6090342-7.html

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you also prepared to outlaw other in-car distractions?

Please. I'd start with reading books and the newspaper, brushing your teeth, applying makeup, dance aerobics, lighting cigarettes and smoking, and of course eating and drinking. I've seen all the above cause serious driving problems on at 75 MPH interstate. You think they should be legal? Why?

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I really don't see the problem with taking short, unpressured calls on much of my daily commute, which involves long stretches of empty 2- or 3-lane interstate highways. I risk my life every time I get in the car, and I'm fine with adding a smidgeon more risk when it doesn't affect anyone else. I didn't mind T-9 texting under the same circumstances, either, since I could do that without looking. That stopped when I got a QWERTY smartphone, which is generally more dangerous to operate while driving.

YMMV.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[harl]

dangerous drivers are dangerous. Address them not latest hate fad.

Fixed that for ya. You get the idea now?

Talking on a cell phone is no more dangerous than many other accepted driving activities. People are just focused on the cell phone because it's the new cool thing to hate. Where's the eating and driving study. Where's the talking to a passenger study? Where's the switching tracks study?

Focus where the problem is, the driver.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gullevek]

Yeah, that was my big surprise in Korea. Right when the plane touched down on the tarmac all the Koreans took out their phones checked their messages and started making calls :)

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

On those you don't tend to get into long discussions without breaks because it's not polite to anybody else that might want to share the channel, including the person you're talking to.

You must have much more polite truck drivers than my area. Long conversations are the norm.

it's less likely that you'll be discussing something that will seriously grab your attention and hold it at a wrong moment.

You point still holds, because they are long boring conversations.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[DigiShaman]

I'm only picking on cellphone drivers because that is the *current* problem next to drinking and driving. Both are serious issues. But yes, some new technology or augmentation device could just as easily replace it as dangerous and distracting.

While we could pass laws that specifically go after the driver for any and all things that distract them, I tend to think that's a hard-line attitude to take. In my view, we should be going after current behavior that we now know to be causing traffic issues rather then make wild assumptions without evidence. IE issue-by-issue basis. Now that I think about it, perhaps Texting ought to be looked into as well as it's the latest distraction for drivers.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[peragrin]

well it has been 8 years since I had an accident on any car I have owned. and that one someone hit me while my car was parked and i was asleep.

talking on a cell phone while driving isn't bad, dialing the phone, changing radio stations, adjusting your GPS, turning up the heat are just as distracting. As to do most of those require your eyes be taken off the road ahead.

of course I am capable of walking and talking to two different people with two different conversations at the same time. After that i start to lose details of the conversations. I prefer to avoid it as it is rude to those I am talking with, but sometimes I have no choice.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[BrokenHalo]

Why is this flamebait? If /. moderators are bimbos who do their make-up in cars, I'll hand in my nerd card now.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[chimpo13]

I like how I got modded flamebait. Either someone hasn't visited, or let alone lived in Korea, or a Korean has modpoints.

I have no idea how many teachers answer phones while teaching in class. Koreans drive while on the phone, but they do tend to slow down and take up both lanes.

Maybe I should've said Takeshima is ours!

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[nappingcracker]

I was with you, up until Japan. I don't know where in Japan you live, but I have not found one location yet that people won't use a cell phone. Train, basu or restaurant? Fine with me, it's the cars, motorcycles, and bicycles that scare the hell out of me.

People on cell phones drove me crazy in the U.S. but Japan has taken mobile-distraction-while-operating-machinery to a whole new plane. I'm one of the few people who wear a helmet while riding my bicycle (a skate/snowboard helmet) and I get all kinds of scoffs for it, but 7/10 of the foreigners I talk to here have been hit by a car on their bike (thankfully nothing serious yet) and 4 of them they felt were because of mobile distractions.

Japan has so many fantastic social rituals that make things generally pleasant, but the cell / keitai are not part of that.

The worst part about it is that most of the time people aren't talking, they're texting! Not even looking near the direction they are going! Crazy. Try texting someone while riding a bike in the rain while holding an umbrella and a can of coffee with headphones on, it's the norm in Japan (and will be, for a few generations).

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gullevek]

This really depends on the country. Guess in America/Europe it is a must have.

I can tell you, in Japan you have to fall back on handjob if you do that.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[upuv]

Sorry All I see is an appropriate application of scientific method.

They limited the number of parameters in order to understand the effect when other parameters are altered.

If rigged means well defined then yes it was rigged. I prefer the proper words "well defined".

Sorry still haven't said or found anything to sway me on "driving and using the phone is MORONIC" belief. All you have claimed is that it's rigged. That is your total 100% argument.

It takes me all of 5 seconds to find on google 100's of reports papers articles about how dumb using the phone while driving is. On the flip side I find next to nothing except for rants that say it's OK. No one is fullish enough it seems to report that using a phone while driving improves your abilities.

And to be honest I don't understand why you have such a passion for this belief of yours. Possibly where you live it is still legal to operate a phone while driving. I say enjoy it while you can. Cause those days are numbered.

( I'm going to bet that you can't help yourself. You are so stubborn and have to always be right and have the last say that you will actually respond to this. This is officially a troll post. :) )

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[gullevek]

Yeah, I don't care if people write mail son their keitai in the train or in the bus, or whereever.

I care if they have hyper annoying ring tones and talk on the phone. This is annoying and nobody does this.

Plus nobody will use a cell phone in the cinema or where they shouldn't use it.

That using the phone on your bicycle while you ride it is stupid, yeah, but I do that too ;(

Dunno about driving, haven't seen many use it thought.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Algan]

Wasn't THAT large and it was in the corners of the windshields. But yes, putting it on the body of the car would have made more sense

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect as personal transport became affordable and commonplace people were more willing to live further away from shops and work, and in return got cheaper/bigger houses to live in.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[harl]

Punishing the driver for doing dangerous things is hardline?

*plonk*

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[DigiShaman]

Driving in of itself is dangerous! It's also a privilege, not a legal right.

So if you want to take a hardline approach, ban driving.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[tehcyder]

Normal people don't jump into the street to avoid being within arms reach of other people they pass.

Ah...

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[Belial6]

( I'm going to bet that you can't help yourself. You are so stubborn and have to always be right and have the last say that you will actually respond to this. This is officially a troll post. :) )

Using the, "If you argue with me, you must be wrong" argument shows that you know you are wrong. It is the kind of argument that a child would use.

They limited the number of parameters in order to understand the effect when other parameters are altered.

No, they chose parameters that would mislead the results. What does alchole have to do with distracted driving? Nothing. They specifically make the attempt to inject emotion into their 'study' by associating cell phones with drunk driving. Then after they got their results that showed drunk driving was not dangerous, they told you to ignore that part, and just assume the opposite of their results, so that they could get the results that they were looking for concerning cell phones. That is not scientific.

If they wanted to do a scientific study, they would have compared the cell phone use with something related. They didn't do that though because the results of "Driving while talking on a cell phone is almost as dangerous as driving with a car stereo and almost half as dangerous as driving your kid to soccer practice." wouldn't give people like you what you want.

Sorry still haven't said or found anything to sway me on "driving and using the phone is MORONIC" belief. All you have claimed is that it's rigged. That is your total 100% argument.

Of course you haven't. That is because you are not looking at cell phone use in comparison to all of the 'dangerous' activities you do every day, and seeing that it doesn't even show up on the radar. You feel that your shade of gray is better than anyone else's shade of gray. Every day, every person take many many unnecessary risks. That includes you. You just believe that the ones other people take are 'Moronic'. So, no, it isn't my 100% argument. You just don't acknowledge any argument as existing if it doesn't reinforce your choices of risk.

It takes me all of 5 seconds to find on google 100's of reports papers articles about how dumb using the phone while driving is. On the flip side I find next to nothing except for rants that say it's OK. No one is fullish enough it seems to report that using a phone while driving improves your abilities.

The same could be said about the tenets of Catholicism, but that doesn't mean there really is a invisible old man in the sky who created the earth in 7 days. I have yet to see one single cell phone study that compares cell phone use to common every day driving habits that are considered perfectly fine. Like (I repeat myself again) children in cars, radios in cars, driving without a cell phone while fatigued or tired, driving in areas with few distinguishing features, driving in environments that are extremely well know. Ignoring data that clearly is pertinent to a subject is one way to write a rigged report. In fact 'rigging' something means that you set it up to get the results you want. It far less often means that you plain out lied.

And to be honest I don't understand why you have such a passion for this belief of yours. Possibly where you live it is still legal to operate a phone while driving. I say enjoy it while you can. Cause those days are numbered.

'passion' is certainly hyperbole in an attempt to discredit a reasonable response. But to answer your question. I argue against your religious bias because your fear of new things makes life worse. It is the same reason I would argue against implementing laws that require us all to live an Amish lifestyle. Yes, cell phones while driving are still legal here, and their days may be numbered, but it won't be cause of rational thought. If they are outlawed, it will be because of fraudulent statistics. Ye

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Nah, I'm one of the assholes they date. You obviously aren't though or you'd know that the annoying asshole is not the kind of asshole that attracts women.

Re:Rules 1 through 7 of using a Cell Phone

[The Mighty Buzzard]

re 1: If you've a captive audience, for physical or inconvenience reasons, that has no choice but to hear every word you say (in a train/bus/restaurant for instance), then yes you indeed are impinging on their consciousness.

re 1 again but separately: We are louder, it's neither a secret nor an insult. We're also more willing to become violent over a matter of principle (excepting football matters of course). Because of that, it's very important over on this side of the pond to have a finer appreciation of politeness than you find in most of Europe; it's a survival trait. This could very well be why you don't find things rude that we do.

re 2: Hyperbole. It's a useful language skill. If you need more information on it, see wikipedia or any politician.

first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

1. It is NOT rude to talk on your cell phone in a public place eg on a train or bus or w/e. just like how it isnt rude to have a conversation with a real person there. It pisses me off that on some busses I take they say "please dont use cellphones, it may disturb others" when it doesnt say "people dont talk, it may disturb others". in fact, on a phone there's less talking to be disturbed bya s thre's only 1/2 the conversation.

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. People seem to go far out of their way to become annoyed with people speaking on their cell phone. Sure, there's some rude people out there that are overly loud or obnoxious with their phones, but the majority of people speak normally into their phones and when people don't see the listener of the conversation, it bothers them. Boo hoo.

Re:first rule

[lapsed]

That's an easy one. People talking on cell phones are always the loudest people on the bus/streetcar/subway. If you've been told not to talk on your cell phone, it's because you're being annoying.

Re:first rule

[sjames]

It's not that they're talking on their cellphones that makes us say it's rude IT'S HOW THEY ARE YELLING ON THEIR CELLPHONES SO LOUD THE REST OF US CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER that makes us say it's rude.

Re:first rule

[Hatta]

If you're talking to someone and it's a little noisy, you lean in and speak directly into their ear. If you're talking on a cell phone and it's a little noisy, you speak loudly to compensate. Big difference.

If I can hear what you're saying from the next seat, next table, or whatever, you're talking too loud. Cellphone or not.

Re:first rule

[KlaymenDK]

My own theory on this particular rule is that it's made by people who are not annoyed by the half-conversation per se, but rather that they're the kind of person who likes to eavesdrop, and eavesdropping on half a conversation just isn't as entertaining.

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not that they're talking on their cellphones that makes us say it's rude IT'S HOW THEY ARE YELLING ON THEIR CELLPHONES SO LOUD THE REST OF US CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER that makes us say it's rude.

I was talking to someone who was on their cell and it was one of those that picked up every ambient noise in the room - loudly. they kept saying "what?" WHAT? and I found myself talking louder and louder. Finally, realizing what I was doing, I then just said, "I can hardly hear you and you need to call me back on a land line." and I hung up on them.

My patients for shitty cell phones and connections has gone to zero.

They called back on a real phone.

Re:first rule

[MaskedSlacker]

I find that getting only half the conversation is almost always more entertaining. Less is more.

Re:first rule

[interkin3tic]

It's not that they're talking on their cellphones that makes us say it's rude IT'S HOW THEY ARE YELLING ON THEIR CELLPHONES SO LOUD THE REST OF US CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER that makes us say it's rude.

Try riding in a bus with college students or younger. The ones on their cell phones often are the ones who are being -quieter- than their peers talking to other people right next to them. I can only assume this is because they've become more adapted to talking on a phone than talking face to face.

From my experience, it's often the older crowd that is actually doing much of the cell phone yelling. Judging from my mother, at least some of them are yelling because they don't know how to turn their volume up all the way and/or don't realize that just because they can't hear the other person doesn't mean they themselves can't be heard by the other person. Which is unpleasant for me and anyone who is actually near her.

Re:first rule

[91degrees]

Yet people find people taking on cellphones more irritating than they find people talking to each other. Are you saying they're wrong about what irritates them because I think the irritated person knows better than you what annoys them.

Re:first rule

[residieu]

So complain about the issue that actually bothers you. You're annoyed by LOUD PEOPLE, not by people on cell phones.

Re:first rule

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Are they yelling or do you just notice them more because you see the phone?

I ask because I'm guilty of this. I notice people tapping at their phones, quietly I might add, and the judgements start. This is not something I'm proud of, but it does make me think twice before singling people out.

Re:first rule

[jtownatpunk.net]

It's not talking on your cell phone that's rude. It's TALKING ON YOUR CELL PHONE ABOUT THAT SLUT WHO GAVE YOU GONORRHEA LAST WEEK AND... and I had to cut off the rest of that because the slashdot filter won't let me have that many caps in a single post BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE I'M YELLING.

Re:first rule

[oldhack]

What you say? You're breaking up.

Re:first rule

[HTH NE1]

I find that getting only half the conversation is almost always more entertaining. Less is more.

Well it probably is déjà vu. It sounds like it.

Re:first rule

[fiannaFailMan]

1. It is NOT rude to talk on your cell phone in a public place eg on a train or bus or w/e. just like how it isnt rude to have a conversation with a real person there. It pisses me off that on some busses I take they say "please dont use cellphones, it may disturb others" when it doesnt say "people dont talk, it may disturb others". in fact, on a phone there's less talking to be disturbed bya s thre's only 1/2 the conversation.

You are completely, absolutely, positively 100% incorrect. Studies have been done to prove it. It is WAY more irritating when you can only hear one side of the conversation, irritation amplified by the need that people have to raise their voices on a cellphone since they don't have the feedback that old analog landlines had. If you're not irritated by Incosiderate Cell Phone Man, you, sir, are in a small minority.

Incidentally, from TFA:

* 1. Lower your voice when taking calls in public.
* 2. Avoid personal topics when others can hear you.
* 3. Avoid taking calls when you're already engaged in a face-to-face conversation.
* 4. If you do take a call, ask permission of the people with you.
* 5. Avoid texting during a face-to-face conversations.
* 6. Put your phone's ringer on "silent" in theaters and restaurants.
* 7. Don't light up your phone's screen in a dark theater.
* 8. Hang up and drive.
* 9. Acknowledge the delay
* 10. Don't use Google Voice call screening with family and close friends
* 11. Don't blame the other guy for a dropped call
* 12. Avoid looking things up during a conversation
* 13. Be mindful about Facebook tagging
* 14. Avoid inappropriate profile pictures

At first glance I thought this article would be stating the obvious, but it's got some good stuff when you get past 8. Acknowledging the delay and reassuring the other person that you're not talking over the top of him is a great start, although I must say I haven't had that problem so much since I switched from Verizon. The delay on that service was so bad I ended up dreading every call.

Re:first rule

[sjames]

It's that they are yelling. When I ride the train, I don't even look up from my book unless someone is either clearly trying to get my attention or yelling too loud for me to hear myself think.

Without exception, the latter turn out to be on their cellphones.

Interestingly, even though they won't LET me not hear their half of the conversation, they get amazingly ticked off if I throw in my two cents.

Re:first rule

[theJML]

And don't forget that yelling is the universal way to make someone understand what you're saying. Even if they don't speak English you can just raise your voice a bit and they'll understand...

or at least that's what people seem to think.

Re:first rule

[Ultra64]

If my points hadn't expired I'd mod you up for the red dwarf reference.

Re:first rule

[Low Ranked Craig]

The problem is that people talking on a cell phone generally speak much louder than someone who is talking to a person next to them.

Re:first rule

[crispin_bollocks]

It's partly because people don't understand the phone's noise cancellation feature, and partly because the feature doesn't work worth a damn. I can remember (distant past) hams with vox setups who said "uhhh" all the time to keep the mike active. It's a similar problem.

Re:first rule

[mikael]

It seems to be more the information content of the conversation, in particular, stating the obvious. On the top deck of a bus, a teenager had just got her new mobile phone and was communicating with her friend who was apparently on another bus heading in the other direction "I'm just passing the shops now, passing the school now, yeah, I can see the supermarket, you can see the office block? I can see your bus. Can you see me? Yeah, I'm waving. See you in five minutes."

Or there's the conversation at the snack shop. "Yeah, I'm at the sandwich bar. There's cheese and pickle, onion, garlic and chutney, BLT, or tuna and cucumber. You want the onion and garlic? OK. What about Chardonnay, what does she want? Oh the BLT. Got that. Oh wait a minute, it looks like a rat been chewing at that one, I'll put it back and get another one."

Funniest one was when I was the airport and there was a guy with a mobile phone he had cupped between his head and his hand. I couldn't see the phone, but he was waving his other hand around. It looked he was planning to invade Europe.

Re:first rule

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Speaking loudly to someone next to you is also rude. This doesn't mean that speaking loudly into a cell phone is not rude -- and despite what you think, you're *probably* talking loudly. More so than you would on a land line. I don't know whether or not it's necessary, but I think this a natural function of modern cell phones: your mouth is several inches in front of where you assume the mic to be - where it would be for a land line. Maybe kids growing up on cell phones now won't have this problem ...

That aside, let's say it's not so. Let's say you are the one in 100 exception. It's also rude in a completely different way. Instead of having a conversation with somebody next to you, you're talking on a device that everyone around you *knows* is sensitive to sound. By the simple act of speaking on a cell phone, you oblige them to become quiet if they don't want to be "rude" and interfere with your conversation. Placing that kind of social obligation on someone is rude, no matter whether you're talking loudly or not.

It gets even worse if you're engaged with someone. Your phone rings while you're int he middle of a conversation - and like a well-trained dog you salivate ... erm, answer at the sound of the bell. Now you're sending a clear message to the people you had previously been speaking with: "This conversation you are having with me is far less important to me than what this faceless stranger has to say. Now sod off and be quiet while I talk to said stranger."

Re:first rule

[ScrewMaster]

It's not that they're talking on their cellphones that makes us say it's rude IT'S HOW THEY ARE YELLING ON THEIR CELLPHONES SO LOUD THE REST OF US CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER that makes us say it's rude.

True, and if you'd like an excellent example of why a new cellphone etiquette is needed, check out this very educational YouTube video on the subject.

Re:first rule

[ScrewMaster]

And don't forget that yelling is the universal way to make someone understand what you're saying. Even if they don't speak English you can just raise your voice a bit and they'll understand...

or at least that's what people seem to think.

So true. Of course, what they ultimately take away from that experience is that the speaker is a loudmouthed idiot.

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it's typically the ethnic crowd....

"YO HOMIE DAWG WAZZUP? HE HE YEAH!" STFU and pull your pants up!

Re:first rule

[ScrewMaster]

So complain about the issue that actually bothers you. You're annoyed by LOUD PEOPLE, not by people on cell phones.

No, I'm pretty much annoyed by people on cell phones whether they're talking or not. They tend not to be aware of what's going on around them, force others to step out of their way to avoid them as if they're some kind of royalty, and rather than admit when they've been acting badly will instead cop an imperious attitude (you know, the old "I'm on the PHONE how dare you interrupt me!" look.)

Hell, I was leaving the grocery store parking lot in my car, got thumped by this woman in her fifties who was just rambling on a mile-a-minute on her cell phone. So, I get out of my car, check my rear bumper for damage and then went over to the driver's side window of her car. She completely ignored me in favor of her phone conversation. I tapped on the window, and she rolled it down and said angrily, "What? WHAT? Can't you see I'm on the phone?!!" to which I said, "You just hit my car." She said, "No I didn't", rolled the window back up and went back to that brain-sapping device jammed up against the side of her head. Fortunately there wasn't any damage to my vehicle so I just shook my head and drove off.

A few days later, I was sitting in the parking lot out in front of our local drug store, when another car pulled up next to me. The cell-phone-abusing female behind the wheel was flapping her lips at an incredible rate, and in the process of getting out of her car slammed her door into the passenger side of my car. She DIDN''T EVEN NOTICE. I'd had enough of that kind of nonsense at that point, so I got out and said, "You just dinged my car!" Her response? "No I didn't." I said, "LOOK!", to which she replied "That was there already." There could have been a five foot hole in the side of my car and she wouldn't have noticed it. That time I called the cops and filled out a police report.

People on cell phones can be DICKs. Period.

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the microphone amplifies your voice so there is no need to raise it but in fact you can talk softer than if you were talking to a person next to you. Why some people scream into their phones is beyond me, it is completely unnecessary.

Re:first rule

[Omestes]

And don't forget, a lot of the time they are talking (screaming) about things that really have no business being aired in public.

About once a month I get to overhear a fat person screaming about their sex life (and sometimes, better... their VDs) into their little phones. Most of the time they give me dirty looks when I stare at them, as if their conversation is private,

The other 90% of cell-calls are generally "I'm bored, I'm going to talk" types of conversations, where people scream exceedingly banal snippets of their boring lives at other people in the grim hopes that someone cares. "So, I went to the store... aaaand.... bought cheese.... aaaaand... bread... aaaand... the casheir was rude.... aaaaand... the tabloid said that Brad Pitt is cheating on Angie.... aaaand.... now I'm on the bus.... aaaannd.... I think Billy gave me ghonorea..."

Re:first rule

[GlassHeart]

You may also observe that most complaints against impoliteness can be answered childishly with "boo hoo." Whether you agree or not, etiquette is based on other people's feelings, so if your behavior is bothering other people, you are in fact being rude. We're not talking about a moral failing, but a social one, like slurping your soup or writing your email in caps.

If your instinct is to answer "boo hoo" to these complaints, then etiquette is simply not for you.

Re:first rule

[royallthefourth]

Try riding in a bus with college students or younger. The ones on their cell phones often are the ones who are being -quieter- than their peers talking to other people right next to them. I can only assume this is because they've become more adapted to talking on a phone than talking face to face.

I'm 24 and I'll tell you it's because before I had a cell phone, I had experienced the loud middle aged people on phones and decided I didn't want to look like that!

Re:first rule

[clanrat]

Order yourself a nice high power jammer from dealextreme and make the problem go away. The best part is that the cellular networks are already somewhat inherently unreliable, so when you force someone's call to drop, they just accept it. It never even crosses their mind that someone could be deliberately interfering. I've heard that it's very satisfying to see the loudmouth in the train car suddenly shut up and scowl at a phone that now displays no service.

Re:first rule

[sjames]

Good deal! It's time to train some attack squirrels!

Re:first rule

[indiechild]

Does anyone know why mobile phones have so little feedback compared to most landline phones? Is it a technical obstacle, or do manufacturers just do it for the hell of it? If it's such an important issue, why do we still get it so wrong?

Re:first rule

[newdsfornerds]

That's a fact. It's because the cell does not send your voice to your earpiece. With a landline phone, you can hear your own voice in your earpiece, which is reassuring. Not so with cell phones.

Re:first rule

[newdsfornerds]

Patience, not patients. The latter is what doctors have.

Re:first rule

[newdsfornerds]

I said, "MOVE ZIG!"

Re:first rule

[newdsfornerds]

The best part is when the cell phone shouter shouts his email address or phone number for all to hear.

Re:first rule

[RealGrouchy]

I agree. I spend a lot of time in coffeeshops, and many people complain when someone's talking on a cell phone, despite plenty of others talking just as loud with other people across the table.

- RG>

Re:first rule

[petermgreen]

I suspect it's because the people designing the phones don't really think about it and/or consider it a defect.

Conventional analogue phones have a lot of "feedback" (signal passing from the microphone to the earpeice) because the circuits in them that split incoming and outgoing signals are somewhere between non-existent and poor.

Digital phones (whether cell, ISDN or VOIP) don't have "feedback" unless the manufacturer explicitly adds it so many of them have none of it at all and if they do have it "artificially" the manufacturer is conservative on the ammount.

Re:first rule

[geminidomino]

People on cell phones can be DICKs. Period.

I think it would be more fair to say that "People who are DICKS can use cell phones."

Re:first rule

[geminidomino]

And make sure that, when you take that route, you wear a T-shirt that says "Yes, I'm the self-righteous prick interfering with your calls" so that the other people present can easily find you to show you the gratitude you deserve.

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just that, but when you hear two random people in a conversation, it's pretty easy to filter out without thinking about it. For me it's hard to ignore 1/2 of a conversation because that filtering part of my brain keeps saying "hey, that person is saying things/asking questions and no one is responding, could they be talking to me and I wasn't paying attention?". Even though I concsiously know they aren't, as soon as my attention wanders I seem to have to go through the same thing again, forcing me to actively ignore a person rather than passively.

Re:first rule

[dontmakemethink]

* 1. Lower your voice when taking calls in public.

Agreed. It's much more fun to talk loudly in public when you're faking being on the phone.

* 2. Avoid personal topics when others can hear you.

Definitely more fun when faking, i.e. "They're more like warts, but hairy. What can I do? I've got a date on Friday!"

* 3. Avoid taking calls when you're already engaged in a face-to-face conversation.

Take fake calls when avoiding face-to-face conversations

* 4. If you do take a call, ask permission of the people with you.

"Do you mind if I pretend to take a call to avoid talking to you?"

* 5. Avoid texting during a face-to-face conversations.

Disagree. The fact that you continue the conversation while texting shows true devotion.

* 6. Put your phone's ringer on "silent" in theaters and restaurants.

Unless you have a "fire alarm" ringtone

* 7. Don't light up your phone's screen in a dark theater.

Unless you're substituting it for a cigarette lighter during a romantic power-balad

* 8. Hang up and drive.

Unless you're making an important call and have nowhere to go

* 9. Acknowledge the delay

...........what?

* 10. Don't use Google Voice call screening with family and close friends

Beats telling them up front that you're screwing with them

* 11. Don't blame the other guy for a dropped call

Unless you hung up on purpose

* 12. Avoid looking things up during a conversation

Unless you've got a good vantage point up your co-worker's skirt

* 13. Be mindful about Facebook tagging

Remember the friend's tag goes on the dog's ass, and the dog's ass tag goes on the friend's face

* 14. Avoid inappropriate profile pictures

Only jerk off to the sexy ones

Re:first rule

[houghi]

The first question I, fiends and family ask is: can you talk now? And sometimes the first thing I ask is "Is it impartand?" If not, the conversation is over after a "I'll call you back." and if it is importand, when I am on my cellphone, I excuse myself to the others around me and stand somewhere else.

I even walk away from my desk if have a personal call at the office. Almost everybody does that where I work.

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

You are completely, absolutely, positively 100% incorrect. Studies have been done to prove it.

100 incorrect? You really think a study can prove something so subjective as how annoying something is. And you didn't even cite the study!

gtfo

Re:first rule

[ByOhTek]

Add to that: turn off the damn screech in walkie-talkie mode. Radios (walkie-talkies), or at least professional ones, only do that when they have low batteries.

It's just damn annoying, and it only serves the purpose to "brag" that you have a cell phone.

Sorry, almost all of the people who want a cell phone, have one. What next? bragging to nearby that you have air to breath, while they are breathing the same air?

Sorry, no car analogies.

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. I think there's nothing wrong with speaking in public. Some friendly chatter can liven up a bus or train trip enormously, and communication between humans is a vital part of our social interactions. Who knows, you might even learn something from the conversation.

In fact, I would even go so far as to say that public chatter is one of the many safeguards for democracy. An ad-hoc independent, always on, communication network keeps people aware of what's happening in their immediate vicinity. If public chatter were to become taboo, it would make it that much easier for malicious parties to gain control of us.

Re:first rule

[jahudabudy]

I think #14 is incorrect, tho. How is it rude for me to post whatever the hell picture I want on MY facebook profile? If YOU find it inappropriate, and are concerned it might pop up at the wrong moment on your phone, don't sync to it. It's absurd to expect ME to conform to YOUR standards in an aspect of my life that you can choose to have nothing to do with if it offends you. Hell, how do I even know what you might find inappropriate?

Re:first rule

[Anonymous Coward]

You get the same feedback as when you talk in person. If you need more, it's because you've been conditioned by land lines. Just uncondition yourself.

Re:first rule

[tehcyder]

That time I called the cops and filled out a police report.

Goddammit, I was sure you were going to end that story with "so that time I just emptied my 9mm into her face, and I'm now sitting here on death row."

Like opium pipes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cell phones should only be used in the privacy of your own home, and public use should be prosecuted.

Not just cell phones

[Kell Bengal]

It's not just cellphones. All technology has an integral etiquette, from cars to scissors. If you think about it, you can find examples for pretty much anything on your desk, and can probably come up with good reasons for why we have the social mores that we do. Everything from not chewing on other people's pencils to not touching someone else's monitor screen.

Cellphones only draw our attention because they're fairly new technology (compared to, say, pencils) and the offenses commitable with a phone can be extremely annoying and in some cases deadly.

This is a much broader topic if you take the time to look into it.

Re:Not just cell phones

[fiannaFailMan]

It's not just cellphones. All technology has an integral etiquette, from cars to scissors. If you think about it, you can find examples for pretty much anything on your desk, and can probably come up with good reasons for why we have the social mores that we do. Everything from not chewing on other people's pencils to not touching someone else's monitor screen.

Cellphones only draw our attention because they're fairly new technology (compared to, say, pencils) and the offenses commitable with a phone can be extremely annoying and in some cases deadly.

This is a much broader topic if you take the time to look into it.

Aeroplanes are another. If your zone or row number hasn't been called yet, then get back from the freaking gate already and stop looking like I have to stand behind you in a line! Jeez! People who crowd the gate before their number has been called are up there with people who drive too slow in the fast lane.

Re:Not just cell phones

[LWATCDR]

Car Stereos I think win the rude device award. If I can hear your stereo in my car with the windows up, ac on, and over my stereo it is TOO freaking loud.
Throw in playing songs with R rated lyrics so loud that you can not escape the strings of profanities and you have a recipe for bad manners.

Re:Not just cell phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are flawed analogies: car etiquette is largely mandated by law, and people do not walk around in the street with scissors or pencils in their hands.

Anyway, for most not-new things we already have etiquette, so the topic of cellphone etiquette is indeed quite narrow.

Re:Not just cell phones

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Everything from not chewing on other people's pencils to not touching someone else's monitor screen.

Am I the only one that read this with one of my coworker's pens hanging out of my mouth?

Re:Not just cell phones

[Kell Bengal]

Car etiquette is not necessarily mandated by law at all. A commenter above mentioned car stereos. I would also include pointless revving of engines, car parking faux pas (like spot stealing). And even if ridiculous car mods aren't poor etiquette, they're certainly bad taste!

Re:Not just cell phones

[geminidomino]

I usually don't have that problem. Far more frequent is the $400 Hyundai with the $3000 system in it that actually makes my teeth vibrate against each other.

Re:Not just cell phones

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Car Stereos I think win the rude device award. If I can hear your stereo in my car with the windows up, ac on, and over my stereo it is TOO freaking loud.
Throw in playing songs with R rated lyrics so loud that you can not escape the strings of profanities and you have a recipe for bad manners.

Nope, still cell-phones. I don't know if it's just where I live but lately youths (mostly of the "ethnic" variety) have been using their cell phones as mini portable stereo's. Nothing worse than being stuck on a train with some idiot playing middle-eastern music over a tinny sounding phone speaker. Just when you thought cell phones couldn't get more annoying. At least in a car you can let them pass and you're rid of them.

Re:Not just cell phones

[LWATCDR]

Could be the area. Where I live there is no real mass transit. But I have been stuck in traffic for what seems like forever with boom boom boom going off. Or worse at a 7-11 and they park their cars but leave the stereo blasting. I don't have kids but I can just imagine taking a 3 year old with me to get some milk and them hearing that!

Re:Not just cell phones

[2obvious4u]

When I was younger I used to do exactly that just to piss people like you off. I've mostly outgrown that stage of life, but when someone pulls up next to me like that I roll down my windows and listen to what they are playing.

If you are in south Florida and you have a problem with it you need to move to a different location. It is part of the culture down there.

Phones.

[Reason58]

People who speak twice as loudly on the phone as they do in person bug the hell out of me. Also, people who pull their phones out during a movie to text, seemingly unaware that their phone is like a laser straight into our eyeballs.

Re:Phones.

[trentblase]

When the hell are phone manufacturers going to provide microphone feedback so you can hear your own voice in the earpiece? It's not like it's hard. (And I'm not talking about the half-second-delay echo of my own voice that I sometimes get on AT&T)

Re:Phones.

[lottameez]

I've stopped going to theater; I just get redbox instead...Why pay $10 so I can be distracted by self-absorbed morons who can't go 20 minutes without checking their messages? Yes, it's a pet peeve. One of many.

Re:Phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

When it becomes not annoying as hell. I had an old phone that used to do that and it bugged the crap outta me.

On the flip side, people on the other end of cell phone conversations need to tell people to speak quieter instead of just adjusting the volume. It's amazing to me that people are so good at ignoring all of the significant enhancements in microphone technology in the last 30 years. I think people just assume if it's hard for them to hear themselves talk in an area, it's hard for the person not in the area, which is not always true. I also think it's a natural thing for people to assume because the phone is small they have to speak up.

Re:Phones.

[Bob-o-Matic!]

When the hell are phone manufacturers going to provide microphone feedback so you can hear your own voice in the earpiece? It's not like it's hard. (And I'm not talking about the half-second-delay echo of my own voice that I sometimes get on AT&T)

Exactly. Also, if the phone detects that your voice is much much louder than the ambient noise it should howl in the speaker's ear. Rudeness should exhibit self-inductance.

If the person on the other end can't hear you then they can reposition their handset or increase the volume.

Re:Phones.

[BitZtream]

I hear this, but unless you're sitting right next to someone I can't see how you can really even see it. If its laying in the lap of the guy in front of you, you'd have to be 2.5m tall before you could see it.

A few seats down your row and its going to be out of your field of vision if you're watching the movie anyway.

Re:Phones.

[Obfuscant]

Why pay $10 so I can be distracted by self-absorbed morons who can't go 20 minutes without checking their messages?

If you are paying more attention to the people around you who are looking at their cellphones than to the movie, don't blame the people around you, blame your choice of movie.

I can't imagine why you'd be distracted by my pulling my cellphone out of my pocket and looking at it, unless you're ADHD or something. In that case, stay home.

Re:Phones.

[izomiac]

An alternative would be to increase the volume of the second party to match how loudly you speak. So if you must shout because it's noisy, then the other person's voice is amplified to match. Conversely, if you're whispering in a quiet room, the volume is reduced. It could be marketed as a feature.

Re:Phones.

[Antony-Kyre]

How anyone can carry a 'conversation' on a cell phone next to any other person is beyond me.

About the movie theatre thing, people should just turn them off. It seems rude to be doing other things when people are there to enjoy a movie. Of course, one fun thing one might do would be to challenge the movie theatre. Like, if someone is using the cell, even if just texting, during the movie, get up, seek a manager, and ask for a refund for the movie for permitting such a thing to go on. Make a big deal about it, and see how far it goes.

Re:Phones.

[adolf]

Go talk on a conventional, passive landline phone, sometime. Foldback into the earpiece is an integral part of that technology, and it works: You can hear if you're distorted or scratchy, or muffled because you've positioned things wrongly, and if you can't hear yourself at all due to background noise you know you might want to speak up because they can't hear you, either.

It's all psychological. And people talking on the phone just want the other party to hear them clearly -- I cannot believe that they're all just purposeless loudspeaking assholes. But without any way for them to hear how they themselves sound, it's a crapshoot that's easiest won by just talking louder.

Re:Phones.

[Nimey]

Because of the bright moving light in my peripheral vision, you self-absorbed shitbag.

Re:Phones.

[the_weasel]

Oh you are that GUY.

      Die.

Seriously, if you can't see how it might be distracting for the person behind you when you pull out you nice bright shiny phone and start messing with it in a theater, you either lack basic intelligence, or eyes. The other possibility is that you are trolling - if so, grow up a little.

I kind of hope you are trolling, because I keep hoping the human race can't possibly contain members as stupid as you sound right now.

Re:Phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

The story got the reason that people speak loudly into cell phones wrong. The real reason is that because of low volume people hear of the other side of the conversation. Whether it's instinctual or learned, we subconsciously raise the volume of our voice when we can't hear the other person. This makes sense in bars, clubs and other places where our voices are competing with ambient noise.

But cell phones are different. They have weak speakers so we have difficulty hearing, but the natural compensating reaction is pointless since they have microphones that are plenty sensitive. People who speak overly loudly on cell phones are people who haven't learned to consciously override their natural behavior.

That only explains the why...it doesn't make them any less annoying.

Re:Phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

I usually just talk normally (or even more quiet than I usually do, at least from my perspective) when I'm in a noisy place talking on my phone. You'd be lucky if you could hear me at all, even if you were sitting right next to me. Of course, that could be just one of my many ninja traits. XD

If the person I'm talking to is having a hard time hearing me, I'll raise my voice slightly until they can hear, but never enough that I can hear myself over the noise. If I have to get that loud, I'll either wait until it's less noisy, or I'll move to another area. Then again, if it's that noisy, I probably wouldn't notice my phone ringing (I usually leave it quiet or on vibrate). ;-)

Re:Phones.

[Builder]

No idea why this got modd'd -1 Troll... The poster has a good argument as to why he should be allowed to look at his glowing cell phone screen at the movies.

Shouldn't it have been '-1, Utter Cunt' ?

Re:Phones.

[dontmakemethink]

Microphone feedback isn't there because it IS hard. Cel phones can't be nearly so small without ganging several components into one chip. Analog signal from the microphone comes in, and a bandwidth-limited dynamic-expanded noise-reduced data-compressed GSM-encrypted digital signal comes out. Similarly the amplifier to the speaker is ganged to the GSM decoder, data-expander, dynamics-compressor, and DAC. Adding voice feedback means complete chip redesigns.

But wait there's more! If the feedback signal is analog, it will be noisy from the phone's unavoidable massive EM and RF interference. Raise your hand if you've ever heard the "eck eck eck eck eck" noise a cel phone makes over the mic at karaoke. Multiply that by about 100.

If the feedback signal is digital, it will require the whole circuit to be redesigned with a master clock to regulate the timings of digital operations in the various chips since the data flow will be parallel instead of serial. Or you could put memory buffers at all points so the chips can chase each other instead of locking, but then you get latency. Oh wait, I forgot to mention the chips already have integrated buffers... my bad.

Call in the next five minutes and we'll throw in additional battery drain!

Re:Phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I bought a cellphone jammer.

It's illegal to use in my country, but I don't care. It's about the size of an old 'brick' mobile, and at the press of a button kills all mobile phones in a 10m radius. It's made the little things in life like waiting for a plane, trying to sleep on a long train journey, dining at a restaurant or watching a moovie in a cinema bearable again.

Call me selfish if you like, but I only ever use it if someone is being an asshole nearby.

Re:Phones.

[davidsinn]

HTC does right now. I have a VZW Touch Pro 2(AKA ATT Tilt 2 or HTC Rhodium) It does provide feedback to me. I also can easily tell if the wind is too loud for the other party to hear me and can turn my head to compensate. My wife hates it but I got used to it quickly and have grown to like it.

Re:Phones.

[trentblase]

Wow, those are some big words. I guess you win. Except for the fact that most of what you said is bullshit. Either do analog summation after the DAC or do digital mixing on-chip. None of this is hard and none of it requires a chip-wide redesign. Or you could do it in software, depending on the design of the phone. Battery drain? Go back to trolling high school electronics club forums.

Re:Phones.

[dontmakemethink]

Analog summation requires an analog line running the length of the phone, which cannot be effectively shielded against the massive interference imposed by all digital circuitry, especially the transceiver, since all systems share the same power source and there's no true ground other than the battery's negative terminal.

Digital mixing requires that the microphone output and incoming cellular signal be in sync, either by a master clock to eliminate jitter or by some form of chasing to smooth out jitter, which would introduce significant latency. Both methods will draw on the battery, especially chasing, not to mention the draw from the extra speaker output of two voices rather than one.

In any event, there are no accommodations made for the feedback signal in the ganged chips, so it would require a complete redesign of the input and output chips, and the circuit paths between them.

Also noise reduction is done digitally, so the analog feedback signal will not benefit from it, and you'll be amplifying background noise, plus add the electrical noise, you won't be able to hear the person on the other end except under ideal circumstances. And when a text comes in mid-call - "ECK ECK ECK ECK ECK"

Re:Phones.

[tehcyder]

Mod parent +1 "best new moderation category".

not sure which is worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Cellphones or 'social crusaders' who think they know what's best for everyone else. I think we have too many of them now in places of power. This is a far greater concern for me than the occasional annoying cellphone. The last thing we need is yet another stupid rule to obey that does little but reward over-sensitivity.

Re:not sure which is worse

[idontgno]

So you've had run-ins with people offended by how you use your cellphone?

The last thing we need is yet another stupid rule to obey that does little but reward over-sensitivity.

The rules are already there. They always have been. They're unspoken, like most rules of polite behavior. People who break them are really never punished, just labeled "rude" and properly ostracized. Perhaps confronted, but you never know where the line between "rude" and "sociopathic" lies in any given person, and it's not always worth risking unprovoked assault.

Nope, I am forced to conclude that inappropriate and rude use of a cellphone is far worse.

Re:not sure which is worse

[Anonymous Coward]

So you've had run-ins with people offended by how you use your cellphone?

No. I have one, but it's for emergency use only. I'm far more concerned with social crusaders who want to reward oversensitivity with new conventions, or worse, laws. If someone's too loud on their phone, I ask them to keep it down. For the most part, I get immediate compliance. No need for new 'social etiquettes' (draconian nanny law).

Nope, I am forced to conclude that inappropriate and rude use of a cellphone is far worse.

You might, until some groupthink decides something YOU do is a 'threat' because they're too scared to ask you to stop/change it. Honestly, I'm not a fan of cellphones. I think they're trojans that get people used to the idea of nickel-and-dimed network services and surveillance, but that doesn't make me want to support a social crusade that rewards the insecure.

Re:not sure which is worse

[poopdeville]

I'm far more concerned with social crusaders who want to reward oversensitivity with new conventions, blah blah blah

Oh, the irony.

Re:not sure which is worse

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone's too loud on their phone, I ask them to keep it down. For the most part, I get immediate compliance. No need for new 'social etiquettes' (draconian nanny law).

Google "etiquette", and figure out how and why you are wrong. It is obvious to everyone else...

Re:not sure which is worse

[LWATCDR]

The problem of social crusaders only crops up when people ignore the unspoken rules of society and good manners. A good example are car stereo sound laws.
It seems stupid to have to pass a law but not a week goes by when I do not hear a car stereo blasting so loud that I can hear it in my car with the windows up, ac one, and my stereo on. It is only when too many people act like idiots that people start to support laws to enforce manners and common sense.

Re:not sure which is worse

[mdwh2]

I was once on a train where someone was talking quietly on the phone behind me, and then someone came up and suggested they stop, phrasing it in the indirect way of "When I make a phone call, I go to the end of the carriage by the door".

To be fair, we were in the designated "quiet" coach. On the other hand, I was more disturbed by him, and was tempted to say "When I want to complain to someone, I go to the end of the carriage..."

Re:not sure which is worse

[Anonymous Coward]

In the quiet coach, he's lucky not to have got a punch in the throat. Really, people, having your cell phone on in the quiet coach? Fuckers ...

You don't need to yell into your phone.

[PhantomHarlock]

I've noticed that people needlessly talk very loud on celphones. People underestimate how well modern cel phones will isolate your voice from medium-noisy background pratter. People automatically compensate for the person not being in the room without even thinking about it.

If I'm in a public place such as a casual restaurant and I need to take a brief call, I answer in very low tones and the person on the other end can understand me just as well. My tone of voice is indistinguishable from other conversations happening in the area, and in fact is usually quieter.

Try it sometime as an experiment if you are used to speaking up on the phone, you'll find you can be heard just as well. I have a friend who literally doubles her volume on the phone. It's quite amusing and I have to remind her that she's doing it.

Also, if you have any kind of music as your ringtone (except for the harp sound on the iPhone) you should be shot. A phone should sound like a phone, not a disco.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[igadget78]

I've noticed that people needlessly talk very loud on celphones. People underestimate how well modern cel phones will isolate your voice from medium-noisy background pratter. People automatically compensate for the person not being in the room without even thinking about it.

WHATS THAT HONEY? YOU WANT ME TO PICK UP TAMPONS ON THE WAY HOME?

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[ignavusinfo]

s/(I've noticed that people needlessly talk).+/$1./

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[CAFED00D]

Most landline phones echo your voice into the earpiece. Cell phones do not do this, so many people raise their voice to compensate for the fact that they can't hear their own voice coming from the phone. Still, it's very annoying.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[assemblyronin]

If I'm in a public place such as a casual restaurant and I need to take a brief call, I answer in very low tones and the person on the other end can understand me just as well. My tone of voice is indistinguishable from other conversations happening in the area, and in fact is usually quieter.

This is perfectly acceptable. My choice is to sometimes (depending on the restaurant and situation) as a courtesy to the people at the same table, excuse myself and go outside or stand in the hallway next to the restrooms.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Monkeedude1212]

Also, if you have any kind of music as your ringtone (except for the harp sound on the iPhone) you should be shot. A phone should sound like a phone, not a disco.

IMO, I think Ringtones are the least annoying part about a phone, its just their volume that gets annoying. Much like someone talking too loud I don't want their ringtone to disrupt me either. However, if someone has a rap/punk/rock/pop/techno/classical/retro song for their ringtone, I have no issue with it whatsoever.

Then again - I'm sort of a people watcher. Sitting on the bus I'll look at people (trying not to stare of course) and figure out as much about that person as I possibly can. So if I'm in the middle of deciphering the style of a cute girl who is reading a teen novel, and her ringtone is Eminem's latest hit - I know that much more about her. I also know to avoid her in the future. =P

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[interkin3tic]

Also, if you have any kind of music as your ringtone (except for the harp sound on the iPhone) you should be shot. A phone should sound like a phone, not a disco.

Aw, come on, EVERYONE loves Beyonce's "All the single ladies!"

One of the best videos of all time!

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[idontgno]

IMO, I think Ringtones are the least annoying part about a phone, its just their volume that gets annoying. Much like someone talking too loud I don't want their ringtone to disrupt me either. However, if someone has a rap/punk/rock/pop/techno/classical/retro song for their ringtone, I have no issue with it whatsoever.

So, if someone's cell starts beltin' out Achy Breaky Heart, you do have an issue? Then J. Random OldDude probably has an issue with rap/punk/rock/pop/techno/classical/retro. Or one of those.

Besides, even if the ringtone is based on something I like, why is it a favor to me to hear a truncated, low-fidelity, looping fragment of it?

Sorry, a ringtone is a signal to the user of the cellphone that they have a call or message. Anything else is an abuse of the concept.

It is not a personal statement to every unfortunate within earshot, because in truth they don't give a rat's metric ass about you as a person, or about any statement you wish to make about yourself. You're a part of the scenery, and if your ringtone is loud, you're an annoying part of the scenery.

I'm 6'7" (2m to the US Customary challenged) tall, but I don't run around yelling I'm really tall. I like Metallica and Alan Parsons Project, but I don't blast either out of my cellphone. I really enjoy the occasional dram, but I don't slosh Laphroaig at folks with me at the bar because I think it's vitally important for me to make a personal statement about my superior tastes in whisky.

Sometimes I think the entire "Buy this ringtone and customize your phone to represent YOU" scam is one of the telecom industry's biggest worthless marketing success.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, if you have any kind of music as your ringtone (except for the harp sound on the iPhone) you should be shot. A phone should sound like a phone, not a disco.

I'm going to have to disagree there, on a couple of counts. My phone doesn't have any ringtones that sound like a phone ringing, and the default is the generic Nokia tune which annoys the hell out of me. The best I can do is pick a song that I like and is unlikely to be in use by anyone else.

And, well, it often amuses me what music people select for their ringtones. Sometimes it annoys me if it's a song I dislike, but it's honestly not ringing long enough for it to be worth getting worked up over.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[martin-boundary]

How do you verify that what you've figured out about them is true?

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[BitZtream]

Most people speak louder because they can't hear the person talking on the other end, not because of their ambient noise directly or the fact that the person isn't there.

They can't hear the person on the other end, so they instinctually speak louder thinking they it needs to be done so the other person can hear them.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[mdwh2]

I don't use ringtones myself. But I've never understood why the high pitched repeated alarm shrill of a traditional phone is considered less alarming or annoying. Indeed, the very nature of the noise was designed to get people's attention.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[dangitman]

I'd much rather a song I hate being played at a reasonable volume, than a shrill phone ringing sound played at a high volume.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[ericfitz]

Misdiagnosis.

It's not because people underestimate noise cancellation. It's because cell phones lack sidetone.

Telephone manufacturers have known for a century that sidetone is necessary for people to regulate their voice volume effectively.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[BJ_Covert_Action]

A phone should sound like a phone, not a disco.

Thanks for your opinion. Luckily I don't have to agree. Frankly I don't think there is a problem with using music as a ringtone. In fact, I rather enjoy folk who do that because, when their phone goes off, I get some insight into their taste of music and maybe their personality. If I am on a first date with a girl, and she is acting very nervous and/or respectable, and her phone goes off playing the 'Banana Phone' song, it tells me that, despite her first date nerves, she really does have a sense of humor and is proud enough about it to be silly in public.

I don't think having musical ringtones are a problem, I think the fact that everyone keeps their ring volume up to 11 is a problem. I think that people are oh so worried about missing that next call or message that they walk around with a vibrating loudspeaker in their trousers. I cannot claim to be absent of this mindset myself as I proudly keep my phone on high volume because I think it is funny as hell when the voices of Charlie the Unicorn and his friends announce themselves to the world. Of course, I make a point to turn my phone down or off in professional and/pr quiet settings. That, to me, is respectful ettiquette.

However, claiming that having music as a ringtone is inherently bad or annoying is just silly. If a person likes a particular guitar riff, a particular note sequence on the piano, a particular singer's voice, then why not let them brighten their day a bit every time their phone rings with something that pleases them? If they keep the volume low, it shouldn't be a problem for you or anyone else.

As for saying that a phone should sound like a phone, well I can tell you that the shrill rings of the various phones my parents have owned would jolt me out of bed like someone threw water in my face. It was unpleasant, painful, and downright hell when you had a hangover or a migraine. If that's what phones are supposed to sound like, I say, with all due respect, sir, "Fuck that."

Cheers.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[badboy_tw2002]

There is a practical side of it - you can immediately tell if your phone is ringing. Work in an place where all the phones have the same tone, its hard to tell which is yours.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Nimey]

Mmm... Laphroaig.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[FSWKU]

Sometimes I think the entire "Buy this ringtone and customize your phone to represent YOU" scam is one of the telecom industry's biggest worthless marketing success.

It is. But then again, you don't have to support it to still "personalize" your phone. Most phones have bluetooth. Bluetooth adapters are cheap for computers that don't already have it. Combine with a copy of Adobe Audition or (for the FOSS crowd) Audacity and a bit of time learning, it's ridiculously easy to make your own ringtones. Why pay USD $2 or more for a 30 second clip from a song when you can make the same clip from your personal collection for free? 40+ ringtones on my phone (although I rarely change it) and I've cut and transferred them all myself. And a lot of them are things you simply won't find on your provider's website. Alice Nine, Indica, Oomph, and my personal favorite, The Protomen.

Oh, and since I agree with you about people's ringtones blaring, I keep my volume set to a reasonable level. Loud enough that I can hear it, but not so loud you can hear it across the lobby in a movie theater.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[brianosaurus]

I like having a unique ringtone on my phone, but it is solely for my own benefit. When I hear my ringtone, I absolutely know that it is my phone ringing. I don't play the musical snippet as a "favor" to you. Neither do I give a crap who else hears it. Its my signal that my cellphone has a call.

Cell phones are so prevalent that using any of the default sounds ends up with too many false alarms. Go to a construction site and play the "Nextel chirp". Then watch everyone within earshot check their phone. Its pretty funny, and demonstrates a failure of the alert tone.

I agree with you that the "ringtone industry" is a huge scam, exploiting teenagers and poor people. Ringtones are not status symbols. But if you seriously have an issue with someone's choice of ringtone, get over yourself.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Nightspirit]

I use different ringtones for different people, so that provides more functionality than just vibration, and no, I don't care what anyone has as a ringtone unless it is excessive loud. My mother despises Danzig, so whenever she calls Danzig-Mother plays and it always brightens my day just a little.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally don't mind teens and their loud cellphone ringtones. What I DO mind is when they don't answer the call just so they can listen to stupid miley yell about some party in some country.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

Curmudgeon ahoy!

IMO, I think Ringtones are the least annoying part about a phone, its just their volume that gets annoying. Much like someone talking too loud I don't want their ringtone to disrupt me either. However, if someone has a rap/punk/rock/pop/techno/classical/retro song for their ringtone, I have no issue with it whatsoever.

So, if someone's cell starts beltin' out Achy Breaky Heart, you do have an issue? Then J. Random OldDude probably has an issue with rap/punk/rock/pop/techno/classical/retro. Or one of those.

From his original reply, it seems that he wouldn't have an issue with Achy Breaky Heart. However, it seems like you would. Or rather, do.

Besides, even if the ringtone is based on something I like, why is it a favor to me to hear a truncated, low-fidelity, looping fragment of it?

You're a self-centered chap, eh? Expand your mind and consider this: the ringtone selection was not made as a favor to you. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Sorry, a ringtone is a signal to the user of the cellphone that they have a call or message. Anything else is an abuse of the concept.

And that signal just happens to be a short music clip that gets the message across, hopefully uniquely so that they don't try to pick up when another similar phone is ringing nearby.

It is not a personal statement to every unfortunate within earshot, because in truth they don't give a rat's metric ass about you as a person, or about any statement you wish to make about yourself. You're a part of the scenery, and if your ringtone is loud, you're an annoying part of the scenery.

I'm 6'7" (2m to the US Customary challenged) tall, but I don't run around yelling I'm really tall. I like Metallica and Alan Parsons Project, but I don't blast either out of my cellphone. I really enjoy the occasional dram, but I don't slosh Laphroaig at folks with me at the bar because I think it's vitally important for me to make a personal statement about my superior tastes in whisky.

You're a part of the scenery, and with your bitching, you're an annoying part of the scenery, too.

Sometimes I think the entire "Buy this ringtone and customize your phone to represent YOU" scam is one of the telecom industry's biggest worthless marketing success.

This one I'll give you...

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest: I don't have a cellphone, but every time I'm on a landline talking to someone on a cellphone, it's aggravating as hell. The cellphones not only have shit quality full of compression artifacting, their voice detection latches on to random other shit besides the person talking into the phone. Which is part of the reason I don't have a cellphone; I don't especially need one yet, and the thought of having that aggravation doubled is still kinda horrifying.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Green Salad]

Sometimes I think the entire "Buy this ringtone and customize your phone to represent YOU" scam is one of the telecom industry's biggest worthless marketing success.

It's only worthless if you don't own the corporate stock.

Personally, I welcome the people that feel a need to project their identities with the right product. I happen to feel that the choice (whatever it was) was "an excellent choice" and lets people know they have discerning taste.

Ka-ching!

Is cash tight? We accept plastic. A person of such discriminating taste and intelligence can't be expected to bother with petty cash. Again, excellent choice, sir!

Could I interest you saving money on your next ringtone? I have $39 software package that let's you sample your own ringtones.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[geminidomino]

I use different ringtones for different people, so that provides more functionality than just vibration, and no, I don't care what anyone has as a ringtone unless it is excessive loud. My mother despises Danzig, so whenever she calls Danzig-Mother plays and it always brightens my day just a little.

A kindred spirit! My mother's calls play the intro theme to "Gauntlet".

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, I have a metallica ringtone

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've noticed that people needlessly talk very loud on celphones.

Yes, it is called bragging. Look at me! I have a cell phone! And I'm talking to someone!

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

I really enjoy the occasional dram, but I don't slosh Laphroaig at folks with me at the bar because I think it's vitally important for me to make a personal statement about my superior tastes in whisky.

More importantly: it's a bloody waste of a damned fine malt (although I'd go for the Bowmore 17yo myself if reaching for an Islay)

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

If I use a piece of my favourite music track for my ringtone, I do so not to make a personal statement to everyone around me; I do so to make it unique enough to recognise that it's my phone, and not someone else's. I also choose a part of the track that is instrumental, which tends to be quite similar to those ringtones you get by default - its all instruments in the end. The difference soon becomes that of a studio produced piece or a piece that's not far off a 30KB MIDI file.

You find achy breaky heart annoying, I find nokia's standard ringtone annoying. I say potato, you say potato.

It is a signal to ME that MY phone is ringing or has received a text.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent is correct, and this is technically known as sidetone

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[mrt_2394871]

Sometimes I think the entire "Buy this ringtone and customize your phone to represent YOU" scam is one of the telecom industry's biggest worthless marketing success.

Buy? Any phone that can play MP3 ringtones should be capable of uploading them, or is that different in the USA? And anyway, you try to find Blondie's 'Hanging on the telephone' as a ringtone.

But yes, it is particularly egregious that a 20-30 second clip from a song can cost 2-3 times that of the entire song.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Cro Magnon]

Exactly! Usually, when I'm talking in public, it's to my GF on her cellphone, and I'm ASSuming that her sound quality is as crappy as mine.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've only bought ringtones once, for an old-ass phone that only accepted the polyphonic sounds. To get rid of the god-awfully annoying default rings, I bought the Tetris music.

Since then however, now that phones (and my computer) have the easy capability of putting on my own ringtones, I haven't bought one yet. I do however, create my own. Anyone actually buying a ringtone nowadays is getting horribly ripped off, paying 5 times the price for a 20 second clip than they would pay for the entire song.

And if my ringtone is loud and annoying, that's because its volume is set so that I can HEAR it when I'm y'know... outside. Given most of the time I'm in a location where it's not particularly quiet, I'm not about to go into my phone's settings and change the ringer volume (or bother switching to a "quieter" profile on the phone) every single time I leave a loud area and enter a quiet one, just so I don't offend your poor ears. The ringtone will be going for all of 5 seconds before I pick it up or hit 'ignore' on it, deal with it.

At least be glad I'm one of the ones who sets it to silent when at the movies, and won't pull it out or turn it on while the movie is playing.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[mcgrew]

Many (most?) phones let you assign different ringtones to different callers; mine does. That way you don't have to take the phone out of your pocket to know someone you don't want to talk to is calling. I don't waste money on useless fluffery like ring tones, but if I did I can think of a few choice tunes that I would assign to Evil-X's number.

Re:You don't need to yell into your phone.

[tehcyder]

I'm 6'7" (2m to the US Customary challenged) tall, but I don't run around yelling I'm really tall.

Especially at basketball games.

Manufacturers should adress "that loud guy" issue

[sznupi]

It seems to be so prevalent because cellphones don't appear to feed back what you're talking into the earpiece of your handset.

They can start with doing just that. Bonus: recognize high levels of noise in the environment (nowadays often not having much impact on the actual transmission due to noise suppression) and yank your volume in the speaker even more, to combat the reflex of talking even more loud.

Though I'm not sure how to make people understand that talking clearly is better than just being loud. Side effect of voice operated UIs, eventually?

Look at Japan

[corsec67]

Japan seems to have this issue solved.

Everyone texts on their cell phone, voice conversations in public are fairly uncommon. On a train, they have announcements to silence your phone, which most people do.

Even the crappiest prepaid phone has unlimited messaging/email for 300 yen a month, taken out of the 1,500 yen monthly fee, while voice is very expensive on that phone (90yen/minute).

Re:Look at Japan

[rgravina]

I was going to mention Japan too. I remember after spending some time there and getting a train for the time since I'd gotten back, thinking how rude someone was for having a conversation on their phone on the train. I laughed about it once I realised my reaction but even now I still get annoyed by people having non-essential conversations on the train. Sure, calling someone to pick you up is no problem, but talking about your relationship problems for 30 minutes in front of a car-load of people? Maybe some people find it therapeutic.

Re:Look at Japan

[KlaymenDK]

Japan seems to have this issue solved.

That, as well as queuing up outside of a train door so passengers can actually disembark. A very simple problem that seems to confound a surprisingly large fraction of European public transport consumers.

If we all did as the Japanese, a lot of our social situations would be more efficient. But slightly more cramped.

Re:Look at Japan

[interkin3tic]

Japan seems to have this issue solved.

Yes, they do have manners in Japan, that's true. That's not a solution we could use though, we lack the sense of respect and shame that they do.

Re:Look at Japan

[TheRaven64]

Everyone texts on their cell phone

And it's email, not SMS. That means that you can reply from a proper keyboard and you don't get gouged by networks charging as more for 140 characters than for a minute of talk time.

Re:Look at Japan

[rm999]

Of course texts come with their own share of problems. Plenty of people who would never answer their phones during a sit-down meal seem fine replying to texts.

The way I see it, unless you are a doctor, you should be able to sit down for an hour without *touching* your phone.

Re:Look at Japan

[decipher_saint]

About the Japanese subway stations:

1. The queuing spots are marked (in most cases)
2. The queuing spots correlate to stop markers which the drivers manage to actually stop on

Where I live when people see a train roll into the station they all rush toward the doors as if it's simultaneously the first train they've ever seen AND the last they're likely to see. Meanwhile the people on board seem rather confused by their stop and linger in the doorways. The drivers are content to stop "in the vicinity" of the station.

I won't even talk about the people who sit next to their bags or leave a newspaper where they were sitting. I suspect they are the same people who enjoy pulling the heads off of small mammals.

Re:Look at Japan

[theJML]

I'd have to say that I text a lot more often that I thought I would. Mostly because there are many areas where I don't want to announce my business to everyone in the joint. I can have a quiet conversation, with no yelling, trouble understanding each other, or reception issues if I just text message.

At the same point, looking at my bill, I'd say that 95% of all of my conversations are under a minute, with most (not on the bill but from looking at my phone logs) under 30 seconds.

Usually it's "We're here and we got a table" "cool see you in a few minutes" or "Wanna meet tonight at 6? get some sushi?" "Usual place like 7?" "Sure." "cool, see you there"

That's it. I figure if I have more to discuss, then I'll see them in person. I don't see much point in more than that on ANY phone, let alone a cell phone while out and about.

Re:Look at Japan

[nine-times]

That'd be a great solution if only cell phone companies didn't see SMS messaging as a cash cow. For the cost of a few text messages, you can get the postal service to carry a sheet of paper from Florida to Alaska.

Re:Look at Japan

[mcsqueak]

Yes, they do have manners in Japan, that's true. That's not a solution we could use though, we lack the sense of respect and shame that they do.

Exactly what I was going to post. Japanese society is tied very closely to social norms, perceptions, etc. It would take a very dynamic shift in the way Americans and Europeans do things in order to make us function like the Japanese do regarding cellphone etiquette. Look at the recent bankruptcy of JAL... the CEO made a public apology and STEPPED DOWN. You will very rarely see that level of responsibility over here.

Re:Look at Japan

[mcsqueak]

1. The queuing spots are marked (in most cases)
2. The queuing spots correlate to stop markers which the drivers manage to actually stop on

Another thing to add:

3. Trains that are actually on time.

Last time I was in Tokyo, I had booked a reservation on the special direct rapid train to Narita (can't remember what it was called now). I had to RUN through the station with 3 bags because I had cut the time too close. The train to Narita was exactly on time, to the minute... if I had walked I would have missed it. If Amtrak had been running the operation rather than JR East, I'm sure I could have gotten some lunch and/or taken a nap, and still have had plenty of time before the train showed up...

Re:Look at Japan

[sam0737]

And they refer to the "vibration mode" as "manner mode"

Re:Look at Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

Once in Kyoto the train was delayed. People were taking pictures of the electronic display.

Only other time I've really experienced any delays have been when the trains are involved in 'accidents'. Still, they're quite quick with the cleanup, though being stuck on a train for two hours while the cleanup crew is walking along the side picking up pieces they find under it is _not fun_. Especially not when you're trying to recover your emotions after a really bad depression.

Still, if you want to see something really amazing, go to the Chuo line at Tokyo station during rush hour. The packed train arrives at the end station, doors open and people leave it orderly. The mass of people standing in double columns waiting to get in do not move at all... They all stay behind the yellow line, even though the doors are open and the cars are empty. A conductor jogs through the train checking for forgotten items or passengers, once done the doors are closed and re-opened as a signal that people may step in.

Re:Look at Japan

[royallthefourth]

That's the difference between owning your own rails and having to borrow space from a freight operator because you've got no funding.

Re:Look at Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

...or leave a newspaper where they were sitting.

This depends on the time of day. In the morning, it's polite - someone else might want to read your paper. In the evening, you're just leaving rubbish lying around.

Re:Look at Japan

[L4t3r4lu5]

How dare you! I would never, ever sit next to my luggage on a train!

Those squirrels were looking at my girlfriend funny, though...

Re:Look at Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, you're also taking the F train. Really. I New York City the letter designation for the train line means something. Like the "N" and "R" are the "never" and "rarely" trains. I leave it to you to decide what the "F" designation means.

Re:Look at Japan

[KnownIssues]

3. Trains that are actually on time.

You know, Mussolini kept the trains on time.

Re:Look at Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you live in Toronto? Because you've described rush hour here to a T.

I also miss the Japan train system, and I was only there for 2 weeks!

Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[gimmebeer]

Walking down the street laughing and talking to an invisible friend without holding anything up to their ear. It's just not right.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Jhon]

Actually, I am insane. And wearing this little thing in my ear makes me appear normal!

Not only that, but some guys PAY me money now to look busy and sit in an office!

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[A Pancake]

When and where I talk to Jesus is my own business, thank you very much.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I just tell people I'm talking to Al. Their reaction is fun whether they get it or not.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Boondocks covered this one very well - to paraphrase -

"You know why people hold phones up to their ear? To let other people know you are talking on the fucking phone!"

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[ChunderDownunder]

Hmmm, then you're doing it wrong.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[nrgy]

I moved to Los Angeles a little over a year and a half ago, coming from a small hick town in the midwest having lived there my whole life "28 years".

When I first arrived I would walk around the neighborhood and see people jogging, walking the dog, whatever, I thought everyone was crazy for a good few months. The whole Bluetooth thing wasn't huge back home so it took some getting use to.

Although I must admit people in LA are crazy regardless of having or not having a Bluetooth headset :).

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[kraftey]

I used to see people walking down the street talking on bluetooth headsets all the time. Now, more often than not, they actually are talking to themselves. I live on campus at the UW (Seattle), though, so bt headsets might still be popular with the older crowd (and we might have a higher percentage of people who talk to themselves, dunno).

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[BluBrick]

When and where I talk to Jesus is my own business, thank you very much.

I'm cool with that. Just don't do it loud enough to encroach on my business, 'kay?

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

Precisely! I once got startled and went into self-defense mode (gripped the bag I was holding: ready for whacking) when a guy walking just ahead of me suddenly started talking loudly to himself. Good thing I didn't go insane.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[DigiShaman]

You sure you didn't just see Sam Beckett?

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[noidentity]

Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane. Walking down the street laughing and talking to an invisible friend without holding anything up to their ear. It's just not right.

You've got it all wrong. It makes those of us who talk to ourselves look normal. I hardly ever get looks anymore when I'm talking to myself in the grocery store about what to get. They just think I'm talking to a SO or something on a bluetooth earphone that's so small you can't even see it.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

You have Allen Iverson's phone number?

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I call you Sam, then?

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been suggesting for years that we just give crazy street people headsets so at least it looks like they might actually be talking to someone.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

Walking down the street laughing and talking to an invisible friend without holding anything up to their ear. It's just not right.

You call it bluetooth. I call him Jesus.

Re:Bluetooth headsets make people seem insane.

[Sardaukar86]

Hmmm, then you're doing it wrong.

Always with religion there is this need for there to be a right way and a wrong way.

I live for the day when we overcome; and instead, find joy in the wonderous diversity of ways people around the world practice religion.

This reminds me

[Monkeedude1212]

Have you ever had a conversation with someone, only to find out a few seconds later they were on a Bluetooth talking to someone else?

That happened to me the other day - saw an old friend from Highschool on the train, he was half facing the other way because it was crowded.

I somehow went 3 whole minutes of conversation seeming completely fluid and comprehensible, only to see him turn and be like "Wow I haven't seen you since High School!"

You can imagine my baffled reaction.

Re:This reminds me

[NFN_NLN]

I somehow went 3 whole minutes of conversation seeming completely fluid and comprehensible, only to see him turn and be like "Wow I haven't seen you since High School!"

You can imagine my baffled reaction.

You're the last candidate I'd approve for a Turing Test.

Re:This reminds me

[Aladrin]

Oh man, I do this in the office all the time. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes by accident. I never get beyond a few lines, though. It's always good for an office laugh, though.

But 3 minutes... Has it occurred to you that 3 minutes of your intro when talking to someone is complete bullshit? I hate the formalities people use when approaching you... How are you? Weather's nice, blah blah blah... Cut to the chase. I'm not so lazy that I need you to help me waste time. And that goes doubly so on a cellphone.

Re:This reminds me

[Kenshin]

That happened to me five minutes ago.

My boss was asking me a question about something, I was trying to explain it to him, and right in the middle of my explanation, without any signal like turning his head or looking away, he unexpectedly got right back into another (LOUD) conversation with whoever had put him on hold on his bluetooth.

IT MAKES ME WANT TO STRANGLE HIM. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. IF YOU'RE USING ONE OF THESE AND YOU'RE NOT DRIVING A CAR, I HOPE IT EXPLODES IN YOUR EAR.

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

Ouch! I was riding my bike talking on my bluetooth headset when it suddenly exploded in my ear! Damnit.

Re:This reminds me

[treeves]

You must be a blast at parties, as they say.

Re:This reminds me

[idontgno]

I'd recruit him, if I wanted the computer to win.

Re:This reminds me

[Monkeedude1212]

Yeah it basically went down like that - I said "Hey!" and he said "Hi" - and I basically had a spiel about how its been a while to which he responded "Yeah I know". So then I asked him how things were lately and he began to describe his day. I of course had my small juts here and there "Oh yeah.... That's cool... Like how?" and then he asked "How about you?" so then I went on about my current stuff.

Only after all of that did he hang up and glance over.

Re:This reminds me

[Arbition]

If your conversation was that fluid, doesn't that say something about the scope of most peoples conversations? (Sample size one, I know, but many conversations have to go much the same for it to line up, or so I'd think)

Re:This reminds me

[fiannaFailMan]

Have you ever had a conversation with someone, only to find out a few seconds later they were on a Bluetooth talking to someone else?

That happened to me the other day - saw an old friend from Highschool on the train, he was half facing the other way because it was crowded.

I somehow went 3 whole minutes of conversation seeming completely fluid and comprehensible, only to see him turn and be like "Wow I haven't seen you since High School!"

You can imagine my baffled reaction.

That drives me fucking crazy! I used to have a house mate who talked incessantly on her phone with headset attached and would inflict her conversations on all of us. Every time she'd come into the kitchen asking a question I'd have to say "are you talking to me?" Nine times out of ten she wasn't.

Re:This reminds me

[rockNme2349]

How was your a Turing Test?

Re:This reminds me

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Cut to the chase. I'm not so lazy that I need you to help me waste time

So true. If we're talking - especially at wokr - it's not because we want to make idle conversation, it's for a purpose. You don't care how my vacation was, I don't care how your children are. Ask me how I am and I'll give you a rote answer, the same as you give me. (This assumes you're a business acquaintance and not an actual friend, of course.) Why don't we just skip the nonsense and say what we need to say?

Of course -- there was this guy at work who used to do exactly that. Then I guess he got some negative feedback -- after our next performance reviews, he suddenly started prefixing every encounter with "hi -name-, how are you." Not a question, just a dull statement delivered in a wooden monotone. He then waits impatiently for the appropriate ritual reply, then asks what he came to ask. He's been doing this for years now... it's almost funny.

So maybe the answer to this question is because a lot of people believe that this is sincere, legitimate conversation?

Re:This reminds me

[acheron12]

Yes, it happens a lot

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

http://xkcd.com/476/

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a boss like that. He always had an earpiece in place, and if his phone rang then anything we were discussing was suspended while he talked on the phone. I was expected to just wait until he finished, then pick up the conversation where we left off. I complained a number of times that I thought this was extremely rude, but it made no difference. So eventually, I used to just walk away if he answered the phone, and claim later that I thought we had finished. That made no difference either, but at least it was more satisfying.

Text Messaging

[assemblyronin]

How is most of this 'list' news?

If you're in a noisy situation, or in a delicate one (sans movie theatre) where you're not in a one-on-one conversation with someone. Silent Mode + Text Messaging = Everyone else is happy, and you're able to communicate freely.

Oh wait, i forgot about PHBs that need to be reminded that they're not the only people on the planet... nevermind, carry on.

More on theaters

[Tony Stark]

When you're sitting behind me in the movie theater watching the Book of Eli, don't answer your phone and put it on speakerphone so the other person can hear the movie and the two of you can comment on it. The other person didn't pay for a ticket and I did.

Loudness

[russotto]

The reason people talk louder on cell phones is probably the same reason they used to talk louder on landlines: Sidetone, or the lack thereof. When you don't hear yourself over the phone, you speak louder to compensate. I've noticed cell phones, especially the really tiny ones, have almost no sidetone.

Re:Loudness

[flabordec]

There's also the matter of visual feedback, knowing that the other person actually received whatever you told him and he is thinking of an answer instead of a communications failure. That happens to me a lot specially in areas with lousy reception or with bad cell phones, when I know the other person is probably not hearing me well.

Re:Loudness

[jeep16]

I find that a headset helps with this.The speakers in many phones are very lacking and the sidetone in most cell phones is minimal to non-existant, but if you have a headset coupled into your ear you can hear well. You have to realize though, that there is noise cancellation technology at work in the headset (if you buy a good one!), so even if you are in a noisy environment you can speak normally.
Hopefully the days are gone where someone feels they have to move the cell phone from their ear to their mouth when they talk - I watched a couple do this at dinner one night - ironically while I was at a conference on telephony audio quality!

Re:Loudness

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully the days are gone where someone feels they have to move the cell phone from their ear to their mouth when they talk - I watched a couple do this at dinner one night - ironically while I was at a conference on telephony audio quality!

I still see Sprint advertising Nextel Push-to-talk. Not only it it stupid to use a two way phone like a one way radio, even people with one way radios hate those rodger beeps. It's like it was designed to be annoying. It truth I think it was designed for losers who want to show off in public. No, it doesn't make you special to have it.

How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[thesandtiger]

"Don't be a loud, obnoxious asshole." Works for phones or any kind of conversation you're having in a public space.

"Don't drive like an asshole." Works for phones, texting, or just generally not paying attention to the multi-ton machine you're controlling while it hurtles down the road.

"Don't pull the asshole move of interrupting someone who is speaking to you by doing something else." Works for people who get a call in the middle of a conversation.

Really, "Don't be an asshole" is about all the etiquette we really need, and it's a lot simpler than trying to remember Emily Post.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't lecture me, asshole.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't call me asshole, asshole!

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[Lattitude]

And please feel free to apply this rule continuously and in all situations.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[TheRaven64]

It's all the laws we need too. Until, of course, two people disagree about what constitutes being an asshole...

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[godrik]

Don't call me asshole, asshole!

Don't call me asshole, asshole!

(infite loop initialized)

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[lottameez]

And then you'll need to get the asshole lawyers involved. (hmn, I wonder if asshole should be capitalized in this usage)

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[godrik]

the asshole lawyers[...](hmn, I wonder if asshole should be capitalized in this usage)

I think you can remove asshole since it is redundant.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[Anonymous Coward]

But what if the phone call you are receiving is more important (possibly FAR more important) to you than the conversation? I know that people like to think that an active conversation is more important than any interruption, but far more often it isn't.

I think the better caveat is: "Don't give your cellphone number to anyone who isn't important enough to interrupt anything you might be doing, and if you are calling someone's cell phone, don't do it unless it's absolutely critical that you do so."

Of course in order for that to work, there needs to be a very distinct difference in how a cell phone is connected. A warning of some kind, even a small set of warning beeps needs to precede the ring connection to alert the caller that the other end is a cell phone, and potentially give them the option to just leave a message by pressing a certain key.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[Anonymous Coward]

"He's an Asshole sir. Major Asshole."

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[izomiac]

Sadly, the common sense necessary to discern this is lacking. Most people seem to lack all sense of situational awareness. Hence why so many people have conversations in doorways, or vastly over-prioritize taking a phone call regardless to whether they're driving or talking to someone else.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[Anonymous Coward]

And what constitutes "being an asshole"? That's what etiquette is defining. You're essentially answering, "How does one do X" by saying "do X".

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[The End Of Days]

One additional rule covers it:

Don't judge people too harshly for being an asshole.

That's a much harder rule to make work, though. People do love to judge.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[spitzig]

Yeah, but the problem with using existing rules of etiquette is that people don't always know how the rules apply in these new cases. Or, that the rules even apply. In the 1950's, apparently, many people didn't know that driving while drunk made you a worse driver. We passed laws about it, and now it's considered extremely rude. Using cell phones is shifting toward that, too.

Talking loudly in a public place(not even mentioning a cell phone) is apparently not known by many Americans to be rude. That's one major reason that people in other countries consider us rude. It's one thing I like about living in Taiwan.

Re:How about we use existing rules of etiquitte?

[geminidomino]

And then you'll need to get the asshole lawyers involved. (hmn, I wonder if asshole should be capitalized in this usage)

Asshole, Esq.?

Ring tones

[Anonymous Coward]

A phone should sound like a phone, not a freakin' gameboy.

Text

[Darkness404]

How about everyone text? Its generally more efficient (no miscommunication), easier to be safer (when you text you still have the message hours down the line and can respond instantly), and in all honesty a lot less rude to the other person. With a phone call, you expect the other person to drop everything and devote at least 75% of their attention to you, with texting it requires a lot less attention.

Re:Text

[russotto]

How about everyone text? Its generally more efficient (no miscommunication), easier to be safer (when you text you still have the message hours down the line and can respond instantly), and in all honesty a lot less rude to the other person.

Slower to write for most of us. More expensive. Not interactive. Not real time.

Re:Text

[Darkness404]

Slower to write for most of us

Compare how many times you have to repeat yourself and such and you will see that texting is much more efficient and quicker. Its a whole lot easier to tell someone Help-About Firefox-Credits to view the Firefox credits than walk someone through it.

More expensive

Depends. Its usually a lot cheaper to get an unlimited texting plan than an unlimited voice plan. Its expensive at small levels, but if you do nearly all your communication via text, and a lot of communication, its cheaper.

Not interactive

Interactivity really isn't needed for most communciation though, at least for me, the majority of my communication is best done via text because I generally tell people specific directions, the ability to refer back to them is much more valuable than any benefit via interactivity.

Not real time.

That is many times a good thing. If it isn't real time, you can get replies a lot better than playing "phone tag" via answering machines. Think of all the times that you are "available" but can't talk on a phone but could type? During boring lectures, in a crowded car/bus/train, in the bathroom, while eating, etc.

Re:Text

[fiannaFailMan]

How about everyone text? Its generally more efficient (no miscommunication), ....

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding me!!

Are you seriously telling me you've never tried to be humorously sarcastic in text only to be misinterpreted as rude?

Re:Text

[Aqualung812]

Why is this better than email?

Re:Text

[Cro Magnon]

The main time when I'd want to text is when my GF wants me to meet her at such a location in the VERY VERY loud casino. Text would be better than trying to find someplace quiet enough to hear her voicemail. But, until I can convince her to get a texting plan that doesn't treat each word as gold, that won't happen.

Wait for the apologists ...

[adipocere]

A friend who works the pharmacy at Walgreens has some very entertaining stories to relate. Despite signs posted otherwise, people will pull up to the drive-through, with other customers waiting behind them, and continue conversations for a few minutes before turning to the pneumatic tube. Once, my friend asked one of these folks if there was anything they could do and received a lecture about how rude it is to interrupt someone's conversation.

Similarly, I see this waiting in line at restaurants all the time. I could make exceptions if someone had arrived and was taking, say, a request for a Coke for one kid, a Sprite for another, and so forth, but I encounter that about once a year.

I'm sure someone will chime in with the idea that this person might be a DOCTOR *Felicia Day eye-widen and gasp* and we mustn't do anything to interrupt. When was the last time you or anyone you know had an actual life-or-death emergency call to their off-duty doctor? It isn't as if you get too many over the phone heart surgeons responding to a phone call in the movie theater with this stunning new operation that only they have performed and they must relate every cut, clamp, and stitch to some quivering and clueless resident.

If I were building a movie theater, I'd use enough rebar to make it into a giant Faraday cage. And maybe have an FCC-approved step-pedal triggered highly localized cell phone jammer at every cash register. As it is, I have stopped ducking and weaving to everyone who, so immersed in their uber-important cell phone conversation that they cannot look where they are going, would like to bump into me.

Re:Wait for the apologists ...

[Aladrin]

If a doctor gets an emergency call, he doesn't stand in line at McDonald's while he's taking it. He seeks out somewhere quieter and out of the way where he can think.

Feel free to interrupt them without fear of anyone dying over it.

Re:Wait for the apologists ...

[MichaelSmith]

Riding a bicycle to work I have seen half a dozen or so people cycling along in the dark without lights, hands off the controls and talking on a phone stuck to their ear. I always abuse them loudly so even if they don't care about the havoc they could create, the person on the other end may catch on.

Re:Wait for the apologists ...

[godrik]

If I were building a movie theater, I'd use enough rebar to make it into a giant Faraday cage.

Some cinema in France are like that. I recall the one in 'La Defense' being perfectly quiet despite there must be 300 seats in the room.

Re:Wait for the apologists ...

[FrankieBaby1986]

I experience similar all the time at the computer help desk I work at. People will come up to you, ask for help, say in how to connect to the wireless VPN system, and try to carry on a conversation on the phone all the while.

When someone does this, I simply ignore them. I wait until they finish their conversation, and then help them. (They're not paying customers, it comes out of their tuition whether we help them or not).

I often did the same when I worked as a cashier. If you want to conduct business with me, put down your damn phone. Simple as that.

Re:Wait for the apologists ...

[Doctor Faustus]

My wife tends to do the opposite to me. She'll call me before she's actually ready to talk, so I get to wait while she finishes her in-person conversation. She seems confused as to why this annoys me.

Get an iPhone, Blackberry, or Android

[MrEricSir]

Don't be "that guy" with the unhip phone.

Re:Get an iPhone, Blackberry, or Android

[Anonymous Coward]

I keep the Brick for protection. No one expects getting Brick Rolled...

Re:Get an iPhone, Blackberry, or Android

[mcgrew]

Get off my lawn, kid. Only the uber-uncool strive to be cool.

maybe

[digitalsushi]

maybe we just translated the way we treat each other online into how we treat a faceless phone call.

challenge?

[Threni]

It's just people being selfish, or stupid. You're in a noisy room - the person you're talking to isn't. They can hear you, because isolating your voice and not your surroundings is a solved problem. You can hear them because you can turn the sound of their voice up. You shouting at them doesn't help either of you. Selfish or stupid - pick at least one.

Also

[Anonymous Coward]

It also doesn't help that you have no idea how loud your voice sounds on the other end. I was told that people can barely hear me on my cordless phone, but I didn't know how bad it was until I listened to my own voice on the base unit. Time to get a new phone.

A worldwide standard on decibel levels would be very helpful.

Plausible Deniability

[Anachragnome]

The fact that I am on a cellphone means that I can NOT answer any calls and effectively screen calls without worry of "hurting someone's feelings".

I don't answer my cell phones unless I am expecting the call and/or know the caller...ever. And, because of this, all callers to my phone either leave a message or fuck off. In either case, I can call them back as I feel like it...without offending anyone around me.

But then again, I am not so reliant on the constant interaction with friends that my life will go to hell unless I talk to them NOW. Fucking pathetic.

YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT

[spun]

1. It is NOT rude to talk on your cell phone in a public place eg on a train or bus or w/e. just like how it isnt rude to have a conversation with a real person there. It pisses me off that on some busses I take they say "please dont use cellphones, it may disturb others" when it doesnt say "people dont talk, it may disturb others". in fact, on a phone there's less talking to be disturbed bya s thre's only 1/2 the conversation.

TALKING ON A CELL PHONE IS THE SAME AS TALKING VERY LOUDLY WITH SOMEONE RIGHT THERE WITH YOU.

Re:YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT

[tthomas48]

No actually it's not, although I'm not quite sure why. I found boisterous teens shouting and goofing off loudly somehow much less annoying than a guy having a loud invisible conversation with the air. The guy conducting the invisible symphony doesn't annoy me at all.

I have no clue why the cell phone makes it more irritating. Maybe the fact that in some sense it's technology rather than people causing the problem?

Two words...

[DoofusOfDeath]

public restrooms

It's Never OK...

[TheTyrannyOfForcedRe]

It is never ok to use a cell phone:

• on a bus
• in any restaurant where the meal isn't served on a plastic tray
• in the passenger compartment of a subway / train / light rail
• in a movie theater
• "in line" / "on queue" ANYWHERE

People who violates the above should be clubbed about the face and head with their phone.

Re:It's Never OK...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm not talking loud enough to be an annoyance, why should you care when I'm on the phone (with the exception of when I'm driving)? If I AM talking loud enough to annoy you, why does it matter whether I'm on the phone or not? Using the phone in a restaurant can be rude to the other people at the table (you should be paying attention to the people you're eating with), but it should be None of anyone else's damn business.

Re:It's Never OK...

[MichaelSmith]

In 1948 Robert Heinlein wrote a story called Space Cadet. Early in the story the protagonist is lining for something and his mobile phone rings. He answers the call. Its his dad asking about something but he ends the call saying can't talk now I am in a crowd. You know RAH was a pretty good futurist and got a lot of technical things right, but some things wrong too. Few people today would end a mobile phone call because there were other people around.

Re:It's Never OK...

[Anonymous Coward]

Heinlein wasn't envisionning a utopia of politeness. It's because cell phone towers, according to him, couldn't handle receiving signals from hundreds of people at once without interference, a perfectly reasonable thing for someone not acquainted with cell phone technology to think.

Re:It's Never OK...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's been a long time since I read that story, but I seem to recall that the call was terminated because the protagonist didn't want to bother those around him. Heinlein's mistake was assuming that polite social norms of the day would continue.

Re:It's Never OK...

[Brianwa]

I don't understand the aversion towards using a phone on a bus or train. You're already riding in an incredibly loud environment, a reasonably quiet conversation going on nearby doesn't make a difference at all.

Re:It's Never OK...

[shilly]

I always thought the most interesting moment in that story of a divergence between Heinlein's imagination and how things turned out was when Tex puts his phone in his bag to avoid answering the call -- Heinlein didn't anticipate off-switches, silent settings, or "ignore" buttons. But what he did imagine is truly amazing and extraordinarily believable / internally coherent.

Re:It's Never OK...

[mcgrew]

It is never ok to use a cell phone:
on a bus
in the passenger compartment of a subway / train / light rail
"in line" / "on queue" ANYWHERE

Why not? These aren't exactly "quiet places". Restaraunts and theaters I can agree with (and would add "the library"), but why does a bus trump a fast food joint?

I don't have any reception at home,

[ambrosen]

you insensitive clod.

The toilet

[RevWaldo]

'nuff said, I should hope.

And that goes for talking AND texting. After one-sided converstation, someone going clickety-clickety-clickety is the second-most disturbing sound you can hear coming out of a restroom stall.

Actually, make that the third.

Re:The toilet

[maxume]

I agree that there is at least one stall sound more disturbing than a cell phone conversation, but I'm not real sure it is limited to one sound (after you set aside various bowel noises, you still have vomiting, sex, etc).

Re:The toilet

[leenks]

People still have phones with keypads?

Re:The toilet

[Cro Magnon]

Every so often, I hear someone talking while crapping. When that happens, I try to flush the next toilet, hoping the person he's talking to hears it. :)

It's Their Fault Not Ours

[mindbrane]

social barbarism

Barbarism, or, more pointedly barbarians we so named by the ancient Greeks because the language(s) of said barbarians were thought by the Greeks to sound like "bar,bar,bar...". Barbarians and others with even understandable languages were enslaved by the Greeks because they were seen, perhaps perceived is a better word, as Other. Those not members of the tribe and therefore rightly enslaved. "Social barbarism" is a bit of an oxymoron in light of it's xenophobic origins. Norbert Elias did a brilliant job of tracking what power elites termed civility as a means of excluding others from power and resources. Language is highly contextually bound, as are manners. Screaming into your cell to be heard over a live symphonic performance is one thing, screaming into your cell to be heard over a roaring crowd at a football match is another. Disciplining yourself to shut out fleeting annoyances is one thing, appointing yourself the watchdog of social norms is another.

Re:It's Their Fault Not Ours

[Anonymous Coward]

bar,bar,bar ba ba baran - umm sounds like theres a hit record in that someplace.

A bucket of water would help

[MichaelSmith]

I think every row of cubicles at my work should have a bucket of water for the storage of unattended ringing mobiles. Presumably the person at the other end assumes the owner of the phone can't hear the ring to they keep trying. First offence: I remove the back and the battery. Second offence: into the drink.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[waimate]

I find paper phone books an incredibly useful service. I use them whenever I'm using a craft knife and need something to cut on. They work very well for that, they're free, and a new one is delivered to my door every year or something.

They can also be useful for raising monitors a couple of inches, although for that application you don't need a fresh one each year.

But as a source of phone numbers - ya just gotta wonder why they bother. Advertising revenue, perhaps.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[MichaelSmith]

Ah good point. But for those purposes do you need new ones every year? My guess is the business will potter on for about ten years until the old people who currently used them stop buying stuff. Then advertising revenue will decline and they will go out of business.

I had a moment of cognitive dissonance when I was helping my mother move home. She loaded up the phone books and I said why not leave them here. She said her boyfriend uses them and I said what for? She looked at me like I was some kind of idiot. He uses them for looking up phone numbers.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[Anonymous Coward]

iPhone??

Re:A bucket of water would help

[MichaelSmith]

Clearly, Steve Jobs has foreseen my fiendish plan.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[maxume]

And if any of the fuckers that own those phones actually has the gall to talk to you, you can just shoot them until they are dead.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[Ogi_UnixNut]

I'm curious, what is the modern replacement for a phone book? I remember when phonebooks held numbers of every registered line in the country, complete with the persons full name (this was before ex-directory/private numbers became widespread). When I was younger It used to be a staple part of any teen party to get drunk and prank call people with funny names from the phonebook.

I can't think of any online resource that provides the same service (looking up phone numbers) in the UK, is there one?

Re:A bucket of water would help

[MichaelSmith]

I am not in the UK but most of the time I just google stuff these days. If it is a personal number somebody probably gave it to me so it will be in my PDA, which has space for thousands of numbers. If it is a business they probably have a web site or a directory listing which google indexes. I can get the white and yellow pages on line easier than I can get the phone book out of the cupboard. I think always on ADSL and 3G internet access makes all the difference.

I am an Australian but in 1997 I was in London staying with a friend. I wanted to find an internet cafe so I asked my host for a phone book. He pointed out how big a phone book would have to be for a city of 12 million people. I took his point and walked around at random and looking for the internet cafe, which had apparently moved.

Can't you use this?

Re:A bucket of water would help

[Anonymous Coward]

First offence: I remove the back and the battery.

I bet all those iPhone owners get on well with you...

Re:A bucket of water would help

[L4t3r4lu5]

There's a pub where I used to live which used to have a "no mobile phone" policy. Everyone knew not to get the mobile phone out while in the pub, and they were always put on silent / turned off before entering. Signs behind the bar stated that any phone which went off would be thrown in the waste tray. Enforcement was carried out by locals who lacked a couple of teeth and enjoyed shooting creatures your girlfriend would call "cute" at the weekend.

This had the added advantage of keeping yuppies from local businesses out of the only "real" pub in the village. Wine bars were glad of the business, and I was glad of the quiet.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[mcgrew]

Wine bars were glad of the business, and I was glad of the quiet.

Wow, sure is different there than here. At Felber's (journal entry) I'd say more than half the patrons are missing teeth and enjoy shooting (and eating) creatures your girlfriend would call "cute", but I usually can't hear my phone ringing over the noisy drunks who are missing teeth and loudly jabbering about their hunting prowess and what they went to jail last weekend for.

Of course, the only real pub here is D'Arcy's Pint, and it's quiet there despite the fact that it's a big place and always busy (great food, reasonable prices). I still hear phones ring there sometimes, but never see anybody with missing teeth.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad idea, we've got enough pollution from electronic devices as it is without people destroying them on purpose. It is also something you cannot do without destroying other persons property - illegal in most countries. But hey, why not use slashdot to vent...

Re:A bucket of water would help

[tehcyder]

Of course, the only real pub here is D'Arcy's Pint, and it's quiet there despite the fact that it's a big place and always busy (great food, reasonable prices).

I don't know where you live, but in the UK a real pub does not serve food, except for pork scratchings.

Re:A bucket of water would help

[mcgrew]

I was told by a gentleman from Ireland that a pub was a "public house" and Irish pubs always sold food. Perhaps I was misinformed and the bars here that call themselves "pubs" really are pubs?

Stop the Madness!

[Anonymous Coward]

We Dont F***ing Care!

As far as i'm concerned etiquette is a thing of the past, you know were none of us would have anything to say about anything.

What I did...

[Anonymous Coward]

I held off getting a cell phone until 2005, when I fired the telco, transferred my number to a cell phone, and didn't look back. I have the following personal etiquette rules:

- I never talk on the phone while driving. If my phone rings while I'm driving, I ignore it.

- First come, first served. If I'm in a conversation and my phone rings, I ignore it, end of story. This has gotten me lots of weird looks at work: "Your phone's ringing, aren't you going to answer it?" "No; I was talking with you first."

- If I feel it would not be appropriate to answer my phone, I ignore it.

- If I'm not at home, the phone is set to Vibrate--or if I'm somewhere Vibrate isn't even allowed--Silent. End of story.

- I own my phone; not the other way around.

- These rules even apply if my wife is calling me, and she does the same on her end with her phone.

- If you have a true emergency and Absolutely Must Get a Hold of Me, call me over and over, and it had better fucking be important.

Rule #1, it's OK to flush them

[petes_PoV]

If the user is being and obnoxious, or stops you dead in a conversation just to answer a call it should be perfectly acceptable (both socially and legally) to take the phone and drop it in the nearest deep body of water. There may even be a defence of protecting the idiot user from harm: as the next option could be physical violence.

A second piece of ettiquette that should be adopted is if a work colleague calls you out of hours, they are tacitly giving their permission for you to call them back at any time of your choosing, including the small hours of the morning. I'd suggest around 4;30 a.m. for the return call: it's very difficult to get back to sleep when you know you'll soon have to rise, anyway. BTW, automated return calls are permissable here.

Let the old codgers die off..

[Anonymous Coward]

My plan is to let all the old people who are so worried about etiquette being the same as it was in 1949 die off. Then we'll be left to do whatever we want. Get off MY lawn, grandpa! In the meantime how about you just don't drive with the damn thing. Except you grandpa you can continue to drive with it as it will help the rest of my plan.

Citizens Raging Against Phones

[HTH NE1]

Lazlow: Ants, killer bees, fat people, what's plaguing you? Call now! Chatterbox, hello, you're on the air.
Caller: Err yes, I'd like to say something about these damn people on trains and buses in this city who yammer on and on into their cell phones. I'm really glad to hear about what your having for dinner! What we should do, is herd them up, and put them on an island. I am the President of a group called Citizens Raging Against Phones.
Lazlow: CRAP?!?
Caller: Exactly!
Lazlow: Your organization's called 'CRAP' ... wh-- what kind of moron are you, you wanna round people up for using a phone?!? But you-- your calling up on a phone t-- to tell the world about it! I, I mean, how many people are there in this 'CRAP'?
Caller: Citizens are raging against phones, Lazlow!!
Lazlow: How many people?
Caller: There are three of us. It's hard organizing meetings without the phones though. We've had to resort to carrier pigeons, and they keep disappearing.
Lazlow: What are you speaking to me on? What-- what's that in your hand?
Caller: I am not the problem! You are! And you're perpetuating the downfall of mankind! Liberty City was great before phones ruined everything.
Lazlow: Liberty City was a church, a cow pasture and three houses when the telephone was invented!
Caller: Liar!!
Lazlow: You're the liar!
Caller: Liar, liar, pants on fire!
Lazlow: What are... are you three years old?!?
Caller: Lazlow's a liar, Lazlow's a liar!! I bet that isn't even your real name.
Lazlow: Shut up!!
Caller: You shut up!!
Lazlow: Stupid!
Caller: Nanny nanny boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo!
Lazlow: Ohh...we're going to commercials!

Pavolvian Response

[decipher_saint]

Seriously, if your phone rings, bleeps, vibrates, whatever and you are engaged in a conversation with a live person (or people) DO NOT pull out your phone and look at it.

Whatever it is, it can wait at least 30 seconds.

In fact I had a meeting with someone in my cube not too long ago, my phone rang and I just kept talking with them. They seemed quite surprised that I gave them preference over the machine. Somehow we've all been trained to dash for the phone no matter what.

Re:Pavolvian Response

[residieu]

I hope you at least hit the button to silence it. Having your phone continue to ring while I talk to you would be FAR more irritating than having you check the caller and turn off the ring. I expect most people to be able to do that much while still paying attention to the speaker.

Re:Pavolvian Response

[decipher_saint]

Of course, I also have my voicemail set to pick up after four rings so I don't annoy the bejesus out of people when I'm attending meetings and calls come in.

Re:Pavolvian Response

[Anonymous Coward]

4 rings is enough to annoy the bejesus out of me. It's a mobile phone. It can fit in your pocket. TAKE IT WITH YOU!!!! Turn the ringer off when you're in meetings so you don't disturb the meeting.

Re:Pavolvian Response

[decipher_saint]

The office phone, that is.

Bluetards? Bluetools?

[Boss Sauce]

Somebody needs to tell them that the person on the other end can't appreciate their grinning and nodding.

Those pleated pants do go nicely with the headset, though-- nice look, bluetard.

Okay how about this

[MichaelSmith]

Baby dies in Torrens tragedy

Responding to questions about the incident, police said Ms Lucas, 30, was jogging about 100m to the east of the Hackney Rd bridge about 8.45am when she stopped to take a mobile phone call.

She scribbled a number on her leg - she did not have writing paper - and turned her back to the pram.

When Ms Lucas finished the telephone call and looked up, her child and the pram had vanished.

Asked if she might have heard a splash or the sound of the pram falling into water, Chief Inspector Mick Fisher said he did "not want to speculate on that".

Witnesses said Ms Lucas, fearing Leonardo had been abducted, was "hysterical" as she ran along the path toward the bridge.

"Someone took my baby in a pram, a red Mountain Buggy," Ms Lucas told witnesses.

...and so on. Another moron with a mobile.

Re:Okay how about this

[shilly]

Nice. This mother has a dead child and you're sneering at her. Whether it was her fault or not (and if you actually read to the end of the article, you'll see the police say they are taking the possibility of third party involvement seriously), you might consider not using a dead baby to make a rhetorical point of no particular significance in a debate of no particular significance on Slashdot.

Re:Okay how about this

[MichaelSmith]

My sympathies are with the dead child. Sorry but thats how I see it. If this woman was locked away for her actions I would be safer as a result. If she is so traumatized that she never leaves her house, then I will be safer. I am just not a fan of "forgive and forget".

Re:Okay how about this

[shilly]

You have no room for sympathies for both the mother *and* the dead child? That's an extraordinarily mean-minded position to take. I'm also not sure that you are expressing your sympathy to the child very well by sneering at their mother.
You're ready, on the basis of reading a single news report, to be sure that you *know* this is the fault of the mother? I wish I could live in a world as certain as yours is.
And you think she somehow poses a risk to your own personal safety? That's just narcissism, and pretty ridiculous narcissism.
You're not a fan of "forgive and forget"? Who are you to forgive or not forgive anyway? What on earth has it got to do with you? The child's father?

Unspoken rules are not dictated

[PPalmgren]

No one sat down and wrote "man law in the restroom" before it existed and expected everyone to follow it, the etiquette formed over time. As you can see by the other posts, cell phone etiquette is common sense and already formed. "THOSE guys" will always exist, just like that dumbass who takes the urinal next to you out of four and attempts to start conversation. No penalties are needed unless its dangerous (driving on phone), anything else is nanny-state micromanagement. What else needs to be said?

Sometimes, you just gotta get down in the gutter

[hyades1]

While taking the bus to work, I endured about 10 minutes of non-stop, high-volume chatter about matters far too intimate for public exhibition. I finally reached my limit...couldn't concentrate to read, had forgotten my headphones, couldn't ignore the conversation (which was carried on at a near-shout). The offender was clearly a Jerry Springer fugitive, and if she wasn't a star of that People of WalMart site, her attire was such that it's only a matter of time. The faces of the other transit riders made it obvious I wasn't the only one offended by a conversation that included the woman's current sex life, how she enjoyed suckering her sister into babysitting so she could go clubbing, and some lovely racial stereotyping about her child's absentee father.

I pulled out my cell phone and began to carry on a fake conversation about the woman. I'll admit that I was pretty far over the top, but I was also seriously pissed. The other riders caught on pretty fast and started laughing. For at least a couple of minutes the woman was oblivious. Gradually, though, it sunk in...I think it was when I mentioned how lucky she was that the bus came along before that Inuit with a harpoon caught up with her.

She wound up cursing at me, but that was fine. A lot of people were laughing at her, which was exactly what I had in mind. She got off the bus pretty quickly after that. I don't know if it was her stop; I hope not.

I wouldn't recommend this course of action except under ideal circumstances, but I don't regret it.

Ettiquette on public transport.

[RichardJenkins]

Hey loud-mouth, damn right.

Stop nattering at 7am on the train when I should be in bed. Put your cellphone on vibrate and don't take calls. No loud music either, closed cup headphones or earphones are fine - but so help you if I can hear that the slightest tinny drivel.

Once you've learnt the art of not yelling at me when I'm forced into proximity with you, keep your arms on your side of the arm rest. Don't lean your elbow out and jab me. Sure as hell don't lean over and actually touch my upper arm with yours. This goes double for your legs. If you must use a laptop, don't keep poking me every few seconds when you try to hit the keys. If your size makes it impossible to sit on one seat: write to the train company and complain, do not force your disgusting fat body on other people. Get your damn luggage off the seat next to you and put it on the floor. If you must eat while sitting next to me (you really don't by the way) make sure it doesn't stink. Fish? No. Eggs? No. Samosa? No. No. No. Food aside, make sure YOU don't stink: showering and deodorant are not optional if you use public transport. It is absolutely not OK force people to smell you. Keep yourself to yourself, do not acknowledge anyone and DO NOT MAKE EYE CONTACT.

Unless you're a girl? Then you're all good.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[antifoidulus]

Unless you're a girl? Then you're all good.

I have been on a greyhound bus, I would put a couple of more caveats on that one....

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[martas]

are you a new yorker, by any chance?

i agree with most of that, except the part about not acknowledging anyone and NOT MAKING EYE CONTACT (PRESUMABLY UNDER PENALTY OF DEATH). maybe big city life is different, or maybe it's a northern thing, but i live in a medium-sized somewhat southern city, and most people here seem to welcome eye contact and a simple nod or "hi", and i'm one of them. of course we don't walk around saying hi to everyone we see, but there are lots of times when it seems appropriate.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[dangitman]

So, you're fine with an obese, smelly girl flopping her fat rolls onto you while eating disgusting food?

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[RichardJenkins]

Londonner, which I suppose is close enough. I was being tongue-in-cheek, but eye-contact is something of a taboo on the Tube. I think it stems partly from the frequent aggressive solicitations for cash from vagrants, down-and-outs, beggers and the like. Or maybe vestiges of British reservedness. Perhaps just an unhealthy fear of brief acknowledgement turning into a 40 minutes stare-down.

Anyway, if you're ever in London, on the Tube, at around 6ish, and try bucking this trend - just remember we're usually quite nice people (ie when we know we're able to leg-it if you turn out to be a nutter).

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[satoshi1]

You aren't?

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[RichardJenkins]

Have you met my wife?

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[pete6677]

Since when do you have a right to complete silence on public transportation?

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[martas]

oh i see, so in confined spaces you become paranoid and mortally afraid of human contact... makes sense, in a disturbing, oh god what has mankind turned into sort of way.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[newdsfornerds]

When I lived in Atlanta, it took me a while to realize that the dudes saying hello to me in the men's room were actually -not- trying to hit on me. One thing we don't do up north is say, "how you doin'?" to the guy pissing into the urinal next to ours.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[martas]

seriously? urinal greetings? i thought that was a myth...

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[The Wild Norseman]

Have you met my wife?

I'm not sure; you might remember me however. I was the guy sitting there with a flour sack over his head to make certain no eye contact could have even accidentally been made, trying to silently implode in the most respectful way possible.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[Jedi Alec]

In the Netherlands, it's really funny to see how people avoid making contact on the train...except when there's some sort of issue. Then all of a sudden it's ok to talk, find a six-pack and a deck of cards somewhere and have a good time.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[ArsenneLupin]

Keep yourself to yourself, do not acknowledge anyone and DO NOT MAKE EYE CONTACT.

Agreed about all the rest (personal space, eating, stinking...), but what's wrong with eye contact? I know, US subway etiquette says "no eye contact with anybody", but seriously, what's the issue? Especially since in an overcrowded subway car, you might wind up making eye contact with lots of people unintentionally, unless you are a foot fetishist.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's more like you have a responsibility not to piss people off if you've put them in a position where they can't walk away. At least in civilised parts of the world.

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[Anonymous Coward]

and brush your fucking teeth

Re:Ettiquette on public transport.

[newdsfornerds]

Yeah. It freaked me out for a while. Then I realized it meant nothing.

Call in car

[oldhack]

I found out that I came across as rather rude when called while driving. Made it a practice to pull over and call back if it's important enough. If not, simply agree to chat later.

Costs me some relationship capital to reach this point.

Re:Call in car

[MichaelSmith]

A couple of days ago my wife and I were in the car going somewhere. A street near our house is narrow with parked cars on both sides. Suddenly this motorised wheelchair crosses the road, cutting us off. It is being driven by a disabled woman. So we get going again and turn left into the main road. Lights ahead are read so we join the queue. The woman in the wheelchair overtakes us on the left (we drive on the left here) on the road with a mobile stuck to her right ear. She starts to turn into a car park then stops, presumably because she can't get on the curb with small wheels and nearly gets rear ended by a car going past us on the left to get into the car park.

People don't even follow the "original" list

[JimProuty]

I *like* this original list, and wish people could abide by even these points of etiquette.

* 1. Lower your voice when taking calls in public. * 2. Avoid personal topics when others can hear you. * 3. Avoid taking calls when you're already engaged in a face-to-face conversation. * 4. If you do take a call, ask permission of the people with you. * 5. Avoid texting during a face-to-face conversations. * 6. Put your phone's ringer on "silent" in theaters and restaurants. * 7. Don't light up your phone's screen in a dark theater. * 8. Hang up and drive.

Sure it'd be nice if the author's new points of etiquette would also be followed, but people! Can we all (and by that I mean you all) NOT use any damn cellphones during the movie we all paid $9 or more to see! Geez!

One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[spun]

You live in society, you follow society's stupid rules. Like, you know, wearing clothes, not stinking up the place, pooping only in designated areas, and so forth. We don't need any new rules to cover cell phones: we already have the rule to cover this: don't talk loudly in public places. You see, quiet is a shared resource. If you use up all the quiet, there is no quiet left for anyone else. That's stealing, and stealing is wrong.

Now, I will agree that taking a loud talker's cell phone and jamming it up their rectum is probably an over-reaction, but it really depends on the situation.

Re:One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, I will agree that taking a loud talker's cell phone and jamming it up their rectum is probably an over-reaction, but it really depends on the situation.

No, that's always a bad idea.

Because once their phone is lodged in bowels, they'll need to talk even LOUDER to be heard.

Far better to jam it down their throat, which will shit them right the hell up.

Re:One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[ztransform]

You live in society, you follow society's stupid rules.

Not in London you don't. You throw your garbage anywhere. You park and block people in anytime. You never cover your mouth when you cough, even in crowded metropolitan transport. You cut in line, and start a fight if someone asks you to go to the back of the line. You listen to your leaky cheap Apple headphones as loudly as possible so that everyone in the carriage knows you like Eminem. Oh, and you steal from grocery stores, particularly if it's a crowded New Year's Eve and you and your gang of mates know full well no one can stop you.

If you're Islamic, you get to wear a full head veil and only show your eyes, even in a bank (I've seen this in Ealing)! If you're Sikh you're legally permitted to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

If you're poor, you get to burgle property, threaten the lives of those inside, and watch the owner go to jail when he tries to protect himself.

I could go on...

Re:One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[RobVB]

So basically what you're saying is that London has its own stupid rules.

Re:One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[ArsenneLupin]

Now, I will agree that taking a loud talker's cell phone and jamming it up their rectum is probably an over-reaction, but it really depends on the situation.

With nowadays' tiny tiny phones, they might not even notice. Especially when speaking to somebody with a habit of talking out of their ass...

Re:One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[ArsenneLupin]

You cut in line, and start a fight if someone asks you to go to the back of the line.

Brits cutting in line? In London? What is the world coming to!

Re:One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[Anonymous Coward]

Far better to jam it down their throat, which will shit them right the hell up.

You mean, you'd stuff it down their throats after having jammed it up their rectum?

I like the way you think.

Re:One man's stupid rule is another's etiquette

[catman]

Now, I will agree that taking a loud talker's cell phone and jamming it up their rectum is probably an over-reaction, but it really depends on the situation.

I was tempted, but just talked to her in a not-really-friendly tone: Some kind of social worker on the subway, obviously talking to a client about the client's ailing relationship to her husband. I really should have grabbed the phone and turned it off, but at least the offender realized the error of her ways and hung up. All right - it could have been an emergency situation, but then you get off at the first stop and continue the conversation somewhere more private, there are only about 2 minutes between stops on that line ...

Texting taken more seriously now

[ickleberry]

Back in the winter of 1999 the Irish GSM network Eircell first allowed prepaid users to send SMS - they were free to send and receive and very few people especially my age didn't have phones at the time. Most people switched their phones off at night to save battery or whatever so as long as you weren't deliberately trying to piss someone off you could text who you liked, when you liked. It was mostly just a bit of fun, a new and unusual method to communicate with fellow GSM handset owners.



But its no longer the case, texting has become a more widespread method of communication and therefore more formal. Especially since about 2006/7 when everybody started moving to Facebook with private profile, switched off Bluetooth and basically refused to talk to randomers anymore due to their paranoia.

Now if I meet a girl there is a perfect interval I have to wait
1. Before sending the first text
2. Before replying to a text
3. Before sending a second text after no reply (much longer)
4. Random 'padding' time in addition to these. A constant delay = freaky/stalker-ish

There is also the number of texts I can send without reply before I have to assume she wants absolutely nothing to do with me anymore ever or risk being publicly denounced as a stalker/rapist type person. (usually only 2 or 3)

Before I could send someone a text and they would get it when they are available and have their phone switched on. Now if I wake up at 4am and think of something I have to tell them I have to use a PyS60 script to schedule the text to be sent at a sociable time. Otherwise the person will go around saying "omg, he sent me a text at 4am!!! the crazy stalker, he is awake and thinking about me at 4am! how obsessive! lets call cops now pls kthbai!"

Voice calls are not immune either - I cant call someone out of the blue for a chat, before I could but now they assume there is something wrong with me if I do that. In the early 00's I could call people and talk about an hour and they'd think nothing of it. Now its common to text before call

When you send a text there is also risk that someone wishing to stir up some drama can isolate that particular text from the rest of the conversation and try to pass you off as a bad person.

Re:Texting taken more seriously now

[Anonymous Coward]

Voice calls are not immune either - I cant call someone out of the blue for a chat, before I could but now they assume there is something wrong with me if I do that. In the early 00's I could call people and talk about an hour and they'd think nothing of it. Now its common to text before call

Really? Where does this happen? Back in my neck of the woods they'd call me stupid for texting to ask permission to call (and I'd be glad they did, even).

Re:Texting taken more seriously now

[Anonymous Coward]

You are hanging with the wrong crowd, simple as that.

Re:Texting taken more seriously now

[Tom]

Now its common to text before call

Move. I've never heard this before, and it strikes me as the dumbest thing ever, unless it was created as an artificial meme by the phone companies (because the margin on text messages is almost 100%).

Re:Texting taken more seriously now

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if I meet a girl there is a perfect interval I have to wait

1. Before sending the first text

2. Before replying to a text

3. Before sending a second text after no reply (much longer)

4. Random 'padding' time in addition to these. A constant delay = freaky/stalker-ish

What are these 'perfect intervals'?

1,2 and 3: Exact numbers?
4: Mean and deviation?

Romantically hopeless AC

Celliquett

[AikonMGB]

Can we please call it "celliquette"? ohplz ohplz ohplz!

Aikon-

Re:Celliquett

[godrik]

You're right! let's make a rfc out of it so that no one read it.

Re:Celliquett

[grcumb]

Can we please call it "celliquette"? ohplz ohplz ohplz!

Aikon-

In your case, 'cell-ibacy' would be preferable.

Re:Celliquett

[AikonMGB]

In your case, 'cell-ibacy' would be preferable.

Ha! Well played, sir. Actually I was all proud of myself when I came up with it, but apparently it was far more obvious than I thought as 'celliquette' seems to already be in use out there =/

Aikon-

Music as a ring tone...

[tlambert]

Music as a ring tone...

Also, if you have any kind of music as your ringtone (except for the harp sound on the iPhone) you should be shot. A phone should sound like a phone, not a disco.

Actually, the first day we (all Apple employees at the time)m got our iPhones, we immediately hacked different ring tones onto them. Like less than an hour after we had them. With only the 25 original ring tones and a cafeteria that holds 1600 people, well you do the birthday paradox math.

-- Terry

Re:Music as a ring tone...

[Anonymous Coward]

More like pigeonhole principle.

Re:Music as a ring tone...

[bythescruff]

I had exactly the opposite experience at Symbian: on the day when every Symbian employee was given a Nokia 7650 (the first consumer smartphone) I suggested on an internal chat group that people immediately change their ringtone - as soon as they had the phone in their hand - to anything other than that annoying, piercing Nokia jingle, for the sake of our collective sanity. Needless to say, it didn't happen.

On top of that, the CEO of the company had the loudest, chirpiest ringtone of all, and he used to leave his phone on his desk in his office just down the hall from our cube farm when he went out to lunch. Two things must ye know about CEOs of tech companies: one, they get a *lot* of calls, and two, apparently it's not the done thing to bitch-smack them for being incredibly inconsiderate to their engineering teams...

Re:Music as a ring tone...

[sootman]

No, you don't need the birthday paradox to cover this. 1600/25 = 64 people with each ringtone, assuming even distribution.

The birthday paradox would dictate that with 365 ringtones available, there would be a 50-50 chance that two people would share a ringtone in a group of 23, and 97% with just 50 people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

One more rule i need to learn

[trickyrickb]

clear the damn search history on your phones web browser! What seemed a quite reasonable search query on a dark winters evening, may come back to haunt you when the girl you like asks to borrow your iphone to check her various social networking pages She typed 'my' and safari suggested 'my penis looks like a xenomorph.' My only defense is that it does.

An important rule

[oljanx]

When talking into your blue-tooth headset, DO NOT make eye contact with people in the grocery store. I'm tired of strange people asking me if we need milk, damnit.

Restroom conversations

[InsertCleverUsername]

The occasion that amazes/shocks me the most is the long business call in the bathroom. Every couple of weeks I'll hear somebody inviting a business associate or significant other to come inside the boys' room and have a chat while listening to the sound of their own pissing or (horrors!) defecation. I'm no prude, but jeez... My dog's got a better sense of propriety than that.

My rules

[smd75]

My rules include:
*Call me, If I dont answer leave a message or text me
*If I dont answer and its important, call again right away
*Dont text if we're eating or hanging out
*Dont take a call if your with people unless you are connecting another joining person or it is important but excuse your self
*something I need to be better with: Not using the cell in a car
*Phone is always on vibrate unless Im at home

Tips: Get google voice and forward your phone to it so it texts you a transcript of the message.

Taking phone calls, unless it is important, makes the people around you less important. its rude.
Texting too much shows you want to be with someone else.

Keep with Tradition

[omb]

First, it would be better to have the Butler answer the phone, then he can screen callers too.

If that isn't possible NEVER use a handheld or try to text while driving, either is as bad or worse than drunk driving; and the police should pull over those that do.

Just talking on a hands free phone is no problem, so long as you strictly prioritise what you are paying attention to, the 'car kit' I have in my light plane works well for this, If there is radio incoming, the phone is -4dB, if you push the radio talk button on the stick, the phone is muted, voice mic exclusively to radio (phone cannot overhear tower).

On answering a call I always tell the caller I am flying or driving and if I stop talking it means I am busy. If you have been taught to fly properly then, look round, look back, scan all relevant instruments, repeat, respond to radio FAA required, and phone AS LOWEST priority.

More modern aircraft have HUDs (Head Up Displays) and computer assisted fault monitoring, collision avoidence, radio altimeter ... all of which, plus the sidestick, and super autopilot, with lots of pre-programmed modes eg take off, post take off noise reduction, landing-final all make things like the the Airbus A380 easier than flying a Cessna --- while everything is WORKING.

As Captain Chesley Sullenberger showed, a mis-spent youth as a glider pilot can be very helpful too.

Japanese étiquette

[islicer]

Well, lets follow the Japanese on this one... They are polite while using the phone!

Besides just not being an asshole...

[rAiNsT0rm]

My only other gripe is that movie theaters should have lead roofs/Faraday cages. Either the entire theater or a few rooms where I'd gladly pay extra to watch a film. Place a free emergency land-line on each wall and one directly outside the room.There is ZERO reason to allow phones in a theater. Zero.

And, no, you are not as good of a driver while on a phone. You aren't. No, not even you. Seriously.

Re:Besides just not being an asshole...

[gujo-odori]

I can think of one: certain emergency response personal who are practically always on call. Anything that blocks a cell phone is also going to block a pager.

Concrete example: My wife's OB/GYN. A couple days after he'd delivered our baby by C-section as scheduled, Ie saw him at 3:00 AM in the hall of the hospital. He'd been paged to come in and do a delivery for one of his patients. Now, he probably wasn't at a movie at that time of day, but what if it had been, say, 4:00 PM on a Saturday afternoon and he couldn't be paged because theaters had Faraday cages everywhere?

I know that's an edge case, but the edge cases here are typically surgeons and emergency responders who truly need to be reachable. No argument that we need to get people to stop being assholes with their cellphones, but screwing everyone else because of the conduct of some (OK, many) jerks doesn't seem like the best solution to me.

Re:Besides just not being an asshole...

[rAiNsT0rm]

Then you buy a ticket for the non-blocked theater. There will always be exceptions, but this is done in other countries and they get by just fine.

Re:Besides just not being an asshole...

[gujo-odori]

I don't claim to have been to every country, but I've been to quite a few and never encountered cell phone blocking in theaters. Which countries do this, and how to they handle emergency responder cases? Do they really sell tickets to "unblocked" viewing rooms? (/me firmly places skeptic hat on head.)

Re:Besides just not being an asshole...

[rAiNsT0rm]

"In December 2004, France legalized cell-phone jammers in movie theaters, concert halls and other places with performances. France is finalizing technology that will let calls to emergency services go through. India has installed jammers in parliament and some prisons. It has been reported that universities in Italy have adopted the technology to prevent cheating. Students were taking photos of tests with their camera phones and sending them to classmates."

I accept apologies and monetary donations. You can take your hat off.

A simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Use a cell-phone jammer! This one works well in Canada, and I'm sure it'd be easy to find one on dealextreme for much cheaper.
 
Sure, it's ALSO insensitive and barbaric, but if you use it to stop others from annoying the entire area, you're actually doing everyone else a favour.

Bluetooth headseats as jewelry

[Kozz]

I'd like to add that if you're wearing your Bluetooth earpiece when not on a call, you don't look important, you look like a douchebag. It's not jewelry. I'm not impressed by your command of modern technology or ownership of any fancy blinkenlights attached to the side of your head. Are you expecting an important call from the POTUS or the Pope?

Re:Bluetooth headseats as jewelry

[godrik]

I am the Pope! You insensitive clod!

Re:Bluetooth headseats as jewelry

[Anonymous Coward]

Impostor! http://slashdot.org/~thepope

Re:Bluetooth headseats as jewelry

[pclminion]

I guess you think it's safe for a person to dig around for their headset and put it on while driving a car, then?

Yes, rules are needed

[Locke2005]

My wife spends several hours a day "yelling" into a cell phone in a language I don't understand. The first annoying thing is, she will try to carry on a conversation with me while she is still on the phone with someone else! The second annoying thing requires some explanation: I enrolled my daughter in hula lessons. I taught my daughter she should respect the teacher. On one of the rare occasions when I couldn't take her myself, my wife took her and spent the entire lesson in the dance room talking loudly on her cellphone while the teacher was trying to teach. Apparently it never occurred to her that she could go out in the hall to use her phone! What's worse... they never said anything to her about it. The teacher waited until the next lesson, and then bitched at me about my wife's behavior! News for the world: I have no control over my wife's behavior. In fact, if I tell her to do something, she is much more likely to do the exact opposite, just to prove she doesn't have to do what I say! Last annoying thing: when I need to use a cell, I tend to lock myself in a bathroom, rather than try to compete with the ambient noise. What people don't seem to understand is that past a certain point, speaking louder and closer to the microphone actually makes the conversation LESS intelligible; it overdrives the amplifiers into distortion. And of course, most people's reaction to be told "I can't hear you clearly" is to TALK LOUDER!

Re:Yes, rules are needed

[farble1670]

you are judged by the company you keep. you married her, and guess what? people are going to be lumped in with her bad behavior. as 1920's as this sounds, control you woman. or don't and have her bad behavior attributed to you as well. your choice.

Re:Yes, rules are needed

[Locke2005]

Unfortunately, "smacking the bitch up", while perfectly legal where she comes from, is prohibited by US law. And it's not intentional bad behavior, it's genuine cluelessness. For example, she has a friend who owns a hair salon. She normally charges $150 for hair extensions, but does my wife for free when she can fit her in. And what does my wife do? She usually shows up about 2 hours late for this very generous free treatment. (Her and her friend fight about this all the time, and yes, I side with her friend.) Sure, technically she IS a princess in her culture, but here in the states that is considered pretty rude behavior.

Face to Face

[dasherjan]

From the article" 3. Avoid taking calls when you're already engaged in a face-to-face conversation." When someone does this and walks away is defiantly the most insulting.

Back in the 80s

[Greyfox]

The president of the first company I worked for was on the leading edge of cellphone adoption with the big walkie-talkie brick cellphone. He used to delight into starting up a conversation on the phone, taking it in to the bathroom with him, and continue talking the entire time. That's pretty defines what you get with cell phone users. And if his time was really worth all that much he wouldn't have used so much of it up smoking -- he died in his early 50s during his first chemo treatment for lung cancer.

Re:Back in the 80s

[Doctor Faustus]

I was startled back in 2002 when a former governor of Michigan, who was a member of my company's board and also running for governor again, was talking campaign strategy on a cell phone in the office bathroom. You would think a reasonably major politician would have some clue about etiquette...

Mod Parent Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

I only wish I had mod points today.

Best. Quote. Ever.

[Tyler Durden]

"A visitor from another planet might conclude that rudeness is a cell phone's main purpose."

A-fuckin'-men.

You're right.

[Anonymous Coward]

The toilet is the best time time play some Gameboy.

Re:Manufacturers should adress "that loud guy" iss

[TBoon]

I'd imagine that Mr. Loud Guy wouldn't want such a phone. For some silly/misunderstood reasoning such that "the darn thing keep yelling my own voice back in my ear so loud I have to hold it away from my ear, and can't hear the other person", or other features/indications that are there to help improve voice levels and clarity, but without realizing why they are there, and how it works, just annoyes the user...

Here's a few

[sjames]

When checking out at any store, do NOT ignore the cashier while talking on the phone. The rest of us would like to check out as well.

When talking and pacing, try not to trample people around you.

If you're talking to someone in person and get a phone call, either politely end your face to face conversation or tell the caller you'll call back later. Do not put the actual person in front of you "on hold" and expect them to just stand there while you shoot the bull with your buds on the phone.

Do NOT expect to have privacy while yelling into your cellphone out in public. If your conversation is not for public consumption, go somewhere private. If your side of your "private" conversation suggests that you have the clap, I reserve the right to point, laugh, and make snide comments to my friends.

Re:Here's a few

[cptnapalm]

I'd like a cashier that doesn't ignore the customer because she's gabbing on the phone.

Re:Here's a few

[Des Herriott]

When checking out at any store, do NOT ignore the cashier while talking on the phone. The rest of us would like to check out as well.

Agreed - that's one of the rudest, most pig-ignorant kinds of behaviour I've witnessed. It is treatable, however, with this.

Do jammers work?

[cellurl]

Have any of you gents actually witnessed a jammer?
Q: Do they work?

Help Hatians, then help speeders

Re:Do jammers work?

[Archon-X]

Yes, and yes.
First instance of one 'in the wild' was when I grabbed a cab in barcelona. Saw a small black box w/ 3 antennas that looked suspiciously like cell-band harmonic lengths. Asked the cabby why he had a cell phone jammer, and he said it was to combat rude people who sat there and screamed on the phone. People who used the phone w/ étiquette: no problems. Is it his call to make? It's his cab, tough call.

You can buy them cheaply now from Deal Extreme.

Note, these things (at least in a lot of places) are highly illegal.

Please shut up!

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's easy to be rude with a cell phone. A visitor from another planet might blahblahblah"

Shut up!
I'm on the phone

click-click-click-click

[ubungy]

How about the click-click-click-click-click-click-click of someone directly behind me in class. After about the 20th click or so, less if they text slower, I start to feel a rage. I don't even own a cell phone, way overrated. Oh, and spare me the "But you'd be glad you had one if......", even in hindsight, never would a situation have been resolved better with a cell phone. Believe it or not, you can stay outside the bubble, and things happen just as fast or slow as they do in it.

Rule #9

[gelfling]

Trade in your burro for the 21st century. We get it; you're outraged. You wore an onion on your belt cuz that the style of the time.

No.

[Anonymous Coward]

[adult swim]

It's not a technology issue

[Anonymous Coward]

Japanese cellphone users are Japanese.
American cellphone users aren't.

This is old

[cptnapalm]

The remote person on the mechanical device being of primary importance over those present is OLD. There was an article I read which brought up how when home telephones became ubiquitous, there was a problem because it would be rude to the people who are right there to be ignored while the home owner chatted with someone who was not there. But the phone wouldn't stop ringing, so people would answer to inform the remote person that a conversation was not possible at the moment, but they would receive a return call. That gradually withered away and the mechanical noise machine won out. Those present would just have to wait.

Typical cell phone usage is simply a continuation.

Cellphones have changed?

[PPH]

The rude factor has always been there. The only change in the technology that might prompt better manners is their smaller size. They are easier to insert into the bodily orfices of an offending caller than a Motorola DynaTAC was.

Here's a link: cell phones as bad as driving drunk

[Anonymous Coward]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6090342-7.html

Huh?

[b4upoo]

I thought social barbarism was a goal. " I pledge impertinance to the flag waving of the unindicted co-conspirators of America and to the Republicans that I can't stand." Or more simply put screw the status quo.

How About Cellphones and Internet

[aplusjimages]

I was in line at the grocery store yesterday and this lady was taking too long in line. I was tempted to snap a photo of her and post it on my facebook with a rude caption under it. That's the future of mobile devices with internet.

Everyone loves to bitch about where they live

[spun]

Have you ever been to the USA? I was just visiting London, and I saw something different. I saw a hell of a lot more politeness and courtesy than I've seen in some American cities. Maybe that's just because I was in the touristy areas.

I spent some time in the country, near Peterborough, and I guess people were a little nicer there, maybe. But not a big difference. I don't know, I like you chaps. You see societal decay, I see you all taking the stick out of your arse a little bit.

What say you come visit America, then you can complain all you like. Or go to Germany. Or France. Seriously, have you been outside of your country at all?

Re:Everyone loves to bitch about where they live

[ztransform]

Seriously, have you been outside of your country at all?

I'm a foreigner.

Riiiiiiiiight.

[Aggrav8d]

"or we'll descend into social barbarism."

When did we ascend out of barbarism?

Etiquette assisted by technology

[ALeader71]

I agree. Cell phone use, partuclarly texting, as taken over how many people communicate. In the interests of civility, and safety, technology can help by providing opt-out or opt-in options:

- opt-out: Don't text me, call or email instead
- opt-in: text-only messaging mode. A sort of "airplane mode" but for privacy. The voice mail message will offer the caller the opportunity to send a text.
- opt-out: while driving. Pair your phone with a car, set the car's options to block all notifications or re-direct all notifications to another service while the car is in motion.
- opt-out: conversation mode via a button or via an app. Silence the phone for a set period of time in five minute increments.

Offer these as convenience features and see what happens. You can't force etiquette, but you can make it easy to enact.

Loudness

[BCW2]

If you can't be heard talking in a normal voice and need to be extra loud, be prepared to be bitch slapped into silence.

Five years ago...

[Anonymous Coward]

...is that when this was written? Other than google voice, but that doesn't make it a worthwhile article.

Re:Sometimes, you just gotta get down in the gutte

[noidentity]

I'd love to do something like that to annoying people on the bus, but I'm always concerned about retaliation the next time I encounter the person outside the bus. I don't want to be looking over my shoulder all the time.

Yes indeed

[fyngyrz]

Solution: Ignore the phone while driving and call back when at your destination.

You've got the right idea. Here's what I do:

• Keep ringer volume near zero, and/or use vibrate.
• Phone rings during a meal: Don't answer. Perhaps call back later.
• Phone rings while talking to someone else: Don't answer. Perhaps call back later.
• Phone rings while driving: Don't answer. Don't pull over. Perhaps return call later.
• Phone rings, caller id/number hidden: Don't answer. The caller is "That guy." Screw that guy.
• Never answer the phone in public. Otherwise "You're that guy." Refuse incoming calls as quickly as possible.

Also, as a courtesy:

• Don't call people when you're eating.
• Don't call people when you're with friends.
• Don't call people when you think they're likely to be eating.
• Don't call people outside of normal waking hours, or, their waking hours.
• Turn off the cellphone before the first kiss. Cellphones and intimacy are like ammonia and bleach.

And finally, for your own sanity:

• Build a whitelist (most phones support groups.) Use a particular ringer for these people.
• Everything else gets a different ringer. Or none at all, if your phone allows that.

Most importantly, be aware of this general rule: If the cellphone is interfering with your life, or with other people's lives, you're not using it very well, and you should modify your behavior (and likely, your cellphone's settings.)

Re:Yes indeed

[wiz_80]

My personal solution in situations where I can't talk, e.g. driving in heavy traffic or city, is to answer the call using one button, either on the steering wheel if I'm in my car or on my ear-piece if I'm not, and ask the caller to send me an e-mail about it so that I can read it at my leisure.

That said, hands-free systems and long motorway journeys make for some of my most productive phone times.

And no, I don't answer the phone in the restaurant unless it's one of /those/ numbers, in which case I apologize to my tablemates and go outside to take the call. The same applies if I am with someone else while not at the table. Trains - I generally travel in the "working stiff" carriages, where everybody is on the phone and/or laptop anyway, so unless you are shouting at the top of your voice it's completely unremarkable. No caller ID - that still describes a lot of landlines around here, so I can't just default to not answering.

I do on the other hand find it incredible how many people still use phones in their hand while driving, especially in city traffic. What makes it even worse is that where I live most cars have manual transmissions, so all sorts of juggling is required to steer and change gear while still keeping the phone against the head. When I come to power, everyone will be issued with paintballs to pepper the cars of people doing this.

Re:Yes indeed

[Archangel Michael]

People calling forget the obvious .... PERHAPS I'm not in a place where I can answer a phone the moment you call. You know, like taking a leak, or having Carnal Relations with my wife.

And calling me back repeatedly as if I missed the first three times doesn't actually help. I don't care if you think I'm on 24 hour duty at work, you don't pay me enough to stop *whatever* I am doing to take your "MY PRINTER ISN'T WORKING" phone call.

I'll call you back when it is convenient for me.

Thanks

One more thing:

[fyngyrz]

Running a business? Operating a counter? The person you're talking to across the counter is 100x more important than anyone who calls you and they were there first. If the phone rings, either someone else should answer it (preferably elsewhere), or your answer is: Hi, this is Leroy. I have a customer at the counter. You'll be on hold for a while, or you can call back, or come on down. [click]

Have some respect for your cashiers

[Alarindris]

On behalf of everyone in the service industry:

Put your phone down when you are being checked out! It's rude as fuck!

Re:Have some respect for your cashiers

[crimperman]

And to small shop cashiers on behalf of your customers:

Put your phone down when you are serving and have the decency to tell us how much the total is.
To continue speaking on your phone while just holding out your hand will lose you customers.

My personal opinion

[Gaygirlie]

While it probably doesn't interest anyone I'll still write it down here: Answers and opinions about listed "rules": 1. Agreed, some people just freaking shout in the phone when it'd be perfectly fine to speak less loudly. 2. This one I disagree with. If you don't like the topic at hand then don't listen to it (though if the person isn't following rule #1 then it's harder. But then again, it's more that the loudness is wrong, not the topic). It really depends on the person what topics are considered too personal and what aren't, you can't please everyone. Just avoid talking about sex, drugs, alcohol or making racistic comments when there's children around. 3. Why? I always answer the phone to check what it is. If it's nothing important then I just say I'll call back later, and if it is indeed something urgent then good thing I answered the call! Heck, I think people who get offended by you answer a phone call quickly are just offended way too easily. I'd rather say that when you answer the call do keep the length of the conversation to bare minimum and call back later if it's nothing urgent. 4. See above. 9. Now, this is an odd one. I haven't expressed such myself. Maybe it's a US carrier issue? Anyways, in real life it happens sometimes that both of you start talking at the same time and then stop at the same time. I usually just solve it by saying that the other person can continue, I'll continue after him/her. 11. If you feel bad about such, get offended or something then you're just too easily offended IMHO. Just ignore it and continue the conversation, geesh. Besides, it'd be better to say "The call was dropped", instead of placing blame on either party's phone.

New rules?

[Anonymous Coward]

I always find it strange that people think "new rules are needed" simply because the old rules were written for slightly different circumstances. Now, I am not saying that we don't have to rethink things now and then, but usually, there is a fairly obvious and reasonable way to adapt existing rules to new circumstances. That is why most people are annoyed by the people talking loudly into their cell phones. It is already not socially acceptable to have excessively loud conversations in public. No new rules of etiquette are needed; the old ones still apply.

Not in Japan.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here, no one talks on their cellphone on the train, in a restaurant or workplace.

You're all dinosaurs!

[Anonymous Coward]

In the olden days, when you wanted to phone someone you had to get off the bus and use a payphone or wait until you got home. If someone was trying to get in touch with you it was even worse. What I'm reading here is a bunch of crotchety old farts whining about kids these days just a-talkin' to people in public, without even the decency to duck into a corner. Frankly I love it. I love the buzz of all the different conversations and, for myself, the efficiency of not having to just sit like a lump for 45 minutes (I get carsick reading on buses). Every once in a while you get the annoying drama-queen/attention-whore yelling about her anal warts but you also get the charm of a dozen conversations in a dozen languages. I think it is kind of cool that you can get on the train and see fully half the passengers actually living their lives instead of doing the elevator routine for 20 minutes.

As for cell phones and driving. In my opinion, if you are driving between Merritt and Chase, use a headset and power to you. It's a long boring drive and a conversation might help keep you awake. If you're trying to get onto the Hudson from the GWB in rush hour, that's probably not a good time to be texting.

The premise is flawed...

[NateTech]

... because "rude" is an ever-changing non-objective target.

Change the definition of "rude" and the problem disappears.

Re:Sometimes, you just gotta get down in the gutte

[anss123]

I'd love to do something like that to annoying people on the bus, but I'm always concerned about retaliation the next time I encounter the person outside the bus. I don't want to be looking over my shoulder all the time.

No, your great fear should be getting them as your boss. It's more likely than some random encounter. Trust me.

don't reinvent the wheel...

[Tom]

...travel to Japan. They solved this problem ten years ago.

A few years ago, I was in Tokio for a week. During that entire time, I heard a grand total of two cell phones ringing - they both belonged to foreigners. Every japanese carries a cell phone and uses it constantly. And still you don't hear them ringing and you almost never hear anyone talking.

The secret is simple, everyone has it on vibrate (it works, don't listen to the antisocial assholes who invent reasons why it wouldn't, real-life experience shows that's all bullshit) and secondly, everyone knows that the microphone is sensitive and doesn't need to be shouted at. Actually speaking into the microphone allows you to almost whisper and still be heard clearly at the other side. In fact, due to less distortion at the high end, probably more clearly than shouting.

There's no need for a new etiquette, just for a reminder to the old one: Don't be a nuissance to people around you. Everyone who needs a checklist to accomplish that has troubles running deeper than a checklist would solve.

many think they are intelligent enough

[Anonymous Coward]

and many think they are intelligent enough when they believe that such accidents don't happen to them because it has never happened before, they don't know that the more they talk on the phone while engaging in a mind-exhaustive activity that requires attention like driving a car on a highway the more chances are there they could end up in an accident. Worse still, I have a brother who all the time keeps fidgeting around his car when he's driving, he can't stop checking his pockets, reaching for his phone on the dashboard, getting his pack of cigarettes from the side-pocket of the door and looking for the lighter all around the car while flipping radio channels, it is just such a teasing behavior that I couldn't change because he thinks he's being vigilant enough... I am imagining if someone was doing all of this and at the same time smoking a joint.. Man, they'd be scattered in debris with funny smiles up on their faces

Re:Sometimes, you just gotta get down in the gutte

[noidentity]

The best approach seems to be something BOFH-like: retaliate against the annoying person, but not in a way he can trace back to you. So on the bus, you might say something without your mouth being visible to the annoying person, and be sure not to move differently during or after saying it. Maybe even look back as if to try to find who said that.

All this has happened before,and will happen again

[Hurricane78]

Cell phones need their own rules of etiquette, or we'll descend into social barbarism.

The same was said about every new technology, since the dawn of humanity. I bet cavemen said this about fire, keeping the youth up all night, doing stupid stuff.

Protip: No it won’t. Humanity will adapt. If will balance itself. Hundreds of thousands of years of human existence prove it.
So quit the fearmongering.
The only reason you’re doing it, is to get us to swallow your rules of what you wish society to be and act like.
Well, you can fuck right off with that. You won’t get that power. Because first you have to get trough me.

Re:Sometimes, you just gotta get down in the gutte

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Maybe the problem isn't that some people are rude but that that the majority of people allow the mouth breathers to act the way they do. Whatever happened to social pressure ? It's not that rude behavior has somehow become socially acceptable but that the silent majority doesn't want to speak up for some reason. Good on you for doing so.

It's all culture-specific, really.

[Kream]

coming from an Indian context, it's considered not rude in the least to answer your cellphone when you're in a restaurant even with friends or family. No restaurants here have rules against cellphones... it's just considered quite ordinary that someone may want to talk to someone else who's not there in the restaurant. In movie theatres, if you speak on your cellphone for a long time you'll get shushed but messaging is considered quite acceptable. I think it's a function of the fact that people live very social lives here and that by western standards, any part of even small towns would contain crowds of people.

There's very little privacy/solitude, relatively speaking, so an intrusion of a cellphone in the normal hubbub of daily life is not a significant addition.

Smartphones and Twitter

[Jim Hall]

For me, I'm not so much bothered by people speaking loudly on their phones (although I see it happen all the time.) It's the availability to tweet from fucking everywhere. I have friends that are on Twitter, it's really annoying. Go out with some friends for the evening, dinner and hang out. A few times during the evening, someone pulls out their phone, does something, puts it away. I first thought they were checking some page from work. Then I discovered that they'd been tweeting the whole freaking night.

You know, I can see what you are doing there.

To me, tweeting what I'm saying to the whole world is rude. Apparently not everyone sees it that way. I've mentioned it, asked "hey, can you not tweet this tonight?" but it never really sinks in.

Twitter is like crack for ADD. Smartphones are an enabler for it.

single-page link

[vegiVamp]

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9147558/Here_comes_the_new_cell_phone_etiquette?taxonomyName=Mobile+and+Wireless&taxonomyId=15

Smoking, Reading, Radio, Eating...Cell Phones

[realsilly]

There are so many reasons for accidents and it isn't just Cell phone calling or texting. People do all the wrong things while driving. However, since this article is about cell phones I'll put that one on the list first...
  * Cell Phone talking
  * Texting
  * Dr.s Pagers
  * Eating Fast Food
  * Changing the DVD for the kids
  * Looking at the GPS
  * Smoking
  * Changing the radio station
  * Changing CDs
  * Reading the News Paper
  * Working on your Laptop
  * Having sex with someone else (any form)
  * Having Sex with yourself (any form)
  * Being too sleepy
  * Being too sad
  * Being too happy
  * Being Drunk
  * Being High
  * Talking to other people in the car
  * Putting / Removing on Makeup
  * Changing clothes
  * Watching for cops

This is a small portion of the list of things that disract drivers

How spread out ARE you?

[Anonymous Coward]

How spread out ARE you? There's a lot of country, but what is the average journey into work? Not much more than Europe.

Your cities are hugely dense and your population mostly urban.

So how spread out ARE you?

Not much, I would say.

Re:Simple

[vertinox]

I mean, I kind of agree with you, many people shouldn't be driving and we pay a 55,000 person a year toll in deaths from accidents. But what's the alternative?

Automated cars like Stanley.

Answer the cell phone thusly: Hang on

[Degrees]

And then leave the movie / conference / restaurant / dinner party for some place outside where your conversation isn't going to bother everyone else.

The caller chose to interrupt whatever it was you are doing. For that, they get "Hang on" and silence until you can relocate to a place where their interruption isn't so annoying to the rest of us.

I'm not sure why this isn't rule #1.

Any...

[Anonymous Coward]

Any person versed in etiquette will tell you that using or answering a cell phone, or even having one turned is a no-no in any restaurant, movie theater, store, or pretty much any other publicly accessible building. I agree!!!!.

I'm more important than everyone around me

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that one of the most valuable uses of a cell phone is to remind everyone around us that they are not interesting enough to maintain our attention. Most of these rules are a weak attempt at reducing the effectiveness of this message.

We need

[Anonymous Coward]

We need cell-phone booths. They work much like old-fashioned phone booths, but you bring your own phone.

New Rules?

[awyeah]

FFS. I suppose that some people would need to have rules explained to them. I think it's just a reflection of the lack of common sense.

Here are a few of my favorites:

3. Avoid taking calls when you're already engaged in a face-to-face conversation.

Am I the only one that thinks that saying "excuse me, I have to take this" is rude, even though "excuse me" was said?

4. If you do take a call, ask permission of the people with you.

I suppose under very limited circumstances (example: Your mom is really sick and your dad is calling).

5. Avoid texting during a face-to-face conversations.

Again, really? Before texting existed, did we just start doing other things while people were talking to us?

6. Put your phone's ringer on "silent" in theaters and restaurants.

Common sense. Everyone gets a free pass for forgetting once in a while, I guess, but it should just be a habit by now.

8. Hang up and drive.

When exactly was driving not the top priority when... driving?

This article is garbage. Anyone who needs to have "cell phone etiquette" explained to them is someone who is not going to ever practice said etiquette.

No Bathroom use please

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't stand it when I'm in a bathroom stall doing my business, and an assh&le in the next stall is clicking on his blackberry. You shouldn't be touching anything in the bathroom anyway. Do your thing, and leave. The email can wait!!!