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Game Distribution Platforms Becoming Annoyingly Common

The Escapist's Shamus Young recently posted an article complaining about the proliferation of distribution platforms and social networks for video games. None of the companies who make these are "quite sure how games will be sold and played ten years from now," he writes, "but they all know they want to be the ones running the community or selling the titles." Young continues, "Remember how these systems usually work: The program sets itself up to run when Windows starts, and it must be running if you want to play the game. If you follow this scheme to its logical conclusion, you'll see that the system tray of every gaming PC would eventually end up clogged with loaders, patchers, helpers, and monitors. Every publisher would have a program for serving up content, connecting players, managing digital licenses, performing patches, and (most importantly) selling stuff. Some people don't mind having 'just one more' program running in the background. But what happens when you have programs from Valve, Stardock, Activision, 2k Games, Take-Two, Codemasters, Microsoft, Eidos, and Ubisoft? Sure, you could disable them. But then when you fire the thing up to play a game, it will want to spend fifteen minutes patching itself and the game before it will let you in. And imagine how fun it would be juggling accounts for all of them."

349 comments

  1. Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually for once EA is doing it correctly. You have 4 ways to buy their games (that I know of):

    1) Physical product from store
    2) Steam (where you get the goodness of Steam services and social aspects)
    3) Direct2Drive
    4) EA's own store and download manager

    You can buy your game from any place you prefer. If you buy from other places, you won't get EA's own download manager or things. That's how it should - buyer can choose the platform he prefers. For me that is (unsurprisingly) Steam.

    I'm sure not all people like the social gaming aspects of Steam and other platforms, but I do enjoy them. It's easy to play with friends or chat in-game (good with multiplayer games). But for those who don't like them, they can be turned off. I never buy from physical stores anymore, it's a lot more convenient to buy from Steam and almost instantly get to play it. I always keep wishing I could do the same with my PS3 or 360, but they usually only have the smaller games in their stores and I have to order the "real" games via post.

    Good example of social aspects in Steam is also that via MW2 I've got many interesting players on my friend list so that theres always someone to play with, but they don't bother me if I'm not playing. It's more fun to play with the people you somewhat, even if very vaguely know.

    1. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just so we're clear: you're renting the ability to play. When, not if, they go belly up, you've just got a hard drive full of random bits.

      Don't get me wrong, I use and love Steam (it even works well through Wine on Ubuntu) but I'm under no illusions about ownership.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You actually don't own the games you buy physically either. You're getting a license to use them, like with any other software.

      But more than that, I don't think that will be such a big issue though. What are the changes that Steam will go away anytime soon? And even if it happens in lets say 20-30 years, that's still many years. Many of the games I bough in 90's are too scratched, lost somewhere along the years or do not work with current operating systems and are unplayable now. Doesn't bother me too much, theres great new games now.

    3. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Steam usually operates fine in off-line mode for single player games. And the trade-off of getting integral patch updates, being able to delete and restore a game at will, the low cost of downloadable games (especially ancient ones) and being able to transfer games to another client without media are all big advantages for most players. They seem well worth the risk of losing the Steam servers.

    4. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Informative

      Valve has stated before that if they do go belly-up they would release a patch so that you could play all of your games without getting onto the steam network. That or I would expect some hackers to crack it.

      That is of course assuming Valve doesn't try to sell Steam.

    5. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by ImNotAtWork · · Score: 1

      If the company goes belly up some one will step up to the plate and release a liberation patch whether officially or unofficially. Just keep your documentation of purchases and no sane judge will give a damn about what you did to access files that you bought that are on your machine.

      --
      open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
    6. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If there's any video game developer I'd trust to not fuck everyone over, it's definitely Valve. They've got to be the single most community-oriented developer out there right now.

    7. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Vanderhoth · · Score: 1

      sane judge

      They still exist? I thought you could only see their bones in museums and read about them in history texts. huh, Go figure.

    8. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      also your licence doesn't expire. if you manage to borrow a game in a legal way, you can still play it as you have your licence. heck, by their terms i could sign a paper which transfer you my licence to some game and if they found you playing it in some way they have no grasps at you

    9. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That depends on where you live.

      In many countries you actually buy the software contained on the physical medium and are free to do whatever you want with it. This includes reselling it, decompiling it, changing it, whatever.

      E.g. in Germany EULAs are only legally binding if you were already presented with them while buying the software. Eulas presented while installing the software or just present in the packaging are unenforcable.

    10. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by poena.dare · · Score: 1

      You have excellent points. Unfortunately, when I'm cut off from my games I just go max impotent nerdrage. So, to save the lives of my family, I stay away from Steam.

    11. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by wertigon · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That's how it should - buyer can choose the platform he prefers.

      Amen to that brother, amen.

      One can even take it further. I've often wondered what the difference between Steam, iTunes and The pirate bay is. Because the way I see it, there is no *significant* difference. The difference is about the same difference as Verizon, AT&T and T-mobile.

      Now, don't get me wrong. There are differences between the three. The pirate bay, for instance, has no control over what floats through their trackers, which means quality often is hit-and-miss, and viruses are rampant. And now I'm only talking about the legal (e.g. filesharing CC-licensed content) aspect, not all the warez and pr0n. But for all intents and purposes, iTunes and TPB is essentially the same service.

      So, what happens when lots of similar centralized services appear and we get a giant mess? Answer: Develop some open and decentralized protocols to clean it up! Thankfully, the open protocols are more or less already here (cue XMPP, HTTP and Bittorrent), now all someone needs to do is glue them together in a coherent way, make a nice packaging and release it under one brand. Here's how I'd like it to work:

      1. Joe. A. User opens up his Digital Store(tm) client.
      2. Joe selects one of many interesting stores in his "bookmarks" list. Think of it as a webbrowser.
      3. Joe wants to check out that nifty game, Quake 2037 that he keeps hearing so much about. So Joe clicks on that title.
      4. Joe gets directed to a page where he's asked to fill in his Credit Card details. Joe complies.
      5. Purchase is now completed. Joe is granted access to download the game. The game can be on a server owned by the Digital Store(tm), on a server owned by the game developer, or perhaps on a bittorrent tracker. The "where" is not that important, only that Joe gets his game. Where it is is up to the content deliverer, whom does not have to be the same as the Digital Store(tm).
      6. Joe has now downloaded his game and can start playing it. Happy playing! :D

      Before anyone says "WTF, security holes! o_O;;" yes, there are a few in the above scenario, but they can be fixed. The important part here is that there's *one* program to get your music/movies/games/warez/whatever from, and that one connects to a lot of different stores. The stores in turn have deals with content producers, that is, the artists, game developers, writers etc. Since the standard is open, someone will make it dead easy to set up your own store, thus avoiding the big cartels. Voila, the distribution of the future is solved!

      It's too bad MAFIAA won't ever let it happen... :(

      --
      systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
    12. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by ethorad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, because if they go belly up they'll definitely have the time and resources to come up with a patch to let you play their games. Plus I very much doubt the insolvency practitioner /debtor / purchaser will be willing to let them have funds.

      The only way I'd believe that claim is if the patch had alread been written (and was kept updated with changes to the system) and in the hands of a third party to be released on a list of conditions - such as the servers going dark.

    13. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Yes, but at the sight of you they tend to go crazy again and pass irrational judgements against you.

    14. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by mr_da3m0n · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, I can't seem for the life of me to find the original article, but I recall clearly that Gabe Newell stated that Valve has a decryption key ready to go out, at the press of a button in case they go belly up.

    15. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Xest · · Score: 1

      I really dislike Steam, because even games bought in store that use it depend on Valve deciding whether or not you're allowed to play the game. See people who imported Modern Warfare 2 which is perfectly legal to do but Valve revoking their access to the game because they didn't buy it from the retail channels Valve/Activision wanted them to buy it through or didn't just buy it through Steam.

      Other than that, I just don't like the way Valve is going. It started off great- bare minimum DRM, fixed prices in US dollars worldwide. Nowadays however, the DRM has gotten worse and Valve has got to the point where they're leveraging their strong downloadable games platform to try and price gouge (see above MW2 example) which is not a good thing.

      I hate the fact Steam just randomly downloads updates chewing up every last byte of my bandwidth with no way to control it too meaning it eats up some of my peak time bandwidth allowance that I have to suffer in the UK. For this reason I keep Steam closed most the time.

      Personally I still just order disc-based games online to come through the post where I can, I really don't want to deal with companies that try and remove my ability to shop around for a lower price, and who force me to register with them to play, and who force me to let them choose when I can/can't play.

      "I always keep wishing I could do the same with my PS3 or 360, but they usually only have the smaller games in their stores and I have to order the "real" games via post."

      The XBox 360 has sold retail games from the marketplace for about 6 months now, but I don't know about the PS3. The selection isn't as big as it could be, but it's got plenty of top games on there. I don't know if they intend to ramp this up or not to start including the latest releases, but it'd be nice if they did.

    16. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      You have read about the DMCA laws, haven't you? It doesn't matter what your intent is, if you're bypassing copy protection and other physical measures then you're automatically in league with the devil/paedophiles/terrorists. And that's just the start of the law - the big name companies seem to want to push it even further!

    17. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by ethorad · · Score: 1

      That's certainly good news, hadn't heard that. I just always get suspicious of companies that promise to do things at a point when they have lost control of their company. It's good if Valve has already written it and so won't need resources to develop.

    18. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      The only way I'd believe that claim is if the patch had alread been written

      It is.

    19. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by IBBoard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It depends on your local law as to how enforceable the EULA is. I bought a game, I didn't pay for a license (at least not as far as it was presented to me). If nothing else, physical copies of the game will still work even if you do violate some obscure license clause ("you can't play this game while wearing red socks"), where as Steam and similar DRMed games are dead in the water as soon as your "license" to play is pulled.

      As for your old games, just because you've lost or scratched them doesn't mean that everyone else has. Not working in current OSes is normally easily resolved with DOS Box/ScummVM or some other emulator.

    20. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 1

      See people who imported Modern Warfare 2 which is perfectly legal to do but Valve revoking their access to the game because they didn't buy it from the retail channels Valve/Activision wanted them to buy it through or didn't just buy it through Steam.

      The issue wasn't that simple. This is what g2play replied to me after asking why MW2 was removed from my steam account:

      Hello mate

      Recently we have aquired Call of Duty MW2 keys from a supplier who showed up to get them in unlegitimate way.
      We had unfortunatley no idea about this since the price offered to us was notcheap and the profit margin for us on these transactions is very low.

      We may offer you 3 possible solutions for this issue:
      1. Eiether we refund your payment via PayPal
      2. We give you any other game in similar value
      3. We will recieve another pack of Call of Duty MW2 keys from verified supplier probably in 48 hours (max after weekend ). We can then replace you your current key of course.

      Best
      G2PLAY.net Team

      I also bough left4dead 2 the same day from them and Valve didn't do anything about that, nor have I heard they're doing anything about the new keys sold by g2play. If a reseller has acquired and sold stolen/hacked/whatever keys (not blaming g2play here but their supplier!), I think it's withing Valve's right to revoke those keys. And Valve just revoked the key and told to ask for refund from the reseller.

    21. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're giving them awfully lot of credit. Check the Steam EULA. You don't have ANY right to play the game you bought. According to the EULA, you donate money to Steam and they'll let you play their game should they feel like it. No guarantees though.

    22. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by YojimboJango · · Score: 1

      Also to that same tune you're renting those discs you buy. When, not if, those discs go bad you'll just have a glorified plastic coaster.

      Now I know most discs have about a natural 7-14 year lifespan unless we're talking special storage. My personal experience tells me 7 years is lucky. So the real question is: Will Steam last longer than my discs?

      For me it already has. Curse you NwN:Hoards of the Underdark disk :(

    23. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Valve has stated before that if they do go belly-up they would release a patch

      Or maybe if they go belly-up, they won't have the money to release a patch? Nahhhh....

    24. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There needs to BE a company to file the complaint though. DMCA is still semi-civil law (insane penalties withstanding), no owner = no complaint = no problem.

    25. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      You actually don't own the books you buy physically either. You're getting a license to read them, like with any other information.

      But more than that, I don't think that will be such a big issue though. What are the changes that Steam will go away anytime soon? And even if it happens in lets say 20-30 years, that's still many years. Many of the books I bough in 90's are too blotched and water damaged, lost somewhere along the years or the type is too small and are unreadable now. Doesn't bother me too much, theres great new books now.

      I think Stallman had a point with his right to read thing.
      Bearded hippy though he be.

    26. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by TOGSolid · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, not entirely useless. I keep all of my Steam games backed up to an offline profile so that even if Steam did go tits up, I'll still be playing my games quite happily. Most of the non-Valve games don't even need Steam to be in online mode for their multiplayer to work.

    27. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 1

      Uh what? You do own the books you buy. Immaterial and material products are different cases. You can't compare them directly. Even if the pro-piracy guys always like to point out that copying != stealing or their stupid reasoning that copying something doesn't take anything off from someone and can't really see the larger picture.

    28. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HungryHobo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      also sopssa- do you work for steam? every one of your posts in this topic seems to boil down to "everything about steam is fantastic in every way and I love that this way I don't don't have to own anything and DRM is the best thing ever" or have I misjudged your attitudes from your posts.

    29. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Aradiel · · Score: 1

      Unless it's Fair Use/Dealing... They really need to change those laws so that they take into account consumer rights a bit more - for example, I have trouble using some software because of the stupid DRM, so it should be considered fair use for me to rip the CDs purely so that I can actually run the software.

    30. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Writing the patch costs money and it will never make any. Just sayin'...

    31. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Price gouging? If you'd bothered to find out, you'd know that the game distributor is responsible for the pricing of the games, not Steam.

      Randomly downloads updates? Again, if you'd bothered to find out, you'd know that you can turn off automatic updating of games.

    32. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 3, Funny

      So now I work for Microsoft, Opera Software, Steam, Google, Infinity Ward, Logitech and (interestingly) Red Hat. That makes my work days 56 hours long, which leaves me -32 hours per day to dick around. Man.

    33. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Bankrupt companies do not phase into a void: they are sliced in marketable packages that are sold for several pennies each.

      One package include all the hard drives in the server farm, maybe the server farm itself - and another the ownership rights to the blockbuster titles of yester-decades.

      If Steam goes bankrupt, EA will buy off everything they have for a dollar and then lay waste to the remains. Your game will not come out of copyright, but a penny-pincher you've probably never heard of will now own it.

    34. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Informative

      What are the changes that Steam will go away anytime soon?

      I said the same thing when I bought my 2008 Pontiac Solstice.

      I remember some years ago a friend bought a bunch of music from a music service from Microsoft. I've forgotten the name now (or maybe I've blocked it out). The friend told me it was easy to use and they had all sorts of labels and artists. The only catch was that Microsoft had to "refresh" your licenses to keep the music files playing. I remember telling him it didn't seem like a good idea, and he said "what are the chances that Microsoft would go away any time soon?"

      Today, he's got an external hard drive full of bits that he can't listen to. I've seen this with my own eyes. When he tries to open them, some dialog box pops up telling him that he has to connect to some Microsoft service to refresh his licenses and then he tries and nothing happens.

      Many of the games I bough in 90's are too scratched

      That's why we'd like to be able to make copies of our game disks, including the ones for consoles.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    35. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      Citation needed. Say it as authoritatively as you like, without proof it's just hearsay. "Somebody at Valve said so" isn't proof. A legal document, registered in the jurisdiction that Valve does business in stating that the company is obligated to ensure that this gets top priority in the face of all other creditor obligations etc. is about the only conclusive evidence I'd accept. Anything else is just promises to fuel rationalization and wishful thinking.

      And ... a patch? Written already that will make all Steam games past, present, and future runnable without the services? Seriously? No way I believe that they would have a single point of failure in their scheme that was so easily circumvented.

      I guess they don't teach critical thinking in schools any longer.

    36. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      You actually don't own the books you buy physically either.

      Are you sure about that? I can legally re-sell the books I own..

      Oh wait... I see what you did there.

      Never mind.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    37. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Vitani · · Score: 2, Informative

      With Steam you can just use Offline mode. I did this when moving house and was without an Internet connection for a few weeks and could happily play Portal, HL2, etc. without any issues. (Not sure about other games which use non-Steam DRM though!)

      Also should you want to format, it provides a way to back-up your games to a DVD/similar so you don't have to re-download.

      I can't say anything about the other providers as I've never used them.

    38. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Valve has stated before that if they do go belly-up they would release a patch so that you could play all of your games without getting onto the steam network

      In legal circles, that's known as the "I promise not to cum" clause.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    39. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      I take it people accuse you of this a lot?
      By marketing detectors just start to go off when I see people who are completely 100% positive about something and have nothing bad to say about them.

      Perhaps it's that we're used to the grizzled and cynical attitudes here.

      I mean are you negative about anything?

    40. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Steam usually operates fine in off-line mode

      Well then, it's comforting to know that I can usually use the stuff I paid for.

      They should put that in their advertising: "Our stuff usually works".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    41. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and their popularity and success will ensure that instead of just keeling over, they'll get bought out by some corporation, which will prevent the publication of such a patch - after all, they'll be running the servers. When those eventually decide to stop the service, there will no longer be any Valve to release the patch.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    42. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 1

      When being negative about something someone always comes along and calls for "are you working for [competitor x]?", ie. I don't like Google datamining all over the internet and losing my privacy to them - I must be Microsoft shill. :)

    43. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That toaster you bought? You didn't really buy it. You rented it. When, not if, that toaster breaks, you just have a glorified paper weight.
       
      Surprise! If you buy something and it breaks, you can no longer make use it. Following your logic, pretty much EVERYTHING is rented.

    44. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      No. There should be an exemption in the DMCA for Fair Use/Dealing, but there is not.

      Your rights over the protected content are irrelevant; bypassing the protection mechanism is a crime of and by itself. This is just one of the many enduring horrors hidden in the pulsing pustule of pure poison that is the DMCA.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    45. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Price gouging? If you'd bothered to find out, you'd know that the game distributor is responsible for the pricing of the games, not Steam."

      Well, that's not entirely true. It was Valve's decision to make Steam multi-currency leading to increase prices in the process. It's also very possibly Valve's decision to block and create the various problems that have arisen for people importing hard copies etc. I also doubt that Valve has no say in pricing, particularly when it has to compete with classic retail which certainly does have a say in pricing, hence why prices on Amazon are sometimes as much as 50% of those on Steam.

      "Randomly downloads updates? Again, if you'd bothered to find out, you'd know that you can turn off automatic updating of games."

      I don't want to prat around turning it on and off, I want to schedule it. Example: I go to bed at 10pm on a work day as I have to be up at 6am to set off to work at 7am, but my peak time restrictions and bandwidth cap lasts until midnight and starts again at 8am. I can't stay up just to re-enable updating and can't turn up an hour late to work to disable it again, but I don't want to leave it on and have it chew up my bandwidth cap. I just want to be able to set it to download from midnight to 8am.

      I'm amazed after all this time Valve hasn't implemented a scheduler when it's fairly trivial and when many people in many countries face this problem nowadays as the promise of unlimited broadband drifts further and further away.

    46. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      nah, people complain all the time and there's generally lots of competitors to choose from.

    47. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Why would they need money to release something that's already been made?

    48. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Well my EULA - which the company agrees to when the software installs itself on my computer - says that the game's EULA isn't valid.

    49. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      I take it you've never used a cracked steam client before? Works very well.

    50. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Chi-RAV · · Score: 1

      Enter Disney Keychest
      http://topnews.net.nz/content/2686-disney-project-aims-play-film-any-device
      http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/22/disney-keychest-to-make-buy-once-view-anywhere-movies-a-reality/

      Maybe not applicable to games/mp3/etc. just yet. But consider this:
      A vendor-neutral system to manage bought and paid for digital licenses. It doesn't matter if iTunes goes belly up, because your license lives on in the keychest.
      I know, I know. It's disney and all. Evil corporations shouldn't mess with this. BUT! It is a good idea, and a step in the right direction. Now if only we could get Keychest out of the hands of captain jack sparrow, erhm, I mean Disney, it would be perfect.

    51. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      That is funny on more than one level. Awesome.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    52. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially BEER!! Don't break the seal or your rental period is over.

    53. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      Good thing the crackers have already made no-steam patches for just about everything then...

      The only real negative for me with steam (I think there is some facility to back up your games) is that you have to tie them all together. I could sell my steam account, but I can't sell only the weird little rally car game I bought and never play. I also cant (AFAIK) play TF2 while my friend borrows my copy of L4D.

      --
      Bottles.
    54. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by tepples · · Score: 1

      Writing the patch costs money and it will never make any. Just sayin'...

      As I understand it, they already wrote and advertised the existence of the patch, and they already made the money from the increased sales due to knowledge of the existence of the patch.

    55. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by tepples · · Score: 1

      Valve has stated before that if they do go belly-up they would release a patch

      In legal circles, that's known as the "I promise not to cum" clause.

      Let's take your sex analogy further: Would putting a patch in escrow be like putting on a condom?

    56. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      Besides, why would the companies want to give you a Fair Use right? Half of the point (if not the whole point) of DRM is to ensure that they get as much money as possible from those willing to pay. If that involves making laws that prohibit breaking DRM for personal use then so be it. If that also involves people having to buy in multiple formats for multiple players then not only "so be it", but you can bet they're rubbing their hands in glee in a method not suitable for children to see.

      All sensible law should allow you to buy and own a copy that you can do what you want with, but companies push for law with more power than people and so the law isn't sensible.

    57. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      IIRC the procedure to make sure games are always available for offline is to launch and then quit every game, tell steam to go to offline mode, then your suppose to make a backup of a file (you'll have to google it, but I think its Clientregistry.blob). Then go back online, if you ever find yourself w/o internet and a game is giving you lip about launching you use that backed-up file.

    58. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Stregano · · Score: 1

      Do not think that just physical copies will be good either. Many games, like Spore for example, require a connection to the EA server in order to play the game.

      There is no way that the Spore server will be up in 20 years. EA has already gotten rid of the Maxis team even if EA continues with development for Spore if that is any indication of what will happen.

      Now, Call me crazy, but to avoid this, the digital distribution people should really instead allow for that copy on your hard drive to be on there, and it would be the same as if you bought the game and patched it with a no-cd crack. Doing it that way would ensure that even if anything happened to the company, the end user could still enjoy what they paid for.

      With digital distribution, from what I have seen, that is the biggest fear for most people, is when the company goes out of business.

      Now some of the bigger companies will, hopefully, keep the servers up longer, but as we found out with EA, even popular games like Madden 09 get the axe on the server.

      Like I mentioned before, if there was a way to get/play the game even when the company (or team behind the game) is no longer in business, I personally feel that digital distribution will have a much better chance. Until we have a guarentee, then it is us taking the chance, and some of us are not willing to take that chance.

      --
      The world is how you make it
    59. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use/make a crack or only buy from companies/developers who don't require a tether. I hate Steam also, which is one reason I avoid anything produced by Valve (on top of that fact that they've haven't made a single game I would actually want to buy).

    60. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly certain that's always been the case even when you have the physical media.
       
      My personal opinion is I bought it, if you try to take it away I'll have no moral qualms about pirating it.

    61. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 1

      "Price gouging? If you'd bothered to find out, you'd know that the game distributor is responsible for the pricing of the games, not Steam."

      Well, that's not entirely true. It was Valve's decision to make Steam multi-currency leading to increase prices in the process.

      It was the publishers that wanted the option, and the retail importers in different countries wanted to get their copies at same price as when buying online. Then theres the various tax differences in different countries.

      It wasn't just Valve dicking around and thinking "You know what would be fun? Lets introduce different prices in different countries for the lulz!"

    62. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by GigG · · Score: 1

      No. Think sperm bank. You don't really know what you are getting and there is a real good chance it won't have the desired outcome.

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    63. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You CAN'T compare immaterial and material purchases directly, but that's not a problem here because if you're a copyright fanboy then both of these scenarios are immaterial.

      You see, when you buy a book if you're a copyrights fan then you're really paying for the license to read the copyrighted text. The paper it comes on is just a delivery mechanism.

      The same applies to a software CD. The CD itself is a delivery mechanism only.

      It is literally the EXACT same scenario. If you can own a book, then you can own a copy of software. If however the software is merely licensed, then so too is the book. They are the same type of critter and the way you want to interpret ownership (or lack thereof) of one will have to legally extend to the other.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    64. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by wwfarch · · Score: 1

      This is the specific reason that I prefer Stardock's impulse over Steam. If the two are the same price (or reasonably close) then I will go with Impulse every time. Steam does have some amazing deals that can't be beat though so I do end up getting games through Steam a lot as well.

    65. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I said the same thing when I bought my 2008 Pontiac Solstice.

      Well, with an engine that weak, it might as well be steam-powered. A bit like the Cugnot carriage.

    66. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      You sure aren't renting.

      Everything can be started in offline mode. Then once in the game in offline mode you can flick your internet back on and play online if you want.

      There are a handful of ways to get around Steam - one of them being just what I described. The reason it will always try and launch steam when you try to launch a game is not just for authentication reasons, but you are paying for the ability to use the Steam Overlay in the game of your choice.

      If you think you've outwitted their grandmaster scheme, pulled the hood away from your eyes, you were wrong to begin with.

    67. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but unless someone other than a Valve employee has actually seen this "magic key" I smell BS. I mean, think about it. You have many cracker groups out there, all of them cracking games belonging to Valve or downloaded from steam. If there really was a "magic key" that would unlock every single game on Steam that would be a pretty damned big incentive for a cracker group to go after that key, not to mention the street cred if they pull it off.

      So unless there has been a third party that said "yeah I saw the magic key and it really works" I smell fish, because every cracker group on the planet would love to get a hold of such a key, and as we have seen they are some really clever little buggers when it comes to cracking games. If there was a magic key I would expect one of the cracker groups to find it and release it to the world, and since there has been nary a hint of it, I would want more than "we got a magic key" before giving over my cash.

      At least with every retail game I have I automatically download all the patches along with a No-DVD so no matter what happens to the company I can play my game at anytime. With Steam I simply wouldn't have that luxury.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    68. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Cornflake917 · · Score: 1

      The bits wouldn't be random. They would be encrypted, but not random.

      In other words, someone (probably Valve before they sell Steam to another company) will create a patch that will allow you to play the games.

    69. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Funny

      So now I work for Microsoft, Opera Software, Steam, Google, Infinity Ward, Logitech and (interestingly) Red Hat. That makes my work days 56 hours long, which leaves me -32 hours per day to dick around.

      Ah, so you're an H1-B!

    70. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by undercanopy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's exactly the same in theory and legal terms, sure, but in physical terms, that the book doesn't phone home to ask for permission every time you try to read it. I think that was the point -- whether or not you legally own 'rights' to the content, they'll have a much tougher time trying to stop you reading it, regardless of the changing whims/stability of the publisher. Or: I don't have to go find a cracked version of the book in order to keep reading it after the publisher goes tits-up.

      --
      -- D-23994, Muff#2613
    71. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Spatial · · Score: 1

      I doubt it. In such a situation they might not even have the legal right to do that. Their servers cost money to run, serving millions of people each day. I can't see it being in their publisher agreements either.

      Fortunately there are already such patches in the form of cracks. They work on Steam games just as well as retail ones. Thanks to them I don't need Valve's mercy to have absolute control over my games.

    72. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by ParanoiaBOTS · · Score: 1

      Just so we're clear: you're renting the ability to play. When, not if, they go belly up, you've just got a hard drive full of random bits.

      Don't get me wrong, I use and love Steam (it even works well through Wine on Ubuntu) but I'm under no illusions about ownership.

      Let's just say that steam did go belly up tomorrow, and they didn't have the time/money/resources to release a patch to allow you to play your games without their servers. What would we do?

      Answer: Pirate the games, just like I used to do. If the RIAA comes knocking at my door, I still have my digital receipts proving I *did* in fact pay for the right to play the game.

    73. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by ZombieWomble · · Score: 1
      The reason nobody cares about the particular unlock method Valve may plan to use when they go belly up is that Steam is already conclusively broken. Typing "Steam" and "Crack" into Google yields roughly 4 million hits, for a wide variety of games, right up to brand new titles. Most of the online authentication tricks they use are no more complex to remove than the DVD checks in physical media, and so unsurprisingly the same types of cracks exist.

      If that's your only reason for not using steam, do a bit of googling and enjoy the wonders of digital distribution.

    74. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Gabe did not say that. There is no universal decryption key for the system they use. He said he expects he would make available a method to enable the games if the masters went offline. His wording was careful to avoid a legally binding statement. The reality is that it would not be in his control if they went belly up, as it would be a trustee's call with the creditors as the IP would be under their control. Something short of chapter 11 and it would be factors such as goodwill upon deciding there is no reason to continue the system for a given product. In other words there is no IP left that is profitable and as a gesture of goodwill and if within his control, it would likely happen. End of story.

    75. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by satoshi1 · · Score: 1

      Valve has stated that should Steam cease to be a distribution platform and go under, they will release a patch to unlock all of the games you have bought and allow you to play them without logging into the dead steam servers. Problem Solved.

    76. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      There should be an exemption in the DMCA for Fair Use/Dealing, but there is not.

      So, you believe the MPAA when it says "no fair use". Really? Would you like to buy some swampland^Wlakefront real estate?

      In 17 USC 1201 (what is commonly called the DMCA), there is the following text:

      Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected.-(1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.

      What this means is that no text in section 1201 removes "fair use" as a defense. What this really means is that as long as you are not doing any copy-protection breaking for other people (e.g., writing and distributing DeCSS) and are not distributing copies yourself, "fair use" is a perfectly reasonable defense to breaking copy protection.

    77. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Now I know most discs have about a natural 7-14 year lifespan unless we're talking special storage.

      If by "special" you mean "keeping the disc in the case when not in use", then I'd agree with you. I don't do anything more than that and my music CDs (90% of which are older than 15 years) all work fine.

      For non-pressed media, though, there is a definite limit to the lifespan that people have probably already hit a lot.

    78. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Offline mode "times out" after a while - you'll get an error message that's basically telling you that you have to go online, and games just won't run. There are some hacks to get around it (simply put, you need to preserve the relevant state of the system at the point where it's still "offline-valid"), but it's still annoying.

    79. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      So now I work for Microsoft, Opera Software, Steam, Google, Infinity Ward, Logitech and (interestingly) Red Hat. That makes my work days 56 hours long, which leaves me -32 hours per day to dick around.

      Ah, so you're an H1-B!

      Not me, I got vaccinated.

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
    80. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Hellpop · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I get that sort of thing a lot too. Drives me nuts. Lemmings believe you must be a lemming too. It's what lemmings do.

      People have this need to pigeon-hole everything. Whatever happened to individuals? Why does everyone try to group us?

      We can agree and disagree with different ideas without actually subscribing to any group. Try it sometime, you little drones!

      --
      "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."
    81. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Vitani · · Score: 1

      I didn't know that (evidently I wasn't off-line long enough to experience this), thanks for the info!

    82. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by westlake · · Score: 1
      Many of the games I bough in 90's are too scratched, lost somewhere along the years or do not work with current operating systems and are unplayable now. Doesn't bother me too much, theres great new games now.

      There are also distributors like Gog.com which repackage old games for your new operating system.

      You might find a solution on your own - but for $5 -$15 its scarcely worth the trouble.

    83. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sexconker · · Score: 1

      You actually don't own the games you buy physically either. You're getting a license to use them, like with any other software.

      Until it's put up front on the outside of the box, an EULA is not a legally-binding contract.

      Until stores accept returns for opened software, an EULA is not a legally-binding contract.

      Until minors can enter into a contract, an EULA is not a legally-binding contract.

      Until all users of a product can be proven to have read and understood it, an EULA is not a legally-binding contract.

    84. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by david_thornley · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except that I'm not normally paying for a license to read the copyrighted text. I'm paying for a copy. If I were paying for a license, I would have the right to read the text even if my purchased copy were destroyed, and I don't. Moreover, if I were to find a book that somebody abandoned, I wouldn't have the right to read it, not having acquired a license. In fact, I can own a book, but there are limitations on what I can do with it. There's some limitations on what I can do with a lot of my property, so this is nothing unusual.

      Now, some software is sold with a EULA, and the legal system has not completely rejected that idea as it should have, so in many cases when you use software you've agreed that you don't own it, only license it. That does not in general happen with books, which are sold outright, and come with no restrictions other than copyright.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    85. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 1

      Valve has stated that should Steam cease to be a distribution platform and go under, they will release a patch to unlock all of the games you have bought and allow you to play them without logging into the dead steam servers. Problem Solved.

      I've seen this quoted over and over again. Does anyone have a citation for this claim? Have they made it in any legally binding way or is it just some random employee of Valve spouting off in some web-forum making claims he may not be in any position to make.

      After all, I have to wonder if they even are legally allowed to do this. I guess they could in the case of their own games (Half Life, Left4Dead), but would they be allowed to strip the DRM from titles they did not develop but only distributed? I guess that might be in a contract between publisher and distributor, but I can't imagine a big company like EA allowing that. Not to mention that, assuming Valve does go out of business, where are they going to get the money to develop these promised patches? Are we supposed to believe that they already have been written and are just sitting on a hard-drive somewhere?

      It just sounds like a flight of fancy that people who have bought into Steam use to reassure themselves that they aren't going to get screwed out of their purchases in a few years. I'd like to see some proof to which Valve can be held accountable.

    86. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      People say things all the time.

    87. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by amliebsch · · Score: 1

      In this case, since the games are encrypted, it's probably just one half of a public/private key pair. I'm just speculating, but suppose that the authorization consists of requesting a token from the Steam auth servers, a token that is encrypted with Valve's private key. That token, then, can be decrypted with Valve's public key, and the Steam client knows therefore that the token is valid. So in the case that Valve goes TU, they could simply release their private key and clients could generate their own tokens. However, this would be fiendishly difficult to crack, because you'd essentially have to crack the encryption sceheme, which is the realm of super-mathematicians and NSA geniuses, who probably have better things to do than play video games.

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    88. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by wjousts · · Score: 3, Interesting

      but I recall clearly that Gabe Newell stated...

      Not in the Steam TOS he didn't. Nor anywhere else where it would be legally binding. But it's okay, Valve are the good guys, right?

    89. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm kind of glad I purchase my games from Direct2Drive instead of Steam.
      Sure, their website isn't as fancy as Steam, and I have to manually download the latest patches... but at least I don't have to log on to a site just to play a simple game.

    90. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by wjousts · · Score: 1

      I've always thought that the game industry as a whole could buy itself a huge chunk of good will and tolerance or various online DRM / activation schemes if they would create an independent organization that would be a third party and hold unlock patches for all the various activation schemes to be released in the event that the publisher goes bust or else decides to turn off their servers.

    91. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

      > You actually don't own the games you buy physically either. You're getting a license to use them, like with any other software.

      This fails the duck test.

      Despite having "License" information inside the package, you have already purchased the software (media and materials) before being presented with a license. Further, the company has no expectation of reclaiming the software.

      There have been a few indirect challenges to "software licensing", "shrinkwrap licensing", and EULAs; not all in favor of the customer, not all in favor of the "licensor". Some have even been covered here on Slashdot.

    92. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by wjousts · · Score: 1

      Right, 'cos servers run on magic fairy dust.

    93. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly certain that's always been the case even when you have the physical media.

      If the games don't "phone home", they can't control them in any way. In singleplayer games that's still common.

    94. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by icebraining · · Score: 1

      If we had the right to make personal backups like we should, that wouldn't happen.

    95. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Great. Yet they still hold all your games hostage if you're having payment issues (and potentially do anything they don't like.) Also their regular updates can break steam for you.

    96. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      *Splutter*gasp*deep breaths*

      You. DO. Own. Your. Physical. Books.

      Ownership is not the same as copyright. Copyright is not the same as license. Please get your terms straight.

    97. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      I have yet to see a reliable link to text of this assertion. Please provide.

      Otherwise, stop spreading rumour-bait.

    98. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your sarcasm detector is so broken...

    99. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by harl · · Score: 1

      Impulse does not work that way.

      You can download an archive of your game that can be installed offline.

      No phoning home asking permission to play like Steam.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    100. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

      I had the same question. IIRC, someone did provide a source where Gabe had posted on a forum. However, what soothed MY worries was that they actually had the right attitude about giving the customers value (friends, redownloadable titles, etc) for the tradeoff of having to log in. If they go under, I won't feel at all bad about finding a torrent since I bought the game. Meanwhile, I'll support them since they seem to actually value their customers.

    101. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by harl · · Score: 1

      Urban legend.

      I've seen this myth many many many times. No one has ever been able to cite a source.

      Please provide citation.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    102. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by harl · · Score: 1

      Urban legend.

      I've seen this myth many many times. No one has ever been able to cite a source.

      Please provide citation.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    103. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by harl · · Score: 1

      Urban legend.

      I've seen this myth many many many times. No one has ever been able to cite a source.

      Please provide a source.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    104. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by AlleyCatEh · · Score: 1

      I like Steam, clean interface, loads fast. However I only have 2 GB of RAM, atleast 500 MB of it of course Windows allocates to itself, there is a limit of how much I can run. Also, I like to run a clean system, fast and responsive. Even once I upgrade with a better system, I do not want programs from Stardock, Activision, 2k Games, Take-Two, Codemasters, Microsoft, Eidos, and Ubisoft running in the background, just so I can play games. An environment like that will encourage hacked games, something similiar to NO CD patches. Steam is good, but I dont want 2 or more programs like Steam, DONT NEED IT, do not want it.

    105. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by harl · · Score: 1

      Lot's of people claim the existence of this mythical patch.

      Every time I see a claim I call them on it.

      No one has yet to cite a source.

      Please provide some evidence of this patch.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    106. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by CaseM · · Score: 1

      This is complete bullshit. Not the least reason being that the content isn't owned by Valve and they would have to have permission from every 3rd party publisher to allow the games to be decrypted, which I guarantee you they do not.

    107. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by CaseM · · Score: 1

      Might want to use spell check next time. And why would promising not to go anywhere have anything to do with Valve decrypting its games?

    108. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by harl · · Score: 1

      That's completely untrue.

      At no point do I agree that EA can revoke their license. There is no law that says they can come into my house and take the disc back.

      With Steam you explicitly give them permission to revoke your access as they see fit. For any or no reason. You explicitly say you want no compensation if they do this. Read the EULA.

      The EULA is a legally binding contract. That's not my opinion. That's the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals' opinion. The case is ProCD v Zeidenberg.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    109. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by harl · · Score: 1

      So when you get a new computer how does offline mode move the games to your new computer?

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    110. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Pofy · · Score: 1

      >Until it's put up front on the outside of the box,
      >an EULA is not a legally-binding contract.

      Are you suggesting that anything printed on the outside of something you buy forms a contract with the buyer?

    111. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      From the Wikipedia entry on Steam:

      According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, Steam's availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable.

      Despite this, Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve, said in a post on the Steam User Forums that "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available." He added, "We've tested disabling authentication and it works.

    112. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Not mentioning downsides to Steam is not the same as insisting it's 100% perfect.

      Personally, I would rather buy games through Steam than any other distribution method, if the choice is available to me. I enjoy the ability to just download whichever game I want to play without having to dig out a CD or track down where I stashed the CD key. I enjoy the community aspects that help me keep track of my friends and join them when they're playing something. If you were to approach me on the street and give me thirty seconds to describe what I think about Steam, I'd repeat what I just said.

      This does not mean I see no problems with Steam. Indeed my biggest complaint about Steam is that they provide no method for transferring game licenses to other users. However, I so rarely sell or even lend games that such an ability ranks very low on my priority list.

      Other problems stem from Steam's lack of QA on third-party games sold through Steam. For example, Eidos used to sell the original Commandos through Steam (before Good Old Games) - neither company would support it. Eidos refused because Commandos was Win9x-only; Valve refused because Steam was WinXP (or newer) only. And running it as-is, downloaded from Steam, simply didn't work at all. (I managed to get Valve to refund my purchase, when it became clear that Eidos was not interested in supporting the game.) I am now somewhat reluctant to purchase older titles on Steam.

      My point is, I rarely talk about these problems with Steam, because they have little to no effect on my daily use of Steam. But that usual silence does not mean I don't think Steam has room to improve. Similarly, you should not assume "sopssa didn't mention problems in this one post" is equivalent to "sopssa must think Steam is completely perfect".

    113. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Actually I don't use Steam because they burnt me for $50, and I tend to not support companies that bend me over. You see young one, once upon a time there was this game called Half Life, and it was good. It was so good in fact that when they released the "Game of The Year" or GOTY edition many of us snapped it right up. IIRC it had Blue Shift and the other Military mod I didn't care for, and more importantly to me it had all the patches as I was on dialup at the time and downloading patches took forever. It was truly fun!

      But then along comes Steam. Valve tells us beforehand not to worry, we can just use our retail keys and all is good, but it wasn't. It turned out Valve used a really shitty key for the GOTY edition, one that was easily cracked. So when many of us that had GOTY edition tried to put in our keys we were told to go DIAF basically. I spent hours on the phone, even offered to take a picture of myself with the day's paper and the pretty retail box and discs so they could see I had purchased it. No matter what I was told to go DIAF and shell out ANOTHER $50 if I actually wanted to play what I purchased.

      So personally Valve can eat shit and die for all I care. I will continue to buy my games at retail, and will make sure I have No-DVD keys at the ready. And yes I know about Steam cracks, as when Gamestop was selling HL2 for $10 to make way for the orange box I picked it up and cracked Steam just so I would have to deal with Valve and their horseshit. If your game depends on Steam it is a rental, nothing more. Valve can take away any and all of your rights at the push of a button, and if you try to deal with their "support" you will basically be told to fuck off and buy another copy. So fuck you Valve and the horse you rode in on.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    114. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      wooosh!

    115. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      I considered all of these factors when I started purchasing games on Steam. You know what I realized?

      I damn near never replay old games. When I do, I realize that they suck compared to new games. So basically, this "problem" doesn't mean anything to a lot of people out there, most likely. If it does mean something to you, don't use Steam. Problem solved.

    116. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Most games I play have a perpetual license to play them forever, as long as I can get a computer and OS that runs them. Only online games and DRM games are the exception. I don't recall seeing licenses on these games that give a certain date when I must stop playing, or that the publisher reserves the right to one day void the game.

      I think Steam is great for a certain category of players - those who want new games all the time and who don't like to play older ones.

      The games I have from the 90s are still good. I even have floppies from 80s that I suspect will still work (though I have CD replacements for most of them). Most of those companies from the 80/90s are dead now, though sometime they may live on in name only. Companies that survive have no intention of supporting older games anyway. Is Valve going to be around and supporting these games in 20 years? I really don't think so.

      The other snag of Steam is that it mandates that you patch your game if you're online before playing. If that messes up, you're screwed. You can't go back to a prior version since it no longer exists, you can't just re-install since that will insist on repatching as well. So you've got a single player game with the disadvantages of an online game...

    117. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      No, you OWN the books you buy! You need no license at all to read them. You are allowed to lend them to friends. You are allowed to read them upside down, or with a magnifying glass, or burn them, or use the pages in the outhouse. You do need permission to copy them though.

      I think the RIAA and MPAA have been making progress with their propaganda...

    118. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Many of those advantages you list we had before Steam. You got patches online, though you had to manually get them (a good idea because often the patches had problems, so if it ain't broke don't patch it). You could install and uninstall at will, a zillion times if you wanted to.

      Downloading games at low cost is so-so. First off, they're not that low-cost. It took years for Half-Life 2 to drop to a reasonable bargain basement rate, much longer than it takes the typical retail store to drop the price. Online publishers seriously overvalue their products and and don't feel the need to push product to get back shelf space, so online prices drop more slowly. The prices are far too high for me for something that I won't even own. Second, you need some major bandwidth to download a lot of these games. Maybe some people have this, but most do not and it may hours or days to download a large game (not to mention long times to patch).

      Transferring somewhere else without media seems an extremely tiny advantage. I've done it once and it was highly inconvenient. I had to wait hours for a download when I could have been done in minutes if I had media.

      So advantages for people with huge bandwidth and a "must have cool game now" attitude to impulse buying.

    119. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      Steam is great!

      Most games have had their Securom DRM stripped out and replaced with whatever Steam uses. No more annoying DVDs! There's constant sales with great prices - right now Psychonauts is on sale for $2. (A ridiculously fun game, btw)

      When a friend bought Left4Dead, I was able to copy my L4D folder to his computer, and he was able to avoid downloading it.

      Really convenient - the only area they need improvement is refunds on games that just don't work! (there are a few - ex: Universe at War wants Games for Windows Live running, and for whatever reason it won't start on my PC)

    120. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Getting patches online was often _painful_ before Steam. Try finding the patches for Knights of the Old Republic, for example, or for Half-Life itself. Installing and uninstalling at will, especially migrating to other systems, could often be amazingly painful. And that "if you had media" is, in fact, as problem. Digging into my pile of old games to find my old flippies for X-Com: UFO Defense is unreasonably difficult, but now I can get it on Steam for $5, and it's mine as long as Steam lasts (which seems to be a reasonable bet), and I can play it on platforms the original would never have supported (such as 64-bit Vista). And the complete X-Com pack is $15, for all the X-Com games. That's pretty reasonable.

      Half-Life 2, on the other hand, is a very expensive, powerful game that takes a large amount of bandwidth and is likely to take a lot of server bandwidth going forward with the various mods in play. And it's $20, which is at least a match with current gamestore prices, and it's always available for download. That's also pretty reasonable.

    121. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've recently run into that problem from completely the opposite direction. Sure you may worry what happens when they go belly up. But here is something else to consider, what happens when YOU go belly up?

      My youngest brother recently died, what happens to his Steam account and the games on them, can they be transferred to another account? Do they simply stay in his account and if they are passed to someone else, the account in its entirety must be passed along also?

      I've asked them this question, but not had an answer yet (only been a few business days at this point though).

      For reference, I asked iTunes a similar question, the result is pretty much that you change the details of the account and use it, you cannot transfer the purchases or credits remaining in the account.

    122. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      He spelled it perfectly fine. Might want to crawl out from under the rock. Then again, sex analogies are probably way out of place on Slashdot.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    123. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by R4nneko · · Score: 1

      Gah, that was me by the way. I don't know why it posted AC when I logged in.

    124. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone will crack it if it becomes necessary

    125. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Similar thing happened to me.
      I bought a game a few years ago, downloaded the software, saved the license key. Recently I set up my notebook again and so I reinstalled that game. Fine, but I can't play it any more because for verifying the license key it needs to connect to some server, but this server does not exist any more; same as this company. When I bought this game, I did not even know about that. Otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.

      What if they change the ip-address of this server due to some changes in policy?
      Or they decide they have made enough money so far and go out of business and move to a nice island?
      Or they want people to re-buy their games and get another website/company/server?

      I think it is illegal to force people who have paid for an unlimited lifetime license to prove that over and over again. The proper process would be to rent games then - every time I want to play, I have to pay like say 90 ct.

      Anyway, I can assure you that it is very unlikely that a company DOES care for its customers and if they can still use their software after those customers have paid.

    126. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      games that you have a disc can never be taken away though, ensuring that if you ever emulate the old system on newer hardware, all you end up needing is a crack to bypass the cd checking and bam - you can still play the game you actually own from who knows how many years ago. Think I'd love to play my old games on my new pc with the bigger screen, etc? I think we all know the answer to that. Meanwhile, it's sad that to ensure a backup will work after the cd/dvd auth service is taken offline for the disc, that you have to get a cd check bypassing .exe, that's pretty sad. Like you, I understand that they are deliberately renting the games to people, but we don't have a lot of other choices with most games right now. Blame every major games publishier (blizzard/activision, ea) for ensuring that such a situation even came around in the first place.

    127. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

      If I were paying for a license, I would have the right to read the text even if my purchased copy were destroyed here here, I always bring this up and people write it off like I am talking crazy but if you are just purchasing a license then there should be a policy in place to replace it if loss stolen or damaged, if you are purchasing the physical media then you should be able to do what you please with it- you can't have it both ways

    128. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sexconker · · Score: 1

      No. It being available up front before the transfer on moneys is one of many requirements.

      Perhaps if you would have read my post you would have understood that.

    129. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Where have you seen that? I've seen an excerpt from Steam's FAQ that says they MIGHT give you an offline version / patch, but no promises. Then of course they also included the typical "we can change these terms to renege on our promises at any time and you can't do jack shit about it" clause.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    130. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Again....wooosh

    131. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      Books are specifically protected in copyright law. You do own the book, and you can sell it (unlike your digital licenses), although you can't copy it.

    132. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by mweather · · Score: 1

      If I were paying for a license, I would have the right to read the text even if my purchased copy were destroyed,

      Then you're definitely not paying for a license when you buy software.

    133. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by sopssa · · Score: 1

      Unless they're mute.

    134. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by brkello · · Score: 1

      This argument always seems so stupid to me. I scratch or lose my disc and then that game is gone. With Steam, I just redownload it if I am on a new computer or at a friend's house.

      But really, they have already said they would unlock all the games if they went belly up. But let us take worst case scenario. They go belly up and are damned evil liars and do nothing. What are we going to do? Oh, just wait for someone in the community to write a patch for it and then it will be fine. So what is the problem exactly?

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    135. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Just read the article in my archived emails, so sorry about the late reply)

      I picked up Xcom over the weekend in the Steam sale, and it came pre-wrapped in dosbox. Worked perfectly on a x64 Win7 box. I never played Commandos, so I don't know how that one works, but all the recent purchases I've made of older 16-bit games come wrapped in Dosbox. Doom, Commander Keen, Xcom. I haven't tried any Win95 era games, but I'd imagine they are similar. Give it a try, it's probably improved since your last experience.

    136. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      There's no emulation layer for Win9x games. The only way to run them *almost* properly, without fixing the code, is to run the game in Win9x compatibility mode - something that Steam explicitly prevents you from doing. (Go ahead, try it with any game - Steam will stop the game from running.)

      Yes, DOS-era games work properly when bundled with Dosbox. Unfortunately there's not a similar solution for Win9x games.

      The solution? Buy from gog.com. Good Old Games actually fixes the code to let the game run properly, and they're cheap.

    137. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh, I didn't know that. The downside to gog is the lack of streamlined install/update as compared to Steam. I might give it a try though for some of those late 90s games.

    138. Re:Steam and Electronic Arts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't spout so many lies thanks. You're not renting anything. You are buying a license, just like for every other piece of software on the planet. Steam going out of business is about as likely as Microsoft or Apple going out of business and remote disabling every Windows/Snow Leopard installation on the planet. Would you never play any MMO because of the same reason? What about never playing XBox games because of the multiplayer functionality on XBox LIVE which would be useless given the same happened? Honestly, you're being a retard.

  2. 5, 10, 20 years down the road by suso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another thing to worry about is that in 10+ years we will have a whole generation of games (not just MMOs) that will no longer be able to be played on emulators, etc. because the networks they connect with will be gone.

    I think people will get fed up with it and the game publishers will have to change eventually, but not before a lot of damage will be done.

    1. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by sopssa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think so. 20 years is lot of years. Even the TV I bough 10 years ago doesn't work anymore (not showing tv channels at least), because digital TV got instructed. Did it really bother me that much? Not really. I just bough a new one with lots of new fancy features and HD picture.

      Not everything in life last forever. The pizza I ate yesterday is gone. It was still good and I enjoyed the experience. So is my ex but I enjoyed that experience too and now its time to move into new things.

      And theres always private servers, if the player base actually is large enough.

    2. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Amarantine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But i can still pay the games i bought for a NES or Mega Drive. I think the PS2 is the last console before the new generation where patches, firmware upgrades and whatnot became the norm.

      I have no problem with not being able to play the games i bought now in 10 years or so, but perhaps they shouldn't be priced as such then. Games now cost the same as 20 years ago, yet they don't have the same lifespan.

    3. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by sopssa · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But they have a lot larger costs to make than 20 years ago. And to be honest, in terms of dollars spend per hour games as an entertainment are really cheap. Two hour movie ticket with popcorn and cola costs at least $10 per person (and then possible a dinner in restaurant $40). One night out in a bar can easily cost $100.

      With a good game you can top hundreds of hours of gameplay, which makes the per hour price come down to like $0.10-$0.20. Not much, if you ask me.

    4. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by IsisTheDamned · · Score: 2, Funny

      you don't have to wait that long - hellgate london achieved this in less than five years...

    5. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      "Another thing to worry about is that in 10+ years we will have a whole generation of games (not just MMOs) that will no longer be able to be played on emulators, etc. because the networks they connect with will be gone."

      There is an easy fix for this situation.

      Don't buy a game unless there is a crack for it somewhere. Most cracked games get around the "phone-home" syndrome. TPB is a good place to start.

      I've got two games that I haven't even taken out of the box as I prefer to use the non-DRM versions available as a torrent.

      The developers have a work-around for this though. It is called the "MMO".

    6. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by vlm · · Score: 1

      Another thing to worry about is that in 10+ years we will have a whole generation of games (not just MMOs) that will no longer be able to be played on emulators, etc. because the networks they connect with will be gone.

      So, today the warez versions that don't connect to the network are merely better than the official versions, but in 10+ years, they'll not only be better, but be the only way to play? No problemo.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you'd be ok with that book not being readable in 10 years? (Self-destructing a la Mission Impossible)

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    8. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by GF678 · · Score: 1

      Another thing to worry about is that in 10+ years we will have a whole generation of games (not just MMOs) that will no longer be able to be played on emulators, etc. because the networks they connect with will be gone.

      Your concern is something that a lot of gamers have yet to appreciate the ramifications of. Sure, the logic of not being able to play games in the future due to the activation server being down is sound, but damnit, it's Bioshock 2! BIOSHOCK 2!!! I simply cannot pass up playing ! Or put another way, logic is defeated when emotion gets in the way.

      Having said that, this is where cracks will prove very useful. They'll be our savor for when the authentication servers are finally disconnected, and you can always rely on cracks being available due to the desire for breaking the uncrackable.

    9. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by sopssa · · Score: 1

      Not self-destructing, that would be just silly. But if there are valid reasons like MMO player base dying, DVD's getting scratched, or new technology making old devices obsolete, I'll live on and do something else.

    10. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by delinear · · Score: 1

      Yeah I can't say I really see the issue - well maybe on consoles, but for the PC we already have the situation where online gaming has been around for almost two decades, and sure it's not so easy to find players for the really old games, but there are fan groups out there you can hook up with and play, it's not impossible. Okay you weren't locked down to a particular network back then, but as OP indicates, that's easily patched, especially once the game drops off the radar enough that nobody really cares (and if they do care enough, i.e. they think there's still money to be made, then it won't be an issue because they'll still be supporting their network or releasing their own patch to allow users to play on their own servers, etc).

    11. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by suso · · Score: 1

      I don't think so. 20 years is lot of years. Even the TV I bough 10 years ago doesn't work anymore (not showing tv channels at least), because digital TV got instructed.

      Yeah, but you bought it right before a big shift in technology, the biggest in the history of TV. And besides, that old TV still works if you just get a converter. I used my standard def TV up until 2 months ago when I decided I wanted to have a nice HTPC and Blu ray player.

      Getting back to video games, I think the video game makers that only think of their games as short term profit makers would have a hard time justifying them as art. I can go into a media store and buy music and movies and books from decades past but video games only go back 5-10 years or so before they get termed "abandonware" anymore. There are a few exceptions, like Diablo 2 still being sold and rereleases of Myst. And then there is the Wii offering older games through the Wii shopping channel. But for the most part the industry have put itself into a situation where games aren't cared for after just a few years. Which is sad because a lot of classic games are still played and still entertaining. yeah, yeah, I know, there is the technology factor, but it doesn't have to be that way. If they put more care into making games that followed coding standards and didn't do stupid stuff like contact central servers in order to play, then they could end up selling for 10 years or more like Diablo has.

    12. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by sopssa · · Score: 1

      And then there is the Wii offering older games through the Wii shopping channel.

      That's an interesting point actually. Steam also offers old games made to work with current operating systems and computers. Then there's GOG, and PS3 and 360 also offer such. It might just be that the trend is continuing and we will see much more such in future. Sure in most cases you need to pay the $5-$9 again even if you own the game, but if you think the game is good its not really that much, and it comes with somewhat improved graphics and making it work in newer systems (or other platforms, like your console).

    13. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by grumbel · · Score: 1

      That doesn't really fix the underlying problems, as the problem really isn't so much a money issue, but an preservation of history one. I kind of like to be able to be able to play the games I grew up with. When you however have stuff DRM'ed and depending on servers staying online to be usable, you will quickly run into situations where history is just getting lost, as you are no longer able to play past games.

      On PS3, Xbox360 and a PC games you might still work around that issue by hacking, cracking and that kind of stuff, but that is constantly getting harder. And when it comes to things like OnLive its flat out impossible, unless you break into their servers and manage to steal the game data.

    14. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by noidentity · · Score: 1

      In other words, these are DRM schemes, with all the inherent problems. My rule is simple: if I can't download it to my own machine and be able to ensure I can still run it 10 years from now, connected only to my own local network, I'm not interested. Doesn't matter whether it's movies, music, software, or games. There's no excuse for making these things dependent on something still existing and running thousands of miles from here.

    15. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

      Not self-destructing, that would be just silly. But if there are valid reasons like MMO player base dying, DVD's getting scratched, or new technology making old devices obsolete, I'll live on and do something else.

      Player base dying is a legitimate reason (after all, the whole point of the game is that the game is there to be played with others. However, the vendor should open up the game to private servers once it takes down its own.) DVD's getting scratched and new technology making old devices obsolete are "self-destructive a la Mission Impossible"

    16. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by DiscountBorg(TM) · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think that's exactly what they want... absolute control over the distribution of their software. It sucks for those of us who are genuinely interested in the history of gaming.

      --
      "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw
    17. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but two decades ago I was still searching through instruction manuals for the third word of the second paragraph on the eighth page in order to load my games. Online gaming, even remotely related to the current forms and standards, isn't even old enough for kindergarten class yet.

    18. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      They forgot to bury it below crossroads, it's coming back again.

      Then again Hellgate at least has a singleplayer mode so it remains playable in some form.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    19. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Another thing to worry about is that in 10+ years we will have a whole generation of games (not just MMOs) that will no longer be able to be played on emulators, etc. because the networks they connect with will be gone.

      Have you gone back and tried playing a lot of your 10 year old games?

      No seriously... Everytime I install and play an old game I become sorely disappointed and scratch my head wondering what happened to this game that I had so many fond memories of.

      Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    20. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      So you'd be ok with that book not being readable in 10 years?

      I can't say I'm terribly thrilled about it... But it happens. Today. In the real world.

      Papers and inks degrade. Depending on when the book was produced, and how, it could very well be unreadable within 10 years.

      Language changes can also make a book unreadable. Try handing your average Joe Sixpack an original-text copy of The Canterbury Tales and see what they think of it.

      And then there's information that changes, making the original text basically un-usable. Compare a few textbooks released over the years and you'll see what I mean. Sure, it is technically readable... But you'd have a hard time actually teaching from the older books.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    21. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      And to be honest, in terms of dollars spend per hour games as an entertainment are really cheap.

      Son, the entertainment industry has really done a number on your head.

      You know what a good entertainment value is? A ukulele. I'm absolutely serious. You can learn to play songs on it in about a week, but there are enough subtleties in the instrument to keep you interested for a lifetime. It's a key to the entire universe of music. And you can not only endlessly entertain yourself, but your friends, too. Shit, if you get any good you can go stand at the entrance to the subway and make $200 per day (I know because back in college I did it).

      It's impossible to be in a bad mood when you play a ukulele. Seriously, no matter how shitty things get, you pick up that little bad boy and go plinka-plinka-plinka, and I guarantee you will start smiling and your heart will lighten.

      You don't need a license to play it, nor do you have to sign a EULA. You don't even need AC power. It's portable, too.

      I like to play video games, and sometimes get really into a certain game and it eats up hours and hours and hours. But eventually, it gets a little boring and I've solved all the puzzles and killed all the monsters and bosses.

      But my uke is forever.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    22. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Stregano · · Score: 1

      WTF DUDE!
      You said you would save me some pizza!!!

      --
      The world is how you make it
    23. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Private servers? You mean like for Modern Warfare 2?

    24. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of people here just use one hand to entertain themselves... Who needs an ukulele.

    25. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone seems to accept the cloud and be willing to forego the benefits of physical media ownership (even if it is just a license, it'a license which should last forever). We don't have to accept this, we can chose not to buy these things....

      a TV might need replacing every 10 years, but something like a bit stream should be timeless.

    26. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by theJML · · Score: 1

      You know, I'd have to agree with that. I was actually thinking the same thing about music the other day. Sure there's a fair number of 'good' records out lately, but none of them are iconic masterpieces that are really going to retain the same feeling over time as say a 'Dark Side of the Moon' album.

      I tend to think it's a shift in a number of directions. Games are being cranked out due to demand, expectations, and greed. Less time is spent on being awesome in a way other than 'check out these cool new graphics'. Sure there are a few, but it seems like there is a smaller percentage now compared to years past.

      On the flip side, there are low number of games that have come out recently that I would put in my 'will play for years to come' category, and some that I worry will be playable in years to come. For instance, World in Conflict. Sure it's still current now, but it depends on a central server when I want to host games. If they pull support, it now becomes local only and the majority of the time I play it is with one or two friends over the internet. So it now becomes a waste. Sure I'd have had my fun with it, but if it's truly a good game, then it shouldn't be able to be cast aside that easily. For instance, I still play Rise of Nations. It allows me to host my own games (what a concept). Other people join my IP and we're up and running quickly and I know that even if they stop patching it or even caring about it, I'll still be able to play it when I feel like being nostalgic. This seems like a simple thing to me.

      It also seems like it would make it have lower upkeep costs from the developer's point of view... Sure it doesn't work for MMO's (which I really don't like much anyway), and it probably makes the purchaser have some sort of clue how to configure their router or use UPNP, and maybe that's why they migrated away from it. Management thought it was a good idea. Well, it's not. Let me host my game locally and I'll be a happier man.

      --
      -=JML=-
    27. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by hvm2hvm · · Score: 1

      Move to a country with less bureaucracy and a less complex economy. Not somewhere where 80% of people milk each other out of money for almost no tangible work done (lawyers, clerks, consultants, advisers, economists, managers, get-rich-quick-schemers, etc. ). That's why everything is so expensive in developed countries. Here, a movie at the cinema is equivalent to 1-3$ (5$ for the 3D ones), a dinner is 10$ and 100$ would be enough to buy a night of drinking to 5-10 people at a fancy bar. That's why almost everyone pirates software, it wouldn't be feasible to buy a 40$ game when for that amount of money you could go on a camping trip for 3 days.

      --
      ics
    28. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by PincushionMan · · Score: 1

      I do. I frequently play the greats from 5, 10 and even 15 years ago. Yes, the graphics aren't always so flashy, but some games are just timeless and don't need flashy. Others get patched to be flashy. I even have a 5.25"/3.5" combo floppy in my machine. You sound like you need some titles, so here you go:

      Star Control 2 (still on the shelf, still have the Star Map - although I use the electronic copy I obtained) 4 floppies
      Dungeon Hack (yes yes, it's a Nethack clone set in the DnD world. I love the Cleric and hammer tossing/returning spell! Also on shelf) 4 floppies
      System Shock (I think there was an effort to port it to a newer engine using the same graphics) 7 floppies
      Xcom (UFO Defense for you UK folks. The 1.3 patch removes copy protection, but totally hoses the sound effects) 3 floppies
      Xcom2 (Terror from the Deep) 4 floppies (but you lose the CD movies in this version)
      Total Annihilation and Core Contingency (some features still not found in RTS games today) CDx2 and CD
      Master of Magic (although Age of Magic was a decent successor)
      Aces of the Pacific - 3 floppies
      Prince of Persia ('91) 1 720k floppy - man that game was hard
      Darklands (with 1.7 patch - yes I realize it's basically a very pretty text adventure, but the realtime combat system (and even the 'magic' system - aka virtuous priest - cleric and alchemist - magic user) was unique in it's age. Too bad it was so buggy and unstable when released) - 8 floppies
      Supaplex (computer themed Boulderdash/Rocks-n-Diamonds clone? with catchy music) 720k floppy
      Renegade Legion (hasn't been another one like it to my knowledge) 2 360k 5.25" floppies or one 720k floppy.
      Heroes of Might and Magic II (the operatic voices were cool) CD
      The Legend of Zelda (complete PC rewrite - Zelda Quest v2.1 win98/DOS only) 5MiB - freeware
      any gold box game from SSI (Curse of the Azure Bonds - 4 360k, Secret of the Silver Blades - 3 720k, Dark Queen of Krynn - 3 1.4M, Unlimited Adventures - 2 1.4M)
      Doom - 4 floppies + patch floppies (although, admittedly, I have been using ZDoomGL, DoomLegacy, Boom/PrBoom for playing.

      Sadly, most of these games look like crap on modern flat screen monitors. I haven't fooled around with DOSBOX scaling just yet, since I just recently upgraded my monitor. What bothers me is games like Neverwinter Nights 2 and similar SecuRom titles. They can be installed 2x, and then you get - "you're a bloody pirate if you install on more than two machines!" Can I help it my HD died? (why do think I kept all those floppies?) Did I buy the game or rent it? There doesn't seem to be any way to extract the files from the install-shield packages. I'm surprise no one has come up with a way to do a registry diff and file-system diff to create workaround installers for games that won't install without permission. I can always (manually) patch the game later, but not if it is not installed. I'm too old to be pirating games I've legally bought to help support the development houses I like.

      What I'm getting at is most games from 5-10 years ago are still playable. There is a range of games coming out now that won't be playable unless purchased through STEAM/Impulse/what-have-you - assuming they don't leave the SecuRom bits intact to limit activations.

    29. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Spatial · · Score: 1

      Why? They were already cracked in 0 years.

    30. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by frission · · Score: 1

      i wouldn't say that there's always private servers. at least not on consoles. for example, i've been playing a lot of SF4 on PS3 on PSN. i'm not even sure who runs those servers, sony, capcom...some combination of the two? what happens when the numbers dwindle down and they don't want to keep the matchup servers running? hopefully they would say something like, "hey, we're not supporting these servers anymore, but we'll patch the game to look for public servers, and here's the server code that you can run on your own." that would be nice, but i don't see it happening.

    31. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I don't care about cost per hour. I care about revisiting classics. A good game is not a disposable experience, it's timeless. If I love a game, I'm going to want to return to it again and again. If don't expect to love a game, I'm not going to buy it. So every game I buy, I have to have the expectation that it will be playable in the indefinite future. Long story short, I don't buy any platform or game that hasn't been well cracked.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    32. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So you'd be ok with that book not being readable in 10 years? (Self-destructing a la Mission Impossible)

      I had a CD of Fallout 2 ages ago, but it's gone. When it popped up on Steam, I've bought it.

      If Steam is gone in 10 more years, something else will take its place, and yeah, I'll buy Fallout 2 from them (for something like $5, possibly less) again.

      I guess that answers the question.

    33. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Online gaming, even remotely related to the current forms and standards, isn't even old enough for kindergarten class yet.

      That's weird, I could have sworn that Quakeworld was from 1997 or so. You expect 13 year olds in your Kindergarten classes?

      Quakeworld pioneered the client/server system most PC FPS games on the net still use to this day. There are some that skip it (MW2), or slap a front end on it (L4D), but it's still around.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    34. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Deosyne · · Score: 1

      Just played some Dungeon Keeper and Fallout 2 this weekend. Other older games like Quake/Quake 2, Unreal, and Outpost 1 and 2 regularly get loaded back up as well. The older city builders are almost always superior to their modern versions.

      The oldest game that I play through every year or two would probably be Sentinel Worlds 1: Future Magic, which came out in 1989. Played it as a kid and then found it a few years ago in the bargain bin at a K-Mart for 99 cents. Probably the only time I've entered a K-Mart in the past decade, so astounding fortune on that one. :)

      Some games just stay fun.

    35. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Language changes can also make a book unreadable. Try handing your average Joe Sixpack an original-text copy of The Canterbury Tales and see what they think of it.

      I'd be more than happy if something I bought was still usable 600+ years from now.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    36. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      I've still got my copies of games that are 20 years old. They're interesting to review every now and again.

      Good thing I kept that old Pentium around, although even it has issues with a couple of older games running too fast.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    37. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      You know what the best entertainment is? Reading Slashdot. It's really, really cheap, and there is a never ending supply of people who labor under the delusion that they're smart enough to tell everybody else in the world how they should live.

      Years of entertainment for damn near no investment at all. Can't be beat.

    38. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      And all the money you spent? To me, $50 is a lot of money (even with a respectable salary I don't like throwing it away), and I want more than a few hours worth of play for it. That means replaying it later on, next year or next decade. Similar with DVDs; I won't ever buy those unless I know I will want to watch it multiple times. If you've got 50 games in your closet, you could have $2000+ in investment there.

      But that's just me, I like to be frugal and not throw things away. Even games need recycling.

    39. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      "I don't think so. 20 years is lot of years. Even the TV I bough 10 years ago doesn't work anymore (not showing tv channels at least), because digital TV got instructed. Did it really bother me that much? Not really. I just bough a new one with lots of new fancy features and HD picture.

      Not everything in life last forever. The pizza I ate yesterday is gone. It was still good and I enjoyed the experience. So is my ex but I enjoyed that experience too and now its time to move into new things."

      How the fuck did such completely irrelevant comparisons become rated insightful.

      We've finally gone full circle; the justifications for DRM/game ownership/control have become as retarded as the justifications for piracy.

    40. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Your TV analogy is flawed because a TV is a means of viewing other media (tv shows and movies). Your ability to watch tv shows and movies was not in any way hampered by it. DRM / online activations is more akin to after X years, the manufacturer of your dvd player turns off their servers and your dvd player ceases to function - then in this hypothetical model, blu-ray does not play dvd's, so you must not only buy a blu-ray player, but you must repurchase all of your movies.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    41. Re:5, 10, 20 years down the road by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still play Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo all the time, along with a lot of other fighting games that came out in the mid to late 90s.

      I also play Touhou 4 a lot too (came out in 98) and just recently finished playing Raptor: Call of the Shadows (a game from 94) and it was still awesome.

  3. Game distribution by smittyoneeach · · Score: 5, Funny

    Game distribution
    A tragic solution
    The most horrid trick
    Since the disposable Bic
    Burma Shave

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    1. Re:Game distribution by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      MW2? What's that?

      A game I got for half off during a retailer special. Since other people I knew also picked it up (no idea how much they paid) having it now instead of ten years later allows me to play together with them.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    2. Re:Game distribution by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      Post of the day.

      Bravo, sir, bravo.

    3. Re:Game distribution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RFLOL. I see old people.

  4. Tell me about it! by gravyface · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Steam is such a huge PITA! Right-click > Exit. The nerve of them! And if I don't want it to load at startup? I have to (again) right-click, go to Settings, and uncheck that option. All this just so I can download games at almost 9Mb/s, whenever I want, at really competitive prices? BS, says I!

    --
    body massage!
    1. Re:Tell me about it! by Tukz · · Score: 1

      Competitive prices?

      I never buy new games on Steam, because they are more expensive than ordinary retail, with psychical media.
      Steam god awesome offers though, and I got about 60 games on my account because of those awesome weekend or holiday deals.

      But they don't have competitive prices, not in my country anyway.
      It's by far cheaper to order em from an online shop.

      And that's including shipping...

      The only reason I would actually pay a bit more on steam, is if the game couldn't be added to steam by retail key and I wanted to play it online with my steambuddies.

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    2. Re:Tell me about it! by Spad · · Score: 3, Informative

      Steam isn't a problem, it's when you've got 12 Steam clones from different publishers all of which are required for you to be able to play different parts of your games library.

    3. Re:Tell me about it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      psychical media

      Now that's a whole new distribution paradigm ;-)

    4. Re:Tell me about it! by delinear · · Score: 1

      The full prices aren't that great but they do often run deals and occasionally there'll be a pretty competitively priced game - considering the fact that you get to play sooner, it's not always the worst option. I've never bought one that way though (I refuse to have a credit card and it seems they don't, or didn't when I last tried, accept debit cards in the UK).

    5. Re:Tell me about it! by delinear · · Score: 1

      Get ready for thought DRM in 3... 2... 1...

    6. Re:Tell me about it! by delinear · · Score: 1

      These kind of services tend towards convergence in the long run. The more successful schemes such as Steam will continue to grow and absorb the lesser services - it's not like the market can support a massive number of service providers, and if it ever gets to the point where it's too much hassle, gamers will just avoid games outside their existing networks. I can't see many publishers happily throwing away potential customers on a shrinking platform for the possibility of some control in the future, except maybe the really big players such as MS.

    7. Re:Tell me about it! by Xest · · Score: 1

      Steam prices are far from competitive, they're standard maximum retail prices sure, but in the UK games that sell for around £20 - £23 on Amazon etc. brand new are £29.99 or £34.99 Steam.

      Steam prices do mirror those in retail stores like GAME and HMV, but these places are rediculously overpriced too when again compared to places like Amazon.

    8. Re:Tell me about it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thing is the best answer is why would you bother? At best there are only a few titles that are different. With Steam its the Half-Life series and spin offs, Impulse its the stardock library. The vast majority of publishers are on both. People will become centric on one and honestly ignore the others so this "problem" isn't going to exist. I've choosen to go with Steam, mostly because I was on it before Impulse and my library of games on it is up to 300 now(okay, okay, I'm a little OCD about having everything, but I can afford to). The weekend deals and other specials they run are an amazing value. I checked out Impulse but really besides a couple of titles I see no reason to bother with a second distribution system.

    9. Re:Tell me about it! by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

      The full prices aren't that great but they do often run deals and occasionally there'll be a pretty competitively priced game - considering the fact that you get to play sooner, it's not always the worst option. I've never bought one that way though (I refuse to have a credit card and it seems they don't, or didn't when I last tried, accept debit cards in the UK).

      My Lloyds TSB debit card has worked absolutely fine with Steam for as long as I can remember.

    10. Re:Tell me about it! by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      The only reason I would actually pay a bit more on steam, is if the game couldn't be added to steam by retail key and I wanted to play it online with my steambuddies.

      You can link external applications to Steam and it'll give you the overlay stuff, just no invite functionality. Of course many games lack that even in their Steam versions.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    11. Re:Tell me about it! by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      There's ClicknBuy that allows you to make Steam do direct debit to your bank account, provided you trust them enough (then again you can reverse direct debits like that if you think they're fraudulent)

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    12. Re:Tell me about it! by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      They are competitive in some instances, especially during their deals but if you know an American you'd trust enough to handle the buying part and "gifting" the game to you you can get games for their cheap, cheap US prices. I got Borderlands for ~25 when it was brand new because I grouped up with 3 other people and pre-ordered the four pack, we had the American in the group pay the money and had a 10% pre-order discount on top too so the final price was about half of what it would have cost at retail (or Steam regularly).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    13. Re:Tell me about it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they have accepted them since the UK store opened at the very least and I'm pretty sure before that even since i seem to remember buying games from it in my early uni days before the uk store...

    14. Re:Tell me about it! by Ralz · · Score: 0

      Last time I used steam they accepted PayPal, so that's what I use as I don't want a credit card either.

      --
      I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.
    15. Re:Tell me about it! by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was going to reply with some amusing-but-pithy comment, but I don't have the activation key.

    16. Re:Tell me about it! by Trixter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I learned this the hard way recently... I bought a few games because they were cheaper from other services, and was disappointed that the entire process wasn't as seamless as Steam is. Poor download times, odd licensing, and misbehaving system tray icons eventually forced me to re-purchase all my games from Steam just so I wouldn't have to deal with it. And I'm glad I did.

      One of the things I like about Steam is that, without any effort on my part, my games follow me. If I log into any computer in the world with the steam client, my games are there, ready to download and play. That's DRM I can live with.

    17. Re:Tell me about it! by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      Rentals are meant to be cheap and easy. If you wanted expensive and complicated, you'd buy it.

  5. No need for 16GB of memory? by lehphyro · · Score: 1

    Who said 4gb of memory would be enough for anyone?

  6. Ah yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    One of the reasons I quit PC gaming.

  7. Alternatives by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 0, Troll

    I think the scenario could play out that way, and it would truly suck for gaming.

    But we should keep perspective. Here are some ways you can still have fun even if/when this nightmare scenario occurs:

    • Go for a walk / bike ride / swim.
    • Grab a beer / coffee / soda with a friend you haven't seen in a while
    • Read a good, paper book.
    • Learn to cook your favorite food: Thai drunken noodles, some curry dish, a kick-butt chili recipe, chocolate chip cookies, etc.
    • Finally learn to play whatever instrument you've always wanted to learn.
    • Ask a local soup kitchen if they could use your help, even just once and for just a few hours.
    • Visit your parents. If they're getting older, ask if they could use any help with the house, yard, etc.
    • Sign up for a college course or some other course that might benefit you later on. Maybe take an introductory course at a trade school for basic plumbing, electrical, welding, etc.
    • If you have some nagging question about politics, medicine, religion, or economics: Crystallize the question into something specific, and hunt down an answer.
    • If you have a S.O., take him/her out for a date.

    All I'm saying is that even if we lose computer gaming from our lives, most of us can still be just as happy, as long as we get off our butts.

    1. Re:Alternatives by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

      I think the scenario could play out that way, and it would truly suck for gaming.

      But we should keep perspective. Here are some ways you can still have fun even if/when this nightmare scenario occurs:

      • Read a good, paper book.

      Or even a good, DRM-free e-book.

    2. Re:Alternatives by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      That's the most depressing list I've ever read.

    3. Re:Alternatives by sopssa · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I can't tell if he's being serious or sarcastic. Yes there are some other fun ways to spend time, but that list is just boring.

      Now here's a better list:

      * Drink beer
      * Go around and have sex with as many girls as you can

      Repeat.

    4. Re:Alternatives by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      But all of those require me to use a different distribution platform! So, I can't go for a walk and read a book and cook at the same time!

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  8. Typical /. BS by Eirenarch · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Somehow keeping your games up to date with an unified process is a bad thing? My CDs with old games no longer work but Steam still supports old games. You go buy useless plastic crap I'll buy my games from Steam. Lets see whose games will last longer.

    1. Re:Typical /. BS by Vanderhoth · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I own a Nintendo, Super Nintendo and tons of games I loved when I was a kid. I still play with my Nintendo and Super Nintendo, which still work almost 25 years later. When the systems eventually don't work anymore, I have Emulators and ROMs for all my games that let me play the games on my laptop and PS3 (with Linux installed on it). Let me know in 20 years how all those Steam games are working and what you can play them on. Should be interesting.

    2. Re:Typical /. BS by MORB · · Score: 2, Informative

      Typical /. kneejerk reaction comment from someone too lazy to read even the summary.

      If you did so, you'd have found out that what the guy complains about is in fact the lack of unification of the process, where every other game company seems to be rolling their own distribution platform with the assorted bundle of crapware to run the games on it.

      Heck, you can even run into these problems even if you install games only from steam.

    3. Re:Typical /. BS by lupis42 · · Score: 1

      Ah but what about the games that use Impulse, Direct2Drive, etc. The problem isn't Steam per se, the problem is that each publisher has at least one option, and sometimes two or three. For example, I own Red Alert 3, which I bought through Steam. But in order to play multiplayer, I need some stupid Gamespy program as well? I have Supreme commander, which I bought through Impulse, and which also requires Games for Windows Live. Why do I need 4 helper apps for 2 games?

    4. Re:Typical /. BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Am I the only person on slashdot who knows that you can play steam games without even logging in to steam? Everyone keeps making a fuss about steam going down.

      It. Won't. Matter.

      Valve games keep all their data in one huge container file, but other games simply create a directory and that container file (I guess) just points there.

      If you go into the game folder under commmon apps or whatever you can just run it like a normal game.

      The only games I've had trouble with are the Lucasarts adventure pack. They removed a few files. The game still runs fine, but you can't run it through scummvm.

    5. Re:Typical /. BS by Rockoon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The biggest sinner of all is rockstar games.

      Consider the PC release of GTA4. If you purchased the retail copy then it requires Games For Windows Live and Rockstar Social Club/b> ...

      ... but the fucking punchline is that this fucker also installs SecuROM.

      ..and no. Steam users are not off the hook. With the steam version you get all that, and also a Steam dependency!

      With that said.. I like Steam. Of the the nice things about steam is that they disclose the existence of any other DRM (besides Steamworks) prior to purchase. Steamworks is the least obnoxious of all the mainsteam DRM's out there, and you get a good bit of added value (unlimited downloads, no digging around for CD keys and the like..) for the trouble of dealing with it.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    6. Re:Typical /. BS by imakemusic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, I bought GTA IV through steam the other day. As well as it running like a bag of shite I also have to have the rockstar social club running (as well as steam). Also I had to sign up for the social club just to play the game. And then link that account to a windows Live games account. I tried using my existing windows Live account but it wouldn't let me link them (for some reason...it didn't tell me why) so I had to create a new one. So two new accounts in two software systems that are duplicating the functionality of Steam WHICH I'M ALREADY USING AS WELL!

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    7. Re:Typical /. BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google 'xliveless' - it's a replacement xlive.dll that you stick in the gta folder that fixes the problem. No stupid Windows Live, no annoying Social Club background process. No online or multiplayer either, but that's no great loss here.

    8. Re:Typical /. BS by moxsam · · Score: 1

      Lets see whose games will last longer.

      Ok, the bet is on!

    9. Re:Typical /. BS by harl · · Score: 1

      You missed the whole point.

      It's not a unified process. It's a dozen competing "unified processes". Some of which are going to fail. At which point you loose access to what you paid for.

      Would you buy a TV with the clause that Best Buy could come into your house and take it back at any time?

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    10. Re:Typical /. BS by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Let me know in 20 years how all those Steam games are working and what you can play them on

      Considering I can already play all my Steam games without Steam, the weak PC DRM's been cracked already, heck the strong PC DRM's been cracked already. Now lets see about the Xbox/Playstation games that are expecting hardware DRM, emulating a Sega Master System or SNES is easy, the Xbox is so locked up and DRMed up the Wazoo I don't think we'll ever see a decent emulator.

      I also still own a SNES, bought it from Ebay a few years ago. I also have an N64 for Mario Kart/Goldeneye (had since 1997). I've just retired an Xbox 1 that's played all of 1 game, it got moded and spent it's life playing movies.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    11. Re:Typical /. BS by Vanderhoth · · Score: 1

      I find the funny thing is I have a bunch of Nintendo & Super Nintendo games and quite a few PS1 and PS2 games. I've owned my PS3 since the week after it was released, but I only own two games for it. Little Big Planet (My wife wanted) and Folklore. I love my PS3 because of all the other things I can do with it besides play games. I'm not a first person shooter, racing, or sports game person. One of the things I've always thought the Play Stations were good for were their RPGs, but there haven't been any besides Folklore up to this year (FF 13 and White Knight Chronicles) that I've even remotely wanted to buy.

      All the PS1 and PS2 games I own. I'd be pissed if I bought one of the new PS3s that wouldn't let me play them. When they do eventually come out with a PS4 unless it's backward compatible with all three systems Sony can bit me.

      I don't want anyone to get me wrong. I've used Steam before and I did like it. I haven't used my account for probably almost a year. I have a habit of playing a game for awhile, not touching it for a very long time, then pulling it out again and enjoying it.

      So how long will my steam account remain active?

      Just last week I started a game of Dragon Worrier for the Nintendo, first game I ever owned and I haven't played it for going on 15 years at least. Will steam keep games I've bought that long?

      I'm not worried about the amount of money I spend on games, what I'm concerned with is will I be able to play those games in the many years to come and eventually share them with my kids? Most of the crap that's coming out today I won't be able to. I find a lot of stuff has DLC after you buy the game. If I owned Fallout 3 (a game I hear has lots of pay for DLC) in 20 years will I be able to get the DLC I've previously paid for back... Probably not. That's how I view services like Steam, but only time will tell if I'm correct, so...

      Let me know in 20 years how all those Steam games are working and what you can play them on

  9. Why the fuck do you think PC gaming is dying by syousef · · Score: 1

    Greedy motherfucking bastards, that's why.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:Why the fuck do you think PC gaming is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, its dying just like video killed the radio star. Its not dying jackass, its shifting. Todays pc games are not bout pushing the graphics or genres forward. Its about playing farmville will your professor lectures.

    2. Re:Why the fuck do you think PC gaming is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it still dying? I wish it'd hurry up, it's been on its last legs since 1986, apparently.

    3. Re:Why the fuck do you think PC gaming is dying by mjwx · · Score: 2, Insightful
      PC gaming is dying so fast that EA, Ubisoft et al have abandoned it so completely. I mean Modern Warfare will never be out on the PC.

      No wait...

      Greedy motherfucking bastards

      This is an example of why PC gaming is alive and well. PC games are cheaper then their Xbox and Playstation equivalents. Lets look at modern warfare 2 shall we, from the rip off merchants EB Games it costs A$119.95 on PS3, A$119.95 on Xbox360 and A98.00 on PC. Now if I go down the road to JB HiFi I can shave A$20 of those prices.

      At A$21.95 difference if I purchase 1 game a month I save A$263.40 over the course of a year, If I buy 2 games a month that's A$526.80. Now if my gaming PC costs A$1500, holy crap in three years it's paid for itself.

      If you're serious about gaming, you have a PC. Not only is it better (graphics, control, sound and so forth) it's cheaper.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  10. One of the many reasons I only play pirated games by GuyFawkes · · Score: 1

    If I double-click awesomegame.exe I DO NOT either expect or agree to awesomegame.exe launching three other TSR applications, modifying my system start up, filling up my taskbar, or anything else.

    The cracked / pirated version is simply superior.

    As long as game companies give me ZERO options, at any price bracket, just ZERO options, as though they are administrator of my computers and I am a mere user, then this will continue to be my policy.

    --
    http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
  11. Stardock by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

    I didn't think the Stardock games needed the Stardock client running when you play the game?

    (I'd check but it's been a few months since I played GalCiv and I deleted it just the other day to save space.)

    1. Re:Stardock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just installed Sins of a solar empire after buying their trilogy pack through impulse. It even picked up my existing pirated copy of Sins, installed the updates and entrenchment and away I was playing. Though it was only yesterday and I didn't really look for it specifically I'm pretty sure impulse does not have to be running to play. The whole transaction was surprisingly smooth.

      Anyway, most of the games will move over to Good Old Games once they get old (and of course, were good).

    2. Re:Stardock by Emerssso · · Score: 1

      You are correct. Stardock does not require that Impulse be running to run any game purchased through Impulse.

  12. Game distribution by TDyl · · Score: 1

    I don't really go in for early adoption of anything so I found my perfect game distributor in the shape of gog.com. Since I've been a member I've picked up DRM free versions of: Tex Murphy - Mean Streets, Martian Memorandum, Under A Killing Moon, The Pandora Directive and Overseer. Myst Masterpiece Edition, Riven, RealMyst and Uru Chronicles:Complete Collection. The Manhole: Masterpiece Edition (for the tripped-out stoner kid in me) and three freebies, the latter two I downloaded just for the hell of it - Beneath a Steel Sky, Lure of the Temptress and Teenagent. All this for about $40. Sometimes I do splash out though; I've bought all the Neverwinter Nights games and add-ons on release. MW2? What's that?

    --
    Todd: I hope it proves as delicious as the farmers that grew them
  13. You said "transfer". by tepples · · Score: 1

    being able to transfer games to another client without media

    That may work between PCs connected to the same Steam account. But the last time we discussed this, a licensee of a Steam game could not transfer a game to another Steam account. So I don't see buying a game on Steam as wise unless A. the game has substantial replay value, or B. the game is on sale for under $10 like a console game rental.

    They seem well worth the risk of losing the Steam servers.

    Copyrights last 95 years. Archives have to make sure that the authentic copies that they buy are usable at least until after the copyright has expired.

    1. Re:You said "transfer". by elzurawka · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not sure if the OP meant this, but I like the fact that if I have a game I like, for example L4D2 which is around 7 gigs, and a friend picks it up, I can bring over the backup files from my computer, and install the game using those. He does not have to go and waste a few hours re-downloading the games. All of my games are backed up to an external NAS at my house, and whenever I install them, its just a matter of clicking on the files on the NAS, and running the install. Then once its installed, the game is automatically patched to the latest version by steam( I can re-backup with this patch for next time ).
      I can then bring my NAS with my to my friends, and as long as he owns the license he can still use the same install files. Very much like when games were bought on physical media. The advantage? No Stupid CD/DVD protection, i can give him a COPY of the backup file on DVD if I like.
      No Key to remember. How many old games do I have that I no longer have the original packaging for? That means I have to crack the game to get around the activation key.
      Also I can keep redundant copies of the game at home, and if my house burns down, steam still has a copy for me. If I own all my games on DVD and my house burns down, I'm S.O.L.

      --
      -EL
  14. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good for you, snowflake.

  15. Redbox by tepples · · Score: 1

    Two hour movie ticket with popcorn and cola costs at least $10 per person.

    Here, physical media still have the advantage: DVD rental + 2-liter soda cost no more than $3 at any grocery store with a Redbox. And you don't have to worry about cell phones, crying small children, etc.

  16. GTA4 by asdf7890 · · Score: 1

    Ah, memories of having to sign up for, and have running, both "Games for Windows" and "

    This sort of junk reduces my willingness to pay good money for games. Going to the pub or buying a cheap DVD are both much less hassle ways to spend a little free time...

    1. Re:GTA4 by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      And....and what? I MUST KNOW! Although, if one of them is GfWL then maybe the other one was censored for our sanity and it is best kept secret!

      I agree, though. Why put so much junk on games? The only way not to be treated like a criminal these days is to be a criminal and pirate the game! There's something seriously wrong when it gets to that. They need to focus on the important stuff (producing good stuff) rather than on the pointless arms race that is "defeating the pirates". If you make stuff good enough then people will pay for it, and if they're not going to pay for it then they're not part of your target audience, so stop wasting money on them.

    2. Re:GTA4 by noidentity · · Score: 1

      The name of the game was obviously ^H.

    3. Re:GTA4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other one is Rockstar social club. If you get the steam version you will still get games for windows live, rockstar social club and one of the two forms of securom it uses along with steam. fun.

    4. Re:GTA4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed.

      I bought GTA IV for xbox and PS3. However, when the PC version came out....lets just say Razor1911 saves the day yet again.

      Unfortunately, the PC version that I had long anticipated turned out to be a badly ported console game and was terrible to play.

    5. Re:GTA4 by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      The missing words are:

      "Rockstar Social Club"

      See also my post above...

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    6. Re:GTA4 by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

      GTA4 was my first thought. Christ, what a clusterfuck that was to get installed and configured. I must have spent over two hours on that. Didn't help that my "live" account was actually an XBoxLive account created during the installation of Gears of War. (Yes, installing Gears of War on the PC involved creating an XBoxLive account even though there was no XBox involved.) So I dig up that login info, get GTA4 linked, create the Rockstar account, get GTA4 linked to it, then link those two accounts together. NOW can I play the damn game??? Oh. No. See, it turns out I need to be running a specific beta version of the video drivers for my card. Not the latest beta. The one a few patches back that I have to download from some rapidshare link gtad00d set up. Lemme just run that through about 10 virus scanners, thankyouverymuch. NOW can I play? Sure. But not with THAT game pad. Only the $50 Microsoft game pad is supported unless you install this hack...

      I can't wait for the next generation of consoles. The ones that will support true 1920x1080p (not the upscaled image today's consoles put out). The ones where all online activity will be managed through a single portal. The ones that don't break down every 6 months.

  17. This is not about distribution it's about control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Where did Shamus Young ever get the idea this was about publishers wanting to be the leader in 'serving content'. Nothing could be further from reality. I think he has fallen for the public relations excuses. If there was a list of priorities for these various systems, being the leader is way down the list.

    These so called distributors or publishers want two or three main things from this.
    1) Increased Profits. Only this tops the list and is the prime motivator. There are several things to follow that help ensure they reach the prime motive.

    Following that come other reasons for the creation of these customer frustrating systems. Publishers are moving to the rental model for games. You don't ever get a complete copy of the game you paid for and are always under the control of their authentication system. This may at the moment primarily be if you wish to go online to play but is slowly extending those tentacles to every game. Even now some games you purchase on cd require you either login or phone to have the game authorized before it will play. They have even demonstrated cd versions lacking extra content unless you register before you may download. The obvious next step goes beyond authentication into missing content required just to start the game.

    The importance of getting the public to accept these streaming authentication systems, is key to exercising full control over their product. They have had the desire for many years to enforce the part of the license where you don't own the game, but only license to use it. As this has progressed we have seen companies like EA begin to turn off games like the madden series. If people just think that only online support is where it ends they are living in a dream world. This is all about pay to play and finding business models that keep the revenue steam coming in. It is easy to see other entertainment industries moving in this same direction by controlling what you can do with content and where and when you may use/view that content you paid for.

  18. Games are a hassle by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 1

    Copy protection, cd lock, server authentication, or a combination there of have made PC games more annoying then fun over the years. I miss the old days when shareware was everywhere and games were just more fun to play.

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
  19. What do you do? by Max(10) · · Score: 1

    But what happens when you have programs from Valve, Stardock, Activision, 2k Games, Take-Two, Codemasters, Microsoft, Eidos, and Ubisoft?

    You check yourself into a video game addiction clinic.

  20. System tray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know this is somewhat OT, but:
    It's not called system tray
    It's called "Taskbar Notification Area"

    http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2003/09/10/54831.aspx

    1. Re:System tray by J_DarkElf · · Score: 1

      It runs in systray.exe under last gen Windows. Even Microsoft calls it a system tray at several places, like http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310578 & http://support.microsoft.com/kb/176085 & http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/bonuspack/powertoys.aspx#traycontrol to just name a few.

    2. Re:System tray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to this blog post, those references are bugs.
      It also explains the systray.exe issue

  21. Simple solution... by irchs · · Score: 1

    Simple solution: Just buy Valve/Steam games :D

    --
    Jan
    1. Re:Simple solution... by YojimboJango · · Score: 1

      That was my solution, but for the sake of the argument you probably shouldn't phrase it like that.

  22. A common annoyance, not just in gaming by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems every little crappy program or tool these days wants to install their own "helper" thingy, either hidden or in the task bar. I wish all software companies would be a little more responsible about the cruft they load our computers down with.
    5 Simple rules:
    - only run stuff in the background if there's a good reason for the job to run continuously.
    - for stuff that doesn't need to run all the time (and checking for updates most definitely belongs in this category), perform the task(s) when the associated program itself starts.
    - if it runs in the background, it goes on the task bar (so we know it's there)
    - if it runs at startup, there's a simple way (config setting) to disable it.
    - if running at startup is disabled but the job is essential for the associated program, the job is started automatically when the program is launched.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    1. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The biggest problem with Windows is that there is no central update system.

      On a Linux box you have your one-stop-shop Package Manager that updates everything on your system all at once when you ask. On Windows, you end up with every vendor creating their own update tool which generally includes a background service (Windows does have a cron daemon builtin but no-one bothers to use the damn thing!). MS really need to include some sort of central update system so program's can register a URL to download an XML file [or equivalent] containing information about updates from the vendor then that thing can have ONE service that checks all the programs on the system and prompts the user to agree to them ALL AT ONCE rather than one at a goddamn time [list of checkboxes]. (Actually installing updates is more problematic, a batch program that the update service can launch in the background provided by the vendor is probably the easiest way to go if you aren't using MSIs)

    2. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      - for stuff that doesn't need to run all the time (and checking for updates most definitely belongs in this category), perform the task(s) when the associated program itself starts.

      Make sure to add "or when the user desires it" or you get shit like Games for Windows Live requiring you to have the game running and in focus while downloading the patch (which can take hours depending on the size and the progress indicator seems to consider downloading the final 1% of the job), preventing you from doing anything else with the computer in the meantime. With Steam I can just start it and have it downloading in the background while I do other things, with GfWL doing anything else makes it cancel the download.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    3. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by 51mon · · Score: 1

      I don't think registering a URL to an XML file does the trick.

      The Linux distro's typically sign the packages, saying they were presented to the distro by someone they trust.

      You need some sort of security in place, otherwise the system is effectively trusting all the web servers in all the URLs, and we know how safe web servers are.

      But yes if Microsoft update updated everything, then people would have motivation for running it. Where as if it just updates a few system and Office - things that no one cares about till there PC is spamming - where is the motivation?

      But it boils down to the same thing, trusting a single central authority, and since Windows users implicitly trust Microsoft, it might as well be them.

    4. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      "Windows does have a cron daemon builtin but no-one bothers to use the damn thing!"

      Well, have you seen the API for using it? Starting services is way easier.

    5. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by Tinctorius · · Score: 1

      Formerly "5 Simple Rules For Running In My Background?", prior to the death of one of your CPU cores?

    6. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Ironically this is one of my biggest pet-peeves with android, despite the fact that it runs on linux.

      Everybody and their uncle wants their app to run a service. Often this functionality can't be disabled.

      Sure, it is nice that your mail app supports IMAP push and all that, but what if I only want to use it once a week? Why do I need it running 24x7 and waking the phone every time I get a network packet?

      Ditto for apps that go nuts about telling you about updates - go ahead and let me know once if you must, but isn't the whole reason for having a market so that every program doesn't need to manage its own updates?

      And, of course, there is no GUI for disabling services. As the phone owner I'd like to have a say in whether a given service runs or not. Sure, it is nice to have some disclosure when I install the app, but that only lets me choose whether to install it or not - not whether I want it to be running only when I want it to.

      Ditto for apps that enable location when I don't need it to - I can't override that and my only choice is to not run the app. Why can't I just tell the OS to save power and privacy and just feed the app a bogus location so that it is happy? Sure, I can turn the feature on and off at the phone level, but that is pretty inconvenient. And some apps might just refuse to run with it turned off - if I want to lie to the app, I should be able to do so.

    7. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by dkf · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem with Windows is that there is no central update system.

      The biggest problem with Linux is that it's comparatively hard for third-party software providers to plug into the central update system. It'd be really nice to be able to say that a particular website is definitive for a certain set of components; most software providers don't want to have to maintain a whole distro just for the purpose of supporting their own software!

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    8. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by FuckTheModerators · · Score: 1

      Just these days?

      This stuff really brings back memories of clearing out TSRs to run games in the early 90's. Tweaking config.sys and autoexec.bat to clear out that last few k of memory so Doom would run.

      This is not new. Fewer people care at this point because resources are not as scarce, but companies have been doing this for a very long time.

    9. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out Big Fish Games, their Game Manager only runs when the game you want to play is started, or quit. In order to show you the activation status, and time left for playing that game. It does have a background process, but that process only runs when you are running a game, and shuts down 5 minutes after your last game was quit.

      As a result, no annoying processes in the sys tray, no always running background processes. Yet it does update itself when it is started (though not automatically it asks first,) or when a new game is downloaded.

      I'd like to see more of the game distribution systems work in this manner.

    10. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      But it's my app, and mine is important!

      At least that's what I imagine they think.

      Sadly, this is exactly the same thing spammers think. What's one more email?

      It's why I regularly police my windows startups with Autoruns.

      --

      Question everything

    11. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by Hatta · · Score: 1

      - for stuff that doesn't need to run all the time (and checking for updates most definitely belongs in this category), perform the task(s) when the associated program itself starts.

      Doesn't Windows have something like /etc/cron.daily? Seems like that would be a good compromise between an always running updater, and one that updates when you start the game and delays your entry into the game.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by PGGreens · · Score: 2, Funny

      I just know that it'll all be worth it if I ever decide to get an iPhone. The Apple Mobile Device Manager has been warming up in the background for months!

    13. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by dkre · · Score: 1

      In some ways this could be likened to the US car industry. With practically free oil the automakers created monstrosities of excess all the way to their own downfall.

      There are murmurs about the environmental impact of PC's, there has to be a time where the market will turn against the idea of constantly requiring more hardware that consumes more energy to do the same thing we always have. Developers are very much in a 'cheap oil' mentality not just on assumptions of consumers willingness to upgrade but their willingness to waste vast amounts of bandwidth on their product.

      Why are drivers now in a 100mb package? Why are game updates are often 500+? There is never any extra content. How inefficient can developers get?

      Personally this is the end of gaming for me. Too many disappointments over the years from buying cheap titles that just don't run and aren't supported at all by the studio (on 9-12 month old titles) to having to trawl forums to get past communication errors with steam (thats user friendly).

      Is it wrong to want $100 software to run out of the box and to do so without being forced to provide my personal information? The software industry as a whole needs a big wake up call.

    14. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      It's not your computer. No common OS allows you to sandbox an app to just one folder, effectively cutting it off from the rest of the file system. Installing someone else's software on your computer effectively make it their computer.

      The fact that MS still defaults to creating an admin account by default doesn't help.

      Heck, I just downloaded an update to Flash a few days ago, and Adobe installed a download manager as a Firefox extension. If I hadn't manually removed it, it would still be running in the background, doing heaven knows what, slowing down my browser.

    15. Re:A common annoyance, not just in gaming by eloquent_loser · · Score: 1

      Nokia PC tools is one of the worst for this - I had to write a batch file to run after closing it to expunge it completely ;-)

      --
      The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. -- Percy Bysshe Shelley
  23. It's like Betamax vs VHS only worse by Aceticon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The natural conclusion from the article is that Game Distribution Platforms seem to be affected by networking effects - buyers gravitate to the one with the most games, sellers gravitate to the one where most buyers go to. This means that the market will move towards a situation where there are only one or two winners.

    This might seem like a good thing (fewer random background tasks running in people's PCs) until you think about those people that bought games in what turned out not to be one of the winning platforms: the games that they bought in that/those platforms typically will stop working when the servers are turned off (or, at best, you won't be able to do a new install ever again due to online activation).

    This is a bit like VHS vs Betamax (or HD-DVD vs Blueray) only much worse: anybody that bought movies in Betamax format can still play them as long as their Betamax player works, but anybody that buys a game that authenticates with a platform that later goes down will quite likelly be unable to play that game ever again once the authentication servers are stopped.

    Considering that the really good games are still played 5 or 10 years later (pretty much any gamer over 30 will be well aquainted with the experience of rediscovering an "oldy but goody" and playing it again), and that the game publishers rarelly have any interest in keeping the game going once they stop selling it, even those whose games which where bought in a platform that is still going 5 of 10 years in the future still run the risk of having their games killed by after-sale, arbitrary planned obsolescence.

    Me, I vote with my wallet and refuse to buy any games that have online activation and/or authentication for single player gaming (currently playing "X3:Terran Conflict" on the PC, bought after they removed DRM with patch 2.5): if others did the same the industry would give up on this.

    1. Re:It's like Betamax vs VHS only worse by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      anybody that buys a game that authenticates with a platform that later goes down will quite likelly be unable to play that game ever again once the authentication servers are stopped.

      That's the point at which the user can pirate the game without any need to breach their ethics. If I buy a game (the hell with this "licence" bullshit) and some triviality like an authentication server not being available stops me playing it you can be damn sure I'll pirate it in a heartbeat. Technically I suppose that would still be a crime, but any sane-person would agree that it's morally right.

      --
      You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
  24. There are other content delivery systems... by DiscountBorg(TM) · · Score: 1

    ...that will probably exist to meet the needs of us gamers who can't be bothered with having to jump through hoops to play a game. For example, I'm frequently on the go, my gaming PC is a laptop, and there is nothing more annoying than having to rely on finding a sketchy wi-fi signal coming from somewhere just to be able to play my Steam-powered games. (And no, realistically, offline mode in steam is simply not reliable). So, given the choice to buy say for example Bioshock off of steam or from a system such as Direct2Drive that gives me a download and an install key, I'll avoid Steam when I can.

    --
    "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw
    1. Re:There are other content delivery systems... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Fun fact: Games on Steam that have CD keys usually have some option in Steam's menu to see what that key is.

      So, the hard part is finding the install files.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  25. OldSchool emulation by DrYak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Old school emulation suffers from this too :
    - most of the original purchased magnetic-media have bit-rotten by now and/or the necessary hardware to read them (ALONG WITH all the protection weirdness - not just any reading drive, but one producing exactly the glitches on which the protection scheme relies) might be broken.

    Meanwhile
    - all the pirated versions are still around fully enjoying digital mortality (once a soft is only a bunch of bits - with no physical media or protection attached - it costs almost zero to copy it). Want to rediscover some long-lost gem ? No problem, just don't pay much attention to the "crack-tro" tacked at the beginning. And, as a bonus, you usually even got a "trainer" built-it so you can still enjoy the game even if our modern-day tastes are less into games were you constantly die.

    "Pirates" are todays most corporate-hated criminal, but tomorrow people-loved archivists.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:OldSchool emulation by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      And then there are sites like Good Old Games, which remove the copy protection/DRM with the publisher's blessing, patch the game up to the latest version, and distribute them for the price of a combo meal at Schmucky's.

      In fact there are no other sites like GOG that I can think of. There is only GOG.

      GOG rules.

  26. Microsoft and X-Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS can't stop people releasing games on PC, but they sure can make it difficult for people to PLAY games on PC.

    GFWL is ***NOT*** needed in the majority of cases but you see how the game industry abide by that unwritten (or non-disclosure) rule --- you wanna get your game distributed? You have to run GWFL or else !

  27. Dawn of War 2 by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

    I loved the original - I met a guy playing it in an apartment I rented in Amsterdam's red light district after Expedia failed to book my hotel - thought "wow, someone made an awesome looking 40k game!" and thus my foray into RTS' began. Didn't play a great deal online, mostly over the LAN with friends and beer, had a great time, and this served as a nice intro to Relic's superb WW2 RTS Company of Heroes, which I also love.

    I was looking forward to the DoW sequel... until I found out that it would not only require Steam but also the obnoxious Games for Windows bullshit; not one but two annoying programs wanting to run and check up on me every time I want to boot into a game just to watch a 20 minute replay. Bioshock 2 was going to be a sure fire purchase until I found out it was getting Games for Windows as well - for a single player game?!

    Fuck this whole "we'll dictate the terms in which we'll allow you to get value for the money you give us from now until the end of time!" attitude, games publishes seem to have contracted an acute case of Zeus syndrome; they think they're gods, they love playing absurd little mind games with all their paeons, they expect worship and sacrifice and they'll fuck you in the arse if they don't get it.

    Console gaming is getting just as bad; my the next gen of consoles everything will be "rental" only, whether it's delivered on physical media or not.

    --
    Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    1. Re:Dawn of War 2 by YojimboJango · · Score: 1

      To be fair the first BioShock ran about the same kind of system. History showed us that they disabled the GFWL and SecurRom phone home if you bought it off Steam a few months after release. It's mostly just there to give headaches to the people that are cracking the game.

    2. Re:Dawn of War 2 by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      I bought a physical copy of Bioshock about a year ago, it didn't have any GFWL integration at all (not sure about SecuROM.

      I don't have any problems with games being released with Zeus syndrome, as long as those protections are removed/relaxed over time so I can buy it... but when they're integrated into the way the game is run there's no escape.

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    3. Re:Dawn of War 2 by Hatta · · Score: 3, Funny

      I loved the original - I met a guy playing it in an apartment I rented in Amsterdam's red light district after Expedia failed to book my hotel - thought "wow, someone made an awesome looking 40k game!"

      You were stranded in Amsterdam's red light district, and the best thing you could find to do was play video games?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Dawn of War 2 by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      For reasons my attorney advises me not to go into, both getting into and leaving the apartment was a tad tricky - if anyone of you has ever tried to negotiate one of these staircases (mine was steeper and darker than that) after a couple of beers then imagine what it's like after a couple of... err... hours of watching computer games that have made your eyes go all funny ;)

      Suffice to say it was three in the morning after a visit to a rather moreish chocolate shop and for reasons unknown I was quite enjoying watching hundreds of little daemons running around spitting fire. And watching DoW.

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    5. Re:Dawn of War 2 by mjwx · · Score: 1

      You were stranded in Amsterdam's red light district, and the best thing you could find to do was play video games?

      50 Euro on 10 minutes of entertainment or 50 Euro on several hours of entertainment, you tell me.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  28. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

    The biggest problem is that you buy a game and you have the a PC of more than the minimum spec ..and then you spend ages getting it to run because of all the verification, patches, upgrades it needs to run

    What happened to the games you could run from the disk, or install in 5 minutes ....

    And on the day you internet connection goes down you cannot play them not because you no longer have a licence or it is unpatched, but simply because it cannot get access to the server to verify itself

    --
    Puteulanus fenestra mortis
  29. What do you mean "eventually"? by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    ...would eventually end up clogged with loaders, patchers, helpers, and monitors.

    They'd have to join the queue, then. This has long been a headache with all software and device drivers, not just games.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  30. Why worry about 10, 20 years, how about 2-3? by HockeyPuck · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't forget that companies are already shutting down their own game servers to get people to play the newer games. Madden 07 and 08 are already being shut down...

    1. Re:Why worry about 10, 20 years, how about 2-3? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why I don't care about Madden servers being shut down: "It's f***ing Madden!"

  31. Platform values: PC love freedom by Tei · · Score: 1

    If you want a platform where a single entity controls everything, even the right to run a game, so you can't play game A, because you have the creator of the platform to authorize it. There are consoles.

    If you want freedom, you have the PC.

    And withouth options, freedom is meaningless. I use Steam, because is the best (read: more convenient, run smooth) system. But there are other options, so If I don't like Steam because whatever reason, I can switch to any other digital shop, like Impulse, or D2D.

    FREEDOOM!. If you don't like FREEDOOM, you will not like the proliferation of systems. If you hate freedom, you buy a console.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

    1. Re:Platform values: PC love freedom by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      If you want freedom, you have the PC.

      I use Steam

      DOES NOT COMPUTE

  32. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by RogueyWon · · Score: 1

    Of course, when you run your nice, DRM-free, cracked awesomegame.exe, what also often happens is that three separate bits of actual (not figurative) bits of malware that were included in the cracked awesomegame.exe also start up. These have the wonderful side-benefits of installing a keylogger (allowing for innovative social-network-style sharing of all of your passwords etc), giving you exciting NSFW pop-ups 24/7 (no need to go browsing for your dirty pictures any more) and reducing your system performance even more than Norton does (which I admit takes some doing).

    Seriously, I do semi-regular tech-support for a variety of friends, relatives and acquaintances and cracked games and applications are probably the most common vector these days for the swarms of malware the consistently infect their PCs. The last thing you should assume is that a cracked game won't be starting off any processes you don't want it to.

  33. This is a real problem by dangitman · · Score: 4, Funny

    The proliferation of game distribution platforms is very annoying. Which is why I am the CEO of a company that is introducing an innovative new product that distributes and manages game distribution platforms.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
    1. Re:This is a real problem by mounthood · · Score: 1

      The proliferation of game distribution platforms is very annoying. Which is why I am the CEO of a company that is introducing an innovative new product that distributes and manages game distribution platforms.

      So can I play meta-games on this new platform?

      --
      tomorrow who's gonna fuss
    2. Re:This is a real problem by LethargicParasite · · Score: 1

      Me too!
      ...
      Shit.

  34. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think I've heard of a TSR application for at least 15 years. Did you know we have multitasking operating systems now?

  35. Terrible Analogy by StayFrosty · · Score: 0

    That analogy is terrible. It may work if Microsoft's primary business model was selling music, but we all know that is not the case. Valve distributes all of their games on Steam. Valve has a vested interest in keeping Steam running since it is needed for all of their (current) and their partners (MW2 for example) flagship products to work.

    --
    "Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
    1. Re:Terrible Analogy by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      That analogy is terrible.

      I'm sorry you're not satisfied with the analogy. I will be happy to send you a full refund if you send me all of your contact information including date of birth and SSN.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Terrible Analogy by Hatta · · Score: 1

      And what happens when Valve gets bought?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Terrible Analogy by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      The theoretical buyer will dissolve Valve's most lucrative strategic property. Duh.

    4. Re:Terrible Analogy by icebraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

      MW2 only has to work until MW3 gets out. Then Activision will be happy if Steam disconnects it.

      Just look at Metal Gear Solid 3:

      Konami has announced that the Metal Gear Solid 3 Subsistence online servers will be shut down in North America on April 2, 2007. Released less than a year ago, it seems the Metal Gear Online community wasn't strong enough to sustain interest from Konami to keep internet-based play up and running.

      Emphasis mine.

    5. Re:Terrible Analogy by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      I expect that steam will start to deprecate games that are not longer "worth it". Then we will say to all the steam fans, "told you so".

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
  36. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by GuyFawkes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Two points.

    1/ I fail to see the difference between crapware from the game company and crapware from the kiddies.

    2/ Non sequitur, if I am tech savvy enough to not allow one, I am tech savvy enough to not allow either.

    --
    http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
  37. Not rocket science by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

    So disable the auto start-up for each of the services, then schedule them all to run overnight once a week to get your updates. I'm not a fan of the proliferation of these services either, but this isn't rocket science.

    There's not much use moaning about it. These things aren't going to amalgamate into one big service any time soon. Sure, it'd be easy enough technically, and great for the end-user, but it doesn't allow gaming companies to grab extra money from you in the short term, so no-one will even considering implementing it.

  38. This is the DM of the Rings guy by dcoe · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... for those of you who don't recall

    http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612

    --
    "If you ain't got a camel, you ain't Shiite."
  39. Easy Answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Though PC games offer the most flexibility (in terms of the hardware they run on) and the "wonder" that is keyboard and mouse play, that is really about where the best parts end. The extra support that is required to secure, deploy, and support on multiple platforms that are only somewhat standardized produces the same problem: quality. No one wants to buy buggy anything.

    I see console gaming continuing to rise - a standard platform with expected results, defined limits, and a higher degree of quality (yes, some games are patched just as much but there seems to be more stringent standards for a ptach). Plus, there is no system tray. I made the switch in August of 2009 and haven't looked back since, except for Planet MULE which /. carried a story on not too long ago. I am happy with my XBox and am looking forward to buying Mass Effect 2 today. Here's to standardized console gaming and a unique living room experience...

    Yup, I happily drink the koolaid.

  40. Machine profiles would be a good idea by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    I wished Windows or Linux had a feature to allow you to specify application sets in a special profile. When you logged in you could which machine configuration you wanted to log into. Then it would only run the apps specified in that profile (minus all the extra services etc from other software).

    So I would have a Game profile which would have most extras turned off. AV scanners, Printer driver etc.. And a Work profile (SQL, Visual Studio, IntelliJ) etc...

    1. Re:Machine profiles would be a good idea by Hatta · · Score: 1

      It's called user accounts. Or was this a joke?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Machine profiles would be a good idea by sproketboy · · Score: 1

      Er no. User accounts don't control services and many resident applications that get installed.

    3. Re:Machine profiles would be a good idea by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Make yourself an ~/.xinitrc or ~/.bashrc with the commands to start and stop services as you need.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  41. Steam or Bust by ATLHivemind · · Score: 1

    When Steam first came out it was horribly broken.
    I avoided CS 1.6 because of it.
    then I bought Half-Life 2 and was forced to use Steam.
    In the beginning it sucked, then things got better.
    By the time The Orange Box came out, it was rock-solid and just too freaking easy. (Disclaimer, I'm in the US)
    I maintain a copy of SteamApps on my file server (currently ~80GB). I can reload my game rig with impunity and just copy the files back. Or just let steam sit open overnight and all day when I'm at work. By the time 5pm rolls around I have a slew of games installed without me having to juggle discs and keys.

    I used to be a devout follower of Westwood (RIP) and Maxis (RIP) then they started to suck after EA bought them out and everything got DRM'ed to hell.
    I vote with my dollars these days. Steam may not be perfect, but is has the virtue of being GOOD ENOUGH.
    Hell, I could even reload HL 1 (ancient game that it is) and play that if I wanted.

    I recently went about loading up my old standbys, Quake, DooM and Red Alert (1). Gameplay sucked from what I've become accustomed to.
    Yes, nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but for things like FPS and RTS games, progress is better.

    What I really miss are the flight sims, mostly X-Wing, TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance. Those don't play well on Windows 7. I have the discs, just no way to really play em.

    1. Re:Steam or Bust by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What I really miss are the flight sims, mostly X-Wing, TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance. Those don't play well on Windows 7. I have the discs, just no way to really play em.

      X-Wing and TIE Fighter should both be playable in DOSBox.

    2. Re:Steam or Bust by robot256 · · Score: 1

      I have a way to play them. It's a vintage-2000 1.2Ghz Athlon box with XP Pirate Edition. Upgraded the RAM to 2GB (kinda pointless) and the graphics card to a vintage-2005 model and it runs Age of Empires, Total Annihilation, Worms Armageddon, you name it. Stuck it on a KVM switch with my main box. Best part is it was all free.

    3. Re:Steam or Bust by robot256 · · Score: 1

      Forgot to mention, I upgraded the graphics card so it would display properly on my 20" 1680x1200 flat panel. Not everything has to be vintage--I will never miss my 15" CRT.

    4. Re:Steam or Bust by kalirion · · Score: 1

      If you play old games, you owe it to yourself to play them on a CRT at their native resolution, without the blurring/smudging that LCDs create when scaling up.

    5. Re:Steam or Bust by robot256 · · Score: 1

      Ah, well Age of Empires II and Total Annihilation at least have the ability to use the higher resolution. It is pretty awesome being able to see 4x as much of the map as in the old days...But I agree with you for something like Xwing the LCD could present a challenge.

  42. Future is now by icsx · · Score: 1

    When Valve created Steam, they did it because there was no system for distributing games over internet and everyone said that the technology is 5-10 years in the future, not now. So we have had Steam now for several years and it's the most used games distribution system over internet.

    What comes to the game updating, internet connection speeds get faster. PC's get faster. Systems are online more and more daily so if everything is automatic and game gets a patch, it's not a very long waiting period when you have that downloaded. Of course it depends from your own internet connection.

    Some of these digital distributing services will either go down or will be bought by another but the faster these things start working together and putting up more games into the catalogs, the less issues there will be in the future.

  43. URL of EULA on outside of box by tepples · · Score: 1

    in Germany EULAs are only legally binding if you were already presented with them while buying the software. Eulas presented while installing the software or just present in the packaging are unenforcable.

    Retail packages of Microsoft software conspicuously display the URL of the EULA so that the buyer is encouraged to read the terms on a Web terminal inside the store. Does this count as the buyer having been "already presented with them"?

  44. Rights of the owner of a lawfully made copy by tepples · · Score: 1

    You actually don't own the games you buy physically either.

    In the United States, "the owner of a lawfully made copy of a computer program" has specific rights under copyright law. These include reselling the copy (17 USC 109), installing the copy onto a computer's storage (17 USC 117), and loading the copy into RAM (17 USC 117).

  45. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by TheLink · · Score: 1

    I played a free MMORPG (runes of magic) for a number of weeks, but I gave up after a while because:
    1) they seemed to require massive downloads way too often. They'd screw up their patches too. My internet connection isn't fast, so having to wait hours to download 1GB or 4GB just to play their game is rather deterring.

    You'd have thought they'd put a lot more effort into reducing the bandwidth used for updates to cut their costs and increase their user base.

    2) the game lags a lot at the wrong times (e.g. when there are more than a few enemies) - maybe it's my internet connection - but a lot of people in certain areas of the game (not the "real world") seemed to complain about the lag too.

    --
  46. Screw distribution platforms. by mweather · · Score: 1

    My favorite game distribution platform is the internet.

  47. The market always will tell by Dracolytch · · Score: 1

    A bunch of these guys are doomed...

    Stardock? I got bad news for impulse powered... They can't even get the demo version of Demigod working on my machine... I'm not buying anything through their service.

    I'm glad that EA got out of digital distribution. Their old terms of service were HORRIBLE. You had to buy the game, and then give them additional money to keep your license so you could re-download it later. Talk about not understanding the basics of customer service.

    Valve/Steam really seems to understand this is about customer service. That said, I think there are too many ads for my liking. If I want to buy a game, I know where to go. That said, the nice thing is that I don't think they advertise anything I already own.

    ~D

    --
    This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
  48. Escrow by tepples · · Score: 1

    they'll get bought out by some corporation, which will prevent the publication of such a patch

    Unless the patch is already in escrow.

    1. Re:Escrow by GigG · · Score: 1

      Steam has been updated 7 times in the last 6 days. What are the chances that a patch written at some point in the past would even work a little now?

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    2. Re:Escrow by tepples · · Score: 1

      The patch in escrow would probably apply against the retail version. In the worst case, you'd have to virtualize Windows XP to run the patched game.

    3. Re:Escrow by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Because all the patch would do would be to decrypt the game files?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  49. Getting the finger from the cloud. by GrantRobertson · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is the problem with frikkin cloud computing. Everybody and their brother wants to reach down from that cloud and stick their finger in your pie. When they are done they just give you the finger and you are left with a useless mess in your pie-tin.

    Just imagine a sick cross between Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel and American Pie.

  50. pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by h00manist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The tons of "abandonware" games out there attest to this reality. For commercial apps as well, there should be "end-of-life" terms right at the time of purchase, and put into the EULA. At a minimum, access to binaries and some sort of new-users-enabling license after the product is no longer sold. Ideally, the source should become accessible, under some sort of license, after a number of years, to allow updates etc. Smaller publishers would perhaps include an agreement to open-source it after a certain amount in sales. Source to the community features, system applets, and servers need to be included for some products. Basically the EULA agreements, as contracts, have to be reviewed to include rights for users too, not just publishers, or they should be refused. Shall we shart demanding user-sponsored lawyers to rewrite publishers EULA contracts before certain user groups recommend the products "fair EULA terms" ?

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    1. Re:pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by jack2000 · · Score: 1

      What irks me whit our current state of affairs is that you get to read the EULA AFTER buying the physical copy.
      What instead we should be doing is you should be presented with the EULA before you buy the product.
      Ideally some kind of representative should be accessible so that i can request a different EULA just for me with their lawyers etc...
      I'm not even sure weather EULAs as they are used now are legal in my country.

    2. Re:pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      It's been a few years since I re-posted this, so here goes:

      Actually, it doesn't work like that at all.

      In most places, there are basically two types of written contracts that the law recognizes:

      1. Negotiated - What you're thinking about, where you and another party have the ability to negotiate, haggle, and come to a consensus.
      2. Contracts of Adhesion - These include EULAs, the contract between you and your electric company, the contract you agree to when you buy an airline ticket, etc. These are a non-negotiable, "take it or leave it" proposition.

      Seems unfair, doesn't it? There is a bright side. Contracts of Adhesion are generally held to a higher standard than Negotiable contracts. If there's ambiguous wording, or a typo, or whatever, it doesn't matter, the law will err on the side of taking that literally, and the company or entity that wrote the contract is held responsible. Basically, if in doubt, with a Contract of Adhesion, the law will side with the party that had no choice.

      We use these contracts every day. No major, large scale provider of services would be able to do business without them. Public utilities, airlines, software vendors, schools, telcos, ISPs all use these types of contracts.

      IANAL, but I have some experience with contract law. Of course laws will vary from location to location, but in much of the western world, the picture I describe is fairly accurate.

      That said, I do agree with you that it's unfair to be unable to read an EULA prior to purchasing and opening the product. I've never really looked into this, but have long suspected it to be unenforceable.

    3. Re:pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      The term "abandonware" is... iffy at best.

      Lately, there's been a resurgence in retro games. Five years ago, you could have said Sierra's old adventure games were all abandonware. Yet, today you can buy most of the King's Quest and all of the Space Quest games on Steam.... possibly through Good Old Games

      The rise of digital distribution services, due to their popularity and ease, is suddenly causing companies to un-abandoning those "abandonware" titles.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    4. Re:pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smaller publishers would perhaps include an agreement to open-source it after a certain amount in sales.

      That means the good games would have an early end of life for the company to make a profit, and the sucky games would never have a chance to be fixed.

    5. Re:pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by h00manist · · Score: 1

      hmm yes actually the microsoft eula does give you money back if you reject the contract, doesn't it? they could make it legal by doing that perhaps. not too practical to put the contract outside the box, but they could have a URL and a short summary for the contract on the box. in any case, in the case of software the response for many people is actually "i choose to disagree, use the product anyway, not pay for it, and completely violate the terms, betting on 99-percent likelihood of no personal adverse consequences." the problem lies in that socially, there are some adverse consequences.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    6. Re:pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by Supurcell · · Score: 1

      not too practical to put the contract outside the box...

      It's not on the outside of the box, because it's obscenely long and written in convoluted legalize. Which obscures the meaning of the contract to their target demographic.

    7. Re:pre-purchase end-of-life terms- publish source? by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about Microsoft giving you your money back if you reject their EULA. If it's the case, I can understand it. They probably figure the number of people who would do this is quite small, so the money they'd loose would be insignificant. Meanwhile these types of people would try this tend to be quite vocal, and a source of bad PR. Many other companies probably don't have this same policy, though.

      As for putting the contract outside the box, I can't speak to other locations besides the United States, but there does seem to be a quite similar law that's been on the books since the 1970s that is just as "impractical" (paraphrasing your words) as providing EULAs prior to sale.

      The Magnuson-Moss Act of 1975 defines certain protections that manufacturers and retailers must provide to consumers for most products.

      Among the provisions of the act, there is a clause that states (for retailers) "If you sell directly to consumers who come to your place of business to buy, you must make written warranties available at the point of sale. You must do this with all written warranties on the products you sell warranties from manufacturers, as well as any written warranties you extend."

      For a bit more detail (it provides many other consumer protections as well):
      The FTC's summary of the Magnuson-Moss Act.

      While warranties are not EULAs, they are often lengthy contracts. So this is something of a prior precedent. There is ZERO reason a retailer couldn't provide EULAs in a file for each SKU it carries. They already do this with physical products. You'll note that under the act, the method of providing the warranty is not specified. Showing the customer the warranty on the manufacturer's web site is even acceptable. As long as it's made available upon request.

      Best Buy (whom I once worked for) kept warranty info for most of it's products on it's internal intranet. For the few products that slipped through the cracks and weren't on the intranet, it was policy to first check the manufacturer's web site, then failing that, simply open one of the products off the shelf, and let the customer inspect the printed warranty provided by the manufacturer. Again, there is nothing that would make a law or regulation providing similar protection to EULAs any less practical than this existing law. I suspect it might even be possible simply to amend this act to include this rule.

  51. I never bought a game via Steam and never will by moxsam · · Score: 1

    I had installed Steam back in the days of CS 1.6 when they made the transition to using Steam. I know there are currently a lot of interesting independent games sold and distributed by Steam, and not to mention some of the major games. But I just don't want to install and load software onto my system that way. The whole idea that I use a content access system where I log in with an ID (wtf?!?) in order to browse and install games as "modules" is just freaking me out. I'm not in control of what is happening, although I'm the admin of my machine. That's just plain weird and wrong.

  52. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by moxsam · · Score: 1

    I don't know where your friends and family get their cracks from, but it seems to be the wrong place.

  53. PC Gaming Alliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is where the PC Gaming Alliance could be useful by creating/expending a standard like XMPP but for digital distribution of games.
    So you can choose the client you want, and subscribe to online store from EA, Steam, Impulse etc..
    They could be a neutral actor federating the PC gaming distribution .. but I guess it's easier to make timid statement about DRM.

  54. Not just Distribution Services by theJML · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The battle for my system tray is getting crazy lately in general. I don't subscribe to any of the digital distribution channels (except iTunes), but things keep filling my system tray and I don't like it.

    Why does everything have to have a quick start agent? It's one of the first things I disable. I know for a fact I'm not going to use the program everytime I turn on my computer, so why waste the time when booting?! Also, if I wanted to load the program, then I don't mind waiting for the program to load, is it that hard of a concept?

    And if your program takes THAT LONG TO LOAD that you have to have a QUICKSTART feature, I think it's time to rethink your program's requirements and efficiency!

    I suppose the fact that they download updates in the background is handy for some people, but I really don't want my PC doing anything that I didn't tell it to do. In fact, I don't like patching things all willy-nilly either.

    --
    -=JML=-
  55. A simpler solution (Linux solved it ages ago) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you follow this scheme to its logical conclusion, you'll see that the system tray of every gaming PC would eventually end up clogged with loaders, patchers, helpers, and monitors.

    apt-get update

  56. Failure to rerelease can be a mother by tepples · · Score: 1

    And then there is the Wii offering older games through the Wii shopping channel.

    Let me know when any of the three Mother games show up on the North American Wii Shop Channel. English translations of the first two are known to exist; Nintendo even published the second one as Earthbound.

  57. I boycott all non-standard game delivery platforms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I enjoy buying everything second-hand because I want the game industry (as it exists today) to collapse. Unless the developer releases source code for older games, I don't give a rat's ass about them. Most of these people just want to install malware on my PC to make my disks wear out.

    I still buy new games from id Software. They are the only ones who treat customers with a shred of respect.

  58. My Copy of KOTOR by ink · · Score: 1

    I recently installed Knights of the Old Republic on my Windows 7 box and could not, for the life of me, get it to work properly. I tried various patches from dead websites after applying the most "recent" patch from Bioware. After giving up on that, I ponied up $5 for the Steam version, which installed and works flawlessly (it has a newer version number than any of my attempts). Chalk one up for the cloud version being better than actually owning the discs.

    --
    The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
    1. Re:My Copy of KOTOR by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      You are the type of consumer the RIAA loves. They just made you pay for the same game twice - you fell into their nefarious trap!

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    2. Re:My Copy of KOTOR by ink · · Score: 1

      My point was that sometimes, cloud services are better than "owning" physical media. My 2-disc set of KOTOR did not work, but Steam did. The $5 was well spent.

      --
      The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
  59. Re:This is not about distribution it's about contr by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

    "Where did Shamus Young ever get the idea this was about publishers wanting to be the leader in 'serving content'. Nothing could be further from reality.",/em>

    They could want to be teddy bears dancing like adorable ballerinas with candy cane umbrellas and sugar floss wigs.

    Is that further enough from reality for you?

  60. Doesn't Bother me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I p2p all my games. I let the fools who buy deal with all of the bullshit.

  61. NOES MAH SYSTEM TRAYS! by Moheeheeko · · Score: 1

    system tray out of hand? CBF to do into the msconfig and set what starts up? go here :http://www.docsdownloads.com/Tier1/enditall.htm download enditall when you start your pc, run it a few times system tray empty PROBLEM SOLVED!

  62. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You do in fact have the option of spending your time differently.

  63. GOG.com, great alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think we need to rely much more on sites like GOG.com. Amazing good games; DRM free for dirt cheap. And considering the lack of better or more creative games of late, this is a delightful alternative. Although I do pirate a lot of software, I dearly hope that GOG games don't end up on torrent sites. The money paid is well worthwhile. Especially for the games which weren't so popular because they didn't hit the silly recent traditions of marketing games for the lazy consumer, rather than the old times when games used to be based on creative freedom and artistic visions... MMORPGs are so thin on gameplay, and seem to exist purely for money.

  64. Games are for wankers by dogzdik · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Given the costs and most of the bullshit the people in the companies impose and the generally piss poor service, I'd rather be out the shed doing stuff, instead of wasting my life on a computer screen.

    --

    .

    Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.

  65. Re:One of the many reasons I only play pirated gam by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

    The cracked / pirated version OF THE EXE is simply superior.

    If you're not buying the game, you're part of the reason why were here in the first place.

  66. What I wouldn't give for a simple CD check by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

    Cd-check algorithms, I'm sorry I ever complained about you. In fact, you're still here. Problem is you're not alone.

  67. money for open-source game programmers by h00manist · · Score: 1

    we need is to figure out a way to get some money for people to do more work on open source. perhaps a model where a title is published initially for-pay, and when it reaches a particular sales level, goes open-source. it should encourage people to buy it now, knowing they are actually contributing toward a soon-to-be open source product. it doesn't provide for the programmer while he's working however. another model could be to organize vacations, camps or trips for programmers to nice locations to go and stay for a while and work on a particular product while they're there, and whatever comes out of it becomes open source.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/