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California To Create Public Animal Abuser Registry

An anonymous reader writes "California legislators are moving forward with plans to create a public, online, animal abuser registry identical in function to the public sex offender registry. Is this the slippery slope to further government mandated lists and registries?"

404 comments

  1. Sounds Good To Me by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There will always be a stigma associated to certain types of crimes. Animal abuse is one of them. Long after they serve their far too short sentences they will still get to live with what they've done ... and we'll get to share the knowledge of their past with them.

    1. Re:Sounds Good To Me by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do we get to add the person that raised and killed your dinner on that list?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Sounds Good To Me by NervousNerd · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Animal abuse and a sex offender are in entirely different leagues. I can see if people want to know if their neighbor touched children in the past, but this? What next? A public "traffic violation registry"? What happens after that?

    3. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Do we get to add the person that raised and killed your dinner on that list?

      Maybe you need to understand the difference between farming and abuse.

      As long as the animals are treated humanely, it's not abuse, and therefore the farmers are not abusers.

      And BTW, I'm a vegetarian.

    4. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      Animal abuse and a sex offender are in entirely different leagues.

      Not if the offense was bestiality, from a conservative point of view, though it's difficult to argue that a male horse or dog was "harmed" by being fellated by a human.

    5. Re:Sounds Good To Me by wizardforce · · Score: 1, Informative

      Veal comes pretty close.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    6. Re:Sounds Good To Me by terraformer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is where those people want to take this. How much animal abuse is by teenagers with a thing for cats and how many of these convictions are for farmers. How many are serious convictions and how many are you forgot some technicality when constructing the horse shelter? As it stands today, in MA, professional licenses are pulled when you are a felon, on a sex registry (you don't have to be a felon...), under a RO, owe child support, etc. By doing this it allows them to exert control over people who have served their time. These registries are bad news.

      --
      Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
    7. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > There will always be a stigma associated to certain types of crimes. Animal abuse is one of them.

      Screw 'stigma', that is outmoded moralist bullshit. The only really important thing to know is how much of a risk the person is to society - even after they've done their time or paid their fine.

      Christ, what's next? A "National Nose-Picker Registry"??

    8. Re:Sounds Good To Me by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Informative

      Maybe, but if so we certainly could also consider adding some of those PETA loonies.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    9. Re:Sounds Good To Me by pclminion · · Score: 1

      If the animals were abused, under the definition of "abuse" propounded by this law (I assume it specifically defines abuse), then why not? This is why I buy my meat from local farmers, and I'm completely aware of how it's raised and slaughtered. Meat's way more expensive this way, but I don't eat that much meat in the first place, and I figure if I can buy some humane treatment for the animals, why not.

    10. Re:Sounds Good To Me by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The question is will it be as easy to get on the animal abuser list for things that have nothing to do with harming animals as it is to get on the sex offender list for things that have nothing to do with a sex offense?

    11. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah..and then when that person realizes you've pulled all the control rods out, he can blow up and take you out with him...along with all the other self righteous assholes like yourself. once the time is served, let him have a clean slate. labels like 'felon' and lists like these only serve to keep those on them from reintegrating into society, thus driving them back to the crmie that got them there in the first place so we can do it to them again. the desire for retribution needs to stop at the point where it prevents re-integration. otherwise it isn't justice, it's vengeance.

    12. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ScrewMaster · · Score: 0

      There will always be a stigma associated to certain types of crimes. Animal abuse is one of them. Long after they serve their far too short sentences they will still get to live with what they've done ... and we'll get to share the knowledge of their past with them.

      On the other hand, when you attempt to elevate animals to having the same status and rights in our society as human beings ... you have a problem. A person who abuses an animal is not on a par with a person who abuses another human, and should not be treated in the same way. You have to think this through a little. Animals are what they are, and the net effect of trying to make lower animals into virtual human beings is to degrade and demean our humanity. We treat corporations as if they were people, and look how well that's worked out for us.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    13. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and we'll get to share the knowledge of their past with them.

      ... says someone who hasn't shown up on a list ... yet.

      We used to be a nation where there was an opportunity for a second chance. No more -- now you're haunted (and hunted) for life by all these forms of permanent, extra-judicial punishment. "I paid my debt to society" is a thing of the past, because the nannies and tsk-tskers among us can't have their punishment-lust satisfied.

      Do you know what happens with the sex offender lists? People have been hunted down and had the shit beaten out of them just for appearing on the list.

      Do you know what it takes to get on the list? Do you understand that some drunk guy can get on because he got drunk, went into an alley and pissed against the wall? Yeah, you merciless son of a bitch -- they nail him for indecent exposure. Right, now he can't get (or loses) any job involving contact with kids or anywhere in a lot of professions.

      Hey, asshole -- I'll indecently expose myself so you can suck me dry.

    14. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Darkness404 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Who cares about animals. Seriously. I'd much rather be alive with some pain then to go to a "shelter" where they kill you. Hm, sounds like one nice shelter, one moment you are enjoying a nice existence in the streets, the next your entire reason for existence is taken away from you (entire life-purpose of animals is to reproduce) and then you are dead. Sounds like some shelter right?

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    15. Re:Sounds Good To Me by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If their punishment is too short, then extend the sentences. If the jails are too crowded, stop sending non-violent people there for the "crime" of ingesting non-state approved substances. Otherwise, stop condemning people to a lifetime of harassment by vigilantes. This goes for sex offenders and for this new animal abuse registry. If none of this persuades you, then perhaps you should consider: a)there are those who are convicted that are innocent (and are exonerated later) b)what makes it onto the registry is determined by politicians and judges, who will add things such as drunk men urinating in public to the sex offender list. Who is to say the same cannot happen for animal abuse?

      --
      SSC
    16. Re:Sounds Good To Me by tecnico.hitos · · Score: 1

      Not if the offense was bestiality, from a conservative point of view, though it's difficult to argue that a male horse or dog was "harmed" by being fellated by a human.

      But what if the animal was penetrated? The harm would not be so easy to dismiss in such a situation.

      --
      The good, the evil and the vacuum tubes.
    17. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christ, what's next?

      The end of the world, better known as Armageddon.

      "Bhwaaaah ha ha ha ha ha erhg"

    18. Re:Sounds Good To Me by mysidia · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I see how it is... you are one of those species-ist human supremists.

      Now go add your name to the registry of animal haters :)

      ...j/k

    19. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you know what it takes to get on the list? Do you understand that some drunk guy can get on because he got drunk, went into an alley and pissed against the wall? Yeah, you merciless son of a bitch -- they nail him for indecent exposure. Right, now he can't get (or loses) any job involving contact with kids or anywhere in a lot of professions.

      The only way to control a nation of free men is to turn them into criminals. And that's exactly what is happening. It's not just punishment-lust (although that is most certainly a factor) it's the desire for power. Our Founders tried to codify limits to that power in the highest law of our land. Unfortunately, zealots and sociopaths (and the two are not mutually-exclusive) are doing an end-run around those limits.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    20. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I see how it is... you are one of those species-ist human supremists.

      Now go add your name to the registry of animal haters :)

      ...j/k

      Okay, right after I finish my quarter-pounder.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    21. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apparently you have not paid any attention on how actual farming is implemented recently.

      It's not quite the land of sunshine that is painted on the tele.

      No, I'm afraid farming today is fairly beyond the concept of humane.

    22. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll still have to live with what they've done, but only if there's a registry? So what you're really saying is that people on the registry should be abused by other members of society (prank calls, graffiti on their car, etc).

      You're really advocating vigilante justice. Please leave the USA and go somewhere else where this shit is encouraged. Seriously, get the fuck out of my country you fucking sack of shit. You are damn lucky to live in a country where justice is actually a priority for EVERYONE rather than a select few. If you have a problem with this then get the fuck out.

    23. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What next? A public "traffic violation registry"? What happens after that?

      No, a public "He didn't go straight home to his wife" list.

      It will be highly amusing to most of the population.

    24. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You really need to stop paying attention to PeTA. Respectable slaughterhouses inflict a minimum of suffering. After all, a suffering animal is more difficult to handle, so it's a better business model to not cause the thousand-pound walking meat sacks to attempt to stampede, or to make the flapping squawking things try to scratch and peck your eyes out.

    25. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      My guess is with the way things are going a "gateway drug" list, after all we know that anyone who has ever smoke, drank or even did pot is now snorting coke right? And if we have an alcohol and cigarette list we will know that our kids aren't being exposed to second hand smoke and we can monitor parties! After all, its not like its a constitutional right to be able to have people to gather peacefully and do what they are legally allowed to do...

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    26. Re:Sounds Good To Me by couchslug · · Score: 0, Troll

      "By doing this it allows them to exert control over people who have served their time. These registries are bad news."

      Not to those of us who want to ensure they never hire or patronize such folk.

      What SHOULD be included is specific case info so viewers can sort bullshit convictions from appropriate punishment.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    27. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mod parent up.

      Exactly. What we really need to do is stop using jails as "time out" and start only keeping violent people there. If the crime was non-violent and they don't pose a threat to society, put them on probation and make them pay restitution. If there was no one harmed to pay restitution to, how was it a crime in the first place? On the same vain, we need to elect our executive branch by allowing for the direct election, supervision and removal of police officers and make every move they make public record so we can end police brutality and abuse.

      What is next? A list of people who bought cigarettes, drinks and porn?

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    28. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      The word "fellated" means oral. Not penetration.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    29. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Al+Dimond · · Score: 1

      I guess the point of the registry would be that pet stores and humane societies would be able to check prospective owners against the list. In that sense we have "traffic violation registries" in that our driving records are kept and used by, for example, insurance companies.

      As with sex offender registries, there is lots of potential for abuse by heavy-handed prosecutors trying to rack up impressive conviction and registry stats. From what I've read about sex offender registries, the concept of these sorts of registries is not mature or well-vetted. Until protections for the accused are strongly built into the system as is the case with the normal criminal justice system I can't in all honesty support registries for anything. And I guess that includes traffic records.

    30. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can't stand PETA in general, but (hypocritical as they are) this is one of their few campaigns I *do* support. The fact is, most unwanted pets are not going to find homes, so it's better to take them in, make an effort to place them, and then humanely euthanize them (which no, is NOT animal abuse) than to abandon them at a trash dump, throw them off a pier, or beat them with a club.

    31. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just to let everyone know, the parent poster (Slashdot#175151) is a known jaywalker. Disregard any attempts he makes at sounding civic-minded. He's a disgrace to society and his mother is ashamed of him. Additionally, a girl thought he was approaching her inappropriately at a party three years ago.

      CAPTCHA is 'chilling'

    32. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dimeglio · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or how about the Ph.d candidate who needs to experiment new medicine on rabbits.

      California is California. I hope they can afford this new registry.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    33. Re:Sounds Good To Me by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Animal abuse and a sex offender are in entirely different leagues

      Right - because cat torturers don't become sex offenders - they go on to kill people.

      Torturing animals is something many murderers did before they "graduated" to killing humans.

    34. Re:Sounds Good To Me by VanGarrett · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have worked with cows and chickens. I grew up on a ranch, worked on a dairy, and occasionally helped out a friend who worked on a chicken ranch. Cattle are not very bright beasts. The calves will drink their mothers' milk until their innards burst, and the adults are content, so long as they know where to find the food. As for chickens... I just cannot feel remorse for any alleged suffering that has been applied to a creature whose behavior does not change, after its head has been removed, leaving only a portion of its brain stem.

      In my experience with these creatures, I have not seen any evidence of sentience. They have no ability to behave outside of instinct, and insofar as I can tell, memory is only established through repetition.

      These animals are not people. They are food.

      Now, I can understand the concept of a "Sex Offenders" registry. Victims of rape or pedophilia experience a lasting and significant impact on their lives, from the events, impacting everything from their feelings of personal security and self-confidence, to even grander things such as sexual orientation (and all of its permutations). The desires that inspired sex offenders to perform the act(s) which got them on the list are generally not the sort of thing that one leaves behind in his life, but rather, something that (s)he must live with, indefinitely. Therefore, keeping a publicly accessible registry of these people is, more or less, a fair thing to do.

      Animal abuse, however, is generally not driven by hormones that are persistent through life, but rather, the adolescent hormone cocktail, or general ignorant belligerence. It's really not the sort of thing that needs a registry, because the behavior can be effectively turned off with minimal effort, or may even go away on its own. Normal punitive measures are generally sufficient. To require people involved in this sort of crime to add their names to a public registry is ridiculous.

    35. Re:Sounds Good To Me by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are no-kill shelters out there. Why not go adopt a dog or cat this weekend, and be part of the solution, instead of complaining about the problem? Dogs especially seem to understand when they've been given an extra lease on life, and they give back a lot more than they take.

    36. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Al+Dimond · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I don't think as as society we're at any risk of putting animals at the same level of humans because we have laws against abusing animals (or certain cute ones at least). Nowhere in banning animal cruelty are animals legally raised to the level of humans. It simply recognizes them as sentient creatures that can be harmed. I think that's fair. Using your example of corporations, even if corporations did not have as many rights as they do, you'd still be punished for property crimes against a corporation as you would for such crimes against a person. Because even corporations with limited power can own property.

      I disagree with a registry because I don't think we should punish people without having a well thought-out set of rights for the accused and convicted, and a set of punishments that fit crimes, as in our criminal justice system generally (to whatever degree that's true). Registries are abused by prosecutors today and there aren't really effective checks against that.

    37. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I would imagine they did it humanely. I have always killed any animal I killed in a humane fashion.

      If they tortured the animal or injured it in a way not necessary then sure.

    38. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Chicken are broccoli with legs.

      I will say pigs are pretty smart though.

    39. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      How so?
      Most modern veal is rose veal, they just let them live with the other cows till the time comes.

    40. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Informative

      Peta volunteers have killed animals in their vans just after pickup, they often make no attempt to rehome animals.

    41. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      That can be done humanly as well. Testing on animals is fine, so long as the normal ethical standards are followed. In cases where the animals pose no further risk to the environment or community they should be attempted to be adopted out at the end of their lab lives though.

      In the case of rabbits, so long as it is safe they could even be slaughtered for meat.

    42. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      People who torture animals often go on to harm humans.

    43. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you batshit nuts?
      Who said anything about making animals people? These fuckers go on to harm people, so keeping a list of them is not a bad idea.

      Also humans are nothing but animals, maybe your sky wizard superstition says otherwise but we are all just mammals. Look around we have folks who murder, who can't keep control of their impulse to eat, screw or anything else. Just like the rest of the animal kingdom.

    44. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What was it about their post that makes you think they weren't aware of that?

      CAPTCHA: thrusts

    45. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chicken are broccoli with legs.

      I will say pigs are pretty smart though.

      No surprise, considering how close are they to humans.
      I mean, they even taste the same as humans... Uh, someone told me.

    46. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Ackmo · · Score: 0

      Vegetable rights and peace!

    47. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The politicos figured out how to shred the Constitution. They simply keep putting activist judges on the Supreme Court so they can "reinterpret" the language to mean what they want it to mean. Now we get things like having land taken away from it's owner and given to a developer so they can build a shopping center. Next up we'll have dogs and cats voting for presidential candidates. Hell, now that I think about it, they couldn't do any worse.

    48. Re:Sounds Good To Me by daveime · · Score: 0, Troll

      You first. The entire American Dream was founded on vigilantism, from Colonial times right up to the present day.

      Try reading up on the Regulator Movement, or the Montana Vigilantes whose last victim was hanged because he expressed an opinion that previous men might be innocent, or the Ranch Rescue in the southwest, who evict illegal aliens. Not to mention KKK and all that.

      Not forgetting of course the per capita gun ownership stats. Guess who's number one on the list with a shocking 90 handguns per 100 residents ?

      You all still believe you're in the Wild Wild West. Sort out your own house first, then you can come back and preach to the rest of us.

    49. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Your entire life purpose is to reproduce as well if you want to look at it that way.

      Sounds like you might want to donate to a no-kill shelter or maybe even adopt an animal, or you could just keep bitching.

    50. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Redlazer · · Score: 1
      The real problem is that attitudes like this are what prevents a good thing like this from happening.

      I think that the animal abuse issue really deserves to be separate from the food industry. While I have extremely mixed views on especially the food issue, home animal abuse is something that deserves real attention, and I think it is the sort of thing the government ought to be in charge of.

      I think, used responsibly, this can be a Good Thing. So long as people who want to do some Other Good Thing don't fuck up our Good Thing, Things could really Improve.

      I think there is a clear line between "Abuse" and "Food". Which side(s) of the moral line they are on, I can only say that I think the "Abuse" line is well within "Immoral" behaviour.

      All that being said... Is a list the right answer? Are stronger penalties the right answer? Or is education the answer?

      --
      Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
    51. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, yeah, only people with something to hide would care whether or not they are on a registry.

    52. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      They sure could have, they might have voted for McCain and that retard palin. You want someone who can't name a fucking periodical a heartbeat away from the red button?

    53. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Raul654 · · Score: 2, Informative

      FWIW, what you're thinking of is called the MacDonald Triad. But to be fair, what the MacDonald triad means is that while many (most?) serial killers exhibited those behaviors, but not all people who exhibit those behaviors go on to become serial killers.

      --


      To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
      --E.C. Stanton
    54. Re:Sounds Good To Me by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not really. The guys who raised and killed dinner are purposefully raising animals to die, often with a life of extreme pain and discomfort in between, and often killed in less than humane ways.

      Killing of unwanted pets is the most humane action you can do, short of trying to house them all personally, since you are sparing them a life of hunger and hardship on the streets. And cats, depending on where you live, can wreak havoc on the local ecosystem.

      Basically, it's a whole other debate. It does not follow logically that the PETA is guilty of cruelty to animals, and instead, must be established separately.

      Also, from your link:

      PETA has a $33 million annual budget. But instead of investing in the lives of the thousands of flesh and blood creatures in its care, the group spends millions on media campaigns telling Americans that eating meat, drinking milk, fishing, hunting, wearing leather shoes, and benefiting from medical research performed on lab rats are all “unethical.”

      The number of pets they kill is drop in the ocean compared to the number of animals raised and killed in inhumane conditions. Perhaps, it's not an attachment to advertising, so much as a focus on a much greater problem?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    55. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Also humans are nothing but animals, maybe your sky wizard superstition says otherwise but we are all just mammals.

      My, aren't we the presumptuous one. As it happens I'm an atheist so you can stick that "sky wizard" shit right up your ass where it belongs. Yes, we are all just animals, but we have to put our own kind first (believe me, your average "lower animal" won't make that distinction. You're just food at best, a potential threat at worst.) My point is that we have a lot of people in this country who aren't capable of making the proper distinction between human beings and animals. Some of them are just militant fruitcakes like PETA ... some are lawmakers.

      And I disagree with your further presumption that a significant number of people who abuse animals in some way automatically go on to harm people. It's that kind of judgmental, factless attitude that has caused a lot of problems with public policy in recent decades. You know, like the unfounded assumption that anyone who smokes pot is an addict that will invariably progress to harder drugs.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    56. Re:Sounds Good To Me by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The logic behind "registries", not that I'm a fan of them, is based on the perceived danger of the offender, and likelihood of re-offending(and, in practice, the degree of public revulsion toward that particular crime), not on the seriousness of the crime per se. If seriousness of crime were the criterion, we would have started with a murderer's registry and worked down from there.

      Now, I think all of these criminal registries are a bad idea. If somebody is so dangerous that they need to be on a special public list and announce themselves to their neighbors, and never live within a thousand yards of pretty much anything, and so forth, why are they out of jail? If they are not, in fact, that dangerous, how can viciously hounding them for petty political gain possibly do anything but increase their chances of re-offending? You don't want a potential criminal drifting from odd job to odd job, living at a mixture of no fixed address and really shitty parts of town. That's just a recipe for them to do something else in the future. You want them enmeshed in all the cares of a solid citizen with a white picket fence and a mortgage as quickly as possible. Plus, of course, there is the well documented stream of absurd cases, 16/18 couples, yobbish but harmless public urinators, that poor bastard who was wandering around inside his own house without the shades drawn. Just not a good idea. The idea that there are people safe enough to release from jail; but so dangerous that they must be stigmatized forever seems absurdly contradictory; and the consequences of that notion are bad for liberty.

      However, that said, I don't think animal abuse cases are any less logical than sex crime cases for the (admittedly bad) idea of a registry. Again, registries are about an individual's dangerousness. This is generally established through some sort of crime, so they end up being based on more or less serious crimes; but the motive is to identify dangerous people(an ordinary criminal record keeps track of crimes). Animal abuse, of the sort that actually makes it to court(which usually implies animal abuse not in the context of some useful production/research activity, or within such a context; but of extraordinary depravity), is not a serious crime compared to sex crimes(since we generally accord animals substantially less moral personhood than we do people, harming them just isn't as serious); but people who harm animals just for giggles are, in fact, generally Bad News. Animals may not experience suffering in any morally salient way; but their pain responses are eminently convincing looking. Anybody who finds those recreational is, indeed, of deeply suspect character(if they also enjoy setting fires, you are in *cough*Macdonald triad*cough* territory).

      If anything, animal abusers are probably better subjects for a registry than sex criminals are. In both cases, the crimes are evidence of serious personality and behavioral issues; but the victims of animal abusers are not as morally salient, so it is harder to justify long custodial sentences. Again, I think registries are a bad plan; but I would argue that, if there were a good place to start, it'd be animal abusers. Because such registries inevitably go skiing right down the slippery slope, they would end up containing the poor bastard at the slaughterhouse who managed to make PETA's shit list, some guy who kicked a puppy in a momentary outburst and has felt terrible and done nothing harmful ever since, and a kid who pulled the wings off a couple of mosquitos after a summer of being bitten; but those results are no more absurd than what you get with the present registries.

      Or, of course, you could just throw out the crude attempt to classify people based on their crimes, and classify based on psychological evaluation. What you really want is a list of sociopaths, whether they be the blue collar flavor who flip out and kill somebody, or the white collar flavor who can keep their inhumanity in check long enough to make it through business school and do some real damage...

    57. Re:Sounds Good To Me by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Informative

      If they didn't violate the trust of people who send animals to them, thinking that it'll be good for the animal... I might agree.

      Don't give an unwanted animal to PETA. Give them to the Humane Society. They'll try. They spend money on actual animals, instead of just obnoxious advertising campaigns and donations to terrorist groups who firebomb research labs and the like.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    58. Re:Sounds Good To Me by The+Wooden+Badger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From what I have seen of sex offender registries (from living in two states) they include some case information. That information is usually ignored from my anecdotal experience. I was told the other day that a neighbor about three houses down the street is on the registry. When I asked why the guy is on the registry, they couldn't give me an answer.

      --
      Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
    59. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      The guys who raised and killed dinner are purposefully raising animals to die, often with a life of extreme pain and discomfort in between, and often killed in less than humane ways.

      As someone who has raised and killed dinner, bullshit. I never abused any animal, I bet a bullet to the brainpan is a swifter end than you will meet.

      The number of pets they kill is drop in the ocean compared to the number of animals raised and killed in inhumane conditions. Perhaps, it's not an attachment to advertising, so much as a focus on a much greater problem?

      Bullshit, it is simple hypocrisy. Their actions speak far louder than their words. Just another bunch of windbags who wanted something to whine about. If they really cared they might try supporting the raising of cruelty free meat animals, or many other things.

    60. Re:Sounds Good To Me by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Smoking pot and using harder drugs should be legal, victimless crime. Nailing a cat to a tree is not. I have raised animals for food and hunted deer, not a single animal have I ever abused.

      Animal abusers are as bad as wife beaters, same cowardly assholes.

    61. Re:Sounds Good To Me by The_Wilschon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or, of course, you could just throw out the crude attempt to classify people based on their crimes, and classify based on psychological evaluation. What you really want is a list of sociopaths, whether they be the blue collar flavor who flip out and kill somebody, or the white collar flavor who can keep their inhumanity in check long enough to make it through business school and do some real damage...

      You should read David Brin's book Sundiver. It is set in a society that has this system. His portrayal of it seems reasonable (although "seems reasonable" and "is correct" are two very different beasts, I know), and is definitely not something I want to live in the middle of. I'd vote against this proposal.

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    62. Re:Sounds Good To Me by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      I bet they also ate meat too... Scary!

    63. Re:Sounds Good To Me by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      People who drink alcohol are involved in drunk driving accidents that kill and harm people... Scary!

    64. Re:Sounds Good To Me by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      As someone who has raised and killed dinner, bullshit. I never abused any animal, I bet a bullet to the brainpan is a swifter end than you will meet.

      Hey! This isn't a personal attack on you. I'm referring to where most American's get their meat-based dinners: from battery farms.

      Bullshit, it is simple hypocrisy.

      Right. I'm sorry I ever came up with an alternative theory. As usual, for reasons unexplained, the groupthink is correct: they are hypocrites, and any reason they could be considered morally bankrupt about them is true, and any questions about the moral bankruptcy of our own lifestyles are completely false and should be blissfully ignored (or countered with thought-stopping cliches).

      If they really cared they might try supporting the raising of cruelty free meat animals, or many other things.

      Perhaps they morally believe that animals shouldn't be raised to be eaten? Oh wait. I'm sorry, I did it again! How free-thinking of me!

      In case you are wondering, no I'm not a member of the PETA. Yes, I do eat meat. No, I'm not involved in any kind of campaign for animals' rights. Yes, cognitive dissonance really does get me this angry, even when the resulting bile is directed to an organisation that I generally disagree with ideologically.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    65. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Key word there is 'most'. Clearly that was not the type of veal he was talking about.

      Damned it is delicious though...

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    66. Re:Sounds Good To Me by The_Wilschon · · Score: 1

      I torture quarks for a living. I'll get my Ph.D. writing about how it sounds when they scream. Does this make me a bad person?

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    67. Re:Sounds Good To Me by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      A public "traffic violation registry"?

      If they do that, I'll be proudly vying for one of the top ten on the list. =D

    68. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      Your argument is that the KKK is the embodiment of the American dram. Yeah, don't think we have anything further to discuss here.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    69. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but if so we certainly could also consider adding some of those PETA loonies.

      That website is out of whack. PETA stands for "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" the keyword being Ethical. That they put to death animals for which they are unable to find caretakers is entirely consistent with their stated objectives.

      Now, if they had discovered that PETA tortured the animals, then that website would have a story worth telling. But they don't have such a story because its just some idiot with a vendetta jousting at strawmen and it shows in the way statements there are worded, such as - "Not counting the pets PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 90 percent of the animals it took in during the last five years." Considering that you can't adopt a regular pet without getting it spayed or neutered the guys running the website choose to ignore all of the regular pets that come into the shelters and are then adopted. No bias at all there.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    70. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently you have not paid any attention on how actual farming is implemented recently.

      It's not quite the land of sunshine that is painted on the tele.

      No, I'm afraid farming today is fairly beyond the concept of humane.

      That's what pisses me off about groups like PETA: sometimes, they're right. There is abuse in farms. A lot. I'm not saying every farm does it, but it happens. When PETA goes out talking about farm cruelty, they might turn some heads, but then they follow that up by stripping naked and saying that eating meat makes you worse than Hitler (but naturally, stuff like this is fine and dandy). And that's where they lose people. People dismiss all their claims.

      At the end of the day, their stupid antics only hurt the animals. Do they talk about sustainable fishing? No, they talk about 'sea-kittens.' Do they talk about humane animal testing? No, they want to end all testing (except for PETA VP Mary Beth Sweetland's insulin) in favor of non-existent models and cripple medical science. Do they advocate decent living conditions for farm animals? No, say farm animals completely equivalent to Jews during the Holocaust.

      They're not about what's best for the animals, they're on a feel good quest for attention. Well, screw them.

    71. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, and Blacklisting those who are not equal.

    72. Re:Sounds Good To Me by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Actually intelligence doesn't matter... it's "appearance of intelligence" that matters, because from the very beginning, the basis for penalizing animal abuse is an emotional/moral one, not a logical one.

      Some people who see an animal experience pain tend to identify with, "empathize" with it, and commit anthropomorphic fallacies. Such is human nature.

    73. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      What about the person that mechanically harvests crops? Those kill animals too. There's plenty of other ways that we each contribute to killing an animal somehow, somewhere. Taking it to the logical conclusion via guilt by proxy, everyone deserves a spot on this registry.

    74. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have a public traffic violation registry, in the form of driver's licenses. Performing a background check, at a cost of around $25, will allow you to access much more information than just how many speeding tickets your neighbors has...

    75. Re:Sounds Good To Me by cmdr_tofu · · Score: 1

      The person (actually people) that raised and killed my dinner were growing broccoli and soybeans and peanuts.

    76. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Nazlfrag · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People who jump to conclusions based on heresay often go on to harm humans.

    77. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Aranykai · · Score: 1

      Even more scary is they all breathed air!

      --
      If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    78. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Aardpig · · Score: 0, Troll

      Spoken like a true sheepfucker.

      --
      Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
    79. Re:Sounds Good To Me by BlueParrot · · Score: 1

      In my experience with these creatures, I have not seen any evidence of sentience. They have no ability to behave outside of instinct, and insofar as I can tell, memory is only established through repetition.

      I realize that it is not an infallible source, but here's a quote off wikipedia:

      Specialists currently believe that all vertebrates can feel pain, and that certain invertebrates, like the octopus, might too.

      Or simply put, everything with a spine can feel pain.

      With regards to the behavior of calves, if drinking excessive amounts of milk do not cause them pain then that behavior is no more strange than the fact that a great deal of humans will ingest various recreational drugs, knowing full and well that it will hurt their health. That an infant animal does not display a great deal of intelligence does not justify hurting them unnecessarily, and lets be clear about one thing: Consumption of food produced from animals is by no means necessary. In fact, given what the average diet is like, ceasing consumption of meat is probably quite a healthy thing to do for most residents of industrialized nations.

    80. Re:Sounds Good To Me by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Testing on animals is fine, so long as the normal ethical standards are followed.

      Oh, I agree. I would only point out that you, sir or madam, are an animal. :)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    81. Re:Sounds Good To Me by bhagwad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In my experience with these creatures, I have not seen any evidence of sentience. They have no ability to behave outside of instinct, and insofar as I can tell, memory is only established through repetition.

      You do realize that at one time people used to say the same thing about their black slaves right? The white man used to feel that the ignorant savages were "less human" than they were - that they didn't feel pain, and that their response to their family members dying was merely a reflexive reaction!

      Descartes was of the opinion that dogs didn't have sentience either and that their screams of pain were merely a reflex action. Read it up.

      Human history is full of examples of people trying to justify their actions by claiming vehemently that others can't feel pain the way they do. You're just doing the same thing they did. In your quest to continue doing what you're doing, you're rationalizing your way out of feeling guilty.

      Chickens have a central nervous system that makes them capable of feeling pain. It's simple - if they try and run away when you try and hurt them, they're capable of suffering and they value their life as much as you do yours. End of story.

      I'm so confident of what I'm saying, that I challenge you to provide me just one piece of scientific evidence which shows that chickens or similar animals feel less pain than we do.

      It's not a question of how intelligent they are or how much memory they have. There is just one relevant question here - can they suffer? If they can, then torturing a chicken is as bad as torturing a baby human.

      Let me also clarify. I don't value life. I kill mosquitoes all the time and for me, killing a human and killing a mosquito is the same. So under the right circumstances, I would have no problems in snuffing out the life of a baby human either. But I wouldn't torture them. I don't torture mosquitoes either. I just smash them with my hand.

      Killing is ok. Torture is not.

    82. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You do realize that at one time people used to say the same thing about their black slaves right?

      Yes, and they were wrong and assholes. But this argument holds similar weight to "you do know that Hitler was a vegetarian, right?". It's a sort of guilt-by-association.

      I think ultimately we have a clash of value systems here.

      It's not a question of how intelligent they are or how much memory they have.

      This is simply not true for me.

      There is just one relevant question here - can they suffer?

      It is a relevant question. It is not the only one.

      If they can, then torturing a chicken is as bad as torturing a baby human.

      This does not follow, even if I agreed with your previous assertions.

      and for me, killing a human and killing a mosquito is the same

      I do not share this opinion.

      I, and many others, value sentience, and this is why murder seems wrong to me. I'd kill an insect that merely annoyed me without actually harming me. I would not kill a human baby that annoyed me. And human babies can sometimes be VERY annoying, far moreso than houseflys. I think if you really examined it, you'd find that you, too, do not set the same standards for killing of different creatures, and I'm not sure how that could be reconciled with the view that a mosquito life = a human life.

    83. Re:Sounds Good To Me by f3r · · Score: 1

      In my experience with these creatures, I have not seen any evidence of sentience. They have no ability to behave outside of instinct, and insofar as I can tell, memory is only established through repetition.

      I know a percentage of the population in my country can be classified according to that. Furthermore, ALL countries behave like that (macropsychology). Have you ever seen a human behaving outside of instinct? I very much doubt you can give me any example of that. I bet on it.

      Now, seriously, it's a matter of sensitivity for other being's suffering. Yours doesn't reach the level where you imagine the suffering of cows/chicken. It's not something debatable, it's something you either are able to feel or not. I'm sorry for people like you.

    84. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      I have worked with spics and niggers. I grew up on a plantation, worked at a KFC, and occasionally helped out a friend who worked at a McDonalds. Niggers are not very bright beasts. The niglets will drink their mothers' milk until their innards burst, and the adults are content, so long as they know where to find the food. As for spics... I just cannot feel remorse for any alleged suffering that has been applied to a creature whose behavior does not change, after its head has been removed, leaving only a portion of its brain stem.

      In my experience with these creatures, I have not seen any evidence of sentience. They have no ability to behave outside of instinct, and insofar as I can tell, memory is only established through repetition.

      These animals are not people. They are food.

      Now, I can understand the concept of a "Sex Offenders" registry. Victims of rape or pedophilia experience a lasting and significant impact on their lives, from the events, impacting everything from their feelings of personal security and self-confidence, to even grander things such as sexual orientation (and all of its permutations). The desires that inspired sex offenders to perform the act(s) which got them on the list are generally not the sort of thing that one leaves behind in his life, but rather, something that (s)he must live with, indefinitely. Therefore, keeping a publicly accessible registry of these people is, more or less, a fair thing to do.

      Slave abuse, however, is generally not driven by hormones that are persistent through life, but rather, the adolescent hormone cocktail, or general ignorant belligerence. It's really not the sort of thing that needs a registry, because the behavior can be effectively turned off with minimal effort, or may even go away on its own. Normal punitive measures are generally sufficient. To require people involved in this sort of crime to add their names to a public registry is ridiculous.

    85. Re:Sounds Good To Me by f3r · · Score: 1

      Some people who see an animal experience pain tend to identify with, "empathize" with it, and commit anthropomorphic fallacies.

      Substitute "animal" by "negro" in your sentence and much enlightenment will come to you (hopefully, otherwise go for easier mental goals).

      While it is not logical to empathize with other beings (why should I suffer because of others?) it is "human" to do so. You can check the definition of psycopathy, for example.

    86. Re:Sounds Good To Me by mysidia · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of logical reasons for non-negros and negros to be afforded the same rights and protections as all individuals. There is no logical basis for distinguishing there. There is a logical basis for treating non-sentient non-self-aware animal species differently however: their usefulness as a food source, that they are weak and easily eaten, humans evolved to eat them. Playing with your food before eating is typical, a creative outlet, and convenient way of getting exercise and relieving stress (give a cat a mouse some time, and see how much fun the cat has).

      it is "human" to do so.

      Some humans abuse, eat, or abuse/do other things to animals we subjectively assess to be cruel/mean, so obviously it is human to do so.

    87. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd like to have a registry listing people in favor of registries. So I can avoid dealing with the fascist fucks.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    88. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      . That they put to death animals for which they are unable to find caretakers is entirely consistent with their stated objectives.

      Wouldn't setting those animals free be the ethical choice here. Where do they get the idea that an animal needs a "caretaker". They can take care of themselves. Of course, those feral dogs and cats are so... untidy. Really ruins the neighborhood. So, the "ethical" way is of course to kill them. Wouldn't want our property values to suffer from the packs of feral dogs roaming around, no Sir. We have "Ethics" after all.

      Hypocrites. Kill as many animals as you want, I do not care. But don't use the "ethical" tag unless you know what it means.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    89. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Peta volunteers have killed animals in their vans just after pickup, they often make no attempt to rehome animals.

      Citations that show your claims are systemic or go away.
      All large organizations have individuals who go off script - what matters is if appropriate action is taken to stop those individuals.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    90. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Serious question...

      Why exactly do we want to KEEP the violent people at all?

      Seems like a giant waste of resources.

    91. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't setting those animals free be the ethical choice here.

      No. First of all, animals raised in human company are pretty much permanently stuck in a juvenile state. They have not been taught to fend for themselves and the urban and suburban environments aren't the same thing as "the wild" - available resources are far more restricted. Don't think that because your cat occasional brings a bird to the stoop that it could live a healthy life without any human support. It is certainly not humane to release an animal only to have it starve or be maimed by a car. For another thing feral animals are a lot more than "untidy" - they can be a significant danger to people - I can personally attest to that having been bitten by a feral dog at the age of 6. Only a fool would think that being ethical requires the risking of human lives in favor of animal lives.

      don't use the "ethical" tag unless you know what it means.

      Right back at you.

      Ask any vet - you know the people who based their entire career on a love of animals, euthanasia of unwanted pets is almost always the most humane choice available.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    92. Re:Sounds Good To Me by makomk · · Score: 1

      If somebody is so dangerous that they need to be on a special public list and announce themselves to their neighbors, and never live within a thousand yards of pretty much anything, and so forth, why are they out of jail?

      Because it's unconstitutional to retroactively change the sentencing for a crime, just for a start...

    93. Re:Sounds Good To Me by toriver · · Score: 1

      Given California's dire public economy (partly due to "democracy" where clueless people make decisions in referendums with no thought of consequences), I am surprised they do not have a public "tax dodger" registry already.

    94. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are a flaming little faggot

    95. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fucking crackpots!

      What if doctors put you "to sleep" when they found you had cancer because you might suffer instead of treating you and giving you 5 more years? Or just because you were fired? Or because you broke your leg.

      What if they spayed/neutered all orphan kids? Or in some countries all kids except for a tiny subset.

      Pet "lovers" are the ones actually torturing their "friends".

      I have kept animals but I give them the chance to procreate(the most fit specimens like in nature) and let them die naturally(either from age or eaten by me) I do the same to plants and all other living organisms that help me such as the yeast I make my beer with.

      Some individuals die, some do so painfully, but such is the way of nature.

    96. Re:Sounds Good To Me by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Now, I can understand the concept of a "Sex Offenders" registry. Victims of rape or pedophilia[..]

      My objection to the statement is that "sex offender" is a term much broader than "rapist". They are popularly equated but a "sex offense" can mean urinating in public. People only hear "sex offender" and think they're dealing with a rapist even if the crime that caused the label is completely harmless.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    97. Re:Sounds Good To Me by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course the same feelings can apply to robots (I recall a story about a minefield clearing robot that worked by using loads of legs and triggering mines with them, losing a leg for each mine, after seeing the robot crawl around and lose legs with every explosion the officer in charge of the test ordered it stopped because he felt empathy for the machine).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    98. Re:Sounds Good To Me by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      I have worked with cows and chickens. I grew up on a ranch, worked on a dairy, and occasionally helped out a friend who worked on a chicken ranch.

      I've stayed on a croft (small farm) with sheep, chickens, etc., and I find you to be full of the sort of hand-waving nonsense of someone with suppressed guilt. Now, on to the arguments :-).

      Cattle are not very bright beasts. The calves will drink their mothers' milk until their innards burst

      Humans are not very bright beasts. They will eat until they become so obese their hearts give up. Also, have you seen baby humanlings? You have to take care of them for almost a whole decade before they are able to do things on their own!

      As for chickens... I just cannot feel remorse for any alleged suffering that has been applied to a creature whose behavior does not change, after its head has been removed, leaving only a portion of its brain stem.

      That couldn't be more irrational. A lot of your behaviour won't change if you remove portions of your body, including portions of your brain. The fact that the body is a distributed multitasking system, and that the distribution occurs differently in different species, is no justification for anything. For example, a cat "without a brain" (the "spinal cat" lab preparation) can walk, showing that walking is an autonomous act in a way that it isn't with humans. Cats are also far more agile than humans. You might say they have a discrete balance CPU. This is an advantage.

      In my experience with these creatures, I have not seen any evidence of sentience.

      Really? Did you ever keep chickens inside your house? Did you spend time treating various chickens as you might a pet? Did you do anything at all even approaching scientific to come to this conclusion? To me, it is evident that different chickens have different characters, respond differently to different people/animals, are content with warmth and protection, run away from danger, squawk like shit at what we would find painful, etc. They respond to pain and pleasure as men do, which means they are sentient.

      Whether you "should" care about whether your mother, your neighbour, the negro in Africa or the chicken on a farm are experiencing pain is not a question which can be answered by science alone. As Bentham said of blacks and chickens, "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but, 'Can they suffer?'"

      They have no ability to behave outside of instinct,

      Humans have little ability to behave outside of instinct. The detail can change, but they're all driven by the desire to seek pleasure and avoid pain. Pleasure is created in the most part by fulfilling the same roles as any other beast: survive; reproduce.

      and insofar as I can tell, memory is only established through repetition.

      Insofar as I can tell, rehearsal is the best way for humans to memorise. What is your point?

      Now, I can understand the concept of a "Sex Offenders" registry. Victims of rape or pedophilia experience a lasting and significant impact on...

      A human /and/ an animal psychologist on /., and his conclusion is: justice is best served by the mob. Why is Joe SexOffender less likely to rape my kid just because I know he's living in the next block? What evidence do you have that Jane AnimalAbuser is fueled by "the adolescent human cocktail" (what?), rather than psychopathy? I guess, since there's no "murder registry", it's better to kill the victim so there's no evidence of sexual abuse. Also has the advantage that any pictures taken/distributed can be argued to be of only a fairly naughty murder, rather than the completely horrific CP.

    99. Re:Sounds Good To Me by DaveGod · · Score: 1

      People who smoke, drink or use porn are their own problem (if any), make their own choices and have options for dealing with it.

      With abused animals and children, their problem is someone else, they have no choices and no options for dealing with it.

      The way we actually protect things runs more in line with what we like most. Like we care more about a capable 11 year old than, say, an invalid 85 year old. Go visit the children's ward then check out the elderly ward, visit daycare then an old-people's home.

      (This is not a comment in favour or against the particular method in the OP).

    100. Re:Sounds Good To Me by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM

      It could be worse... >.> (yes, I'm aware that's actually a comedy)

    101. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Killing of unwanted pets is the most humane action you can do, short of trying to house them all personally, since you are sparing them a life of hunger and hardship on the streets. And cats, depending on where you live, can wreak havoc on the local ecosystem.

      What paternalistic bullcrap. You telling me that death is better than the natural hardship ALL animals have to experience anyway unless they are given a loving home by humans? To invoke Godwin, Newkirk (insanely rich CEO of PETA) is the Hitler of animals: she wants them to all live as she considers correct, and otherwise to die.

      Hey, it looks like mother is suffering a little from arthritis in her old age: it would be far more humane for me to shoot her now.

      FWIW, our latest kitty lived stray for almost half a decade before he adopted us. The environment here might not be as harsh as in some places in America, but it appears that he used his intelligence and instinct to abandon a home in which he was bullied by other cats and maintain himself quite excellently to the age of 13, at which time we started to get to know each other. Living "on the streets" is what animals have been doing for millions of years!

      If you want to deal with an urban animal problem, neuter and neuter and neuter some more. It stops increasing the problem, and stops other animals moving in. As for cats "wreaking havoc", this allegation deserves myth status: the havoc (adaptation) already occurred when the humans moved in and created the town, and a few cats stealing scraps, mice and small birds has a negligible impact.

    102. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You arrive at an accident, who do you check on first the humans in the car or the boar outside?
      A life is a life, sure, but you won't kill a baby for screaming in a restaurant, but yet you kill the mosquitoes.

      So is the reason you kill annoying bugs but not kids merely because you don't want to go to jail?

    103. Re:Sounds Good To Me by inthealpine · · Score: 1

      Obama, Biden and McCain the founding fathers would find so similarly perverting the federal governments role they would wonder why we haven't removed them for violating the constitution. So no, they would not vote for McCain. Palin they would see as ideologically a step better then the rest, but unqualified. Hell, Obama is the least qualified of all four of them. You should probably read about the founding fathers and what they stood for.

      --
      "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash"
    104. Re:Sounds Good To Me by inthealpine · · Score: 1

      So a few small groups of people acting poorly on a local level many many years after the founding of the country was the foundation of the American Dream? I didn't know they even had Deloreans back then.

      Oh, and whats your point about gun ownership statistics? The only place it's not safe is where lawful citizens are forbidden to defend themselves. That has been proven so many times over I can't even believe you brought it up.

      --
      "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash"
    105. Re:Sounds Good To Me by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      You telling me that death is better than the natural hardship ALL animals have to experience anyway unless they are given a loving home by humans?

      No. Nope. Completely incorrect.

      What I'm saying is that releasing an animal into a hostile environment that they are not equipped to deal with is cruel. For example, placing a rooster in a small ring knowing full well that there's another rooster waiting to tear it limb from limb, and that there's nowhere to hide, is cruel. As another example, releasing an animal, whose never had to fend for itself, into the city, where food is scarce and fast cars are plentiful, is cruel. More cruel than putting them down.

      It's certainly not what wild animal have to deal with, since wild animals are usually born and taught to fend for themselves, in the habitat that they are suited to.

      If you want to deal with an urban animal problem, neuter and neuter and neuter some more. It stops increasing the problem, and stops other animals moving in.

      (So now you're talking about the city...)

      Perhaps so, but I still think it's unjust to neuter people who buy a pet and then callously reject it. [/being intentionally dense]

      You're right though, neutering helps, but it doesn't completely solve the problem.

      As for cats "wreaking havoc", this allegation deserves myth status: the havoc (adaptation) already occurred when the humans moved in and created the town, and a few cats stealing scraps, mice and small birds has a negligible impact.

      Which is why I say "depending where you live". I happen to know that in central Australia, wild cats are an extremely big problem for the ecosystem there. They eat just about anything, they have no natural predators, and catching them is extremely difficult. They can recognise traps and bait!

      Naturally in the city, they're nothing more than an annoyance.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    106. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The founding fathers would first and foremost question us, why those damn niggers now can freely walk the street.

    107. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      killing a human and killing a mosquito is the same

      You belong on some kind of list. I forsee mass murder in your future... under the right circumstances.

    108. Re:Sounds Good To Me by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      In my experience with [cows and chickens], I have not seen any evidence of sentience.

      Any creature that engages in what could only be described as "play" has, IMHO, some level of sentience. Calves, at least, play.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    109. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      So under the right circumstances, I would have no problems in snuffing out the life of a baby human either. Doing harm is only justified when it is done to prevent a greater harm. I have no problem with killing humans in order to prevent them from killing other humans, but I really can't conceive of any circumstance wherein killing healthy baby prevents a greater harm (encephalitic infants are a different matter). Killing mosquitoes is only justified because you assign a greater value the harm caused by them biting people to the harm you cause them by crushing them. This is a valid, though by no means universal, value judgment.

      Likewise, I have no problem with harming animals to provide food for my family, or even to modify their behavior. Doing harm to animals that doesn't promote a greater good is evil. This isn't just idle talk; my sister is a veterinarian. She loves horses, but is not allowed to work on equines because she refused to do unnecessary harm to a donkey as part of her schooling. In other words, she placed a greater value on animals not suffering unnecessarily than on the advancement of her own career. This also causes problems at work, since vets that are in it for the money have a difficult time relating to her.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    110. Re:Sounds Good To Me by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I think almost everything alive can feel pain. Whether they have the capacity to tell us is a different matter.

      If you are experiencing "locked in syndrome", you're not more capable than an amoeba. If I poke you you might feel pain, but what can you do about it? Nothing. At least the amoeba can move away.

      As for eating animals, there's plenty of scientific evidence that consuming oceanic fish (nonmercury laden) is good for most humans (all that omega 3 stuff). And consuming red meat is generally not. There are always exceptions of course. So while humans can survive on a pure vegetarian diet, it's hard for them to thrive on it. They are less likely to do as well as those who eat fish.

      Unfortunately most vegetarian sources of Omega 3 oils don't provide the long chained ones (DHA, EPA), they provide ALA and:

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9637947

      "More specifically, most studies in humans have shown that whereas a certain, though restricted, conversion of high doses of ALA to EPA occurs, conversion to DHA is severely restricted."

      --
    111. Re:Sounds Good To Me by inthealpine · · Score: 1

      I know historical fact is really inconvenient, but some of the founding fathers were or became the biggest abolitionists, like Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson (read Notes On The State of Virginia), John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Paine and of course even George Washington. "to see some plan adopted, by which slavery in this country may be abolished by slow, sure, and imperceptible degrees." http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/george-washington-quotes-10.html

      Blacks and Whites worked and lived side by side as indentured servants. This was very early on of course and the attitude changed to full ownership rather than an indentured servant.
      You have to remember that at this time in the western world was for the first time seeing that slavery was becoming questioned; before this time slavery was broad and common place in just about every culture West and East.

      So before you spout of more useless, hateful, ignorant drivel; you should put down your TV remote, stop listening to your state approved school propagandist and read something that contains 51% 1st source material(that means read what the founders actually said and did).

      --
      "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash"
    112. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      STACK OVERFLOW ERROR

    113. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remind me to keep you away from my children.

    114. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Fucking crackpots!

      Right back at you - your crazy is off the charts, way beyond even the most extreme peta member.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    115. Re:Sounds Good To Me by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Mind if I add this to my file of well written arguments for future quoting when people propose these kinds of things?

      Is an attribution of
      -fuzzyfuzzyfungus(Slashdot)
      ok?

      I don't like to just grab people's arguments and use them wholesale without attribution.

    116. Re:Sounds Good To Me by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      I'd love to find the source for this.
      It sounds fascinating.

    117. Re:Sounds Good To Me by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Those examples are not of _convictions_ by a court of law.

      Precisely why shouldn't PUBLIC information, be conveniently PUBLIC?

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    118. Re:Sounds Good To Me by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Oh, I think that that kind of registry would be a bad idea as well, for basically the same reasons that I oppose the other types of registries. I would just argue that such a system would be the most logical implementation of the registry concept. Since I think that the concept is fundamentally flawed, being the most logical implementation of it is not really much of an endorsement; but I do think that, if one were going to make the mistake of implementing a registry, that would be the best of the resulting bad options.

    119. Re:Sounds Good To Me by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "The only really important thing to know is how much of a risk the person is to society "

      One way to minimize that risk is to give other humans the tools to choose if they will embrace or reject the folks on the list. You are perfectly free to hire, rent to, and otherwise seek economic and physical closeness with whoever you wish, criminal record or not.

      Why should I not be free to know the _criminal_conviction_ history of those I have dealings with and decide for myself?

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    120. Re:Sounds Good To Me by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      True. However, creating a sex offender registry ( would hope) would also not apply retroactively, since it definitely amounts, in point of fact, to a change in sentence for a particular crime(though I can easily imagine that that would be the sort of situation where a court would bow to popular opinion and let weasel wording carry the day).

      Since retroactive changes are unconstitutional in any case, my argument is just that, if you believe that a given crime or class of crime indicates such an extreme danger of re-offending, you should pass a law changing the punishment for that crime to "Life in prison, with possibility for parole after X years for those deemed unlikely to reoffend"; rather than passing a law changing the punishment to "X years in jail, plus enrollment for life on an a highly restrictive and stigmatizing registry, with no ability whatsoever to demonstrate non-dangerousness in the future".

      Neither change in law would be constitutional to apply retroactively, both would only apply going forward; but I think that the latter is far worse than either the former, or the old "X years in jail" standard.

    121. Re:Sounds Good To Me by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      You are welcome to do so, if you wish and that form of attribution is fine. That is the pseudonym I operate under here.

      If you feel like making it easy to look up the actual post, you'll probably want to store the http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1573282&cid=31378548 link as well; but that is a matter of your and your audience's convenience, and is purely at your option.

    122. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I'm glad somebody brought that up. I'd much rather have an animal abuser registry than a sex offender registry for precisely this reason, though both of them are pretty bad ideas.

      Animal abuse tends to be fairly narrowly defined to include the sorts of cruelty indicative of serious psychological problems on the part of the abuser. These folks have a significantly higher risk of harming people later in life according to numerous studies.

      By contrast, there are teenagers on the sex offender registry for having sex with their 17-year-old girlfriends. The sex offender registries are sufficiently over-broad and diluted so as to make them nearly useless in practice. They stigmatize people who should not be stigmatized, and the result is that may people who otherwise would not commit a crime are forced into very limited lives that make them far more likely to commit crimes in the future.

      That said, being a convicted criminal makes someone's life harder. People won't hire them, and they are marginalized by society. The result is predictable. They get desperate and do whatever it takes to survive, which usually involves committing another crime. The absolute last thing we should be doing is making it even harder for them to reestablish their lives, but that's precisely what these registries do. These registries are essentially like being on parole for life.

      If a crime is committed and the person is believed to be likely to commit that crime again, they should not be released. If they are believed unlikely to commit that crime again, then there's no benefit to having them the registry. Either way, the registries are just a Band-Aid for a broken system of justice that is inept at judging the risk of recidivism. We need to fix the real problem, not patch around it with hack on top of hack that each create ten problems for every one problem that they solve.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    123. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be so fucking stupid, jump off a bridge you hippy shit.

    124. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Informative

      No. First of all, animals raised in human company are pretty much permanently stuck in a juvenile state. They have not been taught to fend for themselves and the urban and suburban environments aren't the same thing as "the wild" - available resources are far more restricted. Don't think that because your cat occasional brings a bird to the stoop that it could live a healthy life without any human support.

      I think we should do an experiment. Release pets into the wild and see what happens.

      Nature always finds a way.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    125. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Oops. Misformatted the link for "and".

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    126. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Man, you clearly haven't thought this through very well.

      Your first two links are a case of an imported species overwhelming the native species, same with the last link -- "These fish outcompete native fish for food, and they consume the various species that keep our endangered coral reefs clean." - that isn't even remotely ethical.

      That example of the ferrets and the rest of your links either reinforce ("most escaped or abandoned ferrets either are re-caught or will die from dehydration if there is not a water supply available, or starvation if they can't find food right away." -- "The feral cats I encountered at feeding stations at Kapiolani Community College and Ala Moana Park, also in Honolulu, looked sick and sad") or don't even address the fact that just because some animals survive doesn't mean all of them will, nor that they will even thrive - the feral cats continuing to be dependent on humans.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    127. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Those numbers look really bad, but that whole "excludes spay or neuter" thing in their statistics should be telling. Most shelters will spay or neuter animals before they are adopted. The shockingly small number reported may just represent animals who the organization felt that, due to medical reasons, spay/neuter was not an appropriate option. PETA does annoy me, but not as much as people who lie with statistics.

      Ugh... never mind. According to the referenced data the "spay or neuter" is animals that were brought into PETA for spay/neuter by the owners (which is reportedly subsidized by PETA, and for this I will give appropriate kudos.) Furthermore, it would appear that the "transferred to other organizations" statistic primarily refers to stray animals turned in to the PETA office, and subsequently turned over to the organization with the appropriate impound contract.

      I do know that finding placement for animals in some places in the southern US can be quite difficult, but the nearby Norfolk Animal Care Center, which is open admission (meaning that, unlike the referenced PETA office, does not turn away animals) has a higher adoption rate. And the Norfolk Animal Care Center does not have the phrase

      "we don't believe in killing animals is an acceptable means of population control"

      boldly plastered on their website. I definitely believe that flat out hypocrisy and lying is indeed much worse than the (unfounded) claim I leveled earlier against the "PETA Kills Animals" organization. If the organization believes that euthanasia is the best outcome for these animals, I understand that more than 99.9% of people do. However, turning around and screaming phrases like "meat is murder" and, well, plastering "we don't believe in killing animals is an acceptable means of population control" on their website while having such an abysmal adoption rate as them is simply unacceptable.

    128. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Nesman64 · · Score: 1

      Do we get to add the person that raised and killed your dinner on that list?

      No, because my dinner lost out in "Survival of the Cutest." Fluffy gets to sit on my lap while Bessie gets grilled and Clucky is fried with a secret blend of herbs and spices.

      --
      coffee | nose > keyboard
    129. Re:Sounds Good To Me by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      I forsee mass murder in your future... under the right circumstances

      Or a sniper as it requires zero hesitation.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    130. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Yes, animals die if they can't find food or water. That's a pretty big duh. Whether pets can survive in the wild or not depends in large part on the location. My point was that escaped pets can and do survive in the wild all the time. Heck, the entire reason we have feral house cats in the wild at all is that some of them got out at one time.

      Regarding the feral cats in Hawaii being hungry, that is in large part due to it being an island, cut off from the rest of the world, with limited space and resources. Although they merely survive in such an inhospitable environment, they can (and do) thrive in Tennessee on farms where there is a plentiful population of mice, moles, birds, insects, etc. for them to feed on and nearly unlimited space for them to spread out, thus not having to compete for a highly limited food supply. There's simply no good reason to euthanize cats unless they are severely injured or diseased. There are tens of thousands of farms out there, and I doubt you'd find even one that would refuse an extra mouser.

      The question was not whether it's ethical to release animals out into the wild. That's a much more complex question involving the impact on the population of other animals, and there's really not an easy answer to that question, as it depends highly on the specifics---the animal, the location, the local flora and fauna, etc. The questions were whether it is humane for those animals, and whether they are so dependent on humans that they can't survive on their own. Clearly the answers to those questions are "yes" and "no", respectively.

      ...don't even address the fact that just because some animals survive doesn't mean all of them will, nor that they will even thrive...

      Not all wild animals survive in the wild, either. Do pets have worse odds of surviving than animals that grew up in the wild? Sure. That said, if I were given the choice of being tossed out in the wilderness with only a 20% chance of surviving or being shot and killed, you'd better believe I'd take my changes with the woods. I find it rather hard to believe that anyone rational would choose otherwise for themselves. How is it, then, that animals with any sense of self should be treated differently?

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    131. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Yes, animals die if they can't find food or water.

      For the purposes of discussing whether or not euthanasia or release to the wild is ethical, that's all that matters.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    132. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dindi · · Score: 1

      I was about to ask that.

      However I am a vegan you insensitive clod, so whoever killed my carrot, tofu and cooked my noodles ... well should live this time

    133. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dindi · · Score: 1

      "These animals are not people. They are food."

      If you think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying this, you do not even deserve an explanation about how this planet is doomed because of ignorance like this.

    134. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Lord_Breetai · · Score: 1

      People who jump to conclusions based on heresay often go on to harm humans.
      My thoughts exactly.

      --
      "You are only young once, but you can be immature forever." -www.animemusicvideos.org
    135. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're dodging the issue, though. They are not unable to find food and water because of their domestication. They are unable to find it because it is not there to be found. The links I provided make it obvious that a certain percentage survive even in relatively harsh environments where they were never meant to live on their own. Nobody is suggesting releasing animals in such environments. There are plenty of places where food and water are plentiful. Release them in the woods near a continuous stream out in the country and most cats should do fine---probably most dogs, too, with the exception of the tiny ones....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    136. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You're dodging the issue, though.

      No, you are. You want to laser in on one point out of many in a larger argument and you've only been able to partially dispute that single point anyway. You are claiming that because SOME survive that domestication plays NO part in the deaths of others. That's a leap of logic you have not provided any substantive support for.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    137. Re:Sounds Good To Me by fly1ngtux · · Score: 1

      These animals are not people. They are food.

      This guy should be sentenced to live with cannibals. Then he will have an idea about how/what 'food' feels.

    138. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Animals may not experience suffering in any morally salient way; but their pain responses are eminently convincing looking. Anybody who finds those recreational is, indeed, of deeply suspect character

      I remember when shoving firecrackers up a frog's butt was considered normal for teenage boys.

    139. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I never said domestication doesn't make their chances worse. I said that it doesn't make their chances zero, and probably doesn't even come close.

      Tell you what. I'm guessing you're pretty domesticated. Centuries of not hunting makes you unprepared to live in the wild. What would you if I gave you a similar choice? Somebody can euthanize you or we can turn you loose in a forest and you can learn to kill things with sticks and hunt roots and berries. Your choice. Somehow, I don't expect you to choose the first choice. I can't imagine that pets would, either.

      It's irrelevant whether domestication contributes to some of the deaths. A lot of factors that aren't an animal's choice affect their survival, from weather-induced changes in food supply or snowfall making brown-furred animals more visible to airborne predators to injured wings, broken legs, etc. It makes no sense to suggest that if an animal would be disadvantaged in the wild, it is better for that animal to be put down than to allow it to have a chance at surviving. Animals are randomly disadvantaged in the wild all the time and we don't intervene and kill all of them. What matters is not whether an animal is disadvantaged, but rather how much it is disadvantaged.

      What percentage of pets would be able to survive in the wild? Is it 30%? Is it 80%? Is it 3%? At 3%, most people would suggest that euthanizing them is more humane. At 80%, most people would suggest turning them loose. At 30%, there's a lot of room for debate. I'd expect it to be a lot closer to 80% than to 3%, but there's only one way to find out for certain: turn loose a whole s**tload of unwanted pets with tracking collars and see what happens. Short of doing that, we're really just guessing here.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    140. Re:Sounds Good To Me by shnull · · Score: 1

      i'll be damned, the first to shake off homo-centrism are the hippies ??? o ... no, wait, they just started in Cali. anyways, very nice to see something good for a change !!!

      --
      beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
    141. Re:Sounds Good To Me by fafalone · · Score: 1

      Probation is not a good solution. For some very high percentage, they either violate for failing a drug test and serve a few years, or god forbid get a new charge (that's also from a consensual [trans]action), then serve 5-10 years. Probation is just a stop on the way to jail for drug users.
      If there's no victim, there should be no crime. End of story. No probation, no fine, no citation, nothing. If these people do something else, like rob a house, hurt someone directly, then by all means throw them in jail. But just reducing the penalty is not a solution.
      Also, your solution depends on the majority of voters believing that these 'criminals' aren't just getting what they deserve. This does not seem to be true.

    142. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I said that it doesn't make their chances zero

      And I never claimed that it does, so quit it with the strawmen already.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    143. Re:Sounds Good To Me by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      First of all, animals raised in human company are pretty much permanently stuck in a juvenile state. They have not been taught to fend for themselves and the urban and suburban environments aren't the same thing as "the wild" - available resources are far more restricted. Don't think that because your cat occasional brings a bird to the stoop that it could live a healthy life without any human support. It is certainly not humane to release an animal only to have it starve or be maimed by a car.

      Certainly read that way to me.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    144. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Certainly read that way to me.

      Probably because you were looking to pick a fight and chose to read it in the least reasonable fashion.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    145. Re:Sounds Good To Me by c · · Score: 1

      > Don't give an unwanted animal to PETA. Give them to the Humane Society.

      But _not_ to the Humane Society of the United States, who are to animal welfare what Scientology is to religion. Find a credible shelter or rescue.

      Better yet, grow a pair, _learn_ how to deal with your animals issue(s) yourself, and stop being part of the problem.

      > They'll try.

      Well, some will try. The unfortunate truth is that giving up an unwanted pet to many overcrowded shelters is an instant death sentence. Shelters are _legally_ obligated to hold strays to be claimed for a minimum period (3-7 days, usually), but they have no such obligations for owner surrendered animals. So when they're completely out of room and deciding to euthanise... you do the math. Heck, many rural shelters don't even bother to run adoption programs... the only options are return to owner, send to rescue, or kill.

      c. [frustrated rescue doggy foster dad]

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    146. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Some, not all. But the ones, who didn't think slaves should be considered men, are as much founding fathers as are Franklin and Jefferson.

      And your point, that it was a time o change is you could say my point. Their values aren't ours, as is shown by the fact, that slaves were (by constitution) 3/4 of a man.

      Mentioning them is an apeall to authority.

    147. Re:Sounds Good To Me by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Animal abusers are as bad as wife beaters, same cowardly assholes.

      Sure ... but that's not the question. What we, as a society, have to decide is this: do we declare animals to be human beings, with all the same rights and privileges? If so, then we should be punished in exactly the same way. Otherwise, abusing an animal should not carry the same punishment.

      Now, having said that, I agree: people that abuse animals are assholes. But that does not mean that a person who kicks a dog to death should be put away for murder. That is just batshit insane, yet there are people who believe that's a good idea.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    148. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Now, having said that, I agree: people that abuse animals are assholes. But that does not mean that a person who kicks a dog to death should be put away for murder. That is just batshit insane, yet there are people who believe that's a good idea."

      It has to be based on context. If he kills the dog because it was rabid and about to attack him it's one thing, if he violently tortures it with a slow death, then that's one sick individual who is not the sort of person that should have a free run in a civilised society. I agree kicking a dog to death is not necessarily murder, but I'd argue that's one seriously violent individual who is not safe to have on the streets.

      Jail really should exist to keep dangerous people off the streets, and what's important is not necessarily the victim of the crime (dog, or human) but the crime itself- if it's a violent crime, it's still violence however you cut it and evidence that someone is not a safe, stable member of society.

      You need to have quite a fucked up mindset to enjoy killing something for fun in a cruel and brutal manner.

    149. Re:Sounds Good To Me by azmodean+1 · · Score: 1

      Concerning the sentience or lack thereof in cows, chickens and pets:

      Not that I disagree with your initial point, I agree that most food animals have been bred and/or raised such that they are basically automatons, but generalizing to all animals is perhaps a bit much. "feedstock" animals are both bred and raised in order to have no personality, it's a desirable trait in the industry. Also there are some pet animals that have no discernable personality (small, ornamental birds for example). However an animal that has been bred and raised to be a companion or worker is a very different beast (pun intended), and from what I've seen is worthy of being treated with at least some of the dignity and respect that we generally reserve for "real people". Somewhere in the continuum between eating-and-shitting food production machine and lifelong companion and friend there is a probably very broad and indistinct grey line, but I think there ARE animals on both sides of that line, and that the ones we deem to be on the side closer to us should be respected and protected.

      Concerning your other argument, that such a list is not necessary since people (or at least the majority of people) who are animal abusers can be "fixed" and become safe such that a list of this kind is not necessary... I tend to have some sympathy for your view, since the animal abuse anecdotes I am aware of have almost universally had some element of "they aren't people, so it's ok" to it, rather than the compulsive, mental-illness kind of impetus child abuse seems to be frequently linked with. Many cases of animal abuse seem almost casual, which just drives animal rights activists crazy (crazier?), but on the plus side, if it IS casual, that means not as much disincentive needs to be applied to prevent the activity. All that aside though, I'd need to see some studies on the subject, particularly with regards to punishments applied and recidivism rates to develop a solid opinion on the subject..

    150. Re:Sounds Good To Me by azmodean+1 · · Score: 1

      Here's one, I recall the coverage being better, perhaps you can find a better article once you have some of the details from this one though. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/05/AR2007050501009_pf.html

    151. Re:Sounds Good To Me by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Thanks muchly!
      That really was fascinating.
      Cheers

    152. Re:Sounds Good To Me by inthealpine · · Score: 1

      Your not thinking in the context of the time and what was going on. Abolitionists didn't want slaves to be counted as a man at all...zero... This is because the more people the south had, the more power they had in congress and thus say over questions of slavery. Don't discount the founding fathers so quickly, they were much smarter than we can even imagine.

      --
      "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash"
    153. Re:Sounds Good To Me by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      I grew up working on a concentration camp so I know what you mean. It's laughable that people care so much about how we treat the Jews. These animals are not people. They're an infection and drain on resources.

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    154. Re:Sounds Good To Me by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      Totally. I didn't abuse my wife, I killed her outright. Sure it took a minute or two to bleed out, but after that she was fine.

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    155. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who will add things such as drunk men urinating in public to the sex offender list.

      You've long since been overtaken by events, dude. They already include it under indecent exposure.

    156. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Nathrael · · Score: 1

      Sadly, I have to disagree with the latter part of your post. In my experience, those who commit wanton abuse of animals (read - abuse with the intention to inflict pain, not just throwing rocks at the fsckingly annoying birds in your garden) generally tend to have more than just a hormone problem, and their behavior towards humans often leaves just as much to be desired.

      The intention of lists like these (just like sex offender lists) are to protect other people from the dangerous individuals on them (it's just too bad that occasionally, harmless people that had one drink too much and opted to urinate in public end up on sex offender lists as well, but that's another issue). And I know I wouldn't want my children anywhere close to a guy who thought it would be fun to deep-fry a cat just as I wouldn't want them anywhere near an exhibitionist.

      --
      A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
    157. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still some, not all. You're essentially agreeing with me. The Constitution was a compromise, like all Documents of such magnitude. I'm not dicounting the ones who had great ideas. But I won't discount the others either.

    158. Re:Sounds Good To Me by bhagwad · · Score: 1

      Yep - I wouldn't kill the baby only for fear of reprisal.

  2. It would be nice for conversation purposes by SlappyBastard · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hate to discover only after the fact that someone I'm having a conversation with likes to beat a dead horse.

    --
    I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
    1. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by anss123 · · Score: 2, Funny

      VHS is better than Beta! People often compare high quality beta players with cheap VHS players, but that's not fair at all. The better VHS players have just as good an image as Beta and has longer playtime too.

      ...nothing quite like revisiting an old horse I'm afraid.

    2. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's nowhere near as bad as finding out that someone you're shaking hands with has just finished spanking the monkey.

    3. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this were true, then 'factory farming' should be right at the top of the list as well as the dead horses. My guess is the list will be for kittens, not 50,000 pigs living in a concentration camp.

    4. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      This is slashdot. I think you can be certain that you are.

      --
      -Styopa
    5. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Hahaha. This was a great post! Thanks for the laugh. (Still laughing.)

    6. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Screw that, we should never have ditched wax cylinders. What other recording medium can you make yourself cheaply at home?

    7. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by SlappyBastard · · Score: 1

      Say what you want, but the guy spanking the monkey at least knows when to stop.

      --
      I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
    8. Re:It would be nice for conversation purposes by SlappyBastard · · Score: 0, Troll

      It was 6 million, and there called "Jews" you insensitive prick!

      On a side note: Dude? Seriously? WTF? This was a humorous comment and you go all fucking PETA on my shit?

      --
      I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
  3. Just wait... by EmagGeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It won't be long before we have public registries of parents whose kids misbehave in school, registries of people who buy pr0n, and registries of people who do anything else the masses of paranoid freak helicopter soccer moms don't like...

    1. Re:Just wait... by Joe+Mucchiello · · Score: 1

      You left out people who self-abuse.

    2. Re:Just wait... by terraformer · · Score: 2, Funny

      You left out people who self-abuse.

      Oh crap...

      --
      Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
    3. Re:Just wait... by terraformer · · Score: 1

      It was supposed to be...

      You left out people who self-abuse.

      Oh crap, now that's going on my permanent record too...

      --
      Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
    4. Re:Just wait... by ToastBusters · · Score: 1

      It won't be long before we have public registries of parents whose kids misbehave in school

      Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised by a registry for teachers who taught kids who misbehave in school and were blamed by the parents for said students behavior.

      Always remember: It's the teachers fault. Parents had nothing to do with it.

    5. Re:Just wait... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      "Paranoid freak helicopter soccer moms"

      What, exactly, does "helicopter" mean here? I mean I get the rest... but that one is just way out there in left field.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    6. Re:Just wait... by Rogerborg · · Score: 1
      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    7. Re:Just wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are constantly hovering over their kids (Simpsons reference, although the phrase may pre-date that episode).

    8. Re:Just wait... by debrisslider · · Score: 1

      It means someone who is constantly hovering over their kid's shoulder (in some cases almost quite literally) as in overprotectively smothering them and often interfering with school and other activities.

    9. Re:Just wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Paranoid freak helicopter soccer moms"

      What, exactly, does "helicopter" mean here? I mean I get the rest... but that one is just way out there in left field.

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=helicoipter+parent

    10. Re:Just wait... by maxume · · Score: 1
      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    11. Re:Just wait... by daveime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't worry about it, once everyone is on all these lists, they'll no longer be able to single anyone out.

    12. Re:Just wait... by pclminion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seeing as that sexual offenses and inhumane treatment of animals are illegal, and the examples you cite are not illegal, I'm not really very worried. Once the things you mention become CRIMES, then I'll start worrying.

    13. Re:Just wait... by Montezumaa · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sadly, this seems to be the way this country is moving. Too many people attempt to attach "scarlet letters" on anyone they deem bad(and I believe animal abusers to be bad people). The problem is that the intentions of this bill is one thing, but the implementation of the bill will be another.

      Some idiot law maker or enforcement official will attempt to list a person, or people, who were never supposed to end up on the list and this will end up a catch all for all sorts of criminals. The fact is that, once a person serves their punishment, then they are supposed to be free of any future retribution for that particular violation. Just look at the State I live in(Georgia) and our sex offender registry.

      Rather recently, non-sex offenders have ended up on the Sex Offender Registry due a change in the law here and Georgia is not the only state to do this. I applaud the legislature's intentions, but it was ended up causing a lot of extra grief and undue burden on the people who have to maintain that list. Now, many felonies that simply involves a minor(some that are even non-violent) are qualifying people for the sex offender registry. Those people have to check in with local law enforcement when the move in to the area and they have to check-in and maintain the other requirements of those on the sex offender registry.

      I foresee this bill, should it become law, having major challenges and being defeated fairly quickly. It also shows the dangerous course the United States is on.

    14. Re:Just wait... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Does anyone even question the slippery slope fallacy anymore?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    15. Re:Just wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Helicopter moms" are the types that "Hover" around their children non-stop, ready to pounce on even the slightest of infractions, or the tiniest of percieved threats.

      "No Timmy! Don't touch that dirty, FILTHY kitten! You don't know what kinds of disgusting bacteria could be on it! I DON'T CARE THAT IT IS CUTE! Get inside and scrub your hands with hand sanitizer, DO IT NOW!"

      Yes, that kind.

    16. Re:Just wait... by bertoelcon · · Score: 1

      registries of people who buy pr0n,

      Most empty list of them all. Perhaps a list of people who bought sex toys.

      the masses of paranoid freak helicopter soccer moms

      Crap, that would be a big chunk of the sex toy list.

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    17. Re:Just wait... by ami.one · · Score: 1

      I propose a public registry of Mod Point Abusers at Slashdot

    18. Re:Just wait... by jasonq · · Score: 1

      it's called google

    19. Re:Just wait... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Well, people who buy porn are clearly stupid freaks, since you can get all you can consume and more online for free, and often far sexier stuff than "professional" movies, so such people should be registered because they are clearly sex addicts who can't be satisfied by anything, and thus potential sex offenders.

      We also need a register for people who feel the need to "cutely" misspell or half-censor porn, fuck, shit, or any other "bad" word. Not because these people are dangerous or anything, but just so the rest of us can find someone to feel superior to in a hurry when we're feeling down, you balless wimp.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  4. What about ... by Bob_Who · · Score: 4, Funny

    Violent bestiality with a minor?

    1. Re:What about ... by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      Drugged, or GTFO.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:What about ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I think under CA law, you could apply for disability.

      I'll have to apply. I'm a pyronecrobestiapedophiliac.

      Yes, I like to take young dead animals, light them on fire and then fuck them.

    3. Re:What about ... by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

      Violent bestiality with a minor?

      Pics or it didn't happen.

    4. Re:What about ... by mglmnc · · Score: 1

      One cancels the other one out, you're free to go

    5. Re:What about ... by jasonq · · Score: 1

      go to wales, you can have violent bestiality with a miner

    6. Re:What about ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quote>Yes, I like to take young dead animals, light them on fire and then fuck them.

      I am intrigued, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
      BTW, has any of the flaming dead animals exploded while fucking? *Fap,Fap!!!*

  5. End run? by headkase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is this an end-run around the "served your time" part? I thought our theory of law was that once you served your punishment you were a Citizen again (yeah like convicts can't have guns...). So, is this indefinite punishment? And this is coming from someone who thinks animal abusers have serious psychological problems: the real problem is what when 1000's of different "registries" exist?

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:End run? by mog007 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about the finite punishment bit, but as far as creating a list, and retroactively adding people to it goes, the Supreme Court has ruled that it doesn't violate the "ex post facto" clause of the Constitution. I imagine they've also judged these lists as not violating the eighth amendment.

    2. Re:End run? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the real problem is what when 1000's of different "registries" exist?

      . I think they already exist, it's just that most of us aren't aware of them, or at least don't have access to their contents (the TSA's "no-fly" list being a prime example.)

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:End run? by couchslug · · Score: 0

      Your sig, sir:

      "Beware those who would deny you Information. For in their heart they dream themselves your master."

      Convictions for animal abuse are public record. They should be available so those of us who wish to know their employees, neighbors, or renters background can avoid being blindsided by some psycho. "Paying your debt to society" doesn't in any way equate to "being a permanently changed person".

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    4. Re:End run? by rolfwind · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are people on the sex offender list merely "caught" peeing in bushes and then charged with exposing themselves. And how about teens texting nude pics of themselves and charged with child porn? It has become a district attorney's game where they can claim putting X number of sex offenders away. Lots of good people's lives ruined for political bullshit. And the list itself becomes nearly worthless in telling good people from bad.

      Animal abusers shouldn't be put on lists. It's disgusting what they did, they should be punished and that's it. But where is the line? If I step on some insects walking or accidently drive into an squirrel crushing it (but not killing it), will a DA who has it out for me (or is merely looking to get reelected) charge me on a high crime betting that I will plea bargain a deal that includes putting me on this list?

      America has an obsession with punishing people one way or another for life (I think after people are released from prison for a felony, they can't get a passport which means they can never travel abroad again) for things that don't even approach murder/rape but with like tax evasion. We don't need to become an ever more punitive society for lesser and lesser offenses.

    5. Re:End run? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then why don't we brand people with their crimes so interested parties won't even have to look it up. Just say "Pull up your sleeve so I can read your convictions." It would save a lot of time and resources.

      If someone is required to be on a list for public ridicule then we obviously feel that they didn't pay their debt. In that case, the initial punishments should be more severe. And yes, I do feel the same way about sex offender registries. Keep those fuckers in jail if they are still a danger to society.

    6. Re:End run? by h4rr4r · · Score: 0

      Well for one if you run over an animal and are concerned it is critically injured but not yet dead you should humanely finish it off. If you cannot do this, you should get someone else to do it, if you cannot do that then do not drive a car.

    7. Re:End run? by Reziac · · Score: 3, Informative

      Consider that under some interpretations, failing to license your pet is "abuse"... there have already been confiscations citing a few fleas as "abuse"... In San Francisco, failing to provide "quality food" (which is not defined by their new law) is "abuse"... the ways an ordinary pet owner could find themselves on this list is endless, everyone can play!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    8. Re:End run? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Punishment? I thought it was to bring you to penitence.

    9. Re:End run? by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I think they already exist, it's just that most of us aren't aware of them, or at least don't have access to their contents (the TSA's "no-fly" list being a prime example.)

      I don't think we need any lists to tell us that some of us spank our monkeys. Some being habitual abusers even.

    10. Re:End run? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "avoid being blindsided by some phycho"? What?

      Explain how you, as an employer, might be "blindsided" by someone that has a history of animal abuse.
      Explain how you, as a neighbor, might be "blindsided" by someone that has a history of animal abuse. And be careful. "I asked him to watch my dog and he killed it" is not being blindsided. When you put your trust in someone with something as precious as your pets without actually knowing the person well enough (you know, by TALKING TO THEM OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, not looking them up in some database) then you'll ALWAYS be blindsided because you're a damn fool.
      Explain how you, as a landlord, might be "blindsided" be someone that has a history of animal abuse.

      Until you explain these things then you're really doing nothing but creating hysteria.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    11. Re:End run? by shiftless · · Score: 1

      If I ... accidently drive into an squirrel crushing it (but not killing it)

      ???

    12. Re:End run? by osgeek · · Score: 1

      People peeing on bushes are the rare outliers that no one is really gunning for. Removing them from any lists should be a priority.

      You'll forgive me if I don't shed too many tears for the repeat offenders who should have been castrated.

    13. Re:End run? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Political correctness run wild. Yes, I would prefer EITHER that people do their time and are preferably rehabilitated OR at least be honest and lock the incurable sociopaths up forever. Minnesota has been at the forefront of this sort of thing with their sex offenders. After they have done their time, then they go to the psychiatric prison until the psychologists decide they can be released. _VERY_ constitutionally dicey, one would have thought, but it's been going on for years.

      Registries can almost have worse effects. People with histories of child abuse might not be the most desirable new neighbors but there are documented cases where these people have been forced to become homeless nomads because virtually nobody will rent to them or hire them. What sort of life, and likely criminal acts, does that funnel them into? And, if I'm not mistaken, I believe I read that the incidence of repeat offending is high but less than 50-50 so nowhere near the unbeatable compulsion and certainty that the social meme commonly assumes. So for every person who's still potentially dangerous, society is crapping on somebody who wouldn't be if given a break and allowed to go on with his life.

    14. Re:End run? by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      Good luck on a one way highway.

    15. Re:End run? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      I can use convictions to pre-emptively exclude those convicted. That does in NO WAY mean that I'd take no precautions regarding people who have not been convicted. Living in a "good" neighborhood does not ensure one will avoid being a crime victim, but makes more sense than living in a "bad" area. Just as I choose economic segregation to protect MY interests, I would prefer to not extend myself to those I can exclude as threats.

      It does not serve ME to have animal (or human) abusers in my space because their willingness to abuse indicates they are fundamentally toxic, Since this is all about me, not them, I want access to useful information that serves MY interests. The people I choose to exclude can go live their lives without my assistance, and nothing is lost thereby. I don't wish to foment hysteria, but don't try to imply that I have any obligation to such folk other than that set out in law.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  6. History repeats itself by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For reference, see Les Miserables.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:History repeats itself by martas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      can you explain please?

      yes i'm illiterate.

    2. Re:History repeats itself by wizardforce · · Score: 4, Informative

      The title means "miserable ones" It's about a guy that was in jail, served his time and had to carry a document identifying him as a former criminal. Then pretty much everyone in society that knew he was a former criminal because of that identification made his life outside of prison a living hell. There is a lot more to it that comes later but that is the gist of the beginning.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    3. Re:History repeats itself by martas · · Score: 1

      i actually remember watching a french mini-series adaptation of this book when i was a kid... but i didn't understand shit back then... partly because it was in french :). but i do remember my siblings being particularly impressed by it.

      maybe i should read it someday... oh well.

    4. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will see your Miserables and raise you a Scarlet Letter.

    5. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All for the great crime of stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family, too!

    6. Re:History repeats itself by AlexBirch · · Score: 1

      D'oh and all this time I thought that Les Miserables was a fictional work... now I'll have to rethink Quasimoto was treated.

    7. Re:History repeats itself by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Of course it is. But as many plays and other works of literature and art in those times it was a reflection of reality. Historical fiction was pretty big back then.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, by today's standards, if he was white, it would be "finding" bread. If he was black, he was "looting".

  7. Crime Statisitics by Dartz-IRL · · Score: 1

    IIRC all crime statistics are public knowledge anyway. If a person is convicted of a crime, this is recorded and this record is made available to the public.

    It wouldn't be impossible to establish a 'registry of serious criminals' using only scannings on newspaper articles and the like. The data is already public, it just needs to be collated together.

    Of course, I know I'm being simplistic... there's a lot more to it than that, but I don't want to right an essay on the implimentation, merely point out that it is possible.

    --
    So there I was, scribbling down some notes off the PC screen by hand, when I reached for the keyboard and Ctrl-S'd.
    1. Re:Crime Statisitics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "information" isn't the interesting part. Nobody really cares if you kicked a dog, and if they did care, then like you said, they can look it up.

      The entire purpose of the registry is to continue punishing the people on them by passing laws banning registered people from living in certain places, requiring them to check in with the cops on a regular basis as if they were on parole, requiring them to update their address, etc.

    2. Re:Crime Statisitics by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but have you seen the paranoia over these "sex" offender registries? People are afraid to move into houses because there might be a "sex offender" living on the next block. Never mind that these people don't seem to look at the real picture and look at the trial and see that his only crime was peeing in public and he is now 73 years old and wheelchair bound. The point is, taxpayer funds are being used for this completely stupid project that adds nothing (who the hell cares if someone kicked a dog? I sure as hell don't), adds more debt to an already bankrupt state (next thing you know my federal taxes are going to be "bailing out" financially challenged California) and takes away rights (once you have served time, you should be treated as a full citizen, taking away voting rights for felons is honestly tyranny because they have suffered more harm by the state than anyone else, and even taking away second amendment rights I believe is questionable).

      In short, this is a terrible idea because taxpayers are going to have to foot the bill for yet another useless project from a bankrupt state.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Crime Statisitics by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      The entire purpose of the registry is to continue punishing the people on them by passing laws banning registered people from living in certain places, requiring them to check in with the cops on a regular basis as if they were on parole, requiring them to update their address, etc.

      The purpose is to keep them from running puppy mills, hoarding 127 cats, etc.

    4. Re:Crime Statisitics by richlv · · Score: 1

      it's a bit more than "kicked a dog". let's say, burned pigeons live in their parents fireplace, with exits covered by grates. or hung cats, while skinning them live. and yes, that really has happened here recently. let's say, that could have been your cat.
      while i do believe people like those deserve the same done to them (and as many times as they have), i'm seriously opposed to public registers like that. it won't help with the matter, other solutions must be found.

      --
      Rich
    5. Re:Crime Statisitics by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Could not have been my cat, or else they would not have to worry about any list for that sicko.

    6. Re:Crime Statisitics by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      IIRC all crime statistics are public knowledge anyway. If a person is convicted of a crime, this is recorded and this record is made available to the public.
      It wouldn't be impossible to establish a 'registry of serious criminals' using only scannings on newspaper articles and the like. The data is already public, it just needs to be collated together.


      Really? So how do I find out if the person living next to me is on the list? I don't have his name, he's a renter, so not in the public record. Unless everything is owner occupied, there will be a disconnect.

    7. Re:Crime Statisitics by shiftless · · Score: 1

      -1, LOL. wow.

    8. Re:Crime Statisitics by Darkness404 · · Score: 0, Troll

      What? It is simply property. I'm not going to be pissed if my neighbor steals my shovel and pays me back for it. Yeah, its not going to be my favorite thing in the world to have happened to me, but its not a huge deal.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    9. Re:Crime Statisitics by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hope you do not own animals. They are not simply property.

  8. there's a new tax too by wizardforce · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apparently they estimate that it will take several hundred thousand dollars to run the registry annually and claim that the number of federal convictions for animal abuse in California is not large enough to levy enough fees on the convicted to fund the registry. In short, they want to levy a tax on pet food to pay for the registry.

    --
    Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    1. Re:there's a new tax too by terraformer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently they estimate that it will take several hundred thousand dollars to run the registry annually and claim that the number of federal convictions for animal abuse in California is not large enough to levy enough fees on the convicted to fund the registry. In short, they want to levy a tax on pet food to pay for the registry.

      In a state that is bankrupt no less...

      --
      Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
    2. Re:there's a new tax too by Bill+Dog · · Score: 1

      Like passing resolutions banning cussing for a week, this is the Calif. legislature trying to do anything but face the problem that has the state in crisis.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
    3. Re:there's a new tax too by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      In a state that is bankrupt no less...

      And now you know exactly why California's bankrupt. Remember: only in San Francisco would Nancy Pelosi be considered mainstream.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    4. Re:there's a new tax too by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      In a state that is bankrupt no less...

      And now you know exactly why California's bankrupt. Remember: only in San Francisco would Nancy Pelosi be considered mainstream.

      Funny I would have thought that it was because California and Californians basically pay the federal government a shitload more money than they get back in benefits.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    5. Re:there's a new tax too by caladine · · Score: 1

      Even more funny - this is exactly what Pelosi and the Democrats propose to keep doing. Tax the rich and give to the poor, no? There's no accident that all the states that have similar problems to California (e.g. pay more in federal taxes than they get back) are all states where the per capita income is in the top 10 of the 50 states.

    6. Re:there's a new tax too by techno-vampire · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I live in California, and I can assure you that California Democrats never saw a spending program they didn't love or a tax they didn't vote for. The result, of course, is that businesses are leaving here as fast as they can, taking their jobs with them.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    7. Re:there's a new tax too by h4rr4r · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah, all the money ends up going to the flyover states, you know the same fuckers who claim they hate this sort of thing. Put your money where your mouth is then folks, lets see these states give back those ill gotten gains.

    8. Re:there's a new tax too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yep, whole freakin state is financially jacked and our so-called lawmakers want to pass another ridiculous law? Unfortunately I'm a long time resident, albeit on my way out, mainly because of this type of stupidity from the politicians in Sacramento. How about improving infrastructure, jobs, etc to get this state productive again. BTW, I'm an animal lover and think anyone that harms an animal deserves to get slapped, but there are other more serious issues that need attention in California.

    9. Re:there's a new tax too by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      There's no accident that all the states that have similar problems to California (e.g. pay more in federal taxes than they get back) are all states where the per capita income is in the top 10 of the 50 states.

      You make it sound so sinister! The states that pay the most in federal taxes are, obviously, the ones with the most economic activity. That's not a Robin Hood plot, it's just how taxes work.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    10. Re:there's a new tax too by Mr2001 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Funny I would have thought that [California is bankrupt] because California and Californians basically pay the federal government a shitload more money than they get back in benefits.

      I thought it was because the law in California requires a super-majority vote to increase taxes, and the Republicans control enough votes to prevent any tax increases from passing, but at the same time they don't want to cut popular spending programs.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    11. Re:there's a new tax too by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I live in California, and I can assure you that California Democrats never saw a spending program they didn't love or a tax they didn't vote for. The result, of course, is that businesses are leaving here as fast as they can, taking their jobs with them.

      This seems to be the chosen method for "revitalizing" the entire world. Ruin everyone who is not wealthy and drive them into an early grave, but keep enough of them around to provide the pool of labor necessary for tire replacement and the serving of coffee and scones. It happens at different rates in different places, though. California definitely has way too many laws.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:there's a new tax too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember: only in San Francisco would Nancy Pelosi be considered mainstream.

      Let's not forget that we also have the duplicitous cunt Feinstein -- she never met an anti-gun law she didn't love to orgasm, but she has (and uses) a concealed carry permit for herself.

  9. Re:What do you tell a cat with two black eyes? by hack++slash · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'd like to see you try tell a Liger twice...

    --
    To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
  10. Politicians and the public are.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Cruelty to animals, it is said, is often a precursor to graver crimes.

    Yeah, right. What orifice was that pulled out of.

    It would also be a boon to law enforcement because animal abuse, the bill's authors' say, often escalates to violence against people.

    I was once out with a woman who trained dogs. This rather large dog went ape shit towards this woman and child. The owner of the dog talked to the dog and "scolded" it for its behavior. That was it. The trainer said that the owner of the dog was an idiot because one day that dog is going to attack someone and maybe seriously hurt them or kill a child. The owner should have put that dog in a head lock, slammed it into the ground, and let in know by no uncertain terms that its behavior was wrong. I guess preventing deadly attacks by dogs is now illegal.

    Abuses covered in the bill would include the malicious and intentional maiming, mutilation, torture, wounding or killing of a living animal.

    Good bye pharmaceutical and any other animal based research in California! No more hunting. Oh, and when a heard of deer needs to be thinned out, does that mean they're going to ask the deer to take birth control and leave the state? Will they offer relocation to the deer? Just wanna know.

    It would also target pet hoarders...

    Good bye private animal rescue centers!

    the issue is simple. Do Republican members ... really want to be seen on the side of animal abuse? I don't think they do."

    Oh God. I'd rather have someone kick the shit out of their dog than beat the shit out of me.

    1. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Good bye pharmaceutical and any other animal based research in California! No more hunting. Oh, and when a heard of deer needs to be thinned out, does that mean they're going to ask the deer to take birth control and leave the state? Will they offer relocation to the deer? Just wanna know.

      Yeah, it's pretty messed up all right. A friend of mine who lived in California for many years recently suggested that I move there. It's when I read articles like this that I realize why I never did. Of course, this is nothing new. I remember reading about how LA's government doesn't allow the use of the word "slave" in technical documentation. This is just an extension of that same mental illness, and I hope it doesn't spread Eastward.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      No more hunting. Oh, and when a heard of deer needs to be thinned out, does that mean they're going to ask the deer to take birth control and leave the state?

      Yes, actually that is what they do. I'm from the midwest and in a city (I think it was near Kansas City) they were proposing opening a small (like 1 week) hunting season in this park that was overwhelmed with deer (far beyond the carrying capacity and people kept hitting deer left and right) and they seriously proposed putting birth control or something in the food to stop this overpopulation. And this is in Missouri where the first day of deer season practically is a state holiday! Let alone what the idiots in California are thinking.

      Here is a link about it: (can't find primary source but this is as good as any that helps show how stupid these people are) http://www.shawneedispatch.com/news/2009/sep/17/protests-deer-hunt-shawnee-mission-park-continue/

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      The registry is just a new way to levy another tax (on pet food) that said, the registry applies to *felony convictions of animal abuse* in California. Unless hunting is now a felony in California, it will not show up on this list.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    4. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is from a state that requires warning labels to be put on anything more than pure water (and even then they are probably attempting to pass a bill with a warning sticker "This product contains Water a chemical known to the state of California to cause drowning and water poisoning"), who basically is bankrupt, who thinks they need to tax everything for the little they do to help the people and now have this. The people running California, I'd have to say, are basically brain-dead idiots.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    5. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Itninja · · Score: 2, Informative

      Cruelty to animals, it is said, is often a precursor to graver crimes.

      Yeah, right. What orifice was that pulled out of.

      Um, that's kind of like basic criminology and stuff. Just read through the histories of a few killers on Wikipedia and see how many 'got their start' killing neighbors cats (Edward Emil Kemper lll) or burning the eyes out of crabs with matches (Andrew Cunanan).

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    6. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      | Cruelty to animals, it is said, is often a precursor to graver crimes.

      Yeah, right. What orifice was that pulled out of.

      "It is said ...." -- the certain sign of the milquetoast who passes on unsubstantiated rumor, just to hear himself mewl.

      WAIT!!! -- it gets far worse that that -- do you have any idea how many poor wretches started on breast milk, then graduated to pot, heroin, PCP and some even to alcohol?

      O. the ruined humanity.

      Mother's milk is the ultimate gateway drug,

      Join me, my brothers, in the nationwide crusade to ban tits!

    7. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Lars512 · · Score: 1

      Yes, actually that is what they do. I'm from the midwest and in a city (I think it was near Kansas City) they were proposing opening a small (like 1 week) hunting season in this park that was overwhelmed with deer (far beyond the carrying capacity and people kept hitting deer left and right) and they seriously proposed putting birth control or something in the food to stop this overpopulation. And this is in Missouri where the first day of deer season practically is a state holiday! Let alone what the idiots in California are thinking.

      In similar situations in Australia, animals (e.g. kangaroos) are simply culled to keep their population down. It's still a bit controversial though. IMHO, animal rights groups don't quite have a coherent take on this, and seem to object to culling on principal. Animals suffer in the wild too though, and if their population is allowed to explode, the amount of suffering will increase as many starve. I'm all for population controls like culling done humanely.

      That said, if you could plausibly implement birth control, that would be far more humane. It works in situations where you're the one giving them food to begin with (e.g. pigeons), but I can't see how it be cheap enough to do otherwise.

    8. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Reziac · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem is, the excess deer are already here. You can give them birth control and cut future increases, but most of the ones that are already here are still going to live another 10 years or so -- well, unless starvation and consequent disease kills them first (as it will, once they've finished denuding their environment). Wildlife overpopulation usually leads to a massive die-off, and a lingering death from starvation or disease is a lot more cruel than a quick death from a bullet.

      The other problem with birth control is that it's nonselective -- so it negates reproduction of the fittest (which includes those savvy enough to evade hunters, including both humans and other predators), likewise not in the herd's best long-term interests.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    9. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I've been living in Cali all my life. This state is, by far, one of the most beautiful blends of geography and wonder that I think you can find. We have everything from mountains to beaches to deserts and forests. We have Big Trees. We have Yosemite. We have Death Valley. We have Tahoe. We have Mount Shasta.

      In the spring, you can drive up and down I-5 or highway 99 and see orange trees and fruit orchards as far as the eye can see. Our state produces one metric fuckton of food annually. We have Silicon Valley. We are home to one of the only GEO capable launch sites in the world. California is, in my opinion, a marvelous place.

      Now, that said, there is something extraordinarily wrong with California society right now. I hope we can fix it. This place is worth fighting for. But I agree, the general populace seems to be plagued with some sort of mental illness. It's sad.

    10. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few killers 'got their start' with animals... so what? How many people are cruel to animals vs how many of those become serial killers?

      I read a few serial killers 'got their start' with... VIDEO GAMES! ZOMG! Ban *ALL* video games! SAVE THE CHILDREN!!!

      what a stupid fucking argument.

    11. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, so everyone who has ever kicked a puppy should be on the short list of mass murder suspects. Excuse me sir, you didnt clean your cats litter box regularly enough, and theres a serial killer around, you need to come with us for questioning.

    12. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just that, but animal cruelty is already a fucking crime so really there is no issue at all. The issue here isn't animal cruelty - it's human cruelty. Branding someone for life is cruel and unusual punishment and should never become law.

    13. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by wormBait · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The simplest solution is to stop hunting the mountain lions in California, since they are the primary deer predator. They would have the deer populations in check in just a few years. But that would cut into the profits of the developers who keep destroying natural habitats and insist we kill all the dangerous wildlife (since if you buy your multi-million dollar home on the edge of the wilderness you don't actually want any dangerous wildlife to visit). And all the ranchers who aren't willing to take the time and effort to actually manage and protect their herds would object too.

      It is a similar problem with people killing all the rattlesnakes and then complaining about ground squirrel overpopulation and the more significant threat of bubonic plague and hantavirus.

    14. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Yeah...just like all those meth users who got their start with marijuana. Obviously marijuana is a precursor to worse drugs since those who use worse drugs usually started with marijuana. Right?

    15. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      It is safe to say that more killer went to public school than abused animals. More killers ate fried eggs than abused animals, and more killers brushed their teeth thank abused animals. If they were going to make more animal related laws, we would be much better off if they classified dogs like they should be... The same as a gun. They could follow that up by classifying cats as they should be...the same as rats.

    16. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      As a non-Californian, I second this. I am from Europe, but I have been living in San Diego for a year. Gotta agree with every point you make in that post. Now, please fix your politics, so that I actually might consider coming back again. :)

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    17. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by Reziac · · Score: 1

      While I agree that building developments in wilderness or worse, prime farmland, is utterly stupid and destructive, it is not really a factor here.

      Firstoff, this wasn't in California; it was somewhere in the midwest or back east. But the same applies to deer populations in several states. New Jersey has had such a deer overload in recent years that starving deer are invading towns looking for food, even in summer. Overall in North America, deer are now 2 to 3 times as populous as they were before civilization. This is less due to predator loss (wolves are actually overpopulated right now, with about 4x as many on the "restored" ranges as those regions can support; this is causing a large-game die-back in some areas) than to reduced hunting by man -- remember that Native Americans were almost exclusively hunting cultures, and imposed enough hunting pressure over the previous several thousand years that some researchers believe they extincted a number of large game species. Modern humans simply don't hunt that much. Also, deer tend to increase into cultivated areas, because they are browsers and this suits them better than forests.

      Second, contrary to popular opinion, both mountain lions and notably BEARS (a major predator of fawns) have become 3 TIMES as numerous in human-plagued California as they were in primitive times. Bears are reported in Los Angeles foothill communities 300 to 400 times a year at present. (Sometimes miles from the nearest wilderness of any sort.)

      Third, research on rattlesnakes (which are extremely plentiful throughout their range and have not been impacted by man at all) indicates that they are pretty much worthless as vermin control, because they only eat a couple times a year, and that they don't really have a significant role in controlling anything. (Conversely, gopher snakes eat once or twice a week. And the major control on small vermin is actually coyotes, which are much more populous now than they were 2000 years ago. Per DNA studies, it turns out they are only native to the southwest, and had FOLLOWED MAN across the continent. 28% also had domestic dog DNA from about 2000 years ago.)

      As to what ranchers do, ever heard of livestock guardian dogs, or hired shepherds? both do a pretty good job so long as the big predators aren't overloaded. The problem is not the occasional kill made to eat; it's that (contrary again to city perceptions) ALL predators kill for entertainment, and a herd of sheep is just SO much fun to make run madly in all directions and rip to shreds. But I guess vandalism is okay if it's done by a wild animal to livestock instead of a gang-banger to a storefront, right?

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    18. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by wormBait · · Score: 1

      Sorry about getting the state wrong, I was thinking it was California due to a previous, unrelated post. I am only familiar with the details of California's ecosystem and cannot intelligently comment on New Jersey or most other areas.

      In California, there are a fair number of mountain lions, but the bear issue is a human-caused one. California Grizzlies were native to California and were a top predator. Once hunted to extinction, they were then artificially replaced with the Black Bear, which does not hunt large game like deer. They are much smaller bears and have a completely different role in the ecosystem. So the fact that there are more is unsurprising, since they are effectively an invasive species. The mountain lions are currently taking on the role of hunting from both wolves and grizzlies, so it would make sense if there are more needed for deer control.

      With rattlesnakes, I was referring to California alone, where the California Ground Squirrel is extremely overpopulated. In California, the rattlesnakes are one of the primary predators of ground squirrel young (they eat a lot of babies, relatively fewer adults). Though the total population of rattlesnakes is fine, often where human populations and wildlife meet, the rattlesnakes are locally underpopulated and there is an explosion of ground squirrels. While this is not a threat for rattlesnake extinction, there then exist extremely high densities of squirrels which are more likely to carry nasty diseases right next to where people live.

      Regarding livestock, I feel there is a difference between actively protecting a herd and using guard dogs and shepherds and just simply slaughtering any predators (and deer/bison/etc. that carry diseases and compete for resources) that cross over onto your property. Many grazing animals today are not well herded due to myriad factors, and overall I feel that is irresponsible. One outlandish solution is getting rid of all the non-dairy cattle and their feed crops in places where bison were native, and instead let the bison deal with the predators on their own and we simply sustainably hunt the bison.

    19. Re:Politicians and the public are.. by aqk · · Score: 0

      I was once out with a woman who trained dogs. This rather large dog went ape shit towards this woman and child. The owner of the dog talked to the dog and "scolded" it for its behavior. That was it. The trainer said that the owner of the dog was an idiot because one day that dog is going to attack someone and maybe seriously hurt them or kill a child. The owner should have put that dog in a head lock, slammed it into the ground, and let in know by no uncertain terms that its behavior was wrong. I guess preventing deadly attacks by dogs is now illegal.

      Oh God. I'd rather have someone kick the shit out of their dog than beat the shit out of me.

      DAMN RIGHT! Not just a headlock. That dog owner should have beaten that shit dog to within AN INCH of that miserable dogs life!
      Hey- it works with children, doesn't it? My friends kids all respect their elders! They were beaten proper right!
      Same goes for dogs!
      An' don't let any women diss you! Just slap 'em around a bit! They'll learn!
      Any dog that tries sumthin "funy" with me will quickly larn its place!
      AN' THAT GOES FOR WOMENY AND KIDS TOO!
      Now if you'll excuse me, I just saw this stray cat in my garbage can. I'll pour some gasoline on him and light it!
      That's how you teach cats! It's fun too!

      hmmmnnn... wonder if this would work with kids....

  11. HD-DVD was better than Blu-Ray by SlappyBastard · · Score: 1

    Be careful. There's a slippery slopes that goes from beating a dead horse all the way down to turning the horse into cube steak.

    --
    I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
    1. Re:HD-DVD was better than Blu-Ray by rts008 · · Score: 1

      ...to turning the horse into cube steak.

      And thousands of French/Apaches are wondering...WTF? Horse is Great!

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  12. Animals, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does that include politicians and lawyers who authored the bill?

  13. Doesn't apply to private animals then? by oheso · · Score: 1

    *Whew!*

    1. Re:Doesn't apply to private animals then? by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Doesn't apply to private animals then?

      No, but it does apply to animals' privates...

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
  14. This could be quite useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sheep farms could background check employees against this type of list.

    If someone's puppy goes missing they could use these lists to interview suspects.

    And if a dead squirrel is found, detectives might be able to rule out natural causes if an abuser is found.

    They should be careful not to take it so far. Many birders could be put at risk merely for taking a picture of a young chick.

    1. Re:This could be quite useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Sheep farms could background check employees against this type of list.

      I thought they were already doing that when they ask "Are you from New Zealand?"

    2. Re:This could be quite useful by formfeed · · Score: 1

      ..and
      Vegetarians could avoid neighborhoods where people slaughter their own chicken.
      People who dissected frogs in school could be banned from city parks.
      You could check to find out, who of your neighbors owns mousetraps.
      The neighborhood association could have long discussions about the guy with the dead tank fish bringing down the property values.

    3. Re:This could be quite useful by aqk · · Score: 0

      Many birders could be put at risk merely for taking a picture of a young chick.

      'specially if that cute young blond chick shows a pussy too!
      CAUTION! VIEW AT YOUR OWN RISK!

  15. Let's Make A Public Registry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Lets make a public registry for every felony. We might able to digress to more grievances in order to keep the public safe. By the end of two decades worth of charades, I think it would be a great idea to start giving certain groups clothes for them to wear in public which identifies their past offenses. *Sarcasm* I do not enjoy posting forums with the obvious Nazi agenda, the comparison is too hard to neglect, I'd feel ignorant if I did not point this out. Heck the Sex Offender Registry does not help anyone anyways. All it does is identify where the person lives and has difficulty in getting passed prior offenses in order to maintain life. What is going to stop him from going on a stroll in the park to pick up his next victim if he is not rehabilitated? Nothing.

    1. Re:Let's Make A Public Registry... by Bill+Dog · · Score: 1

      Let's make a public registry for people who propose public registries... and the nuisance to society created therein.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
    2. Re:Let's Make A Public Registry... by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Lets make a public registry for every felony"

      An excellent idea.
      Practical enough, and the very public knowledge of criminal tendencies would leave criminals fewer places to hide.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:Let's Make A Public Registry... by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Practical enough, and the very public knowledge of criminal tendencies would leave criminals fewer places to hide.

      And if it's one thing we want to make potentially dangerous ex-cons, it's desperate. No one ever does something insanely stupid when they're desperate.

  16. So, what next? by Xamusk · · Score: 3, Funny

    Next time they will create a public online registry of slashdotters.

    1. Re:So, what next? by oldhack · · Score: 1

      Meh. It's not so bad, really. They give you karma here, you know. Even mod points, sometimes.

      Beats working, anyways.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    2. Re:So, what next? by aqk · · Score: 0

      public online registry of slashdotters. ?

      Nah... Just brand 'em with a big /. right on their forehead!

  17. Just another scarlet letter to maintain by ishmalius · · Score: 1

    Does the country really need yet another list like this? How much more of the shun/banish behaviour must we exhibit in our increasingly shrill nation?

    1. Re:Just another scarlet letter to maintain by game+kid · · Score: 1

      How much more of the shun/banish behaviour must we exhibit in our increasingly shrill nation?

      LOL gb2/4chan fgt

      --
      You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
    2. Re:Just another scarlet letter to maintain by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As always, the problem is that the overwhelming majority of people do not think about anything. Nobody stops to think about the other registries we have, or the fact that we are publicly shaming people for less and less serious crimes, or the fact that people who are released from prison are supposed to have the right to put the past behind them.

      This is not a system that can last forever, but it is going to get a hell of a lot worse before it falls apart.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    3. Re:Just another scarlet letter to maintain by Stumbles · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This type of thing is starting sound like a witch hunt. Let's shame them in public before we see if they will float... erm weight less than a duck... or was that wood?

      --
      My karma is not a Chameleon.
    4. Re:Just another scarlet letter to maintain by Reziac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I predict that it will not stop until we are ALL wearing *some* sort of scarlet letter. :(

      BTW under other legislation being pushed by this same HSUS-backed crowd, owning more than N-many animals is "abuse" (how well they're cared for is absolutely irrelevant), and breeding pets AT ALL is also "abuse". Best-practices for some types of livestock have already been classed as "abuse". The fact is, such a registry will expand right along with these irrational laws, until everyone who owns a purebred dog is included, everyone who hunts is included, and everyone who farms is included.

      And it's all about the money:

      Recommended reading:
      http://humanewatch.org/index.php/site/comments/the_humanewatch_interview_frank_losey/

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    5. Re:Just another scarlet letter to maintain by faboo · · Score: 1

      Stones!

      Little ones.

  18. Won't Someone Please Think of the Puppies? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Funny

    That is all.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:Won't Someone Please Think of the Puppies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wont Someone Please Think of the Puppies?

      fap fap fap...?

  19. I support this. by stimpleton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I like to think I am as objective as they come. I am for privacy. I hate "for the children" mentality.

    But when it comes to animal abuse, I loose some of that rationality. Animal abusers are dangerous and cant be trusted. And I believe it is a behavior that once practiced may never leave a person. They may suppress it for the rest of their lives, but underneath the potential is there to harm people, especially given a one in a million encounter.

    From Wikipedia: "Cruelty to animals is one of the three components of the Macdonald triad, indicators of violent antisocial behavior in children and adolescents. According to the studies used to form this model, cruelty to animals is a common (but not with every case) behavior in children and adolescents who grow up to become serial killers and other violent criminals. It has also been found that animal cruelty in children is frequently committed by children who have witnessed or been victims of abuse themselves. In two separate studies cited by the Humane Society of the United States roughly one-third of families suffering from domestic abuse indicated that at least one child had hurt or killed a pet.[41]".

    Sure, let animal abusers serve their time. Even give'em a job. Good luck feeling inner piece when your daughter says she is going camping with him, when his little discresion in life was nailing a cat to a plank of wood while performing some autopsy while it was still alive. Over the course of an hour.

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
    1. Re:I support this. by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But when it comes to animal abuse, I loose some of that rationality. Animal abusers are dangerous and cant be trusted. And I believe it is a behavior that once practiced may never leave a person. They may suppress it for the rest of their lives, but underneath the potential is there to harm people, especially given a one in a million encounter.

      Same thing could be said for any number of behaviours. Let me reword your post.

      But when it comes to porn watching, I loose some of that rationality. porn watchers are dangerous and cant be trusted. And I believe it is a behavior that once practiced may never leave a person. They may suppress it for the rest of their lives, but underneath the potential is there to have sex with someone, especially given a one in a million encounter.

      And hopefully you will see how stupid it sounds.

      Sure, let animal abusers serve their time. Even give'em a job. Good luck feeling inner piece when your daughter says she is going camping with him, when his little discresion in life was nailing a cat to a plank of wood while performing some autopsy while it was still alive. Over the course of an hour.

      Who cares? Guess what? Everyone has done strange things in their life. Does that mean we get to label those who got caught and classify them as "dangerous"? No, of course not. The entire point of justice is you serve time and you are free and don't have to keep serving it forever. The other way is tyranny.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:I support this. by martas · · Score: 1, Troll

      vivisection, it's called

    3. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You are trying to establish a reverse causality link. It doesn't work like that. How many people that commit an act of "animal abuse" grow up to be serial killers? There is no data on that, but I would imagine it to be pretty small. Obviously, I can't substantiate my claim, but neither can you. So in the end, you are giving no better argument than the "for the children" one that you claim to hate.

    4. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you'd be okay with your daughter, sister, etc. dating a convicted wife-beater, rapist? It's all good until he snaps again, is it? Hmmmm...

      Here's the way it really works. There are good people and there are evil people. The vast majority of people stay in their category and only a very, very few bad people ever turn themselves around. There's no magic switch that gets toggled at the completion of serving time in prison. That's just the way it is. You would have to be quite foolish to think that past actions don't indicate future actions in any way.

    5. Re:I support this. by mysidia · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ok, great reason to create a registry of Bedwetters also, then (however).

      Whenever you move into a new house, you will be required to inform all your new neighbors that you were a persistent bedwetter past the age of 5.

      Since all past bedwetters are dangerous and cannot be trusted. It is a behavior that once practiced may never leave the person. They may suppress it for the rest of their lives, but underneath the potential is there especially given a one in a million encounter.

      From Wikipedia: "The triad links animal cruelty, obsession with fire setting, and persistent bedwetting past the age of five to violent behaviors; particularly homicidal behavior"

    6. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If they are dangerous, why were they allowed out of prison in the first place?

    7. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, let animal abusers serve their time. Even give'em a job. Good luck feeling inner piece when your daughter says she is going camping with him, when his little discresion in life was nailing a cat to a plank of wood while performing some autopsy while it was still alive. Over the course of an hour.

      Or just send them to the United States Senate, where they belong.

    8. Re:I support this. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Having sex is normal, it is not an indicator that the person is dangerous to others. Abuse of animals is a very good indicator that a person is dangerous to other animals, including humans.

    9. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, "I hate "for the children" mentality."

      However, "Good luck feeling inner piece when your daughter says she is going camping with him, when his little discretion in life was nailing a cat to a plank of wood while performing some autopsy while it was still alive."

      huh...

    10. Re:I support this. by misexistentialist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The majority of animal abuse cases do not involve psychopathic individuals. Neglect, accidents, and one-time assaults are more common and not much worse than what happens to farm animals or the billions of poor castrated pets.

    11. Re:I support this. by outsider007 · · Score: 1

      If we follow this logic we would also need a bed wetters registry.

      --
      If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
    12. Re:I support this. by corbettw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I like to think I am as objective as they come.

      As do we all.

      But when it comes to animal abuse, I loose some of that rationality. Animal abusers are dangerous and cant be trusted.

      At least you admit to being irrational. I score you full points for that honesty. But do you really think someone who keeps 24 cats in their house and lives in squalor should be on a public registry? Or what about someone who participated in blood sports that were legal in their own country before they moved here? The first deserves our pity, the second needs either a one-way ticket back home or a quick education on what's acceptable in their new homeland. Neither needs to be saddled with this bit (pardon the puns) all their lives.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    13. Re:I support this. by D+Ninja · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But when it comes to animal abuse, I loose (sic) some of that rationality.

      Exactly. You admit yourself that you are not nearly as rational when it comes to acts of cruelty against animals.

      Don't get me wrong - I love animals. Had a number of pets as a kid. But, lists like these ones are an extremely slippery slope and are really just politicians playing against people's fears and/or lack of rationality, or are a way to mask real problems. Lists create an environment for a person to be judged for the rest of their life (because, ya know, everybody ELSE is messed up, but I'm perfect and can judge them) for something that they may have already been punished for.

      Additionally, you also say:

      Sure, let animal abusers serve their time. Even give'em a job.

      The problem is, there will be enough people who will not only not give them a job, but they will also go out of their way to abuse and harm these individuals for something that may have been a brief, stupid adolescent move when they were young. One punishment, and done.

      Good luck feeling inner piece when your daughter says she is going camping with him, when his little discresion in life was nailing a cat to a plank of wood while performing some autopsy while it was still alive. Over the course of an hour.

      Good grief. Now you're just fear-mongering as well as any politician. Heck, the fact that you can even come up with this might mean that you should be on that list...

    14. Re:I support this. by stimpleton · · Score: 1

      I agree. The first example does get pity from me, and I support every assistance to improve their circumstances. As for hunting, while I not keen on the concept, I have no problem with it. Most hunters would be distressed to see an animal suffer. The 2nd slashdot effect is to always clamor for grey areas. I thinks its black and white. The above examples you cite are different to the person who stood on a kitten till their stilleto heel pierced its head, then posted in online and thought it funny. Summary.

      --

      In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
    15. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And you have to be quite foolish to think that current registries solve more than they harm.

      One registry that treats 16 year old's that pix each other the same as violent offenders? One label that shows no difference between the two?

      Why not have a list of people who drink alcohol... where one drunken night gets you on the same list as the ass-clown who just got his 25th-DUI-while-suspended?

      Why not have a list of people who are 'racists'... where one word said in anger that's *possibly* racial puts you on the same list with those who have killed for race?

      Lists as they stand are a failure, a waste of money and serve no greater good.

    16. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some quick numbers. 6% of the population is arrested for commission of a violent crime at some point in their lifetime in the US (according to the US DoJ). 30% of people convicted of animal abuse are later arrested for commission of a violent crime (Northeastern University study, but there have been dozens with similar results). I'd say that's a fairly significant indicator.

      (Posting anonymously since I already modded.)

    17. Re:I support this. by izomiac · · Score: 1

      Who cares? Guess what? Everyone has done strange things in their life.

      Strange things, yes, but I would venture a guess that the vast majority of people don't torture animals. For neglect type abuse I could see how that could just be an apathetic individual. For sadistic type abuse there has to be something fundamentally different about that person. Most people just find the whole concept inconceivable.

      BTW, I mean real torture. Killing for a purpose is logical, and humans are inherently violent, so even a "normal" individual might occasionally kill for amusement. Heck, chimps and dolphins do as well. Slowly eviscerating a living mammal while it struggles helplessly is an example of what isn't within the range of normal.

    18. Re:I support this. by carcosa30 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Loss of rationality on the subject is precisely the reason why they chose animal abusers to enact these new unconstitutional laws.

      Consider: why don't they do it with murderers? Well, because they don't think they could get the laws passed, because people like you are far more concerned about cute little puppies and cows than people.

      No, they'll do this first. Prevent the people from getting jobs, subject them to perpetual shame and humiliation.

      If you think our government is concerned about animal welfare, you must be smoking some good shit.

      --
      Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
    19. Re:I support this. by corbettw · · Score: 1

      Someone who would do that to a kitten needs counseling, not a lifetime stigma that traps them into a certain class from which there is no escape. "Scarlet letters" just don't work.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    20. Re:I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about a registry of politicians? Anyone who currently is or seeks to claim a position of public power to further their own or their party's goals at the expense of the people they claim to represent should be put on a registry. I know I'd never serve one of these "politicians" at my place of business, and I'd cajole them out of my neighborhood if I knew one was moving in.

      Or for recursiveness' sake; a registry of people who want to create more registries. Does having the idea mean I would be the first on this list?

    21. Re:I support this. by martas · · Score: 1

      "performing some autopsy while it was still alive" => vivisection. How am I being a troll, exactly???

  20. The other lists... by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    Also reported was the decision not to make a mass-emailer's registry. Since they self-announce the list was deemed redundant and scrapped.

    However THE PEOPLE WHO ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS registry will continue as planned.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  21. Serial Killers violate animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully all the would be serial killers will get caught and put in the registry when they're teenagers.That way the police will have access to some record of their perverted and sick minds.

  22. Robert A Heinlein by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 0

    When a place get's so large it requires registries and licenses it's time to move somewhere else. (Paraphrased).

    Sounds like it's time to move off this planet.

    1. Re:Robert A Heinlein by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      When a place get's so large it requires registries and licenses it's time to move somewhere else. (Paraphrased).

      Sounds like it's time to move off this planet.

      Just nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

    2. Re:Robert A Heinlein by 32771 · · Score: 1

      Actually we should rather go the A. C. Clarke direction and get the scull cap. That relieves us of doing all the complex paperwork and provides whatever inhibition is required to not kill the neurotic dog of the neurotic neighbor.

      One could also throw a piece of Asimov in and let MULTIVAC perform a consistency check of human generated laws - a sanity check before the control information is handed down to each human being.

      I would take great comfort in the idea that a computer controls me where computer-like accuracy is requested from me. Just imagine, you could finally have flying cars, nuclear heated homes, and breeder reactors (no more plutonium proliferation issues).

      On the other hand we could follow "Alien" and just breed non-pathetic animals and we will soon have other problems to worry about than pet registries and licenses. After all superhumanity will not arrise with the help of cows, carp, cats and other milquetoast animals.

       

      --
      Je me souviens.
    3. Re:Robert A Heinlein by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      I would take great comfort in the idea that a computer controls me where computer-like accuracy is requested from me. Just imagine,

      Don't worry, nothing will go wrong go wrong row grong rogue gone rogue gone rogue gone

    4. Re:Robert A Heinlein by 32771 · · Score: 1

      Cute!

      However, people fuck up all the time. So when you came out of your mom, were you told "Don't worry, nothing will go wrong." when you started screaming :)?

      On a more serious note, there are workplaces where you have to hit buttons to prevent accidents like having your hands chopped off. Any more refined and also intrusive means to prevent more complex fuck-ups will enable higher risk technologies. This could be installed on a voluntary basis (people go to war voluntarily) and a government under competitive pressure might just permit this and then some.

      You see, we won't go from free will today to scull cap tomorrow. Today we may have some sort of automated observation techniques:

      http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.99.8216&rep=rep1&type=pdf

      In between there will be more incremental improvements. Nobody will worry too much from step to step apart from some notorious naysayers, you know how these things work. I mean people accept torture nowadays, the scull cap has way more benefits than torture if used on a large number of people.

      --
      Je me souviens.
  23. Your rights online? by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 0

    How is this a yro, and how the hell does it relate to news for nerds? I mean come on. Give me some more apple and google stories. Slow news day I guess.

  24. Re: Oh NO by maxume · · Score: 1

    Internet Trolls!

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  25. It depends by weston · · Score: 2, Informative

    on if they torture it to death to make it taste better. Or cut its throat and let it bleed to death. Or maybe just forced to live in the livestock equivalent of cube farm 24/7.

    (I'm making these remarks somewhat tongue-in-cheek... I'm not particularly zealous about animal rights. There's certain ones I like to eat, and I don't feel too horrible about animals food with humane handling while they're alive. But I do think that systemically perpetrated suffering while the animals are alive presents a moral problem, and realize we have a system that, well, presents it.)

    1. Re:It depends by Puff_Of_Hot_Air · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your first reference is a guy saying "I heard they torture dogs to make them taste better". This is not a reference! Now, I believe that your statement may be true (I know a guy from China who told a story about his father/grand father beating to death his favourite dog to eat for dinner for his bride to be. The idea was that it was a big sacrifice that proved his love, but cultural differences were never going to make that story ok to a westener). As to eating animals in general, I'll quote Dr. Temple Grandin (the autistic cow lady) "I think using animals for food is an ethical thing to do, but we've got to do it right. We've got to give those animals a decent life and we've got to give them a painless death. We owe the animal respect."

  26. Damn by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    I forgot to mention the People Who Reply to Their Own Posts registry.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  27. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck California!

  28. buying pr0n by Mistakill · · Score: 1

    It won't be long before we have public registries of parents whose kids misbehave in school, registries of people who buy pr0n, and registries of people who do anything else the masses of paranoid freak helicopter soccer moms don't like...

    wait... people buy pr0n? what???? doing it wrong ;)

  29. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They may be 'just animals' to most people, but that's like saying it's 'just cruelty.' There is something inherently wrong with enjoying inflicting pain on a helpless victim. In that sense, it is not different than abusing or molesting a human child. The principles are the same. Blah blah blah about putting animals and humans on the same level. That's just a runaround argument people who don't understand the full scope of the problem use.

    People who abuse animals include those who fight dogs- who also run other illegal activities and make money this way, instead of getting an honest job, and getting to inflict their dissatisfaction with the world on an animal that they bred and raised only to kill for sport. Maybe having a public registry won't matter- look at Michael Vick, he's doing as well as he ever has, despite having been responsible for the unnecessarily cruel and violent death of dogs that didn't want to fight. And then people continue to condemn pitbulls as killers, when it's humans that kill them.

    The issue is not, at its root, how animals are being treated. The issue is what kind of behaviors we will condone in society. Killing for a purpose- like farming, is utilitarian, necessary for people who eat meat. Vegetarians kill vegetables. Something has to die for something else to live. But killing for pleasure, killing to see the pain and suffering of a victim, is inhumane, it's sick and people who do it should be publicly flogged, not quietly chided. And yes, some workers in meat production plants should also be thrown in jail. Torture isn't necessary in the death of a food animal, and some of those workers do horrific things in addition to a necessary death. People who do these kinds of things aren't functioning members of society and if they lived on my block, I would want to know about it. People treat each other like shit, and that will never change until we start respecting smaller forms of life.

    I'm sick of people who wave away responsible citizenship as overkill. Especially in a city where dogs are stolen from backyards to be bait for some worthless piece of crap's blood sport.

    1. Re:Good by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      Yeah, i totally slew that apple tree. i didn't enjoy it's flavor anymore than you enjoyed your steak last night. So it's not like we sadists.

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
  30. This is on the slippery slope and quite unfair... by straponego · · Score: 1

    Once cat-torchers have served their time, they should have a fair chance at living a useful life. Which is why people who are cruel to animals should have much longer sentences than are currently meted out. It's very typical to see these broken, soulless, irretrievable individuals laughing on their way into trivial jail terms. No empathy whatsoever.

    But yeah, if we must ever let them out, by all means keep them off these lists. They've got human rights, after all. Just install a skunk-scent anklet to protect the neighborhood pets.

  31. Once they get so big... they become pointless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The problem with "lists" and "registrys" is that they quickly become so broad, they are pointless. See our various "no fly" and "watchlists" which seemigly snags everyone and anyone because they have a common name. Its not uncommon to hear stories about babies named John or whatnot strip searched and interrogated because they are on the no fly list. While the real potential terrorists such as the gentleman over christmas who tried, and failed, to blow up an airliner had no problems purchasing his ticket at the last minute, get accompanyed to the gate by a unrelated relative, and get on an airplane. And again the same logic goes for our sex offender registries. I can pull up the list for my neighborhood, and on the map they are everywhere! Oh the horrors! When in reality, the law is so broad it not only gets the violent ones whom probally should be under close guard, but anyone for even the pettiest of sex crimes (Such as gentleman who 20 years ago when they were 18 had sex with a 17 year old, whom is probally now his wife). We dont have a registry of other convicted felons, whom most i would be more worried about than the majority of people on the sex offender registry.

  32. Ooh, yes, I want to abuse public animals. by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 0, Troll

    Please sign me up.

    (RTFA? All I need to read is the /. headline.)

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  33. Oh for the love of... by Jhon · · Score: 1

    I cannot begin to express my frustration with my state legislators. I'm living in a state that is not only one of highest taxed states in the union (and in many cases *THE* highest taxed state), but also the state with one of the worst budget problems in the union! Every penny spent on this exercise could be better used paying off it's $6 billion budget gap (soon to be $20+ billion next year) PER YEAR!. It's quite possible we'll default on some of our bond's this year!

    Look -- I'm all for harsh punishment for ANYONE who causes sadistic pain on man or beast -- but for the love of all that's holy, I don't need to know that there's a guy who bagged and drowned a cat living within a 1/4 mile of me! Not at any cost. And not in this economy.

    1. Re:Oh for the love of... by brian1078 · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. This legislation is reason 10394852 that we need to return to a part time legislature in California. Al they should be concerned with is passing a balanced budget. We have enough laws here already. IF something's missing, we have the referendum process (which has it's own problems and needs reform).

  34. So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they want to track PETophiles? Go for it.

  35. So let me get this straight... by athlon02 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    a state that every American, with any kind of attention span, knows is broke and needs to CUT spending is creating more financially wasteful bureaucracy. California you truly love to live up to your title as the land of fruits and nuts, don't you?

  36. We need an... by Black+Gold+Alchemist · · Score: 1

    ..idiotic politician registry. Fortunately, it will be very easy to create. Just add up every the names of the politicians in the every congress, house, senate, and parliament in the world. Throw in the presidents and kings, delete all the dupes, and you're done. Now you know if an idiot lives near you!

    --
    Responsibility is an addiction
    Virtue is a temptation
    Community is a cartel
  37. our situation summed up poetically. by the+simurgh · · Score: 0

    ode to the folly of men.... when they demanded that all pedophiles register, i said nothing for i was not one of them. when they demanded that all the criminals register, i said nothing for i was not a criminal. when they demanded that all immigrants register, i said nothing for i was not a immigrants. when they demanded that all superheroes register , i said nothing for i was not a superhero. when they demanded the super scientists to register, i said nothing for i was not a super scientist. then they demanded i register and there was nothing i could do, for all the others were already under their thumbs.

  38. On the fence on this one, and my stomach hurts by beadfulthings · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As somebody who (a) values privacy and finds government's invasion of it abhorrent; but (b) has seen some of the results of chronic animal abuse, I feel a bit like the proverbial Christian Scientist with an appendicitis attack.

    From the animal-rescue point of view, the world is full of crazy and vicious people who cruise around "adopting" animals for subsequent abuse. This includes dogfighters looking for bait, people who produce crush films, hoarders, puppy mill operators, crazed cat ladies, people who practice killing and torture rituals, and even idiots who just want a fresh puppy every year or so. Most animal adoptions take place on a sort of honor system, the potential for abuse is huge, the actual amount of abuse going on is both shocking and sickening, and there simply isn't any money for any investigation or follow-up.

    From the invasion of privacy standpoint, it should be observed that there are also plenty of animal-loving lunatics abroad in the land. That would be the folks who think that animal abusers should be tortured, castrated, deprived of their children, burned out of their homes, or otherwise "suitably" punished for their misdeeds. People exist who believe that the death penalty as it's administered here is too mild for animal abusers. Such a list in their hands would be downright dangerous.

    There must be a way that law enforcement could share information regarding convicted abusers with licensed shelters and rescue groups without making such information readily and publicly available in a one-stop database.

    Sigh.

    --
    "Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
    1. Re:On the fence on this one, and my stomach hurts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually, I'm not a lunatic of any sort. At least I don't take any pills for it.

      Seriously though, if you routinely abuse animals on purpose what does that say about you?

      If that's you then sorry but the population isn't small enough for your life to hold much value.

    2. Re:On the fence on this one, and my stomach hurts by Com2Kid · · Score: 1

      That would be the folks who think that animal abusers should be tortured, castrated, deprived of their children, burned out of their homes,

      And the problem with any of those is?

      Hey I think I know how California could pay for this registry without any new taxes! Pay Per View events! $20 to see an animal torcherer get stoned to death.

    3. Re:On the fence on this one, and my stomach hurts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's easy to spot animal abusers. They aren't very nice people.
      Unfortunately, too many people are completely emotionally blind, and unable to recognise evil when they see it.
      There is a simple solution to this problem - just make the prison sentences MUCH longer, and allow THE PEOPLE to decide the length of those sentences.

    4. Re:On the fence on this one, and my stomach hurts by captjc · · Score: 1

      Define animal abuse. Sure, things like beating, torturing, not feeding or otherwise causing physical harm to an animal are obvious. The problem is that there are people, (I know a few) that believe that all animals not only deserve every human right given within the constitution but in many cases should be given priority over other people (e.g. "how dare you try to get rid of the mice living in your kitchen! It is their home as well!"). I recall a story from my friend that he got bitched out by his then-girlfriend because he fed his dog table scraps and dog food and let it sleep on the floor. Apparently, he was "supposed" feed it a medium-rare sirloin steak every day and buy it a twin-sized bed and a love seat to sleep on. There are plenty of emotionally disturbed people that hate-hate-HATE people but god forbid anything should happen to a "poor defenseless animal".

      Another anecdote: every town, no matter how small, seems to always have that one crazy cat lady. That one lady that is forty-some years old and seems to have at least 30-some cats and assorted animals that just overrun the house, yard, and neighborhood block. A few years back there was a raccoon at the town park and playground. It started acting strange and someone called animal control. A few of the parents started rushing all the kids off the playground to safety. The raccoon started to freak out and attacked one of the parents. Animal control came and captured it and it was euthanized so it could be tested for rabies (turned out it was). The next day the guy who was attacked had a rock smash the window of his house and his tires slashed. A few days later there was a letter from the neighborhood cat lady in the shout-out section of the weekly town paper basically confessing to the vandalism because he had "cruelly slaughtered the raccoon for his perverse medical tests and should have sent it to an animal hospital to receive the care and attention it deserved (on his dime)" along with a few choice words comparing the poor guy to Hitler.

      Simply put, there are plenty of lunatics who love animals and hate people who also have no sense of scale when it comes to how to treat animals vs how to treat people. There are probably a few misguided people in power that have their own definition of what constitutes abuse. These are the kind of people that believe that having a dog "beg" or fetch is humiliation and therefore abuse. There are other more militant crazies that will use this information to perform their own vigilante justice. I would never approve of real abuse towards animals, but there are plenty of people in this world who take it way too far.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  39. Chelsea King by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another list seems relatively pointless.

    Chelsea King's murderer was nicely listed. Now an innocent 17 year old girl is dead, having probably spent the last moments of her short life in terror and misery, because she was foolish enough to go for a run.

    How, precisely, did the list help her?

    Personally, I think the lvl 3 sex offender list should be retitled to the "no legal consequences for murdering the scumbags on this list" list, but that's just me.

    --
    -Styopa
  40. What's the big deal? by maillemaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't understand the outcry of privacy advocates here.

    All matters of criminal law are matters of public record, as they should be.

    Making this information easily searchable is just technology, folks.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    1. Re:What's the big deal? by steak · · Score: 1

      the point is that in theory after you have served your time you are rehabilitated and no longer a pederast, rapist, dog killer. its like if hester prynne and deacon whatshisface were married and they made her wear the letter once her old missing husband turned up. i don't necessarily believe that but it is the argument.

      of course if your a movie director or football player, you can go on screwing 13 year old girls and killing dogs without worry.

  41. Voiceless representation by cybscryb · · Score: 1

    As much as I hate more government, someone needs to be the voice that speaks for those who can not speak for themselves. I'll have to side with the abused on this issue.

  42. What about those who eat meat ? by Exception+Duck · · Score: 1

    What about those who eat meat ?
    Isn't eating meat animal abuse ?
    Land of the free ?

    1. Re:What about those who eat meat ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      idiots
      Americans are idiots.
      Not just for this. but so many other things.
      And they know it.... idiots...
      Their'e best defense is "i did not vote"
      lol

    2. Re:What about those who eat meat ? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No, the animals can be humanely slaughtered. If your dinner is still alive when you eat it, then that would be animal abuse.

    3. Re:What about those who eat meat ? by Exception+Duck · · Score: 1

      ah, just like carrots :)

  43. cockfighting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see how is that any useful, I attend a cockfight atleast 1 per week here in California LA county, and there is plenty of dogfihting, but I don't attend those.
    Usually when the cops show up they don't arrest anybody they just give ticket to the property owner and they tell the 100s of people to just go home. Most of the times they don't even confiscate the animals. People go to this things by the 100s maybe that is why the cops don't bother arresting people.

    1. Re:cockfighting by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Sounds like they should be arresting these folks. Great way for the state to make some extra money and it needs it.

      Oh and probably should just have the property owners put down. Cheapest solution to the problem.

      I think chickens are just broccoli with legs but these sick fuckers are totally useless and are probably involved in many other crimes.

    2. Re:cockfighting by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      Your post is riddled with so many subtle hypocrisies that it blows my mind.

  44. Your mindset is the real problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know what else is in that psychobabble worthless triad of predictors?

    Bed Wetting as a kid.

    So, time to sign yourself into the registry of maybe evil people that need to be tracked!

  45. Don't worry... by feepness · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's just a side effect of our state government being so flush with cash they don't even know how to spend it all! Huzzah!

  46. Whatever by Carl.E.Pierre · · Score: 1
    Whatever

    *Goes back to spanking his monkey*

  47. Just what we need... by sleeping143 · · Score: 1

    Because the world is nowhere near judgemental enough these days.

  48. traffic violations are more about revenue then stu by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    traffic violations are more about revenue then stuff like that.

  49. How about a law abuser registry? by noidentity · · Score: 1

    We could have a registry for all people who abuse the laws and their political positions. I guess we already have one, that being the list of anyone who's ever served in office.

  50. If you're a douchebag to others (people or animal) by log0n · · Score: 1

    Then sure... everyone has the right to be warned you're a douchebag.

  51. I Abuse Animals all the time... Mmmm Burgers. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

    Will they put everyone who eats meat on the list?

    Just a thought.

  52. Give unwanted animals and money to local shelters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't give them to the Humane Society of the US (the ones that advertise abused animals on TV). They were people were caught in NC killing animals and dumping their bodies in dumpsters after being given them. Because there was no evidence of cruelty and the animals were willfully given, they only got convicted of illegal dumping. The more you find out about them, the weirder and less humane they sound.

  53. slippery slope by cas2000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this the slippery slope to further government mandated lists and registries?

    no. the beginning of the slippery slope was the introduction of sex-offender registers. as has been amply proven by this new register.

    1. Re:slippery slope by glodime · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Is this the slippery slope to further government mandated lists and registries?

      no.

      Because a slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy, therefore false by definition. The introduction of an animal abuser registry does not necessarily lead to nor is it a prerequisite for other criminal offense registries.

      That being said, I think criminal offense registries are inherently a bad idea. A good idea would be to extend incarceration sentences and reduce parole eligibility for violent crimes.

    2. Re:slippery slope by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      Because a slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy, therefore false by definition.

      it may be a logical fallacy, but it's a real-world phenomenon.

      in case you hadn't noticed, the real world - ESPECIALLY politics - doesn't operate on logic, or anything even remotely similar to logic.

      the "slippery slope" doesn't state or even imply a direct causal relationship. it's a shorthand summary of the empirical knowledge that if a govt or corporation (or even an individual) gets away with something once, they will almost certainly try to do it again in other contexts AND use their previous success as excuse/justification.

  54. Re:Proverbial Christian Scientist w/ Appendicitis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the proverbial Christian Scientist with an appendicitis attack.

    Which Proverb was about a Scientist with appendicitis? If only George Carlin was still around to show us the correct bible verse.

    R.I.P. Mr. Carlin...

    Sigh

  55. mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's fact, not flamebait. The rural, conservative states tend to be the ones that receive more money from the federal government than they pay in federal taxes. It's somewhat hilarious for people in those states to complain about taxes and government spending when that stuff is what's keeping their states afloat.

    1. Re:Mod parent up by glodime · · Score: 1

      +1

    2. Re:mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      did you happen to notice that data is from 2004 ?

  56. More important by tthomas48 · · Score: 1

    It's probably more important than a sexual abuse registry, since animal abuse is a strong sign of those who will become abusers and serial killers (and if you cross-reference you're probably going to get a very good handle on who you really need to be watching).

    When I think about various sexual compulsions vs. a compulsion to kill the innocent and defenseless I'm going to go with the later as being far more frightening.

    I'm far less frightened of the government having a database of criminals than a government that has figured out how to lock people up even after they've served their sentence.

  57. Not the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't really see the comparison to the sex offender registry.

    You can tell your children not to go near the bad mans house, but thats not going to work so well for your cat. (And dogs have to be kept on a leash in public)

    A business that works with animals can already check a prospective employees criminal background.

    Its not going to prevent people abusing stray or wild animals.

  58. ._.-:-:_ by Therilith · · Score: 1

    The vegetarian animal rights hippie in me thinks this is a great idea.

    The rest of me is going on about slippery slopes as usual.

  59. You mercilessly kill them for food ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look who's talking? You are responsible for so many animal cruelities and torture due wrong eating habbits. And yet u like to talk about animal cruelity! Lord is watching and justice would be done.

  60. Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The follow up law will ban animal abusers from living within 1000' of any animals!

  61. Some sicko... by xororand · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some sicko tied up a cat's tail to his car and dragged it to death. I'm usually not a violent person but I still feel the urge to beat up that low-life badly, years after it happened.

    1. Re:Some sicko... by Calydor · · Score: 1

      And now, with this new registry, YOU CAN!

      This isn't meant to be a funny post, because that is exactly what's going to happen. Vigilantes heading off to show anyone on the list what it feels like to be abused - even if the only abuse was that the dog had fleas.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Some sicko... by psithurism · · Score: 1

      Some sicko tied up a cat's tail to his car and dragged it to death. I'm usually not a violent person but I still feel the urge to beat up that low-life badly, years after it happened.

      Live in CA? Soon you'll have his name and address! So you can, er, uh, (what's the euphemism I'm looking for?) prevent future animal abuse! Yeah!

      You might even find some nearby low-lives who need to be beaten badly while you peruse the new registry. Just be careful, people I know have been confused with criminals of the same name, so you might have to beat up quite few people before you find your mark.

  62. Glad I left CA by LBt1st · · Score: 1

    California should be more concerned with the fact that the state is just about bankrupt with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.

  63. Drug Offender registries are next. by xanadu113 · · Score: 1

    Drug offender registries are next...

    --
    -Myke
  64. No validity without meat indusry on the list by Br'er+Lappin · · Score: 1

    Are the meat, dairy, puppy mill, and zoo industries going to be included on this list? If not, it's worthless.

  65. Right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...After California goes bankrupt during a Republican watch, you still blame another party. But you're "insightful".

    1. Re:Right... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      California got into this trouble under the Democrats, and they still control the State Legislature.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  66. Other types of registry any time soon? by jbatista · · Score: 1

    Will this also open a precedent which will allow other types of registry to be created any time soon? I'm thinking: employee abuser registry; tax evader registry; etc. Let's rat on everyone else!

    --
    My sig is better than your sig.
  67. indefinite punishment by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Also means indefinite servitude to the government since you cant get a job..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  68. Aint got nothin' to hide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the real problem is what when 1000's of different "registries" exist?

    We have a registry of people who are against the registry. You've just been registered. We want EVERYBODY to know who all the people are, that are against our righteous and noble cause.

    If you don't have anything to hide, then you should be happy to be on our Registry. Look for your name on a telephone booth or Website near you.

  69. Re:Proverbial Christian Scientist w/ Appendicitis by doug141 · · Score: 1

    Which Proverb was about a Scientist with appendicitis?

    "there are no atheists in foxholes," except sort of the reverse of that, which really makes you think.

  70. Why not DUI registry by skogula · · Score: 1

    I've always thought that there should be a registry for people who repeatedly drive drunk. a few years ago I read a paper that compared stats. For every child that was kidnapped by a non-family member, 18 children were killed by a drunk driver in a vehicle other than the one they were in.

  71. Re:Give unwanted animals and money to local shelte by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Humane Society in my neck-of-the-woods tries to adopt an animal for 20 days. Then the are given to Animal Control, which tries to adopt the animal for 10 more days.

    PETA, on the other hand, often puts animals to sleep right away.

  72. Consider the options by jandersen · · Score: 1

    It is as always a matter of considering all the options available - something that neither politicians not slashdotters seem overly familiar with. And I am not saying that I would like to have a register or registers of offenders of this or that kind; in fact I am not stating any preference.

    It is not difficult to see why keeping a register is attractive or imagine who might be most against it. The question is how much of this "for or against" is actually anything but than smoke and mirrors?

    On the one hand, would having a register really make our life better and more secure? It seems doubtful, seeing how all these security measures always turn out to be full of holes that the criminals soon find - so it ends up being yet another chain around the legs of ordinary citizens, while doing nothing to protect; pretty much like a talisman or a superstition.

    On the other hand, when people are against being registered and supervised, how much difference does it make? If you carry a mobile, then you are already being followed in rather minute detail; if you use a credit or debit card, then your buying habits are already registered, if you have health insurance, then... well, you get the picture. You all seem to accept this as a natural part of life; so what the hell is the whining about? Yeah, a DNA register could be abused, certainly, but it could also be hugely beneficial.

    The point I am trying to make here is - start looking at the real facts, not the scaring imagery that some try to paint, or the ever more hollow repetitions of lofty ideals about freedom. You've got that pint of jelly in your skull; start using it for something.

  73. libel by epine · · Score: 1

    People peeing on bushes are the rare outliers that no one is really gunning for. Removing them from any lists should be a priority.

    The problem is that it is not a priority to correct errors in these lists, and I'm under the impression that the bureaucracy involved can take years or decades, just from stories about false credit reports.

    What this boils down to is circumvention of libel law. If you publicly accuse someone of being a closet pedophile or a Bernie Madoff and you can't substantiate your claim, you're in for a world of litigation. If someone ends up on one of these lists, and later it is discovered the person never should have been on this list in the first place, or the conviction was subsequently overturned, does this person have redress under libel law? Ideally for millions of dollars, which is how much I would want for damage to my reputation if someone put my name on a public list of pedophiles or wife-beaters.

    Ordinarily, when these public lists are created, such as credit reports, provision are enacted under law which partially or fully suspends libel protection, otherwise these lists would tend to be very short, once every possible risk of being wrong was fully considered.

    Let's suppose you become a convicted pedophile because a witness lies under oath. You go on the list, your life is hell, but then something comes to light that overturns your conviction, and provides compelling evidence that the witness against you was acting on malice. Do you then have the right to sue the false witness for damages to your reputation that would ordinarily accrue from libel law?

    Or, a not uncommon scenario, what is the libel exposure when the prosecution withholds evidence favorable to the defense?

    Convicted by doodles, Masters is freed by DNA

    I can live with the lists so long as there is absolutely someone to be sued for significant personal damage if the process leading to a person's name being added to the list is negligent or corrupt. I fear this is hardly ever the case in how these lists are implemented under legislation, or that the resources required to win such a battle are intended to be prohibitive.

    I'm a bit of bleeding heart liberal when it comes to prosecuting people for shooting someone under false assumptions. I don't believe the paranoid discharge of a lethal weapon enjoys constitutional protection. So carry the gun if it makes you feel secure, but don't expect to see much light of day for twenty years if your judgement proves faulty. Responsibility in proportion to capacity to harm.

    Yoshihiro Hattori

    Since I'm already being inflammatory, was the persecution of crypto-Jews under the Spanish Inquisition a stepping stone on the slippery slope toward the Holocaust? Perhaps 2000 Jews burned at the stake on the basis of utterances under extreme torture, and property confiscated for the betterment of the state. Imagine if they had been more organized.

    Which brings us back to pedophiles. *Finally* the society for the protection of known pedophiles lost a few stone buildings for their misdemeanours. How sad.

    Here's a trio of movies to put anyone in a somber mood about the making of lists.

    Good Night, and Good Luck
    The Thin Blue Line
    Twist of Faith

    The third movie in that list was irritating on some level and is not a movie I would watch again. What all these movies have in common is the imbalance of power between the accuser and the accused.

    Law enforcement is legitimately shielded from aspects of libel law so that they can do their jobs without constant fear of legal harassment (drug lords have unlimited legal resources). This is

  74. Re:Give unwanted animals and money to local shelte by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check your facts... that was PETA.

  75. Stupidity by crmarvin42 · · Score: 1

    This is assinine. Sex offenders are frequently predators. They will hunt down children, women, etc. to victimize. Therefore, the registries serve the purpose of making harder for them to hunt. The Sex Offender registries do not in fact exist for the purpose of continued punishment.

    Animal abusers on the other hand don't hunt for victims. They are usually people who lack the empathy to see why abusing animals is wrong (young kids, gang members, etc.). Once they are convited, it is easy to prohibit them from ever owning a pet in the future as part of their release. With that being the case, the purpose of an animal offender registry would be to ensure that even after they are tried, convicted and pay for their crime, the punishment will continue indefinitely.

    We seem to have forgotten that people can do bad things and after being punished, regret their actions. Sex Offender Registries are justifiable due to the high recidivism rate of offenders. They frequently feel a compulsion to commit their crimes. I've never heard of any studies on the recidivism rate of animal abusers, and the absence of any data, find it hard to believe that they feel any compulsion toward their transgressions. Once the abuser has been punished, we need to learn to forgive. If you feel that they haven't paid enough, then change the law to allow for harsher punishment. Don't make it so that they have to go on some registry for the rest of their life for an act that they may have commited while suffering from a temporary laps in judgement, or for somethin they may never do again.

    --
    Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
  76. A registry for /. first poster abuse....? by PensivePeter · · Score: 1

    ...I have nothing to worry about, it doesn't affect me...
    With apologies to Pastor Martin Niemöller

  77. The Good, The Bad, and The Californian by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    When something so off the wall starts getting put together, the irrationalities and contradictions inherent in it make it obvious the problems are severe if not fatal, and it gets shut down. Unfortunately we're talking California where it's weird's job to outdo itself. So how are they going to handle:

    Cruel killing -- we can't have Dr. Kevorkian's assisted suicide for creatures with the ability to make up their own minds and say so, so who's going to speak up for the creatures unable to speak for themselves and protect them from the Death Vet?

    Unbreaking the circle -- my cultural heritage places a high value on maximal participation in the Circle of Life. This means using as much of every animal as possible. I eat meat and wear leather and fur for this reason and expect to have these things available. So when an anti-fur PETA vegan acts to make these less available to me, can I level charges of racism? Better yet, will I be able to use this law to have the activists prosecuted for direct violation for attempting to prevent said creatures from achieving their full potential by being prevented from riding the Circle of Life all the way around?

    Even in California people tend to fall into classifications of 'animal, vegetable, or mineral'. We can talk about getting a rock protection law in bit (igneous is no excuse) but for now, since my kids are definitely animal (in this life at least) if they get abused, will I be able to get the prep listed on this? Likewise, if I catch a dog abusing a cat or a person, can I get them listed? After all if we're going to give them the rights they deserve, shouldn't we also get ours and make sure others get theirs?

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  78. There's an app for that? by DiEx-15 · · Score: 1

    Damn you Steve Jobs!

  79. Animal cruelty indicates psychopathic behavior by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Psychopaths often go on to bigger and better things... Like people.

    memory is only established through repetition.

    Unlike humans of course. Who's memory springs into existence in a magical and unexplained manner. Given by god perhaps.

    These animals are not people. They are food.

    People eat people. People are meat. People are food. It's generally frowned upon in polite society, but people like Jeffrey Dahmer eat people like you. You are food to them.
     

    --
    Deleted
  80. But your crimes are still always a public record. by maillemaker · · Score: 1

    People's crimes, their prosecution, and their punishment are all matters of public record. They always have been, and they should, as the last thing we want is a secret judicial system.

    The difference was pre-internet, it was hard to find this information. Now, it's easy.

    If people judge you because of a past criminal history, well, that's life.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
  81. I think it is a good idea by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    Having dogs myself, I get sickened when I see an obvious neglect for a dog, let alone abuse, I think this would be a good thing, however, it might get used to get back at someone or play pranks, as long as there is a starting of a case, then someone is assigned to go
    observe the environment to see if it is a real case of abuse or not. Sometimes people are neglectful and not on purpose, getting a wake up call with someone declaring them anonymously, is all it takes sometimes to make them realize although dogs are not humans, they are animals that deserve to live as much as we do, and that existence should not be to in a cage 8 hours a day, followed by "go sit in your corner" for the rest of it......seriously.

    I hope that this can help the organizations like the SPCA get better results, however, let's say this does a better job and we take away abused pets more now then before, the SPCA has a policy of putting to sleep dogs after a period of time, and this is not acceptable, we need to also dedicate some resources towards finding a better solution to helping us find good homes for those animals.

  82. What a waste by gryf · · Score: 1
    Glad to hear the state's finally running a surplus again. I'm sure this means they've got their spending priorities under control.

    Please people, regardless of the benefits a /statewide/ animal control registry provides ( on the assumption that CA govt can provide anything effectively ) you have to balance that against maintaining funding for school programs, criminal justice programs ( like State appointed attorneys ), environmental protection programs.

    The state has been in the red for eight years, how can any elected official there justify creating any new program?

    --

    #-#
    Ad Astra Per Aspera
    A rough road leads to the stars
  83. While... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the state let's people go hungry. IMO there are higher priorities of problems...