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US Air Force To Suffer From PS3 Update
tlhIngan writes "The US Air Force, having purchased PS3s for supercomputing research, is now the latest victim of Sony's removal of the Install Other OS feature. It turns out that while their PS3s don't need the firmware update, it will be impossible to replace PS3s that fail. PS3s with the Other OS feature are no longer produced since the Slim was introduced, so replacements will have to come from the existing stock of used PS3s. However, as most gamers have probably updated their PS3s, that used stock is no longer suitable for the USAF's research. In addition, smaller educational clusters using PS3s will share the same fate — unable to replace machines that die in their clusters."
In related news, Sony has been hit with two more lawsuits over this issue.
Bomb them to hell if they don't bring back this feature, vital for national security.
There's been a big push in recent years to move to "COTS" (Commercial Off The Shelf) solutions in the government - the military in particular. And while this may be find for things like holsters, backpacks, and office chairs, I think this highlights for EVERYONE, not just bright young aquisitions officers, that sometimes taking COTS technology and using it for your highly specific and critical application is not the best choice. Unfortunately, sometimes (sometimes!) big, expensive, and proprietary in-house solutions really are the best.
(heh. captcha is 'acquire')
This is a good data point for the research, assuming they are interested in results other than performance, as it will show that a dependency on non replaceable hardware or hardware beyond their control isn't that great in the long run.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
What, the USAF was the only buyer of PS3s, and now suddenly that they can't use them, nobody wants them... the market will be flooded with $0.10 used PS3s nobody can actually use for anything useful.
It turns out that while their PS3s don't need the firmware update, it will be impossible to replace PS3s that fail.
Unless they, y'know, get directly in touch with Sony and tell them what they're trying to do. I'm sure in a case like this that something can be worked out. Instead of actual reporting and checking up on the situation, we instead get people using words like "impossible". There are many things that happen every single day that fall into this same category of "impossible", and yet they happen...
Well they have the bargaining power. Like, if you don't supply us with an OS install feature you better get nervous when you see an aircraft flying towards your headquarters. Or maybe you won't see a thing. Accidents happen you know
Using PS3s for anything, especially non-gaming research applications seemed like a really bad idea in the first place. A game console is nothing but an overpriced, crippled computer. Sure, the multi-core cell processor might be great for some things, but I doubt that they couldn't have found something better for the same price. Plus there is the issue of control. You can only get so far hacking PS3s. And doing so takes a lot of time that could have been spent elsewhere. There is only one vendor who sells PS3s; if they had gone with general purpose x86 computers, they could still get their parts from other manufacturers.
On the side of the USAF, though, Sony's crippling devices after the fact took a lot of people by surprise. Everybody knew that they gave themselves that ability in the TOS (along with everything else), but few would have predicted that they would actually use it.
The Sony PS4 will not come with a Linux option *at all*
The meme is dead, long live the meme!
This will be a good opportunity for the government to see how good hacking/jailbreaking/etc. is, and they can install geohot's fix so they don't lose linux support.
According to those news article dates, they aren't even half way thought the hardware refresh schedule. Looks like this little oversight by project planners is going to cost them. If they don't get sued, the cheapest way coulde be the manpower to break the DMCA and hack the things. Not sure if Sony's license allows you to flash the firmware with an older version. Otherwise, ebay for old models or start looking for replacement hardware. Although, perhaps doing nothing and letting them die out, its a cluster remember, won't have much of an impact beyond RAM and HD problems.
The XBox 360 has already been successfully used for scientific computing. Microsoft should move in for the kill with a modified 360 that includes a complete tool chain and a new clustering API.
The slim PS3s didn't support the Other OS feature from launch, and when they started making the slim models they stopped producing the older ones that did support it. This has been an issue since Sept 2009.
Why no spaces?
In the 90's, when I needed any electronic stuff, I used to look at Sony first. I bought most of my stuff from them, never had any problems, and was always satisfied with the product. Call it the highest level of brand loyalty and customer satisfaction.
Then I fell asleep. I woke up about ten years later.
The Sony I knew then, was suddenly very, very different. Now, Sony will be the last on my list, when I need to make another electronic purchase. I really feel that Sony doesn't give a damn anymore about product quality and customer satisfaction.
Sony rootkiting your PC? Maybe I am still asleep, and having a nightmare . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
"Sony's decision had no immediate impact on the cluster; for obvious reasons, the PS3s are not hooked into the PlayStation Network and don't need Sony's firmware updates. But what happens when a PS3 dies or needs repair? Tough luck."
The PS3 stopped supporting linux installations when they introduced the PS3 slim and stopped making the original one. Why is this even news?
You are a 360 fanboiy and don't even know it sir.
Here are this weeks game sales numbers on a newer games just out on both platforms.
Super Street Fighter IV
PS3 sales: 280,049
X360 sales: 189,897
2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa
PS3 sales:157,589
x360 sales: 112,275
It looks to me like the PS3 is now .destroying. the xbox 360 in terms of game sales. The WII is really a different market and I don't think the xbox or ps3 'lost' to them, the WII just opened up a new untouched market that everyone else wish they had a part of :}
Source http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php?date=40307&boxartz=1#
(The first hit on a google search for game sales)
it's not cheap, nor is it THAT expensive, but they can just send it in to Sony for repair. Sony didn't flash my 60gb when i had repair work done on it...
Interesting....I hadn't seen this.
I'll make sure to do more research in future before opening my mouth ;-)
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
If they want the Cell processor they can always buy IBM BladeCenter servers. You can run Linux on those too.
The IBM iron will cost more, but I'd wager getting Sony to sell them PS/3s that will run Linux will also cost more -- a lot more.
I'd guess that originally they figured they could stretch their budget $$ by using PS/3s, and no doubt they did. But that was then and this is now.
Heck, I can't even get parts for my 1&1/2 year old mountain bike. Fortunately I bought it at REI and they'll let me return it for a full refund and then I can buy a new bike. REI FTW.
anyone who trusts microsoft, sony, apple dig their own grave.
Read radical news here
I think they are the only Sony's clients with tactical nuclear weapons.
makes ya wonder what will happen to the Folding@Home client stats as PS3s die off and aren't replaced.
And who suffers in the end? Sick kids.
Oh, will someone think of the children!
If a branch of the US military wanted updatable PS3's they will be able to get them by paying extra for a large lot. All corporate salesman negotiate. To think otherwise is naive.
Camping on quad since 1996.
Heck, I can't even get parts for my 1&1/2 year old mountain bike. Fortunately I bought it at REI and they'll let me return it for a full refund and then I can buy a new bike. REI FTW.
Just curious. I have had problems sourcing pads for Hayes Sole brakes. Apart from that I am okay so far.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Ebay listing for my non-updated Phat PS3 is forthcoming. Further to the law suits, did Sony steal my online credit? How do I get a refund on my online credit when I can't log in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sony_rootkit
never forget, never forgive
There's been a big push in recent years to move to "COTS" (Commercial Off The Shelf) solutions in the government - the military in particular. And while this may be find for things like holsters, backpacks, and office chairs, I think this highlights for EVERYONE, not just bright young aquisitions officers, that sometimes taking COTS technology and using it for your highly specific and critical application is not the best choice. Unfortunately, sometimes (sometimes!) big, expensive, and proprietary in-house solutions really are the best.
No, what it drives home is that, when you purchase a piece of hardware, it belongs to you, and no vendor should have the legal right to modify what you have purchased without your consent, nor to coerce consent for modifications that reduce or cripple the capabilities of something you have purchased.
Maybe now that military and commercial interests are being impacted, we can get the barest modicum of consumer protection to outlaw this shit (and similar, retroactive software modifications as well, such as Steve Jobs foists upon his hapless iPhone slaves ... it all eventually amounts to the same thing, and puts a lot more than the military at risk).
I know for our trading platforms we would never tolerate this kind of thing from a vendor (and Apple has lost out on this on more than one occasion for exactly this reason). I'm amazed the military hasn't come down on Sony like a ton of bricks -- a large investment bank certainly would have.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I have an idea... Let's make the PS3 useless, then sell a PS4 with the other OS option, when it's time to sell PS5 (to be nicknamed the piss) we will turn off the other OS option in the PS4. We can do this for 50 years before anyone catches on.
The original post had spaces, but they were removed by Sony in a firmware update.
Linux users don't suffer from viruses, I'm using Linux for 3 years without an anti-virus and never had a virus, so whose security is Sony concerned about by removing Linux? Or is it just an excuse to cover up some other reason?
Is there a bigger picture Sony's trying to hide?
You'd have to do this at the hardware level. Are there any JTAG pads on the board? If not, clipping onto the firmware flash chip with the appropriate tool may be necessary. That, or some means to prevent the existing firmware from loading while loading a substitute into RAM, which will then reload the firmware flash.
First to figure this out might get a little military contract :-)
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
theyve got access to the best and the brightest and they cant figure out how to put linux on a ps3 without a specific option to do so.....people have put it on watches for crying out loud
the only issue is the legal one.....get sony to agree to wave the issue but the warranty will be void and voila done
In the grand scheme of things, I have to wonder if the US government and EU are pretty happy with Sony's decision here. While, yes, they'll be force to spend more money on systems to replicate what they were doing with their PS3 clusters, the PS3 clusters in Iran and North Korea will degrade, too.
"Purchased PS3s for supercomputing research". I definitely have to remember this one.
Mostly harmless.
The US Taxpayer will suffer as they use more Mercury and/or IBM systems with Cell BE.
http://www.theonion.com/video/sony-releases-new-stupid-piece-of-shit-that-doesnt,14309/
It's so funny to see little bitch freetards crying about this. Y'all claimed that you were going to boycott Sony over this and that and another thing but here you all sit, crying about losing the PS3 to your OS.
You're liars. All of you liars. If you didn't lie you wouldn't care about Sony giving up on Linux.
CRY BITCHES CRY!!!!!!!!
And fuck Linux. Fuck it.
To a military that buys video game systems for supercomputing rather than spending a bit more talent doing the same work with cheap PC's and nVidia video cards (CUDA, OpenCL or other). Buying a playstation for computing tasks? That's laughably low-rent. And no, I don't care if the Cell processor rocks Folding@Home's socks. It's not a military application.
"Really? You want to play this game? We've already nuked Japan once, did you like it that much?"
Well maybe this will teach the Air Force or whoever else that did something similar not to use a frigging video game console for serious research and scientific work.
Out of curiosity, which brand of bike was this? Was it from their in-house Novara line, or one of their other brands they carry? (I know they carry Scott and Raleigh as well...). And yeah, REI's got some of the best customer service I've ever seen. I buy most of my outdoor gear from them even when they don't have the absolute best price just for the service.
that Sony doesn't like profit. Why else would they remove th second OS. They obviously don't want people using PS3 for non-game use. Therefore they'll stop people from buying them, thereby reducing their profit. Apple of course does the same thing, but ra ra ra Apple.
The air force can MacGyver around this so it's not that bad and what can Sony do I don't trying court / the DMCA will work when it's the air force.
Serves Sony completely right to get sued over and over again, and angry military forces is going to be nice!
Companies doing the shit like Sony just did deserves this happening, all too rarely anyone does anything about it, as a single unit is so worthless but it's about damn time at least one company is ending up paying for this kind of bullshit.
Pulsed Media Seedboxes
Yes, it's a Novara.
So if the old adage that it takes forever to sue the government holds true, would the government threatening to sue Sony work? Or worse, some kind of import ban, regulation banning the purchase of Sony products for government use, or tariffs on electronics made outside of the US may do something to wake them up.
However it plays out, in something like "The United States Government vs. Sony" could wind up to be bad news for Sony. They don't have B-2 bombers or the kind of people (politicians and celebrities) that can come out and say stuff like "Buying Sony products cripples America's Defense. Do you support companies that cripple the U.S. Military? Here is a list of companies who have attempted to cripple our national defense with their products..." show that with images of US soldiers around the world...
Yeah, Sony would bleed money.
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
and there is money to be made in repair of these systems..
... I'll have a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster with a side of Plutonium Nyborg
OMG........Please mod parent up!
Thanks - makes me feel a little better, I have a Scott Genius dual suspension from around the same era. Its kind of odd though - Novara bikes generally have a good reputation.
You'd think the geniuses at Sony would offer an alternative version of the PS3 specifically for research applications. They're delivered as a blank slate for whatever OS the user wants to install. It seems to me like Sony is just throwing money away here.
Summary says they were using preowned fat ps3 systems as replacements. Now almost all preowned fat ps3s have their fw updated. See the problem?
You know they do sell replacement keyboards. Some of them even come with a space key.
I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
Ship the thing so it can't play games, but has a decent amount of memory. Sell it at full retail, with a nice margin built in. You should be able to sell them for $500 a pop and make money. Don't be stupid (yeah, I know, it's Sony), take advantage of the market you helped to create.
Who am I kidding? You'll go back to breaking shit people bought in good faith. What a bunch of morons.
We can bet that the air force will rely on circumventing this forced upgrade and will hack their consoles into processing machines once again. The only downside to this approach is that they will become suable by Sony once the ACTA is pushed through. Maybe we can look forward to the Air Force fighting against the ACTA?
Seriously after the latest final fantasy I gave up on the PS3.
Let me state that again. It's a game machine. It's not a mature server platform. When you buy game machines you cannot expect server level support. I really don't see what the issue is. If people really thought that a secondary feature of a game machine, that is, the ability to install and run your own OS, makes the PS3 a server platform, then they are delusional.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
that is, I fail to comprehend. Sony could turn around and sell unlocked machines as "specialized platforms" for many times the price, while imposing restrictive usage conditions, and *still* have it be a bargain. Considering how much the PS3 sales cost them, you'd think they would jump on the opportunity.
Buy a kindle? Have YOUR PAID FOR books removed at amazons will.
Not Amazon's will, the publisher's will. And they at least refunded your money.
Sony hasn't returned a dime.
Buy an apple product?
Again, to be fair, Apple never promised more than people are getting. Also, as far as I know, they haven't actually killed any purchased applications -- they'll remove it from the store, but not from your device. (Though, point against Apple: If I recall, the "I Am Rich" guy was never paid.)
Sony not only sold the PS3 with this feature enabled, they advertised it. "You're not just buying a game console, you're buying a powerful computer system!"
If sony's terms of service said something about taking away features at their own will, it is not a valid part of the contract. Here in america, we have laws that prevent mega-corporations from making insanely complicated contracts and inserting clauses about how they own your soul and can harvest your body parts whenever they please.
Do we really? Because it seems more like we have the opposite. Just look at the tax code -- seems almost deliberately designed to force the average person to have to hire someone to understand it. If it wasn't insanely complicated, H&R block wouldn't have to exist.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I think this might be overly hyped, at least in the USAF's case, too much. I seriously have my doubts that Sony PHYSICALLY could not supply them with units to replace their broken machines (meaning fat PS3s). It would be amazing to me that Sony does not have the equipment to, and would not agree to, simply "revert" the OS for replacing and units that are to be supplied as replacements for the military cluster. This isn't Joe Smith from Anytown, USA, that we are talking about here. A major buyer, such as the US government, would surely get special treatment. Granted, I have no proof to back this up, but it seems highly logical.
Since when does Sony give a rats ass about any user? Hopefully the government might think and buy from an american company next time. If one doesn't exist to suit, then make one
It's not that the USAF can't buy new PS3's to repair systems that have failed. The new problem is that if they send failed units to Sony to get repaired, the repaired units will have the latest firmware installed when they're shipped back, i.e. Sony will "repair" PS3s by removing the "Other OS" feature (to the tune of about $150).
TFA (emphasis mine):
A supercomputer research lab that doesn't have any decent geek employed.
Why do people overreact so often to stuff like this? Seriously, it's made pretty clear that the Other OS functionality will be gone when you run the update. They even have a separate notice from the usual EULA, just to make sure you know! I wouldn't know for certain, but I think it's also made clear when buying a new PS3 that there will be no Other OS option. As for the military problem, they can probably still buy up used PS3s and flash them with older firmware, so it's mostly a non-issue.
Sony found out that the Other OS feature was being used for illegal purposes, so they got rid of it. I see nothing wrong with that. Besides, how many of you actually USED the Other OS? I doubt many people have ever considered it their primary reason for buying the PS3, except (obviously) the military, who I bet could solve the problem relatively easily (and legally too!). I'd never even heard of it until they removed it. Everyone keeps getting so angry about the removal of a feature that I bet most of them never used. And, once again, it's not like it was removed without your knowledge.
Are you defending capitalism, or corporatism? In the U.S., consumers are 70% of the economy. Yet the politicians are accommodating the 30% who have the money to buy elections. Short answer to your question - yes, more and more people are hating the excessive intrusion that capitalists are imposing on their lives.
When that 30% is restored to its proper role, the complaining will surely die down. Capitalism will replace corporatism and everybody will prosper.
Best regards.
According to Engadget,
Geohot promised a workaround for Sony's removal of the "install other OS" feature in PS3 firmware 3.21 and now Geohot has delivered...Geohot even says that the custom firmware might actually enable the other OS feature on the PS3 Slim, but he hasn't yet had a chance to try it out.
Okay, Airforce, here's your strategy:
1) Hire Hotz (Geohot), have him make the OtherOS feature work on PS3 slim hardware, and then
2) buy a few extra units to safeguard against Sony throwing another firmware/hardware update into the mix.
As a bonus prize you make a bunch of geeky hardware/software -hacker-types pleased with what you're funding, and goodness knows that you're always looking to recruit geeks for your cyber warfare divisions.
coding is life
NAME:
Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
BBB MEMBER:
NO
CONTACT:
Ms. Cynthia Woodman
ADDRESS:
919 E Hillsdale Blvd 2nd Floor
Foster City, CA 94404-4247
PHONE:
800 345-7669
FAX:
650 655-7350
Complaint - The Playstation 3 console was advertised and is continued to advertise it ability to install Linux and an "Other O/S". In a recent firmware update to the Playstation 3, this feature was removed from consoles after purchase, if the update is applied. If a user decided to not apply the update, they are forbidden from logging into the "Playstation Network". In the "Playstation Network", users can spend money on games, if the player does not log into the "Playstation Network" they cannot access content they have paid for.
This leaves users with the choice of using an advertised feature they paid for, or using content they paid for. There is no option to do both.
Response - We understand that this complaint concerns the PlayStation®3 ("PS3") System Software Update Version 3.21 released on April 1, 2010. Among other things, Update Version 3.21, if downloaded by a user, would delete the "install Other OS" option previously available on some PS3 systems. To protect the intellectual property of the content offered on the PS3 system, as well as to provide a more secure system for those users who are enjoying games and other entertainment content on the PS3 system, the "install Other OS" feature was deleted to address security vulnerability. The update is optional and users can continue to use the "install Other OS" feature, but if a user chooses not to upgrade the system, some other features will no longer be available, including online access to the PlayStation® Network and the ability to play PS3 format software or Blu-Ray Disc videos that require System Software Version 3.21 or later. Update Version 3.21 is authorized by and consistent with the Terms of Service and User Agreement for the PlayStation® Network, as well as the System Software License Agreement for the PS3 System. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
My response to their response - They are using a non-enforceable End User License Agreement, also known as a Contracts of Adhesion, to assert they have the right to dictate how I use a piece of electronics that I legally purchased. Said License Agreement is only made known after purchase. They also assert the right to do anything they wish to said electronics.
http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html
Waiting for their counter-response
GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
You're misrepresenting the trend, while PS3 has caught up with the 360 in the sale of some games, it has in no was surpassed the xbox 360 in all areas.
Examples Include (using the same site as you, vgcharts.com):
CoD:MW2
PS3 sales:7.82m
x360 sales: 10.69m
BF:BC2
PS3 sales:1.40m
x360 sales: 2.05m
NBA 2K10
PS3 sales:0.64m
x360 sales: 0.75m
Major League Baseball 2K10
PS3 sales:0.64m
x360 sales:0.06m
Just Cause 2
PS3 sales:0.40m
x360 sales:0.42m
As you can see, PS3 is in no way "destroying" the xbox 360 in terms of game sales.
I'm sorry, but I cannot blame Sony for removing the feature.
Then blame them for putting it in there in the first place.
Any vendor that sells loss-leading goods like that has to be careful not to make their products too useful in ways that don't earn them back their loss (see: CueCat, among others). Free OtherOS support is fundamentally a feature that undermined their own business model and was obviously going to bite them, all the more so when they lost so much on each unit.
They crippled it somewhat (e.g. no access to GPU) to reduce the attractiveness, but they should have simply charged a little extra to unlock the feature (to cover the loss plus a modest profit), like they did with the PS2's Linux HDD add-on. Less security concerns, and less money lost inadvertently subsidising universities and the military.
Doubtless the whole thing was one of Krazy Ken Kutaragi's brilliant ideas; engineering for engineering's sake.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
http://hackaday.com/2010/05/11/ps3-patch-allows-linux-installation/
If you buy consumer electronics and shoehorn it into doing something like this you can't exactly complain when the supply of spare parts dries up.
This is what happens when you go for the cheapest option. IBM sell blades with dual Cell chips on them. Yes, they're more expensive than a bunch of PS3's, but then they're designed for these sorts of applications and the Cell chips on them are actually better than the version in the PS3 - two extra SPU's available, more memory available and double-precision floating point.
the mighty US warmachine does not have a way to work this out with Sony for the specific consoles involved ? seems very unlikely (if this madness continues they might end up sony's only customer so Sony might do well to take care of them)
beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
Buy a hardware from Linux Vendors ONLY. You can always install Windows, Mac OSX, whatever, however if you lock your self into hardware that is planned to be obsolete, well you get what you pay for, not...you actually paid more, fools.
I remember when they use to say, no one ever got fired for buying IBM.
I also remember when they use to say, no one ever got fired for buying Microsoft.
The fact is, if the hardware will run Linux, it will run Windows and probably Mac OS/X (technically just another Linux/Unix distro). However the opposite can not be stated as fact.
If you buy a Windows Computer or a MacIntosh computer, there very will may be components (BIOS, Graphics Processing Unit, chips that control sound, ...) that will NOT run in Linux.
So now this is true for the Sony PS3 now...why is anyone surprised.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish...over and over and over and over again.
If your hardware runs Linux on day 1, it will run Linux 10 years from that day.
Be smart buy from either ZaReason or System 76. and ugh if you must, install Windows, at least down the road the hardware can be used for something constructive...say a DVD recorder on steroids, specialized firewall/router, home file server or a Home Controller or a game station.
Its ALWAYS smart to have options. Remember if you do NOT have at least THREE choices, you have no choice!