Steve Jobs Says PC Folks' World Is Slipping Away

Sounds to me... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 13:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sounds to me like Jobs just got trolled hard. 10/10 for Ryan Tate.

Re:Sounds to me... by tomhudson · 2010-05-15 13:29 · Score: 4, Funny

> "Sounds to me like Jobs just got trolled hard."
"There's an App for that ..."
"Your App has been rejected by the Apple Store. Because we said so!"
Re:Sounds to me... by Peach+Rings · 2010-05-15 13:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sounds to me like Steve Jobs answered some random person's critical comments immediately on a Friday night. Obviously everything that comes out of his mouth is garbage, but damn that is someone who cares about their product.
Re:Sounds to me... by sopssa · 2010-05-15 14:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

Well, it's from a person who said porn and sex is a bad thing. It's no wonder he had nothing more fun to do on a friday night.
Re:Sounds to me... by sayfawa · 2010-05-15 14:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

How do we know it was him? I've heard a few of these stories about emails from Jobs. Too many to believe, IMO. I'm sitting at home on a Saturday night getting drunk and playing old fps games with my intel graphics and posting on /., and even I don't have time to answer all the emails I get... Just sayin'.

--
Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
Re:Sounds to me... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 15:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

Seriously, there is one fantastic quote here from Steve Jobs that he replied to someone who *dared* to criticize him:

what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?
What a complete asshole who thinks he's so much better than everyone else.
Re:Sounds to me... by tomhudson · 2010-05-15 15:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

It was a low blow ... he seems to forget that he got his good stuff from Xerox, and then got a real operating system from BSD.
Re:Sounds to me... by BrokenHalo · 2010-05-15 15:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

Do you honestly believe Steve Jobs would let some underling represent themselves as him and write replies which, most likely, will end up being heavily viewed and analyzed?

And let's face it, he isn't saying anything here that he hasn't said in other words before. And in his defence (which is something I rarely do), most of his points are fair enough in themselves. The trouble is, when you put them all together, and embody them in an agressive, bullying corporate policy, they morph into something very ugly.
Re:Sounds to me... by node+3 · 2010-05-15 16:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

Well, it's from a person who said porn and sex is a bad thing.
Where did he ever say sex was bad?
Re:Sounds to me... by node+3 · 2010-05-15 16:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

Seriously, there is one fantastic quote here from Steve Jobs that he replied to someone who *dared* to criticize him:

what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?
What a complete asshole who thinks he's so much better than everyone else.
His point was that talk is cheap, what's important is what you've managed to do. See the critic's criticism from Ratatouille for elaboration.
Of course this is Slashdot, the very definition of all talk and no action, so...
Re:Sounds to me... by westlake · 2010-05-15 16:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

It was a low blow ... he seems to forget that he got his good stuff from Xerox, and then got a real operating system from BSD.
Recognizing "the good stuff" when you see it is rare. Transforming ideas into marketable products rarer still.
Re:Sounds to me... by Teufelsmuhle · 2010-05-15 17:38 · Score: 3, Informative

Jobs didn't design those products, he merely oversaw those who did. Jonathan Ives (amongst others) deserves much of the design credit. And Ives got most of his design ideas from Dieter Rams, who's designs date back to the 50's. Apple's done very little truly unique over the years -- their primary accomplishments are in marketing.
Re:Sounds to me... by bzipitidoo · 2010-05-15 18:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

What I find so disappointing about Jobs is not anything about him really. It's that the public doesn't value freedom enough to tell him where to stick his proprietary lockdown schemes. It's really amazing how an excellent UI is so valuable to quite a lot of people that they'll pay much higher prices, and blow off the overreaching fine print that infringes on our rights. Maybe they're right about EULAs not being worth even a quick look, and ignoring EULAs is the best way to handle them.
At least no DRM encumbered music format has gained traction. Shows that people do have limits. I'm sure Apple would push a DRMed format if they could get their customers to accept it.

--
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
Re:Sounds to me... by somersault · 2010-05-15 19:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

The unique thing that Apple did was actually bring design into the world of computing, it doesn't matter whether the designs were "new" or not (aside from the fact that there is very little new in the world of fashion and art either).
I think it's good that other companies are being forced to put some effort into UI design and styling to stop Apple pulling ahead. I don't like Apple much these days but they certainly are good for the market.

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which is totally what she said
Re:Sounds to me... by somersault · 2010-05-15 19:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm sure Apple would push a DRMed format if they could get their customers to accept it.
They already did, for several years..

It's really amazing how an excellent UI is so valuable to quite a lot of people that they'll pay much higher prices
It's not that amazing. I grew up with Macs so I didn't think of Macs as an excellent UI so much as I just thought of Windows as shit. Mac OS is decent though I prefer Linux for the abundance of customisation options. Anyway, how an OS "feels" is important. To me Mac OS always gave a feeling of sturdiness while Windows just seems really flaky. I think some of that stems to the way it redraws Windows, IIRC even in Windows 7 there is tearing if you move a window around too fast. The other part is probably that I grew up with Amigas which had decent multitasking so that even if the CPU was maxxed out doing something, you could still move the mouse around and it all "felt" responsive. With Windows that simply isn't the case..

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which is totally what she said
Re:Sounds to me... by fyngyrz · 2010-05-15 20:09 · Score: 4, Interesting
It's really amazing how an excellent UI is so valuable to quite a lot of people that they'll pay much higher prices, and blow off the overreaching fine print that infringes on our rights.
- Excellent UI
- Excellent hardware
- Excellent (and easily used) software
- It really does "just work" right out of the box
- iPod ditto
- iPad ditto
I find Jobs to be the exact wrong person to exert his idea of morals and ethics upon the morals and ethics of his customers. His cry of "you'd understand if you had kids" is just the kind of moronic posturing I'd expect... the Apple store is chock full of blood and gore, but sex, one of the most wonderful things we get to involve ourselves in, is "bad." This is how I *know* that Jobs is possessed of absolutely bankrupt morals and ethics, and why I don't think he belongs between myself, or my children, and content of any type.
However, he is the exact right person to nail down hardware and software guidelines. How do I know? I run Linux, Windows and OS X. OS X is - by *huge margins* - the best of the three to use day in, day out.
So hey, Steve: If you were half the man you think you are, you'd pull the violence from the apple store and put sex in. But you're not. You're a posturing idiot who is playing the social game for sales, tapping the social retards who love violence and wave their little religious hands over there eyes at the sight of sex. Congratulations, chump. Stick to areas you have skill in: hardware and software design.
Not content.
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I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Re:Sounds to me... by MCSEBear · 2010-05-15 20:51 · Score: 4, Informative

It's pretty obvious that you've never actually seen video of a Xerox Alto in action, or you wouldn't claim the Mac interface was a copy of the Alto. The two are very different.

It's also very obvious that you aren't aware that Douglas Engelbart at the Stanford Research Institute, not Xerox, invented the mouse and the windowed user interface as part of a system known as NLS . (NLS was also the first system with: bit-mapped displays, remote procedure calls, collaboration software, hypertext, remote graphical access, the chording keyboard, presentation software, and others)

The unveiling of NLS to computer scientists in 1968 is referred to as the Mother of All Demos.

See for yourself.
Re:Sounds to me... by somersault · 2010-05-15 21:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Okay, so I've decided to feed the troll.

WTF is it that allows some of the most argumentative assholes on the web just overlook the one simple fact that Apple is really shitty at putting together a UI?
You could at least provide some examples here btw (beyond a lame joke that has no relevance - a dial is fine for scrolling through a list, but obviously a general purpose laptop needs a more general purpose input system) if you want to distinguish yourself from those you are criticising. Apple's UI accomplishments over the years are obvious, but I guess I'll have to list a few since you are so used to a post-Apple world that you don't realise what they've done.
They were (one of) the pioneers of graphical interfaces in the 80s, and it took until Windows 95 for Windows to come anywhere near Mac OS (but it was still awful). These days there's less space for refinement in 2D graphical interfaces, but for one thing I loved the OSX dock so much that I installed a dock in Linux - and MS must have loved it too because they modified the task bar in Win7 to function in a very dock-like fashion. Now think of how shitty MP3 players and phones were before the iPod and iPhone.
I've never owned an iProduct, but I'd always thought that smartphone interfaces were shit. The fact that Windows Mobile was the best smartphone OS out there for a while really says something about how awful everything was (and it's still not great, but it's better), considering how unresponsive and non-finger-friendly it was (I quickly grew to simply using my fingers to interact with my touchphones even when I had a stylus right in the corner of the phone, though it was very awkward sometimes trying to hit a 2mm "ok" button with the tip of your nail). But now all the other phone makers are actually starting to get that response time and usability are important (well, they probably always knew this but since there was little competition going on they didn't put any effort into it, all of them content to wallow in mediocrity because they were raking in plenty of cash already), and that if they don't do something then they are going to disappear into obscurity.
Apple have really driven UI design in several ways over the years. It's not being argumentative to say that, it's argumentative to try and deny it.

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which is totally what she said
Re:Sounds to me... by PastaLover · 2010-05-15 21:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

His point was that talk is cheap, what's important is what you've managed to do. See the critic's criticism from Ratatouille for elaboration.
Of course this is Slashdot, the very definition of all talk and no action, so...
This is from the same school of thought that thinks we can't criticize what went on in Vietnam because we "haven't been there". It's just another form of the ad hominem.
Re:Sounds to me... by Dystopian+Rebel · 2010-05-15 22:15 · Score: 2, Funny

How do we know it was him?

He confirmed it to me by e-mail today at 01:18 EST.
The trick, you see, is to e-mail Mr Jobs at the end of the week sometime between midnight and 02:00.
His personal assistants have long passed out from being driven to exhaustion. He's a little tired himself after a week of turning the crushed egos of virgin flunkies into Magical Devices. He forgets that he is the Willy Wonka Of Technology (TM) and the Greatest Living Proponent Of The Turtleneck (TM) and that I am a worthless middle-aged code monkey with debts, a family, a 12 year old Volvo that I call the Swedish Hooker, and a 15 year old bicycle that I use most of the time because I can't afford to ride the Swedish Hooker.
I ask him questions about various things such as home maintenance, tax deductions, and how to cook for four people on a shoestring budget. He always answers.

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Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Re:Sounds to me... by ChienAndalu · 2010-05-15 22:54 · Score: 2, Informative

He didn't even say porn is a bad thing. He said porn in his app store is a bad thing.
Re:Sounds to me... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2010-05-15 23:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Recognizing "the good stuff" when you see it is rare. Transforming ideas into marketable products rarer still."
Actually, the stuff in Xerox Labs was so good that *everybody* recognized it as such, including, say, Niklaus Wirth, who after having visited PARC did more or less the same - started building similar computers and OSes, perhaps only slightly more resource-efficient, in line with his preference for small but clever systems :-). The only ones who didn't were, sadly, Xerox executives - but that was all it took.

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:Sounds to me... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2010-05-15 23:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

His point was that talk is cheap, what's important is what you've managed to do. See the critic's criticism from Ratatouille for elaboration.
Most people can recognize stale bread without being bakers themselves.

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:Sounds to me... by Narpak · 2010-05-16 00:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

I don't think he belongs between myself, or my children, and content of any type.

Precisely. Steve Jobs should refrain from trying to enforce his own moral codex upon the technology. I understand that it is "his product" to do with as he will, but I prefer to get my hardware and software without a lecture about what I should or shouldn't read, watch and/or play. A service mechanic that helped making adult material only available to adults is fine, but outright censorship because he "feels it is wrong" I do not agree with.

While the current "PC world" might slip away with time, as everything does inevitably, there is little doubt that computers in various ways and forms will be with us for the predictable future. They might not all be PCs as we understand them today, but neither do I think it will all be apple products.

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The Long Now Foundation
Re:Sounds to me... by Narpak · 2010-05-16 00:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

While talk is cheap and action speak louder than words, I will maintain that it is perfectly fine to criticize (preferably in a rational manner) despite ones previous accomplishments or lack thereof. Debate in various forms is by nature an engagement using words and arguments. Trying to invalidate someone's opinions and arguments by attacking their related or unrelated personal achievements seems sidetracking from the relevant topics in question. Of course sometimes criticism is so inane that the fiery curse of the nerdrage starts taking hold, but I feel that someone as experienced as mister Jobs should know better than to lash out.

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The Long Now Foundation
Re:Sounds to me... by dogmatixpsych · 2010-05-16 00:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's a fallacy to argue for blatant sex or sexual apps just because there are violent apps. Sex is wonderful but porn is a distortion of sex. It is a commercialization and twisting of something good. Just because sex is good does not make porn good - Steve Jobs was not commenting about sex, he was commenting about porn (not all sex in media is porn but again, the issue is porn, not sex - this distinction is not just semantics). You have no leg to stand on if you argue that porn is good but violence is bad.

The only logical solution to your argument is to both pull the violence and keep the porn out. You might not see anything wrong with porn but many of us do. Someone else might see nothing wrong with violence but you clearly do. So, we should just take it all out, not switch out the violence for sex (porn). See, that's logic. :)
Re:Sounds to me... by drinkypoo · 2010-05-16 00:57 · Score: 2, Informative

Apple's UI accomplishments over the years are obvious, but I guess I'll have to list a few since you are so used to a post-Apple world that you don't realise what they've done.
good luck.

They were (one of) the pioneers of graphical interfaces in the 80s, and it took until Windows 95 for Windows to come anywhere near Mac OS (but it was still awful).
Apple still forces you to resize windows from the lower-right corner. When I tried to install the hack to get around this, it didn't work, and lots of people have complained about the hack tool making your system unstable anyway. Forcing the user to do things Steve's way is not a benefit to the user. In terms of learning curve, their interfaces are slightly ahead. In terms of productivity, their interfaces are years behind. They took NeXTStep's dock and ruined its defaults for prettiness instead of muscle memory, for example. And you have to move the mouse farther (and on a large display, actually refocus your eyes) to use the single menu bar. And until OSX, Apple didn't even have minimize/maximize, instead using the same multifinder approach they've been using (annoyingly) for years.

Apple have really driven UI design in several ways over the years. It's not being argumentative to say that, it's argumentative to try and deny it.
I'm still waiting for you to "list a few". So far you've listed zero. How did you get 5, Insightful? Oh yeah, Apple fanboys with modpoints. All you did in your comment was praise Apple with no examples.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Sounds to me... by MCSEBear · 2010-05-16 02:21 · Score: 5, Informative

Xerox PARC was certainly responsible for many innovations, nobody can deny that. However, claims that Xerox single handedly invented the WIMP interface (Windows, Icons, Pointer, Menus) and that Apple copied that interface exactly as created by Xerox are simply incorrect.

Englebart's NLS created the first implementation of Windows, and of using a Pointer to access Menus. The only addition made by Xerox PARC was the addition of Icons. NLS had bitmapped WYSIWYG graphics, but did not come up with the idea of using Icons to represent commands, using text based menus instead.

Here is a bit of Alto History for you:

The Alto was first conceptualized in 1972 in a memo written by Butler Lampson, inspired by the On-Line System (NLS) developed by Douglas Engelbart at SRI, and was designed primarily by Chuck Thacker.
Going back farther, NLS was inspired by work done by Ivan Sutherland who created a program called Sketchpad as his Ph.D thesis.

Sketchpad:

is considered to be the ancestor of modern computer-aided drafting (CAD) programs as well as a major breakthrough in the development of computer graphics in general. For example, the Graphic User Interface was derived from the Sketchpad as well as modern object oriented programming. Ivan Sutherland demonstrated with it that computer graphics could be used for both artistic and technical purposes in addition to showing a novel method of human-computer interaction.
Some video of Sketchpad in action is available online. (Jump to the four minute mark.)

Going back still farther, Everyone I've mentioned points back to an article by Vannevar Bush published in 1945 describing an imaginary personal computer called the Memex as a huge inspiration.

The Memex (a portmanteau of "memory" and "index", like Rolodex an earlier index portmanteau common at the time) is the name given by Vannevar Bush to the theoretical proto-hypertext computer system he proposed in his 1945 The Atlantic Monthly article As We May Think. The memex is a device in which an individual compresses and stores all of their books, records, and communications which is then mechanized so that it may be consulted with exceeding speed and flexibility. A document can be given a simple numerical code that allows the user to access it after dialing the number combination. Documents are also able to be edited in real-time. This process makes annotation fast and simple. The memex is an enlarged intimate supplement to one's memory.
To sum things up...

Ivan Sutherland's Sketchpad was inspired by Vannevar Bush's idea of the Memex.

Douglas Engelbart at SRI was inspired by Sutherland's Sketchpad when he created NLS.

Xerox was inspired by NLS when they created Alto.

Apple was inspired by Alto when they created Lisa and Macintosh.

None of these was a direct copy of the other. Learn some history, and STAY OFF MY LAWN!

(BTW - Neither Alto nor Macintosh were written in an object oriented programming language.)
Re:Sounds to me... by boxwood · 2010-05-16 02:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'd say Mac OSX has shitty UI. The dock is just kludging together the taskbar concept from windows, the quicklaunch bar and the notification area into one big The problem is it doesn't do any of those very well. When I click an icon on the dock, I don't know if I'm clicking on a task or a launcher. Well I guess there's a little dot beside the icon when its a task, but that just indicates the app is loaded, not that I've had it open... many of those dots are there because MacOS decided to start that app at boot.
If you have more than one window open in a single app, There's no easy way to switch between them. I can right-click on the icon and select on, or press F9 and use expose. Expose, while it looks cool, is bad UI because it requires me to watch an animation, look at all the windows and pick out the one I want. When you use expose the windows are always in a different spot so you have to re-orient yourself everytime you use it. With a real taskbar, the button for your window is always in the same location.
If I want to open a new window for an app, I have to check for a tiny dot. If there isn't one then just click the icon on the dock. If there is a dot, then I have to right-click and select new window. If I happen to not notice the dot and just click on the icon, I get the window I had open before. FAIL.
I guess you're not supposed to have more than one window open for a single app in MacOS. except if you want to move a file to a different folder you have to have two finder windows open because MacOSX doesn't allow you to cut and paste files. Odlly copy and paste works ok, just not cut and paste. Very inconsistent.
The problem with the MacOSX UI is its constantly working against itself. You need to right-click more often in MacOSX than any other OS but apple seems to discourage right-clicking by providing single button mouses and having only one button on their laptops. Yeah you can buy another mouse or do a two-finger click but it seems like apple doesn't want you to use one button on the hardware side but makes you use two button on the software side. The dock makes it difficult to manage an application that has more than one window open, so it discourages you from having multiple windows open for a single app, but finder requires you to have two windows open to move files.
My experieince with MacOSX in general is that if you do things the way Steve Jobs thinks you should be doing things, everything works fine. But if you stray from that path, everything becomes unnecessarily difficult. The Apple slogan shouldn't be "think different" it should be "think like steve jobs".
Posting this from Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro. I tried MacOSX for three months and then had to install an OS that makes sense.
Re:Sounds to me... by Alphathon · 2010-05-16 02:45 · Score: 2, Insightful
It's really amazing how an excellent UI is so valuable to quite a lot of people that they'll pay much higher prices, and blow off the overreaching fine print that infringes on our rights.
- Excellent UI
- Excellent hardware
- Excellent (and easily used) software
- It really does "just work" right out of the box
- iPod ditto
- iPad ditto
I'm not sure I'd agree with any of that. Sure it's pretty, but I dislike the UI of OS X and find it has quite a few fundamental flaws. My main OS is Windows 7 but I do use OS X quite regularly (almost daily - at least 4-5 days a week). I have used Linux, running both KDE and Gnome (although I haven't used Gnome in quite some time) and both seemed more intuitive than OS X. When talking about computers, the hardware is no more excellent than many PCs which cost significantly less. The only real difference there is the chassis, which are admittedly pretty, but not even close to worth the price of entry...and there are pretty PCs out there as well. I do NOT think they have excellent software, as a general rule anyway. Final Cut Pro is good, but for most other uses Macs rely on 3rd party software, be it Adobe for Photoshop, Microsoft for Office etc, which is no different or better on Windows. iTunes is pretty bad really (does the job, but it's not great), Safari is beaten by Chrome, Firefox and Opera (IMHO...but numbers wise at the very least Chrome beats it). It doesn't in my experience "just work" out of the box any better than Windows (certainly better than Linux though, but that's partly to do with the target demographic). As for the iPod and iPad (I assume iPhone is included in there somewhere) I find the UI acceptable, but far too simplistic (mainly due to the intentional lack of functionality) the hardware, especially on the iPhone, is poor by comparison to other smart phones and again most of the software is 3rd party.

However, he is the exact right person to nail down hardware and software guidelines. How do I know? I run Linux, Windows and OS X. OS X is - by *huge margins* - the best of the three to use day in, day out.
So what you're saying here is you prefer OS X, therefore Steve Jobs is the right person dictate hardware and software to the industry? As for "OS X is - by *huge margins* - the best of the three to use day in, day out.", I think what you actually mean is OS X is - by *huge margins* - the best of the three to use day in, day out FOR ME . It's only the best if you like it more and no-one can say definitively "This one is the best".
Re:Sounds to me... by Risen888 · 2010-05-16 04:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

You could at least provide some examples here
Oh God, I thought you'd never ask. Not the OP, but let me play! Just a quick Top 4 here, because I could really go on forever but I'd like to read the rest of the thread.
1. The ungodly top bar on OSX. Self-morphing UI elements are a Bad Thing. How this abomination has survived so long is totally beyond me, but I think it has something to do with that shitty hack called...
2. The dock. The idea that "it shouldn't matter whether or not the application's running or how many instances of this application are running" is bullshit. Just because Microsoft parroted it doesn't make it good. (Christ, if anything, MS took the worst of it.) There's plenty of room for innovation in 2D interfaces. Take a look at Gnome Shell (I'm not huge on it, but I'm not huge on Gnome) or the Plasma Netbook interface (which I am an enormous fan of). Plenty of room for new ideas. Doesn't change the fact that the dock was a shitty one.
3. The wheel interface is still dumb. If I have to take the mp3 player out of my pocket to know what I'm doing, that's a big fat fail.
4. Okay, I was just gonna do three, but here's a bonus: the iTunes database. Apple fanboys can pretend all they want that "normal users don't care where on the hard drive their music files are." But they know they're lying. Every time I have ever brought this up to an iTunes user, they've agreed with me. "Yeah, I've always hated that too, but what are you gonna do?" as if it were some kind of law of nature.

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Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
Re:Sounds to me... by vijayiyer · 2010-05-16 04:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

By your logic, all Linus Torvalds did was market a repackaged UNIX. Maybe you should try looking deeper.
Re:Sounds to me... by mfnickster · 2010-05-16 04:55 · Score: 2, Informative

When I click an icon on the dock, I don't know if I'm clicking on a task or a launcher.
...Well I guess there's a little dot beside the icon when its a task
You said it yourself... the dot tells you whether it's running or not. Is that difficult to understand?

but that just indicates the app is loaded, not that I've had it open...
Not sure what you mean here by "had it open" - maybe you mean it stays there after you quit the program? Try right-clicking (or Ctrl-left-clicking) the program when it's running and select "Keep in Dock"

many of those dots are there because MacOS decided to start that app at boot.
No, the OS only launches Finder at boot unless you add programs to your startup preferences. Right-click the program in the Dock and choose "Open at Login."

If you have more than one window open in a single app, There's no easy way to switch between them.
Command-~ (tilde) or use the "Window" menu. Most apps support this. Some used tabbed windows or a "set of pages" format like Preview. Try the arrow keys or page-up and page-down.

When you use expose the windows are always in a different spot so you have to re-orient yourself everytime you use it. With a real taskbar, the button for your window is always in the same location.
Try it the old-fashioned way, use Command-tab to switch to the program you want. Then use Command-~ to switch to the window you want or click the Window menu, which also has a "Bring all to front" command.

If I want to open a new window for an app, I have to check for a tiny dot. If there isn't one then just click the icon on the dock. If there is a dot, then I have to right-click and select new window.
Command-tab to the app, then Command-N to get a new window. Easy and quick.

I guess you're not supposed to have more than one window open for a single app in MacOS.
Almost every Mac app supports multiple windows open at once, which is why the Dock isn't littered with window items like in Windows. Recently iLife apps like iMovie and Garage Band have moved away from this standard, allowing only one project open at a time (and quits if you have none open) which really really bugs me as a long-time Mac user. Also bugs me that Windows apps quit when you close the last window. They pretty much have to because the app menus are tied to the windows, unlike on the Mac.

...except if you want to move a file to a different folder you have to have two finder windows open because MacOSX doesn't allow you to cut and paste files.
True, you can't cut and paste, but drag and drop is not hard. If you make a shortcut to the destination folder in the Sidebar or Dock, it's even easier.

You need to right-click more often in MacOSX than any other OS
No, you don't, if you know what you're doing.

The dock makes it difficult to manage an application that has more than one window open, so it discourages you from having multiple windows open for a single app
The Dock is not for managing windows. That's why they introduced Expose and Spaces, but as I said you can still do it the old-fashioned way with Command-tab and Command-tilde.

My experieince with MacOSX in general is that if you do things the way Steve Jobs thinks you should be doing things, everything works fine. But if you stray from that path, everything becomes unnecessarily difficult. The Apple slogan shouldn't be "think different" it should be "think like steve jobs".
Be fair here - EVERY operating system makes you do things the way the designers think. It's different from Windows and Linux, but I find Mac OS much more ple

--
"Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
Re:Sounds to me... by BasilBrush · 2010-05-16 06:08 · Score: 5, Interesting

Apple still forces you to resize windows from the lower-right corner.
And the cost of being able to resize from any edge in Ubuntu for example? The need to have a fugly border all the way around every window, which on the one hand consumes display real estate, whilst still being narrow enough that it proves hard for some users to be able to grab easily.

Forcing the user to do things Steve's way is not a benefit to the user.
Limited numbers of geeks like to customize stuff. For most functionality for the vast majority of users it's better for the designer to make a reasonable decision. Ref: The Paradox of Choice.

In terms of learning curve, their interfaces are slightly ahead. In terms of productivity, their interfaces are years behind.
Your abstract opinion. I'd argue that people are most productive on well designed UIs, and Apples UIs are way ahead of anything Linux has.

They took NeXTStep's dock and ruined its defaults for prettiness instead of muscle memory, for example.
That's probably a fair point (not that I ever actually experienced NeXT myself.) And the reason is Fitt's Law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law

And you have to move the mouse farther (and on a large display, actually refocus your eyes) to use the single menu bar.
And there you are wrong. A menu at the edge of the screen is easier (more productive) to use. Again because of Fitt's law. Plus it also is more economic on screen real estate.

And until OSX, Apple didn't even have minimize/maximize, instead using the same multifinder approach they've been using (annoyingly) for years.
i.e. It doesn't work like Windows. And Linux copied the Windows functionality. The paradigm in Mac OS is not to run applications full screen - instead of maximizing, the zoom button only increases the size of a window's height or width until the scroll bar is no longer needed (or the extent of the screen is hit.) Any extra growth of a window beyond that takes up screen real estate without revealing any more of the document. It's a waste.
You are used to Windows and/or Linux, and you assume that it's the right way to do things. When the real issue is that it's just the way that you are used to things being done. That doesn't mean it's the best way.
Re:Sounds to me... by Bigjeff5 · 2010-05-16 06:26 · Score: 2, Informative

However, claims that Xerox single handedly invented the WIMP interface [wikipedia.org] (Windows, Icons, Pointer, Menus) and that Apple copied that interface exactly as created by Xerox are simply incorrect.
I think you're the only one who has said that so far, everyone else just stuck to the GUI (which is the first implementation of WIMP as an interface). Xerox invented the GUI, but not the mouse. They were the ones who came up with point-and-click as well as a menu and icon driven user interface. NLS had windows, but all commands were text based, like a classic CLI. The mouse existed to click on hyperlinks, which were another NLS first, along with windows.

The only addition made by Xerox PARC was the addition of Icons. NLS had bitmapped WYSIWYG graphics, but did not come up with the idea of using Icons to represent commands, using text based menus instead.
That's not quite correct - NLS was not WYSIWYG, What You See Is What You Get means everything you can access on the system is available on-screen. Most of what you did with NLS was done with complicated CHORD commands or punch cards (in off-line mode).
It had some very neat things, including multiple windows and editable 2d graphics, but a graphical user interface it was not, it was very much still a command driven interface with occasional graphical components. Sort of a transition OS between a CLI and a GUI. Windows and menus in NLS were more like the windows and menus available in DOS. Yeah, they existed, and they were probably more heavily used than those in DOS (and more feature rich, by the look of things), but they still were not GUIs.
Actually a good comparison of how the NLS UI worked is the Hyperwords addon for Firefox. It's built around text hyperlinks and such. Like all great text-based interfaces, it had a steep learning curve but allowed for great productivity once mastered.
In any case, the Alto was the first OS with an actual GUI. NLS was a text based UI with some graphics to make it pretty.

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Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller

Freedom from porn. by kentrel · 2010-05-15 13:19 · Score: 5, Funny

Sorry Steve. The PC had me at "Hello boys"

Re:Freedom from porn. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 13:52 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah unwashed hippies like Stallman and compulsive narcissists like Job envision their magical sex free computing utopias (one being software anarchy, the other being software slavery) all they like, but we real humans will prefer the platform with boobs.
Re:Freedom from porn. by nmb3000 · 2010-05-15 14:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

Freedom from programs that steal your private data. Freedom from programs that trash your battery. Freedom from porn. Yep, freedom.
WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Nice job combining those bottom two, Steve. How did the CEO of the company that produced the 1984 commercial go from that to this utter drivel?
I am free from programs that steal my private data on my PC if I choose to be.
I am free from programs that trash my battery on my PC if I choose to be.
I am free from porn on my PC, if I choose to be.
Do you see the difference Steve?
WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
The most amazing part of this entire thing is the complete role reversal. The running woman in 1984 no longer represents Apple or its products. She is now represented by the PC and its many forms with the drones being Apple users basking in their "freedom". You never have more freedom when you have fewer choices. NEVER.
This is the very reason I won't buy Apple's products. The doublethink being presented here by Steve goes against everything I believe computing should be about.

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"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
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Re:Freedom from porn. by The+Fanta+Menace · 2010-05-15 15:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

wtf? How does free software equate to software anarchy? How does free software equate to sex free computing? How does software anarchy equate to sex free computing?

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-- Even if a god did exist, why the fsck should I worship it?
Re:Freedom from porn. by boarder8925 · 2010-05-15 15:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

I think that O'Brien's reversal of the motto is more appropriate for Apple: SLAVERY IS FREEDOM. By giving up the right to make "grander" or "higher-level" choices, the user gains the perception that his device will be taken care of for him as far as its software is concerned. By voluntarily becoming a slave to Apple's App Store-iPhone OS ecosystem, the user gains peace of mind, and he gets to say he uses an iDevice to boot.

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Keep your eyes to the sky.
Re:Freedom from porn. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 15:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

Dear artard,
You and your two friends can enjoy not buying apple products, but to my mind a new class of product by definition introduces more CHOICE to the market than was previously available.
There are probably more important things to stand against.
Re:Freedom from porn. by Concerned+Onlooker · 2010-05-15 15:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

And so if Apple goes away that leads to more choice for consumers in what way? They get to choose between Microsoft and Microsoft? Because the reality is that Linux isn't truly consumer grade yet.

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http://www.rootstrikers.org/
Re:Freedom from porn. by silanea · 2010-05-15 16:08 · Score: 3, Insightful

What new class? If you mean the iPad, no, sorry to put a dark spot onto your world view, but His Jobsiness did not invent the keyboardless touch PC.

--
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
Re:Freedom from porn. by Lord+Kano · 2010-05-15 16:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

Is there even human history before porn?
No.
Look here.
For at least 40,000 years humans have been creating images of people having sex.
LK

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"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:Freedom from porn. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 16:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

I am free from programs that steal my private data on my PC if I choose to be.
But you are part of a minority group that are even aware of such behaviour, and presumably an even smaller group competent enough to verify a given app's behaviour. Most people don't fall into either of these categories.
How does your average person determine the behaviour or privacy implications of any given piece of software? Ask strangers on the internet? I've done some research on this, and I can comfortably state: the internet is full of fucking morons giving bad advice. The real world has the same problem, and the bad-advice-givers all self-identify as experts, so if you're meant to find someone trustworthy to ask first, you're basically in the same boat you were in looking for trustworthy software.
Your kind of freedom is fine for those who have the time and capacity to learn enough to keep from pointing the internet-bazooka at their own feet. Apple is trying to look out for the rest where they can.
Re:Freedom from porn. by nmb3000 · 2010-05-15 17:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

Only if you're both capable and vigilant. Most people aren't able to really be safe from spyware.
That was true about 4-6 years ago. With a more modern operating system (Linux/Vista/Win7, heck even XPSP3) the technical threat is drastically reduced. The biggest problem has always been user attitude and actions, something which is often WORSE on Mac than it is elsewhere due to the prevalent belief that "Macs can't get virus/malware!". When users stop running as admin and stop clicking pretty screensaver ads then we'll have made some real progress, but that's a social problem, not technical.
Only by forgoing things like YouTube.
That's funny, because I can watch 720p video on YouTube and see about 25% CPU usage. Not bad for HD video playback. Of course if I'm worried about battery I can drop to SD or just save a link and watch the video when I'm plugged into the wall. You don't even have that option with the iPad.
Apple actually provides an alternative.
Um, no, they don't.
But your kids aren't.
It's my job as a parent to ensure my kids don't access material I deem appropriate. No matter how much some people might wish it were the case, neither a computer nor a TV is not a parental replacement. Besides, why should Apple decide what is "porn" and what isn't? Is an anatomically-correct human body reference app "porn"? Would it be rejected from the app store? Better break out your Magic 8 Ball to find out.

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"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
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Re:Freedom from porn. by NotInTheBox · 2010-05-15 20:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

Surely it is your choice to buy a iProduct from Apple or to buy it somewhere else?
As the consequence of the choices you make you will get particular freedoms. And like all freedoms, any freedom brings with it some limitation. **Absolute freedom does not exist.**
We make a choice because of what we expect to be the consequence of this choice: The freedoms **and** limitation we think we can accept. So, If you don't accept the consequence then you should choose differently.
In old eastern germany you did not have the freedom to voice your opinion, but if you did people would listen. In current germany you have the freedom of expression, but now nobody listens anymore unless you are a VIP.
Freedom without at least some limitions does not exist. You never choose for or against some particular freedom, the choice is always about the freedoms you do want, and the freedoms you don't want.

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What I cannot create, I do not understand
Re:Freedom from porn. by MrHanky · 2010-05-15 22:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

Until so many people have chosen slavery that freedom becomes impractical or illegal. See software patents, h.264. It's important to make people aware that when they choose Apple, they choose to get locked in to a platform that dictates what they can and can't do, and that is deliberately designed to make it expensive to switch, and designed with forced obsolescence in mind.
Re:Freedom from porn. by selven · 2010-05-15 23:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

The parent is not saying that Apple products should be legally banned. He's saying why they're bad, and why you shouldn't use one. All he's doing is providing a negative review of a product.
Re:Freedom from porn. by Draek · 2010-05-16 02:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

Much like having optional slavery introduces more choice to the job market than was previously available.
Some people can see farther than 5 minutes ahead. Pity you aren't one of them.

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No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
Re:Freedom from porn. by HermMunster · 2010-05-16 03:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

Thank goodness FOSS has no central governing force, for if it had it would cease to be FOSS. You can't understand that to be "governed and free" is an oxymoron?

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You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Re:Freedom from porn. by Opportunist · 2010-05-16 03:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

To be fair, most companies are, from a government perspective, either a despotism or an oligarchy. More likely, in the meantime, nepotistic and kleptocratic.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Steve held his own... by pdboddy · 2010-05-15 13:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

Hehe, I will say that in the last image of the email exchange, Steve Jobs really zinged Tate.

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Julie Moult is an idiot.

Re:Steve held his own... by Presto+Vivace · 2010-05-15 13:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

How many CEO's would come out looking half so well in an email flame war?
Re:Steve held his own... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 13:33 · Score: 5, Funny

Steve Jobs still seems like a dick.
Steve: "So what if I come off as dickish? What've *you* done to change the world that gives you license to criticize me?"
Following people are allowed to criticize Jobs: Nobody.
Among people you might think would be allowed to criticize Jobs, here's why they can't:
Bill Gates: Windows is useless. The PC is over.
Linus Torvald: Haha. Exactly what's your market share again?
God: Who is this God? Even if he existed, what has he developed for computers? Nothing? Moving on.
Anyone not computer related: YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS ARE BUNK.
Re:Steve held his own... by Loadmaster · 2010-05-15 13:42 · Score: 2, Funny

Derek Smart. Need you ask?
Re:Steve held his own... by popeyethesailor · 2010-05-15 14:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

I thought it was a pretty cheap shot. One has to be a prolific achiever now to even criticize Steve Jobs? Sorry that doesn't sound so smart to me. I could've imagined that coming from Steve Ballmer, but I imagined Jobs to be better.
I'm disappointed in this industry in general. With the advent of internet and open communications/standards, I thought the era of odious restrictions placed by software companies would go away. Looks like nothing will change; only the players change. We need more Stallmen.
Re:Steve held his own... by ClosedSource · 2010-05-15 14:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

It's also worthwhile to remember that while Jobs is certainly the credit-taker, there's no evidence that Apple's best achievements were Steve's personal accomplishments.
Re:Steve held his own... by Hal_Porter · 2010-05-15 15:13 · Score: 3, Funny

"By the way Pastor Niemoller, how many thousand year Reichs have you built?"
Yeah, I Godwinned it.

--
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Re:Steve held his own... by masmullin · 2010-05-15 16:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

Here Here! The world needs more Stallmen!
Re:Steve held his own... by Sir_Lewk · 2010-05-15 17:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yeah, I Godwinned it.
That is ok, Jobs already "think of the children"'d it. Reasonable discussion already ended before the slashdot article was even posted.

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"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Re:Steve held his own... by aaron+p.+matthews · 2010-05-15 18:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

I could've imagined that coming from Steve Ballmer
Well given Microsoft's tendency to "borrow" from Apple, I wouldn't be surprised if candid Ballmer responses to customer emails became ubiquitous.
Re:Steve held his own... by NekSnappa · 2010-05-16 00:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

Are you serious? While he might not be writing the code, or designing the circuits. The products that come from his company, first come his mind.
It's all about vision and drive. You can have all the skills in the world. But if you don't have the ability to think up a use or application for those skills you might as well be talking to yourself under an overpass somewhere.

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I want to shoot the messenger!

haha by timmarhy · 2010-05-15 13:23 · Score: 5, Interesting

steve gets a little market share and it goes to his head.

here in the real world, he hasn't hardly made a dent in personal computing. I'd admit he has cornered the wanky new toy gadget market, that's about it.

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If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....

Re:haha by OrangeCatholic · 2010-05-15 13:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

What Jobs is saying, is that he's finally found a way to reach the masses of computer noobs that Mac has been aiming for all along. The problem with the original Macs is that they required someone to actually use a computer.
Now that he's turned computers into toys, he can finally get "Grandma." But this doesn't really change anything in the computer world.
It's something to brag about for sure, on a marketing level. On a features level, he succeeds only by not having them. Kind of like how McDonald's succeeds by not having a steak dinner.
Re:haha by peragrin · 2010-05-15 13:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

your quite right, but the people have been eating at MSFT's burger king for two decades. the fact that they are now willing to try something different, is a sign all to it's own.

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i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Re:haha by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · 2010-05-15 13:45 · Score: 3, Funny

More like succeeding by not having a hand crank on the front of your car. Most people don't miss that.
Re:haha by michaelhood · 2010-05-15 13:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

What Jobs is saying, is that he's finally found a way to reach the masses of computer noobs that Mac has been aiming for all along. The problem with the original Macs is that they required someone to actually use a computer.
Now that he's turned computers into toys, he can finally get "Grandma." But this doesn't really change anything in the computer world.
It's something to brag about for sure, on a marketing level. On a features level, he succeeds only by not having them. Kind of like how McDonald's succeeds by not having a steak dinner.
I agree.. and yet you can't even boot, for the first time, a 3G iPad without connecting it to a computer with iTunes. WTH were they thinking with that?
Re:haha by flibbidyfloo · 2010-05-15 14:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

Steve probably wouldn't like the comparison of Apple to Mickey D's, and he wouldn't ever admit that Windows is a steak dinner compared to anything by Apple. But I think the comparison is very astute. If McDonald's tried to add a steak dinner and a wine list to their menu, it would go over like a lead balloon. They succeed by doing a very small set of things well (matter of opinion, I know). But no one wants to live in a world where McDonald's is the only restaurant... Not even the CEO of McD's.
Re:haha by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · 2010-05-15 14:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

And an openable hood.
Re:haha by Draek · 2010-05-15 14:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

No, not really, the steak dinner is still the more appropiate analogy.
Having hand cranks wouldn't serve much (if any) purpose on a modern car, so truly most people *wouldn't* want it. Steak dinners, however, are actually desireable and there's a sizeable market for them still. In the case of PCs they're the corporate world, which may love to lock down their employees' computers but despise having them locked from *them*, and for the variety of tasks corporations need computers for, an Apple toy (sorry, "appliance") will never be enough.
But Jobs' and the Apple fans' dismissal of the business sector isn't surprising. That's why Microsoft considers Linux, and not Apple, its biggest threat: because Apple's ideology of dividing the world between 'geeks' and 'consumers', refusing to even acknowledge the existence of the corporate market, is what ultimately locks them from being more than an 'also ran' first to IBM and now to Microsoft.
Wake me up when the corporate world abandons regular computers in favor of Apple's toys. But not before.

--
No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
Re:haha by SanityInAnarchy · 2010-05-15 14:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

Many people do enjoy manual transmissions, though I don't, so I see your point.
However, the largest component missing is an option other than the App Store. This move is akin to selling a car with the hood welded shut. While some higher-end models might get away with it (Rolls-Royce, BMW, etc), it's still something I'd be very wary of buying. Modern BMWs are to the point where you physically can't even get an oil change, let alone change the radio, without going to a BMW dealer (at BMW prices) -- you're actually locked out of your own engine.
I don't have a problem with it being a simple device for simple people. I do have a problem with the fact that it's actually a federal crime to tinker with it, let alone try to sell apps or other accessories for it without Apple's stamp of approval.

--
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Re:haha by mlts · 2010-05-15 14:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

The problem is that "something different" may not be good.
Obligatory car analogy: It would be like trading in your 10 year old car for a new one that looks cool and is comfortable, but is completely autopiloted, and only lets you out at certain stops. Businesses have to apply to the car maker so the car would stop at their brick and mortar store. And without warning, this can be taken away, so if someone used to stop at a Target, they wouldn't have that option tomorrow and only get Wal-Marts. Continuing the analogy, someone patches the ECM with a steering wheel to allow manual control, but the next year's cars always come with protection against that.
People trading their computers in for what are effectively game consoles means that they are trading their freedom to run what they want, when they want for an environment locked down and managed by someone else who can do anything they please.
My question is: Do we want to go this route of sacrificing openness for ease of use? Yes, viruses and Trojans are a nuisance, but do we want to trade our relatively open computers for what would essentially be terminals, locked to some for-profit corporation's motives and future? For me, it is a no-brainer. I will keep my computer, and my phone will be on an open platform. If Android phones become unrootable or impossible to put custom ROMs on, I'll move to the Nokia N900 and encourage others to follow.
Do we want all our computers to be like PS3s where at any time, functionality can disappear at a moment's notice like the "other OS", and there would not be a single thing we can do about it? I'm sure the usual antagonists of open computing would love a wholesale move to a locked down platform, but is that where we want to take computing as we know it? Do we want to move to a computing model where what we buy, we are only permitted access to whatever the company allows on a whim? Yes, PS3s have no virus or spyware problems, but we are trading freedom for security here, and in the end, we will end up with neither.
Re:haha by osu-neko · 2010-05-15 14:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

steve gets a little market share and it goes to his head.
here in the real world, he hasn't hardly made a dent in personal computing. I'd admit he has cornered the wanky new toy gadget market, that's about it.
Your comment is strangely reminiscent of Microsoft's attitude towards Netscape circa 1994. "They've cornered the wanky new Internet market, but that's about it."

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"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Re:haha by frdmfghtr · 2010-05-15 14:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

Given the success of the iPad thus far, I'd say that for some users, the answer is "yes." Not everybody needs a terminal prompt with root access. Not everybody needs 100% access the the OS's most fundamental settings. Not everybody needs their platform to do everything imaginable.
It's quite simple: either you like the iPad or you don't. If you do, good for you. If you don't, buy something else. Last I checked, nobody has been forced to buy an iPad.

--
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
Re:haha by HermMunster · 2010-05-15 15:07 · Score: 2, Funny

Grandma doesn't use an iPad. It hurts her hand to hold it and type. Grandma also isn't playing duke nukem on it. Grandmas need multitasking and want to view videos. This device isn't for her. She's always questioning why she can't have it her way. She keeps asking "where's the beef?"

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You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Re:haha by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-05-15 15:08 · Score: 2, Insightful

Your comment is strangely reminiscent of Microsoft's attitude towards Netscape circa 1994. "They've cornered the wanky new Internet market, but that's about it."
Are you sure that's the analogy you want?
I mean, in the end, Microsoft did ruthlessly crush Netscape.
Re:haha by daviddennis · 2010-05-15 15:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

I feel your pain, I really do.
But what if your old car would go to random places all of a sudden and crash into brick walls at random times? And when you went out to browse your porn half the time your car would get a flat tire while you were out there and a bunch of punks would beat it up and you'd spend hours and hours getting it to work halfway decently.
So Steve Jobs glides up in his gleaming white Gulfstream V jet and says, "Hey, I have a cool car that drives better than anything on the planet. We make sure you can drive on this excellent network of safe roads, and leave the potholed, poorly made old style ones behind. You know, I'm sorry, but not only did those maintenance guys do a lousy job, they had no taste."
So you take a look at his roads and sure enough, everything is gleaming and works and there are no strange brick walls to be found, anywhere. But ... there is something missing ... something important!
"Where's the porn?" you ask. "And how about Rush Limbaugh and National Review?"
"Oh, the porn hurts the kids, and National Review makes fun of our sacred cow Obama(tm), You know, we are all Democrats here, even if we don't quite admit it," he says. "Don't worry, though, you can use Safari to browse any web site you want."
"And you know what, we know you want to look at porn and we're a big company and can't approve of that garbage. But all you need to do is run Safari or the movie player and you can find that junk you want, just not on our shiny roads. So you go a little out of your way for it, but your experience is still safe and when you're back you will be assured that your car will still work, instead of get banged up."
And isn't that funny, that might just be better for porn, actually, because you are always safe. How many native porn apps do you have on your computer? I would bet, none. How many porn web sites do you visit? If you are concerned with this issue, probably quite a few. The point is, the makers of porn are not stupid, and they will bring you what you want.
The App Store does have some downright sad speech restrictions. My Obama IQ game, for instance, was not approved until after the 2008 elections were safely passed. Pretty pathetic, no? Not that one anti-Obama game was ever going to tip an election one way or the other, but the sales would have been nice to get.
Complete freedom of speech is preserved on the Internet. The App Store is not a vehicle for free political or sexual expression, and to me, that's OK. As long as you can browse the web, you are free.
Some people who argue against Apple just don't realize how horrible a task it is to eradicate a piece of spyware from a Windows computer. I used to work in IT and my experiences in trying to devirus a computer were just plain horrible and pathetic. Fortunately I've been an almost exclusively Apple user for many years and since I started being one, my computing experience has become far better and smoother and more fun.
So I have a balanced perspective. Would it be nice if the new iPad was totally free? Sure.
But isn't the App Store a great invention, something that helps even small developers like me make a few bucks?
In the past couple of years I have bought far more App Store applications than Mac applications, and most of my Mac applications were made by, guess who, Apple. App Store applications are cheap, and they are easy to buy and use, and a lot of fun. And most of my App Store applications are from small developers, not Apple. So if you are looking at which business model serves the small developer, it might just be Apple's.
This is not a perfect world. It's a tragedy that evil people deliberately set out to ruin other peoples' computers in pursuit of a few bucks. But they do, and the iPhone software model stops them cold. If you're sick of having to be paranoid about evil people running your computer, you might prefer if it was run by Steve Jobs, as opposed to running it yourself.
That's a trade a lot of people want to make, and I'm sorry, I really can't blame them.
D
Re:haha by thesandtiger · 2010-05-15 15:50 · Score: 3, Interesting

The iPad isn't a computer. The iPhone isn't a computer. The iPod isn't a computer.
Oh, sure, in the broadest possible sense they're "computers" in that they're devices that compute, but they've gone into appliance territory. They're gadgets that let you do certain things in a certain way, and they're actually pretty good at that stuff.
A better analogy might be an Erector set (Mechano, maybe, for our European friends?) vs. a set of dolls or action figures.
With one - the Erector/Mechano set - you can make a whole bunch of stuff and do a bunch of different things. Sure, they might not be completely elegant, but if you want a truck, you can make a truck. If you want a house, you can make a house. If you want a robot, you can kind of make a robot. Some people - people who use Slashdot quite obviously - really like this freedom and don't mind the rough edges because they're a trivial price to pay for the flexibility.
With the other - the set of dolls - you can't really do nearly as much, but what you can do is going to be a more refined experience, and a more specific one. With this, instead of a generic truck, you're getting a Tonka brand Dump Truck. Or you're getting a Barbie Dream House instead of a generic house. Or you're getting Wall-E instead of random robot looking thing. You can't do nearly as much - I mean, if you get Wall-E you aren't going to turn it into a Tonka. Lots of people actually prefer this kind of experience, strange as that might sound. They want to play with Wall-E, not a random robot they made. They want a Tonka, not some truck-like thing. They don't *want* to have to put it together.
And some people like both for different purposes. Sometimes people just want to make whatever the feel like making, and sometimes they want to play with a specific toy.
Anyway, while people may have a preference for one or the other and think the one they didn't pick is shit, the fact is, quite a few people see some value - for whatever reason - in their choice.
When I grew up I had Barbies and also an Erector set. I wound up making machines that would pull apart the Barbies so that I could rebuild them as Cyborgs. I don't know what that means, but I thought if I'm gonna keep going with this toy analogy I might as well share.

--
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
Re:haha by steelfood · 2010-05-15 15:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yeah, I'd rather skip the Mickey D's and Burger King altogether, and cook my own damn meal. But given the number of obese people in the US, the money's going to fast food anyway.
I think our lifestyles, especially our eating habits, reflect our other preferences. Linux will never gain prominence on the desktop, because most people prefer to eat out rather than cook their own meal. It's pretty much as simple as that.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:haha by GigaplexNZ · 2010-05-15 16:22 · Score: 2

Some people who argue against Apple just don't realize how horrible a task it is to eradicate a piece of spyware from a Windows computer. I used to work in IT and my experiences in trying to devirus a computer were just plain horrible and pathetic. Fortunately I've been an almost exclusively Apple user for many years and since I started being one, my computing experience has become far better and smoother and more fun.
I argue against Apple, I know how horrible a task it is to eradicate a piece of spyware from a Windows computer, and I've noticed that spyware doesn't affect Linux which just so happens to not take Apples overbearing steps to lock stuff down. There's a difference between making the system inherently more robust and using whitelists to only allow apps that are proven to not be spyware (or anything that they just don't like).
Re:haha by masmullin · 2010-05-15 16:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

the iPad DOES replace a PC for a large amount of people. Take off your slashdot-coloured glasses, and you'll realize that most non-technicals just use their PC to update their facebook, surf the web, and jot a few quick emails.
Re:haha by node+3 · 2010-05-15 16:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

Wake me up when the corporate world abandons regular computers in favor of Apple's toys. But not before.
Why would I want a computer that the corporate world is enamored with? I'm a human, not a corporation.
Re:haha by masmullin · 2010-05-15 17:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

they'll put up with it just fine.
some of them will even like it, and some of them will simply pretend they like it to justify the cash they spent.
Re:haha by FoolishOwl · 2010-05-15 17:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

Did they? Take a look at the history of the Mozilla Project.
Re:haha by MacGyver2210 · 2010-05-15 19:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

I can blame them.
Maybe I'm just a better driver than you, but I don't ride on the safe gleaming roads of Apple, nor do punks beat up my car when I go to the bad side of town. I haven't seen a brick wall in well over a year, even in a model commonly thought to attract brick walls. I taught myself how to use the car's security system and I know how to park it in a safe spot, even in the seedy areas. If that fails, I know enough about my car to completely overhaul it should anything truly disastrous happen to it in the red light district. Just to avoid problems, I do this once every 3-6 months anyway, whether or not something bad happened.
I was so interested in these cars and their various roads that I went to school and learned how they work. i learned all about how you can make little gadgets to go on your dashboard, and how you can get better gas mileage out of your car. Eventually, I learned all about how the engine works and how to rebuild it, or even build it from scratch. It was funny though, all the time I was practicing building these engines and components for my car, I couldn't build one that would work on Apple's shiny road.
See, I had to buy an apple car which would only work on their shiny roads to even be ABLE to put a new stereo in any of their cars. Even if the car wasn't mine. On top of that, it cost me subscription fees for the car building tools, and I had to build them using uncommon foreign tools which were nothing like standard cars and took much longer to do the same task. Even once I had built a new stereo for their cars, they could choose not to let me install it for any reason they wanted. Without even giving a reason. It was their road, and they had complete control.
On top of that, despite the fact that the CEO thought that EVERYONE wanted one of their cars, most really didn't, and very few people even drove them. There were TONS of people using their mopeds and segways, but they could only ride on the shiny sidewalk at a lower speed limit, and were still limited by the company's rules for their roads.
Now what if I wanted to help a friend with one of these change their tires? Forget it, I had to send it back to the dealership at my expense, and wasn't guaranteed anything of a repair unless I had previously paid them a large 'Just in case' fee. Top it all off with their car costing $1000 more than mine for no apparent reason other than their name on the side, and the choice was very clear.
Enough metaphors. If you don't know how to use a computer, Apple is for you. If you know how, you don't need the crap that they're trying to sell you. Eventually Apple's stupid customers will run out of money for the overpriced shiny crap, and they will go under and once again(like not too far in the past) they will be left whining about monopolies and begging Microsoft for more money.You have fun jumping through your hoops to watch porn - I'll just click the link.

--
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
Re:haha by dafing · 2010-05-15 20:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

See, this is exactly what he meant. I hate how online commenting is this massive shitstorm of people hiding behind made up names such as "bigdik69" and "cooldood1987" (guess when they were born), who are we to constantly pick at what others do? If you dont like Apple products, dont buy them, its simple. Can you imagine if people were this way with the world outside tech? Example, everyone knows that US cars have this stigma of being crap, but would every car fanatic spend their every waking hour to mail postcards saying "hey Ford, ur cars suck!!!111!!!"? More than any modern company (straight research facilities aside), perhaps Apple has given the world the most in terms of everyday technology.

By all means resent the horrors of the iPod, iPhone, iPad. I know our lives have been ruined by their success. I rue the day Jobs and co decided to put a 5GB hard drive in a plastic and metal casing, I cant sleep at night over the iPhones refusal to play my .mkv warez, and the iPad and its mono speaker make me irritable to everyone around.

I'm a proficient Apple user, I have seemingly iEverything, and am quite happy. Of course I understand why some (a small percent of the market) refuse to have something that is "closed", I enjoy the Apple products I have.

I have a healthy respect for Android, I hope it does very well. As far as I know, not a single Android device has been sold in New Zealand. I've seen one or two of the crappier models at stores, but none of my friends have one. I cannot wait for the EVO 4G to arrive (for my American friends).

I think companies competing with Apple should focus on the things that Apple DOESNT do, on the things they provide. I think "droid does" was a good idea, although it was a little...geeky? By all means continue this line of ads! Many "Apple Haters" mention "oh that Apple, its all marketing". Well, if Apple supposedly makes up a tiny 5% of the PC market, how come they have such mindshare? Hey Dell, Microsoft, HP, get off your butts, spend some bucks on ads eh? They have the money to compete, yet they DONT.

Put yourself in Steve Jobs shoes (New Balance 991's, do you know the uniform of any other CEO, past or present?), he must receive thousands of emails a day from ingrates, "how cum da Iphone is not on Verizon? LAAAAAAAAAME!". Computer companies dont owe us diddly. Either support a company who makes choices you AGREE with, or even better, start your OWN company, in your parents garage, with a close friend. Who knows, perhaps you will one day have a private jet, billions in the bank and an army of jackasses hounding you day and night.

--
--- ...or a new slashdot signature. Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
Re:haha by Razalhague · 2010-05-15 21:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

How long do you think "most non-technicals" will put up with typing on an uncomfortable, unresponsive piece of glass? Five emails, maybe ten?
I bet it's longer than they've put up with writing 160 character messages using 12 buttons.
Re:haha by macs4all · 2010-05-15 21:17 · Score: 5, Informative

Enough metaphors. If you don't know how to use a computer, Apple is for you. If you know how, you don't need the crap that they're trying to sell you
As an embedded developer for the past 30 years, and an Apple user since 1976, I can assure you that your statement is utter rubbish.

I use Macs because I don't WANT to fuck around inside my computer. I got all that out of my system about 20 years ago with my Apple ][s, which lived perpetually with their lids off, so that I could tinker.

Now, I'd prefer my computers to be as APPLIANCE-LIKE as possible. Not because I "don't know how"; but rather, because I have better things to do. Apple (mostly) achieves that goal. I guess I can understand why others don't feel like I do, which is more than I can say for most of the people commenting here.

But don't ever mistake "don't want to" with "don't know how".
Re:haha by drinkypoo · 2010-05-16 01:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

But don't ever mistake "don't want to" with "don't know how".
When I had to recover the password on an OSX system, and had to figure out how to get to single user, then start several critical services without which I could not even log in a real user or change a password, I knew that all that stuff about macs being trouble-free was horseshit. All the times I've had to manually edit a plist because some part of OSX was failing to start up tell me that you're a bullshit apologist. OSX may break less often (although IME, it hangs as much as anything else) but when it does it's just as hard to fix as anything else. And practically, it is actually harder, because there are less resources to help you fix it.
The simple truth is that OSX doesn't prevent you from having to fuck around inside your computer's software, and no modern computer requires you to be continually tinkering with hardware, so that is a red herring.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:haha by daviddennis · 2010-05-16 02:41 · Score: 2, Informative

It was a genuine virus that propagated via Bluetooth and MMS. The phone was a Nokia 6600, a device so confusing it took me forever to figure out how to run the web browser. I remember it was an odd sliver of an unmarked button that did it.
The virus spewed advertisements for some sexual web site and was a big embarrassment to my friend, who was a middle-aged female. It was all pretty funny until she got the bill.
D
Re:haha by daviddennis · 2010-05-16 05:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

Apple's App Store has sold billions of dollars worth of apps, and has millions of happy customers. By any reasonable criteria it has achieved greatness.
As for iPad, yes, I think it's the best thing out there for the purpose it serves. It's a portable device to browse the web, and it lets me use over 5,000 programs designed exclusively for it, almost all of which are interesting, fun to use and available at very fair prices. Not to mention almost 200,000 iPhone apps.
Have you tried one?
What device would you consider better for that purpose?
D
Re:haha by nine-times · 2010-05-16 05:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

The problem with the original Macs is that they required someone to actually use a computer. Now that he's turned computers into toys, he can finally get "Grandma." But this doesn't really change anything in the computer world.
I know you're trying to deride what Apple's doing by using the word "toy", but I think you're kind of right and I think Jobs would even agree with you on a certain level. What Apple has been aiming at since the original Mac is that they're trying to take the computer out of computing.
Jobs' vision for the future of computing, like it or not, seems not to include people consciously thinking about computers as computers. Instead you just have various devices and tools which do various things using fairly natural interactions. You're imagining that, in the future, you'll still be thinking, "Oh, I want to look something up online. Let me sit down at my computer. Oh, I want to check my calendar. Let me sit down at my computer. Oh, I want to type up a report. Let me sit down at my computer."
Jobs, on the other hand, is imagining a future where you think, "Oh, I want to look at a web page. Good thing I have my handy web-page-viewer-thingy. Oh wait, I want to check my calendar. My calendar-thingy is in the other room, let me go grab it. Oh, I want to write a report. I'll go use my report-writer-thingy that's sitting on my desk."
Now many of those thingies may actually be the same physical device, but that's not the point. The concept is that, when you're working with your calendar-thingy, it's a calendar. It's not a computer running a calendar application. In your mind and in how you interact with it, it *is* a calendar. It looks like a calendar and works like a calendar, and it's no harder to use than it is to use a paper calendar. The report-writer-thingy would have the capabilities of a real word-processor, but it wouldn't be any more confusing than using a typewriter; adding a picture is no more confusing to our monkey brains than cutting a picture out of a magazine and gluing it into your report.
So it's not really that he's trying to turn computers into toys, but he's trying to turn them into tools. You want your computer to be a blank slate to fill in with whatever tools you want, and I understand that. Jobs wants to make computers that are ready-made tools, developed to do specific things very well, and I understand that too.

Try this one... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 13:28 · Score: 5, Interesting

Go out, buy nothing but an iPad and tell me how good your computing experience is 12 months from now.

No cheating. Not a single transaction on a single machine that isn't an iPad.

I dare you.

Re:Try this one... by Darkness404 · 2010-05-15 13:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

Ok, tell me this though.

How are you going to get the thing to print? Not everyone has a wi-fi enabled printer, myself I still make do with a parallel port printer. Do I print things? Not often, but occasionally I need to for work and the like.

Are you going to enjoy being locked out of the web? There are tons of flash games out there, tons of flash movies, etc. What benefit are you getting to accept it?

Are you going to be broke paying for applications? It is entirely reasonable to not have to pay for a single application without pirating on a PC/Linux. Almost every pay program has a free alternative on PC/Linux. On the other hand, due to Apple's draconian policies, a paid app may be the only app "approved" to do something.

What about storage? The average person is going to have GB worth of movies, music, documents, photos, etc. Flash memory is -expensive-. Also, how are you going to transfer things to the iPad? And backups? What about durability? If a component of a PC fails, its easily replaced. Nothing is truly "fatal" if you have the money.

The iPad makes a passable secondary "computer" but as a primary computer? I'm better off with my 7 inch EEE 701...

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Re:Try this one... by am+2k · 2010-05-15 14:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Kinda hard to get any money then, without ATMs? Or driving a car (same goes for public transportation). Or getting up on time without your radio clock.
Re:Try this one... by Macrat · 2010-05-15 14:19 · Score: 5, Funny

myself I still make do with a parallel port printer.
Did the nursing home forget to give you your meds again?
Re:Try this one... by Darkness404 · 2010-05-15 14:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

1.) I think you overestimate the number of people on insist they must keep using their old printer. Basic printers are pretty cheap these days. I'm sure someone will come out with some kind of adapter for older printers, anyway.

Its easy enough to find a cheap printer. Its hard to find a fast-ish printer where you won't be paying double the price of the printer next time you buy ink...

2.) Not everyone is going to care that they can't play Flash games or that they occasionally can't used some old site.

Yeah, you know old sites like Hulu, Homestar Runner, Newgrounds, South Park, etc. Yeah those sites never get updates. I mean, Hulu? That is totally old school.

Yeah, there is going to be a Hulu app "sometime" but that sometime has lasted for quite a few years now...

3.) Plenty of free apps on the AppStore. Most of the others are pretty cheap.

But you never really know what quality those "free" apps are. There are very few really free apps as in full versions and ad-free. Even then, the user ratings are skewed and reviews don't help.

Plus, with a lack of customization and control, its hard to get things to work if they fail the first time.

4.) MobileMe.com, Time Capsule, Apple TV.

A) Upload is slow, B) Expensive, C) too little storage.

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Re:Try this one... by Reverberant · 2010-05-15 14:34 · Score: 3, Insightful

Go out, buy nothing but an iPad and tell me how good your computing experience is 12 months from now.

Me? Wouldn't work at all (which is why I don't own one). For my mother, older sister, an elderly couple who's network I manage and about twenty other people I can think of? It would be perfect (and make my life much easier).
Re:Try this one... by Darkness404 · 2010-05-15 14:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

or copy it to a USB key.

The iPad has a USB port now?

As as I said, an adapter is likely to pop up sooner of later if there is enough demand for it.

Sooner or later though. What I don't understand is why people would be so reliant on others to -eventually- produce things that they can get for cheap right now.

Hulu isn't even available where I live. Give those other sites a couple of years...

But why wait a couple more years? Its becoming clearer and clearer that the iPad is a crappy device and Jobs doesn't want to change it. There are so many disadvantages for a few advantages. Lets see, its small, it runs iPhone apps and it... um... has a touch screen?

Doesn't seem to stop people paying for software, though. There are also plenty of review sites around the net.

Ok, what is the last piece of PC software you have bought? For me, I guess it would have to be a sealed copy of Windows 3.1 just for the vintage-ness for about $2 at a garage sale about 4 years ago.

For any "functional" software it was so long ago I don't even remember.

And review sites are good... sometimes. However, its becoming harder and harder to identify which sites post legitimate reviews and how many have skewed reviews because of various factors (differing skill levels, bribes, personal favorites, etc)

I'm talking about the near future here, which is what the article is about.

In the near future, I think prices will have fallen to where Android or Linux are the only platforms that make sense for every non-PC device.

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Re:Try this one... by boarder8925 · 2010-05-15 15:23 · Score: 5, Funny

How are you going to get the thing to print?
http://matrisciano.posterous.com/how-to-print-from-an-ipad-6

--
Keep your eyes to the sky.
Re:Try this one... by steelfood · 2010-05-15 16:10 · Score: 3, Interesting

Money? You can't even use the damn thing without connecting it to an actual computing device first.
If you were somehow stranded on a remote island with a brand new iPad and a power source (a solar powered battery charger or whatnot), you'd basically have a small kickboard that doesn't float.
On the other hand, if you instead had a phone, a netbook, or even a wireless router, you could at least broadcast a signal out and hope that passing rescue craft would be able to detect it. With an iPad, you've got nothing.
Granted, getting you off a remote island isn't exactly the advertised use case, but it goes to show exactly how narrow the iPad's use actually is. In particular, it's a rather expensive supplement to a real machine, rather than a real machine in and of itself.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:Try this one... by RzUpAnmsCwrds · 2010-05-15 16:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

Dear dickhead,
Not all of us are willing to blow $500+ on a device that doesn't enable us to do anything we couldn't do before.
I need a laptop to get my job done. I need a mobile phone for a variety of reasons. I can't think of a single damn reason why I need a $500 tablet.
Until you get that not all of us are willing to spend $500 on gadget porn, you won't grok why some people think the iPad is a tremendous waste of money and attention.

Jobs Bot Beta v0.26 by dangitman · 2010-05-15 13:30 · Score: 4, Funny

What Tate failed to realize that he was actually arguing with a bot, and Apple decided to start testing their new artificially intelligent overlord outside the lab. He then woke up in the morning with a stolen iPhone prototype in his pocket, and a dead hooker in his bed.

--
... and then they built the supercollider.

Par for the course by alvinrod · 2010-05-15 13:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

Doesn't really surprise me at all. Steve wants a controlled user experience and geeks want the freedom to do whatever the hell they want to do. The two clash. Steve is right though, we don't have to buy his devices, so don't. It's that easy. I do like Steve's quote at the end of the exchange, however. For as many people bitch about Apple here, there aren't enough that actually go out and do something about it. Even if you're not a developer, you can still vote with your wallet. If you want to drive FOSS to greater prominence, either help by using it or help by creating and fixing it. Complaining about Apple on the internet won't do much. Creating or helping to improve FOSS is only real way to stick it to Apple.

Re:Par for the course by symbolic · 2010-05-15 13:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

For as many people bitch about Apple here, there aren't enough that actually go out and do something about it.
Well, if you're not going to buy an iPad, you won't be going anywhere to do it. So yeah, in order to do something, you really won't be doing anything.

26% of the planet connected by hhawk · 2010-05-15 13:34 · Score: 2, Interesting

The computer, consumer electronic market and the gaming console market are like quick sand; its hard to say who is really winning or losing.

26% of the Planet is online.. but the vast majority of them are connecting with Mobile Devices. The rest are connecting with some type of Intel/AMD based device and some with other processors like ARM but very few of them (I don't have the exact percent) are running an Apple OS.

Thus in that context Apple while is winning in consumer electronics (phone, music play, etc.) versus Microsoft there is real competition and MS had phones for a lot longer. MS is winning over Apple in the gaming console area but has lots of competition from real gaming companies..

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

--
http://www.hawknest.com/

Re:26% of the planet connected by marmoset · 2010-05-15 15:28 · Score: 2, Informative

Just because someone checks Facebook using their iPhone doesn't mean that things have really changed, mobile devices are still crappy for doing just about anything on the internet. Yeah, I might read a blog or two, check the news, etc. but its painful to do so, even on the best devices.
Not trying to be snarky here, but have you actually spent any real time browsing on an iPad? A couple of months ago I might have agreed with you about the quality of the web browsing experience on mobile devices, but now I've owned an iPad for a month and use it full time at night and on weekends. The big reveal is with a fast browser on a large enough screen, mobile browsing really isn't painful. Browsing on the iPad really is a desktop quality experience for anyone who can't be arsed with Flash (I use a blocker on the desktop)

Re:Insomnia and stupidity by jcr · 2010-05-15 13:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

Jobs' empire is falling down around him.

AAPL: $253.82 Market Cap: $230.96B P/E: 21.54.

How can I get an empire to fall down around me like that?

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

The article is just a troller by joeflies · 2010-05-15 13:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

This guy just wrapped up all the common complaints that Adobe and the non-Apple customers want you to believe what's wrong with iPad, and sends off a profanity laced alcohol induced email exchange to see if he can out wit Steve Jobs.

I'd say that Steve stayed pretty much on message with what he's been always saying, even without his PR department to filter out his intent. And the blogger just looks like, well, a troll.

Re:The article is just a troller by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-05-15 15:14 · Score: 4, Funny

I'd say that Steve stayed pretty much on message with what he's been always saying, even without his PR department to filter out his intent.
I never really considered that "I'm a pompous douchebag" was Steve Jobs' message, but when I view it that way, it makes a lot of sense.
I mean, the man makes products that obviously there's a huge market for and good for him, but god damn it's like a one-man circle jerk up in there.

Benefits by Darkness404 · 2010-05-15 13:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

Steve Jobs seems to ignore everything that caused products to be successful: Price to performance. Lets see here the iPad

The iPad costs ~$500, a cheap notebook costs $300-400, paying $500 for a notebook usually gets you a fast, powerful notebook. With a notebook I'm not limited by stupid design decisions, even Microsoft lets me do what I want and doesn't restrict programs. If I want to install an emulator, thats fine. If I want to install Photoshop, thats fine. I don't have to worry about petty squabbles about how Flash is sooooo evil and destroying the world! I can just choose to install Flash or not. With a notebook I can pay ~$5 for a USB card reader rather than $30 for a single-format card reader. With a notebook I have choices of just about everything else, I'm not locked into expensive hardware.

The iPod won marketshare for having a good UI and being small. The iPad has a decent-ish design and decent UI. However, when I can get a laptop with a UI that I've been using for most of my adult life... Why change? The iPad runs expensive applications, a laptop runs free applications.

I think I'm not alone in thinking how annoying it is to have common-sense features be added in at a later date which would have already been done with a simi-open platform.

No one wants real applications! We will never have an iPhone SDK! After all, programs are -terrible- to run. No one wants an alternate browser! No one wants copy/paste! No one wants multi-tasking!

Sorry Steve, I don't understand your opposition to common sense. I have an iPod touch because at the time it was the cheapest wi-fi enabled device to have a good internet experience on the go with some games/music/movies. I'm not going to get an iPad because there are cheaper devices that do a -ton- more.

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.

Re:Benefits by arbiter1 · 2010-05-15 13:54 · Score: 2, Interesting

you can get new pc laptop that cheap, goin by prices on apple.com you can't get one their for anything short of a 1000$, might well go for that wepad that the one german company made, least they are not tieing ur ass down like mac does with all their crap. With all the tie downs they mark price for their stuff a good 50-70% higher then pc counter part with same hardware. you mac fan boys can call me a troll or flamer all you want but facts are Facts.
Re:Benefits by sootman · 2010-05-15 14:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

And for the elevnty-hojillionth freaking time, MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER! Not EVERYONE needs to do EVERYTHING! Plenty of people CAN get by with a very limited device.
As for the rest of your rant, read this.

[Engineers and designers at Apple] take something small, simple, and painstakingly well considered. They ruthlessly cut features to derive the absolute minimum core product they can start with. They polish those features to a shiny intensity. At an anticipated media event, Apple reveals this core product... Then everyone goes back to Cupertino and rolls. As in, they start with a few tightly packed snowballs and then roll them in more snow to pick up mass until they've got a snowman. That's how Apple builds its platforms. It's a slow and steady process of continuous iterative improvement...
Look at the original iPod. Kinda pricey, Mac only, FireWire only--wow, look at crazy Apple, they're selling something that doesn't even work with all the computers they've sold in the last few years! But they added Windows support, and USB, and photos, and videos, and then they made them in different sizes, and according to Wikipedia they've sold over a QUARTER BILLION of them in less than ten years. So you'll have to excuse Mr. Jobs if he doesn't trip over himself to listen to your advice or anyone else's.
Geeks like Woz but the other Steve is plenty smart too. If you've got a little time, read this 1996 interview with Steve Jobs. Look at how much he got right: "The most exciting things happening today are objects and the Web. The Web is exciting for two reasons. One, it's ubiquitous. There will be Web dial tone everywhere. [emphasis added] And anything that's ubiquitous gets interesting. Two, I don't think Microsoft will figure out a way to own it."

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Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Re:Benefits by cowscows · 2010-05-15 14:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

Nobody would ever spend $100 on a fancy chef's knife when they could spend $40 and get a pocket knife that's not only got a blade to cut things, but also a screwdriver, a bottle opener, a tiny saw, and some tweezers.
Except that many people are plenty happy to spend their money on something that is designed to do particular tasks well, even if it can't do everything that a similar product can do.

--
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Re:Benefits by Darkness404 · 2010-05-15 14:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm not a Mac fan really, but if you look at the specs, Mac machines aren't that much more expensive than their PC counterparts spec-wise. The problem is, they have a lot of things most people don't need. Do you -really- need a backlit keyboard? What about a non-standard output port? Do you really need that Core i5 or Core i7 CPU? Do you really need DDR3 RAM? Etc.

The problem is, most people pay for a $1,000+ machine when their needs are met by a machine half the cost or less. Yes, there -are- people who need Core i7 CPUs and powerful graphics cards and OS X and all the fancy stuff. But the average user? No

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Re:Benefits by am+2k · 2010-05-15 14:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sounds to me like you want a laptop, not an iPad. Due to this, I'd suggest getting a laptop, not an iPad, since the iPad doesn't seem to fit your use case.
On the other hand, if somebody wants a small gadget with a streamlined user experience that's also adapted to the hardware (no dialog boxes that don't fit on your mini screen, no 5x5mm touch areas, ), the iPad might be the right buying decision.
Incidentally, that's also what Steve Jobs (or whoever replied) said in those replies: Nobody is forcing you to get an iPad or develop for it. It's a free market. Just because you think you have no use case for it doesn't mean that nobody has one.
Re:Benefits by Antisyzygy · 2010-05-15 14:15 · Score: 3, Informative

You can build a PC that will wipe the floor with any Mac for 900 bucks.

--
That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
Re:Benefits by dangitman · 2010-05-15 14:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

Look at Steve Jobs own policies. After all wasn't everyone happy with web apps? Wasn't web 2.0 and AJAX good enough? Oh and what about multi-tasking, copy-and-paste all things that Jobs had said no one needed but eventually it came.
Sorry, you're just full of shit. Jobs never said these things were not needed, and he did not say they would never come to the phone. Native apps were planned from the beginning. It just wasn't ready in time for the release of the original iPhone. You certainly have a masterly way of totally misunderstanding statements. I'm inclined to think it's deliberate, though, given your trollish ways. If it's not deliberate, it's either comprehension failure, or sourcing your info from tainted sources. You know what they say, Garbage In, Garbage Out.

--
... and then they built the supercollider.
Re:Benefits by osu-neko · 2010-05-15 14:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

Steve Jobs seems to ignore everything that caused products to be successful: Price to performance.
... I'm not going to get an iPad because there are cheaper devices that do a -ton- more.
When Steve Jobs was first in charge of Apple, they made a lot of money selling computers for premium prices. They didn't generate huge market share, but they generated huge profits for Apple.
When Steve Jobs was forced out and they replaced him with a soda-pop seller, Apple slashed prices and produced greater volumes. At one point, they were the world's #1 PC maker, outselling #2 Compaq and others at the time. And the company bled money as it lost, in the final year before Jobs returned, over a billion dollars. A BILLION dollars, lost!
Then Steve Jobs returned, he immediately said "cut that shit out", deep-sixed the clone market, and returned Apple to making high-priced niche machines instead of chasing market share with cheap prices. The first quarter after he returned, after losing over a billion dollars the previous year, Apple turned a profit instead of a loss. It's remained profitable ever since.
Steve Jobs is not ignoring what made Apple successful. He's doing precisely what has always made Apple successful, and ignoring the advice of people who've continuously insisted lower price and more features were more important than a premium cost device designed to do a few things well.
You can argue whether the philosophy is right or not, but it's not ignoring what made Apple successful, it's precisely the strategy and the only strategy that has ever turned massive profits for Apple. You can always buy products that have more features and cost less. Most people who buy from Apple would rather have the more expensive product that does the things it does well, rather than a bunch of other stuff they don't really need, even if it's cheap.

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"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Re:Benefits by keeboo · 2010-05-15 14:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

...or you can have that same chef's knife with and extra set of knives for $80.
All made in the same chinese factory as the $100 one, except the cheaper knives don't carry an apple logo.
Re:Benefits by williamhb · 2010-05-15 15:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

And for the elevnty-hojillionth freaking time, MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER! Not EVERYONE needs to do EVERYTHING! Plenty of people CAN get by with a very limited device.
Really? Have you ever tried even writing your resume and then printing it out on an iPad? Was it a nice experience for that large amount of editing, layout tweaking, and then hooking up to a $100 Epson printer that was the one you bought cheaply from KMart? (It's not exactly a specialist task.) Or keeping the 10s of GB of photos you've accrued? I'm pretty certain that there is NOBODY who only owns an iPad and does not also own a more traditional PC/laptop device. The iPad is not supplanting the PC market, it is growing a previously underserved market segment.
Re:Benefits by Totenglocke · 2010-05-15 15:40 · Score: 3, Informative

Sounds to me like you want a laptop, not an iPad. Due to this, I'd suggest getting a laptop, not an iPad, since the iPad doesn't seem to fit your use case.
And that's where my issue with Apple lies in regards to the iPad. IMO, Apple is blatantly misrepresenting the iPad as a computer, when in fact, it's not. They want to make it out to be a device that will do all of your computing needs when, even if you just browse the web, the lack of flash alone prevents it from doing that due to the prominence of flash on the internet (I'm not saying anything for or against flash, simply stating a fact that there are a LOT of sites that use flash, including youtube). I'm well aware that us nerds will research the iPad and make a decision to buy one - however, by their own admission for a long time, Apple's target audience is those who aren't too bright and sure as hell won't research a product before buying it. THAT is what irks me, is that they'll market the iPad to Technology-incompetent Tobi as being the device to do everything she could ever want and then she'll buy one, then find out after the fact that it DOESN'T do that (hell, without a COMPUTER to go with it, you can't even put movies / music on it that you don't download through iTunes because it has no usb / card reader).
I may not like the iPad, but I'm not going around telling people not to buy one or that they're stupid for buying one. But I sure wish Apple would be more honest in their marketing, though that goes for a lot of companies....

--
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
Re:Benefits by masmullin · 2010-05-15 16:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not a Mac fan really, but if you look at the specs, Mac machines aren't that much more expensive than their PC counterparts spec-wise
This statement is true ONLY when the products are newly released.
Price spec a Mac Pro right now, and you'll find it's using 14mo old hardware, shitty video cards, and is selling for double the price of a similarly configured PC.
the Mac Pro was reasonably on price when it was just released (the video cards were still shit though... even 14mo ago), and if you priced out the top of the line MP you would have found it cheaper than a similarly configured Dell.
However, that was 14months ago...
Re:Benefits by aralin · 2010-05-15 20:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

I know plenty of people who have computer at work, they do work there and they come home and do not touch or own computer. They might buy an iPad though, to read books or browse web, read email, but they don't need to do anything else beside that. Just because you don't know anybody living without computers or using them just to read email at best doesn't mean that such people don't exist or even are hard to find.

--
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Re:Benefits by perryizgr8 · 2010-05-15 21:29 · Score: 2, Informative

you're wrong. go to apple.com and configure a mac book with 2.26GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB 320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
now go to dell.com and configure a studio 14 with 2.26GHz Intel Core i5, 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
please note that the processor in dell is much much better than that in apple. and that the hdd is 7200 instead of 5400. everything else is more or less same. but the dell has 14" screen compared to 13" in apple.
price:
mac book= $1149
studio 14=$774
i hope this silences all those spouting the 'Mac machines aren't that much more expensive than their PC counterparts spec-wise' nonsense. but i know it won't.

--
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
Re:Benefits by Antisyzygy · 2010-05-16 02:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've been using a pc for 13 years. You know how much down time I've had? Maybe a few days a year. It pays off to have common sense not to click on nefarious links and to read a little bit to know what you are doing. Macs simply are not used by anyone smart enough to make a virus.

--
That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".

Re:I rarely read ValleyWag. by maccodemonkey · 2010-05-15 13:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

"As much as I enjoyed watching SJ take that clown to school, it probably isn't a good idea for him to do so since there's likely to be litigation against his employer in the near future."

Jobs was doing well until he brought up porn.

Porn has been published in every medium known to man since the beginning of time. We have literally found porn cave paintings. Porn is nothing new, and will continue to exist. And as long as it's existed, kids have always gotten their hands on it.

Steve acting as if it was some new fad that Apple is attempting to stem is disturbing. I'm not saying they need to start putting porn in the app store, but c'mon, Apple stopping sideloading so they can keep the iPhone free of porn? There are already ways of getting porn on the device (web), and kids can very easily jailbreak the thing to load on whatever they want. Apple is making a dumb stand on principle.

He told the Gawker editor that he'd understand if he had kids. One has to wonder if this is a result of a bad experience Steve has personally had with his family, and not so much a business decision.

Re:From: "PC Folk" by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-15 13:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yeah, -1 squared is 1. So, is woosh an uprate now, or are you just bad at math?

Sent from my iPad.

Re:Insomnia and stupidity by gavron · 2010-05-15 13:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

Hari Seldon wrote all about it.

E

people don't want to fiddle by fermion · 2010-05-15 13:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

I hate to keep bringing this up, but people don't want to fiddle with machines. They want them to work. Most people I know buy PCs because that is what they use at work and school. They get free software and often free support.

If the iPad can provide the functionality they need, and contrary to the false statement, free p0rn(who wants to pay for an app to pay for p0rn anyway) and let the kids write papers with a bluetooth keyboard and not have updates fail because MS cannot verify via WGA an accuse the user of theft, then why buy anything else?

I feel a little disturbed that I can't change batteries, add memory, or write my own programs like I can on my Mac, but then I don't fix my own car anymore either. The worlds moves on, and one either moves or gets run over. And just look at the unemployment rate in the US to see what happens to those that get run over. Sure you can hold rallies and complain about taxes and blame the immigrants, but you are still run over.

--
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black

Re:people don't want to fiddle by Angst+Badger · 2010-05-15 17:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

The worlds moves on, and one either moves or gets run over. And just look at the unemployment rate in the US to see what happens to those that get run over. Sure you can hold rallies and complain about taxes and blame the immigrants, but you are still run over.
The difference in scale and significance here is awe-inspiring, though it pales beside the energy you've put into swallowing Apple's marketing BS. No one, and I mean absolutely no one is going to be "run over" for ignoring the iPad. It's a goddamn toy, for fuck's sake, not globalism and mass migration. All the iPad does is provide Apple fans with another expensive trinket to feel superior over. Yay for you. At the end of the day, you are not the vanguard of the future, you're just a bunch of middle to upper-middle class consumers buying this season's luxury toy. Apple's current product line has and will have no more broad societal impact than that of their nearest competitors: The Sharper Image and Brookstone.

--
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.

What disappoints me... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2010-05-15 13:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

Is that the guy who decided to go up against Steve did such a tepid job of it.

If you really feel like trying to piss Jobs off for his control-freakery and insistence on building Computers Where The Trains Run on Time, you don't just whine about "freedom", you throw his past as an ostensibly anti-establishment maverick in his face.

"So, Steve, you finally got rid of those slots that Woz was always sneaking in to things, and have even managed to build a (walled) garden of pure ideology, where each user may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory runtimes and confusing languages..."

Re:From: "PC Folk" by salesgeek · 2010-05-15 13:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

Past performance does not indicate future results.

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-- $G

Re:From: "PC Folk" by jcr · 2010-05-15 13:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

Didn't we despise Microsoft because of how successful they were?

Maybe you did, but my objection to them was for the multiple crimes they committed, and the dismal quality of their products.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Re:From: "PC Folk" by maxume · 2010-05-15 13:52 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm somewhat skeptical that they can continue to execute, but doing the math, a couple of million iPads is only about 5% of their revenues (likely less, it takes aggressive price estimates to get that high), so who knows.

It also depends on how fast their hardware markets cycles, I'm not sure that the majority of people buying iPads today are going to be ready to buy a new one in 2 or 3 years (but maybe people really are that spendy; I'm typing this on a 4 year old laptop that replaced a 1997 desktop...).

--
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.

Ah, yes; "freedom from." by Millennium · 2010-05-15 14:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

Negative freedoms: the biggest load of BS to infect pop sociology in the last century. When someone claims to offer or desire "freedom from" anything, run for the hills, because they are either too naive to understand the costs or too traumatized to care. Neither viewpoint is healthy.

Re:Ah, yes; "freedom from." by The+Second+Horseman · 2010-05-15 16:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

"Freedom from censorship" is "freedom of expression". "Freedom from discrimination" is "equal rights under the law". "Freedom from murder" - well, again, since you presumably have a right to life and liberty, yes, murdering you abridges that right. But it's not a "freedom from".
Rights are better stated in the affirmative. If you talk about all the things you should be protected against (since that's somewhat limitless), it's difficult to enumerate all of them. Stating an affirmative right ("freedom of expression" or "freedom of religion") makes it clear that there are few, if any exceptions, unless it tramples on someone else's affirmatively stated rights.
Re:Ah, yes; "freedom from." by 517714 · 2010-05-15 17:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

You may think you have the freedom to do something, but in actuality, the government is prohibited from preventing you from engaging in that activity. Freedom of speech is really freedom from government interference in your speech. The most important freedoms we enjoy are "freedoms from".

--
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
Re:Ah, yes; "freedom from." by dangitman · 2010-05-15 17:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

No. Freedom from murder isn't freedom, nor is freedom from discrimination, or freedom from government censorship.
Why not? How about freedom from slavery? I think there are quite a few million people who would agree that their freedom from slavery is an actual freedom.

(not to mention incorrect... you can still be murdered or discriminated or censored).
This is a nonsensical argument. You have the right to liberty, freedom of speech, etc. That doesn't mean those rights can't be infringed. Are you saying that the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are meaningless because it is physically possible to violate those laws? You're completely missing the point.

--
... and then they built the supercollider.
Re:Ah, yes; "freedom from." by Kohath · 2010-05-15 19:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

All those folks who wanted freedom from slavery just didn't understand the big picture, huh?
Freedom from something harmful, like spam and viruses (to get back on topic a little) is great when you're being harmed.
In fact, the negative freedoms are really the only ones we're entitled to. Free expression is just freedom from someone forcing you to shut up, for example.
The freedom to express yourself is all too often confused with "gimme a government grant" so I can get high and be a sculptor instead of getting a job and being a grownup.
Re:Ah, yes; "freedom from." by dangitman · 2010-05-15 19:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

You should really *think* about the words you type rather than parrot what you hear on TV.
That's an ironic statement, given how little thought you have put into your words.

There is a difference between freedom of speech *which grants you the ability to say what you want-it additionally grants speech to the list of freedoms you already enjoy* vs freedom from being murdered *which is just a retards way of defining "security of person"* Freedom is different from security...

I never said anything about security. Do you have reading comprehension problems?

Freedom from government censorship is a silly way of saying "freedom of speech."
They are two different things, but they are both meaningful. "Freedom" has many different shades of meaning. For example: when I am on vacation, I am free from the duties of my job. So, please explain again how "freedom from" is not a valid term.

If you hear anyone ever speak the words "freedom from government censorship" ask them "do you mean free speech, because if you do, just say free speech."
But "free speech" can have meanings other than "freedom from government censorship," so they aren't equivalent.

the point *I* am making is that your verbiage and general use of language is based on parroting nonsensical statements you hear on TV.

That would be a stupid thing to say, because it is not.

The GGGP is explaining that the term "freedom from" is BS. There is no such thing as a negative freedom (a "freedom from"), you cannot take away something and expect a higher degree of freedom.
That's completely nonsensical. Saying "freedom from" is not a "negative freedom" - that's just a made-up term that makes no sense. It's Orwellian doublespeak. We can't be free if we aren't free from certain things, like oppression.
How is saying that one should be "free from tyranny" at odds with saying one should be "have freedom of liberty"? They are just different expressions of a similar sentiment.

--
... and then they built the supercollider.

Somethings slipping away... by nickdwaters · 2010-05-15 14:04 · Score: 2, Informative

The only thing I see slipping is Steve's grip on reality. The Apple world is infitesimal compared to PC.

Re:I rarely read ValleyWag. by maccodemonkey · 2010-05-15 14:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

"Well, sure there's going to be porn on the iPhone too, but Apple's not going to be the company that delivers it."

There is a difference between Apple delivering porn, and Apple attempting to stop everyone else from delivering it.

I've worked for an organization that buys Apple products in several thousand batches (they're the biggest spenders on Apple products in education in their respective state. And the state in question is a west coast state that is very big on technology.) The major holdup with the iPad has been sideloading. It's very difficult for an organization to manage iPads en masse when they can't even manage the deployed software easily. The lack of sideloading was first blamed on mobile applications threatening cell networks (which everyone knows is a load of bull), and then more recently, porn.

The organization in question currently runs off Macbooks. The kids have loaded porn on the Macbooks. Before that we had desktop machines. The kids loaded porn on those. Hell, I remember before we had computers and the kids brought porno magazines to school. Yes, we were concerned about porn, but it was nothing new.

While Apple restricting the device makes it easier for us to enforce discipline, it also cuts us off at the knees and almost makes the iPad a non starter in enterprise. Yes, Apple does offer a private app store for your organization. But that doesn't really mean much when we need a way of loading software onto thousands of devices at once.

Apple is supposedly sending engineers to my old employer to look at these issues. I hope it results in an improvement to the manageability of iPhone OS.

Re:From: "PC Folk" by mister_playboy · 2010-05-15 14:12 · Score: 2, Funny

sqrt(-1), Whoosh

--
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will

Re:Insomnia and stupidity by nacturation · 2010-05-15 14:23 · Score: 5, Funny

Jobs' empire is falling down around him. All hail FOSS, Linux, Android, and no more closed-source.

It is, after all, the 10th anniversary of the year of Linux on the desktop.

--
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.

Re:From: "PC Folk" by nacturation · 2010-05-15 14:26 · Score: 5, Funny

sqrt(-1), Whoosh

Well played. It's the all new iWhoosh.

--
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.

All the cursing by KrugalSausage · 2010-05-15 14:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

I find it funny that Ryan Tate is unable to engage in rational dialog without cursing (cursing is the analog to yelling in real life), especially when he has a chance to actually engage with the most well known CEO on the planet. He squandered it and comes away looking like an ass.

"Sent from my iPad" by ClosedSource · 2010-05-15 14:59 · Score: 4, Funny

Why, did you do something with your iPad that was unauthorized by Apple?

Re:I rarely read ValleyWag. by jcr · 2010-05-15 15:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

There is a difference between Apple delivering porn, and Apple attempting to stop everyone else from delivering it.

Sure there'ss a difference, and Apple isn't trying to stop anyone else from delivering it. Try it for yourself: go to any porn site with Mobile Safari. Apple's not going to host porn apps on the App store, and that's a good business decision.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Future thinking is not decided on the exact 1st... by bussdriver · 2010-05-15 15:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

IF the iPad is the future; the future will NOT be iPads all over, it will an evolution of the concepts that made it so big that will change everything and people will point back to the source of that to the iPad; or for the technology, back to the Newton, PC Tablet, and iPhone - but mostly back to the iPad.

Expect heavy bitching to create competitors and nudge apple into other directions. The ubuntu like app stores will continue to be popular - and the list will continue to be filtered to a select few to cut down on the bloat of crap software. Apple is protecting their experience by acting as a gateway now and it has proven effective; but at some point it could change.

The 1st mac changed the world forever. It wasn't the 1st on all of it, they payed xerox for secrets that the public didn't know about. The computers today are quite different but they are BASED upon that early mac.

The iPad could very well be the future of laptop computing for MOST of the world of the future and while the tablet PC was 1st (or arguably the Newton) and the others didn't win over the public; like the iPod came in late in the game; as well as the iPhone.

I will not buy an iPad. Its not good enough or open enough for me yet.

--
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news

Re:From: "PC Folk" by FreonTrip · 2010-05-15 16:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

If you believe the fact that they included a browser with their OS was even the primary issue, you haven't been paying attention.

Re:Except Apple is not interested in "winning" by Shag · 2010-05-15 16:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

In countries were [sic] people earn a few $1,000 a year or even a few hundred, I don't see how Apple could make a product cheap enough to make $$.

I spent 2 weeks in Uganda at the beginning of this year. (There was a nice annular solar eclipse.) Per-capita GDP is about $1,300. Of course, that's an average - some folks make less, some make more - and includes kids and whatever.

Anyway, anyone who makes enough above that average has an iPod. At least a shuffle or a nano. People who can afford one - say, managers - have an iPhone 3G S. There are ads for the iPhone all over Kampala. There's an Apple authorized reseller downtown.

There's also a lot of counterfeit product from China in the market, which is a lot cheaper and typically breaks after a few months. It's interesting to go to a market that doesn't have the level of IP law and trade regulation in place that the US does.

--
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.

One and the same by pizzach · 2010-05-15 16:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

Call me a heretic, but I like both Steve Jobs and Stallman. I would rather have both or none rather than just one. They each are both ballzy and push for what they want to see in their respective ecosystems. In the case of Stallman's ecosystem (GNewSense), flash doesn't exist either and all closed source blobs must die. You can't tell me this doesn't cause restrictions.

Steve Jobs is a crazy man who has time and time pushed for things that people thought were ridiculous and would never fly. The thing I like the most about Jobs is he keeps getting Apple to do things against the corporate grain that makes the companies around them shat their pants. I wouldn't think investors in a publicly traded company would allow him to do things like not license patents on multitouch etc.

My 5 cents anyway.

--
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.

An Ode to the Beauty and the Horror! by bknack · 2010-05-15 16:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

I got a PC.
I found I could configure it endlessly. Tailor it perfectly. Oh, the Beauty!
My friends wanted to use their PCs. They got lost is a maze of configuration hell. Oh the Horror!

I got a MacBook.
*Gasp* I could barely configure it at all! The Horror!!
My friends didn't notice as they got down to Beautiful work.

I agree with everything Steve Jobs is trying to do with his devices. He lets us use them his way. Oh, and if we play ball they work! *Bonus*

I hate the constrains Steve Jobs puts on me!

Here's the secret... wait for it...
Steve knows (and I know he knows) that folks like me will ultimately thank him because:
1. Our friends don't have to constantly ask for our help to de-virus, un-malware, re-install the thing after they shoot themselves in the foot with it *Beauty!*
2. We just jailbreak the thing (the Horror and the Beauty) and now Steve (I bought the device) and I (I stepped out of the walled garden but won't blame Apple for any problems I have) are both happy.

Cheers,
Bruce.

--
Bruce A. Knack
Silicon Surfers

Steve Jobs. Nerd Status : REVOKED! by Jackie_Chan_Fan · 2010-05-15 16:57 · Score: 2, Funny

Steve Jobs broke the sacred rule. He's taking a stand against porn.

Steve Jobs... You're NERD Status has been REVOKED!

You're now one of them... ew.

Obligatory "don't buy it" post. by mosb1000 · 2010-05-15 17:05 · Score: 2, Informative

Just because no one else has said it:

You don't actually need to buy it. So this is a new choice, something you can choose to buy. Obviously, Steve has not required you to use it. So if you want to choose those things buy an iPad, otherwise, don't.

Got my Ipad specifically for Pr0n,just dont get it by lostinmadnez · 2010-05-15 17:40 · Score: 2, Funny

I thought thats what Iphone and Ipad were all about, rip all my hd's full of pr0n into h264 so I can haz with me at all times. And now I can "touch" too! Magic

What the fuck is wrong with you people? by binary+paladin · 2010-05-15 18:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

Seriously? This is easily one of the stupidest fucking discussions I have ever seen on this site. Every dumb ass analogy there is has been used. Every unnecessary soap box has been stood on.

Hate the closed nature of the iPad and iPhone? Don't buy them. Do those devices simply not meet you business needs? Don't buy them. Think you know more about marketing a device than Apple? You're fucking deluded.

Is Apple somehow preventing you from buying and using other devices and services? No.

So what the fuck is the big deal?

I own a Mac. I love it. All the best computers I have ever owned have been made by Apple. They meet MY needs and have done so better than any other computer. Will you have the same results? Honestly, I don't give a shit. I have an Android phone. I love it. It has a physical keyboard, I don't need iTunes to use it, the ssh client was free, it's an AT&T exclusive and I can currently run Pandora in the background. See what I did there? Apple's product in that space didn't do what I wanted it to so, instead of freaking out about it and crying about Apple's "stupid" policies, I bought something else. Until that choice no longer exists, the rest of this talk about closed versus open systems and censorship and walled gardens is utterly pointless.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with you people? by lacoronus · 2010-05-15 21:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

Not only do I have the right to not buy iPads or iAnything, I also have the right to tell others why they should not buy them.
This whole "if you don't like them, don't buy them, but for God's sake, don't tell anyone about your opinion" is pure BS. After all, if Apple and their supporters take the right to tell me why the iPad is superior to other products (that they presumably haven't bought), I should be able to do the same. I don't buy Microsoft Office, and I also tell people why using native Office formats is bad. I won't buy an iPad, and I'll tell people why.
Re:What the fuck is wrong with you people? by AnonymousClown · 2010-05-15 23:20 · Score: 2, Informative

This is easily one of the stupidest fucking discussions I have ever seen on this site. Every dumb ass analogy there is has been used. Every unnecessary soap box has been stood on.
See, its like this. Imagine if you see folks driving a car to go and pick up a pizza with a Nazi....

--
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

Bug Report by aaron+p.+matthews · 2010-05-15 18:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Description:
Transitory phrase for incidental topic is ineffective.

Actual Result:
By the way, what have you done that's so great?

Expected Result:
One more thing... what have you done that's so great?

silly by roman_mir · 2010-05-15 19:19 · Score: 3, Informative

I am no apple user (no iToys of any kind) but this is just silly.

Talking about Freedoms with a corporation about a product they roll out as if those are real Freedoms.

Carlin was right: It is all an illusion, an elaborate illusion of Freedom. You have no Freedoms. You have a Freedom to chose between Government parties, both of which will fuck you, the difference is that one will be Fucking you and enjoying it, the other will be Fucking you and probably bitching about how they really Love you.

Freedom of choice is not about gadgets, it's not about the latest iFad bullshit. It is really about your economic and political Freedoms and in a world with real Freedoms you'll find a stupid PAD that you personally like from some company who will inevitably produce one.

'Consumption Based Economy' - what a load of croak. Any retarded pissing himself idiot can consume. Production is the only way to generate wealth and the money is not wealth but only a medium of exchange. Wealth is in production. Consumption always comes as a response to production.

What an amazing world we live in. People used to die for Freedom - as in dying for Freedom not to be fucked over by someone's idea of how to run their lives and today we are talking about a stupid fake computer with limited capabilities as if a company locking out applications on it is the most serious violation of Freedoms. I guess we have figured out all of the other Non-Freedoms, like the Governments printing money and taking away the value of it from everyone, like the Corporations buying the Governments and destroying competition and becoming gigantic Monopolies that run everything. Where is your iFreedom, is it in the Apple store? Don't they have an app for that?

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You can't handle the truth.

Steve is just not that smart. by crhylove · 2010-05-15 20:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Besides not really being the brains behind any of Apple's success (frankly, I'd credit Woz and others), he has clearly failed to learn from past mistakes.

The original Mac was YEARS ahead of any PC at the time. Literally, vastly superior. But by pricing them too high, and locking in control over the OS and over the ability of devs to write for it, the PC inevitably surpassed it in sales almost over night.

Fast forward a decade, and the same battle is happening again in the smart phone market. Besides being locked to AT&T, arguably the WORST cell provider in the nation, his hardware is over priced, and again, he's stuck with this outdated idea that vendor lock in is somehow going to guarantee Apple's success. There is literally no chance of that, and in fact, iPhone et al are doomed to failure absolutely by not providing a free and open platform for other vendors to write apps for. Android is clearly going to continue to dominate sales, and inevitably win the over all battle, just like Windows did last time.

Why does anybody even listen to Steve any more? Just because he's first to market? It's not like 8,000 other monkeys didn't have the idea for the iPhone before he did. He just got it to market first. BIG DEAL.

Steve is clearly too arrogant to grasp even the mildest of fundamental truths about human nature, particularly as it relates to sales and market share. Even the Mac Fanboys are getting sick of his blatant stupidity and selfish draconian lock in attempts, that will of course only serve to ensure that Apple fails, long term.

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I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.

porn by Swampash · 2010-05-15 22:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

Steve said: "And you might care more about porn when you have kids" My kids are the greatest thing in my life. I wake up every day and praise the Universe for blessing me with such wonderful children. And I wouldn't have them without porn.

Solutions by SuperKendall · 2010-05-15 23:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

The biggest problem has always been user attitude and actions, something which is often WORSE on Mac than it is elsewhere due to the prevalent belief that "Macs can't get virus/malware!".

For around five years now the Mac has been free of viruses and malware. So who has been more wrong, the person who rightfully believes the platform is free of malware or the person who thinks if something may someday have malware it is eqivilent to having it?

When users stop running as admin and stop clicking pretty screensaver ads then we'll have made some real progress

Congratlulations, you just "got" the iPad. When a platform that has already enjoyed years if actual freedom from viruses and malware makes it nearly impossible for non-technical users to run as admin, does at least an overview of apps for sale while sandboxing them from the system and each other - well that system is going to be more secure, and indeed as you said real progress has been made.

I think the other things Jobs described as freedoms are something else. But freedom from Viruses and Malware is in fact a freedom, which I know now from many years of enjoying it. That's the thing about frreedom, you know it when you have it, whatever form it takes.

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

Its just a large ipod touch by uneek · 2010-05-16 00:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why is everyone making such a big deal about a supersized ipod touch?

What Steve Jobs did that was revolutionary by V!NCENT · 2010-05-16 01:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

Create a company.
Put together some MIT licensed software and create yet another OS.
Designed computers after 70's Braun industrial design.
Made it work well.
Got people to buy his products due to great marketing.
Decided not to want Flash.
Decided it could only be programmed with their own API's. .... ....

Made money.

So what's so revolutionary about making a sleek tablet pc? Nothing.

I like that he wants to kill Flash, but that's about it. So in the meantime I can browse the web freely with my Linux netbook and desktop and not have to worry about an electronics company.

Next...

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Here be signatures

Re:That Super Car already exists by daviddennis · 2010-05-16 02:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

That last paragraph is exactly why Apple devices are locked down. You can't mess up your iPhone or iPad unless you deliberately set out to do so.

It's a good deal for a lot of people. Admittedly, almost none of then are Slashdotters. In my case I have both an iMac and an iPad and love both of them for what they do.

D

Market-share can be lost by javajeff · 2010-05-16 04:29 · Score: 2, Informative

Just because they are gaining market-share, they can lose it just as fast. When a new restaurant opens up, everyone goes to try it out. What can happen is that people realize that Apple is no different than every other technology company. Their stuff breaks, other products are incompatible, and getting stuff fixed can be expensive. People will realize after a while, that they cannot do everything they want to do and go back to what they had before. Trends are just trends.

My rare, reluctant agreement with Jobs by KingTank · 2010-05-16 05:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

For computing I prefer Linux, and to a lesser extent, even MS. But I think Jobs has a point about freedom. Freedom can mean different things. We're accustomed to thinking of freedom in the grand terms of human rights, but that only applies in a vast, over-arching governmental or societal context. I think we have to get used to the idea that in a smaller context, the concept of freedom can sometimes be something more limited, petty or banal. Yes, freedom from porn is a petty, but not completely worthless, kind of freedom. No doubt it provides some value to a lot of his customers. As computers become relentlessly more and more powerful and pervasive, innovators will come up with more and more ways to provide these little freedoms that some of us roll our eyes at, but provide value to others.

Re:From: "PC Folk" by Bigjeff5 · 2010-05-16 08:53 · Score: 2, Interesting

It seems to be the only thing the EU was able to get out of the whole situation, so with their absurd handling of the fallout it's hard not to think the only thing Microsoft did was bundle the Browser. It's all they are apparently being punished for now.

In truth bundling the browser wasn't even the crime, it was strong arming OEM's into not bundling Netscape. All you need to do is punish them for that, and make sure the consequences for a repeat offense are significantly more dire, and the problem is solved. Instead they're doing strange browser selection bullshit. It's weird.

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Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller

Re:From: "PC Folk" by mjwx · 2010-05-16 13:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

Didn't we despise Microsoft because of how successful they were?

Maybe you did, but my objection to them was for the multiple crimes they committed, and the dismal quality of their products.

Now Apple is doing the exact same thing MS did back in the 80's and getting a free pass.

I guess those who do not learn from history.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.

real artists ship, bullshit artists bullshit... by vaporland · 2010-05-16 16:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why does anybody even listen to Steve any more? Just because he's first to market? It's not like 8,000 other monkeys didn't have the idea for the iPhone before he did. He just got it to market first. BIG DEAL.

To quote Mr. Jobs, "Real artists ship". $99 for a smartphone? It's expensive? You know of a cheaper one, equally capable? To paraphrase, bullshit artists bullshit, real artists ship..

People listen to Steve because he delivers the goods.

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Ask Me About... The 80's!

Jobs = God? by Askmum · 2010-05-16 18:36 · Score: 2, Interesting

Already after the first reply from Steve I was confirmed in my thinking that Jobs is an absolute and total twat. What, that he decides for me that I can not watch porn constitutes freedom for him? I am so fortunate that my PC world is not slipping away from me. I am so relieved that I actually have a choice what to install on my PC and what I can watch and what not. And then He talks about freedom? It is the freedom the likes of Kim Yong Il and Mao fight for. That's no freedom, that's oppression.

And really, explain to me (having no kids) what the thing is about porn and kids. When I was really young, porn didn't interest me, but I did play doctor with some of my (girl) friends when I was 8. And by the time I was 14 I was going out of my way to look at the nudiemagazines. So, that's bad? Why?

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