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Porn Ban Being Considered In South Africa
krou writes "Deputy Minister of Home Affairs Malusi Gigaba has gone to South Africa's Law Reform Commission to see whether the law can be changed to allow a complete ban of digitally distributed pornography. Gigaba has also been in discussion with The Justice Alliance of South Africa, 'a coalition of corporations, individuals, and churches committed to upholding and fighting for justice and the highest moral standards in South African society,' which has written its own draft bill regarding the issue, which covers the banning of pornography on television, mobile phones, and the Web. Using a car analogy, Mr. Gigaba said, 'Cars are already provided with brakes and seatbelts.... There is no reason why the Internet should be provided without the necessary restrictive mechanisms built into it.' Related documents and the JASA's proposed bill can be found online, one of which has the wonderful title 'A reasonable and justifiable limitation on Freedom of Expression and Right to Privacy.'"
if they use that model, that would be fine.
Because I can choose to hit the brakes or not as I see fit. If harm comes from my failure to use them, then I suffer the consequences. If not, no problem.
Thus, I expect them to implement a filter than can be applied or not applied as the user sees fit, and leave it up to them to apply it judiciously.
I have no problem with this model, if so applied.
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
So the cars without seatbelts have to drive in one set of tubes, and the cars with seatbelts drive in different tubes, and some of those tubes aren't allowed to go into SA airspace? Ok, I think I get it.....
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
Who wants to see Winnie Mandela nude?
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Ban it so I won't be tempted into the darkside.
Racist.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
He's exactly right. This is why we print newspapers and books on flash paper, for instance, in case the ideas they contain are found to be dangerous and need to be restricted. The same logic also explains the censors who sit in on university classes to cover students' ears and hum loudly when the professor expresses views which are not in the mainstream.
Shouldn't they be concentrating on more important stuff?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_South_Africa
http://www.avert.org/aidssouthafrica.htm
So I guess they solved all of the other societal and economic problems in South Africa now, that they are considering this porn ban.
I don't know of any other single thing that can rile up the masses as much as this nonsense, this including killing of kittens and puppies and eating little babies with some tomato sauce. Well maybe not the masses, but I sure would be quite irritated.
You can't handle the truth.
Once you've climbed the hill past every other questionable component of human behavior, why not ban porn? You're past racism and oppression and outright murder of whatever race isn't the one in power. And starvation. And everyone has enough water. And you can grow all the food you need. And you haven't sold everything under the ground to companies that will burn everything above making room to dig.
No one is actively raping and pillaging their neighbors. People's homes aren't being burned with government approval. You won't be murdered and your gold teeth pried out if you ride a Kombi outside Johannesburg. Not everyone you meet has aids and does nothing to prevent its spread.
So yeah why not tackle porn?
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
...a mass exodus of the male population of South Africa is beginning to occur.
10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
20 DRINK COFFEE
30 GOTO 10
The summary tries to drum up angst about the title of the bill, but when you think about it for a couple seconds, it becomes evident that it's actually just the most honest bill title you'll ever see. I'm not saying anything about whether their "reasonable and justifiable" limitations are reasonable and justifiable in my opinion. Clearly they are in their opinion however, and they have entitled their bill thusly. Here in the USA, if this same bill was attempted, it'd probably have a cryptic title with lots of numbers in it that don't tell you anything about what it does/says/means. At least this bill TELLS you that it's fucking with your freedoms.
So Bravo, I say, to whoever penned the title to this bill. Good to see a government not hiding behind the curtains of obfuscation.
PS: Let's not forget that there're more than a couple bills in whatever land you're hailing from that likely could be titled similarly, because when it gets right down to it, some limitation of "freedom of expression" is needed. We just tend to call them murder laws instead, but there's no reason why they have to be called that.
Ban it so I won't be tempted into the darkside.
Racist.
Go and blackmale him. That'll teach him.
Ezekiel 23:20
That's something that could be questioned. But of course not, if your organization includes "churches". Sex (as long as all participants are of full age and voluntary) is only immoral in the eyes of religious fanatics. Porn equals pictures and movies of sex, So you can apply the rule here too. It's not a matter of "moral" but of a certain belief system.
Cars come with steering wheels that let me go where ever I want, even if it is an off road adventure in some nasty, sticky muck.
Cars come with radiator caps so if too much pressure builds up, the hot fluids are released into an overflow tank.
... because nothing wrong ever rises from people who are "committed to upholding and fighting for justice and the highest moral standards". They obviously know what is better for everyone, moral value being an objective one. I cant' wait until a representative of my country begins thinking "Hey, they're doing it, why wouldn't we?".
There's no scientific consensus that life is important.
I had a brief look at the opinion piece on the JASA website, and its argument is basically "think of the children", which (according to them) trumps free speech:
Section 28 of the Bill of Rights states "A child's best interests are of paramount importance in every matter concerning the child.". Previous court rulings have said that the state 'must provide the legal and administrative infrastructure necessary to ensure that children are accorded the protection contemplated by S28.'
The Bill of Rights also notes that 'The rights ... may be limited only in terms of law of general application to the extent that the limitation is reasonable and justifiable in an open and democratic society based on human dignity, equality and freedom, taking into account all relevant factors', which include things like the nature of the right, its purpose etc. So, while they recognise pornography as free speech etc, they also "think of the children", which as we all know overrules any other concern.
'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
You are calling racism over a Star Wars reference? Are you working for the DNC or something?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Block porn in the most sexually abusive country in the world. What could possibly go wrong?
While I am sure that these corporations, individuals and churches mean well, the problem comes when one tries to actually write laws that only limit the "wrong" sorts of speech. As Justice Potter Stewart once famously said, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it". If a law is worded strongly enough to limit "pornography" then it can probably be used to limit other types of speech as well; speech which the original authors perhaps didn't intend to limit, but have silenced all the same. I hope that these South Africans would consider carefully how this sort of law might be used by future authorities. What if their intentions in using the "anti-speech" law are not as noble as the current authors? IMHO, the bar for restricting speech should be very high and narrow indeed and if that means that we have to put up with "Internet porn" to have truly free speech then I would call that a bargain.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They'll need it!
South Africa is the rape capital of the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#South_Africa
Why are the more worried about porn than actual crimes? Any logical person can see that banning porn would likely make the rape situation even worse. I'm glad to see they've got their priorities straight.
The whole world seems to be in a state of insanity regarding porn at the moment. We've got the Australia's small breast ban and cartoon laws, Canada's Cartoon laws, the UK's Extreme Pornography laws, the US's Obscenity Laws and Agnes Chan leading the lunacy in Japan. Could I ask these moral crusaders to kindly fuck off.
Sure, apartheid was evil and cruel. Yeah, we all cheered when Nelson Mandela was elected President. They had our hopes, investments, and prayers. We all waved our plastic lighters when Paul Simon brought all those beautiful black Zulu singers on stage in the Graceland tour. We all believed.
Then we woke up. We found that South Africa has become the rape capital of the world. We found that most people there are superstitious and ignorant, and violent. Where most people still believe that drinking the blood of 13-year-old virgin cures AIDS. (It doesn't, guys, just in case you were wondering) Where the few remaining whites running productive farms in the countryside are hunted down, tortured, and murdered by the new South African police that just look the other way and call it justice. Where most international investments are skimmed by corrupt and incompetent government officials. Where no blacks outside of the government are better off than they were under apartheid. Where the whites have reestablished semi-segregated quasi-homelands with their own police and self-defense forces that mirror apartheid. Where nobody in their right mind is going to spend thousands of dollars to fly to this dangerous and remote part of the world just to watch a soccer game.
Africa is a giant mess. A half-assed collection of 'daylight democracies' and nighttime tribal savageries. South Africa is no different. And how do they deal with their problems.
Banning internet porn. Fucking buffoons. Bring back the Boers.
Exactly - just give everyone a state-subsidised WoW subscription, bingo.
Why does the middle class all live behind huge fences and pay big $$$ for private security?
because if they dont pay security big money then the local gangs will
i asked a customer of mine why he moved out of the country, he said he was fed up of waking up worried that his own security was going to rob him (apparently its common)
the wealth disparity is massive in SA and the poor are desperate, uneducated, angry and lazy
when a man has nothing to lose he has everything to gain
So cars should be banned because 1)kids play in the street and 2)some child might attempt to drive one, resulting in an accident.
Perhaps we should go back to the rules ARPA set up for the network: No users under 18 allowed.
Have gnu, will travel.
Shouldn't they be dealing with their crime problem instead? That would actually be useful and not ab attempt to ram "morality standards" down the throats of their citizens. This whole thing reeks of a diversion attempt to cover up their own incompetence when it comes to solving true problems.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Are separate things. Don't confuse the two, or you end up with the following annoying conversation:
"You got your laws in my morals!"
"You got your morals in my laws!"
What about the child's right to be exposed to parts of the world that aren't perfectly safe, so that they grow up before they're 30? Keep someone from skinning their knees or hearing "dirty" words until they're 18 then see how "productive" or mature they'll be at 22.
Why are they only talking about _digital_ porn? If it's an ethical issue, does the delivery method really matter?
But I would guess that a lot of the money from digital porn never gets within the taxman's grasp. Porn sold through the usual distribution channels can be more easily taxed.
So maybe the thinking is: Ban digital porn and porn will go back "above ground", where the taxman can get his hands on it.
As if the populous of slashdot needs instruction on finding internet porn pppft...
Ocean is land, covered with water.
I believe you missed the joke there. May wanna get your humour detector checked out before you go running around the internet again.
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
Merge a Sun "blackbox" with a support trailer and then figure out a way to transport it to some deep area in South Africa. rig the trailer as a datacenter/ sat com link and then tell like everybody that you have FREE PORN (donations accepted of course)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Ban it so I won't be tempted into the darkside.
Racist.
Go and blackmale him. That'll teach him.
Come to the darkside, we have cookies and Tracy Lords.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
'Cars are already provided with brakes and seatbelts... There is no reason why the internet should be provided without the necessary restrictive mechanisms built into it.'
There is no line of thinking that would make a reasonable person make this direct comparison. Cars are dangerous tools. They can physically injure or kill you. Porn will not. Despite what some people may believe, porn is not dangerous. People are dangerous. People who seriously make this kind of comparison are dangerous.
"Ban it so I won't be tempted into the darkside"
If thine eye offend thee, have the balls to pluck it out. You won't need it in Paradise.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Yes, online porn is clearly the biggest problem in South Africa. I hear it kills a lot of people down there and steals their cars at unwatched intersections...
I live in South Africa, and I know for a fact that at most 20% of the population have semi-regular access to the Internet, as can be seen from this handy graph on Google http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=it_net_user&idim=country:ZAF&dl=en&hl=en&q=internet+users+in+south+africa (it estimates 4.187 million internet users, where we have a population of between 40 and 50 million). This is a country where the absolute maximum internet speed is 4Mbps (on average most users have 384kbps), and it is literally cheaper to go buy a dvd in the shop than it is to download the 4GB illegally. This is just to bring the internet situation into perspective. I know that you do not need an internet connection to have porn, it could be a video, dvd or even just copied from someone else, but this is just an indication of the kind access we have here. A recent study found that as many as 50% of high school boys in SA have watched at least one porn movie. I don't know, but the only shocking thing about that is that so many people have had access to it (we only have 4 public TV channels, and only one of them shows porn after 12 on Saturday nights). This is just some background information. A ban on porn would be just another ill-directed attempt to improve the morals of a society where politicians (the role models of the people) routinely threaten other races with death, partake in tender fraud and tax evasion, are charged with rape and watch porn during congress. On second thought, maybe it will at least help the politicians concentrate on what's really going on in the country.
The industries oldest profession is hurting form online sales. They even give it away for free!(shudder) They also evade taxation.
require all porn in Africa to have attached front and back end and commercials within, information on the prevention of unwanted children and aids.
They really need to learn about this stuff.
Did his company actually loose money for the new owners in the 15 years that has passed ? If so it was the exception rather than the rule. South Africa's share market have made decent returns in real term under the ANC. And those returns look even better after converting to USD. Compared to the Dow which has been stuck at 10,000.
Yes, there is racial tension and tribal affairs. But slow and steady progress is being made: Yesterday tens of thousands of white rugby descended on the predominantly black township of Soweto to watch the Super 14 Rugby final. Afterwards many Whites partied in Black owned bars without incident.
Porn is for weenies, but if they really need it there should be a separate "open" network so that, for example, if my 12 year old daughter Googles "eating bananas" she's not subjected a picture of a pair of losers getting and giving a blow jobs. South Africa, for once they're ahead of the curve.
from the Cervantes Institute of Reality Ignorance. The award, called "Tilting at Windmills" is awarded to the most impossible and pointless decision regarding governance.
One thing there's no shortage of, anywhere in the world.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Moral relativism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. It is also I suppose morally right for a country to execute homosexuals, whip adulterers and sell children as sex slaves as well?
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
who else can picture the number of rapes to skyrocket if there was suddenly no porn?
Wow people, if I would have read this then I would have gotten a very grim outlook on South Africa. There is ~4mil white people in South Africa controlling 48% of the country's income. That means, white South Africans are rich and is really benefitting from the country. I am extremely rich when comparing myself with the rest of my fellow countrymen. I bought a new Honda Jazz (Fit in the US) last year, I stay in a 3 bedroom house in a relative middle income area (Melville, close to Johannesburg CBD). I went to Germany for 6 weeks last year to integrate our company's cool new IS Voip Android phone. I'm turning 24 on next Sunday. Saturday afternoon I've picked up a black man near Kempton Park (the predominantly white area) trying to hitch-hike. He is ~40, he ran a street shoe repair and sandal making business and has a wife with 2 daughters. He told the gruesome tale of how he was mugged, stabbed and his lifelyhood taken away from him (they stole his phone, money and tools). That day he hitch-hiked with smart office clothes on (tie, leather shoes, white shirt, chinos) because he was turned away as shelf packer. He was on his way to Klerksdorp (190 km away from where I've picked him up) to get food and money from his uncle so that his family can stay alive. Whites are more protected from crime because of the money they pay to stay safe. In my middle class area I can walk safely at night. He, staying in Thembisa, cannot say the same. So in terms of me and my own (white) story, South Africa is a wonderful place full of opportunities. We as a country are growing, we are cleaning up our communities, we are trying to lift our moral standards. Yes, we have a (black) corrupt government that is not out for the upliftment of the (black) populance (but only for their own bank accounts), but the people are savvy'ing up to the fact. Give it 4 years and we may see a change in government. There are a more than just a few non-corrupt ones in government that is trying to make a positive change. And yes, explisit material exposure is a moral cancer. You do not even have to leave your TV room to watch a strip show, just watch MTV. Sexting, trafficking, prostitution is even entering our schools where children even at the age of 11 (I'm talking about boys, not girls) get sexually active. Girls even at the age of 7 gets pimped out by their families. I for one am support the minister's call for an end to porn and will even support her for the end of the adult material industry in South Africa. If you want to watch it, import and watch as you please but this shit needs to stop in my country. http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/ http://www.statssa.gov.za/ http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article472923.ece/DA-takes-Gugulethu