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Indian Government Threatens RIM, Skype With Ban
gauharjk writes "India's Department of Telecommunications has been asked by the government to serve a notice to Skype and Research In Motion to ensure that their email and other data services comply with formats that can be read by security and intelligence agencies, or face a ban in India if they do not comply within 15 days. A similar notice is also being sent to Google, asking it to provide access to content on Gmail in a readable format."
The terrorists used mobile phones and tools like Google Earth to plan, coordinate and execute the operations, India and Israel have been howling about those tools ever since.
How will they post their homework problems on comp.lang.c++ for us to solve?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Glad I don't correspond with anyone in India.
Yeah, you're doing it wrong. Just use MITM DNS attacks to use fake SSL certs.
Love, China.
we need more taxpayers here in the US.
But you don't see me complaining
"Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
It all depends to a single phone call or support request regarding a critical issue. You may even end up giving private/semi private info.
Yes, the call centers in India. Wonder why companies panic when Satyam had issues?
Does that mean they might potentially have access to my gmail? What about people who send mail to me? Does that mean that they automatically get the right to look in my inbox? What if they're spammers and they use that as cover?
I don't comprehend India's reasoning behind this. It's a serious case of "Hey, you're doing it wrong..." What is the point of protecting (encrypting) or communications if we just hand over a key?
I don't honestly expect G or anyone else to bend to their demands... but then again, most companies 'have a price' if it can be met.
Finally, what do you think the likelihood of ANY company allowing India's DoT to actually place one of THEIR servers in the companies network?
Rediculoussss! (*waves his wand*)
My abilities are only limited by my imagination
I hate it when I can't judge if things like this is just power-play or if they actually honestly mean what they say.
Emotions! In your brain!
I like Chinese - they are more discreet and tend to gain access to systems by means of security vulnerabilities which they discover themselves. Meanwhile Indians have adopted the western approach - if you are not sure you can solve a technical problem, negotiate with the customer.
The Bush administration violated a few constitutional laws in its effort to close the barn door after the terrorists had burned the barn down. They wanted to impress upon us how earnestly they believed in thwarting the terrorists, so they decided that we needed to give up our rights so that they could score political points.
But, as everybody knows, the Bush administration had more than enough information to do the job long before the terrorists ever hit us. What was needed isn't more information, what was needed was better use of the existing information. (Notice that I'm not using the word intelligence. Clearly, Bush needed more intelligence, but that would not be forthcoming.) But we can expect our leaders to make lazy, self-serving choices rather than to take on the hard jobs they seemed to want so badly.
India is an authoritarian state, perfectly comfortable with internal corruption and cronyism. This choice, to compel telecommunications businesses to open up their data for 'security and intelligence' agencies, will surely be abused for political reasons and its impact on security will be marginal.
Best regards.
look here ever one is complaining, but what do you think of US government. Don't u think they have access to ur email and all those stuffs. Recent update was about ICQ chat going to russian company and US law enforcement agencies. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/06/26/2149233/US-Fears-Loss-of-ICQ-Honeypot. Take it ever one has to comply with individual nations monitoring laws....
The terrorists used mobile phones and tools like Google Earth to plan, coordinate and execute the operations, India and Israel have been howling about those tools ever since.
...and they are idiots for asking for access to like this. Anyone who is using services for sensitive information will just pre-encrypt, and they will be back to square 1.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Logically it will be impossible to tell if an account belongs to a citizen or a visitor (unless they add some authenticated sign-up procedure for users). So if I use my email account in India as a visitor, does that make me open to have all my emails read? I have done business in India and lost several deals due to refusing to pay the "special fee" asked by the buyer to make the deal happen. So with my present level of trust in how things are done in India, I can't even begin to imagine how the knowledge gleaned by "intelligence services" from foreign visitors will find its way into the Indian economy. If the providers cave in to this, then that would be an EPIC FAIL and I would have to stop using most of those services and/or find secure alternatives. So, this is not a matter of the service providers missing out on business just in India. If they cave in, India might still have the services available, but many of the lucrative business users in the rest of the world may well walk.
Meus subcriptio est nocens Latin quoniam bardus populus reputo is sanus callidus
they have no right whatsoever to read email traffic. Terrorists have officially won as government is leveraging attacks to increase their power over all. Wake up people, government is the problem. Terrorists, even when very successful, effect a tiny percentage of a population. Yet, the government grows more powerful over all in order to supposedly protect the population. This is about control, not protection. Such a shame that so may are willing to throw away their rights in the face of terror. The terrorists have won. Now they are fighting over who will control the levers of power. The citizens have already lost all liberty.
Awesome way for a government to send it's country back to the stone ages.
-Fiend-
RIM, Skype, and Google's communications already "comply with formats that can be read by security and intelligence agencies" if the government wants to wiretap the suspects upstream of their devices.
Can it be read? Print it out or keep it on the screen, your choice.
Is it human-readable? Sure!
Does it mean anything on first glance? That's questionable.
I am merely playing devil's advocate.
We have outsourced some of our repetitive grunt work to a company in India. Once we got the glitches and language barrier out of the way, they have proven they can do the job so long as they are told EXACTLY what to do. Otherwise they will halt the moment they go off-script and not continue until we have made a decision. Sometimes I think they "get confused" just to get a break on some of the shittier work, but there's no way to prove this. It doesn't make them extra money to do this, since they have more than one job in the pipeline at any given time.
The problem is that we have to use e-mail to communicate with them. It's hosted on our own server, and they use a VPN to access it. Will WE have to comply with these conditions as well? If so, they can kiss the contract goodbye because we are bound by privacy laws to keep this information out of the hands of third parties -- including foreign government agencies.
For example, one of the things they will do is check to make sure an insurance policy has the same drivers and vehicles on it that we submitted to the carrier. In order to do this, they must cross-reference the driver list containing the name, date of birth, driver license number, and state of residence. The middle two of these four are considered protected information under both state and federal statutes.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
FTFA...
The BlackBerry security architecture for enterprise customers is specially designed to exclude the capability for RIM or any third party to read encrypted information under any circumstances, the company said in 2008 in a note to customers. The security architecture is based on a symmetric key system whereby the customer creates his own key, and only the customer possesses a copy of his encryption key, RIM said.
"You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
The proper response from Google should be a simple "Your terms are acceptable.". Followed by all IP addresses assigned in India getting only a "403 Forbidden" page when accessing any Google service, and all search results leading to sites located in India or operated by Indian entities being removed from the listings. For extra Bastard points, all e-mail originating from Indian addresses gets rejected and all phone calls from India get a no-service tone.
Very easy problem to solve, just have countries who own those two companies, ban all imports from India, till they stop acting like assholes. I'm sure when they see their export earnings down the commode, they will think different.
It's time to remind the world that the Internet is the result of US DoD research.
It is a privilege to connect to it, not a right.
India, China, and other countries with false sense of entitlements -- take note -- the plug can be pulled.
E
Stupid call centers..... what the hell are those people saying.
people tossed oranges at a protest so we should destroy all the orange fields
Could it mean Microsoft is already complying?
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
And there's 0% chance that these backdoors will be used for industrial espionage, because nobody in India is corrupt enough to turn classified business information over to someone's competitor in exchange for a bribe, righit?
The Government shouldn't have the right to come in to my house and rummage through my letters.
Of course, we have to remember that rights are whatever the people with the guns say they are.
If Google is disclosing our Gmail to various governments, they better send each of us a plain and clear letter (a gmail email) telling us exactly what their policy in this regard is.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
The bank robbers can escape through the why a duck.
Amazing what a little fear can do, isn't it?
Pretty soon, if this cowardly trend continues, most democratic governments in the world will be repressive police states. Not because of military coups, but as a result of the citizens voting those repressive regimes into power out of fear of terrorism. This is exactly how Hitler gained dictatorial control in a democratic Germany. Fear the Jews. Fear the Communists. Look, “they” burned down the Reichstag! And, the terrorists (in that case, the Nazis) won. In the case of America in 2010, we now have the Department of Homeland Insecurity and the Patriot Act. An institution and a law we would never have tolerated without a 9/11-type tragedy and the fear-mongering, perpetrated by politicians and their corporate backers who find real democracy “uncomfortable” or “inefficient,” that followed.
The best way to preempt a terrorist attack is through constant, consistant intelligence work. Most of it “human intelligence.” Once suspects have been identified using solid police work, the authorities will not need indiscriminate access to private conversations.
What we need to do is step back, take a deep breath and get some perspective people. For example, according to WikiAnswers “There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.”
Now, consider how many American citizens have been killed in terrorism-related incidents at home and abroad since 9/11. According to Information Please just 77. That's right, seventy-seven (that figure includes military personnel killed in terrorist attacks but not those killed fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan).
Now, look back at those auto accident figures. One-hindered fifteen (115) Americans die every day just because they were driving, or riding in, an automobile. It takes less than one day for American deaths in auto accidents to exceed the total number of American deaths from terrorism over the last eight years (excluding 9/11). Of course, each of those deaths (by auto accident or terrorism) is a human tragedy. I do not mean to devalue them in any way. But, we must get and maintain perspective, not only in the US but (obviously) in other democratic countries as well.
Here in America, we won't get our civil liberties out of the clutches of the fear-mongering politicians and corporations who benefit from a “perpetual state of war or the threat of war” any time soon. Take heed, citizens of India.
One "Aw, Shit!" is worth 100 "Ata boys!"
Hello? Yes, this is technical support for gmail applications. Am I having talk with government of India?
Yes. I understand that you are having difficulty with reading emails of your populations.
Have you been plugging your monitor into the plug on the back of the computer?
Excellent. I am so very sorry you are still having the problems. We are checking now your network cables......
Etc....
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
Isn't it interesting that the US DoD invented the internet and essentially gave it, free, to the world?
The whole thing that makes Blackberry's so popular in the US is their security features. Not just with the public either, the US Government loves them some Blackberrys. They are a major customer and threatened to intercede in the patent case (patents are an explicit right of the federal government, and the law allows them to take them away for various reasons). There are several reasons they like them so much, but the security is a big one. If you look at the BB lineup you find they nearly all are FIPS 140 complaint. Now most people wouldn't give a shit. You can have superb crypto without that extensive verification process. Well, the feds care, it is their standard after all.
So I can't imagine RIM is at all interested in weakening their security as it is a major selling point to their major customer.
Skype, RIM and Google are contemplating a counter-suit against India's Department of Telecommunications asking it to provide tech support in an understandable format. HP has yet to weigh in on the matter citing a possible conflict of interest. Carly Fiorina said the Delta water crisis is a "huge piece of my platform," - as she passed out cake.
Maybe I am not getting the point here... A BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server) basically hosts email out of a mail store like Exchange or Domino. Conceptually, all BES does is provide end to end security from the corporate mail server of choice to the endpoint device. Why is it RIM's responsibility to make this more open for public use? Why isn't M$ being asked to do the same thing with their version of BES (Mobile support addin for Exchange)? This seems very odd and the article seems to be written from a 30,000 foot view. Why is India going after the infrastructure and not the source of the emails (corporations or mail providers).
...incompetent idiots.
lots of its actions can only be interpreted by others to be flailings of a bumbling fool. recently they made it mandatory to give out your fingerprints to the census officers. well what good is a fingerprint if you lie about your name and everything else? and why exactly do they want fingerprints? just, you know, its like the rage nowadays!!1.
almost all pakistani terrorist attacks carried out in india were the result of a decayed law and order system. corruption at the border, illegal gun trade, corruption at the local police station level, etc. hell they were able to just fix a red flashing light on any random car and managed to get into the fucking parliament itself.
what google and rim should do is refuse to provide any help. and propose to close down their services in the country. maybe then the idiots will realize the stupidity.
its times like these when i experience a burning desire to run away from this rotten country to us/uk/australia.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
As long as as a Web based concern doesn't have a bricks 'n mortar presence in the relevant country/state & does no banking/investment in the relevant country/state, it has nothing to fear from the country's legislature/courts/regulatory regime except a jurisdiction based web-filter, a la China, Iran, Australia, & that's a problem for the relevant country/state's own citizens/residents to deal with or work around.
Why web based concerns worry about the laws of countries they're not operating from is beyond me..
Just like any other country, India has some brilliant people, some not so brilliant and a whole lot anywhere in the middle.
In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_world, Govt officials address you as Sir.
In India, you've to address Govt officials as Sir.
I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
What keeps countries like India poor is the corrupt politicians. India can afford to build a nuclear arsenal but they can't manage to provide clean water to all of their people? That's India's fault and no-one elses'.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
The terrorists haven't won anything, you fool. Stop repeating that empty-headed banality. "They" never wanted any such thing as you imagine - by their own words, they just want the Western countries to get their militaries, mercenaries, and merchant companies (petro-chemicals) OUT of their countries. They would be quiet happy if the Western countries maintained citizen freedoms etc etc.
It's OUR OWN governments that have been purchased by the corporations for the benefit of the rich. And what do we plebians do? We roll over to have our bellies scratched and submit to the fear, eagerly accepting their dictates.
We allow the rich to hide behind the corporate veil to rape and despoil our planet, but we lazily refuse to take responsibility for our own lives and livelihoods - it's easier to accept the fear than stand up and fight the class war with our blood, sweat and tears. We deserve it all, for being anonymous coach potatoes (so saith the A.C.)
This is easily solved when, facing the loss of the contract, your subcontractor just lets agents from the Indian intelligence service use the VPN from their end.
paintball
therefore we should make ducks mandatory !
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I think we are facing a serious problem and the Indian government's concerns are well justified.
No argument the Skype, Gmail, Microsoft's products, etc. are very good software. Excellent software. A lot of money and talent was invested in it. I would say even too much. No other software can compete with it at all.
But we do not know what is inside of this compiled or cloud soft. We know that at least some of this global software was created with the financial and organizational input of one government, actively representing interests of a limited group of people.
This software is getting overwhelming global recognition and usage. It may well be that agents of this one and only government can do at will a search not only in the communication messages, but at the local hard disks globally, just as we do search at the websites.
Encryption algorithms are also developed by this body and may have invisible mathematical and code back doors too.
Nothing bad is happening at the moment, as this government is good and benevolent. But what if this changes?
Would not it be too risky to put all eggs in a proverbial basket? Not to have a fail-safe protection at all?
Recent cases show that no other government cannot even remotely compete with this global information prowess of this one country (I repeat very good country, at the moment, no argument about this). Messages are being intercepted and read even before they are sent, even mathematically unbreakable encryption is broken in no time.
Recent famous cases of information access hands-down superiority stunned and reeled some other governments. I guess it may cause new interest in creating their own operating systems, office and communication software, encryption algorithms, networks, and even hardware.
Not to step on the same rake again it all should be open source and communicate between countries and regions also via open source protocols.
(Mouse trouble on previous post, trying again.)
they have no right whatsoever to read email traffic. Terrorists have officially won as corporations are leveraging attacks to increase their power over all. Wake up people, corporations are the problem. Terrorists, even when very successful, effect a tiny percentage of a population. Yet, the corporations grow more powerful over all in order to supposedly protect the population. This is about control, not protection. Such a shame that so may are willing to throw away their rights in the face of terror. The terrorists have won. Now they are fighting over who will control the levers of power. The citizens have already lost all liberty.
Interestingly, this edition of the warning also makes sense. Corporate media is able to get people so wound up about 'Eebil Gubmit' that they'll let nearly any illegal, unethical or even unconstitutional incident slide as long as it was perpetrated by a corporation.
Governments are not the only major threat to life, liberty, family or democracy. Corporations, by the behavior of their managers and employees, rank way up there, too.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Seems this government wants to forget the fact that Internet security is a necessity. I don't want government agencies reading my e-mails. I want all my e-mails encrypted and no-one can ever see their contents. If the governments want to catch terrorists, they should try using good old investigative techniques. If they want to see my e-mails they must get a court order, in the same way as if they want to search my house.
India to RIM... Thank you come again!
If they want lag behind technologically, that's their prerrogative.
We've also gotten notice that we have to show up at our nearest SIM retailer with proof that we are who we say we are and still have the SIM chip we bought. Oh, and bring a passport photo, please. This isn't the first time the Indian gov't has gone after RIM. Last year's attempt to strong-arm Blackberry was met with a giant shrug by RIM and near-mutiny by the financial sector, who depend mightily on the crackberry.
Don't forget to copy the screenwriters for NBC Universal's new primetime comedy "OUTSOURCED" coming this Fall 2010.
This could make a great season bridge premise:
Having spent the first season training his new call center in India, can Todd (Ben Rappaport) switch to carrier pigeons for messages when their VPN collapses just as his call center needs to provide critical support for Mid America Novelties customers who have bought "Talking Billy Bass" which speak Farsi?
Have smartfone - will travel!
But the U.S. Congress is asking for the same thing.
wonder if the government can read the postal letters sent by Indian Post, FedEx, UPS et al
Although I do not like it, I can understand the reasons and consider it a necessary evil. Not sure what prompted the government to take this step. India banned some Chinese telecom equipment makers a few weeks back and now this.
Isn't US giving special powers to the President to get the kill switch for the internet. or at least moving in that direction.
btw, US and UK already monitor the email traffic. So, this is not something new.
Every effort to empower common man will be resisted because legislative, judiciary, administration & corporations will not allow their clout to be diluted and they want you to be subservient forever.
I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga