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Hardware Hackers Reveal Apple's Charger Secrets

ptorrone writes "In this 7-minute video we explore the mysteries of Apple device charging. Usually, device makers need to sign a confidentially agreement with Apple if they want to say their charger 'works with iPhone / iPod,' and they're not allowed to talk about how the insides work. If you don't put these secret resistors on the data lines too, you get the dreaded Charging is not supported with this accessory. We demonstrate how anyone can make their own chargers that work with iPhone 4, 3Gs, etc."

371 comments

  1. Resistance is Futile by Maarx · · Score: 5, Funny

    Resistance is Futile

    1. Re:Resistance is Futile by KarrdeSW · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ohm, I see what you did there.

    2. Re:Resistance is Futile by bonch · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I'm confused, this article summary isn't biased or uninformed like the last one (summary begins with "Despite all the hype about Apple's latest phone" even though the figures in the article don't include sales of the latest iPhone).

      Where is the required quota of Apple hate so I can know how to respond to this?

    3. Re:Resistance is Futile by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      even though the figures in the article don't include sales of the latest iPhone

      They didn't include sales of the latest Android phones, either.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Resistance is Futile by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1, Insightful

      posted by a bunch of guys who lack the capacity to win her.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    5. Re:Resistance is Futile by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Boring film... losing... consciousness." ----- (That's a tick reference for our younger viewers.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Resistance is Futile by poetmatt · · Score: 2, Funny

      shocking.

    7. Re:Resistance is Futile by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can someone please explain watt the hell they're talking about?

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    8. Re:Resistance is Futile by AnonymousClown · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ohm, I see what you did there.

      These comments! There should be a Law.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    9. Re:Resistance is Futile by northernfrights · · Score: 1

      Watt? I don't get it...

    10. Re:Resistance is Futile by TheJokeExplainer · · Score: 5, Funny

      I didn't quite get it. Can you explain it Fermi?

      --
      visit my pal the xkcd explainer!
    11. Re:Resistance is Futile by JavaBear · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you sure you have the capacity to induce jokes like that here?

    12. Re:Resistance is Futile by operagost · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's VIRtually impossible to get these jokes unless you read the article.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    13. Re:Resistance is Futile by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think I just thought of a great new website:

      "Girls of Electronica" Dot. Com. Watch the ladies as they solder and desolder iPhones and other high-tech gadgets, while also being topless. See voltmeters probing things they were never meant to probe! Or vibrating air guns used in creative new fashion! Only $5 a month.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    14. Re:Resistance is Futile by camperslo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Does this mean it's irresistible?

    15. Re:Resistance is Futile by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 4, Funny

      The current direction of this discussion has the potential to give me a pun-migraine.

      electron! Whew.

    16. Re:Resistance is Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple bastards. Trying to sell more plastic. The opposite of Green.

    17. Re:Resistance is Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you have caffeine withdrawl. You may want to try an Amp energy drink.

    18. Re:Resistance is Futile by nacturation · · Score: 5, Funny

      Can someone please explain watt the hell they're talking about?

      I don't think you'd have the capacity to understand.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    19. Re:Resistance is Futile by interkin3tic · · Score: 1, Funny

      At least it was a current story.

    20. Re:Resistance is Futile by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wye would you do that when I had just rectified the situation?? On a side note, I am trying to phase caffeine out of my daily routine.

    21. Re:Resistance is Futile by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, Resistance is futile, but the voltage, on the other hand, has potential.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    22. Re:Resistance is Futile by Maarx · · Score: 1

      The current direction of this discussion has the potential to induce a pun-migraine. electron! Whew.

      FTFY

    23. Re:Resistance is Futile by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Invoking Ohm's law automatically ends the discussion...

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    24. Re:Resistance is Futile by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      Great you just used rule 34 to bring that site into existence.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    25. Re:Resistance is Futile by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think we need to transform this conversation into something else.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    26. Re:Resistance is Futile by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Do you think Apple will now Charge her with a DMCA violation of some sort? After all, the resistors they used didn't have any markers on them, doesn't that qualify as some sort of a DRM scheme?

      To the lady that did the work: good job, resist any current attempts of being charged with any DMCA related offenses.

    27. Re:Resistance is Futile by smcn · · Score: 1

      I think you missed a certain Seinfeld episode.

    28. Re:Resistance is Futile by Paspanique · · Score: 1

      Funny how not so long ago this applied to someone else! Can't wait to see how much further they will actually go ...or not!

      --
      I don't have an intelligent phone, so I need to be.
    29. Re:Resistance is Futile by easterberry · · Score: 4, Funny

      wire you so insistent of ending our fun? Do you find puns re-volt-ing or something?

    30. Re:Resistance is Futile by shadowrat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ohm my god! these puns are ridiculous!

    31. Re:Resistance is Futile by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      Well too many puns are known to have high inductance for vomiting...

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    32. Re:Resistance is Futile by blincoln · · Score: 1

      After all, the resistors they used didn't have any markers on them, doesn't that qualify as some sort of a DRM scheme?

      Is it a DMCA violation if the "DRM" is actually "analogue rights management" and the "circumvention technology" has no digital components?

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    33. Re:Resistance is Futile by easterberry · · Score: 4, Funny

      Those claims are groundless! I may have to charge you with libel.

    34. Re:Resistance is Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SPOOOON!!!

    35. Re:Resistance is Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I don't think you have the capacitor to understand, either.

    36. Re:Resistance is Futile by Kozz · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think I just thought of a great new website:

      "Girls of Electronica" Dot. Com. Watch the ladies as they solder and desolder iPhones and other high-tech gadgets, while also being topless. See voltmeters probing things they were never meant to probe! Or vibrating air guns used in creative new fashion! Only $5 a month.

      Try explaining to the wife, "Honey, I just read it for the circuit diagrams."

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    37. Re:Resistance is Futile by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      What? I can't hear you from all the noise.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    38. Re:Resistance is Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sir, your views resonate with me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. How would you suggest we impede any further discussion of this matter?

    39. Re:Resistance is Futile by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Don't phase me bro'!

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    40. Re:Resistance is Futile by Nyder · · Score: 1

      "Boring film... losing... consciousness." ----- (That's a tick reference for our younger viewers.)

      It lost the funny when you included an explanation.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    41. Re:Resistance is Futile by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Girls of Electronica" Dot. Com. is a bit awkward.

      How about Slashfap?

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    42. Re:Resistance is Futile by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      I was thinking about posting something pun-less so I could have you guys going nuts rereading the post over and over to find the pun, but then I decided against it. Or did I?

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    43. Re:Resistance is Futile by Rolman · · Score: 1

      Can someone please explain watt the hell they're talking about?

      I don't think you'd have the capacity to understand.

      But he could learn by induction.

      --
      - Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
    44. Re:Resistance is Futile by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Watt? I didn't see anything?

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    45. Re:Resistance is Futile by plover · · Score: 1

      Invoking Ohm's law automatically ends the discussion...

      Is that like Wheatstoning a tech thread?

      --
      John
    46. Re:Resistance is Futile by skotay · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Boring film... losing... consciousness." ----- (That's a tick reference for our younger viewers.)

      It lost the funny when you included an explanation.

      But what was not included was if the the reference was directed to our younger viewers explaining the quote as being from The Tick who might be too young to have yet learned about our large blue hero with funny antenna on the top of his head or whether it was to let everyone know that the poster was thinking of the children... You insensitive clod.

    47. Re:Resistance is Futile by srodden · · Score: 1

      uh... I think slashfap might encourage and even more niche market...

      --
      Why can't we let people believe whatever they like? It's not like a little religion has ever hurt anyone.
    48. Re:Resistance is Futile by srodden · · Score: 1

      I hope someone rectifies this situation soon.

      --
      Why can't we let people believe whatever they like? It's not like a little religion has ever hurt anyone.
    49. Re:Resistance is Futile by turing_m · · Score: 1

      Transform it? You've just gone and made it more hysterical, so let's not get all wound up. Oh the irony! And now I've upped the frequency, it just seems to get easier and easier!

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    50. Re:Resistance is Futile by ajlitt · · Score: 1

      It takes a total Kirchoff to not try to Gauss Wien they don't node something.

    51. Re:Resistance is Futile by XSpud · · Score: 2, Funny

      These comments! There should be a Law.

      Yes, a law administered by circuit judges.

    52. Re:Resistance is Futile by WillDraven · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would say it's more Analogue Ripoff Management, as the only "right" involved here is the right to charge you an extra ten bucks for a two dollar part.

      Oh, and it also has absolutely nothing to do with copyright. The only creative expression in this series of resistors is the creative use of bullshit scam-artistry. Maybe it falls under patents? "Method And Apparatus For Fucking Customers Via Voltage Transformations And Douchebaggery"?

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    53. Re:Resistance is Futile by JohnBailey · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, a law administered by circuit judges.

      Ohm's law?

      --
      It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
    54. Re:Resistance is Futile by sigmoid_balance · · Score: 1

      You're wrong :P Resistance is Fusile.

    55. Re:Resistance is Futile by Kireas · · Score: 1

      Damn it! I'm trapped in a neverending loop! Where's the pun? Is there a pun? There must be! Argh!

      Sir, I'd take my hat off to you if I could stop re-reading your post, and if I had a hat.

      --
      To much anime is bad for the brain...desu.

      Sorry. Couldn't help it.
    56. Re:Resistance is Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See soldering beauties with low resistance. Tap that wire and let the current flow. As large reverse bias is applied to their rearmost diode, reverse breakdown occurs and high oscillations abound. Be also sure to visit our trans section for exciting threeways.

    57. Re:Resistance is Futile by mpdolan37 · · Score: 1

      Watts the problem... just Amp it up!!!

      --
      Facts are useless, they can be used to prove anything.
    58. Re:Resistance is Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where is the required quota of Apple hate so I can know how to respond to this?
       
      Typed while gulping back bitter fanboi tears, no doubt.
       
      Oh I don't know... let's come up with something.
       
      Okay. Just as well it wasn't a Chinese engineer who had inadvertently revealed the resistance on the data pins.
      Cupertino are so unforgiving that he'd probably be on the window ledge already.
       
      Yeah, that will do.
       

    59. Re:Resistance is Futile by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Anyone current-ly afflicted with this nonsense needs to step back and switch synapses.

  2. Good Lord! by RenHoek · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is it wrong for me to get a bit hot under the collar, seeing a geek girl with such an impressive electronics workdesk?

    1. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is wrong.

    2. Re:Good Lord! by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      No, I always feel particularly attracted to girls that have tech skills, too.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    3. Re:Good Lord! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      I could think of much worse things to get aroused by. Especially with electronics.

    4. Re:Good Lord! by Bearhouse · · Score: 2, Informative

      Whatever turns you on, dude. She's certainly well-geeky, but 'hot' she's not ;-)

    5. Re:Good Lord! by bkeahl · · Score: 1

      But can she cook?

    6. Re:Good Lord! by couchslug · · Score: 4, Funny

      "She's certainly well-geeky, but 'hot' she's not ;-)"

      Nonsense! She has all the characteristics of hotness:

      Airway.
      Breathing.
      Circulation.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    7. Re:Good Lord! by Spazntwich · · Score: 3, Funny

      Want to cry into your underwear with nerdlust?

      Read an article from http://badphysics.wordpress.com/, spend a few futile minutes googling for more pictures and trying to internally reconcile her ravishing looks with such effortless eloquence and boundless intelligence, and then fall even deeper into self-loathing despair with the realization that even your hypothetical best version of yourself wouldn't be good enough for her.

      Or, you know, don't. But you get my point. Hopefully, because I don't.

    8. Re:Good Lord! by almondo · · Score: 1

      Geek girls rule! (and Steve is probably calling the cops right now.)

    9. Re:Good Lord! by Bearhouse · · Score: 2, Funny

      lol...reminds me of that old joke:

      Guy @ bar #1: "I'm into flagellation, necrophilia & bestiality"

      Guy @ bar #2: "Sounds like you're flogging a dead horse..."

    10. Re:Good Lord! by nb+caffeine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not only does she have a well stocked desk, she has her own company and sells some geeky stuff to us tinkerers: http://adafruit.com/ Her monochron pong playing clock was featured on /. a while back.

      --

      "Something's wrong with you...and I hope we never do meet again." - Deftones When Girls Telephone Boys
    11. Re:Good Lord! by localman57 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yep. But does she run Linux?

    12. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Want to cry into your underwear with nerdlust?

      Hey, if I could cry into her underwear, I could get over the fact that she's too hot for me and console myself in other ways.

      Maybe I could just hump her leg for a minute or two -- that's all I'd need. :-P

      (*whew* Thank god for proofread before submit, almost forgot to check "anonymous" on this one. ;-)

    13. Re:Good Lord! by Snarkalicious · · Score: 1

      Eh. There's nothing wrong with my chances an over-sized hoodie and a bad hair day couldn't fix.

    14. Re:Good Lord! by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

      Maybe it was the way she moved her hands up and down the soldering iron and then flicked the tip. Just hope she does not go all Lorena Bobbitt with that thing.

    15. Re:Good Lord! by angelwolf71885 · · Score: 0

      you forgot 2 warm and squishy ;)

    16. Re:Good Lord! by Tsunayoshi · · Score: 1

      Damn, I want her. Too bad she probably doesn't want me :(

      --
      "Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"
    17. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But does she run Linux?

      Yes

    18. Re:Good Lord! by TrisexualPuppy · · Score: 1

      But does she run Linux?

      Yes

      Interesting, but...

      ...wait...

      ...hmmmph

    19. Re:Good Lord! by Orestesx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, that is busted. Do not want.

    20. Re:Good Lord! by JavaBear · · Score: 1

      Nope. I got hot under the collar seeing that desk too.

    21. Re:Good Lord! by Soldats · · Score: 1

      If it is wrong, I don't wanna be right

    22. Re:Good Lord! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Don't despair. A girl like that has no use for pretty boy jock types - at least not for anything other than one night stands where she doesn't have to put up with their inane conversation. But she will be at the center of a "circle" of guys all hanging on her every word at pretty much any geek event she might attend which can be annoying as hell.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    23. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it wrong for me to get a bit hot under the collar, seeing a geek girl with such an impressive electronics workdesk?

      not at all old chap

      geekgasms all round

    24. Re:Good Lord! by Spazntwich · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm still trying to figure out if you're talking about catching her on a day with low self-esteem... or rape.

    25. Re:Good Lord! by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      There is something off about that girl. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think she may be a mandroid.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    26. Re:Good Lord! by melikamp · · Score: 1

      and then fall even deeper into self-loathing despair with the realization that even your hypothetical best version of yourself wouldn't be good enough for her.

      Why? Does she prefer girls?

    27. Re:Good Lord! by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Funny

      Airway.
      Breathing.
      Circulation.
      Dick? (checks) Nope. Houston we're ready for liftoff.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    28. Re:Good Lord! by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >>>but 'hot' she's not

      Come here sonny. I want to give a brief talk. I recently went to my 15th reunion, and you know those "hot" girls in my class? Well they ain't hot no more! In fact they were downright repulsive (sorry, but it was true). So might as well go for the brainy, geeky girl because that will last. The beauty won't.

      If you want "hotness" that will last, go Playboy.
      The 1995 centerfold will always be hot,
      even if the model no longer is.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    29. Re:Good Lord! by AnAdventurer · · Score: 1

      If not "hot" at least warm to the touch (maybe not your touch, but you'll never know unless you ask +) )

      --
      6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
    30. Re:Good Lord! by the_womble · · Score: 1

      Its not "wrong" as in somehow morally objectionable.

      However, feeling the need to discuss it on Slashdot, making comments that amount to "OMG, its a GIRL!", while still not immoral, are pathetic.

      You must live in either a basement, or Saudi Arabia, and never see any real girls. Whichever it is, just get out more.

    31. Re:Good Lord! by cgranade · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Grow up. The author of that blog is a real, honest person. I don't think she likely appreciates that kind of treatment. Has it ever occurred to you that Sarah may actually find your comment? That there is a person behind that picture? That Sarah may not, in fact, be writing to entertain your "nerdlust," but because she has an interest in, say, science?

      --

      #define DRM chmod 000

    32. Re:Good Lord! by commodore64_love · · Score: 0, Troll
      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:Good Lord! by couchslug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "So might as well go for the brainy, geeky girl because that will last. The beauty won't."

      ++ for extreme truthiness!

       

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    34. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you cant get anything that pretty or prettier..

      Honestly; 19+ year old playboy bunnies dont like 450 pound fat guys covered in cheetos and living in their mom's basement..

      And stop screaming for her to make you more pizza rolls.. good god we can here you 3 blocks down!

      p.s. only a loser goes for looks. average and even kinda homley girls will do really naughty shit in bed. I'd rather bank a average looking chick nightly than have to beg to touch a barbie doll that hates sex.

    35. Re:Good Lord! by Snarkalicious · · Score: 1

      Dude. It's not her level of self-esteem that determines whether or not my punk ass can make an initial approach.

      Next time I'll make sure to include a footnote with the sub-text so nobody mistakes me for Mike Tyson, or whatever.

    36. Re:Good Lord! by IAmGarethAdams · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, but will she blend?

    37. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but Morgan Fairchild would disagree (though perhaps she's the exception that proves the rule?) Also, dementia and similar ailments would also disagree.

    38. Re:Good Lord! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Damn, now I have to RTFA!

    39. Re:Good Lord! by Nesman64 · · Score: 1

      Not bat, but she's no Bennett Halverson. :P

      --
      coffee | nose > keyboard
    40. Re:Good Lord! by Lev13than · · Score: 4, Funny

      Airway.
      Breathing.
      Circulation.
      Dick? (checks) Nope. Houston we're ready for liftoff.
      Erection? (checks self) Nope. Houston, we have a problem.

      --
      When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
    41. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Has it ever occurred to you that Sarah may actually find your comment? That there is a person behind that picture? That Sarah may not, in fact, be writing to entertain your "nerdlust," but because she has an interest in, say, science?

      Nobody is denying that she's a real, honest to goodness girl-type person with a strong interest in science and a keen intellect.

      I'm sure she isn't interested in our combined "nerdlust" -- any more than she's interested in all of the non-nerds that ogle her and want to hump her leg. She can't be that good looking and still be surprised men lose their train of thought when she enters a room.

      That doesn't change the fact that tonight she'll be a fantasy for a significant amount of geeks.

      Me, I'd motorboat her and anything else she's let me do to her. We're talking hot grits kinda stuff here!! :-P

    42. Re:Good Lord! by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      She's not, but in typical geek girl fashion, she also is wearing her hair just pulled back and with virtually no makeup. A lot of "hot" girls look very similar before they get done up.

      Translated: I'd hit it after a few drinks. If she got some lipstick and a trip to the salon though and it would only take a Mountain Dew.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    43. Re:Good Lord! by Spazntwich · · Score: 1

      Dude, wait, what?

      What kind of treatment? Compliments on her education, writing, and appearance?

      Where did I so much as imply she writes to entertain anyone's nerdlust? Her genuine interest in science is exactly what inspires nerdlust instead of, say, the boring vanilla lust engendered by an attractive girl without an interest in science.

      I think you got some wires crossed somewhere.

    44. Re:Good Lord! by DrgnDancer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dude, has it occurred to you that given she has a science blog with a very nice picture of herself setup obviously next to it kinda saying "Look at me, I'm a pretty little geek girl", she probably likes the attention? I'm not trying to knock her or anything, it's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to like attention. I also greatly doubt that she wants to have wild monkey-sex with any great percentage of her readers, I'm not saying that either. She clearly likes to be paid attention to: both for her obvious intelligence and for her equally obvious good looks. Her website gives her to opportunity for both in a very safe and impersonal way, good on her. Don't expect people to ignore that she's pretty though.

      Personally I kinda liked Ada better. I'm more of a technologist than a scientist, and I like the alt-girl look. To each their own though.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    45. Re:Good Lord! by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      I'll see your out-of-our-league smart pretty physicist, and raise you an out-of-our-league smart pretty biologist/statistician. On the one hand, le sigh, but on the other hand, it's wonderful that such people exist.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    46. Re:Good Lord! by horza · · Score: 1

      Much as I like geek girls, I was pretty pissed off when she said at the end that the clip made it "easier to explain to boys what they do". I found it blatantly sexist and demand an immediate apology.

      Phillip.

    47. Re:Good Lord! by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 3, Funny

      You can upgrade to the latest model every few years. As long as you can afford it.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    48. Re:Good Lord! by Mex · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't want to marry the "hot" girl, I just wanna boink her. So in the short term I dont care if she has the IQ of a toaster, sir.

    49. Re:Good Lord! by tibman · · Score: 1
      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    50. Re:Good Lord! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      She's certainly well-geeky, but 'hot' she's not ;-)

      Saying that to a slashdotter is like saying "yeah, that cheerleader has a great body and a beautiful face, but hot she's not" to a drunken football player.

      We're like zombies -- brains turn us on. You need to turn in your nerd card, dude.

      I'm glad he made the comment, it got me to a VERY interesting article. The article itself was even better than the hot chick. THAT'S what I call hacking, not breaking into someone's window box.

    51. Re:Good Lord! by Belial6 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      The "OMG, its a GIRL!" comes from the fact that so many of us have met so few smart ones, or even truly intellectually curious ones in our lives. We know it isn't a genetic problem. We even meet or see (as in this case) just enough to let us know that they do exist. They may not be unicorns, but they are still pretty rare.

      Before you claim I am a sexist, understand that I have no doubt that the number of smart men would be much lower if all men had to do was walk into a bar and declare that they were horny to get women to throw goods, services and, dare I say it, cash, at them. For very good reasons, prostitution has been a mainstay of human culture. As long as you follow certain protocols, it is socially acceptable. It takes an unusual sort of person to decide that being smart is important when they know they can get through life by having sex instead.

      So, yes. She is hot. I don't live in a basement or Saudi Arabia, I see real girls all of the time, and not only would I love to have sex with her, but I would love to have sex with her while my wife takes pictures (that way it happened) and charges her iPod with the home made charger. You may call that pathetic, but from my perspective, what seems pathetic is to go to a nerd playground like slashdot, and expect people to behave in any way other than what the social norms of the culture dictate.

    52. Re:Good Lord! by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Sorry dude, out-of-our-league smart pretty physicist trumps out-of-our-league smart pretty biologist/statician.

    53. Re:Good Lord! by cgranade · · Score: 1

      I understand what you're getting at, but strongly sexualized language like "cry in your pants" only serves to alienate the very women that we ostensibly want to include in the community! Part of being a welcoming community means that we must sometimes put aside lust, nerdy or otherwise, and simply interact with an intelligent person on that basis.

      --

      #define DRM chmod 000

    54. Re:Good Lord! by cgranade · · Score: 1

      Actually, it has occurred to me, as I am a personal friend of Sarah's. You may not believe me, but either way, that's somewhat besides my point. I'm sure she wants attention for her outreach work and her scientific research, but to get attention only or primarily because of one's looks is to very unwelcoming. It serves to alienate people, to denigrate them-- it's why we have terms like "sexual objectification" in our language. On the contrary, though, I don't expect you to ignore that she's pretty. I simply don't want our community to be one in which crossing the line into blatant sexualization is acceptable.

      --

      #define DRM chmod 000

    55. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you see the pics in her About Me page?

      Physicist has nice tits but biologist has a better face.

    56. Re:Good Lord! by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      Dude. It's not her level of self-esteem that determines whether or not my punk ass can make an initial approach.

      So she can still look great and ... ah. Right. You were talking about rape.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    57. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dad, be honest with yourself. What are your nice memories, the ones you still think about - the cute girls, or the ugly ones with the computer magazines?

      I'm 22. I'm spending the next 10-15 years going out with the hottest women I can, and I guarantee you it'll make my entire life more fulfilling than any single moment in yours. Enjoy your fat wife.

    58. Re:Good Lord! by underskies · · Score: 1

      Very false. Also, did you *read* "biologists" about page? Because it said she was a raw food eating english major and aspiring nutrionalist. That's not the regular people definition of scientist, even if she has nice eyes.

    59. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure that is/was actually a man.

    60. Re:Good Lord! by cgenman · · Score: 1

      She reverse-engineered several pieces of Apple hardware using a solid electronics workstation, then vlogged about it using equations and whiteboards. What do you want, a cherry on her head?

      While I happen to think she is pretty, her physical attractiveness is irrelevant to officially being hot. For the required car analogy, that's like complaining about the Golf GTI W-12 concept car not having a working radio.

    61. Re:Good Lord! by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      but to get attention only or primarily because of one's looks is to very unwelcoming. It serves to alienate people, to denigrate them-- it's why we have terms like "sexual objectification" in our language

      -You

      Read an article from http://badphysics.wordpress.com/ [wordpress.com], spend a few futile minutes googling for more pictures and trying to internally reconcile her ravishing looks with such effortless eloquence and boundless intelligence

      -OP

      Seems to me he's more impressed with her wit, intelligence, and writing ability, but also quite pleased by her beauty. I think you may be reading more into this than is there. A certain level of objectification is unavoidable when you don't know someone other than to see a picture and read their work, but in this case I don't think the OP has gone over the top.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    62. Re:Good Lord! by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      except dumb womens usually aren't any good in bed.
      Smart women are far better. However crazy women are the best, but get the HELL out when you are done.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    63. Re:Good Lord! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Your comment reminds me of last week's "Plain Jane" on CW.

      That girl was geekish too, but after she got the cleavage-revealing dress, lipstick, and dark hair color she looked stunning. It was quite a transition.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    64. Re:Good Lord! by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      What percentage of the girls you hit on are actually drawn to your use of the word 'boink' as a euphemism for sex?

    65. Re:Good Lord! by Spazntwich · · Score: 1

      And part of posting on the internet is understanding bad taste is all over it.

      I'll be the first to admit I've got an utterly tasteless sense of humor, but some part of me doubts my original post is the worst message she's had directed at her on the internet. I still think the post boils down to obviously playful and self-deprecating. Obviously not going to fly in the office, but enough to warrant your ruffled feathers and a grumpy demand to grow up?

      I'm totally gonna email her a link to the thread and let her referee.

    66. Re:Good Lord! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      c4d2a497dabae865606a07e33f33c7c5

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    67. Re:Good Lord! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Erection? (checks self) Nope. Houston, we have a problem."

      If you cain't stir the puddin' ya can still lick the bowl!

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    68. Re:Good Lord! by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Did you read her paper? She might be a raw food eating english major but she's doing better statistical analysis than people who are paid to do so. You don't need a PhD in math to do science any more than you need a PhD in computer science to be a programmer.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    69. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Plus she single-handedly tore down a famous nutrition researcher, who initially accused her of not being a real person because he couldn't believe she had done the analysis herself.

      She's got brains for sure. Humor too. I like.

    70. Re:Good Lord! by Snarkalicious · · Score: 5, Funny

      Since when did jerking off in the bushes outside someone's bedroom window count as rape? Jesus, guys...it's not as if I'm sort of sicko.

    71. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beauty lasts. I get older, they stay the same age.

    72. Re:Good Lord! by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Back in the 90's I held said women in high esteem. One woman in particular was really good at resoldering a whole side of the PQFPs whenever I tagged one for rework.

    73. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know.... it's actually really hard for lots of girls too to have these totally perfect people like her out there. I have a friend who dates a physicist who would totally drop her if someone who looked like that came along and wanted him. Le sigh.

    74. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is one thing, and one thing only, that makes sex good.

      A good-looking woman.

      Trust me on this one. It's deeply biological. Pay attention the next few girls you make love to. You might be surprised (you definitely will be, if you truly think intelligence somehow brings better sex).

    75. Re:Good Lord! by Mojo66 · · Score: 1

      And she has a resistor attached to her lower lip.

    76. Re:Good Lord! by srodden · · Score: 1

      Now I'm generally not that keen on lip piercings but I reckon I'd swoon over a girl with a resistor piercing :) Hmmm... using a GaAs diode would even make it gemlike! Quickly! To the patent office o/

      --
      Why can't we let people believe whatever they like? It's not like a little religion has ever hurt anyone.
    77. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Read an article from http://badphysics.wordpress.com/ [wordpress.com], spend a few futile minutes googling for more pictures and trying to internally reconcile her ravishing looks with such effortless eloquence and boundless intelligence, and then fall even deeper into self-loathing despair with the realization that even your hypothetical best version of yourself wouldn't be good enough for her.

      Except I know I actually *could* bang her. And I'll go ahead and tell you, just because she's good looking and smart doesn't mean that she's fun in bed or that you'd want to be in a relationship with her. In fact I've found that overly smart women can often be the quirkiest and most annoying/emotionally immature in some ways. That doesn't mean that one shouldn't be interested in meeting her and finding out more about her, but don't drool over her "stats" (i.e. her self-created marketing brochure) and automatically assume that's the whole truth and there aren't flaws hidden, or not so hidden.

      In other words, don't put the pussy on a pedestal. Gain some self worth and a critical eye. A critical eye means you've got so many women hitting on you that you need to screen out the ones who are irritating or in some way unworthy of your attention. Why waste time with a psycho, or a straight up weirdo when there are other, just as hot and better acting women who want your attention? Who cares if she's the smartest woman on the planet if she's a bitch or has rude manners or is totally unwilling to experiment with new sexual positions?

    78. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guarantee Sarah is perfectly content enough and at ease with sexuality, being a grown woman of good looks and high intelligence, that comments by random nerds on a geek site don't at all even register on her radar as a source of concern. You don't need to "protect" her from the evil lusty nerds, he-man, she's gonna be OK.

    79. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 1

      I guarantee the truly hot, smart guys hitting on her can use all the lusty language they want and she'll dig it. It's only the trashy geeks with bad manners she finds repulsive and politely ignores, just as hot girls everywhere must learn to do.

    80. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, it has occurred to me, as I am a personal friend of Sarah's. You may not believe me, but either way, that's somewhat besides my point. I'm sure she wants attention for her outreach work and her scientific research, but to get attention only or primarily because of one's looks is to very unwelcoming. It serves to alienate people, to denigrate them-- it's why we have terms like "sexual objectification" in our language.

      OK, this just keeps getting better and better. As I read more of your posts about this girl, I begin to see what your motivation is. You're the overprotective geek friend/wannabe lover who thinks by defending her honor on some random geek message board, you will curry favor with her and this will somehow lead to her fucking you. I'm sad to inform you this will never happen.

    81. Re:Good Lord! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Benjamin Franklin had something to say in the matter:

      http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/franklin/franklin.html

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    82. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Excellent post. The flaw in your reasoning, however, is that you assume that you haven't met smart girls. You have met tons of them, and just didn't know it. Hint: "smartness" isn't just about being able to do scientific shit and logically deduct things. There are other forms of intelligence that are equally as important, much more important than your ego-centric logical mind (just like mine, and everyone's) would ever guess.

    83. Re:Good Lord! by ildon · · Score: 1

      I don't think you know what truthiness means.

    84. Re:Good Lord! by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The "everybody is smart, just in different ways" is total BS. That is what the stupid and self loathing tell each other.

      I'll leave it up to the reader to figure out which group you belong to based on your self depreciating logical error in claiming that you know other forms of intelligence are more important than you could guess.

    85. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or as my genious IQ wife would say: beauty fades, dumb is forever.

    86. Re:Good Lord! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Read an article from http://badphysics.wordpress.com/, spend a few futile minutes googling for more pictures and trying to internally reconcile her ravishing looks with such effortless eloquence and boundless intelligence, and then fall even deeper into self-loathing despair with the realization that even your hypothetical best version of yourself wouldn't be good enough for her.

      Why do people feel the need to go after unattainable women when attractive, attainable women are everywhere. Take Thailand for example, yes you wont get a conversation about nuclear physics but there is lots of great sex with no hang ups. Better yet unlike western chicks, she'll actually be nice to you and appreciative of the things you do for her.

      Besides this, breeding smart people with smart people normally produces a child of spectacular mediocrity, back to Thailand you'll find they are a people who are hardy, disease resistant and genetically diverse. Not to mention attractive,

      Did I mention the amazing sex with no hang ups?

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    87. Re:Good Lord! by GrahamCox · · Score: 1

      except dumb womens usually aren't any good in bed

      This is SOOOO not true. Much experience either way? Thought not.

    88. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No amount of makeup is gonna do anything to fix all that fat.

    89. Re:Good Lord! by tibman · · Score: 1
      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    90. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank god for subtlety!

    91. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much as I like geek girls, I was pretty pissed off when she said at the end that the clip made it "easier to explain to boys what they do". I found it blatantly sexist and demand an immediate apology.

      Phillip.

      Nope. Sexism only works one way.

    92. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 1

      The "everybody is smart, just in different ways" is total BS. That is what the stupid and self loathing tell each other.

      I'll leave it up to the reader to figure out which group you belong to based on your self depreciating logical error in claiming that you know other forms of intelligence are more important than you could guess.

      Hey buddy, here's a hint: using big words doesn't make you smart, or appear smart. (Especially when you misspell "deprecating.") Congratulations on the irony of being a prime example of an ignorant person who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. How does it feel to be outcompeted in every aspect of social life by those with much higher social intelligence than you?

    93. Re:Good Lord! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Dick? (checks) Nope. Houston we're ready for liftoff.

      My, aren't we the picky one?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    94. Re:Good Lord! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Come here sonny. I want to give a brief talk. I recently went to my 15th reunion, and you know those "hot" girls in my class? Well they ain't hot no more! In fact they were downright repulsive (sorry, but it was true).

      It seems impossible to believe that someone could be at least 18+15 = 33 years old and still have the sensibility of a fourteen year old, so I assume you are in fact about 14.
      If not, and you seriously think that women in their thirties are by definition repulsive, you have some major issues you need to address.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    95. Re:Good Lord! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      "prefer old Women to young ones..... Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Man, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a thousand Services, small and great, and are the most tender and useful of Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an Old Woman who is not a good Woman. " - B. Franklin

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    96. Re:Good Lord! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>you seriously think that women in their thirties are by definition repulsive

      Consider that 80% of Americans over the age of 30 are clinically overweight. My 15th reunion class was no different. Now maybe you are attracted to beerguts in girls, but I am not.

      Also consider many of these women be grandmas at my 20th reunion.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    97. Re:Good Lord! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Gain some self worth and a critical eye. A critical eye means you've got so many women hitting on you that you need to screen out the ones who are irritating or in some way unworthy of your attention.

      No, gaining self worth means that you don't have to adopt an absolutely unconvincing air of superiority and sexual irresistibility.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    98. Re:Good Lord! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Or build a vibrator

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    99. Re:Good Lord! by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Hey buddy, you are an idiot. The reason you should never complain about spelling in an argument, and never use it to try to prove your point is that it always backfires on inspection. Besides the facts that no one is claiming perfection, people make typos, and sometimes they are quick to click on the spell checker suggestion, clicking on the wrong one, if argued, you too will eventually make a spelling mistake turning your entire argument against itself.

      In this case we don't need to argue until you make your own spelling mistake. Why? Because your too stupid to read what you are writing. I did not misspell deprecating. I spelled depreciating correctly. Now, I know that depreciating is a 'big word' to 3rd graders and the mentally retarded, but most grown-ups, even the ones who are not too smart, would disagree with you.

      The fact that you cannot understand simple English doesn't mean that I am trying to appear smart by using big words. The tactic of complaining about the words instead of the content just reinforces the proof that you fall both into the stupid and the self loathing camps.

      And just to answer your question about being out competed by people that are more intelligent than me in the realm of social interaction? I feel about the same as I do towards people who are smarter than me in the realm of logic, math, or biology. Good for them. We should all strive for that. Unfortunately for you, that does nothing to support your argument that everyone is the same intelligence, and actually argues for with fact some people are smart and some people like you are dumb. Winning in social situations also frequently relies on things other than intelligence. E.g. Having a vagina is a huge asset at getting things from people in social settings. Having a vagina does NOT mean you have a "higher social intelligence". Neither does being born rich, being born beautiful, or being born in the right country. Having no ethics or morals COULD be argued as being smart, but that one is debatable. So, someone succeeding in social environments is not a particularly good indicator of 'higher social intelligence'.

      So, even in your hollow snipe, you fail to show any intelligence.

    100. Re:Good Lord! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sad to inform you this will never happen.

      Actually, you seem quite pleased about it.

    101. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 1

      No, gaining self worth means that you don't have to adopt an absolutely unconvincing air of superiority and sexual irresistibility.

      Reading comprehension fail.

    102. Re:Good Lord! by Kru)(fen · · Score: 1

      And you want us to believe that you know what you're talking about? in slashdot? really?

    103. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 1

      In this case we don't need to argue until you make your own spelling mistake. Why? Because your too stupid to read what you are writing. I did not misspell deprecating. I spelled depreciating correctly. Now, I know that depreciating is a 'big word' to 3rd graders and the mentally retarded, but most grown-ups, even the ones who are not too smart, would disagree with you.

      Depreciating is the wrong word for what you meant. Depreciating is what an asset does when it loses value. Deprecating is the correct adverb for this context and meaning. Idiot.

      As for the rest of your comment: you should try getting laid more often. Not only would you learn more about the various types of intelligence that do in fact exist, but you'd also learn more about what it takes to participate in society without resorting to flinging insults and anger at anyone who dares to disagree with you or correct you where you're wrong.

    104. Re:Good Lord! by Belial6 · · Score: 1
      Your limited vocabulary does not mean I am wrong. Here is a link to the definition for you since you are so aggressively ignorant that you certainly would not go look up the meaning yourself. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/depreciate

      While the word depreciating CAN apply to an asset, it does not have to. As the very first definition of the word says that it is "to lower in estimation or esteem". Go ahead. Look it up.

      Now that the issue of your limited vocabulary has been put to rest, I can point out that getting laid does not teach you about different types of intelligence. Smart people have sex. Dumb people have sex. Only an idiot would think that getting laid is a matter of intelligence. Heck, even flies have sex. Now, if you think that being as smart as a fly means your just smart in a different way, there really isn't much hope for you. For the rest of us, our intelligence goals are a little higher. Just in case you were confused, when people remark about men 'thinking with their penis'. That is a figure of speech.

      The fact that you call me an "idiot" in the same post that you say

      As for the rest of your comment: you should try getting laid more often. Not only would you learn more about the various types of intelligence that do in fact exist, but you'd also learn more about what it takes to participate in society without resorting to flinging insults and anger at anyone who dares to disagree with you or correct you where you're wrong.

      Would indicate that you attribute your lack of sex to be due to you not knowing what it takes to participate in society without resorting to flinging insults. I can tell you. It isn't because you throw insults. You will need to look elsewhere for the reason you can't get sex. And when you do, you will NOT find that it teaches you how smart the other people are.

      Finally, no one has argued that there are not different fields that smart people choose to focus on. The argument is about whether some people are smart, and some are dumb like you. Or, if your inane hypothesis is true and everyone has exactly the same level of intelligence, just in different areas. So, far, by your own standards, you are not "socially intelligent". You have proven that your language skills are horrible, and your logic skill are abysmal. So, your standing up as a shinning example of stupid people existing.

    105. Re:Good Lord! by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Let me rephrase that. You *have* to adopt an attitude of not being "sexually irresistable" or whatever, but that you consider yourself valuable and worthy of a good woman. Reality is something we can create. If you won't even believe in and act as if you believe in the reality of you being a good man with good qualities that women want, and that a woman would be lucky to have, and that you're not gonna settle for just any ole gal, then why the hell should a woman believe it?

    106. Re:Good Lord! by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Hmmm -- If you think beauty is all that matters to you when making love to a woman, perhaps you should consider trying sleeping with girls after the Rohypnol wears off. You will be amazed what a difference consciousness makes.

  3. Shortcut to "success": Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those little resistors probably justify the 40$ price tag of all the iPhone accessories, right?

    1. Re:Shortcut to "success": Monopoly by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

      I built an iPhone car charger: All the details.

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
  4. Magic still not found by tecnico.hitos · · Score: 1

    Better keep looking.

    --
    The good, the evil and the vacuum tubes.
  5. Should we have a... by Defenestrar · · Score: 2, Informative

    Right to repair our own electronics though? (Or build interface devices)?

    1. Re:Should we have a... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you even have to ask? Yes, we should have a right to repair, and a right to build interface devices.

      People often talk about how wasteful Americans are and the problems of a throw-away society. If people were more willing to repair their devices, especially complex electronic devices (most of which fail because of simple and repairable problems, like a broken lead), we would be better off. Aside from less electronics in landfills (let's face it, few people actually dispose of electronics properly), people would not be spending their money so quickly, and presumable that would mean fewer debt problems (or they might just spend it elsewhere).

      Of course, we will never see anyone other than a few activists pushing this sort of mentality -- corporations have enjoyed ever larger profits because people are unwilling and unable to repair their own equipment (or to find a local repairman to do it for them).

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Should we have a... by angelwolf71885 · · Score: 0

      with company's like apple lobbying i dont think thats gonna happen until, the next DMCA exemption 3 years from now

    3. Re:Should we have a... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Sorry to distract you from the "profit is evil" theme, but the reason consumer electronics can't be repaired in America is due to the fantastically high cost of labor there. But don't listen to me, read here:

      Do we repair DVD players?
      Yes and no. We recognize the fact that DVD players, like most electronics, were expensive when new. Now that the format has been on the market for over a decade, the cost of players has dropped radically. Most models are less than fifty dollars with all of the features one would dream of in a player. Repairs on DVD players are only economical a small fraction of the time. We recommend Albany merchants such as Target and Radio Shack as being good places to consider the purchase of a new DVD player.

      The source is a video repair shop in flyover territory which charges $60/hour for labor. Here in China, I can get my DVD player repaired for $3-10 because the cost of labor is so low. Indeed, one of the delights of living here is you can actually get things repaired. I'm just so used to automatically buying a new electric razor, rice cooker, electric lamp, (etc) when mine breaks. Here, I can actually get it fixed! In America, don't even bother phoning the repair shop as they'll just tell you that the cost of a new unit is less than the cost of their labor.

      Don't let that put you off of blaming stupid Americans who are unwilling and unable to repair their own equipment and of course blaming those eeeeevil profit-makers. The only people who see the world the right way are a small group of activists, for example yourself!

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    4. Re:Should we have a... by balbus000 · · Score: 1

      What I think (hope) the GP meant was "Should Apple be forced to disclose this information to everyone?"

      The Right to Repair that was linked is the bill that requires automobile manufacturers to give independent repair shops the same information that the dealer shops get.

    5. Re:Should we have a... by DrgnDancer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But you yourself admit to being unable or unwilling to repair your stuff, you just have access to cheap labor to do it for you. I mean sure, the American shop could work for $3-10... They wouldn't be able to pay for electricity to tell if the repairs were successful or not and they'd have to work out of a tent, but they could. The simple fact of the matter is that between the extremely small cost of electronics, and the generally quite reasonable desires of electronics repair people to be able to eat and pay their rent it's simply impractical to perform repairs on most consumer grade electronics.

      The expense involved in acquiring a decent electronics repair bench, plus the limit knowledge of electricity most people have makes self repair a sort of unavailable option.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    6. Re:Should we have a... by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      People often talk about how wasteful Americans are and the problems of a throw-away society. If people were more willing to repair their devices, especially complex electronic devices (most of which fail because of simple and repairable problems, like a broken lead), we would be better off

      Hmmm... I have a car charger that has a broken lead. I accidentally snapped it while dissasembling to figure out why it was giving me problems charging. Now, it could be that lead, or one of the other minor parts. My options are:

      1. Spend $30-50 bucks and many hours of my time to acquire the necessary tools and expertise to fix it (voltmeter and soldering iron)
      2. Spend hours locating someone willing to fix it. Pay them exorbitant amounts to fix it (at least 1 hour at $50/hr + shipping or travel).
      3. Buy a new one on amazon for $5-10 including shipping and get on with my life

      It's not that we're unwilling to fix our devices. We are willing, and we feel guilty for not doing so. However, it now costs significantly more (in both time and money) to fix most electronics than to replace them. Long gone are the local TV/Stereo repair shops that could fix most electronics. Hell, even old appliance repair shops have become a niche specialty that can be extremely hard to find.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    7. Re:Should we have a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that you imagine our debt problems could be solved by REPAIRING OUR GADGETS is horrifically funny. Getting modded up to "4" with this comic hyperbole is a frightening commentary on how far /. has fallen since its inception.

    8. Re:Should we have a... by machxor · · Score: 1

      If people were more willing to repair their devices, especially complex electronic devices (most of which fail because of simple and repairable problems, like a broken lead), we would be better off.

      If lack of motivation were the only problem then that would be awesome. I have a 42" Polaroid TV spread out across my garage because the power supply died. The PCB is relatively simple (ie: large parts/traces so even a noob solderer like me wouldn't have much trouble replacing a part) and the failed part is obvious (an exploded STR-A6252W IC manufactured by Sankren (Allegro Microsystems)). I can buy a, used, replacement power supply for ~1/5 the cost of a new TV but this isn't the first time I've seen this IC pop (from other forum posts) so who is to say a used one isn't also days away from failing (the TV was less than two years old when it failed)? I can only find a single source for the IC itself and even then it's ~$30 with shipping and it's not even clear it's the correct IC. Bottom line is that it doesn't seem cost effective for me to repair this TV given the options.

    9. Re:Should we have a... by camperslo · · Score: 1

      It's too bad there aren't case screws under the labels of most A.C. adapters these days. Most of them are glued together. So much for replacing a bad output cable, adjusting the voltage for another use (or changing a feedback resistor in the voltage sense circuit), or replacing a dried out capacitor...

      I doubt that it's fair to blame Americans for the current state of things. Most products actually made in the U.S. were (sorry about the tense) made so they could be serviced. But with low cost imports even most of the service people are gone. I can't remember the last time I drove past a tv repair shop. The few that claim to "fix" things now mostly just replace boards/modules.

      It's good to see there are a few people that enjoy playing with hardware. Even simple hacks are sometimes fun. Once by candlelight no less I cut and spliced together an old A.C. adapter cord and a Firewire cable power and ground. The result? A Macbook Firewire port could power a DSL modem to stay online during a power failure (like the one I was in when inspired to do it...)

    10. Re:Should we have a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it's too expensive to have something repaired. However, a lot of electronics can be repaired by anyone with average skills. I'm not talking about replacing parts on a circuit board, although that can be done by skilled amateurs too. But, many electronics can be repaired given some basic information, tools, and spare parts from online stores or ebay items from China. I remember the big manual that came with our TV as a kid that had all the drawings and parts listings you needed to do the repair. I refurbished my iRiver H340 when its HDD got fubared - it took me about an hour and cost less that $75 for a 8GB* CF card, a CF to IDE adapter. It's not too difficult.

      * - I opted for a smaller capacity because I only use it as a concert recording device and rely on my HTC Incredible for music.

    11. Re:Should we have a... by steelfood · · Score: 1

      How about learning how to repair electronics and doing it on your own?

      I mean, there's plenty of people who're more than willing to repair their car on their own, irrespective of whether they actually know what they're doing or not.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    12. Re:Should we have a... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      In a related note, I often find the cost of fixing something is greater than just buying a new one. I think it's some sort of supply/demand thing, where nobody wants to buy spare parts, but everyone wants a new/shiny one.

      It's definitely EASIER and far safer for somebody with no electrical experience to replace than repair as well.

    13. Re:Should we have a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo.

      I always tell the Americans to be happy they can't get things fixed. It means they don't have to work for $10 a day, and that their labor value is greater than the robot's that made the device.

    14. Re:Should we have a... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I can't find a price for an iRiver H340, but if you spent $75 to fix it...wtf??? You can get new mp3 players with more storage for $75! At what point is your savings really just an excuse to support your hobby?

    15. Re:Should we have a... by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Tell me about it, but its frustrating to get into the hardware end of things.

      I recently had a small auxiliary Fridge suddenly die. Its still getting lights, but the main appliance fuse blew.

      Opening things up, it looks like one or two of the Capacitors went.

      The good news: the circuit board seems to have lots of space.

      The bad news: I've never soldered anything in my life (let alone de-soldered to remove the bad caps first). On the other hand, I'd rather spend 20$ in parts compared to 450$ to replace the fridge. :/

      To have it serviced is going to be at least $200-$300 in their time, assuming they even replace capacitors instead of merely saying "we can't get a replacement board".

      Good thing I have a friend who is into hardware to walk through it with me though, otherwise I might not have much choice.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    16. Re:Should we have a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      even apple usually just replaces iphones sent in for service instead of repairing them. they don't find it economically feasible to repair the phones when they could instead just throw another one to the customer and hopefully scavenge some parts from the broken phone.

    17. Re:Should we have a... by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      If people were more willing to repair their devices, especially complex electronic devices (most of which fail because of simple and repairable problems, like a broken lead), we would be better off.

      I once fixed my mom's TV remote. All it took was a lucky guess ("this shouldn't move around like this") and a drop of solder.

      I've also recently performed minor (if precarious and foolhardy) repairs on a Eee PC and a BlackBerry.

      On the other hand, my DVD player is giving me pains right now. Dollars to donuts it's a problem with the motor or other mechanics -- maybe it's not spinning at a consistent rate, or the bushings aren't holding the disc stable, or a fixture has worn over time and there's too much vibration in the system. Either way we're probably talking about some minor, barely perceptible problem that will take me hours of tinkering to track down. Meanwhile I could go down to Best Buy and buy a new one for $60 and the new one will probably play DivX and will upconvert to 1080p, too. Or I could drop a little more cash and get a Blu-Ray player. Even if I succeeded in repairing my old DVD player later, I wouldn't be able to sell it to anyone for more than $20, especially if they knew I'd repaired it myself. So what's the point?

      Honestly, I understand the environmental problems associated with disposable plastic gadgets and electronics, but gone are the days when you can expect us to hang onto electronics for 30 years and pass them on to our kids. My TV needs a converter box just to pick up over-the-air broadcasts these days.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    18. Re:Should we have a... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Sorry to distract you from the "profit is evil" theme, but the reason consumer electronics can't be repaired in America is due to the fantastically high cost of labor there. But don't listen to me, read here:

      Sorry to distract you from the "But teh labour is too expensive in Amercia" rant but a $3/h repair job in China is fine when you're on US$40K a year but when you're on US$2K it's just as expensive as the "hyper inflated cost of labour in America".

      Economy scales, you're paying roughly the same in the US as the Chinese are in China. Any differences can be attributed to skill shortage/abundance. For a Chinese person, Chinese labour is not cheap.

      My Chinese born friend (Most HK born, being a British protectorate up until 99 made it easy to get into AU) will pretty much take a screwdriver to anything that is broken long before they even think of taking it to a repair person. Their second step is to call one of their friends around to do it for cheap. The concept of "Mates Rates" in Australia means that you effectively get $60/h work for far less because you or one of your friends is friends with the person who is doing the work. Quite often, people fix things for a "carton" (a case of beer, which is an alcoholic beverage containing around 4-5% alcohol made from barely and hops. Beer traditionally has a distinct flavour, I thought I'd include that as American beer lacks these qualities).

      The biggest problem with American labor is that it lacks "u". Americans just aren't willing to pick up a screwdriver or instruction manual and figure out how to fix something simple. It's easier just to throw it out and buy a new one, the disposable electronics culture evolved because of this not the other way around. If you put the "u" back in labour the cost plummets as you're only paying for your own time.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    19. Re:Should we have a... by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      Protip: you don't have to unsolder the old cap! You can simply snip the legs of it so they stay soldered to the mainboard, standing upright, and then solder the new cap's legs to these. Much easier than messing with surface mount solder!

    20. Re:Should we have a... by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Thanks very much for the tip, that should make it much easier. :)

      Now I just need to find the replacement caps (I took down the uF and V measurements from the outside, but Radio Shack didn't have any matches. :(

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    21. Re:Should we have a... by Kuma-chang · · Score: 1

      Sorry to distract you from the "But teh labour is too expensive in Amercia" rant but a $3/h repair job in China is fine when you're on US$40K a year but when you're on US$2K it's just as expensive as the "hyper inflated cost of labour in America".

      Economy scales, you're paying roughly the same in the US as the Chinese are in China. Any differences can be attributed to skill shortage/abundance. For a Chinese person, Chinese labour is not cheap.

      This is nonsense. Manufactured goods are not radically cheaper in China than in the US. Labor is. Think about what you're saying for a second. Manufactured goods are highly transportable. If the exact same goods sold in China for a fraction of the price they sell for in the US, how long would it take for large importers to make a fortune arbitraging that price difference until the prices balance out? In fact, Walmart has already done this. The fact that China keeps its currency devalued against the dollar only exacerbates the matter. Labor is cheap in China. Goods and services that are labor-centric and based on local market pricing are cheap (food, housing generally) compared to a Western nation. But prices for manufactured goods are pretty similar to what they'd be anywhere else. Labor is cheap in China, EVEN FOR CHINESE PEOPLE. In that sense, a Chinese company will simply throw more manpower at something that in the US we would instead deploy more machinery and technology (e.g., construction, agriculture). And people in China do repair everything because taking it to a repairman is cheaper than buying a new one.

    22. Re:Should we have a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, the fact that you are a retard that can't read says more about how far /. has fallen than the OP.

    23. Re:Should we have a... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      This is nonsense. Manufactured goods are not radically cheaper in China than in the US. Labor is

      Re-read that part of my post you quoted. I never said anything about manufactured goods

      I said, to a Chinese person, Chinese labour is not cheap.

      High wages in the west lead to high labour costs, low wages in the east lead to low labour costs. The primary driver for higher base wages is the fact that things cost more.

      Having actually travelled to Asia, hiring labour is not cheap when you earn less then US$3K a year thus you end up doing most things yourself.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  6. Not surprising by Glendale2x · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lots of companies do this. APC puts a RS-232 serial port on a UPS but wait! They move the pins around so you need a special cable. Cisco used to have a product called the Gigastack that used a standard 6-pin Firewire cable, but no! Pins 1&2 were shorted in the "special" cables Cisco provided.

    --
    this is my sig
    1. Re:Not surprising by GungaDan · · Score: 1

      Huh? I have never needed a "special" serial cable for any of our APC SmartUPS. And we do use the serial interface - USB is too easy to accidentally yank out.

      --
      Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    2. Re:Not surprising by operagost · · Score: 1

      Maybe you aren't using Powerchute, because if you were you would definitely need an APC cable. In fact, the smart features require a different cable from the "dumb" Back-Ups.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    3. Re:Not surprising by camperdave · · Score: 1

      APC puts a RS-232 serial port on a UPS but wait! They move the pins around so you need a special cable.

      Just because a port is using a DB9F connector does not mean that the port is a serial port. For example, Atari joysticks used a DB9F connector.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:Not surprising by Glendale2x · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe you aren't using Powerchute, because if you were you would definitely need an APC cable. In fact, the smart features require a different cable from the "dumb" Back-Ups.

      Not true for the "smart" units; RX and TX are pins 1 and 2 on the UPS DB9 connector. If you're using powerchute then short 1,4 and 7,8 on the host side so it will "detect" the cable. It's still RS-232, the cable isn't magic. Here's a handy table.

      --
      this is my sig
    5. Re:Not surprising by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      They move the pins around so you need a special cable. Cisco used to have a product called the Gigastack that used a standard 6-pin Firewire cable, but no! Pins 1&2 were shorted in the "special" cables Cisco provided.

      At least those will just fail to work. Dell used to reverse the pins on the AT power connector so that if you used an aftermarket power supply it would burn out your motherboard. DAMHINT.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    6. Re:Not surprising by thogard · · Score: 1

      Atari was using a DB9 for joysticks when RS232 was still using DB25.

    7. Re:Not surprising by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Dell used to reverse the pins on the AT power connector so that if you used an aftermarket power supply it would burn out your motherboard.

      I think it takes an almost pure level of evilness for its own sake to think of doing that. So I imagine a lot of ex-Dell engineers now work for Google.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  7. all the ebay crap works by alen · · Score: 1

    i've bought iphone charging cables on ebay for $2 each including shipping and they all seem to work. via the USB and in my car. sometimes i've pulled it out a bit by accident and i get the error. put the cable all the way back in and it works.

    1. Re:all the ebay crap works by cygnwolf · · Score: 1

      I've seen a lot of the off brand chargers have been reported to brick your pod though. I know I looked for an alternative to the $40 dock for my g2 shuffle for a long time. Found a lot, but never any where someone had anything good to say about them. This explains a lot of t hat.

      --
      Free Pie! The Pie is Also Evil!
    2. Re:all the ebay crap works by localman57 · · Score: 1

      Yeah. They work fine for a while. Part of what you're paying for is engineering. It's easy to provide something that looks like 5 volts to a simple multimeter.

      But you plug a cheap cigarette lighter USB charger in, and put a scope on it. Then do things like crank the engine, turn your AC blower on/off, etc, and see what happens.

      Good quality chargers typically have extra components to filter out the sort of nasty, very fast spikes (often 30 v or more) that come over a car's 12v (13 to 14 really) lines. Some of the knock-offs are good. Other's aren't. Don't be surprised if you open it, and find 4 resistors and an old 7805 regulator inside. At that point you're relying on luck, not engineering, to protect your precious iPhone.

    3. Re:all the ebay crap works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DC-DC convertors are cheap and you can get them everywhere. For example,

      http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=576-1216-ND

      Per datasheet, it gives you +- 3% regulation. That's much better than a computer's USB port. It accepts input anywhere up to 24V and for any spikes, you can easily fix that with 10c worth of components to filter them.

      As for small spikes, that's why any company worth any money is putting at least protection diodes and caps on inputs of the charged derive, not the charger themselves.

      Apple is simply trying to maintain 100% monopoly on all accessories for their devices. They are definitely not trying to "protect" these devices!!

    4. Re:all the ebay crap works by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yup things like capacitors diodes and voltage regulators.

      Even the $4.99 cheapies I found online filter all that out. A DMM is junk for checking that use a digital storage scope.... less than .1v ripple from the cheapie I got online.

      Now the caps will blow up in 16 months... but that's a different issue.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  8. just make a standard USB charging brick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    200 Ohm resistor between the D+ and D-.

    Recent iPods and Phones/Touches will use it to charge at 500mA or more. And it'll be compatible with a lot more non-Apple devices than this device is.

    See "Battery Charging v1.1 spec and adopters agreement" on this page:

    http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs

    Or search for "USB-IF charging".

    1. Re:just make a standard USB charging brick by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      200 ohms is the maximum (you'll be out of spec if your resistor is 201 ohms). There is no minimum; what the spec means is that you should just short the data pins together.

      I'm glad that someone else has bothered to test this; for a moment I thought I was the only one who knew that recent iStuff follows the official spec, since everyone seems to keep on using the same old resistor hacks.

  9. Place your bets by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1, Interesting

    How long will it be before the take down notice arrives?
    Someone download the plans, and put them up on a torrent site quick.

    --
    If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    1. Re:Place your bets by v1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Reading the article, it appears that the purpose of the resistors is NOT to lock out manufacturers, but to inform the ipod of the amount of current to draw from the charger. They found different manufacturers using different values of resistors. From the looks of it, one resistor sets the amount, and the other resister serves as a "checksum of sorts, complementing the other resistor correctly to verify the value. Getting the value wrong could very easily cause a fire, so this is important to make sure you get it right.

      This is not surprising, as USB does not allow variable voltage, and current is supplied completely on demand with no regard to the provider. So you either have your device set to draw a fixed amount of power (current) and limit your options to *1*, or you develop some simpler way to tell the device how much power (current) a device can demand from any given charger.

      The only other option would be to use the data pins and actually communicate over the usb spec normally and outright tell the device how much power to draw. (which is actually already in the USB specs) Apple would have probably preferred to go this route, but that would significantly increase the complexity of the power adapters. All the people that are whining about Apple being nasty about this need to get some education. Apple's other two options were to make chargers cost more, or to not be able to offer both fast (wall power) and slow (AA batts) chargers.

      The only group that's more thick-headed than the Apple zealots, are the anti-Apple zealots.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    2. Re:Place your bets by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      The only group that's more thick-headed than the Apple zealots, are the anti-Apple zealots.

      I am not a zealot of any sort, except anti MS. As it happens I own several Apple products and am planning to buy an iPhone 4 in a few months when they get its issues sorted out.
      That said: Apple tends to be pretty quick with the lawyers and take down notices.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    3. Re:Place your bets by cynyr · · Score: 1

      the 2 resistors on the data lines are a "voltage divider", DC electronics 101. So any 2 that will give you 2.8v and 2.0v will work. the larger value the better, for less "bleed" current.

      This gives me incentive to figure out what the difference is between my usb plug on the end of normal power cord and the official Nokia one is. It is just a 2 pin round plug, but at low battery levels I get "unsupported charger" the charger says "5VDC 500mA" which seems like USB spec to me. but alas it doesn't work.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    4. Re:Place your bets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe I'm missing something, but why does the adapter need to know how much power to draw? Especially since the USB iWhatever chargers I've seen all seem to work for different several different Apple products. Wouldn't it make more sense for the adapter to be an inexpensive, dumb cable, and the device itself to do the enumeration and such?

    5. Re:Place your bets by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      It is, that's the point. The device is able to tell, based on the resistance in the line, what type of dumb charger is plugged in. The resistors are basically a little code that the device can read to tell how much power to draw. This is important, because a car or house charger can allow the device to charge itself much more quickly than, say, an external battery charger.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    6. Re:Place your bets by v1 · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm missing something, but why does the adapter need to know how much power to draw?

      That's actually backwards. The adapter needs to tell the device how much power it's ALLOWED to draw, because the adapter is limited in how much current it can safely provide, and it can vary greatly from charger to charger. For this, there has to be some way for the adapter to communicate with (or at least TO) the device. (communication can be one-way for this basic need) Either do it the expensive and more complex way (USB data), the cheaper way (drop resistors, as is being done now) or not at all. (eliminating the option for different current levels altogether)

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    7. Re:Place your bets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading the article, it appears that the purpose of the resistors is NOT to lock out manufacturers, but to inform the ipod of the amount of current to draw from the charger.

      Okay, that's the purpose of the resistors then.

      Now, please, explain to me: what is the purpose of forcing manufacturers to sign an NDA before telling them about the resistors, and threatening them with legal action if they dare to reveal the secret?

      Is that somehow for our benefit too, or will you grant that Apple are, in fact, control freaks who want to pick and choose which third parties they deign to allow to make accessories for their products?

    8. Re:Place your bets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except nearly everything there was her learning about the USB Specification through experimentation rather than reading. Turns out Apple Engineers read the spec and followed it.

    9. Re:Place your bets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      USB spec only allows 500mA if it is negotiated. So if you have a dumb charger that doesn't actually communicate, any USB compliant device can only draw 100mA without violating the spec. There is a newer USB spec that allows up to 900mA current draw (after negotiation) when not communicating over the USB bus, and it also defines the use of voltage dividers on the data pins for dedicated charging ports, which can be used to "negotiate" charging current up to the design limits of the socket and connector (typically 1.5A, but apparently the iPad wants 2A for fast charging so there must be high current sockets and connectors available).

  10. USB? by weeeeed · · Score: 1

    Every iPod/iPhone ships with an USB cable: i use that one together with a $5 USB charger.... Where's the problem? Why do i need to build my own charger?

    1. Re:USB? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      As the article mentions, you need to do 'special' stuff to get >100mA out of a USB port (as the USB specification requires). Besides, they are using batteries to recharge the other device which can't give 1A for a very long time which is what the iPhone requires. As the article mentions, you don't want to put in a chip to negotiate the requirements ($$$) so you mess around with voltage dividers on the data busses to negotiate what your charging device can provide. You also don't want to pull out more than a charger can provide or you will kill it. USB ports were never meant to be charging at high current in the first place.

      There's nothing 'secret' about it as the poster of the Slashdot article makes it out to be. You can reverse engineer all of this for any number of devices, you'll be hard pressed to find any manufacturers that actually provide specs for charging devices through USB ports. The fact that Apple does it in a better way than just connecting 5V and GND and ignoring the USB specs and just drawing a great amount of current is not evil, the fact that others (Samsung) take out my USB port everytime their 'USB charger' is used is evil.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re:USB? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Perhaps because you want to get your power from a device that does not have USB outputs?

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    3. Re:USB? by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      TFA is about building a portable recharger that runs off AA batteries. I know this is slashdot, but come on.

  11. okaaaay.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the trick to reverse engineering an Apple charger protection is to look at another third party charger and copy what they did.

    The beginning is great, but that end is a complete letdown in the article.

  12. secret resistors abound by SpinningCone · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i hate when manufacturers do crap like this to keep peripherals locked into a more profitable licensing agreement. Apples tendency toward total control is one of the things i don't like about them.

    tho other manufacturers are just as bad. i will never buy a Dell for my home for the same reasons. at work we had an Out of warranty gx 270 desktop. they were know for their bad capacitors in the power supply. so lo and behold the PS goes out. i have to spec a new one. at first i thought i would hop down to the local PC store and grabe a cheap PS for like $30 would work fine.

    found out that the motherboards on those dells had different pin layouts from regular boards. the connector was the same as your usual PS but the lines were scrambled. if you plugged in a PS from the PC store you would fry the mobo. thus i would have to get a new PS from the dell store at a cost of $115 ..

    we opted for a used PS from a 3rd party supplier for $30 instead.

    wish companies would back off and be more open. the way things seem to go we're heaed back to the old at&t days when it took a court action just to add a funnel to your telephone handset http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hush-A-Phone/

    1. Re:secret resistors abound by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Any company in their right mind should be leasing PCs for the duration of their warranty period. If the PC is used as a license server or runs some nodelocked application, then real server-class hardware should be used anyway. Trying to save money by using a desktop instead of a server never results in net savings.

    2. Re:secret resistors abound by Chirs · · Score: 1

      "Trying to save money by using a desktop instead of a server never results in net savings."

      It doesn't always, but it certainly can. We have many desktop-class machines running linux that have been going just fine for years with no attention other than adding some RAM and hard drive space a few years back.

    3. Re:secret resistors abound by cynyr · · Score: 3, Informative

      It looks more like a way to signal to the iPhone that it can go ahead and "fast charge" by pulling 1A, or "slow charge" by pulling 0.5A. They just didn't tell anyone about how to do it.

      As for your dell power supply, just get one of those "ATX power" extension things, cut in half, "scramble" the wires in the right way, get a working dell PSU, and then start selling it. see http://pinouts.ru/Power/dell_atxpower_pinout.shtml for the pinouts.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    4. Re:secret resistors abound by Tickety-boo · · Score: 1
      --
      Reading made Don Quixote a gentleman. Believing what he read made him mad.
    5. Re:secret resistors abound by illumin8 · · Score: 1

      i hate when manufacturers do crap like this to keep peripherals locked into a more profitable licensing agreement. Apples tendency toward total control is one of the things i don't like about them.

      It's also possible, you know, that Apple wants to make sure your several hundred dollar iThingie just doesn't get fried by a USB charger that doesn't put out the right power signal.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
    6. Re:secret resistors abound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm calling bullshit. I have two dells and a gateway and they are all ATX compatable.

      in fact the first thing I did with the one was replace the powersupply so I could run a PCI vid card.

      nice try though.

    7. Re:secret resistors abound by wbo · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that was a Dell Optiplex GX-270 you worked on? I have repaired countless Dell Optiplex PCs from the GX-240 series up through the GX-745 series and I have never seen anything other than standard ATX power supplies in them, and when I was replacing bad power supplies in GX-270s and GX-280s due to the bad capacitor issues I always used standard ATX supplies from Corsair or Antec with no problems.

      Now Dell did scramble the ATX connections on some of their home models (Dimension series primarly) but that only lasted for a couple of years and all Dimensions produced after 2005 or so use standard ATX supplies. As far as I know Dell never used non-standard supplies in any of their enterprise lines including the Optiplex line.

    8. Re:secret resistors abound by StayFrosty · · Score: 1

      I know this is a "My anecdote vs. yours" thing, but I've used standard power supplies in dozens of Dell machines over the years including several Optiplex GX 270's. In most cases I had to modify the case--drill mounting holes or cut the opening bigger for cooling fan or power plug clearance--but I never ran in to a situation where the wiring was different. In fact, I worked in a dell shop and was certified to work on dells when this GX270 fiasco was going on. They sent me a free power supply tester that was pretty much identical to this one except it had a dell logo. I used that tester on many standard power supplies and the LEDs for the voltages on the 20/24 pin connector worked exactly the same way. It's worth noting that all of the GX270s I worked on were the tower form factor. I know they used different boards in the desktop form factor machines so I don't have evidence either way there.

      --
      "Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
    9. Re:secret resistors abound by qwertyatwork · · Score: 1
    10. Re:secret resistors abound by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      It doesn't always, but it certainly can. We have many desktop-class machines running linux that have been going just fine for years with no attention other than adding some RAM and hard drive space a few years back.

      And when the hardware breaks? If you're not running something nodelocked on it, okay, replacing the PC outright is certainly cheap enough and cost-effective enough, since you'll get a few more years out of it.

    11. Re:secret resistors abound by xenapan · · Score: 1

      why not! if you get it fried by some 3rd party charger, it probably voids your warranty and forces you to buy a new one.

      --
      insert funny sig here
    12. Re:secret resistors abound by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      I remember Optiplex GX1's from about 2000-2002 using non-standard wiring on the PSU connectors. Fitting a "standard" PSU let the magic smoke out of the motherboard. Although the size and shape of these coprorate desktop's PSUs meant that you usually couldn't fit a standard PSU in the case anyway.
      On the plus side, you could field strip the whole machine in no time at all so provided you had a source of spares from other dead Optiplexes (not usually a problem!) then you could get your user back up and running in no time. I kind of liked those old machines.

    13. Re:secret resistors abound by Megane · · Score: 1
      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    14. Re:secret resistors abound by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      mmm though i've noticed that on some optiplexes now they use a micro-fit rather than a mini fit JR for the main connector. I think the pinout is the same but i'm not sure.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  13. usb standard chargers in china (and europe etc)? by joostje · · Score: 4, Insightful
    According to wikipedia,

    China and other countries are making a national standard on mobile phone chargers using the USB standard.[13] Starting in 2010, Apple, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung and RIM will begin making handsets with a standard phone charger based on the micro-USB connector

    But the shown resistors don't look like the standard micro-USB connector. So is Apple breaking it's prommisses? Or am I missing something?

  14. Confused by Qwavel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Doesn't it just use micro USB like all the other new phones?

    I thought that the EU had forced all of the cell phone makers to adopt micro USB for charging and that they had complied by adopting the standard everywhere (not just in the EU).

    I probably don't need to make this point here on /., but I think this is a great development. The convenience and cost saving to me as a consumer are substantial.

    Has Apple managed to avoid this?

    1. Re:Confused by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Doesn't it just use micro USB like all the other new phones?

      I thought that the EU had forced all of the cell phone makers to adopt micro USB for charging and that they had complied by adopting the standard everywhere (not just in the EU).

      This is the EU that you are discussing. Rules don't come into force overnight. Also, it appears that the rules can be satisfied by selling an adapter. Apple sells such adapters.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    2. Re:Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, not to mention the waste of resources that go into creating special chargers for every handheld electronic device. You'd think the manufactures would be all over this, cut the cost of chargers from production and keep the price the same. More profits for them, less hassle for everyone else.

    3. Re:Confused by mdm-adph · · Score: 1

      More profits from them? Compared to making sure that novice cell phone users have to buy a specific $0.50 charger from them for $20? Surely you jest.

      --
      It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
    4. Re:Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much all modern cell phones have standard mini-USB charging. It's bloody great. I'm surprised apple would still prevent a standard USB connection from charging one of there devices. Glad I stopped buying there stuff a couple of years ago.

    5. Re:Confused by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      That surprises you? Really? This is Apple we're talking about. They'll put a non standard port on their devices, then happily sell you a bevy of stylish white plastic adapters for $30 a pop.

    6. Re:Confused by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      It's a great idea. Except that microUSB is so new and scarce that my local electronics store wanted to charge me $30 for clearly a $5 cable. Nor could they supply microUSB-miniUSB adapters. One day I'll get around to shopping online for some...

      Also, it's dependant on whether one's host computer's USB ports can pump out sufficient juice. On every such computer I've tried, the charging cycle is incredibly slow when compared to using the phone's supplied AC-USB adapter.

    7. Re:Confused by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Pretty much all modern cell phones have standard mini-USB charging. It's bloody great. I'm surprised apple would still prevent a standard USB connection from charging one of there devices. Glad I stopped buying there stuff a couple of years ago.

      Actually, most cheap USB chargers have little more to do with USB specification than their output and connector. Apple, ironically, does more to respect the specification by going through the trouble to keep their device from grabbing for current that might not be there.

      Now, if iPhones/whatever actually had a mini-USB plug on the device I'd cry foul, like some cell phones do yet only charge off branded chargers.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    8. Re:Confused by babyrat · · Score: 1

      Except that microUSB is so new and scarce that my local electronics store wanted to charge me $30 for clearly a $5 cable.

      scarce and rare? I went to Fry's and they had them on the shelf. $6.99 for 6ft, $5.99 for 3 foot.

    9. Re:Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that microUSB is so new and scarce that my local electronics store wanted to charge me $30 for clearly a $5 cable

      Wow, that sucks. My local electronics store had plenty in stock (not quite as many as mini USB though) and charged me about $3 for your obviously $5 cable.

    10. Re:Confused by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It's a great idea. Except that microUSB is so new and scarce that my local electronics store wanted to charge me $30 for clearly a $5 cable. Nor could they supply microUSB-miniUSB adapters. One day I'll get around to shopping online for some...

      You can get them for a couple of quid including postage on ebay in the UK.

      Also, it's dependant on whether one's host computer's USB ports can pump out sufficient juice. On every such computer I've tried, the charging cycle is incredibly slow when compared to using the phone's supplied AC-USB adapter.

      I've found the reverse to be true and that phones now charge much quicker via USB and computer than using the mains charger. Maybe UK mains is weaker than the supply where you are?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:Confused by machxor · · Score: 1

      Also, it's dependant on whether one's host computer's USB ports can pump out sufficient juice. On every such computer I've tried, the charging cycle is incredibly slow when compared to using the phone's supplied AC-USB adapter.

      Actually the spec is very clear on how much power the USB port should pump out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power

      With that said chances are that your AC-USB adapter is putting out about 1.5A or so which is more than using a Y-USB cable could provide.

    12. Re:Confused by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Nah, my phone and my bluetooth headset and my boss' blackberry and my other colleague's Android phone all charge quicker from UK mains power than via the USB cable plugged into my laptop's docking station.

      Which might say more about your main power adaptor and my laptop docking station than anything else..

  15. How is this different by Jabrwock · · Score: 1

    than any company that makes products with custom dongles to interface/charge their batteries? All I see is that Apple found a way slightly more clever than just making a unique connector shape...

    --
    Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
    1. Re:How is this different by dawning · · Score: 1

      Proprietary connectors are NOT "clever", they're generally asinine and should be considered criminal unless a DAMNED fine case can be made each time.

    2. Re:How is this different by sjames · · Score: 1

      Other than being far more likely to trigger a smug alert, Apple are no different than the other rat bastards.

    3. Re:How is this different by Jabrwock · · Score: 1

      "Clever" compared to simply changing the shape. Relatively speaking of course. And really, the only law that's a problem here is not the lack of "it's illegal to design a new connector", which is asinine in itself, is the law preventing 3rd party manufacturers from making compatible connectors. THAT law is the TRWTF.

      --
      Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
    4. Re:How is this different by JSBiff · · Score: 1

      After RTFA, I'm not sure, but it seems to me that at least part of the reason Apple did what it did was that it wanted to violate the USB spec without causing damage to other USB hardware the user might plug in. Which seems reasonable. That is, what I got from the linked site is that the USB Spec says that devices are supposed to negotiate on the data lines when they draw power - but almost nobody wants to include expensive USB chips in their chargers to implement the negotiation the right way. So, I think, Apple decided that since their phone could draw (relatively) large amperage (up to 1 amp), without negotiating over the USB data, they would use a 'simpler' negotiation protocol - the charger and the device could negotiate a mutually supported charging rate by having the charger set the two data lines at specified voltages.

      If Apple *hadn't* done that, and an iPhone tried to draw 1Amp off that person's "MintyBoost" charger, it sounds like it could have caused the device to possibly damage itself, or possibly cause the batteries to overheat or something.

      Seems Apple took a somewhat reasonable step to protect against such accidents (and the resulting lawsuits). It's *not so nice* that Apple didn't freely share that information, but the technical step of not drawing power off devices which don't negotiate the charging rate, doesn't seem completely unreasonable.

    5. Re:How is this different by Jabrwock · · Score: 1

      Interesting, I wonder if that kind of "hardwired" negotiation will make it into the next USB spec.

      --
      Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
  16. Chinese knock offs. by Kenja · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most third party chargers I see for Apple hardware are Chinese knock-offs purchased for under 20$ from eBay. I somehow doubt these manufacturers signed anything.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  17. Monoprice! by alphax45 · · Score: 1

    Monoprice had (has?) iPod/iPhone USB cables for 0.69 (USD). I picked up 6 a few weeks ago. (They had a limit of 6 per order). The cheapest I could find them in a store around here was ~ 10 (CND). Even with the shipping buying the six from Mono was cheaper.

    --
    K Man
  18. Mod parent INSIGHTFUL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeaaahhhhhh

  19. Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Signed, Randall Munroe

  20. She explained things wuite well. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1

    She did a great job explaining things in the video and her webpage (that is her's righ?) is very clear and even showed how she got the voltages - she didn't label them but there was a clear Ohm's Law calculation there for the voltage dividers.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  21. Re:usb standard chargers in china (and europe etc) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this case, "based on the micro-USB connector" most likely was interpreted by Apple to mean "one end plugs into USB". I mean, that's based on USB, right?

    In other words, Apple in effect confirmed they were entirely giving up on Firewire. :-)

  22. The wrong game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the game could be won only by getting highest sales numbers, Apple would have given up on Macs 3 decades ago.

  23. Re:Stupid chargers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    While trollish, the parent post does have a point. Is there a practical reason that the iPhone / iPod cannot be recharged and / or synced via a simple USB mico connector interface?

  24. Re:usb standard chargers in china (and europe etc) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They sell an adapter for $90 :)

  25. Just read the damn specs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read the USB battery charging specification, you clods. You've probably never heard of it because it's relatively new and isn't covered by your dead-tree book you picked up at the local library, but it's what most manufacturers follow.

  26. Re:Stupid chargers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Perhaps Steve's RDF interferes with how they operate?

  27. Re:Stupid chargers by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is there a practical reason that the iPhone / iPod cannot be recharged and / or synced via a simple USB mico connector interface?

    Yes... Profit!

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  28. Another current negotiation method by tepples · · Score: 1

    So you either have your device set to draw a fixed amount of power (current) and limit your options to *1*, or you develop some simpler way to tell the device how much power (current) a device can demand from any given charger.

    If current is within normal limits, supply +5V on the +5V line. If current exceeds normal limits, supply 0 V for a split second. The device ramps up the current it can draw until the charger starts cutting out and then steps down the current.

    1. Re:Another current negotiation method by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      the flaw in that is it provides no way for a device compliant with your spec to know if what it is connected to is alkso compliant, just "start drawing and wait for a blip or a fire"

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  29. Apple is doing the right thing here by marcansoft · · Score: 5, Informative

    We all love to call out Apple when they design deliberate incompatibility into their devices, but there is a perfectly valid technical reason for what Apple is doing here, and, in fact, they are following a USB specification (which LadyAda unfortunaterly didn't even test).

    Without data communications or when suspended, devices may legally draw no more than 2.5mA from a host, which is useless for charging. In fact, even if you're generous and pretend they're connected, devices are not allowed to draw more than 100mA without negotiating for a higher current, which requires actually talking to the host, and 100mA is still too little to charge properly. 500mA is the maximum allowed by the USB spec, but devices must negotiate it (there may be too many devices on the bus for negotiation to succeed).

    Before there was a spec for "dumb" USB chargers, Apple used the resistors as a sentinel to avoid drawing too much current from undersized chargers in order to avoid damaging the host. This is a hack, but it works, and honestly, we're smart enough to figure out a couple resistors on the data lines. It's not like they're using crypto auth on the charger. They have a perfectly valid reason to do this. Devices which charge from "dumb" chargers aren't following the spec, though this is a common industry practice.

    As it turns out, the USB-IF came up with a USB Battery Charging spec. The spec is long and boring, but it boils down to: short together the data lines (no resistors required) and you indicate that you're a dumb charger that can supply anywhere from 0.5A to 1.5A.

    Guess what happens when you short the data lines of an iPhone 3G and supply 5V. Did Apple just follow a standard? Incredible!

    (Yes, I'm not following the USB spec there by in turn using a USB cable to supply the 5V and not negotiating over its data lines. I didn't feel like grabbing a dedicated 5V PSU for the shot, so sue me.)

    1. Re:Apple is doing the right thing here by IICV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I just wanted to point out that if you RTFA (instead of just WTFV), you'll see that Lady Ada does in fact acknowledge that the USB spec says some things. Here, I'll quote it for you:

      We thought "is there a enumeration chip inside every charger?" but since thats expensive and kind of overkilly we decided instead to read up on the USB protocol (go Jan!) In particular, in her fantastic book there's a part about the low level signaling states. Since you want to get the iPod charging, but NOT make it try to enumerate, we figured that we should see if there was some sort of special state you could put the data lines into that would say "no computer is attached but there is power". Turns out there is! Its called the SEI and occurs when BOTH data lines are at 3V. For mega details, read this chapter

      And if you did watch the video, you'll notice that around 1 minute she says "for iPhones and iPods, they actually use these data lines in kinda... non-standard ways", with obvious hesitation before "non-standard".

      The USB standard can say one thing, but if actual in practice implementations vary significantly, then something that conforms to the standard in theory can be non-standard in practice.

      She's glossing over that distinction and this whole discussion by just saying "non-standard" in the video, since spending five minutes talking about this would not be conducive to the demonstration she was performing.

    2. Re:Apple is doing the right thing here by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      I did RTFA and WTFV. SE1 (not SEI) isn't the charging signal, it's a USB data line state (an invalid one that goes against the USB spec). A short across the data lines (without connecting them to any explicit voltage) is what indicates a charger according to the USB Battery Charging spec. Now, SE1 could have well been the magic "charger" indication, but it isn't what was chosen for the USB spec.

      Apple chargers use the data lines in non-standard ways (pulled to a voltage using resistors), but shorting them together is the standard way to make a USB charger and, as it turns out, Apple devices (at least recent ones) do understand this and properly charge from such a charger.

      It's worth noting that it is impossible to place a USB bus into the SE1 state without resistors. SE1 means both data lines are at 3.3V (at least for full-speed and low-speed USB), which is not the 5V voltage that you have available on a charger, so if you in fact want to put a bus into SE1 state, you'd need resistors anyway. The charging spec is even simpler, it relies on the device detecting a short across the data lines and the charger doesn't have to provide any specific voltage.

    3. Re:Apple is doing the right thing here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question of testing shorted data lines was asked, and the answer (http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16721#p84189) was:

      [quote]apple did not stick to the usb battery charging spec - hence all the messages on all the sites stating their old chargers do not work with the latest iphones, ours however does and it can be updated if needed if and when apple changes the way they charge, again.[/quote]

    4. Re:Apple is doing the right thing here by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

      Knowing that other manufacturers may dream up their own way of detecting a wall-wart, I'm guessing non-iPhones are either going to have to figure out a sane data resistance or be SOL for the next MintyBoost.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
    5. Re:Apple is doing the right thing here by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      Older devices probably don't support it (the spec is quite recent after all). At least the iPhone 3G does, and quite likely newer devices too. I don't know about the 2G. Older iPods probably won't work.

      As for the current, I measured mine at 500mA in this mode, which is consistent with the minimum requirement for a dedicated charger. I guess the iPhone makes no attempt to draw more unless it detects the specific resistors.

      Now, of course, Apple hasn't publicly stated that their devices are compatible with USB spec chargers, so nothing's guaranteed. Personally, though, I'd just build in a switch for USB spec vs. dedicated resistor modes into a charger. That should make it pretty universal.

      Keep in mind that I'm not advocating going with the spec, as it obviously won't work with older devices. All I'm saying is that there's a reason for the resistors, and this reason prompted an official spec which Apple do comply with in newer devices. i.e. this isn't a story about lock-in, it's about the evolution of USB charging standards. Unless Apple really did stop supporting the charging spec in newer iPhones (I only have my 3G, so I can't check).

  30. i take it... by hitmark · · Score: 1

    that they are not doing it the usb battery charging way:
    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power

    --
    comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    1. Re:i take it... by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      They are. Short the data lines to an iPhone and it'll go into charging mode, no questions asked, no resistors required, just like the spec says. It seems people just haven't bothered to try it.

    2. Re:i take it... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      and i guess it will draw as much as the port will provide it, up to the spec max of about 1500 mW, right?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    3. Re:i take it... by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      I tested it and it appeared to draw 500mA (that's 2500mW, don't confuse mW and mA), so I guess the standard charger protocol triggers the current-limited charge mode (same as you'd get with a standard host PC). This makes sense given it's the minimum requirement of the spec.

    4. Re:i take it... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      yep, a slip of the mind there as the number was correct but ended up replacing the A with a W.

      so you shorted the data connectors with the required resistor, and got a iphone drawing 500mA? In other words, apple is doing its own thing, as expected?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  31. Too long, didn't watch. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How about some sort of web page with a description, instead of having to sit through a tedious video?

    1. Re:Too long, didn't watch. by BenFenner · · Score: 1

      Try reading 7 or 8 words into the summary and you might find a link to such greatness.

    2. Re:Too long, didn't watch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about some sort of web page with a description, instead of having to sit through a tedious video?

      You mean like the second link the summary?

    3. Re:Too long, didn't watch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, like the second link in TFA?

    4. Re:Too long, didn't watch. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Which has got a video, then a big screed of ads, and finally an article well below the fold - by which point, I've lost interest.

      Why do people seem to be really fired up with enthusiasm for driving traffic away from their sites with annoying flashy shit?

  32. Lady Ada FTW by dawning · · Score: 1

    I've been trying to deal with this EXACT issue for awhile now.. Thank goodness she had the radness to put up a great video about it. THIS is full of 'win'.

    PS - geek girls are awesome. Lady Ada and Jeri Ellsworth are my idols. Throw down a little Sarah McLachlan & my gf and my world's complete.

    Geeks are also awesome regardless of gender. Though I prefer the lack of a male ego, it's annoying to navigate.

    1. Re:Lady Ada FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gender has nothing to do with this article. give up the activism already. she's not special because she's female.

      I happen to prefer the lack of female emotional insecurity. that whole feminine feelings > facts attitude breeds all kinds of drama.

  33. theres no way to draw 1amp out of a AAA battery? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    I thought this girl was supposed to know what she was talking about? Take a large gauge, solid core wire and connect the positive and negative terminals directly. You'll get a lot more than 1amp. Of course, the battery will probably melt. Maybe it's not safe to draw 1amp, but it's certainly possible.

  34. Re:usb standard chargers in china (and europe etc) by Anynomous+Coward · · Score: 1

    A prom-miss, is that what I think it is ?

    --
    I'm not a coward by any name.
  35. Re:usb standard chargers in china (and europe etc) by bpbond · · Score: 1

    So is Apple breaking it's prommisses?

    Now we know what username Gollum posts under.

    --
    "Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible" -Jacob Bronowski
  36. Re:Stupid chargers by illumin8 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Is there a practical reason that the iPhone / iPod cannot be recharged and / or synced via a simple USB mico connector interface?

    Yes... Profit!

    No, actually, if you RTFA, the iPhone has 2 charging modes - one uses 500ma, which is the upper-limit of a standard USB port, and a quick-charging mode which uses 1000ma. The iPhone needs to do a power negotiation to determine if the port is capable of providing 1000ma of power. This requires some signaling.

    So, in an effort to provide a superior product that can charge twice as fast from a wall charger, but won't fry your computer by drawing too much power from it's computer port, Apple put some logic in the iPhone and some corresponding resistors in their charger.

    Or, naw, you're right, Apple just wants to charge everyone for everything...

    --
    "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
  37. Re:Stupid chargers by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 1

    I'd rather be able to charge things with standard USB ports, cables, backup batteries, etc, as they were intended, than charge with Apple-approved chargers 2x as fast.

  38. Re:theres no way to draw 1amp out of a AAA battery by iammani · · Score: 1

    I suppose that was subtle attempt at humor. Anyway, the device used 4 batteries in parallel to generate 5 V and .5 amps. If you connected them in serial you will get more current, but cannot generate 5 volts.

  39. Re:Stupid chargers by amRadioHed · · Score: 5, Informative

    Funny, my Android phone does the same exact thing and it uses a standard USB micro interface. You need a special plug to get the full 1000ma charging, but it can use regular plugs too and charge at 500ma without frying anything.

    --
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  40. Re:Spon6e by tophermeyer · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    the project to And shE ran while the project come Here but now

    I probably shouldn't be feeding the trolls, but I'm really confused by posts like these....

    Is this poster seriously trying to get someone to click that link? Or is this a tongue-in-cheek amateurish attempt? In the context of some discussions I could see how this could be funny, but I really don't get how it might apply here. It's not even like he's trying to get me to buy something. He apparently just wants me to click on that link and get fired/dumped/suffer PTSD. Seems really spiteful.

  41. Re:Stupid chargers by illumin8 · · Score: 0, Troll

    I'd rather be able to charge things with standard USB ports, cables, backup batteries, etc, as they were intended, than charge with Apple-approved chargers 2x as fast.

    That sounds nice until you consider that it takes almost 8 hours to fully charge an iPad over a USB port. I'd rather plug it in for 5 hours to the Apple charger than wait so long.

    --
    "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
  42. Re:Stupid chargers by Rasperin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If that was the case and it wasn't for profit, why would they require a secret contract? I get why the resistors were initially added but I'm not understanding why it needs to be a trade secret.

    --
    WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
  43. Re:Stupid chargers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, next their going to tell me I can't replace the battery either.

  44. Re:Stupid chargers by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 1

    You don't need a special connector for that. You can have a "special" plug but use a regular one for everything else. I have a charger which has a normal miniUSB output and an apple output, yet somehow it magically can do both without frying them. Imagine that!

  45. Re:Stupid chargers by shentino · · Score: 1

    To make sure that cheap chargers don't compete with Apple's commissions.

  46. Ok, so I ask the same question as above... by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    ... so why did they need to impose NDA's on everyone who makes these things? Yes, I understand there's a technical reason to build them this way, but why all the secrecy about it? It's hard to imagine any answer other than "we want to make more profit on cables by limiting competition".

    1. Re:Ok, so I ask the same question as above... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Yep. Owner of iPhone 3 (the older one). Bought a $5 cable to hook it up to composite inputs (TV). Cable works for about 3 seconds, then gives some stupid error message (not exactly "Pay us $45 to make this work" but I interpreted it that way). Fuck Apple. When my contract ends, I'm moving to Android quickly.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    2. Re:Ok, so I ask the same question as above... by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, the NDA is for devices that talk to their 30-pin accessory connector, including component cables, which do have crypto auth and you need to purchase auth chips from Apple (and yes, Apple deserves all kinds of bashing for that one).

      I'm not aware of any NDAs required to make a USB compliant charger; all you need to do is visit the USB-IF website and download the USB charging standard spec, which Apple devices are compatible with. Before the charging spec, they didn't publish the resistor stuff, but it's not like it was a trade secret. Most likely they just didn't feel like documenting it. Sure, they could've tried to have it made into a standard, and that would've been a Nice Thing, but I don't think we can say they were deliberately preventing third parties from making compatible chargers just because they didn't publicly publish a few resistor values. "Reverse engineering" minor proprietary extensions like this is part of the day-to-day job of a third party accessory maker, and all USB chargers prior to the spec were outside the standard anyway; Apple just chose to do it a different (safer, saner) way from most other manufacturers.

  47. Legal abuse? by Doorjam · · Score: 0

    A couple of resistors and Apple thinks they can sue anyone that makes a knockoff. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2010-07-29-appleknockoff29_ST_N.htm This needs to be resolved in court so Apple can be forced to pull their heads out of their a-pods.

  48. Re:Stupid chargers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you understood what was happening, you would know Apple could easily fall back to 500mA if it doesn't get the 1A signal. But no, they'd rather not let the device charge at all and display a pathetic message. It's all about money, and that's why they're changing the targets with each model.

  49. Re:theres no way to draw 1amp out of a AAA battery by EkriirkE · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is today bizzarro day?

    --
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  50. Re:Stupid chargers by pclminion · · Score: 1

    If that was the case and it wasn't for profit, why would they require a secret contract? I get why the resistors were initially added but I'm not understanding why it needs to be a trade secret.

    Who the hell knows, and I'm sure Apple doesn't know either. An NDA is like a handshake these days -- you don't do real business without it. You don't ask yourself whether you should have this guy sign an NDA, you ask yourself if there's any pressing reason NOT to sign one. Don't look too hard to find some specific motivation behind it, because chances are there isn't one.

  51. Re:Stupid chargers by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    Right, that would explain why some form of signal is needed and even why they might want to introduce new voltages to indicate new levels of charge avilability but making chargers that work fine with the older iphones not work with the latest model smalls like a pure money grab to me.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  52. Re:Stupid chargers by asdf7890 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But there is nothing to stop them just drawing the 500mA if the right sort of charger is not detected. Refusing to charge at all unless the licensed parts are present is pure market control, nothing else.

  53. Re:Stupid chargers by Khyber · · Score: 1

    That sounds nice until you realize that rapid charging of li-ion batteries heats the battery and significantly kills battery life.

    Again, the motive seems to be profit.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  54. Re:theres no way to draw 1amp out of a AAA battery by Auntie+Virus · · Score: 1

    RTFA FFS! Her device uses 2 batteries (2.4-3v depending on chemistry) a chip and inductor etc to generate 5v to charge apple devices. She needs to convince the device to draw 500ma not 1A. On top of that, the method that worked on iPods stopped working on the iPhone 3Gs, so she needed to determine what resistor values (voltages) were required to convince the iPhone to charge, and draw 500ma.

    --
    Why yes, I *AM* new here. Why?
  55. Re:Stupid chargers by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    Is there a practical reason that the iPhone / iPod cannot be recharged and / or synced via a simple USB mico connector interface?

    Yes... Profit!

    I don't know... I mean, absolutely profit but maybe not as direct as shit like licensing specific charges. The proprietary connector has amazingly and surprisingly lead to a bajillion or so products that are specifically indicated to plug iPods into.

    When you have shelves lined with products all with that specific connector, many people will feel compelled into believing that iPods are the only way to go... and they are! They've become de facto, the name "iPod" has replaced "mp3 player" in many peoples' lexicon.

    There's definitely alternatives, many of which are much more impressive than Apple anything, but Apple has tight, if softly padded, grip on the marketplace and out culture.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  56. Re:Stupid chargers by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    To make sure that cheap chargers don't compete with Apple's commissions.

    Or break their products. Oh, wait...

    Either way, that should be left up to the customer to decide with fair admonishment from Apple.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  57. Reverse Engineering ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is considered reverse engineering now ? The only knowledge required to understand what is going on is Ohms Law ..

  58. Re:Stupid chargers by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    Yeah, next their going to tell me I can't replace the battery either.

    You can't because there is no battery. All Apple products are powered by a special state of mind that occurs when someone abandons any voluntary will and tune themselves to the control rays emanating from Steve Jobs himself.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  59. Re:Stupid chargers by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    The iPhone needs to do a power negotiation...

    Yeah, I suppose passing data over a regular USB port would be a bit much to ask :-)

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  60. Soddering iron by franz · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Why is it that Americans pronounce the word "solder" as if it were spelled "sodder"?

    1. Re:Soddering iron by Megane · · Score: 1

      Why is it that the British don't pronounce the "u" in "colour"?

      --
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    2. Re:Soddering iron by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Why is it that Americans pronounce the word "solder" as if it were spelled "sodder"?

      It's so they can make up jokes involving a camp circuit board saying "solder me? you dirty bastard!"

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  61. Re:Stupid chargers by Ecuador · · Score: 3, Informative

    You got modded insightful?
    My N900 charges via a USB cable. It charges at 1200mA with the fast Nokia charger, at 500mA with the slow Nokia charger or PC USB port and at what appears around 300mA with a $2 Chinese car charger.
    And they certainly don't charge third parties to provide them with secret recipes on how to make the chargers work.
    Or naw... you are right, Apple never does anything wrong, just uncool people complaining about everything...

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  62. Re:Stupid chargers by The+Spoonman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it takes almost 8 hours [appadvice.com] to fully charge an iPad over a USB port. I'd rather plug it in for 5 hours to the Apple charger than wait so long

    Hmmmm...why would you be waiting? Why wouldn't you just go to sleep? :)

    --
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  63. AA Batteries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The author is very mistaken in their belief that AA and AAA batteries cannot deliver 1 ampere. NiMH and lithium batteries can provide several amperes of current.

  64. Re:Stupid chargers by wickedskaman · · Score: 1

    For everyone replying to this post... Apple is a for-profit company. If you don't like HOW they make those profits please feel free to vote with your wallet and buy a competing product instead of theirs. Isn't it as simple as that?

    Cue devil's advocate explaining why it can't be as simple as that, ad nauseam...

    --
    Sand's overrated... it's just tiny little rocks.
  65. Re:Stupid chargers by xenapan · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry. if standard 500 mA charge is 8 nearly hours and 1000mA is suppoed to be twice as fast, shouldn't it charge in under 4 hours and not 5? Thats not quite even a third faster and the faster charge speed also kills your battery life in the long run. I'd wait 8.

    --
    insert funny sig here
  66. Re:Stupid chargers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, I don't want the Slashdot stories next week being about how charging your iPhone with some random cheap Chinese charger causing a house fire, or car fire. You can't just magically conjure 500mA out of every charger, it has to be designed to deliver the amps without overheating. You can complain that Apple should design a charging circuit that will charge a LiPoly battery with only 100mA, but the smug hipsters would whine that their phone takes too long to charge.

  67. Dirty Apple tricks w MacBook chargers.... by gd23ka · · Score: 1

    It would seem that Apple's AC chargers for MacBooks have a serial prom or similar with a serial
    number:

    AC Charger Information:

        Connected: Yes
        ID: 0x0100
        Wattage (W): 85
        Revision: 0x0001
        Family: 0x00ad
        Serial Number: 0x00b2fce8
        Charging: yes

    1. Re:Dirty Apple tricks w MacBook chargers.... by VoltageX · · Score: 1

      This is probably to allow some smarts on both sides - IIRC the 85W charger is the Macbook Pro charger, but it can also work with the standard Macbook.

      --
      "Anonymous could not immediately be reached for further comment." - International Business Times
  68. I dislike governmental involvement.. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    But, perhaps the FCC should ban nonsense like this.

    Open up the connection details, and perhaps even enforcea 'standard' so we don't have 15 kinds of connectors when all they really do is charge and send data back and forth.. I mean come on, does everyone really need their own damned custom connector? Why cant regular USB connectors work for everyone when they are USB on the other end anyway?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:I dislike governmental involvement.. by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Communist! Pinko! Heretic! Burn the pinko Communist heretic!

      There got that out of the system.
      USB connectors for pretty much anything that might want both power and data? You mean like the way the the EU has (allegedly - I should check because I'm likely to be in the market for a new phone soon) mandated that phones sold in Europe after a certain date should at a minimum charge through a standard micro-USB socket.
      I should check - but I'm going to do it the easy way : go to my phone shop and ask them. I can't say that I'm interested in perpetuating the connector wars, and I'm quite willing to wait. Let's see who breaks first - Nokia, the corporation, or Nokia, the phone at home?
      (Hmmm, allegedly the standard is being proposed by the ITU. Equally allegdly, the switch-over is expected RSN. Oh well, if I can be bothered to look at new phones, or if I need to, I'll ask.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    2. Re:I dislike governmental involvement.. by Megane · · Score: 1

      Except that the FCC has no power (har har) over this matter. They exist to regulate telecommunications, such as radio frequency broadcasts and the telephone system. The only thing they have any control over in such a device is to ensure that it doesn't have excessive RFI emissions.

      --
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    3. Re:I dislike governmental involvement.. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      I do realize they don't have control over it directly, but i'm sure some creative guy could stretch the rules.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  69. Sometimes it's criminal to use standard connectors by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Proprietary connectors are NOT "clever", they're generally asinine and should be considered criminal unless a DAMNED fine case can be made each time.

    Sometimes it's (literally) criminal to use standard connectors. Example: Antenna connectors of type-approved devices (WiFi, cellphone, etc.). The radio regulatory bodies of a number of countries required the manufacturers to use proprietary connectors (and not sell them generally) to make it difficult for users to attach high-gain directional antennas or external signal boosters that might make the device exceed the country's emitted signal levels. (Of course the manufacturers had a financial disincentive to build models with standard connectors for other markets. So things were hard for modders until the inevitable marketing of mating connectors by third parties.)

    Of course that isn't the situation with Apple's charging system. But just thought I'd mention it in case anybody was fuming about a radio device.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  70. Re:Stupid chargers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The USB spec, maybe? You need to negotiate that kind of power. Otherwise you could bring down the bus. You cannot assume you are connected to a dumb charger- it could be a slow or non-responsive computer.

  71. Could have done it without removing resistors. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There was a way to do this that didn't involve unsoldering and measuring the resistors.

    Tests with an ohmmeter and visual inspection had already shown that the charger tied each D line to an independent voltage divider across the supplied voltage. This produces the (Thevenin) equivalent of:
      - a voltage source at the same ratio to the supply voltage that the lower resistor's value has to the sum of the resistors' values,
      - in series with a(n equivalent series) resistance equal to that of the two resistors in parallel.

    Measuring the supply voltage and the unloaded voltage on a D line gives the resistor value ratio. You can measure the parallel equivalent resistance by either of two methods:
      - Shut down the supply, short + and -, and measure the resistance from the D line to the shorted supply.
      - Load the D line with a resistor to ground of known value that pulls the voltage down appreciably. (In the ballpark of cutting it in half is ideal.) Measure the amount it droops (and recheck the power supply voltage in case you pulled that down a bit, too.) This presumes the pullup resistor can handle 2x the normal current and 4x the normal power dissipation, for the duration of the test.

    With those two measurements you can calculate the resistor values. If they fall near standard values it provides a sanity check on your calculations and measurements. You only have to pull 'em off if there's an additional "black box" component hooked to the D lines that might foul up your measurements.

    (Of course if you already have the tools handy, pulling off and measuring the resistors may be easier. It also lets you check that there wasn't something else hidden in the circuit that you missed.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  72. Re:Stupid chargers by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Funny

    This cannot be! Apple is about supplying the best customer experience, about rolling out magical devices to the masses to free them from the bondage and slavery of technology as imposed by those proprietary, secretive for-profit companies!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  73. Re:Stupid chargers by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

    "So, in an effort to provide a superior product that can charge twice as fast from a wall charger, but won't fry your computer by drawing too much power from it's computer port, Apple put some logic in the iPhone and some corresponding resistors in their charger."

    My Kindle has this handy cord (just one!) that is both a 110v charger (no apparent transformer) and, with the removal of a rather small adapter cap, a USB charger. The charge rates differ dramatically between the two connections. I received a full charge in the time it took to download a book--plugged it in, started download, battery charged, download finished--elapsed time, less then 5 minutes. It took about 15 minutes via USB.

    I suspect the removable end-cap has not only jumpers, but similar circuitry as discussed in TFA.

    While "Profit!" may have something to do with it, I am perfectly willing to fork over some "Profit!" for the extreme convenience of being able to charge my Kindle pretty much anywhere. All I need now is a solar-cell cover for it.

  74. Re:Stupid chargers by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    Something my Ipaq 312 has been doing for years before the iphone appeared is a mac innovation eh? It uses exactly the same resistor + logic method to protect USB ports.

    But it can still pull 500ma from a PC.

    And guess what, I can use my 312 like an external drive and drag and drop.

    Not superior at all reallly-except in the fanboy mind.

  75. Red and green apples. by tru3ntropy · · Score: 1

    " If you don't put these secret resistors on the data lines too, you get the dreaded Charging is not supported with this accessory" Ive got one of those official Apple iPod Hi-Fi docks and i still get this with my ipod touch.

    --
    In Google we trust.
    1. Re:Red and green apples. by jenik · · Score: 1

      replying to undo moderation.

  76. Re:Stupid chargers by exomondo · · Score: 1

    So, in an effort to provide a superior product that can charge twice as fast from a wall charger, but won't fry your computer by drawing too much power from it's computer port, Apple put some logic in the iPhone and some corresponding resistors in their charger.

    Or, naw, you're right, Apple just wants to charge everyone for everything...

    But that's part of the micro-usb standard.

  77. Re:Stupid chargers by minniger · · Score: 1

    Actually I think a big thing everyone misses is that the apple dock connector is often used to support the device. You can drop anything from an iphone4 to a little itty bitty shuffle into a third party cradle and they all are held up just fine.

    So it seems pretty clear it's not just a matter fo charge times, or that mini USB sucks, rather a combo of factors that are best solved by using the dock connector.

    Seriously, is all this fuss really needed? The USB to dock cable comes with the device and additional ones are cheap... If you don't like it buy something else and have fun.

    Geez.

  78. Re:Stupid chargers by mjwx · · Score: 2, Informative

    Funny, my Android phone does the same exact thing and it uses a standard USB micro interface. You need a special plug to get the full 1000ma charging, but it can use regular plugs too and charge at 500ma without frying anything.

    Same with Nokia...

    or any other phone that uses the standard USB Spec for charging.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  79. Re:theres no way to draw 1amp out of a AAA battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    parallel, not series. in series, you'd get 6v with the current sourcing capacity of one battery. in parallel, you'd get 1.5v with the current sourcing ability of 4 batteries.

  80. Re:Stupid chargers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    An Apple NDA isn't quite the same thing as other companies' NDAs (posting anonymously, because I can't legally tell you that).

  81. Re:Stupid chargers by deniable · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple doesn't follow standards, they set them. Following standards is for open, cooperative people, like Microsoft.

  82. For the trolls asking "why not just use USB?" by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    See:
    http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_connector#Apple_30_pin_dock_connector

    In addition to USB signals, the dock connector provides, Left/Right Line in/out, Control signals to/from accessories like radio clocks, Video out, S-Video Luminance, S-Video Chrominance output, VGA out and it also used to provide firewire data signals on older iPod models.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  83. Multiple pullups ? by Builder · · Score: 1

    The article talks about pullups and pulldowns all the time. I've read the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pull-up_resistor, but I still don't quite get what this means in the context...

    What do they mean by "Hmm, Looks like we need to have two pull ups after all. We made a new version that now had either a pulldown or pullup on the D+ line"

  84. Re:Stupid chargers by Builder · · Score: 1

    It's not just apple ... My Sony PRS-505 ebook reader will only charge via USB when plugged into a computer. Other USB chargers that charge all of my other USB devices won't charge it at all.

  85. Re:Stupid chargers by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

    I'm fairly certain that within each 24 hour rotation there's an approximately 8 hour long block where you are not using your iPad

    --
    If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
  86. Re:Stupid chargers by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

    No. You always assume you are connected to a USB port of a computer. That is how you do things. Apple decided not to and went for not allowing unlicensed stuff. That just adds more proof to claims that they are control freaks.

  87. Re:Stupid chargers by milkmage · · Score: 2, Informative

    refusing to charge or just SAYING it's not charging?

    i have a USB hub (unpowered) that works fine for syncing. last night I got the "I'm not charging message", but the next AM, it was charged (up from about 75% or so)..

    people who get "official" apple chargers are the same crowd who buys Monster cables. fuck'em

  88. Re:Stupid chargers by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

    What if you only sleep 5 hours a night? I do. Granted, I don't have any Apple products, but still...

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  89. Re:Stupid chargers by godefroi · · Score: 1

    HTC devices have the same two charging modes... and they charge on any USB-shaped plug that provides 5v.

    Again, there is no VALID reason that Apple cannot do the same thing. They're profiteering, just like Tandy was.

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  90. Re:Stupid chargers by godefroi · · Score: 1

    Wrong. HTC devices charge in slow-mode on any normal USB interface (charger or computer) but charge in fast-mode on their special chargers (over a normal USB cable).

    --
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  91. Interstate commerce by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Being as all these portable devices are part of interstate trade and an integral part of our lives, the federal government does have jurisdiction. Just like they can mandate how wide interstate roads are, or that we all use the same parameters on the power grid. One company cant decide to run 75hz at 190v for fun.

    No, they don't need to go further then just mandating interoperability...

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  92. Re:Stupid chargers by mjwx · · Score: 1

    Wrong.

    Wrong again.

    I have two HTC Phones, they will charge at the same speed no matter what charger is plugged in. They shipped a standard USB charger with the Dream and Legend (Micro-USB) I've been able to use Belkin USB wall chargers with no drop in charging speed. The old ExtUSB on the Dream and Magic was for audio only, HTC has since abandoned this idea.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  93. Dell PSU Still Non-ATX? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If my memories were correct, Dell's now using standard ATX pinouts, since it has switched to P4(long time ago). Optiplex GX 270 is a P4 machine so I think you're fine with a 3rd party off-the-shelf PSUs(if you could find one that fits to that formfactor).

  94. Ravishing looks... ? Fine looks, GREAT rack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    O.k., I checked out that link, yes she's smart, but it seems to me that "ravishing looks" is a slight exaggeration. She's definitely attractive, but what really stands out is not her super-great looks, but rather her prominently carried, very voluminous breasts. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

  95. Re:Stupid chargers by godefroi · · Score: 1

    I have 3 HTC phones (Apache, Kaiser, Rhodium), and while the Apache (which has only the normal Mini-USB and charges at the same rate regardless of charger) and the Kaiser (which has ExtUSB and charges at the same rate regardless of charger), the Rhodium (which has the ExtUSB port) charges faster on the wall charger than it does from a computer. Even with a normal Mini-USB cable on the wall charger, it charges faster. I've read somewhere that the wall charger puts out a slightly higher voltage to signal the phone that it can deliver higher current, but I don't know whether that's true or whether it's something else going on.

    Regardless, Apple is only in this for the money. There's no technological reason it can't be done.

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  96. Iapd fix for non-apple wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tried this on my iphone and my ipad to fix my wires not working issue. Worked without issue.

    http://www.huanix.com/2009/06/20/iphone-2g-3g-fix-this-accessory-is-not-made-to-work-with-iphone/

  97. Re:usb standard chargers in china (and europe etc) by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

    The legal and marketing geniuses* at Apple probably will construe that to mean, "we'll start thinking about developing the iPhone 5 with a micro-USB socket in 2010."

    * Tongue in cheek...

    --
    "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."