2011, Year of the Tablet?

frontwave writes "After the huge success of the iPad, with over 4 million units sold since its introduction, all major hardware vendors of PCs and mobile devices are coming out with new tablets in the next few months, including Apple with a smaller version of the popular product. Analysts estimate the market for tablet devices (over 6" screen size) to be around 25 million units for 2011."

Comments

Heh

[anomnomnomymous]

Including Apple with a smaller version of the popular product.

And let me guess; You can also call with this one?

Re:Heh

[TheKidWho]

I make phone calls all the time on my iPad via Skype...

Re:Heh

[Albanach]

I make phone calls all the time on my iPad via Skype...

Hey, I can't see you. Is your camera turned on?

Re:Heh

[shoehornjob]

Including Apple with a smaller version of the popular product.

Umm, am I missing something? A smaller version of the Ipad is the Ipod touch. Apparently Steve thinks he hasn't saturated the market enough yet. design a cool product hype hype hype spin (iphone 4) Profit Yay mass marketing

Re:Heh

[TheKidWho]

Apparently you don't seem to understand what a phone call is.

të largohen nga ky vend

Re:Heh

[BlueKitties]

Calling the iPod a smaller version of the iPad is like calling a flip phone a small netbook, or calling a Nook a small TV. Try actually spending time with a device before making comparisons. They are similar in many ways, but the usability difference is a sharp contrast.

Re:Heh

[BrokenHalo]

Calling the iPod a smaller version of the iPad is like calling a flip phone a small netbook...

Not really. The iPod Touch and the iPad have more similarities than differences, and there's little point in discussing usability, since that is entirely at the mercy of Apple.

The iPad looks very attractive, but it is essentially (like that manufacturer's other handheld products) just a media box. From my point of view, Apple has missed the boat. I would have welcomed an iPad that ran OS X with the bells that come with it, most particularly the *nix shell of my choice (zsh if anyone cares).

In other words, what I really is a tablet computer, not just a locked-in box that dishes up any trinkets and baubles that Apple cares to sell me.

Re:Heh

[Americano]

From my point of view, Apple has missed the boat.

Which boat is that, exactly? The boat that Microsoft is on with their super-profitable tablet business?

The boat with all the Android-based iPad work-alikes? Yeah, it would be great if the iPad worked like an Android clone of the iPad.

ot just a locked-in box that dishes up any trinkets and baubles that Apple cares to sell me.

Man, you'd be soooo pissed to see me learning new guitar chords, reading books, responding to email, watching Netflix movies, talking with family & friends over Skype, taking pictures & video, editing video, uploading it, writing a new version of my resume, and all of that stuff with my iPad and iPhone. I guess I missed the memo that the iOS devices are only suitable for mindlessly purchasing stuff from the Apple "walled garden".

Re:Heh

[BlueKitties]

The difference could also be compared to Windows Mobile and a desktop running Win7. Yes, Windows Mobile looks similar to desktop Windows, complete with a start bar, but it's nearly impossible to imagine writing a book in Windows Mobile. From the small buttons that are hard to hit, to the tiny screen, the entire experience just "doesn't fit" with certain tasks. Likewise, iPods and iPads have similarities, but the difference is just as drastic between WinMobile5 and Win7.

Re:Heh

[Kielistic]

Just as drastic other than the fact that ipod touches and ipads run the same operating system, run on the same platform, run mostly the same software and use the same interface.
So other than one being large and one being small what exactly is this drastic difference?

Re:Heh

[catmistake]

From my point of view, Apple has missed the boat. I would have welcomed an iPad that ran OS X with the bells that come with it, most particularly the *nix shell of my choice (zsh if anyone cares)

I thought the exact same thing. But I thought I'd give it 10 days of a trial before returning it and sticking it to Apple. You'd be surprised. Just try getting it away from me now. I never really use my laptop anymore... well, not directly. I use it now mostly as a media server. Want zsh? There's oodles of ssh apps that will allow you to connect to your Linux server to satisfy your shell tooth.

In other words, what I really is a tablet computer, not just a locked-in box that dishes up any trinkets and baubles that Apple cares to sell me.

Not so much. What you really is closed minded, like I used be.

Re:Heh

[shoehornjob]

I call bullshit. I have both and while there are some apps that don't translate from Ipad to Ipod touch the UI is the same, the app store is the same, the settings are mostly the same. Name a significan difference between the two. I can Skype on both, I can watch Utube on both, I can surf the web on both. Aside from screen size how is the Ipad significantly different from the Ipod touch (and yess I did say touch not the old school Ipod. Bullshit.

Re:Heh

[hairyfeet]

While I'm sure there are a few geeks like you that can figure out a way to do something constructive with it, the reason I've seen for the crazy sales of iPhone 4 (even after all the phone problems) and iPad living by a college is explained in this video. Sadly talking to many of the college kids I had almost that exact same conversation. Hell my 67 year old dad is talking about getting an iPhone 4. when I pointed out he can't even figure out how to text with his Samsung and got him to admit what made the iPhone 4 so appealing to him, it was the other contractors have it and he doesn't want to be out of style.

You know, we really should give old Steve Jobs a hell of a lot more credit than we do. While one could argue the success of the early Apple was due to Woz building damned good designs, with the new Apple Jobs took a company that was DOA and thanks to his marketing brilliance made them the "must have" product. Hell even when he puts out a boner like iPhone 4 they sell by the semi load! I swear that man could put a fricking brick in a box and have a million selling hit, give credit where credit is due. Sadly even though the tablets in TFA will probably have nicer hardware, more features, and be cheaper to boot, they will most likely all bomb hard. As we saw with MSFT and first tablets, then HTPCs, then Vista and Zune, what you are selling doesn't matter as much as how you sell it and that seems to be something these companies don't get, while Steve has built an empire on it. So here's to you Steve, I bet you could sell ice cream to Eskimos.

Re:Heh

[Americano]

While I'm sure there are a few geeks like you that can figure out a way to do something constructive with it

Is my 2 year old nephew a geek? My friend's 7 year old daughter? My 69 year old mother, who was a French teacher? My friend's 38 year old wife, who works for a daycare? The appeal of these devices is that they are easy to use - even if you're not a geek.

I know you like to trot out this ridiculous "people only buy it because it's trendy" meme every time Apple comes up, we've had this same discussion in various forms in other articles. Your father is an anecdote, not a data point. Your youtube link, while cute, is not a study into the purchasing habits of Americans. What you are doing is assuming that you know why people would buy these devices, and then searching out people who confirm that hypothesis for you. If your dad and an internet cartoon is the best you can come up with, well... try harder.

The funny thing is, I bet your 67 year old technically backwards dad could figure out how to send or respond to a text message *really quickly* on an iPhone. Your argument reads like this: "Dad, you can't figure out how to text on a shitty device with 9 buttons. How are you going to figure out how to text on a device with a full keyboard and well-designed app for texting?" This is a ludicrous position to take.

Hell even when he puts out a boner like iPhone 4 they sell by the semi load!

A boner like the iPhone 4? What exactly was wrong with it that makes it so terrible a design again? You're referring to the antenna, right? Pray tell, how many people do you know who would buy (and keep) a phone which does not work? I'd put that number at, oh... zero. So this leads me to conclude that the antenna problem is either: very rare, and the people who had the issue have returned the phone and found a phone they like better; or the impact isn't as much as all the purple prose led us to believe here, and on other tech sites.

what you are selling doesn't matter as much as how you sell it

More like, what you are selling matters quite a bit, and Apple has been the best at figuring out what it is that *people are willing to pay for* in recent years. I've raised this point previously, and nobody's ever been able to explain it.

If Apple's business model is - as you've implied - solely based on gulling idiots into purchasing products that don't work, how do you explain:
1) Their *very* high customer satisfaction ratings;
2) The fact that many people continue buying additional devices after they purchase the first;

You can't explain those to facts with the whole "they just hoodwink the sheeple into buying a bunch of crap that doesn't work," argument. Clearly the devices DO work, and clearly people are generally VERY pleased with them. So please, do explain how you reconcile this with your world view?

Re:Heh

[BlueKitties]

Your "list" boils down to: they're "based" on the same OS, and the iPad is "compatible" with iPod apps. The size increase has a two fold impact: first, the screen is "also" the UI. While the iPod is best operated with your thumbs (and maybe one of your index fingers) the iPad lets you use all of your fingers at once. Second, the screen real-estate lets developers put a lot more on screen, which opens the doors to entirely different UI interactions.

Re:Heh

[BlueKitties]

Also, if you just sit down with one for over an hour, you'll see what I mean. Try taking a tiny pocket knife and comparing it to a machete. Yes, they're both shaped the same and cut stuff, but trying to hack down vines and brush with a pocket knife is idiotic. Likewise, an iPod might "be able" to do what an iPad can, it's simply impractical, painful, and unintuitive (much like using a machete to slice onions.)

Re:Heh

[Kielistic]

So other than one being large and one being small; the larger being slightly more convenient to use what exactly is this drastic difference?

They are "based" on the same operating system in much the same manner as Windows Ultimate and Windows Professional are "based" on the same operating system. Meaning one has more ticks in the metaphorical "allow" checklist.

You claim that an ipad cannot be classified as a large ipod because of some "drastic difference" but all you list is: "Screen bigger, fit more stuff, fingers not in way".

Allow me to pose it to you this way. The larger form factor of the ipad allows it to be more easily used (this seems to be your only point). Removing this extra size would remove the added benefits of said extra size demoting this hypothetical mini-ipad to the usability region of an ipod. Which was the G*P's point when you stormed in stating they were incomparable and an ipad isn't a large ipod.

Re:Heh

[marcello_dl]

> that man could put a fricking brick in a box and have a million selling hit...

He did, it was called the "iPhone after jailbreaking and firmware update", or the "unsupported ipod model with a linux desktop".

Re:Heh

[larry bagina]

So other than one being large and one being small what exactly is this drastic difference?

what's the difference between a swimming pool and a bath tub?

Re:Heh

[BlueKitties]

Again, small machete versus large machete. Clipping a couple of inches would slightly alter how it's held, while maintaining the ability to use all of your fingers comfortably. Similarly, larger pocket knives are not machetes. You actually need to use a device to see if it's suited for a particular class. Yes, they're incredibly similar, but it's also like a sliding QWERTY versus a desktop keyboard. There's that fine grained line where you go from using your thumbs to using your full hands to type. Likewise, the iPod is more like a "mini touch" device, which changes the experience just as drastically as a sliding QWERTY versus a full sized keyboard.

I can call this my "opinion," but I actually used an iPad for a few days, the experience was DRASTICALLY different than an iPod. And shrinking the iPad slightly would likely maintain the tablet usability. But in all honesty, these things actually exist, try it out for yourself. If you still disagree, then I admit I may be wrong (maybe I'm just nuts? But seriously, first hand experience suggests I'm not.)

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Cute. I actually have zsh on my iPad, though I generally just use bash.

Re:Heh

[Kielistic]

A swimming pool is still a tub by definition, that is exactly my point. If you shrink a swimming pool to the size of a bathtub would you still consider it a swimming pool? You can do things with a large body of water that you cannot do with a small but it is still a body of water.

Re:Heh

[davester666]

Some weird kind of non-visual communication?

I remember seeing a video describing how people used it a lot in the previous century...

Re:Heh

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

It's only a media box if that is all you choose to do with it. The rest of us will find and develop all sorts of uses for the iPad. The iPad is a computer, after all.

Re:Heh

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

when I pointed out he can't even figure out how to text with his Samsung and got him to admit what made the iPhone 4 so appealing to him, it was the other contractors have it and he doesn't want to be out of style.

That's a shame, because the SMS app is quite simple and intuitive, and better than anything else I've seen on a phone. Just because he wanted one to be in style, that doesn't mean he wouldn't have found it be a great phone to use, as well.

I swear that man could put a fricking brick in a box and have a million selling hit, give credit where credit is due.

That explains the success of the G4 Cube.

Re:Heh

[kinnell]

Sadly even though the tablets in TFA will probably have nicer hardware, more features, and be cheaper to boot, they will most likely all bomb hard. As we saw with MSFT and first tablets, then HTPCs, then Vista and Zune, what you are selling doesn't matter as much as how you sell it and that seems to be something these companies don't get, while Steve has built an empire on it.

What you seem to be missing is that nicer hardware, more features and lower price don't necessarily imply a better product.

Re:Heh

[GameboyRMH]

Even if your iOS device were able to match the functionality of an open OS (which it is far from doing), it would still be a locked-in toy that can only run Apple-approved apps. You can't even use an alternate browser or email client, and I don't think you can even use Skype over 3G on the iPhone.

Re:Heh

[tycoex]

I can do all that stuff that you use an ipad for on my phone.

Not to mention my netbook that was half the price can do all that stuff and more.

Re:Heh

[cowscows]

The bigger screen size makes a bigger difference than just having the text be larger. And don't be fooled by the fact that the main screen of both the iPhone and iPad function with the same interface, many apps that are available on both the iphone and ipad present the user with different interfaces depending on which device you use. It's not just a matter of scaling everything up to fit the bigger screen, that extra real estate allows for significant reworking of interfaces.

  If you replaced my desktop computer's 23" monitor with a 12" screen from 20 years ago, I guess I could still do the drafting in AutoCAD that I'm hoping to get done today, but it would be much less efficient, and would require some serious rethinking of my workflow in order to actually get anything done with so much less space.

Re:Heh

[Americano]

Even if your iOS device were able to match the functionality of an open OS (which it is far from doing)

Functionality such as...? Please list all the use cases for an Android phone that cannot be matched by an iPhone?

You can't even use an alternate browser or email client

ibisMail, and tne numerous webkit-based browsers available on the itunes store would beg to differ with you.

I don't think you can even use Skype over 3G on the iPhone.

You could think that, but you'd be wrong - hint: read the part where it says "Use Skype everywhere - over 3G or WiFi!" Remind me again how awesome Skype for Android is? Oh wait, it's only available on Verizon, isn't it? Have you rooted yours yet to install a custom ROM?

Yeah, I can see how your mythical "open" device totally kicks the ass of the iPhone.

Re:Heh

[Americano]

I can do all that stuff that you use an ipad for on my phone.

I can too. Lucky for us, that wasn't the point.

Not to mention my netbook that was half the price can do all that stuff and more.

And lucky for us, that wasn't the point either, though it's worth pointing out that my list was certainly not "exhaustive" either - there's lots of other "... and more" with an iPad, as well. The GP poster specifically said that the iPad was simply a media box - a dumb terminal that plays music & allows you to watch videos.

My point is that you can do significantly more than that, in fact. But don't let the facts stand in the way of a good anti-apple rant.

And I look forward to watching somebody try to bury *this* post as well!

Re:Heh

[Kielistic]

But if you started with a 12", then get a 23" and loving its extra size call it a "super monitor" or anything that may denote its greater functionality. Then you go out and find a 14"; do you call that a monitor or a "mini super monitor"?

If the only different is size, even if that size makes for a different experience, then the only difference is size. Removing the extra size removes the extra functionality. This was the major flaw in what "BlueKitties" had posted. Actually a bigger flaw was claiming that iphone os on ipad and iphone os on ipod are more different than Windows 7 and Windows Mobile 5. That was really what dumbfounded me.

Re:Heh

[GameboyRMH]

I don't have an Android phone, because I don't want Google having the final say over what apps I can have on my phone. Mine runs Maemo 5. It has Skype, Google Voice and a SIP client right out of the box, and is connection-agnostic.

Skype over 3G on the iPhone is free for a trial period, then they start milking you when you make calls over 3G, for no reason.

You can't even use an alternate browser or email client

ibisMail, and tne numerous webkit-based browsers available on the itunes store would beg to differ with you.

I said "alternative browser" not "browser skin pack."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339605,00.asp

I'll concede that there appear to be alternative email clients now.

As for the functionality an open phone such as mine can do that yours can't:

- Run alternative, different, totally separate browsers, with Flash even!

- Install any app from anywhere, even compile and run apps right on the phone.

- Do true multitasking with any app - not just fast app switching

- Drop files straight on the device via any method the phone is technically capable of, just like a laptop, no iTunes needed!

- Install offensive, pornographic or politically controversial games, even if not made by a prominent author who can bitch to the media, or the head of the iPhone app store who sells fart apps and says "no more fart apps."

- Install an app even if there are many others like it already available, or some dude at Apple would consider it useless.

- Install dictionaries with naughty words in them, make my phone say naughty words with speech synthesis, or even voice-dail contacts using naughty words!

- Install a tethering app or hacking tool.

- Be sure that none of these apps will be remote-killed, and none will be remote-installed, ever.

Re:Heh

[Americano]

It has Skype, Google Voice and a SIP client right out of the box, and is connection-agnostic. Skype over 3G on the iPhone is free for a trial period, then they start milking you when you make calls over 3G, for no reason.

I'm sorry, wrong again. Google Voice is also available, as are at least 2 SIP VOIP clients I turned up in a less-than-30 second search. All report that they work over WiFi or 3G.

Would you like to try a third time?

Run alternative, different, totally separate browsers, with Flash even!

I'll grant you flash, but that's not even remotely a concern for me - if it was, I wouldn't have bought an iOS device. I run flashblock in my browsers as a matter of course, and when I see that little flash icon, I am far more likely to simply find another source for what I'm looking for than to enable the flash content.

Install any app from anywhere, even compile and run apps right on the phone.

Compile & run apps on the phone is something you and maybe 5 of your friends would care to do. It's a feature, but one so esoteric as to be irrelevant to the average user. So, half a point in your favor. As far as "any app from anywhere," sure, another half a point in your favor, provided there are categories of apps which have *no representation* on the App Store. I'd suggest that you probably can't find too many apps anywhere for Maemo that have no similar functionality in an app on the App store. But still, point in your favor.

Do true multitasking with any app - not just fast app switching

Not sure what your point is. If I start playing Pandora, I can switch to other apps and use them while listening to pandora. If I am on a skype call, I can swap out to other apps and not lose my call. It's a different way of implementing multitasking (GCD's block concept), but that doesn't make it less effective. Tie.

Drop files straight on the device via any method the phone is technically capable of, just like a laptop, no iTunes needed!

I just use Dropbox and or the iDisk app - the specific use here is "copy a file to the phone", and there are ways to do it for both yours and mine, though methods will vary. Tie.

Install offensive, pornographic or politically controversial games, even if not made by a prominent author who can bitch to the media, or the head of the iPhone app store who sells fart apps and says "no more fart apps."

Special case of "install any app from any source." No points awarded.

Install an app even if there are many others like it already available, or some dude at Apple would consider it useless.

Same as the last - special case. And if you think that there's a lack of app duplication for the iPhone, you've never looked at the App Store. There's plenty of apps that do exactly the same thing as a dozen other apps.

Install dictionaries with naughty words in them, make my phone say naughty words with speech synthesis, or even voice-dail contacts using naughty words!

My dictionary app, installed from the app store, has no problems with giving me definitions for "cunt," "cunt fart," "shit," "fuck," "fuckoff," "fuck around," "motherfucker," and the list goes on. The same dictionary app will pronounce these words for me, as will VoiceOver's speech synthesis. I haven't tried it, but I bet if I named my friend Dan as "Fuck Master" in my address book, and used the Voice Control functionality, it would allow me to dial him by "naughty words," too - "Dial Fuck Master". Tie.

- Install a tethering app or hacking tool.

My phone tethers, the tethering is pretty hard to separa

Re:Heh

[treeves]

much less pee and chlorine in a bathtub.

Re:Heh

[GameboyRMH]

I'm sorry, wrong again [wirefresh.com]. Google Voice is also available, as are at least 2 SIP VOIP clients I turned up in a less-than-30 second search. All report that they work over WiFi or 3G.

I didn't say they weren't. You failed to address that Skype was a trial offer.

I'll grant you flash, but that's not even remotely a concern for me - if it was, I wouldn't have bought an iOS device. I run flashblock in my browsers as a matter of course, and when I see that little flash icon, I am far more likely to simply find another source for what I'm looking for than to enable the flash content.

You failed to address the ability to install different browsers. I use Flashblock too - I made a flashblock plugin for the browser on my phone actually - but a lot of the web uses Flash content, for better or worse, and missing Flash is at least as bad as missing Javascript these days.

Not sure what your point is. If I start playing Pandora, I can switch to other apps and use them while listening to pandora. If I am on a skype call, I can swap out to other apps and not lose my call. It's a different way of implementing multitasking (GCD's block concept), but that doesn't make it less effective. Tie.

My point is true multitasking, and not just for special cases, has many uses. I can queue up music on Youtube from within the browser and play it while I surf on another page. I can leave a file copying to a Samba share while I play a game. If I want to use an alternate music player, that can play in the background too without any special corporate blessings.

Special case of "install any app from any source." No points awarded.

Yeah I guess it is another form of censorship.

Same as the last - special case. And if you think that there's a lack of app duplication for the iPhone, you've never looked at the App Store. There's plenty of apps that do exactly the same thing as a dozen other apps.

What if the dozen-and-oneth app is the one I want to use? Guess I'd just have to settle.

My dictionary app, installed from the app store, has no problems with giving me definitions for "cunt," "cunt fart," "shit," "fuck," "fuckoff," "fuck around," "motherfucker," and the list goes on. The same dictionary app will pronounce these words for me, as will VoiceOver's speech synthesis. I haven't tried it, but I bet if I named my friend Dan as "Fuck Master" in my address book, and used the Voice Control functionality, it would allow me to dial him by "naughty words," too - "Dial Fuck Master". Tie.

Do try the "Dial Fuck Master" trick, from my research you might be surprised. I'm glad you got a dictionary with curse words in it because others bearing curse words haven't been so fortunate.

My phone tethers, the tethering is pretty hard to separate from the carrier, as you may have guessed, so ATT certainly can restrict it, but that doesn't mean I can't tether. As far as a "hacking tool," I'm not sure what you mean, so I can't really suggest whether or not those tools exist in the app store. Tie on tethering, no points awarded on hacking tools.

Aww limited tethering capability, how cute. Hacking tools means things like nmap and the aircrack suite, and hey, maybe a jailbreak tool.

Now, as far as Maemo 5 goes, I looked it up, and the UI looks like shit from the screenshots I saw. So there's +1 for iOS.

The OS equivalent of "Yeah...well...your face is ugly!"

All in all, it's pretty closely tied, not quite the "locked down piece of useless garbage" you imagine it to be based on the FUD you've either swallowed, or are trying to propagate.

Closely tied like a Nissan GTR is closely tied to a Viper. The GTR can do all the same things...mostly...under the right conditions...once you have permission. Not useless but not a serious replacement for something you have control over without extensive modifications.

Re:Heh

[Americano]

I didn't say they weren't. You failed to address that Skype was a trial offer.

Did you bother looking at the article I linked? Skype has specifically committed to *not* charging for 3G connections. Period. I'm aware that the original plan was to charge for 3G calls. They've abandoned that:

"In light of that, we no longer have plans to charge a supplement to make calls over 3G. We’re delighted to make it easier for you to talk for even longer and do even more together using Skype."

Closely tied like a Nissan GTR is closely tied to a Viper.

And yet nobody complains about how the Nissan GTR is "a locked down useless piece of junk" simply because it can't perform to exactly the same specifications as a Viper.

There's a lesson to be learned here: Your requirements are exceedingly steep for a phone. Your requirements are also very much unlike the requirements that the vast majority of other people have for a phone. Just like for most people, the GTR works great, and the extra expense and "performance" (which you rarely have the chance to take advantage of) of the Viper are simply not worth it.

Curiouser and curioser still, have you ever noticed that, despite all the claims that iPhone owners are "status conscious sheep," it's the people using the supposedly "open" devices who are the ones who seem to have the most to prove when it comes to these stupid dick-measuring contests of "My phone can do X, Y, and Z and YOURS is a piece of crap because it can't"?

Re:Heh

[GameboyRMH]

Did you bother looking at the article I linked? Skype has specifically committed to *not* charging for 3G connections. Period. I'm aware that the original plan was to charge for 3G calls. They've abandoned that:

I admit I didn't click the link since you seemed to be referencing the existence of those apps on the iPhone, which I knew all about. I see that Skype has dropped their plans to charge for service over 3G after the carriers capped data plans.

the GTR works great, and the extra expense and "performance" (which you rarely have the chance to take advantage of) of the Viper are simply not worth it.

Funny you mention that, the latest Viper costs about the same as a GTR, (and used ones are a fraction of the cost), much like more open phones cost around the same as a retail unlocked iPhone. So what's the penalty of using a more open phone? The UI doesn't look as nice?

here's a lesson to be learned here: Your requirements are exceedingly steep for a phone. Your requirements are also very much unlike the requirements that the vast majority of other people have for a phone.

My main requirement is that it lets me do whatever I want with no artificial restrictions. My old Treo 650 did that, even though it ran a closed-source OS and was far less capable, it allowed open development and the only restrictions you ran into were the technical limitations of the hardware and the OS. Once that's possible everything else falls into place - there were on-device compilers, alternate browsers and port scanners for PalmOS as well. Changing parts of the OS itself isn't strictly necessary.

Curiouser and curioser still, have you ever noticed that, despite all the claims that iPhone owners are "status conscious sheep," it's the people using the supposedly "open" devices who are the ones who seem to have the most to prove when it comes to these stupid dick-measuring contests of "My phone can do X, Y, and Z and YOURS is a piece of crap because it can't"?

Like the "useless piece of junk" phrase I never said anything about "status conscious sheep" myself - although some iPhone users definitely are and it's a common sentiment.

We open device people get into these "dick-measuring contests" because we want to discourage people from choosing these OSes that are basically prisons that are really nice inside, because we value software freedom. If this trend of decreasing software freedom on mobile OSes continues, at some point the restrictions might become too much for you as well.

Re:Heh

[shoehornjob]

I own both and I fail to see any major differences between the two other than the size and recent software enhancements. Most of the games look better but it still does pretty much the same stuff the Ipod touch does just bigger.

Rumor!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is coming out with a easy to swallow capsule.

Re:Rumor!

[Archangel Michael]

Red or Blue??

Re:Rumor!

[clang_jangle]

That's no capsule, it's a suppository!

Butt seriously, considering that worldwide mobile phone sales totaled 269.1 million units in the first quarter of 2009, 4 million iPads isn't that big a deal. I know an awful lot of people, and only two of them own iPads.

Re:Rumor!

[BarryJacobsen]

I know an awful lot of people, and only two of them own iPads.

I know an awful lot of people and none of them live in China. There can't be that many people in China...

Re:Rumor!

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Apple is coming out with a easy to swallow capsule.

Oh that'd be just lovely, 10 years of Slashdot jokes about how Apple customers swallow.

Re:Rumor!

[drsmithy]

Butt seriously, considering that worldwide mobile phone sales totaled 269.1 million units in the first quarter of 2009, 4 million iPads isn't that big a deal. I know an awful lot of people, and only two of them own iPads.

At VMworld a few weeks back, it seemed to me that about every fourth or fifth person was carrying one around.

Re:Rumor!

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF are you babbling about? Four million iPads is only impressive to a small company like Apple. You do realize there are 6,870,495,613 people on planet earth, 310,312,395 of them in the USA, right?

Re:Rumor!

[PhilHibbs]

What's the point in comparing phone sales to iPad sales? More cars were sold than motorbikes, and more colas than pizzas, so what?

Useless prediction

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I'm just going to go ahead and call it.

2011: Year of the soap bar

Re:Useless prediction

[binarylarry]

I think you mean the Year of the Dropping Soap.

Tablets are going to be popular and then they'll be gone like Betamax.

Re:Useless prediction

[Moridineas]

Tablets are going to be popular and then they'll be gone like Betamax.

Why do you believe that?

Re:Useless prediction

[grub]

2010: Year of the iPad
2011: Year of the [AOL]Me Too![/AOL]

Re:Useless prediction

[ByOhTek]

Why? We can fit most of the power people need in them, and they are convenient.

I have literally zero interest in a tablet. I like my books dead tree, and I'm usually by a computer, so if I need to do something internet/computer related, the computer is convenient, moreso since it's got a keyboard. That being said, I am NOT most users, most users don't usually have a computer nearby wherever they go, and most users don't do nearly as much typing, the point and click (or slide and tap) interfaces are just fine for them.

Re:Useless prediction

[ByOhTek]

I posted that, and then I realized, I would actually put a tablet to use in the kitchen, for recipes. That's about the only use I have for it. And it's not worth a tablet price.

Re:Useless prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

"Tablets are going to be popular and then they'll be gone like Betamax."

Why do you believe that?

Because like most people on Slashdot, he mindlessly rejects that people are getting value out of a product that he has decided he hates because he can't install Linux or Apache on it. Every time someone says iPad, at least 500 Slashdot users blow a gasket and start ranting about how the machine is useless to them and therefore there is nobody in the world who is correct about it being a good purchase. Heaven forbid that some of us like the app store and don't give a shit about the lack of flash on the device.

Those of us who bought them and make regular use of them will continue to happily use them. Mine could in no way replace my work laptop, but it wasn't bought to do the same things as I do on my laptop. In fact, it was bought to do all sorts of things that I don't do with my laptop, and as far away from a desk as I can manage. In fact, sitting in a recliner or on a sofa is one of the most common ways I use my iPad. Sitting in an airplane seat is another place I'd rather have an iPad.

Re:Useless prediction

[jedidiah]

> Why? We can fit most of the power people need in them, and they are convenient.

That only works out if hardware vendors don't castrate the device.

Re:Useless prediction

[BergZ]

Binarylarry's reasons almost certainly have to be more than just "Apple hate" because he didn't even single out the iPad.
He has declared that all tablets are just a fad.

Re:Useless prediction

[srussia]

I'm just going to go ahead and call it.

2011: Year of the soap bar

Nah, that was 2005 when the Motorola PEBL came out.

Re:Useless prediction

[Lunix Nutcase]

Your notion of convenience clearly seems to be one not shared by a ton of people otherwise the iPad wouldn't have sold 4 million units in under 6 months. It's amusing how those like you continually talk about how the iPod, iPhone and iPad weren't going to succeed because it didn't meet the niche requirements of a bunch of nerds and yet every single one of them have been smashing successes.

Re:Useless prediction

[bytesex]

I'm like you, and the only use I could see for a tablet was inside a car. As a click-on, do video for people in the back, and navigation for people in the front type of thing.

Re:Useless prediction

[Dr Max]

Wouldn’t it be nice if an i-phan didn't blow a gasket when you told them that the i-whatever doesn’t suit you for x,y,z reason. Or worse when you’re not even talking about his i-precious and he still leaps to its rescue (insecure much). Tablets are a fad because as consumers we want bigger screens on smaller devices. Plenty of people will use tablets for a while but, heads up display glasses, bendable/scrunchable displays, holograms, and brain computer interfaces are the future. I don’t want apple any were near my brain but I’m sure they will rush some one else’s product to market.

Another overblown bit of hype

[Sonny Yatsen]

I'm seriously waiting for this tablet hysteria to die down. In 2007/2008, it was netbooks and nowadays we barely hear a peep about them.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[frontwave]

The BBC called the iPad "a glorified toy", but the numbers are there: 4 million units in less than 5 months. I just try to look at the business market. Tablets are for hardware vendors what 3D is for TV now: an opportunity to raise profits. The mobile market is where people make money now

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Sonny Yatsen]

I'm not saying it's not going to sell. I'm saying I'm waiting for the breathless superlatives to die down.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[the plant doctor]

I still see quite a bit of news about them.

Dual core chips now being used, lots of new models being introduced.

I'd say netbooks aren't and weren't overblown, they filled and still fill a niche in the market that regular laptops don't and tablets can't.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[matty619]

I don't think its going away. I think in a couple years, the current ipad will look like a cruel joke, but the form factor will most definitely thrive, and schools will probably be the deciding factor on winners and losers. Make a tablet cheap enough to loose, rugged enough to survive a year in the hands of a 4th grader, and open enough to to become everything to everyone, and it will become ubiquitous.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Nursie]

That's mostly because they stopped selling the good ones. The attraction went away when they got bug (11+ inches), and stopped using solid state storage. At that point they were just cheap underpowered laptops.

And also the netbook has now been done. We don't hear much about how amazing laptops are here on /. either, do we?

But I think they still sell a few of those.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[poetmatt]

things get a rush of hype, and then it dies down. It doesn't mean the product loses relevance, it means it doesn't keep getting pushed for hype by advertisers.

You don't think this hype actually comes from the public, do you?

No, it comes from advertisers and publishers, driven by the seller of said product. Consumers just carry the hype.

Netbooks are still around, but yes, you don't hear about em as being hyped so much. In a couple years? Same with tablet.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[LoudMusic]

Don't hold your breath ;)

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Pojut]

You still hear a TON about them: current tablets are nothing more than netbooks minus the keyboards.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

The fact that 4 million people bought one doesn't mean it's not a toy. It just means that 4 million people bought a toy.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[dubbreak]

I'd say netbooks aren't and weren't overblown, they filled and still fill a niche in the market that regular laptops don't and tablets can't.

Yup. For the service guys at my work netbooks have been a blessing. They can take them to the field easily to attach to in field equipment. They are light and rugged enough for field work and are so cost effective that it becomes possible to carry a backup unit that gets left in the truck or hotel in case of failure. For the stuff they do a laptop is overkill (in both processing power and size + weight) and for the cost of a decently rugged laptop you can buy a bunch of netbooks.

I almost bought my wife a netbook for her blog surfing (to replace the aging bulky laptop she currently uses), but I'm glad I waited as an Android based tablet fits her usage even better (and costs less). I'm holding on a bit before jumping as I haven't seen enough reviews yet, but something like this $168 china sourced Android 2.1 tablet would probably suit her perfectly. I'm waiting on seeing some reviews before I pull the trigger on that particular one. At that cheap it's I can justify some risk.. but I'd like to read at least one review to mitigate the risk of it being complete junk.

I'm excited about the proliferation of low cost tablets. There are a lot of usage scenarios that they suit better than any other form factor (just as there are niche uses for netbooks). Let's face it, most people don't need the power of a full blown desktop or laptop. As a software developer that likes playing with media (RAW photos, movies etc) I DO need the horsepower, but for people like my wife or situations like my coworkers that just need to run configuration applications a netbook or tablet fits the bill perfectly.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Albanach]

In Q2 2010, PC makers shipped a combined 82.5 million devices. HP and Dell combined to ship over 25 million computers.

Over the course of a year, that's 330 million PCs. Assuming each one has a life span of four years, that puts 1.32 billion PCs in use.

Apple have achieved great sales numbers with the iPad. I've no doubt that they created a new market segment (though one that would likely have been created anyway). It's still useful to be able to place that 4m number in comparison with the billion plus computers already out there (and able to run Flash too!).

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

Current tablets are nothing more than netbooks minus the keyboards.

It's worse than that. At least with netbooks, you can get some real work done. iPads are good for reading and light e-mail, but if you're trying to actually do something, it helps to have a keyboard and a real OS (not just a phone OS). And lest anyone think I'm just picking on Apple here, I think HP's plans for a WebOS tablet are similarly ridiculous.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Cylix]

The mobile market has been ramping up for several months now.

I'm not sure if its actually predicted what customers want or simply marketing the shit out of it.

Personally, I've been wanting a couch surfer since a bit after the first asus clam shell mini netbook of doom. Mostly this was because my laptop was a bit on the heavy side and getting an ultra portable was a bit pricey. I've wasted far too much in the past on laptops and they depreciate so quickly. At this point I'm simply used to the convenience, but I've had a laptop in some shape or form since the late 90s. (Thankfully work paid for mine during my younger and less prosperous days.)

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPad is an *excellent* toy. My sister has one and loaded it up with educational materials for her kids. We decided to order take-out one night from a place we hadn't tried yet. I searched for the place on the iPad then passed it around so everyone could look at the menu and order what they wanted. My friend used his as a portable video player to show movies from his last vacation. It's not something I'd carry around with me like one does a cell phone, but I've seen how convenient it can be.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[saider]

They can't do that with computers, why would tablets be any different?

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[morgan_greywolf]

I think that the tablet is basically just a specialized form of smartphone. These gadgets have been predicted to replace the personal computer, and things are moving in that direction with smartphone GPUs, wireless graphics, etc.

The writing's on the wall: laptops and PCs will be replaced by smartphones (and tablets) as everyday computing devices for most of the public.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[BlueKitties]

People could have dismissed color TV as hype as well. Just because an accusation is easy to make, doesn't make it true. Having actually spent some time with an iPad (though I don't own one) I had to admit it really is a unique device. It's no more an "overblown iPhone" than a desktop computer is a "paper back book." Netbooks showed that our current way of doing things is severely outdated. Apple seems to have noticed this trend, and actually taken time to redesign the way we use computers on a daily basis. I'm personally waiting for the gPad -- I refuse to buy an Apple product, actually -- but they do get kudos for the iPad.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[shadowrat]

I work in an industry where we have historically bought US$3k+ touch screen devices to be the basis of kiosks. To our clients, the ipad is a miracle. It completely surpasses the hardware they were used to at a fraction of the price. From my perspective the ipad is every bit the piece of killer hardware the hype says it is and more.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Archangel Michael]

Looking back, the original linux kernel looks like a joke. So what is your point?

My point is that iPads are something that doesn't exist right now, in any other form / functionality/ease of use. Droid based tablets may (and probably will) make headway into that form factor market. We may see features and capabilities not found in current iPad and other tablet devices.

But does all of that mean that iPads are cruel jokes today? Hardly.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[hedwards]

Precisely. Netbooks serve a useful niche, unlike some other things which have managed to stick around for quite a while inexplicably. The iPods sticking around isn't a particular surprise, the tiny ones sticking around is rather inexplicable. But then again, hipsters tend to do that to a market. Call me old fashioned, but there is such a thing as too small.

I've got an Eee PC and I'll probably get another one at some point when this one dies off. It's the perfect size for on the go. But as you say, even if I wanted to buy a new one, right now the pickings are slim Presumably because they can do most of the things that most people want to do.

As big an issue is that it's getting tougher to find ones that run Linux. Windows is just not, IMHO, appropriate for a netbook.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

And Flash.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[StuartHankins]

Every blasted time someone mentions an iPad, some troll comes out of the woodwork to proclaim that netbooks are better. So in some strange way, the iPad may bring netbooks back. At least temporarily.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Haeleth]

The attraction went away when they got bug (11+ inches),

When they got over 11 inches they were big. The point at which they got bug was when Microsoft made all the vendors an offer they couldn't refuse.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Haeleth]

Apple seems to have [...] taken time to redesign the way we use computers on a daily basis. I'm personally waiting for the gPad -- I refuse to buy an Apple product

Wow, this is seriously impressive. The Reality Distortion Field is now so powerful that even Apple haters are spewing breathless hype!

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[StuartHankins]

What is particularly interesting is the growth rate. Over a very short period of time, Apple has shipped 16% as many very high-margin devices as compared to BOTH HP and Dell.

They don't need the volume, they will take the profit. Apple now has like 90% of the $1000 and more computer market. They're selling iPads as fast as they can make them available. These devices make Apple hundreds of dollars in profit for each sale. The apps add lots more profit on top, at a low impulse-buy price point that Joe Sixpack can meet easily.

Ignoring Apple because of their market segment would put you in the league of many others that did so in the past, but that turned out not to be such a smart idea as they are now worth more ($262 bln market cap) than either Microsoft ($212) + Nokia ($37) or Cisco ($123) + Oracle ($137). Apple is calling a lot of shots nowadays, and with $45 bln in cash they can deliver some payback as they see fit.

Or they could just swim in pools full of cash. I'm sure there's an app for that.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[TheGreek]

They can't do that with computers, why would tablets be any different?

Fewer moving parts.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[0123456]

At that point they were just cheap underpowered laptops.

And 'cheap underpowered laptops' are what a lot of us bought them for. Cheap so I don't have to justify buying one and don't have to be too upset if I lose it, small so I can carry it whenever I travel, and low-powered so the battery lasts for much longer than a typical full-size laptop.

Last I looked the local electronics store had about a third of their laptop section devoted to netbooks, so I don't see any sign that they've gone away.

That said, I'm looking forward to the era of cheap, underpowered tablets because there are a bunch of things I could use a cheap, very low power Linux machine for around the house where a netbook is still too expensive and power-hungry.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[matty619]

Uhoh....I really hope this doesn't devolve into an apple flamewar. Its like debating religion around here.

My point is that the ipad is intentionally closed and crippled, and intentionally lacks features.

When everyone is running around with tablets that have native USB/HDMI/SD ports/slots, and can change their own battery, can download and install different ROM's, can install any software they want, can choose whatever cell carrier they want....when all those options are available on competing devices, the current ipad will look like a cruel joke, because all those features were available at the time, yet weren't included. Its not like the technology simply didn't exist yet.

The Linux kernel of yesteryear wasn't intentionally crippled. The ipad of today *is*.

That's not to say that the current ipad isn't a slam dunk, because it is. But the only reason apple was able to get away with such a crippled device is because they were indeed first, and if you want a usable tablet, you've got to buy theirs, and if steve doesn't want you to be able to use an SD card, you can't. But once people become accustomed to a feature complete tablet market, the ipad will indeed seem like a cruel joke, as such basic features were intentionally excluded.

It would be like if apple was the first to produce a laptop, and the only product they offered was the macbook air. Everyone says "oh wow, how cool is that, its a portable computer!!", then a year later, everyone is running around with laptops with DVD burners, replaceable batteries, a full compliment of ports, faster CPU's, and half the cost. Does that mean the macbook air was a shitty product? No, but 95% of every other laptop sold is cheaper and more feature rich. And 99% of laptop consumers, if given the choice, will choose a laptop other than the Air. My point being, 99% of consumers, if given the choice, would choose a tablet other than the ipad. But since they're not given a choice, the joke is on them.

I'm sure they will continue to sell, and I'm sure people will still line up around the block to buy ipad3, and I'm sure those that do will still insist their product is superior to everything else, and they don't want ugly HDMI ports anyway, but their share of the tablet market will likely more closely resemble their share of the computer market.

And no, I'm not predicting the demise of apple, so please don't trot that one out again. I'm just hoping for an honest discussion.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[0123456]

So in some strange way, the iPad may bring netbooks back. At least temporarily.

The iPad may bring netbooks back? Why, did the iPad steal them? Mine still seems to be on my table, so perhaps the iPad missed it when it broke in.

More seriously, a quick look at Google shows that netbook sales are predicted to only grow by 20% this year after only growing 70% last year, and to only total about five times as many sales as the iPad. So I'm guessing that netbook manufacturers aren't worried yet.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[dzfoo]

I saw what you did there, slick.

      -dZ.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Dutchmaan]

I'm not so sure. The ipad/tablets are just taking the place of netbooks. In my opinion netbooks were just underpowered and cramped laptops. The ipad/tablets remove the cramped aspect of the netbook and slap on a touch based gui. It seems to me that it's just the natural evolution of the netbook, taking it's shortcomings and addressing them. So I suppose if netbooks were a toy to you, then by all means, believe that the ipad is a toy as well.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Duradin]

If you don't need USB/HDMI/SD ports/slots having them adds size or decreases the space available for something you will use, like the battery.

"My point being, 99% of consumers, if given the choice, would choose a tablet other than the ipad. But since they're not given a choice, the joke is on them."

"I'm just hoping for an honest discussion."

Good thing you told me since I wouldn't have guessed so otherwise.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[iluvcapra]

And 'cheap underpowered laptops' are what a lot of us bought them for. Cheap so I don't have to justify buying one and don't have to be too upset if I lose it, small so I can carry it whenever I travel, and low-powered so the battery lasts for much longer than a typical full-size laptop.

Most people won't buy a "cheap underpowrered laptop," but they will buy an expensive tablet with teh snappy. It's really about expectations -- something that's "cheap" generally won't sell to a large segment of a market for any price, because of the implication of shoddy quality. There's a difference between a "shoddy" computer and merely "slow" one of course, but it's not really relevant to most people, and something Apple tends to bery good at is calibrating expectations through clever positioning.

(Nota bene, I think Apple might actually be the only technology company that even tries to position its products to actual use cases, price points and user expectations, and doesn't just sell its products with a generic "It does what the competitors does, only better!")

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is everyone else is making a half assed attempt.

I look at all the current tablets and the coming ones and they all suck. ipad is the ONLY one with a decent battery life, decent performance and a OS designed for a very slow processor (1ghz is VERY SLOW by today's standards)

What do I see elsewhere? Well from the 13 tablets I personally tried, all you can buy right now on Amazon.com they all are dismal at best, utter garbage at worst. Then I see promises coming down the pipeline that look no better.

What did I settle on? A older Fujitsu Stylistic from 4 years ago running XP tablet edition. it does way more, is far faster feeling than all the rest and was cheaper than the ipad. Problem is I only get 3 hours of battery life from the new replacement battery.

Plus there are two killer "apps" that the ipad cant have, and the others dont have. Microsoft One Note for meetings and classes can not be beat. and PDF annotate. I can write on a PDF and email it back to a client with my notes intact. Yes I have to use a stylus, but that really is not a problem after you get used to it.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[uncanny]

I'm not so sure. The ipad/tablets are just taking the place of netbooks. In my opinion netbooks were just underpowered and cramped laptops. The ipad/tablets remove the cramped aspect of the netbook and slap on a touch based gui. It seems to me that it's just the natural evolution of the netbook, taking it's shortcomings and addressing them. So I suppose if netbooks were a toy to you, then by all means, believe that the ipad is a toy as well.

At least with netbooks you could put whatever you wanted on them (performance permitting) , upgrade them, etc... I might be interested in an iPad if they could run linux.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Archangel Michael]

I'm only going to address one point you made.

My point is that the ipad is intentionally closed and crippled, and intentionally lacks features.

Intentionally crippled (in your opinion) equals "just works" in mine. You want a Tablet built to your specific desires and wants, often unreasonable for most other people.

Car analogy: You want a car with a manual shift transmission. You want the clutch, six speed transmission. My wife wants a car to go to the store, and cares not about such things.

You see a manual transmission and say "I can fix that", replacing clutch plate, cables or whatever (reasonably simple job) while you look at a automatic trany with distain because you can't fix it. You see automatic 4 speed and think "Intentionally crippled". I mean, after all, it doesn't shift the way you want, nor have the number of gears you want.

You aren't the market for iPad, and that is okay. It doesn't mean the iPads are broken anymore than automatic trany is broken. It just isn't for you.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the Handheld PC hysteria of 1998 - 2002 or so. Ultimately, the world decided it wanted a bigger screen, a bigger keyboard, a more powerful processor capable of executing their apps, more memory, and more storage. In short: they wanted a laptop.

My H/PC ran an internet browser that was limited compaired to the desktop version, it had an 802.11B wireless adapter, an MP3 player, compact flash slot (I had a 128 MB card, later a 1GB card), picture viewer, video viewer, IRC, AIM, ICQ, Excel, Word. It also did Doom, numerous emulators, tons of nerd apps, and some cute programs. The battery life was 9+ hours. Hell, I could even print with it. It did absolutely everything I need it to do at the time. How often did I use this device? Hardly at all, for the reasons mentioned above. I could work and play better on a "real" computer.

The iPad and all announced knockoffs have the same flaws and more. Why do something clumsily on a shiny or tiny device when you can use the perfect tool for the job to get it done better and quicker?

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[capo_dei_capi]

A toy, as opposed to what? A serious business appliance?
AFAIK, it was supposed never supposed to be anything other than an entertainment device. And believe you me, there's a big market for entertainment devices...

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple now has like 90% of the $1000 and more computer market.

I'm curious as to where you go the statistic of "like 90%". I'm not immediately saying that your wrong about them having a large part of the expensive computer market, but last I checked, Apple had roughly 10% market share with their OS. And since only Apple sells Macs, the other 90% (approx) would be with Windows and Linux based systems. So the assertion that Apple hold 90% market share in computers over $1000 seems a bit far fetched.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[matty619]

Have you seen the inside of an ipad? There's tons of empty space in it.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[matty619]

USB is unreasonable? Removable media is unreasonable?

I never said broken, I said crippled.

I'd say the iphone (of which I"ve owned 2) is crippled compared to the latest Android phones. Doesn't matter if its the phone for me or not, the phone is comparatively crippled. There are many things an Android phone can do that an iphone can't. Its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[mcgrew]

Today's netbooks are more powerful than yesterday's laptops, even faster than yesterday's desktops. I have an old IBM Thinkpad I bought used for $20 (bad hard drive, using a thumb to replace it) and it's dog slow. The netbook I bought in April (Acer Aspire One) is fast as blazes, it's a whole lot faster than the last desktop I built five or so years ago.

With its USB ports and its VGA port there's nothing you can do with one you can't do with a notebook or desktop. Plug in a mouse, keyboard, monitor and external DVD burner and you have a desktop that runs rings around a five year old desktop.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

More to the point, there is also some evidence that iPads are selling mostly to current Apple product owners (see here and here). So it could be that most of the sales are to Apple folks buying the latest Apple product. Some things to think about: do those people have a greater disposable income than most? Were those people ever likely to buy a Windows or Linux based netbook?

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[StuartHankins]

Take a look... choose your source... it's been broadcast all over. http://www.google.com/search?q=apple+90%25+1000&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=snq&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=v&ei=Q1-aTPHsDoKC8ga60Jko&start=10&sa=N

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Archangel Michael]

Design options unreasonable or crippled.

iPad Camera Connection Kit including a USB Type A connector adapter and an SD card reader, for transferring photos and videos

It has options for what you want. That is not "crippled". Proprietary maybe, crippled no. It was a design choice that suits MOST people.

You're not "most people".

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[MrEricSir]

Apple sells to geeks, and geeks tend to have Apple products AND products from other companies.

I'm sure if you look at sales of netbooks, you'll find that most of them are purchased by geeks who can't stand being without a computer and want something small and light for travel purposes. Many of these geeks will also own Apple products. Why? Because they're geeks.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[matty619]

It has options for what you want. That is not "crippled". Proprietary maybe, crippled no. It was a design choice that suits MOST people.

You're not "most people".

Hrm...I don't know about that. I *think* that if you presented people with a choice between 2 ipads, one that had native support for USB/SD/HDMI and one where they had to purchase an adapter for each, I think *most* people would choose the one that has all these things built in. Just because people are buying the ipad, doesn't mean they don't want these features. People want a tablet, and right now, the ipad is pretty much the *only* tablet on the market. If the Ford Fiesta were the only car on the market, would you make the assumption that the Ford Fiesta is what most people want in a car just because people are buying it?

It is my opinion that the ipad will be the *only* tablet on the market without these basic features in the next few years.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[mcgrew]

Make a tablet cheap enough to loose

It would have to be five bucks or less before I'd loose it, but a hundred would be cheap enough to lose. My phone is a hundred bucks, and I keep my eye on it. If it was five I'd not worry.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[natehoy]

I'm a private pilot, and at least one of my friends is about to order an iPad as an electronic kneeboard, and I'm giving it some serious thought. There's a service that offers him approach plates and aviation charts at various levels of details with zoom and pan and "pull up A/FD detail on this airport" with a single tap, all for under $100 a year. Even if it doesn't offer GPS tracking on the maps (he wouldn't depend on it as a primary navigation device anyway, he's got a cockpit GPS for that) it'll save him several hundred dollars a year in chart, plate, and A/FD purchases.

Enough that even the GPS and cell-enabled one will pay for itself in purchases in less than two years.

He's IFR, I'm VFR, so my overall chart purchases aren't that much more than the annual service, so it'll never pay for itself in my case. But there's the convenience. We are located very close to the intersection of the New York, Montreal, and Halifax sectional VFR charts, so for all practical purposes you need to have all three for most flights and swap between them frequently on a lot of flights. This is a pain in the ass, a risk of having an obsolete chart (because the charts all expire on different schedules), and a distraction when flipping across charts. One contiguous chart that is always up to date and covers our area without edges is worth some serious thought.

I don't see any other practical value for the thing for my purposes, but you never know.

About my only gripe is the durability. Obviously, an aviation-designed electronic kneeboard is going to be pretty bulletproof. On the other hand, it's going to cost ten times as much, too, and I can afford one heck of a nice protective case for the cost of 3-4 charts.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

I'm not so sure. The ipad/tablets are just taking the place of netbooks. In my opinion netbooks were just underpowered and cramped laptops. The ipad/tablets remove the cramped aspect of the netbook and slap on a touch based gui. It seems to me that it's just the natural evolution of the netbook, taking it's shortcomings and addressing them. So I suppose if netbooks were a toy to you, then by all means, believe that the ipad is a toy as well.

You're missing one of the important aspects of netbooks. They run real operating systems (i.e., not phone OSes). They don't limit you to whatever the manufacturer (be it Apple or anyone else) wants to sell you in their app store.

I'd also take issue with the idea that removing the keyboard eliminates the "cramped aspect of a netbook". You can rip out the steering wheel in a car to get more space, but have you really gained anything? Typing on a netbook may not be a dream come true, but it's a damn sight better than "typing" on a piece of glass.

Another difference that can't be overstated is the black box problem. With an OS like iOS, you don't have any access to anything under the GUI, and the GUI itself only gives you the most shallow of access. Even those applications that do give you folder access on the iPod (and, presumably, the iPad) have to be run from the desktop.

Now, is this all some people need? Sure. There are a lot of people who can get by never having to type a long document, or do content creation on their devices. But these people aren't using their iPads for work. They've got real jobs that require more horsepower. They're using their iPads as toys.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

A toy, as opposed to what? A serious business appliance? AFAIK, it was supposed never supposed to be anything other than an entertainment device. And believe you me, there's a big market for entertainment devices...

When Jobs announced it, he didn't position it as strictly an entertainment device. He took solid aim at netbooks. A lot of people are dialing back expectations now, acting like all the iPad was ever supposed to be was a larger version of the iPhone, but if you'll recall, these are the same people who were arguing against that idea when the iPad was first introduced.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[drsmithy]

Take a look... choose your source... it's been broadcast all over.

The most important thing to keep in mind with that statistic is that most PCs bought cost (well) under $1000, while only two Macs (practically speaking, only one, the MacBook is $999) cost less than a grand. The average price paid for a PC is something like $500, while for a Mac it's something like $1500.

Or, to put it another way, it's a bit like talking about how Bugatti has 90% (number made up, but you get the idea) of the marketshare for cars costing over two million dollars. It's absolutely true, but it doesn't tell you anything about the cars 90% *of all people* are buying.

Also, from memory, that statistic was only for computers bought in physical retail stores. Ie: the thousand PCs $SOME_BUSINESS just bought aren't even counted.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Archangel Michael]

Would you want an iPad if it was thicker, heavier easier to break?

As for your car analogy, More like you're comparing one of these to a car, and saying it was intentionally crippled (no fourth wheel, no spare etc).

I just see things differently than most ;) (and I don't own any apple products)

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[shutdown -p now]

We don't hear much about them, true. But I still see a lot of people with netbooks around me, and the local Best Buy is always pretty well-stocked on them. I'd say that the "fad" is over in a sense that netbooks became a mature product now.

And I think tablets will, too. I wasn't particularly interested in one until recently, when I purchased an iPad for my mother, and had two weeks to play with it in the meantime. It definitely got me convinced that tables are a viable concept that I, personally, would find very useful in addition to the existing line of gadgets that I own. Not an iPad, for sure - there were enough annoyances about what it can't do that I wouldn't buy one for myself - so now I'm just waiting for a good Android 2.2 tablet. Hopefully, Notion Ink Adam will be it.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[StuartHankins]

Yep, your points may very well be valid, I was simply showing the source as requested.

But I think by concentrating on volume you are missing the big picture: You can't make up low gross profit percentages with volume. Manufacturing costs per unit may go down, but infrastructure, distribution, support, logistics, packaging, and personnel costs go up as volume increases.

So what these reports (and others) are saying is Apple has the high-end market. Despite a much lower volume they make considerable money. That's interesting for a variety of reasons, and Apple has taken the position that the commodity PC vendors can fight over the scraps.

HP's currently valued at $90B and Dell at 24B. Together they are not quite half the valuation as Apple. Now, valuation isn't everything, but those numbers don't just magically appear, they are based on a lot of other factors, the majority of which have something to do with profitability or a perceived return on investment.

If Apple's tiny share of the market makes it far more valuable than 2 of the top PC manufacturers, what happens if it enlarges its share? And conversely, why should they reduce prices when they have so many buyers at the current prices -- enough to be profitable several times over the competition?

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[capo_dei_capi]

If I remember right it was primarily marketed as a:

• web surfing device
• PMP (video, music playback)
• e-book reader

You might find serious applications for all of these features (e.g. reading textbooks), but they are mostly associated with entertainment.
Also, while it does sport all the necessary capabilities, the iphone doesn't exactly shine in any of the above applications, mainly due to the small screen.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[tlhIngan]

I'm not so sure. The ipad/tablets are just taking the place of netbooks. In my opinion netbooks were just underpowered and cramped laptops. The ipad/tablets remove the cramped aspect of the netbook and slap on a touch based gui. It seems to me that it's just the natural evolution of the netbook, taking it's shortcomings and addressing them. So I suppose if netbooks were a toy to you, then by all means, believe that the ipad is a toy as well.

You're missing one of the important aspects of netbooks. They run real operating systems (i.e., not phone OSes). They don't limit you to whatever the manufacturer (be it Apple or anyone else) wants to sell you in their app store.

That's the point. A tablet shouldn't run a regular OS. It's been proven with the success of Windows 3.1 for Pen Tablets, Windows XP Tablet Edition, Origami, Tablet PCs, and so on.

Touch UIs are different, period. Sure it's nice if you could run Windows 7 on it, or Linux, or what have you, but you're contending with the limited interaction available with a touch screen. That's why despite running a cut-down version of OS X, Apple didn't port the OS X UI libraries to iOS, they invented a new UI API. Touch interaction is different enough that a developer needs to spend time and think how the interactions have to work.

An example - there is no "right click" with a touch UI. Try to get through your day by using your keyboard and only the left button of your mouse. It'll be a fairly long day. With full OSes, we've had to emulate this with stuff like active digitizers and buttons on the stylus, or tap-and-hold (which works because most apps don't use left-click-and-hold as a valid input response).

Another example - dragging on a touch screen is hard, the further you go, the more likely it is somewhere along the line you'll end up with a pen up detection. If you have a stylus, you can probably press hard during the drag (risking scratching the screen) to help minimize this.

MOre things to be concerned about with a touch interface - double-tapping is hard, some UI elements may be too hard to hit reliably etc. OTOH, things like gestures and "flicking" is easy, so you want to design your UI based on the ability for a finger to flick through easily. Flicking with a mouse is hard, though - can be done, but it's not likely to be any good (which is why we have the mouse wheel).

The things really available to a touch screen are simple taps, and small gestures. And the targets ought to be nice and big with spacing between targets to allow for misses.

Running a full OS On a tablet is cool. But then the UI limitations get old, quick, and the workarounds get annoying. Then you come up with some brilliant guy who uses a spinner control where the up/down button fits on a 1-line high textbox. Hitting it precisely can be really difficult and you'll probably hit the wrong arrow a good portion of the time.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[matty619]

I spose time will tell :) I'll be sure to shoot you a PM from my USB/HDMI/SD flash enabled tablet in a year or so :P

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

By what metric does a netbook provide enough horsepower to accomplish 'real jobs' either? Do you have any idea how much people actually do with their iPads? What isn't 'real' about iOS if you can perform the same everyday tasks? By your definition and the readily available data on sales figures and web usage, why would I want a netbook over this device, that does these things as quickly and more elegantly?

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

I think we're talking about two different things. I wholeheartedly agree that you need a UI different from Windows for a touch-based GUI. But you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You don't have to have a system where the manufacturer acts as a gatekeeper to what can and can't be put on the device. And you don't have to have a system where the file system is completely abstracted away from you, and you have no choice on where to put things. There should be defaults as to where to store things, for newbies, but there shouldn't be mandated storage areas for files.

Most of all, though, a good touch OS should allow you to do everything you can do on a conventional OS. From what I've been reading about iWork, it's a pale shadow of an office suite. There's no excuse for that. What justification could there be for such a paltry application suite? It seems nonsensical to me. If I'm going to pay more than a netbook for a device, it should do more than a netbook. And that's why it needs a real OS.

.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

Check out the press conference at ~ 1:05-1:20, where Jobs specifically pits the iPad against the netbook -- even in what software they can run (which if you think about it, took real chutzpah, given the limited software an iPad can run).

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

By what metric does a netbook provide enough horsepower to accomplish 'real jobs' either?

At least on a netbook, you can run a real office suite. Have you read any reviews comparing the iWorks on an iPad with that on a Mac? It's not pretty. And that's without getting into all the applications you can run on a netbook that won't run on an iPad. You don't want to do gaming on a netbook, generally, but they're nowhere near as limited as what you can run on the iPad or iPhone.

By your definition and the readily available data on sales figures and web usage, why would I want a netbook over this device, that does these things as quickly and more elegantly?

Mostly because it doesn't do the same tasks you can do with a netbook. Even a mediocre netbook has a lot more flexibility than an iPad.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[ToasterMonkey]

I'm seriously waiting for this tablet hysteria to die down. In 2007/2008, it was netbooks and nowadays we barely hear a peep about them.

What? Whaaaat? I can't hear anything over the deafening feedback noise you call the Internet! Maybe you should turn it off and go outside now and then!

No really, turn it off once in a while and look around the real world. What netbook hysteria? What tablet hysteria?
Are netbooks profitable? Are tablets? (hint: one of those is defined by its price range, one is not)

Think slower.
2011 is 100% speculation.
Please don't irresponsibly extrapolate from Internet memes.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Nursie]

Yeah, I didn't mention the "-1, no linux" thing because I then realised it's not a major selling point for most people.

But the opposite situation, the Windows is too heavy and slow for a netbook, well that's true and could have resulted in a decline in their popularity.

Anyway, I still love my eee 901 and hope it keeps running for a long time yet.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Dr Max]

That propaganda is only suitable to a certain type of individual.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Dr Max]

I’m not really sure what geek even means anymore. It used to mean circus performer who did weird acts. But it defiantly doesn’t describe the millions of girls addicted to face book apps; grandmothers who need something dead simple; and middle age men who never really liked computers, but now all his mates at the golf club have one. However, I’m pretty sure all geeks are impressed with top of the line performance, compatibility, and customisation. When apple starts doing things like good ol wozzie then maybe they will go after the geeks till then it’s the wannabes, who are a lot less picky and more loyal than the tech minded elitists (they will just buy apple instead of comparing the competitions specs). (There are a few geeks with iphones its just not there target audience).

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Dutchmaan]

I'm sure the ipad could have run a "normal" OS, however it seems more apparent to me that using the iphone OS as a base seems to make more sense. They're both touch based GUI's and iOS is probably a more simple base from which to build. It seems a wiser choice to start with something simple and add things that you can be sure are to work the way you intend them to, than to try and strip down a full OS and find out certain things don't work quite the same. With Apple it has and probably always will be about the user experience over raw functionality.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Anonymous Coward]

you can do it with computers just not an apple one.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[drsmithy]

But I think by concentrating on volume you are missing the big picture:

I'm not concentrating on volume, I'm making the point that your 90% number is a case of lying with statistics. It doesn't really tell you anything useful about the computing market because it's only providing information about a relatively tiny part of it. The cheapest useful Mac you can buy will set you back somewhere between US$800 and $900, whereas the average computer buyer spends $500 or less. That's why despite the 90% number, only something in the 5% region of computers actually out there are Macs.

So what these reports (and others) are saying is Apple has the high-end market.

No, they're not. They're saying is that of the computers sold in brick and mortar stores, Apple sells 90% of the ones that cost more than a grand.

So the 100 dual-CPU, quad-LCD, $3000ea PCs that some Radiology practice just bought directly from Dell aren't counted in that statistic at all. Neither are the 50 $2000 high-end gaming PCs that random people bought online from NewEgg yesterday. Neither are the dozen quad-CPU, 256GB-RAM servers a cloud hosting company just bought to expand their business with.

Despite a much lower volume they make considerable money. That's interesting for a variety of reasons, and Apple has taken the position that the commodity PC vendors can fight over the scraps.

There's nothing new about Apple's position. They've always been about low-volume, high-profit-margin products. Apple has never, ever demonstrated any ambition to become a majority market share holder the across the whole industry - one of the biggest reasons they've never really seriously courted businesses (outside of specialised niches - and even then it's mostly word of mouth), and why their product line has such gaping holes in it.

If Apple's tiny share of the market makes it far more valuable than 2 of the top PC manufacturers, what happens if it enlarges its share?

Their profit margin goes down because they can only increase marketshare by competing in the markets where the majority of sales are going (ca. $500). Not only that, but they need to retool their whole production and marketing strategy to cater to the things their new customers would expect (eg: predictable and consistent hardware for businesses, constantly dropping prices for home users).

Make no mistake. Apple as they work today could not compete with Dell (or HP) on Dell's turf. It'd be like throwing the best NFL team in the world into a cricket tournament.

And conversely, why should they reduce prices when they have so many buyers at the current prices -- enough to be profitable several times over the competition?

They shouldn't. Unless they want to increase market share, of course, which they can only do by selling lots of cheaper computers.

The problem with a world where every company is like Apple, is that (relatively speaking) hardly anyone has computers, because they can't afford them.

Finally, most of Apple's money isn't made selling computers, it's made selling iPods, iPhones, iPads and associated services. The overall point I'm trying to make here is that Apple's (excellent) financial position cannot be, in any way, mapped to a proportionally commanding position in the market.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Dr Max]

Good lord did you just compare the ipad to color TV. The day apple actually improves a product like that (and not just re-sell other peoples hardware at inflated prices with more restrictions) is the day I buy apple. Somehow I don't think the large amount of money it costs to get apple is at risk (not unless they got woz back).

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[MrEricSir]

And a true geek knows the difference between "their" and "there."

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

I'm sure the ipad could have run a "normal" OS, however it seems more apparent to me that using the iphone OS as a base seems to make more sense.

I agree that it makes sense to start with what people know. It's just that you don't have to end there. That's where I think Apple's gone wrong with the iPad. I think of the iPhone as a handheld computer, and as such, I think the OS isn't quite what it should be (e.g., the walled garden, the inability to go under the hood, etc.), but I can see the argument that a phone needs to be that simple to just work and not be subject to variance the way a desktop or other full-size computer is. But I don't see the same rationale holding true for a tablet. That's what I'm saying.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

That's because netbooks didn't have much of an advantage to begin with. Tablets will be more successful because for most people, they do properly what netbooks promised but delivered poorly.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

iOS is a real operating system, I assure you.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

iOS is a real operating system, I assure you.

Until Apple removes the restrictions inherent in iOS, it's not a real OS, as I defined above. Sure, it's an operating system, in the sense that it contains the instructions for operating the phone and making the UI work, but it doesn't measure up to the kind of sophisticated OS you get on a desktop, laptop, or even a netbook. Let me break it down for you:

1) iOS has a walled garden in terms of software. 2) iOS is a black box, in that it doesn't give you access to the internals the way a "real" OS would. 3) For a number of reasons, iOS doesn't give you real content creation power (e.g., a desktop-level office suite, graphics editor, etc. On a phone, that's perfectly reasonable, since a phone isn't the right size to be a usable work computer, but a tablet the iPad's size doesn't have that size limitation.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Dr Max]

Really, thats how it is determined is it? i'm a dyslexic autistic and i can get their and there confused. It doesn't matter that i could code you under the table, nup it comes down to grammar. I'll take from your silence on the rest of my comment as agreement.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[Dr Max]

I think you'll find it doesn't happen when some one mentions an ipad. Its when some one tells them the ipad is the bees knees and can replace all netbooks. Then they feel obliged to point out all the reasons it doesn't suit them. Its a natural reaction to the amount of hype apple products spew.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[bhartman34]

From what I understand, the invite list to those press conferences are pretty much fanboys-only, so it's not surprising.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[BlueKitties]

No, I compared it to something else which also could have been dismissed at hype. "Look! I compared this to something which was over-hyped. Ergo this is also over-hyped." Well hey look, I just compared it to color TV too.

Re:Another overblown bit of hype

[wondafucka]

I'm seriously waiting for this tablet hysteria to die down. In 2007/2008, it was netbooks and nowadays we barely hear a peep about them.

I'm seriously waiting for nerds to realize that they are no longer the arbiters of cool or the most influential in what technology is developed, marketed, and makes manufacturers boat loads of money.

You don't hear a peep about netbooks because they are ubiquitous. It's called NEWs.

Doubt it

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

I think apple is riding on its marketing success with the iphone which rode on the marketing success of the ipod, and the other manufacturers are just chasing to keep up. In terms of utility I don't find tablets all that great, unless maybe someone comes up with a colour, solar powered, ruggedised ebook reader, then I'll buy two. I'd call it a pad fad until then. I know there will be hundreds of comments detailing all the wonderful uses they have found for the tablet, but I can't think of many my laptop doesn't do a lot better.

Re:Doubt it

[riegel]

I think apple is riding on its marketing success with the iphone which rode on the marketing success of the ipod.

Or perhaps people like devices that pack a lot of functionality into a small footprint.

I'm old but I loved the walkman because it was small. I loved the iPod because it was small, I love my iPhone because it is small, and I love the small size of the iPad.

Re:Doubt it

[Abcd1234]

In terms of utility I don't find tablets all that great

A little contrast: I'm a programmer and a power user, with, god, 15 years of Linux under my belt. I recently replaced my Palm TX with a 4g Touch, mainly for use as an ereader and music player, and yet suddenly I find myself using it instead of pulling out my laptop for certain things. Want to check my email? Browse my RSS feeds? Look up a wikipedia article? (Yes, I admit it) Check Facebook? All these things work great on my touch. But it's often that I really wish it had a larger screen... the instant on, always connected convenience is awesome, Safari is an impressive piece of work, and the high-res display means the touch is decent for web browsing, but a larger screen would be perfect. As such, I can conclude that I would likely find myself completely replacing my laptop with a tablet for idle internet noodling if such a device was available to me.

'course, as always, I'm going to wait a hardware generation or two before I take the plunge. But I can definitely see a tablet filling a niche in my day-to-day life.

Re:Doubt it

[Anonymous Coward]

I think apple is riding on its marketing success with the iphone which rode on the marketing success of the ipod, and the other manufacturers are just chasing to keep up. In terms of utility I don't find tablets all that great, unless maybe someone comes up with a colour, solar powered, ruggedised ebook reader, then I'll buy two. I'd call it a pad fad until then. I know there will be hundreds of comments detailing all the wonderful uses they have found for the tablet, but I can't think of many my laptop doesn't do a lot better.

And I can't think of anything your laptop does that my desktop can't do a lot better.

Obviously, laptops are a fad.

Re:Doubt it

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

You can play expensive frisbee with your desktop? Impressive.

Re:Doubt it

[Missing.Matter]

I bought my iPad as an ebook reader. Kindle is nice for novels, but it's awful for textbooks.

However, just 10 minutes ago I was reading with my iPad outside and it popped up a warning that it was overheating, and I'd have to wait for it to cool down. It's only 75 degrees out!

Re:Doubt it

[hercubus]

... I loved the walkman because it was small. I loved the iPod because it was small, I love my iPhone because it is small, and I love the small size of the iPad.

So if normal guys love large trucks because they compensate, and you appently love small things, then that must mean, umm, "Oh! Hello sailor!!!"

Re:Doubt it

[archmcd]

Or this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiNaadVOQEM

Re:Doubt it

[hedwards]

Or you've got small hands. A lot of the Apple products these days are really tough to use with somebody that has large hands. Some of those apple devices are small enough that if I use my pinky, I'm still covering up most of the device. I'm going to have to see that new Nano, I'm curious if it's even usable by an adult. From the advertisements it looks rather improbable.

Re:Doubt it

[Nikker]

I agree with you that these little devices are great for browsing for info and basic tasks but when I compare them to tablets I realize that they won't fit in my pocket. Most of the time I use my iPhone to look up quick info but it's because I already have it on me. If I had a tablet would I carry it around with me as much as my cell? Not likely. I would like to see one with much better specs as far as CPU, graphics, USB, SSD and HDMI and way more RAM(at least 1GB). With these specs I would definately use on as a laptop replacement, I don't really play games and the time wasters you can pick up for free are usually good enough for me. I could use it for small presentations and might even get a small laser projector(another tech gadget I'm watching closely) and a laser keyboard I'll be set.

It will take the first generation to dissipate before we start to see this kind of stuff out there so early adopters ...

Please disregard the previous message.

Re:Doubt it

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

That and the luminous screen. Its this simple - read from a bright screen, and read from a piece of paper; which is preferable? The paper for most people I would say. So e-ink being a non luminous medium is much better for reading, and what a day that will be, hundreds of thousands of novels in a thumb drive, tiny form factor, and powered by the light you read by, in particular since e-ink devices use far less power. I will in fact buy three and use the other two for spare parts. All DRM free needless to say.

Re:Doubt it

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Ooh and capacitors or long lifespan batteries, that is all that is needed to create a device which cannot be topped, ever.

Re:Doubt it

[Grizzley9]

I've seen the argument and commercials where E-ink is easier to read in bright sunlight. Conversely iPad type screens are easier to read in low light obviously since they provide their own light. Until a screen tech is perfected for both situations, there will be instances where each has it's weaknesses.

Re:Doubt it

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

The tech you can use to read e-ink in low light is the same as you would use to read books in low light situations, lightbulbs. Again I'm not seeing a lot of low light use of computers, but if you needed to do that with e-ink it would be simple to have an LED extension over the top.

Re:Doubt it

[syousef]

I'm a programmer and a power user, with, god

I've heard that fanboism could take on almost religious fervour, but that just takes the cake! ;-)

Re:Doubt it

[DrgnDancer]

There was an article on Idle a while back about the Sumo Wrestling federation in Japan buying iPads for their schools, because the wrestler's fingers were too big for phone keyboards. Maybe it's the device for you too :-P

Re:Doubt it

[Abcd1234]

That and the luminous screen. Its this simple - read from a bright screen, and read from a piece of paper; which is preferable? The paper for most people I would say.

I'm actually no longer convinced of that.

In a well-lit room, yeah sure, reflective can be more comfortable to read. But the minute you find yourself in low-light conditions, or where the light is a localized source, your reading position is suddenly limited by the light. Want to turn over? Nope, sorry, the light's behind you now. Want to read, say, during movie previews? Not happening at all.

I've read for *hours* on my old Palm (and now my Touch) in the dark, with the backlight set very low, with absolutely no problems. No eye fatigue at all, and I can read in whatever position I find comfortable. Good luck trying that with a Kindle. Meanwhile, I can control the contrast, brightness levels, text and background colour, etc, as I see fit.

Now, obviously it's not great in very bright conditions. But most of the time, I think I actually prefer a backlit screen now... go figure.

Re:Doubt it

[Missing.Matter]

iPad is also pretty awful in low light. The minimum brightness allowed is still pretty damn bright when you're in a dark room. Apps like iBooks allow you to turn down the brightness more than this minimum, but that is not an option found in all reader apps.

Oh, and that's another thing frustrating the hell out of me: reader apps. Why does every book I have to download have its own damn app? Why can't I download books in a portable, DRM free format? Imagine if I needed an music app for every song I wanted to listen to.

Re:Doubt it

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Hate to break it to you, but marketing isn't as nearly as magical as some people seem to think it is. Apple doesn't sell its products by good marketing alone. The iPad and iPhone sell well because they are good products. The reputation of the iPod as a good product would have helped, but that's not quite the same thing as riding the marketing success of the iPod.

Re:Doubt it

[Dr Max]

Except when you set up a desktop in the park, all the picnickers get pissed about the sound and fumes the generator is making.

Re:Doubt it

[Dr Max]

Until a screen tech is perfected for both situations, there will be instances where each has it's weaknesses.

pixel qi.

Wrong

[SkankinMonkey]

I thought 2011 was going to be the year of Linux on the desktop?

Re:Wrong

[wjousts]

2012 will be the year of the Linux tablet! You heard it here first!

Re:Wrong

[chargersfan420]

It seems that next year is the year of the Linux desktop, no matter what year it is currently.

Re:Wrong

[ModernGeek]

That was 1998.

Re:Wrong

[Merk42]

It will be the year of Linux on the desktop when Linux on the desktop is advertised on TV.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Ubuntu***

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

It will be. Unfortunately everyone will be using tablets instead of desktops.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Android***

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Call me when it's the year of the Linux iPad.

Re:Wrong

[SkankinMonkey]

Damn, you caught my subtle ruse. I'll have to be careful around you.

Re:Wrong

[Etiko]

You may have a point here. MeeGo tablets are on their way and the the previews look great.

Notion Ink's Adam

[sverrehu]

What? No mention of the Pixel Qi -based Adam? This is the one I'm waiting for.
http://notionink.wordpress.com/
http://www.notionink.in/

Re:Notion Ink's Adam

[tyger_purr]

I tried to go to the norton ink site but it just says my device doesnt have flash and probably never will but norton ink does....... well thats nice, but it doesn't help me learn about thier product. If their site is in flash, how do they expect to woo iUsers?

Re:Notion Ink's Adam

[0100010001010011]

How long have you been waiting? I remember this from almost a year ago, if not longer.

Mayor hardware vendors?

[theNetImp]

What is this 4square? When did hardware vendors become mayors?

Re:Mayor hardware vendors?

[Anonymous Coward]

To the people who have no idea what 4square is: You check in with your location. The person who goes to a place most often gets the title of "Mayor" of that location. (My girlfriend explained it to me a few days ago. She's decided to become mayor of our house.)

Re:Mayor hardware vendors?

[Eldragon]

Mayor Hardware Vendor has no comment at this time. Mayor McCheese encourages all citizens to eat more cheeseburgers.

Re:Mayor hardware vendors?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously mayor hardware vendors are hardware vendors with exclusively mayoral custom.

Re:Mayor hardware vendors?

[seanonymous]

My hardware is made by McCheese.

One question:

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a "mayor hardware vendor"?

Re:One question:

[MarkGriz]

What's a "mayor hardware vendor"?

He's the guy in charge of overseeing the LCD/memory/processor price fixing

The year of...

[FaxeTheCat]

I thought the phrase "The year of" belonged to the Linux community for all eternity... or at least until it is.

Re:The year of...

[ColdWetDog]

I thought the phrase "The year of" belonged to the Linux community for all eternity...

Well you all had damn well better hurry up. 2012 is coming up fast and it's either going to be the Mayan end-of-days or Sarah Palin.

Re:The year of...

[BlueKitties]

(Offtopic) When I read this, I instinctively went to click the "like" button. I've been on Facebook too much...

Re:The year of...

[silverglade00]

...either going to be the Mayan end-of-days or Sarah Palin.

-1, Redundant.

I doubt it.

[PhilipTheHermit]

Tablets have traditionally been used in realms like manufacturing and maintenance, where they replace the clipboards technicians used to carry around. They're useful for activities in which you're running around collecting data (i.e. checking inventory in a warehouse) or going through checklists (i.e. doing maintenance checks on an aircraft's engines). But how useful are they as general-purpose computing devices?

We already have desktops and laptops, which are much better at general-purpose computing than tablets.

We already have smartphones for our mobile computing needs.

We have e-Book readers for carrying books around with us. They're getting programmable too.

Someone tell me: what do we need tablets FOR? What can they do that our other gear doesn't already do more effectively?

They don't seem that useful to me, compared to the alternatives.

 

Re:I doubt it.

[grub]

Our iPad has...

... pretty much replaced the laptop. It was used mostly for web browsing and PDF reading. Instant on and no Windows chaff (AV, Spyware, etc.) to worry about makes this a sheer win for the iPad.
... works as a smartphone. Skype and Acrobits Smartphone (VoIP) work well on the iPad.
... is used as an eBook reader (mostly PDF and epub)

So, yeah, it's not a necessity in the sense that food and water are but it's a darn useful device. The most surprising for me was the laptop. It's only been booted up to get passwords for sites we now visit on the iPad.

YMMV, of course.

Re:I doubt it.

[The Phantom Mensch]

They are computers for folks that don't do "general purpose" computing. Folks that want to browse some websites, check their facebook and e-mail, carry their photos around and play some games. All without waiting for a general purpose OS to boot or worrying about a virus protection subscription. If a general purpose computer is for folks aged 13-70, iPad like tablets are for the 9-90 year olds.

They're also a good secondary device the rest of us for low intensity after hours computing like the above mentioned activities. The size and screen resolution make them better than smartphones for this, and the instant-on Android/iOS applications environment make them better than netbooks for this.

Re:I doubt it.

[EkriirkE]

I've owned only tablet (convertible) pcs for about 6 years now, in tablet mode the only good uses I use that for are

• web browsing
• video
• reading
• drawing
• many games*
• presentations/demos
• the swiveled screen in laptop mode was handy for sharing my non-projected screen

*I had a toshiba tecra m4 that had a nifty little arrow-key joystick button on the corner which was awesome for RPGs using the pen for mouse. right now i use a smaller fujitsu lifebook which lacks these - when it dies i will look for another one with the thumbstick on the screen bezel

Re:I doubt it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those "only good uses" are what 90% of people do on their computers 100% of the time, so I guess you can see why the tablet market is heating up.

Not everyone is a programmer.

Re:I doubt it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've known a few people with tablets over the years. They're toys. They'll play with them a good bit at first, but in time, they'll want to sit down in a chair, type on a keyboard, etc, etc.

Of course, not all tablets are used for functionality. They're more of a status symbol. Why do you think people buy their Apple's? "Look at me, I have an expensive computer." Of course the fanbois will say "Not true!" That's coming from the same people who put the stupid apple sticker on their car. They wear Apple gear (hats, tshirts, etc) for no apparent reason. And those damned "MobileMe" (@mac.com, @me.com) email addresses. No, you didn't just spend a lot more than the machine was worth, but you're also making residual payments.

When you need to make a statement like "I have money to burn, so I buy the best.", the Mac Fanbois throw every last penny at their Mac. They also refuse to face reality when you say "but you can do the same thing for half the price ...." So, they're the perfect consumer. They are driven by brand recognition, and will flaunt it any chance they get. If you're sitting in a Starfucks with any PC based tablet, you're sure to get the Mac Fanboi coming by and starting a conversation with something as polite as "So I see you couldn't afford a Mac.", with the same snobbish attitude if you were caught drinking instant coffee, or reading the free local weekly.

Fortunately, there is a distinct trend among these fanbois, where they'll save up to purchase their expensive toys, just to be a member of the Cult of the Apple (tm). In reality, they live in a sparsely decorated studio apartment, which they call "artistic", but in reality it is because they couldn't afford furniture. At least it doesn't matter much, they don't actually bring people to their homes very much, they prefer to congregate at places like Starfucks and Panera Bread in their adolescent attempts to attract those of the opposite sex, but all they really accomplish is to drink overpriced coffee while drooling on their overpriced toys.

It's very sad too. I was in the mall a couple weeks ago. There is a starbucks in this mall. As I walked by, I saw a guy waiting for his "super grande mocha guano cappuccino with extra whipped cream", with his laptop in hand as if cradling a baby. I had a few minutes to kill, so I stood outside waiting for the obvious humor to happen. He was busy tapping at maybe 10cps, so he couldn't have been actually doing much more than saying "look, I have a tablet, pay attention to me!". Sometimes the hate for runs deep. Deep enough for me to hang around to watch the fun. After 5 minutes, his cup of overpriced dirty water was ready. He did something that must have been choreographed by professionals and practiced. No amateur could possibly pull it off. The tablet started to slip, so he reacted by reaching for it with the coffee. Knowing the coffee would spill, he tried to save it. In a blur that would be best described as a Loony Toons Tasmanian Devil spinning with arms and legs flailing as he tried to save both of them.

Since this was apparently choreographed by Wile E. Coyote, he tripped and fell. The tablet hit the floor and the screen blinked off. The coffee landed just right so the lid popped off, and how he is the proud owner of a grande mocha guano cappuccino with extra whipped cream flavored tablet.

He did accomplish his wish. Everyone looked at him. It was really amazing. I wish someone had recorded it. If there were an Olympic game for such things, he'd l

Re:I doubt it.

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry, I didn't proof read that very well. Laptop in paragraph 5 should be iPad.

Re:I doubt it.

[ceoyoyo]

Reading (skip the e-book reader), including at home. Tablets are a more user friendly form factor (laptops are designed to be used sitting, not lounging, and are not usable at all when you're commuting by bus or subway).

Think of a tablet as a e-book reader that doesn't have an annoying flash every time you turn the page, plays games, gets your e-mail and can display decent graphics and colour diagrams. Tablets are a great device for people who want the freedom of a notebook for around the house but don't want to buy a notebook and ebook reader.

Re:I doubt it.

[ceoyoyo]

So 100% of what the average person would use a notebook for.

Re:I doubt it.

[EkriirkE]

Anything that didn't require much typing.

Re:I doubt it.

[ceoyoyo]

Even better. The average person doesn't do much typing most of the time, and probably should do even less.

Re:I doubt it.

[EvilIdler]

I see people finding uses for tablet computers, and it looks like e-readers are turning into tablet PCs. Read books, play music and even install custom software? Yep, it's beyond a mere e-book reader at that point. Larger screens and somewhat usable on-screen keyboards make them usable for note-taking on the go. I know of at least a handful of journalists (they are small people - many fit in one hand) who love the iPad because it's so much easier to pull out and start taking notes on.

I'm not terribly interested in one for just plain use, but once I get an iPad or something like it, I'll find ways to make it useful. I would also be unable to resist developing stuff for it (already just mucking about with never-released tools and toys for iOS).

Re:I doubt it.

[PhilipTheHermit]

That poor guy! Although half of me wishes I could have witnessed this spectacle, the other half is saying "ouch".

Maybe the moral is, "computers were not meant to be carried around coffee shops".

I bet this is why the old industrial tablets always had hand straps...

Pixel QI Screens

[captrb]

I almost don't care about the operating system of a tablet, as long as it is well supported, as I suspect that in the future many tablet applications with be HTML5-based. But I really really really care about the screen. I want a Pixel QI(OLPC) style screen that works in light emitting and non-emitting mode, so that it can be used as a normal tablet, as an e-reader, and viewed in full sunlight.

Year of the Tablet? Not even close.

[IndustrialComplex]

This is old news. The 5th Dimension called this years ago in their song when they sang,

'This is the dawning of the Age of the Archos.'

Hardware Requirements

[DarksideDaveOR]

I think I'll hold out for one that lets me play Civ V.

Re:Hardware Requirements

[demonbug]

Meh, Civ V isn't that great (in my extensive experience based on about half a game so far). If they've got Civ IV running I'd be happy. Still tablet-less, but happy.

Clarification

[Sonny Yatsen]

I'm talking about the hysteria going away, not the tablets themselves. I thought I made that clear, but apparently not.

It already is the year of the linux desktop

[Nursie]

and has been for several years.

Fact is it takes billions of dollars of advertising to change the way the masses use computers, and who really wants them anyway?

Re:It already is the year of the linux desktop

[davev2.0]

I can't tell if you are serious or being sardonic.

Re:It already is the year of the linux desktop

[0123456]

I can't tell if you are serious or being sardonic.

About which part? Linux has been a perfectly usable desktop OS for a couple of years; I don't even remember the last time I used Windows, because Linux now does pretty much everything I used to use Windows for... even playing most of my favorite Windows games.

Re:It already is the year of the linux desktop

[davev2.0]

But, Linux is not gaining any significant ground in Desktop adoption. While Linux may work well for everything YOU use it for, it does not follow that it works well for everything average users want, whether the issue capability, availability, ease of use, or something else.

It seems to me that there should be a large increase in the adoption of Linux by average desktop users in order for it to be "The Year of the Linux Desktop", and I don't see that happening.

Re:It already is the year of the linux desktop

[Nursie]

"While Linux may work well for everything YOU use it for, it does not follow that it works well for everything average users want, whether the issue capability, availability, ease of use, or something else."

Nor does it follow that lack of adoption is due to lack of ease of use, or functionality, or compatibility or anything else, when we know that (especially in an entrenched marketplace) it takes huge advertising budgets to get anything done.

Re:It already is the year of the linux desktop

[davev2.0]

In other words, it is not the fabled Year of the Linux Desktop.

Slashdot en espanol?

[damn_registrars]

I'm not sure how else to read the summary line of

all mayor hardware vendors of PCs and mobile devices

Serious question to tablet owners

[grasshoppa]

What are you using your tablet for? I have never understood what problem a tablet is trying to solve.

I could see if it was a replacement for something like a notebook ( which I carry around daily ), but current tablets don't do that; the input method is clunky and unwieldy, I can still work significantly faster on my plain old notebook with a pen than a tablet.

So what's it good for?

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[crunzh]

I use mine to watch video and surf on the train when commuting. Better at this than a netbook. Its instant on, good battery and easy to use when not have much space and a bumpy ride.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

So what's it good for?

A few years ago you weren't cool unless you had a Palm Pilot. Then you needed in iPhone to be cool. Now you need an iPad to be cool.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[zero0ne]

Enterprise system administrator here.

_IF_ we had wifi setup in our building I can see a HUGE use for this in my daily activities.

Update a ticket? use the tablet to update it while you are on the PC dong the work. without one, I usually forget by the end of the day as I just want to leave.

Need to re-image a PC using Altiris / KACE / OPSI / other home grown app? go to the site, log in, and queue up the jobs / tasks necessary for that asset.

Those are just the ones that come to my head.

Hell, regarding tickets / work done, you could create a area for the user to sign his name after you complete the work so that if they ever try to come back at you and say you didn't do it right or it was never completed, you have their sig right there!

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[alen]

don't have an ipad, but i've been thinking of going the desktop/ipad route. the last 10 years or so notebook sales have grown faster and outpaced desktop sales. a lot of consumers never take the laptop out of the house, like some people i know they just don't want to be tied down to the corner with the computer desk for their computing. if they want to surf the internet on the couch, they want to do so.

the iPad has around 80% of a laptop's functionality, nice lite casual gaming capabilities and if you have kids there are hundreds of good kid friendly apps in the app store. it's a lot easier to take the ipad with you instead of a laptop and if you have netflix you have access to a lot of media anywhere you go. and they even have board games coming to the iPad so you don't have to run to toys r us for them and have clutter at home. you can do it all on the ipad

same with business users. it's easier to carry around than a laptop and it has enough functionality to make people prefer it over the laptop

as an example years ago when i did helpdesk i liked the giant dell laptops with 17" screens, zip drives and a long list of cool specs. i bought them for my users and they hated them. they wanted something lighter and smaller to carry around even if it had a shorter list of specs.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[The Phantom Mensch]

Another use is for the business traveler stuck with a locked-down corporate laptop. After hours in the hotel room, why haul out the corporate laptop and deal with the limitations the IT department has imposed on it? Pack another 1 lb. device to play your movies, games and music on, and browse all the sketchy websites you want.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading ebooks (most of mine are DRM-free ones from O'Reilly), watching Netflix in bed, browsing my Google news feed via River of News, recording music "sketches" via the numerous audio apps and sequencers, browsing the web on the couch (touch is actually good for web consumption).

You're right though, text-based content creation/note-taking/sketching is not an ideal use for it (where notebooks - electronic or analog - are better).

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[lilo_booter]

Let's see... had an Ipad for a couple of weeks and so far - eBook reading (lights off in the bedroom, no problem at all - long train journey, just fine). Comic book reading (nice apps for buying content directly from the main US publishers). Watching video (on the fly conversion from my dvd rips and tv grabs). Browsing (restricted, but fine for checking forums and researching odds and ends). Navigation/GPS. Playing music. Entertaining the kids. Playing games. Catching up on the news.

Nothing really creative - it's a consumer device (pun intended). As a note taking device, I guess it would work, but it's not something I would use it for.

To be honest, I didn't hold many hopes for it before I bought it, but since I could justify it from a business/r&d point of view, I figured I'd give it a shot. No regrets so far - been more than pleasantly surprised by its capabilities.

Very interested to see what the flood of tablets coming will provide..

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

"What are you using your tablet for? I have never understood what problem a tablet is trying to solve."

Don't think of it as a "work" device. I'm not ever going to use mine to primarily do work on, though I do use it for reviewing large documents so I can read it in a more comfortable chair. I'm sure as hell not going to write code on it. I don't need it for Power Point and Excel. Again, it's that whole stereotype that people use PC's for business tasks, and Apple products for recreational/enjoyment purposes.

For me, it's a portable entertainment system, which also has the added benefit of allowing me to handle *some* light email and connectivity tasks. When I get on a plane for my next business trip, I will have a couple of dozen books, games, much of my music collection, a photo frame, about a dozen movies I've ripped from DVD, light access to email, and a bunch of utilities I use for some note-taking in the evening after I'm done the heavy lifting for the day and need to sort out where I'm at.

Business travel has always meant being stuck in hotel rooms with very little to do except work more or go to dinner. An iPad basically means I can flop into a comfy chair, surf the web, listen to music, read a book, watch a movie ... whatever. Find me a wi-fi hotspot, and I can log into my company VPN and check my email. I can log into my gmail and email friends and family.

Yes, it's somewhat expensive as a portable entertainment console. But, what it does offer me when I'm travelling (or just want to get away from my desk) is a form factor that lets me carry a lot of entertainment and a modest degree of utility.

Think outside the box. Not everything people do with computers is purely about "business tasks". There's lots of things we use computers for that a tablet is a really good fit for.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[JustinOpinion]

They certainly have uses. The iPad is nice for browsing the web while watching TV, for watching video or reading a book on a train or plane, for referring to a recipe website while cooking, etc. Now, many will argue "you can do all those things with a netbook or laptop" and it is certainly true. But the iPad weight and form factor (and battery life) increase the likelihood that you'll actually have it with you in these kinds of situations, which increases its utility.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure everyone would find an iPad at least somewhat useful. If iPads were dirt-cheap (say, $5) people would have one in every room of their house (and in their car, etc.). To me, the question is really: Is the iPad worth the asking price? Sure it's useful, but is it worth so much money for a rather limited device that sits inside a rather locked-down ecosystem. I think for the majority of people, the answer would be "no". It's only slightly more trouble to use a netbook, in which case you're getting much more bang for your buck. But for people with plenty of disposable income, the iPad is great. Yes, it's a luxury to have an expensive tablet just for random things like looking something up while watching TV... but so be it.

So, really, the iPad/tablet phenomenon is not solving a new problem per se. It's just a new (nicer) way to do existing things. Presumably the prices will drop to the point that it becomes "worth it" for more and more people.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[hoggoth]

I sit in my big swivel chair in the middle of the room looking at a giant projection screen at the front and have a pretty girl in a mini-skirt come up to me with an iPad to sign some workflow forms, all while I bark commands at my friends stationed around the perimeter of the room.

It doesn't get better than this.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

I use mine for commandments, replacing those stone things was a no brainer.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you using your tablet for? I have never understood what problem a tablet is trying to solve.

I could see if it was a replacement for something like a notebook ( which I carry around daily ), but current tablets don't do that; the input method is clunky and unwieldy, I can still work significantly faster on my plain old notebook with a pen than a tablet.

So what's it good for?

Clunkly and unwieldy? I'm not sure what tablet you've used in the past, but the only draw backs I know of from using tablets instead of paper are cost, thickness, and I'd rather read from paper than from a screen. Weight doesn't count as people normally write when sitting down at desks.

As a student, my Lenovo X61 Tablet and school scanner/printer replaced all my school supplies: books, paper, pens, binders, whole punchers, white out, erasers, etc... All I carried from class to class all day was my backpack with the tablet and power cable. I found PDF versions of almost all my textbooks. If you like jotting notes in your books or flipping through pages, find the software that lets you do it to those PDF files. It exists with many different variations.

Much of my homework and assignments were given to us online and expected to be turned in online too. For things that weren't, that's what a printer is for. My professors liked how I had all my work in one color and my final answers in another. Once in a while there were in-class handouts. These took no time to scan. I have all my class materials from my 2nd year through graduation in nicely organized computer folders. These all fit on a 32GB flash drive. Converted to paper, they would take up multiple filing cabinets and would be less accessible and less searchable (not that I ever plan to go through them again, but I can if I need to).

Physically, writing on a the tablet was like writing with a high quality pen on smooth paper. X61's screen is the same size of a piece of paper. Depending on the software, the entire screen looks like one too. It is almost exactly the same as writing on paper. However, you can write in different layers, colors, expand the 'paper' in any direction, drag a section of notes to another location to make more room in a certain spot, record lecture audio and have it linked with what you were writing at the same time (sadly, not available in Linux), convert the writing to text (but if you're taking notes for yourself, there's no reason to. One can normally read one's own handwriting), shrink the notes down and print them on a single page for an instant, handwritten cheat-sheet on the topic, and many, many more things. These are all things that existed years ago and are just getting better and better.

That's what tablets are for. The X61T was around $1,800 with a 3-year complete care warranty over 3 years ago. If the tablets you've used are clunkly and unwieldy, find a better one; they exist and are very useful, especially for college students.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[elrous0]

I use mine for impressing hipster girls at bars. Well, that and pretending to like their shitty emo music.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

"I can still work significantly faster"

Tablets aren't for work, they're for all the other things people do with computers besides work. For me, I have a big beefy laptop that I use to write code all day long, and then when I come home now, rather than sitting on the couch with that monster burning a hole through my pants, I do my reading and TV watching with my nice, cool iPad. I can read the internet, watch TV shows, and play video games in bed without worrying about blocking an exhaust port and melting the laptop. Just that temperature difference is enough to completely change the way I use computers.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

It sounds like you just proved the grandparent's point.

The only one that seems like its unique to a tablet is the last one (the user signing his name) and that certainly can't be done with an iPad (no pen input). All the others can be done cheaper/easier/more flexibly with a laptop or, if size is a concern, a netbook.

If you have to type a lot - like explaining the work you did to close the ticket - you probably don't want a tablet anyway. If you don't have to type much, you could probably get away with using a smartphone.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[SSpade]

It's great for (some sorts of) casual gaming. It's a decent media player.

It's superb for traveling and conferences - it's got a good web browser and mail client. And adequate IM/IRC (which'll get a lot better come November). It makes a decent ebook reader (not quite as good as a dedicated e-ink device, but better than anything else). And it has VPN and an ssh client, so I can even tunnel in to my production servers if I have an "Oh-shit" moment - usable with the on-screen keyboard, more so with the little bluetooth one I can leave in the hotel room unless I need it. And it'll do that over wifi, or in an emergency I can pay $15 and get cellular data without needing a contract. Runs all day on a single charge. And it has all my music on it too, and streaming netflix, so I'm not stuck watching crappy hotel TV late at night.

So it's not a replacement for a laptop, or even a netbook. But it's great for being the only thing I need to carry at a conference or on a plane - and it's half the weight of even an ultralight laptop/netbook, let alone the seven pound monstrosity that is my main laptop.

And having one around - it's very nice for other things too. Checking imdb while watching TV, having docs open while I'm working without having to use up laptop screen space for them.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm...how about:

* Checking email
* Surfing
* Watching videos
* Show pixs to friends and family
* Looking up stuff on IMDB while watching TV and movies
* Typing notes and ideas while on the go (you'd be surprised how fast you can type on an iPad after a couple of hours)
* Playing hundreds of different games
* Checking weather
* Drawing
* To Do List & Notes
* Reviewing and editing work docs (PDF and Word)
* Musical doodling (just for fun)
* Checking bank accounts & transactions

That's just what I do on a regular basis.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[dzfoo]

Zulu! I told you zillion times, get off my chair!!!

    -J.T.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[mathfeel]

For me, it is reading academic articles in PDF form and electronic copies of physics books in DJVU (Questionably legality, but I make it a point to only download books already sitting on my book shelf). Having the screen able to lie flat on my desk on which I can highlight and comment is important to me. Since I also run Mathematica, iPad is out of the question.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

So you've named two reasons and act like that's justification? Not to mention that it seems pretty unlikely that most tablets are going to have any means for a customer to write and readable sig. The iPad certainly won't do it.

Sounds like more hot air. Again, a solution looking for a problem. Modded insightful by the gadget crowd that has spent thousands of dollars on solutions that are now just fancy paper weights.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

Clipboard replacement.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

Porn.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[kestasjk]

The appeal is that, although it's not as good as a keyboard and mouse, it actually is much better than a keyboard and trackpad for most of things you do on the move:

• Handwriting recognition is actually really pretty good in Windows 7 once you're used to it. It's nothing like speech recognition, it lets you enter in text almost as fast as you can write (in half-decent hand)
• For a mouse replacement it's much better than a trackpad, where you feel like you're pushing the mouse around the screen on a postage stamp; instead you can just tap where you want to click
• For notes and sketches it's even better than mouse and keyboard, and those are often the sorts of things you want to do when you're moving around
• The screen being the input means it's more compact, it doesn't feel as awkward using it in a public place

You don't want to write e-mails in it and you definitely couldn't code/script with it, but for daily web-browsing/note-taking/messaging/news/drawings it's really great. (And for some people that's a big part of computing)
I think everyone will have one eventually, but they won't replace your main work PC

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[ToasterMonkey]

I could see if it was a replacement for something like a notebook ( which I carry around daily ), but current tablets don't do that; the input method is clunky and unwieldy, I can still work significantly faster on my plain old notebook with a pen than a tablet.

I can work significantly faster with a full sized keyboard and mouse, dictating my notes to a live person.

APAAAAARENTLY, there is this crazy trend towards mobile general purpose computing, and the lifetime of a device's battery is inversely proportional to the amount of time it is tethered to the wall. Who knows though, maybe people are evolving smaller hands.

No wonder companies compete so poorly against Apple. Everyone looks at the most obvious thing they to differently, and miss the bigger picture. Their sales are driven by shallow things, brand recognition, flashy advertising, awesome sounding words, but then they actually surprise their users with duh duh daaaaaah, a great experience, and it's all a big mystery as to what they did right. Wow. What an idea.. say just enough marketing BS to get it sold, then _actually_ give the user things they wanted (as opposed to overselling CRAP), and nobody figures the secret out. "... it just works ..." As long as they keep doing whatever makes it good, and not telling anybody exactly what that is, they could do this forever. Competitors look at what they "sell" and say "pfft, that's easy", instead of looking at what the users _get_.

Damn, it's almost like how you sell Open Source by giving it away... or maybe I'm wrong and the world is full of software developers, who knows.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

A smartphone? Screen is too small.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Stormie]

What are you using your tablet for?

I don't have one, but (working in a web development agency) both my managers have work-supplied iPads, and they are fantastic for client meetings. A small, light device that can be taken to whichever meeting room we might end up in, connect to the office wireless network, and be used as a web browser that can be passed around the table, as well as quick access to emails - that's very valuable.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[zero0ne]

How many people when resolving the average IT ticket puts down more than a sentence or two?

most of the time the issue is the PC needs to be restarted, plugged back into the network, or equally trivial.

Signing could be done easily with the users finger? (doable on the iPad? I personally don't have one)

If you design your software with a tablet in mind, it can fill a huge void for the IT workforce. Take OPSI for instance. Take the core and build a UI designed around usage on a tablet, and you would have some pretty slick software for imaging / license / asset management.

the Tablet may not actually help you complete tickets / change requests / etc, however I think I would see the biggest benefit in increasing visibility of the IT group. Instead of relaxing in your office all day working on it remotely, you are now walking around and every one sees a productive IT employee instead of well, someone just in an office doing who knows what.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Haedrian]

Its basically a larger version of a non-phoning smartphone.

Good for viewing images, video and text, basic internet browsing with horrible text input - and very portable.

Useful if you're not doing anything serious. Crappy if you're taking notes during a lecture or trying to comment on /.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Lasers were another solution looking for a problem. In the end, it turns out that it solved a lot of problems. The iPad (and similar tablets) will be the same. People with no vision will wonder what use such a device will have, but 5 years from now, people will wonder how they ever got by without them.

Re:Serious question to tablet owners

[Anonymous Coward]

Enterprise system administrator here.

_IF_ we had wifi setup in our building I can see a HUGE use for this in my daily activities.

I do hope you realize the reason why you don't want wifi access in a data center.

Chief of Network Security

Year of the X

[koterica]

Can 2012 be the year of the not-saying-"the year of the ___"-anymore? Please?

Re:Year of the X

[Anonymous Coward]

This is actually a quote from Steve Ballmer, upon realizing how far out of the race MS has fallen in the mobile markets.

Re:Year of the X

[ModernGeek]

I'd rather that it be 2010.

Re:Year of the X

[EkriirkE]

2012 is already the year of the Apocalypse. Therefore, 2013 will not be a year of anything.

Re:Year of the X

[uncanny]

it doesnt matter anyways, remember, 2012 is the "year of the end of the world"

Re:Year of the X

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

To late... After 2012 being the year of the Apocalypse, 2013 will of course be the year of Linux on the desktop.

2011, Year of the Tablet?

[StikyPad]

No.

post-PC era

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablets are actually considered an important up and coming form factor by most hardware vendors; everybody who is anybody has one in the works now.

The higher level thing though is that with the rise of mobile computing, iPhones and iPads and other vendors versions of those, more and more computing will be done on such mobile platforms and less and less importance will be for traditional desktop PCs. Why have a heavy bulky computer tied down to one fixed place in your house, when you can be on the move, use your computer anywhere and everywhere you happen to be? From a coffee shop to waiting for the bus or between classes? People no longer want to be so limited as desktop form factor PCs do.

The smart folks now are preparing for this world, because do not mistake it, it *is* coming. The less than smart ones are denying it'll happen, just like they denied that 68000 based workstations would fall to x86 PCs a long time ago, because they had a personal investment in those workstations and were afraid of change. But it's going to happen even over those people's objections. Just wait and watch.

4 million my ass

[Wingsy]

Yes, with 3 millions sold from Apr 3 to June 22 (80 days), I'd say they've sold over 4 million. Hey TacoBell, why low-ball it? Why not treat it like a new flavor of bubble gum and give it your best UNbiased guess?

A smaller version of the iPad?

[EmagGeek]

Isn't that just an iPod? Or has Steve Jobs finally figured out that he can churn out a new product every 6 months, regardless of its applicability or usefulness, and the drones will buy it?

Re:A smaller version of the iPad?

[zn0k]

Alternatively blogs have figured out they can drive ad sales and clicks by randomly speculating about products Apple could potentially release.

Nope.

[cain]

2011, Year of the Tablet?

Nope.

2011?

[jonathanledlie]

How about 2010, the year of the tablet? There is still plenty of 2010 remaining, including Xmas season.

2021

[nazsco]

i can foresee /. headline for the next 10 years.

"2012: is this the year of linux on the desktop tablet?" ...
"2021: is this the year of linux on the desktop tablet?"

Re:2021

[c0lo]

Given that Android is a Linux derivative, I guess you are utterly wrong.

Seriously, skip TFA

[Anonymous Coward]

Word count: 717
"could": used 6 times
"probably": used 4 times
"buzz": used 3 times

-writer's "analysts" are unsourced
-writer says specs based on "serious speculation" (what?)
-writing is awful, roughly eighth grade quality (I could cite a dozen examples off the top of my head, but just take my word for it.)

Re:Seriously, skip TFA

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to the Facebook generation. You're just lucky the entire article wasn't full of LOLs and ASCII smiley faces.

iPad Mini... or Nano?!

[e065c8515d206cb0e190]

And if you actually make it really tiny, you could call it the iPad Shuffle

Re:iPad Mini... or Nano?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course the word processor would open up random documents rather than the one you wanted.

No, Apple is not

[SuperKendall]

I know some people have tried to spread the RUMOR that Apple is making a 7" tablet, but I just don't see it happing. Size is too weird being in-beteen the current iPad and the Touch.

Frankly to me a 7" tablet makes no sense. Part of what makes the iPad really nice to read or browse is the size. What makes the iPod Touch and iPhone so nice is portability.

A 7" tablet is what you make when you get engineers driving specs: "Well how can we make it priced around the iPad with quality parts", or "How to we make it light enough to hold for a long time". Rather than thinking about how easy the final result is to use they optimize for cost or weight without thinking how it will really effect people using the device.

The iPad optimized for readability and features, the Kindle optimized (very well) for long term use and dedication to reading. The smaller tablets coming out (including the Samsung), I just don't know how they will fare.

If anyone will succeed at all it would be Samsung, they are the ones to watch for sure.

Re:No, Apple is not

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

After looking at the iPad for 5 minutes I decided it was exactly the wrong size. Too big to watch movies on the train too work. Too small to do any serious work on. If it were 7" I would have bought it on the spot.
In fact I bought a 7" android tablet. Unfortunately it is a POS running Android 1.6 which I feel is just not ready for prime time.
Someone will be getting my tablet budget next year, the only thing as yet undecided is who. I am still hoping for a 7" tablet with android 3.0 and a built in GPS, for around $300

Re:No, Apple is not

[SuperKendall]

It's not at all too big to watch movies on, I think it's the perfect size for plane or train. Not so big as to be a distraction to those nearby, but plenty big enough to get a good view.

I'm really not sure you are going to find a 7" tablet you are happy with for $300.

Re:No, Apple is not

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Too big to watch movies on the train? Too small for me, if anything. I manage to use the iPad just fine on a packed commuter train. Certainly easier to use than a netbook.

Does transitivity hold?

[bobdotorg]

If I put Linux on my tablet.

And put my tablet on the desktop.

Would that make 2011 the year of Linux on the desktop?

Re:Does transitivity hold?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux on the desktop came years ago when I used a Linux guidebook as a mousepad.

What am I missing?

[DoofusOfDeath]

I'm not the most cutting-edge guy, but I really don't understand what tablets are good for.

Can anyone explain?

Getac E100

[flyingfsck]

Here you go: www.getac.com It is not solar powered, but it is direct sunlight readable and rugged.

Re:Getac E100

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

I don't want to read in direct sunlight, I want to read without having to strain at a bright screen. Perhaps I should have specified e-ink.

I've seen exactly one ipad in the wild

[Anonymous Coward]

And it was a girl that worked at an Apple store.

I played with it, it was fairly nifty. Like an iphone that can't fit in your pocket. I could see it being useful for UPS drivers or meter maids or something similar, but I couldn't imagine ever carrying one around full time just because.

I see non-stop hype for ipads in Wired, and I saw that story about a school giving them away in Australia to their students, but otherwise who is buying these?

Mixed feelings

[zorro-z]

On one hand, the iPad has been an unqualified success, and Android, other linux, and Windows successors are said to be arriving shortly. On the other hand, part of me wonders how much of the iPad's success was simply due to Apple hype. Had, say, Dell released the exact same hardware, but w/o the Apple imprimatur or OS, would it have sold as well? I rather suspect not.

It me that, like desktop linux and the monorail, the tablet computer is the wave of the future- always has been, always will be.

Re:Mixed feelings

[zorro-z]

Before anyone comments, I know that the iPad OS was a big part of its success.

Yes they do

[SuperKendall]

I could see if it was a replacement for something like a notebook ( which I carry around daily ), but current tablets don't do that; the input method is clunky and unwieldy

I had no problems typing notes on an iPad at a conference. It's much easier to type on them directly than you seem to think.

Tablets are great for travel, much lighter and better battery life. They are also good for more casual use around the house, like quickly looking up things or in the kitchen.

Re:Yes they do

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Same here. I got the Apple case that folds into a stand. I've been surprised at how fast I can type on it, and it should get a bit faster once I'm used to it. It will never be as good as a traditional keyboard, of course, but it's more than enough for typing out a couple of paragraphs here and there.

A Mayor Hardware Vendor

[Infonaut]

If you're the mayor of El Paso, your hardware vendor is Colt's Manufacturing Company, manufacturer of the M-4 carbine.

There are some things to work out yet...

[rickb928]

The current designs really don't impress me yet. How about:

- Solving the input problem. Virtual keyboards are virtually awful. Maybe integrate a snap-on BT keyboard?

- Easy to use on the couch? Have you tried it? Will someone make Chumby-style beanbag 'covers' for tablets? If only they had a cupholder, perfect! :)

- Screen size is in opposition to portability. Show me the folding or pull-out screen, something like a windowshade. Is this technology anywhweres near production? Well, I guess I'll be waiting a while.

Maybe Google Phone will suffice for now, maybe, but I'm not really looking for a tablet that makes calls over the cell network. It seems people think that having a 3G card in their means it SHOULD make calls. I got a phone. Lugging a tablet around in place of a tablet AND phone will not happen.

Re:There are some things to work out yet...

[ceoyoyo]

"Solving the input problem. Virtual keyboards are virtually awful. Maybe integrate a snap-on BT keyboard?"

The iPad will work with pretty much any bluetooth keyboard you care to use. If you buy the adapter it will also work with many USB keyboards.

"Easy to use on the couch? Have you tried it? Will someone make Chumby-style beanbag 'covers' for tablets? If only they had a cupholder, perfect!"

Yes, yes, and I'm pretty sure someone already does.

"Screen size is in opposition to portability. Show me the folding or pull-out screen, something like a windowshade. Is this technology anywhweres near production? Well, I guess I'll be waiting a while."

No. Yes, I guess you will. Meanwhile the rest of the world will be enjoying their tablets that are the oppressive surface area of a sheet of paper.

Re:There are some things to work out yet...

[geminidomino]

Form-factor wise, you've just described a netbook.

Re:There are some things to work out yet...

[rickb928]

Give it to me without a hinge. Oh, except for the detachable keyboard.

Wait, it's a Lenovo S10-3t.

No, it's a Lenovo IdeaPad U1.

Wait, I'm so confused...

No I'm not. The U1 is interesting. Just give me an iPad with an attachable keyboard. The S10-3t (doesn't that remind you of the XR4Ti?) is very close. I need a little more screen...

Re:There are some things to work out yet...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Screen size is in opposition to portability. Show me the folding or pull-out screen, something like a windowshade. Is this technology anywhweres near production? Well, I guess I'll be waiting a while.

Not exactly. The iPad is thin and light. It can easily live in my backpack without taking up much space, despite having a 9.7" display.

Larger version of I-Pad

[darth_borehd]

I heard apple is coming out with a larger version of the I-Pad as well. The Max-I-Pad.

Android better have a non-contract tablet

[rsborg]

If Android is going to really "flood the market" with tablets, it better revise it's decision to require a carrier contract to allow Market access. What use is a tablet that doesn't have the biggest storefront available for that OS? There's no way they're going to compete with Apple on price if they require contracts... I already have a contract for my smartphone, I can't afford a 2nd one just for data on a non-primary device.

Year of Sucker Customers

[Anomalyx]

It's both funny and quite saddening when people own an iPhone, iPod touch, AND iPad... They basically bought the same expensive device 3 times with small variations. As soon as they release a new size of iPad (if they do) there will be some people with 4 of the same expensive device with small variations.
iPhone and iPod touch are basically the same device, with the difference of being on a cellular network (note my use of the word "basically". I do not mean "exactly"). The function of these can be easily combined into just the iPhone. I prefer Android myself, due to the whole openness thing (I can actually write my own app and put it on my own phone without having to get approved by some corporation), but I'll let this one slide.
iPad I think is more like an iFad. What can it do that my laptop can't? Touch. That's about it. I don't care for touch; I loathe smudgy screens and I'm perfectly accustomed to a touchpad or mouse. People like the instant-on; yeah, my laptop does that too: sleep mode. I don't even need to start listing the things a laptop can do that an iPad can't. So to summarize, I think the iPad is like buying one car to go to work in and a second car to go to the grocery store in; all of its functionality is duplicate to something you already have. I don't care if you use one; you're free to spend your money on whatever you please, but I'll save my $X00 and buy something that has a higher added-function-to-my-life to cost ratio.

cause froyo is a tablet OS...

[JesseDegenerate]

With Google admitting Froyo is a phone OS, and pretty bad in the tablet area, and there being no 3rd party apps to take advantage of the new screen size, so i don't really see android taking off (at least with 2.2) as the future of tablet computing. Apple's setup did there customers much more service in terms of 3rd party apps for tablets. Add that to the fact that Apple seems to be the cheapest option (with no contract) And i'm not so sure how this will play out for android. tablets are only as useful as their appstores are beyond a certain point. i got a lol out of "superkendall" though. Samsung gets trashed on a regular basis for it's android UI's.

Because it fits IN a notebook!

[hellfire]

A traditional laptop basically requires you to unfold the setup, and sometimes plug in peripherals depending on if you like trackpoints or trackpads or neither (I personally hate both, traditional mice for me). An iPad requires you to hit the screen power button and viola, it's on and everything is there you need. I'm directly interacting with the electronic book page or web page. The motions feel nature and are easy to learn.

Also an iPad is more about getting information and content out, not putting information in. Touch screens work fine for writing short specific messages. Keyboards will be better input devices until touchscreens become as accurate and fast as keyboards, and some people even buy keyboards for their iPad. And even if you did have a physical keyboard, you could just whip out the iPad and check the scores or read the news without it so many times it's optional.

With an iPad you are getting an extra level of physical convenience that is quite real. If that's not for you that's fine, it's not meant for everyone. Tablets are suddenly the en vogue because when the iPad was first released, all the other tech companies said "me too!" Now these same companies are saying "shit we are losing laptop sales, we better get our asses moving." I can't speak to say if other tablets will offer a total package that is useful and competitive with the iPad. Right now we can only say what the iPad does vs everything else.

Apple offers more than red and blue

[perpenso]

Apple is coming out with a easy to swallow capsule.

Red or Blue??

Silver, charcoal, purple, blue, green, yellow, orange, red and pink. ;-)

Re:Apple offers more than red and blue

[BarryJacobsen]

Apple is coming out with a easy to swallow capsule.

Red or Blue??

Silver, charcoal, purple, blue, green, yellow, orange, red and pink. ;-)

I think you mean Chrome, Charcoal, Grape, Blueberry, Lime, Lemon, Tangerine, Rose, and Bubblegum.

history?

[dazedNconfuzed]

then they'll be gone like Betamax.

Yeah, just like that faddish "mouse" idea Jobs got from Xerox, or that overpriced dysfunctional "computer" he and a buddy hacked up in their garage. Delusions of grandeur and crazy out-of-the-box designs left him a pauper ... no, wait, that's right, he's a multi-billionaire whose garage-startup is one of the most valuable companies in the world. Huh.

Some answers:

[sean.peters]

Some of this is solved, some not:

• Input: you can get a bluetooth keyboard for iPad, which pretty much takes care of your input issue. But really, most people are using these things for web browsing, iOS game playing (which are optimized for touch screen interface), light e-mail, etc, etc... and don't really need anything but the soft keyboard.
• On the couch: there are some iPad covers that double as stands. Not sure how well these work, but there's at least some effort going into the "how do I hold this thing?" problem.
• Screen size: Folding/pull out screens are not anywhere near ready for prime time. You're right, this would really be a nice feature.

A lot of folks have expressed some doubt as to what they'd do with an iPad-like device, and yeah, I'm with you there. I already have an iPhone and a laptop, and while I can sort of see the attraction in something with a bigger screen than the phone but with the instant bootup and portability that the laptop lacks... ultimately, I can't see spending the money. But there are a few use cases where this kind of thing really shines: 1) on the train. If you commute to work, it would be a lot easier to check e-mail, read a book, listen to music, play a game, whatever, on one of these, than to get out and fire up the laptop. 2) e-reader++. If you are considering a Kindle, but want to be able to do more with it than just read books (and you don't read outside a lot), this would be a pretty useful device.

Huge success? Really?

[erroneus]

I think it is too early to call them a huge success. The Yugo, by this standard, was a huge success of a car. After all, a lot of people bought them and at one time, there was a LOT of them on the road.

Before we start calling this a success, we should wait to see if people are still using them in another year... or a couple more years. A successful product is one, like the palm pilot. That gadget was wildly successful. It was in many pockets, briefcases and hands for a very long time... some people are still using theirs. (Personally, I didn't think it would catch on...I was wrong)

So far, I know three iPad owners. Of those three, exactly 0 of them are still carrying it around with them. That's right. They carried them around for about a month before I no longer notice them carrying it. Do they still play with it? Maybe... maybe at home. They certainly don't bring it to work with them any longer. That sampling is certainly not large enough to establish a trend, but it is certainly within my expectations.

Overblown? not.

[dazedNconfuzed]

n Q2 2010, PC makers shipped a combined 82.5 million devices.

Apple said it sold 3.27 million iPads in Q2.

That's 4% of the market - for a single "it sucks, it's gonna go nowhere" radical new product out of the starting gate, that's awesome.

Tablet is good wherever a web interface is good

[perpenso]

What are you using your tablet for? I have never understood what problem a tablet is trying to solve ... So what's it good for?

I think a tablet could be good for most applications where a web interface could be good.

For example I had an eye exam recently. The assistant had to walk away from myself and her various apparatus to go to her desk, ask me the standard battery of background questions, and then enter the responses into the HMO's system via a web interface. We had a chat about this and she mentioned that she would have loved to have done the Q&A on a tablet. She felt she would be more efficient staying with the apparatus and offered a friendlier and more courteous customer experience by not having to walk across the room and turn her back on me in order to use the computer.

It was many years ago but I had an insurance adjuster inspect the damage to my car and use a custom cellular based tablet to create a repair estimate.

I believe these and other serious applications are better fits for tablets than netbooks.

Give me one I can use out doors

[Shivetya]

I don't care if it is the same size or not, but when trying both an iPad and Kindle outside its laughable.

The first company to deliver a e-paper quality screen in color is going to rake in the money.

I want a tablet that a) I can use in all lighting conditions, but will accept needing a light source b) will not be horribly put out money wise if I drop it/it walks

Serious answer

[dazedNconfuzed]

1.5 pounds, smaller than a sheet of paper, no unfolding & setup, instant on, always connected. What's not to solve?

Key thing most miss: it's not an outright computer replacement. It gives you about 80% of what you need a computer for, anywhere anytime. You don't have to drag around the mass storage, bulky input devices, larger screen, etc. you need for about 20% of your use. To the contrary, by putting 80% of what you do on a tiny superduperportable tablet, you're freed to leave a big bulky powerhouse computer behind, rather than trying to cram everything into a compromise notebook shell.

Re:Serious answer

[natehoy]

Car analogy:

For my own personal use, I own two road-inspected vehicles. A car and a pickup truck.

The car is my tablet - it gets me where I need to go cheaply and comfortably when it's only me (or me and my family or carpooler) and I need to get somewhere with a modest amount of stuff. Technically, I really don't NEED a car. I could drive the truck. But the car gets 50MPG to the truck's 15MPG, it's long-since paid for, and it's cheaper to maintain. So even with annual inspection and taxes and whatnot having the car saves me money. Not a whole lot, but some.

The truck is my netbook/laptop. It gets work done. I have a very long driveway, and live in snow country. The truck is my plow truck. It's also my "go get a half ton of gravel to fix the driveway" truck, my "drive out the 14 miles of logging road to the Appalachian Trail to do maintenance" truck, and my "wife just bought a new piece of furniture and I need to go pick it up" truck, or my "the roads really suck but I still need to get to work" truck. I use it for some practical purpose about once every two weeks. 13 out of those 14 days, I wonder why I have a truck. That one day, I wonder what I'd ever do without one.

If I absolutely had to choose one, it would be the truck. I need it. But the car serves certain purposes better than the truck does, and in my case it's (ever so slightly) cheaper to have both.

Both have four wheels, and can transport me where I need to go. They are as similar to each other as a netbook and a tablet. But the differences are very important.

Similarly, with computing devices, if I had to choose one, it'd have to be a "real" computer. It's not that I type so terribly much more than I consume content, it's that if I was forced to one device it'd have to be something that can do EVERYTHING I want to do, not because it's the absolute best tool for everything.

At home, I have an iPod Touch for checking Facebook and the weather and reading RSS and surfing YouTube, and a real desktop computer for watching TV and doing computer-y things that need more screen space and/or lots of data entry.

Re:Serious answer

[cowscows]

That is a good car analogy. Well done.

Re:Serious answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a Star Trek episode.

Don' need no steenkin badges

[tekrat]

Mayor hardware vendor?

Seriously though... Everyone cranking out a tablet is a MAJOR FAIL. Everyone who wanted a tablet has already bought the iPad. How are all those eBook readers doing in sales? I mean, aside from the market leader, Amazon, with the Kindle.

I saw Sony marketing not one, but three different eBook readers at CES in January, and nearly every other "mayor" hardware vendor also had one, Toshiba, Samsung, etc., and I pointed out to my friend at the show that the market was going to be oversaturated because everyone had jumped on this sinking ship.

So, find out how those sales are, and you'll get a pretty good indication of where the Tablet market is headed. My prediction: Oversaturation leading to a sinking ship.

I'm also reminded of all those failed "internet appliances" like the Audrey, where, in 10 years, we'll look at those tablets as a strange curiosity and wonder whatever convinced CEOs to make these god-awful devices that nobody wanted.

Get out more

[dazedNconfuzed]

I've seen a half-dozen in the mall food court alone lately.
At least two friends have bought theirs within days of seeing mine.

parent post is not funny...

[Anonymous Coward]

why is the parent modded funny....Android is Linux.

Mod parent insightful

[tekrat]

He correctly identified a successful product, the Palm Pilot, that survived well over a decade with few changes to the base architecture, and he identified a product that sold well, the Yugo, but was deemed a failure after people actually tried to use it past the warranty period.

Re:Huge success? Really?

[Paracelcus]

A "LOT" of Yugo's? Where do you live? Here in northern California I have yet to notice one!

I want a replacement for a paper notebook.

[maillemaker]

I want a replacement for a paper notebook. I do lots of engineering studies, where a keyboard is not practical for input. I would like to be able to write with a stylus on a virtual notebook. Such a device as this would allow me to store all my notebooks as a single notebook. In addition, it should be able to store electronic versions of my textbooks (which I acquire either legitimately, illegitimately, or by scanning the text myself).

Other functionality, such as wireless capability, would be a nice option to have, but I do not want to buy such a device only on condition of a service agreement of any kind.

Such a device should cost less than $500.

Serious question for stocking users?

[beh]

What are you using stockings for? I (a guy) have never understood what problem a pair of stockings is trying to solve. A good looking pair of women's legs looks great without them.

Sorry - if that seemed a bit off topic, but I hope it will show you that if there if a thing that doesn't solve a problem for you, then don't go out looking for a problem to fit the thing; just don't buy the thing. Period.

That said - personally, I am an iPad user - one who actually stood in a queue for one the day it was released here. For ME it solves the "problem" to have a device I can read (mostly tech/business type) books on, but also run apps, like mind mapping tools.

A Kindle would be better for the former, but can't do the latter.

A laptop could do both, but really - commuting to work on public transport, I can read on the iPad, I wouldn't really be able to read on a laptop.

Your mileage will vary on this one. If you were in a similar situation, you might have come to the conclusion that the iPad would be the tool for you as well. As it stands, if it doesn't solve an obvious need in your life - don't buy it - but don't bitch about it either -- there are myriads of things out there which I guess you don't use either - but for which you don't feel the need to let slashdot know, that you just personally do not have a use for, like, say: citrine icosahedrons, a cd of central pennsylvania marriages 1700-1896, a brass duck sitting un umbrella (all random items of ebay).

To sum up: If you can't see a use for Funny Novelty Pirate Print Toilet Paper - just plain don't buy it.

Re:Huge success? Really?

[erroneus]

There WERE a lot of Yugo cars... not any more. That was my point. They were a huge hit upon introduction. But when people started using them, they realized they were crap and people stopped buying them. It would be interesting to see one on the road today, but "in their day" (which was about how long they lasted) there were lots of them... and in Northern California as a matter of fact. Around that time, I was in the Navy stationed at Mare Island in the San Francisco area. Car dealers were really pushing those Yugo cars! One was painted up all nice and had air conditioning and they wanted like $10,000 for it. I was young and naive, but not THAT naive. The whole point of the Yugo was to be inexpensive and here they were selling one for $10k? In the early 1990's? I know military people are gullible and easily persuaded, but sheesh! That was ridiculous.

Why you hatin'?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablets will replace books in the future and if you think your great-great-grandkids are going to be reading paper books anywhere other than on an archeological dig, then you shouldn't be on a website for nerds. Either Slashdot has been infiltrated by Neo-Luddites or ya'll be hatin' because Apple came out with the best (and so far only successful) tablet computer and did it in a smart way that integrates nicely with everything their cool phone does and integrates with the biggest online music store and they have deals with all the major content providers so it can encompass ALL traditional media all in one handy device with a battery that lasts all day.

Under 8 inches would match retina display use

[perpenso]

Part of what makes the iPad really nice to read or browse is the size. What makes the iPod Touch and iPhone so nice is portability.

I somewhat agree. I much prefer using the Kindle app on an iPad compared to an iPhone. However using a higher resolution screen would partly offset a size reduction and perhaps maintain readability.

iPad: 1024-by-768-pixel resolution at 132 pixels per inch (ppi), 9.7-inch (diagonal)
iPhone 3GS: 480-by-320-pixel resolution at 163 ppi, 3.5-inch (diagonal)
iPhone 4: 960-by-640-pixel resolution at 326 ppi, 3.5-inch (diagonal)

If we use a screen comparable (wrt ppi) to the one in the 3GS we get a diagonal size of about 7.85 inches. Similar dimensions if we double the resolution and use a display comparable to the iPhone 4. Seeing the iPad go to under 8 inches seems highly plausible. Now having this occur in November, that is a bit less likely. I'd be surprised if retina displays could be manufactured at 2048-by-1536 in large enough volumes. If it happens in November I'd expect the 3GS type display.

Too specific

[SuperKendall]

The first company to deliver a e-paper quality screen in color is going to rake in the money.

I think such a device will always be more niche than an LCD, because eInk is never going to be a very good video experience. It can be great for reading (though I find the current eInk devices offer too low contrast for my reading pleasure, but others like them) but for most other uses it falls flat - and is not touchscreen either...

So I think Kindles and iPads will both continue to do well, and a color Kindle will helm out Amazon but not really hurt iPad sales.

I want a tablet that a) I can use in all lighting conditions

I can use the iPad outside, though I'd prefer not to. But an LCD is great in most conditions people will find themselves using a table. A readable screen outdoors is probably more important for something like a phone that you would use outside more, which is why between that and the color I don't like AMOLED as they are being used in phones.

iPad not the only Apple tablet, just the largest

[snowwrestler]

Apple says over 120 million "iOS" (formerly iPhone OS) devices have shipped since the iPhone introduction in 2007. Every one is a tablet computer. The iPad just happens to be the largest.

i appreciate two things right now:

[drolli]

-i can buy a net/notebook with roughly the same computational power as last year but lower price, size, and energy comsumption (meaning battery lifetimes for acceptable price finally started to increase seriously!)

-i can buy devices in all form factors with extremely small size, small computational power, but enough to make a drawing or a text. i find the choice we have now have extremely nice.

However: i wont buy a tablet without and electromagnetic digitizer.

You can annotate PDF's on the iPad

[SuperKendall]

Why can the iPad not have either of the apps you mention?

It already has one - you can annotate PDF's with multiple third party apps:

http://ipad4edu.com/questions/47/can-i-annotate-pdfs-on-the-ipad

What you don't realize is the SDK includes great PDF support, that allows you to generate and work with PDF files very easily from any iOS app. Also with the iPad onward, you could register applications to handle specific file tpye.s

Microsoft One Note is just a matter of someone writing it (which of course is no small matter, but you said it's something the iPad "cannot have")

More than amusement

[Anonymous Coward]

Others enumerated the more amusing aspects (surfing, Netflix, etc.).

My excuse for getting one, and ongoing need:
I teach part time. Between a full time job plus teaching four nights a week I was faced with very little spare time to squeeze in grading, emails, and extensive online components of the course; professional activities which required frequent short-term attention. With the iPad, I can do those things in whatever five-minute schedule gaps I had. The device is easy to have around anywhere anytime (lunch, waiting for someone, breakfast, family tv viewing, fatherly 3am wakings) and so I can keep up with my students. With cloud-based tools like file sharing (Dropbox) and application virtualization (Citrix Xen) I can even test compile & run programming assignment submissions with MS Visual Studio anywhere anytime with the iPad.

Of course I could do similar with a notebook. I did. It sucked. Hunting around for a wifi connection outside my main workplace or wherever I happened to be, having to sit down and unfold the notebook and wait for it to wake up, hauling around the 3+ lb notebook and power cables (lousy battery life), debating whether a $60/mo 3G dongle was worth it (not at that price and contract term), etc. - doable, yet just lousy enough to drag down the effort. Too easy to not bother, too easy to just put things off.

The iPad crosses the critical line. It's tiny. It's always handy. It's big enough to use (iPod Touch wasn't). It's always connected. Short of those few times when I really do need a decked out computer, I can do anything I need to on a moment's notice. Click, swipe, tap, email checked - even at a traffic light. And it's big enough, unlike the iPhone.

Bought it the day the 3G came out. Carried my butt thru those four-nights-a-week sessions, and so paid for itself. When you have a business need for a computer RIGHT NOW (or enough of those moments), it can save or make it's price quick. The iPad is not just a toy, it is a business tool (like any, not for all) and a life tool.

Let me write on it, damnit!

[kharchenko]

I am still waiting for a tablet with a real stylus support on which I could take notes, doodle, markup, etc. Unless all you do is consume information, this is absolutely essential. All the upcoming tables just strive to be iPad copies. Jobs declared stylus to be a fail and everyone just takes that for the absolute truth. Doesn't anyone has the balls to innovate any more? MS, who makes excellent OneNote, has already shown that it can't lead and nixed Courier. IBM doesn't make consumer shit anymore, HP is too busy giving millions to asshat executives, and Google already has a million other projects to work on.

Sorry, but...

[mcgrew]

2012 is the year of my retirement eligibility, AND the year the Mayan calendar comes to an end.

Where are the exciting new netbooks?

[Zobeid]

I thought by now we'd all be using ARM-based netbooks (or smartbooks, if you insist) with Pixel Qi displays. Everyone said the technology was coming, but it's getting upwards of two years now since this stuff was promised. NVidia is already cranking out Tegra 2 chips and working on Tegra 3. Pixel Qi displays are in production. There are plenty of netbook-optimized Linux distros now, and there is Linux support for ARM. They components seem to all be in place. So. . . What's the hold up? Where are the goods?

All I'm seeing in netbooks are basically the same Wintel machines with the same specs as last year, or updates so timid that they make my eyes glaze over.

So who's going to give a machine not locked down?

[Sark666]

The smart phone market to me are really just small computers that focus on communication. But it's not the computer world we know and love as it is with desktops/laptops. No, this is a locked down world, where environments are fenced in, isps trying to provide 'added value' services instead of just giving me the wireless fat pipe I want. What's happening with phones seems to be happening with the tablets as well.

I thought it was google to the rescue with droid, but the manufacturers lock their devices down as well. I want a device where I'm free to install what I want on it, free to try and another os if it exists and free to get root access to the machine. It's a computer god damn it, with just another means of interfacing (touch vs keyboard mouse).

Look at the mentality out there. I just started googling before finishing my comment and started reading about the EVO HTC (a 4g droid phone) I'm watching a reivew on utube and he says 'one of the great things about the hotspot is it's only 29.99 a month' WTF? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Making your own hotspot (tethering as they call it) is just an app. you are already paying for your net access. If I want to pipe it to my laptop, let me and charge me. Don't charge me a second time! At most, I can see a cost for the app if the phone doesn't have this functionality but it's not a service!! Sigh. It's stuff like this that makes not want to get a smart phone. Hoping the tablet market is different.

Re:iPad not the only Apple tablet, just the larges

[Albanach]

Nokia sell that many smart phones in seven months.

Re:Huge success? Really?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

You predicted that the Palm Pilot wouldn't catch on, so that suggests you will be wrong about the iPad. That sampling is certainly not large enough to establish a trend, either, but it is certainly within my expectations.

Re:Huge success? Really?

[erroneus]

Your logic is broken. It only suggests I might be wrong, not that I will be.

Re:Huge success? Really?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Well, ignoring that I did only suggest it, why don't you think it will be a success?

Re:Huge success? Really?

[erroneus]

1. It is a device dependant on other devices. (That didn't stop the palm pilot though it had a certain level of independence as it could sync with other palms)
2. It is limited to a subset of the experience that users have come to expect from the internet. (People like gains and dislike losses -- that is essential animal psychology)
3. It is too big.
4. It has almost no expansion capability so it is all it will ever be. And at its current price, most people will not be able to justify spending it all over again when an upgrade version comes out while resale value on the older version plummets when the new one is announced.
5. Apple's policies hinder it significantly.

Re:Huge success? Really?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

1. I don't see why that matters too much. Besides, you can even install apps from the device. And who's to say that this won't change soon?

2. It is limited, but that doesn't necessarily matter to most people most of the time. A laptop also has its limitations, too -- they're just different limitations.

3. For you, perhaps. I wouldn't want the screen to be any smaller. It's very thin and light, and will only improve in this area.

4. Same goes for most ultra portable devices like phones, tablets, and netbooks. People buy new computers and gadgets all the time even though their current devices work just fine. No one is forcing you to always by the next version, either.

5. The success of the device and the app store suggest otherwise, and the restrictions seems to be getting more relaxed over time.